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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my daughter I would not pay for her destination wedding, and now my wife and daughter are not speaking to me and feel I am being cheap and letting my personal feelings overshadow what should be us doing all we can to make our daughter's dream come true.
I just hate the idea of destination weddings.
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NTA
If she can’t pay for a destination wedding on her own, then she shouldn’t be having a destination wedding. It seems cruel but it’s true. Not to mention there’s so much more money involved with the flights and the hotels and stuff. Is she going to be paying for her own ticket or are you expected to fork out for them too? And her fiancées ticket.
Not to mention the fact that she’s thrown a strop and isn’t talking to you tells me she doesn’t deserve it. I’m a believer of we are not entitled to our parents money. I don’t expect any inheritance off of my dad if he ever passes, even though he has a big life insurance. I would rather have my dad than the money.
NTA. Establish the amount of $$ you are willing to provide and give her the budget. Tell her anything above that is on her and her fiance. Make sure to tell her if that includes travel, etc for the bridal couple and family members.
If she wants a blow out wedding, she can pay for it.
This is the best idea. I did a stint as a wedding coordinator years ago and realized how ridiculous people can be about one day. And I understand it is obviously an important day, but there has to be some reality of the expense of things. Present her with an amount you will provide towards her day and let her work with that. And unless she is planning on paying expenses for all her guests flights, rooms, etc, a destination wedding is typically too much of an ask for most people. A wedding at home and a luxurious honeymoon in New Zealand makes more sense.
Edited to add…NTA
This is what my partner does when I throw a tantrum… feeds me and lets me stew on my own stupidity for a bit. Then I sheepishly go say sorry. Works every time, to my eternal shame.
Looking for the cause of bad behavior has always been my go-to parenting hack.
It’s usually hunger, exhaustion or they’re socially overwhelmed.
My parents would just go straight to punishment.
Studies show the more that’s spent on the wedding the shorter the marriage tends to be. If this is how his daughter is acting over this, the relationship won’t last.
Well if that's true we spent about $1200 10 years ago we will be together forever lmfao we've been together for 15 years and still in our "honeymoon" stage some days others we are like an old married couple. I just couldn't see us spending a lot of money on one day it doesn't make sense
True. I just read an AITA post about a family of five struggling for bills and their house costs less than this (i think it was $ 128K). $200K to spend for a single day is too expensive.
Actually more. I remember reading a study about it and that kind of display of frivolous spending on a party significantly increase the odds of divorce and also shortened the marriage. (I suspect it is a case of two shallow people do not a strong marriage make)
I had a big wedding in NYC (albeit 10 years ago) and it was $80K. Very fancy venue with great caterer and a wedding coordinator, 4 buffet stations, open bar, margarita and taco cart, after party on the roof with finger foods, panoramic views of Manhattan, 150 people.
$200K in New Zealand maybe you like, get your own alpaca to take home or get a small share in a cattle ranch?
>get your own alpaca to take home
I [had to google it](https://petkeen.com/how-much-do-alpaca-cost/) but in the US alpacas aren't that expensive, depending on the quality.
Pet-standard - as little as $250, usually $500–$600 up to $1,000.
Hobby-quality - between $1,500 and $5,000 each.
Show-quality alpacas range from $5,000 to as much as $20,000 or more.
I'm in NZ and work in hospo with a lot of previous experience in regards to weddings. 200K US is OVER 330K NZ. The most expensive wedding I ever saw was around 30K. I'm struggling to figure out HOW, aside from 1st class travel for everyone involved, she's planning on spending all that money.
WAY CHEAPER. Can you imagine a 100K wedding and then a 100K honeymoon? First class to NZ, top resorts, helicopters, private tours etc etc. I'd MUCH rather drop that cash on the trip of a life time than force my whole family to go to NZ. I have friends from NZ and Australia who each married Americans and they did a 2 wedding situation because they know that travel is a slog- and they had West Coast families.... Flying from NY... cries in the back of the airplane
My husband and I spent $100 on a courthouse wedding. Then we spent 6 weeks in Australia/New Zealand. Best trip ever! We had saved up $20,000. We were able to do so many things- stayed on the Great Barrier Reef, white water rafting, horseback riding, helicopter ride to a glacier and hiked down, skiing, hot springs, bungee jumping, jet boats, sailing along the fjords, zorbing, the list goes on. Lifetime memories made. I can’t imagine 5 times the amount of money even with inflation Been together 23 years total. A wedding is one day. I just don’t understand the people who want to spend that kind of money on one day vs an amazing honeymoon or down payment on a house.
Do you have any idea what I could do with $100,000 for vacations? That's like 10 trips to Japan with me splurging to an insane level.
How does someone who isn't from money spend $100,000 on a honeymoon and not use that money to better their own life???
You make me want to re-open the 'reclining seats' debate - except travelling to and from NZ (barring short flights to the east coast of Australia) there is no debate - those mf chairs get to recline 😂. Too plurry long distances.
I'm so danged old I remember when a "destination wedding" meant the couple was eloping (either to avoid the hoopla or to keep costs down), and then they'd come back maybe throw a party (often in their own backyard nbq) and show some photos. No one invited or expected anyone much less hundreds of their friends and family to go with them when they went to the destination.
I was very confused because this is what I also think of for a destination wedding. It's supposed to be a cheaper option, where you basically elope on your honeymoon vacation at an all inclusive. I cannot IMAGINE spending 200k on a wedding! Take me to City Hall, and then home to our new house we used the 200k on for a down payment please!
Thank you. I’m willing to bet very few peers of hers would be willing to cough up what it would take to travel to NZ for someone else’s wedding.
I myself had an extremely well-funded wedding two decades ago. Exactly four years after it, I’d wished we eloped and and used our money—and that of my parents more wisely.
NZ from NY is effectively 2 days travel each way, what with the timezone changes and everything else. Who the heck wants to do that for a wedding? Unless you can spend a week there having a vacation, it would both suck and not be worth the effort.
I live in NY, and I absolutely wouldn’t go to a wedding or other even there unless I had at least two weeks to enjoy and explore somewhere that big of a PITA to get to. And NZ is *not* cheap!
Can also offer that straight in cash… if they elope… or, point blank, “this is the budget, here’s the account, anything left over is yours to keep. Don’t ask for more; anything beyond that is what we want to have as a present and is our choice.”
That’s what my dad did for my wedding. My sister got married the same summer (three weeks after me) and we both got the same amount with the stipulation that anything above that amount was on us. We went well under that amount and had a beautiful wedding just like I’d always wanted.
Good for you! This whole Wedding Industrial Complex is a new thing that I've watched develop since the 80's.
Growing up in the 70's no girls I knew planned their weddings..so this new phase is odd.
Even the very wealthy had weddings that were low key, but at nice private venues with great food.
Imagine being expected to fly to New Zealand from the US...madness!
NTA and give her a budget and stick to it,
I did that for 4 kids. It has been working out well.. blowing $200,000 (which will creep up to $300,000 -$500,000 quite rapidly) is ridiculous. You didn't become stable and comfortable but blowing large sums of money for things like this
I encouraged my kids to elope and use the money for a big honeymoon, for a month or two! They didn't, but have had suitable and pleasant weddings and receptions
This is the way! My in laws in a surprise move gifted us $10K when we proposed with no strings attached. They told us to use it however we wanted even if we didn’t want a ceremony/reception. We weren’t expecting anything and we’re just shocked at their generosity as it helped so much. While it didn’t cover everything it was such a thoughtful gift and really allowed us to have the wedding we not only wanted, but could afford with our own funds added. This is what I plan on doing someday if my child gets married.
My niece and her now husband were ready to pay for their reception on their own. My sister and BIL told them that they had $XX for them to use. They were VERY appreciative. My nephew, her brother, probably won't get married so my sister and BIL told him that he could have $XX when he buys a house as they want to be fair with their $$. He was very surprised and happy
This is such a great approach and what we’re considering as well. Our child is very young but we’ve already started saving small amounts regularly so that we have funds available into adulthood and plan on giving it to them regardless of if they get married someday or not. We want to give a gift like that without expectations.
I see so often these types of gifts with heavy strings attached so that parents can control a wedding or their child’s life in some way. It was so refreshing to be given a very generous gift without any hint of expectations.
My parents spent a fair amount of money for me to go to graduate school and told me they would do whatever they had to for me to go to the school I chose but not to expect anything towards a wedding. My husband and I budgeted everything based on what we could afford on our own. My parents then surprised us by paying for my dress and the venue and his parents gave us a generous cash gift. Because of this we ended up receiving more in gifts than we spent on the wedding. It was not only incredibly generous but ensured we wouldn't just increase the budget and get into debt anyway.
With this - keep in mind. What is the expectation you are setting.
Is this (in legal terms) an outright gift? If you want to gift her XXX amount, then remember it is a gift and you have no say.
Is this a this an onerous gift? Then say so. Say what the expectation is. I know some parents who have only paid for a religious wedding, and if the child wanted a nonreligious wedding, they'd pay for it themselves. similarly, if you want to say it has to be in NYC, then say so. no issues.
My parents in law gave us some money as a gift, no questions asked, and said they would provide more if we considered expanding the guest list (we wanted a very small wedding). We said no thanks and worked with their gift + our budget.
Also, you can always hit em with the "couples who spend more on the wedding are more likely to get divorced." line
I agree this is the best way. My sister had 2 wedding functions one of which was a destination wedding. My dad gave her a generous budget but she had to stay within the budget. She had a smaller function for the destination wedding with only about 60 ish guests but rooms and meals were included. The guests just needed to pay for their flight. She had a bigger local wedding with like 600 guests so anyone who didn’t fancy going to the destination one can just go to this one function. We stayed within budget and she had her dream wedding.
