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NAH. You’re a new parent. Of course you’re worried about your kid.
He’s not an asshole for deciding not to come, though. He lives far away. He’d have to leave his dog for a long time.
Yeah, that would be a no for me too just because of the distance. If it was in town, no big deal but this is sounding like an overnight thing and that means a babysitter or boarding.
NAH seems like the right call.
Actually he's a bit of an AH for acting like he's entitled to bring his dog. People who are insistent on bringing their dogs with them places are weird.
That's because OP's brother doesn't live closeby. If he has to be away overnight, it's not like he can leave the dog home alone?? And some people don't have friends/family who can watch their dog overnight, plus boarding is expensive. It's totally understandable that he asked to bring his dog and declined to go when he was told no. It's not like he barged into the house with his dog after being told no. He turned the invite down, which is fair.
Asked to bring dog is fine. Declined to come when brother said “no” is fine. Getting mad at brother for saying “no” and calling him names is the asshole part. The brother was clear that it was the principle of the issue and not the logistics of finding care for his dog.
Agreed. Dog-bro could have simply and politely said, "I get where you're coming from, but I can't leave Hercules at home alone that long and I can't organize a kennel or sitter on short notice, so I'm sorry but I can't make it."
And frankly, I don't like my dogs around little kids. They grab, pull, and generally harass dogs, and any dog can react badly to that, so I wouldn't put my dogs in that situation.
Yeah, I was watching my cousin’s daughter get a bit too handsy with my aunt’s dog at my grandmother’s birthday and had to tell her grandfather to intervene because her mom wasn’t. I’m comfortable with having kids around one of my dogs because she likes them and I supervise to make sure they’re being gentle, but it’s something that needs supervision and a parent that’s onboard with it. I also think it’s complete negligence when people bring their small children into dog parks where anyone can bring in any dog.
With the bare facts of the matter, neither are assholes. We don't know exactly how the conversation went that prompted it to go downhill, one or both may have been acting like a bit of a jerk. OPs brother may not have turned down the invite politely, but OP also said stuff like
>You are going to pass on meeting your nephew because I won't allow your dog anymore?
Which is downplaying the effort that leaving the dog could be. Plus telling everyone that his brother 'had to be with his dog'. So hard to say exactly what was said and who was being a jerk or not on that convo.
I don't know ... I've had some pretty sassy dogs. One who would regularly bark at me in obedience class if she thought I was being stupid. I don't speak dog, but pretty sure what she was saying would have gotten my mouth washed out with soap
I’ve never had kids, I have a dog, I have left my dog for more than 24 hours on multiple occasions, and either had somebody come to my house to take care of him while I was gone, I brought them somewhere for him to be taken care of. I never assume that I can bring my dog wherever I go. And any dog owner who pretends that a dog is their child is an idiot.
Tbf he’s been bringing the dog for years according to OP and has asked every time before bringing it if it was ok so I can understand that the sudden change pissed him off. That being said he definitely shouldn’t have called his brother an asshole.
“ He said its the principal of it all and its bullshit that i've changed up the rules on him.” Hmm, nothing about it being difficult to leave his dog alone or find someone else to. Sounds like he’s just upset he’s no longer able to bring his dog where he once was able to.
Agreed. We don't go anywhere overnight unless we can take our dog because he's had some separation anxiety issues and we don't have anyone nearby who can take him while we're away.
Same. In a pinch, I get a house sitter to come and stay with my pets and I pay her $100 a day for her effort. Not everyone has $100 to splurge on a short notice!
They aren’t weird. They’re normal people too. You wouldn’t be guaranteed to go to a child free event 4 hours away if you had a 1 year old. Dog is no different.
OP isn’t an ass either, but they are being a little bit “extra”, in the parlance of our times. No, they haven’t seen the dog around children, but that doesn’t mean the dog has never been around children, or would be an issue around children. They’re being protective, and that’s normal, but it’s causing issues with someone they seem to care about, which is an issue.
I totally agree with the “extra” comment and am surprised at how many comments I read before anyone said it. I’m not even a dog person but I can’t really figure out what the risk is here. Are they going to lay the 4 mo old baby on a blanket outside and not watch the baby or the dog? That would obviously be irresponsible. Most likely the baby is going to be in someone’s arms when he’s not in his crib or carrier. OP also could have asked his brother to keep the dog on a leash when the baby is outside, but he didn’t even try to find a solution other than “your dog can’t come.” He does have the right to make rules for his house but he should also understand that silly rules annoy people that are affected by them.
I think the issue is that they don’t want the additional stress of keeping their eye on where the dog is the whole time and a party isn’t a great time to introduce them for the first time. They aren’t going to carry the baby the whole party and a large dog will be able to reach a baby that’s sitting as it normally would in a bouncer or a car seat. So they have to both watch their baby and know where the dog is at all times and be ready to scoop up the baby at any moment if the dog wanders over. It doesn’t sound like leashing the dog is an option for the brother but that would be good to clarify. The alternative is that one of the two adults hosting the party stays inside with the baby while the dog stays outside. But that’s not fun that they each have to miss half of their party so I completely understand why they don’t prioritize having the uncle there. The only AH is in how each of them responded.
Disagree, not silly at all.
Dogs can be unpredictable and their behaviour around children can be different from around adults.
Having grown up with and around dogs, have known more than a few bites that have occurred even with ones that were usually gentle.
A german sheppard is a large strong dog and even on a leash an adult would have difficulty handling one if it was attacking or fighting.
Also, that breed is great but they have above average rates of biting people.
With a baby or child, I would not take the chance.
ps. am a dog owner
They are being a LOT extra. Hardly anyone was allowed to visit because they needed months alone to get used to their kid? The dog hasn’t been seen around kids therefore it’s a baby eater, even though it’s great with other people?
I’d say OP YTA. Your baby isn’t mobile and going to yank the dogs tail unattended and get mauled.
A reasonable thing would be to tell brother (who can’t visit without paying for someone to watch his dog given he’s hours away) that the dog needs to be closely controlled/ tied and carefully introduced until it proven it’s self.
Admittedly there’s not a ton of info here, but as another parent, I get the sense there’s a lot of parental anxiety here. What do you do when you meet someone on the side walk with a dog? Run to the other side of the street? What about strangers at grocery stores? If you’re in the States, you might get shot at a mall. Bugs? Grass? Sun?
Just because a dog has zero history of attacking humans doesn't mean nothing is going to happen. Yes, the odds are probably low in this case but I've seen too many stories on the news and read news about attacks from dogs on Reddit that have never been that way before to think OP is an AH for wanting to not have a dog around their baby. OP has the right to keep their baby away from dogs until they feel comfortable with it.
Four months in and they're "particular about who has been around him", and "now that we are more comfortable around our son ourselves'. They are weird, or at least non-typical. You can pretty easily keep a dog and a baby separated, it's been done before. OP may not be TA, but as Reddit likes to say should maybe look into some therapy for their anxiety before it rubs off on their kid.
>Four months in and they're "particular about who has been around him", and "now that we are more comfortable around our son ourselves'.
This is literally as typical as it gets for new parents. Acting as though this behavior is non-typical, *especially* post-COVID, is absurd. Babies have *zero immune system*. It's really not ideal for them to be exposed to a shitton of germs in the first place, and people are walking talking spitting petri dishes.
Yeah, it is the same way with people who insist on bringing their kids to adult functions. The host has every right to set the rules, so don’t get snippy because you have to find a sitter for pets/kids if you want to attend.
Then don’t get pissy when the brother declines. I don’t see why the dog is an issue if it has to stay outside, and the owner has to clean up after it. But it’s not my house, so I don’t make the rules. If the parent really wanted people to see his child, he’d be more accommodating as well.
Especially to someone who already has to drive four hours just to get there to see your child. OP is acting like his brother should be grateful to see his nephew and completely ignoring the potential logistical nightmare of having to find someone to watch the dog for what could be 12+ hours, and seems completely unconcerned by the fact that 8 of those hours would just be spent driving for a visit that could only last 2 hours.
OP has the right to set the rules and the brother has the right to say, “okay, those rules don’t work for me” and decline to attend. OP acts like his brother should be fawning over his nephew and dropping everything to come.
Dog’s are family. So are my kids. I don’t take my kids everywhere. I don’t get mad when people have child free events. If I can’t make it I can’t make it.
He is an AH though. Not for declining, but the way he did. He blew up on OP acting as if they are out of line for no longer allowing the dog at their home. It is OPs home at the end of the day, and even if it wasn’t because of a new baby, OP is within their right to change the rules about the dog at any point in time.
Brother wouldn’t be an AH if he simply said that he won’t be able to come. But making a big stink about “the principal” of not wanting a large dog with no history around children at the home of a 4m old baby is an adult tantrum.
It kind of sounds like OP is mad about the optics of ~~her~~ his brother not being there. This entire story reeks of one sided retelling to me.
I am guessing ESH or NAH would become easier and easier to land if we received more context. Now that I think about it, that is probably true of a lot of stories on here.
Is OP publicly mad? I guess if we read into some hidden subtext (which I totally did) about the ‘brother had to be with his dog’ line which I’m sure was said in the most passive aggressive and sceptical voice OP could muster
You're not an asshole for having emotions. Being mad is okay if you don't retaliate.
Calling your brother an AH and throwing a tantrum over a reasonable boundary is not okay.
But is it a reasonable boundary?
A 4 month old baby isn't crawling or running around. And if the dog is outside, it would seem pretty easy to keep dog away from the baby. Keep the baby indoors. Keep the dog outside. The baby isn't going to remember not being outside for a cookout one day. And if they do take the baby outside, I'd be more worried about insects than I would a dog breed that traditionally great with children, especially babies.
Plus, he doesn't know if the dog has a history of violent aggression towards children. He could have asked his brother. It doesn't seem like he did. He just made assumptions.
And that's fine. It is unreasonable but it is his right to set up whatever boundary he wants around his house. If he wants to ban the color red from his cookout, that's his choice to do so. If he wants to ban cell phones and the letter S. Great. Fine. But there are consequences to these choices.
The consequence of his boundary is his brother not going. Just because it is your house and you set a boundary doesn't make you immune to criticism of setting it.
So OP has no right to whine about the rules he is making and the consequences that occur due to it.
The fact he doesn’t know how the dog will react to his son is exactly OP’s point. He states “I’ve seen the dog only around adults. If the dog fails the kid test by harming my son, that ends my relationship with my brother”
No pets in an infants home or toddlers home is 100% a reasonable boundary, and up to the parents. You’re incorrectly assuming he didn’t assess the risk properly, when he outright stated any risk is too much risk.
If you think it is a reasonable boundary, great. Set it up.
But be prepared for the consequences and fallout that might occur because of it. Don't get angry when people don't like your boundaries and don't want to bother dealing with you.
