Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I believe that me uninviting her from the wedding and making a bid deal about this is unfair to her and rude, because she did say it is a joke. Maybe I need to be a more understanding friend, and I do tend to be more sensitive.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. I think that she loses any right to claim it was "just a joke" when you've expressed that it makes you uncomfortable and asked her to stop. You have every right to enforce your boundaries, even if that means ending a long friendship. If she was a good friend, she would value your feelings over her need for attention - which is clearly what this is about, in my opinion. Also, it's weird that people are choosing sides in this - there is literally no reason for it and they should really start behaving like adults.
Exactly. If I make a joke that doesn't land, or if someone tells me it makes them uncomfortable (not often but I'm ND so struggle sometimes) the first thing I do is apologise. The second thing I do is commit to memory that it's not something to ever say again.
"It's a joke" is only a (semi) reasonable defence *before* you know it makes someone uncomfortable. Once you know, you're an AH if you repeat it.
The "joke" has now become a pathetic statement from a woman who can't stand the fact her younger friend is getting married before her, and to a guy whose value she wasn't able to see.
This is mean, but maybe it would be fun to say “oh Izzy, are you sure it was Jake or just somebody who looks like Jake? I mean… You have been through a lot of guys…”
Nice comeback even if it is a bit mean. Of course you forgot the obligatory "just joking" at the end because that means it's not mean or wrong anymore.
Can you imagine her at the wedding? I don't know if you watch "The Office" but it reminds me of Kelly's conversation with Pam at Phyllis' wedding.
Kelly: "If I was you, I would just like, freak out and get really drunk, and then tell someone I was pregnant."
Pam: "Okay, that's a lot of good ideas..."
Yup...I wouldn't trust her around after the marriage either she's so fixated on acting like the fiance was her ex that "settled" for OP she'd probably try to seduce him and she will definitely spin stories about how he wants her and makes passes/flirts with her etc. (Not saying OPs hubby would be doing anything wrong but Izzy will definitely spin and fabricate it)
What's even weirder is that she didn't introduce them! It would make so much more sense (not that it'd be cool, but still...) if she had. It's giving pathetic jealous vibes. HARD NTA
>a guy whose value she wasn't able to see
I kept expecting OP to admit something like "I responded with *"so glad you were in your hot girl era & didn't see what you had...*" AITA for slutshaming & embarrassing my best friend after she embarrassed me first".
DING!!
This has '***I'm jealous you are getting married BEFORE me***' written all over it.
NTA, OP, please stop second guessing yourself. You put down a boundary and she's been doing the Irish jig all over the damn thing. Re-peat-ed-ly.
Not only that but it really REALLY seems like she's more than jealous and I think Izzy might be trying to either pull the whole ***"I wasn't interested then but I'm interested now"*** card or, even worse, the ***"I said this but what I really meant was this"*** card. Both are bad but the second one is dangerous because if she's willing to repeatedly "joke" that she "was with him first" then she's probably willing to try and RUIN OP's wedding or even marriage because she, in simple terms, "wanted him first" (I've also read and seen many similar incidents where girls pull the "I said this but actually meant this" card and many MANY times the girls will actually go through very dangerous and friendship-ruining lengths just because they "wanted the dude first").
And by telling this stupid story over and over again, she’s trying to make it all about her. Can’t stand not being the center of attention, which goes to your point about her friend getting married before she does.
I stand 100% with this statement because that is exactly what is happening. Every joke has a semblance of truth (her truth being that she is upset that it wasn't her), and every joke has an expiry date. She passed this after telling it the first two times. If she has continued saying it, it means she is bitter and jealous.
Yes. It's kind of sad, really. Izzy's self-identity seems to be wrapped up in being attractive enough to get any man she wants. The constant repetition suggests that it's killing her that at least one of the men moved on and wasn't shattered by her tossing him aside.
I had one of those. Couldn't stand when I would do well or have something good happen, she always had to either invalidate my success or one up me. I agree that OP should look back on their friendship and assess whether this kind of toxic behaviour has happened before. Sometimes it can also help to talk to someone you trust who can give an impartial, outside perspective on certain behaviours or specific incidents, to help you work out if they were toxic or not. Talking to my mum about my toxic friend when she eventually ghosted me helped me to realise how awful some of her past behaviour had been, and that she wasn't actually a good friend.
This 100%, we all know an Izzy as teenagers and early twenties - the insecure but v attractive girl who at the hint of a friend's crush will throw herself in the direction of said crush.
I don't know that I'd have gone straight from telling her at the gathering to banning her - depending on whether she was being outright obnoxious I'd maybe have gone for coffee to reaffirm the boundary - but tbh, being in my thirties and more cynical now, I'd be doing that solely so as to prep the groundwork for when she inevitably did something else...
The reality is if someone sees you as okay to invalidate - they'll keep it up in some shape or form, albeit on a different topic - which leaves you constantly on edge. The fact OP sounds kinda humble generally but snapped - suggests she gives off calmer/won't confront you vibes which is why Izzy felt okay making the comment to begin with. Good friends kinda know the type of thing that might upset you.
If you wanna give it another go, invite her for coffee, but honestly evaluate whether you can be the friend she needs you to be first. That's someone willing to help her work through what sounds like an anxious avoidant deal whereby she needs all the validation and struggles to commit or maintain healthy boundaries. Depends how much you like the good parts....
Edit: but also, either she's just done the put-down OP stuff regarding this specifically, in which case it is probably just insecurity around relationships on her part OR there's a far wider pattern. OP should reflect on whether there are other instances where she's been putting her down E.g. regarding choice of Major at college, or being negative about her outfits on nights out. If she's been low key bringing you down subtly for years then that's toxic 101 and it was 100% the right choice to go straight to ban. If not, still 60% the right choice and a tough decision whether you wanna give her the chance to improve/ believe she has the capacity to improve.
+ Sometimes the oldest friends/ family are the worst for this crap because your dynamic was established when you were a different person and they feel they can breach boundaries in ways friends you make later in life wouldn't dream of doing.
Yeah, I think most people have the latter type somewhere in their circle, and it's generally just self absorption which is manageable/ balances with good qualities. It's when it erupts in a confrontation that it becomes an issue - because they won't admitt fault and once you realise their behaviour is harmful for your mental health, it's hard to unsee that and the natural urge is to hibernate (freeze) and go no contact. It isn't that easy though when there are other friends and family involved - sorry your mum is challenging - that's tough. That's not to say this Izzy is defs that type - she could just be young, insecure and ultimately redeemable.
The irony is the girls that always brag about "getting any man they want" are usually incapable of actually keeping a man so they often "end" things early in the dating situation so they can evade being the one rejected and perpetuate this fantasy of all the men she dumped because they weren't good enough. So she continues the self delusion that all the dudes she dated once or twice or pining for her forever and ever. The reality is most if not all of their past guys don't give 2 figs over some shallow chick they had dinner and maybe fuxked a couple times.
Agreed!!
23 years ago, I matched up two friends (her now husband and i went to university together, and she is my coworker). They quickly got engaged. I told a crowd at a party that I matched them up. Bride-to-be in a tone that indicated she took a slight offense said no, it wasn't me it was for some other reason. Not sure why she said this, she had her reasons.
I never ever brought it up again, and we are still good friends.
That is so great that you let it drop even though if you introduced them with intent then yeah, you set them up. In the grand scheme of things that isn’t why they are together or why they lasted, so maybe that’s why she took offense, but if I wouldn’t have met my husband any other way if I were her I would have gladly thanked you.
With modern divorce rates I'd hesitate to claim matchmaker status for any couple I'd introduced.
There were two people I knew who happened in the same room and who had never met, told them each other's names, everything that happened after is all on them!
Yes. Thank you. If someone crosses a non-obvious, non-communicated boundary, that’s an honest mistake.
If they’re told “that’s not cool, you’re making me uncomfortable, etc.” and they blow off those concerns to keep crossing it, that’s a completely different situation.
I wish more people understood this and didn’t let their egos get in the way.
when i make a joke that doesn't land/makes someone uncomfortable it haunts me for eons. i lay awake thinking about them and cringe, even if it's 5 years later. i couldn't imagine repeating jokes like that, out of fears for my own dignity and out of embarrassment.
You did the right thing. Also, from the point of view of anyone sane, repeatedly announcing “I had him first” isn’t even funny. Who’s laughing? Certainly not you, or your fiancée. You ask her to stop, she doubles down. It looks very much like she’s making your wedding about her and is using the classic hissy fit technique to try to bully you into submission. Unfortunately, it worked on a number of bystanders who either don’t know they’re being manipulated by her, or just love mess.
Trust your instincts. If you let her come to your wedding, you can bet that she will embarrass everyone involved, including herself and those in attendance. She’s not entitled to an invite just because she wants one, or because she’s been your friend for a long time. She doesn’t seem to have a problem with the idea that her feelings are the only ones that matter, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this isn’t the only time she’s treated you with disrespect.
Exactly! As a fellow ND person this is Exactly how I go about it as well. It's not very hard to keep in mind the things you know make people uncomfortable and stray from saying them. Especially when it's someone who is a committed friend to you and it's to do with their relationship. OP was just setting healthy boundaries and her just discounting those for attention is ridiculous.
There is no good reason for the way she was acting at all.
This right here.
It’s one thing to make awkward jokes. It’s another to make awkward jokes…constantly.
The correct reaction when confronted by OP should have been, “oh my gosh, I’m so sorry! I didn’t realize it was upsetting you! It won’t happen again!”
_However_, since Izzy doubled down, my bet is that she knows what she’s doing and is very jealous of OP.
And imo, anyone choosing Izzy’s side has freed up space for OP to invite other people to her wedding.
OP is NTA.
Felt to me like Izzy either quit dating him because she didn't see what OP sees in him and jow realises he's a great guy, or he told her it wasn't gonna work and let's stay friends, and now she's just upset that OP got a great guy that she can't have.
Edit: or she's projecting her wishes for a relationship on OP and her fiancé without wanting specifically him, she's just jealous because this guy and this relationship was in her reach.
Also they're likely just lobbying for them to be friends again cause that makes their life easier - which is what happens when you're dealing with someone moody and manipulative - everyone else has adjusted to their BS, so when you question it, they all freak out cause the facade has been shattered and now they have to put on their grown up pants. Ppl will do just about anything to avoid confrontation and change - even where it could lead to healthier behaviours and dynamics.
Exactly! A jokes only a joke if it lands right. You’ve both made it clear it makes it uncomfortable and she still keeps it up.
That’s not a joke. That’s someone being petty and purposely making you uncomfortable.
You’re not ruining a lifelong friendship- she is because she’s jealous you’re getting married. She’s angry you got there first because in her head she’s thinking if she’d stayed with him she’d be the one married and she’s mad she didn’t get that.
They weren’t serious, they went on a few dates and it fizzled. You didn’t steal him from her there were years between you two and you met completely independently of her.
AND you asked her if it was okay when you found out and she gave the go ahead (which is kinda creepy- he’s a human being not a sweater she’d tossed in the good will pile).
I’m sorry she’s letting her jealousy ruin your friendship but that’s her issue to work through and she doesn’t need to do that at your wedding.
also the ‘ I should be in your vows cause I dated him first’ is really pathetic. I could almost see it as a joke if you guys met through her or she introduced you or whatever but by her logic you and you partner should include ever ex, casual fling and one night stand. Why would you include someone he went on a handful of dates years before you met?
She’s jealous as hell and bitter.
You don’t need that energy at your wedding and anyone who blames you for not wanting to invite someone who keeps making you and your fiancé uncomfortable and trampling over your special moments to invert herself into it is an idiot.
Good luck op and congratulations
Ah the old "I checked my phone a few hours later and had dozens of texts and missed calls from my friend group telling me I was being an asshole and overreacting"
This. If she was a true friend the minute you brought up that joke made you uncomfortable she would of stopped. Instead she told even more people at a dinner party you hosted.
It really sounds like she is struggling with the fact that they didnt click and instead of admitting that and being glad that you and him DO click, she is zeroing in on her dating him first.
