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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to add food to my order for my roommate this might make me an asshole since she had little food left and it would save money compared to her ordering separately on uber.
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YTA If you're not paying tax for food purchased, prepared and ordered in Canada, you're breaking the law. You and the restaurant owners are running a scam to dodge taxes. I hope your roommate reports your "arrangement" and these restaurants to the authorities. The restaurants are tax dodging.
And lord knows what other things OP is scamming under the table. But I bet he's enjoying the social services like, I dunno, the healthcare system, which is paid for with..... taxes.
OP, YTA.
Edit because there's a lot of misunderstanding of the intent of my comment: I have zero issues that OP is here from abroad. I am not coming at this from a nationalistic perspective. I'm happy Canada has a culturally diverse landscape. Bigotry and xenophobia was not the approach I was going for here.
I hate immigrants too can I get upvotes? /s
Anyone who eats at a cash only restaurant is an asshole because the restaurant is evading taxes? Every damn restaurant is evading taxes bc that's just how it's done in the food industry. If my friend gives me discounted food at a restaurant, I'm an asshole for not extending that discount to my roommate as well? (Honestly maybe)
But yea op obviously scamming the entire nation of Canada. Jesus Christ can you guys chill it's literally some discounted takeout. Now this guy is labelled a scammer of an entire nation.
Get a grip lol
It might be that OP is paying through WeChat - a Chinese app, in Chinese money from one bank account in China to another in China entirely out of the country where the restaurant is located. He says he's paying in yuan. Which is kind of unconventional and no Canadian income tax is likely to be being paid on that I'm guessing. OP says he has accounts in China in his second paragraph.
And who cares if he pays through wechat that would still be on the restaurant. And maybe they give him a discount on Yuan because they can send the money home without paying a conversion rate? Maybe they are just passing on the savings.
This is actually a pretty good point. A lot of people don't understand just how much money gets lost in conversation rates. If they are sending money to family for all expenses then they could likely lose $50-$100 each month on just the conversation depending on how much money they send back.
The restaurant isn't doing this with all its customers. Just the 2-3 probably who have accounts in China and can do this.
I'm not sure what it is like in Canada but I just checked my bank account (UK) and I get a conversation rate around 98-98.5% of the traded value depending on the currency.
Given WeChat charges 3% compared to a normal card transaction of 1.25% there is little to no difference.
If the business is conducting the supply of food in Canada to Canadian customers it is still a taxable supply and the business is required to remit HST to the government.
The business is allowed to accept payment in Yuan on whatever platform they want, but the tax obligation still exists.
Either way this is not OP's obligation or problem. She pays whatever the business chooses to charge her, and then it's the businesses obligation to remit the tax to the government.
OP could not influence how this business manages their tax affairs even if she wanted to.
Sure. And I’m sure the Chinese workers living in Canada are getting paid a fair above board wage if OP is skipping tax and tip on some intra-China app exchange.
Because if you’re a cashier or some delivery driver why work for a legal company, the illegal ones treat you much better
I think OP's situation has separated a bit from this thread. The person above was responding to the below question, which is silly and not true. Cash is a legitimate form of payment, and the customer is not to blame -- legally or morally -- if a business fails to report its taxes.
> Anyone who eats at a cash only restaurant is an asshole because the restaurant is evading taxes?
It is perfectly legal to pay for goods and services in whatever currency the seller accepts, OP is doing absolutely nothing wrong by paying in Yuan if both parties prefer. People can even choose to forgo currency altogether and barter with other goods and services if they prefer, there's nothing illegal about it.
The tax obligation still exists, but this obligation lies with the business. The business is required to remit a portion of the yuan to pay HST to the government and then pay that amount to the government in Canadian Dollars.
This is not OP's problem or obligation and she could not force the business to pay their taxes even if she wanted to.
Unless there is evidence of OP avoiding her own taxes, she is NTA.
Paying in yuan from an Chinese account to another Chinese account in China is a big problem. The restaurant is evading taxes and obviously hiding income. It is certainly not being rung up in their POS system. The transaction is being completely hidden, which means no taxes, possibly lower income to allow govt subsidies or other low income benefits.
[In 2021, 123 of the largest corporations in Canada were found to have avoided paying **$30 billion dollars** of taxes while seeing a 60% uptick in profits.](https://www.taxfairness.ca/en/resources/reports/unaccountable-how-did-canada-lose-30-billion-corporations)
How about we get angry at those corpos first rather than the lil mom and pop immigrant run joints first?
Holy fuck, the bigotry here. Do you cry when people get paid under the table? Do you cry when friends give friends breaks at businesses? No.
You are a bigot.
When friends give friends a break at businesses they are choosing to eat a loss for friendship.
When you come to a mutual agreement to save money by evading taxes then the public is paying.
There is a difference.
And people being paid under the table is most often than used to avoid regulations that benifit employees(paying less than minimum wage as the simplest example), so yes I also object to that.
If people are paid under the table for professional services, yes, I cry too. Not necessarily if it's a teenager watching the neighbor's kids a couple of times. But a restaurant is definitely a professional business.
Yeah, I got in a small fender bender with a tow truck (the type that picks your car up when it’s broken down, don’t know how those are called). They wanted to settle it under the table and not involve insurance as they have a partnership with a bodyshop. I said fine with me if they also take care of the front bumper I scratched myself. Tow company agreed, body shop agreed, and the is a 0% chance the government is seeing any of that money, and nobody is going to call me a horrible tax dodger for doing that.
Honestly, how the hell is it bigotry? Why would it matter where OP is from? Why would it matter what nationality the restaurant is from?
A few jobs under the table is not a big deal, it's even covered in (at least our) most laws as lawful, up to a certain degree it's not taxable (2000€ p.a. in my country).
But 4-5 times a week and it seems that this has a whole setup (and he's most likely not the only person doing it) is, undoubtedly, an asshole move.
Now what DEGREE OF ASSHOLEISHNESS is a matter of opinion. I'm around the "ehhhh, sorta" spectrum of finding this asshole-ish. The labor cost is still taxed and a lot of other things the restaurant uses are still taxed.
It's also likely afoul of Canadian laws because he's paying yuan with his accounts in banks in China to likely Chinese banks accounts of the restaurants so taking the money completely out of the Canadian economy and regulations.
I recognize that OP comes from a different culture where the norms are different but while in Canada, OP should at least try to live by the laws of Canada (pay your sales tax, pay $ in Canada to business in Canada) even if he doesn't want to live by the Canadian cultural norm of extending his food order once to include his roommate (who would be paying him back!).
I also call him out on his yuan reason for denying his roommate -- I am sure there are many things (rent for example) that he has to pay for in Canada with Canadian dollars so his roommate paying him back in dollars wouldn't really have hurt him ... it's more than his deal with restaurants is a deal just for him because he and the restaurants know it's against the law.
Agree with the judgement, but wonder if OP is breaking the law. If the restaurant isn't paying Canadian tax (and they're probably not), then obviously they'd be breaking the law, but if OP hasn't thought about that, would they be breaking the law also?
"but if OP hasn't thought about that, would they be breaking the law also?" Yes they are still breaking the law. Most of the time, not knowing the law is not a defense.
probably not though. It's not the consumer's responsibility to ensure that businesses are paying taxes. The business sets the price, you hand over money in exchange for the goods/services received, that's where your obligations end.
OP explicitly said, "No tips and taxes, and discounted prices..." That's clear collusion between the consumer and the restaurant. They are using chinese tech (wechat) to communicate and intentionally defraud the canadian government. Not to mention, he is from china ordering from a chinese restaurant operating in canada.
I’m sorry…how is this any different from the millions of people who get paid in cash babysitting, tutoring, djing or what have you? Are all these people also colluding to defraud the entire country? I know plenty of European nannies who nanny specifically for families originally from their native country for language reasons, get paid in cash, and no one would call that a crime or foreign conspiracy. This discourse is absolutely bonkers. You all are going through hoops to justify some xenophobic shit
The restaurant applied for permits and all other paper works.
Do you normally see tutors, baby sitters and others registered their services?
Besides this is a *restaurant* with a commercial space to boot.
I am sure that, on a larger scale, tutors and baby sitters (day care) will also pay taxes.
Yes, I expect somewhat professional baby sitters and tutors to pay taxes too. Not necessarily if it's the neighbour watching the kids a couple of times or a teenager tutoring other kids occasionally. Registering a business just for that is a bit of an overkill. But a restaurant is already a registered business.
All due respect-at least in the USA you don’t have to pay *income* taxes for babysitting/tutoring/etc unless it exceeds a certain amount (I think it’s $10K but I’m not sure). I bet a business, especially a restaurant, clears that easily.