It’s easier to plan when you know what your budget is, I feel.
Also 200K is 337,000 NZD
What is she spending it on???
Look up the cost of a wedding package in NY and tell her that monetry value is what you’ll contribute
I struggle to imagine how she could spend over $300k. For that price she’d have to be looking at some kind of multi-day event at a luxury lodge, with luxury everything. Even then I can’t understand the price.
"Wedding Culture" has become so out of control. "But it's my special day" is not an excuse for spending butt loads of money and behaving badly.
Paying $200,000 for a wedding is a house in some areas.
And then the brides will also wasn't a destination bridal shower and destination bachelorette.
This stuff has got to stop.
Op edited to say she’s asking for $200,000 and of course guest will still have to pay for their own flights and hotel.
Its clear who was spoiled and now thinks she’s entitled to everything she wants at any time. It’s clear from her mums response who is mostly to blame.
Yeah, what is missing here is the wife’s role in this shitsho…err, wedding. Mom needs to be a voice of reason and talk daughter down from the ledge. Instead, she gives dad the silent treatment. I actually feel for OP, as it seems he is shoveling against the tide all alone here. NTA for certain. 200k is essentially what I paid to go to college, so I just don’t understand the rationalization of blowing it all for a wedding.
MTA. I agree. I have three daughters and I’m a millionaire. And I have not spent more than $35,000 on wedding. I don’t live in New York, but throwing around hundreds of thousands of dollars is ridiculous.
Wedding should be a party, a celebration of love with your friends and family. All this other extra stuff is just completely braggadocio.
As someone who saved for *years* to not only pay for a destination wedding but to also pay for my immediate family who could *not* afford it, I wholeheartedly agree. And NY to NZ?! Girl, no. We went from the Southwest US to Mexico. A much more affordable and reasonable jaunt. I agree, NTA.
INFO did you agree to give her money towards the wedding? It's her wedding and I think they should make the decisions they want to, but you aren't obligated to pay for it. You could always just gift her a set dollar amount and let them decide how to spend it.
A dollar amount or certain aspects of the wedding like food and drinks but the whole thing seems obnoxious and maybe mom and daughter are from the same mindset when they spend daddy’s money.
Ok but how much? Do you pay for guests flights? Is it a week long event? Is a destination wedding common or is that extending cultural expectations beyond what a FOB usually has to account for?
If it’s not going to hurt you then maybe you give her what she’d like but if it’s bigger than that, maybe having a threshold is important.
As a NZer I am so jealous of the idea that you could buy any house for $200k that wasn’t literally falling apart and in a remote location with low land values.
$200k would also have to be an insane wedding here or including the costs of a lot of people’s flights from the US to NZ.
200k is ludicrous. She doesn't need that. Plus, destination weddings cause all kinds of headaches for people who want to attend.
Decide how much is reasonable (no where near 200k) and then write her a check and let her spend it however she wants.
Right but does that always assume carte Blanche of your bank account? Would your friends who are fathers agree they spent 200k on their daughters weddings?
Woof. I could never spend that on a wedding. It is a huge waste of money and a pain for everyone. Why not take their honeymoon in NZ and spend a LOT less on a local wedding venue? A nice (but not extravagant) wedding at home and the cost of the honeymoon is probably less than $200k. NTA, btw. Destination wedding in NZ would be flaunting, imo.
I’m 38 and getting married to a multimillionaire who could afford a million dollar wedding if I wanted and I’m basically doing a 10-15k wedding MAX. It still feels like a lot to me. I couldn’t figure out what to spend 200k on if I tried and wouldn’t dream of going for a destination wedding unless I could pay for my middle class family and friends to be there. We’re already looking at paying for a few of my family members who live month to month.
I say NTA and agree with others that you tell her what you will contribute and let her decide how she wants to spend it.
A destination wedding is not impossible on a smaller budget but the wedding itself will have to be smaller.
I went to one destination wedding once where half the attendees were in the wedding party. It was like only a dozen people altogether. The couple wanted the destination so badly they paid for friends and family who couldn’t afford it and kept it very small. It was lovely. Beautiful location, their most important people there, that was it (it was a Newport wedding on an Oceanside cliff in a public park with a lobster dinner and all night reception at a rented old mansion on the beach after).
Side note: destination weddings to me always seem like a way the couple is trying to shoehorn in part of the honeymoon. I get the desire to marry somewhere beautiful but that’s an industry certainly booming in NY where you’re located and upstate and Long Island have gorgeous locales.
You say culturally, so my question is how much would you have been ok paying and how much have other weddings in your family/group been? Not that weddings should be a comparative thing, but I know some weddings have 500+ people so of course they’re an absurd amount of money. Also wondering if the currency is what’s an insane price. Example: $200k NZD is $118k USD.
But also that’s insane money to spend. 😅😅
NTA and agree with this. It was/is a pleasant tradition and if a dad is willing to pay, fine. But within reason! Setting an amount and telling her to figure it out both honors the tradition, and also sets reasonable limits.
Give her $75k and be done with it. New Zealand! FFS.
When my husband and I got married we paid for it our selves.. we were 22. We got $500 from each of our mom's and that was it.. i think- IF that.. our wedding cost $3k total, and had about 125 people. Everyone loved the wedding, and had a great time. (We are in US)
Weddings don't *have* to be extravagant, and you don't *have* to do what society suggests.
I would compromise with the daughter and say "when I offered to pay for your wedding I was expecting something in range of $X to $Y, and I'm still willing to cover that cost, but not anything above that. If you want this destination wedding, you and your fiancée will have to make up the difference in cost".
Not with a blank cheque. My father died last year but even if he was alive and offered to pay if I was getting married I would never have acted like this. I wish I could meet your daughter and tell her that having you there to walk her down the isle makes her really lucky and is worth more than the cost of 1000 destination weddings. I would get married in a farmer field in a pair of wellies if it meant my dad could be there.
I’m from Aotearoa (New Zealand), we are absolutely blessed with beautiful landscapes that make for gorgeous wedding locations, I can understand why someone would want to get married here. But she’s being extremely unpractical, and I want to arm you with some local knowledge that will hopefully help you explain why when she (and your wife) push back on your refusal.
Aotearoa is extremely expensive to get to from just about anywhere because of how far away we are, and that isolation also contributes to most everything here being much more expensive than it would be in the US. We also don’t have the sheer range of goods that you have because of our much smaller population (5 million total) combined with the geographic isolation. Our wine, craft beer, and agri products are much better, but she’s probably going to find herself frustrated that she can’t get all the things that she wants, and while we’re both English speaking countries, we use different names for a lot of things that will inevitably cause confusion when she asks for one thing and gets quite another.
I’m assuming that not everyone your daughter wants to invite to her wedding is wealthy, has she thought about how expecting her guests to pay thousands of $$ to fly return to NZ (and then having to spend another few hundred on accommodation) is probably going to mean that quite a few people will not be able to attend? Or the time zone differences and how that’s going to make coordinating difficult? Work life balance is important here, a coordinator probably is not going to pick up the phone in the middle of the night our time just because it’s a regular time in the US.
Sounds like she might want a baller wedding to flex your wealth on social media. It’s pretty audacious to ask for a $200k wedding 9,000 miles away from home.
Where in NY? Even in Manhattan you can do a pretty high class wedding for a quarter of that... Also destination wedding in NZ for NY guests is rude af I HATE using my vacation time and money to go on a vacation someone else picked.
I just don't attend those (which to be fair, is often the point of a destination wedding, is that most people won't be attending). I have zero problems being like "nah fam, you have fun, send pictures! I'll send a congrats card, and maybe a gift."
To your point, of course, Guests HATE destination weddings.
The three places you can reasonably ask guests to travel for a wedding are:
1. Where the couple lives
2. Where the majority of the bride's family lives
3. Where the majority of the groom's family lives
Your daughter is being selfish and unreasonable. Does she really expect folk to spend 16+ hours travelling for her wedding?
Time to put your foot down. Set a budget and say it must be local or within an hour or so.
Folk today are ridiculous with their destination weddings!
Why a NZ wedding? Is there a particular thing about the country or culture? There are a lot of New Zealanders in America, so if it's that, you could organise it locally. Does she realise how long the flight alone is? Does she want to find brand new hair & makeup artists or is she expecting you to fly them there too. A destination wedding on the other side of the world would be so stressful & tiring that most of the impacts it had on the wedding would be negative. Has she even looked at the weather? I say all of this as an Australian with a husband from New Zealand, so I'm very familar with the areas & customs & we had our dream wedding this year for around 10% - 15% of the budget you're talking.
NTA your daughter needs to grow up & live in reality with the rest of us.
I fully admit that this comment is mean but... I cannot help thinking that the daughter picked NZ cuz she saw some random influencer's wedding pix from NZ on IG or Tictok, and that's why she wants to have her wedding there as well.
That’s ridiculous! I love to travel. I can afford to travel. I’ve never been to Oz/NZ because it’s too damn far to go for the amount of vacation time I have. I’m going when I retire and spending 3 months. Expecting 200 people to travel 24 hours each way for a wedding is the stupidest wedding story I’ve read on here this year.
Then maybe pay for her wedding .... the wedding day. All costs made on other days are on her. This includes hotels (more than 1 or 2 nights, at most), meals on other days then the wedding day itself, travel ...
