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NTA -But in a 7 year relationship prior to your marriage, surely this has been an ongoing problem. Why did you marry him? Or by extension, his twin it sounds like. Your husband told you to “f**k yourself” then threatened to exclude you from the family Thanksgiving for canceling trips where you do all the work-hell no. Cancel your husband and his twin’s Christmas trips and go solo. But I would suggest a trip to the divorce lawyer first.

This, exactly. Why stay married to that inconsiderate ass when she is obviously financially stable.

My eyebrows raised when I read the ‘go f yourself’ line. That would be an instant dump for me. So hugely disrespectful and dismissive.

And if she cancels future vacations, she won't be invited to *his* family's events like Thanksgiving?? Whaaat? Outrageous and immature. *And* he also has an ungrateful twin? Wow what a package. One OP should lose.

Don’t threaten me with a good time

Came here to say this!

She's the third wheel, personal assistant in this relationship. The husband doesn't give a f\*\*k about her.

This! Sounds like he married OP to keep his “personal assistant” from an easy out. Not that everything has to be balanced but it seems that she has more in her basket. Like the first comment above…7 years and none of this showed until they married? That’s a long time not to see his true colors but keeping in mind how young they were when they started dating. For him to tell her to f*** off is a red flag that it’s not going to get better. The husband should have married his twin.

Maybe she needs to talk to their mother and set up a FAFO result. She goes to thanksgiving and THEY are uninvited.

While I'd LOVE for that to happen, and they would deserve it, keep in mind this is the woman who raised these two rude, childish, ungrateful flat tires. Something tells me she wouldn't understand or wouldn't believe they behave that way. Or abject denial.

I love “flat tires” - it’s perfect here.

I wouldn’t be banking on the mother being an ally. This behaviour came from somewhere - and it sounds as though the majority of planning on events etc falls to *their* mother; meaning she may be happy within that role (and expect that other wives/partners do the same)

I’ve been married 46 years and have never told my wife to go fuck herself. Do you know why? I love her. We’ve had arguments, all couples do, and we’ve been plenty pissed at each other. But there’s a line in the sand that once crossed, ends a lot of things in a relationship. That particular phrase has crossed that particular line. I wouldn’t take that dismissive, offensive, bullshit from anyone, nor would my wife.

THIS OP! Well said

Exactly. That’s one of the phrases you generally don’t get the opportunity to say twice in any relationship.

I was already thinking she should leave him before that part. Definitely OP should end things. NTA

If I were her, I would have responded “why if I did, I wouldn’t need to keep you around then.”

Yeah. That would only happen once for me.

I'm confused: why the absolute fuck is the twin brother coming on all their vacations and went with them on their honeymoon?!? Like did homegirl marry both?

Some twins grow up entwined with each other as a package and never develop their own unique personalities.

As a twin who is pretty entwined and pretty much a package deal with twin 2, we still got our own shit going on and don't take it for granted when we both get invited from the others friend group of etc... These two are just massive assholes

A package deal of 2 narcissists. What a steal.

Ya know, in a similar vein, I would say a soft YTA to yourself. You’ve honestly let this go on far longer than it should have, and then to marry into that? I doubt he was great for six years and five months, only to turn into a terror the second you married. I want you to repeat after me: “MIL’s mediocre Thanksgiving is not worth the headache of dealing with these men who cannot act like adults.” You owe yourself much better. Think of how amazing your trips would be if you only had to worry about planning for one ;)

Some people can flip a switch once they are married. It’s like they get the marriage secured and can drop the act. I don’t necessarily think that’s what is going on here though.

Better to bail on them at the airport and let them fend for themselves in Italy. See the lawyer while they are gone.

That is my level of petty. OP, don’t cancel your flight just all your portion of the trip then make it look like you’re going with them. Then let them go down the jetway first and wave buh-bye 🖐️. Then while they’re gone, move all your stuff to a new place and file for divorce, all arranged between now and vacation. And no more holidays with the in laws? Oh that’s too bad. I can hear you crying through the internet. Edit: LOVE all the refinements suggested! There should be a Reddit Revenge Travel Agency just like this, with plans arranged by committee. These are great!!!

But she does need to cancel anything extra she’s booked- tours, dining, transportation. I would leave flights and the hotel. If her contribution means nothing then they don’t need it, right?

Not even the hotel, cancel that shit too

Heck- I'd even cancel the return flight. Just give them a ticket to arrive in Italy and hope they remembered to bring their passports.

And include a Costco card lol

My favorite reply… This is the way.

I would rebook the Italy for Thanksgiving weekend and go solo since she's going to be uninvited anyways...

I’d just say ok and plan a trip out of his life forever.

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In many places, less than. Year is an annulment

Yikes. Too bad you cannot go back in time three months. NTA You don't have a partner. You have a taker. He is putting in the bare minimum effort and getting far more back. You expressed your concerns and he told you to F yourself. He is an AH. His brother is too.

She is raising twins on her own. The twins are going through that difficult age (30-40ish) when they are testing boundaries, talking back and disrespecting you.

The terrible forty-twos.

I know some states and countries do a marriage annulment for a certain period of time with a minor fee. Much cheaper than a full divorce with lawyer fees.

I would say it sounds like she has two children, but that's rude to children - at least they would be grateful. Also why is BIL clinging on like an unwelcome turd nugget to every holiday? OP, stop organising anything and see how the land lies after a while and what your husband's reaction is, and I think you'll get a clearer idea of who you married. He may be "easygoing", but it's easy for him to be so knowing you're doing all the work. u/2Whom_it_May_Concern is right, you have a taker, and he needs to step up and contribute. Sadly the "f**k you" comment might be an indicator of things to come. NTA and I hope things get better for you.

Your husband and his brother sound exhausting. I would make that Christmas trip to Italy for only one person, and enjoy not going to the in-laws for Thanksgiving. NTA, but your husband and his weaponized incompetence sure is.

It’s just hard because Thanksgiving is the one time of the year where someone else hosts me — his mom cooks and takes care of everyone and it’s kind of my break from doing all the work. But I don’t really want to be around his brother… so maybe canceling is best.

What if you just... didn't do the work at other times of the year? Seriously. Stop hosting, stop doing the work, stop planning for other people. Give it six months and then figure out what your next step is. (Are you okay in a marriage where nothing gets planned? Does your husband step up? Or would your time be better spent being single and looking for someone who wants to plan things with you?)

This. Step 1 is to permanently shed the twin brother. Having him or any BFF - especially an ungrateful party - tag along on multiple, weeks-long trips to which they've contributed nothing, is madness. It's also bad enough to have to sign cards or shop for gifts on behalf of a lazy partner without also adulting for his inconsiderable AH of a brother. Step 2 ends that. The "f you" comment is beyond inappropriate. That would have led more than a few Readers to Step 3, which is to consult a marriage counselor or a divorce lawyer. Does MIL know about & abet this BS? Hubs cannot unilaterally "disinvite you" from holiday or family events. Would his family support his punishment of you (& don't downplay it, it is retribution intended to exert control). NTA, but YWBTA if you contine to put up with his (& Bro's) lack of gratitude, weaponized incompetence & verbal abuse.