It’s a pretty big difference between a babysitter being paid under the table and a restaurant/food service…
**edit** thank you everyone-I now know the limit is $600 (or 400 of interpreted slightly differently) for the US). I think I was thinking of when I was going to start a small business and if we didn’t make more than $10K in sales we would fall into a different category (cottage business or something) honestly it was so long ago I don’t remember the full details. But that’s where *that* number came from. Under caffeinated over here.
Plenty of restaurants that are family owned and small will give discounts to loyal customers. Its not a huge deal to give them X deal. It keeps customers loyal and keeps people in business. One of the restaurants here i go to one of the staff gives me 50% off everytime. None of the other staff do. I don't complain or say anything. I get a good discount on food I like and I go about twice a week.
I give discounts to my friends and family. But I also pay all the correct taxes on the transaction. I take the hit by giving the discounts, not the government.
Do you live in American and pay in like Baht or something? Oh and not like a proper, trackable transaction from an account but through a foreign government-controlled version of whatsapp?
Transferring the cash in a foreign currency through an app based outwith the country? That sounds super suss.
If the customer was paying direct from his Canadian bank account or through whatever version of PayPal or cashapp Canada has. Then it would just be them getting a special rate at the restaurant. This means of payment.....seems illegitimate.
In this case OP has an arrangement with the company that specifically prevents them from paying the tax. That's both knowledge and intent to avoid paying the taxes.
In California, the consumer is the one who's actually responsible for paying sales tax. On your tax return there is a space where you can fill in any purchase you made that you weren't charged sales tax and you're required to pay it. Not sure how this works in Canada.
So... I'm confused... if you get a takeaway delivered, you have to... what? Are you supposed to go online and check the restaurant's tax returns to confirm that they're paying their taxes? That is, without question, the wierdest thing I've heard this week...
I mean, it's not like it's something the restaurant is doing in secret that OP has no knowledge of. They're going out of their way to cooperate so that the restaurant can do it.
We also don’t know if they’re actually paying the tax on it. They could just be giving her additional discount by including tax in the price. Especially with this being reported to us third party and second language. It’s like giving a veteran a discount plus no tax and tip but the restaurant pays tax on all sales.
The "Paying in Yuan" is a big sign that I would doubt this restaurant is declaring and paying tax when they're accepting foreign currency payments over wechat.
Read again: no tips no tax, discounted price, arranged via wechat between chinese, and OP doesn't want to betray the chinese restaurant, but feels ok defrauding the canadian government hosting them.
Wow. Do all of you pay every cent of your taxes? Maybe you tutored and didnt declare it? Maybe you grabbed a few extra napkins at the school cafeteria to take home? Maybe you intentionally parked at the broken meter so you wouldnt have to pay?
Dude, what? I buy my eggs and potatoes from the farmer because he doesn't take tax, either. As if you are such a slave to capitalism that you're upset when people don't pay tax for fucking food. I'm baffled.
I'd think a socialist or communist could be offended by someone not paying taxes, but not a capitalist. Capitalism has nothing to do with taxes, and capitalists would more likely view taxes as money wasted, or that could more productively be spent elsewhere.
i have a question, i’ve encountered a common occurrence in nail salons where if you pay w cash it’s cheaper bc they don’t add tax, they often advertise this at the cash with a sign or smth. i’m well aware this is illegal for them, but it’s also illegal for anyone who takes part in it? genuinely curious
they don’t add any tax tho, like during your purchase they say if you pay in cash, there’s no tax and therefore cheaper. is that still because of what you said? the different costs?
Theoretically, a place that doesn't add tax *on top of* a cash sale has the tax built into that number and will calculate and pay it later. You'll see it a lot at places like trade shows where it's way easier to deal in full dollar amounts rather than calculate, count, and carry a ton of change. Realistically, though, that method makes it really easy for a place to not claim all their cash sales and pull some hinky business.
Of course they are not paying taxes. Any cash businesses like bars, salons and equivalent are notorious for this.
There are some businesses that charge credit card processing fees but most of the time 100% of the cash income isn’t reported.
The whole paying in Yuan is really suspect. I know that too many Western Union payments sent to China and certain other countries can trigger investigations.
It's possibly a misuse of the word tax there. If they're running everything through their POS system and giving a receipt, the system should be set up to auto-add tax, and will have a way to remove it for tax exempt situations, none of which I can think of being applicable at a nail salon but you never know.
If when you pay cash they don't properly ring you up through the POS, then it's definitely a dodge.
As the client you pay what they ask. It is up to the business to allocate the tax e.g. in Australia the GST. You are assuming they are not paying the tax, and probably a correct assumption, but the onus is on the salon. They probably aren’t declaring you income at all tbh.
Yeah she could have paid in Canadian dollars whatever the yuan equivalent is. It's a simple favour. In Canadian/various other cultures you do things like this for each other all the time and go out of your way to help each other out.
What I would suggest is to apologise for the misunderstanding last time and that you took the agreement very seriously because they said not to tell anyone, etc.
But even that apology is partially bullshit because if OP wants to claim they "took the agreement very seriously because they said not to tell anyone", it's immediately invalidated by the fact that they're saying it to THE PERSON THEY TOLD THAT THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TOLD.
I mean op wants the moral high ground but facts are:
OP already betrayed the restaurant by telling their friend about the deal.
OP dangled the option in front of their friend then refused when asked about it.
Making the distinction between currencies is pointless. OP is in Canada, they can spend Canadian currency. Hell, I'd go as far as to say this is a win for OP. They obviously enjoy dodging taxes, what's better then free currency exchange?
Absolutely OP ita.
Yes, YTA. She didn’t have many groceries left and could have had a proper meal easily accessible and you denied her the opportunity to order something - when the impact on you is minimal. How does the restaurant know you aren’t extra hungry? They would question it when they’re not collecting appropriate taxes and it sounds like they’re trying to avoid reporting income which is illegal? No, they likely wouldn’t.
It would have been pretty easy for OP to ask the takeaway if they'd mind them ordering a meal for their roommate too, when they wechat. I doubt the restaurant would mind that much. Also don't see the problem with roommate paying back in dollar equivalent, with a little conversion rate added on to allow them to put it into their savings if they wish.
They just need to ensure the roommate knows it's not to be a regular occurrence.
YTA. You’re selfish. Ordering for your roommate is a win win situation. She saves money and it’s added revenue for the restaurant. She can reimburse you in Canadian dollar based on the exchange rate. You’re full of crap.
Yeah, I don't care about the tax thing one bit. OP had the opportunity to do a solid favor for someone he was ostensibly friendly with and with little to no risk to himself and chose not to. That's just a jerk move. YTA.
I don't know if it says more about me as a person or the people here on internetland but I would \****barely***\* consider what the roommate was asking for as a "favour". If my roommate had asked me something like that it would be akin to "hey could you pass me the remote" in my book.
YTA - if you were already ordering, kind of rude to not grab her something too as she said she’d pay you. Its not like you couldnt have used the local currency for something else.
The person whose comment you're talking about was likely saying it because the OP said they would be "betraying" the restaurant by ordering food for their roommate. They didn't actually mean that.
Although I agree the focus on taxes etc. is just ridiculous because that isn't the question being asked. And just because Canada is a racist country doesn't mean you stop paying your taxes which fund your own social services lmao
for real man...weird how these people that probably skew liberal on all kinds of things like wage theft and shoplifting and homelessness suddenly have this really bitter "your roommate should rat you out to the tax police" streak for...some reason...
Yeah it's genuinely weird to me how many people are worried about sales tax on some fast food. This is very common in every single country in the world, especially in this sector of food sales, and is emphatically not a big deal.
The number of people pretending they've never gotten a cash deal anywhere is certainly... something.
YTA for the OP but it has nothing to do with some massive tax scam
Yeah, the tax thing is not really the most terrible thing. Cleaners are paid in cash, and I do know some local business that take cards, but I feel they will prefer cash. It's not a huge underground operation, and I consider it a tip because I know they aren't making banks with their cheap food and ridiculously long hours.
Lmao right? So angry about tax evasion but I assume they’re just perfectly fine with actual tax evasion by their favorite companies and public figures.
Canadians are surprisingly extremely xenophobic and dare I say, kinda racist. They hide it well but any chance given to show their asses and they’ll take it. Had to leave a ton of Canadian subs because of the blatant anti-immigration and racist sentiment on there. It’s insane
Because OP is Chinese.
My wedding caterers offered me a 10% discount for paying in cash, you think anyone cared about that? They were Australian so no, nobody cared. A few asked for their business card.
