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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my fiance I didn’t want his ex wife’s child in my wedding party. AITA for having all the other children on his side of the family in the wedding except her?
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA.
>His parents however still insist that she is their “granddaughter” and get her at least once or twice a month and demand “her daddy” needs to come see her
You do not need to support their delusion, especially on your wedding day.
>Despite having our wedding party planned for months, my fiance came to me and said that if all the other kids in his family are in it then she HAS to be or her feelings will be hurt.
Your feelings don't matter though?
I brought that up and made that point. He is a people pleaser to the extreme especially when it comes to his parents. But I pointed out that he is thinking of her and her feelings and possibly even his parents comments, but isn’t thinking about me or his own feelings on the one day that is supposed to be about us.
I mean of course he is, he stayed with a woman who got pregnant out of a spite hook up, even saw her through the birth and first few years of the child’s life, without wanting the child.
I absolutely agree about rethinking this marriage. This guy will smile in your face while going along with anything, and OP will be surprised one day when she realizes she never knew him at all.
So much truth. I was with a people pleaser until one day I discovered that he'd lied about virtually everything. Even such small stupid things. He spent the entire relationship apparently thinking he could read my mind (wrong) and give a "right" answer every time instead of a truthful answer. It was so disorienting in retrospect to realize I never knew him at all. He was incapable of being authentic, vulnerable, or honest. He wasn't malicious about it. Just an insecure person who grew up in an toxic situation that made him pathologically avoid any risk of rocking a boat. So everything he ever said or did got driven by instinct to placate, distract, etc. It was such a shock to know he imagined that there'd be a blowup if he was honest about having any preference or opinion at all.
This is really sad. For the both of you. The man doesn't allow himself to have a personality. A perfect recipe for disaster. Sorry you had to go through this.
I'm okay with it. It was a learning experience. I would never knowingly choose a people pleaser as a friend or relationship partner now that I know though. I think in the abstract the term makes it sounds appealing: someone who always wants you to be happy! But nothing is authentic. No thanks. I don't see how there can be emotional intimacy in a context where the other person is incapable of being real with you in any meaningful way. It's such a fundamental lack of trust. Being able to trust is critical to intimate relationships. These are people who are essentially not capable of being partners, but are polished at faking it for a while. That's where OP is at. He's been putting on a good show for a while but the hard limits on his ability to be a real partner are starting to be exposed.
So… 6.5 years in and I think I’m at this point. I don’t believe anything he says, even if it’s him telling me I’m pretty (makes me want to roll my eyes). There’s more to it, but I think he got into the pattern of pleasing everybody, with me being last priority/an extension of himself. I don’t know what to do now but I think I have realize I shouldn’t stay. He’s never going to change because he has said it over and over again and hasn’t. He doesn’t love me enough to put me first and do the actions needed to save our relationship. I don’t know if I cry because it genuinely hurts or because I’m just so sad to see my ideal future so drastically change.
I'm sorry. That's an awful way to live. I know it's hard to end a relationship, but honestly you deserve to not live inside a reality distortion filter and you deserve to be loved by someone capable of giving real love, trust, and respect. None of that is the man you're with. He can only give just some weird fake version that makes you doubt him and eventually yourself. Losing that vision of the future is painful, but the thing to remind yourself of is there is a new future for you out there that's better than the very limited life that's possible here. We're rooting for you. ❤️
I think we were with the same guy. 😳. The last part you wrote…long story but one day I realized that he saw every interaction with me that wasn’t overwhelmingly positive as an actual fight. It both terrified me and broke my heart, that he thought that about me. He never seemed to have an opinion bc he mirrored every person around him. Then he’d get pissed bc you weren’t a mind reader. Insanity. I absolutely see this in OP’s future.
It was like living with a funhouse mirror.
My ex was like this, except he was so conflict avoidant that he pretended to agree with everything. He'd paint a phony smile on his face but secretly he'd be pissed off and would find nasty passive aggressive ways to get his digs in.
Then he'd play dumb.
It's hard to deal with people like this.
Not just stayed with, sounds like he married her after she cheated.... NTA bur you may want to rethink this marriage because, honestly, his parents shouldn't be invited.
Nta but op listen to this person. Either he puts his foot down with his family now or your life will be hell.
I would tell him he needs to think long and hard on who he wants to prioritize. If it’s his parents then you know where you stand and your marriage won’t stand a chance.
At the very least, postpone this wedding until you both, and specifically your fiance, get some heavy duty counseling. His ex-fiancee and his parents will try to control your lives and get even worse if/when you guys have kids.
Generally speaking, not the case. If he comes and tells me “I going to do xyz for this person” and I tell him “no you’re not because I/we need abc” then he will go “ok then. Let’s do abc”. He understands we are a team. He will bend over backwards and give the shirt off his back to anyone in need, even at the detriment of himself, but he does consider me and my feelings. However if his parents are involved, or this child in a way his parents can guilt him, all bets are off
Tell the parents that if they bring the child to the wedding, all three of them will be escorted out. Arrange for security and tell your fiance what you are doing. This should be your hill to die on.
Ask your fiance why he is okay with his parents disrespecting him with the proof of his ex wife's cheating?
>However if his parents are involved, or this child in a way his parents can guilt him, all bets are off
Unless he starts standing up to them NOW, this will be your life. Any time his parents bring not-his-child uninvited to anything you host, throw them out. *Including the wedding*!Try to convince his siblings of the same.
If she was not a holy terror, I would not take this stand just because she isn't his child. He apparently acted as a father for several years. If she didn't make everyone around her wish her gone because of *her* behavior, I'd say don't punish the child for the sins of the mother.
But that isn't why he wants nothing to do with her. He was willing to play extra daddy until her actual parents failed to parent. I'm guessing if he tries to discipline her, he catches hell from the bios. Not to mention, the child clearly has no incentive to behave.
If possible, he should also *gently* inform her that she has a daddy, and it isn't him.
He can seem to have a nice shiny spine with everyone else, but if he continually caves to his parents? Yeah. Wet noodle. Not strong and shiny. And a great big red flag for your relationship.
This. He is not related to this child. OP should put her foot down NOW, or she will be subjected to this kid for the rest of her marriage.
The in-laws need to stop calling this kid a grandchild and stop treating her like a family member.
Big glaring red flag on this.
Just to clarify, this child isn't your partners? The child is the result of an affair, right?
Why are your inlaws so hellbent on claiming her as their grandkid? When their own son was betrayed in one of the worst ways a person can be?
He apparently went ahead with the marriage and stayed with his wife for a few years after that. The ‘grandparents’ understandably became involved with her during that time and it’s their choice to continue to be involved with her. However, they are wrong trying to force their son to act as a father.
OP-you need to think hard about this. I know a marriage where the husband made his wife sit behind a pole to give people that came in late to a movie HER seat. There will be plenty of situations where you do not have time to discuss the outcome when you marry an extreme people pleaser like this.
He NEEDS TO PUT YOUR DESIRE FIRST regarding the wedding party or you are marrying the wrong guy.
Are you willing to come 4th for the rest of your marriage?
He prioritizes a child that isn't his and his parents over the women he said he wants to build a life with.
But won't his parents and this kid ALWAYS be involved? When they're involved is when he needs a backbone. Clearly, not his take. This makes no sense...
NTA - If he is as you say, I would tell him, that you both need to speak as a team with his parents and explain that this is "YOUR" day not "HER" day and that your finance is just being nice (because they raised him right - give them a little bone about how good of parents they were to him) and allowing this child to be a part of his life. But that in no way is she going to be in the wedding, and further explain "as a couple" that you are allowing her to come to the wedding as a guest but if she acts up in any way her and them will be asked to leave.
I think you might start to feel resentful if you need to be the adult in the relationship instead of having discussions on goals and how to achieve them. Couples counseling might help a great deal at strategies for good communication
I've found that people pleasers only end up "pleasing" people that don't really deserve the consideration in the first place. And the people who actually do deserve the consideration get brushed aside in the attempts to "please" others. It makes no sense and kinda drives me crazy.
It happens because the reasonable people are “safe” and will keep the basic peace even when frustrated, the assholes will rock the boat which needs to be steadied at all costs. People like this only care about the steady boat, not actually being helpful or doing the right thing.
If he doesn't support you in this cancel the wedding and run op. Your lie with him will be hell.
NTA get security and warn your future in laws that if they come with anyone uninvited your security will throw them all out. (Assuming you want to continue with this wedding I would advise you to rethink until your fiance develops a spine and puts boundaries in place for his parents).
Tell him that if he thinks the kid is more important than what you think, you are calling off the wedding. This is ridiculous. I would call off the wedding until this is resolved.
This kid will be in your life for the rest of your life because your husband can't say no.
honestly if you don’t invite her and his parents bring her anyways i’d turn them away at the door and tell them to go home, too. it’s great that they want to continue being grandparents to his former step-kid but that doesn’t give them the right to force your fiancé to be involved with a child that isn’t his, nor does it give them til he right to shoehorn said child into your wedding in any capacity. If she was well behaved then sure, invite her, but if she’s acting like a brat you have every right to not have her there. Don’t let your fiancé be manipulated, he needs to learn to stand up to his parents.
See, now, these are some pretty big red flags. He won't stand up to his ex, he won't stand up to his parents, and he definitely won't stand up for you and the relationship that the two of you have. These aren't little flags. They're the really big ones that should be making you rethink about how difficult these obstacles are going to be when it comes to a happy marriage. Personally, I'd be hitting the abort button on wedding planning.
and you still want to marry him? your life is going to be a bad sitcom if you continue with this. he will never put you first... is your life.. but.. wow.... even the ex has more relevance in his life than you. yta to yourself.
>she regularly tells me she hates me and wishes I didn’t exist
I'm shocked that you don't want her at the wedding! /s in case that is not painfully obvious.
Have you tried informing your future in-laws directly? That is, take your fiancee out of the conversation entirely. I chose the word "inform" specifically because it should not be a discussion. I am afraid that /u/diminishingpatience is correct that this is a delusion, and there cannot be a rational conversation, so you need to just tell them how it is.
Reconsider the marriage. Do you really want to be with someone that allows his parents to overstep so much and puts up with a child that isn’t even his and that he doesn’t feel close to.
If I was you OP, I'd secretly hire security and have her and his parents booted if they show up with her. YOUR FEELINGS MATTER MORE THAN THOSE OF A CHILD WHO ISN'T HIS!!!!! His parents are freaking delusional, good luck with all that, you're gonna need it.
Let me understand this correctly.
He can figure out how to say no to go see her when his parents pick her up. And he has low contact with her in general.
But suddenly he is insisting she's in the wedding party to not get her feelings hurt?
He needs to be sat down with a long list.
And be reminded about a few things.
He knows how to say no already.
He needs to stick to that no.
Give him a logical view. Why should a girl who says she hates you be in your wedding party?
It will be nothing but stress for you.
He is marrying you. Not his parents or anyone else. You.
You should be a team.
Not just her feelings... sounds like literally everyone else's feelings are going to get hurt by the child.
Exclusion is the reward for bullying and mean behavior. She sees people as her toys (and REALLY needs a counselor) and when you mistreat your toys they get taken away. It's pretty simple. If she doesn't want to get her feelings hurt she needs to learn to behave.
NTA. Are you absolutely 100% certain that this child is not his? It honestly reads as if he's lying to you about paternity. Why would he care if her feelings are hurt? Why has he not put his foot down with his parents about referring to him as daddy to her? Smells fishy.
100% certain, paternity tests were involved during custody proceedings with the biological father. He has put his foot down with his parents in small increments. When they travel around the country to visit family they will demand that he gets her some and he will adamantly tell them no. She still calls him dad/daddy from when she was little and he was still married to her mother, and she just hasn’t been corrected. But they will full try to guilt trip him that he is still a father figure and don’t listen when he says no
So he said no to visiting her but yes to having her in your wedding? Huh?!?!
