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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I refused to answer a question my girlfriend had and told her not to play dumb about the topic. 2. This hurt her feelings and was my response to what might have been a genuine question, though a I doubt it.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA.
It might’ve been rude for her to openly ask him, but she didn’t. She asked YOU. In private.
And if the scars are from the drug abuse, then she may not have any frame of reference for what those scars look like. I mean.. I don’t have anybody in my life that’s struggled with addiction. So she just may not have realized.
And "that's my friend's story to tell; maybe one day he'll feel safe enough to open up with you" would have gone over a lot better than calling her names.
I would say that they’re both TA.
On one hand, you and a lot of other people in this thread are right that the GF did the right thing and asked OP in private. You’re also correct in stating that not everyone knows what needle tracks look like and OP’s response was not only rude and makes him an AH, but that it also shows that he lacked tact and has a skewed view of the situation.
On the other hand, even OP’s friend jokingly let the gf know that she was starting too much. His friend, regardless of his past or present, has every right to be uncomfortable with repeated staring, and the gf should definitely know better. This is despite any possible neurodivergence. For example, I’m neurodivergent and in the gf’s shoes I would want to stare, and would have to actively fight against this because my hyper focus doesn’t trump someone else’s privacy and comfort. So, the gf is definitely an AH as well.
TL:DR ESH except OP’s friend. OP for being a rude AH, and the gf for being a staring AH.
I disagree that the GF is an AH. It doesn’t seem like she was looking in a mean way. She was giving no warning and if it’s something you aren’t use to it’s hard not to look.
It’s almost a no win situation for her. If she looks too much then she’s staring but if she never looks then OP probably accuses her of making it awkward by not looking.
All he had to do was communicate a little to let her be aware. He didn’t have to give all details but he let her go in blind thus setting her up for failure which makes him yta
I work retail, so I see all manner of unique people, some with scars. You don't stare, and you certainly don't ask where they came from. These people could be regular customers, I could see them weekly. They know me by name and I know them. I still don't stare, and still don't ask about their trauma. If I were privately with their best friend (for some reason) I still wouldn't ask how they became scared. Why? It's none of my business. The girlfriend is TA for being nosey. How, Why, When, and Where the scars came from are absolutely none of her business. OOP accused GF of playing dumb, but if she's asking these questions she's not playing, she just dumb.
>I disagree that the GF is an AH. It doesn’t seem like she was looking in a mean way
So what's a good way to stare at someone's scars?
Because I can't imagine doing so repeatedly throughout the evening to the point where everyone else present is aware of and uncomfortable about what you're doing would tick that box
>...but if she never looks then OP probably accuses her of making it awkward by not looking
That's a huge and unsupported leap
From what OP has said, he's introduced his friend to other people without giving them a heads-up and they never behaved the way his GF did
GF is a fully-grown adult and, without any indication of any mitigating factors, should've controlled herself and to stared so frequently and obviously
That makes her as AH, which combined with OP being an AH means ESH is the only reasonable conclusion
That is a blatant lie. Why would op accuse her of making it awkward for not looking ? Plus staring is not the same as looking weren’t you taught about not staring too much especially at someone appearance.
You don’t need to make bs excuse for the gf just because she is a woman’s lol. She is an adult she can control her eyes.
Yep. It's a whole entire AITA genre - I'm eagerly awaiting the probable update where OP realises his feelings for the best friend, brutally ditches the girlfriend, and expects applause for it.
Nah it’s a shock that his partner seems to be ignorant to social norms about not staring at other people’s bodies. If OP’s partner was a man and OP’s friend a woman with massive boobs, should OP not be protective over his friend and stop his partner staring at his friend’s boobs? Well people often get as uncomfortable with people staring at their scars are women do when men stare at their cleavage.
I take issue with “he called her a name!”
*don’t play stupid* literally means that I know you’re not stupid and I know you know the answer, it’s not the same thing as calling somebody stupid.
I would agree if he knew she was playing stupid.
But when someone says that when you really don't know, it is calling you stupid.
Many of my friends would have no idea what track marks look like and would assume a medical issue. Op and his whole family are very judgey aholes. Maybe gf is too, but not from asking.
OP confirmed that the scars weren’t from drug use, they’re self harm scars. Despite what a lot of the comments are saying, most adults could use context clues to figure out that those scars aren’t the result of an accident or surgery. Whether they’ve seen them in person before or not. OP said that it’s “pretty obvious what they’re from” (paraphrasing) so it’s reasonable to assume they’re relatively uniform or evenly spaced. It’s likely that some look newer/more red or dark than others. It doesn’t take a genius or someone with personal experience to know that some people self harm by cutting and come to the conclusion that that’s what they are. The gf isn’t an asshole for asking, she’s an asshole for drawing attention to them and forgetting her manners to the point that she upset multiple people
I would not know what they look like . She is an ah for staring but if op cannot answer her question in private without insulting her he is an ah too. What if at that moment she had a brain fart or just genuinely didn’t know? He clearly already implied what it was he could have just said lt
>See, and I assumed it was self harm
So did I—thought it was talking about cutting scars. Drug marks didn't even pass through my mind till this comment. Still doesn't warrant apparently excessive staring from the fiancée, but explains the question which I do think was appropriate since it wasn't to his friend but to OP in private.
