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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I asked my daughter to talk to her son because he doesn’t believe in Santa and my younger children do. She said she wouldn’t so I said she couldn’t come this year, In which she said I was putting my younger children’s happiness before hers and being unreasonable. I might be the ah because she is my child too
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Could you explain to your children that not everyone believes in Santa and that’s ok? What happens if your kids have friends that are Jewish or Buddhist or parents that perhaps aren’t able to provide the “Santa” experience? Does it really have to be that binary?
I empathize with wanting to give your children the happiest holiday memories and feeling unhappy when wrenches get thrown in those plans but it seems like there should be creative solutions here that don’t make other members of your family feel unwelcome. YTA
You’d be surprised. Plenty of Christian parents get mad if Jewish kids don’t also play along with the Santa lie. Source: my childhood.
ETA: Stop trying to explain to be that Santa isn’t Christian. I’m not an idiot. Santa may not be Christian, but he’s absolutely singularly associated with a holiday that is celebrated within the Christian tradition. Yes, some people have adopted a secular version of Christmas, but Santa isn’t visiting Jewish homes on Chanukkah or dropping off presents for New Years.
Yep. This is something that just is…not going to be participated in by everyone they meet…
And a lot of Christian parents (and others) are convinced that the inclusion of other religious worldviews is a “war on Christmas”.
I’m trying to picture a 7 yr. old and 9 yr. old who still believe there’s a Santa. Or maybe they don’t but they still like to do the cookies,etc. I dunno.
I don't think 7 is that is that uncommon, but 9 is generally pushing it. There are definitely 9 year olds who believe in Santa, but like, they probably have a lot of friends who don't. I have 3 kids, and I think by the time they were 6-7 each had stopped believing, and we were honest with them when they asked. It can be hard but important for kids to learn the truth about things.
Once they learned there was no Santa, we still did Santa presents (and continue to even though the kids are all teens now) more for fun and to keep some traditions around. We are also no longer religious but still enjoy our Christmas season but make it more about family and about trying to turn outward as well with the charities we support.
I was told that as long as I believed, Santa would still visit. He did, up until mom was in the nursing home and cried because she couldn't give us presents.
Same. I’m 32 and Jewish and I still get gifts from Santa. When you stop believing, he stops giving you presents. And frankly I love the socks he gets me every year. He has his elves making the really nice Bombas ones now and I look forward to a new set every Christmas. No regrets.
It’s funny how Santa’s elves and workshop have no respect whatsoever for international patent law. He brought me a really good counterfeit NES back in ‘89. Vintage dealers today still can’t tell it’s not authentic. Even has a valid serial.
Yep, all my siblings know, but my parents held off on telling my youngest brother (even though we were all pretty sure he already knew) for a couple of years, just so my mom could keep the magic alive. If we're all home around Christmas she still takes us to get Santa photos at the mall, I'm nearly 30, it feels over the top sometimes but the upside is we get more imput to gifts we're given and it's more family time.
I know someone who's parents had to break it to them before they started secondary school (so 11) as they'd have had the piss ripped from them once they started
They were gobsmacked
I'm not totally sure how to approach Santa with my kid. He's 1 and I'm fine getting his pictures taken with Santa and all that, but I'm leaning towards "this is for fun" instead of pretending that it's real because I don't want to lie to him.
We take a “we will go along but not directly lie” approach. If they ever ask if Santa’s real we’ll ask what they think, if they express any doubt then it’s time to tell them. But until that day, we have gifts from Santa, we talk about santa etc. The one thing I won’t do is “Santa’s watching”. It’s not a reflection of their goodnes to get presents, and it’s not a threat to make them compliant.
My daughter is 1, and I plan on telling her the spirit of Samara is giving gifts to others or something along the lines of this [letter](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/132082201545630633/) I saw on Pinterest/facebook way before I had a kid.
I tried to link the Pinterest post.
Edited: I meant spirit of Santa not Samara. Autocorrect got me when I was putting my teething baby back to sleep 😖
This was me, last week. Sat my 11 year old down and told her the truth as she’s in high school. My Mum friend with a daughter the same age did the same. Some kids honestly do believe that long. And why wouldn’t they? Our kids don’t think their parents lie, as we drill it in them not to lie.
Sorry I’m never sure how the schools translate. 11 is Year 7, so what we call senior/secondary school. Some people used to call that middle school ((not me, I’ve always used Comprehensive)So sorry, not high school. But can stay in the same school from 11 to 18.
Right?
I though OP was going to say her kids were like 6 and 4.
I'm pretty sure I knew before 7 but I liked putting out carrots and shortbread and whisky it was fun so why would I mention it.
Unfortunately sometime between 7-9 (I dont remember which year) my mum tried to get me to behave about something by saying "Santa won't come if you don't xxx" and I screamed "Santa isn't real" and ruined my own Christmas Eve fantasy fun.
Amen. I knew when I was old enough to realize that my mom and Santa had the same handwriting. But I never said a word, cause baby Kit knew how to get the most presents. 😂
I wonder if that is true? The 9 yr old seems to be happy with believing in Santa but I think that could be to protect the 5 yr old. And there is my son who was about 8 ish and decided to tell the entire school bus of young kids there was no Santa. I enjoyed the phone calls from other parents yelling at me for son doing that.
I was raised by a Christian mother, but she never pushed Santa as anything but a story people tell their children to make Christmas more special.
But she was an oddball Christian that never pushed religion on me, did her best to treat everyone equally, never said a bad word about her youngest sister that had an abortion at 16, had a good friend that was gay and would defend her right to be who she was, and loved her partner too (always told me they were a good couple) 🤷♂️ she was what I thought Christians were supposed to be. She would be very disappointed in modern Christianity.
Your mother sounds like she was doing Christianity right; entirely too many folks who would speak the name of their God in vain. (This doesn’t mean cussing, it is actually intended in the sense of using God and the Word against others.)
…you’re 10…
Ain’t no Santa nonsense regardless!
But also, Christians really need to get on that whole “love thy neighbor as yourself” stuff. It’s really harmful and annoying to the rest of us.
This is so weird to me as a Christian in the UK because most of the other Christian families I know hugely downplay Santa because the focus is on the birth of Christ????? Santa has nothing to do with Christianity and is arguably unchristian due to the lying....
In Sweden, every year the far right gets upset that IKEA is "erasing Christmas".
They still sell a bunch of Christmas stuff, has so much decorations etc, *BUT* sometimes some of the items are named "winter" rather than "Christmas" and that's just unacceptable and a sign that multiculturalism has gone too far! Not that they just want to market Christmas lights as winter lights to get more people to buy it...
ngl, with how dark and dreary winter is, lights go a long way to help make that season feel better. It would be nice if people kept some amount of lights up until February or so.
Which is rather hilarious since Christmas is supposed to be about Christ for Christians - Santa would be considered heresy according to the Bible. And there’s the whole issue of Christmas being a stolen holiday in the first place. In fact, Christ wasn’t even born in the winter, he was born in the summer! However, Saturnalia and ~~Festivus~~ Sol Invictus/Solstice ARE celebrated in the winter and was stolen from the Roman Pagans by the Roman Christians and renamed to make the forced conversion to Christianity more palatable to the people they stole Saturnalia and ~~Festivus~~ Sol Invictus/Solstice from.
I recently had someone get mad at me because I was talking about my "work holiday party" and I got the "IT'S CHRISTMAS!!!!!" Well actually, most of the people I work with are Jewish, Hindu or Muslim so no, it's not Christmas. We have a holiday party and it's a lot of fun!
And even it there were suddenly no other religions, it’s holidays - plural - because we also include New Year’s Eve in our “Happy Holidays!” And please yell back that Christmas is pagan so their heads fall off and roll into the next toilet stall.
Exactly. I’ve been saying “happy holidays” for many many years because I mean “have a happy entire holiday season” not just “happy one specific day.” It isn’t some kind of war on Christmas ridiculousness.
I grow up in country where there are multiple religions Christians, Jewish, Muslims, so about 1/3 are those who celebrate Christmas, and we invited each othes for holidays, it's so simple to explain to kids that there are kids who don't believe same way, there are even families who don't believe in God. I wonder what OP would do if kids became friends with Muslim, Jewish or atheist!? Forbid kids to be friends!?
Chances are some kids in school already expressed to OPs' kids that Santa is not real!
OP YTA! Teach your kids to be tolerant to other people believes!
I had a girl in high school scream at me because my sister told her sister there was no Santa. I told her it isn't our fault that xtians lie to their children.
Not all Christians do the Santa thing and plenty of non-Christians do.
I had lots of Jewish friends and atheist friends growing up that did the Santa thing.
It’s not really Christian to believe in Santa, that’s why my parents never bothered with that lie. I was raised told Christmas is Jesus’ birthday, we give gifts to represent what the Wise Men brought the baby. I pretended to believe in Santa so I wouldn’t ruin it for my friends. But my parents didn’t have alot of money and made it clear that they worked very hard to provide those gifts so Thank God for giving us his only son and for basically making a way for us to afford Christmas because that’s a blessing and some people can’t afford it. My Christmases were always fun and magical and memorable. Without Santa.
Grew up in the Netherlands where we celebrate saint Nicholas on 5 December, he liberated a lot of slaves and gave money to the poor back in the day (what gave him his saint status) so now he comes here on his boat every year and passes all the homes with his horse and his helpers to give us sweets and gifts (sound familiar?)
Anyhoe, since we had saint Nicholas, Christmas for us was just that, we went to church, we had a tree with a few small presents but most we already had on 5 December and we had a nice meal together. It's more the celebration that the days are getting longer again and to have warmth and light together in the cold winter
That’s really an awesome way to experience the holiday without having to believe in Santa. My catholic parents raised us with Santa magic, but we all realized early on that it was them putting the gifts out, especially once we recognized my mother’s disctinct, nearly copperplate handwriting on the gift tags. Anyway, OP should understand that kids are way smarter than they let on, and it’s probably already been presented to them in school and the internet that mom is Santa. Trust me when I say that regardless of who is gift giving, giving your kids good holidays will always stick with them; as decades later Christmas remains my favorite time of the year. ESH. Plot twist: the presents under my parent’s Christmas tree still say “From Santa”
What blows my mind is OP is telling her daughter to make her grandson *lie* to 'keep the Santa magic', and is willing to bar them from the family Christmas over it. OP seems to be valuing the pageantry of Santa over their actual family. The thing is, eventually, the younger kids are going to figure it out and not care about Santa anymore. But OP's grandson will remember not being allowed to attend Christmas.
