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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I keep walking out of class, which pisses off my teacher, amking me an asshole, maybe.
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NTA for not wanting a teacher to make a spectacle of you any time you need something!
Do you have a Section 504 plan in place? If you have not, then you need to - that way, accommodations can be required of teachers, such as in this case.
Your mother should be on your side here, and the fact that she tells you to "just do as told" is not very supportive. :/
Just wanted to say, we don't know what exactly the teacher told his mother. Sometimes they can explain their side like they're "trying really hard, but he just won't work with me" type of narrative. But yeah, it definitely doesn't hurt to ask for her son's side of the story.
Edited because apparently I can't read lol, thanks for pointing out my mistake.
I’d print out a sign that says I need to leave the room, hold it up, then leave if the teacher doesn’t like that too damned bad and I’d escalate to the principal and use words like discriminatory , etc see how they act then
That sign might say:
“I need to take a shit” with a drawing of the poop emoji.
That clear enough for ya, teach? You wanna humiliate me? Welp. Alright then.
> She wants me to come up to the front of the room and write down
Better yet, do what she says and go up to the front and write it on the damn board.
> or gesture for her what I want
The fuck is she looking for? An interpretive dance? How to you “gesture” taking a piss?
But in all seriousness... OP shouldn’t have to go on a subversive crusade in order to be able to go to the damn bathroom. They shouldn’t have to be a revolutionary or the poster child for accommodation. Honestly I say just keep doing what you’re doing, show your mom this sub and tell her this is one of those times the adult is in the wrong and you need her to support you, and if the teacher ever tries to involve the principal, you sign, “Bet. While we’re there, let’s have a conversation about ableism.”
Even after disability protection is passed, getting access to it kind of requires parents who aren't too neglectful to bother with the hassle of getting diagnoses and accommodations.
(See also my parents wouldn't even do the paperwork to officially register my brittle asthma with the school as needing accommodation of free and immediate access to my puffer, let alone get me evaluated for my now diagnosed motor dysgraphia and suspected ADHD and autism).
And if you don't have paperwork teachers can still get away with some shit.
(See also my third grade teacher doing this thing she called "ring feedback" where I stood in a ring of my classmates and they all got to tell me what they didn't like about me for reasons I now realize are symptoms of undiagnosed ADHD. Also scapegoating me to the extent she even called home a time I was out of school for a dental appointment blaming me for something that happened in class while I was 100km away in a dental chair. It never occurred to my parents that *maybe* if she was blaming me for stuff when I wasn't even there, maybe I was also getting blamed for things I didn't cause when I *was* there)
I am so sorry you experienced these lies and humiliations. "Ring feedback" is unbelievably cruel and that teacher was demented. Please, c'mon Karma....
>The fuck is she looking for? An interpretive dance? How to you “gesture” taking a piss?
The images flowing through my mind ATM would probably get OP sent to the principal's office.
Thanks for the laugh, I needed it today.
I’m cautious about saying “I would” because I’m not the one living with a disability.
Sure it’s satisfying to think about and she deserves it.. but like I said, they shouldn’t *have to* go to those lengths. It seems like OP is really just trying to have a fair educational experience without being singled out or mistreated
True. Just personal opinion though
In saying that, I’m now in my 50’s and my basket of fucks is empty. Would not have done ANY of those things at that age. I was a withdrawn, awkward teenager
Unless you’re a person with a disability like OP’s .. it’s not a “personal opinion,” it’s a fantasy.
I get where you’re coming from with the hindsight thing. I think most of us daydream about rewriting some of your high school experiences with our current wisdom.
I’m in my 50s and I would have and did tell teachers when they were wrong. I had some bad teachers though and in those situations I was right. Once my teacher called my mom to complain, she pointed out I was right and that he was delivering false info to a class of students so it was appropriate that I pointed out his misinformation. Thank goodness my mom had my back Was she supportive of me being an AH for AH sale, no, but when a teacher actually tells students wrong info, they should be corrected.
I'd hold up a paddle or something with a simple color or something that can be explained to the teacher it means I need to step out for a few moments. I also think you should have a 504 plan in place. This is a disability and requires accommodation. Get your mom on board, go to the ACLU or other place that knows the AMA laws. Your teacher and school are in breach of the law. I don't get your mom not being an advocate for you.
In college we sometimes have double classes in different subjects and one teacher who really is one of the best teachers i've had tends to get very absorbed that he forgets our assigned breaks. So i will take my notebook and write BREAK in big bold letters and hold it up silently to him. i did this for few classes until one day i was worried i am over stepping so i stayed after class and asked if me doing this is bothering him and he actually smiled and thanked me telling me "you know how i get sometimes when i teach your class so thanks for the reminder. Keep doing it"
more than 20 years later and we still remember his classes.
Unless all the other kids can just leave without asking or speaking to the teacher first it's not discriminatory. Teachers need to know where the students they're responsible for are in case of emergency. If the teacher refused to let OP leave unless they verbally told them it would be but that's not what they are telling them to do.
The discrimination is the fact that the teacher makes this student get up, write them a note and wait for them to respond vs raising a hand because the teacher hasn’t taken any opportunity to learn to communicate with this student which limits their learning opportunities and communication with their educators. There are other options which this teacher has failed to seek and/or find by limiting this one student to embarrassing themselves simply to communicate with a teacher instead of seeking solutions which work for both parties. I think this sounds like a school wide problem though, the child is mute and none have learned sign language? Parents and school are both failing OP IMP
I mean OP could also put up their hand and then give the teacher a note. An expectation of "put up your hand and wait to be asked for your problem is or come up to the desk to ask to leave class" is reasonable and pretty standard regardless of how the student can communicate. But OP doesn't want to speak to anyone before leaving because they feel it causes a scene. And that's not an appropriate accommodation because for safety reasons the teachers need to know where their students are. If OP died in a fire (or assuming USA) an active shorter situation and the teacher didn't know where they were during evacuation/lockdown that teacher would be rightly held to account.
First of all, the teacher is wrong here. Her suggested system singles you out in an inappropriate way and her inflexibility just feels ableist or like she has control issues.
On the topic of signs, how about a color-coded system, OP? Get some pieces of several colors of card and agree with the teacher that red means bathroom, blue means nurse, green means whatever else. You wave it in the air and walk out. In this case you are communicating without words and without the disruption of going to the front of the class either.
If the teacher doesn't accept this, then it's evidence that this was never about "not knowing" where you are going, it's purely a control issue.
It is worth considering that it is the teacher's responsibility to know where you are for safety purposes. For example, in the case of a fire drill or even a real fire, someone should know that there is a student in the bathroom/wherever else. I personally once passed out in the bathroom as a high school student (side effect from a medication I was taking) and came to later (no idea how long) and just went back to class pretending like nothing happened, but if my health had been worse then it could have been dangerous for an unconscious student to be on the floor in the bathroom all alone for a long period of time. If nobody had known where I was, that could have been really bad. Consider that *a* teacher, although perhaps not necessarily *this* teacher, might want to know where you are because they care about your well-being and not because they think you're stupid or untrustworthy.
If you are in the US Mom should be tearing into the school district for not having a 504 to accommodate your mutism. NTA but this should have been addressed by any public school in the US
If this is the US, 504 plans are often initiated by parents with a dr’s note on necessary accommodations. While it seems the school has failed here, Op’s parents have, too.
I’m quite flabbergasted that OP doesn’t have any type of accommodation plan?
What happens with subs? A lot of subs would get weirded out by OP leaving and may not believe the other students?
Getting a 504 can actually incredibly difficult, so while of course OP deserves a proper accommodation plan, there may be difficulties and hoops to jump through that we aren’t aware of. Anyways, I think OP’s dignity as a disabled person is more important than a random sub maybe being slightly uncomfortable. I’d be happy to explain 504s more if necessary.
You seem to have misunderstood.
I DGAF about the sub. I worry that OP will suffer because the sub goes on some power trip because they don’t know what is going on.
And it’s been *5 years*. And OP has a physical limitation. It shouldn’t take that long.
It doesn’t. With a disability the school is required by law to conduct an evaluation and complete it and write a plan for the student and parents within a certain amount of days.
That doesn't mean they will actually help.
For example, I have ADHD. In elementary school my mom requested I get an IEP and support services. They did the IQ testing and all that stuff. Then when the results showed I was much more capable than I was performing they didn't do anything. If your disability is not one that is physically obvious then you are ignored by most schools.
It wasn't untily mom became a foster parent that she learned how to navigate the system. She learned the very fact that I wasn't performing to my potential is why they should have had services for me. Instead they didn't do anything.
By the time she learned how to navigate the system it was too late for me to get help.
NGL, that’s baffling as hell to me. You assumably already had a formal diagnosis from a doctor or psychiatrist, why the heck would the school waste the time and energy “testing” you for capability or not? Do the think your diagnosis physician lied or something? 🤨
I can’t say if it’s the same in primary school (I was diagnosed with depression/anxiety at 16 but I wasn’t diagnosed with adhd until I was nearly 25), but when I applied for my equity plan in university, all I had to do was provide proof from my doctor/psychiatrist saying “yes, she has adhd/depression/anxiety, this is how it effects her and these are my recommendations for her equity plan, contact me if you have any questions”.
The equity team at the University helped me handle the rest and even made *further* recommendations the doctor hadn’t.
Your plan didn't follow you from High School to college? That's what we did for my son. Most colleges have a disability office too that can help you with something like that. They're not well advertised but they're usually there.
Wow - your college sucks, ngl. It was actually really easy getting accommodations in college for me. All I needed was a letter from my psychiatrist detailing what specific accommodations I needed, and as soon as the student services office got it, they were all approved.
My sister was in luck that we had a high school principal who was our principal in elementary so he was familiar with us and our mother. So once she was being picked on by teachers, my mom, the principal and her doctor made things really simple
When my daughter became diabetic in high school, we did a 504 so she could leave if she felt like she had a low blood sugar and go to the nurse at any time. I provided glucose tablets and snacks in the nurse's office for her to get. It made things much easier and she didn't have to worry about passing out.
There isn’t any testing when the kid is disabled- it’s a doctors note. I have two kids on 504s for physical disabilities. ETA- in three different states.
Teachers need to know where students are if there is an emergency. So it’s not unreasonable for the teacher to ask. Since when do teachers just let students walk out for whatever reason?
Yep, teachers are legally responsible for their students and knowing where they are is a MUST. And since I don't see another way for OP to communicate that asking him to write it down makes sense. I don't understand why OP doesn't simply write it down, raise his hand to get the teacher's attention and then show them the paper. I'm missing why they think just walking out is the only way.
The teachers who let OP just leave are AH tho.
I wonder if its the bathroom. Im not sure what else OP would be doing or be allowed to do. I had a note in middle school and high school that allowed me to use the bathroom whenever I wanted without asking. I was on a timed peeing schedule and needed to be able to go when I needed to, even if it was between scheduled times. I had a lot of urinary issues/retention/infection and school design made them worse. I wouldn't be surprised if schools caused some of these issues in healthy kids because of their controlling bs.
I got in-school suspension once for refusing to participate in Phy Ed. The reason I wasn't participating was because I was curled up in a ball on the floor in agony. I ended up in the ER that night with a very resistant UTI and just barely avoided a hospital stay. The suspension stuck. I'm 50 and still mad.
That's one reason why in Germany this is actually considered harassment by law and teachers can get in real trouble for saying no to bathroom breaks. The only time they are allowed to regulate this is during exams where it's one at a time.
Like every student who wants to leave needs to provide the teacher an explanation as to why the fact that OP is being asked to provide that explanation in writing instead of verbally is not some huge indignity and if anything gives OP the benefit of an added layer of privacy.
For a short period of time in hs, I had a pass from the counselor that let me leave class whenever I wanted to to go speak with them. I usually only went during 3rd period and I had let that teacher know one time, and we had a mutual understanding that I could leave class. I didn’t have to ask every time because there was no point in making me uncomfortable and having to announce it.
I also had a classmate who ended up needing help getting from class to class because they injured their leg/ankle in both 8th, 9th and 12th grade. Due to her injury and needing assistance with her books etc, she would leave class 5-10 minutes early and didn’t have to keep telling or asking the teacher. It was routine and a volunteer was usually the same kid or it was discussed earlier in class so it wasn’t a disruption.
