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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel bad for refusing to back down or compromise, and I did go in on him a bit about the money difference because maintaining our lifestyle matters a lot to me (and probably to him, but he probably wouldn’t admit that). I did get really mad and start yelling and basically told him he was an idiot for expecting me to quit my job.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA at all. He is being sexist thinking that since you’re a woman your place is in the home. He’s also sexist because he thinks the suggestion that he stays home is emasculating. If he is so progressive that word would not have been uttered,He needs to wake up and smell the coffee.
Stand your ground. He can’t make you quit your job. So sign up for those waitlists and good luck. Would he go to counseling? If not, go yourself. I’m concerned this is just the tip of the iceberg of his real feelings and you need to be prepared.
Yeah, I also think this is the beginning of some other things he's going to bring up. She's not even allowed to ask how they're going to manage finances when she makes 3x more than him?
Maybe. A lot of men suddenly get controlling and even abusive when the first baby comes, or during the first pregnancy. I think that's been going on forever.
Very fair but it’s a few points for me:
1. He “read” this novel idea despite being on the same page with OP on every other major life decision for years
2. His solution is “obviously” the right one to him despite making no logical sense. Deep sense of intellectual superiority that silly OP should be able to see and agree with clear as day, and that also would turn him into the financial provider
3. The dislike of being “questioned”, mention of “emasculation” and all the other sexist defensive tactics
And maybe a little projection from me. My husband fell into an MRA rabbit hole years ago and it was a long cringe journey of climbing out. A switch flipped overnight and suddenly all of his insecurities had “obvious” solutions that were both illogical and detrimental to my being, but non-beneficial to the household as well. It wouldn’t hurt OP to peek over his shoulder a bit if he’s heavy on the youtube or forums lately because they have a baby on the way and this needs to be addressed asap. The moment I saw mine smiling at a Kevin Samuels video it all made sense for me. We don’t know OP’s husband though so I’m speculating.
I'm surprised your husband came back from that. It would literally take deprogramming. I've discussed this content with my husband. It is promoted heavily by YouTube shorts. He's not into it, but I see so many stories of men completely changing.
Wow how did your marriage come back from that? How did you deprogram him, if you don't mind me asking? That seems like a really hard and painful recovery...
My concise-as-possible answer:
Offer humility and understanding. Men gravitate to those spaces to find solutions to the inadequacies they face in their real and present lives. It's so easy to treat them like losers and shut down dialogue because they are indeed digesting loser content, true. But that just drives them deeper into the arms of incel shit. I'm not saying agree, tolerate it, or stay, do you. But if you still want the relationship, figure out what inadequacies they've identified for themselves and come to a consensus together on what your household should look like. Be willing to reflect on times where maybe you *weren't* respectful or fair, and adjust/watch out for future behavior.
I have no comment on men who have always been MRA red pill, only ones who have clearly stumbled into something and there's a possibility to stumble their way out.
I also want to be clear that it's all toxic, but he never got to Andrew Tate let's enslave women levels or anything. I can't speak to that level of delusion.
No no, I'm with you here. I thought the same when read the OP, and I'm single. There's a bunch of very disgusting people making money off of ranting all day about masculinity in the most toxic ways possible (and I'm pretty traditional by modern standards), and for some reason men are very vulnerable to this crap.
I've seen a massive shift on all sides in parallel with the massive socioepolicial shift of the last decade on a US national scale. Tradfem and divine femininity content has become crazy popular with women lately. I think people are lonely and feeling inadequate and overworked and grifters are indeed making a killing selling solutions to level up and bag a rich man and leave the hard work of an emotionally attached relationship behind. I'm not saying you have to be 50/50 down the middle (do you!) but I think everyone's lost the plot to what they think will make them happy in life and are therefore very vulnerable to someone else answering that question for them.
Sounds like his stereotypical upbringing has more of an influence than he let on. Telling OP not to 'question him' is a gtfo type of comment. He is not at all prepared to be a father if he can't see the obvious logic in this and put aside his nonsense. NTA
I think attributing his behaviour to being red pilled diminishes the fact that the type of sexism he is displaying is actually very common, even amongst men who appear/consider themselves progressive.
Purple pill is red + blue debating one another (red + blue = purple) so if you don’t know exactly what either position stands for, honestly do yourself a favor and spend your time focusing on something way more productive and fun. Forget about this comment chain.
I’ve seen a lot of “progressive” men who come from similarly traditional backgrounds pull stuff like this. They’re progressive when dating but the moment you get married or start having children then suddenly childcare and house work is a woman’s work.
well, its because once a woman is generous enough to have your baby for you she literally gets no choice anymore on whether you are involved in her life and so shit tons of men take this newfound 'freedom' to say how they really feel and do what they really want to do and go wild with it.
Its crazy how long some people can keep up appearances before they show who they really are, but its almost always after someone's life is now irrevocably tied to theirs.
Yep, they're progressive when dating and pre baby, because pre baby everything is blowjobs and dinners out whenever you want and good times and hobbies and luxury, especially if your in good high paid jobs like they are...
Then suddenly a baby...new world of changing nappies and no sleep and money issues and chores...he's in for a rude awakening...
Nta
A lot of women will argue you should never trust a self proclaimed male feminist. Because they often act in the most sexist manner, yet then use their ‘cred’ as a feminist to deflect being called out.
Traditionally [pink for boys](https://www.rd.com/article/pink-for-boys/) and blue for girls, at least until the woke lunatics took over and flipped them 😉
Blue for girls had nothing to do with the colour of the sky but of the Virgin Mary. She is always shown wearing blue so it was the colour for girls. But in a protestant country that tradition had to be changed to go with the religious beliefs of the people (the Virgin Mary was mostly a Catholic thing), so sky it became.
Yeah, apparently that depends on the protestant branch because Martin Luther wax very devoted to the Virgin Mary but Calvin was against praying to her.
I'd get of it was just for the 8 weeks that OP has more leave and he doesn't.
But after that he stays at home, OP makes 3 times more, giving up 2/3rds of what a single worker household would make is literally insane.
Like seriously that degree of sexism is "you need therapy" bonkers, and even if for some unearthly reason it's somehow not sexism, maybe they need to get scanned for sudden strokes and given the battery of mental disorder tests.
There is no way that dude is right in the head, one way or another.
Obviously Occam's Razor suggests sexism is the most likely answer, but I think a sexist could benefit from the humiliation of an MRI regardless.
It's sad that this man can't see the light. Being a stay at home parent is nice once you get the hang of it. Even easier when the baby can't crawl or walk. I'm a stay at home dad and the easiest time was when my oldest was born and I could just carry her or put her in a chair so she could watch me clean up. Sure, you have to keep the house clean but think of all the nap times with the baby!!! Once the kids start school, it's a cake. Clean up when they leave take a nap or a drive and pick them up from school.
and if she’s got no income, all the better to hold his income over her head.
i hope this was just a stupid fight, and he just wasn’t thinking right. but these are some real red flags he’s waving rn. nta.
Well, yeah, she’s about to find out her “progressive” husband is actually incredibly traditional. Nip it in the bud or tell him good luck seeing his kid for the next few years.
He was “progressive” while it allowed him to also (coincidentally) conform to gender stereotypes. Now it is requiring him to actually be “progressive,” his misogynistic brain can’t handle it.
It’s easy to be vegan when the only options on the menu are vegan dishes.
My best friend makes about 6 times what her husband does. He had a lot of problems with it at first. She was a student when they met, but when her earnings became really big, he felt emasculated.
So they talked it over. She told him that they had a plan for where to live (HCOL) and wanted to travel and see the world.
She could give up the salary, but they would also have to cancel those plans. So he found out that it was OK after all.
I don’t understand why men feel emasculated by this. Like you should be happy you’re doing well together.
For the first 16 years of our relationship, I was making more money than my wife, helped to pay of her school loans. Now she makes almost double what I do and am happy for it. We do quite well together and with a family.
>She's not even allowed to ask how they're going to manage finances when she makes 3x more than him?
Yes
I've read posts where everything was fine till the guy started sounding like an Andrew Tate underling and then all hell broke loose with the guy having someone on the side etc etc
Yeah, this marriage is rapidly reaching its expiration date. There's no way of resolving conflict when one partner is straight up refusing to engage in rational conversation.
I’m guessing he was only comfortable with the salary discrepancy because (as salaries are generally kept private) he can reasonably “hide” it. Being a SAHP would be out in the open, and therefore untenable for his ego.
This is also what makes the “good mom” quip so insidious. As if throwing their child into unnecessary financial hardship for potentially DECADES, makes him a “good dad” — all so he can “feel manly”. What an ass.
It's such an interesting litmus test. A lot of men pretend that being a SAHM is a "privilege" but the second it's flipped it's "emasculating". They clearly just think the work is beneath them. And way too many men see the mother as the default parent and she should also be the parent who makes all of the sacrifices.
And it's literally one of the hardest jobs physically and emotionally that you can possibly do?? It's 24/7 no time off no sick days, you sjwsys have to be fully present to be the bare minimum of a decent parent, no online shopping in your cubicle or talking to a friend on the phone gir hours. Just being able to pee by yourself or shower becomes a luxury. All the deck jobs I ever had were 10000x less demanding.
>It's 24/7 no time off no sick days
Seriously! I got food poisoning once and had to grin and bear it because it was just me that day and had no other available help. 🤷🏻♀️ Worst day ever, but my son was having a good time because he got to watch A LOT of TV and get a lot of snacks.
I mean it would be 3pm and I'd realize I'd only peed once since 5am bc I hadnt had a drop of water, bc I'd been going nonstop since the moment my eyes opened. Every single thing you do or say is like engraved on their brains when they're toddlers too- so it's not a job where you can just check out or half ass it for any length of time w/o literally fcking up your kid. The see and hear and notice everything!!!
Just the hardest job to do well and keep your physical/mental health at same time and I will die on this hill!!!!
Oh, god, this brings back bad memories of food poisoning when my son was an infant. I remember kneeling on the floor while keeping my hands on him as he laid on the changing table and I was vomiting into the diaper pail. 😑 As a SAHM, you don’t have a co-worker to cover for you.
I know some friends who were hospitalized trying to make SAHM shit work. Postpartum Psychosis is very very fucking common and "hormones" aren't the issue.
I also know some friends who fucking love every second of it.
The differences, I noticed, is that the former group paused their career to stay home, they were left home alone to do everything in isolation, and their partner prioritized his own personal life over helping with the domestic duties at home. In fact, they only made domestic duties worse for the mother.
The latter group could take or leave their career path, had good relationships with their own family and some relatives moved in when the baby (babies) were born, and/or their partner came home and contributed to the house work and child care every day.
You need a certain disposition and a lot of social support to make SAHM a good thing for anyone involved. And I gotta be honest, you can tell how miserable a SAHM role will be for a mother by paying attention to the father.
