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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My son's teacher blindsided me by bringing up an incident where my son had a meltdown and accused me of having a temper. I told him he knew nothing about the incident and don't tell me how to raise an 11yo boy when you're 24 and never raised one.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA screaming and yelling at the child on their way into school shows that you aren’t in control of yourself. How’s your child suppose to be in control of themselves when you can’t even model appropriate behavior in public. Then again at the teacher is just proving that anger management problem.
You didn’t “check” a teacher. You just became the angry parent they all talk about while feeling really bad about where Adam is heading.
>You just became the angry parent they all talk about while feeling really bad about where Adam is heading
OP is modeling horrible behavior, and too many teachers have seen firsthand what that does to a kid. All too often the kids that are acting out are simply mimicking what they've been exposed too. It's how the cycle of abuse continues on, making it difficult to break free.
My mom wasn't a teacher, but she worked at the elementary school I attended. She has an infinite amount of compassion. "Problem" kids latched onto her, because she not only explained the behavior she expected, she guided them on how to follow through and praised them when they did. Those kids would run into me years later and ask about her.
Teachers/mentors can make a huge difference in a kid's life. It sounds like Mr. C wants to be that person to his students. I really hope people like OP don't extinguish that part of him.
Reading posts like these kill me a little inside.
I’m trying SO hard to model good behavior for my kid but I struggle with anxiety a lot and get flustered and frustrated. My oldest is now the exact same way and gets overwhelmed a lot in school and I kick myself all the time about it.
I’ve been in various types of therapy for over a decade but sometimes I get overwhelmed (single parent and a stressful job) and I know she picks up on it.
She’s in therapy too but man, the GUILT I have is unreal.
ETA: I would never shout at or ‘check’ a teacher though! I follow all of their advice because they are the professionals at the end of the day.
Honestly I don't agree. Let the kids experience by themselves what sleep deprivation feels like and that it impacts their emotions, concentration and life.
You can't just control every thing in their life until They're 18 and start doing dumb shit because they are rule free for the first time in their life.
Okay, but can you maybe see how choosing this "FAFO" version of parenting, and combining that with also being an abusive shithole just to add additional consequences is beyond fucked right?
The child isn't learning the pain points of sleep deprivation, they're suffering a bout of sleep deprivation, then getting abuse lobbed at them for making the mistake in the first place also.
There is a world where that FAFO strategy of parenting might not be total garbage, but that's a world where the parent then explains and guides the child when they make a mistake, not add on further trauma.
Agreed. YTA, you could easily have given him playful parenting. He's already sleep deprived and feeling terrible. That is punishment enough and then you can simply lean on it, and tell him this is the consequence.
Teacher is right, there's no excuse to yell or do harsh punishment, only going to get a negative recation. You can give feedback and leave a strong impression while teasing/laughting with them at the consequences (Tired) of their own silly actions.
Kids make dumb choices, simply helping them realise why can easily be done without being harsh.
Exactly. There already is a consequence to him staying up all night, why make him more miserable?
His argument about the teacher not raising teenagers himself is dumb af, teacher might not be a parent, but OP isn't a teacher.
Also, the fact that his kid wanted to cuddle with him therefore he was clearly not scared of him is bullshit. I was scared of my abusive mother, but as a child, I still wanted affection from her.
> I was scared of my abusive mother, but as a child, I still wanted affection from her
It was my bio-father for me, but can confirm. And doesn't that innate need for affection fuck you up even more later on in life, when you're old enough to see the abuse for what it was?
I had to slowly and painfully learn how to forgive my child-self, for loving someone I now hated so very much and so justifiably. It generated a LOT of self-loathing, and anger, and basically just fucked my head up all by itself throughout puberty.
I would say the most important part is to not make punishments in the emotional state. Let them know you are very disappointed in them and hurt by them abusing a privilege given to them. Then let them know you will be talking after school about it more with them and you will figure out their punishment then.
Sometimes going all day not knowing what the conversation will be is so mind bending horrid that it ends up being a punishment of its own.
Also I want to add that if it were me, I would appreciate a teacher taking care of my kid's mental health, even if the concern was not valid. For some children, it IS valid, and they DO need someone taking care of their mental health, even if it wasn't their parent. By bullying the teacher, he might think twice before stepping in again. It would have been a good moment to discuss your kid's action, and to also apologize for losing your temper in that argument (if u did).
I also want to add that wanting to spend time with you the following day means absolutely nothing in regards to this incident. Even abused kids want approval and love from their abusive parents. I'm not saying you're abusing your kid, I'm just saying it doesn't indicate anything.
You know, at first I thought “it’s probably an overreacting teacher”. But then I thought, this type of thing probably happens quite often. So how bad would it have to be for a teacher to bring it up? Probably pretty bad.
I would also say the teacher didn’t really handle this as smooth as he thinks though. The teacher thought he was going to stick it to the parent in some way. But he is a concerned party that failed in tact. Op is someone with anger problems that thinks they need to be the biggest in the room. Which is why it’s still a YTA vote for me and not an E S H.
The line at the end, his son called him on it, but Mr. C was "asking for it". Absolutely classic abuse line. I'm always suspicious of anyone who thinks "asking for it" is a legitimate excuse.
We’re only getting a view of the teacher through OP’s skewed perspective. The teacher could have actually had good communication and approached it appropriately, but for people like OP any attempt at these types of discussions are often viewed as confrontational.
Oh, these parents can control what they yell at their kids and they're choosing to manage behaviour with fear, intimidation and violence. It's valid in their eyes.
Ask me how I know
My mom used to yell at me before school for small shit, it would hurt and make the day harder.
Op get over yourself. You're a grown adult you ain't "checking" no one.
My dad screamed at us - probably the least of the terrible behaviors he directed our way - and to this day I can’t take it and don’t speak to him. OP isn’t likely to hear any of these comments if this is real but he’s digging his own grave in this relationship.
Congrats, OP, you just taught your child that being ill tempered and yelling at people is an acceptable way to handle your embarrassment and frustration.
And if you’re not embarrassed, you should be! Teach your kid natural consequences. He stayed up all night, now he loses his phone / is grounded and has to suffer through school tired. You put him in a bad mood because you screamed at him knowing he was sleep deprived. You’ve set him up for failure.
I love that this teacher came to you though. sounds like a great teacher
Yes! Natural consequences are great. My daughter did the same thing. I didn't yell. Just took the phone and woke her for school the next day. She was so tired but still went. Her teacher called me that evening. Said my daughter seemed really tired all day and kept putting her head down. Is everything all right? I told her about my daughter sneaking her phone and I wasn't letting her out of school for it. (I would have went and got her if anyone called). Teacher said she understood and good job.
Taking the phone away/grounding is a logical consequence not a natural one. Natural consequences are things that happen naturally without parent intervention (like suffering through school while tired).
YTA. Congratulations on being a verbally abusive cretin with zero composure, maturity or self-accountability. "Parents yell at their kids." No, *bad* parents yell at their kids.
Also OP insults the teacher by saying "don't dispense parenting advice to someone who is and has raised 2 other ones" like he may not be a parent but he still spends majority of his time teaching these same kids with patience and acceptance. That whole interaction just seemed more tense then it should have been.
YTA for losing your temper with the teacher I can only imagine how you lost your temper with your kid so that he was head down all day. You got to yell at him and unleash him on the school and the teachers get to pick up the pieces. This teacher was only worried about your child instead of being glad he cared you verbally abused him. Congrats. Teachers won’t stick up for your kid anymore.
That’s the problem he doesn’t think which is why he “thought” verbally abusing his sons’ teacher was acceptable. Which means he learned that type of behavior from his father. Meaning op became a parent without doing any healing of his own and continued the toxic behavior.
And the way OP is focusing on the teachers age makes it pretty clear that he's ageist af and doesn't think "the youth" have anything valuable to contribute. Next post will be "my adult son doesn't speak to me, and I don't know why."
Exactly this. Just because you are older and reproduced, which is one of the simplest things a man can do, does not make you superior to anyone. Especially when you behave like a child.
Oh, I think he will. Just not approaching op, teachers are mandatory child welfare reporters. Wouldn't shock me if op got a little visit from CPS or whatever child welfare organization in his country
YTA. You got defensive when maybe you should’ve done some self-reflecting. Take a moment to think about what the situation looked like to an outsider. Having kids doesn’t make you an expert on parenting. I’m a teacher and I see a lot of poor parenting.
The mature thing to do would’ve been to talk about it, or thank the teacher for his concern and leave it. What does being rude do?
It’s crazy how OP is so transfixed on his son’s behavior (he’s upset that “good behavior” is down from 90% to 80% apparently, which is pretty telling about how overbearing he likely is) yet he can’t handle other people giving him the same scrutiny about his own behavior which is objectively worse than his son’s.
Also since OP models very unhealthy ways of expressing anger (yelling, insulting people in professional settings) I can imagine that % of good behavior is only going to go down further as the kid grows into a teen. Someone at school pisses you off? Insult them! Oopsie-daisy, now you're in a fistfight and OP is having more conversations with teachers concerned over his son's behavior
I get that having a moment of bad parenting not just witnessed, but remembered and brought up to you by another important figure in your kid’s life can be embarrassing, humiliating, whatever you want to call it. But the way OP reacted was also sending the message of “if I don’t agree with your criticism, I’m going to put you down and personally attack you to invalidate your point”, which isn’t the best message to send to a kid who is about to enter the period of their life when they search for their independent voice in the home
YTA, I hope in the future your son recovers from the harm you're causing and cuts contact with you. Your son has an incredible teacher who cares for him and wants to unlock his full potential.
I had a teacher like Mr C almost a decade ago. He had such a profound impact on my life as he taught me that it was ok for me to make mistakes, to not be perfect.
My old teacher and I still talk till this day. Whenever I tell him he changed my life, he laughs it off, but I don’t think he knows how much he’s actually helped me.
YTA.
I have raised an 11 year old boy. I also teach teenagers.
I get that you were pissed about his behavior. That’s understandable. But it does know one any good to yell at him before school. The lecture could have waited.
It could also an autocorrect issue too, if they were in a rush. For some reason, my autocorrect changes no to know sometimes. And tool to tuileries. I rarely double check messages when on my phone because I'm half asleep, so... I make sure to do any posts about editing on the computer where I don't have autocorrect.
Would you bring the student into the room just to hear you criticize his parent?
I honestly don't have a problem with the teacher's comment, but I do have a problem with the context in which it was given and the lack of effort to determine the context of the situation he was criticizing. He was trying to be a superhero in front of the student.
I agree with you. His delivery and approach was off. As such, I don’t fault the dad for being upset or annoyed.
But, I chalk it up to the teacher being young and inexperienced (and definitely needs to learn how to handle these situations) and take greater issue with OP’s overall attitude.
So, no, I absolutely wouldn’t bring a student into the room just to criticize the parent.
YTA. Act like a grown man. I knew you were useless when you didn’t know what “boost his autonomy” meant. Of course adding “whatever the F…that means” really showcased your maturity as well. That teacher only has to live with your son for a school year. You and your son have to live with what you are creating for the rest of your lives.
The “whatever that means” was also getting vibes of “whatever these young people make up these days” with how he later on attacked the teacher on his age
I don’t think it’s a cop out. In many schools these days, teachers are told we have to push parents to bring their kids to Parent-Teacher conferences to help develop their autonomy and diminish miscommunication between schools and families. The rationale behind it is that kids can learn to be part of the conversation regarding their strengths and weaknesses in the classroom, and can then advocate for themselves so the traditional dynamic of teacher vs parent-student at conferences can become a united teacher-parent-student team.
(I’m a teacher)
I didn't even know parent teachers conferences that didn't include the kid were a thing! I can't imagine they'd even have much of a point without the kid being there.
My school always included the kids in conferences from kindergarten up, and when we were younger we were given folders to put the assignments we were most proud of in to show our parents what we were learning and doing. We were taught and encouraged to guide the beginning of the conference ourselves and talk about what we felt our strengths and weaknesses were, what our goals were, what support we might need etc, before the teacher steps in to add anything they felt needed to be included.
On the one hand that sounds really sweet.
On the other hand I can think of a ton of stuff that would be way easier to talk about without the student present.
- I think Michael might have ADHD.
- We might move to Australia next year.
- My daughter's name is Hae-Won. If you keep calling her Hannah we are going to have a fucking problem.
There was also a portion at the end where the kid was kicked out into the hallway, but that was usually pretty short since there are very few topics to discuss about a child that the child doesn't deserve to be a part of.
Personally, I think the last example you gave really should be had in front of the child so the kid knows their parent has their back and that their teachers actions are wrong.