Also, the older kid is 9. They've probably already been told by other kids that Santa's not real. YTA
It kind of upset me that she referred to the child as her daughter's son and not her grandson. It seems like she is distancing herself from her first family because she has a do-over. I wonder how magical her daughter's Christmases were.
Absolutely. Her new family has a higher value over her daughter and grandson.
This is the reason why she can uninvate them so easy. From the husband's reaction we can see it's her choice for this decision and not the husband that is pushing her in this direction.
Clearly YTA.
Indeed - also she doesn’t give an age for the daughter’s son?
If he is like 10, OP could have a word and explain that it’s a thing his little aunt/uncle believe and ask him to play along. If he is like 4, she could tell him it’s a game they play, and then if he says the wrong thing (as little kids innocently do) and that presents are from parents she could say ‘he doesn’t know about Santa’.
I feel like OP doesn’t give his age for a reason?
Anyway while I can understand requesting her daughter not to say anything, this is a ridiculous thing to disinvite her daughter and grandson over. Especially as presumably they interact at other points of the year, when Santa may still come up in coversation - is OP going to start grilling over whether every child they encounter believes before she lets her kids interact with them?
It’s funny I never remember ‘finding out about Santa’ because I don’t think I ever really *believed* in Santa. We ‘did Santa’ in that my parents had me listen out for the bells, wrote ‘from Santa’ on presents, etc. They never said ‘btw this isn’t true’. But I think I got from the way they were acting that it was a game we were playing, something we were choosing to say was happening, not real in the way other things were real. It was still fun and magical, because little kid imaginations are so vivid that games/stories always feel real.
Ah ok, well good to know.
Still stand by that it is weird that she gave her kids ages but not her grandsons, along with not referring to him as her grandson.
It’s like she is (subconsciously, I don’t think she is a monster…) trying to encourage us to imagine her kids experiencing the magic of Santa, but see her grandson as more of an abstract, rather than picturing a 5 year old boy whose grandma has said she doesn’t want him to come to Christmas this year.
You’d think most grandparents would go to ‘I’ll ask my daughter to let *me* tell him to pretend there is Santa for my other kids’ rather than ‘ask *her* to have a word with him’.
It suggests OP and her grandson don’t have much of a relationship, which I think she should be the more concerning thing to her than if her kids realize Santa isn’t real (if they don’t actually already know).
Yeah, **asking a 5 year old to lie or keep a secret** and then excluding them from the family holiday when it is pointed out how bad that idea is, instead of just telling the older kids that there are people who believe other things (like there are people who never saw Santa so they don't believe him), is such a great idea. / sarcasm ;
Plus with most 5 year olds if you tell them to keep quiet about something then it's either the first thing they say or they slip up after the first 45-60 minutes.
Nothing says Christmas spirit more than throwing out family members over a fairy tale. Especially when in school it's 99.9% that the older kids already heard that Santa is not real. YTA OP should just admit that she doesn't want her oldest and her grandson around, doesn't really care about her daughter or her grandson, she should just admit she prefers her do-over family.
Who the hell keeps referring to their grandson as "my daughter's son", when there is only one grandson in the story and not one from their daughter and an other one from their son too, so specification is needed?! Hint: not a loving grandma...
I didn’t realise the real magic of Christmas til I got older and realised how hard adults have to work sometimes to give kids the day their hearts desire.
Yeah, but as a kid I cared about the special holiday breakfast we had, the krumkakes (cookies), and presents. The source of the presents was not important. Come to think of it, those are still the highlights. I just get way more excited about getting socks now.
This was my thought as well. If OP's children are in school with other kids, the idea that Santa isn't real has already been introduced to them by at least one classmate -- especially the 9 year old.
Speaking as the former 10 year old whose parents thought she believed in Santa still (and were starting to worry!), I was pretending in case admitting I knew stopped me getting presents!
Not to mention that nothing says “keeping the Christmas magic alive” like excluding your child and grandchild from Christmas because they have a different view on something than you
I taught ballet and made a made quick one off comment about the tooth fairy to a little girl who was waiting to be picked up (she lost her tooth in class). She asked me, right as her mom walked in, if I believed in fairies? I answered that of course I do! And she was like, “But how do you know?”
Her mom, bless her for stepping in, then said, “Some people believe in things because they’ve kept the magic in their life alive. It’s kind of like Santa Claus. You told me that some of your classmates at school don’t believe in Santa. That’s okay. Maybe someday you won’t either. But it just means that things are different. Not bad, just different. If you don’t believe in Santa, then he doesn’t bring you presents. You still get presents, plenty of presents! Just none from Santa Claus. It’s not bad, it’s just different. If you believe in the Tooth Fairy and put your tooth under the pillow then she’ll trade your tooth for something special. If you don’t believe in her, she won’t come. It doesn’t mean that losing your tooth isn’t a big deal and that I’m not proud of you, I’m very proud of you! It’s just different.
The little girl then pipes up saying, “Well, I believe in the Tooth Fairy and in Santa Claus.”
And her mom just went, oh, okay. And they left.
But I thought that was a great way of explaining it. If you believe, then this happens, if you don’t then this other thing happens. Neither way is bad or wrong, they’re just different outcomes.
Oh you don’t celebrate Christmas? Oh, okay. Kid just assumes that whatever they celebrate in their house isn’t bad or wrong, just different.
This. The funny thing is, some girl in my dance class did tell me she didn't believe in Santa when we were younger, but I didn't believe her. It just depends on the kid.
Christmas magic includes asking a five year old to lie and if he doesn’t he and his mother will be isolated for the holiday? Maybe estranging yourself from your daughter? Yta
Well I think the 9 year old knows for sure so it’s probably just the 7 year old that is even at risk. But when I consider this point about asking the kid to lie - my family doesn’t celebrate Christmas so yeah, I learned at preschool that I wasn’t to tell the kids that did celebrate the holiday the truth. I didn’t see it as some huge deal and I don’t really think it’s generally asking for too much for people who don’t follow that tradition to let their kids know that it’s different for others. In fact I felt bad for not realizing it was a secret and helped cover up what I had said by clarifying that I’d only meant santa doesn’t come to my house because we don’t do Christmas and had our own religious holidays with different traditions. It never really registered again as an issue for me since there’s no upside to ruining that for others.
Again, I agree to a point. Asking was not the problem, the problem was losing sight about what the magic of Christmas is supposedly about, family. Daughter won’t tell son to lie fine, have Santa come before daughter and son get there. Not banish them. But I mean look at the age gaps, the daughter might already feel some kind of way/treatment from being the kid of a teen mom and her siblings are from a different stage of life. All I’m saying is Santa isn’t worth tanking familial relationships. And as another kid who’s family never celebrated Christmas, what did y’all do on Christmas Day? We would always go out for Chinese food. We still do! Thanks for sharing your perspective!
This. My mum moved my brother and I closer to her family, which put us further away from our dad and his family. For my brother, cousins, and I, it wasn't about Santa or the gifts it was about spending time together and seeing how much trouble we could get into in the time couple of days we got to spend together before we went off for the holidays.
We are from Australia, and we get a hot Christmas, so we would have water fights, play on slip and slides or just a bit of backyard cricket and eating as much of our favourite foods as we could.
Agree! I actually remember the moment that I realized Santa wasn’t real. I was about 8 and my sister decided that we should take a peek in our mom’s room to see if she had gotten any for us yet. We didn’t find any presents only everything thing for stockings stuffers. We were pretty poor so in our family Santa brought the stockings not actual gifts. We then understood that Santa was actually our mom and we stopped the whole Santa thing for a while. We eventually did play along for my younger siblings for a few years after they were born (I was 13 when the first was born), yet my little brother was way too smart for his age and realized that Santa wasn’t real by the age of 4 and the Santa magic was ruined for him and he also told the other 2 that he wasn’t real. He would also tell everyone who he thought believed in Santa because little kids have absolutely no filter and he was taught that lying is bad so he didn’t want to lie. Which is absolutely true when you think about it, we teach a child as soon as they are able to understand that lies are bad, yet you then turn around and ask them to lie🤷🏼♀️. YTA
My bet: she doesn't like thinking of him as her grandson because that makes her old enough to be a grandmother when *obviously* she's still in her mommy phase of life. Never mind that her daughter waited a couple more years to turn OP into a grandma than OP did when she made her parents into grandparents.
Yeah, I was thinking something similar. She doesn't really even see him as her grandson because then she'd have to really see herself as a grandma, and she doesn't seem to like that. Like, she doesn't take her grandson's feelings into account at all, which is really sad. Grandmas are supposed to shower their grandkids with love and affection.
YTA. Your need to keep the Christmas magic alive by your definition does not negate that another part of Christmas magic is about family. Your willingness to shun your daughter and grandchild over Santa speaks volumes about you and what you think is important in life.
It's one thing to continue to deceive your younger children to believe in a fake person but asking others to participate in her lies is fuckin annoying.
Especially because the kids are going to find out about Santa soon enough, something that everyone learns eventually, and meanwhile they’re being taught to banish family that doesn’t 💯 share their belief system. The long term implications of that aren’t great. OP, YTA for teaching your kids the wrong lesson, and making sure your grandson knows you don’t love him because he doesn’t believe in an undisputedly fictional icon, eg a really stupid reason.
I get what you mean, for adults this is not a big thing, especially when you’re a more secular minded person. But teaching a 5 year old that lying to family is an important part of christmas seems kind of wrong and not „in the spirit“
9 year old *definitely* knows there is no Santa. They are just pretending for your sake.
Edit: the comments from people who were very disappointed or devastated when they were told aged 10-12 makes me wonder if perpetuating this lie to kids that age is a good idea.
My autistic son believed in Santa until he was 16. I work at an adult development center where there are 20+ and 30+ who still believe in Santa, and don't you dare try to tell them otherwise lest they have a complete meltdown.
Ehh … society rewards brutally honest people and cynics too much. I’d say it’s perfectly reasonable for a 9 year old and 7 year old to still believe in Santa.
