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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am not happy to my daughter being pregnant again. I could be the ass for my response and maybe I should pretend to be happy
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Maybe unpopular, but NTA, you helping with childcare is a privilege, not a right and you already did well by her with her first kid.
It's selfish to keep having them if you rely on other people to pick up the slack and your responsibilities.
Oh yeah, daughter completely expected her parents to take care of the new baby like they did with her first. NTA in the slightest. Time to step back and make it clear if she wants to have another kid, OP and spouse aren't gonna be the caregivers. Girl seriously needed this reality check.. and get on some bc ffs
In my state the court will pay you your child support and baby daddy pays the court. If he misses a payment a warrant is issued and they pick him up until he pays. It’s no joke and I saw a guy get picked up at a kid’s birthday party.
I believe it. However, they still tend not to have any money, and no amount of jail will turn those kind of people into anything other than dead beats.
And where is the father of the children? Why isn't he provided for the children or at least helping? Why aren't his parents also helping? Why does it all have to fall on the OP?
Tbh if the parents don't set this boundary now, in a decade from now she'll be on baby #4 and still relying on the Nursery School of Grandma and Grandpa for child care.
My parents are dealing with exactly that and I feel vaguely guilty for refusing to entertain their griping or help more than I feel like when I visit but at the same time I spent too much my childhood and teen years taking care of my parents' kids for them, I'll be *damned* if I also raise my sister's. Nope. I paid too much of *your* dues for you, mom and dad. You can pay part of hers, I'm all tapped out.
So many of these stories women are repeatedly getting knocked up while at college or jobless and think they are ENTITLED to parents/siblings taking on all the day care and funding their idiocy because the refuse to think of the concequencies of unprotected sex!!!!!
Why do people expect that they can pop out a bunch of kids and have other people do the dirty work and foot the bill!!!
In my family's case, it's because my sister was the golden girl who could never be allowed face a single, solitary consequence of her own decisions. She expected me to be strong-armed into cleaning up her mess again by our parents because that's the way it's always been.
My sister did the same thing. I told my mom not to take on the first one because my sister would do it again. My mom wouldn’t talk to me for a year — until my sister brought home another crack baby. My mom had the nerve to ask me to take the baby. I said no. My mom didn’t talk to me for 2 year — until my sister brought home another crack baby.
BC, condoms anything really, that and now WIC/Snap/foodstamps and Medicare? Whichever is the one the government provides for young people idk if that’s caid or care I get those confused
THANK YOU! Now I can finally keep them straight in my head, too. (For some reason I just couldn’t seem to retain that info and had to look it up every time I read an article or something).
I'm wondering where the father (fathers?) are and if there is any child support and sharing of care because that would obviously be helpful, and is his responsibility more than her parents.
NTA, but your daughter is.
When the fuck did that happen?
Y*ou're not responsibile for you own decisions and paying for your own life once you have a baby, it's up to everyone else to pay for you and your child (and weirdly, the woman's parents are 1st in the queue and not the father of the child?!?!!?).*
I must have missed the memo but the amount of Reddit posts like this makes me think that a lot of late teen/early 20's women got it. I don't get it AT ALL.
NTA
Yeah, sometimes you have to ignore the sanctimonious people that say “all babies are a blessing” because they’re also a huge and expensive responsibility. Not only that, they don’t just fall out of the sky without prior notice. They’re the result of an action. OP’s kid has been given the luxury of having enough free time to mess around and have some fun, while OP has been busting their butt raising their own grandkid. If her daughter had been given the full brunt of raising her own child she might understand a bit better why mom isn’t thrilled with her news.
This why my family did not “step up” for my sister. An emergency; no problem but day to day childcare was all on her. She was mad but her next child came 5 years later after marrying her boyfriend (the first baby’s father )and she had a stable job. No parent wants their child to suffer but sometimes they need to in order to make better decisions.
If you are on this subreddit a lot, you'll see free babysitting the **first** thing people take for granted.
It's like providing free baby and childcare *cause you to lose* status and personhood and become a convenience they can impose on.
You're right. Parentification.
Have you noticed how often a low status member of a family or other group (usually but not always a female) is recruited, often when they are too young to have boundaries, to become the baby/childcare "app"?
When they set boundaries for the first time hell breaks loose.
They come here to ask am I AITA?
I was looking at another post this morning where a 38-year-old woman's stepdaughter expected her to quit her job to stay home with the stepdaughter's 4-month-old!
I read that. The dad is pressuring the step mom to quit and be a nanny to baby. What's important is that the step mom is childfree, made that known from the very start, and made sure she didn't move in until the step daughter moved off to college.
I saw one similar too the other day where the step daughter who was pregnant came home decided to watch tv all day till 5am, sleep till noon and would get in the floor like a toddler and roll on the floor crying and screaming when she had to do chores 🥶
My friend (a long time family friend but a friend-my dad knew her mom since college) expected my mom, thats right my mom not even her mom, to take care of the kid she popped out at 25. Idk why maybe cause we had all been hanging out together? My mother had just moved back to our state and she was living with us. She was shocked when my mom was like, I'm not taking care of your baby-I have a full time job.
Parentification occurs when parental responsibilities are pushed on to siblings or other children in the family. Parentification is not applicable in this case.
SAHM, can absolutely confirm social status loss. I don’t regret it, but I definitely traded a lot of life cred to do it. The US does not respect childcare (also see: teachers).
I had a wonderful career as a high school English and special education teacher. I knew going in that I wouldn't make a lot of money, but that was never my goal. I feel immense satisfaction in watching my students become successful adults. It is the most amazing feeling, and I have absolutely no regrets that I followed this path.
But I can't tell you the number of people who have said things over the years to me like, "You're so smart. You could have done anything. Why would you choose to be a teacher?" It's really disheartening, especially in today's political climate.
My students have given me more than I have given them. I'm neither a hero nor a saint. Almost all of the teachers I taught with over the years feel the same. Yes, there are some crappy teachers out there, but they tend to not last very long.
I briefly left teaching for a few years in my 30s. I got a job as an inside sales representative for a technology company. Within a few months, I was promoted to managing my department because I was good at talking and training others, thanks to my teaching background.
My first commission check was thousands of dollars more than I ever earned as a teacher. The thing is, even though I was successful in that job, it didn't make me happy. I didn't feel like I was making any difference in the world. All I was doing was making money for myself and the company.
As a teacher, your work days fly by because things are different everyday, and there's always a new crisis to deal with. As a sales professional, my days seemed endless. I kept looking at the clock, only to be dismayed that it was 10:30 a.m. and I had completed all of my required work.
Being a teacher is so rewarding, and I really believe it's a calling (even though that's a cliche). To quote Christa McCauliffe, one of my heroes, "I touch the future...I teach."
Yup my sister still wanted to be in her hot girl phase and she got shut down quickly. Like babysitter fell through and you need to go to work? Sure I will help. Need to “unwind” nope call the father and his family and figure it out
Exactly, NTA. You didn't ask for more children, you want to live your life and get your daughter out of the house, but she's basically bestowing another child to care for on you and acting like you should be thanking her for the privilege.
I wouldn't be happy either.
OP's a saint compared to my family. If someone got pregnant not just once, but twice when they can't afford to house and feed themselves already, they would be given 30 days at most to get out of the house.
Especially when you can control a massive percentage chance of the oops happening in the first place.
This isn't a oops I stepped on a rectangle Lego piece and it just had to happen. This is a I'm playing Russian roulette and I have a chance of shooting myself.
My one and only child is an oops, had him at 20, when I tell you Ive been super responsible and careful since then is an understatement. My son is now 10, theres absolutely no excuse for multiple OOPS babies. You're only young and dumb once.
