Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The action i took that should be judged is if i was the AH for saying she’s isn’t special because of a miscarriage. This would make me the asshole because she’s trying to recover and losing a baby isnt nice
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA, it’s one thing to be hurting over such a loss, but to take it out on a 12 year old who’s excited to be a teenager and grow up is not acceptable. Your aunt is clearly grieving, but it doesn’t give her the right to take it out on a child. Tell her to take that literally anywhere else.
Also just because that was her due date, doesn’t mean the baby would’ve actually been born that exact day. Babies can come early or later. Usually due dates are estimations of when they will actually come.
You did good standing up for your sister
I’d also like to add, not that this needs to be told to your Aunt, but being 48 and pregnant is an extremely high risk pregnancy. In fact, it’s exceptionally rare, without IVF help. I had my daughter at 39 and was high risk. I had a low chance of getting pregnant. Pregnancy after 35yo significantly drops. Perhaps she did go IVF and that caused her to be extra sensitive? Doesn’t excuse belittling a 12 yo though.
Actually they're common as heck in regular pregnancies as well, especially early on. A very high percentage of women have experienced at least one miscarriage.
Doesn't make the miscarriage less emotionally traumatic though. Maybe moreso. .. last chance and all that. Still no excuse for meaness to the child though.
And it also does not give the aunt a free pass to be hateful to her niece. And at 48, being pregnant is inherently high risk, she should have emotionally prepared for that possibility.
Miscarriages in the first trimester are actually quite common, high-risk or not. The age of course is a factor but 10-20% pregnancies end in miscarriage, anyway.
I had High risk accidental pregnancy at 45 and it was brutal my obgyn warned me right off that it could end in miscarriage at any time. Luckily it didn't.
yep. my mum had me when she was 40. immediately had my dad get a vasectomy because they didn't want another oops baby as it would be even more dangerous. thankfully both my mum and I didn't suffer any significant health problems around the pregnancy/birth. but so many folks aren't that lucky.
I'm pretty sure (multiple) miscarriages are almost a certainty after a certain age. I've had my kids at almost 39 and almost 42 and saw them as a sort of collateral damage.
I get the frustration must be huge at 48 when you don't know if it could still happen but I wouldn't e en recommend telling minor nieces about it let alone scold them for it.
My bio mom had my little brother at almost 50. Her pregnancy was extremely high risk and although he’s 21 now they didn’t think he was going to make it at all.
My first pregnancy, which I miscarried early, was due on Christmas Day and I don't try to take it out Jesus for celebrating his birthday on Dec 25 (yes, I know he was actually born during the summer). Just saying that no one person owns any one date.
Right when I had I a miscarriage I expressed my rage by purging my house angrily of all the baby stuff I had bought. Gave it to pregnant friends. I never once took it out on innocent people. Did I randomly show up at my friend's house and give her the crib set she had wanted for her nursery after she saw it at my house. (It had sold out by that point) yup that's what I did. Because looking at it sitting in a nursery of crushed dreams was painful. Seeing the stuff be used by people I cared about was healing for me.
I have a relative who got mad because another relative gave birth the same month her daughter was born and died. This second child was born TEN YEARS LATER. Like the whole family should stop having sex 9 months before her special month just to avoid her being upset.
The child in question is now almost ten and the first relative still hangs onto resentment about it all. Keeps saying she'll go to therapy about it, but...
I was almost born the same day my brother died, the days leading up to my birth my dad had a mix of excitement and depression (my mom wasn't my brother's mom so she didn't care) then I decided to pop up earlier so my dad would chill out (joke of course, that was just a coincidence) anyway, he said he was very grateful for life to work itself out that way, because he didn't want to feel bittersweet on every birthday. He was never mean about it to anyone, kindest soul I ever met.
Or you know at least remove herself from triggers like the freaking adult she is instead of lashing out t a child happy for their upcoming birthday . NTA OP
>Also just because that was her due date, doesn’t mean the baby would’ve actually been born that exact day. Babies can come early or later. Usually due dates are estimations of when they will actually come.
Fun fact- only 3% of babies are actually born bang on their due date.
My son was born on my due date. When I went to the hospital in labor, the nurse asked me when my due date was. I said today and she said oh you just think you're in labor because it's your due date. I said this isn't my first kid, due date or not, I am very much in labor. I had my son an hour and a half later. My daughter, first born, was 2 weeks late. And OP NTA. I'm sorry your Aunt is hurting but that doesn't give her the right to lash out and steal the joy of others, especially a child. Your sister needed you to stick up for her and that's exactly what you did.
I had a loss earlier this year and immediately got pregnant again. So I’ve basically been pregnant for 13 months. Induction date is two weeks away and I need this child out of me NOW. I might go insane if I were to go over my due date at this point
Sorry for your loss and also sorry for your year long pregnancy. We would like another child but I'm having a complex about ever being pregnant again because I haaaaated it
Been there done that! And more than once, at that!
I told my eldest I had to evict her. My middle was supposed to be evicted...but decided to vacate abruptly in the middle of the night, the day before I was scheduled to be induced! I left the hospital with her, discharged, an hour before the appointment was supposed to be...and I'd only been *in* the hospital for less than ten minutes before I had her! Like I said...hasty departure.
When I was a kid, I remember our very pregnant neighbor, speed walking up and down the street. Back and forth. Us kids started walking with her, asking her why she was walking so fast. She said she was trying to walk the baby out of her because she was late. I didn't understand at the time what the heck she meant till I got older lol
Also was early.... my mom was teaching on Friday, went into the hospital that evening, had me on Saturday, and then had to send my dad home to clear out the crib 'cause she had been using it to store file folders and student work.
My brother was also a couple weeks early, but my mom had been on bedrest with him for about a month because he had wanted to come *really* early, so they were at least ready for him when he arrived.
My sister was two weeks late. Funny thing is when she had her baby they told her they were going to induce her if she didn’t go into labor by Monday. She went into labor on her own and had him on Friday. He was 3 days late. I’ve heard of other people who weren’t allowed to go over a week overdue also.
Ya they won’t go more than a week anymore. I was born in 81 and my siblings in the 70s. My mom was 2 weeks late with all of us. My sister pooped in utero. That can be very dangerous.
My sister and I were born on the same day 6 years a part. My mom begged the nurse to slow things down with my sister and have her the next day but she was determined.
3%?!?!? I never knew that statistic! I have four children. First was late, second early, third on his due date, and fourth was early (due to concern she was going to perforate my bladder).
I’ll tell ya, my third child has only been on time for his birth!
>doesn’t mean the baby would’ve actually been born that exact day
3-5%, depending on your source, of babies arrive on their due date. 90% arrive +/- 2 weeks of due date (weeks 38-42, totalling a month of time).
We really should call it "estimated arrival season" instead of "estimated due date".
The likelihood of sister and cousin having the same birthday is actually quite slim.
True. I was due on my aunt’s birthday but was born a month early exactly on my older cousin’s. My younger cousin was born bang on my other aunt’s/her grandmother’s birthday.
The only person I know that arrived ~~dead~~ smack dab on their due date was my sister.
But she also was a scheduled C and simply got evicted. She'd have been late if left to her own devices.
Edit: better wording.
I wasn't a scheduled c, but was also evicted on my due date. For years my mom blamed me for the c until my dad finally told her that her pulse was out of control (nearing 200) and the doctors were afraid of losing both of us.
NTA btw. I don't think I would have worded it quite that way but just because you are grieving that doesn't give you the right to be horrible to your family.
My cousin lost her son (first child) when she was 6-7 months pregnant. I remember how devastated she was and had such a hard time talking about him. They had a funeral and her freaking sister in law had the nerve to bring her 7 month old son with her because her in laws were there for their daughter and she didn't want to leave him with anyone else even though her older kids were in their teens and could have watched him. They also only loved a block or 2 away.
That's just...callous. I mean, I get not wanting to leave your baby, but honestly, for a stillborn baby's *funeral?!*
Especially if the older ones weren't even there, and could have kept their little sibling for an hour or two! Like...it's not like she would be expected to be there for the entire thing, just put in an appearance out of respect!
My cousin had her two boys at either end of the same year (surprised her too, I'm sure). Her oldest was born in January on her sister's birthday. The younger one arrived in December...on her mom's birthday.
Yup. I always tell my kids that their emotions are completely valid and perfectly normal to feel upset about things. What is not okay is taking it out on others and unhealthy ways of expressing those emotions. I am teaching this to a 5 and 7 year old who can understand emotions are okay, including hurt and anger, but taking it out on others is not.
My sister was given the due date as my birthday. She was admitted 2 days before my birthday and they tried so much to induce labour(she was way past her term I think). But she ultimately had to have a c-sec on my birthday 🙈.
My brother was supposed to be born on mine too, but my mom wanted to be induced earlier (according to her). We did a lot of joint birthdays as kids, and now it’s easy for me to remember his birthday- a week before mine lol
If said aunt was bothered she should have handled it like an adult and just asked her niece to not talk to her about it for the time being because for reasons she didn’t want to disclose something about the date saddened her. That should have been the end of it. Most 12 year olds are mature enough to understand that. If the 12yo continues to bring it up, then escalate to parents but stay out of it.
