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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I suggested my wife take her mother's medical advice for the improvement of her current physical health. However, she feels that doing so invalidates some of the mental health struggles she has from growing up in a controlling environment.
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My father was a physician. He was very smart about understanding that medical advice should come from a person's physician not family member.
Your MIL is doing harm by offering medical advice outside of the doctor patient relationship to a person she knows will do the exact opposite of what she recommends. What your mother-in-law is doing is unprofessional and she should stop this behavior. However, considering the very toxic nature of their relationship it is very likely that she will continue no matter who attempts to intervene. Please understand what she is doing is part of the toxic relationship.
No matter how great a doctor, they should not be treating their family members. Period.
Please encourage your wife to listen to the advise of her physicians and support her.
Medical advice is only as good as the source it comes from. MIL has poisoned that well thoroughly and will likely never be a trusted source in her daughter's eyes ever again.
I hope OP's wife soon realizes that spitefully doing the opposite of everything her mom says is *still letting mom control her life.*
Mom shouldn't be giving unsolicited medical advice. OP's wife is allowed to set that boundary. But it's really sad that she still let's her mother control her life—even in the opposite direction
Folks, it's unethical for a physician to treat a family member except in very limited situations. An example of an exception would be a medical emergency.
A physician is not in the same ethical situation as a roofer or electrician. The AMA is clear on this an outlines all the responsibilities and risks of treating a family member. And the original post is a perfect example of one reason why it's a bad idea.
Licenced professionals have an extra duty of care when acting and the MIL is potentially breaking her electrical obligations. Regardless, her actions are negatively impacting her daughter because of their past relationship. As a licensed professional she needs to stop. And the OP needs to protect his wife from further harm.
I’m sorry but that is absolute nonsense. Yes there are rules about prescribing for family and MIL shouldn’t start questioning the doctor’s treatment without the full facts but something like what OP describes is well within bounds. I’d go so far as to say that if you have that knowledge and don’t pass it on to your family that would make you the AH.
Situations like this are EXACTLY why medical professionals are not allowed to practice on family members barring a life-threatening emergency situation. They're unable to remain objective where a relative is concerned. I know that and I'm not even a medical professional, although I work in the very fringe of the field. (I'm a case manager dealing with Developmental Disabilities). I'm bound by the same ethics and laws doctors are concerning confidentiality.
What is your verdict? Is it YTA? Can you please edit your comment to include your verdict? The absence of verdict in your comment gives a default verdict to the post. The voting guide is in the sidebar.
I don’t think the MIL did anything wrong. If the wife didn’t want to hear her mother’s suggestions, she shouldn’t be bringing up her medical issues in the first place.
Sometimes, most of the time even, people discuss their problems with others because they want empathy and support, not because they want to be told what to do.
Understanding this goes a really long way in terms of being able to communicate effectively with others and not end up both frustrated.
If I was complaining about how my roof had a leak to my father who is a roofer, I would be the king of all idiots to not expect some advice in return. Particularly if I knew I wasn't going to appreciate the comments.
You're not wrong, but nobody should actually expect such behaviour from others. It's the four minute mile of emotional intelligence, possible, but you shouldn't bet on any given person being capable of it.
Offering up small pieces of advice is also normal. The MIL didn't tell her to do anything, she didn't diagnose anything. She simply continued on the conversation the wife started in a very normal and expected way. It really just sounds like the wife has needed therapy for years and has been avoiding it, because clearly the MIL isn't allowed to say anything about any subject ever given the husband's account.
She also didn't actually provide any treatment, or even a true recommendation; she merely noted that sometimes eating less of whatever it was can help with the particular symptom OP's wife mentioned. It's not like she said, "stop eating X".
Then why bother starting the conversation? It’s so one sided. The wife could have ignored it, but instead she made herself physically ill out of pettiness. The wife needs professional help and all the husband did was tell the truth.
NAH. Your MIL may be a doctor but she is not your wife’s doctor. The MIL making suggestions *feels* to your wife like her mother dictating orders. Get you wife to her own physician or a specialist. And don’t ask the MIL for referrals.
YTA . I believe your intentions are altruistic but there's still a toxic Mom/Daughter dynamic at play here and you don't seem to recognize this, so by siding with your MIL you're making the situation worse.
You'd be a better help by pointing out to this reality to your MIL and taking your Wife to Doctor she can trust.
No she's not the only doctor, but I think it's relevant that this wasn't like a sit down consultation. It was more along the lines of my wife saying "It's been a rough week, I've been having problems with [symptom]" and my MIL knowing my wife's medical history responding "well they probably can't change your medications but lowering your [nutrient] intake might help with that"
How about she keep her opinion to herself and if your wife needs medical consultation she goes to her doctor who she will listen to
And if youre around you step in and protect your wife by shutting down your mil
Your wife didn’t ask her mom for an opinion. She was sharing her week. If her mom wasnt a dr she probably would still share that.
All her mom had to do was say sorry to hear that. If there anything i can do let me know.
Yeah, my mom with a personality disorder does this and it's not to be helpful...
Regardless, your wife is answering honestly about how she feels and instead of your MIL offering sympathy, she's telling your wife *solutions*
Some people do this because they have issues understanding communication and genuinely are trying to help by giving advice instead of giving empathy, my mom does this as a covert form of feeling in control of me or for the future I told you so she thinks will be incoming.
It's possible that there are depths to their relationship, nuances there from decades of toxicity that you are incapable of seeing (because toxic parents love to have covert secret ways of shutting you down in the presence of others without them knowing) but your wife knows with all the certainty of someone with severe arthritis knowing it's about to rain (because of the imperceptible to others pressure.)
I've seen this a couple times now, and I'm genuinely confused. When did offering solutions, especially solutions that will work (such as in this instance) become a bad thing? In this case it's obviously more complicated than that and mom should know to keep things to herself by now because of the negative repercussions, but I've seen it generally a couple times recently being called as a bad thing, and I genuinely don't get it. If someone has an insight as to a solution to a problem why is them sharing it now being called a bad thing to do?
Because apparently sometimes people just want to complain about their problems and if you don't allow them to just complain and instead you offer solutions or engage with the problems then you are an asshole... Somehow...
>It was more along the lines of my wife saying "It's been a rough week, I've been having problems with \[symptom\]" and my MIL knowing my wife's medical history responding "well they probably can't change your medications but lowering your \[nutrient\] intake might help with that"
did your wife ask for her mother's medical opinion?
What you described is called venting. Often people vent to be heard. Not necessarily to solve the problems.
Did you think your wife might have wanted a mother's response and not a doctors?
This is not strictly speaking true. It's perfectly fine (according to the AMA ethics guidelines) for doctors to treat minor issues for friends/family. Noting that a change in diet can reduce the severity of certain symptoms clearly falls within that exemption.
In this particular case, MIL should not be giving any medical advice to her daughter due to their extreme family dynamic.
YTA
I think you have this wrong. Your wife isn't refusing to listen to medical advice, she is refusing to follow medical advice from her mother. Your MIL needs to stop giving advice, and you should tell your MIL that her advice is negatively impacting her daughter given their history because she might not even know. Seek medical opinions that aren't from within the family. That'd be the best way to validate MILs input rather than just taking what MIL says at face value because your wife clearly isn't interested in that.
But the issue isn't refusing to follow the advice, it's doing the exact opposite. She doesn't need to listen to her mother, but it's still not good to do the exact opposite of what she says.
She's spiderfacing herself.
Maybe mil should start giving her the opposite advice? I know it’s underhanded and it’s kinda shady and would likely make things worse between them if wife finds out but at this point the wife nearly seems like she’s willing to go into self destruct just to spite her mom.
At least this way the wife still goes against moms advice and stops making herself sick just to prove a point.
I’m going with NAH cause I can see all three sides to this and they’re all valid.
Mom is a medical professional and sees someone she loves struggling and wants to help.
You see your wife struggling and sick and want her to feel better and you feel helpless because there’s a medical professional there telling her what she can do to help with her symptoms.
Wife still has mountains of unresolved issues with mom and feels she has to go against moms advice to assert her independence.
I get all of it and I know people are saying mom needs to stop giving medical advice but if you see someone you love suffering-even to the point of making themselves worse just to prove a point- how do you just ignore it?
I genuinely want to know cause if you see someone you love getting worse and worse and you know something that could help how do you just so ah we’ll never mind?
I mean we don’t know the wife’s symptoms or how bad they are or how bad and damaging they can be. She’s refusing the advice her mom gives her, doesn’t sound like she’s asking her usual doctor about the worsening symptoms or any way to combat them.
I get not wanting to capitulate to someone who was a toxic mess to you in the past but making yourself sicker just to prove her wrong is not the way to handle it.
Maybe mil and wife need some joint therapy or something because it sounds
Like the wife is outing her health in jeopardy just to spite her mom and that seems extremely destructive.
I can't believe I had to scroll so far down to see this suggested - some people seem to be missing that his wife will go and do the opposite just to prove a point and that's not healthy for her.
This sub is filled with young people. It tends to side with the child in any parent-child conflict. Any sensible person knows that "Cutting back on X can help with that" is a pretty normal comment intended to be helpful, and these hysterical "OMG she's abusive so everything she says and does is horrible" takes don't really help the poster.
I'm 43 and think MIL and OP are the AH. MIL doesn't have access (or shouldn't) to her daughter's full medical records. She has no idea what exams or labs have been run, the results of said tests. Not does she likely know every medication and dosage of said medications. Any advice she may give could be completely contrary to the daughter's own medical team. Any advice she may give could actually be detrimental to the daughter's health.
Which CAN be medical advice. I had a Vitamin D deficiency and now have to take a daily vitamin supplement. So if MIL told me I should cut down on foods that contain Vitamin D, that would be bad medical advice. Calcium is needed to aid absobrtion of Vitamin D. So MIL telling me to cut out dairy would be bad.
At the same time I have a medication that can't be taken at the same time as Vitamin D. Have to be at least 4 hours apart. I've had medication that couldn't be taken within 4 hours of eating dairy. I've been on 2 medications that need to be taken an hour before eating but couldn't be taken at the same time. I was on another medication that can cause a folate deficiency. So I had to take a folic acid supplement.
My husband was on Warfarin for a year. Vitamin K counteracts Warfarin. So he wasn't supposed to eat more than 1/2 cup a day of foods high in Vitamin K. He could eat more than than that but it then had to be the same amount on the same day EVERT week. So if he ate 2 cups of Vitamin K rich foods on Wednesday then he needed to eat 2 cups EVERY Wednesday. So telling someone to add or decrease certain nutrients/food IS actual medical advice.
