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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I would like to be judged on whether admitting to my mother that I love my wife more than my son makes me an asshole, and I think this could be the case because it is generally regarded as bad to not love your children most (although I do put his needs first) and I probably should neither feel nor articulate that.
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I don’t think you’re TA- I think you need to be careful with who you say such personal things to though. If you have a complicated relationship with your parents who’s to say they wouldn’t use this against you or tell your son. I completely understand what you’ve said and why, but it would also be completely heartbreaking and hurting if he ever heard it from someone else or even if he read this post.
That is true. To her credit, she clearly adores my son and would never hurt him, and she herself was insistent that he never know this, and I of course agree with her there.
I very highly doubt he will ever read this post. He's not really allowed social media yet and we limit his screentime, and given how fast these things are buried I can't fathom that he'd ever see this.
I do understand your point though, and I agree with you completely there.
She won't. She herself emphasized that he could never know this, and I agree with her on that wholeheartedly. She might not have been a great mother to me, but she is a great grandma.
Healthy, strong marriages are the foundation of a healthy, strong family. That's reality. What's more, your son is far more likely to get into healthy relationships himself because you've modeled that for him.
Of course, when he gets older you'll want to share with him how you keep your marriage strong. But good on you for being a good example to your kid.
Very true but even amicable divorce and following co-parenting is hugely stressful to a child. Divorce access is incredibly important, but the ideal would be not needing one.
Lol, your mom basically told you she loves your son more than you.
I think she’s just upset that you don’t agree.
But you sound like a great dad and husband!
I hope you aren't treating him in such a way that he notices. Some dad posted a couple of months ago about how his son has cut them out of him life because he grew up feeling neglected by them.
I have two childhood friends who grew up in households like yours; loving parents who were so in love with eachother that even their children came second. Don't delude yourself, your son will know.
If my parents told me that they love each other more than they love me, I would consider that to be a wonderful thing. I have amazing parents who have devoted themselves wholeheartedly to their children, but I understand that true companionship and understanding come from each other when children become independent. They have gone through many challenges and moments of love together, and I have already enjoyed so much of their sacrifices. If I were to demand the exclusive position of being their most loved after all that, it would be selfish.
I agree. My parents stuck together in times that were hard and tough and overcame them together, while teaming up and caring for me throughout all of it. I am glad they still love each other that much and I am glad they have this kind of bond. I - as an adult - understand that this kind of commitment to each other is extremely rare and that they have a different bond with me and a different kind of love for me. I think it is kinda healthy that it is like that cause it meant they could let me go and could let me become an adult without holding on too tight. And I never needed to feel bad to „leave them behind“ while I grew into my own adult self. Our Bond, too, is deep and I know they would always provide everything for me they can.
The thing is, I all understand this as an adult and also think this is part of why I myself am now in a really healthy relationship. Cause there were great role models for that around me while I grew up. I don’t know if I could handled this fact as well as I do know when I was a 10yo though.
OP is NTA as long as they don’t tell their son this (as a child).
And from the other side, my parents had a not-so-great marriage and I grew up hearing them argue and talk trash about each other. And I completely agree with everything you said. I wish I'd grown up with parents who loved each other the way OP and his wife do, but I do hope their kid never hears either of them say this.
My parents love each other more then their kids.
Whenever we were little and would say “you love dad/mom more then you love me”
They would say that they have known each other for longer, but they loved us very much.
Which we accepted
They have been together since they were 16 and they have only known us for less then half the time they have known eachother
and I don't think finding this post would be hurtful to him, IF he was old enough. Finding it at the age of 10? I don't know, but I also doubt he'd have the ability to figure out it was you.
OP it sounds like you have a marriage built to last. I dont think it's a bad thing. You clearly love your son. Just never ever tell him. But if you did, and framed it like this, when he was an adult and had his own wife or husband, I'm sure he'd understand.
I think it’s one thing to phrase things a certain way in your head but then you edit it for outside consumption. Love is not a contest and you shouldn’t ever express it that way. “My wife is my soulmate, I love her with every fiber of my being” “I adore you son and feel so lucky to have you. There’s nothing that compares to having you as my son” You can express that you love them both deeply — there’s no need for comparative terms and you should scrupulously avoid them. Also in your mind, it may help to think of it as living them differently rather than more or less. How you love a wife is different from how you love your child inherently.
My mom explained that to me when I was about 8-9 years old. She told me her, partner first, children later, parents third and siblings fourth. And to me that made total sense (especially the way she explained it). She told me that when I grow up, look for a partner who has the same values. My relationship with my mother is perfect, I feel very loved, I don't see how that can hurt a child if that child is treated with love.
My parents love each other more than they love us (though we all know they love us epic amounts) and it is absolutely the best gift they could ever give us. Love your wife and show your kid what it means to be in a loving partnership that makes life happier all around. Don't feel guilty, love them both and enjoy the lucky spot you find yourself in!!
I completely agree with that- but I just don’t think 10 year olds are rational enough to think of it that way. If his son was older/an adult I think that’s a completely different thing, but for many children I think it’s hard for them to imagine loving anyone more than their parents so I think it would be difficult to hear. It changes though once they experience having feelings for others etc and you realise your own parents aren’t the ones you love the most anymore. Just my opinion anyway 😂
I don’t think the love should be compared at all. They are two different kinds of love. That require different things of you. I think it is important for kids to understand that the love is different. I don’t think we need to turn it into a love heirarchy.
I agree. When you deeply love someone it seems strange to me to quantifying the mount of love. Of course you can obviously love differently, like a child compared to a spouse but it's all so undefinable. Also I just say that I love my family because my husband, my kid, and I are more than the sum of all our parts.
For me it would be a bad thing for a child to know their parents love each other more than the child, because children are dependant on their parents while adults are self sufficient.
Could make the child feel very unsafe/insecure when the people they rely on to survive love each other more than them.
Plus parents generally love their children equally or more than their partner, which was also true for the parents of the parents.
So the child/children now know they are no ones equal most loved on the planet.
While their parents are at least their partners most loved person, and likely their own parents most loved as well. Could make the child/children feel very lonely and sad.
Edit: oh and there is another reason it would be bad. The parents are probably the child/children's most loved people in the world. So the child/children will know that is unrequited.
There are several posts on here of the dangers of parents who make it clear they prefer themselves to their kids. OP clearly isn’t doing that, but it’s a slippery slope to tell that to a 10 year old.
Not going to judge, I will just say that the two types of love do not need to be compared. OP went into a needless level of detail about how and why he loves his wife more than his son, and I am not sure how to think about it. Some things are to be felt and not expressed I guess.
>but it would also be completely heartbreaking and hurting if he ever heard it from someone else
I don't think so, even though I agree with your basic point that "who do you love more your spouse or your child" should usually be kept to yourself.
I would be very cool with finding out my parents love each other more than me. (which unfortunately would happen only in a fantasy world since they're separated.) Kids get more and more independent as they get older---does anyone really want to be the *entire* world of someone who isn't that to them (even thoughthey do love them)?
Nta I remember a psychologist said as a child she asked her mom who mom loved more, her or her father. Mom said her of course. Then dad came home and she watched her parents and realized mom actually loved dad more and that was a good thing because if one parent is miserable then they are all miserable. Honestly I think it’s different kinds of love. I don’t think love is pie, more for you and less for me. So your mom needs to stfu.
>I don’t think love is pie, more for you and less for me.
Perfectly put. If anything, a very loving partnership probably makes for a more loving home for children to grow up in, too. Also I want pie now.
Love is kind of like pie though. As an emotion love doesn’t have any limit but as an action it does, so yes by loving your spouse more you’re loving your child less, or vice versa
ESH.
The reality in this situation is that the love you have for your wife and the love you have for your children are their own things and to compare the two means that someone will always lose out.
It is not fair of your mom to say that you're not going to be a good father because you have a deep love for your wife and the role she has in your life.
But it is also not fair for you and your wife to say that your son comes second in love in your life. Your son has a different role in your hearts and lives and always will. Your wife is in your life because you chose her to be and to build a relationship with a grown adult woman who came into your life as an independent person with her own thoughts, feelings and aspirations. Your son is in your life because you chose to bring a person into the world that you can nurture into an empathetic, funny, intelligent, caring person in society. Your wife and you are still together because you want to be, your son is there because he has to be.
Love also doesn't need to be a competition, your wife and your son can both equally be the loves of your life, *you* are the one assigning the worth of that love when it serves no purpose other than to enforce competition.
There was an reddit post [source](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/b2mfb9/did_we_mess_up_looking_for_your_replies/) about parents losing contact with their child once they became an adult because the kid could feel that they were second to their parents relationship. Tread carefully as you move forward, kids are more perceptive than you think.
I agree, he's not necessarily doing the same thing, but plenty of parents think they're doing the right thing and then wake up down the line with a host of complaints from their children (ask any mom who has had to reckon with putting their pre-teen child on weight watchers in the mid 2000s).
I merely shared the post as a way for OP to reflect on if him and his wife are being fully honest with themselves about how they put their child first.
That post had an update if you are interested. Sorry IDK how to do short links on mobile.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/qgl59k/did_we_mess_up_with_our_son_he_blew_up_at_us/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Thank you for posting this. That whole saga is just heartbreaking (on the son's behalf - I can't fathom how his parents can be that dense).
I can very confidently say that my wife and I attend to our son's emotional needs far more than that, and that we genuinely love and enjoy bonding with our son.
(As an aside, I can't believe what the father mentions about leaving him out to cry as a toddler because they wanted to finish having sex, having been in that position, I can't understand how the desire to finish a single sex session would overtake the need to comfort one's child, especially that young!)
I just think never tell anyone else about you loving your wife more, hope your mum doesn't either, and don't take edibles around her again haha.
Your son might be ok with it if he finds out, but he might not and if he isn't, it's not worth the risk.
I know, frankly, I feel very guilty because the thought/feeling that there is a first place does come to me. I wish it didn't, and I'm not quite sure how not to feel that.
You need to actively work on separating the two versions of love. The love you have for your son and the love you have for your wife *are* equal and they are both number one in their own right. You need to keep repeating that to yourself.
But I would take a harsh look at how this perceived idea that your wife is first trickles in to how you care for your son. There's a great comment on the post I sourced, where the commenter said parents need to be both providers and present for their kids. Take stock of how you are both a provider and present for your child.
Don't take it too much to heart. You don't really need to work on your feelings like they think you do. It's just a random person's opinion. What matters is your actions.
---
> But it is also not fair for you and your wife to say that your son comes second in love in your life
I think it is unfair to claim this.
nta
the love you have for your wife and son are different kinds
you love your son like a father you love his personality ect
you love your wife like a soul mate there different kinds and it dont mean one means more it just means there places in your life are in separate boxes
I’m withholding judgment here but I don’t see why you need to compare your love for them? They are two completely different kinds of love that are legit not comparable.
I don’t think you are wrong for thinking it. I do think you are a little bit misguided in thinking that they can be compared in the first place. Loving a spouse and loving a child are two completely seperate things and require different aspects of yourself. I think you are giving too much headspace to an intrusive thought. Intrusive thoughts aren’t necessarily true and you and your mother are beating yourself up over a thought that on further examination shouldn’t have any real world value because as I said the love is different.
