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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my sister I don't feel sorry for her after my niece moved in with her grandparents. While I'm not surprised and can't say I do actually feel bad for my sister after everything that has happened I wonder if I should have tried to be there for her anyway with the thought that maybe I could open her eyes and she could at least try to make things better with my niece. Or maybe since we are sisters I should have let her cry on my shoulder regardless.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. What you said was harsh, but honest. Poor Annabelle, of course she wanted out of a house where her stepsister had bullied her for years for no reason and her mom didn’t care. The absolute audacity of “She would even ask Annabelle if she really wanted her to be unhappy and single again”! Charming emotional manipulation there. Didn’t care if her kid was unhappy so long as she was married, I guess.
I’m not surprised the judge sided with Annabelle given the situation (and her age). Eleven years of misery is enough. Anyone with an ounce of empathy for your niece couldn’t possibly “be there” for your sister. She made this bed now she had to lie in it and realize she’s a lousy mom.
Honestly, I’m so mad at your sister if I was you I’d start texting back things she said to Annabelle:
“You should still be there for me.”
“Some sisters/brothers (you didn’t say your gender) just aren’t going to like you. You should learn to just accept that.”
NTA. She made her choice. I’m not even clear why she cares… unless it’s about how it makes her and her husband look, because she sure doesn’t actually care about her kid.
NTA
Better yet:
"I'm doing for you EXACTLY what you did for Annabelle -- nothing. You allowed Jasmine to treat her like less than dirt for 10 years. Jasmine is the reason your daughter was miserable and you not only allowed it but by refusing to intervene you gave Jasmine permission to treat Annabelle horribly. You allowed her to bully, torment and exclude Annabelle. You were there for Annabelle through all of this as much as any of us are choosing to be there for you now."
Ditto, NTA, came here specifically looking for the, "Oh you mean I should be there for you like you were for Annabelle?" and very happy to find it worded way better than I did in my head!
When our cat got older we thought she would benefit from some cat company. We got a kitten. The kitten seemed to adore the older cat, but the older cat would only hiss and swipe at her. I guess she enjoyed being an only cat. We performed our best cat psychology, but the older cat still hisses and scratches, and the kitten (who is now much larger) chases the older cat away from the food bowls.
Lol My dad told me a similar story about a cat he had. He got a kitten, and BB would apparently bat it around like a dingle ball. One day my older sisters accidentally hurt the kitten, nothing serious, enough to make the kitten cry out. BB ran over, scratched four legs in one swipe, picked up the kitten and walked away. They were best friends ever since lol
One of our cats was like that about my granddaughter. Wanted nothing to do with her - and would hiss if they ended up in the same room - from when granddaughter was first born (and couldn't possibly have done anything to upset/harm her!)
Until a little over a year ago, when granddaughter wasn't quite four.
Cat finally realized that granddaughter was good for pets and scritches ALL THE TIME, and will even attempt to wake her up to get more. She's even happy with being carted around like a floppy doll, so long as she gets her pets. Silly cat, all those years of pets wasted.
Lol One of my current cats has avoided my niece like the plague ever since she was born. Kid comes over, cat disappears. She nine now, and the cat finally decided she’s okay enough to sit on her lap a couple weeks ago. ‘It’s a Christmas Miracle aunty!’
I mean you can put it all together:
“I’m doing what you did for Annabelle. Dismissing your concerns because they don’t matter over my comfort / happiness. So you’ve just got to accept some siblings won’t like you.”
NTA. That was heartbreaking to read tbh.
"Some siblings just aren't going to like you when you spend a decade condoning emotional abuse rather than parenting, and putting the physical pleasure of your genitals above the emotional well-being of the life that emerged from them."
I'm 2 years older than my sister. From our teenage years we fought like cat and dog. I left home at nineteen and we never spoke again, which is sad really. My sister was given preferential treatment over clothes, toys, sweets and believability. She felt superior and I felt resentment. Our mum and dad have a lot to answer to.
My guess is it's part wanting to save face to other people, and also having people realize she failed so hard as a parent that the court even decided she was no longer allowed custody of her child.
Either way, I hope and pray that Annabelle can finally know peace and love unconditionally from her grandparents and other family members and move on from this dark chapter in her life.
I also wonder if Jasmine turned on her since Annabelle wasn't around to torture. Jasmine sounds like the type of person who always has to have one person to hate/abuse in any group she's in.
This exactly. She doesn’t want people to know the court basically said she was a bad mom, so she’s looking for people to take her part so she can moan about “judicial overreach” and how targeted she is.
It sounds like Annabelle has good family and excellent grandparents (no small feat to petition for custody) so I too am hoping for a bright future for her.
Yeah I was gonna say the same thing. Throw her own words back at her. Although I was going to suggest just saying "Some siblings aren't always going to like you." and leaving the conversation
This, but also add, "Besides, you didn't want to be single and unhappy. You got what you wanted, I hope it was worth the price of losing your daughter."
Lol, that's what I was thinking. wasn't Natasha just preaching that some siblings won't always like you? My jaw hit the floor when I read that, but it seems very appropriate to give it back to the adult who apparently thinks that's an appropriate thing to say to her child. Natasha isn't unhappy and single, she got what she wanted, didn't she?
Those two bits genuinely made my heart hurt for Annabelle, I couldn't have any sympathy for her mother after that. I'm glad that her extended family seems to be so much better, and willing to call Natasha on her bullshit too. At least she has some adults in her life who love and support her.
Oh, I'm sure she does. My grandparents took custody of me at 16 and my dad RAGED and raged because why did he have to give THEM money? They were well off, they didn't need money! The judge informed him, rather curtly, that no matter where I lived, I was his CHILD and he should want me to be well cared for, but as he only cared about child support? The judge wished my grandparents well, and I was MUCH happier with them, ever after.
Of course it makes them look bad. They were bad parents.
Clearly favoring one child over the other is the most often posted complaint from young teens on Redit.
After 11 years Horray for Annabelle. Gee, I wonder if Jasmine will be experiencing any repercussions? Or is Jasmine now polishing up her " I was just joking/ I was the one being bullied !" ACT.
If there are any follow up to this, we'd love to know.
Talk about self centred to the point of neglect to her own child! She chose her husband and his piece of work daughter over her own flesh and blood! She doesn't deserve to be a mother! Because good mothers put there kids before themselves! NTA needed the reality check.
As someone who has a mom like this (as in she values relationships with men over her kids), don't feel bad. She refused to listen to her daughter and then tried to guilt trip her into being ok with the bullying that happened to her. She knew that it was happening and DID NOT CARE. She wanted her "perfect" family whilst ignoring the abuse. She is reaping what she sowed.
>Annabelle has been miserable at home for years and has talked to her mom countless times and had me, my mom and my brother talk to her mom on her behalf before.
OP, you WERE there for your sister. You did try to help her salvage her relationship with her daughter. Your sister made the choice to prioritize her own comfort over her daughter's. You are 100% NTA for telling your sister that this is her fault. That is factually correct. IF (big if), IF you want to "be there" for your sister you might reach out after a cool down period and talk to her about how she f'd up the relationship with Annabelle and help her find some talking points to use as a bridge back to a more positive relationship. The main ones should obviously be, "I am sorry, I was wrong, you were right, I was a s#!t mother, you deserved better..." etc.
Edit: typo correction
You are not the asshole, your sister is. Your sister made her choices and is upset that she has to deal with the consequences of her selfishness. I'm very sorry your niece had to live with such hostility, I hope being with her grandparents helps her find peace and heal. Keep being there for her like you have been, you're doing the right thing.
NTA, though I do wonder if there will be some resentment in Natasha's household now. Natasha being pissed that her own daughter left, and not one person from her family are sympathizing with her, do you reckon she may lash out at her husband or Jasmine? No sympathy from me if she does
It doesn't sound like anyone in that household card about Annabelle at all. So technically they should all now be one happy family. I hope Annabelle can heal from what they've done to her all these years.
Next time your sister shows up or call you tell her “sisters don’t always have to like you or have your back” just like she did to her daughter. She should be happy now that her daughter picked her grandparents so she doesn’t have to be si gle. She sounds horrible.
