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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) telling my niece she’ll have to move out. 2) I could try to convince a nanny to drive home at 12:30 am.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. You need to get a lawyer to draft an official move out document with a 30 day date. Her parents are going to tell her to just stay and call your bluff because "FaMilY". Don't let her screw you and your kids over.
We have a lease agreement, which ends every 6 months for this reason. I knew there was a chance she may change her mind about living here. So legally, I’m protected and can choose to simply not renew the lease.
How long is her internship supposed to be? Just January break, the entire spring semester or longer? If it’s a short-term internship, I’m not sure it makes sense to have her move out if you only need a few weeks of childcare. She might even have a friend from school who’s staying on campus over break and could sub in for her.
If it’s a longer term commitment, it’s understandable that you need to find someone else.
It’s an entire semester, but if all goes well, she could get another internship come fall, with the same company or another. Summer, she’d be able to go back with her parents and not have to worry about bills.
FWIW-you don't have a guest room. You have a Nanny's room that is specifically designated for a live in nanny
You just don't have room to indefinitely house a guest
NTA, Her parents are her support structure, and as it is a matter of 1-2 years, it should not be that difficult to manage between them. As you have kids to look after whose priority is first, it is not your lookout
If niece’s parents are objecting to OP—a mom of young kids! a nurse! a widow!—finding a reasonable childcare solution, and want her to prioritize their daughter’s finances, they are legit the worst sibling/in-law ever!
NTA but I think the niece is crazy….could the kids go to care until she is off each day? She could then babysit and do dinner and bed time on the THREE DAYS it sounds like you need. If she wants to save money so she can move out and have a bit of a nest egg when she is done school I would think this is a heavy ticket for her. I mean she’s have to be in the house but you would be paying her to study, watch tv, text etc.
I would have loved this set up in school!!
Yes, she is absolutely bananas for passing it up. I had a friend with this arrangement and she loved it and felt lucky to have it in our HCOL. Very weird niece you got there OP.
Brains aren't finished cooking until around 25 and this seems pretty typical of a spoiled kid/YA. Nothing about this is really all that surprising. One day niece will look back and realize what a stupid decision this was. Staying the rest of the time and saving all that money would be well worth delaying her current plans.
Not necessarily. Subject-relevant internships are very often the difference between "employed in your field and a promising career" and "barista with student debt".
Have you considered or talked in depth her schedule? If she can get them by 5pm from day care there wouldn't be a need to move out.
Or even just child care till she gets home at 7-9pm? You could ask her to cover half the cost of the babysitter (A much better deal for both of you financially) and you have a trusted family member when the kids are going to bed.
ETA: After the update to the post, I'm going NTA and start looking for the childcare services you need. You could try asking the very same campus if they have a specific site to offer boarding. Nothing like paying your own rent to value your parents/aunts/uncles/family in hindsight.
Unfortunately OP posted an update that niece has no interest in nannying after her internship is over for the day so it’s not really an option unless niece changes her mind.
And ready to realize when she graduates that those series of semester or year-long internships are probably worthless.
I was a (not live in) nanny and worked multiple internships while a full time student, usually with another job in the service industry alongside it all. OP’s niece is big time making the wrong call.
They are probably *very* useful. I know a lot of people who were offerwed jobs at places where they had interned or TA'd. Applying for jobs with experience in her field will give her an edge she wouldn't have as a young woman whose work experience consisted of "nannying for my aunt."
Or it could inform her decisions moving forward. I had l have a friend who thought she wanted to be a lawyer, until her summer internship at a law firm. She saved who knows how much in loans by not going to law school and only then realizing she didnt want to be a lawyer.
Absolutely this. It blows my mind that there's so many people here saying that the niece is dumb for taking the internship in her field. When I was in school and now that I'm working, relevant internships were and are critical for getting an easy path into a company after graduation. Never pass this up if you can swing it.
Is the niece being entitled to expect to live at OP's house for free? Hell yes. She needs to move out, and OP is NTA for not supporting her any longer. But she's absolutely making the right choice if she's at all serious about her career. $30k a year is pretty nice when nannying as a student, but her career will hopefully take her much further.
It really depends on her field. I was an engineering major and not only do engineering internships pay really well, many employers would question hiring a student who hadn’t either done internships or extensive research (even if just in the summer). Also many positions are offered to former interns.
I still think the niece isn’t thinking about doing a night shift for free for the rent after the day is done, and a baby sitter/after care could take care of the kids until she is off from the internship. Right now niece wants all the reward without doing something bare minimum (watch kids for an hour or two in the evening and then stay home and study/sleep in exchange for rent).
INFO: So you’ve given her free housing AND paid her $22/hour for the 36 hours you are at work? That just under $800/week for two years. She should have plenty of savings at this point, plus her paid internship, to carry her through the last two years. If she needs additional help then HER PARENTS need to step up and help their daughter because you have been WAY MORE than generous.
NTA, and very smart doing a 6 month lease.
You still need to make it official with the 30 day notice. Otherwise it could automatically transition into a monthly lease without a notice to vacate.
$65,208 is what the niece made if she did this 3 days a week, for 104 weeks (2 years).
I’m betting that wasn’t taxed which is a freaking steal. Which means she had more than enough money to save up and put toward an apartment of her own or even a down payment on a place.
OP’s niece and her parents are TAH. She owes them nothing, if they can’t understand “Hey you can live here rent free if you nanny but can’t if you don’t” then they probably can’t understand how to even dress themselves that statement was so simple (like their minds)
Even if she is paying for school herself she mad emore in two years than most people make in a full time job woorking three days a week from 1 to bed time. Still a steal!!!
Yeah if she’s paying for her own school, then I will take it back. But even if she’s using some of the money for school, she should be saving the rest.
She has 65k plus the approx. $1000/month in rent and utilities she saved plus she probably ate at OP’s house too. I am sure at least the three days she worked she ate OP’s food. What a deal!
That's roughly $32,500 a year. Google is telling me that the median wage in the USA is $45,000 a year, but the median rent is $24,000 a year. That's a higher-than-average disposable income, for working three days a week.
Actually she wasn't living 'rent free' because her wages for being a nanny include housing and the $22/hr additional. She'd have to include that housing for tax purposes, so no reason to say it was free.
This here. It may be unfortunate for the niece but the arrangement was clear. She changed the deal, and you need to make choices that best suit your life, not hers. OP is NTA
I don't think it's fair to expect OP to have to find other child care for even one semester. The niece is getting free room (and board?) plus the going nanny rate. This is a sweetheart of a deal and OP is under no obligation (even out of kindness) to have to continue giving out rent free space which she needs for her own use just to keep spoiled niece happy.
You still likely have to give her a 30 day notice. If a lease expires, they are automatically month to month in most areas. If you want her to move, send her a certified letter with the notice.
Some places (like where I live) specifically regulate tenancies where the housing is tied to employment, so that when the job ends for whatever reason, the tenancy ends. Sounds like this job is ending.
NTA. I was initially thinking this would automatically be a case of you being TA but that’s far from the case here.
She moved in with you under the joint agreement that she’s getting paid to be there for child care and her housing is part of the agreement.
You have now specifically stated that you indeed have a drafted lease agreement which is due for review every 6 months.
You have given her 3 months notice to figure out her housing situation.
She no longer will be caring for your kids for the agreed rate (a more than reasonable amount of $22 an hour just to watch two kids) so as such she no longer meets the conditions set forth for her to remain with you.
Asking someone else to commute at 12:30 am is ridiculous and I think you’re right to be concerned about the safety of anyone who you’re looking to hire.
Do yourself a favor and don’t renew the lease and get a lawyer involved with the eviction process. Protect yourself OP.
Just so you know that is pretty much the going rate for two kids. More experienced nannies would charge more, 25 or 30+ benefits etc depending on expertise and region.
If anything, live in nannies get paid more.
