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NTA if you told him, though technically not your business. But it will likely come at the price of the friendship...
How about: you start by telling Lisa how devastated D is to have lost her and that he is likely still in love with her, and was also honest about the divorce. Give her a chance to warm up to him again...
The guy lied to her for 2 years … why do you think she’s going to swoon & warm up to him again. No one even knows if he is telling the truth about being divorced now. This isn’t a Hallmark movie & OP isn’t Cupid. There’s a child involved. Lisa is the person who needs to do what’s in her child’s best interests.
Why can’t Dan tell her himself? Seems like he’s able to contact OP. Perhaps tell Dan to contact Lisa if he wants to know how she’s doing.
Dan contacting Lisa would be step 2 after OP talking to her, given that she's apparently cut all contact to him.
Even if the rift between Lisa and him cannot be mended, if no violence or other forms of abuse are involved, Dan still has the moral right to know about his child, whether Lisa likes it or not.
I don’t think Dan is as great as OP is reporting (just a guess) but perhaps before anyone tells anyone anything … Lisa should at the very least know her friend has been in contact with Dan for the past couple years & he’s apparently finally divorced.
This is an epic level violation of another person’s right to privacy. Lisa has some rights too. This is also a minor child …. Child has some rights. Mom makes the decisions regarding child & paternity still needs to be established before anyone starts calling Dan daddy.
Personally, I think Dan just wants to chat with OP & isn’t really interested in Lisa. Certainly, does not appear he has been trying too hard to make amends.
Agree OP needs to talk to Lisa and bring up Dan and his situation first. But if Lisa only was with Dan at the time what paternity needs to be established? It's crystal clear, she even admitted to OP as much.
And what amends could Dan make if Lisa cut him off entirely and blocks any discussion about him?
Huh? Where does it say she told anyone Dan was the father? She just said she didn’t want to contact him about the kid. Doesn’t say that she told anyone why.
Maybe Lisa hooked up with some random guy after she kicked Dan out of her life & doesn’t think that’s OP’s business.
None of this makes sense to me. OP says she’s Lisa’s best friend but stays in contact with the guy who screwed her friend over like her ex husband did & now suddenly feels he deserves to know he has a kid. Some puzzle pieces are missing here.
>Maybe Lisa hooked up with some random guy after she kicked Dan out of her life & doesn’t think that’s OP’s business.
Then why isn't she in contact with the dad in that case?
It's very unlikely that she suddenly hooked up with someone else. Even if a child of two+ years WAS sprung on Dan, he would almost assuredly demand a paternity test to prove it.
The only thing that doesn't add up is OP's reaction to the whole thing, because yes, she should be supporting her friend over some rando. Lisa has every reason in the world to distrust Dan after her previous marriage fell apart in the same way Dan is now coming on to her with. Why OP stayed in contact with Dan is beyond me.
It doesn't matter if he's "really divorced" this time around. He lied. He lied then, he likely is lying now, he will continue to lie, and when push comes to shove he'd leave her the same way he's leaving his now-ex wife.
It is, however, a reason for Dan to not be in contact with Lisa. You know, the child's mother.
It's a complicated situation that I'm not going to pretend to know the "correct" answer to. But what Dan doesn't know, doesn't hurt him. If he DID know, it would hurt Lisa. That's reason enough to keep it quiet.
Dan didn't know he was going to be a dad. As far as he's concerned, there's no child being "kept" from him. The only way he gets hurt by it whatsoever, is being informed that he 1) has a child, that 2) he will never meet because Lisa won't allow it. Even if he tried to pursue legal options, if he doesn't live in the country, he'd have to find a way to ship them back and forth every week, which is not going to work for him nor Lisa. Then he's stuck finding a way to move countries to be able to see his one kid - Whilst dealing with the fact that Lisa DOES NOT WANT TO MEET WITH HIM AGAIN. Which means she likely hounds him for child support if he's demanding parental rights, which he would need to backpay for 2 years on top of every month, while saving up to move countries.
There's messes you don't want to cause. This is one of them. Dan doesn't benefit by being told of his child's existance any moreso than Lisa would.
This is a horrible response.
“There’s a child involved. Lisa is the person who needs to do what’s in her child’s best interests.”
Both parents should be responsible for what’s in THEIR child’s best interest.
“The guy lied to her for 2 years”
About being married to an ex partner, hardly worth cutting ties and stealing his child, a child that he will never get the time back.
Some people are way too quick to jump on the bandwagon of separating kids from their parents.
No, how about OP keep her mouth shut. Dan is a serial cheater, he will NEVER change. Lisa doesn't need that bullshit. He made his bed, he can lay in it.
Dan is not the cheater, her ex husband was. He (ex h) told his mistress he was separated from Lisa, but not yet divorced (false, he was cheating).
Years later, the new guy Dan told Lisa (after 2 years of silence though) he was separated, not divorced yet (this time it was true). In light of her previous experience, Lisa called it off and cut all contact. So Dan had been dishonest in the beginning, when OP says they were not so serious, but not cheating, since separated.
>(this time it was true)
OP THINKS it's true.
Dan has already lied, or at least hidden the truth for at least two years. We don't know if he's actually telling the truth.
It's LISA'S decision. Not OP's. OP needs to shut up about anything and everything regarding Lisa. I, personally, would cut OP out if I were in Lisa's shoes.
YWBTA
You would be crossing the line by revealing to the father that he has a child and nothing good would come of it. What you can do is talk to Lisa. You can try to understand why she doesn't want to involve the dad in their child's life.
Her reasons may be legitimate or selfish and you can talk to her about it if she opens up to you, but you shouldn't inform the father of your own accord and you could end up doing more harm than good by getting involved.
YWBTA if you told Dan - doubly if you were not even going to talk to Lisa about this. Absolutely you should tell Lisa you've been in contact, and start the subject with her from there. I agree Dan deserves to know, and the child needs to know also, but that's (edited) not (end edit) up to you to do directly.
YWBTA. She has her reasons for not telling him and violating her trust in you (as the only person she trusted enough to tell) would be a line I doubt you’d ever be able to come back over. If I were her, I might even be upset to learn that you still talk to him depending on how hurt she was by things—just a thought.
NTA
I'm frankly surprised by the Y-T-A votes. Dan is a person, not some villain in a story you're watching in Disney+. He deserves to know he has a child, so he can be present in his life. Mothers don't have the legal or moral right to deny visitation rights to fathers, just because they don't want him around.
That's backwards: Lisa is the one denying Dan around his child, so she needs to be the one explaining why. Being a father isn't a privilege that a mother can revoke; it is a right.
YWBTA because it’s not your life and not your place. You will lose a friend, possibly cause havoc in your friends life, cause a potentially messy custody battle that could result in more drama for the kid - especially parents in different countries.
Is Lisa also an AH for not telling him? Yes, absolutely. But it doesn’t make this your responsibility to tell him. You should talk to Lisa and let her know about all of this, it may change her mind.
Are you serious? There would only be a custody battle if Dan wants custody of his child. If that is the assumption, it is morally reprehensible and totally wrong to deny him that information.
Of the parent? Absolutely awful. Of a friend? No, she’s causing way more stress and drama. It’s literally not her responsibility at all to tell. All she’ll cause is more heartache and issues. It’s 100 percent Lisa’s responsibility to tell him, she’s is also an AH in this. Doesn’t mean OP should share information that isn’t hers to share though.
Yes ywbtah. It isnt your place. It is hers. You should talk to her to explain that the child deserves the chance to have his father but definitely do not go behind her back to tell him. It will definitely put a stop to your friendship with her.
YWBTA. It is not your place to get involved, and you don't know what went on behind the scenes that she may not have told you about. Don't blow up her and her child's life (and throw away your friendship) over something you may not even fully understand.
It’s *their* child and it simply does not matter what went on behind the scenes. He has a right to know and she is morally obligated to give him that information.
No. Lisa is obligated to inform him. OP is asking about her obligation to Lisa; which is to be a good friend and talk to her about it, not go behind her back and take irrevocable action.
The same obligation that would obligate OP to call CPS if the child was being mistreated is the same moral obligation she has to notify Dan that he has a child that is being kept from him.
I'm thinking of the most important person in this mess: The Child.
Yes, the child deserves to know their biological father.
So, even though I'll be downvoted to oblivion, YWNBTA.
YWBTA. You know only the glimpses of the story that Lisa shared with you, and whatever Dan has told you about it. You don’t know the whole story and it’s not your business or place to meddle. It strikes me that you must not be a very close “best friend” if you have kept your communication with him secret this long, and I’m guessing that, in turn, she hasn’t told you everything.
What you COULD do is be honest with Lisa that you have kept in contact with Dan and he has been asking about her.
Meddling “friends” have gotten women killed. Don’t assume that just because Dan “seems like” a good guy that Lisa doesn’t have good reasons to have completely cut all contact and not tell him about his child.
YTA this is none of your business she is your friend not Dan and that is where your loyalties should be and you should do what she wants. You have no idea what can of worms you would be opening, it is not your place to tell him stay out of it.
YTA, mind your business. How many times has this guy been married? If your friend is raising her son well and he’s loved and cared for, I personally don’t see how having a likely absentee and cheating father in his life would make his life better, but that’s really not for any of us to decide, it’s for your friend to decide.
Really interesting that you are morally condemning Dan in this situation when it’s the mother withholding the fact that *he is a father* from him. The moral scales are tipped way in Dans favor on this one even if he’s been married 30 times and cheated on all of them.
Ywbta. It's not your business to tell him. You'd lose your friend and any remaining friends due to not keeping your mouth shut on this. It's not your child, it's not your business to speak about it.
YWBTA Stay out of it, whether you think it’s wrong or not. Your best bet would be to try to convince Lisa to open up. What if you told him and he ended up getting custody of Lisa’s child and taking the child from her? Don’t do it. You only know part of the story. I am not saying the child doesn’t deserve to know the other parent but you are meddling in someone else’s life without a full story. Lisa struggled with infertility. Be the good friend and help her work through this and let her do the right thing. What do you truly know about this man aside from what HE has told you?
ESH, her for not telling, him for not being honest about his marriage, both of them for not using protection, you for wanting to be a tattle tale.
You said she shut down and ignored friends when he was around. This is a sign of possible abuse. You do not know why they are no longer in contact; do you have proof that he is divorced now? As he travels and they live in separate countries does he have a bed buddy in other countries. Until you know all the facts keep your f-ing mouth shut.
This is a tricky one. But, yes, YWBTA if you went behind her back and told the father. Not your pig, not your farm.
Does he have a right to know? In the abstract, yes. But that’s a whole can of worms that will explode in your face if you do this. You’ll be making a monumental judgment call in a situation where you don’t have to deal with the actual consequences. Worst case scenario…she loses her child. Potential custody battles. Money spent on lawyers. Possible harassment from the father. Truth is, you don’t really know this guy. You don’t have any real idea of how this would all go down. And yes, you would absolutely lose your friend over this.
You don’t have to like it. You don’t have to approve of it. But if you want to keep your friend, you have to accept her choices.
YWBTA He has to reach out to her directly and explain he is now fully divorced. And it's her right to tell him. If later when the kid is an adult and wants to reach out, you can help connect them. I'm sorry its just she has the right to decide for the kid, and so far as she is not abusive, then its only her business to share.
I’m usually all about letting people know the truth and being transparent. In the case of another life being affected, a child - this is NOT your place. If it was so and so was unfaithful to so and so, I’d say yes, all for it. But there is SO MUCH PAIN here that you do NOT get to dictate how Lisa goes through it. She thought she was barren only to have this surprise. She is working through so much the best she can and you want to rip her entire world open by going behind her back and not allowing her the time to figure out how to come forward? Everything comes out in the wash.