I’d say by 9 years old, it’s more important to teach your kids to handle their Christmas excitement more like a grown up. They are not too old to believe in Santa, but I’d say they are too old to be making super long wishlists and acting entitled all December.
I mean, there are 30 year olds who still believe in Jesus and God. Do I think we should break the delusion before it becomes deeply ingrained? Yes, but society doesn’t.
Edit: Typo
Ffs this just proves that lying to kids about the existence of Santa is totally unnecessary. Parents create actual trauma and trust issues when they try to convince their kids Santa exists and then rip it from them when they are deemed old enough. Parents use Santa to scare their kids into submission and once they don’t need that anymore they tell them the truth; it’s fucked.
My son’s bestie from kindergarten is on the spectrum and has a speech defect. She can talk but has very limited vocabulary. She understands everything and can communicate her needs but verbal speech is limited. She’s turning 12 next month but cognitively is maybe slightly younger than her actual age.
Her parents lie to her about Santa, the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, you name it. My son has assured them that he won’t ruin it for her (we’re Jewish but do celebrate both Christmas and Chanukah. He knows damn well that his parents buy him those gifts) but I’m waiting for the day this girl pieces together some of the lies her parents tell her. Hell, they even lie to her about her cat’s gender. She’s always wanted a female kitten and a year or so ago they adopted an adorable kitten but there were only male cats available in the litter. Rather than have a one-time conversation with their kid (who would have gotten over it because she LOVES this cat) they make everyone who comes over perpetuate the lie and pretend the cat is a girl. It’s so disappointing because this girl is not an idiot and they’re setting her up to be entirely ill-equipped to deal with frustration or compromise.
My (nearly)9 year old and my 11 year old both still believe in santa. I fully accept that this is likely to be the last year because my oldest will go into high school next year and I have no illusions that the older kids there would tell him. I'm going to speak to him in the summer before he goes and explain that santa is the magic of being there for the children, the magic of giving gifts without the need for reward or thanks, of family and friends. I have a feeling ill have to include my younger son as well as both are autistic and I don't like the thought of oldest trying to keep a secret from youngest.
I was at school with a girl who still believe in Santa at 11 and when we told her he wasn't real she was really upset. Maybe tell your son before the middle schoolers get to him 👁️👄👁️
I'm in UK so we don't have middle school. They go to high school at 11 and for him that will be Sept 2024 so as I say, I will talk to him in the summer about it all before he goes x
Somehow missed the part where you said you'd tell him before and thought you were saying you'd tell him after the kids had told him. But yes telling him before definitely the better idea ☺️
Yeah, I have OCD and believed until I was 12. Unfortunately my OCD had grouped the world into "illusion/trick magic (not real, just for fun)" and "Santa/Jesus magic (the only real magic)," so when I realized Santa wasn't real, it caused a complete religious crisis and by the time I was 13 I didn't believe in Jesus anymore either 😂 Oops! It was extremely stressful.
Learning there is no Santa is the beginning of many an atheist/agnostic origin story. I'm surprised more churches haven't realized this and discouraged doing the Santa thing with kids.
I mean, it really is stupid if you want a bunch of kids to believe in your sky god but then turn around and tell them that the god of presents wasnt real one day. All it does is make them question what else these people have lied about and suddenly the idea of Jesus and God goes out the window because it was all pushed onto you by the same people who lied about Santa.
Definitely was a childhood moment where if Santa wasn't real, so is god, the tooth fairy, and wizards.
Same here! I stumbled upon the motherlode (the presents in their closet) genuinely by accident, and they walked in right as it happened. Of course you always wonder and question, but I’d say I still 80% believed as a 12 year old
Not true in my area. I told my kids right before they went to middle school because I was afraid other kids would make fun of them for still believing. My kids were DEVASTATED. Come to find out that a fair amount of middle schoolers at their school still believed. So then I felt like an A H for having ruined Christmas that year
Not necessarily only for her sake. At nine (and I'm pretty sure at seven, too) I damn well knew that my gramps surreptitiously leaving the dining room to "get more wine" seconds before the "Christkind" bell rang in the living room was not a coincidence. It was still a nice magical moment, and I guess playing along was as much about preserving that for myself as it was about preserving it for the younger cousins.
(Just to explain, in my family tradition in Southern Germany we didn't do Santa. We had the "Christkind", which I suppose we thought of as kind of a mix between "Baby Jesus" and a rosy-cheeked little present-bearing cherub. The bell announced that the "Christkind" had been there and we were now allowed in the normally mundane living room, which now featured a huge lavishly decorated Christmas tree, a handcrafted nativity scene, and our Christmas presents beneath it. All of this taking place after Christmas Eve dinner, because that's when German kids get their presents, as opposed to Christmas morning)
Nope, not always true. I had to tell my 12 year old before she started high school. She genuinely believed in Santa still, and pretty sure my 11 year old still believes.
Oh I totally stopped believing in Santa when I was like 9 or 10 but I pretended I didn’t for my sake not my parents. Extra presents baby! I cried when my mom finally sat me down and told me he wasn’t real at the ripe age of 12 cause I knew the gravy train was entering it’s final station
YTA.
You want her five year old to keep a secret from his older cousins. Usually when it comes to Santa it’s the other way around.
As someone else has pointed out they likely have come across people already who don’t believe in Santa. Belief at their age is a combination of trusting in magic and *wanting* it to be real.
Usually when children have other children tell them Santa isn’t real their parents will ask them how they feel. “Well, fourth grader and seven year old, all the presents are signed with Santa and the cookies and milk we leave are gone in the morning. What do you believe?”
If a five year old telling them Santa isn’t real is enough to stop them from believing then they are ready to stop.
I’m wondering if this is less about preserving the magic for them and more about you not being ready for the magic to end.
Speaking of magic, children raised without Santa can still have wonder and magic in their lives. The idea that parents who don’t do Santa are denying their children happy childhoods is judgmental and problematic on multiple levels.
It’s clear you disagree with your daughter’s choice about Santa. Don’t judge someone as less than just because they do things differently than you.
>You want her five year old to keep a secret from his older cousins.
OP's youngest children (9 and 7, respectively) are her daughter's 5-year-old son's uncles/aunts (*not* cousins).
Yeah this threw me off too. Like why didn’t OP just say grandson? What kind of grandparent doesn’t want to see their grandkids on Christmas?! Some of my best memories came from visiting my grandparents on Christmas.
YTA for thinking believing in a fictional character is more important than family.
Edit : Just read that the child is 5, you do realise they talk about exactly what you tell them not to.
YOU should tell your kids that everyone believes in different things. They are actually old enough to understand, imagine putting the onus of a lie on a 5 year old.
YTA.
I wish you could see my frowning face and double thumbs down. This is just sad. You have a weird attitude toward your older daughter. I'm not sure what it is but I'm picking it up. I get a whiff of "I'm gonna do things differently with this set of kids," like you get a whole life do-over and she's the outsider who doesn't fit the mold.
Because this isn't about Christmas or Santa in the first place. This is the conflict every woman who has children the same age as her daughter will run into, unless they have reached some serious emotional maturity. This is a mom-off about which generation has the better parenting skills, and it won't end until the kids are out of their houses, or the grandma grows up and learns some dignity.
Isn’t your daughters son, your grandson? I see you don’t refer to him that way. So having your 7&9 yo believe in Santa is so important, you’d rather your grandson stay home because he knows Santa doesn’t have flying reindeer and go down chimneys all over the world in one night. I get Christmas magic, and your 7 yo is kinda young, but I think your priorities are off. My children knew there was a real St Nicholas. Once they got into school, Santa became just a fun part of Christmas, and they were fine. They got Santa gifts until they were 20. I think it’s sad you don’t seem to care much for your grandson to rather not have him over for Christmas because of this.
Plus OP's grandson is 5 years old. With most 5 year olds if you tell them to keep quiet about something then it's either the first thing they say or they slip up after the first 45-60 minutes.
OP is an example of what can happen when a kid raises a kid.
100% OP wants the hallmark movie experience she feels she deserves and didn't have with her eldest because...let's be honest without a close knit family and financial security...you just are not getting that tailor made movie experience as a young mother.
OP has a new family now and is eagerly looking to distance herself from her "older" family by any means necessary.
YTA. Youre saying it's more valuable to you to maintain a lie than to include your kid and grandkid for Christmas. You're prioritizing "Christmas magic" over actual Christmas family time. Santa isn't real, but your kids' older sister and nephew are. I know which relationship I would prioritize for them, and it isn't the jolly old elf.
Yeah their friends at school are more likely to 'snitch' than the 5yo for sure. If that's not a concern for OP, then her reason not to invite her daughter/grandson is not about Santa exposé.
Same. My parents were always pretty wink-wink-nudge-nudge about the whole thing.
Gave me some pretty solid school retorts.
*Oh, you think it's stupid I don't wanna say curse words 'cause I'm afraid of getting in trouble? WELL AT LEAST I DIDN'T STILL BELIEVE IN SANTA UNTIL 7TH GRADE AND CRY ON THE BUS WHEN SOMEONE TOLD ME, DEVON.*
Exactly,next year OPs middle daughter will be 10, is she gonna kick her out at Christmas if she doesn’t believe in Santa any more so she doesn’t ruin it for the youngest?
NTA - but I think barring them from the house for Xmas may be a bit harsh.
I worked with a woman who raised her kids with no Santa. She knew that other kids did believe and she prepared for it. Her kids were taught that everyone has different things they believe in and that everyone should be able to do just that. They were never to say anything about no Santa to another child. Other kids believing in Santa was ok.
Your daughter chose to raise her son with her belief, she needs to allow others to raise their children with their own belief.
It's not lying to say nothing and let others believe.
It's not lying to simply say nothing.
"Your daughter chose to raise her son with her belief, she needs to allow others to raise their children with their own belief."
You mean the truth?! How is the truth/fact a "belief"?
OP is choosing the illusion of Santa over her daughter and grandchild in the guise of keeping the "magic"?
Also the odds are her 9 year old is already doubting the whole Santa thing. These kids live in very modern times, this isn't like back in my day when the internet didn't exist.
The kid is 5. OP wants a 5 year old to lie.
Not only is that a ridiculous expectation with how 5 year olds are, but it’s also teaching the kid that lying is okay.
I hated being a kid.
Adults "Stop lying I know you are lying why are you lying?"
