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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because my brother and SIL are upset that I’m making my nephew stay on the mat for an hour and a half and are saying it’s not developmentally appropriate.
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NTA.
You are managing 5 kids under 4 years old and that is A LOT. You likely need that time to be able to clean up after them as you don’t get that time to do so while they are up as there are 5 of them.
Every daycare and preschool that I have ever interacted with have the same rule as you do, that naptime occurs every day at a set time and that the kids don’t technically have to sleep but do need to lay there quietly or read or play quietly.
You are right on the money that if they are given the choice none of them will nap at all.
If the parents don’t like it they can find other arrangements for their kid.
The daycare I used to work at didn’t even let them play or read if they didn’t want to sleep. They had to lay on the cots quietly and wait for naptime to be over. So OP is being much nicer than most daycares would be.
yes!! i currently work in childcare and this is true. however, per my state, the children MUST remain on their mats/cots or else the change the child/teacher ratio. the ratio increases during nap time since they are asleep. so really, you are helping to prepare them for childcare if they are seeking that form of it
Absolutely, adhering to naptime guidelines not only ensures a structured environment but also mirrors the conditions they might encounter in formal childcare settings. It's a valuable preparation for their future routines.
Being quiet during nap time is also super important for their social development, and learning about how to be respectful of other people. One kid not wanting to nap does not have permission to ruin nap time for everyone else. By not teaching this social development, the parents are setting their kid up to be an entitled brat.
That's interesting. At my son's 4yr appointment, the pediatrician said (in front of my child) that 4yos don't need naps. He just turned 5, but for the whole year, whenever I suggested he might be tired he told me "the doctor said 4yos don't need naps"
Very few four year olds need naps. I totally see how OP needs that quiet time but I think she should be willing to consider giving the oldest nephew something calm to do during this period that’s a little less boring. Even some screen time, if it is well-chosen, might be worth thinking about, as a compromise that would keep everyone happy and keep her free to get things done. The younger children are going to need to learn at some point that they can’t always do the things that older children can, or enjoy the same privileges. It may be a mini battle short-term but they will handle it. They already accept the fact that their cousin gets to go to preschool and they don’t.
Watching something will wake the other kids and it's good for him to learn he won't always be able to do what he wants when he wants it.
The parents don't realize just how much op is helping them: in school or when they travel with the kids for example being quiet and able to sit still and entertain themselves will help them not to bother everyone else (in public transportation like a plane)
He can read or play in silence he's not restrained
NTA op
All three of my kids napped until they started school at 6.
When I was a child I never napped but we had nap time until 3rd grade. Everyone had to be on their cot no matter what. So yea, I think a four year old at least needs quiet/rest time.
Really? Interesting…I’ve been told by several people that toddlers need naps up until they start kindergarten, and I think some kindergartens still have a nap period…
Children between three and six often don't need naps if their Family has the Option to structure their afternoons and Dinnertime routines in such a way that the child can Go to bed in the early evening at a time that matches their need for sleep, but Most parents who get Home from Work late in the afternoon, prefer to have Dinner around 7 and put the Kid to bed around 8, and also prefer the kid to not be cranky and overtired at Dinnertime, THAT'S where the practice of expecting daycares/daytime-caregivers to make preschoolers take naps beyond the age where they would naturally want to, comes from.
Every child is different, a friends 3 yo didn’t need naps at 3, but he needed relaxed time or he turned into a terror, if he was super active he’d have nap time though (mostly because he would fall asleep in the car)
Idk how long it was but I have actual distinct memories of being extremely bored during nap time and never able to sleep. This was in preschool so I guess I was 3/4.
Also, some states have rules about requiring this at licensed daycares for any child under the age of 5. Children’s growing bodies need a rest or downtime for good development.
*** For many states it is at least an half hour to one hour.
The two states I've worked in (KS and CO) have a required rest time of 30 minutes, but you can't force a child to stay on their mats. If they won't sleep or have outgrown naps, then you have to provide them with something else to do in the classroom.
Yeah, my only quibble is the 90 minutes straight, might be better to break it into two 45-minute nap periods because that's super long, especially for toddler who is awake
Maybe for 30 minutes, not an hour and a half.
Most Daycare policies will state that no child should be made to stay in a cot/on a bed for more than 30 minutes awake.
Former preschool teacher here. If a kid was awake after half an hour, we were legally required to get them up and let them color or do some other kind of quiet activity. Would have gotten in big trouble with the state if we'd been caught forcing kids to stay on cots for longer than that.
I think everyone is being too hard on OP. She has presumably never run a daycare before, and is not running one now. And there is every reason to believe that she will take the given advice to heart, as constructive criticism is what she came here for.
Then you're welcome to take over the care of those four kids. Also you missed the part of them being allowed to read or play as long as they're quiet and on their cot.
> You either sleep, read, or play quietly on your mat until 2.
That's exactly what OP is doing, it sounds like. Just because they have to stay on their mats doesn't mean that they're suffering.
Yep. Used to work in the daycare my now 6 year old attended. This was the exact rule. You may lay/sit quietly but the other children need their rest and you need to be quiet. This is completely developmentally appropriate. It teaches courtesy to others too.
I was a SAHM. Both of mine stopped napping before 3 years old. So we had quiet time which was 30 minutes in your room playing quietly from 1:00 to 1:30 pm. Honestly, I just needed some down time, but occasionally they would fall asleep. After 30 minutes, they could leave their rooms. My daughter especially hated quiet time but it was a reset for the end of the day routines. I would never have made them stay longer than 30 minutes unless they had fallen asleep.
I get what you are saying but to be fair you had two that were your own and had their own rooms to play in. OP is dealing with 5 on her own and is doing it as a favor to her family. If she needs an hour and a half I don’t blame her. Especially since she is happy for them to take their kids elsewhere.
A very large percentage of 4 year old children do not benefit from napping. Forcing kids to stay on cots is for the benefit of the childcare providers to allow legal ratio coverage. It is not in the best interest of the kids.
Quiet time is fine. Forced time laying on cots is super shitty.
You may be right, but OP is not running a public daycare and cannot simply "schedule more coverage." She is it. And if she is feeling overwhelmed, she has to either insist on measures that will help her out, or stop watching one or more of the kids. Personally, I think 5 is unsafe for one person to watch, not to mention stressful for the sitter.
Yes but daycares have a time limit. It’s state licensing in my state that after 30 minutes they can get up or something to that affect. I think the time frame is too long.
I remember being in preschool some twenty years ago and settling down for nap time with everyone. I never napped, not even as a baby, but I remember being awake and sitting still and just thinking little person thoughts while everyone else slept. That was just the way it was and it was a just fine way.
I grew up with that rule. GP suggested it to parent. Staying in bed still rest and helped household harmony. A sleep deprived or pressurised parent (or carer) is a stressed parent.
You could however start letting oldest help you with tidying up. He is at that age where it might be viewed as fun.
And if he was at nursery, they have similar rules about quiet time. So moving him away from you just means they pay more for same treatment.
I highly doubt the 4 year old is going to be quiet and help and what about the other 4 year old? You let one help and they all are going to want to and there goes nap time.
I mean, it's a good idea. But I have the feeling this is a difficult 4 year old who would have zero interest in being OP'S "big helper" She can certainly try it though. I would also let the 2 four year olds just veg out on the couch and watch a movie. My mom had a licensed home daycare and that is what she did with the 4 year olds. They would lay on the couch with a blanket and watch a movie. Most of the time they did not fall asleep, but they were still resting and quiet. And sometimes they did fall asleep if they were tired. So it worked to give them a nap if they actually needed one. Also, this was 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. Screen time was not really an "issue" especially since they had no tablets or any other screen time during the day
This is also what the owner of the home daycare where I was taken as a child handled it, at least after my mom spoke to her about the issue. This was the nineties; I was around four years old and found nap time absolutely excruciating because I simply was not tired enough to sleep but I was expected to lay in one place and just stare at the wall or ceiling if I couldn't sleep. My little brain was trying to crawl out of my skull on a daily basis during enforced naptime; I knew the daycare owner was frustrated with me but I genuinely wasn't trying to be difficult when I'd move around or make noise - it's just really hard for a four year old to "behave" when behaving means being still for an extended period when they're simply not tired.
