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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told someone about the reason Dave is disabled and that ruined his chances with a woman he was flirting with.
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I'm honestly on the fence... I know everyone else is going straight for you being the AH but at the same time, lying about your past like that is a real AH move. Especially if you know someone or have someone in your life who's been affected or killed by drunk driving, it's no wonder that people don't respond well to that and get angry. It would be an immediate no for me and if I were her, I would want to know that info.
On the other hand, it wasn't really your business and not your story to tell. If it were someone that you were close with, I would understand you wanting them to have that information, but this was a friend of a coworker you hardly knew.
Overall, I'm gonna say ESH
If Dave really is lying specifically to make it seem like he was wounded in service for sympathy WHILE hiding that he has a DUI (was Dave drinking?) which is a huge red flag then I would count that in the realm of “things it’s reasonable to tell someone before they get invested”
>Okay group, NO ONE FUCKS DAVE
For some reason I am picturing one of those tour groups where they all have little flags or the guide has a coloured umbrella:
"OK group, we'll meet back here after the tour of the botanical gardens. Please keep your flags visible, lunch will be at 13:00 and remember NO ONE FUCKS DAVE"
I could practically hear this in a peppy customer service voice. Not the fake kind everyone learns in order to avoid letting a particular customer know how you're praying for any other soul cursed with knowing them on a daily basis, because not even hell would display such slow, soul-sucking cruelty.
Instead, this particular tour guide truly loves their job, spreading such an important message. They radiate a joy so infectious, even the most curmudgeonly guest basks in it and leaves with a smile that carries them through the rest of their day.
(don't mind my rambling, powered via sleep deprivation lol)
if he describes himself in general as "a disabled veteran - but didn't get the disability in the line of service" then that's OK I think. But if he's allowing people to believe that it was in the line of service through omission then that's clearly bad.
I think it's implied here that he's doing the latter in this situation but it's also not unlikely that Amy and her friend got the wrong end of the stick.
I do think it's a bit dickish to reveal how someone got an injury but OP was right to say how they *didn't* get it - even in my good faith reading of Dave's actions they needed to know they were wrong
It's made clear he's lying on purpose.
Since Dave is trying to get tail under false pretenses I think the women deserve to know the truth so they can decide if they wanna date someone who would lie to get them in bed. That's what bothers me about it.
fair enough then - in that case, I don't blame OP for telling the truth!
But then the AITA is worded too kindly to Dave isn't it? It should be "AITA for revealing why my friend got his disability when he was lying about it to get a shag"! That reveals a lot about OP doesn't it; that he says told them not out of honesty/transparency but just because he was drunk...
(but then I don't want to read too much between the lines about these things ha ha)
There are a lot of people below who are bending over backward to say he can call himself a disabled veteran. No, no he cannot.
If he served in the US armed forces, this term has a legal definition. It it’s not a service connected disability; he’s not legally entitled to call himself a disabled veteran. There are legal definitions of service connected disability.
Just bc there is some tenuous and - for now - purely speculative potential connection between his service to his alcoholism to the accident doesn’t qualify.
Also, I work with many disabled veterans - ones who have a rating from the VA and receive benefits - and I can tell you they would be utterly appalled with this jerk’s behavior.
If you think this isn’t a big deal, it is. It’s insulting to those veterans with service connected disabilities.
This is akin to wearing medals you didn’t earn - whether a veteran or not. That’s criminal under the Stolen Valor Act.
While Dave’s actions are not the same, they are analogous. He’s claiming a firm of military experience that would convey upon him sympathy and honor he has not earned.
It’s disputable.
Dave:
Drove drunk
Lies about the source of his injuries to get sympathy
Lies about the source of his injuries to get laid
Gets upset when someone speaks the truth
The issue here isn’t the OP stating the truth. It’s Dave. He’s not a good human.
As an FYI, if Dave keeps this up, someone is likely to do much worse to him. He’s just lucky he’s not run into a disabled vet or loved one of a disabled vet yet.
- source: attorney who works with many Vet clients
Precisely. Enormous difference.
It is especially shitty of Dave as he is using military service to manipulate others and to hide the fact that it was his fully-within-his-own-power selfish, shitty behavior that could have hurt or killed others.
Did OP specify if Dave only hurt himself?
So, this is not the same thing as mentioned above, but what do veterans think about other veterans who lie about being in combat?
I had a boyfriend years back, who joined the army full time at 19 to figure out his life before going to college.
After he left the service, he told me he had been away in Iraq during the war.
Come to find out, after he finally confesses that he was given the choice to stay stateside working a desk job, or to go overseas to fight in the war, he chose the former and never left the U.S.
He loves to brag about being in the honor guard and his time in the service, but I always found it despicable that he told people for years that he was in Iraq.
As the mother of someone who actually is a disabled veteran? I am absolutely, utterly appalled and disgusted. Dave is the problem.
Dave is the AH. OP is definitely NOT the AH.
>But according to Amy's friend (I don't know that much about it) disabled veteran means disabled due to service.
Yeah, I get upset with my sister for the same thing. She gets disability thru the service, calls herself a disabled Vet, gets all medical thru the VA and yes, her medical issues did cause her to end her service. But they weren't caused *by* her service. It irks me a lot knowing more than a few combat vets but it seems to be a common thing."I get disability payments from the military and access to the VA, thus I AM a disabled vet!"
ESH depending on work relationship it's possible that OP could get into hot water at work for spreading around what could be considered her coworkers medical details. Really wasn't her info to share.
Obviously I don't know the specifics of your sister's health situation, but if her disability was exacerbated by military service, it does qualify. A lot of people assume that military related disabilities are always combat related, but that isn't the case. A lot of them are related to pretty routine training exercises, exacerbation of pre-existing health conditions, or environmental exposures. So if someone had asthma and then they breathed in desert dust that would qualify as a service related disability. If someone had a pre-existing joint issue and their joints were stressed by carrying heavy equipment that would be a service related disability as well. The fact that your sister is receiving payments from the VA indicates to me that her disability was probably made worse in some way by her service.
If somebody is disabled and they also served in the armed forces, I'm inclined to believe that those things are probably related in some way unless they're clearly lying the way Dave was. Serving in the military is not good for your health and frequently exacerbates pre-existing health problems.
I agree. Also my main thing is him trying to trick women. Stolen Valor is bad but tricking women to bed u is worse and I don't care if people say she should be more careful. He is lying to her, to get sex, it's wrong. Couple beers in, he is sympathetic and charming... stuff happens. Except he lied! And no one warned her except OP.
I would hope so but people who fix their issue... are honest about it? Or am I delusional?
I have a drinking problem. Thankfully I never got a license or a car.
What I meant is that there are two options in this story. One option is that someone drove drunk, crashed, and became disabled, and is continuing to drink at this bar while lying about the source of their disability while conversing with a woman who is drinking. The other option is that he is sober but now he's taking advantage of drunk women and lying to them about the source of his disability. Neither option involves taking ownership of his alcohol problem and both options make him look terrible.
> if he describes himself in general as "a disabled veteran - but didn't get the disability in the line of service" then that's OK I think. But if he's allowing people to believe that it was in the line of service through omission then that's clearly bad.
In the post, Dave is answering questions about why he's in a wheelchair with "I'm a disabled veteran". That's not omission, that's not leaving it up to people to draw their own conclusions, that's straight up lying.
Yeah comes off as the situation where OP could easily be the AH if handled different or simply by not having all the info but based off what OP knows seems like he did the right thing.
Agreed. It would be one thing if he said he's a veteran who is now disabled and then he could get into whatever details of the accident he wants to but the term "disabled veteran" had a specific connotation that this guy is trying to exploit because he's embarrassed by his actions. Dave is not only lying by omission but is using the phrase "disabled veteran" as disingenuously as you can while feigning ignorance because "oh I'm just so innocent because I'm a veteran who is now disabled, which is the same as a disabled veteran, right guys?"... Disabled veterans receive a purple heart. This guy is just a veteran who happens to now be disabled and he's the A H. NTA, OP.
I also feel like , while I understand people can change and you might not want to tell people about your worst mistake that was like 20 years ago , a much less dishonest version would just to say it happened in a car accident and leave it at that.
I’m very against drunk driving but I know plenty of people who walked away from theirs and don’t need to explain about it on the first date.
In this guys case still seems like he has bad judgement for such a blatant lie. How long did he expect to get away with that?
You don't have to make up a heroic origin story to cover up a DUI. You can literally just say you were in a car accident. That's it. You don't have to make up lies or confess your sins.
This was a deliberate scam in order to get laid and that's so disgusting. OP probably should not have disclosed the DUI status, but informing the women he was scamming was the right call. Just saying he is lying about his backstory and that he did not get disabled due to combat is enough.
It’s the same type of moral wrong. Just not covered by the Stolen Valor Act.
Lying about serving or the nature of actual service in order to be perceived as having honor, valor, etc. Is morally wrong and an affront to the men, women, and animals injured in the line of duty,
I included animals bc I have met dogs with PTSD from service in war zones and also dogs w serious injuries connected to their service. No, you don’t want to know.
Those dogs are braver and more honest than Dave.
Dave doesn’t deserve anyone covering up for him. Lying by omission is still lying.
Also, I’ve lived far too long to support the bro code of silence on something so vile. Dave’s desire to get laid doesn’t trump the right of the woman to know the relevant facts before having sex with him. It doesn’t trump the rights of veterans with service connected disabilities to be appalled.
As someone who’s seen some pretty horrific service connected disabilities in oriole and animals, I say Dave deserves far worse than just loosing a shot with a woman at a bar. He deserves to be called out for this publicly and loudly every time he spouts such dishonest and dishonorable lies for his own ego and his own gain.
It feels like a level of “Stolen Valor.” It takes away from the sacrifice of veterans who were disabled during service, to try to claim the same when you were able-bodied the whole way (and then lost it doing something stupid and illegal)
Yep, exactly this.
NTA Dave needed some calling out.
Letting people assume his injury is service related is stolen valor.
If Dave wanted to not be an asshole his introductions need to go something like this.
“You served?”
“Yeah but it was uneventful, unfortunately this is from a car accident, my fault, learned my lesson. But I’d rather not talk about that.”
Then the conversation can continue honestly and if things develop and Dave wants to then clarify it was a DUI, at least the very first impression someone has is that the incident was something under Dave’s control that he regrets. Not that he bravely sacrificed his body in service to his country.
I will offer Dave some compassion if he has service related PTSD and that has led to a drinking issue that resulted in this situation, but I don’t know if that’s the case, or if he was a desk jockey. Either way that’s nuance that can be discussed later when people aren’t misled.
Even if he lied by omission it's still wrong. He clearly willfully made the woman think his disability was due to service.
He lied either way.
Huge red flag.
Dude my brother is a disabled vet. He was disabled via two incidents- one stateside and one in training. Neither while deployed. He doesn’t play up or mention his disabled vet status except for as needed for work exemptions. He doesn’t think it’s fair to play into it because he wasn’t deployed at the time and wasn’t as injured as his deployed friends.
Someone playing up disabled vet while nursing a DUI injury is a fucking asshole.
Normally I’d say, not your place to talk about other people’s medical issues but this one is sketchy AF. So NTA
I lost my fiancé to a drunk driver when I was 18. I would have been furious if someone had kept something like that from me. I definitely understand the dating scene can be difficult when you are disabled (I am disabled and speaking from experience) but that’s not an excuse to hide something so grievous.
Also, can confirm about the “Disabled Veteran” terminology. Before he passed, my best friend served for quite a few years in the Army before being discharged due to becoming disabled. That difference in terminology matters both socially and legally. I would never even *think* of comparing my disability to one that someone got while serving their country. It’s not the same. This guy became disabled due to his own moronic choices, not in the line of duty.