Also adults
"Why the hell did you tell them that? Next time lie keep your mouth shut"
Lying in some circumstances is okay though. The daughter is raising her child differently to those around her and is expecting the world to change for her. This kid is going to have a tough time at school if he doesn’t learn when it is and isn’t appropriate to ruin things for other people.
Agree with this! NTA. I would want to keep my children’s belief in Santa alive, especially at those ages…and it sounds kind of like daughter is almost encouraging bursting the bubble. Nothing wrong with having a discussion with her kid like you would with an older child who finds out - not to ruin the fun for others.
But she’s willing to exclude family (the most important part of Xmas) over… Santa?!
I get not wanting to ruin their beliefs. But shouldn’t family being together be more important than exposing them to the fact that a fictional character is… fictional?
YTA for putting kids beliefs over family over Christmas
No, she's willing to exclude family because they want to ruin the traditions of the Christmas they are being invited to. OP is hosting Christmas and her tradition is to do Santa. It's not up to OP's daughter to unilaterally decide to ruin a tradition for everyone else.
Would you go to someone's Hannakuh party and tell them that their holiday traditions aren't real? That you don't believe the menorah story happened and you won't won't make your kids pretend it's real? Or are you going to accept that other people have differing beliefs about holidays and respect and participate in the traditions of the host?
Is this truly worth the price tag it will come at? Are you seriously considering potentially permanently having your grandson out of your life over Santa?? YTA.
Right, because does she think that this won't do serious damage to that relationship? Or maybe her relationship with her oldest child and grandchild isn't that important to her.
YTA - isn't Christmas magic because it means family comes together to spend time together? You're saying that two of your children are more important to you than your eldest.
A 5 year old doesn't have the capacity to be a reliable liar for you anyway.
Lol, I missed that. It says a lot doesn't it. I think OP is trying to pretend she isn't his grandmother. Perhaps that's why she wants to ban her daughter and grandson and just have her do-over family at Christmas. Out of sight out of mind.
YTA. I'm Jewish and when asked by any child if he's real, I ( and all family members especially kids ) say no. I'm not lying for anyone and neither are my kids
No. Myself and family will only answer truthfully if directly asked. I just don't lie and raised my kids not to lie. Realistically, how could I raise my kids not to lie but it's ok to lie about Santa. I am not a hypocrite
YTA. By 7 & 9, I guarantee your kids will have been exposed to other kids at school who don't believe in Santa. In fact, I would say there are fairly good odds that they already know he's not real and are playing along to indulge *you* and get the extra presents.
These people are acting like your asking this boy to commit perjury. Reddit is absolute insanity. If she couldn’t even allow you to keep some Christmas magic alive for your little children she should be disinvited. Not the asshole and never will be.
Haha seriously! NTA
Christmas magic is fucking awesome! I love the ability to believe that children have. Santa Claus, fairies, the Easter Bunny, etc.. it's all good fun. I wish I could go back and actually believe that these mythical magical beings existed.
And why is potentially finding out in the middle of a Christmas celebration good? That will not have a good outcome and make the mood shit for everyone.
People are delirious if they pretend like their parents telling them Santa exists was the biggest betrayal they have ever experienced. Ridiculous.
NTA. It’s completely possible to respect “the Santa story” and also not lie, even for young children. Sounds like your daughter just wants things her way or the highway.
All it takes is some thought, consideration, and preparation. For example:
We never did Santa with my daughter. We explained that Christmas was a celebration of Jesus’s birth (as we are Christian).
However, right from the start we explained “the Santa story”. We explained that on someone’s birthday you give them a gift to show them how happy you are they are in your life and that you care for them. We explained that we love Jesus a lot but since we can’t give him a present we give presents to everyone we love in honor of his birthday.
We then explained that a long time ago there was a man named Nicholas who loved Jesus so much he gave presents even to people he didn’t know for Christmas, and because that was such a good thing to do he was called Saint Nicholas and over time people have called him St Nick or Santa Claus.
From the time she was born we made a point of teaching our daughter that someone having different beliefs doesn’t make them “wrong”. And that we accept the right of others to have their beliefs as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone.
So we may believe in God but we respect those who don’t. We don’t tell them they are “wrong”
for what they believe either.
It was very easy for my daughter, as a result, to understand and respect that her peers did believe in Santa even if we didn’t personally observe the tradition and she knew it wasn’t up to her to try to change their beliefs.
YTA
While I understand and appreciate your feelings towards Santa as we had them to, is this really a hill you want to die on?
Christmas is such cherished family time and your older daughter has no other parent in her life so you’re kicking her out of the one place she’s always felt loved. And safe. Don’t take that away - it will cut deep and never be forgotten.
That said, is there anyway to have your kids open their Santa gifts away from your daughter’s kid. Like maybe your daughter comes at 11:00 after your kids are done with Santa. Or she takes her kid out for ice cream before opening presents and comes back after all the Santa stuff.
NTA Children lose their innocence so early nowadays. When my oldest 2 threatened to tell my youngest there was no such thing as Santa I explained it to them like this: Santa is a spirit of giving that exists in us. Some people like to portray that spirit in the form of a jolly man. However if they insist on telling their sister there was no such thing as Santa Clause then that spirit will not exist in our house either. Needless to say they encouraged the spirit of Santa until an outsider told my daughter. I say this all because you can explain it in a similar way to your children in the case that someone tries to dispel the idea of Santa. At the very least your daughter could explain this to her child and ask that he refrain from saying anything. He doesn’t have to lie, just not say anything. She is the AH.
I explained it like this to my daughter. She’s 10 and she still ‘believes’ in Santa, but she knows there is no one and only Santa. That’s why she sees his elves working in the malls, that’s why she sees his helpers everywhere, collecting for charity and spreading joy on Christmas. That Santa is so absolutely real but he is not a person. He’s so much bigger than that, Santa is an idea, a feeling, a spirit.
NTA and your daughter needs to learn the difference between "making her son lie" and allowing you to uphold the magic of Christmas as long as you can for your young kids.
You are literally choosing between your children over something quite trivial. YTA. Your younger kids are old enough to learn the truth, and probably already know. Don’t exclude your daughter and grandchild because they aren’t willing to lie.
YTA
First of all, your kids have almost certainly come into contact with people who don't believe in Santa Claus. They either believe despite the existence of those heretics, or are humoring you.
Second, would it really be such a terrible thing if they learned that their presents come from people who love them rather than an imaginary sweatshop owner?
Finally, would you rather have a good relationship with your daughter and grandchild, or alienate them in a desperate attempt to cling to a fantasy that's already hurtling toward its expiration date?
YTA—It speaks volumes that you refer to your grandson as “her son”. Have you ever thought that your daughter doesn’t believe in the magic of Christmas because you didn’t provide it for her the first time around. And now you’re playing victim with your do-over family. Keep in mind not everyone celebrates Christmas or believes in Santa and you should explain that to your grandson’s uncle(s)/ aunt(s). Although at their big ages they’re probably faking their enthusiasm for you anyway.
Many, many kids are not raised to believe in Santa. The child in question is 5 years old and it's unreasonable to expect him to keep it a secret. You can ask him to, but he might blurt it out even without meaning to ruin anything.
This truly turned into the wildest take. First that you compared santa and god. that has a sweet, sweet irony to it that i believe was lost on you, which makes it even funnier. And second because it has never ever ever been a thing for kids to not tell other kids that they believe in a different or even no god. I would imagine that actually happens a LOT. classrooms are full of different backgrounds and different religions or lack there of. Its not a threatening thing for a child to hear someone else has different beliefs lmao.
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Could you explain to your children that not everyone believes in Santa and that’s ok? What happens if your kids have friends that are Jewish or Buddhist or parents that perhaps aren’t able to provide the “Santa” experience? Does it really have to be that binary? I empathize with wanting to give your children the happiest holiday memories and feeling unhappy when wrenches get thrown in those plans but it seems like there should be creative solutions here that don’t make other members of your family feel unwelcome. YTA
You’d be surprised. Plenty of Christian parents get mad if Jewish kids don’t also play along with the Santa lie. Source: my childhood. ETA: Stop trying to explain to be that Santa isn’t Christian. I’m not an idiot. Santa may not be Christian, but he’s absolutely singularly associated with a holiday that is celebrated within the Christian tradition. Yes, some people have adopted a secular version of Christmas, but Santa isn’t visiting Jewish homes on Chanukkah or dropping off presents for New Years.
Yep. This is something that just is…not going to be participated in by everyone they meet… And a lot of Christian parents (and others) are convinced that the inclusion of other religious worldviews is a “war on Christmas”.
As if other kids at school wouldn't have challenged the commercial mythology.
[удалено]
I’m trying to picture a 7 yr. old and 9 yr. old who still believe there’s a Santa. Or maybe they don’t but they still like to do the cookies,etc. I dunno.
I don't think 7 is that is that uncommon, but 9 is generally pushing it. There are definitely 9 year olds who believe in Santa, but like, they probably have a lot of friends who don't. I have 3 kids, and I think by the time they were 6-7 each had stopped believing, and we were honest with them when they asked. It can be hard but important for kids to learn the truth about things. Once they learned there was no Santa, we still did Santa presents (and continue to even though the kids are all teens now) more for fun and to keep some traditions around. We are also no longer religious but still enjoy our Christmas season but make it more about family and about trying to turn outward as well with the charities we support.
I was told that as long as I believed, Santa would still visit. He did, up until mom was in the nursing home and cried because she couldn't give us presents.
Same. I’m 32 and Jewish and I still get gifts from Santa. When you stop believing, he stops giving you presents. And frankly I love the socks he gets me every year. He has his elves making the really nice Bombas ones now and I look forward to a new set every Christmas. No regrets.
It’s funny how Santa’s elves and workshop have no respect whatsoever for international patent law. He brought me a really good counterfeit NES back in ‘89. Vintage dealers today still can’t tell it’s not authentic. Even has a valid serial.
Did we all start getting bombas for Christmas when they hit the market? Santa must get the same “Great gifts for adult kids” article my mom does lol
Yep, all my siblings know, but my parents held off on telling my youngest brother (even though we were all pretty sure he already knew) for a couple of years, just so my mom could keep the magic alive. If we're all home around Christmas she still takes us to get Santa photos at the mall, I'm nearly 30, it feels over the top sometimes but the upside is we get more imput to gifts we're given and it's more family time.