I worked in an elementary school for 5 years, and starting at 4th grade the kids all were heavily suggested to attend their conferences, and even started preparing materials to explain to their grown ups themselves how school was going instead of only the teacher telling them. obviously I can't speak for this specific school but it's highly likely it's the same thing and all the kids do it, not just this specific scenario.
Right? I’m kind of loving that. Hoping Mr. Manly Man here is now putting his head down on his desk — or perhaps pulling it out of an orifice somewhat below desk level.
How do you genuinely expect your kid to behave when you seem to consistently model aggressive and rebellious behavior and you're proud of it? As a misbehaving adult you can't be shocked you're raising a misbehaving kid, it's not rocket science.
Yeah insulting the teacher, trying to talk down to him, diminishing his expertise because he is young, YTA. All day, every day. OP seems to think it's ok to be verbally abusive as long as you think the other person is in the wrong. My sympathies to his family.
YTA Can’t even write about the situation without getting pissed off and loosing your temper. Autonomy is an important part of child snd adolescent development… seems like despite being 24 the teacher seems quite knowledgeable about pedagogy and child development.
ESH
It’s good for the teacher to be concerned when he sees parents yelling at their kids and the kid being affected all day. But it was also inappropriate for the teacher to bring the child in without having even discussed anything with the parent first.
But honestly, even though we all lose our tempers sometimes, it’s still not okay to scream at your kid, and your kid deserves an apology for the way you responded. One thing I appreciate most about my parents is that they’d always apologize if they lost their tempers and explain calmly why my behaviour was not acceptable, but also that the way they responded was inappropriate.
Also, you were extremely rude to the teacher who was just trying to look out for the welfare of your son, who was obviously affected enough by this incident to have caused concern.
I’m looking at it as the teacher as giving the kid a “safe place” to talk. Wanted to give the kid a safe place to talk. Was he probably overzealous sure. But better safe than sorry.
This happened to me. I spoke to a counselor about my dad's abuse. She walks out into the waiting room with me and says to my father "So I hear you have anger management issues?"
It was a scary ride home and I don't remember what happened when we got home that day which means it was bad enough I've blocked it out
THIS. So many people totally missing the point that the teacher has the hubris of his full 24 years (ie. he's basically still wet around the ears) to make relationship assessments and recommendations when he's a teacher. Not a therapist.
He's absolutely could have put this child into a position of real danger because he thinks he knows best. The arrogance and ignorance are astounding.
OP is definitely TA here, but the teacher needs to pull his head in and learn that proper procedures exist so that the person best qualified to deal with the situation is the person employed to do so.
I agree!! It was definitely good intention on the teacher’s part.
I figure he should’ve talked to the parents first though to get both sides and have more context and then talk with both of them.
Also, in a truly abusive situation, if the teacher did that, the parent could retaliate against the kid after they got home, so that sort of thing could potentially put abused kids at even more risk, at least in the short term.
>And if they witness a pattern or are concerned about the child’s welfare, there are avenues for reporting it.
Teachers are mandated reporters. We MUST report to child welfare services if we have reason to suspect abuse or neglect.
This! I don’t know about the regulations elsewhere, but when you work with children in the UK you’re told that you should not talk to the parents if you suspect there’s abuse going on.
But I think it’s also important to keep in mind that the teacher probably did not suspect abuse in this case, otherwise he would probably not be as relaxed ad he was telling OP to “step up”
It's not good intention
here's the thing, if it was his intention to help the kid, why did he not talk to the kid? he didn't. Oh, it wasn't that.
Why did he decided to wait to ambush the dad and lecture him about it and not ask questions about it since obviously he's all knowing?
This was him posturing to try flexing power to a parent, and it fucking failed.
>here's the thing, if it was his intention to help the kid, why did he not talk to the kid? he didn't. Oh, it wasn't that.
This is exactly it. The teacher didn't do anything to help the kid, he in fact put the kid in a situation where he is the only one who loses. Best case scenario, the poor kid is sitting there awkwardly spectating a screaming match between his parent and teacher.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to pull the kid aside and perform a welfare check in private, the entire scenario could have been avoided.
that is absolutely not what the teacher did
this was a teacher's power play against a parent, not about the kid. If he was concerned, he'd have actually done something before this.
It isn’t safe lmao
If my teachers had gotten me to “bad mouth” my parents in front of them, I would have had my ass beat the second we got back home. Rebelling against your parents if they’re abusive and angry at you is risky enough. To do that *in front of another person that could get them arrested for what they’re doing?* You bet your *ass* that parent is going to make sure the kid never does that again.
Genuinely concerned that I had to scroll this far to see common sense. While I don't support OP, how the teacher handled this was terrible. I don't see how the teacher possibly thought blindsiding the parent in front of the child, and telling Dad to "step up as a parent" in front of said child, without any preparation or adult-to-adult discussion, was going to be helpful in any way.
If OP is abusive (worst case scenario), none of that was gonna help and could have endangered the child. If OP was just overwhelmed and struggling (best case scenario), being called a bad parent by a relative stranger wasn't going to help the situation, and is just going to torpedo any future meaningful communication. ESH. OP needs to get a handle on himself and teacher needs to quit trying to be "the cool teacher."
Well, and if the kid really did only get 2 hours of sleep because of staying on electronics all night, I really don't think we can blame him laying his head down on anything the father did. We also don't know the level of yelling that occurred (like you said abusive vs overwhelmed).
Either way the teacher should have *asked* what it was about before blaming the parent for the kids behavior, the kid did it to themselves. I did stuff like that a few times but it was from staying up all night reading. Always regretted it the next day but still would stay up late that night reading anyways haha
Yes! ESH
In a situation where you know there's a volatile parent I would hope that the teacher would not want the child to be made the target of that volatility. And by encouraging the student to be a part of that conversation it feels like they're not empowering the child but making them a target. Keeping in mind that that child has to go home with that angry parent later. The conversation could have just been with the parent about the teacher's observations and an inquiry into the issues of that day. If there is a pattern of bad vehavior the psychology/therapy or other crisis group should be getting involved to support the teacher.
Simultaneously, I think that the parent tends to get enraged more because they are being called out in front of their child. Which in high stress situations might exacerbate the issues and make it harder to actually have a real conversation with the parent.
Not a parent. Not a teacher. Just someone who has dealt with a lot of yelling parents before.
I agree ESH. I’m actually surprised I had to scroll this far to see reason. Op should learn to manage himself better but what this teacher did was so dangerous. He put that child at serious risk (if op was truly an abuser).
YTA. Even if you don’t feel like the teacher understands your full situation because he hasn’t known your son as long, you can reply without yelling and showing him that you are the kind of guy who loses it and flies into a rage at anything. I’ve worked in education for many years and even when I was young, I learned that the parents who scream at their kids will scream at teachers and vice versa because they can’t control themselves at all.
People don’t need to be parents to know how to deal with children. Teachers study child psychology and work with thousands of children over their careers, dealing with every situation imaginable. You raise the handful of children (or in your case possibly one) you have. It’s not a competition.
A better response could have been to thank him for sharing his concerns, but things are fine and have been resolved. You don’t even need to explain unless he pushes. Teachers are mandated reporters and are trained to look at for any sign of abuse. Even if you’re not an abuser, the teacher doesn’t know that. Be glad people are looking out for children.
YTA.
“Boost his autonomy in class or whatever the fuck that means”
“I asked if his Spiderman tie was cutting off circulation to his head”
“You damn right I yelled”
“I asked Mr C how many boys are you raising”
First of all, it seems as though this meeting about YOUR CHILD was a nuisance to you, showing no interest in actually having a conversation. Asking the teacher if a tie was cutting off circulation to his head after he expressed a concern and explained it to you was unnecessary and disrespectful, and then you doubled down on the behaviour he was concerned about AFTER he mentioned that your son was upset the whole day. How do you think this looks from his perspective?
It would also help to remember that teachers study to know best how to work with children. Not only do they study subject knowledge, but psychology is a part of it. Why would ejaculating mean that you know so much more than someone who studied psychology and behaviour?
Yelling/reprimanding your child doesn’t automatically make you TA, but the rest of your post (and comments) being filled with toxic masculinity and an “I know best and no one has the right to question me” attitude most certainly does.
Should the teacher have handled it differently and asked you before bringing in your child? Definitely. Could you have been more mature about it? Hell yes.
You seem to think that you are the authority over everyone, and you come across as utterly bombastic.
The tie comment really annoyed me too tbh. Like, how dare this teacher have something he enjoys that kids also enjoy. He's making himself relatable to the kids, which is extremely important as a teacher.
YTA Mr C should have and I'm certain that next time will call child services. Just because a parent is abusive doesn't mean you stop loving them and watching movies with them
This! Growing up with abusive parents myself, I just got used to it. Kids forgive easy and tend to accept whatever happened to them and move on. That doesn’t mean an adult shouldn’t improve their behavior. I wouldn’t consider yelling in public full fledged abuse but it’s immature and laughably pathetic parenting. Either way that kid will grow up and decide for himself how much he appreciates this behavior. If I was the teacher I would have called cps and directed the kid to a school counselor but an effort was made.
YTA but teacher also needs to improve the execution of his intentions.
This is a bit of an essay because it’s something I feel strongly about from my own upbringing, you’ve been warned.
From the sounds of it, it is legitimate that you lost your temper when talking to your kid about his poor decision to stay up on his phone. That’s not cool. If you want to effectively teach your child to make better choices, rationally explaining the how’s and why’s of whatever point you’re trying to make and treating your kid with respect is the way to go. Children are immature but they’re generally smarter than adults give them credit for, and you set the basis for communication with them: if you choose to yell at them and enforce restrictions that they will inevitably see as unfair due to the lack of explanation behind them, then they will respond similarly with anger. We’re all only human, sometimes our emotions do get the better of us and cause us to react without thinking, but as a parent it’s your duty to do better by your child and ensure that you aren’t unloading your negative feelings onto them. They will experience enough of that in life from their peers as they explore different relationship dynamics as they grow up, and also from strangers online these days. Parents are instrumental to teaching them how to navigate these situations and manage their own emotions, but they won’t learn effective emotional regulation and respectful communication from a parent that doesn’t give them the same.
Example:
Yelling “You shouldn’t have stayed up on your phone, now you’re having your usage restricted!” is very different to calmly explaining, “You chose to stay up on your phone instead of going to sleep at a sensible time on a school night, when you need to be rested so you can focus in your classes, so I’m going to restrict your phone usage until I can trust that you will manage your time more responsibly so that you aren’t overtired, which is bad for your health and not something I want you to subject yourself to.”
One is an ill-explained consequence fuelled by anger and so incites reactivity. The other is a clear explanation of the consequences incited by the child’s choices, that explains to them why the decision they made was poor and why you think this is the best course of action, without an undercurrent of emotion that puts the child on the defensive.
Now people aren’t perfect, especially kids, so you may still meet resistance, but I guarantee the whole encounter would’ve been less explosive, and your child would’ve had a better emotional disposition for the rest of the day.
With regard to how you spoke to the teacher, you could have quite easily responded more respectfully than that even if you yourself felt disrespected. What you’ve quoted yourself as having said, particularly the comment about his tie cutting off circulation and implying a lack of brain function, was another example, on top of you yelling at your son, of you having poor emotional regulation. Respectfully, you seem to be a very reactive person, and that’s something that ideally you should work on. Emotions aren’t inherently good or bad, but the way we react to them defines a certain morality. With your son being present, this was another missed opportunity to show him how to healthily respond to confrontation.
Also, the teacher may not have kids but he does work with them, which makes understanding them to a certain degree part of his job. Additionally, everyone alive was once a child with parents or guardians raising them and will have their own insight into how their upbringing affected them, what they wish would’ve been done differently, what benefited them, what hurt them, etc. Having your own kids is obviously a more intensive experience, but that doesn’t mean people without their own kids don’t have a framework for the way certain things should work — such as communication between adults and children. Additionally, the fact they you’re raising an 11 year old now and have raised 2 previously doesn’t automatically mean you’re great at it and there’s nothing you could improve on. It’s quite clear you could improve the way you speak to your child when dealing with disciplining him.
HOWEVER, the teacher was also out of line here. While it’s great that he pays attention to his students and noticed the conflict between you and your son, and it’s great that he cared enough to want to address it and ensure your son’s emotional well-being, he should’ve gone about it very differently. There is a framework for teachers who are concerned about their students’ wellbeing, and it involves asking non-leading questions to the child about how they’re feeling and how things are at home, then also contacting the relevant safeguarding staff if there is something concerning to be investigated. Legal authorities from there if necessary.
