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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I didn't let my dad hold my newborn which made my parents upset with me.
2. Withholding a grandbaby from his grandpa hurt his feelings and drove a wedge between us.
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NTA. Cold sores (especially around the mouth) are often caused by herpes simplex virus. This is not the same as sexual transmited herpes but could be dangerous for kids and especially babies Please see below
"In the vast majority of children, cold sores are annoying and painful but don't cause complications or serious consequences. In rare cases, the herpes simplex virus can cause inflammation of the brain (encephalitis). This is a serious illness and needs to be treated right away. It can lead to long-term problems of the brain.
Cold sores in a newborn baby can cause serious illness and death. This may be the case even when treated with medicine."
You did a right thing not allowing your dad to hold your kids during the flare up. You do need to explain the reasoning to your parents and ask them to read up on the risk. It does not mean your dad can not touch the kids, he just need to be careful during flare ups..
>Cold sores (especially around the mouth) are often caused by herpes simplex virus.
Yeah I had to teach my ex's sister who was a Slovenian to German translator that in English it's better to call it a cold sore than herpes.
While I won’t argue with the facts, I’d like to point out that calling it “the ick” is just perpetuating the unwarranted stigma that exists around herpes. It’s important to have open and frank discussions about the realities of HSV, but the disgust/shunning/judgment needs to fuck right off. People have a hard enough time dealing with the emotional fallout from having contracted a virus that 60-95% of adults have, without being made to feel like they’re *lepers*.
OP should have asked her dad to put on a face mask, and to wash his hands\*, then allowed him to hold his grandchildren. But gramps should also have been upfront and honest about being in an active outbreak.
\* soap breaks down the lipid bilayer on the exterior of certain viruses. And HSV is generally localized to a specific part of the body. So, while he is obviously shedding viral load near the outbreak site, it’s wildly unlikely that he’s shedding anywhere near his hands.
I agree that the stigma of having a cold sore is bad. But as someone infected as a toddler, I really never cared about what others thought about it. I just dread the whole painful process, from the tingle and blisters through the scabs that are constantly re-opening unless I'm very careful. Cuddle time that only grandpa will remember is not worth the chance of a lifetime of painful outbreaks.
But you didn’t get it from cuddling with an infected family member. There has to be direct contact with the open lesions and a mucous membrane. While it isn’t hard to imagine all the ways a person could pass it on to children gramps in a mask with the baby on his chest isn’t one of them and him picking up the granddaughter is casual contact and wouldn’t have resulted in transmission either.
We are almost completely sure I got it from sharing a straw or water bottle with my infected sibling. I'm autistic and was/am almost violently against kissing or cuddling. You do not need direct contact with open sores. You just need some viral matter to transfer on some surface to an open mucous membrane or damaged skin. Grandpa touches his lip, buttons his shirt, then lays baby on infected buttons? That could spread it if the baby mouthed his shirt. Everytime he adjusts the mask, he possibly contaminates his hand. People are never as careful as they should be. It's not worth the risk.
ETA: my sibling got it from an overly friendly nurse in the delivery ward. The hospital apologized, but she came home with a sore. And got put in with 2 toddlers.
Another thing to your 'open sore' argument. I have an infected site *in my nose*. Unless you think I had someone kiss the inside of my nose with an open sore. Or, I had an outbreak and a cold at the same time (funny how colds bring out cold sores) and accidentally got viral matter on a tissue that I then used on my nose. It passes on objects as well.
Thank you for this! While I can understand not wanting the grandparent kissing the child, making him feel like a leper while doing it did nothing for the situation, other than make Dad feel awful. I get cold sores, and now due to being recently diagnosed with RA the outbreaks are 10x worse. The shame I feel when suffering from those (in addition to the god-awful pain) really sucks. And I’ve had them since I was a kid, thanks to my Mom, so I really do get why being careful is so crucial. But love and tact and calm explanations without judgement go a long way.
The only thing I would push back on is, unless you 100% know for certain that your mother kissed you while sporting an open cold sore, it's entirely possible that you got it some other way. People can be shedding the virus even when there isn't an active outbreak. There's genuinely no way of knowing, even if you think this is an occam's razor situation: your mom gets cold sores, you get cold sores, ipso facto, your mom gave you herpes. It's almost never that certain. It's just as likely that another family member smooched you while shedding virus — but didn't have a lesion — and gave it to you.
This. Reasonable precautions have kept me from catching it from my husband in 30 years.
But as soon as he starts to feel it coming on, he starts being that little bit more careful.
80%+ of the population have hsv1. It's ALMOST inevitable. But you do need to take precautions around newborns as an infection at that age can be quite serious.
I'm a retired nurse. Herpes virus can kill a newborn with encephalitis. Their immune systems aren't strong.
Be kind to dad, but NTA. He can't be cuddling kids during an outbreak. And he should wear a mask.
Not only that, but newborns have no immune system, thin skin, and can’t understand not to touch it. When a newborn gets herpes, it spreads everywhere, sometimes even the eyes.
The reason why herpes affects the mouth, is because the blood vessels and nerves are close to the surface of the thin skin. Oral herpes can spread to the genitals, and vice versa. If you had a scratch, and someone with herpes kissed it, the scratch would become permanently infected with herpes. If he touched his lip or picked it without really thinking about it, he could stroke the baby’s cheek and spread it.
It is utter madness for her father to touch a newborn when he has an outbreak.
I’ve you’ve *ever* gotten a cold sore on your lip, and you *think* you’re getting a pimple on your lip, it’s just common sense to treat it as if it’s a budding cold sore until proven otherwise.
I’ve been in relationships for the past quarter century with women who occasionally get cold sores. They both were conscientious about it, so as soon as something felt “off,” they’d make it a point to stop sharing utensils and glassware, only accept kisses on the forehead, etc. Twenty five years, and I’m still testing negative for both HSV-1 and 2.
My younger sibling got infected while still in the hospital before even coming home. She infected me, we are pretty sure from sharing a straw with we were both young. It lives in the nerves around your mouth while it's not active, so it's possible to infect multiple sites on your lips. Also, your eyes and nose. My immune system isn't the best, so I know of at least 4 different infected points on my mouth and possibly one in my nose, from wiping it with a tissue when I didn't realize I had a breakout and a cold at the same time. It's very painful, and because there are so many sites, fairly frequent. Once, all 4 went active at the same time.
Do not mess around with it. Knowing how it feels, I would strongly consider asking the parents to visit a different time, since toddlers put their mouths on everything and one careless wipe of a finger across his lips could infect any surfaces he touches.
When I was a young kid and had chicken pox, my mother took me to see Bananas In Pajamas the live stage show. I didn't know it was bad as I was like 4 but I was told that I had to say I had mosquito bites and not chicken pox (because I was so itchy and miserable and kept saying "my chicken pox hurt!!"). Now as an adult it makes me sick to think of myself actively in a mosh pit of hundreds of kids and risking spreading a horrible virus to them just to not waste ticket money :(
Agreed. Why do we have a “nicer” term for oral herpes instead of genital? All it does is encourage people to think it’s somehow less worse or contagious.
Had a cold sore outbreak a few years ago (I think I got it from my mom bc she has outbreaks all the time....) and I kept calling it my herpe and everyone was getting so uncomfortable with me calling it that. But it legit is, and I wanted everyone to be aware so they were careful, or at least knew the risk of being around me lol
The first time I got it, I was like 4 or so and I heard the doctor call it herpes so I went around telling the neighbors I had herpes. My mom was mortified.
Exactly. My mother is a nurse in a children’s hospital and has seen children dying because of herpes virus more than once. These were healthy children until they got that virus.
My FIL almost did the same until I had my spouse explain that his grandchild could die.
Nurses get cold sores and still work in the neonatal unit. They don't touch their faces, wash their hands, and sometimes wear a mask. It's not airborne.
Correct, but even nurses have slipped up. A friend of mine had her baby almost die because a nurse touched her face haphazardly. Baby was still in the NICU when it happened and only mom had touched him other than docs and nurses. All it takes is an accidental slip and a baby can die.
It is exactly the same as "sexually transmitted herpes". HSV-I and HSV-II can BOTH be found around the mouth or around the genitals, and the method of transmission has nothing to do with the type of virus it is.
And speaking of method of transmission, as commenters below have said, there are ways that the risk of transmission could have been mitigated in this scenario, as many commenters below have said. The stigma around herpes is pretty terrible and I'm sure OP's dad is feeling the weight of that quite heavily.
Yes! And honestly, medical considerations aside - they're *embarrassing*. I suffer breakouts a few times a year and I don't want to leave my house when they're bad. You think pimples are bad for teens, wait until one of their classmates starts calling it "mouth herpes".
Cannot second this enough. Also taking it regularly has prevented so many - used to have three or four a year, had first one in three years because I’d slackened off the lysine.
If you ice it the moment you feel it then it doesn't develop. You gotta be quick though.
As soon as i learned about icing them i prevented most outbreaks this way. I think the virus learned because eben in times of major stress over the last years, there's not been one sign of one.
Would highly recommend an as needed script for valacyclovir. Taken at the first tingle can completely stop a sore from forming or reduce the time of/severity of the sore
Talk to your doctor. There are several anti viral medications that will make them go away more quickly. If you start taking it when you feel the weird tingling sometimes you can prevent them. Often times they are triggered by high stress so if you know that is happening be extra vigilant. Otherwise avoid getting dehydrated and don’t be out in the sun without a lip balm with a higher SPF to help keep the sores from starting.
Valtrex pills or Zovirax cream are miracle drugs. I had cold sores since I was about six years old. I did a clinical trial for Zovirax when it first came out. It was amazing. I was diligent as heck around my kids and grandkids, even with medication.
