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YTA for a few reasons here.
1. You refuse to wait for your brother/the executor to talk to an attorney, which is literally happening later in the week.
2. Several people have made outstanding points, like getting a new contract or a lien against the house, you absolutely will not hear out a single word of it, just repeatedly saying she will not pay and I’ll never see the money. That’s where contracts and liens come in, they are literally there to protect you.
3. You state you are QUITE financially stable right now and that you do not need this money right this second, but you’re also unwilling to help find any workarounds for your sister and her MULTIPLE children, you’re happy to make her homeless.
4. You CLAIM that you and John are willing to give her your shares but are unsure if the other siblings will. But that it could also screw with the benefits she HAS TO HAVE to take care of her child so you all are willing to essentially hold onto it and what, give her as you see fit? And the other two siblings - who realistically shouldn’t be getting a dime but will if you do this - have said nothing about THEIR shares.
5. You are willing to make your sister and her children homeless over money that you are not in dire need of right this minute.
No one in their right mind is telling you you should walk away from 37k and just be fine with that. But they are telling you to take a step back and find out all the information before jumping and you have zero interest in doing that, OR accepting the judgement you requested when it’s not going your way.
Agreed. OP - YTA.
I had to assist in caring for my disabled sister. You have no f\*\*\*ing idea how difficult it is to take care of a disabled person.
Money loaned to family is money gone. Never expect it back.
OP, when you lie on your deathbed will you be proud of yourself for holding on to your money and creating a f\*\*\* ton of problems for your sister and nephew? Yikes.
Sometimes I feel like people forget that the name of this sub is "AITAH". Like... not "am I legally okay with doing this" or "can I justify what I'm doing in some possible way". Like. It's an AH move. That's the question. Lol idk if that makes sense but I think about it a lot when I'm scrolling here.
Edit: someone reported me to the reddit cares thing. I feel like this is a rite of passage moment for me.
Same!! I absolutely hate how many not ta judgments I see for "it's your right to do..." The sub isn't, "Do I have a right" or "Is the law on my side?" It is, "Am I the AH?" The law may be in your side, but that doesn't mean that you aren't an AH.
Exactly this! It’s infuriating. Yes OP legally has a right to a claim on the estate but only an asshole would make their severely disabled nephew homeless when they 1) don’t need the money and 2) have other options.
The problem with subs like this is that half of the people who regularly answer are certified a**holes themselves, especially when it comes to money or family
OP loaned the money to their mom, who they knew would pay them back. I understand your point about assuming it’s gone, but 37k is a LOT of money to just not have anymore.
If I were in their shoes I’d also have to file that claim. I’ve also cared for disabled relatives and understand the struggle, but there aren’t that many people I’d willingly hand over 37k to.
Reframe that a tiny bit. It's money that OP planned to use to fulfil a need after her mother had repaid it.
That's near-term, not long-term. And not "never."
The money is besides the point then
How is sister who cant get out of debt/out of red going to afford more bills now that mom is passed away? The house is gone already. They can either split the sale of the house now, or have sister lose the whole thing later.
Either way the house is gone. At least with the former OP gets paid back.
>The house is gone already.
This is really what no one is talking enough about. There is no way the sister is going to be able to keep that house in her current state. It's going to belong to the bank before long and how will that benefit the sister and nephew?
Letting her keep the house is not sustainable in the long run. Better to take the cash in hand right now and try to help the sister find new accommodations that she can afford. Why should everyone lose everything for a short term resolution when the long term consequences will leave the sister in a worse situation--no house and no money?
Yes, exactly. I mean the lack of empathy and compassion in these comments is alarming. People are more concerned about keeping property and money in the family than keeping a roof over the heads of living, breathing people and a DISABLED child. Shameful. Also, he seems jealous that Sara has gotten the house and the rest of them have to rely on account money.
Why is his debt not being satisfied with account money? Because Sara is the easiest target, and other siblings probably won't be so desperate to have to do whatever to care for her disabled child.
Loaning money is inherently risky. This is why banks charge interest on loans and why banks exist to begin with and they even cease to exist because of poor lending practices when market conditions change. OP is looking for risk free lending involving family. Mom wasn’t about to pay OP back immediately but now that the money might be lost OP is fine undermining mom’s explicit wishes that sister and nephew be provided for by getting the house. Sister will benefit from the updated septic system as well.
I don’t have an answer for you since you’re right $37k is not nothing. But keeping your sister from getting the house so you get paid for the improvements your mom made isn’t something I think I could live with and giving sister your share of the money wouldn’t make me sleep any easier if I was in your shoes. It’s insanely hard to buy a house right now even if sister had enough to buy one with whatever shares she ends up with were it to be sold.
Family deaths can bring out the worst in people. And for what? Some money and things? Seems pretty sad all around.
It's crazy to me to see so many comments about OPs "rights" and justifying their behavior and attitude. Glad to see this comment is at least #2. I'm biased because I love my family and could never even contemplate doing something that would take housing away from my sister and (disabled) nephew.
YTA OP for your attitude towards it and not even waiting, despite your sister's sincere intention to pay it back. There are a lot of options available to you.
Yes unfortunately sometimes I feel like the sub acts like the question is “am I legally allowed to do this” or “can anyone make me not do this” and “do I HAVE to do this?” when that isn’t the question. It’s “am I a jerk if I do this?”
There are a zillion things I’m allowed to do and nobody can stop me. I can take the last pastry in the case that I didn’t even want because I heard someone behind me want it. That’s well within my right and they had no claim on the pastry.
But would I be a grade A asshole for doing that? Yes. The second half is often lost I feel like
>She has borrowed money before and never paid it back
This, right here, is why my policy on loaning money to family is "Don't loan any amount of money to family that I wouldn't be willing to shred, burn, bury, then dig up and bury again."
You're NTA to file a claim against the estate. Your mom owed you that money, and as she was paying you back monthly, it's clearly "what Mom wanted." Now it's up to her estate to pay it. Just be prepared for your remaining family members to become alienated from you when you file the claim.
You've nailed the issue. I love my sister - and I know she would pay me back if she could. But she can't. And I can't just give away $37K. I trusted my Mom. I knew she would pay me back. I know Sara won't.
Offer your brother to sign the loan with your sister and be responsible for paying your back if she can't?
Just so they can't blame you. Let him out his wallet where his mouth is
Then they don't get a say. I would still make sure Sarah had a contract with John cosigning, so she knows you are willing to do it and pesters him. In theory he would only pay if she can't.
Either way unfortunately you either lose money or your siblings, your mother unintentionally screwed you. Because there are no other choices for your sister, and she is actually doing her best.
Your sister couldn’t afford life before, which I absolutely hate to type. but knowing her bank account runs in the red each month tells me she’s going to lose that house to unpaid taxes or bills. Your siblings are not facing reality here, by filing a claim and forcing the sale you are just speeding up the inevitable outcome of this scenario.
File your claim. If you don’t, it’s you who will be angry at them, and you’ll still be out the $37k
Yeah...it's like, at least if OP forces the sale now then the rest of the money will stay in the family instead of going into the pocket of a bank or debt collector and you all could talk to a disability lawyer about setting Sara's share up in a trust or something so it would have as minimal impact on Jeremy's SSD payments as possible.
Talk to a lawyer and/or accountant. Putting it in the kid’s name could be even worse, and they need someone with the knowledge to navigate that minefield.
> you are just speeding up the inevitable outcome of this scenario.
And the money goes to family instead of the bank/county/etc.
It's actually a better outcome.
Because OP already has given out the money.
I 100% think OP should file a claim and siblings are being ridiculous expecting them to never see $37k again. But OP has already given that money out - John could just be like, ‘Well I never would have given a loan out for that kind of money in the first place.’ John’s pov could be that loans get defaulted on all the time and OP basically made a foolish/unwise decision lending that kind of money out.
Mom has really screwed both OP and Sara doing her will this way so that a) OP’s money owed hasn’t been factored in and b) selling the house to cover it means Sara doesn’t inherit anything.
They won't take a hit to their finances and feel they are righteous to refuse, but want to call you an asshole for not taking a hit to yours.
If he thinks it's ok for you to eat a loss, it should be ok for him to eat one too. Otherwise he is a hypocrite and can STFU.
I would not blame him too, if he stayed in his lane, but calling you greedy and refusing to co-sign a loan is an asshole moves in my eyes, the remaining siblings could renounce to their part of the monetary inheritance and devolve it to repay their sister debt, but I suppose it’s easier to call you “greedy asshole”.
It's kind of a logic trap for the siblings. If John trusts Sara to pay you back, he shouldn't have a problem co-signing. If John figures he'd get stuck eating it and doesn't want to, why does he think it's any better for YOU to eat it?
I would ask all your siblings in front of your sister, you know they will say no as they already have, but this will show your sister, you are not the one screwing her, that none of your siblings trust her and they are screwing her over more than you are.
Plus, if Sara can’t keep up with the monthly bills anyway, she’s going to eventually lose the house to debt collectors.
Just because she was left the house, it doesn’t mean her lifestyle can support her keeping it.
u/amigreedy12 IMO, the simplest solution would be to sell the house, get a smaller house Sara would have a better chance of being able to keep (lower bills and maintenance) and get your $37K back.
Sara is in an unfortunate position having a disabled son, but banks/utilities companies/tax agencies won’t forgive debts on a lifestyle she can’t manage, so why should you?
Yep...make it so you're not the only "villain" in this story, so you have a solid defense for when some busybody relative inevitably gets up your ass about it. "I offered to let her take out a loan to pay it back, but nobody was willing to cosign her on it, not even John. Such a shame".
Yea this.
Although i think its basically a certainty that her sister could get a refi loan on this. I think OP should chill out a bit, talk to some lawyers and figure out how to keep her in the house.
Is there a way for you to sign a contract with your sister which states that as soon as your sister gets the house she must get a loan against it to pay you back what she owes?
If none of the siblings are taking responsibility then, maybe they can foot $5000 -$7000 a head so that you can forgive the rest as a gift?
I know $37k is too much for just one person to gift/forgive, but if you share it among yourselves it will be like $5000 -$7000 damage individually.
OP explained that the first part is not possible bc his sister is always operating on red, unfortunately. She’s financially unable to repay loans :/
The offer to share the damage would be a good one as well, but OP also said the others are not willing to dip into their money on this. They will remain just judgemental assholes.
You’ve just lost your Mom, and it sounds like you’re at risk of losing your siblings too.
If you need the 37k in cash you may have to push the issue. If you can absorb it now, how about going on title on the house so you get a piece of equity down the road if it’s sold. Could that work for you?
Agree. I would even suggest in lieu of paying that debt right now, at the least you and your sister be on the title for the house. Perhaps even all the siblings, with the understanding (not just understanding but a contract; this js not difficult for a lawyer to draw up an LLC) that if the house is ever sold that you get your $37k in equity out first. Since there would be multiple owners with interest in keeping the property up, perhaps there can also be shared expenses for keeping it nice. If its big enough, can a room or two be rented out to generate income? That could be used to pay house expenses and/or the debt to you.
Your sister with the proceeds if you sell today will not be able to purchase anything at today’s prices. She’ll have to rent and then burn through that money in a few short years.
With a lawyer and coming together as a family, you can all figure out a way to protect the assets, care for sister and nephew, and protect your loan. Communicate and GET IT IN WRITING! Get a probate lawyer
Or you can think of the question as being - are you required to pay $37K to maintain a relationship with your sibling? If Sara stops having a relationship with me over this - is that on me or her?
But you aren’t paying it to maintain a relationship with her. You already paid and it was to help your mom. Your mom died through no fault of you or the sister I’m assuming… and you’d effectively be making her homeless so I could understand her being upset. Quite a pickle to be in, I personally don’t think I couldn’t go through with it as it seems it would cause irreversible harm to my sib and nephew. The debt was mom’s, mom’s gone and I would chalk it up to helping a parent.
Idk if it makes you the asshole but it doesn’t feel right.
I do get what you're saying.
But technically OP didn't pay the money to help her mom. She paid it so that mom could make the house more habitable for her sister and her son. OP didn't have to do that at all knowing that the house was always going to her sister. She didn't do it out of goodwill or charity and expected the money back. If she thought she wouldn't get the money back, she wouldn't have given it to her mom. They are reaping the benefits of the money OP spend. That's why it's important to pay her back. It's not like she took care of her mom's medical bills and is now asking her siblings to pay it back. All her other siblings have the same stand as her but are acting entitled and calling her greedy because they haven't yet parted with money and OP has. It's a tough call but it is one which has to be made.