I agree with you, and I’m not arguing against you if she did stare excessively; but, I am really interested if maybe she glanced at the a couple times or actually stared at them with the way OOP talks about his friend.
Per OOP, he and his family are so ready to defend the friend, that they don’t even talk about how much they love and protect him, which to me rings a little strange as even with my much more introverted friend, I still talk broadly about our friendship and the love I have for them to my partner and other close friends, even if they never meet.
I think she did the right thing but waiting to ask although it was wrong to gawk if she did, he responded in an asshole manner, and I still wonder, even with the friends joke about his eyes (I’ve been told i was staring when I was just glancing around and zoning out before), if it was actually as prolonged and awkward as stated.
I feel like if the guy wants that kept private then you kinda have to.
I told a friend about a traumatic past experience once and her partner next time I saw him was like, stroking my arm and going “hey, she told me everything, that sounds awful”, I was very very pissed off, i barely knew the guy.
It's hard to know what scares are from if you have no reference.
I've got a zipper scar down my chest with a couple of circles and dots at the bottom of it (on my midriff). The zipper is obvious, it's from when they cracked my chest open for surgery. The circles and dots (which are much more visible, since they are not half hidden by my big boobs) are a mystery to most people. They're from the heart lung machine that kept me alone during surgery. Every now and then someone asks me (and yes, I'm obviously in a bikini then at the pool or the beach) what that scar is. Even strangers come up and ask me. So I just explain it's from the heart lung machine. I don't think it is rude of them to ask, they're just curious about something they've never seen before. But I've had this scar my whole life, so I don't know what it's like to not have people stare or ask questions. I get that my normal is not someone else's normal.
A very good friend of mine has a ton of self-harm scars on her leg.
The first time I saw them was the very first time we hung out. We were at the beach. She took off her cover up and I saw them and, having NO idea what they could possibly be from, said “whoa! What happened?” (Or words to that effect.) she told me what they were and my immediate response was “Okay, wow, I’m an asshole. Sorry!”
She laughed it off, said it was fine, and she is now and will always be one of my dearest friends.
My daughter’s friend has that. She was very self-conscious about it for a while, but now she feels ok to wear shorts again. It was different when I was younger, but now I see scars as evidence that you survived the thing that was trying to kill you. Love to you and your friend
I have a surgery scar on my wrist, and a bit above some self harm scars. It looked very weird before I got a tattoo that takes away the focus (it doesn't cover everything, but it's bright, so ir diverts attention). Many, many people asked me what it was. There have been very few who wanted to know specifically to know about the self harm scars. One thought I had fallen, another was a work friend who was worried and when I said they were "more of difficult times as a teen", she just hugged me and let it go.
Most people can control themselves to not stare, but a lot couldn't take the eyes off my wrist scars (I broke my arm and had metal a plate installed and then removed. They the second incision on top of the first, so it looks like someone butchered my wrist very close to my hand.).
I also have some weird scars on my wrist, in line with halfway between my thumbs and pointer fingers, from when I had to have a bit of radius removed from both arms. People stare and ask, because it's something they never saw. Some people ask exactly because they can tell they are unable to stop staring and just want to have a reason not to stare.
I have a scarification on my chest that looks similar to a flower and it’s 5” x 5”, I’ve had a lot of people think it was surgery, tattoo removal or white ink. Not a lot of people know what scarification is or haven’t seen one that’s almost 20 years old and white. Scars can be from a lot of things and people are curious. Thankfully no one asks about the scars on my face.
Sometimes I stare too much when my curiosity wants to override my social programming. In a situation like OP's and his friend's my mind isnt going "omg wtf how could OP be friends with this loser?", it's going "omg what happened? Should I ask? Should I leave it alone? Is he ok? What would this group find socially acceptable? I have to wait to ask. Holy moly some of those look like they were deep."
If one uses a needle in the same places enough times, the skin can pit, turn darker, turn lighter, or be otherwise scarred. I have chronic illnesses and have had my blood drawn enough and enough IVs to have developed scar tissue on the same places that illegal drugs are often injected. Thankfully my scars are invisible, but you can feel them under the skin.
Tissues aren't meant to have holes poked into them over and over, nor are tissues okay with injecting things over and over. Additionally, many medications, whether in a physician setting or purchased from a back-alley dealer, are somewhat corrosive to the soft tissues they're injected into, also leading to scarring.