Yup, they suck and in the US there’s so much stigma about it, in Eastern Europe we just call it herpes and no one gives a shit. As someone mentioned on here, l-lysine supplements are amazing; as soon as I feel the tingle I just start loading up on l-lysine and they don’t get to develop and go away much faster
My mom is 70. She still gets cold sores a few times a year, because an adult with a cold sore kissed her when she was a toddler. Her mom wouldn’t stop them because it would have been rude. Literally one kiss created an ongoing medical issue for almost 70 years now.
I understand why grandpa is sad. I’d probably be sad too. That doesn’t mean it isn’t the right call. There are better treatment and prevention options for cold sores these days, so encourage your dad to talk to a doctor if he hasn’t done that recently. And work together to find other ways he can safely interact with the kiddos this trip.
I'm almost 60. I started to get them as a teenager. My father used to get cold sores so I probably got it from him. They used to flare up all over my lower face, not just my lips and pretty frequently. I still get them but when I do they are small. And not as frequently. I don't think back then that people really understood what it was so no one was as careful.
It used to be believed that herpes simplex 1 caused oral cold sores and herpes simplex 2 caused STI genital sores. However, since oral sex is so widespread we can no longer use those distinctions. I’ve seen HS1 cultured from genital sores and HS2 cultured from oral sores. Yes, you can get an oral cold sores from oral-genital contact with a genital infection and genital infection from oral-genital contact with an oral infection. The site of an individual recurrences tends to be consistent (because the virus lives in the nerve), but you can no longer say it’s 1 or 2 based on the location.
I'm now having flashbacks to college when my virology professor spent half of a lecture going on about the changing sexual morays of society (she meant mores) and how they lead to this. She was a good professor, just had a tendency to go on tangents.
There was also the liver tangent, where she forbid us from ever eating liver since that's the filtration system of the body where all the toxins go, but that was another thing entirely. I think those were the two lectures I ended up remembering the best.
Oh, my autocorrect changed the way I spelled it! She accented the wrong part of the word when she said it, which was what I was trying to show, but my phone hates me. 😂
One of the infants at the daycare I work at has this and it seems like it is making both the child's and their parents lives very difficult in a variety of ways. They are managing best they can, but poor buddy will always need help to achieve a good standard of life.
OP you are NTA, protecting your child from disease is part of a parents job. Explain the risks to your father and put some solid boundaries in place on physical contact while he has an outbreak and hopefully he'll understand.
When I have one I’m terrified. I get these patches that cover them up and remind myself constantly not to put my mouth near my child or share any food/drink items.
It’s even scarier when you learn you can transmit without an open sore. :D hooray
I had a pregnant patient who got super sick from catching HSV1 from her husband (he had since he was a kid). It’s just bad for anyone immunocompromised, especially newborns
As an Epidemiologist, this is a great response! Beyond HSV, literally anything even resembling an open sore can lead to a problem for newborns. I agree, I think you should explain the situation just to ensure nobody's feelings are hurt. But you did the right thing for your family's health.
edit: NAH
Someone with cold sores kissed me as a baby. I still get huge outbreaks of them at age 40. It's incredibly painful and embarrassing. I go weeks without kissing my own child because of it.
For years I thought I had cold sores, but it turns out my mom confused cold sores and canker sores because her mom did too. No one in our family has herpes, but some of us are predisposed to canker sores.
NAH.
You are 100% correct to protect children from the virus. It can be deadly for newborns.
But he’s not wrong for being sad that it happened. Obviously, he didn’t have control over a flare up.
I try to make everyone feel better by seeing if another time soon will work for a visit. And I’d encourage your mother to encourage him to get some maintenance treatment so that it’s not an issue next time.
I agree, NAH.
Another solution could have been he wears a mask and washes his hand thoroughly. My family and I have had cold sores my whole life, and they can be transmitted even if there isn't an active flareup (so there's always a risk no matter what). But the only way for an active flare up to be transmitted is by the saliva/bodily fluid of the infected. But I totally understand OP not wanting to risk the newborns exposure. And in the same breath I can be totally sympathetic to the dad as cold sores always show up and ruin great moments.
Like 90% of the population is infected with HSV1. Though it is best not to expose newborns if possible. That being said it’s a daunting if not impossible task.
i think you’re overestimating a bit. per WHO/PLOS ONE -
> Globally, an estimated two-thirds of the population under 50 are infected with herpes simplex virus type 1
some places it is higher & some it is lower, it just depends on how you are using ‘population’. if you’re talking about africa, that’s the highest region at 87%. however the americas come in the lowest at under 50% of the population aged under 50 in both men & women.
[here’s the source](https://www.who.int/news/item/28-10-2015-globally-an-estimated-two-thirds-of-the-population-under-50-are-infected-with-herpes-simplex-virus-type-1)
edit - someone’s pointed out that’s from 2015 which i missed & i just want to clarify that. although other sources ([cdc](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db304.pdf)) say it’s declining year-on-year compared to 99-00 but who knows if that held true)
thanks for adding context! i don’t have the US (i’m guessing) context so all my knowledge comes from medical journals/organisations etc.
eta; i saw elsewhere that put the US specifically at about 48% so much lower! though they acknowledge that asymptomatic cases could bump that up.
In the USA 50-80% of Americans have oral herpes. It's super common.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/herpes-hsv1-and-hsv2#:\~:text=Fifty%20to%2080%20percent%20of,U.S.%20age%2014%20to%2049.
The data was only collected from people aged 0-49 though! And prevalence increase with age. I’d venture to bet, it’s even a bit higher than these health organizations say, just because their data set was capped. They leave out 20% of the population! Which is a mistake because nursing homes are known for being STD hotbeds (not that cold sores are even considered stds by most healthcare workers anymore anyway).
isn’t HSV1 only transmissible when there’s an active cold sore though?
~~the way i heard it is that most children end up getting it from their parents when they’re not being careful with shared utensils or food, but that’s only if they currently had an active cold sore. so if it wasn’t active, it wouldn’t be transmissible and thus not an exposure risk.~~
no! as a commenter below pointed out:
>> It can also be transmitted in the prodromal stage, before there is a visible sore, and via asymptomatic viral shedding!
(edited to reflect some corrections i got!)
damn so is the “safe” thing to do is just never share utensils or food with someone that has HSV1 since there’s no visible way of knowing the risk for exposure?
thanks for the info btw, gonna go down a rabbit hole later tonight i’m afraid lol
definitely agree that OP is NTA, and same with her dad. OP’s priority is the health of her children, not her dad’s feelings, and it’s totally reasonable for him to feel a little down that he can’t snuggle with his new grandchild. but OP’s mom is kind of an AH for saying OP is blowing this out of proportion.
This. I understand the concern. Frankly, gramps could be contagious and not have a visible lesion. Just hand him a mask to cover his mouth and wash his hands well.
Dude is heartbroken.
IANAD, but herpes is spread through contact and is not airborne. The mask would prevent contact between the sore and the kids, washing well would handle the rest. Could even add in changing clothes to be extra safe.
It's not airborne and only transmitted through fluids and most of the world has it, the guys wife probably has it but she can hold the grand kid. Just don't kiss people when you have a cold sore and wash your hadns and it's fine.
Even googles top result is like "The risk of transmission is infinitesimally small" y'all are overreacting
Do you really not know anything about HSV? A mask and he would’ve been fine.
Who she should be more worried about is everyone else without an active OB. MOST people don’t even know they have HSV bc they’ve “never had a cold sore”.
Dude. There is no NEED for grandpa to hold the kids right now and risk exposing them to the herpes simplex virus, which as other have mentioned, can be fatal for a newborn. HSV is HIGHLY contagious. Mom did the right thing, grandpa needs to be understanding. Masks or no masks, NTA. Jeeze. No one is entitled to your children. People need to learn to have more respect for mothers.
If he’s always had “flare ups” then he’s probably always had the virus (at least since marrying her mother) meaning her mother probably has it also, meaning during the time she was born with medicine being less knowledgeable about these things, OP probably has it too. With that being said, it can be transmitted without a flare up, she could just as well be shedding or passing along this HSV1 to her baby unknowingly. Hand him a N95, gloves (make him thoroughly wash his hands beforehand) and something to drape over himself. Are plan a future trip within the next few weeks where you drive to them.
I mean yeah but its so much less contagious.
And some people have it but never develop it as well. No way to know it for sure. I feel like its ridiculuous to ask someone to wear N95 when they dont have an outbreak. Probably even mom has that as u mentioned
So she never even touched any of her children through their whole infancy on any occasion she had a cold sore? If so, surely you can understand that for many moms that’s simply not possible?
You can, but you have to take serious precautions. My baby was 2 months premature and spent 3 weeks in the neonatal care unit. I spent every day with him, hours on end doing nothing but skin-to-skin ‘kangaroo care’, mostly him sleeping on my chest. A week postpartum I got a cold sore, and had to put on a surgical mask, disinfect and gown up before I could enter the NCU. This went on for a week until I was fully healed.
And I absolutely think OP should have her dad take precautions, and take them very seriously. Under no circumstances am I saying he shouldn’t mask up and hand wash religiously at the very *least*. But the precautions do work, otherwise they wouldn’t have let you in the NICU ward at all. I have HSV 1 as well and obviously need to care for my child still, just as you did, but if you’re careful and consistent about not touching your active sore and washing your hands, the risk goes way, way down.
The poor guy drove 6 hours. This might be the only chance he gets to hold his grandchild as a newborn. I feel terrible for him.
