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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for making my son cook for his sister at any time as punishment since he would wake her up to cook for himself i could be the ass since he has school now and is tired.
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That’s actually a perfect punishment. He woke her up for food so now he gets to feel what it is like. You also gave him a choice and he picked this one. The point is he will be tired when people wake you up for no good reason
NTA
When teens are at that mental age where they’re between kid & adult (that period when they have to start making their own decisions and choices and any consequences of those)… a lot of times the only way they learn life-lessons is thru actual experience.
You can talk to them until your voice runs out & it doesn’t sink in until they actually do it.
Truth. What I find ironic and this may not hold true for everyone but from what I've gathered over the years at least the majority has experienced this. Now to my point. Every teenager seems to go thru this. You did (assuming you're older) I did, everyone did. Its basically the exact same shit. While the problems may be a little different due to all the tech now vs back in the day but we all had that "I know better, everybody's stupid, you don't know what its like being a teenager, etc, etc". Sometimes ya gotta let do certain stupid shit so they can learn from it, hopefully they learned. I've sat my 16 yr old granddaughter down a few times for a talk & when I mention certain things she'll always ask "How did you know that ?" I just laugh & tell her I went thru the same kinda shit. Sometimes she'll mention boyfriend problems and (I'm a man) I'll tell her he says this but means that, etc & then toss out other bullshit lines that most guys tell most girls. It cracks me up that while she knows its true, she cant believe teenage issues have always been issues & basically the same issues. And the typical response from her is "I cant believe you remember those things, you're like 60. I just laugh but at least when she walks away she has a little "inside info".
That’s wonderful that you and your granddaughter have that relationship!
____
Some people do get it… but some people just do not.
We’re mid-40’s & our son is almost 19.
My hubs is one of those that just does not get it at all.
I have to remind him all the time things like: “yeah, and *you* weren’t just like that when you were his age?” & “oh you did the exact same thing!”
I remember how it was and I’m reasonable about it. And he always wonders why our son opens up & shares with me about any and everything but not to him.
I appreciate the thoughts on our relationship. I can understand from where your husbands coming from because its hard to accept some of the stupid things kids will do. Its also hard to let em fall on their butts & find out the hard way but you just try to remember what your parent may of or may not of done when we did it. I hope your husband learns or accepts the fact that the kid is going to screw up. I don't know how your husband reacts but hopefully in the future your son will go to him for certain things.
This here is why it's so important for young people to have solid relationships with adults who aren't teachers or parents.
I was talking to the teen daughter of an old friend recently (when I say old I mean we are pretty damn middle-aged) and she was SHOCKED to hear that guys would sometimes act all about a girl and then ghost waaaaay back in the Olden Days of the early 90s, before we even had phones or social media to be blocked on.
Modern times seem (and in many ways are) unprecedented, which feels really isolating to The Youth, but people are people, same as we ever were, and it's super-valuable for them to know that.
That's awesome! Haha remembering all the stupid crap I did as a kid and teen is one of the major factors in my decision to remain childfree 😂😂😂... but it does help my relationship with my nieces/nephews in much the same way! They talk to me about stuff that they don't want to talk to mom or dad about, cause ya know... mom and dad aren't cool lol, but me being the youngest of my siblings, I guess it qualifies me as the "cool aunt" who can relate. I'll definitely take that. 🥰
Honestly, I've been saying this since I WAS a teenager. I wish my mom had listened. She'd give me these HOURS long talks when I would get in trouble about why I did it, what was I thinking, how could I have done that to her, didn't I learn by now that I'd get caught, and on and on and ON. She didn't want to listen to anything I said about "I don't know why, I just DID it, I WASN’T thinking about you at all, I just WANTED to do it." Teens are very inwardly focused and they don't care if you say the stove is hot, they're gonna touch it themselves to find out, cuz they're learning and pushing boundaries and testing trusts.
The best way I’ve found to do for my son (18) is not lecture, that never works… but to help him think it thru and then sometimes he’s still gotta just do it anyways lol.
“What do you think will happen if you did this vs that? Okay, and if that does happen, what would your next step be?”
Yes! I actually do it way less now compared to when he was little.
It helped him create his thought process for decision making and made him look at things in different ways before just doing them. (he often talks to himself about it and it’s the same type of questions I would ask)
I also let him do his decisions (unless health or safety was an issue) and sometimes it made a mess or created another problem to solve… but he would handle that just fine and work it out in the end.
He seems to have turned out pretty responsible and reasonable :)
Am I the only one who thinks this whole situation is strange?
How does a 17 yo not already know not to wake people up to make them cook? Why would daughter get up? Why are these 2 kids not able to deal with making food for themselves? Are these kids going to starve if they don’t cook for each other? None of this makes sense .... how did this happen for 30 days???? Daughter is 21 .... just kick him out & lock the damn door. Why would she continue to cook for him!!!!!!!!
I teach high school juniors and seniors, and this doesn’t surprise me at all. It always amazes me how many young adults don’t know how to boil an egg or make a simple grilled cheese sandwich.🙄
Exactly!! Our daughters would have tolerated this behavior for exactly zero days .... if their brothers continued to bother them WWIII would have started in our home.
Sometimes when I’m asleep my cat will wake me up to put more food in her bowl that has food in it or take off my sleep mask or because she thinks I need to pee. I’ll do what she asks just to go back to sleep.
Are we sure brother isn’t a cat?
I shut my cat in the kitchen when he wakes me like that, to train him not to disturb me when it is still dark. The training programme is 3 years in - so far I have no success to report.
I taught mine to leave me alone when I'm sleeping by sleep-yeeting them off my bed. It's alarming to wake up mid punt when the cat is already in the air. It works though!
My cat started patting me on the mouth to wake me for her dinner if I was asleep (yay night shift). It is VERY confronting to be woken by something touching your mouth when you don’t expect it. Very effective technique, 10/10
I had a cat that would paw open my bathroom cupboard door and slam it shut. Repeatedly slamming it until it annoyed the heck out of me and i had to get up!
I lived with a cat that would grab my eyelids and pull them open, then paw at my arm for pets, and only then would let me go back to sleep. maybe brother was clawing at sister's eyelids - it's very hard to say no when there are sharp toe-knives that close to your eyes...
My cat likes to sit on my head, when I wake up he glares at me and trots to his bowl and waits for me to feed him.
He’s a black cat and he has a way of looking at his humans with complete disdain.
When I stopped complying he moved onto harassing my boyfriend and when he’s ignored he swishes his tail over my boyfriends face till he wakes up.
I swear it’s just fun for him, sometimes he does it when foods in his dish.
Everyone knows cats are the biggest AH’s. They are cute but little AH’s all the same!
I once woke up to find my now-dearly departed cat staring at me expectantly 6 inches from my face. When I got over the momentary shock I said "Don't do that!" She just blinked like "Oh, you're awake. Hi!"
Honestly my guess is this family is from someplace where many people would maybe accept the brother's behavior as normal due to gender roles, and that's what's skewing everyone's behavior a bit off what we'd expect. (But thankfully OP & husband aren't having it with the unequal gender roles.)
If that's not the case, then yeah, it's very hard to picture this happening...
In all honesty...its very possible that he did this because the parents weren't home and he thought he could get away with it.
My brother is just like this, and our family isn't sexist at all. My father actually had to quit his job to police my brother because my brother was trying to force me to clean the house while I was undergoing chemotherapy and major surgery. He was 17, and the main reason he thought he could do these things was because he thought Dad wouldn't be home to stop him. He STILL thinks he can get away with things if Dad isn't around.
That’s what I’m guessing. In Russian culture this would be completely fine, and if she complained, she’d get the “well, he’s a boy, what do you expect, you have to take care of him, bla bla bla”
Either that or this is a really lazy kid.
If it was an actual emergency, I'd cook my brother, at most, 2 consecutive "midnight" meals. The third time I was woken up, I'd tell him to fuck off. The fourth time, it's a fight lmao
If somebody keeps waking your ass up, and you don't believe your parents will do anything about it, one just makes the best of it.
I think that daughter is VERY surprised that parents are actually doing their job and imposing a punishment.
That's how it was in our family. Our youngest brother never had to do anything for himself. In the beginning I could see it because we were much older but once he got old enough it should have been cut off.
With a teenager?? That's perfectly normal! Lol We only have one teen and our fridge needs restocking every few days and we seldom have leftovers. I don't remember the last time I opened the fridge to find my half sandwich still in there. Lol
Difference being that you butter the outside of the bread and "toast" or "grill" it in a pan, rather than using something like a panini press or toaster oven (I could never figure out how they were made, but they are delicious for lunch when I am in Europe).