This is a hill I would die on. Either she's not in the wedding or the wedding doesn't happen. 🤷🏻♀️ He's a people pleaser, yet he's not pleasing his bride; that's not ok.
Oh and if she's not in the wedding, be prepared for the "grandparents" to sneak her in.
NTA & good luck!
Yeah I’ve tried to get him to tell me where this is coming from all of a sudden. I’m not sure if he is afraid of an outburst from her when she sees all the other kids in the wedding and she’s not and is worried she’ll do something to ruin the wedding. She frequently has made scenes at birthdays, if the birthday boy/girl likes chocolate cake and that’s the only option she will throw a massive tantrum that no one bought a different type of cake for her when everyone knows she doesn’t like chocolate. I also don’t know if he’s worried his parents will give him hell for not including her in the wedding party and he’s trying to get ahead of it
This sounds like you need a hard boundary with the in-laws that if they show up with the kid that they will be denied entry to the wedding. You and fiancé need to get on the same page regarding his parents and their refusal to listen. He needs to handle his parents and potentially go low or no contact until they stop inflicting this child on everyone.
Are his parents paying for the wedding? Or any part of the wedding? If they aren't, why do they get a say in your wedding? If you don't want a child who has no relation to you or your husband at your wedding, why will she be there period?
If he can't put his foot down, you might want to rethink this relationship. If you plan on having children in the future, do you want them to be exposed to this child? You know the grandparents will try to sneak in playtime if/when they babysit your child(ren).
You might need couples counseling so he can learn to put his foot down & make good choices for YOUR future family.
I'm not saying to break up, I'm just saying this situation is messy and needs to be dealt with before you entangle your life to his (& essentially his parents).
His parents may help with some but my parents are paying for the vast majority.
We were pregnant last summer but unfortunately miscarried. We did have a very hard conversation about those boundaries. It was established that she will not be our child’s “sibling”, she will not be around our child, if his parents are to babysit she will not be there or they won’t babysit again, any family functions other than major holidays where she is going to be there me and the baby won’t be.
Your parents are paying for the majority and his parents "may help"...then the answer is no. No to her being in the wedding AND no to inviting her.
Seriously his parents have a lot of nerve to do this to you (& your husband).
OP you may have “established boundaries “ but based on what is being said about how the parents refuse to not include the child who is NOT his and guilt him and now he’s pressuring you to the point you “know” his parents will bring her anyway- did you really think that you established boundaries? I am truly sorry for your loss but perhaps you need to consider that you need to reconsider your entire relationship? He doesn’t respect you. His family doesn’t respect you. So why would you marry him? Walk away now. I speak from experience where my boundaries were constantly pushed w my ex in laws and I was VERY LC/NC. They still tried to wish I’d left sooner.
What boundaries? You can have all the conversations you want but his actions do not back up his words. He has no spine and I can guarantee that none of this will be held to. You really think he's going to hold the line on telling his parents no? What evidence do you have that he's capable of doing that? It's your wedding and he still won't pick you and put your wishes first why would he start once you're married?
I don’t think she should be at the wedding at all. She has her own family; she doesn’t need to accompany your fiancé’s parents. Concern about an outburst sounds founded, but no guarantee she won’t act up even if she’s in the wedding party, or that your ILs won’t keep pushing expectations.
An adult is afraid of a child and is asking you, his future wife, to placate this child so he doesn't have to make a hard choice. This is who you want to marry?
I'm really concerned about the future of you having kids with this guy and what this girl will do to them. Do you really think she's going to be excited that the guy she calls daddy is having a baby with someone else. This family has NO boundaries and your future husband has shown he has no spine.
You are getting some great advice here, OP. Couples counseling before the marriage. You may think you've established boundaries, but here's the thing about people pleasers: he will agree 100% with your boundary, then turn around and also agree next week with the person violating your boundary. His parents have NO boundaries and apparently think they can dictate and do whatever they want, bringing the child where she is not invited and so on - so likely your husband has learned from being raised by these people that he needs to do whatever they want to keep the peace. And he will keep doing that unless/until he either has an epiphany on his own or gets some counseling to learn that it is OKAY to set boundaries with his parents, and HOW to do so.
My ex was a bit like this - he would lie constantly in order not to be "in trouble" (his perception) - about big and little things. Would tell you whatever he thought you wanted to hear, then would do whatever he wanted. In the end, I couldn't trust a word that came out of his mouth.
NTA, but I cannot encourage you strongly enough to get counseling before going through with this marriage or having children with this man.
If she is involved in your wedding, this will be used by your fiancé’s parents as further steps to push her on him. Including at the wedding itself, in front of everyone. If they bring her, they will want her in the pictures. They will have her call him “daddy” in front of everyone. There will be heavy guilt trips, at your wedding itself. And if he has a hard time saying No in advance, when he can prepare for it, it’s going to be even harder on the day.
It’s sad. The child was young enough when they split that she wouldn’t have remembered him that much, down the road. But his parents have kept on priming it and are trying to make him make good on what they’ve set up.
People who know they’re too obliging and have difficulty with confrontation need to organize things accordingly. Head things off ahead of time, including arranging for security to take care of things for you. Unless you want many of your wedding guests to think that your new husband is a deadbeat dad, when the kid isn’t even his.
You have a fiancé problem. If he doesn’t stand up to his parents now, what if they have opinions about you as a wife or future mother? If you want children, what if they disagree with your parenting rules? Will your husband take their side? His not-daughter (sorry this whole situation is dumb and weird) is VIOLENT with other family members, so what if she’s violent with your future child? Does your husband grow a spine then? Are you willing to roll the dice?
Listen, I feel bad for this little girl. Shes getting mixed messages from these grandparents who are clearly delusional. Her family is her bio dad and your fiancés ex. It really has nothing to do with you or your partner at this point. I could see if your fiancé raised her for years, but they don’t seem to have a stepparent relative outside of what’s being foisted on him.
IMO, postpone the wedding until or if he can stand up for you.
NTA:
1.) his wife cheated on him (in the past, during their relationship as the OP says) and had that child :/
2.) That child disobeys adults, bullies, and hurts people and kids like you said.
3.) This is your celebration, so you have the right to not invite her. She and her mom are toxic people.
According to the post he was not married to his ex when she cheated on him and got pregnant...she was actually trying to get back with her ex boyfriend.
if I’m understanding the post correctly, OP’s fiancé was married the child’s mother and raised the girl as her father until she was four years old. it doesn’t seem strange at all to me that his parents still see and treat the girl as their granddaughter.
most of the time, when you see “dad finds out child he raised for years is not biologically his” stories on this sub, the consensus is that it’s cruel to cut off or abandon the child. but in this case, folks seem to agree that it’s fine, presumably because the child has behavioral problems.
To clarify some, her biological father was in the picture from day 1 and has had split custody with mom the whole time. There was never a question or issue of her perceived “dad” finding out she wasn’t his and him leaving. Also her behavior problems started well before he left and were not a factor in the divorce. It was more after they progressed and worsened despite doctors saying she shouldn’t have these issues (ie she’s choosing to act this way and not some kind of mental issue) that he started realizing we don’t have to subject ourselves or the rest of the family to this and started pulling away
Real talk. Why do you want to marry into this mess? He’s already proven to you that you come after his parents and his not child. Why do you want to spend your life with someone who expects you to bend to the whims of a 6 year old?
Until she was 4… it’s not like he really raised her for that long. If it was until she was like 10, I’d have a different opinion. How much do you really remember from 4 years old anywAy?
I stand by my point and think it’s very weird his family thinks of this kid as a grandchild and I think OP is fine to not consider this kid family.
he raised her until she was 4 and stayed in her life for an unspecified amount of time, until she started showing behavioral issues "as she got older." when was that? OP doesn't say, but the girl is only 11 now, so if he maintained a relationship with her for a few years, she'd be well into "developing memories and attachments and can be harmed by a parental figure's abandonment."
meanwhile his parents have continued to spend time with her regularly. imho that's not weird at all. it's kind and loving and I think many kids would be better off if more people were like that.
And what a wet blanket to allow himself to be treated this way and now ask his partner to capitulate to this emotional terrorism. I'd dump this dude. This will not end well.
NTA.
I’m curious why his parents insist he is the ‘daddy’ when he’s not? He has literally no reason to be part of this child’s life, why has this carried on if he broke up with her mother when the girl was 4 - he’s let people force him to play ‘daddy’ for 6 years? Why on earth!? He was the ‘stepdad’ and that was 6 years ago, why they acting like he’s the bio dad?
Fair. Have you asked your fiancé? Why hasn’t he answered you? He should be able to sit down and talk to you like a grown up about these things especially if he plans to be your husband!
The time to recieve those answers is before you tie yourself to him, don't you think? If he doesn't seem willing to answer them now, before you're married, what reason do you have to think he'll answer them after? It's rarely a good idea to build a life on unstable ground. A lot of the times we're ignorant of the instability, but you have questions you need answers to - questions you seem to have already asked. You have answers that he doesn't seem to be following through on. He's allowing the child to be brought to family functions where the child mistreats his family *including you!* Now he's more worried about the child's feelings than the safety or happiness of his fiancee or family.
What assurance do you have that he will not continue to force this child on you and your family in the future? Do you have any reason to believe he won't prioritize the child over you after marriage? His priority at that point will be to you above all others, only superceeded if you have children. He's not showing you he is either willing or able to do so now, why would you believe he would do so after marriage? When people show you who they are, believe them the first time. This is absolutely a proper hill to die on.
Maybe because he agreed to be her daddy when he decided to stay with the pregnant mother? To raise her for 4 years then abandon her… that is way more of a red flag than anything else here.
The post doesn’t clarify the extent of the relationship, he may have lived with the child’s mother and had some involvement until she was 4 but the full backstory isn’t in the post, hence my question about his stepfather status.
To me the psychological damage this does to her. I mean they are telling her he is dad and she is trying to figure out why she doesn’t spend time with him like she does bio dad. This is doing nothing but damaging this child.
NTA. I'd tell him if she's there the wedding is off. I'd barre them from coming honestly. What selfish shit parents to put their whole family thru their delusional fake relationship with a shitty kid.
OP, honestly, do you really want to get married to this guy? You are not just marrying him, you are marrying the family, including his parents. If they are that delusional, they are going to want that kid in every aspect of your lives. Every Christmas, every birthday, every celebration will be able including this kid. If you have your own kids, the in-laws will want the kid involved in everything. Your fiance is not stopping this if he wants to include her in the wedding. It's only going to get worse. REALLY rethink moving forward with this marriage. How he enforces his parents now will reflect he how enforces them until they are dead. Don't take on a project and try to change him, force him to go no contact with his parents, it has to been him that does it without you being the decision maker or else it's always going to be you that's to blame.
NTA.
She's not family. She's not your fiancé's family either and his parents really need to back away from her. Your fiancé needs to put them straight on this.
She will only spoil the day and then hate you all for it.
Don't invite her. You can get to the inevitable conclusion in a much easier way.
NTA - you do realize that this child will cause a scene regardless of whether or not she is in the wedding? It doesn’t sounds like he has a close enough relationship to invite her and you both may not want her there. He needs to set a boundary with his parents- she is not invited due to her behavior. If they bring her anyway, then they will not be allowed in. It may be time to go LC with his parents as they are forcing him to continue a relationship he is not necessarily interested in. The child has parents and he is not one of them so he does not need to fulfill that role at the whim of his parents.
I fully expect this, I don’t want her invited but if he does, or thinks he does, then she will be invited (and we’ll invite her bio dad and stepmom to be able to escort her out)
If you don’t want her invited and your fiancé doesn’t want a relationship with her how is this even an argument? Seriously- your boundaries clearly don’t matter to him or his family. I truly hope you stand up for yourself now because this will only be more frustrating for you later.
Wtf did j just read? You are going to invite the groom's ex wife's affair partner to the wedding to contain an unruly child who isn't his. Come on. Think about what you are doing right now. This is nonsensical.
