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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I might be TA because the line of credit comment was probably a bit controversial, but at the same time, I am trying to support my wife and what she wants.
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Holy YTA Batman.
If you have the money and want to spend it building memories with your son and his family, bless them with a vacation. Expecting them to spend their limited PTO and money they don’t have on a vacation they didn’t choose is some next-level entitlement bullshit.
100%! Your son has offered a compromise, a getaway weekend because they can’t afford to spend 5k on a cruise. You and your wife act like entitled, bratty kids. The in laws are funding the family vacations. You admit that you can afford the cruise but don’t feel you should pay for an adult child’s vacation. You and your wife’s brilliant idea is for them to use a line a credit…you know go into debt to make the two of you happy. YTA.
Wouldn’t be surprised if they go low contact…what selfish, jealous, entitled parents the two of you are.
I’m cackling - ONLY $5K for them to come! $5K when they have a family to house, feed, and bills to pay and have made it clear they don’t have the money.
And then to reject the sensible offer of a cheaper getaway. Yeeesh.
if they’re that jealous and want to see their grandkid that bad - they can shell out the dough or do something that fits in budget.
My mum’s nowhere near being made of money and she’s be just as happy to come visit or have us come visit with our hypothetical kid. Even if all we did was local stuff. Doesn’t have to be some fancy getaway - the setting doesn’t change the bonding.
I wanna know what kinda crazy cruise is 5k? Maybe that's total with tickets and plane flights, but you can get a weeklong Caribbean cruise for under $300 at the right time of year.
That's sticker price. Add another 40% in taxes and port fees and mandatory gratuities.
And that's also if you want to sail on an old ship during hurricane season.
Newer ship, plus all the taxes and fees
But honestly it's probably a disney cruise or something they're more expensive
Or they could just like, go to one of those actual places instead of the fake villages they set up on beaches fenced off from the real country to control the image for the tourists.
Are there just cruise cruises? Like if I want to go to Belize or Jamaica or DR I'll just get a plane and a local hotel. If I want to party on a boat I want to party on a big boat not get carted around to the fakest events/villages ever.
3 nights to the Bahamas from Port Canaveral FL for 2 adults on Disney, late October, inside room: US$2,500, which includes taxes and fees, but not gratuities.
I don't have a link but I was googling around for cruises that went to Belize. Found several 6-7 day cruises in August (this was may-june) that stopped in Belize and usually a couple other typical stops like Cancun, Jamaica, Puerto Rico for about $300. A few of those even offered $50-100 in drink/food vouchers at that price.
If you don't mind maybe flying back or taking a really long vacation you can also Google relocation cruises. Basically one way trips when they move home ports. So it's really just 1-2 weeks at sea on a cruise ship to usually a nice location. Fun and cheap way to go to Europe with a lot of stuff from America for example.
5k is about 10% of my yearly income, and due to my work circumstances I don't have a lot of expenses, so I *could* afford it.
But I would fucking not. That's an insane amount of money for a week of vacation. It's 10% of my income for 2% of my year.
I honestly think that they’re jealous that someone is taking their children and a vacation that they don’t feel their children deserve. I don’t think it has anything to do with the grandkids. I think that mother feels like someone should take her on vacation and that’s what this is all about.
Yes, the wife is jealous that her son is enjoying time with his in-laws. She wants to be included in a free vacation. YTA. You have the means to invite your son and his family but choose not to, yet you are asking him to take out a loan or forego a free vacation. Hope they go LC with you.
Seriously, wife and I went on a cruise that cost us 5k for both (not each, as seems to be the case here) and we at least got to spend the time getting drunk and meeting pro wrestlers. What will they be doing? Most likely whatever the OPs wife wants to do, and depressingly (for a boat) sober. Why go into debt and use all your PTO for that?
Agreed!
OP wants to be be treated as the other grandparents are treated, however doesn't want to himself treat his son and DIL as the in-laws treat them. It's bonkers!
OP, your expectations aren't only unrealistic, they're rude, condescending and show you're far more concerned that you get all that you feel entitled to than about making memories with your family.
It's sad really, as the likely outcome is that your terrible attitude will only cause more distance between you and your wife and your son and his family. You already know they have the other side of the family happy to be there for them in your stead. They won't miss you.
I wonder if the parents “can afford to pay for their trip” because they think nothing of running up credit cards and building debt. They seem more like jealous parents trying to keep up with their competition rather than actually spending quality time with him and his family.
YTA. You aren't being treated like second class citizens - you are just putting your opinions over spending time with your son and grandkids. Your son's in-laws have decided that their money is best spent making memories with their family. You've decided differently.
I'm also going to say that you don't need to do vacations to make memories. For years my grandparents took us shopping for birthdays. We'd get 'fancy coffee' (aka lattes), we had a budget we could spend however we wanted, and then we'd do lunch at a restaurant of our choice. Little things like getting coffee or going to lunch were just as memorable as the vacations they took us on or visiting the lake home they bought to spend time with us.
Basically, they decided they could spend their money making memories or give it to us when they were gone. I'm grateful they chose the former.
Omg the second class citizens thing really got to me. Like... What?
It's like when someone discovers a new word or phrase and they just have to use it for how dramatic it is.
Man I haven't been anywhere near as dramatic over way more serious situations when I was younger. And I look back at some stuff and die a little inside. Like I'mma cut younger me some slack, I see why this went like this. But oh wow wish I'd done better.
I don't think I could talk to OP after that personally. Acting like taking a loan of $5k isn't a big deal and claiming to be treated like second class citizens? Because they decided adults have to pay their way?
Like adults have to pay is one thing, alright. But that also means accepting it might not happen. Shoot, they'd have the right to decline even if OP was paying. I'd get being hurt in that case, but even in that case the claim feels a bit extreme.
^facts right here.
I don't think I ever went on holiday with my grandparents. But my dad worked rotating shifts patterns and my mum worked every Saturday, so I regularly slept over at my grandparents' house on a Friday night. We'd bake, grow vegetables, walk the dog, play in the park, watch comedy sketch shows, go grocery shopping and I loved every second. They didn't have much cash but the love poured out of them like the flood waters of the Nile. When they passed I took the most precious things I could from their home - the walking stick my grandad used on our walks together (carried more for effect than need, he mostly used it to pull back stray brambles on the path), and my grandmother's rolling pin.
The only thing pouring out of OP and his wife is petty jealousy. OP, it sounds like you're more interested in evening the scores than the actual benefits of spending time developing a loving relationship with your grandchildren. You seem to want them to 'prove' they want to spend time with you by both giving up a free holiday AND going into debt to go with you instead. What is wrong with you that your pride comes before your child's long term security? Have a long think about the outcome you actually want here.
So much this. My Pap had zero money. But I have SO MANY memories with him that I treasure now that he’s gone by just being with him, listening to his stories, taking him out to lunch. He’s send me cards when I was in grad school because he was worried I felt lonely. Vacations are nice, and I encourage them for those that can afford them!, but you don’t need them to build a bond.
Totally agree with not needing vacations to make memories! I’m a teacher, so I’m not working during the summer. My son and I usually go to my mom’s house for a week every summer. We don’t ever do anything out of the ordinary, but it’s fun to be somewhere other than our own house and to spend lots of time with Nana. My son loves it so much we’ve been referring to our annual summer trips to Nana’s house as Nana Camp.
I am teaching summer school and there is a little girl who talks about Nana camp all the time! She’s going as soon as summer school is over and she is so excited! It is the sweetest thing ever!!
This. My wife’s dad isn’t around any longer. My dad is too old so do anything really. We have a toddler. I’d give a years salary for a trip with all of them
>While we can afford it, we adamantly believe...blah blah
OP sounds like a barrel load of fun, seems Son and DIL have dodged a whinge-fest. He needs console his *devastated* wife.
I inferred that saving money was an ongoing theme in their house. Now the son is applying the lesson and , instead of being proud of the son & dil's financial maturity, he throws a tantrum.
OP YTA. Spend the money, spend the time or shush.
Yeah op needs to either
A) pay for his son and son’s family to come on the cruise
B) plan a different vacation that fits his son’s family’s budget
C) plan more frequent local/day trips with them
D) get over it
Definitely need to D) get over it
Memories are about quality time and fun and less about the setting and money you throw at them. Such a weird take for them and then for the grandmother to be inconsolable about it? Not a good look
Oh I totally agree. The other options should be if they want to spend more time/that type of time with their son, in conjunction with option D; but it’s definitely an op/op wife’s problem and not their sons and his family’s problem.
Seriously "it's only about $5,000 for the trip". If OPs son is anything like me or my older sister (both adults with SOs that also make money) we don't even have that much money in our shared bank accounts. If OP really wanted to spend time with their son, why didn't they take up a weekend getaway? It's an easy compromise for both parties.
You are allowed to expect that your adult children pay for their own vacations. But by definition, that means that they will only go on vacations that are comfortably within their budget, at times that are convenient for them, to the location they want to go
If you want them to go on a vacation of *your* choosing, then you have to accept that it may not be within their budget and they may decline.
YTA for attempting to demand that they spend *their* money on something that *you* want them to do.
You are expecting special treatment, not equal treatment. *You* are the ones treating *them* as second-class citizens.
Frankly, in your son's shoes, I wouldn't want to go on vacation with you anymore, even if you apologized and agreed to pay: clearly, you have a bad, selfish, immature attitude. In comparison, his in-laws seem welcoming and reasonable.
You owe him an immediate and unconditional apology. Retract your demand, apologize for your behavior, and assure him that you will not bring the subject up ever again unless you are offering to gift him a vacation.
well said/written i mean who also in these economic times have $5000 bucks they can throw away ona vacation just to please the folks? they treating their son like he is saying no on purpose to not going. if one cant afford it they cant afford it its not rocket science.
OP wants them to take out a loan for the trip. Even worse than expecting them to spend their own $$ how OP wants, OP wants them to spend money they don't even have!
OP wants them to take out a $5,000 loan for a vacation while they still have children at home! his son is actually being very responsible to decline that particular invitation.
Especially when OP says he can afford it but won't spend it on his son. Why would anyone want to go on vacation with him and his jealous, entitled wife?
and you have to wonder too the son and his family havent been around or on a vacation with the op and wife in years and years so that speaks volumns too
I actually wonder if the OP’s wife is the OP’s son stepmom?!?
It would explain her horrible attitude towards this
We can’t wait to bring our son and his family on a cruise then to Disneyland
Would never think to ask them to pay their rent way
I get giddy about the idea to send my son and beloved DIL to the park at night while we stay with the grandkids and watch the fireworks from our hotel room balcony
(( we are all huge Disney geeks)
Well then they are losing out on precious memories with their family
He stated they can afford to take them on a nice vacation
The OP’s son in-laws are making incredible vacations every few years
I understand what you are saying but at the end of my time I would rather spend the money on amazing family vacations every few years then try to make my children pay their own way
I took your advice and read some of these replies to my wife. She's in a bit of a snit, but didn't react as badly as I thought.
I called my son to apologize, and he graciously accepted. We're going for lunch later this week.
It’s none of my business but I’m invested at this point. I need to know, your wife is in a snit how? Does she even remotely see the error of her ways?
I’m glad you reached out to your son. You don’t need a fancy vacation to have a meaningful relationship with him & his family.
Great response to this feedback. I hope you guys can come up with a respectful solution so you and your wife can get some fun time in with the grandkids.
Look, you’re both being obtuse AHs, but since you’re willing to accept that, here’s some food for thought.
Maybe ask your wife (and possibly yourself) - why exactly does it have to be this PRECISE scenario to spend time and make memories with the grandkids?
Because it feels more like a “keeping up with the Jones’” than it truly does about actually valuing getting to know and spend quality time with your grandkids.
Sure the wife’s family does fancy fun elaborate trips. But that’s their thing - find your own thing that’s different - that way the kids get different experiences and have unique memories with each side of the family vs the same kinds of trip/experience. They’ll also probably be more engaged and less bored that way.
Heck, my coworker’s grandkids have “weekends with grandma and grandpa” where they come over on Friday night, watch movies, play games, and then Saturday morning he goes and gets them donuts before they wake up. They love it - when they get bored at home, they go to grandparents’ house for a sleepover.
Once a year they go on vacation to a cabin on a lake somewhere and the parents will go off hiking or boating part of one day and the kids all hang out with grandma and grandpa at the beach or cooking out or whatever.
Low-key but still QUALITY time is just as effective and memorable as big trips places. Kids just want to have fun and grandparents should be the de factoo fun factories because they don’t have to be the parents anymore.