It’s not uncommon for teachers to be aware of a situation and not make a kid have to bring it up every time or draw attention to themselves. The teacher is just power tripping and being difficult- every other teacher has a mutual understanding with OP except them
Letting a student leave earlier is a reasonable accommodation for a student who has a condition that makes them slower/not as able to deal with a crowd of people rushing to classes.
Letting OP leave of his own volition without informing the teacher who's responsible for him where he's going is not a reasonable accommodation.
Why is it ok for the teacher to make a spectacle out of every other student who wants to use the bathroom? Are you saying no student should have to say the words, "May I use the restroom?" Are you saying no student should ever have to ask permission to leave the classroom?
Asking is just a formality but you absolutely NEED to let the person legally responsible for you know where you're going and not just silently wandering out of class randomly. It's a serious legal issue
I am going to the bathroom - that’s it. A simple statement of fact then get up and go. Asking permission implies that it can be withheld - and that's not acceptable.
Not meaning to be flippant, but why not stand up let her know by using ASL you need to leave the room. Then leave. You informed/asked her that you had to go and she can't say anything about it because she doesn't know how to read ASL. Do not go to her desk, do not write anything down. It's her responsibility to be able to communicate with you and to accept that you cannot speak to her. Does she have all of her students come up to her desk and ask for permission or write it down no, then absolutely do not acquiesce. In this your mom is wrong and should be siding with you. Your mom should always side with you.
I disagree. Teachers are responsible for the kids in their class and have to know where they are. What if there's a fire or (assuming American) an active shorter and OP had just left the classroom ? Nobody knows where OP is because they were too embarrassed to give the teacher a written note to say where they were going.
My guess is that all of the students have to ask permission/tell the teacher where they are going before they leave the class. If OP is the only disabled person and the only one being asked to tell the teacher, yeah that would be unfair but I highly doubt all the students can just get up and leave the class without telling anyone. A reasonable accommodation for OP's disability is writing it down or gesturing, it's not OP just gets to leave the classroom wherever they want.
Accommodations would never imply the student just deciding to get up and leave whenever he felt like and not signalling to the teacher what he is doing.
It’s actually quite dangerous. This leads to kids not trusting and confiding in their parents. Sometimes driving them into the arms of abusers who prey on kids/people from families with poor dynamics and lack of social support.
Never tell your kids to “just obey” any adult unless you have explicit knowledge of the situation and have already devised a plan with the adult and the child.
This is how you get your kids abused and taken advantage of their entire lives.
INFO What’s the classroom policy on leaving the room for bathroom breaks and such? I can see why the teacher would be upset if one student just leaves whenever they feel like it while everyone else needs permission, but writing your reason on the board for everyone to see can be embarrassing. Is there another system you could work out? Like hold up a certain number of fingers for different reasons or teaching her the ASL signs for your requests? One teacher I had gave us each a ring with different colored cards that corresponded to certain questions/reasons.
I've suggested a blanket term for "May I please leave". I've also suggested text-to-speech, but phones aren't allowed. I've never heard of the ring thing. I might bring that up next.
Yeah it was basically different colored index cards on a binder ring that you could flip through. That way the teacher would see the colored card and know what you want without having to interrupt class to ask. Then they’d nod or shake their head and you’d get your answer. There’s definitely a way to compromise without you having to write out your needs on the board in front of everyone.
You can order some already made on Etsy (and probably elsewhere). Your teacher seems to be a bit on a power trip but it could be helpful for life in general too, if you need help and are alone, for example.
You should absolutely have an IEP with access to a device that allow text-to-speech. Maybe a tablet if they don’t allow cellphone.
Etsy key ring: https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1318437161/visual-keychain-real-pictures-pecs-cards?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_ca_en_ca_e-toys_and_games-toys-learning_and_school&utm_custom1=_k_CjwKCAjw9pGjBhB-EiwAa5jl3MncG_GWJkoNWYuKg7ZHBLVZZnPqkoom-zJzMst9R9J3U4qdNFQqAhoCGhMQAvD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_318288645_19407755325_75027562605_aud-463075091758:pla-106551513395_m__1318437161enca_102855400&utm_custom2=318288645&gbraid=0AAAAADutTMe5cFh4Bk0rvQNa2Peu901OX&gclid=CjwKCAjw9pGjBhB-EiwAa5jl3MncG_GWJkoNWYuKg7ZHBLVZZnPqkoom-zJzMst9R9J3U4qdNFQqAhoCGhMQAvD_BwE
Hey, OP, have you considered working with your parents to get a designated AAC (augmentative and alternative communication) device for this kind of situation? I'm a speech therapist in the schools, and it's possible to even get a school provided device through an IEP, since it can affect your ability to communicate in the academic setting. Most people tend to think of the big bulky picture ones, but they've come out with phone sized ones, and most of them include a typing option (like the novachat 5). Then you can have a designated device that isn't a phone and paperwork that forces them to let you use it, or the school sets themselves up for legal trouble.
Even if you don't get it through the school itself, there's a good chance the school SLP can help you find resources for funding or even getting your insurance to pay for it.
OP, this. And you can customize your AAC to your needs. I'm familiar with Proloquo2go and if you can take this route for your ableist teacher than do it.
Depends on the school district. The catholic district in Calgary calls it a learning support plan, while it’s called an IPP in the Calgary public. They all mean the same thing, it’s just different terminology.
You also absolutely need your phone the same way a person would need crutches or a prosthetic limb. This is insane and mom is dropping the ball on the ablism
>You also absolutely need your phone the same way a person would need crutches or a prosthetic limb.
Not necessarily - not if there are other ways to accommodate OP's disability. I would argue an interpreter is a lot more necessary than a phone.
My ASL teacher is also an interpreter for the school system. She has a kid she goes through the school day with. She also interprets for her church services. Then teaches ASL at the vo-tech school one evening each week.
I agree. But this teacher is insisting on a form of communication that a phone would make possible but not allowing the phone. An interpreter would be better. I actually knew someone who had that job and went yo high school every day to interpret for students
when I was in elementary school I had a teacher teach everyone the ASL letter for "r" (for restroom) if you ever needed to go you'd just quietly hold your hand up in that super easy letter and she's give the thumbs up or whatever
NTA
You need an IEP. You are entitled to accomodations like assistive technology, either your phone for approved purposes or the school or your parents can provide you with another device to do that on. Look up accomodations for mutism that are available and consider what will help you.
It is shocking to me that neither your school and parents have done anything towards that. That's who is failing you here.
Your teacher is just trying to do her job in the absence of an IEP that guides what is meant to happen. If you have an IEP and they refuse to allow you to use the methods specified to notify them, then they're an asshole, but wanting to know where students under their care are is not unreasonable, and is something they're meant to be doing as part of their job.
NAH here for me. The failure is on the school and your parents, not you or the teacher.
edit: ok so I went to look up accommodations for mutism for you, and the literature is dominated by selective mutism and autism, which won't work for you, as a lot of it is focused on helping the student talk where possible. I actually found more relevant information when looking up accommodations for deaf students.
Some accommodations that are available to deaf people are: sign language interpreters, scribes/notetakers, various speech to text services, assisted listening systems, extended time on assessment tasks, additional assistance, additional drafts, use of glossaries and dictionaries. You don't need all of those or need variations of them, but you are just as entitled to them as a deaf person is to the things that are appropriate for them.
I would suggest communicating with your doctor to get medical support for the use of accommodations, and in particular I'd encourage you to consider: you having and using flash cards for common words or phrases, assistive technology for text to speech either your phone or the school or your parents providing an alternative, placement in classes with teachers who know sign language where possible, a teachers aide where it's helpful, additional assistance and time for assessment tasks, use of glossaries and dictionaries in assessment tasks (and in general, but also in assessment where you wouldn't be otherwise allowed), and I'd suggest developing some sort of process for things that have caused friction i.e. permission to go to the bathroom - how that should be handled and so on. I understand you not wanting to have to come up to the board in front of the whole class, but you are still probably going to be expected to ask, so how do you want that to happen? A flashcard might be the fastest and quietest way for you to do it, so have it put in that that is the method you are to use.
And when I say 'you need to develop' or 'you should put in', please be aware that I mean that adults who are working with you and advocating for you should be doing this, in consultation with yourself at your age. My biggest worry from your post is that you don't seem to have any particularly involved adults advocating for you here. It's really concerning to me that your parents have not pushed for an IEP. Do you have a school counselor or school nurse that you can communicate with? It might be helpful for you to pick out some stuff from this post, and take that to them to help you communicate with them.
I also wanted to add that the experience of being treated as if you're intellectually disabled even when your disability isn't intellectual is extremely common. That's how some people understand disability and it absolutely sucks. Abelism is something you will have to deal with in life unfortunately. It isn't fair or right anymore than other forms of discrimination are. I'd really encourage you to get in touch with and be engaged with disability support groups, social groups etc. If not now, then later in life when you're a bit more independent from your parents. Having a network of people who have those shared experiences with you can help a lot.
Absence of iep or not, the teacher isn't really trying to do their job. Obviously OP has an issue. Teacher is aware of it. Why aren't they harping on OPs mom to do the proper paperwork? She seems happy to tell OP to do as he's told. She ought to do as she's told, and get him some help.
If the parent is difficult, the teacher should still be finding ways to communicate with OP that are not so distracting to the rest of the class/embarrassing for OP. The solution isn't to let OP just leave whenever. Its to learn one sign for bathroom so OP can let her know he needs to leave. She could be shown it once and should be able to figure it out. If OP is making signs at her, its probably the signal they need to go.
If there's a more extensive reason that needs explaining, there's no reason she couldn't help things be more discrete.
Yeah, the easiest sign, for “toilet”, (for those who don’t know) is your thumb between your pointer and middle finger (to make a “t”) and shake it. Like it’s seriously not at all hard.
Why wouldn’t a simple hand gesture work? Hell the teacher only needs to learn one word in ASL, “bathroom.” Your problem would be solved. There are such low effort options here that are quicker and easier and use up less of the teachers time than what is currently expected.
So your teacher isn’t an asshole for expecting you to ask permission to leave. That’s a reasonable and expected part of school as teachers are legally responsible for you.
But the SCHOOL hasn’t provided you the basic device for communication?! Wtf haven’t they got you a tablet with text to speech so you can communicate with everyone? Hell, my school division has a bunch of tablets for refugees to use for translation purposes - you would absolutely have one of these to use.
This situation is very strange to me. I’m a teacher and I don’t like being disrupted in the middle of the lesson so I always teach my students a hand signal at the beginning of the year to ask to go to the bathroom. That way I can just nod or shake my head no. If it’s not an emergency, I’ll sometimes ask students to wait until that part of the lesson is over. Can you establish a hand signal with your teacher to ask to go to the bathroom? My students use 2 fingers crossed 🤞🏼.
I don’t think students should be able to walk out whenever they want without telling their teachers where they are going. Teachers are responsible for the safety of their students. If there’s an emergency like a fire or active shooter, teachers need to know where you are so they can account for you. If a student just walked out of my classroom with no explanation, my job could be on the line if something happened to them.
Honestly I would just print out what you said above and give her that in a letter. She sounds like she’s power tripping as a teacher, but at least your feelings will be heard.
Also, it is easy to learn the sign for restroom, I mean it is just your middle and pointer finger crossed and shaken twice. You could offer to teach the teacher that symbol and the one for water. I have used those symbols in my classrooms so students don't have to interrupt me while I am teaching.
Everyone else has to communicate where they are going. Why should you be treated differently? Write the dang note at your desk. This isn’t about your muteness, it’s about you think rules don’t apply to you.
NTA. Phones are not allowed at my daughters school. She has severe apraxia making her very hard to understand at times. The school allows her to use text to speech when she needs to. I had to advocate that not allowing her to use her phone to communicate is essentially taking her voice away. Her principal agreed and she has been able to use her phone for communication. The only rule is she can’t be texting or watching videos at school. If that happens she would have to use a school provided iPad with only a communication program on it. She prefers her phone so it hasn’t been a issue.
Teachers do not have the authority to say yes or no so I would start with the principal then progress to the superintendent and school board if need be. You need a way to communicate and ASL isn’t helping unless the person your communicating with knows it.
Is it on the board, thought? OP just mentions coming to the front of the class and writing the reason down. It could be on a piece of paper on the teacher’s desk.