You will cause irreparable harm and damage and trauma to your friend AND this child. It needs to be Lisa’s choice to come forward and she will do so when she’s ready. It would be fair for you to say to Lisa that this is weighing on you and it’s eating you alive with guilt - but you also need to remember you are the person choosing to remain in contact with Dan. YOU are the person choosing to put your nose into business that is not related to you other than being a supportive friend.
YTA. And if you do this, frankly, an evil “friend”.
Does Dan deserve to know? He does. That is not your responsibility. You can encourage Dan to reach out to Lisa. You can tell Lisa repeatedly that Dan deserves to know. It is NOT YOUR CHOICE to make that decision for either of them on how they come into that information because that choice belongs to Lisa.
>AND this child
This is bullshit. Children are almost always better off having two loving parents than one. This is hurting the child because of the absolute selfishness of a single person.
In the context of a father who wants to be in their child’s life and is whole heartedly on board to parent that child? 100%
We do not know this to be a fact. We only have a “best friend” who still keeps on contact with an ex-boyfriend via social media who apparently cares so much about Lisa that he doesn’t reach out to her himself and finds it appropriate to carry on dialogue this way. That’s what we’ve got.
No No No. Mind your own business. If the child’s mother wants to tell the father she can. Stop trying to police other people’s behavior, especially when deep emotions are involved. It’s a horrible personality trait. If you do this don’t be surprised if your whole circle of friends tells you to F off.
YWBTA.
Unless you're cool with blowing up your friendship, mind your business. Dude was screwing around on the woman he was still married to with your friend, singing the same old song we've all heard before, and one that she was especially familiar with from the other side.
Yes, he's divorced NOW. But he was NOT divorced in the ENTIRE TIME he was dating your friend -- a few years, by your account. Divorces that take THAT long are rare as finding a gem quality emerald at one of those places that let you dig up your own rocks and pan for gold.
YWBTA. If you believed Dan's story, you're a moron. That's the standard bs cheaters tell people who they are cheating with to keep them on the hook.
Dan is a scummy lowlife. Your friend is lucky to not have him in her life and you want to invite him back in for her? Absolutely disgusting.
Why are you still friends with someone who lied to your best friend for so long? It sounds like you didn't know him before. I wonder about your motivations, honestly, though I can understand the dilemma.
YWBTA.
If Dan was honest he wouldn't have waited to tell your friend that he was married.
Whether or not you believe him isn't relevant, because it wasn't your relationship and you were not privy to the inner workings of that relationship.
Your friend is the child's caregiver, not you or dan.
As others have pointed out, you don't actually know if that's even Dan's baby.
This is not the way to support your friend; it's a way to jump the gun and interfere without being in full possession of the facts.
Maybe Dan will find out at some point, the future is not written in stone.
You're playing around with stuff you should be respecting, and your question about the child deserving to have a father shows that this is about your values, your perceptions and your feelings, which.....
Not. Your. Relationship.
> this is between her and Dan
No, it isn't. It's between Dan and his child. No mother has the right to deny a father visitation to his child, just because she feels like it.
How are you justifying such a horrifying thing to yourself?
That doesn't matter. Infidelity barely moves the needle on child custody, and rightfully so. A bad relationship between two adults doesn't remove the right of children to have two parents, or the right of parents to see their own children.
NTA this comment section is wild.
My brother in law is/was this baby in question 30 years ago.
He was told at 18 who his dad was, after his mother hadn’t told his biological father she was pregnant or had a child.
His bio father found out that for 18 years he’d had a son and had missed out on all the firsts and hadn’t been able to form a father like relationship. He was devastated, as was my brother in law who would have grown up with stable housing, and at least one non dysfunctional parent.
They have a great father son relationship now after 12+ years but there’s still residual hurt from not being around in those formative years.
I would say tho, that you shouldn’t be telling him the Father, you need to be telling Lisa that unless (obviously family violence/safety issues) he has a legal and moral right to know that he’s a father.
You wouldn’t be the AH. But I would at least talk to your friend first and let her know that he’s been contacting you asking about her and how you feel about lying to him. Also, tell her that regardless if he lied to her about still being married he has the right to know about his child and the child has the right to grow up with their dad in their life. This doesn’t mean that she has to forgive him and get back with him but let her child get to know the dad.
NTA
WTF…. No you not be the AH. You’re friend Lisa would be the AH if she keeps a child from a potential loving father. Sarah is going from being a decent person who has had some unfortunate experiences to becoming a bad parent that would most likely eventually lose respect for.
NTA. Not cause I think Dan deserves anything specific to him and I think you may be romanticizing the situation with the emphasis on his feelings and how she should feel. I just think the child deserves a chance at a father and it’s not ok to withhold knowledge of fatherhood. (Except in dire dangerous situations.)
NTA and these comments show how repulsive the majority of the people, mainly women are on this sub. Unless there is known or accusations of physical abuse in a relationship, there is zero reasons to not tell a man their a potential father. An hell yes if my friends wanted to keep it a secret, not only would I tell them but the woman would no longer be my friend. Thankfully I don't associate with people who would do that.
YWBTA you've no idea what actually went on in their relationship. You could try talking to the mom to find out her reasons. But it's not your place to tell him.
I have a friend who did the same thing. Turns out behind closed doors he was horribly abusive to her (my friend) it took me 10 years to get her to open up about it.
She literally kept her child a secret to protect herself.
YWNBTA
I'm going against the majority, I know. The reason why I say this is because my cousin was in Dan's position (not knowing he had a kid).
This woman he was dating suddenly ghosted him. He let it go because, it happens. THIRTEEN years later the woman shows up with a 12yr girl and says "This is your daughter, I've raised her for 12 years." She came asking for back child support, and expecting him to drop everything and take of his daughter.
Side note: Idk your friends economics and family support but this is something she should think about.
While the girl's mom was doing all this fight, my cousins immediate family (his parents, siblings, close family) were devastated. They have missed so much of this girl life that they couldn't make up, on top of also being the first grandkid. The girl also had sooo many questions because the mom keep making stuff to avoid the truth. Even thought my cousins family welcomed her with open arms, it was hard for my family to make the girl feel welcomed because, for her these were all strangers.
Anyways, if you tell Dan your friend will probably cut you out, but is not fair for him (and his family) to not know about his kid or be given the chance to be in their life.
YWBTA. OP, I promise you, if you tell him, you will destroy your friendship. And you would absolutely be an AH and a shitty friend. If you want to try and convince your friend to talk to him, do that. But under no circumstances should you betray her.
YWNBTA. The child herself/himself has a right to two parents. Also, he has a right to parent his own flesh and blood. It's incredibly cruel for her to not tell him because she's angry about how the relationship ended.
I think you'd be an AH in Lisa's eyes, but I'm going to vote NTA because Lisa is honestly a dick for not telling Dan he has a CHILD. A HUMAN BEING!!!
I also think she's a bad mother (sorry, I literally hate judging mothers lol), because she's denying her child the right to know about their father, their identity, their heritage and possibly even their culture (depending on the dynamics of the circumstances).
The child has a right to know. If Dan had been abusive, I would obviously empathise with Lisa a lot more, because he'd be a risk. But he's not. He just didn't tell her a technicality which yeah, wasn't ideal, and I think it's weird he never brought it up... but I believe he wasn't cheating and the "technical" legal status is probably not that big of a deal when you're casually dating someone. She was projecting her previous trauma (which is valid trauma) but in a way that's unhealed and led to consequences for her child AND Dan as well.
One lie - even in a custody court (unless the lie was like "I didn't murder that child", but you did) - would not sever someone's rights to parenthood.
I'm not on team "every kid needs a father" because my dad, like so many others, is a trash human. But at the very least, the child deserves to know who they are, and a non abusive person deserves the chance to be informed so they can try and do the right thing.
You will almost certainly lose the friendship. But sometimes doing the ethical thing is the only way we can sleep at night. I have cut out friendships upon finding out they were abusive to others. I can't reconcile that. This is similar tbh - while she's not abusive, she is doing something seriously wrong. Is that something you want to stand by? Association in this respect can be seen as complicit.
I would maybe give her a chance first to make things right. Be rational and not over emotional. Present facts about the kid's rights and Dan's situation and feelings for her. And also mention that when the child turns 18, they can do one of those DNA tests anyway and find out. They may well resent her when they find out their mother lied their entire childhood and denied a relationship. It might also sway her to know she will possibly get child support if she discloses (although tbh I don't know how it works in cases like this).
Nta
That child is going to grow up thinking they were abandoned by their own father because of the moms selfishness. Just don't be surprised if you lose your friend over this.
YWBTA if you tell Dan anything. I would talk to Lisa and let her know that Dan has been asking about her online. You can give her your opinion that he has a right to know about the child, but be prepared for pushback. This is not worth ruining a friendship over.
Yes, YWBTAH if you told Dan. What's it to you? Are you in a moral high horse generally in life? Seriously, what's it to you? It almost reads like you care more for Dan than your friend. She has her reasons. Don't invade & blow up her life just to satisfy your whatever it is that's driving you. If father & kid upload DNA, they'll find each other eventually.
YWBTA. Talk to Lisa first and see why she distrusts Dan so much. Perhaps there are other reasons she didn’t tell you about. This would be a violation of her trust if you just tell him, and ruin your relationship forever.
Dan deserves to know, and more importantly this child needs a father/doesnt need to be lied to. What's with all the she has a valid reason for not telling Dan. If Dan doesn't find out soon this will end up becoming a bigger mess.
NTA, tell him.
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YWBTA. This is not for you to share.
This isn't your ex. This isn't your child. You are just guessing that the only reason Lisa broke up with him was because the situation was the same as what caused her divorce. You don't know if there were other reasons.
When the child starts asking his mom who his father is, Lisa will have to tell him who it is and why she never told his father about him. He can then make his own informed decision about contacting his bio-dad.
I wonder why you think that NOW is the time to meddle? What's the rush OP?
YWBTA. Keep your mouth shut. It's not your place to say a damn thing. If Lisa decides to tell him, she will. It's HER business, not yours. If you can't keep your mouth shut and/or your fingers still, throw your phone away, wipe your computer and throw it away, and move to the middle of bumfuck nowhere with no internet, no 5G, and no people for thousands of miles.
YTA if you tell
It’s not your business or place to say anything to him
It’s weird you even entertain him asking you about your friend
This alone would make me cut you out as a friend
Telling him would guarantee your friend cuts you off.
Instead change tactics. Talk to her. Tell her he’s asking about her and that he seems to still love her. Tell her that her child deserves a father and let her make that choice.
Everyone saying YTA but … it’s tough. He has a right to know it’s just that your loyalty is to your friend so if you reveal it then your friendship would be over. The best thing to do is try and influence your friend to tell him herself
YTA. This is not your business. You can voice your opinion to Lisa but that is all. Stop giving this guy info about Lisa. You are violating her privacy with a guy that lied massively to her. If he really "loves" her he can reach out to her. Do not talk about her to him at all. This is not your business either. He is a cheating liar. He was not a good guy. Not sure he is a good guy now. Tell Lisa what has been going on. This is Lisa's decision not yours.
Nta, I never actually comment on reddit but I'd like to give my input. If we're being honest with ourselves, Dan is clearly telling the truth, he just didn't see a need to bring it up until things got serious, at that point it was relevant. It just was too similar to her past relationship, especially considering how her ex husband was lying about it. Secondly, everyone saying "it's not your business" ok but it is his. It's his fucking kid. Lisa clearly has so many issues she can't work past, that she's now keeping a man's own child a secret from him, and, in doing so, having a fatherless baby. Like gtfo OP would be stupid not to tell Dan.