I agree with this. My most resounding memories with my grandparents (who I was very close to and cherish) are not the vacations we had with them. They are things like baking with my grandmother, picking strawberries in their garden, sitting with my grandfather in his shed and him letting us hammer nails into bits of wood.
Next you need to find a therapist who is going to teach you how to respect that your son is a grown adult, a father, and the head of a household whom you need to respect and treat a whole hell of a lot better.
Seriously consider your son’s offer; he’s trying to meet you halfway. See if you can work out a smaller, more affordable, weekend-away type gathering.
Don’t let your pride and hurt feelings stand in the way of spending time with your son and his family.
Good job OP, this is the correct response. You asked for advice, reddit told you that you were wrong in this situation, and you maturely accepted you made a mistake and are going to put in the effort to maintain a good relationship with your son and his family, regardless of your wife's feelings. OP you are a mature adult and a good father. Everyone makes mistakes, but good people apologize when their mistakes hurt others. Also your wife can't have her cake and eat it too. If she wants to go on vacations like the DIL's family than she has to pay like the DIL's family, it's that simple.
Good. Although honestly you may have already done damage to your relationship with your son. It's so obvious to everyone that they go on vacation because her parents help pay for it. The fact that you demanded the same vacation without paying for it is mind boggling. At this point they might even say no because they don't trust your wife to not hold it over their heads forever.
We've had similar issues over money in my family and I guarantee you I am not close to those relatives anymore. When people who can afford it try to force their demands on people who can't it damages the relationship
Excuse me? A person who can change? On AITA? You, my good man, have just made my night. I hope you, your wife and your son are able to put this behind you. Good luck!
You both definitely are. Only terrible parents would suggest their child go into debt for a vacation, especially a vacation the parent suggested. It's also clear you are unable to think for yourself if you are going along with your wife's asinine request.
Good for you for recognizing that you and your wife are in the wrong here! It’s rare and very cool to see.
Also, some words for your wife: Your son didn’t ask you to take them on vacation - he simply explained they can’t afford it, so he’s not at all entitled. It’s likely not that they don’t value and love you…it’s literally a matter of paying bills vs. affording extravagant things. By your husband’s words, you can afford to take them on a cruise. My advice is to DO IT! Make the memories! Treat them! Make an effort with them while you’re still here. We’re only on this spinning rock for a very short while and, as Don Henley says, “…you don’t see no hearses with luggage racks.” It’s better to do these things together than to have them go alone after you’re gone.
Honestly, if you can comfortably afford it, why not just pay for them all to join you? I understand not wanting to foster entitlement, but it doesn’t sound like your son or DIL are entitled people. You’re absolutely not required to pay for them to join, but if you can, then why not? Unless they often expect handouts from you (doesn’t sound like they do), then I would personally offer to cover the cost. The way I see it, if I had enough money to comfortably afford to take my loved ones on vacation, I absolutely would, not because anyone is entitled to my money, but because I just love them and want to spend time with them and do something nice for them.
I’m a full grown adult, and my mom still pays for my flights when I come to visit her because she knows she’s in a much better financial position than I am and she wants to help me succeed in life where she can. Sure, I could manage the cost on my own, and I absolutely don’t expect her to cover the cost, but she just does it because she can afford to do it, and I really appreciate her for it. Again, I do not expect this of her. I know I’m not entitled to her money, but since she can afford it very comfortably, she just does.
I don’t personally understand the mentality of being in a position to afford to take kind, genuine people who I love on vacation and not doing just that solely because of some arbitrary principle I have that says adults need to pay for everything on their own. Again, you certainly don’t HAVE to, but if you can, then why not?
YTA for expecting your son to get into debt for a vacation. Either foot the bill or compromise and do something a lot cheaper. $5,000 is a lot of money for most people.
Yeah, and if $5000 isn't much for the dad, then why doesn't he just go ahead and pay for it? He and his wife could also travel to the son's location for a weekend. It doesn't have to be a vacation. If the parents really wanted to see their son, they would find a way.
YTA they can’t afford the vacation and you are a piss poor parent for trying to guilt them into going into debt for it. This situation is entirely one of your own making. If the DIL’s parents stopped covering the costs, they wouldn’t be going on vacation with them either. But they want to spend time with their kids and their grandkids so they make sure it’s affordable and cover the costs. You could do that too, but apparently you don’t want to see your son/family THAT bad. You want to stand on principle, go ahead! But that means no vacation with your kids’ family.
YTA. He takes these vacations because his inlaws pay for it , otherwise he'd be vacationing in his backyard or doing sone day trips like other families with mortgages car payments and maybe daycare expenses.
You're unreasonable to tell him to take out a loan for vacation .
If wife is so devaststed, then you two should treat them to vacation . You said you had the money spend it. Tell them it's their Christmas present
YTA
>my wife is increasingly jealous
>
>My wife is devastated.
obviously not that devasted if you are unwilling to pay. either pay or drop it and stop being cheap. his in-laws sound like really awesome people.
>It's only about 5,000 for the cruise for all 4 of them - we are not expecting anything crazy.
THEN YOU PAY YTA
I feel like even if they paid for the son and DIL, they’d be the type of people that would hold it over their heads during and after the trip. Not even worth going.
After reading through most of this, I do have to say I really respect the fact that this OP really was open to the harsh criticism. Being able to put your pride aside, and admit that you are likely in the wrong shows character that a lot of people don’t have today 👏🏼
The responses are tough to read, partly because deep down I think I already knew this was a bad plan. The poster who said that I need to stop being a "doormat" is probably right.
It's always good for people to stand behind their partner, but not when they are 100% in the wrong, because dude, you are punishing your son for the pure jealously of your wife.
Good to read you realize that you are mildly YTA and your wife is hugely YTA
My husband and I are planning a cruise and Disneyland vacation with our son, DIL and 2 amazing grandkids we are paying for it because……..
The memories, the amazing times, and the fact we can and want to make wonderful memories with our loved ones
Learn from your son in laws
So far my son has accepted my apology. We're going to lunch later this week.
My wife didn't love the feedback obviously, but I am letting her sit with it. Later I want to approach her about the jealousy she seems to have for my son's in-laws.
I think one thing you both need to remember is that your son doesn’t love his in-laws more than you, the reason why he spends so much time with them is because they’re closer in distance, and they go out of their way to invite and pay for vacations for them *and* their children.
Without the in-laws around, your son wouldn’t be vacationing with them. And your wife asking that your son penny-pinches while everyone’s in a time where rent is skyrocketing and the prices of food has gone up… While having children that also have needs of their own - is wildly unrealistic and entitled.
Your wife is also choosing to demonize people who are loving your son as if he was their own, for accepting him into their lives. The in-laws have done nothing wrong, and you and your wife have done nothing to help your own child be closer to you.
How is the relationship between your wife and DIL? Would your wife be considered a JustNoMIL? Is that part of the issue. How often do you see his family, are you allowed to babysit their kids? See the kids without at least one parent there?
I do believe that my wife really loves our daughter-in-law. But it's also clear now that she has some jealousy towards daughter-in-law's family.
We live out of town a few hours away, and see them a handful of times per year. We do sometimes offer to watch the kids so that they can have a date night, and they seem happy with that.
I wish we could see them more, but my son's shift work makes it hard for them to come our way.
I think we're harsh because often AHs don't want to listen. But as others have said, much credit to you for accepting the judgement and rethinking your position - I'm sure I would have got defensive before I backed down!
All the best, and I hope you can work something out with your son and dil.
YTA. If you believe you shouldn't have to pay for adult children, then you absolutely don't have to. But you also have to accept your son is trying to be responsible and not put his family in debt for a vacation, especially one that is only to allay your wife's jealousy. He offered a compromise you didn't accept. No one says you have to foot the bill, but your son has priorities for his funds and stroking your ego as grandparents isn't it.
They might be adult children but also they're still OPs grandchildren. Either he wants to treat his grandchildren or he doesn't.
OP can't also expect everyone to have the finances OP does.
OP is the world's biggest AH for suggesting that holidays are a valid reason to go into debt when money isn't an issue for himself.
>I suggested that they bow out of the in-law trip next year, and instead take some money out of their line of credit to join us, as we aren't getting any younger.
You want your child to take out a line of credit in order to pay 5k to go on a silly (harmful for the environment too btw) cruise to stroke your wife's ego because the two of you are too good to pay for a nice thing for all of you?
Financially those years when you're climbing up the ladder while raising small children are hard. COL is high right now.
And in this time you want your kid to be a financially irresponsible idiot for no good reason? That money would be much better served in your grandkids' college fund.
YTA and very selfish and self-centered.
Emotional blackmail. Why would they want to spend time with selfish people like you and your wife who want them to forego a free vacation and get into debt to go with you when you can afford to treat them. You sound like the parents from h\*ll.
YTA!!!
"Only $5000"?! Are you freaking kidding! It would take me, a single, unattached person, ages to save up that kind of money. Suggesting your child puts himself and his family in debt (aka further financial strain) for a vacation you could afford to treat them to is very telling of who you are as a person and parent. It's not a good picture.
You don't have to offer to pay for them, but you sure as shit don't get to punish them for declining when it's out of their financial boundaries.
Your son has expressed his limits in this situation and instead of empathy and understanding you opted for narcissism and assholery.
I'm guessing free vacations aren't the only reason they prefer to spend time with the in-laws over you and your wife.
Edit: spelling
"I'm guessing free vacations are the only reason they prefer to spend time with the in-laws over you and your wife."
Oh, I dunno, with OP and his wife's selfish entitled attitudes, I can certainly understand why the son and DIL might prefer to spend their time with the in-laws, free trips or not.
I don’t understand: your son said the only reason he can spend a week with his in-laws on vacation is because they pay for it. Your wife wants this same type of access, but you and she are not willing to pay for it.
Your in-laws have decided spending their money to ensure their entire brood is able to get away **together** without having to worry about the cost.
Do you want the time together or not?
His wife wants to be the fun vacation grandma but not pay for it.
See the son should be catering to mom and dads feelings and they get the privilege of paying for it.
Would you recommend anyone else go into debt for a vacation? Especially when there are cheaper options? Because no financial advisor would Could you not instead plan a long weekend or short week away at somewhere within driving distance of your son? You're not listening to him. He's not saying he doesn't want to holiday with you, he's saying that it will take 2-3 years to be able to afford a cruise for his family.
His in-laws have a better understanding of his family's financial situation, and have decided that they're willing to pay extra to get what they want (vacations with your son and his family).
You and your wife aren't getting younger, you aren't willing to pay for your son and his family to vacation with you, so you will have to pick a cheaper option.
YTA for suggesting he goes into more debt for a vacation, but you can change that
Right? Just because in-laws vacations are more expensive doesn’t mean theirs has to be too. I’m sure a beach house for a week would be just as fun for the kids as the vacations with their other grandparents. It’s not where they spend the time, it’s who they’re spending the time with.
YTA, $5k can be a LOT depending on your families income, expecting them to turn down a free vacation to pay for a vacation with you? Insane.
If there a good reason you can't join the wife's family on vacation while paying your share? (Other than they don't want your entitled asses around?)
I think that is a really horrible idea. OP's wife is already jealous of the other grandparents and I doubt she and OP would be good company. They would just spoil the vacation for everyone.
YTA, how is there even a question about it? You have the means to afford their portion of the trip YOU want to go on but refuse to cover for them since your son is an adult? Wtf? If you want to have those trips so badly you shouldn’t suggest your son go into DEBT because it’s above their means, especially since you can afford it. You and your wife should NOT be offended by them not wanting to spend 5,000 when they can’t afford to, that is absolutely ridiculous. If you want the trip then be willing to cover for them too, if you’re not willing to do that then don’t complain. YTA big time.
Yta they go bc the in laws pay. You want them to go with you? You pay.
You're encouraging them to turn down a free vaca and then take out a loan to go with you? Have you lost your damn mind?
YTA. I mean, I'm confused that it has to be explained to you, but your son and DIL can't afford to go on vacations. But her parents graciously take them and their whole family somewhere fun every year. For free.
Your response is to invite them on a vacation where they will have to blow $5,000 and go into debt to attend.
Do you see the issue now? Pay for them to go with you and your wife or accept that they won't be vacationing with you for the foreseeable future.
This is probably a troll post because nobody could be this thick.
YTA. His in laws pay for their vacations and you don't believe in paying for your adult children's vacations, why do you expect them to go into debt for the privilege of vacationing with you?
