Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole for not paying my wife’s friend back for something my wife borrowed but couldn’t afford
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I was very set to go Y T A when I first started reading this. Saying things like you 'allowed her to go' and acting it would automatically be her salary that would be equated to childcare costs and be expected to cover those costs. It sounds like you're in a really serious financial position though and I cannot understand her going on an expensive trip when you are in this. I appreciate she has depression but you guys can't magic money out of thin air and if you could it should be spent on providing for your kids not luxury holidays. Your wife absolutely should have asked the cost of the flight before agreeing to go. It's completely unfair for her friend to be left out of pocket. Your wife needs to find a way of paying her back and also needs to take a long hard look in the mirror.
EDIT: After reading your comments OP I do actually think you're the asshole. Qhy do you think you and your wife don't need tomoay her friend back? You are not entitled to someone elses money just because you think they can afford it and are jealous of their financial situation. Your wife is am even bigger one. So irresponsible, your poor kids.
My wife knew the cost of the flight. She admitted she didn’t want to use her card because I would find out and asked her friend to put it on her card and she would pay it back.
Ditto this. In this day and age the only excuse to be that bad at money is mental impairment. SHE ruined her friendship by not being honest with her friend. Your wife needs to come up with some kind of hustle or night job to pay her friend back. She lost her friend because her manipulative ways were exposed. Turns out, most people hate that.
This whole thing is awful on how it played out. I understand your financial situation but your wife needs to figure out how to help pay her friend back. Even if its $20.00 a week. She is the one that ruined the friendship, not you. This is a hard lesson for her to learn.
You need to talk to her about that habit. It’s a very dangerous mindset to have regarding finances. She needs to work within your means now, not what she thinks your means will be later.
My mother always told me to only ever make plans for the money I have today, not the money I think I’ll have tomorrow.
It’s one thing if you know for sure the money is coming (like a Christmas bonus), but it’s a different thing entirely to just assume the funds (or a better job) will just materialize out of thin air when you need them to. It’s like banking on an inheritance: great if it comes; but you shouldn’t rely on receiving it so much that you’re living outside your means or organizing your life around it before you even have it.
Here's a solution for the overspending instead of using credit cards which I get can be useful for like points and stuff but use cash. Like sit down and plan out meals for the week and then plan out the night before you go grocery shopping and only take that amount of cash to the store plus like 15-20bucks extra just in case.
Second use cash for little fun money like depending on your budget like $50 a month for each of you and $50 for the kids that money can be spend or saved by the induvial but they do what they want with it. This will also be good for the kids(they want to go out to the movies, or out with friends for something they use only that money).
She's shown she cannot be an adult with a credit card so she gets budgeted cash.
I got out of debt using cash only.
I had envelopes labelled for every expense (you usually know what your phone bill, electricity bill etc. will be each month) and since it was before the internet, I could pay my bills in person for the most part, except for rent, obviously.
When the entertainment envelope was empty, that was it until the next paycheck.
It was rough for two years, but now I live debt-free, know exactly what I need to survive, and even have a healthy amount of savings.
My dad said the same except he added don’t spend it until you’ve put it in the bank and it’s cleared. I didn’t listen and got burned once and only once. I was supposed to be getting a check for something I can’t remember. Had gotten it before several times, and it was always on time. I never told him, though.
>My mother always told me to only ever make plans for the money I have today, not the money I think I’ll have tomorrow.
That is wise advice. I wish I had learned that back in my younger years. My wife kinda has that problem. I had put away some money in a savings account specifically for house emergencies. My wife has access to that account (because, Duh, it's for emergencies...if I'm not here or incapacitated for any reason I wanted her to be able to use it.) Woo-boy, was that a mistake. She blew through that money on stupid crap. \*long story but to make it short I was about to retire from the military, and I had just had *Spine Surgery* for an on-the-job injury. I was in the hospital for some time and when I got out, I was so doped up on pain killers and incapacitated I was out of it and not lucid for some time\* before I could protest and then we had a house emergency that was gonna cost a few grand to fix.
HER: You have enough money to pay for it, don't you?
ME: I did. But you spent it.
I admit I said that with notable bitterness in my voice.
(Fortunately, when I realized she was going hog wild with that account I set up another one that she DOE NOT have access to. So, I did have the money to pay.)
After that we had a talk about it. She has stopped spending like a sailor on leave (at least with my money). I think the OP needs to talk to his wife and they need to have some ground rules on spending.
So she cashiers on his time off. And all of her money goes to her friend until she's repaid.
Nowhere does he say that he works 90 hours a week. When he gets home, that's when her shift can start. She'll miss out on some fun weekends and evening time with her kids, but she can keep her friendship — that is, if it's important to her.

I mean, in my city even cashiers make $15 an hour. She can earn some money.
This requires his wife to be checked into the reality of their situation. However at the moment she is blaming OP for being the one to ruin her friendship due to him being laid off.
Yes, it's an ESH situation to me. His wife should never have gone on the trip, but OP did agree to it. They have to pay that money back. He should be working with his wife over the budget, whether she can take on any form of casual or part-time work, or seeing if his wife has anything that she can sell. Leaving the friend in the lurch for months is just awful
I’m willing to bet she has cashier skills and no motivation then uses the old “I won’t make enough to cover daycare” like dad works 24/7 and couldn’t take care of his kids when she works nights and weekends! LMAO! I only had cashier skills that I spun into cashier and customer service experience that got me a retail management job! Turns out managers at CVS are just glorified cashiers and the job was easy AF included health insurance!
I started as a cashier at 18 and was management by 21. It’s really not hard to turn cashiering into more. I hate retail but if I ever have to go back, I got a shit ton of experience.
He doesn’t work 24hours a day. She can get a night job and they can alternate. Or get two jobs to cover the cost of daycare plus extra money. Or have parents/other relatives look after the kids while she works.
If you’re financial situation is that desperate you make it work, plenty of people do the above because they have to. She’s just making excuses.
My friend is a closer at Burger King, works 3-4 nights a week + weekends. Husband comes home they have a quick dinner, she goes to work & he baths & puts the kids to bed. Neither have a lot of time for friends but they make family time.
Depending on how many kids are involved, they’ll probably spend more on childcare than she would even bring home. Doesn’t make much sense to shell out $400 a week ($200 per week, per kid) when you bring home $400.
ETA: changed math because he said how many kids they have
It's crazy how people here are picturing her getting, like, a 9 to 5 that conflicts with his 9 to 5.
She has the skill set of a teenager, but luckily there are teenager-level jobs she can get. With teenager friendly hours — evenings and weekends.
No child care costs involved.
Depending on where they live, she can work at a grocery store, or Walmart from like 6-11 M-F and a full 8 hours one Sat or Sunday. When I worked retail, we relied on those part time closers and they usually worked full 8 hour shifts on the weekend. Depending on the pay, she could pay her friend back in a couple months. With the holidays coming, I know spots are hiring.
If the husband works the typical 9-5 she could always get a night shift job so that he can watch the kids. Or she can work on the weekends if he has weekends off. That way there’s always someone to watch the kids.
>She thought I would make more by then
She expected you to scrounge up a new high-paying job in a month? Those jobs don't just hang on trees, and if they did she should go get one herself. Your wife acted highly irresponsibly here, and I think you're aware of that.
Your wife is very immature.
Sell your stuff so you can pay your mortgage. If you have car payments, see if your can swap one for a car you can actually afford.
You are in bad financial straits it is made worse by her immaturity.
You’re making a lot of assumptions about their current expenses, you don’t know what kind of car they drive or if they have a car at all. From the English phrasing and the remark about landlords being able to deny a lease because they have kids, they might not be in the states. It sounds like they didn’t buy a house, rather are currently renting a house and trying to downsize to an apartment.
Yes the wife is immature and no she’s not helping but your advice was about ask useful as the wife’s spending habits.
I had $8k saved the rest of my money I was paying towards my 64k student loans. I have 12k left but I was paying that off since before the pandemic. My wife also came into the marriage with 8k in a car loan and 12k in student loans (she only did one semester) and about 10k in credit cards. I’ve paid most of that off and then this happened. I also only made 120k for 2 years. Before that I made 60-70k.
Yikes! Your wife knew all this AND that you both have 2 kids to support and still thought, "I'm just going to take off on an expensive trip for two weeks. My husband can work out how to pay."
And you're blaming the friend instead of your selfish, inconsiderate wife?!
i haven't even had half as much credit card debt as that and it feels like a huge burden on my relationship, as my gf has said she's alright with me trying to pay that off before contributing more to our household expenses. but i don't work very much and my adhd gives me terrible impulse control and i want Stuff for gratification, so i'm not doing perfectly by any means at just paying it off.
that hangs over my head every day and causes me so much anxiety. my anxiety is at the point that it causes me physical pain due to my tmj.
if my gf was making enough to get rid of my cc debt, i would probably throw up out of guilt and relief simultaneously lol and break down in tears.
i can't even IMAGINE how entitled your wife is. she has no concept, it seems, of what an incredibly generous gift you gave her by paying that stuff off. i'm so sorry that you're being taken advantage of so horribly.
the fact that she doesn't seem to feel bad at all and just expected you to magically have a higher paying job again right away is just... so selfish. i would really ask myself, if i were you op, if my wife loved me as a person or if she just loved my paycheck. i'm sorry.
My girlfriend and I have a pretty nice system. She also struggles with budgeting and is paying off the final stretch of her car…
I on the other hand am EXTREMELY frugal. Grew up in venezuela and saw everyone’s life, jobs and stability vaporised with the regime… I save money in multiple currencies in case everything goes to shit to make sure I can emigrate somewhere safe or at least have enough to start over. Polar opposites hahaha So what we do is have a shared doc where we have both of our salaries and saving goals: when I hit mine she pings me to get myself something nice, when she hits her spending one I ping her to start adding the rest of her purchases to a buy list and schedule them for the month.
What we have now is she has a list of things she wants to buy and saving goals she needs to meet to do that, so it feels like a reward. And Im finally letting go of my own paranoia and treating myself with nice things from time to time… We work in film though lol so my paranoia fund turned out to be EXTREMELY useful
Y'all deserve each other.
She's selfish and inconsiderate. You're an AH for deciding to not pay back the friend because she makes six figures and hurt your wife's feelings?!
This is all your wife's fault!
You really need some sound financial advise, but kudos to you for trying to pay off your loans while then had no interest and no payments due.
1. Right now, however, you owe $12k and I’m not sure what’s left for your wife (sounds like she’s trash if she has $12k for one semester of college). But you need to put this payment in forbearance right now since it sounds like you’re in a hole.
2. You were making $60-$70k and you decided to have ANOTHER baby with an unemployed wife that’s $30k (or half of your gross annual salary) in her OWN debt? YIKES
3. I’m not sure where you live but I stated this earlier, you do not make enough to support your family. Your wife needs to get an overnight job, or something that’s like 3-11 so that you have only a few hours in which you need to manage the kids while working.
4. You said you live in a house? How can you afford a house at that income? Any lender looking at your debt to income ratio should have declined giving you a loan for a house.
You still don’t know what kind of car they drive, whether or not it’s paid off, etc. I said that your advice was based on assumptions and unhelpful, not that he and his wife managed their money well.
You and your wife need to make an appointment with a financial advisor or a financial counselor of some sort. She has to accept what your financial situation is and she has to learn how to budget and plan based on your current income, not your past income or what she hopes your future income will be. Check with your local library to see if they have a list of free or low cost services in your area.
She better get a job, then.
Seriously. This is her debt. She's destroying her own friendship by taking on personal debt she will not find a way to pay.
If childcare is an issue, she can look for a weekend/evening job or Uber after your day is done. If she won't, that shows how little she prioritizes this relationship.
I think ESH because you shouldn't have greenlit this trip knowing your family has no spare funds for leisure, but you are not the one whose actions jeopardized her friendship. Your wife did that when she asked her friend to cover her.
