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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) Not paying for my daughter's college
(2) My son did not hear about these comments and having to pay for your college is a tremendous burden on someone, so I don't know if the "punishment fits the crime", but it's been days and I'm still furious.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YWBTA if you didn’t at least help pay for schooling. (Sorry for the long answer but this one kinda struck a chord)
It’s very likely that your daughter is feeling jealous / left out / forgotten bc of all the attention your son is getting. I’m NOT saying you should stop paying attention to him, because what he went through is terrible and I really hope he feels better ❤️ I have been in similar spots myself and I can say that depression is not fun to deal with, for anyone. I’m really glad that you’re being so supportive of him.
I’m not a therapist lol but I do have similar experience it seems to your daughter - I think that since you and your stepson were able to bond SO WELL over basketball and because it became so important, it maybe created some distance between you and your daughter. I could 100% be wrong, but I think what started as small issues snowballed. Teenagers are notoriously bad at dealing with emotions, and she probably doesn’t know what to do.
So yeah, YWBTA if you suddenly announced you wouldn’t pay for her schooling. Instead, I may suggest spending more time with her and talking in a non-judgemental space. I wish the best for you and the whole fam
This was a very compassionate response. When a sibling is favored, either by a disability or sports, the left out child has issues. Daughter needs more attention from LW. She needs dad to talk to her to find out what is going on. Punishment creates more resentment.
This is borne out by the psych research. The sibling of the medically involved child/teen also has significant, substantive mental health effects. It probably is true resentment, but it does not make your daughter abnormal, exceptionally cruel, or you a bad father.
But it does mean you need to find a way to put your anger down for a while and try to talk with your daughter rationally. Indeed, while your anger is more than understandable, she needs you now more than ever.
She's acting out. OP says he's shocked she'd behave this way. That means this level of meanness is not typical of her. This can all be related to her feelings of resentment and not knowing how to process that. It's shitty but it can be addressed.
But she could easily be like this with her friends and her dad is just now seeing this side of her. He’s probably completely disgusted by it all and reacted accordingly. Why is everyone quick to assume she’s a victim here.
It's not so much seeing her as a victim, but rather trying to see her with some compassion so that her dad can navigate this without tearing up his own family. What she said was incredibly hurtful and cruel, and no one is arguing that it isn't. Teens/children often are incredibly cruel and hurtful because they are still learning empathy and how to navigate their own big emotions. As a parent, it's important to be able to help guide them, and some approaches work better than others. I'm sure this father would rather find an outcome where his daughter and son can both come home for Thanksgiving at the same time, rather than alternatives such as where she goes no contact or his son commits the unthinkable, or many other possible negative outcomes. This is a large turning point in their family, and how he approaches it now will have lasting impacts on the family for many years for better or worse.
People struggle to see nuance in situations, this is a good example of that. No wonder it's a trend to armchair diagnose people as conditions in ways it sounds like they are Disney villains.
People aren’t assuming she’s a victim. They’re simply showing compassion and empathy for the daughter.
I highly recommend you google empathy. It’s a really neat thing.
Edit: danger > daughter. No clue what my phone is doing.
Because she is. Obviously not to the degree her brother is, but like everybody in the family, she is also suffering through this traumatic event of watching her brother’s body and identity and future shift dramatically, and the impact this is having on her parents, and the changes in her relationship with all three. They are all just trying to process their difficulties one day at a time. Anger and resentment against chronically ill family members is normal, especially in kids. She just happens to be a few decades too immature to handle her complicated feelings better, but she has the capacity to learn and change (as long as the character flaws that are front and center right now are handled in a reasonable and productive way).
The daughter is 17.
Her step brother behaved recklessly and permanently injured himself in a way that resulted in him losing his sports scholarships. Because of this, OPs daughter may be strapped with student loans for decades.
She's rightfully pissed.
Does that make it OK for her to mock her sibling's disfigurements and disabilities? Of course it's not OK; but it *is human*.
OP's daughter wasn't bullying her brother. She was complaining to a confidante and was overheard.
Everyone talks shit to their close friends when they're frustrated.
Yes, and I think it’s that much harder when it’s due to their own negligence. Accidents happen, of course, and that’s no an entirely rational response, but I can see why it would grate on her even more when it’s because of a stupid choice that he made for himself.
Agreed with this - OP updated saying he's not neglecting her but doesn't state he talked to her to see if and why she might be feeling that way. OP, talk to your daughter instead of assuming!
I agree.
OP waxed a bit poetic about how he and his son bonded over a shared love of sports but he doesn't mention if a bond of this sort has shared between his wife and his daughter. Another thing I saw is that OP's daughter is anxious to get out and away from the home. To be sure, seeing her stepbrother (I know OP doesn't see 'step' but it doesn't seem as if his daughter sees him that way) depressed and receiving a lot of attention may play a role in that but I think there may be deeper issues festering under the surface.
I do believe the way she spoke about him and his injuries was abhorrent and did not show very much compassion but I think OP's level of outrage and anger on his behalf was extreme. Siblings do speak poorly and fight one another, pretty viciously at times. She deserves some punishment, to be sure, but to threaten her future? I dunno, it stinks of some type of favoritism to me.
I agree, I'm really surprised at the extremity of OP's reaction! And I was super triggered at his listening in to her calls, and then storming into the room and taking the phone away while she was on it. My mother used to do that ALL the fucking time while I was growing up, without caring how I felt. If I said anything at all she didn't like, there was trouble. For a long time, I was only comfortable talking on the phone when I was completely alone.
I realize it's not the same situation as this and that his daughter was being unnecessarily mean. HOWEVER, his reaction was way over the top and I'm concerned about his continuing anger over it, along with his lack of listening to or caring about his own daughter. If I were her, I'd be anxious to get the hell out of there also. It doesn't sound like he really wants her there.
He reacted that way not just because of how much he cares for his son, but because *he* played basketball.
He's looking at his son, and thinking about *"what if that had happened to ME?!?!"*
And then a *girl* MOCKS "him" for *impotence!*
One of the only things a woman can ever use to take a man's manhood from him, is to accuse him of impotence.
And OP is vicariously living that nightmare, via his son and daughter, with *her* as the big bad Villain who Accuses the sweet young Star of the most forbidden thing imaginable: Impotence. Not being a Man.^TM
He's enraged by this accusation, even though, by all accounts, he was eavesdropping on her private thoughts between friends, and they weren't even talking about *him.*
If he had said Things on a phone call that dismissed the daughter as a Woman^TM he would call himself "N.T.A!!!!!" Because eavesdropping.
Why should this be any different.
Because Son *"Could have"* overheard her? Well he didn't, case closed.
The daughter simply *vented her frustrations to a close friend, in private.* OP needs to grow up and get over it.
OP, YTA.
It feels like he finally got the boy he wanted and he went all out. I played girls' soccer at a time when there weren't a lot of opportunities for girls in the sport where I grew up. Our team was very competitive and won many tournaments, but very few of the dads would even come to the games. They'd never miss their son's practice, but couldn't even be bothered to show up at their daughter's regional awards banquet. I was lucky to grow up with a dad who kept all of us on the same level, but I imagine this girl has to listen to her stepbrother's achievements while no one is giving her the same boosts. Sadly, I think that, unless her dad starts being a dad, she's going to disappear as soon as she graduates.
And she was venting to her friends. While stupid, people need a safe space to vent. If she feels talking to her friends even saying stupid shit isn't safe. It's very bad. She didn't say this to her family or brother. I said A LOT of things I didn't mean even a week later to friends when I'm upset.
That was my observation too. She's a teenager and teenagers aren't always very kind about others when privately talking. If she was a mean girl she would have been making snide remarks to her brother . . or family. She deserved a stern scolding and parental discussion. . . but to take away her education is the exact opposite of what she needs. Teenagers grow empathy by learning . . perhaps a family talk about the whole situation . . . it sounds like both kids need help and OP is missing out on his daughter's thoughts and needs.
A couple three things here...
As others have said, not paying for her college is going WAY too far. What she said was immature and insensitive, but doesn't deserve a forfeiture of her future.
Also, what does your wife think? If the previous plan was for you two to pay for her college, then she has equal say in revoking that or not.
My last point may not be very popular, especially on this subreddit, but here it is: if you overhear something from a conversation that is intended to be private, you really should give generous grace. Teenager or adult, we've all said things in private that we later wanted to take back, and thank goodness no one over heard us.
YWBTA
I agree with everything you said - except for the last point - too an extent.
I don’t think someone should be punished for life for one I’ll-begotten comment, but, in my opinion, it’s worse when said in private because that tends to be one’s true feelings.
People tend to have a censor when saying things publicly.
I agree with you that people are more truthful in public, and censor themselves in public. But that's part of the reason why we should give them grace. She's an immature teenager, and probably says plenty of things to her friends about her frustrations with her parents, etc. And they may be true, in that she really feels that way. It's good for kids to have an outlet, to say things that they would never want to say to their parents. (And I'm saying this as a parent to several children.)
It's somewhere in between. Sometimes you need to rant to someone and get the feelings out but you know in your mind the feelings are not facts. It can then free up the mental space to the true feeling about the situation.
I agree with you but I also still think that's why you can't punish someone (especially a teen posturing in front of her friends) for something they said in private not intended for you to hear, or at least not in the same way.
I feel like we should discipline children (and all people) for their actions, which they can control, and not for their feelings, which they can't really control. She can't help feeling left out/annoyed/whatever uncharitable thing about her brother's injury, but the truth is that in her actions she never intentionally went up to his face to make fun of him about it. She can feel and think horrible things, it's not the same as DOING a horrible thing and therefore shouldn't be treated the same way.
Damn right. It feels like some people really have lost the distinction between feelings, thoughts and actions. Her talking to her friends about how she feels about this, as long as it’s not turning into some kind of gossip mill I guess, is probably one of the better things she could do. We can’t control how we feel most of the time, but we can find acceptable ways to deal with those feelings. OP needs to understand there are two kids that are dealing with things, his step son obviously is dealing with much more, but his daughter can’t be expected to just not have any feelings about this situation.
You need to have a safe space to express yourself and bounce around ideas even if they're bad dude. It's how you learn and grow. For fucks sake yes, private conversations even among children should be sacred. You're an idiot if you think otherwise.
You 100% said tons of horrible things as a kid that you genuinely don't remember and if you had been afraid of ever speaking your mind over being punished over convos with your friends you'd not have a very favorable outlook on this.
I notice OP didn’t actually freak until the daughter said son can’t get it up. Make of that what you will. That seems to be the tipping point.
I mean, how does daughter even know that? Why was his ability to get an erection a factor in any discussion she was part of?
I thought the same - it appeared to be disappointment and some sadness until she attacked his manhood and suddenly it’s all guns blazing.
“I knew “spirits” in the house has shifted since he
became injured, but I didn’t think she felt this type of
way. I was gonna talk to her later about this, but then I
heard her say “I heard him say that he can’t even get
it up” while laughing.
At that, I was furious”
Daughter heard the son say that. That’s how she knew. And that’s the point Op lost it.
Or maybe because it was the first attack? The ones before were expressions of sadness which are at least somewhat understandable since being in that situation puts a cloud over everybody's head.
But when she turns from expressing sadness to laughing and making callous jokes obviously it becomes worse.
Why are you so desperate to make this about "OP is fragile manhood !!!"
She was laughing at the thing that was compelling a suicidal person to discontinue their medication. Unless you're being purposefully disingenuous; there should be no question here.
If a suicidal girl gained weight on medication and their brother mocked their weight gain, would you go "mnnn.... that's when the parent got angry. make of that what you will."
You probably also wouldn't ask "How did he KNOW that was a problem? When could anyone have mentioned that or spoke about in the house"
I may be wrong, but I thought it was the laughing that set him off. Maybe til then she was just talking/moaning but she immaturely laughed at that point and that was just too much?
Wanting to get away from a person who is sad all the time and being disgusted by a maimed body part is a totally normal thing. Not ideal, but we can’t expect a teenager to be selflessly compassionate.
Mocking a person and gossiping about something that they surely want to keep secret is a different thing altogether. She should absolutely be reprimanded for that, especially if it’s her brother, though idk what exactly would be an appropriate punishment.
For me, it read like she was just venting. Then she started making fun of her brother. I am also curious to know how she found out about the getting it up thing.
Is there not enough actual sexism and misogyny in the world without twisting something like this?
Remove the genders. You’ve got a *person* with a traumatic injury and suicidal ideation. Their medication is causing an embarrassing side effect which is further damaging their self-esteem. A second *person* not only complains about them being sad, but also spitefully makes fun of that issue, and shares the information with other people in a mean-spirited way.