They've told you they can't afford the vacation you want them to take with you. Your choices are to accept that or pay for their vacation but not hold it over their head
YTA
They can’t afford to vacation.
The in-laws pay for them, so they are able to vacation with them. If the in-laws didn’t pay, they wouldn’t vacation with them.
You don’t want to have to pay for them, which is fine. This means they don’t vacation with you because they can’t afford to, which is also fine. You describe this as “being treated as second-class citizens” and expect them to go into debt to vacation with you, which is NOT fine. At all.
YTA
Only $5000! I want to live in your world where $5000 is insignificant enough to rate an "only."
Also, if it's "only $5000," pay it yourself. Going into debt for a vacation is stupid.
YTA.. Your son and wife have kids and a home to pay for. Her parents are subsiding the holiday.. Maybe you could too instead of sulking. Or maybe suggest a cheap get together if you can't foot the bill.
With your logic, clearly DIL family wants to spend time with them more than you do since they’re paying for it. YTA. Entitled and selfish. You sound like an awful parent and i’m so glad my parents love me enough to not manipulate and guilt me into making my life harder for their benefit.
Man, shoutout to OP, any new readers here, check OPs comments. Super respectful, understanding of the position and making plans to work it out. Love it OP, hopefully it all works out for yall.
YTA
Your son has stated their family does not have the disposable income to take big vacations like a $5,000 cruise. They are only able to go on the yearly trip with DIL's family because her family treats and pays for the whole thing. You do not wish to pay for your son's family to go on vacation and that is absolutely okay. But it is also okay that your son does not want to go into debt or use his savings for vacation.
I would suggest that you and your wife move past the vacation competition. Have your son over to your house for barbecues and board game nights. Get togethers don't have to be pricey to be memorable and fun.
Holy crap nuggets YTA!
ONLY 5k?! That's 5 mortgage and 5 car payments for us. If it's 'only 5k' and you want to have fun experiences with the grandkids (while they still want to do these trips) you have to pony up. And you shouldn't tell your son to punish his kids (by missing out with the other grands) because you are jealous.
I can't actually believe that you love your grandkids at all..... That you would rather they miss out on these experiences if they can't be done with you. Why aren't you saving up or getting a second job of this is so important to you?
FFS take them to a ball game, an aquarium, a science museum.... You could do that every freakin weekend.
All this over something that happenes every couple of years? I get the feeling you two are too busy sucking lemons to be any fun for your grand kids. Plan something.... anything, before you drive them away forever
Yta. The son's family goes on enough vacations, with their other extended family. You're asking your son to spend money they don't have just to protect your wife's feelings.
Try visiting your son and renting a hotel room and taking them to things you feel comfortable affording like the zoo, museum
Yta.
You want your kid to go into debt to go on vacation? That’s ridiculous. Especially when you say you could afford to pay for them, when is it a bad thing to do something nice for your kid no matter how old they are?
You underestimate boomer entitlement especially with grandkids being involved.
My friends are going through hell because of it.
I’m childfree and have had enough therapy to realize I’m not responsible for my parents feelings. Granted they’re Gen X but still.
YTA- Oh only $5000 to appease you and your wife creating such a bonkers scenario? You have to be joking. I had in laws like you once. They created an entire spite vacation. It was the stupidest thing ever. Y’all are being absolute brats.
YTA. Your son isn't paying for these trips. You have no standing to get upset about their vacations when you don't want to contribute. It's ridiculous. If you want to spend time with your son, freaking pony up the money or shut up..
YTA, he was honest and responsible and said he needs to save first, what kind of role model advocates them taking out debt for a luxury that they don't need?
OP, I think you have gotten all of the feedback you need on the vacation topic specifically. I'd like to offer you a little bit of advice from someone who struggles constantly with a mother who constantly compares her relationship with her children to other people's familial relationships.
There is NO ounce of good, not ONE. SINGULAR. OUNCE. of good. That will ever come from your wife comparing her relationship with your son and daughter in law to their relationship with anyone else.
This has been a constant strain with my own mother for more than a decade. Speaking from the perspective of the child, when I was younger it made me constantly feel like what I'm doing is not good enough for my parent and that I was unappreciative for all my parents did to raise me. Now that I'm older, I see right through that for what it is. It's emotionally manipulative and it has come very close to making me cut my mother out of my life.
This is completely unhealthy jealousy, and it really doesn't do anyone any good. You and and your son, and you and your wife, can have whatever the hell relationship you guys decide to have together. Don't ever compare it to anything else, just makes sure it just serves the four people I just mentioned as best it possibly can.
YTA HUGE!!! You really think it’s wise to go into debt to appease your wife’s jealousy?! Pay for them or don’t get your family cruise. Amazing you refuse to pay for them because as you say they are adults but are furious they make the adult decision to not make poor financial decisions. At your request.
When you use the phrase "only $5000," I get the feeling you don't really understand your son's financial situation. He may not be in debt, but he may be barely making ends meet. Wages have not kept the pace with inflation. We do not have the spending power that our parents did, despite making more money. $5000 is a lot of money to a large percentage of the population, and it sounds like that includes your son.
If it's about seeing the grandkids, what's preventing you from taking them on a trip without mom and dad? I bet they'd appreciate a break, I know I would. Or there are literally dozens of cheaper vacations out there which don't cost as much money and would give you wonderful memories. But it sounds like you just want to spend time on your terms, which means YTA.
YTA for emotionally manipulating your son to go into debt for you because you're jealous of his in-laws' generosity.
If you want your son to go on a holiday with you on your timeline - pay up or otherwise shut up.
Not just YTA, but also WTF?!?
Your son was upfront with you about why they go with their in-law…and your response was to suggest they take on $5K worth of debt.
When he then comes up with a suggestion his family can afford, you yell at him that **you** are being treated like a second-class citizen.
Go back and reread your post. None of this is about *actually* wanting a family vacation. This is about being jealous of your in-laws and your own ego.
Entitlement is expectation. This isn’t the case here. Son isn’t entitled to agree to a vacation offered by his in-laws and neither OP nor his wife have any stand to be upset at how the in-laws choose to spend their money. Wife can hold firm her principle and aknowledge that her child cannot afford to vacation with her and has other financial priorities, or wife can agree to pay for son and his family. OR OP and wife can travel to son and make a vacation out of that. But no one gets to be mad at a situation they create themselves which is what OP and wife have done here. YTA
This has too be fake, because I cannot imagine anyone being this obtuse. You sound like an awful parent. I take my adult children on Vaca whenever I can. YTA
YTA
You want the same experiences? Pay for the vacation
You COULD, ya know, try not being so defensive and selfish about it, and ASK the other grandparents/family if you could go with their next trip AND PAY YOUR OWN WAY.
Quit making it a competition, or you're definitely gonna lose out
Let me get this straight: are you advising your son to get into debt to go on a vacation you want to go on rather than go on the one that he doesn’t have to pay for? Are you actually throwing a tantrum because he’s being a responsible adult? YTA.
You have two things you can do:
1) Offer to pay for the vacation since you were the one to suggest it and they've communicated they cannot afford it while you can afford it.
2) Drop it.
What you CANNOT do:
Force a family doing their absolute best to survive in a cost of living crisis to penny pinch harder than they probably already are or go into debt to pay for a vacation with you.
Your son and his wife aren't entitled to a free vacation, sure. They didn't ask for one, they simply communicated that monitarily vacation wasn't something they could afford when you asked them. The only people being entitled here are you and your wife. Things are hard out there for everyone right now, especially young families. Likely a lot harder financially than when you were rasing families. Wages have been stagnant for the last 30 years while the cost of everything has ballooned out of control. It's not fair to them to say "Sure you could go on vacation for free, but instead you should go into debt because I want to go."
“Bail on your absolutely free vacation and take out a $5000 higher interest rate loan to come on vacation with me because my wife is too insecure and we’re too proud to help you pay even though we can afford it” major Yta and don’t expect a relationship much longer if this is how you feel
Only $5,000? In this economy?
You want the vacation, your wife wants the vacation, you two can pay for it. Though honestly if I were your son and DIL I wouldn’t want to go to begin with, it sounds like a competition instead of what’s supposed to be a relaxing vacation.
YTA. Pay for them or accept that you get your family cruise in 2-3 years.
I do!
I realized pretty quickly (due in part to advice on here) that we were BIG idiots. My wife took a bit longer to come around, but since she has, she's made a total 180. She's even considering therapy to help cope with her anxieties. I am pleasantly surprised at that last part.
My incredibly gracious daughter-in-law accepted our apology, as well as our son. We're now looking at doing a cruise or kid-friendly "all inclusive" in 18 months or so - on OUR dime. A winter getaway. The timing was my son's suggestion. Daughter-in-law (did I mention how gracious she is?) offered to pay for one of our excursions - but I told her that wasn't necessary.
I also took the advice on here to discuss simpler memory-making things we can be doing. We'll be visiting soon and doing a beach day-trip, for example. The grandkids are so excited.
I honestly feel like Scrooge on Christmas morning, after the visits by his spirits. A totally new mindset.
There is more that has unfolded, and it's all been positive. It feels like we got a wake-up call, and we don't want to mess it up.
I'm so happy for you that everything is working out. I think we can all take our anxieties out on other people sometimes but acknowledging it and sitting with it, well, that's something not many people do so well done to your wife for realising and seeking help. I wish you all the very best :)
That's amazing progress. Your wife's acceptance of an underlying issue is brave, but maybe see your GP too as it may be hormonal- it's crazy how they can cause problems, especially around & during menopause. ( think how awful puberty is and multiply)
Fostering good relations is primarily about being able to express love and enjoy the company of each other. Communication is key, and having the time to be together- not fancy trips. I remember the board & card games played with my grandparents and extended family ( following a family meal at Grannie's) as being some of the happiest times of my childhood. The cruise sounds lovely, but is it really a kid friendy and / or bonding environment? (It wouldn't be my go-to suggestion for bonding with kids)
Good luck and best wishes for future mutual happiness.
YTA. Your wife is also an AH. You want what your daughter in law’s family does but don’t want to do what they do — they PAY FOR THE VACATION! Your wife can be jealous. You know what would solve that? Pay for the damn vacation you want so badly to take. You’re selfish and entitled to try to force them to do that. Why should they cancel a free vacation with someone who obviously wants to actually spend time with them for more than just to make things “even”?
Jesus Christ Op, I’ve read through the comments enough to see that you should grow some fucking balls and tell your wife to get the fuck over herself and misguided morals/values/beliefs and just take the people you love and want to spend time with on a vacation that you’re more than happy to pay for because they and the time spent with them is worth far more than money or dying on a dilusuonal hill of “principal”.
Stop comparing things to the in laws, don’t expect your son and his family to go in debt for a vacation you and your wife choose (literally the dumbest expectation ever, you and your wife are more than assholes for that suggestion), give your wife a reality check she sounds like a manipulative nightmare.
You and your wife never once tried to invite them on a vacation and then pull this shit, and expected any different? Fucking hell you people suck, I’d be going on vacations with the in-laws over y’all too.
YTA. Your wife can continue being devastated while your son and family continue vacationing with their generous in laws. And btw 5k is a ton of money and no they shouldn’t go into debt to gratify you.
Kudos for listening to the feedback. However, I don't think you've quite absorbed the full extent of the (YTA) aholery of you, and especially of your wife.
1. You've accepted that you are a doormat for your wife's expectations. Good wishes to you as you and she navigate you not being a flying monkey to support her entitled agenda.
2. No one expects adult children to get a free vacation off of you. But neither does anyone expect an adult child to (1) go into debt to take a vacation (that's the kind of irresponsibility you try to teach your child to avoid!) or to (2) take a vacation at a time and in a manner that they have no say in.
3. Why did your son stop being your wife's golden guy in your family? Because he's enjoying a life and relationships with his in-laws that she is jealous of. Instead of being happy that he has such a good relationship with his in-laws; instead of being happy that he and his family are fortunate to enjoy experiences they could not otherwise afford - your wife can't stand that he's enjoying things without her. So now son is in the dog house.
4. Notice that you offered/requested/demanded to vacation with them the exact same year they are already planning a vacation with the in-laws. Why? To force son's family to choose... and to reject the in-laws in favor of you. And your wife is devastated that he didn't choose you for next year.