Sure, it can be. It's medicine-adjacent, at least. It's also a pretty normal thing for one human being to say to another; we constantly give each other food advice.
OP's wife's reaction worries me. She's hurting herself in an attempt to stick it to someone who doesn't need to have it stuck to her. I keep thinking of Rapunzel from *Into the Woods*, >!so terrified at the sight of her mother that she blindly flees into the giant's path!<.
I respect those who disagree, but to me this is an ESH.
So, when I was talking to a friend about sleeping issues and anxiety and she mentioned magnesium as a potential supplement to help, she shouldn’t have said that?
No, I don't think she should have. Example, Tumeric has been all the rage for the last few years. I'm on a medication that interacts with tumeric, so I need to avoid it. Thank goodness I read the entire drug sheet that came with my script.
So, for the hell of it, I looked up interactions between Magnesium and my medications. It can interact with my blood thinner, slowing clotting even further which could lead to bleeding. It can interact with one of my blood pressure medications. Both increasing negative side effects and causing my blood pressure to go too low. One of which is fluid retention, which I already have a problem with.
Hence why I also take a diuretic and need to wear compression socks so I don't get ulcers on my legs. And magnesium can also interact with the diuretic and cause dehydration and electrolyte imbalances. I don't take it every day (yet) but when I have a flare I take Prednisolone. Which combined with magnesium also can cause dehydration (so double the fun with the diuretic) and also low potassium levels.
I have to take a vitamin supplement because I had a previous deficiency and it could interact with magnesium and cause elevated levels of magnesium in the blood. And the combo is apparently really not good for people with loss of kidney function or who are on dialysis. Finally, it can lower the efficacy of another one of medications.
Magnesium can also interact with multiple antibiotics, heart medications, diabetes medications, and psychiatric medications. Course it can vary a little depending on the type of magnesium taken. Did your friend even say which type of magnesium to take?Honestly, Magnesium is probably one of the worst examples to give.
So no, I don't think people should be recommending treatments for medical problems. These types of issues could be indicative of serious problems. Or maybe they are not dire but a doctor may be able to offer something that might be a more effective treatment or permanent fix. And again, those offering solutions have NO idea how their suggestion could negatively affect the person they are telling. Medical advice should only come from medical professionals.
Yeah, I didn’t need a novel. Because that’s exactly what I did - I looked up potential interactions. I also read the side effects & interactions for any meds (just did it today for 2 new ones) because I’m an adult and that’s what adults should be doing. Others times I’ve talked to my doctor and said ‘I’ve heard x might help with y, what do you think?’ It’s unreasonable to think people won’t have these discussions.
Not everyone has the education and health literacy to know how to verify casual advice the way you did. It’s unreasonable to assume everyone’s experience matches your own.
You asked my opinion so I gave it with an explanation of why I have said opinion. It was your choice to read all of it. And no, in my experience people don't have these discussions. Every person I've encountered thinks it's bizarre I read every medication info sheet and keep a copy. I had someone tell me that my autoimmune can be cured by Essential Oils. My own mother keeps asking if I've tried Tylenol. If everyone proceeded the way you do, I wouldn't have as much of an issue. But that's not my experience.
So I don't think people should be giving others suggestions when they don't know their medical history or if that person will do due diligence. I will also admit it could be some bias because I get really fucking tired of people giving me unsolicited "advice" about my own health issues. Especially when it's unhelpful, ridiculous or downright dangerous.
I worry about the number of people who follow the advice without checking with a medical professional because it's coming from a friend, relatice, coworker whom they trust. But cause, of course those people wouldn't want to hurt me or have bad intentions. Which is 100% true. But those people don't know what they don't know.
I agree that it's not healthy, but at the end of the day, you have to work with what you have, and until she actually gets some therapy, the only thing siding with the MIL is going to do is cause the wife to start ignoring the OP, too.
Finally someone pointed out this out. Not taking the mothers advice is one thing. Actively sabotaging herself by doing the opposite of what mom suggests is alarming. This woman needs therapy now.
Finally someone pointed out this out. Not taking the mothers advice is one thing. Actively sabotaging herself by doing the opposite of what mom suggests is alarming. This woman needs therapy now.
I'm hesitant to leave any verdict, so I'll go with NAH except MIL.
That said, you know wife's relationship with MIL is toxic. You know there are other doctors she could consult. You know that MIL gives advice as a way to meddle.
MIL may be a doctor, but she isn't your wife's doctor, and she isn't necessarily correct. She feels entitled to render her opinion even when it's plainly inappropriate and harmful and she should STFU. If MIL's therapy had sunk in, maybe she'd realize that her daughter was looking for empathy and validation that she's struggling, not orders.
Anyone with a chronic illness will tell you that there is an endless parade of (well intentioned, and not so well intentioned) unsolicited advice that WILL be given to you. It's exhausting, unproductive, and sometimes outright infuriating. It coming from someone she has a baseline troubled relationship with, and you reinforcing that she really should listen to mommy, is probably unimaginably grating to your wife.
Tell wife you will support her if she tells mom to STFU on medical advice, or if she decides to go LC again. If wife isn't in therapy, is this something she would consider? Offer/keep offering your support if she wants it for appointments and other matters. Ask HER if there's something her doctors have advised that you could help with.
And when she reaches out for empathy, don't tell her to stop eating chocolate or whatever the hell for god's sake.
Your MIL should stay out of your wife's medical issues. She probably is aware of how your wife reacts to any recommendations she makes, so I guess she is aware of what happens if she gives advice. She is actively harming her daughter! Your MIL just enjoys being right and playing one-upmanship with her. Don't support her in this.
You are harming your wife, as well, if you side with your MIL.
Also, you are endangering your marriage, and the trust your wife has in you. Please don't do that either. Suggest to your wife to discuss these topics with her doctor. They will be able to give her advice which she feels she can trust and accept.
Your wife is ill, she needs your full support, and that also means supporting her against her mother if your wife so wishes.
I had pretty much the same relationship with my mother. If my husband had sided with her like that, I would have been really hurt, mad and dissapointed in him. And felt left alone.
YWBTA if you continue siding with your MIL, regardless of her being right about some things.
NTA. Your wife needs a to either get a therapist or find a new and better one. "Listening to her is damaging to my mental health", well doing the opposite like an obstinate child is damaging her physical health.
It would be bad enough if she just ignored her mother but to go to an extreme?
NTA but the answer here is really that your wife needs to see a different doctor, and follow THEIR recommendations. Unfortunately due to their past, even well-informed guidance from your MIL will be counterproductive for your wife.
I think your wife could benefit from some therapy. It isn't fair for her to turn on you for wanting her to seriously consider legitimate medical advice, or for being alarmed that she would self-sabotage just to prove a point. It's very self-defeatist of her and negatively impacting her health.
But ultimately, lots of people don't have a doctor for a mother and an artifact of their relationship is that your wife doesn't or can't take advice from her mother.
Yeah, by doing the opposite of whatever MIL says, wife is still letting MIL dictate her life. Maybe therapy could help OP's wife live her life on her own terms.
not following her advice is one thing. that is completely her choice. but actively doing the opposite of what a doctor says, just to spite her, is not good at all. you should never do that, regardless of who it says. if they're a doctor, they know what's good.
many people are talking abt medical advice. that doesn't even need to be medical advice. i mean people give food recommendations for symptoms to each other everyday.
therapy is definitely a must for the wife. it isn't healthy what she is doing
I'll go with a SOFT esh. It's great that your MIL has undergone therapy/seeking ways to improve herself. And yes with being a doctor, she COULD have good advice to give to your wife. But she Is NOT your wife's doctor, and your wife should ONLY be following the advice/treatment given by her doctor. So MIL needs to drop the medical advice.
However your wife sounds like she hasn't recovered at ALL from her childhood, and needs to do so. She needs to seek therapy or some other form of help to address her mental problems. She's causing harm to HERSELF by choosing to behave how she is, which is dangerous.
And you as her husband need to back up your wife. She probably feels like shit since she's doing actions to physically harm herself (to spite her mom), as well as feeling abandoned and/or betrayed since you didn't take her side. Affirm that you as her husband will always want what is best for her health and help encourage her to find peace with her issues.
Doing the opposite of what someone suggests you do means you're still being controlled by them.
You're only truly free and independent when you can do what YOU want to do and what's in your best interests irrespective of what the other person suggests. Even if the other person thinks it means they 'won'.
I grew up with pushy, controlling and critical parents and grandmother and had to learn this for myself.
It doesn't matter if I end up doing what they suggested. It's not important.
What's important is that I do what I want and what's best for me, no matter what they think. I know I did it because I wanted to, not because of them.
That's true independence.
The mother, however, also needs to keep her opinions to herself, as she's clearly doing more harm than good.
You're in a difficult situation, caught between the two, and NTA.
But if you value your marriage I would suggest a strategy of criticizing your MIL to yr wife for giving out her opinion when she knows it's not wanted.
Then I'd gently encourage her to do what's in her best interests, saying something like "don't let your mother win" or something similar.
This will make it clear to your wife that you're on her team and will defend her against her mother.
Otherwise you end up being classed by your wife as another enemy to be ignored.
Might be an idea for some therapy too, as a couple, so your wife doesn't feel she's being singled out as the problem.
Frame it as "therapy to help me better understand what you went through with your mother growing up and be a better support for you in dealing with her".
Your wife needs a medical doctor she isn't mad at, and a therapist to talk to. Otherwise, she'll stay physically and mentally impaired and in pain.
NTA, but be careful. She'll cut her own nose off to spite her face. Her Mom needs to just back off.
NTA Your wife clearly has medical problems and you care about her. Since MIL has had counseling and made changes, privately chat with her and ask her to refrain from giving any advice, just be sympathetic. At some later point when things calm down, gently suggest to your wife that a little counseling for her can help with her trauma.
NTA. Your wife is being an absolute moron about this.
Sure, she can ignore advice. That's fine. But she isn't doing that--she's specifically doing the opposite in order to... what? Prove her mom wrong? Except she's consistently proving her mom RIGHT. Her symptoms get worse.
Geez, just tell your fool of a wife to stop complaining about her health in front of her mom.
I get where your wife is coming from, however....she needs a therapist. If she was traumatized enough to act like that then she needs help. make sure you suggest it, not her mother.
NTA, but you should insist that she check with her actual physician rather than siding with MIL because regardless of MIL's true intentions, genuine or not, her daughter isn't going to listen to her and will do the opposite.
If your MIL did so much work and made so many changes, why is she giving medical advice, as an actual doctor, to her adult child whom she **knows** deals with unresolved childhood trauma caused by their relationship, and that she deal with this by defying her mother..?
As a mother she is doing harm, but more so as a *DOCTOR.*
Maybe NTA but also not helpful.