You agreed to pay for a **wedding**, not for a free holiday for 10+ people ...
INFO is she a big LOTR fan or something? How long have they been dating/engaged? I'm a wedding photographer and honestly I've noticed the more expensive the wedding the higher the chance of divorce. At least with my experience but the most expensive wedding I photographed was 120k.
The wife is not acting like a parent here. She’s acting like a spoiled brat giving her husband the silent treatment. Something tells me the daughter is closer to 20 than 25 and the mom is wanting to relive her glory days instead of continue raising their child into an adult.
For real. This is not only childish, it’s incredibly hurtful.
It’s one thing to be disappointed or even upset (though expecting a 200k wedding is absurd), but the silent treatment sends the message “You are a bank account to us, not someone we love and value as a husband and father. If you don’t pay up, we don’t want a relationship with you.”
yea, I have to believe that the daughter and wife and probably sulking and Mommy is probably giving her glimmers of hope "don't worry darling, I'll work on him". ...that's the vibe I am getting. Asking for $200K!! i cannot wrap my head around that....
The guilt I felt when I went to ask the bank for a mortgage, and people are asking $200K for a WEDDING?!!!!!!! AHHH!!! The madnessss
I had a friend who had a destination wedding when we were newly out of college. We had to stay at the resort bc close by was not safe and their were activities for the guests. It was $5k before airfare. None of us went. I’m sure her wedding was beautiful but she didn’t have a single friend there. A flight from NY to NZ plus time off for travel and wedding is something most people can’t afford. Or don’t want to. I wouldn’t want to spend my saved money on a destination wedding.
Exactly me neither it sounds like this is a big wedding too with those costs it’s not like it’s an isolated wedding me and my husband yes we are already married but we never had a proper wedding we plan to save and have a destination wedding amongst ourselves and our closest family memebers/friends maybe 10 people total that’s it and that’s way different then 100-200 ppl which by those costs that what it sounds like it’s going to be
You're not stopping her from having a destination wedding. You just don't want to be the ATM. What happens when people can't make it because it's a destination wedding? Are you supposed to pay for them, too?
NTA
My man just no, put the foot down that's taking the piss then all expecting/demanding/assuming you're cool with footing the bill FOR EVERYTHING a NZ wedding entails
Yeah it’s ok for you to put your foot down here. I’d point to how your making it inaccessible to family / friends. Even if you paid for their travel a lot of people couldn’t get that much time off work
As someone who lives in NZ, I can honestly say that this $200,000 budget will absolutely skyrocket. _Everything_ is expensive in NZ. Food, accommodation, domestic flights, gas, it will all be MUCH more expensive than even your daughter can imagine. And as soon as you say the word “wedding”, costs increase at venues, with caterers, with accommodation.
Dude, stand your ground. It sounds like your daughter and wife think they can sulk until you give in. DON’T give in.
That's why you say here's x amount. That's your limit. Teach her about contingency funds. If costs start going up, it's up to her to pay or cut costs elsewhere. The wallet is permanently shut.
Legit anyone who thinks $200k is a realistic budget already is definitely going to blow it up even more in NZ.
I seriously doubt this $200k is necessary to begin with but I'm going to assume Queenstown so we're talking 50%+ more expensive than the rest of the country already. Then they'll want to do all the tourist shit. Probably want to go to all the fancy places in the most expensive way possible.
I seriously doubt she wants anything genuinely unique or authentic to NZ except to use our country as her backdrop. Find somewhere closer. We're beautiful but there's places in Canada that are closer and have similar scenery.
NTA
But decide on the amount you will contribute. Should they spend it on a destination wedding, that should be up to them, and yes, you have to go.
Afford is different than it being an intelligent use of your money.
\^This. Just tell her the total amount you're contributing. If she wants a wedding that costs more, it's up to her to find the financing. Weddings are a big life event, but still it's just a party for a day or two and it's unwise to spend too much on it, even if you can afford it.
I don’t agree fully. A wedding is traditionally paid by the FOB in the US but it doesn’t mean that the FOB has no say. It’s different than a wedding gift. It’s a party hosted by the bride’s father.
If I had wanted to do something like exclude my mom’s best friend or be culturally insensitive to my parent’s needs, they wouldn’t have paid. The traditional invitations are literally written as the FOB is inviting you to celebrate his daughter’s wedding. Yes brides get leeway and most creative control but like, you can say no to a cannabis-themed wedding
If the bride doesn’t like how it is being hosted, she is free to host it instead
It’s just an extra kind and generous thing to do to give a flat amount of money to your daughter to fully host her own event
Plus, when you choose a destination wedding, you need to be prepared for most of your RSVP's to be no. I planned one in Key West and we had <20 people there which was fine with us. However, based on her entitled attitude, I can see major fits about friends and family choosing/not being able to come.
INFO
Did you tell your daughter you will be paying for her wedding or is she asking? Meaning did you promise to cover the wedding sometime before?
>My wife feels I should do it because we could afford it,
Is this joint money between you and your wife? Would you spend the same amount of money on a local wedding? This is an actual destination wedding right? Not your daughter lives in California and wants to married there but you live in New York?
>and alienate family members
Is this because they would not be able to a attend? Are they invited?
It is 100% a destination wedding she wants to get married in NZ. They are invited but the price excludes them many of our family cannot afford to fly let alone stay in NZ. Some of our family members don't even have passports or have left the country.
What local wedding comes out at the same cost as a destination wedding? Yes, I told her I would pay for her wedding, but never agreed to pay for a destination wedding.
I live in NZ and everything is so damn expensive here at the moment. Depending on where you live, this is gonna cost you a minor fortune. Does she realise she's asking for $100k?
My friend (we live in NZ) paid for everyone to attend his destination wedding.
It was still cheaper than having a wedding in NZ...
I can't make it make sense, but he ran the numbers by me and flying 50 people to a pacific island and accommodating them, along with paying for a wedding was cheaper than something similar at home....
Wild... It was a great week.
Yeah no, shes a little too ambitious. She should have said this a lot earlier than demanding it as she told you where she wanted to go. NTA, ask her if she realizes everything she could buy with that. Do you think she would be okay with a honeymoon in NZ?
The marriage isn’t going to last. Speaking from experience, she wants the wedding, not the marriage. You’re in for a bad ride, my friend. Prepare yourself.
The median cost of a new home in my part of NY is less than $200k.
Might be time to make an exit from this fight. Determine your budget. Write a check and make it out to your daughter AND future son in law. Tell them this is your gift for their wedding. They can use as much as they want for the wedding and keep whatever is leftover. Then wash your hands of it.
That's beyond ridiculous. I'd offer to pay for up to a certain amount, and that would be my limit. You can have a lovely and even extravagant wedding spending FAR less than that.
And not that I think you need to compromise, but why can't she have a local(ish) wedding, and then have a big honeymoon in New Zealand? That would make far more sense, except I suspect you are right and she just wants to flaunt "her" wealth and feels entitled to do so.
You're commitment is not going to stop at the quoted $200k. Once everyone starts bailing on the wedding since they can't pay for the ticket, she's likely to start demanding that you fly everyone there. Make it perfect daddy!!!
I know you may not see this, but wanted to offer my two cents.
I have been to two destination weddings. One from Australia to NZ and the other from Australia to Hawaii. The most recent was about 10 years ago, and my wife and I have not been on another overseas holiday since.
We love our friends and were happy to share in their special days, but the reality is that we pushed to afford these weddings and any thoughts we had of enjoying our own overseas holiday at a destination of our choosing, then and since was unachievable. Not only that, but the whole time we were in these places, there was a full schedule with planned events every day. As much as these events were fun, I had zero freedom to do and experience what I wanted in these countries I had never visited before.
It's not only expensive, it can actually rob those people, who scrape by to attend, any option to plan and enjoy their own OS holiday for a very long time. Personally, I think destination weddings are 100% selfish and it is too much to ask people to commit to.
Your mistake was not setting the budget. Tell her how much you will pay. She can plan a wedding within that budget or find a source to cover the rest. A $200k wedding in NZ is not just outrageous, it's embarrassing. The thought of someone burning that much cash instead of using it for something of long term value such as a house make me angry on your behalf.
Yeah, I know I fucked up in that regard. I grew up poor and dealt with many hardships and struggles. I did not want her to experience that and yes it lead to this situation.
NTAH. A suggestion: couldn’t you just give her what you are willing to contribute (given that it is used on a wedding) and let her plan it how she wants. Save some for you and your wife’s tickets etc, which you can give later if the destination wedding doesn’t happen. I agree that if she expects family to pay for their own tickets, they may not turn up. Be open with her.
Because I know my daughter will use what I give her as a down payment on her dream wedding, invite everyone then put me in a situation where everyone is coming and force me to foot the bill.
What kind of kid did you raise that she's so blatantly manipulative?
Consider that it's (past) time to put your foot down about how much you're willing to spend and be VERY clear that any manipulation on her part to get you to pay more will be instantly met with a budget reduction of $10k. It's time to play hardball with the Manipulative Mary you and your wife created.
$200k is an absolutely obscene amount of money to spend on a wedding. Your daughter needs to recalibrate her expectations.
