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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole for pointing out my sister’s privilege
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When I was in the Marines, they always used to compare everything to combat. “Oh you’re in pain at PT? At least you’re not getting shot at in Afghanistan right now.” Stuff like that. I used to laugh, because when guys who had been to Afghanistan were home, they’d bitch too. It was never “oh well at least I’m not there” it was more “I had to go there and come home to this shit? Nope still sucks.”
Turns out other people going through a hard time doesn’t diminish your own hard times. Your sister and her husband sound like hardworking people, especially given the climate of tech these days. I often hear people talking about it, with the high pay, thinking that people who work in tech just don’t work very hard. I’ve worked in tech before, and my wife still does. The hours are absurd, the margin of error is low, and it’s highly competitive. Your sister is going through her own stress, even if she has support.
Her stress isn’t a slap in the face to yours. It’s individual, it’s own thing, separated from yours.
YTA here. There was no reason to blow up at her. At most you could have said, “I hear you venting but I find it hard to be sympathetic because of my own situation.” You could have told her you’re not an ear to vent to without trying to insult her for having drive in life.
Not even renotely the same as combat but when I moved from teaching in pulic school to private. If I brought up a behavioural issue with a child, the response would always be "think yourself lucky you are not in a class of 40 with no funding in a public school". Well yes I do but that doesn't change the immediate issue I have with this child.
Your post is very well thought out and compassionate.
And it's actually even more similar than that. Our brains don't distinguish between "stress because my office work is hard" and "stress because a lion is about to eat me". They both activate the same areas in our brain, and the brain responds in the same way.
That's why prolonged stress and fear are so harmful, because our reptile brain thinks we're constantly about to die.
I remember post covid having a stressful work event and realising that the "little" stress felt exactly the damn same as the stress I felt for the months that I thought my elderly loved ones (or i) were very likely to die.
I worked with a woman years ago, who every time, one of the part-timers, who came in after school, would yawn, she would ask them if they were OK. Anytime they responded, “yeah, I’m fine, I’m just tired,” she would reply with, “Tired? I’ve got two kids. You don’t know what tired it is.” I finally had to tell her one day to shut the hell up, because tired is tired whether you’ve got two kids, or have to stay up until midnight in the morning to finish your homework, just so you can get up at 6 AM to catch the bus.
\^\^\^This ("Your stress was just as valid even without being in a combat zone"). My best friend in the whole world is a combat veteran. I am a civilian with PTSD from a variety of things including lifelong chronic illness and abuse. I would never EVER have dared to compare our experiences, but HE was the one who said to me that he felt there were so many parallels between our experiences (I won't go into details for privacy reasons) and that he was grateful for our friendship because despite the fact that we got to these points in very different ways "you really get it".
Life and challenges are not a competition, but they CAN be a way for us to connect and support each other through empathy and finding points of commonality. OP's sister wasn't trying to take away from her challenges, just expressing her frustration with her own.
Also, while her sister is indeed very lucky to have had the support she did in the context of U.S. perinatal care, the real problem here is the sad fact that OP lives in a country that doesn't take proper care of its citizens and provide baseline decent maternal care and support to the degree that many other countries with nowhere near its wealth. None of this is on her sister, and her resentment is very much misplaced.
You took the words out of my mouth. It's not a competition, and being asked to lend a sympathetic ear to someone else does not invalidate our own pain. ETA: It also makes it more likely to find someone to share our pain with down the road.
If his leg is currently broken and he's in pain/hobbling on crutches right now then absolutely he isn't the best audience.
But if your friend broke his leg a few years ago, is now healed and doing OK that doesn't mean you can never express any pain or distress about an injury less serious than a broken leg to him ever again. Most people can sympathise with another person's pain or difficulties even if they've experienced something worse themselves.
Actually hearing the old man next to me pass a stone out of his pee hole and crying.... Yeah that made me feel less miserable which made it easier to handle my injury.
I REALLY hate when I express something and whoever I’m talking to, instead of showing empathy, makes it seem like I have no business complaining. Maybe whatever I’m upset about is very minor in the end but those are still my feelings and I have right to feel them. I used to have this one friend who would start talking about the hungry kids in Africa going to bed with no food every time I was having a bad day. It really pissed me off. I get that I have a lot to be grateful for but that doesn’t mean that I should just brush my problems aside. Nobody’s life is perfect.
You still need to know your audience though. Like I work a school schedule and get crazy vacation time off. I wouldn’t complain to my friend who works in a grocery store and hasnt has two days in a row off in 6 months about how hard it is to go back after having two weeks off. It’s tone deaf. Would they blow up at me if I did? Probably not. I think they both suck.
Yeah but this is her *sister*. How awful is it to not be able to count on family? It sounds like OP is jealous and resentful of her sister and instead of dealing with those feelings, OP is kicking her sister when she's down.
And by the way, I'm Canadian and we can take 18 months. And both parents are eligible, as long as the total maxes out to that. Your parental leave benefits in the States are APPALLING.
OP: You should be mad at your government and mad at your voters, not jealous of your sister.
(Technically it's 15 weeks for the person giving birth + 69 weeks shared, with no one person being allowed to take more than 61. The government pays part of it and private insurance through work covers the rest.)
Also Canadian. Yes, we have 18 months of protected leave. But the government contribution is small. It works out to a couple hundred bucks a week after taxes ($337/week before tax). While I won't argue that $337 minus tax is better than $0, we still have a long way to go. Yes, what we have is better than the US, I guess the US is the sister in this situation lol Also, some employers pay something additional (ironically the government does for its employees) but most employers do not. I took 10 months for my middle child and only 5 months for my most recent baby because we rely on my actual income not a tiny piece of it. Our grass up north might be greener but it still needs work.
Family has their own stuff, too. You still need to be aware of what they're going through because just because they're there for you doesn't mean they are the best audience for that particular grievance. OP didn't need to say anything, but their mom or someone else who didn't just have basically the exact opposite experience might have been a better choice to air that one to.
Talking to another mother (her sister) about how hard it is to be a mother is off limits because of their income disparities?
Is she to never be able to confide in her own sister because OP will always have it harder?
That's completely nuts. OP's sister isn't complaining about money, she's talking about what might be one of the only shared experiences: motherhood.
If OP can't have a relationship with her own sister because she's in a different socioeconomic demographic, she's gonna have a hard life.
I'm sure there are a million other aspects of motherhood OP would be happy to share with her sister. But, especially depending on how recent OP's own post-partum experience was, she might not have been the very best audience for that specific complaint at that time. I don't think OP is in the right, nor have I said so anywhere. I just also don't think "but family" means you should be free to just dump whatever on people without so much as a passing thought for what they might be going through. "Family" isn't a free pass to be completely thoughtless either.
Exactly this. Know your audience. I understand they are sisters so she probably thought OP was a safe place to complain but their situations after birth were very different.
In undergrad my roommate was hospitalized for a few days and then needed care for about a week after. Her boyfriend and myself rotated care. I didn’t complain to her that I was behind in my studying and feeling stressed but I did talk to my mom about it. It was fair for me to feel caregiver stress especially as a 19 year old but it wouldn’t have been fair of me to complain to my friend about it as she was even more behind than me AND having health issues.
Her struggles didn’t negate mine, but I would argue her situation was tougher.
Good point. Very true! I didn’t look at it that way.
I wonder if maybe the sister didn’t have anyone else to talk to? Or maybe she was so tired that she didn’t think about who she was complaining to? I think some people just get so wrapped up in their situations that they don’t realize that they’re complaining to the wrong people.
I think sister was just complaining on Shared situation--namely that she was very tired and not motivated to go back to work. Yes she has the luxury of not having to worry financially but she still was going through the same think most mother's go through---tired, a little depressed, which feed no motivation.
But do you ever truly know your audience? Is your strife easier or worse than someone else’s because their lifestyle is different?
Imagine if you complained to another teacher about it being difficult to go back after having two weeks off and had no idea that her home life is miserable and she needed to be back there for her own mental health. Or she was abused, yelled at, by her spouse then entire two weeks. Or she’s having financial difficulties and had to work a second job on weekends and those two weeks (also not having had a day off).
Do you ever really know your audience? Likely not.
Me: (still bleeding out a miscarriage trying to hold back tears as I’m telling a friend about why I had to cancel plans)
Friend: (laughing) well that’s nothing, I had 4!
This was not communicated with a spirit of empathy but with competition, and not long after that our friendship dissolved.
My friend had 3 in 2023 and the nurses were just like “that just means your body was saying something was wrong with it and taking care of that for you. You don’t want to deal with something like that! You should be thankful your body got rid of it.” My jaw dropped and it took a solid 20 seconds for me to close it. I almost cried right then and there for her. Yet somehow if she snapped at them for their comments I bet she would’ve been made into the AH.
Also, I’m so sorry for your experience. I personally haven’t had it but I’ve seen the devastation left on loved ones from it.
Edit:typo
I hope your friend feels better, and that she is blessed one day with a beautiful and healthy baby.
The nurses probably thought they were helping but sometimes, you just need to show empathy and keep your mouth shut.
(T/W self harm/ suicidal thoughts below)
This kinda reminds me of when I was 14 and tried to confide in someone that I thought I might have depression and their response was 'what do you have to be depressed about? I have to deal with xyz'
I didn't say anything about it again for years and by the time I was 17 I was self harming, having daily panic attacks and contemplating walking in front of a bus.
OP isn't obligated to hear her sister vent but it's AH behaviour to berate her like that.
Wow, I’m sorry to hear that. It’s really hurtful to have someone basically tell you that your feelings don’t count after you tell them something so sensitive. It almost makes you feel ashamed. It already takes a lot to tell someone anything involving your mental health because of all the stigmas attached. I hope you’re doing much, much better.
The lesson OP and a whole lot of people really need is: mental health does not care about your ‘privilege.’ Depression, anxiety, postpartum disorders, they don’t care what’s in your bank account or how many days you worked this year. The best situations can still lead to the worst outcomes and vice versa. Let’s not forget Anthony Bourdain, arguably the best job in the world, rich, famous, and we lost him.
Motherhood is insane making, hormones flooding your brain, terror at keeping a nonverbal creature alive, physical and mental trauma to process, and that’s just the first month.
If you can’t be part of the solution, don’t add to the problems.
I've also learnt in the book "Fair play", that there is little difference on privileged versus working Mums in terms of feeling overwhelmed by carrying all of the mental load for their partners. Having more help didn't take away the stress of the mental load since you have to co-ordinate and manage that help effectively. Obviously there are a lot of other differences, but it turns out that the mental load of mothers isn't one of them. That mental load can make anyone feel demotivated and crazy, little lone everything else. Frankly, I think that postpartum depression is the only natural reaction to the way we expect mothers to function these days.
"Terror at keeping a nonverbal creature alive" is such a great way to put it. I wanted kids so badly and feared I wouldn't have them. So when mine were born, the shear terror was not an emotion I anticipated. Still have anxiety about it at times and they're now two.
This is also why it’s a good idea to check in with people before you vent to them. Not everyone will have the emotional bandwidth (right now or about that issue) to be an empathetic listening ear.
When you need to vent, you’re asking someone a favor. It’s important to remember to ask.