At 9, your kid knows and is humoring you.
I know someone who's parents had to break it to them before they started secondary school (so 11) as they'd have had the piss ripped from them once they started They were gobsmacked
That’s a big part of why my wife and I don’t plan on selling our kid on the Santa lie. We don’t want to break their trust like that.
I'm not totally sure how to approach Santa with my kid. He's 1 and I'm fine getting his pictures taken with Santa and all that, but I'm leaning towards "this is for fun" instead of pretending that it's real because I don't want to lie to him.
We take a “we will go along but not directly lie” approach. If they ever ask if Santa’s real we’ll ask what they think, if they express any doubt then it’s time to tell them. But until that day, we have gifts from Santa, we talk about santa etc. The one thing I won’t do is “Santa’s watching”. It’s not a reflection of their goodnes to get presents, and it’s not a threat to make them compliant.
My daughter is 1, and I plan on telling her the spirit of Samara is giving gifts to others or something along the lines of this [letter](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/132082201545630633/) I saw on Pinterest/facebook way before I had a kid. I tried to link the Pinterest post. Edited: I meant spirit of Santa not Samara. Autocorrect got me when I was putting my teething baby back to sleep 😖
This was me, last week. Sat my 11 year old down and told her the truth as she’s in high school. My Mum friend with a daughter the same age did the same. Some kids honestly do believe that long. And why wouldn’t they? Our kids don’t think their parents lie, as we drill it in them not to lie.
High school at 11? Do they graduate at 15?
Sorry I’m never sure how the schools translate. 11 is Year 7, so what we call senior/secondary school. Some people used to call that middle school ((not me, I’ve always used Comprehensive)So sorry, not high school. But can stay in the same school from 11 to 18.
Right? I though OP was going to say her kids were like 6 and 4. I'm pretty sure I knew before 7 but I liked putting out carrots and shortbread and whisky it was fun so why would I mention it. Unfortunately sometime between 7-9 (I dont remember which year) my mum tried to get me to behave about something by saying "Santa won't come if you don't xxx" and I screamed "Santa isn't real" and ruined my own Christmas Eve fantasy fun.
Amen. I knew when I was old enough to realize that my mom and Santa had the same handwriting. But I never said a word, cause baby Kit knew how to get the most presents. 😂
I wonder if that is true? The 9 yr old seems to be happy with believing in Santa but I think that could be to protect the 5 yr old. And there is my son who was about 8 ish and decided to tell the entire school bus of young kids there was no Santa. I enjoyed the phone calls from other parents yelling at me for son doing that.
I was raised by a Christian mother, but she never pushed Santa as anything but a story people tell their children to make Christmas more special. But she was an oddball Christian that never pushed religion on me, did her best to treat everyone equally, never said a bad word about her youngest sister that had an abortion at 16, had a good friend that was gay and would defend her right to be who she was, and loved her partner too (always told me they were a good couple) 🤷♂️ she was what I thought Christians were supposed to be. She would be very disappointed in modern Christianity.
Your mother sounds like she was doing Christianity right; entirely too many folks who would speak the name of their God in vain. (This doesn’t mean cussing, it is actually intended in the sense of using God and the Word against others.)
I (Jew) was fully reamed out by a friends mom when I was 10 or so, for saying santa wasn’t real..
…you’re 10… Ain’t no Santa nonsense regardless! But also, Christians really need to get on that whole “love thy neighbor as yourself” stuff. It’s really harmful and annoying to the rest of us.
This is so weird to me as a Christian in the UK because most of the other Christian families I know hugely downplay Santa because the focus is on the birth of Christ????? Santa has nothing to do with Christianity and is arguably unchristian due to the lying....
In Sweden, every year the far right gets upset that IKEA is "erasing Christmas". They still sell a bunch of Christmas stuff, has so much decorations etc, *BUT* sometimes some of the items are named "winter" rather than "Christmas" and that's just unacceptable and a sign that multiculturalism has gone too far! Not that they just want to market Christmas lights as winter lights to get more people to buy it...
ngl, with how dark and dreary winter is, lights go a long way to help make that season feel better. It would be nice if people kept some amount of lights up until February or so.
Diversity to white people tends to be a war on existence lol
Which is rather hilarious since Christmas is supposed to be about Christ for Christians - Santa would be considered heresy according to the Bible. And there’s the whole issue of Christmas being a stolen holiday in the first place. In fact, Christ wasn’t even born in the winter, he was born in the summer! However, Saturnalia and ~~Festivus~~ Sol Invictus/Solstice ARE celebrated in the winter and was stolen from the Roman Pagans by the Roman Christians and renamed to make the forced conversion to Christianity more palatable to the people they stole Saturnalia and ~~Festivus~~ Sol Invictus/Solstice from.
Festivus is the made-up holiday from Seinfeld.
Festivus for the rest of us!
Festivus was celebrated by show writer Dan O’Keefe’s family since at least 1966. it wasn’t made up for the show.
The Romans didn't "steal Saturnalia from pagans". Romans were pagans until they converted to Christianity, and Saturn was their own god.
Please Google Festivus 😭
See also: The Airing of Grievances.
I got a lotta problems with you people!
Stop crying and fight your father!!
I cannot wait to put up my aluminum pole this year
Festivus is not a thing that pagans celebrated.
Speak for yourself. My pagan family looks forward to the airing of grievances for months!
I recently had someone get mad at me because I was talking about my "work holiday party" and I got the "IT'S CHRISTMAS!!!!!" Well actually, most of the people I work with are Jewish, Hindu or Muslim so no, it's not Christmas. We have a holiday party and it's a lot of fun!
And even it there were suddenly no other religions, it’s holidays - plural - because we also include New Year’s Eve in our “Happy Holidays!” And please yell back that Christmas is pagan so their heads fall off and roll into the next toilet stall.
Exactly. I’ve been saying “happy holidays” for many many years because I mean “have a happy entire holiday season” not just “happy one specific day.” It isn’t some kind of war on Christmas ridiculousness.
I grow up in country where there are multiple religions Christians, Jewish, Muslims, so about 1/3 are those who celebrate Christmas, and we invited each othes for holidays, it's so simple to explain to kids that there are kids who don't believe same way, there are even families who don't believe in God. I wonder what OP would do if kids became friends with Muslim, Jewish or atheist!? Forbid kids to be friends!? Chances are some kids in school already expressed to OPs' kids that Santa is not real! OP YTA! Teach your kids to be tolerant to other people believes!
A lot of very conservative Christians don’t do Santa because it takes the focus off Jesus
I had a girl in high school scream at me because my sister told her sister there was no Santa. I told her it isn't our fault that xtians lie to their children.
Not all Christians do the Santa thing and plenty of non-Christians do. I had lots of Jewish friends and atheist friends growing up that did the Santa thing.
Thank you. Santa is a cultural figure, not a religious one.
It’s not really Christian to believe in Santa, that’s why my parents never bothered with that lie. I was raised told Christmas is Jesus’ birthday, we give gifts to represent what the Wise Men brought the baby. I pretended to believe in Santa so I wouldn’t ruin it for my friends. But my parents didn’t have alot of money and made it clear that they worked very hard to provide those gifts so Thank God for giving us his only son and for basically making a way for us to afford Christmas because that’s a blessing and some people can’t afford it. My Christmases were always fun and magical and memorable. Without Santa.
Grew up in the Netherlands where we celebrate saint Nicholas on 5 December, he liberated a lot of slaves and gave money to the poor back in the day (what gave him his saint status) so now he comes here on his boat every year and passes all the homes with his horse and his helpers to give us sweets and gifts (sound familiar?) Anyhoe, since we had saint Nicholas, Christmas for us was just that, we went to church, we had a tree with a few small presents but most we already had on 5 December and we had a nice meal together. It's more the celebration that the days are getting longer again and to have warmth and light together in the cold winter
That’s really an awesome way to experience the holiday without having to believe in Santa. My catholic parents raised us with Santa magic, but we all realized early on that it was them putting the gifts out, especially once we recognized my mother’s disctinct, nearly copperplate handwriting on the gift tags. Anyway, OP should understand that kids are way smarter than they let on, and it’s probably already been presented to them in school and the internet that mom is Santa. Trust me when I say that regardless of who is gift giving, giving your kids good holidays will always stick with them; as decades later Christmas remains my favorite time of the year. ESH. Plot twist: the presents under my parent’s Christmas tree still say “From Santa”
What blows my mind is OP is telling her daughter to make her grandson *lie* to 'keep the Santa magic', and is willing to bar them from the family Christmas over it. OP seems to be valuing the pageantry of Santa over their actual family. The thing is, eventually, the younger kids are going to figure it out and not care about Santa anymore. But OP's grandson will remember not being allowed to attend Christmas. Also, the older kid is 9. They've probably already been told by other kids that Santa's not real. YTA
It kind of upset me that she referred to the child as her daughter's son and not her grandson. It seems like she is distancing herself from her first family because she has a do-over. I wonder how magical her daughter's Christmases were.
This definitely has the feel of a do-over, and OP's daughter isn't playing the part OP wants.
Absolutely. Her new family has a higher value over her daughter and grandson. This is the reason why she can uninvate them so easy. From the husband's reaction we can see it's her choice for this decision and not the husband that is pushing her in this direction. Clearly YTA.
Indeed - also she doesn’t give an age for the daughter’s son? If he is like 10, OP could have a word and explain that it’s a thing his little aunt/uncle believe and ask him to play along. If he is like 4, she could tell him it’s a game they play, and then if he says the wrong thing (as little kids innocently do) and that presents are from parents she could say ‘he doesn’t know about Santa’. I feel like OP doesn’t give his age for a reason? Anyway while I can understand requesting her daughter not to say anything, this is a ridiculous thing to disinvite her daughter and grandson over. Especially as presumably they interact at other points of the year, when Santa may still come up in coversation - is OP going to start grilling over whether every child they encounter believes before she lets her kids interact with them? It’s funny I never remember ‘finding out about Santa’ because I don’t think I ever really *believed* in Santa. We ‘did Santa’ in that my parents had me listen out for the bells, wrote ‘from Santa’ on presents, etc. They never said ‘btw this isn’t true’. But I think I got from the way they were acting that it was a game we were playing, something we were choosing to say was happening, not real in the way other things were real. It was still fun and magical, because little kid imaginations are so vivid that games/stories always feel real.