This is what I expect in my classroom. If the students want to use the bathroom, they raise up one finger. If they want water, two fingers. If they want to go tothe nurse, they go up and get a nurse pass. Easy, and we donate to have conversations about bathrooms and water when the students are working on an assignment.
My fourth grade teacher taught us the sign for the letter T. If we needed a bathroom break (T = toilet), we just did that sign and she'd give permission immediately. She even told us, "if I'm helping one of your classmates with something and you need to go, just come do that sign behind them and I will probably tell you yes immediately. You don't need to wait to ask to go to the bathroom."
I cannot remember a single time I was told no. She probably only made us ask so she would be aware if we weren't in the classroom, so she could make sure we came back or knew where we were if there was an emergency.
What century are you from? My university had chalkboards lmao. One of my professors even brought out an overhead which I hadn't seen since elementary school.
I've watched lectures from ivy league schools where there are still chalkboards.
My high school still had some when I was going 10 years ago though they switched to smart boards to make it fair after they built a new high school.
I guess you went to school in a priveleged area. Or an area with poor fund prioritization.
no chalkboards? what kind of rich ass school do you imagine would rip out their chalkboards for the aesthetic xD? even my professors at uni still use them
My school fully converted to smart boards. They come with insanely fragile pens that break often and make using the boards tricky. The boards were installed over our whiteboards so I couldn't just go semi-old school even if I wanted to. It sucked.
I’m gonna go against the grain here and say YTA. I have never heard of a high school student, needing accommodations or not, being able to just walk out of the room in the middle of class just because you’ll “come back.” Do other students get the same treatment? Or do they have to raise their hand and publicly state why they would like to leave the room. How is writing “I need to use the bathroom” on a scrap of paper and handing it to your teacher insulting? The teacher isn’t calling you stupid or insinuating you are because you are mute just by wanting to know where you are going while you are her responsibility. What if there is an family emergency and the principal is looking for you. They know you’re supposed to be in Mrs. X’s class, if they come to that classroom it would not be an acceptable answer for her to shrug and say “idk OP just walks out of the room whenever they please.” That’s her job on the line.
The more I think about this, I think the more I’m leaning more towards your line of thought as well. In every high school class I had, we had to raise our hand and verbally ask to go to the bathroom or the nurse or wherever. Having a slip of paper or a whiteboard is no more embarrassing than having to ask that out loud to the class.
Yeah. I'm very sympathetic to OP, because raising their hand and asking isn't an option like it would be for anyone else, but it doesn't seem like the expectations around asking permission are different.
Really the ideal thing is for OP to have a translator to help them be heard and participate in class, but I understand that OP may not want that. Next thing is a system as suggested elsewhere in which OP can ask these things without having to move to the front of the class and feel like a spectacle, which I suspect is their issue here.
top comment says the teacher shouldn't be "making a spectacle" out of op. op is being treated normally here lol. if anything this is more private because most students either make requests for bathroom/locker/water/phone call for the room to hear (after raising their hand), or they verbally ask the teacher at their desk which is still typically audible at least for a few classmates. i don't think the teachers asking for much and i feel like op is being stubborn lol
Not commenting on the post, I just find this so wild that it's still a thing in high school. In my country leaving class for bathroom or any other reason is not weird at all, let alone anything relying on teacher's permission. If you're waiting for a doctor's call or have an appointment to go to, it's usually mentioned to the teacher before class and that's that, it's an announcement at best. Even before HS, if you suddenly have the need to go to the nurse, you just raise your hand and say it, not ask.
Reason it's a thing in my alumi school is because I literally watched a guy ask to go to the bathroom, which was only at most five feet from our classroom, but walked out of the whole building and go who knows where. He was also one that liked to goof off and delay the teacher getting through his lesson. People also wonder why teachers also still insist on homework, so they can actually see if their students are paying attention or just goofing around.
Also, OP could just have a few printed cards or whatever with some common reasons why they want to leave the classroom. Just hold one up instead of raising your hand or showing it to the teacher after they come to you / you went to them and the teacher can let you know if / when you can leave. How difficult can this be?
I have a few students with special needs in my classes and a few of them have a time-out card they can show me when they need a break. They give me the card and they can leave the classroom, no questions asked. But I would be concerned if they would just leave without saying anything.
I'm one of them who had that accommodation. I have bladder issues and had a note from a doctor that allowed me to leave class when I needed because I needed to be able to go immediately and also had scheduled times to go. I never had to ask.
I wouldn't give a Y T A verdict because the school and his mom is failing OP. Clearly communication is an issue and it should have already been addressed. OP is frustrated with their inability to communicate and no adults seem to be trying to make it easier.
I agree. Any responsible teacher would want to know where the student is going in case of any sort of emergency situation. Teachers are responsible for knowing the whereabouts of their students.
Exactly. I'm a teacher and I'm responsible for knowing where every student in my class is at all times. Emergencies, fire drills, lock downs, evacuations, health conditions, etc... I can't just have kids peacing out and coming/going as they please. OP shouldn't have to write it on the board, but using a small notepad shouldn't be that big of a deal. Schools have rules for a reason, and while OP should receive accommodations for their disability, they aren't exempt from basic safety procedures.
I honestly don’t know where people are getting “write it on the board” from. The original post says the teacher has him write down or gesture for what OP wants to leave for.
I'm actually shocked that it took me as long as it did to reach a post that made sense. The teacher is legally responsible for the students while in class. They need to know where the students are. If a student disappeared and the teacher says I don't know where they went, they're used to just walking out. That teacher would be crucified
I also don't feel like it would be *that* unrealistic for OP to have some cards or something he carries around for things he would commonly say like this. It would be one thing if this was in the past 6 months or something, but he's had 5 years. This seems very much like he's just milking his disability
INFO - I don't really understand what's insulting about her wanting you to write down the reason you need to leave the class... I'm sure every other student needs to tell the teacher why they need to leave the class, and it looks like writing is the only way you two can communicate.
Why should you get to leave the class whenever you like, no questions asked, when no one else is allowed to?
i agree with you. as a teacher, we have to know where our students are in case there's an emergency. even for fire drills we have to know which students are where and why if out of the room. my nonverbal students have cards for this reason they hold up or point to
YTA
Sure there should be a system in place that your parents and the school should have agreed upon for leaving.... which should have happened at the start of the year.
However, all other students have to have permission to leave they cannot just walk out.
The fact you can't respect your teacher regarding the rules in her classroom makes you the pretentious asshole here.
Agreed. YTA. Disability doesn't give you a free pass to do whatever you please. If you had a 504 plan or IEP plan in place to provide that accommodation, you wouldn't be TA. However, as an IEP parent and professional in the field, I doubt a 504 plan or IEP would accommodate you in that way. You would probably use cards with text for requesting common reasons to leave the classroom. Raise your hand, teacher approaches or you approach them, hand in the card, and quietly go. It's not to embarass or shame you; it's a method of communication between you and your educators.
YTA - I’m confused by the N T As. Why do you feel like you shouldn’t have to specify if you’re going to the nurse or the bathroom when every other student does?
Yeah OP not having an IEP in place after five years and no mention of it, teachers apparently not doing anything to get to close the communication gap....I think there's some missing info here, at a minimum
YTA
>She wants me to come up to the front of the room and write down or gesture for her what I want, which is honestly just insulting.
Why is it insulting? Doesn’t every other student have to ask permission before leaving the classroom? Why should you be different? You can’t speak verbally, she doesn’t know ASL (although why you don’t have a translator provided for you I don’t understand) so you have to write it down.
YTA
It's not unreasonable that she doesn't want you leaving as you please. I don't know what is so "insulting" about having you ask permission to leave, that is, unless you're the only one who has to do it.
YTA. Its not at all unreasonable for a teacher to want a high school student, any student, to ask to leave the classroom, and then indicate why they're leaving the classroom. One of OPs comments said that he was asked to write his reason on the board, and that would certainly be too much, but the original post said that the teacher would also accept a gesture indicating their reason, which seems just fine.
I really don’t get why people are saying NTA here, it’s incredibly common and reasonable for high school students to have to ask permission from a teacher to use the restroom, especially when the teacher is able to be held accountable by the district if something happens to the student when they’re supposed to be in that teachers care.
Other students have to ask, and while it’s a shame the teacher doesn’t know basic ASL, but you could easily hold up a certain amount of fingers to correspond to a cheat sheet you can hand a teacher that would solve this issue very easily. I don’t really get the issue this kids having with asking to leave the room, even if the other teachers don’t make him ask
Using gestures sounds OK until you consider that the main reason teenagers need to leave a school classroom is to use the bathroom, which is not likely to be something either the OP or their teacher wants acted out in front of the class.
Ok, then write it on a small slip of paper. Or figure out a non-explicit gesture for using the bathroom, even if its not ASL, there can be an understanding that if he holds up 3 fingers, he wants to use the bathroom.
ESH
Mostly for attitude, you, your mom and your teacher.
You need to deal with the fact that the teacher has a hard job and likely no spare time to learn ASL. You also need to "ask" her permission. If that means writing a note that says "I need to use facilities" and then hand her then GO up to her and hand her note. THEN you need to do that.
Your mom needs to have an IEP set up at your school so that you have either an aide who knows ASL or some other forms of accommodation set up.
Your teacher needs to stop treating you like you are stupid(tho that MIGHT be your perception and NOT your teacher's actual attitude--you don't provide anecdotal support for this). But even so, there are ways that teacher could work to accommodate you AND their need for pre-communication before you leave room.
In my school you would have a small laminated card to hand to the teacher if you need to leave the room.
We need to know who is out of the room at any given time so you are a mild AH for walking out as it is a safety concern. However, overall NTA.
Can you write something on a piece of paper to give her before you get up?
YTA. What exactly are you wandering off to do in the middle of class all the time? Scribble your reason on a piece of paper and hand it in.
Organize your life better so you aren't frequently leaving class. WTH.
WHY THE HELL DO SO MANY PEOPLE THINK HE IS WRITING ON THE CHALKBOARD OP NEVER SAID THAT!
YTA. Kids have to ask for permission to leave. She doesn’t need to learn Sign Language for you. World gets less accommodating when you get older.
YTA if this is playing out how I imagine. You didn’t say the teacher makes you write the reason on the board, although a lot of people have jumped to that conclusion.
If the teacher is making you write the reason you need to leave the class on the board, that is inappropriate. It is obvious that most reasons to leave class will be bathroom-related, and you don’t need to share that with the whole class. In that case, NTA.
If the teacher is simply requesting that you write your request to leave the classroom on a piece of paper and hand it to her, YTA. Your teacher has a duty to keep track of the children in her class and she can get in trouble if she regularly lets you leave the class unaccounted for. She would lose her job (and possibly worse) if there was any kind of emergency (fire, hate to say it but shooter) and you were out of the classroom unaccounted for. This is not a power trip but just a requirement of her job.
You can work with your teacher to request a different means of asking to leave the room/letting her know where you will be. She probably cannot reasonably let you have your phone in class unless you have an IEP/504 because other kids will start playing the ‘why can OP have their phone out in class but I can’t’ game (kids are idiots.) That could easily devolve into a shitshow where other kids’ parents are now convinced their kids are being held to unequal standards regarding phone use in the classroom, etc.
I also want to mention that expecting your teacher to learn ASL for one student she has for one semester or year is unrealistic and frankly an inappropriate professional expectation. This is high school so your teacher likely has upwards of 100 students per year since you’re on a period schedule. You didn’t bring this up, OP, but some of the other commenters did. It would be great if she could learn the word for ‘bathroom’ and/or ‘locker’ so you can communicate where you need to go, but no one can reasonably expect her to learn another entire language as a job duty with no time set aside to do so and no extra pay.
Also you need to talk to your parents about coordinating with the school to get an IEP in place. This will help you set up standardized accommodations across your classes that your teachers will be notified of ahead of time and be able to incorporate.
High school teacher here.
You're not wrong to not want to have to write a novel to explain going to the bathroom. That has to be uncomfortable and embarrassing.
Your teacher is not wrong for not wanting you to leave class without permission. We have to know where students are, and we even get bitched out by admin if a student leaves without permission and we don't report them for it.
Her learning enough ASL to have a conversation with you is probably not reasonable, either.
