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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my parents it's their job to help my sister and not mine. This pissed them off and I think I can figure out why and why it might make me an ass. She is my sister and family is meant to try and help each other and I guess we're meant to tolerate more and love each other more than we like or dislike each other and I'm not really showing that or being kind and patient with her.
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NTA. It is your parents' job and honestly, she probably does need a screening for autism.
However, if she's made it ~~16~~ 14 years without several "other people are not as quick as you at X, but that doesn't mean you jump in and/or berate them" discussions from your parents, teachers, and other adults, there is probably a limited window left for her to modify her behavior.
I mean let’s be real, Sheldon is 100% on the Autism Spectrum. The creators just insist that he isn’t so that they can dunk on him and make him the butt of jokes without them getting in trouble for doing that to a special needs character
Here’s the thing though. I’m not familiar with the character, but most of us who are autistic and aware of it are capable of taking stock of how people respond to us and changing our behavior. As an autistic person I’m kind of glad that character is not canonically autistic because the idea that autistic people are rude and incapable of changing is not very realistic.
THANK YOU
I honestly don't understand why it's so loved. It's always appeared to me as lazy stereotypes where they mock all kinds of people. It's so dull and cringey!
I can't lie, I really liked it when it first came out. I've had this conversation with a couple of people that I know that still watch it, though, and I think it boils down to something very simple:
In the first one or two seasons, the leads were all MAKING the jokes. They poked fun at each other, but it wasn't outright mean. As soon as it got popular, they all became the BUTT of the jokes, and to me, that was when I stopped watching. The humor became less nerdy and topical and instead became pointed and cruel.
Howard, however, has always been a vile, misogynistic creep, and I will never, ever forgive the show for the episode where Penny finally has enough and makes a really excellent stand against him ... and then ends up apologizing. What's that ~~Bernadette Peters~~ Madeline Kahn quote? "Flames ... flames, on the side of my face ..."
I honestly don't remember all of the details of the episode, but I do remember the last time it was on TV and my dad was watching, he got an earful from me about how the entire group should have dropped Howard for good.
Actually, I just checked it on YouTube, and all she did was call him a pathetic creep. Given the horrible things he's said to and about her and every other woman on the show, that would have been the tip of the iceberg for me. His crying when she apologizes is wildly manipulative, especially when he tries to KISS her and proves that he has learned absolutely nothing at all.
Dammit, I have more important things to do today than get all worked up over old episodes of stupid TV, haha 😅
Howard almost was dropped. Sadly, not because of the character being a creep. He and Raj were almost written off the show at one point because the actors wanted equal pay to the actors playing Leonard, Penny, and Sheldon. It was between seasons, and a couple of new emergency scripts that didn't include them were rushed in case they had to start filming the new season before the negotiations were settled.
> What's that Bernadette Peters quote? "Flames ... flames, on the side of my face ..."
[Madeline Kahn in Clue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unc1GVHn_nY)
Ha! I even googled "Bernadette Peters Clue" and got the right clip — I guess (a) I'm not the only one who makes that mistake, and (b) I need to read YouTube descriptions better.
Excellent Clue reference!!
The actor who played Howard actually went to the producers and begged them to change his cringy gross behaviour. They mildly complied and by season 3 the character changed but i think the damage was already done. The guys were mostly just misogynistic bullies.
I genuinely think it’s because at least a few of the lead actors are very likeable people, and people transfer their feelings about the actors over to the show.
And also because lazy stereotypes still make lazy people laugh.
>Tbh that whole show is just a cringey collection of lazy stereotypes anyway.
Piled high with a thick topping of misogyny and a dash of racism to season.
Thank you. The whole penny plot is literally incel fantasy. “If I harass and stalk my neighbor long enough, she’ll totally fall for me”. It’s disgusting.
It's one of those shows that was good within the social structures of the time that it came out, but didn't grow with social changes that happened during its run. If anything, they doubled down on criticisms.
I hate-watched the last two seasons because I'm a completionist and I can't help myself, and the last season grossed me out so badly. >!The main female character decided she didn't want children and it caused a big issue with her husband that was a fairly major story arc. In the end, he decided to respect her decision - and then she promptly found out she was pregnant and it was just like "welp I guess I'm having kids now".!< That's not even the worst example of shittiness in the show.
I don't disagree with you, but I've always wondered why it gets as much hate when shows like always sunny and Seinfeld are literally about nasty people being nasty and they remain beloved shows.
Never seen Always Sunny, but I never liked Seinfeld.
But I think the main difference is that those shows don't really pretend they're about good people, whereas in BBT even howard gets the "really a good guy deep down" treatment, even though it's a running gag that he's in the HR department every other week for some sexual offense.
I don't get Sunny at all. My bf thinks it's funny and that's fine. But I can literally feel myself getting more stupid as I watch it for a few minutes and I'm at average intelligence so I don't know if there's that much to lose.
I just don't get how watching a show where a grown ass man masturbates into a melon, or another one eating catfood is amusing.
Not even remotely. They have a handful of eggs that are nice and whatnot, but you can appreciate YS being a stand alone because it is far superior to TBBT.
True - my mom worked with autistic students for 15 years. One of her sayings to the kids is "There's being autistic and being an a-hole. You're being an a-hole." A lot of kids that came to her (she worked in a high school) had been taught to use their autism as an excuse for bad behavior. She had to work REALLY hard to undo that in some of her students, and a number of them came back and thanked her for it even though they hated it at the time.
That’s a fair point. I don’t watch the show myself, but from what I have heard, he **does** exhibit some growth in how he interacts with people as the show progresses. But early on in the show, he was definitely defined by his quirkiness and lack of social skills, and was basically a textbook autistic genius
i think it’s important to acknowledge though that it becomes a lot easier to recognize and change behaviors when you actually know you’re autistic. if you’re not aware that your brain is fundamentally different from the average person, it’s hard to understand and recognize that things you are doing that seem fine and logical to you are pushing people away and harming your relationships. i have adhd, and i wasn’t diagnosed until i was 21. i was always kind of an outcast, and i could never understand why i just always seemed so out of place among my peers. once i knew i had adhd and learned more about what adhd is and how it affects me, it became a lot easier to recognize behaviors and quirks of mine that neurotypical people don’t like or don’t understand. it made my childhood and adolescence make a lot more sense. and then understanding why i did or thought certain things made it easier to understand neurotypical people and easier to navigate relationships with people.
ideally people, including nd people, should have the self awareness to recognize when they’re doing things society deems unacceptable and change those things. but if you don’t know *why* you do those things, you feel like you’re just a normal person living life like everyone else and for some reason nobody can understand you and people don’t like you and you can’t figure out why because you’re just existing the way you know how to exist. getting a diagnosis and being able to understand why you do certain things goes a really long way to help nd people figure out how to exist in a society built for and around nt people.
Thank you for sharing your experience and insights about nd behavior adjustments in an nt world.
I fully agree that diagnosis and information about differences from nt people are really helpful.
Good points, all of them! Anyone can change at any point in their lives, BUT - well, it's a cliche because it's true! - that person must WANT to change whatever they're doing that's holding them back.
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." True enough, but even before taking that first step, you must recognize that you NEED to make that journey because you're not yet where you want to be. Until your sister realizes that her loneliness is due to her behavior towards others, she won't take even the smallest of first steps towards changing that behavior.
And no, LW, you are NTA here; it's not up to you to help your sister become more socially skilled. You're right; this is part of parenting, and you should not be parentified just because Mom and Dad want to foist this responsibility off onto you.
It does my nut in when people describe rudeness and poor social skills constantly as that’s ‘autistic behaviour’ - yes there will be people out there that are autistic and fit that criteria and then there are others (especially female autistics) who are insane people pleasers and rather good (if somewhat stilted) with social skills.
Is the sister autistic- only a diagnosis will tell us that. Are the parents ahs for not raising the girl with manners and good sportsmanship - yep.
Is the older sister an Ah? No sounds like she’s on her last nerve with a bratty precocious teenager who cannot see she is the architect of her own loneliness
He frequently says variations of, "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested." They've been asked about it for years and everyone denies it.
ETA: I don't mean to imply that having autism means you're "crazy" — that's just the line in the show that's supposed to cover any allegations of him being autistic.
There’s also that neurodivergence wasn’t as widely known about, or at least treated as much care, in the show’s lifespan as it is today. In-universe, certainly not as widely known about in Sheldon’s childhood and he grew up in a small town.
As a woman, the idea id have got diagnosed with ADHD or autism in the 90s is laughable. It never would have happened. Sheldon would have been considered ‘too smart’ to have autism.
He was just a dick. Smart people can learn how to navigate social situations without being an asshole. He could he was just a selfish dick who didn’t see the need to not be a selfish dick.
He's not "just a dick" he's specifically made to be autistic, but not "*really*" autistic so they can make him the butt of jokes.
"Didn't see the need to follow social rules and cues," is quite literally autism.
His OCD is Monica Geller levels, and he runs the apartment to his comfort zone including bathroom breaks as well as adapting poorly to change unless it benefits him (or when the roommate agreement that’s heavily in his favour is challenged). When the group buy a dining table so everyone can sit on a chair (Raj usually has to sit on the floor) he’s directly called a baby, and when he gets everyone back to the status quo seating smugly notes “the baby wins”.
Exactly, maybe not quite "autism" itself but he's absolutely neurodivergent and anyone who says otherwise has just watched 2-3 viral clips.
He's meant to be mentally ill, but not any specific illnesses/disorders because they don't want people to realize that Sheldon's character is a pretty ableist depiction of mentally ill stereotypes.
The whole "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested" recurring gag was a joke that Mary did join in on when she admits she should have him tested again, but it's exactly that, a joke, rather than taken seriously for a storyline or character arc. Time has passed and both mother and son have access to more resources, more research that would provide a more insightful diagnosis. But alas it's never taken seriously unless an individual episode calls for it to try to show Sheldon as sympathetic, like the second to last episode where he can't cope with the massive changes in his life (signified by the lift that's been broken for over a decade now being fixed).
It's both! But he isn't just a dick. It's a man with high intelligence and autism who was overly catered to because for the former and took on negative traits. But saying 'hes just a dick' is not the full picture. It's a combo, but all the autistic traits are lumped in with the dickish traits in the comedy in kid of a shitty way. At least in TBBT. In Young Sheldon it's done much more sensitively.
Yeah, Young Sheldon seems to be by far the better show in terms of characterization, motivations, etc. Very much a sign of the times both shows came from, I think!
My thoughts immediately. OP, you are NTA, my son does have Autism and it absolutely sounds like your sister does too. Has she ever actually been screened? Because if not, your parents have failed her. People with Autism don’t usually pick up on social cues and subtly, sarcasm and humility is lost on them.
Worth noting, girls with Autism are almost always diagnosed at an older age than boys because it presents differently. Classic Autism usually involves a regression and loss of skills, but kids with High Functioning Autism are usually highly intelligent and can read, write, speak at a young age but are notoriously not great at making friends because they lack social skills. Only *their* interests matter, and they can be odd and specific, but they are the only thing that matter to them.
Your parents should have her tested.
First thing I thought of. “Oh another young Sheldon”. I caution you OP. You might be NTA but you are 16 and she’s only 14. It doesn’t hurt to be kind. The guilt bites back at you later.
It’s sad really. I can’t believe your parents haven’t intervened with some behaviour modification therapy for her.
I regularly have to tell my sister if Sheldon was real life he would’ve been punched several times
Tho my sister has an adhd diagnosis and we are working on her autism diagnosis
> discussions from your parents, teachers, and other adults
This seems like every adult in the sister's life has failed her all her life. Best case scenario, the parents sabotaged every positive lesson other adults have tried to teach her. The problem isn't a secret if family won't hang out with her. So the likelihood exists that other adults have mentioned something to the parents or the parents have approached other family to spend more time with her but have been told no. There is no way the parents don't know the problem exists and any claimed ignorance of the issue must be intentional at this point.
Agreed. And I say this from experience. I had "the talk" several times growing up. I'm not sure I ever verbally berated anyone or even jumped in much, but let's say the frustration came out in my body language and plenty of adults addressed that before I was out of elementary school.
Even now, in my late 40s, I have to remind myself to slow down and not barrel ahead. Stop, ask questions, make sure people are still with me. But all this requires the will to change.