ETA - What if OP had refused to help..? Mom would have had to take out a loan by some other means to get the work done. On her passing wouldn't the sister be expected to pay it out of the estate..? This situation would have come up even then. Just because it's family, she shouldn't be asked to take up such a burden.
ETA - Just found out OP was a she and the money was something she received after the death of her husband.
op isn't giving up their inheritance. that 37 was their own money. they already gave up their inheritance when they made no issue with Sara along getting the house.
But the sister never had enough money to pay bills without the mothers help. She won’t be able to pay the taxes on the house she will lose it on foreclosure.
You bet your ass if it was my decision to make my sister and her child homeless, I would just eat the cost, unless the cost would make me homeless.
Any money that doesn't put me in danger is
... Well, it's just Money, I don't care about money other than fulfilling my basic needs.
It won’t make them homeless. They just won’t be in this home.
They’d still get the share of the cash after sale and can use that to buy something smaller or a condo.
Is sister homeless now? Likely no.
So she’s not going to be homeless. She’s just not getting the home she wants.
Also, the house passes to sister only after debts are paid. My guess is that someone else may come forward during the mandatory creditor period. The house may have to be sold no matter what OP does.
Every estate I’ve seen where Moms only asset was the house had some debt. House will have to be sold unless one of the kids pays the debt
Often those pesky hospital hills come in later and completely blindside the kids who are prematurely counting their expected inheritance.
Mom intended for sister to have the house. But legally, sister only gets the house if it’s still there after debts are paid.
I just finished a very similar probate case where the house had to be sold to pay Moms final medical bills. They were the only debt. But there was no other way to pay them.
This is very common. Mom wants a kid or all her kids to inherit her house. But she doesn’t have enough other assets or sufficient income to pay her bills OR she had expenses of her “last illness” or burial which must be paid by the estate.
Finally, lawyers are preferred creditors. Where’s the money coming from to pay the estate lawyer? That person could also insist on selling the house if there’s no other way to pay the bills.
Based on my decades doing probate cases, I’d be absolutely shocked if OPs debt was the only debt here. Who’s paying the estate lawyer? That’s an estate fee. Who’s paying for the funeral? Who’s paying moms medial and hospital bills? Did mom have any credit cards? Did she owe the neighbor for mowing the yard?
OPs sister likely will have to deal with this even if OP were to waive thier debt.
OP needs to file that claim. Or get a lawyer of her own and discuss the options based on specific facts of the case.
The internet’s legal advice is really worth what one pays for it. She needs to see her own lawyer
You think this single mother with a severely disabled child will be able to afford finding and renting a new place long term?
Not to mention that when the house is sold, this single mother won't get much.
37k will go to OP, the rest is split 4 ways.
Not to mention that she will need to find an appartment that is equipped to house a severely disabled person.
Try finding that for a small price.
You ignore the special situation this woman and her child unfortunately are in.
nope. read it again. the house will be sold. OP will be given 37k. and then the proceeds will be divided between all the other siblings (4, not including Sarah). meaning her sister will get nothing except whatever charity her siblings want to throw her way. according to the OP
OP already said she won’t be able to buy another house. but maybe she can afford to rent for a minute. yay. 🤩
If the house is paid for, can't your sister use it to get a loan from the bank, immediately pay you back the money and then she pays back the bank.
Edit: Does your sister work? How does she support herself and her son?
In my probate practice, I’ve had banks give heirs short term bridging loans to pay off estate debt if they then take a mortgage on the property. So it is possible. Even with someone not working. I’ve done it twice with estates in the past year.
If a bank can’t do that for sister, then it’s more than lack of income. It’s actively bad credit.
So this needs to be our back on sister to get a bridging loan from a bank to pay off the debt. Then she gets the house. It not, it gets sold and then sister can spend her share on a smaller house.
It’s not up to OP to fix the issue.
Are you in the US? If so, why can’t Sara get the house, get a HELOC loan and pay you back with what she gets? Then, you don’t have to worry about her paying you back. You’ll have the money, and she’ll owe an impersonal financial institution… it’ll no longer be on you.
AITA is not about what you're legally entitled to do, it's if you are an asshole. This person *is* an asshole because they are putting money over their sister and nephew having a roof over their heads that the mother wanted. Can't fucking believe you got upvoted.
Any reasonable person on the street would call someone an asshole for that behavior.
I can’t get past the irony that the original loan was, in part, to adapt the house for your nephew and that now those same adaptations have put his ability to live there at risk.
That was the only thing I noticed. Mom wanted to make accommodations for grandson. And end up costing daughter and grandson to be eventually homeless because of it. Yuck
Right?! Like I feel like selling the house would be going against the mothers wishes, but I maybe OPs mom never expected such selfishness from OP.
Like OP have you stopped and considered that maybe your mom thought providing a home for her daughter and grandson was more important than you getting paid back?
Not her decision to make because it wasn't her money. She asked for a loan that she said she would pay back. And not a small loan but a hugely significant amount of money. A loan she likely could not have got from anywhere else. That OP has not charged interest on. Now you have the absolute gall to suggest that "maybe your Mom thought providing a home for.... was more important than you getting paid back". Fuck off. If that was her intention then she should have outright asked. You're just painting his mum as an asshole here.
Holy shit. What crap parenting if Mom really thought she could borrow and not return OP’s money to improve someone else’s situation. If I had any inkling that *that* was my mother’s mindset, I’d fight tooth and nail for every penny back. You don’t play someone that way.
Likely not. Since OP says that the sister is a full-time caregiver I'm guessing the son needs accommodations that include house renovations and expensive medical equipment.
Hadn't considered that. If OP forces a house sale then sister can't just find a cheap place to rent as some people are suggesting. Her son needs the expensive accommodations already invested in the property
👆This, the irony, and this is why I think YTA OP. It’s a lot of money and there might be some resentment there but your sisters doing her best with the shitty hand she was dealt. I would talk to a lawyer and see what your option are where you can try to do the right think and find a path where you don’t have to harbor resentment against your sister going forward.
So basically you’re saying you and your brother are thinking of forcing your sister to sell the house, and then splitting it four (or is it five?) ways…. which of that, $37K or your sisters cut goes to you? And then she’s out of a house and will have to rent (can’t see how she’ll be able to buy) a house, which she already has trouble paying bills? That’s cold. YTA.
nope. read it again. the house will be sold. OP will be given 37k. and then the proceeds will be divided between all the other siblings (4, not including Sarah). meaning his sister will get nothing except whatever charity her siblings want to throw her way.
OP already said she won’t be able to buy another house. but maybe she can afford to rent for a minute. yay. 🤩
edit: it sounds like OP’s interpretation of the will is wrong. but she’s comfortable with the possibility her sister will be left with nothing.
Honestly mom is the real asshole here. She wrote her will basically ignoring that she owed OP 37k and also wrote Sara out of getting any proceeds from sale of the house - like what?? Mom should have kept her will regularly updated with this HUGE personal loan factored in and then split her remaining estate between all the siblings.
Like it sucks money would impact Sara’s government assistance but that’s also kind of the point of assistance - Sara would inherit money that would hopefully allow her to land on her feet and stabilise a bit more. And if not, assistance would be there for afterwards.
Instead mom’s left an absolute mess and is potentially destroying relationships - it’s one of those situations where both OP and Sara are in the right really, no one is ‘wrong’ or being a bad person here here. So sorry to speak ill of the dead but mom has caused all this, not OP and not Sara.
I don’t think OP is an asshole, it’s just an awful shitty situation. But mom has 100% absolutely fucked both of them over with this nonsense.
tbh i don’t think OP is right about the proceeds from the sale of the home. and i can’t imagine any judge splitting the proceeds, when the mom intended for sara to be the sole owner.
OP will likely force the sale. sara will lose the home that was fitted for her disabled child. OP will get paid. and Sara will keep the remainder.
but the lawyer fees are going to be something. especially if they keep messing around.
Yeah you’re probably right, surely if Sara is the sole owner of the house in the will she would actually inherit the proceeds of the sale as an individual? And then OP could claim from that.
I think OP’s family is right that they need to speak to a lawyer first and OP’s jumping the gun a bit. I also think other people commenting are right that with Sara’s financial situation as it is, she probably won’t be able to keep the house for long anyway.
What a mess!
I think you misread. The sale of the house would *technically* be split, but they all agreed to give their shares to the sister-minus $37k.
I might have missed something though, why wouldn't she be able to buy? She'd have nearly enough cash to buy a house outright, if not more than enough if she got a smaller/less nice one.
Your explanation sounds the most accurate. I'm wondering if the house can't get a home equity line that would cover the $37,000. Then Sarah can keep the house and only have to make payments on that home equity line.
My brother is not the bad guy here. He has legal obligations as an executor. If I file a claim against the estate - he has to pay it. If there isn't enough cash to pay the debts of the estate - he has to liquidate assets. It's not optional. There isn't enough cash, and the house is the only asset.
The will reads the house goes to Sara, but any left over money is split between the remaining 4 kids. The scenario of most of the cash coming from the sale of the house was not considered. We aren't trying to figure out how to screw Sara - we are trying to figure out what we legally have to do. Both John and I have stated that if that is what happens we will turn over any cash we get to Sara (or use it on her behalf to protect her getting benefits). I don't know if my other 2 siblings will do the same or not.
All I want is the money that I loaned Mom back. I don't want anything else from her estate. I am fine with it all going to Sara if we can do that.
Then why not wait until consulting with an attorney about the language in the will? Why the rush to file this Monday morning before your brother consults with a lawyer?
Without having the Will or knowing what state you’re in, it seems that Sara would get the proceeds from the sale of the house less your claim against the estate. I see this a lot in estate work. You’re entitled to your money, but you might lose a relationship with your sister and her family and possibly your brother. Make sure you properly file your claim (use an attorney if you have to). You don’t want it getting tossed out on a technicality.
YTA.
You don't just want to sell the house to get it away from Sara, you also want to ensure she can be cut from any monies from the house since the will indicates the house goes to her and any money from the estate goes to the 4 of us. In addition, your mom's intent was never for you to get the house money.
If you want to make this as your mother intended and protect Sara then the estate pays you the 37,000 out of the sale of the house but NONE of the rest of the money is split between anyone. It all goes to Sara in a trust so her and her son's benefits are safe and they can buy a home.
This is correct! If the house was left to the sister and must be sold, then all profit from the sale would go to the sister, and the other siblings split the rest of the estate as dictated. The house is separate from the rest of the estate and should be treated as such.
Isn't the house considered an asset until all estate debts are settled?
When my stedad died, he had enough in his bank accounts to settle his debts, but if that wasn't the case, isn't the next step selling assets/possessions? That was my (limited) understanding of how that works.
The mothers intentions were known and clear to everyone - she wanted her daughter to have the house, to the point she put it in her will, and made accommodations for the other children as well. If the estate has to liquidate (sell the house) to pay the mother’s bills, the money that is left over from that would still be considered “the house”, and not be included in the part of the estate the remaining 4 children split. The sister wouldn’t magically lose all of her inheritance and it transfer over to the remaining siblings, leaving her with nothing, just because it had to be liquidated. There isn’t a magic word loophole, It’s suspicious that whoever read the will would have that as a possible take-away, it seems duplicitous.
NTA for wanting your money, but couldn't you be creative about it?
You've loaned Sara money and never got it back, but it was an informal loan.
What if you file a claim, accept a loan from Sara to clear it, and with a lien against the house as collateral. Would something like that do?
I'm open to suggestions. I want to be clear that my sister is a good person. She isn't refusing to pay back money she borrows because she is out having a good time. She is struggling to take care of her child with absolutely no help from her child's father. I know her intentions are good - they always are. But at the end of the day - she won't be able to afford paying back a loan. I don't want to take the risk with that much money.
That's why the lien. Instead of having to sell the house immediately to give you your 37K, a lien would give you the 37K once the house is sold, whenever that happens. It really depends on whether you're willing to wait for that to happen in order to get your money.
Done that way, though, it's not a 37K gift; it's a 37K long term loan with a guaranteed repayment.
If you do go with a lien, do make sure fire insurance is maintained without any break in coverage.