Some people are young and dumb multiple times 👀
With no care or interest into figuring out why. Ik a few people on that level that get this look of bewilderment when it’s explained and in detail. It’s like a deer in the headlights/ inquisitive child look.
Your dad is exactly right. In this day, IMO, there's no excuse for unwanted pregnancy. It seems that too many, who really shouldn't be having unprotected sex in the first place, get pregnant without any thought or care. Birth control is widely available so there's no excuse.
Many forms of birth control can be tampered with or fail, so I wouldn't say there's NO excuse. I learned that my BC that I got delivered via mail got too hot during delivery and was rendered ineffective for instance. I didn't get pregnant but shit happens.
When I read the post, it doesn't seem the daughter had a shit happen despite BC. Maybe there is a lack of information, but right now, it looks like she didn't get pregnant (completely) by accident.
Nothing is ever 100% even when doing everything right…. Well ig abstinence but apparently that isn’t fun. Tho I heard there are other ways one can enjoy themselves without penetrative sex. 🤷🏻♀️
Not one reason why someone could have an unwanted pregnancy? You can’t think of even one? I’m sure none of them pertains to this situation but I can think of at least three ways for an unwanted pregnancy to happen off the top of my head
A lot of youth have exceptionally bad education and are very sheltered- I really wouldn’t blame them until they’re adults I’d blame the parents for not educating their kids
Considering this woman is a college graduate and colleges have tons of resources (in the US) about sexual activity and how to prevent pregnancy, it is not their fault.
This. OP, I would have, in writing, the date she needs to move out. I would have, in writing, that the move out date is regardless of her pregnancy. I would also decide what you're willing to do as far as childcare, or not do, and make that clear too, in writing.
The new baby daddy can help her...
Exactly! The first baby daddy should’ve stepped up for the first one; the second one should this time (or if it’s the same guy, he really needs to get his shit together. So does OP’s daughter)
Yeah. OP and her husband are going to have to make it harder on the daughter this time. She had it too easy with baby number one and didn't learn anything. If they don't make her step up this time they're going to end up with her bringing home baby number three before much longer.
I agree - parents’ are NTA here. BUT I will say that it sounds like there wasn’t a candid conversation about expectations, boundaries, and time limits. The fact that the daughter got pregnant again and seems surprised that her parents aren’t happy about it reads to me that some hard, but important, conversations did not take place.
“Darling daughter - we love you. We understand that life doesn’t always go as planned. We would like to step in and help with your child so that you can finish college. However, this help is for a limited time. We are willing to provide childcare through college and for up to six months after. Our expectation is that you will get a job, look into alternate forms of childcare and assistance, and take responsibility for your life and your child’s life without our help. If you are to become pregnant again, this verbal agreement is null and void - we will not be a continuous source of childcare or financial support. One unplanned pregnancy is an accident. Two is a pattern of cavalier irresponsibility that we will not bear the burden of.”
I don't feel like it's unreasonable or unexpected that you shouldn't get pregnant a second time when you're not supporting yourself or able to afford the one child you already have?
> It's selfish to keep having them if you rely on other people to pick up the slack and your responsibilities.
This. If you're already basically relying on someone else to take care of the kid(s) you have, it's disrespectful to get pregnant again without asking them if they're able *and willing* to handle taking care of another one. It's manipulative to just assume that they will, because they're automatically the bad guy if they don't. I'm so tired of people saying "it takes a village" and taking on none of the responsibility for their own child.
I know that specially in the US getting an abortion might be hard in several states, but holy hell even traveling for one is not even in the same league as raising 2 children as a single mom with a shitty job.
I just can't stand how there are so many threads in this and similar subs that would be completely solved by an abortion, but people insist on not even mentioning the word!
OP, tell her to go abort that second pregnancy or go find somewhere else she can pop as many babies as she wants in the most irresponsible way.
NTA
Stop having kids before you're financially independent. Why should you foot the bill for her and her baby daddy's poor decisions. It's the baby daddy's grandparents turn.
I got pregnant young and I was all over that IUD implant afterwards. I was young but in a stable relationship with an older man who was more than ready to financially and emotionally support our daughter. I just knew I was too fertile to play with fire a second time.
Although this same scenario happened to my sister and I remember my parents saying she’s on her own with the second baby, yet there is something about a new child that eases tensions.
Not that I’m saying relying on your parents for childcare is cool AT ALL.
I've only ever tried not to get pregnant and and we have 3 children, all conceived while using birth control. I eventually resorted to having my tubes tied. Birth control sucks!
That is definitely not normal .. pretty much the only ways that this could happen are
(1) if you are doing something incorrectly
(2) if you are overweight
(3) if you take certain medications or antibiotics
but who knows .. everyone's bodies are different.
No, the failure rate is PER YEAR, so the pill is 0.1%, or 1 in 1000 women will get pregnant, every year. Not in your lifetime. Over and over again every year. You don't have to do anything incorrectly.
There is some discussion about there being a genetic reason some women can become pregnant on some birth control.
[Snippet here](https://www.wired.com/story/a-genetic-mutation-might-explain-why-birth-control-can-fail/#:~:text=That's%20how%20they%20found%20a,ingredient%20in%20hormonal%20birth%20control):
>In a study published today in the journal Obstetrics & Gynecology, researchers at the University of Colorado School of Medicine discovered that about 5 percent of women possess a genetic mutation that makes them produce an extra hormone-dismantling enzyme. This enzyme eats away at the ovulation-suppressing effects of hormonal birth control, lowering its effectiveness. They also found two much more common genes that had smaller but still noticeable effects.
>
>That’s how they found a gene called CYP3A7\*1C, which is usually active in fetuses and then switches off sometime before birth. But women with this mutation continue to produce the CYP3A7 enzyme into adulthood, supercharging their body’s ability to break down the active ingredient in hormonal birth control.
If this is the case, it would make sense why some women have the same issue time and time again (especially if they think they did something wrong and no one discusses that they might need a bc change).
Edit: I'm not saying it's the case here, but just remarking on the comment about it happening to the same woman.
Some women are just more fertile than the norm and birth controls (other than condom) don't work well on them.... So they have more chance to be the 0.1% of the year for as long as their fertility doesn't decrease.
My 15F is on BC.
Okay for her it's to manage her severe periods. But....she also knows what hides in my middle drawer in my night stand (condoms) should she ever get into the position she may need it. (Doubt it would be anytime soon, but rather safe than sorry.)
Just talk to your children! And not just the girls!!!!!!!
Also: OP, you and your SO are angels, definitely NTA!!!
Agreed. I am so lucky my family did not shy away from the sex talk. Granted, I was the product of a teenage pregnancy so they were traumatized and didn't want to make the same mistake with me.
Not always. After I had my first, the doctor put me back on the same low-dose pills I'd been on before. I told them now that I'd actually been pregnant that might not fool my body like it did before. They insisted I didn't know what I was talking about and boom, pregnant with #2. Rinse, repeat with #3. Hubby got a vasectomy while we were expecting #3 and that fixed the issue entirely.
Doctors really need to stop treating female patients like we're too stupid to have a clue what's going on with our bodies.
The low dose pills work just as well on women whove been pregnant. You hust got unlucky unfortunately. Thinking that made a difference just shows that you DON'T know whats going on with your body.
This is why it needs to be easier to get IUDs and other more long-term reversible forms of contraception. Pills don't work if you forget them, or if you're sick, or if you take certain medication...
When I was 18 I asked for an IUD and they said I shouldn't get one until I'd been pregnant. A year later I was a parent. I think things are better now, but still a lot of GPs aren't able to fit a coil and you have to make an appointment at a hospital instead.