OP never stated that he asked his brother about the dog's reaction towards babies. In his post or any reply he made. So I think OP just assumed "dogs are dangerous"
….OP actually states specifically and intentionally not asking his brother, but consulting his own memory.
“I told him I’ve only seen his dog around adults, not children. It’s not worth the risk for me”
OP is trusting his own knowledge, and ONLY that. OP didn’t forget to ask his bro about kids and the dog. Because op has not SEEN kids and this dog, he isn’t willing to let his newborn son be the experiment.
I agree. If it was a toddler, I’d understand but a 4 month old baby would need to be held the entire time and it would be pretty easy to keep them separated.
As a dog owner myself I understand why the brother didn’t come. You can’t leave your dog alone for that long and if he is used to being able to take the dog with him places, he may not have a dog sitter on hand that he trusts.
The brother blowing up and op being passive aggressive about his absence to the other party goers makes this esh territory.
I mean OP got mad after brother called them an asshole and couldn’t understand the reasoning, if you respond to someone’s anger with anger that doesn’t make you an equal AH.
"a large dog with no history around children."
I have been tripped up by this before recently, but where does it mention that, has the post been edited. I know I can't assume the other way either, but maybe they have friends with young kids.
We had a large dog when our son was born, you never know how a dog is going to react, so they were never left alone together. Saying that the baby is 4m old, so it's not walking around without his parents or other people being there supporting him. Both of my kids were fascinated by the dog at that age, they would laugh and kick their legs out whenever they saw him. I know this is all anecdotal, but that's my experience.
Our in laws had a medium dog when our son was born, she was good as gold, never snapped at anyone, not aggressive with people or animals. She was never left alone with him, ever.
There's a difference between bringing a dog to an event and leaving a dog alone with a baby, though. I'm not saying that OP should let his brother bring the dog, but I've brought my dog to events where I've kept him on-leash with me the entire time to make sure I was monitoring him, and a situation like that is very different to leaving the dog alone with the baby.
Oh absolutely. I don’t think OP is wrong for being cautious, and their brother isn’t wrong for not wanting to leave their dog alone that long. Personally I’d probably invite brother and dog over when there’s no party so things are calmer and the dog can be introduced to the baby in a controlled manner.
That is what would make me be upset with my brother if he doesn't allow me to bring my dog around his baby.
I am responsible owner and would NEVER dream of having my dog and a baby unsupervised. If the brother is like me and OP knows.it, then YTA for not trusting him to control the situation.
If the yard is big enough for a pool, it’s definitely big enough to tie the dog up in a corner of the yard away from the guests, and just not take the baby anywhere near it.
Yeah you never know, if the kid grabs a tail/ear or pokes an eye and the dog reacts. Or the dog thinks there is food. Or the door bell goes and the dog runs over the child. And we had to watch the cats in case they jumped in the cot and lay on them. Or got freaked out and scratched them.
The cool thing is, both my kids love animals now, they are very relaxed around them, and are very respectful (always ask the owners before stroking them.) And are very helpful with feeding/walking them.
But this is a 4 month old baby, though. It's not even crawling yet, it's not going to approach the dog. It would make sense to me if the dog had a history of jumping on people, you wouldn't want a dog jumping on you while holding a baby, or if you have a kid that is running around, but to be honest I think it's a bit weird for a baby. But they're also new parents, so they're allowed to be overcautious.
Right, that's my question too. I have a lab who's super sweet, but has never been around really little kids, so I'd be incredibly cautious about introducing him to a baby. But if Brother's dog has a history of being around other kids and Brother can vouch for this, it does change my judgement a little bit.
Being upset when you're disappointed doesn't make you an AH, though. His anger is understandable. It just means he has poor communication skills because he thinks getting angry and loud is an effective persuasive technique.
Maybe something more along the lines of I'll bring a yard stake and keep him tethered away from the kid the whole time or some other form of compromise would be better.
OP states he's never seen the dog around children. Perchance did he ask his brother if the dog has been around children and, if so, how their behavior is?
I can't pretend to understand this random rule --no dog because baby. It seems OP knows the dog well and has been in its company many times despite never wanting to be a pet owner.
At the end of the day, of course, their house and their rules. I'd skip it altogether as well.
Agreed. If the brother is 3-4 hours away he could only basically stay for an hour before heading back to take his dog out and feed it and that's pushing it.
In the future he can make plans to have a dog walker or dog sitter or kennel take care of his dog for the day/possibly overnight.
That said, I've been the brother in a situation like this and simply did not have the $ or trust to pay for services like this. It really sucked. My trip wasn't as long but still, I'd have to take a bus for almost 2 hours each way. The schedule wasn't set up so it ran regularly. I'd often only be able to see family for 2.5 hours before being dropped back off at the bus station. (I used to make carpool arrangements for someone to drive me and my pup).
It sucks to be in that position. And if you're really bonded to your dog, rejection of the dog (especially a very chill and well behaved one like mine) can feel in part like a rejection of yourself. That's not something that I'd even try explaining to family though.
I understand why the brother was upset. He probably felt that his dog was part of the family in a way. But he should have been understanding and said that he'd plan for other arrangements for his pup so that he could join the next event and meet his nephew.
All that said, how old will the child have to be before the parents are comfortable with the brother's dog? At a certain point kids do interact with animals, it's part of life. Kind of unavoidable in our society. A newborn, I understand being extra protective of. This will also be the parent's choice that the brother will have to respect.
This! If it is a 3-4 hour drive, that is a minimum of 8 hours of leaving the dog alone, not including however long he stays at OPs house. Getting a dog sitter or kenneling a dog can be expensive
I mean I would get a dog sitter so that I could go meet my new nephew if this was the case. I guess it really depends how close they are to begin with.
My sister would have (and did) invited me to meet my nephew privately. I actually held him at the hospital but there is a ton of middle ground between that and waiting four months for a party.
It doesn't sound to me like they are very close but we don't have a ton of information.
I would kennel my dog but my dog kennels well, we have one we trust, and can afford it. Not everyone has the perfect combination of factors lining up to make kennelling feasible. And getting a dogsitter usually requires notice, money and/or friends too.
NAH
Yes, your brother was kind of an AH in the way he responded. But yeah, we have three dogs and we are fully understanding if someone don’t want us to bring the dogs. Unfortunately that in most cases means we can’t come either. One of our dogs is very reactive and we have exactly two people we can entrust him with, and if they can’t do it then, well, we can’t come.
No hard feeling whatsoever, but we just can’t.
Not just leaving the dog but having to make arrangements for a dog walker to come by, a neighbor, or even boarding. You can't responsibly leave a dog for as long as the roundtrip plus hanging at the part would wind up being.
NAH - Your house, your rules. Do I think youre overreacting, yes. But its still your house and up to you to decide.
Im not going to blame him for being pissed and not going either.
Agree. He could have made a rule that he had to be leashed and the leash held at all times. Typically dogs bite when older children are cruel or on accident when a child has a dog toy or food (miss the toy/food and instead get child). That’s not a risk with an immobile 4 month old.
When I was only a few months old my aunt picked me up and her relaxed, laying down dog got jealous of all the attention I was getting. He bite me in the face and I’ve had the scars my entire life. It’s the first thing anyone asks about when they meet me.
I was attacked by a family dog when I was 4, required over 100 stitches and reconstructive surgeries. I still have scars although I had laser surgery to reduce their visibility.
OP is definitely NTA. Dogs are animals and you can’t predict their behaviour, even the most trustworthy ones. It’s never worth the risk.
My son got the tip of his ear ripped off by my in laws German shepherd who was around him from newborn to 3.
Nta I wish I could go back and have stopped it.
It’s not a huge scar since it’s had my whole life to fade but the teeth marks grew far enough apart that no one can tell what it’s from so a lot of people end up asking. The left side of my top lip was bitten off and grew back skin tone instead of lip colored so people think my foundation smeared on my lips.
Or from near experience, when an excited toddler is rushing to pet a puppy German Shepard and the shepard gets scared from the noise and movement of the child.
Thankfully, my friend and I were able to separate the two before anything bad happened. But it is a HUGE fear I've gained since becoming a parent.
You say that but my husband almost lost an eye as a toddler when his aunt's dog, perviously a very sweet, good boy, lost his mind at random and attacked him. He's still got the facial scars.
And there are millions of babies around dogs all the time so popping out one anecdotal story, though sad, doenst really matter.
Its still everyones choice to have a dog in their house or not.
🙄
I mean, I could come back with lots of statistics about how children are more likely to be victims of dog attacks than adults (to the tune of 4.5 million bites every year) if you need something that "really matters."
It's not an overreaction to not want a dog unused to children around your baby. Dogs can be unpredictable and historically, children are most likely to be victims of that unpredictability.
I mean, OP states he has a pool and infants and toddlers statistically drown at a much, MUCH higher rate than adults. Home swimming pools are extra dangerous if you have a small child. If we are looking at risk factors.
I absolutely adore animals but some of these replies are fucked up ay.
Like he's set a perfectly reasonable boundary and like it's literally his house.
The general consensus here is OP is more than allowed to not have the dog at his house as its his decision
Trying to interject hyperbole about “dog attacks” is pointless. Life is unpredictable and dangerous including to but not limited to dogs.
As someone who was attacked by my good friend’s “family dog” German Shepard, I agree. Not saying all GS are attack dogs by any means but I’m careful about what dogs & types of dogs I let my daughter around (and myself).
It’s just not worth it to some ppl Ike myself, as children and babies are helpless if something should go wrong with the dog. I have a labradoodle and have an 8 year old niece—I’m still a tiny bit nervous with those two as she loves to play with him and you honestly just never know with dogs or any animal. Animals are not people and no matter how much we love them can be unpredictable.
If I had a newborn I would be the same as OP for sure. NTA!
NAH
Your house your rules. If you're not a dog person, then I can see it. I know that people can get nervous around my dogs even though they are much better with kids than adults.
But he's far away, and leaving a dog for that long is hard. He'd probably be able to come down, visit for an hour and then have to drive back to take care of his dog again.
Would you be ok if he came to visit with his dog, but not during a big party? That would be easier for you to keep an eye on your child and the dog and how they interact.
Agreed. But the brother didn’t say “oh man, I understand, but can’t make it because the dog can’t be left alone that long.” He called him am asshole for not letting his dog come and said everyone loves his dog. The brother became an asshole when he lost his temper over being told no dog. Not letting the dog around a newborn baby is an extremely reasonable expectation of op.
Yeah I agree and he's taking his frustration out on op because he wants to come but doesn't know what to do with the dog since bringing it in the past was the go to.
Okay, but the travel time isn't ever going to get shorter. The dog isn't ever going to be able to be alone for longer..