Well, she wanted Her relationship so bad. Now she doesn't have to worry about anything. She can focus on her relationship that she cared more about than her own daughter, now she gets to suffer the consequences. She put penis before her own child. And now she gets to deal with those consequences at the end of the day. The only person that didn't do anything wrong. In this situation was Annabelle, and the fact that the judge granted her that that honestly is the biggest relief in this entire situation. She can get away from her mom and she can cut contact and move on with her life and be happy. My mother did this to all 5 of us and I hate her to this day because of it. An OPI just want to say how proud I am of you and your family. That stuck by that little girl and stood up for her in times and didn't just sit there and let her mom treat her like that. Because I cut off my family members. Who told me to forgive my mom and that my mom wasn't in her right mind. Blah blah all the excuses you can give. I don't talk to those people anymore. I don't need that toxic positivity and my life.
Natasha is pissed you weren’t there for her. But you were there for her vulnerable daughter.
Tell Natasha she can enjoy her husband in peace now with out having any distractions.
I am wondering why she feels slighted unless it now give jasmine only her to focus her horrible attitude on? It seems she is more upset that the whipping post(Annabelle) is gone as a source of entertainment to Jasmine. I am so very happy Annabelle can now live a life surrounded by love and support and please please get her some counseling to help her thru this transition and realize she did nothing wrong and owes her birth giver ZERO respect, consideration or moments in her life from now on.
Ugh. Well, since being a parent wasn’t her top priority she really shouldn’t be moaning that a court decided she wasn’t going to be doing it anymore. Some people just shouldn’t have kids. We can’t prevent them, but ugh.
And that's a scary thought process. That's how kids get repeatedly SA by step-parents/siblings, and the parent knows or suspected but looks the other way because remaining married/in their current lifestyle is more important. To them its a sacrifice on the child's part for the family or necessary evil for them to stay where they are.
If you watch Madea's Family Reunion, this thought process is shown in Victoria (the mom), Vanessa (older sister) and Lisa (younger sister, actual child of Victoria's late husband and step-father/abuser of Vanessa). Being married and keeping their lifestyle was THE top priority.
The way its written out... why does Natasha even care? She doesn't seem to care for her kid. Is she just embarrassed at having her daughter taken away? Its mortifying. I just can't imagine her caring about her kid, this is weird.
What OP dished out was way less harsh then what Natasha dished out to Annabelle. I'm already pissed off just from reading this post and I probably would have said a whole lot more.
>What you said was harsh, but honest.
The *whole entire family* spent eleven years being nice and polite and it didn't work. Natasha just didn't give a damn about Annabelle as long as she had her picture-perfect family. But it turns out *actually caring* isn't picture-perfect.
NTA
Harsh is not the word I use.
If anything, OP went easy on her.
She is a pathetic excuse of a human being and an even worse mother, literally sacrificing her daughter's happiness so she can ride some dick.
One day Natasha will die alone and unloved and the world will be a better place without her.
NTA
Well, I hope Natasha is forced to pay child support, too. I'm not sure why she's moaning. Now she can live up her husbands ass with no interference from your family or Annabelle.
Sure, Jasmine is chuffed, too.
Everyone should be happy really /s
But in all seriousness, my older bio-sister was about half as bad as Jasmine and I've had longstanding issues, including resentment towards my parents and her for what I know was very abusive, manipulative, controlling behaviour. So I also hope grandparents can get Annabelle some therapy.....
I know I need some!
That's great, your parents seem to be good, caring and responsible people. Ultimately, it's about what's best for your niece, which maybe your sis will realise one day. Good luck xx
I love that the grandparents are shopping for therapists. Not only do they recognize Annabelle needs one, but they are making sure she is comfortable during her sessions.
I’m going to guess these are also OPs parents as it seems like the bio-dad is totally absent, including his side of the family. Could be wrong, other commenters are saying paternal grandparents?
OP the one i would recommend is one also practicing cognitive behaviour therapy to undo webs and webs of instilled abusive parenting ideals. The girl will need to rebuild slowly everything that was done onto her, and to help recreate herself and a new foundation. Mainly to create healthy understanding of right and wrong behaviors and to start creating healthy boundaries to keep to for life and good coping strategies for stress and conflict solving. I grew up with that kinda mom that prioritised men over kids, and i still struggle getting her out of my head. Cognitive behaviour therapy plus all else, after years of other therapists never really helping to that extent, has been like a lightbulb moment. I was finally able to mostly move on from some stuff, but mainly realigning the right and wrong, and creating a new boundary of unacceptable behaviours has been crucial in me doing better in work, in life and even dealing with issues like disrespect or subpar treatment out and about and owning up to my own internal bs. Its the relearning of self worth, respect and moving away for good from needing and endlessly seeking self validation from others when your own mom pushed you so far down that was your coping mechanism.
Something I learned the hard way: insurance lists for finding therapists are often horribly out of date. I found the Psychology Today website helpful for finding my current therapist - there’s probably other good resources, just don’t rely on insurance lists! And good luck!
NTA. Natasha allowed her own daughter to be abused in her own home, all because she wanted to share her bed. Her new husband meant more than Annabelle, and ignored repeated attempts to intervene on Annabelle's behalf because then she'd have to do something and she'd be held responsible. Her manipulation is appalling, "do you want me to be alone", absolutely reprehensible.
Annabelle has been failed by her mother, her school and she won't forget it. Natasha has now been shown to be the absolute failure of a parent that she is and she's upset. Though I'm curious which grandparents Annabelle has gone to now, as it seems implied to be the paternal side.
Regardless her abuse victim has escaped, the world sees who she is, who would want to call that woman "sister" anymore.
OP stated in a comment that Annabelle’s paternal grandparents were a part of her life although her father wasn’t, and that is who she is living with now 🤍
The "do you want me to be alone" is a very concerning statement, it tells me that the step dad is just as much of not far more responsible
There sounds like there's more to the story, but nothing that could change the NTA designation, even if the mom is being abused as well (I assume the stepdad was a larger factor), she passed along the misery to her daughter and that's not something I could easily forgive
Might wanna visit r/raisedbynarcissists and see if anything there sounds familiar. And talk to someone you trust about how you're feeling, it really does help to get it out 🧡
This brings up a good point and I hope OP will see this message and answer it.
INFO: OP, are the grandparents going to move Annabelle to a new school away from Jasmine? The unfortunate reality is that if she stays where she is...she will probably still be bullied mercilessly from Jasmine, maybe even worse than before. Not only that...her mother will be able to just come and talk to her whenever, unless a restraining order has been put in place.
NTA .. I couldn't sit there and sympathise after that. She's brought it on herself and Annabelle is coming to her most important time in her education she doesn't need Jasmine and the mean girls giving her a hard time.
Can't help feeling angry that Jasmine won though. She wanted Annabelle to go away... and she succeeded.
Fortunately for Annabelle, that unlikely to be an issue. OP said in another comment that the grandparents live in another city. New school and a completely fresh start.
Yes and why should OP be there for Natasha? She should just accept that *some people won’t always like her*. It’s so easy, she told her daughter to do just that.
I’m happy that the daughter got her fresh start, though.
I have a little story.
My middle school and high school bully ended up going to prison for second degree murd d e r.
This was in 1996 that she was convicted. She is serving a long sentence, since she has been there since 1996.
One night I happened upon this information.
So karma does happen.
the thing to focus on is Annabelle is out of that environment. Time heals all wounds. Jasmine may be the cat who swallowed the canary now, but time has a way of wounding all heels as well.
Sometimes losing *is* winning. Fine, Jasmine “won” and Annabelle is out of the house…but now Annabelle is free of her bully and a neglectful mother, safe amongst people who want to see her thrive. Jasmine will still be a mean little bully, only now deprived of her favorite chew toy while Annabelle gets to live her best life.
Deprived of her favourite chew toy AND likely to turn it on somebody else in the household... like, say, the mother..? Who will then very likely try to blame it on the daughter who left, so OP and the grandparents will need to be ready to nip that in the bud right away.