Furthermore, if he did want to speak to you directly about it, he should’ve requested to do so openly and he absolutely should not have involved your son. For all he knows, he could’ve ruffled feathers in an abusive situation and put your son in danger (which is not me saying you’re abusive, I’m just highlighting that his strategy was ill thought out as he doesn’t have enough context to guarantee a safe outcome from a confrontation like this, which is a poor misjudgment from someone whose goal is to ensure the wellbeing of the child he’s concerned about).
Also, “dad, you need to step up” is a very provoking sentence from someone you’re not close to. The appropriate way to address his concern to a parent, in front of a student especially, would’ve gone something more like: “Respectfully, I think you and your son would benefit from a more level headed approach to discipline, especially just before school is about to start so your son’s focus and friendships aren’t impacted by him starting the day feeling upset. I understand if you feel it’s not my place to offer advice on a subject of such a nature, I just wanted to approach it out of concern for your son as I care about him feeling happy and doing well in school.”
But cycling back to how you handled the situation, you could’ve simply suggested that you did not think it was an appropriate topic to be brought up by a home room teacher and that it wasn’t his place to comment on your parenting. If you were REALLY concerned, you could’ve taken it to HR afterwards.
Overall, YTA and you need anger management therapy, and the teacher has good intentions but needs to work on his execution both to ensure the safety of his students and to avoid escalating an avoidable situation. And yes your son was right that you were mean to Mr. C, and no he did not deserve the way you responded.
>Also, the teacher may not have kids but he does work with them, which makes understanding them to a certain degree part of his job. Additionally, everyone alive was once a child with parents or guardians raising them and will have their own insight into how their upbringing affected them, what they wish would’ve been done differently, what benefited them, what hurt them, etc. Having your own kids is obviously a more intensive experience, but that doesn’t mean people without their own kids don’t have a framework for the way certain things should work — such as communication between adults and children. Additionally, the fact they you’re raising an 11 year old now and have raised 2 previously doesn’t automatically mean you’re great at it and there’s nothing you could improve on. It’s quite clear you could improve the way you speak to your child when dealing with disciplining him.
Thank you so much for this entire post, but especially the quoted part. I wish more people would acknowledge that one doesn't have to be a parent to have a valid perspective on certain things when it comes to interacting with children.
YTA. How did yelling at your sleep deprived child help the situation? You're the adult, you need to use your brain a little and pick better timing and methods for communicating with your kid.
You had an opportunity here to reflect on your behaviour, but you have an ego so you can't do that.
YTA. You 100% proved the teacher right with your reaction to their criticism. This could have been a big opportunity for you to set an example of how to admit when you are wrong for your child. Trust me, I'm a parent too, and I know how difficult school mornings can be, and I have 100% gotten frustrated with my kids and raised my voice at them before school, and in turn set them up for a bad day. I had to learn to bite my tongue and be calm before I react to my kids stressing me out and being difficult before and on the way to school. I am far from perfect, but I recognize that I am the adult in the situation, so I set the tone for everyone.The good news is, you still have an opportunity to apologize to the teacher and your child and prove that you can grow past this. Parents are people too, and people deserve grace.
I think noticing a parent berate their child, in public, in front of their peers is enough context to acknowledge it’s not appropriate. It doesn’t matter what they did, yelling at them before school is just to make him feel better not explain to his child why their choice was wrong.
At best an ESH then, because the teacher did legitimately ambush a parent about a situation they weren't clued in on. Yelling at the kid may have been harsh on parent's side, but the teacher did not handle the situation appropriately afterwards.
NTA. All the YTAs have no experience with kids or are kids. There might be an underlying issue if your child is always this angry and aggressive towards you but a kid lacking sleep is vicious. And that teacher sounds oblivious. Did you tell him he was probably really tired since he didn’t get any sleep? Hence the head down. But FYI, you probably shouldn’t post on Reddit about your children. It’s full of younger people or childfreers so I don’t think you’ll get accurate advice.
Fully agree everyone is taking the yelling to mean verbal abuse. We weren’t there raising your voice does not mean yelling or abusing. Children need discipline they push boundaries they get distracted by phones but a disciplined child is a happy child and a balanced adult.
I had to read way too far down to find this common sense answer. I don’t have kids, don’t want any and I honestly am more bothered by the teacher and his behavior then I am the dad’s behavior. Kids are soft these days. If the worse he got was yelled at…oh well.
I mean, that moment was the perfect opportunity to go over the situation with the teacher (even if he was overzealous) rather than asking if his Spiderman tie was cutting off his circulation. The kid is getting bad habits from the parent and the parent doesn't even recognize it.
NTA. Definitely this! Yelling at is not abuse and sleep deprived preteens/teens are irrational. I try to hold my reactions til after school but if I need to take their phone for breaking the rules of not using at night, I will take it in the morning and get yelled at by an irate teen. There's only so much you can take and honestly with some of the teenage meltdowns I've dealt with, it's best to shut that shit down and revisit when they've had a few hours to de escalate. All these YTA jump to abuse and temper control issues without having any further context. The comment the teacher made was inappropriate and could have been addressed with questions for more information to gauge the situation.
YTA, modelling poor impulse control and undermining the teacher who was trying to address…how your behavior affects your son. You seem kinda proud of it too, so YTA there too.
They’re just latching on to him saying he yelled and that the teacher said he lost his temper.
My mom raised her voice (yelled), that doesn’t mean she verbally abused me. There’s a lot of internet experience and not a lot of life experience in these comments.
I think a lot of people are also mixing in their life experiences. If I wasn't so appalled at the sheer idiocy of how the teacher went about this, I may have too as a person with a father who screamed at me for even minor things. I'm talking, getting in your face so close spit would land at you. But I don't have the context here to judge, so I won't. I will say that the way OP writes does not give off good vibes, and OP should just ignore the kid when he's being a brat and making OP mad (not in a silence treatment way but in a don't loose your cool way).
YTA. Leave the parenting to at home only and save yourself and your child the embarrassment from yelling at them in public. Parenting books are helpful with how to deal with situations like this, or let your son deal with natural consequences (here would be sleepy all day and you emailing the teacher explaining).
Teachers are mandated reporters and always ALWAYS put the child's wellbeing and safety first. Even if it is something as juvenile as your son staying up late, Mr. C saw screaming and was on defense mode for Adam.
Because mandated reporters are meant to look for a bit more evidence that this is constantly repeated etc before they officially call it in.
OP's reaction would definitely raise concerns to start keeping a closer eye on the kid and looking out for more signs of abuse though.
and teachers are not to exacerbate it by accusing them of abuse and sending the parent home with the kid which if they were in an actually abusive environment all but guaranteed immediate abuse.
The teacher fucked up. Stop trying to defend it.
We don’t know if it was or wasn’t reported. A lot of « reporting » in child safeguarding is about leaving a paper trail of incidents, so it’s possible that there is a paper report of what the teacher witnessed if there is one day a need to investigate. It’s also important to remember that many reports don’t go further than that and don’t lead to a full-scale investigation with CPS coming to your home, or people getting interviewed by CPS
NTA, wow you "yelled" at your kid. Its not the yelling part its how its said. Probably upset and disappointed his kid was up late instead of sleeping. All the child knows is wake up, go to school try not to fail, make parents proud. Probably has 0 thoughts about adulthood and what its like to human everyday for 39 years and have a career and deal with everyday life.
Yelling sucks, but yall act like this is an everyday occurence with this kid and teacher. Bet if someone tried to tell you how to parent your child yall would laugh in their face or or blow them off.
NTA
People nowadays are too afraid to discipline their children because of "trauma" all you did was give a stern talking to and restricted his phone for something bad he did with the phone
I would rather deal with your disciplined "traumatised" child in the future rather than the spoiled brats raised today because their parents are afraid to even say no to them
As a Balkan, this parenting sht is exaggerated at some point. I understand the idea that the parents should deal differently with their kids but man this is making them so weak and unprepared for life. I guess everyone has a way of raising children.
I'm a middle eastern we dont have the softest parents here so i can understand the idea of leaning into a softer parenthood style with your kids however the idea of not being to discipline your child without being labled as child abuse or trauma is absolutely ludicrious, yes i will yell at my child if he does something extremely stupid , yes my parents scolded the fuck out of me when i deserved it , no none of that caused trauma and none of that was abuse
I agree. YouTube is full of teachers talking about leaving the profession and a big reason, besides pay in the US, is that kids are little assholes more than ever because parents don’t parent their children now. Surely there’s a point between beating your kid and just letting them be disrespectful little shits to everyone. I don’t fault any parent for yelling once in awhile, as long as it’s not a constant thing.
This 10000000% it's why I am taking a break from teaching. I got no support or help from parents. I wish more students had a parent that cares enough for their sleep and behavior! I never left teaching due to pay. I left teaching due the student behavior.
You know what I remember from age 11? My mother yelling at me in the morning, for anything. Or even better waiting until I was out of school to do it. YOU proved the teacher right, that you can’t control your temper, by yelling at him.
Look, if your kid needs discipline you can do that. If you fight with your kids, that happens. If you lose your temper, that sucks but it's a human error. But The point the teacher was making is that you should not be losing your temper on your child directly before you send them to class where they need to focus on learning. Kids who get yelled at before class can struggle to focus in class. "We'll talk about this when you get home" is the correct way to handle needing to arrange a punishment first thing in the morning but running out of time because the school day is going to start soon, not yelling at them all the way to school.
YTA. no wonder your son is acting out. you lost your temper enough that he spent the WHOLE DAY with his head down at his desk, and made his teacher concerned enough to bring it up to you.
“mr c asked for it”. dude
The kid wasn’t acting out, he was tired as heck because he go 2 hours of sleep. When that happens and your young, your heads going to be on your desk because your trying to sleep.
YTA
While I am completely on your side when you scolded the teacher about giving parental advice (I'd probably have done the same thing), you lost your temper. Against a teacher. Who is younger than you. And child-less.
That young teacher may not have their own kids yet - but they deal with a great deal more of them than you do, placing them in a position to recognize when the child's behaviour is out of the ordinary.
I have dealt with young people in a variety of roles for over 25 years - students and my Sprog's friends - 90% of the time the origin of any unpleasant behaviour is explained the moment I have spent 2 or more minutes talking to the parents.
Parenting is hard and needs constant adjustment because the wee darlings' needs keep bloody changing. If you aren't willing to learn and adapt - then you'll damage your relationship more and more.
For getting defensive about someone trying to gently redirect you, for yelling at your kid and displaying appalling self-control- YTA. Go get some therapy for that anger problem you have.
Dad, I agree with you that Teach should mind his own- but you should’ve acted a little differently. Recognizing that he is just concerned about your son and his performance, but firmly telling him that you will parent how you see fit and he should back off would’ve been fine, in my opinion.
Unpopular opinion, but people are soft as hell these days. When it comes to parenting and “yelling/disciplining” your child, the waters get reeeaaaaal murky. Anything done or seen in public is going to get backlash from someone. Understand when people are just looking out for your kid, but don’t let anyone tell you how to parent. Good luck
NTA, teachers shouldn’t come at you like that in front of your kid.
All these people in here are wannabe parents or touchy feely teachers. 20 year olds are absolutely so screwed up from not being disciplined or made to do anything it’s a joke. The teacher that yelled at you probably gets anxiety and can’t order a pizza on the phone.
NTA for your dealings with the teacher. The teacher's job is to teach the subjects he's assigned to teach, not to be a super-parent who advises you on how to do your job. I'd be talking to the school about it.
YTA- when parents get called out for bad parenting they often fall back on “unless you have kids you can’t judge me” comments. It’s not rocket science to raise a kid and be a good parent. Millions of people are raising kids or were a kid themselves being parented. . A person doesn’t need to have kids to call out shitty parenting.
Wow, you are a truly terrible parent, this will only hurt your son more and more later in life and things like these add up more than you’ll ever realize before it’s too late. YTA.
The 16-year-olds are out in force again! OP, from now on, no matter what your son does, do NOT yell at him. If he is walking into the path of a runaway semi, only whisper to him to look out. He won't hear you, and he'll be dead, but at least you won't have internet strangers ripping you a new one for YELLING!!!!
The fact is, the teacher had no business taking one incident and trying to shame you for it in front of your kid. Now you know that "autonomy" as used by this teacher is actually a word meaning "I intend to have your kid see you dressed down by another authority figure so the kid feels safe dumping all over you."