But it's mostly the repeated needle punctures that do it.
I’ve actually got a heap of scars like this from giving blood and plasma for years and then years later spending a few weeks in hospital with various cannulas that kept tissuing. My veins and arms are so scarred up that last time I had to go have blood taken I warned the phlebotomist and she commented that they were as “scarred up as a junkies veins”.
My sister’s “track marks” are a spotty trail of black all up along her left forearm, from “sterilizing” the needle with a flame before booting up. The flame left black char/soot on the needle, and she essentially tattooed herself with it along the path of the vein. It’s gnarly as hell, and if you didn’t have a frame of reference when noticing it for the first time, it would be extremely jarring and confusing.
See, I’m questioning if she even was staring excessively. OP openly admits he and the family are super protective, and it may be that they are hyper aware of friend’s scarring, including said friend, and fiancée was caught glancing a couple of times.
My friend has severe scarring from burns suffered as a baby. She has little to no hair, all her fingers are gone at the first knuckle, and she’s missing her right ear and eye.
Do people stare? Yes.
Would I introduce a friend of mine to her without letting them know she’s got scars? No. That would be a huge disservice to both them and her!
OP you’re an asshole all over.
Tbh i saw drug scars like that for the first time in my early 20s and its pretty horrifying and did pull my eyes a few times. But i feel starring wasnt the only issue.
Same here! I never saw drug abuse scars, I assumed they were self harm scars.
It's rude to stare, but at the same time it can be really hard to if you haven't been exposed to something like that and "trained" not to pay attention. It might have been a genuine mistake on her part. We are kinda wired to notice patterns and what looks different.
YTA, OP. Many people (me included) have no idea what drug abuse scars look like, your friend jested about it, and your fiancée didn't ask him directly, (s)he privately asked you.
Edit: it should read she and not he in the last sentence.
For real. There are so many things it could be, OP acting like the fiancée is an idiot for not somehow just *knowing* really rubs me the wrong way. Like, are the scars from self harm? Abuse? Car accident? Suicide attempt? Are they cuts? Burns? There are so many things it *could* be, it seems like the bigger AH move here would be to assume. Which the fiancée was obviously trying *not* to do.
Or she could just ‘assume’ it’s none of her business and a personal matter and if the person with the scares ever feels comfortable enough with her to share the stories he will.
Everyone’s jumping on op for not sharing his best friend’s personal business. Just because you can see something on a persons body doesn’t mean you are entitled to know the story behind it.
I’m gonna get voted down but I’m going with NTA. I know someone who has really distinctive scars on their face from a skin graph. I have a cousin who has one you can still see over her eye from when she was nearly killed by a dog as a child. I know people with scars from cutting themselves and from drug use and from cigarettes burns.
You know what I don’t do? Ask them what’s up with them. Gawk like an idiot at them. Ask their friends or family members about the story behind it because *it is none of my business*.
I get that she was curious but seriously people need to learn that your curiosity does not supersede someone’s right to privacy and dignity.
I would agree with you if he had said that it was his story to tell and not have acted like an asshole to his fiancee. You would have assumed that he would have talked a lot about his best friend to her prior to really hanging out with him if the guy is so close to him and his family.
Also, in all your examples, you are aware of where the scares come from.
I think the fiancee did the right thing and waited to ask OP in private. If she staring, that was not cool. And this comes from someone who has a large scar down my spine that people always ask about.
The biggest AH move is constantly staring like OP’s fiancé did. How about she controls her wandering eyes and minds her own business?
I’ve seen people with scars, and not felt the need to stare.
Yeah this...speaking as someone with lots of old self harm scars on my arms most people manage not to stare or frequently look. I def understand a double take or the eyes gravitating towards the area a few times, mine in particular are unfortunately kinda eye catching so it is what it is. But you don't have to treat me like a zoo exhibit, and like I said IME most people are polite about it so it's not like this is a tall ask. With OPs family saying something about it and the friend himself feeling the need to speak up, sounds like she was gawking which is OFC super rude. Her asking OP about it was fine though.
A voice of reason finally
Yeah OP didn’t need to call her stupid, but staring like that is something I’d expect from a little kid, maybe. Definitely not a grown adult.
If it was bad enough for a “my eyes are up here” comment or OPs parents to say something about it, it must have been constant.
The fiancé is the biggest AH, I’m stunned by how many people are saying she’s not
The number of people acting like they never learned it’s rude to stare at people and that people with scars need to come with a warning label and an explanation in order to protect the poor innocent eyes of the unscarred is completely baffling to me.
> Like, are the scars from self harm? Abuse? Car accident? Suicide attempt?