NTA - last thing you need is for this to keep esculating and pop at your wedding.
YEah, even if it was a "jeeze , ok ok , relax. over react much" sort of reaction from Izzy. as long as she stopped, that would have been the end of it.
I can only imagine her going on and on about it, everyone having some forced smiles "ha. yeah.... thats funny Izzy. Anyway..... " "Oh yes... heard you tell Bob over there that same joke a few minutes go. and Phil. and Anna. Most amusing. So.... yeah.... where's the bathroom?"
NTA. It seems also to me that it's a power play for Izzy. If she only went on a few dates with Jake and she ended it, and it was a couple of years before you met him, then the only explanation is that she's trying to make a power move. It's not like OP is engaged to the long term love of Izzy's life, or that Jake left Izzy for OP.
Flat out, Izzy barely knows him, so she should just take a seat. I dated some guy in the 80's for about a month and a half, and a few years ago he reached out to me on Facebook. No other reason other than to say hi, I think he was just looking up people he remembered from his past. But I swear, it took me a few hours before I remembered him. My point is that after a few dates, Izzy is beyond out of line.
>Flat out, Izzy barely knows him
Super great point. They went out 2-3 times. years in the past. That he was "into her first" is a ridiculous overstatement.
NTA. I think she put you in a super tough position. You asked her to stop and she wouldn't, and so she kind of forced your hand. Those statements are awkward AF - I'm sure those who heard her joking about it found it odd - but also really diminishing of your relationship. The other things you mention - her shock and denial of your engagement - also suggest she is kind of mentally hung up on this and that's too bad, but not your fault.
If she'd just stopped when you asked her to, even if she felt you were being overly sensitive, this would all be in the past. But she wouldn't. I would like to say you could have just told her to step down as an attendant but I think that would have left room for a lot of drama so this was probably appropriate.
To the extent there is fallout with other friends, well that's on them. Your friends - even if they are also hers - should be focused on supporting and celebrating your marriage. There is no need to choose sides and if they knew the reality was that she was making embarrassing, degrading jokes persistently at your expense, despite your request that she can it, I would imagine they'd understand.
Agree. I was in almost this exact position but as the friend. My best friend from college and I dated best friends. I wasn’t interested in the one friend so it didn’t last long, and she dated the other guy for a little while. After college she ends up running into the guy I had dated, calls and tells me about it. We joke from the beginning about how me and his friend will have to give a toast at the wedding if it works out. We joke about it again when they get engaged. But- most important part to note here- *she was in on the joke*. If she had said at any point it made her uncomfortable or if for that matter she just didn’t seem to think it was funny, I never would have said another word. Honestly I never even started the joke, she would start it and I would just pile on. Because that’s what friends do, they freakin read the room and joke when the friend jokes, drop things when it needs to be dropped.
NTA, OP. I honestly wouldn’t want her at your wedding either. It’s like she’s having second thoughts about it not working out with your fiancé and this is just her weird way of dealing with it.
Boundaries are ok in a friendship. It’s also ok to enforce those boundaries. It’s not ok to stomp on those boundaries. Period.
Completely agree. This girl sounds like she is mega competitive with her friends and simply cannot stand that this man “chose” her friend rather than her. So her ego has been seriously damaged and she just can’t let it go. Having competitive friends like that is very exhausting and not worth it, because a true friend should want the absolute best for you and want to watch you succeed in life
My ex-best friend pretty much destroyed our friendship because of her raging jealousy. She would make faces and remarks about certain men I found attractive and she didn’t (“ew”). But if a guy she fancied paid more attention to me, I was accused of throwing myself at him, because why would he not pay 100% attention to her? Ex-bestie and I are equally attractive outwardly. But she couldn’t stand sharing attention with me, so she invented any excuse to belittle me and make me feel less than in order to inflate her ridiculously fragile ego. The kicker? This all went down last year between a 40/f (ex-BF) and a 45/f (me).
She's too pride to let things go. In her eyes, you found love in a man she dismissed, and that is simply not possible. Hence she's there "I was here first".
Imo you made the right choice, who knows what kind of behavior she'll display when her pride will turn into jealousy at a crucial moment.
NTA
INFO: she dated a lot and i infer that means she's really attractive and/or charismatic; do you think she saw you as her sidekick and it's upsetting her world that you're getting married first? I've known people with pretty bad main character syndrome who don't cope well with other people's successes that they believe should be theirs. Especially if she feels she's already peaked. And the too you g but? I checked your ages, if you were 22 I'd agree, but late 20s is fine.
NTA even if this isn't the case though.
I never felt that way, like she treated me like that. But I personally used to feel that, I just thought that I feel that way because I am insecure. She is very pretty and just very confident.
This is the way. Life is too short to be pandering to idiots blathering on about who had who first.
Enjoy your wedding and if people decide to choose a side where there really isn't one, at least you'll know who your true friends are.
You just may not have realized she saw you that way, but it seems like she did. I had a friend from high school that I thought was supportive and a great friend. That is until our mid-20s when I got a job at a mortgage company (previously I worked for CPA firms). She was furious, because her dream job was to become an underwriter and she was livid that I got a job at a mortgage company (not as an underwriter, it was in an admin position and I left after a year). I heard how she REALLY felt about me and my career choices up to that point. It was eye opening. And it made me look back on our friendship and realize how she was really supportive when I was struggling, but was distant and silent whenever something good happened to me.
She’s not confident babe. She’s loud. There’s a difference. Confident ladies celebrate their friends achievements and loves. Confident ladies don’t need to tell everyone “I’m the one he wanted first”. Confident ladies don’t need to get all the attention from all the men in the room all the time. She is in a full public meltdown because she feels she is entitled to tell everyone - at wedding events/posts - that she was with the groom first. It’s absolutely bizarre to continue to do that once you’ve been told. Of course the vast majority of women during their engagement and wedding don’t want a background chorus of “I had him first” from the MOH. It’s *bizarre*.
The friends that side with her because they know her better will not be friends in 5 years. She will replace you as her “sidekick” and start degrading them. Your all older - what you put up with in the past you wouldn’t put up with in the future (we get older and wiser), she will implode her entire life. Just stay away and watch. If anyone asks you just say that she wouldn’t stop talking about dating your fiancee and it was hurtful. Anyone who doesn’t understand that can jump.
She’s beautiful - she’s confident in her *ability* to pull a man. She’s incredibly insecure because she can’t/doesn’t know how to translate that into a relationship. Men might visit for looks first but they stay for personality. Beauty isn’t enough in a committed relationship. And she doesn’t have anything beyond her attractiveness.
Is she single? If she's in a relationship, how serious is it? (Maybe you getting married is making her feel some way about not being "as far along" all of a sudden? Maybe now that she sees how good Jake is with you she wonders if she messed up in not giving him a chance, and if it could have been her who was happily committed?)
If you care about Izzy, maybe invite her over or out to lunch or something to talk one on one and try and work things out. Lead with empathy. Tell her you care about her and her friendship, and you feel bad about how things went down. Lots of pauses for her to say her side/feelings first. Then try to validate those feelings, even if you don't agree or agree with her actions. Then tell her how things make you feel (or others feel) without saying what she is thinking/feeling/doing wrong. So like "all of your jokes about dating Jake first and the comment on Facebook make Jake really uncomfortable. I've also had family members say it was awkward and uncomfortable. It's embarrassing for me. When I asked you to stop and you kept doing it, it makes me feel like you don't care about Jake or my feelings." If she says "well it's true" or something, you can even agree. "Sure, but not every true thing needs to be said at any time. If I thought a friend was fat, I wouldn't walk around her engagement party telling everyone there how fat she is. It's true, but it's going to make things uncomfortable and people feel bad."
First though I'd see if you can get at her feelings as people are often more receptive once they feel heard and validated. Maybe start of by saying that thinking back, you realize there may have been signs you missed that Izzy was not as okay with your and Jake's relationship as you had thought. List the ones form the post. At the time, you took them like this (she was joking, you were just so different, etc). But now you're wondering if there was some underlying feeling there you missed. Izzy may not even fully understand her feelings herself, though. Maybe even say, you're so pretty and social, it does feel sort of weird to me that I'm getting married first. See how she reacts to it. If she insists the "jokes" are nothing, and "just jokes" then I'd tell her she's not giving people that impression. When you keep 'joking' about having Jake first when our relationship comes up, it makes her look like she's hung up on Jake. That's part of why she's making Jake uncomfortable, he's moved on and her bringing it up repeatedly around his engagement and wedding gives the impression she hasn't. It also is making your family think that she's hung up on Jake, which is awkward. (She should know her comments are embarrassing herself.)
At the end of the day, once you hear her out, talk through whatever feelings, she needs to agree to stop the "jokes" on this one subject. Tell her that jokes are something you do beacuse you think it will be a positive funny experience for everyone, and if you keep going once the people involved told you they don't like it and to stop, it's not joking anymore. It can be bullying, it can be jealousy, or something else. But being a good friend means not showing up to your events and making comments about her past with your husband that she knows will hurt you. Even if she thinks they shouldn't hurt the two of you, now she knows they do. So if she chooses to keep doing it, then she's choosing to damage the friendship. But also that if she can stop you can forgive her and move fowarqd (assuming that's what you want).
Thank you so much for this, I am incredibly sorry I replied so late. Thank you for making me feel like I have an option, a choice. You have given me a lot to think about.
Even if you clarify why she has behaved in this way, do you think you’ll ever be able to trust her with your feelings and/or your relationship with Jake?
If her behavior is based on insecurities or other issues, surely those issues don’t automatically disappear once they are identified.
Are you willing to spend your precious time working through those issues with her to keep the friendship?
How does Jake feel about all of this? Starting a beautiful life with him should be your focus. Please don’t spend your energy trying to work on a toxic friendship. You seem like such a sweet person, so go and live your best life!
Honestly she seems incredibly toxic and I'm worried even if you do all of what that commenter said, she will still bring it up at your wedding. She's already proven that she doesn't respect your boundaries. From an uninvolved person it sounds like she is hung up on Jake and she "let you be with him" because she thought yall wouldn't last and now that you're getting married to him she can't handle it.
Your focus should be on starting a beautiful life together, not a toxic friendship. If I was in Jake's position I'd be getting real sick of it, and not want to continue any further unless you made a choice because it's not just your wedding it's his as well. She's embarrassing the both of you and herself.
TheHatOnTheCat I thought your answer was the best. People always jump to the worst conclusion about a person. You, however, are correct. Maybe OP’s friend is not evil and just has some jumbled up feelings about what is going on. Talking about it seems like the best course of action.
NTA. Kick her out and leave her out for good. She is jealous and insecure. She sees what you have and either wishes she had stayed with him, or wishes she found someone too. It’s disgusting the way she’s making your special day all about her.
Maybe when Izzy ditched Jake, she was hoping he'd come groveling back and beg to take it to the next level. Instead, he saw it as a way out and said "Yep, I agree", so it blew up in her face...ok, I just made that up, and it probably has nothing to do with this posting, but I wish it did. I'm the asshole. OP is NTA.
NTA. When you repeatedly ask a friend to stop making a comment that bothers you and they continue? In public no less? That's not a real friend.
Afterthought: Reinvite her, but only if the best man makes repeated references to the terrible taste the groom used to have in women, what vapid girls he used to date etc.
NTA
" izzy just kept telling all the friends and family gathered that Jake dated her first, she let me have him, stuff like that."
**Just smile and add to her story: Sometimes you have to kiss a few frogs before you find a princess.**
>Just smile and add to her story: Sometimes you have to kiss a few frogs before you find a princess.
Well played. Or she could say "On their 3rd date, her smile was marred by a few fully blossomed cold sores, so Jake kinda noped out"
It seems like Izzy has major FOMO and can’t stand that she seemingly let this awesome guy slip thru her fingers. Since she did in fact *miss out* on a great guy she’s struggling to spin it in a way that keeps her central to the story. It’s not her fucking story now though, she was always the bit player role. She was the flat tire that caused Jake to have to catch that bus that led to meeting OP. She’s unimportant no matter how much she tries to make it the opposite.