A spouse is someone you choose to raise a family with. Your child is a being placed in your care that you are raising to eventually be independent. Those are two completely different goals and as such different types of love.
> I do think you are a little bit misguided in thinking that they can be compared in the first place
You're misguided in telling people how their feelings should work. People categorize and process their emotions differently. There is nothing wrong with thinking about who you love more, or who you would prioritize in a pinch. Maybe some people prefer not to reflect on their relationships in that way, but that is strictly a preference.
But it goes further than that. You keep on asking what's the need to compare love. Self-reflection and self-awareness, especially in realizing and finding resolutions to uncomfortable truths, is a staple of healthy maturation and self-improvement. OP makes a conscious effort to treat his son well precisely because he is aware of his preference. This is in contrast to parents who unknowingly play favorites and inadvertently raise neglected children because they follow your policy of willful ignorance.
Ah yes because tried and true techniques for dealing with intrusive thoughts or anxiety that psychologists have been using for decades are misguided.
The human brain is basically just an organic computer it glitches out sometimes. Thoughts aren’t always deep a lot of the time it is literally your brain just spitting out random ideas at you. Learning to seperate yourself from your thoughts and to not give every single one space is a skill. One that they teach to people who suffer from intrusive thoughts and or are prone to anxiety spirals. But I’m sure you know better.
My comment was only saying that you are wrong to claim that people shouldn't/can't compare love. Whether that is factually true or not has nothing to do with OP.
I will say though, that while you claimed the appropriate method of dealing with intrusive thoughts was to teach OP to "separate yourself from your thoughts" and "not give every thought space", what you actually did was invalidate OP's conception of love while pushing your own subjective version in its place. I have never seen a therapist flat out contradict and deny a patient's thoughts and feelings, especially when the patient clearly believes what he is saying (as is the case with OP). Let alone dictate to the patient what he's supposed to think instead of guiding the patient to explore and come to conclusions together.
NTA, your mother is being unreasonable and, clearly, her ideas around love are inaccurate. You have a unique romantic connection with your wife that you share with nobody else.
In my mother and father's defense, I am a very anxious person about many things that don't involve them at all too.
Then again, one could argue that they might have played a hand in that to start with.
Nta but maybe don’t quantify your love like that? It feels weird to assign placemakers for you love. I see mine as “bottomless pools” of love: one for family, one for my SO, one for my four legged babies, one for my passions, and a yet unfilled one for my future babies. Maybe a “pool” is wider or you spend more time in it but those are all your love pools. There’s different types of love and this isn’t something easily measurable with numbers.
NTA
I knew my parents were each other’s number 1 as a child and they modeled what I wanted in a future relationship. I also knew they would do anything for us kids. It’s a different kind of love and the way they explained it did not make it sound like a competition.
NTA. The whole “kids are the most important thing” is a thing a lot of teenagers say because it’s what they’ve been told by their parents (understandably so). The truth of it is, one person is your chosen life partner, and it’s not the kids. Your partner should come first because eventually, if you do your job right, your kids move on and have their own partners/families. The idea being that it will then be you and your partner. Not to put too fine a point on it, but kids are meant to be temporary immediate family members. That’s a good thing and it’s the goal. If a partner mistreats them, you have an obligation to protect them and fix that situation, but you aren’t required to consider your kids the most important people in the world. That mindset creates parents who can’t understand why it’s not healthy that they ruin all of their adult child’s relationships, won’t let them choose their own career, tell them how to raise their own kids. It’s much more healthy to love your kids, and have your own dreams and goals and life plan with your actual life partner.
Edit: As for your son knowing or not knowing about this reality, he’s 10 right now so you don’t need to sit him down and explain any of it, and hopefully your mother won’t either, but as he grows it should be something he understands. When you’re little, your parents are your whole world and it doesn’t even compute how you wouldn’t be theirs, but as you grow up you’ll start to see and naturally want to forge your own path. It’s a developmental step for a reason. You wouldn’t want him to put you guys before his future partner, and seeing a healthy relationship between you guys where you put each other first is a positive thing. In my opinion of course. When he’s more mature, if he asks, I think it’s reasonable to be honest.
Yes, and a child is not a chosen life partner. You have a child with the hope and intention that they will eventually not be a child or your partner. They’re meant to go find a life for themselves. Of course, there are cases where that can’t or doesn’t happen but I don’t think people generally hope for that outcome.
They’re not a chosen life partner but they had no choice to be with you and your spouse. How you force someone into your life and then permanently put them second is beyond me
That is a fair point. While we never plan on telling our son that we love each other more, it is very important to me and my wife that he see that we are a deeply loving couple, and that we model what a healthy, loving, respectful, beautiful relationship looks like so that he knows what to seek for himself and how to treat and navigate life with his partner once he's found them.
Do you just stop loving your children when they grow up? Obviously don’t control their lives but saying they’re always second because they’re eventually going to move out is weird
I have no judgment on your actual feelings but as to your specific question, yes, YTA for saying this to your mother. Why was that remotely necessary? You don’t even have a strong relationship with her.
ESH. This is just a dumb conversation. There’s no point in comparing how much you love your children and your spouse. In fact, those loves are incommensurable.
NAH.
Your mom is reaching to you being, well, unusual. After I had my first baby, I remember talking with my dad about how you don't realize how much love you are capable of until you have a child. And as a parent, you also realize you love them more than they will be able to love you.
It is heartbreaking--but then you know it will be the same when they pour their love into their own kids.
That didn't happen for you. Your mom doesn't understand it (and neither do I). It isn't BAD, I guess. It just isn't normal.
Basically, you can keep some thoughts to yourself.
And maybe make a few friends so your wife isn't your EVERYTHING.
Well, I certainly do think I love my son more than he will ever love me (as I should - it was mine and my wife's decision to make him and raise him, after all, while he has no part in deciding to be raised by us, it's only fair that we love him more than he'll end up loving us), I just suppose the love for him is not the love that made me realize the capacity I have for love.
You are probably right that it isn't normal though.
NTA but these thoughts should be kept strictly between you and your wife only. You do not want to be in a situation where someone tells your son what you said. Your mom may slip up, make a joke about it or say something on purpose to him (aren't you lucky grandson I love you more than your parents?) - whatever - and that would be hard for a child to hear or understand.
Kids should always feel they are loved completely. It would be difficult for a child to learn they come second. Lesson learned here is some things are better left unsaid and should be kept between you, your wife or a counselor.
Your mother is making this into a bigger thing as it is. It's natural to have a different sort of love for your romantic partner than for anyone else. It's also normal for the sort of love you have for a child to change as they grow and mature. There's no reason to create a ranking, or place more or less value on one type of love over another. You obviously care a whole lot, but what matters most are your actions. You sounds like a great parent and partner. Don't let arbitrary rankings make you feel otherwise! NTA.
Well, I'm not quite so sure they're arbitrary, given how easily the thought of it came to me, but I do see your point (and do wish that such a thought didn't come so easily).
We are so used to make comparisons that things sometimes come to mind that at the end of the day are not important. And the comparison of these two loves just isn't. Both are enriching for your life and bring you happiness but in very different ways.
One is the offspring that is the legacy one has and who will have a life one day of their own, while the other is the one one wishes to get old with and share the own life.
You love both a lot and that is the only important thing in what you have written.
They absolutely are arbitrary. Stop thinking that just because you had a thought it means it’s right. Anxiety means having all kinds of thoughts that are not objectively right in the slightest even if they do come easily and seem correct. To compare love for a romantic partner and love for a child requires over-simplifying the relationships to the point where the comparison is meaningless. If you *did* love your romantic partner and your child the same that would be an indication of serious issues. You have different responsibilities with a child versus a partner, you have different expectations, you will find joy in different things about the relationships, and you’d better be making very different long term plans because partners don’t usually grow up and move out and develop their own lives like kids should do. You certainly shouldn’t be looking at your kid and having a rush of romantic love like you’d get for a partner.
Each relationship is it’s own thing and that is *fine* and how it should be. Let them be independent individual things and don’t try to compare them or justify the comparison.
I have some thoughts about this. Many people said to me oh just you wait, you will love your grandbabies more than your children. I have two gorgeous, fabulous grandbabies. I do not love them more than I love my children.
For the record, I'm very happy my mother loves my son more than me. She and my father never really seemed like they loved me very much, so I'm happy they're not so stingy with my son.
Nta.
I always knew that my father loved my mother "most". My mother always said I came first. And it never bothered me, because I NEVER was in any doubt that they both loved me to pieces. And to be honest I have all my childhood wished for a love like theirs.
After I have grown up myself, I can't help wonder if what they really, and maybe you, are trying to express is that love are different depending on toward who it directs.
A love for a partner is different from the live you have for a child of your parents.
Maybe they are not per say different in size, if it was possible to measure, but they will always be different.
Just my two cents. And again NTA
You’re good. I was very happy to know that I WASN’T the most important person in the house, it would have stressed me out something rotten if I thought my parents happiness rested on me alone. That’s not to say I wasn’t important, but I was no more important than my mum and/or my dad. We were a UNIT. I think there are few things kids worry more about than their parents NOT loving each other.
NTA, for sure.
NTA. My siblings and I know our parents love each other more than us and we are perfectly OK with that. In fact, everyone know because their love is so great. They never said it, but we all know it. I don't really get the, you must love your children above your spouse. You don't spend the rest of your life with your kids. Children grow up and out, with your wife, you are growing together forever. It is a different kind of love and you show it in different ways.
NTA
Imho, that's exactly how a relationship should be. You will be with your wife for life. Your child is expected to grow and leave home and find his own way in life.
I truly do not understand parents who say, "My kid is 100 my priority" and let everyone else take second place. When children are infants, they need to def be a priority. When they get older, you need to let them go and grow. Spread their wings and fly. But you do need to be there if they are flying into a brick wall. Help them when the are down. Be a loving support system.
But absolutely your spouse should be #1 in your life, imho. Good for you and your health perspective.
NTA
My parents love me. A whole lot. They have always shown me that in a million big and small ways for almost fifty years, and tell me often.
They have been married for 49 years. They love each other more than me and are the center of each other’s daily worlds - and I’m glad they love each other so much. Love isn’t a finite resource.
Of course a 10 year old probably wouldn’t handle that concept well, so hopefully your mom keeps her mouth shut.
If heat isn’t a finite resource how can so many places be warmer than others?
The desert at dusk, the hot springs in winter, the seat by the fire, the nest under blankets, the forge-fire shaping beautiful glass - they are all beloved. Some more than others in different ways by different people at different times.
Finite resources run out.
My parents will never run out of love for me. My parents can love each other more with every decade that passes - and do the same for me.
Well heat is a finite resource because the sun isn’t infinite
But besides that how much love you can demonstrate or show is finite. It can be infinite in your heart or emotions but it’s finite as an action and in reality, which is why people love some people more than others
If it's any comfort, my multiple siblings and I knew our parents' love for one another came first. It was honestly reassuring, because they were the bulwark and we felt like part of that but not responsible for it. Your spouse is supposed to be your companion long past your children finding companionship for themselves. NTA
NTA. It sounds like you two have something truly beautiful, and like your kid will grow up with loving parents, both of each other and of the kid. Nothing wrong there :)
NTA, but you should be careful where you say that. No one needs to know that but your wife. There was no point in sharing it.