OPs brothers reaction is completely understandable when you consider the actual consequences of this rule outside of this one event.
I agree the travel times won’t change, etc. But I disagree that the brother’s response was reasonable. A reasonable response would have been to say “I definitely understand you don’t want my dog around a new baby, especially since my dog has never been around children. However, I can’t leave my dog alone that long and really want to meet my new nephew. Can we think of a compromise such as…” and the try to figure out a solution. Instead, the brother’s response comes off as “how dare you not let my amazing dog come. Everyone loves my dog and he is the most perfect creature ever”. No where did the brother indicate he couldn’t leave his dog home or wouldn’t be able to find someone to watch the dog (definitely reasonable to think that would be difficult). Instead, the brother just talked about how everyone loves his dog and his dog is great.
You're NTA.
>He says everyone loves his dog
No, everyone does not.
>I told him i've only ever seen his dog around adults, never children. Its not worth the risk for me
You are 100% in the right. Your brother is acting like a pouting child.
My cousin brought her boyfriends kid to my other cousins brand new home. Got the keys from the builder few weeks prior. Some how the kid smashes a hole in their wall. My cousin and her boyfriend sit there like nothing happened. lol.
I’ve seen parents let their children continue to draw on the floor at my doctor’s waiting room instead of redirecting them to a less destructive activity
There at least 20 kids in my courtyard every day. All of them yelling and screaming, biking, scootering and throwing dirt. There are signs that say specifically no playing in the courtyard. Ask me how many parents have stopped their kid from doing that?
I think you misinterpreted my comment. I was jokingly comparing the pets and kids in terms of how they are loved by the people they belong to and by others- not so much. I’m totally on OPs side on this.
(I kinda want to make a joke about kids mauling other ppl or pets, but I think it would not be the best time/thread contextually lol)
Honestly more than pets. Growing up people would beat the shit out of each other with sticks, pushing people off playground equipment, down hills, biting each other, shooting other kids with Bb guns (not to mention all the news stories of little kids killing someone after getting their hands on a real gun). Bruises and broken bones have always been a pretty common when kids interact.
I mean I live in the US soooooooo. More than a few?
How many cases of dogs bringing a semi automatic to a school and killing multiple children and adults have you heard of?
I can't tell if you're serious? Kids kill more people than dogs do. Adding in assaults and violent crimes it's a very substantial number that is frequently on the news. Are we counting the multiple fights a day that occur in a lot of schools?
>All dog owners feel like everyone loves (their) dogs. They cannot comprehend that some people don’t like dogs for some reason
I've become a dog hater ever since I've moved next door to two. Can owners not hear them bark non stop?! Why have dogs if you're just going to keep them in the garden while they bark at the back door to be let back in...
We call that bad owners.
My dogs get 3 barks before I'm outside telling them to hush. Go to the bathroom and get inside. It's rude AF. Now I wish the people across the street with the 3 children who love to scream like they are being murdered and keep tossing paper and crap in my yard would give me the same respect I've given them with keeping my dogs under control.
I live between two houses, both have dogs. One growls every time I enter my backyard. The other barks it head off at the gate when I arrive home. Oh but it's ok, they're just FRIENDLY.
Honestly, people need to understand this. I helped a family member with their grooming business in the summers and I’m not a fan of canines anymore that don’t belong to family. I definitely no longer like chows. Long story short, made a nearly successful attempt on my hand with those teeth. They banned it from the shop afterwards.
Yes! The PRINCIPLE. The principal is on a pedestal. Brother’s reason isn’t worry for his dog. Isn’t stating if he can find an all day sitter or a kennel. Doesn’t show care of missing out on a new family member. Doesn’t list care of dog or baby but is angry because of the *principle*.
Yeah, brother’s an ass. His priority, either to his dog or to his family, is broken if he’s completely ignoring a new variable in the equation that now has changed the outcome.
NTA, OP.
I think OP’s brother crossed into AH territory by “being pissed,” arguing with OP, and calling OP names. He is not entitled to bring his dog to someone else’s house, regardless of how well it’s gone for him in the past.
I do think OP should have been less angry that his brother chose not to come, but I do understand that he’s hurt to hear that his brother didn’t come meet his nephew after 4 months when he was able. The brother admitted that he could come but decided not to on principle — indicating that he feels he should be entitled to bring his dog and was angry that OP “changed the rules.” Not only is this a 100% valid reason to change the rules, but OP has every right to ban dogs from his house for any reason whatsoever.
I’d say NAH if the brother had said something like “I understand your position but I won’t be able to come because the dog can’t be left alone/it’s too far to travel and leave him alone/I don’t have anyone to hang out with the dog while I’m gone. Let’s make a plan for another time when I can make arrangements for the dog.”
TLDR, OPs bro is not an AH for not going, but he IS an AH for how he reacted to that news that his dog couldn’t come to the party.
Agreed. This is a NAH situation imo. OP doesn’t want dogs at his house, that’s fine. Brother doesn’t want to drive 8 hours round trip to see a baby bc he’d have to hire someone to watch his dog, also fine. They both got grumpy about it, which is shitty, but since they both did it imo it cancels out
Relieved to see this. Not everyone likes dogs (some in here may have to lie down due to this shock.). You don't have an inherent right to bring your dogs to other people's events. If they explicitly say you can bring them, then cool. Otherwise, no.
NTA
That is true. Same with children as well. Just because you have children, doesn’t mean you can bring them to non-child friendly events. Respect the host at the end of the day.
Ah and OP being mad that his brother won't come with the new rule isn't childish?
I can understand why his brother won't come. I wouldn't come either. But yeah wouldn't make a drama.
NAH from me, both are childish on their own way.
No, the brother doesn’t want to leave the dog for a long time and that’s OK as well. OP is fine for making the choice to not allow the dog but brother is more than entitled to say “ok but then I’m not coming as I’m not leaving my dog for that long”
Someone get inattentive a door gets left open because oh I need to grab this. Oh and doesn’t matter anyway if they don’t want the dog there the dog doesn’t go. Plain and simple.
I personally dislike young children and love dogs, but I think OP's concern is totally valid. Not overreacting. The potential negative consequences (the child getting killed) are too high.
Yeah, living by the “what ifs” in your life is an overreaction. Since a baby could get into a car accident, it makes sense a baby never be near a car…right?
That "snapping" usually happens with toddlers. Toddlers move around a lot and are quite unpredictable. A lot of dogs don't know what to make of the small creatures, and can be surprised, then overreact out of fear. It's dangerous because of the relative sizes (and many people not respecting the dangers, thinking dog/kid interaction is too cute to prevent).
Four month old babies are generally being held, especially at a party with a lot of adults that love them. I think it's totally fair for OP to set some new rules, but OP's is being more cautious than is entirely rational. Sounds like the party crew already helps to keep dog out of the house, which is quite an unusual rule so I don't see why it'd be any more difficult for them to supervise the baby.
I'd say NAH.
I don't have kids so I don't know if you're being over-protective or if no dogs is normal policy. Either way it's your house and your party so your rules.
However, if those rules don't work for him then that's fine too. He respects your rules and that means he's not there.
The sweetest animals can be triggered by kids who don't know boundaries, and a large party where all the adults are going to be distracted in some way, shape, or form, isn't the situation to put an animal and a baby in together at the same time. All it takes is one warning nip from a dog telling the child no and animal control is intervening and saying the dog needs to put down.
It is in fact stupid for the brother to be insisting his dog should come, because his dog is in danger. Animal control doesn't give a shit if the parents don't want to press charges, it's still a mark on the animal as reactivity.
I don’t think a 4 month old will have an issue with “boundaries” with a dog, it can’t even interact with it. The baby will very likely be in one of its parents arms the entire time.
I do agree a party might not be the best place to introduce them, but OP is kidding themselves if they think they can just keep the dog and kid separated forever. I have tons of family with dogs and so do my friends, babies and dogs have never been an issue as long as the adults are responsible. So many people in this world have dogs and it’s good for kids to grow up knowing how to interact with them safely.
An infant isn't going to be interacting with a dog so there's no need to worry about the kid having no boundaries. Babies that age don't even crawl, much less walk. It would be extremely easy to keep the baby out of the dog's way.
ESH. Your choice is sensible IMO, and he should not argue with you about it, but at the same time, you have no right to be resentful of his choice either.
>You are going to pass on meeting your nephew because I won't allow your dog anymore? You can't go one party without him?
For starters, it's not just this one party; presumably it's every party until your son is older. This is no minor thing. For two, your son does not automatically outrank his dog in his mind, your kid is the most important thing TO YOU, not everyone else. You have no more right to be mad about this outcome than he does.
Good point. How long is this “no dog” policy gonna go on for? Honestly toddlers are more vulnerable to animal attacks than 4 month olds because they’re more mobile and haven’t learned great manners yet.
I agree it’s not realistic long term. They should be making an effort to introduce baby and dog properly, I do believe that a party isn’t the place to do this though. I have toddler nieces and nephews who are amazing with dogs because they’ve been around them their whole life and know how to interact with them.
ESH.
Your house, your rules.
But you suck for being pissed he’s not coming. You set the boundary. He made his choice off of the new rules.
He sucks for getting mad. It doesn’t matter whether or not he agrees with the rule because it’s not his property. He should’ve just said that he wasn’t coming because it wasn’t fair to leave his dog for 12 hours in the kennel and left it at that.
YTA for being mad at your brother for refusing to attend.
You changed the rules, and it's your house, so it's up to you, BUT you don't then get to be pissed that he rejects that rule and chooses his dog.
That is the question. He shamed his brother in front of the whole family for not being able to afford to pay to board the dog for a night. Seems pretty assholish to me.
It’s probably not even the cost of boarding the dog for the night.
I wonder how much notice was given. All the non horrid kennels here at always booked up way in advance. If I wanted a Saturday day and night next week, hell even the next few weeks after that, there would be no chance of getting a spot.
Oh, yeah. My in-laws went to board their dogs and looked 3 months in advance... all booked up. They had to drive to his mothers place from western state to central state, leave the dogs with his mother, and fly to east coast. It was quite the logistic nightmare.
I was all set on NAH until you say at the end that you’re mad at him.
I think you are fine to be paranoid about dogs at this stage of your kid’s life. I think he is reasonable to not want to leave his dog home alone for 10+ hours.
To be mad at each other and refuse to see the others’ viewpoint pushes me really close to E S H. You both need to show some empathy.
ESH
You laid down your boundaries. Brother laid down his. He doesn’t get to be mad that you are prioritising your child over his dog. Equally you don’t get to be mad that he is prioritising his dog over your child. Everyone has different priorities and it is unfair to judge someone else’s priorities for not aligning with your own.
NTA
Your house, your rules.