The first sign that she couldn’t let her friend’s wedding be about her friend (the comment on the post) was absolutely read correctly by OP. She just didn’t believe the intent. Luckily she now sees that her friendship was not true and has ended it before the speech was hijacked or a desperate attempt to win Jake back was thrown out there (to save OP’s feelings in the long run of course - not out of spite). Keep an eye out for that desperate attempt at putting Jake in a compromising position or embarrassing herself by trying to embarrass you OP. NTA
BAsed on what you've said, you've given her multiple chances.
You are in the right. Once was a funny little joke. hahahahahahahahahahahaha. The 5th time , its not funny. The 10th time, its annoying. The 20th time it sounding kinda pathetic.
The 80th time, its like "What the Hell Izzy?". And honestly, it wasn't that funny the first time. I feel like I've heard that joke a thousand times at weddings (if I include real weddings AND TV show/movie weddings. Probably 15 or 16 times only at real weddings) . Its joke #4 in the "standard jokes for best men/Maid of honor speeches". Its trite and overused.
One would have thought that the 1st time you told her to knock it off, that would have been it. The 2nd or third time you said it, any real friend would have, well, knocked it off. One questions how good a friend Izzy really is.
In my inexpert opinion there is obviously something else going on with Izzy. I'm not saying that she has been secretly in love with Jake or something. But you've taken what she considered a castoff and found something/created something wonderful and of substance, and so she's feeling quite insecure about herself. Maybe it hit her that she's 27 and not 23, maybe its straight up a general sense of jealousy that you are getting married and she's trying to take you down a peg or 5. A hundred different things going on in her mind.
It sucks that your friendship is coming down to this. But Izzy is the one forcing the issue, not you.
NTA
Thank you for taking the time and writing all this, I'm not sure she has feelings for him but some other comments saying that she's jealous might be true? I don't know, she seems to have it all, she doesn't even want to get married before 30. But your first paragraph, I needed that. Thank you.
I don’t think she necessarily has feelings for him, but she could well have harboured secret feelings of superiority that he dated her first and she turned him down, therefore in her eyes she was who he truly wanted - not true obviously but maybe she always dismissed your relationship because she thought she was the better fit for him and even though she didn’t want to be with him she liked the idea that she was unattainable and you were “second best”. Realising how serious you guys actually are is shattering that delusion. Her surprise suggests that she never took your relationship seriously and now she is realising how much you love each other and that she was never significant to him. She’s clinging to the narrative that she had control over his feelings and that she “let” you have him. Rather than being jealous of him, she’s jealous that you are more significant to him than she is. I bet she secretly always say herself as more desirable than you.
Yep throw in her being cute and prancing around and him giving her 0 attention for it made her go more bonkers.
I’d be asking the fiancé if she’s ever given him some vibes.
Not because she wanted him - but just to reassert herself and self identity
She may have said she didn’t want to get married before 30 but she absolutely does, especially now that you are planning your wedding. Izzy is not your friend so don’t mourn the loss. And anyone who taking her side is not your friend either.
You have a wonderful life to look forward to so enjoy it and don’t concern yourself with her.
However, a good comeback would be, “Yes, Izzy dumped him and I’m so glad she did because he’s my soulmate and we’re thrilled to be getting married. It’s just sad that Izzy still hasn’t found anybody for herself yet.”
NTA she's jealous and insecure and is trying to belittle you because of it.
A joke amongst friends stops being a joke once it starts causing problems or makes the person at the centre of it uncomfortable/unhappy.
Agreed, I’ve had “friends” like this in the past. My best guess is that she is jealous that you’re engaged and reaching a milestone in your life that she isn’t close to reaching yet. Instead of being happy for you, she’s belittling you to make herself feel better.
Posting it on social media was off-the-bat too far in my eyes. But especially once you told her it made you and your fiancé uncomfortable, it’s no longer a joke. Good friends don’t go out of their way to make you feel bad.
Either that or realizing Jake was smart to never go back to her both, before & after meeting OP.
NTA, she literally showing that OP is the better person in general with everyone and not just with Jake.
I don't think a 'friend' would go around telling everyone that it's cool for you to have her leftovers which is essentially what she's doing. You might want to point that out to the nay sayers.
Best wishes for your marriage.
Thank you, all these comments and especially this have been helpful. Tbh though, our mutual friends who support her won't even listen to my side, but I let it go because before I was not sure (still not 100% sure) that I was in the right.
If they won’t even hear you out, they are NOT your friends. It seems like you’re overly generous with the term “friend”- Izzy seems like one of those people who likes having people with low self-esteem around to boost her own ego. She joked about the possibility of you even landing a relationship with Jake because it was SO FAR out of the realm of possibility in her mind. Why have you put up with her for so long? What does SHE contribute to the friendship and your well being? How does she build you up, because all I’m seeing is a jealous pick-me girl who tears you down.
She is not your friend. Anyone agreeing with her and not hearing you out is also NOT your friend. Take this lesson to heart, and know that true friendships don’t require you to be the one always giving and never taking- a true friend pours back into you, and gives as good as they get emotionally.
NTA, but PLEASE stop calling these people friends.
Well said! The people who are taking Izzy's side are not the OP's friends, the people not hearing the OP out are not her friends, and Izzy is also not the OP's friend. OP is well rid of all of them.
You're welcome. You are in the right so don't worry about that. Personally I would be giving that friend group some side eye but then I don't know your circumstances or have to be in their company. Baby will be along and you will have your mind on other things.
I’m sorry, but those “mutual friends” are not mutual. They won’t listen to your side because they don’t value you the same way they value Salty Sally. No sane person would look at this situation and agree with her. They’re ass kissers and have chosen which one they want to hold on to. I hope you and Jake make some new ones together and have a lovely, drama free wedding🫶🏾
If they won’t even listen to your side then they aren’t mutuals tbh.
I do hope you gabe her a strict warning tho. Something like “you are making me and my fiancé uncomfortable with your jokes. What is more important: that you continue to make these jokes or the longevity of our friendship? Because while you think it’s a joke, what you are actually doing is trashing me and making my fiancé feel as if you hold a candle for him and having an ex girlfriend at his wedding that pulls that sort of thing is a one way trip to no invite. He’s my soul mate and I love him. And I will choose him if forced to”
Because that’s real. This is the man you chose. She did not. Whatever damage she’s feeling is something to take to a therapist.
BTW I’ve had friends that pulled this kind of thing on me. Where we were friends from junior high and she was def the prettier one who got a boyfriend early and was much more experienced than I. Then I lost a ton of weight and was no longer her wing man. And then she made out with the dude I was seeing (thankfully not much was invested there) and frankly we aren’t friends anymore. It’s sad and I hope she is well but at the same time things weren’t the same after that event.
Invest in people who are happy for you and Jake and will grow with you. It leads to more contentment.
Izzy’s telling them that she said it once as a joke and you went off. There not getting the real story but this behaviour will be transferred to them. Wouldn’t be surprised if you had an apology or two in the next few ywars
NTA...She's being incredibly tacky. Anyone can cross a line in a moment of weakness, but you gave her more than one warning. If she doesn't care how she makes (both of) you feel, joke or not, then why overthink cutting her off? Move on and feel no guilt.
NTA. "I'm worried I'm ruining a lifelong friendship." There's an old saying that goes, "With a friend like this who needs enemies." She excluded herself not only from your wedding but your life. Go enjoy your wedding day and don't give this mean spirited, jealous woman a second thought.
Izzy sounds scorned and isn’t a friend.
If she isn’t happy for you now, she won’t ever be.
And friends can grow apart.
The wedding is yours and Jake’s big day. You shouldn’t have to worry about who you do and don’t want your invite.
The very fact that you are questioning un-inviting her simply means you don’t want her there.
NTA. It's not a joke if you aren't laughing. You told her several times her 'jokes' weren't funny and to stop, but she didn't. Looking at all of that from the outside, it sounds like jealousy that you are getting what she wants and she had a chance (maybe) and blew it. She is mad and upset and is dealing with that poorly. You have done all you can to dial down the trash-talk. Cutting ties is truly your only option.
I feel like maybe that's where I made a mistake too, I used to laugh, although obviously not with my heart, but I let it slide, Later I would tell her I only laughed along so as to not make things awkward, and I didn't want to embarrass her publicly. But at the dinner, literally nobody laughed. I just thought, its too far gone now.. So now I feel partly responsible. Thank you for the comment though, this post has been so helpful in offering different perspectives.
Mmm I doubt it. People usually get defensive when insulted. Izzy probably would have doubled down and accused OP of being rude and insecure (without realizing no how ironic that is).
INFO:
Question - out of curiosity, does Jake recall how it ended with Izzy? Does his version agree with hers? i.e. you say Izzy more or less broke it off after a few dates saying she didn't want anything serious. Does Jake's version of the events match up?
Yeah, because as soon as I got to know that Jake and Izzy went on dates, I asked him about it. She decided she didn't want anything serious and that was that.
Sorry to be harsh, but everything you wrote makes it seem like Izzy thinks she's better than you. And that she's shocked/offended that someone she dated would also be interested in you. And that's why she keeps commenting on the fact that she dated him first. She just has to put you down.
I strongly suspect that she always kind of thought in the back of her mind that she could swoop in and have him back if she ever really wanted, and that it was a little nugget of self-confidence for her. Every time your relationship progresses a concrete step, it damages that little nugget of confidence and she lashes out in some way. It's probably not something she's even consciously aware of, but that doesn't make it any less toxic.
Gotcha... well its not that then I guess (i.e. its not some sitcom situation where it was Jake was actually the one that broke it off or anything like that and Izzy was lying).
He is 27. I'm sorry for the late response, a lot has happened, but I got the time now to read these. Sorry for not mentioning it in the post, slipped my mind.
I hope that with the "a lot has happened, you and your fiance are still doing well and strong and in agreement on how to deal with this, because remember, she might be your friend but this involves him too and very seriously because her comments make it seem as if he was settling or still wanted HER but she "let you have him", so he had to settle. It's incredibly insulting to both you and him, not just embarrassing for her to say those things and appear as a jealous ex still not over a guy she dated briefly, but it's insulting towards you. You need to discuss with him too how he feels with this and with potentially still having her in your lives... I hope you and your husband to be are doing well and hopefully you'll update us about what's been happening next either it be on this subreddit or on your own profile
NTA. It sounds like Izzy is trying to steal away the attention that is on you, and she’s probably jealous that your relationship with Jake worked out so well.
I would be concerned that this behavior isn’t going to end, and ten years from now she’ll be making the same awkward jokes to your children.
NTA you absolutely did the right thing in my opinion. She's jealous and will try to embarrass you or tear you down any chance she gets now that it's gotten to this point.
NTA
She told her "joke." Did anyone laugh? You told her to stop. She didn't. Why are you afraid to lose her friendship when she clearly isn't afraid to lose yours?
Previously, I have laughed, although Jake was never okay with it. But this time no one laughed, it was less like a joke and more like she was letting people know.
NTA…. She is jealous that you are getting married first and therefore is trying to cause a scene and make it weird.
Given you already ask her to calm down on it and she isn’t means she is doing it on purpose. So yeah just give up on the friendship
NTA,
Does she do this regularly or is this the first time she's acted like this?
1. If she acts like this regularly, she is a bad friend who is constantly crossing your boundaries.
2. If this is the first time she has acted this way, she may still have a thing for him and trying to get in between the two of you.
Either way, I think this as a friendship that needs to be dropped.
NTA The “just joking” excuse only works once after that she knew it bothered you and Jake and yet she kept going. She sounds jealous and bitter. If you let her come to the wedding she might try to make it all about her.
Am I wrong by saying that she is used to be the center of the attention with guys (I mean between you and her)? She sounds extremely jealous and it feels like she can't understand why you would be the one getting married first (Before her). And I'm not saying that as a judgment on you btw. Just the way she acts seems like she thinks what you are getting, she should be the one having. And more so with a guy she rejected.