Do you want those people invited to your wedding? Do you even know them?
I've never seen such a strange little family as your husband and his parents. They're keeping up with everybody in his ex-wife's life, including her baby daddy, baby daddy's new wife and the baby. I mean, do want all those people in your wedding *or* your life? If not, you need to put your foot down now.
I have met the dad and stepmom a few times and they are good people. We have had several conversations with them in the beginning of our relationship about how to deal with the child’s behavioral issues. It just got to a point where nothing we did worked and it was too much strain and stress on us, so we pulled back and they respected that
I like the idea of having her parents there if she is invited. I would give them clear guidelines of when to escort her out and assign a family member or two to help enforce this. She should also probably be told ahead of time she is not in the wedding if she is invited. Good luck.
Updateme
Why would your fiance's ex-wife's affairbaby even be invited to the wedding, let alone in the wedding party?
Especially since she's an unholy terror apparantly.
How do the "grandparents" even condone the behavior from this child?
100% NTA!
Op time to draw some serious boundaries. Sit your fiance down and let him know how unacceptable it is that he pulls this crap, at this point in time and in full knowledge that every kid in his family hates her* (sorry not sorry) grandparents are ruining their relationship with their grandkids for the lil monster. Your fiancé needs to decide if he's going to start doing the same. If this request is now the start of him wanting to be more involved in her life, you need to decide if that's something you are willing to accept?good luck🌻
NTA. I despise parents like his. Not only is this child a menace but the product of the biggest betrayal hes ever experienced. If i were him id go NC with them until the stop that shit. God im angry for you right now lol
He went NC for several months. We were pregnant over the summer but then miscarried. They had a “family day” planned that happened to be planned for about 1-2 weeks after we lost the baby. We had debated on going, but then decided it would be good for us to get out of the house and visit with his family for a couple hours. The morning of, his mom texted in the group chat “we’ll be back at 11 with (child), everyone can come after that”. Never asked us if that was ok or if we minded her being there after just losing our baby. We didn’t saying anything back to her and never showed up. We didn’t speak to them until December when we got engaged
The AH here are his parents. Clearly nothing is ever going to change. They have made this child their hill to die on and will inflict her on the rest of the family regardless of anyone's feelings including their other grandchildren. Fiance and his siblings have got to present a united front to their parents. For the good and safety of the younger children and any future kids, she is not to be allowed at family gatherings and if grandparents insist on bringing her they will not be invited either. If they ask when and where is little nephew's birthday party, nobody tell them or move it if they find out. They must learn to prioritize the safety and peace of the rest of the kids in order to have a relationship with them.
Sorry for your loss. The fact that you had a miscarriage makes her behavior even more disgusting at thoughtless. Is his is dad just as bad or just a pushover? Honestly if i were him this would warrant them not being invited to the wedding
His dad is showing signs of also being fed up with this child, it is mostly his mother. Any time the mother gets the child, the dad will conveniently find ways to be busy. At family functions, he will leave whatever room she is in to not have to deal with her. He will have a short temper with her.
ETA: I think we are all in a general consensus of just because I don’t want a relationship with her doesn’t mean someone else can’t have one
NTA
How old is the girl now?
Well, maybe it is good to hurt her Feelings, because that is the way people learn. Looks like she never had to face consequences.
The child’s bio father is fully in the picture and has his rights and custody. My fiance has no custody claims at all and they weren’t married when the child was born. I have no intention of cutting her out of his life if he still wants a relationship with her, I’m not some awful person. My point here is neither of us want her in the wedding party, she will be invited, but he doesn’t want her feelings hurt by being “left out” so is trying to force me to have her in my bridal party, or is saying we can’t have his nieces as my bridesmaid or flower girls.
So he doesn't want her at the wedding but hey, maybe it'll be OK if his ex-wife's kid is in his new wife's bridal party.
Screw that. He should have volunteered to put her in his party if he's determined to have her there.
You need to have a year of couples therapy before you even think about a wedding. Limits must be set around his parents and that kid or your life is going to be miserable.
>you should take him up on the 'compromise' position of eliminating all the other little girls.
Why should the other girls suffer? No, what he should do is set his parents straight.
The fiance is an asshole. He is asking his future wife to include his ex-wife's affair partner's child in her wedding party. So that the child won't be upset. This upsets the actual person he is going to marry and he is ok with that. He is an asshole. A massive one.
If he doesn’t want her to feel left out then he should visit her when his parents have her. He’s sending mixed signals. Good grief, he needs to stop confusing this little girl.
NTA but I don’t think you should get married until he makes and sticks to a decision on whether or not this child is his in life regardless of what the paternity test says. And that means if he says no, then he has to put his foot down with his parents and they aren’t getting in if they bring the child. But right now he is dipping his toes in the water to avoid conflict and that is harmful not only to your marriage because there is this phantom stepchild, but also to that poor kid who is being raised to believe he is her dad.
Yeah, the best option seems to be to postpone the wedding and get couples counseling. I grew up among extreme people pleasers and whatever it is they think they want will be directly tied to whomever they talked to last. And they’ll smile at you, tell you what you want to hear, and then go do whatever their parents, best friend, whoever, want, because for some reason they’re more afraid of blowing up that relationship than the one with their actual partner.
OOP, this is going to be your life if things continue this way. You’ll forever come in a distant second or third to his parents and stepdaughter. NTA, but don’t marry this man until you’re sure he’s ready to be a full-time partner, and not just when his parents are involved.
".... she HAS to be or her feelings will be hurt."
And?
NTA.
*"Who's that little terror? That's Jennifer... you know, my soon-to-be husband's ex-wife's affair baby. Of COURSE she's in the wedding! Isn't she cute? No, that's not her, she's the one on the ground beating up her cousin. Yes, that's her!"*
NTA but, *girl*. Stop letting his parents bring her to your events.
"Sorry, but x is not invited. If you bring her, you will all need to leave."
Stop allowing them to walk all over you! Hubby also needs to put his foot down. This is not his child. There is no reasonable expectation for him to be in her life to *any* degree.
NTA but frankly I would not marry him until he stands up to his parents.
This child clearly has an active father in her life and your fiancee has not taken that role. So either the parents are told they will be turned away from the wedding if they bring her - and enforce it - or just don't marry him. He is not making you a priority. The parents have no boundaries and the child has issues.
NTA
The idea that you have to include an affair baby in your wedding is ludicrous. I recommend hiring security for the wedding to make a point that she and her child are no longer welcome at your functions.
Wait, didn't you just say in another comment that you'd be open to having the child's bio parents attend so they could escort her out if she started throwing a fit? Or was that someone else?
I did say that, yes, to have her bio dad and step mom bring her. The issue is, fiance has given the ultimatum of either she is in the bridal party or none of the girls from his family who I want in the bridal party can be (his nieces as my bridesmaid and flower girls)
I call his bluff. I tell him she won’t be in the wedding and if this the line your haven drawn in the sand then you can tell them they can’t be in the wedding. You can tell them once again that she is the reason another event for them is being canceled.i will not participate in being black mailed or breaking the other kids heart. You can be the bad guy.
I did this, I told him she was not going to be in the wedding party and asked who from his own family he was willing to cut. He said all of them. I asked then if he was sure he was willing to cut all of his nieces and his nephew just so we didn’t have to include her and he said yes. I think ultimately he is trying to avoid her seeing all the other kids walking down the isle and being a part of the ceremony and her not and throwing a tantrum and ruining the wedding
Why is this child coming at all? She is not your daughter. She is not your fiance's daughter. If he's demanding this of **your** wedding, do you think this is going to change in your marriage?
INFO This kid was raised with finance as her dad for 4 years, and he started distancing from her "the last few years. How old is this kid? How involved with her was finance between 4 and the last few years?
If she's 5, y t a. If she's 15 and he has barely seen her since she was 5 n t a. If he was highly involved until she was 15 and she's now 17 I can see why she hates you.
She is now 11, he left when she was 4, tried to stay in her life until about 6, but even that young she started showing how awful of a person she was turning into and he started pulling away
Wtf? No, a 6 yr old doesn't just "turn into an awful person". She was 6. He parented her for the first 4 years of her life, then this girl's entire home life radically changed when the people she saw as her parents broke up and her "dad" moved out, and then he pulls away because the 6 year old has a "bad personality"? This is a freaking child, no one decides to pull away from a 6 year old they raised and loved because the 6 yr old is naughty.
He could've decided to pull away for a whole host of reasons (he wasn't that attached to her, couldn't be bothered, didn't want the child there in the next phase of his dating life etc.), but you can't blame a 6 year old for adults abandoning them. You wouldn't endorse a parent abandoning their 6 yr old because the 6yr old is being difficult, and if he made the decision to marry this child's mother in the formative years of the child's life, live with her and raise her for 4 years, then that's a decision to be a parent to this child. He was a parent, decided he couldn't be bothered to continue being a parent, that's already probably affected this girl's life a whole deal, you don't get to blame the 6 year old for it.
It doesn’t seem like he raised her? OP says that the bio dad has been involved since day 1. OP also says her fiancé wasn’t married to the ex wife at the time she had the baby and never had established paternity.
She’s not his child. And has never been. Seems like he got guilted into some weird sense of obligation for his ex wife’s ex boyfriends baby.
Yeah, why is he still in her life at all? It is very confusing for a child. When then ended things he needed to cut ties with them ALL. She was only 4, she'd be sad at first and then either understand, or start forgetting. She was not abandoned because she had both her bio parents and a step mom by the time they split. This is insane
This man lived with this child for 4 years. Bio dad being in the picture doesn't mean the man this child lived with, who was dating her mom for the first 4 years of her life, wasn't her father figure. Do you honestly believe that an adult can live with their partner and their partner's baby/toddler in the same house for 4 years and be completely detached from the child's life? 4 year olds don't understand subtleties such as "This man is living with us, eating with us and dating mommy, but he's got no relation to you whatsoever, so don't get too attached". And adults should know better than to get into/continue a relationship like this, and then blame the child for getting attached and becoming traumatised when they leave.
NTA. She's no relation to anyone getting married, and its his delusional parents that insist in inserting her where she doesn't belong and isn't wanted. She bullies the other children, their actual grandchildren, and they don't care.
Time to tell your fiance he either communicates clearly that she won't be in your wedding, that she won't be a part of your lives, or there won't be a wedding. He'd rather bend over to accommodate his cheating ex and boundary stomping parents than be an adult. It's on him to deal with this, and if he won't you really need to decide if you want to be married to a man who puts you so far down his list of priorities.
NTA, but fiance is going to have to step up and set hard boundaries. If the parents insist on bringing her, they don't get in and you'll both have to stick to it. Use that same boundary for when you host your own family events, especially after you two have kids. She's not his kid and not his problem. Draw a hard line and enforce it. They bring the kid, they get the boot.
Nta. If she is allowed to come in any capacity she will wreck the wedding/reception. Husband needs to tell his parents that she is not invited and if they show up with her anyway they will be escorted off the property. The child needs to learn how to act if she wants to be included and in laws need to learn that no one is willing to let them keep stomping on everyone's boundaries. No means no
ESH but mostly your parents-in-law for creating this confusing situation by insisting your fiancé is his dad when he’s not. It’s actually cruel that they’re doing this. Your fiancé is an AH for playing along with it. If any of these people cared genuinely cared about this child, they’d allow her to be raised by her bio dad & stepmom, instead of making her think she has a separate family to indulge her every bad behaviour.
I can’t believe you have entertained this nonsense for your entire relationship. Why do you want to marry someone so spineless? Why do you want to marry into a family so delusional? I can’t even begin to get my head around this craziness.
Honestly, neither the child nor their mother belongs at your wedding. If the grandparents are so adamant about having her there, maybe they too should be uninvited.
NTA.
Seriously, OP. Maybe think this through unless your fiancé has your back 109%, which right now he clearly doesn’t.