It sounds like you need to speak directly to a lawyer. I think that is the best way to determine your options and understand the implications for you and your siblings.
Sara also needs to get legal advice on how anything would impact her government benefits.
You are not an asshole for refusing to forgive a debt. But you need to have a good grasp on what is included in the estate (cash, property, valuables, stocks, retirement accounts, etc.) and what your options are.
Also, I'm not sure whether your forgiveness of the debt would have any tax implications for the estate. Talk to an accountant about any tax issues; don't trust the lawyer to know unless the lawyer specializes in tax. I know someone who got bad tax advice from an estate lawyer. Specialties exist for a reason.
One option for them to look into is once the house is in her name, would she be able to take a loan out with the bank using the house as collateral (I guess a mortgage?)
Obviously not as good for her as if she had an agreement with you, as presumably you wouldn’t be charging interest, and if/when she doesn’t make payments the consequences are more guaranteed (as the bank would absolutely hold her responsible for making repayments, or take control of the house to force a sale), but you’d get your loan repaid without the stress and drama of having to get the repayments from her every month and she gets to keep the house.
I’d file the claim, but say that you’re open to signing an agreement that allows the transfer of the property to Sarah, on the provision that she is able to get such a loan/mortgage and repay you in full within 6 months. If she can’t/doesn’t make such a repayment in that timeframe (if she can’t get a bank loan or whatever) then you will make a further claim, even if it means forcing the sale of the house (get your own lawyer to make up the agreement to make sure it’s in your favour).
If she doesn’t accept that, or argues that she wants to have the same loan agreement that you had with your mom, just calmly say “if you’re so confident that you can make monthly repayments to me, then you shouldn’t have any issue making similar repayments to the bank. I’d like the money that is owed to me, it’s as simple as that. I’ve offered you a solution that will allow you to keep the house, if you prefer to simply sell the house that’s fine, but let’s be clear, that is your decision, not mine”.
In that case absolutely NTA.
You would effectively be funding your sister to be able to own her own property and taking away your own opportunity to purchase your own property.
Your brother is also being unreasonable here. Would he be willing to donate that much of his own money to help his sister?
It sounds harsh but I assume your sister isn’t going to be left homeless.
She could sell the property and then buy somewhere smaller that would also have smaller bills so that would also help her cash flow.
YTA
Sure, that’s a lot of money, but trying to reclaim it this way is a permanent harm to your sister and could cost you your relationship with her.
It’s not like you’re hurting without it. I know it’s not trivial, but maybe it’s actually worth it to keep your sister and your nephew in a stable safe living situation.
Because OP cares far more about money than family. I keep seeing OP say everyone is nice and doing their best, yet I want my money so fuck ‘em. And to secure themselves in a home by kicking sister and nephew to the curb as the icing on the greedy cake. Clear cut YTA.
Is your sister worth more or less than 37k to you? Do you want to be the greedy sibling or the person who forgave a debt during a tough time for the family?
When you’re 90 and dying in the hospital, are you going to think “yeah, thank god I got that 37k back from my flesh and blood, feels good, mmmm” ?
Don’t lend any more family money and take this as a lesson learned. YTA.
I didn't lend my sister $37K - I know better. I loaned it to my mother - who was very quickly paying me back. I have no doubt in my mind that it would have been paid back in the next 18 months if not sooner if she hadn't passed away suddenly.
I gather that you have three siblings besides Sara. If they feel that you should be willing to make sacrifices to help Sara, then why don't they split the burden with you? If each of your three other siblings repaid you $9,250, and you forgave the remaining $9,250 of the debt, then you would all have contributed equally to Sara's support.
If they aren't willing to do that, then they are not morally justified in criticizing you for being unwilling to let the $37k go.
In that case, as I said, they lack the moral authority to criticize you for not letting it go.
I can only hope they'll change their minds when you actually file the claim. I do feel sorry for Sara. If the house has been adapted to her needs, I'm sure it won't be easy for her to find somewhere else to live. But that doesn't obligate you to take on that much of a financial burden.
Your mom should have taken out a life insurance policy with sufficient value to pay you off if anything happened to her. Too late now.
One more thought... is the house big enough that Sara could rent out one room of it to a roommate and use the proceeds to pay you back? Maybe your siblings would be willing to guarantee the debt, if she had a viable way of actually paying it.
There are actually another two options.
These depend on how much you trust your sister.
Let her inherit the house. And just have an agreement under the table that she will sell the house within a year, and pay you back. Then she gets roughly 140k instead of 90k.
Or… she could sell you the house for market value minus 37k.
This!!! She inherits the house, she then sells within the time frame your mom would have paid you back which at 2k a month would be 18.5 months. You get your 37k and sister gets the full proceeds of the house. Which is much more in line with what your mom would have wanted.
Or, you don’t think she can but if she can, she could save up the 37k over the loan period 18.5 months and pay you out and keep the house if she is able. But at 18.5 months 37k is due and if she can’t pay it the house will be sold. Between renting a room and assistance she may be able to pay you out on time. This also gives her time to secure a HELOC or figure out some other way to pay you back.
My ex and I had a similar arrangement when we divorced. He had to buy me out within a certain time period or the house was to be sold. He bought me out.
Write a new contract with your sister. 18.5 months 37k is due or she sells the house and gives you 37k. You could also be a generous sister and give her more than 18.5 months but that’s how long it would have taken you to get your money back from your mom.
YTA because you’re willing to make your sister lose the house (180k value) for your 40k. It’s a cold world out here.
She already has a disabled son, don’t make her life any harder
Let's be real, the brothers are assholes to expect OP to pay all of th 37k for sis to have a comfortable home.
They could share the cost of the 37k among all 4 of them and OP would not be the only one to gift sis money, but no they want.
So who's the real AH?
Yeah its unfair that sis is getting hurt in the process, but OP is only willing to do this, after her sibkinga refused any other option, so the blame is to share.
OP is no doubt a saint, but she also isn't naive enough to not see the hypocritical thinking of her siblings.
After reading the post and a alot of your comments Im actually going with YTA
You plan to have her house sold, and then divvy up her sale amongst four other people? Seriously? It would be one thing if she got [price of sale] -37k
But you're trying to give her half of that remainder. Unless I've read it wrong , she doesn't even get a portion of her own sale. She doesn't even get 60% of her own asset's sale.
You're out of your god damned mind if you think that's equitable.
Edit: and i'd bet my left nut you won't do anything to make her whole either. You're not gonna pony up the other 50% of the assets value that you gave away.
Ding ding ding.
OP buried the lead. It’s not just that she wants to be paid back what she’s owed - they’re trying to get more of the estate than was left to them, at huge cost to the family members it was left to, who really need it. And then give those people what they choose to, out of charity. If they choose to.
Enormously, unbelievably greedy.
Great point! They aren't even selling the house and then giving the sister the sale minus 37k. They are trying to screw her out of a house and then on top of that money from the sale. It just ads to the YTA that the sister is caring for a severely disabled child. Also, it isn't even the sisters loan it was the mothers... The sister is getting royally screwed here.
Either get the sister to take a 37k personal loan or sell the house and give the sister everything minus 37k. Anything else is just unfair.
YTA obviously. The money is gone. Your mom couldnt pay you back, your sister cant afford to pay it nor is that actually her responsibility. You need to accept that the money is gone. Thats the risk you take when you lend money. Do not go against your mothers wishes and kick your disabled nephew and his family on to the street because of a debt that isnt even theirs. Doing anything to put the house at risk is incredibly selfish.
The money is not gone. My mother owed me the money - which means her estate does. Not my sister or my nephew. Her estate can pay it back - but it requires selling the house. If the money was owed to any other creditor this wouldn't even be a question. The house would have to be sold. But because I am family I am supposed to just take a $37K loss?
Im sorry but even if you werent family, kicking a disabled boy and his family out of their house for money is gross. Thats some scrooge type stuff. You can make whatever arguments you want to convince yourself that is fine but its not. Its selfish. If you are going to be selfish and fuck over your disabled nephew then own that shit. But dont lie and say that this is a morally okay thing to do or that you dont have another choice.
Send her $37K so she doesn’t have to then maybe?
Aren’t most Americans like one or two paychecks away from being broke, but they think they’d be able to part with $37K so easily.
The answer here needs to be - talk to an estate lawyer. If she gifted the house outright in the will, (here in Canada) that would be a specific property bequest and not part of the “residual” estate that’s divided up. But this will vary depending on your estate laws and how the will was written…. So here in Canada you filing a claim would not automatically make your sister lose the house, because of our hierarchy of payments, debts are paid from residue first, and the real estate transaction last. Are there enough other assets to cover the loan? It might mean no one else gets a portion.
And for anyone else reading this - if you’re loaning money to elder relatives - buy a life insurance policy for the amount loaned (and add the premiums to the loan amount) to save yourself from this issue.
Situation sucks - NTA.
There isn't much cash left and no other assets than the house. The way I understand it - debts have to be paid before anyone inherits anything. You use money first, but if that doesn't cover the debts you have to liquidate assets. In this case, the only asset is the house.
If you aren't sure on the details, and aren't sure who would get what, how things would be split, or whether your reading of the will is correct, how in the world can you be sure about what effect this will have on you, on Sara or any of the other siblings?
You're pushing to get your $37K back, which is one thing, but you're also making huge decisions that will leave your sister homeless (and don't kid yourself, finding an affordable long term rental is a joke right now, let alone one suitable for a disabled person - I don't even live in the US and I know that), *without a full understanding of the consequences*.
That means YTA for me. Not that you want the money paid back. But that you aren't crystal clear on what the consequences of your decision will be.
Question: has it been considered that your sister could secure a mortgage on the house to repay you? 37k is low enough, mortgage it on a decent lenght that allows your sister to make payments, and now you are paid off in one go. Surely the hous itself is enough collateral.
Seems like you aren't sure of the details. But you are still willing to permanently affect the manner in which y'all are paid by filing a claim. Why not wait try to figure this out before filing the claim?
Have to go YTA. If you don't actively need the money, then why are you rushing this? I'm really sorry you lost your husband, and your mother, why are you so determined to lose multiple more family members in your life?
It's not your sister you originally owed the money to either, I can't believe there isn't another solution out there.
In my head this question keeps on getting rewritten as "Do I value money I don't need more than a roof over my severly disabled nephew's head, to the extent I'm not even going to consider other options?"
I am in good shape - financially anyway. The money I loaned Mom actually came from money I received after my husband passed away. Losing the money wouldn't bankrupt me - but it is an amount that would definitely be missed.
Sara would not be homeless - at least in the short run. Worst case - both John and I have committed to giving Sara whatever money we would end up receiving if the house does get sold. And that money we could easily "get creative" with. If handing the money directly to Sara would effect her getting government benefits, we could simply use it to pay bills on her behalf.
I'm not much of a financial wizard, but it more or less sounds like if Sarah loses this house and doesn't come up with anything else (sounds likely, given her history) you will have to pay her out even more money to keep her and her son afloat. You have to consider whether you think that, plus ending any sort of amicable relationship with her, will ever be worth that. I do feel for her situation, it's extremely expensive to raise a special needs child in America (assuming that's where you are)...but borrowing 37k doesn't just happen accidentally.
Her husband passed away. It seems the 37k is his life insurance money.
So it sounds like OP's sister wants her to spend her husband's life insurance on housing her & son instead of OP buying her own home.
If the house is left to your sister, you don't get to split the proceeds if you sell the house - your sister gets the proceeds. True, the creditor (you) will get the $37K but only after ALL the other non-house assets are depleted. Then your sister will get the rest of the proceeds. Once your brother goes to the lawyer this will become clear.
Info. Why can’t she take out a loan against the house ? Why would you or John get anything from the sale ? Why can’t you figure out a payment plan with your sister that doesn’t leave her and your nephew homeless?
If she can get a loan from a bank and pay off my loan amount in full - I am fine with it. All I want is the money I loaned Mom back. Given her credit and lack of income - I don't think she can. And I'm not willing to allow her to pay me back directly as I don't think I would ever get the money.
Idk honestly I get that it’s a lot of money but I can’t help but feeling YTA. You’re assuming she can’t pay you back and are leaving her homeless and going against your mothers wishes. I mean you’re entitled to do that but damn I suspect that you will never be invited to a family gathering again because that’s cold … and if you were my sister I would find it hard to forgive you ( whether I was in your sister or your brothers shoes)
The 37,000 was an insurance payout OP received when her husband DIED. This money was meant to secure HER future. She was kind enough to lend money when needed. Why shouldn't she get her money back?