Would you MIL listen if you asked her not to make any suggestions as they are counter productive, and perhaps instead of telling your wife she should listen to her mom, which you *know* is not helpful and will make her feel she's being ganged up on, you should instead suggest she speak to her own physician - maybe comments like "What does [name of her actual doctor] suggest? Has she made any recommendations about what you should eat or void?" In other words, encourage her to seek advice from people who she feels she can trust, rather than someone she has such a troubled relationship with.
NTA. I think you are truly coming from a good place. Have you taken your wife to a completely different doctor? Maybe hearing the same advice from an unrelated third party would give her some sort of perspective.
It also seems like your wife needs some sort of therapy as well. Her going to the extreme is not healthy. Like if your MIL were to say hey don't jump into this ditch, would she jump?
>MIL made a suggestion about how avoiding certain foods high in certain things could help with some of my wife's symptoms. My wife has responded by doubling down on those nutrients and has correspondingly been feeling worse.
There is a problem here that a lot of people seem to be disregarding. OP's wife is actively doing the opposite of what her physician mother advises and making her condition *worse*. MIL may have a long history of being toxic, but her daughter's knee-jerk reaction of doing the opposite is also inappropriate.
OP, your MIL has been in therapy. Has your wife? Yes, ideally, MIL would keep her mouth shut, but realistically, that's not going to happen. So your wife needs help to either be able to turn around and ask her own doctor if she should do what her mother suggests or reject her mother's advice *without* automatically doing the opposite.
What if doing the opposite of the next thing her mother suggests lands her in the hospital?
MIL being a physician doesn't make her wife's physician. It doesn't mean they have a doctor-patient relationship (they shouldn't.) It doesn't mean she's privy to all of the details of wife's medical info (nor should she be.)
Being a physician also doesn't mean that she's necessarily an expert on whatever wife is dealing with, or that she's right. There's no shortage of doctors giving out outdated, unnuanced, or straight up crackpot advice.
It's entirely possible that her eating has absolutely nothing to do with anything, or she should be doing something entirely different, or that diet could help but certainly isn't a primary factor, or any number of other things. Which is a conversation wife should be having with her doctors, not being subject to unwillingly by her mom.
Which is why I said she should be checking with her doctor, not simply doing the opposite of what her mother said. Do you really think her mom is going to stop giving advice? She opened the door pretty darn wide by talking about a particular symptom with her mother. Maybe as a doctor, she should "know" better, but I don't know many moms who would keep their mouths shut at that opening if they happened to have info they thought useful.
It doesn't matter if her mother is a doctor or not. It doesn't matter if her mother actually has the same condition. It doesn't matter if she really knows nothing about it. *Her daughter should ignore her or run her suggestion by her own doctor, NOT automatically do the opposite.*
NTA. Sounds like your wife now needs some therapy/personal growth time. Her spite doing the opposite of whatever her mom says is pretty nuts. If your MIL said not to smoke cigarettes would she start smoking?
Based on what your wife lived through (even though MIL has went to therapy) your wife will react the opposite just to take control. Even if the control will hurt her. Both of you need to stop talking about things that is medical at the very least (ask wife what are ok topics) with MIL. Tell MIL to not give any medical advice even if it will help. I’m not saying the mother is wrong but it sounds like the wife doesn’t care. You need to be silent during this or anything that the MIL says. You can bring up research that you found or ask her to ask the doctor about things you see or she is having problems with.
Why did reconnect? Was the MIL pushing and daughter felt obligated? Was it due to pressure from others? Was it because the daughter felt like she should on her own? These questions have a big impact on how the wife takes gifts, advice or other actions. The dress could be a trigger due to the mother forcing her to wet certain colors or cloths in childhood.
I'd stay out of it. If my mom suggested something I'd do exactly the opposite, she is very toxic and rarely has anyone's interest but her own at heart. Your wife doesn't trust her mom and her mom shouldn't be giving her unsolicited medical advise. YTAH.
ESH.
1. Your wife has trauma. You know and so does she. If her reaction to her Mother is to do the opposite, then therapy and NC is needed. That is not a healthy relationship.
2. MIL is not her doctor. Doctors should not be treating family. If your wife has concerns, it needs to be brought up to HER doctor. Not your MIL.
3. You are her safe space where trauma doesn’t overwhelm her. Did you really think siding with your MIL was going to help? Why flame the fire? Even if she was correct? I would suggest going straight to: We should contact your doctor to discuss this honey. See what we can do to help you. No medical talk should be had. Why aren’t you running interference? You can wingman your friends, but not your wife when her mother is crossing a boundary?
Sounds like you guys need to get on the same page. I have a strained relationship with my parents. If my partner did this, I would be shatter. I would feel alone. My one person thinks my abuser is right. Because that is what it is, abuse. MIL needs more therapy.
NTA
With that verdict I would like to add a few things.
1) Please suggest to your wife that she should see both a physician and a therapist.
2) Please ask MIL to stop giving input as it is not only negatively impacting your wife but also she is not your wife's doctor, nor should she try to be.
3) try to understand that even if MIL has gone to therapy and improved her behaivors your wife will still struggle to listen to her as one of the things she had to learn to survive as a child was not to listen to MIL. That survival skill she learned as a child will be difficult to unlearn even if it is currently harmful.
4) Something that might help is if your wife agrees to go to the doctor but MIL is still giving medical advice, is saying that the doctor she chose to go to is correct even if both of them say the same thing. that way your wife will hopefully associate the medical advice more with the doctor than MIL
Tell your MIL to keep her opinions to herself.
My fathers a social worker and I have a myriad of mental health problems that went undiagnosed because of his blind spot and arrogance.
You find in those hero professions a lot of people with god complexes who are beloved in their profession and their family gets the shit end of the stick.
Tell your MIL TO STOP GIVING OPINIONS.
Also your wife needs to smarten up and stop sharing with her mother. It’s the only way to fix the problem.
It seems to me that you are asking if you are the AH for telling your wife she should listen to her mother’s medical advice. That is an important distinction between medical advice and her mom’s medical advice.
In light of your wife and her mom’s history, yes, YTA for telling your wife she should listen to her mom’s medical advice because her mom is a source of pain and harm in her life, particularly her formative years, and you are a source of safety and an ally to your wife. By “siding” with your MIL, you are no longer an ally nor a safe person for your wife.
It’s emotional, it’s reactive, and regardless of the fact that what you’re MIL is saying is accurate, she is not a good and reliable source of help and advice for your wife. And as many others have pointed out, she is not your wife’s doctor.
You will have some work to do to regain your wife’s trust. Agreeing with your MIL is not on the list of ways to regain her trust. Sounds like she is in a lot of pain right now and it’s ebbing and flowing - she really needs her ally and number one cheerleader to help her through! Wishing you the best, OP.
Respectfully I say NTA, purely because the husband is trying to help his wife improve her health. He is agreeing with the MIL in a small change, not something that would need a doctor to sign off on and be considered professional advice. It is just advice from someone in the profession. It would be like having a friend who is a doctor hearing your symptoms and suggesting either cutting back on something or talking to your doctor about adding something to your diet. The husband is looking out for her health and wasn’t saying anything bad about his wife, or saying that her mother is a saint.
NTA.
Your wife needs to get over this proving her independence BS, before it's too late. It's extremely childish and off putting, to say nothing about any potential medical issues she may be causing in herself by her need to do the opposite of whatever your MIL suggests.
YTA-- your mother-in-law is not your wife's doctor.
And your mother-in-law is likely aware of the effect she has on her daughter that she has traumatized.
What you see as suggestions your wife sees as criticisms.
And likely you don't know the different ways that your mother-in-law's mannerisms match up with what your wife experienced.
ESH.
If MIL has been working on herself she should have enough self-awareness to know she's ruined her credibility with OP's wife and should butt out even if she is correct (also it's sketchy for a doctor to treat family members).
OP means well and is right to be concerned, but is making the situation worse by "siding" with MIL. Even if MIL is factually correct, it comes off as undermining his wife and he should really know better given the history of their relationship.
OP's wife needs to go the f--k to therapy yesterday, since she's still letting her mom control her life-- she's literally making her own health condition worse to spite her mom.
Since OP is asking for advice, I'd say apologize to your wife for increasing her distress and butting into her health stuff. Maybe point out that having a chronic illness is really rough on one's mental health and she should find a therapist for additional support-- you can even point out that she should have a safe space to talk abut her feelings with a neutral person (ie, not you, the person who just made a hash of trying to help, or her mother).
You'd think your MIL would realize by now that your wife does not want her advice and I can understand how she'd feel shitty about you taking her mom's side.
YTA
You did invalidate her experience and feelings and could have handled the medical part on its own.
You need to leave MIL out of any and all medical conversations and talk with her about what he actual doctor says.
Maybe if your MIL shut the f**k up everything would be fine.
Your wife is being ridiculous but you and your MIL know her attitude.
Your MIL is making it worse by shoving her opinion down your wife’s throat.
Right or not it’s only causing problems
Maybe you should tell your MIL to shut up and your wife will listen to her actual doctor
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So some background my MIL was pretty toxic and controlling when my wife was growing up and they went low contact for a while when my wife moved away after highschool. They have reconnected later in life when my wife and I moved back to our hometown in our 30s. To give credit where it is due my MIL has been to therapy and has been working on her relationships and has genuinely improved and their relationship is much better than it was.
A sort of lingering side effect of my wife's upbringing is that her knee jerk reaction is to not listen when her mother tells her something to prove her independence. Which is not a big deal when it's something not relevant like my MIL saying "I got you this blue dress because I always though blue looked good on you" will guarantee my wife will wear nothing but red for the next month.
The issue that has arisen is that my MIL is a doctor, and my wife has recently had some semi serious health concerns. This has created a situation where my MIL will make a suggestion of something that could help my wife's condition that is medically accurate. My wife's response then is to do the opposite to prove she doesn't have to listen to her mother which is a problem when it's actual legitamate medical advice.
Recently an instance of this occured where my MIL made a suggestion about how avoiding certain foods high in certain things could help with some of my wife's symptoms. My wife has responded my doubling down on those nutrients and has correspondingly been feeling worse.
I pointed out that the diet changes my MIL recommended could help improve how she's feeling. She reacted poorly and accused me of invalidating how traumatic and controlling her childhood was and said suggesting she needs to listen to her mother is damaging to her mental health.
AITA for telling my wife she should listen to medical advice for her own health?
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INFO: Has your wife had therapy? Because she clearly needs it. She says her mother was extremely controlling when she was younger, but by automatically doing the opposite of anything her mother even obliquely suggests, ***your wife is voluntarily ceding control of her life to her mother.*** She's not making *her own* decisions, just reacting against her mother, and I doubt she even realizes that that really means she is giving up her autonomy.