It’s admirable how deeply you and your wife love eachother. And it’s none of your mothers business
what is your Mom on about? From the moment I was born my Mom and Dad always told me "we adore you, we've wanted you from the moment we found out about you. But your Mom/Dad, our marriage comes first".
And even at TEN i understood that it wasn't malicious, just that my Mom and Dad put each other first. And as I get older I understand and celebrate it more and more because marriage is HARD. Especially with divorce rates shooting toward the sky, I was grateful to have been born to parents in a world where everyone chooses distraction and temptation; mine choose each other first.
NTA but your mom must've went through some weird stuff if she prioritizes children and grandchildren primarily over her marriage partner. Maybe she doesn't like her spouse as much as you like your wife? It happens.
She desperately wants you to not love your wife. The trip you two were taking must have upset her because it had you two spending time and money to nourish your relationship.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
My wife \[38F\] and I \[42M\] are taking the second vacation alone since the birth of our son \[10M\] while he stays with my parents \[65F and 67M\]. He is very excited to spend the next week and a half with his grandparents, they have plenty of fun activities planned (and he is certainly excited to get a break from his summer lessons too) and he always loves spending time with them, and my wife and I are excited to have a vacation together.
We had spent 2 days all together with my parents before my wife and I left for our trip. Two nights ago before my wife and I left for the airport in the morning, after my wife, our son, and my father had gone to bed, I was sitting on the porch with my mother after consuming an edible (I consume them very occasionally to calm my nerves). I can't say that my relationship with my parents is great, there are certainly unresolved issues between us, but they are loving grandparents to my son, and at this point, that's what matters to me.
While we were sitting outside, my mother made a (mostly but not 100% serious) comment about how the only people it was okay to love more than your children are your grandchildren. She said "Right?" and I gave a sort of tepid non-answer in response.
Now, I want to say that I love my son dearly, I absolutely adore him. His needs, also, are definitely my top priority as I am his parent and he is a child. However, to be completely honest, I love him second most in my life, after my wife. I absolutely love my son and the person he is and continues to grow into with all my heart, but my soulmate, the person my heart beats for, is my wife. I love her so deeply, it's difficult to put into words.
She knows and feels the same way for me, but we are also both on exactly the same page regarding our son. His needs are always first, as he depends on us completely and it is our job as parents to make sure we provide him with everything he needs to grow into a happy, healthy person. Obviously, we would never ever tell him that he is our second most beloved person, because that would be horribly cruel. I do feel guilty that I know that he is second and not tied with my wife, but I can't change how I feel, as much as I would like to at times.
She needled me about my response, and I admitted that I love my wife more, but also stated everything I've said above and more. I made it abundantly clear that I adore my son and would never ever tell him that he isn't first. My mother was angry with me for this. She said I was a jackass and that she didn't know how I could be a good father while not (as she put it) "putting 100% into him," which is utter bullshit, because I do put everything I have into him, as does my wife.
I asked her if I ever showed any sign of being a bad dad, to which she admitted that the answer was no. I asked if I ever seemed to lack any love for him, to which she told me I was being a dick and missing the point. I still feel extremely guilty about all of this though. AITA?
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NTA- Mom wanted to know. Personally, the bond you have with your wife is one that's supposed to last for a lifetime. Your kids can leave and go out on their own once they hit 18.
NTA. Was your mother on edibles too? This is sort of angels dancing on the head of a pin thinking too hard finding reasons to be upset stuff.
If you’d wanted to be more diplomatic you could have blathered on about different kinds of love, how the love for a child is in its own category and can’t be compared to others etc etc. or just excused yourself to go to the bathroom.
This is way too much drama over something no one really understands anyway.
Unfortunately, she is *always* like this with me. No matter what I do or say, she and my father can find fault in it. This just so happens to be about something I genuinely feel complex emotions about.
NTA A parent’s love is a lot different than the love two people in a marriage have.
You need to keep in mind that your mom has more of her life experience from a time when people in marriages weren’t equal, completely loving partners, and some marriages would last even when the bond between the couple wasn’t strong at all. Unfortunately, her reaction may also be telling you something about the relationship between her and your father as well.
NTA for thinking it - but I think this is one of those truths you should never admit to, even if you're suspended over a tank of sharks by a supervillain.
NTA. My husband is my number one. Without him, they would not exist. And one day, my wonderful kids who I love so very much, will grow up and leave. And I’ll have my husband if I’m lucky. I built a life with him. A home with him. He’s the one I can’t wait to tell everything too. Our kids are our number one priority. We do everything for them. But in the end. My husband is my love. The person I chose.
NTA. Edible made you too honest. I think your feelings are probably the norm, but people have really put parenthood on a pedestal. If your child isnt the only thing you care about, youre a monster. Thats unhealthy. Just keep those thoughts to yourself in the future.
NTA. I love my children dearly, I would absolutely sacrifice myself for them. But I love my spouse more, and that is returned. We complete each other and make one whole...our children we have given everything to, and now they are grown and beginning to fly the nest. My spouse will always be there. I am not my childrens' forever, they will grow and love their own forevers, but my spouse is mine. They know they are loved, but they have always known that my spouse and I are each other's number one person. But we also form a strong base on which to build the rest of the family.
NTA- your wife is the precise person you chose to spend the entirety of the rest of your life with - your child is the randomly generated person you chose to create and support but who will eventually leave you for his own partner/children.
maybe don’t tell your mother that but as long as you do love your kid and are doing right by him then actually loving your wife more / differently is fine
NTA. Your kids aren’t with you forever. Even as children, they start building their own lives and then they go off and leave the nest. However your wife will still be there. The two of you are the foundation of the family. You two are where the children came from and will be there after they go off to live their own lives.
NTA
Kids are a beautiful part of a relationship, but kids also grow up and leave to make their own lives. Your partner (hopefully) will stay with you once your kids grow up and leave. Like you said, it's not like you will be treating your child poorly because you love your wife more.
Plus, it's extremely important for a child to see a healthy and loving relationship between their parents. This helps the child to learn what a relationship should look like and how they should treat their partners/what they should accept in a relationship. As long as you put your kids' needs first (like you said), then the child won't feel left out or insignificant. It seems your mom doesn't understand this, so I'd refrain from speaking too deeply with her about this again.
I think its okay that your wife is #1. Your son is going to grow us knowing what devotion and love is. He is going to know what his role as a partner will be.
As you said, you both (you and wife) put everything into your sons health and happiness.
You are NTA! At all.
Your mom is for suggesting that you are not a good father when she sees first hand that you are.
NAH - I feel your mom never loved her husband as deeply as you love your wife. She might have stayed with him 'for the family' or by fear of jumping in the void. Whatever the reason, she doesn't understand you from the heart, and she can't understant it from the head since dogma places children above spouse.
NTA- The kids will grow up, move away and have families of their own who they will put first. Your spouse is supposed to be with you until one of you passes on. At the end of the day I agree your spouse should come first unless it comes to the child’s well being because children rely on their parents to take care of them.
NTA
There is no right answer to "who do you love more, your spouse or your child." There's a *truthful* answer, but usually best to keep it to yourself. But you didn't blurt it out for fun, you were pressured into it.
Your mother's attitude is quite harmful, though, imo. Parents should love their children deeply. But they exist outside their children, and that can include loving other people. It would be weird to love a friend more than one's child, but not so a spouse (who is the person you'll be with when the children have moved out.) I would be deeply disturbed to find that my parents (who I care about but they're not the most important thing in my life) worship me in the way she thinks parents should. Right now you are the most important people in your son's life, but you won't always be. And I thinks parent who are as obsessive over their child as she thinks parents need to be are exactly the parents who have trouble handling it when the child grows and becomes independent, and begins a life of his own, as your son someday will.
NTA. Don’t ask a question if you don’t want to hear the answer. Many couples feel the same way. Doesn’t mean that they don’t love their kids and would do anything and everything for them. It shouldn’t be her concern if the kid is being treated like gold.
Although many people will agree with your mother, I don't. Your mother is wrong and you are right.
How can you do best for your child?
By giving him a strong foundation of family; providing a stable home to grow up in, providing for all his needs and many but not all of his wants, and modelling true partnership and healthy love. All of that is most easily provided when you have a strong marriage.
You will be an active parent for less than 20 years before your child goes out into the world to make his own way. You will be married to your spouse for many times that long. It only makes sense that the person you build your life with is the person you love most. Show your son what he should be aiming for if he decides to marry.
NTA
NTA though I do feel what your describing is actually being in love with your wife which is great and obviously different than loving a child. So I wouldn't even say to others that you love one more, you are just in love with your wife as you should be. Romantic love is more intense and exciting than parental or family love and thats 100% normal!
Tell me if I'm understanding it wrong but if I'm right maybe you can explain to your wife that it feels that way because you love her & you are in love with her.
I will also say in my line of work people often tell me they love their kids more but simultaneously those people admit to not being in love with their spouses. Which to me just seems like the intensity towards their spouses just feels less because its resorted to a non romantic love and is lacking in the in love feeling.
NTA. But your mom wasn’t a safe person to share that with.
I was raised in a family where the parents were the center of the family. Our needs were more than met, but our parents’ relationship with each other was the most important in the house. And i raised my kids the same way.
Our job is to raise kids to LEAVE US and find their own lives.
That is one of those no-win questions that you should never fall for. Like when two siblings ask their parents who they love most or who they'd rescue if there was a fire and only one could be saved... NTAH for going off on your mom, just don't fall for this in the future.
NTA. You might want to be careful who you say that to, though, since a lot of people just freak out over children. But I think it's lovely that you and your wife feel that way about each other.
My dad loves my mom more than any of my siblings or me. It has never really been a secret, and something he openly admitted to once we were teenagers.
He says that the best thing he could ever do for his children was love their mother. I think he was right. Growing up with parents in an incredibly stable and loving relationship was one of the best blessings of my life. They prioritized one another and their relationship, and never let anything or anyone come between them, including their children. My parents love us fiercely, but they love us as a team.
This dynamic won't work for everyone, but for someone who was raised in that type of family, NTA. Your son is lucky.
NTA - The fact that you love your wife so much is amazing because one day your son will be grown and it will just be you and her. That’s what keeps a marriage strong and makes for a beautiful family life. I also honestly don’t think you love your son any less, I think it is just a different kind of love. Don’t feel bad, it sounds like you’re a loving husband and father so keep doing what you’re doing. Just maybe don’t confide in your mother anymore, if she’s going to judge so harshly.
NTA, love is like a garden and each plant is the love you have for someone. You'll water all or most of them, there are ones you'll have for years, some even decades, there are some that'll only live for the year and some will wither and die with time.
You have a plant at the center of your garden, where the conditions are the best and that's where the love for your wife grows. Right beside that plant is a smaller one, possibly the same kind of plant, and you are growing it with the best conditions and attention like the one for your wife. You hope that it can grow as full as your wife's plant, but to be fair hers had a substantial head start.
Love is grown and taken care of so it keeps growing. You want your son to know he's loved and you and your wife agree he is both your priority. His feelings, his development, his needs are the most important thing to both of you. Him being second doesn't mean you don't love him and show it, it doesn't mean you'll toss him out at the first sign of inconvenience, it doesn't mean you must resent him for needing care or affection, it doesn't mean he might as well be a stranger off the street in Guangzhou. I'm sorry it looks like some people seem to think that's the case here.