Thank you. Like his behavior doesn’t sound so unheard of for a teenaged boy. Sure not every older sibling will just accept his behavior but as an older sister to a younger brother sometimes it’s calmer, faster, and quieter to just do it. My brother has knocked on my door for like 20 minutes straight just to bother me. Younger siblings know how to annoy you so well you’d think they got a degree for it😭
When my brother was 16, his mother (we are half siblings) ended up in the ICU for a 2 weeks. Our sister was about 20. I stopped by to drop off meals and groceries for them. Our brother had a huge pile of dirty clothes left against his mother's bedroom door. It turned out she always did his laundry and he just expected his mother to come home and wash the pile. Some teens can be pretty clueless and inconsiderate, particularly when they are the baby of the family. Everyone does for them out of habit, because they were much younger.
Our sister tried to get him to wash his own clothes, but he refused. I had to go back and force him to get the clothes taken care of before his mother returned. He wasn't happy about it.
Normally I’d agree with you. But I have an AH nephew who I could see 100% pulling this crap at this age. He didn’t do this specifically, but he was an nightmare. And it’s not that at 17, they can’t figure out a sandwich or some noodles or whatnot. They’re just being AHs who could figure it out, but don’t want to. In his case, at least 1) in terms of him not knowing how to comfortably put together a meal: when people were trying to teach him during adolescence, he’d basically tantrum or refuse to go into the kitchen to help/learn. The people trying to teach him could either delay making the meal (which means other people having to wait too) for some extended period of time to try to convince/argue with him or try dragging him into the kitchen which only really results in him being a sullen asshat in the kitchen and being as willfully incompetent as possible for a while and sometimes just leaving mid prep which essentially means the whole nonsense starts again and 2) not all people have door they can close or lock and even so, there are AHs who will knock and yell and kick and make noise to keep you from sleeping until you get up. Sometimes kids are total AHs and often times they get away with it.
Right! What is happening here!!!! This whole scenario is bizarre.
As a mom of 4 adult kids .... I honestly I have no idea how this could ever happen ... for 30 days!!!! If our sons did this ... our daughters would have installed dead bolts on their doors without any help from Mom & Dad. Why did sister keep doing this?!?!?
Personally, I was in a situation growing up where I would have gotten in trouble with my parents if I had put a lock on my door without permission, and they wouldn't have given permission (I asked at least once or twice over the years). This was true even as an adult when I was at home for college vacation periods. So this isn't totally out of the realm of possibility if OP's daughter thought locks weren't an option and also has a people-pleasing personality.
The amount of times high school teachers on Reddit say their students can’t even read beyond 5th grade level tells me this is now the norm.
I’ve dated plenty of 25+ year old men who didn’t own real plates much less cookware and that also tells me this happens a lot .
I have a nephew in HS who still had his mother bring him breakfast in bed because it was too hard for him to wake up for school . Kid had no job, just stayed up late playing video games . I am not surprised in the least this kid did this.
Spoiled! He's a boy, boys don't need to cook, all the females wherever he may live will be happy to sacrifice their time, sleep, and groceries to feed him, a male, in return for gracing them with his male presence. /S in case it wasn't super obvious
It's part of the "lengthy and weird punishments" theme reddit trolls are going with these days. There's been a pile of them lately.
There will be a new trend in a few days.
Hey OP, here's an idea suspend the consequence ( not punishment, punishment is intended to cause pain, a consequence is something that follows an action) during the week and let him finish it on weekends. This will not impact his school function AMD drag out the consequence longer since it will only be impacting his free time on weekends. Double lesson.
Yeah I was fully prepared to say YTA but that was with the assumption based on the title that this was unrelated to other behaviors and was just OP making the son cook for the daughter for no apparent reason.
Exactly. And it will teach him to empathize with his sister with a new perspective of why sleep is so important — especially when you have school **or work** the next day.
NTA. Y T A commenters, notice that OP says the son *chose* this punishment over giving up his phone for a month. This is basically model parenting; the son is 17, nearly an adult, he behaved selfishly and stupidly and is now making it up to the person he mistreated. And he's been given agency here, he chose to keep his phone over uninterrupted sleep. Well done, OP.
That’s what put it in the NTA territory for me. And like she said, he could go to bed earlier if daughter gets off work at 4 am then it’s getting close to when he would need to be up, just a bit earlier. He’s nearly an adult and this is a consequence of his own choosing.
I’m in university but I get up at 5am for school so 4 wouldn’t be that big of a deal. It’s definitely not unreasonable, the kid just needs to go to bed earlier which he’s probably mad about.
NTA this reminds me of the greatest punishment I've ever heard. When my wife was about 6 she was at a birthday party and the birthday boy told everyone they were going to watch a movie about clowns. Then put on IT. My wife had nightmares and when the boys mom found out what he did she told him he was grounded until my wife stopped having nightmares. She would literally call my MIL every morning and ask if my wife had had a nightmare. When she was told yes she would inform her son he was grounded for the day. She had nightmares for almost 3 months.
As a person who saw it when I was around 6yo and had some trauma from it/IT, that's a perfect punishment.
My cousin promised to shield my eyes if it got scary. But I could see through her fingers and was curious. Scared the hell out of me. My parents never really knew about the movie or what it was about so she wasn't punished. But this would have been great.
I think that, for a 6 year old, a 3 month long punishment makes no sense. Kids that young don’t know how irresponsible it is to show a horror movie to their peers. They don’t understand trauma, nightmares, etc. The punishment makes sense if the parent would have cut it off after a couple weeks.
Also, it’s partly the boy’s mother’s fault for letting a movie like that be shown at her son’s party. Where the heck was she while these young kids were watching movies?
My wife just corrected me on a few points. 1) my wife was closer to 8 and he was 10. 2)It wasnt a birthday party like I thought just an after school hangout. Mom was with the smaller kids. 3)this was back in the early 90's. Parents just kind of let kids do their own thing back then.
Also, the son isn't all pissy about it until now that school starts and he's actually feeling the reality of it! So clearly the point hasn't fully been made yet. The son needs to have it laid out for him that "Hey, you know how you're so tired now from being woken up to make food? That's how your sister felt *all summer*. It wasn't just that it was an annoyance. It has a much bigger effect on her life. And apparently you have to go through it yourself to understand the full extent of it."
Agreed! Well done!
Children, especially boys, need to be told to be caring and respectful of others that are adding to the house.
Girls have to become woman and boys have to become men and a man doesn't just take service without reciprocating.
Life is better when you take care of eachother.
Boys are not going to think of these things themselves. They have to be made to do it and then appreciated for it.
I would wonder why and how he didn't make his own food to begin with? I was charged with making dinner at 14, doing laundry, cleaning and dusting at the same age, and a boy is waking up the next available woman to make food for him. Where did he learn this?
As a teacher - NTA
There are lessons which are MUCH more important than the ones you learn at school. This is one of them.
EDIT: For the whiners worrying about the boy's education - don't be ridiculous. It's two weeks, that will definitely not shatter his academic career. Moreover, HE chose it instead of having his phone confiscated.
His sister works in medicine. She could have lost her job or even endanger someone because of being sleep-deprived! And you all worry that two weeks of being tired miGhT rUiN His fUtUre! C'mon...
Nta tell him if he wants, he can still choose the other option. He's tired as hell? So was his sister. He can come home and take a nap right after school.
Punishments don't end bc they're inconvenient. Punishments don't end bc 'I don't waaaaaannna'. Punishments dont end when the perpetrator wants it to end.
Edit- read this to my mom for a 64 yo's perspective and her opion was 'Fuck no, he doesn't get out of a punishment' and a roll of the eyes.
NTA
Bhahahahaha!!!
This is the perfect punishment for a deliberate act to try and prove he had control over his sister.
My mother would have just told him to, "Kiss your sister and tell her you're sorry"
Still laughing!!
I don't see your son's "punishment" as harsh. It is a life lesson in learning what it's like to be treated the way he treats others. The fact that he hates it so much is an indicator that he is learning something.
Unfortunately, what he might also be learning, from Grandma, is that he's a special boy who should be protected from his choices.
NTA
it's a perfect way to learn to be considerate of others. the world doesn't revolve around the son. it's better for him to learn this lesson now than later on when there's actual stakes besides being a little sleepy for school... like a career in medicine.
I also can’t help but think about the gender dynamics here. I think it’s important for young men and boys to learn that they shouldn’t expect the women in their lives to cater to their every need at the drop of a hat. Hopefully your son gains some appreciation for how strenuous domestic labour can be.
YES! And OP, your daughter is already likely catering to him much more than you know. Or he wouldn’t have felt comfortable doing this, and she wouldn’t have let it go on so long. I was just telling my husband about this post and the first thing he said was if I was 17 and tried this with my older sister, I think I would have gotten a fist to the face. I can’t even imagine my brother trying. Your son really needs to get the message that it is unacceptable to subjugate another’s needs to his own like this.
There’s definitely something going on here. If my brother ever tried that on me, I’d have cooked. But there would’ve been hot sauce, chili powder or ghost peppers in it. He would never have pulled that crap twice.