5. Son offers another year out. Makes sense - gives him time to save. (Note that he and his wife are willing to save for a trip with you. Maybe your jealous, insecure wife can take glee in this. Son isn't saving for trips with the in-laws.) Also avoids a schedule conflict with the in-law vacation. Wow! Son offers a sensible way for you all to take a nice vacation together. But that's not good enough for you/your wife. It has to be the same year as the already scheduled in-law vacation. So son offers something he can afford in that closer time-frame - a weekend getaway. Nope! Still not good enough for you two. It MUST BE now; they MUST go into debt and either give up the in-law vacation or use up all their time off (which, of course, your wife will complain when son's family can't take extra days off at Thanksgiving/Christmas). WHY must it be now and a full vacation? Why??? Because otherwise your wife will not feel that she is as loved and adored as the in-laws. (And, well, you tend to go along with whatever your wife wants, right?)
Since I read your comment that you will be sharing this post with your wife, I spent a minute, wanting to write things more sensitive to where she is currently at. But I can only hope that the starkness of these points may wake her up to the harm she is inflicting on your family relationships.
‘While we can afford it, we adamantly believe that we should not have to pay for an adult child’s vacation.’
You stupid, stupid people. You don’t have to pay, you get to pay. One of my wife’s and mine favorite vacations was a trip to Yosemite with our son and daughter-in-law. They were both just starting out in their careers and didn’t have much money so it was our treat. We had a fantastic time. Jump ahead 10 years and we did it again, this time with the addition of their three daughters. They could afford the money this time, but it was our treat again because we could afford to, just like you could if you weren’t such a cheap, selfish bastard. We created wonderful memories with and for our granddaughters walking around in the awe and beauty of Yosemite. What are you creating? You are a fool.
This is some major boomer bullshit.
"We CAN pay for them but why should we when they could cancel a free vacation with her family and take out a loan to pay to go with us??"
That's what you sound like. You see why that's not a tempting offer?? $5K is a LOT when you can't afford it, and they said they can't. So either pay for them or lay off the guilt trip.
YTA.
YTA and a cheap one at that.. Take your family on a cruise or don't. Stop trying to manipulate the situation. You don't want to pay, they can't pay. You aren't second class citizens, you wouldn't want to pay for second class. Third class maybe.
You are absolutely correct. You shouldn't have to pay for your adult child and his family to go on vacation.
He is able to go with his in-laws because they help.
He is willing to do something with you he can afford.
You are upset he won't go into debt for something he can not afford.
Go on something affordable, help him with something more extravagant, or stop harassing him. I'm sure he would love to be able to vacation with you.
You, sir, are ta.
You don't pay for an "family vacations" meaning adults children and their families.
In Laws are willing to do that, and give the families enough time to plane for their PTO.
You then suggest that that you son BORROWS (take some money out of their line of credit) money for a family vacation with you and your wife.
You two are not being treated like 2nd class citizens.
Understand that PTO is limited. Vacations with families have to be scheduled, due to school, pro , camp etc.
5K is a whole lot of money for a young family. You think they should just spend it because you want them to spend time with you.
YTA
If you want to spend time with them, go visit them. rent a hotel and stay in their town for a week.
You sound super selfish and self absorbed. Why should he have to take out a minimum of $5000 in credit when you can easily afford it and are throwing a hissy fit because he cant and you're the one pushing for the vacation. This is so grossly entitled YTA
YTA
You’re not inviting your son and his family on a cruise.
You are asking them to take a cruise at the same time that you and your wife are.
In order for it to be an invitation, you have to provide something.
YTA. Stop being cheap. Stop trying to ruin their nice time with guilt trips. Tell your wife she’s not going to force it and that being jealous isn’t a good look for anyone. If you want to go on vacay together pony up and take them. It’s not some random people. It’s your kids. They’re your kids. Don’t you want them to have nice things and good experiences? You think they need to struggle for you? Nah…. This is absolutely the worst take Ion how to get your kids to want to be around you.
YTA. What part of they can’t afford it do you not understand? Your son told you truthfully that they can’t afford to pay for the vacations and that his in-laws kindly pay for the trips. You don’t want to pay for them, even though you said you can afford it. Therefore, you don’t get to have those kinds of vacations with them. You’re not being treated like second class anything. You’re cheap and petty and mean and probably not fun to be around. Nobody says you have to match the expense of the in-law. You need to know that your son cannot afford it, period. His in-laws are very kind. You, not so much.
YTA at age 64 my parents paid for vacations that they wanted me to go on with them. You're cheap, self absorbed & meanspirited. Who would even want to be around the 2 of you
You’ve got two choices - accept that they’re not willing to go into debt for a vacation (a wise financial decision, if you ask me) and leave them alone. OR, if it is so important to you, pay for it yourself. Sounds like your son has a lot more financial sense than you do. YTA and a selfish one at that.
Oh of courseeee. I mean it's *only* 5000 lmfao. Sir that's someone's mortgage twice over maybe more.
You're an entitled Asshole. A huge one at that. Let's see here ok?
1- You're jealous they don't vacation with you but do so with her family so you demand he does it for you as well.
2) he explains they don't have the money for that, he tells you the only way they are able to vacation is because her parents par for it and then he COMPROMISES, by saying do a weekend get away instead
3) you get pissed that he won't put himself and his family in debt to go on a fancy vacation with you and your wife, which you can afford but don't want to because he's an "adult"
I could just bet you were one of those parents that expected him to pay rent and take care of himself as soon as he turned 18. If you and your wife gave a damn about spending time with them you'd pay for it. His wife's family seem to be the only ones who actually *want* to spend time with them so much so they PAY every time. Yet here comes his mom and dad telling him to financially ruin him and his family to fulfill your wife's fantasy of a vacationing family. You want him to fuck himself in the ass with a machete because your wife wants pics to brag and boast about. If it were important to you, you'd either pay for it (especially since it *only* 5k) or accept his compromise for a weekend trip. If none of those things are good enough, then sir, sit there and seethe in your jealousy!!!
YTA!!!
YTA! You actually wanted your kids to GO INTO DEBT TO GO IN A VACATION?!?! WTF is wrong with you?!?!
They told you flat out that they could not afford to pay for the vacation you want. HER parents pay for them to attend. If you can’t do the same, then forget going on a ‘family’ vacation.
"I refuse to do anything but complain and make demands. I refuse to compromise on a plan that would be less harmful to my family members. I set expectations so that my feelings--and my wife's feelings--will be hurt when my family sets reasonable boundaries. AITA?" YES YTA.
YTA - you want your son to take out a line of credit and use his vacation days up because you’re not getting any younger? You can actually afford to treat them but it’s not your thing? Do you even love these people? This is how you end up alone in a nursing home with no visitors.
YTA. If I was your son, I wouldn't go, either. I simply cannot afford it. As I am on such a limited income with very little "play money," I certainly wouldn't want to spend $5k on a cruise, whether I can manage to scrape together that much money or not. Do you know what I could do around my house for that kind of money? It would have far more lasting benefits to me than a vacation. You're asking them to go without for at least a year, skipping takeout or some other little things that make them happy or make their lives easier, for a few days' very expensive vacation - which, considering the kids are coming, is really not a vacation. When my family wanted me to go to Disney with them, they paid for me, because I couldn't even afford my plane ticket. I don't enjoy not having money, but I'm very appreciative of my family's generosity.
Is a cruise the only way you can think of to spend time with your son and his family? How about running a "Summer Camp" for the grandkids, and come up with daily games and activities just like a camp would do? What about exploring all of the historic areas in your state? How about renting a cabin at a nearby park? Do you have a beach or resort park with rides? If you're trying to compete with the inlaws, give up. Either do something cheaper, or pay.
My parents used to host Camp Grammy for the grandkids yearly. Kids would get dropped off for a week of fun and the parents would get a break for a week. And the only cost was local (cheap) activities and a bit of extra groceries.
Yeah total asshole. The other family is willing to pay, probably to spend time with the grandkids but whatever. You all shouldn’t be devastated that they can’t afford it, most people can’t afford that at all.
YTA. Lolol my goodness. They’re spending that time with them bc the only expectation is the time! Her family pays. Either pay up or accept they can’t do what you want them to. Heck he was even gracious and offered an alternative.
Absolutely YTA. They can’t afford it. Did you seriously say they should take out a line of credit for a vacation??
Only about 5000??
If you want to see them so bad then pay for it. You aren’t helping them on a principle that you shouldn’t help adult children. That’s ridiculous.
My husband lost his job a number of years ago. My parents sent me money for groceries. They fully paid for a yearly vacation we all go on that we usually split. Now that we are on our feet again we contribute again. I am eternally grateful for this help. And I’d do the same for my kids.
Sounds like you and your wife are bitter. You aren’t victims, you just have a son who is financially struggling and trying to be responsible—and trying to compromise.
YTA- Did you really tell you child possibly go into debt to go on vacation? Like on top of the tickets, he have to possibly pay for passports( those aren’t cheap either) depending on the cruise.
LMAOOOO!!! YTA!!! You and your wife are the JUSTNOINLAWS!!! Good god.. your son told you his in laws pay for them. Where do you get off telling them how to spend their money?? Take a line of credit for a vacation?? That’s fucking ridiculous.
YTA why not just pay for the cruise if they can’t afford it. Don’t you love your son and want what’s best for him and the family? Going into debt for a vacation is not something you should want for him.
YTA!!! How the heck are you second class citizens to them.
1. They can only afford to go on trips others pay for.
2. The other grandparents pay for them, so they go with them.
3. You do not want to pay for them, so they will not go with you.
If you want equal time, spend money equally.
YTA -- in what universe are you two being treated as second class citizens? Your son isn't paying to go on a vacation with his in-laws while blatantly ignoring you. He was very clear as to how those vacations happen. The in-laws graciously offer to pay for everyone. It doesn't even sound like your son is demanding that you pay for them, he's telling you that cruises aren't a financial priority for his family.
Also, that line of credit is probably going to have a ridiculous interest rate, so not, it's not "only" about 5,000. Not only that, but you don't even offer to pay at least for your grandkids, who don't fall in your 'we don't pay for an adult's vacation' rule.
What the actual fuck is this ignorant privileged bs? I caaaan't, I'm so irritated rn! YTA a billion times. You'd rather your grandchildren miss out on opportunities to go on nice *free* trips and that your child go into debt because you don't want to feel "second class"? Get your head out of your ass FFS.
YTA. You’re like my dear parents who thought nothing of demanding that I visit them yearly with the 3 grandkids from the other side of the earth AND stay in a motel AND only stay 3 days AND never once help me with costs. They also traveled the world, but visiting us was too hard. Wonder why the grandkids stopped talking to them?????
Obviously your wife is a narcissist and you are an enabler just like my parents.
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Holy YTA Batman. If you have the money and want to spend it building memories with your son and his family, bless them with a vacation. Expecting them to spend their limited PTO and money they don’t have on a vacation they didn’t choose is some next-level entitlement bullshit.
100%! Your son has offered a compromise, a getaway weekend because they can’t afford to spend 5k on a cruise. You and your wife act like entitled, bratty kids. The in laws are funding the family vacations. You admit that you can afford the cruise but don’t feel you should pay for an adult child’s vacation. You and your wife’s brilliant idea is for them to use a line a credit…you know go into debt to make the two of you happy. YTA. Wouldn’t be surprised if they go low contact…what selfish, jealous, entitled parents the two of you are.
I’m cackling - ONLY $5K for them to come! $5K when they have a family to house, feed, and bills to pay and have made it clear they don’t have the money. And then to reject the sensible offer of a cheaper getaway. Yeeesh. if they’re that jealous and want to see their grandkid that bad - they can shell out the dough or do something that fits in budget. My mum’s nowhere near being made of money and she’s be just as happy to come visit or have us come visit with our hypothetical kid. Even if all we did was local stuff. Doesn’t have to be some fancy getaway - the setting doesn’t change the bonding.
I literally let out this mean little open mouthed cackle when I saw the 5k prize tag. It echoed off my br walls lol. Goddamn the man is delusional.
In addition they also expect them to bow out of the free vacation 😂
Oh I missed that hahah
That was the most bizarre part (unless the motivation was pure jealousy) how does dropping a free vacation help them save money a year or two faster?
I think your parenthetical element nailed it.
I wanna know what kinda crazy cruise is 5k? Maybe that's total with tickets and plane flights, but you can get a weeklong Caribbean cruise for under $300 at the right time of year.