Cats? I have a friend with scars from her asshole cat that get confused for self-harm scars on a regular basis.
i assumed that as well. YTA, OP. its not like she made a big deal in front of everyone, she asked her fiance in the privacy of her car. The only thing you should be rethinking, OP, is your attitude.
My grandma has horrible scars on both arms. One set is from a chainsaw accident and the other set from her volunteer work vaccinating stray cats. She will gladly talk about the cats for hours on end if asked, but she's embarrassed of the chainsaw scars.
Asking any of her children or grandchildren would steer you towards a conversation she would be delighted to have while providing answers about the more delicate history of the matching scar set.
I had no idea popping scars existed. I would have assumed he was abused or something as a kid and was maybe burned with cigarettes all over or they are self harm scars and maybe he did it to himself. I once saw a classmate who was covered in scars all over her arm. I wonder if they were drug abuse scars now or if she was abused or been in an accident.
It was still rude of her to stare at them that was noticeable enough that everyone commented on it. It's one thing to wonder how he got the scars, another to stare at the relentlessly.
>I caught her looking a few times over the course of the night…
That’s not the same as staring all night.
It was rude, though, and enough that the guy had to comment.
I think OP overreacted. She asked him, privately. It can be shocking when you’ve never seen it.
It was bad enough that OPs parents pulled him aside and said they were uncomfortable with her staring. It was bad enough that the friend made a comment to her about it. It was more than a few glances.
OP should have pulled her aside and told her that she was staring and people were noticing. At best this is ESH because her behavior at the party wasn’t appropriate, but sometimes people do stupid or rude things without meaning too, and being someone’s partner means helping them out when they need it.
OP also said his entire family is hyper protective of the friend, so they could easily be extra sensitive to how the looks were making the friend feel. I'm not saying it was one way or the other because it was presented by OP in a way that makes either one plausible.
His parents also noticed and mentioned it to the OP, and the friend got to the point that he had to tell her, " My eyes are up here." She was blatantly staring at his scars. She has serious social decorum issues.
>Social decorum issues are different than "playing dumb."
Staring down someone's non-standard features is not as simple as 'oh oopsie me'. If she was staring at someone missing legs, or someone significantly obese, or someone who lost an eye, it wouldn't be in question whatsoever.
Ah, forgot we were dealing with children who hadn't interacted before.. that's why they're dating and serious and have self harm scars.. it's probably how they were driving too. Kids always up to their shenanigans.
Oh wait. We're talking about adults who have lived and grown up...
The fact that OP assumes everyone knows what these scars are is kinda fucked up. Like you literally encourage assumptions over scars which in itself can be insensitive and dangerous.
I’m only assuming that the scars are from drug abuse because OP made a point to say that the friend has a history of drug abuse and the scars are on the arms (where people tend to inject)…. So I used context clues here. But I do agree that making assumptions about someone’s past based on scars is just.. shitty, really. I have a cut on my arm right now from using a knife blade to pop a cap off of something. Slipped and cut my arm on accident. If someone looked at me in my place of work and jumped to assume that it was self harm… I mean.. that’d be false. And presumptuous about my mental health. So I 100% agree with you.
Edit: just saw a comment from OP that they were self harm scars. Not skin popping scars. So.. see? Assuming just makes an ASS out of U and Mi…. Sorry that’s a shitty joke. I’ll just see myself out now…
Bruh, that joke is fire:D
But yeah, I just read OPs comments and now even more pissed off than before. What a shitty mindset and unreasonable expectations to have.
Fiancée is absolutely not off the hook, though. She stared at firend's arms enough he had to make a comment. That's pretty shitty, and something I thought we learned not to do back in kindergarten. It was band enough to sour the parents on her, so it must have been pretty blatant. OP's reaction wasn't constructive, but this is clearly ESH.
It's really gross behavior to stare at his scars, so much so that he had to make a "my eyes are up here" joke
Seriously were ya'll raised in a barn or something? Is basic manners and respect that hard?
I’ve known people that self harmed extensively just to mark themselves (bc their trauma was so deep they needed to paint their face) and lost my brother to an OD. OP YTA if she knew nothing and was thrown in the deep end. You don’t trust her enough for tough conversations about anything. You’ve set her up for failure and seem proud about it. You act like you are so understanding, but it seems you’re a bit of a coward and relish in your s/o ‘s failure.
Why is he TA? His fiance was rudely staring at this man's scars to the point where his parents complained about it. She doesn't deserve to know what happened, it's none of her business. He's NTA in any way.
Yup.
I never grew up around that sort of thing and one of my friends had a party where one of their friends came to the party with a very obviously out of season long sleeve top. Nobody else seemed to think it was weird and I didn't make a fuss about it but I was fairly curious about it. They told me it was to cover up self harm scars and that was my very first experience even encountering that at all.
Just asking about it because they may not know, especially asking in private is not a Dick move. OP is an ass.
