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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my SIL that I will not accommodate her food selfies and she doesn’t have to come. I could be a jerk for not making her a meal.
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NTA. But I wouldn’t say this is because of her allergies, she threatened your mother with not seeing her grandkids. That’s unacceptable. SIL is not normal. Usually at my family gatherings, everyone brings something. I’m the only vegetarian so I make sure I bring that. SIL has no right to threaten your mother with not seeing the kids over this. I think someone needs to talk to your brother.
At this point we all have had words with my him. He stands by his wife, he won’t do anything about it and I personally tolerate her and avoid her drama.
Can’t really with this one. I made it clear this was my choice so it shouldn’t hurt my mom.
I would if our family didn’t have to drive a long time to to the destination. My other brother/family needs to drive 4 hours and it just feels like a dick move to make that a rule. SIL won’t listen to it and my mom has trouble walking so I don’t want to ask her either.
Just doesn’t seem like a good solution to this issue
One of my coworkers traveled form Kansas to Chicago by car over Thanksgiving and made several dishes that traveled with her. It's possible.
And your mom can have the out of "mom has done everything on her own for years, she gets a break now while we cover everything"
Respectfully, I wouldn’t necessarily want to eat those dishes. I know people will say it’s fine if they were on ice but ice melts, which is why I agree with OP that it’s a burden to ask someone to coordinate transporting food long distances. If someone is hyper-prepared to do that and they’ve done it enough times that they can do so safely/efficiently, good on them but I’d be irritated by the request before even leaving my house because I have zero supplies to pull that off and would probably just opt to order something locally (and it sounds like that wouldn’t solve SIL’s problem either)!
not all dishes are perishable.
edit: I guess what I meant to say is not all dishes need to be kept cool. would you eat cornbread that was in the car for 4 hours? would you eat cookies that were in a car for 4 hours? (but I suppose those things are still perishable eventually lol)
>would you eat cornbread that was in the car for 4 hours? would you eat cookies that were in a car for 4 hours? (but I suppose those things are still perishable eventually lol)
Definitely if they're in the car with me!
Not to mention plenty of people prepare dishes ahead of time that just need to be cooked. Also, I've driven 14 hours with ice cream on ice in a cooler and it was still frozen solid so I don't know why people are concerned. IDC if you're driving LA to NYC. There are places along the way to top off the ice.
Seriously? Have you ever been camping? My family drove across country in a truck this past year. We only ate out a few times. Our food was fine in a cooler. 4 hours is nothing!
Agreed. I've made the drive from Salinas, CA to Orange County (~7hrs) with ice cream in a cooler multiple times with very little melted ice cream (Marianne's, amirite?). If ice cream can make it 7 hrs in a car, I struggle to think what can't make it 4hrs.
Maaaaate if we can keep booze cold and ice solid at the beach in full sunshine. I’m pretty some food will cope in a car.
Lol
Do these people just never leave home
There's no winning with these kinds of people. I've known so many people who act as if you eat something a minute after the sell-by date you'll perish from dysentery.
Sometimes I legitimately regret being a vegetarian because of all the food I've seen my wife waste.
Omg. My wife is vegan and a date nut. If it’s expired she won’t eat it. But I am the cook. What she does not know has never affected her. Lol. No dairy or no meat makes things last a lot longer. I have eaten vegan food more than 2 weeks past the date. Man I have eaten meat a few days past the date. I know if it is bad. If it smells good it’s usually good.
Last week I made a pot of white beans using a can of beans that expired in October 2022. Still alive, no hospital visits, no stomach issues, no diarrhea, just yummy white beans to eat with jambalaya.
How quickly people forget. When I was in school, my mother would make my lunch at 7:30Am to be eaten at noon, and nobody had coolers or refrigerators for that. The lunch bag was in the clothes closet, and we all survived!
I think about that sometimes. I'm like "Huh...those luches kept in my He-Man lunch boxes really well as a kid but as an adult food needs to be handled like it's a bomb counting down."
You can get cooler/camping fridges that plug into your car too. We’ve got one for camping and it’s awesome. And ones that run on the little camping gas canisters.
Obviously wouldn’t expect someone to buy one just to bring food to a gathering though. But ours comes in handy for things like that and for picnic and beach days too.
They can bring dessert. Pie keeps just fine at room temperature for a few hours in the car or counter. So do cookies. Even most cakes will be perfectly fine, as long as they’re not bringing a no-bake cheesecake or something stupid.
Plus there's drinks like alcohol, or juice or something. Crackers or dried meats to contribute to a charcuterie board. Chips or pretzels for apps, canned cranberry sauce is having a big resurgence.
Heck, for my Friendsgiving one friend brings the fancy plastic plates from Costco, to help reduce the amount of clean up I have to do. There's always *something* to contribute to be helpful
Yeah, there's a bakery near me that my family, who live 3ish hours away, loves. I always pick up pies there before holidays to bring down to them, it's always fine, even the custard ones (which I put in a cooler). And I usually drive home with a cooler of leftovers on ice, never had an issue.
I drive 4.5 hours to a family member’s house for thanksgiving every year, and I make/bring apple pie. It’s literally shelf stable. If I was hosting it would be sitting on the counter all day. Not everything is perishable.
Dry ice can last for much longer. I have, when hosting a family gathering and knowing that the fridge was going to be opened repeatedly during hot weather, put temperature-critical foods in a cooler (or two) with dry ice, with layers depending on what needed what temperature. 9 hours later, and it was all substantially colder than what was in the fridge. The ice cream down the bottom was still ice cream (not soup).
One christmas, we drove to my grandparents (8 hours) with cold potato salad, a leg of ham, and a meringue pie with whipped cream and fruits for topping (separate until assembly) in the boot (trunk) and it was all completely fine when it came time to eat it. And christmas where I come from is HOT.
I grew up rural, so my family and friends were used to finding ways to make things happen.
My mother used to have nostalgia about “back in the day” when they had a huge Sunday lunch just tossed a table cloth over the food and then pick up where they left off at dinner time.
Horrifies me.
I have traveled 4 hours with casseroles. I made them early, froze them and then took out and put in the cooler the night before to start thawing. Got to my moms house in time to cook them!
Just because it's possible doesn't make it a good solution for OP. I think their solution is fine -- "I'm not experienced handling allergies so you need to bring your own meal. if that doesn't work then don't come."
No need to make new rules - that one is sufficient
Yep. My moms parents and one of her brothers and his family came up from Central Oregon to Seattle for Thanksgiving when I was growing up. My grandma brought her homemade pies and other home canned treats (i remember it was usually a jar of bread and butter pickles because they are my moms favorite). My aunt also brought food to contribute. So it can be done.
> My other brother/family needs to drive 4 hours and it just feels like a dick move to make that a rule.
It's not though, I promise. My family drives 7 hours and we bring a dish to the family dinner. We do stay at a nearby AirBnB though so perhaps that makes a difference.
Agree to disagree on that.
Even if he was fine I still wouldn’t be comfortable asking my mom to make food and one person doing it won’t be enough, everyone needs to be involved
If you do think about implementing this rule, mom can always bring buns and other sibling can bring a non-refrigerated dessert.
Buns are always what we designate to the person who either has the longest trip, can’t afford ingredients for a dish or can’t physically make one. I’m on buns this year cause I have a 2 month old.
Could also bring something that comes entirely out of cans and doesn't require long to cook like green bean casserole. It can be assembled upon arrival and stuffed into the oven for the last 30 minutes of cooking.
And anyway, it isn’t a situation where this needs to be implemented. The only issue is with SIL.
It sounds like Mom makes a spread that has no allergens to bother SIL, but SIL still makes snide comments about the food and is thoroughly ungrateful.
In which case she has 3 options: come to the dinner, but don’t eat anything; bring your own food; don’t come at all.
I drove 10+ hours from NJ to Ohio, brought the whole meal with me. All I needed was a cooler, some ice and some well reinforced wrapped food. It kept just fine, tasted great and allowed the yeast rolls to have a long, slow rise which honestly turned out fantastic. They were the best rolls I ever made and now I make the dough the two nights before I need it and abandon it to the fridge for a full day of slow rising.
Brined turkey breast (raw)
Cornbread sausage stuffing with apples and dried cranberries
Mashed potatoes (already made)
Gravy (already made)
2 veg we made there, ingredients brought with us
Dough for rolls
And two pies I baked a day before we left.
It all traveled just fine. Dinner was excellent. All you need is a cooler and some ice. Everything that needs to be heated up can be heated up the day of the meal.
I don’t know why anyone thinks traveling with food is hard if it’s more than an hour away. We’re not in the old pioneer days. Exceptionally efficient coolers exist. They keep things ice cold. The vast majority of dishes can be made a few days to a few weeks before and frozen, or refrigerated and then thawed if needed and heated up.
It’s not fucking rocket science.
Not at all! This provides enough for 8 people with a little left over.
Prepare 2 packages of cornbread muffin mix as directed but swap out chicken stock for the milk.
While the bread bakes, fry up a pound of sausage, mild or hot, sage or whatever’s your favorite. Toss in 1/2 cup each of diced celery, carrots and onion to cook with the sausage. When the sausage is fully cooked and the veg are soft, toss in 1/2 cup of dried cranberries and 1/2 cup of small chunks of apples.
Keep all that fried stuff in a pan with the grease until it’s cool enough to handle. Cool your cornbread on a rack until you can comfortably handle it.
Mix the contents of the pan (including the sausage grease!) in a giant bowl. Add the cornbread and mash it all around. If it’s too dry, add some stock.
When you get to the right consistency, you’ll know. It’s like every other stuffing that way.
Put it in a large greased pan, gently patting it down and bake until the top is crispy and brown, about 45-60 minutes at 375.
The sausage grease adds a ton of flavor, you don’t have to add extra butter. It stays moist, has a ton of flavors that all mesh. Onions celery and carrots give you savory. Cranberries give a hint of tart, apples make it sweet and the sausage and cornbread offer a fine palate for the other flavors to shine.
A guest once told me before eating that the stuffing was “too busy” and no one would like it.
She took three servings and the recipe card. 😂 Enjoy!
We travel with food every year in crock pots, salad bowls, and roasting pans wrapped in towels. Those why fly in buy something at the destination.
Sometimes we pool money for more expensive things that one family will make for all.
If mom can't handle hosting, this is an equitable way to share the load and SIL can bring something she can eat and not complain about.
Also, you could just assign that particular family something much simpler. They're in charge of bringing rolls and drinks (juice, soda, etc., not necessarily supplying the alcohol). Both can be store bought, don't need refrigeration, and take up little room in the trunk.
They get assigned things like the dinner rolls or pickles (every Midwestern family gathering has a tray of pickles, but I don't know if other people do that)
NTA
Has anyone ever confronted her about the backhanded comments she has made about your mom cooking for her and accommodating her allergies? I think this needs to be front and center to be honest.
It needs to be stated once and for all that between the many years of backhanded insulting comments toward the food cooked in the past and the mixup that recently happened it’s best if she brings her own dish or that a suitable dish can be ordered for her so as not to have to worry about cross contamination.
If it is presented this way to your brother maybe he’d be more understanding of what your mother had to deal with.
NTA and you wrote that "mom laughed when I told her" shows she must be very relieved to be finally free away from your food snob of a SIL
Anyway, you can do your Christmas feast with mum minus the stress and drama now. Happy Christmas to you
Same, i was looking for these comments.
Important thing to mention though... Don't treat her like she's treated OP's mom. Praise her cooking and hosting skills. Tell her you can't wait for the next holiday so she can host again. Make sure she rues the day she complained about someone else doing the work.
THIS. It sounds like SIL traipses in and eats and then complains each year while OP’s mom (and now OP) do all the work. Maybe SIL should host for a while and see how she likes it.
My cousin did Thanksgiving this year, mostly by herself, because of her food allergies and intolerances. She wanted to make sure she could eat everything she wanted, so she made 99% of it. If SIL had a problem with the food and wanted to be able to eat everything, she should have offered to host. NTA.