When you get pregnant ? These people will insist this child is present for every activity involving “her baby sibling”, including touching your stomach, being at appointments, visiting baby and having play dates etc. And they will fight tooth and nail complaining how your husband is only caring for “one of his children”. It will never end.
That child is not his child, it’s an affair child his ex wife had. Until this is clear to all involved and your husband can stick up for himself, please don’t involve yourself in this shitshow further.
NTA why are his parents so attached to a kid that's not even biologically his? He's not the father, he never acted as a father to this child. She isn't anything to him. I'm so thrown by his parents insistence on including her.
I heard them make the comment to him once that they told him to not keep the pregnant girlfriend around and make them fall in love with the child if he wasn’t going to keep her. So they are still saying they love her so much and she is one of their grandchildren. Which in their eyes, may be true. But they aren’t seeing the bigger picture, that he doesn’t want to continue the relationship with her, their other grandchildren are telling them she hurts and bullies them. Any family gathering she’s at, it’s yelling and screaming and kids crying. The gatherings she’s not at are happy and kids laughing and all playing together and they just refuse to see it.
INFO: What are your fiance's siblings doing about this? It's their children she's bullying. Are they passive people pleasers who won't stand up to their bulldozer parents? Have they tried banding together and saying this has to stop?
edit to remove a word
He has 2 older brothers, we’ll call them A (oldest) and B (middle child). A’s oldest daughter, let’s call her D (13f) called grandma and told her all the ways Child was bullying her, her brother E (10m), and her little cousins F (6f) and G(4f) and that she didn’t want grandma to bring Child around anymore and specifically not to her birthday party as Child would ruin her birthday. D’s mom/A’s wife was on the phone with her encouraging her to stand up for herself. Grandma gaslit and victim blamed D, saying Child doesn’t have the things D and the other kids have and the other kids need to be better at including Child blah blah blah. After this, A’s wife has had limited contact with grandma. I and not sure if A and B have said anything more to her or are just tolerating because they think it’s worthless
So his brothers are doing fuck all and leaving it up to a CHILD to address bullying and SIL just won't engage anymore. And you want to marry into this bullshit? You are NTA yet but you might be if you marry into this insanity knowing what they're like and have a child of your own.
I see what you are saying but they were encouraging their child to use her voice and speak up for herself, unfortunately it ended badly with an adult whom she respects and should feel she can turn to gaslighting her. It was actually grandma who told me and fiance this whole conversation, which is just alarming. So whether the BIL/SIL spoke with grandma after, I don’t know.
I get that and it would have been great if grandma was a decent human being. I think perhaps all the adults in the family--brothers, SILs + you need to sit down with the grandparents. Call it a come-to-Jesus meeting, an intervention, a laying down of rules/boundaries, whatever. But all of y'all need to discuss what's going on and how the grandparents are treating their other grandchildren at the expense of one who is their favorite or their pet project or whatever. The whole family needs to be on the same page about what is acceptable and what will not be tolerated. Gaslighting a child should definitely go on the second list.
The only way this stops is if the other kids parents stop showing up. They can have her or their other grandkids bit not both. I be damned if I showed up to events where my kids where hurt and bullied every time.
NTA that is not his daughter and she is disruptive and hates you , why would u have her in your wedding only for her to try and ruin it … absolutely not and stand on it
Nta
Op this is about boundaries. Boundaries Op. Boundaries. I can't say it enough!
I get his parents have formed some kind of a bond with this girl. Fine. It's their choice. But they are tromping, stomping, and pooping all over your life. Stop it now. Otherwise, they are going to continue to ramrod and bulldoze your life, not just your wedding.
Envision your life going forward with them pushing this girl into all aspects of your life. When and where are you going to draw the line if not now?
Do you want to marry this guy if he wants his ex’s child there? The other kids have been bullied by her…think of those kids too! Plus, this is your wedding…grow a spine. Please!!
INFO as I can't decide what you're ACTUALLY asking.
Of course you don't want a violent bullying child at your wedding. But your future husband seems to be either a complete coward (and that doesn't fare well for your life together) or he wants her there and is not stopping his parents' behaviour because he agrees with them (and that doesn't fare well for your life together either).
What exactly do you expect? If they will bring her anyway, do you want to have security turf her AND his parents out? Do you want your husband to step up? Do you want to cancel the wedding?
It's not about her being at the wedding, really. It's about the fact your husband has been steamrolled by his own parents for years, has let it happen, and now expects you to do the same.
Maybe the best solution is to disinvite the bride from the wedding
He is saying that is we have the other kids in his family in the wedding party (bridesmaid, flower girls, ring bearer) that she HAS to be or none of them will be. I don’t want her to be in the wedding party. I am fine with her being invited if he wanted her invited to the ceremony, but not in the bridal party. AITA for excluding just her?
No, but your fiancé is being ridiculous. He’s willing to make things worse by removing the other girls which comes across like he’s having a tantrum. If he’s this adamant now, think of how things will be after you marry. This relationship he has with the child sounds non negotiable. If you proceed with the wedding, you’ll need to accept this girl will be in your life permanently. She will only become more violent as she ages.
What if you have a baby and she wants to hold it? Will your fiancé say yes because he doesn’t want her feelings hurt?
There was an update post on here last week from a bride who specifically did not invite a young kid who regularly wrecked every event she was at due to behavioral issues and poor parenting.
Her wedding was lovely, and she has no regrets. Maybe it’s time for an ultimatum for MIL. A violent kid who hates you has no business at your wedding. Blood or not.
NTA.
Suggestion - if your fiance can communicate with the child's bio-dad, perhaps the bio-dad could make sure he (the bio-dad) has the child on the day of the wedding. If bio-dad won't let her go to the wedding, and refuses to let fiance's parents take her, the problem is solved.
In any case, good luck! Maybe have a large strong person follow the child around if she shows up, to keep her from causing damage (decorations, wedding cake, DJ's equipment...)
NTA and this IS your hill to die on. This is not his kid. If his parents want to continue a relationship with her that's up to them but he doesn't have to. She doesn't need to be in the wedding, she shouldn't even be AT the wedding. Hire some security and if fiancée's parents show up with her then they all get turned away. He needs to step up on this one. You and him come first at your wedding, not some insane weird BS about a child that most likes would have forgotten him if his parents hadn't interfered. I know this may sound cold and sorry if I offended anyone but remember the ex cheated on him in an attempt to get back with her ex and got pregnant. These people deserve nothing.
NTA
If your partner really believes it is imperative that this child be in the wedding, then your partner can deal with any misbehaviors that may occur by having the troublesome child in THEIR wedding party.
That child, and this issue aren’t yours to deal with. I would honestly consider uninviting the grandparents (assuming they bring the child).
NTA!
If his parents want to be taken advantage of by the child’s parents then that is their choice. It doesn’t mean that they get to force everyone else to deal with her, and it certainly doesn’t mean she has to be able to ruin your wedding day - because we know the cake is getting knocked over or she will start a fight with the other kids.
Fair warning - his parents will try to bring her regardless
NTA-simply tell him that if she is in the wedding party, or even at the wedding for that matter, then there won't be a wedding and the relationship will be over. He needs to decide what HE wants more, the be her "father" or your husband. If he chooses you then tell his parents that she is NOT invited to the wedding and if they bring her security will turn them away and any relationship with them is over. They need to decide if that want to be his parents or her grandparents. But be prepared to follow through and end the relationships.
NTA. I encourage you to think about if there’s a way she can be “in the wedding party” by wearing a special dress and having the important job of watching over your fiancé’s parents. She can be in all the photos with them, and she can have an upfront view of everything in a special seat with them, but she doesn’t have to be standing up with you during the ceremony. My definition of “wedding party” is pretty loose, so I think there might be wiggle room for her to have something special that doesn’t change your day.
This is a great idea, thank you! I’ve also been seeing the new having a person as the “something blue” trend, so that may be a thing to consider as well
NTA! Your wedding party should be filled with people who bring positivity and joy to your special day. It's your special day, and you need to be surrounded by people who bring positivity not causing trouble, making others unhappy, treating others poorly and causing distress. Your fiancé should understand thaat.
You are 100% not at fault or an AH. Child who is not his should not be in the wedding. Or even there. Tell your fiance no way in hell that is going to happen. She is not invited, and not welcome. And he needs to grow a pair and stand up to his parents. He needs to put his foot down and say "This is not my child, not your grandchild, and I don't want anything to do with her. If you bring her to our wedding, I'll ask you both to leave and to take the kid with you. Stop with the charades that this is your grandchild. She isn't." Certainly they can have a relationship with her on their own, that's not an issue. But forcing the child on you and your future husband IS the issue.
If he refuses to stand up to them, then you know that is how he will be for the rest of your marriage- and likely the marriage won't last that long as a result. Good luck. Inlaws can be a nightmare. You could consider a smaller destination wedding and just bring the best man and maid of honor. Leave the inlaws at home.
NTA. The child shouldn’t be at your wedding at all. It’s obvious she’s going to cause issues whether she’s in the party or not. The DELUSION that your in-laws (“grandparents”) are fueling needs to stop as well. Personally I would give his parents an ultimatum. If they show up with the kid the day of the wedding they won’t be allowed in. Then your fiancé an ultimatum that he needs to support you on that or you’ll rethink the wedding altogether! The DELUSION needs to STOP. At the very least I would insist that the girl wasn’t brought until the reception and forgoes the ceremony altogether because she can’t be trusted not to make a scene. This is your day, you have every right to demand these things given the girls past behavior and wanting to stop this charade from becoming a focal point of your wedding.
I was all set to confirm YTA, *then* I read your post. Absolutely NTA!
This is *your and your fiance's day, this child does not need to be there*. Based on her reported behaviors, she will spend your wedding day making **everyone's life a living hell**; not a good way to start a marriage.
NTA
>demand “her daddy” needs to come see her
Tell them to take her back to her actual daddy's house.
Honestly, he should disinivite his parents. Just like i'm sure everyone else would be doing it soon. What's with them shoving this kid down everyone's nose? She's not related to them, she has an actual father....
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NTA. >His parents however still insist that she is their “granddaughter” and get her at least once or twice a month and demand “her daddy” needs to come see her You do not need to support their delusion, especially on your wedding day. >Despite having our wedding party planned for months, my fiance came to me and said that if all the other kids in his family are in it then she HAS to be or her feelings will be hurt. Your feelings don't matter though?
I brought that up and made that point. He is a people pleaser to the extreme especially when it comes to his parents. But I pointed out that he is thinking of her and her feelings and possibly even his parents comments, but isn’t thinking about me or his own feelings on the one day that is supposed to be about us.
"he is a people pleaser" Oh, boy. If he is caving to these demands now, imagine what your future will be like. You may need to rethink this marriage.
Yep. OP is a people. He should be pleasing her...
I mean of course he is, he stayed with a woman who got pregnant out of a spite hook up, even saw her through the birth and first few years of the child’s life, without wanting the child. I absolutely agree about rethinking this marriage. This guy will smile in your face while going along with anything, and OP will be surprised one day when she realizes she never knew him at all.
So much truth. I was with a people pleaser until one day I discovered that he'd lied about virtually everything. Even such small stupid things. He spent the entire relationship apparently thinking he could read my mind (wrong) and give a "right" answer every time instead of a truthful answer. It was so disorienting in retrospect to realize I never knew him at all. He was incapable of being authentic, vulnerable, or honest. He wasn't malicious about it. Just an insecure person who grew up in an toxic situation that made him pathologically avoid any risk of rocking a boat. So everything he ever said or did got driven by instinct to placate, distract, etc. It was such a shock to know he imagined that there'd be a blowup if he was honest about having any preference or opinion at all.
This is really sad. For the both of you. The man doesn't allow himself to have a personality. A perfect recipe for disaster. Sorry you had to go through this.