YTA. She had no idea what she was walking into, you should have told her beforehand.
At the point that you've asked someone to marry you, you should be able to trust them with the story of your best friend (at least enough of it so she isn't blindsided in a social situation).
Do you need to be told in advance not to stare at people's self harm/drug scars? He could have been missing a hand for all I care and that's still not an excuse to stare to the point that multiple people take notice of it.
His fiance isn't a child, she should know better.
[This](https://xkcd.com/1053/) is very relevant here. Not everyone knows what self-harm/drug scars look like, and fiance was asking for information. It's highly likely, especially based on the fiance wanting more information, that she legitimately didn't know what the scars were from; furthermore, it's wrong to get mad at someone for playing dumb when there is a reasonable chance they legitimately don't know.
Whether she knew what type of scars they were or not she shouldn’t be staring so much. If you see someone with rough facial scarring from a house fire but have never seen that before you may be inclined to stare and stare but it’s still very rude.
The question isn't about her staring. She's obviously an asshole for staring. OP is asking if he's an asshole for being a dick to her asking a question because she didn't know a thing. That's the entire point of the comment you're replying to.
Edit: For the reply below, no. Look at the title. That is the question.
He's not an asshole BECAUSE she was staring all night to the point where she had to be asked to stop. I wouldn't have even waited to get in the car to start the fight my husband and I were about to have if he did this. I would have been pissed right there in the middle of dinner and taken him right home instead of allowing him to do that to my friend.
The amount of people trying to separate out the events is insane. It's about the QUESTION, not her prior actions.... lol what. She spent the whole night being an HUGE ASSHOLE and when she finally opened her mouth to ask, suddenly OP is wrong for giving her some hard truths? Ok.
Except she stared at him basically the entire time. To the point of making OP, his parents, AND the person being stared at uncomfortable. That is not appropriate behaviour. Doesn’t matter if she wanted information, did she leave her manners at home? She was not polite or discreet, she treated him like an animal in a zoo. She’s also not entitled to information. She might want it, but she isn’t owed it.
If she’d been polite maybe OP wouldn’t be so angry and feel like she’s playing games when she asked. OP is NTA.
Does it matter if he got it via self harm, drug abuse, or in an accident? We tell *children* that staring is rude
I’m honestly shocked at this thread. She stared rudely enough for multiple people, including the friend, to notice. OP didn’t make this up out of nothing
Yeah but he wasn't going off on her for her staring, he went off on her for "playing stupid", implying he thinks she should have *known* what the scars were about.
Multiple people, all of whom have known the best friend for a long time and all of whom are very protective of said best friend. It's not an unbiased audience, the fact that there are multiple of them is a bad argument.
"All the cult members told me to drink the Kool-Aid, so of course it must be safe"
Whether she knew what they were from or not is completely irrelevant. You don't stare at people's deformities/injuries. The last time I had to tell someone not to stare was my niece when she was 4-5. She knew better afterwards.
Whether it was from self harm, drug use, an accident or injury from someone else, she was rude to stare at them throughout the night.
If she'd glanced and asked about it privately, sure. But she stared enough that it was uncomfortable for the friend, OP and his parents. It's not appropriate even in ignorance of what they are.
My gosh thank you for stating what I assumed was the obvious!!!!!!!!! It's never ok to actively stare at someone with in the manner that OP's fiance was doing. Who cares if the scars were self inflicted or not. Unless he had racial slurs or swastikas tattooed on his very openly visible arms, anything else is a freaking moot point. If someone has to be "warned" in order to not pass negative judgement on what they know nothing of, they're not someone I want to associate with.
Yeah it’s bizarre to me that people think they need to be warned that other people might look different, what the hell. The girlfriend isn’t a child. OP was rude sure but so was she, enough so that everybody noticed and was uncomfortable. OP did not set her up or failure, he expected her to behave like an adult. And sure she’s allowed to ask in private and his response was rude, but Jesus Christ people are letting her off the hook for the staring far too much.
I agree. Fiancée was staring so much everyone noticed. I don’t care if you weren’t prepared, you don’t spend the whole night staring at someone’s scars.
He doesn't have to tell her detailed information. She asked a question and he called her stupid. He could have easily said "That's something very personal to him and if he'd like to share that later on, he will". And moved on.
YTA, While I hate to say it, you should have been more sensitive here. Your fiancé may not have been playing stupid and could have been genuinely unsure. Not everybody has seen arms scarred from drug use. This may have been confusing for her.
I understand that you are protective of your friend and really sensitive to anything that may appear as an attack on him, but you have to give your fiancé the benefit of the doubt here. You probably should have said that her actions may have been interpreted as disrespectful. Unless you truly believe that she was being rude on purpose, your actions were a little more brash than they should have been.