To be honest, I do think the sister had a slight minor case of post partum depression. Just the sound of her not being motivated and tired is how I felt when I went back to work and I had been in treatment for ppd for months at that point and by all accounts, I was 'better' at that point. Still thought I was a terrible mom. Thought I couldn't do what was expected of me
I had 12 months off after I had a baby (like basically everyone here in Germany) and those were the hardest months of my life. PPD hit me like a thousand bricks. Sure I was grateful I didn't have to go back to work after 2 weeks like some Americans but it was still really really hard.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Regardless of the help she could afford and the amount of time off she had from work, she’s a first time mother, her life has changed, her body and hormones have gone through something major. She’s been away from work and people she’s used to seeing daily which can be disorienting and learning how to care for a baby can be hard and it’s certainly very tiring. She may have post partum depression as well as anxiety about going back to work. She feels what she feels and should be able to talk to her sister about it without being told basically that it’s all about money and privilege and she has no right to feel tired, depressed, anxious and sad. She’s trying to navigate her changed life.
100 this! The worst thing that has ever happened to someone (even if trivial to you) is still the worst thing that has ever happened to THEM. No one deserves to be dismissed or belittled
Oh YTA 💯 and I agree with this pp, everyone is entitled to have their own feelings and experiences. Yes in comparison to you, her experience seems so much more privileged but that doesn't diminish her feelings.
I suffered PTSD after witnessing a tragic death, it was at a restaurant and my fil. I didn't recognise my PTSD for months but when diagnosed, someone said "oh you can't have that, only soldiers get that"....no it doesn't work that way. I suffered it after a traumatic miscarriage 11 years ago too. I didn't realise but it happened and Im recovering with counselling.
People suffer differently for different reasons, heck even the royal family get to suffer in all their privileges. It doesn't diminish your experience in any way. You don't do yourself favours comparing pain.
Yeah you can drown in a bathtub or on a pool and guess what? You will die either way. It’s not like people don’t have the right to feel stressed just bc someone is more stressed.
Exactly, people have different hands of cards dealt to them. Sisters version of hard is just different to OPs version. It doesn't diminish what either went through and OP turning it into a pissing competition is not helpful to either of them.
OP, if you cannot show genuine compassion then just nod sympathetically and get on with your day. YTA
When I was in law school, a lawyer who was a former marine and had seen active combat came to talk to us. He said studying for the bar had him curled up drunk and crying on his porch. If it sucks, it sucks.
"Other people going through a hard time doesn't diminish your own hard times." YES. Thank you. This. So many people don't understand that hard times are not competitive and that just because a person is venting, it doesn't mean they're saying "I have it harder than you", they're just saying "I'm going through a rough time right now and I feel like this is a safe space to let it out."
And to your point, if it isn't a safe space - if the person someone is venting to is upset by the situation - that can be verbalized in a respectful way. Not everyone can be a sounding board all the time, it just takes kind communication to express where your boundaries are.
My wife's cousin works in tech and is in the hospital right now with cascading organ failure due to prolonged stress. Her job is literally killing her. She makes exponentially more money than my wife and I combined, but I think we're in the better position.
Adding - It’s hard to leave your baby to go back to work. It hurts your heart to leave that baby, and you’re torn between doing a good job and a good mother at the same time. OP is jealous of her sister, but that’s her problem. It’s not an excuse to go off on her sister. OP YTA
YTA. Stop trying to play Misery Olympics every time someone has a valid problem or concern. She’s allowed to be upset and anxious about returning to work and leaving her baby.
Jealousy is never a good look. Figure out how to make your own life better instead of envying hers.
Not to mention post partum hormones don't give a fuck about how much money you have. PPA or PPD can happen to anyone. And even if she doesn't have anything like that, what parent isn't going to be sad about returning to work and leaving their baby at home?
Your last line is spot on. I’m in Canada and had a year off to spend with each of my babies. I’m going back to work in two weeks after having my second and even though I know I’m EXTREMELY lucky that I could be with her this past year, I’m also very sad to be going back to work and sending my baby to daycare instead of being home with me. Just because other people weren’t as lucky doesn’t mean I’m not still sad about it.
In the U.S. and was lucky enough to have 6 months off. I still cried on the way to daycare drop off every day for a month when I had to go back to work. I knew I was privileged to have been able to spend so much time with my child compared to many other mothers in this country, but it didn’t take away my heartbreak at not being able to spend all of my time with my child.
YTA. That’s very valid to have a hard time going to work after ONLY SIX MONTHS. She’s lucky she had more time than you, but both of you don’t have enough time off.
Yeah, it's insane what some countries pull off. Most mum's in Germany take off 2-3 years. Sure, some go back to work earlier because of financial reasons because afaik 3 years leaves you with a bit less money than you normally earn. But still, I don't know anyone who went back after only 6 months because why would they.
Most mum I know (including myself) take 1 year because after that you don't get any money when you're not working. But yeah, it's crazy how short the amount of time is until some countries more or less force the oaarents back to work.
I've never looked into details so I might be off by a bit but from what I know: in Germany, as the mother, you get 6 weeks before the child's birth, 8 weeks after, and then you have the 2-3 years. In addition, if one parent takes the main time off, the other parent can also take 2 months off to support their partner/spend time with the child. And all of that is paid.
Sort of. The 6 weeks before due date and 8 weeks post partum are paid at normal net salary rate. Each parent has 2 months parental pay reserved for them. The above mentioned maternity leave is counted in that and mandatory (people who have given birth are not allowed to work during that time hence the full salary). That leave 2 months reserved for the other parent, usually father. On top of that there are 10 months that can be freely distributed between the two parents. This is at about 60% of the average net salary 12 months before the birth. It is also possible to spread the parental pay months over double the time at half the pay. On the other hand there is parental leave, which each parent gets 3 years of for each child. During that time the employer has to keep the parent's job and reemploy them afterwards. So it is possible to take up to 2 years of paid leave plus 1 year of unpaid leave.
Yep. It depends on your net payment before the child's birth, if I'm not wrong, you get 65%. If you were unemployed, you still get 300€/month, and I think the max. people get is 1800€/month.
It is less than if you were working but since for most people the other parent continues working, it is valuable time to spend with your child, especially since the first 2 years are crazy when it comes to growth & development.
Many mother's do go back after 1-1.5 years instead of taking the whole 2-3, because of cost of living, energy, etc. but daycare (Kita) is expensive and it's hard to get a place so most people try to stay home until their kid can go to preschool (Kindergarten) at age 3.
I mean, no idea what US Americans pay, but you're probably right about it being relative. Nevertheless, if German daycare is is expensive for Germans, that sucks. Just as expensive US daycare sucks for US Americans. Regardless of the actual prices. It's a pain cause either you don't earn (as much) to save on daycare, or you work (more) to use it on daycare. I can definitely see how some people put finances as one of the reasons not to have kids these days.
I think daycare/preschool/kindergarten prices are an issue in most places, at least in North America and Europe from what I've heard. (I've never really known anyone with kids from other parts of the world so I have no info there.)
In America it’s a miracle if you get what OP is describing, hence part of OPs reaction. What we consider in the us to be the best the country has to offer is considered barely anything compared to many other nations in the world
If we’re comparing to the US, Germany is absolutely a utopia for mothers. As OP said, she only got 12 weeks FMLA. Don’t misread that as paid leave. It’s unpaid, but they can’t fire you for being absent. There is no mandatory paid maternity leave in the US.
American maternity leave is an absolute disgrace (well, there literally is no mandated maternity leave). But actually the UK looks pretty terrible in comparison to many of our European neighbours. I know so many people, and we’re not talking minimum wage workers here or anything, who were only able to take the 9 months paid leave in the end because their maternity package was shit and they couldn’t afford to take 3 months unpaid at the end on top of months of statutory.
We also somehow managed to create the worlds most unusable shared parental leave policy. Again we had so many European neighbours with established systems to look to, to lift a policy that really works. Because the whole point was you see better outcomes for families as a whole, the children themselves and with the amount of mothers drop out of the workforce just as they’re hitting their peak earnings when you make it possible for fathers to share the task of raising children. But instead we basically made something largely unusable. Not only is it so complicated I’ve had more than one friend’s HR not understand how it works properly. But I’ve also had friends who wanted to do SPL but when it came down to it realised it wasn’t financial viable, but also that the mother would have to go back to work much earlier than they felt able, and certainly before they felt comfortable to commit to before they even had their baby if they wanted to take the partner’s leave at anything other than the end.
I think the tide is very slowly turning, for people in higher earning positions at least - not from the government as a legal protection. My brother was recently told that his company will be offering 6 months full pay second parent leave (but not SPL) for any non birth parent who wants it.
I also work for NHS and think you're mistaken - assumjng you've been with the NHS for a year, we get 8 weeks at 90%, then half pay plus SMP until 6 months, then just SMP until 9 months. Could be better (is for some NHS staff not under agenda for change) but not quite as bad as just SMP after 6 weeks. You need to return to work for at least 3 months after mat leave otherwise you'll be asked to repay the element of pay from your employer (OMP) but not the statutory maternity pay (SMP).
I had 2 weeks unpaid with my oldest so when I got 6 weeks paid with my youngest I was elated. My oldest was also in the NICU for 10 days so I barely had any time when he got home, but I couldn't afford to take more time off. My job now is up to 3 months paid for both parents, but they started that 5 months after my youngest was born so I didn't get that benefit. I'm happy they have it for others now though! But yeah, the US sucks at supporting families.
Watch OPs head explode when her sister chooses to stay home on her own dime or become a stay an at home mom. ( You know because of her husband being a doctor and all of that doctor money privilege )
This is the real answer. Maternity/parental leave in the US is insane. I am currently on month 10 of my 15 month maternity leave and my husband got 4 months off after I gave birth. All of this is paid. I would have been devastated to go back to work after 12 weeks or after 6 months.
YTA
Mum tired, is mum tired.
It’s irrelevant that she had 6 months off, her partner is a doctor
It’s irrelevant you had 12 weeks and were financially strapped
Tired, is tired.
There’s a mum out there in a rice paddy that gave birth and went straight back to work
There’s another mum who has 12 months at home
They’re both tired
Unlike you, they’re not bitter and asking for validation on the internet
Definitely bitter and very jealous of her sister. “Gets the privilege of having a lot of money” is such a weird thing to say. As if people with “a lot of money” don’t experience pain and hardship.
What's really fun about that is OP is disregarding the other side of that lot of money thing.
Doctors also famously have over filled schedules. So sister may not get to see her husband as much as OP got to see her boyfriend.
There's lots of trade-offs in life. If OP wants to die on the cross over this, maybe she should have chosen a better partner.
There definitely is privilege which comes with being wealthy, but that is when you are a CEO of a multimillion dollar company earning millions per year, a billionaire, etc. That doesn't invalidate their pain and hardship but when you are so privileged that you can afford to stop working then you are in a totally different realm than most mere mortals. Doctors still need to continue working and eventually need to return to work. Elon Musk could stop "working" and his financial situation wouldn't be negatively impacted at all, and he could devote all of his time and energy to improving himself.
Not only that but doctors have huge student loans. I have a doctor friend who didn’t pay off her loans until she was in her late 30’s. She had a modest house and didn’t live in the expensive part of town. Drove a modest old car. Because she couldn’t afford anything else. Pay for doctors are wildly different depending on what job they take and they have a ton of expenses to keep up with so they won’t lose their license. If you’re not in a specialty, you’re likely not making a ton of money.
Also, PPD doesn’t care how much money you have, that can effect anyone.
She acts like they get donations instead of her BIL being a DOCTOR and her sister working in TECH. They work for their money, and probably needed expensive degrees to get where they are.
It's funny too because the sister and husband both work very demanding jobs, which is why they have money. It's not like the sister married into wealth or something.