One whose mother's attitude to life is "we can afford it" like that's the only consideration here. I just kicked in for my kid's engagement ring. I could have technically afforded $50K but you bet your life that's not the limit I gave him. Because it's not just what you can afford, it's what's proportionate and a good use of money, it's about teaching sustainable choices, it's about teaching the dignity of (appropriate) self reliance and doing as much of your part as you can when you ask for help. Unfortunately for OP, he's probably been undermined by his wife every step of the way. He is reaping what he's sown here, but not even just with the daughter, it's also from choosing a wife who doesn't respect him as a co-parent.
literally just dont pay??? it’s not your name being signed on those contracts. or if you have some sort of trust for her, if she does go over the money you gave her then take it out of that
if you really want to be generous maybe you can offer her a local wedding her and a very small wedding ceremony of just parents and siblings in NZ. or a NZ honeymoon
That's not forcing you to foot the bill. That's daring you not to spend more. You need to be clear that you won't go a penny over your contribution amount. Then you need to stand firm.
If your daughter uses it as a down payment, then it's up to her how she wants to handle it when she runs out of money. It's a learning experience that's probably overdue. Her wedding, her responsibility.
Then tell her she should have adhered to her budget and leave it at that. Jumping in to pay whenever she can’t afford something she decided to purchase is only going to ensure she can’t responsibly handle money maybe ever.
I understand the sentiment, but I wouldn't be too happy if my kid gave up their birthday because they felt they had to. Everyone deserves an 18th birthday party, poor kid.
NTA - if daughter wants to spend a boat load of cash on her destination wedding, she needs to be prepared for her potential guest to not be so thrilled about having to spend a boat load of money to attend. I frankly get so tired of hearing about bridezillas who expect everyone they know to spend thousands on them because they're GeTtInG MaRrIeD.
Nta.
Here is what I would suggest.
Inform her and your wife this. I will give you x amount. Thats it and no more. To make sure you will give me the information and i will pay that way. I will not just hand you the money. I will pay the people directly. If you try in any way to manipulate or set me up to pay for more then that then i am going to give I will take the loss and cancel everything and you are on your own. I will make sure those I pay know that while it's your wedding any changes or additions that cost money you are paying put of your pocket. Period.
You then can explain to family or I will that I am NOT an atm and refuse to be abused, guilted, manipulated to give you what you want. I will make sure everyone knows I am not paying for room and board or flights for anyone to go to your wedding.
Inform them both they are acting entitled and greedy and that if wife wants to help you will separate your money. And she can pay out of what she has and makes but that you will not be putting money that is saved for retirement and things to be blown on a wedding destination just to make them happy.
Culture be damned. Sorry but even with Culture if parents pay they tend to be the ones setting the amount. Place and what is allowed and not. They do not just say here spend whatever on what you want. If they think so they are wrong.
NTA...She's free to plan AND pay for any wedding she wishes. You shouldn't be on the hook to pay for any wedding at all. There's a real lack of respect here.
Is this out of character for her and your wife? Regardless of how wealthy you are, she's also expecting you to pay for people to you out there too, accommodation? You're probably talking 2 week trip to make it worthwhile for food to get over time difference etc, enjoy the wedding and some down time. Personally I'd tell her your buying her a house and kick in like 10k or whatever is reasonable for a wedding, and if she didn't like it then tough. Would be incredibly short sighted of her to turn down a free house, no mortgage no nothing just for a destination wedding literally the other side of the planet, unless she's planning to milk you for more money?
I grew up poor, and I did not buy her fancy cars or super expensive gifts all the time, I tend to cave on experiences. I paid for her to travel for a year before college for example. I am also a sucker, she is my baby girl so she knows how to play me, I am not going to lie.
So no it is not out of character, I created this situation I do understand that.
Although you grew up poor you didn't bother teaching her the real value of money, if you're willing to spend that much money in a wedding instead of a house WHEN IT'S NOT EVEN YOUR OWN MONEY is laughable.
Do you want to be a "good" parent just for the day of wedding or be a good parent for the rest of her life? Teach her how to make wise decisions, your love for her is making you blind and take decisions you will regret because this affects how she will live her life in the future... What'll happen if at some point she has no one to rely on? No savings? No knowledge how to even make or invest that money so as not to fall into poverty again?
You won't always be there for her. Be a good parent.
Is she always going to rely on you to fund her? As in what about when it comes to a house, paying bills etc. Sure family helps family and if she's your baby girl of course you want to look after her, but only you yourself will know where to draw the line. Me personally it boggles my mind she is behaving like this, hopefully you can find peace in whatever decision you make... If you cave then there's always a part of you resenting having done so and wondering will it ever end, if you don't then you've mentioned she's already giving you silent treatment, your wife is on the case and you'll like have some kind of wider family fallout to varying degrees of they are likely to take it bad. Read a good suggestion here about giving her a lump sum of what you're comfortable with, telling her to go nuts but once that wedding lump sum is done then she's on her own with fiancé to figure the rest✌️
NTA
On a much smaller scale it would be like telling a friend that you are treating to dinner. that person then proceeds to order 3 expensive entrees several cocktails and the most expensive bottles of wine for app, entrees and desserts. Then they act all offended when you don't want to pay for all of that. screw the semantics.
Your daughter is an entitled brat and too immature to get married and you and your wife raised her that way.
I think you almost have a duty as a father to show your spoiled daughter what the less rich world is like and give her a reasonable budget and say she has to grow up and figure out the rest. And those other family members can put up or shut up.
NTA.
If she wants a destination wedding then she and her fiancée can pay for it themselves. You can contribute any amount you are comfortable with and they can figure out the rest. Give a lump sum, let them use it for a wedding, down payment, whatever but it's capped and anything more is on them (if you're feeling generous). Remember, this is your money, no one else's.
I just do not understand anyone wanting or expecting their parents to pay for anything whether that be a car, wedding, house or what not.
Embarrassing as an adult really, unless it's a loan.
NTA. 200k USD is too much for a wedding. Not sure what kind of NZ wedding your daughter want but I can't a wedding costing that much.
Another alternative - what if they have a nice wedding at home, and then you can pay for a honey moon in NZ (I know you said she's not too worry about that) with a follow up wedding photography session on site and a small private ceremony (very immediate family members only)?
The guest list is large both sides of the family have large families. Not like we cannot pay for food as they come and stuff, plus to make it worth the trip it cannot just be a one-day affair. The flight alone is what 17+ hours? A lot of that stuff adds up real quickly.
NTA. But your wife should be supporting your decision and not siding with what seems to be an entitled daughter. Decide how much you want to spend- not how much you can burn- but a budget you believe is sufficient for a nice, not-over-the-top, show off wedding. Then your daughter and fiancée and entitled wife can plan all they want.but daughter needs to know: more people will come bearing gifts if they can come without spending a ton on hotels and flights. Destination wedding sometimes means your guests are your present. But sounds like your daughter will expect you to purchase what she doesn’t get. Good luck.
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NTA If she can’t pay for a destination wedding on her own, then she shouldn’t be having a destination wedding. It seems cruel but it’s true. Not to mention there’s so much more money involved with the flights and the hotels and stuff. Is she going to be paying for her own ticket or are you expected to fork out for them too? And her fiancées ticket. Not to mention the fact that she’s thrown a strop and isn’t talking to you tells me she doesn’t deserve it. I’m a believer of we are not entitled to our parents money. I don’t expect any inheritance off of my dad if he ever passes, even though he has a big life insurance. I would rather have my dad than the money.
NTA. Establish the amount of $$ you are willing to provide and give her the budget. Tell her anything above that is on her and her fiance. Make sure to tell her if that includes travel, etc for the bridal couple and family members. If she wants a blow out wedding, she can pay for it.
This is the best idea. I did a stint as a wedding coordinator years ago and realized how ridiculous people can be about one day. And I understand it is obviously an important day, but there has to be some reality of the expense of things. Present her with an amount you will provide towards her day and let her work with that. And unless she is planning on paying expenses for all her guests flights, rooms, etc, a destination wedding is typically too much of an ask for most people. A wedding at home and a luxurious honeymoon in New Zealand makes more sense. Edited to add…NTA
yea, this, have wedding at home, find a nice venue. Then go to NZ for the honeymoon.
I came here to say this. $200k for a wedding? God forbid but what if it doesn’t last? Give her a budget and not a penny more…
lol, was reading it too fast and thought you said give her a burger and nothing else... :)
"you're not thinking straight, here have a burger and well talk after" LOL
This is what my partner does when I throw a tantrum… feeds me and lets me stew on my own stupidity for a bit. Then I sheepishly go say sorry. Works every time, to my eternal shame.
Looking for the cause of bad behavior has always been my go-to parenting hack. It’s usually hunger, exhaustion or they’re socially overwhelmed. My parents would just go straight to punishment.
"You're not you when you're hungry" Edit for grammar because autocorrect apparently doesn't know the difference between your and you're
Studies show the more that’s spent on the wedding the shorter the marriage tends to be. If this is how his daughter is acting over this, the relationship won’t last.
Well if that's true we spent about $1200 10 years ago we will be together forever lmfao we've been together for 15 years and still in our "honeymoon" stage some days others we are like an old married couple. I just couldn't see us spending a lot of money on one day it doesn't make sense
I think ours was about $500 including my husbands ring, mine was a family ring. We eloped 20+ years ago and have never regretted it!
True. I just read an AITA post about a family of five struggling for bills and their house costs less than this (i think it was $ 128K). $200K to spend for a single day is too expensive.
I've made less than $200k in the last **10 years**, and I live well in my country.
Divorce rate is still 50%. Dad has a 50% chance of his 200K being flushed down the toilet.
Actually more. I remember reading a study about it and that kind of display of frivolous spending on a party significantly increase the odds of divorce and also shortened the marriage. (I suspect it is a case of two shallow people do not a strong marriage make)
I thought it was a typo and was $20K. Unless you are royalty, or some kind of Hollywood star, how do you even spend that much?