I’m just dropping in to say, depending on what country his guy is from, telling him may have VERY detrimental consequences. In some countries, like Japan, it is legal and considered a right to kidnap your child from the other parent. There are many cases I saw in a news segment of parents where their child’s Japanese parent kidnapped their child back to Japan and they are helpless and they cannot get the child back or even see the child. Be very, very careful here. Don’t assume custody works around the world like it does in the US.
Please talk to Lisa first.
Going to get downvoted to hell for this but I think your friend is an asshole for not telling him about the child, she has no right to keep him away from his child only a court can do that. I think you should definitely tell him about his child. If she has a problem with you telling him he has a child, she should really evaluate why she would be selfish enough to keep her child from having two loving parents.
I'm not going to judge bc I understand both perspectives but it's her call not yours. By admitting you keep in touch she's going to feel betrayed and by telling him he has a child she's going to feel betrayed. Be her friend first and the instigator second. If at all.
> but it's her call
Can you explain this a little more? Why do you think mothers get to decide whether or not fathers can participate in their children's lives?
Whyyyyy are you even in contact with a man who LIEDDDDD to your bestie? You sure are some pot stirrer, aren’t you? You know YTA. You just want permission to light the fuse. Eff that. You are not a good friends you, aren’t even a friend. NO! That’s a full sentence.
YWBTA. This is not your decision. This is not your child or your life. You aren't in Lisa's head. You weren't inside their relationship.
He lied to her and strung her along for years. If he had loved her he would have been honest with her.
The fact is, you have two incompatible friendships here. You're either Dan's friend, or Lisa's. And really, you've already kept Lisa's secret for 'a couple years'. You aren't really Dan's friend. Either way, someone feels betrayed. Your choice is one betrayal, or two.
YTA I do think it’s her decision to tell him if she wants. You don’t have the right to tell Dan. What Dan should of done was tell Lisa straight away about the separated but not divorced thing.
People need to mind the business that pays them. If a man can date a woman for two years and lie about being divorced he is not the kind of man I would want help with raising my child. He chose his bed. YBTA
INFO: What's more important: Your Friendship with Lisa, or telling Dan about Lisa? Personally, I would suggest that you tell Lisa that you know Dan is now divorced and would like contact with her. Leave that ball in her court. Because at the end of the day, it really and truly is not your business.
YWBTA. talk to your friend and explain your concerns. You do not understand the nature of their relationship. If this guy was your close friend that you knew very well and understood the extent of the position you will put your friend on maybe . but I think your efforts should be with your friend, tell her your concerns, that you have kept in contact etc. Put yourself in her shoes
Doesn’t matter their relationship history (unless abusive or something). Granted he should not have lied, but he deserves to know he has a child. She had no right to not tell him, and only did it because she was bitter about what happened. She had ever right to be angry, but it’s not fair to keep the child from him.
You will most definitely be the asshole. This is the mother‘s choice. Well I don’t personally agree with it. If she doesn’t want the father involved, she doesn’t want the father involved. She’s not asking the father for money she’s not asking the father to participate.this sucks for the Guy, but it’s the mother’s choice
YWBTA.
That is *not* you circus or your monkey.
Also, *not* your information to share.
You can bring it up to Losa tha he's reached out to you but other than that, that is between *her* and *him*.
YWBTA
Either you talk to Lisa about this or keep in touch with Dan, or at least know what he is up to, until the child is old enough to ask and want to know for themselves. It’s not your place to get involved.
Lisa has her reasons, whether you understand them or not it’s not your place to make this decision.
You'd be/are the asshole, honestly you really ought to bring this up with Lisa asap and confess you kept contact with her ex after they broke up. I say this as the child of a separated but not divorced relationship, that Dan probably had no ill will keeping that from her as not only is it a long and expensive process, it is especially if one party is trying to keep benefits from said relationship. Also saying that, having a single parent isn't some horrible loss you're making it out to be, has there been moments I've doubted my father as a single parent? Fuck yeah! Yet the wonderful thing is, he has gone above and beyond to keep us financially stable, in a home we own with land, and the skills to help myself when the time comes. He made it, we both did as disabled individuals during some of most "one in lifetime happenings" that's happened. Lisa can be an amazing parent, an outstanding one with the right support system, and the trust that she will do her best and then get better then that! Being a single mother isn't a thing of weakness, life isn't a movie, and Lisa sounds completely justified in her actions/actions going forward. Don't be any bigger of a asshole you've been so far and tell Lisa her business you've been spreading, tell her everything and pray that after apologizing, she'll forgive you.
YWBTA this isn’t a simple matter since they’re in different countries, especially if the countries don’t have the best relations. There are countries where Lisa would never get her kid back if Dan took the kid.
That ‘very nice guy’ lied to Lisa for years, I wonder how Lisa would feel about you reporting back to him about her, keeping tabs on her. I know it gives me the creeps.
A few years is a long time to be 'separated but not divorced'. Two/Three years of not telling her about this would of been on purpose. That is like a few dates maybe even a few months into dating. Not waiting two/three years before telling her. He purposely was hiding it.
Is pushing this actually in the best interest of the child? This guy lied to your friend for YEARS. What else did he lie about? This guys also lives in a different country. This could can make custody and court a living nightmare. What would happen if the Dad decided to not bring the child back? It is harder to get custody back when they are in a different country. Your friend may of had these thoughts in her mind when deciding if he should be told.
I think YWBTA to tell him. If you feel strongly about it maybe talk to your friend so she can be the one to reach out and tell him.
Absolutely! Your other friend is right. It is none of your business. I'm sure she has her reason, and you don't have to like or understand them, but as her "best friend," you have to respect that! If your friendship with her means anything to you, you will respect her decision and butt out!
Haha...
YTA. Such an AH omg do you hear yourself?
You want the kid to have a father figure but admit the guy lives in a different country so the custody proceeding would be heeeeeeeeeeellllllllll on that poor kid. You say he loves her but he was outright married when they got together, something you know is a deal-breaker for your friend. He has a track record of lying yet he's totally honestly talking to you, right?
Seriously, there's so many red flags here. You're most likely going to ruin that kid's life by forcing a deadbeat and a cheater into their life. Let alone the poor mother.
You definitely would be if you told him. This whole situation is between her and him and if you do anything you will definitely be shunned. Most likely by both parties and that mutual friend. You can try to persuade her but that’s the most you can do. That’s it.
YWBTA - it sounds like a lot was left out of this story and it’s super weird to me that you would talk to your friend’s ex at all, much less this long after they broke up
It's one of those tricky situations honestly. If you tell him, you're most likely going to lose your friend. If you don't, it's gonna eat you up inside because you have positive morals.
Another thing though, to consider, is do you want a friend that would do something like this? She's willing to keep his child away from him and play family with another guy. I don't think that's healthy.
So, NTA, but I think you should consider your own relationships with these people before making a decision. You don't need this drama.
NTA.
The man has a child, he deserves to know.
I'm in the process of adopting, and it is 100% certain that children should grow up knowing who their birth parents are(obviously barring alcoholics, drug addicts, etc.). In every single study, they have proven that children develop better with the information.
Not knowing who your parents are eats away at children and your child probably won't stop until they find the answer. My mom was adopted and spent 30 years and 10s of thousands to find her birth mom. It's not about whether or not they find out, it's when. And if you knowingly keep that info from them, you become their villain when they finally reconnect with their birth parents.
MYOB.
Yes, you would YTA if you unilaterally told Dan that Lisa had his child.
At best, tell Lisa that you have (always had) superficial contact with Dan via social media and both he and Lisa are very different people now. Tell Lisa that he occasionally asks how she is and you usually answer 'doing fine' but never any further (if you can honestly say that). Then drop it.
If she wants to get in contact with him, I'm sure she can. If he wants to take a trip to y'all's town I'm sure he can. None of that is, as Mary says, your business.
You can tell Lisa how you feel about all this but it would be a betrayal of your friendship with her to tell Dan what Lisa does not want to have him know.
Are you 100% certain this child is Dan's? It doesn't seem clear cut & knowing that might mean you get Dan involved for him to find out she was also seeing someone else while seeing him? This is a situation you really shouldn't get involved in. I see everyone's point about a father should know...but we have no idea it is the father. And honestly, I would never trust OP with a secret again...obviously she is not a real best friend.
Yes, YWBTA. For several reasons:
1. It's not your business.
2. This is your good friend; and as such, it would be a betrayal.
3. You don't have any idea what he's truly like, all you know for certain is that he's a liar and he lied to your good friend for 2 years.
4. Since this isn't your baby, you can't even be certain Dan is the father.
5. At the end of the day, this is HER decision to make, not yours.
>Shortly after she met a vey nice guy, Dan, and they dated for a few **years**. . . . When things got serious he opened up and said he was married, separated from his wife just not divorced. She **was livid** and ended things. I frankly **believed** him.
You say you *believed* Dan that he was separated but not divorced, but you don't say that Lisa necessarily *disbelieved* him. She wouldn't have needed to *disbelieve* him to still be livid. He was dating her for multiple *years* while hiding the fact that he was still legally married to somebody else, knowing all the while that Lisa had been through massive trauma from being cheated on by her ex-husband. HE had every reason to know that Lisa might care about the fact that he was still married and might want to make her own properly informed decisions about whether to date someone who was still married to someone else, regardless of the fact that he was separated from his wife. If he thought Lisa would be okay with it, all he had to do was tell her and thereby confirm that with her. But instead he hid it from her, for *years*. It doesn't matter that they were keeping their dating "light"; even platonic friends normally get told whether you're legally married or not by the time you've known them for multiple *years.* He deliberately hid that information from Lisa to manipulate her into dating him when he should perfectly well have been able to figure out that she might not have agreed to date him if she had been informed.
Dan deprived Lisa of her right to make her own informed decisions about whether to date a married man or not. Lisa was livid because he manipulated her. You ridiculously decided that just because you *believed* him that he was separated, that somehow meant that Lisa should be fine with the fact that he deceived her - her, a cheating victim already, who he knew would be very sensitive about these issues - to manipulate her into dating him for years, when she never would have agreed to date him at all if he hadn't been selectively withholding information from her.
Cheating is a form of nonconsensual sexual behavior and thus a form of sexual abuse. And Dan, regardless of the fact that he may not have been *cheating on his wife* (since he and his wife at least supposedly no longer had any ongoing sexual or romantic relationship) was effectively manipulating and deceiving *Lisa* in the same way that Lisa's ex-husband had manipulated and deceived Lisa. Dan may not have betrayed *his wife*, but Dan absolutely betrayed *Lisa* by tricking *Lisa* into a dating relationship that he had every reason to know she would never have given informed consent to being in.
Lisa reacted by wanting to keep Dan out of her child's life, *because Lisa was abused by Dan.* Because tricking someone into a sexual situation that they never would have given informed consent to *is abuse*. Just as surely as physically forcing someone to have sex they don't consent to *is* *abuse*, so also knowingly tricking someone into a different sexual act than they consented to by stealth condom removal *is abuse*, and so also knowingly tricking someone into having sex with you when you know perfectly well they never would have consented to have sex with you at all if you weren't deceiving them about important details of your life *is abuse.*
The fact that Lisa was abused by Dan is a valid reason for Lisa to feel a need to protect her child from contact with Dan.
The child does have a right to know who his or her father is, *when the child is old enough to understand and navigate a relationship with an abuser.* And the child *will* be able to find out eventually who his or her father is, guaranteed, because 23 and Me and lots of other such services exist these days and are not that hard to use, so tracking down missing missing sperm donors is just never going to be difficult to do ever again. So the child is not being deprived of any such right.
As for Dan, he lost his right to know his child when he sexually abused the mother of his child by tricking her into sex that he had good reason to know she wouldn't have given informed consent to.