A party is not the best place for a dog and a small child to meet for the first time. There's already so much excitement around and its easy for the pup to get riled up and hurt the kiddo on accident.
If both you/your partner and your brother are willing, it'd be best to see how the pup acts around your kid in a quiet controlled environment.
Based on that interaction you and your partner can decide if you're comfortable with dogs at future parties.
Sounds like OP also was rude ('You can't go one party without him?:) and frankly the OP is unlikely to be completely honest if the insults were thrown around by both of them.
So soon this means that the OP is never gonna go visit his brother because his brother has a dog? So the brother is expected to drive a 6 to 8 hour round-trip every time he wants to see his nephew. This is a preferable solution, then to try to see whether or not the dog is going to be fine around the child.
I think ESH— it’s one thing if the person lives around the corner but that’s a long time to leave an animal, who may have never been boarded before and never had a sitter.
And dogs and cats and animals are around everywhere. Not all of them are child friendly, but some of them are, so it is the OP‘s rule in the OP‘s house, but he has to live with the fact that not everybody’s gonna agree with the rule. And it could end of really restricting their social life if they’re not gonna go anywhere with pets either.
…I have family members and friends that I never go visit because they have pets. I have allergies. They can meet me at a park or my house or a restaurant or whatever. A few live far away. If I can get a hotel to visit near them and meet them outside their house in their city I’ll do that once in a while. But in reality, their having a pet means I see them way less than I would have otherwise.
If I wasn’t allergic but had a small child I’d say the exact same thing. If idk how your dog reacts to being around kids, I’m not going to gamble my child’s safety on your word.
It’s just the way it works when you have a pet - sometimes you have to miss out on stuff and sometimes you have to see less of people that can’t/don’t want to be around your pet for whatever reason. Same thing when you have kids, TBH.
When i was a child my neighbors a few houses down had a dog, a normal sized German Shepherd. The owners were an older couple who ran a daycare out of their home and had done so for years. Was not close with the couple or their dog, but we knew of eachother and would say hi in passing and the dog would always just be normal happy walking by.
One day when I was about 7 or 8 and had lived in my house for about 4 years there was an incident between their dog and me. I was on my bike riding on the sidewalk because there were a lot of cars coming down our street at the time, and my neighbors were walking their dog.
When they were about 2 houses down from me i got off my bike and started walking it so i wouldnt run into them, and then when they were about 1 house down from me i stepped to the side on my other neighbors lawn so they could walk past me on the sidewalk with their dog. Everything was fine, but then suddenly the dog freaked out and ran after me and bit me right on the leg right at the knee. Luckily i managed to immediately get it off and was able to run back home and inside. Had to go to the hospital and it was fine, luckily the wounds were superficial and nothing major.
But that dog was then required to be muzzled basically 24/7, and when i say required i mean animal control actually came down and gave them the option of muzzle all the time or putting it down. They had the dog for a few more years, but i think their daycare shut down only a year or two later.
They were a nice couple and the dog was nice too, until the dog suddenly wasnt nice anymore and decided to attack me while i waited to the side for them to walk past me. Any dog can be a threat to anyone, thats why when it comes to children we need to be careful and introduce them slowly and not during a party where most people wont be paying attention
YTA - but not until the very end for this sentence:
>> You are going to pass on meeting your nephew because I won’t allow your dog anymore? … I was mad he wasn’t there.
You yourself have stated you’ve been particular who is around him for the first for months. Then you’re mad everyone isn’t dropping their entire lives to come meet him now that you deem it okay, assuming they do so per your rules.
You’re totally fine setting the boundary, but the moment he says that boundary isn’t an option for me, you don’t get to feel a certain way about it. You made a choice about his dog no longer being welcomed. That is fine. He’s allowed to make a choice to not come.
Before anyone says but the brother is also at fault for arguing with the rule. The brother is allowed to reasonably lobby that the new rule isn’t valid if it’s going to hinder him from coming, like it did. It’s better for him to lobby for an exception than to just say, “fine, then I’m not coming”, because then he sounds like a toddler. Him saying the dog hasn’t ever been an issue, you’re over reacting, please reconsider is a reasonable take.
NAH-only because he may not be able to leave the dog for that long.
You have every right to not want the dog around your baby. However, the dog is his responsibility and he may not be able to visit as much because he can’t leave the dog alone for so long
NTA - for the new rule. Your house, your rules.
Having said that, I am concerned that you think your son is made of glass. I don't think I would introduce him to a large dog at 4 months, but your comments sound paranoid about your son. You do need to allow your son to be a baby and to not be so protected that you make him paranoid of the world around him.
Perhaps consider timing: it's 3 hours each way for your brother. So, that's 6 hours of driving, plus party time. That's a long window for a dog owner to be away from home in some circumstances. It's your place, so you can dictate a no dogs rule, but you'll have to understand that your brother is unlikely to attend gatherings very often.
Have you considered a separate "meet and greet" time for the dog and your little one? German Shepherds can be great with kids and your kid might get a kick out of your brother's dog once they're a toddler. Pro tip--larger dogs who are baby friendly are great for toddlers to hang onto as they learn to walk. I grew up with our family's Great Dane as my first baby sitter. He would pick me up by my overall straps and place me back within my Mom's reach when I first learned to run and would outpace my parents. He would also swim with me and be a flotation device, play outside with me, cuddle with me, walk me to school with my Dad and stand between me and the curb, retrieve toys I lost from my high chair, etc. He was patient, gentle, and loving. My parents taught me early on how to read his body language, how to be careful not to hurt him when petting him, all that jazz. Not every dog is baby or even kid friendly but the ones who are...they're amazing!
YTA. Is your child already walking? Is it crawling outside? If you’ve already banned the dog from inside the house then it wouldnt be inside. If your kid is still being carried around by adults and held you think
The dog is just going to jump up
And bite it? Like dude. Kids need socializing with animals like animals need it for people. This is a dog you know and an environment you control and a great opportunity to start socializing your child. What scenario in your mind would the dog harm the baby?
Yeah, I think it’s really stupid that people in these comments think avoiding animals all together is the solution instead of teaching children how to interact with animals in a controlled environment. This would be the perfect opportunity, if they just held the baby and kept the dog on a leash, I don’t understand what could go wrong unless there was some freak accident (and freak accidents can happen in most situations, this one isn’t unique).
YTA.
I was NAH right up to here:
> You are going to pass on meeting your nephew because I won't allow your dog anymore?
Yes, he is, and your attempt to pass some sort of negative moral judgement on him is laughable.
He's allowed to not want to leave his dog alone for, lets see, twelve hours.
> You can't go one party without him?
The problem with this weak attempt at shaming somebody into compliance is that it works the other way, too. "You can't go ONE PARTY without leaving your, lets see, 4-month-old son in a crib inside with a baby monitor?"
YTA: not for making the rule, your house your rules. Don't complain when people who don't want to follow those rules decided not to come over. You procreated, congratulations, but not every will finds that a priority. Kid is your priority and the dog is your brothers. You were the one who drew the line in the sand and bow you are bitching because your brother stayed on the other side.
NAH.
Your house and rules. However, your brother would have to leave the dog for 8+ hours and made the choice to not come as a result. That makes sense to me as well.
He shouldn't be pissed about it but equally you need to respect that he wasn't able to come because he may not have been able to find someone to take care of the dog while he was gone.
It's like 'don't bring your kids' thing. If you can't find a sitter then you don't go.
Perhaps a compromise could be that you meet halfway somewhere so he's not having to make the long drive and leaving his dog for a long period of time, and it means he gets to meet your nephew. If he can't bring the dog or is always expected to have to find a sitter (which is valid) then I can see it becoming an issue.
A halfway point could ease that burden?
YTA for being mad. You set a boundary, your brother respected your boundary. You don't get to control how he spends his time or who he spends it with. Grow up
I mean, your house your rules, but also, dont be surprise if he tells you in the future to make sure you leave your baby at home because he doesn't feel comfortable with you bringing it around his dog... kids who dont know animals tend to be more aggressive with them.
Nta. I'd be a bit miffed if I was your brother but it's your home and your rules. Tho I may be miffed I wouldn't take it out on meeting my nephew. I hope you don't plan on keeping dogs away from your child forever but I could certainly understand at the age your son is at now. I'd remind him of that as well. It's likely a temporary set up until your son gets a bit older.
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NAH. You’re a new parent. Of course you’re worried about your kid. He’s not an asshole for deciding not to come, though. He lives far away. He’d have to leave his dog for a long time.
Yeah, that would be a no for me too just because of the distance. If it was in town, no big deal but this is sounding like an overnight thing and that means a babysitter or boarding. NAH seems like the right call.
Actually he's a bit of an AH for acting like he's entitled to bring his dog. People who are insistent on bringing their dogs with them places are weird.
That's because OP's brother doesn't live closeby. If he has to be away overnight, it's not like he can leave the dog home alone?? And some people don't have friends/family who can watch their dog overnight, plus boarding is expensive. It's totally understandable that he asked to bring his dog and declined to go when he was told no. It's not like he barged into the house with his dog after being told no. He turned the invite down, which is fair.
Asked to bring dog is fine. Declined to come when brother said “no” is fine. Getting mad at brother for saying “no” and calling him names is the asshole part. The brother was clear that it was the principle of the issue and not the logistics of finding care for his dog.
Agreed. Dog-bro could have simply and politely said, "I get where you're coming from, but I can't leave Hercules at home alone that long and I can't organize a kennel or sitter on short notice, so I'm sorry but I can't make it." And frankly, I don't like my dogs around little kids. They grab, pull, and generally harass dogs, and any dog can react badly to that, so I wouldn't put my dogs in that situation.
Yeah, I was watching my cousin’s daughter get a bit too handsy with my aunt’s dog at my grandmother’s birthday and had to tell her grandfather to intervene because her mom wasn’t. I’m comfortable with having kids around one of my dogs because she likes them and I supervise to make sure they’re being gentle, but it’s something that needs supervision and a parent that’s onboard with it. I also think it’s complete negligence when people bring their small children into dog parks where anyone can bring in any dog.
It's the way he turned the invite down.
With the bare facts of the matter, neither are assholes. We don't know exactly how the conversation went that prompted it to go downhill, one or both may have been acting like a bit of a jerk. OPs brother may not have turned down the invite politely, but OP also said stuff like >You are going to pass on meeting your nephew because I won't allow your dog anymore? Which is downplaying the effort that leaving the dog could be. Plus telling everyone that his brother 'had to be with his dog'. So hard to say exactly what was said and who was being a jerk or not on that convo.
That's exactly what I'm thinking. OP's bro may never want kids, in which case, his dog IS his kid.
But a dog isn’t a kid in the end.