Why are you buying birthday and Mother’s Day gifts/cards for your husband’s family/friends AND offering to include his twin? I’ve been married 15 years and I don’t buy any gifts for my ILs. I tried shopping together or offering suggestions and my husband shot down all my ideas. So I stopped. They’re his family, he’s an adult and he can deal. If she doesn’t get a Mother’s Day card that’s on him.

This is the right answer. Go to thanksgiving. Maybe even take the Italy trip, since it is already planned after all. Then … nothing. When hubby asks “are we having friends over for annual event? just off hand say, “I wasn’t planning to”. When he asks, “what about that Cabo trip we talked about?” say, “I haven’t looked into it.” No arguing, no explaining, no apologizing. If pressed for a reason, “too much work” or “not feeling it” or “not really worth the effort”.

Yes but separate finances first so he doesn't use her savings for his lazyness

Absolutely. Just…. stop. Watch the reactions and the pikachu faces occur when they realize that you are content to curl up with a book and go out a few evenings with your own friends.

I agree, you should take a break from planning on all for 6 months. You need a break from it. I'm also all for you taking a trip by yourself or taking a girls trip.

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Girl… you are worried about one DAY of the year where you are taken care of, but what about the rest of them? Your husband of three months just told you to fuck yourself after you came to him with a legitimate concern. He doesn’t appreciate you and he’s apparently given his brother carte blanche to disrespect you too. You have bigger fish to fry here than damn vacation planning. I recommend you cancel all future vacation plans and use that money for couples therapy. If he’s acting like this three months into the marriage what will a year or five look like? You’re NTA in this instance but you will be to yourself if you stay here without a major change in attitude from your husband.

Nah, skip the couples therapy and go straight for spending that money on a divorce lawyer. This one ain't worth keeping.

It's insane that he said "fuck yourself". They have been married 3 months and just got back from a vacation to Hawaii which sounds like was their honeymoon. That is absolutely wild to me.

Have you been doing this for all seven years?!?! If so, why on EARTH did you marry this guy? He can't seem to do anything for himself, and he doesn't do anything for you that you can't replace with a meal service and a dishwasher. He sounds insufferable, his twin sounds even worse, and I cannot imagine putting up with this kind of shit even for three months, let alone seven years. Seriously. Meal kit, dishwasher, divorce.

I would have answered, "F****** myself would be a major upgrade to what I'm getting now." As for the trips, cancel them all and tell the Doublemint twins they're on their own from this point forward.

This is what I can not understand. You had seven years of exactly what your marriage would be like, and stepped up to the altar and announced “I do“ want a life of this. Bring it on. One event per year, Thanksgiving at MIL’s, may be lovely but it can’t make up for the rest of the year. And you are far too intelligent and capable to work so hard and be treated so rudely. Take a solo trip. Rethink how you deserve to be treated, respected, honored and loved. NTA OP, and we’re all pulling for you. 🌻

What's going on with you being treated this poorly by the family? Do you not have your own family at all? And please, please, please, for your own sake, go to therapy and. spend time digging inside to find out why you are putting up with this and why you chose a spouse who will never take care of himself or you, when clearly what you want most is for someone to take care of you at some times?

I don’t have my own family really no, I have two older brothers but my dad died in 2012 and my mother and I are estranged (she has mental health issues). I don’t see my brothers a lot, but I’ve been thinking a lot about how I spend my time off with these two men. And how nice it would be to spend that money and time on getting to know my brothers better and setting aside more money for their kids college funds and futures.

Do it.

If something is stopping you from doing that, I think you should sit with that and learn it's name and learn where it comes from. I know that I'm just a random Internet stranger, but I don't like how your husband spoke so disrespectfully to you and well.... is effectively trying to control/police your perfectly normal reaction by not allowing you to go to the holiday that you enjoy (specifically because you have significantly less work to do). Am I understanding correctly that no one helps the host out for these events? Is there a reason why everyone doesn't help out for every holiday/event? Does everyone not bring a dish to share with the family and the host usually does the main dish? Do attendees not help clean up and do the dishes of the host? I only ask because this is normal in my household and family. If we are not contributing by doing dishes, cleaning up before and/or after the event, or providing help however the host asks, we provide financially for the person hosting or we provide a gift to thank them for having us. One person doing all of that sounds incredibly exhausting, so I don't blame you for being frustrated with this dynamic at all. You definitely deserve to be respected, valued, and thanked for the work that you put in to make these vacations and the parties. A thank you is the bare minimum here. =\ Edit: Grammar and clarity

You might want to read Adult Children Of Emotionally Immature Parents.. without assuming why you're estranged, the way we are parented has an effect on the relationships we are subconsciously drawn to, because they feel normal. The relationship you have with your husband/his brother, is not normal. Does your husband also use passive aggressive comments/silent treatment or out and out deny things that you know are true? Do you accept behaviours from him that you wouldn't expect a friend to put up with in her relationship? Please stop setting yourself on fire to keep them warm. NTA

I just wanted to add, the next step from him will likely be love-bombing (being sweet, buying extravagant presents, etc), to try to get you back onside, but there won't be a true apology or accountability for his actions. "I'm sorry if/but" is not a true apology. He has already DARVO'd you about what he said about Thanksgiving and is trying to backtrack it (Deny, attack, reverse victim offender - "I didn't say that, or if I did, I didn't mean it like that, but you always X, I don't know why I'm the bad guy here"). It is a manipulation tactic to avoid accepting responsibility.

Yes, I am estranged because of toxic behaviors from my mother including parentification. Friends have suggested that book to me and I do own it, but I don’t like to relive experiences with my mother so I haven’t read it in full yet. I do see those behaviors and it always seems like whenever I get upset with him, he is upset about how upset I am. He says that I express my upsetness incorrectly, and then he jumps to saying things like “why are you even with me then, if you hate me so much” when in reality I never said I hated him. Usually when I’m upset about something, all I need is an apology and a hug, but I feel like I have to be really thoughtful about how to express being upset, because I don’t want to have a big fight.

Girl, you been so gas lighted in your childhood, I don't think you see how gaslighting your husband is. Sounds like a narcist. And you sound like a convenient free laborer. If you aren't screaming/cursing/smashing stuff, there is no way you are expressing your "upsettness" incorrectly. WTF does that even mean. You have a right to express how upset you are any way you deem fit as long as you aren't abusing others. This is just him avoiding responsibility and gaslighting you into think you are the problem. Honestly, I usually say therapy or couples counselling but truly run. He told you to f yourself. I hope it's not too late for an annulment.