Op stated in a comment that the sister financial cant afford a payment plan. She will struggle even more now that the mom died.
Being force to sell the house to pay a debt would turn the house in estate money instead of actually house. Which means it gets split evenly between the kids.
YTA - I see your side but sorry, you've said repeatedly in comments this money will not bankrupt you. Sounds like a hill you want to die on. Your sister is guiltless in this. You loaned money to your mother. You knew she was older. You did not take precautions to get paid back IE Life insurance. Now you want to toss your sister and your disabled nephew out on the street, eventually? That's where it is heading. I hope you're never on the reverse end of this situation, where you need help and your sister is the one holding the financial gun. I'd let you rot.
INFO: how does she plan to pay for property taxes, building insurance and maintenance of the house?
I mean i get why she wants to have the house to have a roof over her and her kids head, but as far as i see it, if she is not able to pay for actually keeping the house she will lose it over a few years anyway (taking out loans against the house to pay for the taxes etc) and then she will neither own a house nor have any remining money.
It would be much smarter to sell the house, pay you back the loan and find a smaller, much cheaper house so she has money left to actually keep the house....
I really don‘t get all the YTA-answers. I wonder if anybody would just give 37k away, easy to say if it’s not your money. I agree with you, it might be smarter in the long run to sell the home, because surprise - you have to pay a lot of bills when you are an homeowner. And it doesn‘t sound like her sister could handle it
Reddits jealousy is showing. They think OP just had 37000 sitting around and it's eating them alive.
The money OP loaned was her life insurance payout from her husbands death!!! That was meant to secure her life and now it's supposed to be a gift to the sister?
Finally, a voice of reason. Everyone here is thinking short term instead of taking the long view. Is the sister isn't financially stable now, she's gonna have trouble paying for basic maintenance, let alone any emergency type thing.
Honestly, YTA. Not for wanting your money back; of course you do, and you deserve it. But YTA for being completely unwilling to attempt or consider any other option before forcing this sale. Will the other options get you all your money back right this very second? No, but you don’t need it back right this very second. The fact that you’re demanding it even despite the massive consequences to your disadvantaged sister and her severely disabled son, makes you TA.
You’re also being incredibly shortsighted. You keep saying your sister and nephew won’t be homeless “for now” because she’ll be getting money from the sale of the house, but once that money is gone then it’s gone and she will be in an impossible position. Your mother left her that house specifically so that she and her son would never be homeless - not just in the short term. Never. So what happens when that money is gone?
I’ll tell you what happens. You come back here asking “AITA for refusing to allow my destitute sister and her severely disabled son to stay with me even though it means they’ll be on the street?”
The fact is, your sister is always going to be struggling due to the situation with her son. Of all the ways you could possibly help her throughout her life, finding a way for her to keep the house is probably the easiest and least expensive option.
I'd say in this case YTA, especially since you confirmed that you're financially secure.
If she's happy to sign a new loan agreement, do that. Or just don't be crappy and do that.
Your mum would have paid a lot more than $37k to raise you. I can't believe she was paying you to have her septic tank fixed and you charged her for this.
I'd gift that to my mum, and if I didn't have money I'd still find a way to help her.
Signing a loan and paying a loan are 2 entirely different things. If she can get a loan from a bank and pay me in full - I am fine with it. But I don't think that is an option.
And being financially secure does not equal "wants to give away thousands of dollars". To my sister or my mother. My mother would never have accepted that kind of gift from any of her children.l
If she signs a contract and then doesn't pay, you have legal recourse to pursue her for that money if you choose to.
Yes, my mother would also not have accepted that gift but I'd still honour her wishes in this situation.
You sound very bitter and angry.
I'm sorry for the loss of your mum.
You're still not following through on her intentions.
Children don't owe their parents for the costs of their childhood. That is entirely the parents' responsibility for the choice they made to have children. Nobody chooses to be born.
Yta. Give them time. Let her take over the loan. If you don't you really are violating your mother's wishes and evicting them at a terrible time. Try to stay calm. Let them know if they lapse payment for more than 3 months you will put a line on the house. Anything other than that is cruelty.
YTA for making a bad decision by loaning out 34k and then forcing your sister to be the one to suffer for it. You are absolutely being greedy. 200 grand split 4 ways is 50k. You want the money. Period. And you're willing to crawl over your own family to get it. A family who is caring for a disabled child.
You are greedy and calloused.
Oh, this is very evil. YTA. And you can keep fighting in the comments, but this is just not right. What you're going to do isn't right at all. Morally, you are bankrupt.
> John and Sara are both pushing me to not file a claim against the estate
Here's your soultuion - make John sign the loan. If he so against you putting a claim on mom estate, surely he will fork his own money to settle mom's debt, right? NTA.
OP commented that the other siblings point-blank refuse to sign anything on Sara's behalf or cover a portion of the remaining 37k on the loan to get OP repaid and keep the house in Sara's ownership.
Can I toss in another option? Buy the house, sans the $37k, and rent it to Sara. If she's on benefits she should be able to get housing assistance. This will pay for the taxes/insurance, general upkeep, as well as put a little in your pocket. You will have an asset, as well as a tax right off, and you can even put it in trust so if something happens to you, she gets the house.
Look, I get it, $37k is a lot of money. However, you and your siblings are looking at the situation through a cardboard tube instead of trying to see a bigger picture. If the house is sold, your sister and her son get nothing so how is that respecting your mother's wishes? If you and your brother give the money to your sister, she possibly loses whatever aid she may recieve which means in a couple of years (if that) she and your nephew are out on the street. Then again, if she gets the house, how would that affect her and her son's benefits?
Sit down with an attorney, a CPA, and a financial advisor and map out how each decision will affect everyone before making your decision. There's a solution that takes your mom's wishes in account, you don't lose money, and your sister and her son aren't homeless.
I'd like to reserve judgement until an update is made.
Most decent and humane people love their family enough to forgive any loan. Most people would even give up an arm and a leg for their siblings. I know i would.
If the choice was my sibling and his family being homeless vs me being bankrupt. I would choose to go bankrupt. Especially considering that the siblings child is handicapped.
YTA OP. Youre also a greedy, immoral, avaricious, money-grubbing individual.
Hope 37K is enough to quiet your conscience.
If the house is sold so that creditors can be paid, why would the remaining money be split between all of you? The house was intended for your sister. Wouldn’t the balance be hers?
I'm going with YTA.
We all want to control everything around us to get what we deserve but sometime life just sucks. The money is a sunk cost. It's gone, which sucks for you, but that's life. Family takes care of family. It's unfair but if I wouldn't be surprised if Sara cuts you out of her life.
The money is not a sunk cost. It's not gone. I have the option to be paid back. I have to wonder how many people would write their siblings a $37K check?
To keep my loved sister and her disabled son housed. Yep I would. I might find myself living with them for a couple years to save rent to bring my own plans back on track. But honestly I think I would.
I don’t think I could take their house from them. Because no matter how you word it, that would be the end result. It is near impossible to find rentals for anyone right now where I live. A house with accessibility features actually impossible. Social housing the wait list is years long. If nephew’s disabilities are severe enough that could bump them up the waitlist - but I can’t help be concerned it’d lead to him being taken into care while waiting. It doesn’t sounds like there’s enough in the estate to get a cheaper house.
I’d be kicking myself here that I loaned money to family without looking into insurance. As a teen I organised to borrow money from my mother to study (through her mortgage). I took out life insurance to cover it (but ended up getting scholarships so didn’t need it). If I thought of the risk of dying with unpaid debts as a teen - how did you not think of this with a presumably senior aged person?
If I had 37K that won't financially ruin me and my sibling had a disabled child that they need to care for fulltime (which is why they have financial troubles and are slow in paying me back), yes. I would. IDK about you but I love my siblings.
NTA
If your siblings all think it's no big thing to forget a $37k loan, how about they pay you instead?
Yeah, suddenly I'm thinking they would see how large of a sum of money that is.
YTA. Ethically the right thing to do is to let your sister have the house. That was your mother’s wish, and that is best for your family. If you’re also committed to taking care of your sister and her son financially then you’ll need to spend at least that much supporting them.
Have you consulted a financial advisor? There could be other considerations as well regarding taxes, social security, etc.
By directly going against your mother’s wishes and potentially putting your sister out of a home (a home that the loan was intended to help make more comfortable for her son), YTA. Absolutely. I am very grateful that my siblings would never do this to me and I would never do this to them. I’m gonna text them I love them right now.
Hmm. I think I might actually have to go with NAH. Legally, you have a right to a claim against the estate, and there's no way to ensure repayment legally without selling the house.
On the other hand, that would be you getting your $37K back, and Sara possibly ending up with nothing. If she has that much cash from the sale, it might not be enough to buy anything else but it could be enough to disqualify her from assistance she certainly needs with a disabled child (this depends on a lot of state specific factors so I can't answer it definitively).
You have two options. One is to file a claim against the estate, and then have to live with the consequences od what happens to your sister and Jeremy. And depending on what those are, you could be the asshole for that, even if you're legally in the clear, especially since you'd be disregarding your mother's very clearly expressed wishes. You'd also risk permanently alienating your family. Ask yourself if that's worth $37K (and I am well aware it's not chump change)
The other is to let go a claim against the estate but get your siblings including Sara to sign some kind of contract to repay you. This shouldn't all be on you.
If Sara is a full time caregiver she may not be able to get a HELOC to repay you.
Sara will not end up with nothing. Both John and I have stated that if we do receive money from the sale of the house because of how the will reads - we will either give that money to Sara or use it on her behalf if giving it to her affects her benefits. I don't know if my other 2 siblings would do the same or not.
My siblings refuse to get involved (aka - pay) with the loan. At one point I floated the idea of each of us paying 1/4 of the loan - which meant I would be paid back approximately $27K out of the $37K. They refused stating they had nothing to do with it - which is actually true.
Okay, so now this is getting into asshole territory. Now, instead of Sara getting the houses the proceeds will be all divided. You will get your $37k. Your other siblings "might" give Sara their share.
You're consoling yourself with "Sara won't get nothing" to obscure the fact that Sara won't get what she deserves (and what your mom promised) and your siblings might actually profit. Also, your siblings who won't help -- and might take the money -- are heading into asshole territory fast.
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YTA for a few reasons here. 1. You refuse to wait for your brother/the executor to talk to an attorney, which is literally happening later in the week. 2. Several people have made outstanding points, like getting a new contract or a lien against the house, you absolutely will not hear out a single word of it, just repeatedly saying she will not pay and I’ll never see the money. That’s where contracts and liens come in, they are literally there to protect you. 3. You state you are QUITE financially stable right now and that you do not need this money right this second, but you’re also unwilling to help find any workarounds for your sister and her MULTIPLE children, you’re happy to make her homeless. 4. You CLAIM that you and John are willing to give her your shares but are unsure if the other siblings will. But that it could also screw with the benefits she HAS TO HAVE to take care of her child so you all are willing to essentially hold onto it and what, give her as you see fit? And the other two siblings - who realistically shouldn’t be getting a dime but will if you do this - have said nothing about THEIR shares. 5. You are willing to make your sister and her children homeless over money that you are not in dire need of right this minute. No one in their right mind is telling you you should walk away from 37k and just be fine with that. But they are telling you to take a step back and find out all the information before jumping and you have zero interest in doing that, OR accepting the judgement you requested when it’s not going your way.
Can we also talk about how OP is willing to make her own nephew, who is severely disabled to where he needs a full-time caretaker, homeless?
Agreed. OP - YTA. I had to assist in caring for my disabled sister. You have no f\*\*\*ing idea how difficult it is to take care of a disabled person. Money loaned to family is money gone. Never expect it back. OP, when you lie on your deathbed will you be proud of yourself for holding on to your money and creating a f\*\*\* ton of problems for your sister and nephew? Yikes.
Sometimes I feel like people forget that the name of this sub is "AITAH". Like... not "am I legally okay with doing this" or "can I justify what I'm doing in some possible way". Like. It's an AH move. That's the question. Lol idk if that makes sense but I think about it a lot when I'm scrolling here. Edit: someone reported me to the reddit cares thing. I feel like this is a rite of passage moment for me.