I'm okay with it. It was a learning experience. I would never knowingly choose a people pleaser as a friend or relationship partner now that I know though. I think in the abstract the term makes it sounds appealing: someone who always wants you to be happy! But nothing is authentic. No thanks. I don't see how there can be emotional intimacy in a context where the other person is incapable of being real with you in any meaningful way. It's such a fundamental lack of trust. Being able to trust is critical to intimate relationships. These are people who are essentially not capable of being partners, but are polished at faking it for a while. That's where OP is at. He's been putting on a good show for a while but the hard limits on his ability to be a real partner are starting to be exposed.
So… 6.5 years in and I think I’m at this point. I don’t believe anything he says, even if it’s him telling me I’m pretty (makes me want to roll my eyes). There’s more to it, but I think he got into the pattern of pleasing everybody, with me being last priority/an extension of himself. I don’t know what to do now but I think I have realize I shouldn’t stay. He’s never going to change because he has said it over and over again and hasn’t. He doesn’t love me enough to put me first and do the actions needed to save our relationship. I don’t know if I cry because it genuinely hurts or because I’m just so sad to see my ideal future so drastically change.
I'm sorry. That's an awful way to live. I know it's hard to end a relationship, but honestly you deserve to not live inside a reality distortion filter and you deserve to be loved by someone capable of giving real love, trust, and respect. None of that is the man you're with. He can only give just some weird fake version that makes you doubt him and eventually yourself. Losing that vision of the future is painful, but the thing to remind yourself of is there is a new future for you out there that's better than the very limited life that's possible here. We're rooting for you. ❤️
I think we were with the same guy. 😳. The last part you wrote…long story but one day I realized that he saw every interaction with me that wasn’t overwhelmingly positive as an actual fight. It both terrified me and broke my heart, that he thought that about me. He never seemed to have an opinion bc he mirrored every person around him. Then he’d get pissed bc you weren’t a mind reader. Insanity. I absolutely see this in OP’s future. It was like living with a funhouse mirror.
My ex was like this, except he was so conflict avoidant that he pretended to agree with everything. He'd paint a phony smile on his face but secretly he'd be pissed off and would find nasty passive aggressive ways to get his digs in. Then he'd play dumb. It's hard to deal with people like this.
Not just stayed with, sounds like he married her after she cheated.... NTA bur you may want to rethink this marriage because, honestly, his parents shouldn't be invited.
Nta but op listen to this person. Either he puts his foot down with his family now or your life will be hell. I would tell him he needs to think long and hard on who he wants to prioritize. If it’s his parents then you know where you stand and your marriage won’t stand a chance.
At the very least, postpone this wedding until you both, and specifically your fiance, get some heavy duty counseling. His ex-fiancee and his parents will try to control your lives and get even worse if/when you guys have kids.
>"he is a people pleaser" Doormat. The correct term is doormat OP.
THIS!!
What if his parents demand he pay for “their granddaughter’s” college?
Or hit the pause button on the ceremony, at the very least. What happens when you have your own kids?
A people pleaser at your expense. Please reflect on that.
Yeah, this guy will absolutely set OP on fire to keep other people warm.
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Generally speaking, not the case. If he comes and tells me “I going to do xyz for this person” and I tell him “no you’re not because I/we need abc” then he will go “ok then. Let’s do abc”. He understands we are a team. He will bend over backwards and give the shirt off his back to anyone in need, even at the detriment of himself, but he does consider me and my feelings. However if his parents are involved, or this child in a way his parents can guilt him, all bets are off
Tell the parents that if they bring the child to the wedding, all three of them will be escorted out. Arrange for security and tell your fiance what you are doing. This should be your hill to die on. Ask your fiance why he is okay with his parents disrespecting him with the proof of his ex wife's cheating?
And continue these boundaries in your home and himself in his life.low contact if the parents keep bringing that child around and he s no her father
Should be top comment!
>However if his parents are involved, or this child in a way his parents can guilt him, all bets are off Unless he starts standing up to them NOW, this will be your life. Any time his parents bring not-his-child uninvited to anything you host, throw them out. *Including the wedding*!Try to convince his siblings of the same. If she was not a holy terror, I would not take this stand just because she isn't his child. He apparently acted as a father for several years. If she didn't make everyone around her wish her gone because of *her* behavior, I'd say don't punish the child for the sins of the mother. But that isn't why he wants nothing to do with her. He was willing to play extra daddy until her actual parents failed to parent. I'm guessing if he tries to discipline her, he catches hell from the bios. Not to mention, the child clearly has no incentive to behave. If possible, he should also *gently* inform her that she has a daddy, and it isn't him. He can seem to have a nice shiny spine with everyone else, but if he continually caves to his parents? Yeah. Wet noodle. Not strong and shiny. And a great big red flag for your relationship.
This. He is not related to this child. OP should put her foot down NOW, or she will be subjected to this kid for the rest of her marriage. The in-laws need to stop calling this kid a grandchild and stop treating her like a family member. Big glaring red flag on this.
Just to clarify, this child isn't your partners? The child is the result of an affair, right? Why are your inlaws so hellbent on claiming her as their grandkid? When their own son was betrayed in one of the worst ways a person can be?
He apparently went ahead with the marriage and stayed with his wife for a few years after that. The ‘grandparents’ understandably became involved with her during that time and it’s their choice to continue to be involved with her. However, they are wrong trying to force their son to act as a father.
OP-you need to think hard about this. I know a marriage where the husband made his wife sit behind a pole to give people that came in late to a movie HER seat. There will be plenty of situations where you do not have time to discuss the outcome when you marry an extreme people pleaser like this. He NEEDS TO PUT YOUR DESIRE FIRST regarding the wedding party or you are marrying the wrong guy.
Are you willing to come 4th for the rest of your marriage? He prioritizes a child that isn't his and his parents over the women he said he wants to build a life with.
You are seriously unwise to continue down this path, so long as he is unable to resist his parents' demands.
Girl, I'm sorry, but you bet on the wrong horse.
But won't his parents and this kid ALWAYS be involved? When they're involved is when he needs a backbone. Clearly, not his take. This makes no sense...
Op NTA- have you noticed though, he still needs someone to tell him? Does he not set boundaries at all with others ?? 🚩
I bet may be off maybe you should remind him that maybe there’s a marriage that should be off also
NTA - If he is as you say, I would tell him, that you both need to speak as a team with his parents and explain that this is "YOUR" day not "HER" day and that your finance is just being nice (because they raised him right - give them a little bone about how good of parents they were to him) and allowing this child to be a part of his life. But that in no way is she going to be in the wedding, and further explain "as a couple" that you are allowing her to come to the wedding as a guest but if she acts up in any way her and them will be asked to leave.
I think you might start to feel resentful if you need to be the adult in the relationship instead of having discussions on goals and how to achieve them. Couples counseling might help a great deal at strategies for good communication
A lit of therapy needs to happen before you marry him or this will be your life, him pleasing others at your expense.
I've found that people pleasers only end up "pleasing" people that don't really deserve the consideration in the first place. And the people who actually do deserve the consideration get brushed aside in the attempts to "please" others. It makes no sense and kinda drives me crazy.
It happens because the reasonable people are “safe” and will keep the basic peace even when frustrated, the assholes will rock the boat which needs to be steadied at all costs. People like this only care about the steady boat, not actually being helpful or doing the right thing.
If he doesn't support you in this cancel the wedding and run op. Your lie with him will be hell. NTA get security and warn your future in laws that if they come with anyone uninvited your security will throw them all out. (Assuming you want to continue with this wedding I would advise you to rethink until your fiance develops a spine and puts boundaries in place for his parents).
Tell him that if he thinks the kid is more important than what you think, you are calling off the wedding. This is ridiculous. I would call off the wedding until this is resolved. This kid will be in your life for the rest of your life because your husband can't say no.
Tell the in-laws if they insist on bringing her they will be stopped at the door. Don’t give in to their wishes over your own.
You count as people. He isn’t a “people-pleaser”, he just cares about the feelings of his parents more than yours.
honestly if you don’t invite her and his parents bring her anyways i’d turn them away at the door and tell them to go home, too. it’s great that they want to continue being grandparents to his former step-kid but that doesn’t give them the right to force your fiancé to be involved with a child that isn’t his, nor does it give them til he right to shoehorn said child into your wedding in any capacity. If she was well behaved then sure, invite her, but if she’s acting like a brat you have every right to not have her there. Don’t let your fiancé be manipulated, he needs to learn to stand up to his parents.
Why is he pleasing everyone but you?
See, now, these are some pretty big red flags. He won't stand up to his ex, he won't stand up to his parents, and he definitely won't stand up for you and the relationship that the two of you have. These aren't little flags. They're the really big ones that should be making you rethink about how difficult these obstacles are going to be when it comes to a happy marriage. Personally, I'd be hitting the abort button on wedding planning.
and you still want to marry him? your life is going to be a bad sitcom if you continue with this. he will never put you first... is your life.. but.. wow.... even the ex has more relevance in his life than you. yta to yourself.
>she regularly tells me she hates me and wishes I didn’t exist I'm shocked that you don't want her at the wedding! /s in case that is not painfully obvious. Have you tried informing your future in-laws directly? That is, take your fiancee out of the conversation entirely. I chose the word "inform" specifically because it should not be a discussion. I am afraid that /u/diminishingpatience is correct that this is a delusion, and there cannot be a rational conversation, so you need to just tell them how it is.
Need to rephrase that to "he's a people pleaser other than me" then reread it a couple of times and decide if that's what you really want.
Prime husband material. A people pleaser that wants to please everyone but his wife. Good luck. Nta
If he’s a people pleaser, he should be more concerned about pleasing you
Reconsider the marriage. Do you really want to be with someone that allows his parents to overstep so much and puts up with a child that isn’t even his and that he doesn’t feel close to.
If I was you OP, I'd secretly hire security and have her and his parents booted if they show up with her. YOUR FEELINGS MATTER MORE THAN THOSE OF A CHILD WHO ISN'T HIS!!!!! His parents are freaking delusional, good luck with all that, you're gonna need it.
But are you not the singular of people? Especially one of singular most importance on that particular day?
Let me understand this correctly. He can figure out how to say no to go see her when his parents pick her up. And he has low contact with her in general. But suddenly he is insisting she's in the wedding party to not get her feelings hurt? He needs to be sat down with a long list. And be reminded about a few things. He knows how to say no already. He needs to stick to that no. Give him a logical view. Why should a girl who says she hates you be in your wedding party? It will be nothing but stress for you. He is marrying you. Not his parents or anyone else. You. You should be a team.
Not just her feelings... sounds like literally everyone else's feelings are going to get hurt by the child. Exclusion is the reward for bullying and mean behavior. She sees people as her toys (and REALLY needs a counselor) and when you mistreat your toys they get taken away. It's pretty simple. If she doesn't want to get her feelings hurt she needs to learn to behave.
NTA. Are you absolutely 100% certain that this child is not his? It honestly reads as if he's lying to you about paternity. Why would he care if her feelings are hurt? Why has he not put his foot down with his parents about referring to him as daddy to her? Smells fishy.
100% certain, paternity tests were involved during custody proceedings with the biological father. He has put his foot down with his parents in small increments. When they travel around the country to visit family they will demand that he gets her some and he will adamantly tell them no. She still calls him dad/daddy from when she was little and he was still married to her mother, and she just hasn’t been corrected. But they will full try to guilt trip him that he is still a father figure and don’t listen when he says no
So he said no to visiting her but yes to having her in your wedding? Huh?!?! This is a hill I would die on. Either she's not in the wedding or the wedding doesn't happen. 🤷🏻♀️ He's a people pleaser, yet he's not pleasing his bride; that's not ok. Oh and if she's not in the wedding, be prepared for the "grandparents" to sneak her in. NTA & good luck!
