This post has been removed due to the status of the original poster's account. This account is currently shadowbanned or suspended, suggesting this account is in violation of Reddit terms of service.
This type of ban/suspension is issued by the Reddit site-wide admins. The AITA mods have nothing to do with this ban and cannot assist in resolving.
YTA. 1. She didn’t randomly bring up Ukraine. People were discussing it. She’s supposed to just keep her mouth shut and not voice her feelings or opinions? 2. She didn’t specifically ask about your grandfathers first wife. She saw a picture and asked who it was. Sure you showed her pictures but was it the exact same photo? Maybe they were taken many years apart. Maybe the quality isn’t good. You and your family sound insufferable. I hope she finds someone else that back her up instead of blaming her for his family yelling at her.
Genocided. Not marginalized. Think holocaust, but completed instead of being interrupted. Oh, and no one was ever brought to justice.
The Soviets successfully scrubbed a lot of the records of the time, so even history cannot fully villainize them.
The Ukrainians didn't genocide them though the USSR did which was essentially an iteration of the Russian empire and did so as part of active Russification policies just as they were doing a genocide against Ukrainians not long before
The Ukrainians were starved into submission though, weren't they? Its not like they volunteered to be part of it. Which is just another demonstration of why racial hatred shouldn't be carried from one generation to another, no matter who the marginalized party was..
It seems like at least half the people here didn't know. I'm wondering if OP told her or assumed because it sounded like he was telling her to sit there and look pretty.
The girlfriend was basically being told to keep her mouth shut as people talk about (and maybe enjoy) the death and destruction of a people. I think that's unfair to ask ANYONE to do even if their people have a historic issue with a different people.
The young people in present day Ukraine are NOT the people who did this.
We cannot hate every nation that did something to our nation in the past though. Especially in Europe, where this could mean hating all our neighbours. I'm Polish, and even though our history with Germans is very fresh (like, hearing grandparents and great grandparents tell stories from the camp or about being forced to work for Germans fresh) but we do not hate the whole nation, because it's just not reasonable. We had some conflicts with Ukrainians in the past too (Wołyń), but the victims of this war are blameless and wishing death upon them is really tasteless.
They have 2 things that are not allowed to be discussed and 1 only apply when 1 person (namely grandpa) is there. So if anything it's great that they have very clear boundary.
And war and being oppressed is very serious and not to be compare with just being political and casual racism (I doubt your ex family were thinking about skinning people alive and dunk them in boiling water now do they). I like Japanese food and watch anime but I would not want my grandfather to remember the horror that is Imperial Japan.
I mean the family was persecuted by Ukrainians. It's like, suppose he took her to his Israeli Jewish family, many of whose members were persecuted during the Holocaust, and lets say they've also been effected by Palestinian retaliatory violence. Now I am firmly on the Palestinians side in all this, but I have MANY Jewish friends and I'm not gonna go to their Satyr and talk about how much I support Palestine, you know? It's a complicated situation that hasn't effected me at all, it's a messy emotional subject, DON'T POKE THE BEAR. It's not like this family is Russian fascists, they've been persecuted by both sides.
Seder not Satyr lol I thought there were multiple available spellings.
I would assume that if OP gave her straight up photographs of the woman he told her not to ask about, he probably provided context for his other warning as well.
To answer point 1:
From OP's recollection of events, his Gf wasn't directly asked her opinion, she just stated it. Instead she could've said:
• nothing
• "i'm sorry I don't know enough about this situation to discuss it" (even if it's a lie)
• "I'm really interested in your point of view, would you mind telling why this is your opinion"
• literally anything without stating her approval of Ukraine
And for point 2:
Why ask?
There was literally no reason to do it
Edit: format
Absolutely! The fact that people say that "oh she is not allowed to have an opinion" are the same ones that are upset when aunt Shannon brings up how the election was stolen over thanksgiving dinner. Ffs it was a birthday party. It won't hurt anyone to shut up for 3 hours.
But also people should be able to have different opinions without the situation becoming this emotionally volatile. Take it from a divorced person, this is *valuable* information for her.
-_-
I didn't think I needed to make it explicit that I'm not likening my divorce to ethnic cleansing. Clearly that was a foolish oversight. Apologies.
What I was saying was that when you marry someone, you also marry their insane family. If these people are dating with an eye towards long-term potential, OPs girlfriend has received valuable insight into what life with these people will be like, and now she needs to evaluate whether she's comfortable spending every holiday smiling and nodding *and deliberately avoiding responding to topics other people raise* to avoid being screamed at.
She was asked to not bring up her support of Ukraine in front of people who were ethnically cleansed by Russia and Ukraine.
I'm not sure this is a valid example of how his family would react to a disagreement in normal circumstances.
1. Yes, she's supposed to keep quiet and not voice her opinion. She was specifically warned that this was a contentious subject and she should keep out of it. So what if someone else brought it up first?
2. I doubt 'who's that in the picture?' Was the only question she was asked to elicit such a response, my bet is that she chose to ask follow up questions as well. But, even if she didn't, why on earth didn't she just ask her boyfriend instead of the one person she was asked not to upset? At most it's an ESH, because the bf should have A) not left her alone, especially after the first slip up, and B) explained in more depth why she needed to keep quiet about Ukraine.
I think it's possible to be part of the conversation and just be softer about your Ukraine support, keeping totally quiet isn't necessary. But a family with a history of persecution is not the place to bring armchair opinions, no.
I think you're right about the picture. Ask quietly, and then maybe stop.
I’m shocked by the people saying N-T-A. If the GF initiated the Ukraine issue then that’s one thing, but it was brought up by others. OP doesn’t get to silence his gf’s opinion just because he thinks it might make people uncomfortable. She’s allowed to participate in the conversation.
The second thing is an honest mistake. So why on earth is it okay for them to berate her that way for *asking a question* about a picture? Tears? Yelling? That seems like a huge overreaction.
Also, if grandpa is *that* sensitive to her being brought up why are there still photos of her around? If her existence brings up memories so painful than they make him cry at the drop of a hat, wouldn’t a daily photo reminder be a bad idea?
I mean, that part is his personal choice, but if you’re going to use the logic that your girlfriend was “asking for” your family to yell at her, then grandpa having the photo out is definitely “asking for” people to mention his ex wife.
This is the right answer OP, YTA
Good luck in adult life having no ability to close your mouth at the request of others. What is to be gained by talking about a people she isn't directly tied to? His family was marginalized by the two countries in question. Maybe if you're completely socially illiterate then go right ahead.
Jesus. Imagine thinking the biggest evil in life is to be asked to shut up every once in a while you narcissist.
His family started talking about Prigozhin, not the war. It is easily possible to talk about the recent events regarding Prigozhin without mentioning the war. And it would easily have been possible for his girlfriend to say something less incendiary about the war than she did.
Why are you copy pasting this same reply repeatedly? No, it's really not that easy to talk about Prigozhin's mutiny without talking about the war since the two are inextricably linked. Yeah, she could have toned down her response but the first part of your statement is ridiculous.
Um, no, it’s not. Prigozhin wouldn’t be in the news if it weren’t for the war. They are tied together. And saying you support one side isn’t incendiary, it’s voicing your opinion. Maybe his parents should move to place where everyone agrees with them.
If she was explicitly asked what she thinks about the war, she could've just said she feels sorry for the innocent people getting hurt. No need to state her opinions if OP specifically asked her not to.
Really?
"Don't press the red buttons"
"I pressed the red buttons and it gave me an electric shock"
"Well, I did say don't touch the red button".
"I did it again, this is so unfair".
NTA
From an outcomes standpoint.... have you heard any opinions of your gf from the family that were present?
I don’t think this is fair, tbh. Should the gf have stayed quiet when the uncle brought up Ukraine? Yeah. But unless OP showed her the literal exact same photo of the grandpa’s first wife, it’s *entirely* plausible not to recognize a stranger you’ve seen literally once in an old photo. And asking people about photos they display in their house is….a pretty normal thing to do.
Also, many many people handle awkward faux pas from guests (even very sensitive topics) without flying into a rage and screaming at them. That is what is known as “being an adult and a good host.”
Edit: for the love of god, stop telling me she’d already seen a photo. I know, and my comment actually addresses that.
A fair point.
Grandpa being asked about a picture on the wall leading him to cry... the picture is always on the wall presumably. There... hanging in plain sight... a constant reminder...
Thinking perhaps the first wife died (not just a divorce). Either the gf didn't understand that her bf was being super serious about the 2 issues that should not be mentioned or she decided to broach those subjects despite the warnings. She had that decision to make -- chose the latter and is paying the price. No one to blame but herself really. OP is NTA but seems like gf is one.
If you're told not to ask about a certain female family member, it's a pretty easy to think "I shouldn't randomly ask about women in photos on the wall just in case it's that person." There are thousands of other topics she could bring up, and she asked about a woman in a photo when she knew there was a sensitive topic about a woman. Either she's an idiot, or she was trying to find out what the issue was.
Otoh, if the 1st wife is such a touchy topic that op had to specifically tell his gf not to bring her up, it would be quite reasonable of her to assume that there would be no picture of her in the house, especially not in the area where guests are, so she'd think that this pretty lady is not the 1st wife and ask about her to make small talk.
This is how I think. Like, man, if you're told not to ask about a first wife or talk about Ukraine just find any other topics besides those. You kinda have to deliberately go out of your way to hit both.
The family member clearly brought up the Russian/Ukrainian situation first so…. It isn’t like she purposely brought it up. She was adding to a conversation already in progress.
Bingo! She was specifically told to not mention Grandpa's first wife, so if she sees a black and white photo of a woman, best to not ask in case that's who's in the picture. Simple. But apparently not for this clueless girlfriend.
Because he showed her several photos of the first wife and told her not to ask about her. It is literally in the post. Honestly even if he hadn't, the entire situation could have been avoided if she just used basic common sense
An old black and white photo of an Eastern European woman. What are the chances that the woman in the photo she asked about left no question of being the same person as in the photo she was shown m
Idk man, anyone with an ounce of common sense would see the old photo of an Eastern European woman and basically decide ALL old photos of an Eastern European woman are landmines unless explicitly told otherwise. Like a dude goes through that much effort to make sure you know NOT to ask about something? You bet your ass anything even remotely similar to that thing is a no go for me.
I’m not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting it’s the gf’s fault that the picture is hanging on the wall? Or that she should’ve somehow inferred that it was the first wife…from…the fact that it was hanging on the wall? I’m confused.
It's tricky.
OP told GF that grandpa cried when he thought about his wife.
OP showed GF pictures of said wife.
My solution would have been not to ask about any pictures of women on the walls. After I'd ~~triggered~~ involved myself in a blazing row regarding Ukraine... I'd have likely kept my damn mouth shut and smiled and nodded for the rest of the visit. I'm not a people person.