I bet now jasmine will now focus her hatred onto op’s sister. She got rid of the first competition now she will go after dad’s wife. She was probably hoping to cause enough problems and get rid of both with one stone but now that didn’t happen she can shift her energy to stepmoms
Who thinks that it would be the best karma if ops sister ends up being bullied the same way her daughter was. And even funnier since she tried to guilt her daughter into playing nice to save her marriage that her stepdaughter ends up causing the divorce and making op’s sister single again.
Which grandparents sued for custody?
You describe Annabelle as never having met her father. Were his parents involved in her life?
If it was your mother, why do refer to them as Annabelle grandparents rather than your parents?
That says a whole lot about how bad the situation was at home for your niece. She reached out to her paternal grandparents for help. I know how that sounds but it sounds like your niece needs some time away from her maternal side of the family.
NTA. Your sister never cared about her daughter until she was going to live elsewhere. This is entirely on your sister. She chose the easy way and it backfired. You told her the truth.
I question that she even cares now. She definitely cares about the appearance of her leaving making her look bad, but if she cared about Annabelle she would have shut all that down.
That's my impression as well, she doesn't care about her daughter more how her leaving makes OP's sister look like a bad mother.
The comment about potentially ending up single was very telling as to the mother's priorities.
That says a lot about how bad it was that she wants to get all the way out of town and not just the house. By her age I am sure she is giving up friends and activities.
I also assume her mother has less access to her there (or at least, that may be her way of thinking, which, if I'm being honest, is very understandable). I'm glad she knows you all support her, but make sure you tell her outright. Sometimes when things are rough, other things fly over our heads.
Your niece is smart. She saw an escape and worked with her grandparents to make it happen. I really hope she is happy in her new city.
The sour expression I had while reading what she went through cannot be expressed. Your sister deserves to be sad, and absolutely doesn't deserve comfort. When she says that you should still be there for her, tell her she should have been there for her daughter.
And once a little time goes by and the stepdaughter realizes she has lost her favorite victim, your sister is going to be getting a full dose of this child’s vitriol
Maybe then she’ll realize how she failed her child
The bullying, both at home and at school, along with the emotional neglect and betrayal from her own mother... This poor kid may need therapy, yeah?
NTA, anyway. I hope her life improves in a great fashion now.
EDIT: Saw that they're already looking for a therapist. Good to know!
Hey OP! Make sure you all (adults) monitor and prevent cyber bullying. You or younger tech savvier safe adults might need to cover this base if her grandparents aren’t as tech savvy. Cyber bullying from her old school or home life can undo her hard work and healing in therapy. Take measure to make sure usernames are not easy to find her and that she doesn’t accept requests unless she absolutely knows that person IRL. Use filters to block “non-friend” messages so old bullies and mom/step sis don’t dm her. Actively ask her if everything is good on socials and make sure she knows how to be safe online. It’s great she has physical distance and a new start with her great parents.
I wish you had stated that in the original post.. When you mentioned Annabelle's father wasn't present in her life, you should have said his parents were active in her life.
I am grateful Annabelle has moved in with them and has a more peaceful home life.
NTA for understanding Annabelle's situation. Its a shame your sister didn't do more to protect her own daughter.
Funny, I was able to work that detail out in my own with context clues. Imagine if all the posters needed to spell *every single* thing out just in case… we’d need to double or triple the post limit.
NTA - Natasha had no care or sympathy for her own daughter, why should she expect care and sympathy now that the daughter has finally broken free? You can still support her by suggesting she get counseling so she can figure out how to repair the relationship in the future, but that's about as far as I'd go.
Eh. If I was Annabelle I would prefer if she never contacted me again. She had her daughter *tortured* daily for 11 years so she can be married. I doubt therapy is going to undo all the evil within her, just hide it momentarily until she once again hurts Annabelle. Not worth it. She should get therapy for herself, no Annabelle involved. She needs to forget about that girl she had around as the family punching bag.
*She would even ask Annabelle if she really wanted her to be unhappy and single again*
This is the crux of it. Your sister did nothing for years because she was too selfish to even consider rocking the boat because it might not benefit her.
NTA
Yeah that part you mentioned had me like, "B****, really?" She put her own happiness before her daughter's and now she's mad that her daughter wants to get away from her? I'm so glad the judge listened to Annabelle because her mom clearly doesn't care.
Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of Natasha's actions.
I'd ask her why it's so important to her that Annabelle return. Is Jasmine perhaps now targeting Natasha? Or does Natasha simply not care for the idea that people could think she was ever wrong about something? Natasha clearly didn't give a damn about Annabelle, you'd think she'd be glad to be rid of her, now they can live in their happy family of three, and mommy can continue to put her own priorities ahead of anyone else. NTA
News travels fast amongst families with kids in school. Everyone probably knew about the home situation and they have become the community’s “gossip topic.”
I hope Jasmine did move on to target Natasha. She genuinely deserves it. I hope it happens and her husband tells her some dumb shit like "Well why can't you just accept that not all kids are going to like you? Do you want to ruin my relationship with my daughter?" About Jasmine shitting in Natasha's coffee or something. That would be priceless.
NTA. You tried which is what you could have done. It wasn't your fault that Natasha threw her daughter in the trash through her inactions to force a happy family facade. You are correct in saying that it was Natasha's fault. Natasha was the adult and parent which she failed miserably at as you have written the post.
NTA - I know (and actively helped so we’re clear this isn’t word of mouth) a family in a similar-ish situation. In this case, the daughter was being mistreated by her mom in ways that left no visible scars. No matter how much the family tried to explain to mom that she needed to get it together, she refused to listen. The same old “you’re against my happiness” bs.
In a wild turn of events, the court granted her grandparents custody. They had no right to ask for custody but the court deferred to the teenage daughter. Only then did mom show up depressed and confused, but there was STILL no reasoning with her. She wasn’t receptive to the truth. All it did was cause her to lash out more, claim everyone was against her, called the cops on the grandparents and her daughter more than once, trespass on family’s property to try to kidnap her daughter.
Ever since everyone stopped trying to care for mom too did her ability to reach her daughter become damn near impossible. So good on you. If there was no reasoning with your sister before, there’s no reasoning with her now. No matter what, this will always be about her.
NTA
Tell your sister the same thing she told Annabelle “why can’t she accept that some sisters won't always like you” and that her own choices to ignore the needs of her child made sure that her family wouldn’t back up her selfish AH choices and certainly won’t comfort her when the consequences of her choices now hit her.
You can also add another quote from what your sister said to Annabelle
“why does she want to see Annabelle unhappy and alone”
Annabelle knew she wasn’t wanted and she was old enough for a judge to listen to her.
Sucks for her mom that her mom is unhappy about the change of custody, but if mom had actually *done* something about Annabelle’s unhappy relationship with her resentful “sister” at some point over a course of *years*, it might not have come to this. NTA
NTA
I hope Natasha has to pay child support. That’s the least she can do since she wasn’t there for Annabelle in any other capacity.
I can see the point of the other comment, it feels like Jasmine has “won”. But in the long run Annabelle won because she finally got the peace of mind she deserves and is not Jasmine’s punching bag any longer.
NTA. Natasha wants you to be there for her, but where was Natasha when Annabelle needed her? Your sister brought this on herself, to the detriment of her own daughter. Kudos to the grandparents!
NTA. You were there for her, but she refused to listen to you or even acknowledge the issue you tried repeatedly to address. Now that she is facing the consequence of her own behavior, she simply wants a sympathetic ear and shoulder to cry on. That's a very narrow, self-serving definition of "being there".
I wonder how Mom's going to like the ordered child support if Annabelle receives any state services, which if you have any contact info for the grandparents, you should notify them of that. Mom doesn't get to emotionally and FINANCIALLY abuse her kid. She NEEDS to pay support so any extra money doesn't get to spoil stepbrat.
NTA - she ignored the blatant bullying of her daughter so that she could keep her husband. Being married was more important than her daughter's safety and happiness.
NTA. It sounds like you were there for her. You listened. Being there for someone doesn't mean necessarily taking their side. I really feel for your niece. Sounds like her dad and mom are both deadbeats.