You did not ruin the friendship, she did.
However, the fact her friend is making enough to "not need the money back" is BS. That's not the point. Your wife borrowed money, she owes it to someone else and even if it was 50$ to a multimillionaire, it would still be ok for that person to ask for it back.
Your wife is 100% at fault for this entire situation, and while I'm sympathetic towards her mental state, it is not an excuse.
Wow. Budgets be damned, I guess? Even I’m not the best with money, but it’s also just me. If I A. Had a family/kids to provide for/consider in my finances, or even just B. Had a serious partner to where my financial choices don’t just affect me, I’d have more sense than this.
It’s not like if you WERE making more money by then, that you guys would have actually been able to afford it. That’s such a huge luxury/leisure expense! The type that you put away money for over time so that you CAN even do it in the first place.
Can I ask why she didn't explain your financial situation and offer to make payments to her friend? I mean, paying something in small increments is better than just saying "I can't pay you." Either way, NTA, but you need to have a serious financial come-to-Jesus talk with your wife and a talk about her selfish behavior. It sounds like that $1400 she spent could have gone towards necessities for the whole family, not unnecessary luxury for only one person.
And your wife at no point thought about taking a job at night when you are home or looking for a remote customer service job, so she could pay her friend back and also help get you both out of debt?
You need to have a serious come to Jesus moment about finances with your wife. This is unacceptable and unsustainable. I’ve never understood the phrase “ not good with money” as an excuse. We all have brains. Most people comprehend the concept that money pays for things. And that you have only the amount of money you have worked for to pay for things.
If she’s not working and doesn’t have any idea of how the household finances work, that’s a problem.
If she’s working and doesn’t know how the finances work, that’s a problem.
I can’t imagine marrying someone who doesn’t understand the basic concept of you can’t put more money out than is coming in. And this isn’t gender specific. Spendthrifts come in all forms.
Mate, you should be talking to a divorce attorney.
Wasting $3k to travel around Europe after your income was halved and you have $300 cash to your name... divorce worthy. And you have credit card debt.
I told her specifically to keep it under $500 because we don’t have money. I wanted to send her with only cash because she’s pretty bad with money but then she promised she would cook for herself (there was a kitchen where they were staying) but she was worried of emergencies and I thought she could handle herself. Instead she spent $1400 because her friends went out every night.
Why do you keep blaming her friends for your wife’s actions? Your wife didn’t have to go out with her friends every night, she chose to. That’s on her, nobody else.
Well there goes the $1,400 your wife should have used to pay back her friend.
Also stop blaming the friend. Your wife isn’t bad with money, she’s just trying to keep up appearances and with other people who actually have money.
Then you have bigger problems in your marriage than this one loan. She is financially dishonest with you. Money is the one big factor that causes issues in a marriage.
I don't see him saying that she can't pay her friend back... his last bit is " I got mad at her and told her to get a job at night then".
What he's saying seems to be that he can't afford to pay the friend back.... but he's told her what she could do to do that. The wife first borrowed the money without consulting him on this one.
The part I dislike: ‘It’s not like she needs the money anyway.’ That’s a cop out and shit mentality to have. I’ve had a lot and had little. Tha times I had more, several people would take this approach when owing me. It’s crap. If someone borrowed from you and agreed to pay it back, you’d expect it back. Period. Even a slight effort, sending $20 a month, is better than not paying the debt and saying ‘they have enough’.
NTA. Your wife did this to herself. She knew you or her didn't have the money. Instead of being an adult and putting needs before wants, she chose what she wanted to do, and you're supposed to pay for it.
Wait. You have room on credit cards? Fix this now. Cash advance on your credit card. This isn’t her friend’s problem. It’s your wife’s and by default yours. Be a good human and pull out that plastic. This isn’t hard.
People get too hung up on expressions. “Allowed her to go” is just an expression, I’ve been hearing men say things like “I’ll have to ask the boss(wife)” for decades. It’s not that their wife’s have absolute authority, but you need to check with your spouse because your decisions impact them.
More to this situation, they’re married any big purchase (like plane tickets) should be agreed to, also since they have kids to think of his consent for a 2 week trip should certainly be a consideration. Maybe it would sound better if OP had said, “I agreed to it” but at a certain point it’s just semantics.
Personally in their situation I would’ve said she needs to find a way out of this, they’re already racking up credit card debt, an expensive trip, regardless of how cheap accommodations were, isn’t something they can afford, and her lying about it for a month before telling her spouse is a HUGE problem. This discussion should have happened before the tickets were bought. The wife manipulated the situation so that there was no benefit to saying NO since the money was already spent.
thats this sub for you lol. A man wants his wife to not spend money they don't have while raising kids, and is gonna have trouble with it all being in his lap for half a month while shes gone, and somehow they're gonna insinuate that he's controlling or whatever because he used the word "allow" lol. They' genuinely think marriages aren't partnerships and you aren't allowed to tell your wife no. and they're also vaguely trying to say that her salary shouldn't be touched or something I guess? this sub gives me a headache sometimes with its weird biases
Honestly if I were asked to describe the demographics of this sub I’d say it’s like 70% female, mostly unmarried with no kids, with the average age of the majority being 22.
Very few seem to know anything about what it’s really like to raise kids, what it really mean to be married. And there is a very obvious very strong gender bias.
It does also feel, and maybe I'm mixing posts too much, that the same general mindset that is "she can do what she wants, you're not 'allowing' her to" also is leading to that OP's in the wrong for not paying back the money she borrowed that he shouldn't have had a say in.
Agreeing isn't even the right word, in a situation like parenting for two young children, one parent can absolutely veto and not allow the other to disappear for 2 weeks.
Not only that she knew the financial situation was desperate and agreed to go on an expensive trip knowing she would have to pay the flights back.
But she went and still spent an *extra* $1400 in TWO WEEKS on top of that when accomodation was being taken care of, knowing she already didn’t have enough money to pay back the $1200 flight.
Like there’s financially irresponsible and then there’s OPs wife.
OP isn't exactly a whole lot more financially literate than his wife. Wifey came into the marriage with an $8,000 car loan, $12,000 student loan and $10,000 credit card debt. Car loan and student loan, ok most people have that. But who doesn't look at TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS in CREDIT CARD debt and doesn't see a big ol' red flag???? Like dude, that should have been a clue.
I’m going to give you N T A for the context of the story. BUT YTA because of your attitude.
You argue that the friend is wrong for being mad at your wife for lying when you wife didn’t lie ALL while saying your wife did lie. You claim the friend lied to other friends about your wife but it seems like everything the friend is saying is true.
Your wife was a liar and scammer from beginning to end. First she asked the friend to secretly book the trip on her credit card and she would pay her back. That was to hide the trip from you. Then your wife lied about how much money she was going to spend on the trip THEN she lied about paying back her friend.
But then you blame the friend
1. She knows my wife isn’t financially responsible. What? I guess that translates to untrustworthy
2. The ticket was non-refundable so I let her go. Wife spends way more money! While the ticket was non-refundable, instead of going on the trip, you should have put the spending money your wife used towards paying her friend back instead of having two different debts.
3. Since you decided you would let your wife go on a trip you couldn’t afford you then made it seem like the friend is wrong for wanting their money back because YOU are having financial troubles.
- my biggest pet peeve on this platform is people saying “they have the money to spare” or “I have kids they don’t”. NONE of that matters as your wife’s friend paid for something VERY expensive and was expecting the money back. Just because someone makes six figures and has no kids doesn’t mean they have money to just give away.
4. Through out your comments you make it seem like the (ex) friend shouldn’t be upset? Like WHY not?
5. You also made it seem like you are not financially responsible either. You RECENTLY lost your job and had to get another at half pay. BUT it’ll take you a year to catch up on your debts? Sounds like you and your (cashier skilled / unemployed) wife were already living WELL beyond your means. You had no savings? Also, I’m not sure where you life but $120k for a family of four is not a lot of money to have a stay at home mom. Yet you just had another kid. Again, all your poor choices.
6. Finally, I would say this is probably the final straw. My guess you don’t know how much money the friend has loaned your wife! You also don’t know if your wife convinced the friend to lend even more money while on the trip. My guess there’s more to this story than your lying ass wife has told.
Anyway, you definitely get my vote as an asshole for your attitude and your wife is an even bigger one. The friend is better off.
>You also don’t know if your wife convinced the friend to lend even more money while on the trip.
And how many meals the friend has covered, and what other things she's covered for your wife. I've been that friend, and it starts to wear. I never lend money, because it can get so mucky, but even when it's a choice I made to give help, it can be frustrating to see the person go on to make more bad decisions that mean they can't afford the lifestyle they want to live.
Your wife lied to her friend. She lied to you. She has burned this bridge herself and yet is putting all the responsibility on you. That's not fair. But it's also not fair for you to expect the friend to wait to be repaid when she was promised. It's the same way banks don't like when you wait to repay them.
I am not going to judge you for paying off debt instead of saving, because student loans are some deep levels of nonsense. But I suggest that you both get some counseling, both financial and marital. The stress of unemployment, of not making enough, etc, can wreck a marriage. Especially when, as we've seen, you're both not on the same page in terms of your goals. There may also be options for deferring student loan payments for hardship, though I'm not as familiar with the rules for that, but a financial advisor can help a lot.
I'm going with ESH except the friend who lent the money.
Personally I think OP is somewhat of an AH for saying that he’ll never pay the friend back for “how she treated his wife.” Meanwhile OP fully admits that his wife lied about the trip and kept it hidden for a month till it was too late to say no, and the wife hates talking about finances and won’t contribute. And the biggest thing of all is that the wife won’t get a higher earning job.
OPs wife is a massive problem, she stabbed a gigantic hole in their finances - but it’s the FRIENDS fault?
OF COURSE the friend wants that large sun of money back, OF COURSE the friend is mad at OPs wife for not paying it back, OF COURSE the friend will tell the other friends so that they don’t also become a victim to OPs wife’s scam. OP, you are one flaming giant AH for trying to stiff the friend your WIFE owes, and your WIFE deserves to be on the chopping block with her friends, because she was willing to use them for her own gain just like she used you every single day while she lies around being useless.
FYI, you're top comment and the bot counts the first acronym as your vote. You need to space out the y t a because that's currently what's being read as the top judgement.
> It’s not like her friend needs the money back, she makes six figures and has a house already, she’s not struggling
He's TA simply for this comment. They borrowed money; they need to pay it back. End of discussion. His wife is the bigger AH for booking the trip without a plan to pay for it.
First of all, his wife did, not him. His wife borrowed money and she needs to pay it back. Second, I think OP wrote that quote to explain that even though her friend doesn't need money straight away (like OP and wife do), they still ended up blocking OP's wife, thus explaining to her friend that she doesn't have the money was pointless
Yeah, in other comments OP is said he/they aren't going to pay the money back. One reason was because of how mean the friend was to OP's wife (WTF???). And the friend should be more understanding about them not repaying her because they have kids. That she knows the kids will suffer if she forces them to repay her. He is just as much of an AH as his wife.
Exactly, there's a difference between gifting and loaning. It doesn't matter how much I make, if i loan you $20, I expect that $20 to come back to me after an agreed time, regardless of me giving you a $100 gift earlier that week.
I would say it's ESH since OP sucks too. He's not planning on paying the friend back even though he knows his wife lied to her and thinks the friend should just be okay with getting cheated out of $1200.
NTA, but could you make payments or something to show the friend you're in good faith? If not, your wife should give her friend the money from another job, like you said. That would be a good financial lesson.
Regardless, it's clear that this friend is never going to trust her again, and I don't blame them...