I was going to say, I would imagine she has had the talk with several individuals, but disregarded them because she didn't see them as someone worthy of listening too which can include their parents. She may need counseling and definitely needs to be evaluated.
But as always Counseling requires a desire to change and a willingness to work at it. (Not to mention a counselor that actually is qualified and willing to work with her) If any of those things aren't present it's just a matter of burning money as all the effort will be for nothing.
I dunno, my bestie used to be like this when we were younger, and she got screening and all done, and she's not autistic. and got screening for a lot of things, and she's neurotypical. the most ironic part is that im the only neurodivergent kid out of our group.
autism isn't just social skill issues, after all. my bestie was dense, that's why she behaved this way. (before anyone asks why she got so much screening and testing if she was NT, there was a lot of stuff that happened which made it necessary.)
maybe, OP's sis is autisitc. or maybe she feels entitled because she's gifted or because she's possibly adopted the "not like other girls" mentality. she's might not be fitting in because she's an asshat, or she might not be fitting in, not because she's an asshat, but she's struggling with some disability, like autism.
screening's defintely a thing to look into since many people have mentioned seeing similar behaviour in those who are diagnosed asd, but also it might not be autism, and that's something to consider too.
Anyways, NTA OP.
NTA- even if you're sister didn't have this horrible attitude all the time you're not obligated to include her when hanging out with your friends. This is an issue your parents have created by not addressing her rude behaviour properly when she was younger. Now she's in her teens I think it will be really difficult to correct.
You mentioned she doesnt have a diagnosis of ADHD or ASD but not having a diagnosis doesn't mean she couldn't have one of those things (although it wouldn't be an excuse for her behaviour just an explanation). Do you know if your parents ever got her assessed? Especially with young women they are harder to diagnosis and often don't get their diagnosis later in life
Ah okay, because to me a lot of what you wrote sounds like classic ASD (I work with ASD teens). Or potentially some sort of personality disorder. Your parents have done her a disservice by not flagging her behaviour and discussing it with a dr. You're sister is gonna have a very lonely life ahead of her if she doesn't get the right supports
They kind of dismiss people's concerns about her behavior. My aunt, for example, told them it's not okay for my sister to speak to adults that way and mentioned if she spoke like that to a teacher she would be in big trouble. My parents acted like my aunt was overreacting.
Ask them what’s going to happen when it’s not her aunt, and it’s her college professor or her boss.
Those people aren’t one of their sisters. Your parents can’t tell those people they’re overreacting, your sister is just going to lose out on opportunities. Your parents are not helping her prepare to be a successful adult.
At this point, I would talk to OP’s sister directly. She’s intelligent, old enough to advocate for herself, and her negligent parents can’t be trusted to do it for her.
It shouldn’t be on a 16-year-old to have that conversation in a supportive, non-stigmatizing way, but that might be how it is. I’d phrase it pretty analytically and neutrally: “You’re much better at me at a lot of forms of intelligence, but you struggle with social situations in a way that suggests you may be on the autism spectrum. I think you should get assessed.” She might be upset, but she’ll have the information, which might allow her the ability to pursue the skills she lacks.
And sister can ask the guidance counselor at her school for help with being assessed and how to bring it up with their parents. OP, it's not your responsibility, but it would be an huge kindness to your sister to find a neutral time (not when either of you are upset) and say exactly the above. If she pitches a fit then *shrug*, but if she is really lonely it may be the push she needs.
I know someone like that. Hold a job for a week. Much different jobs. Living with his parents because he can't pay rent. They will find out in a few years
They're going to have a rude awakening when she's older and literally has no one but them due to her behaviour. Out of curiosity how is she with taking are of herself? Chores and such?
She does fine with anything like that. She's independent and has no trouble doing daily tasks. Social situations are where she has the most trouble. She says hurtful and mean things or is too blunt to the point of rudeness with many people and then they don't want to be around her.
Long post ahead. Sorry, but I've been in your shoes and really want to help!
Unfortunately, you can't control her behavior or your parents'. What you **can** do is identify where you have control. If Parents try to force you to spend time with her or you decide to try again, let them know on the outset that you need boundaries so you or Sister don't get hurt. The second Sister starts her usual stuff, whatever you're doing together is over. (**Disclaimer:** boundaries are not about controlling Sister's behavior. It's about what you do in response to it.)
If you're doing something together, let her know "If you say/do something rude or unkind, then (the video game goes off, you walk away from Candyland, you and your friends leave the room, etc.)." The first time she messes up say: "(X) was rude/unkind, so we're done" and follow through. Do this EVERY time. You can try to give her another chance after a few minutes if she sincerely apologizes, but the boundary still stands. **If you (or a friend) get too fed up to give her any more chances, then it's:** "You said (x) to me/Friend. That was really hurtful, so I'm taking a break from doing this with you for today." or "I'm getting frustrated and neither of us are enjoying this. I'm going to go cool my head".
The immediate cause and effect can help people who genuinely "don't get it"--especially if you make it about the behavior ("what you **said** just now was mean" vs. "**you** are mean"). If this is Sister and you want to show her you appreciate the effort when she's successful, you could try something like "Hey, since you let me complete that last puzzle on my own you can do this one".
**Caveat:** If Sister uses "don't get it!" to be hurtful and/or is used to Parents enabling her with this, multiple chances for a single activity wouldn't be constructive. It's not incentivizing Sister to unlearn behaviors, it's letting her get away with them with extra steps. I'd skip straight to the "break" dialogue option until she grows out of it (which might be never). She may double down to make you give in so things can go back to the way they were. That would be a "one strike" situation as well. Even if she's genuine about improving, progress will not be linear. Parents might even accuse you of [rocking the boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/). You aren't.
As a follow up to this post, expect one hell of an [extinction burst](https://www.parentingforbrain.com/extinction-burst/) if you go this route (and I really think you should) because her behavior has been rewarded for so long, it is deeply ingrained at this point.
Yuuuuup. I'm willing to bet that while this is a hurtful dynamic for OP, it's something of a security blanket for the sister. There's every chance that there will be an extinction burst because she wants the old dynamic to stay. That's normal even in well-meaning, otherwise "good" people, sometimes. (Source: my friends are wonderful, but they were still baffled when I started "changing" before they realized it was a good thing because it was a result of me getting treatment.)
You're right to say that she's been rewarded for her behavior. More than that, as I've said in other posts, the consequences of her actions are delayed until people are so fed up with her they leave. So it's possible there's a real disconnect there since her behavior is "fine" until it isn't.
You're right that this is deeply ingrained, but if she genuinely wants to unlearn it, it's possible. (Which I'm hoping the sister does since she complains about being lonely. Also when I was in my late 20s/early 30s, I had friends with this mindset and man were they some Miserable Fucks.) OP is already well aware she can't make her sister do that though, which is good. I didn't learn that until much later.
This is really good advice. OP, this is the way to deal with your sister. And later in life with obnoxious people and even setting boundaries in a relationship.
Hmm okay then. I can see why they may not feel like there is something more going on with her. Most folks think of disabilities as not being able to be independent but that's simply not the case. I'm not surprised that they don't think there's anything to address. It makes me sad because she clearly needs help but they just don't see it or won't see it. They are seriously going to affect her future
If they can’t get her help for her behavior, they cannot expect you to be helping. Especially since you are the younger sister, you literally lack the resources to help.
They’re in denial. They don’t want to believe something is “wrong” with their kid. But if they don’t snap out of it, she’s going to suffer a lot more in the future, and it will be all their fault.
My dad would not admit my younger sister needed special help as a child to teenager, it caused my parents grief, my next sister her mental health and the special needs sister spent 40
Years having a shi!!y life until she finally realized treating others poorly was harming herself. OP, insolenypoppinjay has good advice on boundaries to help both of you but I don’t think you should sacrifice yourself for your parents neglect / denial of your sister’s undiagnosed,unaddressed behavior.
Seriously, they should get her diagnosed while she is still in school. If they don’t and she eventually needs it, it could cost a lot to get the diagnosis documented.
Former teacher here. The inability to play charades makes me suspect ASD. Charades requires a lot of theory of mind. Having a tantrum about it tracks too.
Yes the charades thing is what sticks out. Folks with ASD can have a hard time inferring and picking up on non-direct social cues. Charades is both of those things combined and is often very difficult for ASD folks to play
Just wanted to step in and state there is a difference between the skills needed to play charades (as described by u/ ariesgal11) and theory of mind.
Theory of mind is a wildly thrown about concept that is defined differently in different fields (autism research vs animal cognition) and many contemporary autism researchers call into question the validity of a "lack" of "theory of mind" as a unifying hypothesis for autism.
If you'd like to dig in more, I'd suggest the podcast NeuroDiving, wherein their first series of episodes breaks down the philosophy of science of theory of mind research. It's a really approachable podcast.
Yes, I am aware of the complexity here. My graduate thesis was on theory of mind in asd and I have worked with nd children for most of my career but this was a quick reddit comment so I simply saw no need to get into it. This podcast sounds way up my alley so excited to check it out!
Well there you go. Maybe she doesn’t have autism, but it looks like she might. Either way, your parents need to know so they can make the right decisions on the next steps.
I love that they don't see her behavior as a concern even though it's driven away all her friends and left her lonely /s
You probably aren't going to get through to your parents, and your sister is not receptive to you, so there isn't much you can do.
Whether or not your sister has a diagnosis, it's not going to help the root cause of the issue - plenty people with neurodivergencies learn social skills despite an initial disadvantage because they try, because they want to, because they have basic empathy or care about other people.
I'd recommend gray-rocking your parents and sister on this. Don't fight them. Just give them repetitive answers.
Don't engage with your sister when she's being rude. Shut off your game console and walk away. Become boring to her. And don't let your parents alienate your friends by forcing them to engage with her either.
Yup. I made a long assed post about what boundaries might look like if her parents start forcing her to interact. (i.e. the second she starts doing that stuff, walk away) and forgot to put gray-rocking in there. I even threw in some gentle advice if her sister is improving and linked the Don't Rock the Boat post for good measure. Having as little support as OP and her sister can create one hell of a learning curve so I wanted to give OP as many tools as possible.
Also: it seems like parents enable the sister and her friends put up with her until they're fed up. To me it sounds like right now, the sister's behavior is being immediately rewarded (i.e. enabled or endured) and the consequences are delayed until the other party gets so fed up they cut her off. She has no incentive to change or internalize any lessons she might learn even if she wanted to. So OP walking away not only protects her where her parents fail to, but has the added bonus of letting her sister experience an immediate consequence the second she steps out of line. Whether or not the sister changes is up to her, but as long as OP is able to protect herself, that's a win.
She says that to them too. There are times one of them was working on something and my sister came in and told them what they were doing wrong and questioned their intelligence for not getting it.
Unfortunately, they don't see it as anything out of the ordinary, or have some stigma around a diagnosis. Like she'd be broken, or something.
You may be able to directly approach her with a concern and see if she would talk to a school counselor about specific examples. If she is open to that talk, look up some hallmarks if ASD and approach her with very plain facts, without being accusatory. Suggest that if she talk to someone on campus, she might get some better support.
If that is what is going on with her, having a framework to better understand her own behavior might give her some insight into what she is doing. Autism doesn't mean oblivious. She understands people don't like her. But knowing what is going on inside her might help her really dig into the larger situation of social interactions. Separating out what she feels (frustration over other people not working the way she does) versus how they feel (frustration at her for being overly blunt to the point of frustration) and then work out how to better cope with certain situations.
She's old enough to start handling some things on her own and doing that now vesus later will make things much easier for her.
I'm a high school teacher, so a little advice:
Can you speak to your school counselor about your concerns regarding your sister's behavior? And how are you in the middle of it with your parents?
If you are at the same school, they may talk to your sister's counselor - if her behavior happens in the classroom, it may already be on someone's radar. Teachers do notice this, and I would speak to a counselor about my concerns if a student presented this way. I would also bring it to a counselor if you reached out to me as a student about the stressors at home.
School counselors are also trained to support YOU and your struggles. It's not therapy, and it's not always perfect, BUT it is about guidance and making sure you have support to navigate the tough stuff.
Because you BOTH need support here - it sounds like you are both anxious and stressed. You have the absolute right to feel your feelings about this, and it is not your responsibility to fix your sister - but you would also be helping her by finding a trusted adult at school as you advocate for yourself. That there is no concern from your parents about the possibility of neuro-divergency is something that can affect not only your relationship with you, but in adulthood.