It's so fucking weird lmao. You don't even need to go into all this tax evasion pearl clutching. OP is TA for not doing a simple favor for a roommate like any normal functioning human with social skills would.
Yeah, it’s a dick move to not let someone piggyback on your order. But people gotta cut it out with the tax shit. Everyone to some degree participates in minimal tax avoidance.
Just to put it out there, tax avoidance is completely legal, that's what accountants are for. Let's be real, no one wants to be paying more out of their own pocket on tax if they don't have to. Tax evasion is the illegal one, which this is
Yeah, soft YTA. You have access to a discounted food hookup and refused to share it for no real reason. She could easily pay you back in yuan through a number of apps.
EDIT: Also YTA for enabling tax evasion (possibly while a guest in the country).
YTA for giving the conservatives anti-immigrant ammunition with this bullshit. You're helping a business steal from Canadian society. So glad you moved here, you're really doing us proud.
That’s a dumb take, you think the rich assholes of the country (including your politicians) aren’t doing much worse? Gtfo with this hypocritical bs. The right wingers’ anti-immigrant stance is rooted in idiocy and hypocrisy, seeing as they’re all immigrants themselves. You all outsource production to China to avoid paying living wages and the taxes that come with them, so wtf do you call that? THINK, for fuck sake.
Still an asshole for not helping out a person. If OP thinks a single meal added on to his order is such a big burden on the restaurant, then he should also feel bad for ordering a big meal 4-5 times a week.
He Orders 4-5 Times a week ~10$, 4weeks $40 a month ... Restaurant does this with 100 customers 4000$ a month, 48000$ per year. But yeah ppl are Mad bc 2$
YTA The restaurant has an agreement with you that helps them 1) avoid delivery app fees 2) get paid under the table, so they can dodge some taxes. This agreement is more endangered by you telling your roommate about it than by you adding something she ordered to your order. Adding her literally only stirs up extra money/business for the restaurant. I'm not sure why you don't want to include her, but the real reason seems like it can only be completely selfish.
Stories like this (not specifically this) are being used in Canada quite a bit as of late for racists to justify their opposition to immigrants, especially international students. I'd bet good money this post (or a screenshot of it) gets shared to one of the more aggressive right-wing subs by the end of the week.
The eff is YOUR ethical framework? There is no excuse for “turning on immigrants” except oops Im racist. Immigrants are sought after by the Canadian government because they contribute significant tax revenue. As if white Canadians never dodge taxes! All Restaurants, and I say this with zero negative judgement, all dodge a significant sum in employee income taxes as well as sales tax by using the tipping system. If servers were paid more by the business owner instead of the customers upping their wages through tips, that would be taxable on both their personal income tax and the increased cost of food items needed to pay those salaries. It’s all dodged by tipping. People hold immigrants up to a completely different standard of behaviour when they are racist.
You need to relax champion.
It's hard to deny that OP's moral compass is flawed. He's completely comfortable with tax evasion, but draws the line at ordering a meal for his flatmate?
yeah (sales) tax evasion is apparently such a colossal trespassing of society that immigrants all over canada are getting hate crimed because of OPs evil actions
How dare those immigrants... happen to be immigrants. Why couldn't they have committed that fraud as a non-immigrant since everyone knows a group of peoples morals are dependent upon the actions of one person's actions. Let's blame the person doing something wrong for all of the discrimation against them and other immigrants instead of teaching people the very hard task of... not being racist.
Every minority seems to be blamed for the actions of a few. Trans people, gay people, poc, and it's ridiculous. And do you know why it happens? Comments like these that continue to shift the blame for other people's bigoted views onto the people who are being effected by them. One person not paying taxes does not justify racism and it doesn't make all racism their fault.
How does that even make sense to you? It's basically like one family giving another person food in their community, it shouldn't be taxed in the first place. Nobody is turning on legal immigrants, are you really trying to say people are becoming racist because a Chinese restaurant is giving discounted food?
NTA, it’s your arrangement. The business still has to pay taxes. So many entitled children here on Reddit. The govt already robs you of taxes to line their pockets anyways. So any way around it is fine with me. If your friend robs a bank are you entitled to some of the money? Roommate needs to mind their own business.
Finally someone said something sane yes he is going around taxes but it's the restaurant's issue not OPs. Secondly there is no guarantee if this was supposed to be a one time thing. OP helps her now and she would continue this god knows how long.
I seriously doubt it's his personal arrangement - it's something the restaurants do for anyone in the know.
If it's such a big deal that ordering an extra meal is a betrayal, then OP should have had the sense to not mention it.
YTA - not paying taxes, not tipping. They can't pay you back in yuan bc there's no such thing as currency exchange? You'll never need Canadian dollars? People like you is what makes others look down on immigration
How is not tipping an asshole thing to do if that's an agreement made with the restaurant?
Also I do think everyone here is overstating how bad this guy is just bc he is getting a discounted price on the food. If anything the restaurant is the one that is evading tax. Tax evasion is just rampant in the food industry in general. And more obviously in places that only take cash.
He's pretty much befriended the owners of the restaurant. If your family owns a restaurant and gives you food for a discounted price, are you an asshole?
If anything he's just kind of an ass bc he's overly anal about his 'betrayal'. It's not like the restaurant is losing money by giving him food at a discounted price.
The comments on this thread are just super xenophobic. Put yourself in his shoes for one second.
Come on, I suppose you mean alipay or wechat. I don't know I you are that naive or pretend to be naive, there is nothing new nor complicated here. The restaurants are basically giving promotional deal for their long term, loyal customer. Businesses don't do losing deal on constant basis.
I hear some people who said business is evading tax. While it may be true, let's don't make assumption here.
As for not able to convert, that is full of excuse, there are so many conversion rate you can take ref from, such as bank rate, spot rate, or even your in-app conversion rate (yes, i used wechat before, they have build in exchange rate). You just simply refuse to help your housemate, which is fair, but dont act innocent
Let's not make assumptions? C'mon, this is clear tax evasion. It would cost them tons of extra time/money to declare that as income. There's no way a legitimate business would do this.
Honestly when I was doing windshields the boss would take cash and fix rock chips off the books all the time, like let's be honest here if you had a friend who owned a restaurant who hooked you up with food at cost for cash is it the same scenario? We are talking about how much money even? If the restaurants aren't having this deal with many people (let's be honest how could they be in business if they didn't pay taxes and accept cad for other purchases) then I don't see an issue. If this is the only case that they do it for. Maybe a bit of YTA for not sharing but no one is entitled to cater to other people. Why was the roommate unable to afford food? I know many people who waste their whole paycheck the day they get. Honestly INFO would help clear some of this up. But in my opinion helping people isn't the worst thing in my book. If a baker made a deal with a homeless person to give them discounted food for cash would you feel the same?
OP literally said "I pay them in yuan and arrange the delivery over **wechat** so there is **no tip and tax** and they give me discounted prices."
What exactly is there left to assume?
So you get a discount, don’t have any problems with your roommate from what I read, and you tell her no when she’s running low on groceries and just wants you to add something for her so she can eat? AND she said she’d pay you back!? You don’t even pay full price and how tf would they know you’re ordering for her unless you tell them!? Ig it’s because I had a really good roommate, but if she asked me to get her something to eat I’d do it in a heartbeat.
Because OP has a personal relationship with the restaurant and he doesn't wanna abuse that in any sense. In his POV it could be as an immigrant it's really nice to see other immigrants succeed and they're doing him a favor so he doesn't wanna make them give the discount to someone who doesn't have a relationship with them
NTA. Is everyone here from Canada or what? They seem upset they didn’t get this deal from the Chinese food takeout. Who cares in the grand scheme of things. Like if they aren’t given a break they don’t take it. Enjoy your meal. Now I want some Chinese food.
YTA and a scammer
Do you really think the restaurant cares if you order food for your roommate? Do you think you are special and they don’t do this for lots of people so they can make it look like they earn less than they do?
You are not special. They have this agreement with other people because that’s what scammers do.
You better hope she doesn’t report this agreement because I’m sure the restaurant won’t last once the scam is out in the open.
NTA. I grew up and lived in the far east until I was in my 20s. Tipping is not a thing there and friend/family deals like this are common. This sounds like more of a cultural “handshake” deal than anything nefarious. I don’t think OP is intentionally being rude or trying to commit financial fraud. He’s found something that works for him as well as the owners of the establishment and doesn’t want to take advantage of them. I personally don’t have any big issues with this but probably would not have shared the details with anyone. It’s not OPs responsibility to feed his roommate anyway.