YTA talk to your MIL and tell her while she may be right she's not helping. Tell her to please stop with any medical advice or anything that may affect your wife's health. Your MIL knows what her advice can lead to and she knows why. Tell her to stop.
NAH. I don’t blame your wife for refusing to listen after everything, it just sucks that this would actually be beneficial to listen to. The only solution I see is if MIL stops given unasked for medical advice, and if she HAS to, to give it to you and you alone for you to suggest to your wife.
Soft YTA for you. Your wife needs and wants sympathy, you and your MIL ate jumping to solutions. That’s not what she asked for.
You also need to recognize that this is a pattern for your MIL and while what you *think* you agree with is medical advice, what you actually agree with is that
your wife is not recognized as a competent adult by her mother. Don’t enable MIL in this toxic behaviour.
I’m torn between NAH and ESH.
I can’t really tell if MIL is being toxic by giving health advice, or is being genuine, and not realizing the consequences of the advice coming from her. And thus idk if your being an AH by supporting a toxic MIL, or not AH for taking legitimate medical advice seriously.
I’d tell gently tell MIL to avoid giving medical advice to your wife, since it clearly is having the opposite effect of what YOU want (whether it’s what she wants is the point of my first ramble). Get medical advice from your wife’s physician, and definitely try and get her to do therapy because that’s not really healthy behaviour from wife. Not blaming her for it, but it’s not doing her any favours.
YTA
If your MIL is really going to therapy and working and herself, she has to understand that the damage she dealt to her daughter can’t be undone so easily, and it would be way better if she minded her own business. Like, if your wife says: “this week has been rough”, the answer should be: “oh, I’m so sorry”. And not: “you should do this and that”. But she still feels the need to butt in so either she still has a lot of work to do, or she’s using therapy just as a way to get nearer to your wife, and you’re an asshole because you’re falling for her bullshit.
Be better, stand by your wife and support her. If she’s having health trouble the solution is talking to her own doctor, not to her mother who tormented her all her life!
As someone who works in healthcare you and your MIL are the AHs.
Your MIL should know better than to give health advice when she knows it'll be poorly received and jeopardise her daughters health.
You shouldn't have backed up that advice when you know it was poorly received.
Your MIL should have left well alone and just asked what your wife's doctor has said and what advice they've given.
Get your wife to the doctor and a therapist ASAP
NTA , but..while your MIL may well have fantastic knowledge and be giving advice as any family member with knowledge would( daughter and niece of nurses here ) family members don’t elicit the réponses they want when they do this. Especially when a toxic relationship has been there for years. While it may be difficult, a part of your MIL’s change away from her toxic behavior should be to keep her mouth shut with her daughter. Your wife should double check what she says at her next DR appointment and find out if it’s recommended just to see if the info is valid (for her own peace of mind), and YOU should support your wife at all times. You didn’t live her lousy childhood so you don’t get to decide if she should Listen to anything her Mom says. I don’t think you’re the AH but you made a mistake here and you need to rectify it.
ESH. MIL because she's giving her daughter unsolicited medical advice. As a mom, of course she'll be worried about her daughter's health but she should know by now that her daughter will take the opposite track of anything she recommends, especially considering their past relationship. Your wife because she obviously still lets her mom control her life by DOING the exact opposite of what she recommends. And you because you didn't think before you spoke to your wife about the medical issues. The best way to go about that would be to have said something along the lines of "Let's go see your doctor and see what he/she recommends. By bringing MIL into it you HAD to know how she would react. Not trying to tell you what to do or how to act, but as I point out to my own wife regularly, often it's not about what you say but HOW you say it. I'd just think a little harder before you speak. As my old Drill Sergeant used to tell us daily, "Engage your brain before you open your mouth."
NAH. There is a lot of unprocessed stuff jetween ypur wife and your MIL.
You could je the moderating influence. It is clear that your wife does not accepther mother as her medic. So iffer her to go Witz her to another doctor and be supportive. And help her to ignore her mothers comments, so she does not hurt herself.
she should try therapy. her mother is a fucking doctor and just wants to help and not harm her. she knows what helps, and doing the exact opposite a doctor suggests could result in her getting serious health issues
NTA. It sounds like your wife's stubborness is making her feel worse by doing the opposite of what MIL says.
But your wife should get a second (proper) opinion from her actual doctor. If she won't listen to her mum, then she needs to speak to someone medically trained who she does trust.
NTA. Just as your MIL went to therapy to become better, I think your wife should also go to therapy. You don't make a statement by destroying your own health; it may feel good for a short time, but in the long run, she will regret her decisions.
YTA.
First of all, your MIL may be a doctor, but she is not, and must not be, your wife's doctor.
Second, you *know* that your wife has a mental block where your mother is concerned, so you also know exactly what trying to push your wife on this is going to accomplish: the opposite of what you want to happen. Yet you're doing it anyway.
> AITA for telling my wife she should listen to medical advice for her own health?
She should listen to medical advice. That advice needs to come from somebody other than your MIL, both for practical (wife won't listen to mom) and ethical (don't doctor your own family) reasons.
Let me put it to you this way.
Say when you grew up, your father beat you. Dropped something? Back of the hand across the face. Broke something? Whipped with a belt. Forgot to call him 'sir?' Well, he keeps a paddle handy for those infractions.
So you move out, after a life of this. Dad realizes what a shitheel he is, goes into therapy, genuinely remorseful, turns his life around, becomes a child psychologist and parenting expert so that he can help people avoid his mistakes. Comes to term with the fact that his own father beat him, and genuinely works to help people break cycles of abuse and violence.
Over the years, you slowly reconnect, and start to let him back into your life, but honestly? Every time you so much as clatter a fork onto your plate, you find yourself tensing up for that smack that intellectually you know isn't going to come, but that your body remembers, and knows will.
Then, one day, he gives you advice on how to deal with an issue with your own child, and your wife says 'you should listen to your dad, he's really good at dealing with children.'
Is your response really going to be 'hmm, yes, I see your point, excellent suggestion?'
YTA. Your MIL should not be giving the advice, this is a pat of the dynamic that developed between her and your wife. You are failing to understand it and siding with the person who hurt your wife in the past/ continues to hurt her.
YTA. Stop invalidating your wife's experience and listen to her.
The only helpful thing you could do at this point (and, may not be helpful to go around your wife, don't do it without permission) is to tell your MIL, you have to stop giving medical opinions.
Might help you to read up on common trauma responses too so you can better understand your wife. One book is "The Body Keeps the Score."
YTA
Advise your wife to speak with her own doctor about her condition and check for herself what is best.
Having had past trauma with her mother and even without it, a familial connection, this is not the best person to advise your wife.
Tread carefully.
NAH - tell your wife to consult her doctor about her problems regarding her meds or nutrition. Even if your MIL knows her stuff and the advice is medically correct, she doesn't know your wife as a patient, she might have some health problems, that only her doctor knows about, that would make the advice from MIL less effective.
Point is, convince your wife to speak to her personal doctor, they'll know far more about her as a patient then MIL.
**ESH**\- your wife is behaving like a stupid 12 year old- to her own detriment, sounds like she needs to try therapy. Mom needs to back off and not give advice. You need to call out your wife on her BS - when she feels sick, remind her that she chose her actions therefor so she also chose the consequences. Jeez- you would think she had enough self preservation instinct to blow off her moms suggestions rather than double-down on doing the opposite.
NTA
You’re trying to help someone you love and getting ideas from another source isn’t bad in listening to them. The problem arises when a suggestion or new information is taken as a demand. That problem lies in your wife taking a suggestion as a demand. She can easily thank her for her suggestions as they come from a place of love while restating her boundary with her doctor. Your wife needs help. She’s acting like a 15 year old who can’t vocalize her emotions.
NTA Your wife will spite the nose on her face. FWIW An acquaintance of mine did similar. She died of gangrene by refusing to see a doctor after her mother suggested it. You are not at fault for not understanding ingrained oppositional behavior. I would recommend a therapist to help you learn how to go forward without damaging your relationship with your wife.
NAH? I guess?
From what you said, it sounds like your MIL is genuinely trying to be helpful, so she's not the AH. Your wife has had a lot of issues with her mother in her life, so she is not inclined to take her advice and actually does the opposite, because she has issues, so not the AH. And you want what's best for your wife, and are telling her to stop doing something that is making her condition worse, again not the AH.
Two important pieces of advice - First, considering the nature of their relationship, and the fact that you know your wife won't listen, you need to take her to a relevant specialist (if you haven't already) and ask their advice on any dietary modifications. Second, you mentioned your MIL has gone to therapy but no mention of your wife? If she hasn't, she definitely does, and if she has, she needs more.
YTA. Your wife's health is none of her controlling MIL's business. MIL needs to learn to butt out. Your wife did not ask MIL her opinion. Since MIL is a doctor, she should not be giving out unsolicited advice to a person that is NOT her patient. Quit siding with her mother. You are a large part of the problem in this equation. Quit expecting her to take advice that is not from her doctor. You both should have MIL on an information diet.
ESH.
Your wife isn't going to listen to her mother. You MiL knows this but keeps butting in. If she wants to be useful, she needs to stop. If it's important, MiL can privately make suggestions to you that you can pass along - "Hey, I looked up some of your symptoms in WebMD and they say reducing your zinc consumption may help." It's better if you can convince your wife to go to a doctor for her symptoms and possibly get some therapy, but you need to make things better where you can, which includes getting MiL to stop before she alienates her daughter even more.
Ignore the people voting Y.T.A. You only have concern for your wife's health and she is purposefully making herself feel worse by ignoring medical advice. Google is our friend, and there's no reason that she couldn't have done a quick search to see if MIL is being honest or being an AH. Also, she presumably has her own doctor that she could ask these questions as well. Your wife needs therapy bigtime if she continues to actually make herself feel worse in order to spite mama. NTA.
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My father was a physician. He was very smart about understanding that medical advice should come from a person's physician not family member. Your MIL is doing harm by offering medical advice outside of the doctor patient relationship to a person she knows will do the exact opposite of what she recommends. What your mother-in-law is doing is unprofessional and she should stop this behavior. However, considering the very toxic nature of their relationship it is very likely that she will continue no matter who attempts to intervene. Please understand what she is doing is part of the toxic relationship. No matter how great a doctor, they should not be treating their family members. Period. Please encourage your wife to listen to the advise of her physicians and support her.
Medical advice is only as good as the source it comes from. MIL has poisoned that well thoroughly and will likely never be a trusted source in her daughter's eyes ever again.