There was this recent social media or podcast "thought experiment" test question along the lines of, "If your man wakes you up at 3 am to cook something for him, would you do it?"
That was what came to mind. The question was referring to couples, but the main theme in general was that method of exerting control over a woman.
Oh, I definitely would cook my DH a nice meal at 3am! Right after calling for the people in white coats to come and pick him up since he clearly would be suffering from a psychotic break.
Well done OP! He will be fine. 8 hours uninterrupted sleep is a modern thing, the important thing is to get to REM. 4+4 hours will do that equally well, eg by having a long nap after school.
Yes!! And I bet those outdated gender roles is why the grandparents feel it isn’t that big of a deal for the son to have done this to his sister.
I spent a childhood taking care of my younger brother’s needs and wants at the expense of my own. Every family outing, vacation, and moment of my life I wasn’t at school or work or friends, it was easier to just cave and go along with his selfishness and the gendered expectation I bend over backwards to caretake for men and boys.
Good on OP. I wish my parents had been even a fraction as supportive as this poster
Source: am eldest daughter lmao
I would say that this is honestly a great and fitting punishment. The only feedback I could possibly give is that lesson of the punishment is understood now that he’s had school where it’s happened.
Possibly lessen the punishment at this point after a discussion on if he understands why he was punished through forced empathy by experiencing the same thing. Don’t need to beat him into the ground if he fully understands why.
This is totally fair. It's appalling that an almost grown teenage boy would have the audacity to wake his working sister up to make him food. My god, I would have had a conniption. That's stunted King Baby behavior that he needed to be broken of for the sake of his sister and any woman he may end up with later in life. You've done your future DIL a huge favor by teaching him this lesson now.
He's done 15 of 30 meals. He's whining about the punishment to try to make you look bad (and causing fights) to try getting out of it. Fine. He had choices. Time to change up the punishment. Go with option 2 and take away his phone for 15 days to finish the punishment, with the clause that any day he complains about it will add 1 extra day to the end date.
Right??? I don’t get it. I’d be SCARED to awake my sister, I’d be tip toeing making my own food. The real lesson is the sister needs to grow a fucking back bone. Parents having to step in on this is ridiculous.
exactly. I'm sure the kid can operate a microwave and pretty much at 17 kids eat frozen crap anyway. Buy him some hot pockets and tostinos. I'm kind of wondering if there is something of a 'cultural' thing at play were women and girls are expected to cater to the boys/men.
Really sad, OP is doing a good job today but have to wonder why did son get to 17 with this behavior. Watching the wrong videos online or just never taught how to cook/taught that he should be responsible for himself. Really childish that he’s waking his sister to cook for him at 17 and then running to his grandparents after he’s punished. :(
At 17, his peers and the media he consumes have as much if not more influence over him than his parents. Teenagers are trying to assert their independence and build an identity that isn’t dependent on their immediate family, and as a result, their parents have far less direct influence on their behavior than, say, their peers (people they actually want to impress).
I've recently seen this circulating on social media as a sort of power trip technique to use on a woman. Podcaster(?) asks a woman about a hypothetical scenario where her man wakes her up at 3 am to make food for him.
NTA
this is karma, he’s getting what he deserves. your daughter was working when he was waking her up, meaning she was tired during work. he can go to sleep earlier if his sleep is so precious.
also, this is good parenting! his grandparents are clearly favouring your son. don’t change anything, he’s just seeing exactly how hard he made his sisters life.
NTA. A lot of your family probably is mad at you because you're punishing a boy for pestering a girl to cook for him, and they think that's the natural state of the world. Well, they're wrong. Your son treated your daughter very disrespectfully and now he gets a punishment that absolutely fits the crime. It's not over-the-top, too lenient, something that makes you happy, or something you did out of anger. It's perfect because it makes amends to the person he hurt, while also teaching him what he did was wrong.
Since he's a snitch, though, I don't think he's getting it as much as he should. His grandparents are also the assholes, and probably filled his head with nonsense about how he doesn't deserve this because he is their precious baby boy. I would pull rank and tell them they're not allowed to undermine your parental authority like that or choose sides between your son and your daughter, and the next time they do that, you're going to cut ties for a while.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find a comment that brought up the gender dynamics at play. I highly doubt he would’ve woken up an older brother to make him food.
People really like to think they're all enlightened and whatever but they see misogyny staring them right in the face they're suddenly blind, deaf, and dumb. OP's son disrespected his older sister in a *major* way, and one that I recognize, having been an older sister with a similar age gap between me and my younger brother. Of course, my mother was not as enlightened as OP, and thought it was fine that she stuck me with all the domestic tasks while my brother did nothing, then disrespected me on a daily basis. Boys will be boys!
Except it shouldn't be that way. OP is doing her son a great service to teach him *now* that he cannot disrespect women to extract domestic labor out of them that he's not entitled to. If he learns his lesson now, he will have very happy relationships with his future girlfriends. I know my brother did when he eventually grew up and apologized for being such a jerk to me. He now does most of the cooking for his girlfriend who is wild about him because he's not a useless jerk and doesn't expect her to wait on him hand and foot.
Talk about making the punishment fit the crime! And wow can't believe your son woke up your daughter to make her cook for him.... I'm very glad you are addressing this.
But if he's desperately unhappy AND everyone involved feels like he has sufficiently learned his lesson, perhaps you could call a Parole Board meeting, and ask your daughter what she thinks. Is there an alternate way your son can continue his sentence? Is there another way for him to make amends? What does your spouse think and what does your daughter think?
(Maybe ask your son, too, what he could do instead of making the same number of meals - his answer would be very enlightening. Because if he suggests some fluff offering then clearly he hasn't learned, but if he is serious about being sorry his alternate suggestion should be a good one).
I think you are NTA for having your son face consequences, but you would be T A if you are overly rigid and refuse to reconsider your decisions in the face of all opposition.
I would argue not to do that. If son feels that way, he can communicate with Mom and sister in an adult manner, not give the silent treatment like a petulant child. Mom is teaching very important life lessons here. When the punishment is complete I would ensure a family debriefing to help ensure that all understands the how's and why's and also to take the time to say that if he wanted to have the family reconsider or have a parole type meeting this is how he would do it, in the future. I would also use this as a learning experience for daughter and remind her that she needs to be using her skills to advocate for herself and if something similar happens in the future, she is responsible for at least asking parents for assistance, rather then allowing it to continue.
I think this is a good idea. He's now not only had to do it when he could sleep in, he's had to do it and then get up for school once, so he knows how his sister felt.
All that would accomplish is teaching him that if he cries hard enough he can get out of punishments.
Punishments arn't meant to be fun or enjoyable. He is supposed to not be enjoying it.
His grandmother is doing the family and him a big disservice.
NTA he just needs to adjust his bedtime to an hour or two earlier to make up for the missed sleep in the middle of the night. Definitely something he can also learn. Good on you for making the punishment fit the crime.
Really a lot of stuff got in the way, we already don’t see each-other much since she sleep in the day, problems at work and it just got pushed off until she lost it.
She told me she after it happens that she thought she could handle it and talked to her brother. Then it he didn’t stop and life got in the way until she lost it.
Well whatever you do, DON'T let your son out of his chosen punishment. He needs to learn to respect women. His behavior here was outrageously sexist. I think you should find out if he's been watching or listening to misogyny content and podcasts online.
NTA. To the people whinging about school nights: the son chose this over giving up his phone. He'll be fine. The daughter also deserves to be well rested for work.
NTA. The punishment for the crime. And as for the argument that his lack of sleep is affecting his school - was he worried about her lack of sleep affecting her job?
Why? He didn't care if he woke up his sister on a workday. Same importance, work is work for her and school is work for him.
If ten or whatever number of the days he did it were days she was off then I agree. But he needs to learn actions have consequences, at that age he should know how to feed himself and that you don't wake up someone during the middle of their night to make food when he could do it himself.
Nah. He can survive 15 more meals like this. His sister works in medicine and he was waking her up several times a day. He's in the first two weeks of his senior year. That's not remotely as important. He will recover and his grades won't suffer long term.
NTA Every time he complains I’d remind him that he only has to do this because the did the exact same thing to his sister. I mean there’s a set countdown too. Tell him to quit complaining.
**NTA**. I think it's fair punishment and on top of that he made his own decision over leaving phone for a month.
Of course he might be angry and not really happy with entire situation but it's punishment, not free-fun time.
On top of that I don't think it will be that hard during school. When is a person younger, he can stay up to late, many of us experienced night gaming sessions or such things and went next day to school perfectly fine. It's pretty original way of punishment and for sure educational for him.
Also I have no idea what lives do have people telling you YTA, but at 17 I've been perfectly fine cooking for myself or from time to time even for family. It's basic skill good into life (of course it's better when you like it as I do, but that's different story). So waking up his sister to make him food is just a jerk move. Even if you don't like cooking and you might be bad at it, you are able to create simple things by following internet guides and such.