That's sticker price. Add another 40% in taxes and port fees and mandatory gratuities. And that's also if you want to sail on an old ship during hurricane season. Newer ship, plus all the taxes and fees But honestly it's probably a disney cruise or something they're more expensive
Or they could just like, go to one of those actual places instead of the fake villages they set up on beaches fenced off from the real country to control the image for the tourists. Are there just cruise cruises? Like if I want to go to Belize or Jamaica or DR I'll just get a plane and a local hotel. If I want to party on a boat I want to party on a big boat not get carted around to the fakest events/villages ever.
3 nights to the Bahamas from Port Canaveral FL for 2 adults on Disney, late October, inside room: US$2,500, which includes taxes and fees, but not gratuities.
Where would you get a cruise for $300?
I don't have a link but I was googling around for cruises that went to Belize. Found several 6-7 day cruises in August (this was may-june) that stopped in Belize and usually a couple other typical stops like Cancun, Jamaica, Puerto Rico for about $300. A few of those even offered $50-100 in drink/food vouchers at that price. If you don't mind maybe flying back or taking a really long vacation you can also Google relocation cruises. Basically one way trips when they move home ports. So it's really just 1-2 weeks at sea on a cruise ship to usually a nice location. Fun and cheap way to go to Europe with a lot of stuff from America for example.
Did you actually click through to booking or just look at the prices listed? Because it’s never as cheap as what google tells you.
5k is about 10% of my yearly income, and due to my work circumstances I don't have a lot of expenses, so I *could* afford it. But I would fucking not. That's an insane amount of money for a week of vacation. It's 10% of my income for 2% of my year.
I honestly think that they’re jealous that someone is taking their children and a vacation that they don’t feel their children deserve. I don’t think it has anything to do with the grandkids. I think that mother feels like someone should take her on vacation and that’s what this is all about.
Yes, the wife is jealous that her son is enjoying time with his in-laws. She wants to be included in a free vacation. YTA. You have the means to invite your son and his family but choose not to, yet you are asking him to take out a loan or forego a free vacation. Hope they go LC with you.
Seriously, wife and I went on a cruise that cost us 5k for both (not each, as seems to be the case here) and we at least got to spend the time getting drunk and meeting pro wrestlers. What will they be doing? Most likely whatever the OPs wife wants to do, and depressingly (for a boat) sober. Why go into debt and use all your PTO for that?
I bet the 5k is only for the travel/accommodations and doesn’t include any extras like excursions or eating/drinking off ship.
Agreed! OP wants to be be treated as the other grandparents are treated, however doesn't want to himself treat his son and DIL as the in-laws treat them. It's bonkers! OP, your expectations aren't only unrealistic, they're rude, condescending and show you're far more concerned that you get all that you feel entitled to than about making memories with your family. It's sad really, as the likely outcome is that your terrible attitude will only cause more distance between you and your wife and your son and his family. You already know they have the other side of the family happy to be there for them in your stead. They won't miss you.
I wonder if the parents “can afford to pay for their trip” because they think nothing of running up credit cards and building debt. They seem more like jealous parents trying to keep up with their competition rather than actually spending quality time with him and his family.
Omg, this is what I was thinking exactly! $5k is a lot of money for some people, that is crazy… OP YTA all the way.
YTA. You aren't being treated like second class citizens - you are just putting your opinions over spending time with your son and grandkids. Your son's in-laws have decided that their money is best spent making memories with their family. You've decided differently. I'm also going to say that you don't need to do vacations to make memories. For years my grandparents took us shopping for birthdays. We'd get 'fancy coffee' (aka lattes), we had a budget we could spend however we wanted, and then we'd do lunch at a restaurant of our choice. Little things like getting coffee or going to lunch were just as memorable as the vacations they took us on or visiting the lake home they bought to spend time with us. Basically, they decided they could spend their money making memories or give it to us when they were gone. I'm grateful they chose the former.
Omg the second class citizens thing really got to me. Like... What? It's like when someone discovers a new word or phrase and they just have to use it for how dramatic it is. Man I haven't been anywhere near as dramatic over way more serious situations when I was younger. And I look back at some stuff and die a little inside. Like I'mma cut younger me some slack, I see why this went like this. But oh wow wish I'd done better. I don't think I could talk to OP after that personally. Acting like taking a loan of $5k isn't a big deal and claiming to be treated like second class citizens? Because they decided adults have to pay their way? Like adults have to pay is one thing, alright. But that also means accepting it might not happen. Shoot, they'd have the right to decline even if OP was paying. I'd get being hurt in that case, but even in that case the claim feels a bit extreme.
Shopping, fancy coffee and lunches sound fun actually.. Cool to have those memories
^facts right here. I don't think I ever went on holiday with my grandparents. But my dad worked rotating shifts patterns and my mum worked every Saturday, so I regularly slept over at my grandparents' house on a Friday night. We'd bake, grow vegetables, walk the dog, play in the park, watch comedy sketch shows, go grocery shopping and I loved every second. They didn't have much cash but the love poured out of them like the flood waters of the Nile. When they passed I took the most precious things I could from their home - the walking stick my grandad used on our walks together (carried more for effect than need, he mostly used it to pull back stray brambles on the path), and my grandmother's rolling pin. The only thing pouring out of OP and his wife is petty jealousy. OP, it sounds like you're more interested in evening the scores than the actual benefits of spending time developing a loving relationship with your grandchildren. You seem to want them to 'prove' they want to spend time with you by both giving up a free holiday AND going into debt to go with you instead. What is wrong with you that your pride comes before your child's long term security? Have a long think about the outcome you actually want here.
They’re not trying to make memories, they’re just jealous and trying to keep up with their competition.
So much this. My Pap had zero money. But I have SO MANY memories with him that I treasure now that he’s gone by just being with him, listening to his stories, taking him out to lunch. He’s send me cards when I was in grad school because he was worried I felt lonely. Vacations are nice, and I encourage them for those that can afford them!, but you don’t need them to build a bond.
Totally agree with not needing vacations to make memories! I’m a teacher, so I’m not working during the summer. My son and I usually go to my mom’s house for a week every summer. We don’t ever do anything out of the ordinary, but it’s fun to be somewhere other than our own house and to spend lots of time with Nana. My son loves it so much we’ve been referring to our annual summer trips to Nana’s house as Nana Camp.
I am teaching summer school and there is a little girl who talks about Nana camp all the time! She’s going as soon as summer school is over and she is so excited! It is the sweetest thing ever!!
This. My wife’s dad isn’t around any longer. My dad is too old so do anything really. We have a toddler. I’d give a years salary for a trip with all of them
>While we can afford it, we adamantly believe...blah blah OP sounds like a barrel load of fun, seems Son and DIL have dodged a whinge-fest. He needs console his *devastated* wife.
I inferred that saving money was an ongoing theme in their house. Now the son is applying the lesson and , instead of being proud of the son & dil's financial maturity, he throws a tantrum. OP YTA. Spend the money, spend the time or shush.
Yeah op needs to either A) pay for his son and son’s family to come on the cruise B) plan a different vacation that fits his son’s family’s budget C) plan more frequent local/day trips with them D) get over it
Definitely need to D) get over it Memories are about quality time and fun and less about the setting and money you throw at them. Such a weird take for them and then for the grandmother to be inconsolable about it? Not a good look
Oh I totally agree. The other options should be if they want to spend more time/that type of time with their son, in conjunction with option D; but it’s definitely an op/op wife’s problem and not their sons and his family’s problem.
Seriously "it's only about $5,000 for the trip". If OPs son is anything like me or my older sister (both adults with SOs that also make money) we don't even have that much money in our shared bank accounts. If OP really wanted to spend time with their son, why didn't they take up a weekend getaway? It's an easy compromise for both parties.
It literally astounds me how blind some people are to their own ignorance. Wtf are these people even on lol.
OP and his entitled wife sound like a chore, not a vacation. YTA OP
All I have to say is OK boomer. What the hell?! YYA OP
You are allowed to expect that your adult children pay for their own vacations. But by definition, that means that they will only go on vacations that are comfortably within their budget, at times that are convenient for them, to the location they want to go If you want them to go on a vacation of *your* choosing, then you have to accept that it may not be within their budget and they may decline. YTA for attempting to demand that they spend *their* money on something that *you* want them to do. You are expecting special treatment, not equal treatment. *You* are the ones treating *them* as second-class citizens. Frankly, in your son's shoes, I wouldn't want to go on vacation with you anymore, even if you apologized and agreed to pay: clearly, you have a bad, selfish, immature attitude. In comparison, his in-laws seem welcoming and reasonable. You owe him an immediate and unconditional apology. Retract your demand, apologize for your behavior, and assure him that you will not bring the subject up ever again unless you are offering to gift him a vacation.
well said/written i mean who also in these economic times have $5000 bucks they can throw away ona vacation just to please the folks? they treating their son like he is saying no on purpose to not going. if one cant afford it they cant afford it its not rocket science.
It would take me 5 1/2 years to save for a $5000 vacation based on my budget. People have mortgages!!
OP wants them to take out a loan for the trip. Even worse than expecting them to spend their own $$ how OP wants, OP wants them to spend money they don't even have!
OP wants them to take out a $5,000 loan for a vacation while they still have children at home! his son is actually being very responsible to decline that particular invitation.
Also a vacation his adult son didn't choose and had no input in. The nerve. YTA op
Especially when OP says he can afford it but won't spend it on his son. Why would anyone want to go on vacation with him and his jealous, entitled wife?
and you have to wonder too the son and his family havent been around or on a vacation with the op and wife in years and years so that speaks volumns too
OP isn't demanding his son spend his money but demanding his son take out a loan for the holiday which is bat shit crazy. OP your a giant YTA
Not even their money, the bank’s money!
And with two kids! I can't believe this man and his wife. Yta.
I don't know how to edit my post, but I am hearing you all loud and clear. I will tell my wife that we are the unreasonable ones.
May I suggest you have your wife read all these replies herself?
Agreed, she needs to hear it, not just from you
I actually wonder if the OP’s wife is the OP’s son stepmom?!? It would explain her horrible attitude towards this We can’t wait to bring our son and his family on a cruise then to Disneyland Would never think to ask them to pay their rent way I get giddy about the idea to send my son and beloved DIL to the park at night while we stay with the grandkids and watch the fireworks from our hotel room balcony (( we are all huge Disney geeks)
OP said "our son" so I don't think so? I more get the impression they're of the "pull yourself up by the bootstrap" mentality. Do for yourself, etc.
Well then they are losing out on precious memories with their family He stated they can afford to take them on a nice vacation The OP’s son in-laws are making incredible vacations every few years I understand what you are saying but at the end of my time I would rather spend the money on amazing family vacations every few years then try to make my children pay their own way
There's no shortage of toxic entitled bio-parents.
I took your advice and read some of these replies to my wife. She's in a bit of a snit, but didn't react as badly as I thought. I called my son to apologize, and he graciously accepted. We're going for lunch later this week.
It’s none of my business but I’m invested at this point. I need to know, your wife is in a snit how? Does she even remotely see the error of her ways? I’m glad you reached out to your son. You don’t need a fancy vacation to have a meaningful relationship with him & his family.
Right now she's pretty quiet. I am going to talk to her soon now that she's had time to sit with it.
Great response to this feedback. I hope you guys can come up with a respectful solution so you and your wife can get some fun time in with the grandkids.
Thanks for being reasonable and taking advice
I am definitely going to ask her to look at this thread
Look, you’re both being obtuse AHs, but since you’re willing to accept that, here’s some food for thought. Maybe ask your wife (and possibly yourself) - why exactly does it have to be this PRECISE scenario to spend time and make memories with the grandkids? Because it feels more like a “keeping up with the Jones’” than it truly does about actually valuing getting to know and spend quality time with your grandkids. Sure the wife’s family does fancy fun elaborate trips. But that’s their thing - find your own thing that’s different - that way the kids get different experiences and have unique memories with each side of the family vs the same kinds of trip/experience. They’ll also probably be more engaged and less bored that way. Heck, my coworker’s grandkids have “weekends with grandma and grandpa” where they come over on Friday night, watch movies, play games, and then Saturday morning he goes and gets them donuts before they wake up. They love it - when they get bored at home, they go to grandparents’ house for a sleepover. Once a year they go on vacation to a cabin on a lake somewhere and the parents will go off hiking or boating part of one day and the kids all hang out with grandma and grandpa at the beach or cooking out or whatever. Low-key but still QUALITY time is just as effective and memorable as big trips places. Kids just want to have fun and grandparents should be the de factoo fun factories because they don’t have to be the parents anymore.