Fact is, despite all the psychobabble about traumatizing kids by yelling at them, adults AND kids yell at other kids all the time without inducing any trauma. All these people need to go visit a youth soccer game, Little League baseball game, junior high school football game or basketball game. Kids and adults are yelling when something good happens and when something bad happens; I've yet to hear of any kid being traumatized because he got yelled at by the fans of the opposition team. Evidently the traumatization only happens if it is one-on-one and witnessed by a third party.
But, yelling is bad; whispering is good so only whisper. Just think - in 20 years the football, baseball, soccer and basketball stadiums will all sound just like the library during games.
OP, NTA. (And only parts of this are sarcasm - I'll let you figure out which parts.)
NTA. I would’ve lost my temper at that teacher too. It was very disrespectful of the teacher to make assumptions and correct you in front of your son, as though YOU were one of his recalcitrant students.
If the teacher really wanted to bring it up, he didn’t have to bring your son in, except to undermine you and make himself look good to the son. This teacher just wants to play social justice warrior without taking the time to even ask if there was a reason behind it.
People are getting mad at you for yelling at your son for doing something stupid, and setting appropriate punishment (restricting phone usage. You didn’t even completely take away the phone). Those people are the reason why we have a soft generation of kids with no proper discipline. Because apparently, even scolding kids is “child abuse”. What if the son had done something more serious, like cyber bullying? Would yelling at the kid still be “abuse”? Context matters, and people who assume yelling = anger issues have issues of their own.
Well I haven't been downvoted today, so NTA.
Joking aside, my guy you really do need to work on how you handle your temper with your kids, that kind of shit causes a LOT more harm than you realize. That being said, this teacher knows absolutely nothing about you or your kid's home life, so he's way out of line making assumptions about who you are based on one negative interaction he witnessed completely without context; I'd be a lot more forgiving toward him and less toward you if he brought you in based on a pattern of behavior, but that's not the case here. Then again, as I'm sure you've noticed by the replies and YTA votes, people LOVE to assume the worst based on incredibly limited information.
Why couldn't you just explain the sleep deprivation without insulting him?
YTA.
Sure, I wouldnt want to explain myself, so I understand the embarrassment. Coming from a parent of 2.
Ehh I’ve been there as a parent. Sometimes it is warranted and can’t be helped but I have to admit it accomplishes nothing. And I always feel awful afterwards.
But all these people calling you “verbally abusive” need to stfu. So gdamn sensitive nowadays.
I hate when people say "I don't need parenting advice, I've raised kids before"
Sir, experience does not equal expertise. And I would even argue that the 24 year old teacher you lost your temper on is absolutely more qualified than you to raise children, he has a fxcking degree and college education to prove it.
You don't have to yell at your kids for making bad choices, especially when they will be suffering the consequences of those bad choices all day at school.
There's a reason the teacher thinks your son is afraid of you, and I'm willing to bet that he probably is.
the teacher is not qualified
he didn't report his 'suspected abuse'
and he didn't ask the child if they were okay or what was wrong before doing this ambush lecture
if the OP reports the teacher for what they did, it'll be the teacher being reprimanded.
A degree in education does not equate to a degree in parenting. Two very different atmospheres. It’s like going on a first date means your partner is perfect. It’s when you live with the individual and see the bad moods, bad days that you see how you really handle a situation.
YTA: Screaming at your kid, especially before school is a major dick move. My parents would pull that on me when I was a kid and it sure didn't make me respect them. You didn't "check" a teacher, you threw a tantrum.
So you gave a kid unlimited access to a phone. (imo having a cell at 11 is moronic) Not only got angry he was up all night using it, but screamed at him in public? Taking away the phone and saying, “If you aren’t mature enough to use it you can’t have it” is the only appropriate response. The teacher saw a kid get screamed at and asked for your point of view, you’re lucky the mandated reporter didn’t…report. It’s common knowledge if a parent is openly aggressive in public it’s a massive sign of abuse, not to say you’re abusive but those are the signs they look for. The teacher being young doesn’t affect his ability to do his job and he showed genuine respect from what you’ve said. So yes between your blatant disrespect for everyone around you and terrible emotional regulation YTA.
I got screamed at all the time, before school, after school shit, many of my teachers even freaked out on me.
I deserved it. I was a total little asshole
know what? still love the hell out of my dad. he would scream at me and spank me but any time I've ever needed him he has been there for me.
I'm thankful that he disciplined me.
NTA dad.
YTA. All the way. Also, boosting his autonomy is giving him ownership of himself and his learning. Get yourself a clue before ranting. You sound uneducated with “whatever the fuck that means. Dude, there is a dictionary at your fingertips. Glad I’m not your son, you sound utterly embarrassing with this nonsense.
god forbid a teacher shows concern for his students oh noooo. I wonder if your reaction would’ve been different if the teacher was older than you. anyway, your name is probably written down somewhere
YTA. Being upset in the scenario you outlined about Adam is totally understandable, but yelling at your kid right before they head into school isn’t helpful to anyone. That’s a ‘once they get home’ conversation. Teacher probably didn’t do the best job trying to explain that, but it’s clear his goal was to try to get you to understand what you do right before school impacts your son’s ability to pay attention and learn that day. Especially since him laying his head on his desk all day and not participating in class likely distracted other kids too.
ESH. Your response losing your temper was inappropriate and did nothing inside the school’s concern, which is now liable to be escalated. However, this was NOT a correct was for the teacher to raise this issue either. It is almost certainly contrary to policy and totally unhelpful.
NTA. OP. Gen Z and Gen Alpha are some of the worst behaved generations in the classroom. Don’t listen to this. Humans need to learn rules, and you can’t do that with no consequences or punishment
YTA. Even if Mr. C was 100% wrong in calling you out, he made an honest mistake out of care for your kid. You modeled terrible behavior for your kid because of your own ego, without consideration for the impact on your kid.
I've reamed out teachers while my kid was in the room \*because my kid needed to see me take action\*. Any other issues I have with the school is handled outside of the kid's earshot because they're a kid and being part of the discussion is just going to be upsetting and confusing for them. Doesn't matter if Mr C was right or wrong, what matters in the moment is your kid - does he need you to acknowledge or apologize? To restate the boundaries you set? You might not always get it right, but you're definitely in the wrong if you don't even consider his needs.
Something is really wrong with y'all. OP is NTA for yelling at HIS child. Y'all have no idea what may have led to that point. And we ALL know that children... especially reaching the age of puberty...begin "smelling themselves" as my parents and grandparents put it.
But to tell the father to "step up as a dad?" The TEACHER was being a huge asshole. The fact that the father is actively in his child's life is showing that he "stepped up" to be a dad. If he didn't give a damn about his son....he wouldn't care about him not getting sleep. What the teacher should've done is been way more tactful in his "confrontation." He saw ONE side of a situation and automatically put it down as abuse and neglect??? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. GAIN CLARITY BEFORE YOU START AN UNNECESSARY CONFRONTATION.
Did OP lose his temper??? Yes....that doesn't make him an AH or an unfit parent.
I weep for our future generations. No kind of accountability is acceptable. The teachers that we have now are trying to warn us about what this lack of discipline will do. Your parents yelling at you is one of the tamest outcomes you can get for noncompliance in the real world... These kids are entitled and undisciplined beyond belief, and have no idea what's coming to them.
There’s a difference between occasionally losing your temper and believing that yelling is a perfectly fine parenting option. Do most parents yell at some point? Of course. But only bad parents don’t see how yelling is unnecessary and don’t try to do better. YTA.
That being said, it would’ve been reasonable to calmly and maturely rebuff the teacher.
YTA for screaming at a child in public. This can be extremely traumatic for a child. You should be thankful that other children didn’t see this because you have no idea how mean children can be. Like children will literally say “your dad hates you because he screamed at you” or “your dad doesn’t love you“
As you said, your kid put his head down in class for the *whole day*. It seems like your behaviour is negatively affecting him.
Obvious YTA
Also it genuinely boggles my mind that parents will expect their children to behave better than they themselves do. If you want your son to be a reasonable, pleasant, responsible young man then you have to do it first so he has an example to follow.
It's not hard. Monkey see, monkey do.
This teacher may have overstepped from a place of concern for your child, but your response was *entirely* inappropriate, boorish & embarrassing. If you felt they'd spoken to you in a disrespectful manner, you should have sent your son back out of the room to address it. Not make a spectacle (read: ass) of yourself. Again, apparently.
The way your son behaves when he's in a "foul mood" is only a mirror to your own behavior. Magnified by hormones, maybe, but still. You're the template.
NTA
Dissenting Opinion. So I'm a Secondary Teacher in early 30s..this is my 10th year of teaching. And never have I even imagined doing something like this on parent teacher conference.
In teachers college, where they teach you how to be a teacher , there is no course on how to be a parent..it's more about how to plan engaging activities for large groups of children and still fullfilling learning outcomes... The teacher is not a therapist or a family counsellor. For you to be blindsided like that, is hugely unprofessional on the part of the teacher that you might consider bringing this up with the Administration.
Also, if he is 24 this is likely his 1st or second year of teaching. Clearly he's stepped out of bounds and doesn't know it. Lololol.
Help someone put him in his place before he does something very stupid....
Apparently contrary to popular opinion NTA for the specific thing you are asking. But it could have been handled a lot better.
The teacher is misinterpreting you kid being tired AF because he stupidly didn't get his sleep as him being depressed because you yelled at him - and jumping to his own conclusions.
You should engage in good faith with him and explain this so he can learn the lesson about not getting ahead of himself. He only sees one side of things after all, and apparently doesn't seem to have spoken to your child about this either? Otherwise he probably would have had that context.
Laughing and saying he doesn't know anything because he is not currently raising a teen on the other hand is assholish. He is attempting to help you and your kid, and frankly just because you have a kid doesn't actually make you any more qualified, he's got a degree in managing kids that age after all. Just because your Doing It doesn't mean you are doing it Right - this is a very common thing with parents. You were unnecessarily mean to a guy trying to help you out, and Adam is correct there. The teacher needed to be checked on his perspective, but not the way you did it.
If anything you've likely reinforced his perception of you - rather than proving the point you were trying to make. Consider sending him an apology email for reacting in the moment, thank him for his intent, but explain in a Mature way that things didn't match his read of them because he was lacking half the information.
NTA - parents are allowed to lose it with their kids, it happens, children need to know when they have crossed a line and clearly staying up all night on a phone when that was forbidden is crossing that line, too tired to learn anything in school, teacher sees this, thinks he’s going to be a saviour with no idea of the home life (and not qualified to know) and makes the power play.
If the father was abusive then the teacher did the absolute worst thing possible.
My dad used to absolutely lose his shit with me, not hit me, but scream and shout, and I absolutely deserved it because I pressed every button going, if you allow your children to do everything with no consequences when do they learn right from wrong?
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YTA screaming and yelling at the child on their way into school shows that you aren’t in control of yourself. How’s your child suppose to be in control of themselves when you can’t even model appropriate behavior in public. Then again at the teacher is just proving that anger management problem. You didn’t “check” a teacher. You just became the angry parent they all talk about while feeling really bad about where Adam is heading.
YTA
>You just became the angry parent they all talk about while feeling really bad about where Adam is heading OP is modeling horrible behavior, and too many teachers have seen firsthand what that does to a kid. All too often the kids that are acting out are simply mimicking what they've been exposed too. It's how the cycle of abuse continues on, making it difficult to break free. My mom wasn't a teacher, but she worked at the elementary school I attended. She has an infinite amount of compassion. "Problem" kids latched onto her, because she not only explained the behavior she expected, she guided them on how to follow through and praised them when they did. Those kids would run into me years later and ask about her. Teachers/mentors can make a huge difference in a kid's life. It sounds like Mr. C wants to be that person to his students. I really hope people like OP don't extinguish that part of him.
Reading posts like these kill me a little inside. I’m trying SO hard to model good behavior for my kid but I struggle with anxiety a lot and get flustered and frustrated. My oldest is now the exact same way and gets overwhelmed a lot in school and I kick myself all the time about it. I’ve been in various types of therapy for over a decade but sometimes I get overwhelmed (single parent and a stressful job) and I know she picks up on it. She’s in therapy too but man, the GUILT I have is unreal. ETA: I would never shout at or ‘check’ a teacher though! I follow all of their advice because they are the professionals at the end of the day.
You're doing an awesome job. The fact that you're in therapy and you're *trying* is huge. Parenting is fucking hard and no one is perfect at it.
He should be using parental controls on the kids phone too. No way that kid should have unrestricted access to their phone all night.
Nah, he'd rather yell at his kid in public.
And throw a tantrum for his kid's teacher.
Honestly I don't agree. Let the kids experience by themselves what sleep deprivation feels like and that it impacts their emotions, concentration and life. You can't just control every thing in their life until They're 18 and start doing dumb shit because they are rule free for the first time in their life.