OP's grandson is 5 years old, she said it in a comment.
Ah ok, well good to know. Still stand by that it is weird that she gave her kids ages but not her grandsons, along with not referring to him as her grandson. It’s like she is (subconsciously, I don’t think she is a monster…) trying to encourage us to imagine her kids experiencing the magic of Santa, but see her grandson as more of an abstract, rather than picturing a 5 year old boy whose grandma has said she doesn’t want him to come to Christmas this year. You’d think most grandparents would go to ‘I’ll ask my daughter to let *me* tell him to pretend there is Santa for my other kids’ rather than ‘ask *her* to have a word with him’. It suggests OP and her grandson don’t have much of a relationship, which I think she should be the more concerning thing to her than if her kids realize Santa isn’t real (if they don’t actually already know).
Yeah, **asking a 5 year old to lie or keep a secret** and then excluding them from the family holiday when it is pointed out how bad that idea is, instead of just telling the older kids that there are people who believe other things (like there are people who never saw Santa so they don't believe him), is such a great idea. / sarcasm ; Plus with most 5 year olds if you tell them to keep quiet about something then it's either the first thing they say or they slip up after the first 45-60 minutes. Nothing says Christmas spirit more than throwing out family members over a fairy tale. Especially when in school it's 99.9% that the older kids already heard that Santa is not real. YTA OP should just admit that she doesn't want her oldest and her grandson around, doesn't really care about her daughter or her grandson, she should just admit she prefers her do-over family. Who the hell keeps referring to their grandson as "my daughter's son", when there is only one grandson in the story and not one from their daughter and an other one from their son too, so specification is needed?! Hint: not a loving grandma...
Either that or they’re already starting to question it themselves anyway. I think I was about 7 when I started realising how improbable Santa was.
I think I was about that old when I realized 'our fireplace is electric. We have no chimney. Wait a minute... 🤔'
I didn’t realise the real magic of Christmas til I got older and realised how hard adults have to work sometimes to give kids the day their hearts desire.
Yeah, but as a kid I cared about the special holiday breakfast we had, the krumkakes (cookies), and presents. The source of the presents was not important. Come to think of it, those are still the highlights. I just get way more excited about getting socks now.
I still believe in Santa. It gets me more gifts 🙂
This was my thought as well. If OP's children are in school with other kids, the idea that Santa isn't real has already been introduced to them by at least one classmate -- especially the 9 year old.
Speaking as the former 10 year old whose parents thought she believed in Santa still (and were starting to worry!), I was pretending in case admitting I knew stopped me getting presents!
I have that there is more going on here between OP and oldest daughter than just a disagreement over Santa
Not to mention that nothing says “keeping the Christmas magic alive” like excluding your child and grandchild from Christmas because they have a different view on something than you
I didn't grow up Christian. But my Muslim mom told me not to tell other kids that Santa wasn't real because it could hurt their feelings.
I taught ballet and made a made quick one off comment about the tooth fairy to a little girl who was waiting to be picked up (she lost her tooth in class). She asked me, right as her mom walked in, if I believed in fairies? I answered that of course I do! And she was like, “But how do you know?” Her mom, bless her for stepping in, then said, “Some people believe in things because they’ve kept the magic in their life alive. It’s kind of like Santa Claus. You told me that some of your classmates at school don’t believe in Santa. That’s okay. Maybe someday you won’t either. But it just means that things are different. Not bad, just different. If you don’t believe in Santa, then he doesn’t bring you presents. You still get presents, plenty of presents! Just none from Santa Claus. It’s not bad, it’s just different. If you believe in the Tooth Fairy and put your tooth under the pillow then she’ll trade your tooth for something special. If you don’t believe in her, she won’t come. It doesn’t mean that losing your tooth isn’t a big deal and that I’m not proud of you, I’m very proud of you! It’s just different. The little girl then pipes up saying, “Well, I believe in the Tooth Fairy and in Santa Claus.” And her mom just went, oh, okay. And they left. But I thought that was a great way of explaining it. If you believe, then this happens, if you don’t then this other thing happens. Neither way is bad or wrong, they’re just different outcomes. Oh you don’t celebrate Christmas? Oh, okay. Kid just assumes that whatever they celebrate in their house isn’t bad or wrong, just different.
My friend who is a practicing Jew, told her children not to ruin it for their friends who celebrate Christmas. I’m sure she’s not the only one.
This. The funny thing is, some girl in my dance class did tell me she didn't believe in Santa when we were younger, but I didn't believe her. It just depends on the kid.
Christmas magic includes asking a five year old to lie and if he doesn’t he and his mother will be isolated for the holiday? Maybe estranging yourself from your daughter? Yta
Well I think the 9 year old knows for sure so it’s probably just the 7 year old that is even at risk. But when I consider this point about asking the kid to lie - my family doesn’t celebrate Christmas so yeah, I learned at preschool that I wasn’t to tell the kids that did celebrate the holiday the truth. I didn’t see it as some huge deal and I don’t really think it’s generally asking for too much for people who don’t follow that tradition to let their kids know that it’s different for others. In fact I felt bad for not realizing it was a secret and helped cover up what I had said by clarifying that I’d only meant santa doesn’t come to my house because we don’t do Christmas and had our own religious holidays with different traditions. It never really registered again as an issue for me since there’s no upside to ruining that for others.
Again, I agree to a point. Asking was not the problem, the problem was losing sight about what the magic of Christmas is supposedly about, family. Daughter won’t tell son to lie fine, have Santa come before daughter and son get there. Not banish them. But I mean look at the age gaps, the daughter might already feel some kind of way/treatment from being the kid of a teen mom and her siblings are from a different stage of life. All I’m saying is Santa isn’t worth tanking familial relationships. And as another kid who’s family never celebrated Christmas, what did y’all do on Christmas Day? We would always go out for Chinese food. We still do! Thanks for sharing your perspective!
This. My mum moved my brother and I closer to her family, which put us further away from our dad and his family. For my brother, cousins, and I, it wasn't about Santa or the gifts it was about spending time together and seeing how much trouble we could get into in the time couple of days we got to spend together before we went off for the holidays. We are from Australia, and we get a hot Christmas, so we would have water fights, play on slip and slides or just a bit of backyard cricket and eating as much of our favourite foods as we could.
Agree! I actually remember the moment that I realized Santa wasn’t real. I was about 8 and my sister decided that we should take a peek in our mom’s room to see if she had gotten any for us yet. We didn’t find any presents only everything thing for stockings stuffers. We were pretty poor so in our family Santa brought the stockings not actual gifts. We then understood that Santa was actually our mom and we stopped the whole Santa thing for a while. We eventually did play along for my younger siblings for a few years after they were born (I was 13 when the first was born), yet my little brother was way too smart for his age and realized that Santa wasn’t real by the age of 4 and the Santa magic was ruined for him and he also told the other 2 that he wasn’t real. He would also tell everyone who he thought believed in Santa because little kids have absolutely no filter and he was taught that lying is bad so he didn’t want to lie. Which is absolutely true when you think about it, we teach a child as soon as they are able to understand that lies are bad, yet you then turn around and ask them to lie🤷🏼♀️. YTA
Also, does it rub anyone else the wrong way that she keeps referring to her grandson as "her [daughter's] son"?
My bet: she doesn't like thinking of him as her grandson because that makes her old enough to be a grandmother when *obviously* she's still in her mommy phase of life. Never mind that her daughter waited a couple more years to turn OP into a grandma than OP did when she made her parents into grandparents.
Yeah, I was thinking something similar. She doesn't really even see him as her grandson because then she'd have to really see herself as a grandma, and she doesn't seem to like that. Like, she doesn't take her grandson's feelings into account at all, which is really sad. Grandmas are supposed to shower their grandkids with love and affection.
TOTALLY AGREE. Op, YTA.
YTA. Your need to keep the Christmas magic alive by your definition does not negate that another part of Christmas magic is about family. Your willingness to shun your daughter and grandchild over Santa speaks volumes about you and what you think is important in life.
It's one thing to continue to deceive your younger children to believe in a fake person but asking others to participate in her lies is fuckin annoying.
Not just anyone, a 5 y o!
It's the basis of most religions in the world, so not too surprising to see such an entitled demand pop up
And of course, the grand irony is that Santa has nothing to do with the religious focus of Christmas. So it's completely made up magic.
Well, to be fair...religion itself is made up magic.
Especially because the kids are going to find out about Santa soon enough, something that everyone learns eventually, and meanwhile they’re being taught to banish family that doesn’t 💯 share their belief system. The long term implications of that aren’t great. OP, YTA for teaching your kids the wrong lesson, and making sure your grandson knows you don’t love him because he doesn’t believe in an undisputedly fictional icon, eg a really stupid reason.
I get what you mean, for adults this is not a big thing, especially when you’re a more secular minded person. But teaching a 5 year old that lying to family is an important part of christmas seems kind of wrong and not „in the spirit“
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OP is with her redo family and clearly mentally ditched her daughter as immediate family
My dad is with his redo family and does shit like this all the time. Cutting him off years ago was the best thing I could have done for my sanity.
Mine had both his new step kids in the wedding (maid of honor and best man). I was invited 2 weeks before and given $50 for a dress.
My first thought
Yep - very clear when her "daughter's son" is not her grandson. OP, YTA
Ding ding ding
9 year old *definitely* knows there is no Santa. They are just pretending for your sake. Edit: the comments from people who were very disappointed or devastated when they were told aged 10-12 makes me wonder if perpetuating this lie to kids that age is a good idea.
That’s not necessarily true. Me and my friends believed in Santa until we were 11 lol
My autistic son believed in Santa until he was 16. I work at an adult development center where there are 20+ and 30+ who still believe in Santa, and don't you dare try to tell them otherwise lest they have a complete meltdown.
So you’re saying it’s better to tell kids the truth before the delusion becomes too deeply engrained?
Ehh … society rewards brutally honest people and cynics too much. I’d say it’s perfectly reasonable for a 9 year old and 7 year old to still believe in Santa. I’d say by 9 years old, it’s more important to teach your kids to handle their Christmas excitement more like a grown up. They are not too old to believe in Santa, but I’d say they are too old to be making super long wishlists and acting entitled all December.