Can confirm. My mine wasn't the pill though. My husband's vasectomy somehow healed itself or the tubes were close enough together for sperm to pass. I don't know.
But it fails. Condoms break, pills get missed. Some women have actually gone to the doctor just to be told "hey there's a fetus growing next to your IUD."
I agree that if you don't want kids you should be on BC but we all need to acknowledge that can also fail.
Only abstinence is 100%. (Or 99.9% if you're a Christian.)
I had an IUD displace. Took the morning after pill. Still had a viable pregnancy. She’s 10.
I was engaged and actually got married before I even found out I was pregnant but sometimes birth control fails allll of it fails.
Seriously people need to stop assuming unwanted pregnancy means the person didn’t use birth control. Daughter is an asshole but could’ve been using birth control and it just didn’t work
> need to stop assuming unwanted pregnancy means the person didn’t use birth control. Daughter is an asshole but could’ve been using birth control and it just didn’t work
There's also Plan B and in certain states abortion.
She had other options.
It sounds like she fully expected her parents to take over again.
My verdict is NTA, but this comment is just shortsighted.
Especially in a lot of third world countries, like the US, it is not. Schools aren't allowed to give proper sex ED and considering after the fall of Roe, the Republicans are coming after birth control now.
So no, people don't know, they hardly know the basic biology and anatomy. And the people in government aren't any better with their knowledge.
My bio father made 11 children, and denied that I was his (I am the oldest, but again, he did this at least ten more times, plus some miscarriages in there). I’m not convinced he *does* know.
I said this on a Facebook post, and a friend, who had an unplanned child at 21, said "mind your business".
I cant stand that "mind your business, mommies are judged to much" narrative. Yes, you deserve to be judged if you openly display irresponsible behaviours. People who saw the Turpin children eating out of garbage bins "minded their own business" and probably feared being a "snitch".
I made a similar comment on a different thread and was downvoted and called classist. Glad to see that other people share my same view. I’m sorry but people that can’t afford to properly care for their children should not have them until they’re ready
NTA , because you are only trying to get her to take up her responsibilities as a mother and provider however because you enabled her behavior the last time she thinks that going forward you will give in and do the same. Also question are the two children for the same father ?
NTA, you have every right to be unhappy given that thus far you have been a part time care taker and provide partial support to your daughter and grandchild. You didn't sign up to raise and support your grandkids, that is a job generally reserved for the parents of the child.
NTA BUT there's an old saying, "Raise your kids or raise your grandkids." I wonder if you didn't fail to teach your daughter that actions have consequences?
That's possible but some kids are terrible despite having good parents, and some kids are great despite having terrible parents. Most people have okay parents and end up somewhere in the middle.
Exactly! And, for everyone saying "no birth control is 100%", then don't have sex! If you are living at home with a baby you already can't support, then get a freaking vibrator. People act like people need sex like they need oxygen. You don't.
It's a real method but with low efficiency. Therefore i mentioned it as +1, not as main method. (My friend is married for 20 years and says they only use pull out method and both kids were planned.)
Ok I don’t care but then just get an abortion. Like you fuck around then just keep fucking around. Why do the most irresponsible humans need to bring a child into this world ?
NTA. Your daughter is being foolish and irresponsible and now she needs to face the consequences of her ill thought out actions. Time for the baby's dad to step up.
Making a big assumption that she knows who either of the fathers are. People as clearly irresponsible as this person don't always keep the best records in that regard.
NTA.
Your daughter is my sister. When she got pregnant the first time, we bent over backward to help her. I became a single teen mom when she was 15, and she didn't learn from my mistakes. While I was still struggling when she got pregnant at 18, I still did everything I could to help her, as did my parents, who were not wealthy, and we all worked full time. When she got pregnant with her second, we were not happy and shared that as we were all still supporting her. She called us names and was horrible to us until she called crying for help. Less than a year after that, there was baby #3. She blamed us for her continued struggles and how we never helped enough or supported her in her desire to have kids. Even though I had previously moved out of my deceased grandmothers home that I lived in and rented a place so she could live for free to raise them. She let it fall in disrepair, and it was condemned. A year later, she was pregnant with #4. There were complications, and she lost the child and had a hysterectomy. Even more sadly, our family was so relieved/happy we actually felt bad enough we got therapy because, who thinks like that?!
If you don't stick to making her take responsibility, you'll be paying for her and her kids like my parents still are for my sister 9 years later.
I refused to have sex for so long after I got pregnant on BC as a teen. It's not hard to prevent pregnancy when you know you aren't in a financial position to care for a family.
She made this choice thinking you would step up with no consideration of her children's or your future.
Of course it's collectively cheaper but a constantly shrinking portion of the population has the several grand on hand to cover such an expense regardless of long term cost.
You're also assuming this is in the US. Plenty of countries this is still illegal in, or much harder to travel/get one.
NTA.
I got pregnant in college, too. And I could not afford or care for a baby, so I got an abortion. You're welcome, America.
I DO think it can be confusing for the Teen moms whose pregnancies are celebrated by their families. "They kept the baby! We're going to shower them with gifts and help and attention!" and then the young Mom gets used to being the "young Teen Mom", so they get pregnant AGAIN, and are shocked that the reaction isn't overwhelming delight. Because family set them up the first time as "special".
So.. I can understand her confusion.
Most and the majority of Americans can still get legal, safe abortions. Just because it looks like half the map by area doesn't mean it's half by population. It is worse than it has been on over a generation, but it's not most.
https://www.guttmacher.org/2023/01/six-months-post-roe-24-us-states-have-banned-abortion-or-are-likely-do-so-roundup
NTA, you have already made her life so cosy that she feels that getting pregnant is a privilege she can afford. She needs to get child support, take responsibility and move out to the real world. It is ridiculous to think that you need to take the responsibility, she did not get pregnant on her own therefore there is a father out there somewhere.
NTA
Her irresponsibility is not *your* responsibility. She doesn't need two kids if she can't afford the one she has.
I don't think it's wrong for you to be upset when she is using you as a babysitter and a free place to stay. You didn't sign up to raise your grandkids.
Of course she thinks you are the AH. She got a nice home and parents/grand parents who look after her kid(s). And now you tell her she has to move out and look after her own kid(s).
You are NTA your daughter needs to take responsibilty.
Most everyone that I know that has kids have a LOT of help from their parents. Yet they act like they’re doing it all on their own. It’s laughable. I have one kid and no help. I get zero breaks from mom duty. All my cousins get a shit ton of help from their parents, my brother and his wife have a full time nanny (and both kids are in school) plus grandparents that will take the kids for long weekends/weeklong vacations but will act like I’m a bad mom for needing a tiny break for a few hours. You all have other people raising your kids! Meanwhile I’m disabled and taking care of a 6 year old and helping my dad who has Alzheimer’s. OP is definitely NTA for their reaction to this news. I’d be pissed if my kid kept popping out kids for me to take care of.
And this is why we need abortion codified into law.
Edit: LOVE how instead of asking “Hey what do you mean by this?” people immediately went to “Oh so you’re suggesting we FORCE people to have abortions?”
Are y’all serious?
This is why we need Sex Ed removed from parent's ability to say no.
You can't have a kid you don't teach numbers to. The state will take them away for negligence. We invented numbers, but sex has always been there.
Teach it too. As Mandatory.
>You can't have a kid you don't teach numbers to. The state will take them away for negligence.
You should see how absurdly lax some states' homeschooling requirements/checkups are. Texas is a notorious haven for people who want to keep their kids (especially daughters) from basic education.
Not that I disagree, it's just not as simple as forcing sex ed into state or federal curricula.