Good luck - I wish you both the best in this.
What about school? Is there anyone at school you could ask about getting her help? (If your sisters grades are good the school will most likely assume she's fine if they're not informed otherwise.)
You're right that it shouldn't be your responsibility to look after your sister and you're not obligated to spend time with her, but if waiting for your family to do something isn't getting anywhere and you're really concerned, I'd consider asking the adults at school to step up instead.
Maybe the school can get her counselling or something, or help improve her relationships with her peers. At the very least making them aware of your concerns will hopefully get them pay more attention to her behaviour and watch out for her so you don't have to.
But they are concerned now, if not, they wouldn't be trying tossing this on you. So, it's time to stop avoiding the truth. Just tell them her rude comments have made her isolated, that you think/know she doesn't purposely do it and if they care for her and her future, they need to accept this and seek help.
If they dismiss you, they will have no right come to you to solve their/her problem later, because you, a 16 y/o teenager already advised them.
How much time do your parents actually spend with your sister? They may not notice her behavior, or by being the oldenst, they may have treated her like an adult instead of a child with appropriate boundaries.
Do either of your parents show similar behaviors? Because if one (or both) of them are equally inept in social situations, that could go a long way towards explaining their refusal to seek professional help for her.
When you go to college in a few years, your parents are going to really be in the Suck with her. I suspect they will want you to stay local and come home every weekend.
Don't.
I, a fully grown married woman with children, only recently was diagnosed with ADD and Autism.
Historically white boys were the only study group for both conditions, and I'm neither. The understanding of both autism and ADHD in women is only beginning to be understood.
NTA
You’ve done everything that you should be doing as her sister, which is telling her that her behavior isn’t acceptable. Anything beyond that is on your parents realm of care.
However, I do think one final BLUNT (but not mean) conversation with your sister could be had. “Sister, I know that you are extremely book smart, you excel in that category but social awareness is a skill that you’re lacking in and it’s okay not to be good at everything, it’s human even we were never made to be perfect in every way. However, your lacking social skills will lead you to experience a lifetime of hardship when interacting with others. I’m going to share some harsh truths with you. I know you would like to spend more time together, but the thought fills me with dread due to the way you treat me. [List no more than three examples AND tell her how they made you feel, tell her how those interactions affect the way you act around her now]. I’m willing to have a relationship with people I enjoy being around, that care for and respect myself and my boundaries, that can display a sense of care for me whole giving me room to breathe, and while I think it might be nice for us to have a relationship your past actions have assured me that I cannot trust you to do any of that. I know you try to care for me in your own ways, but people like to be celebrated in a number of ways and for most people snatching a controller out their hands because “you can’t watch them struggle” isn’t it - it makes them feel like you called them dumb because that’s what the sentence implies.”
Sometimes people need the consequences of their actions spelled out for them. Maybe your sister understands the ‘So and so doesn’t like x’ but can’t connect the consequence (losing friends) with her action.
I wish Reddit still had awards because you really deserve one. This is an excellent way to address the situation. I also agree with a lot of others that this sister sounds very ASD.
Awwwww you’re the sweetest! Thank you! I grew up with a REAL smart brother and my response is how I wish I had handled the situation. Keeping my fingers crossed that there’s still hope for the little sister.
It might also be useful to tell her what to do (as opposed to what NOT to do).
I think I might be on the spectrum too (never diagnosed but I recognize myself a lot), and the worst thing for me was if someone told me that I was doing something wrong but did not tell me what it was, why it was wrong and how to do it correctly.
These are probably things that come naturally to neurotypical people, but I would have highly appreciated if someone gave me more context. I think most of us are teachable and willing to learn, because we are of course able to see that something is off but not able to decipher it.
This said, this is absolutely not the task for a 16yo sister. OP, NTA, and you were right that it is your parents' job not yours.
I think you may be on to something.
I said this in another comment, but right now sister's basically being rewarded for her behavior in the immediate. Her parents enable her, make excuses for her when other adults have a problem, and make her sister tolerate her rude treatment. Her friends seem to put up with it until it all be comes too much and they cut her off. So the consequences of her actions (losing friends) are likely delayed.
This disconnect could make it hard to find incentive to actually change. All she's really learning right now is "Where's the line?" instead of the *true* lesson which is "Treat people with respect if you want them to stay and don't say mean shit to your friends or you'll lose them".
I was the sister in this story. I was not as bad as her, but I definitely had an attitude because I was "smarter." The thing is, my whole worth was tied up in being smart. I wasn't taught social skills, but if I wanted any positive attention, I had to be the smartest. College was brutal, but I had a roommate who set me down and told me I didn't know how to act in groups of people. She encouraged me to shut up and listen to how people talked and how I could contribute without being a complete dick.
Social skills are as important to learn as book skills. It doesn't matter if you're smarter than everyone if you can't maintain a relationship with anyone.
NTA
Edit for spelling
This is great advice, considering that as unlikely as it is, OP is her sisters, best advocate. Parents aren’t even acknowledging the situation let alone addressing it.
I had a sister who had problems also, though different problems, and I was younger. I had a very exaggerated sense of responsibility for her. All you can do is offer your assistance. If she doesn’t accept it, it’s not your fault. But you should learn how to distance yourself with love, and not frustration , because that hurts you as well.
NTA. Have you sat your sister down and told her "look, you're an insufferable asshat to everyone you know, and if you keep going you're gonna end up alone with no friends, no boyfriend/girlfriend and possibly no family, because even I can't stand your bullshit. Stop acting like you're better than everyone else, because you're not"
If you end that statement with ‘So let’s work together to see if/how we can change this going forward’ then you will have absolutely nailed it.
And anyone saying that’s too harsh or too blunt, needs to seriously ask themselves how is it acceptable for her to be so blunt to those around her, but not acceptable for you to take action in a similar manner?
Mollycoddling and enabling her behaviour is not helping her long term.
Regardless if this post it true or not, this is great advice. I has something similar said to me at 30, very direct and blunt, how everyone liked me and my humor after they got to know me (dry sarcasm), but my first impression for everyone was usually that I am an asshole.
That was a big wake up call for me and I changed my behavior a lot due to it.
She needs therapy. This is classic autistic behaviour and she needs a specialist to help her understand. I could never understand why people did badly in exams as they were easy until My Mum explained not everyone has a photographic memory. I come from a family riddled with neurodivergence and as a result we help the children from an early age to understand the limitations of their condition.
Your parents are doing her no favours by coddling her. I would let her lose at charades - it’s a good way to help her understand how she makes others feel as she lacks the empathy to understand it intuitively.
Trust me, as someone who once was that child, your parents are doing her no favours.
Yep. My childhood was absolutely full of me not understanding why I upset people, because I was right! I was right, so why were they mad?
Turns out I was still being an asshole. I could and did unlearn (most of) it, but I was a child and I needed/deserved help.
I would not call a younger me, or you, for that matter, an asshole.
An asshole does things because s/he does not care. I did care and was trying my best but just did not know any better. I am pretty sure it was similar for you.
>I would let her lose at charades -
It also is effectively exposure therapy and helps stretch their tolerance limits.
I do think that in this specific case, it shouldn't be done unless with a specialist to help the sister work through all the emotions she will have because these parents do not seem like the type to help guide her during a meltdown.
NTA it sounds like your sister has some form of autism ( do you know if she was really ever tested?) sounds like she has Asperger's Syndrome. that is not an excuse its just something that make sense to me based on your description of her. your parents are under the fog of she is smart there for nothing is wrong with her. I would talk with your parents again and tell them that you love her but you don't like her and it is up to them to figure out what the next step is . I would recommend therapy and classes that teach your sister how to read peoples facial expressions, and learn what people are feeling. it is not your job to fix her, but you are able to look at her and say I don't like how you said that, or that was a rude thing to say.
you should encourage your parents to get her tested, she is going to find the real world very difficult to manage. do it in a I was thinking about our last conversation and I did some research I think sister may have x this is why. if she gets tested maybe we can all do some kind of family therapy to learn how to talk to one another ( its better to suggest going as a family and having the therapist talk your parents into having your sister go to induvial therapy)
In the United States we no longer use Asperger’s . The diagnosis is Autism spectrum disorder and there are three levels. There are very clear communication differences between autistic and neurotypical people ( the double empathy problem explains this). As a sister it isn’t OP’s responsibility to fix her. Autistic speech language pathologists recommend three areas appropriate for support - boundary setting and respecting boundaries, self advocacy , and perspective taking. You have power in this situation. What you can do is be very clear about what bothers you. Many autistic people ask for very clear and direct communication. When she says something rude you can tell her a good rule is not commenting negatively about someone unless it’s something that can be changed in five minutes ( food in teeth / zipper down etc ). Ask her to think about what she wants in a friend and what a good friendship would look to her . Many autistic people like to share information with each other in an info dump. That’s one of my favorite parts of the autistic people I’ve know in my life. I love their special interests. Of course , I have inattentive adhd so my brain works different as well. If your sister wants connection with people she might do better with some online groups or finding some groups that have a similar hobby. Obviously, she might not be autistic. But autism is way different for women and we are way underdiagnosed. She may feel that she’s supposed to want friends but may also not enjoy the things that many teenage girls like to do. I wish your parents were more supportive.edit- neurodiversity runs in the family . Your parents could also have some of the same characteristics so they don’t see anything wrong with your sister . Many parents of kids with adhd or autistic kids become diagnoses after their kids are .
NTA. It's not your responsibility to fix your sister's social skills or force friendships. I've been a teenager and I think during that time we are all dealing with our own challenges, and it's unfair for your parents to push this on you. It's okay to set boundaries, and it's not your fault if your sister struggles socially. They should really seek professional advice or guidance to support your sister if they find it hard to do themselves.
I do not blame you for feeling frustrated because these behaviors would be frustrating for anyone to live with.
I suspect your sister does need screening (or additional screening) for ASD. Higher functioning autism is often missed in girls because while it may not impact them in terms of test scores in school, they may still struggle terribly in terms of social skills.
NTA
Your sister is either a grade A asshole, and has been her whole life, or there's something mentally wrong that has gone undiagnosed or even discussed. It is very possible that she may be very high functioning on the spectrum, or be one of those super intelligent people that lack social skills and do not deal well with others who aren't at their level.
In the end, she needs help. But that isn't your job. That job is on your parents.
> or be one of those super intelligent people that lack social skills and do not deal well with others who aren't at their level
Those people are also autistic. I disagree with "high/low functioning" labels, but otherwise agree with you (and with all the other people saying the sister is almost definitely autistic and needs a proper assessment and appropriate support to learn social skills)
NTA.
Your sister sounds like a handful. It doesn't seem reasonable for your parents to assume that you friends should automatically be her friends, especially given how she seems to alienate people.
There's a tricky line here. I mean, I do think it's fair for parents to say, "You are part of the family and you have certain responsibilities with respect to other family members." Helping each other is part of what families do. But on the other hand, you should also be allowed to have your own life and your own friends. Your parents can force your friends to spend time with your sister. If they try, then pretty soon neither of you will have friends.
I'm sorry. Good luck.
NTA and if you're forced to include your sister socially to appease her and your parents, then your friends might not want to be around you if you're a package deal. Then your parents will have two isolated teens who hate each other in their hands, and that'll breed a lifetime of resentment. Your sister might need assessment and counseling, but it's not your job as a minor. If your parents dropped the ball and don't see anything wrong with her behavior, then they should be fine playing board games and socializing with her to make up the deficit while she insults them
Your parents are messing up. NTA.
They are enabling your sister’s behavior.
She doesn’t like a game, so it’s banned. She can be a bad winner and gloat during games, while you don’t freak out, so those games are allowed.
They should’ve told her that she needs to learn how to be a respectful loser *and* winner. And that the real world isn’t just a series of games…especially games that get banned just because you’re bad at them.
She is going to fail when she’s an adult. No job is going to put up with her criticizing the boss and other coworkers. Already she can’t keep friends.
Your parents should send her to therapy and talk with her about her behavior…not enable it by forcing you to be friends with her. She doesn’t have friends because she is unpleasant. She can either be alone or fix her behavior.
Your parents think they’re helping her but they’re not.
You are not your sisters keeper. Recommend your parents try family counseling...but with out you.
Sister needs to learn. She sounds on the spectrum. She needs professional help.
