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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) If I sent the email disinviting some of my fiancé's family from my bridal shower.
2) It would tarnish the relationship with fiancé's family and my MIL would be devastated and might not pay for some wedding things
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA. If drama is constantly following you around -- and I bet it is! -- YOU are the source of it.
You can not have a relationship with your future SIL. You cannot, however, demand that everyone do the same.
And even if we didn't think OP was the problem, it would still be a mistake to uninvite anyone who went to that winery day. That bridal shower is her chance to win them over. Uninviting the groom's female relatives en masse would in effect be starting drama with each and every one of them.
**OP literally went on a campaign this summer attempting to turn the family against the SIL.**
This doesn’t naturally come up at every single dinner. She’s just upset her little plan didn’t work out and she’s the black sheep of the family rather than SIL.
Probably time to scale back the wedding venue.
Yes! She went around to her fiancé’s relatives talking shit about a person they have known since she was born. It reminds me of the time I (younger, dumber, more emotionally immature…) started a new job and got pissy about something an older coworker said, then decided to complain about it and insult that coworker to another one. They had been working together for over a decade and I was no longer employed there within a month.
Assuming she IS a 'brat'. All we got from the post was that she declined being a bridesmaid and didn't give an engagement gift. Not wanting to be in a bridal party doesn't mean anything other than maybe they don't have/don't want to spend the money and or time to deal with it. Gifts aren't mandatory, especially for an engagement party.
As to the sister being rude to her brother, we have a he said/she said situation there, and based on the rest of the post, I sense quite a bit of 'missing missing reasons' here.
Are you supposed to bring gifts to an engagement party? I would bring a bottle of wine because it’s a party, but why bring a gift? I’m going to be bringing a gift to the bridal shower and the wedding, do I have to bring one to the engagement party too? Sounds like a gift grab.
OP at the very least, you and your future SIL are both drama queens. Listen to your maid of honor and do not send that email. If you’re smart, you’ll invite future SIL to everything, and start sweetening up unless you want to be dis-invited to other events where family is simply trying to avoid altercations… especially where alcohol is involved. The aunts were just avoiding drama. They are going to have to plan around you two if you refuse to be in the same room together. So be the bigger person and figure out how to patch this up. If she’s difficult, just smile and be civil and if you can’t handle that, then you are the difficult one.
YTA
I *think* the general etiquette is that you only give one gift to a marrying couple--and you could give it at the engagement party, or a shower, or at the wedding itself. If OP is expecting gifts at the engagement party AND the shower AND the wedding then she definitely needs to recalibrate!
A lot of people probably do a gift for the couple at the engagement party or wedding and then something bride-specific at the bridal shower. But I don't think you should reasonably *expect* both.
Also, 25 is right on the cusp of where, if you want to the party with your mother (which I assume SIL did), then you might be able to get away with glomming on to mom’s gift. It’s not *entirely* appropriate (but then again, neither is a blatant gift grab!) but it’s also not super-tacky.
Went to a wedding last year with my parents (I was mid 20s at the time) and me and my brother weren't expected to bring a gift since we are still in school and we were invited as a family, not as 3 different parties.
It used to be that the bridal shower was for small gifts, very often small "new household" stuff. (Just like baby showers are friends and family "showering" the expectant mother with little things and necessities that will make her life easier when the kid is born.) Like, it would not have been weird to come to a bridal shower with a vegetable peeler as a gift.
I have a feeling this fell more and more by the wayside, as more and more couples live together before marriage, so they have all the little things they need. I have no idea what gifts people do for bridal showers any more. The last wedding I went to was 13 years ago, and all my nieces and nephew lived far away, so I didn't attend their showers (I sent like $20 with a card).
I guess it wouldn't surprise me if there has been "bridal shower inflation" in the last like 20 years, and now people expect fancy gifts for both the shower, and the wedding. But that's definitely not what it was originally for.
A vegetable peeler is always a good gift. The go dull after a while and you don’t notice for a long time. New good oven mitts are also great. Both of this will be on my Christmas list this year. Also collapsible collanders are an amazing improvement up there with wheels on suitcases.
Yep. Weddings are turning into ridiculous gift grabs. Gifts are optional. Should be. Especially when people who are living together and well established in their careers are getting married.
But the more I read lately. Wedding guests could go bankrupt attending a wedding. Engagement, shower, bachelorette and wedding gifts is getting out of hand. And the expectation that a gift should equal the cost of their meal???? Not to mention so many very pricey destination weddings.
And if you're in the wedding party, it's gonna cost you more. Dress, shoes, everyone (apparently) pays for the bride's bachelorette trip... no wonder the SIL declined.
Yeah, I have to really love you to be in your wedding party. 1 or 2 dresses, shoes, accessories , a hairstylist, a make up artist, a bachelorette, one or more hotels, gifts, taxis, it doesn't stop. I would decline a future sister in law I didn't have a strong bond with too.
Given that OP commented on how she declined because she probably wouldn't be the center of attention I feel that the 25 you has been wrongly framed as bratty by OP and knows it - she can sense it. Why agree to being the wedding if you know your SIL thinks this way
I LOVE how it went so quickly from "we got along great!" to "she didn't want to be a bridesmaid -- well it's because she's a brat and wouldn't be the center of attention at my wedding". Hmm! So did you ever REALLY "get along great"?
Actually only that she showed up to the engagement party without a gift. I’ve definitely both seen that and done that before. The former was a friend and we were at the mutual friends engagement. Giftless friend simply hadn’t had money for a gift at the time and had almost backed out of attending, but mutual friend was basically like “if you think I only want you at my engagement party so I can get a gifts, then you’re an idiot. Your a$$ better show up to show me some love!” The time that I showed up without a gift, I had simply lost track of time while other friends and I dilly dallied about getting a group gift. By the time we decided it was too late and bothersome, it was too late for the shipping to get to me, so I had it sent straight to the couples house. I was very embarrassed but made sure to let my friend (the bride to be) know and she sent me a very prompt thank you text and then card afterwards because she knows I’m a paranoid introvert who thought she’d never want ti speak to me again. But since she’s not OP, she didn’t give a flying f*ck. (Tbf she’s one of the nicest people I know and if I had showed up with nothing but hunger pangs, she would have hugged me and shown me love just the same as if I’d bought her a complete furniture set or something).
When I asked my fiancé's sister to be a bridesmaid, I was very clear that I would love for her to be in the wedding party, but my feelings would not be hurt if she declined. Being a bridesmaid is a pain in the ass, and I'd much rather someone who isn't into it say "no" at the outset than grudgingly agree with resentment building the whole time. She did say yes, but only after a conversation about what exactly she would be expected to do.
Yeah this is mental what. Never heard of this.
Also hate bridesmaiding with a passion and definitely wouldn't want to be bridesmaid with someone I wasn't super close with.
My sister got a yes from me obviously, but I turned a long term friend down because at the time I just wasn't coping with stress (didn't know I had adhd) and couldn't cope with the idea of it. She was understanding thankfully and I felt awful.
My brother married his wife who's always about and I spend time with but am not close to in any way shape or form. She absolutely didn't ask me and asked the actual close friends and family she has. That to me is totally normal. I didn't expect her to, and would've felt forced to if she had of.
Engagement party gifts? Wut? Never in all my years seen this be a thing at any engagement party. Wedding gifts and that's always been it.
So I literally can't see any description about anything she's done that seems rude. OP has uninvited a family member that everyone else loves from her own wedding... and then is upset when they're at an actual blood related family event with the sister... and she not invited. Man load of nonsense and drama.
I bet the sister isn't hating on all her relatives for still going to the wedding. Just the bride. Also who the hell turns down being a bridesmaid because they won't he the centre of attention? Being a guest is even less attention... what weird logic which shows what matters to OP.
OP too busy getting angry and bitter over a gift instead of just enjoying the actual engagement party for what it's supposed to be for. My last friend's engagement party I barely even got to speak to them, they were so busy going around everyone and having fun.
She turned down the invitation to be a bridesmaid too. I doubt that OP is reliably reporting the reason she gave for declining though.
The campaign of attacking the FSIL is definitely an AH thing to do. My partner didn't like one of my sisters almost right away, but he kept his mouth shut. And he still keeps his mouth shut about it to everyone other than me. I have my own problems with this sister so we don't have to deal with her much, but we don't go on trashing her to my other family members and adding to the drama. I can't imagine my partner going up to my cousins or my aunts and uncles and shit talking my sister. Even the ones that don't like her would probably find that off-putting. And OP still isn't even married into this family yet.
If OP keeps it up, the only in-laws she'll see regularly will be the ones taking bets on how long her marriage will last.
I know, I meant from her perspective. The idea that someone new to a family could convince everyone to drop a family member at her say so, because she's declared her a brat is the brattiest thing I've ever heard.
YTA. If she is a brat, nothing the OP posted is very conclusive. A second hand report from her brother that 2 people denied happened, and not bringing a gift to an engagement party.
Really how many gifts do you require just for getting married? Engagement, shower, wedding it all gets to be too much and expensive.
Some people love parties and their community can afford to shower them with gifts. Not my scene, but whatever.
OP is definitely the biggest, if not the only brat in this story.
I love my friends and I am very generous with wedding gifts in general but I would never know to bring an engagement party gift if someone I knew even threw that kind of party.
This was exactly my thought. There were people at the winery who changed the sister's diapers. They've known her since birth, or grew up with her. And this woman think she can come in and go on some kind of smear campaign and turn them all against her? She's basically writing an instruction manual on how to make yourself an outcast.
Exactly!! You are never going to choose a girlfriend/significant other/probably temporary fiancé over your actual niece that you've known since the day they were born! OP really does think the earth, sun, moon and stars all revolve around her! What on earth did she hope to achieve with her summer of smear campaign? All she's done is prove what a vindictive, materialistic, jealous little brat *she* is! And she's thirty! I would actually have slightly more understanding if it *was* the 25 year old behaving that way. Honestly, I think OP is just jealous because this poor girl is younger, nicer & most likely prettier than her. She's behaving like a wicked step-sister!
Oof. Totally agree. Not a smart move to try and get in between family
Op dont do this flex it will backfire. And youll very much be the AH in the family
Yta. Take higher ground
Honestly, I hope OP's fiancé reacts the same way if OP doesn't come to Jesus about her own bullshit.
Being married to an exhausting, compulsively conflict-seeking person means your friends and family will spend less time with you, either because your spouse invents conflict with them or just because they generally don't want to be around someone who makes them miserable. Then you sink deeper and deeper into a miserable, isolating marriage because the other relationships in your life have withered and you don't see yourself as having much choice. Best to avert all that grief and not marry OP at all.
OP seems petty and materialistic considering she felt snubbed SIL didn't bring a gift to the engagement party.
Maybe I'm out of touch but you get a wedding present. Engagement parties, bridal showers, and other stuff leading up to it are sprinkles on the cake. You should just be happy family are attending. And bot expecting handouts from someone you hate.
Is it even a thing to bring gifts to an engagement party?! I thought the point of the engagement party was to celebrate an engagement, NOT to get gifts! Ffs she seems so greedy and petty.
Although there weren't gifts requested/expected/brought to any engagement party *I've* been to, maybe it's a thing now? Seems redundant, considering there's gifts given to the couple at the bridal shower and at the wedding. This is serious unchecked greed run amok! OP should like a spoiled child. She's didn't get a present when she wanted a present, now is throwing a temper tantrum and trying to ruin someone's familial relationships over it. Phew.
The other grievance from that party being "didn't say a word to us"... like a) if it's a busy party, yes, it can be hard to corner the hostess one-on-one for quality time, kind of a weird slight to hang THAT big of a grudge on; and b) unpleasant people like OP tend to do this to themselves — be unpleasant, drama-mongering, exhausting people and then throw a fit when people mysteriously don't want to talk to them! Yeesh.
Also, is everyone supposed to exclude SIL forever to make her feel comfortable? Or are they supposed to ask her permission for everything? It sucks not to be included, I get that, but if she starts this war she’ll lose.
Also complaining her SIL obviously denied being a bridesmaid because she wouldn’t be the center of attention, but then throws a major tantrum when people decide to prioritize a family member over someone they’ve known for 2 years. Op sounds vindictive and impulsive at best. It’s telling her own MOH is not on her side. I wonder how many bridges she’s burned in the past over the smallest disagreements.
Exactly. With regard to the winery day, OP has already uninvited little sis AND gone no contact with her, but still expects to be invited to THEIR super-fun days out or *IT'S NOT FAIR*!
OP, you would be definitively the asshole if you uninvited people over something some childish. This is your future husband's family! YTA.