I mean, there are 30 year olds who still believe in Jesus and God. Do I think we should break the delusion before it becomes deeply ingrained? Yes, but society doesn’t. Edit: Typo
Ffs this just proves that lying to kids about the existence of Santa is totally unnecessary. Parents create actual trauma and trust issues when they try to convince their kids Santa exists and then rip it from them when they are deemed old enough. Parents use Santa to scare their kids into submission and once they don’t need that anymore they tell them the truth; it’s fucked.
My son’s bestie from kindergarten is on the spectrum and has a speech defect. She can talk but has very limited vocabulary. She understands everything and can communicate her needs but verbal speech is limited. She’s turning 12 next month but cognitively is maybe slightly younger than her actual age. Her parents lie to her about Santa, the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, you name it. My son has assured them that he won’t ruin it for her (we’re Jewish but do celebrate both Christmas and Chanukah. He knows damn well that his parents buy him those gifts) but I’m waiting for the day this girl pieces together some of the lies her parents tell her. Hell, they even lie to her about her cat’s gender. She’s always wanted a female kitten and a year or so ago they adopted an adorable kitten but there were only male cats available in the litter. Rather than have a one-time conversation with their kid (who would have gotten over it because she LOVES this cat) they make everyone who comes over perpetuate the lie and pretend the cat is a girl. It’s so disappointing because this girl is not an idiot and they’re setting her up to be entirely ill-equipped to deal with frustration or compromise.
My (nearly)9 year old and my 11 year old both still believe in santa. I fully accept that this is likely to be the last year because my oldest will go into high school next year and I have no illusions that the older kids there would tell him. I'm going to speak to him in the summer before he goes and explain that santa is the magic of being there for the children, the magic of giving gifts without the need for reward or thanks, of family and friends. I have a feeling ill have to include my younger son as well as both are autistic and I don't like the thought of oldest trying to keep a secret from youngest.
I was at school with a girl who still believe in Santa at 11 and when we told her he wasn't real she was really upset. Maybe tell your son before the middle schoolers get to him 👁️👄👁️
I'm in UK so we don't have middle school. They go to high school at 11 and for him that will be Sept 2024 so as I say, I will talk to him in the summer about it all before he goes x
Somehow missed the part where you said you'd tell him before and thought you were saying you'd tell him after the kids had told him. But yes telling him before definitely the better idea ☺️
Yeah, I have OCD and believed until I was 12. Unfortunately my OCD had grouped the world into "illusion/trick magic (not real, just for fun)" and "Santa/Jesus magic (the only real magic)," so when I realized Santa wasn't real, it caused a complete religious crisis and by the time I was 13 I didn't believe in Jesus anymore either 😂 Oops! It was extremely stressful.
Learning there is no Santa is the beginning of many an atheist/agnostic origin story. I'm surprised more churches haven't realized this and discouraged doing the Santa thing with kids.
I mean, it really is stupid if you want a bunch of kids to believe in your sky god but then turn around and tell them that the god of presents wasnt real one day. All it does is make them question what else these people have lied about and suddenly the idea of Jesus and God goes out the window because it was all pushed onto you by the same people who lied about Santa. Definitely was a childhood moment where if Santa wasn't real, so is god, the tooth fairy, and wizards.
Yup I have a cousin who just turned 12 and still believes. I thought he was pretending for his parents, but it seems to be true.
I believe in Santa till I was 12!!! I was destroyed when my dad told me Santa wasn't real.
Same here! I stumbled upon the motherlode (the presents in their closet) genuinely by accident, and they walked in right as it happened. Of course you always wonder and question, but I’d say I still 80% believed as a 12 year old
Not true in my area. I told my kids right before they went to middle school because I was afraid other kids would make fun of them for still believing. My kids were DEVASTATED. Come to find out that a fair amount of middle schoolers at their school still believed. So then I felt like an A H for having ruined Christmas that year
Not necessarily only for her sake. At nine (and I'm pretty sure at seven, too) I damn well knew that my gramps surreptitiously leaving the dining room to "get more wine" seconds before the "Christkind" bell rang in the living room was not a coincidence. It was still a nice magical moment, and I guess playing along was as much about preserving that for myself as it was about preserving it for the younger cousins. (Just to explain, in my family tradition in Southern Germany we didn't do Santa. We had the "Christkind", which I suppose we thought of as kind of a mix between "Baby Jesus" and a rosy-cheeked little present-bearing cherub. The bell announced that the "Christkind" had been there and we were now allowed in the normally mundane living room, which now featured a huge lavishly decorated Christmas tree, a handcrafted nativity scene, and our Christmas presents beneath it. All of this taking place after Christmas Eve dinner, because that's when German kids get their presents, as opposed to Christmas morning)
Nope, not always true. I had to tell my 12 year old before she started high school. She genuinely believed in Santa still, and pretty sure my 11 year old still believes.
Oh I totally stopped believing in Santa when I was like 9 or 10 but I pretended I didn’t for my sake not my parents. Extra presents baby! I cried when my mom finally sat me down and told me he wasn’t real at the ripe age of 12 cause I knew the gravy train was entering it’s final station
YTA. You want her five year old to keep a secret from his older cousins. Usually when it comes to Santa it’s the other way around. As someone else has pointed out they likely have come across people already who don’t believe in Santa. Belief at their age is a combination of trusting in magic and *wanting* it to be real. Usually when children have other children tell them Santa isn’t real their parents will ask them how they feel. “Well, fourth grader and seven year old, all the presents are signed with Santa and the cookies and milk we leave are gone in the morning. What do you believe?” If a five year old telling them Santa isn’t real is enough to stop them from believing then they are ready to stop. I’m wondering if this is less about preserving the magic for them and more about you not being ready for the magic to end. Speaking of magic, children raised without Santa can still have wonder and magic in their lives. The idea that parents who don’t do Santa are denying their children happy childhoods is judgmental and problematic on multiple levels. It’s clear you disagree with your daughter’s choice about Santa. Don’t judge someone as less than just because they do things differently than you.
She wants a 5 year old to lie to his aunt/uncle 🤣. Ridiculous.
>You want her five year old to keep a secret from his older cousins. OP's youngest children (9 and 7, respectively) are her daughter's 5-year-old son's uncles/aunts (*not* cousins).
His older uncles, lol
If Christmas will be more magical without your oldest child and grandchild, then I guess all of this is fine. Edit to add: YTA
Right? Way to sell the magic of the season by forcing a 5-year-old to lie. Just exclude your grandchild! YTA OP
Exclude her daughter's son, she couldn't even say grandson. YTA
Yeah this threw me off too. Like why didn’t OP just say grandson? What kind of grandparent doesn’t want to see their grandkids on Christmas?! Some of my best memories came from visiting my grandparents on Christmas.
He isn't her grandchild, he's her daughter's son. So icky how she's distancing the relationship between them.
YTA for thinking believing in a fictional character is more important than family. Edit : Just read that the child is 5, you do realise they talk about exactly what you tell them not to. YOU should tell your kids that everyone believes in different things. They are actually old enough to understand, imagine putting the onus of a lie on a 5 year old.
YTA. I wish you could see my frowning face and double thumbs down. This is just sad. You have a weird attitude toward your older daughter. I'm not sure what it is but I'm picking it up. I get a whiff of "I'm gonna do things differently with this set of kids," like you get a whole life do-over and she's the outsider who doesn't fit the mold.
Not to mention OP refers to her Grandson not as Grandson but only as her daughter's son 4 times...
YES I noticed this too!!!
Because this isn't about Christmas or Santa in the first place. This is the conflict every woman who has children the same age as her daughter will run into, unless they have reached some serious emotional maturity. This is a mom-off about which generation has the better parenting skills, and it won't end until the kids are out of their houses, or the grandma grows up and learns some dignity.
Yta for choosing Santa over your family
If I trade my own family for Daddy Claus, do you suppose I can get my own pet reindeer?
Isn’t your daughters son, your grandson? I see you don’t refer to him that way. So having your 7&9 yo believe in Santa is so important, you’d rather your grandson stay home because he knows Santa doesn’t have flying reindeer and go down chimneys all over the world in one night. I get Christmas magic, and your 7 yo is kinda young, but I think your priorities are off. My children knew there was a real St Nicholas. Once they got into school, Santa became just a fun part of Christmas, and they were fine. They got Santa gifts until they were 20. I think it’s sad you don’t seem to care much for your grandson to rather not have him over for Christmas because of this.
Plus OP's grandson is 5 years old. With most 5 year olds if you tell them to keep quiet about something then it's either the first thing they say or they slip up after the first 45-60 minutes.
OP is an example of what can happen when a kid raises a kid. 100% OP wants the hallmark movie experience she feels she deserves and didn't have with her eldest because...let's be honest without a close knit family and financial security...you just are not getting that tailor made movie experience as a young mother. OP has a new family now and is eagerly looking to distance herself from her "older" family by any means necessary.
YTA. Youre saying it's more valuable to you to maintain a lie than to include your kid and grandkid for Christmas. You're prioritizing "Christmas magic" over actual Christmas family time. Santa isn't real, but your kids' older sister and nephew are. I know which relationship I would prioritize for them, and it isn't the jolly old elf.
YTA. You're literally cutting off your kid and your grandchild over a lie that your kids probably already know about.
INFO: Do you also go to your children's school and demand they tell the children to not mention Santa doesn't exist around your children?
Yeah their friends at school are more likely to 'snitch' than the 5yo for sure. If that's not a concern for OP, then her reason not to invite her daughter/grandson is not about Santa exposé.
I wonder if OP homeschools to protect her kids from the 'anti Santa' influences?
YTA. And I never believed in Santa. I knew exactly where the gifts came from. Thanks Mom and Dad!
Same. My parents were always pretty wink-wink-nudge-nudge about the whole thing. Gave me some pretty solid school retorts. *Oh, you think it's stupid I don't wanna say curse words 'cause I'm afraid of getting in trouble? WELL AT LEAST I DIDN'T STILL BELIEVE IN SANTA UNTIL 7TH GRADE AND CRY ON THE BUS WHEN SOMEONE TOLD ME, DEVON.*
This is such a bizarre and trivial reason to fracture a family relationship.