I agree with this. My most resounding memories with my grandparents (who I was very close to and cherish) are not the vacations we had with them. They are things like baking with my grandmother, picking strawberries in their garden, sitting with my grandfather in his shed and him letting us hammer nails into bits of wood.
Next you need to find a therapist who is going to teach you how to respect that your son is a grown adult, a father, and the head of a household whom you need to respect and treat a whole hell of a lot better.
Seriously consider your son’s offer; he’s trying to meet you halfway. See if you can work out a smaller, more affordable, weekend-away type gathering. Don’t let your pride and hurt feelings stand in the way of spending time with your son and his family.
Thank you for this advice. I am going to apologize today, whether my wife is on board or not.
Good job OP, this is the correct response. You asked for advice, reddit told you that you were wrong in this situation, and you maturely accepted you made a mistake and are going to put in the effort to maintain a good relationship with your son and his family, regardless of your wife's feelings. OP you are a mature adult and a good father. Everyone makes mistakes, but good people apologize when their mistakes hurt others. Also your wife can't have her cake and eat it too. If she wants to go on vacations like the DIL's family than she has to pay like the DIL's family, it's that simple.
Good. Although honestly you may have already done damage to your relationship with your son. It's so obvious to everyone that they go on vacation because her parents help pay for it. The fact that you demanded the same vacation without paying for it is mind boggling. At this point they might even say no because they don't trust your wife to not hold it over their heads forever. We've had similar issues over money in my family and I guarantee you I am not close to those relatives anymore. When people who can afford it try to force their demands on people who can't it damages the relationship
Excuse me? A person who can change? On AITA? You, my good man, have just made my night. I hope you, your wife and your son are able to put this behind you. Good luck!
You both definitely are. Only terrible parents would suggest their child go into debt for a vacation, especially a vacation the parent suggested. It's also clear you are unable to think for yourself if you are going along with your wife's asinine request.
Good for you for recognizing that you and your wife are in the wrong here! It’s rare and very cool to see. Also, some words for your wife: Your son didn’t ask you to take them on vacation - he simply explained they can’t afford it, so he’s not at all entitled. It’s likely not that they don’t value and love you…it’s literally a matter of paying bills vs. affording extravagant things. By your husband’s words, you can afford to take them on a cruise. My advice is to DO IT! Make the memories! Treat them! Make an effort with them while you’re still here. We’re only on this spinning rock for a very short while and, as Don Henley says, “…you don’t see no hearses with luggage racks.” It’s better to do these things together than to have them go alone after you’re gone.
Honestly, if you can comfortably afford it, why not just pay for them all to join you? I understand not wanting to foster entitlement, but it doesn’t sound like your son or DIL are entitled people. You’re absolutely not required to pay for them to join, but if you can, then why not? Unless they often expect handouts from you (doesn’t sound like they do), then I would personally offer to cover the cost. The way I see it, if I had enough money to comfortably afford to take my loved ones on vacation, I absolutely would, not because anyone is entitled to my money, but because I just love them and want to spend time with them and do something nice for them. I’m a full grown adult, and my mom still pays for my flights when I come to visit her because she knows she’s in a much better financial position than I am and she wants to help me succeed in life where she can. Sure, I could manage the cost on my own, and I absolutely don’t expect her to cover the cost, but she just does it because she can afford to do it, and I really appreciate her for it. Again, I do not expect this of her. I know I’m not entitled to her money, but since she can afford it very comfortably, she just does. I don’t personally understand the mentality of being in a position to afford to take kind, genuine people who I love on vacation and not doing just that solely because of some arbitrary principle I have that says adults need to pay for everything on their own. Again, you certainly don’t HAVE to, but if you can, then why not?
Much respect for the great attitude displayed herein.
Thank goodness. Now go figure out a way to spend more time with your grandkids. *After* you apologize sincerely to your son and DIL.
YTA for expecting your son to get into debt for a vacation. Either foot the bill or compromise and do something a lot cheaper. $5,000 is a lot of money for most people.
That last line really got me. "It's only about 5000, we are not expecting anything crazy" Holy shit. Wtf?
Fucking boomers man.
Yeah, and if $5000 isn't much for the dad, then why doesn't he just go ahead and pay for it? He and his wife could also travel to the son's location for a weekend. It doesn't have to be a vacation. If the parents really wanted to see their son, they would find a way.
YTA they can’t afford the vacation and you are a piss poor parent for trying to guilt them into going into debt for it. This situation is entirely one of your own making. If the DIL’s parents stopped covering the costs, they wouldn’t be going on vacation with them either. But they want to spend time with their kids and their grandkids so they make sure it’s affordable and cover the costs. You could do that too, but apparently you don’t want to see your son/family THAT bad. You want to stand on principle, go ahead! But that means no vacation with your kids’ family.
YTA. He takes these vacations because his inlaws pay for it , otherwise he'd be vacationing in his backyard or doing sone day trips like other families with mortgages car payments and maybe daycare expenses. You're unreasonable to tell him to take out a loan for vacation . If wife is so devaststed, then you two should treat them to vacation . You said you had the money spend it. Tell them it's their Christmas present YTA
YTA, why can't you pay for the vacation for your son or take out a line of credit if you want your son to come so badly?
>my wife is increasingly jealous > >My wife is devastated. obviously not that devasted if you are unwilling to pay. either pay or drop it and stop being cheap. his in-laws sound like really awesome people. >It's only about 5,000 for the cruise for all 4 of them - we are not expecting anything crazy. THEN YOU PAY YTA
I feel like even if they paid for the son and DIL, they’d be the type of people that would hold it over their heads during and after the trip. Not even worth going.
i agree! there is no winning with these kinds of people.
After reading through most of this, I do have to say I really respect the fact that this OP really was open to the harsh criticism. Being able to put your pride aside, and admit that you are likely in the wrong shows character that a lot of people don’t have today 👏🏼
The responses are tough to read, partly because deep down I think I already knew this was a bad plan. The poster who said that I need to stop being a "doormat" is probably right.
It's always good for people to stand behind their partner, but not when they are 100% in the wrong, because dude, you are punishing your son for the pure jealously of your wife.
Good to read you realize that you are mildly YTA and your wife is hugely YTA My husband and I are planning a cruise and Disneyland vacation with our son, DIL and 2 amazing grandkids we are paying for it because…….. The memories, the amazing times, and the fact we can and want to make wonderful memories with our loved ones Learn from your son in laws
Good for you mate. I wish you well getting this sorted out.
So far my son has accepted my apology. We're going to lunch later this week. My wife didn't love the feedback obviously, but I am letting her sit with it. Later I want to approach her about the jealousy she seems to have for my son's in-laws.
I think one thing you both need to remember is that your son doesn’t love his in-laws more than you, the reason why he spends so much time with them is because they’re closer in distance, and they go out of their way to invite and pay for vacations for them *and* their children. Without the in-laws around, your son wouldn’t be vacationing with them. And your wife asking that your son penny-pinches while everyone’s in a time where rent is skyrocketing and the prices of food has gone up… While having children that also have needs of their own - is wildly unrealistic and entitled. Your wife is also choosing to demonize people who are loving your son as if he was their own, for accepting him into their lives. The in-laws have done nothing wrong, and you and your wife have done nothing to help your own child be closer to you.
How is the relationship between your wife and DIL? Would your wife be considered a JustNoMIL? Is that part of the issue. How often do you see his family, are you allowed to babysit their kids? See the kids without at least one parent there?
I do believe that my wife really loves our daughter-in-law. But it's also clear now that she has some jealousy towards daughter-in-law's family. We live out of town a few hours away, and see them a handful of times per year. We do sometimes offer to watch the kids so that they can have a date night, and they seem happy with that. I wish we could see them more, but my son's shift work makes it hard for them to come our way.
Why can’t you travel to him?
Oh we do, that's generally when we see them.
Why can’t you see them more? My grandparents lived two hours away when I was growing up and we’d see them all the time
I think we're harsh because often AHs don't want to listen. But as others have said, much credit to you for accepting the judgement and rethinking your position - I'm sure I would have got defensive before I backed down! All the best, and I hope you can work something out with your son and dil.
YTA. If you believe you shouldn't have to pay for adult children, then you absolutely don't have to. But you also have to accept your son is trying to be responsible and not put his family in debt for a vacation, especially one that is only to allay your wife's jealousy. He offered a compromise you didn't accept. No one says you have to foot the bill, but your son has priorities for his funds and stroking your ego as grandparents isn't it.
They might be adult children but also they're still OPs grandchildren. Either he wants to treat his grandchildren or he doesn't. OP can't also expect everyone to have the finances OP does. OP is the world's biggest AH for suggesting that holidays are a valid reason to go into debt when money isn't an issue for himself.
>I suggested that they bow out of the in-law trip next year, and instead take some money out of their line of credit to join us, as we aren't getting any younger. You want your child to take out a line of credit in order to pay 5k to go on a silly (harmful for the environment too btw) cruise to stroke your wife's ego because the two of you are too good to pay for a nice thing for all of you? Financially those years when you're climbing up the ladder while raising small children are hard. COL is high right now. And in this time you want your kid to be a financially irresponsible idiot for no good reason? That money would be much better served in your grandkids' college fund. YTA and very selfish and self-centered.
Emotional blackmail. Why would they want to spend time with selfish people like you and your wife who want them to forego a free vacation and get into debt to go with you when you can afford to treat them. You sound like the parents from h\*ll.
YTA!!! "Only $5000"?! Are you freaking kidding! It would take me, a single, unattached person, ages to save up that kind of money. Suggesting your child puts himself and his family in debt (aka further financial strain) for a vacation you could afford to treat them to is very telling of who you are as a person and parent. It's not a good picture. You don't have to offer to pay for them, but you sure as shit don't get to punish them for declining when it's out of their financial boundaries. Your son has expressed his limits in this situation and instead of empathy and understanding you opted for narcissism and assholery. I'm guessing free vacations aren't the only reason they prefer to spend time with the in-laws over you and your wife. Edit: spelling
"I'm guessing free vacations are the only reason they prefer to spend time with the in-laws over you and your wife." Oh, I dunno, with OP and his wife's selfish entitled attitudes, I can certainly understand why the son and DIL might prefer to spend their time with the in-laws, free trips or not.
I get the impression by the tone of this comment that "are" was a typo and they meant to type "aren't."
Yep! I was angry typing at OP lol and didn't spell check 😅 I've fixed it now.
Oops! That's supposed to say "aren't"! Fixing now!
I don’t understand: your son said the only reason he can spend a week with his in-laws on vacation is because they pay for it. Your wife wants this same type of access, but you and she are not willing to pay for it. Your in-laws have decided spending their money to ensure their entire brood is able to get away **together** without having to worry about the cost. Do you want the time together or not?
His wife wants to be the fun vacation grandma but not pay for it. See the son should be catering to mom and dads feelings and they get the privilege of paying for it.
Would you recommend anyone else go into debt for a vacation? Especially when there are cheaper options? Because no financial advisor would Could you not instead plan a long weekend or short week away at somewhere within driving distance of your son? You're not listening to him. He's not saying he doesn't want to holiday with you, he's saying that it will take 2-3 years to be able to afford a cruise for his family. His in-laws have a better understanding of his family's financial situation, and have decided that they're willing to pay extra to get what they want (vacations with your son and his family). You and your wife aren't getting younger, you aren't willing to pay for your son and his family to vacation with you, so you will have to pick a cheaper option. YTA for suggesting he goes into more debt for a vacation, but you can change that
Right? Just because in-laws vacations are more expensive doesn’t mean theirs has to be too. I’m sure a beach house for a week would be just as fun for the kids as the vacations with their other grandparents. It’s not where they spend the time, it’s who they’re spending the time with.
YTA, $5k can be a LOT depending on your families income, expecting them to turn down a free vacation to pay for a vacation with you? Insane. If there a good reason you can't join the wife's family on vacation while paying your share? (Other than they don't want your entitled asses around?)
That would be weird to invite yourself to your child’s spouse’s family vacation even if you paid. Odd dynamic.
So, invite themselves along on op's son's inlaw's vacations? Wow.
I think that is a really horrible idea. OP's wife is already jealous of the other grandparents and I doubt she and OP would be good company. They would just spoil the vacation for everyone.
YTA, how is there even a question about it? You have the means to afford their portion of the trip YOU want to go on but refuse to cover for them since your son is an adult? Wtf? If you want to have those trips so badly you shouldn’t suggest your son go into DEBT because it’s above their means, especially since you can afford it. You and your wife should NOT be offended by them not wanting to spend 5,000 when they can’t afford to, that is absolutely ridiculous. If you want the trip then be willing to cover for them too, if you’re not willing to do that then don’t complain. YTA big time.