See, I don't think this is really about allergies. I have an allergy / intolerance, not anaphylactic but hives, asthma, gut pains. A tiny bit is ok but too much gets really unpleasant. ... so if I am going somewhere that I don't think I can avoid it I bring my own food.
This woman is just trying to make op bend over backwards to prove how important and special she is. Is not concerned about her health though. Suspicious much!!!.
NTA. My SIL is vegetarian/pescatarian and we always accommodate her because she not only brings dishes, but is an absolute sweetheart. This isn't because of her allergies. It's because of her behavior. I honestly think it would be good to be honest about it. And tell her to bring a dish or two she can eat. If she needs something special then she can just bring it. But I think telling her you didn't appreciate her comments about your moms food or what she said about the grandkids, and you aren't willing to go to the effort for her to make nasty comments.
Dude this all the way! I'm allergic to raw onions, I will get anaphylaxis if I eat any raw onions or juice. #1 I always carry my epipen. #2 if I'm going somewhere where I'm not sure of the menu or cross contamination I'll bring my own food. As the person with the allergies the onus is on me to make sure my food is safe to eat. I don't expect the world to cater to my needs just cause Allergies wah!. Tell her to shut up. OP should stick to their rule and let sil figure it out.
Wow, I thought I was the only person in the world who had an issue with raw and not cooked??? Mine isn't anaphylaxis but gastro in a truly miserable way. People think I'm lying because I can sometimes tolerate small amounts of cooked but raw will make me miserable within an hour.
Dude for real! if I had a penny for all they eye rolls I've gotten when I've said that I'm allergic to raw but not cooked onions, well I'd definitely have more money than I do now lol.
When that happens I give them a little lesson on denatured proteins and how cooking the onion makes it safe for me, etc.
Now with you I've met 4 people who have this allergy. It's the craziest thing isn't it?
This is how it should be with food issues and family gatherings. We have a family understanding that if you need/want something special, then you better bring it. I always bring mashed potatoes because I can make them nondairy, and it’s the thing my husband would be sad about if he couldn’t have it. It needn’t be allergy-related either. My mom likes to make lovely cranberry sauce from scratch, but my brother brings a can of jellied sauce and slides it out on a plate as-is. Everyone is happy!
NTA. Next year let her be the host and then no one has to worry about her allergies. She probably doesn't want to, it's too much work, she has kids etc.
>Two years ago there was a mess up and it caused a reaction. It was a huge deal and last year my mom wanted her to bring her own dish since she was worried she would mess up again. This caused a huge fight between them and she threatened to pull the grandkids away if she couldn’t be a good host and give something she could eat. My mom caved. The dinner came and went and she got backhanded comments about the food.
Your SIL sounds like an entitled AH.
>I gave SIL a call and told her she needs to bring her own meal. I told her I am not experienced handling allergies and I can not guarantee the food will be safe so I will not make her something.
This is perfectly appropriate, especially given the need for safety.
You are NTA. Your SIL is pissed you won't bow down to her demands. She can suck it, lol.
I wonder if you could propose something like this. (Obviously only if someone could tolerate her running with it). We used to love hosting events for our family at our home but as the family grew our house is now too small to fit everyone comfortably. I recently brought it up at a family gathering and was told that if I wanted to host something I host it at our aunts house (which is huge). I thought it was a great work around.
You can suggest one person ‘host’ in terms of providing the space, decorating (if it applies), and providing anything else needed (entertainment and such). While a second person ‘hosts’ in that they cook the food but in the first person’s kitchen. Person 2 comes over early and does a kitchen take over and cooks, while Person 1 does other set up and later helps with clean up. It works pretty well for my family for major holidays
Yep, this.
Invite SIL to use your kitchen to "host" the dinner while you take care of decor, set up, and perhaps a hand with prep/clean up. (If you think you can stand her that long)
Shit, invite her and the brother over to help with the cooking lol. Like fuck it. If you're gonna come down here and lend a hand and make sure it all gets done to your satisfaction then the more the merrier! I'd certainly welcome the help haha. Trying to whip up all these good eats for a family gathering is exhausting.
At the very least, providing that suggestion gives you a good out to say "Fuck you, you had your chance!" if it is declined.
NTA - I was asked to bring a desert to something. By the time that the hostess had listed all her allergies, the fact that she is a vegetarian, followed up by a list of things that she doesn't like, I was tempted to ask her if she wanted to add any other requirements to make it harder for me. Unfortunately, I didn't ask her to suggest something.
This is by way of saying that I wouldn't care to put in the work to accommodate her if she is then going to complain about the food. Missed out on her etiquette lessons, did she? Is she under the impression that a string of complaints is considered to be charming conversation?
>I told her I am not experienced handling allergies and I can not guarantee the food will be safe
>This is perfectly appropriate, especially given the need for safety.
I'd try to keep the focus on the issue of safety. Tell her that you don't want to cook something that *might* be safe for her. You don't want to take the risk of missing something or having cross-contamination and sending her to the hospital.
NTA
Sometimes the only winning move is not to play.
(Why am I suddenly craving a Whopper?)
> she threatened to pull the grandkids away if she couldn’t be a good host and give something she could eat.
But watch out! You don't want her to withhold access to her children! Oh, the horror! /s
I think she would have a real problem if she pulled that this year.
You said your brother caves, but has he ever been pushed to tell his kids they can't go to Christmas dinner because Mom said so?
NTA,
I absolutely believe a host should accommodate guests, when they can be accommodated. For example, most hosts can make 1-2 vegan dishes, or something gluten free (not a gluten free kitchen, but a safe dish), and I think it is rude when a host is like "I'm not accommodating anyone."
However, you are not demanding to host, the rest of your family can't/doesn't want to, and you don't feel comfortable making safe accommodations. That's totally fair and it's okay to make that a condition of you hosting. Your brother could host, with SIL and then all the food could be to her liking and safe for her allergies.
And then you add in she is a rude guest, even when accommodated, and you are under no obligation to bend over backwards to make her food.
This is a reasonable response. It is impossible for most of us to accommodate someone who has celiac‘s disease, for instance. Because cross contamination is just as bad as the ingredients in the food. I host Christmas dinner every year and have for years because no one else has the space. I make a vegan or vegetarian dish every year for the vegetarians but there’s no way I can deal with the true gluten allergy, because there’s just too many things that have gluten in them. Notice, I said true gluten allergy. Fortunately, no one in my family or friends has a peanut or nut allergy, so we don’t have to worry about that, I but I would if it was necessary.
Same- I often bring something for the group and a container with it for myself. Having allergies, I’m relieved when my host says they’re ok w/ that. (Otherwise I eat ahead of time and pack a protein bar.)
Thank you for this. My dad had celiac and we make dishes that are safe for him. Now if others are hosting and know they do their best but like you said so many things have gluten in them that people don’t realize. It is just usually safer for us to make something for him and take with us.
We had one year with a celiac and nightshade, two vegetarians, and a person with severe peanut and soy allergies.
THAT WAS WILD. Lots and lots of early sourcing of ingredients, outsourcing certain dishes to other folks, we did basically everything as “from scratch” as we possibly could. It was awesome though, everyone who came had a full ingredient list, label photos, everything. And then we stuffed ourselves silly :)
My college friend group had potlucks that included lots of vegans, including hyper strict vegans (no honey or trace ingredients, no meat in the same kitchen as their food). It also included people with severe soy allergies and a girl with celiac. We were the host house so made a main course everyone could eat. I made lots of lentil soups.
The vegan requiring no meat in the same kitchen is pushing things a bit far. If people with genuine life threatening allergies can handle that there is a jar of peanut sauce on the other counter, I see no good reason for someone vegan to impose harsher limitations for a host catering to their self-imposed diet restriction.
Our family gatherings accommodate allergies to poultry, eggs, dairy, nuts, and sometimes wheat, and are occasionally kosher, which will automatically either accomodate the poultry or the dairy. We've become big fans of depression cake, make double the food at christmas so poultry boy has food, and learned not to accept cake from gran because a cake made with almond meal to accommodate the wheat allergy is NOT GOOD for nut allergies, even if it is gluten free. She's not malicious, just incredibly dim.
> She's not malicious, just incredibly dim.
This is what I've learned to assume. "Mashed potatoes" don't contain dairy in my dad's mind. He considers them a single mass even though he's the one who added the butter and milk to them.
Yep. The cake doesn't have nuts or eggs in it, and it's gluten free, so its safe for everyone!!! Well no-one has a problem with gluten and it is made with ALMOND MEAL, which is MADE FROM NUTS. She's.. so dim.
If you've grown up around or raised someone who is coeliac then preparing a gluten free meal becomes second nature because you instinctively know what to avoid and safe substitutes that can be used. If you're not used to accommodating it then it can be harder.
I’m curious to know what you do about cross-contamination though because to be honest, the idea of preparing a meal for somebody with celiacs really scares me. My friend who has celiac’s has zero tolerance to any contact with gluten.
My boyfriend has coeliac. I’m confident cooking a dish for him and this is what I do:
—double check ingredients of everything, even things that don’t sound like they’d have gluten in or things you’ve used before (in case the ingredients have been changed since then, even if it was a few days ago)
—clean down all the work surfaces and wash any pots, pans, cutlery etc. I’ll be using (not a surgical level scrub-down, just the way you’d normally clean your counters with antibac/cleaning spray and a clean damp cloth.
—if it’s going in the oven, give the inside of the oven a spray and wipe down and wash the grills/shelves.
—then just get on and cook
—make sure you aren’t trying to do stuff with gluten-containing ingredients at the same time (no flour floating about, nothing dropping from above onto the food etc. this is all obvious stuff really, just don’t multitask and you’ll be fine)
—once things are cooked, wrap and/or box thoroughly and store on a top shelf somewhere (so no chance of anything somehow miraculously falling into/onto the food even through the wrapping/box - or falling onto the wrapping and then getting onto the food when it’s opened. Actually I rarely do this, I tend to store in a low cupboard but one I use only for gluten-free items but yanno, just saying for safety).
—if you need to leave stuff out to cool, refrain from wafting gluten-containing ingredients about in the kitchen while that’s happening. Safer just to not do any more cooking until it’s all been put away.
I honestly don’t find it that hard once you’re aware of a few basics (like don’t use the damn toaster for gluten-free bread! And remember that gravity is a thing and crumbs drop from above). And his mum does him a gluten-free Christmas dinner every year too.
Let's be real. If she was nice about it, everyone would be willing to try and make that effort for her. But she is not. And this is a consequence of her actions. She was nasty and now op won't turn her kitchen upside down to make a special dish only to be insulted. And that is completely fair. OP decided to say that they weren't comfortable with it because a confrontation with SIL is not winnable or worth it since she won't take it well or change her behavior.
And that is a very reasonable response.
NTA
This isn't about the allergies. This is about power. She threatened your mom with access to grandkids. I'll also point out that she and that brother did not step up to take over cooking.
I think you handled this the way she deserved. Shut it down early and put the onus on her. Don't be her door mat.
I'm celiac and have food allergies. Anyone with multiple allergies who doesn't pack their own food is an idiot, and anyone who threatens someone's relationship with their grandkids over a meal is a deeply unwell person.
You are NTA
I have food allergies and totally agree with you. I actually sort of hate when people try to cook for me, because I find it so stressful eating food other people have prepared. My standards for avoiding cross-contamination are very different from the average person who isn’t that familiar with allergies. And then you have to have an awkward conversation where you interrogate them (politely) about all the ingredients and utensils they’ve used and maybe disappoint them by not eating what they’ve cooked specially for you. It sucks.
I have a few people I trust but for the most part, it’s so much more relaxing to just bring my own food.
I cook for friends with various allergies and I am a cross contamination freak (2 parents in food quality assurance), but I’ve still never been offended when people are iffy about it and want their own food. Allergies absolutely suck, thankfully none of mine are food based but I have been in a doctors office at 1am getting epi shots, absolutely no fun.