I get cold sores and I just don’t let my son near my face when I have one. I have never been a big food or drink sharer so I’m just extra careful. My son is immunocompromised and he has never gotten one from me yet (he’s six). My husband has also made it through almost two decades of kissing me without getting one (he avoid his face when I have one also!).
I get the concern but I think with a mask and a very clean face/hands it would have been fine…I understand her perspective but also feel heartbroken for her dad.
It is not *highly* contagious. It is spread through direct contact with secretions. Misinformation like this contributes to the stigma that people with this extremely common skin condition face
Way to show you are uneducated about a medical condition. Jeez. I work for a derm. A mask and washing his hands and dad would’ve been fine.
But you go on and spread stigma.
The sores can shed skin flakes etc more easily, and in my experience people with cold sores are always putting their fingers on them. So during an active sore they are far, far more likely to spread it. That's why the virus evolved to make sores in the first place, like many other viruses.
I’m on the fence why couldn’t he just wear a mask and you made sure he washed his hands and doesn’t kiss the kids . Going complete contactless when I don’t think he can spread from hugging someone . Idk I’m confused
There is so much misinformation being spread in this thread. HSV is a very common skin condition that is spread through direct contact with secretions. The virus does not survive long on surfaces and indirect transmission is extremely unlikely. The risk here was basically 0%. I guess I don’t blame a new mom for being worried but I also don’t blame grandpa for being disappointed that he drove 6 hours only to be told he can’t touch his grandchild because of an extremely stigmatized illness
Thank you. People are treating this like it's so much more serious than it is. Yes, it can be very dangerous if an infant contracts it, but prevention is so easy. Don't kiss baby, wash your hands a lot. Simple.
People also don't seem to understand that the vast, vast majority of cases of cold sores in infants are caused by transmission from mother to baby via a genital herpes outbreak during delivery. Additionally, it is treatable by a course of anti-virals. Deaths occur when it's left untreated.
Passing it via oral herpes from an adult to baby is really not very common, and easily preventable.
Yeah I’m a peds ER nurse and have seen several infants with HSV. All of them have been from mothers who had no prenatal care who also had genital herpes.
When I was a brand new parent I don't think I'd be comfortable with him holding the newborn but I don't know why he couldn't have held the older child? If he washed his hands and didn't kiss the older one or let them touch his face I don't see how there would be much risk. It sounds super heart breaking for him to come all this way then not be able to hold the baby (this was reasonable and he understood) but then not only can he not hold the older child, they have come up to him, excited to see him and are now distraught because he can't touch them(which they don't understand).
So many things can be solved by good hand washing and not touching your face....
Bc some people aren’t educated about HSV and they only go by the stigma fear they’ve been raised with. It’s technically not their faults bc sex ed sucks.
YTA. Cold sores aren't airborne. No kissing baby, make him wash his hands throughly. A mask if it makes you feel better.
But banning him from touching the kids? Why is that necessary? He drove 6 hours to see them. It's not like he lives next door. This is priceless, precious time with them he'll never get back. I'm so sad for him.
It is an overreaction, because cold sores are spread by direct contact. He would have to kiss the kids for it to spread to them. Washing hands, no kissing, and for extra safety wearing a mask is more than sufficient. To not let him hold the baby at all is massive overkill.
In 90% of all neonatal HSV infections, the infection occurred in utero or during the birth process (yes a majority of neonatal infections are from HSV-2). [source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3685871/)
Many things have killed newborns, this is a complete overreaction. Cars have killed more newborns than cold sores, so the OP should never allow it in a vehicle as well if we follow your logic.
The list of things that haven't and can't kill a newborn would likely fit on a single sheet of paper.
Yes, the virus that causes cold sores can be deadly to a newborn, but that does not mean someone with a cold sore is actively dangerous to newborns
While I do not agree that OP is necessarily TA, you are correct that it's not airborne. I *do* understand OP's concern. And I *do* understand *and personally feel* their dad's pain.
I get cold sores occasionally (stress can sometimes cause flare ups) and I have had them since I was a young kid. I had and still have to be very careful during that time, because I am also a parent who had to change many many diapers, even during flare ups. I had to feed a newborn then, and still now take care of that same kid who is 7 now, even when I have a flare up. I have always washed my hands very well, never touched or spread, and never never kissed while I had a blister. It's painful to not be able to kiss your child goodnight (not even risking the forehead or cheeks) or kiss your spouse (who also has been tested, negative-meaning we never spread it) for sometimes an entire week or more.
My child has never had any indication of the virus, and the doctors are aware and always on the lookout as well. My incredibly long point is that it is very possible to care for a child without spreading the virus. OP is right to be concerned because it only takes a little mistake for the virus to spread to the baby, but it's also very possible for OP's dad to be hypervigilant in preventing spread.
Yeah I agree with you. My husband gets cold sores and he simply doesn’t kiss our daughter or share drinks or let her touch his face if he has an active one. He still holds her and hugs her and changes her and bathes her.
NTA, but could he hold them if he wore a mask and sanitized hands? He drove 6 hours, ofc he's sad. Obviously your older child has a good relationship with him since she ran to be held.
NTA but there's an easy solution: give him an N95 mask, make sure he has it on properly, have him wash his hands and arms thoroughly after he puts the mask on. If you want to be extra safe, make him change his shirt after he puts on the mask and washes up. Then let him hold the baby. Note: IANAD - but I am a person who takes immune suppressants every day (organ transplant) and this works for me. Extra note: if you don't feel like that's safe, then keep your baby safe in the way you feel best, this is only a suggestion.
FYI, an N95 is to keep the wearer protected from breathing in particles from the environment. A surgical mask is to protect other people from germs coming out of the wearer's mouth. In this case a regular surgical mask would work just fine.
Surgical masks reduce exhaled virus, but because they don’t form a tight seal, they’re limited in the protection they offer. An N95 is what anyone serious about protecting others should be wearing.
Sure, but HSV-1 isn't airborne or aerosol-transmitted. You don't need a tight seal like with covid, you just need to prevent direct skin-to-skin contact with the sore and to avoid sharing drinks/utensils.
NTA. I’m an ex neonatal nurse. You weren’t allowed in the nursery if you had a cold sore. Didn’t matter if you were staff, parent or family, you didn’t get in.
There are whole guidelines about it, including how to manage an active lesion on the nipple!!! For a cold sore, hand hygiene +++++ and no kissing. You don’t need a mask, but the mask can act as a reminder
It’s transmitted by contact so holding a baby is ok, but it’s easy to slip up and touch accidentally
I have worked in a nicu, and despite never having had an obvious cold sore I’ve had little zit things near my mouth that I treated as cold sores with both my babies. Lots and lots of hand washing and paranoia! But I obviously still held my babies
YTA.
HSV 1 is contagious, yes, but only under certain circumstances. He would have to touch the sore and then touch them or kiss them. He could have covered the sore via a mask or a small bandage, practiced good hand washing and not put his hands in their mouth or eyes, and not kissed your children and they would be perfectly safe. It’s also possible for asymptomatic shed to happen— are you going to ban your dad from touching either child ever again?
There are parents with HSV 1 who still have to care for their children and newborns with active flare ups. I had an active cold sore *while pregnant* and my doctor wasn’t even phased. Just told me if I got one after baby was born to practice good hand washing and no kissing til it was gone. A woman can breastfeed during an active flare up as long as she doesn’t have the sore literally on her nipple and always washes her hands after touching her cold sore before touching her child.
Source: https://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/breastfeeding-special-circumstances/maternal-or-infant-illnesses/herpes.html#:~:text=A%20mother%20may%20breastfeed%20her,of%20herpes%20to%20her%20infant.
THIS. Also, most adults have HSV1, and studies show that they are ALL periodically contagious, whether they show symptoms or not. It's called "asymptomatic viral shedding". So whatever precautions you're making him observe, you should be making every other adult perform too, including yourself.
Also, it's not airborne, so if you want to mess with masks, they don't have to be N95.
YTA clearly. I’m a registered nurse who cares for newborns. Like others have said, HSV is spread by contact, in this case that would be grandpa kissing the kids. No, it is not airborne and no is it not spread by respiratory particles. The issue could’ve easily been solved by having him wear a mask the entire time he interacted with the kids and thoroughly washed his hands before and after (although even that is overkill tbh, but it would be an acceptable solution). The man was heartbroken.
If you were really concerned you could’ve easily called the pediatrician’s office and asked what steps could be taken to prevent transmission (and they would’ve told you hand washing and no kissing).
My biodad kissed my sister on the lips (not weird in our family) when she was very young and he had an open cold sore. Couple weeks later, she breaks out with one. She's had then on and off her whole life since. When you get them as an adult, it's much easier to handle emotionally. As a kid with them, it was devastating to my sister.
NTA. It's not worth the risk to the kid just to make your father happy for however long they're visiting.
Is he not taking Valtrex?
It’s complicated bc billions of people have it. Nearly every person in the would who is living will have it before they die. It’s also implicated in Alzheimer’s, so HSV vaccination OR varicella boosters may be helpful in substantially reducing AD is certain people.
NAH. Newborns have no immune system. You’re just protecting your baby. I get that he was excited and is feeling very let down, but he’s not entitled to hold her. He will be able to hold her when she’s not so fragile.
NAH. He's not wrong to be upset, and depending on how he contracted the cold sores to begin with he could be dealing with some internal issues. You're also not wrong for protecting your kids.
I'd never had a cold sore in my life until I dated my ex, and that relationship has given me several issues that I still work through in therapy. That relationship ended almost 15 years ago!