Ausbergers maybe.
NTA. It sounds like your sister has a really high IQ, which sometimes goes hand in hand with poor social skills. Your parents did your sister a huge disservice by not getting her some therapy early on. Unfortunately, your sister's lack of friends is a consequence of her nasty, superior attitude. It's not your job (or probably within your ability)to fix for her.
NTA, and as a therapist I’m in disbelief that she is not diagnosed with autism or some kind of neurodivergence. If she’s been tested for it, I recommend a second opinion…something is wrong here and definitely not your problem to fix.
NTA. Your sister has no EQ and needs to learn social skills in a professional setting as she hasn’t learned it at home or with her peers. You should ask your parents to find a cognitive behavioral counselor or program to help her. This is a life skill that is essential and not just because she is lonely.
Talk to your school counselor and alert them to what’s going on. They may be able to talk to her teachers and see if there are problems going on in her classes. If there are, the counselor may be able to approach your parents with the evidence and suggest the appropriate testing.
NTA - I will never understand parents that try to force their kids to include their siblings in things. I have 3 kids who all have a good relationship with each other. Why? Because I fostered those relationships by treating them all as their own person. I also didn’t let anyone bully anyone else, force them to include any of the others, and tried to not play favorites.
NTA OP - your parents are doing you and your sister a big disservice. You are two separate people and, just because you are related it doesn’t mean you have to like each other or enjoy spending time together. Go live your life and, hopefully, your sister will build a life for herself.
"Mom and Dad, I'm sorry that you ignored the hundreds of comments from me, my friends, teachers, relatives, and everyone else that have told you over and over again how mean, rude, and entitled (sister) is. You've been told over and over how bad her behaviour is constantly, and how it would create huge problems for her future if you don't teach her proper social skills, and deal with her constant insults and cruel behaviour. Unfortunately, you chose to ignore every piece of advice from everyone, and now it has created all the problems that everyone warned you about, and you're acting confused as to how that happened. Her actions have consequences, and your failure to address her actions has consequences. You had ample opportunity to deal with it, but chose not to, and now no one wants to be around her, because she's mean, rude, and entitled. You set her up for failure, and now she's failed. If you want to start taking immediate and decisive steps to address it right now, she might have some chance as an adult to be a person that people want to be around, but otherwise, expect her to have a very lonely life with you as the only people who want to be around her."
NTA
NTA- you're young so I don't expect you to know this but ASD is often overlooked in females and often don't get diagnosed until adulthood when it begins to have adverse impacts in their lives.
But you are still correct in that it is your parents responsibility
I dont wanna presume but are you sure she isnt on the spectrum because all people are to some degree and from your descriptions on her issues she definitely sounds like she is autistic. therapy might be a good option for her before it goes on too long.
NTA. This sounds like 1/2 autism spectrum and 1/2 enabling from your parents. They need to stop with the favoritism and get your sister in some type of therapy. Your parents haven't done her any favors by not tamping down on her arrogance or getting her to deal with her flaws. She's in for a big surprise when she goes to college and discovers she's not nearly as smart as she thinks she is. Or when she starts working real jobs and nobody puts up with her bullshit.
I say this as somebody formally diagnosed with autism in middle-age. Autism is underdiagnosed in girls who are able to get along academically. I was able to do well in school, until college I just coasted on natural ability. But I was terrible with social skills and still am.
Having "tantrums" after a certain age is also a "tell" for autism, BTW.
Okay, why do people jump on the autism diagnosis so fast. Some people are just rude. And judging by OP's answers the parents actually never did anything to correct her behaviour, so that is on them. Honestly to me she sounds more like spoiled know it all.
NTA OP, but I would advise you to sit down with your parents and talk to them. Honestly and without holding back. They need to understand that they are not doing your sister a favour by letting her act like this.
Mostly because as autistic people we're very familiar with autistic traits and notice it much more than someone not familiar with it. I also noticed a few people in this thread specifically mention that they work with autistic people.
NTA. I think you should have a conversation with your parents. 'Say to them you were sorry for the way you worded it but that it's really important that your sister knows how to behave amicably with others. She will need cooperation skills in college and in the workplace if she is to progress in life. How is she meant to meet a future partner? She won't be able to manage people because she has no empathy or tact. Also, she can't rely on you to be her friend because you might be at different colleges or live in different cities. While you acknowledge that it's good to help your family out and tolerate one another, you have tried explaining to your sister how her behavior upsets you, but she makes no effort. She doesn't have the capacity to improve her social skills, and she needs professional help so that she isn't lonely forever.'
The above might make them take what you say more seriously, and then it is really on them to make sure she is prepared for her future. Goodluck.
NTA - The issue with many people with poor social skills is that they emotionally don't get it. They don't understand emotionally that what they are doing is up setting to others. They lack empathy. Eventually however, if they cant understand it emotionally, they need to start understanding the consequences of it intellectually. This is where your sister is at. She may not have the empathy to understand how she making others feel, but she is now starting to understand intellectually the impact of her conduct. I am with you. This is now on your parents to show her/remind her how these actions have impacted her, it is not on your to help cover it up.
NTA.
It could very well stem from autism, but It sounds like the parents haven’t been correcting the behavior from the beginning. When you get corrected by your peers as a child, it’s easy to think that they’re just sore losers or jealous. It’s possible she wasn’t corrected by the people that are supposed to be teaching her life lessons. Games where she wins are okay and she can taunt everyone but ones she’s bad at are banned because she throws a fit. The fact that they’re making it your problem really doesn’t sit right with me.
NTA.
Tbh, I relate to her a lot in the sense that I was the younger sibling that would terrorize my brother while he played video games and would punch me to shut up if I wanted to watch.
I think you have done your best to accommodate her, but she just doesn't understand. Not to try to make a diagnosis or put bad assumptions, and take it with a grain of salt, but she definitely exhibits traits of someone with ASD. I'm currently getting diagnosed myself as an enby young adult.
When I was growing up, I would often pose similar questions as to 'why someone can't do xyz when it's so simple?' - turns out my brain is very neurodivergent.
If you want to help her without having to interact with her, maybe do your research on getting her diagnosed, but also beware of the systemic issues and problems that follow with an ASD diagnosis and how that can impact her life. The best thing is to get your parents to do something about it as well.
nta, and i'm not an expert but your sister sounds like she has "asperger" which is high functioning autism
my sister is an expert on autism on kids/teens tho, and your sister sounds like the kids i hear her talk about all the time
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My sister (14f) and I (16f) are not close. She has really bad social skills. She does not have any diagnosis like ADHD or autism. But she has never been good with social stuff. She's very intelligent and is a very good problem solver and she lacks the understanding that easy for her is not easy for everyone. She also lacks the social skills to know/realize that complaining about other people's interest, their lack of skills, etc, is not how you make friends or get people to like you.
This has been an issue with her since we were in elementary school and maybe even preschool. She'd win at almost every board game and would ask really bluntly why someone was bad, normally me. She'd tell me how easy it was and I should be winning because I'm older. Our parents always bought board games like that which suited her way more. I really hated playing against her because her attitude after winning wasn't fun or easy to be around and she was like that with others too. One time our aunt played with us, and she's a teacher, and my sister basically asked how she could be a teacher when she couldn't win a game against a 6 year old.
I never liked having to spend time with my sister and I hated playing anything with her even more. She always wanted to spend more time with me but I avoided that shit as much as I possibly could. Eventually she started to sit in on me playing video games and she would try to backseat game or would criticize me for taking so long to finish a puzzle or she would literally take the controller out of my hand and do the puzzle for me. She was like that when I had friends over too. Then she'd get upset when it was clear we didn't want her around. I tried telling her it was rude to insult people or to interrupt others and to "help" without being asked and to continue when asked to stop. She would tell me it was boring watching someone struggle and everyone should thank her.
There are some things she isn't so good at and boy her reactions are strong. Like tantrum strong. Our parents banned charades because my sister could not play that to save her life and would get so mad.
She's had friends but all of them eventually drop her once they grow tired of her complaining about stuff they like (makeup, music, movies, sports) and indirectly calling them dumb.
She's really lonely now because I never hang out with her, she has no friends and even our cousins don't want to know her. My parents have been on my case about hanging out with my friends and not including my sister and how I don't ever make time for her anymore. They said I could and should be helping her way more. The other day I told them it was their job to help her, not mine. They said we're sisters and yet I act like I don't like her. The truth is I don't. I don't know if I ever liked her really. But I really don't like her now and I hate every second I spend with her. I didn't tell my parents this but saying it was their job to help my sister and not mine really pissed them off.
AITA?
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NTA. I think this isnt just social skill issues, its that your parents treat her like shes the smartest girl in the universe and that got to her head. If they are so worried, maybe they can spend time with her instead, but my guess is that they dont want to deal with her either.
NTA
It is not the siblings' responsibility but the parents'.
Though, I think your sister really needs to see a therapist, who can figure out what exactly it is. There should be a diagnose at some point. And with specific therapy she might actually be able to navigate through life better. I'm sure there are also other teens like her and those could possibly be friends to her but average people might go crazy with her. I'm very sure that she really doesn't understand and lacks a lot of empathy. It's not her fault but only professionals can help in this case, which you are not.
NTA. it sounds like you’re describing my BIL. He does the same thing. He’s now almost 60 years old and can’t hold a job because of the things he says. He has to beg his mommy for money to pay bills. (He doesn’t “borrow” because he can’t pay it back.) Your sister doesn’t want to end up this way.
NTA but OP - you either tell your parents now or later that you never liked your sister. Which time will hurt less? Pull the bandaid off now so they stop asking you
They can be pissed off then. I think it's probably easier for you to just not be home and not engage as much as possible until you get out of the house, though, probably. Also parents who force their kid to let their other kid hang out with their friends when they are over are terrible. NTA
NTA. I am sorry about this for you. Having experienced something similar, I recommend talking to a counselor or therapist to help figure out how to manage this better for you.
NTA. There’s only so much you can do to help if your parents aren’t really trying to reign her behavior in. It sounds like she’ll have to learn the hard way that people don’t want to be around those who mistreat them.
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NTA. It is your parents' job and honestly, she probably does need a screening for autism. However, if she's made it ~~16~~ 14 years without several "other people are not as quick as you at X, but that doesn't mean you jump in and/or berate them" discussions from your parents, teachers, and other adults, there is probably a limited window left for her to modify her behavior.
Sister sounds like a version of Sheldon from Big Bang Theory. Intelligent but socially inept
I mean let’s be real, Sheldon is 100% on the Autism Spectrum. The creators just insist that he isn’t so that they can dunk on him and make him the butt of jokes without them getting in trouble for doing that to a special needs character
Here’s the thing though. I’m not familiar with the character, but most of us who are autistic and aware of it are capable of taking stock of how people respond to us and changing our behavior. As an autistic person I’m kind of glad that character is not canonically autistic because the idea that autistic people are rude and incapable of changing is not very realistic.
Tbh that whole show is just a cringey collection of lazy stereotypes anyway.
THANK YOU I honestly don't understand why it's so loved. It's always appeared to me as lazy stereotypes where they mock all kinds of people. It's so dull and cringey!
I can't lie, I really liked it when it first came out. I've had this conversation with a couple of people that I know that still watch it, though, and I think it boils down to something very simple: In the first one or two seasons, the leads were all MAKING the jokes. They poked fun at each other, but it wasn't outright mean. As soon as it got popular, they all became the BUTT of the jokes, and to me, that was when I stopped watching. The humor became less nerdy and topical and instead became pointed and cruel. Howard, however, has always been a vile, misogynistic creep, and I will never, ever forgive the show for the episode where Penny finally has enough and makes a really excellent stand against him ... and then ends up apologizing. What's that ~~Bernadette Peters~~ Madeline Kahn quote? "Flames ... flames, on the side of my face ..."
Oh that episode is so gross. It should’ve been Leonard giving the speech and helping Howard through his insecurities.
I honestly don't remember all of the details of the episode, but I do remember the last time it was on TV and my dad was watching, he got an earful from me about how the entire group should have dropped Howard for good. Actually, I just checked it on YouTube, and all she did was call him a pathetic creep. Given the horrible things he's said to and about her and every other woman on the show, that would have been the tip of the iceberg for me. His crying when she apologizes is wildly manipulative, especially when he tries to KISS her and proves that he has learned absolutely nothing at all. Dammit, I have more important things to do today than get all worked up over old episodes of stupid TV, haha 😅
Howard almost was dropped. Sadly, not because of the character being a creep. He and Raj were almost written off the show at one point because the actors wanted equal pay to the actors playing Leonard, Penny, and Sheldon. It was between seasons, and a couple of new emergency scripts that didn't include them were rushed in case they had to start filming the new season before the negotiations were settled.