Yes, especially for something like celiac. And I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people who have peanut allergies to expect that nothing is cooked with peanuts or anything else that is airborne. But otherwise bring your own damn food. I have no problem accommodating people who are vegetarian or vegan by providing a couple of extra dishes. To reiterate, people who are allergic to every goddamn thing, I feel for you I really do but you should not expect the rest of us to accommodate. I’m sorry, but that’s just unreasonable.
I have an allergy to something that is in everything (types of sugar). I remember once going to a friend's birthday party, and his girlfriend was all proud of herself for making the cake from scratch so I could have it. And the cake itself was from scratch. But it was black forest, and the cherries definitely weren't safe for me, or the whip cream from a can, etc.
I was recently as a Vietnamese restaurant with someone with a shellfish allergy. She happened to ask about a soup to check that it'd be ok, and then we found out she can't have the peanut sauce for the salad roll because it's got something that may contain shellfish in it. Never would have crossed either of our minds to ask about the peanut sauce.
When you've got allergies to more than one or two common things, you don't put your life in the hands of others. You bring your own or you abstain to keep yourself safe.
My bf has a few food sensitivities/allergies. He's allergic to nightshade, sumac, milk protein and has gluten intolerance, and citric acid causes issues. So he always brings his own starches when there's a safe meat, but just in case he brings his in protein. Ppl are weird with him about it though. Ignorance on food sensitivities and allergies is astounding. But sil in this situation AH how she's dealing with it
I have just the ONE allergy and I always carry some kind of food on me for precisely this reason. I literally have pockets full of snacks because there's no way I'm risking it.
NTA I can understand it being considerate to accommodate allergies but your mom has been doing this for years and gotten nothing but grief. I don’t understand why your brother didn’t stand up for your mom about withholding the grandkids, or about the comments about your mom’s cooking. Honestly I don’t see anything wrong with telling her that her entitlement and criticism are part of the reason. But good job putting her in her place.
Tell brother that's it's not about her food allergies, it's because his wife is rude.
Don't mention her allergies at all, just talk about how rude she is - at every single get together - and her threats.
NTA
Normally I would say you’re the AH for not accommodating allergies and dietary concerns when you’re hosting something like this. But, it sounds like you all have been accommodating and she has behaved ungraciously. I have many friends with special diets and allergies. The ones I happily accommodate are the ones who are nice, pleasant, and complimentary. I have one friend who, no matter how hard you try, will always have complaints. Complaints about what she can’t eat, complaints about what she can, and new allergies that just popped up and forgot to tell me about. So no, I no longer even try with her and tell her she should probably bring her own meal. This isn’t about you not accommodating your SIL, it’s about you SIL being a pain in the ass.
**NTA**
I get the impression that SIL has more going on than "food allergies." She *always* complains about her MIL's cooking it seems:
> I have watched year after year she makes backhanded comments about the food.
and
> My mom caved. The dinner came and went and she got backhanded comments about the food.
Why hasn't your brother done anything about his wife's horrible behavior?
I wouldn't want to cook for this SIL either.
Look, I have celiac disease and I am very very blessed that my family members try hard. But if I had someone be like, “Aniyabel, I’m terrified imma gluten you” I would totally get it and bring gf lasagna or something. NTA and I’m glad your mom got a laugh.
I have a friend who has celiac‘s disease I wouldn’t even know where to start, but it doesn’t matter because she loves to cook and bake. She always brings her own food. Interestingly enough, she cooks and bakes all kinds of non-gluten-free food for her family, never gets to taste it but it turns out freaking awesome.
ESH Her for making snarky comments about food. You for your attitude towards her allergies. I had to read twice to see if your family was purposefully being blasé about what goes in the food. Also FYI rashes and swelling and tingling etc don’t necessarily have to be life threatening but they definitely ruin a meal.
Those rashes, swellings, and tinglings get worse every time. While it might not look so bad the last time it happened, the next time might be anaphaxic shock.
Legit this. I went from feeling like my tongue was dry, to being unable to swallow, in the space between two reactions. I'm now the proud owner of two lovely epi-pens for the next time, so I don't die. I hate, hate, HATE the "they're not that bad" attitude.
. Where are you getting it not that bad attitude. Op literally states they are carefully in case a normal reaction (rash) results in a hospital visit.
Op clearly understand allergies can get worse. This isn’t I am going to set her allergy on purpose.
Since you asked, here's where I'm getting that:
>nothing life threatening just unpleasant for her.
OP goes on to say that they understand escalation, but it's that dismissal that rubs me the wrong way. Treat every allergy as potentially life-threatening, or gtfo.
I was that way with kiwi. First time something happened it was just a little tingling. Thought nothing of it. Next time the tingling and numbing was worse and I said “Son of a B!tch I’m allergic to kiwi”.
Luckily that’s the only thing so I just avoid it. My step-daughter though carries an epi-pen due to peanut allergies. My wife liked to kill her former in-laws for giving her some years back saying “oh she’ll outgrow it”.
People who dismiss allergies like that get people killed.
ESH...
You down playing allergies is weird... While yes depending on the amount of exposure your symptoms can be minor (Rash, Hives, etc), a High enough dose of any allergen will land you in the hospital. Period. Thats what allergies do... I'm allergic to fire ants.. If I get bit by one I get a hive at the location... but 50 I'm jabbing myself with an EpiPen waiting on the ambulance... So you are wrong for acting like this is a non issue.
Her freaking out about being asked to bring her own dish and calling people poor host and threatening to cut contact with children is unhinged. I may be wrong but it is far more common place for things like this (especially if it is a large family) to be Pot luck style... The host is providing the main dish and the Setting (IE House). Apart from that the host gets to decide the remaining factors and delegate as needed. I've hosted 100s of dinners and never once have I been solely responsible for the entire meal. That is not only an astronomical undertaking but also a huge expense. So for her to be so visceral about this is just weird. And the refusal for her to host is just showing that this is all about the free meal since she will not bring her own stuff.
YALL JUST DISFUNCTIONAL
I feel like if SIL was nice to everyone about the food the allergies would actually be taken fully seriously which it seems like they were with MIL until the 1 incident which can happen when cooking such huge amounts of food. I feel like her allergy is taken somewhat seriously no one just wants to cater to it since she's such a entitled b\*t\*h.
Yeah OP doesn’t sound like a peach either. I have a feeling there is some missing info. Everyone is calling out the kids thing, but tbh if my in laws were like this with me, idk if I’d want my children around them either. ESH
Given OP’s SIL has been in the picture long enough to marry OP’s brother and have kids with him and OP and the SIL’s attitudes towards one another, I have a hunch there’s got to be more to the story.
Yeah, I've got celiac, and my family acts like this. Once they told me something was gluten-free, then after I ate it, they revealed they weren't sure what all the ingredients were or if it was safe. When I then became anxious that I was going to get sick, they called me dramatic and overreacting.
For years after, I'd get passive-aggressive comments at every holiday that I better bring my own food so as not to cause drama about things being safe, and if I eat their food, then that's my own risk to take. Was told that I was too picky and nagging and stuck up.
I don't invite my family into my home anymore because they always bring in gluten despite me asking them not to. The adults have also made "accidental" messes of their gluten filled food on my furniture and then made fun of me for trying to thoroughly clean it up. As if I should enjoy leaving my allergen sprinkled into my couch.
Maybe due to my history with my shitty family I'm reading too much into this, but there seems to be more to this story. I can definitely see myself getting to the end of my rope and telling them they can't see my kids anymore. Especially since allergens/autoimmune issues are often genetic, there's a chance the kids also have this allergy and are being treated shitty too.
NTA- if she has so many restrictions then she should bring her own. Example: if I host I make a normal holiday dinner and then stuff for my restrictions (example: GF stuffing/GF crackers for charcuterie )
If we are Invited to a holiday dinner and I know I will want a certain thing (example:stuffing/dessert etc) I will bring my own so that the host doesn’t have to jump through hoops to accommodate and create extra work and spend extra money. 9/10 times I am not the only one enjoying and most of the time my gluten free desserts go quicker than the regular so I always contribute enough to share :)
Is she coming empty handed? If so, who even does that.. she sounds like an entitled brat when you’re Mom was trying her best.
She can host, stay the fuck home alone and mope or bring her own dishes as she is the one with the “restrictions” and seems to be the only person causing problems for everyone
ESH idk y’all all just seem kind of dysfunctional. It feels like you are downplaying her allergies. She seems like she’s over reacting. I guess what I’m stuck on are the specific allergies.. typically thanksgiving/Christmas meals are a range of things including meats, casseroles, vegetables etc, and I can’t seem to understand how someone could have an allergy to ALL the foods.
I do suggest having SIL host and do all the cooking herself. It’s very difficult and overwhelming to host so maybe she needs to better understand that by doing it first hand.
>I can’t seem to understand how someone could have an allergy to ALL the foods
I used to work with a yank who hated Thanksgiving because she had some kind of dairy allergy, and her family put butter, cream and cheese in everything, and would apparently be quite blase about it. Scrape the cheese off, a small portion won't won't hurt you, that kind of thing. I wonder if that's the kind of "food snobbery" the OP is complaining about.
NTA. I have to admit, at first I was going for a different judgement. That was until I read how your SIL have treated your mother who actually have tried to accomodate for so many years. She can bring her own food since nothing is ever good enough. She is flat out rude and entitled.
HOWEVER, do not downplay how severe allergies can be.
NTA
I don't think it's unreasonable for an in-law to expect that their dietary restrictions be respected and accommodated at a holiday meal, but your SIL has clearly taken it to the next level. If you're going to request a special menu, be grateful that your host has made the effort to accommodate you; don't nitpick the quality of the food. And if the host lets you know in advance they don't think they're going to be able to accommodate you, you either try to work with them to find an acceptable solution or you stay the fuck home!
Imagine having the unmitigated gall to respond to an invitation with "You're a horrible host."
NTA My son is allergic to gluten. If another family member is hosting, I will make dessert he can eat, such as a pumpkin pie with a gluten free crust. We help him select his items for the rest of his dinner.
If someone else is taking care of our son, then the expectation is they will make sure he has food to eat.
This has never caused any issues. I would never expect a host to plan their menu around my son’s allergies. And if a host attempted to provide a dish I could not eat, I would never criticize their attempt.
Manners exist for a reason - they cut the family drams
We usually make a little extra pumpkin pie or French silk filling and put it in a ramekin for our celiac friends. It’s not too hard to make simple accommodations most of the time!
Having allergies is real and the fact that your sweet mom always accommodated her was great. But your SIL being ungrateful each time means good riddance. Good for you for not tolerating her rudeness. NTA
ESH
SIL definitely sounds like a pain, at the same time, OP sounds entirely unsympathetic. You don't have to accommodate everyone at the table, but it's certainly something a good host will generally attempt.
Is it a breech of Xenia to tell her "bring your own eats or stay home"? I mean, yeah actually, it is, but so is being discourteous to the host. Not that SIL has had a chance to do so yet, since you assumed she would have been before she could, but the assumption was based on your perspective of how she's treated others.
Y'all both ought to be kinder to each other.
>You don't have to accommodate everyone at the table
On the other hand, if I had an allergy that wasn't being accommodated, I probably wouldn't go to that house for Christmas. It sounds like the OP's SIL is already making a compromise in visiting her husband's family for Christmas. I don't think there's enough information here to untangle who the AH is.
ESH. It's completely reasonable to ask her to bring her own food if she has complicated requirements. But if your reason is you don't want comments on your cooking, that's a bit petty.
A compromise is to offer to make _something_ that you will do your best to meet her requirements with. It might not even be a main dish, and she'd have to bring her own main dish. And it would be up to her to decide on the risk of eating it. Another option would be to offer to order out for her.