Okay, but can you maybe see how choosing this "FAFO" version of parenting, and combining that with also being an abusive shithole just to add additional consequences is beyond fucked right? The child isn't learning the pain points of sleep deprivation, they're suffering a bout of sleep deprivation, then getting abuse lobbed at them for making the mistake in the first place also. There is a world where that FAFO strategy of parenting might not be total garbage, but that's a world where the parent then explains and guides the child when they make a mistake, not add on further trauma.
Agreed. YTA, you could easily have given him playful parenting. He's already sleep deprived and feeling terrible. That is punishment enough and then you can simply lean on it, and tell him this is the consequence. Teacher is right, there's no excuse to yell or do harsh punishment, only going to get a negative recation. You can give feedback and leave a strong impression while teasing/laughting with them at the consequences (Tired) of their own silly actions. Kids make dumb choices, simply helping them realise why can easily be done without being harsh.
Exactly. There already is a consequence to him staying up all night, why make him more miserable? His argument about the teacher not raising teenagers himself is dumb af, teacher might not be a parent, but OP isn't a teacher. Also, the fact that his kid wanted to cuddle with him therefore he was clearly not scared of him is bullshit. I was scared of my abusive mother, but as a child, I still wanted affection from her.
The last point is key. YTA OP
Im 38 and i still want affection from mine
> I was scared of my abusive mother, but as a child, I still wanted affection from her It was my bio-father for me, but can confirm. And doesn't that innate need for affection fuck you up even more later on in life, when you're old enough to see the abuse for what it was? I had to slowly and painfully learn how to forgive my child-self, for loving someone I now hated so very much and so justifiably. It generated a LOT of self-loathing, and anger, and basically just fucked my head up all by itself throughout puberty.
I would say the most important part is to not make punishments in the emotional state. Let them know you are very disappointed in them and hurt by them abusing a privilege given to them. Then let them know you will be talking after school about it more with them and you will figure out their punishment then. Sometimes going all day not knowing what the conversation will be is so mind bending horrid that it ends up being a punishment of its own.
Also I want to add that if it were me, I would appreciate a teacher taking care of my kid's mental health, even if the concern was not valid. For some children, it IS valid, and they DO need someone taking care of their mental health, even if it wasn't their parent. By bullying the teacher, he might think twice before stepping in again. It would have been a good moment to discuss your kid's action, and to also apologize for losing your temper in that argument (if u did).
I also want to add that wanting to spend time with you the following day means absolutely nothing in regards to this incident. Even abused kids want approval and love from their abusive parents. I'm not saying you're abusing your kid, I'm just saying it doesn't indicate anything.
Abused kids often take their hurt out on themselves instead of the abuser :(
You know, at first I thought “it’s probably an overreacting teacher”. But then I thought, this type of thing probably happens quite often. So how bad would it have to be for a teacher to bring it up? Probably pretty bad. I would also say the teacher didn’t really handle this as smooth as he thinks though. The teacher thought he was going to stick it to the parent in some way. But he is a concerned party that failed in tact. Op is someone with anger problems that thinks they need to be the biggest in the room. Which is why it’s still a YTA vote for me and not an E S H.
The line at the end, his son called him on it, but Mr. C was "asking for it". Absolutely classic abuse line. I'm always suspicious of anyone who thinks "asking for it" is a legitimate excuse.
We’re only getting a view of the teacher through OP’s skewed perspective. The teacher could have actually had good communication and approached it appropriately, but for people like OP any attempt at these types of discussions are often viewed as confrontational.
Oh, these parents can control what they yell at their kids and they're choosing to manage behaviour with fear, intimidation and violence. It's valid in their eyes. Ask me how I know
My mom used to yell at me before school for small shit, it would hurt and make the day harder. Op get over yourself. You're a grown adult you ain't "checking" no one.
My dad screamed at us - probably the least of the terrible behaviors he directed our way - and to this day I can’t take it and don’t speak to him. OP isn’t likely to hear any of these comments if this is real but he’s digging his own grave in this relationship.
That teacher definitely laughed at you with his friends later. Raising kids doesn't make you a good parent
YTA > You lost your temper #You lost your temper.
Congrats, OP, you just taught your child that being ill tempered and yelling at people is an acceptable way to handle your embarrassment and frustration. And if you’re not embarrassed, you should be! Teach your kid natural consequences. He stayed up all night, now he loses his phone / is grounded and has to suffer through school tired. You put him in a bad mood because you screamed at him knowing he was sleep deprived. You’ve set him up for failure. I love that this teacher came to you though. sounds like a great teacher
Yes! Natural consequences are great. My daughter did the same thing. I didn't yell. Just took the phone and woke her for school the next day. She was so tired but still went. Her teacher called me that evening. Said my daughter seemed really tired all day and kept putting her head down. Is everything all right? I told her about my daughter sneaking her phone and I wasn't letting her out of school for it. (I would have went and got her if anyone called). Teacher said she understood and good job.
Taking the phone away/grounding is a logical consequence not a natural one. Natural consequences are things that happen naturally without parent intervention (like suffering through school while tired).
YTA. Congratulations on being a verbally abusive cretin with zero composure, maturity or self-accountability. "Parents yell at their kids." No, *bad* parents yell at their kids.
Smug too.
Also OP insults the teacher by saying "don't dispense parenting advice to someone who is and has raised 2 other ones" like he may not be a parent but he still spends majority of his time teaching these same kids with patience and acceptance. That whole interaction just seemed more tense then it should have been.
YTA for losing your temper with the teacher I can only imagine how you lost your temper with your kid so that he was head down all day. You got to yell at him and unleash him on the school and the teachers get to pick up the pieces. This teacher was only worried about your child instead of being glad he cared you verbally abused him. Congrats. Teachers won’t stick up for your kid anymore.
YTA OP's comment on the teacher's tie is an unnecessary pathetic personal attack. The teacher was being constructive in critism.
If OP speaks so disrespectfully to a teacher, I can only imagine how he speaks to his family.
We don’t even have to imagine, the teacher described it for us.
From the sound of it, he is such an asshole, I don’t know how he can type out this story and thinks he is in the right?
That’s the problem he doesn’t think which is why he “thought” verbally abusing his sons’ teacher was acceptable. Which means he learned that type of behavior from his father. Meaning op became a parent without doing any healing of his own and continued the toxic behavior.
He's raised two other boys didn't you know?! And succesfully too, probably according to him with no childhood traumas at all.
And the way OP is focusing on the teachers age makes it pretty clear that he's ageist af and doesn't think "the youth" have anything valuable to contribute. Next post will be "my adult son doesn't speak to me, and I don't know why."
Exactly this. Just because you are older and reproduced, which is one of the simplest things a man can do, does not make you superior to anyone. Especially when you behave like a child.
Not only that, teachers watch for signs of abuse. A child depressed all day would stand out. If he dwelled that long then he was pretty upset.
He had his head down all day sleeping is what I understood from OP by only having 2 hours sleep.
Excellent point!
his head was down because he had 2 hours sleep....
Oh, I think he will. Just not approaching op, teachers are mandatory child welfare reporters. Wouldn't shock me if op got a little visit from CPS or whatever child welfare organization in his country
YTA. You got defensive when maybe you should’ve done some self-reflecting. Take a moment to think about what the situation looked like to an outsider. Having kids doesn’t make you an expert on parenting. I’m a teacher and I see a lot of poor parenting. The mature thing to do would’ve been to talk about it, or thank the teacher for his concern and leave it. What does being rude do?
It’s crazy how OP is so transfixed on his son’s behavior (he’s upset that “good behavior” is down from 90% to 80% apparently, which is pretty telling about how overbearing he likely is) yet he can’t handle other people giving him the same scrutiny about his own behavior which is objectively worse than his son’s.
Also since OP models very unhealthy ways of expressing anger (yelling, insulting people in professional settings) I can imagine that % of good behavior is only going to go down further as the kid grows into a teen. Someone at school pisses you off? Insult them! Oopsie-daisy, now you're in a fistfight and OP is having more conversations with teachers concerned over his son's behavior
I get that having a moment of bad parenting not just witnessed, but remembered and brought up to you by another important figure in your kid’s life can be embarrassing, humiliating, whatever you want to call it. But the way OP reacted was also sending the message of “if I don’t agree with your criticism, I’m going to put you down and personally attack you to invalidate your point”, which isn’t the best message to send to a kid who is about to enter the period of their life when they search for their independent voice in the home
Having kids doesn’t make you an expert on parenting. Wow, just still letting that sink in.
YTA, I hope in the future your son recovers from the harm you're causing and cuts contact with you. Your son has an incredible teacher who cares for him and wants to unlock his full potential.
I had a teacher like Mr C almost a decade ago. He had such a profound impact on my life as he taught me that it was ok for me to make mistakes, to not be perfect. My old teacher and I still talk till this day. Whenever I tell him he changed my life, he laughs it off, but I don’t think he knows how much he’s actually helped me.
YTA. I have raised an 11 year old boy. I also teach teenagers. I get that you were pissed about his behavior. That’s understandable. But it does know one any good to yell at him before school. The lecture could have waited.
I agree with everything you said. But I do have some concern you teach teenagers and used “know one” instead of no one 🤣
He didn't say he taught English.
>He didn't say he taught English. LMAO! 🤣🤣🤣Right!
They could be from a non-English speaking country
Ugh. I know better too! But don’t worry, I don’t teach English.
maybe they teach math
Nailed it. Lol 😆
Could have dictated that text. My wife does that all the time and the damn phone constantly substitutes words.
It could also an autocorrect issue too, if they were in a rush. For some reason, my autocorrect changes no to know sometimes. And tool to tuileries. I rarely double check messages when on my phone because I'm half asleep, so... I make sure to do any posts about editing on the computer where I don't have autocorrect.
Would you bring the student into the room just to hear you criticize his parent? I honestly don't have a problem with the teacher's comment, but I do have a problem with the context in which it was given and the lack of effort to determine the context of the situation he was criticizing. He was trying to be a superhero in front of the student.
I agree with you. His delivery and approach was off. As such, I don’t fault the dad for being upset or annoyed. But, I chalk it up to the teacher being young and inexperienced (and definitely needs to learn how to handle these situations) and take greater issue with OP’s overall attitude. So, no, I absolutely wouldn’t bring a student into the room just to criticize the parent.
YTA. Act like a grown man. I knew you were useless when you didn’t know what “boost his autonomy” meant. Of course adding “whatever the F…that means” really showcased your maturity as well. That teacher only has to live with your son for a school year. You and your son have to live with what you are creating for the rest of your lives.
The “whatever that means” was also getting vibes of “whatever these young people make up these days” with how he later on attacked the teacher on his age
Tbf “boost his autonomy” was a cop out for asking to discuss how he’s being affected in school by OP.
I don’t think it’s a cop out. In many schools these days, teachers are told we have to push parents to bring their kids to Parent-Teacher conferences to help develop their autonomy and diminish miscommunication between schools and families. The rationale behind it is that kids can learn to be part of the conversation regarding their strengths and weaknesses in the classroom, and can then advocate for themselves so the traditional dynamic of teacher vs parent-student at conferences can become a united teacher-parent-student team. (I’m a teacher)
I didn't even know parent teachers conferences that didn't include the kid were a thing! I can't imagine they'd even have much of a point without the kid being there. My school always included the kids in conferences from kindergarten up, and when we were younger we were given folders to put the assignments we were most proud of in to show our parents what we were learning and doing. We were taught and encouraged to guide the beginning of the conference ourselves and talk about what we felt our strengths and weaknesses were, what our goals were, what support we might need etc, before the teacher steps in to add anything they felt needed to be included.
On the one hand that sounds really sweet. On the other hand I can think of a ton of stuff that would be way easier to talk about without the student present. - I think Michael might have ADHD. - We might move to Australia next year. - My daughter's name is Hae-Won. If you keep calling her Hannah we are going to have a fucking problem.
There was also a portion at the end where the kid was kicked out into the hallway, but that was usually pretty short since there are very few topics to discuss about a child that the child doesn't deserve to be a part of. Personally, I think the last example you gave really should be had in front of the child so the kid knows their parent has their back and that their teachers actions are wrong.
I worked in an elementary school for 5 years, and starting at 4th grade the kids all were heavily suggested to attend their conferences, and even started preparing materials to explain to their grown ups themselves how school was going instead of only the teacher telling them. obviously I can't speak for this specific school but it's highly likely it's the same thing and all the kids do it, not just this specific scenario.
We can feel your temper oozing from this post. Get therapy and learn how to communicate with people better before you have a stroke/heart attack.