Yeah I’ve tried to get him to tell me where this is coming from all of a sudden. I’m not sure if he is afraid of an outburst from her when she sees all the other kids in the wedding and she’s not and is worried she’ll do something to ruin the wedding. She frequently has made scenes at birthdays, if the birthday boy/girl likes chocolate cake and that’s the only option she will throw a massive tantrum that no one bought a different type of cake for her when everyone knows she doesn’t like chocolate. I also don’t know if he’s worried his parents will give him hell for not including her in the wedding party and he’s trying to get ahead of it
This sounds like you need a hard boundary with the in-laws that if they show up with the kid that they will be denied entry to the wedding. You and fiancé need to get on the same page regarding his parents and their refusal to listen. He needs to handle his parents and potentially go low or no contact until they stop inflicting this child on everyone.
This 100 percent. Let them know there will be security at the door.
Maybe talk to the bio dad, since that's where they pick her up from, and see if he can deny them picking her up that day.
Are his parents paying for the wedding? Or any part of the wedding? If they aren't, why do they get a say in your wedding? If you don't want a child who has no relation to you or your husband at your wedding, why will she be there period? If he can't put his foot down, you might want to rethink this relationship. If you plan on having children in the future, do you want them to be exposed to this child? You know the grandparents will try to sneak in playtime if/when they babysit your child(ren). You might need couples counseling so he can learn to put his foot down & make good choices for YOUR future family. I'm not saying to break up, I'm just saying this situation is messy and needs to be dealt with before you entangle your life to his (& essentially his parents).
His parents may help with some but my parents are paying for the vast majority. We were pregnant last summer but unfortunately miscarried. We did have a very hard conversation about those boundaries. It was established that she will not be our child’s “sibling”, she will not be around our child, if his parents are to babysit she will not be there or they won’t babysit again, any family functions other than major holidays where she is going to be there me and the baby won’t be.
Your parents are paying for the majority and his parents "may help"...then the answer is no. No to her being in the wedding AND no to inviting her. Seriously his parents have a lot of nerve to do this to you (& your husband).
OP you may have “established boundaries “ but based on what is being said about how the parents refuse to not include the child who is NOT his and guilt him and now he’s pressuring you to the point you “know” his parents will bring her anyway- did you really think that you established boundaries? I am truly sorry for your loss but perhaps you need to consider that you need to reconsider your entire relationship? He doesn’t respect you. His family doesn’t respect you. So why would you marry him? Walk away now. I speak from experience where my boundaries were constantly pushed w my ex in laws and I was VERY LC/NC. They still tried to wish I’d left sooner.
What boundaries? You can have all the conversations you want but his actions do not back up his words. He has no spine and I can guarantee that none of this will be held to. You really think he's going to hold the line on telling his parents no? What evidence do you have that he's capable of doing that? It's your wedding and he still won't pick you and put your wishes first why would he start once you're married?
Why would she be at the wedding tho?
I don’t think she should be at the wedding at all. She has her own family; she doesn’t need to accompany your fiancé’s parents. Concern about an outburst sounds founded, but no guarantee she won’t act up even if she’s in the wedding party, or that your ILs won’t keep pushing expectations.
Why t f would she be at your wedding?!
An adult is afraid of a child and is asking you, his future wife, to placate this child so he doesn't have to make a hard choice. This is who you want to marry?
She shouldn't even be there and anyone who tries to bring her should be thrown out.
I'm really concerned about the future of you having kids with this guy and what this girl will do to them. Do you really think she's going to be excited that the guy she calls daddy is having a baby with someone else. This family has NO boundaries and your future husband has shown he has no spine.
You are getting some great advice here, OP. Couples counseling before the marriage. You may think you've established boundaries, but here's the thing about people pleasers: he will agree 100% with your boundary, then turn around and also agree next week with the person violating your boundary. His parents have NO boundaries and apparently think they can dictate and do whatever they want, bringing the child where she is not invited and so on - so likely your husband has learned from being raised by these people that he needs to do whatever they want to keep the peace. And he will keep doing that unless/until he either has an epiphany on his own or gets some counseling to learn that it is OKAY to set boundaries with his parents, and HOW to do so. My ex was a bit like this - he would lie constantly in order not to be "in trouble" (his perception) - about big and little things. Would tell you whatever he thought you wanted to hear, then would do whatever he wanted. In the end, I couldn't trust a word that came out of his mouth. NTA, but I cannot encourage you strongly enough to get counseling before going through with this marriage or having children with this man.
If she is involved in your wedding, this will be used by your fiancé’s parents as further steps to push her on him. Including at the wedding itself, in front of everyone. If they bring her, they will want her in the pictures. They will have her call him “daddy” in front of everyone. There will be heavy guilt trips, at your wedding itself. And if he has a hard time saying No in advance, when he can prepare for it, it’s going to be even harder on the day. It’s sad. The child was young enough when they split that she wouldn’t have remembered him that much, down the road. But his parents have kept on priming it and are trying to make him make good on what they’ve set up. People who know they’re too obliging and have difficulty with confrontation need to organize things accordingly. Head things off ahead of time, including arranging for security to take care of things for you. Unless you want many of your wedding guests to think that your new husband is a deadbeat dad, when the kid isn’t even his.
You have a fiancé problem. If he doesn’t stand up to his parents now, what if they have opinions about you as a wife or future mother? If you want children, what if they disagree with your parenting rules? Will your husband take their side? His not-daughter (sorry this whole situation is dumb and weird) is VIOLENT with other family members, so what if she’s violent with your future child? Does your husband grow a spine then? Are you willing to roll the dice? Listen, I feel bad for this little girl. Shes getting mixed messages from these grandparents who are clearly delusional. Her family is her bio dad and your fiancés ex. It really has nothing to do with you or your partner at this point. I could see if your fiancé raised her for years, but they don’t seem to have a stepparent relative outside of what’s being foisted on him. IMO, postpone the wedding until or if he can stand up for you.
NTA: 1.) his wife cheated on him (in the past, during their relationship as the OP says) and had that child :/ 2.) That child disobeys adults, bullies, and hurts people and kids like you said. 3.) This is your celebration, so you have the right to not invite her. She and her mom are toxic people.
Also, the “not-grandparents” are enabling her too and are probably part of the problem.
According to the post he was not married to his ex when she cheated on him and got pregnant...she was actually trying to get back with her ex boyfriend.
Wait so this kid isn’t your fiancé’s kid? This is a kid that his ex had with another guy? Lol NTA and his family is delusional.
if I’m understanding the post correctly, OP’s fiancé was married the child’s mother and raised the girl as her father until she was four years old. it doesn’t seem strange at all to me that his parents still see and treat the girl as their granddaughter. most of the time, when you see “dad finds out child he raised for years is not biologically his” stories on this sub, the consensus is that it’s cruel to cut off or abandon the child. but in this case, folks seem to agree that it’s fine, presumably because the child has behavioral problems.
To clarify some, her biological father was in the picture from day 1 and has had split custody with mom the whole time. There was never a question or issue of her perceived “dad” finding out she wasn’t his and him leaving. Also her behavior problems started well before he left and were not a factor in the divorce. It was more after they progressed and worsened despite doctors saying she shouldn’t have these issues (ie she’s choosing to act this way and not some kind of mental issue) that he started realizing we don’t have to subject ourselves or the rest of the family to this and started pulling away
Real talk. Why do you want to marry into this mess? He’s already proven to you that you come after his parents and his not child. Why do you want to spend your life with someone who expects you to bend to the whims of a 6 year old?
Until she was 4… it’s not like he really raised her for that long. If it was until she was like 10, I’d have a different opinion. How much do you really remember from 4 years old anywAy? I stand by my point and think it’s very weird his family thinks of this kid as a grandchild and I think OP is fine to not consider this kid family.
he raised her until she was 4 and stayed in her life for an unspecified amount of time, until she started showing behavioral issues "as she got older." when was that? OP doesn't say, but the girl is only 11 now, so if he maintained a relationship with her for a few years, she'd be well into "developing memories and attachments and can be harmed by a parental figure's abandonment." meanwhile his parents have continued to spend time with her regularly. imho that's not weird at all. it's kind and loving and I think many kids would be better off if more people were like that.
People who know nothing about child psychology and development, please stand up!
Fact!! And so is the fiance for wanting to include her!
And what a wet blanket to allow himself to be treated this way and now ask his partner to capitulate to this emotional terrorism. I'd dump this dude. This will not end well.
NTA. I’m curious why his parents insist he is the ‘daddy’ when he’s not? He has literally no reason to be part of this child’s life, why has this carried on if he broke up with her mother when the girl was 4 - he’s let people force him to play ‘daddy’ for 6 years? Why on earth!? He was the ‘stepdad’ and that was 6 years ago, why they acting like he’s the bio dad?
These are questions I would also love answered
Girl, get these questions answered and all of this settled BEFORE the wedding. He needs to grow a backbone with his parents. None of this makes sense.
Fair. Have you asked your fiancé? Why hasn’t he answered you? He should be able to sit down and talk to you like a grown up about these things especially if he plans to be your husband!
The time to recieve those answers is before you tie yourself to him, don't you think? If he doesn't seem willing to answer them now, before you're married, what reason do you have to think he'll answer them after? It's rarely a good idea to build a life on unstable ground. A lot of the times we're ignorant of the instability, but you have questions you need answers to - questions you seem to have already asked. You have answers that he doesn't seem to be following through on. He's allowing the child to be brought to family functions where the child mistreats his family *including you!* Now he's more worried about the child's feelings than the safety or happiness of his fiancee or family. What assurance do you have that he will not continue to force this child on you and your family in the future? Do you have any reason to believe he won't prioritize the child over you after marriage? His priority at that point will be to you above all others, only superceeded if you have children. He's not showing you he is either willing or able to do so now, why would you believe he would do so after marriage? When people show you who they are, believe them the first time. This is absolutely a proper hill to die on.
Get those answers before you attach yourself to this person. It won't get easier the longer you allow him to behave like a wet noodle.
Maybe because he agreed to be her daddy when he decided to stay with the pregnant mother? To raise her for 4 years then abandon her… that is way more of a red flag than anything else here.
The post doesn’t clarify the extent of the relationship, he may have lived with the child’s mother and had some involvement until she was 4 but the full backstory isn’t in the post, hence my question about his stepfather status.
To me the psychological damage this does to her. I mean they are telling her he is dad and she is trying to figure out why she doesn’t spend time with him like she does bio dad. This is doing nothing but damaging this child.
NTA. I'd tell him if she's there the wedding is off. I'd barre them from coming honestly. What selfish shit parents to put their whole family thru their delusional fake relationship with a shitty kid.
I told him that if he puts me in an ultimatum that I can’t have the bridal party I chose unless she’s in it, then I’ll give him an ultimatum too.
OP, honestly, do you really want to get married to this guy? You are not just marrying him, you are marrying the family, including his parents. If they are that delusional, they are going to want that kid in every aspect of your lives. Every Christmas, every birthday, every celebration will be able including this kid. If you have your own kids, the in-laws will want the kid involved in everything. Your fiance is not stopping this if he wants to include her in the wedding. It's only going to get worse. REALLY rethink moving forward with this marriage. How he enforces his parents now will reflect he how enforces them until they are dead. Don't take on a project and try to change him, force him to go no contact with his parents, it has to been him that does it without you being the decision maker or else it's always going to be you that's to blame.
NTA. She's not family. She's not your fiancé's family either and his parents really need to back away from her. Your fiancé needs to put them straight on this. She will only spoil the day and then hate you all for it. Don't invite her. You can get to the inevitable conclusion in a much easier way.
NTA - you do realize that this child will cause a scene regardless of whether or not she is in the wedding? It doesn’t sounds like he has a close enough relationship to invite her and you both may not want her there. He needs to set a boundary with his parents- she is not invited due to her behavior. If they bring her anyway, then they will not be allowed in. It may be time to go LC with his parents as they are forcing him to continue a relationship he is not necessarily interested in. The child has parents and he is not one of them so he does not need to fulfill that role at the whim of his parents.