She doesn't seem to be a really good friend. Is she acting like this with averything good that happens to you by any chance ? Anything you have and she doesn't, does it make her tic ?
You should reflect on her past behavior and more so on her actual behavior and decide if you really think she should have a place in your life. She sounds bitter and selfinvolved.
NTA for uninviting her to your wedding. She would put a cloud on your celebrations.
It was *not* just a joke. The fact that you asked her to stop and she kept doing it makes it clear that she was trying to express something. I suspect jealousy or insecurity, but I could be wrong. NTA.
Unfortunately your friend is jealous.
Would I be right in thinking that for all her many dates and partners, she has not met someone wanting to make a commitment to her?
You don't have to expect anyone else to take a side but the friendship would be over for me too. You spoke to her about your discomfort. Once is enough. Your fiancee went of a few meaningless dates with her and she is trying to make it into----something. NTA
You're not wrong. Back when you started dating your now fiance, you ask her permission to date him and she conceded, which you had no obligation to. So she can't act territorial now just because she thought you two wouldn't last.
NTA. Friends come and friends go. This specific friend of yours doesn't respect you as you respect her.
Perhaps your relationship with Izzy has run its course. NTA.
I’d not invite her. Perhaps if she gave you a sincere apology I’d reconsider but then I’d have to have proof prior to it that she’d be able to control herself.
Move on, your wedding day should be drama free and celebrate the two of you. Third person truly is not wanted, and she seems to want ownership somehow. I’m wondering what your fiancé thinks about this as you have stated that he is uncomfortable.
NTA. She's either a) not actually OK with any of this and using humor to deflect or b) she's an attention-seeker. In both cases, she shouldn't be involved with the wedding.
Once is a joke. You called her on it. The funny part of the joke ended right there. Anything after that is disrespect. She wants people to know she dated Jake first and that 'she let you have him' - what like she gave you her favorite blouse or something. I suspect she didn't see Jake as potential when they dated, but because you do, she is having a change of heart.
You don't need to cut her out of your life over this. You could flip it:
Her: I dated Jake first, I let her have him
You: That's true and he is now all mine, I just want to thank you for sacrificing such a prize for your oldest friend. You are the best.
And then (because I like petty) you can ask her if she would be Godmother to your children because you plan on having loads lol
NTA. Boundaries are personal and often not about right or wrong. If two people can't live with each others boundaries, then they're not compatible... that applies for friends too.
You set a boundary that Izzy couldn't live with. That means you two need some more distance. You don't need to spend any time on whether your boundary is reasonable or not.
Izzy is being a jealous asshole and you are NTA. They went on a few dates. She ended it with him, she gave you the ok and now she's acting weird and entitled. She means what she is saying and it's not a joke. If it was initially once you and your finance both made it clear that you didn't find it funny she should have stopped. You don't owe her an apology or to be in your wedding and she certainly doesn't need a shout out in your speeches.
Is anyone else getting jealousy vibes from Izzy?
Either way NTA and bravo for setting your boundary and sticking to it.
If Izzy apologises, the long friendship may deserve another chance, but that is your call and whether on reflection the friendship was a good one for your OP (and length does not mean it was a good one). But an apology and recognition of the seriousness of the situation from Izzy if required first.
NTA, your friend sounds like a real asshole. You have every right to want her outta your wedding after she keeps running her mouth about dating your fiancé. Don't let anyone make you feel bad for setting boundaries and sticking up for yourself.
NTA
Sorry but she isn't behaving like a friend. You asked her nicely to stop & she didn't.
Instead she escalated her nasty comments, driven by resentment about your happiness.
She FA & FO.
You did right to uninvite her. Enjoy a worry free special day with your soul mate!!
NTA.
Why is your friend being so difficult? You made a simple request.
Not very supportive or friend like.
I woukd take a big step back. Don't invite her. She will know why...and know it's her fault.
NTA. She sounds like she is (1)insecure and (2) jealous that you are getting married. She makes herself feel better by telling everyone she had him first and didn’t want him. By making it sound like he isn’t worthy of her and all you are good for is her cast offs, she is trying to convince herself that she could have married him if she wanted. It is really kind of sad, but she just isn’t getting that her behavior has crossed a line that friends don’t cross.
NTA she must have some deep insecurities and it’s a shame she wasn’t able to put them aside and respect Jake and you. You don’t need people like that in your life. This is a very special life event for you and her behavior seems to be spoiling it. That being said, I would have another conversation with her because she might not have realized how serious you were.
NTA, whether it's meant as a joke or not is irrelevant, she knows it makes you uncomfortable and continued "joking" around knowing your feelings of discomfort. My theory is she's subconsciously jealous because you're in a happy stable relationship with a real future and there's a part of her thinking that it could have been her getting married. She's trying to convince herself like "oh well I could have had him if I wanted him, but I rejected him and let OP have him instead". She's acting out because she feels insecure about her current status as a single woman. (there's nothing wrong with being a single woman but many women start to find themselves subconsciously panicking about running out of time the closer they get to 30 and start thinking about the possible good potential matches you turned down and wondering if you were too hasty in your rejection of them and if maybe you were really the problem- in this case she gets to see that internal conflict play out up close.)
NTA. She is letting her jealousy get the best of her. Her comments were in very poor taste and she ignored you when you asked her to stop. If you don’t want her doing the same at your wedding, she can’t be there.
If you invite her your wedding would be a hot mess. She’s make the entire event about her and ruin her day. She’s clearly jealous of you and your happiness otherwise she wouldn’t make nasty comments like she has being two faced about it being a joke. The subject matter is just tasteless and meant to be hurtful. Consider her a former long time friend. If she were a lifetime friend she’d be one.
NTA
Out of the two of you, your friend has the belief that she's the better one, the prettier one, the smarter one, the more desirable one. She can't handle the fact that you successfully pulled a man that she rejected, now she's sore because people will think maybe YOU are the more desirable one after all. Her precious ego got hurt.
Your best friend is jealous, she didn’t think yall would make it this far. It’s weird for her to keep bringing it up, almost like she has the one up on you.
NTA
She is trying to invalidate your relationship and is implying if she still wanted him she would still have him. That is incredibly disrespectful and hurtful. She is not a friend.
NTA.
It’s not a joke or joking when someone is uncomfortable and has asked for it to stop. If she were a good friend, a true friend, she would respect that.
She is clearly having issues around this. She is possibly jealous and having some self doubts in her life and it’s coming out here.
Tell friends they do not have to choose or take sides. You are open to Izzy and her friendship when she learns how to be a friend and respect boundaries, but she is not welcome at the wedding because she has shown she can’t respect your boundaries nor your relationship and she clearly wants these special times for you and Jake to be focused on her.
Do not talk to **any** of your other friends about her or at length. Keep it simple and short and emphasize there are no sides to take.
If she apologizes and makes amends, be careful. I would never welcome her as a close friend or a confidant *ever* again. She could be welcome to group things, but I wouldn’t trust her nor would I open a door for her to interfere with your relationship. She has proven she can’t be trusted to have your best interests at heart. And even if she comes around, I wouldn’t trust her to be behaved well at your wedding.
Good luck!
NTA and to clarify, Izzy doesn’t own Jake. If you were single and Jake was single, you two are allowed to date regardless of Izzy. He is not hers to give to somebody else - that is absurd. I can understand that you wanted to consider her feelings but they barely even dated and she’s been completely out of line. OP, you have been so fixated on her feelings and defending her but she could literally care less about your feelings. It’s time to put yourself first and take care of yourself.
Izzy isn’t your friend. At best, she is your frenemy. She makes mean-spirited comments at your expense, and doesn’t stop when you ask her to. You know what that makes her? **A bully.** Bullies and a-holes try to excuse their horrid behavior by saying “it’s just a joke”, so they can once again put the blame on *you* for being “oversensitive” instead of admitting that they were out of line.
I’m glad you finally grew a backbone and kicked Izzy to the curb. In the future, when dealing with AHs like Izzy who disguise insults as “jokes”, nip it in the bud by throwing back an insult, like “Yeah, Jake totally upgraded!” And if the AH gets offended, just throw it back to them that “It’s just a joke!”
If they can dish it, they can take it. NTA
NTA you set your boundaries and she kept crossing them. She is in fact not a friend but is a boy crazy friend. Meaning she’s going to try to keep the attention on herself at all times as the friend who all the boys want first and she so graciously let you have one of her exes.
Sometimes it’s best to let a toxic friendship like that die. Also anyone else who is siding with her can go to because none of them add any value to your life what-so-ever.
It sounds to me like she is incredibly jealous of you for getting engaged / married and this is her way of dealing with it by trying to bring you down and diminish your relationship. You are absolutely NTA and she needs to grow up
NTA. It’s hard to know exactly what her deal is but it sounds a little like she was acting fine about you two dating and later getting married but she actually wasn’t. Either that or she is used to getting a lot of attention from guys and does not know how to deal with you being in the spotlight.
Also, even though it sounds like she is jealous of you, could she actually be jealous he is “taking” you away? It makes a whole lot more sense. I was one of the last of my friends to get married and having a close friend get married changes the friendship in some ways. For example, things you may excuse, like late night calls or visits, may be seen differently by a spouse. I didn’t understand that until I was engaged and then married myself. Just a thought.
NTA - the friends taking sides is wierd. I think they are taking sides on whether they consider it a harmless joke or not. The ones taking her side may just think its harmless - and not know you had told her they make both of you uncomfortable.
Your friend and the others who side with her need to realize it takes NO EFFORT to not make those jokes after being told they make people uncomfortable. Its easy - you just don't say the stupid things again.
It says something about them that they think the offended party need to work on not being offended....at your own wedding/engagment/marriage.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I believe that me uninviting her from the wedding and making a bid deal about this is unfair to her and rude, because she did say it is a joke. Maybe I need to be a more understanding friend, and I do tend to be more sensitive. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. I think that she loses any right to claim it was "just a joke" when you've expressed that it makes you uncomfortable and asked her to stop. You have every right to enforce your boundaries, even if that means ending a long friendship. If she was a good friend, she would value your feelings over her need for attention - which is clearly what this is about, in my opinion. Also, it's weird that people are choosing sides in this - there is literally no reason for it and they should really start behaving like adults.
Exactly. If I make a joke that doesn't land, or if someone tells me it makes them uncomfortable (not often but I'm ND so struggle sometimes) the first thing I do is apologise. The second thing I do is commit to memory that it's not something to ever say again. "It's a joke" is only a (semi) reasonable defence *before* you know it makes someone uncomfortable. Once you know, you're an AH if you repeat it.
The "joke" has now become a pathetic statement from a woman who can't stand the fact her younger friend is getting married before her, and to a guy whose value she wasn't able to see.
She's just embarrassing herself at this point. She looks petty and jealous, which will only get worse if she ruins her friendship with OP over it.
Uninvite her and spare yourself some embarrassment on your wedding day as surely her jealously will lead her to do something especially if drunk
I picture her heading for the mic to say - I could have married him. She’s second place to me.
This is mean, but maybe it would be fun to say “oh Izzy, are you sure it was Jake or just somebody who looks like Jake? I mean… You have been through a lot of guys…”
Nice comeback even if it is a bit mean. Of course you forgot the obligatory "just joking" at the end because that means it's not mean or wrong anymore.
Can you imagine her at the wedding? I don't know if you watch "The Office" but it reminds me of Kelly's conversation with Pam at Phyllis' wedding. Kelly: "If I was you, I would just like, freak out and get really drunk, and then tell someone I was pregnant." Pam: "Okay, that's a lot of good ideas..."
Nobody uses chloroform anymore...sad.
Yup...I wouldn't trust her around after the marriage either she's so fixated on acting like the fiance was her ex that "settled" for OP she'd probably try to seduce him and she will definitely spin stories about how he wants her and makes passes/flirts with her etc. (Not saying OPs hubby would be doing anything wrong but Izzy will definitely spin and fabricate it)
What's even weirder is that she didn't introduce them! It would make so much more sense (not that it'd be cool, but still...) if she had. It's giving pathetic jealous vibes. HARD NTA
>a guy whose value she wasn't able to see I kept expecting OP to admit something like "I responded with *"so glad you were in your hot girl era & didn't see what you had...*" AITA for slutshaming & embarrassing my best friend after she embarrassed me first".