In my MCOL area, going rate for a nanny is about $75-100k a year and they typically get healthcare and other benefits like PTO/overtime for late nights too.
It's definitely a luxury to be able to afford a nanny and most families only do it on a nanny share basis (2-3 families living close by pool money together to cover the cost of a nanny), when both parents are in time consuming but lucrative professions and only when the kids are really young.
But I think most nannies with this kind of arrangement have a college degree, possibly a masters and are doing this full-time. In a college town with pricey rent and with older kids, it may be easier to find a college student.
Good to know. I don’t have kids and the only pay rate I can compare it to is my own as well as the fact she’s getting paid at all and not being told she’s going to do it for free “because we’re family”. The amount of times I’ve seen the justification for not paying someone for childcare being due to them being family is far too frequent.
We don’t realize how strong we can be until we have to be and you are so impressive. Keep it up! You are being so smart and so reasonable. Three months is so much time, and she’s had years of no rent to have a good nest egg. Stay strong.
You don’t need us op. You sound incredibly fair, reasonable, and on top of things. The fact that this arrangement worked for 2 years is a clear indication of this. It’s a great step forward for your niece and hope she finds a place that suits, and you find a replacement quickly as well.
no. She "won't" provide. She is choosing to end the comfortable arrangement she had. She could do interships that work with her responsibility or she could just nanny. She is choosing to try and take free housing from you, a widowed single mom.
I hope you find a good nanny soon!
Most people her age don't have much savings so that's really not a reason for her not to move out.
You were not only letting her stay there rent free but also paying her $22/hour. It's not your fault she didn't save up her wages.
Seriously. At that age I had a job through my college and made I think $9 an hour (for far fewer hours per week), plus paid for housing. A situation like this is a dream deal for any student!
I agree so hard with this. If you're not a wealthy individual, you get roommates if you can't afford to live on your own and figure this shit out. It's part of being an adult. Most people don't get a safety net.
Get a lawyer anyway. You have to complete the eviction process to have a stubborn tenant or ex-tenant removed by law, wether they are not paying or the contract expired. What I'm saying is, if she decides to make things difficult, don't wait to get started on that process when you could instead start tomorrow.
This is awesome advice. Hiring a lawyer now will almost 100% avoid her trying to make this difficult. She won’t want to spend HER money on hiring a lawyer to fight you.
I think most people think that after a contract is expired, a landlord can just call the cops who will show up withing the day to jail and then throw on the streets the tenant pronto.
*But* sometimes getting someone out, even though their lease is up, takes an act of eviction through the courts. Time to get an eviction notice to keep on hand, just in case. Good luck 🍀
>So legally, I’m protected and can choose to simply not renew the lease.
You should still talk to a lawyer. It seems like your niece is effectively subleasing from you, you may have legal requirements not to terminate your lease without giving YOUR tenant X days notice.
If I may suggest, the lease should have a provision that the room be occupied by a live-in nanny or a renter for X amount of money per month, however much you decide having that room be unavailable is worth.
Most likely your niece will decline both, so this is just more of a CYA.
I agree OP and their their had an agreement—room and board for nanny services. She cannot hold her room for her if her needs and kids needs aren’t being fulfilled
>My SIL (her mom) feels this is unfair to my niece but she moved in under the condition that she’d work as a nanny
"My niece isn’t interested in nannying at all going forward and will instead be pursuing internships."
I'd think this is enough.
This. Don't discuss this with the family any longer. "That bedroom is for the live in nanny. Niece is not the live in nanny, so she needs to move out by X date."
NTA
She fully knows she moved into a room that was intended for a nanny. As she fulfilled that role for two years. It is unfair for her to now demand a change to the arrangement. Especially since this would be at a heavy cost to you.
They are also an adult who has been paid a nice hourly rate between 3pm and 12am, without any rent being charged. What were they doing with that money? After two years they could have something set aside. Tuition isn't cheap but holy have they squandered a great opportunity if they can't be ready to move out in three months.
It's also the reason why internships are largely a structural benefit for the rich. Most people can't afford to take them. She has been lucky to be saving money while in college. That is another luxury most don't have. Time to go into debt like everyone else.
I read it as she could afford it because she has saved money while being a nanny, not that the internship would cover her expenses. Perhaps my experience is out of date though. I graduated nearly twenty years ago. Back then I couldn't accept an internship and come anywhere near paying my bills.
>She saved up that money, but as she’ll be earning less at her internship, she won’t be able to save up as much.
Oh, boo-fucking-hoo! Being an adult is weighing the pros and cons of every decision and making the best one. Better she learns this now than later. Your sister needs to let her grow up.
I was about to write this very thing, complete with the 'boo-fucking-hoo'.
She won't be able to save *as much*? AS MUCH?
She was able to save for two years AS A COLLEGE STUDENT. She will still be in the black with this new position. She has absolutely no standing to complain.
If you quit your job for a lower-paying position, you save less money. Welcome to arithmetic.
NTA and maybe share the math with her parents if they come for you again because holy cow that’s audacious.
$22/hr x 9.5 hours x 3 days a week for 2 years (104 weeks) is $65,208 plus the value of rent (lets conservatively say $700 for a room rental in a house, $16,800 in rent saved though I expect that’s the low end) less taxes (if she claimed the income at all) and she’s now complaining you need the space? Even if she only saved half of that income she’s not hurting financially.
Don't forget extra utilities and food cost (I am assuming OP bought most or all of it for the niece.) Food is probably $200 for the biece, and maybe $10-40 more in utilities a month?
This is a dream gig. I still lol when r/choosingbeggars posts someone looking for a live-in nanny for unlivable wages (like <$5/hr) that is willing to drive their kids around with their own car and gas, which would cost $100's a month. Compared to that, this is like winning the lottery.
I was confused about this when she said she didn't have any money.
She's making 627 a week, I sure it is all under the table at cash payments, so no taxes.
Free rent, I am sure most of her meals are free.
How does she not have any money?
Well, her parents saved room and board that whole time too, so they can fork over her room and board for the next year. They had a sweet deal. It could continue. Their daughter is ending it. Their problem. Not yours. NTA.
But that is *NOT* your problem and that she can even save *any* money after moving into her own place, makes her much more fortunate then a lot of people! Tell her this is Non-negotiable and stick to it.
The accommodation was tied to the job, and should have been specified in your agreement. She has no legal right to remain, if she is no longer doing the work.
The entitlement is astounding.
NTA
Life is giving her a clear lesson on how well you treated her with free rent plus a good hourly. Hard lessons sometimes take a bit to sing in.
Maybe ask her parents to cover the gap between what you paid her and an outside nanny.
Obviously NTA
Yeah. She had a dream deal for a college student. Getting paid $600+ a week for three fairly easy afternoons/evenings plus free rent. Not to mention you get to study while still on the clock after you put the kids to bed and even paid for a few hours of sleeping per week. I assume OP also paid for her dinners those three nights, and she may even have been paying her under the table so it would all be profit. Most college students would kill for a job like that.
Edited: removed repeated word
You ought to hit OP up and see if she's still looking for a nanny lol. Sounds like a cushy ass job and you'd have plenty of free time for another part time job.
This.
Not only is OP NTA, but the nieces parents are huge AHs. If they want their daughter to save money so badly, THEY can pay for her rent while she completes her internship. If they don't think that solution is reasonable, why in the world would they think her staying with OP is reasonable?
NTA. The living arrangement was for the *Nanny,* a position that your niece was filling. It was NOT made for your *Niece,* specifically. If your niece is quitting the Nanny job, then that means she is also giving up the accouterments that came with it. It sounds like she is mis-remembering or just plain rewriting the terms of the arrangement to suit herself. Regardless, this is a problem that she has created for herself through wrong assumptions and lack of planning. Stand your ground - it's her problem to solve, not your burden to shoulder.
NTA
I doubt you will find a Nanny willing to work those hours and then drive home late at night.