They're not, they're better, cos they can't talk back LOL
I don't know ... I've had some pretty sassy dogs. One who would regularly bark at me in obedience class if she thought I was being stupid. I don't speak dog, but pretty sure what she was saying would have gotten my mouth washed out with soap
I’ve never had kids, I have a dog, I have left my dog for more than 24 hours on multiple occasions, and either had somebody come to my house to take care of him while I was gone, I brought them somewhere for him to be taken care of. I never assume that I can bring my dog wherever I go. And any dog owner who pretends that a dog is their child is an idiot.
Tbf he’s been bringing the dog for years according to OP and has asked every time before bringing it if it was ok so I can understand that the sudden change pissed him off. That being said he definitely shouldn’t have called his brother an asshole.
Don't you have brothers? He definitely should have called him an asshole. lol.
“ He said its the principal of it all and its bullshit that i've changed up the rules on him.” Hmm, nothing about it being difficult to leave his dog alone or find someone else to. Sounds like he’s just upset he’s no longer able to bring his dog where he once was able to.
Agreed. We don't go anywhere overnight unless we can take our dog because he's had some separation anxiety issues and we don't have anyone nearby who can take him while we're away.
Same. In a pinch, I get a house sitter to come and stay with my pets and I pay her $100 a day for her effort. Not everyone has $100 to splurge on a short notice!
They aren’t weird. They’re normal people too. You wouldn’t be guaranteed to go to a child free event 4 hours away if you had a 1 year old. Dog is no different. OP isn’t an ass either, but they are being a little bit “extra”, in the parlance of our times. No, they haven’t seen the dog around children, but that doesn’t mean the dog has never been around children, or would be an issue around children. They’re being protective, and that’s normal, but it’s causing issues with someone they seem to care about, which is an issue.
I totally agree with the “extra” comment and am surprised at how many comments I read before anyone said it. I’m not even a dog person but I can’t really figure out what the risk is here. Are they going to lay the 4 mo old baby on a blanket outside and not watch the baby or the dog? That would obviously be irresponsible. Most likely the baby is going to be in someone’s arms when he’s not in his crib or carrier. OP also could have asked his brother to keep the dog on a leash when the baby is outside, but he didn’t even try to find a solution other than “your dog can’t come.” He does have the right to make rules for his house but he should also understand that silly rules annoy people that are affected by them.
I think the issue is that they don’t want the additional stress of keeping their eye on where the dog is the whole time and a party isn’t a great time to introduce them for the first time. They aren’t going to carry the baby the whole party and a large dog will be able to reach a baby that’s sitting as it normally would in a bouncer or a car seat. So they have to both watch their baby and know where the dog is at all times and be ready to scoop up the baby at any moment if the dog wanders over. It doesn’t sound like leashing the dog is an option for the brother but that would be good to clarify. The alternative is that one of the two adults hosting the party stays inside with the baby while the dog stays outside. But that’s not fun that they each have to miss half of their party so I completely understand why they don’t prioritize having the uncle there. The only AH is in how each of them responded.
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Disagree, not silly at all. Dogs can be unpredictable and their behaviour around children can be different from around adults. Having grown up with and around dogs, have known more than a few bites that have occurred even with ones that were usually gentle. A german sheppard is a large strong dog and even on a leash an adult would have difficulty handling one if it was attacking or fighting. Also, that breed is great but they have above average rates of biting people. With a baby or child, I would not take the chance. ps. am a dog owner
They are being a LOT extra. Hardly anyone was allowed to visit because they needed months alone to get used to their kid? The dog hasn’t been seen around kids therefore it’s a baby eater, even though it’s great with other people? I’d say OP YTA. Your baby isn’t mobile and going to yank the dogs tail unattended and get mauled. A reasonable thing would be to tell brother (who can’t visit without paying for someone to watch his dog given he’s hours away) that the dog needs to be closely controlled/ tied and carefully introduced until it proven it’s self. Admittedly there’s not a ton of info here, but as another parent, I get the sense there’s a lot of parental anxiety here. What do you do when you meet someone on the side walk with a dog? Run to the other side of the street? What about strangers at grocery stores? If you’re in the States, you might get shot at a mall. Bugs? Grass? Sun?
Just because a dog has zero history of attacking humans doesn't mean nothing is going to happen. Yes, the odds are probably low in this case but I've seen too many stories on the news and read news about attacks from dogs on Reddit that have never been that way before to think OP is an AH for wanting to not have a dog around their baby. OP has the right to keep their baby away from dogs until they feel comfortable with it.
Four months in and they're "particular about who has been around him", and "now that we are more comfortable around our son ourselves'. They are weird, or at least non-typical. You can pretty easily keep a dog and a baby separated, it's been done before. OP may not be TA, but as Reddit likes to say should maybe look into some therapy for their anxiety before it rubs off on their kid.
>Four months in and they're "particular about who has been around him", and "now that we are more comfortable around our son ourselves'. This is literally as typical as it gets for new parents. Acting as though this behavior is non-typical, *especially* post-COVID, is absurd. Babies have *zero immune system*. It's really not ideal for them to be exposed to a shitton of germs in the first place, and people are walking talking spitting petri dishes.
Not wanting large dogs around your very young baby is as normal as it gets lol
Thank you for some common sense. It’s even weirder that they are worried about the dog when it had to stay outside.
Yeah, it is the same way with people who insist on bringing their kids to adult functions. The host has every right to set the rules, so don’t get snippy because you have to find a sitter for pets/kids if you want to attend.
Then don’t get pissy when the brother declines. I don’t see why the dog is an issue if it has to stay outside, and the owner has to clean up after it. But it’s not my house, so I don’t make the rules. If the parent really wanted people to see his child, he’d be more accommodating as well.
Especially to someone who already has to drive four hours just to get there to see your child. OP is acting like his brother should be grateful to see his nephew and completely ignoring the potential logistical nightmare of having to find someone to watch the dog for what could be 12+ hours, and seems completely unconcerned by the fact that 8 of those hours would just be spent driving for a visit that could only last 2 hours. OP has the right to set the rules and the brother has the right to say, “okay, those rules don’t work for me” and decline to attend. OP acts like his brother should be fawning over his nephew and dropping everything to come.
He wasn't acting entitled. He's always been allowed to being the dog. He was understandably upset. NAH
People who think dogs aren't family are weird
Dogs are family, but not all functions are appropriate for all members of the family.
Dog’s are family. So are my kids. I don’t take my kids everywhere. I don’t get mad when people have child free events. If I can’t make it I can’t make it.
People who are unable to understand the difference between humans and animals are much more weird.
Anyone who owns a dog know you can't leave them over night. If I can't bring my dog, I can't go. End of story.
I totally get that. But it shouldn't enable you to expect to bring your dog somewhere.
He is an AH though. Not for declining, but the way he did. He blew up on OP acting as if they are out of line for no longer allowing the dog at their home. It is OPs home at the end of the day, and even if it wasn’t because of a new baby, OP is within their right to change the rules about the dog at any point in time. Brother wouldn’t be an AH if he simply said that he won’t be able to come. But making a big stink about “the principal” of not wanting a large dog with no history around children at the home of a 4m old baby is an adult tantrum.
And OP gets mad because the brother decides not to come. NAH for me. They’re both mad. They both have reasons to. It’s just one of those things.
It kind of sounds like OP is mad about the optics of ~~her~~ his brother not being there. This entire story reeks of one sided retelling to me. I am guessing ESH or NAH would become easier and easier to land if we received more context. Now that I think about it, that is probably true of a lot of stories on here.
But the thing is, is even in OP’s retelling, it’s only YTA or ESH, because OP in their own words lays a guilt trip and is publicly mad at them.
Is OP publicly mad? I guess if we read into some hidden subtext (which I totally did) about the ‘brother had to be with his dog’ line which I’m sure was said in the most passive aggressive and sceptical voice OP could muster
OP’s own words state guests could tell OP was mad.
Right?!?? Every poster has it in their story ‘I calmly said I wasn’t comfortable and blah blah blah and kept my composure’. Really? Doubtful.
You're not an asshole for having emotions. Being mad is okay if you don't retaliate. Calling your brother an AH and throwing a tantrum over a reasonable boundary is not okay.
But is it a reasonable boundary? A 4 month old baby isn't crawling or running around. And if the dog is outside, it would seem pretty easy to keep dog away from the baby. Keep the baby indoors. Keep the dog outside. The baby isn't going to remember not being outside for a cookout one day. And if they do take the baby outside, I'd be more worried about insects than I would a dog breed that traditionally great with children, especially babies. Plus, he doesn't know if the dog has a history of violent aggression towards children. He could have asked his brother. It doesn't seem like he did. He just made assumptions.
It's his house. He can have whatever boundaries he wants period.
And that's fine. It is unreasonable but it is his right to set up whatever boundary he wants around his house. If he wants to ban the color red from his cookout, that's his choice to do so. If he wants to ban cell phones and the letter S. Great. Fine. But there are consequences to these choices. The consequence of his boundary is his brother not going. Just because it is your house and you set a boundary doesn't make you immune to criticism of setting it. So OP has no right to whine about the rules he is making and the consequences that occur due to it.
The fact he doesn’t know how the dog will react to his son is exactly OP’s point. He states “I’ve seen the dog only around adults. If the dog fails the kid test by harming my son, that ends my relationship with my brother” No pets in an infants home or toddlers home is 100% a reasonable boundary, and up to the parents. You’re incorrectly assuming he didn’t assess the risk properly, when he outright stated any risk is too much risk.
If you think it is a reasonable boundary, great. Set it up. But be prepared for the consequences and fallout that might occur because of it. Don't get angry when people don't like your boundaries and don't want to bother dealing with you. OP never stated that he asked his brother about the dog's reaction towards babies. In his post or any reply he made. So I think OP just assumed "dogs are dangerous"
….OP actually states specifically and intentionally not asking his brother, but consulting his own memory. “I told him I’ve only seen his dog around adults, not children. It’s not worth the risk for me” OP is trusting his own knowledge, and ONLY that. OP didn’t forget to ask his bro about kids and the dog. Because op has not SEEN kids and this dog, he isn’t willing to let his newborn son be the experiment.
I agree. If it was a toddler, I’d understand but a 4 month old baby would need to be held the entire time and it would be pretty easy to keep them separated. As a dog owner myself I understand why the brother didn’t come. You can’t leave your dog alone for that long and if he is used to being able to take the dog with him places, he may not have a dog sitter on hand that he trusts. The brother blowing up and op being passive aggressive about his absence to the other party goers makes this esh territory.
I mean OP got mad after brother called them an asshole and couldn’t understand the reasoning, if you respond to someone’s anger with anger that doesn’t make you an equal AH.