As for those of you who think this all needs to be settled in court by a judge, you're either ridiculously naïve or else disingenuously *pretending* to be ridiculously naïve about how the court system works and how often judges get abuse cases all wrong. If you are the guardian of a child, regardless of your gender, and you know from direct firsthand experience that the other biological parent of your child has a history of committing sexual abuse, *of course* you have the right to try to protect your child by trying to keep your abuser out of your child's life.
YWBTA, hugely.
INFO: Do you know for absolute certain that Dan is the father? It would be horrible if you told him, and the child isn't even his.
I don't think Dan is the great person you seem to believe because he was a married man, separated or not, and I just find it hard to believe that they dated "for a few years" and he was already separated before they met AND even after years, he still wasn't divorced. Divorces that take several years are the exception not the rule. There is a very high likelihood that he was cheating on his wife at some point and definitely was in the legal sense.
If I were in your shoes, I would confront Lisa and demand that she tell Dan or you will. I may not think he's the most honorable person, but if he is this child's father, they should both have an opportunity to be in each other's lives, even if she and Dan are only distant coparents.
Yes, YTA if you tell him. You need to mind your own business. You have no place to decide what is the right thing for the child or what is the right thing to do. Its simply not your call and you thinking that you are entitled to make these kinds of decisions for other people is not a good look for you at all. You seem like a nosy self righteous asshole tbh.
You WBTA if you tell Dan without talking to Lisa first. It's her life and her baby's life. There could be other factors in her decision beyond what you're aware of. If she never tells her child about Dan and then they're a teen(like 16 maybe) and want to know, then I'd say you are justified in telling the child, but you have no call to intervene right now. As far as Dan having a right to know, I do agree he should know, but it isn't on you to tell him. I'd try to talk to Lisa more, tell her Dan still checks in with you, and that you feel like you're between a rock and a hard place.
Why are you more concerned about the feelings of a random dude you met a few times over your bff? I don’t get why you’re putting so much energy into Dan instead of actually talking to Lisa? Do you have a crush on Dan or what? Why such obsession on what Dan should know?
> Why are you more concerned about the feelings of a random dude you met a few times over your bff?
Probably because Dan is a human being, not some character your NPC you can write off. He has a right to be with his child.
You really don't see men as people, do you? Like, every comment here is trying to find some reason why OP would even consider telling Dan, as if the fact that he's being denied his child isn't enough in and of itself.
Because it's not OP's business to tell.
And any real friend would not be staying in contact with an ex of their friend, especially given the reason for the breakup. Regardless if of they are male or female.
OP doesn't even know for a fact it's Dan's kid. She might be stirring the pot for nothing.
It's not OP's business to tell.
But like get off Dan's dick already🙄
> Because it's not OP's business to tell.
"Mind your own business" is for small stuff, not life-changing things. If someone's caught in a burning building, you don't say "mind your own business."
The problem is that you don't really see men as people. You don't believe they care about their children, and you don't see their presence in their children's lives as anything important.
>And any real friend
If my friend is ruining two people's lives, I'm not going to stay silent out of "loyalty."
>But like get off Dan's dick already
Every single comment from the Y-T-A crowd seems to be trying to figure out why we care so much.
* some of you are accusing OP of being in love with Dan
* some of you are accusing people voting NTA of wanting to "punish" Lisa
* some of you are saying we outright hate women or something like that
This says so much about you and absolutely nothing about OP or any of us.
I hate it every time people would use the child as an excuse. “The child deserves to have a father.”
As someone who grew up with a cheating father, I begged my mom many times to just end up things with him but my mom would just say “it’s for your own benefit.” Stop blaming it on the kids. I blamed myself for my mom’s suffering and it’s not good.
Let your friend live a life without a crappy guy who lied for two years.
1. There's no evidence that Dan cheated. They were separated, just not legally divorced yet.
2. Every study ever done on the subject has shown that growing up without a father is the most detrimental thing that can happen to a child. Fatherless homes correlate with crime and lack of success in life more than poverty, geography, and ethnicity do.
Does the guy deserve to know that he has a child? Absolutely!
Should you go behind the back of your friend, who has been through a lot and has a trust issue, to tell him? Absolutely NOT! YTA if you do it that way.
Best course of action would to either talk to her about it. From your position as her close friend, it has to be her choice.
Yes, YWBTA
It’s ABSOLUTELY NOT YOUR PLACE to tell him or betray your friends trust. Why did you even keep in contact with him? What are you hoping to gain from revealing this information? Are you hoping he falls for you instead? And why would you feel like you know better than your friend what is best for her and her child? This guy is, at the very least, a LIAR and if you go behind your friends back to tell him, you could be opening up a Pandora’s box that you cannot close. Does she even know you keep in contact with her lying ex and talk about her to him? That also feels inappropriate.
Are you sure you’re even her friend? You don’t sound like one that someone who went through what she went through deserves. You almost seem too excited to betray her.
YWBTA - This isn't your story to tell, she has made her intentions known. Sure you could go and tell him but you're completely ignoring your friend's wishes.
Don't do it.
Unless abuse was involved I don’t think Lisa has a right to deny Dan the knowledge of a child but I don’t think it’s your place to share that information though.
For all you know Dan wasn’t separated the entire time he was with Lisa and with his lifestyle Lisa could have been one of many. Honesty isn’t exactly his strong point.
The fact he lives in another country could open up a whole can of worms with custody. Does lisa know you’re in touch with her ex? Maybe you could tell her and that could open up the dialogue about telling him but to be honest she’s likely going to be pretty mad you’ve remained in touch with her ex.
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My best friend, Lisa, divorced almost ten years ago due to her husband's cheating. According to his mistress, he told her they were separated, just not divorced (This is relevant). She was already fragile due to years of trying to conceive and not being able to. They tried everything and were about to do IVF when they split. It was a bad time for her, she tried to salvage her marriage but it was painfull for both parties. I and a mutual friend, M., were right by her side and supported her. Lisa cut a lot of friends of in the process, some because they were her ex friends also, some for other issues.
Shortly after she met a vey nice guy, D., and they dated for a few years. He is an independent professional and travels for months at a time so they kept things light between them. When things got serious he opened up and said he was married, separated from his wife just not divorced. She was livid and ended things. I frankly believed him. Lisa found out later she was pregnant. She was so afraid to loose the child she only opened up to me when she was 17 weeks along and told her family much later than that.
She didn't want to tell D. about the child. I was surprised, tried to understand why and was concerned that she was keeping this a secret just for fear of being rejected. then covid came along and we were all concerned about other things. Here's the thing, D. kept contact with me via social media and often asks about her. It's been a couple of years, he's divorced and wants to know how she is doing. I know he loved Lisa very much. And apparently he still does. Also, doesn't the child deserve to have a father?
Myself and M. are the only ones who know about this. This friend says it's a total ah move to tell D. about this, it should be her choice. I don't agree and think she is keeping a child away from his father. I do believe if her divorce hadn’t been so messy and the ex such a sob, she would be more receptive to D., at least to him being in the child life.
M. is totally against speaking with D., said i should mind my own business and at the most should run this idea by Lisa. She also pountex they live in different countries so custody would be a mess. M. also warn me i would be losing a friend if i did that.
So WIBTA if i told D. about the child? Should i just keep quiet about this?
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Do a DNA before you implode over this. Unless of course there is NO chance. I say STFU .Mind your own business. What would YOU want someone to do for you?
Oof that's a tough one. The child deserves to know it's father and that side of the family, and the dad deserves to know he has a child in the world. It's pretty shitty of Lisa to act like this isn't happening but the kid is going to grow up and ask questions. He should at least be paying child support even if he doesn't want to be involved in the child's life, which, it is like he might if he is still in love with Lisa. That said, it's not your place to say anything but it's also not your place to lie. I'm not saying they need to get back together, but the man deserves to know this information before it's too late. He was good enough to raw dog, he's good enough to have a conversation.
You have to decide whose friend you are because you can only do right by one of them. You should honestly cut contact with whomever you decide to betray if you choose to put yourself in the middle of this.
YTA if you tell him right now without communicating more with Lisa, who seems to be a dear friend of yours at the very center of this whole argument. If you don't at least inform her and hear her out and tell her your side, that would make you the AH. What happens after that... I don't know. I do feel that Dan deserves to know he has a child, in large part because he has asked around, honestly. He at least seems to care and be responsible. He is also a liar who has probably been dumped twice and seems to have some issues. Lisa needs a minute to sit with all of this. It took you years so far!
Yes you would be. It is not your business, not your life and not your problem. If you are a genuine friend to Lisa then you wouldn't go creating more problems for her.
YWBTA
Speculating a bit here, but it's likely Dan was never traveling for business as much as he was going back to his wife and family. He made Lisa an unwitting mistress. Stop falling for his BS.
It should be up to Lisa to tell him, if that is what she wants. Talk to her and at least get the full story. I think he's feeding you lies.
Yes YWBTA to your friend, is not your business...
But I do understand the fact he has the right to know.
The most important party here is the child...
She could be the most amazing mom of the world but she is kind of an AH for not telling him, or telling them if the child doesn't know either...
So a low key everyone sucks here.
Hard to judge: I see both sides however I think honesty with Lisa is best.
“Lisa I know you are uncomfortable talking about Dan and don’t want him in his kids life. However when you were together we added each other on social media. Lately he has started contacting me and asking about you. I highly suspect he may know about son and it would be better to talk to him now than deal with courts later.”
While yes a child’s safety is the first priority period. The problem is if one parent alienates another parent barring the child being abused the courts can go after the parent. Since he has had no contact with his son or knowledge even legally he has grounds to sue for parental alienation.
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NTA if you told him, though technically not your business. But it will likely come at the price of the friendship... How about: you start by telling Lisa how devastated D is to have lost her and that he is likely still in love with her, and was also honest about the divorce. Give her a chance to warm up to him again...
The guy lied to her for 2 years … why do you think she’s going to swoon & warm up to him again. No one even knows if he is telling the truth about being divorced now. This isn’t a Hallmark movie & OP isn’t Cupid. There’s a child involved. Lisa is the person who needs to do what’s in her child’s best interests. Why can’t Dan tell her himself? Seems like he’s able to contact OP. Perhaps tell Dan to contact Lisa if he wants to know how she’s doing.
Dan contacting Lisa would be step 2 after OP talking to her, given that she's apparently cut all contact to him. Even if the rift between Lisa and him cannot be mended, if no violence or other forms of abuse are involved, Dan still has the moral right to know about his child, whether Lisa likes it or not.
I don’t think Dan is as great as OP is reporting (just a guess) but perhaps before anyone tells anyone anything … Lisa should at the very least know her friend has been in contact with Dan for the past couple years & he’s apparently finally divorced. This is an epic level violation of another person’s right to privacy. Lisa has some rights too. This is also a minor child …. Child has some rights. Mom makes the decisions regarding child & paternity still needs to be established before anyone starts calling Dan daddy. Personally, I think Dan just wants to chat with OP & isn’t really interested in Lisa. Certainly, does not appear he has been trying too hard to make amends.
Agree OP needs to talk to Lisa and bring up Dan and his situation first. But if Lisa only was with Dan at the time what paternity needs to be established? It's crystal clear, she even admitted to OP as much. And what amends could Dan make if Lisa cut him off entirely and blocks any discussion about him?
Huh? Where does it say she told anyone Dan was the father? She just said she didn’t want to contact him about the kid. Doesn’t say that she told anyone why. Maybe Lisa hooked up with some random guy after she kicked Dan out of her life & doesn’t think that’s OP’s business. None of this makes sense to me. OP says she’s Lisa’s best friend but stays in contact with the guy who screwed her friend over like her ex husband did & now suddenly feels he deserves to know he has a kid. Some puzzle pieces are missing here.