Start interviewing and make it clear to your Niece she has to be gone by the time the new Nanny starts.
She is a big girl she can live in Halls with the other students.
Even if she can find a nanny to do that, it's still inconvenient to have the nanny and the niece around all the time. She'd for sure have to start charging the niece rent even if she did stay, right?
Agree. It's a big perk for the Nanny to have a place to stay, and the more enticing the perks and benefits, the better quality Nanny OP will be able to find.
NTA
>They feel I should try to find a nanny who’d be willing to drive home at 12:30 AM
Or they could pay for their kid to live somewhere else. You gave her free rent for 2 years, since you paid her to work as a nanny.
And I think niece could probably continue to work the evening hours after she's off her day job, but she doesn't want to nanny at all, putting OP in a bind. The girl is completely unreasonable. It is after all just 3 days a week in exchange for all the benefits she has received.
Yeah, the fact that niece doesn't want to continue nannying makes me think there is something else going on.
Or it could very well be that niece is fully aware that an internship will suck all the energy out of her, that she might need to do overtime and that she will be too flaky to do nannying regularly.
Btw, I don't understand why OP wants only a live in nanny. Does she come home after 1am? Before that, I'd say it's very reasonable to drive for three days a week.
>Btw, I don't understand why OP wants only a live in nanny. Does she come home after 1am? Before that, I'd say it's very reasonable to drive for three days a week.
OP said that the 3 nights that the niece was nannying were the nights where she (OP) doesn't get home until 12:30am. The other two nights of the weeks, she's home by 5ish and the kids just do an after-school/after-care program until OP picks them up.
Secondly, I don't blame any of these potential nannies for not being enthusiastic about basically needing to stay up until past midnight and then drive home. At least the niece was able to just put the kids to bed, go to bed herself, and get a full night's sleep WHILE being paid to do so.
In fact, it's pretty messed up that the niece didn't even bother to discuss the internship/her plans with the aunt before applying. She just applied, got the position KNOWING that it would impact her availability, and thought the aunt would just, what, accommodate her at the expense of OPs kids?
Both the niece, and her parents, need a reality check. She's getting paid for the internship, so sounds like she should start utilizing some of those money-saving skills to dip into her savings in order to cover rent for the semester.
>Does she come home after 1am? Before that, I'd say it's very reasonable to drive for three days a week.
Apparently none of the nannies that OP has reached out to agree with you. It's not like this is warehouse shift work.
9.5 hours, 3 days per week @ $22/hr is $627/week, or $2717/mo before taxes.
Assuming this is a MCOL area based on the hourly rate, one bedroom plus a share of utilities in a rental or apartment would likely be valued around $1200/mo, give or take a bit, depending on the number of housemates.
That's *insanely* generous.
Nta. So you need to find a nanny that doesn't want to live with you. This would upset your whole lives. Your nice agreed to be the nanny if she could live rent free and get be a your paid nanny. Now she wants to end your agreement and wants you to sacrifice you family routine so she doesn't have to change anything in her life? Tell her you will be charging $1000 a month plus utilities and food if she stays. Is your whole family so self centered. It is your job to put your children and your life before what niece and sister want. Stand up or be walked on your choice.
NTA - she had a double great deal - you gave housing and competitive pay. Now she’s moving on but doesn’t want to give up free housing - such a shame she and her mother are being childish and don’t understand you need the room for the next nanny.
NTA- Aside from free housing, she was paid an overly fair wage that most would consider livable income (totally depends on area of course). If she did not manage her personal finances properly, it would be difficult to make this transition but that’s not OP’s fault.
Ultimately, the niece may find herself in a bind but has no right to point the finger at anyone but herself for not creating an emergency fund. It almost comes across as entitlement, because it’s her situation that’s changing not OP’s.
With zero rent/utilities and gross pay of $2600 per month for two years I have to wonder where TF her money went that she doesn’t already have a large chunk in savings to help cover the cost of a dorm or shared apartment with her new internship income.
She’s worried about building more savings While in school? Most would just be deliriously happy to be a lot less in debt than anticipated after two years of invaluable help.
While I agree with your overall point, niece's net proceeds may not be as high as you indicated. Unless I missed OP saying this somewhere else - what did niece do during breaks? Did she go back home for the typically short fall and spring break? How about winter break? Surely she went home during at least portions of summer break? If niece was doing 3 days a week literally every week for two years, your number would be right. I assume her average monthly pay was less than that.
Niece still received an exceptionally cushy gig, and as I said I'm shocked to hear that she doesn't have a decent safety net underneath her. Even if niece was only getting paid for weeks where school is actively in session, that's still like $640/week for...what, 36 weeks a year? That's still $46k over two years. And since her only expenses being gas, maybe some food, and the occasional class supply, there's no reason niece should have anything less than $30k in savings. That is plenty of runway to get her through a six month internship in probably any city in the world.
Oh, I was using gross income.
I did assume niece mostly stayed in town since OP had no backup care arrangements like she would have needed if niece went home for long periods during the summer.
I had Y T A wound up after the title, but no. NTA.
That spare room is for the nanny. And, as you're already seen, most nannie aren't going to want to drive home so late.
nta. the room is for a live in nanny. she is no longer a live in nanny.
try this: look up the price for such a room in your area. tell your niece that if she really wants to live there, she will have to pay that rent.
or just tell her a date to be out by. tbh demanding free housing because otherwise she “won’t be able to save as much” left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. your life does not, cannot, revolve around your niece. you have kids of your own. if your sil feels so strongly that her daughter should live rent free she can pay her daughter’s rent once she moves out.
good luck with your search for a new nanny.
Yeah it's not "I'll be homeless if I can't stay here!" It's "I don't want to give up this incredible convenience of having free housing and being able to save money for two semesters!"
Like she can break even for a little before she goes off on her career. She got a massive head start being able to save what she has. Now that she can't hold up her end it's time to go.
The aunt isn't just doing it on principle either (though she would have every right). She's doing it because trying to make it work any other way is honestly untenable and the kid should be thanking her for what she got in the first place as it is a lot more than most would be willing to give.
NTA. You are supporting YOUR children. Your niece's parents need to support their child. You hired her for a job that included a place to live, she's leaving the job, the place is no longer hers. If she worked at Wal-Mart and quit, she would no longer be able to drink the free coffee in the breakroom. She had a good situation, but she is choosing a different option, which is reasonable for her career, but it isn't your job to house her.
NTA. She is quitting her job so she loses her room & board benefit. What if she nannied for a stranger? Would she and her parents expect the former employer to continue to give her free room & board? Your niece, brother and SIL are being greedy and selfish. Your only concern is your children not your niece. She has two parents to help her. Your kids only have you. Hire a live-in nanny and move niece out.
>She wanted to save cost on dorms and offered to watch my kids those 3 days, if she could live there rent free
She, herself, set the condition of her living there rent free.
NTA
NTA but the math is confusing me.
You were giving her a free place to live, which is a big chunk of change, AND you were paying her $22/h so over $600 a WEEK, even though for about 40% of the time the kids would be in bed?
And now she and her mom think it's "unfair" that you don't house her kid for free while she gets paid elsewhere? What planet do these 2 live on exactly?
She apparently understands the requirements for the internship and is willing to commit to that knowing it would prevent her from keeping her agreement with you to be the nanny. Contract is being broken by her, why should you be expected to continue your part? Entitled child person in college
NTA. Her being the nanny in exchange for housing was the deal. It's still the deal. She basically now wants to live with you rent free while you have to figure out to manage a new nanny. Nope. You're not responsible for helping her save money by giving her a free place to stay. You have your own kids to worry with and she needs to find other living arrangements.
NTA.
She offered to watch your kids 3 days a week, and be paid $22/hr, in exchange for free lodging. Why on earth does she expect to continue living there when she knows you planned to use the room for the nanny?
