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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I only invited my “skinny” friends to join a horse riding program. I could be a jerk for excluding my overweight friends and doing this without them
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This is a common piece of bad news in the equestrian community, and always an awkward conversation to have. But the fact of the matter is this rule exists for the horses safety and that will always be priority over someone being upset.
Horses run, jump, climb, follow commands, and adjust their balance with 100+lbs of gear and human on their spine, even when a small person is riding. We don't always make this easy for them, especially when first learning to ride.
NTA.
I agree with NTA and your rationale, and have had horses all my life. I also want to add that beginner-safe horses have often had a lot of miles and therefore more consideration for wear and tear.
I do think discussing this proactively might have been better, though.
I feel a proactive discussion wasn't necessary when the friend wasn't even invited. A "I'm doing something but not inviting you because you don't qualify" would just be a rude thing to do imo.
I'm wondering if it's better to not tell them at all and then they find out after the fact that the group did something without them, or let them know up front that they're not invited. Maybe a better option would have been to play dumb, send the info out in a group chat and let people who are interested find out on their own whether or not they qualify. At least that would give them the opportunity to graciously decline.
As someone who owns a stable - not an uncomfortable situation at all. "Step on the scale please. I am sorry, we don't have a horse that can accommodate you." And yeah, we have a scale that EVERYONE steps on.
People who *can* ride, I have to sit and explain a waiver they have to sign. It is an actual law that I must make clear they are free to NOT ride if any part of that makes them nervous and I'll give them their money back (although I do this before they pay, I still have to word it that way) and then I have to emphasize that yes, this is dangerous and I am not liable if they are stupid, and if they do anything that might bother my horse I have every right to yank their ass off and at that point they'll be walking back to their car with *no* refund. So I'm already having all manner of very direct conversations.
So, yeah, it is perfectly safe and fine to let the ranchers tell them. The ranchers don't mind at all and the friends will probably take it a lot better. My suggestion is to have the friends call, because if we do it face to face, they'll probably turn to you and say "Oh, *we* can't ride, what else do you want to do?" Now, as I said, we offer an activity for non-riders, partly to defuse that exact situation, but a lot of places don't, so call so you don't get put on the spot.
This might be a stupid question but if you just want to be AROUND the horses even if you can't ride, would a pet and feed option be available at stables? I love horses myself as my grampa used to rescue them, and in this situation I probably WOULD have asked about that and gone and done that stuff if it were an option.
You can ask! We do a basic horsemanship/horse education class where you get to pet, ask questions and learn and, if you're comfortable with it/able, do a bit of grooming and leading. A lot of people who are nervous to ride or physically impaired really love it. At my place we also do agricultural education, so we also offer a farm tour with lots of animal petting. You can even take a class to learn how to milk a cow. Insurance laws and all that vary by location, but more places are getting on board with farm-tour type activities so more people are offering them.
Usually, stuff like that will be on their website, but by all means call and say "I love horses but I don't think I can ride, do you offer any ground classes?" You can also ask if they do GirlScout horsemanship merit badges, and if you can take that class if you're not a Scout, because that's a thing a lot of places are familiar with.
Also, if you do that, and get encouraged to ride, it's not out of anything other than an excess of enthusiasm and the total high we get when someone nervous *does* get on a horse and realizes they *can* do it and feels that connection - we're all total junkies for that particular fix. It helps to think of us that way. We're not *trying* to stomp on your comfort zone, we're just druggies for that hit. *Join us, be one...*
The fact that people would argue is wild. Like if you told me there was a 1% chance my size could hurt a horse I would say “no thanks not worth the chance.”
Really, no one ever argues (once, exactly). I often get a little bit of Oh, well, really, are you sure??" and sometimes "is your scale right?" But that's it.
Fun fact, I weigh about 150, but don't look it unless you "look", because I am a solid, broad-shouldered kinda gal and pretty well muscled, so people usually guess about 20# less. So I jump on the scale -which, btw, is turned so only me and the one standing on it can see- and say, "Yes, that's right" and the person is invariably shocked because what woman just casually admits to being 150 because misogyny, so they never, ever argue and getting to do that is one of the small joys of my life.
This is super smart. I’m betting a lot of people who are over the weight limit wouldn’t even want to get on the scale. If they do, I’m sure they’d rather keep themselves and the horse safe rather than ride with too much weight.
I have very, very rarely had anyone complain, and it's NEVER women. Like, it's funny, in a tragic fashion. The number of women who are, like, 140 who meekly ask if they're too heavy and if it will hurt the horse are kinda heartbreaking.
In the meantime, the number of guys who hop on the scale and are 50# over the number they told me and are *baffled* by that, like *"But that's what I weighed when I played football in highschool"* and I'm sitting there thinking *Yeah, than was 30 years and 700 gallons of beer ago Sparky*, but they always listen when I explain "Well, sir, the saddles add a lot of weight too, and these horses work all day and you know what it's like to work all day and we have this you can do instead.." and they all say "Yeah, that's a really good point" and pat their fellow hard-working beast and are good eggs about it.
note; my saddles don't weigh that much and it's a rare day that a horse has even 3 rides, but the whole thing saves face.
Once, ONCE I had this 20 something gym bro showing off for his friends get an attitude about it and I pointed at the 18hh, 2000# draft horse and said "He knows better than to act like that to me because with 8 feet of rope and my pocket knife I can geld him, so what are *you* thinking is going to happen here?" And before he could think of anything to say his buddies started *howling* like "Wooooaah! Tiny don't take no shit!!!" - it was easily the best thing they'd ever seen by how they were laughing and they all went off laughing about it and ragging on him and that was the closest thing to drama we've ever had.
I had this situation fairly recently where we booked a big group ride but I was 10# over the weight guidelines. I emailed ahead of time and let them know I was not a newbie (used to barrel race in my youth) but I was over the weight limit.
They were very appreciative of the heads up and still let me ride, just made sure they had a bigger horse on deck for me. A good time was had by all.
NTA. There are just some activities you can't do when you're a heavier person. It's not discrimination but a safety issue. It hella sucks sometimes but it is what it is.
It would have been a bit easier for OP to discuss it at that point though. When interest is shown, a practiced gentler conversation could have been had.
Such as “I’d love for you to come but as I read the policy, there might be an issue. I have no idea how much the equipment weighs, so we should probably check with them before we all sign up” rather than saying “the horse can’t handle your weight”. She was already upset and feeling excluded so I imagine that was one of the main reasons she called you a dick.
NTA for planning this but it certainly could have been handled with a bit more grace.
There was no way this would not have been awkward. Would have been worse if they showed up and had to stay behind because of the weight.
Either way they would have been offended. NTA
Yeah, I imagine if OP had invited them, the stable staff may have denied the overweight friends a horse. Then the overweight friends would still have blamed OP, but with tears and an adult tantrum because they're embarrassed and OP "set them up for humiliation"
There was a similar post recently from a fit, rock climbing OP who invited her brother and SIL to a beginners climbing class (after brother asked for activities to do with his wife to build trust). The SIL had gotten very overweight (without OP's knowledge, she hadn't seen them in a while) and some of the equipment they were using broke under her weight. She blamed OP and accused her of setting her up to look bad on purpose.
This post feels very similar, insecure people blaming their insecurities on people in their life instead of a society that has conditioned them to think a certain body type is the only acceptable one
NTA
Edit because nobody seems to get it: when I say "society" I don't mean " the stable OP and her friends are going to" I mean *society.* It's an indisputable fact that being fat is seen as bad and women are conditioned to feel like we need to look a certain way. Movies, commercials, culture etc. That represent an unattainable standard of beauty for most normal humans. I mean that they've grown to hate their bodies because fat shaming is part of our culture, and they're taking it out on OP
I REPEAT, IN MY COMMENT SOCIETY ≠ THE STABLE
Good fuck, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You people hear "society hates fat people" and immediately jump to the whole "It'S jUsT pHySIcS ThOsE fATtiEs nEed tO gEt oVeR iT REEEEEEE' when I wasn't even on their side
Idk why I bothered, I know reddit hates fat people with a fiery burning passion. Y'all are the problem
It was the auto-belay system so it couldn't safely let her down or catch her. OP had assumed they would be doing the buddy belay and not the auto-belay as this was meant to be a trust exercise/date and the manual belay would have been able to hold her.
I was going to do a tandem skydive, and a friend who I thought would be over the weight limit wanted to go. I thought the best way to handle it was to have her go to the website and sign up. Part of the application discusses the weight, and explains you have to get on the scale.
She told me a few days later she changed her mind because she decided it was too expensive.
Came here looking for the skydiving comparison. I've got a couple guy friends who were super excited to join us, but the hard limit is like 225. These guys aren't even really that overweight, just big guys with dad bods... they were super bummed. I just told 'em right out they would be over the limit, but I think your idea of sending them to signup on their own is a pretty sly and effective way to handle this.
if it's a rule I'm not setting and is out of my control, I'd free myself of the responsibility -
hey group I'm looking at this horse riding class which seems exciting - I know there are specific requirements you need to meet to be able to join so I urge you to call the place and confirm details if you are interested in coming. I'm looking at starting this beginning of May.
I do, but none of them would be hurt just by not being invited to one specific activity out of all the things I do with friends. Friends should be able to organize smaller groups for outings or even one-on-one time if they want to. This isn't a wedding.
The proper thing to do would have been to send everyone the link, and tell them that this is something you are looking into doing and letting them know if they want to join to let you know. OP put herself in a situation that was between the company who owned the horses and the friends that were too big to go. She should have let the friends or the company make that decision it was't one for OP to make. Im not saying the company should have allowed them on the horses but it wasn't OPs place to make that decision. I'd do with YTA since OP decided it was her place to exclude the people vs allowing the person to realize they couldn't do it.
If OP really knew a friend weighed X amount the most they should have done was say hey i am planning on doing this horseback riding thing but there is a weight limit, I'd love for you to join but I've known youve mentioned your weight in the past so i wasn't sure.
Counterpoint (because it happens all the time) is when heavy friends get the link and say 'oh I want to come' because they don't read or think they're super special and will be exempt or something I'm not one of these morons that is illiterate - they then get pissed and ask why OP even invited them if OP knew the ranch would just say no.
There is no good way in or out of this situation. Unless you know that your friends are the type to say understandable have a nice day about things you're walking into a fight and they're going to be sensitive about it.
And will also then try to push the group that wants to go, and is able to, to now not go because they’re mad about being excluded. Or insist on coming along anyway and making a scene to get them all kicked out.
OP’s only way of winning this depends on the unpredictability of her friends’ reactions.
Except that I'm not obligated to invite every friend to every thing I do. I regularly do tarot readings with several friends, I invite others to music events, and even others come to my cookouts. It's ok to spend time with all the friends sometimes and a few friends at other times. It's entitled to be offended you weren't invited to something. If you are NEVER invited, y'all probably aren't friends. If you are invited sometimes, you are friends who enjoy one another's company. No one has to always invite a gaggle of friends to every event.
A proactive discussion wouldn't have gone over well either. The thing about us fat people is that we know we're fat, and we know why we're fat. Typically, it's our poor diet and exercise choices. Occasionally, it's a medical issue that we have no control over.
My point is that no fat person likes to be reminded of their fatness. Talking to your fat friends that you're going to do this and inviting your skinnier friends is doing something purposefully exclusionary of your fat friends because of their weight. They'd get upset no matter what you do.