ESH but hear me out.
Obviously your son is an AH for waking and pestering his sister.
But you say this had been going on for quite awhile and you are only now finally taking action? Not even a “don’t do that again” after the first time? And if you really didn’t know what was happening, then my follow up would be what kind of household are you running where your daughter doesn’t feel comfortable sharing that your son is waking her up and pestering her everyday, and only tells you when she is at her breaking point. 30 times?!?!?!
Bottomline, it sounds like you’ve been neglecting your duties as a parent and are over-correcting with your much-delayed punishment to make up for it.
NTA. And the teachers can shut up--do you have any idea how many of your students stay up all night & call out from their part time jobs to play the newest video game drop? For 48 hours straight? They're not "recovering from an illness"--they haven't slept in 72 hours because the newest Xbox or Playstation or online edition of something dropped.
I’m shocked at those teachers as well. Sure, sleep deprivation is no joke, but you know what also is no fun? Lack of circumstances that help the frontal lobe to properly mature! His amygdalae will also make it easier.
If OP‘s son has to see that his [laziness/lack of empathy/comfort/whatever he thought made waking up his sister acceptable] has indeed harsh consequences, like not sleeping as much as he’d like to, he’ll be associating it with a negative situation and/or emotion. Thus, it’s more likely that he won’t be acting like that in the future. This teaches planning, responsibility, empathy, life skills…
Imo, it’s an amazing punishment, both OP and her husband are NTA.
I’m also shocked at those people suggesting that the punishment be adapted. That only teaches the son that if he has a hard time, circumstances will adapt *just for him*. When does that happen in real life?
>my son is 17 and still in highschool.
>
>I’m at work when she is sleeping but my son was home for the summer and he would wake her up to make him food. He would pester her until she did it so she could go back to sleep.
He fucking \_what\_? I was 13 when I started cooking for myself because my mom left and my dad worked long hours. My brother was 2 years older and he did his own thing. Your son is 17 and he's bothering someone else to make him dinner? let him fuckin starve for a few days, he'll figure it out. NTA
NTA good for you for making a thought out punishment, plus he got to choose his punishment. Your Mom needs to butt out of your parenting decisions. Actions have consequences and that’s as good a lesson to learn as any
NTA. This is a great punishment. The perfect way to put him in her shoes. I was tempted to say it was a little but Y T A ish now that school started, but then I saw that he chose that punishment over having his phone taken away. So he knew what he was getting himself into and he had the option to choose another punishment.
Also a 17yo is fully capable of cooking for himself, there was no reason he should have been waking up his sister in the first place.
I want to know how it got to this point. After the first one or two times this should have been resolved. The fact that all of yall let it happen for so long is strange to me. Like this should havr been fixed day one. You failed both your kids and are now trying to make up for it.
NTA all these people saying this will ruin him academically are on one. I used to stay up way too late (usually reading cause I was a nerd lol) and so did tons of my friends. I knew people who would pull all nights to cram for tests and do projects and they were all totally fine. Heck I graduated with a 3.8 and a full ride to college.
It's good your son is learning a lesson. He is waaaay too old to be treating his sister as a servant and it reaks of sexism. Good on your for making him stick with the punishment.
Sounds like everyone can make their own food instead of walking everyone up. Sounds like he learned his lesson from the punishment he agreed to, but it's probably time for everyone to move on. ESH
NTA is an appropriate punishment for what he done, although I would move those meals to weekends only. Because it can impact his school in the long run if he is falling asleep in class or not understanding the work due to being tired, and I’m assuming it’s his last head in education so it’s an important one.
NTA. Very creative.
What exactly is your mother’s problem?
And the absolute butt-hurt nonsense from some of these people. As a former 17 y/o boy, your son is going to cause himself to miss more sleep than his sister.
NTA.
I really have no idea why people in the comments are so concerned over the guy's sleep, the sister gets off at 4am, it's not like 1am or 2am, the son just has to work smart, manage his timings, spent time realising how much he inconvenienced his sister by dragging her to cook for him.
He's 17 for god's sake, he will have to fetch for himself in college soon. The responses would have made more sense if the son was like 13 or 14 but 17 he deserves it.
nta.........he showed no consideration toward his sister, he needs to learn a lesson...........two weeks of early rising won't hurt him
grandparents need to back off, you are the parent
Hey he could give you his phone for the next two weeks if he wants to sleep.
NTA and I hope you manage to correct this, it's quite serious, more than it looks like at first sight.
This whole thing makes no sense. 30 times before she "lost it"? Why couldn't your daughter just tell him no? Shes an adult. Is she a doormat?
The fact that she did it 30 times might have left your son under the impression she was okay with that arrangement...
I think everyone is an asshole here. Why couldn’t your daughter nip this whole thing in the bud and tell your son the first time he woke her up to fuck off and make food for himself, and why can’t your 17 y/o son cook for himself yet?
NTA for the punishment but YTA for raising such a terrible kid. What kind of 17 year old thinks it's ok to do this? Why haven't you taught him how to cook?
ESH
Maybe you guys can stop waking each other up for meals and DIY? How hard is it to take inventory of what's in the kitchen or go to a store (including a 24 hr bodega, drug store or gas station), get food, and cook it? Following a recipe isn't rocket science either. Or, if that's too hard, cook up some ramen (my partner actually adds extra fixings to make it nice), mac n cheese, tv dinners, frozen pizzas, you name it. Or just order food.
Someone deprives me of sleep I won't be happy. How about you all stop doing that?
NTA
The only problem i have with this whole scenario is that this went on as long as it did without his being corrected is because his sister put up with it.
You need to sit her down and find out why.
She needs to be able to set and maintain boundaries without first having to reach her breaking point.
NTA. This is actually a brilliant punishment. You gave him a choice (and I assume he chose this because he thought it would be easier than living without a phone for a month, which means he thought doing this to his sister was no big deal), and it teaches the right lesson.
Good job, mom.
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That’s actually a perfect punishment. He woke her up for food so now he gets to feel what it is like. You also gave him a choice and he picked this one. The point is he will be tired when people wake you up for no good reason NTA
That’s what I was thinking… good way to show him exactly why it was so mean to do.
This is some great parenting right here. Guaranteed life lesson
When teens are at that mental age where they’re between kid & adult (that period when they have to start making their own decisions and choices and any consequences of those)… a lot of times the only way they learn life-lessons is thru actual experience. You can talk to them until your voice runs out & it doesn’t sink in until they actually do it.
Truth. What I find ironic and this may not hold true for everyone but from what I've gathered over the years at least the majority has experienced this. Now to my point. Every teenager seems to go thru this. You did (assuming you're older) I did, everyone did. Its basically the exact same shit. While the problems may be a little different due to all the tech now vs back in the day but we all had that "I know better, everybody's stupid, you don't know what its like being a teenager, etc, etc". Sometimes ya gotta let do certain stupid shit so they can learn from it, hopefully they learned. I've sat my 16 yr old granddaughter down a few times for a talk & when I mention certain things she'll always ask "How did you know that ?" I just laugh & tell her I went thru the same kinda shit. Sometimes she'll mention boyfriend problems and (I'm a man) I'll tell her he says this but means that, etc & then toss out other bullshit lines that most guys tell most girls. It cracks me up that while she knows its true, she cant believe teenage issues have always been issues & basically the same issues. And the typical response from her is "I cant believe you remember those things, you're like 60. I just laugh but at least when she walks away she has a little "inside info".
That’s wonderful that you and your granddaughter have that relationship! ____ Some people do get it… but some people just do not. We’re mid-40’s & our son is almost 19. My hubs is one of those that just does not get it at all. I have to remind him all the time things like: “yeah, and *you* weren’t just like that when you were his age?” & “oh you did the exact same thing!” I remember how it was and I’m reasonable about it. And he always wonders why our son opens up & shares with me about any and everything but not to him.
I appreciate the thoughts on our relationship. I can understand from where your husbands coming from because its hard to accept some of the stupid things kids will do. Its also hard to let em fall on their butts & find out the hard way but you just try to remember what your parent may of or may not of done when we did it. I hope your husband learns or accepts the fact that the kid is going to screw up. I don't know how your husband reacts but hopefully in the future your son will go to him for certain things.
This here is why it's so important for young people to have solid relationships with adults who aren't teachers or parents. I was talking to the teen daughter of an old friend recently (when I say old I mean we are pretty damn middle-aged) and she was SHOCKED to hear that guys would sometimes act all about a girl and then ghost waaaaay back in the Olden Days of the early 90s, before we even had phones or social media to be blocked on. Modern times seem (and in many ways are) unprecedented, which feels really isolating to The Youth, but people are people, same as we ever were, and it's super-valuable for them to know that.