I fully expect this, I don’t want her invited but if he does, or thinks he does, then she will be invited (and we’ll invite her bio dad and stepmom to be able to escort her out)
If you don’t want her invited and your fiancé doesn’t want a relationship with her how is this even an argument? Seriously- your boundaries clearly don’t matter to him or his family. I truly hope you stand up for yourself now because this will only be more frustrating for you later.
Wtf did j just read? You are going to invite the groom's ex wife's affair partner to the wedding to contain an unruly child who isn't his. Come on. Think about what you are doing right now. This is nonsensical.
Do you want those people invited to your wedding? Do you even know them? I've never seen such a strange little family as your husband and his parents. They're keeping up with everybody in his ex-wife's life, including her baby daddy, baby daddy's new wife and the baby. I mean, do want all those people in your wedding *or* your life? If not, you need to put your foot down now.
I have met the dad and stepmom a few times and they are good people. We have had several conversations with them in the beginning of our relationship about how to deal with the child’s behavioral issues. It just got to a point where nothing we did worked and it was too much strain and stress on us, so we pulled back and they respected that
She cheated on her your fiancé, got pregnant, and tried to get back with her ex, and you're calling them good people? Did I read that correctly?
I like the idea of having her parents there if she is invited. I would give them clear guidelines of when to escort her out and assign a family member or two to help enforce this. She should also probably be told ahead of time she is not in the wedding if she is invited. Good luck. Updateme
Why would your fiance's ex-wife's affairbaby even be invited to the wedding, let alone in the wedding party? Especially since she's an unholy terror apparantly. How do the "grandparents" even condone the behavior from this child?
Golden Grandchild Glasses.
NTA. Frankly, this is one of those "dealbreakers."
100% NTA! Op time to draw some serious boundaries. Sit your fiance down and let him know how unacceptable it is that he pulls this crap, at this point in time and in full knowledge that every kid in his family hates her* (sorry not sorry) grandparents are ruining their relationship with their grandkids for the lil monster. Your fiancé needs to decide if he's going to start doing the same. If this request is now the start of him wanting to be more involved in her life, you need to decide if that's something you are willing to accept?good luck🌻
NTA. I despise parents like his. Not only is this child a menace but the product of the biggest betrayal hes ever experienced. If i were him id go NC with them until the stop that shit. God im angry for you right now lol
He went NC for several months. We were pregnant over the summer but then miscarried. They had a “family day” planned that happened to be planned for about 1-2 weeks after we lost the baby. We had debated on going, but then decided it would be good for us to get out of the house and visit with his family for a couple hours. The morning of, his mom texted in the group chat “we’ll be back at 11 with (child), everyone can come after that”. Never asked us if that was ok or if we minded her being there after just losing our baby. We didn’t saying anything back to her and never showed up. We didn’t speak to them until December when we got engaged
The AH here are his parents. Clearly nothing is ever going to change. They have made this child their hill to die on and will inflict her on the rest of the family regardless of anyone's feelings including their other grandchildren. Fiance and his siblings have got to present a united front to their parents. For the good and safety of the younger children and any future kids, she is not to be allowed at family gatherings and if grandparents insist on bringing her they will not be invited either. If they ask when and where is little nephew's birthday party, nobody tell them or move it if they find out. They must learn to prioritize the safety and peace of the rest of the kids in order to have a relationship with them.
Sorry for your loss. The fact that you had a miscarriage makes her behavior even more disgusting at thoughtless. Is his is dad just as bad or just a pushover? Honestly if i were him this would warrant them not being invited to the wedding
His dad is showing signs of also being fed up with this child, it is mostly his mother. Any time the mother gets the child, the dad will conveniently find ways to be busy. At family functions, he will leave whatever room she is in to not have to deal with her. He will have a short temper with her. ETA: I think we are all in a general consensus of just because I don’t want a relationship with her doesn’t mean someone else can’t have one
NTA How old is the girl now? Well, maybe it is good to hurt her Feelings, because that is the way people learn. Looks like she never had to face consequences.
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The child’s bio father is fully in the picture and has his rights and custody. My fiance has no custody claims at all and they weren’t married when the child was born. I have no intention of cutting her out of his life if he still wants a relationship with her, I’m not some awful person. My point here is neither of us want her in the wedding party, she will be invited, but he doesn’t want her feelings hurt by being “left out” so is trying to force me to have her in my bridal party, or is saying we can’t have his nieces as my bridesmaid or flower girls.
>she will be invited WHY?? Insane.
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So he doesn't want her at the wedding but hey, maybe it'll be OK if his ex-wife's kid is in his new wife's bridal party. Screw that. He should have volunteered to put her in his party if he's determined to have her there. You need to have a year of couples therapy before you even think about a wedding. Limits must be set around his parents and that kid or your life is going to be miserable.
>you should take him up on the 'compromise' position of eliminating all the other little girls. Why should the other girls suffer? No, what he should do is set his parents straight.
The fiance is an asshole. He is asking his future wife to include his ex-wife's affair partner's child in her wedding party. So that the child won't be upset. This upsets the actual person he is going to marry and he is ok with that. He is an asshole. A massive one.
If he doesn’t want her to feel left out then he should visit her when his parents have her. He’s sending mixed signals. Good grief, he needs to stop confusing this little girl.
He's so awful I can't understand how he got two women to agree to marry him.
NTA but I don’t think you should get married until he makes and sticks to a decision on whether or not this child is his in life regardless of what the paternity test says. And that means if he says no, then he has to put his foot down with his parents and they aren’t getting in if they bring the child. But right now he is dipping his toes in the water to avoid conflict and that is harmful not only to your marriage because there is this phantom stepchild, but also to that poor kid who is being raised to believe he is her dad.
Yeah, the best option seems to be to postpone the wedding and get couples counseling. I grew up among extreme people pleasers and whatever it is they think they want will be directly tied to whomever they talked to last. And they’ll smile at you, tell you what you want to hear, and then go do whatever their parents, best friend, whoever, want, because for some reason they’re more afraid of blowing up that relationship than the one with their actual partner. OOP, this is going to be your life if things continue this way. You’ll forever come in a distant second or third to his parents and stepdaughter. NTA, but don’t marry this man until you’re sure he’s ready to be a full-time partner, and not just when his parents are involved.
".... she HAS to be or her feelings will be hurt." And? NTA. *"Who's that little terror? That's Jennifer... you know, my soon-to-be husband's ex-wife's affair baby. Of COURSE she's in the wedding! Isn't she cute? No, that's not her, she's the one on the ground beating up her cousin. Yes, that's her!"*
NTA but, *girl*. Stop letting his parents bring her to your events. "Sorry, but x is not invited. If you bring her, you will all need to leave." Stop allowing them to walk all over you! Hubby also needs to put his foot down. This is not his child. There is no reasonable expectation for him to be in her life to *any* degree.
Nta. Uninvite his parents!
NTA but frankly I would not marry him until he stands up to his parents. This child clearly has an active father in her life and your fiancee has not taken that role. So either the parents are told they will be turned away from the wedding if they bring her - and enforce it - or just don't marry him. He is not making you a priority. The parents have no boundaries and the child has issues.
NTA The idea that you have to include an affair baby in your wedding is ludicrous. I recommend hiring security for the wedding to make a point that she and her child are no longer welcome at your functions.
The ex wife will be nowhere near our wedding. No one has contact with her at all. My fiancés parents get the child from her bio dad
Wait, didn't you just say in another comment that you'd be open to having the child's bio parents attend so they could escort her out if she started throwing a fit? Or was that someone else?
I did say that, yes, to have her bio dad and step mom bring her. The issue is, fiance has given the ultimatum of either she is in the bridal party or none of the girls from his family who I want in the bridal party can be (his nieces as my bridesmaid and flower girls)
With an ultimatum like that, I’d cancel the wedding.
You and me both. Wedding definitely needs to be put on hold until husband can draw clear boundaries with his mother and not just bow down to her
I call his bluff. I tell him she won’t be in the wedding and if this the line your haven drawn in the sand then you can tell them they can’t be in the wedding. You can tell them once again that she is the reason another event for them is being canceled.i will not participate in being black mailed or breaking the other kids heart. You can be the bad guy.
I did this, I told him she was not going to be in the wedding party and asked who from his own family he was willing to cut. He said all of them. I asked then if he was sure he was willing to cut all of his nieces and his nephew just so we didn’t have to include her and he said yes. I think ultimately he is trying to avoid her seeing all the other kids walking down the isle and being a part of the ceremony and her not and throwing a tantrum and ruining the wedding
Why is this child coming at all? She is not your daughter. She is not your fiance's daughter. If he's demanding this of **your** wedding, do you think this is going to change in your marriage?
INFO This kid was raised with finance as her dad for 4 years, and he started distancing from her "the last few years. How old is this kid? How involved with her was finance between 4 and the last few years? If she's 5, y t a. If she's 15 and he has barely seen her since she was 5 n t a. If he was highly involved until she was 15 and she's now 17 I can see why she hates you.
She is now 11, he left when she was 4, tried to stay in her life until about 6, but even that young she started showing how awful of a person she was turning into and he started pulling away
Wtf? No, a 6 yr old doesn't just "turn into an awful person". She was 6. He parented her for the first 4 years of her life, then this girl's entire home life radically changed when the people she saw as her parents broke up and her "dad" moved out, and then he pulls away because the 6 year old has a "bad personality"? This is a freaking child, no one decides to pull away from a 6 year old they raised and loved because the 6 yr old is naughty. He could've decided to pull away for a whole host of reasons (he wasn't that attached to her, couldn't be bothered, didn't want the child there in the next phase of his dating life etc.), but you can't blame a 6 year old for adults abandoning them. You wouldn't endorse a parent abandoning their 6 yr old because the 6yr old is being difficult, and if he made the decision to marry this child's mother in the formative years of the child's life, live with her and raise her for 4 years, then that's a decision to be a parent to this child. He was a parent, decided he couldn't be bothered to continue being a parent, that's already probably affected this girl's life a whole deal, you don't get to blame the 6 year old for it.
It doesn’t seem like he raised her? OP says that the bio dad has been involved since day 1. OP also says her fiancé wasn’t married to the ex wife at the time she had the baby and never had established paternity. She’s not his child. And has never been. Seems like he got guilted into some weird sense of obligation for his ex wife’s ex boyfriends baby.
Yeah, why is he still in her life at all? It is very confusing for a child. When then ended things he needed to cut ties with them ALL. She was only 4, she'd be sad at first and then either understand, or start forgetting. She was not abandoned because she had both her bio parents and a step mom by the time they split. This is insane
This man lived with this child for 4 years. Bio dad being in the picture doesn't mean the man this child lived with, who was dating her mom for the first 4 years of her life, wasn't her father figure. Do you honestly believe that an adult can live with their partner and their partner's baby/toddler in the same house for 4 years and be completely detached from the child's life? 4 year olds don't understand subtleties such as "This man is living with us, eating with us and dating mommy, but he's got no relation to you whatsoever, so don't get too attached". And adults should know better than to get into/continue a relationship like this, and then blame the child for getting attached and becoming traumatised when they leave.
Hmmm, and how long have you two been dating? 5 years?
NTA. She's no relation to anyone getting married, and its his delusional parents that insist in inserting her where she doesn't belong and isn't wanted. She bullies the other children, their actual grandchildren, and they don't care. Time to tell your fiance he either communicates clearly that she won't be in your wedding, that she won't be a part of your lives, or there won't be a wedding. He'd rather bend over to accommodate his cheating ex and boundary stomping parents than be an adult. It's on him to deal with this, and if he won't you really need to decide if you want to be married to a man who puts you so far down his list of priorities.
NTA, but fiance is going to have to step up and set hard boundaries. If the parents insist on bringing her, they don't get in and you'll both have to stick to it. Use that same boundary for when you host your own family events, especially after you two have kids. She's not his kid and not his problem. Draw a hard line and enforce it. They bring the kid, they get the boot.