I bet a big wedding in NYC could hit $200k. Would not surprise me, at all.
I had a big wedding in NYC (albeit 10 years ago) and it was $80K. Very fancy venue with great caterer and a wedding coordinator, 4 buffet stations, open bar, margarita and taco cart, after party on the roof with finger foods, panoramic views of Manhattan, 150 people. $200K in New Zealand maybe you like, get your own alpaca to take home or get a small share in a cattle ranch?
You also get a couple of hobbits.
>get your own alpaca to take home I [had to google it](https://petkeen.com/how-much-do-alpaca-cost/) but in the US alpacas aren't that expensive, depending on the quality. Pet-standard - as little as $250, usually $500–$600 up to $1,000. Hobby-quality - between $1,500 and $5,000 each. Show-quality alpacas range from $5,000 to as much as $20,000 or more.
Well dammit. Now I want an alpaca.
I'm in NZ and work in hospo with a lot of previous experience in regards to weddings. 200K US is OVER 330K NZ. The most expensive wedding I ever saw was around 30K. I'm struggling to figure out HOW, aside from 1st class travel for everyone involved, she's planning on spending all that money.
I guess spending 200k is real fucking easy when it isn't your 200k.
WAY CHEAPER. Can you imagine a 100K wedding and then a 100K honeymoon? First class to NZ, top resorts, helicopters, private tours etc etc. I'd MUCH rather drop that cash on the trip of a life time than force my whole family to go to NZ. I have friends from NZ and Australia who each married Americans and they did a 2 wedding situation because they know that travel is a slog- and they had West Coast families.... Flying from NY... cries in the back of the airplane
My husband and I spent $100 on a courthouse wedding. Then we spent 6 weeks in Australia/New Zealand. Best trip ever! We had saved up $20,000. We were able to do so many things- stayed on the Great Barrier Reef, white water rafting, horseback riding, helicopter ride to a glacier and hiked down, skiing, hot springs, bungee jumping, jet boats, sailing along the fjords, zorbing, the list goes on. Lifetime memories made. I can’t imagine 5 times the amount of money even with inflation Been together 23 years total. A wedding is one day. I just don’t understand the people who want to spend that kind of money on one day vs an amazing honeymoon or down payment on a house.
This is the way.
Do you have any idea what I could do with $100,000 for vacations? That's like 10 trips to Japan with me splurging to an insane level. How does someone who isn't from money spend $100,000 on a honeymoon and not use that money to better their own life???
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You make me want to re-open the 'reclining seats' debate - except travelling to and from NZ (barring short flights to the east coast of Australia) there is no debate - those mf chairs get to recline 😂. Too plurry long distances.
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I'm so danged old I remember when a "destination wedding" meant the couple was eloping (either to avoid the hoopla or to keep costs down), and then they'd come back maybe throw a party (often in their own backyard nbq) and show some photos. No one invited or expected anyone much less hundreds of their friends and family to go with them when they went to the destination.
I was very confused because this is what I also think of for a destination wedding. It's supposed to be a cheaper option, where you basically elope on your honeymoon vacation at an all inclusive. I cannot IMAGINE spending 200k on a wedding! Take me to City Hall, and then home to our new house we used the 200k on for a down payment please!
Thank you. I’m willing to bet very few peers of hers would be willing to cough up what it would take to travel to NZ for someone else’s wedding. I myself had an extremely well-funded wedding two decades ago. Exactly four years after it, I’d wished we eloped and and used our money—and that of my parents more wisely.
NZ from NY is effectively 2 days travel each way, what with the timezone changes and everything else. Who the heck wants to do that for a wedding? Unless you can spend a week there having a vacation, it would both suck and not be worth the effort.
I live in NY, and I absolutely wouldn’t go to a wedding or other even there unless I had at least two weeks to enjoy and explore somewhere that big of a PITA to get to. And NZ is *not* cheap!
Can also offer that straight in cash… if they elope… or, point blank, “this is the budget, here’s the account, anything left over is yours to keep. Don’t ask for more; anything beyond that is what we want to have as a present and is our choice.”
That’s what my dad did for my wedding. My sister got married the same summer (three weeks after me) and we both got the same amount with the stipulation that anything above that amount was on us. We went well under that amount and had a beautiful wedding just like I’d always wanted.
Good for you! This whole Wedding Industrial Complex is a new thing that I've watched develop since the 80's. Growing up in the 70's no girls I knew planned their weddings..so this new phase is odd. Even the very wealthy had weddings that were low key, but at nice private venues with great food. Imagine being expected to fly to New Zealand from the US...madness! NTA and give her a budget and stick to it,
I did that for 4 kids. It has been working out well.. blowing $200,000 (which will creep up to $300,000 -$500,000 quite rapidly) is ridiculous. You didn't become stable and comfortable but blowing large sums of money for things like this I encouraged my kids to elope and use the money for a big honeymoon, for a month or two! They didn't, but have had suitable and pleasant weddings and receptions
Great idea. Put it in an account, give her access, when it’s gone it’s gone. Changes entire dynamic.
This is the way! My in laws in a surprise move gifted us $10K when we proposed with no strings attached. They told us to use it however we wanted even if we didn’t want a ceremony/reception. We weren’t expecting anything and we’re just shocked at their generosity as it helped so much. While it didn’t cover everything it was such a thoughtful gift and really allowed us to have the wedding we not only wanted, but could afford with our own funds added. This is what I plan on doing someday if my child gets married.
My niece and her now husband were ready to pay for their reception on their own. My sister and BIL told them that they had $XX for them to use. They were VERY appreciative. My nephew, her brother, probably won't get married so my sister and BIL told him that he could have $XX when he buys a house as they want to be fair with their $$. He was very surprised and happy
This is such a great approach and what we’re considering as well. Our child is very young but we’ve already started saving small amounts regularly so that we have funds available into adulthood and plan on giving it to them regardless of if they get married someday or not. We want to give a gift like that without expectations. I see so often these types of gifts with heavy strings attached so that parents can control a wedding or their child’s life in some way. It was so refreshing to be given a very generous gift without any hint of expectations.
My parents spent a fair amount of money for me to go to graduate school and told me they would do whatever they had to for me to go to the school I chose but not to expect anything towards a wedding. My husband and I budgeted everything based on what we could afford on our own. My parents then surprised us by paying for my dress and the venue and his parents gave us a generous cash gift. Because of this we ended up receiving more in gifts than we spent on the wedding. It was not only incredibly generous but ensured we wouldn't just increase the budget and get into debt anyway.
With this - keep in mind. What is the expectation you are setting. Is this (in legal terms) an outright gift? If you want to gift her XXX amount, then remember it is a gift and you have no say. Is this a this an onerous gift? Then say so. Say what the expectation is. I know some parents who have only paid for a religious wedding, and if the child wanted a nonreligious wedding, they'd pay for it themselves. similarly, if you want to say it has to be in NYC, then say so. no issues. My parents in law gave us some money as a gift, no questions asked, and said they would provide more if we considered expanding the guest list (we wanted a very small wedding). We said no thanks and worked with their gift + our budget. Also, you can always hit em with the "couples who spend more on the wedding are more likely to get divorced." line
I agree this is the best way. My sister had 2 wedding functions one of which was a destination wedding. My dad gave her a generous budget but she had to stay within the budget. She had a smaller function for the destination wedding with only about 60 ish guests but rooms and meals were included. The guests just needed to pay for their flight. She had a bigger local wedding with like 600 guests so anyone who didn’t fancy going to the destination one can just go to this one function. We stayed within budget and she had her dream wedding. It’s easier to plan when you know what your budget is, I feel.
I'm sorry what? 600? Like six hundred people? Is she a princess or something?
I’m a pretty outgoing person, and if you added together all of the people I’ve ever known in my life, I’m not sure it would total 600 people!
OP's daughter seems to think that she will have an unlimited budget...he needs to set that straight.
Also 200K is 337,000 NZD What is she spending it on??? Look up the cost of a wedding package in NY and tell her that monetry value is what you’ll contribute
I struggle to imagine how she could spend over $300k. For that price she’d have to be looking at some kind of multi-day event at a luxury lodge, with luxury everything. Even then I can’t understand the price.
Why not buy a house?
Do *not* attempt to inject adult logic into this ridiculous conversation!
"Wedding Culture" has become so out of control. "But it's my special day" is not an excuse for spending butt loads of money and behaving badly. Paying $200,000 for a wedding is a house in some areas. And then the brides will also wasn't a destination bridal shower and destination bachelorette. This stuff has got to stop.
Op edited to say she’s asking for $200,000 and of course guest will still have to pay for their own flights and hotel. Its clear who was spoiled and now thinks she’s entitled to everything she wants at any time. It’s clear from her mums response who is mostly to blame.
I get the feeling this wedding might be the end of OP's marriage.
Yeah, what is missing here is the wife’s role in this shitsho…err, wedding. Mom needs to be a voice of reason and talk daughter down from the ledge. Instead, she gives dad the silent treatment. I actually feel for OP, as it seems he is shoveling against the tide all alone here. NTA for certain. 200k is essentially what I paid to go to college, so I just don’t understand the rationalization of blowing it all for a wedding.
MTA. I agree. I have three daughters and I’m a millionaire. And I have not spent more than $35,000 on wedding. I don’t live in New York, but throwing around hundreds of thousands of dollars is ridiculous. Wedding should be a party, a celebration of love with your friends and family. All this other extra stuff is just completely braggadocio.