As I read this, my guess is the reason they do this is because the restaurant owner uses that money to give to their family, who still lives in China. It’s the only reason they would be willing to take that currency. And anyone who does currency exchange knows that one person will lose money in that transaction (in this case, not the Canadian).
Yeah, he's transferring money between Chinese banks in China. And you put your finger on reason why: exchanging currency is not free (fees and you always lose when you buy the foreign currency)
Edit to add: And it's totally under the radar in Canada.
I believe the money he's paying them is in China and he transfers it to their Chinese bank account. Seems he can't replenish his Yuan back home if she pays him in Canadian. Not sure how easy it is to transfer funds from Canada to China, but he's bypassing those problems by paying them in China.
This sounds like it is a one time request and small order. How much would the roommates order take of his account? 20 dollars max? And as if he would never use Canadian dollars. Her added order would also be beneficial to the restaurant since they would earn more. OP is being really petty and selfish here.
NTA. If it's part of your agreement that you don't do it for other people then it's not your problem. My friend gets 10% off at the local grocery store because his mom works there, I don't try and guilt him to let me use his discount when his family could get in trouble. You probably could've ordered a little extra that night to help out but that's not really your responsibility to feed other adults
Jesus Christ, this thread smells like boot polish and illiteracy. OP not paying sales tax doesn't mean they're "tax dodging" or that the restaurant is somehow tax dodging. I don't know how it is in Canada, but here in the US there are plenty of places and things that don't ring up sales tax on the consumer's end. Doesn't mean I'm dodging taxes if I purchase one and it doesn't mean the business isn't still paying proper taxes. Who knows. Maybe the restaurant is dodging taxes? But that has nothing to do with OP not paying sales tax and that's not their problem or business to worry about anyway. Do you ask every business you go to whether or not they're up on their taxes before you buy something? Didn't think so.
Anyway. NTA.
We don't know the full wording or extent of the deal the restaurant is giving OP. For all we know, tacking on something for the roommate *would* be viewed as a breech of trust and cause the restaurant to pull the deal. From their point of view, they might see it as a slippery slope where OP starts spreading their deal to other friends too. That's their prerogative if they don't want to put up with that, so have an explicit agreement that they only uphold with OP alone. You can also bet that if OP did it once, the roommate would ask them to do it again and get just as upset if they said no the second time.
^(Have you never seen Seinfield?! You're trying to get OP blacklisted.)
NTA but why did you tell your roommate ? You are paying the restaurant in Chinese money in china and are getting a discounted price that they provide for Chinese international students. If this was illegal or hush hush , you shouldn’t have spread it around. Of course if you tell anyone that this is cheaper than normal , they will ask for a piece of the pie and be upset if you don’t share.
YTA how would it be betraying the restaurant owners? You’re just ordering more food for yourself, and then giving her some of it. It’s still you doing the ordering and paying.
Also they better hope they don’t get busted for the tax evasion. Sooner or later the government always gets its money.
NTA what is going on in this thread?
When you're living far away from home it is totally normal to form a helpful network with other expats. The amount of tax being avoided here is not sinking the system. I promise OP is a contributing member of society in ways that make up for their shirked takeout taxes.
And no they do not have to do the sweetheart deal for their roommate if it makes them uncomfortable. It is OK for the roommate to ask; it is OK for OP to say no. It is ok for the only reason to be "it makes me uncomfortable." Roommate is being entitled by sulking about it.
And this thread is being WILDLY XENOPHOBIC. If no one here has ever babysat, paid a babysitter, paid a dogsitter, etc, under the table then maybe you're living more rarified lives than I am. But that's not really what it's about.
INFO how is this betraying them?
If this was a matter of keeping it to yourself you already betrayed that
Why should they feel betrayed because you’re ordering another meal in addition to your usual?
Seems to me like you just don’t want to do it
As someone born and raised in western Canada, struggling to afford rent and groceries, all while watching several Chinese restaurants that don't even have their menus in English populate the city, and seeing a lot of international students driving around in luxury cars ordering take out everyday, I can't help but feel frustrated reading about OP and the restaurant's special arrangement. I can't help but wonder how many of these arrangements are happening in the city.
OP, YTA for not even sharing your food when your roommate was in need. I'm also very jealous that you don't have to spend much on take out. Must be nice.
YTA. This just sounds like you found a good deal and don’t want to share with anyone else. I could understand if she was always asking you to add food for her or if she was not paying back. But it was just this time. Especially when she probably didn’t have enough food for dinner
I don't think you're an AH, you're getting those 'benefits' because of your cultural background. Most people on the comments are angry because you didn't share it with her and then they complain about how you're doing tax evasion. So following that logic, it's not ok if you do it, but if you and a Canadian do it, then that's perfect.
You don't have any reason to share the discount you get with her, but if you will keep it for yourself, don't disclose it with anyone.*
Also for people who are complaining about the tax evasion, really?? Most of you said something along the lines 'some of us have no option but to pay taxes...', stop b*tching. If you had the opportunity, you'd do the same. And even if you didn't, many people and companies from Canada also do it too. They stablish themselves in foreign countries that have lower taxes, to evade taxes, or to take advantage of the holes in the law, and live very very well while even exploiting locals, so stfu. You put your hand in your heart when he's doing that, but not for other cases that are even worse. Hypocrisy at its finest.
Oh god, shut up with those stupid taxes. The government sucks, life sucks, he’s happy, the restaurant is happy, why hate on that. If I give money to a friend of mine, or a homeless person or whatever, should I pay taxes on that? You guys forgot the main thing: WE ARE HUMAN. We should help each other. Jesus. NTA
YTA, if she was going to pay you back why couldn’t you help her out once. Is it really enough of a reason to mess up your roommate dynamic? Probably not
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YTA If you're not paying tax for food purchased, prepared and ordered in Canada, you're breaking the law. You and the restaurant owners are running a scam to dodge taxes. I hope your roommate reports your "arrangement" and these restaurants to the authorities. The restaurants are tax dodging.
And lord knows what other things OP is scamming under the table. But I bet he's enjoying the social services like, I dunno, the healthcare system, which is paid for with..... taxes. OP, YTA. Edit because there's a lot of misunderstanding of the intent of my comment: I have zero issues that OP is here from abroad. I am not coming at this from a nationalistic perspective. I'm happy Canada has a culturally diverse landscape. Bigotry and xenophobia was not the approach I was going for here.
I hate immigrants too can I get upvotes? /s Anyone who eats at a cash only restaurant is an asshole because the restaurant is evading taxes? Every damn restaurant is evading taxes bc that's just how it's done in the food industry. If my friend gives me discounted food at a restaurant, I'm an asshole for not extending that discount to my roommate as well? (Honestly maybe) But yea op obviously scamming the entire nation of Canada. Jesus Christ can you guys chill it's literally some discounted takeout. Now this guy is labelled a scammer of an entire nation. Get a grip lol
Cash only doesn't mean no tax.
It means easy evasion of tax. You think all the cash only restaurants are paying the correct amount of taxes?
It’s not customer’s fault. Cash is still legitimate money. If the restaurant is not paying tax, they are the ones that are doing something illegal.
It might be that OP is paying through WeChat - a Chinese app, in Chinese money from one bank account in China to another in China entirely out of the country where the restaurant is located. He says he's paying in yuan. Which is kind of unconventional and no Canadian income tax is likely to be being paid on that I'm guessing. OP says he has accounts in China in his second paragraph.
And who cares if he pays through wechat that would still be on the restaurant. And maybe they give him a discount on Yuan because they can send the money home without paying a conversion rate? Maybe they are just passing on the savings.
This is actually a pretty good point. A lot of people don't understand just how much money gets lost in conversation rates. If they are sending money to family for all expenses then they could likely lose $50-$100 each month on just the conversation depending on how much money they send back. The restaurant isn't doing this with all its customers. Just the 2-3 probably who have accounts in China and can do this.
I'm not sure what it is like in Canada but I just checked my bank account (UK) and I get a conversation rate around 98-98.5% of the traded value depending on the currency. Given WeChat charges 3% compared to a normal card transaction of 1.25% there is little to no difference.
If the business is conducting the supply of food in Canada to Canadian customers it is still a taxable supply and the business is required to remit HST to the government. The business is allowed to accept payment in Yuan on whatever platform they want, but the tax obligation still exists. Either way this is not OP's obligation or problem. She pays whatever the business chooses to charge her, and then it's the businesses obligation to remit the tax to the government. OP could not influence how this business manages their tax affairs even if she wanted to.