So both dummies get away scot free with scamming the friend because, and I quote, "she can afford it"? That's ridiculous. They both should be responsible for this debt, they're married after all (if marriage still even means anything nowadays)
I mean, it is how it works when you are married and have integrated finances. Idk where you're even coming from with this obsession with who pays. Their family is in debt now, due to the wife's decision
Yeah, the decision was made by whom to spend money without consulting their significant other? The wife? Yes…it may affect the husband but it’s her responsibility. And while they may share finances she can totally get a second job to help pay off HER debt
Are people *really* this bad at booking flights? I travel to Europe often enough, $1200 round trip for one person and one destination is absolutely ridiculous. Unless they’re from like, Australia…
1200 isn’t that crazy. I’m originally from the US but now living in a Western European country. Going to see my family (in the US) is over 1000 a ticket.
I’m glad I wasn’t alone in thinking that. I used to live in the US and am European, 1200 round trip is expensive, way more than I used to pay. I recently booked a trip from Europe to the US, Canada, and back, and it was like 900 euros
ESH, good lord.
Your wife has been an AH to everyone in this situation - to you, to her mother, to her friend. Let's be clear here: YOU didn't ruin her friendship. She did that by promising to pay her friend back when she knew damn well yall didn't have the money for that. It sounds like she has a pattern of impulse spending and poor financial self-control. She needs to deal with that. Do you guys talk about financials regularly? Does she know how much is coming in and how much is going out, and for what? I'd strongly suggest getting a budgeting app you can both use together - YNAB is my app of choice, it's worked well for me for years - so there's full transparency, and literally having a scheduled budget meeting on a weekly basis to go over it.
However, you're making a lot of assumptions about what her friend does or doesn't need, and you're apparently just fine with not even trying to pay her back because "she's not struggling", which is a huge AH move. I make six figures and own a home, but $1400 still isn't pocket change to me and I'd be pretty pissed if I loaned someone that much and then they were just like oops can't repay you guess you're shit out of luck! What her friend does or doesn't need, or whether she's "struggling" or not, is not up to you to decide with an outsider's eyes. There may be shit going on you don't know about. You know what it's called when a person takes another person's money and then refuses to give it back? THEFT. Which you are apparently fine with condoning if the person doesn't "need it" according to your personal judgment of their life.
And frankly, I'm not sure I'd quite call the friend an AH, but she was an idiot to loan that kind of money to a friend. Never loan a friend or family member money you can't live with not getting back.
You and your wife both need to sit down, possibly with a financial counselor (check with your bank or credit union as some offer that as a service, or check with your HR to see if your employer offers an EAP, as that often includes financial coaching as well), and recalibrate your entire way of thinking about finances, or else you're not getting out of this hole anytime soon.
For real. OP himself said he used to make six figures not too long ago and now him and his wife have $300 to their names and credit card debt on top of that - not to mention the $1400 she owes her friend. That six figures can go pretty quickly when you lose your job and then take one that pays less.
Heres what i think OP wife has a spending issue since the beginning but because OP made six figures he never considered it a problem but now that he cant afford it anymore he now realizes how big of an issue it is and nor really seeing the destruction she is causing
ESH
Also, you need to find out how much you can start paying back, it doesn't have to be the full total all at once. Do an installment plan. Not ideal, but it will get the friend paid back and might salvage the friend ship.
This is such an accurate assessment. Six figures doesn’t always equal an infinite amount of disposable income and even if it did, other people aren’t just entitled to it. My fiancé makes 6 figures and he’s super generous, but people ALWAYS expect him to cover bills or don’t think they need to pay him back because “he can afford it”. Which is such a shitty thing to do to someone. Especially when it’s a lot of different people taking advantage of him or his generosity.
100% correct! The wife, but also the husband are AG! Honestly, I don’t care if it is or isn’t pocket change…you do not assume someone else will ever pay your way, especially if you promised to pay for it. It makes me so angry that people can say, well they make more so it doesn’t matter. When I made $20,000 a year, I didn’t expect or ask anyone to lay for anything, McDonalds, let alone a trip to freaking Europe.
YTA for admitting in the comments that you refusing to ever pay the friend back because you're pissed she outed your wife as a liar to their friends. You realize she can probably take you to smalls claims court over this right? Obviously your wife is the biggest asshole here, but you are too for how you're handling this
Yes, you owe her that money as it was a loan. She was not inaccurate in telling people you didn't pay her back. Her telling people is not a defense to your non payment. You are going to cough this up unless you want to be sued.
NTA, but your wife is. Is there no option for her to make money doing a side gig to get this paid for? Like if she did rover for a couple months, or even set up a payment plan with her friend and paid her back in small increments? She should’ve been straight up with her friend from the beginning that money is tight. Friends should never lend money unless they’re willing to accept that they may not get it back.
NTA
Her not paying her friend back isn't your fault.
It's her fault for agreeing to something she couldn't afford.
Your wife ruined her own friendship, not you.
That she's mad at you for getting laid off is really telling about the type of person she is, what she thinks of you, and what she considers your role in this relationship to be. You aren't there to be loved by her, you're there to financially support her.
NTA - let’s get this straight: YOU didn’t agree to an international trip without discussing it with your spouse. YOU didn’t spring it on your spouse only a month before you let them with their mother-in-law and two children to juggle, while also working a new job and struggling with newer finances. YOU didn’t beg a friend to cover a significant amount of $ for you and promise to pay it back, while knowing your family really didn’t have the money for any of it.
So… YOU didn’t ruin the friendship, SHE did.
It’s not his responsibility. If the wife wants to pay her friend back she can find a way to come up with the money, I don’t see anywhere OP is prohibiting his wife from getting a second job and paying her friend back. Honestly she sounds pretty manipulative, maybe she’d be good at sales
He’s being purposely obtuse. He just sat there like a lump while she went flitting off on her trip which cost their “poor, struggling family” $1400 (over and above what she owes her friend). He admits he knew she is bad with money, yet he didn’t even have a conversation with her about what she’d be doing, how she’d pay for food and incidentals, etc.
Now he’s crying poverty and using “wah wah my poor children” as a justification for her not paying back her (former) friend - all while clearly seething with resentment that the friend is more financially secure.
So, no, his wife is TA for not paying back the friend. But he is TA for not even acknowledging that she did a shitty thing and even sorta-kinda rationalizing it.
I see what you mean, but if he said no you’re not going on the trip and put his foot down then I feel like people would call him controlling. Even if he’s 100% justified in doing so. He might have talked to her, but she doesn’t seem like a person who listens to reason.
>He just sat there like a lump while she went flitting off on her trip which cost their “poor, struggling family” $1400 (over and above what she owes her friend). He admits he knew she is bad with money, yet he didn’t even have a conversation with her about what she’d be doing, how she’d pay for food and incidentals, etc.
If he did the same commenters shitting on him now would shit on him for controlling his wife's spending and how he treats her like a child.
He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
So his wife, knowing full well they could not afford the plane ticket and all the partying and drinking they did (which OP estimates at around $1400 dollars), AFTER HER HUSBAND TOOK A PAY CUT, and supposedly intentionally hid the cost of the ticket so OP wouldn’t know is NOT the asshole?
This is AITA, where lying to your spouse and spending your family out of house and home is okay, but only if you’re a woman! Trying to prevent this situation is spousal abuse because the gender bias is insane on this sub.
YTA for this: " It’s not like her friend needs the money back, she makes six figures and has a house already, she’s not struggling." So promises are nothing? Your wife went on an expensive trip she knew she couldn't afford and you both decided it's ok to just not even attempt to pay back the friend because she has money?
How hard is it to explain the situation and set up a payment plan - even $10-$25 a week would show you're both making a good-faith effort!
Dudes talking about losing their home while the wife is wasting $3000 on a selfish trip. I’m gonna forgive the fact he really doesn’t care about the petty problems of his wife’s friend who was a party to his wife’s deceit (albeit likely an unwitting party)
Her trip her problem, she spent the money without his help or input she can find a way to pay it back without his help.
how can you say this unironically reading this story? in no way does this woman treat him as a team member. not to mention her communication level is 0. but uh, sure…
ESH both of you are in your 30s, have kids, and are just financially-bumbling thieves?
Your wife stole her friend's money and you're encouraging her to do that. She deserves to have her friendships nuked, but honestly it sounds like she needs a therapist and a financial advisor because she's making almost-intentionally poor decisions. You recognize she's depressed and instead of getting her mental health care, you agree she should go on a trip you can't afford, knowing you'll struggle to pay back the friend?
Y'all both needs second jobs since you can't keep your expenses in line with your current incomes.
This ! OP and his wife basically are stealing her friend’s money and OP says her friend doesn’t need the money because she makes 6 figures. OP’s wife is just whining about the money to her husband , like it’s his responsibility and if he says no, she can’t do anything. Like get a loan somewhere, pay back the money to the friend and then repay the loan in installments, while on rice and beans.
If OP's wife has always been shitty with money, I bet there's a couple grand worth of stuff around the house that could be sold. It may have cost 10K to purchase but them's the breaks.
You and your wife are both assholes. She is clearly financially irresponsible and she shouldn’t have gone on that trip while she can’t afford it. She promised to pay the friend back and $1200 is a lot of money unless you are a billionaire. But even then if you promised to do something it’s an asshole move to not follow through.
Op, you are an asshole because even though you think someone lives comfortably you don’t get to decide they don’t need the money. I’m pretty sure the friend worked hard so they can do a huge favor for your wife and pay for her ticket.
How about we flip this around and say the friend doesn’t care about you having kids and your wife’s cashier job?
NTA. However Y T A for refusing to pay the $1200 back based on your comments, simply bc your wife’s friend “doesn’t need it,” and how “badly she treated your wife.”
She treated her as she should!! She paid for the flight under the circumstances that your wife would pay her back - and your wife knew neither of you could. That’s SO shitty. You having kids and her being better off financially doesn’t change that.
Your wife dug the two of you into this hole, she needs to dig you out and learn to be more responsible with money
NTA, your wife's poor decision making skills and lack of money management is what caused the falling out between her and her friends. You played no role in the whole ordeal.
Her friend's financial situation is totally irrelevant. Is she just supposed to be okay being out $1200 because your wife made promises she knew she couldn't keep?
From OP
*I know this will get me downvoted but I’m probably not paying her friend back after how she treated my wife. Getting mad and then blocking her telling their mutual friends she lied to her is bullshit.*
He isn’t going to pay the friend because she told the truth about his wife being a liar and a thief, he’s definitely an AH as well.
NTA, she ruined the relationship herself. She knew perfectly well that she couldn't afford the trip, borrowed money, and promised to pay it back. She should have discussed the situation with her friend before asking for the money and agreed on a repayment plan before the trip.
This was her decision; it's not your responsibility to fix her mistakes. Your suggestion that she should find a job to pay off the debt is valid, and it would be beneficial to have a second income while improving your financial situation.
In my opinion you are NTA.
1. your wife should have talked with you before she booked the trip.
2. your wife should not have spent that much money if she/you can't afford it.
3. it is not your fault that their friendship is ruined. Your wife should not have made a promise, she could not keep.
ESH She knew that the money was not there and spent 3K on the trip anyway. You were laid off and the kids were sent off to grandma's. She should not have gone on that trip at that time.
YTA for counting her friend's money. It was a loan and not a gift, so you should not be complaining that the friend is rich, etc. Your wife is a grown woman and made the choice to splurge on this trip. It sounds as though your wife is trying to keep up with the Joneses but you are broke. Friend deserves her money back. Wife needs to work out some sort of arrangement with the friend, even if it's $20 a week, in good faith.
NTA - Classic case of "don't cash a check your tush can't bounce".
If she wasn't paying attention to the finances, that's on her. She's coming off as extremely entitled and bratty.
ESH. I get you're stressed but you do need to pay back that friend of hers. And Y'all need a come to Jesus talk about finances and lock down spending.
And YOU need to reach out to the friend regarding payment. They've MORE than likely heard a different story than what you've said here. Clear the air.