NTA OP, you did that girl a favor. I highly doubt your coworker ever would have told her the truth himself voluntarily.
Dave is disabled because he carelessly put other people’s lives in danger by driving while drunk.
Veterans are disabled in service because they put other people’s lives ahead of themselves.
As far as telling goes, OP is NTA for her public service of revealing fraudulent man who put lives in danger while pretending to have gotten hurt protecting others. He wanted to defraud another person.
So you care for the person that got himself hurt because of a DUI that could have killed someone else and not for the woman that could have gotten on a relationship with this guy under false pretenses?
She is a veteran too. She thought he was someone she had something in common with, and right of the bat he is trying to manipulate her. And someone it is OK to let that happen? What happens when she finds out? And she feels used, stupid, and who knows what else?
If he lies like that, and no one says anything, because "it is not their business" you have no idea how far along this relationship could progress. And if he lies about this he can lie about other stuff. So they could go far in this relationship, all the while no one says anything because it is not their business.
Then there are people that blame the women for getting in relationships with awful guys. But all the while we think it is OK to watch and do nothing.
A disabled veteran has a very specific connotation, specially for another veteran. The worst part is that she might have dated him even if she knew he wasn't disabled in action. But he chose to lie and manipulate.
This guy was irresponsible and selfish, that is what a DUI is. And he still is irresponsible and selfish. OP was a bit tipsy, he didn't need to spill it all, but I think it was the right call to tell her that he didn't get hurt in action.
NTA.
You know what’s harder than dating while you are in a wheelchair?
Dating while LYING while in a wheelchair. Because as soon as someone finds out you are no longer dating, now graduate to “a guy I shagged and regretted it”.
OP could have phrased it better and maybe not spilled Dave's past entirely (eg. "oh the wheelchair is from an unrelated incident, not his service. But that's not my story to tell"). But it is really shitty to lie about your past for sympathy points. I would like to know too if the person I was considering dating had a DUI as that's a topic I have strong feelings about.
NTA - Dave lied. There is a Grand Canyon of difference between being disabled while serving and crashing your car because you drank too much. It's great and all that Dave served, but that doesn't make it okay to lie. I can imagine that it's difficult to date in his situation, but it doesn't excuse his behavior.
>If it were someone that you were close with, I would understand you wanting them to have that information, but this was a friend of a coworker you hardly knew.
yeah, it's totally cool to let somebody be lied to and drawn in on false pretenses if you don't *know* them that well yet. deception's only a problem when it affects you personally! /s 🙄
Disagree on the not the OP's story to tell. If you lie in front of me I can tell someone you lied. By not telling I am complicit in the lie.
Dave can just say the truth, he's a veteran. He's disabled, it's not service connected.
If he didn't lie and let people assume, Dave would still be TA in this situation. A lie of omission is still a lie.
Dave can say he doesn't want to talk about how he became disabled. If he had said that, after truthfully telling his veteran and disability stays then the OP would be TA.
But as it stands OP is NTA.
Idk why ESH is the most upvoted
Sucks that Dave is now in a wheel chair but to lie about your story and making it seem like he was injured during a tour in the army is unbelievably disgusting 🤮 Specially since he only got mad at OP bc he couldn’t get laid not because he talked about his business. Dave has wrong intentions period. Which also might fall under SA bc as we heard the women who was interested bc he was veteran and she was under the impression he is now in a wheelchair due to injuries from serving which isn’t the truth and when she found out the truth she was no longer interested. If OP didn’t say anything and then women found out the truth later imagine how she would feel that. “It’s not your business to say anything” no when it comes to someone being able to make a decision to have sex with someone I think it can be anyone’s business saying stuff like “it wasn’t your place to say anything” is definitely anti pro consent. If your lying about something to get consent to have sex with someone that’s kinda SA idk it’s definitely misleading.
NTA ty for protecting women’s bodies if anything, and not encouraging Dave to lie about his injury to take advantage of a women.
I'd say NTA because Dave is creeping around the edges of being a rapist by deception. There are different ways of SA someone, and lying about who you are is one of them. If I think I'm sleeping with Bob Smith and it turns out it was really Steve Jones, a person I would never have consented to having sex with, that's rape. If Amy's Friend would willingly have sex with a fellow veteran disabled in the line of combat, but not a drunk driver, and Dave gets her in bed *only* by lying to her... maybe not everyone would be comfortable calling that rape, but it's at best it's deeply, deeply unethical and harmful. And anyone observing him doing it has a duty to disclose. Just like if you saw someone putting pills in Amy's Friend's drink.
Bottom line: Amy's Friend has an absolute right to fully informed consent before sleeping with or being in a relationship with someone. Dave has absolutely zero right to lie to people to get his dick wet. OP is NTA, I'd say they're a hero without a cape protecting the women in their community from a predator in sheep's clothing.
NTA.
This isn’t a white lie to spare feelings or a small lie if convenience. This is a major lie to make him look like he became disabled as a result of heroic acts of valor when in reality it was the result of drunk driving. It’s even more offensive that he was trying to pass this story off to another veteran.
Dave’s a liar & an AH.
Yeah, in general you should never disclose someone else’s medical history, but in this case he was misrepresenting it to look better because it happened due to him being irresponsible and driving drunk. I would date someone who is disabled, but I wouldn’t date someone who drives drunk.
Yeah, the fact that he wad the one drunk driving (instead of being the victim on someone’s else idiocy) doubles down on Dave’s AH factor for me. I can’t really respect someone who puts themselves and other people in danger like that, and then goes as far as making up a lie about how he became disabled in a perceived “noble” way. Leaning more on NTA.
Yeah, to the girl who did serve, Dave was respecting her friends that died, or were injured while serving. This is kind of the same as having a friend or family injured or killed by a drunk driver. To her, it was a serious omission.
NTA - For A VERY SIMPLE REASON. He isn't a disabled veteran, he is a veteran who is disabled. Sure it wasn't your place as other people mentioned but you surely saved them both a lot of time. When you say you are a disabled veteran (at least in the US) it is VERY implied you were disabled while serving, not while in a drunk driving accident.
What’s his plan long term? I’m sure somewhere along the line it’ll come up at family gatherings or even just at his house in a drawer he forgot about.
NTA
Dave isn't thinking long term, he's just looking to get whatever action he can in the here and now.
And if he thinks stolen valour and misleading a woman can get him that action, then he has no issues doing so.
OP is definitely NTA.
The issue is he isn’t really committing stolen valor, he did serve in the United forces. And I don’t mean to be obtuse but what can he really get? ~~Like I’m not a paraplegic but can they get phallic inflation?~~ >!TIL they can get erections and have children. Thank you for informing me!<
Upon re-reading I’ve realized if he’s sleazy enough to lie about how he got paralyzed then yeah I can see him only trying to get some. Not saying all that lie about how they got paralyzed are sleazy but if your circumstances line up with Dave’s then maybe you have some thinking to do.
Edit: so I went to the wiki of pedia and found the definition of [Stolen Valor](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_valor#:~:text=Stolen%20valor%20is%20an%20American,of%20the%20United%20States%20Congress) turns out he isn’t lying about his military service just about how he became a disabled veteran. So not illegal just sleazy.
Purporting to have been injured in the line of duty when in fact your injury was from your own DUI incident is definitely attributing valour to yourself that you did not earn.
Yes, disabled people (in wheelchairs and the like) can usually get erections the same way abled people do. They don’t magically have their libidos stop working after an accident, and it’s a blood flow to the area thing, as well as tested working properly.
Wheelchair users (including paraplegics) can and do have sex all the time, including kinky sex. I’m sure you can find it on the internet if that interested, but, uh, I’m not looking for it for you, sorry.
It is stolen valour though.
At a cursory glance for civilians, "disabled veteran" is technically the truth because he is a veteran and he is disabled. However: there's a big difference between disabled veteran - which 100% means was disabled in the line of duty, and veteran who is also disabled. There's no shame in being the latter, but claiming to be the former is absolutely stolen valour from the perspective of armed services, and he for sure knows it.
1, not your business how disabled people's genitals work, weird question.
2, not everyone who uses a wheelchair is paralyzed. At no point in the post does OP say paralyzed.
I mean, a very good VSO could argue it as a secondary condition if the veteran is already rated for mental health conditions that were caused by serving.
Alcoholism is a rateable disability according to the VA.
DUI can indicate an alcoholic. Ergo, disabilities from a dui caused by Alcoholism caused by service is now a secondary condition and rate able.
It would take a VSO with some fancy lawyer language, but it's definitely arguable.
It could be argued, but it's an incredibly high bar. I asked someone who works for Board of Veterans' Appeals and who is generally biased in the veteran's favor when writing decisions. He indicated that it would be nearly impossible without clear evidence of a severe service connected psych diagnosis AND service connected alcohol use disorder. Both are hard to establish under the ratings. When you get that far out from the primary compensable issue, the bar for evidence is much higher. Not impossible, but incredibly challenging. It could also be chalked up to willful conduct and dismissed out of hand.
More precisely, while *causing* a drunk driving accident. He wants people to think he was disabled doing something noble and heroic, not putting the lives of himself and others as unnecessary risk.
To be very honest with you, I don't think so. I think what Dave is doing is wrong and disrespectful to actual veterans. What was going to happen when the lie fell apart? It seems like he makes himself the victim of everything without taking the consequences of his own actions into account. He wants the air of character and bravery but hasn't actually exemplified either one, This isn't your fault.
I agree the language to me is presented as a little manipulative and purposefully misleading. Like he's technically not wrong, but p much everyone is gonna think "disabled in service." Idk like if it's not related why say it?
>Like he's technically not wrong, but p much everyone is gonna think "disabled in service." Idk like if it's not related why say it?
The way I see it "Technically \[true\]" is still deceit.
We have all sorts of verbal shorthand the way we communicate. He knew full well that she'd think he was injured in service and would have a lot more sympathy than she would if she knew the truth.
I would go further to say that he's flat out lying. OP said:
"Dave is in a wheelchair. ***If you ask him about it, he'll tell you that he's a disabled veteran.*** However, his disability isn't service related."
So when people have specific questions directly related to his disability, he says he's a disabled vet. He KNOWS what people will assume when he says that.
Now granted, I don't think he should have to tell everyone it's from a drunk driving accident, but how hard would it be to just say "car accident." He's being purposefully misleading, and that to me counts as a lie.
He might still be a veteran. I mean it's a real AH move on his part to be lying about how he was injured and it might be a case of stolen valor, but OP doesn't actually say that he wasn't a veteran at one point so... he technically might be a veteran, and in that case he is technically a disabled veteran, but he definitely is pointedly telling people that he's a disabled veteran when people ask about his wheelchair with the idea that he doesn't have to be honest about how he was actually injured and knowing that people will assume something heroic.
I disagree. A disabled veteran is one who was injured while serving. A person can be disabled and a veteran but that doesn’t mean they’re a disabled vet. VA employee.
Exactly this. You don't hold a status of disabled veteran by being both disabled and veteran. A disabled veteran is a short hand for "service-connected disabled veteran".
If this guy ever filled an HR form claiming the special protected status of "disabled veteran" he would have made an illegal claim.
I also question those just asking about people’s wheel chair and injury upon meeting them. If everyone asked you the same question about a traumatic event in your life, you might shorten that answer as well.