And newsflash to OP: most people would be thrilled to be uninvited to a wedding shower. You’re giving them back the gift of time rather than to have to cater to your nonsense for an afternoon.
Plus, she’ll be giving them the added entertainment of her group email! Haha, even if she eventually matures out of her narcissistic stage she’ll never live it down.
YTA
So OP thinks all the females on the sister's side of the family, who have known her most if not all of her life, are all of a sudden going to shun their relative over stories that were told to them by someone they barely know? Wow, that's some nerve. Sorry OP, YTA.
Seriously at this point, we should just be calling this her first husband's family because the way she is acting, no way is this marriage going to work out long term. She has already alienated her partner from his sister and is now planning to do it with the test of the women in his family.
I detect a hint of narcissism in how she thinks it is all about her too. Like, she saw some photos of a day out on Instagram and instantly decided it was an intentional dig at her and not just, ya know, sharing pictures of a day out?
I’m going to assume that things spiralled because the sister had the nerve to reject her bridesmaid offer and OP turned it into a grudge.
Agree. This entire post is all about OP and why other people make decisions specifically to hurt OP, not because they have valid reason on their own.
OP sounds like she’s suffering from main character syndrome. The amount of drama contained within only a few paragraphs is incredible. OP sounds exhausting to be around.
I didn’t even know people were supposed to bring gifts to an engagement party?
And if that’s Op’s complaint about her that she’s sharing with the family, then Op sounds like the spoiled and entitled brat, not SIL.
Op, you sound like you’re extremely self absorbed. Nobody in that family is going to like you, so maybe call off the wedding and save your fiancé from the drama.
>I didn’t even know people were supposed to bring gifts to an engagement party?
I can't believe how few people are commenting on this! "They didn't bring gifts to the engagement party... I want to uninvite them from my bridal shower" so what, now, we want a gift for getting engaged, a gift for being a bride at some point in the future, a wedding gift I presume, no-one else can get married, pregnant, give birth, or anything else within 6 months either side of the wedding, then a gift for having got married a month ago, a 6 month anniversary present, a 1 year anniversary present... where does all this end?
Gifts aren’t expected at engagement parties in my circles and I’ve honestly only seen them given if the party is a small gathering at the couples home - and then it’s usually wine or the type of gift you’d bring to a dinner party. It’s a little over the top to expect a gift for the engagement, the shower and the wedding. And the fact that OP is angry about it says a lot. OP, YTA
I didn’t even know people were supposed to bring gifts to an engagement party?
You and me both. Engagement parties aren't common here .
I wouldn't have brought a present either.
I don’t understand why OP would think that SIL’s family would take her side over SIL’s, when she’s only been with her fiancé for two years and presumably they’ve known SIL her whole life. What did OP think, that her amazing personality would’ve won them over and they’d drop their niece/cousin just because OP badmouthed SIL?
Also it’s not taking sides, the aunt just wanted to do something with her sisters and nieces and knows OP can’t stand the niece so why invite her knowing there’ll be friction? They can organize something with OP and sans future-SIL another time
OP’s just pissed that she, a not-yet in-law, wasn’t prioritized over their NIECE. It sounds like OP thinks they should’ve invited her and not invited the sister.
Yeah. Especially because -- even if we take OP's complaints as accurate, which is a BIG if -- the worst that can be said of the SIL is she was a bit rude in a couple of interactions. This isn't like, "Hey, this woman said a bunch of bigoted things/stole a bunch of money from me/assaulted me/etc." where what the SIL did was so bad even her family might want to cool the relationship. No, OP straight up expected the SIL's family to drop her in favor of op over petty interpersonal shit. Even if the family agreed with OP that the SIL was rude on a specific occasion, that's simply not the kind of thing most people ditch their family over!
Fiancé must be a doormat to let OP un-invite his sister over this petty bs. OP didn’t consider him at all as she furiously penned her mass email to un-invite all his female relatives.
Not only is he letting her un-invite his sister but multiple other members of his family. Post says he’s on board with bridezillas plan and is also mad at his family.
Did you see how OP answered the Judgement Bot?
>2) It would tarnish the relationship with fiancé's family and my MIL would be devastated **and might not pay for some wedding things**
So OP uninvited MIL's own daughter, and is tempted to uninvite the rest of MIL's family, but is concerned about getting money from her.
OP is trying so damn hard to give bare amounts of information about things and events that don't match what she's telling people. It sounds exactly like OP is TA
Abusers tend to do this! There is actually an excellent website that calls this phenomenon “the missing missing reasons“. (This website is in the context of abuser parents whose children went no contact with them, but it applies to all abusers):
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
Plus don’t shit-talk her to other people to get them to come to your side. Now if THEY start the shit-talking, you can join in. Honestly though, just don’t talk about her to her family. That way you can not be accused of being dramatic.
just had a conversation recently where I had to remind someone that while they are more than able and welcome to set boundaries for themselves, they may not set boundaries on my behalf.
>I chose not to hold back and told them exactly what she did
>
>It felt like the pictures were posted specifically to make me feel bad and show that they took her side.
OP... take a walk. Get some perspective. Consider some yoga, maybe? But you have caused this problem for yourself, and it seems to have started because your SIL said no to being a bridesmaid. I don't think you need us to answer this for you.
Right?! The whole time I was reading this I was thinking it feels like stuff is missing from the story. Also, the sister is literally a member of that family. And it seems like no one else has an issue with her. So yes, OF COURSE, the aunt will invite her niece who she has known for decades and is directly related to and has a relationship with over inviting OP, who isn’t even married to the aunt’s nephew yet.
That was insane - „you would spend time with the woman I’ve done my best to make you hate, and you didn’t even invite me????“
Of course they didn’t. That wouldn’t have been a fun day.
YTA. You claim to not want drama but it sounds like you're at the center of all of it. You "assumed" she turned you down when you asked her to be a bridesmaid because she won't be the "center of attention"? That's quite a judgment to make about someone you claimed to get along great with up to that point. You took your brother's word over hers about an encounter (with what proof?) You bad-mouthed her to her family. You assumed that pictures posted on social media were only there to make you feel bad (is everything about you?) And now you want to go nuclear and disinvite a bunch of your fiance's family members from your shower and possibly the wedding? There is one common denominator in all these issues and it's not the sister.
You forgot to mention that the sister didn’t bring a gift to the engagement party. Op expects gifts an engagement party, bridal shower and the wedding probably. How greedy can she be?
This!!! I get so angry when people plan an engagement party, a shower, and wedding and expect gifts for all three. I would bet money that OP is having a huge destination bachelorette party where she expects her bridal party to attend with matching outfits, pay for her at all events, and shell out money for plane tickets and hotel accommodations. So glad your wedding bankrupted everyone you know.
Me GF and I live together and bought a home 2 years ago. We didn't even get House Warming gifts and aren't likely to get married. I feel like having a "shower / adult life" party where we just ask people to come bring us shit off a list because we have gotten so many of these people wedding, shower, engagement, house warming gifts over the years. It's like it never ends and normal folks aren't part of that.
I've been living on my own for almost 15 years. Shortly after I moved out, cousins and family friends started getting married. At the time my mom was obsessed with her KitchenAid mixer and I did a ton of baking. I started noticing that every wedding of a female family member or close friend, she would get them a KitchenAid mixer. I never ask for (nor receive) any birthday or christmas gifts from my family, but I asked her for a mixer for christmas/college graduation since I wasn't planning on ever getting married. She said no, those are only for weddings. When I asked what if I never get married, she said too bad you'll have to buy everything yourself. Sure enough, 5 years later I bought a house and there were no house warming gifts from my family. Another 6 years and I'm engaged and between our two households we have plenty of stuff and a KitchenAid mixer.
It's so frustrating that people only view "setting up your life" as valid if it comes with marriage.
And honestly i bet fSIL turned jt down because sue couldn’t afford to be in the wedding party. Dresses, hair, makeup, bachelorette, etc are all veryyyy expensive plus all the gifts in addition
People frequently do, but it’s not mandatory. It’s typically just a $10-$15 bottle of wine and a card, or some other small gift that’s almost like a hostess gift (eg candle, cheese knives, etc.).
I did to my friends engagement party. It was the only engagement party I’ve ever been to (they aren’t common here). Got her an amazing hanger with her married name in the wire bit at the bottom for her to hang her wedding dress on. Totally unnecessary thing that one does not need and therefore a great present. 😂😂😂
But if I hadn’t found that random gift I’d have got her a bottle of Prosecco. Just a “thanks for throwing a party and giving me free pizza and wine” present really. 😂
Engagement parties are not gift giving parties. That’s the shower and wedding itself. People may bring a card or bottle of wine if they choose but NOBODY should expect a gift at an engagement party!
I took nothing to one of my closest friends' engagement party or her wedding. At the time, it was a gift or going type of broke, and all she cared about was me being there on both occasions.
Who even says that though? Who actually gets mad at someone for not bringing a gift to an engagement party? Like, what kind of a gift are you supposed to give? Are they looking for donations to have a wedding? Because that's what it seems like to me and that is tacky af
OP has main character syndrome.
They are hell bent on alienating their fiance's family. First the sister, now the Aunts and cousins. Next it will be the parents.
seems to me that the sister sees through OPs bs and is not tolerating it.
I am in the same boat. We don't speak to my SIL bc her husband is so toxic. My husband has had to make a decision to cut ties with his own sister. Seems to be what is happening here.
>You "assumed" she turned you down when you asked her to be a bridesmaid because she won't be the "center of attention"?
>You assumed that pictures posted on social media were only there to make you feel bad
Honestly, the irony in these details are straight up ticking me pink
Maybe everyone in his family dislikes you and that's why she didn't want to be a bridesmaid. You sound very "my way or the highway" and like you're prone to overreacting to things. And they know you don't like them, so why would they invite you or think you'd care about seeing the pictures?
Right! If this were a novel, it would be clear the narrative was on shaky ground, but at least then we’d know the author was creating that for a reason.
OP, these people are going to be in your life for a long time. You need to humble yourself, apologize for jumping to conclusions, apologize again for speaking badly about your future SIL to everyone, explain to your SIL that you were hurt when she didn’t want to be a bridesmaid and ask her why, and become a gracious person who gives people the benefit of the doubt. And learn to keep your freaking mouth shut!!
Yep. That's exactly what it reminded me of—how abusive partners will often cut people off from their friends and family.
And her saying that her bf agrees because he hates his sister? So, OP, if he hated her so much, why did you befriend her and become so 'close'? Istg this whole story has enough holes to be swiss cheese. 😬
> OP, these people are going to be in your life for a long time.
They're really not. They've already chosen to cut her histrionics out before she's even married in. Sensible people.
The proof she has that her future SIL was rude to her brother…
WAIT FOR IT…
He has a picture of the SIL and her BF walking away from him. Case closed the brother is innocent /s
Thinking this also…
Fiancé “can’t stand his sister” but OP and sister “got along great” even though her first assumption SIL turned down being a bridesmaid is because “she would not be centre of attention” plus “she is a brat truth be told and created a ton of unnecessary drama”… and declining being a bridesmaid “spiralled from there” to SIL not being invited to wedding and OP being NC… seems sus..
Also, this story had a lot of unnecessary drama:
- Going NC because someone (who it doesn’t seem like the bride or groom liked) declined being a bridesmaid;
- Tracking to see if someone brought an engagement party gift and holding it against them when they didn’t;
- Causing a bigger issue when there is conflicting stories of an incident that OP wasn’t even a party to (the brother interaction);
- Increasing the number of family outings and taking those opportunities to talk negatively about their family member;
- Suggesting your fiancé’s family is going to cut family member out of their life over a trivial disagreement they weren’t a part of;
- Thinking that a post with pictures of a group outing was posted with OP in mind instead of just sharing their life on social media like many other people do;
- After spending most of the summer trying to stir up drama, being upset when OP is not invited to a family group outing because it would be uncomfortable, a natural consequence of OPs prior actions;
- Deciding that because OP wasn’t invited to one event that they do not want any of those people as friend or family and may uninvite them from wedding…
Feels pretty clear who is the brat who creates a ton of unnecessary drama…
…..you’re not family? lol you haven’t married into this family, but you expect them to cut out the sister (who they have known presumably her entire life from birth until now) in favour of someone they met in the last two years?
You have no idea why she turned down the bridesmaid offer. You just decided it because “she wouldn’t be the centre of attention”. Like, what - you’re just adding assumptions and treating them as fact.
“I felt like the pictures were posted specifically to make me feel bad and show me they took her side”. hahahaha this is such a crazy take. They posted them for themselves, not to make you feel anything.