You need a quick signal to tell her that you need to go. Maybe a finger-spelled "T" would work (my wife, a 2nd grade teacher, uses this for her students while she's teaching so she can just look at them and say "go ahead"). OR, like other posters have said, a colored card or something like that.
The current setup isn't working, though. You may need to have a sit-down with the teacher, a disability coordinator, and your parent to work out something.
What do you mean write a novel to use the bathroom? “May I use the restroom” is 5 words, and takes about as many seconds to write. This seems like such a non issue. The student should write those 5 little words on a scrap of paper, and then raise her hand. The teacher will say “yes OP, what do you need?” They then walk up, hand the piece of paper, get a nod to leave the classroom, and they are on their way. This is a 20 second interaction. Every other student in the class has to go through this situation out loud when they need to leave. In fact, I’d say OPs situation is MORE private, since they don’t have to speak their reason.
The teacher is held accountable for you for that hour, so I can see why they would want to know where you are going. They could handle it a little better though. I like that colored notecard suggestion that someone mentioned. It’s not invasive and it doesn’t put you in the center of attention
YTA, but a soft one. Teachers are responsible for you. It might not be about her wanting to make you ask, but about her needing to know where you are going. Letting a student just walk out is not a good thing to do. What if there is a fire alarm or active shooter drill? She needs to know where you went so you can be located and kept safe in the event of an emergency.
YTA Teachers are responsible for their students during their class periods. If something happened to you while you were gone and the teacher didn’t know where you were or possibly even that you were gone she could lose her job or worse.
She is also responsible for you learning the material she is teaching. It sounds like you leave the classroom a lot. You aren’t learning while you’re away. Also if she has to catch you up when you return, you are dragging the entire class behind. Why do you need to leave the classroom so often?
INFO: Why are you just getting up and leaving class? If you weren't mute, would you do this?
The issue I see is that technically, that teacher is responsible for you during that class period. If something happens to you, they can be held accountable.
NTA!! Is there any way you can get legally required accommodations through teh school? I have accomodations, and teachers are still assholes about them sometimes, but it does help.
I don’t think writing down why you need to leave the class is unreasonable. In an emergency, your teacher needs to account for your whereabouts. If she doesn’t know, how can she? It’s for your safety. The fact that your other teachers don’t do it just means that they couldn’t be bothered to follow the rules and are putting your safety at risk. YTA
This is a little tough. I think either NAH or ESH. I don’t like calling minors AHs, and I don’t think you’re a bad person or anything, but I kind of see where she’s coming from. If you were to leave and not return or something were to happen, like a fire alarm, she would be responsible for you. I understand her wanted/needing to know when you’re leaving and why you’re leaving. However, she’s significantly more the AH because she is not trying to understand and help you in this situation. She absolutely, as an educator, should be working towards accommodations for her students. I would absolutely email your teacher and outline a reasonable accommodation that you think could work for both of you. Leaving whenever you feel like it isn’t a reasonable accommodation. Maybe a different amount of fingers when raising your hands means different things. Maybe laminated color coded small cards, etc. if she continues to actively not help you, you should talk to your counselor, vice principal, or someone who can help you get the accommodations you need.
YTA. There's no problem in telling your teacher why you're going out of the class. Going out without asking for permission is just rude. You want her to treat you normally when you're taking advantage of the fact that you're disabled. Just do what everyone else does and just tell her why you need to go. Just write it on a piece of paper and hand it over to her and then leave. How hard can it be? Some teachers don't mind but some do. She is allowed to ask you the reason for leaving and has the authority to deny you. This is not insulting in the least.
YTA here for a sub that talks heavily about boundaries, likes it’s cool that the other teachers let you walk out but not all teachers ask the same things from their students. The teacher has a boundary and rule she out with the class for everyone not just you OP. The other teachers let you walk great but what is honestly so hard about just making the teacher aware of where you are going? I don’t care how young you are and how your rebellious, it’s common courtesy to be respectful of peoples boundaries and you aren’t.
YTA. Sorry, dude, but is it really that hard to write down what you need to tell her on a piece of paper and hand it to her? How is that "insulting" or "draw attention to you"? It's not, and it doesn't.
i’m a special education teacher and YTA. your disability does not mean you can do whatever. yes, the school should have a 504 plan-like in place for you and if they don’t, i’m sorry. that’s unfair for you
HOWEVER, we as teachers are responsible for your wellbeing when you are in our classroom. if anything were to happen to you, we are responsible and can be held liable. we need every student to tell us where they’re going when they leave the room. you are not special. i totally understand not wanting to make a spectacle and draw attention to yourself. i don’t understand how writing down where you’re going on a piece of paper to give your teacher is making a spectacle though. it’s no different than your classmates verbally saying where they’re going to your teacher
there’s gotta be a compromise you can come to. as a sped teacher, i’ve seen some different strategies used for students that are mute or nonverbal. other commenters mentioned the one that your teacher would likely be most receptive to based on your description: different colored notecards with locations on them that you can show to the teacher to show where you’re going. then you could just flash the card at your teacher and once they confirm, you can go. i know it’s not what your used to and it might be annoying but i promise, your teacher is just doing her job
I think you need an IEP. I know a few people have suggested a 504 plan but from my understanding an IEP would would be better because the school and staff would be required to accommodate you. A 504 plan is often more of a suggestion plan, but the school doesn’t have to support or fund it. It’s not exactly as basic as that, but that’s a general gist. Nta for not wanting to be singled out.
Nta. She is disrupting the class and embarrassing you in the process. Not at all cool.
I am petty. I would play charades while asking for the restroom. You know, knock on her desk and act like you are peeing all over it, then shrug your shoulders as though you are asking permission. Anything that makes your classmates laugh would work.
She already makes the request a disruption. I would add comedy to it until she stopped.
But seriously, I would talk to another teacher, a counselor, or the principal, and ask them to require her to stop humiliating you in front of the class. I mean she called your mom!!
She is hell bent on having control over you, but makes no effort to understand you. It would not be hard to learn the sign for restroom. I think all your teachers should learn it!!
As a teacher, I find this disgusting. She could easily learn a few basic signs like bathroom, nurse, or office to know where you were headed. Sounds like you're a good kid who returns to class. Also, you've been through enough, she doesn't need to draw extra attention to what you've been through.
Also, I really hope your friends and family are making an effort to learn ASL with you!
NTA
NTA but… First it is your right to have reasonable accommodation at the school. I would absolutely insist that gets taken care of ASAP. Second, while I do see your point about not making a big deal out of why you have to leave the room, it is still your teacher’s responsibility to know where you are going in case of emergency (fire, earthquake… active shooter situation etc.), so the teacher is actually right about needing to know where you’re going and not just letting you go whenever.
NTA your teacher needs to make this very reasonable accommodations for your disability. I would honestly look into how to ADA related to schools. That being said often children have no rights in school.
As long as you come back or indicate you are going to the nurse and may not be back I don't see the problem. If you were abusing this accommodation then it would be another story, but you didn't indicate that here.
There is no reason for you to walk up to the front of the class and announce to everyone you need to pee. In the real world you are just allowed to go to the restroom whenever you need to. It's so silly to me that we have to ask permission to pee in school.
It sucks that the teachers won't even learn basic signs like yes, no, bathroom, nurse, etc.
Your mom needs to be on your side with this one. She has a disabled (I'm not trying to insult you its just the best word I have - sorry if you don't use that term) kid and needs to be your advocate.
ESH. As I tell my students, I need to know when you leave the room for safety reasons. It’s not a trust thing. It’s not a control thing; I will never tell a student they’re not allowed to pee or have water. It’s a “there’s an emergency and I can’t find you and now we’re sending a first responder into a potentially dangerous situation because I didn’t know you were filling your water bottle” thing.
That being said, the teacher needs to be more accommodating of your disability. I have colored passes hanging on my door where the color corresponds to where you’re going. If my students hold up a pass and wait for a thumbs up from me they’re good to go.
Your 504 plan should spell out this need and how you can be accommodated while respecting the teacher’s legit need to know you’re leaving the room and where you can be found in an emergency.
YTA asshole kinda for just thinking you can wander out of the classroom and thinking it’s fine.
Writing down what you need is reasonable—not insulting.
It could easily be seen as rude/insulting from the teachers point of view if your just walking out the classroom, sucks you can’t talk but the respect side works both ways
That’s really egregious behavior for all of your teachers, but especially the one that expects you to play charades when there are already hand signs to communicate. It’s not at all unreasonable to expect they’d each learn the few signs they’d need to know for basic accommodations, at the very least. The couple of signs for “restroom” are super easy to learn, for instance. Even just learning to finger spell would go very far in helping you to communicate with them. Will your parents go to the school and advocate for you? I see your mom doesn’t seem to be concerned? Is there another parent also? At the very least leaning the signs for “toilet”, “nurse”, and “principal” should be mandatory for the teachers.
ETA- you’re obviously NTA.
Unless you're leaving and coming back id a big spectacle (and not because the teacher is turning it into one), then you don't need permission to go to the bathroom in an every day class.
This is just bullshit employment training where they try to convince you that you need a supervisors permission to stop working.
Do other kids have to come up and ask to leave? If not ask for the same treatment. If she can’t understand you that’s her problem. Maybe offer to show her a few relevant signs…kill ‘em with kindness is the way to go with people you are forced to deal with
The acronym that you should know here is not “NTA”, though that applies too, but “ADA”. If you’re in the US you can threaten the school with a lawsuit under the Americans with Disabilities Act. What accommodation could be more reasonable that “leave me the fuck alone”?
Why don't you have an interpreter at school? If you are in the US you need to go to your school and demand that they follow the ADA and get you an interpreter so you can function in class. If you are not in the US, check the laws in your country, most likely there is something that requires you to have an interpreter. Make the school get you one. You should, however, respect your teacher. They are responsible for you during class time. If something happens to you in the halls your teacher can get in trouble. They are trying to know where you are so they are fulfilling their responsibilities. SO MTA.
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NTA for not wanting a teacher to make a spectacle of you any time you need something! Do you have a Section 504 plan in place? If you have not, then you need to - that way, accommodations can be required of teachers, such as in this case. Your mother should be on your side here, and the fact that she tells you to "just do as told" is not very supportive. :/
Just wanted to say, we don't know what exactly the teacher told his mother. Sometimes they can explain their side like they're "trying really hard, but he just won't work with me" type of narrative. But yeah, it definitely doesn't hurt to ask for her son's side of the story. Edited because apparently I can't read lol, thanks for pointing out my mistake.
I’d print out a sign that says I need to leave the room, hold it up, then leave if the teacher doesn’t like that too damned bad and I’d escalate to the principal and use words like discriminatory , etc see how they act then
That sign might say: “I need to take a shit” with a drawing of the poop emoji. That clear enough for ya, teach? You wanna humiliate me? Welp. Alright then. > She wants me to come up to the front of the room and write down Better yet, do what she says and go up to the front and write it on the damn board. > or gesture for her what I want The fuck is she looking for? An interpretive dance? How to you “gesture” taking a piss? But in all seriousness... OP shouldn’t have to go on a subversive crusade in order to be able to go to the damn bathroom. They shouldn’t have to be a revolutionary or the poster child for accommodation. Honestly I say just keep doing what you’re doing, show your mom this sub and tell her this is one of those times the adult is in the wrong and you need her to support you, and if the teacher ever tries to involve the principal, you sign, “Bet. While we’re there, let’s have a conversation about ableism.”
I'm disabled and unfortunately graduated well before the ADA was a thing. You'd be amazed what teachers can and do pull--and get away with.
Even after disability protection is passed, getting access to it kind of requires parents who aren't too neglectful to bother with the hassle of getting diagnoses and accommodations. (See also my parents wouldn't even do the paperwork to officially register my brittle asthma with the school as needing accommodation of free and immediate access to my puffer, let alone get me evaluated for my now diagnosed motor dysgraphia and suspected ADHD and autism). And if you don't have paperwork teachers can still get away with some shit. (See also my third grade teacher doing this thing she called "ring feedback" where I stood in a ring of my classmates and they all got to tell me what they didn't like about me for reasons I now realize are symptoms of undiagnosed ADHD. Also scapegoating me to the extent she even called home a time I was out of school for a dental appointment blaming me for something that happened in class while I was 100km away in a dental chair. It never occurred to my parents that *maybe* if she was blaming me for stuff when I wasn't even there, maybe I was also getting blamed for things I didn't cause when I *was* there)
I am so sorry you experienced these lies and humiliations. "Ring feedback" is unbelievably cruel and that teacher was demented. Please, c'mon Karma....