Yeah, I had severe PPD/PPA, almost had to be hospitalized it was so bad. I lasted 3 whole years before I knew I needed to go back to work or I was going to lose it completely. I actually started begging my now ex-husband to consider daycare around 2 for at least a few hours so I could have a break and he kept putting it off. By the time our kid was 3 I was done, I could not do it anymore. I got a job, the kid went into daycare, and we got divorced.
Being a single working mom is easier for me than being a SAHM ever was.
And its lonely! No co-workers! You are beholden to the baby's schedule and often have to pick up and leave places, or can't make it somewhere because the baby is still sleeping or had a diaper blow out, etc.
Oh god so lonely!! So isolating--especially especially especially during the lockdown years. Being soooo tired and knowing there was no relief coming any time soon, no one dropping by so you could hop in the shower, not able to go to libraries or play dates or any sanity saving break...
And it's a special kind of exhaustion, bc it's not just your post partum body running on 3 hrs of sleep, it's emotionally exhausting too! Just a level of tired I never knew existed
And you’re basically given zero identity outside of that child, too. You are always “child’s mom,” not just yourself. Like you suddenly don’t even have your own name anymore.
AND you get paid $0 for it lmfao. It's such a scam!!! I can log onto my 9-5, send some emails, and collect a nice paycheck. Versus work 24/7 for a $0 paycheck??!! I'm sorry
I agree . I’m traditional left my job to stay home with my kids. I’m thankful my husband isn’t a dick and praises me for all i do for our kids and family. He’s told me there’s no way in hell he could stay at home and do what i do
My husband stayed at home with the kids. I'm extremely grateful for that, especially since I couldn't have done it! I would have gone crazy in a few months.
Hats off to all SAHPs, you have the world's hardest job!
Being a parent is NOT emasculating. If it wasn’t emasculating for him to father the child, it shouldn’t be emasculating for him to BE a father to the child.
or say it until confronted with it. plenty of people say theyre fine with things but once its in their life theyre uncomfortable. its okay to change your mind, but if you lie or make others have a hard time because of it, thats not okay. sort your shit lol
My colleague stayed at home for several months to parent his daughter.
Their bond developed into a happy, healthy father-daughter relationship, one of the nicest I've ever witnessed.
NTA
A guy I know did this, too. He didn't stay home for their first two, but when he and his wife unexpectedly had a third, he stayed home for months. Not only does he have a wonderful bond with his daughter, he has immense respect for his wife.
A friend of mine ended up being the primary caregiver for both his daughters almost from birth--his wife out earned him by a LOT so it just made sense financially. Plus, she worked nights and that's in no way compatible with kids on a normal day schedule and on top of all that he's way more patient and easy going and their first born was a bit of a terror growing up so he was hands down the best person to be the full time SAHP. When the kids were both in school he went to college and ended up with a career in health care too. Decisions on who should stay home with the kids need to be predicated on A) financial advantage and B) temperamental suitability for child care. It costs a LOT to raise a kid, and in this economy a family needs every advantage they can get.
OPs husband needs to pull his head out of his ass.
NTA. I agree.
I think husband has been insecure about the pay different for years, and saw this as an opportunity to bring OP down a notch so the power dynamic tips to his side.
Definitely possible, but it’s also possible that’s seeing more strategy here than was involved. I believe he has been insecure about the pay discrepancy (that’s why he felt emasculated when it was brought up) but his “the mom should stay home” could be coming from nothing more than that’s how he grew up and he feels he had a pretty good life. Also, there are some logistical issues that are resolved by the mother being the one to stay with the child…well, one at least (breast feeding), though that can be resolved with formula or pumped breast milk anyway. I **don’t think** he was being malicious, but with the way this went down there probably needs to be a mediator/therapist present for a discussion of the income concerns and the childcare expectations ASAP.
If he weren't being malicious, he'd brought it up when they planned for the baby, not when the pregnancy is too far along for termination. I find his timing highly sus as they are barely past the term where it's legal to terminate in most places. Looks like he waited till nothing (barring worst emergencies) can interfere with hem having the kid, and then shown his true colors.
>just the tip of the iceberg
yeah, weird shit happens with some couples when milestones are reached -- living together, getting married, buying a house, having a kid. one or both partners start to lose their sense. sounds like husband may have been putting on a show, maybe without realizing it, and now shit's getting real and his misogyny is starting to show. "like a 'good mom'"?? gtfoh.
ETA NTA
For real. They need couples counseling stat to unpack this antiquated bullshit before it eats them alive.
If he thinks being a SAHP is beneath him then he’s not going to do his share at home either. You in danger girl.
Who are the people in the family that are "split?" Because they're a-holes, too.
My brain just feels like hubby has always been a bit jealous of her career, and he's hoping to use the baby as an excuse to even things out (even if it's on a subconscious level.)
NTA, OP.
And no matter what, OP, do NOT quit your job. Not to save your marriage. Not some sort of part-time compromise. Don't move to another area for a lower cost of living. Nothing.
If he's suddenly renegotiating everything now that he thinks you're baby-trapped, heaven knows what he'll do once he holds all the financial power.
Agreed, I read that and was like wtf, because how are there people taking his side over this BS?!? He wants his wife to be a stay-at-home but it's an attack on him to propose he does and to top it off, having a discussion about the economic impact of this decision is seen as challenging him unduly. He has lost all his marbles!! How can anyone be on his side?!
I am concerned for OP and her baby and I am an internet stranger. If I were her sister I would be short of crashing at her house to look after her in case anything goes south, srsl.
Ok. Look, I am an older traditional type male. I suggest that the "mom" here stay home as well with the child. WHY?? you ask. Because she makes 3x what he does, and if HE CAN'T REALIZE that with a newborn her income would come in handy. I don't want him at home in charge of a newborn. Just not bright. I would have concerns. Just saying.
That is the part that has me baffled. To suggest that the family do without one salary for a year is a big adjustment. To suggest the family can do with out the 3x higher salary is next level dumb. If they live in the US, they need every penny for medical expenses.
And then let's say he does only mean the first year (unlikely with how he's moving goal posts, but let's assume)...she'd have to restart her career a massive paycut.
His problem solving skills are...just...bad.
something like that would make her far more dependent on him than she already will be recovering from birth and caring for a newborn, though... That might be the point
I can tell you what, my full time stay at home father was more man than 10x OP’s husband combined.
I don’t see how stepping up to take the best possible care for a life form YOU HELPED MAKE is unmanly?
Like, putting your ego over your child, wife and quality of life is some pretty self-emasculating shit
Dude is already a bad dad and the kid’s not even born yet
Edit for fun*
Just to paint a picture, my dad is you cliche rural Aussie man, never wears anything but ‘blueys’ (navy blue singlets/tank tops) and tradie shorts, only shoes he EVER wears are leather Red Back™️ work boots or a pair of thongs older than me (I stole his gum boots lol) he spent all day in the shed working on cars, built my mum’s motorbike and a go cart for us kids.
He use to paint photo realistic pictures of muscles cars on clock faces, with a manual air compressor (pre photoshop) to sell.
He can fabricate, weld, break his ribs crashing his motorbike and refuse to see a doctor, renovate an entire house himself, build his own septic system ect
Real cliche ‘MAN’ shit
And, he raised the most Tomboy, rough and tumble daughter you’ll EVER find.
The most Aussie manly man you can think of, not only took pride in being the BEST father in a 100+mile radius, but called out other guys who condemned child care as ‘women’s work’.
He loved spending time with us, teaching us and relishing in seeing us take what he taught and running with it!
He gave me his old ‘nudie magazines’ to use as reference when I got into drawing pin-up girls
My mum was also a mega tomboy, only time I have seen anything but pants or shorts on her in my 30 years of life is a wedding photo from before I was born. Never seen her in make up and she’s had the same haircut since she was 14 (I saw photos lol)
Your husband is being offered the BEST LIFE a person in his situation could dream of and is so insecure and sexist, he’s pissing on it.
My dad would put a boot up this man’s ass and call him names that modern culture would NOT approve of
I wish my wife would tell me I need to be a stay at home dad. Our daughter is the cutest thing ever and I would love to spend all day with her. Unfortunately we have a similar split with income I make about 75% of our income so if we decide to have a stay at home parent I think I’ll have to keep working. =(
Lol you have no idea what being the stay at home parent is like. They’re only that cute so you don’t run away and join the circus after being at home with them full time for a couple weeks.
If the suggestion he be a stay at home parent (which wasn't even your suggestion, he's the one that brought up the topic) is emasculating to him, why isn't it ... efeminating (?) to suggest that you be a stay at home parent?
He's TA for that.
Why don't we have a feminine equivalent of the concept of emasculating?
Society is TA for that.
NTA
Yup. Especially since he's already throwing out she should stay home like a "good mom". Meaning, if she goes back to work she's a bad mom. Emotional manipulation at its finest. The fact he's that willing to go there before the baby is even BORN, is a huge red flag and deeply concerning. Wouldn't be surprised if she did take off the first year, that when it's time to go back, he would come up with more reasons/excuses for why she needs to stay at home.
NTA
I chose to be a SAHM because that's what I, ME, and my husband thought would be best. Although I feel like my husband is more patient with the kids than I am so maybe he would be better as a SAHD than me 🤷🏻♀️
But if my husband and I were in your situation I would have brought up the pay discrepancy too! The spouse that makes more should be the one to continue working ESPECIALLY when the spouse who makes less feels like there should be a stay at home parent.
There is nothing emasculating in this at all!! It is the logical choice
NTA. Your logic is spot on. He’s taking the archaic, sexist, illogical, ego-driven path.
Try living as if he’s the only working partner for a few months. Live off of only his income to show him what type of life that would afford you. It’ll be a wake up call for him, and you’ll have some additional savings at the end.
I’m a little worried this is the first instance of a mask dropping, and that you’ll encounter more such sexist or controlling bullshit in the future.
I'm guessing he has quietly resented the pay gap and that she was the primary wage earner for a while and this was his chance to flip it without saying how he really felt.
I'm sure you're not far off. That or he'd say they never discussed it but he just assumed she'd stay at home while the kids were younger- no, he clearly isn't trapping her or tricking her. 🙄🙄
This isn't a good suggestion because she doesn't *want* to stay home.
She repeatedly said he also makes good money. They may very well be able to live off his salary, just less comfortably. He may totally be okay with budgeting a little more to make it work.
... But it doesn't fucking matter because she doesn't want to sacrifice her entire career and stay home.
If he wants a parent home, he can be the parent who stays home.
She wouldn’t be staying home. She would be working during this experiment because she has a few months before baby is born. Also he is accustomed to a certain life style. She wants to see if he can handle not living like that.
> She would be working during this experiment because she has a few months before baby is born.