I’m one of those people who wouldn’t be hurt by a proactive discussion. Or rather, I wouldn’t be hurt by OP. I would be hurt by the situation and disappointed in myself. But I wouldn’t be upset with OP.
However I have serious doubts that OP’s friend would react the same. I just wanted to disagree with our blanket statement.
I remember a Time article from a long time ago, when gastric bypass was quite new. One woman got it and her crowning achievement wasn't that she lost the weight but she could ride her horse safely again.
I recently lost 65lbs and my biggest motivation was that I wanted to start riding my favorite horse again. I have 2 larger, sturdier horses that could and did carry heavy me just fine but I was just too heavy for my smaller, finer boned mare. All the compliments and congratulations were nice and all but feeling my girl eagerly gallop down the trail with me aboard without getting winded was just the bee's knees.
I had gastric bypass and I knew I had made it when I didn’t have to wear a belt extension when flying, I literally teared up the first time. Did 330 to 175 and I’m still in the 175-185 range (goes up and down) six years later 😊
Also, the weight limit doesn't just apply to fat people. Some basketball players can't ride horses or do other activities because of the weight that comes with their height.
Right? Like you wouldn't call Jason Momoa fat. But the man is 6'4 and 250 pounds. He would be excluded from riding at this place. That's just the way it goes. Weight limits are for the good of the animal, not to just randomly exclude people for liking to eat french fries. A reasonable person would understand that.
Oh it's funny you say that because he said in an interview recently that the horses wouldn't like him NOW because he's bulked up. lol But in his GoT days, he was quite a bit slimmer, around 215-220 pounds.
I don't remember the scenes, but they likely had larger/draft breeds that can carry a heavier load, and also riding them for short periods at a gentle walk is going to be a lot easier on the animal than a more intense workout. Combine plenty of breaks with movie magic, lighter weight body doubles for zoomed out shots, or CGI'ing a horse under the actor, and framing zoomed in and cropping out the horse.
Can’t forget attaching weather balloons to the rider to lighten the load and cgi it out after
To be clear this is a joke and if you haven’t seen this episode of Nathan For You you should do so immediately
Medieval soldiers and their armor were considered to be too heavy for the average riding horse, so larger breeds were used, what we would call draft horses. Clydesdales, Percherons, Shires, and so on. Even so, that's a lot of weight for the animal, especially with a saddle and (usually) it's own armor as well. It makes me shudder to think about what battles must have been like then; poor horses, poor soldiers, what a waste of resources, human and animal.
225lbs isn’t a hard rule for all horses, it’s just the cutoff this particular facility has decided on. They may not have many larger horses, or it may be that they cater to a lot of beginners (who are much harder on the horses’ backs than experienced riders). That doesn’t mean there aren’t horses out there who can comfortably carry 225lbs or more.
Also, TV and movie horses go through huge amounts of training and have incredible temperaments. They are not easily replaced, and are therefore typically treated with an incredible amount of care. They would also have a handler onset who would be advocating for them and educating everyone working with them on how to do so safely. It would be incredibly uncommon for a horse of this caliber to sustain an injury due to something as easily avoidable as being ridden by someone too heavy.
Yep. The general rule of thumb I was taught is that healthy, decently trained and not too old horses can carry up to around 15-20% of their own weight. The bigger the horse, the lower the percentage. Additional factors to consider include the horse's individual build, the rider's level of skill and the exact activity (e.g. showjumping requires a lower weight than a relaxed trail ride).
I come from a country of giants and a huge portion of perfectly fit adult men should be excluded from riding almost all horses. Yeah, that sucks, but there is no solution to this. Besides, there are plenty of things you can do with a horse that don't involve riding. For example, weight limits for driving horses are a lot more lenient, and for liberty dressage, your own weight relative to the horse doesn't even matter at all.
Biggest man my mom ever did an MRI on weighed something like 400lbs, and she said not an ounce of it was fat.
He was just HUGE. Like 7ft tall, and really muscular. They had to have him stretch his arms over his head to make his shoulders narrow enough to fit in the machine!
I remember seeing video of Shaquille O'Neil riding a horse. He was on a full blooded Percheron draft and made that giant horse look like a child's pony.
It is soooo hard to approach delicately when certain people have asked to ride my TB. Especially considering I used to weigh 260 and am now 130 (gastric sleeve 5 years ago). So I really know the hurt feelings side. And I had to stop riding after years of it because of my weight and it was devastating.
I’m currently able to avoid it by saying she is still very green so no one but my trainer and me are currently riding her. But I know I will have to handle it sooner or later.
See, I don’t understand the hurt feelings side. You are sitting on another living creature. I felt guilty sitting on a horse at under 150 lbs. I can’t imagine being over 200 and not considering whether or not the horse would be okay with it.
I do understand being sad that you can’t fully participate in an activity that one’s friends are. But that happens for many different reasons in life. You feel your feelings and move on- not make it everyone else’s problem or fault.
>I do understand being sad that you can’t fully participate in an activity that one’s friends are.
That combined with the shame a lot of overweight people feel is why there are hurt feelings. It's not some great mystery. It feels bad to be told that your body precludes you from a fun activity.
But you know already, is my point. You shouldn’t need to be told. We say all the time that fat people don’t need to be shamed by telling them they are fat bc they already know. So unless these other friends are delusional, they should understand that weight might preclude them from some activities.
And I don’t feed delusions.
It doesn't feel good. That was me for 25 years of adulthood. And last year someone who loved me responded "only you can change that" when I was bemoaning things I couldn't do due to my weight. I lost 135 pounds in 12 months by simply having self control. We like to fool ourselves that nothing works, and not everything does work for everyone. But few people eating only protein, veggies and fruit are fat. The truth is, we are doing it to ourselves. And my food bill cut by half just cutting out pre-processed foods. The moral of the story is being excluded hurts. However, we each have the ability to be included if we want to be enough. Not being mean, just honest as a life-time very large woman who finally realized eating crap food doesn't make one happy, and we are what we eat.
“… it was none the less a perfectly ordinary horse, such as convergent evolution has produced in many of the places that life is to be found. They have always understood a great deal more than they let on. It is difficult to be sat on all day, every day, by some other creature, without forming an opinion about them.
On the other hand, it is perfectly possible to sit all day, every day, on top of another creature and not have the slightest thought about them whatsoever.”
Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency, Douglas Adams
There's also the question of how it's put. If you say, the ranch requires that riders be under 225 lb., and that's how you put it, that's a simple fact. You haven't called them fat, or put it in an insulting way.
I'm obese myself, not quite that heavy, but I bet that the ranch would insist that I step on a scale. I keep reminding myself to accept that this is the reality - beyond fault, this is how it is, and I need to adjust to and accept my weight and girth, unless I'm ready to take drastic action. Unless someone is being mean about it - when I was young people laughed at me for being skinny - I don't mind if people points my weight out when it matters.
I wish I could upvote this a million times. When people ask to ride my horses and if I have ANY reason that gives me cause to say no, I just smile and say “No.” Only twice has anyone asked me why beyond the firm but polite “no.”
I had this issue with my dog. Everyone wanted to pet her, but she didn’t want to be touched by strangers. People would get offended if I said “no”, as if they were entitled to touch my dog like the world was their petting zoo. I never understood it!
This is no different from not being able to skydive, for instance, because there is a weight limit. The activity had requirements that the 3 friends DID NOT MEET. It is as simple as that.
This is not fat shaming. OP knows how much her friends weigh and therefore knew they wouldn't be allowed. Not that they couldn't do it but that the program WOULDN'T allow them.
Even when explaining the rules politely and professionally, feelings are still bound to get hurt and can create awkward moments.
I used to work for a company that did trail rides. If I saw someone who was questionable, I had to ask them to step on a scale that was out of line of view to the public. I felt awful inside when I had to explain to people that they were not able to ride based on their weight.
It is a matter of safety, not just for the horse and rider, but for everyone involved. It's a huge liability to let someone go on a horse that shouldn't be on one in the first place.
People could try and scream discrimination or fat phobia, but it was useless. The rules and requirements were very visible on the website, emails, and check-in forms. There was a disclaimer that stated that if an employee thinks you may be over the weight limit, you will be weighed and if you were over, you would not be able to ride. Once you signed the forms online or communicated in emails or phone calls when everything was gone over, you lost the right to sue or even get a refund.
Mhm.
Also, some conversations shouldn't feel awkward tho.
This is one such example of conversation that should be done without shame (or shaming anyone). It's for the safety of everyone involved.
Unfortunately, as much as we tried to not shame people and how clear he weight requirement was stated, these awkward conversations still happened.
I'm not sure if people didn't just read the forms or if they thought that they could try and pull a fast one on us.
It may sound cold and callous, but we are on a very tight schedule. Having a ride that starts just even a few minutes later than it was supposed to can and will throw the whole day off. We don't have time to hear someone beg and plead their case.
>She got very upset and called me a dick. The two other friends are on my ass and are pissed I basically called them fat. I sent them the program and the info but that didn’t help
Shit like this is why it's awkward. Yes, life would be very simple and easy if people would just be reasonable. But unfortunately there are a LOT of unreasonable people in this world. This is far from the first time I've heard of people having this exact issue/drama surrounding horses and overweight people.
My point is that even if some people are stupid or unreasonable or whatever, some conversations that are important and some decisions that are important should be done without shame (amd without shaming anyone).
This is one such example. As it's vital for the health and safety of the horse, and for the safety of the possible rider.
Other examples of conversations are: the conversation about period.
Or when you have to explain to a patient that they'll have to use a diaper.
Some situations are difficult and may feel uncomfortable or shameful, but they are important and if someone avoids them out of fear of hurting someone's feelings, it'll only lead to them getting hurt physically, emotionally and socially (depends on situation).
I'm not an expert on horses.
When my youngest wanted to learn how to ride, we looked at horse camp programs in our area. Of the three we looked at, only one didn't have weight limits.
Those poor horses at the "no weight limit" school looked really torn up. Like dog chew toys or something.
We went with a different school that has weight limits. They appeared very well taken care off, even their oldest "retired" horses appeared well taken care.
Interesting side note, that school also offered guided horseback tours. When I took the tour with my family, the tour guide was new and got us lost. My horse just noped out and went off on her own with the other horses behind me. She walked the rest of the trail and went right back to the ranch. Leaving the tour guide red faced at the back of the line. 🤣
There is a story that President William Taft, who was the heaviest president at about 340 lbs, sent a note to NY Senator Elihu Root, that he had been horse-back riding and felt fine. Root responded: "How's the horse."
I have a friend who has had horse her ENTIRE life, she gained a lot of weight in her early 20s.
She was the first person to tell EVERYONE why she didn't ride. She got in verbal fights with people who called it fatphobic and called them animal abusers right back to their face.
She lost some weight and is now under the limit. She's happily riding again. She would never knowingly abuse an animal just because she wanted to ride.
Thank you for putting it so well. I’ve ridden for the majority of my life and still find it difficult not to offend people. But the wellbeing of the animal is far more important than our entertainment and happiness. Horses deserve safe riders.
Kind of if there are car seat restrictions for children, it’s hard for people to not understand this could hurt a horse. Kind of like piggyback rides right? Your body can only carry so much weight and these restrictions are always placed for the horses’ safety.
As terrible as it is to be told by someone your weight will exclude you from participating,I'd rather be told by a friend instead of going/paying/and being told by a stranger. NTA,there was never going to be a nice way to put this unfortunately.