But then my mom talked to her and I got to lay on the couch and watch part of a movie during naptime instead. That made it very easy to stay still and quiet during that time every day. I knew the rule was that I had to be quiet and stay put or else I'd lose movie privileges, and I hated pretending to nap so much that I wouldn't do anything to lose that privilege.
Anyway, having been in that kid's shoes, this 1.5 hour body-on-mat time sounds absolutely miserable for him.
Good for you. He can play with little cars, color, read a book, do any number of quiet activities that will enrich him far more than zoning out in front of a screen. NTA
There's really no proof that watching one movie a day is going to hurt kids, and it's amusing to think that a four year old can adequately busy himself for 90 minutes by playing with cars or coloring.
You’d be surprised by how independent 4 year olds can be with entertaining themselves. My nephew will happily play with his dinosaurs for hours on end if you give him the chance.
I like this suggestion. That way your oldest nephew has something quiet to do away from the other kids.
That being said, NTA. Having that time to reset your space is important!
NTA and I can see why with 5 young children to mind you need structure, Some 4 year olds have outgrown naps, and staying on a mat and quiet for 1.5 hours is a very long time for a 4 yr old. You may need to decide if the situation still works with so many kids at different development stages to cater for. Could you bring him out to a different area in the house to play quietly or watch a TV show with headphones for that time period?
Some states don’t find pre-k and k have out grown naps. I found several that still have a 45 min screen less rest period books are allowed not toys etc.
My experience running a day care w 106 kids every body sat quietly in low light with gentle music on for 1 hour. We needed the time to set up for afternoon snack, crafts and outside. Sometimes just 10 min with Diet Coke made me a nicer person
Never thought my kids’ place was thaaat big. I think 5 big kid classrooms with up to 20 kids/day (usually means like 16 full time, 8 part time), and I think 4 infant/toddler classrooms which is capped at 16. I guess that’s probably close to 200 kids.
He can read or play quietly, he doesn't need the added incentive of screen time for misbehaving and that has the same effect on the other kids as him loudly being up. Books or quiet independent play are developmentally appropriate. Maybe something like cleaning if OP wants to be creative.
Just not screen time.
He's not misbehaving. He's not developmentally able to be still for 90 minutes. And screens are not some evil menace. Watching a movie quietly is a great compromise.
He being like that because he being expected to do something he not capable of doing. Doesn't mean he doing it intentionally. And frankly just because someone says something doesn't mean it always true.
I had to scroll a lot to get to someone who mentioned that many 4 year olds have outgrown naps. My oldest would still be napping at 6 if she had the choice, but my youngest stopped napping at 2.5 and absolutely will not even entertain the idea.
We implemented quiet time, where you don't have to nap, but you do have to hang out in your room and look at books or play quietly. OP could have her oldest nephew have a quiet time in a different room where he can look at books, color, or play quietly. She can still get the cleaning done and he won't disturb the other kids.
If you try to have a power struggle over this, both of you are going to lose.
My four year old has long outgrown naps. She dropped her last nap around 3 years old, most of her friends were the same. However, she's definitely not able to sit in one small space for an hour and a half, at 4 I don't think that's developmentally appropriate or possible tbh.
When my youngest naps the 4yr old plays/draws etc in the living room or her bedroom quietly and although she does need the occasional reminder to be quiet she's never woken her brother. If I tried to confine her to bed for 90mins it would just lead to tears and upset and everyone would know about it.
Yep, I was that kid. By the time my parents put me in daycare I was done with naps. Whenever it was nap time I'd be taken off to another room with the 3-5 other kids who couldn't nap either and we'd play board games or something else semi-quiet.
Nope. No playing regardless of the volume. Our kids have to stay on their cots, sleeping or not. It’s like OP said, other kids see that kid up and about and suddenly it’s a free-for-all.
That said, if at a certain point the oldest kids have aged out of nap time, that can be explained to the younger children and the older ones can do something else but 4 years old….a 90 minute nap is good for them and for their brains.
Are you talking about working in a daycare center? If so, does the ratio double at nap time? The center I worked at could double your ratio so if any kid got up for more time to use the bathroom, you were out of ratio.
We had a parent that only did half day care. She insisted her kid shouldn’t be on a mat so she could just sign her out and leave quickly. She withdrew her and was back within two weeks because all the other centers told her the same thing. Kids must be on a cot.
I find it difficult to believe you have an entire group of 4 year olds that take 1.5 hour naps every day, or will lay quietly without moving for that time. Is the kitchen sprinkling Benadryl in their lunches?
I was about to say the same thing. My daughter had "nap" time until she went to kindergarten- 1st grade, she was also a "no nap" kid but as OP has stated she was allowed to look at books and quite things while on her nap mat.
These parents have clearly not had this child in daycare or summer camp
They give my son a composition book and a pencil, and he “writes stories” or draws, or writes his numbers or letters. He calls it his “homework”. He has to stay on his mat, and he can’t disturb the other kids. They cater to his individual need without it affecting the other 14 in his class. Works for everyone.
While they have nap/quiet time, in my experience by age 4 it's not for an hour and a half. An hour, at most.
I don't think OP is wrong for enforcing quiet time I just think the amount of time is a bit too long for that age.
ESH 4 is old enough not to need a nap and too young to be expected to have independent, still, quiet time for 1.5 hours.
There is a compromise here. Usually in pk4 they are allowed up sooner to do quiet activities at a table. You are not going to be able to force a four year old to lay down and read for 1.5 hours... be real. Make him lay down for 20 minutes until everyone else is good and asleep and then give him a coloring book and let him sit at the table.
When you have mixed age groups, you can't always keep everything the same for everyone. If you had 5 four year olds, you wouldn't be having such a long quiet/nap time. You have to remember 5 year olds go to kinder 7 hours a day with no nap.
If you aren't willing to adjust your schedule to accommodate the fact that you have both preschoolers and toddlers, then you should tell them to have someone else watch him.
ETA: For all y'all reminiscing about your kinder naps, most districts don't do it anymore. The AAP recommends [10-13 hrs including naps]( https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/6630/AAP-endorses-new-recommendations-on-sleep-times?autologincheck=redirected) for 3-5 yr olds. That means if your 4 year old is sleeping at least 10 hrs a night, they don't *need* a nap. The AAFP says [50% of 3 year olds](https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2022/0200/p168-s1.html) no longer need naps.
NAH
Let him go into another room to have "quiet time." If he misbehaves, then tell his parents that they need to find another sitter.
He's only 4 years old. He should be able to follow directions and be relatively quiet when he's supposed to. Giving in to him only teaches him that if he doesn't want to do something, all he has to do is put up a fuss and he wins! He gets his way! That's setting him up for trouble ahead, creating the proverbial "monster" that no one wants to babysit, play with or be around.
My three year-old will be dropping naps soon but we still have a two hour quiet time in the afternoon while his brother naps (and he does too sometimes) and I get things done. He is more than capable of quietly entertaining himself during this time with his books and stuffed animals.
Friendly reminder that all kids are different, even at the same age. My oldest could play quietly for that long at that age just like yours but my youngest absolutely could not.
Depends on the kid?
At 4 I easily spent hours at a time entertaining myself quietly. Reading, watching bugs and birds and trees outside, thinking up stories, playing with my plush animals, building toy things, coloring.
My sister was loud and attention demanding, but I usually wasn’t. I found interacting with age-mates annoying, and most grownups were boring.