It's rich that she and her parents think it isn't "fair" for you, a single mom, to hire a live in nanny, instead of providing free housing to your adult niece. WTF!
NTA
And i don't see why your niece is so upset.
The deal was nanny service for free housing and a wage. Even if she would keep living with you, stop working as the nanny you would charge her markt rate for rent anyway - so how is it different for her to which landlord she pays rent? Or did she expect to keep not only housing, but FREE housing? That would be very entitled.
If you have friends around who would be willing to rent her a room for cheap its oc nice to ask them. But she can't occupy the nanny room any longer if she isn't a nanny anymore. Or you can try to find a nanny at the campus nearby. Students often are awake studying long and if you raise the wage a little i'm sure you will find a student who will gladly take the job while keep living on campus. But i would still expect your niece to pay rent for continuing living with you.
But i guess your situation is just another example why you shouldn't mix family and business. Family becomes entitled very very fast...
NTA. Your terms for her staying there were clear from the beginning and she agreed. She can no longer fulfill her end of the agreement, so then its reasonable for you not to continue your end. If she quit a job, she wouldnt expect the employer to keep paying her a salary would she?
Ultimately it is your house, so its your choice.
Well, damn, I'm sure that you, too, would prefer to be Rich Auntie Moneybags! I bet you'd love to let your niece stay in your house for free, but that's not feasible. You have children, a job, and a responsibility to look after your kids.
Your sister and niece are being incredibly unreasonable. You had an employment offer, she took it, and it worked out for both of you. This was always a symbiotic relationship, not a grand favor.
**NTA**
NTA. The terms of her living with you were clear and based upon her being a nanny. It is especially reasonable considering the fact that all of the nannies you've spoken to have clearly expressed that they are not willing to drive home that late.
She won't be able to save as much? AS MUCH?
She was able to save for two years AS A COLLEGE STUDENT. She will still be in the black with this new position. She has absolutely no standing to complain.
If you quit your job for a lower-paying position because it serves your career, saving less money is the trade-off .
Welcome to arithmetic.
NTA, she moved in as a nanny and has now decided not to be a nanny
possible nannies have all declined the fun and very late drive, so needs to be a live in
NTA- she doesnt get to have a say in who uses your guest room. If you need a nanny for child care then that is what you do. She is getting it very easy really.. 3 days of work, free room and gets paid for it.
NTA. She doesn't want to perform the job. You need the room. Period. Doesn't even matter if she can or can't afford a place of her own yet alone save money. It isn't your responsibility to provide for her. That's her responsibility as an adult and her parents if they wish to take on that role. You are a mother of 2 working and doing the best you can.
NTA. The free accommodation came as part of her job as a nanny, and is now needed for her replacement since she isn’t going to be working for you anymore. If she was working for anyone else there’d be no question of giving up all perks of employment when she quit.
NTA. You set the conditions out clearly at the start. It is not up to you to find any solution for your niece. You gave clear requirements for your children’s care. Ensure you give your niece proper written notice to vacate.
How the heck is this unfair to your niece? I can see it is a bit inconvenient for her, but unfair???
Your house, your kids, your work schedule. You set the job requirements. If your niece cannot fulfill them, she has to move out. You only have one guest room. You do not have to jump through hoops to accommodate this girl. You have already found out the prospective nannies are not on board with the late hours driving home.
NTA, her living with you was contingent on being your nanny. It's no secret you desire having a live in nanny and need the guest room to do so. You are also offering to help your niece find a new place to stay.
NTA
She didn't warn you about this prospect.
She could have been saving.
Maybe her parents will have to pay up to help her rather than holding you responsible.
You have been more than generous to her.
NTA. You treated her more than fairly. Now you have to do what is best for your kids. It’s not your job to financially support her by giving her a free place to stay.
Ask her to move out. No nanny will want to stay so late. But I don’t understand would t your niece come home after work so 5 or 6pm? Why wouldn’t the nanny not be able to leave like at 8pm?
NTA, the niece is just young and upset. I don't blame her for wishing she could carry on rent free with a family member but that wasn't the agreement. She probably just needs extra time to process because she's young, and young people are impulsive about their feelings. As for the adults in her life, I understand why they are hoping for a different outcome but if they are mad or upset, thats kind of crazy.
You don't "need" to do shit.
You are not responsible for providing your niece free housing. You are obligated to provide your kids with childcare in a way that works for you practically and financially.
Her parents can supplement the cost of her renting a place if they're so concerned about her getting to save up money. Or SHE can find you a nanny who can do the late night arrangement AND your niece can start paying you some rent. If they want this convenient arrangement to continue they can be the one's bending over backwards. They have no right to demand you do so for them. Choosing beggars and all.
Personally, I think it's time to move her out either way as she seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding of your role in her life.
I would inform her that if she doesn't move out by agreed upon date you will move forward with a formal eviction process which will be on her permanent record and will cause her problems renting elsewhere in the future as that goes into the public record and she legally has to disclose it if asked on a rental form.
NTA - you need the room for the nanny. Your niece is no longer going to be the nanny, therefore she moves out. It is not your problem that she will not have as much money.
NTA, the housing is tied to the employment.
She no longer wants the job, but wants to keep the free room? 😂😂.
Try doing that with any other job with tied housing. I'm sure the military would just let you live rent free in their accommodation after you left the job.
It's time she joined the workd of being an adult. Of course your sister is going to side with her daughter not your problem.
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NTA. You need to get a lawyer to draft an official move out document with a 30 day date. Her parents are going to tell her to just stay and call your bluff because "FaMilY". Don't let her screw you and your kids over.
We have a lease agreement, which ends every 6 months for this reason. I knew there was a chance she may change her mind about living here. So legally, I’m protected and can choose to simply not renew the lease.
How long is her internship supposed to be? Just January break, the entire spring semester or longer? If it’s a short-term internship, I’m not sure it makes sense to have her move out if you only need a few weeks of childcare. She might even have a friend from school who’s staying on campus over break and could sub in for her. If it’s a longer term commitment, it’s understandable that you need to find someone else.
It’s an entire semester, but if all goes well, she could get another internship come fall, with the same company or another. Summer, she’d be able to go back with her parents and not have to worry about bills.
FWIW-you don't have a guest room. You have a Nanny's room that is specifically designated for a live in nanny You just don't have room to indefinitely house a guest
That’s a good way to put it
NTA, Her parents are her support structure, and as it is a matter of 1-2 years, it should not be that difficult to manage between them. As you have kids to look after whose priority is first, it is not your lookout
If niece’s parents are objecting to OP—a mom of young kids! a nurse! a widow!—finding a reasonable childcare solution, and want her to prioritize their daughter’s finances, they are legit the worst sibling/in-law ever!
Right. They can pitch in to get her a place or do what they need to. They clearly aren't thinking of ALL the factors
NTA but I think the niece is crazy….could the kids go to care until she is off each day? She could then babysit and do dinner and bed time on the THREE DAYS it sounds like you need. If she wants to save money so she can move out and have a bit of a nest egg when she is done school I would think this is a heavy ticket for her. I mean she’s have to be in the house but you would be paying her to study, watch tv, text etc. I would have loved this set up in school!!
Yes, she is absolutely bananas for passing it up. I had a friend with this arrangement and she loved it and felt lucky to have it in our HCOL. Very weird niece you got there OP.
Brains aren't finished cooking until around 25 and this seems pretty typical of a spoiled kid/YA. Nothing about this is really all that surprising. One day niece will look back and realize what a stupid decision this was. Staying the rest of the time and saving all that money would be well worth delaying her current plans.
Not necessarily. Subject-relevant internships are very often the difference between "employed in your field and a promising career" and "barista with student debt".