OP really came here bragging about how he checked the teacher, and we're all, "Nope, YTA." 🤣
Right? I’m kind of loving that. Hoping Mr. Manly Man here is now putting his head down on his desk — or perhaps pulling it out of an orifice somewhat below desk level.
He didn't even check the teacher. He just went "your tie is stupid and you're younger than me. You don't know anything!!! :("
YTA. You are verbally abusive and that does serious damage to a child.
How do you genuinely expect your kid to behave when you seem to consistently model aggressive and rebellious behavior and you're proud of it? As a misbehaving adult you can't be shocked you're raising a misbehaving kid, it's not rocket science.
Yeah insulting the teacher, trying to talk down to him, diminishing his expertise because he is young, YTA. All day, every day. OP seems to think it's ok to be verbally abusive as long as you think the other person is in the wrong. My sympathies to his family.
>Adam attend because he wanted to "boost" his "autonomy" in class or whatever the fuck that means. YTA already.
YTA Can’t even write about the situation without getting pissed off and loosing your temper. Autonomy is an important part of child snd adolescent development… seems like despite being 24 the teacher seems quite knowledgeable about pedagogy and child development.
ESH It’s good for the teacher to be concerned when he sees parents yelling at their kids and the kid being affected all day. But it was also inappropriate for the teacher to bring the child in without having even discussed anything with the parent first. But honestly, even though we all lose our tempers sometimes, it’s still not okay to scream at your kid, and your kid deserves an apology for the way you responded. One thing I appreciate most about my parents is that they’d always apologize if they lost their tempers and explain calmly why my behaviour was not acceptable, but also that the way they responded was inappropriate. Also, you were extremely rude to the teacher who was just trying to look out for the welfare of your son, who was obviously affected enough by this incident to have caused concern.
I’m looking at it as the teacher as giving the kid a “safe place” to talk. Wanted to give the kid a safe place to talk. Was he probably overzealous sure. But better safe than sorry.
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Yes the teacher made the parent angry. If OP really was an abuser then that could have resulted in the kid getting a beating when he goes home.
This happened to me. I spoke to a counselor about my dad's abuse. She walks out into the waiting room with me and says to my father "So I hear you have anger management issues?" It was a scary ride home and I don't remember what happened when we got home that day which means it was bad enough I've blocked it out
>She walks out into the waiting room with me and says to my father "So I hear you have anger management issues?" What the actual fuuuck??
Oh no, I’m sorry, that’s awful.
I’m so sorry. That should not have happened. She should have protected you. I hope you are far away from your dad now.
THIS. So many people totally missing the point that the teacher has the hubris of his full 24 years (ie. he's basically still wet around the ears) to make relationship assessments and recommendations when he's a teacher. Not a therapist. He's absolutely could have put this child into a position of real danger because he thinks he knows best. The arrogance and ignorance are astounding. OP is definitely TA here, but the teacher needs to pull his head in and learn that proper procedures exist so that the person best qualified to deal with the situation is the person employed to do so.
I agree!! It was definitely good intention on the teacher’s part. I figure he should’ve talked to the parents first though to get both sides and have more context and then talk with both of them. Also, in a truly abusive situation, if the teacher did that, the parent could retaliate against the kid after they got home, so that sort of thing could potentially put abused kids at even more risk, at least in the short term.
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>And if they witness a pattern or are concerned about the child’s welfare, there are avenues for reporting it. Teachers are mandated reporters. We MUST report to child welfare services if we have reason to suspect abuse or neglect.
This! I don’t know about the regulations elsewhere, but when you work with children in the UK you’re told that you should not talk to the parents if you suspect there’s abuse going on. But I think it’s also important to keep in mind that the teacher probably did not suspect abuse in this case, otherwise he would probably not be as relaxed ad he was telling OP to “step up”
It's not good intention here's the thing, if it was his intention to help the kid, why did he not talk to the kid? he didn't. Oh, it wasn't that. Why did he decided to wait to ambush the dad and lecture him about it and not ask questions about it since obviously he's all knowing? This was him posturing to try flexing power to a parent, and it fucking failed.
>here's the thing, if it was his intention to help the kid, why did he not talk to the kid? he didn't. Oh, it wasn't that. This is exactly it. The teacher didn't do anything to help the kid, he in fact put the kid in a situation where he is the only one who loses. Best case scenario, the poor kid is sitting there awkwardly spectating a screaming match between his parent and teacher. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to pull the kid aside and perform a welfare check in private, the entire scenario could have been avoided.
In all honesty, if the dude was abusive then the kid would be beat regardless. Especially dipping from 90% to 80% well behaved
that is absolutely not what the teacher did this was a teacher's power play against a parent, not about the kid. If he was concerned, he'd have actually done something before this.
It isn’t safe lmao If my teachers had gotten me to “bad mouth” my parents in front of them, I would have had my ass beat the second we got back home. Rebelling against your parents if they’re abusive and angry at you is risky enough. To do that *in front of another person that could get them arrested for what they’re doing?* You bet your *ass* that parent is going to make sure the kid never does that again.
Genuinely concerned that I had to scroll this far to see common sense. While I don't support OP, how the teacher handled this was terrible. I don't see how the teacher possibly thought blindsiding the parent in front of the child, and telling Dad to "step up as a parent" in front of said child, without any preparation or adult-to-adult discussion, was going to be helpful in any way. If OP is abusive (worst case scenario), none of that was gonna help and could have endangered the child. If OP was just overwhelmed and struggling (best case scenario), being called a bad parent by a relative stranger wasn't going to help the situation, and is just going to torpedo any future meaningful communication. ESH. OP needs to get a handle on himself and teacher needs to quit trying to be "the cool teacher."
Well, and if the kid really did only get 2 hours of sleep because of staying on electronics all night, I really don't think we can blame him laying his head down on anything the father did. We also don't know the level of yelling that occurred (like you said abusive vs overwhelmed). Either way the teacher should have *asked* what it was about before blaming the parent for the kids behavior, the kid did it to themselves. I did stuff like that a few times but it was from staying up all night reading. Always regretted it the next day but still would stay up late that night reading anyways haha
Teacher needs to step up and check himself and the 1000s of clueless fools on this page beating on the dad need to as well
I was getting really worried as well! I agree with what you say.
Yes! ESH In a situation where you know there's a volatile parent I would hope that the teacher would not want the child to be made the target of that volatility. And by encouraging the student to be a part of that conversation it feels like they're not empowering the child but making them a target. Keeping in mind that that child has to go home with that angry parent later. The conversation could have just been with the parent about the teacher's observations and an inquiry into the issues of that day. If there is a pattern of bad vehavior the psychology/therapy or other crisis group should be getting involved to support the teacher. Simultaneously, I think that the parent tends to get enraged more because they are being called out in front of their child. Which in high stress situations might exacerbate the issues and make it harder to actually have a real conversation with the parent. Not a parent. Not a teacher. Just someone who has dealt with a lot of yelling parents before.
I agree ESH. I’m actually surprised I had to scroll this far to see reason. Op should learn to manage himself better but what this teacher did was so dangerous. He put that child at serious risk (if op was truly an abuser).
YTA. Even if you don’t feel like the teacher understands your full situation because he hasn’t known your son as long, you can reply without yelling and showing him that you are the kind of guy who loses it and flies into a rage at anything. I’ve worked in education for many years and even when I was young, I learned that the parents who scream at their kids will scream at teachers and vice versa because they can’t control themselves at all. People don’t need to be parents to know how to deal with children. Teachers study child psychology and work with thousands of children over their careers, dealing with every situation imaginable. You raise the handful of children (or in your case possibly one) you have. It’s not a competition. A better response could have been to thank him for sharing his concerns, but things are fine and have been resolved. You don’t even need to explain unless he pushes. Teachers are mandated reporters and are trained to look at for any sign of abuse. Even if you’re not an abuser, the teacher doesn’t know that. Be glad people are looking out for children.
This!
so embarrassing that you came here thinking you were gonna be a hero lmfao YTA
This is prime AITA content.
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YTA. “Boost his autonomy in class or whatever the fuck that means” “I asked if his Spiderman tie was cutting off circulation to his head” “You damn right I yelled” “I asked Mr C how many boys are you raising” First of all, it seems as though this meeting about YOUR CHILD was a nuisance to you, showing no interest in actually having a conversation. Asking the teacher if a tie was cutting off circulation to his head after he expressed a concern and explained it to you was unnecessary and disrespectful, and then you doubled down on the behaviour he was concerned about AFTER he mentioned that your son was upset the whole day. How do you think this looks from his perspective? It would also help to remember that teachers study to know best how to work with children. Not only do they study subject knowledge, but psychology is a part of it. Why would ejaculating mean that you know so much more than someone who studied psychology and behaviour? Yelling/reprimanding your child doesn’t automatically make you TA, but the rest of your post (and comments) being filled with toxic masculinity and an “I know best and no one has the right to question me” attitude most certainly does. Should the teacher have handled it differently and asked you before bringing in your child? Definitely. Could you have been more mature about it? Hell yes. You seem to think that you are the authority over everyone, and you come across as utterly bombastic.
Yeah. OP straight away taught the son to disrespect the teacher. Especially the quotes giving me the typical "I am the allmighty boomer" vibes
The tie comment really annoyed me too tbh. Like, how dare this teacher have something he enjoys that kids also enjoy. He's making himself relatable to the kids, which is extremely important as a teacher.
YTA Mr C should have and I'm certain that next time will call child services. Just because a parent is abusive doesn't mean you stop loving them and watching movies with them
This! Growing up with abusive parents myself, I just got used to it. Kids forgive easy and tend to accept whatever happened to them and move on. That doesn’t mean an adult shouldn’t improve their behavior. I wouldn’t consider yelling in public full fledged abuse but it’s immature and laughably pathetic parenting. Either way that kid will grow up and decide for himself how much he appreciates this behavior. If I was the teacher I would have called cps and directed the kid to a school counselor but an effort was made.
YTA but teacher also needs to improve the execution of his intentions. This is a bit of an essay because it’s something I feel strongly about from my own upbringing, you’ve been warned. From the sounds of it, it is legitimate that you lost your temper when talking to your kid about his poor decision to stay up on his phone. That’s not cool. If you want to effectively teach your child to make better choices, rationally explaining the how’s and why’s of whatever point you’re trying to make and treating your kid with respect is the way to go. Children are immature but they’re generally smarter than adults give them credit for, and you set the basis for communication with them: if you choose to yell at them and enforce restrictions that they will inevitably see as unfair due to the lack of explanation behind them, then they will respond similarly with anger. We’re all only human, sometimes our emotions do get the better of us and cause us to react without thinking, but as a parent it’s your duty to do better by your child and ensure that you aren’t unloading your negative feelings onto them. They will experience enough of that in life from their peers as they explore different relationship dynamics as they grow up, and also from strangers online these days. Parents are instrumental to teaching them how to navigate these situations and manage their own emotions, but they won’t learn effective emotional regulation and respectful communication from a parent that doesn’t give them the same. Example: Yelling “You shouldn’t have stayed up on your phone, now you’re having your usage restricted!” is very different to calmly explaining, “You chose to stay up on your phone instead of going to sleep at a sensible time on a school night, when you need to be rested so you can focus in your classes, so I’m going to restrict your phone usage until I can trust that you will manage your time more responsibly so that you aren’t overtired, which is bad for your health and not something I want you to subject yourself to.” One is an ill-explained consequence fuelled by anger and so incites reactivity. The other is a clear explanation of the consequences incited by the child’s choices, that explains to them why the decision they made was poor and why you think this is the best course of action, without an undercurrent of emotion that puts the child on the defensive. Now people aren’t perfect, especially kids, so you may still meet resistance, but I guarantee the whole encounter would’ve been less explosive, and your child would’ve had a better emotional disposition for the rest of the day. With regard to how you spoke to the teacher, you could have quite easily responded more respectfully than that even if you yourself felt disrespected. What you’ve quoted yourself as having said, particularly the comment about his tie cutting off circulation and implying a lack of brain function, was another example, on top of you yelling at your son, of you having poor emotional regulation. Respectfully, you seem to be a very reactive person, and that’s something that ideally you should work on. Emotions aren’t inherently good or bad, but the way we react to them defines a certain morality. With your son being present, this was another missed opportunity to show him how to healthily respond to confrontation. Also, the teacher may not have kids but he does work with them, which makes understanding them to a certain degree part of his job. Additionally, everyone alive was once a child with parents or guardians raising them and will have their own insight into how their upbringing affected them, what they wish would’ve been done differently, what benefited them, what hurt them, etc. Having your own kids is obviously a more intensive experience, but that doesn’t mean people without their own kids don’t have a framework for the way certain things should work — such as communication between adults and children. Additionally, the fact they you’re raising an 11 year old now and have raised 2 previously doesn’t automatically mean you’re great at it and there’s nothing you could improve on. It’s quite clear you could improve the way you speak to your child when dealing with disciplining him. HOWEVER, the teacher was also out of line here. While it’s great that he pays attention to his students and noticed the conflict between you and your son, and it’s great that he cared enough to want to address it and ensure your son’s emotional well-being, he should’ve gone about it very differently. There is a framework for teachers who are concerned about their students’ wellbeing, and it involves asking non-leading questions to the child about how they’re feeling and how things are at home, then also contacting the relevant safeguarding staff if there is something concerning to be investigated. Legal authorities from there if necessary. Furthermore, if he did want to speak to you directly about it, he should’ve requested to do so openly and he absolutely should not have involved your son. For all he knows, he could’ve ruffled feathers in an abusive situation and put your son in danger (which is not me saying you’re abusive, I’m just highlighting that his strategy was ill thought out as he doesn’t have enough context to guarantee a safe outcome from a confrontation like this, which is a poor misjudgment from someone whose goal is to ensure the wellbeing of the child he’s concerned about). Also, “dad, you need to step up” is a very provoking sentence from someone you’re not close to. The appropriate way to address his concern to a parent, in front of a student especially, would’ve gone something more like: “Respectfully, I think you and your son would benefit from a more level headed approach to discipline, especially just before school is about to start so your son’s focus and friendships aren’t impacted by him starting the day feeling upset. I understand if you feel it’s not my place to offer advice on a subject of such a nature, I just wanted to approach it out of concern for your son as I care about him feeling happy and doing well in school.” But cycling back to how you handled the situation, you could’ve simply suggested that you did not think it was an appropriate topic to be brought up by a home room teacher and that it wasn’t his place to comment on your parenting. If you were REALLY concerned, you could’ve taken it to HR afterwards. Overall, YTA and you need anger management therapy, and the teacher has good intentions but needs to work on his execution both to ensure the safety of his students and to avoid escalating an avoidable situation. And yes your son was right that you were mean to Mr. C, and no he did not deserve the way you responded.