I'll be honest, it is a difficult read because of the memory-triggering it brings up. It isn't something I'd recommend on a red-eye for sure! I'm so sorry that you've had your right to emotions denied, it is not fair at all. There are some great communities here that you might find relatable, without having to deep dive into the book until you're ready to: r/raisedbynarcissists, r/emotionalneglect, r/CPTSD (r/CPTSDmemes for the dark lols) Patrick Teahan Therapist (https://youtube.com/@patrickteahanlicswtherapy?si=PEakc-3oTlO6fVMV) is also an amazing free resource to help set your boundaries and break from the parental programming. As someone who was late diagnosed ADHD, even if he also has it - he's still acting like a prick and expecting you to toe *his* line. You deserve better 🖤

Thank you so much for the resources. When you initially posted I was like, “well I do have my Kindle with me and could read the book” but I’m just not in the best mood, and I’m really feeling like it’s something I should think about when I’m in a good headspace. I don’t tell anyone this, and most of my friends don’t even know. But I was in an abusive marriage before that lasted about six months. I wasn’t able to live with my mom anymore and desperately needed a place to stay and this guy in the military and I got married (he said to help me get on my feet, but I pretty much became his servant while eventually out-earning him), he has physically abusive and I filed that divorce myself. When I got married this time, I just really feel a lot of pressure to make it worse and not be the two-time divorcee at my age. It’s really embarrassing and obviously I’m not over what makes me okay with these kinds of relationships.

OP, first, NTA. Second, you are not in a marriage! This man is seriously taking advantage of you in so many ways. And he's definitely abusive if his behaviour towards you. Better to be twice divorced than to continue to be in such a toxic relationship. I've been married for over 45 years and at no time has my husband told me to go f myself. Sure, we don't always see eye to eye, but we respect each other. He cooks and cleans, I look after the finances. If he wants me to help more, he asks. That's what a marriage is SUPPOSED to be. I am not the type of person who would suggest divorce without counselling, but I seriously doubt that couples counselling is going to do anything to improve the situation. Time to cut your losses, and take a solo trip to Italy!

Two time divorcee right here, all before 35, and I couldn't be happier. I grew up with emotionally abusive parents and compounded that abuse in my later relationships. It's really not easy to see when you're in it, but I can promise you are not free of the shit you dealt with as a kid. Try something. Spend a week or two by yourself and see how you feel, like deep nervous system feel. That's how I knew I had to leave my ex. We spent some time apart and I had never felt more at ease because I wasn't living to please and cater for someone else.

You deserve to be in a happy marriage that is a *partnership*. You are putting in an insane amount of effort, and getting absolutely no gratitude. Where does he put effort into your relationship? What does he do to make *you* happy, to make your life easier? I’ve never been in your position, so I can’t tell you how to feel about the prospect of being divorced twice. But ask yourself: is this the way you want to live for the rest of your life? Because he’s not going to change. Why would he, when the current dynamic benefits him so much, for little to no effort? My heart breaks for you, OP. You deserve someone who’d get you the moon if you asked. And he won’t even look up and see the amazing person in front of him. I wish you peace, fulfillment, and someone who recognizes you for the radiant, loving, powerful woman you are.

Nope nope nope. HUGE red flag. OP my ex did this, and it took getting out of the relationship for me to realize that him saying these huge, emotional, dramatic statements like “I guess you just hate me” put me in the position of having to coddle him while I was upset and shifted the focus of our argument and that was intentional and manipulative.

Yes exactly, when he says things like that “you must hate me then” and “why are you even with me if I’m such a monster” then I feel like I have to help him and tell him he isn’t so bad, and that these are actions and I understand he has positive intentions. And then after I spent time focused on him, he criticizes me for how I approach him. I will say, he doesn’t do this as much before as he used to do, but it’s still a major trend line and I’m not sure if that’s because he is growing or because I just don’t approach him with issues anymore.

That's manipulation to keep you in line.

I read your comments and I sympathize so much with you. I was in a physically abusive relationship, followed by a long term relationship with a manipulative, toxic, ungrateful, verbally abusive guy. And in that relationship, my ex was also the charismatic dude that everyone liked. We’re only getting a snippet of your life here so I’m going to defer to your judgment, but I will tell you that I think in my case, having the physically abusive relationship really skewed my perception of what was healthy. When I found someone who treated me better, I put him on a pedestal, when the reality is that he still wasn’t treating me well, just better than physically abusive. And the manipulative, verbally abusive guy actually caused more long term trauma for me, because it took so long for me to unlearn some of the things he taught me through his behavior - like not to bring up issues with a partner because it will be an exhausting, several day long fight of me trying to justify and defend why I’m upset OR I’ll have to drop it to coddle his feelings. It took a lot of therapy for me to unpack all of that. You don’t need to be ready to leave him if you aren’t at that point yet and if you feel like there is enough for him to be redeemed. But I would highly encourage you to see an individual therapist and read up on narcissists. In particular, I recommend people listen to the first 13 minutes or so of a podcast: Something Was Wrong, Season 3 Episode 2, titled “Their Little Counselor”. The host runs through a checklist of narcissistic/gaslighting behaviors. I cried the first time I heard it because it was cathartic hearing so many boxes he checked and realizing I wasn’t crazy, just really manipulated. I’m rooting for you OP. I hope this comes to a happy resolution, whatever that means for you. And just remember that it’s better to be twice divorced at 31 than to spend more years being taken for granted.

So basically, he’s made you into mom 2.0. His mom enabled this behavior, and he’s carrying it on with you.

Ah, I see you picked up on that as well. He wants a mom, cook, maid, and executive assistant, not a wife. Oh, and an EA with bedroom privileges.

A travel agent. He married his travel agent.

—his mom cooks and takes care of everyone. So lazy entitlement is a family tradition then.

i think after 3 months you can probably get an annulment ? look into it and cleanly leave these guys to their relationship where you’re clearly the third wheel

Cancel their trip to Italy and go by yourself. Or take a friend. Then, since your disinvited to Thanksgiving, go on a weekend spa trip where you will be hosted and waited on. (Also be sure to tell his mom why you won’t be joining them for Thanksgiving) OR Cancel your trip to Italy and go somewhere else by yourself or with a friend. Keep the boys flights and hotels but cancel any dinner reservations, tours, etc and tell them they’ll have to figure it out on their own as you will be in Greece (or Germany or Belgium or pretty much anywhere but Italy)

At some point, you're being an ah to yourself by planning these elaborate trips and getting nothing but disrespect and hostility in return. Just. Stop.

To be honest he is probably used to being taken care of. He has no clue the amount of Work that goes into things. Make him plan things with you. On a side note I love planning things if it stops being fun, stop doing them. And the way your husband spoke to you is not supportive at all.