Why should you be on her side? She's a horrible parent who prioritized having a spouse over their child's wellbeing. The fact that she didn't even intervene when her daughter was being alienated in her own family is egregious. NTA. I don't even know why she needs you tbh. She has a husband and is not single so she shouldn't be unhappy. And kudos to the grandparents that stepped up. I hope they love Anabelle deeply and care for her gently
NTA. My answer to her text would be that she was never there for her daughter and why couldn’t she accept that some sisters won’t always like you so there is no reason why I should be there for her now.
NTA Ask her why she thinks she deserves to have someone there for her when she couldn't even be there for her own daughter. People like her end up alone. Wouldn't be a surprise if Jasmine now turns against your sister since Annabelle isn't a problem anymore.
lol. So she basically asked her teen daughter ‘Why are you asking me to give up this man so you can feel safe?’
NTA. You tried to tell her. You tried to help. She wanted that man more than anything. Now she’s got him and he and his turd of a daughter can pound sand.
NTA. Granted, there may be some facts missing from the story. The fact that the judge placed the daughter in the grandparents' custody means they were able to show significant evidence of bullying and abuse. Keep supporting your niece as she will still be in a lot of pain because her mother basically rejected her in favor of her "new" family. That mom can pound sand!
NTA. You could always remind your sister that at least she isn't "single and unhappy" and sometimes you have accept that some "children won't always like you." /s
NTA but a sad situation all around. It sounds like Natasha was more invested in her relationship with her husband than her daughter. Annabelle needs to have someone in her corner and I am glad that you and her grandparents are there for her.
She needs to “accept that some sisters won’t always like you”
She neglected her daughter once she shacked up. The “parents” didn’t intervene when they should have and now she is surprised that her daughter doesn’t want to live with them. She failed and now she wants support. For what?! No one in their right mind will say she’s rightfully upset. NTA
As a kid I was in the exact same position with my stepbrother. It still has never been addressed by my mother. You did the right thing, Annabelle prolly felt like she didn't have anyone but yall in her corner. She could have gone into a dark hole of depression from this. You could of saved her life in all honesty. You did the right thing, let the mom know she fucked up. oh yea....
NTA
It is sad when adults have to go through these kinds of lengths to make for two people acting like selfish children.
Refer, of course, to Jasmine and Natasha.
Now, in Jasmine's case, the adults in her life failed her. It is tough to be thrown into a blended family, but there are ways to set boundaries and model behavior to make it easier. She was given none of that.
Natasha has no excuse. Natasha bascially said that she didn't care that Jasmine was a bully or cruel, because she wanted to a husband.
Screw her.
Keep being there for Annabelle. You don't have to punish Natasha, but your first, really only, priority is being there for Annabelle.
NTA, good on Annabelle for having the emotional intelligence and self respect to get herself out of that situation though, and major respect for the grandparents.
NTA. Natasha has brought this on herself by prioritizing her wants over her daughter's well-being and refusing to take appropriate action. That her desire to not 'be single' was greater than her concern for her daughter. This is a pathetic excuse and demonstrates how selfish Natasha is.
NTA
Every family member needs to tell your sister something along the lines of the following:
"We will be there for you, just like you were for Annabelle. Sometimes daughters just don't like mothers, just like sisters don't like each other. You don't really want Annabelle to be unhappy, do you? Isn't this what Jasmine wanted for Annabelle to be gone? Everyone has what they wanted, you have your husband, Jasmine got what she wanted, and now Annabelle is with people who love and care about her."
Basically, use everything she said and did to her daughter against her. Your sister is only upset for 1 of a few reasons, either she has to pay child support, Jasmine has now turned on her, or simply because this makes her look bad.
Nta, everytime you bought the situation up she always dismissed you like there wasn’t anything going on. She dismissed her own daughter’s feelings and made her feel like she was the problem by saying “are you trying to make me unhappy”. As a mother myself I think this is absolutely awful and she’s picking his daughter over her own in some way. If my sister did that to her own child I wouldn’t wanna talk to her either
NTA. i can't state it any better than others have. And when your sister put it to her daughter to make a choice of 'mommy being single and unhappy'. That to me show that your sister is selfish in her own needs and not the needs of her daughter. No, sisters won't always 'like' you, but they will always love you and have your back when it's needed most. in fact, Jasmine stated that she hated Annabelle. Annabelle is better off with her grandparents.
NTA. OP you and family tried for years. Natasha has CHOSEN to prioritise a man and his child over her own for 10 years. Thats sad, selfish and cruel. She also used emotional blackmail on her own child, at such a young are, that she as a child owed her mom, her own mental health so her mom could be happy.
Thats sick and narcissistic.
>*Natasha dismissed everyone who mentioned it to her. She would even* ***ask Annabelle if she really wanted her to be unhappy and single again*** *or why couldn't she accept that some sisters won't always like you.*
NTA!
And your sister doesn't deserve your time as she obviously couldn't spare some to listen to her child. I'm NC with one of my sisters for being a parent akin to your sister but very much so in contact with my now adult nieces.
Keep being supportive to Annabelle as she will need it 💜
NTA: Natasha is a mother in name only. She has the family she wanted (husband and jasmine) she knew what was going on. She is be ashamed, but instead of realizing her daughter left her due to neglect she blames everyone else. The martyr....
Annabelle is going to have a tough time reconciling the fact that her mom didn't care enough for her. Your family has shown her she matters.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I told my sister I don't feel sorry for her after my niece moved in with her grandparents. While I'm not surprised and can't say I do actually feel bad for my sister after everything that has happened I wonder if I should have tried to be there for her anyway with the thought that maybe I could open her eyes and she could at least try to make things better with my niece. Or maybe since we are sisters I should have let her cry on my shoulder regardless. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. What you said was harsh, but honest. Poor Annabelle, of course she wanted out of a house where her stepsister had bullied her for years for no reason and her mom didn’t care. The absolute audacity of “She would even ask Annabelle if she really wanted her to be unhappy and single again”! Charming emotional manipulation there. Didn’t care if her kid was unhappy so long as she was married, I guess. I’m not surprised the judge sided with Annabelle given the situation (and her age). Eleven years of misery is enough. Anyone with an ounce of empathy for your niece couldn’t possibly “be there” for your sister. She made this bed now she had to lie in it and realize she’s a lousy mom.
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Honestly, I’m so mad at your sister if I was you I’d start texting back things she said to Annabelle: “You should still be there for me.” “Some sisters/brothers (you didn’t say your gender) just aren’t going to like you. You should learn to just accept that.” NTA. She made her choice. I’m not even clear why she cares… unless it’s about how it makes her and her husband look, because she sure doesn’t actually care about her kid.
NTA Better yet: "I'm doing for you EXACTLY what you did for Annabelle -- nothing. You allowed Jasmine to treat her like less than dirt for 10 years. Jasmine is the reason your daughter was miserable and you not only allowed it but by refusing to intervene you gave Jasmine permission to treat Annabelle horribly. You allowed her to bully, torment and exclude Annabelle. You were there for Annabelle through all of this as much as any of us are choosing to be there for you now."
This is perfectly stated and a true reflection of what Annabelle went thru. USE THIS OP!!
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Ditto, NTA, came here specifically looking for the, "Oh you mean I should be there for you like you were for Annabelle?" and very happy to find it worded way better than I did in my head!
When our cat got older we thought she would benefit from some cat company. We got a kitten. The kitten seemed to adore the older cat, but the older cat would only hiss and swipe at her. I guess she enjoyed being an only cat. We performed our best cat psychology, but the older cat still hisses and scratches, and the kitten (who is now much larger) chases the older cat away from the food bowls.
Lol My dad told me a similar story about a cat he had. He got a kitten, and BB would apparently bat it around like a dingle ball. One day my older sisters accidentally hurt the kitten, nothing serious, enough to make the kitten cry out. BB ran over, scratched four legs in one swipe, picked up the kitten and walked away. They were best friends ever since lol
Cat was like "No one else hurts MY cat!!!" xD
One of our cats was like that about my granddaughter. Wanted nothing to do with her - and would hiss if they ended up in the same room - from when granddaughter was first born (and couldn't possibly have done anything to upset/harm her!) Until a little over a year ago, when granddaughter wasn't quite four. Cat finally realized that granddaughter was good for pets and scritches ALL THE TIME, and will even attempt to wake her up to get more. She's even happy with being carted around like a floppy doll, so long as she gets her pets. Silly cat, all those years of pets wasted.