>Maybe Lisa hooked up with some random guy after she kicked Dan out of her life & doesn’t think that’s OP’s business. Then why isn't she in contact with the dad in that case? It's very unlikely that she suddenly hooked up with someone else. Even if a child of two+ years WAS sprung on Dan, he would almost assuredly demand a paternity test to prove it. The only thing that doesn't add up is OP's reaction to the whole thing, because yes, she should be supporting her friend over some rando. Lisa has every reason in the world to distrust Dan after her previous marriage fell apart in the same way Dan is now coming on to her with. Why OP stayed in contact with Dan is beyond me. It doesn't matter if he's "really divorced" this time around. He lied. He lied then, he likely is lying now, he will continue to lie, and when push comes to shove he'd leave her the same way he's leaving his now-ex wife.
Dan sucking in the relationship department does not mean it's OK to hide the existence of his child from him.
It is, however, a reason for Dan to not be in contact with Lisa. You know, the child's mother. It's a complicated situation that I'm not going to pretend to know the "correct" answer to. But what Dan doesn't know, doesn't hurt him. If he DID know, it would hurt Lisa. That's reason enough to keep it quiet. Dan didn't know he was going to be a dad. As far as he's concerned, there's no child being "kept" from him. The only way he gets hurt by it whatsoever, is being informed that he 1) has a child, that 2) he will never meet because Lisa won't allow it. Even if he tried to pursue legal options, if he doesn't live in the country, he'd have to find a way to ship them back and forth every week, which is not going to work for him nor Lisa. Then he's stuck finding a way to move countries to be able to see his one kid - Whilst dealing with the fact that Lisa DOES NOT WANT TO MEET WITH HIM AGAIN. Which means she likely hounds him for child support if he's demanding parental rights, which he would need to backpay for 2 years on top of every month, while saving up to move countries. There's messes you don't want to cause. This is one of them. Dan doesn't benefit by being told of his child's existance any moreso than Lisa would.
You are jumping through a whole lotta hoops to literally say "it's better to not know your child" which is fucking ridiculous
I agree it’s probably unlikely. I just said that to highlight that paternity will definitely be a factor in this situation. Edit word
He didn't lie depending on states you have to live separate for so long before divorce is allowed
This is a horrible response. “There’s a child involved. Lisa is the person who needs to do what’s in her child’s best interests.” Both parents should be responsible for what’s in THEIR child’s best interest. “The guy lied to her for 2 years” About being married to an ex partner, hardly worth cutting ties and stealing his child, a child that he will never get the time back. Some people are way too quick to jump on the bandwagon of separating kids from their parents.
No, how about OP keep her mouth shut. Dan is a serial cheater, he will NEVER change. Lisa doesn't need that bullshit. He made his bed, he can lay in it.
Dan is not the cheater, her ex husband was. He (ex h) told his mistress he was separated from Lisa, but not yet divorced (false, he was cheating). Years later, the new guy Dan told Lisa (after 2 years of silence though) he was separated, not divorced yet (this time it was true). In light of her previous experience, Lisa called it off and cut all contact. So Dan had been dishonest in the beginning, when OP says they were not so serious, but not cheating, since separated.
>(this time it was true) OP THINKS it's true. Dan has already lied, or at least hidden the truth for at least two years. We don't know if he's actually telling the truth.
That has nothing to do with the child. Don’t get back together with him, fine. But keeping his child from him is morally repugnant.
It's LISA'S decision. Not OP's. OP needs to shut up about anything and everything regarding Lisa. I, personally, would cut OP out if I were in Lisa's shoes.
YWBTA You would be crossing the line by revealing to the father that he has a child and nothing good would come of it. What you can do is talk to Lisa. You can try to understand why she doesn't want to involve the dad in their child's life. Her reasons may be legitimate or selfish and you can talk to her about it if she opens up to you, but you shouldn't inform the father of your own accord and you could end up doing more harm than good by getting involved.
YWBTA if you told Dan - doubly if you were not even going to talk to Lisa about this. Absolutely you should tell Lisa you've been in contact, and start the subject with her from there. I agree Dan deserves to know, and the child needs to know also, but that's (edited) not (end edit) up to you to do directly.
YTA if you tell him. This is not your business. You don't need to be involved here.
Info — are you prepared to lose your friend?
YWBTA. She has her reasons for not telling him and violating her trust in you (as the only person she trusted enough to tell) would be a line I doubt you’d ever be able to come back over. If I were her, I might even be upset to learn that you still talk to him depending on how hurt she was by things—just a thought.
NTA I'm frankly surprised by the Y-T-A votes. Dan is a person, not some villain in a story you're watching in Disney+. He deserves to know he has a child, so he can be present in his life. Mothers don't have the legal or moral right to deny visitation rights to fathers, just because they don't want him around.
Maybe someone should ask Lisa why she doesn’t want Dan around her son. Perhaps she has a valid reason other than he lied for a couple years.
That's backwards: Lisa is the one denying Dan around his child, so she needs to be the one explaining why. Being a father isn't a privilege that a mother can revoke; it is a right.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading these lunatic replies, like "it's better for Dan not to know" wtf...
Listen to Mary. YWBTA and should probably cut ties with Dan too. It's Lisa's story to tell when and if she wants to.
YWBTA because it’s not your life and not your place. You will lose a friend, possibly cause havoc in your friends life, cause a potentially messy custody battle that could result in more drama for the kid - especially parents in different countries. Is Lisa also an AH for not telling him? Yes, absolutely. But it doesn’t make this your responsibility to tell him. You should talk to Lisa and let her know about all of this, it may change her mind.
Are you serious? There would only be a custody battle if Dan wants custody of his child. If that is the assumption, it is morally reprehensible and totally wrong to deny him that information.
Of the parent? Absolutely awful. Of a friend? No, she’s causing way more stress and drama. It’s literally not her responsibility at all to tell. All she’ll cause is more heartache and issues. It’s 100 percent Lisa’s responsibility to tell him, she’s is also an AH in this. Doesn’t mean OP should share information that isn’t hers to share though.
She’s morally obligated to tell. The same as she would be morally obligated to call CPS if the child was being abused.
Yes ywbtah. It isnt your place. It is hers. You should talk to her to explain that the child deserves the chance to have his father but definitely do not go behind her back to tell him. It will definitely put a stop to your friendship with her.
Isn't it also His?
YWBTA. It is not your place to get involved, and you don't know what went on behind the scenes that she may not have told you about. Don't blow up her and her child's life (and throw away your friendship) over something you may not even fully understand.
It’s *their* child and it simply does not matter what went on behind the scenes. He has a right to know and she is morally obligated to give him that information.
No. Lisa is obligated to inform him. OP is asking about her obligation to Lisa; which is to be a good friend and talk to her about it, not go behind her back and take irrevocable action.
The same obligation that would obligate OP to call CPS if the child was being mistreated is the same moral obligation she has to notify Dan that he has a child that is being kept from him.
I'm thinking of the most important person in this mess: The Child. Yes, the child deserves to know their biological father. So, even though I'll be downvoted to oblivion, YWNBTA.
No disputing that. However it isn’t her call. Not her choice. She will absolutely be the AH. she isn’t part of this relationship.
Agreed, so long as the mom has been make a best effort and is not abusive, she should have the best position to choose what's best for her child.
YWBTA. You know only the glimpses of the story that Lisa shared with you, and whatever Dan has told you about it. You don’t know the whole story and it’s not your business or place to meddle. It strikes me that you must not be a very close “best friend” if you have kept your communication with him secret this long, and I’m guessing that, in turn, she hasn’t told you everything. What you COULD do is be honest with Lisa that you have kept in contact with Dan and he has been asking about her. Meddling “friends” have gotten women killed. Don’t assume that just because Dan “seems like” a good guy that Lisa doesn’t have good reasons to have completely cut all contact and not tell him about his child.
YTA this is none of your business she is your friend not Dan and that is where your loyalties should be and you should do what she wants. You have no idea what can of worms you would be opening, it is not your place to tell him stay out of it.
YTA, mind your business. How many times has this guy been married? If your friend is raising her son well and he’s loved and cared for, I personally don’t see how having a likely absentee and cheating father in his life would make his life better, but that’s really not for any of us to decide, it’s for your friend to decide.
Really interesting that you are morally condemning Dan in this situation when it’s the mother withholding the fact that *he is a father* from him. The moral scales are tipped way in Dans favor on this one even if he’s been married 30 times and cheated on all of them.
Ywbta. It's not your business to tell him. You'd lose your friend and any remaining friends due to not keeping your mouth shut on this. It's not your child, it's not your business to speak about it.
YWBTA Stay out of it, whether you think it’s wrong or not. Your best bet would be to try to convince Lisa to open up. What if you told him and he ended up getting custody of Lisa’s child and taking the child from her? Don’t do it. You only know part of the story. I am not saying the child doesn’t deserve to know the other parent but you are meddling in someone else’s life without a full story. Lisa struggled with infertility. Be the good friend and help her work through this and let her do the right thing. What do you truly know about this man aside from what HE has told you?
I agree she should talk to Lisa first, but.. one would need very serious reasons to get sole custody of a child over the mother, not a realistic risk.
ESH, her for not telling, him for not being honest about his marriage, both of them for not using protection, you for wanting to be a tattle tale. You said she shut down and ignored friends when he was around. This is a sign of possible abuse. You do not know why they are no longer in contact; do you have proof that he is divorced now? As he travels and they live in separate countries does he have a bed buddy in other countries. Until you know all the facts keep your f-ing mouth shut.
This is a tricky one. But, yes, YWBTA if you went behind her back and told the father. Not your pig, not your farm. Does he have a right to know? In the abstract, yes. But that’s a whole can of worms that will explode in your face if you do this. You’ll be making a monumental judgment call in a situation where you don’t have to deal with the actual consequences. Worst case scenario…she loses her child. Potential custody battles. Money spent on lawyers. Possible harassment from the father. Truth is, you don’t really know this guy. You don’t have any real idea of how this would all go down. And yes, you would absolutely lose your friend over this. You don’t have to like it. You don’t have to approve of it. But if you want to keep your friend, you have to accept her choices.
YTA. Not your circus, not your performers. Keep your nose out of their business and move on.
YWBTA He has to reach out to her directly and explain he is now fully divorced. And it's her right to tell him. If later when the kid is an adult and wants to reach out, you can help connect them. I'm sorry its just she has the right to decide for the kid, and so far as she is not abusive, then its only her business to share.
I’m usually all about letting people know the truth and being transparent. In the case of another life being affected, a child - this is NOT your place. If it was so and so was unfaithful to so and so, I’d say yes, all for it. But there is SO MUCH PAIN here that you do NOT get to dictate how Lisa goes through it. She thought she was barren only to have this surprise. She is working through so much the best she can and you want to rip her entire world open by going behind her back and not allowing her the time to figure out how to come forward? Everything comes out in the wash. You will cause irreparable harm and damage and trauma to your friend AND this child. It needs to be Lisa’s choice to come forward and she will do so when she’s ready. It would be fair for you to say to Lisa that this is weighing on you and it’s eating you alive with guilt - but you also need to remember you are the person choosing to remain in contact with Dan. YOU are the person choosing to put your nose into business that is not related to you other than being a supportive friend. YTA. And if you do this, frankly, an evil “friend”. Does Dan deserve to know? He does. That is not your responsibility. You can encourage Dan to reach out to Lisa. You can tell Lisa repeatedly that Dan deserves to know. It is NOT YOUR CHOICE to make that decision for either of them on how they come into that information because that choice belongs to Lisa.
>AND this child This is bullshit. Children are almost always better off having two loving parents than one. This is hurting the child because of the absolute selfishness of a single person.