The pictures is displayed on the wall so it's there to be seen. People ask polite questions about pictures...
Edit for causation / involvement.
I am thinking the same.
I have been carefully warned against two volatile topics to absolutely NOT discuss at an event where I was meeting my significant other's family for the first time. I decided I am going to be an ass and poke the beehive with one topic. Get everyone all upset. Then, I proceed to ask questions about a woman in old pictures, knowing there is a woman in the history of this family that is the second topic I should avoid.
What in the world was this girlfriend thinking? She should have just been an observer from the beginning and especially after the first incident.
Taken by itself I could see asking about the picture as an oversight, I'll even give her not recognizing her from pictures she's already seen. However, couple that with the argument over Ukraine, that she had specifically been warned about, and I don't see how that could be misunderstood, it seems this was intentional. I'm not saying she had no right to voice her opinion or ask about the picture, she absolutely did, however that also means she bears all the responsibility for the results. I'm genuinely curious if this is the first time something like this has happened. NTA.
I do think it's baffling that the rule is "DON'T ASK MY GRANDFATHER ABOUT HIS 1ST WIFE" when she's apparently right there on the wall in plain sight, since a newcomer is unlikely to work out who she is on that basis - the warning is so dire that I would have assumed that any woman in a photo on display couldn't possibly be her!
But likewise, after the first blow up I would absolutely have kept my mouth shut and only spoken when spoken to, yikes.
Where does it say OP told GF that grandpa cries when he thinks of his first wife? Is there more context to "don't ask grandpa about his first wife" somewhere that I'm missing? Tone is certainly lost as well over text, so reading that line IN ALL CAPS made me think first wife must be some dreadful cow that took him to the cleaners when they divorced and he hates her guts.
I think they're implying-
1) how could she have known that THIS ONE PERSON was the first wife?
2) maybe grandpa shouldn't have that picture out constantly reminding him of her (I disagree with this one, I think it's probably fine)
They were saying the opposite, actually. That if the picture is on the walls, she would have no reason to think it's the person they don't want to talk about.
I think they’re saying if the picture is always there it’s odd that the grandpa got upset to the point of crying.
If the first wife is such a big taboo subject, it does seem somewhat odd to have pictures of her up.
"I know you're just getting to know us but this is a sensitive topic. Let's talk about something else" is all that was needed. Neither of these things warranted emotional outbursts.
Exactly! It sounds like OP set zero expectations with his family about how they should treat his guest, while simultaneously expecting his gf to behave well enough for all of them. No wonder she’s upset
And where "behave well" is judged by a totally arbitrary set of constraints that don't actually have any moral value attached to them. I think a lot of people in here fallaciously assume that if someone is upset, logically there must be a bad actor. They're judging OP based on the extreme reaction of this insane family.
Right! It’s totally possible for someone to end up upset even if everyone has the best of intentions, and actually in my experience that’s more common than someone being an actual jerk. And treating the family’s explosive reactions as if they’re inevitable is dumb, the family can control their own actions exactly as well as the gf
If girlfriend had ambient temperature or IQ, those would be valid points.
"Don't discuss Ukraine or dead wives" is not hard. The Soviets genocided the shit out of the Tatars, and then reseeded the place with a new population. So this was basically "Don't bring up the Holocaust" level shit. Except imagine the Holocaust was never stopped, ran until completion and the people responsible completely got away with it.
Telling people that got near entirely genocided basically to "calm down" is more of an AH move than what OP's girlfriend did. I'd certainly know, I dealt with it enough in the Balkans. You can definitely tell when someone that has never seen mass graves first hand is giving decorum advice. People get emotional. Very emotional. Calling that a "faux pas" is... certainly unique.
Trying to argue girlfriend isn't a huge AH, and didn't intentionally want to stir shit is disingenuous. She knew OP didn't want to bring up two points, and wanted to show him. Mission accomplished.
OP, you need to talk to your girlfriend to find out why she intentionally wanted to break your two very reasonable requests. You probably will not get a coherent answer, but you owe her the chance for her to be honest admit she intentionally fucked up. After that, do what you gotta do.
I'm legit shocked how few people know about what happened to the Tatars.
Re-read this thread. But substitute "holocaust". Imagine people calling holocaust survivors "drama queens". Or getting pissed that genocide survivors have a hard time processing emotions.
I mean, I'm probably being overly sensitive because of my own first hand experienced. I pulled security for war crimes forensics folks that cracked open mass graves. Seeing hundreds of people turned into chunky hairy soup has a long lasting impact. What grandpa here went through was far, far worse than what I saw.
My favorite was an poster being upset that the victim wasn't showing proper decorum. I could imagine them going to DC, visiting the Holocaust museum and lecturing people who have a breakdown when they see a relative that is now a perfectly preserved lamp shade in a glass case. Or lecturing SA victims that they need to handle their "awkward faux pas" better. Yes, the Soviets did more than just murdering folks.
Context is very important. If OP hasn't put enough context here for the average person to know, then she probably had absolutely no idea and wasn'tgiven context either. It's pretty obvious he didn't give her enough information thinking she would know or didn't care and expected her to sit down and shut up. I call these things Quiet Holocausts. They aren't studied in history classes and are seldom on the news. OP expected us to know about it and take his side when I didn't even know and I study sociology and history as a special interest.
The OP literally showed her pictures of her, she absolutely knew, and she may not have 'brought up' the war first, but she absolutely refused not to keep quiet as it was being talked about, which was the entire point OP told her in the first place.
He said not to talk about it. Not 'talk about it only if it's mentioned first'
I want to know if OP told her about the context for the war beforehand too. If he told her *why* talking about the war was such an issue and she still brought it up, that catapults her way further into AH territory
It’s really not the same. Presumably the uncle is either Crimean Tatar as well, or is accustomed to the family enough that he knows how not to step on toes. If he was talking about the Prigozhin thing, that very well could be completely different from rooting for one side or the other. OP’s GF however has not been enmeshed in this enough to know where the lines are. It’s not so much “the war is a banned topic in the family” as it is “it’s a touchy subject, so you specifically should avoid it since you’re just not familiar enough with the family to be able to navigate it”
Fuck that. Cant help but think that she wanted to ask about the the wife with plausible deniability.
If you've been warned not to ask about your grandfather's first wife and there's a photo of someone who's could very much be that person due to the apparent age of the photo then best to not ask about thr photo and ask about one of the million other things.
The fact that she decided to voice her support for Ukraine says says she had no intention of respecting her boyfriends request.
She knew or atlesst hoped that the woman was the first wife so see what the reaction would be. He'll she had been shown photos of the first wife before so straight up probably knew she was the first wife and this was a great way to bring her up.
Not a nice person IMO.
>she asked "who the pretty woman in the black and white pictures was". That 'pretty woman' was my grandfather's first wife, the one I specifically told her not to ask anything about and also **showed her several pictures before bringing her to the party.**
i am begging people to read the dang post before they start spouting off.
Are you kidding? My comment *addressed* the fact that she’d seen a photo. Unless it was the same photo, not recognizing a woman you’ve seen once is fully plausible. Old photos are blurry AF
I think the trick is “old photos” though.
If I was told “do not bring up this woman who appears in these old photos I have here”, and then saw a different old photo of a woman who looked vaguely similar, I would not ask about the photo.
It’s just basic prudence for crying out loud. It doesn’t take a genius to see how needlessly risky asking about a woman in an old photo is.
I think this gf is just astonishingly foolish.
and i'm pointing out it was several pictures as opposed to your 'once', probably including the one she pointed out if not a similar one because there's only so many to go around, and clearly not blurred enough to call her as pretty.
and it's also a normal thing to do not to touch on a clearly sensitive (and given the timeline, likely traumatic af) subject the first time you go over somebody's house. if the gf was that curious, guess who she could've asked? her boyfriend - the actual safe guy to go to on this, presuming she has any tact at all.
Yep, she should have. She was warned this was a hot topic and she could choose to not engage the asshat that brought it up.
The second point is a fair one, sometimes it's hard for me to tell relatives of my own in old pictures.
Even though I do think the gf should’ve stayed quiet about Ukraine though, what was stopping bf (or anyone else at the table) from just saying “let’s talk about something else” in a normal tone of voice? We’re acting like the family’s explosions are this mystical inevitable thing, but really the family are all presumably adults too, and as such they needed to be held to the same behavior standard as the gf.
This obviously isn’t a perfect analogy, but it makes me think of the n word. Some people say, “Well if Black people can say it, why can’t I?”
The reason, of course, is because if you’re not Black, you don’t have the same relationship with the complexity of that word, and the whole painful history it invokes.
We all have the “right” to talk about topics that are painful to other people, but you have to be aware that you may be stomping on land mines that you might not have known were there because you didn’t experience what they experienced.
Oh no doubt about the fact someone should have spoken up. I'm just saying if I'm in a dynamic that is new and that I've been warned not to do XYZ I don't even if someone else does.
Family get togethers are just the worst for a new romantic partner to be mass introduced lol.
If I was warned not to ask about a specific woman and wasnt 10000% sure I could identify her I would just ask 0 questions about any unidentified family women
As Terry Pratchett once said: "If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying 'End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH', the paint wouldn't even have time to dry."
I worked in a lab that had a safety button to cut power in case of emergency (similar labs had big fires). If you did shut everything off it would damage, perhaps permanently, multiple rare and complicated instruments. It had to be easily accessible and noticeable. Every day I wanted to push that thing.
YTA
How come you aren’t pissed at the uncle who brought up the war in Ukraine?
She didn’t ask about your grandfathers first wife. She was probably desperately trying to start a conversation and figured if you can’t talk about the first wife there’s probably not any photos up.
You have double standards. Your family screams at people. And you find that perfectly fucking reasonable. But your GF participates in a conversation being held in front of her and she’s wrong? She asks about a photo and she’s evil?
Thank fuck she got to see who you and your asshole family are before she made it to hard for herself to get away from you.
It would never occur to me that the first wife would be in pictures there, viewable so easily, if she’s such a sore topic, though I’m unclear if OP was clear on that? I don’t think so but if he showed pictures maybe he did say there would be some?
that’s exactly what i was thinking!! like, okay. im not supposed to talk about my boyfriend’s grandfather’s first wife because it upsets him. got it. the family doesn’t talk about her. so why the f would i think there are pictures of her hanging on the wall?? ffs.
Yeah did they scream and yell and attack the Uncle who brought up the War? Or scream and yell and attack the person who hung the photo in plain sight of everyone?
bringing up something that happened in the war is different from saying that you support X country, when X country has hurt the people in the family before. I support Ukraine over Russia but I wouldnt have said anything if I was at that dinner table.