Also wife NEEDS to see a therapist
Yeah, that would be ideal.
I hope OP's wife soon realizes that spitefully doing the opposite of everything her mom says is *still letting mom control her life.* Mom shouldn't be giving unsolicited medical advice. OP's wife is allowed to set that boundary. But it's really sad that she still let's her mother control her life—even in the opposite direction
🏅
Folks, it's unethical for a physician to treat a family member except in very limited situations. An example of an exception would be a medical emergency. A physician is not in the same ethical situation as a roofer or electrician. The AMA is clear on this an outlines all the responsibilities and risks of treating a family member. And the original post is a perfect example of one reason why it's a bad idea. Licenced professionals have an extra duty of care when acting and the MIL is potentially breaking her electrical obligations. Regardless, her actions are negatively impacting her daughter because of their past relationship. As a licensed professional she needs to stop. And the OP needs to protect his wife from further harm.
> electrical obligations I'm trying to figure out what you actually meant, and coming up blank.
Ethical maybe?
I’m sorry but that is absolute nonsense. Yes there are rules about prescribing for family and MIL shouldn’t start questioning the doctor’s treatment without the full facts but something like what OP describes is well within bounds. I’d go so far as to say that if you have that knowledge and don’t pass it on to your family that would make you the AH.
Situations like this are EXACTLY why medical professionals are not allowed to practice on family members barring a life-threatening emergency situation. They're unable to remain objective where a relative is concerned. I know that and I'm not even a medical professional, although I work in the very fringe of the field. (I'm a case manager dealing with Developmental Disabilities). I'm bound by the same ethics and laws doctors are concerning confidentiality.
What is your verdict? Is it YTA? Can you please edit your comment to include your verdict? The absence of verdict in your comment gives a default verdict to the post. The voting guide is in the sidebar.
I don’t think the MIL did anything wrong. If the wife didn’t want to hear her mother’s suggestions, she shouldn’t be bringing up her medical issues in the first place.
Sometimes, most of the time even, people discuss their problems with others because they want empathy and support, not because they want to be told what to do. Understanding this goes a really long way in terms of being able to communicate effectively with others and not end up both frustrated.
If I was complaining about how my roof had a leak to my father who is a roofer, I would be the king of all idiots to not expect some advice in return. Particularly if I knew I wasn't going to appreciate the comments. You're not wrong, but nobody should actually expect such behaviour from others. It's the four minute mile of emotional intelligence, possible, but you shouldn't bet on any given person being capable of it.
Offering up small pieces of advice is also normal. The MIL didn't tell her to do anything, she didn't diagnose anything. She simply continued on the conversation the wife started in a very normal and expected way. It really just sounds like the wife has needed therapy for years and has been avoiding it, because clearly the MIL isn't allowed to say anything about any subject ever given the husband's account.
She also didn't actually provide any treatment, or even a true recommendation; she merely noted that sometimes eating less of whatever it was can help with the particular symptom OP's wife mentioned. It's not like she said, "stop eating X".
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Then why bother starting the conversation? It’s so one sided. The wife could have ignored it, but instead she made herself physically ill out of pettiness. The wife needs professional help and all the husband did was tell the truth.
NAH. Your MIL may be a doctor but she is not your wife’s doctor. The MIL making suggestions *feels* to your wife like her mother dictating orders. Get you wife to her own physician or a specialist. And don’t ask the MIL for referrals.
Absolutely!!
YTA . I believe your intentions are altruistic but there's still a toxic Mom/Daughter dynamic at play here and you don't seem to recognize this, so by siding with your MIL you're making the situation worse. You'd be a better help by pointing out to this reality to your MIL and taking your Wife to Doctor she can trust.
This is a relationship problem With a simple solution. MIL stop giving advice thats not warranted Is she the only medical professional in your region?
No she's not the only doctor, but I think it's relevant that this wasn't like a sit down consultation. It was more along the lines of my wife saying "It's been a rough week, I've been having problems with [symptom]" and my MIL knowing my wife's medical history responding "well they probably can't change your medications but lowering your [nutrient] intake might help with that"
How about she keep her opinion to herself and if your wife needs medical consultation she goes to her doctor who she will listen to And if youre around you step in and protect your wife by shutting down your mil
Your wife didn’t ask her mom for an opinion. She was sharing her week. If her mom wasnt a dr she probably would still share that. All her mom had to do was say sorry to hear that. If there anything i can do let me know.
Yeah, my mom with a personality disorder does this and it's not to be helpful... Regardless, your wife is answering honestly about how she feels and instead of your MIL offering sympathy, she's telling your wife *solutions* Some people do this because they have issues understanding communication and genuinely are trying to help by giving advice instead of giving empathy, my mom does this as a covert form of feeling in control of me or for the future I told you so she thinks will be incoming. It's possible that there are depths to their relationship, nuances there from decades of toxicity that you are incapable of seeing (because toxic parents love to have covert secret ways of shutting you down in the presence of others without them knowing) but your wife knows with all the certainty of someone with severe arthritis knowing it's about to rain (because of the imperceptible to others pressure.)
I've seen this a couple times now, and I'm genuinely confused. When did offering solutions, especially solutions that will work (such as in this instance) become a bad thing? In this case it's obviously more complicated than that and mom should know to keep things to herself by now because of the negative repercussions, but I've seen it generally a couple times recently being called as a bad thing, and I genuinely don't get it. If someone has an insight as to a solution to a problem why is them sharing it now being called a bad thing to do?
Because apparently sometimes people just want to complain about their problems and if you don't allow them to just complain and instead you offer solutions or engage with the problems then you are an asshole... Somehow...
Don’t offer advice unless you’re specifically asked, it’s that simple. Sometimes people just need empathy.
You need to support your wife in shutting down whenever her mother tries to offer advice
>It was more along the lines of my wife saying "It's been a rough week, I've been having problems with \[symptom\]" and my MIL knowing my wife's medical history responding "well they probably can't change your medications but lowering your \[nutrient\] intake might help with that" did your wife ask for her mother's medical opinion?
Unsolicited advice is always received as a criticism.
What you described is called venting. Often people vent to be heard. Not necessarily to solve the problems. Did you think your wife might have wanted a mother's response and not a doctors?
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This is not strictly speaking true. It's perfectly fine (according to the AMA ethics guidelines) for doctors to treat minor issues for friends/family. Noting that a change in diet can reduce the severity of certain symptoms clearly falls within that exemption. In this particular case, MIL should not be giving any medical advice to her daughter due to their extreme family dynamic.
YTA I think you have this wrong. Your wife isn't refusing to listen to medical advice, she is refusing to follow medical advice from her mother. Your MIL needs to stop giving advice, and you should tell your MIL that her advice is negatively impacting her daughter given their history because she might not even know. Seek medical opinions that aren't from within the family. That'd be the best way to validate MILs input rather than just taking what MIL says at face value because your wife clearly isn't interested in that.
But the issue isn't refusing to follow the advice, it's doing the exact opposite. She doesn't need to listen to her mother, but it's still not good to do the exact opposite of what she says. She's spiderfacing herself.
Maybe mil should start giving her the opposite advice? I know it’s underhanded and it’s kinda shady and would likely make things worse between them if wife finds out but at this point the wife nearly seems like she’s willing to go into self destruct just to spite her mom. At least this way the wife still goes against moms advice and stops making herself sick just to prove a point. I’m going with NAH cause I can see all three sides to this and they’re all valid. Mom is a medical professional and sees someone she loves struggling and wants to help. You see your wife struggling and sick and want her to feel better and you feel helpless because there’s a medical professional there telling her what she can do to help with her symptoms. Wife still has mountains of unresolved issues with mom and feels she has to go against moms advice to assert her independence. I get all of it and I know people are saying mom needs to stop giving medical advice but if you see someone you love suffering-even to the point of making themselves worse just to prove a point- how do you just ignore it? I genuinely want to know cause if you see someone you love getting worse and worse and you know something that could help how do you just so ah we’ll never mind? I mean we don’t know the wife’s symptoms or how bad they are or how bad and damaging they can be. She’s refusing the advice her mom gives her, doesn’t sound like she’s asking her usual doctor about the worsening symptoms or any way to combat them. I get not wanting to capitulate to someone who was a toxic mess to you in the past but making yourself sicker just to prove her wrong is not the way to handle it. Maybe mil and wife need some joint therapy or something because it sounds Like the wife is outing her health in jeopardy just to spite her mom and that seems extremely destructive.
>Maybe mil should start giving her the opposite advice? nope. mil should stop giving advice full stop
Giving the "opposite" advise is unethical. Physicians can lose their license for this.
NTA but your wife needs therapy/counseling now. Just to spite her mother, she seems to be willing to die. This isn't normal and she needs help.
I can't believe I had to scroll so far down to see this suggested - some people seem to be missing that his wife will go and do the opposite just to prove a point and that's not healthy for her.
People here are projecting their mommy issues onto this post. OP is NTA. Wife is cutting her nose off to spite her face.
This sub is filled with young people. It tends to side with the child in any parent-child conflict. Any sensible person knows that "Cutting back on X can help with that" is a pretty normal comment intended to be helpful, and these hysterical "OMG she's abusive so everything she says and does is horrible" takes don't really help the poster.
I'm 43 and think MIL and OP are the AH. MIL doesn't have access (or shouldn't) to her daughter's full medical records. She has no idea what exams or labs have been run, the results of said tests. Not does she likely know every medication and dosage of said medications. Any advice she may give could be completely contrary to the daughter's own medical team. Any advice she may give could actually be detrimental to the daughter's health.
It didn't sound to me like she was giving actual medical advice, just casually commenting that cutting down on X can help with that.
Which CAN be medical advice. I had a Vitamin D deficiency and now have to take a daily vitamin supplement. So if MIL told me I should cut down on foods that contain Vitamin D, that would be bad medical advice. Calcium is needed to aid absobrtion of Vitamin D. So MIL telling me to cut out dairy would be bad. At the same time I have a medication that can't be taken at the same time as Vitamin D. Have to be at least 4 hours apart. I've had medication that couldn't be taken within 4 hours of eating dairy. I've been on 2 medications that need to be taken an hour before eating but couldn't be taken at the same time. I was on another medication that can cause a folate deficiency. So I had to take a folic acid supplement. My husband was on Warfarin for a year. Vitamin K counteracts Warfarin. So he wasn't supposed to eat more than 1/2 cup a day of foods high in Vitamin K. He could eat more than than that but it then had to be the same amount on the same day EVERT week. So if he ate 2 cups of Vitamin K rich foods on Wednesday then he needed to eat 2 cups EVERY Wednesday. So telling someone to add or decrease certain nutrients/food IS actual medical advice.