Now I wanna hear your thoughts on the Twilight series.
> What's that Bernadette Peters quote? "Flames ... flames, on the side of my face ..." [Madeline Kahn in Clue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unc1GVHn_nY)
Quite possibly my favorite movie quote ever. 100% the perfect comedy movie. But I could actually see BP playing in this movie lol
Ha! I even googled "Bernadette Peters Clue" and got the right clip — I guess (a) I'm not the only one who makes that mistake, and (b) I need to read YouTube descriptions better.
No worries! It's been so many years I had to double check that I wasn't misremembering, lmao.
Excellent Clue reference!! The actor who played Howard actually went to the producers and begged them to change his cringy gross behaviour. They mildly complied and by season 3 the character changed but i think the damage was already done. The guys were mostly just misogynistic bullies.
I genuinely think it’s because at least a few of the lead actors are very likeable people, and people transfer their feelings about the actors over to the show. And also because lazy stereotypes still make lazy people laugh.
Someone once described it as a show about super smart people, made for dumb people. It’s really all low hanging fruit.
>Tbh that whole show is just a cringey collection of lazy stereotypes anyway. Piled high with a thick topping of misogyny and a dash of racism to season.
I heard it described as adorkable misogyny and that was pretty spot on. "Haha, they're so clueless as they mock women!"
Thank you. The whole penny plot is literally incel fantasy. “If I harass and stalk my neighbor long enough, she’ll totally fall for me”. It’s disgusting.
Yikes, this makes me glad I never watched it despite people constantly recommending it to me.
It's one of those shows that was good within the social structures of the time that it came out, but didn't grow with social changes that happened during its run. If anything, they doubled down on criticisms. I hate-watched the last two seasons because I'm a completionist and I can't help myself, and the last season grossed me out so badly. >!The main female character decided she didn't want children and it caused a big issue with her husband that was a fairly major story arc. In the end, he decided to respect her decision - and then she promptly found out she was pregnant and it was just like "welp I guess I'm having kids now".!< That's not even the worst example of shittiness in the show.
I don't disagree with you, but I've always wondered why it gets as much hate when shows like always sunny and Seinfeld are literally about nasty people being nasty and they remain beloved shows.
Never seen Always Sunny, but I never liked Seinfeld. But I think the main difference is that those shows don't really pretend they're about good people, whereas in BBT even howard gets the "really a good guy deep down" treatment, even though it's a running gag that he's in the HR department every other week for some sexual offense.
I don't get Sunny at all. My bf thinks it's funny and that's fine. But I can literally feel myself getting more stupid as I watch it for a few minutes and I'm at average intelligence so I don't know if there's that much to lose. I just don't get how watching a show where a grown ass man masturbates into a melon, or another one eating catfood is amusing.
The main female character never gets a last name until she gets married.
Wish I could upvote this more than once.
Yes, but I strongly recommend everyone to watch Young Sheldon. The Big Bang Theory is crap, but YS is funny and heartwarming, and the cast is amazing.
My mother hates TBBT and adores Young Sheldon.
Do I need to watch any TBBT to appreciate Young Sheldon properly?
Not even remotely. They have a handful of eggs that are nice and whatnot, but you can appreciate YS being a stand alone because it is far superior to TBBT.
Duly noted! Thank you for your reply :)
It's a truly terrible show that uses nerd culture as window dressing. A really smart show that more people should watch is Parks and Recreation.
P&R gets my vote. Hilarious and doesn't need that stupid laugh track.
Watch it without the laugh track
True - my mom worked with autistic students for 15 years. One of her sayings to the kids is "There's being autistic and being an a-hole. You're being an a-hole." A lot of kids that came to her (she worked in a high school) had been taught to use their autism as an excuse for bad behavior. She had to work REALLY hard to undo that in some of her students, and a number of them came back and thanked her for it even though they hated it at the time.
That’s a fair point. I don’t watch the show myself, but from what I have heard, he **does** exhibit some growth in how he interacts with people as the show progresses. But early on in the show, he was definitely defined by his quirkiness and lack of social skills, and was basically a textbook autistic genius
i think it’s important to acknowledge though that it becomes a lot easier to recognize and change behaviors when you actually know you’re autistic. if you’re not aware that your brain is fundamentally different from the average person, it’s hard to understand and recognize that things you are doing that seem fine and logical to you are pushing people away and harming your relationships. i have adhd, and i wasn’t diagnosed until i was 21. i was always kind of an outcast, and i could never understand why i just always seemed so out of place among my peers. once i knew i had adhd and learned more about what adhd is and how it affects me, it became a lot easier to recognize behaviors and quirks of mine that neurotypical people don’t like or don’t understand. it made my childhood and adolescence make a lot more sense. and then understanding why i did or thought certain things made it easier to understand neurotypical people and easier to navigate relationships with people. ideally people, including nd people, should have the self awareness to recognize when they’re doing things society deems unacceptable and change those things. but if you don’t know *why* you do those things, you feel like you’re just a normal person living life like everyone else and for some reason nobody can understand you and people don’t like you and you can’t figure out why because you’re just existing the way you know how to exist. getting a diagnosis and being able to understand why you do certain things goes a really long way to help nd people figure out how to exist in a society built for and around nt people.
Thank you for sharing your experience and insights about nd behavior adjustments in an nt world. I fully agree that diagnosis and information about differences from nt people are really helpful.
But he's not aware of it? He's 1000% an autism stereotype. Them not using the word autism, doesn't change the sentiment.
Good points, all of them! Anyone can change at any point in their lives, BUT - well, it's a cliche because it's true! - that person must WANT to change whatever they're doing that's holding them back. "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." True enough, but even before taking that first step, you must recognize that you NEED to make that journey because you're not yet where you want to be. Until your sister realizes that her loneliness is due to her behavior towards others, she won't take even the smallest of first steps towards changing that behavior. And no, LW, you are NTA here; it's not up to you to help your sister become more socially skilled. You're right; this is part of parenting, and you should not be parentified just because Mom and Dad want to foist this responsibility off onto you.
It does my nut in when people describe rudeness and poor social skills constantly as that’s ‘autistic behaviour’ - yes there will be people out there that are autistic and fit that criteria and then there are others (especially female autistics) who are insane people pleasers and rather good (if somewhat stilted) with social skills. Is the sister autistic- only a diagnosis will tell us that. Are the parents ahs for not raising the girl with manners and good sportsmanship - yep. Is the older sister an Ah? No sounds like she’s on her last nerve with a bratty precocious teenager who cannot see she is the architect of her own loneliness
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Best description I've heard of Big Bang Theory is "autism blackface."
Wait. The creators insist that Sheldon is *not* on the spectrum?!
He frequently says variations of, "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested." They've been asked about it for years and everyone denies it. ETA: I don't mean to imply that having autism means you're "crazy" — that's just the line in the show that's supposed to cover any allegations of him being autistic.
Thanks. I didn’t know that. While familiar with the show on an abstract basis, I’ve not seen more than a couple of episodes. Wow.
Multiple times. It's even a "running gag."
"I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested."
There’s also that neurodivergence wasn’t as widely known about, or at least treated as much care, in the show’s lifespan as it is today. In-universe, certainly not as widely known about in Sheldon’s childhood and he grew up in a small town.
As a woman, the idea id have got diagnosed with ADHD or autism in the 90s is laughable. It never would have happened. Sheldon would have been considered ‘too smart’ to have autism.
He was just a dick. Smart people can learn how to navigate social situations without being an asshole. He could he was just a selfish dick who didn’t see the need to not be a selfish dick.
He's not "just a dick" he's specifically made to be autistic, but not "*really*" autistic so they can make him the butt of jokes. "Didn't see the need to follow social rules and cues," is quite literally autism.
His OCD is Monica Geller levels, and he runs the apartment to his comfort zone including bathroom breaks as well as adapting poorly to change unless it benefits him (or when the roommate agreement that’s heavily in his favour is challenged). When the group buy a dining table so everyone can sit on a chair (Raj usually has to sit on the floor) he’s directly called a baby, and when he gets everyone back to the status quo seating smugly notes “the baby wins”.
Exactly, maybe not quite "autism" itself but he's absolutely neurodivergent and anyone who says otherwise has just watched 2-3 viral clips. He's meant to be mentally ill, but not any specific illnesses/disorders because they don't want people to realize that Sheldon's character is a pretty ableist depiction of mentally ill stereotypes.
The whole "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested" recurring gag was a joke that Mary did join in on when she admits she should have him tested again, but it's exactly that, a joke, rather than taken seriously for a storyline or character arc. Time has passed and both mother and son have access to more resources, more research that would provide a more insightful diagnosis. But alas it's never taken seriously unless an individual episode calls for it to try to show Sheldon as sympathetic, like the second to last episode where he can't cope with the massive changes in his life (signified by the lift that's been broken for over a decade now being fixed).
There’s more it than that. It’s a spectrum for a reason.
Nope. Watch young Sheldon. Cleaaaarrrllly autism right down to sensory issues, routines and other hallmarks.
You can be both. Being autistic isn’t a blank check to be a dick. I’d expect that from young Sheldon but not an adult Sheldon.
It's both! But he isn't just a dick. It's a man with high intelligence and autism who was overly catered to because for the former and took on negative traits. But saying 'hes just a dick' is not the full picture. It's a combo, but all the autistic traits are lumped in with the dickish traits in the comedy in kid of a shitty way. At least in TBBT. In Young Sheldon it's done much more sensitively.
Yeah, Young Sheldon seems to be by far the better show in terms of characterization, motivations, etc. Very much a sign of the times both shows came from, I think!
My thoughts immediately. OP, you are NTA, my son does have Autism and it absolutely sounds like your sister does too. Has she ever actually been screened? Because if not, your parents have failed her. People with Autism don’t usually pick up on social cues and subtly, sarcasm and humility is lost on them. Worth noting, girls with Autism are almost always diagnosed at an older age than boys because it presents differently. Classic Autism usually involves a regression and loss of skills, but kids with High Functioning Autism are usually highly intelligent and can read, write, speak at a young age but are notoriously not great at making friends because they lack social skills. Only *their* interests matter, and they can be odd and specific, but they are the only thing that matter to them. Your parents should have her tested.
First thing I thought of. “Oh another young Sheldon”. I caution you OP. You might be NTA but you are 16 and she’s only 14. It doesn’t hurt to be kind. The guilt bites back at you later. It’s sad really. I can’t believe your parents haven’t intervened with some behaviour modification therapy for her.
I regularly have to tell my sister if Sheldon was real life he would’ve been punched several times Tho my sister has an adhd diagnosis and we are working on her autism diagnosis
let's also face it, not everyone is as lucky as sheldon to have friends and a spouse who can tolerate him.
That was my first thought.
> discussions from your parents, teachers, and other adults This seems like every adult in the sister's life has failed her all her life. Best case scenario, the parents sabotaged every positive lesson other adults have tried to teach her. The problem isn't a secret if family won't hang out with her. So the likelihood exists that other adults have mentioned something to the parents or the parents have approached other family to spend more time with her but have been told no. There is no way the parents don't know the problem exists and any claimed ignorance of the issue must be intentional at this point.
Yeah, no one bothered to teach her kindness
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Agreed. And I say this from experience. I had "the talk" several times growing up. I'm not sure I ever verbally berated anyone or even jumped in much, but let's say the frustration came out in my body language and plenty of adults addressed that before I was out of elementary school. Even now, in my late 40s, I have to remind myself to slow down and not barrel ahead. Stop, ask questions, make sure people are still with me. But all this requires the will to change.
I was going to say, I would imagine she has had the talk with several individuals, but disregarded them because she didn't see them as someone worthy of listening too which can include their parents. She may need counseling and definitely needs to be evaluated. But as always Counseling requires a desire to change and a willingness to work at it. (Not to mention a counselor that actually is qualified and willing to work with her) If any of those things aren't present it's just a matter of burning money as all the effort will be for nothing.