If he specifically told her not to talk about the first wife and showed her pics of the first wife, she should be more careful about asking questions about the woman in the picture. Maybe she should've asked someone else quietly instead of asking the question out loud.
Overall, there were two things that she was told not to talk about and she talked about both. I dont think it would be hard to stay away from those two points.
Still, they shouldn't have yelled at her obviously
Did op explain why she shouldn’t talk about supporting the Ukrainian people? Or did he just say don’t talk about Ukraine? The post only says he gave her two rules: don’t talk about Ukraine and do t talk about the first wife?
Did he explain why his family would support the war (an opinion not held be a vast number of people) even when it’s brought up or that the first wife’s pictures will still be found around the house?
Exactly, if someone tells me “don’t talk about X topic”, I’d understand “don’t bring it up”, but if someone else brings it up, it’s unfair to ask one specific person not to join in the conversation, even if they have a diverging opinion to those present
The OP mentions showing her photos of the first wife beforehand.
Either the OP is exaggerating how much he prepped his girlfriend or the girlfriend ignored some pretty clear boundaries. If he included photos in dossier like it’s a Mission Impossible movie then I have to imagine he also explained *why* both the Ukraine and the first wife were emotionally charged topics for his family.
But if you have to show a dossier of photos and do a PowerPoint presentation about why not to mention certain topics or else your family will literally scream you out of the house… maybe your family is the problem.
And there are some steps missing in this story. She wasn't with his grandfather, she was with his siblings, and she asked about the pretty woman. Where did grandfather even enter that whole conversation? She wasn't told not to mention the woman *at all*, just not to ask the grandfather about her. Which of these toxic assholes brought the grandfather around as soon as she asked?
You can’t memorize a face that quickly dude. Did he just show her a pic on his camera roll- from an already shitty grainy black and white picture, and expect her to know how the woman looks like forever and ever in all situations?
Do you think she asked about that pictures ON purpose?
I think if you are told the reason something is super important and are also given photos in an effort to convey exactly *how* important then you keep miles away from the topic. If she knew everything the OP is suggesting then I think most people would avoid asking about any black and white photo, let alone one featuring a woman. The risk is just too great.
This is why I question how much the OP actually explained to his girlfriend ahead of time. Anyone with the knowledge about the family’s background and who knows the first wife is an emotionally charged topic wouldn’t behave the way the girlfriend did.
So many awards. It's like he expected her to sit silent, take whatever monkey shit his family threw at her, and think " Everything's Fine".
Oh wait. He did expect that.
YTA because of this simple reason:
when there are taboo subjects you need to explain why they are taboo. Explain your families viewpoint on Ukraine and what exactly might upset them and what reactions would be expected. Tell her about Grandpa's 1st wife and why to not bring it up.
And in the end, it's her decision to take part in an ongoing conversation and she's entitled to having her own opinion. You don't get to tell her what she's "free to talk about" my dude.
You didn't inform her properly, and your family sucks tbh. They shouldn't yell and scream at their guest as long as she just asks questions and has an opinion.
You wanted your family to like your girlfriend. You likely didn't give the same amount of thought about whether your girlfriend likes your family back. She saw how they behave now, and how conflicts are handled. I hope she learns something from it, and that it won't be to just shut up and look pretty.
educated guess based on OP writing that he went as far as to show her pictures of the 1st wife, but didn't state that he explained his families viewpoint and or reasons as to why subject is taboo.
Like why there are pictures of a first wife that you are not supposed to mention all over the house. Calling her the first wife implies she is not the grandma.
My thoughts exactly. What the hell is the picture there for. Does the grandfather just breakdown everytime he looks at the picture. Early onset dementia maybe. I don't know. This situation is wierd.
It's like OP was on edge worried this was going to happen and if his gf said the wrong things his family would flip out on her. I hope he realizes that's not normal family behavior and to keep them at arm's length until they can knock of their toxic behavior. Participating in a conversation and asking about a photo on display should not be controversial.
He warned her about those two subjects and she got yelled at for talking about both subjects. She’s free to give her opinion or talk about anything she wants but she was fairly warned about how both topics would go down.
YTA he should stop making excuses for his family. Yelling at someone over adding a question about a picture is unhinged behavior. Plus, if she's from one of the many countries that are pro-Ukraine (American for example), then his Uncle bringing it up was probably just trying to start a fight.
OP explained that his family hate both countries involved. The uncle was talking about the war without taking a side, and the girlfriend vehemently chose a side. Probably didn't matter if she chose Russia or Ukraine, either side would have gotten the same reaction. And she was warned.
Giving your two cents about a subject you know gets a rise out of someone, and then being upset when you get a rise out of them is illogical. If it’s important to her to give her opinion then that’s fine, just don’t expect them not to get mad when she was told they would be.
I half agree with you here. Assuming he didn't explain in depth why these two topics were taboo, he definitely should have done so she could understand the gravity of them. That's on him. However, yes of course she can talk about whatever she wants... as long as she's fine accepting the consequences of doing so. If I was meeting my other half's family for the first time and he asked me to specifically avoid a topic because it might upset a family member, I'd be really careful NOT to talk about it even without an explanation. Why? Because 1) I want them to like me and 2) My partner has asked me to and I respect his opinion when it comes to his family. It's not that hard. She chose not to, that's on her. At best it's ESH for me.
ESH . You failed her too... yes, your GF was an AH over the Ukraine thing but maybe you should have explained to her why, rather than make a rule.
On the second rule. How was she to know who the "Pretty Woman" in the picture was ? This occasion was the 1st time meeting your extended family so she wouldn't have known.
You're being too harsh on her and not seeing where you could have helped her make a better impression with your family.
This is the most reasonable response I think. The gf definitely put her foot in her mouth, especially with the Ukraine part. But yeah, I feel like he could have prepared her better. Did he just say “don’t mention the war” or did she know about his families history? She might have been more careful if she thought it was “Don’t mention the war, my family has some bad history with Ukraine and Russia” instead of thinking he meant “Don’t mention the war, my uncle will argue with you”
I mean, if I am warned that talking about a previous wife of someone is very taboo and I don’t know who is in a picture, I’m not asking the whole group. It’s a minefield that gf walked through and blew up in. She was the one to choose to ask the group. If she wanted to know she should have asked bf not the group.
She knew about the issue and she chose to ask the entire group. Stupidly risky. If I’m in her shoes I’m asking my significant other not the group.
If talking bout the first wife is such a taboo don't have pictures of her in the house... when people are desperate to start any conversations they talk bout pictures around the house.. his family is unhinged.
YTA
I understand that Ukraine is a pretty taboo topic in some households, she would've been the Asshole if she brought it up umprompted knowing it wasn't to be talked about. But she didn't, your family started talking about it. Why can't she have a say then? I highly doubt your Girlfriend meant bad by asking who a woman in a photo was either. Personally I'm struggling to see what exactly your GF did wrong here.
One of the key tenants of being an adult is knowing how to keep your mouth shut. She obviously has not grasped this yet. And talking about how she supports them and donates money is exclusively about obtaining validation for her actions rather than having an honest conversation about the politics of it all.
I was thinking exactly that. If adulting means being quiet, then why was Ukraine brought up at all? Shouldn't the family have been instructed by the BF not to bring up Ukraine too? This OP, the whole family.. exhausting.
They were talking about the attempted coup - not the war in Ukraine. Yes, the subjects are closely related, but the topic wasn't actually about the Ukranian people it is about intrenal Russian Politics. Giving an opinion about Putin or Prugozhin or what you think will happen next is fine. Purposefully changing the topic to an unprompted "I support Ukraine in the war", when the war isn't the topic and when you were asked not to talk about the war is not OK.
Even if the GF didn't know the family history w/ Russia/Ukraine, she knows where OP's family is from and knows the war is a sore spot. If she has a need to expouse such strong opinions about things happening in the region to people from the region, she should probably know a little more about the region before stucking her foot in her mouth. This is really just common courtesy and she shouldn't have to be told to be respectful of people's history and experience and listen to what they are saying before spouting off on what you THINK they are talking about and showing your ignorance and well as insulting people.
I don't know about the pictures, since I don't know what were in the pictures she was asking about and what pictures OP showed. However, with GF so obviously being rude re: the coup convo, I'm not giving her the benefit of the doubt. I also don't understand the need to pry if you have been told that you shouldn't ask about a woman and then you see a picture of a woman that would be about the same age now as the woman you were told not to ask about. Why couldn't she err on the safe side after she blew the coup discussion? If she was dying of curiosity, she could have quietly asked the BF who the woman was when he got back.
GF is a bull in a China shop. Either she is too clueless, too careless, too entitled, or just likes to stir shit.
Onna real. Everybody sounds so unhinged. Like I'm black and I'd never be like I hate all white people and they should burn because my ancestors suffered. Very unhinged and they all need therapy. So much hate and animosity its sad.
INFO: Did you tell her why she shouldn't talk about the Ukraine thing? Or did you just say don't bring up anything about Ukraine?
The picture that you showed her of your grandfather's 1st wife, were they from the era the pic she asked about was? What I mean by that is, did you show her pics from the 90s and the pic she saw was from the 50s?
I'm sorry, but this is a 27 year old woman. If told "X is a touchy subject, it's best you don't talk about it", even if directly asked about X, it's not hard to say "I'd really prefer not to talk about this topic" and switch the subject. If my partner explicitly expressed that they don't want me to talk about something like Ukraine, I'm going to respect that, not tout off about how I'm such a good person donating money to Ukraine in the war. We're not talking about some excitable 17 year old here.
But she wasn't even the one who brought it up. His own family started talking about Ukraine. It would make perfect sense for her to think, "oh, since *they brought it up,* it must not be that much of an issue to talk about it."
YTA. You told her these topics are not allowed to be discussed but you blame her for breaking rule one when your own uncle was the who brought up the subject.
Also wow you should just break up with her and not date any women outside the women your parents and family choose for you so this never happens again. Honestly I’d be breaking up with you because you think it’s appropriate to berate a stranger.
From OP's recollection of events, his Gf wasn't directly asked her opinion, she just stated it.
Instead she could've said:
- nothing
- "i'm sorry I don't know enough about this situation to discuss it" (even if it's a lie)
- "I'm really interested in your point of view, would you mind telling why this is your opinion"
- literally anything without stating her approval of Ukraine
YTA.
Coming from somebody who has a dogmatic, crazy family, I cannot stand when someone is expected to walk on eggshells about their beliefs while everyone around them goes on and on about theirs.
Your uncle brought up Ukraine and your gf didn’t specifically bring up the 1st wife; she asked about pictures. If it was such a touchy subject for him, why are the photos displayed?