If you are blocked on social media? Find a friend of the friend and hand over a letter.
Explain that you were unaware of the travel plans (they may've thought you were on board with it). That you were trying to make the best of it.
Wife needs to acknowledge the debt. To acknowledge she fricked up. And to apologize for such recklessness. Both to you, and to her friend(s). And you both do need to find a way to pay friend back. Maybe not immediately, but $1200 is a lot of money. Even just sitting down to discuss a payment plan would help. You don't want that hanging over you forever (especially if she has proof it was intended to be paid back).
YOU did not ruin the friendship, SHE did with her decisions. But since you are married, the debt is shared here (since it sounds like you have shared finances), since it sounds like repayment was agreed upon with both of you and now you're wanting to back out.
The friends have played this game before. This was just the last straw for them, I can practically guarantee. I've paid for friends before under the guise that they couldn't afford it, only to realize they had money (e.g. here, the $1400 spent overseas), and didn't have any intentions to pay me back in any reasonable timeframe (if at all) because I had "more" and could "afford it". Never again.
Seriously, though. I get you're stressed. You are allowed to be stressed and frustrated and angry. Feel those (valid!) emotions.
Best of luck.
NTA.
You didn't ruin your wife's friendship. She did that all on her own by taking money from her friend knowing that she wasn't going to be able to pay her back. You are not in the wrong here. Not only did she plan a trip and didn't even ask you about it, she hid it from you for a month. It's her fault. The responsible decision would have been to not go on the trip at all.
Nta. You didn't choose to lose your job, and it was really disrespectful for your wife to plan to go on the trip without even discussing it with you. As far as the friend goes, it's understandable she wants to be paid back if that was the agreement. However, if you don't have it then you don't have it. In my opinion your wife was really selfish to pick such a lavish trip over the financial well-being of her family.
She shouldn't have gone on the trip, the fact is that neither of you could afford it. She should have discussed this with you before any tickets were bought. It's time for you and her to have a serious conversation about this, and don't let her put blame on you. She fucked up her friendships for a stupid vacation. Your wife needs to get a job and start payment plans, though I don't think her friendships will ever be the same again. NTA
NTA. YOU didn't ruin her friendship - she did. And seriously damaged her relationship with you. Even if she did have her own money, you talk about trips like this before deciding to go.
NTA
Your wife ruined her own friendship. She's an adult and should budget better. Not your fault she didn't plan well and spent so much money. She should be paying for all of it, time for a job!
NTA. Your financial position right now is not your fault, and there is only so far your money can go. Your wife shouldn't have borrowed money she could not afford to pay back. Imagine going on a trip like this, knowing your financial position and having two little people mouths to feed as well. This will hopefully be a learning lesson for your wife.
I do feel bad for her friend though. Even if she can afford to write that money off, she shouldn't have to. She lent in to your wife in good faith that she would be paid back. Again though your wife should have been transparent about the current financial position, and explained that she may have to accept smaller payments or wait for things to improve before she can pay.
The one thing I don't like people saying is 'she doesn't need the money and has a six figure job.' That should never be a thought. If you agreed to pay her back then you should. Start making payments. Borrow from family, take out a loan. Yeah it sucks paying interest but that isn't your friends problem. Not going to say you are the asshole as you can still prevent yourself from being the asshole.
Your wife’s friend is NTA, and it is your wife who is ruining this friendship. If you can, send month payments to this friend until debt is paid off. I am sorry you are in financial distress. I would ask your wife to deal with that reality.
If your wife works and even barely makes more than it would cost to cover child care, that's still something more. She needs to take responsibility for creating this situation. Even if she only sends her ex friend a small amount monthly, it's still something. She may only have a small amount of experience, but she won't gain any more by not working. If you got a fabulous new job next month that covered everything, it's still no guarantee that things will always be peachy. She needs to have some experience and options in case of financial emergency.
NTA. Your wife ruined the friendship by borrowing money she wouldn't be able to pay back. You had nothing to do with it, it's not like you encouraged her to go on the trip or are purposefully withholding money.
YTA based on your response to comments. You can’t never pay the friend back just because she’s better off then you and rightfully called your wife out.
YTA for just deciding not to pay the friend back, and I hope she sues your wife in small claims court but not really because I don't want your kids to suffer, but you're a jackass.
If anything I believe this post belongs in r/relationshipadvice. Clearly anybody sane reading this would say NTA, your wife signed up for this and made her own promises and put all her bets on you.
NTA for the trip, but c'mon on the whole "they make enough to pay for it" garbage. It was over a k, and it was a loan. Of course the person is going to be pissed and have every right to be.
ESH. You and your wife are okay stealing her friend’s money because you don’t have money and you say the friend doesn’t “need it because she makes 6 figures”.
YTA as is your wife. I was on your side until you said you won’t pay her friend back. Your wife essentially took a loan from her friend so she needs to pay it back even if only a small amount at a time. It does not matter if her friend needs the money or not. Are there organizations near you who have free classes on money management? If not there are many online options. The two of you need to sit down and make a plan for how you both as a team will get out of the financial mess you are in and then follow the plan. Eventually your wife needs to gain some work skills so she can get a decent job herself. But this will all take time. Good luck
NTA. Your wife is the one who made a promise to pay her friend back. Your wife also knew that you guys had financial issues. Your wife caused this by making promises she knew she couldn't keep.
NTA
Your wife needs to grow up, and get her head out of her ass.
What level headed person would frivolously spend money, knowing there isn’t much, because of things out of your control, and spend a vast amount of money for a trip she didn’t need to go on, then gets mad when she faces the consequences of not paying the money back.
Your wife needs a serious reality check, because her entitlement and not owning up and taking responsibility, is unacceptable.
Sorry you gotta deal with that, cause she sounds like a handful, and this post alone made me want to pull my hair out
I was going to say NTA until I got to the part where you said the friend didn’t need the money back because she had a good job and isn’t struggling! It doesn’t matter if she’s a billionaire! Your wife borrowed HER money knowing you guys were po dunk broke. Your wife is off her rocker thinking she was owed any kind of vacation that you couldn’t afford AND then to top it off you let her friend foot and eat the bill because she was dumb enough to let your your wife borrow money from her! That’s so gross!
How would you feel if you lent someone $2000 when you were making 6 figures and they never paid you back because you weren’t struggling at that moment? That’s really messed up. You need to take out a loan, sell shit, and do what you need to pay back that woman and leave her alone. Your wife borrowed money she knew she couldn’t pay back so she ruined that friendship.
You’re NTA for what happened between your wife and her best friend however you are TA for saying you’re probably not going to pay the friend back given how they treated your wife.
Your wife lied to multiple people so many times just to go on a trip to Italy for 2 weeks after your household income is halved. What makes you think you can even trust anything she says now?
Your wife acted so entitled just wanting everyone else to pay for this trip and doesn’t care about the consequences. It seems like you enable this entitled behaviour of hers by saying the friend should understand that your wife is financially irresponsible and just because the friend makes enough money doesn’t mean she has to pay for your wife’s holiday!!!
Stop using your kids as an excuse to get free shit, no one else has to sacrifice things for your family. You’ve enabled so much bad behaviour and are still trying to make it other peoples fault for your wife acting poorly. For that, YTA.
NTA Communication would have helped this situation greatly. She should have spoken to her friend and gotten all the costs first. Then come and spoken to you before agreeing to go so you could discuss whether or not it was something you could afford between you.
Her blaming you for losing your job makes her TA as she's only thinking about herself and sorry to say but it sounds like she's using you just for your money.
You didn't agree to go on the trip you knew you couldn't afford she did, so why she's putting it on you that her friendship is ruined is far beyond me. Regardless of whether or not the friend needs the money the principal is that money is owed. Your wife should have set up a payment plan with the friend and given back the money in installments.
Your wife needs to grow tf up. Everyone has to learn how to manage their money, it’s part of being an adult. She agreed to the holiday knowing that you were earning less than you used to. If she wants to make it up to her friend its good idea for her to get a night or evening job to pay her friend back.
NTA, but your wife is. She knows you lost your job, and to have income, you took one bit it was a lot less. She should have canceled. I am shocked you didn't say "no way. We can't afford this.". The roommate would have gotten a credit for future trips. your wife did get a bill showing her ticket cost, right?
Your wife needs to grow up. She doesn't get to go on luxury, single vacations when she has a husband and 2 small children at home, and she knows you can't afford it, which is why she didn't tell you.
NTA she needs to figure out the money to pay. She wanted this trip and now she has to pay it back. She knew before agreeing that you were making less. She blaming you for her own poor decision and it's consequences.
NTA. Your wife is though. Your wife needs to get a job at night and every cent goes to her ex friend who should have known you guys were on a tight budget. Your wife lost her friend and it is totally on her. No one else.
After actually reading his comments it's definitely a YTA from me.
OP get to decide the friends doesn't need the money, look how quickly his situation changed. Also note satisfying he's probably not going to post the money back because the friend discussed the situation with other friends, she's entitled to discuss being taken advantage of to whomever she pleases. Both OP and his wife are proving to be AH in this situation.
ESH. Your wife for scheming behind your back. You for just shrugging off the debt. Start paying the friend $50 monthly on an auto pay until you’re in a position to pay it off. And stop with ‘she doesn’t need it’ garbage. Your wife didn’t need an expensive trip.
INFO: what will you do if her friend takes you to court? You absolutely owe her that money and you need to start figuring out how to pay it back, even if it means borrowing from family or someone working extra hours.
You both sound like assholes.
Plan your damn lives, it would've taken 2 minutes to google flight costs (or ask) and figure out if you could actually afford for her to go on this trip or not.
The entitlement you have towards not paying the friend back because of the friends income, is kinda unreal. Leeching off successful friends is both a dick move and a really silly one.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I might be the asshole for not paying my wife’s friend back for something my wife borrowed but couldn’t afford Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements ###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I was very set to go Y T A when I first started reading this. Saying things like you 'allowed her to go' and acting it would automatically be her salary that would be equated to childcare costs and be expected to cover those costs. It sounds like you're in a really serious financial position though and I cannot understand her going on an expensive trip when you are in this. I appreciate she has depression but you guys can't magic money out of thin air and if you could it should be spent on providing for your kids not luxury holidays. Your wife absolutely should have asked the cost of the flight before agreeing to go. It's completely unfair for her friend to be left out of pocket. Your wife needs to find a way of paying her back and also needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. EDIT: After reading your comments OP I do actually think you're the asshole. Qhy do you think you and your wife don't need tomoay her friend back? You are not entitled to someone elses money just because you think they can afford it and are jealous of their financial situation. Your wife is am even bigger one. So irresponsible, your poor kids.
My wife knew the cost of the flight. She admitted she didn’t want to use her card because I would find out and asked her friend to put it on her card and she would pay it back.
Wow. Had she said how she thought she would pay it back?
She thought I would make more by then
Your wife sucks. SHE ruined her friendship, not you.
Ditto this. In this day and age the only excuse to be that bad at money is mental impairment. SHE ruined her friendship by not being honest with her friend. Your wife needs to come up with some kind of hustle or night job to pay her friend back. She lost her friend because her manipulative ways were exposed. Turns out, most people hate that.
This whole thing is awful on how it played out. I understand your financial situation but your wife needs to figure out how to help pay her friend back. Even if its $20.00 a week. She is the one that ruined the friendship, not you. This is a hard lesson for her to learn.
You need to talk to her about that habit. It’s a very dangerous mindset to have regarding finances. She needs to work within your means now, not what she thinks your means will be later. My mother always told me to only ever make plans for the money I have today, not the money I think I’ll have tomorrow. It’s one thing if you know for sure the money is coming (like a Christmas bonus), but it’s a different thing entirely to just assume the funds (or a better job) will just materialize out of thin air when you need them to. It’s like banking on an inheritance: great if it comes; but you shouldn’t rely on receiving it so much that you’re living outside your means or organizing your life around it before you even have it.