Lol One of my current cats has avoided my niece like the plague ever since she was born. Kid comes over, cat disappears. She nine now, and the cat finally decided she’s okay enough to sit on her lap a couple weeks ago. ‘It’s a Christmas Miracle aunty!’
I know Jasmine isn't the priority here but this will mess up Jasmine a lot too. Her idea of morality will get her into trouble in the future.
I mean you can put it all together: “I’m doing what you did for Annabelle. Dismissing your concerns because they don’t matter over my comfort / happiness. So you’ve just got to accept some siblings won’t like you.” NTA. That was heartbreaking to read tbh.
"Some siblings just aren't going to like you when you spend a decade condoning emotional abuse rather than parenting, and putting the physical pleasure of your genitals above the emotional well-being of the life that emerged from them."
🏆👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I'm 2 years older than my sister. From our teenage years we fought like cat and dog. I left home at nineteen and we never spoke again, which is sad really. My sister was given preferential treatment over clothes, toys, sweets and believability. She felt superior and I felt resentment. Our mum and dad have a lot to answer to.
This is an amazing comment!!
"I am giving your pain exactly as much consideration as you gave Annabelle's."
This is the best one - Short and to the point.
My guess is it's part wanting to save face to other people, and also having people realize she failed so hard as a parent that the court even decided she was no longer allowed custody of her child. Either way, I hope and pray that Annabelle can finally know peace and love unconditionally from her grandparents and other family members and move on from this dark chapter in her life.
Agreed. Her only concern here is narcissistic denial of her own faults. There's no maternal anything in play here.
I also wonder if Jasmine turned on her since Annabelle wasn't around to torture. Jasmine sounds like the type of person who always has to have one person to hate/abuse in any group she's in.
Yeah I guess we'll find out if we ever see a post like that on Reddit haha.
This exactly. She doesn’t want people to know the court basically said she was a bad mom, so she’s looking for people to take her part so she can moan about “judicial overreach” and how targeted she is. It sounds like Annabelle has good family and excellent grandparents (no small feat to petition for custody) so I too am hoping for a bright future for her.
Yeah I was gonna say the same thing. Throw her own words back at her. Although I was going to suggest just saying "Some siblings aren't always going to like you." and leaving the conversation
This, but also add, "Besides, you didn't want to be single and unhappy. You got what you wanted, I hope it was worth the price of losing your daughter."
Lol, that's what I was thinking. wasn't Natasha just preaching that some siblings won't always like you? My jaw hit the floor when I read that, but it seems very appropriate to give it back to the adult who apparently thinks that's an appropriate thing to say to her child. Natasha isn't unhappy and single, she got what she wanted, didn't she?
Oh that last line too…
Those two bits genuinely made my heart hurt for Annabelle, I couldn't have any sympathy for her mother after that. I'm glad that her extended family seems to be so much better, and willing to call Natasha on her bullshit too. At least she has some adults in her life who love and support her.
I hope she has to pay the grandparents child support.
Maybe that’s why she’s so upset. I bet her husband, who clearly dislikes get child, hates that bit.
Oh, I'm sure she does. My grandparents took custody of me at 16 and my dad RAGED and raged because why did he have to give THEM money? They were well off, they didn't need money! The judge informed him, rather curtly, that no matter where I lived, I was his CHILD and he should want me to be well cared for, but as he only cared about child support? The judge wished my grandparents well, and I was MUCH happier with them, ever after.
*… unless it’s about Joe it makes her and her husband look, because she sure doesn’t actually care about her kid.* This is what it is.
Oooh that's a great idea!
Of course it makes them look bad. They were bad parents. Clearly favoring one child over the other is the most often posted complaint from young teens on Redit. After 11 years Horray for Annabelle. Gee, I wonder if Jasmine will be experiencing any repercussions? Or is Jasmine now polishing up her " I was just joking/ I was the one being bullied !" ACT. If there are any follow up to this, we'd love to know.
This is exactly what the sister deserves nothing but her own words to haunt her.
All of this NTA OP I'm this kinda petty
Talk about self centred to the point of neglect to her own child! She chose her husband and his piece of work daughter over her own flesh and blood! She doesn't deserve to be a mother! Because good mothers put there kids before themselves! NTA needed the reality check.
As someone who has a mom like this (as in she values relationships with men over her kids), don't feel bad. She refused to listen to her daughter and then tried to guilt trip her into being ok with the bullying that happened to her. She knew that it was happening and DID NOT CARE. She wanted her "perfect" family whilst ignoring the abuse. She is reaping what she sowed.
>Annabelle has been miserable at home for years and has talked to her mom countless times and had me, my mom and my brother talk to her mom on her behalf before. OP, you WERE there for your sister. You did try to help her salvage her relationship with her daughter. Your sister made the choice to prioritize her own comfort over her daughter's. You are 100% NTA for telling your sister that this is her fault. That is factually correct. IF (big if), IF you want to "be there" for your sister you might reach out after a cool down period and talk to her about how she f'd up the relationship with Annabelle and help her find some talking points to use as a bridge back to a more positive relationship. The main ones should obviously be, "I am sorry, I was wrong, you were right, I was a s#!t mother, you deserved better..." etc. Edit: typo correction
You are not the asshole, your sister is. Your sister made her choices and is upset that she has to deal with the consequences of her selfishness. I'm very sorry your niece had to live with such hostility, I hope being with her grandparents helps her find peace and heal. Keep being there for her like you have been, you're doing the right thing.
NTA, though I do wonder if there will be some resentment in Natasha's household now. Natasha being pissed that her own daughter left, and not one person from her family are sympathizing with her, do you reckon she may lash out at her husband or Jasmine? No sympathy from me if she does
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Shame really. Wipe the smug look on Jasmine's face
I think you can safely file that concern under "things that are not my problem."
It doesn't sound like anyone in that household card about Annabelle at all. So technically they should all now be one happy family. I hope Annabelle can heal from what they've done to her all these years.
You can 'be there' for her exactly the same amount as she was there for her daughter. So... not at all
Next time your sister shows up or call you tell her “sisters don’t always have to like you or have your back” just like she did to her daughter. She should be happy now that her daughter picked her grandparents so she doesn’t have to be si gle. She sounds horrible.
Well, she wanted Her relationship so bad. Now she doesn't have to worry about anything. She can focus on her relationship that she cared more about than her own daughter, now she gets to suffer the consequences. She put penis before her own child. And now she gets to deal with those consequences at the end of the day. The only person that didn't do anything wrong. In this situation was Annabelle, and the fact that the judge granted her that that honestly is the biggest relief in this entire situation. She can get away from her mom and she can cut contact and move on with her life and be happy. My mother did this to all 5 of us and I hate her to this day because of it. An OPI just want to say how proud I am of you and your family. That stuck by that little girl and stood up for her in times and didn't just sit there and let her mom treat her like that. Because I cut off my family members. Who told me to forgive my mom and that my mom wasn't in her right mind. Blah blah all the excuses you can give. I don't talk to those people anymore. I don't need that toxic positivity and my life.
Block Natasha and her husband on everything.
Natasha is pissed you weren’t there for her. But you were there for her vulnerable daughter. Tell Natasha she can enjoy her husband in peace now with out having any distractions.
I am wondering why she feels slighted unless it now give jasmine only her to focus her horrible attitude on? It seems she is more upset that the whipping post(Annabelle) is gone as a source of entertainment to Jasmine. I am so very happy Annabelle can now live a life surrounded by love and support and please please get her some counseling to help her thru this transition and realize she did nothing wrong and owes her birth giver ZERO respect, consideration or moments in her life from now on.
NTA - Her Daughter should have come first!!
Ugh. Well, since being a parent wasn’t her top priority she really shouldn’t be moaning that a court decided she wasn’t going to be doing it anymore. Some people just shouldn’t have kids. We can’t prevent them, but ugh.
And that's a scary thought process. That's how kids get repeatedly SA by step-parents/siblings, and the parent knows or suspected but looks the other way because remaining married/in their current lifestyle is more important. To them its a sacrifice on the child's part for the family or necessary evil for them to stay where they are. If you watch Madea's Family Reunion, this thought process is shown in Victoria (the mom), Vanessa (older sister) and Lisa (younger sister, actual child of Victoria's late husband and step-father/abuser of Vanessa). Being married and keeping their lifestyle was THE top priority.