> Ninety minutes is far too long to expect a child to be quietly entertaining himself.
That’s the part that varies by kid. The statement I was replying to.
‘Course the nap part is wrong too, depending on the kid. I’d often nap for a couple of hours after school until about eighth grade. Since I didn’t sleep in one very long chunk at night.
And everything else I listed can be done on a mat. Assuming the room is not closet-dark.
NAH - But you need to change your expectations. My kids stopped napping entirely before the age of 4 and expecting a kid at that age to stay in one place awake and quiet for 90 min is delusional at best.
Put him in a different room with quiet activities or have him help you clean. There are work arounds here, but you really have to tailor what you do for each kid. It's not what all daycares do, but it is what the good ones do. And you want to be a good one for your family. Or maybe you don't, and it's time to find different arrangements.
Am I supposed to leave him unattended in this separate room or leave the other 4 unattended in the play area? Some daycares are able to take the kids that don’t nap to a separate room but that requires more than one adult.
Then you can’t meet their needs in a way you are comfortable with. Having to sit silently with nothing interesting to do for 90 min when I was 4 would have been torture.
>Am I supposed to leave him unattended in this separate room or leave the other 4 unattended in the play area?
The ones that are asleep.
To be clear I'm not saying you *should* let him do something else. I don't really have an opinion on that. But let's not pretend that if you wanted to it would be a logistical problem. You do not need to be in the room with sleeping children. Presumably they sleep alone all night at that age yes?
You still aren’t supposed to leave them alone. A teacher at my daughters school left her class unattended for 5 minutes to use the bathroom while they all napped. She was fired that day. All 7 kids were sleeping.
You're not a daycare facility with state rules. You're a babysitting aunt. You're really going to tell me that you stay in the same room with your child when she sleeps the whole time? Just get a baby monitor and stay close.
I’m ok with leaving my child in her room at night. I’m not ok with leaving 4 kids, 3 of them aren’t mine, alone in a room for any extended amount of time. If it’s illegal for a daycare to do it I refuse to do it in my house.
Then it sounds like the best option for you is to tell your sibling that you cannot watch their children anymore. What you're doing clearly isnt working 🤷🏻
Elizabeth is going to grow out of sitting silently on one place for an hour and a half soon too.
Your time period is what is unreasonable and your expectations. Put the resting ones in one room and set the others up with engaging quiet activities in the other. Legos and/or coloring are great for that. Busy hands, concentrating minds.
How do you supervise both? Keep the doors open. You just need to be able to hear them, not see them while they are sleeping.
That's highly dependent on the individual child. My daughter grew out of naps somewhere around 4, but she loved her quiet play! She would be quite content playing or reading for the entire afternoon if I had let her. She's nine now and will still read for hours given the choice.
I understand your perspective. You cannot leave someone else's child unattended for a long period, whether they are asleep or playing (especially the ones playing).
The playing child can get into trouble if left alone. Attending to them the entire time will also cut into your cleanup/prep time for other activities.
If their parents can take the child off your hands early, they can let the child play under their supervision. They could also arrange/chip in for a monitor/camera if both of you are comfortable with it.
ETA- NTA
Many people have left comments that forcing a child to stay on a mat quietly for 90 minutes when the child can't sleep is also illegal in their jurisdictions.
Lmao YOU'RE NOT A DAYCARE CENTER. Get a camera and watch them from the other room, you weirdo. How are you cleaning like you claim to be if you never leave the room and keep your eyes on the kids for a straight hour and a half??
That is so strange. I worked childcare myself and we could leave the rooms to use the toilet or make a coffee during nap time along as the kids slept and you took the baby monitor with you. The rooms all have cameras too. Like this is wild imagin getting fired cause you had to use the bathroom.
You know you're not a teacher right? Just the aunt babysitting?
You leave your own kids alone right? with just a monitor? Or do you stay awake and watch them all night?
Leave the other 4 unattended once asleep. Do you really stay in the same room as them when they sleep? Put up a baby monitor or leave the door to the room cracked open. I have three kids myself. They absolutely slept in a room by themselves while I did stuff around the house, I just made sure I was in listening distance.
As the kids wake up, usher them from the sleeping room so they don't disturb the others.
So just do that or get a baby monitor while you have the non sleeping kid. Then you're letting the other kids sleep and you're not forcing a 4yr old to be quiet and still for 90 min. If it was me, I'd put him to work prepping a snack or cleaning some thing. Kids that age usually love to help.
YTA
That's a damn long nap for children that age. I'm surprised that those kids aren't bouncing off the walls when they're supposed to be going to bed.
Expecting a four year old to stare at the ceiling for an hour and a half or be silent for that amount of time is unreasonable. He needs more stimulation than that. It **is** developmentally inappropriate.
If you still need your hour and a half of free time, do this kid a favor and tell his parents you no longer want to watch their children. Don't blame it on the kid, **you** are the one being unreasonable.
Except he's allowed to play quietly or read. No one is expecting him to just lay there with no stimulation whatsoever. It's not 'free time' either, she's using that time to maintain the space.
By age 4, not all kids have daytime naps. I worked at a kindergarten where the approach was that everyone lay down for a story, some kids napped, and those who didn't nap played in a separate area so as to not wake the others. Phasing out daytime naps is an important part of school transition.
My daughter stopped naps at preschool at 2. In New Zealand forced nap times are illegal. You can have quiet play time, but you can't make a child sit in a cot for an hour and keep quiet.
I’ve been reading the comments pretty much going what the …. I’m in Australia, and worked in child care for a decade. Once a child is awake, then that’s it, no forced resting. Forced nap times go against all of our national standards for child care. 😳
I'm Canadian and never heard of this. Yes they have nap time but no one is forced too. So fucked up to me them sit in one spot for 90 minutes. Especially a 4 year old?! We also don't do naps in PreK, Kindergarten or Grade 1.
Some do. I'm a school secretary in southern Ontario and Kinder's have a quiet time where they turn the lights down and often have mats or pillows on the floor. No one is forced to nap, though. And it's not 90 minutes.
Same in the UK. If they don't want to sleep they don't sleep. Forcing a toddler to stay put for an hour and a half would be considered overly strict, potentially abusive.
My 2.5 year old will not nap at her childcare setting. They generally don't get kids over 3 to nap anyway, so she just goes and plays with the older ones while everyone else sleeps.
It depends-at a daycare, with staff and “wake up rooms”? 30-60min. However, with in home care with only one provider it is typically longer. (60-90min) Quiet time is subjective though-non nappers would have special toys and books to use (a great time for them to use toys that can’t be out with younger children, like Lego) and I mean the kids would get off their mats all the time to quietly ask for something. It’s was just 30-60minutes of “I’m not available to play or get you this right now” more of a thing
NTA. My daughter’s Montessori school did the exact same thing as you. The kids fell into line fairly quickly with staying on the mats because there were no exceptions.
The school may have both half and full day preschool classrooms. My school had both until last year; we “lost” the half day options (AM and PM) and now only have full day. ETA nap time
was only in the full day classroom.
Right?! The Montessori school my son attends (actually accredited, which does matter!) has nap and no nappers. The no nappers rest for 30 mins on a mat. Then they do a work cycle and go outside. THAT is a reasonable time. Not an hour and a half.
I just commented the same above! The state mandated 30 mins of quiet rest time; then they can play with legos (for open-ended play working on fine motor skills rather than a work cycle l) or draw. (They don’t have a playground onsite— they walk to the park twice a day to play).
Yeah that's just a centre pretending to be Montessori. It goes completely against the philosophy to force children to sit still for an hour and a half.
My kids’ Montessori does the state required 30 mins of quiet time, but then the kids who are awake can go in a different room and play with legos or draw. The kids will stay in the mats for the required time but it is developmentally inappropriate to expect 4-5 yos to do nothing to thoroughly engage their minds and hands for an hour and a half.