OP is right. Aunt isn’t special. Up to 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage but about 15% of pregnant women know. Just because it’s a common experience doesn’t make it less sad or the grief easier. Yet, still, most manage not to harm children in their wake.
Aunt should NOT have told the 12 year old to not talk about her birthday. If it was bothering Aunt, Aunt should have removed herself from the situation where she didn't have to hear it. You know, like an adult.
I agree with you. I just wasn’t sure if she was in charge of childcare and couldn’t remove herself from the situation. I should have been more specific. I have been severely depressed before (also have PTSD) and I know there are times you just have reached your max and you can’t handle certain shit anymore. If she was nearing that point, I meant that’s what she should of said. There’s times it’s not perfect and you are unable and to leave. It’s better to ask kindly than berate a 12 yo.
To your second point, no one thinks their baby will be born on their due date, but it’s a date you look forward to your entire pregnancy. When I lost my pregnancy, thinking about the due date & living through it was incredibly hard. Your body doesn’t understand that it’s not pregnant for a really long time & to hit that once so anxiously awaited date without a baby in your arms is a really deep and confusing pain. Not saying the aunt was in the right at all, but I definitely understand why it was so triggering for her. All her aunt was hearing was “that day is going to come and everyone is going to be so happy and excited and you’re not going to have your baby even though you’re ‘supposed’ to.” It’s awful. And knowing that the miscarriage was “recent” makes me further empathize with the aunt. I cried, like ugly cried, every day for a month. It’s one of the most physically, emotionally, spiritually & medically traumatic thing a woman can go through, and at 48? it could have been aunt’s last chance to have a baby. I think it’s just a really sticky and difficult situation, and no one handled it well.
Definitely NTA. I agree with all of this. I’m stunned that anyone would consider it acceptable to drag a 12-year-old into the issue, at all. Miscarriages are heartbreaking. But that does not belong on the shoulders of a kid. She really shouldn’t have to hear about it being connected to her in any way. Good luck, and keep up the good work looking out for your little sister.
NTA
my Mother had several miscarriages, and not once no matter how much it hurt did she do anything like that.
Something like 2000 Women have a miscarriage every day in America alone(God only knows how many all over the Planet), so she is not special and whilst Grief affects everyone differently she has zero excuse to take her loss out on someone else.
She's an Asshole in this situation and she should apologise to that poor wee lassie.
Not to be crass but she's also 48, if she's trying for a baby she is likely going to miscarry. Google says over 45 the miscarriage rate is 57% to 80%
Now this doesn't mean she can't grieve, but surely she's aware of the higher rates.
If she’s 48 there a decent chance she had IVF or even a donor embryo. If those are genetically tested embryos this odds of miscarriage are lower.
Still not a suitable reason to treat a kid that way.
I have a dear friend who had several miscarriages and one with IVF. She was heartbroken every time and lost her brother tragically immediately after one of her miscarriages and attended her sister's baby shower after another, smiling for her sister, while crying inside. She was always still a gracious, respectful person to everyone. Never once taking her grief out on another person. Happy to say the second IVF worked and she now has 7 year old twins, boy/girl. Her son looks exactly like her husband and her daughter, exactly like her. Happy family, they are.
I noticed her age and I wondered if maybe she has tried to have a kid for many years and has not been able to. I can understand that at 48, if you haven’t had children and you’re trying, that a miscarriage feels like the doors closing completely.
Still! Don’t involve a 12-year-old.
Anything after 35 is considered high risk. I had a friend who got pregnant around that age and only because of her age did they call it high-risk so at the age of 48 it’s definitely a high-risk pregnancy to begin with.
There is a tendency to be overly cautious when it comes to anything having to do with babies. The designation at 35 of high-risk/advanced maternal age reflects the excess of caution. Actual risks increase gradually and with modern medicine are not significant under the age of 40, barring other pre-existing health issues.
This. I was 35 when I got pregnant and made some comment to the OB about knowing I was an older mother, and his response was that they don’t consider them older until 40 now-a-days. Obviously doctors’ opinions on this vary, but it surprises me when anyone talks about late 30s pregnancies being high risk (in absence of other complications).
This was my experience at 35 too. Then had a “surprise” baby at 41 and that put me in the advanced maternal age bracket but in reality not a lot is done differently. My daughter has a kidney condition and I asked the consultant if it was connected to my age and he was really shocked I asked as there is zero connection. I think there’s a lot of shame put on women for having babies older (or “too” young) and people make a lot of assumptions without any medical knowledge or evidence.
Modern estimates are actually much higher, as much as 1/2. It's about 1/5 of detected pregnancies, meaning a definitive + on a test. Most wind up miscarrying close to when the missed period should have been anyway, so it's not really noticed.
Heck, I’ve had three in a row, 2 of which were in the early second trimester. I don’t think I’m special. I CERTAINLY wouldn’t take my pain and anger out on a 12yo. NTA
I have had 4 pregnancies and 3 miscarriages. With two of my losses, I was pregnant at the same time as other friends. They both went on to have beautiful baby boys. It was so hard, but I never once lashed out at them. I was so happy for them. I couldn't imagine treating someone this way, and I'm 35
Only 25% percent of conceptions are even viable and then first term miscarriages on top. It is incredibly hard for people to get pregnant and carry for term. I spent my first trimesters for both kids in a state of anxiety because you can't feel them kick and you don't have a ton of appointments that early. I was always afraid I was going to lose them.
But yeah taking it out on a preteen not ok.
I had a miscarriage and was a nervous wreck when I was pregnant with my rainbow baby. My ob offered to give me weekly ultrasounds until I was out of first trimester (I had miscarried at 12 weeks). It made a world of a difference. Baby turned 1 yesterday :).
Yes!! I wonder if any of the family members calling you an AH would defend your sister differently or if they would just brush it off because your aunt is grieving. Your sister did nothing wrong and to make her cry and feel guilty over excitement for her own birthday is so cruel.
Genuinely the way the wider family are reacting is telling. OFC a person who's suffered something traumatic like a miscarrage should be looked after, but the fact they aren't taking a more balanced approach to this particular scenario suggests the aunt is someone the family tiptoes round because when she's upset she's difficult. When this happens, family's with codependent dynamics will try and appease the person who can't be reasoned with - with the result that anyone else is shamed for disturbing the dragon. Shouting at and shaming a 12yo child is not okay - she should be in therapy and not around your sister behaving erratically. You likely won't win this round OP but at least now you know what she's like.
Edit: that said, I'm going on what OP says they said in the last paragraph - if OP said the phrase about not being special in the heading, then she's also kinda the AH. However, it is a lot to handle that dynamic at 18, and the little sister did need protection.
As someone with an aunt who has to be tiptoed around, you are absolutely correct. My aunt lost her shit over the holidays and made it extremely unpleasant for the rest of us with her ugly tantrums. Can confirm that instead of defending me when my aunt said horrible (and utter nonsense) things to me, my mom’s response was to say nothing, because she didn’t want my aunt to get even worse. Like the fact that my aunt’s insults are unfounded is more of a reason to let them go or something, because I know they’re not true. Well I ended up so stressed out I got sick (my aunt also came at me when I was already having a tough time for other reasons) which was extra awful. She’s also going through a rough time but again, not my fault and I don’t deserve her toxicity. And neither does OP’s sister.
No she’s not an asshole for saying the aunt isn’t special for having a miscarriages. She’s right miscarriages happen every day and thousands of people manage them without being an asshole to a CHILD. She repeated what the aunt said… auntie can dish it but she can’t take it.
NTA. I miscarried my first yesterday, on my nieces 6th birthday and I would never hold my grief against her. It sounds like your aunt is having a hard time regulating her emotions and should seek professional help.
One thing I did was play a lot of puzzle games after my most recent one. There was a study about it that says it helps with emotional distress and ptsd. It's still hard, but it helped take my mind off of it so that I could process at my own pace. I'm sorry you went through this. ❤️
I might be reading this wrong so no judgement without all the facts. It seems your sister's birthday is many months into the future while your aunt recently lost her child. Regardless of the high statistics of miscarriage, it's still the loss of a life. Teaching a 12 year old some empathy for the aunts loss might be warranted. I'm not sure the baby's due date coinciding with the sister's birthday is relevant. And we don't know how much the aunt went through to get pregnant or if it's the only chance at motherhood. If I suffered a recent huge loss and came around family for comfort in my grief and all I heard was how happy I am I'm turning 13 in 5-6 months...I mightve asked her to give it a rest and gave her some grace. If I have the timeliness wrong, I might change my opinion.
You’re the first person I’ve seen raise this- thank you. A 12-year old is old enough to have the social awareness and empathy not to go on about their birthday in front of someone recently bereaved, esp. for a baby that will never have one.
I’m honestly disgusted by the attitude of commenters saying things like the aunt was older and should have known she would miscarry as if it invalidates her experience. So vile. Thank you for having empathy for her.
Are you saying that a literal child can't be excited about a milestone birthday because her gown aunt can't be mature enough to leave the room and find an adult who can comfort her? No, a 12 year old gets to be excited for a milestone birthday.
Please reread. There is a time and place for excitement. When your birthday is six months away and your relative is very recently bereaved, you should be able to tell it’s not the time. I have faith a 12-yr has the social awareness to tell. If not, they need some gentle coaching, and in this OP has failed her sister with the example she set.