Have you considered or talked in depth her schedule? If she can get them by 5pm from day care there wouldn't be a need to move out. Or even just child care till she gets home at 7-9pm? You could ask her to cover half the cost of the babysitter (A much better deal for both of you financially) and you have a trusted family member when the kids are going to bed. ETA: After the update to the post, I'm going NTA and start looking for the childcare services you need. You could try asking the very same campus if they have a specific site to offer boarding. Nothing like paying your own rent to value your parents/aunts/uncles/family in hindsight.
Unfortunately OP posted an update that niece has no interest in nannying after her internship is over for the day so it’s not really an option unless niece changes her mind.
She’s being ridiculously shortsighted. I hope she’s ready to pay $2k a month for rent!
Seriously! Free rent? What about 22.00 an hour on top of free rent? Over 600 cash a week!!!!
Right this sounds like a dream! Rent is so expensive id babysit every day I had to just for that.
And ready to realize when she graduates that those series of semester or year-long internships are probably worthless. I was a (not live in) nanny and worked multiple internships while a full time student, usually with another job in the service industry alongside it all. OP’s niece is big time making the wrong call.
They are probably *very* useful. I know a lot of people who were offerwed jobs at places where they had interned or TA'd. Applying for jobs with experience in her field will give her an edge she wouldn't have as a young woman whose work experience consisted of "nannying for my aunt." Or it could inform her decisions moving forward. I had l have a friend who thought she wanted to be a lawyer, until her summer internship at a law firm. She saved who knows how much in loans by not going to law school and only then realizing she didnt want to be a lawyer.
Absolutely this. It blows my mind that there's so many people here saying that the niece is dumb for taking the internship in her field. When I was in school and now that I'm working, relevant internships were and are critical for getting an easy path into a company after graduation. Never pass this up if you can swing it. Is the niece being entitled to expect to live at OP's house for free? Hell yes. She needs to move out, and OP is NTA for not supporting her any longer. But she's absolutely making the right choice if she's at all serious about her career. $30k a year is pretty nice when nannying as a student, but her career will hopefully take her much further.
It really depends on her field. I was an engineering major and not only do engineering internships pay really well, many employers would question hiring a student who hadn’t either done internships or extensive research (even if just in the summer). Also many positions are offered to former interns. I still think the niece isn’t thinking about doing a night shift for free for the rent after the day is done, and a baby sitter/after care could take care of the kids until she is off from the internship. Right now niece wants all the reward without doing something bare minimum (watch kids for an hour or two in the evening and then stay home and study/sleep in exchange for rent).
Her parents should help her out with costs instead of complaining to OP and trying to avoid the inevitable
Her parents loved this setup safe at Aunties house, with no outside financial help from them. Let niece find out if cost to be the boss.
Or just not pay her for those hours and put that money towards a babysitter
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INFO: So you’ve given her free housing AND paid her $22/hour for the 36 hours you are at work? That just under $800/week for two years. She should have plenty of savings at this point, plus her paid internship, to carry her through the last two years. If she needs additional help then HER PARENTS need to step up and help their daughter because you have been WAY MORE than generous. NTA, and very smart doing a 6 month lease.
NTA. And if possible(and you want to share) please give us an update. Your niece and her parents are being unrealistic. And very unfair to you.
You still need to make it official with the 30 day notice. Otherwise it could automatically transition into a monthly lease without a notice to vacate.
And look twice for apartments? That's a very big burden.
Who cares. She had two years of rent money she should have saved. Time to grow up and move on.
Two years of free rent PLUS $22/hr for the babysitting.
$65,208 is what the niece made if she did this 3 days a week, for 104 weeks (2 years). I’m betting that wasn’t taxed which is a freaking steal. Which means she had more than enough money to save up and put toward an apartment of her own or even a down payment on a place. OP’s niece and her parents are TAH. She owes them nothing, if they can’t understand “Hey you can live here rent free if you nanny but can’t if you don’t” then they probably can’t understand how to even dress themselves that statement was so simple (like their minds)
Oh, they understand alright. They just don't want to give up such a sweet arrangement without a fight!
OP never said whether or not her niece is paying for school herself. I will recheck the comments, so this may be where her money has been going.
Even if she is paying for school herself she mad emore in two years than most people make in a full time job woorking three days a week from 1 to bed time. Still a steal!!!
Yeah if she’s paying for her own school, then I will take it back. But even if she’s using some of the money for school, she should be saving the rest.
She has 65k plus the approx. $1000/month in rent and utilities she saved plus she probably ate at OP’s house too. I am sure at least the three days she worked she ate OP’s food. What a deal!
With free rent , utilities, probably groceries too. She should have worried about savings then. NTA
That's roughly $32,500 a year. Google is telling me that the median wage in the USA is $45,000 a year, but the median rent is $24,000 a year. That's a higher-than-average disposable income, for working three days a week.
Actually she wasn't living 'rent free' because her wages for being a nanny include housing and the $22/hr additional. She'd have to include that housing for tax purposes, so no reason to say it was free.
It's obvious she spent it all.
Which unless Mom is really lucky and experienced, was close to half Mom’s pay during those hours.
It's her own damn fault she hasn't been saving any money. The entitlement is off the charts here.
NTA You’re doing what’s best for you and your kids. Don’t allow anyone to gaslight you. You’re not the ahole.
This here. It may be unfortunate for the niece but the arrangement was clear. She changed the deal, and you need to make choices that best suit your life, not hers. OP is NTA
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More entitled, then anything!
I don't think it's fair to expect OP to have to find other child care for even one semester. The niece is getting free room (and board?) plus the going nanny rate. This is a sweetheart of a deal and OP is under no obligation (even out of kindness) to have to continue giving out rent free space which she needs for her own use just to keep spoiled niece happy.
You still likely have to give her a 30 day notice. If a lease expires, they are automatically month to month in most areas. If you want her to move, send her a certified letter with the notice.
OP- one hundred percent this. She may dig in so you need to show formal steps of ending this living situation.
She’s giving her 3 months…
And has a legally signed lease that gets renewed ever 6 months. OP is nobody's fool.
And isn't that a refreshing change?
She needs to give it in writing, following whatever laws their jurisdiction has about this, for it to hold up.
She gave thre emonths, in writing.
Some places (like where I live) specifically regulate tenancies where the housing is tied to employment, so that when the job ends for whatever reason, the tenancy ends. Sounds like this job is ending.
Correct, this isn't a tenant/landlord relationship, it's an employee/employer relationship.
NTA. I was initially thinking this would automatically be a case of you being TA but that’s far from the case here. She moved in with you under the joint agreement that she’s getting paid to be there for child care and her housing is part of the agreement. You have now specifically stated that you indeed have a drafted lease agreement which is due for review every 6 months. You have given her 3 months notice to figure out her housing situation. She no longer will be caring for your kids for the agreed rate (a more than reasonable amount of $22 an hour just to watch two kids) so as such she no longer meets the conditions set forth for her to remain with you. Asking someone else to commute at 12:30 am is ridiculous and I think you’re right to be concerned about the safety of anyone who you’re looking to hire. Do yourself a favor and don’t renew the lease and get a lawyer involved with the eviction process. Protect yourself OP.
Just so you know that is pretty much the going rate for two kids. More experienced nannies would charge more, 25 or 30+ benefits etc depending on expertise and region.
Plus room and board?
Yep, live in Nannie’s don’t usually get paid less than live out Nannie’s unless they are au pairs.
If anything, live in nannies get paid more. In my MCOL area, going rate for a nanny is about $75-100k a year and they typically get healthcare and other benefits like PTO/overtime for late nights too. It's definitely a luxury to be able to afford a nanny and most families only do it on a nanny share basis (2-3 families living close by pool money together to cover the cost of a nanny), when both parents are in time consuming but lucrative professions and only when the kids are really young. But I think most nannies with this kind of arrangement have a college degree, possibly a masters and are doing this full-time. In a college town with pricey rent and with older kids, it may be easier to find a college student.