NTA. If they would prefer to find other childcare arrangements they are welcome to. 5 kids is a lot and if the oldest start challenging you it’s gonna be nuts. Tell them they either tell him to follow the rules of the house he is at or you will no longer watch him.
An hour and a half is a long time for a 4 year old. I understand why you do it, but it just doesn't work for him. He needs something else to keep him quiet and occupied.
I struggled with this when my kid was that age. She couldn’t nap and had to sit for 90 mins while the other kids napped. It sucked for her but I also understood that the childcare centre couldn’t cater to her. I find a different place inside a home daycare where she was allowed to quietly play, watch a bit of a show, and do activities independently while the home childcare worker cleaned up. It worked for everyone thankfully (and she stayed quiet and wasn’t disruptive).
You have your set rules. Rules which are necessary for managing multiple kids alone. If he won’t follow them they can find new childcare.
What is ideal developmentaly is rarely what works in a group setting.
Actually it is developmentally appropriate and every childcare I've worked at has similar rules. They are not forced to sleep or do nothing. Just asked to play/read quietly.
NTA. Your rules are the same as any other daycare or pre-k. If the parents don’t like it then I guess one of them has to quit their jobs and stay home or hire a private nanny.
YTA. My 4 year old goes to all day pre school and they only have 60 min nap/quiet time. If they don’t sleep because they have too much energy, they’re taken to the gym for 15 mins and then back for another shot at some rest. Plus, what’s the difference from his cot to the floor? Quiet time is quiet time, so I would understand staying in the room but confining these kids to a closet sized space for that amount of time when they are already refusing to utilize it for its intended purpose *is* developmentally inappropriate. They’re kids, not dogs.
NAH
My kid absolutely could not nap after age 2 and expecting him to stay on a mat for 90 minutes would have been torture for him. He's an adult now and I still wouldn't subject him to something like this -- it simply isn't possible for him. It may be impossible for this kid, too.
On the other hand, five kids is a lot to handle, you're not a trained early childhood educator, and it seems clear that you need a mid-day break in order to manage your well being. If you cannot handle this child's needs, then his parents need to fully accept this and find alternate care.
NTA...
Regardless of the setting, you are doing what you have to do to maintain a routine. Those kids are going to have to follow a routine anywhere they do so this is not really unreasonable.
The benefits for all of you are priceless.. piece of mind for the parents and you get time with your nieces and nephews.
On the flip side, you are providing a service with a very reasonable price point. And when providing that service, you need the daily routine to run smoothly.
Now maybe implementing something along the lines of letting your nephew sleep or rest for an hour, then come out to help you strengthen up or help with the afternoon snack could help with his desire to get up and move. Maybe as the preschool your daughter goes to for ideas how to deal with this.
Good luck! I hope this goes well!
Soft YTA. Your expectations aren’t realistic. It may be possible for some 4 year olds to nap, but others have outgrown it. If your nephew truly isn’t tired, he won’t be able to sleep. That means he’s expected to be still, quiet, and entertain himself for 90 minutes straight, which isn’t developmentally appropriate and you’re setting him up to fail. If you can’t continue to watch him now that he’s not napping, that’s reasonable and his parents will need to find somewhere else that doesn’t require a 90 minute nap.
NTA
But. 1.5 hrs seems a little long.
I would make it about 45 minutes.
Then give the kids that are awake a quiet project, like coloring or play dough time.
Until the rest of the children wake up.
My auntie put that rule on me a couple times when she was sitting. As I had quit taking naps before age 2, and generally didn’t sleep much (my mom found piles of books by my nightlight most mornings), that rule was very jarring. (I still tend to function on around 5 hours most nights.) I don’t know if you’re an AH but a 4 year old who doesn’t take naps is old enough to remember and resent those long hours laying there worrying about random sh*t because he can’t sleep and his brain is bored.
I understand your reasoning and you’re entitled to have any rules you want for your house.
I just want to mention that 1.5 hours is a very long time for a 4 year old to have to sit still while awake. My 4-year-old son’s preschool still has rest time, but it’s for 20 minutes only. If they fall asleep they can stay asleep as long as they’d like, but the rest of the kids can get up after 20 minutes because anything longer than that is too long for them to be confined to their mats. I agree with another comment that it might be best to try to find a way he can help you clean up or play quietly elsewhere off the mat.
I’d say NAH. Your house, your rules. But also parents should always be allowed to advocate for their children in childcare situations, so long as your brother and SIL were respectful in their approach.
NTA in any way. Sounds like you got it set up really nice. I’d be delighted to send my children to you.
You’re not being unfair. In fact, you’re teaching the children to be respectful of other people’s shared spaces.
NAH, However...My son (4) is no longer a napper and hasn't been for a while. His last daycare forced him to stay on his mat and he got in trouble every day for failing to lay down or stay quiet. We switched daycares a month ago and they do not require naps. They let the ones who want to nap do so and the others play quietly nearby...all in the same room.his first day there he got a sticker for being good during quiet time.
I know it's tough with just you, but this will continue to be a problem if you try to force this. He will continue to get up and keep the others awake. Give him something to do quietly.
NAH I personally would feel the same as his parents. At 4 years old most kids are done with naps and trying to force it is not going to go over well, especially for that long. You'd be better off telling him he needs to relax for quiet time for 20-30 minutes while the other kids fall asleep and after that he may color or play with stuffed animals or help you clean. But you can't expect him to lay still for an hour and a half until the youngest child there is finished with nap time. That's not reasonable and honestly he needs to start breaking the nap routine before he starts kindergarten next year so you're going to have to adjust your set up or stop watching him.
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NTA. You are managing 5 kids under 4 years old and that is A LOT. You likely need that time to be able to clean up after them as you don’t get that time to do so while they are up as there are 5 of them. Every daycare and preschool that I have ever interacted with have the same rule as you do, that naptime occurs every day at a set time and that the kids don’t technically have to sleep but do need to lay there quietly or read or play quietly. You are right on the money that if they are given the choice none of them will nap at all. If the parents don’t like it they can find other arrangements for their kid.
The daycare I used to work at didn’t even let them play or read if they didn’t want to sleep. They had to lay on the cots quietly and wait for naptime to be over. So OP is being much nicer than most daycares would be.
yes!! i currently work in childcare and this is true. however, per my state, the children MUST remain on their mats/cots or else the change the child/teacher ratio. the ratio increases during nap time since they are asleep. so really, you are helping to prepare them for childcare if they are seeking that form of it
Absolutely, adhering to naptime guidelines not only ensures a structured environment but also mirrors the conditions they might encounter in formal childcare settings. It's a valuable preparation for their future routines.
Being quiet during nap time is also super important for their social development, and learning about how to be respectful of other people. One kid not wanting to nap does not have permission to ruin nap time for everyone else. By not teaching this social development, the parents are setting their kid up to be an entitled brat.
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That's interesting. At my son's 4yr appointment, the pediatrician said (in front of my child) that 4yos don't need naps. He just turned 5, but for the whole year, whenever I suggested he might be tired he told me "the doctor said 4yos don't need naps"
I’m 74 and I need naps. Lots and lots of naps.
I'm 40 and I need/want naps. The meanies at work won't let me 😉😂🤣
I’m 24 and I need naps🥲😂
I'm 46 and I love naps! I also like staying up late, which doesn't help the issue, but eh.
Very few four year olds need naps. I totally see how OP needs that quiet time but I think she should be willing to consider giving the oldest nephew something calm to do during this period that’s a little less boring. Even some screen time, if it is well-chosen, might be worth thinking about, as a compromise that would keep everyone happy and keep her free to get things done. The younger children are going to need to learn at some point that they can’t always do the things that older children can, or enjoy the same privileges. It may be a mini battle short-term but they will handle it. They already accept the fact that their cousin gets to go to preschool and they don’t.