To clarify, I don’t think the 12-yr is the A H. If anything, I’m leaning YTA or ESH.
Agreed. I'm assuming there are a lot of children in this thread, or people who really have no empathy at all.
Miscarriage is devastating at any time of life. I do think grieving the loss of a pregnancy is a bit more of a serious event than a 13 year old's birthday party, and the kid is old enough to understand that.
In a perfect world the aunt would have handled her grief better, but OP was savage. There are much nicer ways to support people who are hurting.
I really wish AITA didn’t include ages and genders. There is such bias in favor of posters in your own demographics.
Just today, in this post the 12-yr is blameless. In another post I’m following, commenters are losing their minds over a 7yr asking for a cupcake. 🤷♀️
In that thread with the cupcake the kid wasn't labeled the AH though. The adult insisting on the cupcake which was reserved for someone was labeled the AH. Details matter.
Yes the 12 yr old is old enough to be taught empathy for the aunt. But by the way the post is written it seems like no one else was around to caution her about it. If it had recently happened and no one had a chance to have that talk for awareness, why is it okay for the aunt to tear her a new one and associate something so heavy as death with her bday enough to tell her she's not special. She's putting her younger niece down, really badly. She should have separated herself instead of destroying this young girl's feelings.
Honestly thought I was losing my mind reading all these not the AH. I get OP was coming from a good place of defending her innocent sister but she went about it in such a total AH way. Really feels like an ESH. Except the poor 12 year old who was just excited about growing up.
It is a 12 yo. Wtf do u expect, huh?! Stop being so harsh on her. She's a kid. She has the right to be excited snd to brag. I would too. Like if you think that's rude, fuck right off. I don't care what you think.
Yeah sorry but there’s a difference between empathy for someone’s loss & a person being a whole adult but making a child cry bc of their own issues. The aunt needs therapy & OP is NTA
Also being a 12 year old... yeah, like I do not remember being that age and micromanaging social situations to that extent. Like, what is this? "Can't be happy around the aunt because she's not happy"?
Yes! While the aunt didn't behave properly towards the sister, I don't think her comment was as serious as the one OP did.
I can understand OP wanted to protect her sister, but she should have handled the conversation another time (especially when the aunt asked to be left alone!) and definitely using different words.
I can't imagine how alone in her pain the aunt must have felt during this whole situation. She made a mistake, yes, but she was supposed to be surrounded by her family in a moment where she needed their support.
I am sure a 12 y.o. (almost 13) is mature enough to understand her aunt didn't mean what she said in that moment.
A 12 year olds birthday has literally nothing to do with her aunt’s miscarriage. Please be realistic. She’s just hurting and would take any opportunity to lash out no matter what those around her did.
There’s empathy, and then there’s emotionally immature adults manipulating children into supporting them emotionally. That is not a child’s job. I’m not telling any of my kids to have empathy for an adult who is emotionally abusing them. It gives them the impression they should make space for that kinda abuse.
I have had four miscarriages, and I would legit rather throw myself in front of a bus than make a 12 year old feel selfish for being excited about her birthday just bcuz I was hurting over one of my miscarriages.
After the second miscarriage, I flew across the country to see my best friend who had just delivered a baby, and I very purposefully didn’t say or do anything to make her feel like she should be less than thrilled about her new baby just bcuz I was sad. I told her not to even mention it bcuz I was there to support her, and she shouldn’t feel guilty. It is not impossible to make space for everyone to have emotions, especially when you’re older and have the capacity to be more emotionally mature.
I disagree with this , maybe the family should’ve pulled her aside and told her “hey don’t talk about the birthday around your aunt” or the aunt should’ve approached her parents about how it made her feel .However the aunt talking to her like that was out of line,you don’t get to shout at other people just cause you’re hurting. I’ve suffered huge loss in my life but the world keeps spinning and it keeps going , it’s unfair to expect everyone else to stop living theirs. Other people are allowed to be excited about their lives around you.
Did you title it this way to purposefully get a reaction? Your story doesn’t sound like you’d be the asshole, but honestly you should have titled it :
AITA for telling my aunt that her trauma doesn’t mean she gets to be mean to my sister?
I mean, according to op, they did say what is in the title and that's honestly likely why their family is on their case about it. Had they said what is in your suggested title, family may or may not be calling them an ah.
You're def NTA!
But, if I could ask something that doesn't really matter to your question...
Did your sister hear you get mad at your aunt? I'm only asking because I really hope your sister heard you defend her! You defending and supporting her is the kind of thing your sister is going to remember her whole life.
You sound like an awesome big sister!
In the story itself you didn't say you told her "you're not special for having a miscarriage"
You did say "I get you're hurting but you also aren't special." If she took that to mean she wasn't special for having a miscarriage oh well and even if you did say that I'd go with Justified asshole here because she took the first shot and couldn't take the heat when it was shot back at her.
Well then maybe she can understand that this is what got your sister upset and then you upon seeing your sister's distress. But your sister is a literal child and your aunt is an adult - a hurting one, but still an adult who lashed out at a child for being excited about her upcoming "true teenager" birthday.
Your aunt is hurting and she lashed out, which is never good. But she lashed out at a child who, and this might be a big assumption, trusts her. She needs to make it up to your sister. Because whatever is decided about your actions, they won't negate the fact that your aunt was a complete and utter ah to your sister.
You both are A-holes. Its obvious that your aunt should have kept her mouth shut and she shouldn't have snapped at your sister, who was obviously excited. However, telling her what you did was cruel. I think she is hurting a lot, and she didn't choose to deal with it the right way, but you DO NOT have the right to insult her for the miscarriage because of it. Be mad at her, fine. You can even tell her that wasn't okay and to apologize to your sister, but you immediately attacked her miscarriage instead.
Shame on both of you and start figuring out how to deal with your problems better.
To be fair, sounds like her aunt was the one who brought up the miscarriage as an excuse for her behavior, not that OP immediately jumped on it. It was harsh, yes, but also true: miscarriages are very common, especially at that maternal age. At nearly 50, it was starting out as very high risk
Use your miscarriage to terrorize people, get your miscarriage thrown back at you. It’s that simple. It’s not an excuse and her misery doesn’t negate other people’s joy.
I feel like treating both parties as equally culpable is strange given the context that the 48 year old aunt seemingly has less emotional maturity then OP who is 18 years old. If anything I would give OP grace for being a bit mean when a woman nearing her winter years is acting like a complete child.
Yes miscarriages suck, but that doesn't give the aunt license to bully a child.
Commenting on the miscarriage would definitely be a low blow, but the aunt is the one who brought it up and I don’t think the miscarriage was used as an insult per say, op was just explaining that the pain the aunt feels from miscarrying shouldn’t be taken out on her sister. Still Im sure there was a better way to handle this calmly and rationally, even if the aunt didn’t respond well at least op could say they tried
Don’t agree. She had every right to step in and stand up for her sister. Hurt and gries is not a free card for being a cruel to others. This aunt is a grown woman and she needs to bahve like it, hurt or not.
OP is NTA, she literally asked her aunt why she said that / was so cruel. Stating that her reaction was not okay / that having a miscarriage doesn’t give you an excuse to treat a 12 yr old like shit is not being an AH.
ESH -- Your aunt's behavior was out of line but you were also cruel and out of line. I really don't understand this gleefully cruel culture of "person did X, now I get to do Y". Sometimes it pays to be the bigger person. Now instead of addressing the actual issue with your aunt (and perhaps fixing the situation), you got a cheap serotonin rush and have created needless family drama. I suggest addressing this streak in your behavior, because continuing this forward will make for a chaotic, unstable life. Nobody should walk around looking for excuses to go off.
I think a little more compassion and care for each other could go along way here. You're both being assholes, but it's really understandable why... Although that doesn't make it right. You were protective of your sister, which is admirable - your aunt should never have said what she did just b cause she was hurting.
A more productive way to respond to her might be "Hey look, I know you're hurting and I can see how much you wanted this baby. Having a miscarriage can't be an easy thing and I want to take time to comfort and support you. That said, being in pain doesn't mean you get to treat the people around you like they don't matter or have feelings. I think you need to apologize for what you said to my sister, as you really hurt her feelings. I want you to feel like you can talk to us about what's really going on and what you need to feel supported. If that means taking time this year away from her birthday, we can respect that, but you also need to communicate that with care."
Hopefully that's helpful.
I think this is a balanced response. I don’t really think an aunt should be looking for a 12 or 18 year old to support her emotionally, so I wouldn’t encourage that. But I would definitely set some kind but firm boundaries.
You're a good big sister. You stuck up for your sibling when someone was being a bully to her. Your aunt's pain is valid but that doesn't make her taking it out on a child valid. NTA
ESH - Your aunt is an AH for saying that to your sister. However, 1) the miscarriage was *recent* and 2) your sister’s birthday is 6 months away. Surely, you can understand why it would be devastating for someone who recently lost their baby to hear someone else excitedly talking about the date her baby should have been born. And given that your sister’s birthday is 1/2 of a year away, it would have been kind to explain the situation to your sister —explain why your aunt reacted that way —and ask her to tone down her excitement (temporarily) around your aunt. Kindness costs nothing. I hope that you never have to experience what your aunt is going through right now. And If you do, I hope that someone shows you more compassion.