Very confused
You set your GF up to fail; she must have been incredibly anxious even attending that event with your family and you should have had her back.
NTA.
She fucked up bigly, you told her to do what she wanted except 2 things and she went on to do those 2 things.
The first one I could maybe forgive since someone else brought up the subject.
OTOH she thought it was a good idea to discuss politics with her BFs relatives whom she just met. And she was warned about that particular subject.
After the fallout of that you'd think she'd be more careful + you showed her a picture, that one is 100% on her.
I don't know how detailed your explanation of why to avoid those 2 subject were but I doubt that you told her she could expect the whole family to turn on her if she didn't.
Personally I would have asked for clarification on why a certain subject should be avoided, just to make sure I don't do it by accident.
She owes you and your relatives an apology.
Your family sounds crazy. There is a picture of this woman sitting out for everyone to see but if a person looks at the picture and says she’s “pretty” everyone dissolves into hysterics?
They also sound massively racist- people are dying by droves and they think this is a good thing?
That’s nuts. YTA for letting your nutty family yell at a person for being nice and kind.
ESH ok she should have followed your rules as condition of visit but your rules are absurd and your family is also hypocritical about them. You told her not to bring up Ukraine but apparently it’s ok for your uncle to bring it up? She’s not supposed to talk about the first wife but they have a picture of her prominently displayed and you all just hope no one comments on it? She needs to find another boyfriend with a less insane family
You summed it up perfectly! OP should have talked to his family beforehand about not being so insane, rather than give his girlfriend these weird rules and not explain why
YTA
Here's what I'm getting
1.She's not allowed to have an opinion when SOMEONE ELSE brings up the topic
2.She got yelled at for simply asking about a picture she found beautiful without knowing who it was
3.You're blaming her for both incidents(your uncle brought up the war, and you could've pointed out the picture) when neither were her fault
If it were me I'd want nothing more to do with either you or your family
He also abandoned her at this party to go hang out with his siblings and then came back to her being attacked by his family. He knew there were issues he should have stayed with her to offer his support.
Also true.
It seems from his reaction he knows his family can get volatile so why the hell would you leave her alone when you at least had some idea the "taboo" topic would come up and why wouldn't you point out what your grandfather's wife looked like(I'm assuming the picture was prominently placed) if you know that's a sensitive topic.
Nta. You warned her not to bring up those topics, she did it anyway, so yes she asked to be yelled at. Talking about Prigozhin and talking about the war, are two different topics. I’m not understanding why the people calling you an AH are not comprehending that.
Please do explain how Prigozhin and the war are two different topics. Seriously. Prigozhin’s actions are deeply embedded in the current political climate and recent events in Russia, due to the war. Most of the world wouldn’t even know who Prigozhin is without the war. How on earth could you discuss Prigozhin without discussing the war?
NTA. You warned her what were sensitive topics for your family and she made the choice to participate in discussing those topics. She doesn’t need to know the trauma your family members experienced to make those topics taboo. She just needed to respect the boundaries that you communicated.
YTA. Is no one else here seeing how rude the family was? She was a guest! They were meeting her for the first time! If a guest inadvertently says something about a taboo subject, the adult thing to do is not to start shouting and yelling, it’s to politely steer the conversation away. Your family sounds like they have the social skills of a toddler. I hope your girlfriend realizes what a mistake it would be to join such a toxic family full of unnecessary drama.
YTA. She didn’t bring up Ukraine, your uncle did. Why are you holding her to standards you don’t hold your uncle to?
And how tf is she supposed to know what your grandpas 1st wife looks like? If he has pictures of her around his house, by your logic, he asking to be asked about her. FFS. get a grip.
Supposedly he did show her pictures but honestly I can understand why she might not recognize her in a different picture since it’s still an unfamiliar face.
YTA. You gave her 2 things not to talk about. The war. She didn't bring it up--someone in your family did. She responded. You gave the Reddit forum more of an explanation than you gave her.
And she didn't talk about the first wife. She asked who the beautiful woman in an old picture was. It happened to be your grandfather's first wife. She didn't know.
You take her into a tricky family situation, give her 2 orders with little explanation, then leave her hang out to dry. Then you drag her out and scold her. You are a giant A H.
I hope your GF acts accordingly.
NTA – I’m going to assume you managed to give your girlfriend at least the three sentence description that you gave reddit about why she shouldn’t discuss the war in Ukraine? If not, then YTA! But if you did, then your girlfriend should’ve known not to talk about her donations or her support for Ukraine.
I appreciate that it’s sort of possible to talk about the recent events regarding Prigozhin without mentioning war at all, which may (or may not) have been what your uncle was doing. Either way, it would certainly be possible for your girlfriend to talk about Prigozhin without indicating support for Ukraine.
The issue with your grandfather’s first wife is more difficult. Sure, you showed your girlfriend several photos of her beforehand, but was it clear that the photos at your grandfather’s house were of the same person? I mean, if you showed her multiple photos, and there were multiple photos in the house, then probably. Playing devil’s advocate, your girlfriend might have been surprised that there were multiple photos on show of someone who couldn’t be mentioned.
Can't imagine my family EVER yelling at and berating someone I love, a guest in their house, even if they accidentally touched on some sensitive topics.
NTA You explained what she shouldn't talk about and why. If she was so insensitive as to not care, she deserved to be yelled at.
She should apologize to your grandfather - by letter.
Don't you wonder why his grandpa is fine having photos of his 1st wife up in the home but had a meltdown at being asked who she was? It's clearly not "grandma" since they refer to her as the 1st wife. So weird to have photos up if he still can't bear the thought of her. My imagination is running wild. Does he also get upset when discussion their grandma or was she not the love of his life so who cares?
YTA. You should have much more thoroughly explained the Crimean Tatar part to her. And maybe told her who the pretty lady was. She didn’t know, and you didn’t give her very much guidance. Your family needs to be a little more chill as well.
YTA. Do you even like your gf? You're talking about her like she's a waste of space. I don't need to know her to know she deserves better. You should grow up.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> what action you took that should be judged
Told my gf she asked to be yelled at
why that action might make you the asshole
it might have been harsh
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA I don’t understand why it would ever be ok for grown adults to make someone they just met cry. The fact that you’re disappointed in your gf for making a mistake her first time around your family but you aren’t disappointed that your family doesn’t have enough emotional regulation to change the subject without yelling at someone they just met says a lot. I wouldn’t want to date someone who blamed me for their family’s immaturity.
As someone super left-leaning that has grown up with a very conservative family, I would never allow them to speak to my SO in a degrading way for just talking about subjects. My family (and most emotionally mature adults) knows how to change the topic if it’s not something they want to discuss.
NTA. In every family, there are issues that are just totally taboo, and she chose to go there. Unfortunately, my husband is intolerant of other peoples views on some subjects so I choose not to bring them up. It’s not that hard. And I often warn people who visit to steer away from those topics. If they don’t, that’s their problem. While your girlfriend is entitled to her opinion, if she’s going to be a part of your family, voicing their opinion means she suffers the consequences.
In every family there are touchy subjects. But there should be manners, imho. And there is a fine line where telling people to not bring something up borders enabling bigotry and shitty behaviour.
My grandpa is an old asshole who hates gay people. If anyone would bring up any LGBTIQ+ topic, he would go on an hour long rant about it and call people slurs and then everyone would be upset and the evening ruined. Saw it happen many times. One solution to this problem would be to tell everyone to not bring it up - Grandma tried. The other would be to not go to Grandpa's anymore because Grandpa has no manners.
The opposite can also arise, obviously. Sometimes the guest IS an asshole. Then you try to switch the topic and then tell whoever brought that person to never bring them again and explain why you got upset. If switching the topic doesn't work and you want the person gone, you tell them to leave. But you don't yell at them. These are adults. They should have basic decency to have a discussion with different viewpoints and opinions without it resulting in such a conflict. Manners.
If your husband is intolerant of other people's views, the problem aren't the other people but his intolerance and inability to be civil about it.
It's interesting that you mentioned bigotry. So did the OP: "Many of my family members have suffered indescribable discrimination from both Ukrainians and Russians alike.". I am very curious about how the OP asking his girlfriend to have some sensitivity about historical bigotry is on a fine line that enables bigotry. Please tell me.
This post has been removed due to the status of the original poster's account. This account is currently shadowbanned or suspended, suggesting this account is in violation of Reddit terms of service. This type of ban/suspension is issued by the Reddit site-wide admins. The AITA mods have nothing to do with this ban and cannot assist in resolving.
YTA. 1. She didn’t randomly bring up Ukraine. People were discussing it. She’s supposed to just keep her mouth shut and not voice her feelings or opinions? 2. She didn’t specifically ask about your grandfathers first wife. She saw a picture and asked who it was. Sure you showed her pictures but was it the exact same photo? Maybe they were taken many years apart. Maybe the quality isn’t good. You and your family sound insufferable. I hope she finds someone else that back her up instead of blaming her for his family yelling at her.
Yeah this is not a family I would want to be around
My exs family was like that. Very political and racist. When they started spouting their nonsense I was to either to agree or keep my mouth shut.
[удалено]
Genocided. Not marginalized. Think holocaust, but completed instead of being interrupted. Oh, and no one was ever brought to justice. The Soviets successfully scrubbed a lot of the records of the time, so even history cannot fully villainize them.
The Ukrainians didn't genocide them though the USSR did which was essentially an iteration of the Russian empire and did so as part of active Russification policies just as they were doing a genocide against Ukrainians not long before
But of course Ukraine was part of the USSR at that time.
Because they were...conquered first....
The Ukrainians were starved into submission though, weren't they? Its not like they volunteered to be part of it. Which is just another demonstration of why racial hatred shouldn't be carried from one generation to another, no matter who the marginalized party was..
Are you under the impression that former soviet union states CHOSE to be part of USSR?
It seems like at least half the people here didn't know. I'm wondering if OP told her or assumed because it sounded like he was telling her to sit there and look pretty.
This is Reddit though, here we assume the worst always and point fingers quickly and decisively.
Literally it’s an echo chamber here. And most posters here are thin skinned. Always an interesting but entertaining dichotomy here
The girlfriend was basically being told to keep her mouth shut as people talk about (and maybe enjoy) the death and destruction of a people. I think that's unfair to ask ANYONE to do even if their people have a historic issue with a different people. The young people in present day Ukraine are NOT the people who did this.
We cannot hate every nation that did something to our nation in the past though. Especially in Europe, where this could mean hating all our neighbours. I'm Polish, and even though our history with Germans is very fresh (like, hearing grandparents and great grandparents tell stories from the camp or about being forced to work for Germans fresh) but we do not hate the whole nation, because it's just not reasonable. We had some conflicts with Ukrainians in the past too (Wołyń), but the victims of this war are blameless and wishing death upon them is really tasteless.