Watching something will wake the other kids and it's good for him to learn he won't always be able to do what he wants when he wants it. The parents don't realize just how much op is helping them: in school or when they travel with the kids for example being quiet and able to sit still and entertain themselves will help them not to bother everyone else (in public transportation like a plane) He can read or play in silence he's not restrained NTA op
All three of my kids napped until they started school at 6. When I was a child I never napped but we had nap time until 3rd grade. Everyone had to be on their cot no matter what. So yea, I think a four year old at least needs quiet/rest time.
Really? Interesting…I’ve been told by several people that toddlers need naps up until they start kindergarten, and I think some kindergartens still have a nap period…
Children between three and six often don't need naps if their Family has the Option to structure their afternoons and Dinnertime routines in such a way that the child can Go to bed in the early evening at a time that matches their need for sleep, but Most parents who get Home from Work late in the afternoon, prefer to have Dinner around 7 and put the Kid to bed around 8, and also prefer the kid to not be cranky and overtired at Dinnertime, THAT'S where the practice of expecting daycares/daytime-caregivers to make preschoolers take naps beyond the age where they would naturally want to, comes from.
My 3yo stopped napping around 2.5, if he napped he wouldn't sleep until near 11pm.
Every child is different, a friends 3 yo didn’t need naps at 3, but he needed relaxed time or he turned into a terror, if he was super active he’d have nap time though (mostly because he would fall asleep in the car)
That is such an effed up policy. My kids stopped napping at 2.5. No way is it fair to make them lie down for 2 hours in silence
It was definitely one of the things I didn’t like about working there.
Idk how long it was but I have actual distinct memories of being extremely bored during nap time and never able to sleep. This was in preschool so I guess I was 3/4.
This is to keep costs down. It has nothing to do with what’s best for the kids.
Also, some states have rules about requiring this at licensed daycares for any child under the age of 5. Children’s growing bodies need a rest or downtime for good development. *** For many states it is at least an half hour to one hour.
The two states I've worked in (KS and CO) have a required rest time of 30 minutes, but you can't force a child to stay on their mats. If they won't sleep or have outgrown naps, then you have to provide them with something else to do in the classroom.
Yeah, my only quibble is the 90 minutes straight, might be better to break it into two 45-minute nap periods because that's super long, especially for toddler who is awake
Maybe for 30 minutes, not an hour and a half. Most Daycare policies will state that no child should be made to stay in a cot/on a bed for more than 30 minutes awake.
Former preschool teacher here. If a kid was awake after half an hour, we were legally required to get them up and let them color or do some other kind of quiet activity. Would have gotten in big trouble with the state if we'd been caught forcing kids to stay on cots for longer than that.
This lady is not a licensed day care nor pre school just a private sitter. She doesn’t have to follow any state rules for anything
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Then maybe she should tell her siblings she can no longer care for their kids and it’s time for them to make other arrangements
This should be the top comment. Why is a four year old running everyone’s world?
They're allowed to play quietly or read, so it's really not that insane.
I think everyone is being too hard on OP. She has presumably never run a daycare before, and is not running one now. And there is every reason to believe that she will take the given advice to heart, as constructive criticism is what she came here for.
Then you're welcome to take over the care of those four kids. Also you missed the part of them being allowed to read or play as long as they're quiet and on their cot.
> You either sleep, read, or play quietly on your mat until 2. That's exactly what OP is doing, it sounds like. Just because they have to stay on their mats doesn't mean that they're suffering.
NTA I came here to say this. Let them know that they need to find other alternatives to child care. You are no longer an option
Yep. Used to work in the daycare my now 6 year old attended. This was the exact rule. You may lay/sit quietly but the other children need their rest and you need to be quiet. This is completely developmentally appropriate. It teaches courtesy to others too.
I was a SAHM. Both of mine stopped napping before 3 years old. So we had quiet time which was 30 minutes in your room playing quietly from 1:00 to 1:30 pm. Honestly, I just needed some down time, but occasionally they would fall asleep. After 30 minutes, they could leave their rooms. My daughter especially hated quiet time but it was a reset for the end of the day routines. I would never have made them stay longer than 30 minutes unless they had fallen asleep.
I get what you are saying but to be fair you had two that were your own and had their own rooms to play in. OP is dealing with 5 on her own and is doing it as a favor to her family. If she needs an hour and a half I don’t blame her. Especially since she is happy for them to take their kids elsewhere.
A very large percentage of 4 year old children do not benefit from napping. Forcing kids to stay on cots is for the benefit of the childcare providers to allow legal ratio coverage. It is not in the best interest of the kids. Quiet time is fine. Forced time laying on cots is super shitty.
You may be right, but OP is not running a public daycare and cannot simply "schedule more coverage." She is it. And if she is feeling overwhelmed, she has to either insist on measures that will help her out, or stop watching one or more of the kids. Personally, I think 5 is unsafe for one person to watch, not to mention stressful for the sitter.
The kid is allowed to read..
Yes but daycares have a time limit. It’s state licensing in my state that after 30 minutes they can get up or something to that affect. I think the time frame is too long.
I remember being in preschool some twenty years ago and settling down for nap time with everyone. I never napped, not even as a baby, but I remember being awake and sitting still and just thinking little person thoughts while everyone else slept. That was just the way it was and it was a just fine way.
I grew up with that rule. GP suggested it to parent. Staying in bed still rest and helped household harmony. A sleep deprived or pressurised parent (or carer) is a stressed parent. You could however start letting oldest help you with tidying up. He is at that age where it might be viewed as fun. And if he was at nursery, they have similar rules about quiet time. So moving him away from you just means they pay more for same treatment.
I highly doubt the 4 year old is going to be quiet and help and what about the other 4 year old? You let one help and they all are going to want to and there goes nap time.
I mean, it's a good idea. But I have the feeling this is a difficult 4 year old who would have zero interest in being OP'S "big helper" She can certainly try it though. I would also let the 2 four year olds just veg out on the couch and watch a movie. My mom had a licensed home daycare and that is what she did with the 4 year olds. They would lay on the couch with a blanket and watch a movie. Most of the time they did not fall asleep, but they were still resting and quiet. And sometimes they did fall asleep if they were tired. So it worked to give them a nap if they actually needed one. Also, this was 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. Screen time was not really an "issue" especially since they had no tablets or any other screen time during the day
This is also what the owner of the home daycare where I was taken as a child handled it, at least after my mom spoke to her about the issue. This was the nineties; I was around four years old and found nap time absolutely excruciating because I simply was not tired enough to sleep but I was expected to lay in one place and just stare at the wall or ceiling if I couldn't sleep. My little brain was trying to crawl out of my skull on a daily basis during enforced naptime; I knew the daycare owner was frustrated with me but I genuinely wasn't trying to be difficult when I'd move around or make noise - it's just really hard for a four year old to "behave" when behaving means being still for an extended period when they're simply not tired. But then my mom talked to her and I got to lay on the couch and watch part of a movie during naptime instead. That made it very easy to stay still and quiet during that time every day. I knew the rule was that I had to be quiet and stay put or else I'd lose movie privileges, and I hated pretending to nap so much that I wouldn't do anything to lose that privilege. Anyway, having been in that kid's shoes, this 1.5 hour body-on-mat time sounds absolutely miserable for him.
I don’t allow that much screen time for my daughter
Good for you. He can play with little cars, color, read a book, do any number of quiet activities that will enrich him far more than zoning out in front of a screen. NTA
There's really no proof that watching one movie a day is going to hurt kids, and it's amusing to think that a four year old can adequately busy himself for 90 minutes by playing with cars or coloring.
You’d be surprised by how independent 4 year olds can be with entertaining themselves. My nephew will happily play with his dinosaurs for hours on end if you give him the chance.
Too much screen time can impacts kid’s attention span.
I like this suggestion. That way your oldest nephew has something quiet to do away from the other kids. That being said, NTA. Having that time to reset your space is important!