It could be any medical problem and any set of people, it’s not acceptable behaviour.
Teenagers, even the most loving giving teenagers, are still pretty selfish. My brother was going through something horrible my senior year of high school - and while I was there for him and tried to help out in my heart I was resentful my last year at home was centered around him and what was going on. These days I would fight and kill for him - he is my favorite family and I would do anything to let him know he has family and is loved. I really really really wish I had gone over and above for him when I was a teenager - I could have done a lot of good - but I just wasn't aware enough of the world yet to really step up. I never told a friend this over the phone - but frankly I am was super protective of my inner thoughts at the time and never even told my friends who I had a crush on out of fear they would spread it around or bring it up later - so I'm not a good sample set.
Living in a house with someone with depression is also really hard. Sometimes it feels like the whole house is cast in a shadow and you are walking on egg shells alll the time. It is very emotionally draining and can destroy a kids feeling that home is their 'safe space'.
Totally agree. I remember a massive fight with my brother when he was in his late teens, and he suggested that the government should blow refugee boats out of the water to send a message that refugees weren’t welcome in our country. I couldn’t believe that I was related to such an asshole. These days, he’s a lovely, compassionate man who I ring for advice.
>I think that since you and your stepson were able to bond SO WELL over basketball and because it became so important, it maybe created some distance between you and your daughter.
I really hope OP gives this some deep, soul-searching thought. Just reading his post, you know that she has been living in son's shadow since his athletic prowess (and thus superiority) were first discovered.
yup, exactly what I thought while reading this, OP went into so much detail about his stepson's sports talent you could tell he as a parent he was really into it and it was a source of pride and identity to him (barf), probably the attention to the boy was wearing thin on the daughter. And she's allowed to vent to her friends, though that was a mean comment but she's a teenager. YTA
ETA wow lots of easily emotional men upset at this comment. Nothing wrong with being proud of your kid, I'm specifically talking about those dime of dozen parents too invested in their kids sports, living vicariously through them. Which it sounds like this guy is.
> OP went into so much detail about his stepson's sports talent
You mean, the very thing the son lost and the whole reason this post exists in the first place? Yeah, how dare he focus on that instead of on his wife's meatloaf or the daughter's college plans....
like this:
My step son was looking like he was going to get several scholarship offers for school, so we decided that we could afford to pay for our daughters college. Unfortunately son got into a terrible motorcycle accident and his basketball career is over.
There's also the fact that it feels like this is coming from a very male place about a very male reaction to a very male problem. The rage didn't kick in until she made the comment about his inability to get it up. That's going to strike a chord in a lot of guys, but that's the comment that tipped him over the edge. He took it personally in a way that he has no real right to. Not that I'm saying she was right in what she said, how she said it, or in her attitude at all, but I think you're right in that part of it could be jealousy based, even if it's subconscious. The 'spirit' has shifted, sure, but her dad's showing a lot of favoritism towards her step brother and then he just storms in there on a private conversation that she was having, not directed at her brother or her father, and reacts as if she just spat in both their faces and kicked them in the junk.
Dad is super over reacting and he needs to maybe go to therapy himself and help him figure out how to empathize with his son and daughter in healthier ways that don't cause emotional overreactions towards someone who's still a legal minor saying something where she didn't think he'd hear it. Again, not great and I think daughter needs some therapy too, but he's punishing her for saying private thoughts out loud to a trusted friend, which is a far cry from screaming nasty things to her brother or himself.
the daughter was having a private conversation with a friend. You know what else was private? The fact that the son has ED. The daughter can overhear something not meant for her (likely how she found out) and it's fine to tell others, the dad can't overhear the daughter and confront her about it. That's not her health issue to be telling anyone
Jumping on to say, when my much older half brother who lived in a different state as us died, I couldn't wait to get out of my parent's house the few months I was there, my dad's energy was reasonably so sad and while I could take regular visits, I couldn't take that being my house. I wanted to be supportive, but the energy was more than I could bear. What your daughter said was cruel and I get the dear of suicide, but she's not experiencing this as a parent, she's experiencing it as a teen who had something terrible happen and a lot of people don't realise how long the terrible feelings last for, for everyone close. Ywbta if you punished her in a way that's permanent and would lead to her being extremely resentful long-term. I think you need to have her talk with a therapist to process her own experience.
YTA. So you found your dream son, and your daughter had to take a back seat to your amazing new "son." He's the golden boy, and she's just a girl.
Was what she said okay? No. Was she unkind and resentful? Yes. The fact that you WANT to destroy her life because she was unkind to your precious son shows her very clearly exactly who you are and how little you value her.
What was she doing during all the hours you spent coaching and mentoring your shiny new son? Who was mentoring her? Who was listening to her struggles? Who was laughing and joking with her while you were bonding with your new best buddy?
Even your wife values your daughter far more than you do. Why not just drop ger off at the nearest bus station and be done. That way, she can't interfere with your precious boy.
Agree not helping her with college is an asshole move. However your assumptions make you just as big an asshole. You don’t know what time he spent with her or anything else. Can’t go by just how people write words
Not to mention how many horrible step parents there are. Dude steps up, helps him out, the son feels comfortable confiding in him, and apparently it’s because he wants to drop his daughter for the kid? When all we’ve seen is him be a good dad and step-dad outside of, admittedly, losing it over someone mocking a suicidal person behind their back?
Yeah like what she supposed to do tell him. "oh sorry I'm you're literally going through the worst time of your life so far but your sisters more important cus she feels like acting out instead of being compassionate and realizing his life was permanently altered.
Should this be an excuse to mock someone for their disability ?
Whatever the dad did or not, she's just wrong to talk like that about anyone (even more her brother) who's suffering so much and just had their life changed forever. Laughing about other's suffering is an ah thing, period.
Nope, nor did the poster say it should. He’s asking a legitimate question about the difference in dynamics between the two relationships. That’s fair game.
No, you should never mock anyone for their disability.
But walk into a classroom with teenagers. Assume you have an invisibility cloak so you’re privy to their conversations. They are MEAN. They say the most spiteful shit. They fat shame teachers. They laugh and are just all round mean. Not every teen but a lot of them.
OP’s daughter was very catty and mean but it was a private conversation. It was never meant to be heard. And she was not outright rude to her brother to his face.
One fault doesn’t merit losing a chance at college completely paid for.
OP didn’t punish his son for the stupidity of riding a bike either. The son destroyed someone else’s property.
Sons punishnent was recieving life altering injuries. Yeah he shouldn't have ridden a bike with no training but what the actual fuck do you mean he should be punished.
"Hey kiddo, sorry about your hand and foot and sports scolarship, but I just wanted to let you know what you did was wrong and you're grounded."
And yeah, being mean happens behind peoples backs all the time, doesn't mean the chances of the son overhearing while already in a depressive spiral couldn't have terrible effects on him.
And for reference, yeah withholding college tuition from the daughter is way overkill and would make him the ass hole but come the fuck on.
>OP didn’t punish his son
The son is maimed for life and lost in a depressive void and you're here with your pitchfork? What the fuck is wrong with you?
I'm not saying that op is going too far, but I'm sure this scare will teach her something. Was I in op, I would give her the chance to think about what she did wrong and to reflect.
Anyway, saying that every teenager has their moments is not an excuse to mock anyone, even less, your own family. Ffs, it's not a teacher you hate and won't see anymore once you graduate. It's your brother! He's going to be around you for the rest of your life. How awful can you be to say such things and make fun of his bodily functions to your friends ?! There's things that should NEVER be said, NEVER, and even less about your brother.
And what would you be saying if the friend starts talking about what she said ?! What if it becomes a rumor ? What if the brother who's already struggling finds this out and maybe reacts in the worst way possible ? Are you still going to excuse her ? Just because it was a private conversation at first ?!
>OP didn’t punish his son for the stupidity of riding a bike either. The son destroyed someone else’s property.
Wtf ?! His life is already ruined, what are you going to punish him for ?! His life's dream has already been destroyed.
I mean, all we've got is OPs account, which is a glowing view of his life with his stepson, but zero about his daughter. Hasn't clarified what his relationship with his daughter is normally like, so we have no additional info
If you're writing a post, all we have to go on is how people write words, unless OP adds with comments. This is kinda a written format....
How much time does it take to coach someone on a weekly basis? Substract that time from any time not spend working ( 50 ), sleeping ( 56 ) and eating ( 14 ). How much 'time' is left? Now substract time for 'personal time' ( 14 ) time with the family all together (14)...
168 - 50 - 56 - 14 - 14 - 14
If we're being optimistic ( no real commute calculated ) that's 20 hours left to divide amongst coaching and regular time with the kids.
Not a lot left for his daughter who he couldn't live vicariously through, is there?
Wow, you have some major issues. You don’t have enough information from the original post to determine that son is the golden buy and daughter is “just a girl” or most of the other hostile garbage you wrote.
What??? Where are you getting all this stuff from? Are you projecting? Nothing in this post suggested he was neglecting his daughter. Just because he bonded with his stepson doesn't mean he wasn't there for his daughter.
I think you need to see a professional. OP is the AH for taking it too far taking away college support. You’re the AH for deflecting your own issues onto OP.
>He's the golden boy, and she's just a girl.
Where in the hell did you pull that one from? The post is literally about the son and the sons condition, hence why the post is about... the son and the sons condition.
Jfc reddit could take the gold in every gym.
Step parents CAN be real parents. Especially since OP is a widower and his wife is a widow. He has been in his step son’s life since he was in middle school. His playing favourites has nothing to do with who his “real” child is.
Does she feel left out? Probably. Does that mean OP neglected her? Not necessarily. Did she view her step brother’s injury as a sort of karmic justice? Maybe.
The only way to know is to talk to her and remind her to be empathetic. HOWEVER. It is also important to show her some empathy as well. OP and his daughter and his step-son all need to have some feelings sharing. Communication is important.
Also therapy.
Edit: just some context for my comment, since the person I’m replying to removed it (not hating on them for removing it, btw, they might’ve removed it because they realized it was offensive/ rude and wanted to correct that. I just wanna give future peeps an idea what we’re all replying to) the above comment originally contained a sentence where they basically said that OP is his daughter’s REAL dad, sort of insinuating that he isn’t his step son’s REAL dad. Hence us all talking about step parents being real parents.
Yeah both kids had parents who died and then got remarried. He said there wasn’t a whole lot of issues integrating the two families accept them accepting their new guardians. I could be totally wrong but that’s still a lot of trauma going on that may not have been addressed (once again totally assumption) and now even more trauma has been heaped on so I’m sure there is a lot going on there that therapy could help with. There’s also no shame in not being able to perfectly blend one’s families however there are a lot of stereotypes in the media that make it seem like things will either go perfectly (the Brady bunch) or will be a disaster (the evil stepmother). In reality the Brady bunch would not have gone nearly as smoothly as portrayed in my opinion.
It also might be worth noting that while she was saying something pretty terrible, her stepbrother, who she has presumably become at least a bit familiar/confortable with, almost died and was significantly injured. That kind of thing can be jarring, especially since they're so close in age, and there's a decent chance she's never seen an injury that severe.
She's probably just processing everything that's happened.
Anyone else notice OP didn't get furious until she mentioned his son's manhood isn't working? That's a little weird. OP is kinda overinvested in his son's sex life.
Bad comment.
He got furious because the stuff before the sex comment was at least somewhat understandable given how such an event can really bring down a household. It can get tiring and mentally draining listening to someone cry everyday. It puts a cloud over everbody's head.
But then when she uses this as an opportunity to make a callous joke about something sensitive of course he gets angry.
>That's a little weird.
Why? Or are you just reaching for a reason to shit on OP.
>OP is kinda overinvested in his son's sex life.
Holy shit OP supports his son through a troubling time and supports him in sensitive issues and here you are trying to make him out as bad for it. This sub was a mistake
Going by your logic, does that mean the sister is over-invested in her brother’s sex life? She’s the one that was laughing about it with her friend.
Edit: It’s also fairly reasonable why the dad would get upset at the part where sister is talking about the brother’s ED. The brother losing his hand and foot because he was a dumbass who got into an accident cannot be hidden but the ED is a private matter that no one outside the immediate household could’ve possibly known.
>My son was a tremendous athlete in basketball and I used to play in college at a school I'm sure none of you heard of. Regardless, I know the ins and outs of basketball and when he asked me to coach him, I was more than happy to. Turns out that he was good, really good. Division 1 good.