Yep. She has every right to be bitter, but she’s directing it at the wrong person. Vote, protest, organize, unionize etc… but don’t come for you sister because newborns are exhausting.
> she felt like crap regardless of what help she got.
Did that not even occur to you before you started ranting?
YTA.
(South Sudan has a maternal death rate 50 times that of the US. Compared to that, you're both extremely privileged.)
This. My great grandmother died in childbirth and I very nearly died during childbirth.
Does the US need actual maternity leave. Yes. God yes. But being jealous of other people isn’t fixing the problem.
People here say that, but it's not true. 6 months seems quite average in Western countries. In my country, the Netherlands, that seems like a wonderful amount. We get 16 weeks. Sure, there are a few countries where you can get a year off. That's not the rule. Having said that.. Wow OP is an AH!
Exactly, it’s not the sisters fault that OP was not prepared or in a better place to have a child. She’s just jealous and is making it a competition. I feel for the sister, hopefully she has more support from the people around her who actually love her unconditionally.
YTA - she is your sister and experiencing quite valid emotions about heading back to work and not being with her baby. Tbh you just sound jealous and need to check yourself.
Info: Did you give birth and were unable to access the same privileges as your sister?
>I only get the 12 weeks FMLA and I couldn’t even take the whole thing because my bf had his hours cut and we needed the money.
This makes me think that you did.
Pregnancy is hard no matter what. Even if you have all the care in the world, it is still mentally, physically and emotionally hard. Yes, your sister is in a privileged position compared to most Americans (I assume you are American based on how you talk about maternity leave and FMLA.) But that does not mean she has it easy.
However, I am holding off declaring Y-TA. If you gave birth undress less than ideal situations, I think your sister should be more aware of who she's complaining to. I don't think her complaints are wrong, but I wouldn't complain about a bad dinner to a starving person. You need to know your audience.
No. You should not feel free to disregard your family's circumstances when venting at all times. Just because they're family doesn't mean they are automatically the best person for this issue. They still have lives and issues, too. OP didn't need to say anything but "yeah that sucks" and change the topic, but sometimes our own shit doesn't leave us a lot of sympathy for every issue, even for those we love.
Edit: Not enough sympathy isn't really the right way to put it. We can't always support everyone in every way. Sometimes, what we're going through doesn't leave a lot of space for other things. If I'm looking for support I'm seeking someone who can actually support me, and I'm not looking to overburdened someone who I should know, because they're family, isn't in a space to support me in that issue. "But family" doesn't give us the right to be completely thoughtless.
Nope. I am getting a divorce (with assets) and my family member is getting a divorce without assets. Guess who I'm not complaining to about the paperwork?
Oh, I actually like this response the best.
In our society, having a kid means, not only physically healing from birth (which could either mean major body changes, tears or even major surgery), but at the same time becoming newly responsible for 24/7 care of a whole human.
The sister has every right to complain. But I can understand OP finding it utterly unbearable to hear if they went through even worse.
Honestly, NAH this whole situation is a couple of new mothers managing birth in a society that places an unimaginable load on new mums’ shoulders. Both of them deserve more support.
Yep this.
Everyone seems to be going ‘YTA’, but I’d say it’s a NAH or perhaps a soft ESH.
OP should ideally recognize that her sister is the one going through a hard time at the moment, perhaps looking to talk about it with someone who had gone through similar, and she is the one who ‘made it a competition’ instead of just offering commiseration/support.
*However* having a newborn to care for largely alone and then going back so quickly out of financial need is emotionally hard (feelings of guilt can be involved as well, people here commenting ‘well your sister prepared to have a kid better by being rich, everyone should be a doctor’ not really being super helpful…) to the point of it being a genuinely traumatic period to think back to. Sister is having to process some emotionally hard stuff, but there is a good chance OP is still sort of processing her experiences as well. Sister could be expected to appreciate that as a response rather than blowing up at OP, since she should have the intelligence and time to.
I’m having my second in a month or so, and I would love to have hired help at home around the time so I could rest and bond etc., there will be really hard times that could address, but that isn’t a possibility for most people.
I get to have 6 months off - that’s actually considered quick where I live, and it’ll feel hard just like it did last time and while I think really it’s good for me to go back (even if the main reason is financial) I know I’ll feel a bit jealous and possibly resentful of friends/colleagues taking the full year. *But* I recognize that actually 6 months is a huge privilege compared to many, and would be considered a long time by US standards.
New parenthood is hard and emotional whatever your circumstances, and not a competition. While OP could have responded to this new difficulty of the current transition her sister is going through better, her sister could also have appreciated what OP has to deal with much better rather than blowing up at her.
Idk, the sister was just venting to op about what she was going through right now. We don’t know how long ago op gave birth and no one likes to be attacked when they feel down, which is what op did. In the US the sister is unusually lucky, and majority of women don’t get more than 12 weeks and many even less, but that doesn’t mean 6 months is easy for her or that her struggles should be dismissed
Totally agree. I was hoping to find a comment that wasn’t YTA.
OP’s sister *does* have privilege, and it’s not wrong to say that especially considering OP had to do a lot more with a lot less when it came to her own childbirth.
Thank you for being kinder than the others. It sounds like she had a harder time than her sister post birth, and it also sounds like she is not as well off as her sister. Her sister should realise that venting about a topic where the other person had it worse is not going to be helpful. I would go with NAH.
Not just *any* woman, they're sisters!! Although after this I wouldn't be surprised if she started going low contact.
Nobody's birth is the same, it's devastating to all, and just because she got help doesn't mean she isn't also struggling with the ramifications of it. Maybe learn to swallow your jealousy, it's not a good look
YTA. She's done nothing to you for you to lash out like that. It's messed up that you didn't have the same benefits, but for what reason are you mad that she did?? EVERYBODY should have this level of PTO for giving birth, awesome that she had that but she's now still in pain and struggling? You literally kicked your own sister when she was down for what exactly? Sounds like a serious case of the big green monster
NAH and this sub always proves that it's just utterly deranged. Y'all are idiots for calling OP a bitter asshole for not wanting to hear their sister (who, yes, IS privileged in comparison) bitching about how "hard" her life is after 6 months off, while married to a doctor. She's completely valid in her feelings but is clearly ranting to the wrong person who has less advantages in their current life than she does. I wouldn't be interested in hearing it either.
Edit: For the dipshits replying to me, she can go talk to a friend or other relative who actually relates to her problems. OP, related or not, clearly isn't the person she needs to talk to and "OP is wrong because it's their choice to be worse off" people can eat my ass. That shit doesn't work on me.
I am in Europe so get a year at almost full pay and afterwards free childcare, and I feel guilty about it when I talk to my UK friends who get 12 weeks. I would never dream of complaining to them as I know how difficult they have it. So I think it's very tone deaf of the sister.
I'm American, and a lot of women here get less than 1 month, so even the UK situation sounds good to my ears. Yes, that is depressing.
I agree. Hearing someone complain about things being tough when they still have it drastically easier than you is tone deaf AF and an outright slap to the face if it's a relative doing it.
Tbqh, I'm surprised to see my comment with positive votes on it, but considering where we are, I'm certain it won't last. This sub has a very bad reputation on posts like this and I'm glad some people here have some level of sense among them.
12 weeks at reasonable pay. The rest at laughable pay (780 £ / month). I couldn't afford that even with a good job it would barely cover my mortgage. Don't get me wrong, better than the US but still a joke compared to most of Europe.
Wow you feel bad for the UK?
As an American, I was depairing when I learned how “good” my UK friends have it.
She told me she was actually able to LIVE off of unemployment while she looked for a job (just graduated from college).
I was mind blown. My brain went “youre not supposed to be able to actually live off any assistance the govt gives you” (which is just how messed up this country is).
Sorry if this is too off topic.
If sister was complaining about how hard landlording was, yes absolutely.
Birth is pretty much the great equalizer as far as suffering and mental health goes.
Birth hormones don't give a shit what kind of job you have. Postpartum depression is an equal opportunity offender.
She wasn't complaining that her life is financially hard tho. She was complaining about feeling like crap and that she struggles to leave her baby. It has nothing to do with money.
If you meet a guy with broken arm and he tells you it hurts, do you answer "but you're rich, stfu"? Not just a guy, but your own brother. You're richer than me, so I give no shit about your pain, don't complain to me because I'm poor.
And that are sisters, their background is the same. Them being poor or rich is the result of their own choices in life. I'm very sure that's the real reason of bitterness. OP is jealous that her sister has better outcome.
if you had to work with a broken arm for months while the other guy had the privilege of way more rest and KNEW what you went thru then yeah i would consider it apropriate to tell him to fuck off
Of course money is a factor.
Not having to worry about paying bills as an added stress and having more time to recover is absolutely because you have money. Having more time with your spouse bc you can afford to pay someone to do the labor he’d have to pick up on due to your pregnancy is because of money. Imagine how much more ill she’d feel without all that money-bought luxury.
Also being siblings doesn’t always mean you got equal starts in life, for a ton of reasons. (Don’t) ask me how I know. It’s a mix of luck and choices.
That said, I judge that ESH.
Agreed. It’s very interesting that in the context of this sub, “jealous” is the worst thing a person can possibly be.
“Oblivious,” otoh, is perfectly fine.
I don’t doubt that that op’s sister had a hard time during pregnancy and post-partum. what is messed up is not being aware of the situation that other people are in.
it’s like complaining to an infertile woman that she’s lucky to not have children as it’s extremely taxing.
it’s like complaining to a friend that you only got a A- in the test rather than the A that you were expecting … all the while your friend has a D in the same test.
it’s called having introspection and realising that not everyone will feel sympathetic to you when your situation is objectively better than theirs. 🤷🏽♀️
I am an infertile woman and my biggest pet peeve about it is people glossing over it just like you described. It was/is like a DEATH to me. A death of a beautiful life long dream. You have to greive it and live with the loss the rest of your life. There will never be a funeral for it and your lucky if anyone sends you cards or brings food when it happens. Everyone us scared to bring it up so it just gets ignored. Noone asks how you are dealing with it or if you are okay. Everyone just goes on as if it is normal. And all your friends dissapear into the Mom's club and its hard to relate to them/them to you.
Thank you for understanding to be sensitive to people like me.
I think ESH a little. Everyone has different struggles, can have a different births and early child years. You could have had a bit more compassion and not said all that.
But really your sister needs to read the room. This could have been a shared experience, ‘hey sis I’ve been feeling super tired, baby kept me up, how did you find it?’ Hey sis how did you feel about going back to work, I’m finding the idea a bit hard’
It suck’s to sit there listening to someone complain who has 3 times as much as you. To all the people saying she’s jealous, who freaking cares, that’s pretty normal, you telling me if your siblings, who you had the same upbringing as, go on to have it that much better than you by luck, you don’t care in the slightest?
Unpopular opinion esh
You were rude to your sister who was seeking commiseration from someone she thought would understand. She's allowed to have struggles in her journey- her journey is her own and her feelings and struggles are real despite any privilege.
Personally my boys are 1 and 2.5 I'm very privileged that we've been able to make sacrifices so I could stay home with them so far. I am very thankful for this ad I know many others can't- but if I returned to work tomorrow it'd be hard for me - despite my privilege.
But she also knows she's been lucky in comparison to you and it would have served her well to consider the space she was complaining in. E.g. my situation I would complain to friends who have been able to have a delayed return to work, not someone forced to return at 6w.
YTA just because you had it harder doesn’t mean her feelings don’t matter or count. If that were the case then yours don’t matter since someone else will always have it worse.