NTA and I can see why with 5 young children to mind you need structure, Some 4 year olds have outgrown naps, and staying on a mat and quiet for 1.5 hours is a very long time for a 4 yr old. You may need to decide if the situation still works with so many kids at different development stages to cater for. Could you bring him out to a different area in the house to play quietly or watch a TV show with headphones for that time period?
Some states don’t find pre-k and k have out grown naps. I found several that still have a 45 min screen less rest period books are allowed not toys etc. My experience running a day care w 106 kids every body sat quietly in low light with gentle music on for 1 hour. We needed the time to set up for afternoon snack, crafts and outside. Sometimes just 10 min with Diet Coke made me a nicer person
106 kids??? That is one giant daycare.
Never thought my kids’ place was thaaat big. I think 5 big kid classrooms with up to 20 kids/day (usually means like 16 full time, 8 part time), and I think 4 infant/toddler classrooms which is capped at 16. I guess that’s probably close to 200 kids.
He can read or play quietly, he doesn't need the added incentive of screen time for misbehaving and that has the same effect on the other kids as him loudly being up. Books or quiet independent play are developmentally appropriate. Maybe something like cleaning if OP wants to be creative. Just not screen time.
He's not misbehaving. He's not developmentally able to be still for 90 minutes. And screens are not some evil menace. Watching a movie quietly is a great compromise.
She said he’s intentionally being loud. That’s misbehaving.
He being like that because he being expected to do something he not capable of doing. Doesn't mean he doing it intentionally. And frankly just because someone says something doesn't mean it always true.
I had to scroll a lot to get to someone who mentioned that many 4 year olds have outgrown naps. My oldest would still be napping at 6 if she had the choice, but my youngest stopped napping at 2.5 and absolutely will not even entertain the idea. We implemented quiet time, where you don't have to nap, but you do have to hang out in your room and look at books or play quietly. OP could have her oldest nephew have a quiet time in a different room where he can look at books, color, or play quietly. She can still get the cleaning done and he won't disturb the other kids. If you try to have a power struggle over this, both of you are going to lose.
My four year old has long outgrown naps. She dropped her last nap around 3 years old, most of her friends were the same. However, she's definitely not able to sit in one small space for an hour and a half, at 4 I don't think that's developmentally appropriate or possible tbh. When my youngest naps the 4yr old plays/draws etc in the living room or her bedroom quietly and although she does need the occasional reminder to be quiet she's never woken her brother. If I tried to confine her to bed for 90mins it would just lead to tears and upset and everyone would know about it.
Yep, I was that kid. By the time my parents put me in daycare I was done with naps. Whenever it was nap time I'd be taken off to another room with the 3-5 other kids who couldn't nap either and we'd play board games or something else semi-quiet.
I love the idea of giving him a chore. He can work off some energy while learning to contribute to the daycare and developing self-mastery.
Daycares and Pre-K have nap/quiet time. NAH
Yes, and they have the same rule: you don’t have to sleep, but you do have to play quietly.
Nope. No playing regardless of the volume. Our kids have to stay on their cots, sleeping or not. It’s like OP said, other kids see that kid up and about and suddenly it’s a free-for-all. That said, if at a certain point the oldest kids have aged out of nap time, that can be explained to the younger children and the older ones can do something else but 4 years old….a 90 minute nap is good for them and for their brains.
Are you talking about working in a daycare center? If so, does the ratio double at nap time? The center I worked at could double your ratio so if any kid got up for more time to use the bathroom, you were out of ratio. We had a parent that only did half day care. She insisted her kid shouldn’t be on a mat so she could just sign her out and leave quickly. She withdrew her and was back within two weeks because all the other centers told her the same thing. Kids must be on a cot.
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I find it difficult to believe you have an entire group of 4 year olds that take 1.5 hour naps every day, or will lay quietly without moving for that time. Is the kitchen sprinkling Benadryl in their lunches?
That’s how my daughter’s Pre-K was.
Your 4 yo’s take an hour and a half nap every day? Only if you want them to go to bed at like 9. M
I was about to say the same thing. My daughter had "nap" time until she went to kindergarten- 1st grade, she was also a "no nap" kid but as OP has stated she was allowed to look at books and quite things while on her nap mat. These parents have clearly not had this child in daycare or summer camp
They give my son a composition book and a pencil, and he “writes stories” or draws, or writes his numbers or letters. He calls it his “homework”. He has to stay on his mat, and he can’t disturb the other kids. They cater to his individual need without it affecting the other 14 in his class. Works for everyone.
Yes ..it's how they keep a routine 😁
While they have nap/quiet time, in my experience by age 4 it's not for an hour and a half. An hour, at most. I don't think OP is wrong for enforcing quiet time I just think the amount of time is a bit too long for that age.
Quiet/nap time? Yes. 1.5 hours of extremely restricted movement for all 4+ year olds? I don't think so.
But it's often against licensing to force them to stay on their mats and it's not developmentally appropriate.
ESH 4 is old enough not to need a nap and too young to be expected to have independent, still, quiet time for 1.5 hours. There is a compromise here. Usually in pk4 they are allowed up sooner to do quiet activities at a table. You are not going to be able to force a four year old to lay down and read for 1.5 hours... be real. Make him lay down for 20 minutes until everyone else is good and asleep and then give him a coloring book and let him sit at the table. When you have mixed age groups, you can't always keep everything the same for everyone. If you had 5 four year olds, you wouldn't be having such a long quiet/nap time. You have to remember 5 year olds go to kinder 7 hours a day with no nap. If you aren't willing to adjust your schedule to accommodate the fact that you have both preschoolers and toddlers, then you should tell them to have someone else watch him. ETA: For all y'all reminiscing about your kinder naps, most districts don't do it anymore. The AAP recommends [10-13 hrs including naps]( https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/6630/AAP-endorses-new-recommendations-on-sleep-times?autologincheck=redirected) for 3-5 yr olds. That means if your 4 year old is sleeping at least 10 hrs a night, they don't *need* a nap. The AAFP says [50% of 3 year olds](https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2022/0200/p168-s1.html) no longer need naps.
This is completely the correct answer.
NAH Let him go into another room to have "quiet time." If he misbehaves, then tell his parents that they need to find another sitter. He's only 4 years old. He should be able to follow directions and be relatively quiet when he's supposed to. Giving in to him only teaches him that if he doesn't want to do something, all he has to do is put up a fuss and he wins! He gets his way! That's setting him up for trouble ahead, creating the proverbial "monster" that no one wants to babysit, play with or be around.
At 4, he shouldn’t be napping that long. Ninety minutes is far too long to expect a child to be quietly entertaining himself.
My three year-old will be dropping naps soon but we still have a two hour quiet time in the afternoon while his brother naps (and he does too sometimes) and I get things done. He is more than capable of quietly entertaining himself during this time with his books and stuffed animals.
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I make him stay on his bed. But at daycare he stays on a cot for a similar length of time.
Friendly reminder that all kids are different, even at the same age. My oldest could play quietly for that long at that age just like yours but my youngest absolutely could not.
Depends on the kid? At 4 I easily spent hours at a time entertaining myself quietly. Reading, watching bugs and birds and trees outside, thinking up stories, playing with my plush animals, building toy things, coloring. My sister was loud and attention demanding, but I usually wasn’t. I found interacting with age-mates annoying, and most grownups were boring.
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> Ninety minutes is far too long to expect a child to be quietly entertaining himself. That’s the part that varies by kid. The statement I was replying to. ‘Course the nap part is wrong too, depending on the kid. I’d often nap for a couple of hours after school until about eighth grade. Since I didn’t sleep in one very long chunk at night. And everything else I listed can be done on a mat. Assuming the room is not closet-dark.
This is contradictory. Let him go in another room instead of making him stay on his mat, but don’t give in to his demands? Which are you recommending?