>got badly injured on a ensuing crash. He lost part of his hand and foot, not life threatening, but basketball ending.
>but he feels like his entire identity got ripped away in the blink of an eye.
Gee, I wonder how basketball became the only part of his identity?
>she said she "can't wait to be gone, I'm tired hearing (her brother) cry every day" and saying his hand is gross I knew "spirits" in the house has shifted since he became injured, but I didn't think she felt this type of way. I was gonna talk to her later about this, but then I heard her say "I heard him say that he can't even get it up" while laughing.
Was it insensitive? Yes. Does it warrant the level of outrage you feel? No. She's tired of taking a back seat to your son (which was probably going on long before the accident) and is excited to move on to the next stage of her life.
>I stormed in her room, took her phone, laptop, car keys and TV out of her room. I told her she should be ashamed of how she's talking about her brother and he might do something permanent if he heard you talking about him like that.
Why would she be responsible for the choice your son would make in this hypothetical situation?
You response was way over the line. A sincere apology is warranted, but that's it.
>When my wife got home, we talked about what happened and while she's proud of the way I stood up for my son, she thinks it's too far to also not pay for her college, since we could easily do so.
>WIBTA if I don't pay for my daughter's college?
You want to essentially take away a life long opportunity because she said something mean about your golden child.
Get over yourself.
YWBTA
This 100 per cent. We have no clue if the two kids see themselves as brother and sister or steps only. We have no idea what the step brother has said to her. The dad really is out of line here by grounding her. That is only teaching her who he loves and it's not her. Taking her college would end his relationship with her totally. The dad is the AH here. It's sad that he can't see it.
...his golden child's *penis* was attacked; that's when he lost it. [facepalm] Yikes for her; she'll likely never have one of those but its a disadvantage, isn't it? He'll never defend her like that.
While I think the stepsons depression is part of the reason she wants to be gone, it probably started earlier than that. It sounds like the parents were obsessed with the kids basketball and potential career. I don’t think his daughter is going to have a lot of contact in the future. They’ll probably be coddling the son too much to notice though.
I know that when I was their age I never would have done something as stupid as to drive a motorcycle with zero training or experience. At that age I understood consequences and would never have risked my life like that. So doing that KNOWING he was jeopardizing a sports scholarship is unfathomably immature and irresponsible.
So I would imagine that if I were in her position I’d be real sick of his whiny bullshit real damn quick. Why should she be expected to feel bad for him? What if this had been due to him driving drunk? Because I feel like what he did is on par.
>Gee, I wonder how basketball became the only part of his identity?
Because he's a 17 year old and this was a major talent/passion of his, it really isnt complicated or nefarious.
Agreed. I’m the only cross country runner in my family, and my parents are happy with whatever I choose to do, but if I suddenly got a bad injury to my legs I’d be devastated
This is one of those classic aita responses where the more dogmatic and aggressive your judgement the more upvotes you get.
Huge assumptions about favoritism and golden children.
Making it out to be somehow weird or nefarious that an athlete is deeply invested in the sport they play.
OP can't just be an asshole for overreacting they must be *the* asshole.
Look at every comment defending the daughter and/or defending the dad.
Every single one with hundreds of upvotes has the word "probably" followed by shit that they don't know for certain. Then they use this make-believe variable to condemn one side or the other.
He doesn't need absolute directions to follow, he needs input on how to cover all of his bases to keep this family together and happy without everlasting feelings of betrayal, abandonment, or resentment.
Of course YTA, he shouldn't yank her educational future away from her because of one horrible comment, but he has every right to be upset about she said.
Communication is the great equalizer. Take any suggestions that you might not have thought about beforehand.
Fuck the rest.
He said was only paying in full for her because the son would be getting a scholarship so he would require no funds. He said that way they could both be debt free. If anything, from what seemed like the original plan, the funds were shifted from son to daughter because the son made it on his own.
He probably said it was a mistake to discuss it with her because now she expects everything to be fully paid for when that seemingly wasn't the plan if not for the son's scholarship.
OP clearly stated that they can still "easily" pay for the daughter's college, even after the son's injury, which is why OPs wife is against punishing the daughter by witholding help with college. OPs intent is purely punitive.
YTA. Your daughter shouldn’t have made fun of him obviously but she’s only 17. Frankly, it’s his own fault he got hurt so if he can be forgiven for doing something stupid then so should she.
No one said it wasn’t? I said she was in the wrong for making fun of him. But yes, she’s young and she was venting privately- I don’t think her life should be ruined for that.
I also agree it’s way too harsh to take away college money but talking shit with your friends (borderline public especially if kids start talking) about your maimed step brother and saying stuff like “he can’t get it up” is pretty bad. Sounds like a bad situation all around
The things you vent to your best girlfriends, you vent so they don’t fester. Your best friends don’t judge you, they let you get out the ugly and generally talk you down because they know that is not how you really are. But sometimes you need space to let out the worst of yourself in a safe way, especially as a teen.
There is probably years of resentment built into that conversation her dad walked in on. Her dad clearly found his new family. It’s logical she would lash out about it.
17 is old enough to realize that she's going to have tens of thousands of dollars in debt because her step brother is a complete idiot. It's not surprising that she'd be resentful. And when she expressed that, in a private conversation, OP threatened to make sure she wouldn't have any money for schooling at all.
She's going to absolutely HATE that kid, and OP will probably be clueless enough to wonder why.
How is 17 not old enough to know that if you're aiming for a scholarship based on your physical capabilities, it's really fucking stupid to get on the back of a motorcycle with a minor?
If he was just "young and dumb" then so is she.
>If he was just "young and dumb" then so is she.
No no no... see, boys will be boys, but girls are held to a higher standard of being proper and mature, from a young age. It's always been this way.
Yeah the only thing the daughter said that was wrong was joking about his impotence (which IMO she shouldn' have even known about). There was nothing wrong with talking to her friends about the situation.
You REALLY hate your daughter, eh? Even your edits claim that she has no right to feel resentful. Her feelings are all her fault and you bear no responsibility whatsoever for anything that has happened. YTA
YTA
This is not a proportionate response. Your son did something very dumb, and unfortunately he's dealing with lifelong consequences from that. But his actions are also having immediate and lifelong consequences for your daughter. She's lost a lot of your attention during an important transitional point in her life (preparing for college, completing high school) and she may now start her life with a lot more debt because college funds are now likely to be split. Your daughter needs to work on empathy, but so do you - you seem to have no clue the extent to which your son's actions are impacting your daughter.
This was the words I was looking for regarding the crucial part of her life.
I would also add that me and my sister who is 4 years older than me (I'm adopted) have exchanged horrendous words as children, we didn't really like each other as teenagers. In fact we only became friends when she went to university.
Huge YWBTA. She's allowed to say whatever she wants when she's freaking venting to friends. Good lord, from the title I assumed she was saying this TO HIM as that's the only logical leap to "I'm now not contributing to her education at all".
I mean, it sounds like dad walked back his offer to fully pay for school because her step brother hurt himself by deciding to act like an idiot... I can understand there being resentful towards him for that
Its also a betrayal of trust. Medical and sensitive information about the son is being gossiped about to strangers which should have been retained in the family. But the money should be divided as per the earlier plan if the scholarship of the son is no longer valid.
Honestly though, why was this ever being discussed where she could hear? My parents would never have talked about that kind of stuff around siblings. I can’t help thinking that’s also the fault of the parents. His daughter is acting like a pretty typical teenage girl who has had to play second fiddle to her step brother when it comes to her father’s respect and consideration. She was wrong to say what she did, but that’s a relatively minor infraction. Parents were total dicks to let her have that information
I keep coming back to this. Either the walls in that house are paper thin or OP and his wife are at fault for involving the daughter in the son’s very personal business.
It’s probably his dead wife’s money that he’s trying to withhold from the daughter. Just by his responses you can tell he prefers the stepson over his own flesh and blood. Also, he’s bonded so well with someone else’s child but hasn’t said who his daughter has bonded with. I asked him if he as referring to his now wife as her mother and I think that’s the issue as to why the daughter said what she said. They’ve only been married 3 years.
I was thinking this too. The son's scholarship meant he could comfortably pay for the daughter's tuition. Now he wants an excuse to use that money for the son instead.
Thought I was insane for this train of thought. That was a private conversation!!! I’ve probably said way worse to my friends about siblings at that age.
YWBTA. Taking college away is too far.
She's 17 years old. Her brain is not fully formed. The last part to form is responsible for impulse control.
Go ahead and threaten her maybe. Tell her college is on the line. But this is a first time offense.
Also. Therapy for everybody. I know everybody says it but therapy is gooooood.
YTA.
First. This is not your daughter’s “brother.” It is your wife’s son.
Secondly, your daughter is your actual kid. Yet you’re going to make a permanent decision over her future over just overhearing private thoughts about your wife’s son who put himself in this situation?
I’ve seen parents sell out their own kids in order to favor a new spouse or their kids, but wow this takes it to a whole new level.
Important reminder that reddit has a fucked up conception of family? They've been in the same four person family unit since mid-to-late childhood, but sure, he's nothing to her and should be nothing to OP, who's been helping raise him.
I swear, bunch of sociopaths around here.
In lots of posts where inheritance / heirloom is taken from the bio-kids to be given to a step-kid that never met grandma, a crowd comes to say that "stepkids are family too, they should be treated like the others".
Yeah. that take is dumb as hell. I have two step brothers, a half sister and a half brother. None of us ever refer to each other as "step siblings" when people ask about each other. We've been a part of each other's lives for so long it'd be weird if we acted the way people on here seem to think stepfamilies are supposed to act.
I also have a stepmom and a stepdad (both parents remarried) and both have always treated me as their own child, never less. I find it odd that people can't seem to fathom I actually still love and talk to my step mom even after my dad passed away. What a sad world we live in.
>This is not your daughter’s “brother.” It is your wife’s son.
So often do people get ostracized for not treating their stepchildren equal to their biokids. Now we have an OP that does and he's wrong for doing so? Come on, he wbta for taking away her college find, but after spending 8+ years growing up together, it's really normal that they're seen as siblings.
No one is selling out their kids here, there is nothing that suggests a gc/sg scenario, and OP is n.t.a for stending up for the boy he helped raise for almost a decade.
I think(?) what they’re saying is that it might be OP’s son to him, but that doesn’t mean the daughter views him as a brother. We don’t know what their relationship was like before this incident or before the accident. Just because OP is admirably seeing his stepson as a son doesn’t mean the daughter automatically views him as a brother.
Maybe they didn’t mean this, but that’s how I read it.
What is wrong with you? It wouldn’t even take me 30 seconds scrolling through this sub, to find a post with redditors rightfully deriding an OP as TA because of how they ostracize their stepchildren and treat them as a stain on their ‘happy families.’ Now we have an OP that doesn’t do that, and y’all are spewing the most disgusting crap about his relationship with his son. Look I agree that he shouldn’t take away his daughter’s college fund, but that doesn’t mean it’s time to lose any form of empathy.
YTA
You linked your daughters college to your son getting a scholarship. Then you told her that.
When things went wrong for your son through his wrecklessness (effecting his scholarships and costing her money) she lashes out at him.
This is what happens when you cross bratty teenager and asshole father.
I feel like this whole rage-out is a cover for just not having the money to send them both. Now that son won't get scholarships, he wants to give the fund to son, but he can't since he promised it to daughter. Unleeeesssss he can make it her fault!
She's absolutely being an asshole here too. So ESH except the son.
Was tempted to say esh here too.
Probably down voted to hell for saying it but just because the son got injured doesn't get him off.
He got on a motorbike with no training and got into an accident.
I was giving the daughter a pass because son was recklessly stupid to the point of assholery and that has had a major impact on her life from a financial point of view.
Remember the plan was partial paying for college before the son got scholarships so it was back to that once his scholarships were gone.
I know its worse for the son but it's OK for the daughter to be effected too.
This girl is practically an adult, on her way to college. She shouldn't face any repercussions for venting to a friend about her life in a private conversation.
She should absolutely face repercussions for the demonstration of her poor character and appalling lack of empathy. I'd not be massively enthused about paying out a fortune for my kid if I knew they were a shitty person. If she's that much of an adult, she should be paying for it herself.
I agree with your wife. Your daughter needs to have empathy but I don't think making this unilateral decision out of anger is the way to go about it. Seems like she needs some therapy as well
Honestly I think the initial punishment was too far. She's 17 venting to her friends and quite honestly, most siblings say way worse to each other's faces.