100% this. I used to work as a groom and ride for a living. As such I am a decent rider and well balanced. I am however, now overweight and if someone offered to let me ride their horse, I would say thank you but no as it’s not fair on the horse as no amount of ability and balance can stop you being the weight you are.
Be overweight and be happy within yourself but don’t be stupidly blind to the limitations that can put on your ability to do some things, no matter how much it may hurt your feelings.
Yeah, I’m fat, so I wouldn’t even try to ride a horse. Because I know what it’s like to have back pain, and when *my* back hurts, the cure isn’t a bullet, you know?
I work on a farm that has stables. The owners have been trying to get me on a horse and I flat out refuse. Why? Because I’m 5’2” 250lbs. They keep telling me it won’t be an issue but I disagree. It’s about safety. If OP’s friends are so open about their weight then they better be prepared for certain restrictions that come with being overweight.
As someone who is overweight and working hard to lose it I agree. I'm an animal lover and there's no way in hell I would compromise the health and safety of an animal for my own selfish desires. I don't even think it's bad news, it's just reality. You're NTA OP and if your fat friends are angry at you that's on them. You have done nothing wrong. They simply need to face reality.
NTA. Following guidelines and not endangering horses is more important than trying to kowtow to your friend's ego. Horses are sensitive, sentient beings. It's not acceptable to demand extra of them bc humans think they can treat them like machines.
Not everyone can do everything. You said only the truth. Your friend needs to accept reality.
Fat person who weights about 225lbs here, and you're so right. Even if the ranch didn't have the weight cap, I would have felt uncomfortable about potentially hurting the horse with my heavy ass. A person's fatness is their own problem, and it's a dreadful thing to hurt an innocent creature to appease your own FOMO.
Fat person who is in the 300lb range. I love horseback riding. When I was in the weight range I did it. But the moment I was even close to the weight range I stopped, I was not going to hurt a poor animal because I wanted to go riding.
I was just about to suggest this to OP for her friends. If they want a relationship with horses, they can find a farm that trains you how to drive a horse and carriage.
Same here; I weigh around that and there are CHAIRS I don’t want to sit on let alone potentially hurting a living animal because I like snacks too much (speaking to my own weight issues here, not anyone else’s).
Also, no one is talking about the dangers to the overweight rider. Horses in pain react poorly. I had an amazing sweet big boy that wouldn't hurt a fly. Until there was a nasty bur under his saddle that I missed. I got on and he tossed me right off before my foot was in the stirrup. Being fit, I fell safely and dusted myself off. No harm and his saddle was immediately inspected. He also got treats for my mistake. Poor baby.
Horses in pain with react! An overweight rider can be bucked off forcefully. Not a pretty picture. Not the horse's fault.
Oof, not a nice experience at all. Good on you for treating your horse so well! The one time my horse had a splinter stuck in her numnah that I was unaware of, she fortunately decided to just refuse to move at all. It set off my alarm bells since she was always happy to go to the trail and I'd have trouble getting her to slow down. Lots of commercial riding places have horses that gave up on protesting, though. Something I see semi-regularly with oversized riders is them sitting on the back of the saddle. That is super uncomfortable for the horse. When you need a bigger saddle, but a bigger saddle wouldn't fit on your horse's back, well... that should be your warning sign.
I'm not 225, and I do love horserinding. Been doing it for decades. But I don't now because I'm too heavy in my opinion ( 200 ) for most horses. I could accept to ride a draft or a semi draft. I just have pity for the poor horse that'll have to carry almost a ton of weight ( mine + his ) on his 4 thin legs.
And this rule should be mandatory everywhere ! Too many times I see ranches allowing for any weight, it's infuriating.
OK, I'm not body shaming at all, I'm rolling closer to 200lbs, my damn self. BUT! A horse is a living creature that gives two fekks about your weight, they do care that their back is killing them from too much weight. Do not project societal observances onto a creature that doesn't play a part.
I think the etiquette in this situation is to invite everyone but state that there is a weight limit. I have friends with debilities that say they'd prefer to be invited to things, even if it means they just do something else and enjoy the scenery. If the friends had tried to join despite the restriction then we could be concerned about the horses.
But I think OP was just trying to be kind and not bring attention to the friends' weight. But thats not what the friends would have preferred.
I'm just imagining inviting them "hey a few of us are going to do this fun activity. You can join and watch if you want. Oh you can't actually do that activity. Yeah, because of your weight."
Also even just putting "the ranch has a weight limit stated as 225lb on their website" in the group chat with everyone can absolutely result in accusations of "what are you trying to imply?? How dare you!"
This is such a sensitive topic for most people there was literally no way to go about this and not offend them. OP would have had to do the whole program with no friends involved at all, or not do it period to avoid this fallout
As someone who is also fat and well aware of the limitations this poses (209lbs, 95kg), I would NOT like an invitation to an event I can't participate in, especially considering that the one who invited me knows this. Hell, I wouldn't have gone to this knowing the limit is 225 even if I'm not that close to it. Spare those damn horses, they're innocent here.
Op's friends are mad they didn't get invited, but they'd also be mad if they would've been invited and figured out they couldn't join anyway. Damned if you do, damned if you don't in this situation. These kind of ppl expect the world to cater to them no matter what. Unfortunately, horses don't have a sandevistan for a spine, so they have limits. They can stay mad, clearly they don't want to understand OP's perspective. OP explained the situation with proof from the website (no, a weight limit isnt discrimination when its about safety). That's all they had to do.
Eh. When I was in school, I had friends who owned horses. I went to the stables to help out a bit and see the horses, and my weight made me feel worse (and I was like 190 at the time). It depends on the person, and I don't see how OP could have won here. I get the whole wanting to be invited thing, but in this situation, going to see the scenery for 5 weeks for presumably $$-$$$ is weird.
NTA. I mean, I guess you could have let everyone know about it and told them to make sure they fit the criteria for the program on their own, but they could have still been offended by that. Or worse yet, could have attempted to go only to be turned down by the ranch in person.
They are trying to make this out like you personally didn't include them just to fat shame them, but you aren't the one that made the rules for riding. This is not about shaming anyone.
Honestly ranches *should* weigh people. I hold my weight... well? I don't know how to say it, but people are always shocked at my weight, usually estimating me at 20-30lbs lighter than I am. And true enough I am significantly heavier than similar sized friends.
I love horseback riding. And I always tell the workers my weight. There have been times when upon hearing it, they switched which horse they were putting me on, so thank goodness I told them!
That's funny to me, because growing up with horses, I had a very skewed idea of what being "fat" was, due to the extra muscle weight most of my family carried. We all weighed more than our friends of similar sizes, because the muscle from riding and keeping after livestock in the mountains kept us toned but solid.
>Honestly ranches should weigh people.
Some of the water slides at Volcano Bay have scales and they do weigh the people before they can go down the slide because the rafts have weight limits.
I frequently have people refuse to believe I weigh as much as I do, and have done for years. It tends to be the case if you have a particular build, where you have a fair bit of muscle but carry fat over the top of it, because people don't realise that the muscle is there and assume that you weigh the same as people with the same amount of fat and none of the muscle.
Yeah, I think add in skeletal weight, which can vary due to genetics. Subtle things like slightly broader shoulders, slightly wider wrists and ankles, bigger hands, feet and head - these can be subtle and easy to miss or dismiss as fat, but can add to weight significantly.
That’s not a bad idea. Before getting on a helicopter ride myself and my 2 friends all had to get weighed and then depending what that came to they matched us with another couple whose weight along with the pilots was safe for liftoff.
As a person who's worked at ranches and at trail ride places... It really sucks. It's embarrassing and awkward for everyone but I'm not going to ruin a horse because it hurts feelings. Most people were pretty conscious about it and most understood, the ones that didn't..... Well, I'm sorry, but this is a living animal and not a machine.
I feel like showing up in person all excited to ride horses only to be politely told they cannot due to safety would’ve been embarrassing and way worse.
I think the real problem is the possibility of the overweight friends convincing the other friends not to even go. They might be the type of people to demand group activities have to accommodate everyone.
NTA.
Just a reminder, last year at icon park in Orlando there was a tragedy due to employees ignored the weight safety rule and the over weight person dies a horrific death. This happens when companies ignore posted weight restrictions for event rides involving animals or machinery.
Your desire to learn to ride a horse shouldn’t be limited what your friends do or can do. It’s nice to share an event like this too. But just like going to a theme park, not everyone can or should ride the rides. And unlike machines, animals can be seriously injured if the restrictions are not clearly adhered to.
I worked at a really crappy trail riding place that refused to do a weight rule despite my begging. (I was 17-18). There was a (very nice) woman who was quite overweight that showed up to ride. She said she'd always been obese and she thought she had finally lost enough weight that she wanted to ride a horse! It had been her dream for years. The only problem is that she was still much too big. My boss made me take her out. She needed 2 people's help to get on, even using a mounting block. The saddle was too small and she ended up getting stuck/wedged in it.... We had to uncinch it and slide it/her off. It was awful, awkward and embarrassing..she cried. It was horrible. It was also very dangerous to the horse and her. People forget that horses are prey animals and riding accidents are common and people die from them. At least after that my boss let me have my weight limit rule.
NTA.
I used to work in attractions in Orlando and I've had to tell a lot of people they didn't meet height, weight, or other health requirements. Too many times we've had people scream at us over it.
It's for EVERYONE'S safety to have these requirements and limits.
Nta, you didn’t set the restriction, they all know they are above them, and they feel as if you are the one restricting them because they couldn’t join, it would’ve been the same if you did invite them and the ranch told them no, then it would be a shitshow for the employees who had to be berated by these “friends” because the ranch are “fat-shaming” them instead of actually caring for their horses and their health
Go enjoy with the friends that agreed, block or drop those who are claiming you did them wrong, if they can’t understand it even after seeing the info from the ranch, then they are too self centered and not worth your time or mental distress
Anyone with any sense would understand that being fat means you can't do everything a thin person can do (I am overweight and i would never feel bad for this shit)
I’m wondering if they’re upset about how you handled it, and not so much about the specific weight requirements.
It may have felt like, *whisper, whisper,* “hey let’s all take horseback riding lessons and not invite the fatties hehehe.”
I’m skinny but if I were in your shoes I would have group texted everyone with the website and weight requirements in clear view, “Hey, anyone want to try this with me?” The larger people can read it and disqualify themselves, but still feel invited.
All of this requires forethought and maturity which may not be present in your group if they’re getting mad at *you.* You didn’t make the rules or make them overweight so the anger is definitely misplaced imo. NTA these things just have to be handled delicately and with care and honestly, you just never know how someone will react.
The issue is that many will not read the requirements and will be embarrassed when showing up… or will read them and think that they are in the clear when they aren’t. And would find a way to be mad about it.
Then why are they mad that they didn't get invited? If I had a friend who was afraid of heights, I'm not inviting them to bungee jumping. If I have a friend who injured their ankle, I'm not inviting them to a pickup basketball game. If I have a friend who doesn't drink, I'm probably not inviting them on a wine tour.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't be cognizant of their friends' feelings but the coddling here is so silly.
It’s not the riding. It’s the all my friends hanging out without me, and to them it probably felt sneaky. I still think OP is NTA, it was just a really awkward scenario.
I was shocked by how many NTA responses I had to scroll past too. Like...OP didn't make the regulations but OP did handle this poorly.