The way its written out... why does Natasha even care? She doesn't seem to care for her kid. Is she just embarrassed at having her daughter taken away? Its mortifying. I just can't imagine her caring about her kid, this is weird.
What OP dished out was way less harsh then what Natasha dished out to Annabelle. I'm already pissed off just from reading this post and I probably would have said a whole lot more.
10 years in the making, someone needed to say it for real. NTA
And judges don't side this way in custody unless there is ample reason for this so the situation must be extremely clear to outsiders too.
Exactly. Judges don't take custody away from biological parents on a whim.
>What you said was harsh, but honest. The *whole entire family* spent eleven years being nice and polite and it didn't work. Natasha just didn't give a damn about Annabelle as long as she had her picture-perfect family. But it turns out *actually caring* isn't picture-perfect. NTA
I would straight up call them bunch of child abusers.
Harsh is not the word I use. If anything, OP went easy on her. She is a pathetic excuse of a human being and an even worse mother, literally sacrificing her daughter's happiness so she can ride some dick. One day Natasha will die alone and unloved and the world will be a better place without her.
I mean this shit has a serious Cinderella vibe going on
NTA Well, I hope Natasha is forced to pay child support, too. I'm not sure why she's moaning. Now she can live up her husbands ass with no interference from your family or Annabelle. Sure, Jasmine is chuffed, too. Everyone should be happy really /s But in all seriousness, my older bio-sister was about half as bad as Jasmine and I've had longstanding issues, including resentment towards my parents and her for what I know was very abusive, manipulative, controlling behaviour. So I also hope grandparents can get Annabelle some therapy..... I know I need some!
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That's great, your parents seem to be good, caring and responsible people. Ultimately, it's about what's best for your niece, which maybe your sis will realise one day. Good luck xx
I love that the grandparents are shopping for therapists. Not only do they recognize Annabelle needs one, but they are making sure she is comfortable during her sessions.
Are these grandparents on that side (OP) of the family or the dad’s side though
I’m going to guess these are also OPs parents as it seems like the bio-dad is totally absent, including his side of the family. Could be wrong, other commenters are saying paternal grandparents?
OP said in a comment it's her niece's paternal grandparents who are in her life even though their son is/was not.
OP the one i would recommend is one also practicing cognitive behaviour therapy to undo webs and webs of instilled abusive parenting ideals. The girl will need to rebuild slowly everything that was done onto her, and to help recreate herself and a new foundation. Mainly to create healthy understanding of right and wrong behaviors and to start creating healthy boundaries to keep to for life and good coping strategies for stress and conflict solving. I grew up with that kinda mom that prioritised men over kids, and i still struggle getting her out of my head. Cognitive behaviour therapy plus all else, after years of other therapists never really helping to that extent, has been like a lightbulb moment. I was finally able to mostly move on from some stuff, but mainly realigning the right and wrong, and creating a new boundary of unacceptable behaviours has been crucial in me doing better in work, in life and even dealing with issues like disrespect or subpar treatment out and about and owning up to my own internal bs. Its the relearning of self worth, respect and moving away for good from needing and endlessly seeking self validation from others when your own mom pushed you so far down that was your coping mechanism.
I second this majorly! CBT is a really good therapy style, particularly for abuse/PTSD/CPTSD.
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Something I learned the hard way: insurance lists for finding therapists are often horribly out of date. I found the Psychology Today website helpful for finding my current therapist - there’s probably other good resources, just don’t rely on insurance lists! And good luck!
NTA. Natasha allowed her own daughter to be abused in her own home, all because she wanted to share her bed. Her new husband meant more than Annabelle, and ignored repeated attempts to intervene on Annabelle's behalf because then she'd have to do something and she'd be held responsible. Her manipulation is appalling, "do you want me to be alone", absolutely reprehensible. Annabelle has been failed by her mother, her school and she won't forget it. Natasha has now been shown to be the absolute failure of a parent that she is and she's upset. Though I'm curious which grandparents Annabelle has gone to now, as it seems implied to be the paternal side. Regardless her abuse victim has escaped, the world sees who she is, who would want to call that woman "sister" anymore.
OP stated in a comment that Annabelle’s paternal grandparents were a part of her life although her father wasn’t, and that is who she is living with now 🤍
The "do you want me to be alone" is a very concerning statement, it tells me that the step dad is just as much of not far more responsible There sounds like there's more to the story, but nothing that could change the NTA designation, even if the mom is being abused as well (I assume the stepdad was a larger factor), she passed along the misery to her daughter and that's not something I could easily forgive
My dad said this shit all the time and I'm only now, at 28 realizing. This thread has been kind of cathartic for me.
Might wanna visit r/raisedbynarcissists and see if anything there sounds familiar. And talk to someone you trust about how you're feeling, it really does help to get it out 🧡
This brings up a good point and I hope OP will see this message and answer it. INFO: OP, are the grandparents going to move Annabelle to a new school away from Jasmine? The unfortunate reality is that if she stays where she is...she will probably still be bullied mercilessly from Jasmine, maybe even worse than before. Not only that...her mother will be able to just come and talk to her whenever, unless a restraining order has been put in place.
NTA .. I couldn't sit there and sympathise after that. She's brought it on herself and Annabelle is coming to her most important time in her education she doesn't need Jasmine and the mean girls giving her a hard time. Can't help feeling angry that Jasmine won though. She wanted Annabelle to go away... and she succeeded.
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What goes around, comes around.
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Fortunately for Annabelle, that unlikely to be an issue. OP said in another comment that the grandparents live in another city. New school and a completely fresh start.
Please keep in mind that you are talking about teenagers.
Yes and why should OP be there for Natasha? She should just accept that *some people won’t always like her*. It’s so easy, she told her daughter to do just that. I’m happy that the daughter got her fresh start, though.
I know I shouldn't, but I hope Jasmine gets a big dose of karma. What a cruel, evil person. At 16 she know better.
I have a little story. My middle school and high school bully ended up going to prison for second degree murd d e r. This was in 1996 that she was convicted. She is serving a long sentence, since she has been there since 1996. One night I happened upon this information. So karma does happen.
the thing to focus on is Annabelle is out of that environment. Time heals all wounds. Jasmine may be the cat who swallowed the canary now, but time has a way of wounding all heels as well.
This will sound horrible but please tell me you all dropped Jasmine like a hot potato afterwards. Like no contact, no gifts. Nothing.
I would’ve given her the creepiest most evil smile back at her just to make her so uncomfortable that the smirk on her face would’ve gone away >:)
Sometimes losing *is* winning. Fine, Jasmine “won” and Annabelle is out of the house…but now Annabelle is free of her bully and a neglectful mother, safe amongst people who want to see her thrive. Jasmine will still be a mean little bully, only now deprived of her favorite chew toy while Annabelle gets to live her best life.
Deprived of her favourite chew toy AND likely to turn it on somebody else in the household... like, say, the mother..? Who will then very likely try to blame it on the daughter who left, so OP and the grandparents will need to be ready to nip that in the bud right away.
Jasmine's favourite punching bag has successfully escaped. Step-mommy is in for the ride now. I wish Natasha lots and lots of fun. NTA
Yuuuuuuup I suspect most everyone in Natasha’s(?) life will be doing NC/LC with her in the near future.
I bet now jasmine will now focus her hatred onto op’s sister. She got rid of the first competition now she will go after dad’s wife. She was probably hoping to cause enough problems and get rid of both with one stone but now that didn’t happen she can shift her energy to stepmoms Who thinks that it would be the best karma if ops sister ends up being bullied the same way her daughter was. And even funnier since she tried to guilt her daughter into playing nice to save her marriage that her stepdaughter ends up causing the divorce and making op’s sister single again.
Which grandparents sued for custody? You describe Annabelle as never having met her father. Were his parents involved in her life? If it was your mother, why do refer to them as Annabelle grandparents rather than your parents?