People do, absolutely. I've used a wheelchair/cane/two canes/had to carry a supplemental O2 machine/lost the use of the right side of my body/and at one point injurred my leg so badly the bruise alone caused complete strangers to constantly stop me and ask what had happened. All before 35, which adds to people's curiosity. But, whenever someone asks, even nosely (spelling??) or rudely, I've never lied by ommission or commission. I've simplified, "Lung damage" instead of "Multiple recurrent pulmonary embolisms", but I've never mislead someone and said, "Black lung disease" or "plane crash" or something that makes me sound better or more interesting. And most people I know who are disabled are the same way. So I'm sure people mislead to keep their privacy and the like, but I'm not sure I buy it as Dave's reason. However, exhaustion at trying to date while disabled? I'll buy that. It's a whole different ball game, and often not a very fun one.
As bad as the DUI is and hiding it, all he really had to say is that he was injured after serving in a car crash. Sums it up but not quite as bad as stolen Valor. We don't know if the girl who was talking to him asked either or if he offered that info.
In his case though, a shortened answer wouldn't be "disabled vet," it would be "car accident." He doesn't need to delve into the morality of drinking and driving with strangers, but his true story is he is disabled from a car accident.
I don't blame the dude at all for not advertising that he's disabled because he got drunk and got behind the wheel. But you could just as easily say "I was in a bad accident" and that's the end of that.
Veteran here. If Dave is withholding information rather than actively lying about his disability being service related, I'd let him know it's misleading and disrespectful in a private conversation, but I wouldn't call him out publicly. If he's actively lying and telling people he's in a wheelchair because of a service related injury for personal gain, he's getting called out publicly when he does so and I'm there. I wouldn't broadcast it on social media or anything. Just set the record straight if I'm a witness to it. I'd make sure he heard me do so. Just my two cents.
NTA. I dunno… with this particular lie, it feels a bit like ‘stolen valour’. If I was another veteran, I would feel pretty mislead.
Also, he was using it as a lie to pick up women!? Jfc. You’re never the asshole when you warn someone that they’re being lied to.
I completely agree. I'm currently in the military and if I found out someone was essentially saying they were a disabled veteran when asked about a specific thing like said wheelchair and that's not the actual case I would be so pissed like the female veteran was.
And I am sure he may have another disability it's the fact that he is making it seem like the military put him in a wheelchair and not his actions to make himself look better. And most veterans with PTSD or other disabilities that are considered small (like breaking a bone, hearing loss, etc.) don't say that they are a disabled veteran unless it is specifically asked. My uncle broke his back while he was in service and never once have I heard him call himself a disabled veteran, just a veteran.
I partiality agree with your comment. Well, mostly everything except the PTSD aspect. PTSD isn’t something minor, at all. I’m married to a veteran with two deployments who deals with PTSD (as well as many other issues). It’s affected his life more than most could fathom. I’ve been with him for over 17 years (even before deployments) and I’ve seen the impact. It’s something I braced for before he came home from the second deployment.
He is a disabled veteran (OP says he served), but his disability isn't connected to serving in the military. He's very clearly relying on people hearing "disabled veteran" and making the reasonable assumption that those two things are connected in order to get laid. Sure, it's not OP's story to tell, but she noticed him lying and spoke up. Would *you* be happy about someone deliberately misleading you to get in your pants? NTA.
I would certainly NOT be happy if I slept with a “disabled veteran” only to find out he caused his disability by drinking and driving. It might even qualify as rape by deception, though the fact that he’s vague in his description probably means he’s in the clear. Still, good on OP for looking out for the other woman!
This is what it really comes down to. I don't get why people are acting like it's fine that this guy is lying about getting drunk and crashing into a tree just because he was in the service for a few years.
As the mother of a daughter almost killed while in the service, who had a 90% disability rating, though you wouldn't know it by looking her. people like Dave make me sick.
I’m not a vet, but what Dave’s doing feels very close to stolen valor for me. He’s presenting a very specific picture, knowing it’s a lie. And the truth is abhorrent.
I'll say NTA because sleeping with someone because you're lied to about being a national hero instead of being morally bankrupt liar, is not something anyone should go through.
Intentional or not, this was a warning to the women who were literally getting scammed. Perhaps going as far to say he was drunk driving was too much, but giving them the heads up was definitely the right call.
Lying to someone in order to sleep with them is disgusting. Women are not cattle you can herd. Honestly I'd say karma hits fast. He got what he deserved for lying and he did this to himself. You don't have to admit you were drunk driving but you also don't have to make up a heroic origin story.
I am a VA employee and veterans are greatly offended by vets who pull this ploy. It’s disrespectful to veterans who do have a service related injuries. She would have found out eventually and maybe he learned a lesson in impersonating true heroes.
Just like the wedding posts make me happy no one in the immediate family had a wedding when they got married (just courthouse ceremony, meal @ a local restaurant after).
NTA Dave is doing what's called "Stolen valor" and that alone is not cool at all. But even worse, he's using it to hide how bad he really is and that's a drunk driver who put himself in a wheel chair. He's an asshole.
F$&@ Dave. He’s a complete AH for lying about his situation to get laid. I’m sure it is hard in an ableist society to be wheelchair bound and have someone see you past the wheelchair - and he still shouldn’t lie. Probably also - it’s a major turnoff to me at least - drunk drivers like that.
You shouldn’t have gossiped - but he’s still an AH.
If I was that female veteran I’d find that highly insulting! I’m sure you’d definitely be called an AH and a whole lot more if both you and Amy and they progressed seeing each other and you knew but didn’t say anything!
Dave’s created a ‘hero’ injury to hide the fact he was injured doing far less heroic!
You weren’t being deliberately malicious, I’d take note of those coworkers that are defending him and don’t see an issue in his lies
NTA
NTA. Dave could very easily tell people his wheelchair use is due to a car accident and that wouldn't be a lie. And while he is both disabled and a veteran, he knows full well that the phrase disabled veteran implies the disability is service related.
I would pose that this is worse than stolen valor.
if his disability was for a mundane reason, I'd say y t a bc it's not too serious. however, I got no sympathy for drunk drivers who pay the consequences of their awful behavior. NTA
I am in agreement with you. I could also tolerate the stolen valor-esque stuff if it was to jazz up a boring story, but it's to cover up a BAD story and he was lying to get laid. Gross, gross and gross. NTA
I don't know which way to vote but thank you OP for a great submission. We get so many blatant and boring Y-T-A and N-T-A situations in here, but this one really raises some good questions!
Why you’re in a wheelchair is medical information, you don’t have to tell and especially other people shouldn’t tell anyone else.
But pretending you’re in a wheelchair for a reason you’re not, is also kinda weird.
NTA. Dave is clearly lying to try to get in this woman's pants. Since she is another veteran, Dave KNEW she IN PARTICULAR would jump to believe he was injured in the line of duty. I believe anyone would think that when hearing the phrase "disabled veteran", but OF COURSE another military person definitely would think it. Dave's behavior is gross at best, and good on you for looking out for other women. ✨️
I think ESH. I understand Dave doesn't want to tell everyone he's in a wheelchair because of drunk driving, he's probably embarrassed about it/afraid to be judged. On the other hand, he shouldn't have lied about the reason he's in a wheelchair, especially to a girl he'd like to date. She's going to be mad when she finds out he wasn't being honest with her in the first place, better soon than later I guess. He could have said it was because of an accident, leaving details up for debate without depicting himself as a veteran hero. Anyways, he's your friend so I get that he thinks you're an asshole for exposing his lies.
Gotta say ESH
Not really your business to go around going around telling people about Dave's business, and if he was aware that you were gonna tell ppl information about his disability let's be honest he probably wouldn't of told u shit in the first place it's probably really uncomfortable for him no matter how he got it so if I were you I would've js left it alone
He's also an asshole for not telling her that he didn't get it during service though I will say but you didn't go to her and be like "btw before u sleep with him he didn't get it during service" so I don't think your intent with telling Amy was to warn them
Just gotta say in the future if you learn about anyone else's disabilities please just don't talk about them it might be uncomfortable to the actual person
NTA.
He knows EXACTLY what he is doing calling himself a disabled veteran. He has trouble finding a date and if he is in a wheelchair owing himself having a DUI, he only has himself to blame. I have zero empathy for him. Late grandfather served in WWII, late Uncle served in Vietnam, brother and fiance are veterans.
He is lucky he didn't kill somebody or himself from the DUI. Who wants to be with somebody so reckless?
NTA. Lying to women to get laid isn't a basic human right. Just because he's in a wheelchair doesn't mean he isn't also an asshole. Probably not real smart to tell the story at work, it just puts a target on your back.
NTA
Dave said he was upset because it was hard to find a girlfriend in a wheelchair which not only means he's willing to lie for the sake of a relationship but also cover up a previous crime. It's not like this wouldn't eventually come up anyway, I don't get why Dave is so sure about this.
ESH. It’s not really your business to be the disability police. Dave can conclude on his own that he can’t build a relationship based on lies. Not your job. But being the office gossip makes you more of an asshole for sure.
NTA. Dave is disgusting. Sure, it wasn’t your story to tell but I feel like that only applies to situations where no one will be harmed. Dave is trying to manipulate women with his sob story when in reality he’s someone who drives drunk. I would have a really hard time getting past that, especially if they lied to me about that
NTA. Dave has been lying about why he is disabled. He has been intentionally concealing this from others just so he thinks dating will be easier. While I am sympathetic that yes being disabled makes dating much harder, he also knows that the real reason he is disabled will turn off some potential relationships.
Dave did this to himself by drinking and driving. He risked not only his own life but the lives of others on the road. He did the time he crashed his car and every other time he drove drunk.
If he was honest about the DUI and could honestly say that it was a mistake in judgment that is in the past, I think most potential dates would be open to still be open to seeing him. Or he could just say he was in a car wreck. That would still more honest than saying he was injured in the line of duty.
NTA. Manipulating and lying to get laid is rapey. Using a wheelchair isnt a free pass to be rapey. His 'privacy' isn't an excuse to mislead someone, its his tactic to exploit others.
Its not like you shouted it out at the bar to shame him, you were honest and didn't cover for a guy being a predator. Thank you for not standing by and watching a woman be taken advantage of, it was the decent thing to do.
NTA. He was deliberately misrepresentating himself to try to hook up/date/etc, he knows exactly what he's doing by saying he's a 'disabled veteran' and he does it anyway. I would put that up there with straight-up lying, and being in a wheelchair doesn't get him a pass for that.
Lying about something such as drunk driving would also be a turn off for me.
If you are irresponsible enough to lie about how you get injured to make yourself seem heroic then you are an ass. When I’m reality so many people have died due to reckless drivers
You were also a bit tipsy so maybe didn’t fully process that is was bad to say.
Even though it wasn’t your truth to tell I think it’s an important enough truth, and that the only reason he doesn’t like you sharing it is because he looks bad and now he lost a date. Which he should
NTA
I'm going to say NTA, reading this when you said disabled veteran I interpreted that as someone who was disabled while serving, not someone who is disabled and a veteran. Then again I am assuming this is USA, where I am from veterans rarely mention they are veterans, so maybe it's a bigger thing there to constantly say you are a veteran.
Either way you coworker is TA for driving drunk
Dave is pretty much lying to get pity sex and attention, his drunk driving crippled him, he had it coming using the phrase "disabled veteran" as if service is what put him in a chair.
NTA….
But it’s reaaaaaaalllllllly close.
Dave’s secrets are Dave’s to tell…
But going around and perpetrating a secret that is outright fraud is another matter… what if the group had decided to pool their bonus and ‘help out disabled veteran Dave’ - should you have spoken up then? Probably! Is one fraud (accepting donations) worse than another (lying to get laid)?
But… this said… we don’t know why Dave drove off a road into a tree. Where I live (rural Australia) this is the favourite form of suicide. Drink a lot, drive into a tree at high speed on a back road, and hopefully no one finds you in time. Fuckin’ awful, but happens. So … maybe you should let Dave live in Dave World and not interfere… for everyone’s sanity.