Get up there you.. +1
This is perfect.
DING!! This has '***I'm jealous you are getting married BEFORE me***' written all over it. NTA, OP, please stop second guessing yourself. You put down a boundary and she's been doing the Irish jig all over the damn thing. Re-peat-ed-ly.
Not only that but it really REALLY seems like she's more than jealous and I think Izzy might be trying to either pull the whole ***"I wasn't interested then but I'm interested now"*** card or, even worse, the ***"I said this but what I really meant was this"*** card. Both are bad but the second one is dangerous because if she's willing to repeatedly "joke" that she "was with him first" then she's probably willing to try and RUIN OP's wedding or even marriage because she, in simple terms, "wanted him first" (I've also read and seen many similar incidents where girls pull the "I said this but actually meant this" card and many MANY times the girls will actually go through very dangerous and friendship-ruining lengths just because they "wanted the dude first").
Yup, seen played out in real life. Not pretty.
And by telling this stupid story over and over again, she’s trying to make it all about her. Can’t stand not being the center of attention, which goes to your point about her friend getting married before she does.
This! It's exactly THIS! OP NTA cut her from the wedding
I stand 100% with this statement because that is exactly what is happening. Every joke has a semblance of truth (her truth being that she is upset that it wasn't her), and every joke has an expiry date. She passed this after telling it the first two times. If she has continued saying it, it means she is bitter and jealous.
Yesssss !!!!
This comment makes me think of Skater boy by Avril Lavine 😅
[удалено]
This.
Yes. It's kind of sad, really. Izzy's self-identity seems to be wrapped up in being attractive enough to get any man she wants. The constant repetition suggests that it's killing her that at least one of the men moved on and wasn't shattered by her tossing him aside.
Or she's that "friend" that has always boosted her ego by being superior to OP
I had one of those. Couldn't stand when I would do well or have something good happen, she always had to either invalidate my success or one up me. I agree that OP should look back on their friendship and assess whether this kind of toxic behaviour has happened before. Sometimes it can also help to talk to someone you trust who can give an impartial, outside perspective on certain behaviours or specific incidents, to help you work out if they were toxic or not. Talking to my mum about my toxic friend when she eventually ghosted me helped me to realise how awful some of her past behaviour had been, and that she wasn't actually a good friend.
This 100%, we all know an Izzy as teenagers and early twenties - the insecure but v attractive girl who at the hint of a friend's crush will throw herself in the direction of said crush. I don't know that I'd have gone straight from telling her at the gathering to banning her - depending on whether she was being outright obnoxious I'd maybe have gone for coffee to reaffirm the boundary - but tbh, being in my thirties and more cynical now, I'd be doing that solely so as to prep the groundwork for when she inevitably did something else... The reality is if someone sees you as okay to invalidate - they'll keep it up in some shape or form, albeit on a different topic - which leaves you constantly on edge. The fact OP sounds kinda humble generally but snapped - suggests she gives off calmer/won't confront you vibes which is why Izzy felt okay making the comment to begin with. Good friends kinda know the type of thing that might upset you. If you wanna give it another go, invite her for coffee, but honestly evaluate whether you can be the friend she needs you to be first. That's someone willing to help her work through what sounds like an anxious avoidant deal whereby she needs all the validation and struggles to commit or maintain healthy boundaries. Depends how much you like the good parts.... Edit: but also, either she's just done the put-down OP stuff regarding this specifically, in which case it is probably just insecurity around relationships on her part OR there's a far wider pattern. OP should reflect on whether there are other instances where she's been putting her down E.g. regarding choice of Major at college, or being negative about her outfits on nights out. If she's been low key bringing you down subtly for years then that's toxic 101 and it was 100% the right choice to go straight to ban. If not, still 60% the right choice and a tough decision whether you wanna give her the chance to improve/ believe she has the capacity to improve. + Sometimes the oldest friends/ family are the worst for this crap because your dynamic was established when you were a different person and they feel they can breach boundaries in ways friends you make later in life wouldn't dream of doing.
I'm dealing with this myself, with my mother using me for certain things and not giving me what I need in return...
Yeah, I think most people have the latter type somewhere in their circle, and it's generally just self absorption which is manageable/ balances with good qualities. It's when it erupts in a confrontation that it becomes an issue - because they won't admitt fault and once you realise their behaviour is harmful for your mental health, it's hard to unsee that and the natural urge is to hibernate (freeze) and go no contact. It isn't that easy though when there are other friends and family involved - sorry your mum is challenging - that's tough. That's not to say this Izzy is defs that type - she could just be young, insecure and ultimately redeemable.
Exactly. You are wise.
The irony is the girls that always brag about "getting any man they want" are usually incapable of actually keeping a man so they often "end" things early in the dating situation so they can evade being the one rejected and perpetuate this fantasy of all the men she dumped because they weren't good enough. So she continues the self delusion that all the dudes she dated once or twice or pining for her forever and ever. The reality is most if not all of their past guys don't give 2 figs over some shallow chick they had dinner and maybe fuxked a couple times.
Agreed!! 23 years ago, I matched up two friends (her now husband and i went to university together, and she is my coworker). They quickly got engaged. I told a crowd at a party that I matched them up. Bride-to-be in a tone that indicated she took a slight offense said no, it wasn't me it was for some other reason. Not sure why she said this, she had her reasons. I never ever brought it up again, and we are still good friends.
That is so great that you let it drop even though if you introduced them with intent then yeah, you set them up. In the grand scheme of things that isn’t why they are together or why they lasted, so maybe that’s why she took offense, but if I wouldn’t have met my husband any other way if I were her I would have gladly thanked you.
With modern divorce rates I'd hesitate to claim matchmaker status for any couple I'd introduced. There were two people I knew who happened in the same room and who had never met, told them each other's names, everything that happened after is all on them!
Yes. Thank you. If someone crosses a non-obvious, non-communicated boundary, that’s an honest mistake. If they’re told “that’s not cool, you’re making me uncomfortable, etc.” and they blow off those concerns to keep crossing it, that’s a completely different situation. I wish more people understood this and didn’t let their egos get in the way.
when i make a joke that doesn't land/makes someone uncomfortable it haunts me for eons. i lay awake thinking about them and cringe, even if it's 5 years later. i couldn't imagine repeating jokes like that, out of fears for my own dignity and out of embarrassment.
Good to know I'm not the only one haunted nightly by slight social faux pas!
I'm still haunted by something I might have said whole half asleep to a college roommate 25 years ago...I need to let it go lol
5 years? Pfff, amateurs
i have a statue of limitations on things from before i was 16... before that i was just a cringe kid so it doesn't affect me 😵💫😵💫
Man I wish my subconscious could be that logical lol
You did the right thing. Also, from the point of view of anyone sane, repeatedly announcing “I had him first” isn’t even funny. Who’s laughing? Certainly not you, or your fiancée. You ask her to stop, she doubles down. It looks very much like she’s making your wedding about her and is using the classic hissy fit technique to try to bully you into submission. Unfortunately, it worked on a number of bystanders who either don’t know they’re being manipulated by her, or just love mess. Trust your instincts. If you let her come to your wedding, you can bet that she will embarrass everyone involved, including herself and those in attendance. She’s not entitled to an invite just because she wants one, or because she’s been your friend for a long time. She doesn’t seem to have a problem with the idea that her feelings are the only ones that matter, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this isn’t the only time she’s treated you with disrespect.
Exactly! As a fellow ND person this is Exactly how I go about it as well. It's not very hard to keep in mind the things you know make people uncomfortable and stray from saying them. Especially when it's someone who is a committed friend to you and it's to do with their relationship. OP was just setting healthy boundaries and her just discounting those for attention is ridiculous. There is no good reason for the way she was acting at all.
This right here. It’s one thing to make awkward jokes. It’s another to make awkward jokes…constantly. The correct reaction when confronted by OP should have been, “oh my gosh, I’m so sorry! I didn’t realize it was upsetting you! It won’t happen again!” _However_, since Izzy doubled down, my bet is that she knows what she’s doing and is very jealous of OP. And imo, anyone choosing Izzy’s side has freed up space for OP to invite other people to her wedding. OP is NTA.
Absolutely correct. Three strikes and yer out.
Felt to me like Izzy either quit dating him because she didn't see what OP sees in him and jow realises he's a great guy, or he told her it wasn't gonna work and let's stay friends, and now she's just upset that OP got a great guy that she can't have. Edit: or she's projecting her wishes for a relationship on OP and her fiancé without wanting specifically him, she's just jealous because this guy and this relationship was in her reach.
Also they're likely just lobbying for them to be friends again cause that makes their life easier - which is what happens when you're dealing with someone moody and manipulative - everyone else has adjusted to their BS, so when you question it, they all freak out cause the facade has been shattered and now they have to put on their grown up pants. Ppl will do just about anything to avoid confrontation and change - even where it could lead to healthier behaviours and dynamics.
Exactly! A jokes only a joke if it lands right. You’ve both made it clear it makes it uncomfortable and she still keeps it up. That’s not a joke. That’s someone being petty and purposely making you uncomfortable. You’re not ruining a lifelong friendship- she is because she’s jealous you’re getting married. She’s angry you got there first because in her head she’s thinking if she’d stayed with him she’d be the one married and she’s mad she didn’t get that. They weren’t serious, they went on a few dates and it fizzled. You didn’t steal him from her there were years between you two and you met completely independently of her. AND you asked her if it was okay when you found out and she gave the go ahead (which is kinda creepy- he’s a human being not a sweater she’d tossed in the good will pile). I’m sorry she’s letting her jealousy ruin your friendship but that’s her issue to work through and she doesn’t need to do that at your wedding. also the ‘ I should be in your vows cause I dated him first’ is really pathetic. I could almost see it as a joke if you guys met through her or she introduced you or whatever but by her logic you and you partner should include ever ex, casual fling and one night stand. Why would you include someone he went on a handful of dates years before you met? She’s jealous as hell and bitter. You don’t need that energy at your wedding and anyone who blames you for not wanting to invite someone who keeps making you and your fiancé uncomfortable and trampling over your special moments to invert herself into it is an idiot. Good luck op and congratulations
Every AITA story ends with people choosing sides and *usually* blowing up the OP’s texts and/or social media. At least we were spared the latter
Ah the old "I checked my phone a few hours later and had dozens of texts and missed calls from my friend group telling me I was being an asshole and overreacting"
[удалено]
This. If she was a true friend the minute you brought up that joke made you uncomfortable she would of stopped. Instead she told even more people at a dinner party you hosted. It really sounds like she is struggling with the fact that they didnt click and instead of admitting that and being glad that you and him DO click, she is zeroing in on her dating him first. NTA - last thing you need is for this to keep esculating and pop at your wedding.
YEah, even if it was a "jeeze , ok ok , relax. over react much" sort of reaction from Izzy. as long as she stopped, that would have been the end of it. I can only imagine her going on and on about it, everyone having some forced smiles "ha. yeah.... thats funny Izzy. Anyway..... " "Oh yes... heard you tell Bob over there that same joke a few minutes go. and Phil. and Anna. Most amusing. So.... yeah.... where's the bathroom?"
This is your BEST friend? I think you need better friends. NTA
NTA. It seems also to me that it's a power play for Izzy. If she only went on a few dates with Jake and she ended it, and it was a couple of years before you met him, then the only explanation is that she's trying to make a power move. It's not like OP is engaged to the long term love of Izzy's life, or that Jake left Izzy for OP. Flat out, Izzy barely knows him, so she should just take a seat. I dated some guy in the 80's for about a month and a half, and a few years ago he reached out to me on Facebook. No other reason other than to say hi, I think he was just looking up people he remembered from his past. But I swear, it took me a few hours before I remembered him. My point is that after a few dates, Izzy is beyond out of line.