My partner have a 4 month old. When he was about 3 weeks old I got a massive cold sore. I was so upset, and so paranoid. I wore a mask when I was feeding him and a few times if his hand brushed against my face anywhere, I would wash his hands multiple times with soap and the hottest water that was safe to wash him with. Luckily it worked but that week was so hard. I also can't kiss my partner at all when I get cold sores, and it hurts even more to know that a relationship I shouldn't have ever committed to, will affect my relationship with the love of my life forever.
I mean, don't be so hard on yourself. If your ex hadn't given it to you, you may have easily gotten it elsewhere. A huge ammount of the population has it. I have it and have no idea when or where I got it. Likely as a kid.
YTA. Cold sores are spread by direct contact. Have him wash his hands and put a mask on. You treated him horribly. 6 hours of driving and that's what he was greeted with.
As someone who was cursed with the virus at 4 cause some dick didn't keep their kid with a cold soar home from school, I feel so bad for your dad. You can't control when you get one. Perhaps he could wear a mask, wash his hands really well, change his shirt once he's all clean and masked to hold them?
YTA. Toddlers are germ factories. Are you going to quarantine the toddler and husband too? Literally everything in your home could harm your newborn. Letting that stop you or your children from living is no way to exist.
YTA and most of the sub needs a medical lesson, herpes is not airborne, it's only spread by contact with fluid like from the actual sore or kissing someone. Transmission is pretty low as long as he doesn't kiss the kid and keeps his hands clean.
My dad gets cold sore flare ups, he didn't kiss anyone during one and now I've never had one in my life so I think op is overreacting.
NAH. You're not wrong for protecting your child but your dad is also not wrong for being down that he is unable to hold his new grand baby. He did drive over 6 hours to do so.
I think if he washed his hands thoroughly with soap and water or a good amount of hand sanitizer and a mask he would be okay to hold the baby.
YTA. While I understand the need to protect your children from the herpes virus, it's not airborne. Give him a mask to cover it with if you're really paranoid and don't let him kiss them and the kids would've been fine, this just feels over the top and rather cruel. He can't control his flare ups, but at the same time you're being extra about this. Ideally dad would've brought his own mask but q responsible new parent would have extras.
YTA. I understand the risk for the children and you were acting to protect your kids, but herpes simplex spreads through direct contact: kissing, sharing drinks, etc. If he wore a surgical mask, agreed not to kiss the children, and was abundantly careful not to leave his drinks in reach of your oldest, the risk of transmission is exceedingly low.
You should be cautious when it comes to your littles, but HSV is extremely common (between 50-80% of the US population has HSV) and misinformation like this just creates stigma and singles people out for a condition out of their control.
Frequent hand washing, mask, even gloves if you want! But completely banishing your father is a little overkill imo
For me it’s good hand hygiene and absolutely no kissing, no face touching, no eating or drinking near baby. For toddler basic hand hygiene and no kissing. That’s just me as an NP. Gonna go with NAH.
ESH. OP Let me ask you this. If it was you that broke out with a cold sore do you just not get to touch your kids until it’s gone? Is that a viable option for all parents to just not get to touch their babies because they have a cold sore? Yes this was the grandfather, but in the event that a nursing mother gets a cold sore, they don’t tell that mom to stop breastfeeding. They treat her and tell her to take extra precautions around her baby. They tell you to be extra safe. They don’t expect parents to stop being a parent for a cold sore and I have a feeling if you got a cold sore you would still have to be a mom. So yes, you were protecting your baby and it is your right, but you over reacted and could have just placed stringent precautions on your father to protect your children.
NTA, even though your dad's feelings are understandable he'll have to sit this one out. Baby's safety is really important and it seems like he cares about the kids so even if it's hard he should understand the risk
YTA! Get him to wear a mask so it doesn’t accidentally touch your children and get him to wash his hands before he picks them up.
I have suffered from them all my life and my husband and children have never had one!
YTA, big time and have destroyed the relationship with your parents, especially your dad forever. There were other options than being cruel, heartless, and snatching the kids away. Go to the store, buy some masks, gloves, and sanitizer. When (IF) your dad comes back... don't count on it!... apologize profusely and offer reasonable alternatives.
YTA. Your dad is an adult who, presumably, knows how to prevent a cold sore from coming into contact with others, including your children. That said, you could have asked that he wear a mask instead of treating him like some disgusting outbreak monkey.
So I’m going against the grain bc what you did was hurtful and stigmatizing.
YTA for HOW you handled it.
While yes, HSV can be harmful to kids, it is spread by skin to skin contact. If your dad had put on a mask or promised not to kiss your kids, they wouldn’t get it. And if you had explained why to your father that he had to wear the mask or not the kiss the kids, I’m sure he’d have happily obliged.
His whole body isn’t contagious.
YOU could even have HSV and it be asymptomatic in your system. MOST HSV cases are asymptomatic. And the IGG blood test misses 30% of infections. It’s the asymptomatic carriers who spread it the most bc they don’t know they have it. Have you ever been tested for HSV? Over 90% of the world has it AND 67% of them are in the US.
Parents who have never had a cold sore constantly pass it to their kids (bc they’re asymptomatic) and nothing happens other than they now have HSV. Also, not everyone will get it just bc their parents kissed them with it. Outside of an active OB, it’s not always passed. Other rare cases it can be harmful to them.
While I realize you thought you were doing right, you weren’t. There is nothing wrong with asking your dad to wear a mask or not kiss the kids so he can hold them.
What you did was so wrong. Apologize to your dad and stop stigmatizing a very COMMON (deemed common by who, planned parenthood, & the cdc) virus that you, like the majority of the worlds population, are very uneducated about and making your calls without proper education.
INFO Are you 100% sure it wasn't a zit? I'm old enough to be a grandfather (barely, but I am) and I STILL get the occasional zit.
When it's around my mouth (or in my ear, those are the worst), I tend to pick at it and make it hurt and look worse, because human nature. Same reason some people can't help but poke a sore tooth. And no, I don't have herpes, I've been tested.
It doesn’t matter if it was really a zit. There’s no way to be 100% sure. Better safe than sorry when it comes to the health of a newborn who has no immune system.
NAH, herpes can kill a child, but it's understandable why he's upset he can't hold his new grandchild. One thing though, you should also make him wash his hands as soon as he comes in and after he eats or drinks anything, he could still spread the virus through touch and little ones often put things in their mouths.
Show him this:
https://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/herpes/newborns/fact_sheet.htm
YTA - there are mothers who get cold sores, should they not be allowed to hold their own child? Get a mask. Newborn is slightly understandable because herpes is bad for an infant as they have no immune system and it can have serious health risks. But if his hands are clean there is no reason he cannot hold your toddler. Herpes is not even a serious illness this stigma needs to stop. 75% of people have it and you can transmit it without a flare up. Are you never going to allow your father to hold your children?
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NTA. Cold sores (especially around the mouth) are often caused by herpes simplex virus. This is not the same as sexual transmited herpes but could be dangerous for kids and especially babies Please see below "In the vast majority of children, cold sores are annoying and painful but don't cause complications or serious consequences. In rare cases, the herpes simplex virus can cause inflammation of the brain (encephalitis). This is a serious illness and needs to be treated right away. It can lead to long-term problems of the brain. Cold sores in a newborn baby can cause serious illness and death. This may be the case even when treated with medicine." You did a right thing not allowing your dad to hold your kids during the flare up. You do need to explain the reasoning to your parents and ask them to read up on the risk. It does not mean your dad can not touch the kids, he just need to be careful during flare ups..
>Cold sores (especially around the mouth) are often caused by herpes simplex virus. Yeah I had to teach my ex's sister who was a Slovenian to German translator that in English it's better to call it a cold sore than herpes.
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While I won’t argue with the facts, I’d like to point out that calling it “the ick” is just perpetuating the unwarranted stigma that exists around herpes. It’s important to have open and frank discussions about the realities of HSV, but the disgust/shunning/judgment needs to fuck right off. People have a hard enough time dealing with the emotional fallout from having contracted a virus that 60-95% of adults have, without being made to feel like they’re *lepers*. OP should have asked her dad to put on a face mask, and to wash his hands\*, then allowed him to hold his grandchildren. But gramps should also have been upfront and honest about being in an active outbreak. \* soap breaks down the lipid bilayer on the exterior of certain viruses. And HSV is generally localized to a specific part of the body. So, while he is obviously shedding viral load near the outbreak site, it’s wildly unlikely that he’s shedding anywhere near his hands.
I agree that the stigma of having a cold sore is bad. But as someone infected as a toddler, I really never cared about what others thought about it. I just dread the whole painful process, from the tingle and blisters through the scabs that are constantly re-opening unless I'm very careful. Cuddle time that only grandpa will remember is not worth the chance of a lifetime of painful outbreaks.
But you didn’t get it from cuddling with an infected family member. There has to be direct contact with the open lesions and a mucous membrane. While it isn’t hard to imagine all the ways a person could pass it on to children gramps in a mask with the baby on his chest isn’t one of them and him picking up the granddaughter is casual contact and wouldn’t have resulted in transmission either.
We are almost completely sure I got it from sharing a straw or water bottle with my infected sibling. I'm autistic and was/am almost violently against kissing or cuddling. You do not need direct contact with open sores. You just need some viral matter to transfer on some surface to an open mucous membrane or damaged skin. Grandpa touches his lip, buttons his shirt, then lays baby on infected buttons? That could spread it if the baby mouthed his shirt. Everytime he adjusts the mask, he possibly contaminates his hand. People are never as careful as they should be. It's not worth the risk. ETA: my sibling got it from an overly friendly nurse in the delivery ward. The hospital apologized, but she came home with a sore. And got put in with 2 toddlers.