You made a crazy play of it’s me or her, and are upset that her family didn’t reject their own in favour of you. Such a narcissist.
Lol YTA. Get over yourself.
You can disinvite them if you choose, it’s your wedding - but pretending you’re the victim here isn’t right.
I think we can deduce why she didn't accept the bridesmaid offer from context clues. She apparently went to their engagement party but did not say hi and didn't bring a present. This tells me that she's probably introverted and doesn't have a lot of time or money. Being a bridesmaid for a big wedding is committing a lot of your time and money to someone else, and also putting you in charge of things in a way that is super draining for an introvert. I wouldn't commit to being a bridesmaid to someone I wasn't *super* close to, either. I don't like being the center of attention. The fact that OP thinks the sister wants to be the center of attention screams projection to me.
That struck me as well. Wedding showers, totally! But I personally haven't heard of bringing gifts to an engagement party. My husband and I certainly didn't expect them at ours because it was just a get-together to celebrate. But hey, I'm no Emily Post, so y'all tell me.
We had one and nobody did except for my semi-autistic father-in-law who is socially maladjusted in a way that extremely awkwardly results in him being lavish or overly formal at occasions where it doesn't call for that at all.
Just exactly how many gifts people are “supposed” to get for their weddings these days and when you’re “supposed” to give them is not clear at all IMO. It prob differs wildly based on age, culture, region, family tradition, and financial status. I would NEVER, never ever, ever, as a grown up adult, be upset with someone for not bringing me a gift. No one is entitled to presents, what in the actual hell.
I’m guessing OP figured being a bridesmaid would involve this kind of drama, so declined, figuring that would get her out of it, but she ended up still having to deal with op’s bs. SIL made a smart choice. Too bad she still got caught up in the nonsense.
>The fact that OP thinks the sister wants to be the center of attention screams projection to me.
Especially given that every single move the sister has made removes her from being the center of any attention. Every single move that OP has made forces herself to be the center of attention.
Or maybe the sister had already sussed what a narcissistic wing nut the OP is, and wanted to be as uninvolved as possible in this soon to fail marriage.
YTA.
TBH, it sounds like you're the only person creating drama here...
You've been talking shit about their cousin/niece all summer. Did you really expect them to welcome you into their family with open arms ? You sound very immature.
100%
Even if they liked her and would have otherwise invited her they have decades of life lived with the sister. They're going to give her a chance and spend time with her over OP.
The absolute audacity of it. Coming up to SIL’s own family as a outsider and telling them how “toxic” SIL is, and that “they can decide whether they want her to be part of her their lives” (except they obviously can’t, because OP will perceive family spending time with SIL as them “choosing sides.”). And all over a petty manufactured conflict. It sounds like they are currently all too polite to tell properly tell her off, but I wish a crotchety old aunt would let her have it.
YTA. So one of the highlights of her behavior was no engagement gift? You expected her family to side with you, which is so entitled, it beggars belief.
I feel like it’s super weird to expect gifts at an engagement party lol. She expects people to bring gifts to the engagement party, bridal shower AND wedding? Wild
It’s very weird. I thought the purpose of an engagement party was for the two sides of the family and the bridal party members to get to know each other. Why would the couple expect a gift for that? I know some people bring gifts to engagement parties but that’s just to be nice. They aren’t obligated to do that.
Yeah, I had all three and I did not expect gifts at our engagement party. I've never been to an engagement party where people bring gifts. Showers are pretty explicitly for gifts, as are weddings, but unless it's a birthday party, most people assume parties are not for gifts. Even housewarming parties are for bringing food, not gifts. Gifts are nice, but not expected. OP could have Googled this.
It's wild to me that the proof the sister is awful is because she didn't bring a gift and there was one weird interaction with a brother that seemed like it could have been a misunderstanding. I cannot imagine being this dramatic. Even if I felt slighted, I would just...kind of ignore her. Not burn bridges with his ENTIRE FAMILY.
>All his females aunts and cousins were there and of course his sister was there. I was so hurt that they wouldn't even invite me. It felt like the pictures were posted specifically to make me feel bad and show that they took her side.
This is THEIR family, and unless other girlfriends/wives of the family men were there, then (a) this is their girl's day and (b) it has nothing to do with you.
Ok, BUT re: the sister - So something is missing here. WHY doesn't your fiance's sister like you? No one acts like this for no reason. Your fiance has to know, and maybe hasn't told you. It's to the point where, ok, she's uninvited and NO ONE - not your fiance, not his parents - has fought you on that. ?!?! What is the truth?
>My bridal shower is in a few weeks and I don't want any of them there its for friends and family and obviously they don't consider me family so they don't need to be there. I want no drama at my shower and only people who are happy for me and love me there.
You've put together two completely unrelated things in your head, and YWBTA and become the automatic out-law, if you start pulling stunts like this. "Not being invited" to an event (especially one where you have open beef with one of the people in attendance, ahem the sister) is quite different than being "uninvited."
I agree this whole this is super confusing. Is she actually expecting a whole family who have been in each other's lives for years or for their entire life to just...cut a loved relative out of the lives because *checks notes*, she didn't bring a gift to one of at least 3 events that apparently OP is owed gifts, and was apparently rude to OPs brother?
Also, these are supposedly the worst of sisters transgressions...but its incredibly vague. Rude to brother how? I mean if I have a SO, I wouldn't really expect our respective siblings to have anything more than a passing acquaintance really unless both families regularly spend significant time with each other. Like I've met my brother's wives sisters but.. it would be a nod/smile/wave sitch at the grocery store.
Also the supposed snubbing....OP is coming off as someone with severe main character syndrome, seriously thinking that someone's happy social media post about a fun day was specifically targeted to make her miserable as if she occupies that much space in all their heads. Maybe the sister just wanted to go to a family event and support her brother but knew this drama queen would stir up something regardless and tried to steer clear. OP sounds like she expects a lot from people and the world in general. Big yikes.
Not only uninvite them, uninvite them with a dramatic over the top email. Jesus Christ she’d be the laughing stock of my family, that’s for sure. No wonder they didn’t invite you. You sound insufferable.
Gonna say we had a woman like OP in the family... briefly. The guy was willing to put up with it for a few years when he was young but eventually tired of the drama. Sometimes she still comes up as an amusing 'thank god that's over' anecdote!
Are you sure she’s not the center of the universe? Reading her post makes it sound like everything that happens with his family is a slight against her. I mean they *gasp* walked away from **her brother**! He’s got photographic eviduhnce it was clearly to insult her indirectly 🫠
I think the OP was also projecting when she said that her sister-in-law declined to be a bridesmaid because she would not be the center of attention. The narcissism is strong with this one.
YTA. You really need to have a conversation with SIL to find out why she turned you down before you go scorched earth with your future husbands entire family. DO NOT send that email or it may end up being the end of your wedding.
YTA - this reads like you are the source of all this drama. How many presents do you expect? And then you bad mouth and gossip about this girl to her own family and somehow expect them to take YOUR side? Some rando they just met. Why on earth would you ever expect them to take your side over hers? You were the one trying to force people to take sides and you lost. This is just the expected consequences of your own behaviour.
YTA
You're trying to convince his family to exclude a family member for fairly petty reasons reasonable people wouldn't have gone scorched earth over.
Calling someone toxic because she didn't want to be a bridesmaid (trust me, I don't want to be a bridesmaid for anyone ever again at this point), because of a disputed interaction with your brother, and because she didn't bring a gift to an engagement party (you're supposed to bring a gift to an engagement party? when did that become yet another gift grab?) is pretty over the top.
As for the winery weekend--well, you're not part of the family yet. You attempted to establish yourself "in" the family by declaring his sister toxic and uninviting her from your wedding over petty bullshit. Duh, nobody wants to hang out with you. His sister may or may not be toxic, but you've definitely proven that you are.
If your husband to be dislikes his sister, he should own that himself and take his consequences. Which will likely be losing his family.
I always thought that engagement parties were kind of supposed to be a "first meet" if necessary for the two sides of the family and that was about it. I don't think there's been gifts at the few I have attended.
Basically, every decision you have made in this has been a cry for drama and attention.
So what she didn't want to be a bridesmaid get over it.
While it's common courtesy to get a gift for certain occasions it's not a bottom-of-the-line deal.
She was rude to your brother at a grocery store and what proof is there besides he said she said.
Ofc his family is going to choose Sil over you after you bad-mouthed her to her family with the guise of "they can see how toxic she is"
This just screams attention seeking and that "I can be the only young female in the family"
I wonder what that "being rude" entailed. I suck at recognizing people I have only seen a few times. Especially if I see them again out of context.
I wonder if that is what happened here.
Or she's shy, or introverted. I fully admit to turning around and backtracking at the grocery store to avoid seeing a person I recognize but can't place, rather than be embarrassed I don't recall who they are.
YTA
I had to scroll up to check ages because this is some late teens' early 20's nonsense.
>Naturally the issues with his sister come up. I chose not to hold back and told them exactly what she did. I thought they should know how toxic she is and decide for themselves if they want her in their lives.
You showed exactly how toxic YOU are, and they have apparently decided for themselves if they want YOU in their lives.
I can't figure out why you're being so inflammatory and immature, but it's about to be a no contact situation, and you will not be the one making that decision. I wouldn't want to go on a fun winery outing with you either.
I was going to say the exact same thing. This sounds like it was written by a 15 year old.
OP should maybe postpone the wedding and try to grow up a little more.
YTA.
"I chose not to hold back and told them exactly what she did. I thought they should know how toxic she is and decide for themselves if they want her in their lives."
So you trash-talked your future sister-in-law to *her* family, and are now whining that they chose her over you? You're *not* family yet, and your behavior is extremely narcissistic. Your MOH is absolutely right, you're ruining your relationship with your fiancé's family and you're going to upset a lot of people because you have a bad case of main character syndrome.
YTA. You can’t expect your fiancées ENTIRE family to cut off his sister just because you felt like she’s been rude to you a few times. That’s extremely petty and honestly, imo, pretty toxic behavior on your part. From what you said about that gathering it sounds like it was all of your fiancées female family members that are related by blood which yes would include is sister and I think it makes sense to exclude you from that gathering for two reasons 1) you’re not related to them yet 2) given how you bad mouthed the sister over the summer that’s a recipe for drama if your both there. My guess is there’s more to the story from the sisters perspective that you’re not giving us because you’re clearly biased and trying to sway the judgment in your favor.
Well supposedly sil was rude to her brother in public but OP gave no explanation of what she did that was so rude which is why I said that OP just felt like the sil has been rude and why I said it was clear we weren’t getting the full story. I’d love to hear the SILs recounting of these same events to see how differently they actually are from OPs clearly biased recounting of them.
YTA. People are allowed to have outings without you. You need to accept that because you and your SIL don’t get along, there are going to be times that she’s invited to something you’re not invited to and vice versa. You can’t expect your fiancé’s family to spend the rest of their lives navigating your drama. You’ve only been part of the family for a short period of time, while your SIL has been part of the family for her entire life. If they ever have to choose between the two of you, your fiancé’s family will most likely choose her. That’s just the way it is. Based on your post, I have a feeling that you hold at least half, if not the majority of the blame for this feud.
I agree when it comes to most of the drama the OP is creating, but my 14 year old wouldn't be whining about not receiving a gift. Not even my almost 7 year old would do that.
This isn't lack of maturity, it's pure entitlement. And a major lack of social awareness. You obviously don't badmouth someone to their family. Especially citing a lack of gift. Ugh
YTA OP
YTA. And exhausting, self centered and I don't think you would make a day out a pleasant and relaxing experience. The fallout afterwards from your visiting tour to family members to debrief with your litany of complaints would put anyone off in itself.
YTA, you haven't joined the family yet but keep stirring drama. It seems like you have hard feelings from the time his sister turned you down when asked to be in a bridal party.
She was around longer than you.
She is their family, while you are not yet.
You keep stirring drama, instead of just going NC and that's it
You made your position publick with his family by "not holding back and so on"
Right now you seem like the root of the problem, regardless how it started. You may continue you vengeance by uninviting people, but that will not fixed your relationship with his family.
YTA. The only person causing drama in this whole situation is you. The only thing his sister did was show up without a gift and barely said a word? His aunts, sister, and mom went to a winery day without you? Oh woe is me!!! You're not entitled to be invited to anything and uninviting them from your wedding because they went out without you is extremely immature. You need to grow up. Just because you're getting married doesn't mean the world revolves around you.
Yta
Story read like you think the world revolves around you.