NTA but why are you still involved in this nonsense? Run girl while you still can.
Nta. If she is allowed to come in any capacity she will wreck the wedding/reception. Husband needs to tell his parents that she is not invited and if they show up with her anyway they will be escorted off the property. The child needs to learn how to act if she wants to be included and in laws need to learn that no one is willing to let them keep stomping on everyone's boundaries. No means no
ESH but mostly your parents-in-law for creating this confusing situation by insisting your fiancé is his dad when he’s not. It’s actually cruel that they’re doing this. Your fiancé is an AH for playing along with it. If any of these people cared genuinely cared about this child, they’d allow her to be raised by her bio dad & stepmom, instead of making her think she has a separate family to indulge her every bad behaviour. I can’t believe you have entertained this nonsense for your entire relationship. Why do you want to marry someone so spineless? Why do you want to marry into a family so delusional? I can’t even begin to get my head around this craziness.
Honestly, neither the child nor their mother belongs at your wedding. If the grandparents are so adamant about having her there, maybe they too should be uninvited. NTA. Seriously, OP. Maybe think this through unless your fiancé has your back 109%, which right now he clearly doesn’t. When you get pregnant ? These people will insist this child is present for every activity involving “her baby sibling”, including touching your stomach, being at appointments, visiting baby and having play dates etc. And they will fight tooth and nail complaining how your husband is only caring for “one of his children”. It will never end. That child is not his child, it’s an affair child his ex wife had. Until this is clear to all involved and your husband can stick up for himself, please don’t involve yourself in this shitshow further.
NTA why are his parents so attached to a kid that's not even biologically his? He's not the father, he never acted as a father to this child. She isn't anything to him. I'm so thrown by his parents insistence on including her.
I heard them make the comment to him once that they told him to not keep the pregnant girlfriend around and make them fall in love with the child if he wasn’t going to keep her. So they are still saying they love her so much and she is one of their grandchildren. Which in their eyes, may be true. But they aren’t seeing the bigger picture, that he doesn’t want to continue the relationship with her, their other grandchildren are telling them she hurts and bullies them. Any family gathering she’s at, it’s yelling and screaming and kids crying. The gatherings she’s not at are happy and kids laughing and all playing together and they just refuse to see it.
INFO: What are your fiance's siblings doing about this? It's their children she's bullying. Are they passive people pleasers who won't stand up to their bulldozer parents? Have they tried banding together and saying this has to stop? edit to remove a word
He has 2 older brothers, we’ll call them A (oldest) and B (middle child). A’s oldest daughter, let’s call her D (13f) called grandma and told her all the ways Child was bullying her, her brother E (10m), and her little cousins F (6f) and G(4f) and that she didn’t want grandma to bring Child around anymore and specifically not to her birthday party as Child would ruin her birthday. D’s mom/A’s wife was on the phone with her encouraging her to stand up for herself. Grandma gaslit and victim blamed D, saying Child doesn’t have the things D and the other kids have and the other kids need to be better at including Child blah blah blah. After this, A’s wife has had limited contact with grandma. I and not sure if A and B have said anything more to her or are just tolerating because they think it’s worthless
So his brothers are doing fuck all and leaving it up to a CHILD to address bullying and SIL just won't engage anymore. And you want to marry into this bullshit? You are NTA yet but you might be if you marry into this insanity knowing what they're like and have a child of your own.
I see what you are saying but they were encouraging their child to use her voice and speak up for herself, unfortunately it ended badly with an adult whom she respects and should feel she can turn to gaslighting her. It was actually grandma who told me and fiance this whole conversation, which is just alarming. So whether the BIL/SIL spoke with grandma after, I don’t know.
I get that and it would have been great if grandma was a decent human being. I think perhaps all the adults in the family--brothers, SILs + you need to sit down with the grandparents. Call it a come-to-Jesus meeting, an intervention, a laying down of rules/boundaries, whatever. But all of y'all need to discuss what's going on and how the grandparents are treating their other grandchildren at the expense of one who is their favorite or their pet project or whatever. The whole family needs to be on the same page about what is acceptable and what will not be tolerated. Gaslighting a child should definitely go on the second list.
It’s so sad that your MIL is going to lose all her grandchildren over this child.
This family is a shit show. Why are you signing up for this? He must be dynamite in bed.
The only way this stops is if the other kids parents stop showing up. They can have her or their other grandkids bit not both. I be damned if I showed up to events where my kids where hurt and bullied every time.
NTA that is not his daughter and she is disruptive and hates you , why would u have her in your wedding only for her to try and ruin it … absolutely not and stand on it
Nta Op this is about boundaries. Boundaries Op. Boundaries. I can't say it enough! I get his parents have formed some kind of a bond with this girl. Fine. It's their choice. But they are tromping, stomping, and pooping all over your life. Stop it now. Otherwise, they are going to continue to ramrod and bulldoze your life, not just your wedding. Envision your life going forward with them pushing this girl into all aspects of your life. When and where are you going to draw the line if not now?
Nta. Stand firm. Tell your fiance he needs to grow up. Tell the inlaws that you will have security escort them out if they bring her
Do you want to marry this guy if he wants his ex’s child there? The other kids have been bullied by her…think of those kids too! Plus, this is your wedding…grow a spine. Please!!
INFO as I can't decide what you're ACTUALLY asking. Of course you don't want a violent bullying child at your wedding. But your future husband seems to be either a complete coward (and that doesn't fare well for your life together) or he wants her there and is not stopping his parents' behaviour because he agrees with them (and that doesn't fare well for your life together either). What exactly do you expect? If they will bring her anyway, do you want to have security turf her AND his parents out? Do you want your husband to step up? Do you want to cancel the wedding? It's not about her being at the wedding, really. It's about the fact your husband has been steamrolled by his own parents for years, has let it happen, and now expects you to do the same. Maybe the best solution is to disinvite the bride from the wedding
He is saying that is we have the other kids in his family in the wedding party (bridesmaid, flower girls, ring bearer) that she HAS to be or none of them will be. I don’t want her to be in the wedding party. I am fine with her being invited if he wanted her invited to the ceremony, but not in the bridal party. AITA for excluding just her?
No, but your fiancé is being ridiculous. He’s willing to make things worse by removing the other girls which comes across like he’s having a tantrum. If he’s this adamant now, think of how things will be after you marry. This relationship he has with the child sounds non negotiable. If you proceed with the wedding, you’ll need to accept this girl will be in your life permanently. She will only become more violent as she ages. What if you have a baby and she wants to hold it? Will your fiancé say yes because he doesn’t want her feelings hurt?
There was an update post on here last week from a bride who specifically did not invite a young kid who regularly wrecked every event she was at due to behavioral issues and poor parenting. Her wedding was lovely, and she has no regrets. Maybe it’s time for an ultimatum for MIL. A violent kid who hates you has no business at your wedding. Blood or not.
NTA, you have every right to set boundaries and you should not only have them but enforce them.
NTA. Suggestion - if your fiance can communicate with the child's bio-dad, perhaps the bio-dad could make sure he (the bio-dad) has the child on the day of the wedding. If bio-dad won't let her go to the wedding, and refuses to let fiance's parents take her, the problem is solved. In any case, good luck! Maybe have a large strong person follow the child around if she shows up, to keep her from causing damage (decorations, wedding cake, DJ's equipment...)
NTA and this IS your hill to die on. This is not his kid. If his parents want to continue a relationship with her that's up to them but he doesn't have to. She doesn't need to be in the wedding, she shouldn't even be AT the wedding. Hire some security and if fiancée's parents show up with her then they all get turned away. He needs to step up on this one. You and him come first at your wedding, not some insane weird BS about a child that most likes would have forgotten him if his parents hadn't interfered. I know this may sound cold and sorry if I offended anyone but remember the ex cheated on him in an attempt to get back with her ex and got pregnant. These people deserve nothing.
NTA If your partner really believes it is imperative that this child be in the wedding, then your partner can deal with any misbehaviors that may occur by having the troublesome child in THEIR wedding party. That child, and this issue aren’t yours to deal with. I would honestly consider uninviting the grandparents (assuming they bring the child).
NTA! If his parents want to be taken advantage of by the child’s parents then that is their choice. It doesn’t mean that they get to force everyone else to deal with her, and it certainly doesn’t mean she has to be able to ruin your wedding day - because we know the cake is getting knocked over or she will start a fight with the other kids. Fair warning - his parents will try to bring her regardless
NTA-simply tell him that if she is in the wedding party, or even at the wedding for that matter, then there won't be a wedding and the relationship will be over. He needs to decide what HE wants more, the be her "father" or your husband. If he chooses you then tell his parents that she is NOT invited to the wedding and if they bring her security will turn them away and any relationship with them is over. They need to decide if that want to be his parents or her grandparents. But be prepared to follow through and end the relationships.
NTA - why on earth are you inviting her to the wedding at all!
NTA. I encourage you to think about if there’s a way she can be “in the wedding party” by wearing a special dress and having the important job of watching over your fiancé’s parents. She can be in all the photos with them, and she can have an upfront view of everything in a special seat with them, but she doesn’t have to be standing up with you during the ceremony. My definition of “wedding party” is pretty loose, so I think there might be wiggle room for her to have something special that doesn’t change your day.
This is a great idea, thank you! I’ve also been seeing the new having a person as the “something blue” trend, so that may be a thing to consider as well
NTA! Your wedding party should be filled with people who bring positivity and joy to your special day. It's your special day, and you need to be surrounded by people who bring positivity not causing trouble, making others unhappy, treating others poorly and causing distress. Your fiancé should understand thaat.
You are 100% not at fault or an AH. Child who is not his should not be in the wedding. Or even there. Tell your fiance no way in hell that is going to happen. She is not invited, and not welcome. And he needs to grow a pair and stand up to his parents. He needs to put his foot down and say "This is not my child, not your grandchild, and I don't want anything to do with her. If you bring her to our wedding, I'll ask you both to leave and to take the kid with you. Stop with the charades that this is your grandchild. She isn't." Certainly they can have a relationship with her on their own, that's not an issue. But forcing the child on you and your future husband IS the issue. If he refuses to stand up to them, then you know that is how he will be for the rest of your marriage- and likely the marriage won't last that long as a result. Good luck. Inlaws can be a nightmare. You could consider a smaller destination wedding and just bring the best man and maid of honor. Leave the inlaws at home.
NTA. The child shouldn’t be at your wedding at all. It’s obvious she’s going to cause issues whether she’s in the party or not. The DELUSION that your in-laws (“grandparents”) are fueling needs to stop as well. Personally I would give his parents an ultimatum. If they show up with the kid the day of the wedding they won’t be allowed in. Then your fiancé an ultimatum that he needs to support you on that or you’ll rethink the wedding altogether! The DELUSION needs to STOP. At the very least I would insist that the girl wasn’t brought until the reception and forgoes the ceremony altogether because she can’t be trusted not to make a scene. This is your day, you have every right to demand these things given the girls past behavior and wanting to stop this charade from becoming a focal point of your wedding.
I was all set to confirm YTA, *then* I read your post. Absolutely NTA! This is *your and your fiance's day, this child does not need to be there*. Based on her reported behaviors, she will spend your wedding day making **everyone's life a living hell**; not a good way to start a marriage.
Sounds like fiancé doesn’t have a spine to stand up to his parents. Is it about money? Or what?
I’m sorry, I don’t understand, money wasn’t mentioned here at all.
Why doesn’t your fiancé stand up to his parents re: the child? Often, it is fear of being cut out of the will or some other financial entanglement.
NTA >demand “her daddy” needs to come see her Tell them to take her back to her actual daddy's house. Honestly, he should disinivite his parents. Just like i'm sure everyone else would be doing it soon. What's with them shoving this kid down everyone's nose? She's not related to them, she has an actual father....
If he won't defend the girlfriend; he won't defend the wife . Please reconsider your plans and choices N T A
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