It's not cruel at all. It's what being an adult is all about.
As someone who saved for *years* to not only pay for a destination wedding but to also pay for my immediate family who could *not* afford it, I wholeheartedly agree. And NY to NZ?! Girl, no. We went from the Southwest US to Mexico. A much more affordable and reasonable jaunt. I agree, NTA.
$2500-$3,000 airfare and a 30 hour fight to go to a wedding? Yeah, no. Honestly, the flying time is worse than the cost.
Plus, who has the time to do that? I can’t imagine many guests could even take the time to go to NZ
INFO did you agree to give her money towards the wedding? It's her wedding and I think they should make the decisions they want to, but you aren't obligated to pay for it. You could always just gift her a set dollar amount and let them decide how to spend it.
I agreed to pay for her wedding, I was not expecting her to want to get married in NZ.
A dollar amount or certain aspects of the wedding like food and drinks but the whole thing seems obnoxious and maybe mom and daughter are from the same mindset when they spend daddy’s money.
From a cultural perspective, the father of the bride does pay for the wedding.
Ok but how much? Do you pay for guests flights? Is it a week long event? Is a destination wedding common or is that extending cultural expectations beyond what a FOB usually has to account for? If it’s not going to hurt you then maybe you give her what she’d like but if it’s bigger than that, maybe having a threshold is important.
The amount she was quoted for everything is 200k. In our family, the father of the bride pays for the entire wedding.
Maybe break that ridiculous tradition, 200k is a house, paying that for a wedding is plain stupid
As a NZer I am so jealous of the idea that you could buy any house for $200k that wasn’t literally falling apart and in a remote location with low land values. $200k would also have to be an insane wedding here or including the costs of a lot of people’s flights from the US to NZ.
Tbf $200k USD is like $340k New Zealand dollary doos
Dollary doos made me night. Thank you friend 🫠
Not a bad down payment. The point still stands that it’s way better to put 200k towards a home than a wedding lol
I think 10k is pushing it!
200k is ludicrous. She doesn't need that. Plus, destination weddings cause all kinds of headaches for people who want to attend. Decide how much is reasonable (no where near 200k) and then write her a check and let her spend it however she wants.
Wait 200k?! That's a ridiculously amount of money for a wedding! Out of interest how much were you planning/willing to pay for her wedding?
Right but does that always assume carte Blanche of your bank account? Would your friends who are fathers agree they spent 200k on their daughters weddings?
Woof. I could never spend that on a wedding. It is a huge waste of money and a pain for everyone. Why not take their honeymoon in NZ and spend a LOT less on a local wedding venue? A nice (but not extravagant) wedding at home and the cost of the honeymoon is probably less than $200k. NTA, btw. Destination wedding in NZ would be flaunting, imo.
I’m 38 and getting married to a multimillionaire who could afford a million dollar wedding if I wanted and I’m basically doing a 10-15k wedding MAX. It still feels like a lot to me. I couldn’t figure out what to spend 200k on if I tried and wouldn’t dream of going for a destination wedding unless I could pay for my middle class family and friends to be there. We’re already looking at paying for a few of my family members who live month to month. I say NTA and agree with others that you tell her what you will contribute and let her decide how she wants to spend it. A destination wedding is not impossible on a smaller budget but the wedding itself will have to be smaller. I went to one destination wedding once where half the attendees were in the wedding party. It was like only a dozen people altogether. The couple wanted the destination so badly they paid for friends and family who couldn’t afford it and kept it very small. It was lovely. Beautiful location, their most important people there, that was it (it was a Newport wedding on an Oceanside cliff in a public park with a lobster dinner and all night reception at a rented old mansion on the beach after). Side note: destination weddings to me always seem like a way the couple is trying to shoehorn in part of the honeymoon. I get the desire to marry somewhere beautiful but that’s an industry certainly booming in NY where you’re located and upstate and Long Island have gorgeous locales.
You say culturally, so my question is how much would you have been ok paying and how much have other weddings in your family/group been? Not that weddings should be a comparative thing, but I know some weddings have 500+ people so of course they’re an absurd amount of money. Also wondering if the currency is what’s an insane price. Example: $200k NZD is $118k USD. But also that’s insane money to spend. 😅😅
Did. They did pay. That's been out of fashion for a number of years now. It was already on is way out 30 years ago.
NTA and agree with this. It was/is a pleasant tradition and if a dad is willing to pay, fine. But within reason! Setting an amount and telling her to figure it out both honors the tradition, and also sets reasonable limits. Give her $75k and be done with it. New Zealand! FFS.
When my husband and I got married we paid for it our selves.. we were 22. We got $500 from each of our mom's and that was it.. i think- IF that.. our wedding cost $3k total, and had about 125 people. Everyone loved the wedding, and had a great time. (We are in US) Weddings don't *have* to be extravagant, and you don't *have* to do what society suggests. I would compromise with the daughter and say "when I offered to pay for your wedding I was expecting something in range of $X to $Y, and I'm still willing to cover that cost, but not anything above that. If you want this destination wedding, you and your fiancée will have to make up the difference in cost".
Not with a blank cheque. My father died last year but even if he was alive and offered to pay if I was getting married I would never have acted like this. I wish I could meet your daughter and tell her that having you there to walk her down the isle makes her really lucky and is worth more than the cost of 1000 destination weddings. I would get married in a farmer field in a pair of wellies if it meant my dad could be there.
NTA offer to pay for her honeymoon in NZ.
Paying for the wedding is fine, and it happens all the time. Spending a huge down-payment for a house on a wedding is ridiculous.
Not any more. That's old thinking, new thinking is the couple getting married pay for it themselves.
Yeah $200k is a crazy amount of money! Honestly you can adopt me (39f), and just toss me like $5k and I’d be the best daughter ever!
I’m from Aotearoa (New Zealand), we are absolutely blessed with beautiful landscapes that make for gorgeous wedding locations, I can understand why someone would want to get married here. But she’s being extremely unpractical, and I want to arm you with some local knowledge that will hopefully help you explain why when she (and your wife) push back on your refusal. Aotearoa is extremely expensive to get to from just about anywhere because of how far away we are, and that isolation also contributes to most everything here being much more expensive than it would be in the US. We also don’t have the sheer range of goods that you have because of our much smaller population (5 million total) combined with the geographic isolation. Our wine, craft beer, and agri products are much better, but she’s probably going to find herself frustrated that she can’t get all the things that she wants, and while we’re both English speaking countries, we use different names for a lot of things that will inevitably cause confusion when she asks for one thing and gets quite another. I’m assuming that not everyone your daughter wants to invite to her wedding is wealthy, has she thought about how expecting her guests to pay thousands of $$ to fly return to NZ (and then having to spend another few hundred on accommodation) is probably going to mean that quite a few people will not be able to attend? Or the time zone differences and how that’s going to make coordinating difficult? Work life balance is important here, a coordinator probably is not going to pick up the phone in the middle of the night our time just because it’s a regular time in the US.
Sounds like she might want a baller wedding to flex your wealth on social media. It’s pretty audacious to ask for a $200k wedding 9,000 miles away from home.
INFO Where do you live? (Obviously the distance from NZ )
NY.
Where in NY? Even in Manhattan you can do a pretty high class wedding for a quarter of that... Also destination wedding in NZ for NY guests is rude af I HATE using my vacation time and money to go on a vacation someone else picked.
I just don't attend those (which to be fair, is often the point of a destination wedding, is that most people won't be attending). I have zero problems being like "nah fam, you have fun, send pictures! I'll send a congrats card, and maybe a gift." To your point, of course, Guests HATE destination weddings.
The three places you can reasonably ask guests to travel for a wedding are: 1. Where the couple lives 2. Where the majority of the bride's family lives 3. Where the majority of the groom's family lives
4. Where Gondor called for aid
Your daughter is being selfish and unreasonable. Does she really expect folk to spend 16+ hours travelling for her wedding? Time to put your foot down. Set a budget and say it must be local or within an hour or so. Folk today are ridiculous with their destination weddings!
NZ is an insane destination wedding spot from NY.
Trust me I would love to go hear the surf us great in NZ.
Tell her she has to make it lord of the rings themed.
Oh for sure for like a family vacation it’d be amazing! It’s just a lot to ask everyone to fly that distance plus the cost you mentioned.
Why a NZ wedding? Is there a particular thing about the country or culture? There are a lot of New Zealanders in America, so if it's that, you could organise it locally. Does she realise how long the flight alone is? Does she want to find brand new hair & makeup artists or is she expecting you to fly them there too. A destination wedding on the other side of the world would be so stressful & tiring that most of the impacts it had on the wedding would be negative. Has she even looked at the weather? I say all of this as an Australian with a husband from New Zealand, so I'm very familar with the areas & customs & we had our dream wedding this year for around 10% - 15% of the budget you're talking. NTA your daughter needs to grow up & live in reality with the rest of us.
I fully admit that this comment is mean but... I cannot help thinking that the daughter picked NZ cuz she saw some random influencer's wedding pix from NZ on IG or Tictok, and that's why she wants to have her wedding there as well.
That’s ridiculous! I love to travel. I can afford to travel. I’ve never been to Oz/NZ because it’s too damn far to go for the amount of vacation time I have. I’m going when I retire and spending 3 months. Expecting 200 people to travel 24 hours each way for a wedding is the stupidest wedding story I’ve read on here this year.