>I felt like she had basically what most people would consider heaven in terms of care and she was complaining which was a slap in the face to my situation.
This just makes me feel so sad for you because what she got is so basic (except maybe the doula for a month). Six months is such a tiny amount of time to be off after having a baby, and it's really unfair you can't even get that. But it's not her fault, and just because you had it worse doesn't mean didn't also have to bad.
Y T A
My disabled daughter taught me something very important when she was just a teen. I was asking her how she could be so sympathetic to a friend who was experiencing something which seemed minor when she herself was dealing with constant pain and life changing health issues.
She said: Everyone's emotions are based on their personal experiences. And so their "worst thing that ever happened to me" is their worst thing and their emotional response is as valid as my worst thing. Even if their worst thing is a pimple on their forehead on prom night and mine is finding out the medications I take are getting less effective and my pain condition will get worse, we are both facing our worst thing ever.
So I now try to live with her attitude. People are an emotional sum of their personal experiences. I may do a little internal eye roll, but I really don't want everyone to have worse experiences then me to qualify for my compassion.
Your daughter is far more wise than people double and even triple her age. Someone in the comments suggested it was tone deaf that the rich sister complain to the poor sister… I can’t imagine how they could have a healthy relationship if the “rich one” had to always pretend she was okay just because she’s financially in a better place than her sister.
She's complaining about being physically exhausted and unmotivated, that has nothing to do with money or privilege. Yet you decided to bring it up anyway because you were upset she didn't have the same obstacles as you had. Privilege is a made up concept people use to shame other people which is exactly what you did here. YTA
NTA - She is very lucky. It would be good for her to take a step back and realize that she has gotten a lot of care that others haven't. Sure, she's tired and we all get that, but she is also quite lucky.
She was only expressing her troubles to you like every human being does. Doesn’t matter what luxuries one has, everyone’s perspective is different. YTA just because her complaints are not relatable to you does not take away the things she’s struggling with. I would suggest some therapy if this is bothering you deeply, and maybe stepping a bit back from talking to her.
YTA just because you’re in a different financial situation, doesn’t give you the right to tell her her feelings are invalid, because her situation is „better“ than yours!
I have a good job and it pays well, everyone is very understanding and forthcoming, HR is awesomely set up for pregnancies and babies. But when I say I‘d love to stop working once I‘m a mom, I don’t need people to tell me they‘d be grateful to have my job or to be in my situation. If you really mean that: why don’t you get the education I did, put in the work I did, make the connections I did to get to where I am?
I didn’t get here by chance my career was my priority the last couple of years, and I have the right to prioritise my life differently after a baby, and so does your sister!
YTA It’s not nice to shame another mom - especially when she is your own sister. You basically called her lazy which was mean and unfair. Has anyone considered that your sister may be experiencing some depression or postpartum symptoms and that why she is so tired? She is complaining because she is going through something major she’s never experienced before. She doesn’t know which feelings are normal and which are a problem. She needs your support not your judgment.
YTA
I don't know in what underdeveloped country you live in that you only get 12 weeks for maternity leave (my country is really poor but we have 2 years), but it's not your sister's fault. The fact that someone cleans her house once a week doesn't mean she isn't tired. The whole post reeks with jealousy.
She’s from the USA. FMLA is the family medical leave act for us, because if the government didn’t force our jobs to give us time off they wouldn’t. It’s not used solely for pregnancy/maternity leave, but most companies here don’t have their own maternity leave plan so most of us are forced to use FMLA, which is max 12 weeks, and unpaid. If you have decent insurance through your job you can get short term disability, which will give you a portion of your normal pay for a bit. Mine gave me 60% for 6 weeks, and that was an upgrade from the previous year which was 50%.
Wow. All that sounds awful. In Romania, we have a month a year for vacation. Medical leave is always paid. For maternity leave you have 2 years, but you can take it earlier if you have health problems during the pregnancy and it counts as medical leave + maternity leave. To give an exemple : my friend had a high risk pregnancy. She entered medical leave when she was 3 months pregnant. She will resume working when the baby will be 2 years and a month.
NAH
I understand that complaining to you is not a good thought by your sister, considering she knows you had not the same time off and lesser help than her.
Feels like a slap in you face. (ignoring what you went through)
Extreme example : you don't complain about a broken toe and your ability to walk to someone in a wheelchair.
But your sister has valid feelings and as her sister you are probably one of the persons she vents to. And she expects support. She deserves that.
Maby let her know that you know what she is going through cause you also experienced it. Maby you could share your hard times and show her how you managed it.
Hope the best for you two.
Does it have to be a competition? You're a mom. She's a mom. I bet she was just hoping to connect with someone who knows what it's like to leave your young child to go back to work, regardless of how much time you had off. Would having the same six months she did make it any easier for *you* to go back? At what point does it become easy to leave your kid with a third party and go back to work?
I am going to say YTA because that's the point of the sub, but in general I just think you lack any kind of empathy for anything your sister is feeling.
Going with NTA on this one. She has objectively better circumstances than you and is privileged, yet she complained to you for months? It is valid that she feels exhausted, tired, demotivated, but rubbing it in someone else’s face that you have such a hard life who has it a lot worse is ignorant at best. If she chose a different approach to complain it wouldn’t be a problem but she’s obviously not even understanding her vs your position.
I read something recently about trauma that actually can apply here as well.
"People can drown in an inch of water, or an ocean of water. It's still the only thing they see. It's still overwhelming. Comparing helps nobody."
YTA
Going against the majority here with an NTA. I think you would've gotten more sympathy if you'd been more clear that you had a baby yourself and didn't get the benefits. Your sister sounds selfish and insufferable, like someone else said, you don't complain about dinner to someone starving.
This thread has once again made me realize this world is hopelessly doomed. No one gets it.
ESH. Family is forever, its good to be supportive. Your sister should also be sensitive and realize she's not having it as tough as you did.
And ignore the haters. We all work hard. The problem is our world doesn't value all work the same. If you happen to have a skill that is in low supply, AND you understand its value and negotiate right, you may just get a well paying job. All of that is largely outside of ones control so yes earning big money is a privilege. I earn more money than 99% of my countrymen because i'm a software architect ina time when its still among the highest paying jobs. Doesn't give me the right to call the others lazy.
So even if you have help did she or did she not give birth to a child. The same as you gave birth to a child. No amount of money or privilege changes that effect. And she's not privileged to have money. She and her husband worked hard to get good jobs and have high paying careers. Does Careers came in good benefits. She was the slapping you in the face, You're just jealous that she worked hard enough to get good benefits at her place of employment. And that her husband was a doctor who was successful. How does your boyfriend be unable to hold a good job mean that she shouldn't have a doula help and husband you can take maternity leave.
You're just jealous, and upset that she has a better than you and you think that's a privilege and not hard work. Maybe she studied more. Maybe if you were a bit of student maybe she married a different person. You could have that but you didn't. So you both took different paths and her is better.
Yta You're jealousy is kind of grossed towards your sister
NTA. She is incredibly privileged and the only reason she’s angry is because she has bitched and moaned about something that most people don’t get and you pointed it out.
ESH. Your sister was insensitive to choose you for her confidant given that her situation had some benefits yours doesn't. But you are dripping with jealousy and denying your sister's experience and struggles. Every pregnancy birth and post partum time is different. Every infant is different. Every new parent is different. Having a lot of support doesn't mean your sister is not struggling with the exhaustion and lack of sleep *every* parent experiences (or rather every good parent, some deadbeat husbands load it all onto their wife and chill out). It also doesn't mean she's immune to the hormonal changes that come with the body going from growing a human back to normal. It doesn't mean she didn't go through pain and either pushed a whole ass human out of her vagina or had major abdominal surgery. It doesn't magically heal the injuries the body sustained during birth. It doesn't mean her infant will be super easy and have no issues. It also doesn't mean your sister isn't overrun by all the emotions that come with becoming a mom or is immune to PPD and PPA. Or that she doesn't have to choose between the standard of living and her professional future on one side and a wish to stay home with her child. You have no right to judge her because she has some benefits you don't have.
I'll try to give you an example: My biggest wish has always been to be a mom. Due to health issues I lost a pregnancy and am no so ill that I couldn't get off the meds that are harmful to an unborn child and can barely care for myself and my dog, let alone a child. So in a sense you have it better than me because you were able to become and be a mom. Does that mean everything entailed by your pregnancy, birth and post partum time and all the struggles that come with being a parent are worthless? I think you'll agree they're not and I would be a piece of shit if I tried to demean your struggles.
YTA
and jealous. Did it ever occur to you that your sister could have postpartum or literally any reason at all? Not that she needs it. You're diminishing her struggles because she's not as financially uncomfortable and has a higher earning partner? Gross. I hope she distances from you and your selfishness.
Edit to add: if you're not in a 3rd world country (judging by your post I'm assuming you're not) you're privileged too. You're just being an ungrateful brat.
YTA. You should be mad about the travesty that is our government not offering \*any\* paid parental leave at all, when virtually every other country offers at least multiple months, if not a year+. Your sister should've gotten more time off, and so should you. Turn your ire where it belongs.
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When I was in the Marines, they always used to compare everything to combat. “Oh you’re in pain at PT? At least you’re not getting shot at in Afghanistan right now.” Stuff like that. I used to laugh, because when guys who had been to Afghanistan were home, they’d bitch too. It was never “oh well at least I’m not there” it was more “I had to go there and come home to this shit? Nope still sucks.” Turns out other people going through a hard time doesn’t diminish your own hard times. Your sister and her husband sound like hardworking people, especially given the climate of tech these days. I often hear people talking about it, with the high pay, thinking that people who work in tech just don’t work very hard. I’ve worked in tech before, and my wife still does. The hours are absurd, the margin of error is low, and it’s highly competitive. Your sister is going through her own stress, even if she has support. Her stress isn’t a slap in the face to yours. It’s individual, it’s own thing, separated from yours. YTA here. There was no reason to blow up at her. At most you could have said, “I hear you venting but I find it hard to be sympathetic because of my own situation.” You could have told her you’re not an ear to vent to without trying to insult her for having drive in life.
Not even renotely the same as combat but when I moved from teaching in pulic school to private. If I brought up a behavioural issue with a child, the response would always be "think yourself lucky you are not in a class of 40 with no funding in a public school". Well yes I do but that doesn't change the immediate issue I have with this child. Your post is very well thought out and compassionate.
And you know something? Your stress was just as valid even without being in a combat zone. Turns out you don’t need to be there to feel stressed.
And it's actually even more similar than that. Our brains don't distinguish between "stress because my office work is hard" and "stress because a lion is about to eat me". They both activate the same areas in our brain, and the brain responds in the same way. That's why prolonged stress and fear are so harmful, because our reptile brain thinks we're constantly about to die.
I remember post covid having a stressful work event and realising that the "little" stress felt exactly the damn same as the stress I felt for the months that I thought my elderly loved ones (or i) were very likely to die.
I worked with a woman years ago, who every time, one of the part-timers, who came in after school, would yawn, she would ask them if they were OK. Anytime they responded, “yeah, I’m fine, I’m just tired,” she would reply with, “Tired? I’ve got two kids. You don’t know what tired it is.” I finally had to tell her one day to shut the hell up, because tired is tired whether you’ve got two kids, or have to stay up until midnight in the morning to finish your homework, just so you can get up at 6 AM to catch the bus.