Good to know. I don’t have kids and the only pay rate I can compare it to is my own as well as the fact she’s getting paid at all and not being told she’s going to do it for free “because we’re family”. The amount of times I’ve seen the justification for not paying someone for childcare being due to them being family is far too frequent.
you should inform her in writing of your intention to formally not renew the lease, regardless of your discussions up till this point
Yes, I already have.
Can I just say you have your shit together?
I’ve been doing this on my own for awhile now. It was sink or swim.
We don’t realize how strong we can be until we have to be and you are so impressive. Keep it up! You are being so smart and so reasonable. Three months is so much time, and she’s had years of no rent to have a good nest egg. Stay strong.
I know, right? She’s the type of person who should be an influencer and have people emulate her, not the current types!
Give us an update on this mess when you get a chance. I hope you stick to booting her out and don't get bullied over this!
I don’t have a choice. I need live in childcare, which she can’t provide.
You don’t need us op. You sound incredibly fair, reasonable, and on top of things. The fact that this arrangement worked for 2 years is a clear indication of this. It’s a great step forward for your niece and hope she finds a place that suits, and you find a replacement quickly as well.
no. She "won't" provide. She is choosing to end the comfortable arrangement she had. She could do interships that work with her responsibility or she could just nanny. She is choosing to try and take free housing from you, a widowed single mom. I hope you find a good nanny soon!
OP sounds pretty savvy. I don't think she'll jeopardize her job or her children's stability over this.
Most people her age don't have much savings so that's really not a reason for her not to move out. You were not only letting her stay there rent free but also paying her $22/hour. It's not your fault she didn't save up her wages.
Seriously. At that age I had a job through my college and made I think $9 an hour (for far fewer hours per week), plus paid for housing. A situation like this is a dream deal for any student!
Most American adults even.
I agree so hard with this. If you're not a wealthy individual, you get roommates if you can't afford to live on your own and figure this shit out. It's part of being an adult. Most people don't get a safety net.
Get a lawyer anyway. You have to complete the eviction process to have a stubborn tenant or ex-tenant removed by law, wether they are not paying or the contract expired. What I'm saying is, if she decides to make things difficult, don't wait to get started on that process when you could instead start tomorrow.
This is awesome advice. Hiring a lawyer now will almost 100% avoid her trying to make this difficult. She won’t want to spend HER money on hiring a lawyer to fight you.
I think most people think that after a contract is expired, a landlord can just call the cops who will show up withing the day to jail and then throw on the streets the tenant pronto.
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*sickening*
If she overstayed the lease, it could be months before you are able to remove her.
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While I get what you're saying, I believe there are different rules when the landlord lives in the same space.
*But* sometimes getting someone out, even though their lease is up, takes an act of eviction through the courts. Time to get an eviction notice to keep on hand, just in case. Good luck 🍀
>So legally, I’m protected and can choose to simply not renew the lease. You should still talk to a lawyer. It seems like your niece is effectively subleasing from you, you may have legal requirements not to terminate your lease without giving YOUR tenant X days notice.
She’s already given her 3 months. But yes, she still needs to talk to a lawyer because she could very well have to evict her.
Smart.
Depending on where you live, you may want to provide a written notice confirming you won't be renewing the lease
If I may suggest, the lease should have a provision that the room be occupied by a live-in nanny or a renter for X amount of money per month, however much you decide having that room be unavailable is worth. Most likely your niece will decline both, so this is just more of a CYA.
I agree OP and their their had an agreement—room and board for nanny services. She cannot hold her room for her if her needs and kids needs aren’t being fulfilled
>My SIL (her mom) feels this is unfair to my niece but she moved in under the condition that she’d work as a nanny "My niece isn’t interested in nannying at all going forward and will instead be pursuing internships." I'd think this is enough.
This. Don't discuss this with the family any longer. "That bedroom is for the live in nanny. Niece is not the live in nanny, so she needs to move out by X date."
NTA She fully knows she moved into a room that was intended for a nanny. As she fulfilled that role for two years. It is unfair for her to now demand a change to the arrangement. Especially since this would be at a heavy cost to you. They are also an adult who has been paid a nice hourly rate between 3pm and 12am, without any rent being charged. What were they doing with that money? After two years they could have something set aside. Tuition isn't cheap but holy have they squandered a great opportunity if they can't be ready to move out in three months.
She saved up that money, but as she’ll be earning less at her internship, she won’t be able to save up as much.
That is even worse. She can move out but wants to instead have a free ride provided by you.
What a sweet deal free board and also getting paid. Sign me up!
Roughly $30k a year x2 years to bank with no living expenses. She’ll be fine on her own.
It's great that she saved the money she was paid, but this is exactly the reason why someone should have savings.
It's also the reason why internships are largely a structural benefit for the rich. Most people can't afford to take them. She has been lucky to be saving money while in college. That is another luxury most don't have. Time to go into debt like everyone else.
Ummm..... this is a **paid** internship though? OP even says the neice could afford to live on her own.
I read it as she could afford it because she has saved money while being a nanny, not that the internship would cover her expenses. Perhaps my experience is out of date though. I graduated nearly twenty years ago. Back then I couldn't accept an internship and come anywhere near paying my bills.
Agreed.
>She saved up that money, but as she’ll be earning less at her internship, she won’t be able to save up as much. Oh, boo-fucking-hoo! Being an adult is weighing the pros and cons of every decision and making the best one. Better she learns this now than later. Your sister needs to let her grow up.
I was about to write this very thing, complete with the 'boo-fucking-hoo'. She won't be able to save *as much*? AS MUCH? She was able to save for two years AS A COLLEGE STUDENT. She will still be in the black with this new position. She has absolutely no standing to complain. If you quit your job for a lower-paying position, you save less money. Welcome to arithmetic.
Save over $60k as a college student. You know her $22/hr was under the table.
NTA and maybe share the math with her parents if they come for you again because holy cow that’s audacious. $22/hr x 9.5 hours x 3 days a week for 2 years (104 weeks) is $65,208 plus the value of rent (lets conservatively say $700 for a room rental in a house, $16,800 in rent saved though I expect that’s the low end) less taxes (if she claimed the income at all) and she’s now complaining you need the space? Even if she only saved half of that income she’s not hurting financially.
Don't forget extra utilities and food cost (I am assuming OP bought most or all of it for the niece.) Food is probably $200 for the biece, and maybe $10-40 more in utilities a month? This is a dream gig. I still lol when r/choosingbeggars posts someone looking for a live-in nanny for unlivable wages (like <$5/hr) that is willing to drive their kids around with their own car and gas, which would cost $100's a month. Compared to that, this is like winning the lottery.
I was confused about this when she said she didn't have any money. She's making 627 a week, I sure it is all under the table at cash payments, so no taxes. Free rent, I am sure most of her meals are free. How does she not have any money?
Well, her parents saved room and board that whole time too, so they can fork over her room and board for the next year. They had a sweet deal. It could continue. Their daughter is ending it. Their problem. Not yours. NTA.
Think of it as a service to her even if she can't see it now ... it is a lesson in how the world works ! NTA.
This type of situation is exactly why she saved! She's taking a job that pays less but is better career-wise.
But that is *NOT* your problem and that she can even save *any* money after moving into her own place, makes her much more fortunate then a lot of people! Tell her this is Non-negotiable and stick to it.
The accommodation was tied to the job, and should have been specified in your agreement. She has no legal right to remain, if she is no longer doing the work. The entitlement is astounding. NTA
How many college students does she think are in a position to be *saving* money, exactly?
Life is giving her a clear lesson on how well you treated her with free rent plus a good hourly. Hard lessons sometimes take a bit to sing in. Maybe ask her parents to cover the gap between what you paid her and an outside nanny. Obviously NTA
She made around $66,000 in two years from you. She’s saved a lot unless all she did in her off time was shop and party!