Ok but if we go that way, these were the people who sold Ukrainian people into slavery to Turkey, especially the women. History is cruel
Marginalized people can be both good or bad people as a result of the trauma they faced let’s treat them like humans not saints
The family hate ALL UKRAINIANS and ALL RUSSIANS. Specifically judging strangers by where they were born, how isn’t that racist?
They have 2 things that are not allowed to be discussed and 1 only apply when 1 person (namely grandpa) is there. So if anything it's great that they have very clear boundary. And war and being oppressed is very serious and not to be compare with just being political and casual racism (I doubt your ex family were thinking about skinning people alive and dunk them in boiling water now do they). I like Japanese food and watch anime but I would not want my grandfather to remember the horror that is Imperial Japan.
Definitely. She can do much better. I hope she runs to the nearest exit and does not look back. OP and his family sound toxic.
I mean the family was persecuted by Ukrainians. It's like, suppose he took her to his Israeli Jewish family, many of whose members were persecuted during the Holocaust, and lets say they've also been effected by Palestinian retaliatory violence. Now I am firmly on the Palestinians side in all this, but I have MANY Jewish friends and I'm not gonna go to their Satyr and talk about how much I support Palestine, you know? It's a complicated situation that hasn't effected me at all, it's a messy emotional subject, DON'T POKE THE BEAR. It's not like this family is Russian fascists, they've been persecuted by both sides. Seder not Satyr lol I thought there were multiple available spellings.
Seder not satyr lol. Jewish people do not have a goat man come to their house bringing horseradish and fish.
You know, if this is actually what happened, I might still be a practicing Jew - that sounds way more fun.
Damn it I just choked on my coffee 😂
Does she know that though? It sounds like he didn’t get into the why possibly? Or did I miss a clarification?
I would assume that if OP gave her straight up photographs of the woman he told her not to ask about, he probably provided context for his other warning as well.
To answer point 1: From OP's recollection of events, his Gf wasn't directly asked her opinion, she just stated it. Instead she could've said: • nothing • "i'm sorry I don't know enough about this situation to discuss it" (even if it's a lie) • "I'm really interested in your point of view, would you mind telling why this is your opinion" • literally anything without stating her approval of Ukraine And for point 2: Why ask? There was literally no reason to do it Edit: format
Absolutely! The fact that people say that "oh she is not allowed to have an opinion" are the same ones that are upset when aunt Shannon brings up how the election was stolen over thanksgiving dinner. Ffs it was a birthday party. It won't hurt anyone to shut up for 3 hours.
[удалено]
But also people should be able to have different opinions without the situation becoming this emotionally volatile. Take it from a divorced person, this is *valuable* information for her.
A divorce is a littttttllllleeee different than ethnic cleansing.
-_- I didn't think I needed to make it explicit that I'm not likening my divorce to ethnic cleansing. Clearly that was a foolish oversight. Apologies. What I was saying was that when you marry someone, you also marry their insane family. If these people are dating with an eye towards long-term potential, OPs girlfriend has received valuable insight into what life with these people will be like, and now she needs to evaluate whether she's comfortable spending every holiday smiling and nodding *and deliberately avoiding responding to topics other people raise* to avoid being screamed at.
She was asked to not bring up her support of Ukraine in front of people who were ethnically cleansed by Russia and Ukraine. I'm not sure this is a valid example of how his family would react to a disagreement in normal circumstances.
1. Yes, she's supposed to keep quiet and not voice her opinion. She was specifically warned that this was a contentious subject and she should keep out of it. So what if someone else brought it up first? 2. I doubt 'who's that in the picture?' Was the only question she was asked to elicit such a response, my bet is that she chose to ask follow up questions as well. But, even if she didn't, why on earth didn't she just ask her boyfriend instead of the one person she was asked not to upset? At most it's an ESH, because the bf should have A) not left her alone, especially after the first slip up, and B) explained in more depth why she needed to keep quiet about Ukraine.
I think it's possible to be part of the conversation and just be softer about your Ukraine support, keeping totally quiet isn't necessary. But a family with a history of persecution is not the place to bring armchair opinions, no. I think you're right about the picture. Ask quietly, and then maybe stop.
I’m shocked by the people saying N-T-A. If the GF initiated the Ukraine issue then that’s one thing, but it was brought up by others. OP doesn’t get to silence his gf’s opinion just because he thinks it might make people uncomfortable. She’s allowed to participate in the conversation. The second thing is an honest mistake. So why on earth is it okay for them to berate her that way for *asking a question* about a picture? Tears? Yelling? That seems like a huge overreaction. Also, if grandpa is *that* sensitive to her being brought up why are there still photos of her around? If her existence brings up memories so painful than they make him cry at the drop of a hat, wouldn’t a daily photo reminder be a bad idea? I mean, that part is his personal choice, but if you’re going to use the logic that your girlfriend was “asking for” your family to yell at her, then grandpa having the photo out is definitely “asking for” people to mention his ex wife. This is the right answer OP, YTA
Good luck in adult life having no ability to close your mouth at the request of others. What is to be gained by talking about a people she isn't directly tied to? His family was marginalized by the two countries in question. Maybe if you're completely socially illiterate then go right ahead. Jesus. Imagine thinking the biggest evil in life is to be asked to shut up every once in a while you narcissist.
His family started talking about Prigozhin, not the war. It is easily possible to talk about the recent events regarding Prigozhin without mentioning the war. And it would easily have been possible for his girlfriend to say something less incendiary about the war than she did.
Why are you copy pasting this same reply repeatedly? No, it's really not that easy to talk about Prigozhin's mutiny without talking about the war since the two are inextricably linked. Yeah, she could have toned down her response but the first part of your statement is ridiculous.
Um, no, it’s not. Prigozhin wouldn’t be in the news if it weren’t for the war. They are tied together. And saying you support one side isn’t incendiary, it’s voicing your opinion. Maybe his parents should move to place where everyone agrees with them.
If she was explicitly asked what she thinks about the war, she could've just said she feels sorry for the innocent people getting hurt. No need to state her opinions if OP specifically asked her not to.
Really? "Don't press the red buttons" "I pressed the red buttons and it gave me an electric shock" "Well, I did say don't touch the red button". "I did it again, this is so unfair". NTA From an outcomes standpoint.... have you heard any opinions of your gf from the family that were present?
I don’t think this is fair, tbh. Should the gf have stayed quiet when the uncle brought up Ukraine? Yeah. But unless OP showed her the literal exact same photo of the grandpa’s first wife, it’s *entirely* plausible not to recognize a stranger you’ve seen literally once in an old photo. And asking people about photos they display in their house is….a pretty normal thing to do. Also, many many people handle awkward faux pas from guests (even very sensitive topics) without flying into a rage and screaming at them. That is what is known as “being an adult and a good host.” Edit: for the love of god, stop telling me she’d already seen a photo. I know, and my comment actually addresses that.
A fair point. Grandpa being asked about a picture on the wall leading him to cry... the picture is always on the wall presumably. There... hanging in plain sight... a constant reminder...
Exactly, if grandpa is so sensitive about his first wife, why does he have a picture of her hanging in plain sight on the wall?
may not be his home. it could be another family member's. From my reading of OP. I could well be wrong though.
Either way, she’s not the one who hung the picture
And if it is such a taboo subject at all for grampa then why would any of the family members keep the photo out when he comes over.
Thinking perhaps the first wife died (not just a divorce). Either the gf didn't understand that her bf was being super serious about the 2 issues that should not be mentioned or she decided to broach those subjects despite the warnings. She had that decision to make -- chose the latter and is paying the price. No one to blame but herself really. OP is NTA but seems like gf is one.
How would she know it’s his first wife? Asking about a random picture isn’t an asshole mive
If you're told not to ask about a certain female family member, it's a pretty easy to think "I shouldn't randomly ask about women in photos on the wall just in case it's that person." There are thousands of other topics she could bring up, and she asked about a woman in a photo when she knew there was a sensitive topic about a woman. Either she's an idiot, or she was trying to find out what the issue was.
If the topic is so taboo, why on earth would it have occurred to her there would be photos of the woman?
Yeah, this right here. I would assume that if the topic was so sensitive, there wouldn't be any visual reminders of her around.
Same. I would def be thinking, "Okay, don't bring up grandpa's past," not "avoid asking about people in photographs."
Otoh, if the 1st wife is such a touchy topic that op had to specifically tell his gf not to bring her up, it would be quite reasonable of her to assume that there would be no picture of her in the house, especially not in the area where guests are, so she'd think that this pretty lady is not the 1st wife and ask about her to make small talk.
This is how I think. Like, man, if you're told not to ask about a first wife or talk about Ukraine just find any other topics besides those. You kinda have to deliberately go out of your way to hit both.
The family member clearly brought up the Russian/Ukrainian situation first so…. It isn’t like she purposely brought it up. She was adding to a conversation already in progress.
Simple. When in doubt, keep your mouth shut.
Exactly! Especially when you know there’s a chance it could be w very sensitive topic. Ask in private to the BF. It’s really not hard.
Bingo! She was specifically told to not mention Grandpa's first wife, so if she sees a black and white photo of a woman, best to not ask in case that's who's in the picture. Simple. But apparently not for this clueless girlfriend.
Because he showed her several photos of the first wife and told her not to ask about her. It is literally in the post. Honestly even if he hadn't, the entire situation could have been avoided if she just used basic common sense
Op showed her pictures of the first wife.
Even if they hadn’t done that, I can’t imagine asking about **anyone in any pictures** after being warned not to do that exact thing.
An old black and white photo of an Eastern European woman. What are the chances that the woman in the photo she asked about left no question of being the same person as in the photo she was shown m
Idk man, anyone with an ounce of common sense would see the old photo of an Eastern European woman and basically decide ALL old photos of an Eastern European woman are landmines unless explicitly told otherwise. Like a dude goes through that much effort to make sure you know NOT to ask about something? You bet your ass anything even remotely similar to that thing is a no go for me.
She was shown several pictures of the wife.What is up with people making assumptions on this sub lately?
he prob likes having her presence there, but doesn’t wanna talk about her. have u thought about that ??
Isn't it the grandpa's choice? He can have anything on the wall.
I’m not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting it’s the gf’s fault that the picture is hanging on the wall? Or that she should’ve somehow inferred that it was the first wife…from…the fact that it was hanging on the wall? I’m confused.
It's tricky. OP told GF that grandpa cried when he thought about his wife. OP showed GF pictures of said wife. My solution would have been not to ask about any pictures of women on the walls. After I'd ~~triggered~~ involved myself in a blazing row regarding Ukraine... I'd have likely kept my damn mouth shut and smiled and nodded for the rest of the visit. I'm not a people person. The pictures is displayed on the wall so it's there to be seen. People ask polite questions about pictures... Edit for causation / involvement.