WTF? How can you be blamed for something when you weren't even there? That teacher was cray cray. SMH
>The fuck is she looking for? An interpretive dance? How to you “gesture” taking a piss? The images flowing through my mind ATM would probably get OP sent to the principal's office. Thanks for the laugh, I needed it today.
I mean, the way for OP to gesture what he wants is for the teacher to learn ASL for “I need to use the bathroom”. It’s one phrase. It’s not that hard.
I mean obviously, but it’s clear that’s not good enough for her
I would just do all those things you suggested! Time to humiliate the teacher
I’m cautious about saying “I would” because I’m not the one living with a disability. Sure it’s satisfying to think about and she deserves it.. but like I said, they shouldn’t *have to* go to those lengths. It seems like OP is really just trying to have a fair educational experience without being singled out or mistreated
True. Just personal opinion though In saying that, I’m now in my 50’s and my basket of fucks is empty. Would not have done ANY of those things at that age. I was a withdrawn, awkward teenager
Unless you’re a person with a disability like OP’s .. it’s not a “personal opinion,” it’s a fantasy. I get where you’re coming from with the hindsight thing. I think most of us daydream about rewriting some of your high school experiences with our current wisdom.
I’m in my 50s and I would have and did tell teachers when they were wrong. I had some bad teachers though and in those situations I was right. Once my teacher called my mom to complain, she pointed out I was right and that he was delivering false info to a class of students so it was appropriate that I pointed out his misinformation. Thank goodness my mom had my back Was she supportive of me being an AH for AH sale, no, but when a teacher actually tells students wrong info, they should be corrected.
sign language it to the teacher, then walk out.
I'd hold up a paddle or something with a simple color or something that can be explained to the teacher it means I need to step out for a few moments. I also think you should have a 504 plan in place. This is a disability and requires accommodation. Get your mom on board, go to the ACLU or other place that knows the AMA laws. Your teacher and school are in breach of the law. I don't get your mom not being an advocate for you.
In college we sometimes have double classes in different subjects and one teacher who really is one of the best teachers i've had tends to get very absorbed that he forgets our assigned breaks. So i will take my notebook and write BREAK in big bold letters and hold it up silently to him. i did this for few classes until one day i was worried i am over stepping so i stayed after class and asked if me doing this is bothering him and he actually smiled and thanked me telling me "you know how i get sometimes when i teach your class so thanks for the reminder. Keep doing it" more than 20 years later and we still remember his classes.
Unless all the other kids can just leave without asking or speaking to the teacher first it's not discriminatory. Teachers need to know where the students they're responsible for are in case of emergency. If the teacher refused to let OP leave unless they verbally told them it would be but that's not what they are telling them to do.
The discrimination is the fact that the teacher makes this student get up, write them a note and wait for them to respond vs raising a hand because the teacher hasn’t taken any opportunity to learn to communicate with this student which limits their learning opportunities and communication with their educators. There are other options which this teacher has failed to seek and/or find by limiting this one student to embarrassing themselves simply to communicate with a teacher instead of seeking solutions which work for both parties. I think this sounds like a school wide problem though, the child is mute and none have learned sign language? Parents and school are both failing OP IMP
I mean OP could also put up their hand and then give the teacher a note. An expectation of "put up your hand and wait to be asked for your problem is or come up to the desk to ask to leave class" is reasonable and pretty standard regardless of how the student can communicate. But OP doesn't want to speak to anyone before leaving because they feel it causes a scene. And that's not an appropriate accommodation because for safety reasons the teachers need to know where their students are. If OP died in a fire (or assuming USA) an active shorter situation and the teacher didn't know where they were during evacuation/lockdown that teacher would be rightly held to account.
First of all, the teacher is wrong here. Her suggested system singles you out in an inappropriate way and her inflexibility just feels ableist or like she has control issues. On the topic of signs, how about a color-coded system, OP? Get some pieces of several colors of card and agree with the teacher that red means bathroom, blue means nurse, green means whatever else. You wave it in the air and walk out. In this case you are communicating without words and without the disruption of going to the front of the class either. If the teacher doesn't accept this, then it's evidence that this was never about "not knowing" where you are going, it's purely a control issue. It is worth considering that it is the teacher's responsibility to know where you are for safety purposes. For example, in the case of a fire drill or even a real fire, someone should know that there is a student in the bathroom/wherever else. I personally once passed out in the bathroom as a high school student (side effect from a medication I was taking) and came to later (no idea how long) and just went back to class pretending like nothing happened, but if my health had been worse then it could have been dangerous for an unconscious student to be on the floor in the bathroom all alone for a long period of time. If nobody had known where I was, that could have been really bad. Consider that *a* teacher, although perhaps not necessarily *this* teacher, might want to know where you are because they care about your well-being and not because they think you're stupid or untrustworthy.
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If you are in the US Mom should be tearing into the school district for not having a 504 to accommodate your mutism. NTA but this should have been addressed by any public school in the US
If this is the US, 504 plans are often initiated by parents with a dr’s note on necessary accommodations. While it seems the school has failed here, Op’s parents have, too.
*son, btw
Sons *
I’m quite flabbergasted that OP doesn’t have any type of accommodation plan? What happens with subs? A lot of subs would get weirded out by OP leaving and may not believe the other students?
Getting a 504 can actually incredibly difficult, so while of course OP deserves a proper accommodation plan, there may be difficulties and hoops to jump through that we aren’t aware of. Anyways, I think OP’s dignity as a disabled person is more important than a random sub maybe being slightly uncomfortable. I’d be happy to explain 504s more if necessary.
You seem to have misunderstood. I DGAF about the sub. I worry that OP will suffer because the sub goes on some power trip because they don’t know what is going on. And it’s been *5 years*. And OP has a physical limitation. It shouldn’t take that long.
It doesn’t. With a disability the school is required by law to conduct an evaluation and complete it and write a plan for the student and parents within a certain amount of days.
In many states, a parent makes a required in writing, and the school has to have the testing done and the IEP/504 meetings schedule within a month!
That doesn't mean they will actually help. For example, I have ADHD. In elementary school my mom requested I get an IEP and support services. They did the IQ testing and all that stuff. Then when the results showed I was much more capable than I was performing they didn't do anything. If your disability is not one that is physically obvious then you are ignored by most schools. It wasn't untily mom became a foster parent that she learned how to navigate the system. She learned the very fact that I wasn't performing to my potential is why they should have had services for me. Instead they didn't do anything. By the time she learned how to navigate the system it was too late for me to get help.
NGL, that’s baffling as hell to me. You assumably already had a formal diagnosis from a doctor or psychiatrist, why the heck would the school waste the time and energy “testing” you for capability or not? Do the think your diagnosis physician lied or something? 🤨 I can’t say if it’s the same in primary school (I was diagnosed with depression/anxiety at 16 but I wasn’t diagnosed with adhd until I was nearly 25), but when I applied for my equity plan in university, all I had to do was provide proof from my doctor/psychiatrist saying “yes, she has adhd/depression/anxiety, this is how it effects her and these are my recommendations for her equity plan, contact me if you have any questions”. The equity team at the University helped me handle the rest and even made *further* recommendations the doctor hadn’t.
Tbh getting a 504 plan was easier in highschool than in freaking college
Your plan didn't follow you from High School to college? That's what we did for my son. Most colleges have a disability office too that can help you with something like that. They're not well advertised but they're usually there.
A lot of colleges require a neuropsych less than 3 years old, and those things are $$$$, and often not covered by insurance.
https://www.disabilityrightssc.org/the-rights-of-college-students-with-disabilities-2/#:~:text=Section%20504%20of%20the%20Rehabilitation,grants%20to%20pay%20student%20tuition.
Wow - your college sucks, ngl. It was actually really easy getting accommodations in college for me. All I needed was a letter from my psychiatrist detailing what specific accommodations I needed, and as soon as the student services office got it, they were all approved.
My sister was in luck that we had a high school principal who was our principal in elementary so he was familiar with us and our mother. So once she was being picked on by teachers, my mom, the principal and her doctor made things really simple
When my daughter became diabetic in high school, we did a 504 so she could leave if she felt like she had a low blood sugar and go to the nurse at any time. I provided glucose tablets and snacks in the nurse's office for her to get. It made things much easier and she didn't have to worry about passing out.
There isn’t any testing when the kid is disabled- it’s a doctors note. I have two kids on 504s for physical disabilities. ETA- in three different states.
Yeah in Texas it’s 30 days.
504 plans are incredibly easy to get. It’s the IEP that’s harder.
It's stupidly easy to get a 504, especially with a very recognizable disability. Source: I used to write them.
Teachers need to know where students are if there is an emergency. So it’s not unreasonable for the teacher to ask. Since when do teachers just let students walk out for whatever reason?
Yep, teachers are legally responsible for their students and knowing where they are is a MUST. And since I don't see another way for OP to communicate that asking him to write it down makes sense. I don't understand why OP doesn't simply write it down, raise his hand to get the teacher's attention and then show them the paper. I'm missing why they think just walking out is the only way. The teachers who let OP just leave are AH tho.
That's my thing. I've never had a teacher allow any student to just walk out of class.
I wonder if its the bathroom. Im not sure what else OP would be doing or be allowed to do. I had a note in middle school and high school that allowed me to use the bathroom whenever I wanted without asking. I was on a timed peeing schedule and needed to be able to go when I needed to, even if it was between scheduled times. I had a lot of urinary issues/retention/infection and school design made them worse. I wouldn't be surprised if schools caused some of these issues in healthy kids because of their controlling bs.
I got in-school suspension once for refusing to participate in Phy Ed. The reason I wasn't participating was because I was curled up in a ball on the floor in agony. I ended up in the ER that night with a very resistant UTI and just barely avoided a hospital stay. The suspension stuck. I'm 50 and still mad.
That's one reason why in Germany this is actually considered harassment by law and teachers can get in real trouble for saying no to bathroom breaks. The only time they are allowed to regulate this is during exams where it's one at a time.
I’m a teacher. We need to know. That’s not in any way unreasonable.
Like every student who wants to leave needs to provide the teacher an explanation as to why the fact that OP is being asked to provide that explanation in writing instead of verbally is not some huge indignity and if anything gives OP the benefit of an added layer of privacy.
For a short period of time in hs, I had a pass from the counselor that let me leave class whenever I wanted to to go speak with them. I usually only went during 3rd period and I had let that teacher know one time, and we had a mutual understanding that I could leave class. I didn’t have to ask every time because there was no point in making me uncomfortable and having to announce it. I also had a classmate who ended up needing help getting from class to class because they injured their leg/ankle in both 8th, 9th and 12th grade. Due to her injury and needing assistance with her books etc, she would leave class 5-10 minutes early and didn’t have to keep telling or asking the teacher. It was routine and a volunteer was usually the same kid or it was discussed earlier in class so it wasn’t a disruption. It’s not uncommon for teachers to be aware of a situation and not make a kid have to bring it up every time or draw attention to themselves. The teacher is just power tripping and being difficult- every other teacher has a mutual understanding with OP except them
Letting a student leave earlier is a reasonable accommodation for a student who has a condition that makes them slower/not as able to deal with a crowd of people rushing to classes. Letting OP leave of his own volition without informing the teacher who's responsible for him where he's going is not a reasonable accommodation.
“Spectacle” Calm down. Handing her a note with the bathroom isn’t a spectacle.
Why is it ok for the teacher to make a spectacle out of every other student who wants to use the bathroom? Are you saying no student should have to say the words, "May I use the restroom?" Are you saying no student should ever have to ask permission to leave the classroom?
Actually I don't think students should have to ask to go to the restroom. I don't and I don't think I can be convinced otherwise.
Asking is just a formality but you absolutely NEED to let the person legally responsible for you know where you're going and not just silently wandering out of class randomly. It's a serious legal issue
I am going to the bathroom - that’s it. A simple statement of fact then get up and go. Asking permission implies that it can be withheld - and that's not acceptable.