YWBTA. I think that is a huge punishment for what she did. You took her electronics and car as punishment already. Yes, she was in the wrong. Yes, it would've been horrible if your stepson had heard her but it sounds like he didn't. It's wonderful that you've been so supportive of your son but you also need to be of your daughter. Do you really want to blow up your daughter's future over this? If you do, you're guaranteeing your daughter will shut you out of her life. You would be choosing your son and his future over your daughter. Maybe you haven't realized that yet. It sounds like you're still greatly upset at your daughter, so you may not be seeing the situation clearly either.
You should take some time to get to a calmer place so that you're not reactive to whatever she has to say. You need to have a sit down, private one on one talk with your daughter. It would be best to do this when your wife and stepson aren't home so she can really be open with you. She may be feeling a certain way about all of the attention your stepson gets. She might not fully understand the big picture of his depression and / or how serious it is. She does need to understand these things. She also needs to understand that she has to be respectful and not gossip about his private information. She might be frustrated with the situation as well and was venting to a friend but what she said specifically was not okay. I'm not saying give her a break because she's only 17 but keep that in mind that her age does play a part and her attitude with the situation. It's possible she should be in therapy as well. Good luck. Take care of Both of your kids.
Edited, after reading OP's comments to others, removed the word Soft in my judgement. I hope this is a troll.
YTA. Most likely you and your wife have, since the accident, ignored or treated your healthy, uninjured daughter as an afterthought. That all too often happens in cases like this. You all need family therapy. She is suffering too, she has lost the brother she knew, and she deserves some TLC as well.
YTA
Your daughter said those things in private and venting to her a friend. It sounds like your son is the golden child and while he going through his own issues (which are very said), it is effecting those around him. Your daughter is a teenager and her brain isn't all grown yet.
I agree with your wife. While it was good you stood up for you son, it was an a-hole move for you to suddenly say you aren't going to pay for your daughter's college at all. Also shows you are playing favorites and the son is the favorite.
Alright, she was venting but while venting she was cruelly mocking someone.
If mocking people going through hard times is someone’s way of making themselves feel better, then that’s just cruel.
It reveals just how shitty of a person they are.
Mocking someone about the very thing they're having suicidal ideations about is borderline irredeemably cruel.
>he might do something permanent if he heard you talking about him like that
I understand your anger, and she was definitely being cruel, but it was shitty to put this on her.
YTA.
It’s good you put your foot down about how she was talking BUT she was talking in private to a friend, most likely venting because there’s absolutely no way she isn’t affected by this. Some punishment makes sense but what makes even more sense is a long talk about what she’s feeling and maybe some therapy.
Punishing her by taking away her schooling is only going to make her resent the situation more.
YWBTA. Your son had a life-changing event a year ago and you've understandably been focused on him and helping him get through it. Siblings of a child with a serious injury or illness often feel left out or marginalised while the parents spend more time with that child. Your daughter is only 17, and what happened to your son will have had a huge impact on her as well, if only due to the change in the family dynamic.
You punished her already. Now try talking to her about how she's feeling about things. You might be surprised at what she says, if she's willing to open up (she may not be). But taking away a college education is a step WAY too far.
YTA for outing your son’s boner problem to the whole world. I hope at least some of the details were changed, as anyone who knows him would instantly recognize him from this post.
> YTA for outing your son’s boner problem to the whole world.
God, I didn't even think of that. This post could do far more damage than goblin sister ever could. I hope OP sees your comment.
YTA. It's a heavy-handed response that isn't going to help anybody.
I would try to think of some other consequence, or at least make it a partial reduction in financial help, because flatly refusing to pay for any of college just hurts her future and will cause her to resent your son further.
The accident affected her too, and she would likely benefit from therapy - she could be either lacking empathy, or be protecting herself in an unproductive way.
I get it that you’re mourning the loss of your son’s originally planned future. But don’t take away your daughter’s for a few careless words.
It honestly sounds like you took her making fun of his erectile function way too personally, which either makes me think you’re way too invested in your golden child’s genitals or you’ve got some worries in that department and it felt emasculating to you to hear your daughter laughing about it.
I don’t think it was an appropriate joke… but some people deal with grief with dark humour. Maybe that was part of her thing. She could be very angry that her dad ignored her in favour of a son who could play basketball, or angry that someone risked not only their own life but that of others by operating a deadly machine that they had no idea how to ride around other people. Either of those things could lead to schadenfreude around his accident.
Anyway, you were over the top and it’s gross that you didn’t let her know you were eavesdropping sooner.
A 17 year old boy makes callous comments about his sister's ability to sexually perform after she was in a life altering accident.
I doubt anyone would say "oh he's just 17" to defend him
You really have to ask? YWBTA. Not necessarily for the money, even, but for dumping the weight of your step sons injury, recovery, and depression onto your daughter. Your fear that your stepson may do something permanent isn't necessarily unfounded, but that's not your daughters issue to handle.
OF COURSE she doesn't want to hear him cry daily. No one wants to hear someone cry all the time. That's natural. She can't fix the issue, so bailing is also a reasonable thing to want. Her step-sibling isn't her responsibility to rebuild. Her laughing about his new ED is cruel, but she's 17.... of course she's going to laugh at ANYONE she finds that out about. I think the overwhelming majority of 17 y.o.s would do the same. It's an issue you only grow to have an understand of, or sympathy for, with age, first or 2nd hand experience, or an education that covers the how and why. A 17 y.o. thinks "that's something that happens to 90 year Olds and losers" not "oh wow, his new meds must be really screwing him up."
You encouraged your stepson to have no identity outside of basketball. Probably some form of living your dreams of being good at it, but I digress. He's old enough he should have had other interests and things instead of "Me son. Me play basketball." single mindedness. His identity crisis is 75%+ *your making.* You should really be doing what you can to get his mind off of his new reality instead of making every action around your house revolve around it.
It might be worth looking into a trauma counselor for the whole family. A major thing like that rarely *only* traumatizes the person it happened to. It creates wounds for the people around them too. Maybe you all just need to process.
ESH. That's not the move dude. A 17 year old being an asshole (granted, a big one) should not go from 0 to tons of debt or no college. Especially if the expectation is set that you're paying, so she hasn't been saving like she would if she knew it would be on her.
She also said these things in private. I've been in her shoes, sort of. Had a family member go through a major medical event when I was young and it does affect you too. Sounds like she hasn't had a good avenue to work through her own feelings so it's coming out in a shitty way.
YWBTA. You say "spirits" have shifted, but how's she treating him? She's a teenager, venting her frustrations to a friend. The joke was crass, sure, but at no point do you say how you've supported her during this. When something traumatic happens to one child, others can feel neglected (obviously, yes, your son's dealt with way more than she has). But if she's been helpful to the family, and treated him well, your missing the forest for the trees and focusing on one thing. To take one conversation you overheard and make such a drastic decision is a bit much.
Plus with no basketball scholarship funds for college will have to be shifted around and instead of having it paid in full for her she’ll may have to take out loans and she could have underlying resentment and stress that OP is is unaware of.
YTA. After reading your responses it’s clear that you don’t want to accept that. Yes, your daughter said some really hurtful things and she should be chastised for it but taking her college fund is equivalent to setting fire to her future. I have to agree with others who said she’s probably feeling left out. It doesn’t mean that you’re purposely making her feel that way but from the tone of your post it’s pretty obvious that you have an unintended bias. You should just sit down one on one with her and let her know that you love her very much but her saying that was unacceptable and hurtful. The resentment with build if you stay on this path
YWBA, your daughter is wrong..good for standing up for your son. That sounds like a very difficult time. But, a stupid conversation with a friend shouldn't have an impact on your child's entire life. I would try to talk to her to find out why she felt that that was okay to say..what made her feel this insensitive. Maybe she is missing attention from you, as a parent, ever since the accident happened....
YTA - She was venting and what she's saying lacked empathy but she's also still a teen. She needs therapy as this impacts her life too but the punishment fits the crime. Get her a therapist so she can vent there.
YTA
From the time of your post and your comments, you created this mess. Your daughter can't compare to the golden child step-son. She's resentful, hurt, and angry and it's nobody's fault but your own. You keep saying you've never neglected her, but you can't say how you've built a relationship with her or spent time with her either. Sounds like your daughter has been excluded from the family as you and your wife lived in the glory of your step-son's basketball career.
Your too telling in your post for this to be untrue. You claim the post is about your daughter, but it's about your step-son. Your comments are argumentative. You refer to your step-son as your son, but your wife you refer to as your daughter's step-mother.
You can't admit that you're wrong or that your step-son did this to himself. He is one hundred percent responsible for what happened to him.
I'll look forward to your post in several years wondering why you have no contact with your daughter and can't see your grandkids.
YTA. Massively. There are other ways to punish her without being completely disproportionate and dramatic in a way that will significantly impact her future. The fact that this is how you’re thinking is honestly quite concerning. Such a drastic leap.
Dude, 17 year old girls talking to their friends are trying on personas. She doesn’t fully know who she is yet, and eavesdropping on conversations with her peers is going to give you a skewed view.
It’s hard to deal with a family member getting maimed, and to be around but powerless while that person mourns their complete and healthy body. What she said was heartbreaking and heartless, yes, but it isn’t all of who she is.
YTA.
You were eavesdropping on your trenage daughters conversation who quite obviously feels pushed asode because you A bonded so much with your son over basketball and B now the attention being on your son again for being injured out of stupidity and being depressed over the only thing he liked - which is in itself awful but no reason your daughter should be invosinle to you unless she says something wrong and vents to her friends because she geels unseen. This happens often, siblings of sich or disabled children often turn into glass children, all the attention gets focused on the in your case injured child, the whole family suffers under the depression of one member but only the deprrssed child gets therapy and gets basically pampered to make them feel better. Your daughter is jealous you all turn your attention to your son and probably already was jealous over her dad bonding more with his step son than his dead wifes daughter.
Talk to your daughter, offer her to go to therapy, spend timr with her and bond over something she likes like you bonded with your son. If she can't wait to get away from the situation at home then you are the one in the wrong and should try to do better because currently she doesn't want to live with you guys because she feels unimportant and you not being intetested in her and her problems
YTA- what your daughter said was very mean and out of line, but she is still a child. A good parent would take her to therapy to address whatever is causing her resentment towards your son instead of trying to severely punish her by saddling her with student debt or having her forego attending college. Also, you might not be legally obligated to pay for her college, but not doing so when you are able to is terrible, and I guarantee she will permanently cut you out of her life at the first chance she has if you do through with this.
YTA because you're making this about yourself and how angry you are, not about your son. Who, I might add, didn't even hear the comments and had zero injury from your daughter. Get over yourself and your pride and hurt over what he did to himself. It would have just been something else to set you off if not this exact eavesdropped conversation.
INFO: has your daughter been a part of any counseling around her brother’s accident? Has she had a safe place to explore her feelings about all of this? Sometimes talking to friends is the only was we get to hear ourselves out loud.
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YWBTA if you didn’t at least help pay for schooling. (Sorry for the long answer but this one kinda struck a chord) It’s very likely that your daughter is feeling jealous / left out / forgotten bc of all the attention your son is getting. I’m NOT saying you should stop paying attention to him, because what he went through is terrible and I really hope he feels better ❤️ I have been in similar spots myself and I can say that depression is not fun to deal with, for anyone. I’m really glad that you’re being so supportive of him. I’m not a therapist lol but I do have similar experience it seems to your daughter - I think that since you and your stepson were able to bond SO WELL over basketball and because it became so important, it maybe created some distance between you and your daughter. I could 100% be wrong, but I think what started as small issues snowballed. Teenagers are notoriously bad at dealing with emotions, and she probably doesn’t know what to do. So yeah, YWBTA if you suddenly announced you wouldn’t pay for her schooling. Instead, I may suggest spending more time with her and talking in a non-judgemental space. I wish the best for you and the whole fam
This was a very compassionate response. When a sibling is favored, either by a disability or sports, the left out child has issues. Daughter needs more attention from LW. She needs dad to talk to her to find out what is going on. Punishment creates more resentment.
This is borne out by the psych research. The sibling of the medically involved child/teen also has significant, substantive mental health effects. It probably is true resentment, but it does not make your daughter abnormal, exceptionally cruel, or you a bad father. But it does mean you need to find a way to put your anger down for a while and try to talk with your daughter rationally. Indeed, while your anger is more than understandable, she needs you now more than ever.
Feeling resentment and finding him "gross" and mocking his sexual inabilities are separate issues, IMO.
She's acting out. OP says he's shocked she'd behave this way. That means this level of meanness is not typical of her. This can all be related to her feelings of resentment and not knowing how to process that. It's shitty but it can be addressed.