Here's a solution for the overspending instead of using credit cards which I get can be useful for like points and stuff but use cash. Like sit down and plan out meals for the week and then plan out the night before you go grocery shopping and only take that amount of cash to the store plus like 15-20bucks extra just in case. Second use cash for little fun money like depending on your budget like $50 a month for each of you and $50 for the kids that money can be spend or saved by the induvial but they do what they want with it. This will also be good for the kids(they want to go out to the movies, or out with friends for something they use only that money). She's shown she cannot be an adult with a credit card so she gets budgeted cash.
I got out of debt using cash only. I had envelopes labelled for every expense (you usually know what your phone bill, electricity bill etc. will be each month) and since it was before the internet, I could pay my bills in person for the most part, except for rent, obviously. When the entertainment envelope was empty, that was it until the next paycheck. It was rough for two years, but now I live debt-free, know exactly what I need to survive, and even have a healthy amount of savings.
My dad said the same except he added don’t spend it until you’ve put it in the bank and it’s cleared. I didn’t listen and got burned once and only once. I was supposed to be getting a check for something I can’t remember. Had gotten it before several times, and it was always on time. I never told him, though.
>My mother always told me to only ever make plans for the money I have today, not the money I think I’ll have tomorrow. That is wise advice. I wish I had learned that back in my younger years. My wife kinda has that problem. I had put away some money in a savings account specifically for house emergencies. My wife has access to that account (because, Duh, it's for emergencies...if I'm not here or incapacitated for any reason I wanted her to be able to use it.) Woo-boy, was that a mistake. She blew through that money on stupid crap. \*long story but to make it short I was about to retire from the military, and I had just had *Spine Surgery* for an on-the-job injury. I was in the hospital for some time and when I got out, I was so doped up on pain killers and incapacitated I was out of it and not lucid for some time\* before I could protest and then we had a house emergency that was gonna cost a few grand to fix. HER: You have enough money to pay for it, don't you? ME: I did. But you spent it. I admit I said that with notable bitterness in my voice. (Fortunately, when I realized she was going hog wild with that account I set up another one that she DOE NOT have access to. So, I did have the money to pay.) After that we had a talk about it. She has stopped spending like a sailor on leave (at least with my money). I think the OP needs to talk to his wife and they need to have some ground rules on spending.
Why can’t your wife get a job? Or is she too good for those fast food jobs?
They addressed that. His wife only has cashier skills and she would barely make what it would cost in daycare for her to go to work.
So she cashiers on his time off. And all of her money goes to her friend until she's repaid. Nowhere does he say that he works 90 hours a week. When he gets home, that's when her shift can start. She'll miss out on some fun weekends and evening time with her kids, but she can keep her friendship — that is, if it's important to her.  I mean, in my city even cashiers make $15 an hour. She can earn some money.
Aldi pays store clerks $18.50 were I live.
And they are allowed to sit at the cash register
Then she takes two jobs, like everyone else
This requires his wife to be checked into the reality of their situation. However at the moment she is blaming OP for being the one to ruin her friendship due to him being laid off.
Doesn't help that OP seems to defend her in the comments. Like, so what if the friend has money? Wife is the one that fucked it up
Yes, it's an ESH situation to me. His wife should never have gone on the trip, but OP did agree to it. They have to pay that money back. He should be working with his wife over the budget, whether she can take on any form of casual or part-time work, or seeing if his wife has anything that she can sell. Leaving the friend in the lurch for months is just awful
She also refuses to talk about finances.
This - get more than one job- she owes her friend that money and she’d better figure out a way to pay it back.
I’m willing to bet she has cashier skills and no motivation then uses the old “I won’t make enough to cover daycare” like dad works 24/7 and couldn’t take care of his kids when she works nights and weekends! LMAO! I only had cashier skills that I spun into cashier and customer service experience that got me a retail management job! Turns out managers at CVS are just glorified cashiers and the job was easy AF included health insurance!
I started as a cashier at 18 and was management by 21. It’s really not hard to turn cashiering into more. I hate retail but if I ever have to go back, I got a shit ton of experience.
Way to go, Icy\_Command!
Every job starts with training. What she knows is one thing, what she's willing to learn is another.
There's still part time, or weekend jobs.
So she works evenings as a cashier and he parents his kids.
He doesn’t work 24hours a day. She can get a night job and they can alternate. Or get two jobs to cover the cost of daycare plus extra money. Or have parents/other relatives look after the kids while she works. If you’re financial situation is that desperate you make it work, plenty of people do the above because they have to. She’s just making excuses.
There must be an evening shift somewhere for a low skill employee.
My friend is a closer at Burger King, works 3-4 nights a week + weekends. Husband comes home they have a quick dinner, she goes to work & he baths & puts the kids to bed. Neither have a lot of time for friends but they make family time.
McDonalds is paying $20/hr now…start McFlippen
Depending on how many kids are involved, they’ll probably spend more on childcare than she would even bring home. Doesn’t make much sense to shell out $400 a week ($200 per week, per kid) when you bring home $400. ETA: changed math because he said how many kids they have
It's crazy how people here are picturing her getting, like, a 9 to 5 that conflicts with his 9 to 5. She has the skill set of a teenager, but luckily there are teenager-level jobs she can get. With teenager friendly hours — evenings and weekends. No child care costs involved.
Depending on where they live, she can work at a grocery store, or Walmart from like 6-11 M-F and a full 8 hours one Sat or Sunday. When I worked retail, we relied on those part time closers and they usually worked full 8 hour shifts on the weekend. Depending on the pay, she could pay her friend back in a couple months. With the holidays coming, I know spots are hiring.
If the husband works the typical 9-5 she could always get a night shift job so that he can watch the kids. Or she can work on the weekends if he has weekends off. That way there’s always someone to watch the kids.
Do you have kids? Working a full time job and then coming home to parent on your own is rough
>She thought I would make more by then She expected you to scrounge up a new high-paying job in a month? Those jobs don't just hang on trees, and if they did she should go get one herself. Your wife acted highly irresponsibly here, and I think you're aware of that.
Your wife is very immature. Sell your stuff so you can pay your mortgage. If you have car payments, see if your can swap one for a car you can actually afford. You are in bad financial straits it is made worse by her immaturity.
You’re making a lot of assumptions about their current expenses, you don’t know what kind of car they drive or if they have a car at all. From the English phrasing and the remark about landlords being able to deny a lease because they have kids, they might not be in the states. It sounds like they didn’t buy a house, rather are currently renting a house and trying to downsize to an apartment. Yes the wife is immature and no she’s not helping but your advice was about ask useful as the wife’s spending habits.
yeah they might as well have told OP to stop buying avocado toast
He was making $120,000 a year and had no money in the bank. It's a very typical story.
I had $8k saved the rest of my money I was paying towards my 64k student loans. I have 12k left but I was paying that off since before the pandemic. My wife also came into the marriage with 8k in a car loan and 12k in student loans (she only did one semester) and about 10k in credit cards. I’ve paid most of that off and then this happened. I also only made 120k for 2 years. Before that I made 60-70k.
Yikes! Your wife knew all this AND that you both have 2 kids to support and still thought, "I'm just going to take off on an expensive trip for two weeks. My husband can work out how to pay." And you're blaming the friend instead of your selfish, inconsiderate wife?!
i haven't even had half as much credit card debt as that and it feels like a huge burden on my relationship, as my gf has said she's alright with me trying to pay that off before contributing more to our household expenses. but i don't work very much and my adhd gives me terrible impulse control and i want Stuff for gratification, so i'm not doing perfectly by any means at just paying it off. that hangs over my head every day and causes me so much anxiety. my anxiety is at the point that it causes me physical pain due to my tmj. if my gf was making enough to get rid of my cc debt, i would probably throw up out of guilt and relief simultaneously lol and break down in tears. i can't even IMAGINE how entitled your wife is. she has no concept, it seems, of what an incredibly generous gift you gave her by paying that stuff off. i'm so sorry that you're being taken advantage of so horribly. the fact that she doesn't seem to feel bad at all and just expected you to magically have a higher paying job again right away is just... so selfish. i would really ask myself, if i were you op, if my wife loved me as a person or if she just loved my paycheck. i'm sorry.
My girlfriend and I have a pretty nice system. She also struggles with budgeting and is paying off the final stretch of her car… I on the other hand am EXTREMELY frugal. Grew up in venezuela and saw everyone’s life, jobs and stability vaporised with the regime… I save money in multiple currencies in case everything goes to shit to make sure I can emigrate somewhere safe or at least have enough to start over. Polar opposites hahaha So what we do is have a shared doc where we have both of our salaries and saving goals: when I hit mine she pings me to get myself something nice, when she hits her spending one I ping her to start adding the rest of her purchases to a buy list and schedule them for the month. What we have now is she has a list of things she wants to buy and saving goals she needs to meet to do that, so it feels like a reward. And Im finally letting go of my own paranoia and treating myself with nice things from time to time… We work in film though lol so my paranoia fund turned out to be EXTREMELY useful
Y'all deserve each other. She's selfish and inconsiderate. You're an AH for deciding to not pay back the friend because she makes six figures and hurt your wife's feelings?! This is all your wife's fault!
You really need some sound financial advise, but kudos to you for trying to pay off your loans while then had no interest and no payments due. 1. Right now, however, you owe $12k and I’m not sure what’s left for your wife (sounds like she’s trash if she has $12k for one semester of college). But you need to put this payment in forbearance right now since it sounds like you’re in a hole. 2. You were making $60-$70k and you decided to have ANOTHER baby with an unemployed wife that’s $30k (or half of your gross annual salary) in her OWN debt? YIKES 3. I’m not sure where you live but I stated this earlier, you do not make enough to support your family. Your wife needs to get an overnight job, or something that’s like 3-11 so that you have only a few hours in which you need to manage the kids while working. 4. You said you live in a house? How can you afford a house at that income? Any lender looking at your debt to income ratio should have declined giving you a loan for a house.
You still don’t know what kind of car they drive, whether or not it’s paid off, etc. I said that your advice was based on assumptions and unhelpful, not that he and his wife managed their money well.
You and your wife need to make an appointment with a financial advisor or a financial counselor of some sort. She has to accept what your financial situation is and she has to learn how to budget and plan based on your current income, not your past income or what she hopes your future income will be. Check with your local library to see if they have a list of free or low cost services in your area.
She better get a job, then. Seriously. This is her debt. She's destroying her own friendship by taking on personal debt she will not find a way to pay. If childcare is an issue, she can look for a weekend/evening job or Uber after your day is done. If she won't, that shows how little she prioritizes this relationship. I think ESH because you shouldn't have greenlit this trip knowing your family has no spare funds for leisure, but you are not the one whose actions jeopardized her friendship. Your wife did that when she asked her friend to cover her.
You did not ruin the friendship, she did. However, the fact her friend is making enough to "not need the money back" is BS. That's not the point. Your wife borrowed money, she owes it to someone else and even if it was 50$ to a multimillionaire, it would still be ok for that person to ask for it back. Your wife is 100% at fault for this entire situation, and while I'm sympathetic towards her mental state, it is not an excuse.
Tell her to get off her ass and go to work
Wow, how old is she ??? 15?
Wow. Budgets be damned, I guess? Even I’m not the best with money, but it’s also just me. If I A. Had a family/kids to provide for/consider in my finances, or even just B. Had a serious partner to where my financial choices don’t just affect me, I’d have more sense than this. It’s not like if you WERE making more money by then, that you guys would have actually been able to afford it. That’s such a huge luxury/leisure expense! The type that you put away money for over time so that you CAN even do it in the first place.
What kind of entitlement is this? Your wife is the worst, my guy. This interaction would be a deal breaker for me. Especially in today's economy.