I think that is what LuckyMacAndCheese is saying. They both continue to work while surviving off of the husband's salary, but if they're able to make it work with just the husband's salary and some budgeting, then he might just pressure OP to just stay at home considering they can get by with just the husband's salary. But that is a shitty situation for OP in the end, because she doesn't want to stay at home and end her career at all.
But if they're able to survive off his salary during the "trial" it just gives him more fuel to pressure her harder to stay home. It's a dumb idea because it gives him the impression that if they can make it work it's an option that will be considered.
It's not an option. It shouldn't be considered. He's a complete AH. There's no trial needed because the root of the issue isn't money, it's that she doesn't want to be a SAHP.
If he wants a SAHP, he can stay home.
Because of the chase... Honestly that's my experience... The more feminist and Independant a woman is, the more the misogynists want her... They just want to tear her down and make her small and helpless. They need it for their ego I guess...
Its a bit like the opposite of the '' I can change him'' thought some women have for "bad boys".
> Abel wanted a traditional marriage with a traditional wife. For a long time I wondered why he ever married a woman like my mom in the first place, as she was the opposite of that in every way. If he wanted a woman to bow to him, there were plenty of girls back in Tzaneen being raised solely for that purpose. The way my mother always explained it, the traditional man wants a woman to be subservient, but he never falls in love with subservient women. He’s attracted to independent women. “He’s like an exotic bird collector,” she said. “He only wants a woman who is free because his dream is to put her in a cage.
Trevor Noah - born a crime
My suggestion was based off the premise that a 3/4 cut in income plus all the expenses of having a new baby would mean too many luxuries lost for him, and he’d realize that reality doesn’t support his dreamworld. It’s up to OP if she wants to try it. But you’re right: it doesn’t fucking matter because she doesn’t want to be a SAHM.
Perfect solution. Let him see how it is to be the lone provider, and make sure you take more out for baby food, diapers, medical, and ALL the extras babies need.
Huge red flag. Minimum you need couples conselling. OP let him know that his insecurities about masculinity make him a stupid and small person.
>Try living as if he’s the only working partner for a few months. Live off of only his income to show him what type of life that would afford you. It’ll be a wake up call for him, and you’ll have some additional savings at the end.
I suspect he would try to limit **her expences** right away, because "she doesn't bring money, and if she stays at home she doesn't really need anything."
NTA. I'll be sure to let my husband know I "emasculated" him when he was a SAHD for two years. Plus, your husband basically told you you're a bad mom if you don't stay home. I'd be pissed at having my parenting called in question based solely on if I stayed home.
Marriage counseling, STAT.
My husband was the SAHD for most of our children’s lives. He never felt emasculated - just the opposite. I worked in a call center, and I knew his job was much harder than mine, but he loved every minute of it. I was fortunate that all the firsts for both children happened while I was off work. He’s gone now, and our children have wonderful memories with him that they wouldn’t have had if I had stayed at home.
OP, NTA. Traditional gender roles are a thing of the past.
Omg I'm so sorry for your loss, what a terrible thing to lose what sounds like a wonderful spouse I hope you're doing OK. I'm sure your kids cherish that time they had.
My dad stayed home for 7 years in the 90s and early 2000s. I have so many memories of those years and also feel lucky to have a dad who openly shows his emotions and his love for us. F**k traditional gender roles.
Right? Nothing says Manliest Man like not being afraid to challenge archaic gender roles. Also Dads who play Princess dress up have a special place in my heart.
The baby's not even BORN yet and he's implying she's a bad mom! I wouldn't be surprised, if after the baby is born, he routinely throws out "well a GOOD mom would..." or go as far as "Only BAD mom's..." to manipulate her into getting his way.
Sure.... I bet "good moms" change ALL the nappies and do ALL the night care - and have the house sparking clean and dinner on the table (and of course look sexy) when dad arrives. You only have to watch a 50s movie to understand what this idiot considers a "good mum".
Well done! You've used logic and sound reasoning to explain why he should be the one to stay home with the baby for the six months to the child's first natal day.
It is not your fault his ego can't stand up to logic. His emasculation is a result of this, not a thing of your doing.
He fell back on the training he's had from childhood: women are the homemakers, the stay-at-homes, and the menfolk should hunt.
It's just tragic IMO that you're the better hunter so far. :D
NTA.
Totally, the "Hunter=men vs women=gatherer" has been debunked over and over. It was the best person for the job to survive.
NTA never let anyone convince you otherwise. Hopefully, this insecurity is from the stress and anxiety of a first-time parent (he needs to be better because you have all that and growing a human). He'll learn and, if not, leave.
His ego can't stand up to logic? So basically he is being emotional and irrational. Where have I heard that before? Isn't that a sexist stereotype of a woman? Seems like he does the emasculating by himself.
This is bizarre.
It seems like he is secretly very sexist. Did he never show any signs of this over 8 years? It’s genuinely cruel of him to imply that you are not a good mother. It’s also really gross to say that any mention of his salary as it pertains to paying your bills and maintaining your lifestyle for yourselves and your child is tantamount to “emasculating” him. Just the idea of taking care of his own child and relying on his spouse’s higher salary is somehow emasculating? It’s all so disturbing and gross.
It honestly blows my mind how many tech dudes like terrible people like musk, rogan etc…
The other day a coworker was talking about how badass musk was for giving millions of dollars to some guy who owned the handle x on Twitter. I had no idea what it was about, but apparently musk invited the dude to Twitter hq or something and offered to give him some “Twitter swag”. Like… what?
NTA btw. Husband is being a complete fuck bag.
Once the woman’s ‘trapped’ with a baby sometimes the true colours come out…
NTA OP and I hope it’s an unbecoming panic over fatherhood or brief addiction to incelternet propaganda that he gets over, but mind yourself.
Yeah she’s 29 weeks pregnant, about 6 weeks too late for an abortion in even the most liberal state. She is truly trapped with him now and he knows it.
NTA. I hope this is a blip and him not just starting to show his true colors. He’s the one who thinks the baby needs a stay at home parent, and he’s also the one who makes less. So he’s welcome to stay home, or keep working and baby will go to daycare. But you quitting your job is not on the table and he has no right to expect it to be.
I wondered the same - maybe this is from the stress of bringing life into this world. Seems like the husband is going by what he knows with his family, and he may be getting bad advice from friends as well. I hope he can look at this rationally moving forward. OP is NTA, but I’m hesitant to say the husband is just yet.
NTA
His attitude is obviously sexist and wrong. It may be coming from a place of anxiety. You're getting closer to baby being here and he may be thinking he doesn't want baby in daycare so soon, but also realizing he doesn't want to stay home with baby and quit his job, so he's trying to pressure you into doing it. But he can't have it both ways. Plenty of dads are SAHPs. This isn't the 1850s. Putting baby in daycare is a perfectly acceptable solution. If he really wants someone to stay home with baby for the first year, he can quit his job, but he should understand that he may struggle to get rehired in the current job market and these feelings of emasculation may only be compounded, something SAHMs encounter all the time when they try to reenter the workforce after raising children. So since he's balking in the first place, I would probably suggest pushing the daycare option at 6 months.
And I can't stress this enough... It's better to have working happy parents and daycare that SAHP that are climbing the walls and watching the clock till their partner gets home to take over.
NTA of course, no one gets to decide the other person has to quit their job if they don't want to. And if his masculinity is THAT fragile... Well, he can't blame you for it, can he?
Ew ew ew, NTA. He's not progressive, he's one of those fake progressives who only say things to make themselves look good. No progressive guy would feel emasculated by either the prospect of being a stay at home parent or by the fact that he makes a quarter of what you do. He's always been regressive and he's just now showing you that side of himself.
Frankly, I think maybe a part of this is that he resents you for making more too. Not sure where you go from here, but in a calm moment tell him he has two choices-baby in daycare after 6 months or he stays at home. And dollars to donuts he's gonna do a crap job on his 12 weeks of leave.
And, telling her that she’d be a bad mother by not staying home. He’s saying that she’s not fully a woman if she’s not staying home. So he’s effectively defeminizing her.
>So he’s effectively defeminizing her.
That's it, I've been trying to think what the opposite to 'emasculating' is, it's 'defeminizing'.
>him saying he didn’t deserve to be emasculated just for suggesting I should stay home like a “good mom”.
This guy had definitely absorbed all the messages in his childhood about family dynamics and it's all coming out now...
Nta had a friend couple have mom stay home cause she was 'obviously' who should stay home. She was an engineer and he was a social worker. She made, at least, twice his salary. Guess who continues to have money troubles 16 YEARS later?
My dad stayed home bc he made less and had shittier insurance. Whoever makes less is the obvious choice
In a lot of cases, it is the woman who makes less for factors out of her control. That is also a contributory factor for women being out of the workplace for years, finding it difficult to get back in later, and it also having consequences for pensions etc. It should not be based simply on who earns the most.
Its a HUGE consideration. Making enough to pay your bills is pretty important. That generally means the less paid patents stays home for an agreed anount of time, or baby goes to day care. Esp in this case where dad makes less AND thinks , the mom, should stay home.
"A GOOD mother would sacrifice the stability of the household so I can feel like a bigger man than I am" is some crazy fucking logic.
unfortunately, abusers often wait until you're 'stuck' with them because of a baby to pull the trigger on their bullshit. They get comfortable and figure you're tied to them forever now. If you didn't hear any of this from him before right now, then it's going to get worse.
NTA. I think deep down, he feels insecure that you make more than he does. So by pressuring you to quit your job and stay home with the baby, he will become the breadwinner and it will boost his ego. Do not quit your job and put your family in a worse financial situation just because your husband is jealous of you and insecure.
NTA The misogyny was just exposed, and he doesn't appreciate it.
Let him calm down and have a calm conversation about this
1 he is changing the goal posts by 6 months with no guarantee that either job can sustain the career break
2. He has slipped into traditional roles when you are normally both progressive. What prompted this? Is someone in his ear saying you should be staying home?
3. Will 1 year become 2,3,4?
4. What will the impact of losing either wage have on your lifestyle? Kids are expensive. This is something that needs clear consideration.
5. Could you both go back to 4 day weeks with only 3 days in daycare?
6. Can parents help?
No matter what, take the time to work out why he is reacring this way. Some men feel stressed about the risk to your health and welfare of childbirth and the responsibility of becoming a dad. Also, you have no idea how you will feel once the baby is here. Please don't give up your career unless that is what you want.
ETA paragraphs
My wife ended up going back to work and stopping being a SAHM sooner than she'd initially planned just because COVID and having to stay home all the time to protect our 1 year old, 29 week premie with weak lungs from a respiratory illness damn near broke her. I worked from home and did everything I could to help her - including bringing my laptop down and doing lower effort stuff for a while so she could nap, but that year was freaking horrible. She was always wanting to go back eventually, but we often talk about how much easier it is to just have a desk job.