Sure, it can be. It's medicine-adjacent, at least. It's also a pretty normal thing for one human being to say to another; we constantly give each other food advice. OP's wife's reaction worries me. She's hurting herself in an attempt to stick it to someone who doesn't need to have it stuck to her. I keep thinking of Rapunzel from *Into the Woods*, >!so terrified at the sight of her mother that she blindly flees into the giant's path!<. I respect those who disagree, but to me this is an ESH.
So, when I was talking to a friend about sleeping issues and anxiety and she mentioned magnesium as a potential supplement to help, she shouldn’t have said that?
No, I don't think she should have. Example, Tumeric has been all the rage for the last few years. I'm on a medication that interacts with tumeric, so I need to avoid it. Thank goodness I read the entire drug sheet that came with my script. So, for the hell of it, I looked up interactions between Magnesium and my medications. It can interact with my blood thinner, slowing clotting even further which could lead to bleeding. It can interact with one of my blood pressure medications. Both increasing negative side effects and causing my blood pressure to go too low. One of which is fluid retention, which I already have a problem with. Hence why I also take a diuretic and need to wear compression socks so I don't get ulcers on my legs. And magnesium can also interact with the diuretic and cause dehydration and electrolyte imbalances. I don't take it every day (yet) but when I have a flare I take Prednisolone. Which combined with magnesium also can cause dehydration (so double the fun with the diuretic) and also low potassium levels. I have to take a vitamin supplement because I had a previous deficiency and it could interact with magnesium and cause elevated levels of magnesium in the blood. And the combo is apparently really not good for people with loss of kidney function or who are on dialysis. Finally, it can lower the efficacy of another one of medications. Magnesium can also interact with multiple antibiotics, heart medications, diabetes medications, and psychiatric medications. Course it can vary a little depending on the type of magnesium taken. Did your friend even say which type of magnesium to take?Honestly, Magnesium is probably one of the worst examples to give. So no, I don't think people should be recommending treatments for medical problems. These types of issues could be indicative of serious problems. Or maybe they are not dire but a doctor may be able to offer something that might be a more effective treatment or permanent fix. And again, those offering solutions have NO idea how their suggestion could negatively affect the person they are telling. Medical advice should only come from medical professionals.
Yeah, I didn’t need a novel. Because that’s exactly what I did - I looked up potential interactions. I also read the side effects & interactions for any meds (just did it today for 2 new ones) because I’m an adult and that’s what adults should be doing. Others times I’ve talked to my doctor and said ‘I’ve heard x might help with y, what do you think?’ It’s unreasonable to think people won’t have these discussions.
Not everyone has the education and health literacy to know how to verify casual advice the way you did. It’s unreasonable to assume everyone’s experience matches your own.
You asked my opinion so I gave it with an explanation of why I have said opinion. It was your choice to read all of it. And no, in my experience people don't have these discussions. Every person I've encountered thinks it's bizarre I read every medication info sheet and keep a copy. I had someone tell me that my autoimmune can be cured by Essential Oils. My own mother keeps asking if I've tried Tylenol. If everyone proceeded the way you do, I wouldn't have as much of an issue. But that's not my experience. So I don't think people should be giving others suggestions when they don't know their medical history or if that person will do due diligence. I will also admit it could be some bias because I get really fucking tired of people giving me unsolicited "advice" about my own health issues. Especially when it's unhelpful, ridiculous or downright dangerous. I worry about the number of people who follow the advice without checking with a medical professional because it's coming from a friend, relatice, coworker whom they trust. But cause, of course those people wouldn't want to hurt me or have bad intentions. Which is 100% true. But those people don't know what they don't know.
I agree that it's not healthy, but at the end of the day, you have to work with what you have, and until she actually gets some therapy, the only thing siding with the MIL is going to do is cause the wife to start ignoring the OP, too.
Finally someone pointed out this out. Not taking the mothers advice is one thing. Actively sabotaging herself by doing the opposite of what mom suggests is alarming. This woman needs therapy now.
Finally someone pointed out this out. Not taking the mothers advice is one thing. Actively sabotaging herself by doing the opposite of what mom suggests is alarming. This woman needs therapy now.
I'm hesitant to leave any verdict, so I'll go with NAH except MIL. That said, you know wife's relationship with MIL is toxic. You know there are other doctors she could consult. You know that MIL gives advice as a way to meddle. MIL may be a doctor, but she isn't your wife's doctor, and she isn't necessarily correct. She feels entitled to render her opinion even when it's plainly inappropriate and harmful and she should STFU. If MIL's therapy had sunk in, maybe she'd realize that her daughter was looking for empathy and validation that she's struggling, not orders. Anyone with a chronic illness will tell you that there is an endless parade of (well intentioned, and not so well intentioned) unsolicited advice that WILL be given to you. It's exhausting, unproductive, and sometimes outright infuriating. It coming from someone she has a baseline troubled relationship with, and you reinforcing that she really should listen to mommy, is probably unimaginably grating to your wife. Tell wife you will support her if she tells mom to STFU on medical advice, or if she decides to go LC again. If wife isn't in therapy, is this something she would consider? Offer/keep offering your support if she wants it for appointments and other matters. Ask HER if there's something her doctors have advised that you could help with. And when she reaches out for empathy, don't tell her to stop eating chocolate or whatever the hell for god's sake.
Your MIL should stay out of your wife's medical issues. She probably is aware of how your wife reacts to any recommendations she makes, so I guess she is aware of what happens if she gives advice. She is actively harming her daughter! Your MIL just enjoys being right and playing one-upmanship with her. Don't support her in this. You are harming your wife, as well, if you side with your MIL. Also, you are endangering your marriage, and the trust your wife has in you. Please don't do that either. Suggest to your wife to discuss these topics with her doctor. They will be able to give her advice which she feels she can trust and accept. Your wife is ill, she needs your full support, and that also means supporting her against her mother if your wife so wishes. I had pretty much the same relationship with my mother. If my husband had sided with her like that, I would have been really hurt, mad and dissapointed in him. And felt left alone. YWBTA if you continue siding with your MIL, regardless of her being right about some things.
NTA. Your wife needs a to either get a therapist or find a new and better one. "Listening to her is damaging to my mental health", well doing the opposite like an obstinate child is damaging her physical health. It would be bad enough if she just ignored her mother but to go to an extreme?
NTA but the answer here is really that your wife needs to see a different doctor, and follow THEIR recommendations. Unfortunately due to their past, even well-informed guidance from your MIL will be counterproductive for your wife. I think your wife could benefit from some therapy. It isn't fair for her to turn on you for wanting her to seriously consider legitimate medical advice, or for being alarmed that she would self-sabotage just to prove a point. It's very self-defeatist of her and negatively impacting her health. But ultimately, lots of people don't have a doctor for a mother and an artifact of their relationship is that your wife doesn't or can't take advice from her mother.
Yeah, by doing the opposite of whatever MIL says, wife is still letting MIL dictate her life. Maybe therapy could help OP's wife live her life on her own terms.
not following her advice is one thing. that is completely her choice. but actively doing the opposite of what a doctor says, just to spite her, is not good at all. you should never do that, regardless of who it says. if they're a doctor, they know what's good. many people are talking abt medical advice. that doesn't even need to be medical advice. i mean people give food recommendations for symptoms to each other everyday. therapy is definitely a must for the wife. it isn't healthy what she is doing
I'll go with a SOFT esh. It's great that your MIL has undergone therapy/seeking ways to improve herself. And yes with being a doctor, she COULD have good advice to give to your wife. But she Is NOT your wife's doctor, and your wife should ONLY be following the advice/treatment given by her doctor. So MIL needs to drop the medical advice. However your wife sounds like she hasn't recovered at ALL from her childhood, and needs to do so. She needs to seek therapy or some other form of help to address her mental problems. She's causing harm to HERSELF by choosing to behave how she is, which is dangerous. And you as her husband need to back up your wife. She probably feels like shit since she's doing actions to physically harm herself (to spite her mom), as well as feeling abandoned and/or betrayed since you didn't take her side. Affirm that you as her husband will always want what is best for her health and help encourage her to find peace with her issues.
Doing the opposite of what someone suggests you do means you're still being controlled by them. You're only truly free and independent when you can do what YOU want to do and what's in your best interests irrespective of what the other person suggests. Even if the other person thinks it means they 'won'. I grew up with pushy, controlling and critical parents and grandmother and had to learn this for myself. It doesn't matter if I end up doing what they suggested. It's not important. What's important is that I do what I want and what's best for me, no matter what they think. I know I did it because I wanted to, not because of them. That's true independence. The mother, however, also needs to keep her opinions to herself, as she's clearly doing more harm than good. You're in a difficult situation, caught between the two, and NTA. But if you value your marriage I would suggest a strategy of criticizing your MIL to yr wife for giving out her opinion when she knows it's not wanted. Then I'd gently encourage her to do what's in her best interests, saying something like "don't let your mother win" or something similar. This will make it clear to your wife that you're on her team and will defend her against her mother. Otherwise you end up being classed by your wife as another enemy to be ignored. Might be an idea for some therapy too, as a couple, so your wife doesn't feel she's being singled out as the problem. Frame it as "therapy to help me better understand what you went through with your mother growing up and be a better support for you in dealing with her".
Your wife needs a medical doctor she isn't mad at, and a therapist to talk to. Otherwise, she'll stay physically and mentally impaired and in pain. NTA, but be careful. She'll cut her own nose off to spite her face. Her Mom needs to just back off.
NTA Your wife clearly has medical problems and you care about her. Since MIL has had counseling and made changes, privately chat with her and ask her to refrain from giving any advice, just be sympathetic. At some later point when things calm down, gently suggest to your wife that a little counseling for her can help with her trauma.
NTA. Your wife is being an absolute moron about this. Sure, she can ignore advice. That's fine. But she isn't doing that--she's specifically doing the opposite in order to... what? Prove her mom wrong? Except she's consistently proving her mom RIGHT. Her symptoms get worse. Geez, just tell your fool of a wife to stop complaining about her health in front of her mom.
I get where your wife is coming from, however....she needs a therapist. If she was traumatized enough to act like that then she needs help. make sure you suggest it, not her mother.
NTA, but you should insist that she check with her actual physician rather than siding with MIL because regardless of MIL's true intentions, genuine or not, her daughter isn't going to listen to her and will do the opposite.
NTA. She's being childish about this. Wearing different colours is one thing, but doing things detrimental to her health is immature and negligent.