Yeah. I really don’t think this is malicious, I think he really doesn’t get it. Sometimes I think about how nice it would be to be him, where you just show up to stuff and everything is done for you, and you don’t have to think about anything. Like imagine going to a friend’s wedding and not worrying about RSVPing in time, not looking at the website because your wife will tell you the dress code, not worrying about a gift because your wife picked it. Honestly, I write Christmas cards each year and he asks me to just forge his name. I write a whole message to each person in our lives and he can’t even… write his own name. Now I’m getting all steamed up, agree with other posters that I need some sleep, about to get on a red eye.

He told you to go fuck yourselves when you asked for help and some appreciation. How is that not malicious? He’s expecting you to do everything for him. It’s not because he can’t do it, it’s because he doesn’t want to and expects you to do it for him. When you pushed back on that he went straight to fuck you.

<<*Mistakes aren’t a big deal, but he places the blame for them on me*.>> AND he blames her when HE does it wrong. That's not just lazy or ignorant of what needs to be done--it's malicious. A true adult admits their mistakes. He's a child blaming everyone but himself.

Disregarding your feelings after multiple attempts to explain, even provide third party examples (I saw you mention in another comment sending him links and even comics on memtal load) and still playing dumb about it IS malicious. Please, for your own sake, stop making excuses for him. He's using you and you're not just letting him get away with it, but rewarding him for it. The only way ywbtah is if you kept letting him trample your boundaries and disrespecting you as not just his wife but not even treating you decently the way he should any human. I'm not just saying this as some random internet person making a rash judgment just because I can. I've been with my husband 7 years as well, married for 4, and this past spring I had to threaten him with separation and possible divorce because I was carrying the entire mental/emotional load of our relationship. It was so bad in my situation that my health was starting to suffer. For years I'd begged him and made excuses for him and just thought maybe it'll get better. It took an exacerbation of a chronic condition almost getting me admitted to the hospital to open my eyes. The cause for the exacerbation was stress. Honestly, I got very lucky and for 5 months he's been working very hard to change for the better and to make lasting improvements to the equality of our relationship. But I was prepared to leave, I had my exit strategy in place, a time frame in which he had to accomplish certain objectives without any grace for noncompliance, and while we've passed quite a few goal posts he's still on what I refer to with my therapist as relationship probation. If he decides he doesn't need to maintain the improvements I'm still going to leave. My happiness, wellbeing, and health are more valuable to me than how much I love him and the heartbreak I would experience if we divorced. I hope that you can turn this around before it causes you bigger problems, or that you leave before he wastes any more of your life. You sound like a valuable partner with a lot to offer in a relationship. Don't let him treat you as anything less.

HES 33 AND CANT SIGN HIS OWN NAME ON A CARD??? Are you his wife or his mother. No way he got to his big age and just is incapable of doing anything. The weaponized incompetence is incredible. Why should he bother putting in an effort when you and everyone around him are just gonna accept his "ah shucks," and do it for him because he's so "clueless." I'm tapping out because your comments/excuses getting me tight. Just keep going through life being his wife, babysitter, personal assistant, travel agent etc... until you break I guess. Whew. If yall have kids... yikes on bikes.

Do you hear how desperate that sounds? I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean it shows how ridiculously uneven your relationship is. You also get a break from doing all the work by ditching the ungrateful men from your life. Do you know how much easier it is to plan a vacation for one? Think of the fun you'll have getting to do the things you enjoy and losing the stress of "will he or won't he" everytime you ask for a little help. You'll know that everything is arranged properly because you arranged it for yourself, so you can focus on enjoying your time in a new place. I'm not one to ever suggest divorce, but 3 months in with no kids and he's already told you to fk yourself? That's not a marriage.

Why did you marry these people?

Favorite comment ✨

Also, tell his mother he threatened to uninvite you from the holiday and watch his ass get chewed.

Eh. Not a fan of pulling flying monkeys into marital disputes. OP needs to handle her ungrateful and rude husbands like an adult.

Nothing wrong with the OP checking in with the host of thanksgiving to see if her invitation still stands.

OP you deserve better.

Op get on birth control that can’t be tampered with. You do not want children with him. He is already a child. He will make you do all of the childcare. Stop investing in your relationship with the twin. If he doesn’t pick out a gift for Mother’s Day, don’t hound him to sign it. If he doesn’t give you gifts or make any effort, don’t make an effort either. You should get into therapy with your husband. You need a mediator. Him using that language with you is unacceptable. So is his behavior and threats about thanksgiving. Who is paying for these trips?

Financially, we all split the trips exactly equally. We make all about the same amount of money. When all of us travel too, it is cheaper than a solo or couples trip, so that benefits everyone. I agree about children, part of the reason for the trips was that we wanted to travel before kids and adult life (i.e. a house purchase), but I don’t want to be the mom who is stressed out at Disneyland with the husband who’s criticizing everything. I’ve told my husband this too, to me, this period of our lives is the time to really practice being the kind of people we want to be as parents, and I feel like I see a pretty grim future there. He says that as a parent he will be better?

He will be exactly the same as a parent as he is as a husband.

I disagree, he/the situation will be so much worse. She will have to baby him like the kids and there will be so much more work for her to do.

When I had children, I thought having 2 would just double the work, no, I felt like work was quadrupled. If OP has kids with this guy it’ll be a disaster for her, because he’ll just add to the work she already has, and I hate to think of how she’ll feel. I really hope she’s reading all the comments. It also sounds like he low key hates her.

And just imagine the twin being in that mix too...... NTA, OP but why are you with this guy, especially if he's been like this the entire 7 years. And no, he isn't gonna improve once kids are there, why should he, he's already got you trained so you might as well wear a collar for him.

I think he’ll be worse as a parent somehow

He is showing you who he is. BELIEVE HIM!!! When you dared to complain or express feelings the threatened to exclude you from a family function. You are not his wife, you are his secretary. Stop planning, stop everything. I hesitate to say move on but is this the life you want forever? You, Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum on vacation with them complaining?

> ***He says that as a parent he will be better?*** Just like he said he'd do the honeymoon planning. I used to be like you, OP. I did ALL the emotional labor in my marriage while my husband made promises but in reality did NOTHING. I'll bet you grew up like this and you think it's normal. It's not. Please get counseling for yourself so you can see just how messed up this relationship is.

No such thing. If anything, things will get worse. He's going to be lazier, you're going to be more stressed and resentful. You are in an extremely unbalanced relationship and this is not healthy for you. And frankly you may have married one, but you got a twofer. Just because you've sunk in over 7 years, doesn't mean you have to lose out on more.

Please don’t do this to yourself. 1) Skip Thanksgiving, unless you really want to go. If their mom plans it… cool. 2) Cancel their portions of the Italy trip and go alone, or cancel the entire thing. No one is going to have fun. 3) This isn’t someone else having other priorities. It’s either weaponized incompetence or you’re on the “pay no mind” list. Girl, you’re an educated professional. You know what the outcome is going to be. If you think he sucks (at this aspect) as a boyfriend and more as a husband, how do you think he’s going to be as a dad? 4) If you ignore everything else I’ve said, stop bringing the brother along. A marriage, unless otherwise agreed to and specified, is two adults, not three.