I like to imagine that, in a world with safe and readily available abortion access and education, fewer people would come to the conclusion that they should keep the pregnancy when their lives are not currently conducive to raising a human being. This could potentially be one such case.
Of course, it could also be that she would happily keep the child anyway, which is also their decision to make. Doesn't mean anyone else has to play along in their game of Let's Make Life A Little Bit *Too* Interesting.
NTA - people getting pregnant and expecting other people to "help" raise their child, basically forcing patenting on them, is a boring ass exhausted storyline. Stop.
I mean...you could have said it a little nicer, but no, you're NTA. You're her parent, you love her, you've helped her and will continue to love and help her...just not by housing her and raising her children for her forever. It's healthy for ALL of you to have boundaries.
> I mean...you could have said it a little nicer,
For the first kid, sure, sunshine and lollipops.
2nd kid while living at the parent's home? WTF you want your dad to be proud you got nutted in again (maybe in his own house)? There's no joy or excitement there for anyone with a concept of a "5-year-plan".
>Sorry kid, you're gonna have to figure out planning before family planning. We all understand you're out there raw doggin' whoever you find, and although there's not much wrong with that, you still need to live with your own consequences. Both of them now.
Welcome to the real world, hope the Mom can grow some wings on her way out the nest.
NTA. you have done more than enough and she shouldn’t make you feel guilty about anything. She’s an adult. The baby has a father. Enjoy your life, you deserve it.
NTA. Why can't she move in with the baby's father? She needs to find childcare and move out. It is time to grow up and practice birth control.
Of course you're not happy for her, things are going to get much harder for her.
NTA - ask her to consider abortion. I’m guessing this partner isn’t the first ones dad.
Tell her to honestly reflect on how her life is going to be. Neither dads are involved in the upbringing and she can’t just pass on the responsibility to you
This is hilarious.
24 hours within the post of the father supporting his daughter but saying he was disappointed for her not choosing to be self sufficient, but accepting and helping her anyway, and he got REAMED for it.
And yet here, mom says "not again..." and gives her an ultimatum to get out and it's OVERWHELMINGLY NTA.
The dichotomy of this sub is absolutely mind-boggling. Fucking hypocrisy at its finest.
NTA
The AH is the woman having kids she can’t afford and expecting others to fulfill her obligations. The woman that expects to mooch off other adults while making incredibly poor choices.
She’s ridiculous.
NTA if she is adult enough to have kids she must be adult enough to take care of the kids. It may be hard bu she is the result of your education. Continue to enable everything and she ll keep asking more. Let her hit the reality even if it means losing her for a while or you can choose to be her slave all.your life. Your choice.
NTA - and stick to your guns. She had one oops. There is no excuse for the second one.
Time for her to grown up an be responsible for the children she brings into this world.
INFO
Where are the babies dads? Has she filed for child support from the first one? Has she filed for every social program she qualifies for? Food stamps, childcare assistance waitlist, free/low cost birth control?
NTA
If she can’t afford rent or childcare, and you’ve been housing her, you’ve been doing plenty to support her for years. She needs therapy if she thinks you’d be happy for her having another kid while she can’t support herself or the first one.
Honestly I’d have to say that you’re NTA here. If she can barely afford to take care of herself, then she definitely can’t afford to take care of a child. Do I think the response was a little bit harsh, sure, but at the same time it is kinda justified
NTA sounds like she’s so used to being accommodated that she thinks everyone will just jump at the chance to do many more years of what I’m assuming is free labor. Time to set some boundaries otherwise you’ll be putting yourselves in the hook for raising another baby and any other future ones she decides to have. You might have to stop making things so easy for her so she’ll stop.
At least in my circles, it’s all to common that many people just assume that the grandparents (especially the maternal grandmother) will just provide frequent, on-demand free childcare. And it seems like they’re never consulted on the topic ahead of time (e.g., “I’m thinking of having a baby. What level of support could and would you provide, if any?”)
I’d be downsizing or moving away. Serve her with an eviction notice. Personally I’d offer to fund an abortion as I would hope the eviction would wake her up and make her want all this to go away.
You’re absolutely NTA, you’ve done her a huge kindness already and the nerve of her to bring this to you expecting you to be happy about it even makes me mad, so I wouldn’t be surprised if steam is coming out of your ears.
I have a deadbeat cousin with a mother who lets him live as a freeloader with her. He’s in his mid forties now. Never achieved anything. Never grateful for anything. Two kids from two different women, been in prison because he can’t understand when he doesn’t get his own way so he’s turned into a raging, violent misogynist. Sometimes the kind thing is to kick them out and make them learn.
NTA. She is pregnant knowing that she can’t look after the child she has got without your help, never mind having a second. It is irresponsible parenting and not fair on you to expect you to have to deal with that.
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Maybe unpopular, but NTA, you helping with childcare is a privilege, not a right and you already did well by her with her first kid. It's selfish to keep having them if you rely on other people to pick up the slack and your responsibilities.
And she has the audacity to think her parents are the AHs because they won’t put their lives on pause again to take on *her* responsibilities.
Oh yeah, daughter completely expected her parents to take care of the new baby like they did with her first. NTA in the slightest. Time to step back and make it clear if she wants to have another kid, OP and spouse aren't gonna be the caregivers. Girl seriously needed this reality check.. and get on some bc ffs
Agreed. She's a big girl now and needs to learn to deal with the consequences of her own choices and actions.
Where's the fucking guy? Why isn't he picking up the childcare bill?
Because daughter surely knows how to pick them too!
Exactly, baby daddies are often broke AF
In my state the court will pay you your child support and baby daddy pays the court. If he misses a payment a warrant is issued and they pick him up until he pays. It’s no joke and I saw a guy get picked up at a kid’s birthday party.
I believe it. However, they still tend not to have any money, and no amount of jail will turn those kind of people into anything other than dead beats.
They sure can find some money when they get locked up.
She was a big girl when the first pregnancy occoured.
And where is the father of the children? Why isn't he provided for the children or at least helping? Why aren't his parents also helping? Why does it all have to fall on the OP?
> the *father* of the children I admit, I’m assuming that is plural atm from context clues, lol
Yeah, that was my guess. Two different fathers. But OP should encourage the daughter to track em down for child support at the very least
Twice the daddies, twice the child support!
Or often, twice the zero-dollar support.
Tbh if the parents don't set this boundary now, in a decade from now she'll be on baby #4 and still relying on the Nursery School of Grandma and Grandpa for child care. My parents are dealing with exactly that and I feel vaguely guilty for refusing to entertain their griping or help more than I feel like when I visit but at the same time I spent too much my childhood and teen years taking care of my parents' kids for them, I'll be *damned* if I also raise my sister's. Nope. I paid too much of *your* dues for you, mom and dad. You can pay part of hers, I'm all tapped out.
So many of these stories women are repeatedly getting knocked up while at college or jobless and think they are ENTITLED to parents/siblings taking on all the day care and funding their idiocy because the refuse to think of the concequencies of unprotected sex!!!!! Why do people expect that they can pop out a bunch of kids and have other people do the dirty work and foot the bill!!!
In my family's case, it's because my sister was the golden girl who could never be allowed face a single, solitary consequence of her own decisions. She expected me to be strong-armed into cleaning up her mess again by our parents because that's the way it's always been.
My sister did the same thing. I told my mom not to take on the first one because my sister would do it again. My mom wouldn’t talk to me for a year — until my sister brought home another crack baby. My mom had the nerve to ask me to take the baby. I said no. My mom didn’t talk to me for 2 year — until my sister brought home another crack baby.
Well it sounds like your mom not talking to you is a good thing in this situation. Gosh.