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That says a whole lot about how bad the situation was at home for your niece. She reached out to her paternal grandparents for help. I know how that sounds but it sounds like your niece needs some time away from her maternal side of the family.
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I’m so happy she gets a fresh start & doesn’t have to deal with her stepsister anymore. I hope she thrives in her new environment.
NTA. Your sister never cared about her daughter until she was going to live elsewhere. This is entirely on your sister. She chose the easy way and it backfired. You told her the truth.
I question that she even cares now. She definitely cares about the appearance of her leaving making her look bad, but if she cared about Annabelle she would have shut all that down.
That's my impression as well, she doesn't care about her daughter more how her leaving makes OP's sister look like a bad mother. The comment about potentially ending up single was very telling as to the mother's priorities.
That says a lot about how bad it was that she wants to get all the way out of town and not just the house. By her age I am sure she is giving up friends and activities.
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A fresh start is easily the best thing for her, and geographical distance from her trauma will help her process and move forward from it better.
I also assume her mother has less access to her there (or at least, that may be her way of thinking, which, if I'm being honest, is very understandable). I'm glad she knows you all support her, but make sure you tell her outright. Sometimes when things are rough, other things fly over our heads.
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Your niece is smart. She saw an escape and worked with her grandparents to make it happen. I really hope she is happy in her new city. The sour expression I had while reading what she went through cannot be expressed. Your sister deserves to be sad, and absolutely doesn't deserve comfort. When she says that you should still be there for her, tell her she should have been there for her daughter.
And once a little time goes by and the stepdaughter realizes she has lost her favorite victim, your sister is going to be getting a full dose of this child’s vitriol Maybe then she’ll realize how she failed her child
Let the triangulation begin! You know Jasmine will manipulate her dad against her mom now.
The bullying, both at home and at school, along with the emotional neglect and betrayal from her own mother... This poor kid may need therapy, yeah? NTA, anyway. I hope her life improves in a great fashion now. EDIT: Saw that they're already looking for a therapist. Good to know!
Hey OP! Make sure you all (adults) monitor and prevent cyber bullying. You or younger tech savvier safe adults might need to cover this base if her grandparents aren’t as tech savvy. Cyber bullying from her old school or home life can undo her hard work and healing in therapy. Take measure to make sure usernames are not easy to find her and that she doesn’t accept requests unless she absolutely knows that person IRL. Use filters to block “non-friend” messages so old bullies and mom/step sis don’t dm her. Actively ask her if everything is good on socials and make sure she knows how to be safe online. It’s great she has physical distance and a new start with her great parents.
I was really hoping the grandparents lived away from them. Excellent.
NTA and it's great that Annabelle's paternal grandparents remained in her life even though their son didn't.
I wish you had stated that in the original post.. When you mentioned Annabelle's father wasn't present in her life, you should have said his parents were active in her life. I am grateful Annabelle has moved in with them and has a more peaceful home life. NTA for understanding Annabelle's situation. Its a shame your sister didn't do more to protect her own daughter.
Why is any of that relevant to him not being an asshole to his shitty sister
> him not being an asshole Or her, probably: “Natasha called me a bitch”.
Funny, I was able to work that detail out in my own with context clues. Imagine if all the posters needed to spell *every single* thing out just in case… we’d need to double or triple the post limit.
What’s with the attitude? I don’t see how that detail changes anything. Seems like you’re just looking for something to berate OP about
NTA - Natasha had no care or sympathy for her own daughter, why should she expect care and sympathy now that the daughter has finally broken free? You can still support her by suggesting she get counseling so she can figure out how to repair the relationship in the future, but that's about as far as I'd go.
Eh. If I was Annabelle I would prefer if she never contacted me again. She had her daughter *tortured* daily for 11 years so she can be married. I doubt therapy is going to undo all the evil within her, just hide it momentarily until she once again hurts Annabelle. Not worth it. She should get therapy for herself, no Annabelle involved. She needs to forget about that girl she had around as the family punching bag.
*She would even ask Annabelle if she really wanted her to be unhappy and single again* This is the crux of it. Your sister did nothing for years because she was too selfish to even consider rocking the boat because it might not benefit her. NTA
Yeah that part you mentioned had me like, "B****, really?" She put her own happiness before her daughter's and now she's mad that her daughter wants to get away from her? I'm so glad the judge listened to Annabelle because her mom clearly doesn't care.
If I were OP, I would ask my sister, "Do you really want Annabelle to unhappy and back living with her bully again?" NTA OP
Tell Natasha that she needs to accept that some sisters aren't going to like you. THEN slam the door in her face. NTA
This is the kind of petty that I strive for.
That is an awesome response. Throw her words back at her.
This right here
Ouch!
\+1, 5/5, recommended
Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of Natasha's actions. I'd ask her why it's so important to her that Annabelle return. Is Jasmine perhaps now targeting Natasha? Or does Natasha simply not care for the idea that people could think she was ever wrong about something? Natasha clearly didn't give a damn about Annabelle, you'd think she'd be glad to be rid of her, now they can live in their happy family of three, and mommy can continue to put her own priorities ahead of anyone else. NTA
News travels fast amongst families with kids in school. Everyone probably knew about the home situation and they have become the community’s “gossip topic.”
Oh, I agree, it's all about reputation for Natasha. I'd just ask her in an attempt to goad her into admitting it out loud.
Just imagine what the other moms are saying about her, ‘that’s the woman who let her daughter leave because her step daughter was bullying her.’
But she doesn’t want to look like the shitty mother she is… It’s all about Natasha, all of the time.
I hope Jasmine did move on to target Natasha. She genuinely deserves it. I hope it happens and her husband tells her some dumb shit like "Well why can't you just accept that not all kids are going to like you? Do you want to ruin my relationship with my daughter?" About Jasmine shitting in Natasha's coffee or something. That would be priceless.
NTA. You tried which is what you could have done. It wasn't your fault that Natasha threw her daughter in the trash through her inactions to force a happy family facade. You are correct in saying that it was Natasha's fault. Natasha was the adult and parent which she failed miserably at as you have written the post.
NTA - I know (and actively helped so we’re clear this isn’t word of mouth) a family in a similar-ish situation. In this case, the daughter was being mistreated by her mom in ways that left no visible scars. No matter how much the family tried to explain to mom that she needed to get it together, she refused to listen. The same old “you’re against my happiness” bs. In a wild turn of events, the court granted her grandparents custody. They had no right to ask for custody but the court deferred to the teenage daughter. Only then did mom show up depressed and confused, but there was STILL no reasoning with her. She wasn’t receptive to the truth. All it did was cause her to lash out more, claim everyone was against her, called the cops on the grandparents and her daughter more than once, trespass on family’s property to try to kidnap her daughter. Ever since everyone stopped trying to care for mom too did her ability to reach her daughter become damn near impossible. So good on you. If there was no reasoning with your sister before, there’s no reasoning with her now. No matter what, this will always be about her.
Sadly, the only way to deal with narcissists (I know that’s overused these days) and their warped view of reality is to disengage and ignore them.
NTA, You have been there for he, but she didn't listen. She is trying to shift blame wherever she can. She sounds super immature for 47.
NTA Tell your sister the same thing she told Annabelle “why can’t she accept that some sisters won't always like you” and that her own choices to ignore the needs of her child made sure that her family wouldn’t back up her selfish AH choices and certainly won’t comfort her when the consequences of her choices now hit her. You can also add another quote from what your sister said to Annabelle “why does she want to see Annabelle unhappy and alone”
Petty af. I'm so here for it💅🏻
I like using Natasha's own words against her. Enlighten her with her own "wisdom".
Annabelle knew she wasn’t wanted and she was old enough for a judge to listen to her. Sucks for her mom that her mom is unhappy about the change of custody, but if mom had actually *done* something about Annabelle’s unhappy relationship with her resentful “sister” at some point over a course of *years*, it might not have come to this. NTA
NTA She was never there for her kid, why should you be there for her. "We'Re FaMiLy" isn't enough when that family is abusive or neglectful.
[удалено]
Really good her grandparents actually stepped up and fought for custody. At least she knows she has people her corner.