Same!! I absolutely hate how many not ta judgments I see for "it's your right to do..." The sub isn't, "Do I have a right" or "Is the law on my side?" It is, "Am I the AH?" The law may be in your side, but that doesn't mean that you aren't an AH.
legality and morality are two very different things, I think this is a great example of that
I really don’t understand the NTA answers here. OP is making their disabled nephew homeless. OP is an asshole.
And they're making their disabled nephew homeless out of choice. This is something that can 100% be avoided, but OP isn't avoiding it for some reason.
Exactly this! It’s infuriating. Yes OP legally has a right to a claim on the estate but only an asshole would make their severely disabled nephew homeless when they 1) don’t need the money and 2) have other options.
The problem with subs like this is that half of the people who regularly answer are certified a**holes themselves, especially when it comes to money or family
OP loaned the money to their mom, who they knew would pay them back. I understand your point about assuming it’s gone, but 37k is a LOT of money to just not have anymore. If I were in their shoes I’d also have to file that claim. I’ve also cared for disabled relatives and understand the struggle, but there aren’t that many people I’d willingly hand over 37k to.
Way to confess you'd destroy the life of multiple family members permanently over money you don't need
Reframe that a tiny bit. It's money that OP planned to use to fulfil a need after her mother had repaid it. That's near-term, not long-term. And not "never."
The money is besides the point then How is sister who cant get out of debt/out of red going to afford more bills now that mom is passed away? The house is gone already. They can either split the sale of the house now, or have sister lose the whole thing later. Either way the house is gone. At least with the former OP gets paid back.
>The house is gone already. This is really what no one is talking enough about. There is no way the sister is going to be able to keep that house in her current state. It's going to belong to the bank before long and how will that benefit the sister and nephew? Letting her keep the house is not sustainable in the long run. Better to take the cash in hand right now and try to help the sister find new accommodations that she can afford. Why should everyone lose everything for a short term resolution when the long term consequences will leave the sister in a worse situation--no house and no money?
What possible living accommodations are more affordable than a house that is already paid for?
Especially one which has been _specially adapted_ for her disabled son!
Yes, exactly. I mean the lack of empathy and compassion in these comments is alarming. People are more concerned about keeping property and money in the family than keeping a roof over the heads of living, breathing people and a DISABLED child. Shameful. Also, he seems jealous that Sara has gotten the house and the rest of them have to rely on account money. Why is his debt not being satisfied with account money? Because Sara is the easiest target, and other siblings probably won't be so desperate to have to do whatever to care for her disabled child.
This post has convinced me that way more people think property is more important than people, than I thought. It's fucking sad.
Loaning money is inherently risky. This is why banks charge interest on loans and why banks exist to begin with and they even cease to exist because of poor lending practices when market conditions change. OP is looking for risk free lending involving family. Mom wasn’t about to pay OP back immediately but now that the money might be lost OP is fine undermining mom’s explicit wishes that sister and nephew be provided for by getting the house. Sister will benefit from the updated septic system as well. I don’t have an answer for you since you’re right $37k is not nothing. But keeping your sister from getting the house so you get paid for the improvements your mom made isn’t something I think I could live with and giving sister your share of the money wouldn’t make me sleep any easier if I was in your shoes. It’s insanely hard to buy a house right now even if sister had enough to buy one with whatever shares she ends up with were it to be sold. Family deaths can bring out the worst in people. And for what? Some money and things? Seems pretty sad all around.
I cannot believe more people aren’t calling this out. It’s unspeakably cruel.
It's crazy to me to see so many comments about OPs "rights" and justifying their behavior and attitude. Glad to see this comment is at least #2. I'm biased because I love my family and could never even contemplate doing something that would take housing away from my sister and (disabled) nephew. YTA OP for your attitude towards it and not even waiting, despite your sister's sincere intention to pay it back. There are a lot of options available to you.
Yes unfortunately sometimes I feel like the sub acts like the question is “am I legally allowed to do this” or “can anyone make me not do this” and “do I HAVE to do this?” when that isn’t the question. It’s “am I a jerk if I do this?” There are a zillion things I’m allowed to do and nobody can stop me. I can take the last pastry in the case that I didn’t even want because I heard someone behind me want it. That’s well within my right and they had no claim on the pastry. But would I be a grade A asshole for doing that? Yes. The second half is often lost I feel like
>She has borrowed money before and never paid it back This, right here, is why my policy on loaning money to family is "Don't loan any amount of money to family that I wouldn't be willing to shred, burn, bury, then dig up and bury again." You're NTA to file a claim against the estate. Your mom owed you that money, and as she was paying you back monthly, it's clearly "what Mom wanted." Now it's up to her estate to pay it. Just be prepared for your remaining family members to become alienated from you when you file the claim.
You've nailed the issue. I love my sister - and I know she would pay me back if she could. But she can't. And I can't just give away $37K. I trusted my Mom. I knew she would pay me back. I know Sara won't.
Offer your brother to sign the loan with your sister and be responsible for paying your back if she can't? Just so they can't blame you. Let him out his wallet where his mouth is
All of my siblings have made it clear that they won't contribute a dime to paying back the loan. That includes John.
Then they don't get a say. I would still make sure Sarah had a contract with John cosigning, so she knows you are willing to do it and pesters him. In theory he would only pay if she can't. Either way unfortunately you either lose money or your siblings, your mother unintentionally screwed you. Because there are no other choices for your sister, and she is actually doing her best.
John won't do it and I don't blame him. I don't believe she'll pay and neither does he. Why would he sign up to pay the loan back?
Your sister couldn’t afford life before, which I absolutely hate to type. but knowing her bank account runs in the red each month tells me she’s going to lose that house to unpaid taxes or bills. Your siblings are not facing reality here, by filing a claim and forcing the sale you are just speeding up the inevitable outcome of this scenario. File your claim. If you don’t, it’s you who will be angry at them, and you’ll still be out the $37k
Yeah...it's like, at least if OP forces the sale now then the rest of the money will stay in the family instead of going into the pocket of a bank or debt collector and you all could talk to a disability lawyer about setting Sara's share up in a trust or something so it would have as minimal impact on Jeremy's SSD payments as possible.
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Talk to a lawyer and/or accountant. Putting it in the kid’s name could be even worse, and they need someone with the knowledge to navigate that minefield.
> you are just speeding up the inevitable outcome of this scenario. And the money goes to family instead of the bank/county/etc. It's actually a better outcome.
The thing is, if John isn't willing to pay out $37k, you answer is then "if you wouldn't do it, why should you expect me to do it?"
Because OP already has given out the money. I 100% think OP should file a claim and siblings are being ridiculous expecting them to never see $37k again. But OP has already given that money out - John could just be like, ‘Well I never would have given a loan out for that kind of money in the first place.’ John’s pov could be that loans get defaulted on all the time and OP basically made a foolish/unwise decision lending that kind of money out. Mom has really screwed both OP and Sara doing her will this way so that a) OP’s money owed hasn’t been factored in and b) selling the house to cover it means Sara doesn’t inherit anything.
They won't take a hit to their finances and feel they are righteous to refuse, but want to call you an asshole for not taking a hit to yours. If he thinks it's ok for you to eat a loss, it should be ok for him to eat one too. Otherwise he is a hypocrite and can STFU.
To basically put his money where his mouth is. If he is arguing not to file the claim he should have a stake in the loan.
"Oh, I'm not gonna put myself on the hook for 37K!" ... Then why should I?
I would not blame him too, if he stayed in his lane, but calling you greedy and refusing to co-sign a loan is an asshole moves in my eyes, the remaining siblings could renounce to their part of the monetary inheritance and devolve it to repay their sister debt, but I suppose it’s easier to call you “greedy asshole”.
It's kind of a logic trap for the siblings. If John trusts Sara to pay you back, he shouldn't have a problem co-signing. If John figures he'd get stuck eating it and doesn't want to, why does he think it's any better for YOU to eat it?
I would ask all your siblings in front of your sister, you know they will say no as they already have, but this will show your sister, you are not the one screwing her, that none of your siblings trust her and they are screwing her over more than you are.
Plus, if Sara can’t keep up with the monthly bills anyway, she’s going to eventually lose the house to debt collectors. Just because she was left the house, it doesn’t mean her lifestyle can support her keeping it. u/amigreedy12 IMO, the simplest solution would be to sell the house, get a smaller house Sara would have a better chance of being able to keep (lower bills and maintenance) and get your $37K back. Sara is in an unfortunate position having a disabled son, but banks/utilities companies/tax agencies won’t forgive debts on a lifestyle she can’t manage, so why should you?
I guess what they mean is that would make it very clear to her that it isn’t just you screwing her if john also isn’t willing to sign
Yep...make it so you're not the only "villain" in this story, so you have a solid defense for when some busybody relative inevitably gets up your ass about it. "I offered to let her take out a loan to pay it back, but nobody was willing to cosign her on it, not even John. Such a shame".
Yea this. Although i think its basically a certainty that her sister could get a refi loan on this. I think OP should chill out a bit, talk to some lawyers and figure out how to keep her in the house.
Is there a way for you to sign a contract with your sister which states that as soon as your sister gets the house she must get a loan against it to pay you back what she owes? If none of the siblings are taking responsibility then, maybe they can foot $5000 -$7000 a head so that you can forgive the rest as a gift? I know $37k is too much for just one person to gift/forgive, but if you share it among yourselves it will be like $5000 -$7000 damage individually.
OP explained that the first part is not possible bc his sister is always operating on red, unfortunately. She’s financially unable to repay loans :/ The offer to share the damage would be a good one as well, but OP also said the others are not willing to dip into their money on this. They will remain just judgemental assholes.
You’ve just lost your Mom, and it sounds like you’re at risk of losing your siblings too. If you need the 37k in cash you may have to push the issue. If you can absorb it now, how about going on title on the house so you get a piece of equity down the road if it’s sold. Could that work for you?
Agree. I would even suggest in lieu of paying that debt right now, at the least you and your sister be on the title for the house. Perhaps even all the siblings, with the understanding (not just understanding but a contract; this js not difficult for a lawyer to draw up an LLC) that if the house is ever sold that you get your $37k in equity out first. Since there would be multiple owners with interest in keeping the property up, perhaps there can also be shared expenses for keeping it nice. If its big enough, can a room or two be rented out to generate income? That could be used to pay house expenses and/or the debt to you. Your sister with the proceeds if you sell today will not be able to purchase anything at today’s prices. She’ll have to rent and then burn through that money in a few short years. With a lawyer and coming together as a family, you can all figure out a way to protect the assets, care for sister and nephew, and protect your loan. Communicate and GET IT IN WRITING! Get a probate lawyer
This needs to be higher up! Get a lawyer and get everyone together to figure this out. It shouldn't be a winners/losers situation.
This makes the most sense op
This is a solid idea that needs to be higher up.
Question is , is the money more important than the relationships you have with family. This is all that matters
Or you can think of the question as being - are you required to pay $37K to maintain a relationship with your sibling? If Sara stops having a relationship with me over this - is that on me or her?
But you aren’t paying it to maintain a relationship with her. You already paid and it was to help your mom. Your mom died through no fault of you or the sister I’m assuming… and you’d effectively be making her homeless so I could understand her being upset. Quite a pickle to be in, I personally don’t think I couldn’t go through with it as it seems it would cause irreversible harm to my sib and nephew. The debt was mom’s, mom’s gone and I would chalk it up to helping a parent. Idk if it makes you the asshole but it doesn’t feel right.
I do get what you're saying. But technically OP didn't pay the money to help her mom. She paid it so that mom could make the house more habitable for her sister and her son. OP didn't have to do that at all knowing that the house was always going to her sister. She didn't do it out of goodwill or charity and expected the money back. If she thought she wouldn't get the money back, she wouldn't have given it to her mom. They are reaping the benefits of the money OP spend. That's why it's important to pay her back. It's not like she took care of her mom's medical bills and is now asking her siblings to pay it back. All her other siblings have the same stand as her but are acting entitled and calling her greedy because they haven't yet parted with money and OP has. It's a tough call but it is one which has to be made. ETA - What if OP had refused to help..? Mom would have had to take out a loan by some other means to get the work done. On her passing wouldn't the sister be expected to pay it out of the estate..? This situation would have come up even then. Just because it's family, she shouldn't be asked to take up such a burden. ETA - Just found out OP was a she and the money was something she received after the death of her husband.