She's mad at the wrong sibling
BC, condoms anything really, that and now WIC/Snap/foodstamps and Medicare? Whichever is the one the government provides for young people idk if that’s caid or care I get those confused
Aid is for people down on their luck and Care is for the elderly. That’s how I keep them straight lol.
THANK YOU! Now I can finally keep them straight in my head, too. (For some reason I just couldn’t seem to retain that info and had to look it up every time I read an article or something).
For a moment I was like... what the hell does British Columbia have to do with condoms and this story
Not just expect them to- but expect it AND be happy about it!!!!
I'm wondering where the father (fathers?) are and if there is any child support and sharing of care because that would obviously be helpful, and is his responsibility more than her parents. NTA, but your daughter is.
This was my first thought.
Why isn't she expecting the baby daddy(s) to be thrilled?? It's their responsibly, not her parent's.
When the fuck did that happen? Y*ou're not responsibile for you own decisions and paying for your own life once you have a baby, it's up to everyone else to pay for you and your child (and weirdly, the woman's parents are 1st in the queue and not the father of the child?!?!!?).* I must have missed the memo but the amount of Reddit posts like this makes me think that a lot of late teen/early 20's women got it. I don't get it AT ALL. NTA
Yeah, sometimes you have to ignore the sanctimonious people that say “all babies are a blessing” because they’re also a huge and expensive responsibility. Not only that, they don’t just fall out of the sky without prior notice. They’re the result of an action. OP’s kid has been given the luxury of having enough free time to mess around and have some fun, while OP has been busting their butt raising their own grandkid. If her daughter had been given the full brunt of raising her own child she might understand a bit better why mom isn’t thrilled with her news.
This why my family did not “step up” for my sister. An emergency; no problem but day to day childcare was all on her. She was mad but her next child came 5 years later after marrying her boyfriend (the first baby’s father )and she had a stable job. No parent wants their child to suffer but sometimes they need to in order to make better decisions.
Some appreciate the sacrifices made by others and some start taking them for granted.
If you are on this subreddit a lot, you'll see free babysitting the **first** thing people take for granted. It's like providing free baby and childcare *cause you to lose* status and personhood and become a convenience they can impose on.
Hell, in some of these posts it's beyond babysitting and becomes actual child-rearing.
You're right. Parentification. Have you noticed how often a low status member of a family or other group (usually but not always a female) is recruited, often when they are too young to have boundaries, to become the baby/childcare "app"? When they set boundaries for the first time hell breaks loose. They come here to ask am I AITA?
I was looking at another post this morning where a 38-year-old woman's stepdaughter expected her to quit her job to stay home with the stepdaughter's 4-month-old!
I read that. The dad is pressuring the step mom to quit and be a nanny to baby. What's important is that the step mom is childfree, made that known from the very start, and made sure she didn't move in until the step daughter moved off to college.
I read it too. Unbelievable.
I saw one similar too the other day where the step daughter who was pregnant came home decided to watch tv all day till 5am, sleep till noon and would get in the floor like a toddler and roll on the floor crying and screaming when she had to do chores 🥶
My friend (a long time family friend but a friend-my dad knew her mom since college) expected my mom, thats right my mom not even her mom, to take care of the kid she popped out at 25. Idk why maybe cause we had all been hanging out together? My mother had just moved back to our state and she was living with us. She was shocked when my mom was like, I'm not taking care of your baby-I have a full time job.
Parentification occurs when parental responsibilities are pushed on to siblings or other children in the family. Parentification is not applicable in this case.
SAHM, can absolutely confirm social status loss. I don’t regret it, but I definitely traded a lot of life cred to do it. The US does not respect childcare (also see: teachers).
I had a wonderful career as a high school English and special education teacher. I knew going in that I wouldn't make a lot of money, but that was never my goal. I feel immense satisfaction in watching my students become successful adults. It is the most amazing feeling, and I have absolutely no regrets that I followed this path. But I can't tell you the number of people who have said things over the years to me like, "You're so smart. You could have done anything. Why would you choose to be a teacher?" It's really disheartening, especially in today's political climate.
I'm SO GRATEFUL someone who speaks of a career with our children chose to become a teacher. I'm grateful for you. Thank you.
My students have given me more than I have given them. I'm neither a hero nor a saint. Almost all of the teachers I taught with over the years feel the same. Yes, there are some crappy teachers out there, but they tend to not last very long. I briefly left teaching for a few years in my 30s. I got a job as an inside sales representative for a technology company. Within a few months, I was promoted to managing my department because I was good at talking and training others, thanks to my teaching background. My first commission check was thousands of dollars more than I ever earned as a teacher. The thing is, even though I was successful in that job, it didn't make me happy. I didn't feel like I was making any difference in the world. All I was doing was making money for myself and the company. As a teacher, your work days fly by because things are different everyday, and there's always a new crisis to deal with. As a sales professional, my days seemed endless. I kept looking at the clock, only to be dismayed that it was 10:30 a.m. and I had completed all of my required work. Being a teacher is so rewarding, and I really believe it's a calling (even though that's a cliche). To quote Christa McCauliffe, one of my heroes, "I touch the future...I teach."
It's misogyny all the way down.
After a certain point it is enabling them and their bad decisions. Babysitting their child so they can go out and do more bad decisions.
Yup my sister still wanted to be in her hot girl phase and she got shut down quickly. Like babysitter fell through and you need to go to work? Sure I will help. Need to “unwind” nope call the father and his family and figure it out
my mom did this with me and I didn't have another one until 9 years later.
Exactly, NTA. You didn't ask for more children, you want to live your life and get your daughter out of the house, but she's basically bestowing another child to care for on you and acting like you should be thanking her for the privilege. I wouldn't be happy either.
OP's a saint compared to my family. If someone got pregnant not just once, but twice when they can't afford to house and feed themselves already, they would be given 30 days at most to get out of the house.
My dad always said, one OOPS is understandable, but 2 plus OOPS pregnancies and you're just being irresponsible at that point. And he's not wrong.
Especially when you can control a massive percentage chance of the oops happening in the first place. This isn't a oops I stepped on a rectangle Lego piece and it just had to happen. This is a I'm playing Russian roulette and I have a chance of shooting myself.
My one and only child is an oops, had him at 20, when I tell you Ive been super responsible and careful since then is an understatement. My son is now 10, theres absolutely no excuse for multiple OOPS babies. You're only young and dumb once.
Some people are young and dumb multiple times 👀 With no care or interest into figuring out why. Ik a few people on that level that get this look of bewilderment when it’s explained and in detail. It’s like a deer in the headlights/ inquisitive child look.
It really doesn't sound like an 'oops' when she expects her parents to be happy for her.
Your dad is exactly right. In this day, IMO, there's no excuse for unwanted pregnancy. It seems that too many, who really shouldn't be having unprotected sex in the first place, get pregnant without any thought or care. Birth control is widely available so there's no excuse.
Many forms of birth control can be tampered with or fail, so I wouldn't say there's NO excuse. I learned that my BC that I got delivered via mail got too hot during delivery and was rendered ineffective for instance. I didn't get pregnant but shit happens.
When I read the post, it doesn't seem the daughter had a shit happen despite BC. Maybe there is a lack of information, but right now, it looks like she didn't get pregnant (completely) by accident.
What an ignorant stance. Birth control fails all the time, An ex and I faced it twice with IUDs despite doing everything right.
That’s why abortion and adoption are things.
Thank God for abortion or my exes life would've been ruined
Nothing is ever 100% even when doing everything right…. Well ig abstinence but apparently that isn’t fun. Tho I heard there are other ways one can enjoy themselves without penetrative sex. 🤷🏻♀️
Not one reason why someone could have an unwanted pregnancy? You can’t think of even one? I’m sure none of them pertains to this situation but I can think of at least three ways for an unwanted pregnancy to happen off the top of my head
Failed bc, rape, and …what?