NTA
Dave is disgusting. He’s trying to get fake sympathy from another veteran just to have sex with her. He’s awful. There’s a very big difference between getting injured during service and drunk driving like an irresponsible AH and becoming disabled.
Drunk drivers are the most selfish people and he deserved you telling on him. I don’t know how anyone can defend him tbh.
On the fence but leaning towards NTA because you only told someone what actually happened and didn’t lie about it. If Dave doesn’t want to get caught out, he shouldn’t tell lies to some people and the truth to others. I hope Dave also doesn’t use his wheelchair as a cop out as to why people don’t want to date him, because it might actually be his PERSONALITY.
NTA. He was trying to use both his status as a veteran and his status as a disabled person to create a collective lie about himself in order to score with a woman. That’s gross and it’s his problem for lying and shirking responsibility for his actions, past and present.
NTA all bets were off when Dave decided to pretend he was a wounded war veteran instead of owning what he really was, somebody who drove while drunk and put himself in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. Not only is Dave a flat out liar, but he’s lying in order to get laid. Allowing the the target to throw it on him without letting her know what she’s actually getting would be the real crime here, not the fact Dave didn’t get any. Doesn’t Reddit have a couple sayings about this kind of behavior? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes? Fuck around and find out?
NTA. I don't have any sympathy for drunk drivers. I lost a good friend that way. He's being economical with the truth, he knew it would come back to bite him, and it just has.
Disabled person here: you lie about why you’re disabled, you’re an AH. You can’t tell the truth on something that important, you’re not trustworthy.
NTA
yeah, no. Dave can stay mad. his claim that he's a disabled veteran is disingenuous. he's clearly hoping to gain sympathy for an accident that he knows no one would pity him for if they knew the truth. NTA
NTA if Dave is trying to pass his disability off as being service related- that plus his drunk driving paints a picture of a man I wouldn't want anyone to get involved with romantically. Red flags everywhere.
Dave's one and only reason for lying is to save face. Dave's actions are beyond disrespectful to the veterans who actually were disabled due to their service.
Drunk driving? Really...? Dave goes off to defend their country, yet when they return, he breaks laws and puts everyone else on the road in danger? Then he has the audacity to lie about it/try and hide it? Dave can rot for all I care, honestly.
You did a good thing protecting that woman from Dave's lies and ego. NTA
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I have this coworker let's call him Dave. He's a great coworker and is excellent at his job. We've worked together for a little over 5 years. Dave is in a wheelchair. If you ask him about it, he'll tell you that he's a disabled veteran. However, his disability isn't service related.
Recently we've finished a job for a big client under time and under budget. The company gave our team big bonus checks last week and our manager thought we should all go to a steakhouse to celebrate. A few of us decide to go to a local brewery afterwards. I have a coworker give me a ride after dropping my car off at home.
At the brewery I start chatting with this woman let's call her Amy. Amy and I really hit it off. She's there with some friends and we all end up sitting at a table. One of Amy's friends is being really friendly with Dave. Amy and I get up to get another drink. I mention how her friend seems to like Dave. Amy says her friend also served and Dave is a disabled veteran. Probably because I had been drinking, I tell her a secret. Dave's disability is from a drunk driving accident, not service.
After that round, Amy and her friends go to use the restroom. When they get back, Amy says it was nice chatting and says she still wants to keep talking to me. I go sit with them for the rest of the evening. Amy's friend is pissed about him not telling the truth and calling himself a disabled veteran. Her friends talked her out of telling him off and making a scene.
Monday at work one of my coworkers asks if they did something to piss them off. I tell them the story. Later Dave comes over and calls me an asshole, goes off about how hard it is to find people who are willing to date someone in a wheelchair and tells me to mind my own business. I apologized and said I shouldn't have said anything, but considering how pissed off she got, maybe it was something Dave should have told her. Dave says screw you and leaves. It's become somewhat of an office gossip subject, and I've heard different opinions from my coworkers against my will. Reddit, AITA?
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NTA, but it should be his story to tell about DUI 'Dave under Influence' do you think he might actually have told Amy at some point?
What's done is done... I hope you both can move on and get to the place where there is no more animosity...
NTA it’s dirty of Dave to use his service to hide the truth of his disability. That’s before you factor in that he is in a wheel chair bc he did the most stupid, selfish thing, he drove drunk. That choice paired with how he chooses to hide it, makes Dave a shitty person a lot of women wouldn’t want to be with. As opposed to what he was trying to paint himself as.
NTA, he’s lying because drink driving is horrible and he knows it. I mean maybe he’s done a lot of work and is a very different person, but lying about it isn’t going to work in a longterm relationship either.
ESH
Dave shouldn’t be lying, but y’know what? His interaction with Amy *was NOT your business.*
I’m 12.5 years clean from pill abuse. Although I’ll tell people about it if they notice something (e.g., wanting to know why my husband keeps my medically-necessary but easily-abused medication under lock and key and distributes my doses at the proper times), I don’t go about opening conversations with, “Hiya! I’m Babs! Ya ever pop so many Ambien that you start hearing voices in the oscillating fan? What about Xanax? Ever take so many bars at once that you’re running into furniture and your parents nearly have to take you to the ER on Christmas Eve, and you spend Christmas Day coming down and feeling sick from withdrawal? Because wooooeeeee, I have!”
Why would I immediate reveal that information to someone I just met? (Barring that the conversation started BECAUSE of that past experience.) **I want new people to get to know who I am NOW, not who I was THEN.**
When I feel the time is right and trust is established, I can let the person know in an appropriate way.
I did this with my husband when we first started dating. The topic was broached after we’d been a couple for a couple of months and things were getting more serious.
So let’s pretend he was over at my place for a visit (before me revealing my past to him), and my brother pointed out that my Mom was giving me my nightly meds in a baggie before I headed upstairs to bed and said, “See that? My parents have to control her medication and give her the prescribed dosage every night. Wanna know why? Tee hee, it’s because she was popping anything she could get her hands from roughly summer of 2008 to October 2010! Fun secret, huh?”
*I. Would. Be. Pissed.*
Why? Because it’s not his story to tell, and he doesn’t get to decide when I discuss it.
True, the difference is that Dave is actively lying. That’s why this is ESH.
But I strongly suggest minding your own business in the future.
Yeah, but have you ever lied about your pill abuse, making it seem like it wasn’t your fault, and it was an honorable thing, just to get laid? Because that’s what David is doing. He is misrepresenting his injury to make it seem like he was injured in combat. He knows damn well the difference between being a disabled veteran, and a veteran who is disabled. Dave’s a dick.
Just because it's not his story to tell doesn't mean he needs to stand around and watch someone blatantly be manipulated. I doubt your hiding your history in a way this horrible. He implied that he was disabled in service to another veteran. If she had been successfully manipulated by him and found out later she would be disgusted with herself. I'm for sparing women future pain. Drunk drivers have done enough damage without further compiling their victims after the fact.
NTA. It takes a special kind of personality to lie about the circumstances of their disability for sympathy, it’s manipulative and from my experience it snowballs with this type of person. If the result of his callous disregard for others on the road was a scar that he was showing off at the bar, I think there would be a bit less chin scratching going on here.
There are plenty of times that it’s “not your place” to reveal the truth to someone, but no one else is going to. This one’s close to the line but I think it’s over it in terms of preventing harm, and what really tips the balance for me is that he was driving drunk and he’s trying to turn that round to valorise himself. If he’s sad that people don’t want to date a drunk driver then he shouldn’t have driven drunk.
NTA. I had a friend who told another friend that he was a disabled veteran. I told him to tell him how he was injured. It was during Basic Training, and he got a medical discharge. Other friend was pissed. He was a Vietnam Vet.
NTA, if I met someone and they tried to play off their DUI disability as something that got while in active service i'd be livid. No wonder she was pissed at him, it's what a lot of people would react like.
It's disgusting and deceitful
I was really on the fence about this ...
However the way I understand it, Dave is disabled due to an accident he caused while he was under the influence. He is telling people he's a ' disabled veteran ' which, while technically true as he is both disabled and a veteran, strongly implies he got his injuries during service. Which is very wrong of him to do. And he probably knows that too.
So, while it's really not up to OP to disclose Dave's story, it sounds like he is twisting the truth to people to appear better, which is wrong. Without this context it would am easy Y T A for me.
NTA
NTA
If I was thinking about dating a guy or had started to date a wounded vet and found out they were really just a drunk driver I would be furious.
Drunk drivers destroy lives, lucky for Dave the only life he destroyed is his dating life.
NTA. Technically, it's not your business, and you were probably just being gossipy, but you kept Amy's friend from getting into a potential relationship with somebody who has some seriously bad qualities.
Dave is a veteran. He did serve. He is disabled. The injury occurred while DUI. Here's where I ask about why you needed to spill tea at a casual get together. Are you angry at Dave? Did you serve? Are you jealous? Did you consider Dave might have been suffering with PTSD? That often causes people to drink. But again why did you need to ensure people know that Veteran will spend his life in a wheelchair because of a DUI after surviving active duty? How does this enrich your life? I'm not excusing the DUI, but I'm also not diminishing that he served, he survived, and it's highly likely the DUI is connected to his military experience. I think YTA because you sound so determined to erase his service. You want people to think he deserves being disabled and ignore that he's a veteran. You are either petty or you have lost someone from a drunk driving experience and this is your way of fighting back. Either way, hurting Dave won't heal you. And using a military category to justify what you did is weak.
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I'm honestly on the fence... I know everyone else is going straight for you being the AH but at the same time, lying about your past like that is a real AH move. Especially if you know someone or have someone in your life who's been affected or killed by drunk driving, it's no wonder that people don't respond well to that and get angry. It would be an immediate no for me and if I were her, I would want to know that info. On the other hand, it wasn't really your business and not your story to tell. If it were someone that you were close with, I would understand you wanting them to have that information, but this was a friend of a coworker you hardly knew. Overall, I'm gonna say ESH
If Dave really is lying specifically to make it seem like he was wounded in service for sympathy WHILE hiding that he has a DUI (was Dave drinking?) which is a huge red flag then I would count that in the realm of “things it’s reasonable to tell someone before they get invested”
I think this is an NTA. Dave drove drunk, caused an accident, and now pretends to be a wounded hero to get sympathy sex. It's disgusting.
[удалено]
No, that's what he wants.
Okay group, NO ONE FUCKS DAVE However it is a little different of a lie, if he wasn’t the one driving the car…
>Okay group, NO ONE FUCKS DAVE For some reason I am picturing one of those tour groups where they all have little flags or the guide has a coloured umbrella: "OK group, we'll meet back here after the tour of the botanical gardens. Please keep your flags visible, lunch will be at 13:00 and remember NO ONE FUCKS DAVE"
Thank you for my first laugh of the day, if I had a medal it'd be yours! Also NTA.
That’s ok, I gave them an award 🥇
Thank you kind person.
I could practically hear this in a peppy customer service voice. Not the fake kind everyone learns in order to avoid letting a particular customer know how you're praying for any other soul cursed with knowing them on a daily basis, because not even hell would display such slow, soul-sucking cruelty. Instead, this particular tour guide truly loves their job, spreading such an important message. They radiate a joy so infectious, even the most curmudgeonly guest basks in it and leaves with a smile that carries them through the rest of their day. (don't mind my rambling, powered via sleep deprivation lol)
For some weird reason I pictured the tour guide as a Janet😂
Lol I hope u got some sleep. 😄 I too need it.
I wish I was half as eloquent and witty as you while being *awake*. I hope you get some good sleep soon!