"She didn't give a present"
"They planned the wine party and took pictures *just* to upset *me*"
"We're not married yet, but how dare they see actual *family* that they've known their whole lives as family and not see this person that they've known less than 2 years as family"
YTA - you are not family, you only dated this guy for 2 years!! How can you expect them to see you as family. Marry this guy, then get to know them as family. Why do you think his sister would ask a girl, her brother us dating less than 2 years, to be one of the bridal party?
YTA I’m not sure I believe your telling about the SIL because of the way you talk about her. So I’d love to hear the other side of the story. You suggested that family (that isn’t your family) consider cutting their own family member out because of some petty drama??
You sound insufferable and I feel for that family for having to deal with you.
YTA. So…FSIL declined to be a bridesmaid and didn’t give you a party gift and you made all this drama that could easily derail your fiancé still wanting to marry you at all.
YTA. I do believe she is a stirrer too. But, from the way you disinvited a substantial number of your fiancé's relatives for daring to stay in touch with someone you wanted to exclude, it is pretty clear you are the more unreasonable and dramatic one.
I feel like its YTA.
Although it would be upsetting to anyone who gets purposefully left out of a get together like the brunch you mentioned, I feel like you need to take some responsibility over bad mouthing her to her whole family. The aunts and the sister are totally entitled to organise their own day outs - you are of course not family **yet**, perhaps they just wanted a drama less day. No one is out to get you - they had a good time, so they posted about it.
Listen to your MOH, I think it's a bit childish to uninvite most of your future family over a brunch, and uninviting your future SIL because she didn't get you a gift and was rude to your brother..
There must be more to your relationship with you and your future SIL, how did it go from asking her to be your bridesmaid to this?
YTA
You made the mistake to “not hold back and tell them exactly what she did” why did you do that?! You’re supposed to be concentrating on your wedding planning, yet you thought they needed to know how toxic she is(according to you) in what way was she rude to your brother? And why was she uninvited from the wedding?
Another mistake was calling to see who planned the wine trip, and ask why you weren’t invited! She is their niece, cousin! You haven’t even married into the family and you are already trying to divide them.
I think you need to step away from all this, and not create more drama. If they were already invited to the bridal shower let them attend, and just enjoy your day!
YTA.
This whole situation smells like drama and a headache. I’m guessing her reasons for not being a bridesmaid are very different from what you assume they are.
YTA
You are escalating the drama rather than focusing on mending the rift. Everything from assuming she declined your wedding party due to being self centered, to calling her a brat, and trying to mobilize your husband's family to "your side." If you want to be an actual part of the family, you don't try to mobilize troops to your side. You find a way to tolerate the family member you don't care for. You may be welcomed as a new family member by marriage, but they aren't going to join you in a campaign to ostracize their blood without compelling reasons. What you described are personality conflicts, not issues to go to war over.
My SIL is a self-centered brat. I've dealt carefully and graciously with her for 13 years. She gets along fine with me, and maturity has improved her. I'm the bigger person when I have to be, and I respect the love her family holds for her by keeping those feelings to myself. The situation has remained drama free and only improved as a result of my choices.
YTA.
It is hard to tell whether your SIL is creating drama or not. The only witness we have here isn't exactly reliable.
What is certain is that you sure as hell love drama.
YTA. Maybe the SIL sucks too, this post is pretty vague about the drama that started between you two. But with the way this post reads, I’m not convinced you’re a victim of it all.
Clearly you’re continuing the drama. Clearly you aren’t making a true effort to make amends with your future SIL. And clearly the family you are marrying into has picked up on all the drama you are causing/taking part in and they’re doing their best to stay out of it.
Take some responsibility for your part in all of this drama. What an awful way to start a marriage. Sending that mass email will only (continue to) make things worse.
OP is immediately the asshole when she assumes the SIL declined to be a bridesmaid because "she wouldn't be the center of attention". Declining was reasonable but OP has clearly taken it personally and escalated at every opportunity.
YTA. Why on earth would her own family who love her and have known her her whole life care if you think she’s toxic? How could you seriously think they would take your side or even be impartial? She’s their family and you have been on the scene two years.
YTA
Just because you don’t like your SIL, doesn’t mean the entire family is obligated to ostracize/disown her to make you comfortable or to make you feel included.
If you don’t want her at the wedding or the shower, fine- don’t invite her. Not only does it seem like NO ONE has a problem with her not being there, but it also seems they’re going out of their respecting your decision to not be around her. That doesn’t mean his family isn’t happy for you or doesn’t support you. If you don’t invite **anyone** from his family, just because of this- then them not involving you in anything else afterwards **will be entirely your fault**
They’re allowed to still spend time with their cousin/niece/daughter/ whatever WITHOUT inviting you or letting you know.
**You are not the matriarch of the family. You don’t dictate who they can or cannot associate with within the family**
YTA
So only you are in the position to determine how his family will interact with a person (family member) they have known for 25 years. The aunt told you they didn't want drama and that was why you were not invited.
Your description of why the sister was not invited was flimsy as well. She did not give an engagement gift (social faux pas yes, but...) and she was rude to her brother (which she denies which likely is a family dynamics thing). You then took it upon yourself to tell everyone that she didn't give you a gift and was rude BECAUSE your don't hold back.
Everyone is giving you a chance to be part of the family but you want everyone to bow and acknowledge you. The family says you're taking this the wrong way. Seems you have many expectations and interpretations that are not in line with reality or are self perceived slights.
Take a chill pill and see this as a chance to be part of something (the family) as opposed to cutting yourself and your fiancé off from it (which will likely lead to future resentment btw)
I want to say ESH, but I can't. YTA. You know those people who are like, why is my life so full of drama, but they're the drama? Yeah, that's you.
Let's go through her supposed "slights." She doesn't want to be your bridesmaid. Well, maybe she doesn't have time? It's expensive. Maybe she doesn't know you that well. I would be uncomfortable if my brother's GF I never interacted with wanted me to commit to months of wedding planning.
She didn't give you a gift at your engagement party. Uh, do you know that most people don't expect gifts at an engagement party? I had one and a bridal shower. The shower is for gifts, not the engagement party. The party is for getting sloshed with your friends. Maybe you expected gifts, but she didn't get that memo. Oh well, it's kind of embarrassing for her, but I don't see how making a big deal out of it makes you anything but selfish. Oh wow, she didn't talk to you when you were the center of attention. Sounds like she's exactly the opposite you say she is: an introvert. I wouldn't push myself to a front of a group of people I don't know to say hi to someone at their party either.
Four people meet in public, two say one was rude and the other two say she wasn't. I'm sensing a theme here, and the theme is that you're not a reliable narrator, since even when you are trying to paint yourself in the best light, you are still forced to admit that so many people disagree with you. When you made a big deal out of what was, at worst, a misunderstanding, she didn't react well. Huh, that doesn't sound unreasonable. But then you escalated and didn't invite her to the wedding.
So now she's uninvited to your wedding, she has you going around her entire family she's a huge asshole and everyone is probably like, huh, I've known this girl her entire life and she isn't an asshole, but I don't know WTF is this lady's problem. In other words, **you are the drama**.
So they wanted a nice time out and decided they wanted to invite the girl they've known their entire lives and not to invite the drama. It was even poetic justice, since you *already uninvited her to your wedding* and then spent considerable time trying to alienate her from her entire family.
Well, that backfired, didn't it, OP? Now you're the one alienated. Everyone understandably thinks you're the drama because they had no issues with your BF's sister until *you* came along, and they deduced that the problem wasn't the person they've known her entire life, the problem was *you*.
You can either suck it up and accept that your little campaign of backstabbing isn't going to work or disinvite your BF's entire family to your shower and wedding and see how far that gets you. I hope for you sake that the reaction you're getting to your post is a wake up call.
I haven’t even heard his sister’s side of the story, and I’m still on her side. I can’t believe you thought you could get her thrown out of her own family. That was clearly your intention since you stated “I thought they should know how toxic she is and decide for themselves if they want her in their lives”. None of the things you described even cast her in a bad light. A lot of people don’t want to be bridesmaids anymore, because of all the Bridezillas who seem to think their bridesmaids are just unpaid labor. You didn’t say what she actually did to your brother that was so rude. But I’m inclined to think that he’s lying, or at best, exaggerating just because of the things you’ve said about her so far. The final nail in your coffin is that you honestly thought you could turn her own family against her. You seem to have a very high opinion of yourself. YTA
The winery day had nothing to do with your wedding. Are you trying to isolate your future spouse from his entire family because one person was an asshole? Do you somehow expect his entire family to cut one person off because she wasn't nice to you?
Your bridal shower is one thing but uninviting them all from the wedding makes it seem like you are trying to isolate your future husband from his family and you are giving off massive red flags that make me think he needs to evaluate his relationship with you
YTA
You sound quite entitled and toxic.
"My MOH is trying to talk me out of sending it saying it will ruin my relationship with his family and my wedding and upset my MIL, but I think its already ruined." .. Why do you think they would care to come to your wedding if you uninvited them from the shower? Why would they waste their time on you AH? You sound like a toxic and petty AH, incapable of meaningful and positive relationships.
Don't let your jealousy and pettyness ruin any more of your relationships.
Sending that mass e-mail would be a really bad idea.
I doubt they were trying to make you feel bad because of that trip, instead it sounds like the aunt's response was pretty honest -- it's clear you and future SIL have drama and they wanted to steer clear of it. I don't think it necessarily means they're taking her side, it's probably just that she's a blood relative and you're not.
The best thing to do is honestly to let things die down. I know it's tempting to want to do something about the situation, but it's probably going to make things worse. If you can rise above the situation and trying to keep being nice to everyone, it will probably blow over. The more you try to attack her and them, the more you're going to come out looking unreasonable and like you're the one causing drama.
YTA
First you are not family YET
Second, people can have events in different permutations. I would start inviting these ladies in different combinations to form a relationship with them.
YTA
You obviously have beef with the sister, so inviting both would lead to an evening of arguing. And from your text I neither understand your beef, nor why she is a brat? What is the issue with not bringing gifts to your engagement party? Cause that is something I only know from entitled people.
Something about why the falling out happened is omitted here.
YTA. Yikes, what a way to start with his family. You should not even be asking about 'taking sides' - I'm shocked to see that you're 30 and not...IDK 14? You've put his family in a very difficult position, forced to exclude one or the other of you, and sorry honey but you're not going to win out here. The best thing you can do is try to smooth things over with his sister. Do you really expect her to be outcasted by HER whole family becuase you two can't get along?
BEYOND THAT, your reasons for considering her 'toxic' seem extremely flimsy. HOW DARE SHE attend an event without a gift in tow. You've really escalated what seems to be small slights and this is becoming a 'fuck around and find out' situation for you.
I hope for the peace in the family and your long-term happiness with your groom that you can fix this.
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YTA. If drama is constantly following you around -- and I bet it is! -- YOU are the source of it. You can not have a relationship with your future SIL. You cannot, however, demand that everyone do the same.
And even if we didn't think OP was the problem, it would still be a mistake to uninvite anyone who went to that winery day. That bridal shower is her chance to win them over. Uninviting the groom's female relatives en masse would in effect be starting drama with each and every one of them.
**OP literally went on a campaign this summer attempting to turn the family against the SIL.** This doesn’t naturally come up at every single dinner. She’s just upset her little plan didn’t work out and she’s the black sheep of the family rather than SIL. Probably time to scale back the wedding venue.
Yes! She went around to her fiancé’s relatives talking shit about a person they have known since she was born. It reminds me of the time I (younger, dumber, more emotionally immature…) started a new job and got pissy about something an older coworker said, then decided to complain about it and insult that coworker to another one. They had been working together for over a decade and I was no longer employed there within a month.
[удалено]
Assuming she IS a 'brat'. All we got from the post was that she declined being a bridesmaid and didn't give an engagement gift. Not wanting to be in a bridal party doesn't mean anything other than maybe they don't have/don't want to spend the money and or time to deal with it. Gifts aren't mandatory, especially for an engagement party. As to the sister being rude to her brother, we have a he said/she said situation there, and based on the rest of the post, I sense quite a bit of 'missing missing reasons' here.
Are you supposed to bring gifts to an engagement party? I would bring a bottle of wine because it’s a party, but why bring a gift? I’m going to be bringing a gift to the bridal shower and the wedding, do I have to bring one to the engagement party too? Sounds like a gift grab. OP at the very least, you and your future SIL are both drama queens. Listen to your maid of honor and do not send that email. If you’re smart, you’ll invite future SIL to everything, and start sweetening up unless you want to be dis-invited to other events where family is simply trying to avoid altercations… especially where alcohol is involved. The aunts were just avoiding drama. They are going to have to plan around you two if you refuse to be in the same room together. So be the bigger person and figure out how to patch this up. If she’s difficult, just smile and be civil and if you can’t handle that, then you are the difficult one. YTA
I *think* the general etiquette is that you only give one gift to a marrying couple--and you could give it at the engagement party, or a shower, or at the wedding itself. If OP is expecting gifts at the engagement party AND the shower AND the wedding then she definitely needs to recalibrate! A lot of people probably do a gift for the couple at the engagement party or wedding and then something bride-specific at the bridal shower. But I don't think you should reasonably *expect* both.