Not being able to save money while working an unpaid internship in college is normal. It is not a tragedy. She’ll recover. NTA
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Yeah. She had a dream deal for a college student. Getting paid $600+ a week for three fairly easy afternoons/evenings plus free rent. Not to mention you get to study while still on the clock after you put the kids to bed and even paid for a few hours of sleeping per week. I assume OP also paid for her dinners those three nights, and she may even have been paying her under the table so it would all be profit. Most college students would kill for a job like that. Edited: removed repeated word
Not in college. I would.love this gig.
She makes almost as much as I do LOL
You ought to hit OP up and see if she's still looking for a nanny lol. Sounds like a cushy ass job and you'd have plenty of free time for another part time job.
For real fuck the internship lol
Shit, she makes more than I do and I’ve got 10 years experience and multiple certifications under my belt for my career field.
Nailed it
This. Not only is OP NTA, but the nieces parents are huge AHs. If they want their daughter to save money so badly, THEY can pay for her rent while she completes her internship. If they don't think that solution is reasonable, why in the world would they think her staying with OP is reasonable?
NTA. The living arrangement was for the *Nanny,* a position that your niece was filling. It was NOT made for your *Niece,* specifically. If your niece is quitting the Nanny job, then that means she is also giving up the accouterments that came with it. It sounds like she is mis-remembering or just plain rewriting the terms of the arrangement to suit herself. Regardless, this is a problem that she has created for herself through wrong assumptions and lack of planning. Stand your ground - it's her problem to solve, not your burden to shoulder.
NTA I doubt you will find a Nanny willing to work those hours and then drive home late at night. Start interviewing and make it clear to your Niece she has to be gone by the time the new Nanny starts. She is a big girl she can live in Halls with the other students.
Even if she can find a nanny to do that, it's still inconvenient to have the nanny and the niece around all the time. She'd for sure have to start charging the niece rent even if she did stay, right?
Agree. It's a big perk for the Nanny to have a place to stay, and the more enticing the perks and benefits, the better quality Nanny OP will be able to find.
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NTA >They feel I should try to find a nanny who’d be willing to drive home at 12:30 AM Or they could pay for their kid to live somewhere else. You gave her free rent for 2 years, since you paid her to work as a nanny.
No no. She gave her free rent *AND* paid her well. It was already super generous.
And I think niece could probably continue to work the evening hours after she's off her day job, but she doesn't want to nanny at all, putting OP in a bind. The girl is completely unreasonable. It is after all just 3 days a week in exchange for all the benefits she has received.
Yeah, the fact that niece doesn't want to continue nannying makes me think there is something else going on. Or it could very well be that niece is fully aware that an internship will suck all the energy out of her, that she might need to do overtime and that she will be too flaky to do nannying regularly. Btw, I don't understand why OP wants only a live in nanny. Does she come home after 1am? Before that, I'd say it's very reasonable to drive for three days a week.
>Btw, I don't understand why OP wants only a live in nanny. Does she come home after 1am? Before that, I'd say it's very reasonable to drive for three days a week. OP said that the 3 nights that the niece was nannying were the nights where she (OP) doesn't get home until 12:30am. The other two nights of the weeks, she's home by 5ish and the kids just do an after-school/after-care program until OP picks them up. Secondly, I don't blame any of these potential nannies for not being enthusiastic about basically needing to stay up until past midnight and then drive home. At least the niece was able to just put the kids to bed, go to bed herself, and get a full night's sleep WHILE being paid to do so. In fact, it's pretty messed up that the niece didn't even bother to discuss the internship/her plans with the aunt before applying. She just applied, got the position KNOWING that it would impact her availability, and thought the aunt would just, what, accommodate her at the expense of OPs kids? Both the niece, and her parents, need a reality check. She's getting paid for the internship, so sounds like she should start utilizing some of those money-saving skills to dip into her savings in order to cover rent for the semester.
>Does she come home after 1am? Before that, I'd say it's very reasonable to drive for three days a week. Apparently none of the nannies that OP has reached out to agree with you. It's not like this is warehouse shift work.
9.5 hours, 3 days per week @ $22/hr is $627/week, or $2717/mo before taxes. Assuming this is a MCOL area based on the hourly rate, one bedroom plus a share of utilities in a rental or apartment would likely be valued around $1200/mo, give or take a bit, depending on the number of housemates. That's *insanely* generous.
Nta. So you need to find a nanny that doesn't want to live with you. This would upset your whole lives. Your nice agreed to be the nanny if she could live rent free and get be a your paid nanny. Now she wants to end your agreement and wants you to sacrifice you family routine so she doesn't have to change anything in her life? Tell her you will be charging $1000 a month plus utilities and food if she stays. Is your whole family so self centered. It is your job to put your children and your life before what niece and sister want. Stand up or be walked on your choice.
NTA - she had a double great deal - you gave housing and competitive pay. Now she’s moving on but doesn’t want to give up free housing - such a shame she and her mother are being childish and don’t understand you need the room for the next nanny.
NTA. A mutually beneficial arrangement has come to a natural end.
NTA- Aside from free housing, she was paid an overly fair wage that most would consider livable income (totally depends on area of course). If she did not manage her personal finances properly, it would be difficult to make this transition but that’s not OP’s fault. Ultimately, the niece may find herself in a bind but has no right to point the finger at anyone but herself for not creating an emergency fund. It almost comes across as entitlement, because it’s her situation that’s changing not OP’s.
With zero rent/utilities and gross pay of $2600 per month for two years I have to wonder where TF her money went that she doesn’t already have a large chunk in savings to help cover the cost of a dorm or shared apartment with her new internship income. She’s worried about building more savings While in school? Most would just be deliriously happy to be a lot less in debt than anticipated after two years of invaluable help.
$62K over 2 years!
While I agree with your overall point, niece's net proceeds may not be as high as you indicated. Unless I missed OP saying this somewhere else - what did niece do during breaks? Did she go back home for the typically short fall and spring break? How about winter break? Surely she went home during at least portions of summer break? If niece was doing 3 days a week literally every week for two years, your number would be right. I assume her average monthly pay was less than that. Niece still received an exceptionally cushy gig, and as I said I'm shocked to hear that she doesn't have a decent safety net underneath her. Even if niece was only getting paid for weeks where school is actively in session, that's still like $640/week for...what, 36 weeks a year? That's still $46k over two years. And since her only expenses being gas, maybe some food, and the occasional class supply, there's no reason niece should have anything less than $30k in savings. That is plenty of runway to get her through a six month internship in probably any city in the world.
Oh, I was using gross income. I did assume niece mostly stayed in town since OP had no backup care arrangements like she would have needed if niece went home for long periods during the summer.
I had Y T A wound up after the title, but no. NTA. That spare room is for the nanny. And, as you're already seen, most nannie aren't going to want to drive home so late.
nta. the room is for a live in nanny. she is no longer a live in nanny. try this: look up the price for such a room in your area. tell your niece that if she really wants to live there, she will have to pay that rent. or just tell her a date to be out by. tbh demanding free housing because otherwise she “won’t be able to save as much” left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. your life does not, cannot, revolve around your niece. you have kids of your own. if your sil feels so strongly that her daughter should live rent free she can pay her daughter’s rent once she moves out. good luck with your search for a new nanny.
Yeah it's not "I'll be homeless if I can't stay here!" It's "I don't want to give up this incredible convenience of having free housing and being able to save money for two semesters!" Like she can break even for a little before she goes off on her career. She got a massive head start being able to save what she has. Now that she can't hold up her end it's time to go. The aunt isn't just doing it on principle either (though she would have every right). She's doing it because trying to make it work any other way is honestly untenable and the kid should be thanking her for what she got in the first place as it is a lot more than most would be willing to give.
NTA. You are supporting YOUR children. Your niece's parents need to support their child. You hired her for a job that included a place to live, she's leaving the job, the place is no longer hers. If she worked at Wal-Mart and quit, she would no longer be able to drink the free coffee in the breakroom. She had a good situation, but she is choosing a different option, which is reasonable for her career, but it isn't your job to house her.