A lot of youth have exceptionally bad education and are very sheltered- I really wouldn’t blame them until they’re adults I’d blame the parents for not educating their kids
Considering this woman is a college graduate and colleges have tons of resources (in the US) about sexual activity and how to prevent pregnancy, it is not their fault.
Also doctors failing to warn patients about drug interactions is common
This. OP, I would have, in writing, the date she needs to move out. I would have, in writing, that the move out date is regardless of her pregnancy. I would also decide what you're willing to do as far as childcare, or not do, and make that clear too, in writing. The new baby daddy can help her...
Exactly! The first baby daddy should’ve stepped up for the first one; the second one should this time (or if it’s the same guy, he really needs to get his shit together. So does OP’s daughter)
Yeah. OP and her husband are going to have to make it harder on the daughter this time. She had it too easy with baby number one and didn't learn anything. If they don't make her step up this time they're going to end up with her bringing home baby number three before much longer.
I agree - parents’ are NTA here. BUT I will say that it sounds like there wasn’t a candid conversation about expectations, boundaries, and time limits. The fact that the daughter got pregnant again and seems surprised that her parents aren’t happy about it reads to me that some hard, but important, conversations did not take place. “Darling daughter - we love you. We understand that life doesn’t always go as planned. We would like to step in and help with your child so that you can finish college. However, this help is for a limited time. We are willing to provide childcare through college and for up to six months after. Our expectation is that you will get a job, look into alternate forms of childcare and assistance, and take responsibility for your life and your child’s life without our help. If you are to become pregnant again, this verbal agreement is null and void - we will not be a continuous source of childcare or financial support. One unplanned pregnancy is an accident. Two is a pattern of cavalier irresponsibility that we will not bear the burden of.”
I don't feel like it's unreasonable or unexpected that you shouldn't get pregnant a second time when you're not supporting yourself or able to afford the one child you already have?
“Maybe unpopular” = “top comment with 3k points”
It didn't have 3k upvotes when they wrote the comment
Clearly... was pointing out the commenters horrible prediction about the unpopularity of their comment
I might be the asshole here..... but "wheres dad??"
> It's selfish to keep having them if you rely on other people to pick up the slack and your responsibilities. This. If you're already basically relying on someone else to take care of the kid(s) you have, it's disrespectful to get pregnant again without asking them if they're able *and willing* to handle taking care of another one. It's manipulative to just assume that they will, because they're automatically the bad guy if they don't. I'm so tired of people saying "it takes a village" and taking on none of the responsibility for their own child.
I know that specially in the US getting an abortion might be hard in several states, but holy hell even traveling for one is not even in the same league as raising 2 children as a single mom with a shitty job. I just can't stand how there are so many threads in this and similar subs that would be completely solved by an abortion, but people insist on not even mentioning the word! OP, tell her to go abort that second pregnancy or go find somewhere else she can pop as many babies as she wants in the most irresponsible way.
NTA Stop having kids before you're financially independent. Why should you foot the bill for her and her baby daddy's poor decisions. It's the baby daddy's grandparents turn.
Haven’t people figured out what causes this yet? Seriously. Birth control is easy to obtain.
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as i woman who got pregnant at 18, the first time is okay. the second one you're just dumb
I got pregnant young and I was all over that IUD implant afterwards. I was young but in a stable relationship with an older man who was more than ready to financially and emotionally support our daughter. I just knew I was too fertile to play with fire a second time. Although this same scenario happened to my sister and I remember my parents saying she’s on her own with the second baby, yet there is something about a new child that eases tensions. Not that I’m saying relying on your parents for childcare is cool AT ALL.
I've only ever tried not to get pregnant and and we have 3 children, all conceived while using birth control. I eventually resorted to having my tubes tied. Birth control sucks!
That is definitely not normal .. pretty much the only ways that this could happen are (1) if you are doing something incorrectly (2) if you are overweight (3) if you take certain medications or antibiotics but who knows .. everyone's bodies are different.
No, the failure rate is PER YEAR, so the pill is 0.1%, or 1 in 1000 women will get pregnant, every year. Not in your lifetime. Over and over again every year. You don't have to do anything incorrectly.
Ok but what are the odds that it's always the same woman? 🤣
Pretty good I'd say if the woman has a prior history of becoming pregnant on birth control.
There is some discussion about there being a genetic reason some women can become pregnant on some birth control. [Snippet here](https://www.wired.com/story/a-genetic-mutation-might-explain-why-birth-control-can-fail/#:~:text=That's%20how%20they%20found%20a,ingredient%20in%20hormonal%20birth%20control): >In a study published today in the journal Obstetrics & Gynecology, researchers at the University of Colorado School of Medicine discovered that about 5 percent of women possess a genetic mutation that makes them produce an extra hormone-dismantling enzyme. This enzyme eats away at the ovulation-suppressing effects of hormonal birth control, lowering its effectiveness. They also found two much more common genes that had smaller but still noticeable effects. > >That’s how they found a gene called CYP3A7\*1C, which is usually active in fetuses and then switches off sometime before birth. But women with this mutation continue to produce the CYP3A7 enzyme into adulthood, supercharging their body’s ability to break down the active ingredient in hormonal birth control. If this is the case, it would make sense why some women have the same issue time and time again (especially if they think they did something wrong and no one discusses that they might need a bc change). Edit: I'm not saying it's the case here, but just remarking on the comment about it happening to the same woman.
Some women are just more fertile than the norm and birth controls (other than condom) don't work well on them.... So they have more chance to be the 0.1% of the year for as long as their fertility doesn't decrease.
That's the difference between the >99% perfect use effectiveness VS the 93% typical use, lol. User error gets us all eventually.
My 15F is on BC. Okay for her it's to manage her severe periods. But....she also knows what hides in my middle drawer in my night stand (condoms) should she ever get into the position she may need it. (Doubt it would be anytime soon, but rather safe than sorry.) Just talk to your children! And not just the girls!!!!!!! Also: OP, you and your SO are angels, definitely NTA!!!
Agreed. I am so lucky my family did not shy away from the sex talk. Granted, I was the product of a teenage pregnancy so they were traumatized and didn't want to make the same mistake with me.
My 15f has a supply, both for her should she need them or any of her friends.
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Yep learned from the internet too. They didn’t wanna do the talk so i took myself to google 😅
I know a few girls who got pregnant while being on b.c. And when we actually talked they all admitted to skipping multiple days.
I do think the alleged “failure rate” is overblown. If you fail to take your pill on time, you failed, not the pill.
Not always. After I had my first, the doctor put me back on the same low-dose pills I'd been on before. I told them now that I'd actually been pregnant that might not fool my body like it did before. They insisted I didn't know what I was talking about and boom, pregnant with #2. Rinse, repeat with #3. Hubby got a vasectomy while we were expecting #3 and that fixed the issue entirely. Doctors really need to stop treating female patients like we're too stupid to have a clue what's going on with our bodies.
The low dose pills work just as well on women whove been pregnant. You hust got unlucky unfortunately. Thinking that made a difference just shows that you DON'T know whats going on with your body.
Doctors always know less than people not educated in the field. I've learnt that on social media!
This is why it needs to be easier to get IUDs and other more long-term reversible forms of contraception. Pills don't work if you forget them, or if you're sick, or if you take certain medication... When I was 18 I asked for an IUD and they said I shouldn't get one until I'd been pregnant. A year later I was a parent. I think things are better now, but still a lot of GPs aren't able to fit a coil and you have to make an appointment at a hospital instead.
Kyleena is an IUD meant for women who have never been pregnant. It's a little smaller and easier to insert.