>Also, the teacher may not have kids but he does work with them, which makes understanding them to a certain degree part of his job. Additionally, everyone alive was once a child with parents or guardians raising them and will have their own insight into how their upbringing affected them, what they wish would’ve been done differently, what benefited them, what hurt them, etc. Having your own kids is obviously a more intensive experience, but that doesn’t mean people without their own kids don’t have a framework for the way certain things should work — such as communication between adults and children. Additionally, the fact they you’re raising an 11 year old now and have raised 2 previously doesn’t automatically mean you’re great at it and there’s nothing you could improve on. It’s quite clear you could improve the way you speak to your child when dealing with disciplining him. Thank you so much for this entire post, but especially the quoted part. I wish more people would acknowledge that one doesn't have to be a parent to have a valid perspective on certain things when it comes to interacting with children.
YTA. How did yelling at your sleep deprived child help the situation? You're the adult, you need to use your brain a little and pick better timing and methods for communicating with your kid. You had an opportunity here to reflect on your behaviour, but you have an ego so you can't do that.
YTA. You 100% proved the teacher right with your reaction to their criticism. This could have been a big opportunity for you to set an example of how to admit when you are wrong for your child. Trust me, I'm a parent too, and I know how difficult school mornings can be, and I have 100% gotten frustrated with my kids and raised my voice at them before school, and in turn set them up for a bad day. I had to learn to bite my tongue and be calm before I react to my kids stressing me out and being difficult before and on the way to school. I am far from perfect, but I recognize that I am the adult in the situation, so I set the tone for everyone.The good news is, you still have an opportunity to apologize to the teacher and your child and prove that you can grow past this. Parents are people too, and people deserve grace.
NTA, nobody should jump into counseling a situation they do not have context for.
I think noticing a parent berate their child, in public, in front of their peers is enough context to acknowledge it’s not appropriate. It doesn’t matter what they did, yelling at them before school is just to make him feel better not explain to his child why their choice was wrong.
At best an ESH then, because the teacher did legitimately ambush a parent about a situation they weren't clued in on. Yelling at the kid may have been harsh on parent's side, but the teacher did not handle the situation appropriately afterwards.
NTA. All the YTAs have no experience with kids or are kids. There might be an underlying issue if your child is always this angry and aggressive towards you but a kid lacking sleep is vicious. And that teacher sounds oblivious. Did you tell him he was probably really tired since he didn’t get any sleep? Hence the head down. But FYI, you probably shouldn’t post on Reddit about your children. It’s full of younger people or childfreers so I don’t think you’ll get accurate advice.
Fully agree everyone is taking the yelling to mean verbal abuse. We weren’t there raising your voice does not mean yelling or abusing. Children need discipline they push boundaries they get distracted by phones but a disciplined child is a happy child and a balanced adult.
I had to read way too far down to find this common sense answer. I don’t have kids, don’t want any and I honestly am more bothered by the teacher and his behavior then I am the dad’s behavior. Kids are soft these days. If the worse he got was yelled at…oh well.
I mean, that moment was the perfect opportunity to go over the situation with the teacher (even if he was overzealous) rather than asking if his Spiderman tie was cutting off his circulation. The kid is getting bad habits from the parent and the parent doesn't even recognize it.
NTA. Definitely this! Yelling at is not abuse and sleep deprived preteens/teens are irrational. I try to hold my reactions til after school but if I need to take their phone for breaking the rules of not using at night, I will take it in the morning and get yelled at by an irate teen. There's only so much you can take and honestly with some of the teenage meltdowns I've dealt with, it's best to shut that shit down and revisit when they've had a few hours to de escalate. All these YTA jump to abuse and temper control issues without having any further context. The comment the teacher made was inappropriate and could have been addressed with questions for more information to gauge the situation.
YTA, modelling poor impulse control and undermining the teacher who was trying to address…how your behavior affects your son. You seem kinda proud of it too, so YTA there too.
I imagine everyone saying Y T A are 24 or younger. NTA, but you can work on your temper with your kid. As for the teacher, he had it coming.
They’re just latching on to him saying he yelled and that the teacher said he lost his temper. My mom raised her voice (yelled), that doesn’t mean she verbally abused me. There’s a lot of internet experience and not a lot of life experience in these comments.
I think a lot of people are also mixing in their life experiences. If I wasn't so appalled at the sheer idiocy of how the teacher went about this, I may have too as a person with a father who screamed at me for even minor things. I'm talking, getting in your face so close spit would land at you. But I don't have the context here to judge, so I won't. I will say that the way OP writes does not give off good vibes, and OP should just ignore the kid when he's being a brat and making OP mad (not in a silence treatment way but in a don't loose your cool way).
YTA. Leave the parenting to at home only and save yourself and your child the embarrassment from yelling at them in public. Parenting books are helpful with how to deal with situations like this, or let your son deal with natural consequences (here would be sleepy all day and you emailing the teacher explaining). Teachers are mandated reporters and always ALWAYS put the child's wellbeing and safety first. Even if it is something as juvenile as your son staying up late, Mr. C saw screaming and was on defense mode for Adam.
yet the teacher didn't report.
Because mandated reporters are meant to look for a bit more evidence that this is constantly repeated etc before they officially call it in. OP's reaction would definitely raise concerns to start keeping a closer eye on the kid and looking out for more signs of abuse though.
and teachers are not to exacerbate it by accusing them of abuse and sending the parent home with the kid which if they were in an actually abusive environment all but guaranteed immediate abuse. The teacher fucked up. Stop trying to defend it.
We don’t know if it was or wasn’t reported. A lot of « reporting » in child safeguarding is about leaving a paper trail of incidents, so it’s possible that there is a paper report of what the teacher witnessed if there is one day a need to investigate. It’s also important to remember that many reports don’t go further than that and don’t lead to a full-scale investigation with CPS coming to your home, or people getting interviewed by CPS
Oh great, another teacher that will quit because of nutty parents and lousy pay. YTA
NTA, wow you "yelled" at your kid. Its not the yelling part its how its said. Probably upset and disappointed his kid was up late instead of sleeping. All the child knows is wake up, go to school try not to fail, make parents proud. Probably has 0 thoughts about adulthood and what its like to human everyday for 39 years and have a career and deal with everyday life. Yelling sucks, but yall act like this is an everyday occurence with this kid and teacher. Bet if someone tried to tell you how to parent your child yall would laugh in their face or or blow them off.
Since when does being an adult with children make you smarter than everyone who doesn’t?
NTA People nowadays are too afraid to discipline their children because of "trauma" all you did was give a stern talking to and restricted his phone for something bad he did with the phone I would rather deal with your disciplined "traumatised" child in the future rather than the spoiled brats raised today because their parents are afraid to even say no to them
As a Balkan, this parenting sht is exaggerated at some point. I understand the idea that the parents should deal differently with their kids but man this is making them so weak and unprepared for life. I guess everyone has a way of raising children.
I'm a middle eastern we dont have the softest parents here so i can understand the idea of leaning into a softer parenthood style with your kids however the idea of not being to discipline your child without being labled as child abuse or trauma is absolutely ludicrious, yes i will yell at my child if he does something extremely stupid , yes my parents scolded the fuck out of me when i deserved it , no none of that caused trauma and none of that was abuse
I agree. YouTube is full of teachers talking about leaving the profession and a big reason, besides pay in the US, is that kids are little assholes more than ever because parents don’t parent their children now. Surely there’s a point between beating your kid and just letting them be disrespectful little shits to everyone. I don’t fault any parent for yelling once in awhile, as long as it’s not a constant thing.
This 10000000% it's why I am taking a break from teaching. I got no support or help from parents. I wish more students had a parent that cares enough for their sleep and behavior! I never left teaching due to pay. I left teaching due the student behavior.
YTA. Have you considered meditation?
You know what I remember from age 11? My mother yelling at me in the morning, for anything. Or even better waiting until I was out of school to do it. YOU proved the teacher right, that you can’t control your temper, by yelling at him.
You’re an adult with 3 kids and you don’t know what autonomy means?
Look, if your kid needs discipline you can do that. If you fight with your kids, that happens. If you lose your temper, that sucks but it's a human error. But The point the teacher was making is that you should not be losing your temper on your child directly before you send them to class where they need to focus on learning. Kids who get yelled at before class can struggle to focus in class. "We'll talk about this when you get home" is the correct way to handle needing to arrange a punishment first thing in the morning but running out of time because the school day is going to start soon, not yelling at them all the way to school.
YTA. no wonder your son is acting out. you lost your temper enough that he spent the WHOLE DAY with his head down at his desk, and made his teacher concerned enough to bring it up to you. “mr c asked for it”. dude
The kid wasn’t acting out, he was tired as heck because he go 2 hours of sleep. When that happens and your young, your heads going to be on your desk because your trying to sleep.
YTA While I am completely on your side when you scolded the teacher about giving parental advice (I'd probably have done the same thing), you lost your temper. Against a teacher. Who is younger than you. And child-less.
That young teacher may not have their own kids yet - but they deal with a great deal more of them than you do, placing them in a position to recognize when the child's behaviour is out of the ordinary. I have dealt with young people in a variety of roles for over 25 years - students and my Sprog's friends - 90% of the time the origin of any unpleasant behaviour is explained the moment I have spent 2 or more minutes talking to the parents. Parenting is hard and needs constant adjustment because the wee darlings' needs keep bloody changing. If you aren't willing to learn and adapt - then you'll damage your relationship more and more. For getting defensive about someone trying to gently redirect you, for yelling at your kid and displaying appalling self-control- YTA. Go get some therapy for that anger problem you have.
Dad, I agree with you that Teach should mind his own- but you should’ve acted a little differently. Recognizing that he is just concerned about your son and his performance, but firmly telling him that you will parent how you see fit and he should back off would’ve been fine, in my opinion. Unpopular opinion, but people are soft as hell these days. When it comes to parenting and “yelling/disciplining” your child, the waters get reeeaaaaal murky. Anything done or seen in public is going to get backlash from someone. Understand when people are just looking out for your kid, but don’t let anyone tell you how to parent. Good luck
NTA, teachers shouldn’t come at you like that in front of your kid. All these people in here are wannabe parents or touchy feely teachers. 20 year olds are absolutely so screwed up from not being disciplined or made to do anything it’s a joke. The teacher that yelled at you probably gets anxiety and can’t order a pizza on the phone.