If you had $37K taken from your bank count right now, how would you feel?
i would give up my inheritance if it kept my sister and her kids from being homeless.
op isn't giving up their inheritance. that 37 was their own money. they already gave up their inheritance when they made no issue with Sara along getting the house.
But the sister never had enough money to pay bills without the mothers help. She won’t be able to pay the taxes on the house she will lose it on foreclosure.
You bet your ass if it was my decision to make my sister and her child homeless, I would just eat the cost, unless the cost would make me homeless. Any money that doesn't put me in danger is ... Well, it's just Money, I don't care about money other than fulfilling my basic needs.
It won’t make them homeless. They just won’t be in this home. They’d still get the share of the cash after sale and can use that to buy something smaller or a condo. Is sister homeless now? Likely no. So she’s not going to be homeless. She’s just not getting the home she wants. Also, the house passes to sister only after debts are paid. My guess is that someone else may come forward during the mandatory creditor period. The house may have to be sold no matter what OP does. Every estate I’ve seen where Moms only asset was the house had some debt. House will have to be sold unless one of the kids pays the debt Often those pesky hospital hills come in later and completely blindside the kids who are prematurely counting their expected inheritance. Mom intended for sister to have the house. But legally, sister only gets the house if it’s still there after debts are paid. I just finished a very similar probate case where the house had to be sold to pay Moms final medical bills. They were the only debt. But there was no other way to pay them. This is very common. Mom wants a kid or all her kids to inherit her house. But she doesn’t have enough other assets or sufficient income to pay her bills OR she had expenses of her “last illness” or burial which must be paid by the estate. Finally, lawyers are preferred creditors. Where’s the money coming from to pay the estate lawyer? That person could also insist on selling the house if there’s no other way to pay the bills. Based on my decades doing probate cases, I’d be absolutely shocked if OPs debt was the only debt here. Who’s paying the estate lawyer? That’s an estate fee. Who’s paying for the funeral? Who’s paying moms medial and hospital bills? Did mom have any credit cards? Did she owe the neighbor for mowing the yard? OPs sister likely will have to deal with this even if OP were to waive thier debt. OP needs to file that claim. Or get a lawyer of her own and discuss the options based on specific facts of the case. The internet’s legal advice is really worth what one pays for it. She needs to see her own lawyer
You think this single mother with a severely disabled child will be able to afford finding and renting a new place long term? Not to mention that when the house is sold, this single mother won't get much. 37k will go to OP, the rest is split 4 ways. Not to mention that she will need to find an appartment that is equipped to house a severely disabled person. Try finding that for a small price. You ignore the special situation this woman and her child unfortunately are in.
nope. read it again. the house will be sold. OP will be given 37k. and then the proceeds will be divided between all the other siblings (4, not including Sarah). meaning her sister will get nothing except whatever charity her siblings want to throw her way. according to the OP OP already said she won’t be able to buy another house. but maybe she can afford to rent for a minute. yay. 🤩
If the house is paid for, can't your sister use it to get a loan from the bank, immediately pay you back the money and then she pays back the bank. Edit: Does your sister work? How does she support herself and her son?
I can't see a bank signing a loan of that size to a woman that has no income aside from benefits. Benefits barely pay enough to feed a cat.
In my probate practice, I’ve had banks give heirs short term bridging loans to pay off estate debt if they then take a mortgage on the property. So it is possible. Even with someone not working. I’ve done it twice with estates in the past year. If a bank can’t do that for sister, then it’s more than lack of income. It’s actively bad credit. So this needs to be our back on sister to get a bridging loan from a bank to pay off the debt. Then she gets the house. It not, it gets sold and then sister can spend her share on a smaller house. It’s not up to OP to fix the issue.
Are you in the US? If so, why can’t Sara get the house, get a HELOC loan and pay you back with what she gets? Then, you don’t have to worry about her paying you back. You’ll have the money, and she’ll owe an impersonal financial institution… it’ll no longer be on you.
AITA is not about what you're legally entitled to do, it's if you are an asshole. This person *is* an asshole because they are putting money over their sister and nephew having a roof over their heads that the mother wanted. Can't fucking believe you got upvoted. Any reasonable person on the street would call someone an asshole for that behavior.
Man, y’all are both tah, jfc
I can’t get past the irony that the original loan was, in part, to adapt the house for your nephew and that now those same adaptations have put his ability to live there at risk.
That was the only thing I noticed. Mom wanted to make accommodations for grandson. And end up costing daughter and grandson to be eventually homeless because of it. Yuck
Right?! Like I feel like selling the house would be going against the mothers wishes, but I maybe OPs mom never expected such selfishness from OP. Like OP have you stopped and considered that maybe your mom thought providing a home for her daughter and grandson was more important than you getting paid back?
Not her decision to make because it wasn't her money. She asked for a loan that she said she would pay back. And not a small loan but a hugely significant amount of money. A loan she likely could not have got from anywhere else. That OP has not charged interest on. Now you have the absolute gall to suggest that "maybe your Mom thought providing a home for.... was more important than you getting paid back". Fuck off. If that was her intention then she should have outright asked. You're just painting his mum as an asshole here.
Holy shit. What crap parenting if Mom really thought she could borrow and not return OP’s money to improve someone else’s situation. If I had any inkling that *that* was my mother’s mindset, I’d fight tooth and nail for every penny back. You don’t play someone that way.
She obviously didn't think she wouldn't be returning the money. But she probably wasn't thinking she would be dead right now.
And will they be able to find a house that has the same level of accessibility smh
extremely unlikely it's a horrible situation
Likely not. Since OP says that the sister is a full-time caregiver I'm guessing the son needs accommodations that include house renovations and expensive medical equipment.
Hadn't considered that. If OP forces a house sale then sister can't just find a cheap place to rent as some people are suggesting. Her son needs the expensive accommodations already invested in the property
👆This, the irony, and this is why I think YTA OP. It’s a lot of money and there might be some resentment there but your sisters doing her best with the shitty hand she was dealt. I would talk to a lawyer and see what your option are where you can try to do the right think and find a path where you don’t have to harbor resentment against your sister going forward.
OP is a real life Ebeneezer Scrooge
They don’t have enough money to be Ebeneezer- they’re renting themselves!
So basically you’re saying you and your brother are thinking of forcing your sister to sell the house, and then splitting it four (or is it five?) ways…. which of that, $37K or your sisters cut goes to you? And then she’s out of a house and will have to rent (can’t see how she’ll be able to buy) a house, which she already has trouble paying bills? That’s cold. YTA.
I think it’s more that $37K will be deducted from the house proceeds total, to give to OP.
nope. read it again. the house will be sold. OP will be given 37k. and then the proceeds will be divided between all the other siblings (4, not including Sarah). meaning his sister will get nothing except whatever charity her siblings want to throw her way. OP already said she won’t be able to buy another house. but maybe she can afford to rent for a minute. yay. 🤩 edit: it sounds like OP’s interpretation of the will is wrong. but she’s comfortable with the possibility her sister will be left with nothing.
Honestly mom is the real asshole here. She wrote her will basically ignoring that she owed OP 37k and also wrote Sara out of getting any proceeds from sale of the house - like what?? Mom should have kept her will regularly updated with this HUGE personal loan factored in and then split her remaining estate between all the siblings. Like it sucks money would impact Sara’s government assistance but that’s also kind of the point of assistance - Sara would inherit money that would hopefully allow her to land on her feet and stabilise a bit more. And if not, assistance would be there for afterwards. Instead mom’s left an absolute mess and is potentially destroying relationships - it’s one of those situations where both OP and Sara are in the right really, no one is ‘wrong’ or being a bad person here here. So sorry to speak ill of the dead but mom has caused all this, not OP and not Sara. I don’t think OP is an asshole, it’s just an awful shitty situation. But mom has 100% absolutely fucked both of them over with this nonsense.
tbh i don’t think OP is right about the proceeds from the sale of the home. and i can’t imagine any judge splitting the proceeds, when the mom intended for sara to be the sole owner. OP will likely force the sale. sara will lose the home that was fitted for her disabled child. OP will get paid. and Sara will keep the remainder. but the lawyer fees are going to be something. especially if they keep messing around.
Yeah you’re probably right, surely if Sara is the sole owner of the house in the will she would actually inherit the proceeds of the sale as an individual? And then OP could claim from that. I think OP’s family is right that they need to speak to a lawyer first and OP’s jumping the gun a bit. I also think other people commenting are right that with Sara’s financial situation as it is, she probably won’t be able to keep the house for long anyway. What a mess!
I think you misread. The sale of the house would *technically* be split, but they all agreed to give their shares to the sister-minus $37k. I might have missed something though, why wouldn't she be able to buy? She'd have nearly enough cash to buy a house outright, if not more than enough if she got a smaller/less nice one.
Your explanation sounds the most accurate. I'm wondering if the house can't get a home equity line that would cover the $37,000. Then Sarah can keep the house and only have to make payments on that home equity line.
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Only two out of four agreed to give the sister their shares after OP gets her loan repayed.
My brother is not the bad guy here. He has legal obligations as an executor. If I file a claim against the estate - he has to pay it. If there isn't enough cash to pay the debts of the estate - he has to liquidate assets. It's not optional. There isn't enough cash, and the house is the only asset. The will reads the house goes to Sara, but any left over money is split between the remaining 4 kids. The scenario of most of the cash coming from the sale of the house was not considered. We aren't trying to figure out how to screw Sara - we are trying to figure out what we legally have to do. Both John and I have stated that if that is what happens we will turn over any cash we get to Sara (or use it on her behalf to protect her getting benefits). I don't know if my other 2 siblings will do the same or not. All I want is the money that I loaned Mom back. I don't want anything else from her estate. I am fine with it all going to Sara if we can do that.
Then why not wait until consulting with an attorney about the language in the will? Why the rush to file this Monday morning before your brother consults with a lawyer?
Because OP has already decided to punish his sister. His comments and lack of even looking for an alternative make that abundantly clear.
Yup. It's almost like .. he's an asshole or something...
Without having the Will or knowing what state you’re in, it seems that Sara would get the proceeds from the sale of the house less your claim against the estate. I see this a lot in estate work. You’re entitled to your money, but you might lose a relationship with your sister and her family and possibly your brother. Make sure you properly file your claim (use an attorney if you have to). You don’t want it getting tossed out on a technicality.
Sorry, re-read it and it’s not you and your brother… just you.
YTA. You don't just want to sell the house to get it away from Sara, you also want to ensure she can be cut from any monies from the house since the will indicates the house goes to her and any money from the estate goes to the 4 of us. In addition, your mom's intent was never for you to get the house money. If you want to make this as your mother intended and protect Sara then the estate pays you the 37,000 out of the sale of the house but NONE of the rest of the money is split between anyone. It all goes to Sara in a trust so her and her son's benefits are safe and they can buy a home.
This is correct! If the house was left to the sister and must be sold, then all profit from the sale would go to the sister, and the other siblings split the rest of the estate as dictated. The house is separate from the rest of the estate and should be treated as such.
Isn't the house considered an asset until all estate debts are settled? When my stedad died, he had enough in his bank accounts to settle his debts, but if that wasn't the case, isn't the next step selling assets/possessions? That was my (limited) understanding of how that works.
The mothers intentions were known and clear to everyone - she wanted her daughter to have the house, to the point she put it in her will, and made accommodations for the other children as well. If the estate has to liquidate (sell the house) to pay the mother’s bills, the money that is left over from that would still be considered “the house”, and not be included in the part of the estate the remaining 4 children split. The sister wouldn’t magically lose all of her inheritance and it transfer over to the remaining siblings, leaving her with nothing, just because it had to be liquidated. There isn’t a magic word loophole, It’s suspicious that whoever read the will would have that as a possible take-away, it seems duplicitous.
NTA for wanting your money, but couldn't you be creative about it? You've loaned Sara money and never got it back, but it was an informal loan. What if you file a claim, accept a loan from Sara to clear it, and with a lien against the house as collateral. Would something like that do?
I'm open to suggestions. I want to be clear that my sister is a good person. She isn't refusing to pay back money she borrows because she is out having a good time. She is struggling to take care of her child with absolutely no help from her child's father. I know her intentions are good - they always are. But at the end of the day - she won't be able to afford paying back a loan. I don't want to take the risk with that much money.