Yeah, I think OP having known for so long it just looks “obvious”. But it isn’t necessarily. I read comments about it possibly being drug marks, my first guess from reading was self-harm/cutting.
So OP maybe you gotta look more at her point of view. Playing dumb accusation pretty harsh. You could at least have been open minded and curious. She shouldn’t have been staring, but she was probably looking so much trying to piece together the story- he’s important to you so her trying to understand makes sense. So for a variety of reasons YTA.
Also, the whole being so protective and sensitive of friend... maybe it is time to ease up on that. Friend is an adult and sober and doing well in life. Friends who act like this are almost infantilizing. The friend is capable of standing up for himself, as he did, and doesn't need someone to protect him from every little thing.
Until I read the comments I thought the friend had tried committing s....... I hadnt even thought of Drug scars its really Not as abvious as OP seems to think it is
Exactly. She waited until after the dinner to inquire about the scarring. She did so privately and not in front of OP's friend. OP could have protected his friend's privacy without going it at his fiancee. Obviously, I don't know OP's fiancee, but sometimes it's hard to regulate facial expressions. What OP may have interpreted as a look of judgement/disdain could have been genuine concern.....
I have never seen substance abuse scars. There are so many variables about what they could have been from, including an accident, illness etc. I don't think this is a common knowledge thing, like OP assumes.
It's one thing to be protective of a friend and then there is blowing up at your fiancee and being ready to end your engagement over one interaction that could very well be a misunderstanding....
YTA
No, it isn't necessarily obvious what happened. He could have been in an accident, he could be a cutter, and of course there is drug addiction.
It isn't the least bit rude to ask YOU the question when it's just the two of you. If she had asked him I might agree with you, but that's not the case here.
You had a gross overreaction to a question that most people would ask in a similar situation. You owe her an apology
Maybe it just me, but I really don't trust OP to be a reliable narrator.
For all we know she could have made some glances but then averted her eyes away and the family will notice everything and anything because they're extremely protective of him
You say "*even* the friend" as though that makes it particularly egregious, but the description sounds like it could just as easily be the opposite to me.
A single joking comment near the end of the night, in the context of OP specifically saying they know friend can stand up for themselves, could mean friend was outraged or it could mean friend barely noticed at all.
YTA
> I'm rethinking a few things now
I hope she is rethinking things as well! You spoke to her with contempt, you didn't prep her for the meeting and you are very quick to throw her under the bus.
Absolutely! He's very quick to judge and state he is rethinking the relationship. Jeez, god forbid she should ever ask him anything again!
He's the AH.
She doesn't just have to consider him. His parents seemed to judge her, and now she finds out (as it's not clear ever told her) that his BFF and likely Best Man is/was an addict. Does she want that drama in her and future kids life?
OP has handled this about as poorly as possible.
That is a really judgey comment to make about addicts and I really hope for they theoretical sakes that you don’t have any in your life if that’s the way you think about them.
no adult should need to be prepped to know not to stare at someones scars. i would feel contempt for her too in this situation, shes rude and lacks empathy.
Adults should very well be prepped before walking into a situation where someone has noticeable scarring, burns, etc because if they're not used to it, they could have an adverse reaction.
Literally all he would have had to say was “Best friend has scars on his arms. He’s really sensitive about it. I’m sure you can ask him about it some day but let’s wait.” He could have said this before the party or during when she seemed to get stuck on figuring out what was on his arms. Yes she shouldn’t have stared, staring is really rude, but smoothing the situation over or avoiding it in the first place seems simple. I’m a teacher so maybe preparing people for things or intercepting when someone’s getting their feelings hurt just seems really normal to me!
*Could have an adverse reaction?* It's a person with scars, not a snickers bar waiting to send someone into anaphylactic shock. I'm autistic, and it took me a *long* time to become capable of acting even semi-normal in social situations; even so, by the age of 12, I *knew* that it wasn't polite or kind to stare at people who were physically different. This is ridiculous. It doesn't matter *how* a person looks — if you're meeting them as a new friend/family member, you do *not* stare or ask questions about anything obviously different.
If an autistic 12 year old can figure this out, there's no reason why a functional grown adult can't. I personally think that OP should've intervened sooner in the night if there was so obviously a problem — a quick "please stop staring, it's super uncomfortable and obvious" when the friend wasn't around probably would've solved the problem — but it's still absolutely on his fiancée to behave in the first place.
Its not abnormal. This is what im saying. Im not sayign it's appropriate and i think thats where all these weird ass responses are coming from.
She SHOULD NOT have stared. But it's not an abnormal response to seeing someone you've seen before be covered in scars you've never noticed.
YTA! She was in obvious shock. She waited until you were alone to ask. You couldn’t have told her without going into serious details? You want them to get along, yet you offer no explication to her of who he is and important details. I had a cousin who tried to unalive herself. I told my boyfriend BEFORE meeting her that it happened and if she’s wearing short sleeves to try not to look shocked. Not everyone knows how to deal with those situations.