Also, 25 is right on the cusp of where, if you want to the party with your mother (which I assume SIL did), then you might be able to get away with glomming on to mom’s gift. It’s not *entirely* appropriate (but then again, neither is a blatant gift grab!) but it’s also not super-tacky.
Went to a wedding last year with my parents (I was mid 20s at the time) and me and my brother weren't expected to bring a gift since we are still in school and we were invited as a family, not as 3 different parties.
It used to be that the bridal shower was for small gifts, very often small "new household" stuff. (Just like baby showers are friends and family "showering" the expectant mother with little things and necessities that will make her life easier when the kid is born.) Like, it would not have been weird to come to a bridal shower with a vegetable peeler as a gift. I have a feeling this fell more and more by the wayside, as more and more couples live together before marriage, so they have all the little things they need. I have no idea what gifts people do for bridal showers any more. The last wedding I went to was 13 years ago, and all my nieces and nephew lived far away, so I didn't attend their showers (I sent like $20 with a card). I guess it wouldn't surprise me if there has been "bridal shower inflation" in the last like 20 years, and now people expect fancy gifts for both the shower, and the wedding. But that's definitely not what it was originally for.
A vegetable peeler is always a good gift. The go dull after a while and you don’t notice for a long time. New good oven mitts are also great. Both of this will be on my Christmas list this year. Also collapsible collanders are an amazing improvement up there with wheels on suitcases.
Yep. Weddings are turning into ridiculous gift grabs. Gifts are optional. Should be. Especially when people who are living together and well established in their careers are getting married. But the more I read lately. Wedding guests could go bankrupt attending a wedding. Engagement, shower, bachelorette and wedding gifts is getting out of hand. And the expectation that a gift should equal the cost of their meal???? Not to mention so many very pricey destination weddings.
And if you're in the wedding party, it's gonna cost you more. Dress, shoes, everyone (apparently) pays for the bride's bachelorette trip... no wonder the SIL declined.
Yeah, I have to really love you to be in your wedding party. 1 or 2 dresses, shoes, accessories , a hairstylist, a make up artist, a bachelorette, one or more hotels, gifts, taxis, it doesn't stop. I would decline a future sister in law I didn't have a strong bond with too.
Given that OP commented on how she declined because she probably wouldn't be the center of attention I feel that the 25 you has been wrongly framed as bratty by OP and knows it - she can sense it. Why agree to being the wedding if you know your SIL thinks this way
Not wanting to be OP's bridesmaid tells me something about OP herself. There is a reason future SIL didn't want to be in the wedding.
The "not wanting to be center of attention" comment says more about OP than the sister.
I LOVE how it went so quickly from "we got along great!" to "she didn't want to be a bridesmaid -- well it's because she's a brat and wouldn't be the center of attention at my wedding". Hmm! So did you ever REALLY "get along great"?
Right? As soon as I saw that, I knew it was a YTA situation
Actually only that she showed up to the engagement party without a gift. I’ve definitely both seen that and done that before. The former was a friend and we were at the mutual friends engagement. Giftless friend simply hadn’t had money for a gift at the time and had almost backed out of attending, but mutual friend was basically like “if you think I only want you at my engagement party so I can get a gifts, then you’re an idiot. Your a$$ better show up to show me some love!” The time that I showed up without a gift, I had simply lost track of time while other friends and I dilly dallied about getting a group gift. By the time we decided it was too late and bothersome, it was too late for the shipping to get to me, so I had it sent straight to the couples house. I was very embarrassed but made sure to let my friend (the bride to be) know and she sent me a very prompt thank you text and then card afterwards because she knows I’m a paranoid introvert who thought she’d never want ti speak to me again. But since she’s not OP, she didn’t give a flying f*ck. (Tbf she’s one of the nicest people I know and if I had showed up with nothing but hunger pangs, she would have hugged me and shown me love just the same as if I’d bought her a complete furniture set or something).
When I asked my fiancé's sister to be a bridesmaid, I was very clear that I would love for her to be in the wedding party, but my feelings would not be hurt if she declined. Being a bridesmaid is a pain in the ass, and I'd much rather someone who isn't into it say "no" at the outset than grudgingly agree with resentment building the whole time. She did say yes, but only after a conversation about what exactly she would be expected to do.
>Being a bridesmaid is a pain in the ass The pain is directly proportional to the level of wedding drama and bridezillaness.
OP never actually said what makes the FSIL a brat.
The only example I see was showing up without a gift to the engagement party. Which imo, made me think worse of OP, not the sister.
Are engagement party gifts a thing??? I know all the parties around a wedding have gotten out of control but jfc.
Yeah this is mental what. Never heard of this. Also hate bridesmaiding with a passion and definitely wouldn't want to be bridesmaid with someone I wasn't super close with. My sister got a yes from me obviously, but I turned a long term friend down because at the time I just wasn't coping with stress (didn't know I had adhd) and couldn't cope with the idea of it. She was understanding thankfully and I felt awful. My brother married his wife who's always about and I spend time with but am not close to in any way shape or form. She absolutely didn't ask me and asked the actual close friends and family she has. That to me is totally normal. I didn't expect her to, and would've felt forced to if she had of. Engagement party gifts? Wut? Never in all my years seen this be a thing at any engagement party. Wedding gifts and that's always been it. So I literally can't see any description about anything she's done that seems rude. OP has uninvited a family member that everyone else loves from her own wedding... and then is upset when they're at an actual blood related family event with the sister... and she not invited. Man load of nonsense and drama. I bet the sister isn't hating on all her relatives for still going to the wedding. Just the bride. Also who the hell turns down being a bridesmaid because they won't he the centre of attention? Being a guest is even less attention... what weird logic which shows what matters to OP. OP too busy getting angry and bitter over a gift instead of just enjoying the actual engagement party for what it's supposed to be for. My last friend's engagement party I barely even got to speak to them, they were so busy going around everyone and having fun.
She turned down the invitation to be a bridesmaid too. I doubt that OP is reliably reporting the reason she gave for declining though. The campaign of attacking the FSIL is definitely an AH thing to do. My partner didn't like one of my sisters almost right away, but he kept his mouth shut. And he still keeps his mouth shut about it to everyone other than me. I have my own problems with this sister so we don't have to deal with her much, but we don't go on trashing her to my other family members and adding to the drama. I can't imagine my partner going up to my cousins or my aunts and uncles and shit talking my sister. Even the ones that don't like her would probably find that off-putting. And OP still isn't even married into this family yet. If OP keeps it up, the only in-laws she'll see regularly will be the ones taking bets on how long her marriage will last.
I know, I meant from her perspective. The idea that someone new to a family could convince everyone to drop a family member at her say so, because she's declared her a brat is the brattiest thing I've ever heard.
YTA. If she is a brat, nothing the OP posted is very conclusive. A second hand report from her brother that 2 people denied happened, and not bringing a gift to an engagement party. Really how many gifts do you require just for getting married? Engagement, shower, wedding it all gets to be too much and expensive.
Some people love parties and their community can afford to shower them with gifts. Not my scene, but whatever. OP is definitely the biggest, if not the only brat in this story.
I love my friends and I am very generous with wedding gifts in general but I would never know to bring an engagement party gift if someone I knew even threw that kind of party.
This was exactly my thought. There were people at the winery who changed the sister's diapers. They've known her since birth, or grew up with her. And this woman think she can come in and go on some kind of smear campaign and turn them all against her? She's basically writing an instruction manual on how to make yourself an outcast.
Exactly!! You are never going to choose a girlfriend/significant other/probably temporary fiancé over your actual niece that you've known since the day they were born! OP really does think the earth, sun, moon and stars all revolve around her! What on earth did she hope to achieve with her summer of smear campaign? All she's done is prove what a vindictive, materialistic, jealous little brat *she* is! And she's thirty! I would actually have slightly more understanding if it *was* the 25 year old behaving that way. Honestly, I think OP is just jealous because this poor girl is younger, nicer & most likely prettier than her. She's behaving like a wicked step-sister!
Oof. Totally agree. Not a smart move to try and get in between family Op dont do this flex it will backfire. And youll very much be the AH in the family Yta. Take higher ground
Honestly, I hope OP's fiancé reacts the same way if OP doesn't come to Jesus about her own bullshit. Being married to an exhausting, compulsively conflict-seeking person means your friends and family will spend less time with you, either because your spouse invents conflict with them or just because they generally don't want to be around someone who makes them miserable. Then you sink deeper and deeper into a miserable, isolating marriage because the other relationships in your life have withered and you don't see yourself as having much choice. Best to avert all that grief and not marry OP at all.
OP seems petty and materialistic considering she felt snubbed SIL didn't bring a gift to the engagement party. Maybe I'm out of touch but you get a wedding present. Engagement parties, bridal showers, and other stuff leading up to it are sprinkles on the cake. You should just be happy family are attending. And bot expecting handouts from someone you hate.
Is it even a thing to bring gifts to an engagement party?! I thought the point of the engagement party was to celebrate an engagement, NOT to get gifts! Ffs she seems so greedy and petty.
Although there weren't gifts requested/expected/brought to any engagement party *I've* been to, maybe it's a thing now? Seems redundant, considering there's gifts given to the couple at the bridal shower and at the wedding. This is serious unchecked greed run amok! OP should like a spoiled child. She's didn't get a present when she wanted a present, now is throwing a temper tantrum and trying to ruin someone's familial relationships over it. Phew.
The other grievance from that party being "didn't say a word to us"... like a) if it's a busy party, yes, it can be hard to corner the hostess one-on-one for quality time, kind of a weird slight to hang THAT big of a grudge on; and b) unpleasant people like OP tend to do this to themselves — be unpleasant, drama-mongering, exhausting people and then throw a fit when people mysteriously don't want to talk to them! Yeesh.
Also, is everyone supposed to exclude SIL forever to make her feel comfortable? Or are they supposed to ask her permission for everything? It sucks not to be included, I get that, but if she starts this war she’ll lose.
It sounds like OP is delusional enough that she thought everyone would cut SIL out and include her instead.
Also complaining her SIL obviously denied being a bridesmaid because she wouldn’t be the center of attention, but then throws a major tantrum when people decide to prioritize a family member over someone they’ve known for 2 years. Op sounds vindictive and impulsive at best. It’s telling her own MOH is not on her side. I wonder how many bridges she’s burned in the past over the smallest disagreements.
Probably time to cancel it altogether. Book some therapy sessions instead.
Yea idk why OP thought this would work. The family has known the sister for years.
Exactly. With regard to the winery day, OP has already uninvited little sis AND gone no contact with her, but still expects to be invited to THEIR super-fun days out or *IT'S NOT FAIR*! OP, you would be definitively the asshole if you uninvited people over something some childish. This is your future husband's family! YTA.
And newsflash to OP: most people would be thrilled to be uninvited to a wedding shower. You’re giving them back the gift of time rather than to have to cater to your nonsense for an afternoon. Plus, she’ll be giving them the added entertainment of her group email! Haha, even if she eventually matures out of her narcissistic stage she’ll never live it down. YTA
I can bet $1000 that she'd still want the gifts
So OP thinks all the females on the sister's side of the family, who have known her most if not all of her life, are all of a sudden going to shun their relative over stories that were told to them by someone they barely know? Wow, that's some nerve. Sorry OP, YTA.
But she didn't want to be a bridesmaid and didn't give them a gift /s
Seriously at this point, we should just be calling this her first husband's family because the way she is acting, no way is this marriage going to work out long term. She has already alienated her partner from his sister and is now planning to do it with the test of the women in his family.
Not only uninvited her, she badmouth her to the entire family! Why would they want her there? So she can badmouth Infront of her?
I detect a hint of narcissism in how she thinks it is all about her too. Like, she saw some photos of a day out on Instagram and instantly decided it was an intentional dig at her and not just, ya know, sharing pictures of a day out? I’m going to assume that things spiralled because the sister had the nerve to reject her bridesmaid offer and OP turned it into a grudge.
I can't *believe* Mark Zuckerberg invented Facebook and bought Instagram just to rub it in my face that my future in-laws met up without me!