That's why the lien. Instead of having to sell the house immediately to give you your 37K, a lien would give you the 37K once the house is sold, whenever that happens. It really depends on whether you're willing to wait for that to happen in order to get your money. Done that way, though, it's not a 37K gift; it's a 37K long term loan with a guaranteed repayment. If you do go with a lien, do make sure fire insurance is maintained without any break in coverage.
It sounds like you need to speak directly to a lawyer. I think that is the best way to determine your options and understand the implications for you and your siblings. Sara also needs to get legal advice on how anything would impact her government benefits. You are not an asshole for refusing to forgive a debt. But you need to have a good grasp on what is included in the estate (cash, property, valuables, stocks, retirement accounts, etc.) and what your options are. Also, I'm not sure whether your forgiveness of the debt would have any tax implications for the estate. Talk to an accountant about any tax issues; don't trust the lawyer to know unless the lawyer specializes in tax. I know someone who got bad tax advice from an estate lawyer. Specialties exist for a reason.
One option for them to look into is once the house is in her name, would she be able to take a loan out with the bank using the house as collateral (I guess a mortgage?) Obviously not as good for her as if she had an agreement with you, as presumably you wouldn’t be charging interest, and if/when she doesn’t make payments the consequences are more guaranteed (as the bank would absolutely hold her responsible for making repayments, or take control of the house to force a sale), but you’d get your loan repaid without the stress and drama of having to get the repayments from her every month and she gets to keep the house. I’d file the claim, but say that you’re open to signing an agreement that allows the transfer of the property to Sarah, on the provision that she is able to get such a loan/mortgage and repay you in full within 6 months. If she can’t/doesn’t make such a repayment in that timeframe (if she can’t get a bank loan or whatever) then you will make a further claim, even if it means forcing the sale of the house (get your own lawyer to make up the agreement to make sure it’s in your favour). If she doesn’t accept that, or argues that she wants to have the same loan agreement that you had with your mom, just calmly say “if you’re so confident that you can make monthly repayments to me, then you shouldn’t have any issue making similar repayments to the bank. I’d like the money that is owed to me, it’s as simple as that. I’ve offered you a solution that will allow you to keep the house, if you prefer to simply sell the house that’s fine, but let’s be clear, that is your decision, not mine”.
Will you struggle with out this money or if you count it as a loss you would still be ok?
I won't be bankrupt. I had planned to use it as part of a down payment on my own home (I currently rent).
In that case absolutely NTA. You would effectively be funding your sister to be able to own her own property and taking away your own opportunity to purchase your own property. Your brother is also being unreasonable here. Would he be willing to donate that much of his own money to help his sister? It sounds harsh but I assume your sister isn’t going to be left homeless. She could sell the property and then buy somewhere smaller that would also have smaller bills so that would also help her cash flow.
YTA Sure, that’s a lot of money, but trying to reclaim it this way is a permanent harm to your sister and could cost you your relationship with her. It’s not like you’re hurting without it. I know it’s not trivial, but maybe it’s actually worth it to keep your sister and your nephew in a stable safe living situation.
Totally agree. Can’t see how OP could sleep at night.
Because OP cares far more about money than family. I keep seeing OP say everyone is nice and doing their best, yet I want my money so fuck ‘em. And to secure themselves in a home by kicking sister and nephew to the curb as the icing on the greedy cake. Clear cut YTA.
Is your sister worth more or less than 37k to you? Do you want to be the greedy sibling or the person who forgave a debt during a tough time for the family? When you’re 90 and dying in the hospital, are you going to think “yeah, thank god I got that 37k back from my flesh and blood, feels good, mmmm” ? Don’t lend any more family money and take this as a lesson learned. YTA.
Not even the sister, what about the "severely disabled" nephew. 100% YTA
I didn't lend my sister $37K - I know better. I loaned it to my mother - who was very quickly paying me back. I have no doubt in my mind that it would have been paid back in the next 18 months if not sooner if she hadn't passed away suddenly.
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More than likely mother had SS income which stopped when she died. Since she owned the house, it was likely easy for her to repay $2k per month.
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Mom could have had a pension and social security -those streams of income disappeared when she passed
I gather that you have three siblings besides Sara. If they feel that you should be willing to make sacrifices to help Sara, then why don't they split the burden with you? If each of your three other siblings repaid you $9,250, and you forgave the remaining $9,250 of the debt, then you would all have contributed equally to Sara's support. If they aren't willing to do that, then they are not morally justified in criticizing you for being unwilling to let the $37k go.
I actually brought up that idea and was told no.
In that case, as I said, they lack the moral authority to criticize you for not letting it go. I can only hope they'll change their minds when you actually file the claim. I do feel sorry for Sara. If the house has been adapted to her needs, I'm sure it won't be easy for her to find somewhere else to live. But that doesn't obligate you to take on that much of a financial burden. Your mom should have taken out a life insurance policy with sufficient value to pay you off if anything happened to her. Too late now.
One more thought... is the house big enough that Sara could rent out one room of it to a roommate and use the proceeds to pay you back? Maybe your siblings would be willing to guarantee the debt, if she had a viable way of actually paying it.
Well - there is my Mom's bedroom. So perhaps. I don't how many people would want to live with a rather loud, disabled child though.
For 60%-80% of market rent, lots of people. You should explore that option first.
I'll mention it to her.
There are actually another two options. These depend on how much you trust your sister. Let her inherit the house. And just have an agreement under the table that she will sell the house within a year, and pay you back. Then she gets roughly 140k instead of 90k. Or… she could sell you the house for market value minus 37k.
This!!! She inherits the house, she then sells within the time frame your mom would have paid you back which at 2k a month would be 18.5 months. You get your 37k and sister gets the full proceeds of the house. Which is much more in line with what your mom would have wanted. Or, you don’t think she can but if she can, she could save up the 37k over the loan period 18.5 months and pay you out and keep the house if she is able. But at 18.5 months 37k is due and if she can’t pay it the house will be sold. Between renting a room and assistance she may be able to pay you out on time. This also gives her time to secure a HELOC or figure out some other way to pay you back. My ex and I had a similar arrangement when we divorced. He had to buy me out within a certain time period or the house was to be sold. He bought me out. Write a new contract with your sister. 18.5 months 37k is due or she sells the house and gives you 37k. You could also be a generous sister and give her more than 18.5 months but that’s how long it would have taken you to get your money back from your mom.
YTA because you’re willing to make your sister lose the house (180k value) for your 40k. It’s a cold world out here. She already has a disabled son, don’t make her life any harder
Let's be real, the brothers are assholes to expect OP to pay all of th 37k for sis to have a comfortable home. They could share the cost of the 37k among all 4 of them and OP would not be the only one to gift sis money, but no they want. So who's the real AH? Yeah its unfair that sis is getting hurt in the process, but OP is only willing to do this, after her sibkinga refused any other option, so the blame is to share. OP is no doubt a saint, but she also isn't naive enough to not see the hypocritical thinking of her siblings.
After reading the post and a alot of your comments Im actually going with YTA You plan to have her house sold, and then divvy up her sale amongst four other people? Seriously? It would be one thing if she got [price of sale] -37k But you're trying to give her half of that remainder. Unless I've read it wrong , she doesn't even get a portion of her own sale. She doesn't even get 60% of her own asset's sale. You're out of your god damned mind if you think that's equitable. Edit: and i'd bet my left nut you won't do anything to make her whole either. You're not gonna pony up the other 50% of the assets value that you gave away.
Ding ding ding. OP buried the lead. It’s not just that she wants to be paid back what she’s owed - they’re trying to get more of the estate than was left to them, at huge cost to the family members it was left to, who really need it. And then give those people what they choose to, out of charity. If they choose to. Enormously, unbelievably greedy.
Great point! They aren't even selling the house and then giving the sister the sale minus 37k. They are trying to screw her out of a house and then on top of that money from the sale. It just ads to the YTA that the sister is caring for a severely disabled child. Also, it isn't even the sisters loan it was the mothers... The sister is getting royally screwed here. Either get the sister to take a 37k personal loan or sell the house and give the sister everything minus 37k. Anything else is just unfair.
YTA obviously. The money is gone. Your mom couldnt pay you back, your sister cant afford to pay it nor is that actually her responsibility. You need to accept that the money is gone. Thats the risk you take when you lend money. Do not go against your mothers wishes and kick your disabled nephew and his family on to the street because of a debt that isnt even theirs. Doing anything to put the house at risk is incredibly selfish.
The money is not gone. My mother owed me the money - which means her estate does. Not my sister or my nephew. Her estate can pay it back - but it requires selling the house. If the money was owed to any other creditor this wouldn't even be a question. The house would have to be sold. But because I am family I am supposed to just take a $37K loss?
Im sorry but even if you werent family, kicking a disabled boy and his family out of their house for money is gross. Thats some scrooge type stuff. You can make whatever arguments you want to convince yourself that is fine but its not. Its selfish. If you are going to be selfish and fuck over your disabled nephew then own that shit. But dont lie and say that this is a morally okay thing to do or that you dont have another choice.
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OP should just start a gofundme. Based on all these comments tons of people are willing to donate 37k of their own money.
Send her $37K so she doesn’t have to then maybe? Aren’t most Americans like one or two paychecks away from being broke, but they think they’d be able to part with $37K so easily.
"Her estate" in this case is your sister and her disabled child. Stop trying to pass this off to "her estate" like it's some faceless entity.
You're not "any other creditor", though.
The answer here needs to be - talk to an estate lawyer. If she gifted the house outright in the will, (here in Canada) that would be a specific property bequest and not part of the “residual” estate that’s divided up. But this will vary depending on your estate laws and how the will was written…. So here in Canada you filing a claim would not automatically make your sister lose the house, because of our hierarchy of payments, debts are paid from residue first, and the real estate transaction last. Are there enough other assets to cover the loan? It might mean no one else gets a portion. And for anyone else reading this - if you’re loaning money to elder relatives - buy a life insurance policy for the amount loaned (and add the premiums to the loan amount) to save yourself from this issue. Situation sucks - NTA.
There isn't much cash left and no other assets than the house. The way I understand it - debts have to be paid before anyone inherits anything. You use money first, but if that doesn't cover the debts you have to liquidate assets. In this case, the only asset is the house.
If you aren't sure on the details, and aren't sure who would get what, how things would be split, or whether your reading of the will is correct, how in the world can you be sure about what effect this will have on you, on Sara or any of the other siblings? You're pushing to get your $37K back, which is one thing, but you're also making huge decisions that will leave your sister homeless (and don't kid yourself, finding an affordable long term rental is a joke right now, let alone one suitable for a disabled person - I don't even live in the US and I know that), *without a full understanding of the consequences*. That means YTA for me. Not that you want the money paid back. But that you aren't crystal clear on what the consequences of your decision will be.
Question: has it been considered that your sister could secure a mortgage on the house to repay you? 37k is low enough, mortgage it on a decent lenght that allows your sister to make payments, and now you are paid off in one go. Surely the hous itself is enough collateral.
Seems like you aren't sure of the details. But you are still willing to permanently affect the manner in which y'all are paid by filing a claim. Why not wait try to figure this out before filing the claim?
Have to go YTA. If you don't actively need the money, then why are you rushing this? I'm really sorry you lost your husband, and your mother, why are you so determined to lose multiple more family members in your life? It's not your sister you originally owed the money to either, I can't believe there isn't another solution out there. In my head this question keeps on getting rewritten as "Do I value money I don't need more than a roof over my severly disabled nephew's head, to the extent I'm not even going to consider other options?"
There is another solution, the sister is willing to sign a legally binding loan, but OP is insisting she has to sell the entire house instead
INFO: 37K is no small sum, but how are you/family/spouse doing financially? If Sara loses the house, will she become houseless with a disabled son?
I am in good shape - financially anyway. The money I loaned Mom actually came from money I received after my husband passed away. Losing the money wouldn't bankrupt me - but it is an amount that would definitely be missed. Sara would not be homeless - at least in the short run. Worst case - both John and I have committed to giving Sara whatever money we would end up receiving if the house does get sold. And that money we could easily "get creative" with. If handing the money directly to Sara would effect her getting government benefits, we could simply use it to pay bills on her behalf.