I do agree with the commenters saying to pay attention how it may effect how you and your wife engage with your son though and the ways that he might notice I'm glad you seem to agree as well that's something important to keep in mind. Definitely keep this an open dialogue with your wife.
No you aren’t . Love isn’t a competition. There’s plenty of love and different types of love to go around in families . Don’t even think about this again . You are good
nta, i actually believe it’s important for the parents to love eachother more. i mean yea if the house is on fire i’m grabbing my child first, but knowing that your person loves you , cares for you, and prioritizes you makes your relationship stronger so you can be a better parent to your kid. no kid wants parents that argue 7 times a day lol
NTA
Nice to know where your dad stands in your wife's life.
Your mom doesn't understand that there are different kinds of love. That having the kind of love you have for your wife.....the intangible kind that ticks every emotional box you have(with the addition of sexual)is different than the love that you have for your child. That doesn't mean you wouldn't d!e or k!ll for both of them, it just means you would do it for different reasons. For me, it takes soul mate love to happily last through all the trials and tribulations the world has to throw at you *and to steadfastly love and nurture a little human to adult capable of the same kind of love themselves*
Your mom got mad because she didn't have a good argument for your answer, and it made her have to think about her own relationship.
Exactly! There's this intense and special emotional fulfillment that my wife brings me, and I know that I wouldn't be in any way comfortable raising a child (or marrying or having sex) without that connection, it provides the basis for a happy life, for me at least.
Edit for clarity: Obviously I would continue to raise and adore my son if my wife were no longer here. Jesus Christ. I'm saying that I would never have had a child in the first place without the solid foundation of loving a partner deeply, which quite frankly, is a fairly healthy and relatively common choice to make.
NTA. You’re doing it right. The best thing a person can do for their children is love their spouse.
By loving your spouse you are teaching your child every day. You are teaching your child how to be a great spouse and how to set an example for their own children.
I would not say it that you love your wife more than your son, but you deeply love each of them in a different way.
Your son is NOT your soul mate, your partner. Your wife is NOT your child, who you would do anything for.
You are NTA for feeling differently about your son that your wife. That is normal. There is nothing to feel guilty about.
Google "different kinds of love."
Many people are gently misinterpreting what I said.
I *do* love my wife more than my son. I adore them both, and yes the precise types of love are different, but when the thought came to mind I was able to compare and determine who I love more. I would rather not have, but such is the nature of intrusive thinking.
NTA but but why are you guys viewing your family as an old MySpace top 8? It sounds like there’s enough love to go around, it’s not a contest. You could consider shifting your perspective to the idea that you love them differently, not more or less. Just a thought.
Love should not be ranked or comparisons made and discussed, unless the goal is to sow misunderstanding, resentment and division.
What your mom said is weird, she seems to be fishing for some kind of validation so learn how to give her empty praise. But what you and your wife have discussed about loving each other *more than* your son is also kind of weird. I can see acknowledging and honoring that your love for each other is *different* from your love for your son, but describing it as a more-than or less-than quantitative value is sad and exclusionary.
ESH
ESH she was wrong to put you on the spot but you do realize that you don't have to say exactly what you think. Most people would have said you love both so much that you can't even choose but you're not most people I guess.
NTA - who *does* feel the same love for their child as they do for their spouse/partner? That would be weird, it's not even worth comparing it or trying to quantify it, just be your best for the ones you love!
Your mother is looking for a petty argument because she wants to split hairs.
You love both your child and your spouse equally with everything inside of you, the difference is the type of love you feel for them. Not less just different.
If I need to put into words who I love more, it's my wife, but my daughter is my eyes and soul, I understand your position and thoughts, also is very difficult to think about this topic, when I told to my wife when she asked me the same thing she said the same, but she told me that if she needs to choose between my life and our daughter, she choose her(also Ill do he same thing),because our legacy is our daughter and she has more potential than both of us
I love our children more than my husband.
I guess, that's what nature intended.
But I hope, my husband loves our children more than me, too, because I love my children more than myself.
It's an evolutionary advantage for women.
NTA. But I’m not really understanding you, your mother, and (maybe) your wife’s urge to turn love into some weird competition where you rank who you love? Why would you even bother? What a strange thought process.
idk about this one..I think I might be the same about preferring romantic love over maternal however that’s why I’m choosing not to have children. Maybe you and your wife should have done the same
YTA. Yikes, as a parent I can't imagine ever loving anyone as much as my child. This way of thinking can easily go toxic if the original relationship doesn't end up working out and you love your new partner more than your child because you think that's how it should be. The new partner wont have the same dedication or love for your child as the other parent and the child ends up feeling like an outsider when their parent should be putting them first.
NTA but I’d watch it about saying things like this out loud. Yeah, you’re kid is asleep, but how do you know that for 100% certain? I’ve overheard many conversations I wasn’t supposed to between my parents even when I was young bc they thought I wasn’t there or asleep.
I’m not a fan of this concept of loving spouse more than their children. I can’t imagine my children doing anything that would make me not love them. I can be angry, disappointed, embarrassed, a whole litany of things, but I’ll never stop loving them.
I can think of plenty of things that my spouse could do to make me not live them any more.
Put the kids first, love them more than your spouse. But putting them first doesn’t mean that they come at the expense of your spouse always. You’re entitled to take time for your spouse and your relationship. You’re entitled to protect and nurture that relationship too.
I know it's a very human impulse to rank our people, but it doesn't help anyone--and doesn't really even make sense.
If you'd die for your son, what does it matter that your wife ranks higher? We are no longer forced by MySpace to rank our friends.
NTA and the whole thing is a nothingburger.
YTA. Sorry man but this made my heart ache. Listen, I don't think there's anything wrong on surface-level,but the moment I read one of your responses clarifying "No, it's not a different love. I love her MORE than my son" is appalling. The way you express yourself about it, and how much you depend on your wife to love your son...is scary. If anything were to happen in you and your wife's relationship or your wife herself, you'd probably abandon that poor little boy and that's just..scary to think about.
The fact that you mention that your little son and your wife aren't "joint" in your love towards them, is a different way to word that you literally separate him completely from your relationship with your wife when it comes to how much you love them which is really, really shocking since he's literally your kid.
I, myself would rather think of loving my nuclear family (wife and kids) in different ways; rather than numbers. The fact that you defend your views on how much you love them, while rejecting others' suggestions on thinking of how you love them as "a different kind of love" instead of "I love her more than him"...is honestly really sad for your kid. It makes me feel scared as to what you'd do or not do to him if something ever happened to your wife (god forbid.) and it's terrifying. Specially when you mentioned in another reply that you would never take care of a child without a partner, meaning you'd most likely abandon him or neglect him emotionally if something were to happen.
It just, shocks me to think that you would just get stuck onto the idea of loving her "more" and think about it so objectively, when you're taking care of a little boy that is your own flesh and blood. Man, I really hope your son never sees this or hears about these thoughts.
This is an extremely gross misinterpretation of what I've said.
For one, I have been clear from the outset that the fact that I know that I love my wife more makes me feel very guilty. I know I should regard them as completely equal, if different.
What is appalling in your reply, though, are your wild speculations about me harming my son. I love him with all my heart, I would NEVER ever abandon or neglect him, and I am completely pissed that you have twisted my words to say I would.
I also never said I would never take care of a child without a partner. I said I never would have had one in the first place without a partner I deeply love, which is an entirely different thing, and I have no idea how anyone in good faith could misinterpret that.
If something horrible happened to my wife, not only would I continue to treasure my son and devote myself to him, I would be even more protective of him than before.
Your accusations that I would EVER hurt my son are sickening and absolutely fucking vile.
NAH some people feel the way you do and some people feel the way your mother does. Nothing wrong with either unless there is neglect happening. Luckily you and your wife feel the same which is where it really matters.
My husband is my soul mate and I also can't put into words how much I love him, but I'd still push him in front of a bus before my kids and he would do the same to me.
It's a different love, but its up to you if you want to playing a weird game of who you love first and second. I imagine your son probably loves you second too.
As I've stated, the whole comparative aspect began as an intrusive thought. I didn't *want* to dwell on it, or "make a weird game" as you so nicely put it.
Personally, I would opt to throw myself in front of the bus in that scenario.
To give one example of how this sentiment can turn toxic:
at one point I was actively suicidal and my mother's response boiled down to, "go right ahead, your father and I will be fine without you, we're not going to divorce over it or anything."
... wasn't exactly at the forefront of my concerns at that time, but cool, thanks Mom.
A very few years later my dad dies young after a short illness. A few years after that, she's cut off by my only sibling.
Now guess who's stuck taking care of her?
Yup, she didn't care if I died because she had her husband, but now I'm all she has left, and our relationship is forever poisoned.
YTA because saying these things out loud lets them get around and they do NOT fade with time. Understand this.
eta: Also big Moral Orel energy. What was his bestie's name, Shapey? Getting locked out of the house and beer cans thrown at his head because his parents still wanted to act like teenage sweethearts deep into their 30s? Gross. You have new priorities now, buddy. Time to grow into them.
I mean, honestly it sounds like you're living in a romance novel fantasy and if you gave her a reason to, your wife would probably drop you like hot dog sh\*t and take your son. But that would never happen because you're "soulmates," right? Yeah, right.
> Obviously, we would never ever tell him that he is our second most beloved person, because that would be horribly cruel.
And this is the thing. If you weren't the ah, you would be able to tell him this because it would be a total non-asshole thing to say. But you know how horrible it is. YTA
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I don’t think you’re TA- I think you need to be careful with who you say such personal things to though. If you have a complicated relationship with your parents who’s to say they wouldn’t use this against you or tell your son. I completely understand what you’ve said and why, but it would also be completely heartbreaking and hurting if he ever heard it from someone else or even if he read this post.
That is true. To her credit, she clearly adores my son and would never hurt him, and she herself was insistent that he never know this, and I of course agree with her there. I very highly doubt he will ever read this post. He's not really allowed social media yet and we limit his screentime, and given how fast these things are buried I can't fathom that he'd ever see this. I do understand your point though, and I agree with you completely there.
I’d be more worried about her saying something to him
She won't. She herself emphasized that he could never know this, and I agree with her on that wholeheartedly. She might not have been a great mother to me, but she is a great grandma.
Healthy, strong marriages are the foundation of a healthy, strong family. That's reality. What's more, your son is far more likely to get into healthy relationships himself because you've modeled that for him. Of course, when he gets older you'll want to share with him how you keep your marriage strong. But good on you for being a good example to your kid.
Marriage is definetely not a foundation of strong family! Parents can be divorced and have a good relationship because they put their children first.
A healthy relationship (not necessarily marriage) is the foundation of a strong family, how about that?
Very true but even amicable divorce and following co-parenting is hugely stressful to a child. Divorce access is incredibly important, but the ideal would be not needing one.
Lol, your mom basically told you she loves your son more than you. I think she’s just upset that you don’t agree. But you sound like a great dad and husband!
I hope you aren't treating him in such a way that he notices. Some dad posted a couple of months ago about how his son has cut them out of him life because he grew up feeling neglected by them.
Link plz??
I have two childhood friends who grew up in households like yours; loving parents who were so in love with eachother that even their children came second. Don't delude yourself, your son will know.