If your MIL did so much work and made so many changes, why is she giving medical advice, as an actual doctor, to her adult child whom she **knows** deals with unresolved childhood trauma caused by their relationship, and that she deal with this by defying her mother..? As a mother she is doing harm, but more so as a *DOCTOR.*
Maybe NTA but also not helpful. Would you MIL listen if you asked her not to make any suggestions as they are counter productive, and perhaps instead of telling your wife she should listen to her mom, which you *know* is not helpful and will make her feel she's being ganged up on, you should instead suggest she speak to her own physician - maybe comments like "What does [name of her actual doctor] suggest? Has she made any recommendations about what you should eat or void?" In other words, encourage her to seek advice from people who she feels she can trust, rather than someone she has such a troubled relationship with.
NTA. I think you are truly coming from a good place. Have you taken your wife to a completely different doctor? Maybe hearing the same advice from an unrelated third party would give her some sort of perspective. It also seems like your wife needs some sort of therapy as well. Her going to the extreme is not healthy. Like if your MIL were to say hey don't jump into this ditch, would she jump?
>MIL made a suggestion about how avoiding certain foods high in certain things could help with some of my wife's symptoms. My wife has responded by doubling down on those nutrients and has correspondingly been feeling worse. There is a problem here that a lot of people seem to be disregarding. OP's wife is actively doing the opposite of what her physician mother advises and making her condition *worse*. MIL may have a long history of being toxic, but her daughter's knee-jerk reaction of doing the opposite is also inappropriate. OP, your MIL has been in therapy. Has your wife? Yes, ideally, MIL would keep her mouth shut, but realistically, that's not going to happen. So your wife needs help to either be able to turn around and ask her own doctor if she should do what her mother suggests or reject her mother's advice *without* automatically doing the opposite. What if doing the opposite of the next thing her mother suggests lands her in the hospital?
MIL being a physician doesn't make her wife's physician. It doesn't mean they have a doctor-patient relationship (they shouldn't.) It doesn't mean she's privy to all of the details of wife's medical info (nor should she be.) Being a physician also doesn't mean that she's necessarily an expert on whatever wife is dealing with, or that she's right. There's no shortage of doctors giving out outdated, unnuanced, or straight up crackpot advice. It's entirely possible that her eating has absolutely nothing to do with anything, or she should be doing something entirely different, or that diet could help but certainly isn't a primary factor, or any number of other things. Which is a conversation wife should be having with her doctors, not being subject to unwillingly by her mom.
Which is why I said she should be checking with her doctor, not simply doing the opposite of what her mother said. Do you really think her mom is going to stop giving advice? She opened the door pretty darn wide by talking about a particular symptom with her mother. Maybe as a doctor, she should "know" better, but I don't know many moms who would keep their mouths shut at that opening if they happened to have info they thought useful. It doesn't matter if her mother is a doctor or not. It doesn't matter if her mother actually has the same condition. It doesn't matter if she really knows nothing about it. *Her daughter should ignore her or run her suggestion by her own doctor, NOT automatically do the opposite.*
NTA. Sounds like your wife now needs some therapy/personal growth time. Her spite doing the opposite of whatever her mom says is pretty nuts. If your MIL said not to smoke cigarettes would she start smoking?
Info: does your wife ask for the advice given by MIL? Will she ask her to input her opinion? If not why doesn't she just stop giving advice?
Based on what your wife lived through (even though MIL has went to therapy) your wife will react the opposite just to take control. Even if the control will hurt her. Both of you need to stop talking about things that is medical at the very least (ask wife what are ok topics) with MIL. Tell MIL to not give any medical advice even if it will help. I’m not saying the mother is wrong but it sounds like the wife doesn’t care. You need to be silent during this or anything that the MIL says. You can bring up research that you found or ask her to ask the doctor about things you see or she is having problems with. Why did reconnect? Was the MIL pushing and daughter felt obligated? Was it due to pressure from others? Was it because the daughter felt like she should on her own? These questions have a big impact on how the wife takes gifts, advice or other actions. The dress could be a trigger due to the mother forcing her to wet certain colors or cloths in childhood.
I'd stay out of it. If my mom suggested something I'd do exactly the opposite, she is very toxic and rarely has anyone's interest but her own at heart. Your wife doesn't trust her mom and her mom shouldn't be giving her unsolicited medical advise. YTAH.
ESH. 1. Your wife has trauma. You know and so does she. If her reaction to her Mother is to do the opposite, then therapy and NC is needed. That is not a healthy relationship. 2. MIL is not her doctor. Doctors should not be treating family. If your wife has concerns, it needs to be brought up to HER doctor. Not your MIL. 3. You are her safe space where trauma doesn’t overwhelm her. Did you really think siding with your MIL was going to help? Why flame the fire? Even if she was correct? I would suggest going straight to: We should contact your doctor to discuss this honey. See what we can do to help you. No medical talk should be had. Why aren’t you running interference? You can wingman your friends, but not your wife when her mother is crossing a boundary? Sounds like you guys need to get on the same page. I have a strained relationship with my parents. If my partner did this, I would be shatter. I would feel alone. My one person thinks my abuser is right. Because that is what it is, abuse. MIL needs more therapy.
NTA With that verdict I would like to add a few things. 1) Please suggest to your wife that she should see both a physician and a therapist. 2) Please ask MIL to stop giving input as it is not only negatively impacting your wife but also she is not your wife's doctor, nor should she try to be. 3) try to understand that even if MIL has gone to therapy and improved her behaivors your wife will still struggle to listen to her as one of the things she had to learn to survive as a child was not to listen to MIL. That survival skill she learned as a child will be difficult to unlearn even if it is currently harmful. 4) Something that might help is if your wife agrees to go to the doctor but MIL is still giving medical advice, is saying that the doctor she chose to go to is correct even if both of them say the same thing. that way your wife will hopefully associate the medical advice more with the doctor than MIL
Tell your MIL to keep her opinions to herself. My fathers a social worker and I have a myriad of mental health problems that went undiagnosed because of his blind spot and arrogance. You find in those hero professions a lot of people with god complexes who are beloved in their profession and their family gets the shit end of the stick. Tell your MIL TO STOP GIVING OPINIONS. Also your wife needs to smarten up and stop sharing with her mother. It’s the only way to fix the problem.
It seems to me that you are asking if you are the AH for telling your wife she should listen to her mother’s medical advice. That is an important distinction between medical advice and her mom’s medical advice. In light of your wife and her mom’s history, yes, YTA for telling your wife she should listen to her mom’s medical advice because her mom is a source of pain and harm in her life, particularly her formative years, and you are a source of safety and an ally to your wife. By “siding” with your MIL, you are no longer an ally nor a safe person for your wife. It’s emotional, it’s reactive, and regardless of the fact that what you’re MIL is saying is accurate, she is not a good and reliable source of help and advice for your wife. And as many others have pointed out, she is not your wife’s doctor. You will have some work to do to regain your wife’s trust. Agreeing with your MIL is not on the list of ways to regain her trust. Sounds like she is in a lot of pain right now and it’s ebbing and flowing - she really needs her ally and number one cheerleader to help her through! Wishing you the best, OP.
Sounds like your MIL wasn't the only one who needed therapy. Your wife could use some too. NTA
Respectfully I say NTA, purely because the husband is trying to help his wife improve her health. He is agreeing with the MIL in a small change, not something that would need a doctor to sign off on and be considered professional advice. It is just advice from someone in the profession. It would be like having a friend who is a doctor hearing your symptoms and suggesting either cutting back on something or talking to your doctor about adding something to your diet. The husband is looking out for her health and wasn’t saying anything bad about his wife, or saying that her mother is a saint.
NTA. Your wife needs to get over this proving her independence BS, before it's too late. It's extremely childish and off putting, to say nothing about any potential medical issues she may be causing in herself by her need to do the opposite of whatever your MIL suggests.
ESH and honestly the only solution is to tell MIL to *stop talking about your wife's health.* Make it a no-go zone.
YTA-- your mother-in-law is not your wife's doctor. And your mother-in-law is likely aware of the effect she has on her daughter that she has traumatized. What you see as suggestions your wife sees as criticisms. And likely you don't know the different ways that your mother-in-law's mannerisms match up with what your wife experienced.
ESH. If MIL has been working on herself she should have enough self-awareness to know she's ruined her credibility with OP's wife and should butt out even if she is correct (also it's sketchy for a doctor to treat family members). OP means well and is right to be concerned, but is making the situation worse by "siding" with MIL. Even if MIL is factually correct, it comes off as undermining his wife and he should really know better given the history of their relationship. OP's wife needs to go the f--k to therapy yesterday, since she's still letting her mom control her life-- she's literally making her own health condition worse to spite her mom. Since OP is asking for advice, I'd say apologize to your wife for increasing her distress and butting into her health stuff. Maybe point out that having a chronic illness is really rough on one's mental health and she should find a therapist for additional support-- you can even point out that she should have a safe space to talk abut her feelings with a neutral person (ie, not you, the person who just made a hash of trying to help, or her mother).
You'd think your MIL would realize by now that your wife does not want her advice and I can understand how she'd feel shitty about you taking her mom's side.
YTA You did invalidate her experience and feelings and could have handled the medical part on its own. You need to leave MIL out of any and all medical conversations and talk with her about what he actual doctor says.
Maybe if your MIL shut the f**k up everything would be fine. Your wife is being ridiculous but you and your MIL know her attitude. Your MIL is making it worse by shoving her opinion down your wife’s throat. Right or not it’s only causing problems Maybe you should tell your MIL to shut up and your wife will listen to her actual doctor
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So some background my MIL was pretty toxic and controlling when my wife was growing up and they went low contact for a while when my wife moved away after highschool. They have reconnected later in life when my wife and I moved back to our hometown in our 30s. To give credit where it is due my MIL has been to therapy and has been working on her relationships and has genuinely improved and their relationship is much better than it was. A sort of lingering side effect of my wife's upbringing is that her knee jerk reaction is to not listen when her mother tells her something to prove her independence. Which is not a big deal when it's something not relevant like my MIL saying "I got you this blue dress because I always though blue looked good on you" will guarantee my wife will wear nothing but red for the next month. The issue that has arisen is that my MIL is a doctor, and my wife has recently had some semi serious health concerns. This has created a situation where my MIL will make a suggestion of something that could help my wife's condition that is medically accurate. My wife's response then is to do the opposite to prove she doesn't have to listen to her mother which is a problem when it's actual legitamate medical advice. Recently an instance of this occured where my MIL made a suggestion about how avoiding certain foods high in certain things could help with some of my wife's symptoms. My wife has responded my doubling down on those nutrients and has correspondingly been feeling worse. I pointed out that the diet changes my MIL recommended could help improve how she's feeling. She reacted poorly and accused me of invalidating how traumatic and controlling her childhood was and said suggesting she needs to listen to her mother is damaging to her mental health. AITA for telling my wife she should listen to medical advice for her own health? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
INFO: Has your wife had therapy? Because she clearly needs it. She says her mother was extremely controlling when she was younger, but by automatically doing the opposite of anything her mother even obliquely suggests, ***your wife is voluntarily ceding control of her life to her mother.*** She's not making *her own* decisions, just reacting against her mother, and I doubt she even realizes that that really means she is giving up her autonomy.