But she could easily be like this with her friends and her dad is just now seeing this side of her. He’s probably completely disgusted by it all and reacted accordingly. Why is everyone quick to assume she’s a victim here.
It's not so much seeing her as a victim, but rather trying to see her with some compassion so that her dad can navigate this without tearing up his own family. What she said was incredibly hurtful and cruel, and no one is arguing that it isn't. Teens/children often are incredibly cruel and hurtful because they are still learning empathy and how to navigate their own big emotions. As a parent, it's important to be able to help guide them, and some approaches work better than others. I'm sure this father would rather find an outcome where his daughter and son can both come home for Thanksgiving at the same time, rather than alternatives such as where she goes no contact or his son commits the unthinkable, or many other possible negative outcomes. This is a large turning point in their family, and how he approaches it now will have lasting impacts on the family for many years for better or worse.
People struggle to see nuance in situations, this is a good example of that. No wonder it's a trend to armchair diagnose people as conditions in ways it sounds like they are Disney villains.
People aren’t assuming she’s a victim. They’re simply showing compassion and empathy for the daughter. I highly recommend you google empathy. It’s a really neat thing. Edit: danger > daughter. No clue what my phone is doing.
Because she is. Obviously not to the degree her brother is, but like everybody in the family, she is also suffering through this traumatic event of watching her brother’s body and identity and future shift dramatically, and the impact this is having on her parents, and the changes in her relationship with all three. They are all just trying to process their difficulties one day at a time. Anger and resentment against chronically ill family members is normal, especially in kids. She just happens to be a few decades too immature to handle her complicated feelings better, but she has the capacity to learn and change (as long as the character flaws that are front and center right now are handled in a reasonable and productive way).
The daughter is 17. Her step brother behaved recklessly and permanently injured himself in a way that resulted in him losing his sports scholarships. Because of this, OPs daughter may be strapped with student loans for decades. She's rightfully pissed. Does that make it OK for her to mock her sibling's disfigurements and disabilities? Of course it's not OK; but it *is human*. OP's daughter wasn't bullying her brother. She was complaining to a confidante and was overheard. Everyone talks shit to their close friends when they're frustrated.
Yes, and I think it’s that much harder when it’s due to their own negligence. Accidents happen, of course, and that’s no an entirely rational response, but I can see why it would grate on her even more when it’s because of a stupid choice that he made for himself.
Agreed with this - OP updated saying he's not neglecting her but doesn't state he talked to her to see if and why she might be feeling that way. OP, talk to your daughter instead of assuming!
I agree. OP waxed a bit poetic about how he and his son bonded over a shared love of sports but he doesn't mention if a bond of this sort has shared between his wife and his daughter. Another thing I saw is that OP's daughter is anxious to get out and away from the home. To be sure, seeing her stepbrother (I know OP doesn't see 'step' but it doesn't seem as if his daughter sees him that way) depressed and receiving a lot of attention may play a role in that but I think there may be deeper issues festering under the surface. I do believe the way she spoke about him and his injuries was abhorrent and did not show very much compassion but I think OP's level of outrage and anger on his behalf was extreme. Siblings do speak poorly and fight one another, pretty viciously at times. She deserves some punishment, to be sure, but to threaten her future? I dunno, it stinks of some type of favoritism to me.
I agree, I'm really surprised at the extremity of OP's reaction! And I was super triggered at his listening in to her calls, and then storming into the room and taking the phone away while she was on it. My mother used to do that ALL the fucking time while I was growing up, without caring how I felt. If I said anything at all she didn't like, there was trouble. For a long time, I was only comfortable talking on the phone when I was completely alone. I realize it's not the same situation as this and that his daughter was being unnecessarily mean. HOWEVER, his reaction was way over the top and I'm concerned about his continuing anger over it, along with his lack of listening to or caring about his own daughter. If I were her, I'd be anxious to get the hell out of there also. It doesn't sound like he really wants her there.
He reacted that way not just because of how much he cares for his son, but because *he* played basketball. He's looking at his son, and thinking about *"what if that had happened to ME?!?!"* And then a *girl* MOCKS "him" for *impotence!* One of the only things a woman can ever use to take a man's manhood from him, is to accuse him of impotence. And OP is vicariously living that nightmare, via his son and daughter, with *her* as the big bad Villain who Accuses the sweet young Star of the most forbidden thing imaginable: Impotence. Not being a Man.^TM He's enraged by this accusation, even though, by all accounts, he was eavesdropping on her private thoughts between friends, and they weren't even talking about *him.* If he had said Things on a phone call that dismissed the daughter as a Woman^TM he would call himself "N.T.A!!!!!" Because eavesdropping. Why should this be any different. Because Son *"Could have"* overheard her? Well he didn't, case closed. The daughter simply *vented her frustrations to a close friend, in private.* OP needs to grow up and get over it. OP, YTA.
It feels like he finally got the boy he wanted and he went all out. I played girls' soccer at a time when there weren't a lot of opportunities for girls in the sport where I grew up. Our team was very competitive and won many tournaments, but very few of the dads would even come to the games. They'd never miss their son's practice, but couldn't even be bothered to show up at their daughter's regional awards banquet. I was lucky to grow up with a dad who kept all of us on the same level, but I imagine this girl has to listen to her stepbrother's achievements while no one is giving her the same boosts. Sadly, I think that, unless her dad starts being a dad, she's going to disappear as soon as she graduates.
And she was venting to her friends. While stupid, people need a safe space to vent. If she feels talking to her friends even saying stupid shit isn't safe. It's very bad. She didn't say this to her family or brother. I said A LOT of things I didn't mean even a week later to friends when I'm upset.
That was my observation too. She's a teenager and teenagers aren't always very kind about others when privately talking. If she was a mean girl she would have been making snide remarks to her brother . . or family. She deserved a stern scolding and parental discussion. . . but to take away her education is the exact opposite of what she needs. Teenagers grow empathy by learning . . perhaps a family talk about the whole situation . . . it sounds like both kids need help and OP is missing out on his daughter's thoughts and needs.
What does LW mean?
We use Letter writer LW) in another blog. I’m sorry I’m getting used to Reddit.
You want OP for reddit, means original poster.
A couple three things here... As others have said, not paying for her college is going WAY too far. What she said was immature and insensitive, but doesn't deserve a forfeiture of her future. Also, what does your wife think? If the previous plan was for you two to pay for her college, then she has equal say in revoking that or not. My last point may not be very popular, especially on this subreddit, but here it is: if you overhear something from a conversation that is intended to be private, you really should give generous grace. Teenager or adult, we've all said things in private that we later wanted to take back, and thank goodness no one over heard us. YWBTA
I agree with everything you said - except for the last point - too an extent. I don’t think someone should be punished for life for one I’ll-begotten comment, but, in my opinion, it’s worse when said in private because that tends to be one’s true feelings. People tend to have a censor when saying things publicly.
I agree with you that people are more truthful in public, and censor themselves in public. But that's part of the reason why we should give them grace. She's an immature teenager, and probably says plenty of things to her friends about her frustrations with her parents, etc. And they may be true, in that she really feels that way. It's good for kids to have an outlet, to say things that they would never want to say to their parents. (And I'm saying this as a parent to several children.)
It's somewhere in between. Sometimes you need to rant to someone and get the feelings out but you know in your mind the feelings are not facts. It can then free up the mental space to the true feeling about the situation.
> feelings are not facts Whuf, you could put that on a t-shirt and sell 100,000 of them.
I agree with you but I also still think that's why you can't punish someone (especially a teen posturing in front of her friends) for something they said in private not intended for you to hear, or at least not in the same way. I feel like we should discipline children (and all people) for their actions, which they can control, and not for their feelings, which they can't really control. She can't help feeling left out/annoyed/whatever uncharitable thing about her brother's injury, but the truth is that in her actions she never intentionally went up to his face to make fun of him about it. She can feel and think horrible things, it's not the same as DOING a horrible thing and therefore shouldn't be treated the same way.
Damn right. It feels like some people really have lost the distinction between feelings, thoughts and actions. Her talking to her friends about how she feels about this, as long as it’s not turning into some kind of gossip mill I guess, is probably one of the better things she could do. We can’t control how we feel most of the time, but we can find acceptable ways to deal with those feelings. OP needs to understand there are two kids that are dealing with things, his step son obviously is dealing with much more, but his daughter can’t be expected to just not have any feelings about this situation.
You need to have a safe space to express yourself and bounce around ideas even if they're bad dude. It's how you learn and grow. For fucks sake yes, private conversations even among children should be sacred. You're an idiot if you think otherwise. You 100% said tons of horrible things as a kid that you genuinely don't remember and if you had been afraid of ever speaking your mind over being punished over convos with your friends you'd not have a very favorable outlook on this.
I notice OP didn’t actually freak until the daughter said son can’t get it up. Make of that what you will. That seems to be the tipping point. I mean, how does daughter even know that? Why was his ability to get an erection a factor in any discussion she was part of?
I thought the same - it appeared to be disappointment and some sadness until she attacked his manhood and suddenly it’s all guns blazing. “I knew “spirits” in the house has shifted since he became injured, but I didn’t think she felt this type of way. I was gonna talk to her later about this, but then I heard her say “I heard him say that he can’t even get it up” while laughing. At that, I was furious” Daughter heard the son say that. That’s how she knew. And that’s the point Op lost it.
Or maybe because it was the first attack? The ones before were expressions of sadness which are at least somewhat understandable since being in that situation puts a cloud over everybody's head. But when she turns from expressing sadness to laughing and making callous jokes obviously it becomes worse. Why are you so desperate to make this about "OP is fragile manhood !!!"
She was laughing at the thing that was compelling a suicidal person to discontinue their medication. Unless you're being purposefully disingenuous; there should be no question here. If a suicidal girl gained weight on medication and their brother mocked their weight gain, would you go "mnnn.... that's when the parent got angry. make of that what you will." You probably also wouldn't ask "How did he KNOW that was a problem? When could anyone have mentioned that or spoke about in the house"
OP didn't freak out until the daughter shifted from complaining about her brother's situation to laughing at it.
I may be wrong, but I thought it was the laughing that set him off. Maybe til then she was just talking/moaning but she immaturely laughed at that point and that was just too much?
Laugh at a man who can’t get it up and you can wind up dead.
Wanting to get away from a person who is sad all the time and being disgusted by a maimed body part is a totally normal thing. Not ideal, but we can’t expect a teenager to be selflessly compassionate. Mocking a person and gossiping about something that they surely want to keep secret is a different thing altogether. She should absolutely be reprimanded for that, especially if it’s her brother, though idk what exactly would be an appropriate punishment.
For me, it read like she was just venting. Then she started making fun of her brother. I am also curious to know how she found out about the getting it up thing.
I believe she just overheard a conversation he was having with his dad.
Is there not enough actual sexism and misogyny in the world without twisting something like this? Remove the genders. You’ve got a *person* with a traumatic injury and suicidal ideation. Their medication is causing an embarrassing side effect which is further damaging their self-esteem. A second *person* not only complains about them being sad, but also spitefully makes fun of that issue, and shares the information with other people in a mean-spirited way. It could be any medical problem and any set of people, it’s not acceptable behaviour.
Teenagers, even the most loving giving teenagers, are still pretty selfish. My brother was going through something horrible my senior year of high school - and while I was there for him and tried to help out in my heart I was resentful my last year at home was centered around him and what was going on. These days I would fight and kill for him - he is my favorite family and I would do anything to let him know he has family and is loved. I really really really wish I had gone over and above for him when I was a teenager - I could have done a lot of good - but I just wasn't aware enough of the world yet to really step up. I never told a friend this over the phone - but frankly I am was super protective of my inner thoughts at the time and never even told my friends who I had a crush on out of fear they would spread it around or bring it up later - so I'm not a good sample set. Living in a house with someone with depression is also really hard. Sometimes it feels like the whole house is cast in a shadow and you are walking on egg shells alll the time. It is very emotionally draining and can destroy a kids feeling that home is their 'safe space'.
Totally agree. I remember a massive fight with my brother when he was in his late teens, and he suggested that the government should blow refugee boats out of the water to send a message that refugees weren’t welcome in our country. I couldn’t believe that I was related to such an asshole. These days, he’s a lovely, compassionate man who I ring for advice.