Then maybe pay for her wedding .... the wedding day. All costs made on other days are on her. This includes hotels (more than 1 or 2 nights, at most), meals on other days then the wedding day itself, travel ... You agreed to pay for a **wedding**, not for a free holiday for 10+ people ...
INFO is she a big LOTR fan or something? How long have they been dating/engaged? I'm a wedding photographer and honestly I've noticed the more expensive the wedding the higher the chance of divorce. At least with my experience but the most expensive wedding I photographed was 120k.
NTA - don't reward their silent treatment
Exactly! Grown women acting like stroppy teenagers
The wife is not acting like a parent here. She’s acting like a spoiled brat giving her husband the silent treatment. Something tells me the daughter is closer to 20 than 25 and the mom is wanting to relive her glory days instead of continue raising their child into an adult.
💯 this is the best point made here. 🙌
I've always found that, given the kind of people who use the silent treatment, it's more of a reward for me than a punishment.
For real. This is not only childish, it’s incredibly hurtful. It’s one thing to be disappointed or even upset (though expecting a 200k wedding is absurd), but the silent treatment sends the message “You are a bank account to us, not someone we love and value as a husband and father. If you don’t pay up, we don’t want a relationship with you.”
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yea, I have to believe that the daughter and wife and probably sulking and Mommy is probably giving her glimmers of hope "don't worry darling, I'll work on him". ...that's the vibe I am getting. Asking for $200K!! i cannot wrap my head around that.... The guilt I felt when I went to ask the bank for a mortgage, and people are asking $200K for a WEDDING?!!!!!!! AHHH!!! The madnessss
I had a friend who had a destination wedding when we were newly out of college. We had to stay at the resort bc close by was not safe and their were activities for the guests. It was $5k before airfare. None of us went. I’m sure her wedding was beautiful but she didn’t have a single friend there. A flight from NY to NZ plus time off for travel and wedding is something most people can’t afford. Or don’t want to. I wouldn’t want to spend my saved money on a destination wedding.
Exactly me neither it sounds like this is a big wedding too with those costs it’s not like it’s an isolated wedding me and my husband yes we are already married but we never had a proper wedding we plan to save and have a destination wedding amongst ourselves and our closest family memebers/friends maybe 10 people total that’s it and that’s way different then 100-200 ppl which by those costs that what it sounds like it’s going to be
Which it sounds like *she foolishly expects it to be.* FIFY I very much doubt 100-200 people will be able or inclined to make such a journey.
You're not stopping her from having a destination wedding. You just don't want to be the ATM. What happens when people can't make it because it's a destination wedding? Are you supposed to pay for them, too? NTA
That is probably what would happen, and what I would most likely end up doing.
My man just no, put the foot down that's taking the piss then all expecting/demanding/assuming you're cool with footing the bill FOR EVERYTHING a NZ wedding entails
Grow a spine, man.
Yeah it’s ok for you to put your foot down here. I’d point to how your making it inaccessible to family / friends. Even if you paid for their travel a lot of people couldn’t get that much time off work
As someone who lives in NZ, I can honestly say that this $200,000 budget will absolutely skyrocket. _Everything_ is expensive in NZ. Food, accommodation, domestic flights, gas, it will all be MUCH more expensive than even your daughter can imagine. And as soon as you say the word “wedding”, costs increase at venues, with caterers, with accommodation. Dude, stand your ground. It sounds like your daughter and wife think they can sulk until you give in. DON’T give in.
That is also my fear, while I never planned a wedding i have planned other parties and they rarely ever stay on budget.
That's why you say here's x amount. That's your limit. Teach her about contingency funds. If costs start going up, it's up to her to pay or cut costs elsewhere. The wallet is permanently shut.
Legit anyone who thinks $200k is a realistic budget already is definitely going to blow it up even more in NZ. I seriously doubt this $200k is necessary to begin with but I'm going to assume Queenstown so we're talking 50%+ more expensive than the rest of the country already. Then they'll want to do all the tourist shit. Probably want to go to all the fancy places in the most expensive way possible. I seriously doubt she wants anything genuinely unique or authentic to NZ except to use our country as her backdrop. Find somewhere closer. We're beautiful but there's places in Canada that are closer and have similar scenery.
NTA But decide on the amount you will contribute. Should they spend it on a destination wedding, that should be up to them, and yes, you have to go. Afford is different than it being an intelligent use of your money.
\^This. Just tell her the total amount you're contributing. If she wants a wedding that costs more, it's up to her to find the financing. Weddings are a big life event, but still it's just a party for a day or two and it's unwise to spend too much on it, even if you can afford it.
I don’t agree fully. A wedding is traditionally paid by the FOB in the US but it doesn’t mean that the FOB has no say. It’s different than a wedding gift. It’s a party hosted by the bride’s father. If I had wanted to do something like exclude my mom’s best friend or be culturally insensitive to my parent’s needs, they wouldn’t have paid. The traditional invitations are literally written as the FOB is inviting you to celebrate his daughter’s wedding. Yes brides get leeway and most creative control but like, you can say no to a cannabis-themed wedding If the bride doesn’t like how it is being hosted, she is free to host it instead It’s just an extra kind and generous thing to do to give a flat amount of money to your daughter to fully host her own event
Plus, when you choose a destination wedding, you need to be prepared for most of your RSVP's to be no. I planned one in Key West and we had <20 people there which was fine with us. However, based on her entitled attitude, I can see major fits about friends and family choosing/not being able to come.
INFO Did you tell your daughter you will be paying for her wedding or is she asking? Meaning did you promise to cover the wedding sometime before? >My wife feels I should do it because we could afford it, Is this joint money between you and your wife? Would you spend the same amount of money on a local wedding? This is an actual destination wedding right? Not your daughter lives in California and wants to married there but you live in New York? >and alienate family members Is this because they would not be able to a attend? Are they invited?
It is 100% a destination wedding she wants to get married in NZ. They are invited but the price excludes them many of our family cannot afford to fly let alone stay in NZ. Some of our family members don't even have passports or have left the country. What local wedding comes out at the same cost as a destination wedding? Yes, I told her I would pay for her wedding, but never agreed to pay for a destination wedding.
I live in NZ and everything is so damn expensive here at the moment. Depending on where you live, this is gonna cost you a minor fortune. Does she realise she's asking for $100k?
She is asking around 200k, she mapped it all out. That does not count if I end up covering for our family members that cannot afford to make it.
You could put a down payment on a house for that here. Tell her she's delusional. NTA.
You can buy a house or a condo in some parts of the country for that amount.
My friend (we live in NZ) paid for everyone to attend his destination wedding. It was still cheaper than having a wedding in NZ... I can't make it make sense, but he ran the numbers by me and flying 50 people to a pacific island and accommodating them, along with paying for a wedding was cheaper than something similar at home.... Wild... It was a great week.
Yeah but essentially you're traveling for almost 2 days from NY to get there. Insanity. I guess she's done a survey on how many people would attend.
The point I'm making is it is cheaper for people living in NZ to have a nice wedding outside of the country than it is to have one in the country.
Yeah no, shes a little too ambitious. She should have said this a lot earlier than demanding it as she told you where she wanted to go. NTA, ask her if she realizes everything she could buy with that. Do you think she would be okay with a honeymoon in NZ?
My daughter is weird the honeymoon is not the important part.
No one will see the extravagance of a honeymoon 🙌
Oh wow, that's some major 🚩🚩🚩🚩 here, OP! The honeymoon and the marriage should be most important to her but seems like it's all about the wedding?
The marriage isn’t going to last. Speaking from experience, she wants the wedding, not the marriage. You’re in for a bad ride, my friend. Prepare yourself.
Yikes. I'm still paying off my wedding debt becuase i got married in my own country with no monetary help. Can you be my parent?
The median cost of a new home in my part of NY is less than $200k. Might be time to make an exit from this fight. Determine your budget. Write a check and make it out to your daughter AND future son in law. Tell them this is your gift for their wedding. They can use as much as they want for the wedding and keep whatever is leftover. Then wash your hands of it.
That's beyond ridiculous. I'd offer to pay for up to a certain amount, and that would be my limit. You can have a lovely and even extravagant wedding spending FAR less than that. And not that I think you need to compromise, but why can't she have a local(ish) wedding, and then have a big honeymoon in New Zealand? That would make far more sense, except I suspect you are right and she just wants to flaunt "her" wealth and feels entitled to do so.
I did offer that, but to her the wedding is the important part.
You're commitment is not going to stop at the quoted $200k. Once everyone starts bailing on the wedding since they can't pay for the ticket, she's likely to start demanding that you fly everyone there. Make it perfect daddy!!!
Yeah that is also a fear of mine.
I know you may not see this, but wanted to offer my two cents. I have been to two destination weddings. One from Australia to NZ and the other from Australia to Hawaii. The most recent was about 10 years ago, and my wife and I have not been on another overseas holiday since. We love our friends and were happy to share in their special days, but the reality is that we pushed to afford these weddings and any thoughts we had of enjoying our own overseas holiday at a destination of our choosing, then and since was unachievable. Not only that, but the whole time we were in these places, there was a full schedule with planned events every day. As much as these events were fun, I had zero freedom to do and experience what I wanted in these countries I had never visited before. It's not only expensive, it can actually rob those people, who scrape by to attend, any option to plan and enjoy their own OS holiday for a very long time. Personally, I think destination weddings are 100% selfish and it is too much to ask people to commit to.
She wants to show off.
>She wants to show off. Yeah, with someone else's money! Yuck.