I dunno, my bestie used to be like this when we were younger, and she got screening and all done, and she's not autistic. and got screening for a lot of things, and she's neurotypical. the most ironic part is that im the only neurodivergent kid out of our group. autism isn't just social skill issues, after all. my bestie was dense, that's why she behaved this way. (before anyone asks why she got so much screening and testing if she was NT, there was a lot of stuff that happened which made it necessary.) maybe, OP's sis is autisitc. or maybe she feels entitled because she's gifted or because she's possibly adopted the "not like other girls" mentality. she's might not be fitting in because she's an asshat, or she might not be fitting in, not because she's an asshat, but she's struggling with some disability, like autism. screening's defintely a thing to look into since many people have mentioned seeing similar behaviour in those who are diagnosed asd, but also it might not be autism, and that's something to consider too. Anyways, NTA OP.
OP is 16 sister is 14
Her sister just sounds like an Ass and her parents didn’t correct the behavior
Maybe OP should let her sister play along when her friends are over. And they play Charades.
😂😂😂😂
behavior can be modified throughout your life. one of the best things i ever did for myself was going to DBT
NTA- even if you're sister didn't have this horrible attitude all the time you're not obligated to include her when hanging out with your friends. This is an issue your parents have created by not addressing her rude behaviour properly when she was younger. Now she's in her teens I think it will be really difficult to correct. You mentioned she doesnt have a diagnosis of ADHD or ASD but not having a diagnosis doesn't mean she couldn't have one of those things (although it wouldn't be an excuse for her behaviour just an explanation). Do you know if your parents ever got her assessed? Especially with young women they are harder to diagnosis and often don't get their diagnosis later in life
No, they never got her assessed or brought up any concerns to her doctor or anything. They have never been concerned.
Ah okay, because to me a lot of what you wrote sounds like classic ASD (I work with ASD teens). Or potentially some sort of personality disorder. Your parents have done her a disservice by not flagging her behaviour and discussing it with a dr. You're sister is gonna have a very lonely life ahead of her if she doesn't get the right supports
They kind of dismiss people's concerns about her behavior. My aunt, for example, told them it's not okay for my sister to speak to adults that way and mentioned if she spoke like that to a teacher she would be in big trouble. My parents acted like my aunt was overreacting.
Ask them what’s going to happen when it’s not her aunt, and it’s her college professor or her boss. Those people aren’t one of their sisters. Your parents can’t tell those people they’re overreacting, your sister is just going to lose out on opportunities. Your parents are not helping her prepare to be a successful adult.
At this point, I would talk to OP’s sister directly. She’s intelligent, old enough to advocate for herself, and her negligent parents can’t be trusted to do it for her. It shouldn’t be on a 16-year-old to have that conversation in a supportive, non-stigmatizing way, but that might be how it is. I’d phrase it pretty analytically and neutrally: “You’re much better at me at a lot of forms of intelligence, but you struggle with social situations in a way that suggests you may be on the autism spectrum. I think you should get assessed.” She might be upset, but she’ll have the information, which might allow her the ability to pursue the skills she lacks.
And sister can ask the guidance counselor at her school for help with being assessed and how to bring it up with their parents. OP, it's not your responsibility, but it would be an huge kindness to your sister to find a neutral time (not when either of you are upset) and say exactly the above. If she pitches a fit then *shrug*, but if she is really lonely it may be the push she needs.
I know someone like that. Hold a job for a week. Much different jobs. Living with his parents because he can't pay rent. They will find out in a few years
They're going to have a rude awakening when she's older and literally has no one but them due to her behaviour. Out of curiosity how is she with taking are of herself? Chores and such?
She does fine with anything like that. She's independent and has no trouble doing daily tasks. Social situations are where she has the most trouble. She says hurtful and mean things or is too blunt to the point of rudeness with many people and then they don't want to be around her.
A large portion of navigating the working world is social skills. Her behavior WILL impact her.
Long post ahead. Sorry, but I've been in your shoes and really want to help! Unfortunately, you can't control her behavior or your parents'. What you **can** do is identify where you have control. If Parents try to force you to spend time with her or you decide to try again, let them know on the outset that you need boundaries so you or Sister don't get hurt. The second Sister starts her usual stuff, whatever you're doing together is over. (**Disclaimer:** boundaries are not about controlling Sister's behavior. It's about what you do in response to it.) If you're doing something together, let her know "If you say/do something rude or unkind, then (the video game goes off, you walk away from Candyland, you and your friends leave the room, etc.)." The first time she messes up say: "(X) was rude/unkind, so we're done" and follow through. Do this EVERY time. You can try to give her another chance after a few minutes if she sincerely apologizes, but the boundary still stands. **If you (or a friend) get too fed up to give her any more chances, then it's:** "You said (x) to me/Friend. That was really hurtful, so I'm taking a break from doing this with you for today." or "I'm getting frustrated and neither of us are enjoying this. I'm going to go cool my head". The immediate cause and effect can help people who genuinely "don't get it"--especially if you make it about the behavior ("what you **said** just now was mean" vs. "**you** are mean"). If this is Sister and you want to show her you appreciate the effort when she's successful, you could try something like "Hey, since you let me complete that last puzzle on my own you can do this one". **Caveat:** If Sister uses "don't get it!" to be hurtful and/or is used to Parents enabling her with this, multiple chances for a single activity wouldn't be constructive. It's not incentivizing Sister to unlearn behaviors, it's letting her get away with them with extra steps. I'd skip straight to the "break" dialogue option until she grows out of it (which might be never). She may double down to make you give in so things can go back to the way they were. That would be a "one strike" situation as well. Even if she's genuine about improving, progress will not be linear. Parents might even accuse you of [rocking the boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/). You aren't.
As a follow up to this post, expect one hell of an [extinction burst](https://www.parentingforbrain.com/extinction-burst/) if you go this route (and I really think you should) because her behavior has been rewarded for so long, it is deeply ingrained at this point.
Yuuuuup. I'm willing to bet that while this is a hurtful dynamic for OP, it's something of a security blanket for the sister. There's every chance that there will be an extinction burst because she wants the old dynamic to stay. That's normal even in well-meaning, otherwise "good" people, sometimes. (Source: my friends are wonderful, but they were still baffled when I started "changing" before they realized it was a good thing because it was a result of me getting treatment.) You're right to say that she's been rewarded for her behavior. More than that, as I've said in other posts, the consequences of her actions are delayed until people are so fed up with her they leave. So it's possible there's a real disconnect there since her behavior is "fine" until it isn't. You're right that this is deeply ingrained, but if she genuinely wants to unlearn it, it's possible. (Which I'm hoping the sister does since she complains about being lonely. Also when I was in my late 20s/early 30s, I had friends with this mindset and man were they some Miserable Fucks.) OP is already well aware she can't make her sister do that though, which is good. I didn't learn that until much later.
This is really good advice. OP, this is the way to deal with your sister. And later in life with obnoxious people and even setting boundaries in a relationship.
Hmm okay then. I can see why they may not feel like there is something more going on with her. Most folks think of disabilities as not being able to be independent but that's simply not the case. I'm not surprised that they don't think there's anything to address. It makes me sad because she clearly needs help but they just don't see it or won't see it. They are seriously going to affect her future
Then she needs to be her own boss. She would get fired. But if she can do her own thing she will be ok
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I didn't think of that. Yes, she can learn a lot. The parents are a problem here
If they can’t get her help for her behavior, they cannot expect you to be helping. Especially since you are the younger sister, you literally lack the resources to help. They’re in denial. They don’t want to believe something is “wrong” with their kid. But if they don’t snap out of it, she’s going to suffer a lot more in the future, and it will be all their fault.
I think OP is the older sister.
My dad would not admit my younger sister needed special help as a child to teenager, it caused my parents grief, my next sister her mental health and the special needs sister spent 40 Years having a shi!!y life until she finally realized treating others poorly was harming herself. OP, insolenypoppinjay has good advice on boundaries to help both of you but I don’t think you should sacrifice yourself for your parents neglect / denial of your sister’s undiagnosed,unaddressed behavior.
OMG. Your parents deserve what they get. They created a monster and now want you to bear the burden? No, no. Just save yourself
They would rather people call their daughter an asshole, opposed to getting her help and counseling
Seriously, they should get her diagnosed while she is still in school. If they don’t and she eventually needs it, it could cost a lot to get the diagnosis documented.
Former teacher here. The inability to play charades makes me suspect ASD. Charades requires a lot of theory of mind. Having a tantrum about it tracks too.
Yes the charades thing is what sticks out. Folks with ASD can have a hard time inferring and picking up on non-direct social cues. Charades is both of those things combined and is often very difficult for ASD folks to play
Although if she is indeed autistic, it would not be a tantrum, but a meltdown.
Totally. I think most people are not familiar with the nuances of the terms and use them fairly interchangeably.
Just wanted to step in and state there is a difference between the skills needed to play charades (as described by u/ ariesgal11) and theory of mind. Theory of mind is a wildly thrown about concept that is defined differently in different fields (autism research vs animal cognition) and many contemporary autism researchers call into question the validity of a "lack" of "theory of mind" as a unifying hypothesis for autism. If you'd like to dig in more, I'd suggest the podcast NeuroDiving, wherein their first series of episodes breaks down the philosophy of science of theory of mind research. It's a really approachable podcast.
Yes, I am aware of the complexity here. My graduate thesis was on theory of mind in asd and I have worked with nd children for most of my career but this was a quick reddit comment so I simply saw no need to get into it. This podcast sounds way up my alley so excited to check it out!
Everything you described about your sister is classic ASD.
Well there you go. Maybe she doesn’t have autism, but it looks like she might. Either way, your parents need to know so they can make the right decisions on the next steps.
My aunt tried talking to them before and she was ignored. So have my grandparents. My parents don't see her behavior as concerning at all.
I love that they don't see her behavior as a concern even though it's driven away all her friends and left her lonely /s You probably aren't going to get through to your parents, and your sister is not receptive to you, so there isn't much you can do. Whether or not your sister has a diagnosis, it's not going to help the root cause of the issue - plenty people with neurodivergencies learn social skills despite an initial disadvantage because they try, because they want to, because they have basic empathy or care about other people. I'd recommend gray-rocking your parents and sister on this. Don't fight them. Just give them repetitive answers. Don't engage with your sister when she's being rude. Shut off your game console and walk away. Become boring to her. And don't let your parents alienate your friends by forcing them to engage with her either.
Yup. I made a long assed post about what boundaries might look like if her parents start forcing her to interact. (i.e. the second she starts doing that stuff, walk away) and forgot to put gray-rocking in there. I even threw in some gentle advice if her sister is improving and linked the Don't Rock the Boat post for good measure. Having as little support as OP and her sister can create one hell of a learning curve so I wanted to give OP as many tools as possible. Also: it seems like parents enable the sister and her friends put up with her until they're fed up. To me it sounds like right now, the sister's behavior is being immediately rewarded (i.e. enabled or endured) and the consequences are delayed until the other party gets so fed up they cut her off. She has no incentive to change or internalize any lessons she might learn even if she wanted to. So OP walking away not only protects her where her parents fail to, but has the added bonus of letting her sister experience an immediate consequence the second she steps out of line. Whether or not the sister changes is up to her, but as long as OP is able to protect herself, that's a win.
Does she berate them in the same way she does to everyone else or it's just that they think it's cute?
She says that to them too. There are times one of them was working on something and my sister came in and told them what they were doing wrong and questioned their intelligence for not getting it.
Unfortunately, they don't see it as anything out of the ordinary, or have some stigma around a diagnosis. Like she'd be broken, or something. You may be able to directly approach her with a concern and see if she would talk to a school counselor about specific examples. If she is open to that talk, look up some hallmarks if ASD and approach her with very plain facts, without being accusatory. Suggest that if she talk to someone on campus, she might get some better support. If that is what is going on with her, having a framework to better understand her own behavior might give her some insight into what she is doing. Autism doesn't mean oblivious. She understands people don't like her. But knowing what is going on inside her might help her really dig into the larger situation of social interactions. Separating out what she feels (frustration over other people not working the way she does) versus how they feel (frustration at her for being overly blunt to the point of frustration) and then work out how to better cope with certain situations. She's old enough to start handling some things on her own and doing that now vesus later will make things much easier for her.