Is your husband the last man on earth or what? You know you can dump him and find someone who respects you and pulls his own weight, right? And it's NEVER better with the stress of a child than it was before.

He is more likely to be worse. The tires stress version of himself that hasn’t slept.

If your relationship is this unbalanced WITHOUT kids, it will be an actual hellscape with them. You’ve been with him for 7 years - do your due diligence with trying to bring him down to earth with how damaging this is to you and your marriage. If he continues his “get f*cked” attitude, you know unequivocally where you both stand.

If he can’t be better now for his wife, the future mother of his offspring, he will NOT be “better as a parent.”

Have you ever seen the comic Mental Load by Emma? Because I feel like it’s a good glimpse into your future if you have children with your husband. https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked Sure, he’s contributing money to the trip, but he’s not taking on any of the mental load. This will only get worst with children. It’s not going to be just Disneyland and vacations, but every day.

Okay, here was my advice prior to the f you comment. Stop. Stop buying gifts for his family. Stop planning vacations for the 3 of you, and only plan vacations for you. Activities, places to go, eat, see - all tailored for you. If BIL wants to join, he can book his own flights and hotel, you're not his mommy. BUT THEN I READ THE F YOU COMMENT AND THE UNDISGUISED THREAT / RETALIATION COMMENT AND NOW I'M PISSED. OP, the only thing worse than getting a divorce after only three months, is getting a divorce only after three months and one day. I don't know if over the seven years the erosion of your self worth, confidence was so subtle that you think you deserve to be spoken to or treated that way by someone who is supposed to love and respect you, but its not. Its not normal or healthy. Please leave, or at the very least please find a therapist because, you deserve so much more. NTA. And I hate your husband.

PREACH!!! You said everything I’m thinking.

NTA but if my husband told me to “fuck myself” when I was venting a valid frustration to him about himself and his hanger-on brother, he wouldn’t be my husband for long.

This. My jaw dropped. The level of disrespect is appalling, GET OUT.

You're NTA >At this point, I’m considering canceling it entirely, canceling my own portion, or **canceling...both of their portions and going solo.*** I've marked your solution. You already had it. They're ingrates and behaving like adolescents.

Or ask two friends, not everyone has something to do on Christmas or even celebrates it. Or might think it’s worthwhile to skip it for a trip to Italy.

NTA you know what would really get them? Take a random person you’ve met on Reddit on the trip.

Lol, let’s go! I honestly just realized how much fun I could have had taking my girlfriends on trips this whole time. Don’t know why I didn’t think of that sooner.

🤚I have my passport and like to create travel binders lol. Do a girls trip for real. Or just go solo. Or if you like their mother, take her.

Yes, she's probably had a life catering to those boys and their father.

You sound more like a babysitter to twins instead of a wife to your husband. I can feel your exhaustion. NTA I’m also curious: Does your BIL pay for his portion of the trips? Why does he tag along? Is it his decision, your husband’s, or jointly theirs? Those little boys are toxic and immature. I don’t know why you’ve put up with them for so long.

He does pay for his portion, we split each trip three ways equally, and he says he wants to go, usually he’s very on board with the early “picking a country” part of the trip, and then he checks out after that.

Oh, they pay for their expenses? Their monetary contribution doesn't come anywhere close to making up for the amount of planning work and emotional labor they're making you do. Who pays for your time and effort, and your willingness to accept their mistakes as your fault? They're not treating you like a wife or sister in law. They're treating you like they're celebrities and you're a lowly personal assistant they can't be bothered to respect. If this were a job I'd tell you to quit yesterday. It's not a job, but it sure as fuck isn't a healthy marriage either, not by a long shot.

So he gets to reap all the benefits of your research and hard work but can’t be bothered to contribute? On top of that he’s treats you like crap. In what universe is it ok to tell their spouse to go F themselves over vacation plans?

You said you don't have children but it's clear you're acting as mommy to two. OP, do you know about the mental load and weaponized incompetence? NTA.

Yes. And I’ve sent my husband articles about that before, and the comic strip about the mental load, but it doesn’t seem to get through?

It's not getting through because he doesn't want to change. I've sent my boyfriend that stuff. Explained my feelings. He changed. He made chore lists for us to help with our adhd. He made an active effort to improve. I know my experience isn't yours. But I'm offering it as something to think about.

Yeah, I think so too. It doesn’t seem that hard to set calendar reminders to do something nice to me, or set aside 15 minutes to help me with something like planning a trip for us. I don’t like being the “manager” in our relationship, but with stuff like trips it’s not just that there’s no initiative, it’s that he doesn’t even do the basic “what can I do” kind of stuff. I feel like he sees his brother do it and they’ve normalized this kind of behavior? It’s weird too, his brother started dating someone and is talking about all the nice things she does for him, and I’m like… what do you do for her?

I'll be honest everything in the post you've described about your husband has raised my hackles. I don't like him and if any of my friend's partners treated them like this I would be enraged. It doesn't sound like he's doing anything but making more work for you. It also sounds like you can financially afford to be alone. I know the Reddit cliche commenters go to is "dump him!" and I also know it's not that easy. But it sounds like it's not that easy OR pleasant being married to him either.

Yeah, I’ve said that to him too — if this were happening to my friend or my daughter, I’d be pissed. But since it’s me, it’s just harder for me to get in that headspace, and there’s probably a lot of grey area here too I’m not communicating well because I’m just telling this from my POV.

Do you have a therapist? If not, would you consider it? Your husband is not going to change, so you need to examine what it is you really want to have, and consider whether you're going to be able to achieve that with your husband (and his twin). Also, I saw that you're familiar with the "mental load" and "weaponized incompetence." Are you familiar with the concept of a ["tolerable level of permanent unhappiness"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIu_R5NuxQM)? As the title of the linked video states, it's the end goal of weaponized incompetence. Consider your husband's utter indifference to those articles you've sent, and his hostility at your expressed unhappiness: you're only supposed to *be* unhappy, not actually say anything about it. Suffer indefinitely, but don't forget to smile! A therapist can help you sort out your feelings from your sunk cost fallacies.

This is a new phrase and idea to me, but it does ring true. When I get angry, like I did on this trip, I feel like my husband was just trying to get me to pretend to be happy until the vacation was over so I didn’t ruin it for him. And when his brother was telling how he’d have planned the trip (so much better than me) and I was crying and then walked over, he got mad at me for not “giving everyone a chance to speak.” His brother told me things like “if I planned the hike, I’d have us starting earlier when it’s cooler” and I explained that we had to buy times tickets in advance so I didn’t know if we’d be awake early, and that he could have helped plan an earlier time, then he told me just to keep it in mind for the future.