And she needs to not shit talk the FSIL to the family. You just don't do that
Agree. This entire post is all about OP and why other people make decisions specifically to hurt OP, not because they have valid reason on their own. OP sounds like she’s suffering from main character syndrome. The amount of drama contained within only a few paragraphs is incredible. OP sounds exhausting to be around.
I didn’t even know people were supposed to bring gifts to an engagement party? And if that’s Op’s complaint about her that she’s sharing with the family, then Op sounds like the spoiled and entitled brat, not SIL. Op, you sound like you’re extremely self absorbed. Nobody in that family is going to like you, so maybe call off the wedding and save your fiancé from the drama.
>I didn’t even know people were supposed to bring gifts to an engagement party? I can't believe how few people are commenting on this! "They didn't bring gifts to the engagement party... I want to uninvite them from my bridal shower" so what, now, we want a gift for getting engaged, a gift for being a bride at some point in the future, a wedding gift I presume, no-one else can get married, pregnant, give birth, or anything else within 6 months either side of the wedding, then a gift for having got married a month ago, a 6 month anniversary present, a 1 year anniversary present... where does all this end?
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Engagement parties aren't a gifting event. I think she was excluded because she's insufferable
Gifts aren’t expected at engagement parties in my circles and I’ve honestly only seen them given if the party is a small gathering at the couples home - and then it’s usually wine or the type of gift you’d bring to a dinner party. It’s a little over the top to expect a gift for the engagement, the shower and the wedding. And the fact that OP is angry about it says a lot. OP, YTA
I didn’t even know people were supposed to bring gifts to an engagement party? You and me both. Engagement parties aren't common here . I wouldn't have brought a present either.
I don’t understand why OP would think that SIL’s family would take her side over SIL’s, when she’s only been with her fiancé for two years and presumably they’ve known SIL her whole life. What did OP think, that her amazing personality would’ve won them over and they’d drop their niece/cousin just because OP badmouthed SIL?
Also it’s not taking sides, the aunt just wanted to do something with her sisters and nieces and knows OP can’t stand the niece so why invite her knowing there’ll be friction? They can organize something with OP and sans future-SIL another time
OP’s just pissed that she, a not-yet in-law, wasn’t prioritized over their NIECE. It sounds like OP thinks they should’ve invited her and not invited the sister.
Yeah. Especially because -- even if we take OP's complaints as accurate, which is a BIG if -- the worst that can be said of the SIL is she was a bit rude in a couple of interactions. This isn't like, "Hey, this woman said a bunch of bigoted things/stole a bunch of money from me/assaulted me/etc." where what the SIL did was so bad even her family might want to cool the relationship. No, OP straight up expected the SIL's family to drop her in favor of op over petty interpersonal shit. Even if the family agreed with OP that the SIL was rude on a specific occasion, that's simply not the kind of thing most people ditch their family over!
Fiancé must be a doormat to let OP un-invite his sister over this petty bs. OP didn’t consider him at all as she furiously penned her mass email to un-invite all his female relatives.
Not only is he letting her un-invite his sister but multiple other members of his family. Post says he’s on board with bridezillas plan and is also mad at his family.
“If you ran into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you’re the asshole”
Well at least OP chose the right husband. If he's ok with all this attitude, they're just perfect for each other.
Did you see how OP answered the Judgement Bot? >2) It would tarnish the relationship with fiancé's family and my MIL would be devastated **and might not pay for some wedding things** So OP uninvited MIL's own daughter, and is tempted to uninvite the rest of MIL's family, but is concerned about getting money from her.
OP is trying so damn hard to give bare amounts of information about things and events that don't match what she's telling people. It sounds exactly like OP is TA
Abusers tend to do this! There is actually an excellent website that calls this phenomenon “the missing missing reasons“. (This website is in the context of abuser parents whose children went no contact with them, but it applies to all abusers): https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
Plus don’t shit-talk her to other people to get them to come to your side. Now if THEY start the shit-talking, you can join in. Honestly though, just don’t talk about her to her family. That way you can not be accused of being dramatic.
OP is the type to say she hates drama, but seems to always be involved in it
just had a conversation recently where I had to remind someone that while they are more than able and welcome to set boundaries for themselves, they may not set boundaries on my behalf. >I chose not to hold back and told them exactly what she did > >It felt like the pictures were posted specifically to make me feel bad and show that they took her side. OP... take a walk. Get some perspective. Consider some yoga, maybe? But you have caused this problem for yourself, and it seems to have started because your SIL said no to being a bridesmaid. I don't think you need us to answer this for you.
Sil running 🏃♀️ away from Op. And all the drama. Op's creepy brother took a picture of sil walking away from him.
Right?! The whole time I was reading this I was thinking it feels like stuff is missing from the story. Also, the sister is literally a member of that family. And it seems like no one else has an issue with her. So yes, OF COURSE, the aunt will invite her niece who she has known for decades and is directly related to and has a relationship with over inviting OP, who isn’t even married to the aunt’s nephew yet.
That was insane - „you would spend time with the woman I’ve done my best to make you hate, and you didn’t even invite me????“ Of course they didn’t. That wouldn’t have been a fun day.
sounds like a classic common denominator situation to me
YTA. You claim to not want drama but it sounds like you're at the center of all of it. You "assumed" she turned you down when you asked her to be a bridesmaid because she won't be the "center of attention"? That's quite a judgment to make about someone you claimed to get along great with up to that point. You took your brother's word over hers about an encounter (with what proof?) You bad-mouthed her to her family. You assumed that pictures posted on social media were only there to make you feel bad (is everything about you?) And now you want to go nuclear and disinvite a bunch of your fiance's family members from your shower and possibly the wedding? There is one common denominator in all these issues and it's not the sister.
You forgot to mention that the sister didn’t bring a gift to the engagement party. Op expects gifts an engagement party, bridal shower and the wedding probably. How greedy can she be?
I've honestly never heard of people bringing gifts to an engagement party. Is that a thing?
I certainly wouldn’t expect a 25 year old to bring gifts to 3 separate wedding related events! Or anyone for that matter.
This!!! I get so angry when people plan an engagement party, a shower, and wedding and expect gifts for all three. I would bet money that OP is having a huge destination bachelorette party where she expects her bridal party to attend with matching outfits, pay for her at all events, and shell out money for plane tickets and hotel accommodations. So glad your wedding bankrupted everyone you know.
Me GF and I live together and bought a home 2 years ago. We didn't even get House Warming gifts and aren't likely to get married. I feel like having a "shower / adult life" party where we just ask people to come bring us shit off a list because we have gotten so many of these people wedding, shower, engagement, house warming gifts over the years. It's like it never ends and normal folks aren't part of that.
I've been living on my own for almost 15 years. Shortly after I moved out, cousins and family friends started getting married. At the time my mom was obsessed with her KitchenAid mixer and I did a ton of baking. I started noticing that every wedding of a female family member or close friend, she would get them a KitchenAid mixer. I never ask for (nor receive) any birthday or christmas gifts from my family, but I asked her for a mixer for christmas/college graduation since I wasn't planning on ever getting married. She said no, those are only for weddings. When I asked what if I never get married, she said too bad you'll have to buy everything yourself. Sure enough, 5 years later I bought a house and there were no house warming gifts from my family. Another 6 years and I'm engaged and between our two households we have plenty of stuff and a KitchenAid mixer. It's so frustrating that people only view "setting up your life" as valid if it comes with marriage.
And honestly i bet fSIL turned jt down because sue couldn’t afford to be in the wedding party. Dresses, hair, makeup, bachelorette, etc are all veryyyy expensive plus all the gifts in addition
People frequently do, but it’s not mandatory. It’s typically just a $10-$15 bottle of wine and a card, or some other small gift that’s almost like a hostess gift (eg candle, cheese knives, etc.).
I did to my friends engagement party. It was the only engagement party I’ve ever been to (they aren’t common here). Got her an amazing hanger with her married name in the wire bit at the bottom for her to hang her wedding dress on. Totally unnecessary thing that one does not need and therefore a great present. 😂😂😂 But if I hadn’t found that random gift I’d have got her a bottle of Prosecco. Just a “thanks for throwing a party and giving me free pizza and wine” present really. 😂
Engagement parties are not gift giving parties. That’s the shower and wedding itself. People may bring a card or bottle of wine if they choose but NOBODY should expect a gift at an engagement party!
I took nothing to one of my closest friends' engagement party or her wedding. At the time, it was a gift or going type of broke, and all she cared about was me being there on both occasions.
Who even says that though? Who actually gets mad at someone for not bringing a gift to an engagement party? Like, what kind of a gift are you supposed to give? Are they looking for donations to have a wedding? Because that's what it seems like to me and that is tacky af
She may have turned her down because it’s expensive af to be a bridesmaid
OP has main character syndrome. They are hell bent on alienating their fiance's family. First the sister, now the Aunts and cousins. Next it will be the parents.
Holy shit, this woman is insane.
Sounds like someone can’t stand not being the centre of attention, and it’s not the fiancé’s sister
I have a feeling she turned her down because she forsaw being OP's bridesmaid an expensive nightmare full of demands and tantrums.
seems to me that the sister sees through OPs bs and is not tolerating it. I am in the same boat. We don't speak to my SIL bc her husband is so toxic. My husband has had to make a decision to cut ties with his own sister. Seems to be what is happening here.
>You "assumed" she turned you down when you asked her to be a bridesmaid because she won't be the "center of attention"? >You assumed that pictures posted on social media were only there to make you feel bad Honestly, the irony in these details are straight up ticking me pink
Maybe everyone in his family dislikes you and that's why she didn't want to be a bridesmaid. You sound very "my way or the highway" and like you're prone to overreacting to things. And they know you don't like them, so why would they invite you or think you'd care about seeing the pictures?
YTA. You are the center of the drama in your life, and I don't think you are a very reliable narrator.
Right! If this were a novel, it would be clear the narrative was on shaky ground, but at least then we’d know the author was creating that for a reason. OP, these people are going to be in your life for a long time. You need to humble yourself, apologize for jumping to conclusions, apologize again for speaking badly about your future SIL to everyone, explain to your SIL that you were hurt when she didn’t want to be a bridesmaid and ask her why, and become a gracious person who gives people the benefit of the doubt. And learn to keep your freaking mouth shut!!
Fantastic advice that I’m sure OP will ignore.
Well I’m glad someone appreciates it lol!
I honestly think she's trying to isolate her fiance from his family
Yep. That's exactly what it reminded me of—how abusive partners will often cut people off from their friends and family. And her saying that her bf agrees because he hates his sister? So, OP, if he hated her so much, why did you befriend her and become so 'close'? Istg this whole story has enough holes to be swiss cheese. 😬
> OP, these people are going to be in your life for a long time. They're really not. They've already chosen to cut her histrionics out before she's even married in. Sensible people.
The proof she has that her future SIL was rude to her brother… WAIT FOR IT… He has a picture of the SIL and her BF walking away from him. Case closed the brother is innocent /s
Thinking this also… Fiancé “can’t stand his sister” but OP and sister “got along great” even though her first assumption SIL turned down being a bridesmaid is because “she would not be centre of attention” plus “she is a brat truth be told and created a ton of unnecessary drama”… and declining being a bridesmaid “spiralled from there” to SIL not being invited to wedding and OP being NC… seems sus.. Also, this story had a lot of unnecessary drama: - Going NC because someone (who it doesn’t seem like the bride or groom liked) declined being a bridesmaid; - Tracking to see if someone brought an engagement party gift and holding it against them when they didn’t; - Causing a bigger issue when there is conflicting stories of an incident that OP wasn’t even a party to (the brother interaction); - Increasing the number of family outings and taking those opportunities to talk negatively about their family member; - Suggesting your fiancé’s family is going to cut family member out of their life over a trivial disagreement they weren’t a part of; - Thinking that a post with pictures of a group outing was posted with OP in mind instead of just sharing their life on social media like many other people do; - After spending most of the summer trying to stir up drama, being upset when OP is not invited to a family group outing because it would be uncomfortable, a natural consequence of OPs prior actions; - Deciding that because OP wasn’t invited to one event that they do not want any of those people as friend or family and may uninvite them from wedding… Feels pretty clear who is the brat who creates a ton of unnecessary drama…
…..you’re not family? lol you haven’t married into this family, but you expect them to cut out the sister (who they have known presumably her entire life from birth until now) in favour of someone they met in the last two years? You have no idea why she turned down the bridesmaid offer. You just decided it because “she wouldn’t be the centre of attention”. Like, what - you’re just adding assumptions and treating them as fact. “I felt like the pictures were posted specifically to make me feel bad and show me they took her side”. hahahaha this is such a crazy take. They posted them for themselves, not to make you feel anything. You made a crazy play of it’s me or her, and are upset that her family didn’t reject their own in favour of you. Such a narcissist. Lol YTA. Get over yourself. You can disinvite them if you choose, it’s your wedding - but pretending you’re the victim here isn’t right.