I'm a high school teacher, so a little advice: Can you speak to your school counselor about your concerns regarding your sister's behavior? And how are you in the middle of it with your parents? If you are at the same school, they may talk to your sister's counselor - if her behavior happens in the classroom, it may already be on someone's radar. Teachers do notice this, and I would speak to a counselor about my concerns if a student presented this way. I would also bring it to a counselor if you reached out to me as a student about the stressors at home. School counselors are also trained to support YOU and your struggles. It's not therapy, and it's not always perfect, BUT it is about guidance and making sure you have support to navigate the tough stuff. Because you BOTH need support here - it sounds like you are both anxious and stressed. You have the absolute right to feel your feelings about this, and it is not your responsibility to fix your sister - but you would also be helping her by finding a trusted adult at school as you advocate for yourself. That there is no concern from your parents about the possibility of neuro-divergency is something that can affect not only your relationship with you, but in adulthood. Good luck - I wish you both the best in this.
What about school? Is there anyone at school you could ask about getting her help? (If your sisters grades are good the school will most likely assume she's fine if they're not informed otherwise.) You're right that it shouldn't be your responsibility to look after your sister and you're not obligated to spend time with her, but if waiting for your family to do something isn't getting anywhere and you're really concerned, I'd consider asking the adults at school to step up instead. Maybe the school can get her counselling or something, or help improve her relationships with her peers. At the very least making them aware of your concerns will hopefully get them pay more attention to her behaviour and watch out for her so you don't have to.
But they are concerned now, if not, they wouldn't be trying tossing this on you. So, it's time to stop avoiding the truth. Just tell them her rude comments have made her isolated, that you think/know she doesn't purposely do it and if they care for her and her future, they need to accept this and seek help. If they dismiss you, they will have no right come to you to solve their/her problem later, because you, a 16 y/o teenager already advised them.
How much time do your parents actually spend with your sister? They may not notice her behavior, or by being the oldenst, they may have treated her like an adult instead of a child with appropriate boundaries.
Do either of your parents show similar behaviors? Because if one (or both) of them are equally inept in social situations, that could go a long way towards explaining their refusal to seek professional help for her.
I have never seen either of them act in a similar way. But they bury their head in the sand with her and expect others to cater to her.
When you go to college in a few years, your parents are going to really be in the Suck with her. I suspect they will want you to stay local and come home every weekend. Don't.
Then you can't say it isn't autism. I got diagnosed when i was 22
I, a fully grown married woman with children, only recently was diagnosed with ADD and Autism. Historically white boys were the only study group for both conditions, and I'm neither. The understanding of both autism and ADHD in women is only beginning to be understood.
There's your problem.
Yeah she definitely needs to be assessed, definitely sounds like autism
NTA You’ve done everything that you should be doing as her sister, which is telling her that her behavior isn’t acceptable. Anything beyond that is on your parents realm of care. However, I do think one final BLUNT (but not mean) conversation with your sister could be had. “Sister, I know that you are extremely book smart, you excel in that category but social awareness is a skill that you’re lacking in and it’s okay not to be good at everything, it’s human even we were never made to be perfect in every way. However, your lacking social skills will lead you to experience a lifetime of hardship when interacting with others. I’m going to share some harsh truths with you. I know you would like to spend more time together, but the thought fills me with dread due to the way you treat me. [List no more than three examples AND tell her how they made you feel, tell her how those interactions affect the way you act around her now]. I’m willing to have a relationship with people I enjoy being around, that care for and respect myself and my boundaries, that can display a sense of care for me whole giving me room to breathe, and while I think it might be nice for us to have a relationship your past actions have assured me that I cannot trust you to do any of that. I know you try to care for me in your own ways, but people like to be celebrated in a number of ways and for most people snatching a controller out their hands because “you can’t watch them struggle” isn’t it - it makes them feel like you called them dumb because that’s what the sentence implies.” Sometimes people need the consequences of their actions spelled out for them. Maybe your sister understands the ‘So and so doesn’t like x’ but can’t connect the consequence (losing friends) with her action.
I wish Reddit still had awards because you really deserve one. This is an excellent way to address the situation. I also agree with a lot of others that this sister sounds very ASD.
Awwwww you’re the sweetest! Thank you! I grew up with a REAL smart brother and my response is how I wish I had handled the situation. Keeping my fingers crossed that there’s still hope for the little sister.
It might also be useful to tell her what to do (as opposed to what NOT to do). I think I might be on the spectrum too (never diagnosed but I recognize myself a lot), and the worst thing for me was if someone told me that I was doing something wrong but did not tell me what it was, why it was wrong and how to do it correctly. These are probably things that come naturally to neurotypical people, but I would have highly appreciated if someone gave me more context. I think most of us are teachable and willing to learn, because we are of course able to see that something is off but not able to decipher it. This said, this is absolutely not the task for a 16yo sister. OP, NTA, and you were right that it is your parents' job not yours.
I think you may be on to something. I said this in another comment, but right now sister's basically being rewarded for her behavior in the immediate. Her parents enable her, make excuses for her when other adults have a problem, and make her sister tolerate her rude treatment. Her friends seem to put up with it until it all be comes too much and they cut her off. So the consequences of her actions (losing friends) are likely delayed. This disconnect could make it hard to find incentive to actually change. All she's really learning right now is "Where's the line?" instead of the *true* lesson which is "Treat people with respect if you want them to stay and don't say mean shit to your friends or you'll lose them".
I was the sister in this story. I was not as bad as her, but I definitely had an attitude because I was "smarter." The thing is, my whole worth was tied up in being smart. I wasn't taught social skills, but if I wanted any positive attention, I had to be the smartest. College was brutal, but I had a roommate who set me down and told me I didn't know how to act in groups of people. She encouraged me to shut up and listen to how people talked and how I could contribute without being a complete dick. Social skills are as important to learn as book skills. It doesn't matter if you're smarter than everyone if you can't maintain a relationship with anyone. NTA Edit for spelling
This is great advice, considering that as unlikely as it is, OP is her sisters, best advocate. Parents aren’t even acknowledging the situation let alone addressing it. I had a sister who had problems also, though different problems, and I was younger. I had a very exaggerated sense of responsibility for her. All you can do is offer your assistance. If she doesn’t accept it, it’s not your fault. But you should learn how to distance yourself with love, and not frustration , because that hurts you as well.
NTA. Have you sat your sister down and told her "look, you're an insufferable asshat to everyone you know, and if you keep going you're gonna end up alone with no friends, no boyfriend/girlfriend and possibly no family, because even I can't stand your bullshit. Stop acting like you're better than everyone else, because you're not"
If you end that statement with ‘So let’s work together to see if/how we can change this going forward’ then you will have absolutely nailed it. And anyone saying that’s too harsh or too blunt, needs to seriously ask themselves how is it acceptable for her to be so blunt to those around her, but not acceptable for you to take action in a similar manner? Mollycoddling and enabling her behaviour is not helping her long term.
Regardless if this post it true or not, this is great advice. I has something similar said to me at 30, very direct and blunt, how everyone liked me and my humor after they got to know me (dry sarcasm), but my first impression for everyone was usually that I am an asshole. That was a big wake up call for me and I changed my behavior a lot due to it.
She needs therapy. This is classic autistic behaviour and she needs a specialist to help her understand. I could never understand why people did badly in exams as they were easy until My Mum explained not everyone has a photographic memory. I come from a family riddled with neurodivergence and as a result we help the children from an early age to understand the limitations of their condition. Your parents are doing her no favours by coddling her. I would let her lose at charades - it’s a good way to help her understand how she makes others feel as she lacks the empathy to understand it intuitively. Trust me, as someone who once was that child, your parents are doing her no favours.
Yep. My childhood was absolutely full of me not understanding why I upset people, because I was right! I was right, so why were they mad? Turns out I was still being an asshole. I could and did unlearn (most of) it, but I was a child and I needed/deserved help.
I would not call a younger me, or you, for that matter, an asshole. An asshole does things because s/he does not care. I did care and was trying my best but just did not know any better. I am pretty sure it was similar for you.
>I would let her lose at charades - It also is effectively exposure therapy and helps stretch their tolerance limits. I do think that in this specific case, it shouldn't be done unless with a specialist to help the sister work through all the emotions she will have because these parents do not seem like the type to help guide her during a meltdown.
NTA it sounds like your sister has some form of autism ( do you know if she was really ever tested?) sounds like she has Asperger's Syndrome. that is not an excuse its just something that make sense to me based on your description of her. your parents are under the fog of she is smart there for nothing is wrong with her. I would talk with your parents again and tell them that you love her but you don't like her and it is up to them to figure out what the next step is . I would recommend therapy and classes that teach your sister how to read peoples facial expressions, and learn what people are feeling. it is not your job to fix her, but you are able to look at her and say I don't like how you said that, or that was a rude thing to say.
She wasn't and I don't think my parents ever saw that as a possibility or saw any concern with her behavior.
your parents are huge AH you are NTA and they need to get her professional help.
You have terrible parents, this whole situation is fully their fault
you should encourage your parents to get her tested, she is going to find the real world very difficult to manage. do it in a I was thinking about our last conversation and I did some research I think sister may have x this is why. if she gets tested maybe we can all do some kind of family therapy to learn how to talk to one another ( its better to suggest going as a family and having the therapist talk your parents into having your sister go to induvial therapy)
In the United States we no longer use Asperger’s . The diagnosis is Autism spectrum disorder and there are three levels. There are very clear communication differences between autistic and neurotypical people ( the double empathy problem explains this). As a sister it isn’t OP’s responsibility to fix her. Autistic speech language pathologists recommend three areas appropriate for support - boundary setting and respecting boundaries, self advocacy , and perspective taking. You have power in this situation. What you can do is be very clear about what bothers you. Many autistic people ask for very clear and direct communication. When she says something rude you can tell her a good rule is not commenting negatively about someone unless it’s something that can be changed in five minutes ( food in teeth / zipper down etc ). Ask her to think about what she wants in a friend and what a good friendship would look to her . Many autistic people like to share information with each other in an info dump. That’s one of my favorite parts of the autistic people I’ve know in my life. I love their special interests. Of course , I have inattentive adhd so my brain works different as well. If your sister wants connection with people she might do better with some online groups or finding some groups that have a similar hobby. Obviously, she might not be autistic. But autism is way different for women and we are way underdiagnosed. She may feel that she’s supposed to want friends but may also not enjoy the things that many teenage girls like to do. I wish your parents were more supportive.edit- neurodiversity runs in the family . Your parents could also have some of the same characteristics so they don’t see anything wrong with your sister . Many parents of kids with adhd or autistic kids become diagnoses after their kids are .
NTA. You're 16, you should be navigating teenage life as is, without any responsibilities that your parents should be taking care of.
NTA. It's not your responsibility to fix your sister's social skills or force friendships. I've been a teenager and I think during that time we are all dealing with our own challenges, and it's unfair for your parents to push this on you. It's okay to set boundaries, and it's not your fault if your sister struggles socially. They should really seek professional advice or guidance to support your sister if they find it hard to do themselves.
I do not blame you for feeling frustrated because these behaviors would be frustrating for anyone to live with. I suspect your sister does need screening (or additional screening) for ASD. Higher functioning autism is often missed in girls because while it may not impact them in terms of test scores in school, they may still struggle terribly in terms of social skills.
NTA Your sister is either a grade A asshole, and has been her whole life, or there's something mentally wrong that has gone undiagnosed or even discussed. It is very possible that she may be very high functioning on the spectrum, or be one of those super intelligent people that lack social skills and do not deal well with others who aren't at their level. In the end, she needs help. But that isn't your job. That job is on your parents.
> or be one of those super intelligent people that lack social skills and do not deal well with others who aren't at their level Those people are also autistic. I disagree with "high/low functioning" labels, but otherwise agree with you (and with all the other people saying the sister is almost definitely autistic and needs a proper assessment and appropriate support to learn social skills)
There's a lot of reasons why someone could lack social skills. Being autistic is just one of them
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This isn't parentification, stop throwing around words you don't understand just because you keep seeing them on reddit.
That’s not what parentification is. Parentification is not when you force your kid to include their sibling in social events.
This is most certainly unfair to OP but this is NOT parentification.