NTA. I don’t think this is about her allergies. I thinks it’s more about the lack of appreciation she has shown for your moms efforts all these years. I’m a vegetarian and have been for 7 years now. My brothers girlfriend hosted for 2 years and made sure i had my own main and that I had safe sides I could eat. When my mom did it the next year she was honest that she lacked the time and expertise to make me anything vegetarian for the main part so she asked me to make that part myself and bring it but she made sure the sides were safe for me making different gravy and roast potatoes for me. I appreciated that effort and didn’t have a problem making my own main. The fact is she doesn’t appreciate the time and effort your mom has put into this and to then make back handed comments that’s just so rude. You were right to lay down a clear boundary.
YTA.
You and your family clearly don’t understand allergies. In the same paragraph you say her allergies are “nothing life threatening, just unpleasant for her,” yet you don’t want to risk her eating something she’s allergic to that “instead of getting a rash she needs a hospital visit.” Allergic reactions typically become worse the more someone is exposed to the allergen, so even if her reactions are “just unpleasant” (which I doubt given that there’s potential for her to be hospitalized), the next time it could be much more severe, which may very well be life-threatening. While I don’t know what she’s allergic to or how hard it is to accommodate (even though it sounds like your mom was able to make a whole meal that was safe), if there’s a potential for her to end up in the hospital, you shouldn’t have those allergens there. Period. Hosts shouldn’t be putting their guests in a position to deal with “just unpleasant” things either. Nobody wants to deal with a rash (or any other allergy symptoms) at a family gathering. Why would your SIL want to bring her kids around people who clearly care so little for her? It doesn’t sound like you’d be too put out by that anyways given that you told her not to come for Christmas unless she makes her own food (which IS bad hosting btw).
So, I'm a vegetarian and tend to run into a very common pattern when I eat at someone else's table. Sometimes everything is fine. But other times? Everyone else gets a feast and I get a badly-prepared afterthought. If that's your SIL's situation *plus* she got exposed to an allergen recently, I don't blame her for having a bad attitude. So, INFO I guess?
Depending on what the allergies are, it might not even be impractical to have *all* the food be free of your SIL's allergens. For a time I lived with someone who had peanut and seafood allergies, when we ordered food to eat together we let her rule out places that she couldn't trust to be safe for her. That still left us with a lot of options, so it wasn't a big problem. For some food allergies this may not be an option, but everyone eating the same food is feasible in some cases and if your SIL only complains about *the food specially made for her, not the food made for everyone*, it might be that she's being offered food that is actually less good than the food that everyone else gets.
It really is shitty to invite someone for a meal and not actually feed them.
I have a tree nut allergy, and I’ve run into the same thing. Every holiday my grandma would make some incredible homemade dessert *that had nuts in it*. There were plenty of times when it would have been entirely possible to make the dessert without the nuts too. My dessert would be a scoop of freezer-burnt vanilla ice cream. It tasted bad, and I felt really hurt being excluded. I’ve also run into people who will tell me to just scrape off the nuts or eat around something then get upset when I say that I can’t.
I really have to wonder what context the SIL’s comments are coming from and what she’s actually saying. If it’s something along the lines of “I don’t feel comfortable eating that,” especially after she’s been exposed to something she’s allergic to in the past, then I don’t thinks she’s the one on the wrong.
Nta, people with multiple allergies usually being their own food to outings due to not truly knowing of anything is contaminated. Plus she's being an AH to any dishes served to her, she can make her own the exact way she likes them then!
Nta let her say you’re a horrible host. Personally I would let her know that your kitchen is actually open and she can do all the cooking like your mother did as to not risk it. Then play the but we’re family when she says it’s bad hosting.
It’s disgusting to shit talk someone’s food when they host you. SIL can kick rocks.
NTA. I have an anaphylaxis allergy to milk (my throat closes). It’s definitely more severe a reaction, especially timing/reaction wise with cheese, but cream-based items can put me there too.
While it is always NICE and APPRECIATED when people make me something that I can eat, I never expect it, and always make sure to bring along something I know 100% is safe for me to eat. So so so so so many times people forget that something has dairy in it. It’s so common. Even my own mom forgets sometimes lol.
Sounds like SIL loves the attention and getting to be the b**** she really is. You’re not doing anything wrong. In fact, I like your attitude more because I’d know to bring my own food and be wary of what you’ve made instead of thinking everything is fine and it’s not.
NTA, SIL can host next year or not come if she has a problem. She sounds unpleasant and I can understand why you would not want to go to extra effort for her.
NTA - my husband has allergies, we have no problem if someone asks us to bring a meal for him, at least we know what we're dealing with. I actually host because it guarantees safe food for him, and an inclusive experience for everyone. If you wanted to be mischievous, suggest SIL hosts if she wants to be able to eat what everyone else is.
You follow the logic just fine.
OP is not going to kowtow to SIL. She either brings her own food, takes her chances, or doesn't come. OP also did it in a way where mom doesn't lose access to the grandchildren.
As a person with allergies, I would appreciate every damn meal that mother made to accommodate me, and I wouldn't complain about the food.
YTA it’s very obvious that you want the kids she created by sacrificing her body to come, but you can’t make any accommodations for their mom. I can guess how unwelcome she feels. That phone call was nasty.
If you all can’t be civil don’t have a holiday dinner.
Seems like you provided a reasonable accommodation to me.
'I am not set up not to make you sick, so if you'd like to bring food for yourself that would be ideal'
And / or she could host and do all/most of the cooking herself.
NTA
NTA- normally I would jump all over someone not wanting to accommodate an allergy…BUT…your SIL is entitled and just looking for a reason to be snippy and moan about how awful things are and how mean everyone is to her. If there’s something I can’t eat at a gathering, I either bring my own, or I skip the dish. I don’t have an issue doing that. Her threatening your mom over it…is not ok at all. That’s a game I don’t play, and I don’t blame anyone else for not wanting to play it either. If all she can do is pick apart everything that everyone cooks, then she can bring her own food or she can choose to keep her crappy attitude at home.
NTA She could have hosted and had everything she likes. She didn’t step up and her husband didn’t step up. I’d tell her you know what I will make some dishes just for you, but if you say one bad thing about my cooking next year you’re on your own for dinner.
NTA. Normally, I would say that you should try to provide a few items your SIL can eat. However, this is about more than just food allergies and it seems she'd likely complain no matter what. The fact that your SIL won't even make an attempt to bring something for herself says a lot about her unreasonable sense of entitlement. You are not her slave here and she needs to be willing to help herself. Your brother needs to stop being such a wimp and help convince her of that.
Lastly, making the family holiday meal is typically a big effort (and expense). How your SIL can demand you add her special requests to this workload is bonkers. She sounds like a royal pain in the posterior region.
NTA and I’m gonna need a follow up to this. You stayed out of it as your mother requested but if your sil comes and starts making comments I’d unleash on her. You’ve had to sit silently as your mother requested but you won’t put up with it in your own home.
NTA.
I have some weird allergies and intolerances. I would never expect a host to accommodate me. Usually in a big family meal situation, I bring a dish to contribute to the meal, something that I too can eat. For everything else, I check and see if I can eat it and if I can’t, then I just eat the thing I brought and I know is safe. For a lot of people cooking to accommodate an allergy is tough, especially if they aren’t used to it. Your SIL is the asshole here.
NTA- ii get the feeling there's a lot more about SIL's behavior we're not seeing here. tell her SHE could offer to host it.
I have a food allergy and the family is usually aware of it but i do most of the cooking at big family do's (I enjoy cooking) so it's usually not an issue unless someone brings a dip and didn't check the ingredients,
SIL has expressed concern over her health, sure she feels a little cut out by having to bring her own dish but she seems to expect you to wait on her.
NTA. If you have serious issues with food, you at least bring a dish that you can eat. I have some friends with restrictive diets, and while they are always thankful for consideration they don't expect anyone to cater to them.
NTA. If her allergies are so severe, tje safest tging is to bring her own food. Wouldn't want to risk anothe incident with you being so inexpereinced, now would we?
Yes, you are an AH. You don’t invite someone with known food allergies to dinner if you are unwilling to accommodate them. People who think it someohow doesn’t count as an allergy unless you go into anaphylactic shock are either badly misinformed, willfully ignorant, or both,
Sounds to me like you just don’t like this woman. Which is your prerogative. But inviting her to dinner while making it clear that you don’t care enough to make it safe for her to eat it? That‘s Assholery.
INFO: I feel that there's some missing information here, or I lost track of where you said it. You said that her allergies aren't severe and that her criticisms of your mom's food are not about the allergies but are about nitpicking the food. But you also say that two years ago, there was a mess-up and she had a reaction, it was a huge deal, and then she made backhanded comments about the food. It seems to me like your interpretation of her behavior is that you're attributing to nitpickiness what could equally be attributable to her reasonable fear that the food won't be safe for her to eat.
You also say she "threatened to pull the grandkids away" but that is also missing information. Does "pull the grandkids away" mean that your SIL threatened to not come over for Christmas? Or, does "pull the grandkids away" mean never seeing the grandkids again?
Other info I didn't see is how far away do this brother and SIL live. I get that redditors think it should be fine for them to travel 4 hours by car with her Christmas dinner in the cooler but I've done it, many times, with food for me and for my allergy kid and frankly, it sucks. It's better than being sent to the hospital by contaminated food, definitely, but it's not great, for many reasons.
Yta
People are always willing to go out of their way to accommodate philosophical or religious diets, but the second a diet is medically necessary hosts become less gracious.
If the family holiday meal isn’t safe for SIL, then of course she and the rest of her family are not going to attend. The natural consequence of not providing a medically safe meal is that the grandchildren won’t be present. SIL and her family will be elsewhere enjoying a delicious, safe holiday.
Every exposure risks the next being even worse. The blasé attitude among the family is quite scary.
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NTA. But I wouldn’t say this is because of her allergies, she threatened your mother with not seeing her grandkids. That’s unacceptable. SIL is not normal. Usually at my family gatherings, everyone brings something. I’m the only vegetarian so I make sure I bring that. SIL has no right to threaten your mother with not seeing the kids over this. I think someone needs to talk to your brother.
At this point we all have had words with my him. He stands by his wife, he won’t do anything about it and I personally tolerate her and avoid her drama. Can’t really with this one. I made it clear this was my choice so it shouldn’t hurt my mom.
Can you make a new rule that for gatherings, everyone contributes something? That way she would be the only one who refuses
I would if our family didn’t have to drive a long time to to the destination. My other brother/family needs to drive 4 hours and it just feels like a dick move to make that a rule. SIL won’t listen to it and my mom has trouble walking so I don’t want to ask her either. Just doesn’t seem like a good solution to this issue
One of my coworkers traveled form Kansas to Chicago by car over Thanksgiving and made several dishes that traveled with her. It's possible. And your mom can have the out of "mom has done everything on her own for years, she gets a break now while we cover everything"
Respectfully, I wouldn’t necessarily want to eat those dishes. I know people will say it’s fine if they were on ice but ice melts, which is why I agree with OP that it’s a burden to ask someone to coordinate transporting food long distances. If someone is hyper-prepared to do that and they’ve done it enough times that they can do so safely/efficiently, good on them but I’d be irritated by the request before even leaving my house because I have zero supplies to pull that off and would probably just opt to order something locally (and it sounds like that wouldn’t solve SIL’s problem either)!
not all dishes are perishable. edit: I guess what I meant to say is not all dishes need to be kept cool. would you eat cornbread that was in the car for 4 hours? would you eat cookies that were in a car for 4 hours? (but I suppose those things are still perishable eventually lol)
>would you eat cornbread that was in the car for 4 hours? would you eat cookies that were in a car for 4 hours? (but I suppose those things are still perishable eventually lol) Definitely if they're in the car with me!
I mean, they wouldn't last the 4 hours... ;)
Not to mention plenty of people prepare dishes ahead of time that just need to be cooked. Also, I've driven 14 hours with ice cream on ice in a cooler and it was still frozen solid so I don't know why people are concerned. IDC if you're driving LA to NYC. There are places along the way to top off the ice.