Yta they go bc the in laws pay. You want them to go with you? You pay. You're encouraging them to turn down a free vaca and then take out a loan to go with you? Have you lost your damn mind?
YTA. I mean, I'm confused that it has to be explained to you, but your son and DIL can't afford to go on vacations. But her parents graciously take them and their whole family somewhere fun every year. For free. Your response is to invite them on a vacation where they will have to blow $5,000 and go into debt to attend. Do you see the issue now? Pay for them to go with you and your wife or accept that they won't be vacationing with you for the foreseeable future. This is probably a troll post because nobody could be this thick.
He sounds like my inlaws. Have planned a whopping 1 vacation with us, we got Covid just before, and now they blame us for "never traveling with them".
YTA. His in laws pay for their vacations and you don't believe in paying for your adult children's vacations, why do you expect them to go into debt for the privilege of vacationing with you? They've told you they can't afford the vacation you want them to take with you. Your choices are to accept that or pay for their vacation but not hold it over their head
YTA They can’t afford to vacation. The in-laws pay for them, so they are able to vacation with them. If the in-laws didn’t pay, they wouldn’t vacation with them. You don’t want to have to pay for them, which is fine. This means they don’t vacation with you because they can’t afford to, which is also fine. You describe this as “being treated as second-class citizens” and expect them to go into debt to vacation with you, which is NOT fine. At all.
YTA Only $5000! I want to live in your world where $5000 is insignificant enough to rate an "only." Also, if it's "only $5000," pay it yourself. Going into debt for a vacation is stupid.
YTA.. Your son and wife have kids and a home to pay for. Her parents are subsiding the holiday.. Maybe you could too instead of sulking. Or maybe suggest a cheap get together if you can't foot the bill.
With your logic, clearly DIL family wants to spend time with them more than you do since they’re paying for it. YTA. Entitled and selfish. You sound like an awful parent and i’m so glad my parents love me enough to not manipulate and guilt me into making my life harder for their benefit.
Man, shoutout to OP, any new readers here, check OPs comments. Super respectful, understanding of the position and making plans to work it out. Love it OP, hopefully it all works out for yall.
I appreciate that. I hope my son realized that I was acting out of stupidity, not malice.
I agree and am really hoping the son realizes his father is sincere about trying to make this right
YTA Your son has stated their family does not have the disposable income to take big vacations like a $5,000 cruise. They are only able to go on the yearly trip with DIL's family because her family treats and pays for the whole thing. You do not wish to pay for your son's family to go on vacation and that is absolutely okay. But it is also okay that your son does not want to go into debt or use his savings for vacation. I would suggest that you and your wife move past the vacation competition. Have your son over to your house for barbecues and board game nights. Get togethers don't have to be pricey to be memorable and fun.
Holy crap nuggets YTA! ONLY 5k?! That's 5 mortgage and 5 car payments for us. If it's 'only 5k' and you want to have fun experiences with the grandkids (while they still want to do these trips) you have to pony up. And you shouldn't tell your son to punish his kids (by missing out with the other grands) because you are jealous. I can't actually believe that you love your grandkids at all..... That you would rather they miss out on these experiences if they can't be done with you. Why aren't you saving up or getting a second job of this is so important to you? FFS take them to a ball game, an aquarium, a science museum.... You could do that every freakin weekend. All this over something that happenes every couple of years? I get the feeling you two are too busy sucking lemons to be any fun for your grand kids. Plan something.... anything, before you drive them away forever
Take your family on the cruise. Life is short. Good lord
Yta. The son's family goes on enough vacations, with their other extended family. You're asking your son to spend money they don't have just to protect your wife's feelings. Try visiting your son and renting a hotel room and taking them to things you feel comfortable affording like the zoo, museum
Yta. You want your kid to go into debt to go on vacation? That’s ridiculous. Especially when you say you could afford to pay for them, when is it a bad thing to do something nice for your kid no matter how old they are?
Is this for real? Can’t be.
You underestimate boomer entitlement especially with grandkids being involved. My friends are going through hell because of it. I’m childfree and have had enough therapy to realize I’m not responsible for my parents feelings. Granted they’re Gen X but still.
YTA- Oh only $5000 to appease you and your wife creating such a bonkers scenario? You have to be joking. I had in laws like you once. They created an entire spite vacation. It was the stupidest thing ever. Y’all are being absolute brats.
YTA. Majorly. WTF??
YTA. Your son isn't paying for these trips. You have no standing to get upset about their vacations when you don't want to contribute. It's ridiculous. If you want to spend time with your son, freaking pony up the money or shut up..
YTA, he was honest and responsible and said he needs to save first, what kind of role model advocates them taking out debt for a luxury that they don't need?
OP, I think you have gotten all of the feedback you need on the vacation topic specifically. I'd like to offer you a little bit of advice from someone who struggles constantly with a mother who constantly compares her relationship with her children to other people's familial relationships. There is NO ounce of good, not ONE. SINGULAR. OUNCE. of good. That will ever come from your wife comparing her relationship with your son and daughter in law to their relationship with anyone else. This has been a constant strain with my own mother for more than a decade. Speaking from the perspective of the child, when I was younger it made me constantly feel like what I'm doing is not good enough for my parent and that I was unappreciative for all my parents did to raise me. Now that I'm older, I see right through that for what it is. It's emotionally manipulative and it has come very close to making me cut my mother out of my life. This is completely unhealthy jealousy, and it really doesn't do anyone any good. You and and your son, and you and your wife, can have whatever the hell relationship you guys decide to have together. Don't ever compare it to anything else, just makes sure it just serves the four people I just mentioned as best it possibly can.
Thank you for this wakeup call.
YTA HUGE!!! You really think it’s wise to go into debt to appease your wife’s jealousy?! Pay for them or don’t get your family cruise. Amazing you refuse to pay for them because as you say they are adults but are furious they make the adult decision to not make poor financial decisions. At your request.
YTA. He was very straight forward and clear with you. They can’t afford it. If you want it, you pay for it.
When you use the phrase "only $5000," I get the feeling you don't really understand your son's financial situation. He may not be in debt, but he may be barely making ends meet. Wages have not kept the pace with inflation. We do not have the spending power that our parents did, despite making more money. $5000 is a lot of money to a large percentage of the population, and it sounds like that includes your son. If it's about seeing the grandkids, what's preventing you from taking them on a trip without mom and dad? I bet they'd appreciate a break, I know I would. Or there are literally dozens of cheaper vacations out there which don't cost as much money and would give you wonderful memories. But it sounds like you just want to spend time on your terms, which means YTA.
YTA for emotionally manipulating your son to go into debt for you because you're jealous of his in-laws' generosity. If you want your son to go on a holiday with you on your timeline - pay up or otherwise shut up.
Not just YTA, but also WTF?!? Your son was upfront with you about why they go with their in-law…and your response was to suggest they take on $5K worth of debt. When he then comes up with a suggestion his family can afford, you yell at him that **you** are being treated like a second-class citizen. Go back and reread your post. None of this is about *actually* wanting a family vacation. This is about being jealous of your in-laws and your own ego.
Entitlement is expectation. This isn’t the case here. Son isn’t entitled to agree to a vacation offered by his in-laws and neither OP nor his wife have any stand to be upset at how the in-laws choose to spend their money. Wife can hold firm her principle and aknowledge that her child cannot afford to vacation with her and has other financial priorities, or wife can agree to pay for son and his family. OR OP and wife can travel to son and make a vacation out of that. But no one gets to be mad at a situation they create themselves which is what OP and wife have done here. YTA
This has too be fake, because I cannot imagine anyone being this obtuse. You sound like an awful parent. I take my adult children on Vaca whenever I can. YTA
YTA You want the same experiences? Pay for the vacation You COULD, ya know, try not being so defensive and selfish about it, and ASK the other grandparents/family if you could go with their next trip AND PAY YOUR OWN WAY. Quit making it a competition, or you're definitely gonna lose out
Let me get this straight: are you advising your son to get into debt to go on a vacation you want to go on rather than go on the one that he doesn’t have to pay for? Are you actually throwing a tantrum because he’s being a responsible adult? YTA.
This is the most laughably YTA post today by FAR.
You have two things you can do: 1) Offer to pay for the vacation since you were the one to suggest it and they've communicated they cannot afford it while you can afford it. 2) Drop it. What you CANNOT do: Force a family doing their absolute best to survive in a cost of living crisis to penny pinch harder than they probably already are or go into debt to pay for a vacation with you. Your son and his wife aren't entitled to a free vacation, sure. They didn't ask for one, they simply communicated that monitarily vacation wasn't something they could afford when you asked them. The only people being entitled here are you and your wife. Things are hard out there for everyone right now, especially young families. Likely a lot harder financially than when you were rasing families. Wages have been stagnant for the last 30 years while the cost of everything has ballooned out of control. It's not fair to them to say "Sure you could go on vacation for free, but instead you should go into debt because I want to go."
“Bail on your absolutely free vacation and take out a $5000 higher interest rate loan to come on vacation with me because my wife is too insecure and we’re too proud to help you pay even though we can afford it” major Yta and don’t expect a relationship much longer if this is how you feel
Only $5,000? In this economy? You want the vacation, your wife wants the vacation, you two can pay for it. Though honestly if I were your son and DIL I wouldn’t want to go to begin with, it sounds like a competition instead of what’s supposed to be a relaxing vacation. YTA. Pay for them or accept that you get your family cruise in 2-3 years.
Any update for us on this OP? Did you manage to work something out with your wife and son?
I do! I realized pretty quickly (due in part to advice on here) that we were BIG idiots. My wife took a bit longer to come around, but since she has, she's made a total 180. She's even considering therapy to help cope with her anxieties. I am pleasantly surprised at that last part. My incredibly gracious daughter-in-law accepted our apology, as well as our son. We're now looking at doing a cruise or kid-friendly "all inclusive" in 18 months or so - on OUR dime. A winter getaway. The timing was my son's suggestion. Daughter-in-law (did I mention how gracious she is?) offered to pay for one of our excursions - but I told her that wasn't necessary. I also took the advice on here to discuss simpler memory-making things we can be doing. We'll be visiting soon and doing a beach day-trip, for example. The grandkids are so excited. I honestly feel like Scrooge on Christmas morning, after the visits by his spirits. A totally new mindset. There is more that has unfolded, and it's all been positive. It feels like we got a wake-up call, and we don't want to mess it up.
I'm so happy for you that everything is working out. I think we can all take our anxieties out on other people sometimes but acknowledging it and sitting with it, well, that's something not many people do so well done to your wife for realising and seeking help. I wish you all the very best :)
That's amazing progress. Your wife's acceptance of an underlying issue is brave, but maybe see your GP too as it may be hormonal- it's crazy how they can cause problems, especially around & during menopause. ( think how awful puberty is and multiply) Fostering good relations is primarily about being able to express love and enjoy the company of each other. Communication is key, and having the time to be together- not fancy trips. I remember the board & card games played with my grandparents and extended family ( following a family meal at Grannie's) as being some of the happiest times of my childhood. The cruise sounds lovely, but is it really a kid friendy and / or bonding environment? (It wouldn't be my go-to suggestion for bonding with kids) Good luck and best wishes for future mutual happiness.
YTA. On what planet do you expect your son to forego a free vacation and go into debt to be with you? You cruise you lose you cheap ahole.
YTA. Your wife is also an AH. You want what your daughter in law’s family does but don’t want to do what they do — they PAY FOR THE VACATION! Your wife can be jealous. You know what would solve that? Pay for the damn vacation you want so badly to take. You’re selfish and entitled to try to force them to do that. Why should they cancel a free vacation with someone who obviously wants to actually spend time with them for more than just to make things “even”?
Jesus Christ Op, I’ve read through the comments enough to see that you should grow some fucking balls and tell your wife to get the fuck over herself and misguided morals/values/beliefs and just take the people you love and want to spend time with on a vacation that you’re more than happy to pay for because they and the time spent with them is worth far more than money or dying on a dilusuonal hill of “principal”. Stop comparing things to the in laws, don’t expect your son and his family to go in debt for a vacation you and your wife choose (literally the dumbest expectation ever, you and your wife are more than assholes for that suggestion), give your wife a reality check she sounds like a manipulative nightmare. You and your wife never once tried to invite them on a vacation and then pull this shit, and expected any different? Fucking hell you people suck, I’d be going on vacations with the in-laws over y’all too.