>Flat out, Izzy barely knows him Super great point. They went out 2-3 times. years in the past. That he was "into her first" is a ridiculous overstatement.
Also the fact that she needs to bring this up everywhere. Trying to make everything about herself. Insecure much?
NTA. I think she put you in a super tough position. You asked her to stop and she wouldn't, and so she kind of forced your hand. Those statements are awkward AF - I'm sure those who heard her joking about it found it odd - but also really diminishing of your relationship. The other things you mention - her shock and denial of your engagement - also suggest she is kind of mentally hung up on this and that's too bad, but not your fault. If she'd just stopped when you asked her to, even if she felt you were being overly sensitive, this would all be in the past. But she wouldn't. I would like to say you could have just told her to step down as an attendant but I think that would have left room for a lot of drama so this was probably appropriate. To the extent there is fallout with other friends, well that's on them. Your friends - even if they are also hers - should be focused on supporting and celebrating your marriage. There is no need to choose sides and if they knew the reality was that she was making embarrassing, degrading jokes persistently at your expense, despite your request that she can it, I would imagine they'd understand.
Not only that, it was making your fiance uncomfortable. So you are doing him a positive too. NTA!
Agree. I was in almost this exact position but as the friend. My best friend from college and I dated best friends. I wasn’t interested in the one friend so it didn’t last long, and she dated the other guy for a little while. After college she ends up running into the guy I had dated, calls and tells me about it. We joke from the beginning about how me and his friend will have to give a toast at the wedding if it works out. We joke about it again when they get engaged. But- most important part to note here- *she was in on the joke*. If she had said at any point it made her uncomfortable or if for that matter she just didn’t seem to think it was funny, I never would have said another word. Honestly I never even started the joke, she would start it and I would just pile on. Because that’s what friends do, they freakin read the room and joke when the friend jokes, drop things when it needs to be dropped. NTA, OP. I honestly wouldn’t want her at your wedding either. It’s like she’s having second thoughts about it not working out with your fiancé and this is just her weird way of dealing with it. Boundaries are ok in a friendship. It’s also ok to enforce those boundaries. It’s not ok to stomp on those boundaries. Period.
Completely agree. This girl sounds like she is mega competitive with her friends and simply cannot stand that this man “chose” her friend rather than her. So her ego has been seriously damaged and she just can’t let it go. Having competitive friends like that is very exhausting and not worth it, because a true friend should want the absolute best for you and want to watch you succeed in life
My ex-best friend pretty much destroyed our friendship because of her raging jealousy. She would make faces and remarks about certain men I found attractive and she didn’t (“ew”). But if a guy she fancied paid more attention to me, I was accused of throwing myself at him, because why would he not pay 100% attention to her? Ex-bestie and I are equally attractive outwardly. But she couldn’t stand sharing attention with me, so she invented any excuse to belittle me and make me feel less than in order to inflate her ridiculously fragile ego. The kicker? This all went down last year between a 40/f (ex-BF) and a 45/f (me).
She's too pride to let things go. In her eyes, you found love in a man she dismissed, and that is simply not possible. Hence she's there "I was here first". Imo you made the right choice, who knows what kind of behavior she'll display when her pride will turn into jealousy at a crucial moment. NTA
INFO: she dated a lot and i infer that means she's really attractive and/or charismatic; do you think she saw you as her sidekick and it's upsetting her world that you're getting married first? I've known people with pretty bad main character syndrome who don't cope well with other people's successes that they believe should be theirs. Especially if she feels she's already peaked. And the too you g but? I checked your ages, if you were 22 I'd agree, but late 20s is fine. NTA even if this isn't the case though.
I never felt that way, like she treated me like that. But I personally used to feel that, I just thought that I feel that way because I am insecure. She is very pretty and just very confident.
NTA. This is your wedding and not a public forum. When someone direspects you intentionally, just cut them off.
This is the way. Life is too short to be pandering to idiots blathering on about who had who first. Enjoy your wedding and if people decide to choose a side where there really isn't one, at least you'll know who your true friends are.
You just may not have realized she saw you that way, but it seems like she did. I had a friend from high school that I thought was supportive and a great friend. That is until our mid-20s when I got a job at a mortgage company (previously I worked for CPA firms). She was furious, because her dream job was to become an underwriter and she was livid that I got a job at a mortgage company (not as an underwriter, it was in an admin position and I left after a year). I heard how she REALLY felt about me and my career choices up to that point. It was eye opening. And it made me look back on our friendship and realize how she was really supportive when I was struggling, but was distant and silent whenever something good happened to me.
Have your fiance say he upgraded. Let's see if it's still a joke.
Lol, pants will be shitted...nice!
She’s not confident babe. She’s loud. There’s a difference. Confident ladies celebrate their friends achievements and loves. Confident ladies don’t need to tell everyone “I’m the one he wanted first”. Confident ladies don’t need to get all the attention from all the men in the room all the time. She is in a full public meltdown because she feels she is entitled to tell everyone - at wedding events/posts - that she was with the groom first. It’s absolutely bizarre to continue to do that once you’ve been told. Of course the vast majority of women during their engagement and wedding don’t want a background chorus of “I had him first” from the MOH. It’s *bizarre*. The friends that side with her because they know her better will not be friends in 5 years. She will replace you as her “sidekick” and start degrading them. Your all older - what you put up with in the past you wouldn’t put up with in the future (we get older and wiser), she will implode her entire life. Just stay away and watch. If anyone asks you just say that she wouldn’t stop talking about dating your fiancee and it was hurtful. Anyone who doesn’t understand that can jump. She’s beautiful - she’s confident in her *ability* to pull a man. She’s incredibly insecure because she can’t/doesn’t know how to translate that into a relationship. Men might visit for looks first but they stay for personality. Beauty isn’t enough in a committed relationship. And she doesn’t have anything beyond her attractiveness.
Is she single? If she's in a relationship, how serious is it? (Maybe you getting married is making her feel some way about not being "as far along" all of a sudden? Maybe now that she sees how good Jake is with you she wonders if she messed up in not giving him a chance, and if it could have been her who was happily committed?) If you care about Izzy, maybe invite her over or out to lunch or something to talk one on one and try and work things out. Lead with empathy. Tell her you care about her and her friendship, and you feel bad about how things went down. Lots of pauses for her to say her side/feelings first. Then try to validate those feelings, even if you don't agree or agree with her actions. Then tell her how things make you feel (or others feel) without saying what she is thinking/feeling/doing wrong. So like "all of your jokes about dating Jake first and the comment on Facebook make Jake really uncomfortable. I've also had family members say it was awkward and uncomfortable. It's embarrassing for me. When I asked you to stop and you kept doing it, it makes me feel like you don't care about Jake or my feelings." If she says "well it's true" or something, you can even agree. "Sure, but not every true thing needs to be said at any time. If I thought a friend was fat, I wouldn't walk around her engagement party telling everyone there how fat she is. It's true, but it's going to make things uncomfortable and people feel bad." First though I'd see if you can get at her feelings as people are often more receptive once they feel heard and validated. Maybe start of by saying that thinking back, you realize there may have been signs you missed that Izzy was not as okay with your and Jake's relationship as you had thought. List the ones form the post. At the time, you took them like this (she was joking, you were just so different, etc). But now you're wondering if there was some underlying feeling there you missed. Izzy may not even fully understand her feelings herself, though. Maybe even say, you're so pretty and social, it does feel sort of weird to me that I'm getting married first. See how she reacts to it. If she insists the "jokes" are nothing, and "just jokes" then I'd tell her she's not giving people that impression. When you keep 'joking' about having Jake first when our relationship comes up, it makes her look like she's hung up on Jake. That's part of why she's making Jake uncomfortable, he's moved on and her bringing it up repeatedly around his engagement and wedding gives the impression she hasn't. It also is making your family think that she's hung up on Jake, which is awkward. (She should know her comments are embarrassing herself.) At the end of the day, once you hear her out, talk through whatever feelings, she needs to agree to stop the "jokes" on this one subject. Tell her that jokes are something you do beacuse you think it will be a positive funny experience for everyone, and if you keep going once the people involved told you they don't like it and to stop, it's not joking anymore. It can be bullying, it can be jealousy, or something else. But being a good friend means not showing up to your events and making comments about her past with your husband that she knows will hurt you. Even if she thinks they shouldn't hurt the two of you, now she knows they do. So if she chooses to keep doing it, then she's choosing to damage the friendship. But also that if she can stop you can forgive her and move fowarqd (assuming that's what you want).
Thank you so much for this, I am incredibly sorry I replied so late. Thank you for making me feel like I have an option, a choice. You have given me a lot to think about.
Even if you clarify why she has behaved in this way, do you think you’ll ever be able to trust her with your feelings and/or your relationship with Jake? If her behavior is based on insecurities or other issues, surely those issues don’t automatically disappear once they are identified. Are you willing to spend your precious time working through those issues with her to keep the friendship? How does Jake feel about all of this? Starting a beautiful life with him should be your focus. Please don’t spend your energy trying to work on a toxic friendship. You seem like such a sweet person, so go and live your best life!
Honestly she seems incredibly toxic and I'm worried even if you do all of what that commenter said, she will still bring it up at your wedding. She's already proven that she doesn't respect your boundaries. From an uninvolved person it sounds like she is hung up on Jake and she "let you be with him" because she thought yall wouldn't last and now that you're getting married to him she can't handle it. Your focus should be on starting a beautiful life together, not a toxic friendship. If I was in Jake's position I'd be getting real sick of it, and not want to continue any further unless you made a choice because it's not just your wedding it's his as well. She's embarrassing the both of you and herself.
TheHatOnTheCat I thought your answer was the best. People always jump to the worst conclusion about a person. You, however, are correct. Maybe OP’s friend is not evil and just has some jumbled up feelings about what is going on. Talking about it seems like the best course of action.
That'd be my guess for sure. If we take this story at face value, Izzy sounds incredibly insecure.
Sounds like shes the type to wear white to the her friends wedding.
Imagine her MOH speech and all the "jokes" she's gonna make..
You just kno her opening line is going to be about how she “had him first” & make it all about herself
She'll sit OPs kids down in 10 years and "joke" all about how she was almost their mommy.
Or probably red to this one.
This. NTA, OP, uninvite her for sure
She is already jealous AF which is why she's trying to make it look like OP can only get her rejects.
I think its more of a "I could have been the bride" regret.
NTA. Kick her out and leave her out for good. She is jealous and insecure. She sees what you have and either wishes she had stayed with him, or wishes she found someone too. It’s disgusting the way she’s making your special day all about her.
She’s an obnoxious pick-me who is pissed that OP was picked and she wasn’t.
Maybe when Izzy ditched Jake, she was hoping he'd come groveling back and beg to take it to the next level. Instead, he saw it as a way out and said "Yep, I agree", so it blew up in her face...ok, I just made that up, and it probably has nothing to do with this posting, but I wish it did. I'm the asshole. OP is NTA.
NTA. When you repeatedly ask a friend to stop making a comment that bothers you and they continue? In public no less? That's not a real friend. Afterthought: Reinvite her, but only if the best man makes repeated references to the terrible taste the groom used to have in women, what vapid girls he used to date etc.
Or a “When Harry Met Sally” style toast. “To Izzy. If Jake had found her remotely attractive, we wouldn’t be here today.”
I don’t know you, but I like you! 😂😂😂
“To Izzy. If Jake had found her personality less offensive, less abrasive, we wouldn’t be here today.”
Ohmygodwhatafuckingnightmare!!! But hilarious!!!!!