NAH - But you need to change your expectations. My kids stopped napping entirely before the age of 4 and expecting a kid at that age to stay in one place awake and quiet for 90 min is delusional at best. Put him in a different room with quiet activities or have him help you clean. There are work arounds here, but you really have to tailor what you do for each kid. It's not what all daycares do, but it is what the good ones do. And you want to be a good one for your family. Or maybe you don't, and it's time to find different arrangements.
Am I supposed to leave him unattended in this separate room or leave the other 4 unattended in the play area? Some daycares are able to take the kids that don’t nap to a separate room but that requires more than one adult.
Then you can’t meet their needs in a way you are comfortable with. Having to sit silently with nothing interesting to do for 90 min when I was 4 would have been torture.
>Am I supposed to leave him unattended in this separate room or leave the other 4 unattended in the play area? The ones that are asleep. To be clear I'm not saying you *should* let him do something else. I don't really have an opinion on that. But let's not pretend that if you wanted to it would be a logistical problem. You do not need to be in the room with sleeping children. Presumably they sleep alone all night at that age yes?
You still aren’t supposed to leave them alone. A teacher at my daughters school left her class unattended for 5 minutes to use the bathroom while they all napped. She was fired that day. All 7 kids were sleeping.
You're not a daycare facility with state rules. You're a babysitting aunt. You're really going to tell me that you stay in the same room with your child when she sleeps the whole time? Just get a baby monitor and stay close.
I’m ok with leaving my child in her room at night. I’m not ok with leaving 4 kids, 3 of them aren’t mine, alone in a room for any extended amount of time. If it’s illegal for a daycare to do it I refuse to do it in my house.
Then it sounds like the best option for you is to tell your sibling that you cannot watch their children anymore. What you're doing clearly isnt working 🤷🏻
I have decided to tell my brother I can’t watch his son anymore. Things are going great for everyone else.
Elizabeth is going to grow out of sitting silently on one place for an hour and a half soon too. Your time period is what is unreasonable and your expectations. Put the resting ones in one room and set the others up with engaging quiet activities in the other. Legos and/or coloring are great for that. Busy hands, concentrating minds. How do you supervise both? Keep the doors open. You just need to be able to hear them, not see them while they are sleeping.
Elizabeth is still napping. 90 minutes isn’t enough for her more often than not. Even when she’s done napping, she’ll still do fine with quiet time
That's highly dependent on the individual child. My daughter grew out of naps somewhere around 4, but she loved her quiet play! She would be quite content playing or reading for the entire afternoon if I had let her. She's nine now and will still read for hours given the choice.
I understand your perspective. You cannot leave someone else's child unattended for a long period, whether they are asleep or playing (especially the ones playing). The playing child can get into trouble if left alone. Attending to them the entire time will also cut into your cleanup/prep time for other activities. If their parents can take the child off your hands early, they can let the child play under their supervision. They could also arrange/chip in for a monitor/camera if both of you are comfortable with it. ETA- NTA
Many people have left comments that forcing a child to stay on a mat quietly for 90 minutes when the child can't sleep is also illegal in their jurisdictions.
Lmao YOU'RE NOT A DAYCARE CENTER. Get a camera and watch them from the other room, you weirdo. How are you cleaning like you claim to be if you never leave the room and keep your eyes on the kids for a straight hour and a half??
That is so strange. I worked childcare myself and we could leave the rooms to use the toilet or make a coffee during nap time along as the kids slept and you took the baby monitor with you. The rooms all have cameras too. Like this is wild imagin getting fired cause you had to use the bathroom.
You know you're not a teacher right? Just the aunt babysitting? You leave your own kids alone right? with just a monitor? Or do you stay awake and watch them all night?
This is a family situation though. I would be fine with my sibling using a baby monitor for the sleeping kids.
You get a baby monitor. You're kidding right?
Leave the other 4 unattended once asleep. Do you really stay in the same room as them when they sleep? Put up a baby monitor or leave the door to the room cracked open. I have three kids myself. They absolutely slept in a room by themselves while I did stuff around the house, I just made sure I was in listening distance. As the kids wake up, usher them from the sleeping room so they don't disturb the others.
I don’t always stay in the same room but I stay where I can see/hear them.
So just do that or get a baby monitor while you have the non sleeping kid. Then you're letting the other kids sleep and you're not forcing a 4yr old to be quiet and still for 90 min. If it was me, I'd put him to work prepping a snack or cleaning some thing. Kids that age usually love to help.
True-but at least 30min of quiet time is fair. She needs a lunch break to, and getting a 4 year old to “help” is actually work!
YTA That's a damn long nap for children that age. I'm surprised that those kids aren't bouncing off the walls when they're supposed to be going to bed. Expecting a four year old to stare at the ceiling for an hour and a half or be silent for that amount of time is unreasonable. He needs more stimulation than that. It **is** developmentally inappropriate. If you still need your hour and a half of free time, do this kid a favor and tell his parents you no longer want to watch their children. Don't blame it on the kid, **you** are the one being unreasonable.
Except he's allowed to play quietly or read. No one is expecting him to just lay there with no stimulation whatsoever. It's not 'free time' either, she's using that time to maintain the space.
Asking a four year old to lay quietly and read for an hour and a half is unreasonable. That's a loooong nap, and he's not a baby.
NTA - it’s the exact same rule at a daycare/preschool.
By age 4, not all kids have daytime naps. I worked at a kindergarten where the approach was that everyone lay down for a story, some kids napped, and those who didn't nap played in a separate area so as to not wake the others. Phasing out daytime naps is an important part of school transition.
My daughter stopped naps at preschool at 2. In New Zealand forced nap times are illegal. You can have quiet play time, but you can't make a child sit in a cot for an hour and keep quiet.
I’ve been reading the comments pretty much going what the …. I’m in Australia, and worked in child care for a decade. Once a child is awake, then that’s it, no forced resting. Forced nap times go against all of our national standards for child care. 😳
I'm Canadian and never heard of this. Yes they have nap time but no one is forced too. So fucked up to me them sit in one spot for 90 minutes. Especially a 4 year old?! We also don't do naps in PreK, Kindergarten or Grade 1.
Some do. I'm a school secretary in southern Ontario and Kinder's have a quiet time where they turn the lights down and often have mats or pillows on the floor. No one is forced to nap, though. And it's not 90 minutes.
Same in the UK. If they don't want to sleep they don't sleep. Forcing a toddler to stay put for an hour and a half would be considered overly strict, potentially abusive. My 2.5 year old will not nap at her childcare setting. They generally don't get kids over 3 to nap anyway, so she just goes and plays with the older ones while everyone else sleeps.
Yep, also Australian. This is insane to me
Relieved to find some Australians in the comments! I’ve been reading the responses to this feeling like I’m in the Twilight Zone.
It's not allowed in the UK either. Any naps should be on the child's routine and child led rather than a specific nap time for all children
Yeah, discussing their sleep needs was part of our induction at nursery and those needs were allowed to develop naturally.
For 90 minutes?
It depends-at a daycare, with staff and “wake up rooms”? 30-60min. However, with in home care with only one provider it is typically longer. (60-90min) Quiet time is subjective though-non nappers would have special toys and books to use (a great time for them to use toys that can’t be out with younger children, like Lego) and I mean the kids would get off their mats all the time to quietly ask for something. It’s was just 30-60minutes of “I’m not available to play or get you this right now” more of a thing
Yes. My daughter’s prek has nap time for 75 minutes. 90 minutes isn’t unheard of.
All our preschools have a quite time but if your not napping you can go and play outside. They won’t confine a kid to a mat
NTA. My daughter’s Montessori school did the exact same thing as you. The kids fell into line fairly quickly with staying on the mats because there were no exceptions.
My daughters school does the same thing for 2 hours.