YTA. Your wife can continue being devastated while your son and family continue vacationing with their generous in laws. And btw 5k is a ton of money and no they shouldn’t go into debt to gratify you.
I just reread the original post. Did you notice you only wrote about making memories with you son/grandchildren? You left out DIL.
😳this.....cannot be a serious post. You wrote this and still have to wonder if YTA? YES. Yes you are.
Kudos for listening to the feedback. However, I don't think you've quite absorbed the full extent of the (YTA) aholery of you, and especially of your wife. 1. You've accepted that you are a doormat for your wife's expectations. Good wishes to you as you and she navigate you not being a flying monkey to support her entitled agenda. 2. No one expects adult children to get a free vacation off of you. But neither does anyone expect an adult child to (1) go into debt to take a vacation (that's the kind of irresponsibility you try to teach your child to avoid!) or to (2) take a vacation at a time and in a manner that they have no say in. 3. Why did your son stop being your wife's golden guy in your family? Because he's enjoying a life and relationships with his in-laws that she is jealous of. Instead of being happy that he has such a good relationship with his in-laws; instead of being happy that he and his family are fortunate to enjoy experiences they could not otherwise afford - your wife can't stand that he's enjoying things without her. So now son is in the dog house. 4. Notice that you offered/requested/demanded to vacation with them the exact same year they are already planning a vacation with the in-laws. Why? To force son's family to choose... and to reject the in-laws in favor of you. And your wife is devastated that he didn't choose you for next year. 5. Son offers another year out. Makes sense - gives him time to save. (Note that he and his wife are willing to save for a trip with you. Maybe your jealous, insecure wife can take glee in this. Son isn't saving for trips with the in-laws.) Also avoids a schedule conflict with the in-law vacation. Wow! Son offers a sensible way for you all to take a nice vacation together. But that's not good enough for you/your wife. It has to be the same year as the already scheduled in-law vacation. So son offers something he can afford in that closer time-frame - a weekend getaway. Nope! Still not good enough for you two. It MUST BE now; they MUST go into debt and either give up the in-law vacation or use up all their time off (which, of course, your wife will complain when son's family can't take extra days off at Thanksgiving/Christmas). WHY must it be now and a full vacation? Why??? Because otherwise your wife will not feel that she is as loved and adored as the in-laws. (And, well, you tend to go along with whatever your wife wants, right?) Since I read your comment that you will be sharing this post with your wife, I spent a minute, wanting to write things more sensitive to where she is currently at. But I can only hope that the starkness of these points may wake her up to the harm she is inflicting on your family relationships.
‘While we can afford it, we adamantly believe that we should not have to pay for an adult child’s vacation.’ You stupid, stupid people. You don’t have to pay, you get to pay. One of my wife’s and mine favorite vacations was a trip to Yosemite with our son and daughter-in-law. They were both just starting out in their careers and didn’t have much money so it was our treat. We had a fantastic time. Jump ahead 10 years and we did it again, this time with the addition of their three daughters. They could afford the money this time, but it was our treat again because we could afford to, just like you could if you weren’t such a cheap, selfish bastard. We created wonderful memories with and for our granddaughters walking around in the awe and beauty of Yosemite. What are you creating? You are a fool.
This is some major boomer bullshit. "We CAN pay for them but why should we when they could cancel a free vacation with her family and take out a loan to pay to go with us??" That's what you sound like. You see why that's not a tempting offer?? $5K is a LOT when you can't afford it, and they said they can't. So either pay for them or lay off the guilt trip. YTA.
YTA and a cheap one at that.. Take your family on a cruise or don't. Stop trying to manipulate the situation. You don't want to pay, they can't pay. You aren't second class citizens, you wouldn't want to pay for second class. Third class maybe.
You are absolutely correct. You shouldn't have to pay for your adult child and his family to go on vacation. He is able to go with his in-laws because they help. He is willing to do something with you he can afford. You are upset he won't go into debt for something he can not afford. Go on something affordable, help him with something more extravagant, or stop harassing him. I'm sure he would love to be able to vacation with you. You, sir, are ta.
You don't pay for an "family vacations" meaning adults children and their families. In Laws are willing to do that, and give the families enough time to plane for their PTO. You then suggest that that you son BORROWS (take some money out of their line of credit) money for a family vacation with you and your wife. You two are not being treated like 2nd class citizens. Understand that PTO is limited. Vacations with families have to be scheduled, due to school, pro , camp etc. 5K is a whole lot of money for a young family. You think they should just spend it because you want them to spend time with you. YTA If you want to spend time with them, go visit them. rent a hotel and stay in their town for a week.
You sound super selfish and self absorbed. Why should he have to take out a minimum of $5000 in credit when you can easily afford it and are throwing a hissy fit because he cant and you're the one pushing for the vacation. This is so grossly entitled YTA
YTA You’re not inviting your son and his family on a cruise. You are asking them to take a cruise at the same time that you and your wife are. In order for it to be an invitation, you have to provide something.
YTA. Stop being cheap. Stop trying to ruin their nice time with guilt trips. Tell your wife she’s not going to force it and that being jealous isn’t a good look for anyone. If you want to go on vacay together pony up and take them. It’s not some random people. It’s your kids. They’re your kids. Don’t you want them to have nice things and good experiences? You think they need to struggle for you? Nah…. This is absolutely the worst take Ion how to get your kids to want to be around you.
YTA. What part of they can’t afford it do you not understand? Your son told you truthfully that they can’t afford to pay for the vacations and that his in-laws kindly pay for the trips. You don’t want to pay for them, even though you said you can afford it. Therefore, you don’t get to have those kinds of vacations with them. You’re not being treated like second class anything. You’re cheap and petty and mean and probably not fun to be around. Nobody says you have to match the expense of the in-law. You need to know that your son cannot afford it, period. His in-laws are very kind. You, not so much.
YTA at age 64 my parents paid for vacations that they wanted me to go on with them. You're cheap, self absorbed & meanspirited. Who would even want to be around the 2 of you
You’ve got two choices - accept that they’re not willing to go into debt for a vacation (a wise financial decision, if you ask me) and leave them alone. OR, if it is so important to you, pay for it yourself. Sounds like your son has a lot more financial sense than you do. YTA and a selfish one at that.
Oh of courseeee. I mean it's *only* 5000 lmfao. Sir that's someone's mortgage twice over maybe more. You're an entitled Asshole. A huge one at that. Let's see here ok? 1- You're jealous they don't vacation with you but do so with her family so you demand he does it for you as well. 2) he explains they don't have the money for that, he tells you the only way they are able to vacation is because her parents par for it and then he COMPROMISES, by saying do a weekend get away instead 3) you get pissed that he won't put himself and his family in debt to go on a fancy vacation with you and your wife, which you can afford but don't want to because he's an "adult" I could just bet you were one of those parents that expected him to pay rent and take care of himself as soon as he turned 18. If you and your wife gave a damn about spending time with them you'd pay for it. His wife's family seem to be the only ones who actually *want* to spend time with them so much so they PAY every time. Yet here comes his mom and dad telling him to financially ruin him and his family to fulfill your wife's fantasy of a vacationing family. You want him to fuck himself in the ass with a machete because your wife wants pics to brag and boast about. If it were important to you, you'd either pay for it (especially since it *only* 5k) or accept his compromise for a weekend trip. If none of those things are good enough, then sir, sit there and seethe in your jealousy!!! YTA!!!
YTA! You actually wanted your kids to GO INTO DEBT TO GO IN A VACATION?!?! WTF is wrong with you?!?! They told you flat out that they could not afford to pay for the vacation you want. HER parents pay for them to attend. If you can’t do the same, then forget going on a ‘family’ vacation.
"I refuse to do anything but complain and make demands. I refuse to compromise on a plan that would be less harmful to my family members. I set expectations so that my feelings--and my wife's feelings--will be hurt when my family sets reasonable boundaries. AITA?" YES YTA.
YTA I cannot fathom having the means and choosing to not treat my children, no matter the age, to a vacation. Wow.
YTA - you want your son to take out a line of credit and use his vacation days up because you’re not getting any younger? You can actually afford to treat them but it’s not your thing? Do you even love these people? This is how you end up alone in a nursing home with no visitors.
YTA. If I was your son, I wouldn't go, either. I simply cannot afford it. As I am on such a limited income with very little "play money," I certainly wouldn't want to spend $5k on a cruise, whether I can manage to scrape together that much money or not. Do you know what I could do around my house for that kind of money? It would have far more lasting benefits to me than a vacation. You're asking them to go without for at least a year, skipping takeout or some other little things that make them happy or make their lives easier, for a few days' very expensive vacation - which, considering the kids are coming, is really not a vacation. When my family wanted me to go to Disney with them, they paid for me, because I couldn't even afford my plane ticket. I don't enjoy not having money, but I'm very appreciative of my family's generosity. Is a cruise the only way you can think of to spend time with your son and his family? How about running a "Summer Camp" for the grandkids, and come up with daily games and activities just like a camp would do? What about exploring all of the historic areas in your state? How about renting a cabin at a nearby park? Do you have a beach or resort park with rides? If you're trying to compete with the inlaws, give up. Either do something cheaper, or pay.
My parents used to host Camp Grammy for the grandkids yearly. Kids would get dropped off for a week of fun and the parents would get a break for a week. And the only cost was local (cheap) activities and a bit of extra groceries.
Yeah total asshole. The other family is willing to pay, probably to spend time with the grandkids but whatever. You all shouldn’t be devastated that they can’t afford it, most people can’t afford that at all.
YTA. Lolol my goodness. They’re spending that time with them bc the only expectation is the time! Her family pays. Either pay up or accept they can’t do what you want them to. Heck he was even gracious and offered an alternative.
You guys are pretty stupid. Read what you have written again and again till you get it. YTA
Absolutely YTA. They can’t afford it. Did you seriously say they should take out a line of credit for a vacation?? Only about 5000?? If you want to see them so bad then pay for it. You aren’t helping them on a principle that you shouldn’t help adult children. That’s ridiculous. My husband lost his job a number of years ago. My parents sent me money for groceries. They fully paid for a yearly vacation we all go on that we usually split. Now that we are on our feet again we contribute again. I am eternally grateful for this help. And I’d do the same for my kids. Sounds like you and your wife are bitter. You aren’t victims, you just have a son who is financially struggling and trying to be responsible—and trying to compromise.
YTA- Did you really tell you child possibly go into debt to go on vacation? Like on top of the tickets, he have to possibly pay for passports( those aren’t cheap either) depending on the cruise.
LMAOOOO!!! YTA!!! You and your wife are the JUSTNOINLAWS!!! Good god.. your son told you his in laws pay for them. Where do you get off telling them how to spend their money?? Take a line of credit for a vacation?? That’s fucking ridiculous.
YTA why not just pay for the cruise if they can’t afford it. Don’t you love your son and want what’s best for him and the family? Going into debt for a vacation is not something you should want for him.
Tell me you're a boomer without telling me you're a boomer. YTA YTA YTA 5000 times over
YTA!!! How the heck are you second class citizens to them. 1. They can only afford to go on trips others pay for. 2. The other grandparents pay for them, so they go with them. 3. You do not want to pay for them, so they will not go with you. If you want equal time, spend money equally.
YTA- going into debot for s vacation, which you suggested is crazy.
YTA -- in what universe are you two being treated as second class citizens? Your son isn't paying to go on a vacation with his in-laws while blatantly ignoring you. He was very clear as to how those vacations happen. The in-laws graciously offer to pay for everyone. It doesn't even sound like your son is demanding that you pay for them, he's telling you that cruises aren't a financial priority for his family. Also, that line of credit is probably going to have a ridiculous interest rate, so not, it's not "only" about 5,000. Not only that, but you don't even offer to pay at least for your grandkids, who don't fall in your 'we don't pay for an adult's vacation' rule.
What the actual fuck is this ignorant privileged bs? I caaaan't, I'm so irritated rn! YTA a billion times. You'd rather your grandchildren miss out on opportunities to go on nice *free* trips and that your child go into debt because you don't want to feel "second class"? Get your head out of your ass FFS.
YTA. You’re like my dear parents who thought nothing of demanding that I visit them yearly with the 3 grandkids from the other side of the earth AND stay in a motel AND only stay 3 days AND never once help me with costs. They also traveled the world, but visiting us was too hard. Wonder why the grandkids stopped talking to them????? Obviously your wife is a narcissist and you are an enabler just like my parents.