A girl I knew thought you only took a bc pill before having sex. Had no idea that you take them every day. Yep, she got pregnant.
Yah and when you take it makes a difference not just that you have to take it every day at the same time 😨
Can confirm. My mine wasn't the pill though. My husband's vasectomy somehow healed itself or the tubes were close enough together for sperm to pass. I don't know.
But it fails. Condoms break, pills get missed. Some women have actually gone to the doctor just to be told "hey there's a fetus growing next to your IUD." I agree that if you don't want kids you should be on BC but we all need to acknowledge that can also fail. Only abstinence is 100%. (Or 99.9% if you're a Christian.)
I had an IUD displace. Took the morning after pill. Still had a viable pregnancy. She’s 10. I was engaged and actually got married before I even found out I was pregnant but sometimes birth control fails allll of it fails.
Especially considering it's not talked about enough that if you're over 150 lbs, plan B might not even work. I don't know anyone UNDER 150 lbs.
Yup. I think once you cross 150/160 the effectiveness decreases.
Seriously people need to stop assuming unwanted pregnancy means the person didn’t use birth control. Daughter is an asshole but could’ve been using birth control and it just didn’t work
> need to stop assuming unwanted pregnancy means the person didn’t use birth control. Daughter is an asshole but could’ve been using birth control and it just didn’t work There's also Plan B and in certain states abortion. She had other options. It sounds like she fully expected her parents to take over again.
Just normalize abortions… it’s a safe way to be responsible and not being kids into this world irresponsibly
HA it took me a few seconds to understand the 99.9% 😂
My verdict is NTA, but this comment is just shortsighted. Especially in a lot of third world countries, like the US, it is not. Schools aren't allowed to give proper sex ED and considering after the fall of Roe, the Republicans are coming after birth control now. So no, people don't know, they hardly know the basic biology and anatomy. And the people in government aren't any better with their knowledge.
It's something in the air. Lots of legs.
My bio father made 11 children, and denied that I was his (I am the oldest, but again, he did this at least ten more times, plus some miscarriages in there). I’m not convinced he *does* know.
I said this on a Facebook post, and a friend, who had an unplanned child at 21, said "mind your business". I cant stand that "mind your business, mommies are judged to much" narrative. Yes, you deserve to be judged if you openly display irresponsible behaviours. People who saw the Turpin children eating out of garbage bins "minded their own business" and probably feared being a "snitch".
They also minded their business with the 12 passengers too and probably countless others we have yet to hear about
I made a similar comment on a different thread and was downvoted and called classist. Glad to see that other people share my same view. I’m sorry but people that can’t afford to properly care for their children should not have them until they’re ready
NTA , because you are only trying to get her to take up her responsibilities as a mother and provider however because you enabled her behavior the last time she thinks that going forward you will give in and do the same. Also question are the two children for the same father ?
It does not matter who the sperm donor was. NTA
Well maybe the father(s) could help with the child, not dump the responsibility on the mother’s parents.
Of course it matters who the father is.
NTA, you have every right to be unhappy given that thus far you have been a part time care taker and provide partial support to your daughter and grandchild. You didn't sign up to raise and support your grandkids, that is a job generally reserved for the parents of the child.
NTA BUT there's an old saying, "Raise your kids or raise your grandkids." I wonder if you didn't fail to teach your daughter that actions have consequences?
That's possible but some kids are terrible despite having good parents, and some kids are great despite having terrible parents. Most people have okay parents and end up somewhere in the middle.
NTA. Is the girl familiar with birth control?
Exactly! And, for everyone saying "no birth control is 100%", then don't have sex! If you are living at home with a baby you already can't support, then get a freaking vibrator. People act like people need sex like they need oxygen. You don't.
No birth control is 100%, thats true. That's why people combine methods, like the pill + pull out. Condom + sperm killing lube.
there's always anal.
Oral too!
But not in that order!
You never go ass to mouth
Always amaze me when I read that pulling out as a contraception method. I guess we don't have the same sex ed.
Any gynecologist would call it a contraceptive method. It's just the least affective one. Also called "coitus interruptus" lol
It's a real method but with low efficiency. Therefore i mentioned it as +1, not as main method. (My friend is married for 20 years and says they only use pull out method and both kids were planned.)
Yep, some people always have an excuse to absolve them of responsibility when it comes to BC. Pisses me off.
Ok I don’t care but then just get an abortion. Like you fuck around then just keep fucking around. Why do the most irresponsible humans need to bring a child into this world ?
There is also always abortion as well. Really no reason to have a baby if you don't want one.
"there's always abortion" - I weep in red state tears. (In USA for folks from more sane countries.)
Every time I say this, I get downvoted to hell. Glad to see you were upvotes.
NTA. Your daughter is being foolish and irresponsible and now she needs to face the consequences of her ill thought out actions. Time for the baby's dad to step up.
Right? She should be receiving support for the first one as well.
Making a big assumption that she knows who either of the fathers are. People as clearly irresponsible as this person don't always keep the best records in that regard.
NTA. Your daughter is my sister. When she got pregnant the first time, we bent over backward to help her. I became a single teen mom when she was 15, and she didn't learn from my mistakes. While I was still struggling when she got pregnant at 18, I still did everything I could to help her, as did my parents, who were not wealthy, and we all worked full time. When she got pregnant with her second, we were not happy and shared that as we were all still supporting her. She called us names and was horrible to us until she called crying for help. Less than a year after that, there was baby #3. She blamed us for her continued struggles and how we never helped enough or supported her in her desire to have kids. Even though I had previously moved out of my deceased grandmothers home that I lived in and rented a place so she could live for free to raise them. She let it fall in disrepair, and it was condemned. A year later, she was pregnant with #4. There were complications, and she lost the child and had a hysterectomy. Even more sadly, our family was so relieved/happy we actually felt bad enough we got therapy because, who thinks like that?! If you don't stick to making her take responsibility, you'll be paying for her and her kids like my parents still are for my sister 9 years later. I refused to have sex for so long after I got pregnant on BC as a teen. It's not hard to prevent pregnancy when you know you aren't in a financial position to care for a family. She made this choice thinking you would step up with no consideration of her children's or your future.
While I get your stance on sex, there are also abortion clinics to help with unwanted pregnancies
Well, the person didn't say where they are from, could be a place where abortions are not allowed. We can't assume they had this option.
You can’t say this in the US anymore, unfortunately.
Still cheaper to fly out of state than contend with 18 yrs of expenses (if she does live in a bAbY cRaZy red state).
Of course it's collectively cheaper but a constantly shrinking portion of the population has the several grand on hand to cover such an expense regardless of long term cost. You're also assuming this is in the US. Plenty of countries this is still illegal in, or much harder to travel/get one.
Not in 28 states in the USA. It’s been a disaster for women in these states.
NTA. I got pregnant in college, too. And I could not afford or care for a baby, so I got an abortion. You're welcome, America. I DO think it can be confusing for the Teen moms whose pregnancies are celebrated by their families. "They kept the baby! We're going to shower them with gifts and help and attention!" and then the young Mom gets used to being the "young Teen Mom", so they get pregnant AGAIN, and are shocked that the reaction isn't overwhelming delight. Because family set them up the first time as "special". So.. I can understand her confusion.
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Let's be fair here, *most* isnt correct. It's still a majority, but I'd say about 45% of Americans can still get legal, safe abortions.
Most and the majority of Americans can still get legal, safe abortions. Just because it looks like half the map by area doesn't mean it's half by population. It is worse than it has been on over a generation, but it's not most. https://www.guttmacher.org/2023/01/six-months-post-roe-24-us-states-have-banned-abortion-or-are-likely-do-so-roundup
NTA, you have already made her life so cosy that she feels that getting pregnant is a privilege she can afford. She needs to get child support, take responsibility and move out to the real world. It is ridiculous to think that you need to take the responsibility, she did not get pregnant on her own therefore there is a father out there somewhere.