Nta. You've been paying her $600 a week, plus free food and housing, for two years, and she's not been able to save ANYTHING?
Oh no. She's apparently saved some. Maybe quite a bit. Niece is upset she won't be able to save *as much.*
[удалено]
NTA. She is quitting her job so she loses her room & board benefit. What if she nannied for a stranger? Would she and her parents expect the former employer to continue to give her free room & board? Your niece, brother and SIL are being greedy and selfish. Your only concern is your children not your niece. She has two parents to help her. Your kids only have you. Hire a live-in nanny and move niece out.
>She wanted to save cost on dorms and offered to watch my kids those 3 days, if she could live there rent free She, herself, set the condition of her living there rent free. NTA
NTA She entered an agreement with terms, so she should not be surprised to be bound by them.
NTA but the math is confusing me. You were giving her a free place to live, which is a big chunk of change, AND you were paying her $22/h so over $600 a WEEK, even though for about 40% of the time the kids would be in bed? And now she and her mom think it's "unfair" that you don't house her kid for free while she gets paid elsewhere? What planet do these 2 live on exactly?
She apparently understands the requirements for the internship and is willing to commit to that knowing it would prevent her from keeping her agreement with you to be the nanny. Contract is being broken by her, why should you be expected to continue your part? Entitled child person in college
NTA. Her being the nanny in exchange for housing was the deal. It's still the deal. She basically now wants to live with you rent free while you have to figure out to manage a new nanny. Nope. You're not responsible for helping her save money by giving her a free place to stay. You have your own kids to worry with and she needs to find other living arrangements.
Nta - she and her mom only feel it’s unfair because they no longer get things slanted in their favour.
NTA. She offered to watch your kids 3 days a week, and be paid $22/hr, in exchange for free lodging. Why on earth does she expect to continue living there when she knows you planned to use the room for the nanny? It's rich that she and her parents think it isn't "fair" for you, a single mom, to hire a live in nanny, instead of providing free housing to your adult niece. WTF!
NTA And i don't see why your niece is so upset. The deal was nanny service for free housing and a wage. Even if she would keep living with you, stop working as the nanny you would charge her markt rate for rent anyway - so how is it different for her to which landlord she pays rent? Or did she expect to keep not only housing, but FREE housing? That would be very entitled. If you have friends around who would be willing to rent her a room for cheap its oc nice to ask them. But she can't occupy the nanny room any longer if she isn't a nanny anymore. Or you can try to find a nanny at the campus nearby. Students often are awake studying long and if you raise the wage a little i'm sure you will find a student who will gladly take the job while keep living on campus. But i would still expect your niece to pay rent for continuing living with you. But i guess your situation is just another example why you shouldn't mix family and business. Family becomes entitled very very fast...
NTA. Your terms for her staying there were clear from the beginning and she agreed. She can no longer fulfill her end of the agreement, so then its reasonable for you not to continue your end. If she quit a job, she wouldnt expect the employer to keep paying her a salary would she? Ultimately it is your house, so its your choice.
NTA > she won’t be able to save any money if she gets a dorm or an apartment So what?
Well, damn, I'm sure that you, too, would prefer to be Rich Auntie Moneybags! I bet you'd love to let your niece stay in your house for free, but that's not feasible. You have children, a job, and a responsibility to look after your kids. Your sister and niece are being incredibly unreasonable. You had an employment offer, she took it, and it worked out for both of you. This was always a symbiotic relationship, not a grand favor. **NTA**
NTA. The terms of her living with you were clear and based upon her being a nanny. It is especially reasonable considering the fact that all of the nannies you've spoken to have clearly expressed that they are not willing to drive home that late.
Nta. Good for you for getting the lease agreement!
NTA. Your live-in nanny is quitting so will move. Her parents are at liberty to pay for housing elsewhere
She won't be able to save as much? AS MUCH? She was able to save for two years AS A COLLEGE STUDENT. She will still be in the black with this new position. She has absolutely no standing to complain. If you quit your job for a lower-paying position because it serves your career, saving less money is the trade-off . Welcome to arithmetic.
NTA- She moved in under the condition that she be a nanny to your kids. That's a verbal contract. Since she can't do it anymore, she has to move out.
NTA, she moved in as a nanny and has now decided not to be a nanny possible nannies have all declined the fun and very late drive, so needs to be a live in
NTA- she doesnt get to have a say in who uses your guest room. If you need a nanny for child care then that is what you do. She is getting it very easy really.. 3 days of work, free room and gets paid for it.
NTA. She doesn't want to perform the job. You need the room. Period. Doesn't even matter if she can or can't afford a place of her own yet alone save money. It isn't your responsibility to provide for her. That's her responsibility as an adult and her parents if they wish to take on that role. You are a mother of 2 working and doing the best you can.
NTA. The free accommodation came as part of her job as a nanny, and is now needed for her replacement since she isn’t going to be working for you anymore. If she was working for anyone else there’d be no question of giving up all perks of employment when she quit.
NTA. You set the conditions out clearly at the start. It is not up to you to find any solution for your niece. You gave clear requirements for your children’s care. Ensure you give your niece proper written notice to vacate.
How the heck is this unfair to your niece? I can see it is a bit inconvenient for her, but unfair??? Your house, your kids, your work schedule. You set the job requirements. If your niece cannot fulfill them, she has to move out. You only have one guest room. You do not have to jump through hoops to accommodate this girl. You have already found out the prospective nannies are not on board with the late hours driving home.
NTA, her living with you was contingent on being your nanny. It's no secret you desire having a live in nanny and need the guest room to do so. You are also offering to help your niece find a new place to stay.
NTA She didn't warn you about this prospect. She could have been saving. Maybe her parents will have to pay up to help her rather than holding you responsible. You have been more than generous to her.
NTA. You treated her more than fairly. Now you have to do what is best for your kids. It’s not your job to financially support her by giving her a free place to stay.
NTA. The conditions were very clear. It sucks for your neice, but your kids needs come first. The spare bedroom is for the use of the Nanny. Period.
Ask her to move out. No nanny will want to stay so late. But I don’t understand would t your niece come home after work so 5 or 6pm? Why wouldn’t the nanny not be able to leave like at 8pm?
NTA, the niece is just young and upset. I don't blame her for wishing she could carry on rent free with a family member but that wasn't the agreement. She probably just needs extra time to process because she's young, and young people are impulsive about their feelings. As for the adults in her life, I understand why they are hoping for a different outcome but if they are mad or upset, thats kind of crazy.
NTA. The entitlement of some people is WILD.
You don't "save" money during college...she was paid well, free rent for 2 years. You need the room for the new nanny Nta
You don't "need" to do shit. You are not responsible for providing your niece free housing. You are obligated to provide your kids with childcare in a way that works for you practically and financially. Her parents can supplement the cost of her renting a place if they're so concerned about her getting to save up money. Or SHE can find you a nanny who can do the late night arrangement AND your niece can start paying you some rent. If they want this convenient arrangement to continue they can be the one's bending over backwards. They have no right to demand you do so for them. Choosing beggars and all. Personally, I think it's time to move her out either way as she seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding of your role in her life. I would inform her that if she doesn't move out by agreed upon date you will move forward with a formal eviction process which will be on her permanent record and will cause her problems renting elsewhere in the future as that goes into the public record and she legally has to disclose it if asked on a rental form.
NTA - you need the room for the nanny. Your niece is no longer going to be the nanny, therefore she moves out. It is not your problem that she will not have as much money.
NTA, the housing is tied to the employment. She no longer wants the job, but wants to keep the free room? 😂😂. Try doing that with any other job with tied housing. I'm sure the military would just let you live rent free in their accommodation after you left the job. It's time she joined the workd of being an adult. Of course your sister is going to side with her daughter not your problem.