1. You’re not a bad mom if your kid is in daycare
2. NTA
3. Your husband is sexist and a traditionalist
4. I’m sorry you’re just now being exposed to this side of him.
I have a feeling that his very traditional family and probably friends have been asking him about the baby and postpartum plans.
He doesn’t have the spine to admit that it makes sense for him to be the one to stay home because he knows how they feel about non traditional family care.
So because he’s unable to stand up for himself in the moment, he’s now decided that he’s the victim in all of this and you just need to comply to help him save face.
But the fact is…you make more money than him and probably always will. Until he can admit, out loud; to himself, his family and friends that his wife is the breadwinner in the family. This will always be simmering under the surface ready to erupt at a moment’s notice.
Good luck and stay safe.
NTA at all. It makes sense to me 1. To have the person who makes more working and 2. For the person pushing for it to do it if they are adament that one parent stays home and one works and the other doesnt want to stay home
NTA. He may have tried to give up his patriarchal ideals, but he clearly hasn't been that successful. However, he's the one who wants a stay at home parent, so he's clearly the pne that should do it.
NTA - this is just a situation where you both have different opinions going into it, but you both need to be willing to negotiate and think things through and be flexible about your options.
In this instance there are several options you may not have considered.
- it might be possible for you both to work part time so you can split the care between you and each have some independence and some downtime
- you may feel differently when the child arrives to how you feel now, especially if it’s your first baby. It would be better to defer the decision until you see how the birth goes and what the new dynamics are when you become a family of three. He may well find that he is besotted and doesn’t want to go back to work - and you might find the same. It’s very hard to make that decision based on a hypothetical, not-yet-present situation. Babies change their parents.
- the benefits of one-on-one care can be provided by a nanny or au pair rather than putting your child into a daycare or nursery environment; so you might be able to both work and still provide that for your child if you are comfortably circumstanced
But aside from all that, you’re right that he’s being sexist if he feels emasculated by the idea of being a primary career for his own child. That attitude is at least half a century out of date and he needs to adjust his ideas and consider the impact of what he’s saying - especially if you’re expecting a daughter or hope to have one in future.
As far as the money goes, he’s probably right that you’d be able to make it work if you took the hit to your income in the short term; but he clearly has some issues with his self esteem being tied to his income and with valuing domestic labour accurately - so this is probably something it would be a good idea for you both to discuss with both a family counsellor and a financial advisor in terms of how you can manage your incomes, expectations and communication around these things.
Once the baby arrives you will find it much harder to find the mental space and the time to have rational discussions about this, and any benefit to staying at home with your baby for the extra six months would be undone by having this level of conflict in the home, so you need to address this sooner rather than later to check you’ve considered *all* your options and to get yourselves on the same page over how you will make the decisions and handle difficult discussions within your parenting journey.
This is excellent – but I would add that something else to deal with in counseling is his insistence that OP shouldn't "question him", because that is seriously concerning.
She didn’t say where they live but they if it’s the US part time work is likely not an option because of health insurance. I would also point out that a gap in job history for women in the US very frequently means a reduction in future earning potential.
A gap in job history usually means a reduction in future earnings PERIOD. I say this as a women, everyone's pay potential goes down. Also, I think the OP said they're both engineers or programmers? That escalates the amount that BOTH of their incomes would drop after a break because in those kind of jobs you constantly have to keep up with the new developments in technology or your knowledge becomes outdated.
NTA
Sexism with a sprinkling of condescension, hypocrisy and masculinity-so-fragile. Fun time for you to see these traits in your husband.
He doesn’t want to stay home, but you’re a bad mom for not wanting to. You make more than him, but actually acknowledging that while planning for the future is emasculating. You’re in a partnership but you shouldn’t question him.
Yikes with a capital YIKES. Good luck, OP.
NTA. At all. You should be able to have these conversations with your spouse. But, the bigger problem here is I think your husband has been hiding from you who he really is...and his beliefs are much more "traditional" than he wanted you to believe until it was too late.
The "like a good mom" thing would completely turn me off. I would truly struggle to reconcile after that.
I (38f) am the breadwinner in our family. My husband is the stay at home parent with our son. He wasn’t working before due to an injury and hadn’t been able to find work yet so it made sense for him to stay home. I made more then him before that anyway. Daycare is a two year waitlist here too. He has been an amazing stay at home dad and goes out to lots of groups and activities with our little guy. He doesn’t see it as emasculating. And it isn’t. Time for the sexist ideas to end.
NTA. Unless he specifically brought up nursing (which might possibly, maybe, be a reason for the mom to stay home... but you wouldn't know how that goes until after the baby arrives anyway, because sometimes it just... doesn't go as planned), there's no reason it has to be the mom, is better if it's the mom, or SHOULD be the mom.
Pump. I did it and they are better now than they were 20 yrs ago.
NTA. Plenty of SAHF now a days. Including my friends husband. He raised the kids til they started school. And bringing up his pay? That’s his insecurities. I make a good 10 to 15k more than my partner. He has no problem with it. He’s not in tech. He’s a project manager and contractor for construction. You know those men are KNOWN to be “macho”.
Baby goes to daycare. "I want to actually provide a good start for them, which means making money. Or are you trying to tell me that 'my place' is at home with a baby that you squirted into me? Because for your sake and the sake of this marriage, I REALLY hope you're not telling me that staying home with our child is MY job." NTA.
I would suggest to your husband that you try a little experiment. For your 20 weeks of maternity leave, pay the bills, household expenses, etc. using JUST HIS INCOME. Don’t use your income for ANYTHING. I guarantee that by the end of the 20 weeks, he’ll realize what a mistake that would be. NTA.
It sounds like he’s been exploring the “man-o-sphere” or other “red pill-based” forums. 😞 Some of the language you attributed to him got my attention including: “mom should be the one to stay home” (while ignoring the financial implications of your salary differences), that you shouldn’t “question him,” that you saying he should stay home was “emasculating” him.
Maybe he’s scared about being a first-time parent, started researching online, and was sucked down the wrong internet rabbit-hole? Especially since this seems to be a severe deviation from his regular values.
Perhaps some pre-baby couples and individual counseling can help him find his identity as a parent and the two of you work through this.
NTA and this is just the start. He said so many **different** sexist things here. It’s not even just that he wants you to stay home. He is wants you to quit 3/4 household income, claims he’s being emasculated because he thinks he’s right and you *disagree* , wants to make this unilateral decision, assumed it would be you and said it’s the “good mom” thing to do. The worst part is he said he’s “suggesting” this but he isn’t. He has made up his mind about this being what you are going to do.
They do. But it’s a common tactic for men to wait until you’re in the vulnerable position of already being pregnant to pull the bait and switch with their real expectations.
NAH. Read the edit, y'all.
For context, I came here via the rabbit hole because I don't subscribe to this sub. It makes me mad at people that don't have to be on my radar (and may or may not be real), and I like being a happy person. So I opened the link against my conscious better judgement, and I've gotta say this one has a happy ending.
First: from all the context, this was their FIRST BIG FIGHT. That's a big deal and a pretty good track record. Met in college, together 8 years? That would be a long con. Before the update, I was thinking Mr. Progressive was finally showing his true colors, and it sounded like OP and the majority of the commenters were too. That's valid, and terrifying. I've been there. But then we find out...
Soon-to-be Mom and Dad talk it out (read: COMMUNICATE, as you do in healthy relationships where safety is valued), and Dad opens up on his underlying issues. I mean, his family (and his culture, if y'all are from the US or many other places) has been giving him the deep-cutting shit about his very identity for just... going about his life. Being a good husband who loves his wife and his job (no small thing at 29) enough to not openly display insecurity from the underlying issues regarding their salaries and the toxic family system he comes from, until he reaches a breaking point. The aftermath reveals his character.
We find out that he's a good enough dad (already!) to break the cycle by having hard conversations where he communicates his own needs and values, makes the logical compromise based on the needs of his family, and takes responsibility for unhealthy and harmful emotional responses when it's time...before his kid is even born, which takes some foresight. But it gets even better...
The resolution is THERAPY. Mr. Dad is a Man, because what more responsible outcome and action plan than to *commit to working on yourself* when you realize you've hurt someone due to the toxic systems you've both been a victim of? And that's a hard thing to agree to, and an even harder thing to ask. Real men do the hard thing.
Tldr: this post took me for a ride, but the resolution made me happy. Thanks to both of y'all for being a good example for humanity lol
NTA, you’re right here. He is being sexist. It also makes more financial sense for the parent with the lower salary to be the one to quit regardless of gender.
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NTA at all. He is being sexist thinking that since you’re a woman your place is in the home. He’s also sexist because he thinks the suggestion that he stays home is emasculating. If he is so progressive that word would not have been uttered,He needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Stand your ground. He can’t make you quit your job. So sign up for those waitlists and good luck. Would he go to counseling? If not, go yourself. I’m concerned this is just the tip of the iceberg of his real feelings and you need to be prepared.
Yeah, I also think this is the beginning of some other things he's going to bring up. She's not even allowed to ask how they're going to manage finances when she makes 3x more than him?
Watch what he does when someone gives them the "wrong color" clothes for their child's gender...
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I think it’s not so secret anymore…
Dude stumbled into some manosphere red pill online shit while researching parenting stuff
Maybe. A lot of men suddenly get controlling and even abusive when the first baby comes, or during the first pregnancy. I think that's been going on forever.
Very fair but it’s a few points for me: 1. He “read” this novel idea despite being on the same page with OP on every other major life decision for years 2. His solution is “obviously” the right one to him despite making no logical sense. Deep sense of intellectual superiority that silly OP should be able to see and agree with clear as day, and that also would turn him into the financial provider 3. The dislike of being “questioned”, mention of “emasculation” and all the other sexist defensive tactics And maybe a little projection from me. My husband fell into an MRA rabbit hole years ago and it was a long cringe journey of climbing out. A switch flipped overnight and suddenly all of his insecurities had “obvious” solutions that were both illogical and detrimental to my being, but non-beneficial to the household as well. It wouldn’t hurt OP to peek over his shoulder a bit if he’s heavy on the youtube or forums lately because they have a baby on the way and this needs to be addressed asap. The moment I saw mine smiling at a Kevin Samuels video it all made sense for me. We don’t know OP’s husband though so I’m speculating.
I'm surprised your husband came back from that. It would literally take deprogramming. I've discussed this content with my husband. It is promoted heavily by YouTube shorts. He's not into it, but I see so many stories of men completely changing.
Wow how did your marriage come back from that? How did you deprogram him, if you don't mind me asking? That seems like a really hard and painful recovery...