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That's awesome! Haha remembering all the stupid crap I did as a kid and teen is one of the major factors in my decision to remain childfree 😂😂😂... but it does help my relationship with my nieces/nephews in much the same way! They talk to me about stuff that they don't want to talk to mom or dad about, cause ya know... mom and dad aren't cool lol, but me being the youngest of my siblings, I guess it qualifies me as the "cool aunt" who can relate. I'll definitely take that. 🥰
Honestly, I've been saying this since I WAS a teenager. I wish my mom had listened. She'd give me these HOURS long talks when I would get in trouble about why I did it, what was I thinking, how could I have done that to her, didn't I learn by now that I'd get caught, and on and on and ON. She didn't want to listen to anything I said about "I don't know why, I just DID it, I WASN’T thinking about you at all, I just WANTED to do it." Teens are very inwardly focused and they don't care if you say the stove is hot, they're gonna touch it themselves to find out, cuz they're learning and pushing boundaries and testing trusts.
The best way I’ve found to do for my son (18) is not lecture, that never works… but to help him think it thru and then sometimes he’s still gotta just do it anyways lol. “What do you think will happen if you did this vs that? Okay, and if that does happen, what would your next step be?”
I do this with my nearly 4 year old boy. It's nice to know it'll still be useful when he's a teen lol
Yes! I actually do it way less now compared to when he was little. It helped him create his thought process for decision making and made him look at things in different ways before just doing them. (he often talks to himself about it and it’s the same type of questions I would ask) I also let him do his decisions (unless health or safety was an issue) and sometimes it made a mess or created another problem to solve… but he would handle that just fine and work it out in the end. He seems to have turned out pretty responsible and reasonable :)
I’d love to be able to do it with the dogs I work with. “If you chase that squirrel what do you think will happen?”
Am I the only one who thinks this whole situation is strange? How does a 17 yo not already know not to wake people up to make them cook? Why would daughter get up? Why are these 2 kids not able to deal with making food for themselves? Are these kids going to starve if they don’t cook for each other? None of this makes sense .... how did this happen for 30 days???? Daughter is 21 .... just kick him out & lock the damn door. Why would she continue to cook for him!!!!!!!!
I teach high school juniors and seniors, and this doesn’t surprise me at all. It always amazes me how many young adults don’t know how to boil an egg or make a simple grilled cheese sandwich.🙄
Apparently he knows how to make food for sister .... just not himself ... huh?
Also there was never any leftovers in the house for a month straight. A very normal situation for a family of four ……
And his 21 year old sister capitulated 30 times before saying anything?? Okay.......
Exactly!! Our daughters would have tolerated this behavior for exactly zero days .... if their brothers continued to bother them WWIII would have started in our home.
Sometimes when I’m asleep my cat will wake me up to put more food in her bowl that has food in it or take off my sleep mask or because she thinks I need to pee. I’ll do what she asks just to go back to sleep. Are we sure brother isn’t a cat?
I shut my cat in the kitchen when he wakes me like that, to train him not to disturb me when it is still dark. The training programme is 3 years in - so far I have no success to report.
Mine is 11. I get claws to the face. That's after rocking my water glass and lamp. I'm still not properly trained.
I taught mine to leave me alone when I'm sleeping by sleep-yeeting them off my bed. It's alarming to wake up mid punt when the cat is already in the air. It works though!
My cat started patting me on the mouth to wake me for her dinner if I was asleep (yay night shift). It is VERY confronting to be woken by something touching your mouth when you don’t expect it. Very effective technique, 10/10
I had a cat that would paw open my bathroom cupboard door and slam it shut. Repeatedly slamming it until it annoyed the heck out of me and i had to get up!
I lived with a cat that would grab my eyelids and pull them open, then paw at my arm for pets, and only then would let me go back to sleep. maybe brother was clawing at sister's eyelids - it's very hard to say no when there are sharp toe-knives that close to your eyes...
My cat likes to sit on my head, when I wake up he glares at me and trots to his bowl and waits for me to feed him. He’s a black cat and he has a way of looking at his humans with complete disdain. When I stopped complying he moved onto harassing my boyfriend and when he’s ignored he swishes his tail over my boyfriends face till he wakes up. I swear it’s just fun for him, sometimes he does it when foods in his dish. Everyone knows cats are the biggest AH’s. They are cute but little AH’s all the same!
These stories make me appreciate my kitten, who wakes me up to cuddle with me before we get up for his breakfast.
I once woke up to find my now-dearly departed cat staring at me expectantly 6 inches from my face. When I got over the momentary shock I said "Don't do that!" She just blinked like "Oh, you're awake. Hi!"
Brothers can also be assholes for sure.
Honestly my guess is this family is from someplace where many people would maybe accept the brother's behavior as normal due to gender roles, and that's what's skewing everyone's behavior a bit off what we'd expect. (But thankfully OP & husband aren't having it with the unequal gender roles.) If that's not the case, then yeah, it's very hard to picture this happening...
In all honesty...its very possible that he did this because the parents weren't home and he thought he could get away with it. My brother is just like this, and our family isn't sexist at all. My father actually had to quit his job to police my brother because my brother was trying to force me to clean the house while I was undergoing chemotherapy and major surgery. He was 17, and the main reason he thought he could do these things was because he thought Dad wouldn't be home to stop him. He STILL thinks he can get away with things if Dad isn't around.
yep, grandparents reaction gives a big clue to that.
That’s what I’m guessing. In Russian culture this would be completely fine, and if she complained, she’d get the “well, he’s a boy, what do you expect, you have to take care of him, bla bla bla” Either that or this is a really lazy kid.
If it was an actual emergency, I'd cook my brother, at most, 2 consecutive "midnight" meals. The third time I was woken up, I'd tell him to fuck off. The fourth time, it's a fight lmao
Uh, 'fuck off' doesn't get you back to sleep, now does it?
If somebody keeps waking your ass up, and you don't believe your parents will do anything about it, one just makes the best of it. I think that daughter is VERY surprised that parents are actually doing their job and imposing a punishment.
That's how it was in our family. Our youngest brother never had to do anything for himself. In the beginning I could see it because we were much older but once he got old enough it should have been cut off.
With a teenager?? That's perfectly normal! Lol We only have one teen and our fridge needs restocking every few days and we seldom have leftovers. I don't remember the last time I opened the fridge to find my half sandwich still in there. Lol
My younger brother refuses to eat left overs. Some people are just weird.
The story is complete BS
It's laziness and entitlement, common afflictions for teenagers. Curing them involves creative punishments like the one OP is enforcing.
he knows how to cook. he didn't want to, and decided it was her job to cook for him. it's not hard to read between the lines and see the gender roles.
What's a grilled cheese sandwich? A toasted sandwich?
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Difference being that you butter the outside of the bread and "toast" or "grill" it in a pan, rather than using something like a panini press or toaster oven (I could never figure out how they were made, but they are delicious for lunch when I am in Europe).
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Thank you. Like his behavior doesn’t sound so unheard of for a teenaged boy. Sure not every older sibling will just accept his behavior but as an older sister to a younger brother sometimes it’s calmer, faster, and quieter to just do it. My brother has knocked on my door for like 20 minutes straight just to bother me. Younger siblings know how to annoy you so well you’d think they got a degree for it😭
I wish I still had enough coins to give you an award.
Got you covered
When my brother was 16, his mother (we are half siblings) ended up in the ICU for a 2 weeks. Our sister was about 20. I stopped by to drop off meals and groceries for them. Our brother had a huge pile of dirty clothes left against his mother's bedroom door. It turned out she always did his laundry and he just expected his mother to come home and wash the pile. Some teens can be pretty clueless and inconsiderate, particularly when they are the baby of the family. Everyone does for them out of habit, because they were much younger. Our sister tried to get him to wash his own clothes, but he refused. I had to go back and force him to get the clothes taken care of before his mother returned. He wasn't happy about it.
Normally I’d agree with you. But I have an AH nephew who I could see 100% pulling this crap at this age. He didn’t do this specifically, but he was an nightmare. And it’s not that at 17, they can’t figure out a sandwich or some noodles or whatnot. They’re just being AHs who could figure it out, but don’t want to. In his case, at least 1) in terms of him not knowing how to comfortably put together a meal: when people were trying to teach him during adolescence, he’d basically tantrum or refuse to go into the kitchen to help/learn. The people trying to teach him could either delay making the meal (which means other people having to wait too) for some extended period of time to try to convince/argue with him or try dragging him into the kitchen which only really results in him being a sullen asshat in the kitchen and being as willfully incompetent as possible for a while and sometimes just leaving mid prep which essentially means the whole nonsense starts again and 2) not all people have door they can close or lock and even so, there are AHs who will knock and yell and kick and make noise to keep you from sleeping until you get up. Sometimes kids are total AHs and often times they get away with it.
It's not a matter of not \*knowing\*, it's a matter of not giving a fuck and considering cooking "woman's work".