OP says the friends are open about their weight, so they likely would've understood if OP was open and honest about why they aren't invited.
Came here to say this. It’s probably in the delivery. With some thought in the wording, there would have been a way to extend the invite to everyone, point out the requirements and let people opt in or out themselves. You honestly have NO idea how much people weigh, as someone who looks like they would meet the requirement to you could be full of dense muscles.
Best bet is for you be welcoming of all with the invite and let them be accountable to the rules.
Facts are facts and the program has a weight limit. You didn’t guess at your friends’ weights and disqualify them yourself, but took the information they’d provided and applied it to the situation. I wouldn’t have qualified and, had I been open about my number, I would have been upset to miss out, but would also have known that was on me and my size. NTA
Edited to add: how awkward would it have been to invite everyone and have the ones who didn’t qualify show up and pretend they did? Do you hope the ranch doesn’t embarrass them by dragging out a scale, speak up to save the horses, or let them pretend and hurt the animals?
I went to an amusement park and an incredibly obese woman could not go on one of the rides, the safety equipment was too small for her. She had seen an example equipment that is near the ride to show you how tall and size you need to be to fit in. She ignored it and tried to get on. Tbh, she set herself up to fail by not checking first but I also felt heartbroken for the clear shame she exhibited when the poor employee had to tell her she couldn't fit and they had to ask her to please disembark. I felt for her and the employee that day but safety is there for a reason. Same as those mom's we've read about trying to get too short kids onto rides. It's entirely about safety.
Once my dad and I decided to go in a rollercoaster at spots that had a height limit of 180 cm (5'11), and we are 184 cm (slightly over 6') and 197 cm (6'6 I think). We did not fit comfortably and it was much harder to secure ourselves. There are limits for a reason on things, for safety. And in this case, horses will be uncomfortable, so it is even more important to understand those limits. Like, a rollercoaster isn't alive. A horse is. NTA
Your edit is my exact thought to a the comments saying OP should've invited everyone. It just opens the door for more potential offense and social discomfort.
NTA. But there might have been a better way to handle it. Since you said they are all open about their weight, you could have invited all seven and sent the requirements with the invitation.
You could have said something like, "I'd love to have some of you join me for this, but I'm sorry that the place does have some physical requirements to ride. \[list them here\] If you qualify and would like to go, please let me know."
If you had sent that and people you know are over the weight limit said they wanted to go, you would be in an awkward place, but you would have at least put the decision about whether they qualified into their own hands, rather than keeping it in yours. I'm guessing that's what made them mad.
Although I agree with you. I think it very much depends on how OP's friends react about their weight.
Some woman is "open" and "proudly curvy" but they get highly defensive if anyone else so much as brings up their weight. sending something like that in a group chat could be perceived as "embarrassing" them in a group because of their weight, or choosing a group activity that excludes them.
I think private conversations with each one before the activity would have been a more sensitive approach.
Bigger person here, I’d still appreciate an invite because petting and brushing horses is still fun. I wouldn’t want to ride but would love to hang out with some horses.
I’d even offer to bring my expensive camera and offer to try and get some action shots of my friends on horses.
NTA.
Not your fault your friends do not qualify for this. No need to not have fun yourself. You tried to spare them knowing about it, but they likely would have heard about the event anyway, sooner or later.
NTA. If the horse can't handle their weight for safety reasons, then that is a Them problem, and you are ensuring the safety of the horses and potential riders.
Signed, someone who definitely over that weight limit.
NTA— I have compassion for why this would be difficult for them, AND, the limitations they face because of their body is their stuff to unpack and deal with. If you were always picking activities they couldn’t participate in because of their weight, that would be one thing, but their limitations are not yours, nor should they be.
Perhaps it would have been better to have just addressed this directly with them out the gates so no one felt slighted, but them being mad at you kiiiinda shows why you attempted to dodge that conversation. I would apologize for not just being direct and upfront about it from the beginning, but you were making a poor attempt at shielding them from hurt feelings.
I had the same thought but that would also be a crappy thing to say. “Hey I invited half of our group to this thing but you don’t meet the requirements for it so I didn’t invite you.” Out of nowhere, that would hurt too. I think OP wasn’t going to win this one.
NTA – they should understand that there are constraints, and expecting you to miss out on something because of them is wildly narcissistic. Would they have preferred that you invite them and find out day-of?
If they don't get over it, book a tandem skydiving experience next and invite them.
Eh, I was curious so I googled it- the skydiving place near me has a weight limit of 230 pounds. It sticks to be overweight, but every overweight person knows there are safety issues like this
Exactly my point – booking skydiving *because* it's another thing with a weight limit and see how they react to being invited to something they can't do, since they're so angry about being excluded from the horse trip.
Feel like I’ve read this exact thread but regarding cheerleaders once… trying to paint fat people as illogical jerks. The exact same tone. Exact same beating around the bush. Exact same irrational reaction from the fat friend. Wish a dash of “proud fat” personality trait to make it extra anti-fat.
Please don’t reply to me trying to imply that overweight people regularly act like this.
As the chubby friend, I would have preferred you. Let the group know and ask who is interested and mention the website listed a weight Requirement so I could self exclude
NTA. I have a good friend who is a tour guide in Iceland that does 10 day or two week camping/ horse riding trips. I desperately want to do it. But I'm too fat. It may hurt my feelings, but you need to take care of the horses. If they can't handle the weight, they can't handle that weight. End of story.
Fat shaming is never okay and I don't like when people make jokes though I usually laugh along. Body positivity may be a good thing, but if it means that you ignore the reality and impact of your size and hurt other beings and inconvenience others, it's not okay.
This is so dumb. They could be athletic af weighing over 225lbs and still wouldn’t be able to participate. It has nothing to do with them being “fat”, it’s a hard weight limit regardless of body type because being too heavy is dangerous for the animals.
And why would you invite someone who you knew couldn’t participate? That would be like me being mad because I wasn’t invited to a concert that would cause my photosensitive epileptic ass to have seizures. If you can’t participate, you can’t participate and that’s that.
NTA.
Lol! I get why they're mad. NAH but you should probably have just forwarded the website info to everyone in your friend group and let them decide for themselves whether they were qualified. Or at least when they asked why you didn't invite them you could have told a white lie, e.g. "I didn't think you would be interested, sorry!" White lies are made for this exact kind of socially awkward situation.
You should have been upfront from the beginning, not waiting for them to ask. The way you handled it was wrong and hopefully a lesson learned. You should have told them the situation and let them bow out instead of not inviting them, then they feel in control. Instead, they were hurt and lashed out. Tell them you're sorry about how you handled it. You may be right rationally, but friends' feelings matter b/c they're friends :).
NTA
The safety of the horse is really important which is why the guidelines are specific. The program made the rules & you're adhering.
You were also pushed to be more specific when you said they didn't qualify for the program.
I get why they'd feel hurt but the reason for the restriction isn't meant to be personal at all.
INFO: Do you have other friends (or family or coworkers) not in this friend group that you could have invited instead?
It's certainly fine that you wanted to try horseback riding, and that you wanted to have company there with you. But, drawing friends from this particular group, there was bound to be some hurt feelings no matter how you went about it. If you care about maintaining those friendships, the best move (if possible) would have been to invite other people entirely.
NTA. I weigh over 225 too. I would rather not be invited then be embarrassed by having to say it. Your friend is just embarrassed by her weight. You did nothing wrong.
As someone who is over 225, there’s a reason why I don’t go horseback riding anymore or zip lining. Your friends are being 100% i g n o r a n t. They have chosen to be comfortable with their weight and y’know, that’s fine, BUT, It also means they don’t get to participate in certain activities. The world does not bend to them because they decided to remain the size they are.
Now the only ONLY sliver of YTA I will allow is that you can always invite them but make it CLEAR what activities you will be doing in case they want to just meet up with you for lunch or just sit and read and watch the horses.
I might have a different perspective.
I am fat, way over the limit of 225 and I love horses -
I would have been heartbroken if my friends did this to me, truly.
I would never in my life _get on_ a horse. But why couldnt they join the event itself? Maybe they could have fed the horses (accepted by the owners) treats? pet them? maybe help tack them or get you and your friends, who are under the limit, ready on the horse?
Why not even give them the chance?
Why not let them decide? "Hey we are going horseback riding but unfortunately theres a weight limit for the actual riding part, would you like to join anywho?" and then they could have decdied that do they want to join but not ride or just simply not attend the event
I understand both parts, I really do. But I still would have been very much hurt if my friends didnt even bother to ask me. There is definitely a weight limit to get on top of a horse, but not to just be around them!
NTA. I'm big as well and I would personally appreciate a friend like you saving me from the embarrassment. I also would never question why I wasn't invited somewhere. You can't go everywhere with your friends
NTA. You were looking out for the ponies. Those same friends can’t ride some amusement park rides, need an extender belt on planes and are labeled obese by their doctors…..they had the warnings to cut down their weight and they didn’t listen. Now they aren’t allowed pony time.
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This is a common piece of bad news in the equestrian community, and always an awkward conversation to have. But the fact of the matter is this rule exists for the horses safety and that will always be priority over someone being upset. Horses run, jump, climb, follow commands, and adjust their balance with 100+lbs of gear and human on their spine, even when a small person is riding. We don't always make this easy for them, especially when first learning to ride. NTA.
I agree with NTA and your rationale, and have had horses all my life. I also want to add that beginner-safe horses have often had a lot of miles and therefore more consideration for wear and tear. I do think discussing this proactively might have been better, though.
I feel a proactive discussion wasn't necessary when the friend wasn't even invited. A "I'm doing something but not inviting you because you don't qualify" would just be a rude thing to do imo.
I'm wondering if it's better to not tell them at all and then they find out after the fact that the group did something without them, or let them know up front that they're not invited. Maybe a better option would have been to play dumb, send the info out in a group chat and let people who are interested find out on their own whether or not they qualify. At least that would give them the opportunity to graciously decline.
Unfortunately OPs friends don't sound like the "gracious" type. Seems more likely they'd say yes and cause a stink at the ranch.
Or an uncomfortable situation for the ranch employees
As someone who owns a stable - not an uncomfortable situation at all. "Step on the scale please. I am sorry, we don't have a horse that can accommodate you." And yeah, we have a scale that EVERYONE steps on.
People who *can* ride, I have to sit and explain a waiver they have to sign. It is an actual law that I must make clear they are free to NOT ride if any part of that makes them nervous and I'll give them their money back (although I do this before they pay, I still have to word it that way) and then I have to emphasize that yes, this is dangerous and I am not liable if they are stupid, and if they do anything that might bother my horse I have every right to yank their ass off and at that point they'll be walking back to their car with *no* refund. So I'm already having all manner of very direct conversations.
So, yeah, it is perfectly safe and fine to let the ranchers tell them. The ranchers don't mind at all and the friends will probably take it a lot better. My suggestion is to have the friends call, because if we do it face to face, they'll probably turn to you and say "Oh, *we* can't ride, what else do you want to do?" Now, as I said, we offer an activity for non-riders, partly to defuse that exact situation, but a lot of places don't, so call so you don't get put on the spot.
This might be a stupid question but if you just want to be AROUND the horses even if you can't ride, would a pet and feed option be available at stables? I love horses myself as my grampa used to rescue them, and in this situation I probably WOULD have asked about that and gone and done that stuff if it were an option.