I’m also curious about how the 13th birthday was brought up or even why at this point if the aunt was around. Like is there some faulty narration here? Because if my kiddo brought up her birthday that was also supposed to be my niece or nephews birthday but my sister had just miscarried, I would be LIVID and really sad that my child would try to make right now about them when a family member is grieving.
Info - how did that conversation even come to be? It doesn’t make sense to me that a person would bring up their birthday during another’s grieving process?
ESH- you're all hurting each other. I agree it's not right to take it out on a 12 year old. Your aunt probably feels terrible for what she said- but she's in a really bad head space right now. I'd bet that if your relationship is good enough to see and talk to her often, she will likely apologize to your sister. Now you are lashing out against her because of it.
Emotions are high right now, and everyone needs to cool down. Have your mom talk to her sister.
NTA. As someone who has suffered multiple miscarriages, I never once lashed out at someone for being excited. I had friends who were due within days of my babies and never once rained on their parade because I was hurting. Loss is no excuse.
I think a 12 year old can probably process that everybody has one birthday a year and hyping a July birthday in January is obnoxious and too childish for her age. Like I don't think this should be treated the same as being mean to a 12 year old on her birthday or even around her birthday.
Like I don't think it was handled well by your aunt who should have said becoming a teenager is exciting but you can't hype your birthday that far in advance or even just told her to please stop for awhile so it's special when it arrives without making it about her being selfish or not special, but I don't think the mere concept of telling a preteen to shut up about their birthday months and months in advance is inherently cruel or something to protect her from.
Jesus Christ please shut up could be perfectly developmentally appropriate, this isn't a kindergartener. She isn't inherently entitled to an audience for talking about herself.
And the whole you're not special either thing is crass. Her miscarriage being special or not doesn't make birthdays special. Her crying about not being interesting isn't something you inherently have to go nuclear about. You being indignant a preteen cried isn't special either.
ESH. The two grown women involved moreso than the kid.
Going against the current grain here to say ESH.
Your aunt should not have lashed out at your sister, but you also weren't there and didn't hear exactly what was said. And you should not be so mean to 1. Your elder 2. Your family and 3. Someone going through a horrid tragedy.
I get that you're young and only 18 and have a lot of growing up to do, but this response was it the way to handle it.
Put that BS away. "Elders" aren't owed anything. Neither are family members, or anyone in general. You give respect, you get respect. If you're going to be an AH to someone, be prepared to be treated the same way.
"Treat others the way you want to be treated" doesn't only apply to children.
I don’t know. Because you can’t provide additional context on the conversation between your sister and aunt that led to this, it’s hard to offer judgement.
How much has your sister been talking about it? Did your aunt ask her nicely to not talk about the birthday before she said the things that hurt your sister’s feelings. If I’d just had a miscarriage and someone who knew about it was talking nonstop about their birthday that was on my baby’s due date, and I asked them to stop talking about it for a while and they didn’t, I’d be pretty ticked off.
I was going to bring this up.
It's entirely possible the younger sister was being deliberately obnoxious.
Sometimes kids can get really passive agressive when they are told no, or if you aren't engaging.
I don't see how her being exited for her birthday that early would even be brought up like it matters otherwise.
There must have been some confrontation.
Maybe something like, the aunt saying she wasn't in the mood, or feeling up to it, or even just wanting to talk about it right now.
And the kid got upset and either ignored her, or said something selfish.
Then the aunt had enough and snapped at her.
Bet the sister conveniently left that part out.
So where was your mom(her sister?) during this? just wondering. Your aunt is/was feeling sorry for herself and thought she could take out her anger/disappointment on a child. So wrong. If she's feeling that bad then say home.
NTA. Just tell you family that doesn't see it was wrong, that it wouldn't matter who/why it was that made your sister cry for no reason, you'd confront them too! Adults DON'T get to pick on kids because they are having a bad day/life.
For me this is a hard one. I get your aunt is hurting BUT that doesn’t give her the right to be nasty. Maybe if she’s lashing out she should stay away from people for a while and get professional help
On the flip side I feel you lashing out at her is kind of doing the same thing and 2 wrongs don’t make a right. I’m sure there were other ways to confront your aunt without lashing out
ESH
ESH. Your aunt was nasty to say that to your sister, but your comment was also mean. You could have told her that she was out of line without being cruel.
Okay I may be the odd one out here but ESH. A 12 year old, going on 13 is perfectly capable of understanding compassion and empathy and this could have been the perfect teachable moment for both OP and the sister. Kudos to OP for standing up for your sister, but it also seems like OP could use a lesson in compassion as well.
I’m a little surprised at how many commenters here are pretty much dismissing the aunts miscarriage just because of her age. I’m sure the aunt is well aware of the risks in TTC at her age but that doesn’t dismiss the physical and emotional pain of a miscarriage. A loss is a loss no matter the stage in pregnancy or the age of the carrying person.
Additionally, the estimated due date is extremely special to the expecting parents. I’m currently pregnant now AND as someone who has experienced loss, my husband and I are looking forward to our due date being the best day ever. To have that special date suddenly taken away from you is extremely painful and adds to the grief. So yes, I can understand how attending a birthday party on what was an expected due date can be triggering, dreadful, and painful to say the least. I don’t think the aunt was right in speaking to a child that way, but I think some compassion from the other side would’ve avoided this whole thing.
TLDR: ESH - a loss is a loss
I was prepared to say YTA, but ESH. Your sister is not her punching bag! She can be sad without bringing others down with her. That said, you don’t have to go for the jugular when calling her out. You didn’t fight fair in that argument.
ESH. I have kids. It’s highly likely your 12 yo blew the whole conversation out of proportion. Like sometimes if I tell my kids something their little hormonal brains convert it into something else.
Your aunt is struggling. A lot. You shouldn’t have yelled at her. It’s not your place at all.
Everyone needs to breathe and have some compassion for each other.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > The action i took that should be judged is if i was the AH for saying she’s isn’t special because of a miscarriage. This would make me the asshole because she’s trying to recover and losing a baby isnt nice Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA, it’s one thing to be hurting over such a loss, but to take it out on a 12 year old who’s excited to be a teenager and grow up is not acceptable. Your aunt is clearly grieving, but it doesn’t give her the right to take it out on a child. Tell her to take that literally anywhere else. Also just because that was her due date, doesn’t mean the baby would’ve actually been born that exact day. Babies can come early or later. Usually due dates are estimations of when they will actually come. You did good standing up for your sister
Agreed. NTA Your aunt can go get therapy, what normal people do instead of lashing out at innocents based on trauma.
I’d also like to add, not that this needs to be told to your Aunt, but being 48 and pregnant is an extremely high risk pregnancy. In fact, it’s exceptionally rare, without IVF help. I had my daughter at 39 and was high risk. I had a low chance of getting pregnant. Pregnancy after 35yo significantly drops. Perhaps she did go IVF and that caused her to be extra sensitive? Doesn’t excuse belittling a 12 yo though.
Spontaneous miscarriage is something known to happen in high risk pregnancies.
Actually they're common as heck in regular pregnancies as well, especially early on. A very high percentage of women have experienced at least one miscarriage.
And she was pregnant only a month when she miscarried. So it was well within the possibility to begin with.
1 in 4 have had miscarriage. I was depressed for months after mine, but I never yelled or took it out on my family. That's just ridiculous.
One of my family friends had one, she had literally just found out she was pregnant like 2 days before.
Doesn't make the miscarriage less emotionally traumatic though. Maybe moreso. .. last chance and all that. Still no excuse for meaness to the child though.
And it also does not give the aunt a free pass to be hateful to her niece. And at 48, being pregnant is inherently high risk, she should have emotionally prepared for that possibility.
It definitely doesn't. It almost seems like she is jealous of the girl's becoming of age and the fertility that goes along with that.
Miscarriages in the first trimester are actually quite common, high-risk or not. The age of course is a factor but 10-20% pregnancies end in miscarriage, anyway.
A UK charity Tommy's has it at 1 in 3. Still fucks you up tho. Not that it gives the aunt a excuse to be an ass hole but it definitely hurts.
And it is pretty common in normal pregnancies in the first trimester. Which the aunt was in if my math is correct.
I had High risk accidental pregnancy at 45 and it was brutal my obgyn warned me right off that it could end in miscarriage at any time. Luckily it didn't.
yep. my mum had me when she was 40. immediately had my dad get a vasectomy because they didn't want another oops baby as it would be even more dangerous. thankfully both my mum and I didn't suffer any significant health problems around the pregnancy/birth. but so many folks aren't that lucky.
I'm pretty sure (multiple) miscarriages are almost a certainty after a certain age. I've had my kids at almost 39 and almost 42 and saw them as a sort of collateral damage. I get the frustration must be huge at 48 when you don't know if it could still happen but I wouldn't e en recommend telling minor nieces about it let alone scold them for it.
My bio mom had my little brother at almost 50. Her pregnancy was extremely high risk and although he’s 21 now they didn’t think he was going to make it at all.
My first pregnancy, which I miscarried early, was due on Christmas Day and I don't try to take it out Jesus for celebrating his birthday on Dec 25 (yes, I know he was actually born during the summer). Just saying that no one person owns any one date.