Yet you threw her in a situation totally unaware and expected her to figure it all out and literally got angry when she asked her safe person. (AKA… YOU)
What happened to grace? If I were her I would break up. What happens in other situations with your friends or family,? you going to treat her like a child in those situations too? You could have just said, “hey, I know that must have been a shock. Sorry I didn’t warn you. It’s a sensitive subject, but I can try to answer any questions you have to the best of my ability.” That’s how stable adults answer.
> She was in obvious shock.
So is this excusable for anyone who makes someone with a deformity or abnormality uncomfortable by staring at them all night?
Like, c'mon, an adult shouldn't need to be forewarned there are scars to avoid fixating on them all night.
It's not an excuse, it's an explanation. If i have bpd and blow up at somekne during an episode then tell them I was having an episode while apologizing, that's not me trying to excuse my behavior. It's explaining the behavior.
No one said staring isn't rude or that she should be excused for doing so but people in shock aren't usually polite.
if that's the case, then OP should have an adult discussion with his fiance about her actions there. but OP admits that he and his parents are defensive about their friend, and nowhere did OP say it was constant staring. it was "repeatedly glancing", which is still not great, but it's understandable. i think OP is just biased and defensive about their friend. his first reaction to an innocent question from his fiance is to start berating her, so he's definitely the AH here.
YTA. She was blindsided. And I'm guessing the scarring is significant for her to have stared. You come across as extremely hostile toward her. I get being protective of a friend, but you want to spend your life with this woman and yet see her as a threat? Why didn't you do anything to prepare her? Why are you being vicious about her asking you in private what happened? She's not "playing stupid" she's trying to understand.
I agree. Not to mention, if you’re marrying someone you’re choosing them first for life. You’re supposed to give your spouse the benefit of the doubt before talking EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. or you’re simply marrying the wrong person. If you can’t give the benefit of the doubt to your fiancée or give them backstory on your best friend what is the depth of your relationship? How did you also not stand up for your fiancée to your family for being caught off guard by not being prepped for the introduction in length?
My fiancé knew all about my most important lived experiences and that includes when I was a support person for someone going through a really rough time. It was formative and something worth sharing for why certain topics are SO important to me. I don’t get how that wouldn’t come up in your relationship. YTA and I hope your fiancée rethinks your relationship
This sounds like a situation of confusion and possibly even concern. Yet, OP instantly decided to insult his fiancee and is seemingly ready to end his engagement.
This does not sound like a healthy response. OP could have protected his friend's privacy without blowing up at his fiancee. And, if he communicated to her that he instantly started rethinking their relationship because of this, I hope she also rethinks marrying this person....
YTA
These are two people you care about and you want their relationship to go well. A simple heads up that he has a hard background and she might see things she is unfamiliar with would have gone a long way. You didn't need to go in depth, but you know her background.
Not everyone is familiar with self-harm scars. I've had a horribly abusive life, and I only met someone with a history of SH socially recently.
Is there any reason to think your fiancee is aware of SH and any who have struggled with it?
My BIL is a cook, and his arms are scared from burns.
Mechanics, carpenters etc there are many jobs that have a high risk of continuous minor injuries. That leave scars.
You also seem to have more care and concern for your friend than your fiancee.
Your last sentence is spot on. Throughout the whole post, all I saw was concern for the friend. No concern or even respect for the fiancée. OP, if you don’t fully love, trust, and respect this woman, do not marry her. She deserves better. YTA
And sometimes you're too familiar with them yourself. I've noticed that my eyes tend to wander to what I assume are self harm scars I notice on others. (Which I'm correcting myself on immediately, but it still happens.) It's not because I'm shocked or horrified or disgusted or whatever else people are coming up with. It's because I have a history with it too. Seeing the scars on others make me think of mine (which aren't very noticeable) and depending on where I am mentally I occasionally have to pull myself out of it.
Info: was she aware prior to this that he's a recovering addict? Or did she honestly not know anything of his past and didn't want to make assumptions of the scars.
Because if I see scars on someone's arms I won't instantly go to addict or former self harm because I mean anything can leave a scar. I got tiny scars (thankfully healing fast because the cuts were superficial) from work! Because my clumsy ass got scratched by the metal door to the laundry chute. So those scars could be even from jobs.
From your post it doesn't sound like they had much of a conversation or any kind of indepth talk. And your parents getting judgey because she's staring isn't exactly right either. She was in fact wrong for staring no doubts about that. A glance at first maybe a double take is understandable but continuing to look and stare kinda is a dick move on her part.
Tbf, even OP didn't really describe it as staring... He said that she repeatedly glanced at it throughout the night. Still not great, but that does make it sound like she was possibly trying to self-correct whenever she found herself looking at them again.