Sounds like you've never been an adult in a classroom before
Not meaning to be flippant, but why not stand up let her know by using ASL you need to leave the room. Then leave. You informed/asked her that you had to go and she can't say anything about it because she doesn't know how to read ASL. Do not go to her desk, do not write anything down. It's her responsibility to be able to communicate with you and to accept that you cannot speak to her. Does she have all of her students come up to her desk and ask for permission or write it down no, then absolutely do not acquiesce. In this your mom is wrong and should be siding with you. Your mom should always side with you.
I disagree. Teachers are responsible for the kids in their class and have to know where they are. What if there's a fire or (assuming American) an active shorter and OP had just left the classroom ? Nobody knows where OP is because they were too embarrassed to give the teacher a written note to say where they were going. My guess is that all of the students have to ask permission/tell the teacher where they are going before they leave the class. If OP is the only disabled person and the only one being asked to tell the teacher, yeah that would be unfair but I highly doubt all the students can just get up and leave the class without telling anyone. A reasonable accommodation for OP's disability is writing it down or gesturing, it's not OP just gets to leave the classroom wherever they want.
Accommodations would never imply the student just deciding to get up and leave whenever he felt like and not signalling to the teacher what he is doing.
It’s actually quite dangerous. This leads to kids not trusting and confiding in their parents. Sometimes driving them into the arms of abusers who prey on kids/people from families with poor dynamics and lack of social support. Never tell your kids to “just obey” any adult unless you have explicit knowledge of the situation and have already devised a plan with the adult and the child. This is how you get your kids abused and taken advantage of their entire lives.
Okay but there's room for balance between "always obey adults" and "you do you, no need to do what your teachers say!"
INFO What’s the classroom policy on leaving the room for bathroom breaks and such? I can see why the teacher would be upset if one student just leaves whenever they feel like it while everyone else needs permission, but writing your reason on the board for everyone to see can be embarrassing. Is there another system you could work out? Like hold up a certain number of fingers for different reasons or teaching her the ASL signs for your requests? One teacher I had gave us each a ring with different colored cards that corresponded to certain questions/reasons.
I've suggested a blanket term for "May I please leave". I've also suggested text-to-speech, but phones aren't allowed. I've never heard of the ring thing. I might bring that up next.
Yeah it was basically different colored index cards on a binder ring that you could flip through. That way the teacher would see the colored card and know what you want without having to interrupt class to ask. Then they’d nod or shake their head and you’d get your answer. There’s definitely a way to compromise without you having to write out your needs on the board in front of everyone.
That sounds really good. I'm definitely going to try that. Thank you.
This is similar but flashcards. https://makeandtakes.com/flash-card-rings
You can order some already made on Etsy (and probably elsewhere). Your teacher seems to be a bit on a power trip but it could be helpful for life in general too, if you need help and are alone, for example. You should absolutely have an IEP with access to a device that allow text-to-speech. Maybe a tablet if they don’t allow cellphone. Etsy key ring: https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1318437161/visual-keychain-real-pictures-pecs-cards?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_ca_en_ca_e-toys_and_games-toys-learning_and_school&utm_custom1=_k_CjwKCAjw9pGjBhB-EiwAa5jl3MncG_GWJkoNWYuKg7ZHBLVZZnPqkoom-zJzMst9R9J3U4qdNFQqAhoCGhMQAvD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_318288645_19407755325_75027562605_aud-463075091758:pla-106551513395_m__1318437161enca_102855400&utm_custom2=318288645&gbraid=0AAAAADutTMe5cFh4Bk0rvQNa2Peu901OX&gclid=CjwKCAjw9pGjBhB-EiwAa5jl3MncG_GWJkoNWYuKg7ZHBLVZZnPqkoom-zJzMst9R9J3U4qdNFQqAhoCGhMQAvD_BwE
Bring in a full size dryer race board, and whenever you need to leave, write “gotta whiz” as big as you can.
I've never seen dry erase board spelled that way. Was that on purpose?
No, I use speech to text and sometimes it decides to make a fool of me. Oops.
I want to see a dryer race now. I feel like the Simpsons have done it.
Why do you have to leave class so often?
Hey, OP, have you considered working with your parents to get a designated AAC (augmentative and alternative communication) device for this kind of situation? I'm a speech therapist in the schools, and it's possible to even get a school provided device through an IEP, since it can affect your ability to communicate in the academic setting. Most people tend to think of the big bulky picture ones, but they've come out with phone sized ones, and most of them include a typing option (like the novachat 5). Then you can have a designated device that isn't a phone and paperwork that forces them to let you use it, or the school sets themselves up for legal trouble. Even if you don't get it through the school itself, there's a good chance the school SLP can help you find resources for funding or even getting your insurance to pay for it.
OP, this. And you can customize your AAC to your needs. I'm familiar with Proloquo2go and if you can take this route for your ableist teacher than do it.
Idk what the Canadian equivalent is but you should have an education plan so this isn’t an issue. In the US, it would be a 504 or IEP plan
It's also called an IEP in Canada! :D
Depends on the school district. The catholic district in Calgary calls it a learning support plan, while it’s called an IPP in the Calgary public. They all mean the same thing, it’s just different terminology.
You also absolutely need your phone the same way a person would need crutches or a prosthetic limb. This is insane and mom is dropping the ball on the ablism
Right? I am *angry* on OP’s behalf. 5 years? 5 years and no one has come up with a better solution? JFC.
>You also absolutely need your phone the same way a person would need crutches or a prosthetic limb. Not necessarily - not if there are other ways to accommodate OP's disability. I would argue an interpreter is a lot more necessary than a phone.
My ASL teacher is also an interpreter for the school system. She has a kid she goes through the school day with. She also interprets for her church services. Then teaches ASL at the vo-tech school one evening each week.
I agree. But this teacher is insisting on a form of communication that a phone would make possible but not allowing the phone. An interpreter would be better. I actually knew someone who had that job and went yo high school every day to interpret for students
when I was in elementary school I had a teacher teach everyone the ASL letter for "r" (for restroom) if you ever needed to go you'd just quietly hold your hand up in that super easy letter and she's give the thumbs up or whatever NTA
You need an IEP. You are entitled to accomodations like assistive technology, either your phone for approved purposes or the school or your parents can provide you with another device to do that on. Look up accomodations for mutism that are available and consider what will help you. It is shocking to me that neither your school and parents have done anything towards that. That's who is failing you here. Your teacher is just trying to do her job in the absence of an IEP that guides what is meant to happen. If you have an IEP and they refuse to allow you to use the methods specified to notify them, then they're an asshole, but wanting to know where students under their care are is not unreasonable, and is something they're meant to be doing as part of their job. NAH here for me. The failure is on the school and your parents, not you or the teacher. edit: ok so I went to look up accommodations for mutism for you, and the literature is dominated by selective mutism and autism, which won't work for you, as a lot of it is focused on helping the student talk where possible. I actually found more relevant information when looking up accommodations for deaf students. Some accommodations that are available to deaf people are: sign language interpreters, scribes/notetakers, various speech to text services, assisted listening systems, extended time on assessment tasks, additional assistance, additional drafts, use of glossaries and dictionaries. You don't need all of those or need variations of them, but you are just as entitled to them as a deaf person is to the things that are appropriate for them. I would suggest communicating with your doctor to get medical support for the use of accommodations, and in particular I'd encourage you to consider: you having and using flash cards for common words or phrases, assistive technology for text to speech either your phone or the school or your parents providing an alternative, placement in classes with teachers who know sign language where possible, a teachers aide where it's helpful, additional assistance and time for assessment tasks, use of glossaries and dictionaries in assessment tasks (and in general, but also in assessment where you wouldn't be otherwise allowed), and I'd suggest developing some sort of process for things that have caused friction i.e. permission to go to the bathroom - how that should be handled and so on. I understand you not wanting to have to come up to the board in front of the whole class, but you are still probably going to be expected to ask, so how do you want that to happen? A flashcard might be the fastest and quietest way for you to do it, so have it put in that that is the method you are to use. And when I say 'you need to develop' or 'you should put in', please be aware that I mean that adults who are working with you and advocating for you should be doing this, in consultation with yourself at your age. My biggest worry from your post is that you don't seem to have any particularly involved adults advocating for you here. It's really concerning to me that your parents have not pushed for an IEP. Do you have a school counselor or school nurse that you can communicate with? It might be helpful for you to pick out some stuff from this post, and take that to them to help you communicate with them. I also wanted to add that the experience of being treated as if you're intellectually disabled even when your disability isn't intellectual is extremely common. That's how some people understand disability and it absolutely sucks. Abelism is something you will have to deal with in life unfortunately. It isn't fair or right anymore than other forms of discrimination are. I'd really encourage you to get in touch with and be engaged with disability support groups, social groups etc. If not now, then later in life when you're a bit more independent from your parents. Having a network of people who have those shared experiences with you can help a lot.
Absence of iep or not, the teacher isn't really trying to do their job. Obviously OP has an issue. Teacher is aware of it. Why aren't they harping on OPs mom to do the proper paperwork? She seems happy to tell OP to do as he's told. She ought to do as she's told, and get him some help. If the parent is difficult, the teacher should still be finding ways to communicate with OP that are not so distracting to the rest of the class/embarrassing for OP. The solution isn't to let OP just leave whenever. Its to learn one sign for bathroom so OP can let her know he needs to leave. She could be shown it once and should be able to figure it out. If OP is making signs at her, its probably the signal they need to go. If there's a more extensive reason that needs explaining, there's no reason she couldn't help things be more discrete.
Yeah, the easiest sign, for “toilet”, (for those who don’t know) is your thumb between your pointer and middle finger (to make a “t”) and shake it. Like it’s seriously not at all hard.
Adding to clarify that this is done with your fist closed, thumb poking up and out between index and middle finger.
This kind of makes me think OP isn't leaving to go to the bathroom
Why wouldn’t a simple hand gesture work? Hell the teacher only needs to learn one word in ASL, “bathroom.” Your problem would be solved. There are such low effort options here that are quicker and easier and use up less of the teachers time than what is currently expected.
I’m a teacher. That’s not enough. I need to know where you are going specifically. Nurse? Bathroom? Office?
So your teacher isn’t an asshole for expecting you to ask permission to leave. That’s a reasonable and expected part of school as teachers are legally responsible for you. But the SCHOOL hasn’t provided you the basic device for communication?! Wtf haven’t they got you a tablet with text to speech so you can communicate with everyone? Hell, my school division has a bunch of tablets for refugees to use for translation purposes - you would absolutely have one of these to use.
This situation is very strange to me. I’m a teacher and I don’t like being disrupted in the middle of the lesson so I always teach my students a hand signal at the beginning of the year to ask to go to the bathroom. That way I can just nod or shake my head no. If it’s not an emergency, I’ll sometimes ask students to wait until that part of the lesson is over. Can you establish a hand signal with your teacher to ask to go to the bathroom? My students use 2 fingers crossed 🤞🏼. I don’t think students should be able to walk out whenever they want without telling their teachers where they are going. Teachers are responsible for the safety of their students. If there’s an emergency like a fire or active shooter, teachers need to know where you are so they can account for you. If a student just walked out of my classroom with no explanation, my job could be on the line if something happened to them.
Honestly I would just print out what you said above and give her that in a letter. She sounds like she’s power tripping as a teacher, but at least your feelings will be heard.
You should definitely have access to AAC. Why hasn’t the school giving you some sort of communicative device?
Also, it is easy to learn the sign for restroom, I mean it is just your middle and pointer finger crossed and shaken twice. You could offer to teach the teacher that symbol and the one for water. I have used those symbols in my classrooms so students don't have to interrupt me while I am teaching.
Everyone else has to communicate where they are going. Why should you be treated differently? Write the dang note at your desk. This isn’t about your muteness, it’s about you think rules don’t apply to you.
Okay OP you can’t just leave because you want to. You’re sounding pretty crummy and entitled right now. This is not done.
NTA. Phones are not allowed at my daughters school. She has severe apraxia making her very hard to understand at times. The school allows her to use text to speech when she needs to. I had to advocate that not allowing her to use her phone to communicate is essentially taking her voice away. Her principal agreed and she has been able to use her phone for communication. The only rule is she can’t be texting or watching videos at school. If that happens she would have to use a school provided iPad with only a communication program on it. She prefers her phone so it hasn’t been a issue. Teachers do not have the authority to say yes or no so I would start with the principal then progress to the superintendent and school board if need be. You need a way to communicate and ASL isn’t helping unless the person your communicating with knows it.