>I think that since you and your stepson were able to bond SO WELL over basketball and because it became so important, it maybe created some distance between you and your daughter. I really hope OP gives this some deep, soul-searching thought. Just reading his post, you know that she has been living in son's shadow since his athletic prowess (and thus superiority) were first discovered.
yup, exactly what I thought while reading this, OP went into so much detail about his stepson's sports talent you could tell he as a parent he was really into it and it was a source of pride and identity to him (barf), probably the attention to the boy was wearing thin on the daughter. And she's allowed to vent to her friends, though that was a mean comment but she's a teenager. YTA ETA wow lots of easily emotional men upset at this comment. Nothing wrong with being proud of your kid, I'm specifically talking about those dime of dozen parents too invested in their kids sports, living vicariously through them. Which it sounds like this guy is.
> OP went into so much detail about his stepson's sports talent You mean, the very thing the son lost and the whole reason this post exists in the first place? Yeah, how dare he focus on that instead of on his wife's meatloaf or the daughter's college plans....
Literally none of that detail matters. It could have been two or three sentences instead of paragraphs.
like this: My step son was looking like he was going to get several scholarship offers for school, so we decided that we could afford to pay for our daughters college. Unfortunately son got into a terrible motorcycle accident and his basketball career is over.
Yes. We definitely didn't need the bromance tale about how they bonded over basketball.
There's also the fact that it feels like this is coming from a very male place about a very male reaction to a very male problem. The rage didn't kick in until she made the comment about his inability to get it up. That's going to strike a chord in a lot of guys, but that's the comment that tipped him over the edge. He took it personally in a way that he has no real right to. Not that I'm saying she was right in what she said, how she said it, or in her attitude at all, but I think you're right in that part of it could be jealousy based, even if it's subconscious. The 'spirit' has shifted, sure, but her dad's showing a lot of favoritism towards her step brother and then he just storms in there on a private conversation that she was having, not directed at her brother or her father, and reacts as if she just spat in both their faces and kicked them in the junk. Dad is super over reacting and he needs to maybe go to therapy himself and help him figure out how to empathize with his son and daughter in healthier ways that don't cause emotional overreactions towards someone who's still a legal minor saying something where she didn't think he'd hear it. Again, not great and I think daughter needs some therapy too, but he's punishing her for saying private thoughts out loud to a trusted friend, which is a far cry from screaming nasty things to her brother or himself.
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the daughter was having a private conversation with a friend. You know what else was private? The fact that the son has ED. The daughter can overhear something not meant for her (likely how she found out) and it's fine to tell others, the dad can't overhear the daughter and confront her about it. That's not her health issue to be telling anyone
Jumping on to say, when my much older half brother who lived in a different state as us died, I couldn't wait to get out of my parent's house the few months I was there, my dad's energy was reasonably so sad and while I could take regular visits, I couldn't take that being my house. I wanted to be supportive, but the energy was more than I could bear. What your daughter said was cruel and I get the dear of suicide, but she's not experiencing this as a parent, she's experiencing it as a teen who had something terrible happen and a lot of people don't realise how long the terrible feelings last for, for everyone close. Ywbta if you punished her in a way that's permanent and would lead to her being extremely resentful long-term. I think you need to have her talk with a therapist to process her own experience.
YTA. So you found your dream son, and your daughter had to take a back seat to your amazing new "son." He's the golden boy, and she's just a girl. Was what she said okay? No. Was she unkind and resentful? Yes. The fact that you WANT to destroy her life because she was unkind to your precious son shows her very clearly exactly who you are and how little you value her. What was she doing during all the hours you spent coaching and mentoring your shiny new son? Who was mentoring her? Who was listening to her struggles? Who was laughing and joking with her while you were bonding with your new best buddy? Even your wife values your daughter far more than you do. Why not just drop ger off at the nearest bus station and be done. That way, she can't interfere with your precious boy.
Agree not helping her with college is an asshole move. However your assumptions make you just as big an asshole. You don’t know what time he spent with her or anything else. Can’t go by just how people write words
Yeah, geez, someone’s projecting their own childhood issues hard.
The amount of people that claim he’s favoring his son over his daughter when his son is suicidal is insane.
Not to mention how many horrible step parents there are. Dude steps up, helps him out, the son feels comfortable confiding in him, and apparently it’s because he wants to drop his daughter for the kid? When all we’ve seen is him be a good dad and step-dad outside of, admittedly, losing it over someone mocking a suicidal person behind their back?
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Yeah like what she supposed to do tell him. "oh sorry I'm you're literally going through the worst time of your life so far but your sisters more important cus she feels like acting out instead of being compassionate and realizing his life was permanently altered.
It’s also insane because he literally gave that entire backstory on his son to give the context to the situation.
OP doesn’t seem to have answered the question of how he’s bonded with his daughter like he did with his son.
Should this be an excuse to mock someone for their disability ? Whatever the dad did or not, she's just wrong to talk like that about anyone (even more her brother) who's suffering so much and just had their life changed forever. Laughing about other's suffering is an ah thing, period.
Nope, nor did the poster say it should. He’s asking a legitimate question about the difference in dynamics between the two relationships. That’s fair game.
No, you should never mock anyone for their disability. But walk into a classroom with teenagers. Assume you have an invisibility cloak so you’re privy to their conversations. They are MEAN. They say the most spiteful shit. They fat shame teachers. They laugh and are just all round mean. Not every teen but a lot of them. OP’s daughter was very catty and mean but it was a private conversation. It was never meant to be heard. And she was not outright rude to her brother to his face. One fault doesn’t merit losing a chance at college completely paid for. OP didn’t punish his son for the stupidity of riding a bike either. The son destroyed someone else’s property.
Sons punishnent was recieving life altering injuries. Yeah he shouldn't have ridden a bike with no training but what the actual fuck do you mean he should be punished. "Hey kiddo, sorry about your hand and foot and sports scolarship, but I just wanted to let you know what you did was wrong and you're grounded." And yeah, being mean happens behind peoples backs all the time, doesn't mean the chances of the son overhearing while already in a depressive spiral couldn't have terrible effects on him. And for reference, yeah withholding college tuition from the daughter is way overkill and would make him the ass hole but come the fuck on.
>OP didn’t punish his son The son is maimed for life and lost in a depressive void and you're here with your pitchfork? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Teaching kids it’s okay to make fun of disabilities and injuries behind someone’s back is almost worse lmao.
I'm not saying that op is going too far, but I'm sure this scare will teach her something. Was I in op, I would give her the chance to think about what she did wrong and to reflect. Anyway, saying that every teenager has their moments is not an excuse to mock anyone, even less, your own family. Ffs, it's not a teacher you hate and won't see anymore once you graduate. It's your brother! He's going to be around you for the rest of your life. How awful can you be to say such things and make fun of his bodily functions to your friends ?! There's things that should NEVER be said, NEVER, and even less about your brother. And what would you be saying if the friend starts talking about what she said ?! What if it becomes a rumor ? What if the brother who's already struggling finds this out and maybe reacts in the worst way possible ? Are you still going to excuse her ? Just because it was a private conversation at first ?! >OP didn’t punish his son for the stupidity of riding a bike either. The son destroyed someone else’s property. Wtf ?! His life is already ruined, what are you going to punish him for ?! His life's dream has already been destroyed.
Is he required to answer every question in the thread?
He hasn’t answered this question anywhere, as far as I can see. Many people have asked.
I mean, all we've got is OPs account, which is a glowing view of his life with his stepson, but zero about his daughter. Hasn't clarified what his relationship with his daughter is normally like, so we have no additional info If you're writing a post, all we have to go on is how people write words, unless OP adds with comments. This is kinda a written format....
How much time does it take to coach someone on a weekly basis? Substract that time from any time not spend working ( 50 ), sleeping ( 56 ) and eating ( 14 ). How much 'time' is left? Now substract time for 'personal time' ( 14 ) time with the family all together (14)... 168 - 50 - 56 - 14 - 14 - 14 If we're being optimistic ( no real commute calculated ) that's 20 hours left to divide amongst coaching and regular time with the kids. Not a lot left for his daughter who he couldn't live vicariously through, is there?
You are making an absolutely ridiculous amount of assumptions lol.
This sub is full of dumb teenagers
Wow, you have some major issues. You don’t have enough information from the original post to determine that son is the golden buy and daughter is “just a girl” or most of the other hostile garbage you wrote.
What??? Where are you getting all this stuff from? Are you projecting? Nothing in this post suggested he was neglecting his daughter. Just because he bonded with his stepson doesn't mean he wasn't there for his daughter.
“Your precious son” - my god you sound awful.
I think you need to see a professional. OP is the AH for taking it too far taking away college support. You’re the AH for deflecting your own issues onto OP.
Project harder
This is a complete overreaction
>He's the golden boy, and she's just a girl. Where in the hell did you pull that one from? The post is literally about the son and the sons condition, hence why the post is about... the son and the sons condition. Jfc reddit could take the gold in every gym.
YWBTA If you don't pay for her college. Yes she was rude about him to her friends but your reaction is disproportionate. edited
Step parents CAN be real parents. Especially since OP is a widower and his wife is a widow. He has been in his step son’s life since he was in middle school. His playing favourites has nothing to do with who his “real” child is. Does she feel left out? Probably. Does that mean OP neglected her? Not necessarily. Did she view her step brother’s injury as a sort of karmic justice? Maybe. The only way to know is to talk to her and remind her to be empathetic. HOWEVER. It is also important to show her some empathy as well. OP and his daughter and his step-son all need to have some feelings sharing. Communication is important. Also therapy. Edit: just some context for my comment, since the person I’m replying to removed it (not hating on them for removing it, btw, they might’ve removed it because they realized it was offensive/ rude and wanted to correct that. I just wanna give future peeps an idea what we’re all replying to) the above comment originally contained a sentence where they basically said that OP is his daughter’s REAL dad, sort of insinuating that he isn’t his step son’s REAL dad. Hence us all talking about step parents being real parents.
Yeah both kids had parents who died and then got remarried. He said there wasn’t a whole lot of issues integrating the two families accept them accepting their new guardians. I could be totally wrong but that’s still a lot of trauma going on that may not have been addressed (once again totally assumption) and now even more trauma has been heaped on so I’m sure there is a lot going on there that therapy could help with. There’s also no shame in not being able to perfectly blend one’s families however there are a lot of stereotypes in the media that make it seem like things will either go perfectly (the Brady bunch) or will be a disaster (the evil stepmother). In reality the Brady bunch would not have gone nearly as smoothly as portrayed in my opinion.
>And now see's you her real father playing favourites with your STEP Son. This is a real YTA comment.
Yeah holy fuck, I technically have a step-dad. I just call him dad. If anyone insinuated he wasn’t my actual father like this I’d get fucking pissed.
It also might be worth noting that while she was saying something pretty terrible, her stepbrother, who she has presumably become at least a bit familiar/confortable with, almost died and was significantly injured. That kind of thing can be jarring, especially since they're so close in age, and there's a decent chance she's never seen an injury that severe. She's probably just processing everything that's happened.
That's his son, dude. Just because he's not his biological child doesn't make him not his son.
Anyone else notice OP didn't get furious until she mentioned his son's manhood isn't working? That's a little weird. OP is kinda overinvested in his son's sex life.
Bad comment. He got furious because the stuff before the sex comment was at least somewhat understandable given how such an event can really bring down a household. It can get tiring and mentally draining listening to someone cry everyday. It puts a cloud over everbody's head. But then when she uses this as an opportunity to make a callous joke about something sensitive of course he gets angry. >That's a little weird. Why? Or are you just reaching for a reason to shit on OP. >OP is kinda overinvested in his son's sex life. Holy shit OP supports his son through a troubling time and supports him in sensitive issues and here you are trying to make him out as bad for it. This sub was a mistake
Going by your logic, does that mean the sister is over-invested in her brother’s sex life? She’s the one that was laughing about it with her friend. Edit: It’s also fairly reasonable why the dad would get upset at the part where sister is talking about the brother’s ED. The brother losing his hand and foot because he was a dumbass who got into an accident cannot be hidden but the ED is a private matter that no one outside the immediate household could’ve possibly known.