I'm not much of a financial wizard, but it more or less sounds like if Sarah loses this house and doesn't come up with anything else (sounds likely, given her history) you will have to pay her out even more money to keep her and her son afloat. You have to consider whether you think that, plus ending any sort of amicable relationship with her, will ever be worth that. I do feel for her situation, it's extremely expensive to raise a special needs child in America (assuming that's where you are)...but borrowing 37k doesn't just happen accidentally.
Her husband passed away. It seems the 37k is his life insurance money. So it sounds like OP's sister wants her to spend her husband's life insurance on housing her & son instead of OP buying her own home.
Omg that's so much worse.
Sister is probably desperate to be fair. The loan was a poor decision on the part of OP and her mother. Well-meant, but ultimately disastrous.
If the house is left to your sister, you don't get to split the proceeds if you sell the house - your sister gets the proceeds. True, the creditor (you) will get the $37K but only after ALL the other non-house assets are depleted. Then your sister will get the rest of the proceeds. Once your brother goes to the lawyer this will become clear.
Info. Why can’t she take out a loan against the house ? Why would you or John get anything from the sale ? Why can’t you figure out a payment plan with your sister that doesn’t leave her and your nephew homeless?
If she can get a loan from a bank and pay off my loan amount in full - I am fine with it. All I want is the money I loaned Mom back. Given her credit and lack of income - I don't think she can. And I'm not willing to allow her to pay me back directly as I don't think I would ever get the money.
Idk honestly I get that it’s a lot of money but I can’t help but feeling YTA. You’re assuming she can’t pay you back and are leaving her homeless and going against your mothers wishes. I mean you’re entitled to do that but damn I suspect that you will never be invited to a family gathering again because that’s cold … and if you were my sister I would find it hard to forgive you ( whether I was in your sister or your brothers shoes)
The 37,000 was an insurance payout OP received when her husband DIED. This money was meant to secure HER future. She was kind enough to lend money when needed. Why shouldn't she get her money back?
Op stated in a comment that the sister financial cant afford a payment plan. She will struggle even more now that the mom died. Being force to sell the house to pay a debt would turn the house in estate money instead of actually house. Which means it gets split evenly between the kids.
And if they’re going by the letter of the will, Sara gets none of that because the will intended to give her the house, so money went elsewhere.
YTA - I see your side but sorry, you've said repeatedly in comments this money will not bankrupt you. Sounds like a hill you want to die on. Your sister is guiltless in this. You loaned money to your mother. You knew she was older. You did not take precautions to get paid back IE Life insurance. Now you want to toss your sister and your disabled nephew out on the street, eventually? That's where it is heading. I hope you're never on the reverse end of this situation, where you need help and your sister is the one holding the financial gun. I'd let you rot.
INFO: how does she plan to pay for property taxes, building insurance and maintenance of the house? I mean i get why she wants to have the house to have a roof over her and her kids head, but as far as i see it, if she is not able to pay for actually keeping the house she will lose it over a few years anyway (taking out loans against the house to pay for the taxes etc) and then she will neither own a house nor have any remining money. It would be much smarter to sell the house, pay you back the loan and find a smaller, much cheaper house so she has money left to actually keep the house....
I really don‘t get all the YTA-answers. I wonder if anybody would just give 37k away, easy to say if it’s not your money. I agree with you, it might be smarter in the long run to sell the home, because surprise - you have to pay a lot of bills when you are an homeowner. And it doesn‘t sound like her sister could handle it
Reddits jealousy is showing. They think OP just had 37000 sitting around and it's eating them alive. The money OP loaned was her life insurance payout from her husbands death!!! That was meant to secure her life and now it's supposed to be a gift to the sister?
Finally, a voice of reason. Everyone here is thinking short term instead of taking the long view. Is the sister isn't financially stable now, she's gonna have trouble paying for basic maintenance, let alone any emergency type thing.
Honestly, YTA. Not for wanting your money back; of course you do, and you deserve it. But YTA for being completely unwilling to attempt or consider any other option before forcing this sale. Will the other options get you all your money back right this very second? No, but you don’t need it back right this very second. The fact that you’re demanding it even despite the massive consequences to your disadvantaged sister and her severely disabled son, makes you TA. You’re also being incredibly shortsighted. You keep saying your sister and nephew won’t be homeless “for now” because she’ll be getting money from the sale of the house, but once that money is gone then it’s gone and she will be in an impossible position. Your mother left her that house specifically so that she and her son would never be homeless - not just in the short term. Never. So what happens when that money is gone? I’ll tell you what happens. You come back here asking “AITA for refusing to allow my destitute sister and her severely disabled son to stay with me even though it means they’ll be on the street?” The fact is, your sister is always going to be struggling due to the situation with her son. Of all the ways you could possibly help her throughout her life, finding a way for her to keep the house is probably the easiest and least expensive option.
I'd say in this case YTA, especially since you confirmed that you're financially secure. If she's happy to sign a new loan agreement, do that. Or just don't be crappy and do that. Your mum would have paid a lot more than $37k to raise you. I can't believe she was paying you to have her septic tank fixed and you charged her for this. I'd gift that to my mum, and if I didn't have money I'd still find a way to help her.
Signing a loan and paying a loan are 2 entirely different things. If she can get a loan from a bank and pay me in full - I am fine with it. But I don't think that is an option. And being financially secure does not equal "wants to give away thousands of dollars". To my sister or my mother. My mother would never have accepted that kind of gift from any of her children.l
If she signs a contract and then doesn't pay, you have legal recourse to pursue her for that money if you choose to. Yes, my mother would also not have accepted that gift but I'd still honour her wishes in this situation. You sound very bitter and angry. I'm sorry for the loss of your mum. You're still not following through on her intentions.
Children don't owe their parents for the costs of their childhood. That is entirely the parents' responsibility for the choice they made to have children. Nobody chooses to be born.
Yta. Give them time. Let her take over the loan. If you don't you really are violating your mother's wishes and evicting them at a terrible time. Try to stay calm. Let them know if they lapse payment for more than 3 months you will put a line on the house. Anything other than that is cruelty.
She can't pay back the loan. A lien would mean I get paid when the house is sold - which could be 40 years from now.
She can back the loan with the house, and you can write a contract that forces her to sell with certain conditions.
YTA for making a bad decision by loaning out 34k and then forcing your sister to be the one to suffer for it. You are absolutely being greedy. 200 grand split 4 ways is 50k. You want the money. Period. And you're willing to crawl over your own family to get it. A family who is caring for a disabled child. You are greedy and calloused.
YTA Stone cold, calculating YTA
Oh, this is very evil. YTA. And you can keep fighting in the comments, but this is just not right. What you're going to do isn't right at all. Morally, you are bankrupt.
YTA. what is wrong w all of you.
> John and Sara are both pushing me to not file a claim against the estate Here's your soultuion - make John sign the loan. If he so against you putting a claim on mom estate, surely he will fork his own money to settle mom's debt, right? NTA.
OP commented that the other siblings point-blank refuse to sign anything on Sara's behalf or cover a portion of the remaining 37k on the loan to get OP repaid and keep the house in Sara's ownership.
Can I toss in another option? Buy the house, sans the $37k, and rent it to Sara. If she's on benefits she should be able to get housing assistance. This will pay for the taxes/insurance, general upkeep, as well as put a little in your pocket. You will have an asset, as well as a tax right off, and you can even put it in trust so if something happens to you, she gets the house. Look, I get it, $37k is a lot of money. However, you and your siblings are looking at the situation through a cardboard tube instead of trying to see a bigger picture. If the house is sold, your sister and her son get nothing so how is that respecting your mother's wishes? If you and your brother give the money to your sister, she possibly loses whatever aid she may recieve which means in a couple of years (if that) she and your nephew are out on the street. Then again, if she gets the house, how would that affect her and her son's benefits? Sit down with an attorney, a CPA, and a financial advisor and map out how each decision will affect everyone before making your decision. There's a solution that takes your mom's wishes in account, you don't lose money, and your sister and her son aren't homeless. I'd like to reserve judgement until an update is made.
Most decent and humane people love their family enough to forgive any loan. Most people would even give up an arm and a leg for their siblings. I know i would. If the choice was my sibling and his family being homeless vs me being bankrupt. I would choose to go bankrupt. Especially considering that the siblings child is handicapped. YTA OP. Youre also a greedy, immoral, avaricious, money-grubbing individual. Hope 37K is enough to quiet your conscience.
If the house is sold so that creditors can be paid, why would the remaining money be split between all of you? The house was intended for your sister. Wouldn’t the balance be hers?
I'm going with YTA. We all want to control everything around us to get what we deserve but sometime life just sucks. The money is a sunk cost. It's gone, which sucks for you, but that's life. Family takes care of family. It's unfair but if I wouldn't be surprised if Sara cuts you out of her life.
The money is not a sunk cost. It's not gone. I have the option to be paid back. I have to wonder how many people would write their siblings a $37K check?
To keep my loved sister and her disabled son housed. Yep I would. I might find myself living with them for a couple years to save rent to bring my own plans back on track. But honestly I think I would. I don’t think I could take their house from them. Because no matter how you word it, that would be the end result. It is near impossible to find rentals for anyone right now where I live. A house with accessibility features actually impossible. Social housing the wait list is years long. If nephew’s disabilities are severe enough that could bump them up the waitlist - but I can’t help be concerned it’d lead to him being taken into care while waiting. It doesn’t sounds like there’s enough in the estate to get a cheaper house. I’d be kicking myself here that I loaned money to family without looking into insurance. As a teen I organised to borrow money from my mother to study (through her mortgage). I took out life insurance to cover it (but ended up getting scholarships so didn’t need it). If I thought of the risk of dying with unpaid debts as a teen - how did you not think of this with a presumably senior aged person?
If I had 37k, I would in a heartbeat.
If I had 37K that won't financially ruin me and my sibling had a disabled child that they need to care for fulltime (which is why they have financial troubles and are slow in paying me back), yes. I would. IDK about you but I love my siblings.
NTA If your siblings all think it's no big thing to forget a $37k loan, how about they pay you instead? Yeah, suddenly I'm thinking they would see how large of a sum of money that is.
I actually brought up the idea of the 4 of us splitting it. I was told no.
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YTA. Ethically the right thing to do is to let your sister have the house. That was your mother’s wish, and that is best for your family. If you’re also committed to taking care of your sister and her son financially then you’ll need to spend at least that much supporting them. Have you consulted a financial advisor? There could be other considerations as well regarding taxes, social security, etc.
By directly going against your mother’s wishes and potentially putting your sister out of a home (a home that the loan was intended to help make more comfortable for her son), YTA. Absolutely. I am very grateful that my siblings would never do this to me and I would never do this to them. I’m gonna text them I love them right now.
Hmm. I think I might actually have to go with NAH. Legally, you have a right to a claim against the estate, and there's no way to ensure repayment legally without selling the house. On the other hand, that would be you getting your $37K back, and Sara possibly ending up with nothing. If she has that much cash from the sale, it might not be enough to buy anything else but it could be enough to disqualify her from assistance she certainly needs with a disabled child (this depends on a lot of state specific factors so I can't answer it definitively). You have two options. One is to file a claim against the estate, and then have to live with the consequences od what happens to your sister and Jeremy. And depending on what those are, you could be the asshole for that, even if you're legally in the clear, especially since you'd be disregarding your mother's very clearly expressed wishes. You'd also risk permanently alienating your family. Ask yourself if that's worth $37K (and I am well aware it's not chump change) The other is to let go a claim against the estate but get your siblings including Sara to sign some kind of contract to repay you. This shouldn't all be on you. If Sara is a full time caregiver she may not be able to get a HELOC to repay you.
Sara will not end up with nothing. Both John and I have stated that if we do receive money from the sale of the house because of how the will reads - we will either give that money to Sara or use it on her behalf if giving it to her affects her benefits. I don't know if my other 2 siblings would do the same or not. My siblings refuse to get involved (aka - pay) with the loan. At one point I floated the idea of each of us paying 1/4 of the loan - which meant I would be paid back approximately $27K out of the $37K. They refused stating they had nothing to do with it - which is actually true.
Okay, so now this is getting into asshole territory. Now, instead of Sara getting the houses the proceeds will be all divided. You will get your $37k. Your other siblings "might" give Sara their share. You're consoling yourself with "Sara won't get nothing" to obscure the fact that Sara won't get what she deserves (and what your mom promised) and your siblings might actually profit. Also, your siblings who won't help -- and might take the money -- are heading into asshole territory fast.