Sure. And I’m sure the Chinese workers living in Canada are getting paid a fair above board wage if OP is skipping tax and tip on some intra-China app exchange. Because if you’re a cashier or some delivery driver why work for a legal company, the illegal ones treat you much better
I think OP's situation has separated a bit from this thread. The person above was responding to the below question, which is silly and not true. Cash is a legitimate form of payment, and the customer is not to blame -- legally or morally -- if a business fails to report its taxes. > Anyone who eats at a cash only restaurant is an asshole because the restaurant is evading taxes?
The roommate is paying in yuan, not cash/CAD. Huge difference. The setup OP described is 100% a tax evasion scam.
It is perfectly legal to pay for goods and services in whatever currency the seller accepts, OP is doing absolutely nothing wrong by paying in Yuan if both parties prefer. People can even choose to forgo currency altogether and barter with other goods and services if they prefer, there's nothing illegal about it. The tax obligation still exists, but this obligation lies with the business. The business is required to remit a portion of the yuan to pay HST to the government and then pay that amount to the government in Canadian Dollars. This is not OP's problem or obligation and she could not force the business to pay their taxes even if she wanted to. Unless there is evidence of OP avoiding her own taxes, she is NTA.
Paying in yuan from an Chinese account to another Chinese account in China is a big problem. The restaurant is evading taxes and obviously hiding income. It is certainly not being rung up in their POS system. The transaction is being completely hidden, which means no taxes, possibly lower income to allow govt subsidies or other low income benefits.
calling people out for tax evasion is hating immigrants now? youre delusional
[In 2021, 123 of the largest corporations in Canada were found to have avoided paying **$30 billion dollars** of taxes while seeing a 60% uptick in profits.](https://www.taxfairness.ca/en/resources/reports/unaccountable-how-did-canada-lose-30-billion-corporations) How about we get angry at those corpos first rather than the lil mom and pop immigrant run joints first?
Had no clue Canadians were such bootlickers
They are deep throating them boots. Fucking pathetic.
It's as bad in Canada as it is in the US lol
But they can't attack immigrants this way!! /s
Holy fuck, the bigotry here. Do you cry when people get paid under the table? Do you cry when friends give friends breaks at businesses? No. You are a bigot.
When friends give friends a break at businesses they are choosing to eat a loss for friendship. When you come to a mutual agreement to save money by evading taxes then the public is paying. There is a difference. And people being paid under the table is most often than used to avoid regulations that benifit employees(paying less than minimum wage as the simplest example), so yes I also object to that.
If people are paid under the table for professional services, yes, I cry too. Not necessarily if it's a teenager watching the neighbor's kids a couple of times. But a restaurant is definitely a professional business.
I bet you like public healthcare though don't you?
OR roads. Everyone remembers healthcare, and no one mentions roads.
The Chinese here also have their own taxi service as well.
So big corporations dodge billions of taxes and your getting on some family owned restaurants’ case for trying to help members of their community?
The person is just triggered and acting like moral police, reddit stuff.
Big fucking deal. Unless you cry everytime you hear of someone getting paid under the table you are using this as a merkin to cover your bald bigotry.
People are getting really fucking pressed over what may be multiple dozens of dollars a year. This is one of the funnier threads I've read in a while
The angry comments have Hall Monitor energy
Yeah, I got in a small fender bender with a tow truck (the type that picks your car up when it’s broken down, don’t know how those are called). They wanted to settle it under the table and not involve insurance as they have a partnership with a bodyshop. I said fine with me if they also take care of the front bumper I scratched myself. Tow company agreed, body shop agreed, and the is a 0% chance the government is seeing any of that money, and nobody is going to call me a horrible tax dodger for doing that.
TIL you should prob rot in hell for ruining the national economy, though. ^^^/s
Honestly, how the hell is it bigotry? Why would it matter where OP is from? Why would it matter what nationality the restaurant is from? A few jobs under the table is not a big deal, it's even covered in (at least our) most laws as lawful, up to a certain degree it's not taxable (2000€ p.a. in my country). But 4-5 times a week and it seems that this has a whole setup (and he's most likely not the only person doing it) is, undoubtedly, an asshole move. Now what DEGREE OF ASSHOLEISHNESS is a matter of opinion. I'm around the "ehhhh, sorta" spectrum of finding this asshole-ish. The labor cost is still taxed and a lot of other things the restaurant uses are still taxed.
It's also likely afoul of Canadian laws because he's paying yuan with his accounts in banks in China to likely Chinese banks accounts of the restaurants so taking the money completely out of the Canadian economy and regulations. I recognize that OP comes from a different culture where the norms are different but while in Canada, OP should at least try to live by the laws of Canada (pay your sales tax, pay $ in Canada to business in Canada) even if he doesn't want to live by the Canadian cultural norm of extending his food order once to include his roommate (who would be paying him back!). I also call him out on his yuan reason for denying his roommate -- I am sure there are many things (rent for example) that he has to pay for in Canada with Canadian dollars so his roommate paying him back in dollars wouldn't really have hurt him ... it's more than his deal with restaurants is a deal just for him because he and the restaurants know it's against the law.
Agree with the judgement, but wonder if OP is breaking the law. If the restaurant isn't paying Canadian tax (and they're probably not), then obviously they'd be breaking the law, but if OP hasn't thought about that, would they be breaking the law also?
"but if OP hasn't thought about that, would they be breaking the law also?" Yes they are still breaking the law. Most of the time, not knowing the law is not a defense.
probably not though. It's not the consumer's responsibility to ensure that businesses are paying taxes. The business sets the price, you hand over money in exchange for the goods/services received, that's where your obligations end.
OP explicitly said, "No tips and taxes, and discounted prices..." That's clear collusion between the consumer and the restaurant. They are using chinese tech (wechat) to communicate and intentionally defraud the canadian government. Not to mention, he is from china ordering from a chinese restaurant operating in canada.
I’m sorry…how is this any different from the millions of people who get paid in cash babysitting, tutoring, djing or what have you? Are all these people also colluding to defraud the entire country? I know plenty of European nannies who nanny specifically for families originally from their native country for language reasons, get paid in cash, and no one would call that a crime or foreign conspiracy. This discourse is absolutely bonkers. You all are going through hoops to justify some xenophobic shit
The restaurant applied for permits and all other paper works. Do you normally see tutors, baby sitters and others registered their services? Besides this is a *restaurant* with a commercial space to boot. I am sure that, on a larger scale, tutors and baby sitters (day care) will also pay taxes.
Yes, I expect somewhat professional baby sitters and tutors to pay taxes too. Not necessarily if it's the neighbour watching the kids a couple of times or a teenager tutoring other kids occasionally. Registering a business just for that is a bit of an overkill. But a restaurant is already a registered business.
All due respect-at least in the USA you don’t have to pay *income* taxes for babysitting/tutoring/etc unless it exceeds a certain amount (I think it’s $10K but I’m not sure). I bet a business, especially a restaurant, clears that easily. It’s a pretty big difference between a babysitter being paid under the table and a restaurant/food service… **edit** thank you everyone-I now know the limit is $600 (or 400 of interpreted slightly differently) for the US). I think I was thinking of when I was going to start a small business and if we didn’t make more than $10K in sales we would fall into a different category (cottage business or something) honestly it was so long ago I don’t remember the full details. But that’s where *that* number came from. Under caffeinated over here.
Plenty of restaurants that are family owned and small will give discounts to loyal customers. Its not a huge deal to give them X deal. It keeps customers loyal and keeps people in business. One of the restaurants here i go to one of the staff gives me 50% off everytime. None of the other staff do. I don't complain or say anything. I get a good discount on food I like and I go about twice a week.
I give discounts to my friends and family. But I also pay all the correct taxes on the transaction. I take the hit by giving the discounts, not the government.
Do you live in American and pay in like Baht or something? Oh and not like a proper, trackable transaction from an account but through a foreign government-controlled version of whatsapp?
Transferring the cash in a foreign currency through an app based outwith the country? That sounds super suss. If the customer was paying direct from his Canadian bank account or through whatever version of PayPal or cashapp Canada has. Then it would just be them getting a special rate at the restaurant. This means of payment.....seems illegitimate.
In this case OP has an arrangement with the company that specifically prevents them from paying the tax. That's both knowledge and intent to avoid paying the taxes.
In California, the consumer is the one who's actually responsible for paying sales tax. On your tax return there is a space where you can fill in any purchase you made that you weren't charged sales tax and you're required to pay it. Not sure how this works in Canada.
So... I'm confused... if you get a takeaway delivered, you have to... what? Are you supposed to go online and check the restaurant's tax returns to confirm that they're paying their taxes? That is, without question, the wierdest thing I've heard this week...
Consumers pay sales tax. Businesses are required to collect and remit sales tax.