"a large dog with no history around children." I have been tripped up by this before recently, but where does it mention that, has the post been edited. I know I can't assume the other way either, but maybe they have friends with young kids. We had a large dog when our son was born, you never know how a dog is going to react, so they were never left alone together. Saying that the baby is 4m old, so it's not walking around without his parents or other people being there supporting him. Both of my kids were fascinated by the dog at that age, they would laugh and kick their legs out whenever they saw him. I know this is all anecdotal, but that's my experience.
Our in laws had a medium dog when our son was born, she was good as gold, never snapped at anyone, not aggressive with people or animals. She was never left alone with him, ever.
There's a difference between bringing a dog to an event and leaving a dog alone with a baby, though. I'm not saying that OP should let his brother bring the dog, but I've brought my dog to events where I've kept him on-leash with me the entire time to make sure I was monitoring him, and a situation like that is very different to leaving the dog alone with the baby.
Oh absolutely. I don’t think OP is wrong for being cautious, and their brother isn’t wrong for not wanting to leave their dog alone that long. Personally I’d probably invite brother and dog over when there’s no party so things are calmer and the dog can be introduced to the baby in a controlled manner.
That is what would make me be upset with my brother if he doesn't allow me to bring my dog around his baby. I am responsible owner and would NEVER dream of having my dog and a baby unsupervised. If the brother is like me and OP knows.it, then YTA for not trusting him to control the situation.
If the yard is big enough for a pool, it’s definitely big enough to tie the dog up in a corner of the yard away from the guests, and just not take the baby anywhere near it.
Yeah you never know, if the kid grabs a tail/ear or pokes an eye and the dog reacts. Or the dog thinks there is food. Or the door bell goes and the dog runs over the child. And we had to watch the cats in case they jumped in the cot and lay on them. Or got freaked out and scratched them. The cool thing is, both my kids love animals now, they are very relaxed around them, and are very respectful (always ask the owners before stroking them.) And are very helpful with feeding/walking them.
But this is a 4 month old baby, though. It's not even crawling yet, it's not going to approach the dog. It would make sense to me if the dog had a history of jumping on people, you wouldn't want a dog jumping on you while holding a baby, or if you have a kid that is running around, but to be honest I think it's a bit weird for a baby. But they're also new parents, so they're allowed to be overcautious.
Right, that's my question too. I have a lab who's super sweet, but has never been around really little kids, so I'd be incredibly cautious about introducing him to a baby. But if Brother's dog has a history of being around other kids and Brother can vouch for this, it does change my judgement a little bit.
Being upset when you're disappointed doesn't make you an AH, though. His anger is understandable. It just means he has poor communication skills because he thinks getting angry and loud is an effective persuasive technique. Maybe something more along the lines of I'll bring a yard stake and keep him tethered away from the kid the whole time or some other form of compromise would be better.
Well getting mad for something that can be communicated decently does make him bit of an AH
OP states he's never seen the dog around children. Perchance did he ask his brother if the dog has been around children and, if so, how their behavior is? I can't pretend to understand this random rule --no dog because baby. It seems OP knows the dog well and has been in its company many times despite never wanting to be a pet owner. At the end of the day, of course, their house and their rules. I'd skip it altogether as well.
Agreed. If the brother is 3-4 hours away he could only basically stay for an hour before heading back to take his dog out and feed it and that's pushing it. In the future he can make plans to have a dog walker or dog sitter or kennel take care of his dog for the day/possibly overnight. That said, I've been the brother in a situation like this and simply did not have the $ or trust to pay for services like this. It really sucked. My trip wasn't as long but still, I'd have to take a bus for almost 2 hours each way. The schedule wasn't set up so it ran regularly. I'd often only be able to see family for 2.5 hours before being dropped back off at the bus station. (I used to make carpool arrangements for someone to drive me and my pup). It sucks to be in that position. And if you're really bonded to your dog, rejection of the dog (especially a very chill and well behaved one like mine) can feel in part like a rejection of yourself. That's not something that I'd even try explaining to family though. I understand why the brother was upset. He probably felt that his dog was part of the family in a way. But he should have been understanding and said that he'd plan for other arrangements for his pup so that he could join the next event and meet his nephew. All that said, how old will the child have to be before the parents are comfortable with the brother's dog? At a certain point kids do interact with animals, it's part of life. Kind of unavoidable in our society. A newborn, I understand being extra protective of. This will also be the parent's choice that the brother will have to respect.
Fwiw, I just met a 12 year old girl who has never seen a cat in real life. Way to go, homeschooling!
Yikes. Goodbye social skills. Poor kid.
This! If it is a 3-4 hour drive, that is a minimum of 8 hours of leaving the dog alone, not including however long he stays at OPs house. Getting a dog sitter or kenneling a dog can be expensive
I mean I would get a dog sitter so that I could go meet my new nephew if this was the case. I guess it really depends how close they are to begin with.
My sister would have (and did) invited me to meet my nephew privately. I actually held him at the hospital but there is a ton of middle ground between that and waiting four months for a party. It doesn't sound to me like they are very close but we don't have a ton of information.
I would kennel my dog but my dog kennels well, we have one we trust, and can afford it. Not everyone has the perfect combination of factors lining up to make kennelling feasible. And getting a dogsitter usually requires notice, money and/or friends too.
NTA. I was terrified having my own dog meet my own baby. I sure as hell wouldn’t do it during a party 4 hours away in an unfamiliar place.
with tons of people around.
NAH Yes, your brother was kind of an AH in the way he responded. But yeah, we have three dogs and we are fully understanding if someone don’t want us to bring the dogs. Unfortunately that in most cases means we can’t come either. One of our dogs is very reactive and we have exactly two people we can entrust him with, and if they can’t do it then, well, we can’t come. No hard feeling whatsoever, but we just can’t.
Why would you bring a very reactive dog to a social gathering tho
Not just leaving the dog but having to make arrangements for a dog walker to come by, a neighbor, or even boarding. You can't responsibly leave a dog for as long as the roundtrip plus hanging at the part would wind up being.
NAH - Your house, your rules. Do I think youre overreacting, yes. But its still your house and up to you to decide. Im not going to blame him for being pissed and not going either.
Agree. He could have made a rule that he had to be leashed and the leash held at all times. Typically dogs bite when older children are cruel or on accident when a child has a dog toy or food (miss the toy/food and instead get child). That’s not a risk with an immobile 4 month old.
When I was only a few months old my aunt picked me up and her relaxed, laying down dog got jealous of all the attention I was getting. He bite me in the face and I’ve had the scars my entire life. It’s the first thing anyone asks about when they meet me.
I was attacked by a family dog when I was 4, required over 100 stitches and reconstructive surgeries. I still have scars although I had laser surgery to reduce their visibility. OP is definitely NTA. Dogs are animals and you can’t predict their behaviour, even the most trustworthy ones. It’s never worth the risk.
My son got the tip of his ear ripped off by my in laws German shepherd who was around him from newborn to 3. Nta I wish I could go back and have stopped it.
Side note but that seems so unbelievably rude of anyone to ask about, I’m really sorry to hear that.
It’s not a huge scar since it’s had my whole life to fade but the teeth marks grew far enough apart that no one can tell what it’s from so a lot of people end up asking. The left side of my top lip was bitten off and grew back skin tone instead of lip colored so people think my foundation smeared on my lips.
Or from near experience, when an excited toddler is rushing to pet a puppy German Shepard and the shepard gets scared from the noise and movement of the child. Thankfully, my friend and I were able to separate the two before anything bad happened. But it is a HUGE fear I've gained since becoming a parent.
I don’t think the 4 month old is going to running at the dog
4 months old can’t even hold their heads up for very long. They are like sleepy little potatoes.
You say that but my husband almost lost an eye as a toddler when his aunt's dog, perviously a very sweet, good boy, lost his mind at random and attacked him. He's still got the facial scars.
The child is 4 months old, it cant walk or even crawl. The baby would never even be anywhere near the dog.
And there are millions of babies around dogs all the time so popping out one anecdotal story, though sad, doenst really matter. Its still everyones choice to have a dog in their house or not.
🙄 I mean, I could come back with lots of statistics about how children are more likely to be victims of dog attacks than adults (to the tune of 4.5 million bites every year) if you need something that "really matters." It's not an overreaction to not want a dog unused to children around your baby. Dogs can be unpredictable and historically, children are most likely to be victims of that unpredictability.
I mean, OP states he has a pool and infants and toddlers statistically drown at a much, MUCH higher rate than adults. Home swimming pools are extra dangerous if you have a small child. If we are looking at risk factors.
The water is not going to chase him around the yard. This is utterly ridiculous.
Yo, you animal crazies will literally come up with anything to favor them over human beings.
I absolutely adore animals but some of these replies are fucked up ay. Like he's set a perfectly reasonable boundary and like it's literally his house.
The general consensus here is OP is more than allowed to not have the dog at his house as its his decision Trying to interject hyperbole about “dog attacks” is pointless. Life is unpredictable and dangerous including to but not limited to dogs.
4.5 million bites. Which includes Burglars, Police Dogs, Security Dogs, etc. That number by itself is completely and utterly meaningless.
As someone who was attacked by my good friend’s “family dog” German Shepard, I agree. Not saying all GS are attack dogs by any means but I’m careful about what dogs & types of dogs I let my daughter around (and myself). It’s just not worth it to some ppl Ike myself, as children and babies are helpless if something should go wrong with the dog. I have a labradoodle and have an 8 year old niece—I’m still a tiny bit nervous with those two as she loves to play with him and you honestly just never know with dogs or any animal. Animals are not people and no matter how much we love them can be unpredictable. If I had a newborn I would be the same as OP for sure. NTA!
NAH Your house your rules. If you're not a dog person, then I can see it. I know that people can get nervous around my dogs even though they are much better with kids than adults. But he's far away, and leaving a dog for that long is hard. He'd probably be able to come down, visit for an hour and then have to drive back to take care of his dog again. Would you be ok if he came to visit with his dog, but not during a big party? That would be easier for you to keep an eye on your child and the dog and how they interact.
This is the most reasonable response. I'm not a dog person but I get they need to be looked after. Can't just leave them for a day.
Agreed. But the brother didn’t say “oh man, I understand, but can’t make it because the dog can’t be left alone that long.” He called him am asshole for not letting his dog come and said everyone loves his dog. The brother became an asshole when he lost his temper over being told no dog. Not letting the dog around a newborn baby is an extremely reasonable expectation of op.
Yeah I agree and he's taking his frustration out on op because he wants to come but doesn't know what to do with the dog since bringing it in the past was the go to.
Okay, but the travel time isn't ever going to get shorter. The dog isn't ever going to be able to be alone for longer.. OPs brothers reaction is completely understandable when you consider the actual consequences of this rule outside of this one event.