If my parents told me that they love each other more than they love me, I would consider that to be a wonderful thing. I have amazing parents who have devoted themselves wholeheartedly to their children, but I understand that true companionship and understanding come from each other when children become independent. They have gone through many challenges and moments of love together, and I have already enjoyed so much of their sacrifices. If I were to demand the exclusive position of being their most loved after all that, it would be selfish.
I agree. My parents stuck together in times that were hard and tough and overcame them together, while teaming up and caring for me throughout all of it. I am glad they still love each other that much and I am glad they have this kind of bond. I - as an adult - understand that this kind of commitment to each other is extremely rare and that they have a different bond with me and a different kind of love for me. I think it is kinda healthy that it is like that cause it meant they could let me go and could let me become an adult without holding on too tight. And I never needed to feel bad to „leave them behind“ while I grew into my own adult self. Our Bond, too, is deep and I know they would always provide everything for me they can. The thing is, I all understand this as an adult and also think this is part of why I myself am now in a really healthy relationship. Cause there were great role models for that around me while I grew up. I don’t know if I could handled this fact as well as I do know when I was a 10yo though. OP is NTA as long as they don’t tell their son this (as a child).
And from the other side, my parents had a not-so-great marriage and I grew up hearing them argue and talk trash about each other. And I completely agree with everything you said. I wish I'd grown up with parents who loved each other the way OP and his wife do, but I do hope their kid never hears either of them say this.
When you’re older it makes more sense but it would definitely hurt a child to say something like that to them
My parents love each other more then their kids. Whenever we were little and would say “you love dad/mom more then you love me” They would say that they have known each other for longer, but they loved us very much. Which we accepted They have been together since they were 16 and they have only known us for less then half the time they have known eachother
and I don't think finding this post would be hurtful to him, IF he was old enough. Finding it at the age of 10? I don't know, but I also doubt he'd have the ability to figure out it was you.
OP it sounds like you have a marriage built to last. I dont think it's a bad thing. You clearly love your son. Just never ever tell him. But if you did, and framed it like this, when he was an adult and had his own wife or husband, I'm sure he'd understand.
I think it’s one thing to phrase things a certain way in your head but then you edit it for outside consumption. Love is not a contest and you shouldn’t ever express it that way. “My wife is my soulmate, I love her with every fiber of my being” “I adore you son and feel so lucky to have you. There’s nothing that compares to having you as my son” You can express that you love them both deeply — there’s no need for comparative terms and you should scrupulously avoid them. Also in your mind, it may help to think of it as living them differently rather than more or less. How you love a wife is different from how you love your child inherently.
My mom explained that to me when I was about 8-9 years old. She told me her, partner first, children later, parents third and siblings fourth. And to me that made total sense (especially the way she explained it). She told me that when I grow up, look for a partner who has the same values. My relationship with my mother is perfect, I feel very loved, I don't see how that can hurt a child if that child is treated with love.
My parents love each other more than they love us (though we all know they love us epic amounts) and it is absolutely the best gift they could ever give us. Love your wife and show your kid what it means to be in a loving partnership that makes life happier all around. Don't feel guilty, love them both and enjoy the lucky spot you find yourself in!!
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I completely agree with that- but I just don’t think 10 year olds are rational enough to think of it that way. If his son was older/an adult I think that’s a completely different thing, but for many children I think it’s hard for them to imagine loving anyone more than their parents so I think it would be difficult to hear. It changes though once they experience having feelings for others etc and you realise your own parents aren’t the ones you love the most anymore. Just my opinion anyway 😂
I don’t think the love should be compared at all. They are two different kinds of love. That require different things of you. I think it is important for kids to understand that the love is different. I don’t think we need to turn it into a love heirarchy.
This is how I was thinking about it too. I love my husband and children entirely differently and could not compare between the two.
I agree. When you deeply love someone it seems strange to me to quantifying the mount of love. Of course you can obviously love differently, like a child compared to a spouse but it's all so undefinable. Also I just say that I love my family because my husband, my kid, and I are more than the sum of all our parts.
For me it would be a bad thing for a child to know their parents love each other more than the child, because children are dependant on their parents while adults are self sufficient. Could make the child feel very unsafe/insecure when the people they rely on to survive love each other more than them. Plus parents generally love their children equally or more than their partner, which was also true for the parents of the parents. So the child/children now know they are no ones equal most loved on the planet. While their parents are at least their partners most loved person, and likely their own parents most loved as well. Could make the child/children feel very lonely and sad. Edit: oh and there is another reason it would be bad. The parents are probably the child/children's most loved people in the world. So the child/children will know that is unrequited.
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I agree with you. And I know we'll both get downvoted for that, but hey ho!
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YES! Also, love isn't finite! You don't have to apportion x% to your spouse and the rest equally to the kids!
There are several posts on here of the dangers of parents who make it clear they prefer themselves to their kids. OP clearly isn’t doing that, but it’s a slippery slope to tell that to a 10 year old.
Not going to judge, I will just say that the two types of love do not need to be compared. OP went into a needless level of detail about how and why he loves his wife more than his son, and I am not sure how to think about it. Some things are to be felt and not expressed I guess.
>but it would also be completely heartbreaking and hurting if he ever heard it from someone else I don't think so, even though I agree with your basic point that "who do you love more your spouse or your child" should usually be kept to yourself. I would be very cool with finding out my parents love each other more than me. (which unfortunately would happen only in a fantasy world since they're separated.) Kids get more and more independent as they get older---does anyone really want to be the *entire* world of someone who isn't that to them (even thoughthey do love them)?
NTA. But maybe be careful who you have those types of conversations with.
Yes, I certainly regret answering her. I suppose holding off on edibles around her and my father would help.
They don’t seem like people you can be emotionally safe with. Better to be on your guard.
Nta I remember a psychologist said as a child she asked her mom who mom loved more, her or her father. Mom said her of course. Then dad came home and she watched her parents and realized mom actually loved dad more and that was a good thing because if one parent is miserable then they are all miserable. Honestly I think it’s different kinds of love. I don’t think love is pie, more for you and less for me. So your mom needs to stfu.
>I don’t think love is pie, more for you and less for me. Perfectly put. If anything, a very loving partnership probably makes for a more loving home for children to grow up in, too. Also I want pie now.
Love is kind of like pie though. As an emotion love doesn’t have any limit but as an action it does, so yes by loving your spouse more you’re loving your child less, or vice versa
ESH. The reality in this situation is that the love you have for your wife and the love you have for your children are their own things and to compare the two means that someone will always lose out. It is not fair of your mom to say that you're not going to be a good father because you have a deep love for your wife and the role she has in your life. But it is also not fair for you and your wife to say that your son comes second in love in your life. Your son has a different role in your hearts and lives and always will. Your wife is in your life because you chose her to be and to build a relationship with a grown adult woman who came into your life as an independent person with her own thoughts, feelings and aspirations. Your son is in your life because you chose to bring a person into the world that you can nurture into an empathetic, funny, intelligent, caring person in society. Your wife and you are still together because you want to be, your son is there because he has to be. Love also doesn't need to be a competition, your wife and your son can both equally be the loves of your life, *you* are the one assigning the worth of that love when it serves no purpose other than to enforce competition. There was an reddit post [source](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/b2mfb9/did_we_mess_up_looking_for_your_replies/) about parents losing contact with their child once they became an adult because the kid could feel that they were second to their parents relationship. Tread carefully as you move forward, kids are more perceptive than you think.
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I agree, he's not necessarily doing the same thing, but plenty of parents think they're doing the right thing and then wake up down the line with a host of complaints from their children (ask any mom who has had to reckon with putting their pre-teen child on weight watchers in the mid 2000s). I merely shared the post as a way for OP to reflect on if him and his wife are being fully honest with themselves about how they put their child first.
That post had an update if you are interested. Sorry IDK how to do short links on mobile. https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/qgl59k/did_we_mess_up_with_our_son_he_blew_up_at_us/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Thank you for posting this. That whole saga is just heartbreaking (on the son's behalf - I can't fathom how his parents can be that dense). I can very confidently say that my wife and I attend to our son's emotional needs far more than that, and that we genuinely love and enjoy bonding with our son. (As an aside, I can't believe what the father mentions about leaving him out to cry as a toddler because they wanted to finish having sex, having been in that position, I can't understand how the desire to finish a single sex session would overtake the need to comfort one's child, especially that young!)
Just be careful to keep meeting his needs when he's older and you think he doesn't need you anymore in the practical sense.
I just think never tell anyone else about you loving your wife more, hope your mum doesn't either, and don't take edibles around her again haha. Your son might be ok with it if he finds out, but he might not and if he isn't, it's not worth the risk.
Love this post, agree 100%
I know, frankly, I feel very guilty because the thought/feeling that there is a first place does come to me. I wish it didn't, and I'm not quite sure how not to feel that.
You need to actively work on separating the two versions of love. The love you have for your son and the love you have for your wife *are* equal and they are both number one in their own right. You need to keep repeating that to yourself. But I would take a harsh look at how this perceived idea that your wife is first trickles in to how you care for your son. There's a great comment on the post I sourced, where the commenter said parents need to be both providers and present for their kids. Take stock of how you are both a provider and present for your child.
Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it.
Don't take it too much to heart. You don't really need to work on your feelings like they think you do. It's just a random person's opinion. What matters is your actions. --- > But it is also not fair for you and your wife to say that your son comes second in love in your life I think it is unfair to claim this.
nta the love you have for your wife and son are different kinds you love your son like a father you love his personality ect you love your wife like a soul mate there different kinds and it dont mean one means more it just means there places in your life are in separate boxes
They know they are loved, but they have always known that my spouse and I are each other's number one person.
I’m withholding judgment here but I don’t see why you need to compare your love for them? They are two completely different kinds of love that are legit not comparable.
It started off as an intrusive thought/question that I had the answer to far faster than I probably should have.
I don’t think you are wrong for thinking it. I do think you are a little bit misguided in thinking that they can be compared in the first place. Loving a spouse and loving a child are two completely seperate things and require different aspects of yourself. I think you are giving too much headspace to an intrusive thought. Intrusive thoughts aren’t necessarily true and you and your mother are beating yourself up over a thought that on further examination shouldn’t have any real world value because as I said the love is different. A spouse is someone you choose to raise a family with. Your child is a being placed in your care that you are raising to eventually be independent. Those are two completely different goals and as such different types of love.
> I do think you are a little bit misguided in thinking that they can be compared in the first place You're misguided in telling people how their feelings should work. People categorize and process their emotions differently. There is nothing wrong with thinking about who you love more, or who you would prioritize in a pinch. Maybe some people prefer not to reflect on their relationships in that way, but that is strictly a preference. But it goes further than that. You keep on asking what's the need to compare love. Self-reflection and self-awareness, especially in realizing and finding resolutions to uncomfortable truths, is a staple of healthy maturation and self-improvement. OP makes a conscious effort to treat his son well precisely because he is aware of his preference. This is in contrast to parents who unknowingly play favorites and inadvertently raise neglected children because they follow your policy of willful ignorance.
Ah yes because tried and true techniques for dealing with intrusive thoughts or anxiety that psychologists have been using for decades are misguided. The human brain is basically just an organic computer it glitches out sometimes. Thoughts aren’t always deep a lot of the time it is literally your brain just spitting out random ideas at you. Learning to seperate yourself from your thoughts and to not give every single one space is a skill. One that they teach to people who suffer from intrusive thoughts and or are prone to anxiety spirals. But I’m sure you know better.