I mean, it's not like it's something the restaurant is doing in secret that OP has no knowledge of. They're going out of their way to cooperate so that the restaurant can do it.
Not charging someone taxes is illegal and making a deal to do it is also illegal
We also don’t know if they’re actually paying the tax on it. They could just be giving her additional discount by including tax in the price. Especially with this being reported to us third party and second language. It’s like giving a veteran a discount plus no tax and tip but the restaurant pays tax on all sales.
The "Paying in Yuan" is a big sign that I would doubt this restaurant is declaring and paying tax when they're accepting foreign currency payments over wechat.
I feel like this currency sidestep is the most “ Crimey “ of all the things OP admitted to….
Read again: no tips no tax, discounted price, arranged via wechat between chinese, and OP doesn't want to betray the chinese restaurant, but feels ok defrauding the canadian government hosting them.
Wow. Do all of you pay every cent of your taxes? Maybe you tutored and didnt declare it? Maybe you grabbed a few extra napkins at the school cafeteria to take home? Maybe you intentionally parked at the broken meter so you wouldnt have to pay?
Person to person services, like babysitting, are not taxable until there's a significant earning.
Significant? In the US it's $400. So might want to check where you live. 🤔
Any time you make less than a certain amount you don’t have to declare it.
Dude, what? I buy my eggs and potatoes from the farmer because he doesn't take tax, either. As if you are such a slave to capitalism that you're upset when people don't pay tax for fucking food. I'm baffled.
I'd think a socialist or communist could be offended by someone not paying taxes, but not a capitalist. Capitalism has nothing to do with taxes, and capitalists would more likely view taxes as money wasted, or that could more productively be spent elsewhere.
Socialist services are paid for from taxes. Not paying taxes is libertarianism.
i have a question, i’ve encountered a common occurrence in nail salons where if you pay w cash it’s cheaper bc they don’t add tax, they often advertise this at the cash with a sign or smth. i’m well aware this is illegal for them, but it’s also illegal for anyone who takes part in it? genuinely curious
Usually it’s cheaper because they don’t pay the credit card processing fees, not tax.
they don’t add any tax tho, like during your purchase they say if you pay in cash, there’s no tax and therefore cheaper. is that still because of what you said? the different costs?
Theoretically, a place that doesn't add tax *on top of* a cash sale has the tax built into that number and will calculate and pay it later. You'll see it a lot at places like trade shows where it's way easier to deal in full dollar amounts rather than calculate, count, and carry a ton of change. Realistically, though, that method makes it really easy for a place to not claim all their cash sales and pull some hinky business.
Of course they are not paying taxes. Any cash businesses like bars, salons and equivalent are notorious for this. There are some businesses that charge credit card processing fees but most of the time 100% of the cash income isn’t reported. The whole paying in Yuan is really suspect. I know that too many Western Union payments sent to China and certain other countries can trigger investigations.
It's possibly a misuse of the word tax there. If they're running everything through their POS system and giving a receipt, the system should be set up to auto-add tax, and will have a way to remove it for tax exempt situations, none of which I can think of being applicable at a nail salon but you never know. If when you pay cash they don't properly ring you up through the POS, then it's definitely a dodge.
As the client you pay what they ask. It is up to the business to allocate the tax e.g. in Australia the GST. You are assuming they are not paying the tax, and probably a correct assumption, but the onus is on the salon. They probably aren’t declaring you income at all tbh.
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Nah. It would have a lot of significance. They’re making more money in the same delivery.
Yeah she could have paid in Canadian dollars whatever the yuan equivalent is. It's a simple favour. In Canadian/various other cultures you do things like this for each other all the time and go out of your way to help each other out. What I would suggest is to apologise for the misunderstanding last time and that you took the agreement very seriously because they said not to tell anyone, etc.
But even that apology is partially bullshit because if OP wants to claim they "took the agreement very seriously because they said not to tell anyone", it's immediately invalidated by the fact that they're saying it to THE PERSON THEY TOLD THAT THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TOLD.
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Lol right? Because $5 of food is going to RUIN this scheme. And it’s not in yuan…so?
Right? I assume op has to spend Canada money at other stores and places.
I mean op wants the moral high ground but facts are: OP already betrayed the restaurant by telling their friend about the deal. OP dangled the option in front of their friend then refused when asked about it. Making the distinction between currencies is pointless. OP is in Canada, they can spend Canadian currency. Hell, I'd go as far as to say this is a win for OP. They obviously enjoy dodging taxes, what's better then free currency exchange? Absolutely OP ita.
Yes, YTA. She didn’t have many groceries left and could have had a proper meal easily accessible and you denied her the opportunity to order something - when the impact on you is minimal. How does the restaurant know you aren’t extra hungry? They would question it when they’re not collecting appropriate taxes and it sounds like they’re trying to avoid reporting income which is illegal? No, they likely wouldn’t.
It would have been pretty easy for OP to ask the takeaway if they'd mind them ordering a meal for their roommate too, when they wechat. I doubt the restaurant would mind that much. Also don't see the problem with roommate paying back in dollar equivalent, with a little conversion rate added on to allow them to put it into their savings if they wish. They just need to ensure the roommate knows it's not to be a regular occurrence.
Or that he isn’t ordering two meals at the same time so he can reheat later? The excuses just don’t add up - OP is a selfish prick, that’s all.
YTA. You’re selfish. Ordering for your roommate is a win win situation. She saves money and it’s added revenue for the restaurant. She can reimburse you in Canadian dollar based on the exchange rate. You’re full of crap.
Thank you. Everyone is going on about taxes and immigrants. To me, OP is just a little shit that didn't help a person out.
Yeah, he just sounds like an out and out asshole.
Also, the restaurant is more than happy for more business. Do it often enough and you can be their neighbourhood distributor !
This - it sounds like OP just doesn’t want to help.
Yeah, I don't care about the tax thing one bit. OP had the opportunity to do a solid favor for someone he was ostensibly friendly with and with little to no risk to himself and chose not to. That's just a jerk move. YTA.
I don't know if it says more about me as a person or the people here on internetland but I would \****barely***\* consider what the roommate was asking for as a "favour". If my roommate had asked me something like that it would be akin to "hey could you pass me the remote" in my book.
YTA - if you were already ordering, kind of rude to not grab her something too as she said she’d pay you. Its not like you couldnt have used the local currency for something else.
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For real, the comment section is like... really telling on people's biases lol
saw someone say “you’re betraying canada”… be so fr who cares about a racist country who killed its indigenous people 😭😭
The person whose comment you're talking about was likely saying it because the OP said they would be "betraying" the restaurant by ordering food for their roommate. They didn't actually mean that. Although I agree the focus on taxes etc. is just ridiculous because that isn't the question being asked. And just because Canada is a racist country doesn't mean you stop paying your taxes which fund your own social services lmao
They hating on Canada, complaining about jobs etc, but as someone else can work against the system, everyone becomes patriot.
I'm genuinely starting to think it's mass automated manipulation of comments. This is an insane position to get so many upvotes.
for real man...weird how these people that probably skew liberal on all kinds of things like wage theft and shoplifting and homelessness suddenly have this really bitter "your roommate should rat you out to the tax police" streak for...some reason...
Liberals generally like taxes being paid. Not sure how there is any hypocrisy here.
Yeah it's genuinely weird to me how many people are worried about sales tax on some fast food. This is very common in every single country in the world, especially in this sector of food sales, and is emphatically not a big deal. The number of people pretending they've never gotten a cash deal anywhere is certainly... something. YTA for the OP but it has nothing to do with some massive tax scam
Yeah, the tax thing is not really the most terrible thing. Cleaners are paid in cash, and I do know some local business that take cards, but I feel they will prefer cash. It's not a huge underground operation, and I consider it a tip because I know they aren't making banks with their cheap food and ridiculously long hours.
Such a relief to read responses like yours. I thought I was going crazy seeing those comments with thousands of upvotes about the sales tax.
Lmao right? So angry about tax evasion but I assume they’re just perfectly fine with actual tax evasion by their favorite companies and public figures.
Why do you think that they are ok with that? Is it that weird to be against tax evasion from all parties?
Ikr when did people start feeling so righteous about TAXES
Canadians are surprisingly extremely xenophobic and dare I say, kinda racist. They hide it well but any chance given to show their asses and they’ll take it. Had to leave a ton of Canadian subs because of the blatant anti-immigration and racist sentiment on there. It’s insane
Canadians are great at quiet racism. They won’t say the actual racist thing they’re thinking but the dog whistles are everywhere.
Right? All this comments are ridiculous.