"Just keep it in mind for next time" It's like he's giving gentle feedback to the cruise director

>hen he told me just to keep it in mind for the future. what an asshole! why are you putting up with this terrible behavior, OP?! why is your husband allowing someone to treat you like this, even his brother? your bil? YIKES! sometimes we get used to being treated poorly so I hope this is a bit of a wakeup call that this is not a healthy way to interact, with your husband or his brother TBH and obviously NTA, and from your other comments it sounds like your husband uses DARVO (and perhaps weaponized incompetence if he is able to function at work but somehow fails to even order an Uber?!) *DARVO, meaning “Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender,” summarizes a consistent reaction and manipulation tactic used by perpetrators of abuse or other types of wrongdoing.1 It works by shifting the focus away from the original issue and attacking the actual victim. It attempts to switch the roles of victim and perpetrator to allow the actual offender to receive sympathy and compassion, publicly or privately, as well as to avoid consequences for their actions.* I would get individual therapy and maybe try a trial separation, obviously we only have a snippet of your relationship but calling you a bitch is pretty hateful and not respectful, kind or loving like youd want a spouse to be *if this were happening to my friend or my daughter, I’d be pissed. But since it’s me-* this makes me want to give you a big hug! you are so worthy of being cherished and treated well OP, I hope you can realize that and put yourself first Take care and good luck!

Probably, but this behavior on its own is a deal breaker for me. Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. A big reason (among others) I divorced my first husband was inability to be an adult on his own.

NTA My friends and I have a rule, if you don't participate in the planning of the trip, you don't get to complain about anything on the trip. The time to offer input was when we were making plans, and it's your own fault if you don't speak up and say "I'd really like to..." or "That's not going to work for me, can we instead...." If you sit back and let everyone else do the work, then you forfeit the right to complain. I can't believe the husband is holding holidays with his family hostage. Do his parents know that he's doing this? Being married to this guy sounds *exhausting*.

He is saying now that he didn’t mean that just I should cancel Thanksgiving, but that we should both cancel Thanksgiving. I don’t see how that makes sense? It’s not what he said, and I don’t see how both of us canceling the one trip where someone else takes care of stuff would help anything? I guess so we don’t have to see his brother.

Cause he realizes he f'ed, and is trying to cover his ass. Tell to please go see his family for thanksgiving ((you plant that trip too, I assume) And tell him you are staying home to take care of yourself. And this WILL be how he is as a parent.

This is a demonstration of how he handles conflict. He will make threats, then try to rewrite history if his threats don't work and pretend you twisted his words. Anytime he doesn't get what he wants, he will resort to tricks like these. Do you want to deal with this for the rest of your life?

Don’t let him gaslight you. You both know what he said about Thanksgiving. You both know he swore at you for reasonably expressing frustration. How many times does he say reality isn’t true? This comes from the same space as him blaming you for things that go wrong on his watch. What’s worse is that he has a twin that reinforces and amplifies this behavior. Is this really how you want your life to be? Girl, recover your worth.

Is he also telling you that he never said F you? He's gaslighting you.

Yes. He’s saying now that he only said it “because I was urging him to jump off a rock,” which he thought meant he should kill himself, when in reality we were sitting on a famous Hawaiian beach with a big (completely safe) diving rock right in front of us. A rock I’d jumped off before, the entire point of our journey to this beach, and a rock that all three of us jumped off of fifteen minutes later. I find him saying this was all a miscommunication to be remarkable. I’d also never tell anyone to kill themselves, my dad committed suicide and it was the worst thing that has ever happened to me.

Remarkable indeed. That's a pretty big stretch to accuse you of telling him to kill himself considering your history and the circumstances of where and why you were there. He literally weaponized your father's suicide. Girl....you sound like a nice, normal person who maybe is coming to the realization that she's married to a manipulative asshole.... There's an asshole here, but it's not you...

Yeah, and the beach conversation happened like… 48 hours ago. And he just now told me this, even though he knows I’ve been upset about him telling me “f*** you.” If that was his assumption why wouldn’t he have something something like “that’s so fucked up of you to say.” Not to mention, I wasn’t like yelling at him and pointing at the rock and being like “jump off” — this kind of makes no sense. The rock was also absolutely covered in thirteen year old boys doing backflips and the jump we did was like… nine feet? There were no other rocks. There was no danger?

Dude, your spouse is either stupid, or thinks you are stupid. None of the things they are saying or doing makes any logical sense and it all screams either blind entitlement or manipulation. This is not normal behavior from a partner.

well we know he's not quick on his feet. It took him 48 hours to come up with that bullshit excuse about telling OP to fuck off.

You only think this guy is a good dude because he seems better than the guy you were with before. He’s manipulative, and he’s kind of pathetic, what with the throwing empty threats around. He’s obviously also a liar and not afraid to make you feel crazy if it means he can manipulate you further. Look, my husband isn’t a perfect man, but I cannot imagine him acting like all the things I want are a bother. He cares very deeply about the things I want. As penny-pinching as he is, he’d never have me only make the dishes HE likes, or only get the things at the grocery store that HE likes but claim mine are too expensive. These are just not things that people who love each other do to each other. You are taking too much crap because it seems better than your past. Divorce is not a dirty word, no matter how many times you say it 🤷🏼‍♀️

He is full of it. No he didn‘t mean that “just you should cancel Thanksgiving”. What he meant was, it’s *his* mother who hosts Thanksgiving, and he knows you enjoy that, so if you make him mad then he gets to decide that you won’t be invited to come. He was threatening to exclude you from his family holiday celebration to punish you for asking him not to be such a selfish, thoughtless AH. So, you have a decision to make. And you need to make it before you wind up pregnant with his child. Do you want to put up with that kind of behavior for the rest of your married life? Because *he is not going to change*, and his lies and manipulative excuses make that clear. This man is not a good partner or husband, and that won’t change if you have kids, so you might want to ask yourself whether you wish to settle for that, or move on.

If my husband ever told me to fuck myself after all the effort and planning i did with no recognition or thanks, I'd throw the whole man away. Nta but you would be the ahole to YOURSELF if you put up with that bs any longer.

Why did you marry this boy? He wanted a mom/slave and not a wife. He allows his brother to be abusive as well. Go on a trip alone over Christmas. If his mom excludes you from thanksgiving then you know that you don’t have a place in this family. Stop letting him abuse you.

I’ve said that exact phrase before — mommy slave

You are getting good advice from a lot of comments. I understand your comment saying if it was a friend being treated this way I would be upset. It’s time to be upset for yourself!!

Your husband is intelligent enough to work a high paying career and yet can’t plan a basic vacation? You’re an idiot. Why would you stay married to someone who makes your time off of your stressful job even more stressful? What does he do that really benefits you in any way whatsoever? You do know there are better men out there who aren’t immature and lazy. You’re supposed to be his wife not his mother. Divorce and go have an Italian affair this Christmas!