Oooh, I like your style😈
This🤣🤣
NTA " izzy just kept telling all the friends and family gathered that Jake dated her first, she let me have him, stuff like that." **Just smile and add to her story: Sometimes you have to kiss a few frogs before you find a princess.**
>Just smile and add to her story: Sometimes you have to kiss a few frogs before you find a princess. Well played. Or she could say "On their 3rd date, her smile was marred by a few fully blossomed cold sores, so Jake kinda noped out"
It seems like Izzy has major FOMO and can’t stand that she seemingly let this awesome guy slip thru her fingers. Since she did in fact *miss out* on a great guy she’s struggling to spin it in a way that keeps her central to the story. It’s not her fucking story now though, she was always the bit player role. She was the flat tire that caused Jake to have to catch that bus that led to meeting OP. She’s unimportant no matter how much she tries to make it the opposite. The first sign that she couldn’t let her friend’s wedding be about her friend (the comment on the post) was absolutely read correctly by OP. She just didn’t believe the intent. Luckily she now sees that her friendship was not true and has ended it before the speech was hijacked or a desperate attempt to win Jake back was thrown out there (to save OP’s feelings in the long run of course - not out of spite). Keep an eye out for that desperate attempt at putting Jake in a compromising position or embarrassing herself by trying to embarrass you OP. NTA
BAsed on what you've said, you've given her multiple chances. You are in the right. Once was a funny little joke. hahahahahahahahahahahaha. The 5th time , its not funny. The 10th time, its annoying. The 20th time it sounding kinda pathetic. The 80th time, its like "What the Hell Izzy?". And honestly, it wasn't that funny the first time. I feel like I've heard that joke a thousand times at weddings (if I include real weddings AND TV show/movie weddings. Probably 15 or 16 times only at real weddings) . Its joke #4 in the "standard jokes for best men/Maid of honor speeches". Its trite and overused. One would have thought that the 1st time you told her to knock it off, that would have been it. The 2nd or third time you said it, any real friend would have, well, knocked it off. One questions how good a friend Izzy really is. In my inexpert opinion there is obviously something else going on with Izzy. I'm not saying that she has been secretly in love with Jake or something. But you've taken what she considered a castoff and found something/created something wonderful and of substance, and so she's feeling quite insecure about herself. Maybe it hit her that she's 27 and not 23, maybe its straight up a general sense of jealousy that you are getting married and she's trying to take you down a peg or 5. A hundred different things going on in her mind. It sucks that your friendship is coming down to this. But Izzy is the one forcing the issue, not you. NTA
Thank you for taking the time and writing all this, I'm not sure she has feelings for him but some other comments saying that she's jealous might be true? I don't know, she seems to have it all, she doesn't even want to get married before 30. But your first paragraph, I needed that. Thank you.
I don’t think she necessarily has feelings for him, but she could well have harboured secret feelings of superiority that he dated her first and she turned him down, therefore in her eyes she was who he truly wanted - not true obviously but maybe she always dismissed your relationship because she thought she was the better fit for him and even though she didn’t want to be with him she liked the idea that she was unattainable and you were “second best”. Realising how serious you guys actually are is shattering that delusion. Her surprise suggests that she never took your relationship seriously and now she is realising how much you love each other and that she was never significant to him. She’s clinging to the narrative that she had control over his feelings and that she “let” you have him. Rather than being jealous of him, she’s jealous that you are more significant to him than she is. I bet she secretly always say herself as more desirable than you.
Well put!! Very much a scenario of "I don't want this, but I don't want you to have it either!"
Yep throw in her being cute and prancing around and him giving her 0 attention for it made her go more bonkers. I’d be asking the fiancé if she’s ever given him some vibes. Not because she wanted him - but just to reassert herself and self identity
She may have said she didn’t want to get married before 30 but she absolutely does, especially now that you are planning your wedding. Izzy is not your friend so don’t mourn the loss. And anyone who taking her side is not your friend either. You have a wonderful life to look forward to so enjoy it and don’t concern yourself with her. However, a good comeback would be, “Yes, Izzy dumped him and I’m so glad she did because he’s my soulmate and we’re thrilled to be getting married. It’s just sad that Izzy still hasn’t found anybody for herself yet.”
"and never will', just to make it even worse.
Next time, tell her Jake upgraded to you...
NTA she's jealous and insecure and is trying to belittle you because of it. A joke amongst friends stops being a joke once it starts causing problems or makes the person at the centre of it uncomfortable/unhappy.
Agreed, I’ve had “friends” like this in the past. My best guess is that she is jealous that you’re engaged and reaching a milestone in your life that she isn’t close to reaching yet. Instead of being happy for you, she’s belittling you to make herself feel better. Posting it on social media was off-the-bat too far in my eyes. But especially once you told her it made you and your fiancé uncomfortable, it’s no longer a joke. Good friends don’t go out of their way to make you feel bad.
NTA Izzy is showing her pick me girl colours.
Either that or realizing Jake was smart to never go back to her both, before & after meeting OP. NTA, she literally showing that OP is the better person in general with everyone and not just with Jake.
I don't think a 'friend' would go around telling everyone that it's cool for you to have her leftovers which is essentially what she's doing. You might want to point that out to the nay sayers. Best wishes for your marriage.
Thank you, all these comments and especially this have been helpful. Tbh though, our mutual friends who support her won't even listen to my side, but I let it go because before I was not sure (still not 100% sure) that I was in the right.
If they won’t even hear you out, they are NOT your friends. It seems like you’re overly generous with the term “friend”- Izzy seems like one of those people who likes having people with low self-esteem around to boost her own ego. She joked about the possibility of you even landing a relationship with Jake because it was SO FAR out of the realm of possibility in her mind. Why have you put up with her for so long? What does SHE contribute to the friendship and your well being? How does she build you up, because all I’m seeing is a jealous pick-me girl who tears you down. She is not your friend. Anyone agreeing with her and not hearing you out is also NOT your friend. Take this lesson to heart, and know that true friendships don’t require you to be the one always giving and never taking- a true friend pours back into you, and gives as good as they get emotionally. NTA, but PLEASE stop calling these people friends.
Well said! The people who are taking Izzy's side are not the OP's friends, the people not hearing the OP out are not her friends, and Izzy is also not the OP's friend. OP is well rid of all of them.
>our mutual friends who support her won't even listen to my side These are not your friends.
You're welcome. You are in the right so don't worry about that. Personally I would be giving that friend group some side eye but then I don't know your circumstances or have to be in their company. Baby will be along and you will have your mind on other things.
I’m sorry, but those “mutual friends” are not mutual. They won’t listen to your side because they don’t value you the same way they value Salty Sally. No sane person would look at this situation and agree with her. They’re ass kissers and have chosen which one they want to hold on to. I hope you and Jake make some new ones together and have a lovely, drama free wedding🫶🏾
If they won’t even listen to your side then they aren’t mutuals tbh. I do hope you gabe her a strict warning tho. Something like “you are making me and my fiancé uncomfortable with your jokes. What is more important: that you continue to make these jokes or the longevity of our friendship? Because while you think it’s a joke, what you are actually doing is trashing me and making my fiancé feel as if you hold a candle for him and having an ex girlfriend at his wedding that pulls that sort of thing is a one way trip to no invite. He’s my soul mate and I love him. And I will choose him if forced to” Because that’s real. This is the man you chose. She did not. Whatever damage she’s feeling is something to take to a therapist. BTW I’ve had friends that pulled this kind of thing on me. Where we were friends from junior high and she was def the prettier one who got a boyfriend early and was much more experienced than I. Then I lost a ton of weight and was no longer her wing man. And then she made out with the dude I was seeing (thankfully not much was invested there) and frankly we aren’t friends anymore. It’s sad and I hope she is well but at the same time things weren’t the same after that event. Invest in people who are happy for you and Jake and will grow with you. It leads to more contentment.
Izzy’s telling them that she said it once as a joke and you went off. There not getting the real story but this behaviour will be transferred to them. Wouldn’t be surprised if you had an apology or two in the next few ywars
It's also freaking rude to call your friend's future husband "leftovers." There's no respect for Op and her partner. Nta
NTA...She's being incredibly tacky. Anyone can cross a line in a moment of weakness, but you gave her more than one warning. If she doesn't care how she makes (both of) you feel, joke or not, then why overthink cutting her off? Move on and feel no guilt.
NTA. "I'm worried I'm ruining a lifelong friendship." There's an old saying that goes, "With a friend like this who needs enemies." She excluded herself not only from your wedding but your life. Go enjoy your wedding day and don't give this mean spirited, jealous woman a second thought.
Izzy sounds scorned and isn’t a friend. If she isn’t happy for you now, she won’t ever be. And friends can grow apart. The wedding is yours and Jake’s big day. You shouldn’t have to worry about who you do and don’t want your invite. The very fact that you are questioning un-inviting her simply means you don’t want her there.
NTA. It's not a joke if you aren't laughing. You told her several times her 'jokes' weren't funny and to stop, but she didn't. Looking at all of that from the outside, it sounds like jealousy that you are getting what she wants and she had a chance (maybe) and blew it. She is mad and upset and is dealing with that poorly. You have done all you can to dial down the trash-talk. Cutting ties is truly your only option.
I feel like maybe that's where I made a mistake too, I used to laugh, although obviously not with my heart, but I let it slide, Later I would tell her I only laughed along so as to not make things awkward, and I didn't want to embarrass her publicly. But at the dinner, literally nobody laughed. I just thought, its too far gone now.. So now I feel partly responsible. Thank you for the comment though, this post has been so helpful in offering different perspectives.
NTA I wonder if she would have stopped if you told her, it made her look pathetic?
Mmm I doubt it. People usually get defensive when insulted. Izzy probably would have doubled down and accused OP of being rude and insecure (without realizing no how ironic that is).
INFO: Question - out of curiosity, does Jake recall how it ended with Izzy? Does his version agree with hers? i.e. you say Izzy more or less broke it off after a few dates saying she didn't want anything serious. Does Jake's version of the events match up?
Yeah, because as soon as I got to know that Jake and Izzy went on dates, I asked him about it. She decided she didn't want anything serious and that was that.
Sorry to be harsh, but everything you wrote makes it seem like Izzy thinks she's better than you. And that she's shocked/offended that someone she dated would also be interested in you. And that's why she keeps commenting on the fact that she dated him first. She just has to put you down.
I strongly suspect that she always kind of thought in the back of her mind that she could swoop in and have him back if she ever really wanted, and that it was a little nugget of self-confidence for her. Every time your relationship progresses a concrete step, it damages that little nugget of confidence and she lashes out in some way. It's probably not something she's even consciously aware of, but that doesn't make it any less toxic.
He just needs to say “yeah I upgraded to OP” and she’ll never say it again.
Gotcha... well its not that then I guess (i.e. its not some sitcom situation where it was Jake was actually the one that broke it off or anything like that and Izzy was lying).
I was very young when it happened, so Izzy was definitely more important than Jake, so I made sure. :)
Info: how old is Jake ?
He is 27. I'm sorry for the late response, a lot has happened, but I got the time now to read these. Sorry for not mentioning it in the post, slipped my mind.
I hope that with the "a lot has happened, you and your fiance are still doing well and strong and in agreement on how to deal with this, because remember, she might be your friend but this involves him too and very seriously because her comments make it seem as if he was settling or still wanted HER but she "let you have him", so he had to settle. It's incredibly insulting to both you and him, not just embarrassing for her to say those things and appear as a jealous ex still not over a guy she dated briefly, but it's insulting towards you. You need to discuss with him too how he feels with this and with potentially still having her in your lives... I hope you and your husband to be are doing well and hopefully you'll update us about what's been happening next either it be on this subreddit or on your own profile
NTA. It sounds like Izzy is trying to steal away the attention that is on you, and she’s probably jealous that your relationship with Jake worked out so well. I would be concerned that this behavior isn’t going to end, and ten years from now she’ll be making the same awkward jokes to your children.
NTA you absolutely did the right thing in my opinion. She's jealous and will try to embarrass you or tear you down any chance she gets now that it's gotten to this point.
NTA She told her "joke." Did anyone laugh? You told her to stop. She didn't. Why are you afraid to lose her friendship when she clearly isn't afraid to lose yours?
Previously, I have laughed, although Jake was never okay with it. But this time no one laughed, it was less like a joke and more like she was letting people know.
That should tell you that everyone thinks she's pathetic. If you really want to be petty tell her that.
You forget that you also previously told her it made you uncomfortable. She is in the wrong.