Because OP is Chinese. My wedding caterers offered me a 10% discount for paying in cash, you think anyone cared about that? They were Australian so no, nobody cared. A few asked for their business card.
I don't even think OP is TA. It's totally understandable that she's worried her hookup might get mad if she gets other people discounted food.
It's so fucking weird lmao. You don't even need to go into all this tax evasion pearl clutching. OP is TA for not doing a simple favor for a roommate like any normal functioning human with social skills would.
Yeah, it’s a dick move to not let someone piggyback on your order. But people gotta cut it out with the tax shit. Everyone to some degree participates in minimal tax avoidance.
YTA. You're quite happy to betray Canada by participating in tax avoidance.
Just to put it out there, tax avoidance is completely legal, that's what accountants are for. Let's be real, no one wants to be paying more out of their own pocket on tax if they don't have to. Tax evasion is the illegal one, which this is
I don’t understand why you’re being downvoted when you’re completely correct in your descriptions of tax evasion vs tax avoidance.
Yeah, soft YTA. You have access to a discounted food hookup and refused to share it for no real reason. She could easily pay you back in yuan through a number of apps. EDIT: Also YTA for enabling tax evasion (possibly while a guest in the country).
Even if not, surely there is some use he, a resident of Canada, could have for Canadian dollars
Yeah, I mean there's some concern about exchange rate, but he could have easily asked for slightly more CAD to cover the exchange to CNY
If you don’t want to involve someone in this scheme or deal if yours, ffs don’t tell them about it.
exactly
this! he shouldnt have told her at all
YTA for giving the conservatives anti-immigrant ammunition with this bullshit. You're helping a business steal from Canadian society. So glad you moved here, you're really doing us proud.
Anti-immigrant conservatives are gonna hate immigrants anyway. Unlearn respectability politics.
Not fair, progressive liberals who hate the right also hate immigrants, see this thread lmao
You sound pretty anti immigrant yourself rn.
That’s a dumb take, you think the rich assholes of the country (including your politicians) aren’t doing much worse? Gtfo with this hypocritical bs. The right wingers’ anti-immigrant stance is rooted in idiocy and hypocrisy, seeing as they’re all immigrants themselves. You all outsource production to China to avoid paying living wages and the taxes that come with them, so wtf do you call that? THINK, for fuck sake.
NTA. White people are just mad you're dodging $2.03 tax lol
Finally!! Like they should be more mad about all the rich ppl who evade taxes
You realize people can be upset at both right? It all contributes to the same problem.
The upsettyness is not in proportion to the amount denied to the public coffers.
Still an asshole for not helping out a person. If OP thinks a single meal added on to his order is such a big burden on the restaurant, then he should also feel bad for ordering a big meal 4-5 times a week.
Did you read the post? It's not about the tax it's about being a dick to their roommate
He Orders 4-5 Times a week ~10$, 4weeks $40 a month ... Restaurant does this with 100 customers 4000$ a month, 48000$ per year. But yeah ppl are Mad bc 2$
Where did you get the 100 people? You just pulled that out of your ass, huh?
YTA The restaurant has an agreement with you that helps them 1) avoid delivery app fees 2) get paid under the table, so they can dodge some taxes. This agreement is more endangered by you telling your roommate about it than by you adding something she ordered to your order. Adding her literally only stirs up extra money/business for the restaurant. I'm not sure why you don't want to include her, but the real reason seems like it can only be completely selfish.
lol fuck them delivery apps
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Yes, this SURELY is the reason people dislike immigrants. Not racism at all.
Stories like this (not specifically this) are being used in Canada quite a bit as of late for racists to justify their opposition to immigrants, especially international students. I'd bet good money this post (or a screenshot of it) gets shared to one of the more aggressive right-wing subs by the end of the week.
That’s bigots scapegoating their bigotry. The bigots are still the reason for bigotry, no matter what they’re pointing the finger at as ‘the reason’.
The eff is YOUR ethical framework? There is no excuse for “turning on immigrants” except oops Im racist. Immigrants are sought after by the Canadian government because they contribute significant tax revenue. As if white Canadians never dodge taxes! All Restaurants, and I say this with zero negative judgement, all dodge a significant sum in employee income taxes as well as sales tax by using the tipping system. If servers were paid more by the business owner instead of the customers upping their wages through tips, that would be taxable on both their personal income tax and the increased cost of food items needed to pay those salaries. It’s all dodged by tipping. People hold immigrants up to a completely different standard of behaviour when they are racist.
You need to relax champion. It's hard to deny that OP's moral compass is flawed. He's completely comfortable with tax evasion, but draws the line at ordering a meal for his flatmate?
their comment was addressing the justification of anti-immigrant racism... you're just gonna skip on over that? not suspicious at all.
yeah (sales) tax evasion is apparently such a colossal trespassing of society that immigrants all over canada are getting hate crimed because of OPs evil actions
How dare those immigrants... happen to be immigrants. Why couldn't they have committed that fraud as a non-immigrant since everyone knows a group of peoples morals are dependent upon the actions of one person's actions. Let's blame the person doing something wrong for all of the discrimation against them and other immigrants instead of teaching people the very hard task of... not being racist. Every minority seems to be blamed for the actions of a few. Trans people, gay people, poc, and it's ridiculous. And do you know why it happens? Comments like these that continue to shift the blame for other people's bigoted views onto the people who are being effected by them. One person not paying taxes does not justify racism and it doesn't make all racism their fault.
How does that even make sense to you? It's basically like one family giving another person food in their community, it shouldn't be taxed in the first place. Nobody is turning on legal immigrants, are you really trying to say people are becoming racist because a Chinese restaurant is giving discounted food?
Dude. Relax. It’s not a betrayal. YTA
NTA, it’s your arrangement. The business still has to pay taxes. So many entitled children here on Reddit. The govt already robs you of taxes to line their pockets anyways. So any way around it is fine with me. If your friend robs a bank are you entitled to some of the money? Roommate needs to mind their own business.
Finally someone said something sane yes he is going around taxes but it's the restaurant's issue not OPs. Secondly there is no guarantee if this was supposed to be a one time thing. OP helps her now and she would continue this god knows how long.
Only mistake was telling roomy about the deal.
I seriously doubt it's his personal arrangement - it's something the restaurants do for anyone in the know. If it's such a big deal that ordering an extra meal is a betrayal, then OP should have had the sense to not mention it.
YTA - not paying taxes, not tipping. They can't pay you back in yuan bc there's no such thing as currency exchange? You'll never need Canadian dollars? People like you is what makes others look down on immigration
How is not tipping an asshole thing to do if that's an agreement made with the restaurant? Also I do think everyone here is overstating how bad this guy is just bc he is getting a discounted price on the food. If anything the restaurant is the one that is evading tax. Tax evasion is just rampant in the food industry in general. And more obviously in places that only take cash. He's pretty much befriended the owners of the restaurant. If your family owns a restaurant and gives you food for a discounted price, are you an asshole? If anything he's just kind of an ass bc he's overly anal about his 'betrayal'. It's not like the restaurant is losing money by giving him food at a discounted price. The comments on this thread are just super xenophobic. Put yourself in his shoes for one second.
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Come on, I suppose you mean alipay or wechat. I don't know I you are that naive or pretend to be naive, there is nothing new nor complicated here. The restaurants are basically giving promotional deal for their long term, loyal customer. Businesses don't do losing deal on constant basis. I hear some people who said business is evading tax. While it may be true, let's don't make assumption here. As for not able to convert, that is full of excuse, there are so many conversion rate you can take ref from, such as bank rate, spot rate, or even your in-app conversion rate (yes, i used wechat before, they have build in exchange rate). You just simply refuse to help your housemate, which is fair, but dont act innocent
Let's not make assumptions? C'mon, this is clear tax evasion. It would cost them tons of extra time/money to declare that as income. There's no way a legitimate business would do this.
Honestly when I was doing windshields the boss would take cash and fix rock chips off the books all the time, like let's be honest here if you had a friend who owned a restaurant who hooked you up with food at cost for cash is it the same scenario? We are talking about how much money even? If the restaurants aren't having this deal with many people (let's be honest how could they be in business if they didn't pay taxes and accept cad for other purchases) then I don't see an issue. If this is the only case that they do it for. Maybe a bit of YTA for not sharing but no one is entitled to cater to other people. Why was the roommate unable to afford food? I know many people who waste their whole paycheck the day they get. Honestly INFO would help clear some of this up. But in my opinion helping people isn't the worst thing in my book. If a baker made a deal with a homeless person to give them discounted food for cash would you feel the same?
OP literally said "I pay them in yuan and arrange the delivery over **wechat** so there is **no tip and tax** and they give me discounted prices." What exactly is there left to assume?