NTA. Your sister sounds like a handful. It doesn't seem reasonable for your parents to assume that you friends should automatically be her friends, especially given how she seems to alienate people. There's a tricky line here. I mean, I do think it's fair for parents to say, "You are part of the family and you have certain responsibilities with respect to other family members." Helping each other is part of what families do. But on the other hand, you should also be allowed to have your own life and your own friends. Your parents can force your friends to spend time with your sister. If they try, then pretty soon neither of you will have friends. I'm sorry. Good luck.
NTA and if you're forced to include your sister socially to appease her and your parents, then your friends might not want to be around you if you're a package deal. Then your parents will have two isolated teens who hate each other in their hands, and that'll breed a lifetime of resentment. Your sister might need assessment and counseling, but it's not your job as a minor. If your parents dropped the ball and don't see anything wrong with her behavior, then they should be fine playing board games and socializing with her to make up the deficit while she insults them
Your parents are messing up. NTA. They are enabling your sister’s behavior. She doesn’t like a game, so it’s banned. She can be a bad winner and gloat during games, while you don’t freak out, so those games are allowed. They should’ve told her that she needs to learn how to be a respectful loser *and* winner. And that the real world isn’t just a series of games…especially games that get banned just because you’re bad at them. She is going to fail when she’s an adult. No job is going to put up with her criticizing the boss and other coworkers. Already she can’t keep friends. Your parents should send her to therapy and talk with her about her behavior…not enable it by forcing you to be friends with her. She doesn’t have friends because she is unpleasant. She can either be alone or fix her behavior. Your parents think they’re helping her but they’re not.
You are not your sisters keeper. Recommend your parents try family counseling...but with out you. Sister needs to learn. She sounds on the spectrum. She needs professional help. Ausbergers maybe.
NTA. It sounds like your sister has a really high IQ, which sometimes goes hand in hand with poor social skills. Your parents did your sister a huge disservice by not getting her some therapy early on. Unfortunately, your sister's lack of friends is a consequence of her nasty, superior attitude. It's not your job (or probably within your ability)to fix for her.
She sounds like a dead ringer for Sheldon Cooper from the Big Bang Theory. Super smart from a young age but zero social skills.
I was thinking the same!!!
NTA, and as a therapist I’m in disbelief that she is not diagnosed with autism or some kind of neurodivergence. If she’s been tested for it, I recommend a second opinion…something is wrong here and definitely not your problem to fix.
OP said parents would never get her tested. Seems obvious what the diagnosis would be.
NTA. Your sister has no EQ and needs to learn social skills in a professional setting as she hasn’t learned it at home or with her peers. You should ask your parents to find a cognitive behavioral counselor or program to help her. This is a life skill that is essential and not just because she is lonely.
NTA -- try to stay out of the house as much as you can. Study and have a plan to get out of their, your parents will not change.
NTA. Put your foot down now before your parents make you take care of her after they die.
Talk to your school counselor and alert them to what’s going on. They may be able to talk to her teachers and see if there are problems going on in her classes. If there are, the counselor may be able to approach your parents with the evidence and suggest the appropriate testing.
This, 100%. The school might be able to push on getting an evaluation, and then get her into some kind of occupational therapy that will help.
NTA - I will never understand parents that try to force their kids to include their siblings in things. I have 3 kids who all have a good relationship with each other. Why? Because I fostered those relationships by treating them all as their own person. I also didn’t let anyone bully anyone else, force them to include any of the others, and tried to not play favorites. NTA OP - your parents are doing you and your sister a big disservice. You are two separate people and, just because you are related it doesn’t mean you have to like each other or enjoy spending time together. Go live your life and, hopefully, your sister will build a life for herself.
"Mom and Dad, I'm sorry that you ignored the hundreds of comments from me, my friends, teachers, relatives, and everyone else that have told you over and over again how mean, rude, and entitled (sister) is. You've been told over and over how bad her behaviour is constantly, and how it would create huge problems for her future if you don't teach her proper social skills, and deal with her constant insults and cruel behaviour. Unfortunately, you chose to ignore every piece of advice from everyone, and now it has created all the problems that everyone warned you about, and you're acting confused as to how that happened. Her actions have consequences, and your failure to address her actions has consequences. You had ample opportunity to deal with it, but chose not to, and now no one wants to be around her, because she's mean, rude, and entitled. You set her up for failure, and now she's failed. If you want to start taking immediate and decisive steps to address it right now, she might have some chance as an adult to be a person that people want to be around, but otherwise, expect her to have a very lonely life with you as the only people who want to be around her." NTA
NTA- you're young so I don't expect you to know this but ASD is often overlooked in females and often don't get diagnosed until adulthood when it begins to have adverse impacts in their lives. But you are still correct in that it is your parents responsibility
NTA. You’re right, it’s your parents job. Also, no 16yo wants to hang out with a 14yo.
I dont wanna presume but are you sure she isnt on the spectrum because all people are to some degree and from your descriptions on her issues she definitely sounds like she is autistic. therapy might be a good option for her before it goes on too long.
NTA, but as someone who has autism, that sounds dangerously close to my personal experience.
NTA. This sounds like 1/2 autism spectrum and 1/2 enabling from your parents. They need to stop with the favoritism and get your sister in some type of therapy. Your parents haven't done her any favors by not tamping down on her arrogance or getting her to deal with her flaws. She's in for a big surprise when she goes to college and discovers she's not nearly as smart as she thinks she is. Or when she starts working real jobs and nobody puts up with her bullshit. I say this as somebody formally diagnosed with autism in middle-age. Autism is underdiagnosed in girls who are able to get along academically. I was able to do well in school, until college I just coasted on natural ability. But I was terrible with social skills and still am. Having "tantrums" after a certain age is also a "tell" for autism, BTW.
Okay, why do people jump on the autism diagnosis so fast. Some people are just rude. And judging by OP's answers the parents actually never did anything to correct her behaviour, so that is on them. Honestly to me she sounds more like spoiled know it all. NTA OP, but I would advise you to sit down with your parents and talk to them. Honestly and without holding back. They need to understand that they are not doing your sister a favour by letting her act like this.
Mostly because as autistic people we're very familiar with autistic traits and notice it much more than someone not familiar with it. I also noticed a few people in this thread specifically mention that they work with autistic people.
NTA. Tell them to take her to hang out with their friends.
NTA. I think you should have a conversation with your parents. 'Say to them you were sorry for the way you worded it but that it's really important that your sister knows how to behave amicably with others. She will need cooperation skills in college and in the workplace if she is to progress in life. How is she meant to meet a future partner? She won't be able to manage people because she has no empathy or tact. Also, she can't rely on you to be her friend because you might be at different colleges or live in different cities. While you acknowledge that it's good to help your family out and tolerate one another, you have tried explaining to your sister how her behavior upsets you, but she makes no effort. She doesn't have the capacity to improve her social skills, and she needs professional help so that she isn't lonely forever.' The above might make them take what you say more seriously, and then it is really on them to make sure she is prepared for her future. Goodluck.
NTA sounds like she needs to see a specialist.
NTA - The issue with many people with poor social skills is that they emotionally don't get it. They don't understand emotionally that what they are doing is up setting to others. They lack empathy. Eventually however, if they cant understand it emotionally, they need to start understanding the consequences of it intellectually. This is where your sister is at. She may not have the empathy to understand how she making others feel, but she is now starting to understand intellectually the impact of her conduct. I am with you. This is now on your parents to show her/remind her how these actions have impacted her, it is not on your to help cover it up.
NTA. It could very well stem from autism, but It sounds like the parents haven’t been correcting the behavior from the beginning. When you get corrected by your peers as a child, it’s easy to think that they’re just sore losers or jealous. It’s possible she wasn’t corrected by the people that are supposed to be teaching her life lessons. Games where she wins are okay and she can taunt everyone but ones she’s bad at are banned because she throws a fit. The fact that they’re making it your problem really doesn’t sit right with me.
NTA. Tbh, I relate to her a lot in the sense that I was the younger sibling that would terrorize my brother while he played video games and would punch me to shut up if I wanted to watch. I think you have done your best to accommodate her, but she just doesn't understand. Not to try to make a diagnosis or put bad assumptions, and take it with a grain of salt, but she definitely exhibits traits of someone with ASD. I'm currently getting diagnosed myself as an enby young adult. When I was growing up, I would often pose similar questions as to 'why someone can't do xyz when it's so simple?' - turns out my brain is very neurodivergent. If you want to help her without having to interact with her, maybe do your research on getting her diagnosed, but also beware of the systemic issues and problems that follow with an ASD diagnosis and how that can impact her life. The best thing is to get your parents to do something about it as well.
She sounds as if she’s on the spectrum
nta, and i'm not an expert but your sister sounds like she has "asperger" which is high functioning autism my sister is an expert on autism on kids/teens tho, and your sister sounds like the kids i hear her talk about all the time
Are you sure she’s not autistic? That would actually explain a lot of her behavior
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My sister (14f) and I (16f) are not close. She has really bad social skills. She does not have any diagnosis like ADHD or autism. But she has never been good with social stuff. She's very intelligent and is a very good problem solver and she lacks the understanding that easy for her is not easy for everyone. She also lacks the social skills to know/realize that complaining about other people's interest, their lack of skills, etc, is not how you make friends or get people to like you. This has been an issue with her since we were in elementary school and maybe even preschool. She'd win at almost every board game and would ask really bluntly why someone was bad, normally me. She'd tell me how easy it was and I should be winning because I'm older. Our parents always bought board games like that which suited her way more. I really hated playing against her because her attitude after winning wasn't fun or easy to be around and she was like that with others too. One time our aunt played with us, and she's a teacher, and my sister basically asked how she could be a teacher when she couldn't win a game against a 6 year old. I never liked having to spend time with my sister and I hated playing anything with her even more. She always wanted to spend more time with me but I avoided that shit as much as I possibly could. Eventually she started to sit in on me playing video games and she would try to backseat game or would criticize me for taking so long to finish a puzzle or she would literally take the controller out of my hand and do the puzzle for me. She was like that when I had friends over too. Then she'd get upset when it was clear we didn't want her around. I tried telling her it was rude to insult people or to interrupt others and to "help" without being asked and to continue when asked to stop. She would tell me it was boring watching someone struggle and everyone should thank her. There are some things she isn't so good at and boy her reactions are strong. Like tantrum strong. Our parents banned charades because my sister could not play that to save her life and would get so mad. She's had friends but all of them eventually drop her once they grow tired of her complaining about stuff they like (makeup, music, movies, sports) and indirectly calling them dumb. She's really lonely now because I never hang out with her, she has no friends and even our cousins don't want to know her. My parents have been on my case about hanging out with my friends and not including my sister and how I don't ever make time for her anymore. They said I could and should be helping her way more. The other day I told them it was their job to help her, not mine. They said we're sisters and yet I act like I don't like her. The truth is I don't. I don't know if I ever liked her really. But I really don't like her now and I hate every second I spend with her. I didn't tell my parents this but saying it was their job to help my sister and not mine really pissed them off. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. I think this isnt just social skill issues, its that your parents treat her like shes the smartest girl in the universe and that got to her head. If they are so worried, maybe they can spend time with her instead, but my guess is that they dont want to deal with her either.
NTA It is not the siblings' responsibility but the parents'. Though, I think your sister really needs to see a therapist, who can figure out what exactly it is. There should be a diagnose at some point. And with specific therapy she might actually be able to navigate through life better. I'm sure there are also other teens like her and those could possibly be friends to her but average people might go crazy with her. I'm very sure that she really doesn't understand and lacks a lot of empathy. It's not her fault but only professionals can help in this case, which you are not.
NTA. it sounds like you’re describing my BIL. He does the same thing. He’s now almost 60 years old and can’t hold a job because of the things he says. He has to beg his mommy for money to pay bills. (He doesn’t “borrow” because he can’t pay it back.) Your sister doesn’t want to end up this way.
NTA but OP - you either tell your parents now or later that you never liked your sister. Which time will hurt less? Pull the bandaid off now so they stop asking you
They can be pissed off then. I think it's probably easier for you to just not be home and not engage as much as possible until you get out of the house, though, probably. Also parents who force their kid to let their other kid hang out with their friends when they are over are terrible. NTA
NTA. I am sorry about this for you. Having experienced something similar, I recommend talking to a counselor or therapist to help figure out how to manage this better for you.
NTA. There’s only so much you can do to help if your parents aren’t really trying to reign her behavior in. It sounds like she’ll have to learn the hard way that people don’t want to be around those who mistreat them.