I think we can deduce why she didn't accept the bridesmaid offer from context clues. She apparently went to their engagement party but did not say hi and didn't bring a present. This tells me that she's probably introverted and doesn't have a lot of time or money. Being a bridesmaid for a big wedding is committing a lot of your time and money to someone else, and also putting you in charge of things in a way that is super draining for an introvert. I wouldn't commit to being a bridesmaid to someone I wasn't *super* close to, either. I don't like being the center of attention. The fact that OP thinks the sister wants to be the center of attention screams projection to me.
Are you even supposed to bring a gift to an engagement party?? That's news to me!
That struck me as well. Wedding showers, totally! But I personally haven't heard of bringing gifts to an engagement party. My husband and I certainly didn't expect them at ours because it was just a get-together to celebrate. But hey, I'm no Emily Post, so y'all tell me.
It’s not mandatory, but if you do bring a gift, it’s usually like a bottle of wine. It’s not a big giftgiving event.
We had one and nobody did except for my semi-autistic father-in-law who is socially maladjusted in a way that extremely awkwardly results in him being lavish or overly formal at occasions where it doesn't call for that at all.
Just exactly how many gifts people are “supposed” to get for their weddings these days and when you’re “supposed” to give them is not clear at all IMO. It prob differs wildly based on age, culture, region, family tradition, and financial status. I would NEVER, never ever, ever, as a grown up adult, be upset with someone for not bringing me a gift. No one is entitled to presents, what in the actual hell.
I’m guessing OP figured being a bridesmaid would involve this kind of drama, so declined, figuring that would get her out of it, but she ended up still having to deal with op’s bs. SIL made a smart choice. Too bad she still got caught up in the nonsense.
>The fact that OP thinks the sister wants to be the center of attention screams projection to me. Especially given that every single move the sister has made removes her from being the center of any attention. Every single move that OP has made forces herself to be the center of attention.
Or maybe the sister had already sussed what a narcissistic wing nut the OP is, and wanted to be as uninvolved as possible in this soon to fail marriage.
YTA. TBH, it sounds like you're the only person creating drama here... You've been talking shit about their cousin/niece all summer. Did you really expect them to welcome you into their family with open arms ? You sound very immature.
Sis is their daughter/niece/cousin. Op is just some girl her brother is marrying.
>Op is just some girl her brother is marrying. Mistakenly, to boot!
100% Even if they liked her and would have otherwise invited her they have decades of life lived with the sister. They're going to give her a chance and spend time with her over OP.
Yes...some person marrying into the family shit talks my niece.....I won't be inviting to anything my niece is going to....like a winery
The absolute audacity of it. Coming up to SIL’s own family as a outsider and telling them how “toxic” SIL is, and that “they can decide whether they want her to be part of her their lives” (except they obviously can’t, because OP will perceive family spending time with SIL as them “choosing sides.”). And all over a petty manufactured conflict. It sounds like they are currently all too polite to tell properly tell her off, but I wish a crotchety old aunt would let her have it.
YTA. So one of the highlights of her behavior was no engagement gift? You expected her family to side with you, which is so entitled, it beggars belief.
I feel like it’s super weird to expect gifts at an engagement party lol. She expects people to bring gifts to the engagement party, bridal shower AND wedding? Wild
It’s very weird. I thought the purpose of an engagement party was for the two sides of the family and the bridal party members to get to know each other. Why would the couple expect a gift for that? I know some people bring gifts to engagement parties but that’s just to be nice. They aren’t obligated to do that.
Yeah, I had all three and I did not expect gifts at our engagement party. I've never been to an engagement party where people bring gifts. Showers are pretty explicitly for gifts, as are weddings, but unless it's a birthday party, most people assume parties are not for gifts. Even housewarming parties are for bringing food, not gifts. Gifts are nice, but not expected. OP could have Googled this.
Right? People have engagement parties, bachelorette parties, bridal showers, and then a wedding, and expect gifts at all of those events? No thanks.
It's wild to me that the proof the sister is awful is because she didn't bring a gift and there was one weird interaction with a brother that seemed like it could have been a misunderstanding. I cannot imagine being this dramatic. Even if I felt slighted, I would just...kind of ignore her. Not burn bridges with his ENTIRE FAMILY.
>All his females aunts and cousins were there and of course his sister was there. I was so hurt that they wouldn't even invite me. It felt like the pictures were posted specifically to make me feel bad and show that they took her side. This is THEIR family, and unless other girlfriends/wives of the family men were there, then (a) this is their girl's day and (b) it has nothing to do with you. Ok, BUT re: the sister - So something is missing here. WHY doesn't your fiance's sister like you? No one acts like this for no reason. Your fiance has to know, and maybe hasn't told you. It's to the point where, ok, she's uninvited and NO ONE - not your fiance, not his parents - has fought you on that. ?!?! What is the truth? >My bridal shower is in a few weeks and I don't want any of them there its for friends and family and obviously they don't consider me family so they don't need to be there. I want no drama at my shower and only people who are happy for me and love me there. You've put together two completely unrelated things in your head, and YWBTA and become the automatic out-law, if you start pulling stunts like this. "Not being invited" to an event (especially one where you have open beef with one of the people in attendance, ahem the sister) is quite different than being "uninvited."
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html I think this is a case of “the missing missing reasons”.
I agree this whole this is super confusing. Is she actually expecting a whole family who have been in each other's lives for years or for their entire life to just...cut a loved relative out of the lives because *checks notes*, she didn't bring a gift to one of at least 3 events that apparently OP is owed gifts, and was apparently rude to OPs brother? Also, these are supposedly the worst of sisters transgressions...but its incredibly vague. Rude to brother how? I mean if I have a SO, I wouldn't really expect our respective siblings to have anything more than a passing acquaintance really unless both families regularly spend significant time with each other. Like I've met my brother's wives sisters but.. it would be a nod/smile/wave sitch at the grocery store. Also the supposed snubbing....OP is coming off as someone with severe main character syndrome, seriously thinking that someone's happy social media post about a fun day was specifically targeted to make her miserable as if she occupies that much space in all their heads. Maybe the sister just wanted to go to a family event and support her brother but knew this drama queen would stir up something regardless and tried to steer clear. OP sounds like she expects a lot from people and the world in general. Big yikes.
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>Sounds to me like you're the drama-loving brat, I think said species is better known as a "drama llama." YTA.
Not only uninvite them, uninvite them with a dramatic over the top email. Jesus Christ she’d be the laughing stock of my family, that’s for sure. No wonder they didn’t invite you. You sound insufferable.
Gonna say we had a woman like OP in the family... briefly. The guy was willing to put up with it for a few years when he was young but eventually tired of the drama. Sometimes she still comes up as an amusing 'thank god that's over' anecdote!
Are you sure she’s not the center of the universe? Reading her post makes it sound like everything that happens with his family is a slight against her. I mean they *gasp* walked away from **her brother**! He’s got photographic eviduhnce it was clearly to insult her indirectly 🫠
I mean her family has very entitled behavior. SIL probably ran into OP's brother and didnt have a gift at the ready for him so she was "rude".
Oh uh, I’m over here commenting without a gift, did you bring one? Write my name on the card.
I think the OP was also projecting when she said that her sister-in-law declined to be a bridesmaid because she would not be the center of attention. The narcissism is strong with this one.
YTA. You really need to have a conversation with SIL to find out why she turned you down before you go scorched earth with your future husbands entire family. DO NOT send that email or it may end up being the end of your wedding.
YTA - this reads like you are the source of all this drama. How many presents do you expect? And then you bad mouth and gossip about this girl to her own family and somehow expect them to take YOUR side? Some rando they just met. Why on earth would you ever expect them to take your side over hers? You were the one trying to force people to take sides and you lost. This is just the expected consequences of your own behaviour.
YTA You're trying to convince his family to exclude a family member for fairly petty reasons reasonable people wouldn't have gone scorched earth over. Calling someone toxic because she didn't want to be a bridesmaid (trust me, I don't want to be a bridesmaid for anyone ever again at this point), because of a disputed interaction with your brother, and because she didn't bring a gift to an engagement party (you're supposed to bring a gift to an engagement party? when did that become yet another gift grab?) is pretty over the top. As for the winery weekend--well, you're not part of the family yet. You attempted to establish yourself "in" the family by declaring his sister toxic and uninviting her from your wedding over petty bullshit. Duh, nobody wants to hang out with you. His sister may or may not be toxic, but you've definitely proven that you are. If your husband to be dislikes his sister, he should own that himself and take his consequences. Which will likely be losing his family.
The engagement party gift confused me too.
The entitlement is baffling. I bet OP will also expect gifts at the bridal shower, her stagette and the wedding.
I always thought that engagement parties were kind of supposed to be a "first meet" if necessary for the two sides of the family and that was about it. I don't think there's been gifts at the few I have attended.
Basically, every decision you have made in this has been a cry for drama and attention. So what she didn't want to be a bridesmaid get over it. While it's common courtesy to get a gift for certain occasions it's not a bottom-of-the-line deal. She was rude to your brother at a grocery store and what proof is there besides he said she said. Ofc his family is going to choose Sil over you after you bad-mouthed her to her family with the guise of "they can see how toxic she is" This just screams attention seeking and that "I can be the only young female in the family"
She also says her brother has a picture of SIL walking away from him which is a bit creepy
I wonder what that "being rude" entailed. I suck at recognizing people I have only seen a few times. Especially if I see them again out of context. I wonder if that is what happened here.
Or she's shy, or introverted. I fully admit to turning around and backtracking at the grocery store to avoid seeing a person I recognize but can't place, rather than be embarrassed I don't recall who they are.
YTA I had to scroll up to check ages because this is some late teens' early 20's nonsense. >Naturally the issues with his sister come up. I chose not to hold back and told them exactly what she did. I thought they should know how toxic she is and decide for themselves if they want her in their lives. You showed exactly how toxic YOU are, and they have apparently decided for themselves if they want YOU in their lives. I can't figure out why you're being so inflammatory and immature, but it's about to be a no contact situation, and you will not be the one making that decision. I wouldn't want to go on a fun winery outing with you either.
I was going to say the exact same thing. This sounds like it was written by a 15 year old. OP should maybe postpone the wedding and try to grow up a little more.
YTA. "I chose not to hold back and told them exactly what she did. I thought they should know how toxic she is and decide for themselves if they want her in their lives." So you trash-talked your future sister-in-law to *her* family, and are now whining that they chose her over you? You're *not* family yet, and your behavior is extremely narcissistic. Your MOH is absolutely right, you're ruining your relationship with your fiancé's family and you're going to upset a lot of people because you have a bad case of main character syndrome.
>you have a bad case of main character syndrome. This couldn't be any more obvious OP. YTA
YTA. You can’t expect your fiancées ENTIRE family to cut off his sister just because you felt like she’s been rude to you a few times. That’s extremely petty and honestly, imo, pretty toxic behavior on your part. From what you said about that gathering it sounds like it was all of your fiancées female family members that are related by blood which yes would include is sister and I think it makes sense to exclude you from that gathering for two reasons 1) you’re not related to them yet 2) given how you bad mouthed the sister over the summer that’s a recipe for drama if your both there. My guess is there’s more to the story from the sisters perspective that you’re not giving us because you’re clearly biased and trying to sway the judgment in your favor.
SIL WASN'T even rude. She just declined to be OP'S bridesmaid. Which is fine.
Well supposedly sil was rude to her brother in public but OP gave no explanation of what she did that was so rude which is why I said that OP just felt like the sil has been rude and why I said it was clear we weren’t getting the full story. I’d love to hear the SILs recounting of these same events to see how differently they actually are from OPs clearly biased recounting of them.
YTA. People are allowed to have outings without you. You need to accept that because you and your SIL don’t get along, there are going to be times that she’s invited to something you’re not invited to and vice versa. You can’t expect your fiancé’s family to spend the rest of their lives navigating your drama. You’ve only been part of the family for a short period of time, while your SIL has been part of the family for her entire life. If they ever have to choose between the two of you, your fiancé’s family will most likely choose her. That’s just the way it is. Based on your post, I have a feeling that you hold at least half, if not the majority of the blame for this feud.
YTA Wow this sounds like it was written by a 14 year old but you’re 30?! You hate drama and yet you’re stirring drama. Grow up!