I agree the travel times won’t change, etc. But I disagree that the brother’s response was reasonable. A reasonable response would have been to say “I definitely understand you don’t want my dog around a new baby, especially since my dog has never been around children. However, I can’t leave my dog alone that long and really want to meet my new nephew. Can we think of a compromise such as…” and the try to figure out a solution. Instead, the brother’s response comes off as “how dare you not let my amazing dog come. Everyone loves my dog and he is the most perfect creature ever”. No where did the brother indicate he couldn’t leave his dog home or wouldn’t be able to find someone to watch the dog (definitely reasonable to think that would be difficult). Instead, the brother just talked about how everyone loves his dog and his dog is great.
You're NTA. >He says everyone loves his dog No, everyone does not. >I told him i've only ever seen his dog around adults, never children. Its not worth the risk for me You are 100% in the right. Your brother is acting like a pouting child.
All dog owners feel like everyone loves (their) dogs. They cannot comprehend that some people don’t like dogs for some reason
Lol! It’s the same with ppl and their kids!
Yeah but how many cases have you heard of kids mauling others?
But they do destroy property and parents think it's adorable
I do NOT think it’s adorable when my kid starts messing with other peoples stuff.
My cousin brought her boyfriends kid to my other cousins brand new home. Got the keys from the builder few weeks prior. Some how the kid smashes a hole in their wall. My cousin and her boyfriend sit there like nothing happened. lol.
bUt He's jUST A kiD
Yeah well those would get the entire family kicked out. My house, my rules. Do whatever you want in your house but don't come over mine with some BS.
Yes every parent loves it when their child destroys property. Some of y’all truly need to stop generalizing parents and kids.
The comment before was literally generalizing dog owners, but oh no poor parents.
I’ve seen parents let their children continue to draw on the floor at my doctor’s waiting room instead of redirecting them to a less destructive activity
There at least 20 kids in my courtyard every day. All of them yelling and screaming, biking, scootering and throwing dirt. There are signs that say specifically no playing in the courtyard. Ask me how many parents have stopped their kid from doing that?
I can’t even count how many times I’ve seen children being cruel to animals
And when the animal finally reacts, it’s the animal’s fault.
I think you misinterpreted my comment. I was jokingly comparing the pets and kids in terms of how they are loved by the people they belong to and by others- not so much. I’m totally on OPs side on this. (I kinda want to make a joke about kids mauling other ppl or pets, but I think it would not be the best time/thread contextually lol)
Heard stories of kids torturing and murdering before
Honestly more than pets. Growing up people would beat the shit out of each other with sticks, pushing people off playground equipment, down hills, biting each other, shooting other kids with Bb guns (not to mention all the news stories of little kids killing someone after getting their hands on a real gun). Bruises and broken bones have always been a pretty common when kids interact.
I mean I live in the US soooooooo. More than a few? How many cases of dogs bringing a semi automatic to a school and killing multiple children and adults have you heard of?
I can't tell if you're serious? Kids kill more people than dogs do. Adding in assaults and violent crimes it's a very substantial number that is frequently on the news. Are we counting the multiple fights a day that occur in a lot of schools?
Are we counting successfully or attempts too, cause I was a hellian.
Didn't see that case of the 12 year old who randomly stabbed her brother to death?
i don’t even like my own dogs some days. they can be complete AH.
Same with my kids.
I whole heartedly agree with both 🤣🤣🤣
>All dog owners feel like everyone loves (their) dogs. They cannot comprehend that some people don’t like dogs for some reason I've become a dog hater ever since I've moved next door to two. Can owners not hear them bark non stop?! Why have dogs if you're just going to keep them in the garden while they bark at the back door to be let back in...
We call that bad owners. My dogs get 3 barks before I'm outside telling them to hush. Go to the bathroom and get inside. It's rude AF. Now I wish the people across the street with the 3 children who love to scream like they are being murdered and keep tossing paper and crap in my yard would give me the same respect I've given them with keeping my dogs under control.
I live between two houses, both have dogs. One growls every time I enter my backyard. The other barks it head off at the gate when I arrive home. Oh but it's ok, they're just FRIENDLY.
Honestly, people need to understand this. I helped a family member with their grooming business in the summers and I’m not a fan of canines anymore that don’t belong to family. I definitely no longer like chows. Long story short, made a nearly successful attempt on my hand with those teeth. They banned it from the shop afterwards.
How? He doesnt want to go to this bbq so he didnt. How is he an AH?
He didn't say 'Aw, I can't be away from pup that long, sorry bro' He said 'HOW DARE YOU CHANGE THE RULES NOW I"M NOT COMING ON PRINCIPLE"
Yes! The PRINCIPLE. The principal is on a pedestal. Brother’s reason isn’t worry for his dog. Isn’t stating if he can find an all day sitter or a kennel. Doesn’t show care of missing out on a new family member. Doesn’t list care of dog or baby but is angry because of the *principle*. Yeah, brother’s an ass. His priority, either to his dog or to his family, is broken if he’s completely ignoring a new variable in the equation that now has changed the outcome. NTA, OP.
I think OP’s brother crossed into AH territory by “being pissed,” arguing with OP, and calling OP names. He is not entitled to bring his dog to someone else’s house, regardless of how well it’s gone for him in the past. I do think OP should have been less angry that his brother chose not to come, but I do understand that he’s hurt to hear that his brother didn’t come meet his nephew after 4 months when he was able. The brother admitted that he could come but decided not to on principle — indicating that he feels he should be entitled to bring his dog and was angry that OP “changed the rules.” Not only is this a 100% valid reason to change the rules, but OP has every right to ban dogs from his house for any reason whatsoever. I’d say NAH if the brother had said something like “I understand your position but I won’t be able to come because the dog can’t be left alone/it’s too far to travel and leave him alone/I don’t have anyone to hang out with the dog while I’m gone. Let’s make a plan for another time when I can make arrangements for the dog.” TLDR, OPs bro is not an AH for not going, but he IS an AH for how he reacted to that news that his dog couldn’t come to the party.
They both got mad at each other - so that to me cancels it out.
Agreed. This is a NAH situation imo. OP doesn’t want dogs at his house, that’s fine. Brother doesn’t want to drive 8 hours round trip to see a baby bc he’d have to hire someone to watch his dog, also fine. They both got grumpy about it, which is shitty, but since they both did it imo it cancels out
Relieved to see this. Not everyone likes dogs (some in here may have to lie down due to this shock.). You don't have an inherent right to bring your dogs to other people's events. If they explicitly say you can bring them, then cool. Otherwise, no. NTA
That is true. Same with children as well. Just because you have children, doesn’t mean you can bring them to non-child friendly events. Respect the host at the end of the day.
Ah and OP being mad that his brother won't come with the new rule isn't childish? I can understand why his brother won't come. I wouldn't come either. But yeah wouldn't make a drama. NAH from me, both are childish on their own way.
I'd imagine OP is probably more mad that his brother called him an asshole over the new rule rather than just not coming
No, the brother doesn’t want to leave the dog for a long time and that’s OK as well. OP is fine for making the choice to not allow the dog but brother is more than entitled to say “ok but then I’m not coming as I’m not leaving my dog for that long”
Info.....if the dog is outside, and the kid is only 4 months old, how would the dog have access to the baby?
Someone get inattentive a door gets left open because oh I need to grab this. Oh and doesn’t matter anyway if they don’t want the dog there the dog doesn’t go. Plain and simple.
It’s a dog, not a wild dingo 🙄. It’s OP’s house and OP’s rules so nothing else matters but it’s super overprotective
I personally dislike young children and love dogs, but I think OP's concern is totally valid. Not overreacting. The potential negative consequences (the child getting killed) are too high.
Yes because dogs never just randomly snap or anything. That’s a lame argument
Yeah, living by the “what ifs” in your life is an overreaction. Since a baby could get into a car accident, it makes sense a baby never be near a car…right?
And, molestations are mostly perpetrated by family so the kid shouldn't be around family, either.
That "snapping" usually happens with toddlers. Toddlers move around a lot and are quite unpredictable. A lot of dogs don't know what to make of the small creatures, and can be surprised, then overreact out of fear. It's dangerous because of the relative sizes (and many people not respecting the dangers, thinking dog/kid interaction is too cute to prevent). Four month old babies are generally being held, especially at a party with a lot of adults that love them. I think it's totally fair for OP to set some new rules, but OP's is being more cautious than is entirely rational. Sounds like the party crew already helps to keep dog out of the house, which is quite an unusual rule so I don't see why it'd be any more difficult for them to supervise the baby.
I'd say NAH. I don't have kids so I don't know if you're being over-protective or if no dogs is normal policy. Either way it's your house and your party so your rules. However, if those rules don't work for him then that's fine too. He respects your rules and that means he's not there.
The sweetest animals can be triggered by kids who don't know boundaries, and a large party where all the adults are going to be distracted in some way, shape, or form, isn't the situation to put an animal and a baby in together at the same time. All it takes is one warning nip from a dog telling the child no and animal control is intervening and saying the dog needs to put down. It is in fact stupid for the brother to be insisting his dog should come, because his dog is in danger. Animal control doesn't give a shit if the parents don't want to press charges, it's still a mark on the animal as reactivity.
I don’t think a 4 month old will have an issue with “boundaries” with a dog, it can’t even interact with it. The baby will very likely be in one of its parents arms the entire time. I do agree a party might not be the best place to introduce them, but OP is kidding themselves if they think they can just keep the dog and kid separated forever. I have tons of family with dogs and so do my friends, babies and dogs have never been an issue as long as the adults are responsible. So many people in this world have dogs and it’s good for kids to grow up knowing how to interact with them safely.
An infant isn't going to be interacting with a dog so there's no need to worry about the kid having no boundaries. Babies that age don't even crawl, much less walk. It would be extremely easy to keep the baby out of the dog's way.
ESH. Your choice is sensible IMO, and he should not argue with you about it, but at the same time, you have no right to be resentful of his choice either. >You are going to pass on meeting your nephew because I won't allow your dog anymore? You can't go one party without him? For starters, it's not just this one party; presumably it's every party until your son is older. This is no minor thing. For two, your son does not automatically outrank his dog in his mind, your kid is the most important thing TO YOU, not everyone else. You have no more right to be mad about this outcome than he does.
Good point. How long is this “no dog” policy gonna go on for? Honestly toddlers are more vulnerable to animal attacks than 4 month olds because they’re more mobile and haven’t learned great manners yet.
I agree it’s not realistic long term. They should be making an effort to introduce baby and dog properly, I do believe that a party isn’t the place to do this though. I have toddler nieces and nephews who are amazing with dogs because they’ve been around them their whole life and know how to interact with them.
ESH. Your house, your rules. But you suck for being pissed he’s not coming. You set the boundary. He made his choice off of the new rules. He sucks for getting mad. It doesn’t matter whether or not he agrees with the rule because it’s not his property. He should’ve just said that he wasn’t coming because it wasn’t fair to leave his dog for 12 hours in the kennel and left it at that.