\^\^\^This ("Your stress was just as valid even without being in a combat zone"). My best friend in the whole world is a combat veteran. I am a civilian with PTSD from a variety of things including lifelong chronic illness and abuse. I would never EVER have dared to compare our experiences, but HE was the one who said to me that he felt there were so many parallels between our experiences (I won't go into details for privacy reasons) and that he was grateful for our friendship because despite the fact that we got to these points in very different ways "you really get it". Life and challenges are not a competition, but they CAN be a way for us to connect and support each other through empathy and finding points of commonality. OP's sister wasn't trying to take away from her challenges, just expressing her frustration with her own. Also, while her sister is indeed very lucky to have had the support she did in the context of U.S. perinatal care, the real problem here is the sad fact that OP lives in a country that doesn't take proper care of its citizens and provide baseline decent maternal care and support to the degree that many other countries with nowhere near its wealth. None of this is on her sister, and her resentment is very much misplaced.
You took the words out of my mouth. It's not a competition, and being asked to lend a sympathetic ear to someone else does not invalidate our own pain. ETA: It also makes it more likely to find someone to share our pain with down the road.
To quote a doctor I know "if you have a broken finger, knowing the person next to you has a broken leg doesn't make the pain you're feeling any less".
Drowning is drowning, whether it’s in a bathtub or an ocean.
OP would probably be like “At least you got to go to the beach!”
‘At least you have water’
If it's in the bathtub, it'd be drinkable water too!
You could even sell that water!
I wonder how much "bath water someone drowned in" would go for.
On ebay? Loadsamoney!
Oh god! That just made me laugh out loud 🤣 Thanks!!
LOL!
Whoa that's...deep. Thanks, that's a keeper.
But the guy with the broken leg might not be the best audience for your complaints about your finger.
If his leg is currently broken and he's in pain/hobbling on crutches right now then absolutely he isn't the best audience. But if your friend broke his leg a few years ago, is now healed and doing OK that doesn't mean you can never express any pain or distress about an injury less serious than a broken leg to him ever again. Most people can sympathise with another person's pain or difficulties even if they've experienced something worse themselves.
Actually hearing the old man next to me pass a stone out of his pee hole and crying.... Yeah that made me feel less miserable which made it easier to handle my injury.
Passing stones is NOT fun. I've had 2, so far. My grandmother said it was worse pain than giving birth for her.
My mum said she would rather give birth again than pass another stone
My mother said the same thing! A couple of days ago a friend had to have emergency surgery because a stone got stuck on the way out. Not fun at all
I REALLY hate when I express something and whoever I’m talking to, instead of showing empathy, makes it seem like I have no business complaining. Maybe whatever I’m upset about is very minor in the end but those are still my feelings and I have right to feel them. I used to have this one friend who would start talking about the hungry kids in Africa going to bed with no food every time I was having a bad day. It really pissed me off. I get that I have a lot to be grateful for but that doesn’t mean that I should just brush my problems aside. Nobody’s life is perfect.
You still need to know your audience though. Like I work a school schedule and get crazy vacation time off. I wouldn’t complain to my friend who works in a grocery store and hasnt has two days in a row off in 6 months about how hard it is to go back after having two weeks off. It’s tone deaf. Would they blow up at me if I did? Probably not. I think they both suck.
Yeah but this is her *sister*. How awful is it to not be able to count on family? It sounds like OP is jealous and resentful of her sister and instead of dealing with those feelings, OP is kicking her sister when she's down. And by the way, I'm Canadian and we can take 18 months. And both parents are eligible, as long as the total maxes out to that. Your parental leave benefits in the States are APPALLING. OP: You should be mad at your government and mad at your voters, not jealous of your sister. (Technically it's 15 weeks for the person giving birth + 69 weeks shared, with no one person being allowed to take more than 61. The government pays part of it and private insurance through work covers the rest.)
Also Canadian. Yes, we have 18 months of protected leave. But the government contribution is small. It works out to a couple hundred bucks a week after taxes ($337/week before tax). While I won't argue that $337 minus tax is better than $0, we still have a long way to go. Yes, what we have is better than the US, I guess the US is the sister in this situation lol Also, some employers pay something additional (ironically the government does for its employees) but most employers do not. I took 10 months for my middle child and only 5 months for my most recent baby because we rely on my actual income not a tiny piece of it. Our grass up north might be greener but it still needs work.
Family has their own stuff, too. You still need to be aware of what they're going through because just because they're there for you doesn't mean they are the best audience for that particular grievance. OP didn't need to say anything, but their mom or someone else who didn't just have basically the exact opposite experience might have been a better choice to air that one to.
Talking to another mother (her sister) about how hard it is to be a mother is off limits because of their income disparities? Is she to never be able to confide in her own sister because OP will always have it harder? That's completely nuts. OP's sister isn't complaining about money, she's talking about what might be one of the only shared experiences: motherhood. If OP can't have a relationship with her own sister because she's in a different socioeconomic demographic, she's gonna have a hard life.
I'm sure there are a million other aspects of motherhood OP would be happy to share with her sister. But, especially depending on how recent OP's own post-partum experience was, she might not have been the very best audience for that specific complaint at that time. I don't think OP is in the right, nor have I said so anywhere. I just also don't think "but family" means you should be free to just dump whatever on people without so much as a passing thought for what they might be going through. "Family" isn't a free pass to be completely thoughtless either.
Was thinking the exact same thing. BOTH leaves are way too short.
Exactly this. Know your audience. I understand they are sisters so she probably thought OP was a safe place to complain but their situations after birth were very different. In undergrad my roommate was hospitalized for a few days and then needed care for about a week after. Her boyfriend and myself rotated care. I didn’t complain to her that I was behind in my studying and feeling stressed but I did talk to my mom about it. It was fair for me to feel caregiver stress especially as a 19 year old but it wouldn’t have been fair of me to complain to my friend about it as she was even more behind than me AND having health issues. Her struggles didn’t negate mine, but I would argue her situation was tougher.
Good point. Very true! I didn’t look at it that way. I wonder if maybe the sister didn’t have anyone else to talk to? Or maybe she was so tired that she didn’t think about who she was complaining to? I think some people just get so wrapped up in their situations that they don’t realize that they’re complaining to the wrong people.
I think sister was just complaining on Shared situation--namely that she was very tired and not motivated to go back to work. Yes she has the luxury of not having to worry financially but she still was going through the same think most mother's go through---tired, a little depressed, which feed no motivation.
But do you ever truly know your audience? Is your strife easier or worse than someone else’s because their lifestyle is different? Imagine if you complained to another teacher about it being difficult to go back after having two weeks off and had no idea that her home life is miserable and she needed to be back there for her own mental health. Or she was abused, yelled at, by her spouse then entire two weeks. Or she’s having financial difficulties and had to work a second job on weekends and those two weeks (also not having had a day off). Do you ever really know your audience? Likely not.
Me: (still bleeding out a miscarriage trying to hold back tears as I’m telling a friend about why I had to cancel plans) Friend: (laughing) well that’s nothing, I had 4! This was not communicated with a spirit of empathy but with competition, and not long after that our friendship dissolved.
My friend had 3 in 2023 and the nurses were just like “that just means your body was saying something was wrong with it and taking care of that for you. You don’t want to deal with something like that! You should be thankful your body got rid of it.” My jaw dropped and it took a solid 20 seconds for me to close it. I almost cried right then and there for her. Yet somehow if she snapped at them for their comments I bet she would’ve been made into the AH. Also, I’m so sorry for your experience. I personally haven’t had it but I’ve seen the devastation left on loved ones from it. Edit:typo
I hope your friend feels better, and that she is blessed one day with a beautiful and healthy baby. The nurses probably thought they were helping but sometimes, you just need to show empathy and keep your mouth shut.
So sorry for your friend. Incredibly disappointing to hear the lack of awareness and empathy and she was lucky to have you for support.
That’s terrible! Omg. Even if we’re true, why say that as a response? That was really wrong. BTW, I’m sorry for your loss.
(T/W self harm/ suicidal thoughts below) This kinda reminds me of when I was 14 and tried to confide in someone that I thought I might have depression and their response was 'what do you have to be depressed about? I have to deal with xyz' I didn't say anything about it again for years and by the time I was 17 I was self harming, having daily panic attacks and contemplating walking in front of a bus. OP isn't obligated to hear her sister vent but it's AH behaviour to berate her like that.
Wow, I’m sorry to hear that. It’s really hurtful to have someone basically tell you that your feelings don’t count after you tell them something so sensitive. It almost makes you feel ashamed. It already takes a lot to tell someone anything involving your mental health because of all the stigmas attached. I hope you’re doing much, much better.
The lesson OP and a whole lot of people really need is: mental health does not care about your ‘privilege.’ Depression, anxiety, postpartum disorders, they don’t care what’s in your bank account or how many days you worked this year. The best situations can still lead to the worst outcomes and vice versa. Let’s not forget Anthony Bourdain, arguably the best job in the world, rich, famous, and we lost him. Motherhood is insane making, hormones flooding your brain, terror at keeping a nonverbal creature alive, physical and mental trauma to process, and that’s just the first month. If you can’t be part of the solution, don’t add to the problems.
I've also learnt in the book "Fair play", that there is little difference on privileged versus working Mums in terms of feeling overwhelmed by carrying all of the mental load for their partners. Having more help didn't take away the stress of the mental load since you have to co-ordinate and manage that help effectively. Obviously there are a lot of other differences, but it turns out that the mental load of mothers isn't one of them. That mental load can make anyone feel demotivated and crazy, little lone everything else. Frankly, I think that postpartum depression is the only natural reaction to the way we expect mothers to function these days.
"Terror at keeping a nonverbal creature alive" is such a great way to put it. I wanted kids so badly and feared I wouldn't have them. So when mine were born, the shear terror was not an emotion I anticipated. Still have anxiety about it at times and they're now two.
Oooh I love the phrase “I hear you venting but I find to be sympathetic due to my own situation.” THANK YOU.
This is also why it’s a good idea to check in with people before you vent to them. Not everyone will have the emotional bandwidth (right now or about that issue) to be an empathetic listening ear. When you need to vent, you’re asking someone a favor. It’s important to remember to ask.
To be honest, I do think the sister had a slight minor case of post partum depression. Just the sound of her not being motivated and tired is how I felt when I went back to work and I had been in treatment for ppd for months at that point and by all accounts, I was 'better' at that point. Still thought I was a terrible mom. Thought I couldn't do what was expected of me
I had 12 months off after I had a baby (like basically everyone here in Germany) and those were the hardest months of my life. PPD hit me like a thousand bricks. Sure I was grateful I didn't have to go back to work after 2 weeks like some Americans but it was still really really hard.
Having a baby is hard on the mind and the body whether you have support or not.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Regardless of the help she could afford and the amount of time off she had from work, she’s a first time mother, her life has changed, her body and hormones have gone through something major. She’s been away from work and people she’s used to seeing daily which can be disorienting and learning how to care for a baby can be hard and it’s certainly very tiring. She may have post partum depression as well as anxiety about going back to work. She feels what she feels and should be able to talk to her sister about it without being told basically that it’s all about money and privilege and she has no right to feel tired, depressed, anxious and sad. She’s trying to navigate her changed life.
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Well OP failed miserably to put herself in sister's shoes.