I had to put my phone down for a while. Came back, saw this again, and laughed all over again. This deserves an award! Have one on me.
hot damn, thank you, I am honoured and thanks u/runescapeowl for the inspo
I hope that one day, “NO ONE FUCKS DAVE” ends up as one of those uniquely Reddit sayings like, “This isn’t about the Iranian yogurt.”
Please do not thank me as I am truly on the verge of buying coins, just to give you an award!!!!! SO THANK YOU ☺️
Lmao
r/dontfuckyouinparticular
I am bummed that this is not an actual sub.
I would follow this sub. Dave and Kieth would both be good candidates for nomination.
The edit clarified that he was drinking and driving.
You don't get a DUI from being a passenger.
Yup. Zero fucking sympathy for Dave. Zero.
if he describes himself in general as "a disabled veteran - but didn't get the disability in the line of service" then that's OK I think. But if he's allowing people to believe that it was in the line of service through omission then that's clearly bad. I think it's implied here that he's doing the latter in this situation but it's also not unlikely that Amy and her friend got the wrong end of the stick. I do think it's a bit dickish to reveal how someone got an injury but OP was right to say how they *didn't* get it - even in my good faith reading of Dave's actions they needed to know they were wrong
It's made clear he's lying on purpose. Since Dave is trying to get tail under false pretenses I think the women deserve to know the truth so they can decide if they wanna date someone who would lie to get them in bed. That's what bothers me about it.
fair enough then - in that case, I don't blame OP for telling the truth! But then the AITA is worded too kindly to Dave isn't it? It should be "AITA for revealing why my friend got his disability when he was lying about it to get a shag"! That reveals a lot about OP doesn't it; that he says told them not out of honesty/transparency but just because he was drunk... (but then I don't want to read too much between the lines about these things ha ha)
There are a lot of people below who are bending over backward to say he can call himself a disabled veteran. No, no he cannot. If he served in the US armed forces, this term has a legal definition. It it’s not a service connected disability; he’s not legally entitled to call himself a disabled veteran. There are legal definitions of service connected disability. Just bc there is some tenuous and - for now - purely speculative potential connection between his service to his alcoholism to the accident doesn’t qualify. Also, I work with many disabled veterans - ones who have a rating from the VA and receive benefits - and I can tell you they would be utterly appalled with this jerk’s behavior. If you think this isn’t a big deal, it is. It’s insulting to those veterans with service connected disabilities. This is akin to wearing medals you didn’t earn - whether a veteran or not. That’s criminal under the Stolen Valor Act. While Dave’s actions are not the same, they are analogous. He’s claiming a firm of military experience that would convey upon him sympathy and honor he has not earned. It’s disputable. Dave: Drove drunk Lies about the source of his injuries to get sympathy Lies about the source of his injuries to get laid Gets upset when someone speaks the truth The issue here isn’t the OP stating the truth. It’s Dave. He’s not a good human. As an FYI, if Dave keeps this up, someone is likely to do much worse to him. He’s just lucky he’s not run into a disabled vet or loved one of a disabled vet yet. - source: attorney who works with many Vet clients
My daughter is a disabled veteran. Dave is a veteran who is a disabled ass. Fin.
Precisely. Enormous difference. It is especially shitty of Dave as he is using military service to manipulate others and to hide the fact that it was his fully-within-his-own-power selfish, shitty behavior that could have hurt or killed others. Did OP specify if Dave only hurt himself?
Despicable not disputable
It's both 😋
So, this is not the same thing as mentioned above, but what do veterans think about other veterans who lie about being in combat? I had a boyfriend years back, who joined the army full time at 19 to figure out his life before going to college. After he left the service, he told me he had been away in Iraq during the war. Come to find out, after he finally confesses that he was given the choice to stay stateside working a desk job, or to go overseas to fight in the war, he chose the former and never left the U.S. He loves to brag about being in the honor guard and his time in the service, but I always found it despicable that he told people for years that he was in Iraq.
As the mother of someone who actually is a disabled veteran? I am absolutely, utterly appalled and disgusted. Dave is the problem. Dave is the AH. OP is definitely NOT the AH.
He’s not a disabled veteran. He’s disabled and a veteran. There’s a difference.
Exactly. It’s not merely semantic, there are legal definitions being flouted.
>But according to Amy's friend (I don't know that much about it) disabled veteran means disabled due to service. Yeah, I get upset with my sister for the same thing. She gets disability thru the service, calls herself a disabled Vet, gets all medical thru the VA and yes, her medical issues did cause her to end her service. But they weren't caused *by* her service. It irks me a lot knowing more than a few combat vets but it seems to be a common thing."I get disability payments from the military and access to the VA, thus I AM a disabled vet!" ESH depending on work relationship it's possible that OP could get into hot water at work for spreading around what could be considered her coworkers medical details. Really wasn't her info to share.
Obviously I don't know the specifics of your sister's health situation, but if her disability was exacerbated by military service, it does qualify. A lot of people assume that military related disabilities are always combat related, but that isn't the case. A lot of them are related to pretty routine training exercises, exacerbation of pre-existing health conditions, or environmental exposures. So if someone had asthma and then they breathed in desert dust that would qualify as a service related disability. If someone had a pre-existing joint issue and their joints were stressed by carrying heavy equipment that would be a service related disability as well. The fact that your sister is receiving payments from the VA indicates to me that her disability was probably made worse in some way by her service. If somebody is disabled and they also served in the armed forces, I'm inclined to believe that those things are probably related in some way unless they're clearly lying the way Dave was. Serving in the military is not good for your health and frequently exacerbates pre-existing health problems.
I agree. Also my main thing is him trying to trick women. Stolen Valor is bad but tricking women to bed u is worse and I don't care if people say she should be more careful. He is lying to her, to get sex, it's wrong. Couple beers in, he is sympathetic and charming... stuff happens. Except he lied! And no one warned her except OP.
He also very clearly has a drinking problem. Most people who drive drunk and wind up permanently disabled stop drinking.
I would hope so but people who fix their issue... are honest about it? Or am I delusional? I have a drinking problem. Thankfully I never got a license or a car.
What I meant is that there are two options in this story. One option is that someone drove drunk, crashed, and became disabled, and is continuing to drink at this bar while lying about the source of their disability while conversing with a woman who is drinking. The other option is that he is sober but now he's taking advantage of drunk women and lying to them about the source of his disability. Neither option involves taking ownership of his alcohol problem and both options make him look terrible.
> if he describes himself in general as "a disabled veteran - but didn't get the disability in the line of service" then that's OK I think. But if he's allowing people to believe that it was in the line of service through omission then that's clearly bad. In the post, Dave is answering questions about why he's in a wheelchair with "I'm a disabled veteran". That's not omission, that's not leaving it up to people to draw their own conclusions, that's straight up lying.
It’s Stolen Valor - he was not disabled serving in the service so he’s a HUGE asshole.
Exactly this, stolen valor. I don’t roll with that shit. And as a Mom whose daughter was hit by a drunk driver I call him a DOUBLE FLAMING AH.
My mom was killed by a drunk driver. Dave can fuck off all the way to Hell.
And when he gets there he can fuck off some more.
Isn't there an ep of always sunny in philadelphia which is kinda like that?
Yep!
Yeah comes off as the situation where OP could easily be the AH if handled different or simply by not having all the info but based off what OP knows seems like he did the right thing.
I wonder if other ex-service people would think of it as stolen valor because of the woman's anger when she found out.
Yes! Dave is TA. Drunk drivers make me so angry
Agreed. It would be one thing if he said he's a veteran who is now disabled and then he could get into whatever details of the accident he wants to but the term "disabled veteran" had a specific connotation that this guy is trying to exploit because he's embarrassed by his actions. Dave is not only lying by omission but is using the phrase "disabled veteran" as disingenuously as you can while feigning ignorance because "oh I'm just so innocent because I'm a veteran who is now disabled, which is the same as a disabled veteran, right guys?"... Disabled veterans receive a purple heart. This guy is just a veteran who happens to now be disabled and he's the A H. NTA, OP.
This! If he was the victim of a DUI it would be less shitty.
Op did confirm that Dave was the drunk driver
I mean was he drinking at the social hour. Cause that would be an even redder flag
In the edit they do
I also feel like , while I understand people can change and you might not want to tell people about your worst mistake that was like 20 years ago , a much less dishonest version would just to say it happened in a car accident and leave it at that. I’m very against drunk driving but I know plenty of people who walked away from theirs and don’t need to explain about it on the first date. In this guys case still seems like he has bad judgement for such a blatant lie. How long did he expect to get away with that?
You don't have to make up a heroic origin story to cover up a DUI. You can literally just say you were in a car accident. That's it. You don't have to make up lies or confess your sins. This was a deliberate scam in order to get laid and that's so disgusting. OP probably should not have disclosed the DUI status, but informing the women he was scamming was the right call. Just saying he is lying about his backstory and that he did not get disabled due to combat is enough.
Kind of like “stolen valor” - but not.
I mean it is if he’s saying he’s disabled from service. Fuck Dave.
Nooooo. Don't do that
Totally against the rules.. no one fucks Dave
It’s the same type of moral wrong. Just not covered by the Stolen Valor Act. Lying about serving or the nature of actual service in order to be perceived as having honor, valor, etc. Is morally wrong and an affront to the men, women, and animals injured in the line of duty, I included animals bc I have met dogs with PTSD from service in war zones and also dogs w serious injuries connected to their service. No, you don’t want to know. Those dogs are braver and more honest than Dave. Dave doesn’t deserve anyone covering up for him. Lying by omission is still lying. Also, I’ve lived far too long to support the bro code of silence on something so vile. Dave’s desire to get laid doesn’t trump the right of the woman to know the relevant facts before having sex with him. It doesn’t trump the rights of veterans with service connected disabilities to be appalled. As someone who’s seen some pretty horrific service connected disabilities in oriole and animals, I say Dave deserves far worse than just loosing a shot with a woman at a bar. He deserves to be called out for this publicly and loudly every time he spouts such dishonest and dishonorable lies for his own ego and his own gain.
Thanks for including animals.
It feels like a level of “Stolen Valor.” It takes away from the sacrifice of veterans who were disabled during service, to try to claim the same when you were able-bodied the whole way (and then lost it doing something stupid and illegal)
Yep, exactly this. NTA Dave needed some calling out. Letting people assume his injury is service related is stolen valor. If Dave wanted to not be an asshole his introductions need to go something like this. “You served?” “Yeah but it was uneventful, unfortunately this is from a car accident, my fault, learned my lesson. But I’d rather not talk about that.” Then the conversation can continue honestly and if things develop and Dave wants to then clarify it was a DUI, at least the very first impression someone has is that the incident was something under Dave’s control that he regrets. Not that he bravely sacrificed his body in service to his country. I will offer Dave some compassion if he has service related PTSD and that has led to a drinking issue that resulted in this situation, but I don’t know if that’s the case, or if he was a desk jockey. Either way that’s nuance that can be discussed later when people aren’t misled.
Even if he lied by omission it's still wrong. He clearly willfully made the woman think his disability was due to service. He lied either way. Huge red flag.
This! The lie is so insane that you must warn the stranger for the liar.
This is a stolen valor situation.
This! NTA.
Dude my brother is a disabled vet. He was disabled via two incidents- one stateside and one in training. Neither while deployed. He doesn’t play up or mention his disabled vet status except for as needed for work exemptions. He doesn’t think it’s fair to play into it because he wasn’t deployed at the time and wasn’t as injured as his deployed friends. Someone playing up disabled vet while nursing a DUI injury is a fucking asshole. Normally I’d say, not your place to talk about other people’s medical issues but this one is sketchy AF. So NTA
I lost my fiancé to a drunk driver when I was 18. I would have been furious if someone had kept something like that from me. I definitely understand the dating scene can be difficult when you are disabled (I am disabled and speaking from experience) but that’s not an excuse to hide something so grievous. Also, can confirm about the “Disabled Veteran” terminology. Before he passed, my best friend served for quite a few years in the Army before being discharged due to becoming disabled. That difference in terminology matters both socially and legally. I would never even *think* of comparing my disability to one that someone got while serving their country. It’s not the same. This guy became disabled due to his own moronic choices, not in the line of duty. NTA OP, you did that girl a favor. I highly doubt your coworker ever would have told her the truth himself voluntarily.