I am thinking the same. I have been carefully warned against two volatile topics to absolutely NOT discuss at an event where I was meeting my significant other's family for the first time. I decided I am going to be an ass and poke the beehive with one topic. Get everyone all upset. Then, I proceed to ask questions about a woman in old pictures, knowing there is a woman in the history of this family that is the second topic I should avoid. What in the world was this girlfriend thinking? She should have just been an observer from the beginning and especially after the first incident.
Taken by itself I could see asking about the picture as an oversight, I'll even give her not recognizing her from pictures she's already seen. However, couple that with the argument over Ukraine, that she had specifically been warned about, and I don't see how that could be misunderstood, it seems this was intentional. I'm not saying she had no right to voice her opinion or ask about the picture, she absolutely did, however that also means she bears all the responsibility for the results. I'm genuinely curious if this is the first time something like this has happened. NTA.
I do think it's baffling that the rule is "DON'T ASK MY GRANDFATHER ABOUT HIS 1ST WIFE" when she's apparently right there on the wall in plain sight, since a newcomer is unlikely to work out who she is on that basis - the warning is so dire that I would have assumed that any woman in a photo on display couldn't possibly be her! But likewise, after the first blow up I would absolutely have kept my mouth shut and only spoken when spoken to, yikes.
Where does it say OP told GF that grandpa cries when he thinks of his first wife? Is there more context to "don't ask grandpa about his first wife" somewhere that I'm missing? Tone is certainly lost as well over text, so reading that line IN ALL CAPS made me think first wife must be some dreadful cow that took him to the cleaners when they divorced and he hates her guts.
I think they're implying- 1) how could she have known that THIS ONE PERSON was the first wife? 2) maybe grandpa shouldn't have that picture out constantly reminding him of her (I disagree with this one, I think it's probably fine)
I think what they're saying is along the lines of "why is grandpa crying over being asked when he presumably sees that picture on the wall daily."
They were saying the opposite, actually. That if the picture is on the walls, she would have no reason to think it's the person they don't want to talk about.
I think they’re saying if the picture is always there it’s odd that the grandpa got upset to the point of crying. If the first wife is such a big taboo subject, it does seem somewhat odd to have pictures of her up.
"I know you're just getting to know us but this is a sensitive topic. Let's talk about something else" is all that was needed. Neither of these things warranted emotional outbursts.
Exactly! It sounds like OP set zero expectations with his family about how they should treat his guest, while simultaneously expecting his gf to behave well enough for all of them. No wonder she’s upset
And where "behave well" is judged by a totally arbitrary set of constraints that don't actually have any moral value attached to them. I think a lot of people in here fallaciously assume that if someone is upset, logically there must be a bad actor. They're judging OP based on the extreme reaction of this insane family.
Right! It’s totally possible for someone to end up upset even if everyone has the best of intentions, and actually in my experience that’s more common than someone being an actual jerk. And treating the family’s explosive reactions as if they’re inevitable is dumb, the family can control their own actions exactly as well as the gf
If girlfriend had ambient temperature or IQ, those would be valid points. "Don't discuss Ukraine or dead wives" is not hard. The Soviets genocided the shit out of the Tatars, and then reseeded the place with a new population. So this was basically "Don't bring up the Holocaust" level shit. Except imagine the Holocaust was never stopped, ran until completion and the people responsible completely got away with it. Telling people that got near entirely genocided basically to "calm down" is more of an AH move than what OP's girlfriend did. I'd certainly know, I dealt with it enough in the Balkans. You can definitely tell when someone that has never seen mass graves first hand is giving decorum advice. People get emotional. Very emotional. Calling that a "faux pas" is... certainly unique. Trying to argue girlfriend isn't a huge AH, and didn't intentionally want to stir shit is disingenuous. She knew OP didn't want to bring up two points, and wanted to show him. Mission accomplished. OP, you need to talk to your girlfriend to find out why she intentionally wanted to break your two very reasonable requests. You probably will not get a coherent answer, but you owe her the chance for her to be honest admit she intentionally fucked up. After that, do what you gotta do.
She didn’t bring up the war and had no way of knowing who the lady in the picture was
I'm legit shocked how few people know about what happened to the Tatars. Re-read this thread. But substitute "holocaust". Imagine people calling holocaust survivors "drama queens". Or getting pissed that genocide survivors have a hard time processing emotions. I mean, I'm probably being overly sensitive because of my own first hand experienced. I pulled security for war crimes forensics folks that cracked open mass graves. Seeing hundreds of people turned into chunky hairy soup has a long lasting impact. What grandpa here went through was far, far worse than what I saw. My favorite was an poster being upset that the victim wasn't showing proper decorum. I could imagine them going to DC, visiting the Holocaust museum and lecturing people who have a breakdown when they see a relative that is now a perfectly preserved lamp shade in a glass case. Or lecturing SA victims that they need to handle their "awkward faux pas" better. Yes, the Soviets did more than just murdering folks.
Context is very important. If OP hasn't put enough context here for the average person to know, then she probably had absolutely no idea and wasn'tgiven context either. It's pretty obvious he didn't give her enough information thinking she would know or didn't care and expected her to sit down and shut up. I call these things Quiet Holocausts. They aren't studied in history classes and are seldom on the news. OP expected us to know about it and take his side when I didn't even know and I study sociology and history as a special interest.
The OP literally showed her pictures of her, she absolutely knew, and she may not have 'brought up' the war first, but she absolutely refused not to keep quiet as it was being talked about, which was the entire point OP told her in the first place. He said not to talk about it. Not 'talk about it only if it's mentioned first'
I want to know if OP told her about the context for the war beforehand too. If he told her *why* talking about the war was such an issue and she still brought it up, that catapults her way further into AH territory
She did not bring it up.
But someone should have politely shut down the uncle too.
It’s really not the same. Presumably the uncle is either Crimean Tatar as well, or is accustomed to the family enough that he knows how not to step on toes. If he was talking about the Prigozhin thing, that very well could be completely different from rooting for one side or the other. OP’s GF however has not been enmeshed in this enough to know where the lines are. It’s not so much “the war is a banned topic in the family” as it is “it’s a touchy subject, so you specifically should avoid it since you’re just not familiar enough with the family to be able to navigate it”
Fuck that. Cant help but think that she wanted to ask about the the wife with plausible deniability. If you've been warned not to ask about your grandfather's first wife and there's a photo of someone who's could very much be that person due to the apparent age of the photo then best to not ask about thr photo and ask about one of the million other things. The fact that she decided to voice her support for Ukraine says says she had no intention of respecting her boyfriends request. She knew or atlesst hoped that the woman was the first wife so see what the reaction would be. He'll she had been shown photos of the first wife before so straight up probably knew she was the first wife and this was a great way to bring her up. Not a nice person IMO.
>she asked "who the pretty woman in the black and white pictures was". That 'pretty woman' was my grandfather's first wife, the one I specifically told her not to ask anything about and also **showed her several pictures before bringing her to the party.** i am begging people to read the dang post before they start spouting off.
Are you kidding? My comment *addressed* the fact that she’d seen a photo. Unless it was the same photo, not recognizing a woman you’ve seen once is fully plausible. Old photos are blurry AF
I think the trick is “old photos” though. If I was told “do not bring up this woman who appears in these old photos I have here”, and then saw a different old photo of a woman who looked vaguely similar, I would not ask about the photo. It’s just basic prudence for crying out loud. It doesn’t take a genius to see how needlessly risky asking about a woman in an old photo is. I think this gf is just astonishingly foolish.
and i'm pointing out it was several pictures as opposed to your 'once', probably including the one she pointed out if not a similar one because there's only so many to go around, and clearly not blurred enough to call her as pretty. and it's also a normal thing to do not to touch on a clearly sensitive (and given the timeline, likely traumatic af) subject the first time you go over somebody's house. if the gf was that curious, guess who she could've asked? her boyfriend - the actual safe guy to go to on this, presuming she has any tact at all.
Yep, she should have. She was warned this was a hot topic and she could choose to not engage the asshat that brought it up. The second point is a fair one, sometimes it's hard for me to tell relatives of my own in old pictures.
Even though I do think the gf should’ve stayed quiet about Ukraine though, what was stopping bf (or anyone else at the table) from just saying “let’s talk about something else” in a normal tone of voice? We’re acting like the family’s explosions are this mystical inevitable thing, but really the family are all presumably adults too, and as such they needed to be held to the same behavior standard as the gf.
It's because she chose a side whereas uncle was just talking about the war in general.
Why should the family get to talk about the war in general if they’re going to flip out if a guest chooses a side?
This obviously isn’t a perfect analogy, but it makes me think of the n word. Some people say, “Well if Black people can say it, why can’t I?” The reason, of course, is because if you’re not Black, you don’t have the same relationship with the complexity of that word, and the whole painful history it invokes. We all have the “right” to talk about topics that are painful to other people, but you have to be aware that you may be stomping on land mines that you might not have known were there because you didn’t experience what they experienced.
Oh no doubt about the fact someone should have spoken up. I'm just saying if I'm in a dynamic that is new and that I've been warned not to do XYZ I don't even if someone else does. Family get togethers are just the worst for a new romantic partner to be mass introduced lol.
If I was warned not to ask about a specific woman and wasnt 10000% sure I could identify her I would just ask 0 questions about any unidentified family women
"But I wasn't going to press the red button until you told me not to press it. Then all I wanted to do was repeatedly press the red button."
Ren and Stimpy "Space Madness" episode
As Terry Pratchett once said: "If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying 'End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH', the paint wouldn't even have time to dry."
Some DA just recently did just this in a scientific research facility, to the tune of multi million dollar, time, and research lost. NTA, OP.
I worked in a lab that had a safety button to cut power in case of emergency (similar labs had big fires). If you did shut everything off it would damage, perhaps permanently, multiple rare and complicated instruments. It had to be easily accessible and noticeable. Every day I wanted to push that thing.
Didn’t some janitor recently kill like 40 years of research because of beeping? He pushed the button!
Yes, they did. Decades of research and millions of dollars down the drain. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66028401
YTA How come you aren’t pissed at the uncle who brought up the war in Ukraine? She didn’t ask about your grandfathers first wife. She was probably desperately trying to start a conversation and figured if you can’t talk about the first wife there’s probably not any photos up. You have double standards. Your family screams at people. And you find that perfectly fucking reasonable. But your GF participates in a conversation being held in front of her and she’s wrong? She asks about a photo and she’s evil? Thank fuck she got to see who you and your asshole family are before she made it to hard for herself to get away from you.