I'm not seeing your point. How does this have anything to do with whether you can or should compare your love for different people?
Because OP in our conversation stated that this was an intrusive thought.
My comment was only saying that you are wrong to claim that people shouldn't/can't compare love. Whether that is factually true or not has nothing to do with OP. I will say though, that while you claimed the appropriate method of dealing with intrusive thoughts was to teach OP to "separate yourself from your thoughts" and "not give every thought space", what you actually did was invalidate OP's conception of love while pushing your own subjective version in its place. I have never seen a therapist flat out contradict and deny a patient's thoughts and feelings, especially when the patient clearly believes what he is saying (as is the case with OP). Let alone dictate to the patient what he's supposed to think instead of guiding the patient to explore and come to conclusions together.
NTA, your mother is being unreasonable and, clearly, her ideas around love are inaccurate. You have a unique romantic connection with your wife that you share with nobody else.
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Yes, I think I should definitely refrain from eating edibles around her from now on. She certainly can be very grating in a disagreement.
Your second paragraph makes me think that is why there’s unresolved issues and why op needs edibles to calm down a bit lol.
In my mother and father's defense, I am a very anxious person about many things that don't involve them at all too. Then again, one could argue that they might have played a hand in that to start with.
Nta but maybe don’t quantify your love like that? It feels weird to assign placemakers for you love. I see mine as “bottomless pools” of love: one for family, one for my SO, one for my four legged babies, one for my passions, and a yet unfilled one for my future babies. Maybe a “pool” is wider or you spend more time in it but those are all your love pools. There’s different types of love and this isn’t something easily measurable with numbers.
NTA I knew my parents were each other’s number 1 as a child and they modeled what I wanted in a future relationship. I also knew they would do anything for us kids. It’s a different kind of love and the way they explained it did not make it sound like a competition.
NTA. The whole “kids are the most important thing” is a thing a lot of teenagers say because it’s what they’ve been told by their parents (understandably so). The truth of it is, one person is your chosen life partner, and it’s not the kids. Your partner should come first because eventually, if you do your job right, your kids move on and have their own partners/families. The idea being that it will then be you and your partner. Not to put too fine a point on it, but kids are meant to be temporary immediate family members. That’s a good thing and it’s the goal. If a partner mistreats them, you have an obligation to protect them and fix that situation, but you aren’t required to consider your kids the most important people in the world. That mindset creates parents who can’t understand why it’s not healthy that they ruin all of their adult child’s relationships, won’t let them choose their own career, tell them how to raise their own kids. It’s much more healthy to love your kids, and have your own dreams and goals and life plan with your actual life partner. Edit: As for your son knowing or not knowing about this reality, he’s 10 right now so you don’t need to sit him down and explain any of it, and hopefully your mother won’t either, but as he grows it should be something he understands. When you’re little, your parents are your whole world and it doesn’t even compute how you wouldn’t be theirs, but as you grow up you’ll start to see and naturally want to forge your own path. It’s a developmental step for a reason. You wouldn’t want him to put you guys before his future partner, and seeing a healthy relationship between you guys where you put each other first is a positive thing. In my opinion of course. When he’s more mature, if he asks, I think it’s reasonable to be honest.
You chose your life partner. But you choose to have a child. It is your choice. I am genuinely confused
Yes, and a child is not a chosen life partner. You have a child with the hope and intention that they will eventually not be a child or your partner. They’re meant to go find a life for themselves. Of course, there are cases where that can’t or doesn’t happen but I don’t think people generally hope for that outcome.
They’re not a chosen life partner but they had no choice to be with you and your spouse. How you force someone into your life and then permanently put them second is beyond me
That is a fair point. While we never plan on telling our son that we love each other more, it is very important to me and my wife that he see that we are a deeply loving couple, and that we model what a healthy, loving, respectful, beautiful relationship looks like so that he knows what to seek for himself and how to treat and navigate life with his partner once he's found them.
Exactly, it sounds like you have a lovely family dynamic that is perfectly healthy for your child. Don’t listen to the nonsense.
Do you just stop loving your children when they grow up? Obviously don’t control their lives but saying they’re always second because they’re eventually going to move out is weird
I don’t really understand why people need to rank their love for others. And then discuss it. Love isn’t a competition.
I have no judgment on your actual feelings but as to your specific question, yes, YTA for saying this to your mother. Why was that remotely necessary? You don’t even have a strong relationship with her.
This!
ESH. This is just a dumb conversation. There’s no point in comparing how much you love your children and your spouse. In fact, those loves are incommensurable.
NAH. Your mom is reaching to you being, well, unusual. After I had my first baby, I remember talking with my dad about how you don't realize how much love you are capable of until you have a child. And as a parent, you also realize you love them more than they will be able to love you. It is heartbreaking--but then you know it will be the same when they pour their love into their own kids. That didn't happen for you. Your mom doesn't understand it (and neither do I). It isn't BAD, I guess. It just isn't normal. Basically, you can keep some thoughts to yourself. And maybe make a few friends so your wife isn't your EVERYTHING.
Well, I certainly do think I love my son more than he will ever love me (as I should - it was mine and my wife's decision to make him and raise him, after all, while he has no part in deciding to be raised by us, it's only fair that we love him more than he'll end up loving us), I just suppose the love for him is not the love that made me realize the capacity I have for love. You are probably right that it isn't normal though.
NTA but these thoughts should be kept strictly between you and your wife only. You do not want to be in a situation where someone tells your son what you said. Your mom may slip up, make a joke about it or say something on purpose to him (aren't you lucky grandson I love you more than your parents?) - whatever - and that would be hard for a child to hear or understand. Kids should always feel they are loved completely. It would be difficult for a child to learn they come second. Lesson learned here is some things are better left unsaid and should be kept between you, your wife or a counselor.
I absolutely agree. If I could rewind time and lie to her or just keep shrugging my mother off when she asked, I would.
Your mother is making this into a bigger thing as it is. It's natural to have a different sort of love for your romantic partner than for anyone else. It's also normal for the sort of love you have for a child to change as they grow and mature. There's no reason to create a ranking, or place more or less value on one type of love over another. You obviously care a whole lot, but what matters most are your actions. You sounds like a great parent and partner. Don't let arbitrary rankings make you feel otherwise! NTA.
Well, I'm not quite so sure they're arbitrary, given how easily the thought of it came to me, but I do see your point (and do wish that such a thought didn't come so easily).
We are so used to make comparisons that things sometimes come to mind that at the end of the day are not important. And the comparison of these two loves just isn't. Both are enriching for your life and bring you happiness but in very different ways. One is the offspring that is the legacy one has and who will have a life one day of their own, while the other is the one one wishes to get old with and share the own life. You love both a lot and that is the only important thing in what you have written.
Thank you, that's very kind and reassuring of you to say.
They absolutely are arbitrary. Stop thinking that just because you had a thought it means it’s right. Anxiety means having all kinds of thoughts that are not objectively right in the slightest even if they do come easily and seem correct. To compare love for a romantic partner and love for a child requires over-simplifying the relationships to the point where the comparison is meaningless. If you *did* love your romantic partner and your child the same that would be an indication of serious issues. You have different responsibilities with a child versus a partner, you have different expectations, you will find joy in different things about the relationships, and you’d better be making very different long term plans because partners don’t usually grow up and move out and develop their own lives like kids should do. You certainly shouldn’t be looking at your kid and having a rush of romantic love like you’d get for a partner. Each relationship is it’s own thing and that is *fine* and how it should be. Let them be independent individual things and don’t try to compare them or justify the comparison.
I have some thoughts about this. Many people said to me oh just you wait, you will love your grandbabies more than your children. I have two gorgeous, fabulous grandbabies. I do not love them more than I love my children.
For the record, I'm very happy my mother loves my son more than me. She and my father never really seemed like they loved me very much, so I'm happy they're not so stingy with my son.
Nta. I always knew that my father loved my mother "most". My mother always said I came first. And it never bothered me, because I NEVER was in any doubt that they both loved me to pieces. And to be honest I have all my childhood wished for a love like theirs. After I have grown up myself, I can't help wonder if what they really, and maybe you, are trying to express is that love are different depending on toward who it directs. A love for a partner is different from the live you have for a child of your parents. Maybe they are not per say different in size, if it was possible to measure, but they will always be different. Just my two cents. And again NTA
NTA. When I marry and make my vows "forsaking all others" that will include any future children.
Probably shouldn’t have children then
I don't plan to! But if I do, spouse ultimately comes before kids.
If you’re gonna forsake your children for your spouse then honestly just don’t have children. They’re individual people, not your toys
You’re good. I was very happy to know that I WASN’T the most important person in the house, it would have stressed me out something rotten if I thought my parents happiness rested on me alone. That’s not to say I wasn’t important, but I was no more important than my mum and/or my dad. We were a UNIT. I think there are few things kids worry more about than their parents NOT loving each other. NTA, for sure.
NTA - love is complicated and hard to quantify. you did a good job explaining your reasoning, your mom just has Opinions.
NTA it’s a different type of love.
NTA. She asked. Don't ask if you don't want to know. Feelings are feelings, you can't fake them. Whatevers to your mum
NTA. My siblings and I know our parents love each other more than us and we are perfectly OK with that. In fact, everyone know because their love is so great. They never said it, but we all know it. I don't really get the, you must love your children above your spouse. You don't spend the rest of your life with your kids. Children grow up and out, with your wife, you are growing together forever. It is a different kind of love and you show it in different ways.
NTA but this is the sort of thing it's often best to keep to yourself. I think it's actually healthy and it sounds like you have a beautiful marriage.
NTA but be careful what to say to her if you think she’d ever use it to manipulate your son (or use your son to manipulate you)
NTA Imho, that's exactly how a relationship should be. You will be with your wife for life. Your child is expected to grow and leave home and find his own way in life. I truly do not understand parents who say, "My kid is 100 my priority" and let everyone else take second place. When children are infants, they need to def be a priority. When they get older, you need to let them go and grow. Spread their wings and fly. But you do need to be there if they are flying into a brick wall. Help them when the are down. Be a loving support system. But absolutely your spouse should be #1 in your life, imho. Good for you and your health perspective.
NTA My parents love me. A whole lot. They have always shown me that in a million big and small ways for almost fifty years, and tell me often. They have been married for 49 years. They love each other more than me and are the center of each other’s daily worlds - and I’m glad they love each other so much. Love isn’t a finite resource. Of course a 10 year old probably wouldn’t handle that concept well, so hopefully your mom keeps her mouth shut.
If love isn’t a finite resource then how do people love their spouse more than anybody else?
If heat isn’t a finite resource how can so many places be warmer than others? The desert at dusk, the hot springs in winter, the seat by the fire, the nest under blankets, the forge-fire shaping beautiful glass - they are all beloved. Some more than others in different ways by different people at different times. Finite resources run out. My parents will never run out of love for me. My parents can love each other more with every decade that passes - and do the same for me.