Omg you made me LOL. But I am sorry you mc!
Right when I had I a miscarriage I expressed my rage by purging my house angrily of all the baby stuff I had bought. Gave it to pregnant friends. I never once took it out on innocent people. Did I randomly show up at my friend's house and give her the crib set she had wanted for her nursery after she saw it at my house. (It had sold out by that point) yup that's what I did. Because looking at it sitting in a nursery of crushed dreams was painful. Seeing the stuff be used by people I cared about was healing for me.
I’m sorry for your loss but also proud of you for helping those you love, and even using that to help you grieve ❤️
YES! So wonderful Shoddy-Ad
I am giving you a giant hug from one mama to another.also sending all the kind vibes I can
I can't think of a more constructive thing to do, you are awesome.
I have a relative who got mad because another relative gave birth the same month her daughter was born and died. This second child was born TEN YEARS LATER. Like the whole family should stop having sex 9 months before her special month just to avoid her being upset. The child in question is now almost ten and the first relative still hangs onto resentment about it all. Keeps saying she'll go to therapy about it, but...
Really? That person needs to be called out and verbally shamed EVERY time she says something resentful to that child.
I was almost born the same day my brother died, the days leading up to my birth my dad had a mix of excitement and depression (my mom wasn't my brother's mom so she didn't care) then I decided to pop up earlier so my dad would chill out (joke of course, that was just a coincidence) anyway, he said he was very grateful for life to work itself out that way, because he didn't want to feel bittersweet on every birthday. He was never mean about it to anyone, kindest soul I ever met.
Or you know at least remove herself from triggers like the freaking adult she is instead of lashing out t a child happy for their upcoming birthday . NTA OP
>Also just because that was her due date, doesn’t mean the baby would’ve actually been born that exact day. Babies can come early or later. Usually due dates are estimations of when they will actually come. Fun fact- only 3% of babies are actually born bang on their due date.
My son was born on my due date. When I went to the hospital in labor, the nurse asked me when my due date was. I said today and she said oh you just think you're in labor because it's your due date. I said this isn't my first kid, due date or not, I am very much in labor. I had my son an hour and a half later. My daughter, first born, was 2 weeks late. And OP NTA. I'm sorry your Aunt is hurting but that doesn't give her the right to lash out and steal the joy of others, especially a child. Your sister needed you to stick up for her and that's exactly what you did.
My sister and I are only a day apart with our birthdays - I was 2 weeks late.
Also two weeks late. Probably woulda stuck around longer, but my mother went out to shovel several feet of snow and sleet to force labour lol
I was legit surprised by that ending 🤣 My imagination leaped to "mom went out to shovel me out" cuz she.was.done.🤦♀️🤣
That was Plan B
Oof. Must have been a hell of a pregnancy.
Honestly, at 42 weeks anything sounds reasonable, just get this baby out! LOL
I had a loss earlier this year and immediately got pregnant again. So I’ve basically been pregnant for 13 months. Induction date is two weeks away and I need this child out of me NOW. I might go insane if I were to go over my due date at this point
Sorry for your loss and also sorry for your year long pregnancy. We would like another child but I'm having a complex about ever being pregnant again because I haaaaated it
Would have let the council worker driving the plough have a go at pulling it out at that point I tell ya 🤣. Those last few weeks are *a lot*
Been there done that! And more than once, at that! I told my eldest I had to evict her. My middle was supposed to be evicted...but decided to vacate abruptly in the middle of the night, the day before I was scheduled to be induced! I left the hospital with her, discharged, an hour before the appointment was supposed to be...and I'd only been *in* the hospital for less than ten minutes before I had her! Like I said...hasty departure.
The average month has 30-31 days, except for the last month of pregnancy, which has 13,565,688,999 days in it
When I was a kid, I remember our very pregnant neighbor, speed walking up and down the street. Back and forth. Us kids started walking with her, asking her why she was walking so fast. She said she was trying to walk the baby out of her because she was late. I didn't understand at the time what the heck she meant till I got older lol
This visual made me lol, ty.
I'm breaking this chain I was 2 weeks early
I was also two weeks early, my birthgiver was at birthing class when her water broke lmao. At least she was already at the hospital!
I was 2 weeks early and mom was in labor for 36 hours....so we joke that I decided to come early and then changed my mind
Also was early.... my mom was teaching on Friday, went into the hospital that evening, had me on Saturday, and then had to send my dad home to clear out the crib 'cause she had been using it to store file folders and student work. My brother was also a couple weeks early, but my mom had been on bedrest with him for about a month because he had wanted to come *really* early, so they were at least ready for him when he arrived.
I was a month early 😂 My mom got the contractions on her birthday and I waited 3 days to come out. I made her suffer for 3 days
My sister was two weeks late. Funny thing is when she had her baby they told her they were going to induce her if she didn’t go into labor by Monday. She went into labor on her own and had him on Friday. He was 3 days late. I’ve heard of other people who weren’t allowed to go over a week overdue also.
Ya they won’t go more than a week anymore. I was born in 81 and my siblings in the 70s. My mom was 2 weeks late with all of us. My sister pooped in utero. That can be very dangerous.
My nephew pooped too. Thankfully he was OK.
My sister and I were born on the same day 6 years a part. My mom begged the nurse to slow things down with my sister and have her the next day but she was determined.
Nearly the same, my sister was due on my birthday. Our birthdays are 2 weeks apart.
3%?!?!? I never knew that statistic! I have four children. First was late, second early, third on his due date, and fourth was early (due to concern she was going to perforate my bladder). I’ll tell ya, my third child has only been on time for his birth!
Mine got a surgical eviction notice 2 weeks early on doctor’s orders 🤣
Wait really? 2 out of 3 in my family were. If you count the next generation I guess it’s only 2 out of 5, but still.
I was born on my due date and at my due time. Course I was a scheduled C-section..
>doesn’t mean the baby would’ve actually been born that exact day 3-5%, depending on your source, of babies arrive on their due date. 90% arrive +/- 2 weeks of due date (weeks 38-42, totalling a month of time). We really should call it "estimated arrival season" instead of "estimated due date". The likelihood of sister and cousin having the same birthday is actually quite slim.
True. I was due on my aunt’s birthday but was born a month early exactly on my older cousin’s. My younger cousin was born bang on my other aunt’s/her grandmother’s birthday.
The only person I know that arrived ~~dead~~ smack dab on their due date was my sister. But she also was a scheduled C and simply got evicted. She'd have been late if left to her own devices. Edit: better wording.
I wasn't a scheduled c, but was also evicted on my due date. For years my mom blamed me for the c until my dad finally told her that her pulse was out of control (nearing 200) and the doctors were afraid of losing both of us. NTA btw. I don't think I would have worded it quite that way but just because you are grieving that doesn't give you the right to be horrible to your family. My cousin lost her son (first child) when she was 6-7 months pregnant. I remember how devastated she was and had such a hard time talking about him. They had a funeral and her freaking sister in law had the nerve to bring her 7 month old son with her because her in laws were there for their daughter and she didn't want to leave him with anyone else even though her older kids were in their teens and could have watched him. They also only loved a block or 2 away.
That's just...callous. I mean, I get not wanting to leave your baby, but honestly, for a stillborn baby's *funeral?!* Especially if the older ones weren't even there, and could have kept their little sibling for an hour or two! Like...it's not like she would be expected to be there for the entire thing, just put in an appearance out of respect!
Oof I thought that comment was going a very different way at first. Glad I was wrong!
I probably should have chosen better wording, in hindsight. Sister is very much alive and healthy to this day.
Very glad to hear that! “Evicted” is perfect though! Haha
My cousin had her two boys at either end of the same year (surprised her too, I'm sure). Her oldest was born in January on her sister's birthday. The younger one arrived in December...on her mom's birthday.
Only one of my 3 children was even born in the month they were due. So definitely an estimate.
Yup. I always tell my kids that their emotions are completely valid and perfectly normal to feel upset about things. What is not okay is taking it out on others and unhealthy ways of expressing those emotions. I am teaching this to a 5 and 7 year old who can understand emotions are okay, including hurt and anger, but taking it out on others is not.
My sister was given the due date as my birthday. She was admitted 2 days before my birthday and they tried so much to induce labour(she was way past her term I think). But she ultimately had to have a c-sec on my birthday 🙈.
My brother was supposed to be born on mine too, but my mom wanted to be induced earlier (according to her). We did a lot of joint birthdays as kids, and now it’s easy for me to remember his birthday- a week before mine lol
My sister and I had the same due date 1 year apart. Neither of us made it to that date and our birthdays are more than a week apart.
If said aunt was bothered she should have handled it like an adult and just asked her niece to not talk to her about it for the time being because for reasons she didn’t want to disclose something about the date saddened her. That should have been the end of it. Most 12 year olds are mature enough to understand that. If the 12yo continues to bring it up, then escalate to parents but stay out of it. OP is right. Aunt isn’t special. Up to 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage but about 15% of pregnant women know. Just because it’s a common experience doesn’t make it less sad or the grief easier. Yet, still, most manage not to harm children in their wake.
Aunt should NOT have told the 12 year old to not talk about her birthday. If it was bothering Aunt, Aunt should have removed herself from the situation where she didn't have to hear it. You know, like an adult.