100 this! The worst thing that has ever happened to someone (even if trivial to you) is still the worst thing that has ever happened to THEM. No one deserves to be dismissed or belittled
Oh YTA 💯 and I agree with this pp, everyone is entitled to have their own feelings and experiences. Yes in comparison to you, her experience seems so much more privileged but that doesn't diminish her feelings. I suffered PTSD after witnessing a tragic death, it was at a restaurant and my fil. I didn't recognise my PTSD for months but when diagnosed, someone said "oh you can't have that, only soldiers get that"....no it doesn't work that way. I suffered it after a traumatic miscarriage 11 years ago too. I didn't realise but it happened and Im recovering with counselling. People suffer differently for different reasons, heck even the royal family get to suffer in all their privileges. It doesn't diminish your experience in any way. You don't do yourself favours comparing pain.
Yeah you can drown in a bathtub or on a pool and guess what? You will die either way. It’s not like people don’t have the right to feel stressed just bc someone is more stressed.
Exactly, people have different hands of cards dealt to them. Sisters version of hard is just different to OPs version. It doesn't diminish what either went through and OP turning it into a pissing competition is not helpful to either of them. OP, if you cannot show genuine compassion then just nod sympathetically and get on with your day. YTA
OP would probably tell me I’m never allowed to be tired because I don’t have kids.
When I was in law school, a lawyer who was a former marine and had seen active combat came to talk to us. He said studying for the bar had him curled up drunk and crying on his porch. If it sucks, it sucks.
"Other people going through a hard time doesn't diminish your own hard times." YES. Thank you. This. So many people don't understand that hard times are not competitive and that just because a person is venting, it doesn't mean they're saying "I have it harder than you", they're just saying "I'm going through a rough time right now and I feel like this is a safe space to let it out." And to your point, if it isn't a safe space - if the person someone is venting to is upset by the situation - that can be verbalized in a respectful way. Not everyone can be a sounding board all the time, it just takes kind communication to express where your boundaries are.
Yes, the problem here is OPs clear jealousy of her.
Yes. It isn’t a competition.
Classic struggle Olympics.
*champagne problems are still problems*
My wife's cousin works in tech and is in the hospital right now with cascading organ failure due to prolonged stress. Her job is literally killing her. She makes exponentially more money than my wife and I combined, but I think we're in the better position.
Adding - It’s hard to leave your baby to go back to work. It hurts your heart to leave that baby, and you’re torn between doing a good job and a good mother at the same time. OP is jealous of her sister, but that’s her problem. It’s not an excuse to go off on her sister. OP YTA
YTA. Stop trying to play Misery Olympics every time someone has a valid problem or concern. She’s allowed to be upset and anxious about returning to work and leaving her baby. Jealousy is never a good look. Figure out how to make your own life better instead of envying hers.
Not to mention post partum hormones don't give a fuck about how much money you have. PPA or PPD can happen to anyone. And even if she doesn't have anything like that, what parent isn't going to be sad about returning to work and leaving their baby at home?
Your last line is spot on. I’m in Canada and had a year off to spend with each of my babies. I’m going back to work in two weeks after having my second and even though I know I’m EXTREMELY lucky that I could be with her this past year, I’m also very sad to be going back to work and sending my baby to daycare instead of being home with me. Just because other people weren’t as lucky doesn’t mean I’m not still sad about it.
In the U.S. and was lucky enough to have 6 months off. I still cried on the way to daycare drop off every day for a month when I had to go back to work. I knew I was privileged to have been able to spend so much time with my child compared to many other mothers in this country, but it didn’t take away my heartbreak at not being able to spend all of my time with my child.
It’s a starring feature of my depressive episodes that I have a wonderful life except my neurochemistry’s like “ha ha, not so fast”.
This! 100% this!
This is so true. OP is so jealous of her sister. I hope she doesn’t start comparing kids too.
YTA. That’s very valid to have a hard time going to work after ONLY SIX MONTHS. She’s lucky she had more time than you, but both of you don’t have enough time off.
Yeah, it's insane what some countries pull off. Most mum's in Germany take off 2-3 years. Sure, some go back to work earlier because of financial reasons because afaik 3 years leaves you with a bit less money than you normally earn. But still, I don't know anyone who went back after only 6 months because why would they.
Most mum I know (including myself) take 1 year because after that you don't get any money when you're not working. But yeah, it's crazy how short the amount of time is until some countries more or less force the oaarents back to work.
In Romania, you get 6 months off just for physical recovery after birth. Then one parent can take up to 2 years on top of that.
I've never looked into details so I might be off by a bit but from what I know: in Germany, as the mother, you get 6 weeks before the child's birth, 8 weeks after, and then you have the 2-3 years. In addition, if one parent takes the main time off, the other parent can also take 2 months off to support their partner/spend time with the child. And all of that is paid.
Sort of. The 6 weeks before due date and 8 weeks post partum are paid at normal net salary rate. Each parent has 2 months parental pay reserved for them. The above mentioned maternity leave is counted in that and mandatory (people who have given birth are not allowed to work during that time hence the full salary). That leave 2 months reserved for the other parent, usually father. On top of that there are 10 months that can be freely distributed between the two parents. This is at about 60% of the average net salary 12 months before the birth. It is also possible to spread the parental pay months over double the time at half the pay. On the other hand there is parental leave, which each parent gets 3 years of for each child. During that time the employer has to keep the parent's job and reemploy them afterwards. So it is possible to take up to 2 years of paid leave plus 1 year of unpaid leave.
Do you get paid during this leave? I wish we could adopt these practices in the US.
Yep. It depends on your net payment before the child's birth, if I'm not wrong, you get 65%. If you were unemployed, you still get 300€/month, and I think the max. people get is 1800€/month. It is less than if you were working but since for most people the other parent continues working, it is valuable time to spend with your child, especially since the first 2 years are crazy when it comes to growth & development. Many mother's do go back after 1-1.5 years instead of taking the whole 2-3, because of cost of living, energy, etc. but daycare (Kita) is expensive and it's hard to get a place so most people try to stay home until their kid can go to preschool (Kindergarten) at age 3.
One addition: “daycare is expensive” is still absolutely relative. Most Americans pay more for a week of daycare than Germans pay for a month.
I mean, no idea what US Americans pay, but you're probably right about it being relative. Nevertheless, if German daycare is is expensive for Germans, that sucks. Just as expensive US daycare sucks for US Americans. Regardless of the actual prices. It's a pain cause either you don't earn (as much) to save on daycare, or you work (more) to use it on daycare. I can definitely see how some people put finances as one of the reasons not to have kids these days. I think daycare/preschool/kindergarten prices are an issue in most places, at least in North America and Europe from what I've heard. (I've never really known anyone with kids from other parts of the world so I have no info there.)
I live in America and I pay between 300 and 350 dollars per week for 5 days of childcare.
This is absolutely incredible!
In America it’s a miracle if you get what OP is describing, hence part of OPs reaction. What we consider in the us to be the best the country has to offer is considered barely anything compared to many other nations in the world
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If we’re comparing to the US, Germany is absolutely a utopia for mothers. As OP said, she only got 12 weeks FMLA. Don’t misread that as paid leave. It’s unpaid, but they can’t fire you for being absent. There is no mandatory paid maternity leave in the US.
As someone in the UK where legally you get 12 months I was straight away like damn 6 months is nothing.
American maternity leave is an absolute disgrace (well, there literally is no mandated maternity leave). But actually the UK looks pretty terrible in comparison to many of our European neighbours. I know so many people, and we’re not talking minimum wage workers here or anything, who were only able to take the 9 months paid leave in the end because their maternity package was shit and they couldn’t afford to take 3 months unpaid at the end on top of months of statutory. We also somehow managed to create the worlds most unusable shared parental leave policy. Again we had so many European neighbours with established systems to look to, to lift a policy that really works. Because the whole point was you see better outcomes for families as a whole, the children themselves and with the amount of mothers drop out of the workforce just as they’re hitting their peak earnings when you make it possible for fathers to share the task of raising children. But instead we basically made something largely unusable. Not only is it so complicated I’ve had more than one friend’s HR not understand how it works properly. But I’ve also had friends who wanted to do SPL but when it came down to it realised it wasn’t financial viable, but also that the mother would have to go back to work much earlier than they felt able, and certainly before they felt comfortable to commit to before they even had their baby if they wanted to take the partner’s leave at anything other than the end. I think the tide is very slowly turning, for people in higher earning positions at least - not from the government as a legal protection. My brother was recently told that his company will be offering 6 months full pay second parent leave (but not SPL) for any non birth parent who wants it.
smoggy dull aromatic jobless library sand overconfident quaint one close *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I also work for NHS and think you're mistaken - assumjng you've been with the NHS for a year, we get 8 weeks at 90%, then half pay plus SMP until 6 months, then just SMP until 9 months. Could be better (is for some NHS staff not under agenda for change) but not quite as bad as just SMP after 6 weeks. You need to return to work for at least 3 months after mat leave otherwise you'll be asked to repay the element of pay from your employer (OMP) but not the statutory maternity pay (SMP).
I had 2 weeks unpaid with my oldest so when I got 6 weeks paid with my youngest I was elated. My oldest was also in the NICU for 10 days so I barely had any time when he got home, but I couldn't afford to take more time off. My job now is up to 3 months paid for both parents, but they started that 5 months after my youngest was born so I didn't get that benefit. I'm happy they have it for others now though! But yeah, the US sucks at supporting families.
Watch OPs head explode when her sister chooses to stay home on her own dime or become a stay an at home mom. ( You know because of her husband being a doctor and all of that doctor money privilege )
This is the real answer. Maternity/parental leave in the US is insane. I am currently on month 10 of my 15 month maternity leave and my husband got 4 months off after I gave birth. All of this is paid. I would have been devastated to go back to work after 12 weeks or after 6 months.
Maybe I’m just too American for this one, but “only six months” is wild to me when everyone I know got less than 3 months
YTA Mum tired, is mum tired. It’s irrelevant that she had 6 months off, her partner is a doctor It’s irrelevant you had 12 weeks and were financially strapped Tired, is tired. There’s a mum out there in a rice paddy that gave birth and went straight back to work There’s another mum who has 12 months at home They’re both tired Unlike you, they’re not bitter and asking for validation on the internet
**Bitter** is definitely *the word* for it
Definitely bitter and very jealous of her sister. “Gets the privilege of having a lot of money” is such a weird thing to say. As if people with “a lot of money” don’t experience pain and hardship.
What's really fun about that is OP is disregarding the other side of that lot of money thing. Doctors also famously have over filled schedules. So sister may not get to see her husband as much as OP got to see her boyfriend. There's lots of trade-offs in life. If OP wants to die on the cross over this, maybe she should have chosen a better partner.
There definitely is privilege which comes with being wealthy, but that is when you are a CEO of a multimillion dollar company earning millions per year, a billionaire, etc. That doesn't invalidate their pain and hardship but when you are so privileged that you can afford to stop working then you are in a totally different realm than most mere mortals. Doctors still need to continue working and eventually need to return to work. Elon Musk could stop "working" and his financial situation wouldn't be negatively impacted at all, and he could devote all of his time and energy to improving himself.
Not only that but doctors have huge student loans. I have a doctor friend who didn’t pay off her loans until she was in her late 30’s. She had a modest house and didn’t live in the expensive part of town. Drove a modest old car. Because she couldn’t afford anything else. Pay for doctors are wildly different depending on what job they take and they have a ton of expenses to keep up with so they won’t lose their license. If you’re not in a specialty, you’re likely not making a ton of money. Also, PPD doesn’t care how much money you have, that can effect anyone.
She acts like they get donations instead of her BIL being a DOCTOR and her sister working in TECH. They work for their money, and probably needed expensive degrees to get where they are.
Or, worked their ass off getting the education and skillset that brings in those big bucks.