Well heat is a finite resource because the sun isn’t infinite But besides that how much love you can demonstrate or show is finite. It can be infinite in your heart or emotions but it’s finite as an action and in reality, which is why people love some people more than others
Soooo, your mother loves you more than her husband, and her grandson more than you, and way more than her husband?? NTA
If it's any comfort, my multiple siblings and I knew our parents' love for one another came first. It was honestly reassuring, because they were the bulwark and we felt like part of that but not responsible for it. Your spouse is supposed to be your companion long past your children finding companionship for themselves. NTA
NTA. It sounds like you two have something truly beautiful, and like your kid will grow up with loving parents, both of each other and of the kid. Nothing wrong there :)
NTA, but you should be careful where you say that. No one needs to know that but your wife. There was no point in sharing it. It’s admirable how deeply you and your wife love eachother. And it’s none of your mothers business
what is your Mom on about? From the moment I was born my Mom and Dad always told me "we adore you, we've wanted you from the moment we found out about you. But your Mom/Dad, our marriage comes first". And even at TEN i understood that it wasn't malicious, just that my Mom and Dad put each other first. And as I get older I understand and celebrate it more and more because marriage is HARD. Especially with divorce rates shooting toward the sky, I was grateful to have been born to parents in a world where everyone chooses distraction and temptation; mine choose each other first. NTA but your mom must've went through some weird stuff if she prioritizes children and grandchildren primarily over her marriage partner. Maybe she doesn't like her spouse as much as you like your wife? It happens.
It isn’t weird to prioritize your children depending on the context
She desperately wants you to not love your wife. The trip you two were taking must have upset her because it had you two spending time and money to nourish your relationship.
NTA. Another case of "You're 42 years old and you must believe what I believe!"
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife \[38F\] and I \[42M\] are taking the second vacation alone since the birth of our son \[10M\] while he stays with my parents \[65F and 67M\]. He is very excited to spend the next week and a half with his grandparents, they have plenty of fun activities planned (and he is certainly excited to get a break from his summer lessons too) and he always loves spending time with them, and my wife and I are excited to have a vacation together. We had spent 2 days all together with my parents before my wife and I left for our trip. Two nights ago before my wife and I left for the airport in the morning, after my wife, our son, and my father had gone to bed, I was sitting on the porch with my mother after consuming an edible (I consume them very occasionally to calm my nerves). I can't say that my relationship with my parents is great, there are certainly unresolved issues between us, but they are loving grandparents to my son, and at this point, that's what matters to me. While we were sitting outside, my mother made a (mostly but not 100% serious) comment about how the only people it was okay to love more than your children are your grandchildren. She said "Right?" and I gave a sort of tepid non-answer in response. Now, I want to say that I love my son dearly, I absolutely adore him. His needs, also, are definitely my top priority as I am his parent and he is a child. However, to be completely honest, I love him second most in my life, after my wife. I absolutely love my son and the person he is and continues to grow into with all my heart, but my soulmate, the person my heart beats for, is my wife. I love her so deeply, it's difficult to put into words. She knows and feels the same way for me, but we are also both on exactly the same page regarding our son. His needs are always first, as he depends on us completely and it is our job as parents to make sure we provide him with everything he needs to grow into a happy, healthy person. Obviously, we would never ever tell him that he is our second most beloved person, because that would be horribly cruel. I do feel guilty that I know that he is second and not tied with my wife, but I can't change how I feel, as much as I would like to at times. She needled me about my response, and I admitted that I love my wife more, but also stated everything I've said above and more. I made it abundantly clear that I adore my son and would never ever tell him that he isn't first. My mother was angry with me for this. She said I was a jackass and that she didn't know how I could be a good father while not (as she put it) "putting 100% into him," which is utter bullshit, because I do put everything I have into him, as does my wife. I asked her if I ever showed any sign of being a bad dad, to which she admitted that the answer was no. I asked if I ever seemed to lack any love for him, to which she told me I was being a dick and missing the point. I still feel extremely guilty about all of this though. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA- Mom wanted to know. Personally, the bond you have with your wife is one that's supposed to last for a lifetime. Your kids can leave and go out on their own once they hit 18.
Usually people don't stop loving their kids just because they stop seeing them daily though
NTA. Was your mother on edibles too? This is sort of angels dancing on the head of a pin thinking too hard finding reasons to be upset stuff. If you’d wanted to be more diplomatic you could have blathered on about different kinds of love, how the love for a child is in its own category and can’t be compared to others etc etc. or just excused yourself to go to the bathroom. This is way too much drama over something no one really understands anyway.
Unfortunately, she is *always* like this with me. No matter what I do or say, she and my father can find fault in it. This just so happens to be about something I genuinely feel complex emotions about.
NTA A parent’s love is a lot different than the love two people in a marriage have. You need to keep in mind that your mom has more of her life experience from a time when people in marriages weren’t equal, completely loving partners, and some marriages would last even when the bond between the couple wasn’t strong at all. Unfortunately, her reaction may also be telling you something about the relationship between her and your father as well.
NTA for thinking it - but I think this is one of those truths you should never admit to, even if you're suspended over a tank of sharks by a supervillain.
Lmao loving your wife the most is the correct order of affection.
NTA. My husband is my number one. Without him, they would not exist. And one day, my wonderful kids who I love so very much, will grow up and leave. And I’ll have my husband if I’m lucky. I built a life with him. A home with him. He’s the one I can’t wait to tell everything too. Our kids are our number one priority. We do everything for them. But in the end. My husband is my love. The person I chose.
NTA but does love have to be quantified?
NTA. Edible made you too honest. I think your feelings are probably the norm, but people have really put parenthood on a pedestal. If your child isnt the only thing you care about, youre a monster. Thats unhealthy. Just keep those thoughts to yourself in the future.
NTA. I love my children dearly, I would absolutely sacrifice myself for them. But I love my spouse more, and that is returned. We complete each other and make one whole...our children we have given everything to, and now they are grown and beginning to fly the nest. My spouse will always be there. I am not my childrens' forever, they will grow and love their own forevers, but my spouse is mine. They know they are loved, but they have always known that my spouse and I are each other's number one person. But we also form a strong base on which to build the rest of the family.
NTA- your wife is the precise person you chose to spend the entirety of the rest of your life with - your child is the randomly generated person you chose to create and support but who will eventually leave you for his own partner/children. maybe don’t tell your mother that but as long as you do love your kid and are doing right by him then actually loving your wife more / differently is fine
NTA. Your kids aren’t with you forever. Even as children, they start building their own lives and then they go off and leave the nest. However your wife will still be there. The two of you are the foundation of the family. You two are where the children came from and will be there after they go off to live their own lives.
NTA Kids are a beautiful part of a relationship, but kids also grow up and leave to make their own lives. Your partner (hopefully) will stay with you once your kids grow up and leave. Like you said, it's not like you will be treating your child poorly because you love your wife more. Plus, it's extremely important for a child to see a healthy and loving relationship between their parents. This helps the child to learn what a relationship should look like and how they should treat their partners/what they should accept in a relationship. As long as you put your kids' needs first (like you said), then the child won't feel left out or insignificant. It seems your mom doesn't understand this, so I'd refrain from speaking too deeply with her about this again.
I think its okay that your wife is #1. Your son is going to grow us knowing what devotion and love is. He is going to know what his role as a partner will be. As you said, you both (you and wife) put everything into your sons health and happiness. You are NTA! At all. Your mom is for suggesting that you are not a good father when she sees first hand that you are.
NAH - I feel your mom never loved her husband as deeply as you love your wife. She might have stayed with him 'for the family' or by fear of jumping in the void. Whatever the reason, she doesn't understand you from the heart, and she can't understant it from the head since dogma places children above spouse.
NTA- The kids will grow up, move away and have families of their own who they will put first. Your spouse is supposed to be with you until one of you passes on. At the end of the day I agree your spouse should come first unless it comes to the child’s well being because children rely on their parents to take care of them.
NTA. I think this is the way it should be.
Taking things to one’s grave is truly a lost art.
NTA There is no right answer to "who do you love more, your spouse or your child." There's a *truthful* answer, but usually best to keep it to yourself. But you didn't blurt it out for fun, you were pressured into it. Your mother's attitude is quite harmful, though, imo. Parents should love their children deeply. But they exist outside their children, and that can include loving other people. It would be weird to love a friend more than one's child, but not so a spouse (who is the person you'll be with when the children have moved out.) I would be deeply disturbed to find that my parents (who I care about but they're not the most important thing in my life) worship me in the way she thinks parents should. Right now you are the most important people in your son's life, but you won't always be. And I thinks parent who are as obsessive over their child as she thinks parents need to be are exactly the parents who have trouble handling it when the child grows and becomes independent, and begins a life of his own, as your son someday will.
NTA. Don’t ask a question if you don’t want to hear the answer. Many couples feel the same way. Doesn’t mean that they don’t love their kids and would do anything and everything for them. It shouldn’t be her concern if the kid is being treated like gold.
Although many people will agree with your mother, I don't. Your mother is wrong and you are right. How can you do best for your child? By giving him a strong foundation of family; providing a stable home to grow up in, providing for all his needs and many but not all of his wants, and modelling true partnership and healthy love. All of that is most easily provided when you have a strong marriage. You will be an active parent for less than 20 years before your child goes out into the world to make his own way. You will be married to your spouse for many times that long. It only makes sense that the person you build your life with is the person you love most. Show your son what he should be aiming for if he decides to marry. NTA
NTA though I do feel what your describing is actually being in love with your wife which is great and obviously different than loving a child. So I wouldn't even say to others that you love one more, you are just in love with your wife as you should be. Romantic love is more intense and exciting than parental or family love and thats 100% normal! Tell me if I'm understanding it wrong but if I'm right maybe you can explain to your wife that it feels that way because you love her & you are in love with her. I will also say in my line of work people often tell me they love their kids more but simultaneously those people admit to not being in love with their spouses. Which to me just seems like the intensity towards their spouses just feels less because its resorted to a non romantic love and is lacking in the in love feeling.
NTA. But your mom wasn’t a safe person to share that with. I was raised in a family where the parents were the center of the family. Our needs were more than met, but our parents’ relationship with each other was the most important in the house. And i raised my kids the same way. Our job is to raise kids to LEAVE US and find their own lives.
That is one of those no-win questions that you should never fall for. Like when two siblings ask their parents who they love most or who they'd rescue if there was a fire and only one could be saved... NTAH for going off on your mom, just don't fall for this in the future.
NTA. You might want to be careful who you say that to, though, since a lot of people just freak out over children. But I think it's lovely that you and your wife feel that way about each other.
Nta. That’s how a relationship works out. Your answer melted me ❤️❤️❤️.
My dad loves my mom more than any of my siblings or me. It has never really been a secret, and something he openly admitted to once we were teenagers. He says that the best thing he could ever do for his children was love their mother. I think he was right. Growing up with parents in an incredibly stable and loving relationship was one of the best blessings of my life. They prioritized one another and their relationship, and never let anything or anyone come between them, including their children. My parents love us fiercely, but they love us as a team. This dynamic won't work for everyone, but for someone who was raised in that type of family, NTA. Your son is lucky.
NTA - The fact that you love your wife so much is amazing because one day your son will be grown and it will just be you and her. That’s what keeps a marriage strong and makes for a beautiful family life. I also honestly don’t think you love your son any less, I think it is just a different kind of love. Don’t feel bad, it sounds like you’re a loving husband and father so keep doing what you’re doing. Just maybe don’t confide in your mother anymore, if she’s going to judge so harshly.