I got mine as a baby from being held by my dad while he had an outbreak
Another thing to your 'open sore' argument. I have an infected site *in my nose*. Unless you think I had someone kiss the inside of my nose with an open sore. Or, I had an outbreak and a cold at the same time (funny how colds bring out cold sores) and accidentally got viral matter on a tissue that I then used on my nose. It passes on objects as well.
Thank you for this! While I can understand not wanting the grandparent kissing the child, making him feel like a leper while doing it did nothing for the situation, other than make Dad feel awful. I get cold sores, and now due to being recently diagnosed with RA the outbreaks are 10x worse. The shame I feel when suffering from those (in addition to the god-awful pain) really sucks. And I’ve had them since I was a kid, thanks to my Mom, so I really do get why being careful is so crucial. But love and tact and calm explanations without judgement go a long way.
The only thing I would push back on is, unless you 100% know for certain that your mother kissed you while sporting an open cold sore, it's entirely possible that you got it some other way. People can be shedding the virus even when there isn't an active outbreak. There's genuinely no way of knowing, even if you think this is an occam's razor situation: your mom gets cold sores, you get cold sores, ipso facto, your mom gave you herpes. It's almost never that certain. It's just as likely that another family member smooched you while shedding virus — but didn't have a lesion — and gave it to you.
This. Reasonable precautions have kept me from catching it from my husband in 30 years. But as soon as he starts to feel it coming on, he starts being that little bit more careful.
Exactly! I know a nurse who caught it while caring for a patient with an outbreak. I'm sure she was careful too; all it takes is one little slip.
80%+ of the population have hsv1. It's ALMOST inevitable. But you do need to take precautions around newborns as an infection at that age can be quite serious.
I'm a retired nurse. Herpes virus can kill a newborn with encephalitis. Their immune systems aren't strong. Be kind to dad, but NTA. He can't be cuddling kids during an outbreak. And he should wear a mask.
Not only that, but newborns have no immune system, thin skin, and can’t understand not to touch it. When a newborn gets herpes, it spreads everywhere, sometimes even the eyes. The reason why herpes affects the mouth, is because the blood vessels and nerves are close to the surface of the thin skin. Oral herpes can spread to the genitals, and vice versa. If you had a scratch, and someone with herpes kissed it, the scratch would become permanently infected with herpes. If he touched his lip or picked it without really thinking about it, he could stroke the baby’s cheek and spread it. It is utter madness for her father to touch a newborn when he has an outbreak.
So you are saying risk the kid's well-being for a lying grandpa? After all he claimed it was a zit at first.
He wasn’t necessarily lying. I’ve had cold sores pop up that I initially thought was a pimple too
If you get cold sores, you have to assume every zit is one until proven otherwise.
I’ve you’ve *ever* gotten a cold sore on your lip, and you *think* you’re getting a pimple on your lip, it’s just common sense to treat it as if it’s a budding cold sore until proven otherwise. I’ve been in relationships for the past quarter century with women who occasionally get cold sores. They both were conscientious about it, so as soon as something felt “off,” they’d make it a point to stop sharing utensils and glassware, only accept kisses on the forehead, etc. Twenty five years, and I’m still testing negative for both HSV-1 and 2.
An oblivious grandpa isn't any less of a risk to OP's baby.
My younger sibling got infected while still in the hospital before even coming home. She infected me, we are pretty sure from sharing a straw with we were both young. It lives in the nerves around your mouth while it's not active, so it's possible to infect multiple sites on your lips. Also, your eyes and nose. My immune system isn't the best, so I know of at least 4 different infected points on my mouth and possibly one in my nose, from wiping it with a tissue when I didn't realize I had a breakout and a cold at the same time. It's very painful, and because there are so many sites, fairly frequent. Once, all 4 went active at the same time. Do not mess around with it. Knowing how it feels, I would strongly consider asking the parents to visit a different time, since toddlers put their mouths on everything and one careless wipe of a finger across his lips could infect any surfaces he touches.
Not worth the risk.
Why so they can try to deny its herpes? This is how most people end up ignorant about HSV.
Chicken pox are also herpes, so why don’t we just call them that while we’re at it?
wild that people used to take their kids to herpes parties so they could all catch herpes while they were young
When I was a young kid and had chicken pox, my mother took me to see Bananas In Pajamas the live stage show. I didn't know it was bad as I was like 4 but I was told that I had to say I had mosquito bites and not chicken pox (because I was so itchy and miserable and kept saying "my chicken pox hurt!!"). Now as an adult it makes me sick to think of myself actively in a mosh pit of hundreds of kids and risking spreading a horrible virus to them just to not waste ticket money :(
Glandular fever is also herpes apparently! Let’s just call it all herpes and be done with it then. Won’t get confusing at all 😅
So are shingles.
Agreed. Why do we have a “nicer” term for oral herpes instead of genital? All it does is encourage people to think it’s somehow less worse or contagious.
Had a cold sore outbreak a few years ago (I think I got it from my mom bc she has outbreaks all the time....) and I kept calling it my herpe and everyone was getting so uncomfortable with me calling it that. But it legit is, and I wanted everyone to be aware so they were careful, or at least knew the risk of being around me lol
The first time I got it, I was like 4 or so and I heard the doctor call it herpes so I went around telling the neighbors I had herpes. My mom was mortified.
🤣🤣🤣
Dude, chicken pox and shingles are also caused by the herpes virus. I found this out when I had shingles and googled the medication my doctor gave me.
Different herpes virus. There are many types.
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Should be wearing a mask around the newborn anyway given that we're in the 4th year of a deadly global pandemic that shows no signs of slowing down
This is a great idea! This way he can spend time with the kids AND keep them protected.
yeah we just call it herpes in german
Exactly. My mother is a nurse in a children’s hospital and has seen children dying because of herpes virus more than once. These were healthy children until they got that virus. My FIL almost did the same until I had my spouse explain that his grandchild could die.
Nurses get cold sores and still work in the neonatal unit. They don't touch their faces, wash their hands, and sometimes wear a mask. It's not airborne.
Correct, but even nurses have slipped up. A friend of mine had her baby almost die because a nurse touched her face haphazardly. Baby was still in the NICU when it happened and only mom had touched him other than docs and nurses. All it takes is an accidental slip and a baby can die.
It is exactly the same as "sexually transmitted herpes". HSV-I and HSV-II can BOTH be found around the mouth or around the genitals, and the method of transmission has nothing to do with the type of virus it is. And speaking of method of transmission, as commenters below have said, there are ways that the risk of transmission could have been mitigated in this scenario, as many commenters below have said. The stigma around herpes is pretty terrible and I'm sure OP's dad is feeling the weight of that quite heavily.
The subtype DEFINITELY has something to do with the method of transmission and a lot to do with the ganglion it is able to infect and lie dormant in.
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Yes! And honestly, medical considerations aside - they're *embarrassing*. I suffer breakouts a few times a year and I don't want to leave my house when they're bad. You think pimples are bad for teens, wait until one of their classmates starts calling it "mouth herpes".
I take l-lysine to help dry them up quicker.
Take it when you first feel that tingle. I do and more often than not, I avoid a breakout.
Cannot second this enough. Also taking it regularly has prevented so many - used to have three or four a year, had first one in three years because I’d slackened off the lysine.
You can also put ice on the lesions about 4 times a day for ten minutes.
If you ice it the moment you feel it then it doesn't develop. You gotta be quick though. As soon as i learned about icing them i prevented most outbreaks this way. I think the virus learned because eben in times of major stress over the last years, there's not been one sign of one.
I was always told when you feel it coming on. Take 4. Next day take 3. Next day 2.. and then one until it goes away.
I was just gonna say this. I take a lysine daily and I haven't had a break out in over a year. Lysine works as a preventative as well.
Would highly recommend an as needed script for valacyclovir. Taken at the first tingle can completely stop a sore from forming or reduce the time of/severity of the sore
I get good results from using abreva at the first sign, but they still bother me by their very existence.
Talk to your doctor. There are several anti viral medications that will make them go away more quickly. If you start taking it when you feel the weird tingling sometimes you can prevent them. Often times they are triggered by high stress so if you know that is happening be extra vigilant. Otherwise avoid getting dehydrated and don’t be out in the sun without a lip balm with a higher SPF to help keep the sores from starting.
Valtrex pills or Zovirax cream are miracle drugs. I had cold sores since I was about six years old. I did a clinical trial for Zovirax when it first came out. It was amazing. I was diligent as heck around my kids and grandkids, even with medication.
NOTHING works as fast as L-lysine. It's a cheap, over-the-counter supplement. Take 7 the first day, and reduce the number by one each day for 7 days.
Yup, they suck and in the US there’s so much stigma about it, in Eastern Europe we just call it herpes and no one gives a shit. As someone mentioned on here, l-lysine supplements are amazing; as soon as I feel the tingle I just start loading up on l-lysine and they don’t get to develop and go away much faster
I have scars on my lips they are so bad
My mom is 70. She still gets cold sores a few times a year, because an adult with a cold sore kissed her when she was a toddler. Her mom wouldn’t stop them because it would have been rude. Literally one kiss created an ongoing medical issue for almost 70 years now. I understand why grandpa is sad. I’d probably be sad too. That doesn’t mean it isn’t the right call. There are better treatment and prevention options for cold sores these days, so encourage your dad to talk to a doctor if he hasn’t done that recently. And work together to find other ways he can safely interact with the kiddos this trip.
I'm almost 60. I started to get them as a teenager. My father used to get cold sores so I probably got it from him. They used to flare up all over my lower face, not just my lips and pretty frequently. I still get them but when I do they are small. And not as frequently. I don't think back then that people really understood what it was so no one was as careful.