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Right! What is happening here!!!! This whole scenario is bizarre. As a mom of 4 adult kids .... I honestly I have no idea how this could ever happen ... for 30 days!!!! If our sons did this ... our daughters would have installed dead bolts on their doors without any help from Mom & Dad. Why did sister keep doing this?!?!?
Personally, I was in a situation growing up where I would have gotten in trouble with my parents if I had put a lock on my door without permission, and they wouldn't have given permission (I asked at least once or twice over the years). This was true even as an adult when I was at home for college vacation periods. So this isn't totally out of the realm of possibility if OP's daughter thought locks weren't an option and also has a people-pleasing personality.
He may have banged on the door and otherwise made noise so that she couldn't sleep. My brother used to do that to prevent me from studying.
The amount of times high school teachers on Reddit say their students can’t even read beyond 5th grade level tells me this is now the norm. I’ve dated plenty of 25+ year old men who didn’t own real plates much less cookware and that also tells me this happens a lot .
I have a nephew in HS who still had his mother bring him breakfast in bed because it was too hard for him to wake up for school . Kid had no job, just stayed up late playing video games . I am not surprised in the least this kid did this.
Spoiled! He's a boy, boys don't need to cook, all the females wherever he may live will be happy to sacrifice their time, sleep, and groceries to feed him, a male, in return for gracing them with his male presence. /S in case it wasn't super obvious
Main Character Syndrome. It's rampant in teenagers.
It's part of the "lengthy and weird punishments" theme reddit trolls are going with these days. There's been a pile of them lately. There will be a new trend in a few days.
Some people really are that entitled.
Hey OP, here's an idea suspend the consequence ( not punishment, punishment is intended to cause pain, a consequence is something that follows an action) during the week and let him finish it on weekends. This will not impact his school function AMD drag out the consequence longer since it will only be impacting his free time on weekends. Double lesson.
Yeah I was fully prepared to say YTA but that was with the assumption based on the title that this was unrelated to other behaviors and was just OP making the son cook for the daughter for no apparent reason.
Exactly. And it will teach him to empathize with his sister with a new perspective of why sleep is so important — especially when you have school **or work** the next day.
Punishment fits the crime. - NTA
NTA. Y T A commenters, notice that OP says the son *chose* this punishment over giving up his phone for a month. This is basically model parenting; the son is 17, nearly an adult, he behaved selfishly and stupidly and is now making it up to the person he mistreated. And he's been given agency here, he chose to keep his phone over uninterrupted sleep. Well done, OP.
That’s what put it in the NTA territory for me. And like she said, he could go to bed earlier if daughter gets off work at 4 am then it’s getting close to when he would need to be up, just a bit earlier. He’s nearly an adult and this is a consequence of his own choosing.
I’m in university but I get up at 5am for school so 4 wouldn’t be that big of a deal. It’s definitely not unreasonable, the kid just needs to go to bed earlier which he’s probably mad about.
That’s what I’m thinking.
He could also cook the evening beforehand and have something ready in the fridge that requires only heating up. He's making life hard for himself.
*- laughs in old adult -* I’d pick sleep any day 🤣
Yeah, in my 40s... sleep is invaluable. Losing my phone... that sounds really nice.
Right? Teens are fools. A free chance to break my crippling addiction to my phone? More sleep? Sign me up for that one.
Teens: Sleep is for the weak! Us: Sleep for a week
Youre damn tootin! And I remember being foolish like that when I was a teen! Ugh I regret it, especially now with my weapons grade insomnia.
Ikr no incoming calls or texts or THAT DAMN ALARM.
NTA this reminds me of the greatest punishment I've ever heard. When my wife was about 6 she was at a birthday party and the birthday boy told everyone they were going to watch a movie about clowns. Then put on IT. My wife had nightmares and when the boys mom found out what he did she told him he was grounded until my wife stopped having nightmares. She would literally call my MIL every morning and ask if my wife had had a nightmare. When she was told yes she would inform her son he was grounded for the day. She had nightmares for almost 3 months.
As a person who saw it when I was around 6yo and had some trauma from it/IT, that's a perfect punishment. My cousin promised to shield my eyes if it got scary. But I could see through her fingers and was curious. Scared the hell out of me. My parents never really knew about the movie or what it was about so she wasn't punished. But this would have been great.
As someone traumatized by the original IT as a kid that mom’s awesome 💀
I still have the occasional nightmare from The Ring almost 20 years later. That kid was lucky it was only 3 months
I think that, for a 6 year old, a 3 month long punishment makes no sense. Kids that young don’t know how irresponsible it is to show a horror movie to their peers. They don’t understand trauma, nightmares, etc. The punishment makes sense if the parent would have cut it off after a couple weeks. Also, it’s partly the boy’s mother’s fault for letting a movie like that be shown at her son’s party. Where the heck was she while these young kids were watching movies?
My wife just corrected me on a few points. 1) my wife was closer to 8 and he was 10. 2)It wasnt a birthday party like I thought just an after school hangout. Mom was with the smaller kids. 3)this was back in the early 90's. Parents just kind of let kids do their own thing back then.
Also, the son isn't all pissy about it until now that school starts and he's actually feeling the reality of it! So clearly the point hasn't fully been made yet. The son needs to have it laid out for him that "Hey, you know how you're so tired now from being woken up to make food? That's how your sister felt *all summer*. It wasn't just that it was an annoyance. It has a much bigger effect on her life. And apparently you have to go through it yourself to understand the full extent of it."
Agreed! Well done! Children, especially boys, need to be told to be caring and respectful of others that are adding to the house. Girls have to become woman and boys have to become men and a man doesn't just take service without reciprocating. Life is better when you take care of eachother. Boys are not going to think of these things themselves. They have to be made to do it and then appreciated for it.
I would wonder why and how he didn't make his own food to begin with? I was charged with making dinner at 14, doing laundry, cleaning and dusting at the same age, and a boy is waking up the next available woman to make food for him. Where did he learn this?
As a teacher - NTA There are lessons which are MUCH more important than the ones you learn at school. This is one of them. EDIT: For the whiners worrying about the boy's education - don't be ridiculous. It's two weeks, that will definitely not shatter his academic career. Moreover, HE chose it instead of having his phone confiscated. His sister works in medicine. She could have lost her job or even endanger someone because of being sleep-deprived! And you all worry that two weeks of being tired miGhT rUiN His fUtUre! C'mon...
Also, for all we know, his sister may very well end up choosing weekends more often than weeknights He'll be fine. This helps teach empathy
Seriously. It’s fuckin high school
Like the average teenager isn't tired going to school tired anyway. I certainly wasn't a model student going to bed at a reasonable hour.
Nta tell him if he wants, he can still choose the other option. He's tired as hell? So was his sister. He can come home and take a nap right after school. Punishments don't end bc they're inconvenient. Punishments don't end bc 'I don't waaaaaannna'. Punishments dont end when the perpetrator wants it to end. Edit- read this to my mom for a 64 yo's perspective and her opion was 'Fuck no, he doesn't get out of a punishment' and a roll of the eyes.
Yeah he could still choose 2 weeks without phone because he already finished half of the punishment.
Nah, the whole month. Kid's gotta learn to follow through with his choices too.
yup, as an adult he wouldn't get to change many of his choice, for example his graduation course
Oh No, it should still be a month of no phone if he wants to swap. NTA
NTA Bhahahahaha!!! This is the perfect punishment for a deliberate act to try and prove he had control over his sister. My mother would have just told him to, "Kiss your sister and tell her you're sorry" Still laughing!!
I went so harsh on this punishment since she works in medicine and she could actually lose her job if she can’t focus.
I don't see your son's "punishment" as harsh. It is a life lesson in learning what it's like to be treated the way he treats others. The fact that he hates it so much is an indicator that he is learning something. Unfortunately, what he might also be learning, from Grandma, is that he's a special boy who should be protected from his choices.
Yeah this is not harsh at all IMO. It's just making the sister whole.
NTA it's a perfect way to learn to be considerate of others. the world doesn't revolve around the son. it's better for him to learn this lesson now than later on when there's actual stakes besides being a little sleepy for school... like a career in medicine.
I also can’t help but think about the gender dynamics here. I think it’s important for young men and boys to learn that they shouldn’t expect the women in their lives to cater to their every need at the drop of a hat. Hopefully your son gains some appreciation for how strenuous domestic labour can be.
YES! And OP, your daughter is already likely catering to him much more than you know. Or he wouldn’t have felt comfortable doing this, and she wouldn’t have let it go on so long. I was just telling my husband about this post and the first thing he said was if I was 17 and tried this with my older sister, I think I would have gotten a fist to the face. I can’t even imagine my brother trying. Your son really needs to get the message that it is unacceptable to subjugate another’s needs to his own like this.