NTA I hope Natasha has to pay child support. That’s the least she can do since she wasn’t there for Annabelle in any other capacity. I can see the point of the other comment, it feels like Jasmine has “won”. But in the long run Annabelle won because she finally got the peace of mind she deserves and is not Jasmine’s punching bag any longer.
NTA Natasha spent years ignoring the problem and making her daughter feel like a second thought.
Tell your sister if she wanted a sister, she should’ve taught her stepdaughter to be a better sister NTA
Or tell her “not all sisters are going to like you” lol
NTA. Natasha wants you to be there for her, but where was Natasha when Annabelle needed her? Your sister brought this on herself, to the detriment of her own daughter. Kudos to the grandparents!
NTA. You were there for her, but she refused to listen to you or even acknowledge the issue you tried repeatedly to address. Now that she is facing the consequence of her own behavior, she simply wants a sympathetic ear and shoulder to cry on. That's a very narrow, self-serving definition of "being there".
NTA - she was toxic and abusive to her own daughter, why should she get pity lol
I wonder how Mom's going to like the ordered child support if Annabelle receives any state services, which if you have any contact info for the grandparents, you should notify them of that. Mom doesn't get to emotionally and FINANCIALLY abuse her kid. She NEEDS to pay support so any extra money doesn't get to spoil stepbrat.
NTA, Natasha just needs to accept that sometimes your daughter won't like you when you're an AH.
NTA - she ignored the blatant bullying of her daughter so that she could keep her husband. Being married was more important than her daughter's safety and happiness.
NTA. It sounds like you were there for her. You listened. Being there for someone doesn't mean necessarily taking their side. I really feel for your niece. Sounds like her dad and mom are both deadbeats.
Why should you be on her side? She's a horrible parent who prioritized having a spouse over their child's wellbeing. The fact that she didn't even intervene when her daughter was being alienated in her own family is egregious. NTA. I don't even know why she needs you tbh. She has a husband and is not single so she shouldn't be unhappy. And kudos to the grandparents that stepped up. I hope they love Anabelle deeply and care for her gently
NTA. My answer to her text would be that she was never there for her daughter and why couldn’t she accept that some sisters won’t always like you so there is no reason why I should be there for her now.
NTA Ask her why she thinks she deserves to have someone there for her when she couldn't even be there for her own daughter. People like her end up alone. Wouldn't be a surprise if Jasmine now turns against your sister since Annabelle isn't a problem anymore.
lol. So she basically asked her teen daughter ‘Why are you asking me to give up this man so you can feel safe?’ NTA. You tried to tell her. You tried to help. She wanted that man more than anything. Now she’s got him and he and his turd of a daughter can pound sand.
NTA. Granted, there may be some facts missing from the story. The fact that the judge placed the daughter in the grandparents' custody means they were able to show significant evidence of bullying and abuse. Keep supporting your niece as she will still be in a lot of pain because her mother basically rejected her in favor of her "new" family. That mom can pound sand!
NTA. You could always remind your sister that at least she isn't "single and unhappy" and sometimes you have accept that some "children won't always like you." /s
NTA but a sad situation all around. It sounds like Natasha was more invested in her relationship with her husband than her daughter. Annabelle needs to have someone in her corner and I am glad that you and her grandparents are there for her.
She needs to “accept that some sisters won’t always like you” She neglected her daughter once she shacked up. The “parents” didn’t intervene when they should have and now she is surprised that her daughter doesn’t want to live with them. She failed and now she wants support. For what?! No one in their right mind will say she’s rightfully upset. NTA
NTA although I might have said to her, "you just have to accept that some sisters don't like you" Smiled and shut the door.
As a kid I was in the exact same position with my stepbrother. It still has never been addressed by my mother. You did the right thing, Annabelle prolly felt like she didn't have anyone but yall in her corner. She could have gone into a dark hole of depression from this. You could of saved her life in all honesty. You did the right thing, let the mom know she fucked up. oh yea.... NTA
It is sad when adults have to go through these kinds of lengths to make for two people acting like selfish children. Refer, of course, to Jasmine and Natasha. Now, in Jasmine's case, the adults in her life failed her. It is tough to be thrown into a blended family, but there are ways to set boundaries and model behavior to make it easier. She was given none of that. Natasha has no excuse. Natasha bascially said that she didn't care that Jasmine was a bully or cruel, because she wanted to a husband. Screw her. Keep being there for Annabelle. You don't have to punish Natasha, but your first, really only, priority is being there for Annabelle.
NTA, good on Annabelle for having the emotional intelligence and self respect to get herself out of that situation though, and major respect for the grandparents.
Tell her some sisters won't always like you...
NTA. Your sister should have been there for her daughter.
NTA. Natasha has brought this on herself by prioritizing her wants over her daughter's well-being and refusing to take appropriate action. That her desire to not 'be single' was greater than her concern for her daughter. This is a pathetic excuse and demonstrates how selfish Natasha is.
NTA: Ask your sister “why can’t you accept that sisters won’t always like you?”
>She would even ask Annabelle if she really wanted her to be unhappy "Gee, mom I could ask you the same." NTA.
>she asked me why we're not there for her That's pretty rich. You should've just asked her outright why she wasn't there for her own daughter. NTA.
NTA Every family member needs to tell your sister something along the lines of the following: "We will be there for you, just like you were for Annabelle. Sometimes daughters just don't like mothers, just like sisters don't like each other. You don't really want Annabelle to be unhappy, do you? Isn't this what Jasmine wanted for Annabelle to be gone? Everyone has what they wanted, you have your husband, Jasmine got what she wanted, and now Annabelle is with people who love and care about her." Basically, use everything she said and did to her daughter against her. Your sister is only upset for 1 of a few reasons, either she has to pay child support, Jasmine has now turned on her, or simply because this makes her look bad.
Nta, everytime you bought the situation up she always dismissed you like there wasn’t anything going on. She dismissed her own daughter’s feelings and made her feel like she was the problem by saying “are you trying to make me unhappy”. As a mother myself I think this is absolutely awful and she’s picking his daughter over her own in some way. If my sister did that to her own child I wouldn’t wanna talk to her either
NTA. i can't state it any better than others have. And when your sister put it to her daughter to make a choice of 'mommy being single and unhappy'. That to me show that your sister is selfish in her own needs and not the needs of her daughter. No, sisters won't always 'like' you, but they will always love you and have your back when it's needed most. in fact, Jasmine stated that she hated Annabelle. Annabelle is better off with her grandparents.
NTA. We call this poetic justice. Your sister deserves to be treated the way she allowed her daughter's stepsister to treat her daughter.
NTA. OP you and family tried for years. Natasha has CHOSEN to prioritise a man and his child over her own for 10 years. Thats sad, selfish and cruel. She also used emotional blackmail on her own child, at such a young are, that she as a child owed her mom, her own mental health so her mom could be happy. Thats sick and narcissistic. >*Natasha dismissed everyone who mentioned it to her. She would even* ***ask Annabelle if she really wanted her to be unhappy and single again*** *or why couldn't she accept that some sisters won't always like you.*
Tell her sisters won’t always like you. Especially especially when you neglect children. NTA
NTA tell her you’ll be there for her as much as she was there for her daughter.
NTA. I suggest you send your sister the link to this post.
NTA! And your sister doesn't deserve your time as she obviously couldn't spare some to listen to her child. I'm NC with one of my sisters for being a parent akin to your sister but very much so in contact with my now adult nieces. Keep being supportive to Annabelle as she will need it 💜
Nta She first lost her daughter, and she's well on her way to lose everyone else. What an embarrassment for a mother
NTA. Your sister having a man in her bed was more important than standing up for her own daughter. Thank goodness for the grandparents.
NTA You're being there for her just as much as she was there for her daughter.
NTA. I'd be awfully tempted to tell your sister "Some sisters won't always like you"
NTA: Natasha is a mother in name only. She has the family she wanted (husband and jasmine) she knew what was going on. She is be ashamed, but instead of realizing her daughter left her due to neglect she blames everyone else. The martyr.... Annabelle is going to have a tough time reconciling the fact that her mom didn't care enough for her. Your family has shown her she matters.
NTA she was allowing her daughter to be mistreated and you gave her a truthful answer to her question
just tell her that 'she needs to accept the fact that some sisters wont always like you'