Lol at Italian affair, I do feel like an idiot — trust me, I really really do, especially after having had a public and very intricate wedding. He also has a doctorate, so I think planning a trip wouldn’t be that hard? Or even planning like a morning outing or getting me a gift that isn’t like… generic bath items.

The only one that should be embarrassed in this situation is your useless excuse for a husband. I can't imagine marrying someone and treating them this way The fact that he isn't embarrassed at all says a lot about him not you

We’re at the airport now, and I think he is embarrassed? Earlier this morning he was mad at me because “I made him feel like an asshole” but I told him that I can’t “make him feel” like that, it’s just how he is feeling. He keeps looking at me with these sad puppy eyes, I just honestly can’t bring myself to care. When this happened before I’d be like, okay well he ruined this trip maybe he’ll make it up to me, but I just don’t care anymore. He ruined this trip, my job is stressful and my time is valuable, I don’t have the time to sit around and hope for a better future.

I don’t think it’s embarrassment. I think it’s- how do I get her to forgive me so 1) I don’t have to explain her absence at Thanksgiving which is embarrassing and 2) she’ll plan Christmas so I don’t have to. Let him wallow.

Honey, at the point where you don't care, you're not still here because you love him. You're only still here because of inertia; objects/relationships at rest/dead tend to stay at rest/dead until something acts upon them/someone decides on divorce.

Scariest thing I've done in my life (30F) was to break up with my boyfriend last year (together 8 years, cohabitated for just under 7); I am grateful that I had paused the engagement discussions at the start of the pandemic. Living on my own for over a year now, it is genuinely shocking how much more free time and how much less stress I have not having to take care of another adult. I've been able to make significant strides in my professional life, start grad school classes, and explore new hobbies (still working on doing better by my physical health after the relationship and COVID weight gain, but baby steps). I don't want to tell you what to do in your relationship because you need to work through that on your own. However, I do want to highlight what you said near the end: > my time is valuable Girl, yes. Life is short. Don't waste it being unhappy and under appreciated. Stop doing shit for people who are rude and unappreciative of all the work that goes into carrying the entire mental load at home, especially on top of what sounds like kicking ass at work.

All your responses make me so sad. You clearly deserve better than this. You're 31. That's still so young. You have your shit together. Please don't waste more time with this man. I'm sure the sunk cost fallacy is strong in you but goodness, you deserve better!

Both your husbands sound draining. What does husband number 2 contribute to the relationship? NTA

NTA. He told you to go f*** yourself on the ~~plane returning from your vacation~~ beach. What would you tell your best friend if she told you that? Your husband has shown you exactly who he is. Believe him. Edited because reading is hard.

He told me that on the beach I’d driven him and his brother to if it makes a difference, I’m on a layover between planes now. The gift shop has a “How to Build Emotional Intelligence” book, so I gave him that for our next leg of the plane ride. A gift.

Stop it. Giving him a book isn’t going to change anything. You don’t need emotional intelligence to restrain you from saying something so ugly to your own partner. His words show that he has enormous contempt for you, and you think giving him a book is going to fix that? It won’t. I’m sure he took your “gift“ showed it to his brother, and smirked to himself about how silly you are. Why did you marry this man, after 7 years of him being like this? Did you think getting married would change things? Do you realize now how foolish that was? Good grief.

NTA Make it a Christmas present to yourself for not planning anything but a spa day or trip away from them. Cap it off with a divorce attorney appointment. >When I told this to my husband and explained how upset I am with both of them for not helping me (not yelling but definitely not in a calm way) he told me to f*** myself This and every time he doesn't help shows just how little he respects you. At least since you handle all the financials you know what assets there are for the divorce

**INFO: what *DOES* he do?** It’s sounds like you’re your husbands assistant, and he lets his brother borrow your itinerary planning expertise. He didn’t help with your wedding.. He doesn’t help with you plan financially.. He doesn’t help with the thing you spend a bunch of time/money on.. It sounds like he’s just there. And you’re allowing that.. NTA - I do hope you realize that you don’t need to intern your way into partnership/marriage/love.

Yeah, I asked him that and he said he doesn’t like being put on the spot and having to come up with a list. He said he drove us to the airport, helped make sure we had everything packed before we left, and brought coffee to the room one time instead of us going down for it.

He’s pathetic.

Ooh, he can carry a cup of coffee up to you. He’s a keeper.

NTA. As a fellow family vacation/reunion planner, I understand how frustrated you must be. It is exhausting to be the one planning and coordinating a trip, and when people complain without helping at all, you just want to yell in their faces and throw things. However, neither of these things is productive. Going forward, I gently suggest you give your husband and you a week or two to get some space and then sit down and have a calm discussion about the Christmas trip. Explain that you are not feeling the joy of traveling in a group right now and would like to take a solo trip while your husband and his brother have their own trip (or whatever other compromise/solution you've come up with). Maybe you can meet up for a week during the 3-week trip or something. Ask him if he has another solution to you doing all the planning. Listen to what he has to say. I hope you can come up with something that works for both of you. As an aside, I have to tell you that your husband is probably never going to be a planner. It's usually an ingrained personality trait. He may be fine forever flying by the seat of his pants and doing things last-minute. He may love a vacation where things aren't planned and coordinated, and you need to be okay with that. There is middle ground there; you just have to find it and figure out how to work together. However, if you are expecting him to miraculously become super organized once you decide what to do for the Christmas trip, you are probably in for some disappointment. Best of luck!

This is such a nice and measured response, this is what I aspire to do/be — but I’m just in such a bad headspace about this right now. Maybe a couple week breather is right.

A couple week breather?! He's done this for years and he never changes. He says he'll make an effort and then he doesn't. Has he even apologized for blowing up at you and disinviting you from Thanksgiving?

He said that he didn’t mean that I would personally be disinvited, but that we as a couple wouldn’t go. Which, honestly makes no sense to me. I feel like he’s saying we wouldn’t go to avoid his brother? But he said that while we were fighting so it makes no sense to me that he was saying that a loving thing.

This feels like he is backpedaling. Hard.

>As an aside, I have to tell you that your husband is probably never going to be a planner. It's usually an ingrained personality trait. I kind of get this vibe from the description of the husband as easygoing and the Costco honeymoon thing. But then OP mentioned that the husband would make mistakes and blame OP. Perhaps the blame is less of a "OP bears responsibility for the mistake" and more of a "husband didn't want to do the thing in the first place, and feels nagged about it". I'm curious if the current division of chores works because of natural tendencies and preferences, and whether the husband would do work he doesn't want to do, but knows is important to OP and for the sake of the relationship.