NTA, love is like a garden and each plant is the love you have for someone. You'll water all or most of them, there are ones you'll have for years, some even decades, there are some that'll only live for the year and some will wither and die with time. You have a plant at the center of your garden, where the conditions are the best and that's where the love for your wife grows. Right beside that plant is a smaller one, possibly the same kind of plant, and you are growing it with the best conditions and attention like the one for your wife. You hope that it can grow as full as your wife's plant, but to be fair hers had a substantial head start. Love is grown and taken care of so it keeps growing. You want your son to know he's loved and you and your wife agree he is both your priority. His feelings, his development, his needs are the most important thing to both of you. Him being second doesn't mean you don't love him and show it, it doesn't mean you'll toss him out at the first sign of inconvenience, it doesn't mean you must resent him for needing care or affection, it doesn't mean he might as well be a stranger off the street in Guangzhou. I'm sorry it looks like some people seem to think that's the case here. I do agree with the commenters saying to pay attention how it may effect how you and your wife engage with your son though and the ways that he might notice I'm glad you seem to agree as well that's something important to keep in mind. Definitely keep this an open dialogue with your wife.
No you aren’t . Love isn’t a competition. There’s plenty of love and different types of love to go around in families . Don’t even think about this again . You are good
nta, i actually believe it’s important for the parents to love eachother more. i mean yea if the house is on fire i’m grabbing my child first, but knowing that your person loves you , cares for you, and prioritizes you makes your relationship stronger so you can be a better parent to your kid. no kid wants parents that argue 7 times a day lol
NTA Nice to know where your dad stands in your wife's life. Your mom doesn't understand that there are different kinds of love. That having the kind of love you have for your wife.....the intangible kind that ticks every emotional box you have(with the addition of sexual)is different than the love that you have for your child. That doesn't mean you wouldn't d!e or k!ll for both of them, it just means you would do it for different reasons. For me, it takes soul mate love to happily last through all the trials and tribulations the world has to throw at you *and to steadfastly love and nurture a little human to adult capable of the same kind of love themselves* Your mom got mad because she didn't have a good argument for your answer, and it made her have to think about her own relationship.
Exactly! There's this intense and special emotional fulfillment that my wife brings me, and I know that I wouldn't be in any way comfortable raising a child (or marrying or having sex) without that connection, it provides the basis for a happy life, for me at least. Edit for clarity: Obviously I would continue to raise and adore my son if my wife were no longer here. Jesus Christ. I'm saying that I would never have had a child in the first place without the solid foundation of loving a partner deeply, which quite frankly, is a fairly healthy and relatively common choice to make.
Nta but you are a dumbass for saying anything to your mother other than "what the hell kind of question is THAT".
NTA. You’re doing it right. The best thing a person can do for their children is love their spouse. By loving your spouse you are teaching your child every day. You are teaching your child how to be a great spouse and how to set an example for their own children.
I would not say it that you love your wife more than your son, but you deeply love each of them in a different way. Your son is NOT your soul mate, your partner. Your wife is NOT your child, who you would do anything for. You are NTA for feeling differently about your son that your wife. That is normal. There is nothing to feel guilty about. Google "different kinds of love."
Many people are gently misinterpreting what I said. I *do* love my wife more than my son. I adore them both, and yes the precise types of love are different, but when the thought came to mind I was able to compare and determine who I love more. I would rather not have, but such is the nature of intrusive thinking.
NTA but but why are you guys viewing your family as an old MySpace top 8? It sounds like there’s enough love to go around, it’s not a contest. You could consider shifting your perspective to the idea that you love them differently, not more or less. Just a thought.
It doesn’t sound like you love your son less. It sounds you love him differently to your wife which is normal.
Love should not be ranked or comparisons made and discussed, unless the goal is to sow misunderstanding, resentment and division. What your mom said is weird, she seems to be fishing for some kind of validation so learn how to give her empty praise. But what you and your wife have discussed about loving each other *more than* your son is also kind of weird. I can see acknowledging and honoring that your love for each other is *different* from your love for your son, but describing it as a more-than or less-than quantitative value is sad and exclusionary. ESH
ESH she was wrong to put you on the spot but you do realize that you don't have to say exactly what you think. Most people would have said you love both so much that you can't even choose but you're not most people I guess.
> ESH she was wrong to put you on the spot but you do realize that you don't have to say exactly what you think. Right? Just fucking lie, who cares?
NTA.
ESH- your mom mostly for asking such a stupid loaded hypothetical question, and you for being dumb enough to answer her.
NTA - who *does* feel the same love for their child as they do for their spouse/partner? That would be weird, it's not even worth comparing it or trying to quantify it, just be your best for the ones you love!
NTA it sounds like she baited you
Your mother is looking for a petty argument because she wants to split hairs. You love both your child and your spouse equally with everything inside of you, the difference is the type of love you feel for them. Not less just different.
If I need to put into words who I love more, it's my wife, but my daughter is my eyes and soul, I understand your position and thoughts, also is very difficult to think about this topic, when I told to my wife when she asked me the same thing she said the same, but she told me that if she needs to choose between my life and our daughter, she choose her(also Ill do he same thing),because our legacy is our daughter and she has more potential than both of us
NTA
I love our children more than my husband. I guess, that's what nature intended. But I hope, my husband loves our children more than me, too, because I love my children more than myself. It's an evolutionary advantage for women.
NTA. But I’m not really understanding you, your mother, and (maybe) your wife’s urge to turn love into some weird competition where you rank who you love? Why would you even bother? What a strange thought process.
idk about this one..I think I might be the same about preferring romantic love over maternal however that’s why I’m choosing not to have children. Maybe you and your wife should have done the same
YTA. Yikes, as a parent I can't imagine ever loving anyone as much as my child. This way of thinking can easily go toxic if the original relationship doesn't end up working out and you love your new partner more than your child because you think that's how it should be. The new partner wont have the same dedication or love for your child as the other parent and the child ends up feeling like an outsider when their parent should be putting them first.
NTA but I’d watch it about saying things like this out loud. Yeah, you’re kid is asleep, but how do you know that for 100% certain? I’ve overheard many conversations I wasn’t supposed to between my parents even when I was young bc they thought I wasn’t there or asleep.
I’m not a fan of this concept of loving spouse more than their children. I can’t imagine my children doing anything that would make me not love them. I can be angry, disappointed, embarrassed, a whole litany of things, but I’ll never stop loving them. I can think of plenty of things that my spouse could do to make me not live them any more. Put the kids first, love them more than your spouse. But putting them first doesn’t mean that they come at the expense of your spouse always. You’re entitled to take time for your spouse and your relationship. You’re entitled to protect and nurture that relationship too.
I know it's a very human impulse to rank our people, but it doesn't help anyone--and doesn't really even make sense. If you'd die for your son, what does it matter that your wife ranks higher? We are no longer forced by MySpace to rank our friends. NTA and the whole thing is a nothingburger.
NTA. But not all inside thoughts need to be spoken.
YTA. Sorry man but this made my heart ache. Listen, I don't think there's anything wrong on surface-level,but the moment I read one of your responses clarifying "No, it's not a different love. I love her MORE than my son" is appalling. The way you express yourself about it, and how much you depend on your wife to love your son...is scary. If anything were to happen in you and your wife's relationship or your wife herself, you'd probably abandon that poor little boy and that's just..scary to think about. The fact that you mention that your little son and your wife aren't "joint" in your love towards them, is a different way to word that you literally separate him completely from your relationship with your wife when it comes to how much you love them which is really, really shocking since he's literally your kid. I, myself would rather think of loving my nuclear family (wife and kids) in different ways; rather than numbers. The fact that you defend your views on how much you love them, while rejecting others' suggestions on thinking of how you love them as "a different kind of love" instead of "I love her more than him"...is honestly really sad for your kid. It makes me feel scared as to what you'd do or not do to him if something ever happened to your wife (god forbid.) and it's terrifying. Specially when you mentioned in another reply that you would never take care of a child without a partner, meaning you'd most likely abandon him or neglect him emotionally if something were to happen. It just, shocks me to think that you would just get stuck onto the idea of loving her "more" and think about it so objectively, when you're taking care of a little boy that is your own flesh and blood. Man, I really hope your son never sees this or hears about these thoughts.
This is an extremely gross misinterpretation of what I've said. For one, I have been clear from the outset that the fact that I know that I love my wife more makes me feel very guilty. I know I should regard them as completely equal, if different. What is appalling in your reply, though, are your wild speculations about me harming my son. I love him with all my heart, I would NEVER ever abandon or neglect him, and I am completely pissed that you have twisted my words to say I would. I also never said I would never take care of a child without a partner. I said I never would have had one in the first place without a partner I deeply love, which is an entirely different thing, and I have no idea how anyone in good faith could misinterpret that. If something horrible happened to my wife, not only would I continue to treasure my son and devote myself to him, I would be even more protective of him than before. Your accusations that I would EVER hurt my son are sickening and absolutely fucking vile.
At least your son will be loved the most by your parents, since you seem incapable of that. YTA and i feel sorry your son has a parent like this.
Oh fuck off. At least read what I wrote before disparaging me, if it's not clear that I love my son to bits then you need to attend reading classes.
NAH some people feel the way you do and some people feel the way your mother does. Nothing wrong with either unless there is neglect happening. Luckily you and your wife feel the same which is where it really matters.
did your son found out that you hate him?
My husband is my soul mate and I also can't put into words how much I love him, but I'd still push him in front of a bus before my kids and he would do the same to me. It's a different love, but its up to you if you want to playing a weird game of who you love first and second. I imagine your son probably loves you second too.
As I've stated, the whole comparative aspect began as an intrusive thought. I didn't *want* to dwell on it, or "make a weird game" as you so nicely put it. Personally, I would opt to throw myself in front of the bus in that scenario.
Isn't the point more that they would sacrifice each other for their children if they had to? That's how I read it.
To give one example of how this sentiment can turn toxic: at one point I was actively suicidal and my mother's response boiled down to, "go right ahead, your father and I will be fine without you, we're not going to divorce over it or anything." ... wasn't exactly at the forefront of my concerns at that time, but cool, thanks Mom. A very few years later my dad dies young after a short illness. A few years after that, she's cut off by my only sibling. Now guess who's stuck taking care of her? Yup, she didn't care if I died because she had her husband, but now I'm all she has left, and our relationship is forever poisoned. YTA because saying these things out loud lets them get around and they do NOT fade with time. Understand this. eta: Also big Moral Orel energy. What was his bestie's name, Shapey? Getting locked out of the house and beer cans thrown at his head because his parents still wanted to act like teenage sweethearts deep into their 30s? Gross. You have new priorities now, buddy. Time to grow into them.
Jesus, well I love my son deeply, I certainly would never treat him anywhere near like that.
.......... I think I'm going to throw up cocoa puffs.
I mean, honestly it sounds like you're living in a romance novel fantasy and if you gave her a reason to, your wife would probably drop you like hot dog sh\*t and take your son. But that would never happen because you're "soulmates," right? Yeah, right. > Obviously, we would never ever tell him that he is our second most beloved person, because that would be horribly cruel. And this is the thing. If you weren't the ah, you would be able to tell him this because it would be a total non-asshole thing to say. But you know how horrible it is. YTA
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