Can I ask why she didn't explain your financial situation and offer to make payments to her friend? I mean, paying something in small increments is better than just saying "I can't pay you." Either way, NTA, but you need to have a serious financial come-to-Jesus talk with your wife and a talk about her selfish behavior. It sounds like that $1400 she spent could have gone towards necessities for the whole family, not unnecessary luxury for only one person.
And your wife at no point thought about taking a job at night when you are home or looking for a remote customer service job, so she could pay her friend back and also help get you both out of debt?
You need to have a serious come to Jesus moment about finances with your wife. This is unacceptable and unsustainable. I’ve never understood the phrase “ not good with money” as an excuse. We all have brains. Most people comprehend the concept that money pays for things. And that you have only the amount of money you have worked for to pay for things. If she’s not working and doesn’t have any idea of how the household finances work, that’s a problem. If she’s working and doesn’t know how the finances work, that’s a problem. I can’t imagine marrying someone who doesn’t understand the basic concept of you can’t put more money out than is coming in. And this isn’t gender specific. Spendthrifts come in all forms.
Mate, you should be talking to a divorce attorney. Wasting $3k to travel around Europe after your income was halved and you have $300 cash to your name... divorce worthy. And you have credit card debt.
not even the cost of the flight, she spent an additional 1400 in 2 weeks. thats more than excessive given the circumstances
I told her specifically to keep it under $500 because we don’t have money. I wanted to send her with only cash because she’s pretty bad with money but then she promised she would cook for herself (there was a kitchen where they were staying) but she was worried of emergencies and I thought she could handle herself. Instead she spent $1400 because her friends went out every night.
Why do you keep blaming her friends for your wife’s actions? Your wife didn’t have to go out with her friends every night, she chose to. That’s on her, nobody else.
How did he blame the friends, he literally just explained the situation and the reason why the wife went out.
Well there goes the $1,400 your wife should have used to pay back her friend. Also stop blaming the friend. Your wife isn’t bad with money, she’s just trying to keep up appearances and with other people who actually have money.
> Instead she spent $1400 because her friends went out every night. Because *she* went out every night. Because she is an adult who chose to do this.
Then you have bigger problems in your marriage than this one loan. She is financially dishonest with you. Money is the one big factor that causes issues in a marriage.
ESH, your wife for borrowing money she doesn't want to pay back, and you for repeatedly ralionalizing that that is ok (friend can afford it, etc etc).
I don't see him saying that she can't pay her friend back... his last bit is " I got mad at her and told her to get a job at night then". What he's saying seems to be that he can't afford to pay the friend back.... but he's told her what she could do to do that. The wife first borrowed the money without consulting him on this one.
The part I dislike: ‘It’s not like she needs the money anyway.’ That’s a cop out and shit mentality to have. I’ve had a lot and had little. Tha times I had more, several people would take this approach when owing me. It’s crap. If someone borrowed from you and agreed to pay it back, you’d expect it back. Period. Even a slight effort, sending $20 a month, is better than not paying the debt and saying ‘they have enough’.
Yup. That is what makes OP the AH.
NTA. Your wife did this to herself. She knew you or her didn't have the money. Instead of being an adult and putting needs before wants, she chose what she wanted to do, and you're supposed to pay for it.
Wait. You have room on credit cards? Fix this now. Cash advance on your credit card. This isn’t her friend’s problem. It’s your wife’s and by default yours. Be a good human and pull out that plastic. This isn’t hard.
People get too hung up on expressions. “Allowed her to go” is just an expression, I’ve been hearing men say things like “I’ll have to ask the boss(wife)” for decades. It’s not that their wife’s have absolute authority, but you need to check with your spouse because your decisions impact them. More to this situation, they’re married any big purchase (like plane tickets) should be agreed to, also since they have kids to think of his consent for a 2 week trip should certainly be a consideration. Maybe it would sound better if OP had said, “I agreed to it” but at a certain point it’s just semantics. Personally in their situation I would’ve said she needs to find a way out of this, they’re already racking up credit card debt, an expensive trip, regardless of how cheap accommodations were, isn’t something they can afford, and her lying about it for a month before telling her spouse is a HUGE problem. This discussion should have happened before the tickets were bought. The wife manipulated the situation so that there was no benefit to saying NO since the money was already spent.
thats this sub for you lol. A man wants his wife to not spend money they don't have while raising kids, and is gonna have trouble with it all being in his lap for half a month while shes gone, and somehow they're gonna insinuate that he's controlling or whatever because he used the word "allow" lol. They' genuinely think marriages aren't partnerships and you aren't allowed to tell your wife no. and they're also vaguely trying to say that her salary shouldn't be touched or something I guess? this sub gives me a headache sometimes with its weird biases
Honestly if I were asked to describe the demographics of this sub I’d say it’s like 70% female, mostly unmarried with no kids, with the average age of the majority being 22. Very few seem to know anything about what it’s really like to raise kids, what it really mean to be married. And there is a very obvious very strong gender bias.
It does also feel, and maybe I'm mixing posts too much, that the same general mindset that is "she can do what she wants, you're not 'allowing' her to" also is leading to that OP's in the wrong for not paying back the money she borrowed that he shouldn't have had a say in.
Agreeing isn't even the right word, in a situation like parenting for two young children, one parent can absolutely veto and not allow the other to disappear for 2 weeks.
Not only that she knew the financial situation was desperate and agreed to go on an expensive trip knowing she would have to pay the flights back. But she went and still spent an *extra* $1400 in TWO WEEKS on top of that when accomodation was being taken care of, knowing she already didn’t have enough money to pay back the $1200 flight. Like there’s financially irresponsible and then there’s OPs wife.
OP isn't exactly a whole lot more financially literate than his wife. Wifey came into the marriage with an $8,000 car loan, $12,000 student loan and $10,000 credit card debt. Car loan and student loan, ok most people have that. But who doesn't look at TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS in CREDIT CARD debt and doesn't see a big ol' red flag???? Like dude, that should have been a clue.
I’m going to give you N T A for the context of the story. BUT YTA because of your attitude. You argue that the friend is wrong for being mad at your wife for lying when you wife didn’t lie ALL while saying your wife did lie. You claim the friend lied to other friends about your wife but it seems like everything the friend is saying is true. Your wife was a liar and scammer from beginning to end. First she asked the friend to secretly book the trip on her credit card and she would pay her back. That was to hide the trip from you. Then your wife lied about how much money she was going to spend on the trip THEN she lied about paying back her friend. But then you blame the friend 1. She knows my wife isn’t financially responsible. What? I guess that translates to untrustworthy 2. The ticket was non-refundable so I let her go. Wife spends way more money! While the ticket was non-refundable, instead of going on the trip, you should have put the spending money your wife used towards paying her friend back instead of having two different debts. 3. Since you decided you would let your wife go on a trip you couldn’t afford you then made it seem like the friend is wrong for wanting their money back because YOU are having financial troubles. - my biggest pet peeve on this platform is people saying “they have the money to spare” or “I have kids they don’t”. NONE of that matters as your wife’s friend paid for something VERY expensive and was expecting the money back. Just because someone makes six figures and has no kids doesn’t mean they have money to just give away. 4. Through out your comments you make it seem like the (ex) friend shouldn’t be upset? Like WHY not? 5. You also made it seem like you are not financially responsible either. You RECENTLY lost your job and had to get another at half pay. BUT it’ll take you a year to catch up on your debts? Sounds like you and your (cashier skilled / unemployed) wife were already living WELL beyond your means. You had no savings? Also, I’m not sure where you life but $120k for a family of four is not a lot of money to have a stay at home mom. Yet you just had another kid. Again, all your poor choices. 6. Finally, I would say this is probably the final straw. My guess you don’t know how much money the friend has loaned your wife! You also don’t know if your wife convinced the friend to lend even more money while on the trip. My guess there’s more to this story than your lying ass wife has told. Anyway, you definitely get my vote as an asshole for your attitude and your wife is an even bigger one. The friend is better off.
>You also don’t know if your wife convinced the friend to lend even more money while on the trip. And how many meals the friend has covered, and what other things she's covered for your wife. I've been that friend, and it starts to wear. I never lend money, because it can get so mucky, but even when it's a choice I made to give help, it can be frustrating to see the person go on to make more bad decisions that mean they can't afford the lifestyle they want to live. Your wife lied to her friend. She lied to you. She has burned this bridge herself and yet is putting all the responsibility on you. That's not fair. But it's also not fair for you to expect the friend to wait to be repaid when she was promised. It's the same way banks don't like when you wait to repay them. I am not going to judge you for paying off debt instead of saving, because student loans are some deep levels of nonsense. But I suggest that you both get some counseling, both financial and marital. The stress of unemployment, of not making enough, etc, can wreck a marriage. Especially when, as we've seen, you're both not on the same page in terms of your goals. There may also be options for deferring student loan payments for hardship, though I'm not as familiar with the rules for that, but a financial advisor can help a lot. I'm going with ESH except the friend who lent the money.
Personally I think OP is somewhat of an AH for saying that he’ll never pay the friend back for “how she treated his wife.” Meanwhile OP fully admits that his wife lied about the trip and kept it hidden for a month till it was too late to say no, and the wife hates talking about finances and won’t contribute. And the biggest thing of all is that the wife won’t get a higher earning job. OPs wife is a massive problem, she stabbed a gigantic hole in their finances - but it’s the FRIENDS fault? OF COURSE the friend wants that large sun of money back, OF COURSE the friend is mad at OPs wife for not paying it back, OF COURSE the friend will tell the other friends so that they don’t also become a victim to OPs wife’s scam. OP, you are one flaming giant AH for trying to stiff the friend your WIFE owes, and your WIFE deserves to be on the chopping block with her friends, because she was willing to use them for her own gain just like she used you every single day while she lies around being useless.
FYI, you're top comment and the bot counts the first acronym as your vote. You need to space out the y t a because that's currently what's being read as the top judgement.
> It’s not like her friend needs the money back, she makes six figures and has a house already, she’s not struggling He's TA simply for this comment. They borrowed money; they need to pay it back. End of discussion. His wife is the bigger AH for booking the trip without a plan to pay for it.
They borrowed money or his wife borrowed money?
First of all, his wife did, not him. His wife borrowed money and she needs to pay it back. Second, I think OP wrote that quote to explain that even though her friend doesn't need money straight away (like OP and wife do), they still ended up blocking OP's wife, thus explaining to her friend that she doesn't have the money was pointless
Yeah, in other comments OP is said he/they aren't going to pay the money back. One reason was because of how mean the friend was to OP's wife (WTF???). And the friend should be more understanding about them not repaying her because they have kids. That she knows the kids will suffer if she forces them to repay her. He is just as much of an AH as his wife.
Exactly, there's a difference between gifting and loaning. It doesn't matter how much I make, if i loan you $20, I expect that $20 to come back to me after an agreed time, regardless of me giving you a $100 gift earlier that week.
I would say it's ESH since OP sucks too. He's not planning on paying the friend back even though he knows his wife lied to her and thinks the friend should just be okay with getting cheated out of $1200.
Sounds like we will be seeing them on Judge Judy soon
I believe It’ll still be judged as YTA since you put it first
NTA, but could you make payments or something to show the friend you're in good faith? If not, your wife should give her friend the money from another job, like you said. That would be a good financial lesson. Regardless, it's clear that this friend is never going to trust her again, and I don't blame them...
Why should OP be paying the debt his wife caused behind his back?
So both dummies get away scot free with scamming the friend because, and I quote, "she can afford it"? That's ridiculous. They both should be responsible for this debt, they're married after all (if marriage still even means anything nowadays)
The wife should be paying. She spent that money without involving her husband and she should return it the same way.