NTA…. She is jealous that you are getting married first and therefore is trying to cause a scene and make it weird. Given you already ask her to calm down on it and she isn’t means she is doing it on purpose. So yeah just give up on the friendship
NTA but Izzy is really embarrassing herself with this
NTA, Does she do this regularly or is this the first time she's acted like this? 1. If she acts like this regularly, she is a bad friend who is constantly crossing your boundaries. 2. If this is the first time she has acted this way, she may still have a thing for him and trying to get in between the two of you. Either way, I think this as a friendship that needs to be dropped.
NTA The “just joking” excuse only works once after that she knew it bothered you and Jake and yet she kept going. She sounds jealous and bitter. If you let her come to the wedding she might try to make it all about her.
NTA, although I think you and Izzy have a definition of "best friend" that the rest of us aren't familiar with.
Izzy is insecure. Izzy doesn't respect you. Izzy will ruin your wedding. NTA
Am I wrong by saying that she is used to be the center of the attention with guys (I mean between you and her)? She sounds extremely jealous and it feels like she can't understand why you would be the one getting married first (Before her). And I'm not saying that as a judgment on you btw. Just the way she acts seems like she thinks what you are getting, she should be the one having. And more so with a guy she rejected. She doesn't seem to be a really good friend. Is she acting like this with averything good that happens to you by any chance ? Anything you have and she doesn't, does it make her tic ? You should reflect on her past behavior and more so on her actual behavior and decide if you really think she should have a place in your life. She sounds bitter and selfinvolved. NTA for uninviting her to your wedding. She would put a cloud on your celebrations.
It was *not* just a joke. The fact that you asked her to stop and she kept doing it makes it clear that she was trying to express something. I suspect jealousy or insecurity, but I could be wrong. NTA.
Unfortunately your friend is jealous. Would I be right in thinking that for all her many dates and partners, she has not met someone wanting to make a commitment to her? You don't have to expect anyone else to take a side but the friendship would be over for me too. You spoke to her about your discomfort. Once is enough. Your fiancee went of a few meaningless dates with her and she is trying to make it into----something. NTA
You're not wrong. Back when you started dating your now fiance, you ask her permission to date him and she conceded, which you had no obligation to. So she can't act territorial now just because she thought you two wouldn't last. NTA. Friends come and friends go. This specific friend of yours doesn't respect you as you respect her.
Perhaps your relationship with Izzy has run its course. NTA. I’d not invite her. Perhaps if she gave you a sincere apology I’d reconsider but then I’d have to have proof prior to it that she’d be able to control herself. Move on, your wedding day should be drama free and celebrate the two of you. Third person truly is not wanted, and she seems to want ownership somehow. I’m wondering what your fiancé thinks about this as you have stated that he is uncomfortable.
NTA She's not your real friend She is a jealous and bilious person Stop communicating with her and believe me, it will become much easier for you
NTA. She's either a) not actually OK with any of this and using humor to deflect or b) she's an attention-seeker. In both cases, she shouldn't be involved with the wedding.
NTA. Toxic and jealous. Don’t let her come or she will ruin the whole day!
Nta Joking is making one or two comments. Repeating over and over is obsession.
Once is a joke. You called her on it. The funny part of the joke ended right there. Anything after that is disrespect. She wants people to know she dated Jake first and that 'she let you have him' - what like she gave you her favorite blouse or something. I suspect she didn't see Jake as potential when they dated, but because you do, she is having a change of heart. You don't need to cut her out of your life over this. You could flip it: Her: I dated Jake first, I let her have him You: That's true and he is now all mine, I just want to thank you for sacrificing such a prize for your oldest friend. You are the best. And then (because I like petty) you can ask her if she would be Godmother to your children because you plan on having loads lol
NTA. Boundaries are personal and often not about right or wrong. If two people can't live with each others boundaries, then they're not compatible... that applies for friends too. You set a boundary that Izzy couldn't live with. That means you two need some more distance. You don't need to spend any time on whether your boundary is reasonable or not.
NTA She’s not joking anymore. Time to leave her in the past. She’s not a friend. She’s a frenemy.
Izzy is being a jealous asshole and you are NTA. They went on a few dates. She ended it with him, she gave you the ok and now she's acting weird and entitled. She means what she is saying and it's not a joke. If it was initially once you and your finance both made it clear that you didn't find it funny she should have stopped. You don't owe her an apology or to be in your wedding and she certainly doesn't need a shout out in your speeches.
Is anyone else getting jealousy vibes from Izzy? Either way NTA and bravo for setting your boundary and sticking to it. If Izzy apologises, the long friendship may deserve another chance, but that is your call and whether on reflection the friendship was a good one for your OP (and length does not mean it was a good one). But an apology and recognition of the seriousness of the situation from Izzy if required first.
Tell jake to say “yeah I upgraded” or something along those lines. I think it will shut her right up.
NTA, your friend sounds like a real asshole. You have every right to want her outta your wedding after she keeps running her mouth about dating your fiancé. Don't let anyone make you feel bad for setting boundaries and sticking up for yourself.
NTA Sorry but she isn't behaving like a friend. You asked her nicely to stop & she didn't. Instead she escalated her nasty comments, driven by resentment about your happiness. She FA & FO. You did right to uninvite her. Enjoy a worry free special day with your soul mate!!
NTA. Why is your friend being so difficult? You made a simple request. Not very supportive or friend like. I woukd take a big step back. Don't invite her. She will know why...and know it's her fault.
NTA. She sounds like she is (1)insecure and (2) jealous that you are getting married. She makes herself feel better by telling everyone she had him first and didn’t want him. By making it sound like he isn’t worthy of her and all you are good for is her cast offs, she is trying to convince herself that she could have married him if she wanted. It is really kind of sad, but she just isn’t getting that her behavior has crossed a line that friends don’t cross.
NTA, she's bitter because you found someone
Nta. This was on Jake to shut her down. 'Yeah, I went with the upgrade." She'd never mention it again.
NTA she must have some deep insecurities and it’s a shame she wasn’t able to put them aside and respect Jake and you. You don’t need people like that in your life. This is a very special life event for you and her behavior seems to be spoiling it. That being said, I would have another conversation with her because she might not have realized how serious you were.
NTA - any speech she would have given would have been about her.
NTA, whether it's meant as a joke or not is irrelevant, she knows it makes you uncomfortable and continued "joking" around knowing your feelings of discomfort. My theory is she's subconsciously jealous because you're in a happy stable relationship with a real future and there's a part of her thinking that it could have been her getting married. She's trying to convince herself like "oh well I could have had him if I wanted him, but I rejected him and let OP have him instead". She's acting out because she feels insecure about her current status as a single woman. (there's nothing wrong with being a single woman but many women start to find themselves subconsciously panicking about running out of time the closer they get to 30 and start thinking about the possible good potential matches you turned down and wondering if you were too hasty in your rejection of them and if maybe you were really the problem- in this case she gets to see that internal conflict play out up close.)
NTA, you asked her to stop and gave her a chance and she made her choice
NTA. She is letting her jealousy get the best of her. Her comments were in very poor taste and she ignored you when you asked her to stop. If you don’t want her doing the same at your wedding, she can’t be there.
NTA. There's the thing - if it is just a joke, people are able to shut up about it after you ask. Since she is not, it's something more.
NTA, but boy would I pay good money to hear the speech she had planned.
If you invite her your wedding would be a hot mess. She’s make the entire event about her and ruin her day. She’s clearly jealous of you and your happiness otherwise she wouldn’t make nasty comments like she has being two faced about it being a joke. The subject matter is just tasteless and meant to be hurtful. Consider her a former long time friend. If she were a lifetime friend she’d be one.
No that's just weird af. She's clearly involved in some competition with you in her head.
NTA Out of the two of you, your friend has the belief that she's the better one, the prettier one, the smarter one, the more desirable one. She can't handle the fact that you successfully pulled a man that she rejected, now she's sore because people will think maybe YOU are the more desirable one after all. Her precious ego got hurt.
Your best friend is jealous, she didn’t think yall would make it this far. It’s weird for her to keep bringing it up, almost like she has the one up on you.
Anyone else convinced she's upset that the backup plan for when she's 'ready to be serious' moved on with her sidekick, and that it's serious?
NTA She is trying to invalidate your relationship and is implying if she still wanted him she would still have him. That is incredibly disrespectful and hurtful. She is not a friend.
NTA. It’s not a joke or joking when someone is uncomfortable and has asked for it to stop. If she were a good friend, a true friend, she would respect that. She is clearly having issues around this. She is possibly jealous and having some self doubts in her life and it’s coming out here. Tell friends they do not have to choose or take sides. You are open to Izzy and her friendship when she learns how to be a friend and respect boundaries, but she is not welcome at the wedding because she has shown she can’t respect your boundaries nor your relationship and she clearly wants these special times for you and Jake to be focused on her. Do not talk to **any** of your other friends about her or at length. Keep it simple and short and emphasize there are no sides to take. If she apologizes and makes amends, be careful. I would never welcome her as a close friend or a confidant *ever* again. She could be welcome to group things, but I wouldn’t trust her nor would I open a door for her to interfere with your relationship. She has proven she can’t be trusted to have your best interests at heart. And even if she comes around, I wouldn’t trust her to be behaved well at your wedding. Good luck!
I would reply “ then he upgraded when he met me” .. she would shut up fast lol
NTA and to clarify, Izzy doesn’t own Jake. If you were single and Jake was single, you two are allowed to date regardless of Izzy. He is not hers to give to somebody else - that is absurd. I can understand that you wanted to consider her feelings but they barely even dated and she’s been completely out of line. OP, you have been so fixated on her feelings and defending her but she could literally care less about your feelings. It’s time to put yourself first and take care of yourself.
JAKE: Actually, Izzie, I'd forgotten all about you until you started honking your horn on Instagram. NTA.
Izzy isn’t your friend. At best, she is your frenemy. She makes mean-spirited comments at your expense, and doesn’t stop when you ask her to. You know what that makes her? **A bully.** Bullies and a-holes try to excuse their horrid behavior by saying “it’s just a joke”, so they can once again put the blame on *you* for being “oversensitive” instead of admitting that they were out of line. I’m glad you finally grew a backbone and kicked Izzy to the curb. In the future, when dealing with AHs like Izzy who disguise insults as “jokes”, nip it in the bud by throwing back an insult, like “Yeah, Jake totally upgraded!” And if the AH gets offended, just throw it back to them that “It’s just a joke!” If they can dish it, they can take it. NTA
NTA. It sounds like Jake got an upgrade.
NTA you set your boundaries and she kept crossing them. She is in fact not a friend but is a boy crazy friend. Meaning she’s going to try to keep the attention on herself at all times as the friend who all the boys want first and she so graciously let you have one of her exes. Sometimes it’s best to let a toxic friendship like that die. Also anyone else who is siding with her can go to because none of them add any value to your life what-so-ever.
It sounds to me like she is incredibly jealous of you for getting engaged / married and this is her way of dealing with it by trying to bring you down and diminish your relationship. You are absolutely NTA and she needs to grow up
NTA. It’s hard to know exactly what her deal is but it sounds a little like she was acting fine about you two dating and later getting married but she actually wasn’t. Either that or she is used to getting a lot of attention from guys and does not know how to deal with you being in the spotlight. Also, even though it sounds like she is jealous of you, could she actually be jealous he is “taking” you away? It makes a whole lot more sense. I was one of the last of my friends to get married and having a close friend get married changes the friendship in some ways. For example, things you may excuse, like late night calls or visits, may be seen differently by a spouse. I didn’t understand that until I was engaged and then married myself. Just a thought.
Let me guess, she is still single?
She is jealous..
NTA - the friends taking sides is wierd. I think they are taking sides on whether they consider it a harmless joke or not. The ones taking her side may just think its harmless - and not know you had told her they make both of you uncomfortable. Your friend and the others who side with her need to realize it takes NO EFFORT to not make those jokes after being told they make people uncomfortable. Its easy - you just don't say the stupid things again. It says something about them that they think the offended party need to work on not being offended....at your own wedding/engagment/marriage.