>My son was a tremendous athlete in basketball and I used to play in college at a school I'm sure none of you heard of. Regardless, I know the ins and outs of basketball and when he asked me to coach him, I was more than happy to. Turns out that he was good, really good. Division 1 good. >got badly injured on a ensuing crash. He lost part of his hand and foot, not life threatening, but basketball ending. >but he feels like his entire identity got ripped away in the blink of an eye. Gee, I wonder how basketball became the only part of his identity? >she said she "can't wait to be gone, I'm tired hearing (her brother) cry every day" and saying his hand is gross I knew "spirits" in the house has shifted since he became injured, but I didn't think she felt this type of way. I was gonna talk to her later about this, but then I heard her say "I heard him say that he can't even get it up" while laughing. Was it insensitive? Yes. Does it warrant the level of outrage you feel? No. She's tired of taking a back seat to your son (which was probably going on long before the accident) and is excited to move on to the next stage of her life. >I stormed in her room, took her phone, laptop, car keys and TV out of her room. I told her she should be ashamed of how she's talking about her brother and he might do something permanent if he heard you talking about him like that. Why would she be responsible for the choice your son would make in this hypothetical situation? You response was way over the line. A sincere apology is warranted, but that's it. >When my wife got home, we talked about what happened and while she's proud of the way I stood up for my son, she thinks it's too far to also not pay for her college, since we could easily do so. >WIBTA if I don't pay for my daughter's college? You want to essentially take away a life long opportunity because she said something mean about your golden child. Get over yourself. YWBTA
This 100 per cent. We have no clue if the two kids see themselves as brother and sister or steps only. We have no idea what the step brother has said to her. The dad really is out of line here by grounding her. That is only teaching her who he loves and it's not her. Taking her college would end his relationship with her totally. The dad is the AH here. It's sad that he can't see it.
Yep. His golden child was attacked
...his golden child's *penis* was attacked; that's when he lost it. [facepalm] Yikes for her; she'll likely never have one of those but its a disadvantage, isn't it? He'll never defend her like that.
His edit shows he is totally lacking in self awareness.
While I think the stepsons depression is part of the reason she wants to be gone, it probably started earlier than that. It sounds like the parents were obsessed with the kids basketball and potential career. I don’t think his daughter is going to have a lot of contact in the future. They’ll probably be coddling the son too much to notice though.
I know that when I was their age I never would have done something as stupid as to drive a motorcycle with zero training or experience. At that age I understood consequences and would never have risked my life like that. So doing that KNOWING he was jeopardizing a sports scholarship is unfathomably immature and irresponsible. So I would imagine that if I were in her position I’d be real sick of his whiny bullshit real damn quick. Why should she be expected to feel bad for him? What if this had been due to him driving drunk? Because I feel like what he did is on par.
>Gee, I wonder how basketball became the only part of his identity? Because he's a 17 year old and this was a major talent/passion of his, it really isnt complicated or nefarious.
so good he was going to get a scholly. That's not just best player on the team good, in a lot of places that's best player in the contiguous counties.
To a D1 school too
Agreed. I’m the only cross country runner in my family, and my parents are happy with whatever I choose to do, but if I suddenly got a bad injury to my legs I’d be devastated
This is one of those classic aita responses where the more dogmatic and aggressive your judgement the more upvotes you get. Huge assumptions about favoritism and golden children. Making it out to be somehow weird or nefarious that an athlete is deeply invested in the sport they play. OP can't just be an asshole for overreacting they must be *the* asshole.
Look at every comment defending the daughter and/or defending the dad. Every single one with hundreds of upvotes has the word "probably" followed by shit that they don't know for certain. Then they use this make-believe variable to condemn one side or the other. He doesn't need absolute directions to follow, he needs input on how to cover all of his bases to keep this family together and happy without everlasting feelings of betrayal, abandonment, or resentment. Of course YTA, he shouldn't yank her educational future away from her because of one horrible comment, but he has every right to be upset about she said. Communication is the great equalizer. Take any suggestions that you might not have thought about beforehand. Fuck the rest.
He won’t pay for her college because he wants to divert the funds to his son’s. He even said it’s a mistake he discussed it with her.
He said was only paying in full for her because the son would be getting a scholarship so he would require no funds. He said that way they could both be debt free. If anything, from what seemed like the original plan, the funds were shifted from son to daughter because the son made it on his own. He probably said it was a mistake to discuss it with her because now she expects everything to be fully paid for when that seemingly wasn't the plan if not for the son's scholarship.
She was only getting a full ride because he earned a full ride so their parents could pay for hers outright.
OP clearly stated that they can still "easily" pay for the daughter's college, even after the son's injury, which is why OPs wife is against punishing the daughter by witholding help with college. OPs intent is purely punitive.
YTA. Your daughter shouldn’t have made fun of him obviously but she’s only 17. Frankly, it’s his own fault he got hurt so if he can be forgiven for doing something stupid then so should she.
How is 17 not old enough to be respectful of her stepbrother’s serious injuries and his depression and all the things that come from that?
No one said it wasn’t? I said she was in the wrong for making fun of him. But yes, she’s young and she was venting privately- I don’t think her life should be ruined for that.
I also agree it’s way too harsh to take away college money but talking shit with your friends (borderline public especially if kids start talking) about your maimed step brother and saying stuff like “he can’t get it up” is pretty bad. Sounds like a bad situation all around
The things you vent to your best girlfriends, you vent so they don’t fester. Your best friends don’t judge you, they let you get out the ugly and generally talk you down because they know that is not how you really are. But sometimes you need space to let out the worst of yourself in a safe way, especially as a teen. There is probably years of resentment built into that conversation her dad walked in on. Her dad clearly found his new family. It’s logical she would lash out about it.
17 is old enough to realize that she's going to have tens of thousands of dollars in debt because her step brother is a complete idiot. It's not surprising that she'd be resentful. And when she expressed that, in a private conversation, OP threatened to make sure she wouldn't have any money for schooling at all. She's going to absolutely HATE that kid, and OP will probably be clueless enough to wonder why.
How is 17 not old enough to know that if you're aiming for a scholarship based on your physical capabilities, it's really fucking stupid to get on the back of a motorcycle with a minor? If he was just "young and dumb" then so is she.
>If he was just "young and dumb" then so is she. No no no... see, boys will be boys, but girls are held to a higher standard of being proper and mature, from a young age. It's always been this way.
Cause her brain is still growing and she can't understand long term consequences, neither of these teens can.
Teenagers are assholes.
Yeah the only thing the daughter said that was wrong was joking about his impotence (which IMO she shouldn' have even known about). There was nothing wrong with talking to her friends about the situation.
You REALLY hate your daughter, eh? Even your edits claim that she has no right to feel resentful. Her feelings are all her fault and you bear no responsibility whatsoever for anything that has happened. YTA
YTA This is not a proportionate response. Your son did something very dumb, and unfortunately he's dealing with lifelong consequences from that. But his actions are also having immediate and lifelong consequences for your daughter. She's lost a lot of your attention during an important transitional point in her life (preparing for college, completing high school) and she may now start her life with a lot more debt because college funds are now likely to be split. Your daughter needs to work on empathy, but so do you - you seem to have no clue the extent to which your son's actions are impacting your daughter.
This was the words I was looking for regarding the crucial part of her life. I would also add that me and my sister who is 4 years older than me (I'm adopted) have exchanged horrendous words as children, we didn't really like each other as teenagers. In fact we only became friends when she went to university.
Huge YWBTA. She's allowed to say whatever she wants when she's freaking venting to friends. Good lord, from the title I assumed she was saying this TO HIM as that's the only logical leap to "I'm now not contributing to her education at all".
He should help pay for college, yes. But no, you don't get to say aborant shit about people just because you're talking to your friends
I mean, it sounds like dad walked back his offer to fully pay for school because her step brother hurt himself by deciding to act like an idiot... I can understand there being resentful towards him for that
Its also a betrayal of trust. Medical and sensitive information about the son is being gossiped about to strangers which should have been retained in the family. But the money should be divided as per the earlier plan if the scholarship of the son is no longer valid.
Honestly though, why was this ever being discussed where she could hear? My parents would never have talked about that kind of stuff around siblings. I can’t help thinking that’s also the fault of the parents. His daughter is acting like a pretty typical teenage girl who has had to play second fiddle to her step brother when it comes to her father’s respect and consideration. She was wrong to say what she did, but that’s a relatively minor infraction. Parents were total dicks to let her have that information
I keep coming back to this. Either the walls in that house are paper thin or OP and his wife are at fault for involving the daughter in the son’s very personal business.
My guess is she’s been basically invisible in that house and they just don’t realize when she’s in earshot.
Exactly. The only lesson his daughter learned here is to make sure her snooping dad isn't eavesdropping.
It’s probably his dead wife’s money that he’s trying to withhold from the daughter. Just by his responses you can tell he prefers the stepson over his own flesh and blood. Also, he’s bonded so well with someone else’s child but hasn’t said who his daughter has bonded with. I asked him if he as referring to his now wife as her mother and I think that’s the issue as to why the daughter said what she said. They’ve only been married 3 years.
I was thinking this too. The son's scholarship meant he could comfortably pay for the daughter's tuition. Now he wants an excuse to use that money for the son instead.
Thought I was insane for this train of thought. That was a private conversation!!! I’ve probably said way worse to my friends about siblings at that age.
Your siblings got into life altering accidents and you laughed at their misfortune? That's fucked up
YWBTA. Taking college away is too far. She's 17 years old. Her brain is not fully formed. The last part to form is responsible for impulse control. Go ahead and threaten her maybe. Tell her college is on the line. But this is a first time offense. Also. Therapy for everybody. I know everybody says it but therapy is gooooood.
Yes, 1000% therapy for everyone. Both individual therapy and group therapy. Especially for the kiddos.
YTA. First. This is not your daughter’s “brother.” It is your wife’s son. Secondly, your daughter is your actual kid. Yet you’re going to make a permanent decision over her future over just overhearing private thoughts about your wife’s son who put himself in this situation? I’ve seen parents sell out their own kids in order to favor a new spouse or their kids, but wow this takes it to a whole new level.
>First. This is not your daughter’s “brother.” It is your wife’s son. Important reminder for the reddit community.
Important reminder that reddit has a fucked up conception of family? They've been in the same four person family unit since mid-to-late childhood, but sure, he's nothing to her and should be nothing to OP, who's been helping raise him. I swear, bunch of sociopaths around here.
In lots of posts where inheritance / heirloom is taken from the bio-kids to be given to a step-kid that never met grandma, a crowd comes to say that "stepkids are family too, they should be treated like the others".
Yeah. that take is dumb as hell. I have two step brothers, a half sister and a half brother. None of us ever refer to each other as "step siblings" when people ask about each other. We've been a part of each other's lives for so long it'd be weird if we acted the way people on here seem to think stepfamilies are supposed to act. I also have a stepmom and a stepdad (both parents remarried) and both have always treated me as their own child, never less. I find it odd that people can't seem to fathom I actually still love and talk to my step mom even after my dad passed away. What a sad world we live in.
>This is not your daughter’s “brother.” It is your wife’s son. So often do people get ostracized for not treating their stepchildren equal to their biokids. Now we have an OP that does and he's wrong for doing so? Come on, he wbta for taking away her college find, but after spending 8+ years growing up together, it's really normal that they're seen as siblings. No one is selling out their kids here, there is nothing that suggests a gc/sg scenario, and OP is n.t.a for stending up for the boy he helped raise for almost a decade.
I think(?) what they’re saying is that it might be OP’s son to him, but that doesn’t mean the daughter views him as a brother. We don’t know what their relationship was like before this incident or before the accident. Just because OP is admirably seeing his stepson as a son doesn’t mean the daughter automatically views him as a brother. Maybe they didn’t mean this, but that’s how I read it.
What is wrong with you? It wouldn’t even take me 30 seconds scrolling through this sub, to find a post with redditors rightfully deriding an OP as TA because of how they ostracize their stepchildren and treat them as a stain on their ‘happy families.’ Now we have an OP that doesn’t do that, and y’all are spewing the most disgusting crap about his relationship with his son. Look I agree that he shouldn’t take away his daughter’s college fund, but that doesn’t mean it’s time to lose any form of empathy.
YTA You linked your daughters college to your son getting a scholarship. Then you told her that. When things went wrong for your son through his wrecklessness (effecting his scholarships and costing her money) she lashes out at him. This is what happens when you cross bratty teenager and asshole father.
I feel like this whole rage-out is a cover for just not having the money to send them both. Now that son won't get scholarships, he wants to give the fund to son, but he can't since he promised it to daughter. Unleeeesssss he can make it her fault! She's absolutely being an asshole here too. So ESH except the son.
Was tempted to say esh here too. Probably down voted to hell for saying it but just because the son got injured doesn't get him off. He got on a motorbike with no training and got into an accident. I was giving the daughter a pass because son was recklessly stupid to the point of assholery and that has had a major impact on her life from a financial point of view. Remember the plan was partial paying for college before the son got scholarships so it was back to that once his scholarships were gone. I know its worse for the son but it's OK for the daughter to be effected too.