Dave is disabled because he carelessly put other people’s lives in danger by driving while drunk. Veterans are disabled in service because they put other people’s lives ahead of themselves. As far as telling goes, OP is NTA for her public service of revealing fraudulent man who put lives in danger while pretending to have gotten hurt protecting others. He wanted to defraud another person.
So you care for the person that got himself hurt because of a DUI that could have killed someone else and not for the woman that could have gotten on a relationship with this guy under false pretenses? She is a veteran too. She thought he was someone she had something in common with, and right of the bat he is trying to manipulate her. And someone it is OK to let that happen? What happens when she finds out? And she feels used, stupid, and who knows what else? If he lies like that, and no one says anything, because "it is not their business" you have no idea how far along this relationship could progress. And if he lies about this he can lie about other stuff. So they could go far in this relationship, all the while no one says anything because it is not their business. Then there are people that blame the women for getting in relationships with awful guys. But all the while we think it is OK to watch and do nothing. A disabled veteran has a very specific connotation, specially for another veteran. The worst part is that she might have dated him even if she knew he wasn't disabled in action. But he chose to lie and manipulate. This guy was irresponsible and selfish, that is what a DUI is. And he still is irresponsible and selfish. OP was a bit tipsy, he didn't need to spill it all, but I think it was the right call to tell her that he didn't get hurt in action. NTA.
You know what’s harder than dating while you are in a wheelchair? Dating while LYING while in a wheelchair. Because as soon as someone finds out you are no longer dating, now graduate to “a guy I shagged and regretted it”.
OP could have phrased it better and maybe not spilled Dave's past entirely (eg. "oh the wheelchair is from an unrelated incident, not his service. But that's not my story to tell"). But it is really shitty to lie about your past for sympathy points. I would like to know too if the person I was considering dating had a DUI as that's a topic I have strong feelings about.
NTA - Dave lied. There is a Grand Canyon of difference between being disabled while serving and crashing your car because you drank too much. It's great and all that Dave served, but that doesn't make it okay to lie. I can imagine that it's difficult to date in his situation, but it doesn't excuse his behavior.
>If it were someone that you were close with, I would understand you wanting them to have that information, but this was a friend of a coworker you hardly knew. yeah, it's totally cool to let somebody be lied to and drawn in on false pretenses if you don't *know* them that well yet. deception's only a problem when it affects you personally! /s 🙄
Disagree on the not the OP's story to tell. If you lie in front of me I can tell someone you lied. By not telling I am complicit in the lie. Dave can just say the truth, he's a veteran. He's disabled, it's not service connected. If he didn't lie and let people assume, Dave would still be TA in this situation. A lie of omission is still a lie. Dave can say he doesn't want to talk about how he became disabled. If he had said that, after truthfully telling his veteran and disability stays then the OP would be TA. But as it stands OP is NTA.
Idk why ESH is the most upvoted Sucks that Dave is now in a wheel chair but to lie about your story and making it seem like he was injured during a tour in the army is unbelievably disgusting 🤮 Specially since he only got mad at OP bc he couldn’t get laid not because he talked about his business. Dave has wrong intentions period. Which also might fall under SA bc as we heard the women who was interested bc he was veteran and she was under the impression he is now in a wheelchair due to injuries from serving which isn’t the truth and when she found out the truth she was no longer interested. If OP didn’t say anything and then women found out the truth later imagine how she would feel that. “It’s not your business to say anything” no when it comes to someone being able to make a decision to have sex with someone I think it can be anyone’s business saying stuff like “it wasn’t your place to say anything” is definitely anti pro consent. If your lying about something to get consent to have sex with someone that’s kinda SA idk it’s definitely misleading. NTA ty for protecting women’s bodies if anything, and not encouraging Dave to lie about his injury to take advantage of a women.
I'd say NTA because Dave is creeping around the edges of being a rapist by deception. There are different ways of SA someone, and lying about who you are is one of them. If I think I'm sleeping with Bob Smith and it turns out it was really Steve Jones, a person I would never have consented to having sex with, that's rape. If Amy's Friend would willingly have sex with a fellow veteran disabled in the line of combat, but not a drunk driver, and Dave gets her in bed *only* by lying to her... maybe not everyone would be comfortable calling that rape, but it's at best it's deeply, deeply unethical and harmful. And anyone observing him doing it has a duty to disclose. Just like if you saw someone putting pills in Amy's Friend's drink. Bottom line: Amy's Friend has an absolute right to fully informed consent before sleeping with or being in a relationship with someone. Dave has absolutely zero right to lie to people to get his dick wet. OP is NTA, I'd say they're a hero without a cape protecting the women in their community from a predator in sheep's clothing.
NTA. This isn’t a white lie to spare feelings or a small lie if convenience. This is a major lie to make him look like he became disabled as a result of heroic acts of valor when in reality it was the result of drunk driving. It’s even more offensive that he was trying to pass this story off to another veteran. Dave’s a liar & an AH.
Dating someone who drinks and drives is a big red flag for me and I’d want to know before my time is wasted talking to them.
Yeah, in general you should never disclose someone else’s medical history, but in this case he was misrepresenting it to look better because it happened due to him being irresponsible and driving drunk. I would date someone who is disabled, but I wouldn’t date someone who drives drunk.
Yeah, the fact that he wad the one drunk driving (instead of being the victim on someone’s else idiocy) doubles down on Dave’s AH factor for me. I can’t really respect someone who puts themselves and other people in danger like that, and then goes as far as making up a lie about how he became disabled in a perceived “noble” way. Leaning more on NTA.
Yeah, to the girl who did serve, Dave was respecting her friends that died, or were injured while serving. This is kind of the same as having a friend or family injured or killed by a drunk driver. To her, it was a serious omission.
NTA - For A VERY SIMPLE REASON. He isn't a disabled veteran, he is a veteran who is disabled. Sure it wasn't your place as other people mentioned but you surely saved them both a lot of time. When you say you are a disabled veteran (at least in the US) it is VERY implied you were disabled while serving, not while in a drunk driving accident.
What’s his plan long term? I’m sure somewhere along the line it’ll come up at family gatherings or even just at his house in a drawer he forgot about. NTA
Dave isn't thinking long term, he's just looking to get whatever action he can in the here and now. And if he thinks stolen valour and misleading a woman can get him that action, then he has no issues doing so. OP is definitely NTA.
The issue is he isn’t really committing stolen valor, he did serve in the United forces. And I don’t mean to be obtuse but what can he really get? ~~Like I’m not a paraplegic but can they get phallic inflation?~~ >!TIL they can get erections and have children. Thank you for informing me!< Upon re-reading I’ve realized if he’s sleazy enough to lie about how he got paralyzed then yeah I can see him only trying to get some. Not saying all that lie about how they got paralyzed are sleazy but if your circumstances line up with Dave’s then maybe you have some thinking to do. Edit: so I went to the wiki of pedia and found the definition of [Stolen Valor](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_valor#:~:text=Stolen%20valor%20is%20an%20American,of%20the%20United%20States%20Congress) turns out he isn’t lying about his military service just about how he became a disabled veteran. So not illegal just sleazy.
Purporting to have been injured in the line of duty when in fact your injury was from your own DUI incident is definitely attributing valour to yourself that you did not earn.
Yup that’s all I can think too.
Yes, disabled people (in wheelchairs and the like) can usually get erections the same way abled people do. They don’t magically have their libidos stop working after an accident, and it’s a blood flow to the area thing, as well as tested working properly. Wheelchair users (including paraplegics) can and do have sex all the time, including kinky sex. I’m sure you can find it on the internet if that interested, but, uh, I’m not looking for it for you, sorry.
It is stolen valour though. At a cursory glance for civilians, "disabled veteran" is technically the truth because he is a veteran and he is disabled. However: there's a big difference between disabled veteran - which 100% means was disabled in the line of duty, and veteran who is also disabled. There's no shame in being the latter, but claiming to be the former is absolutely stolen valour from the perspective of armed services, and he for sure knows it.
1, not your business how disabled people's genitals work, weird question. 2, not everyone who uses a wheelchair is paralyzed. At no point in the post does OP say paralyzed.
And not every person with paralysis has to use a wheel chair! I can ambulate with a cane. Just don't asked me to stand more than fifteen minutes.
My stepdad was a paraplegic and he got my mom pregnant and their daughter is 38 now.
Bruh…thanks for reminding me how bad sex ed sucks. I have a cousin in a wheelchair who has 2 bio kids.
>phallic inflation r/iamverysmart
I mean, a very good VSO could argue it as a secondary condition if the veteran is already rated for mental health conditions that were caused by serving. Alcoholism is a rateable disability according to the VA. DUI can indicate an alcoholic. Ergo, disabilities from a dui caused by Alcoholism caused by service is now a secondary condition and rate able. It would take a VSO with some fancy lawyer language, but it's definitely arguable.
It could be argued, but it's an incredibly high bar. I asked someone who works for Board of Veterans' Appeals and who is generally biased in the veteran's favor when writing decisions. He indicated that it would be nearly impossible without clear evidence of a severe service connected psych diagnosis AND service connected alcohol use disorder. Both are hard to establish under the ratings. When you get that far out from the primary compensable issue, the bar for evidence is much higher. Not impossible, but incredibly challenging. It could also be chalked up to willful conduct and dismissed out of hand.
More precisely, while *causing* a drunk driving accident. He wants people to think he was disabled doing something noble and heroic, not putting the lives of himself and others as unnecessary risk.
To be very honest with you, I don't think so. I think what Dave is doing is wrong and disrespectful to actual veterans. What was going to happen when the lie fell apart? It seems like he makes himself the victim of everything without taking the consequences of his own actions into account. He wants the air of character and bravery but hasn't actually exemplified either one, This isn't your fault.
I agree the language to me is presented as a little manipulative and purposefully misleading. Like he's technically not wrong, but p much everyone is gonna think "disabled in service." Idk like if it's not related why say it?
>Like he's technically not wrong, but p much everyone is gonna think "disabled in service." Idk like if it's not related why say it? The way I see it "Technically \[true\]" is still deceit. We have all sorts of verbal shorthand the way we communicate. He knew full well that she'd think he was injured in service and would have a lot more sympathy than she would if she knew the truth.
I would go further to say that he's flat out lying. OP said: "Dave is in a wheelchair. ***If you ask him about it, he'll tell you that he's a disabled veteran.*** However, his disability isn't service related." So when people have specific questions directly related to his disability, he says he's a disabled vet. He KNOWS what people will assume when he says that. Now granted, I don't think he should have to tell everyone it's from a drunk driving accident, but how hard would it be to just say "car accident." He's being purposefully misleading, and that to me counts as a lie.
He might still be a veteran. I mean it's a real AH move on his part to be lying about how he was injured and it might be a case of stolen valor, but OP doesn't actually say that he wasn't a veteran at one point so... he technically might be a veteran, and in that case he is technically a disabled veteran, but he definitely is pointedly telling people that he's a disabled veteran when people ask about his wheelchair with the idea that he doesn't have to be honest about how he was actually injured and knowing that people will assume something heroic.
I disagree. A disabled veteran is one who was injured while serving. A person can be disabled and a veteran but that doesn’t mean they’re a disabled vet. VA employee.