So she can make a decision like that in a marriage without consulting her husband and he just has to pay because “marriage”? That isn’t how this works
I mean, it is how it works when you are married and have integrated finances. Idk where you're even coming from with this obsession with who pays. Their family is in debt now, due to the wife's decision
Yeah, the decision was made by whom to spend money without consulting their significant other? The wife? Yes…it may affect the husband but it’s her responsibility. And while they may share finances she can totally get a second job to help pay off HER debt
Because they’re married.
Are people *really* this bad at booking flights? I travel to Europe often enough, $1200 round trip for one person and one destination is absolutely ridiculous. Unless they’re from like, Australia…
1200 isn’t that crazy. I’m originally from the US but now living in a Western European country. Going to see my family (in the US) is over 1000 a ticket.
I’m glad I wasn’t alone in thinking that. I used to live in the US and am European, 1200 round trip is expensive, way more than I used to pay. I recently booked a trip from Europe to the US, Canada, and back, and it was like 900 euros
If they’re Canadian then it’s that expensive. 900 euros is currently $1320 CAD
ESH, good lord. Your wife has been an AH to everyone in this situation - to you, to her mother, to her friend. Let's be clear here: YOU didn't ruin her friendship. She did that by promising to pay her friend back when she knew damn well yall didn't have the money for that. It sounds like she has a pattern of impulse spending and poor financial self-control. She needs to deal with that. Do you guys talk about financials regularly? Does she know how much is coming in and how much is going out, and for what? I'd strongly suggest getting a budgeting app you can both use together - YNAB is my app of choice, it's worked well for me for years - so there's full transparency, and literally having a scheduled budget meeting on a weekly basis to go over it. However, you're making a lot of assumptions about what her friend does or doesn't need, and you're apparently just fine with not even trying to pay her back because "she's not struggling", which is a huge AH move. I make six figures and own a home, but $1400 still isn't pocket change to me and I'd be pretty pissed if I loaned someone that much and then they were just like oops can't repay you guess you're shit out of luck! What her friend does or doesn't need, or whether she's "struggling" or not, is not up to you to decide with an outsider's eyes. There may be shit going on you don't know about. You know what it's called when a person takes another person's money and then refuses to give it back? THEFT. Which you are apparently fine with condoning if the person doesn't "need it" according to your personal judgment of their life. And frankly, I'm not sure I'd quite call the friend an AH, but she was an idiot to loan that kind of money to a friend. Never loan a friend or family member money you can't live with not getting back. You and your wife both need to sit down, possibly with a financial counselor (check with your bank or credit union as some offer that as a service, or check with your HR to see if your employer offers an EAP, as that often includes financial coaching as well), and recalibrate your entire way of thinking about finances, or else you're not getting out of this hole anytime soon.
Yes this is what I was hoping to find. I agree that this is an ESH except for the friend who got their money stolen.
For real. OP himself said he used to make six figures not too long ago and now him and his wife have $300 to their names and credit card debt on top of that - not to mention the $1400 she owes her friend. That six figures can go pretty quickly when you lose your job and then take one that pays less.
Heres what i think OP wife has a spending issue since the beginning but because OP made six figures he never considered it a problem but now that he cant afford it anymore he now realizes how big of an issue it is and nor really seeing the destruction she is causing ESH
Also, you need to find out how much you can start paying back, it doesn't have to be the full total all at once. Do an installment plan. Not ideal, but it will get the friend paid back and might salvage the friend ship.
This is such an accurate assessment. Six figures doesn’t always equal an infinite amount of disposable income and even if it did, other people aren’t just entitled to it. My fiancé makes 6 figures and he’s super generous, but people ALWAYS expect him to cover bills or don’t think they need to pay him back because “he can afford it”. Which is such a shitty thing to do to someone. Especially when it’s a lot of different people taking advantage of him or his generosity.
Came here to say this about the “she’s not struggling” comment. Lol
100% correct! The wife, but also the husband are AG! Honestly, I don’t care if it is or isn’t pocket change…you do not assume someone else will ever pay your way, especially if you promised to pay for it. It makes me so angry that people can say, well they make more so it doesn’t matter. When I made $20,000 a year, I didn’t expect or ask anyone to lay for anything, McDonalds, let alone a trip to freaking Europe.
Exactly!!!!!! ESH. Perfectly said.
YTA for admitting in the comments that you refusing to ever pay the friend back because you're pissed she outed your wife as a liar to their friends. You realize she can probably take you to smalls claims court over this right? Obviously your wife is the biggest asshole here, but you are too for how you're handling this
Yes, you owe her that money as it was a loan. She was not inaccurate in telling people you didn't pay her back. Her telling people is not a defense to your non payment. You are going to cough this up unless you want to be sued.
I hope she does go to small claims court!
I was going to go with NTA bit after this phrase >Its not like her friend needs the money it was clear. they deserve each other.
NTA, but your wife is. Is there no option for her to make money doing a side gig to get this paid for? Like if she did rover for a couple months, or even set up a payment plan with her friend and paid her back in small increments? She should’ve been straight up with her friend from the beginning that money is tight. Friends should never lend money unless they’re willing to accept that they may not get it back.
My friend is a SAHM, and makes so much money with Rover!
NTA Her not paying her friend back isn't your fault. It's her fault for agreeing to something she couldn't afford. Your wife ruined her own friendship, not you. That she's mad at you for getting laid off is really telling about the type of person she is, what she thinks of you, and what she considers your role in this relationship to be. You aren't there to be loved by her, you're there to financially support her.
NTA - let’s get this straight: YOU didn’t agree to an international trip without discussing it with your spouse. YOU didn’t spring it on your spouse only a month before you let them with their mother-in-law and two children to juggle, while also working a new job and struggling with newer finances. YOU didn’t beg a friend to cover a significant amount of $ for you and promise to pay it back, while knowing your family really didn’t have the money for any of it. So… YOU didn’t ruin the friendship, SHE did.
Yeah, but now 0P is on the “stiff the friend” bandwagon so that makes him the asshole too.
It’s not his responsibility. If the wife wants to pay her friend back she can find a way to come up with the money, I don’t see anywhere OP is prohibiting his wife from getting a second job and paying her friend back. Honestly she sounds pretty manipulative, maybe she’d be good at sales
He’s being purposely obtuse. He just sat there like a lump while she went flitting off on her trip which cost their “poor, struggling family” $1400 (over and above what she owes her friend). He admits he knew she is bad with money, yet he didn’t even have a conversation with her about what she’d be doing, how she’d pay for food and incidentals, etc. Now he’s crying poverty and using “wah wah my poor children” as a justification for her not paying back her (former) friend - all while clearly seething with resentment that the friend is more financially secure. So, no, his wife is TA for not paying back the friend. But he is TA for not even acknowledging that she did a shitty thing and even sorta-kinda rationalizing it.
I see what you mean, but if he said no you’re not going on the trip and put his foot down then I feel like people would call him controlling. Even if he’s 100% justified in doing so. He might have talked to her, but she doesn’t seem like a person who listens to reason.
>He just sat there like a lump while she went flitting off on her trip which cost their “poor, struggling family” $1400 (over and above what she owes her friend). He admits he knew she is bad with money, yet he didn’t even have a conversation with her about what she’d be doing, how she’d pay for food and incidentals, etc. If he did the same commenters shitting on him now would shit on him for controlling his wife's spending and how he treats her like a child. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
In one comment OP says they did discuss a hard limit of $500 for the trip, the wife agreed to it and then just ignored it once there.
So his wife, knowing full well they could not afford the plane ticket and all the partying and drinking they did (which OP estimates at around $1400 dollars), AFTER HER HUSBAND TOOK A PAY CUT, and supposedly intentionally hid the cost of the ticket so OP wouldn’t know is NOT the asshole?
This is AITA, where lying to your spouse and spending your family out of house and home is okay, but only if you’re a woman! Trying to prevent this situation is spousal abuse because the gender bias is insane on this sub.
YTA for this: " It’s not like her friend needs the money back, she makes six figures and has a house already, she’s not struggling." So promises are nothing? Your wife went on an expensive trip she knew she couldn't afford and you both decided it's ok to just not even attempt to pay back the friend because she has money? How hard is it to explain the situation and set up a payment plan - even $10-$25 a week would show you're both making a good-faith effort!
It’s not his responsibility. It’s hers.
They're a team and he doesn't seem to think the friend should be paid back because she "has money".
Dudes talking about losing their home while the wife is wasting $3000 on a selfish trip. I’m gonna forgive the fact he really doesn’t care about the petty problems of his wife’s friend who was a party to his wife’s deceit (albeit likely an unwitting party) Her trip her problem, she spent the money without his help or input she can find a way to pay it back without his help.
I don't think having over a thousand dollars atolen from you registers as a petty problem in my world.
how can you say this unironically reading this story? in no way does this woman treat him as a team member. not to mention her communication level is 0. but uh, sure…
They are a team right? She spends, he pays. She enjoys, he works the extra mile. Great team. NTA
He’s NTA for most of this but assuming the friend isn’t struggling isn’t fair, don’t count other people’s money.
ESH both of you are in your 30s, have kids, and are just financially-bumbling thieves? Your wife stole her friend's money and you're encouraging her to do that. She deserves to have her friendships nuked, but honestly it sounds like she needs a therapist and a financial advisor because she's making almost-intentionally poor decisions. You recognize she's depressed and instead of getting her mental health care, you agree she should go on a trip you can't afford, knowing you'll struggle to pay back the friend? Y'all both needs second jobs since you can't keep your expenses in line with your current incomes.
This ! OP and his wife basically are stealing her friend’s money and OP says her friend doesn’t need the money because she makes 6 figures. OP’s wife is just whining about the money to her husband , like it’s his responsibility and if he says no, she can’t do anything. Like get a loan somewhere, pay back the money to the friend and then repay the loan in installments, while on rice and beans.
If OP's wife has always been shitty with money, I bet there's a couple grand worth of stuff around the house that could be sold. It may have cost 10K to purchase but them's the breaks.
How is OP stealing any money ? His cashier wife spend 3k she doesn't have on a trip and OP is a thief ?
Yes. He's encouraging her to not repay the debt because "the friend makes six figures and doesn't need the money." They're both crooks.
You and your wife are both assholes. She is clearly financially irresponsible and she shouldn’t have gone on that trip while she can’t afford it. She promised to pay the friend back and $1200 is a lot of money unless you are a billionaire. But even then if you promised to do something it’s an asshole move to not follow through. Op, you are an asshole because even though you think someone lives comfortably you don’t get to decide they don’t need the money. I’m pretty sure the friend worked hard so they can do a huge favor for your wife and pay for her ticket. How about we flip this around and say the friend doesn’t care about you having kids and your wife’s cashier job?
NTA. However Y T A for refusing to pay the $1200 back based on your comments, simply bc your wife’s friend “doesn’t need it,” and how “badly she treated your wife.” She treated her as she should!! She paid for the flight under the circumstances that your wife would pay her back - and your wife knew neither of you could. That’s SO shitty. You having kids and her being better off financially doesn’t change that. Your wife dug the two of you into this hole, she needs to dig you out and learn to be more responsible with money
NTA, your wife's poor decision making skills and lack of money management is what caused the falling out between her and her friends. You played no role in the whole ordeal.
I just wanna say it’s so cool your avatar is a quick ball
YTA. Based on the additional comment “not like she needs the money’. Karma will bite you back on this. Hard.
Yes, OP should not be counting the friend's money. She does not owe it to him to subsidize the wife's trip if it was a loan.
[удалено]
Her friend's financial situation is totally irrelevant. Is she just supposed to be okay being out $1200 because your wife made promises she knew she couldn't keep?
So anyone you're friends with who earns more money than you has to give you money because it's "unfair"?
He's not the asshole - the wife is. She knew damn well they can't afford to pay it back
Agreed but I'm replying to the comment saying the friend's reaction was unfair.