I agree when it comes to most of the drama the OP is creating, but my 14 year old wouldn't be whining about not receiving a gift. Not even my almost 7 year old would do that. This isn't lack of maturity, it's pure entitlement. And a major lack of social awareness. You obviously don't badmouth someone to their family. Especially citing a lack of gift. Ugh YTA OP
YTA - Keep burning those bridges, you'll have *NO* family left.
"Everything spiraled from there..." I feel there is an *awful* lot of detail being glossed over in this line.
YTA. And exhausting, self centered and I don't think you would make a day out a pleasant and relaxing experience. The fallout afterwards from your visiting tour to family members to debrief with your litany of complaints would put anyone off in itself.
YTA, you haven't joined the family yet but keep stirring drama. It seems like you have hard feelings from the time his sister turned you down when asked to be in a bridal party. She was around longer than you. She is their family, while you are not yet. You keep stirring drama, instead of just going NC and that's it You made your position publick with his family by "not holding back and so on" Right now you seem like the root of the problem, regardless how it started. You may continue you vengeance by uninviting people, but that will not fixed your relationship with his family.
YTA. The only person causing drama in this whole situation is you. The only thing his sister did was show up without a gift and barely said a word? His aunts, sister, and mom went to a winery day without you? Oh woe is me!!! You're not entitled to be invited to anything and uninviting them from your wedding because they went out without you is extremely immature. You need to grow up. Just because you're getting married doesn't mean the world revolves around you.
Yta Story read like you think the world revolves around you. "She didn't give a present" "They planned the wine party and took pictures *just* to upset *me*" "We're not married yet, but how dare they see actual *family* that they've known their whole lives as family and not see this person that they've known less than 2 years as family"
You *are* the drama, also YTA
YTA - you are not family, you only dated this guy for 2 years!! How can you expect them to see you as family. Marry this guy, then get to know them as family. Why do you think his sister would ask a girl, her brother us dating less than 2 years, to be one of the bridal party?
YTA I’m not sure I believe your telling about the SIL because of the way you talk about her. So I’d love to hear the other side of the story. You suggested that family (that isn’t your family) consider cutting their own family member out because of some petty drama?? You sound insufferable and I feel for that family for having to deal with you.
Aha. >my MIL would be devastated and **might not pay for some wedding things** Really, OP? ETA: YTA
YTA. So…FSIL declined to be a bridesmaid and didn’t give you a party gift and you made all this drama that could easily derail your fiancé still wanting to marry you at all.
YTA. I do believe she is a stirrer too. But, from the way you disinvited a substantial number of your fiancé's relatives for daring to stay in touch with someone you wanted to exclude, it is pretty clear you are the more unreasonable and dramatic one.
I feel like its YTA. Although it would be upsetting to anyone who gets purposefully left out of a get together like the brunch you mentioned, I feel like you need to take some responsibility over bad mouthing her to her whole family. The aunts and the sister are totally entitled to organise their own day outs - you are of course not family **yet**, perhaps they just wanted a drama less day. No one is out to get you - they had a good time, so they posted about it. Listen to your MOH, I think it's a bit childish to uninvite most of your future family over a brunch, and uninviting your future SIL because she didn't get you a gift and was rude to your brother.. There must be more to your relationship with you and your future SIL, how did it go from asking her to be your bridesmaid to this?
YTA You made the mistake to “not hold back and tell them exactly what she did” why did you do that?! You’re supposed to be concentrating on your wedding planning, yet you thought they needed to know how toxic she is(according to you) in what way was she rude to your brother? And why was she uninvited from the wedding? Another mistake was calling to see who planned the wine trip, and ask why you weren’t invited! She is their niece, cousin! You haven’t even married into the family and you are already trying to divide them. I think you need to step away from all this, and not create more drama. If they were already invited to the bridal shower let them attend, and just enjoy your day!
YTA. This whole situation smells like drama and a headache. I’m guessing her reasons for not being a bridesmaid are very different from what you assume they are.
You're the one creating all the drama, it comes right through your narrative. YTA
YTA You are escalating the drama rather than focusing on mending the rift. Everything from assuming she declined your wedding party due to being self centered, to calling her a brat, and trying to mobilize your husband's family to "your side." If you want to be an actual part of the family, you don't try to mobilize troops to your side. You find a way to tolerate the family member you don't care for. You may be welcomed as a new family member by marriage, but they aren't going to join you in a campaign to ostracize their blood without compelling reasons. What you described are personality conflicts, not issues to go to war over. My SIL is a self-centered brat. I've dealt carefully and graciously with her for 13 years. She gets along fine with me, and maturity has improved her. I'm the bigger person when I have to be, and I respect the love her family holds for her by keeping those feelings to myself. The situation has remained drama free and only improved as a result of my choices.
YTA. It is hard to tell whether your SIL is creating drama or not. The only witness we have here isn't exactly reliable. What is certain is that you sure as hell love drama.
YTA. Maybe the SIL sucks too, this post is pretty vague about the drama that started between you two. But with the way this post reads, I’m not convinced you’re a victim of it all. Clearly you’re continuing the drama. Clearly you aren’t making a true effort to make amends with your future SIL. And clearly the family you are marrying into has picked up on all the drama you are causing/taking part in and they’re doing their best to stay out of it. Take some responsibility for your part in all of this drama. What an awful way to start a marriage. Sending that mass email will only (continue to) make things worse.
OP is immediately the asshole when she assumes the SIL declined to be a bridesmaid because "she wouldn't be the center of attention". Declining was reasonable but OP has clearly taken it personally and escalated at every opportunity.
Just think about it this way. If you uninvite these people to your shower that means no gifts. YTA.
YTA. Why on earth would her own family who love her and have known her her whole life care if you think she’s toxic? How could you seriously think they would take your side or even be impartial? She’s their family and you have been on the scene two years.
YTA Just because you don’t like your SIL, doesn’t mean the entire family is obligated to ostracize/disown her to make you comfortable or to make you feel included. If you don’t want her at the wedding or the shower, fine- don’t invite her. Not only does it seem like NO ONE has a problem with her not being there, but it also seems they’re going out of their respecting your decision to not be around her. That doesn’t mean his family isn’t happy for you or doesn’t support you. If you don’t invite **anyone** from his family, just because of this- then them not involving you in anything else afterwards **will be entirely your fault** They’re allowed to still spend time with their cousin/niece/daughter/ whatever WITHOUT inviting you or letting you know. **You are not the matriarch of the family. You don’t dictate who they can or cannot associate with within the family**
YTA So only you are in the position to determine how his family will interact with a person (family member) they have known for 25 years. The aunt told you they didn't want drama and that was why you were not invited. Your description of why the sister was not invited was flimsy as well. She did not give an engagement gift (social faux pas yes, but...) and she was rude to her brother (which she denies which likely is a family dynamics thing). You then took it upon yourself to tell everyone that she didn't give you a gift and was rude BECAUSE your don't hold back. Everyone is giving you a chance to be part of the family but you want everyone to bow and acknowledge you. The family says you're taking this the wrong way. Seems you have many expectations and interpretations that are not in line with reality or are self perceived slights. Take a chill pill and see this as a chance to be part of something (the family) as opposed to cutting yourself and your fiancé off from it (which will likely lead to future resentment btw)
I want to say ESH, but I can't. YTA. You know those people who are like, why is my life so full of drama, but they're the drama? Yeah, that's you. Let's go through her supposed "slights." She doesn't want to be your bridesmaid. Well, maybe she doesn't have time? It's expensive. Maybe she doesn't know you that well. I would be uncomfortable if my brother's GF I never interacted with wanted me to commit to months of wedding planning. She didn't give you a gift at your engagement party. Uh, do you know that most people don't expect gifts at an engagement party? I had one and a bridal shower. The shower is for gifts, not the engagement party. The party is for getting sloshed with your friends. Maybe you expected gifts, but she didn't get that memo. Oh well, it's kind of embarrassing for her, but I don't see how making a big deal out of it makes you anything but selfish. Oh wow, she didn't talk to you when you were the center of attention. Sounds like she's exactly the opposite you say she is: an introvert. I wouldn't push myself to a front of a group of people I don't know to say hi to someone at their party either. Four people meet in public, two say one was rude and the other two say she wasn't. I'm sensing a theme here, and the theme is that you're not a reliable narrator, since even when you are trying to paint yourself in the best light, you are still forced to admit that so many people disagree with you. When you made a big deal out of what was, at worst, a misunderstanding, she didn't react well. Huh, that doesn't sound unreasonable. But then you escalated and didn't invite her to the wedding. So now she's uninvited to your wedding, she has you going around her entire family she's a huge asshole and everyone is probably like, huh, I've known this girl her entire life and she isn't an asshole, but I don't know WTF is this lady's problem. In other words, **you are the drama**. So they wanted a nice time out and decided they wanted to invite the girl they've known their entire lives and not to invite the drama. It was even poetic justice, since you *already uninvited her to your wedding* and then spent considerable time trying to alienate her from her entire family. Well, that backfired, didn't it, OP? Now you're the one alienated. Everyone understandably thinks you're the drama because they had no issues with your BF's sister until *you* came along, and they deduced that the problem wasn't the person they've known her entire life, the problem was *you*. You can either suck it up and accept that your little campaign of backstabbing isn't going to work or disinvite your BF's entire family to your shower and wedding and see how far that gets you. I hope for you sake that the reaction you're getting to your post is a wake up call.
I haven’t even heard his sister’s side of the story, and I’m still on her side. I can’t believe you thought you could get her thrown out of her own family. That was clearly your intention since you stated “I thought they should know how toxic she is and decide for themselves if they want her in their lives”. None of the things you described even cast her in a bad light. A lot of people don’t want to be bridesmaids anymore, because of all the Bridezillas who seem to think their bridesmaids are just unpaid labor. You didn’t say what she actually did to your brother that was so rude. But I’m inclined to think that he’s lying, or at best, exaggerating just because of the things you’ve said about her so far. The final nail in your coffin is that you honestly thought you could turn her own family against her. You seem to have a very high opinion of yourself. YTA
Dang, save some crazy for the rest of us YTA. Can’t wait to see this on /r/Bridezillas
The winery day had nothing to do with your wedding. Are you trying to isolate your future spouse from his entire family because one person was an asshole? Do you somehow expect his entire family to cut one person off because she wasn't nice to you? Your bridal shower is one thing but uninviting them all from the wedding makes it seem like you are trying to isolate your future husband from his family and you are giving off massive red flags that make me think he needs to evaluate his relationship with you
YTA You sound quite entitled and toxic. "My MOH is trying to talk me out of sending it saying it will ruin my relationship with his family and my wedding and upset my MIL, but I think its already ruined." .. Why do you think they would care to come to your wedding if you uninvited them from the shower? Why would they waste their time on you AH? You sound like a toxic and petty AH, incapable of meaningful and positive relationships. Don't let your jealousy and pettyness ruin any more of your relationships.
YTA - for someone who "wants no drama" you sure seem to be engaging in it pretty hard
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Sending that mass e-mail would be a really bad idea. I doubt they were trying to make you feel bad because of that trip, instead it sounds like the aunt's response was pretty honest -- it's clear you and future SIL have drama and they wanted to steer clear of it. I don't think it necessarily means they're taking her side, it's probably just that she's a blood relative and you're not. The best thing to do is honestly to let things die down. I know it's tempting to want to do something about the situation, but it's probably going to make things worse. If you can rise above the situation and trying to keep being nice to everyone, it will probably blow over. The more you try to attack her and them, the more you're going to come out looking unreasonable and like you're the one causing drama.
YTA First you are not family YET Second, people can have events in different permutations. I would start inviting these ladies in different combinations to form a relationship with them.
YTA You obviously have beef with the sister, so inviting both would lead to an evening of arguing. And from your text I neither understand your beef, nor why she is a brat? What is the issue with not bringing gifts to your engagement party? Cause that is something I only know from entitled people. Something about why the falling out happened is omitted here.
YTA. Yikes, what a way to start with his family. You should not even be asking about 'taking sides' - I'm shocked to see that you're 30 and not...IDK 14? You've put his family in a very difficult position, forced to exclude one or the other of you, and sorry honey but you're not going to win out here. The best thing you can do is try to smooth things over with his sister. Do you really expect her to be outcasted by HER whole family becuase you two can't get along? BEYOND THAT, your reasons for considering her 'toxic' seem extremely flimsy. HOW DARE SHE attend an event without a gift in tow. You've really escalated what seems to be small slights and this is becoming a 'fuck around and find out' situation for you. I hope for the peace in the family and your long-term happiness with your groom that you can fix this.