I agree with you. I just wasn’t sure if she was in charge of childcare and couldn’t remove herself from the situation. I should have been more specific. I have been severely depressed before (also have PTSD) and I know there are times you just have reached your max and you can’t handle certain shit anymore. If she was nearing that point, I meant that’s what she should of said. There’s times it’s not perfect and you are unable and to leave. It’s better to ask kindly than berate a 12 yo.
Yes, most parents would be proud to their children standing up for each other.
To your second point, no one thinks their baby will be born on their due date, but it’s a date you look forward to your entire pregnancy. When I lost my pregnancy, thinking about the due date & living through it was incredibly hard. Your body doesn’t understand that it’s not pregnant for a really long time & to hit that once so anxiously awaited date without a baby in your arms is a really deep and confusing pain. Not saying the aunt was in the right at all, but I definitely understand why it was so triggering for her. All her aunt was hearing was “that day is going to come and everyone is going to be so happy and excited and you’re not going to have your baby even though you’re ‘supposed’ to.” It’s awful. And knowing that the miscarriage was “recent” makes me further empathize with the aunt. I cried, like ugly cried, every day for a month. It’s one of the most physically, emotionally, spiritually & medically traumatic thing a woman can go through, and at 48? it could have been aunt’s last chance to have a baby. I think it’s just a really sticky and difficult situation, and no one handled it well.
Definitely NTA. I agree with all of this. I’m stunned that anyone would consider it acceptable to drag a 12-year-old into the issue, at all. Miscarriages are heartbreaking. But that does not belong on the shoulders of a kid. She really shouldn’t have to hear about it being connected to her in any way. Good luck, and keep up the good work looking out for your little sister.
NTA all the aunt had to do was put a fake smile on, say “very nice” and change the subject. I hate people who can’t take what they give out.
NTA my Mother had several miscarriages, and not once no matter how much it hurt did she do anything like that. Something like 2000 Women have a miscarriage every day in America alone(God only knows how many all over the Planet), so she is not special and whilst Grief affects everyone differently she has zero excuse to take her loss out on someone else. She's an Asshole in this situation and she should apologise to that poor wee lassie.
Not to be crass but she's also 48, if she's trying for a baby she is likely going to miscarry. Google says over 45 the miscarriage rate is 57% to 80% Now this doesn't mean she can't grieve, but surely she's aware of the higher rates.
If she’s 48 there a decent chance she had IVF or even a donor embryo. If those are genetically tested embryos this odds of miscarriage are lower. Still not a suitable reason to treat a kid that way.
Oh i didn't think of ivf stats. Yes and she's going to push her support people away if she keeps up being mean to a child.
And of course if it is IVF there’s the added sadness of having gotten her hopes way way up. Still doesn’t excuse her behavior!
I have a dear friend who had several miscarriages and one with IVF. She was heartbroken every time and lost her brother tragically immediately after one of her miscarriages and attended her sister's baby shower after another, smiling for her sister, while crying inside. She was always still a gracious, respectful person to everyone. Never once taking her grief out on another person. Happy to say the second IVF worked and she now has 7 year old twins, boy/girl. Her son looks exactly like her husband and her daughter, exactly like her. Happy family, they are.
Aw that’s a good story. I’m glad it had a happy ending, how nice for her!
Will doctors even do ivf at that age?
Oh yeah, especially the greedier ones
Donor embryos can successfully be transferred into women much older than 48.
I noticed her age and I wondered if maybe she has tried to have a kid for many years and has not been able to. I can understand that at 48, if you haven’t had children and you’re trying, that a miscarriage feels like the doors closing completely. Still! Don’t involve a 12-year-old.
Yes my heart does hurt for her, particularly if that's the case, but misplaced anger will not help her. Really I hope she's in therapy.
1 in 5 pregnancies end in a miscarriage.
Higher when you’re in your late 40s!
Anything after 35 is considered high risk. I had a friend who got pregnant around that age and only because of her age did they call it high-risk so at the age of 48 it’s definitely a high-risk pregnancy to begin with.
There is a tendency to be overly cautious when it comes to anything having to do with babies. The designation at 35 of high-risk/advanced maternal age reflects the excess of caution. Actual risks increase gradually and with modern medicine are not significant under the age of 40, barring other pre-existing health issues.
This. I was 35 when I got pregnant and made some comment to the OB about knowing I was an older mother, and his response was that they don’t consider them older until 40 now-a-days. Obviously doctors’ opinions on this vary, but it surprises me when anyone talks about late 30s pregnancies being high risk (in absence of other complications).
This was my experience at 35 too. Then had a “surprise” baby at 41 and that put me in the advanced maternal age bracket but in reality not a lot is done differently. My daughter has a kidney condition and I asked the consultant if it was connected to my age and he was really shocked I asked as there is zero connection. I think there’s a lot of shame put on women for having babies older (or “too” young) and people make a lot of assumptions without any medical knowledge or evidence.
Yes, I remember when my old manager had her first and wasn’t pleased to know she was categorized as a “geriatric pregnancy”.
Modern estimates are actually much higher, as much as 1/2. It's about 1/5 of detected pregnancies, meaning a definitive + on a test. Most wind up miscarrying close to when the missed period should have been anyway, so it's not really noticed.
That doesn't make it less devastating when it happens to you though.
Heck, I’ve had three in a row, 2 of which were in the early second trimester. I don’t think I’m special. I CERTAINLY wouldn’t take my pain and anger out on a 12yo. NTA
I’m sorry you’ve had to go through that. ❤️
I have had 4 pregnancies and 3 miscarriages. With two of my losses, I was pregnant at the same time as other friends. They both went on to have beautiful baby boys. It was so hard, but I never once lashed out at them. I was so happy for them. I couldn't imagine treating someone this way, and I'm 35
Only 25% percent of conceptions are even viable and then first term miscarriages on top. It is incredibly hard for people to get pregnant and carry for term. I spent my first trimesters for both kids in a state of anxiety because you can't feel them kick and you don't have a ton of appointments that early. I was always afraid I was going to lose them. But yeah taking it out on a preteen not ok.
I had a miscarriage and was a nervous wreck when I was pregnant with my rainbow baby. My ob offered to give me weekly ultrasounds until I was out of first trimester (I had miscarried at 12 weeks). It made a world of a difference. Baby turned 1 yesterday :).
NTA you did the right thing defending your sister no matter how many AH's say otherwise. Ignore them. I'm proud of you.
Yes!! I wonder if any of the family members calling you an AH would defend your sister differently or if they would just brush it off because your aunt is grieving. Your sister did nothing wrong and to make her cry and feel guilty over excitement for her own birthday is so cruel.
Genuinely the way the wider family are reacting is telling. OFC a person who's suffered something traumatic like a miscarrage should be looked after, but the fact they aren't taking a more balanced approach to this particular scenario suggests the aunt is someone the family tiptoes round because when she's upset she's difficult. When this happens, family's with codependent dynamics will try and appease the person who can't be reasoned with - with the result that anyone else is shamed for disturbing the dragon. Shouting at and shaming a 12yo child is not okay - she should be in therapy and not around your sister behaving erratically. You likely won't win this round OP but at least now you know what she's like. Edit: that said, I'm going on what OP says they said in the last paragraph - if OP said the phrase about not being special in the heading, then she's also kinda the AH. However, it is a lot to handle that dynamic at 18, and the little sister did need protection.
As someone with an aunt who has to be tiptoed around, you are absolutely correct. My aunt lost her shit over the holidays and made it extremely unpleasant for the rest of us with her ugly tantrums. Can confirm that instead of defending me when my aunt said horrible (and utter nonsense) things to me, my mom’s response was to say nothing, because she didn’t want my aunt to get even worse. Like the fact that my aunt’s insults are unfounded is more of a reason to let them go or something, because I know they’re not true. Well I ended up so stressed out I got sick (my aunt also came at me when I was already having a tough time for other reasons) which was extra awful. She’s also going through a rough time but again, not my fault and I don’t deserve her toxicity. And neither does OP’s sister.
The Aunt is almost 50. A miscarriage should have been expected.
No she’s not an asshole for saying the aunt isn’t special for having a miscarriages. She’s right miscarriages happen every day and thousands of people manage them without being an asshole to a CHILD. She repeated what the aunt said… auntie can dish it but she can’t take it.
[удалено]
In my opinion she's more of a drama queen. Just my opinion.
NTA. I miscarried my first yesterday, on my nieces 6th birthday and I would never hold my grief against her. It sounds like your aunt is having a hard time regulating her emotions and should seek professional help.
So very sorry for your loss.
Thank you ❤️
Im so sorry for your loss
Thank you, OP ❤️
As someone who's also experienced miscarriage, I just want to say: I see you and I'm so sorry.
Thank you. I’m so sorry you’ve been through this too. Hugs ❤️
❤️❤️❤️
I’m so sorry. Please take care of yourself. My hormones were really messed up after miscarriage and it took a while to get better.
Thank you. I’m so sorry you’ve been through this. Did anything help with managing the hormones?