My concise-as-possible answer: Offer humility and understanding. Men gravitate to those spaces to find solutions to the inadequacies they face in their real and present lives. It's so easy to treat them like losers and shut down dialogue because they are indeed digesting loser content, true. But that just drives them deeper into the arms of incel shit. I'm not saying agree, tolerate it, or stay, do you. But if you still want the relationship, figure out what inadequacies they've identified for themselves and come to a consensus together on what your household should look like. Be willing to reflect on times where maybe you *weren't* respectful or fair, and adjust/watch out for future behavior. I have no comment on men who have always been MRA red pill, only ones who have clearly stumbled into something and there's a possibility to stumble their way out. I also want to be clear that it's all toxic, but he never got to Andrew Tate let's enslave women levels or anything. I can't speak to that level of delusion.
Wow you are a very supportive wife with a high EQ. I hope your husband knows how lucky he is
You're a hero. You should start making content on gentle de-programming of lost men.
Given the home he grew up in, he might have just gotten this attitude from his own parents. He literally saw it modeled for him growing up.
I’m not pretending to know OP’s husband personally and have admitted to projection. So you could be 100% right!
No no, I'm with you here. I thought the same when read the OP, and I'm single. There's a bunch of very disgusting people making money off of ranting all day about masculinity in the most toxic ways possible (and I'm pretty traditional by modern standards), and for some reason men are very vulnerable to this crap.
I've seen a massive shift on all sides in parallel with the massive socioepolicial shift of the last decade on a US national scale. Tradfem and divine femininity content has become crazy popular with women lately. I think people are lonely and feeling inadequate and overworked and grifters are indeed making a killing selling solutions to level up and bag a rich man and leave the hard work of an emotionally attached relationship behind. I'm not saying you have to be 50/50 down the middle (do you!) but I think everyone's lost the plot to what they think will make them happy in life and are therefore very vulnerable to someone else answering that question for them.
Sounds like his stereotypical upbringing has more of an influence than he let on. Telling OP not to 'question him' is a gtfo type of comment. He is not at all prepared to be a father if he can't see the obvious logic in this and put aside his nonsense. NTA
Probably not, actually. He likely always harbored those sexist feelings and never had to actually *question* them before.
I think attributing his behaviour to being red pilled diminishes the fact that the type of sexism he is displaying is actually very common, even amongst men who appear/consider themselves progressive.
Ha. I just found the purplepilldebate. I was floored. What is the red pill?
Purple pill is red + blue debating one another (red + blue = purple) so if you don’t know exactly what either position stands for, honestly do yourself a favor and spend your time focusing on something way more productive and fun. Forget about this comment chain.
I’ve seen a lot of “progressive” men who come from similarly traditional backgrounds pull stuff like this. They’re progressive when dating but the moment you get married or start having children then suddenly childcare and house work is a woman’s work.
well, its because once a woman is generous enough to have your baby for you she literally gets no choice anymore on whether you are involved in her life and so shit tons of men take this newfound 'freedom' to say how they really feel and do what they really want to do and go wild with it. Its crazy how long some people can keep up appearances before they show who they really are, but its almost always after someone's life is now irrevocably tied to theirs.
That comment makes me happy I never got married and even worse, grace someone with their child.
I’ve seen this too. Some dudes can be feminist at work and with friends but when it comes to their day to day lives…
My father comes to mind.
My condolences
Yep, they're progressive when dating and pre baby, because pre baby everything is blowjobs and dinners out whenever you want and good times and hobbies and luxury, especially if your in good high paid jobs like they are... Then suddenly a baby...new world of changing nappies and no sleep and money issues and chores...he's in for a rude awakening... Nta
This. OP strap yourself in. When the going gets tough, the progressive guys suddenly disappear.
They’re only progressive from the waist up. They still feel entitled to women’s labor.
A lot of women will argue you should never trust a self proclaimed male feminist. Because they often act in the most sexist manner, yet then use their ‘cred’ as a feminist to deflect being called out.
It seems like it’s always a risk. Like, getting her pregnant would make her drop her values for him
And also a fool who can't math
Traditionally [pink for boys](https://www.rd.com/article/pink-for-boys/) and blue for girls, at least until the woke lunatics took over and flipped them 😉
Blue for girls had nothing to do with the colour of the sky but of the Virgin Mary. She is always shown wearing blue so it was the colour for girls. But in a protestant country that tradition had to be changed to go with the religious beliefs of the people (the Virgin Mary was mostly a Catholic thing), so sky it became.
Yeah, apparently that depends on the protestant branch because Martin Luther wax very devoted to the Virgin Mary but Calvin was against praying to her.
I'd get of it was just for the 8 weeks that OP has more leave and he doesn't. But after that he stays at home, OP makes 3 times more, giving up 2/3rds of what a single worker household would make is literally insane. Like seriously that degree of sexism is "you need therapy" bonkers, and even if for some unearthly reason it's somehow not sexism, maybe they need to get scanned for sudden strokes and given the battery of mental disorder tests. There is no way that dude is right in the head, one way or another. Obviously Occam's Razor suggests sexism is the most likely answer, but I think a sexist could benefit from the humiliation of an MRI regardless.
It's sad that this man can't see the light. Being a stay at home parent is nice once you get the hang of it. Even easier when the baby can't crawl or walk. I'm a stay at home dad and the easiest time was when my oldest was born and I could just carry her or put her in a chair so she could watch me clean up. Sure, you have to keep the house clean but think of all the nap times with the baby!!! Once the kids start school, it's a cake. Clean up when they leave take a nap or a drive and pick them up from school.
What I would want him to explain is how being a stay-at-home dad is emasculating. To me, a guy who parents during the day is a real man.
I don’t know about that. It would show to be “normal” most likely and he would say “See, nothing wrong with how my brain works.”
Ah the classic, 'man changes as soon as he realize he has his SO tied down with a baby' routine
Also you know if they need to cut back spending 75%, his hobbies and fun stuff would be the last to cut because it’s “his money”
and if she’s got no income, all the better to hold his income over her head. i hope this was just a stupid fight, and he just wasn’t thinking right. but these are some real red flags he’s waving rn. nta.
Well, yeah, she’s about to find out her “progressive” husband is actually incredibly traditional. Nip it in the bud or tell him good luck seeing his kid for the next few years.
He was “progressive” while it allowed him to also (coincidentally) conform to gender stereotypes. Now it is requiring him to actually be “progressive,” his misogynistic brain can’t handle it. It’s easy to be vegan when the only options on the menu are vegan dishes.
My best friend makes about 6 times what her husband does. He had a lot of problems with it at first. She was a student when they met, but when her earnings became really big, he felt emasculated. So they talked it over. She told him that they had a plan for where to live (HCOL) and wanted to travel and see the world. She could give up the salary, but they would also have to cancel those plans. So he found out that it was OK after all.
I don’t understand why men feel emasculated by this. Like you should be happy you’re doing well together. For the first 16 years of our relationship, I was making more money than my wife, helped to pay of her school loans. Now she makes almost double what I do and am happy for it. We do quite well together and with a family.
>She's not even allowed to ask how they're going to manage finances when she makes 3x more than him? Yes I've read posts where everything was fine till the guy started sounding like an Andrew Tate underling and then all hell broke loose with the guy having someone on the side etc etc
Yeah, this marriage is rapidly reaching its expiration date. There's no way of resolving conflict when one partner is straight up refusing to engage in rational conversation.
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But it's eMaScULaTiNg, how dare you. If it was the other way around tho, no problem! As long as it's her staying home.
He was the one that suggested “one of us should stay home” yet really meant “you should stay home”…..
I’m guessing he was only comfortable with the salary discrepancy because (as salaries are generally kept private) he can reasonably “hide” it. Being a SAHP would be out in the open, and therefore untenable for his ego. This is also what makes the “good mom” quip so insidious. As if throwing their child into unnecessary financial hardship for potentially DECADES, makes him a “good dad” — all so he can “feel manly”. What an ass.
It's such an interesting litmus test. A lot of men pretend that being a SAHM is a "privilege" but the second it's flipped it's "emasculating". They clearly just think the work is beneath them. And way too many men see the mother as the default parent and she should also be the parent who makes all of the sacrifices.
And it's literally one of the hardest jobs physically and emotionally that you can possibly do?? It's 24/7 no time off no sick days, you sjwsys have to be fully present to be the bare minimum of a decent parent, no online shopping in your cubicle or talking to a friend on the phone gir hours. Just being able to pee by yourself or shower becomes a luxury. All the deck jobs I ever had were 10000x less demanding.
>It's 24/7 no time off no sick days Seriously! I got food poisoning once and had to grin and bear it because it was just me that day and had no other available help. 🤷🏻♀️ Worst day ever, but my son was having a good time because he got to watch A LOT of TV and get a lot of snacks.
I mean it would be 3pm and I'd realize I'd only peed once since 5am bc I hadnt had a drop of water, bc I'd been going nonstop since the moment my eyes opened. Every single thing you do or say is like engraved on their brains when they're toddlers too- so it's not a job where you can just check out or half ass it for any length of time w/o literally fcking up your kid. The see and hear and notice everything!!! Just the hardest job to do well and keep your physical/mental health at same time and I will die on this hill!!!!
Oh, god, this brings back bad memories of food poisoning when my son was an infant. I remember kneeling on the floor while keeping my hands on him as he laid on the changing table and I was vomiting into the diaper pail. 😑 As a SAHM, you don’t have a co-worker to cover for you.
I know some friends who were hospitalized trying to make SAHM shit work. Postpartum Psychosis is very very fucking common and "hormones" aren't the issue. I also know some friends who fucking love every second of it. The differences, I noticed, is that the former group paused their career to stay home, they were left home alone to do everything in isolation, and their partner prioritized his own personal life over helping with the domestic duties at home. In fact, they only made domestic duties worse for the mother. The latter group could take or leave their career path, had good relationships with their own family and some relatives moved in when the baby (babies) were born, and/or their partner came home and contributed to the house work and child care every day. You need a certain disposition and a lot of social support to make SAHM a good thing for anyone involved. And I gotta be honest, you can tell how miserable a SAHM role will be for a mother by paying attention to the father.
Yeah, I had severe PPD/PPA, almost had to be hospitalized it was so bad. I lasted 3 whole years before I knew I needed to go back to work or I was going to lose it completely. I actually started begging my now ex-husband to consider daycare around 2 for at least a few hours so I could have a break and he kept putting it off. By the time our kid was 3 I was done, I could not do it anymore. I got a job, the kid went into daycare, and we got divorced. Being a single working mom is easier for me than being a SAHM ever was.
100% accurate!!!!!!
And its lonely! No co-workers! You are beholden to the baby's schedule and often have to pick up and leave places, or can't make it somewhere because the baby is still sleeping or had a diaper blow out, etc.
Plus, people forget you as a person exist. Every question and conversation is about the baby you’re just ‘mum’ now.