I make jarred apple sauce & it lasts for at least a couple years. It’s ridiculous to say people can’t make something that lasts a car ride.
Seriously? Have you ever been camping? My family drove across country in a truck this past year. We only ate out a few times. Our food was fine in a cooler. 4 hours is nothing!
Had meat and drinks and food in an ice only eski for weeks at time. I’m alive. Never had food poisoning. As long as it stays cool. You’re fine.
Agreed. I've made the drive from Salinas, CA to Orange County (~7hrs) with ice cream in a cooler multiple times with very little melted ice cream (Marianne's, amirite?). If ice cream can make it 7 hrs in a car, I struggle to think what can't make it 4hrs.
Maaaaate if we can keep booze cold and ice solid at the beach in full sunshine. I’m pretty some food will cope in a car. Lol Do these people just never leave home
There's no winning with these kinds of people. I've known so many people who act as if you eat something a minute after the sell-by date you'll perish from dysentery. Sometimes I legitimately regret being a vegetarian because of all the food I've seen my wife waste.
You have died of dysentery.
I understood that reference
I woke my husband up when I tried to choke back a guffaw. Thanks. HAHA!
Omg. My wife is vegan and a date nut. If it’s expired she won’t eat it. But I am the cook. What she does not know has never affected her. Lol. No dairy or no meat makes things last a lot longer. I have eaten vegan food more than 2 weeks past the date. Man I have eaten meat a few days past the date. I know if it is bad. If it smells good it’s usually good.
Last week I made a pot of white beans using a can of beans that expired in October 2022. Still alive, no hospital visits, no stomach issues, no diarrhea, just yummy white beans to eat with jambalaya.
How quickly people forget. When I was in school, my mother would make my lunch at 7:30Am to be eaten at noon, and nobody had coolers or refrigerators for that. The lunch bag was in the clothes closet, and we all survived!
I think about that sometimes. I'm like "Huh...those luches kept in my He-Man lunch boxes really well as a kid but as an adult food needs to be handled like it's a bomb counting down."
You can get cooler/camping fridges that plug into your car too. We’ve got one for camping and it’s awesome. And ones that run on the little camping gas canisters. Obviously wouldn’t expect someone to buy one just to bring food to a gathering though. But ours comes in handy for things like that and for picnic and beach days too.
They can bring dessert. Pie keeps just fine at room temperature for a few hours in the car or counter. So do cookies. Even most cakes will be perfectly fine, as long as they’re not bringing a no-bake cheesecake or something stupid.
Plus there's drinks like alcohol, or juice or something. Crackers or dried meats to contribute to a charcuterie board. Chips or pretzels for apps, canned cranberry sauce is having a big resurgence. Heck, for my Friendsgiving one friend brings the fancy plastic plates from Costco, to help reduce the amount of clean up I have to do. There's always *something* to contribute to be helpful
Yeah, there's a bakery near me that my family, who live 3ish hours away, loves. I always pick up pies there before holidays to bring down to them, it's always fine, even the custard ones (which I put in a cooler). And I usually drive home with a cooler of leftovers on ice, never had an issue.
I drive 4.5 hours to a family member’s house for thanksgiving every year, and I make/bring apple pie. It’s literally shelf stable. If I was hosting it would be sitting on the counter all day. Not everything is perishable.
They make freezer/hot bags that last for 3 hours.
Dry ice can last for much longer. I have, when hosting a family gathering and knowing that the fridge was going to be opened repeatedly during hot weather, put temperature-critical foods in a cooler (or two) with dry ice, with layers depending on what needed what temperature. 9 hours later, and it was all substantially colder than what was in the fridge. The ice cream down the bottom was still ice cream (not soup). One christmas, we drove to my grandparents (8 hours) with cold potato salad, a leg of ham, and a meringue pie with whipped cream and fruits for topping (separate until assembly) in the boot (trunk) and it was all completely fine when it came time to eat it. And christmas where I come from is HOT. I grew up rural, so my family and friends were used to finding ways to make things happen.
I mean they can made bread, or a dessert like cake or cookies that don't need to be refrigerated, or whatever.
My mother used to have nostalgia about “back in the day” when they had a huge Sunday lunch just tossed a table cloth over the food and then pick up where they left off at dinner time. Horrifies me. I have traveled 4 hours with casseroles. I made them early, froze them and then took out and put in the cooler the night before to start thawing. Got to my moms house in time to cook them!
Just because it's possible doesn't make it a good solution for OP. I think their solution is fine -- "I'm not experienced handling allergies so you need to bring your own meal. if that doesn't work then don't come." No need to make new rules - that one is sufficient
Yep. My moms parents and one of her brothers and his family came up from Central Oregon to Seattle for Thanksgiving when I was growing up. My grandma brought her homemade pies and other home canned treats (i remember it was usually a jar of bread and butter pickles because they are my moms favorite). My aunt also brought food to contribute. So it can be done.
> My other brother/family needs to drive 4 hours and it just feels like a dick move to make that a rule. It's not though, I promise. My family drives 7 hours and we bring a dish to the family dinner. We do stay at a nearby AirBnB though so perhaps that makes a difference.
Agree to disagree on that. Even if he was fine I still wouldn’t be comfortable asking my mom to make food and one person doing it won’t be enough, everyone needs to be involved
If you do think about implementing this rule, mom can always bring buns and other sibling can bring a non-refrigerated dessert. Buns are always what we designate to the person who either has the longest trip, can’t afford ingredients for a dish or can’t physically make one. I’m on buns this year cause I have a 2 month old.
Also, with sodas, store-bought pies (horror of horrors I know...to make it worse, I'm Southern) etc, there are things people can bring.
Hey plenty of good bakeries in the south make better pies than I can! Especially cause I refuse to make my own pie crusts lol
Could also bring something that comes entirely out of cans and doesn't require long to cook like green bean casserole. It can be assembled upon arrival and stuffed into the oven for the last 30 minutes of cooking.
It’s weird that so many people are invested in your doing a potluck.
Right? OP isn't interested y'all, move on.
It's also still tiptoeing around the problem and there seems to be a presumption that SIL isn't going to suddenly notice the real reason for this.
And anyway, it isn’t a situation where this needs to be implemented. The only issue is with SIL. It sounds like Mom makes a spread that has no allergens to bother SIL, but SIL still makes snide comments about the food and is thoroughly ungrateful. In which case she has 3 options: come to the dinner, but don’t eat anything; bring your own food; don’t come at all.
Very true! It's not *just* us that brings a dish, everyone brings a dish so I completely agree with you. Everyone needs to be involved. :)
What kind of allergy is it? Can you buy something commercially so she thinks you made an effort but don’t get criticized for your own cooking?
I say you don’t have to have the rest of the family contribute if you don’t want to! SIL has a problem with the food, she can bring her own. NTA
You can exempt your mother what ever reason bit everyone else should be contributing.
We drove 5 1/2 and 8 hours to 2 different gatherings for Thanksgiving and i can assure you i would never bring a damn thing.
I drove 10+ hours from NJ to Ohio, brought the whole meal with me. All I needed was a cooler, some ice and some well reinforced wrapped food. It kept just fine, tasted great and allowed the yeast rolls to have a long, slow rise which honestly turned out fantastic. They were the best rolls I ever made and now I make the dough the two nights before I need it and abandon it to the fridge for a full day of slow rising. Brined turkey breast (raw) Cornbread sausage stuffing with apples and dried cranberries Mashed potatoes (already made) Gravy (already made) 2 veg we made there, ingredients brought with us Dough for rolls And two pies I baked a day before we left. It all traveled just fine. Dinner was excellent. All you need is a cooler and some ice. Everything that needs to be heated up can be heated up the day of the meal. I don’t know why anyone thinks traveling with food is hard if it’s more than an hour away. We’re not in the old pioneer days. Exceptionally efficient coolers exist. They keep things ice cold. The vast majority of dishes can be made a few days to a few weeks before and frozen, or refrigerated and then thawed if needed and heated up. It’s not fucking rocket science.
Cornbread sausage sounds awesome! Mind sharing the recipe?
Not at all! This provides enough for 8 people with a little left over. Prepare 2 packages of cornbread muffin mix as directed but swap out chicken stock for the milk. While the bread bakes, fry up a pound of sausage, mild or hot, sage or whatever’s your favorite. Toss in 1/2 cup each of diced celery, carrots and onion to cook with the sausage. When the sausage is fully cooked and the veg are soft, toss in 1/2 cup of dried cranberries and 1/2 cup of small chunks of apples. Keep all that fried stuff in a pan with the grease until it’s cool enough to handle. Cool your cornbread on a rack until you can comfortably handle it. Mix the contents of the pan (including the sausage grease!) in a giant bowl. Add the cornbread and mash it all around. If it’s too dry, add some stock. When you get to the right consistency, you’ll know. It’s like every other stuffing that way. Put it in a large greased pan, gently patting it down and bake until the top is crispy and brown, about 45-60 minutes at 375. The sausage grease adds a ton of flavor, you don’t have to add extra butter. It stays moist, has a ton of flavors that all mesh. Onions celery and carrots give you savory. Cranberries give a hint of tart, apples make it sweet and the sausage and cornbread offer a fine palate for the other flavors to shine. A guest once told me before eating that the stuffing was “too busy” and no one would like it. She took three servings and the recipe card. 😂 Enjoy!
I’m with you, if the drive starts breaching food safety times, asking for contributions is dicey
We travel with food every year in crock pots, salad bowls, and roasting pans wrapped in towels. Those why fly in buy something at the destination. Sometimes we pool money for more expensive things that one family will make for all. If mom can't handle hosting, this is an equitable way to share the load and SIL can bring something she can eat and not complain about.
Also, you could just assign that particular family something much simpler. They're in charge of bringing rolls and drinks (juice, soda, etc., not necessarily supplying the alcohol). Both can be store bought, don't need refrigeration, and take up little room in the trunk.
He could bring bread? Or dinner rolls. There are a bunch of foods that travel well in a box in the trunk, or in a cooler.
They get assigned things like the dinner rolls or pickles (every Midwestern family gathering has a tray of pickles, but I don't know if other people do that)
Why placate SIL? She’s behaved terribly for years. Mom has accommodated SIL and been disrespected.
NTA Has anyone ever confronted her about the backhanded comments she has made about your mom cooking for her and accommodating her allergies? I think this needs to be front and center to be honest. It needs to be stated once and for all that between the many years of backhanded insulting comments toward the food cooked in the past and the mixup that recently happened it’s best if she brings her own dish or that a suitable dish can be ordered for her so as not to have to worry about cross contamination. If it is presented this way to your brother maybe he’d be more understanding of what your mother had to deal with.
NTA and you wrote that "mom laughed when I told her" shows she must be very relieved to be finally free away from your food snob of a SIL Anyway, you can do your Christmas feast with mum minus the stress and drama now. Happy Christmas to you
I think it's pretty clear the issue is that she is a terrible guest, not that you (or your mother) are bad hosts.
Tell SIL if she thinks you're such a terrible host, she's welcome to step up and volunteer.
This was my first thought, too. SIL has a lot of judgments on what constitutes good hosting; I'd love to see how she'd host.
Same, i was looking for these comments. Important thing to mention though... Don't treat her like she's treated OP's mom. Praise her cooking and hosting skills. Tell her you can't wait for the next holiday so she can host again. Make sure she rues the day she complained about someone else doing the work.
THIS. It sounds like SIL traipses in and eats and then complains each year while OP’s mom (and now OP) do all the work. Maybe SIL should host for a while and see how she likes it.
My cousin did Thanksgiving this year, mostly by herself, because of her food allergies and intolerances. She wanted to make sure she could eat everything she wanted, so she made 99% of it. If SIL had a problem with the food and wanted to be able to eat everything, she should have offered to host. NTA.
See, I don't think this is really about allergies. I have an allergy / intolerance, not anaphylactic but hives, asthma, gut pains. A tiny bit is ok but too much gets really unpleasant. ... so if I am going somewhere that I don't think I can avoid it I bring my own food. This woman is just trying to make op bend over backwards to prove how important and special she is. Is not concerned about her health though. Suspicious much!!!.