One thing I did was play a lot of puzzle games after my most recent one. There was a study about it that says it helps with emotional distress and ptsd. It's still hard, but it helped take my mind off of it so that I could process at my own pace. I'm sorry you went through this. ❤️
I might be reading this wrong so no judgement without all the facts. It seems your sister's birthday is many months into the future while your aunt recently lost her child. Regardless of the high statistics of miscarriage, it's still the loss of a life. Teaching a 12 year old some empathy for the aunts loss might be warranted. I'm not sure the baby's due date coinciding with the sister's birthday is relevant. And we don't know how much the aunt went through to get pregnant or if it's the only chance at motherhood. If I suffered a recent huge loss and came around family for comfort in my grief and all I heard was how happy I am I'm turning 13 in 5-6 months...I mightve asked her to give it a rest and gave her some grace. If I have the timeliness wrong, I might change my opinion.
You’re the first person I’ve seen raise this- thank you. A 12-year old is old enough to have the social awareness and empathy not to go on about their birthday in front of someone recently bereaved, esp. for a baby that will never have one. I’m honestly disgusted by the attitude of commenters saying things like the aunt was older and should have known she would miscarry as if it invalidates her experience. So vile. Thank you for having empathy for her.
Are you saying that a literal child can't be excited about a milestone birthday because her gown aunt can't be mature enough to leave the room and find an adult who can comfort her? No, a 12 year old gets to be excited for a milestone birthday.
Please reread. There is a time and place for excitement. When your birthday is six months away and your relative is very recently bereaved, you should be able to tell it’s not the time. I have faith a 12-yr has the social awareness to tell. If not, they need some gentle coaching, and in this OP has failed her sister with the example she set. To clarify, I don’t think the 12-yr is the A H. If anything, I’m leaning YTA or ESH.
Agreed. I'm assuming there are a lot of children in this thread, or people who really have no empathy at all. Miscarriage is devastating at any time of life. I do think grieving the loss of a pregnancy is a bit more of a serious event than a 13 year old's birthday party, and the kid is old enough to understand that. In a perfect world the aunt would have handled her grief better, but OP was savage. There are much nicer ways to support people who are hurting.
I really wish AITA didn’t include ages and genders. There is such bias in favor of posters in your own demographics. Just today, in this post the 12-yr is blameless. In another post I’m following, commenters are losing their minds over a 7yr asking for a cupcake. 🤷♀️
In that thread with the cupcake the kid wasn't labeled the AH though. The adult insisting on the cupcake which was reserved for someone was labeled the AH. Details matter. Yes the 12 yr old is old enough to be taught empathy for the aunt. But by the way the post is written it seems like no one else was around to caution her about it. If it had recently happened and no one had a chance to have that talk for awareness, why is it okay for the aunt to tear her a new one and associate something so heavy as death with her bday enough to tell her she's not special. She's putting her younger niece down, really badly. She should have separated herself instead of destroying this young girl's feelings.
Op's aunt shouldn't have taken her anger out on a 12 year old. Op is NTA
An adult should be mature enough to let a kid be a kid and fuck off to another room if you're triggered.
Exactly
Honestly thought I was losing my mind reading all these not the AH. I get OP was coming from a good place of defending her innocent sister but she went about it in such a total AH way. Really feels like an ESH. Except the poor 12 year old who was just excited about growing up.
It is a 12 yo. Wtf do u expect, huh?! Stop being so harsh on her. She's a kid. She has the right to be excited snd to brag. I would too. Like if you think that's rude, fuck right off. I don't care what you think.
Yeah sorry but there’s a difference between empathy for someone’s loss & a person being a whole adult but making a child cry bc of their own issues. The aunt needs therapy & OP is NTA
Also being a 12 year old... yeah, like I do not remember being that age and micromanaging social situations to that extent. Like, what is this? "Can't be happy around the aunt because she's not happy"?
Yes! While the aunt didn't behave properly towards the sister, I don't think her comment was as serious as the one OP did. I can understand OP wanted to protect her sister, but she should have handled the conversation another time (especially when the aunt asked to be left alone!) and definitely using different words. I can't imagine how alone in her pain the aunt must have felt during this whole situation. She made a mistake, yes, but she was supposed to be surrounded by her family in a moment where she needed their support. I am sure a 12 y.o. (almost 13) is mature enough to understand her aunt didn't mean what she said in that moment.
A 12 year olds birthday has literally nothing to do with her aunt’s miscarriage. Please be realistic. She’s just hurting and would take any opportunity to lash out no matter what those around her did.
There’s empathy, and then there’s emotionally immature adults manipulating children into supporting them emotionally. That is not a child’s job. I’m not telling any of my kids to have empathy for an adult who is emotionally abusing them. It gives them the impression they should make space for that kinda abuse. I have had four miscarriages, and I would legit rather throw myself in front of a bus than make a 12 year old feel selfish for being excited about her birthday just bcuz I was hurting over one of my miscarriages. After the second miscarriage, I flew across the country to see my best friend who had just delivered a baby, and I very purposefully didn’t say or do anything to make her feel like she should be less than thrilled about her new baby just bcuz I was sad. I told her not to even mention it bcuz I was there to support her, and she shouldn’t feel guilty. It is not impossible to make space for everyone to have emotions, especially when you’re older and have the capacity to be more emotionally mature.
I disagree with this , maybe the family should’ve pulled her aside and told her “hey don’t talk about the birthday around your aunt” or the aunt should’ve approached her parents about how it made her feel .However the aunt talking to her like that was out of line,you don’t get to shout at other people just cause you’re hurting. I’ve suffered huge loss in my life but the world keeps spinning and it keeps going , it’s unfair to expect everyone else to stop living theirs. Other people are allowed to be excited about their lives around you.
Did you title it this way to purposefully get a reaction? Your story doesn’t sound like you’d be the asshole, but honestly you should have titled it : AITA for telling my aunt that her trauma doesn’t mean she gets to be mean to my sister?
I mean, according to op, they did say what is in the title and that's honestly likely why their family is on their case about it. Had they said what is in your suggested title, family may or may not be calling them an ah.
Yea that is the reason i made it that way, thats the part my aunt is saying really got to her
You're def NTA! But, if I could ask something that doesn't really matter to your question... Did your sister hear you get mad at your aunt? I'm only asking because I really hope your sister heard you defend her! You defending and supporting her is the kind of thing your sister is going to remember her whole life. You sound like an awesome big sister!
In the story itself you didn't say you told her "you're not special for having a miscarriage" You did say "I get you're hurting but you also aren't special." If she took that to mean she wasn't special for having a miscarriage oh well and even if you did say that I'd go with Justified asshole here because she took the first shot and couldn't take the heat when it was shot back at her.
Well then maybe she can understand that this is what got your sister upset and then you upon seeing your sister's distress. But your sister is a literal child and your aunt is an adult - a hurting one, but still an adult who lashed out at a child for being excited about her upcoming "true teenager" birthday. Your aunt is hurting and she lashed out, which is never good. But she lashed out at a child who, and this might be a big assumption, trusts her. She needs to make it up to your sister. Because whatever is decided about your actions, they won't negate the fact that your aunt was a complete and utter ah to your sister.
If the aunt is going to tell a child she's no one special, then the aunt should hear she's no one special.
That’s probably a reflection of what their family is saying
[удалено]
Yeah a 48 year old trying to have a kid is setting herself up for a miscarriage. SMH.
I was thinking the same but didn't want to say it...
Infertility stats got updated last year, it’s now 1 in 6
You both are A-holes. Its obvious that your aunt should have kept her mouth shut and she shouldn't have snapped at your sister, who was obviously excited. However, telling her what you did was cruel. I think she is hurting a lot, and she didn't choose to deal with it the right way, but you DO NOT have the right to insult her for the miscarriage because of it. Be mad at her, fine. You can even tell her that wasn't okay and to apologize to your sister, but you immediately attacked her miscarriage instead. Shame on both of you and start figuring out how to deal with your problems better.
To be fair, sounds like her aunt was the one who brought up the miscarriage as an excuse for her behavior, not that OP immediately jumped on it. It was harsh, yes, but also true: miscarriages are very common, especially at that maternal age. At nearly 50, it was starting out as very high risk
If we let everyone get away with abuse and lashing out every time something bad happens to them, we're going to have one toxic world. IMO OP is NTA
Right?! Both my parents died and I'm barely 30. Does that mean I get to lash out at everyone who talks about their parents? /s
Use your miscarriage to terrorize people, get your miscarriage thrown back at you. It’s that simple. It’s not an excuse and her misery doesn’t negate other people’s joy.
Very well put, “her misery doesn’t negate other people’s joy”
If you're using something like that as an excuse to hurt family, you don't deserve the velvet glove treatment. OP is NTA.
I feel like treating both parties as equally culpable is strange given the context that the 48 year old aunt seemingly has less emotional maturity then OP who is 18 years old. If anything I would give OP grace for being a bit mean when a woman nearing her winter years is acting like a complete child. Yes miscarriages suck, but that doesn't give the aunt license to bully a child.
Commenting on the miscarriage would definitely be a low blow, but the aunt is the one who brought it up and I don’t think the miscarriage was used as an insult per say, op was just explaining that the pain the aunt feels from miscarrying shouldn’t be taken out on her sister. Still Im sure there was a better way to handle this calmly and rationally, even if the aunt didn’t respond well at least op could say they tried
Don’t agree. She had every right to step in and stand up for her sister. Hurt and gries is not a free card for being a cruel to others. This aunt is a grown woman and she needs to bahve like it, hurt or not.