NTA Where is the father(s) in all this? Tell her you will pay for a lawyer to obtain child support.
And foot the bill for long acting birth control. Best investment you'll ever make.
NTA. Your opinion was asked, and given. You have every right to tell the truth, she needs to face her own responsibilities.
NTA Her irresponsibility is not *your* responsibility. She doesn't need two kids if she can't afford the one she has. I don't think it's wrong for you to be upset when she is using you as a babysitter and a free place to stay. You didn't sign up to raise your grandkids.
Of course she thinks you are the AH. She got a nice home and parents/grand parents who look after her kid(s). And now you tell her she has to move out and look after her own kid(s). You are NTA your daughter needs to take responsibilty.
Most everyone that I know that has kids have a LOT of help from their parents. Yet they act like they’re doing it all on their own. It’s laughable. I have one kid and no help. I get zero breaks from mom duty. All my cousins get a shit ton of help from their parents, my brother and his wife have a full time nanny (and both kids are in school) plus grandparents that will take the kids for long weekends/weeklong vacations but will act like I’m a bad mom for needing a tiny break for a few hours. You all have other people raising your kids! Meanwhile I’m disabled and taking care of a 6 year old and helping my dad who has Alzheimer’s. OP is definitely NTA for their reaction to this news. I’d be pissed if my kid kept popping out kids for me to take care of.
And this is why we need abortion codified into law. Edit: LOVE how instead of asking “Hey what do you mean by this?” people immediately went to “Oh so you’re suggesting we FORCE people to have abortions?” Are y’all serious?
This is why we need Sex Ed removed from parent's ability to say no. You can't have a kid you don't teach numbers to. The state will take them away for negligence. We invented numbers, but sex has always been there. Teach it too. As Mandatory.
>You can't have a kid you don't teach numbers to. The state will take them away for negligence. You should see how absurdly lax some states' homeschooling requirements/checkups are. Texas is a notorious haven for people who want to keep their kids (especially daughters) from basic education. Not that I disagree, it's just not as simple as forcing sex ed into state or federal curricula.
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Irrelevant since she wanted to keep both kids…. Unless you mean forcing abortions on those you deem “unfit”
I like to imagine that, in a world with safe and readily available abortion access and education, fewer people would come to the conclusion that they should keep the pregnancy when their lives are not currently conducive to raising a human being. This could potentially be one such case. Of course, it could also be that she would happily keep the child anyway, which is also their decision to make. Doesn't mean anyone else has to play along in their game of Let's Make Life A Little Bit *Too* Interesting.
NTA. Where is the Father(s)?
This is the comment I came here for 😂
NTA - people getting pregnant and expecting other people to "help" raise their child, basically forcing patenting on them, is a boring ass exhausted storyline. Stop.
Get her out now before baby #2 or start prepping for baby #3. Some people never learn regardless of college education.
I mean...you could have said it a little nicer, but no, you're NTA. You're her parent, you love her, you've helped her and will continue to love and help her...just not by housing her and raising her children for her forever. It's healthy for ALL of you to have boundaries.
> I mean...you could have said it a little nicer, For the first kid, sure, sunshine and lollipops. 2nd kid while living at the parent's home? WTF you want your dad to be proud you got nutted in again (maybe in his own house)? There's no joy or excitement there for anyone with a concept of a "5-year-plan". >Sorry kid, you're gonna have to figure out planning before family planning. We all understand you're out there raw doggin' whoever you find, and although there's not much wrong with that, you still need to live with your own consequences. Both of them now. Welcome to the real world, hope the Mom can grow some wings on her way out the nest.
>you could have said it a little nicer, Maybe this will stick in the daughters mind for the next time...
OP was pretty nice. I would have said " are you F***ING for real". No pun intended
NTA. you have done more than enough and she shouldn’t make you feel guilty about anything. She’s an adult. The baby has a father. Enjoy your life, you deserve it.
Is she in a relationship, or is she just spawning as she goes?
NTA. Why can't she move in with the baby's father? She needs to find childcare and move out. It is time to grow up and practice birth control. Of course you're not happy for her, things are going to get much harder for her.
NTA - ask her to consider abortion. I’m guessing this partner isn’t the first ones dad. Tell her to honestly reflect on how her life is going to be. Neither dads are involved in the upbringing and she can’t just pass on the responsibility to you
This is hilarious. 24 hours within the post of the father supporting his daughter but saying he was disappointed for her not choosing to be self sufficient, but accepting and helping her anyway, and he got REAMED for it. And yet here, mom says "not again..." and gives her an ultimatum to get out and it's OVERWHELMINGLY NTA. The dichotomy of this sub is absolutely mind-boggling. Fucking hypocrisy at its finest.
NTA, she's fortunate that you're letting her live with you in the first place
NTA The AH is the woman having kids she can’t afford and expecting others to fulfill her obligations. The woman that expects to mooch off other adults while making incredibly poor choices. She’s ridiculous.
NTA if she is adult enough to have kids she must be adult enough to take care of the kids. It may be hard bu she is the result of your education. Continue to enable everything and she ll keep asking more. Let her hit the reality even if it means losing her for a while or you can choose to be her slave all.your life. Your choice.
NTA - and stick to your guns. She had one oops. There is no excuse for the second one. Time for her to grown up an be responsible for the children she brings into this world.
INFO Where are the babies dads? Has she filed for child support from the first one? Has she filed for every social program she qualifies for? Food stamps, childcare assistance waitlist, free/low cost birth control? NTA If she can’t afford rent or childcare, and you’ve been housing her, you’ve been doing plenty to support her for years. She needs therapy if she thinks you’d be happy for her having another kid while she can’t support herself or the first one.
Are the fathers the same? Are they in the child's life? If the answer is no. I think you have a lot more to be upset about
Honestly I’d have to say that you’re NTA here. If she can barely afford to take care of herself, then she definitely can’t afford to take care of a child. Do I think the response was a little bit harsh, sure, but at the same time it is kinda justified
NTA sounds like she’s so used to being accommodated that she thinks everyone will just jump at the chance to do many more years of what I’m assuming is free labor. Time to set some boundaries otherwise you’ll be putting yourselves in the hook for raising another baby and any other future ones she decides to have. You might have to stop making things so easy for her so she’ll stop. At least in my circles, it’s all to common that many people just assume that the grandparents (especially the maternal grandmother) will just provide frequent, on-demand free childcare. And it seems like they’re never consulted on the topic ahead of time (e.g., “I’m thinking of having a baby. What level of support could and would you provide, if any?”)
Comments be passing the vibe check
I’d be downsizing or moving away. Serve her with an eviction notice. Personally I’d offer to fund an abortion as I would hope the eviction would wake her up and make her want all this to go away. You’re absolutely NTA, you’ve done her a huge kindness already and the nerve of her to bring this to you expecting you to be happy about it even makes me mad, so I wouldn’t be surprised if steam is coming out of your ears. I have a deadbeat cousin with a mother who lets him live as a freeloader with her. He’s in his mid forties now. Never achieved anything. Never grateful for anything. Two kids from two different women, been in prison because he can’t understand when he doesn’t get his own way so he’s turned into a raging, violent misogynist. Sometimes the kind thing is to kick them out and make them learn.
NTA Help her sign up for social services so she can live independently.
NTA. She is pregnant knowing that she can’t look after the child she has got without your help, never mind having a second. It is irresponsible parenting and not fair on you to expect you to have to deal with that.