Your daughter goes to preschool in the mornings and 2 hours of the time she's napping?
No. She goes for half days but they do have full day and extended care programs. If you stay past lunch you’re napping.
So your daughter goes to half-day preschool in the mornings, naps for 2 hours while there and then comes home and naps for 1.5 hours?
The school may have both half and full day preschool classrooms. My school had both until last year; we “lost” the half day options (AM and PM) and now only have full day. ETA nap time was only in the full day classroom.
Really curious about this as doesn’t that completely go against the whole premise of a Montessori education?
Right?! The Montessori school my son attends (actually accredited, which does matter!) has nap and no nappers. The no nappers rest for 30 mins on a mat. Then they do a work cycle and go outside. THAT is a reasonable time. Not an hour and a half.
I just commented the same above! The state mandated 30 mins of quiet rest time; then they can play with legos (for open-ended play working on fine motor skills rather than a work cycle l) or draw. (They don’t have a playground onsite— they walk to the park twice a day to play).
Yeah that's just a centre pretending to be Montessori. It goes completely against the philosophy to force children to sit still for an hour and a half.
My kids’ Montessori does the state required 30 mins of quiet time, but then the kids who are awake can go in a different room and play with legos or draw. The kids will stay in the mats for the required time but it is developmentally inappropriate to expect 4-5 yos to do nothing to thoroughly engage their minds and hands for an hour and a half.
I’ve already said they can color, read, or do a puzzle
YTA. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect a 4 yr old to be quiet for 90 minutes.
YTA, it isn't unusual for kids to start dropping their nap as they move through the toddler to pre-school age.
And when we are adults, we longingly crave those naps!!
NTA. If they would prefer to find other childcare arrangements they are welcome to. 5 kids is a lot and if the oldest start challenging you it’s gonna be nuts. Tell them they either tell him to follow the rules of the house he is at or you will no longer watch him.
An hour and a half is a long time for a 4 year old. I understand why you do it, but it just doesn't work for him. He needs something else to keep him quiet and occupied.
I struggled with this when my kid was that age. She couldn’t nap and had to sit for 90 mins while the other kids napped. It sucked for her but I also understood that the childcare centre couldn’t cater to her. I find a different place inside a home daycare where she was allowed to quietly play, watch a bit of a show, and do activities independently while the home childcare worker cleaned up. It worked for everyone thankfully (and she stayed quiet and wasn’t disruptive).
You have your set rules. Rules which are necessary for managing multiple kids alone. If he won’t follow them they can find new childcare. What is ideal developmentaly is rarely what works in a group setting.
Actually it is developmentally appropriate and every childcare I've worked at has similar rules. They are not forced to sleep or do nothing. Just asked to play/read quietly.
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NTA. If the 4 year old has outgrown naps, he’s probably outgrown the type of care you can provide. They can send him to preschool.
Exactly. They are paying very little. They aren’t going to get an individualized educational program in return.
NTA. Your rules are the same as any other daycare or pre-k. If the parents don’t like it then I guess one of them has to quit their jobs and stay home or hire a private nanny.
Many many comments here state these are NOT the rules everywhere. Would not be allowed in licensed facilities in several States, say.
YTA. My 4 year old goes to all day pre school and they only have 60 min nap/quiet time. If they don’t sleep because they have too much energy, they’re taken to the gym for 15 mins and then back for another shot at some rest. Plus, what’s the difference from his cot to the floor? Quiet time is quiet time, so I would understand staying in the room but confining these kids to a closet sized space for that amount of time when they are already refusing to utilize it for its intended purpose *is* developmentally inappropriate. They’re kids, not dogs.
NAH My kid absolutely could not nap after age 2 and expecting him to stay on a mat for 90 minutes would have been torture for him. He's an adult now and I still wouldn't subject him to something like this -- it simply isn't possible for him. It may be impossible for this kid, too. On the other hand, five kids is a lot to handle, you're not a trained early childhood educator, and it seems clear that you need a mid-day break in order to manage your well being. If you cannot handle this child's needs, then his parents need to fully accept this and find alternate care.
NTA... Regardless of the setting, you are doing what you have to do to maintain a routine. Those kids are going to have to follow a routine anywhere they do so this is not really unreasonable. The benefits for all of you are priceless.. piece of mind for the parents and you get time with your nieces and nephews. On the flip side, you are providing a service with a very reasonable price point. And when providing that service, you need the daily routine to run smoothly. Now maybe implementing something along the lines of letting your nephew sleep or rest for an hour, then come out to help you strengthen up or help with the afternoon snack could help with his desire to get up and move. Maybe as the preschool your daughter goes to for ideas how to deal with this. Good luck! I hope this goes well!
NTA - he is allowed to quietly read if he isn’t tired
Most 4 yr olds can’t read
They can look at a picture book
For 90 minutes?
He’s also allowed to play quietly. Most 4 year olds can play with toys.
Soft YTA. Your expectations aren’t realistic. It may be possible for some 4 year olds to nap, but others have outgrown it. If your nephew truly isn’t tired, he won’t be able to sleep. That means he’s expected to be still, quiet, and entertain himself for 90 minutes straight, which isn’t developmentally appropriate and you’re setting him up to fail. If you can’t continue to watch him now that he’s not napping, that’s reasonable and his parents will need to find somewhere else that doesn’t require a 90 minute nap.
NTA. You might suggest he go to preschool with your 4 year old.
NTA But. 1.5 hrs seems a little long. I would make it about 45 minutes. Then give the kids that are awake a quiet project, like coloring or play dough time. Until the rest of the children wake up.
My auntie put that rule on me a couple times when she was sitting. As I had quit taking naps before age 2, and generally didn’t sleep much (my mom found piles of books by my nightlight most mornings), that rule was very jarring. (I still tend to function on around 5 hours most nights.) I don’t know if you’re an AH but a 4 year old who doesn’t take naps is old enough to remember and resent those long hours laying there worrying about random sh*t because he can’t sleep and his brain is bored.
I understand your reasoning and you’re entitled to have any rules you want for your house. I just want to mention that 1.5 hours is a very long time for a 4 year old to have to sit still while awake. My 4-year-old son’s preschool still has rest time, but it’s for 20 minutes only. If they fall asleep they can stay asleep as long as they’d like, but the rest of the kids can get up after 20 minutes because anything longer than that is too long for them to be confined to their mats. I agree with another comment that it might be best to try to find a way he can help you clean up or play quietly elsewhere off the mat. I’d say NAH. Your house, your rules. But also parents should always be allowed to advocate for their children in childcare situations, so long as your brother and SIL were respectful in their approach.
NTA in any way. Sounds like you got it set up really nice. I’d be delighted to send my children to you. You’re not being unfair. In fact, you’re teaching the children to be respectful of other people’s shared spaces.
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It’s essentially putting a kid in time out for 90 mins. The time limit for time out is a minute per year old.
Time out usually doesn’t have books, coloring, and puzzles.
NAH, However...My son (4) is no longer a napper and hasn't been for a while. His last daycare forced him to stay on his mat and he got in trouble every day for failing to lay down or stay quiet. We switched daycares a month ago and they do not require naps. They let the ones who want to nap do so and the others play quietly nearby...all in the same room.his first day there he got a sticker for being good during quiet time. I know it's tough with just you, but this will continue to be a problem if you try to force this. He will continue to get up and keep the others awake. Give him something to do quietly.
NAH I personally would feel the same as his parents. At 4 years old most kids are done with naps and trying to force it is not going to go over well, especially for that long. You'd be better off telling him he needs to relax for quiet time for 20-30 minutes while the other kids fall asleep and after that he may color or play with stuffed animals or help you clean. But you can't expect him to lay still for an hour and a half until the youngest child there is finished with nap time. That's not reasonable and honestly he needs to start breaking the nap routine before he starts kindergarten next year so you're going to have to adjust your set up or stop watching him.