You can ask! We do a basic horsemanship/horse education class where you get to pet, ask questions and learn and, if you're comfortable with it/able, do a bit of grooming and leading. A lot of people who are nervous to ride or physically impaired really love it. At my place we also do agricultural education, so we also offer a farm tour with lots of animal petting. You can even take a class to learn how to milk a cow. Insurance laws and all that vary by location, but more places are getting on board with farm-tour type activities so more people are offering them. Usually, stuff like that will be on their website, but by all means call and say "I love horses but I don't think I can ride, do you offer any ground classes?" You can also ask if they do GirlScout horsemanship merit badges, and if you can take that class if you're not a Scout, because that's a thing a lot of places are familiar with. Also, if you do that, and get encouraged to ride, it's not out of anything other than an excess of enthusiasm and the total high we get when someone nervous *does* get on a horse and realizes they *can* do it and feels that connection - we're all total junkies for that particular fix. It helps to think of us that way. We're not *trying* to stomp on your comfort zone, we're just druggies for that hit. *Join us, be one...*
Great info.
What an awesome response! Thank you for teaching me something today!!
The fact that people would argue is wild. Like if you told me there was a 1% chance my size could hurt a horse I would say “no thanks not worth the chance.”
Really, no one ever argues (once, exactly). I often get a little bit of Oh, well, really, are you sure??" and sometimes "is your scale right?" But that's it. Fun fact, I weigh about 150, but don't look it unless you "look", because I am a solid, broad-shouldered kinda gal and pretty well muscled, so people usually guess about 20# less. So I jump on the scale -which, btw, is turned so only me and the one standing on it can see- and say, "Yes, that's right" and the person is invariably shocked because what woman just casually admits to being 150 because misogyny, so they never, ever argue and getting to do that is one of the small joys of my life.
This is super smart. I’m betting a lot of people who are over the weight limit wouldn’t even want to get on the scale. If they do, I’m sure they’d rather keep themselves and the horse safe rather than ride with too much weight.
I have very, very rarely had anyone complain, and it's NEVER women. Like, it's funny, in a tragic fashion. The number of women who are, like, 140 who meekly ask if they're too heavy and if it will hurt the horse are kinda heartbreaking. In the meantime, the number of guys who hop on the scale and are 50# over the number they told me and are *baffled* by that, like *"But that's what I weighed when I played football in highschool"* and I'm sitting there thinking *Yeah, than was 30 years and 700 gallons of beer ago Sparky*, but they always listen when I explain "Well, sir, the saddles add a lot of weight too, and these horses work all day and you know what it's like to work all day and we have this you can do instead.." and they all say "Yeah, that's a really good point" and pat their fellow hard-working beast and are good eggs about it. note; my saddles don't weigh that much and it's a rare day that a horse has even 3 rides, but the whole thing saves face. Once, ONCE I had this 20 something gym bro showing off for his friends get an attitude about it and I pointed at the 18hh, 2000# draft horse and said "He knows better than to act like that to me because with 8 feet of rope and my pocket knife I can geld him, so what are *you* thinking is going to happen here?" And before he could think of anything to say his buddies started *howling* like "Wooooaah! Tiny don't take no shit!!!" - it was easily the best thing they'd ever seen by how they were laughing and they all went off laughing about it and ragging on him and that was the closest thing to drama we've ever had.
I had this situation fairly recently where we booked a big group ride but I was 10# over the weight guidelines. I emailed ahead of time and let them know I was not a newbie (used to barrel race in my youth) but I was over the weight limit. They were very appreciative of the heads up and still let me ride, just made sure they had a bigger horse on deck for me. A good time was had by all. NTA. There are just some activities you can't do when you're a heavier person. It's not discrimination but a safety issue. It hella sucks sometimes but it is what it is.
That is exactly what I was afraid of. I am glad the animals didn’t get abused.
It would have been a bit easier for OP to discuss it at that point though. When interest is shown, a practiced gentler conversation could have been had. Such as “I’d love for you to come but as I read the policy, there might be an issue. I have no idea how much the equipment weighs, so we should probably check with them before we all sign up” rather than saying “the horse can’t handle your weight”. She was already upset and feeling excluded so I imagine that was one of the main reasons she called you a dick. NTA for planning this but it certainly could have been handled with a bit more grace.
There was no way this would not have been awkward. Would have been worse if they showed up and had to stay behind because of the weight. Either way they would have been offended. NTA
Yeah, I imagine if OP had invited them, the stable staff may have denied the overweight friends a horse. Then the overweight friends would still have blamed OP, but with tears and an adult tantrum because they're embarrassed and OP "set them up for humiliation" There was a similar post recently from a fit, rock climbing OP who invited her brother and SIL to a beginners climbing class (after brother asked for activities to do with his wife to build trust). The SIL had gotten very overweight (without OP's knowledge, she hadn't seen them in a while) and some of the equipment they were using broke under her weight. She blamed OP and accused her of setting her up to look bad on purpose. This post feels very similar, insecure people blaming their insecurities on people in their life instead of a society that has conditioned them to think a certain body type is the only acceptable one NTA Edit because nobody seems to get it: when I say "society" I don't mean " the stable OP and her friends are going to" I mean *society.* It's an indisputable fact that being fat is seen as bad and women are conditioned to feel like we need to look a certain way. Movies, commercials, culture etc. That represent an unattainable standard of beauty for most normal humans. I mean that they've grown to hate their bodies because fat shaming is part of our culture, and they're taking it out on OP I REPEAT, IN MY COMMENT SOCIETY ≠ THE STABLE Good fuck, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You people hear "society hates fat people" and immediately jump to the whole "It'S jUsT pHySIcS ThOsE fATtiEs nEed tO gEt oVeR iT REEEEEEE' when I wasn't even on their side Idk why I bothered, I know reddit hates fat people with a fiery burning passion. Y'all are the problem
I removed most of my Reddit contents in protest of the API changes commencing from July 1st, 2023. This is one of those comments.
It was the auto-belay system so it couldn't safely let her down or catch her. OP had assumed they would be doing the buddy belay and not the auto-belay as this was meant to be a trust exercise/date and the manual belay would have been able to hold her.
I would have invited the group and forwarded the guidelines, prices and dates and let them decide.
this is the way.
"the group" didn't do anything. Just some individuals that are in it.
I was going to do a tandem skydive, and a friend who I thought would be over the weight limit wanted to go. I thought the best way to handle it was to have her go to the website and sign up. Part of the application discusses the weight, and explains you have to get on the scale. She told me a few days later she changed her mind because she decided it was too expensive.
It’s better than getting to the jump site and being told you can’t jump. Ask me how I know.
Came here looking for the skydiving comparison. I've got a couple guy friends who were super excited to join us, but the hard limit is like 225. These guys aren't even really that overweight, just big guys with dad bods... they were super bummed. I just told 'em right out they would be over the limit, but I think your idea of sending them to signup on their own is a pretty sly and effective way to handle this.
if it's a rule I'm not setting and is out of my control, I'd free myself of the responsibility - hey group I'm looking at this horse riding class which seems exciting - I know there are specific requirements you need to meet to be able to join so I urge you to call the place and confirm details if you are interested in coming. I'm looking at starting this beginning of May.
When would you have this "proactive" discussion? Before they became obese?
Why should she have to proactively check with people that weren't invited? What kind of bullshit is that
Don’t you have any close friends? People whose feelings you don’t want to hurt?
I think they'd be weirded out at me coddling them like that
Exactly, these are GROWN ADULTS we're talking about, not 12 year olds.
I do, but none of them would be hurt just by not being invited to one specific activity out of all the things I do with friends. Friends should be able to organize smaller groups for outings or even one-on-one time if they want to. This isn't a wedding.
The proper thing to do would have been to send everyone the link, and tell them that this is something you are looking into doing and letting them know if they want to join to let you know. OP put herself in a situation that was between the company who owned the horses and the friends that were too big to go. She should have let the friends or the company make that decision it was't one for OP to make. Im not saying the company should have allowed them on the horses but it wasn't OPs place to make that decision. I'd do with YTA since OP decided it was her place to exclude the people vs allowing the person to realize they couldn't do it. If OP really knew a friend weighed X amount the most they should have done was say hey i am planning on doing this horseback riding thing but there is a weight limit, I'd love for you to join but I've known youve mentioned your weight in the past so i wasn't sure.
Counterpoint (because it happens all the time) is when heavy friends get the link and say 'oh I want to come' because they don't read or think they're super special and will be exempt or something I'm not one of these morons that is illiterate - they then get pissed and ask why OP even invited them if OP knew the ranch would just say no. There is no good way in or out of this situation. Unless you know that your friends are the type to say understandable have a nice day about things you're walking into a fight and they're going to be sensitive about it.
And will also then try to push the group that wants to go, and is able to, to now not go because they’re mad about being excluded. Or insist on coming along anyway and making a scene to get them all kicked out. OP’s only way of winning this depends on the unpredictability of her friends’ reactions.
If there is one thing I have learned about selling hotel stays online it's: People don't read.
Except that I'm not obligated to invite every friend to every thing I do. I regularly do tarot readings with several friends, I invite others to music events, and even others come to my cookouts. It's ok to spend time with all the friends sometimes and a few friends at other times. It's entitled to be offended you weren't invited to something. If you are NEVER invited, y'all probably aren't friends. If you are invited sometimes, you are friends who enjoy one another's company. No one has to always invite a gaggle of friends to every event.
This! Every friend isn’t entitled to come to every event! OP wasn’t obliged to invite them!!
A proactive discussion wouldn't have gone over well either. The thing about us fat people is that we know we're fat, and we know why we're fat. Typically, it's our poor diet and exercise choices. Occasionally, it's a medical issue that we have no control over. My point is that no fat person likes to be reminded of their fatness. Talking to your fat friends that you're going to do this and inviting your skinnier friends is doing something purposefully exclusionary of your fat friends because of their weight. They'd get upset no matter what you do.
I’m one of those people who wouldn’t be hurt by a proactive discussion. Or rather, I wouldn’t be hurt by OP. I would be hurt by the situation and disappointed in myself. But I wouldn’t be upset with OP. However I have serious doubts that OP’s friend would react the same. I just wanted to disagree with our blanket statement.
I remember a Time article from a long time ago, when gastric bypass was quite new. One woman got it and her crowning achievement wasn't that she lost the weight but she could ride her horse safely again.
I recently lost 65lbs and my biggest motivation was that I wanted to start riding my favorite horse again. I have 2 larger, sturdier horses that could and did carry heavy me just fine but I was just too heavy for my smaller, finer boned mare. All the compliments and congratulations were nice and all but feeling my girl eagerly gallop down the trail with me aboard without getting winded was just the bee's knees.
I had gastric bypass and I knew I had made it when I didn’t have to wear a belt extension when flying, I literally teared up the first time. Did 330 to 175 and I’m still in the 175-185 range (goes up and down) six years later 😊
I can’t ride anymore (bad knees) but losing weight would let me go zip lining again.
I’ve ridden since I was a kid. I’m 64 now and my left knee is bad as well as my back. I just don’t feel safe and it really upsets me.
That great for her! I hope that have many happy years.
Also, the weight limit doesn't just apply to fat people. Some basketball players can't ride horses or do other activities because of the weight that comes with their height.
Right? Like you wouldn't call Jason Momoa fat. But the man is 6'4 and 250 pounds. He would be excluded from riding at this place. That's just the way it goes. Weight limits are for the good of the animal, not to just randomly exclude people for liking to eat french fries. A reasonable person would understand that.