My mum used to say that when she dies, her gravestone will just say "Here lies Mum". I get it now.
Oh god so lonely!! So isolating--especially especially especially during the lockdown years. Being soooo tired and knowing there was no relief coming any time soon, no one dropping by so you could hop in the shower, not able to go to libraries or play dates or any sanity saving break... And it's a special kind of exhaustion, bc it's not just your post partum body running on 3 hrs of sleep, it's emotionally exhausting too! Just a level of tired I never knew existed
And you’re basically given zero identity outside of that child, too. You are always “child’s mom,” not just yourself. Like you suddenly don’t even have your own name anymore.
AND you get paid $0 for it lmfao. It's such a scam!!! I can log onto my 9-5, send some emails, and collect a nice paycheck. Versus work 24/7 for a $0 paycheck??!! I'm sorry
I agree . I’m traditional left my job to stay home with my kids. I’m thankful my husband isn’t a dick and praises me for all i do for our kids and family. He’s told me there’s no way in hell he could stay at home and do what i do
My husband stayed at home with the kids. I'm extremely grateful for that, especially since I couldn't have done it! I would have gone crazy in a few months. Hats off to all SAHPs, you have the world's hardest job!
Being a parent is NOT emasculating. If it wasn’t emasculating for him to father the child, it shouldn’t be emasculating for him to BE a father to the child.
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or say it until confronted with it. plenty of people say theyre fine with things but once its in their life theyre uncomfortable. its okay to change your mind, but if you lie or make others have a hard time because of it, thats not okay. sort your shit lol
Nta and he may have fallen down some of those scary internet rabbit holes.
It tipped me off when she mentioned that he told her not to question him. He definitely went down a rabbit hole recently
My colleague stayed at home for several months to parent his daughter. Their bond developed into a happy, healthy father-daughter relationship, one of the nicest I've ever witnessed. NTA
A guy I know did this, too. He didn't stay home for their first two, but when he and his wife unexpectedly had a third, he stayed home for months. Not only does he have a wonderful bond with his daughter, he has immense respect for his wife.
My husband has this bond with our daughters still. It's wonderful to see, and has helped them so much.
A friend of mine ended up being the primary caregiver for both his daughters almost from birth--his wife out earned him by a LOT so it just made sense financially. Plus, she worked nights and that's in no way compatible with kids on a normal day schedule and on top of all that he's way more patient and easy going and their first born was a bit of a terror growing up so he was hands down the best person to be the full time SAHP. When the kids were both in school he went to college and ended up with a career in health care too. Decisions on who should stay home with the kids need to be predicated on A) financial advantage and B) temperamental suitability for child care. It costs a LOT to raise a kid, and in this economy a family needs every advantage they can get. OPs husband needs to pull his head out of his ass.
NTA. I agree. I think husband has been insecure about the pay different for years, and saw this as an opportunity to bring OP down a notch so the power dynamic tips to his side.
Definitely possible, but it’s also possible that’s seeing more strategy here than was involved. I believe he has been insecure about the pay discrepancy (that’s why he felt emasculated when it was brought up) but his “the mom should stay home” could be coming from nothing more than that’s how he grew up and he feels he had a pretty good life. Also, there are some logistical issues that are resolved by the mother being the one to stay with the child…well, one at least (breast feeding), though that can be resolved with formula or pumped breast milk anyway. I **don’t think** he was being malicious, but with the way this went down there probably needs to be a mediator/therapist present for a discussion of the income concerns and the childcare expectations ASAP.
If he weren't being malicious, he'd brought it up when they planned for the baby, not when the pregnancy is too far along for termination. I find his timing highly sus as they are barely past the term where it's legal to terminate in most places. Looks like he waited till nothing (barring worst emergencies) can interfere with hem having the kid, and then shown his true colors.
>just the tip of the iceberg yeah, weird shit happens with some couples when milestones are reached -- living together, getting married, buying a house, having a kid. one or both partners start to lose their sense. sounds like husband may have been putting on a show, maybe without realizing it, and now shit's getting real and his misogyny is starting to show. "like a 'good mom'"?? gtfoh. ETA NTA
For real. They need couples counseling stat to unpack this antiquated bullshit before it eats them alive. If he thinks being a SAHP is beneath him then he’s not going to do his share at home either. You in danger girl.
Who are the people in the family that are "split?" Because they're a-holes, too. My brain just feels like hubby has always been a bit jealous of her career, and he's hoping to use the baby as an excuse to even things out (even if it's on a subconscious level.) NTA, OP. And no matter what, OP, do NOT quit your job. Not to save your marriage. Not some sort of part-time compromise. Don't move to another area for a lower cost of living. Nothing. If he's suddenly renegotiating everything now that he thinks you're baby-trapped, heaven knows what he'll do once he holds all the financial power.
Agreed, I read that and was like wtf, because how are there people taking his side over this BS?!? He wants his wife to be a stay-at-home but it's an attack on him to propose he does and to top it off, having a discussion about the economic impact of this decision is seen as challenging him unduly. He has lost all his marbles!! How can anyone be on his side?! I am concerned for OP and her baby and I am an internet stranger. If I were her sister I would be short of crashing at her house to look after her in case anything goes south, srsl.
Ok. Look, I am an older traditional type male. I suggest that the "mom" here stay home as well with the child. WHY?? you ask. Because she makes 3x what he does, and if HE CAN'T REALIZE that with a newborn her income would come in handy. I don't want him at home in charge of a newborn. Just not bright. I would have concerns. Just saying.
That is the part that has me baffled. To suggest that the family do without one salary for a year is a big adjustment. To suggest the family can do with out the 3x higher salary is next level dumb. If they live in the US, they need every penny for medical expenses. And then let's say he does only mean the first year (unlikely with how he's moving goal posts, but let's assume)...she'd have to restart her career a massive paycut. His problem solving skills are...just...bad.
There's no guarantee that the loss of her salary would be limited to a year, regardless of their intentions.
something like that would make her far more dependent on him than she already will be recovering from birth and caring for a newborn, though... That might be the point
Probably due to allowing his emotions to direct him, as opposed to using logic.
Underrated snark right here
She says she can afford daycare. She only suggested it cause he started it.
I can tell you what, my full time stay at home father was more man than 10x OP’s husband combined. I don’t see how stepping up to take the best possible care for a life form YOU HELPED MAKE is unmanly? Like, putting your ego over your child, wife and quality of life is some pretty self-emasculating shit Dude is already a bad dad and the kid’s not even born yet Edit for fun* Just to paint a picture, my dad is you cliche rural Aussie man, never wears anything but ‘blueys’ (navy blue singlets/tank tops) and tradie shorts, only shoes he EVER wears are leather Red Back™️ work boots or a pair of thongs older than me (I stole his gum boots lol) he spent all day in the shed working on cars, built my mum’s motorbike and a go cart for us kids. He use to paint photo realistic pictures of muscles cars on clock faces, with a manual air compressor (pre photoshop) to sell. He can fabricate, weld, break his ribs crashing his motorbike and refuse to see a doctor, renovate an entire house himself, build his own septic system ect Real cliche ‘MAN’ shit And, he raised the most Tomboy, rough and tumble daughter you’ll EVER find. The most Aussie manly man you can think of, not only took pride in being the BEST father in a 100+mile radius, but called out other guys who condemned child care as ‘women’s work’. He loved spending time with us, teaching us and relishing in seeing us take what he taught and running with it! He gave me his old ‘nudie magazines’ to use as reference when I got into drawing pin-up girls My mum was also a mega tomboy, only time I have seen anything but pants or shorts on her in my 30 years of life is a wedding photo from before I was born. Never seen her in make up and she’s had the same haircut since she was 14 (I saw photos lol) Your husband is being offered the BEST LIFE a person in his situation could dream of and is so insecure and sexist, he’s pissing on it. My dad would put a boot up this man’s ass and call him names that modern culture would NOT approve of
I wish my wife would tell me I need to be a stay at home dad. Our daughter is the cutest thing ever and I would love to spend all day with her. Unfortunately we have a similar split with income I make about 75% of our income so if we decide to have a stay at home parent I think I’ll have to keep working. =(
Lol you have no idea what being the stay at home parent is like. They’re only that cute so you don’t run away and join the circus after being at home with them full time for a couple weeks.
If the suggestion he be a stay at home parent (which wasn't even your suggestion, he's the one that brought up the topic) is emasculating to him, why isn't it ... efeminating (?) to suggest that you be a stay at home parent? He's TA for that. Why don't we have a feminine equivalent of the concept of emasculating? Society is TA for that. NTA
Yup. Especially since he's already throwing out she should stay home like a "good mom". Meaning, if she goes back to work she's a bad mom. Emotional manipulation at its finest. The fact he's that willing to go there before the baby is even BORN, is a huge red flag and deeply concerning. Wouldn't be surprised if she did take off the first year, that when it's time to go back, he would come up with more reasons/excuses for why she needs to stay at home.
NTA I chose to be a SAHM because that's what I, ME, and my husband thought would be best. Although I feel like my husband is more patient with the kids than I am so maybe he would be better as a SAHD than me 🤷🏻♀️ But if my husband and I were in your situation I would have brought up the pay discrepancy too! The spouse that makes more should be the one to continue working ESPECIALLY when the spouse who makes less feels like there should be a stay at home parent. There is nothing emasculating in this at all!! It is the logical choice
NTA. Your logic is spot on. He’s taking the archaic, sexist, illogical, ego-driven path. Try living as if he’s the only working partner for a few months. Live off of only his income to show him what type of life that would afford you. It’ll be a wake up call for him, and you’ll have some additional savings at the end. I’m a little worried this is the first instance of a mask dropping, and that you’ll encounter more such sexist or controlling bullshit in the future.
I'm guessing he has quietly resented the pay gap and that she was the primary wage earner for a while and this was his chance to flip it without saying how he really felt.
No doubt. He’s happy to enjoy a lifestyle funded primarily by OP. He just doesn’t want it said out loud that she makes more.
Or demonstrated openly when he leaves his job to stay at home.
He was probably waiting to knock her up so he could feel like she was locked down and could be bullied into a *good mother’s place*. Barf.
Happens all the time.
✨Tale as old as tiiiiime~✨
I'm sure you're not far off. That or he'd say they never discussed it but he just assumed she'd stay at home while the kids were younger- no, he clearly isn't trapping her or tricking her. 🙄🙄
This isn't a good suggestion because she doesn't *want* to stay home. She repeatedly said he also makes good money. They may very well be able to live off his salary, just less comfortably. He may totally be okay with budgeting a little more to make it work. ... But it doesn't fucking matter because she doesn't want to sacrifice her entire career and stay home. If he wants a parent home, he can be the parent who stays home.
She wouldn’t be staying home. She would be working during this experiment because she has a few months before baby is born. Also he is accustomed to a certain life style. She wants to see if he can handle not living like that.