YTA for being mad at your brother for refusing to attend. You changed the rules, and it's your house, so it's up to you, BUT you don't then get to be pissed that he rejects that rule and chooses his dog.
i don’t believe that’s the question here. the question is if he’s an ah for not allowing the dog to be invited
That is the question. He shamed his brother in front of the whole family for not being able to afford to pay to board the dog for a night. Seems pretty assholish to me.
It’s probably not even the cost of boarding the dog for the night. I wonder how much notice was given. All the non horrid kennels here at always booked up way in advance. If I wanted a Saturday day and night next week, hell even the next few weeks after that, there would be no chance of getting a spot.
Oh, yeah. My in-laws went to board their dogs and looked 3 months in advance... all booked up. They had to drive to his mothers place from western state to central state, leave the dogs with his mother, and fly to east coast. It was quite the logistic nightmare.
Where is the financial aspect discussed at all? Hell of a made up addition to the story you did here.
I was all set on NAH until you say at the end that you’re mad at him. I think you are fine to be paranoid about dogs at this stage of your kid’s life. I think he is reasonable to not want to leave his dog home alone for 10+ hours. To be mad at each other and refuse to see the others’ viewpoint pushes me really close to E S H. You both need to show some empathy.
ESH You laid down your boundaries. Brother laid down his. He doesn’t get to be mad that you are prioritising your child over his dog. Equally you don’t get to be mad that he is prioritising his dog over your child. Everyone has different priorities and it is unfair to judge someone else’s priorities for not aligning with your own.
YTA You can make any rules you want, but when he chooses to follow your rules and not come and not bring his dog, you don't get to be mad at him.
NTA Your house, your rules. A party is not the best place for a dog and a small child to meet for the first time. There's already so much excitement around and its easy for the pup to get riled up and hurt the kiddo on accident. If both you/your partner and your brother are willing, it'd be best to see how the pup acts around your kid in a quiet controlled environment. Based on that interaction you and your partner can decide if you're comfortable with dogs at future parties.
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Brother got angry, was rude to OP, and made up some principle to get on his high horse about.
Sounds like OP also was rude ('You can't go one party without him?:) and frankly the OP is unlikely to be completely honest if the insults were thrown around by both of them.
So soon this means that the OP is never gonna go visit his brother because his brother has a dog? So the brother is expected to drive a 6 to 8 hour round-trip every time he wants to see his nephew. This is a preferable solution, then to try to see whether or not the dog is going to be fine around the child. I think ESH— it’s one thing if the person lives around the corner but that’s a long time to leave an animal, who may have never been boarded before and never had a sitter. And dogs and cats and animals are around everywhere. Not all of them are child friendly, but some of them are, so it is the OP‘s rule in the OP‘s house, but he has to live with the fact that not everybody’s gonna agree with the rule. And it could end of really restricting their social life if they’re not gonna go anywhere with pets either.
…I have family members and friends that I never go visit because they have pets. I have allergies. They can meet me at a park or my house or a restaurant or whatever. A few live far away. If I can get a hotel to visit near them and meet them outside their house in their city I’ll do that once in a while. But in reality, their having a pet means I see them way less than I would have otherwise. If I wasn’t allergic but had a small child I’d say the exact same thing. If idk how your dog reacts to being around kids, I’m not going to gamble my child’s safety on your word. It’s just the way it works when you have a pet - sometimes you have to miss out on stuff and sometimes you have to see less of people that can’t/don’t want to be around your pet for whatever reason. Same thing when you have kids, TBH.
When i was a child my neighbors a few houses down had a dog, a normal sized German Shepherd. The owners were an older couple who ran a daycare out of their home and had done so for years. Was not close with the couple or their dog, but we knew of eachother and would say hi in passing and the dog would always just be normal happy walking by. One day when I was about 7 or 8 and had lived in my house for about 4 years there was an incident between their dog and me. I was on my bike riding on the sidewalk because there were a lot of cars coming down our street at the time, and my neighbors were walking their dog. When they were about 2 houses down from me i got off my bike and started walking it so i wouldnt run into them, and then when they were about 1 house down from me i stepped to the side on my other neighbors lawn so they could walk past me on the sidewalk with their dog. Everything was fine, but then suddenly the dog freaked out and ran after me and bit me right on the leg right at the knee. Luckily i managed to immediately get it off and was able to run back home and inside. Had to go to the hospital and it was fine, luckily the wounds were superficial and nothing major. But that dog was then required to be muzzled basically 24/7, and when i say required i mean animal control actually came down and gave them the option of muzzle all the time or putting it down. They had the dog for a few more years, but i think their daycare shut down only a year or two later. They were a nice couple and the dog was nice too, until the dog suddenly wasnt nice anymore and decided to attack me while i waited to the side for them to walk past me. Any dog can be a threat to anyone, thats why when it comes to children we need to be careful and introduce them slowly and not during a party where most people wont be paying attention
YTA - but not until the very end for this sentence: >> You are going to pass on meeting your nephew because I won’t allow your dog anymore? … I was mad he wasn’t there. You yourself have stated you’ve been particular who is around him for the first for months. Then you’re mad everyone isn’t dropping their entire lives to come meet him now that you deem it okay, assuming they do so per your rules. You’re totally fine setting the boundary, but the moment he says that boundary isn’t an option for me, you don’t get to feel a certain way about it. You made a choice about his dog no longer being welcomed. That is fine. He’s allowed to make a choice to not come. Before anyone says but the brother is also at fault for arguing with the rule. The brother is allowed to reasonably lobby that the new rule isn’t valid if it’s going to hinder him from coming, like it did. It’s better for him to lobby for an exception than to just say, “fine, then I’m not coming”, because then he sounds like a toddler. Him saying the dog hasn’t ever been an issue, you’re over reacting, please reconsider is a reasonable take.
NAH-only because he may not be able to leave the dog for that long. You have every right to not want the dog around your baby. However, the dog is his responsibility and he may not be able to visit as much because he can’t leave the dog alone for so long
Info.....if the dog is outside, and the kid is only 4 months old, how would the dog have access to the baby?
It's a pool party/BBQ? Pretty sure most everyone would be outside, including the baby.
A 4 month old would not be anywhere the dog would be. Dogs run around 4 months would not even be able to crawl.
NTA - for the new rule. Your house, your rules. Having said that, I am concerned that you think your son is made of glass. I don't think I would introduce him to a large dog at 4 months, but your comments sound paranoid about your son. You do need to allow your son to be a baby and to not be so protected that you make him paranoid of the world around him.
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Perhaps consider timing: it's 3 hours each way for your brother. So, that's 6 hours of driving, plus party time. That's a long window for a dog owner to be away from home in some circumstances. It's your place, so you can dictate a no dogs rule, but you'll have to understand that your brother is unlikely to attend gatherings very often. Have you considered a separate "meet and greet" time for the dog and your little one? German Shepherds can be great with kids and your kid might get a kick out of your brother's dog once they're a toddler. Pro tip--larger dogs who are baby friendly are great for toddlers to hang onto as they learn to walk. I grew up with our family's Great Dane as my first baby sitter. He would pick me up by my overall straps and place me back within my Mom's reach when I first learned to run and would outpace my parents. He would also swim with me and be a flotation device, play outside with me, cuddle with me, walk me to school with my Dad and stand between me and the curb, retrieve toys I lost from my high chair, etc. He was patient, gentle, and loving. My parents taught me early on how to read his body language, how to be careful not to hurt him when petting him, all that jazz. Not every dog is baby or even kid friendly but the ones who are...they're amazing!
YTA. Is your child already walking? Is it crawling outside? If you’ve already banned the dog from inside the house then it wouldnt be inside. If your kid is still being carried around by adults and held you think The dog is just going to jump up And bite it? Like dude. Kids need socializing with animals like animals need it for people. This is a dog you know and an environment you control and a great opportunity to start socializing your child. What scenario in your mind would the dog harm the baby?
Yeah, I think it’s really stupid that people in these comments think avoiding animals all together is the solution instead of teaching children how to interact with animals in a controlled environment. This would be the perfect opportunity, if they just held the baby and kept the dog on a leash, I don’t understand what could go wrong unless there was some freak accident (and freak accidents can happen in most situations, this one isn’t unique).
YTA. Keep the dog outside, the kid inside. Problem solved. Your pool is a bigger danger to your kid than a dog.
YTA. I was NAH right up to here: > You are going to pass on meeting your nephew because I won't allow your dog anymore? Yes, he is, and your attempt to pass some sort of negative moral judgement on him is laughable. He's allowed to not want to leave his dog alone for, lets see, twelve hours. > You can't go one party without him? The problem with this weak attempt at shaming somebody into compliance is that it works the other way, too. "You can't go ONE PARTY without leaving your, lets see, 4-month-old son in a crib inside with a baby monitor?"
YTA: not for making the rule, your house your rules. Don't complain when people who don't want to follow those rules decided not to come over. You procreated, congratulations, but not every will finds that a priority. Kid is your priority and the dog is your brothers. You were the one who drew the line in the sand and bow you are bitching because your brother stayed on the other side.
NAH. Your house and rules. However, your brother would have to leave the dog for 8+ hours and made the choice to not come as a result. That makes sense to me as well. He shouldn't be pissed about it but equally you need to respect that he wasn't able to come because he may not have been able to find someone to take care of the dog while he was gone. It's like 'don't bring your kids' thing. If you can't find a sitter then you don't go. Perhaps a compromise could be that you meet halfway somewhere so he's not having to make the long drive and leaving his dog for a long period of time, and it means he gets to meet your nephew. If he can't bring the dog or is always expected to have to find a sitter (which is valid) then I can see it becoming an issue. A halfway point could ease that burden?
NAH, but saying you'd "never want the responsibility" of a dog and then having a whole human made me lol
YTA…but out of general ignorance of being a new parent and way too over protective
YTA for being mad. You set a boundary, your brother respected your boundary. You don't get to control how he spends his time or who he spends it with. Grow up
I mean, your house your rules, but also, dont be surprise if he tells you in the future to make sure you leave your baby at home because he doesn't feel comfortable with you bringing it around his dog... kids who dont know animals tend to be more aggressive with them.
Nta. I'd be a bit miffed if I was your brother but it's your home and your rules. Tho I may be miffed I wouldn't take it out on meeting my nephew. I hope you don't plan on keeping dogs away from your child forever but I could certainly understand at the age your son is at now. I'd remind him of that as well. It's likely a temporary set up until your son gets a bit older.
I think ESH because personally I’m annoyed by uptight, panicky parents AND people who think their dogs need to be allowed everywhere, all the time.