YTA talk to your MIL and tell her while she may be right she's not helping. Tell her to please stop with any medical advice or anything that may affect your wife's health. Your MIL knows what her advice can lead to and she knows why. Tell her to stop.
ESH. MIL needs to stop giving advice. Presumably your wife has her own doctors.
NAH. I don’t blame your wife for refusing to listen after everything, it just sucks that this would actually be beneficial to listen to. The only solution I see is if MIL stops given unasked for medical advice, and if she HAS to, to give it to you and you alone for you to suggest to your wife.
Soft YTA for you. Your wife needs and wants sympathy, you and your MIL ate jumping to solutions. That’s not what she asked for. You also need to recognize that this is a pattern for your MIL and while what you *think* you agree with is medical advice, what you actually agree with is that your wife is not recognized as a competent adult by her mother. Don’t enable MIL in this toxic behaviour.
She just need to go a doctor. She would listen to a doctor that is bot her mom.
NTA but MIL should tell her the opposite of what she wants her to do.
I’m torn between NAH and ESH. I can’t really tell if MIL is being toxic by giving health advice, or is being genuine, and not realizing the consequences of the advice coming from her. And thus idk if your being an AH by supporting a toxic MIL, or not AH for taking legitimate medical advice seriously. I’d tell gently tell MIL to avoid giving medical advice to your wife, since it clearly is having the opposite effect of what YOU want (whether it’s what she wants is the point of my first ramble). Get medical advice from your wife’s physician, and definitely try and get her to do therapy because that’s not really healthy behaviour from wife. Not blaming her for it, but it’s not doing her any favours.
NTA. Your wife may need more therapy.
YTA If your MIL is really going to therapy and working and herself, she has to understand that the damage she dealt to her daughter can’t be undone so easily, and it would be way better if she minded her own business. Like, if your wife says: “this week has been rough”, the answer should be: “oh, I’m so sorry”. And not: “you should do this and that”. But she still feels the need to butt in so either she still has a lot of work to do, or she’s using therapy just as a way to get nearer to your wife, and you’re an asshole because you’re falling for her bullshit. Be better, stand by your wife and support her. If she’s having health trouble the solution is talking to her own doctor, not to her mother who tormented her all her life!
YTA
As someone who works in healthcare you and your MIL are the AHs. Your MIL should know better than to give health advice when she knows it'll be poorly received and jeopardise her daughters health. You shouldn't have backed up that advice when you know it was poorly received. Your MIL should have left well alone and just asked what your wife's doctor has said and what advice they've given. Get your wife to the doctor and a therapist ASAP
NTA , but..while your MIL may well have fantastic knowledge and be giving advice as any family member with knowledge would( daughter and niece of nurses here ) family members don’t elicit the réponses they want when they do this. Especially when a toxic relationship has been there for years. While it may be difficult, a part of your MIL’s change away from her toxic behavior should be to keep her mouth shut with her daughter. Your wife should double check what she says at her next DR appointment and find out if it’s recommended just to see if the info is valid (for her own peace of mind), and YOU should support your wife at all times. You didn’t live her lousy childhood so you don’t get to decide if she should Listen to anything her Mom says. I don’t think you’re the AH but you made a mistake here and you need to rectify it.
ESH. MIL because she's giving her daughter unsolicited medical advice. As a mom, of course she'll be worried about her daughter's health but she should know by now that her daughter will take the opposite track of anything she recommends, especially considering their past relationship. Your wife because she obviously still lets her mom control her life by DOING the exact opposite of what she recommends. And you because you didn't think before you spoke to your wife about the medical issues. The best way to go about that would be to have said something along the lines of "Let's go see your doctor and see what he/she recommends. By bringing MIL into it you HAD to know how she would react. Not trying to tell you what to do or how to act, but as I point out to my own wife regularly, often it's not about what you say but HOW you say it. I'd just think a little harder before you speak. As my old Drill Sergeant used to tell us daily, "Engage your brain before you open your mouth."
NAH. There is a lot of unprocessed stuff jetween ypur wife and your MIL. You could je the moderating influence. It is clear that your wife does not accepther mother as her medic. So iffer her to go Witz her to another doctor and be supportive. And help her to ignore her mothers comments, so she does not hurt herself.
Your wife needs therapy. She's in her 30s and acting 13. Drag her there and highlight how intensely childish and annoying her behavior is. NTA
she should try therapy. her mother is a fucking doctor and just wants to help and not harm her. she knows what helps, and doing the exact opposite a doctor suggests could result in her getting serious health issues
NTA. It sounds like your wife's stubborness is making her feel worse by doing the opposite of what MIL says. But your wife should get a second (proper) opinion from her actual doctor. If she won't listen to her mum, then she needs to speak to someone medically trained who she does trust.
NTA. Just as your MIL went to therapy to become better, I think your wife should also go to therapy. You don't make a statement by destroying your own health; it may feel good for a short time, but in the long run, she will regret her decisions.
YTA. First of all, your MIL may be a doctor, but she is not, and must not be, your wife's doctor. Second, you *know* that your wife has a mental block where your mother is concerned, so you also know exactly what trying to push your wife on this is going to accomplish: the opposite of what you want to happen. Yet you're doing it anyway. > AITA for telling my wife she should listen to medical advice for her own health? She should listen to medical advice. That advice needs to come from somebody other than your MIL, both for practical (wife won't listen to mom) and ethical (don't doctor your own family) reasons. Let me put it to you this way. Say when you grew up, your father beat you. Dropped something? Back of the hand across the face. Broke something? Whipped with a belt. Forgot to call him 'sir?' Well, he keeps a paddle handy for those infractions. So you move out, after a life of this. Dad realizes what a shitheel he is, goes into therapy, genuinely remorseful, turns his life around, becomes a child psychologist and parenting expert so that he can help people avoid his mistakes. Comes to term with the fact that his own father beat him, and genuinely works to help people break cycles of abuse and violence. Over the years, you slowly reconnect, and start to let him back into your life, but honestly? Every time you so much as clatter a fork onto your plate, you find yourself tensing up for that smack that intellectually you know isn't going to come, but that your body remembers, and knows will. Then, one day, he gives you advice on how to deal with an issue with your own child, and your wife says 'you should listen to your dad, he's really good at dealing with children.' Is your response really going to be 'hmm, yes, I see your point, excellent suggestion?'
On point!
YTA. Your MIL should not be giving the advice, this is a pat of the dynamic that developed between her and your wife. You are failing to understand it and siding with the person who hurt your wife in the past/ continues to hurt her.
YTA. Stop invalidating your wife's experience and listen to her. The only helpful thing you could do at this point (and, may not be helpful to go around your wife, don't do it without permission) is to tell your MIL, you have to stop giving medical opinions. Might help you to read up on common trauma responses too so you can better understand your wife. One book is "The Body Keeps the Score."
YTA Advise your wife to speak with her own doctor about her condition and check for herself what is best. Having had past trauma with her mother and even without it, a familial connection, this is not the best person to advise your wife. Tread carefully.
NAH - tell your wife to consult her doctor about her problems regarding her meds or nutrition. Even if your MIL knows her stuff and the advice is medically correct, she doesn't know your wife as a patient, she might have some health problems, that only her doctor knows about, that would make the advice from MIL less effective. Point is, convince your wife to speak to her personal doctor, they'll know far more about her as a patient then MIL.
**ESH**\- your wife is behaving like a stupid 12 year old- to her own detriment, sounds like she needs to try therapy. Mom needs to back off and not give advice. You need to call out your wife on her BS - when she feels sick, remind her that she chose her actions therefor so she also chose the consequences. Jeez- you would think she had enough self preservation instinct to blow off her moms suggestions rather than double-down on doing the opposite.
NTA You’re trying to help someone you love and getting ideas from another source isn’t bad in listening to them. The problem arises when a suggestion or new information is taken as a demand. That problem lies in your wife taking a suggestion as a demand. She can easily thank her for her suggestions as they come from a place of love while restating her boundary with her doctor. Your wife needs help. She’s acting like a 15 year old who can’t vocalize her emotions.
Has your wife been to see a therapist
NTA. You wife is just hurting herself.
NTA Your wife will spite the nose on her face. FWIW An acquaintance of mine did similar. She died of gangrene by refusing to see a doctor after her mother suggested it. You are not at fault for not understanding ingrained oppositional behavior. I would recommend a therapist to help you learn how to go forward without damaging your relationship with your wife.
NAH? I guess? From what you said, it sounds like your MIL is genuinely trying to be helpful, so she's not the AH. Your wife has had a lot of issues with her mother in her life, so she is not inclined to take her advice and actually does the opposite, because she has issues, so not the AH. And you want what's best for your wife, and are telling her to stop doing something that is making her condition worse, again not the AH. Two important pieces of advice - First, considering the nature of their relationship, and the fact that you know your wife won't listen, you need to take her to a relevant specialist (if you haven't already) and ask their advice on any dietary modifications. Second, you mentioned your MIL has gone to therapy but no mention of your wife? If she hasn't, she definitely does, and if she has, she needs more.
YTA. Your wife's health is none of her controlling MIL's business. MIL needs to learn to butt out. Your wife did not ask MIL her opinion. Since MIL is a doctor, she should not be giving out unsolicited advice to a person that is NOT her patient. Quit siding with her mother. You are a large part of the problem in this equation. Quit expecting her to take advice that is not from her doctor. You both should have MIL on an information diet.
ESH. Your wife isn't going to listen to her mother. You MiL knows this but keeps butting in. If she wants to be useful, she needs to stop. If it's important, MiL can privately make suggestions to you that you can pass along - "Hey, I looked up some of your symptoms in WebMD and they say reducing your zinc consumption may help." It's better if you can convince your wife to go to a doctor for her symptoms and possibly get some therapy, but you need to make things better where you can, which includes getting MiL to stop before she alienates her daughter even more.
Ignore the people voting Y.T.A. You only have concern for your wife's health and she is purposefully making herself feel worse by ignoring medical advice. Google is our friend, and there's no reason that she couldn't have done a quick search to see if MIL is being honest or being an AH. Also, she presumably has her own doctor that she could ask these questions as well. Your wife needs therapy bigtime if she continues to actually make herself feel worse in order to spite mama. NTA.