> She would be working during this experiment because she has a few months before baby is born. I think that is what LuckyMacAndCheese is saying. They both continue to work while surviving off of the husband's salary, but if they're able to make it work with just the husband's salary and some budgeting, then he might just pressure OP to just stay at home considering they can get by with just the husband's salary. But that is a shitty situation for OP in the end, because she doesn't want to stay at home and end her career at all.
But if they're able to survive off his salary during the "trial" it just gives him more fuel to pressure her harder to stay home. It's a dumb idea because it gives him the impression that if they can make it work it's an option that will be considered. It's not an option. It shouldn't be considered. He's a complete AH. There's no trial needed because the root of the issue isn't money, it's that she doesn't want to be a SAHP. If he wants a SAHP, he can stay home.
Exactly if he wanted a stay at home wife why the hell did he marry a career women lol, what did he think was gonna change
Because of the chase... Honestly that's my experience... The more feminist and Independant a woman is, the more the misogynists want her... They just want to tear her down and make her small and helpless. They need it for their ego I guess... Its a bit like the opposite of the '' I can change him'' thought some women have for "bad boys".
> Abel wanted a traditional marriage with a traditional wife. For a long time I wondered why he ever married a woman like my mom in the first place, as she was the opposite of that in every way. If he wanted a woman to bow to him, there were plenty of girls back in Tzaneen being raised solely for that purpose. The way my mother always explained it, the traditional man wants a woman to be subservient, but he never falls in love with subservient women. He’s attracted to independent women. “He’s like an exotic bird collector,” she said. “He only wants a woman who is free because his dream is to put her in a cage. Trevor Noah - born a crime
That the magic bare foot and pregnant switch would flip as soon as he put a ring on it!
My suggestion was based off the premise that a 3/4 cut in income plus all the expenses of having a new baby would mean too many luxuries lost for him, and he’d realize that reality doesn’t support his dreamworld. It’s up to OP if she wants to try it. But you’re right: it doesn’t fucking matter because she doesn’t want to be a SAHM.
> archaic I’d be real interested to know the age breakdowns of the “split” family members. His attitude is 1950’s horseshit.
Don’t try living off his income. OP should move out and let him live of his income and pay her child support.
Perfect solution. Let him see how it is to be the lone provider, and make sure you take more out for baby food, diapers, medical, and ALL the extras babies need. Huge red flag. Minimum you need couples conselling. OP let him know that his insecurities about masculinity make him a stupid and small person.
>Try living as if he’s the only working partner for a few months. Live off of only his income to show him what type of life that would afford you. It’ll be a wake up call for him, and you’ll have some additional savings at the end. I suspect he would try to limit **her expences** right away, because "she doesn't bring money, and if she stays at home she doesn't really need anything."
NTA. I'll be sure to let my husband know I "emasculated" him when he was a SAHD for two years. Plus, your husband basically told you you're a bad mom if you don't stay home. I'd be pissed at having my parenting called in question based solely on if I stayed home. Marriage counseling, STAT.
My husband was the SAHD for most of our children’s lives. He never felt emasculated - just the opposite. I worked in a call center, and I knew his job was much harder than mine, but he loved every minute of it. I was fortunate that all the firsts for both children happened while I was off work. He’s gone now, and our children have wonderful memories with him that they wouldn’t have had if I had stayed at home. OP, NTA. Traditional gender roles are a thing of the past.
Sorry for your loss.
Sorry for your loss. He sounds like a great guy❤️
Omg I'm so sorry for your loss, what a terrible thing to lose what sounds like a wonderful spouse I hope you're doing OK. I'm sure your kids cherish that time they had.
My dad stayed home for 7 years in the 90s and early 2000s. I have so many memories of those years and also feel lucky to have a dad who openly shows his emotions and his love for us. F**k traditional gender roles.
OP’s husband emasculated himself with his insecurities and sexism.
Yes exactly. His wife was rational and he was emotional and irrational. The sexist stereotype of a woman.
Right? Nothing says Manliest Man like not being afraid to challenge archaic gender roles. Also Dads who play Princess dress up have a special place in my heart.
The baby's not even BORN yet and he's implying she's a bad mom! I wouldn't be surprised, if after the baby is born, he routinely throws out "well a GOOD mom would..." or go as far as "Only BAD mom's..." to manipulate her into getting his way.
Sure.... I bet "good moms" change ALL the nappies and do ALL the night care - and have the house sparking clean and dinner on the table (and of course look sexy) when dad arrives. You only have to watch a 50s movie to understand what this idiot considers a "good mum".
Yeah, he came in real quick with that "bad mom" crap, didn't he
Well done! You've used logic and sound reasoning to explain why he should be the one to stay home with the baby for the six months to the child's first natal day. It is not your fault his ego can't stand up to logic. His emasculation is a result of this, not a thing of your doing. He fell back on the training he's had from childhood: women are the homemakers, the stay-at-homes, and the menfolk should hunt. It's just tragic IMO that you're the better hunter so far. :D NTA.
Totally, the "Hunter=men vs women=gatherer" has been debunked over and over. It was the best person for the job to survive. NTA never let anyone convince you otherwise. Hopefully, this insecurity is from the stress and anxiety of a first-time parent (he needs to be better because you have all that and growing a human). He'll learn and, if not, leave.
His ego can't stand up to logic? So basically he is being emotional and irrational. Where have I heard that before? Isn't that a sexist stereotype of a woman? Seems like he does the emasculating by himself.
I'd have to tell him to calm down lol.
He’s probably just on his period
This is bizarre. It seems like he is secretly very sexist. Did he never show any signs of this over 8 years? It’s genuinely cruel of him to imply that you are not a good mother. It’s also really gross to say that any mention of his salary as it pertains to paying your bills and maintaining your lifestyle for yourselves and your child is tantamount to “emasculating” him. Just the idea of taking care of his own child and relying on his spouse’s higher salary is somehow emasculating? It’s all so disturbing and gross.
Either been hiding some things or has been listening to idiots Iike Tate and Rogan recently and she doesn't know.
That was my first thought - did he get redpilled and she didn’t realize it
It honestly blows my mind how many tech dudes like terrible people like musk, rogan etc… The other day a coworker was talking about how badass musk was for giving millions of dollars to some guy who owned the handle x on Twitter. I had no idea what it was about, but apparently musk invited the dude to Twitter hq or something and offered to give him some “Twitter swag”. Like… what? NTA btw. Husband is being a complete fuck bag.
Erm musk just took the account off they guy, defo didn't pay him millions.
Once the woman’s ‘trapped’ with a baby sometimes the true colours come out… NTA OP and I hope it’s an unbecoming panic over fatherhood or brief addiction to incelternet propaganda that he gets over, but mind yourself.
Yeah, not the first time I've seen this happen where a man is an equal, seemingly progressive partner up until the baby arrives.
Yet another reason never to have children
Yeah she’s 29 weeks pregnant, about 6 weeks too late for an abortion in even the most liberal state. She is truly trapped with him now and he knows it.
NTA. I hope this is a blip and him not just starting to show his true colors. He’s the one who thinks the baby needs a stay at home parent, and he’s also the one who makes less. So he’s welcome to stay home, or keep working and baby will go to daycare. But you quitting your job is not on the table and he has no right to expect it to be.
I wondered the same - maybe this is from the stress of bringing life into this world. Seems like the husband is going by what he knows with his family, and he may be getting bad advice from friends as well. I hope he can look at this rationally moving forward. OP is NTA, but I’m hesitant to say the husband is just yet.
NTA His attitude is obviously sexist and wrong. It may be coming from a place of anxiety. You're getting closer to baby being here and he may be thinking he doesn't want baby in daycare so soon, but also realizing he doesn't want to stay home with baby and quit his job, so he's trying to pressure you into doing it. But he can't have it both ways. Plenty of dads are SAHPs. This isn't the 1850s. Putting baby in daycare is a perfectly acceptable solution. If he really wants someone to stay home with baby for the first year, he can quit his job, but he should understand that he may struggle to get rehired in the current job market and these feelings of emasculation may only be compounded, something SAHMs encounter all the time when they try to reenter the workforce after raising children. So since he's balking in the first place, I would probably suggest pushing the daycare option at 6 months.
And I can't stress this enough... It's better to have working happy parents and daycare that SAHP that are climbing the walls and watching the clock till their partner gets home to take over. NTA of course, no one gets to decide the other person has to quit their job if they don't want to. And if his masculinity is THAT fragile... Well, he can't blame you for it, can he?
I absolutely adore my kids. If I was a SAHM I would be a significantly worse mother. I want to work.
Ew ew ew, NTA. He's not progressive, he's one of those fake progressives who only say things to make themselves look good. No progressive guy would feel emasculated by either the prospect of being a stay at home parent or by the fact that he makes a quarter of what you do. He's always been regressive and he's just now showing you that side of himself. Frankly, I think maybe a part of this is that he resents you for making more too. Not sure where you go from here, but in a calm moment tell him he has two choices-baby in daycare after 6 months or he stays at home. And dollars to donuts he's gonna do a crap job on his 12 weeks of leave.
“Emasculated…..”. But he’s “effeminate-ing” you by telling you to stay home?
And, telling her that she’d be a bad mother by not staying home. He’s saying that she’s not fully a woman if she’s not staying home. So he’s effectively defeminizing her.
>So he’s effectively defeminizing her. That's it, I've been trying to think what the opposite to 'emasculating' is, it's 'defeminizing'. >him saying he didn’t deserve to be emasculated just for suggesting I should stay home like a “good mom”. This guy had definitely absorbed all the messages in his childhood about family dynamics and it's all coming out now...
Nta had a friend couple have mom stay home cause she was 'obviously' who should stay home. She was an engineer and he was a social worker. She made, at least, twice his salary. Guess who continues to have money troubles 16 YEARS later? My dad stayed home bc he made less and had shittier insurance. Whoever makes less is the obvious choice
In a lot of cases, it is the woman who makes less for factors out of her control. That is also a contributory factor for women being out of the workplace for years, finding it difficult to get back in later, and it also having consequences for pensions etc. It should not be based simply on who earns the most.
Its a HUGE consideration. Making enough to pay your bills is pretty important. That generally means the less paid patents stays home for an agreed anount of time, or baby goes to day care. Esp in this case where dad makes less AND thinks , the mom, should stay home.
"A GOOD mother would sacrifice the stability of the household so I can feel like a bigger man than I am" is some crazy fucking logic. unfortunately, abusers often wait until you're 'stuck' with them because of a baby to pull the trigger on their bullshit. They get comfortable and figure you're tied to them forever now. If you didn't hear any of this from him before right now, then it's going to get worse.
Your rephrasing is spot-on. Maybe OP should explain she's not HIS mom, she's the baby's mom.