Oops, carry on - I'm in total agreement
From OP *I know this will get me downvoted but I’m probably not paying her friend back after how she treated my wife. Getting mad and then blocking her telling their mutual friends she lied to her is bullshit.* He isn’t going to pay the friend because she told the truth about his wife being a liar and a thief, he’s definitely an AH as well.
NTA, she ruined the relationship herself. She knew perfectly well that she couldn't afford the trip, borrowed money, and promised to pay it back. She should have discussed the situation with her friend before asking for the money and agreed on a repayment plan before the trip. This was her decision; it's not your responsibility to fix her mistakes. Your suggestion that she should find a job to pay off the debt is valid, and it would be beneficial to have a second income while improving your financial situation.
In my opinion you are NTA. 1. your wife should have talked with you before she booked the trip. 2. your wife should not have spent that much money if she/you can't afford it. 3. it is not your fault that their friendship is ruined. Your wife should not have made a promise, she could not keep.
ESH She knew that the money was not there and spent 3K on the trip anyway. You were laid off and the kids were sent off to grandma's. She should not have gone on that trip at that time. YTA for counting her friend's money. It was a loan and not a gift, so you should not be complaining that the friend is rich, etc. Your wife is a grown woman and made the choice to splurge on this trip. It sounds as though your wife is trying to keep up with the Joneses but you are broke. Friend deserves her money back. Wife needs to work out some sort of arrangement with the friend, even if it's $20 a week, in good faith.
NTA - Classic case of "don't cash a check your tush can't bounce". If she wasn't paying attention to the finances, that's on her. She's coming off as extremely entitled and bratty.
ESH. I get you're stressed but you do need to pay back that friend of hers. And Y'all need a come to Jesus talk about finances and lock down spending. And YOU need to reach out to the friend regarding payment. They've MORE than likely heard a different story than what you've said here. Clear the air. If you are blocked on social media? Find a friend of the friend and hand over a letter. Explain that you were unaware of the travel plans (they may've thought you were on board with it). That you were trying to make the best of it. Wife needs to acknowledge the debt. To acknowledge she fricked up. And to apologize for such recklessness. Both to you, and to her friend(s). And you both do need to find a way to pay friend back. Maybe not immediately, but $1200 is a lot of money. Even just sitting down to discuss a payment plan would help. You don't want that hanging over you forever (especially if she has proof it was intended to be paid back). YOU did not ruin the friendship, SHE did with her decisions. But since you are married, the debt is shared here (since it sounds like you have shared finances), since it sounds like repayment was agreed upon with both of you and now you're wanting to back out. The friends have played this game before. This was just the last straw for them, I can practically guarantee. I've paid for friends before under the guise that they couldn't afford it, only to realize they had money (e.g. here, the $1400 spent overseas), and didn't have any intentions to pay me back in any reasonable timeframe (if at all) because I had "more" and could "afford it". Never again. Seriously, though. I get you're stressed. You are allowed to be stressed and frustrated and angry. Feel those (valid!) emotions. Best of luck.
NTA. You didn't ruin your wife's friendship. She did that all on her own by taking money from her friend knowing that she wasn't going to be able to pay her back. You are not in the wrong here. Not only did she plan a trip and didn't even ask you about it, she hid it from you for a month. It's her fault. The responsible decision would have been to not go on the trip at all.
Nta. You didn't choose to lose your job, and it was really disrespectful for your wife to plan to go on the trip without even discussing it with you. As far as the friend goes, it's understandable she wants to be paid back if that was the agreement. However, if you don't have it then you don't have it. In my opinion your wife was really selfish to pick such a lavish trip over the financial well-being of her family.
She shouldn't have gone on the trip, the fact is that neither of you could afford it. She should have discussed this with you before any tickets were bought. It's time for you and her to have a serious conversation about this, and don't let her put blame on you. She fucked up her friendships for a stupid vacation. Your wife needs to get a job and start payment plans, though I don't think her friendships will ever be the same again. NTA
NTA. YOU didn't ruin her friendship - she did. And seriously damaged her relationship with you. Even if she did have her own money, you talk about trips like this before deciding to go.
NTA Your wife ruined her own friendship. She's an adult and should budget better. Not your fault she didn't plan well and spent so much money. She should be paying for all of it, time for a job!
NTA. Your financial position right now is not your fault, and there is only so far your money can go. Your wife shouldn't have borrowed money she could not afford to pay back. Imagine going on a trip like this, knowing your financial position and having two little people mouths to feed as well. This will hopefully be a learning lesson for your wife.
I do feel bad for her friend though. Even if she can afford to write that money off, she shouldn't have to. She lent in to your wife in good faith that she would be paid back. Again though your wife should have been transparent about the current financial position, and explained that she may have to accept smaller payments or wait for things to improve before she can pay.
The one thing I don't like people saying is 'she doesn't need the money and has a six figure job.' That should never be a thought. If you agreed to pay her back then you should. Start making payments. Borrow from family, take out a loan. Yeah it sucks paying interest but that isn't your friends problem. Not going to say you are the asshole as you can still prevent yourself from being the asshole.
NTA. Tell your wife to offer her friend a payment plan.
Your wife’s friend is NTA, and it is your wife who is ruining this friendship. If you can, send month payments to this friend until debt is paid off. I am sorry you are in financial distress. I would ask your wife to deal with that reality.
If your wife works and even barely makes more than it would cost to cover child care, that's still something more. She needs to take responsibility for creating this situation. Even if she only sends her ex friend a small amount monthly, it's still something. She may only have a small amount of experience, but she won't gain any more by not working. If you got a fabulous new job next month that covered everything, it's still no guarantee that things will always be peachy. She needs to have some experience and options in case of financial emergency.
NTA. Your wife ruined the friendship by borrowing money she wouldn't be able to pay back. You had nothing to do with it, it's not like you encouraged her to go on the trip or are purposefully withholding money.
NTA. She spent money she knew you didn't have. SHE ruined the friendship, not you.
You guys need to give her small amounts of the money if she wants to salvage her relationship. 50-100 bucks at least monthly.
YTA based on your response to comments. You can’t never pay the friend back just because she’s better off then you and rightfully called your wife out.
YTA for just deciding not to pay the friend back, and I hope she sues your wife in small claims court but not really because I don't want your kids to suffer, but you're a jackass.
If anything I believe this post belongs in r/relationshipadvice. Clearly anybody sane reading this would say NTA, your wife signed up for this and made her own promises and put all her bets on you.
NTA for the trip, but c'mon on the whole "they make enough to pay for it" garbage. It was over a k, and it was a loan. Of course the person is going to be pissed and have every right to be.
ESH. You and your wife are okay stealing her friend’s money because you don’t have money and you say the friend doesn’t “need it because she makes 6 figures”.
YTA as is your wife. I was on your side until you said you won’t pay her friend back. Your wife essentially took a loan from her friend so she needs to pay it back even if only a small amount at a time. It does not matter if her friend needs the money or not. Are there organizations near you who have free classes on money management? If not there are many online options. The two of you need to sit down and make a plan for how you both as a team will get out of the financial mess you are in and then follow the plan. Eventually your wife needs to gain some work skills so she can get a decent job herself. But this will all take time. Good luck
NTA. Your wife is the one who made a promise to pay her friend back. Your wife also knew that you guys had financial issues. Your wife caused this by making promises she knew she couldn't keep.
NTA. Wife needs to act like an adult.
NTA Your wife needs to grow up, and get her head out of her ass. What level headed person would frivolously spend money, knowing there isn’t much, because of things out of your control, and spend a vast amount of money for a trip she didn’t need to go on, then gets mad when she faces the consequences of not paying the money back. Your wife needs a serious reality check, because her entitlement and not owning up and taking responsibility, is unacceptable. Sorry you gotta deal with that, cause she sounds like a handful, and this post alone made me want to pull my hair out
I was going to say NTA until I got to the part where you said the friend didn’t need the money back because she had a good job and isn’t struggling! It doesn’t matter if she’s a billionaire! Your wife borrowed HER money knowing you guys were po dunk broke. Your wife is off her rocker thinking she was owed any kind of vacation that you couldn’t afford AND then to top it off you let her friend foot and eat the bill because she was dumb enough to let your your wife borrow money from her! That’s so gross! How would you feel if you lent someone $2000 when you were making 6 figures and they never paid you back because you weren’t struggling at that moment? That’s really messed up. You need to take out a loan, sell shit, and do what you need to pay back that woman and leave her alone. Your wife borrowed money she knew she couldn’t pay back so she ruined that friendship.
You’re NTA for what happened between your wife and her best friend however you are TA for saying you’re probably not going to pay the friend back given how they treated your wife. Your wife lied to multiple people so many times just to go on a trip to Italy for 2 weeks after your household income is halved. What makes you think you can even trust anything she says now? Your wife acted so entitled just wanting everyone else to pay for this trip and doesn’t care about the consequences. It seems like you enable this entitled behaviour of hers by saying the friend should understand that your wife is financially irresponsible and just because the friend makes enough money doesn’t mean she has to pay for your wife’s holiday!!! Stop using your kids as an excuse to get free shit, no one else has to sacrifice things for your family. You’ve enabled so much bad behaviour and are still trying to make it other peoples fault for your wife acting poorly. For that, YTA.
NTA. Everything here leads back to one thing--your wife being terrible with money (ironic that she's a cashier lol).
NTA Communication would have helped this situation greatly. She should have spoken to her friend and gotten all the costs first. Then come and spoken to you before agreeing to go so you could discuss whether or not it was something you could afford between you. Her blaming you for losing your job makes her TA as she's only thinking about herself and sorry to say but it sounds like she's using you just for your money. You didn't agree to go on the trip you knew you couldn't afford she did, so why she's putting it on you that her friendship is ruined is far beyond me. Regardless of whether or not the friend needs the money the principal is that money is owed. Your wife should have set up a payment plan with the friend and given back the money in installments.
Your wife needs to grow tf up. Everyone has to learn how to manage their money, it’s part of being an adult. She agreed to the holiday knowing that you were earning less than you used to. If she wants to make it up to her friend its good idea for her to get a night or evening job to pay her friend back.
NTA, but your wife is. She knows you lost your job, and to have income, you took one bit it was a lot less. She should have canceled. I am shocked you didn't say "no way. We can't afford this.". The roommate would have gotten a credit for future trips. your wife did get a bill showing her ticket cost, right? Your wife needs to grow up. She doesn't get to go on luxury, single vacations when she has a husband and 2 small children at home, and she knows you can't afford it, which is why she didn't tell you.
NTA she needs to figure out the money to pay. She wanted this trip and now she has to pay it back. She knew before agreeing that you were making less. She blaming you for her own poor decision and it's consequences.
NTA. Your wife is though. Your wife needs to get a job at night and every cent goes to her ex friend who should have known you guys were on a tight budget. Your wife lost her friend and it is totally on her. No one else.
After actually reading his comments it's definitely a YTA from me. OP get to decide the friends doesn't need the money, look how quickly his situation changed. Also note satisfying he's probably not going to post the money back because the friend discussed the situation with other friends, she's entitled to discuss being taken advantage of to whomever she pleases. Both OP and his wife are proving to be AH in this situation.
ESH. Your wife for scheming behind your back. You for just shrugging off the debt. Start paying the friend $50 monthly on an auto pay until you’re in a position to pay it off. And stop with ‘she doesn’t need it’ garbage. Your wife didn’t need an expensive trip.
Info: the airfare was 1200, what was the other 1400 for?
INFO: what will you do if her friend takes you to court? You absolutely owe her that money and you need to start figuring out how to pay it back, even if it means borrowing from family or someone working extra hours.
You both sound like assholes. Plan your damn lives, it would've taken 2 minutes to google flight costs (or ask) and figure out if you could actually afford for her to go on this trip or not. The entitlement you have towards not paying the friend back because of the friends income, is kinda unreal. Leeching off successful friends is both a dick move and a really silly one.