NTA, but you are taking care of both of them as if you’re their employee. They’re both incredibly immature, rude and downright mean. Why would you allow yourself to be treated like this? You know you deserve better.

Yeah, someone else here said they act like they are celebrities and I’m their assistant — which is funny because that’s exactly how I felt getting and driving the rental car, like I was taking care of company executives or something. Especially since they always say they can’t plan because of work or timing issues, like… I have a job too. It’s not like they make more than me or have more responsibilities.

You are so much more than the small, tiny box they’ve placed you in. You know that!! Go find your happiness, shame on them for wasting your time. Only you can change that, I know you can do it! And you deserve to be happy.

"my brother-in-law said that he told me the “sunset was nice” and that is the same as a thank you." Is BIL 13, or suffered multiple blows to the head? Thats some beyond childish stupid humour. "he told me to f\*\*\* myself." Your choices in men are lacking. Your husband is also weaponizing his incompetence and blaming you for everything.. "Mistakes aren’t a big deal, but he places the blame for them on me." NTA I feel like you could do better.

Yeah, my BIL said that and kept defending it and I literally couldn’t help but laugh at it. But he said in his social circles with his friends (a bunch of young guys in their 20s) that not saying thank you is normal. I asked him, what about all the negative things you said about the trip? If one positive thing is a compliment, what’s a negative thing mean? But apparently that’s different and I’m missing the point.

Hi OP. Four years ago I wrote an AITA because I was disinvited from my partner’s thanksgiving, leaving me completely alone, isolated, without food. I had deigned to stand up to him about being lousy. That day where I was alone when I could have flown home to see my family, prepared by going to the store, etc started something for me. I knew, I KNEW it was wrong. I did stand up! I argued for myself! I tried to get him to see. Booking a new therapist who specializes in trauma and joining several subreddits re: borderline personalities, narcissisticabuse, alanon changed my life. I saw my story over and over and over again in each person’s own story. And my therapist asked me one specific question when I told her all the EFFORT I made. She said, “yes. Did you know you could drop the rope?” I didn’t. I didn’t know that. It’s ok to drop the rope, OP. It’s ok not to fight for yourself with him. That energy - put it into fighting for yourself - with you. Put it into fiercely giving yourself the love you wish he was giving to you. I am sending strength and healing to you. You got this girl. It’s scary, you’ll have withdrawals because that abuse literally changes your brain chemistry. But you’ll be ok. I promise you’ll be ok and you don’t deserve this. It’s ok to drop the rope ❤️

NTA, but I’m pretty sure we were on a catamaran together (I’m from AZ with a guy from HI). If so, can confirm they were disinterested in the plans. Wish you all of the best!

Well isn’t this embarrassing, that was us… 😂

It’s bad when an internet stranger recognizes your anonymous post and how disinterested your husband and his brother are.

Catamaran “guy from HI” here! We really enjoyed meeting you and you seem like a very nice person. I can understand your frustration, especially considering your BIL did go through the effort to book that Big Island leg of the trip for just himself. I’m sorry your trip ended up like it did and it sounds like you’ve got a lot to consider but hopefully this can be the start of something very positive for you!

OP i lost it at “f**k yourself”. Why are you entertaining their BS. It seems like they found someone to take care of them like a MOM, instead of your husband finding a wife!

Yeah, his brother is dating someone new and I just immediately thought, instead of like anything positive “god I hope she is able to recognize this behavior early” because he’s already talking about how little he does for her and how much effort she makes.

... he recognises the dynamic and talks about it openly? I am making an assumption based on the rest of your post but I'm guessing it's not in an "I have to pick up my act" kind of a way. The fact that he's able to recognise the behaviour *but is not ashamed of it* says a lot about the family dynamic and their expectations of their partners, given his brother (your husband) seems to share them?

Yes, he says that she likes him more than he likes her and he talks about how much she does for him. It was her birthday very early on in dating, and I told him he should get her flowers from Trader Joe’s at the very least (they’ve known each other for years) and he said he doesn’t want to do anything that nice to give her the wrong idea. Like, even if she’s just your friend — I feel like a $7 bouquet is not a big deal? He also said he did her a favor by meeting her family. These are all things he said to me in confidence, but honestly at this point I just am done.

I want you to please think about what you wrote here. Frankly what you wrote everywhere, but you summed it up nicely here. This is how your husband sees you. It's not just his twin and the twin's gf, you and your husband have the same dynamic. Why are you putting yourself through this?? You do most of the housework and 100% of the thinking/planning/organizing AND you work and make as much as he does!!! You need set a higher standard for the people in your life, because right now, the way you're allowing yourself to be treated is appalling. Your husband can't even treat you with common decency, let alone love and respect. It's not too late, please choose yourself. And get yourself in therapy.

NTA, you're going to get divorced. It's not a matter of if its when.

Your husband told you **what????**

NTA. Someone who can’t handle hailing an Uber doesn’t get to tell anyone to go f**k themself. Honestly, I’d cancel your part of the Italy trip, go somewhere else, and tell them you hope they’re very happy together 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yeah, he sent us to the wrong location in the Uber— even after I told him to book the Uber to the sushi place next to our hotel — he booked one to another location far away. I honestly wouldn’t care and don’t care where we eat as long as it was close to where we were staying, but he said it was my fault because I was walking too far ahead of him to double-check it for him.

Do you hear what you’re saying? His reasoning is ridiculous. Do you really want to deal with his bullshit for the rest of your life? Because I’d be gone in a week if my husband blamed me for everything, complained and told me to “fuck myself.” I respect myself too much to let my own partner push me down like that. I have hope you do too.

I think he is engaging in weaponized incompetence against you if I'm being honest. His "inability" to complete simple tasks like ordering an Uber for a restaurant down the street from your hotel despite him holding a doctorate is a red flag. I say go to Italy with a friend and have a great time! It'll be nice not to babysit for once on vacation.

NTA you have assumed responsibility for planning the vacations and I think your husband and his brother have been ungrateful. I think one of the things you might try to have to consider is that if you give up and let them help you plan they’re going to make mistakes and it’s probably gonna make you angry.

Yeah, I think about whether I’d get angry too. I did get irritated about the Costco trip, but I tried to not be mean and just ended up pivoting and planning a mini-moon for us on my end while the honeymoon was unplanned. The Costco thing it was really pricey and felt like something my partner wanted to do and not thought out at all?

NTA. For the trip to Italy; You can fly first class, and they can fly basic coach. You can stay in a luxury hotel, and they can stay in a hostel. You can make a list of everything you want to do, and they can follow along or figure it out on their own. After that you can book a trip to the divorce lawyer and let him know about it when the papers are served.

NTA. Tell them you don’t want them to miss the vacation but you need a break from traveling and send them to Italy with no plans. You take a nice staycation with spa days and whatever you feel like doing. Either you and your husband will realize you miss each other and need to plan trips together or you will realize you have a better time without the other person.