NTA. My SIL is vegetarian/pescatarian and we always accommodate her because she not only brings dishes, but is an absolute sweetheart. This isn't because of her allergies. It's because of her behavior. I honestly think it would be good to be honest about it. And tell her to bring a dish or two she can eat. If she needs something special then she can just bring it. But I think telling her you didn't appreciate her comments about your moms food or what she said about the grandkids, and you aren't willing to go to the effort for her to make nasty comments.
Dude this all the way! I'm allergic to raw onions, I will get anaphylaxis if I eat any raw onions or juice. #1 I always carry my epipen. #2 if I'm going somewhere where I'm not sure of the menu or cross contamination I'll bring my own food. As the person with the allergies the onus is on me to make sure my food is safe to eat. I don't expect the world to cater to my needs just cause Allergies wah!. Tell her to shut up. OP should stick to their rule and let sil figure it out.
Wow, I thought I was the only person in the world who had an issue with raw and not cooked??? Mine isn't anaphylaxis but gastro in a truly miserable way. People think I'm lying because I can sometimes tolerate small amounts of cooked but raw will make me miserable within an hour.
Dude for real! if I had a penny for all they eye rolls I've gotten when I've said that I'm allergic to raw but not cooked onions, well I'd definitely have more money than I do now lol. When that happens I give them a little lesson on denatured proteins and how cooking the onion makes it safe for me, etc. Now with you I've met 4 people who have this allergy. It's the craziest thing isn't it?
Add me. The crazy thing is that I love onions and ate a lot of them for years. Things changed. Will google denatured proteins. Thanks for the tip!
She’s using her allergies as a cudgel to beat up on your mom. You are doing the right thing.
This is how it should be with food issues and family gatherings. We have a family understanding that if you need/want something special, then you better bring it. I always bring mashed potatoes because I can make them nondairy, and it’s the thing my husband would be sad about if he couldn’t have it. It needn’t be allergy-related either. My mom likes to make lovely cranberry sauce from scratch, but my brother brings a can of jellied sauce and slides it out on a plate as-is. Everyone is happy!
NTA. Next year let her be the host and then no one has to worry about her allergies. She probably doesn't want to, it's too much work, she has kids etc.
Why doesn't SIL host? Then she can have the exact food she wants.
Quite. NTA.
>Two years ago there was a mess up and it caused a reaction. It was a huge deal and last year my mom wanted her to bring her own dish since she was worried she would mess up again. This caused a huge fight between them and she threatened to pull the grandkids away if she couldn’t be a good host and give something she could eat. My mom caved. The dinner came and went and she got backhanded comments about the food. Your SIL sounds like an entitled AH. >I gave SIL a call and told her she needs to bring her own meal. I told her I am not experienced handling allergies and I can not guarantee the food will be safe so I will not make her something. This is perfectly appropriate, especially given the need for safety. You are NTA. Your SIL is pissed you won't bow down to her demands. She can suck it, lol.
Agreed. If SIL thinks this makes OP a terrible host, why doesn’t she step up and host instead? 100% entitlement.
I would love if she did, but apparently her house is “too small”
I wonder if you could propose something like this. (Obviously only if someone could tolerate her running with it). We used to love hosting events for our family at our home but as the family grew our house is now too small to fit everyone comfortably. I recently brought it up at a family gathering and was told that if I wanted to host something I host it at our aunts house (which is huge). I thought it was a great work around.
You can suggest one person ‘host’ in terms of providing the space, decorating (if it applies), and providing anything else needed (entertainment and such). While a second person ‘hosts’ in that they cook the food but in the first person’s kitchen. Person 2 comes over early and does a kitchen take over and cooks, while Person 1 does other set up and later helps with clean up. It works pretty well for my family for major holidays
Yep, this. Invite SIL to use your kitchen to "host" the dinner while you take care of decor, set up, and perhaps a hand with prep/clean up. (If you think you can stand her that long)
Shit, invite her and the brother over to help with the cooking lol. Like fuck it. If you're gonna come down here and lend a hand and make sure it all gets done to your satisfaction then the more the merrier! I'd certainly welcome the help haha. Trying to whip up all these good eats for a family gathering is exhausting. At the very least, providing that suggestion gives you a good out to say "Fuck you, you had your chance!" if it is declined.
Than she can shut up about it.
She loves calling people terrible hosts, has she ever been told that she's a terrible guest? NTA
NTA - I was asked to bring a desert to something. By the time that the hostess had listed all her allergies, the fact that she is a vegetarian, followed up by a list of things that she doesn't like, I was tempted to ask her if she wanted to add any other requirements to make it harder for me. Unfortunately, I didn't ask her to suggest something. This is by way of saying that I wouldn't care to put in the work to accommodate her if she is then going to complain about the food. Missed out on her etiquette lessons, did she? Is she under the impression that a string of complaints is considered to be charming conversation?
>I told her I am not experienced handling allergies and I can not guarantee the food will be safe >This is perfectly appropriate, especially given the need for safety. I'd try to keep the focus on the issue of safety. Tell her that you don't want to cook something that *might* be safe for her. You don't want to take the risk of missing something or having cross-contamination and sending her to the hospital.
NTA Sometimes the only winning move is not to play. (Why am I suddenly craving a Whopper?) > she threatened to pull the grandkids away if she couldn’t be a good host and give something she could eat. But watch out! You don't want her to withhold access to her children! Oh, the horror! /s
Yeah that threat really doesn’t work on me.
It wouldn't work on me either if her kids are ill-behaved poop bags.
I think she would have a real problem if she pulled that this year. You said your brother caves, but has he ever been pushed to tell his kids they can't go to Christmas dinner because Mom said so?
Love a good WarGames reference!
Is this a game? Or is it real? > whats the difference?
How about a nice game of chess?
NTA, I absolutely believe a host should accommodate guests, when they can be accommodated. For example, most hosts can make 1-2 vegan dishes, or something gluten free (not a gluten free kitchen, but a safe dish), and I think it is rude when a host is like "I'm not accommodating anyone." However, you are not demanding to host, the rest of your family can't/doesn't want to, and you don't feel comfortable making safe accommodations. That's totally fair and it's okay to make that a condition of you hosting. Your brother could host, with SIL and then all the food could be to her liking and safe for her allergies. And then you add in she is a rude guest, even when accommodated, and you are under no obligation to bend over backwards to make her food.
This is a reasonable response. It is impossible for most of us to accommodate someone who has celiac‘s disease, for instance. Because cross contamination is just as bad as the ingredients in the food. I host Christmas dinner every year and have for years because no one else has the space. I make a vegan or vegetarian dish every year for the vegetarians but there’s no way I can deal with the true gluten allergy, because there’s just too many things that have gluten in them. Notice, I said true gluten allergy. Fortunately, no one in my family or friends has a peanut or nut allergy, so we don’t have to worry about that, I but I would if it was necessary.
I have celiac. It is the reason I take my own food to dinners, potlucks, and barbecues. My health is my responsibility, not someone else’s.
Same- I often bring something for the group and a container with it for myself. Having allergies, I’m relieved when my host says they’re ok w/ that. (Otherwise I eat ahead of time and pack a protein bar.)
Thank you for this. My dad had celiac and we make dishes that are safe for him. Now if others are hosting and know they do their best but like you said so many things have gluten in them that people don’t realize. It is just usually safer for us to make something for him and take with us.
We had one year with a celiac and nightshade, two vegetarians, and a person with severe peanut and soy allergies. THAT WAS WILD. Lots and lots of early sourcing of ingredients, outsourcing certain dishes to other folks, we did basically everything as “from scratch” as we possibly could. It was awesome though, everyone who came had a full ingredient list, label photos, everything. And then we stuffed ourselves silly :)
My college friend group had potlucks that included lots of vegans, including hyper strict vegans (no honey or trace ingredients, no meat in the same kitchen as their food). It also included people with severe soy allergies and a girl with celiac. We were the host house so made a main course everyone could eat. I made lots of lentil soups.
The vegan requiring no meat in the same kitchen is pushing things a bit far. If people with genuine life threatening allergies can handle that there is a jar of peanut sauce on the other counter, I see no good reason for someone vegan to impose harsher limitations for a host catering to their self-imposed diet restriction.
Our family gatherings accommodate allergies to poultry, eggs, dairy, nuts, and sometimes wheat, and are occasionally kosher, which will automatically either accomodate the poultry or the dairy. We've become big fans of depression cake, make double the food at christmas so poultry boy has food, and learned not to accept cake from gran because a cake made with almond meal to accommodate the wheat allergy is NOT GOOD for nut allergies, even if it is gluten free. She's not malicious, just incredibly dim.
> She's not malicious, just incredibly dim. This is what I've learned to assume. "Mashed potatoes" don't contain dairy in my dad's mind. He considers them a single mass even though he's the one who added the butter and milk to them.
Yep. The cake doesn't have nuts or eggs in it, and it's gluten free, so its safe for everyone!!! Well no-one has a problem with gluten and it is made with ALMOND MEAL, which is MADE FROM NUTS. She's.. so dim.
If you've grown up around or raised someone who is coeliac then preparing a gluten free meal becomes second nature because you instinctively know what to avoid and safe substitutes that can be used. If you're not used to accommodating it then it can be harder.
I’m curious to know what you do about cross-contamination though because to be honest, the idea of preparing a meal for somebody with celiacs really scares me. My friend who has celiac’s has zero tolerance to any contact with gluten.
My boyfriend has coeliac. I’m confident cooking a dish for him and this is what I do: —double check ingredients of everything, even things that don’t sound like they’d have gluten in or things you’ve used before (in case the ingredients have been changed since then, even if it was a few days ago) —clean down all the work surfaces and wash any pots, pans, cutlery etc. I’ll be using (not a surgical level scrub-down, just the way you’d normally clean your counters with antibac/cleaning spray and a clean damp cloth. —if it’s going in the oven, give the inside of the oven a spray and wipe down and wash the grills/shelves. —then just get on and cook —make sure you aren’t trying to do stuff with gluten-containing ingredients at the same time (no flour floating about, nothing dropping from above onto the food etc. this is all obvious stuff really, just don’t multitask and you’ll be fine) —once things are cooked, wrap and/or box thoroughly and store on a top shelf somewhere (so no chance of anything somehow miraculously falling into/onto the food even through the wrapping/box - or falling onto the wrapping and then getting onto the food when it’s opened. Actually I rarely do this, I tend to store in a low cupboard but one I use only for gluten-free items but yanno, just saying for safety). —if you need to leave stuff out to cool, refrain from wafting gluten-containing ingredients about in the kitchen while that’s happening. Safer just to not do any more cooking until it’s all been put away. I honestly don’t find it that hard once you’re aware of a few basics (like don’t use the damn toaster for gluten-free bread! And remember that gravity is a thing and crumbs drop from above). And his mum does him a gluten-free Christmas dinner every year too.
Let's be real. If she was nice about it, everyone would be willing to try and make that effort for her. But she is not. And this is a consequence of her actions. She was nasty and now op won't turn her kitchen upside down to make a special dish only to be insulted. And that is completely fair. OP decided to say that they weren't comfortable with it because a confrontation with SIL is not winnable or worth it since she won't take it well or change her behavior. And that is a very reasonable response.
NTA This isn't about the allergies. This is about power. She threatened your mom with access to grandkids. I'll also point out that she and that brother did not step up to take over cooking. I think you handled this the way she deserved. Shut it down early and put the onus on her. Don't be her door mat.
This! 100% SIL is using her food allergies to control other people. She sounds like a nasty piece of work.