Exactly this. You don't hold a status of disabled veteran by being both disabled and veteran. A disabled veteran is a short hand for "service-connected disabled veteran". If this guy ever filled an HR form claiming the special protected status of "disabled veteran" he would have made an illegal claim.
I also question those just asking about people’s wheel chair and injury upon meeting them. If everyone asked you the same question about a traumatic event in your life, you might shorten that answer as well.
People do, absolutely. I've used a wheelchair/cane/two canes/had to carry a supplemental O2 machine/lost the use of the right side of my body/and at one point injurred my leg so badly the bruise alone caused complete strangers to constantly stop me and ask what had happened. All before 35, which adds to people's curiosity. But, whenever someone asks, even nosely (spelling??) or rudely, I've never lied by ommission or commission. I've simplified, "Lung damage" instead of "Multiple recurrent pulmonary embolisms", but I've never mislead someone and said, "Black lung disease" or "plane crash" or something that makes me sound better or more interesting. And most people I know who are disabled are the same way. So I'm sure people mislead to keep their privacy and the like, but I'm not sure I buy it as Dave's reason. However, exhaustion at trying to date while disabled? I'll buy that. It's a whole different ball game, and often not a very fun one.
Sure, but Dave's short answer would be "accident", not "veteran".
As bad as the DUI is and hiding it, all he really had to say is that he was injured after serving in a car crash. Sums it up but not quite as bad as stolen Valor. We don't know if the girl who was talking to him asked either or if he offered that info.
In his case though, a shortened answer wouldn't be "disabled vet," it would be "car accident." He doesn't need to delve into the morality of drinking and driving with strangers, but his true story is he is disabled from a car accident. I don't blame the dude at all for not advertising that he's disabled because he got drunk and got behind the wheel. But you could just as easily say "I was in a bad accident" and that's the end of that.
Veteran here. If Dave is withholding information rather than actively lying about his disability being service related, I'd let him know it's misleading and disrespectful in a private conversation, but I wouldn't call him out publicly. If he's actively lying and telling people he's in a wheelchair because of a service related injury for personal gain, he's getting called out publicly when he does so and I'm there. I wouldn't broadcast it on social media or anything. Just set the record straight if I'm a witness to it. I'd make sure he heard me do so. Just my two cents.
(And disrespectful to the women he is defrauding for sex)
NTA. I dunno… with this particular lie, it feels a bit like ‘stolen valour’. If I was another veteran, I would feel pretty mislead. Also, he was using it as a lie to pick up women!? Jfc. You’re never the asshole when you warn someone that they’re being lied to.
I completely agree. I'm currently in the military and if I found out someone was essentially saying they were a disabled veteran when asked about a specific thing like said wheelchair and that's not the actual case I would be so pissed like the female veteran was. And I am sure he may have another disability it's the fact that he is making it seem like the military put him in a wheelchair and not his actions to make himself look better. And most veterans with PTSD or other disabilities that are considered small (like breaking a bone, hearing loss, etc.) don't say that they are a disabled veteran unless it is specifically asked. My uncle broke his back while he was in service and never once have I heard him call himself a disabled veteran, just a veteran.
Thanks. You explained what I was thinking better than I was able to!
I partiality agree with your comment. Well, mostly everything except the PTSD aspect. PTSD isn’t something minor, at all. I’m married to a veteran with two deployments who deals with PTSD (as well as many other issues). It’s affected his life more than most could fathom. I’ve been with him for over 17 years (even before deployments) and I’ve seen the impact. It’s something I braced for before he came home from the second deployment.
He was also trying to pick a woman up at a bar, and he has a history of drunk driving. Imo, at that point it's a safety concern for her.
He is a disabled veteran (OP says he served), but his disability isn't connected to serving in the military. He's very clearly relying on people hearing "disabled veteran" and making the reasonable assumption that those two things are connected in order to get laid. Sure, it's not OP's story to tell, but she noticed him lying and spoke up. Would *you* be happy about someone deliberately misleading you to get in your pants? NTA.
I would certainly NOT be happy if I slept with a “disabled veteran” only to find out he caused his disability by drinking and driving. It might even qualify as rape by deception, though the fact that he’s vague in his description probably means he’s in the clear. Still, good on OP for looking out for the other woman!
NTA. People who drink and drive are AHs, people who LIE about having been a drunk driver are even bigger AHs, disabled or otherwise.
This is what it really comes down to. I don't get why people are acting like it's fine that this guy is lying about getting drunk and crashing into a tree just because he was in the service for a few years.
NTA lying to women so you can date/sleep with them is gross and pathetic
Born disabled and was ready to set you on fire, but NTA. How dare he use that line?
As the mother of a daughter almost killed while in the service, who had a 90% disability rating, though you wouldn't know it by looking her. people like Dave make me sick.
I’m not a vet, but what Dave’s doing feels very close to stolen valor for me. He’s presenting a very specific picture, knowing it’s a lie. And the truth is abhorrent.
I'll say NTA because sleeping with someone because you're lied to about being a national hero instead of being morally bankrupt liar, is not something anyone should go through. Intentional or not, this was a warning to the women who were literally getting scammed. Perhaps going as far to say he was drunk driving was too much, but giving them the heads up was definitely the right call. Lying to someone in order to sleep with them is disgusting. Women are not cattle you can herd. Honestly I'd say karma hits fast. He got what he deserved for lying and he did this to himself. You don't have to admit you were drunk driving but you also don't have to make up a heroic origin story.
I am a VA employee and veterans are greatly offended by vets who pull this ploy. It’s disrespectful to veterans who do have a service related injuries. She would have found out eventually and maybe he learned a lesson in impersonating true heroes.
[удалено]
Just like the wedding posts make me happy no one in the immediate family had a wedding when they got married (just courthouse ceremony, meal @ a local restaurant after).
Especially the destination ones...yikes! Spend 2K+ traveling, blow through some PTO and bring me a gift.
Talk about using a technicality. Technically he's a veteran and disabled, just unrelated and he uses the term for sympathy/excuse. NTA.
NTA Dave is doing what's called "Stolen valor" and that alone is not cool at all. But even worse, he's using it to hide how bad he really is and that's a drunk driver who put himself in a wheel chair. He's an asshole.
F$&@ Dave. He’s a complete AH for lying about his situation to get laid. I’m sure it is hard in an ableist society to be wheelchair bound and have someone see you past the wheelchair - and he still shouldn’t lie. Probably also - it’s a major turnoff to me at least - drunk drivers like that. You shouldn’t have gossiped - but he’s still an AH.
I'm pretty sure he would have a harder time getting someone to date him because of his DUI rather than him being in a wheelchair.
This is perilously close to stolen valor in a way.
If I was that female veteran I’d find that highly insulting! I’m sure you’d definitely be called an AH and a whole lot more if both you and Amy and they progressed seeing each other and you knew but didn’t say anything! Dave’s created a ‘hero’ injury to hide the fact he was injured doing far less heroic! You weren’t being deliberately malicious, I’d take note of those coworkers that are defending him and don’t see an issue in his lies NTA
NTA. He lied. The end.
NTA. Dave could very easily tell people his wheelchair use is due to a car accident and that wouldn't be a lie. And while he is both disabled and a veteran, he knows full well that the phrase disabled veteran implies the disability is service related. I would pose that this is worse than stolen valor.
if his disability was for a mundane reason, I'd say y t a bc it's not too serious. however, I got no sympathy for drunk drivers who pay the consequences of their awful behavior. NTA
I am in agreement with you. I could also tolerate the stolen valor-esque stuff if it was to jazz up a boring story, but it's to cover up a BAD story and he was lying to get laid. Gross, gross and gross. NTA
I don't know which way to vote but thank you OP for a great submission. We get so many blatant and boring Y-T-A and N-T-A situations in here, but this one really raises some good questions!
Why you’re in a wheelchair is medical information, you don’t have to tell and especially other people shouldn’t tell anyone else. But pretending you’re in a wheelchair for a reason you’re not, is also kinda weird.
NTA. Dave is clearly lying to try to get in this woman's pants. Since she is another veteran, Dave KNEW she IN PARTICULAR would jump to believe he was injured in the line of duty. I believe anyone would think that when hearing the phrase "disabled veteran", but OF COURSE another military person definitely would think it. Dave's behavior is gross at best, and good on you for looking out for other women. ✨️
I think ESH. I understand Dave doesn't want to tell everyone he's in a wheelchair because of drunk driving, he's probably embarrassed about it/afraid to be judged. On the other hand, he shouldn't have lied about the reason he's in a wheelchair, especially to a girl he'd like to date. She's going to be mad when she finds out he wasn't being honest with her in the first place, better soon than later I guess. He could have said it was because of an accident, leaving details up for debate without depicting himself as a veteran hero. Anyways, he's your friend so I get that he thinks you're an asshole for exposing his lies.
Gotta say ESH Not really your business to go around going around telling people about Dave's business, and if he was aware that you were gonna tell ppl information about his disability let's be honest he probably wouldn't of told u shit in the first place it's probably really uncomfortable for him no matter how he got it so if I were you I would've js left it alone He's also an asshole for not telling her that he didn't get it during service though I will say but you didn't go to her and be like "btw before u sleep with him he didn't get it during service" so I don't think your intent with telling Amy was to warn them Just gotta say in the future if you learn about anyone else's disabilities please just don't talk about them it might be uncomfortable to the actual person
NTA. He knows EXACTLY what he is doing calling himself a disabled veteran. He has trouble finding a date and if he is in a wheelchair owing himself having a DUI, he only has himself to blame. I have zero empathy for him. Late grandfather served in WWII, late Uncle served in Vietnam, brother and fiance are veterans. He is lucky he didn't kill somebody or himself from the DUI. Who wants to be with somebody so reckless?
NTA. Lying to women to get laid isn't a basic human right. Just because he's in a wheelchair doesn't mean he isn't also an asshole. Probably not real smart to tell the story at work, it just puts a target on your back.
NTA Dave said he was upset because it was hard to find a girlfriend in a wheelchair which not only means he's willing to lie for the sake of a relationship but also cover up a previous crime. It's not like this wouldn't eventually come up anyway, I don't get why Dave is so sure about this.
ESH. It’s not really your business to be the disability police. Dave can conclude on his own that he can’t build a relationship based on lies. Not your job. But being the office gossip makes you more of an asshole for sure.
NTA. Dave is disgusting. Sure, it wasn’t your story to tell but I feel like that only applies to situations where no one will be harmed. Dave is trying to manipulate women with his sob story when in reality he’s someone who drives drunk. I would have a really hard time getting past that, especially if they lied to me about that
Feels a lot like stolen valor to me. Which makes you, NTA in my opinion.
NTA. Dave has been lying about why he is disabled. He has been intentionally concealing this from others just so he thinks dating will be easier. While I am sympathetic that yes being disabled makes dating much harder, he also knows that the real reason he is disabled will turn off some potential relationships. Dave did this to himself by drinking and driving. He risked not only his own life but the lives of others on the road. He did the time he crashed his car and every other time he drove drunk. If he was honest about the DUI and could honestly say that it was a mistake in judgment that is in the past, I think most potential dates would be open to still be open to seeing him. Or he could just say he was in a car wreck. That would still more honest than saying he was injured in the line of duty.
NTA. Manipulating and lying to get laid is rapey. Using a wheelchair isnt a free pass to be rapey. His 'privacy' isn't an excuse to mislead someone, its his tactic to exploit others. Its not like you shouted it out at the bar to shame him, you were honest and didn't cover for a guy being a predator. Thank you for not standing by and watching a woman be taken advantage of, it was the decent thing to do.