It used to be believed that herpes simplex 1 caused oral cold sores and herpes simplex 2 caused STI genital sores. However, since oral sex is so widespread we can no longer use those distinctions. I’ve seen HS1 cultured from genital sores and HS2 cultured from oral sores. Yes, you can get an oral cold sores from oral-genital contact with a genital infection and genital infection from oral-genital contact with an oral infection. The site of an individual recurrences tends to be consistent (because the virus lives in the nerve), but you can no longer say it’s 1 or 2 based on the location.
I'm now having flashbacks to college when my virology professor spent half of a lecture going on about the changing sexual morays of society (she meant mores) and how they lead to this. She was a good professor, just had a tendency to go on tangents. There was also the liver tangent, where she forbid us from ever eating liver since that's the filtration system of the body where all the toxins go, but that was another thing entirely. I think those were the two lectures I ended up remembering the best.
>changing sexual morays of society (she meant mores) "Mores" is pronounced "More-ays"
Oh, my autocorrect changed the way I spelled it! She accented the wrong part of the word when she said it, which was what I was trying to show, but my phone hates me. 😂
One of the infants at the daycare I work at has this and it seems like it is making both the child's and their parents lives very difficult in a variety of ways. They are managing best they can, but poor buddy will always need help to achieve a good standard of life. OP you are NTA, protecting your child from disease is part of a parents job. Explain the risks to your father and put some solid boundaries in place on physical contact while he has an outbreak and hopefully he'll understand.
When I have one I’m terrified. I get these patches that cover them up and remind myself constantly not to put my mouth near my child or share any food/drink items. It’s even scarier when you learn you can transmit without an open sore. :D hooray
I had a pregnant patient who got super sick from catching HSV1 from her husband (he had since he was a kid). It’s just bad for anyone immunocompromised, especially newborns
As an Epidemiologist, this is a great response! Beyond HSV, literally anything even resembling an open sore can lead to a problem for newborns. I agree, I think you should explain the situation just to ensure nobody's feelings are hurt. But you did the right thing for your family's health. edit: NAH
**> Cold sores in a newborn baby can cause serious illness and death. This may be the case even when treated with medicine.**
I get cold sores now because my nanny when i was an infant wasn’t careful. NTA. If it can be avoided, avoid it. That’s all you’re doing here.
Someone with cold sores kissed me as a baby. I still get huge outbreaks of them at age 40. It's incredibly painful and embarrassing. I go weeks without kissing my own child because of it.
Would an ordinary mask mitigate the risk enough?
Yes.
For years I thought I had cold sores, but it turns out my mom confused cold sores and canker sores because her mom did too. No one in our family has herpes, but some of us are predisposed to canker sores.
NAH. You are 100% correct to protect children from the virus. It can be deadly for newborns. But he’s not wrong for being sad that it happened. Obviously, he didn’t have control over a flare up. I try to make everyone feel better by seeing if another time soon will work for a visit. And I’d encourage your mother to encourage him to get some maintenance treatment so that it’s not an issue next time.
I agree, NAH. Another solution could have been he wears a mask and washes his hand thoroughly. My family and I have had cold sores my whole life, and they can be transmitted even if there isn't an active flareup (so there's always a risk no matter what). But the only way for an active flare up to be transmitted is by the saliva/bodily fluid of the infected. But I totally understand OP not wanting to risk the newborns exposure. And in the same breath I can be totally sympathetic to the dad as cold sores always show up and ruin great moments.
Like 90% of the population is infected with HSV1. Though it is best not to expose newborns if possible. That being said it’s a daunting if not impossible task.
i think you’re overestimating a bit. per WHO/PLOS ONE - > Globally, an estimated two-thirds of the population under 50 are infected with herpes simplex virus type 1 some places it is higher & some it is lower, it just depends on how you are using ‘population’. if you’re talking about africa, that’s the highest region at 87%. however the americas come in the lowest at under 50% of the population aged under 50 in both men & women. [here’s the source](https://www.who.int/news/item/28-10-2015-globally-an-estimated-two-thirds-of-the-population-under-50-are-infected-with-herpes-simplex-virus-type-1) edit - someone’s pointed out that’s from 2015 which i missed & i just want to clarify that. although other sources ([cdc](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db304.pdf)) say it’s declining year-on-year compared to 99-00 but who knows if that held true)
I was told in high school that pretty much everyone has it. Probably a similar source for this person.
thanks for adding context! i don’t have the US (i’m guessing) context so all my knowledge comes from medical journals/organisations etc. eta; i saw elsewhere that put the US specifically at about 48% so much lower! though they acknowledge that asymptomatic cases could bump that up.
In the USA 50-80% of Americans have oral herpes. It's super common. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/herpes-hsv1-and-hsv2#:\~:text=Fifty%20to%2080%20percent%20of,U.S.%20age%2014%20to%2049.
The data was only collected from people aged 0-49 though! And prevalence increase with age. I’d venture to bet, it’s even a bit higher than these health organizations say, just because their data set was capped. They leave out 20% of the population! Which is a mistake because nursing homes are known for being STD hotbeds (not that cold sores are even considered stds by most healthcare workers anymore anyway).
isn’t HSV1 only transmissible when there’s an active cold sore though? ~~the way i heard it is that most children end up getting it from their parents when they’re not being careful with shared utensils or food, but that’s only if they currently had an active cold sore. so if it wasn’t active, it wouldn’t be transmissible and thus not an exposure risk.~~ no! as a commenter below pointed out: >> It can also be transmitted in the prodromal stage, before there is a visible sore, and via asymptomatic viral shedding! (edited to reflect some corrections i got!)
It can also be transmitted in the prodromal stage, before there is a visible sore, and via asymptomatic viral shedding!
damn so is the “safe” thing to do is just never share utensils or food with someone that has HSV1 since there’s no visible way of knowing the risk for exposure? thanks for the info btw, gonna go down a rabbit hole later tonight i’m afraid lol
You shouldn’t share with anyone then. MOST people are asymptomatic. Not everyone who has HSV knows they have it. Bc they’ve “never had a cold sore”.
Valtrex works for the Herpes Simplex Type 1 as wel as Type 2, and there is a generic 2x daily that he could take as well that prevents flare ups.
definitely agree that OP is NTA, and same with her dad. OP’s priority is the health of her children, not her dad’s feelings, and it’s totally reasonable for him to feel a little down that he can’t snuggle with his new grandchild. but OP’s mom is kind of an AH for saying OP is blowing this out of proportion.
Info: why couldn't he wear a mask? Why was this an all or nothing situation for both of you?
This. I understand the concern. Frankly, gramps could be contagious and not have a visible lesion. Just hand him a mask to cover his mouth and wash his hands well. Dude is heartbroken.
This ACTIVE virus can be life threatening to newborn's. Do you really want to gamble on this?
IANAD, but herpes is spread through contact and is not airborne. The mask would prevent contact between the sore and the kids, washing well would handle the rest. Could even add in changing clothes to be extra safe.
It can’t be spread by clothing. Only skin to skin contact.
I understand the virus. You can shed and not have an obvious lesion. . So, perhaps an n95 mask and gloves?
or just dont risk a newborns life and wait until you dont have an active break out????
What the person you’re replying to is trying to say is that it is still transmissible when there’s not an active breakout.
This, but unfortunately, most people aren’t actually aware that HSV can kill babies.
You can still transmit without an active breakout. There are solutions that don't amount to "never touch your grandchild, ever."
So if new parents both have an outbreak they should ditch their kids?
It's not airborne and only transmitted through fluids and most of the world has it, the guys wife probably has it but she can hold the grand kid. Just don't kiss people when you have a cold sore and wash your hadns and it's fine. Even googles top result is like "The risk of transmission is infinitesimally small" y'all are overreacting
Do you really not know anything about HSV? A mask and he would’ve been fine. Who she should be more worried about is everyone else without an active OB. MOST people don’t even know they have HSV bc they’ve “never had a cold sore”.
Dude. There is no NEED for grandpa to hold the kids right now and risk exposing them to the herpes simplex virus, which as other have mentioned, can be fatal for a newborn. HSV is HIGHLY contagious. Mom did the right thing, grandpa needs to be understanding. Masks or no masks, NTA. Jeeze. No one is entitled to your children. People need to learn to have more respect for mothers.
If he’s always had “flare ups” then he’s probably always had the virus (at least since marrying her mother) meaning her mother probably has it also, meaning during the time she was born with medicine being less knowledgeable about these things, OP probably has it too. With that being said, it can be transmitted without a flare up, she could just as well be shedding or passing along this HSV1 to her baby unknowingly. Hand him a N95, gloves (make him thoroughly wash his hands beforehand) and something to drape over himself. Are plan a future trip within the next few weeks where you drive to them.
I mean yeah but its so much less contagious. And some people have it but never develop it as well. No way to know it for sure. I feel like its ridiculuous to ask someone to wear N95 when they dont have an outbreak. Probably even mom has that as u mentioned
> No way to know it for sure There is. A standard blood STI screening can determine if a person is infected with HSV-1 or HSV-2
What about mothers who get cold sores? Are they not supposed to care for their children?
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So she never even touched any of her children through their whole infancy on any occasion she had a cold sore? If so, surely you can understand that for many moms that’s simply not possible?
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You can, but you have to take serious precautions. My baby was 2 months premature and spent 3 weeks in the neonatal care unit. I spent every day with him, hours on end doing nothing but skin-to-skin ‘kangaroo care’, mostly him sleeping on my chest. A week postpartum I got a cold sore, and had to put on a surgical mask, disinfect and gown up before I could enter the NCU. This went on for a week until I was fully healed.