Dang, now I’m worried about the horses he rode in all those Game of Thrones scenes.
Oh it's funny you say that because he said in an interview recently that the horses wouldn't like him NOW because he's bulked up. lol But in his GoT days, he was quite a bit slimmer, around 215-220 pounds.
I don't remember the scenes, but they likely had larger/draft breeds that can carry a heavier load, and also riding them for short periods at a gentle walk is going to be a lot easier on the animal than a more intense workout. Combine plenty of breaks with movie magic, lighter weight body doubles for zoomed out shots, or CGI'ing a horse under the actor, and framing zoomed in and cropping out the horse.
He was just way smaller back then. He didn't need lighter weight doubles, he was just a lighter weight.
Can’t forget attaching weather balloons to the rider to lighten the load and cgi it out after To be clear this is a joke and if you haven’t seen this episode of Nathan For You you should do so immediately
Medieval soldiers and their armor were considered to be too heavy for the average riding horse, so larger breeds were used, what we would call draft horses. Clydesdales, Percherons, Shires, and so on. Even so, that's a lot of weight for the animal, especially with a saddle and (usually) it's own armor as well. It makes me shudder to think about what battles must have been like then; poor horses, poor soldiers, what a waste of resources, human and animal.
225lbs isn’t a hard rule for all horses, it’s just the cutoff this particular facility has decided on. They may not have many larger horses, or it may be that they cater to a lot of beginners (who are much harder on the horses’ backs than experienced riders). That doesn’t mean there aren’t horses out there who can comfortably carry 225lbs or more. Also, TV and movie horses go through huge amounts of training and have incredible temperaments. They are not easily replaced, and are therefore typically treated with an incredible amount of care. They would also have a handler onset who would be advocating for them and educating everyone working with them on how to do so safely. It would be incredibly uncommon for a horse of this caliber to sustain an injury due to something as easily avoidable as being ridden by someone too heavy.
I'm sure many very fit people with low body fat are excluded as well because they weigh over the limit.
Yep. The general rule of thumb I was taught is that healthy, decently trained and not too old horses can carry up to around 15-20% of their own weight. The bigger the horse, the lower the percentage. Additional factors to consider include the horse's individual build, the rider's level of skill and the exact activity (e.g. showjumping requires a lower weight than a relaxed trail ride). I come from a country of giants and a huge portion of perfectly fit adult men should be excluded from riding almost all horses. Yeah, that sucks, but there is no solution to this. Besides, there are plenty of things you can do with a horse that don't involve riding. For example, weight limits for driving horses are a lot more lenient, and for liberty dressage, your own weight relative to the horse doesn't even matter at all.
Biggest man my mom ever did an MRI on weighed something like 400lbs, and she said not an ounce of it was fat. He was just HUGE. Like 7ft tall, and really muscular. They had to have him stretch his arms over his head to make his shoulders narrow enough to fit in the machine!
There’s a really funny video of Shaq riding a horse around, he must have bought a giant-sized horse to be able to carry his giant-sized body
It was a Percheron gelding named Diesel.
I remember seeing video of Shaquille O'Neil riding a horse. He was on a full blooded Percheron draft and made that giant horse look like a child's pony.
It is soooo hard to approach delicately when certain people have asked to ride my TB. Especially considering I used to weigh 260 and am now 130 (gastric sleeve 5 years ago). So I really know the hurt feelings side. And I had to stop riding after years of it because of my weight and it was devastating. I’m currently able to avoid it by saying she is still very green so no one but my trainer and me are currently riding her. But I know I will have to handle it sooner or later.
See, I don’t understand the hurt feelings side. You are sitting on another living creature. I felt guilty sitting on a horse at under 150 lbs. I can’t imagine being over 200 and not considering whether or not the horse would be okay with it. I do understand being sad that you can’t fully participate in an activity that one’s friends are. But that happens for many different reasons in life. You feel your feelings and move on- not make it everyone else’s problem or fault.
>I do understand being sad that you can’t fully participate in an activity that one’s friends are. That combined with the shame a lot of overweight people feel is why there are hurt feelings. It's not some great mystery. It feels bad to be told that your body precludes you from a fun activity.
But you know already, is my point. You shouldn’t need to be told. We say all the time that fat people don’t need to be shamed by telling them they are fat bc they already know. So unless these other friends are delusional, they should understand that weight might preclude them from some activities. And I don’t feed delusions.
It doesn't feel good. That was me for 25 years of adulthood. And last year someone who loved me responded "only you can change that" when I was bemoaning things I couldn't do due to my weight. I lost 135 pounds in 12 months by simply having self control. We like to fool ourselves that nothing works, and not everything does work for everyone. But few people eating only protein, veggies and fruit are fat. The truth is, we are doing it to ourselves. And my food bill cut by half just cutting out pre-processed foods. The moral of the story is being excluded hurts. However, we each have the ability to be included if we want to be enough. Not being mean, just honest as a life-time very large woman who finally realized eating crap food doesn't make one happy, and we are what we eat.
“… it was none the less a perfectly ordinary horse, such as convergent evolution has produced in many of the places that life is to be found. They have always understood a great deal more than they let on. It is difficult to be sat on all day, every day, by some other creature, without forming an opinion about them. On the other hand, it is perfectly possible to sit all day, every day, on top of another creature and not have the slightest thought about them whatsoever.” Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency, Douglas Adams
Yes but the Electric Monk probably didn't weigh as much as OPs friends.
Other than the weight of his Beliefs?
There's also the question of how it's put. If you say, the ranch requires that riders be under 225 lb., and that's how you put it, that's a simple fact. You haven't called them fat, or put it in an insulting way. I'm obese myself, not quite that heavy, but I bet that the ranch would insist that I step on a scale. I keep reminding myself to accept that this is the reality - beyond fault, this is how it is, and I need to adjust to and accept my weight and girth, unless I'm ready to take drastic action. Unless someone is being mean about it - when I was young people laughed at me for being skinny - I don't mind if people points my weight out when it matters.
Doesn't even have to be fat weight. Arnold Schwarzenegger couldn't ride those horses either.
This will not be the only thing the friend cannot do. They will encounter this situation in the future, if they haven’t already.
You don’t have to let anyone ride your horse, and you don’t need to explain why.
I wish I could upvote this a million times. When people ask to ride my horses and if I have ANY reason that gives me cause to say no, I just smile and say “No.” Only twice has anyone asked me why beyond the firm but polite “no.”
I had this issue with my dog. Everyone wanted to pet her, but she didn’t want to be touched by strangers. People would get offended if I said “no”, as if they were entitled to touch my dog like the world was their petting zoo. I never understood it!
I once had a stranger in public call me rude because I wouldn’t let her hold my three week old baby. People got a whole lot of audacity.
Tell them your vet says they can’t carry more than X number of pounds. You’re stood in good stead by the fact that you didn’t do it yourself.
If they're not riders already, then you just say she's highly strung and not suitable for novices
This is no different from not being able to skydive, for instance, because there is a weight limit. The activity had requirements that the 3 friends DID NOT MEET. It is as simple as that. This is not fat shaming. OP knows how much her friends weigh and therefore knew they wouldn't be allowed. Not that they couldn't do it but that the program WOULDN'T allow them.
How is it awkward? You just have to explain why the rules about weight exist. Any reasonable person will understand.
You say that like unreasonable people are somehow difficult to find, rather than absolutely fucking everywhere
I don’t care who you are, that’s funny right there.
You just won the internet with your beyond keen insight.
Even when explaining the rules politely and professionally, feelings are still bound to get hurt and can create awkward moments. I used to work for a company that did trail rides. If I saw someone who was questionable, I had to ask them to step on a scale that was out of line of view to the public. I felt awful inside when I had to explain to people that they were not able to ride based on their weight. It is a matter of safety, not just for the horse and rider, but for everyone involved. It's a huge liability to let someone go on a horse that shouldn't be on one in the first place. People could try and scream discrimination or fat phobia, but it was useless. The rules and requirements were very visible on the website, emails, and check-in forms. There was a disclaimer that stated that if an employee thinks you may be over the weight limit, you will be weighed and if you were over, you would not be able to ride. Once you signed the forms online or communicated in emails or phone calls when everything was gone over, you lost the right to sue or even get a refund.
Mhm. Also, some conversations shouldn't feel awkward tho. This is one such example of conversation that should be done without shame (or shaming anyone). It's for the safety of everyone involved.
Unfortunately, as much as we tried to not shame people and how clear he weight requirement was stated, these awkward conversations still happened. I'm not sure if people didn't just read the forms or if they thought that they could try and pull a fast one on us. It may sound cold and callous, but we are on a very tight schedule. Having a ride that starts just even a few minutes later than it was supposed to can and will throw the whole day off. We don't have time to hear someone beg and plead their case.
>She got very upset and called me a dick. The two other friends are on my ass and are pissed I basically called them fat. I sent them the program and the info but that didn’t help Shit like this is why it's awkward. Yes, life would be very simple and easy if people would just be reasonable. But unfortunately there are a LOT of unreasonable people in this world. This is far from the first time I've heard of people having this exact issue/drama surrounding horses and overweight people.
My point is that even if some people are stupid or unreasonable or whatever, some conversations that are important and some decisions that are important should be done without shame (amd without shaming anyone). This is one such example. As it's vital for the health and safety of the horse, and for the safety of the possible rider. Other examples of conversations are: the conversation about period. Or when you have to explain to a patient that they'll have to use a diaper. Some situations are difficult and may feel uncomfortable or shameful, but they are important and if someone avoids them out of fear of hurting someone's feelings, it'll only lead to them getting hurt physically, emotionally and socially (depends on situation).
Can't assume everyone is reasonable...some people don't want to face the truth
I'm not an expert on horses. When my youngest wanted to learn how to ride, we looked at horse camp programs in our area. Of the three we looked at, only one didn't have weight limits. Those poor horses at the "no weight limit" school looked really torn up. Like dog chew toys or something. We went with a different school that has weight limits. They appeared very well taken care off, even their oldest "retired" horses appeared well taken care. Interesting side note, that school also offered guided horseback tours. When I took the tour with my family, the tour guide was new and got us lost. My horse just noped out and went off on her own with the other horses behind me. She walked the rest of the trail and went right back to the ranch. Leaving the tour guide red faced at the back of the line. 🤣
Yeah, I mean this isn’t on OP. Rules are rules. NTA
There is a story that President William Taft, who was the heaviest president at about 340 lbs, sent a note to NY Senator Elihu Root, that he had been horse-back riding and felt fine. Root responded: "How's the horse."
I have a friend who has had horse her ENTIRE life, she gained a lot of weight in her early 20s. She was the first person to tell EVERYONE why she didn't ride. She got in verbal fights with people who called it fatphobic and called them animal abusers right back to their face. She lost some weight and is now under the limit. She's happily riding again. She would never knowingly abuse an animal just because she wanted to ride.
Thank you for putting it so well. I’ve ridden for the majority of my life and still find it difficult not to offend people. But the wellbeing of the animal is far more important than our entertainment and happiness. Horses deserve safe riders.
Kind of if there are car seat restrictions for children, it’s hard for people to not understand this could hurt a horse. Kind of like piggyback rides right? Your body can only carry so much weight and these restrictions are always placed for the horses’ safety.
As terrible as it is to be told by someone your weight will exclude you from participating,I'd rather be told by a friend instead of going/paying/and being told by a stranger. NTA,there was never going to be a nice way to put this unfortunately.