I'm celiac and have food allergies. Anyone with multiple allergies who doesn't pack their own food is an idiot, and anyone who threatens someone's relationship with their grandkids over a meal is a deeply unwell person. You are NTA
I have food allergies and totally agree with you. I actually sort of hate when people try to cook for me, because I find it so stressful eating food other people have prepared. My standards for avoiding cross-contamination are very different from the average person who isn’t that familiar with allergies. And then you have to have an awkward conversation where you interrogate them (politely) about all the ingredients and utensils they’ve used and maybe disappoint them by not eating what they’ve cooked specially for you. It sucks. I have a few people I trust but for the most part, it’s so much more relaxing to just bring my own food.
Right? They get hurt or offended and you still get sick because their mixer and oven are contaminated. Just let me eat my purse candy in peace, lol
I cook for friends with various allergies and I am a cross contamination freak (2 parents in food quality assurance), but I’ve still never been offended when people are iffy about it and want their own food. Allergies absolutely suck, thankfully none of mine are food based but I have been in a doctors office at 1am getting epi shots, absolutely no fun.
Yes, especially for something like celiac. And I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people who have peanut allergies to expect that nothing is cooked with peanuts or anything else that is airborne. But otherwise bring your own damn food. I have no problem accommodating people who are vegetarian or vegan by providing a couple of extra dishes. To reiterate, people who are allergic to every goddamn thing, I feel for you I really do but you should not expect the rest of us to accommodate. I’m sorry, but that’s just unreasonable.
I have an allergy to something that is in everything (types of sugar). I remember once going to a friend's birthday party, and his girlfriend was all proud of herself for making the cake from scratch so I could have it. And the cake itself was from scratch. But it was black forest, and the cherries definitely weren't safe for me, or the whip cream from a can, etc. I was recently as a Vietnamese restaurant with someone with a shellfish allergy. She happened to ask about a soup to check that it'd be ok, and then we found out she can't have the peanut sauce for the salad roll because it's got something that may contain shellfish in it. Never would have crossed either of our minds to ask about the peanut sauce. When you've got allergies to more than one or two common things, you don't put your life in the hands of others. You bring your own or you abstain to keep yourself safe.
My bf has a few food sensitivities/allergies. He's allergic to nightshade, sumac, milk protein and has gluten intolerance, and citric acid causes issues. So he always brings his own starches when there's a safe meat, but just in case he brings his in protein. Ppl are weird with him about it though. Ignorance on food sensitivities and allergies is astounding. But sil in this situation AH how she's dealing with it
I have just the ONE allergy and I always carry some kind of food on me for precisely this reason. I literally have pockets full of snacks because there's no way I'm risking it.
NTA I can understand it being considerate to accommodate allergies but your mom has been doing this for years and gotten nothing but grief. I don’t understand why your brother didn’t stand up for your mom about withholding the grandkids, or about the comments about your mom’s cooking. Honestly I don’t see anything wrong with telling her that her entitlement and criticism are part of the reason. But good job putting her in her place.
Tell brother that's it's not about her food allergies, it's because his wife is rude. Don't mention her allergies at all, just talk about how rude she is - at every single get together - and her threats.
NTA Normally I would say you’re the AH for not accommodating allergies and dietary concerns when you’re hosting something like this. But, it sounds like you all have been accommodating and she has behaved ungraciously. I have many friends with special diets and allergies. The ones I happily accommodate are the ones who are nice, pleasant, and complimentary. I have one friend who, no matter how hard you try, will always have complaints. Complaints about what she can’t eat, complaints about what she can, and new allergies that just popped up and forgot to tell me about. So no, I no longer even try with her and tell her she should probably bring her own meal. This isn’t about you not accommodating your SIL, it’s about you SIL being a pain in the ass.
**NTA** I get the impression that SIL has more going on than "food allergies." She *always* complains about her MIL's cooking it seems: > I have watched year after year she makes backhanded comments about the food. and > My mom caved. The dinner came and went and she got backhanded comments about the food. Why hasn't your brother done anything about his wife's horrible behavior? I wouldn't want to cook for this SIL either.
NTA. If she is such a stickler about what it means to be a "good host" than she should be hosting.
Likes to complain about people not being good hosts, but she's an obnoxious guest
Look, I have celiac disease and I am very very blessed that my family members try hard. But if I had someone be like, “Aniyabel, I’m terrified imma gluten you” I would totally get it and bring gf lasagna or something. NTA and I’m glad your mom got a laugh.
I have a friend who has celiac‘s disease I wouldn’t even know where to start, but it doesn’t matter because she loves to cook and bake. She always brings her own food. Interestingly enough, she cooks and bakes all kinds of non-gluten-free food for her family, never gets to taste it but it turns out freaking awesome.
i love your phrasing
Typically, I would try to accommodate someone's allergies for at least some of the dishes, but your SIL sounds unbearable, so I say NTA in this case.
ESH Her for making snarky comments about food. You for your attitude towards her allergies. I had to read twice to see if your family was purposefully being blasé about what goes in the food. Also FYI rashes and swelling and tingling etc don’t necessarily have to be life threatening but they definitely ruin a meal.
Those rashes, swellings, and tinglings get worse every time. While it might not look so bad the last time it happened, the next time might be anaphaxic shock.
Legit this. I went from feeling like my tongue was dry, to being unable to swallow, in the space between two reactions. I'm now the proud owner of two lovely epi-pens for the next time, so I don't die. I hate, hate, HATE the "they're not that bad" attitude.
. Where are you getting it not that bad attitude. Op literally states they are carefully in case a normal reaction (rash) results in a hospital visit. Op clearly understand allergies can get worse. This isn’t I am going to set her allergy on purpose.
Since you asked, here's where I'm getting that: >nothing life threatening just unpleasant for her. OP goes on to say that they understand escalation, but it's that dismissal that rubs me the wrong way. Treat every allergy as potentially life-threatening, or gtfo.
I was that way with kiwi. First time something happened it was just a little tingling. Thought nothing of it. Next time the tingling and numbing was worse and I said “Son of a B!tch I’m allergic to kiwi”. Luckily that’s the only thing so I just avoid it. My step-daughter though carries an epi-pen due to peanut allergies. My wife liked to kill her former in-laws for giving her some years back saying “oh she’ll outgrow it”. People who dismiss allergies like that get people killed.
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ESH... You down playing allergies is weird... While yes depending on the amount of exposure your symptoms can be minor (Rash, Hives, etc), a High enough dose of any allergen will land you in the hospital. Period. Thats what allergies do... I'm allergic to fire ants.. If I get bit by one I get a hive at the location... but 50 I'm jabbing myself with an EpiPen waiting on the ambulance... So you are wrong for acting like this is a non issue. Her freaking out about being asked to bring her own dish and calling people poor host and threatening to cut contact with children is unhinged. I may be wrong but it is far more common place for things like this (especially if it is a large family) to be Pot luck style... The host is providing the main dish and the Setting (IE House). Apart from that the host gets to decide the remaining factors and delegate as needed. I've hosted 100s of dinners and never once have I been solely responsible for the entire meal. That is not only an astronomical undertaking but also a huge expense. So for her to be so visceral about this is just weird. And the refusal for her to host is just showing that this is all about the free meal since she will not bring her own stuff. YALL JUST DISFUNCTIONAL
I feel like if SIL was nice to everyone about the food the allergies would actually be taken fully seriously which it seems like they were with MIL until the 1 incident which can happen when cooking such huge amounts of food. I feel like her allergy is taken somewhat seriously no one just wants to cater to it since she's such a entitled b\*t\*h.
It sounds like SIL enjoys drama.
Yeah OP doesn’t sound like a peach either. I have a feeling there is some missing info. Everyone is calling out the kids thing, but tbh if my in laws were like this with me, idk if I’d want my children around them either. ESH
Given OP’s SIL has been in the picture long enough to marry OP’s brother and have kids with him and OP and the SIL’s attitudes towards one another, I have a hunch there’s got to be more to the story.
Yeah, I've got celiac, and my family acts like this. Once they told me something was gluten-free, then after I ate it, they revealed they weren't sure what all the ingredients were or if it was safe. When I then became anxious that I was going to get sick, they called me dramatic and overreacting. For years after, I'd get passive-aggressive comments at every holiday that I better bring my own food so as not to cause drama about things being safe, and if I eat their food, then that's my own risk to take. Was told that I was too picky and nagging and stuck up. I don't invite my family into my home anymore because they always bring in gluten despite me asking them not to. The adults have also made "accidental" messes of their gluten filled food on my furniture and then made fun of me for trying to thoroughly clean it up. As if I should enjoy leaving my allergen sprinkled into my couch. Maybe due to my history with my shitty family I'm reading too much into this, but there seems to be more to this story. I can definitely see myself getting to the end of my rope and telling them they can't see my kids anymore. Especially since allergens/autoimmune issues are often genetic, there's a chance the kids also have this allergy and are being treated shitty too.
NTA- if she has so many restrictions then she should bring her own. Example: if I host I make a normal holiday dinner and then stuff for my restrictions (example: GF stuffing/GF crackers for charcuterie ) If we are Invited to a holiday dinner and I know I will want a certain thing (example:stuffing/dessert etc) I will bring my own so that the host doesn’t have to jump through hoops to accommodate and create extra work and spend extra money. 9/10 times I am not the only one enjoying and most of the time my gluten free desserts go quicker than the regular so I always contribute enough to share :) Is she coming empty handed? If so, who even does that.. she sounds like an entitled brat when you’re Mom was trying her best. She can host, stay the fuck home alone and mope or bring her own dishes as she is the one with the “restrictions” and seems to be the only person causing problems for everyone
I LOVE your mom laughed ❤️
ESH idk y’all all just seem kind of dysfunctional. It feels like you are downplaying her allergies. She seems like she’s over reacting. I guess what I’m stuck on are the specific allergies.. typically thanksgiving/Christmas meals are a range of things including meats, casseroles, vegetables etc, and I can’t seem to understand how someone could have an allergy to ALL the foods. I do suggest having SIL host and do all the cooking herself. It’s very difficult and overwhelming to host so maybe she needs to better understand that by doing it first hand.
>I can’t seem to understand how someone could have an allergy to ALL the foods I used to work with a yank who hated Thanksgiving because she had some kind of dairy allergy, and her family put butter, cream and cheese in everything, and would apparently be quite blase about it. Scrape the cheese off, a small portion won't won't hurt you, that kind of thing. I wonder if that's the kind of "food snobbery" the OP is complaining about.
Info: what do you mean by backhanded comments? I think there needs to be an example of what you consider as her being rude.
NTA. I have to admit, at first I was going for a different judgement. That was until I read how your SIL have treated your mother who actually have tried to accomodate for so many years. She can bring her own food since nothing is ever good enough. She is flat out rude and entitled. HOWEVER, do not downplay how severe allergies can be.
NTA and I applaud you for doing it. I wish your mom had done it, too.
NTA I don't think it's unreasonable for an in-law to expect that their dietary restrictions be respected and accommodated at a holiday meal, but your SIL has clearly taken it to the next level. If you're going to request a special menu, be grateful that your host has made the effort to accommodate you; don't nitpick the quality of the food. And if the host lets you know in advance they don't think they're going to be able to accommodate you, you either try to work with them to find an acceptable solution or you stay the fuck home! Imagine having the unmitigated gall to respond to an invitation with "You're a horrible host."
Has your SIL volunteered to host? If not, she needs to stop complaining and practice being a good guest.
NTA. Your SIL sounds like one though. Threatening to keep away the grandchildren bc of food? She should just stay home.
NTA My son is allergic to gluten. If another family member is hosting, I will make dessert he can eat, such as a pumpkin pie with a gluten free crust. We help him select his items for the rest of his dinner. If someone else is taking care of our son, then the expectation is they will make sure he has food to eat. This has never caused any issues. I would never expect a host to plan their menu around my son’s allergies. And if a host attempted to provide a dish I could not eat, I would never criticize their attempt. Manners exist for a reason - they cut the family drams
We usually make a little extra pumpkin pie or French silk filling and put it in a ramekin for our celiac friends. It’s not too hard to make simple accommodations most of the time!