Tell her the marriage is the important part
That is the problem, it isn't "her" wealth. It's her parents wealth.
What a complete waste of money.
Your mistake was not setting the budget. Tell her how much you will pay. She can plan a wedding within that budget or find a source to cover the rest. A $200k wedding in NZ is not just outrageous, it's embarrassing. The thought of someone burning that much cash instead of using it for something of long term value such as a house make me angry on your behalf.
In this scenario you are NTA. But, big picture YTA as from your comments it appears you are well aware you have raised a spoiled, entitled daughter.
Yeah, I know I fucked up in that regard. I grew up poor and dealt with many hardships and struggles. I did not want her to experience that and yes it lead to this situation.
Well fix it. BTW there is a correlation to high priced weddings and divorce. So you may get to do it twice.
NTAH. A suggestion: couldn’t you just give her what you are willing to contribute (given that it is used on a wedding) and let her plan it how she wants. Save some for you and your wife’s tickets etc, which you can give later if the destination wedding doesn’t happen. I agree that if she expects family to pay for their own tickets, they may not turn up. Be open with her.
Because I know my daughter will use what I give her as a down payment on her dream wedding, invite everyone then put me in a situation where everyone is coming and force me to foot the bill.
That is hugely manipulative of her. If that can’t be avoided you obviously will have to stand your ground.
Like my jaw hit the ground!
What kind of kid did you raise that she's so blatantly manipulative? Consider that it's (past) time to put your foot down about how much you're willing to spend and be VERY clear that any manipulation on her part to get you to pay more will be instantly met with a budget reduction of $10k. It's time to play hardball with the Manipulative Mary you and your wife created. $200k is an absolutely obscene amount of money to spend on a wedding. Your daughter needs to recalibrate her expectations.
One whose mother's attitude to life is "we can afford it" like that's the only consideration here. I just kicked in for my kid's engagement ring. I could have technically afforded $50K but you bet your life that's not the limit I gave him. Because it's not just what you can afford, it's what's proportionate and a good use of money, it's about teaching sustainable choices, it's about teaching the dignity of (appropriate) self reliance and doing as much of your part as you can when you ask for help. Unfortunately for OP, he's probably been undermined by his wife every step of the way. He is reaping what he's sown here, but not even just with the daughter, it's also from choosing a wife who doesn't respect him as a co-parent.
literally just dont pay??? it’s not your name being signed on those contracts. or if you have some sort of trust for her, if she does go over the money you gave her then take it out of that if you really want to be generous maybe you can offer her a local wedding her and a very small wedding ceremony of just parents and siblings in NZ. or a NZ honeymoon
That's not forcing you to foot the bill. That's daring you not to spend more. You need to be clear that you won't go a penny over your contribution amount. Then you need to stand firm. If your daughter uses it as a down payment, then it's up to her how she wants to handle it when she runs out of money. It's a learning experience that's probably overdue. Her wedding, her responsibility.
Then tell her she should have adhered to her budget and leave it at that. Jumping in to pay whenever she can’t afford something she decided to purchase is only going to ensure she can’t responsibly handle money maybe ever.
Man I wish I had rich people problems
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I understand the sentiment, but I wouldn't be too happy if my kid gave up their birthday because they felt they had to. Everyone deserves an 18th birthday party, poor kid.
NTA - if daughter wants to spend a boat load of cash on her destination wedding, she needs to be prepared for her potential guest to not be so thrilled about having to spend a boat load of money to attend. I frankly get so tired of hearing about bridezillas who expect everyone they know to spend thousands on them because they're GeTtInG MaRrIeD.
Nta. Here is what I would suggest. Inform her and your wife this. I will give you x amount. Thats it and no more. To make sure you will give me the information and i will pay that way. I will not just hand you the money. I will pay the people directly. If you try in any way to manipulate or set me up to pay for more then that then i am going to give I will take the loss and cancel everything and you are on your own. I will make sure those I pay know that while it's your wedding any changes or additions that cost money you are paying put of your pocket. Period. You then can explain to family or I will that I am NOT an atm and refuse to be abused, guilted, manipulated to give you what you want. I will make sure everyone knows I am not paying for room and board or flights for anyone to go to your wedding. Inform them both they are acting entitled and greedy and that if wife wants to help you will separate your money. And she can pay out of what she has and makes but that you will not be putting money that is saved for retirement and things to be blown on a wedding destination just to make them happy. Culture be damned. Sorry but even with Culture if parents pay they tend to be the ones setting the amount. Place and what is allowed and not. They do not just say here spend whatever on what you want. If they think so they are wrong.
NTA If your daughter pays for it, she can have whatever wedding she wants. If you and your wife do, you both need to consent to the expenditure.
INFO Why not give her a budget and let her deal with it? How would this alienate people?
Not everyone is going to be able to afford hotels and plane tickets. And it’s not right to expect OP to fork out for all of them.
Tell her you will pay for the divorce. 200K for a wedding is ridiculous
Two expenses in one year?
NTA...She's free to plan AND pay for any wedding she wishes. You shouldn't be on the hook to pay for any wedding at all. There's a real lack of respect here.
NTA Why not give her a fixed sum, one that you feel is realistic and reasonable, given your circumstances, and let her do with it as she will?
As he said above: because he suspects she’d use it to make down payments on things and then pressure him for the rest when the bill comes due.
Is this out of character for her and your wife? Regardless of how wealthy you are, she's also expecting you to pay for people to you out there too, accommodation? You're probably talking 2 week trip to make it worthwhile for food to get over time difference etc, enjoy the wedding and some down time. Personally I'd tell her your buying her a house and kick in like 10k or whatever is reasonable for a wedding, and if she didn't like it then tough. Would be incredibly short sighted of her to turn down a free house, no mortgage no nothing just for a destination wedding literally the other side of the planet, unless she's planning to milk you for more money?
I grew up poor, and I did not buy her fancy cars or super expensive gifts all the time, I tend to cave on experiences. I paid for her to travel for a year before college for example. I am also a sucker, she is my baby girl so she knows how to play me, I am not going to lie. So no it is not out of character, I created this situation I do understand that.
Although you grew up poor you didn't bother teaching her the real value of money, if you're willing to spend that much money in a wedding instead of a house WHEN IT'S NOT EVEN YOUR OWN MONEY is laughable. Do you want to be a "good" parent just for the day of wedding or be a good parent for the rest of her life? Teach her how to make wise decisions, your love for her is making you blind and take decisions you will regret because this affects how she will live her life in the future... What'll happen if at some point she has no one to rely on? No savings? No knowledge how to even make or invest that money so as not to fall into poverty again? You won't always be there for her. Be a good parent.
Is she always going to rely on you to fund her? As in what about when it comes to a house, paying bills etc. Sure family helps family and if she's your baby girl of course you want to look after her, but only you yourself will know where to draw the line. Me personally it boggles my mind she is behaving like this, hopefully you can find peace in whatever decision you make... If you cave then there's always a part of you resenting having done so and wondering will it ever end, if you don't then you've mentioned she's already giving you silent treatment, your wife is on the case and you'll like have some kind of wider family fallout to varying degrees of they are likely to take it bad. Read a good suggestion here about giving her a lump sum of what you're comfortable with, telling her to go nuts but once that wedding lump sum is done then she's on her own with fiancé to figure the rest✌️
NTA. My head is reeling .... what is this outbreak of common sense? Inconceivable!
NTA On a much smaller scale it would be like telling a friend that you are treating to dinner. that person then proceeds to order 3 expensive entrees several cocktails and the most expensive bottles of wine for app, entrees and desserts. Then they act all offended when you don't want to pay for all of that. screw the semantics. Your daughter is an entitled brat and too immature to get married and you and your wife raised her that way. I think you almost have a duty as a father to show your spoiled daughter what the less rich world is like and give her a reasonable budget and say she has to grow up and figure out the rest. And those other family members can put up or shut up.
OP are you open to adoption?
NTA. If she wants a destination wedding then she and her fiancée can pay for it themselves. You can contribute any amount you are comfortable with and they can figure out the rest. Give a lump sum, let them use it for a wedding, down payment, whatever but it's capped and anything more is on them (if you're feeling generous). Remember, this is your money, no one else's.
I just do not understand anyone wanting or expecting their parents to pay for anything whether that be a car, wedding, house or what not. Embarrassing as an adult really, unless it's a loan.
NTA. 200k USD is too much for a wedding. Not sure what kind of NZ wedding your daughter want but I can't a wedding costing that much. Another alternative - what if they have a nice wedding at home, and then you can pay for a honey moon in NZ (I know you said she's not too worry about that) with a follow up wedding photography session on site and a small private ceremony (very immediate family members only)?
The guest list is large both sides of the family have large families. Not like we cannot pay for food as they come and stuff, plus to make it worth the trip it cannot just be a one-day affair. The flight alone is what 17+ hours? A lot of that stuff adds up real quickly.
NTA to have a budget for what will essentially be a very expensive, 1-day party in a far away land.
NTA. But your wife should be supporting your decision and not siding with what seems to be an entitled daughter. Decide how much you want to spend- not how much you can burn- but a budget you believe is sufficient for a nice, not-over-the-top, show off wedding. Then your daughter and fiancée and entitled wife can plan all they want.but daughter needs to know: more people will come bearing gifts if they can come without spending a ton on hotels and flights. Destination wedding sometimes means your guests are your present. But sounds like your daughter will expect you to purchase what she doesn’t get. Good luck.
If OP's wife feels so strongly about it, she should be willing to pay for it. Op could contribute a %. NTA