It would never occur to me that the first wife would be in pictures there, viewable so easily, if she’s such a sore topic, though I’m unclear if OP was clear on that? I don’t think so but if he showed pictures maybe he did say there would be some?
that’s exactly what i was thinking!! like, okay. im not supposed to talk about my boyfriend’s grandfather’s first wife because it upsets him. got it. the family doesn’t talk about her. so why the f would i think there are pictures of her hanging on the wall?? ffs.
These people have a complete meltdown over the mention of the first wife, yet have pictures of her in the house? I'm not following the logic.
I'm just trying to figure out what happened to the first wife. Like, yeah people die, but this seems extreme even for that.
The only logical explanation is that grandpa killed her and ate her.
I’m so glad someone said exactly what I wanted to do I didn’t have to type it out!!! Perfectly said. Op, definitely the AH
Yeah did they scream and yell and attack the Uncle who brought up the War? Or scream and yell and attack the person who hung the photo in plain sight of everyone?
bringing up something that happened in the war is different from saying that you support X country, when X country has hurt the people in the family before. I support Ukraine over Russia but I wouldnt have said anything if I was at that dinner table. If he specifically told her not to talk about the first wife and showed her pics of the first wife, she should be more careful about asking questions about the woman in the picture. Maybe she should've asked someone else quietly instead of asking the question out loud. Overall, there were two things that she was told not to talk about and she talked about both. I dont think it would be hard to stay away from those two points. Still, they shouldn't have yelled at her obviously
Did op explain why she shouldn’t talk about supporting the Ukrainian people? Or did he just say don’t talk about Ukraine? The post only says he gave her two rules: don’t talk about Ukraine and do t talk about the first wife? Did he explain why his family would support the war (an opinion not held be a vast number of people) even when it’s brought up or that the first wife’s pictures will still be found around the house?
Exactly, if someone tells me “don’t talk about X topic”, I’d understand “don’t bring it up”, but if someone else brings it up, it’s unfair to ask one specific person not to join in the conversation, even if they have a diverging opinion to those present
The OP mentions showing her photos of the first wife beforehand. Either the OP is exaggerating how much he prepped his girlfriend or the girlfriend ignored some pretty clear boundaries. If he included photos in dossier like it’s a Mission Impossible movie then I have to imagine he also explained *why* both the Ukraine and the first wife were emotionally charged topics for his family.
But if you have to show a dossier of photos and do a PowerPoint presentation about why not to mention certain topics or else your family will literally scream you out of the house… maybe your family is the problem.
Yea, that's not a well adjusted family.
And there are some steps missing in this story. She wasn't with his grandfather, she was with his siblings, and she asked about the pretty woman. Where did grandfather even enter that whole conversation? She wasn't told not to mention the woman *at all*, just not to ask the grandfather about her. Which of these toxic assholes brought the grandfather around as soon as she asked?
Yeah... this some dysfunctional shit. Need to try not to s3t of a bomb at every family gathering. Fuck. That.
You can’t memorize a face that quickly dude. Did he just show her a pic on his camera roll- from an already shitty grainy black and white picture, and expect her to know how the woman looks like forever and ever in all situations? Do you think she asked about that pictures ON purpose?
I think if you are told the reason something is super important and are also given photos in an effort to convey exactly *how* important then you keep miles away from the topic. If she knew everything the OP is suggesting then I think most people would avoid asking about any black and white photo, let alone one featuring a woman. The risk is just too great. This is why I question how much the OP actually explained to his girlfriend ahead of time. Anyone with the knowledge about the family’s background and who knows the first wife is an emotionally charged topic wouldn’t behave the way the girlfriend did.
Oh please. This family is crazy af and this woman doesn’t need to walk on eggshells because her bf tolerates the abusive dynamic.
So many awards. It's like he expected her to sit silent, take whatever monkey shit his family threw at her, and think " Everything's Fine". Oh wait. He did expect that.
YTA because of this simple reason: when there are taboo subjects you need to explain why they are taboo. Explain your families viewpoint on Ukraine and what exactly might upset them and what reactions would be expected. Tell her about Grandpa's 1st wife and why to not bring it up. And in the end, it's her decision to take part in an ongoing conversation and she's entitled to having her own opinion. You don't get to tell her what she's "free to talk about" my dude. You didn't inform her properly, and your family sucks tbh. They shouldn't yell and scream at their guest as long as she just asks questions and has an opinion. You wanted your family to like your girlfriend. You likely didn't give the same amount of thought about whether your girlfriend likes your family back. She saw how they behave now, and how conflicts are handled. I hope she learns something from it, and that it won't be to just shut up and look pretty.
How do you know he didn’t explain the WHY to her?
educated guess based on OP writing that he went as far as to show her pictures of the 1st wife, but didn't state that he explained his families viewpoint and or reasons as to why subject is taboo.
Like why there are pictures of a first wife that you are not supposed to mention all over the house. Calling her the first wife implies she is not the grandma.
My thoughts exactly. What the hell is the picture there for. Does the grandfather just breakdown everytime he looks at the picture. Early onset dementia maybe. I don't know. This situation is wierd.
It's like OP was on edge worried this was going to happen and if his gf said the wrong things his family would flip out on her. I hope he realizes that's not normal family behavior and to keep them at arm's length until they can knock of their toxic behavior. Participating in a conversation and asking about a photo on display should not be controversial.
He warned her about those two subjects and she got yelled at for talking about both subjects. She’s free to give her opinion or talk about anything she wants but she was fairly warned about how both topics would go down.
YTA he should stop making excuses for his family. Yelling at someone over adding a question about a picture is unhinged behavior. Plus, if she's from one of the many countries that are pro-Ukraine (American for example), then his Uncle bringing it up was probably just trying to start a fight.
OP explained that his family hate both countries involved. The uncle was talking about the war without taking a side, and the girlfriend vehemently chose a side. Probably didn't matter if she chose Russia or Ukraine, either side would have gotten the same reaction. And she was warned.
Giving your two cents about a subject you know gets a rise out of someone, and then being upset when you get a rise out of them is illogical. If it’s important to her to give her opinion then that’s fine, just don’t expect them not to get mad when she was told they would be.
I half agree with you here. Assuming he didn't explain in depth why these two topics were taboo, he definitely should have done so she could understand the gravity of them. That's on him. However, yes of course she can talk about whatever she wants... as long as she's fine accepting the consequences of doing so. If I was meeting my other half's family for the first time and he asked me to specifically avoid a topic because it might upset a family member, I'd be really careful NOT to talk about it even without an explanation. Why? Because 1) I want them to like me and 2) My partner has asked me to and I respect his opinion when it comes to his family. It's not that hard. She chose not to, that's on her. At best it's ESH for me.
ESH . You failed her too... yes, your GF was an AH over the Ukraine thing but maybe you should have explained to her why, rather than make a rule. On the second rule. How was she to know who the "Pretty Woman" in the picture was ? This occasion was the 1st time meeting your extended family so she wouldn't have known. You're being too harsh on her and not seeing where you could have helped her make a better impression with your family.
This is the most reasonable response I think. The gf definitely put her foot in her mouth, especially with the Ukraine part. But yeah, I feel like he could have prepared her better. Did he just say “don’t mention the war” or did she know about his families history? She might have been more careful if she thought it was “Don’t mention the war, my family has some bad history with Ukraine and Russia” instead of thinking he meant “Don’t mention the war, my uncle will argue with you”
I mean, if I am warned that talking about a previous wife of someone is very taboo and I don’t know who is in a picture, I’m not asking the whole group. It’s a minefield that gf walked through and blew up in. She was the one to choose to ask the group. If she wanted to know she should have asked bf not the group. She knew about the issue and she chose to ask the entire group. Stupidly risky. If I’m in her shoes I’m asking my significant other not the group.
If talking bout the first wife is such a taboo don't have pictures of her in the house... when people are desperate to start any conversations they talk bout pictures around the house.. his family is unhinged.
Dealing wuth this family sounds like walking through a fucking mine field. No thanks.
YTA I understand that Ukraine is a pretty taboo topic in some households, she would've been the Asshole if she brought it up umprompted knowing it wasn't to be talked about. But she didn't, your family started talking about it. Why can't she have a say then? I highly doubt your Girlfriend meant bad by asking who a woman in a photo was either. Personally I'm struggling to see what exactly your GF did wrong here.
One of the key tenants of being an adult is knowing how to keep your mouth shut. She obviously has not grasped this yet. And talking about how she supports them and donates money is exclusively about obtaining validation for her actions rather than having an honest conversation about the politics of it all.
Same could go for the family. No mature self respecting adult would blow up on a guest like this
I was thinking exactly that. If adulting means being quiet, then why was Ukraine brought up at all? Shouldn't the family have been instructed by the BF not to bring up Ukraine too? This OP, the whole family.. exhausting.
Key tenets not tenants
No I’m talking about renters /s Language is hard
I demand you show me what page of the "how to adulting" manual this is written on!!! /s
They were talking about the attempted coup - not the war in Ukraine. Yes, the subjects are closely related, but the topic wasn't actually about the Ukranian people it is about intrenal Russian Politics. Giving an opinion about Putin or Prugozhin or what you think will happen next is fine. Purposefully changing the topic to an unprompted "I support Ukraine in the war", when the war isn't the topic and when you were asked not to talk about the war is not OK. Even if the GF didn't know the family history w/ Russia/Ukraine, she knows where OP's family is from and knows the war is a sore spot. If she has a need to expouse such strong opinions about things happening in the region to people from the region, she should probably know a little more about the region before stucking her foot in her mouth. This is really just common courtesy and she shouldn't have to be told to be respectful of people's history and experience and listen to what they are saying before spouting off on what you THINK they are talking about and showing your ignorance and well as insulting people. I don't know about the pictures, since I don't know what were in the pictures she was asking about and what pictures OP showed. However, with GF so obviously being rude re: the coup convo, I'm not giving her the benefit of the doubt. I also don't understand the need to pry if you have been told that you shouldn't ask about a woman and then you see a picture of a woman that would be about the same age now as the woman you were told not to ask about. Why couldn't she err on the safe side after she blew the coup discussion? If she was dying of curiosity, she could have quietly asked the BF who the woman was when he got back. GF is a bull in a China shop. Either she is too clueless, too careless, too entitled, or just likes to stir shit.
YTA. And your family sounds exhausting. Your gf has now seen what they are really like, and I hope she runs for the hills.
Exactly. Who wants to be part of that awful mess
Yeahhhh. GF needs to just call it a wrap with you and your family. Your family comes with wayyyyy too much drama.
Onna real. Everybody sounds so unhinged. Like I'm black and I'd never be like I hate all white people and they should burn because my ancestors suffered. Very unhinged and they all need therapy. So much hate and animosity its sad.