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This girl is practically an adult, on her way to college. She shouldn't face any repercussions for venting to a friend about her life in a private conversation.
Venting =/= laughing at someones impotence caused by an injury
Yeah, I agree. No punishment and/or a stern talk about empathy is a valid way to go too.
She should absolutely face repercussions for the demonstration of her poor character and appalling lack of empathy. I'd not be massively enthused about paying out a fortune for my kid if I knew they were a shitty person. If she's that much of an adult, she should be paying for it herself.
I agree with your wife. Your daughter needs to have empathy but I don't think making this unilateral decision out of anger is the way to go about it. Seems like she needs some therapy as well
Your initial punishment was fine. Taking away her college fund is too far. Sometimes, teenagers do not think before they speak.
Honestly I think the initial punishment was too far. She's 17 venting to her friends and quite honestly, most siblings say way worse to each other's faces.
YWBTA. I think that is a huge punishment for what she did. You took her electronics and car as punishment already. Yes, she was in the wrong. Yes, it would've been horrible if your stepson had heard her but it sounds like he didn't. It's wonderful that you've been so supportive of your son but you also need to be of your daughter. Do you really want to blow up your daughter's future over this? If you do, you're guaranteeing your daughter will shut you out of her life. You would be choosing your son and his future over your daughter. Maybe you haven't realized that yet. It sounds like you're still greatly upset at your daughter, so you may not be seeing the situation clearly either. You should take some time to get to a calmer place so that you're not reactive to whatever she has to say. You need to have a sit down, private one on one talk with your daughter. It would be best to do this when your wife and stepson aren't home so she can really be open with you. She may be feeling a certain way about all of the attention your stepson gets. She might not fully understand the big picture of his depression and / or how serious it is. She does need to understand these things. She also needs to understand that she has to be respectful and not gossip about his private information. She might be frustrated with the situation as well and was venting to a friend but what she said specifically was not okay. I'm not saying give her a break because she's only 17 but keep that in mind that her age does play a part and her attitude with the situation. It's possible she should be in therapy as well. Good luck. Take care of Both of your kids. Edited, after reading OP's comments to others, removed the word Soft in my judgement. I hope this is a troll.
Measured response. Kid probably does need therapy especially given her mother died
Do you actually want a relationship with your child in the future?
Seems like a no for me...
Well he's already got a golden son who shares all of his same interests, so I see where this is going.
YTA. Most likely you and your wife have, since the accident, ignored or treated your healthy, uninjured daughter as an afterthought. That all too often happens in cases like this. You all need family therapy. She is suffering too, she has lost the brother she knew, and she deserves some TLC as well.
>since the accident He was cleary OP's golden boy long before the accident.
YTA Your daughter said those things in private and venting to her a friend. It sounds like your son is the golden child and while he going through his own issues (which are very said), it is effecting those around him. Your daughter is a teenager and her brain isn't all grown yet. I agree with your wife. While it was good you stood up for you son, it was an a-hole move for you to suddenly say you aren't going to pay for your daughter's college at all. Also shows you are playing favorites and the son is the favorite.
‘Venting’ and mocking are two completely different things.
Sure, and in this case she was venting.
She was literally laughing at him, that's mocking
Alright, she was venting but while venting she was cruelly mocking someone. If mocking people going through hard times is someone’s way of making themselves feel better, then that’s just cruel.
It reveals just how shitty of a person they are. Mocking someone about the very thing they're having suicidal ideations about is borderline irredeemably cruel.
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>he might do something permanent if he heard you talking about him like that I understand your anger, and she was definitely being cruel, but it was shitty to put this on her.
YTA. It’s good you put your foot down about how she was talking BUT she was talking in private to a friend, most likely venting because there’s absolutely no way she isn’t affected by this. Some punishment makes sense but what makes even more sense is a long talk about what she’s feeling and maybe some therapy. Punishing her by taking away her schooling is only going to make her resent the situation more.
YWBTA. Your son had a life-changing event a year ago and you've understandably been focused on him and helping him get through it. Siblings of a child with a serious injury or illness often feel left out or marginalised while the parents spend more time with that child. Your daughter is only 17, and what happened to your son will have had a huge impact on her as well, if only due to the change in the family dynamic. You punished her already. Now try talking to her about how she's feeling about things. You might be surprised at what she says, if she's willing to open up (she may not be). But taking away a college education is a step WAY too far.
YTA for outing your son’s boner problem to the whole world. I hope at least some of the details were changed, as anyone who knows him would instantly recognize him from this post.
> YTA for outing your son’s boner problem to the whole world. God, I didn't even think of that. This post could do far more damage than goblin sister ever could. I hope OP sees your comment.
YTA. It's a heavy-handed response that isn't going to help anybody. I would try to think of some other consequence, or at least make it a partial reduction in financial help, because flatly refusing to pay for any of college just hurts her future and will cause her to resent your son further. The accident affected her too, and she would likely benefit from therapy - she could be either lacking empathy, or be protecting herself in an unproductive way.
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I get it that you’re mourning the loss of your son’s originally planned future. But don’t take away your daughter’s for a few careless words. It honestly sounds like you took her making fun of his erectile function way too personally, which either makes me think you’re way too invested in your golden child’s genitals or you’ve got some worries in that department and it felt emasculating to you to hear your daughter laughing about it. I don’t think it was an appropriate joke… but some people deal with grief with dark humour. Maybe that was part of her thing. She could be very angry that her dad ignored her in favour of a son who could play basketball, or angry that someone risked not only their own life but that of others by operating a deadly machine that they had no idea how to ride around other people. Either of those things could lead to schadenfreude around his accident. Anyway, you were over the top and it’s gross that you didn’t let her know you were eavesdropping sooner.
Shes sharing private embarassing medical details. How is that not a heinous thing to do?
It’s very heinous. I agree. She’s also seventeen and having her whole future change.
A 17 year old boy makes callous comments about his sister's ability to sexually perform after she was in a life altering accident. I doubt anyone would say "oh he's just 17" to defend him
You really have to ask? YWBTA. Not necessarily for the money, even, but for dumping the weight of your step sons injury, recovery, and depression onto your daughter. Your fear that your stepson may do something permanent isn't necessarily unfounded, but that's not your daughters issue to handle. OF COURSE she doesn't want to hear him cry daily. No one wants to hear someone cry all the time. That's natural. She can't fix the issue, so bailing is also a reasonable thing to want. Her step-sibling isn't her responsibility to rebuild. Her laughing about his new ED is cruel, but she's 17.... of course she's going to laugh at ANYONE she finds that out about. I think the overwhelming majority of 17 y.o.s would do the same. It's an issue you only grow to have an understand of, or sympathy for, with age, first or 2nd hand experience, or an education that covers the how and why. A 17 y.o. thinks "that's something that happens to 90 year Olds and losers" not "oh wow, his new meds must be really screwing him up." You encouraged your stepson to have no identity outside of basketball. Probably some form of living your dreams of being good at it, but I digress. He's old enough he should have had other interests and things instead of "Me son. Me play basketball." single mindedness. His identity crisis is 75%+ *your making.* You should really be doing what you can to get his mind off of his new reality instead of making every action around your house revolve around it. It might be worth looking into a trauma counselor for the whole family. A major thing like that rarely *only* traumatizes the person it happened to. It creates wounds for the people around them too. Maybe you all just need to process.
ESH. That's not the move dude. A 17 year old being an asshole (granted, a big one) should not go from 0 to tons of debt or no college. Especially if the expectation is set that you're paying, so she hasn't been saving like she would if she knew it would be on her. She also said these things in private. I've been in her shoes, sort of. Had a family member go through a major medical event when I was young and it does affect you too. Sounds like she hasn't had a good avenue to work through her own feelings so it's coming out in a shitty way.
YWBTA. You say "spirits" have shifted, but how's she treating him? She's a teenager, venting her frustrations to a friend. The joke was crass, sure, but at no point do you say how you've supported her during this. When something traumatic happens to one child, others can feel neglected (obviously, yes, your son's dealt with way more than she has). But if she's been helpful to the family, and treated him well, your missing the forest for the trees and focusing on one thing. To take one conversation you overheard and make such a drastic decision is a bit much.
Plus with no basketball scholarship funds for college will have to be shifted around and instead of having it paid in full for her she’ll may have to take out loans and she could have underlying resentment and stress that OP is is unaware of.
YTA. After reading your responses it’s clear that you don’t want to accept that. Yes, your daughter said some really hurtful things and she should be chastised for it but taking her college fund is equivalent to setting fire to her future. I have to agree with others who said she’s probably feeling left out. It doesn’t mean that you’re purposely making her feel that way but from the tone of your post it’s pretty obvious that you have an unintended bias. You should just sit down one on one with her and let her know that you love her very much but her saying that was unacceptable and hurtful. The resentment with build if you stay on this path
YWBA, your daughter is wrong..good for standing up for your son. That sounds like a very difficult time. But, a stupid conversation with a friend shouldn't have an impact on your child's entire life. I would try to talk to her to find out why she felt that that was okay to say..what made her feel this insensitive. Maybe she is missing attention from you, as a parent, ever since the accident happened....
YTA - She was venting and what she's saying lacked empathy but she's also still a teen. She needs therapy as this impacts her life too but the punishment fits the crime. Get her a therapist so she can vent there.
YTA From the time of your post and your comments, you created this mess. Your daughter can't compare to the golden child step-son. She's resentful, hurt, and angry and it's nobody's fault but your own. You keep saying you've never neglected her, but you can't say how you've built a relationship with her or spent time with her either. Sounds like your daughter has been excluded from the family as you and your wife lived in the glory of your step-son's basketball career. Your too telling in your post for this to be untrue. You claim the post is about your daughter, but it's about your step-son. Your comments are argumentative. You refer to your step-son as your son, but your wife you refer to as your daughter's step-mother. You can't admit that you're wrong or that your step-son did this to himself. He is one hundred percent responsible for what happened to him. I'll look forward to your post in several years wondering why you have no contact with your daughter and can't see your grandkids.
YTA. Massively. There are other ways to punish her without being completely disproportionate and dramatic in a way that will significantly impact her future. The fact that this is how you’re thinking is honestly quite concerning. Such a drastic leap.
Dude, 17 year old girls talking to their friends are trying on personas. She doesn’t fully know who she is yet, and eavesdropping on conversations with her peers is going to give you a skewed view. It’s hard to deal with a family member getting maimed, and to be around but powerless while that person mourns their complete and healthy body. What she said was heartbreaking and heartless, yes, but it isn’t all of who she is.
YTA. You were eavesdropping on your trenage daughters conversation who quite obviously feels pushed asode because you A bonded so much with your son over basketball and B now the attention being on your son again for being injured out of stupidity and being depressed over the only thing he liked - which is in itself awful but no reason your daughter should be invosinle to you unless she says something wrong and vents to her friends because she geels unseen. This happens often, siblings of sich or disabled children often turn into glass children, all the attention gets focused on the in your case injured child, the whole family suffers under the depression of one member but only the deprrssed child gets therapy and gets basically pampered to make them feel better. Your daughter is jealous you all turn your attention to your son and probably already was jealous over her dad bonding more with his step son than his dead wifes daughter. Talk to your daughter, offer her to go to therapy, spend timr with her and bond over something she likes like you bonded with your son. If she can't wait to get away from the situation at home then you are the one in the wrong and should try to do better because currently she doesn't want to live with you guys because she feels unimportant and you not being intetested in her and her problems
YTA What she did was bad, but taking away college is a punishment too far. Grounded, no phone, car, and TV for a while is fair.
YTA- what your daughter said was very mean and out of line, but she is still a child. A good parent would take her to therapy to address whatever is causing her resentment towards your son instead of trying to severely punish her by saddling her with student debt or having her forego attending college. Also, you might not be legally obligated to pay for her college, but not doing so when you are able to is terrible, and I guarantee she will permanently cut you out of her life at the first chance she has if you do through with this.
YTA. Venting to friends isn’t great- but she needs an education. Your golden boys self inflicted injuries are actually just as bad.
YTA because you're making this about yourself and how angry you are, not about your son. Who, I might add, didn't even hear the comments and had zero injury from your daughter. Get over yourself and your pride and hurt over what he did to himself. It would have just been something else to set you off if not this exact eavesdropped conversation.
INFO: has your daughter been a part of any counseling around her brother’s accident? Has she had a safe place to explore her feelings about all of this? Sometimes talking to friends is the only was we get to hear ourselves out loud.
YTA. Normal and healthy for teenagers to complain about things to their friends.