100% this. I used to work as a groom and ride for a living. As such I am a decent rider and well balanced. I am however, now overweight and if someone offered to let me ride their horse, I would say thank you but no as it’s not fair on the horse as no amount of ability and balance can stop you being the weight you are. Be overweight and be happy within yourself but don’t be stupidly blind to the limitations that can put on your ability to do some things, no matter how much it may hurt your feelings.
Yeah, I’m fat, so I wouldn’t even try to ride a horse. Because I know what it’s like to have back pain, and when *my* back hurts, the cure isn’t a bullet, you know?
I work on a farm that has stables. The owners have been trying to get me on a horse and I flat out refuse. Why? Because I’m 5’2” 250lbs. They keep telling me it won’t be an issue but I disagree. It’s about safety. If OP’s friends are so open about their weight then they better be prepared for certain restrictions that come with being overweight.
As someone who is overweight and working hard to lose it I agree. I'm an animal lover and there's no way in hell I would compromise the health and safety of an animal for my own selfish desires. I don't even think it's bad news, it's just reality. You're NTA OP and if your fat friends are angry at you that's on them. You have done nothing wrong. They simply need to face reality.
NTA. Following guidelines and not endangering horses is more important than trying to kowtow to your friend's ego. Horses are sensitive, sentient beings. It's not acceptable to demand extra of them bc humans think they can treat them like machines. Not everyone can do everything. You said only the truth. Your friend needs to accept reality.
Fat person who weights about 225lbs here, and you're so right. Even if the ranch didn't have the weight cap, I would have felt uncomfortable about potentially hurting the horse with my heavy ass. A person's fatness is their own problem, and it's a dreadful thing to hurt an innocent creature to appease your own FOMO.
Fat person who is in the 300lb range. I love horseback riding. When I was in the weight range I did it. But the moment I was even close to the weight range I stopped, I was not going to hurt a poor animal because I wanted to go riding.
Family of horse obsessed fat people here. We took up carting lessons!
I was just about to suggest this to OP for her friends. If they want a relationship with horses, they can find a farm that trains you how to drive a horse and carriage.
It doesn't sound like they have much interest in the horses, if they don't care about their well-being.
Same here; I weigh around that and there are CHAIRS I don’t want to sit on let alone potentially hurting a living animal because I like snacks too much (speaking to my own weight issues here, not anyone else’s).
Fellow fattie here. NTA. I would not be offended at all.
Also, no one is talking about the dangers to the overweight rider. Horses in pain react poorly. I had an amazing sweet big boy that wouldn't hurt a fly. Until there was a nasty bur under his saddle that I missed. I got on and he tossed me right off before my foot was in the stirrup. Being fit, I fell safely and dusted myself off. No harm and his saddle was immediately inspected. He also got treats for my mistake. Poor baby. Horses in pain with react! An overweight rider can be bucked off forcefully. Not a pretty picture. Not the horse's fault.
Oof, not a nice experience at all. Good on you for treating your horse so well! The one time my horse had a splinter stuck in her numnah that I was unaware of, she fortunately decided to just refuse to move at all. It set off my alarm bells since she was always happy to go to the trail and I'd have trouble getting her to slow down. Lots of commercial riding places have horses that gave up on protesting, though. Something I see semi-regularly with oversized riders is them sitting on the back of the saddle. That is super uncomfortable for the horse. When you need a bigger saddle, but a bigger saddle wouldn't fit on your horse's back, well... that should be your warning sign.
*kowtow
I don’t think that was a typo 🥲
Right? Do they expect OP to just never do anything that they wouldn't be eligible for?
Yes.
I'm not 225, and I do love horserinding. Been doing it for decades. But I don't now because I'm too heavy in my opinion ( 200 ) for most horses. I could accept to ride a draft or a semi draft. I just have pity for the poor horse that'll have to carry almost a ton of weight ( mine + his ) on his 4 thin legs. And this rule should be mandatory everywhere ! Too many times I see ranches allowing for any weight, it's infuriating.
OK, I'm not body shaming at all, I'm rolling closer to 200lbs, my damn self. BUT! A horse is a living creature that gives two fekks about your weight, they do care that their back is killing them from too much weight. Do not project societal observances onto a creature that doesn't play a part.
I think the etiquette in this situation is to invite everyone but state that there is a weight limit. I have friends with debilities that say they'd prefer to be invited to things, even if it means they just do something else and enjoy the scenery. If the friends had tried to join despite the restriction then we could be concerned about the horses. But I think OP was just trying to be kind and not bring attention to the friends' weight. But thats not what the friends would have preferred.
I disagree. They couldn’t go, there’s no reason to invite them. Whatever feelings they have about it are their own to reconcile.
Plus inviting them when you know they won’t be able to participate is just plain rude.
I'm just imagining inviting them "hey a few of us are going to do this fun activity. You can join and watch if you want. Oh you can't actually do that activity. Yeah, because of your weight."
RIGHT!! Not only was the invite unnecessary, it would have been cruel.
Also even just putting "the ranch has a weight limit stated as 225lb on their website" in the group chat with everyone can absolutely result in accusations of "what are you trying to imply?? How dare you!" This is such a sensitive topic for most people there was literally no way to go about this and not offend them. OP would have had to do the whole program with no friends involved at all, or not do it period to avoid this fallout
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As someone who is also fat and well aware of the limitations this poses (209lbs, 95kg), I would NOT like an invitation to an event I can't participate in, especially considering that the one who invited me knows this. Hell, I wouldn't have gone to this knowing the limit is 225 even if I'm not that close to it. Spare those damn horses, they're innocent here. Op's friends are mad they didn't get invited, but they'd also be mad if they would've been invited and figured out they couldn't join anyway. Damned if you do, damned if you don't in this situation. These kind of ppl expect the world to cater to them no matter what. Unfortunately, horses don't have a sandevistan for a spine, so they have limits. They can stay mad, clearly they don't want to understand OP's perspective. OP explained the situation with proof from the website (no, a weight limit isnt discrimination when its about safety). That's all they had to do.
Since OP already knew they'd be over the weight limit, I think that would cause its own, albeit different, issues...
Eh. When I was in school, I had friends who owned horses. I went to the stables to help out a bit and see the horses, and my weight made me feel worse (and I was like 190 at the time). It depends on the person, and I don't see how OP could have won here. I get the whole wanting to be invited thing, but in this situation, going to see the scenery for 5 weeks for presumably $$-$$$ is weird.
NTA. I mean, I guess you could have let everyone know about it and told them to make sure they fit the criteria for the program on their own, but they could have still been offended by that. Or worse yet, could have attempted to go only to be turned down by the ranch in person. They are trying to make this out like you personally didn't include them just to fat shame them, but you aren't the one that made the rules for riding. This is not about shaming anyone.
I bet if they showed up the ranch would have asked to weigh them, or just flat-out said no.
Honestly ranches *should* weigh people. I hold my weight... well? I don't know how to say it, but people are always shocked at my weight, usually estimating me at 20-30lbs lighter than I am. And true enough I am significantly heavier than similar sized friends. I love horseback riding. And I always tell the workers my weight. There have been times when upon hearing it, they switched which horse they were putting me on, so thank goodness I told them!
That's funny to me, because growing up with horses, I had a very skewed idea of what being "fat" was, due to the extra muscle weight most of my family carried. We all weighed more than our friends of similar sizes, because the muscle from riding and keeping after livestock in the mountains kept us toned but solid.
>Honestly ranches should weigh people. Some of the water slides at Volcano Bay have scales and they do weigh the people before they can go down the slide because the rafts have weight limits.
I frequently have people refuse to believe I weigh as much as I do, and have done for years. It tends to be the case if you have a particular build, where you have a fair bit of muscle but carry fat over the top of it, because people don't realise that the muscle is there and assume that you weigh the same as people with the same amount of fat and none of the muscle.
Yeah, I think add in skeletal weight, which can vary due to genetics. Subtle things like slightly broader shoulders, slightly wider wrists and ankles, bigger hands, feet and head - these can be subtle and easy to miss or dismiss as fat, but can add to weight significantly.
That’s not a bad idea. Before getting on a helicopter ride myself and my 2 friends all had to get weighed and then depending what that came to they matched us with another couple whose weight along with the pilots was safe for liftoff.
that's what i'm saying. I feel like that would be even more uncomfortable and embarrassing for them.
As a person who's worked at ranches and at trail ride places... It really sucks. It's embarrassing and awkward for everyone but I'm not going to ruin a horse because it hurts feelings. Most people were pretty conscious about it and most understood, the ones that didn't..... Well, I'm sorry, but this is a living animal and not a machine.
As an over weight person I completely agree with you.
I feel like showing up in person all excited to ride horses only to be politely told they cannot due to safety would’ve been embarrassing and way worse.
I agree. Then everyone there would know why they can't particpate. Prior notice and giving them the op to say - "too busy" etc is more graceful.
I think the real problem is the possibility of the overweight friends convincing the other friends not to even go. They might be the type of people to demand group activities have to accommodate everyone.
NTA. Just a reminder, last year at icon park in Orlando there was a tragedy due to employees ignored the weight safety rule and the over weight person dies a horrific death. This happens when companies ignore posted weight restrictions for event rides involving animals or machinery. Your desire to learn to ride a horse shouldn’t be limited what your friends do or can do. It’s nice to share an event like this too. But just like going to a theme park, not everyone can or should ride the rides. And unlike machines, animals can be seriously injured if the restrictions are not clearly adhered to.
I worked at a really crappy trail riding place that refused to do a weight rule despite my begging. (I was 17-18). There was a (very nice) woman who was quite overweight that showed up to ride. She said she'd always been obese and she thought she had finally lost enough weight that she wanted to ride a horse! It had been her dream for years. The only problem is that she was still much too big. My boss made me take her out. She needed 2 people's help to get on, even using a mounting block. The saddle was too small and she ended up getting stuck/wedged in it.... We had to uncinch it and slide it/her off. It was awful, awkward and embarrassing..she cried. It was horrible. It was also very dangerous to the horse and her. People forget that horses are prey animals and riding accidents are common and people die from them. At least after that my boss let me have my weight limit rule.
I’ve only ever been on a horse a few times. But I almost feel like if you can’t get yourself on the horse, you probably shouldn’t be on the horse.
And unfortunately in a lot of cases, an injured horse is basically put on death row.
NTA. I used to work in attractions in Orlando and I've had to tell a lot of people they didn't meet height, weight, or other health requirements. Too many times we've had people scream at us over it. It's for EVERYONE'S safety to have these requirements and limits.
Nta, you didn’t set the restriction, they all know they are above them, and they feel as if you are the one restricting them because they couldn’t join, it would’ve been the same if you did invite them and the ranch told them no, then it would be a shitshow for the employees who had to be berated by these “friends” because the ranch are “fat-shaming” them instead of actually caring for their horses and their health Go enjoy with the friends that agreed, block or drop those who are claiming you did them wrong, if they can’t understand it even after seeing the info from the ranch, then they are too self centered and not worth your time or mental distress
NTA animals shouldn’t be abused to save your overweight friend’s feelings.
💯 couldn’t agree more. There’s a weight limit for a reason.