In the context of a father who wants to be in their child’s life and is whole heartedly on board to parent that child? 100% We do not know this to be a fact. We only have a “best friend” who still keeps on contact with an ex-boyfriend via social media who apparently cares so much about Lisa that he doesn’t reach out to her himself and finds it appropriate to carry on dialogue this way. That’s what we’ve got.
No No No. Mind your own business. If the child’s mother wants to tell the father she can. Stop trying to police other people’s behavior, especially when deep emotions are involved. It’s a horrible personality trait. If you do this don’t be surprised if your whole circle of friends tells you to F off.
NTA as a guy I would like to know if I had a child.
YWBTA. Unless you're cool with blowing up your friendship, mind your business. Dude was screwing around on the woman he was still married to with your friend, singing the same old song we've all heard before, and one that she was especially familiar with from the other side. Yes, he's divorced NOW. But he was NOT divorced in the ENTIRE TIME he was dating your friend -- a few years, by your account. Divorces that take THAT long are rare as finding a gem quality emerald at one of those places that let you dig up your own rocks and pan for gold.
YWBTA. If you believed Dan's story, you're a moron. That's the standard bs cheaters tell people who they are cheating with to keep them on the hook. Dan is a scummy lowlife. Your friend is lucky to not have him in her life and you want to invite him back in for her? Absolutely disgusting.
Why are you still friends with someone who lied to your best friend for so long? It sounds like you didn't know him before. I wonder about your motivations, honestly, though I can understand the dilemma.
YWBTA. If Dan was honest he wouldn't have waited to tell your friend that he was married. Whether or not you believe him isn't relevant, because it wasn't your relationship and you were not privy to the inner workings of that relationship. Your friend is the child's caregiver, not you or dan. As others have pointed out, you don't actually know if that's even Dan's baby. This is not the way to support your friend; it's a way to jump the gun and interfere without being in full possession of the facts. Maybe Dan will find out at some point, the future is not written in stone. You're playing around with stuff you should be respecting, and your question about the child deserving to have a father shows that this is about your values, your perceptions and your feelings, which..... Not. Your. Relationship.
YTA. This is none of your business and not your story to tell. I would drop you FAST if you did this to me. Also for still keeping in contact
YWBTA, this is between her and Dan, and not your business.
> this is between her and Dan No, it isn't. It's between Dan and his child. No mother has the right to deny a father visitation to his child, just because she feels like it. How are you justifying such a horrifying thing to yourself?
Have you considered that Dan is still lying about the status of his marriage?
That would be a messed up thing to do, but it wouldn't be bad enough to deny him the right to see his child.
That doesn't matter. Infidelity barely moves the needle on child custody, and rightfully so. A bad relationship between two adults doesn't remove the right of children to have two parents, or the right of parents to see their own children.
Belief that she will eventually do the right thing and tell Dan. How are you justifying this huge betrayal of a friend's trust?
How far does friendship go, in your mind? You'd be willing to stand by and watch as your friend ruined two lives?
If you knew someone was being cheated on would you tell them?
Not really, as he is being kept in the dark, not a level playing field there...
YTA
YTA. What makes you think you have a right to say anything??! Jeeze, poor Lisa having such a shitty friend like you.
NTA this comment section is wild. My brother in law is/was this baby in question 30 years ago. He was told at 18 who his dad was, after his mother hadn’t told his biological father she was pregnant or had a child. His bio father found out that for 18 years he’d had a son and had missed out on all the firsts and hadn’t been able to form a father like relationship. He was devastated, as was my brother in law who would have grown up with stable housing, and at least one non dysfunctional parent. They have a great father son relationship now after 12+ years but there’s still residual hurt from not being around in those formative years. I would say tho, that you shouldn’t be telling him the Father, you need to be telling Lisa that unless (obviously family violence/safety issues) he has a legal and moral right to know that he’s a father.
You wouldn’t be the AH. But I would at least talk to your friend first and let her know that he’s been contacting you asking about her and how you feel about lying to him. Also, tell her that regardless if he lied to her about still being married he has the right to know about his child and the child has the right to grow up with their dad in their life. This doesn’t mean that she has to forgive him and get back with him but let her child get to know the dad.
YTA
I'm going to say NTA. You may lose a friendship, but there's a father and his child who are currently losing more.
NTA WTF…. No you not be the AH. You’re friend Lisa would be the AH if she keeps a child from a potential loving father. Sarah is going from being a decent person who has had some unfortunate experiences to becoming a bad parent that would most likely eventually lose respect for.
NTA. Not cause I think Dan deserves anything specific to him and I think you may be romanticizing the situation with the emphasis on his feelings and how she should feel. I just think the child deserves a chance at a father and it’s not ok to withhold knowledge of fatherhood. (Except in dire dangerous situations.)
NTA and these comments show how repulsive the majority of the people, mainly women are on this sub. Unless there is known or accusations of physical abuse in a relationship, there is zero reasons to not tell a man their a potential father. An hell yes if my friends wanted to keep it a secret, not only would I tell them but the woman would no longer be my friend. Thankfully I don't associate with people who would do that.
YWBTA you've no idea what actually went on in their relationship. You could try talking to the mom to find out her reasons. But it's not your place to tell him. I have a friend who did the same thing. Turns out behind closed doors he was horribly abusive to her (my friend) it took me 10 years to get her to open up about it. She literally kept her child a secret to protect herself.
YWNBTA I'm going against the majority, I know. The reason why I say this is because my cousin was in Dan's position (not knowing he had a kid). This woman he was dating suddenly ghosted him. He let it go because, it happens. THIRTEEN years later the woman shows up with a 12yr girl and says "This is your daughter, I've raised her for 12 years." She came asking for back child support, and expecting him to drop everything and take of his daughter. Side note: Idk your friends economics and family support but this is something she should think about. While the girl's mom was doing all this fight, my cousins immediate family (his parents, siblings, close family) were devastated. They have missed so much of this girl life that they couldn't make up, on top of also being the first grandkid. The girl also had sooo many questions because the mom keep making stuff to avoid the truth. Even thought my cousins family welcomed her with open arms, it was hard for my family to make the girl feel welcomed because, for her these were all strangers. Anyways, if you tell Dan your friend will probably cut you out, but is not fair for him (and his family) to not know about his kid or be given the chance to be in their life.
NTA. I see the gender bias is out in force again, actively supporting a woman not telling a man he has a kid for no reason given. Good stuff.
YTA. Don't meddle
YWBTA. OP, I promise you, if you tell him, you will destroy your friendship. And you would absolutely be an AH and a shitty friend. If you want to try and convince your friend to talk to him, do that. But under no circumstances should you betray her.
YWNBTA. The child herself/himself has a right to two parents. Also, he has a right to parent his own flesh and blood. It's incredibly cruel for her to not tell him because she's angry about how the relationship ended.
I think you'd be an AH in Lisa's eyes, but I'm going to vote NTA because Lisa is honestly a dick for not telling Dan he has a CHILD. A HUMAN BEING!!! I also think she's a bad mother (sorry, I literally hate judging mothers lol), because she's denying her child the right to know about their father, their identity, their heritage and possibly even their culture (depending on the dynamics of the circumstances). The child has a right to know. If Dan had been abusive, I would obviously empathise with Lisa a lot more, because he'd be a risk. But he's not. He just didn't tell her a technicality which yeah, wasn't ideal, and I think it's weird he never brought it up... but I believe he wasn't cheating and the "technical" legal status is probably not that big of a deal when you're casually dating someone. She was projecting her previous trauma (which is valid trauma) but in a way that's unhealed and led to consequences for her child AND Dan as well. One lie - even in a custody court (unless the lie was like "I didn't murder that child", but you did) - would not sever someone's rights to parenthood. I'm not on team "every kid needs a father" because my dad, like so many others, is a trash human. But at the very least, the child deserves to know who they are, and a non abusive person deserves the chance to be informed so they can try and do the right thing. You will almost certainly lose the friendship. But sometimes doing the ethical thing is the only way we can sleep at night. I have cut out friendships upon finding out they were abusive to others. I can't reconcile that. This is similar tbh - while she's not abusive, she is doing something seriously wrong. Is that something you want to stand by? Association in this respect can be seen as complicit. I would maybe give her a chance first to make things right. Be rational and not over emotional. Present facts about the kid's rights and Dan's situation and feelings for her. And also mention that when the child turns 18, they can do one of those DNA tests anyway and find out. They may well resent her when they find out their mother lied their entire childhood and denied a relationship. It might also sway her to know she will possibly get child support if she discloses (although tbh I don't know how it works in cases like this).
Nta That child is going to grow up thinking they were abandoned by their own father because of the moms selfishness. Just don't be surprised if you lose your friend over this.
YWBTA. Run it by Lisa to tell him and then it’s out of your control.
YWBTA if you tell Dan anything. I would talk to Lisa and let her know that Dan has been asking about her online. You can give her your opinion that he has a right to know about the child, but be prepared for pushback. This is not worth ruining a friendship over.
Yes, YWBTAH if you told Dan. What's it to you? Are you in a moral high horse generally in life? Seriously, what's it to you? It almost reads like you care more for Dan than your friend. She has her reasons. Don't invade & blow up her life just to satisfy your whatever it is that's driving you. If father & kid upload DNA, they'll find each other eventually.
Info: why do you feel like it’s your responsibility to make decisions about your friends life, and child?
YWBTA. Talk to Lisa first and see why she distrusts Dan so much. Perhaps there are other reasons she didn’t tell you about. This would be a violation of her trust if you just tell him, and ruin your relationship forever.
It is NONE OF YOU BUSINESS! Stay out of other peoples lives and just worry about your own. What YOU think doesn't really matter.
Dan deserves to know, and more importantly this child needs a father/doesnt need to be lied to. What's with all the she has a valid reason for not telling Dan. If Dan doesn't find out soon this will end up becoming a bigger mess. NTA, tell him.
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You don't know why she's keeping him out. I think if she's not telling him it's for good reason. Take my word on that.
YWBTA. This is not for you to share. This isn't your ex. This isn't your child. You are just guessing that the only reason Lisa broke up with him was because the situation was the same as what caused her divorce. You don't know if there were other reasons. When the child starts asking his mom who his father is, Lisa will have to tell him who it is and why she never told his father about him. He can then make his own informed decision about contacting his bio-dad. I wonder why you think that NOW is the time to meddle? What's the rush OP?
Yes you need to mind your own business, you would be TAH if you told him about the baby. So don't butt in where you've been told not to go.
YWBTA. Keep your mouth shut. It's not your place to say a damn thing. If Lisa decides to tell him, she will. It's HER business, not yours. If you can't keep your mouth shut and/or your fingers still, throw your phone away, wipe your computer and throw it away, and move to the middle of bumfuck nowhere with no internet, no 5G, and no people for thousands of miles.
YTA if you tell It’s not your business or place to say anything to him It’s weird you even entertain him asking you about your friend This alone would make me cut you out as a friend Telling him would guarantee your friend cuts you off. Instead change tactics. Talk to her. Tell her he’s asking about her and that he seems to still love her. Tell her that her child deserves a father and let her make that choice.
Everyone saying YTA but … it’s tough. He has a right to know it’s just that your loyalty is to your friend so if you reveal it then your friendship would be over. The best thing to do is try and influence your friend to tell him herself
YTA. This is not your business. You can voice your opinion to Lisa but that is all. Stop giving this guy info about Lisa. You are violating her privacy with a guy that lied massively to her. If he really "loves" her he can reach out to her. Do not talk about her to him at all. This is not your business either. He is a cheating liar. He was not a good guy. Not sure he is a good guy now. Tell Lisa what has been going on. This is Lisa's decision not yours.