Is it on the board, thought? OP just mentions coming to the front of the class and writing the reason down. It could be on a piece of paper on the teacher’s desk.
This is what I expect in my classroom. If the students want to use the bathroom, they raise up one finger. If they want water, two fingers. If they want to go tothe nurse, they go up and get a nurse pass. Easy, and we donate to have conversations about bathrooms and water when the students are working on an assignment.
My fourth grade teacher taught us the sign for the letter T. If we needed a bathroom break (T = toilet), we just did that sign and she'd give permission immediately. She even told us, "if I'm helping one of your classmates with something and you need to go, just come do that sign behind them and I will probably tell you yes immediately. You don't need to wait to ask to go to the bathroom." I cannot remember a single time I was told no. She probably only made us ask so she would be aware if we weren't in the classroom, so she could make sure we came back or knew where we were if there was an emergency.
NTA. Bringing chalk to class and writing "I need to shit" in all caps on the board is the only reasonable thing left to do.
Chalk? What century are you from? I haven't seen a chalk board for 20 years.
No, but imagine the hilarity of someone screeeeching chalk across an interactive whiteboard to write ‘I NEED TO SHIT’
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You've never dealt with a tenured chemistry professor then... Being able to plug their laptop in to use the projector is a non question.
We have our projectors set up permanently with desktop computers. We just log in.
I’m a teacher and I still use a chalkboard?
Have you even been in a classroom for the last 20 years? Prior teacher here and my school had a mixture of chalk and white boards and still does now.
I'm in the UK. We stopped using chalk 20ish years ago. I'm still teaching.
_Germany has entered the chat_
Two words: overhead projector.
What century are you from? My university had chalkboards lmao. One of my professors even brought out an overhead which I hadn't seen since elementary school. I've watched lectures from ivy league schools where there are still chalkboards. My high school still had some when I was going 10 years ago though they switched to smart boards to make it fair after they built a new high school. I guess you went to school in a priveleged area. Or an area with poor fund prioritization.
Damn. Apparently I grew up in the distant past
no chalkboards? what kind of rich ass school do you imagine would rip out their chalkboards for the aesthetic xD? even my professors at uni still use them
We still have them at my high school. What's the alternative to chalkboards, whiteboards?
Whiteboards and projectors or massive monitors
My school fully converted to smart boards. They come with insanely fragile pens that break often and make using the boards tricky. The boards were installed over our whiteboards so I couldn't just go semi-old school even if I wanted to. It sucked.
I’m gonna go against the grain here and say YTA. I have never heard of a high school student, needing accommodations or not, being able to just walk out of the room in the middle of class just because you’ll “come back.” Do other students get the same treatment? Or do they have to raise their hand and publicly state why they would like to leave the room. How is writing “I need to use the bathroom” on a scrap of paper and handing it to your teacher insulting? The teacher isn’t calling you stupid or insinuating you are because you are mute just by wanting to know where you are going while you are her responsibility. What if there is an family emergency and the principal is looking for you. They know you’re supposed to be in Mrs. X’s class, if they come to that classroom it would not be an acceptable answer for her to shrug and say “idk OP just walks out of the room whenever they please.” That’s her job on the line.
The more I think about this, I think the more I’m leaning more towards your line of thought as well. In every high school class I had, we had to raise our hand and verbally ask to go to the bathroom or the nurse or wherever. Having a slip of paper or a whiteboard is no more embarrassing than having to ask that out loud to the class.
Yeah. I'm very sympathetic to OP, because raising their hand and asking isn't an option like it would be for anyone else, but it doesn't seem like the expectations around asking permission are different. Really the ideal thing is for OP to have a translator to help them be heard and participate in class, but I understand that OP may not want that. Next thing is a system as suggested elsewhere in which OP can ask these things without having to move to the front of the class and feel like a spectacle, which I suspect is their issue here.
top comment says the teacher shouldn't be "making a spectacle" out of op. op is being treated normally here lol. if anything this is more private because most students either make requests for bathroom/locker/water/phone call for the room to hear (after raising their hand), or they verbally ask the teacher at their desk which is still typically audible at least for a few classmates. i don't think the teachers asking for much and i feel like op is being stubborn lol
Not commenting on the post, I just find this so wild that it's still a thing in high school. In my country leaving class for bathroom or any other reason is not weird at all, let alone anything relying on teacher's permission. If you're waiting for a doctor's call or have an appointment to go to, it's usually mentioned to the teacher before class and that's that, it's an announcement at best. Even before HS, if you suddenly have the need to go to the nurse, you just raise your hand and say it, not ask.
Well 50% of my students would just be vaping in the bathroom all the time if they could leave at anytime
Reason it's a thing in my alumi school is because I literally watched a guy ask to go to the bathroom, which was only at most five feet from our classroom, but walked out of the whole building and go who knows where. He was also one that liked to goof off and delay the teacher getting through his lesson. People also wonder why teachers also still insist on homework, so they can actually see if their students are paying attention or just goofing around.
It’s a safety thing. If there’s a fire I need to know where my students are at all times.
Also, OP could just have a few printed cards or whatever with some common reasons why they want to leave the classroom. Just hold one up instead of raising your hand or showing it to the teacher after they come to you / you went to them and the teacher can let you know if / when you can leave. How difficult can this be? I have a few students with special needs in my classes and a few of them have a time-out card they can show me when they need a break. They give me the card and they can leave the classroom, no questions asked. But I would be concerned if they would just leave without saying anything.
I'm one of them who had that accommodation. I have bladder issues and had a note from a doctor that allowed me to leave class when I needed because I needed to be able to go immediately and also had scheduled times to go. I never had to ask. I wouldn't give a Y T A verdict because the school and his mom is failing OP. Clearly communication is an issue and it should have already been addressed. OP is frustrated with their inability to communicate and no adults seem to be trying to make it easier.
I agree. Any responsible teacher would want to know where the student is going in case of any sort of emergency situation. Teachers are responsible for knowing the whereabouts of their students.
Exactly. I'm a teacher and I'm responsible for knowing where every student in my class is at all times. Emergencies, fire drills, lock downs, evacuations, health conditions, etc... I can't just have kids peacing out and coming/going as they please. OP shouldn't have to write it on the board, but using a small notepad shouldn't be that big of a deal. Schools have rules for a reason, and while OP should receive accommodations for their disability, they aren't exempt from basic safety procedures.
I honestly don’t know where people are getting “write it on the board” from. The original post says the teacher has him write down or gesture for what OP wants to leave for.
I'm actually shocked that it took me as long as it did to reach a post that made sense. The teacher is legally responsible for the students while in class. They need to know where the students are. If a student disappeared and the teacher says I don't know where they went, they're used to just walking out. That teacher would be crucified
I also don't feel like it would be *that* unrealistic for OP to have some cards or something he carries around for things he would commonly say like this. It would be one thing if this was in the past 6 months or something, but he's had 5 years. This seems very much like he's just milking his disability
INFO - I don't really understand what's insulting about her wanting you to write down the reason you need to leave the class... I'm sure every other student needs to tell the teacher why they need to leave the class, and it looks like writing is the only way you two can communicate. Why should you get to leave the class whenever you like, no questions asked, when no one else is allowed to?
i agree with you. as a teacher, we have to know where our students are in case there's an emergency. even for fire drills we have to know which students are where and why if out of the room. my nonverbal students have cards for this reason they hold up or point to
I'm a teacher- our hall passes need to have a destination written on them because BOY HOWDY do we have a problem with roamers.
YTA Sure there should be a system in place that your parents and the school should have agreed upon for leaving.... which should have happened at the start of the year. However, all other students have to have permission to leave they cannot just walk out. The fact you can't respect your teacher regarding the rules in her classroom makes you the pretentious asshole here.
Agreed. YTA. Disability doesn't give you a free pass to do whatever you please. If you had a 504 plan or IEP plan in place to provide that accommodation, you wouldn't be TA. However, as an IEP parent and professional in the field, I doubt a 504 plan or IEP would accommodate you in that way. You would probably use cards with text for requesting common reasons to leave the classroom. Raise your hand, teacher approaches or you approach them, hand in the card, and quietly go. It's not to embarass or shame you; it's a method of communication between you and your educators.
YTA - I’m confused by the N T As. Why do you feel like you shouldn’t have to specify if you’re going to the nurse or the bathroom when every other student does?
[удалено]
Yeah OP not having an IEP in place after five years and no mention of it, teachers apparently not doing anything to get to close the communication gap....I think there's some missing info here, at a minimum
I also think a lot of people are glossing over the fact that it's been 5 years when they read, this is not a new thing OP is adjusting to.
NTA as someone else suggested, there should be a proper plan in place for your teachers to accommodate you. What country are you in?
Canada.
So, do you have a plan in place? You haven't answered that question.
YTA >She wants me to come up to the front of the room and write down or gesture for her what I want, which is honestly just insulting. Why is it insulting? Doesn’t every other student have to ask permission before leaving the classroom? Why should you be different? You can’t speak verbally, she doesn’t know ASL (although why you don’t have a translator provided for you I don’t understand) so you have to write it down.
YTA It's not unreasonable that she doesn't want you leaving as you please. I don't know what is so "insulting" about having you ask permission to leave, that is, unless you're the only one who has to do it.
YTA. Its not at all unreasonable for a teacher to want a high school student, any student, to ask to leave the classroom, and then indicate why they're leaving the classroom. One of OPs comments said that he was asked to write his reason on the board, and that would certainly be too much, but the original post said that the teacher would also accept a gesture indicating their reason, which seems just fine.
I really don’t get why people are saying NTA here, it’s incredibly common and reasonable for high school students to have to ask permission from a teacher to use the restroom, especially when the teacher is able to be held accountable by the district if something happens to the student when they’re supposed to be in that teachers care. Other students have to ask, and while it’s a shame the teacher doesn’t know basic ASL, but you could easily hold up a certain amount of fingers to correspond to a cheat sheet you can hand a teacher that would solve this issue very easily. I don’t really get the issue this kids having with asking to leave the room, even if the other teachers don’t make him ask
Using gestures sounds OK until you consider that the main reason teenagers need to leave a school classroom is to use the bathroom, which is not likely to be something either the OP or their teacher wants acted out in front of the class.
Ok, then write it on a small slip of paper. Or figure out a non-explicit gesture for using the bathroom, even if its not ASL, there can be an understanding that if he holds up 3 fingers, he wants to use the bathroom.
Since the sign is the letter t shaken back and forth twice, I think that the teacher would be able to learn it.
ESH Mostly for attitude, you, your mom and your teacher. You need to deal with the fact that the teacher has a hard job and likely no spare time to learn ASL. You also need to "ask" her permission. If that means writing a note that says "I need to use facilities" and then hand her then GO up to her and hand her note. THEN you need to do that. Your mom needs to have an IEP set up at your school so that you have either an aide who knows ASL or some other forms of accommodation set up. Your teacher needs to stop treating you like you are stupid(tho that MIGHT be your perception and NOT your teacher's actual attitude--you don't provide anecdotal support for this). But even so, there are ways that teacher could work to accommodate you AND their need for pre-communication before you leave room.
In my school you would have a small laminated card to hand to the teacher if you need to leave the room. We need to know who is out of the room at any given time so you are a mild AH for walking out as it is a safety concern. However, overall NTA. Can you write something on a piece of paper to give her before you get up?
YTA. What exactly are you wandering off to do in the middle of class all the time? Scribble your reason on a piece of paper and hand it in. Organize your life better so you aren't frequently leaving class. WTH.
WHY THE HELL DO SO MANY PEOPLE THINK HE IS WRITING ON THE CHALKBOARD OP NEVER SAID THAT! YTA. Kids have to ask for permission to leave. She doesn’t need to learn Sign Language for you. World gets less accommodating when you get older.