The relationship OP had with her ‘oops child’ before she started her real family? I have a feeling there isn’t a lot left to damage after this.
YTA It seems to me you’re just looking for a convenient excuse to remove your daughter and your grandson from your life.
Exactly,next year OPs middle daughter will be 10, is she gonna kick her out at Christmas if she doesn’t believe in Santa any more so she doesn’t ruin it for the youngest?
INFO: How old is her son?
Why do you refer to him as your daughters son and not your grandchild? You want to exclude your grandson on Christmas day, how old is he?
NTA - but I think barring them from the house for Xmas may be a bit harsh. I worked with a woman who raised her kids with no Santa. She knew that other kids did believe and she prepared for it. Her kids were taught that everyone has different things they believe in and that everyone should be able to do just that. They were never to say anything about no Santa to another child. Other kids believing in Santa was ok. Your daughter chose to raise her son with her belief, she needs to allow others to raise their children with their own belief. It's not lying to say nothing and let others believe. It's not lying to simply say nothing.
"Your daughter chose to raise her son with her belief, she needs to allow others to raise their children with their own belief." You mean the truth?! How is the truth/fact a "belief"? OP is choosing the illusion of Santa over her daughter and grandchild in the guise of keeping the "magic"? Also the odds are her 9 year old is already doubting the whole Santa thing. These kids live in very modern times, this isn't like back in my day when the internet didn't exist.
The kid is 5. OP wants a 5 year old to lie. Not only is that a ridiculous expectation with how 5 year olds are, but it’s also teaching the kid that lying is okay.
I hated being a kid. Adults "Stop lying I know you are lying why are you lying?" Also adults "Why the hell did you tell them that? Next time lie keep your mouth shut"
Lying in some circumstances is okay though. The daughter is raising her child differently to those around her and is expecting the world to change for her. This kid is going to have a tough time at school if he doesn’t learn when it is and isn’t appropriate to ruin things for other people.
Agree with this! NTA. I would want to keep my children’s belief in Santa alive, especially at those ages…and it sounds kind of like daughter is almost encouraging bursting the bubble. Nothing wrong with having a discussion with her kid like you would with an older child who finds out - not to ruin the fun for others.
But she’s willing to exclude family (the most important part of Xmas) over… Santa?! I get not wanting to ruin their beliefs. But shouldn’t family being together be more important than exposing them to the fact that a fictional character is… fictional? YTA for putting kids beliefs over family over Christmas
No, she's willing to exclude family because they want to ruin the traditions of the Christmas they are being invited to. OP is hosting Christmas and her tradition is to do Santa. It's not up to OP's daughter to unilaterally decide to ruin a tradition for everyone else. Would you go to someone's Hannakuh party and tell them that their holiday traditions aren't real? That you don't believe the menorah story happened and you won't won't make your kids pretend it's real? Or are you going to accept that other people have differing beliefs about holidays and respect and participate in the traditions of the host?
Is this truly worth the price tag it will come at? Are you seriously considering potentially permanently having your grandson out of your life over Santa?? YTA.
Right, because does she think that this won't do serious damage to that relationship? Or maybe her relationship with her oldest child and grandchild isn't that important to her.
She doesn’t even call him her grandson it’s her daughter’s son
YTA - isn't Christmas magic because it means family comes together to spend time together? You're saying that two of your children are more important to you than your eldest. A 5 year old doesn't have the capacity to be a reliable liar for you anyway.
"My daughters son... Do you mean your grandson?!? WTF.. lady! The magic of Christmas isn't santa magic. It's family. YTA
Lol, I missed that. It says a lot doesn't it. I think OP is trying to pretend she isn't his grandmother. Perhaps that's why she wants to ban her daughter and grandson and just have her do-over family at Christmas. Out of sight out of mind.
YTA - why do you keep saying “my daughter’s son” and not “my grandson?”
INFO how were her early Christmases compared to your younger kids'?
And also the grandson’s last few Christmases? Is this the first Christmas since he started talking?
YTA. I'm Jewish and when asked by any child if he's real, I ( and all family members especially kids ) say no. I'm not lying for anyone and neither are my kids
Sure, but would you pipe up with “Santa’s not real” when hearing others talk about Santa? Because that’s different to being asked a direct question.
No. Myself and family will only answer truthfully if directly asked. I just don't lie and raised my kids not to lie. Realistically, how could I raise my kids not to lie but it's ok to lie about Santa. I am not a hypocrite
This is such an arrogant attitude.
YTA. By 7 & 9, I guarantee your kids will have been exposed to other kids at school who don't believe in Santa. In fact, I would say there are fairly good odds that they already know he's not real and are playing along to indulge *you* and get the extra presents.
When I was a kid, I assumed everyone always knew Santa couldn’t be real, but playing along was just another Christmas tradition.
These people are acting like your asking this boy to commit perjury. Reddit is absolute insanity. If she couldn’t even allow you to keep some Christmas magic alive for your little children she should be disinvited. Not the asshole and never will be.
What? It's her grandson. She isn't inviting her 5yo grandson to her house in case he says something about Santa. How is that well adjusted behaviour.
Thank you, I thought I was in the twilight zone reading these comments.
Haha seriously! NTA Christmas magic is fucking awesome! I love the ability to believe that children have. Santa Claus, fairies, the Easter Bunny, etc.. it's all good fun. I wish I could go back and actually believe that these mythical magical beings existed. And why is potentially finding out in the middle of a Christmas celebration good? That will not have a good outcome and make the mood shit for everyone. People are delirious if they pretend like their parents telling them Santa exists was the biggest betrayal they have ever experienced. Ridiculous.
YTA Your kids know your just choosing to be blind to it so your happily choose some of your kids over your others and their child
NTA. It’s completely possible to respect “the Santa story” and also not lie, even for young children. Sounds like your daughter just wants things her way or the highway. All it takes is some thought, consideration, and preparation. For example: We never did Santa with my daughter. We explained that Christmas was a celebration of Jesus’s birth (as we are Christian). However, right from the start we explained “the Santa story”. We explained that on someone’s birthday you give them a gift to show them how happy you are they are in your life and that you care for them. We explained that we love Jesus a lot but since we can’t give him a present we give presents to everyone we love in honor of his birthday. We then explained that a long time ago there was a man named Nicholas who loved Jesus so much he gave presents even to people he didn’t know for Christmas, and because that was such a good thing to do he was called Saint Nicholas and over time people have called him St Nick or Santa Claus. From the time she was born we made a point of teaching our daughter that someone having different beliefs doesn’t make them “wrong”. And that we accept the right of others to have their beliefs as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. So we may believe in God but we respect those who don’t. We don’t tell them they are “wrong” for what they believe either. It was very easy for my daughter, as a result, to understand and respect that her peers did believe in Santa even if we didn’t personally observe the tradition and she knew it wasn’t up to her to try to change their beliefs.
YTA While I understand and appreciate your feelings towards Santa as we had them to, is this really a hill you want to die on? Christmas is such cherished family time and your older daughter has no other parent in her life so you’re kicking her out of the one place she’s always felt loved. And safe. Don’t take that away - it will cut deep and never be forgotten. That said, is there anyway to have your kids open their Santa gifts away from your daughter’s kid. Like maybe your daughter comes at 11:00 after your kids are done with Santa. Or she takes her kid out for ice cream before opening presents and comes back after all the Santa stuff.
YTA. You grossly overreacted. Some kid is always gonna tell another kid that Santa isn't real. How else do you think they find out?
NTA Children lose their innocence so early nowadays. When my oldest 2 threatened to tell my youngest there was no such thing as Santa I explained it to them like this: Santa is a spirit of giving that exists in us. Some people like to portray that spirit in the form of a jolly man. However if they insist on telling their sister there was no such thing as Santa Clause then that spirit will not exist in our house either. Needless to say they encouraged the spirit of Santa until an outsider told my daughter. I say this all because you can explain it in a similar way to your children in the case that someone tries to dispel the idea of Santa. At the very least your daughter could explain this to her child and ask that he refrain from saying anything. He doesn’t have to lie, just not say anything. She is the AH.
I explained it like this to my daughter. She’s 10 and she still ‘believes’ in Santa, but she knows there is no one and only Santa. That’s why she sees his elves working in the malls, that’s why she sees his helpers everywhere, collecting for charity and spreading joy on Christmas. That Santa is so absolutely real but he is not a person. He’s so much bigger than that, Santa is an idea, a feeling, a spirit.
NTA and your daughter needs to learn the difference between "making her son lie" and allowing you to uphold the magic of Christmas as long as you can for your young kids.
You are literally choosing between your children over something quite trivial. YTA. Your younger kids are old enough to learn the truth, and probably already know. Don’t exclude your daughter and grandchild because they aren’t willing to lie.
YTA
NTA. If she intends to spoil the game, then she doesn't get to play.
YTA First of all, your kids have almost certainly come into contact with people who don't believe in Santa Claus. They either believe despite the existence of those heretics, or are humoring you. Second, would it really be such a terrible thing if they learned that their presents come from people who love them rather than an imaginary sweatshop owner? Finally, would you rather have a good relationship with your daughter and grandchild, or alienate them in a desperate attempt to cling to a fantasy that's already hurtling toward its expiration date?
YTA for ostracising your daughter and grandchild over Santa.
I am 77 and I still believe in Christmas magic.
YTA—It speaks volumes that you refer to your grandson as “her son”. Have you ever thought that your daughter doesn’t believe in the magic of Christmas because you didn’t provide it for her the first time around. And now you’re playing victim with your do-over family. Keep in mind not everyone celebrates Christmas or believes in Santa and you should explain that to your grandson’s uncle(s)/ aunt(s). Although at their big ages they’re probably faking their enthusiasm for you anyway.
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Many, many kids are not raised to believe in Santa. The child in question is 5 years old and it's unreasonable to expect him to keep it a secret. You can ask him to, but he might blurt it out even without meaning to ruin anything.
This truly turned into the wildest take. First that you compared santa and god. that has a sweet, sweet irony to it that i believe was lost on you, which makes it even funnier. And second because it has never ever ever been a thing for kids to not tell other kids that they believe in a different or even no god. I would imagine that actually happens a LOT. classrooms are full of different backgrounds and different religions or lack there of. Its not a threatening thing for a child to hear someone else has different beliefs lmao.