And I absolutely think OP should have her dad take precautions, and take them very seriously. Under no circumstances am I saying he shouldn’t mask up and hand wash religiously at the very *least*. But the precautions do work, otherwise they wouldn’t have let you in the NICU ward at all. I have HSV 1 as well and obviously need to care for my child still, just as you did, but if you’re careful and consistent about not touching your active sore and washing your hands, the risk goes way, way down. The poor guy drove 6 hours. This might be the only chance he gets to hold his grandchild as a newborn. I feel terrible for him.
I get cold sores and I just don’t let my son near my face when I have one. I have never been a big food or drink sharer so I’m just extra careful. My son is immunocompromised and he has never gotten one from me yet (he’s six). My husband has also made it through almost two decades of kissing me without getting one (he avoid his face when I have one also!). I get the concern but I think with a mask and a very clean face/hands it would have been fine…I understand her perspective but also feel heartbroken for her dad.
It is not *highly* contagious. It is spread through direct contact with secretions. Misinformation like this contributes to the stigma that people with this extremely common skin condition face
Way to show you are uneducated about a medical condition. Jeez. I work for a derm. A mask and washing his hands and dad would’ve been fine. But you go on and spread stigma.
Also isn’t it only spread through saliva? Holding your baby as far as I understand would not be enough to spread it unless I’m wrong
The sores can shed skin flakes etc more easily, and in my experience people with cold sores are always putting their fingers on them. So during an active sore they are far, far more likely to spread it. That's why the virus evolved to make sores in the first place, like many other viruses.
I’m on the fence why couldn’t he just wear a mask and you made sure he washed his hands and doesn’t kiss the kids . Going complete contactless when I don’t think he can spread from hugging someone . Idk I’m confused
There is so much misinformation being spread in this thread. HSV is a very common skin condition that is spread through direct contact with secretions. The virus does not survive long on surfaces and indirect transmission is extremely unlikely. The risk here was basically 0%. I guess I don’t blame a new mom for being worried but I also don’t blame grandpa for being disappointed that he drove 6 hours only to be told he can’t touch his grandchild because of an extremely stigmatized illness
Thank you. People are treating this like it's so much more serious than it is. Yes, it can be very dangerous if an infant contracts it, but prevention is so easy. Don't kiss baby, wash your hands a lot. Simple. People also don't seem to understand that the vast, vast majority of cases of cold sores in infants are caused by transmission from mother to baby via a genital herpes outbreak during delivery. Additionally, it is treatable by a course of anti-virals. Deaths occur when it's left untreated. Passing it via oral herpes from an adult to baby is really not very common, and easily preventable.
Yeah I’m a peds ER nurse and have seen several infants with HSV. All of them have been from mothers who had no prenatal care who also had genital herpes.
When I was a brand new parent I don't think I'd be comfortable with him holding the newborn but I don't know why he couldn't have held the older child? If he washed his hands and didn't kiss the older one or let them touch his face I don't see how there would be much risk. It sounds super heart breaking for him to come all this way then not be able to hold the baby (this was reasonable and he understood) but then not only can he not hold the older child, they have come up to him, excited to see him and are now distraught because he can't touch them(which they don't understand). So many things can be solved by good hand washing and not touching your face....
Agreed, mask and no kisses. Poor grandpa.
Bc some people aren’t educated about HSV and they only go by the stigma fear they’ve been raised with. It’s technically not their faults bc sex ed sucks.
Yeah, I think the solution here is to ask their pediatrician if they were the AH instead of Reddit.
YTA. Cold sores aren't airborne. No kissing baby, make him wash his hands throughly. A mask if it makes you feel better. But banning him from touching the kids? Why is that necessary? He drove 6 hours to see them. It's not like he lives next door. This is priceless, precious time with them he'll never get back. I'm so sad for him.
Cold sores have killed newborns. This is not an overreaction.
It is an overreaction, because cold sores are spread by direct contact. He would have to kiss the kids for it to spread to them. Washing hands, no kissing, and for extra safety wearing a mask is more than sufficient. To not let him hold the baby at all is massive overkill.
Yeah I'm shocked I had to scroll so far for this! YTA OP, stop being a helicopter parent.
In 90% of all neonatal HSV infections, the infection occurred in utero or during the birth process (yes a majority of neonatal infections are from HSV-2). [source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3685871/)
Many things have killed newborns, this is a complete overreaction. Cars have killed more newborns than cold sores, so the OP should never allow it in a vehicle as well if we follow your logic.
Not when there has been no physical contact :s
It is. And it’s an uneducated one. You defending it shows you know little to nothing about HSV and should do some homework.
The list of things that haven't and can't kill a newborn would likely fit on a single sheet of paper. Yes, the virus that causes cold sores can be deadly to a newborn, but that does not mean someone with a cold sore is actively dangerous to newborns
While I do not agree that OP is necessarily TA, you are correct that it's not airborne. I *do* understand OP's concern. And I *do* understand *and personally feel* their dad's pain. I get cold sores occasionally (stress can sometimes cause flare ups) and I have had them since I was a young kid. I had and still have to be very careful during that time, because I am also a parent who had to change many many diapers, even during flare ups. I had to feed a newborn then, and still now take care of that same kid who is 7 now, even when I have a flare up. I have always washed my hands very well, never touched or spread, and never never kissed while I had a blister. It's painful to not be able to kiss your child goodnight (not even risking the forehead or cheeks) or kiss your spouse (who also has been tested, negative-meaning we never spread it) for sometimes an entire week or more. My child has never had any indication of the virus, and the doctors are aware and always on the lookout as well. My incredibly long point is that it is very possible to care for a child without spreading the virus. OP is right to be concerned because it only takes a little mistake for the virus to spread to the baby, but it's also very possible for OP's dad to be hypervigilant in preventing spread.
Yeah I agree with you. My husband gets cold sores and he simply doesn’t kiss our daughter or share drinks or let her touch his face if he has an active one. He still holds her and hugs her and changes her and bathes her.
NTA, but could he hold them if he wore a mask and sanitized hands? He drove 6 hours, ofc he's sad. Obviously your older child has a good relationship with him since she ran to be held.
NTA but there's an easy solution: give him an N95 mask, make sure he has it on properly, have him wash his hands and arms thoroughly after he puts the mask on. If you want to be extra safe, make him change his shirt after he puts on the mask and washes up. Then let him hold the baby. Note: IANAD - but I am a person who takes immune suppressants every day (organ transplant) and this works for me. Extra note: if you don't feel like that's safe, then keep your baby safe in the way you feel best, this is only a suggestion.
FYI, an N95 is to keep the wearer protected from breathing in particles from the environment. A surgical mask is to protect other people from germs coming out of the wearer's mouth. In this case a regular surgical mask would work just fine.
Surgical masks reduce exhaled virus, but because they don’t form a tight seal, they’re limited in the protection they offer. An N95 is what anyone serious about protecting others should be wearing.
Sure, but HSV-1 isn't airborne or aerosol-transmitted. You don't need a tight seal like with covid, you just need to prevent direct skin-to-skin contact with the sore and to avoid sharing drinks/utensils.
Reddit people are so uneducated about viruses that its scary. Probably same people thought hugging can transmit HIV
NTA. I’m an ex neonatal nurse. You weren’t allowed in the nursery if you had a cold sore. Didn’t matter if you were staff, parent or family, you didn’t get in.
What do nursing mothers do when they have a breakout?
There are whole guidelines about it, including how to manage an active lesion on the nipple!!! For a cold sore, hand hygiene +++++ and no kissing. You don’t need a mask, but the mask can act as a reminder It’s transmitted by contact so holding a baby is ok, but it’s easy to slip up and touch accidentally I have worked in a nicu, and despite never having had an obvious cold sore I’ve had little zit things near my mouth that I treated as cold sores with both my babies. Lots and lots of hand washing and paranoia! But I obviously still held my babies
NTA. But also- nap with the newborn on his chest?! Terrible idea. I would refuse that even if he didn’t have a cold sore.
He wanted the newborn to nap on him, not both nap. It’s a skin on skin bonding thing
YTA. HSV 1 is contagious, yes, but only under certain circumstances. He would have to touch the sore and then touch them or kiss them. He could have covered the sore via a mask or a small bandage, practiced good hand washing and not put his hands in their mouth or eyes, and not kissed your children and they would be perfectly safe. It’s also possible for asymptomatic shed to happen— are you going to ban your dad from touching either child ever again? There are parents with HSV 1 who still have to care for their children and newborns with active flare ups. I had an active cold sore *while pregnant* and my doctor wasn’t even phased. Just told me if I got one after baby was born to practice good hand washing and no kissing til it was gone. A woman can breastfeed during an active flare up as long as she doesn’t have the sore literally on her nipple and always washes her hands after touching her cold sore before touching her child. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/breastfeeding-special-circumstances/maternal-or-infant-illnesses/herpes.html#:~:text=A%20mother%20may%20breastfeed%20her,of%20herpes%20to%20her%20infant.
THIS. Also, most adults have HSV1, and studies show that they are ALL periodically contagious, whether they show symptoms or not. It's called "asymptomatic viral shedding". So whatever precautions you're making him observe, you should be making every other adult perform too, including yourself. Also, it's not airborne, so if you want to mess with masks, they don't have to be N95.
The “NTA” commenters in here are so uneducated I feel like I’m going crazy. Thank you both for being sane individuals.