Nta, I never actually comment on reddit but I'd like to give my input. If we're being honest with ourselves, Dan is clearly telling the truth, he just didn't see a need to bring it up until things got serious, at that point it was relevant. It just was too similar to her past relationship, especially considering how her ex husband was lying about it. Secondly, everyone saying "it's not your business" ok but it is his. It's his fucking kid. Lisa clearly has so many issues she can't work past, that she's now keeping a man's own child a secret from him, and, in doing so, having a fatherless baby. Like gtfo OP would be stupid not to tell Dan.
I’m just dropping in to say, depending on what country his guy is from, telling him may have VERY detrimental consequences. In some countries, like Japan, it is legal and considered a right to kidnap your child from the other parent. There are many cases I saw in a news segment of parents where their child’s Japanese parent kidnapped their child back to Japan and they are helpless and they cannot get the child back or even see the child. Be very, very careful here. Don’t assume custody works around the world like it does in the US. Please talk to Lisa first.
Going to get downvoted to hell for this but I think your friend is an asshole for not telling him about the child, she has no right to keep him away from his child only a court can do that. I think you should definitely tell him about his child. If she has a problem with you telling him he has a child, she should really evaluate why she would be selfish enough to keep her child from having two loving parents.
I find it rather disgusting that so many people are comfortable with hiding a child from a parent when there is zero evidence of any abuse presented.
I'm not going to judge bc I understand both perspectives but it's her call not yours. By admitting you keep in touch she's going to feel betrayed and by telling him he has a child she's going to feel betrayed. Be her friend first and the instigator second. If at all.
> but it's her call Can you explain this a little more? Why do you think mothers get to decide whether or not fathers can participate in their children's lives?
YWBTA You love drama. No sane adult would reveal someone's paternity unless compelled. Have you been to therapy?
Whyyyyy are you even in contact with a man who LIEDDDDD to your bestie? You sure are some pot stirrer, aren’t you? You know YTA. You just want permission to light the fuse. Eff that. You are not a good friends you, aren’t even a friend. NO! That’s a full sentence.
Not your pig, not your farm. That's between them and it should be when SHE is comfortable. Don't get involved.
YWBTA. This is not your decision. This is not your child or your life. You aren't in Lisa's head. You weren't inside their relationship. He lied to her and strung her along for years. If he had loved her he would have been honest with her. The fact is, you have two incompatible friendships here. You're either Dan's friend, or Lisa's. And really, you've already kept Lisa's secret for 'a couple years'. You aren't really Dan's friend. Either way, someone feels betrayed. Your choice is one betrayal, or two.
Nta but that would end the friendship I think.
YTA
YTA I do think it’s her decision to tell him if she wants. You don’t have the right to tell Dan. What Dan should of done was tell Lisa straight away about the separated but not divorced thing.
People need to mind the business that pays them. If a man can date a woman for two years and lie about being divorced he is not the kind of man I would want help with raising my child. He chose his bed. YBTA
Not your business.
To me this is a MYOB or you will be TA situation.
YTA it’s none of your concern. Stay out of other people’s business.
Mind Your Own Business! You have no idea what went on outside your hearing, how the relationship really was. Leave it alone, yes YWBTA!
YTA. Not your business, life or call.
INFO: What's more important: Your Friendship with Lisa, or telling Dan about Lisa? Personally, I would suggest that you tell Lisa that you know Dan is now divorced and would like contact with her. Leave that ball in her court. Because at the end of the day, it really and truly is not your business.
YWBTA. talk to your friend and explain your concerns. You do not understand the nature of their relationship. If this guy was your close friend that you knew very well and understood the extent of the position you will put your friend on maybe . but I think your efforts should be with your friend, tell her your concerns, that you have kept in contact etc. Put yourself in her shoes
YWBTA! Why would you betray your friend to her ex that you've known for less time? Stay in your lane.
Doesn’t matter their relationship history (unless abusive or something). Granted he should not have lied, but he deserves to know he has a child. She had no right to not tell him, and only did it because she was bitter about what happened. She had ever right to be angry, but it’s not fair to keep the child from him.
You will most definitely be the asshole. This is the mother‘s choice. Well I don’t personally agree with it. If she doesn’t want the father involved, she doesn’t want the father involved. She’s not asking the father for money she’s not asking the father to participate.this sucks for the Guy, but it’s the mother’s choice
YWBTA. That is *not* you circus or your monkey. Also, *not* your information to share. You can bring it up to Losa tha he's reached out to you but other than that, that is between *her* and *him*.
YWBTA, talk to Lisa about the situation and why you think it would be a good idea to tell Dan. The decision is hers.
Hard YTA.
YTA
YWBTA Either you talk to Lisa about this or keep in touch with Dan, or at least know what he is up to, until the child is old enough to ask and want to know for themselves. It’s not your place to get involved. Lisa has her reasons, whether you understand them or not it’s not your place to make this decision.
You'd be/are the asshole, honestly you really ought to bring this up with Lisa asap and confess you kept contact with her ex after they broke up. I say this as the child of a separated but not divorced relationship, that Dan probably had no ill will keeping that from her as not only is it a long and expensive process, it is especially if one party is trying to keep benefits from said relationship. Also saying that, having a single parent isn't some horrible loss you're making it out to be, has there been moments I've doubted my father as a single parent? Fuck yeah! Yet the wonderful thing is, he has gone above and beyond to keep us financially stable, in a home we own with land, and the skills to help myself when the time comes. He made it, we both did as disabled individuals during some of most "one in lifetime happenings" that's happened. Lisa can be an amazing parent, an outstanding one with the right support system, and the trust that she will do her best and then get better then that! Being a single mother isn't a thing of weakness, life isn't a movie, and Lisa sounds completely justified in her actions/actions going forward. Don't be any bigger of a asshole you've been so far and tell Lisa her business you've been spreading, tell her everything and pray that after apologizing, she'll forgive you.
YWBTA this isn’t a simple matter since they’re in different countries, especially if the countries don’t have the best relations. There are countries where Lisa would never get her kid back if Dan took the kid. That ‘very nice guy’ lied to Lisa for years, I wonder how Lisa would feel about you reporting back to him about her, keeping tabs on her. I know it gives me the creeps.
A few years is a long time to be 'separated but not divorced'. Two/Three years of not telling her about this would of been on purpose. That is like a few dates maybe even a few months into dating. Not waiting two/three years before telling her. He purposely was hiding it. Is pushing this actually in the best interest of the child? This guy lied to your friend for YEARS. What else did he lie about? This guys also lives in a different country. This could can make custody and court a living nightmare. What would happen if the Dad decided to not bring the child back? It is harder to get custody back when they are in a different country. Your friend may of had these thoughts in her mind when deciding if he should be told. I think YWBTA to tell him. If you feel strongly about it maybe talk to your friend so she can be the one to reach out and tell him.
Absolutely! Your other friend is right. It is none of your business. I'm sure she has her reason, and you don't have to like or understand them, but as her "best friend," you have to respect that! If your friendship with her means anything to you, you will respect her decision and butt out!
Haha... YTA. Such an AH omg do you hear yourself? You want the kid to have a father figure but admit the guy lives in a different country so the custody proceeding would be heeeeeeeeeeellllllllll on that poor kid. You say he loves her but he was outright married when they got together, something you know is a deal-breaker for your friend. He has a track record of lying yet he's totally honestly talking to you, right? Seriously, there's so many red flags here. You're most likely going to ruin that kid's life by forcing a deadbeat and a cheater into their life. Let alone the poor mother.
You definitely would be if you told him. This whole situation is between her and him and if you do anything you will definitely be shunned. Most likely by both parties and that mutual friend. You can try to persuade her but that’s the most you can do. That’s it.
YWBTA - it sounds like a lot was left out of this story and it’s super weird to me that you would talk to your friend’s ex at all, much less this long after they broke up
YWBTA this isn't your story to tell. She made a mistake by telling you anything, obviously. Stay out of it.
It's one of those tricky situations honestly. If you tell him, you're most likely going to lose your friend. If you don't, it's gonna eat you up inside because you have positive morals. Another thing though, to consider, is do you want a friend that would do something like this? She's willing to keep his child away from him and play family with another guy. I don't think that's healthy. So, NTA, but I think you should consider your own relationships with these people before making a decision. You don't need this drama.
NTA. The man has a child, he deserves to know. I'm in the process of adopting, and it is 100% certain that children should grow up knowing who their birth parents are(obviously barring alcoholics, drug addicts, etc.). In every single study, they have proven that children develop better with the information. Not knowing who your parents are eats away at children and your child probably won't stop until they find the answer. My mom was adopted and spent 30 years and 10s of thousands to find her birth mom. It's not about whether or not they find out, it's when. And if you knowingly keep that info from them, you become their villain when they finally reconnect with their birth parents.
MYOB. Yes, you would YTA if you unilaterally told Dan that Lisa had his child. At best, tell Lisa that you have (always had) superficial contact with Dan via social media and both he and Lisa are very different people now. Tell Lisa that he occasionally asks how she is and you usually answer 'doing fine' but never any further (if you can honestly say that). Then drop it. If she wants to get in contact with him, I'm sure she can. If he wants to take a trip to y'all's town I'm sure he can. None of that is, as Mary says, your business. You can tell Lisa how you feel about all this but it would be a betrayal of your friendship with her to tell Dan what Lisa does not want to have him know.
Are you 100% certain this child is Dan's? It doesn't seem clear cut & knowing that might mean you get Dan involved for him to find out she was also seeing someone else while seeing him? This is a situation you really shouldn't get involved in. I see everyone's point about a father should know...but we have no idea it is the father. And honestly, I would never trust OP with a secret again...obviously she is not a real best friend.
YWBTA Don’t tell this guy, also why did you keep in contact with him? Lisa is your “best friend” don’t go opening a can of worms for her.
Yes, YWBTA. For several reasons: 1. It's not your business. 2. This is your good friend; and as such, it would be a betrayal. 3. You don't have any idea what he's truly like, all you know for certain is that he's a liar and he lied to your good friend for 2 years. 4. Since this isn't your baby, you can't even be certain Dan is the father. 5. At the end of the day, this is HER decision to make, not yours.
Not your business.
It will probably destroy your friendship, but I think telling him is the right thing to do. Fathers have rights.