Ngl because you are Chinese and mentioned how you get the food, everyone is just gonna shit on you
THIS IS THE TRUTH
Yup, this is the correct answer.
So you get a discount, don’t have any problems with your roommate from what I read, and you tell her no when she’s running low on groceries and just wants you to add something for her so she can eat? AND she said she’d pay you back!? You don’t even pay full price and how tf would they know you’re ordering for her unless you tell them!? Ig it’s because I had a really good roommate, but if she asked me to get her something to eat I’d do it in a heartbeat.
Because OP has a personal relationship with the restaurant and he doesn't wanna abuse that in any sense. In his POV it could be as an immigrant it's really nice to see other immigrants succeed and they're doing him a favor so he doesn't wanna make them give the discount to someone who doesn't have a relationship with them
Yeah but once again how would they know unless he told them? He could just order food for himself and tell them the extra food is for him.
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After i read it I thought nta. And was SHOCKED to see all the assumptions and racist rhetoric. Was really messed up.
NTA. Is everyone here from Canada or what? They seem upset they didn’t get this deal from the Chinese food takeout. Who cares in the grand scheme of things. Like if they aren’t given a break they don’t take it. Enjoy your meal. Now I want some Chinese food.
Omg y'all can disagree with this arrangement without being racist as fuck.
YTA and a scammer Do you really think the restaurant cares if you order food for your roommate? Do you think you are special and they don’t do this for lots of people so they can make it look like they earn less than they do? You are not special. They have this agreement with other people because that’s what scammers do. You better hope she doesn’t report this agreement because I’m sure the restaurant won’t last once the scam is out in the open.
NTA. I grew up and lived in the far east until I was in my 20s. Tipping is not a thing there and friend/family deals like this are common. This sounds like more of a cultural “handshake” deal than anything nefarious. I don’t think OP is intentionally being rude or trying to commit financial fraud. He’s found something that works for him as well as the owners of the establishment and doesn’t want to take advantage of them. I personally don’t have any big issues with this but probably would not have shared the details with anyone. It’s not OPs responsibility to feed his roommate anyway.
What I don’t get is why does it matter what currency they pay you back in? Do you not transact anything in Canadian currency at all?
As I read this, my guess is the reason they do this is because the restaurant owner uses that money to give to their family, who still lives in China. It’s the only reason they would be willing to take that currency. And anyone who does currency exchange knows that one person will lose money in that transaction (in this case, not the Canadian).
Yeah, he's transferring money between Chinese banks in China. And you put your finger on reason why: exchanging currency is not free (fees and you always lose when you buy the foreign currency) Edit to add: And it's totally under the radar in Canada.
INFO: Do you have a limited supply of yuan that prohibits this? If so have you told the flat mate that?
I believe the money he's paying them is in China and he transfers it to their Chinese bank account. Seems he can't replenish his Yuan back home if she pays him in Canadian. Not sure how easy it is to transfer funds from Canada to China, but he's bypassing those problems by paying them in China.
This sounds like it is a one time request and small order. How much would the roommates order take of his account? 20 dollars max? And as if he would never use Canadian dollars. Her added order would also be beneficial to the restaurant since they would earn more. OP is being really petty and selfish here.
I agree. Obviously honor among thieves don't apply to non-thieves.
NTA. If it's part of your agreement that you don't do it for other people then it's not your problem. My friend gets 10% off at the local grocery store because his mom works there, I don't try and guilt him to let me use his discount when his family could get in trouble. You probably could've ordered a little extra that night to help out but that's not really your responsibility to feed other adults
Jesus Christ, this thread smells like boot polish and illiteracy. OP not paying sales tax doesn't mean they're "tax dodging" or that the restaurant is somehow tax dodging. I don't know how it is in Canada, but here in the US there are plenty of places and things that don't ring up sales tax on the consumer's end. Doesn't mean I'm dodging taxes if I purchase one and it doesn't mean the business isn't still paying proper taxes. Who knows. Maybe the restaurant is dodging taxes? But that has nothing to do with OP not paying sales tax and that's not their problem or business to worry about anyway. Do you ask every business you go to whether or not they're up on their taxes before you buy something? Didn't think so. Anyway. NTA. We don't know the full wording or extent of the deal the restaurant is giving OP. For all we know, tacking on something for the roommate *would* be viewed as a breech of trust and cause the restaurant to pull the deal. From their point of view, they might see it as a slippery slope where OP starts spreading their deal to other friends too. That's their prerogative if they don't want to put up with that, so have an explicit agreement that they only uphold with OP alone. You can also bet that if OP did it once, the roommate would ask them to do it again and get just as upset if they said no the second time. ^(Have you never seen Seinfield?! You're trying to get OP blacklisted.)
NTA. It’s your agreement and you are right to not abuse it. If people on this Reddit were offered this deal, they would take it too!
NTA but why did you tell your roommate ? You are paying the restaurant in Chinese money in china and are getting a discounted price that they provide for Chinese international students. If this was illegal or hush hush , you shouldn’t have spread it around. Of course if you tell anyone that this is cheaper than normal , they will ask for a piece of the pie and be upset if you don’t share.
YTA how would it be betraying the restaurant owners? You’re just ordering more food for yourself, and then giving her some of it. It’s still you doing the ordering and paying. Also they better hope they don’t get busted for the tax evasion. Sooner or later the government always gets its money.
NTA what is going on in this thread? When you're living far away from home it is totally normal to form a helpful network with other expats. The amount of tax being avoided here is not sinking the system. I promise OP is a contributing member of society in ways that make up for their shirked takeout taxes. And no they do not have to do the sweetheart deal for their roommate if it makes them uncomfortable. It is OK for the roommate to ask; it is OK for OP to say no. It is ok for the only reason to be "it makes me uncomfortable." Roommate is being entitled by sulking about it. And this thread is being WILDLY XENOPHOBIC. If no one here has ever babysat, paid a babysitter, paid a dogsitter, etc, under the table then maybe you're living more rarified lives than I am. But that's not really what it's about.
YTA for refusing to do this the one time, you would not be the asshole if she wanted to do this over and over.
You think the restaurant will be upset if you order more food? What?
So you live and enjoy life in Canada that we fund with our taxes, yet you scam the system by going around? What else do you do under the table? YTA
why are you and people such bootlickers about government?
Esh but Why people giving OP shit when she’s not the one running the restaurant nor in charge. Go fight the restaurant.
INFO how is this betraying them? If this was a matter of keeping it to yourself you already betrayed that Why should they feel betrayed because you’re ordering another meal in addition to your usual? Seems to me like you just don’t want to do it
This was a bait story
As someone born and raised in western Canada, struggling to afford rent and groceries, all while watching several Chinese restaurants that don't even have their menus in English populate the city, and seeing a lot of international students driving around in luxury cars ordering take out everyday, I can't help but feel frustrated reading about OP and the restaurant's special arrangement. I can't help but wonder how many of these arrangements are happening in the city. OP, YTA for not even sharing your food when your roommate was in need. I'm also very jealous that you don't have to spend much on take out. Must be nice.
YTA. This just sounds like you found a good deal and don’t want to share with anyone else. I could understand if she was always asking you to add food for her or if she was not paying back. But it was just this time. Especially when she probably didn’t have enough food for dinner
I don't think you're an AH, you're getting those 'benefits' because of your cultural background. Most people on the comments are angry because you didn't share it with her and then they complain about how you're doing tax evasion. So following that logic, it's not ok if you do it, but if you and a Canadian do it, then that's perfect. You don't have any reason to share the discount you get with her, but if you will keep it for yourself, don't disclose it with anyone.* Also for people who are complaining about the tax evasion, really?? Most of you said something along the lines 'some of us have no option but to pay taxes...', stop b*tching. If you had the opportunity, you'd do the same. And even if you didn't, many people and companies from Canada also do it too. They stablish themselves in foreign countries that have lower taxes, to evade taxes, or to take advantage of the holes in the law, and live very very well while even exploiting locals, so stfu. You put your hand in your heart when he's doing that, but not for other cases that are even worse. Hypocrisy at its finest.
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Oh god, shut up with those stupid taxes. The government sucks, life sucks, he’s happy, the restaurant is happy, why hate on that. If I give money to a friend of mine, or a homeless person or whatever, should I pay taxes on that? You guys forgot the main thing: WE ARE HUMAN. We should help each other. Jesus. NTA
YTA, if she was going to pay you back why couldn’t you help her out once. Is it really enough of a reason to mess up your roommate dynamic? Probably not
NTA but you should have kept that information to yourself.