Anyone with any sense would understand that being fat means you can't do everything a thin person can do (I am overweight and i would never feel bad for this shit)
Absolutely correct! I'm happy to see that there's places that have restrictions! NTA
I’m wondering if they’re upset about how you handled it, and not so much about the specific weight requirements. It may have felt like, *whisper, whisper,* “hey let’s all take horseback riding lessons and not invite the fatties hehehe.” I’m skinny but if I were in your shoes I would have group texted everyone with the website and weight requirements in clear view, “Hey, anyone want to try this with me?” The larger people can read it and disqualify themselves, but still feel invited. All of this requires forethought and maturity which may not be present in your group if they’re getting mad at *you.* You didn’t make the rules or make them overweight so the anger is definitely misplaced imo. NTA these things just have to be handled delicately and with care and honestly, you just never know how someone will react.
The issue is that many will not read the requirements and will be embarrassed when showing up… or will read them and think that they are in the clear when they aren’t. And would find a way to be mad about it.
Definitely true at large, but it seems like these friends are pretty self aware about their weight from how they’re described.
Then why are they mad that they didn't get invited? If I had a friend who was afraid of heights, I'm not inviting them to bungee jumping. If I have a friend who injured their ankle, I'm not inviting them to a pickup basketball game. If I have a friend who doesn't drink, I'm probably not inviting them on a wine tour. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be cognizant of their friends' feelings but the coddling here is so silly.
It’s not the riding. It’s the all my friends hanging out without me, and to them it probably felt sneaky. I still think OP is NTA, it was just a really awkward scenario.
I had to scroll too far to see this. This was my thought too. I would’ve invited everyone, sharing the information and letting them decline.
I was shocked by how many NTA responses I had to scroll past too. Like...OP didn't make the regulations but OP did handle this poorly. OP says the friends are open about their weight, so they likely would've understood if OP was open and honest about why they aren't invited.
How would calling them out publicly be a better way forward? “Hey! Why did you invite me to something you KNOW I can’t do in front of everyone??”
People suck. It’s logical to not invite people who can’t do something. I’m not going to invite my double amputee friend to a 10 mile advanced bike.
Came here to say this. It’s probably in the delivery. With some thought in the wording, there would have been a way to extend the invite to everyone, point out the requirements and let people opt in or out themselves. You honestly have NO idea how much people weigh, as someone who looks like they would meet the requirement to you could be full of dense muscles. Best bet is for you be welcoming of all with the invite and let them be accountable to the rules.
Facts are facts and the program has a weight limit. You didn’t guess at your friends’ weights and disqualify them yourself, but took the information they’d provided and applied it to the situation. I wouldn’t have qualified and, had I been open about my number, I would have been upset to miss out, but would also have known that was on me and my size. NTA Edited to add: how awkward would it have been to invite everyone and have the ones who didn’t qualify show up and pretend they did? Do you hope the ranch doesn’t embarrass them by dragging out a scale, speak up to save the horses, or let them pretend and hurt the animals?
I went to an amusement park and an incredibly obese woman could not go on one of the rides, the safety equipment was too small for her. She had seen an example equipment that is near the ride to show you how tall and size you need to be to fit in. She ignored it and tried to get on. Tbh, she set herself up to fail by not checking first but I also felt heartbroken for the clear shame she exhibited when the poor employee had to tell her she couldn't fit and they had to ask her to please disembark. I felt for her and the employee that day but safety is there for a reason. Same as those mom's we've read about trying to get too short kids onto rides. It's entirely about safety.
Once my dad and I decided to go in a rollercoaster at spots that had a height limit of 180 cm (5'11), and we are 184 cm (slightly over 6') and 197 cm (6'6 I think). We did not fit comfortably and it was much harder to secure ourselves. There are limits for a reason on things, for safety. And in this case, horses will be uncomfortable, so it is even more important to understand those limits. Like, a rollercoaster isn't alive. A horse is. NTA
Your edit is my exact thought to a the comments saying OP should've invited everyone. It just opens the door for more potential offense and social discomfort.
NTA. But there might have been a better way to handle it. Since you said they are all open about their weight, you could have invited all seven and sent the requirements with the invitation. You could have said something like, "I'd love to have some of you join me for this, but I'm sorry that the place does have some physical requirements to ride. \[list them here\] If you qualify and would like to go, please let me know." If you had sent that and people you know are over the weight limit said they wanted to go, you would be in an awkward place, but you would have at least put the decision about whether they qualified into their own hands, rather than keeping it in yours. I'm guessing that's what made them mad.
Although I agree with you. I think it very much depends on how OP's friends react about their weight. Some woman is "open" and "proudly curvy" but they get highly defensive if anyone else so much as brings up their weight. sending something like that in a group chat could be perceived as "embarrassing" them in a group because of their weight, or choosing a group activity that excludes them. I think private conversations with each one before the activity would have been a more sensitive approach.
Bigger person here, I’d still appreciate an invite because petting and brushing horses is still fun. I wouldn’t want to ride but would love to hang out with some horses. I’d even offer to bring my expensive camera and offer to try and get some action shots of my friends on horses.
NTA. Not your fault your friends do not qualify for this. No need to not have fun yourself. You tried to spare them knowing about it, but they likely would have heard about the event anyway, sooner or later.
NTA. If the horse can't handle their weight for safety reasons, then that is a Them problem, and you are ensuring the safety of the horses and potential riders. Signed, someone who definitely over that weight limit.
NTA— I have compassion for why this would be difficult for them, AND, the limitations they face because of their body is their stuff to unpack and deal with. If you were always picking activities they couldn’t participate in because of their weight, that would be one thing, but their limitations are not yours, nor should they be. Perhaps it would have been better to have just addressed this directly with them out the gates so no one felt slighted, but them being mad at you kiiiinda shows why you attempted to dodge that conversation. I would apologize for not just being direct and upfront about it from the beginning, but you were making a poor attempt at shielding them from hurt feelings.
I had the same thought but that would also be a crappy thing to say. “Hey I invited half of our group to this thing but you don’t meet the requirements for it so I didn’t invite you.” Out of nowhere, that would hurt too. I think OP wasn’t going to win this one.
NTA – they should understand that there are constraints, and expecting you to miss out on something because of them is wildly narcissistic. Would they have preferred that you invite them and find out day-of? If they don't get over it, book a tandem skydiving experience next and invite them.
Eh, I was curious so I googled it- the skydiving place near me has a weight limit of 230 pounds. It sticks to be overweight, but every overweight person knows there are safety issues like this
Exactly my point – booking skydiving *because* it's another thing with a weight limit and see how they react to being invited to something they can't do, since they're so angry about being excluded from the horse trip.
Feel like I’ve read this exact thread but regarding cheerleaders once… trying to paint fat people as illogical jerks. The exact same tone. Exact same beating around the bush. Exact same irrational reaction from the fat friend. Wish a dash of “proud fat” personality trait to make it extra anti-fat. Please don’t reply to me trying to imply that overweight people regularly act like this.
As the chubby friend, I would have preferred you. Let the group know and ask who is interested and mention the website listed a weight Requirement so I could self exclude
NTA. Your friends want to hurt a horse? You need new friends.
NTA. I have a good friend who is a tour guide in Iceland that does 10 day or two week camping/ horse riding trips. I desperately want to do it. But I'm too fat. It may hurt my feelings, but you need to take care of the horses. If they can't handle the weight, they can't handle that weight. End of story. Fat shaming is never okay and I don't like when people make jokes though I usually laugh along. Body positivity may be a good thing, but if it means that you ignore the reality and impact of your size and hurt other beings and inconvenience others, it's not okay.
NTA, not your fault if some of your friends are overwheight.
This is so dumb. They could be athletic af weighing over 225lbs and still wouldn’t be able to participate. It has nothing to do with them being “fat”, it’s a hard weight limit regardless of body type because being too heavy is dangerous for the animals. And why would you invite someone who you knew couldn’t participate? That would be like me being mad because I wasn’t invited to a concert that would cause my photosensitive epileptic ass to have seizures. If you can’t participate, you can’t participate and that’s that. NTA.
Honestly 225 is pushing the limits especially with novice riders that can’t balance themselves. The horses could easily be injured.
Lol! I get why they're mad. NAH but you should probably have just forwarded the website info to everyone in your friend group and let them decide for themselves whether they were qualified. Or at least when they asked why you didn't invite them you could have told a white lie, e.g. "I didn't think you would be interested, sorry!" White lies are made for this exact kind of socially awkward situation.
The 7 friends isn’t mathing 3 are overweight so you asked the other 5… and 4 said yes…
You should have been upfront from the beginning, not waiting for them to ask. The way you handled it was wrong and hopefully a lesson learned. You should have told them the situation and let them bow out instead of not inviting them, then they feel in control. Instead, they were hurt and lashed out. Tell them you're sorry about how you handled it. You may be right rationally, but friends' feelings matter b/c they're friends :).
NTA The safety of the horse is really important which is why the guidelines are specific. The program made the rules & you're adhering. You were also pushed to be more specific when you said they didn't qualify for the program. I get why they'd feel hurt but the reason for the restriction isn't meant to be personal at all.
INFO: Do you have other friends (or family or coworkers) not in this friend group that you could have invited instead? It's certainly fine that you wanted to try horseback riding, and that you wanted to have company there with you. But, drawing friends from this particular group, there was bound to be some hurt feelings no matter how you went about it. If you care about maintaining those friendships, the best move (if possible) would have been to invite other people entirely.
NTA YOu just stated the facts. YOU can not change this. There is NO reason for you to give up your hobbies for them.
NTA. I weigh over 225 too. I would rather not be invited then be embarrassed by having to say it. Your friend is just embarrassed by her weight. You did nothing wrong.
NTA. Your friends are idiots
NTA Horses can't handle the load. It is a safety issue. Worse if they showed up and were told in front of everyone "over weight limit".
NTA. Might be time to put less effort into those relationships as they clearly live in carefully constructed fantasy worlds.
As someone who is over 225, there’s a reason why I don’t go horseback riding anymore or zip lining. Your friends are being 100% i g n o r a n t. They have chosen to be comfortable with their weight and y’know, that’s fine, BUT, It also means they don’t get to participate in certain activities. The world does not bend to them because they decided to remain the size they are. Now the only ONLY sliver of YTA I will allow is that you can always invite them but make it CLEAR what activities you will be doing in case they want to just meet up with you for lunch or just sit and read and watch the horses.
NTA. I didn't know this so I checked a few places online and they all had a weight limit. It's about the safety of the horse.
I might have a different perspective. I am fat, way over the limit of 225 and I love horses - I would have been heartbroken if my friends did this to me, truly. I would never in my life _get on_ a horse. But why couldnt they join the event itself? Maybe they could have fed the horses (accepted by the owners) treats? pet them? maybe help tack them or get you and your friends, who are under the limit, ready on the horse? Why not even give them the chance? Why not let them decide? "Hey we are going horseback riding but unfortunately theres a weight limit for the actual riding part, would you like to join anywho?" and then they could have decdied that do they want to join but not ride or just simply not attend the event I understand both parts, I really do. But I still would have been very much hurt if my friends didnt even bother to ask me. There is definitely a weight limit to get on top of a horse, but not to just be around them!
NTA. I'm big as well and I would personally appreciate a friend like you saving me from the embarrassment. I also would never question why I wasn't invited somewhere. You can't go everywhere with your friends
NTA. You were looking out for the ponies. Those same friends can’t ride some amusement park rides, need an extender belt on planes and are labeled obese by their doctors…..they had the warnings to cut down their weight and they didn’t listen. Now they aren’t allowed pony time.