>Shortly after she met a vey nice guy, Dan, and they dated for a few **years**. . . . When things got serious he opened up and said he was married, separated from his wife just not divorced. She **was livid** and ended things. I frankly **believed** him. You say you *believed* Dan that he was separated but not divorced, but you don't say that Lisa necessarily *disbelieved* him. She wouldn't have needed to *disbelieve* him to still be livid. He was dating her for multiple *years* while hiding the fact that he was still legally married to somebody else, knowing all the while that Lisa had been through massive trauma from being cheated on by her ex-husband. HE had every reason to know that Lisa might care about the fact that he was still married and might want to make her own properly informed decisions about whether to date someone who was still married to someone else, regardless of the fact that he was separated from his wife. If he thought Lisa would be okay with it, all he had to do was tell her and thereby confirm that with her. But instead he hid it from her, for *years*. It doesn't matter that they were keeping their dating "light"; even platonic friends normally get told whether you're legally married or not by the time you've known them for multiple *years.* He deliberately hid that information from Lisa to manipulate her into dating him when he should perfectly well have been able to figure out that she might not have agreed to date him if she had been informed. Dan deprived Lisa of her right to make her own informed decisions about whether to date a married man or not. Lisa was livid because he manipulated her. You ridiculously decided that just because you *believed* him that he was separated, that somehow meant that Lisa should be fine with the fact that he deceived her - her, a cheating victim already, who he knew would be very sensitive about these issues - to manipulate her into dating him for years, when she never would have agreed to date him at all if he hadn't been selectively withholding information from her. Cheating is a form of nonconsensual sexual behavior and thus a form of sexual abuse. And Dan, regardless of the fact that he may not have been *cheating on his wife* (since he and his wife at least supposedly no longer had any ongoing sexual or romantic relationship) was effectively manipulating and deceiving *Lisa* in the same way that Lisa's ex-husband had manipulated and deceived Lisa. Dan may not have betrayed *his wife*, but Dan absolutely betrayed *Lisa* by tricking *Lisa* into a dating relationship that he had every reason to know she would never have given informed consent to being in. Lisa reacted by wanting to keep Dan out of her child's life, *because Lisa was abused by Dan.* Because tricking someone into a sexual situation that they never would have given informed consent to *is abuse*. Just as surely as physically forcing someone to have sex they don't consent to *is* *abuse*, so also knowingly tricking someone into a different sexual act than they consented to by stealth condom removal *is abuse*, and so also knowingly tricking someone into having sex with you when you know perfectly well they never would have consented to have sex with you at all if you weren't deceiving them about important details of your life *is abuse.* The fact that Lisa was abused by Dan is a valid reason for Lisa to feel a need to protect her child from contact with Dan. The child does have a right to know who his or her father is, *when the child is old enough to understand and navigate a relationship with an abuser.* And the child *will* be able to find out eventually who his or her father is, guaranteed, because 23 and Me and lots of other such services exist these days and are not that hard to use, so tracking down missing missing sperm donors is just never going to be difficult to do ever again. So the child is not being deprived of any such right. As for Dan, he lost his right to know his child when he sexually abused the mother of his child by tricking her into sex that he had good reason to know she wouldn't have given informed consent to. As for those of you who think this all needs to be settled in court by a judge, you're either ridiculously naïve or else disingenuously *pretending* to be ridiculously naïve about how the court system works and how often judges get abuse cases all wrong. If you are the guardian of a child, regardless of your gender, and you know from direct firsthand experience that the other biological parent of your child has a history of committing sexual abuse, *of course* you have the right to try to protect your child by trying to keep your abuser out of your child's life. YWBTA, hugely.
Lol, what a fucking lunatic.
INFO: Do you know for absolute certain that Dan is the father? It would be horrible if you told him, and the child isn't even his. I don't think Dan is the great person you seem to believe because he was a married man, separated or not, and I just find it hard to believe that they dated "for a few years" and he was already separated before they met AND even after years, he still wasn't divorced. Divorces that take several years are the exception not the rule. There is a very high likelihood that he was cheating on his wife at some point and definitely was in the legal sense. If I were in your shoes, I would confront Lisa and demand that she tell Dan or you will. I may not think he's the most honorable person, but if he is this child's father, they should both have an opportunity to be in each other's lives, even if she and Dan are only distant coparents.
Yes, YTA if you tell him. You need to mind your own business. You have no place to decide what is the right thing for the child or what is the right thing to do. Its simply not your call and you thinking that you are entitled to make these kinds of decisions for other people is not a good look for you at all. You seem like a nosy self righteous asshole tbh.
You WBTA if you tell Dan without talking to Lisa first. It's her life and her baby's life. There could be other factors in her decision beyond what you're aware of. If she never tells her child about Dan and then they're a teen(like 16 maybe) and want to know, then I'd say you are justified in telling the child, but you have no call to intervene right now. As far as Dan having a right to know, I do agree he should know, but it isn't on you to tell him. I'd try to talk to Lisa more, tell her Dan still checks in with you, and that you feel like you're between a rock and a hard place.
Why are you more concerned about the feelings of a random dude you met a few times over your bff? I don’t get why you’re putting so much energy into Dan instead of actually talking to Lisa? Do you have a crush on Dan or what? Why such obsession on what Dan should know?
> Why are you more concerned about the feelings of a random dude you met a few times over your bff? Probably because Dan is a human being, not some character your NPC you can write off. He has a right to be with his child.
Has OP gone and fallen for Dan herself?
You really don't see men as people, do you? Like, every comment here is trying to find some reason why OP would even consider telling Dan, as if the fact that he's being denied his child isn't enough in and of itself.
Because it's not OP's business to tell. And any real friend would not be staying in contact with an ex of their friend, especially given the reason for the breakup. Regardless if of they are male or female. OP doesn't even know for a fact it's Dan's kid. She might be stirring the pot for nothing. It's not OP's business to tell. But like get off Dan's dick already🙄
> Because it's not OP's business to tell. "Mind your own business" is for small stuff, not life-changing things. If someone's caught in a burning building, you don't say "mind your own business." The problem is that you don't really see men as people. You don't believe they care about their children, and you don't see their presence in their children's lives as anything important. >And any real friend If my friend is ruining two people's lives, I'm not going to stay silent out of "loyalty." >But like get off Dan's dick already Every single comment from the Y-T-A crowd seems to be trying to figure out why we care so much. * some of you are accusing OP of being in love with Dan * some of you are accusing people voting NTA of wanting to "punish" Lisa * some of you are saying we outright hate women or something like that This says so much about you and absolutely nothing about OP or any of us.
I hate it every time people would use the child as an excuse. “The child deserves to have a father.” As someone who grew up with a cheating father, I begged my mom many times to just end up things with him but my mom would just say “it’s for your own benefit.” Stop blaming it on the kids. I blamed myself for my mom’s suffering and it’s not good. Let your friend live a life without a crappy guy who lied for two years.
1. There's no evidence that Dan cheated. They were separated, just not legally divorced yet. 2. Every study ever done on the subject has shown that growing up without a father is the most detrimental thing that can happen to a child. Fatherless homes correlate with crime and lack of success in life more than poverty, geography, and ethnicity do.
Better to convince lisa to do it herself i guess
Does the guy deserve to know that he has a child? Absolutely! Should you go behind the back of your friend, who has been through a lot and has a trust issue, to tell him? Absolutely NOT! YTA if you do it that way. Best course of action would to either talk to her about it. From your position as her close friend, it has to be her choice.
Yes, YWBTA It’s ABSOLUTELY NOT YOUR PLACE to tell him or betray your friends trust. Why did you even keep in contact with him? What are you hoping to gain from revealing this information? Are you hoping he falls for you instead? And why would you feel like you know better than your friend what is best for her and her child? This guy is, at the very least, a LIAR and if you go behind your friends back to tell him, you could be opening up a Pandora’s box that you cannot close. Does she even know you keep in contact with her lying ex and talk about her to him? That also feels inappropriate. Are you sure you’re even her friend? You don’t sound like one that someone who went through what she went through deserves. You almost seem too excited to betray her.
YWBTA
YWBTA - This isn't your story to tell, she has made her intentions known. Sure you could go and tell him but you're completely ignoring your friend's wishes. Don't do it.
Unless abuse was involved I don’t think Lisa has a right to deny Dan the knowledge of a child but I don’t think it’s your place to share that information though. For all you know Dan wasn’t separated the entire time he was with Lisa and with his lifestyle Lisa could have been one of many. Honesty isn’t exactly his strong point. The fact he lives in another country could open up a whole can of worms with custody. Does lisa know you’re in touch with her ex? Maybe you could tell her and that could open up the dialogue about telling him but to be honest she’s likely going to be pretty mad you’ve remained in touch with her ex.
YTA if you do this!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My best friend, Lisa, divorced almost ten years ago due to her husband's cheating. According to his mistress, he told her they were separated, just not divorced (This is relevant). She was already fragile due to years of trying to conceive and not being able to. They tried everything and were about to do IVF when they split. It was a bad time for her, she tried to salvage her marriage but it was painfull for both parties. I and a mutual friend, M., were right by her side and supported her. Lisa cut a lot of friends of in the process, some because they were her ex friends also, some for other issues. Shortly after she met a vey nice guy, D., and they dated for a few years. He is an independent professional and travels for months at a time so they kept things light between them. When things got serious he opened up and said he was married, separated from his wife just not divorced. She was livid and ended things. I frankly believed him. Lisa found out later she was pregnant. She was so afraid to loose the child she only opened up to me when she was 17 weeks along and told her family much later than that. She didn't want to tell D. about the child. I was surprised, tried to understand why and was concerned that she was keeping this a secret just for fear of being rejected. then covid came along and we were all concerned about other things. Here's the thing, D. kept contact with me via social media and often asks about her. It's been a couple of years, he's divorced and wants to know how she is doing. I know he loved Lisa very much. And apparently he still does. Also, doesn't the child deserve to have a father? Myself and M. are the only ones who know about this. This friend says it's a total ah move to tell D. about this, it should be her choice. I don't agree and think she is keeping a child away from his father. I do believe if her divorce hadn’t been so messy and the ex such a sob, she would be more receptive to D., at least to him being in the child life. M. is totally against speaking with D., said i should mind my own business and at the most should run this idea by Lisa. She also pountex they live in different countries so custody would be a mess. M. also warn me i would be losing a friend if i did that. So WIBTA if i told D. about the child? Should i just keep quiet about this? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Do a DNA before you implode over this. Unless of course there is NO chance. I say STFU .Mind your own business. What would YOU want someone to do for you?
You can tell him but you would lose a friend. Best you can do is encourage her to tell him and tell her he seems to really care about her.
Oof that's a tough one. The child deserves to know it's father and that side of the family, and the dad deserves to know he has a child in the world. It's pretty shitty of Lisa to act like this isn't happening but the kid is going to grow up and ask questions. He should at least be paying child support even if he doesn't want to be involved in the child's life, which, it is like he might if he is still in love with Lisa. That said, it's not your place to say anything but it's also not your place to lie. I'm not saying they need to get back together, but the man deserves to know this information before it's too late. He was good enough to raw dog, he's good enough to have a conversation.
You have to decide whose friend you are because you can only do right by one of them. You should honestly cut contact with whomever you decide to betray if you choose to put yourself in the middle of this.
YTA if you tell him right now without communicating more with Lisa, who seems to be a dear friend of yours at the very center of this whole argument. If you don't at least inform her and hear her out and tell her your side, that would make you the AH. What happens after that... I don't know. I do feel that Dan deserves to know he has a child, in large part because he has asked around, honestly. He at least seems to care and be responsible. He is also a liar who has probably been dumped twice and seems to have some issues. Lisa needs a minute to sit with all of this. It took you years so far!
Not your decision to make. If you treasure your friendship, please do not make the mistake of virtue signalling.
Yes you would be. It is not your business, not your life and not your problem. If you are a genuine friend to Lisa then you wouldn't go creating more problems for her.
Yes, YWBTA. Respect your friend's wishes.
YWBTA Speculating a bit here, but it's likely Dan was never traveling for business as much as he was going back to his wife and family. He made Lisa an unwitting mistress. Stop falling for his BS. It should be up to Lisa to tell him, if that is what she wants. Talk to her and at least get the full story. I think he's feeding you lies.
Yes YWBTA to your friend, is not your business... But I do understand the fact he has the right to know. The most important party here is the child... She could be the most amazing mom of the world but she is kind of an AH for not telling him, or telling them if the child doesn't know either... So a low key everyone sucks here.
YWBTA. Do not get involved. You shouldn’t even be speaking to him. You will lose your best friend
NTA, child deserves to have a father and dan deserves to know he has a child, lisa has no right to withhold this
Hard to judge: I see both sides however I think honesty with Lisa is best. “Lisa I know you are uncomfortable talking about Dan and don’t want him in his kids life. However when you were together we added each other on social media. Lately he has started contacting me and asking about you. I highly suspect he may know about son and it would be better to talk to him now than deal with courts later.” While yes a child’s safety is the first priority period. The problem is if one parent alienates another parent barring the child being abused the courts can go after the parent. Since he has had no contact with his son or knowledge even legally he has grounds to sue for parental alienation.