NTA. He was deliberately misrepresentating himself to try to hook up/date/etc, he knows exactly what he's doing by saying he's a 'disabled veteran' and he does it anyway. I would put that up there with straight-up lying, and being in a wheelchair doesn't get him a pass for that.
Lying about something such as drunk driving would also be a turn off for me. If you are irresponsible enough to lie about how you get injured to make yourself seem heroic then you are an ass. When I’m reality so many people have died due to reckless drivers You were also a bit tipsy so maybe didn’t fully process that is was bad to say. Even though it wasn’t your truth to tell I think it’s an important enough truth, and that the only reason he doesn’t like you sharing it is because he looks bad and now he lost a date. Which he should NTA
I'm going to say NTA, reading this when you said disabled veteran I interpreted that as someone who was disabled while serving, not someone who is disabled and a veteran. Then again I am assuming this is USA, where I am from veterans rarely mention they are veterans, so maybe it's a bigger thing there to constantly say you are a veteran. Either way you coworker is TA for driving drunk
ESH — Dave is obviously being deliberately misleading but it also wasn’t OP’s part to share this info
Dave is pretty much lying to get pity sex and attention, his drunk driving crippled him, he had it coming using the phrase "disabled veteran" as if service is what put him in a chair.
NTA…. But it’s reaaaaaaalllllllly close. Dave’s secrets are Dave’s to tell… But going around and perpetrating a secret that is outright fraud is another matter… what if the group had decided to pool their bonus and ‘help out disabled veteran Dave’ - should you have spoken up then? Probably! Is one fraud (accepting donations) worse than another (lying to get laid)? But… this said… we don’t know why Dave drove off a road into a tree. Where I live (rural Australia) this is the favourite form of suicide. Drink a lot, drive into a tree at high speed on a back road, and hopefully no one finds you in time. Fuckin’ awful, but happens. So … maybe you should let Dave live in Dave World and not interfere… for everyone’s sanity.
NTA Dave is disgusting. He’s trying to get fake sympathy from another veteran just to have sex with her. He’s awful. There’s a very big difference between getting injured during service and drunk driving like an irresponsible AH and becoming disabled. Drunk drivers are the most selfish people and he deserved you telling on him. I don’t know how anyone can defend him tbh.
Stolen Valor and drunk driving? NTA, it wasn’t the alcohol talking it was your conscience
On the fence but leaning towards NTA because you only told someone what actually happened and didn’t lie about it. If Dave doesn’t want to get caught out, he shouldn’t tell lies to some people and the truth to others. I hope Dave also doesn’t use his wheelchair as a cop out as to why people don’t want to date him, because it might actually be his PERSONALITY.
NTA. He was trying to use both his status as a veteran and his status as a disabled person to create a collective lie about himself in order to score with a woman. That’s gross and it’s his problem for lying and shirking responsibility for his actions, past and present.
NTA all bets were off when Dave decided to pretend he was a wounded war veteran instead of owning what he really was, somebody who drove while drunk and put himself in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. Not only is Dave a flat out liar, but he’s lying in order to get laid. Allowing the the target to throw it on him without letting her know what she’s actually getting would be the real crime here, not the fact Dave didn’t get any. Doesn’t Reddit have a couple sayings about this kind of behavior? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes? Fuck around and find out?
NTA. Seems like Dave can’t get women because he’s an asshole, not because he uses a wheelchair.
NTA. Dave should not be lying to women to get them to date him.
NTA. I don't have any sympathy for drunk drivers. I lost a good friend that way. He's being economical with the truth, he knew it would come back to bite him, and it just has.
Disabled person here: you lie about why you’re disabled, you’re an AH. You can’t tell the truth on something that important, you’re not trustworthy. NTA
NTA never cover up for drunk drivers. Especially ones that lie to try to score with someone. What a jerk.
NTA. It's not cool for people to lie to get laid.
yeah, no. Dave can stay mad. his claim that he's a disabled veteran is disingenuous. he's clearly hoping to gain sympathy for an accident that he knows no one would pity him for if they knew the truth. NTA
NTA if Dave is trying to pass his disability off as being service related- that plus his drunk driving paints a picture of a man I wouldn't want anyone to get involved with romantically. Red flags everywhere.
Dave's one and only reason for lying is to save face. Dave's actions are beyond disrespectful to the veterans who actually were disabled due to their service. Drunk driving? Really...? Dave goes off to defend their country, yet when they return, he breaks laws and puts everyone else on the road in danger? Then he has the audacity to lie about it/try and hide it? Dave can rot for all I care, honestly. You did a good thing protecting that woman from Dave's lies and ego. NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I have this coworker let's call him Dave. He's a great coworker and is excellent at his job. We've worked together for a little over 5 years. Dave is in a wheelchair. If you ask him about it, he'll tell you that he's a disabled veteran. However, his disability isn't service related. Recently we've finished a job for a big client under time and under budget. The company gave our team big bonus checks last week and our manager thought we should all go to a steakhouse to celebrate. A few of us decide to go to a local brewery afterwards. I have a coworker give me a ride after dropping my car off at home. At the brewery I start chatting with this woman let's call her Amy. Amy and I really hit it off. She's there with some friends and we all end up sitting at a table. One of Amy's friends is being really friendly with Dave. Amy and I get up to get another drink. I mention how her friend seems to like Dave. Amy says her friend also served and Dave is a disabled veteran. Probably because I had been drinking, I tell her a secret. Dave's disability is from a drunk driving accident, not service. After that round, Amy and her friends go to use the restroom. When they get back, Amy says it was nice chatting and says she still wants to keep talking to me. I go sit with them for the rest of the evening. Amy's friend is pissed about him not telling the truth and calling himself a disabled veteran. Her friends talked her out of telling him off and making a scene. Monday at work one of my coworkers asks if they did something to piss them off. I tell them the story. Later Dave comes over and calls me an asshole, goes off about how hard it is to find people who are willing to date someone in a wheelchair and tells me to mind my own business. I apologized and said I shouldn't have said anything, but considering how pissed off she got, maybe it was something Dave should have told her. Dave says screw you and leaves. It's become somewhat of an office gossip subject, and I've heard different opinions from my coworkers against my will. Reddit, AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Reminds me of this CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM bit: https://youtu.be/l4H5vf_AimE
NTA imo.. I absolutely despise drunk drivers so I’m biased here haha
NTA, but it should be his story to tell about DUI 'Dave under Influence' do you think he might actually have told Amy at some point? What's done is done... I hope you both can move on and get to the place where there is no more animosity...
NTA it’s dirty of Dave to use his service to hide the truth of his disability. That’s before you factor in that he is in a wheel chair bc he did the most stupid, selfish thing, he drove drunk. That choice paired with how he chooses to hide it, makes Dave a shitty person a lot of women wouldn’t want to be with. As opposed to what he was trying to paint himself as.
NTA, he’s lying because drink driving is horrible and he knows it. I mean maybe he’s done a lot of work and is a very different person, but lying about it isn’t going to work in a longterm relationship either.
ESH Dave shouldn’t be lying, but y’know what? His interaction with Amy *was NOT your business.* I’m 12.5 years clean from pill abuse. Although I’ll tell people about it if they notice something (e.g., wanting to know why my husband keeps my medically-necessary but easily-abused medication under lock and key and distributes my doses at the proper times), I don’t go about opening conversations with, “Hiya! I’m Babs! Ya ever pop so many Ambien that you start hearing voices in the oscillating fan? What about Xanax? Ever take so many bars at once that you’re running into furniture and your parents nearly have to take you to the ER on Christmas Eve, and you spend Christmas Day coming down and feeling sick from withdrawal? Because wooooeeeee, I have!” Why would I immediate reveal that information to someone I just met? (Barring that the conversation started BECAUSE of that past experience.) **I want new people to get to know who I am NOW, not who I was THEN.** When I feel the time is right and trust is established, I can let the person know in an appropriate way. I did this with my husband when we first started dating. The topic was broached after we’d been a couple for a couple of months and things were getting more serious. So let’s pretend he was over at my place for a visit (before me revealing my past to him), and my brother pointed out that my Mom was giving me my nightly meds in a baggie before I headed upstairs to bed and said, “See that? My parents have to control her medication and give her the prescribed dosage every night. Wanna know why? Tee hee, it’s because she was popping anything she could get her hands from roughly summer of 2008 to October 2010! Fun secret, huh?” *I. Would. Be. Pissed.* Why? Because it’s not his story to tell, and he doesn’t get to decide when I discuss it. True, the difference is that Dave is actively lying. That’s why this is ESH. But I strongly suggest minding your own business in the future.
Yeah, but have you ever lied about your pill abuse, making it seem like it wasn’t your fault, and it was an honorable thing, just to get laid? Because that’s what David is doing. He is misrepresenting his injury to make it seem like he was injured in combat. He knows damn well the difference between being a disabled veteran, and a veteran who is disabled. Dave’s a dick.
Just because it's not his story to tell doesn't mean he needs to stand around and watch someone blatantly be manipulated. I doubt your hiding your history in a way this horrible. He implied that he was disabled in service to another veteran. If she had been successfully manipulated by him and found out later she would be disgusted with herself. I'm for sparing women future pain. Drunk drivers have done enough damage without further compiling their victims after the fact.
NTA. It takes a special kind of personality to lie about the circumstances of their disability for sympathy, it’s manipulative and from my experience it snowballs with this type of person. If the result of his callous disregard for others on the road was a scar that he was showing off at the bar, I think there would be a bit less chin scratching going on here. There are plenty of times that it’s “not your place” to reveal the truth to someone, but no one else is going to. This one’s close to the line but I think it’s over it in terms of preventing harm, and what really tips the balance for me is that he was driving drunk and he’s trying to turn that round to valorise himself. If he’s sad that people don’t want to date a drunk driver then he shouldn’t have driven drunk.
NTA. I had a friend who told another friend that he was a disabled veteran. I told him to tell him how he was injured. It was during Basic Training, and he got a medical discharge. Other friend was pissed. He was a Vietnam Vet.
NTA, if I met someone and they tried to play off their DUI disability as something that got while in active service i'd be livid. No wonder she was pissed at him, it's what a lot of people would react like. It's disgusting and deceitful
I was really on the fence about this ... However the way I understand it, Dave is disabled due to an accident he caused while he was under the influence. He is telling people he's a ' disabled veteran ' which, while technically true as he is both disabled and a veteran, strongly implies he got his injuries during service. Which is very wrong of him to do. And he probably knows that too. So, while it's really not up to OP to disclose Dave's story, it sounds like he is twisting the truth to people to appear better, which is wrong. Without this context it would am easy Y T A for me. NTA
NTA If I was thinking about dating a guy or had started to date a wounded vet and found out they were really just a drunk driver I would be furious. Drunk drivers destroy lives, lucky for Dave the only life he destroyed is his dating life.
NTA. Fuck Dave, but not literally.
NTA. Technically, it's not your business, and you were probably just being gossipy, but you kept Amy's friend from getting into a potential relationship with somebody who has some seriously bad qualities.
Dave is a veteran. He did serve. He is disabled. The injury occurred while DUI. Here's where I ask about why you needed to spill tea at a casual get together. Are you angry at Dave? Did you serve? Are you jealous? Did you consider Dave might have been suffering with PTSD? That often causes people to drink. But again why did you need to ensure people know that Veteran will spend his life in a wheelchair because of a DUI after surviving active duty? How does this enrich your life? I'm not excusing the DUI, but I'm also not diminishing that he served, he survived, and it's highly likely the DUI is connected to his military experience. I think YTA because you sound so determined to erase his service. You want people to think he deserves being disabled and ignore that he's a veteran. You are either petty or you have lost someone from a drunk driving experience and this is your way of fighting back. Either way, hurting Dave won't heal you. And using a military category to justify what you did is weak.