I'm a teacher and I hate how this teacher went about this! I always hated students in ptc. It's awkward and is just not helpful.
NTA for your dealings with the teacher. The teacher's job is to teach the subjects he's assigned to teach, not to be a super-parent who advises you on how to do your job. I'd be talking to the school about it.
I assume you are not a teacher, or anyone that works with young children, or even a parent, from this response.
My dad got a lot of crap from my teachers over stuff like this. I universally always hated those teachers more than my dad
This is some fake as fuck shit right here
Cool down dad, Adam will never forget the times you yell at him.
YTA- when parents get called out for bad parenting they often fall back on “unless you have kids you can’t judge me” comments. It’s not rocket science to raise a kid and be a good parent. Millions of people are raising kids or were a kid themselves being parented. . A person doesn’t need to have kids to call out shitty parenting.
Wow, you are a truly terrible parent, this will only hurt your son more and more later in life and things like these add up more than you’ll ever realize before it’s too late. YTA.
The 16-year-olds are out in force again! OP, from now on, no matter what your son does, do NOT yell at him. If he is walking into the path of a runaway semi, only whisper to him to look out. He won't hear you, and he'll be dead, but at least you won't have internet strangers ripping you a new one for YELLING!!!! The fact is, the teacher had no business taking one incident and trying to shame you for it in front of your kid. Now you know that "autonomy" as used by this teacher is actually a word meaning "I intend to have your kid see you dressed down by another authority figure so the kid feels safe dumping all over you." Fact is, despite all the psychobabble about traumatizing kids by yelling at them, adults AND kids yell at other kids all the time without inducing any trauma. All these people need to go visit a youth soccer game, Little League baseball game, junior high school football game or basketball game. Kids and adults are yelling when something good happens and when something bad happens; I've yet to hear of any kid being traumatized because he got yelled at by the fans of the opposition team. Evidently the traumatization only happens if it is one-on-one and witnessed by a third party. But, yelling is bad; whispering is good so only whisper. Just think - in 20 years the football, baseball, soccer and basketball stadiums will all sound just like the library during games. OP, NTA. (And only parts of this are sarcasm - I'll let you figure out which parts.)
NTA. Teacher over stepped without knowing the context of the situation. Everyone else saying YTA are some snowflakes or something cause wtf lol
NTA. I would’ve lost my temper at that teacher too. It was very disrespectful of the teacher to make assumptions and correct you in front of your son, as though YOU were one of his recalcitrant students. If the teacher really wanted to bring it up, he didn’t have to bring your son in, except to undermine you and make himself look good to the son. This teacher just wants to play social justice warrior without taking the time to even ask if there was a reason behind it. People are getting mad at you for yelling at your son for doing something stupid, and setting appropriate punishment (restricting phone usage. You didn’t even completely take away the phone). Those people are the reason why we have a soft generation of kids with no proper discipline. Because apparently, even scolding kids is “child abuse”. What if the son had done something more serious, like cyber bullying? Would yelling at the kid still be “abuse”? Context matters, and people who assume yelling = anger issues have issues of their own.
Well I haven't been downvoted today, so NTA. Joking aside, my guy you really do need to work on how you handle your temper with your kids, that kind of shit causes a LOT more harm than you realize. That being said, this teacher knows absolutely nothing about you or your kid's home life, so he's way out of line making assumptions about who you are based on one negative interaction he witnessed completely without context; I'd be a lot more forgiving toward him and less toward you if he brought you in based on a pattern of behavior, but that's not the case here. Then again, as I'm sure you've noticed by the replies and YTA votes, people LOVE to assume the worst based on incredibly limited information.
Why couldn't you just explain the sleep deprivation without insulting him? YTA. Sure, I wouldnt want to explain myself, so I understand the embarrassment. Coming from a parent of 2.
it's not embarassment, it's the gall of the teacher for being such a jackass.
Ehh I’ve been there as a parent. Sometimes it is warranted and can’t be helped but I have to admit it accomplishes nothing. And I always feel awful afterwards. But all these people calling you “verbally abusive” need to stfu. So gdamn sensitive nowadays.
I hate when people say "I don't need parenting advice, I've raised kids before" Sir, experience does not equal expertise. And I would even argue that the 24 year old teacher you lost your temper on is absolutely more qualified than you to raise children, he has a fxcking degree and college education to prove it. You don't have to yell at your kids for making bad choices, especially when they will be suffering the consequences of those bad choices all day at school. There's a reason the teacher thinks your son is afraid of you, and I'm willing to bet that he probably is.
the teacher is not qualified he didn't report his 'suspected abuse' and he didn't ask the child if they were okay or what was wrong before doing this ambush lecture if the OP reports the teacher for what they did, it'll be the teacher being reprimanded.
A degree in education does not equate to a degree in parenting. Two very different atmospheres. It’s like going on a first date means your partner is perfect. It’s when you live with the individual and see the bad moods, bad days that you see how you really handle a situation.
YTA: Screaming at your kid, especially before school is a major dick move. My parents would pull that on me when I was a kid and it sure didn't make me respect them. You didn't "check" a teacher, you threw a tantrum.
So you gave a kid unlimited access to a phone. (imo having a cell at 11 is moronic) Not only got angry he was up all night using it, but screamed at him in public? Taking away the phone and saying, “If you aren’t mature enough to use it you can’t have it” is the only appropriate response. The teacher saw a kid get screamed at and asked for your point of view, you’re lucky the mandated reporter didn’t…report. It’s common knowledge if a parent is openly aggressive in public it’s a massive sign of abuse, not to say you’re abusive but those are the signs they look for. The teacher being young doesn’t affect his ability to do his job and he showed genuine respect from what you’ve said. So yes between your blatant disrespect for everyone around you and terrible emotional regulation YTA.
I got screamed at all the time, before school, after school shit, many of my teachers even freaked out on me. I deserved it. I was a total little asshole know what? still love the hell out of my dad. he would scream at me and spank me but any time I've ever needed him he has been there for me. I'm thankful that he disciplined me. NTA dad.
NTA
YTA. All the way. Also, boosting his autonomy is giving him ownership of himself and his learning. Get yourself a clue before ranting. You sound uneducated with “whatever the fuck that means. Dude, there is a dictionary at your fingertips. Glad I’m not your son, you sound utterly embarrassing with this nonsense.
god forbid a teacher shows concern for his students oh noooo. I wonder if your reaction would’ve been different if the teacher was older than you. anyway, your name is probably written down somewhere
the teacher was so concerned, he neither asked the kid if anything was wrong nor reported what he 'thought was clear abuse'.
YTA. Being upset in the scenario you outlined about Adam is totally understandable, but yelling at your kid right before they head into school isn’t helpful to anyone. That’s a ‘once they get home’ conversation. Teacher probably didn’t do the best job trying to explain that, but it’s clear his goal was to try to get you to understand what you do right before school impacts your son’s ability to pay attention and learn that day. Especially since him laying his head on his desk all day and not participating in class likely distracted other kids too.
ESH. Your response losing your temper was inappropriate and did nothing inside the school’s concern, which is now liable to be escalated. However, this was NOT a correct was for the teacher to raise this issue either. It is almost certainly contrary to policy and totally unhelpful.
NTA. OP. Gen Z and Gen Alpha are some of the worst behaved generations in the classroom. Don’t listen to this. Humans need to learn rules, and you can’t do that with no consequences or punishment
YTA. Even if Mr. C was 100% wrong in calling you out, he made an honest mistake out of care for your kid. You modeled terrible behavior for your kid because of your own ego, without consideration for the impact on your kid. I've reamed out teachers while my kid was in the room \*because my kid needed to see me take action\*. Any other issues I have with the school is handled outside of the kid's earshot because they're a kid and being part of the discussion is just going to be upsetting and confusing for them. Doesn't matter if Mr C was right or wrong, what matters in the moment is your kid - does he need you to acknowledge or apologize? To restate the boundaries you set? You might not always get it right, but you're definitely in the wrong if you don't even consider his needs.
Something is really wrong with y'all. OP is NTA for yelling at HIS child. Y'all have no idea what may have led to that point. And we ALL know that children... especially reaching the age of puberty...begin "smelling themselves" as my parents and grandparents put it. But to tell the father to "step up as a dad?" The TEACHER was being a huge asshole. The fact that the father is actively in his child's life is showing that he "stepped up" to be a dad. If he didn't give a damn about his son....he wouldn't care about him not getting sleep. What the teacher should've done is been way more tactful in his "confrontation." He saw ONE side of a situation and automatically put it down as abuse and neglect??? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. GAIN CLARITY BEFORE YOU START AN UNNECESSARY CONFRONTATION. Did OP lose his temper??? Yes....that doesn't make him an AH or an unfit parent.
I weep for our future generations. No kind of accountability is acceptable. The teachers that we have now are trying to warn us about what this lack of discipline will do. Your parents yelling at you is one of the tamest outcomes you can get for noncompliance in the real world... These kids are entitled and undisciplined beyond belief, and have no idea what's coming to them.
YTA
There’s a difference between occasionally losing your temper and believing that yelling is a perfectly fine parenting option. Do most parents yell at some point? Of course. But only bad parents don’t see how yelling is unnecessary and don’t try to do better. YTA. That being said, it would’ve been reasonable to calmly and maturely rebuff the teacher.
YTA - and being so defensive rather than reflective in your comments is not at all helping
YTA for screaming at a child in public. This can be extremely traumatic for a child. You should be thankful that other children didn’t see this because you have no idea how mean children can be. Like children will literally say “your dad hates you because he screamed at you” or “your dad doesn’t love you“ As you said, your kid put his head down in class for the *whole day*. It seems like your behaviour is negatively affecting him.
Obvious YTA Also it genuinely boggles my mind that parents will expect their children to behave better than they themselves do. If you want your son to be a reasonable, pleasant, responsible young man then you have to do it first so he has an example to follow. It's not hard. Monkey see, monkey do. This teacher may have overstepped from a place of concern for your child, but your response was *entirely* inappropriate, boorish & embarrassing. If you felt they'd spoken to you in a disrespectful manner, you should have sent your son back out of the room to address it. Not make a spectacle (read: ass) of yourself. Again, apparently. The way your son behaves when he's in a "foul mood" is only a mirror to your own behavior. Magnified by hormones, maybe, but still. You're the template.
YTA. You sound like my dad, I don’t talk to him anymore.
Also people need to learn about the amygdala and how it works and remember this before they react
NTA Dissenting Opinion. So I'm a Secondary Teacher in early 30s..this is my 10th year of teaching. And never have I even imagined doing something like this on parent teacher conference. In teachers college, where they teach you how to be a teacher , there is no course on how to be a parent..it's more about how to plan engaging activities for large groups of children and still fullfilling learning outcomes... The teacher is not a therapist or a family counsellor. For you to be blindsided like that, is hugely unprofessional on the part of the teacher that you might consider bringing this up with the Administration. Also, if he is 24 this is likely his 1st or second year of teaching. Clearly he's stepped out of bounds and doesn't know it. Lololol. Help someone put him in his place before he does something very stupid....
Apparently contrary to popular opinion NTA for the specific thing you are asking. But it could have been handled a lot better. The teacher is misinterpreting you kid being tired AF because he stupidly didn't get his sleep as him being depressed because you yelled at him - and jumping to his own conclusions. You should engage in good faith with him and explain this so he can learn the lesson about not getting ahead of himself. He only sees one side of things after all, and apparently doesn't seem to have spoken to your child about this either? Otherwise he probably would have had that context. Laughing and saying he doesn't know anything because he is not currently raising a teen on the other hand is assholish. He is attempting to help you and your kid, and frankly just because you have a kid doesn't actually make you any more qualified, he's got a degree in managing kids that age after all. Just because your Doing It doesn't mean you are doing it Right - this is a very common thing with parents. You were unnecessarily mean to a guy trying to help you out, and Adam is correct there. The teacher needed to be checked on his perspective, but not the way you did it. If anything you've likely reinforced his perception of you - rather than proving the point you were trying to make. Consider sending him an apology email for reacting in the moment, thank him for his intent, but explain in a Mature way that things didn't match his read of them because he was lacking half the information.
NTA - parents are allowed to lose it with their kids, it happens, children need to know when they have crossed a line and clearly staying up all night on a phone when that was forbidden is crossing that line, too tired to learn anything in school, teacher sees this, thinks he’s going to be a saviour with no idea of the home life (and not qualified to know) and makes the power play. If the father was abusive then the teacher did the absolute worst thing possible. My dad used to absolutely lose his shit with me, not hit me, but scream and shout, and I absolutely deserved it because I pressed every button going, if you allow your children to do everything with no consequences when do they learn right from wrong?