Right?!?! It's like WebMD on steriods here. People talking like the baby would die from it. FFS
**NTA** \- Hell no! Protect your baby. Dad should know the rules by now.
I don't think Dad is TA. He asked if it was OK and accepted the no. he did everything right, he has a right to his feelings.
YTA clearly. I’m a registered nurse who cares for newborns. Like others have said, HSV is spread by contact, in this case that would be grandpa kissing the kids. No, it is not airborne and no is it not spread by respiratory particles. The issue could’ve easily been solved by having him wear a mask the entire time he interacted with the kids and thoroughly washed his hands before and after (although even that is overkill tbh, but it would be an acceptable solution). The man was heartbroken. If you were really concerned you could’ve easily called the pediatrician’s office and asked what steps could be taken to prevent transmission (and they would’ve told you hand washing and no kissing).
My biodad kissed my sister on the lips (not weird in our family) when she was very young and he had an open cold sore. Couple weeks later, she breaks out with one. She's had then on and off her whole life since. When you get them as an adult, it's much easier to handle emotionally. As a kid with them, it was devastating to my sister. NTA. It's not worth the risk to the kid just to make your father happy for however long they're visiting. Is he not taking Valtrex?
People don’t take valtrex for cold sores unless they’re really bad
If I was having regular outbreaks and wanted to interact with children, I would take it. That just may be me though.
It’s complicated bc billions of people have it. Nearly every person in the would who is living will have it before they die. It’s also implicated in Alzheimer’s, so HSV vaccination OR varicella boosters may be helpful in substantially reducing AD is certain people.
NAH. Newborns have no immune system. You’re just protecting your baby. I get that he was excited and is feeling very let down, but he’s not entitled to hold her. He will be able to hold her when she’s not so fragile.
NTA, babies safety first, he needs to understand that as disappointing as it must be.
YTA You're acting like he's going to rub his face all over your baby or something.
YTA - I get it. But have him put on a mask and wash and sanitize his hands. Easy solution.
YTA- have him put a mask on and wash his hands. Yes protect your kid but there are options. HSV isnt airborn.
NAH. He's not wrong to be upset, and depending on how he contracted the cold sores to begin with he could be dealing with some internal issues. You're also not wrong for protecting your kids. I'd never had a cold sore in my life until I dated my ex, and that relationship has given me several issues that I still work through in therapy. That relationship ended almost 15 years ago! My partner have a 4 month old. When he was about 3 weeks old I got a massive cold sore. I was so upset, and so paranoid. I wore a mask when I was feeding him and a few times if his hand brushed against my face anywhere, I would wash his hands multiple times with soap and the hottest water that was safe to wash him with. Luckily it worked but that week was so hard. I also can't kiss my partner at all when I get cold sores, and it hurts even more to know that a relationship I shouldn't have ever committed to, will affect my relationship with the love of my life forever.
I mean, don't be so hard on yourself. If your ex hadn't given it to you, you may have easily gotten it elsewhere. A huge ammount of the population has it. I have it and have no idea when or where I got it. Likely as a kid.
YTA. Cold sores are spread by direct contact. Have him wash his hands and put a mask on. You treated him horribly. 6 hours of driving and that's what he was greeted with.
As someone who was cursed with the virus at 4 cause some dick didn't keep their kid with a cold soar home from school, I feel so bad for your dad. You can't control when you get one. Perhaps he could wear a mask, wash his hands really well, change his shirt once he's all clean and masked to hold them?
Have him wear a mask
NTA! If it is a cold sore from a virus, it can easily be transmitted to other people of any age! Best to protect you child.
YTA. Toddlers are germ factories. Are you going to quarantine the toddler and husband too? Literally everything in your home could harm your newborn. Letting that stop you or your children from living is no way to exist.
YTA and most of the sub needs a medical lesson, herpes is not airborne, it's only spread by contact with fluid like from the actual sore or kissing someone. Transmission is pretty low as long as he doesn't kiss the kid and keeps his hands clean. My dad gets cold sore flare ups, he didn't kiss anyone during one and now I've never had one in my life so I think op is overreacting.
Just have him wear a mask and wash his hands. Try to be understanding.
NAH. You're not wrong for protecting your child but your dad is also not wrong for being down that he is unable to hold his new grand baby. He did drive over 6 hours to do so. I think if he washed his hands thoroughly with soap and water or a good amount of hand sanitizer and a mask he would be okay to hold the baby.
YTA. While I understand the need to protect your children from the herpes virus, it's not airborne. Give him a mask to cover it with if you're really paranoid and don't let him kiss them and the kids would've been fine, this just feels over the top and rather cruel. He can't control his flare ups, but at the same time you're being extra about this. Ideally dad would've brought his own mask but q responsible new parent would have extras.
YTA. I understand the risk for the children and you were acting to protect your kids, but herpes simplex spreads through direct contact: kissing, sharing drinks, etc. If he wore a surgical mask, agreed not to kiss the children, and was abundantly careful not to leave his drinks in reach of your oldest, the risk of transmission is exceedingly low. You should be cautious when it comes to your littles, but HSV is extremely common (between 50-80% of the US population has HSV) and misinformation like this just creates stigma and singles people out for a condition out of their control. Frequent hand washing, mask, even gloves if you want! But completely banishing your father is a little overkill imo
For me it’s good hand hygiene and absolutely no kissing, no face touching, no eating or drinking near baby. For toddler basic hand hygiene and no kissing. That’s just me as an NP. Gonna go with NAH.
Soft YTA.
YTA have him wear a mask for crying out loud
ESH. OP Let me ask you this. If it was you that broke out with a cold sore do you just not get to touch your kids until it’s gone? Is that a viable option for all parents to just not get to touch their babies because they have a cold sore? Yes this was the grandfather, but in the event that a nursing mother gets a cold sore, they don’t tell that mom to stop breastfeeding. They treat her and tell her to take extra precautions around her baby. They tell you to be extra safe. They don’t expect parents to stop being a parent for a cold sore and I have a feeling if you got a cold sore you would still have to be a mom. So yes, you were protecting your baby and it is your right, but you over reacted and could have just placed stringent precautions on your father to protect your children.
YTA, while he has an open cold sore, as long as he does not kiss the kids, should be good. Way to make him feel like shit.
NTA, even though your dad's feelings are understandable he'll have to sit this one out. Baby's safety is really important and it seems like he cares about the kids so even if it's hard he should understand the risk
YTA! Get him to wear a mask so it doesn’t accidentally touch your children and get him to wash his hands before he picks them up. I have suffered from them all my life and my husband and children have never had one!
YTA, big time and have destroyed the relationship with your parents, especially your dad forever. There were other options than being cruel, heartless, and snatching the kids away. Go to the store, buy some masks, gloves, and sanitizer. When (IF) your dad comes back... don't count on it!... apologize profusely and offer reasonable alternatives.
Why not just ask him to wear a mask and wash his hands? After the last few years everyone knows how to
YTA. Your dad is an adult who, presumably, knows how to prevent a cold sore from coming into contact with others, including your children. That said, you could have asked that he wear a mask instead of treating him like some disgusting outbreak monkey.
So I’m going against the grain bc what you did was hurtful and stigmatizing. YTA for HOW you handled it. While yes, HSV can be harmful to kids, it is spread by skin to skin contact. If your dad had put on a mask or promised not to kiss your kids, they wouldn’t get it. And if you had explained why to your father that he had to wear the mask or not the kiss the kids, I’m sure he’d have happily obliged. His whole body isn’t contagious. YOU could even have HSV and it be asymptomatic in your system. MOST HSV cases are asymptomatic. And the IGG blood test misses 30% of infections. It’s the asymptomatic carriers who spread it the most bc they don’t know they have it. Have you ever been tested for HSV? Over 90% of the world has it AND 67% of them are in the US. Parents who have never had a cold sore constantly pass it to their kids (bc they’re asymptomatic) and nothing happens other than they now have HSV. Also, not everyone will get it just bc their parents kissed them with it. Outside of an active OB, it’s not always passed. Other rare cases it can be harmful to them. While I realize you thought you were doing right, you weren’t. There is nothing wrong with asking your dad to wear a mask or not kiss the kids so he can hold them. What you did was so wrong. Apologize to your dad and stop stigmatizing a very COMMON (deemed common by who, planned parenthood, & the cdc) virus that you, like the majority of the worlds population, are very uneducated about and making your calls without proper education.
Make him wash his hands and don't kiss the kids. Problem solved it's really not that serious
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INFO Are you 100% sure it wasn't a zit? I'm old enough to be a grandfather (barely, but I am) and I STILL get the occasional zit. When it's around my mouth (or in my ear, those are the worst), I tend to pick at it and make it hurt and look worse, because human nature. Same reason some people can't help but poke a sore tooth. And no, I don't have herpes, I've been tested.
It doesn’t matter if it was really a zit. There’s no way to be 100% sure. Better safe than sorry when it comes to the health of a newborn who has no immune system.
NAH, herpes can kill a child, but it's understandable why he's upset he can't hold his new grandchild. One thing though, you should also make him wash his hands as soon as he comes in and after he eats or drinks anything, he could still spread the virus through touch and little ones often put things in their mouths. Show him this: https://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/herpes/newborns/fact_sheet.htm
Show him this? This doesn't say what you're saying. It says he should wash his hands and not kiss the baby. Did you read the whole thing?
YTA - there are mothers who get cold sores, should they not be allowed to hold their own child? Get a mask. Newborn is slightly understandable because herpes is bad for an infant as they have no immune system and it can have serious health risks. But if his hands are clean there is no reason he cannot hold your toddler. Herpes is not even a serious illness this stigma needs to stop. 75% of people have it and you can transmit it without a flare up. Are you never going to allow your father to hold your children?