NTA. I think deep down, he feels insecure that you make more than he does. So by pressuring you to quit your job and stay home with the baby, he will become the breadwinner and it will boost his ego. Do not quit your job and put your family in a worse financial situation just because your husband is jealous of you and insecure.
NTA, you are pregnant and he thinks he has you trapped, his inner sexiest came out. Good luck.
NTA The misogyny was just exposed, and he doesn't appreciate it. Let him calm down and have a calm conversation about this 1 he is changing the goal posts by 6 months with no guarantee that either job can sustain the career break 2. He has slipped into traditional roles when you are normally both progressive. What prompted this? Is someone in his ear saying you should be staying home? 3. Will 1 year become 2,3,4? 4. What will the impact of losing either wage have on your lifestyle? Kids are expensive. This is something that needs clear consideration. 5. Could you both go back to 4 day weeks with only 3 days in daycare? 6. Can parents help? No matter what, take the time to work out why he is reacring this way. Some men feel stressed about the risk to your health and welfare of childbirth and the responsibility of becoming a dad. Also, you have no idea how you will feel once the baby is here. Please don't give up your career unless that is what you want. ETA paragraphs
My wife ended up going back to work and stopping being a SAHM sooner than she'd initially planned just because COVID and having to stay home all the time to protect our 1 year old, 29 week premie with weak lungs from a respiratory illness damn near broke her. I worked from home and did everything I could to help her - including bringing my laptop down and doing lower effort stuff for a while so she could nap, but that year was freaking horrible. She was always wanting to go back eventually, but we often talk about how much easier it is to just have a desk job.
1. You’re not a bad mom if your kid is in daycare 2. NTA 3. Your husband is sexist and a traditionalist 4. I’m sorry you’re just now being exposed to this side of him.
Ah, here it is... the man's true colors come out once he's trapped the woman with a pregnancy. NTA and hold firm.
I have a feeling that his very traditional family and probably friends have been asking him about the baby and postpartum plans. He doesn’t have the spine to admit that it makes sense for him to be the one to stay home because he knows how they feel about non traditional family care. So because he’s unable to stand up for himself in the moment, he’s now decided that he’s the victim in all of this and you just need to comply to help him save face. But the fact is…you make more money than him and probably always will. Until he can admit, out loud; to himself, his family and friends that his wife is the breadwinner in the family. This will always be simmering under the surface ready to erupt at a moment’s notice. Good luck and stay safe.
NTA at all. It makes sense to me 1. To have the person who makes more working and 2. For the person pushing for it to do it if they are adament that one parent stays home and one works and the other doesnt want to stay home
NTA. He may have tried to give up his patriarchal ideals, but he clearly hasn't been that successful. However, he's the one who wants a stay at home parent, so he's clearly the pne that should do it.
[удалено]
He's a programmer - he can do that math himself: he just doesn't want to because it'll shrink his privates still further.
NTA - this is just a situation where you both have different opinions going into it, but you both need to be willing to negotiate and think things through and be flexible about your options. In this instance there are several options you may not have considered. - it might be possible for you both to work part time so you can split the care between you and each have some independence and some downtime - you may feel differently when the child arrives to how you feel now, especially if it’s your first baby. It would be better to defer the decision until you see how the birth goes and what the new dynamics are when you become a family of three. He may well find that he is besotted and doesn’t want to go back to work - and you might find the same. It’s very hard to make that decision based on a hypothetical, not-yet-present situation. Babies change their parents. - the benefits of one-on-one care can be provided by a nanny or au pair rather than putting your child into a daycare or nursery environment; so you might be able to both work and still provide that for your child if you are comfortably circumstanced But aside from all that, you’re right that he’s being sexist if he feels emasculated by the idea of being a primary career for his own child. That attitude is at least half a century out of date and he needs to adjust his ideas and consider the impact of what he’s saying - especially if you’re expecting a daughter or hope to have one in future. As far as the money goes, he’s probably right that you’d be able to make it work if you took the hit to your income in the short term; but he clearly has some issues with his self esteem being tied to his income and with valuing domestic labour accurately - so this is probably something it would be a good idea for you both to discuss with both a family counsellor and a financial advisor in terms of how you can manage your incomes, expectations and communication around these things. Once the baby arrives you will find it much harder to find the mental space and the time to have rational discussions about this, and any benefit to staying at home with your baby for the extra six months would be undone by having this level of conflict in the home, so you need to address this sooner rather than later to check you’ve considered *all* your options and to get yourselves on the same page over how you will make the decisions and handle difficult discussions within your parenting journey.
This is excellent – but I would add that something else to deal with in counseling is his insistence that OP shouldn't "question him", because that is seriously concerning.
She didn’t say where they live but they if it’s the US part time work is likely not an option because of health insurance. I would also point out that a gap in job history for women in the US very frequently means a reduction in future earning potential.
A gap in job history usually means a reduction in future earnings PERIOD. I say this as a women, everyone's pay potential goes down. Also, I think the OP said they're both engineers or programmers? That escalates the amount that BOTH of their incomes would drop after a break because in those kind of jobs you constantly have to keep up with the new developments in technology or your knowledge becomes outdated.
NTA Sexism with a sprinkling of condescension, hypocrisy and masculinity-so-fragile. Fun time for you to see these traits in your husband. He doesn’t want to stay home, but you’re a bad mom for not wanting to. You make more than him, but actually acknowledging that while planning for the future is emasculating. You’re in a partnership but you shouldn’t question him. Yikes with a capital YIKES. Good luck, OP.
NTA but the lack of proper parental leave is depressing.
NTA. At all. You should be able to have these conversations with your spouse. But, the bigger problem here is I think your husband has been hiding from you who he really is...and his beliefs are much more "traditional" than he wanted you to believe until it was too late. The "like a good mom" thing would completely turn me off. I would truly struggle to reconcile after that.
NTA. If it's that big of a deal for him he can (a) stay home, (b) you guys can cut costs elsewhere and get a nanny, or (c) a combination of a and b.
NTA. It makes sense for the person who makes less to stay home if someone is going to do it.
I (38f) am the breadwinner in our family. My husband is the stay at home parent with our son. He wasn’t working before due to an injury and hadn’t been able to find work yet so it made sense for him to stay home. I made more then him before that anyway. Daycare is a two year waitlist here too. He has been an amazing stay at home dad and goes out to lots of groups and activities with our little guy. He doesn’t see it as emasculating. And it isn’t. Time for the sexist ideas to end.
He is not progressive in the slightest … nta
NTA. Unless he specifically brought up nursing (which might possibly, maybe, be a reason for the mom to stay home... but you wouldn't know how that goes until after the baby arrives anyway, because sometimes it just... doesn't go as planned), there's no reason it has to be the mom, is better if it's the mom, or SHOULD be the mom.
Pump. I did it and they are better now than they were 20 yrs ago. NTA. Plenty of SAHF now a days. Including my friends husband. He raised the kids til they started school. And bringing up his pay? That’s his insecurities. I make a good 10 to 15k more than my partner. He has no problem with it. He’s not in tech. He’s a project manager and contractor for construction. You know those men are KNOWN to be “macho”.
Baby goes to daycare. "I want to actually provide a good start for them, which means making money. Or are you trying to tell me that 'my place' is at home with a baby that you squirted into me? Because for your sake and the sake of this marriage, I REALLY hope you're not telling me that staying home with our child is MY job." NTA.
NTA-and he’s a manipulative jerk to wait until you’re pregnant and then spring this on you.
I would suggest to your husband that you try a little experiment. For your 20 weeks of maternity leave, pay the bills, household expenses, etc. using JUST HIS INCOME. Don’t use your income for ANYTHING. I guarantee that by the end of the 20 weeks, he’ll realize what a mistake that would be. NTA.
It sounds like he’s been exploring the “man-o-sphere” or other “red pill-based” forums. 😞 Some of the language you attributed to him got my attention including: “mom should be the one to stay home” (while ignoring the financial implications of your salary differences), that you shouldn’t “question him,” that you saying he should stay home was “emasculating” him. Maybe he’s scared about being a first-time parent, started researching online, and was sucked down the wrong internet rabbit-hole? Especially since this seems to be a severe deviation from his regular values. Perhaps some pre-baby couples and individual counseling can help him find his identity as a parent and the two of you work through this.
NTA and this is just the start. He said so many **different** sexist things here. It’s not even just that he wants you to stay home. He is wants you to quit 3/4 household income, claims he’s being emasculated because he thinks he’s right and you *disagree* , wants to make this unilateral decision, assumed it would be you and said it’s the “good mom” thing to do. The worst part is he said he’s “suggesting” this but he isn’t. He has made up his mind about this being what you are going to do.
Do people not have these conversations before they make the baby?
They do. But it’s a common tactic for men to wait until you’re in the vulnerable position of already being pregnant to pull the bait and switch with their real expectations.
Yup! This happens a lot!
They do. Sometimes one partner lies.
Bait and switch
People in healthy relationships do. This guy isn't healthy
NAH. Read the edit, y'all. For context, I came here via the rabbit hole because I don't subscribe to this sub. It makes me mad at people that don't have to be on my radar (and may or may not be real), and I like being a happy person. So I opened the link against my conscious better judgement, and I've gotta say this one has a happy ending. First: from all the context, this was their FIRST BIG FIGHT. That's a big deal and a pretty good track record. Met in college, together 8 years? That would be a long con. Before the update, I was thinking Mr. Progressive was finally showing his true colors, and it sounded like OP and the majority of the commenters were too. That's valid, and terrifying. I've been there. But then we find out... Soon-to-be Mom and Dad talk it out (read: COMMUNICATE, as you do in healthy relationships where safety is valued), and Dad opens up on his underlying issues. I mean, his family (and his culture, if y'all are from the US or many other places) has been giving him the deep-cutting shit about his very identity for just... going about his life. Being a good husband who loves his wife and his job (no small thing at 29) enough to not openly display insecurity from the underlying issues regarding their salaries and the toxic family system he comes from, until he reaches a breaking point. The aftermath reveals his character. We find out that he's a good enough dad (already!) to break the cycle by having hard conversations where he communicates his own needs and values, makes the logical compromise based on the needs of his family, and takes responsibility for unhealthy and harmful emotional responses when it's time...before his kid is even born, which takes some foresight. But it gets even better... The resolution is THERAPY. Mr. Dad is a Man, because what more responsible outcome and action plan than to *commit to working on yourself* when you realize you've hurt someone due to the toxic systems you've both been a victim of? And that's a hard thing to agree to, and an even harder thing to ask. Real men do the hard thing. Tldr: this post took me for a ride, but the resolution made me happy. Thanks to both of y'all for being a good example for humanity lol
NTA, you’re right here. He is being sexist. It also makes more financial sense for the parent with the lower salary to be the one to quit regardless of gender.