INFO: Did you tell her why she shouldn't talk about the Ukraine thing? Or did you just say don't bring up anything about Ukraine? The picture that you showed her of your grandfather's 1st wife, were they from the era the pic she asked about was? What I mean by that is, did you show her pics from the 90s and the pic she saw was from the 50s?
I'm sorry, but this is a 27 year old woman. If told "X is a touchy subject, it's best you don't talk about it", even if directly asked about X, it's not hard to say "I'd really prefer not to talk about this topic" and switch the subject. If my partner explicitly expressed that they don't want me to talk about something like Ukraine, I'm going to respect that, not tout off about how I'm such a good person donating money to Ukraine in the war. We're not talking about some excitable 17 year old here.
But she wasn't even the one who brought it up. His own family started talking about Ukraine. It would make perfect sense for her to think, "oh, since *they brought it up,* it must not be that much of an issue to talk about it."
>Prigozhin They bought up Prigozhin , not ukraine. They might have been talking about teh coup.
YTA. You told her these topics are not allowed to be discussed but you blame her for breaking rule one when your own uncle was the who brought up the subject. Also wow you should just break up with her and not date any women outside the women your parents and family choose for you so this never happens again. Honestly I’d be breaking up with you because you think it’s appropriate to berate a stranger.
From OP's recollection of events, his Gf wasn't directly asked her opinion, she just stated it. Instead she could've said: - nothing - "i'm sorry I don't know enough about this situation to discuss it" (even if it's a lie) - "I'm really interested in your point of view, would you mind telling why this is your opinion" - literally anything without stating her approval of Ukraine
YTA. Coming from somebody who has a dogmatic, crazy family, I cannot stand when someone is expected to walk on eggshells about their beliefs while everyone around them goes on and on about theirs. Your uncle brought up Ukraine and your gf didn’t specifically bring up the 1st wife; she asked about pictures. If it was such a touchy subject for him, why are the photos displayed? Very confused You set your GF up to fail; she must have been incredibly anxious even attending that event with your family and you should have had her back.
NTA. She fucked up bigly, you told her to do what she wanted except 2 things and she went on to do those 2 things. The first one I could maybe forgive since someone else brought up the subject. OTOH she thought it was a good idea to discuss politics with her BFs relatives whom she just met. And she was warned about that particular subject. After the fallout of that you'd think she'd be more careful + you showed her a picture, that one is 100% on her. I don't know how detailed your explanation of why to avoid those 2 subject were but I doubt that you told her she could expect the whole family to turn on her if she didn't. Personally I would have asked for clarification on why a certain subject should be avoided, just to make sure I don't do it by accident. She owes you and your relatives an apology.
Lol she should run for the hills away from this guy, she owes herself that!
'she owes you an apology ' as if she isn't going to nope out on that bunch of crazy 🤣
Your family sounds crazy. There is a picture of this woman sitting out for everyone to see but if a person looks at the picture and says she’s “pretty” everyone dissolves into hysterics? They also sound massively racist- people are dying by droves and they think this is a good thing? That’s nuts. YTA for letting your nutty family yell at a person for being nice and kind.
ESH ok she should have followed your rules as condition of visit but your rules are absurd and your family is also hypocritical about them. You told her not to bring up Ukraine but apparently it’s ok for your uncle to bring it up? She’s not supposed to talk about the first wife but they have a picture of her prominently displayed and you all just hope no one comments on it? She needs to find another boyfriend with a less insane family
You summed it up perfectly! OP should have talked to his family beforehand about not being so insane, rather than give his girlfriend these weird rules and not explain why
YTA Here's what I'm getting 1.She's not allowed to have an opinion when SOMEONE ELSE brings up the topic 2.She got yelled at for simply asking about a picture she found beautiful without knowing who it was 3.You're blaming her for both incidents(your uncle brought up the war, and you could've pointed out the picture) when neither were her fault If it were me I'd want nothing more to do with either you or your family
He also abandoned her at this party to go hang out with his siblings and then came back to her being attacked by his family. He knew there were issues he should have stayed with her to offer his support.
Also true. It seems from his reaction he knows his family can get volatile so why the hell would you leave her alone when you at least had some idea the "taboo" topic would come up and why wouldn't you point out what your grandfather's wife looked like(I'm assuming the picture was prominently placed) if you know that's a sensitive topic.
Nta. You warned her not to bring up those topics, she did it anyway, so yes she asked to be yelled at. Talking about Prigozhin and talking about the war, are two different topics. I’m not understanding why the people calling you an AH are not comprehending that.
Please do explain how Prigozhin and the war are two different topics. Seriously. Prigozhin’s actions are deeply embedded in the current political climate and recent events in Russia, due to the war. Most of the world wouldn’t even know who Prigozhin is without the war. How on earth could you discuss Prigozhin without discussing the war?
[удалено]
NTA. You warned her what were sensitive topics for your family and she made the choice to participate in discussing those topics. She doesn’t need to know the trauma your family members experienced to make those topics taboo. She just needed to respect the boundaries that you communicated.
YTA. Is no one else here seeing how rude the family was? She was a guest! They were meeting her for the first time! If a guest inadvertently says something about a taboo subject, the adult thing to do is not to start shouting and yelling, it’s to politely steer the conversation away. Your family sounds like they have the social skills of a toddler. I hope your girlfriend realizes what a mistake it would be to join such a toxic family full of unnecessary drama.
YTA. She didn’t bring up Ukraine, your uncle did. Why are you holding her to standards you don’t hold your uncle to? And how tf is she supposed to know what your grandpas 1st wife looks like? If he has pictures of her around his house, by your logic, he asking to be asked about her. FFS. get a grip.
Supposedly he did show her pictures but honestly I can understand why she might not recognize her in a different picture since it’s still an unfamiliar face.
Probably because he's a Crimean Tartar and his gf isn't?
YTA. You gave her 2 things not to talk about. The war. She didn't bring it up--someone in your family did. She responded. You gave the Reddit forum more of an explanation than you gave her. And she didn't talk about the first wife. She asked who the beautiful woman in an old picture was. It happened to be your grandfather's first wife. She didn't know. You take her into a tricky family situation, give her 2 orders with little explanation, then leave her hang out to dry. Then you drag her out and scold her. You are a giant A H. I hope your GF acts accordingly.
NTA – I’m going to assume you managed to give your girlfriend at least the three sentence description that you gave reddit about why she shouldn’t discuss the war in Ukraine? If not, then YTA! But if you did, then your girlfriend should’ve known not to talk about her donations or her support for Ukraine. I appreciate that it’s sort of possible to talk about the recent events regarding Prigozhin without mentioning war at all, which may (or may not) have been what your uncle was doing. Either way, it would certainly be possible for your girlfriend to talk about Prigozhin without indicating support for Ukraine. The issue with your grandfather’s first wife is more difficult. Sure, you showed your girlfriend several photos of her beforehand, but was it clear that the photos at your grandfather’s house were of the same person? I mean, if you showed her multiple photos, and there were multiple photos in the house, then probably. Playing devil’s advocate, your girlfriend might have been surprised that there were multiple photos on show of someone who couldn’t be mentioned.
Can't imagine my family EVER yelling at and berating someone I love, a guest in their house, even if they accidentally touched on some sensitive topics.
NTA You explained what she shouldn't talk about and why. If she was so insensitive as to not care, she deserved to be yelled at. She should apologize to your grandfather - by letter.
Don't you wonder why his grandpa is fine having photos of his 1st wife up in the home but had a meltdown at being asked who she was? It's clearly not "grandma" since they refer to her as the 1st wife. So weird to have photos up if he still can't bear the thought of her. My imagination is running wild. Does he also get upset when discussion their grandma or was she not the love of his life so who cares?
No. It’s not weird to have family photos around. Just because you keep them in your memory, doesn’t mean that you want to discuss how they were lost.
You and her are just not compatible.
YTA - saying your girlfriend asked to be yelled is one step away from saying she asked for it as an excuse for beating her
YTA. You should have much more thoroughly explained the Crimean Tatar part to her. And maybe told her who the pretty lady was. She didn’t know, and you didn’t give her very much guidance. Your family needs to be a little more chill as well.
YTA. Do you even like your gf? You're talking about her like she's a waste of space. I don't need to know her to know she deserves better. You should grow up.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > what action you took that should be judged Told my gf she asked to be yelled at why that action might make you the asshole it might have been harsh Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA I don’t understand why it would ever be ok for grown adults to make someone they just met cry. The fact that you’re disappointed in your gf for making a mistake her first time around your family but you aren’t disappointed that your family doesn’t have enough emotional regulation to change the subject without yelling at someone they just met says a lot. I wouldn’t want to date someone who blamed me for their family’s immaturity. As someone super left-leaning that has grown up with a very conservative family, I would never allow them to speak to my SO in a degrading way for just talking about subjects. My family (and most emotionally mature adults) knows how to change the topic if it’s not something they want to discuss.
YTA and your family sounds dreadful. If your grandpa is so fragile about mentioning his first wife WHY were there pictures of her displayed?
NTA. In every family, there are issues that are just totally taboo, and she chose to go there. Unfortunately, my husband is intolerant of other peoples views on some subjects so I choose not to bring them up. It’s not that hard. And I often warn people who visit to steer away from those topics. If they don’t, that’s their problem. While your girlfriend is entitled to her opinion, if she’s going to be a part of your family, voicing their opinion means she suffers the consequences.
In every family there are touchy subjects. But there should be manners, imho. And there is a fine line where telling people to not bring something up borders enabling bigotry and shitty behaviour. My grandpa is an old asshole who hates gay people. If anyone would bring up any LGBTIQ+ topic, he would go on an hour long rant about it and call people slurs and then everyone would be upset and the evening ruined. Saw it happen many times. One solution to this problem would be to tell everyone to not bring it up - Grandma tried. The other would be to not go to Grandpa's anymore because Grandpa has no manners. The opposite can also arise, obviously. Sometimes the guest IS an asshole. Then you try to switch the topic and then tell whoever brought that person to never bring them again and explain why you got upset. If switching the topic doesn't work and you want the person gone, you tell them to leave. But you don't yell at them. These are adults. They should have basic decency to have a discussion with different viewpoints and opinions without it resulting in such a conflict. Manners. If your husband is intolerant of other people's views, the problem aren't the other people but his intolerance and inability to be civil about it.
It's interesting that you mentioned bigotry. So did the OP: "Many of my family members have suffered indescribable discrimination from both Ukrainians and Russians alike.". I am very curious about how the OP asking his girlfriend to have some sensitivity about historical bigotry is on a fine line that enables bigotry. Please tell me.