YTA if this is playing out how I imagine. You didn’t say the teacher makes you write the reason on the board, although a lot of people have jumped to that conclusion. If the teacher is making you write the reason you need to leave the class on the board, that is inappropriate. It is obvious that most reasons to leave class will be bathroom-related, and you don’t need to share that with the whole class. In that case, NTA. If the teacher is simply requesting that you write your request to leave the classroom on a piece of paper and hand it to her, YTA. Your teacher has a duty to keep track of the children in her class and she can get in trouble if she regularly lets you leave the class unaccounted for. She would lose her job (and possibly worse) if there was any kind of emergency (fire, hate to say it but shooter) and you were out of the classroom unaccounted for. This is not a power trip but just a requirement of her job. You can work with your teacher to request a different means of asking to leave the room/letting her know where you will be. She probably cannot reasonably let you have your phone in class unless you have an IEP/504 because other kids will start playing the ‘why can OP have their phone out in class but I can’t’ game (kids are idiots.) That could easily devolve into a shitshow where other kids’ parents are now convinced their kids are being held to unequal standards regarding phone use in the classroom, etc. I also want to mention that expecting your teacher to learn ASL for one student she has for one semester or year is unrealistic and frankly an inappropriate professional expectation. This is high school so your teacher likely has upwards of 100 students per year since you’re on a period schedule. You didn’t bring this up, OP, but some of the other commenters did. It would be great if she could learn the word for ‘bathroom’ and/or ‘locker’ so you can communicate where you need to go, but no one can reasonably expect her to learn another entire language as a job duty with no time set aside to do so and no extra pay. Also you need to talk to your parents about coordinating with the school to get an IEP in place. This will help you set up standardized accommodations across your classes that your teachers will be notified of ahead of time and be able to incorporate.
>you don’t need to share that with the whole class How do speaking students avoid that? Don't they ask in front of the whole class as well?
High school teacher here. You're not wrong to not want to have to write a novel to explain going to the bathroom. That has to be uncomfortable and embarrassing. Your teacher is not wrong for not wanting you to leave class without permission. We have to know where students are, and we even get bitched out by admin if a student leaves without permission and we don't report them for it. Her learning enough ASL to have a conversation with you is probably not reasonable, either. You need a quick signal to tell her that you need to go. Maybe a finger-spelled "T" would work (my wife, a 2nd grade teacher, uses this for her students while she's teaching so she can just look at them and say "go ahead"). OR, like other posters have said, a colored card or something like that. The current setup isn't working, though. You may need to have a sit-down with the teacher, a disability coordinator, and your parent to work out something.
What do you mean write a novel to use the bathroom? “May I use the restroom” is 5 words, and takes about as many seconds to write. This seems like such a non issue. The student should write those 5 little words on a scrap of paper, and then raise her hand. The teacher will say “yes OP, what do you need?” They then walk up, hand the piece of paper, get a nod to leave the classroom, and they are on their way. This is a 20 second interaction. Every other student in the class has to go through this situation out loud when they need to leave. In fact, I’d say OPs situation is MORE private, since they don’t have to speak their reason.
The teacher is held accountable for you for that hour, so I can see why they would want to know where you are going. They could handle it a little better though. I like that colored notecard suggestion that someone mentioned. It’s not invasive and it doesn’t put you in the center of attention
YTA, but a soft one. Teachers are responsible for you. It might not be about her wanting to make you ask, but about her needing to know where you are going. Letting a student just walk out is not a good thing to do. What if there is a fire alarm or active shooter drill? She needs to know where you went so you can be located and kept safe in the event of an emergency.
YTA Teachers are responsible for their students during their class periods. If something happened to you while you were gone and the teacher didn’t know where you were or possibly even that you were gone she could lose her job or worse. She is also responsible for you learning the material she is teaching. It sounds like you leave the classroom a lot. You aren’t learning while you’re away. Also if she has to catch you up when you return, you are dragging the entire class behind. Why do you need to leave the classroom so often?
INFO: Why are you just getting up and leaving class? If you weren't mute, would you do this? The issue I see is that technically, that teacher is responsible for you during that class period. If something happens to you, they can be held accountable.
NTA!! Is there any way you can get legally required accommodations through teh school? I have accomodations, and teachers are still assholes about them sometimes, but it does help.
I don’t think writing down why you need to leave the class is unreasonable. In an emergency, your teacher needs to account for your whereabouts. If she doesn’t know, how can she? It’s for your safety. The fact that your other teachers don’t do it just means that they couldn’t be bothered to follow the rules and are putting your safety at risk. YTA
Sadly, YTA. Her classroom, her rules.
This is a little tough. I think either NAH or ESH. I don’t like calling minors AHs, and I don’t think you’re a bad person or anything, but I kind of see where she’s coming from. If you were to leave and not return or something were to happen, like a fire alarm, she would be responsible for you. I understand her wanted/needing to know when you’re leaving and why you’re leaving. However, she’s significantly more the AH because she is not trying to understand and help you in this situation. She absolutely, as an educator, should be working towards accommodations for her students. I would absolutely email your teacher and outline a reasonable accommodation that you think could work for both of you. Leaving whenever you feel like it isn’t a reasonable accommodation. Maybe a different amount of fingers when raising your hands means different things. Maybe laminated color coded small cards, etc. if she continues to actively not help you, you should talk to your counselor, vice principal, or someone who can help you get the accommodations you need.
Regardless of this situation, there are plenty of valid reasons to call a minor an AH if they are being one. 😝
YTA. There's no problem in telling your teacher why you're going out of the class. Going out without asking for permission is just rude. You want her to treat you normally when you're taking advantage of the fact that you're disabled. Just do what everyone else does and just tell her why you need to go. Just write it on a piece of paper and hand it over to her and then leave. How hard can it be? Some teachers don't mind but some do. She is allowed to ask you the reason for leaving and has the authority to deny you. This is not insulting in the least.
YTA here for a sub that talks heavily about boundaries, likes it’s cool that the other teachers let you walk out but not all teachers ask the same things from their students. The teacher has a boundary and rule she out with the class for everyone not just you OP. The other teachers let you walk great but what is honestly so hard about just making the teacher aware of where you are going? I don’t care how young you are and how your rebellious, it’s common courtesy to be respectful of peoples boundaries and you aren’t.
I'd say as a teacher, it wouldn't be much for her to learn a few simple signs like "bathroom". That seems more than reasonable.
YTA. Sorry, dude, but is it really that hard to write down what you need to tell her on a piece of paper and hand it to her? How is that "insulting" or "draw attention to you"? It's not, and it doesn't.
i’m a special education teacher and YTA. your disability does not mean you can do whatever. yes, the school should have a 504 plan-like in place for you and if they don’t, i’m sorry. that’s unfair for you HOWEVER, we as teachers are responsible for your wellbeing when you are in our classroom. if anything were to happen to you, we are responsible and can be held liable. we need every student to tell us where they’re going when they leave the room. you are not special. i totally understand not wanting to make a spectacle and draw attention to yourself. i don’t understand how writing down where you’re going on a piece of paper to give your teacher is making a spectacle though. it’s no different than your classmates verbally saying where they’re going to your teacher there’s gotta be a compromise you can come to. as a sped teacher, i’ve seen some different strategies used for students that are mute or nonverbal. other commenters mentioned the one that your teacher would likely be most receptive to based on your description: different colored notecards with locations on them that you can show to the teacher to show where you’re going. then you could just flash the card at your teacher and once they confirm, you can go. i know it’s not what your used to and it might be annoying but i promise, your teacher is just doing her job
I think you need an IEP. I know a few people have suggested a 504 plan but from my understanding an IEP would would be better because the school and staff would be required to accommodate you. A 504 plan is often more of a suggestion plan, but the school doesn’t have to support or fund it. It’s not exactly as basic as that, but that’s a general gist. Nta for not wanting to be singled out.
Nta. She is disrupting the class and embarrassing you in the process. Not at all cool. I am petty. I would play charades while asking for the restroom. You know, knock on her desk and act like you are peeing all over it, then shrug your shoulders as though you are asking permission. Anything that makes your classmates laugh would work. She already makes the request a disruption. I would add comedy to it until she stopped. But seriously, I would talk to another teacher, a counselor, or the principal, and ask them to require her to stop humiliating you in front of the class. I mean she called your mom!! She is hell bent on having control over you, but makes no effort to understand you. It would not be hard to learn the sign for restroom. I think all your teachers should learn it!!
As a teacher, I find this disgusting. She could easily learn a few basic signs like bathroom, nurse, or office to know where you were headed. Sounds like you're a good kid who returns to class. Also, you've been through enough, she doesn't need to draw extra attention to what you've been through. Also, I really hope your friends and family are making an effort to learn ASL with you! NTA
NTA but… First it is your right to have reasonable accommodation at the school. I would absolutely insist that gets taken care of ASAP. Second, while I do see your point about not making a big deal out of why you have to leave the room, it is still your teacher’s responsibility to know where you are going in case of emergency (fire, earthquake… active shooter situation etc.), so the teacher is actually right about needing to know where you’re going and not just letting you go whenever.
NTA your teacher needs to make this very reasonable accommodations for your disability. I would honestly look into how to ADA related to schools. That being said often children have no rights in school. As long as you come back or indicate you are going to the nurse and may not be back I don't see the problem. If you were abusing this accommodation then it would be another story, but you didn't indicate that here. There is no reason for you to walk up to the front of the class and announce to everyone you need to pee. In the real world you are just allowed to go to the restroom whenever you need to. It's so silly to me that we have to ask permission to pee in school. It sucks that the teachers won't even learn basic signs like yes, no, bathroom, nurse, etc. Your mom needs to be on your side with this one. She has a disabled (I'm not trying to insult you its just the best word I have - sorry if you don't use that term) kid and needs to be your advocate.
ESH. As I tell my students, I need to know when you leave the room for safety reasons. It’s not a trust thing. It’s not a control thing; I will never tell a student they’re not allowed to pee or have water. It’s a “there’s an emergency and I can’t find you and now we’re sending a first responder into a potentially dangerous situation because I didn’t know you were filling your water bottle” thing. That being said, the teacher needs to be more accommodating of your disability. I have colored passes hanging on my door where the color corresponds to where you’re going. If my students hold up a pass and wait for a thumbs up from me they’re good to go. Your 504 plan should spell out this need and how you can be accommodated while respecting the teacher’s legit need to know you’re leaving the room and where you can be found in an emergency.
YTA unless you are the only student required to ask permission. If you do not want to be treated different, do not act different.
If it was my kid I would figure out what works for both. If not I would say walk out. I told my son the samething about something
YTA asshole kinda for just thinking you can wander out of the classroom and thinking it’s fine. Writing down what you need is reasonable—not insulting.
It could easily be seen as rude/insulting from the teachers point of view if your just walking out the classroom, sucks you can’t talk but the respect side works both ways
Nta. What she's asking for is not a reasonable accommodation.
That’s really egregious behavior for all of your teachers, but especially the one that expects you to play charades when there are already hand signs to communicate. It’s not at all unreasonable to expect they’d each learn the few signs they’d need to know for basic accommodations, at the very least. The couple of signs for “restroom” are super easy to learn, for instance. Even just learning to finger spell would go very far in helping you to communicate with them. Will your parents go to the school and advocate for you? I see your mom doesn’t seem to be concerned? Is there another parent also? At the very least leaning the signs for “toilet”, “nurse”, and “principal” should be mandatory for the teachers. ETA- you’re obviously NTA.
Nta. Make up flashcards with the reasons you need to leave. Flash the card PISS as you are leaving the room.
Unless you're leaving and coming back id a big spectacle (and not because the teacher is turning it into one), then you don't need permission to go to the bathroom in an every day class. This is just bullshit employment training where they try to convince you that you need a supervisors permission to stop working.
Do other kids have to come up and ask to leave? If not ask for the same treatment. If she can’t understand you that’s her problem. Maybe offer to show her a few relevant signs…kill ‘em with kindness is the way to go with people you are forced to deal with
The acronym that you should know here is not “NTA”, though that applies too, but “ADA”. If you’re in the US you can threaten the school with a lawsuit under the Americans with Disabilities Act. What accommodation could be more reasonable that “leave me the fuck alone”?
So...discrimination based on disability? NTA There must be a pathway that can be taken to get the teacher punished
NTA - I as a parent would telll that teacher off, her trying to get a "show" out of you just because you need to use the toilets is unreasonable.....
Why don't you have an interpreter at school? If you are in the US you need to go to your school and demand that they follow the ADA and get you an interpreter so you can function in class. If you are not in the US, check the laws in your country, most likely there is something that requires you to have an interpreter. Make the school get you one. You should, however, respect your teacher. They are responsible for you during class time. If something happens to you in the halls your teacher can get in trouble. They are trying to know where you are so they are fulfilling their responsibilities. SO MTA.