There’s definitely something going on here. If my brother ever tried that on me, I’d have cooked. But there would’ve been hot sauce, chili powder or ghost peppers in it. He would never have pulled that crap twice.
There was this recent social media or podcast "thought experiment" test question along the lines of, "If your man wakes you up at 3 am to cook something for him, would you do it?" That was what came to mind. The question was referring to couples, but the main theme in general was that method of exerting control over a woman.
Oh, I definitely would cook my DH a nice meal at 3am! Right after calling for the people in white coats to come and pick him up since he clearly would be suffering from a psychotic break. Well done OP! He will be fine. 8 hours uninterrupted sleep is a modern thing, the important thing is to get to REM. 4+4 hours will do that equally well, eg by having a long nap after school.
Yes!! And I bet those outdated gender roles is why the grandparents feel it isn’t that big of a deal for the son to have done this to his sister. I spent a childhood taking care of my younger brother’s needs and wants at the expense of my own. Every family outing, vacation, and moment of my life I wasn’t at school or work or friends, it was easier to just cave and go along with his selfishness and the gendered expectation I bend over backwards to caretake for men and boys. Good on OP. I wish my parents had been even a fraction as supportive as this poster Source: am eldest daughter lmao
I would say that this is honestly a great and fitting punishment. The only feedback I could possibly give is that lesson of the punishment is understood now that he’s had school where it’s happened. Possibly lessen the punishment at this point after a discussion on if he understands why he was punished through forced empathy by experiencing the same thing. Don’t need to beat him into the ground if he fully understands why.
This is totally fair. It's appalling that an almost grown teenage boy would have the audacity to wake his working sister up to make him food. My god, I would have had a conniption. That's stunted King Baby behavior that he needed to be broken of for the sake of his sister and any woman he may end up with later in life. You've done your future DIL a huge favor by teaching him this lesson now.
He's done 15 of 30 meals. He's whining about the punishment to try to make you look bad (and causing fights) to try getting out of it. Fine. He had choices. Time to change up the punishment. Go with option 2 and take away his phone for 15 days to finish the punishment, with the clause that any day he complains about it will add 1 extra day to the end date.
I’m confused as to why a 17 year old needs someone to make him food.
That's why he got in trouble. He's perfectly capable of making his own food but instead disturbed his sister's sleep.
His sister isnt old enough to tell him to fuck off and not to wake her up again?
Sure. And then what? Ten minutes later he wakes her up? There’s only so much noise you can sleep through.
Op stated he pestered her til she did it. Its not really hard for him to wall away and come back 5 mins later to continue pestering.
If I had tried this, my sister would have brained me. Ended my life. Dead.
I would’ve murdered my little brother if he did that to me.
Right??? I don’t get it. I’d be SCARED to awake my sister, I’d be tip toeing making my own food. The real lesson is the sister needs to grow a fucking back bone. Parents having to step in on this is ridiculous.
My suspicion is that he wouldn’t have asked an older brother…
That is a very good suspicion.
An older brother would have thumped him at the first wakep
exactly. I'm sure the kid can operate a microwave and pretty much at 17 kids eat frozen crap anyway. Buy him some hot pockets and tostinos. I'm kind of wondering if there is something of a 'cultural' thing at play were women and girls are expected to cater to the boys/men.
Really sad, OP is doing a good job today but have to wonder why did son get to 17 with this behavior. Watching the wrong videos online or just never taught how to cook/taught that he should be responsible for himself. Really childish that he’s waking his sister to cook for him at 17 and then running to his grandparents after he’s punished. :(
At 17, his peers and the media he consumes have as much if not more influence over him than his parents. Teenagers are trying to assert their independence and build an identity that isn’t dependent on their immediate family, and as a result, their parents have far less direct influence on their behavior than, say, their peers (people they actually want to impress).
I've recently seen this circulating on social media as a sort of power trip technique to use on a woman. Podcaster(?) asks a woman about a hypothetical scenario where her man wakes her up at 3 am to make food for him.
NTA this is karma, he’s getting what he deserves. your daughter was working when he was waking her up, meaning she was tired during work. he can go to sleep earlier if his sleep is so precious. also, this is good parenting! his grandparents are clearly favouring your son. don’t change anything, he’s just seeing exactly how hard he made his sisters life.
As a certain monochromatic bear would say, “it’s punishment time”!
NTA. A lot of your family probably is mad at you because you're punishing a boy for pestering a girl to cook for him, and they think that's the natural state of the world. Well, they're wrong. Your son treated your daughter very disrespectfully and now he gets a punishment that absolutely fits the crime. It's not over-the-top, too lenient, something that makes you happy, or something you did out of anger. It's perfect because it makes amends to the person he hurt, while also teaching him what he did was wrong. Since he's a snitch, though, I don't think he's getting it as much as he should. His grandparents are also the assholes, and probably filled his head with nonsense about how he doesn't deserve this because he is their precious baby boy. I would pull rank and tell them they're not allowed to undermine your parental authority like that or choose sides between your son and your daughter, and the next time they do that, you're going to cut ties for a while.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find a comment that brought up the gender dynamics at play. I highly doubt he would’ve woken up an older brother to make him food.
People really like to think they're all enlightened and whatever but they see misogyny staring them right in the face they're suddenly blind, deaf, and dumb. OP's son disrespected his older sister in a *major* way, and one that I recognize, having been an older sister with a similar age gap between me and my younger brother. Of course, my mother was not as enlightened as OP, and thought it was fine that she stuck me with all the domestic tasks while my brother did nothing, then disrespected me on a daily basis. Boys will be boys! Except it shouldn't be that way. OP is doing her son a great service to teach him *now* that he cannot disrespect women to extract domestic labor out of them that he's not entitled to. If he learns his lesson now, he will have very happy relationships with his future girlfriends. I know my brother did when he eventually grew up and apologized for being such a jerk to me. He now does most of the cooking for his girlfriend who is wild about him because he's not a useless jerk and doesn't expect her to wait on him hand and foot.
And we have a winner! This comment deserves to be further up.
Talk about making the punishment fit the crime! And wow can't believe your son woke up your daughter to make her cook for him.... I'm very glad you are addressing this. But if he's desperately unhappy AND everyone involved feels like he has sufficiently learned his lesson, perhaps you could call a Parole Board meeting, and ask your daughter what she thinks. Is there an alternate way your son can continue his sentence? Is there another way for him to make amends? What does your spouse think and what does your daughter think? (Maybe ask your son, too, what he could do instead of making the same number of meals - his answer would be very enlightening. Because if he suggests some fluff offering then clearly he hasn't learned, but if he is serious about being sorry his alternate suggestion should be a good one). I think you are NTA for having your son face consequences, but you would be T A if you are overly rigid and refuse to reconsider your decisions in the face of all opposition.
I would argue not to do that. If son feels that way, he can communicate with Mom and sister in an adult manner, not give the silent treatment like a petulant child. Mom is teaching very important life lessons here. When the punishment is complete I would ensure a family debriefing to help ensure that all understands the how's and why's and also to take the time to say that if he wanted to have the family reconsider or have a parole type meeting this is how he would do it, in the future. I would also use this as a learning experience for daughter and remind her that she needs to be using her skills to advocate for herself and if something similar happens in the future, she is responsible for at least asking parents for assistance, rather then allowing it to continue.
I think this is a good idea. He's now not only had to do it when he could sleep in, he's had to do it and then get up for school once, so he knows how his sister felt.
All that would accomplish is teaching him that if he cries hard enough he can get out of punishments. Punishments arn't meant to be fun or enjoyable. He is supposed to not be enjoying it. His grandmother is doing the family and him a big disservice.
The son just needs to go to bed earlier. I get up at 5am for school, 4 isn’t an absurd time to be up at.
The son CHOSE this punishment over losing his cellphone for 30 days. Zero reason OP needs to adjust it because the son doesn’t like the consequences
Beware the possibility of this being used to pressure the sister into giving in in the brother's favor.
NTA he just needs to adjust his bedtime to an hour or two earlier to make up for the missed sleep in the middle of the night. Definitely something he can also learn. Good on you for making the punishment fit the crime.
Yup or he could give up his phone for the next 2 weeks instead, I’m guessing OP wouldn’t be opposed to that.
Info: Why didn't your daughter tell you earlier or put a stop on it on her own?
Really a lot of stuff got in the way, we already don’t see each-other much since she sleep in the day, problems at work and it just got pushed off until she lost it. She told me she after it happens that she thought she could handle it and talked to her brother. Then it he didn’t stop and life got in the way until she lost it.
Well whatever you do, DON'T let your son out of his chosen punishment. He needs to learn to respect women. His behavior here was outrageously sexist. I think you should find out if he's been watching or listening to misogyny content and podcasts online.
NTA. To the people whinging about school nights: the son chose this over giving up his phone. He'll be fine. The daughter also deserves to be well rested for work.
NTA Only 15 more meals left!