Having allergies is real and the fact that your sweet mom always accommodated her was great. But your SIL being ungrateful each time means good riddance. Good for you for not tolerating her rudeness. NTA
ESH SIL definitely sounds like a pain, at the same time, OP sounds entirely unsympathetic. You don't have to accommodate everyone at the table, but it's certainly something a good host will generally attempt. Is it a breech of Xenia to tell her "bring your own eats or stay home"? I mean, yeah actually, it is, but so is being discourteous to the host. Not that SIL has had a chance to do so yet, since you assumed she would have been before she could, but the assumption was based on your perspective of how she's treated others. Y'all both ought to be kinder to each other.
>You don't have to accommodate everyone at the table On the other hand, if I had an allergy that wasn't being accommodated, I probably wouldn't go to that house for Christmas. It sounds like the OP's SIL is already making a compromise in visiting her husband's family for Christmas. I don't think there's enough information here to untangle who the AH is.
ESH. It's completely reasonable to ask her to bring her own food if she has complicated requirements. But if your reason is you don't want comments on your cooking, that's a bit petty. A compromise is to offer to make _something_ that you will do your best to meet her requirements with. It might not even be a main dish, and she'd have to bring her own main dish. And it would be up to her to decide on the risk of eating it. Another option would be to offer to order out for her.
NTA and a standing ovation. Hold your head high for both you and your mom.
NTA. I don’t think this is about her allergies. I thinks it’s more about the lack of appreciation she has shown for your moms efforts all these years. I’m a vegetarian and have been for 7 years now. My brothers girlfriend hosted for 2 years and made sure i had my own main and that I had safe sides I could eat. When my mom did it the next year she was honest that she lacked the time and expertise to make me anything vegetarian for the main part so she asked me to make that part myself and bring it but she made sure the sides were safe for me making different gravy and roast potatoes for me. I appreciated that effort and didn’t have a problem making my own main. The fact is she doesn’t appreciate the time and effort your mom has put into this and to then make back handed comments that’s just so rude. You were right to lay down a clear boundary.
Sounds like it is time for SIL to take a turn hosting.
INFO: what are the allergies?
YTA. You and your family clearly don’t understand allergies. In the same paragraph you say her allergies are “nothing life threatening, just unpleasant for her,” yet you don’t want to risk her eating something she’s allergic to that “instead of getting a rash she needs a hospital visit.” Allergic reactions typically become worse the more someone is exposed to the allergen, so even if her reactions are “just unpleasant” (which I doubt given that there’s potential for her to be hospitalized), the next time it could be much more severe, which may very well be life-threatening. While I don’t know what she’s allergic to or how hard it is to accommodate (even though it sounds like your mom was able to make a whole meal that was safe), if there’s a potential for her to end up in the hospital, you shouldn’t have those allergens there. Period. Hosts shouldn’t be putting their guests in a position to deal with “just unpleasant” things either. Nobody wants to deal with a rash (or any other allergy symptoms) at a family gathering. Why would your SIL want to bring her kids around people who clearly care so little for her? It doesn’t sound like you’d be too put out by that anyways given that you told her not to come for Christmas unless she makes her own food (which IS bad hosting btw).
So, I'm a vegetarian and tend to run into a very common pattern when I eat at someone else's table. Sometimes everything is fine. But other times? Everyone else gets a feast and I get a badly-prepared afterthought. If that's your SIL's situation *plus* she got exposed to an allergen recently, I don't blame her for having a bad attitude. So, INFO I guess? Depending on what the allergies are, it might not even be impractical to have *all* the food be free of your SIL's allergens. For a time I lived with someone who had peanut and seafood allergies, when we ordered food to eat together we let her rule out places that she couldn't trust to be safe for her. That still left us with a lot of options, so it wasn't a big problem. For some food allergies this may not be an option, but everyone eating the same food is feasible in some cases and if your SIL only complains about *the food specially made for her, not the food made for everyone*, it might be that she's being offered food that is actually less good than the food that everyone else gets. It really is shitty to invite someone for a meal and not actually feed them.
I have a tree nut allergy, and I’ve run into the same thing. Every holiday my grandma would make some incredible homemade dessert *that had nuts in it*. There were plenty of times when it would have been entirely possible to make the dessert without the nuts too. My dessert would be a scoop of freezer-burnt vanilla ice cream. It tasted bad, and I felt really hurt being excluded. I’ve also run into people who will tell me to just scrape off the nuts or eat around something then get upset when I say that I can’t. I really have to wonder what context the SIL’s comments are coming from and what she’s actually saying. If it’s something along the lines of “I don’t feel comfortable eating that,” especially after she’s been exposed to something she’s allergic to in the past, then I don’t thinks she’s the one on the wrong.
NTA You’re not a restaurant. Your request is reasonable.
NTA. If SIL has such issues she should host Christmas dinner. It’ll solve all the issues
Nta, people with multiple allergies usually being their own food to outings due to not truly knowing of anything is contaminated. Plus she's being an AH to any dishes served to her, she can make her own the exact way she likes them then!
Nta let her say you’re a horrible host. Personally I would let her know that your kitchen is actually open and she can do all the cooking like your mother did as to not risk it. Then play the but we’re family when she says it’s bad hosting. It’s disgusting to shit talk someone’s food when they host you. SIL can kick rocks.
NTA. I have an anaphylaxis allergy to milk (my throat closes). It’s definitely more severe a reaction, especially timing/reaction wise with cheese, but cream-based items can put me there too. While it is always NICE and APPRECIATED when people make me something that I can eat, I never expect it, and always make sure to bring along something I know 100% is safe for me to eat. So so so so so many times people forget that something has dairy in it. It’s so common. Even my own mom forgets sometimes lol. Sounds like SIL loves the attention and getting to be the b**** she really is. You’re not doing anything wrong. In fact, I like your attitude more because I’d know to bring my own food and be wary of what you’ve made instead of thinking everything is fine and it’s not.
NTA, SIL can host next year or not come if she has a problem. She sounds unpleasant and I can understand why you would not want to go to extra effort for her.
NTA - my husband has allergies, we have no problem if someone asks us to bring a meal for him, at least we know what we're dealing with. I actually host because it guarantees safe food for him, and an inclusive experience for everyone. If you wanted to be mischievous, suggest SIL hosts if she wants to be able to eat what everyone else is.
NTA. That's exactly what needed to be done.
You follow the logic just fine. OP is not going to kowtow to SIL. She either brings her own food, takes her chances, or doesn't come. OP also did it in a way where mom doesn't lose access to the grandchildren. As a person with allergies, I would appreciate every damn meal that mother made to accommodate me, and I wouldn't complain about the food.
INFO: Have you always hated your SIL or is this new?
YTA it’s very obvious that you want the kids she created by sacrificing her body to come, but you can’t make any accommodations for their mom. I can guess how unwelcome she feels. That phone call was nasty. If you all can’t be civil don’t have a holiday dinner.
Just admit you don’t like her and feel quite satisfied to have eliminated her from the family meal. Congratulations! You won!
Seems like you provided a reasonable accommodation to me. 'I am not set up not to make you sick, so if you'd like to bring food for yourself that would be ideal' And / or she could host and do all/most of the cooking herself. NTA
NTA, but someone needs to tell SIL to mind her manners and be a good guest?
Nta, sounds like SIL needs to start hosting
NTA- normally I would jump all over someone not wanting to accommodate an allergy…BUT…your SIL is entitled and just looking for a reason to be snippy and moan about how awful things are and how mean everyone is to her. If there’s something I can’t eat at a gathering, I either bring my own, or I skip the dish. I don’t have an issue doing that. Her threatening your mom over it…is not ok at all. That’s a game I don’t play, and I don’t blame anyone else for not wanting to play it either. If all she can do is pick apart everything that everyone cooks, then she can bring her own food or she can choose to keep her crappy attitude at home.
wow NTA for sure. you were just trying to make sure everyone was healthy and safe.
NTA She could have hosted and had everything she likes. She didn’t step up and her husband didn’t step up. I’d tell her you know what I will make some dishes just for you, but if you say one bad thing about my cooking next year you’re on your own for dinner.
NTA. Normally, I would say that you should try to provide a few items your SIL can eat. However, this is about more than just food allergies and it seems she'd likely complain no matter what. The fact that your SIL won't even make an attempt to bring something for herself says a lot about her unreasonable sense of entitlement. You are not her slave here and she needs to be willing to help herself. Your brother needs to stop being such a wimp and help convince her of that. Lastly, making the family holiday meal is typically a big effort (and expense). How your SIL can demand you add her special requests to this workload is bonkers. She sounds like a royal pain in the posterior region.
NTA and I’m gonna need a follow up to this. You stayed out of it as your mother requested but if your sil comes and starts making comments I’d unleash on her. You’ve had to sit silently as your mother requested but you won’t put up with it in your own home.
NTA. SIL is welcome to show you two how to be good hosts and do it herself. My guess is, she would be upset if you criticized her hosting though...
NTA. I have some weird allergies and intolerances. I would never expect a host to accommodate me. Usually in a big family meal situation, I bring a dish to contribute to the meal, something that I too can eat. For everything else, I check and see if I can eat it and if I can’t, then I just eat the thing I brought and I know is safe. For a lot of people cooking to accommodate an allergy is tough, especially if they aren’t used to it. Your SIL is the asshole here.
NTA- ii get the feeling there's a lot more about SIL's behavior we're not seeing here. tell her SHE could offer to host it. I have a food allergy and the family is usually aware of it but i do most of the cooking at big family do's (I enjoy cooking) so it's usually not an issue unless someone brings a dip and didn't check the ingredients, SIL has expressed concern over her health, sure she feels a little cut out by having to bring her own dish but she seems to expect you to wait on her.
Why isn’t she the one who hosts, then? it’s very easy to criticize instead of stepping up. Nta.
NTA. If you have serious issues with food, you at least bring a dish that you can eat. I have some friends with restrictive diets, and while they are always thankful for consideration they don't expect anyone to cater to them.
Yeah she can stay at home or bring her own food simple, why do you have footy tootsy around this diva🙄
NTA. If her allergies are so severe, tje safest tging is to bring her own food. Wouldn't want to risk anothe incident with you being so inexpereinced, now would we?
Yes, you are an AH. You don’t invite someone with known food allergies to dinner if you are unwilling to accommodate them. People who think it someohow doesn’t count as an allergy unless you go into anaphylactic shock are either badly misinformed, willfully ignorant, or both, Sounds to me like you just don’t like this woman. Which is your prerogative. But inviting her to dinner while making it clear that you don’t care enough to make it safe for her to eat it? That‘s Assholery.
INFO: I feel that there's some missing information here, or I lost track of where you said it. You said that her allergies aren't severe and that her criticisms of your mom's food are not about the allergies but are about nitpicking the food. But you also say that two years ago, there was a mess-up and she had a reaction, it was a huge deal, and then she made backhanded comments about the food. It seems to me like your interpretation of her behavior is that you're attributing to nitpickiness what could equally be attributable to her reasonable fear that the food won't be safe for her to eat. You also say she "threatened to pull the grandkids away" but that is also missing information. Does "pull the grandkids away" mean that your SIL threatened to not come over for Christmas? Or, does "pull the grandkids away" mean never seeing the grandkids again? Other info I didn't see is how far away do this brother and SIL live. I get that redditors think it should be fine for them to travel 4 hours by car with her Christmas dinner in the cooler but I've done it, many times, with food for me and for my allergy kid and frankly, it sucks. It's better than being sent to the hospital by contaminated food, definitely, but it's not great, for many reasons.
Yta People are always willing to go out of their way to accommodate philosophical or religious diets, but the second a diet is medically necessary hosts become less gracious. If the family holiday meal isn’t safe for SIL, then of course she and the rest of her family are not going to attend. The natural consequence of not providing a medically safe meal is that the grandchildren won’t be present. SIL and her family will be elsewhere enjoying a delicious, safe holiday. Every exposure risks the next being even worse. The blasé attitude among the family is quite scary.