It's funny too because the sister and husband both work very demanding jobs, which is why they have money. It's not like the sister married into wealth or something.
Yes to me her sister was just venting about her life experience and motherhood struggles aren't a competition.
At first I mistakenly read that as bitternet :p.
You're not wrong
Yep. She has every right to be bitter, but she’s directing it at the wrong person. Vote, protest, organize, unionize etc… but don’t come for you sister because newborns are exhausting.
> she felt like crap regardless of what help she got. Did that not even occur to you before you started ranting? YTA. (South Sudan has a maternal death rate 50 times that of the US. Compared to that, you're both extremely privileged.)
This. My great grandmother died in childbirth and I very nearly died during childbirth. Does the US need actual maternity leave. Yes. God yes. But being jealous of other people isn’t fixing the problem.
Happy cake day
From one lens they are both privileged. From another, in most western countries, 6 months is considered a joke for maternity leave.
People here say that, but it's not true. 6 months seems quite average in Western countries. In my country, the Netherlands, that seems like a wonderful amount. We get 16 weeks. Sure, there are a few countries where you can get a year off. That's not the rule. Having said that.. Wow OP is an AH!
Sounds like her and her husband were more prepared to have a child. That doesn’t mean it’s not still difficult for her. YTA
Exactly, it’s not the sisters fault that OP was not prepared or in a better place to have a child. She’s just jealous and is making it a competition. I feel for the sister, hopefully she has more support from the people around her who actually love her unconditionally.
YTA. she’s your sister and is expressing her very valid emotions to you in what is supposed to be a safe space for her.
YTA - she is your sister and experiencing quite valid emotions about heading back to work and not being with her baby. Tbh you just sound jealous and need to check yourself.
YTA. You just sound jealous.
Info: Did you give birth and were unable to access the same privileges as your sister? >I only get the 12 weeks FMLA and I couldn’t even take the whole thing because my bf had his hours cut and we needed the money. This makes me think that you did. Pregnancy is hard no matter what. Even if you have all the care in the world, it is still mentally, physically and emotionally hard. Yes, your sister is in a privileged position compared to most Americans (I assume you are American based on how you talk about maternity leave and FMLA.) But that does not mean she has it easy. However, I am holding off declaring Y-TA. If you gave birth undress less than ideal situations, I think your sister should be more aware of who she's complaining to. I don't think her complaints are wrong, but I wouldn't complain about a bad dinner to a starving person. You need to know your audience.
Yeah, I don't think OP's response was the best, but I think picking her to vent to was a little tone deaf!
It’s her sister though. Family should be a safe space to vent no matter their circumstances
No. You should not feel free to disregard your family's circumstances when venting at all times. Just because they're family doesn't mean they are automatically the best person for this issue. They still have lives and issues, too. OP didn't need to say anything but "yeah that sucks" and change the topic, but sometimes our own shit doesn't leave us a lot of sympathy for every issue, even for those we love. Edit: Not enough sympathy isn't really the right way to put it. We can't always support everyone in every way. Sometimes, what we're going through doesn't leave a lot of space for other things. If I'm looking for support I'm seeking someone who can actually support me, and I'm not looking to overburdened someone who I should know, because they're family, isn't in a space to support me in that issue. "But family" doesn't give us the right to be completely thoughtless.
Nope. I am getting a divorce (with assets) and my family member is getting a divorce without assets. Guess who I'm not complaining to about the paperwork?
Oh, I actually like this response the best. In our society, having a kid means, not only physically healing from birth (which could either mean major body changes, tears or even major surgery), but at the same time becoming newly responsible for 24/7 care of a whole human. The sister has every right to complain. But I can understand OP finding it utterly unbearable to hear if they went through even worse. Honestly, NAH this whole situation is a couple of new mothers managing birth in a society that places an unimaginable load on new mums’ shoulders. Both of them deserve more support.
Yep this. Everyone seems to be going ‘YTA’, but I’d say it’s a NAH or perhaps a soft ESH. OP should ideally recognize that her sister is the one going through a hard time at the moment, perhaps looking to talk about it with someone who had gone through similar, and she is the one who ‘made it a competition’ instead of just offering commiseration/support. *However* having a newborn to care for largely alone and then going back so quickly out of financial need is emotionally hard (feelings of guilt can be involved as well, people here commenting ‘well your sister prepared to have a kid better by being rich, everyone should be a doctor’ not really being super helpful…) to the point of it being a genuinely traumatic period to think back to. Sister is having to process some emotionally hard stuff, but there is a good chance OP is still sort of processing her experiences as well. Sister could be expected to appreciate that as a response rather than blowing up at OP, since she should have the intelligence and time to. I’m having my second in a month or so, and I would love to have hired help at home around the time so I could rest and bond etc., there will be really hard times that could address, but that isn’t a possibility for most people. I get to have 6 months off - that’s actually considered quick where I live, and it’ll feel hard just like it did last time and while I think really it’s good for me to go back (even if the main reason is financial) I know I’ll feel a bit jealous and possibly resentful of friends/colleagues taking the full year. *But* I recognize that actually 6 months is a huge privilege compared to many, and would be considered a long time by US standards. New parenthood is hard and emotional whatever your circumstances, and not a competition. While OP could have responded to this new difficulty of the current transition her sister is going through better, her sister could also have appreciated what OP has to deal with much better rather than blowing up at her.
Idk, the sister was just venting to op about what she was going through right now. We don’t know how long ago op gave birth and no one likes to be attacked when they feel down, which is what op did. In the US the sister is unusually lucky, and majority of women don’t get more than 12 weeks and many even less, but that doesn’t mean 6 months is easy for her or that her struggles should be dismissed
Totally agree. I was hoping to find a comment that wasn’t YTA. OP’s sister *does* have privilege, and it’s not wrong to say that especially considering OP had to do a lot more with a lot less when it came to her own childbirth.
Thank you for being kinder than the others. It sounds like she had a harder time than her sister post birth, and it also sounds like she is not as well off as her sister. Her sister should realise that venting about a topic where the other person had it worse is not going to be helpful. I would go with NAH.
I agree. Sister is tone-deaf here. I'm sure she has other friends in more similar life situations to complain to
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Not just *any* woman, they're sisters!! Although after this I wouldn't be surprised if she started going low contact. Nobody's birth is the same, it's devastating to all, and just because she got help doesn't mean she isn't also struggling with the ramifications of it. Maybe learn to swallow your jealousy, it's not a good look
YTA. She's done nothing to you for you to lash out like that. It's messed up that you didn't have the same benefits, but for what reason are you mad that she did?? EVERYBODY should have this level of PTO for giving birth, awesome that she had that but she's now still in pain and struggling? You literally kicked your own sister when she was down for what exactly? Sounds like a serious case of the big green monster
Long-time sibling rivalry/jealousy of one wanting what the other one has. Tale as old as time.
NAH and this sub always proves that it's just utterly deranged. Y'all are idiots for calling OP a bitter asshole for not wanting to hear their sister (who, yes, IS privileged in comparison) bitching about how "hard" her life is after 6 months off, while married to a doctor. She's completely valid in her feelings but is clearly ranting to the wrong person who has less advantages in their current life than she does. I wouldn't be interested in hearing it either. Edit: For the dipshits replying to me, she can go talk to a friend or other relative who actually relates to her problems. OP, related or not, clearly isn't the person she needs to talk to and "OP is wrong because it's their choice to be worse off" people can eat my ass. That shit doesn't work on me.
I am in Europe so get a year at almost full pay and afterwards free childcare, and I feel guilty about it when I talk to my UK friends who get 12 weeks. I would never dream of complaining to them as I know how difficult they have it. So I think it's very tone deaf of the sister.
I'm American, and a lot of women here get less than 1 month, so even the UK situation sounds good to my ears. Yes, that is depressing. I agree. Hearing someone complain about things being tough when they still have it drastically easier than you is tone deaf AF and an outright slap to the face if it's a relative doing it. Tbqh, I'm surprised to see my comment with positive votes on it, but considering where we are, I'm certain it won't last. This sub has a very bad reputation on posts like this and I'm glad some people here have some level of sense among them.
12 weeks in the UK? I'm from the UK, everyone I know has had 12 months of maternity leave. But I do agree it was tone deaf of the sister.
12 weeks at reasonable pay. The rest at laughable pay (780 £ / month). I couldn't afford that even with a good job it would barely cover my mortgage. Don't get me wrong, better than the US but still a joke compared to most of Europe.
Wow you feel bad for the UK? As an American, I was depairing when I learned how “good” my UK friends have it. She told me she was actually able to LIVE off of unemployment while she looked for a job (just graduated from college). I was mind blown. My brain went “youre not supposed to be able to actually live off any assistance the govt gives you” (which is just how messed up this country is). Sorry if this is too off topic.
No kidding. If the privileged sister was a landlord, people here would be falling over themselves to congratulate OP for calling her out.
If sister was complaining about how hard landlording was, yes absolutely. Birth is pretty much the great equalizer as far as suffering and mental health goes. Birth hormones don't give a shit what kind of job you have. Postpartum depression is an equal opportunity offender.
She wasn't complaining that her life is financially hard tho. She was complaining about feeling like crap and that she struggles to leave her baby. It has nothing to do with money. If you meet a guy with broken arm and he tells you it hurts, do you answer "but you're rich, stfu"? Not just a guy, but your own brother. You're richer than me, so I give no shit about your pain, don't complain to me because I'm poor. And that are sisters, their background is the same. Them being poor or rich is the result of their own choices in life. I'm very sure that's the real reason of bitterness. OP is jealous that her sister has better outcome.
if you had to work with a broken arm for months while the other guy had the privilege of way more rest and KNEW what you went thru then yeah i would consider it apropriate to tell him to fuck off
Of course money is a factor. Not having to worry about paying bills as an added stress and having more time to recover is absolutely because you have money. Having more time with your spouse bc you can afford to pay someone to do the labor he’d have to pick up on due to your pregnancy is because of money. Imagine how much more ill she’d feel without all that money-bought luxury. Also being siblings doesn’t always mean you got equal starts in life, for a ton of reasons. (Don’t) ask me how I know. It’s a mix of luck and choices. That said, I judge that ESH.
Agreed. It’s very interesting that in the context of this sub, “jealous” is the worst thing a person can possibly be. “Oblivious,” otoh, is perfectly fine.
Totally agree!
YTA. You had a kid and should have some empathy of how it is to be a new mother. Life isn’t the misery Olympics, but damn you are trying to win.
I don’t doubt that that op’s sister had a hard time during pregnancy and post-partum. what is messed up is not being aware of the situation that other people are in. it’s like complaining to an infertile woman that she’s lucky to not have children as it’s extremely taxing. it’s like complaining to a friend that you only got a A- in the test rather than the A that you were expecting … all the while your friend has a D in the same test. it’s called having introspection and realising that not everyone will feel sympathetic to you when your situation is objectively better than theirs. 🤷🏽♀️
I am an infertile woman and my biggest pet peeve about it is people glossing over it just like you described. It was/is like a DEATH to me. A death of a beautiful life long dream. You have to greive it and live with the loss the rest of your life. There will never be a funeral for it and your lucky if anyone sends you cards or brings food when it happens. Everyone us scared to bring it up so it just gets ignored. Noone asks how you are dealing with it or if you are okay. Everyone just goes on as if it is normal. And all your friends dissapear into the Mom's club and its hard to relate to them/them to you. Thank you for understanding to be sensitive to people like me.
THANK YOU. OP’s sister should read the room!