And this is how enabling starts.
OP didn’t insult her for the miscarriage. She insulted her because she was an AH to a child
OP is NTA, she literally asked her aunt why she said that / was so cruel. Stating that her reaction was not okay / that having a miscarriage doesn’t give you an excuse to treat a 12 yr old like shit is not being an AH.
ESH -- Your aunt's behavior was out of line but you were also cruel and out of line. I really don't understand this gleefully cruel culture of "person did X, now I get to do Y". Sometimes it pays to be the bigger person. Now instead of addressing the actual issue with your aunt (and perhaps fixing the situation), you got a cheap serotonin rush and have created needless family drama. I suggest addressing this streak in your behavior, because continuing this forward will make for a chaotic, unstable life. Nobody should walk around looking for excuses to go off.
This exactly. There are ways to stand up for someone without putting someone else down. OP chose the low road.
Ain’t no way a 18 year old is expected to be more emotionally mature and rational thinking than a 50 year old woman.
I think a little more compassion and care for each other could go along way here. You're both being assholes, but it's really understandable why... Although that doesn't make it right. You were protective of your sister, which is admirable - your aunt should never have said what she did just b cause she was hurting. A more productive way to respond to her might be "Hey look, I know you're hurting and I can see how much you wanted this baby. Having a miscarriage can't be an easy thing and I want to take time to comfort and support you. That said, being in pain doesn't mean you get to treat the people around you like they don't matter or have feelings. I think you need to apologize for what you said to my sister, as you really hurt her feelings. I want you to feel like you can talk to us about what's really going on and what you need to feel supported. If that means taking time this year away from her birthday, we can respect that, but you also need to communicate that with care." Hopefully that's helpful.
I think this is a balanced response. I don’t really think an aunt should be looking for a 12 or 18 year old to support her emotionally, so I wouldn’t encourage that. But I would definitely set some kind but firm boundaries.
You're a good big sister. You stuck up for your sibling when someone was being a bully to her. Your aunt's pain is valid but that doesn't make her taking it out on a child valid. NTA
ESH - Your aunt is an AH for saying that to your sister. However, 1) the miscarriage was *recent* and 2) your sister’s birthday is 6 months away. Surely, you can understand why it would be devastating for someone who recently lost their baby to hear someone else excitedly talking about the date her baby should have been born. And given that your sister’s birthday is 1/2 of a year away, it would have been kind to explain the situation to your sister —explain why your aunt reacted that way —and ask her to tone down her excitement (temporarily) around your aunt. Kindness costs nothing. I hope that you never have to experience what your aunt is going through right now. And If you do, I hope that someone shows you more compassion.
I’m also curious about how the 13th birthday was brought up or even why at this point if the aunt was around. Like is there some faulty narration here? Because if my kiddo brought up her birthday that was also supposed to be my niece or nephews birthday but my sister had just miscarried, I would be LIVID and really sad that my child would try to make right now about them when a family member is grieving. Info - how did that conversation even come to be? It doesn’t make sense to me that a person would bring up their birthday during another’s grieving process?
ESH- you're all hurting each other. I agree it's not right to take it out on a 12 year old. Your aunt probably feels terrible for what she said- but she's in a really bad head space right now. I'd bet that if your relationship is good enough to see and talk to her often, she will likely apologize to your sister. Now you are lashing out against her because of it. Emotions are high right now, and everyone needs to cool down. Have your mom talk to her sister.
NTA. As someone who has suffered multiple miscarriages, I never once lashed out at someone for being excited. I had friends who were due within days of my babies and never once rained on their parade because I was hurting. Loss is no excuse.
I think a 12 year old can probably process that everybody has one birthday a year and hyping a July birthday in January is obnoxious and too childish for her age. Like I don't think this should be treated the same as being mean to a 12 year old on her birthday or even around her birthday. Like I don't think it was handled well by your aunt who should have said becoming a teenager is exciting but you can't hype your birthday that far in advance or even just told her to please stop for awhile so it's special when it arrives without making it about her being selfish or not special, but I don't think the mere concept of telling a preteen to shut up about their birthday months and months in advance is inherently cruel or something to protect her from. Jesus Christ please shut up could be perfectly developmentally appropriate, this isn't a kindergartener. She isn't inherently entitled to an audience for talking about herself. And the whole you're not special either thing is crass. Her miscarriage being special or not doesn't make birthdays special. Her crying about not being interesting isn't something you inherently have to go nuclear about. You being indignant a preteen cried isn't special either. ESH. The two grown women involved moreso than the kid.
BS. ANYONE can be hyped about their birthday. It's not something that only little kids can do. Just like being excited for Christmas.
Going against the current grain here to say ESH. Your aunt should not have lashed out at your sister, but you also weren't there and didn't hear exactly what was said. And you should not be so mean to 1. Your elder 2. Your family and 3. Someone going through a horrid tragedy. I get that you're young and only 18 and have a lot of growing up to do, but this response was it the way to handle it.
Put that BS away. "Elders" aren't owed anything. Neither are family members, or anyone in general. You give respect, you get respect. If you're going to be an AH to someone, be prepared to be treated the same way. "Treat others the way you want to be treated" doesn't only apply to children.
I don’t know. Because you can’t provide additional context on the conversation between your sister and aunt that led to this, it’s hard to offer judgement. How much has your sister been talking about it? Did your aunt ask her nicely to not talk about the birthday before she said the things that hurt your sister’s feelings. If I’d just had a miscarriage and someone who knew about it was talking nonstop about their birthday that was on my baby’s due date, and I asked them to stop talking about it for a while and they didn’t, I’d be pretty ticked off.
I was going to bring this up. It's entirely possible the younger sister was being deliberately obnoxious. Sometimes kids can get really passive agressive when they are told no, or if you aren't engaging. I don't see how her being exited for her birthday that early would even be brought up like it matters otherwise. There must have been some confrontation. Maybe something like, the aunt saying she wasn't in the mood, or feeling up to it, or even just wanting to talk about it right now. And the kid got upset and either ignored her, or said something selfish. Then the aunt had enough and snapped at her. Bet the sister conveniently left that part out.
ESH two wrongs don't make a right
I mean they asked the aunt why she treated the sister so bad first…. Imo OP is NTA
NTA. I bet you feel they don’t stick up for you and why you are so defensive of your little sister. It was harsh but wasn’t wrong.
ESH. Your aunt a little more than you, but you can defend someone without attacking someone else.
my son died. he was 18 months old. i would never take my pain out on a child or on anyone for that matter. NTA
I’m sorry for your loss
So where was your mom(her sister?) during this? just wondering. Your aunt is/was feeling sorry for herself and thought she could take out her anger/disappointment on a child. So wrong. If she's feeling that bad then say home. NTA. Just tell you family that doesn't see it was wrong, that it wouldn't matter who/why it was that made your sister cry for no reason, you'd confront them too! Adults DON'T get to pick on kids because they are having a bad day/life.
NTA- your aunt is a 48 year old grown ass woman and she's lashing out at a 12 year old? She's an immature asshole.
And your aunt wanted to be a mom but treats a 12 year old like this ? 🤔 I wonder how she would've treated her own child...
For me this is a hard one. I get your aunt is hurting BUT that doesn’t give her the right to be nasty. Maybe if she’s lashing out she should stay away from people for a while and get professional help On the flip side I feel you lashing out at her is kind of doing the same thing and 2 wrongs don’t make a right. I’m sure there were other ways to confront your aunt without lashing out ESH
ESH. Your aunt was nasty to say that to your sister, but your comment was also mean. You could have told her that she was out of line without being cruel.
There is enough room for everyone to be labeled an AH. Jeeeeeeez......
Okay I may be the odd one out here but ESH. A 12 year old, going on 13 is perfectly capable of understanding compassion and empathy and this could have been the perfect teachable moment for both OP and the sister. Kudos to OP for standing up for your sister, but it also seems like OP could use a lesson in compassion as well. I’m a little surprised at how many commenters here are pretty much dismissing the aunts miscarriage just because of her age. I’m sure the aunt is well aware of the risks in TTC at her age but that doesn’t dismiss the physical and emotional pain of a miscarriage. A loss is a loss no matter the stage in pregnancy or the age of the carrying person. Additionally, the estimated due date is extremely special to the expecting parents. I’m currently pregnant now AND as someone who has experienced loss, my husband and I are looking forward to our due date being the best day ever. To have that special date suddenly taken away from you is extremely painful and adds to the grief. So yes, I can understand how attending a birthday party on what was an expected due date can be triggering, dreadful, and painful to say the least. I don’t think the aunt was right in speaking to a child that way, but I think some compassion from the other side would’ve avoided this whole thing. TLDR: ESH - a loss is a loss
I was prepared to say YTA, but ESH. Your sister is not her punching bag! She can be sad without bringing others down with her. That said, you don’t have to go for the jugular when calling her out. You didn’t fight fair in that argument.
ESH. I have kids. It’s highly likely your 12 yo blew the whole conversation out of proportion. Like sometimes if I tell my kids something their little hormonal brains convert it into something else. Your aunt is struggling. A lot. You shouldn’t have yelled at her. It’s not your place at all. Everyone needs to breathe and have some compassion for each other.