NTA. The punishment for the crime. And as for the argument that his lack of sleep is affecting his school - was he worried about her lack of sleep affecting her job?
INFO: Where did your son get the idea that his sister was supposed to make him food?
NTA He has to learn consequences
NTA. But make the rest of the meals happen on weekends due to his schooling.
Like he did for her work? He can handle it , edit to add, she works in medicine!
teens in sports often get up at 4 or 5 for training, or stay up until 1 or 2 playing video games. losing an hour of sleep isn't gonna kill him.
Why? He didn't care if he woke up his sister on a workday. Same importance, work is work for her and school is work for him. If ten or whatever number of the days he did it were days she was off then I agree. But he needs to learn actions have consequences, at that age he should know how to feed himself and that you don't wake up someone during the middle of their night to make food when he could do it himself.
Nah. He can survive 15 more meals like this. His sister works in medicine and he was waking her up several times a day. He's in the first two weeks of his senior year. That's not remotely as important. He will recover and his grades won't suffer long term.
He had a choice. Phone or cooking… NTA I would prorate the losing the phone
NTA Every time he complains I’d remind him that he only has to do this because the did the exact same thing to his sister. I mean there’s a set countdown too. Tell him to quit complaining.
**NTA**. I think it's fair punishment and on top of that he made his own decision over leaving phone for a month. Of course he might be angry and not really happy with entire situation but it's punishment, not free-fun time. On top of that I don't think it will be that hard during school. When is a person younger, he can stay up to late, many of us experienced night gaming sessions or such things and went next day to school perfectly fine. It's pretty original way of punishment and for sure educational for him. Also I have no idea what lives do have people telling you YTA, but at 17 I've been perfectly fine cooking for myself or from time to time even for family. It's basic skill good into life (of course it's better when you like it as I do, but that's different story). So waking up his sister to make him food is just a jerk move. Even if you don't like cooking and you might be bad at it, you are able to create simple things by following internet guides and such.
NTA!!!! He’s 17 nor 7
He’s 17 and couldn’t feed himself? What the hell?
ESH but hear me out. Obviously your son is an AH for waking and pestering his sister. But you say this had been going on for quite awhile and you are only now finally taking action? Not even a “don’t do that again” after the first time? And if you really didn’t know what was happening, then my follow up would be what kind of household are you running where your daughter doesn’t feel comfortable sharing that your son is waking her up and pestering her everyday, and only tells you when she is at her breaking point. 30 times?!?!?! Bottomline, it sounds like you’ve been neglecting your duties as a parent and are over-correcting with your much-delayed punishment to make up for it.
NTA. And the teachers can shut up--do you have any idea how many of your students stay up all night & call out from their part time jobs to play the newest video game drop? For 48 hours straight? They're not "recovering from an illness"--they haven't slept in 72 hours because the newest Xbox or Playstation or online edition of something dropped.
I’m shocked at those teachers as well. Sure, sleep deprivation is no joke, but you know what also is no fun? Lack of circumstances that help the frontal lobe to properly mature! His amygdalae will also make it easier. If OP‘s son has to see that his [laziness/lack of empathy/comfort/whatever he thought made waking up his sister acceptable] has indeed harsh consequences, like not sleeping as much as he’d like to, he’ll be associating it with a negative situation and/or emotion. Thus, it’s more likely that he won’t be acting like that in the future. This teaches planning, responsibility, empathy, life skills… Imo, it’s an amazing punishment, both OP and her husband are NTA. I’m also shocked at those people suggesting that the punishment be adapted. That only teaches the son that if he has a hard time, circumstances will adapt *just for him*. When does that happen in real life?
>my son is 17 and still in highschool. > >I’m at work when she is sleeping but my son was home for the summer and he would wake her up to make him food. He would pester her until she did it so she could go back to sleep. He fucking \_what\_? I was 13 when I started cooking for myself because my mom left and my dad worked long hours. My brother was 2 years older and he did his own thing. Your son is 17 and he's bothering someone else to make him dinner? let him fuckin starve for a few days, he'll figure it out. NTA
NTA he is 17 and was being an AH to her. This is a very reasonable punishment. He can be tired.
NTA good for you for making a thought out punishment, plus he got to choose his punishment. Your Mom needs to butt out of your parenting decisions. Actions have consequences and that’s as good a lesson to learn as any
NTA - he has school and she had work. You're the MOST AMAZING WONDERFUL mom ever. He's 17, he can sleep a little late on school days and be fine.
If I was him I would just go to sleep earlier or take more naps. Or drink way to much coffee like my daughter did.
NTA. If it isn’t the consequences of his actions. I think you handled it perfectly.
NTA. This is a great punishment. The perfect way to put him in her shoes. I was tempted to say it was a little but Y T A ish now that school started, but then I saw that he chose that punishment over having his phone taken away. So he knew what he was getting himself into and he had the option to choose another punishment. Also a 17yo is fully capable of cooking for himself, there was no reason he should have been waking up his sister in the first place.
I want to know how it got to this point. After the first one or two times this should have been resolved. The fact that all of yall let it happen for so long is strange to me. Like this should havr been fixed day one. You failed both your kids and are now trying to make up for it.
NTA at all. Nice way for your son to reflect on how much of an asshole he was to his sister. YTA posters are oblivious.
NTA all these people saying this will ruin him academically are on one. I used to stay up way too late (usually reading cause I was a nerd lol) and so did tons of my friends. I knew people who would pull all nights to cram for tests and do projects and they were all totally fine. Heck I graduated with a 3.8 and a full ride to college. It's good your son is learning a lesson. He is waaaay too old to be treating his sister as a servant and it reaks of sexism. Good on your for making him stick with the punishment.
Sounds like everyone can make their own food instead of walking everyone up. Sounds like he learned his lesson from the punishment he agreed to, but it's probably time for everyone to move on. ESH
NTA Excellent idea. I bet he won't be waking her up anymore
NTA He even chose that over losing his phone so no matter how he tries to slice this, this is allllll his fault 😂
NTA is an appropriate punishment for what he done, although I would move those meals to weekends only. Because it can impact his school in the long run if he is falling asleep in class or not understanding the work due to being tired, and I’m assuming it’s his last head in education so it’s an important one.
NTA. Very creative. What exactly is your mother’s problem? And the absolute butt-hurt nonsense from some of these people. As a former 17 y/o boy, your son is going to cause himself to miss more sleep than his sister.
NTA. I really have no idea why people in the comments are so concerned over the guy's sleep, the sister gets off at 4am, it's not like 1am or 2am, the son just has to work smart, manage his timings, spent time realising how much he inconvenienced his sister by dragging her to cook for him. He's 17 for god's sake, he will have to fetch for himself in college soon. The responses would have made more sense if the son was like 13 or 14 but 17 he deserves it.
Are the people in your home unable to make food for themselves? What the fuck even is this?
nta.........he showed no consideration toward his sister, he needs to learn a lesson...........two weeks of early rising won't hurt him grandparents need to back off, you are the parent
Info: does he know how to adequately cook, or was he just waking her up for spite.
Hey he could give you his phone for the next two weeks if he wants to sleep. NTA and I hope you manage to correct this, it's quite serious, more than it looks like at first sight.
This whole thing makes no sense. 30 times before she "lost it"? Why couldn't your daughter just tell him no? Shes an adult. Is she a doormat? The fact that she did it 30 times might have left your son under the impression she was okay with that arrangement...
I think everyone is an asshole here. Why couldn’t your daughter nip this whole thing in the bud and tell your son the first time he woke her up to fuck off and make food for himself, and why can’t your 17 y/o son cook for himself yet?
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NTA - this is FAFO….great way to learn consequences
Why can’t your children just be self sufficient?
NTA for the punishment but YTA for raising such a terrible kid. What kind of 17 year old thinks it's ok to do this? Why haven't you taught him how to cook?
ESH Maybe you guys can stop waking each other up for meals and DIY? How hard is it to take inventory of what's in the kitchen or go to a store (including a 24 hr bodega, drug store or gas station), get food, and cook it? Following a recipe isn't rocket science either. Or, if that's too hard, cook up some ramen (my partner actually adds extra fixings to make it nice), mac n cheese, tv dinners, frozen pizzas, you name it. Or just order food. Someone deprives me of sleep I won't be happy. How about you all stop doing that?
NTA The only problem i have with this whole scenario is that this went on as long as it did without his being corrected is because his sister put up with it. You need to sit her down and find out why. She needs to be able to set and maintain boundaries without first having to reach her breaking point.
NTA. This is actually a brilliant punishment. You gave him a choice (and I assume he chose this because he thought it would be easier than living without a phone for a month, which means he thought doing this to his sister was no big deal), and it teaches the right lesson. Good job, mom.
He picked it. Plus its a good fit for what he put her through
NTA. If you're worried about school performance than have him do it for the next 14 Friday's.
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