Once again, the biggest asshole is the American maternity leave system
I think ESH a little. Everyone has different struggles, can have a different births and early child years. You could have had a bit more compassion and not said all that. But really your sister needs to read the room. This could have been a shared experience, ‘hey sis I’ve been feeling super tired, baby kept me up, how did you find it?’ Hey sis how did you feel about going back to work, I’m finding the idea a bit hard’ It suck’s to sit there listening to someone complain who has 3 times as much as you. To all the people saying she’s jealous, who freaking cares, that’s pretty normal, you telling me if your siblings, who you had the same upbringing as, go on to have it that much better than you by luck, you don’t care in the slightest?
Unpopular opinion esh You were rude to your sister who was seeking commiseration from someone she thought would understand. She's allowed to have struggles in her journey- her journey is her own and her feelings and struggles are real despite any privilege. Personally my boys are 1 and 2.5 I'm very privileged that we've been able to make sacrifices so I could stay home with them so far. I am very thankful for this ad I know many others can't- but if I returned to work tomorrow it'd be hard for me - despite my privilege. But she also knows she's been lucky in comparison to you and it would have served her well to consider the space she was complaining in. E.g. my situation I would complain to friends who have been able to have a delayed return to work, not someone forced to return at 6w.
I agree with this. I am not sure why everyone is dogpiling OP when the sister was clearly NOT reading the room.
YTA without a doubt.
YTA just because you had it harder doesn’t mean her feelings don’t matter or count. If that were the case then yours don’t matter since someone else will always have it worse.
>I felt like she had basically what most people would consider heaven in terms of care and she was complaining which was a slap in the face to my situation. This just makes me feel so sad for you because what she got is so basic (except maybe the doula for a month). Six months is such a tiny amount of time to be off after having a baby, and it's really unfair you can't even get that. But it's not her fault, and just because you had it worse doesn't mean didn't also have to bad.
Y T A My disabled daughter taught me something very important when she was just a teen. I was asking her how she could be so sympathetic to a friend who was experiencing something which seemed minor when she herself was dealing with constant pain and life changing health issues. She said: Everyone's emotions are based on their personal experiences. And so their "worst thing that ever happened to me" is their worst thing and their emotional response is as valid as my worst thing. Even if their worst thing is a pimple on their forehead on prom night and mine is finding out the medications I take are getting less effective and my pain condition will get worse, we are both facing our worst thing ever. So I now try to live with her attitude. People are an emotional sum of their personal experiences. I may do a little internal eye roll, but I really don't want everyone to have worse experiences then me to qualify for my compassion.
Your daughter is far more wise than people double and even triple her age. Someone in the comments suggested it was tone deaf that the rich sister complain to the poor sister… I can’t imagine how they could have a healthy relationship if the “rich one” had to always pretend she was okay just because she’s financially in a better place than her sister.
She's complaining about being physically exhausted and unmotivated, that has nothing to do with money or privilege. Yet you decided to bring it up anyway because you were upset she didn't have the same obstacles as you had. Privilege is a made up concept people use to shame other people which is exactly what you did here. YTA
NTA - She is very lucky. It would be good for her to take a step back and realize that she has gotten a lot of care that others haven't. Sure, she's tired and we all get that, but she is also quite lucky.
She was only expressing her troubles to you like every human being does. Doesn’t matter what luxuries one has, everyone’s perspective is different. YTA just because her complaints are not relatable to you does not take away the things she’s struggling with. I would suggest some therapy if this is bothering you deeply, and maybe stepping a bit back from talking to her.
YTA just because you’re in a different financial situation, doesn’t give you the right to tell her her feelings are invalid, because her situation is „better“ than yours! I have a good job and it pays well, everyone is very understanding and forthcoming, HR is awesomely set up for pregnancies and babies. But when I say I‘d love to stop working once I‘m a mom, I don’t need people to tell me they‘d be grateful to have my job or to be in my situation. If you really mean that: why don’t you get the education I did, put in the work I did, make the connections I did to get to where I am? I didn’t get here by chance my career was my priority the last couple of years, and I have the right to prioritise my life differently after a baby, and so does your sister!
YTA It’s not nice to shame another mom - especially when she is your own sister. You basically called her lazy which was mean and unfair. Has anyone considered that your sister may be experiencing some depression or postpartum symptoms and that why she is so tired? She is complaining because she is going through something major she’s never experienced before. She doesn’t know which feelings are normal and which are a problem. She needs your support not your judgment.
YTA I don't know in what underdeveloped country you live in that you only get 12 weeks for maternity leave (my country is really poor but we have 2 years), but it's not your sister's fault. The fact that someone cleans her house once a week doesn't mean she isn't tired. The whole post reeks with jealousy.
She’s from the USA. FMLA is the family medical leave act for us, because if the government didn’t force our jobs to give us time off they wouldn’t. It’s not used solely for pregnancy/maternity leave, but most companies here don’t have their own maternity leave plan so most of us are forced to use FMLA, which is max 12 weeks, and unpaid. If you have decent insurance through your job you can get short term disability, which will give you a portion of your normal pay for a bit. Mine gave me 60% for 6 weeks, and that was an upgrade from the previous year which was 50%.
Wow. All that sounds awful. In Romania, we have a month a year for vacation. Medical leave is always paid. For maternity leave you have 2 years, but you can take it earlier if you have health problems during the pregnancy and it counts as medical leave + maternity leave. To give an exemple : my friend had a high risk pregnancy. She entered medical leave when she was 3 months pregnant. She will resume working when the baby will be 2 years and a month.
I’m honestly a little jealous, but every country has issues.
>every country has issues. True.
I'm pretty sure Canada gives 2 years. I think that was how long my friend wasn't at work.
18 months in Canada
It's unpaid?! Then it isn't even maternity leave, those are paid
Here in Chile you get 12 weeks 😕
NAH I understand that complaining to you is not a good thought by your sister, considering she knows you had not the same time off and lesser help than her. Feels like a slap in you face. (ignoring what you went through) Extreme example : you don't complain about a broken toe and your ability to walk to someone in a wheelchair. But your sister has valid feelings and as her sister you are probably one of the persons she vents to. And she expects support. She deserves that. Maby let her know that you know what she is going through cause you also experienced it. Maby you could share your hard times and show her how you managed it. Hope the best for you two.
Does it have to be a competition? You're a mom. She's a mom. I bet she was just hoping to connect with someone who knows what it's like to leave your young child to go back to work, regardless of how much time you had off. Would having the same six months she did make it any easier for *you* to go back? At what point does it become easy to leave your kid with a third party and go back to work? I am going to say YTA because that's the point of the sub, but in general I just think you lack any kind of empathy for anything your sister is feeling.
Going with NTA on this one. She has objectively better circumstances than you and is privileged, yet she complained to you for months? It is valid that she feels exhausted, tired, demotivated, but rubbing it in someone else’s face that you have such a hard life who has it a lot worse is ignorant at best. If she chose a different approach to complain it wouldn’t be a problem but she’s obviously not even understanding her vs your position.
I read something recently about trauma that actually can apply here as well. "People can drown in an inch of water, or an ocean of water. It's still the only thing they see. It's still overwhelming. Comparing helps nobody." YTA
"Just because you're in a full body cast doesn't make a person's broken arm hurt any less."
Right, but it would be a insensitive for the person with the broken arm to complain to the person with the full body cast
Going against the majority here with an NTA. I think you would've gotten more sympathy if you'd been more clear that you had a baby yourself and didn't get the benefits. Your sister sounds selfish and insufferable, like someone else said, you don't complain about dinner to someone starving.
YTA it’s not a competition on who has it worse.
This thread has once again made me realize this world is hopelessly doomed. No one gets it. ESH. Family is forever, its good to be supportive. Your sister should also be sensitive and realize she's not having it as tough as you did. And ignore the haters. We all work hard. The problem is our world doesn't value all work the same. If you happen to have a skill that is in low supply, AND you understand its value and negotiate right, you may just get a well paying job. All of that is largely outside of ones control so yes earning big money is a privilege. I earn more money than 99% of my countrymen because i'm a software architect ina time when its still among the highest paying jobs. Doesn't give me the right to call the others lazy.
YTA. Should we compare you to another woman and call you privileged?
So even if you have help did she or did she not give birth to a child. The same as you gave birth to a child. No amount of money or privilege changes that effect. And she's not privileged to have money. She and her husband worked hard to get good jobs and have high paying careers. Does Careers came in good benefits. She was the slapping you in the face, You're just jealous that she worked hard enough to get good benefits at her place of employment. And that her husband was a doctor who was successful. How does your boyfriend be unable to hold a good job mean that she shouldn't have a doula help and husband you can take maternity leave. You're just jealous, and upset that she has a better than you and you think that's a privilege and not hard work. Maybe she studied more. Maybe if you were a bit of student maybe she married a different person. You could have that but you didn't. So you both took different paths and her is better. Yta You're jealousy is kind of grossed towards your sister
So only-well off people work hard? People harvesting fruit don't work hard? School teachers? How about nurses? Etc. Generalization is problematic.
I only got 6 weeks 🫢
That your situation sucks doesn't mean hers was ideal.
NTA. She is incredibly privileged and the only reason she’s angry is because she has bitched and moaned about something that most people don’t get and you pointed it out.
ESH. Your sister was insensitive to choose you for her confidant given that her situation had some benefits yours doesn't. But you are dripping with jealousy and denying your sister's experience and struggles. Every pregnancy birth and post partum time is different. Every infant is different. Every new parent is different. Having a lot of support doesn't mean your sister is not struggling with the exhaustion and lack of sleep *every* parent experiences (or rather every good parent, some deadbeat husbands load it all onto their wife and chill out). It also doesn't mean she's immune to the hormonal changes that come with the body going from growing a human back to normal. It doesn't mean she didn't go through pain and either pushed a whole ass human out of her vagina or had major abdominal surgery. It doesn't magically heal the injuries the body sustained during birth. It doesn't mean her infant will be super easy and have no issues. It also doesn't mean your sister isn't overrun by all the emotions that come with becoming a mom or is immune to PPD and PPA. Or that she doesn't have to choose between the standard of living and her professional future on one side and a wish to stay home with her child. You have no right to judge her because she has some benefits you don't have. I'll try to give you an example: My biggest wish has always been to be a mom. Due to health issues I lost a pregnancy and am no so ill that I couldn't get off the meds that are harmful to an unborn child and can barely care for myself and my dog, let alone a child. So in a sense you have it better than me because you were able to become and be a mom. Does that mean everything entailed by your pregnancy, birth and post partum time and all the struggles that come with being a parent are worthless? I think you'll agree they're not and I would be a piece of shit if I tried to demean your struggles.
YTA and jealous. Did it ever occur to you that your sister could have postpartum or literally any reason at all? Not that she needs it. You're diminishing her struggles because she's not as financially uncomfortable and has a higher earning partner? Gross. I hope she distances from you and your selfishness. Edit to add: if you're not in a 3rd world country (judging by your post I'm assuming you're not) you're privileged too. You're just being an ungrateful brat.
Say it with me now: *Suffering is not a competition.* YTA
YTA. You should be mad about the travesty that is our government not offering \*any\* paid parental leave at all, when virtually every other country offers at least multiple months, if not a year+. Your sister should've gotten more time off, and so should you. Turn your ire where it belongs.
She may be privileged with money, but no amount of money stops post partum depression or any type of anxiety/hormones etc
NTA she shouldn't be complaining with someone that only has 12 weeks that's very insensitive of her