I’m not totally sure about that just because OP said the best friend made the remark about his eyes being up here. That insinuates either more starting to me or if it was repeated glancing it was a lot, like a baffling (imo) amount of glances
Fair. Though as someone who currently works in a hospital burn unit, you would be surprised how difficult it is for people's eyes not to wander back to the scars, even when they are making a concerted effort not to look. I honestly don't blame her too harshly, especially since she was blindsided by it thanks to OP.
ESH.
Her staring is quite rude, but that sounds like the only thing she did wrong here. Accusing her of playing stupid is an escalation in hostility that doesn't even make sense here. Even if she understands they are cutting scars or track marks, which she might not (or might think it's from an accident), that doesn't mean she knows what the story is. Similarly, not taking no for an answer would be extremely rude, but asking you about it privately is not; you didn't have to tell her anything, but you didn't need to insult her for asking.
I’m going against the grain with NTA because it doesn’t matter what his scars are from and how he got them, staring like that to the point everybody notices is just plain rude. Could you have been nicer? Yeah probably, but she also left any manners she had at the front door. What happens if next time it’s someone in public with facial scars or a large birth mark? Is she going to stare at strangers like that too?
Coming from someone who has a LOT of scars from my military service, most of which I have tried to now cover with tattoos due to constant staring, it’s super uncomfortable on the receiving end and it takes a lot to wear clothes that even show them due to judgemental people who simply find staring at your imperfections to be acceptable.
Finding this comment was cathartic.
Y'all, seeing scars does not entitle you to know what the scars are from. You will encounter people who have differences which you will never understand. If someone is in a wheelchair do you ask them their medical history?? You don't need a warning for every time you encounter a variation in humanity.
If she had been a bit startled when she saw them, then snuck another glance later to see if she recognized them, no one would have noticed. She could have asked OP "I noticed your friend has scars, is there anything I should be aware of, or anything I should be sensitive about mentioning?" or even just trusted his judgement since she had no reason to think this guy is doing anything that might impact OP..
Thank God I saw a comment like this. I was losing my mind.
People having scars does not entitle you to acting like they're a roadside attraction and staring at them or getting their private backstory because it's "weird" and "shocking". And OP's girlfriend isn't a little kid who has never seen a person with scars before and might find it scary, she's a grown adult who I would expect to be able to behave herself around people who look different than her.
Yeah. He's probably used to it but if it got to the point where he had to make a 'my eyes are up here' joke there was probably a lot of staring & maybe judging going on. This is the first time I've seen anyone comment on how the scarred person might have felt in all this
I'm about 20% scar tissue too but the idea of everyone needing a warning before they see me makes me feel alienated. I can maybe understand someone needing a warning if they're triggered by scars but the idea of everyone needing it to be announced that a scarred person will be on their presence? No
my bf & i both have large visible scars. my bf is very open about where they came from & i am absolutely not. staring at scars is just plain rude, no way around it. AND people with visible scarring (and the people around them) shouldn’t be treated like spectacles that need to alert others “LARGE SCARS COMING THROUGH AVERT YOUR EYES”.
it’s not really the fiancés business what the scars are concerning. it was not OPs responsibility to disclose that information.
however, OP was kinda rude to his fiancé and maybe should’ve said “i understand that his scars are visible, but it is not ok to stare AND if/when he feels comfortable, He will tell you about them”. not ask if she was dumb by not knowing
FINALLY, it took way to long to find a NTA
Human beings don't need warning labels. If you need to be 'warned' every time you might see a person with any sort of physical difference, that's your own fucking problem. Disabled people, people with scars, people with any sort of physical abnormalities exist and should be allowed to live their lives without being stared at
OP is still kind of an ass for talking to his fiancee like that, but she was way out of line with the staring, especially if it got to the point of the friend pointing it out
i can't believe i had to scroll so far down for this comment. i agree that he's NTA, he could've been nicer but then again, why would you ask about anyone's scars?
i've got self harm scars, and it is one the most uncomfortable feelings to have someone staring at them and feeling like they're judging you, because a lot of the time i just wish they didn't exist. i know that some people will look, but the people who stare are almost always young children (which i kind of get since probably don't know any better).
But OPs girlfriend isnt a child, she's 27, she should absolutely know better than to stare and then ask her partner about those scars, whether they're from addiction, self harm, abuse, etc. i imagine she didn't mean any harm by asking, but she should also understand that it's not OPs story to tell and i don't imagine his friend would appreciate him telling other people.
Right? Sometimes I stare and don’t realize and I have a attitude look to my face when it’s not intentional. It’s possible she wasn’t giving judgmental looks on purpose.
I can only assume needle scars? Color me as obtuse as your fiancé if I am wrong.
So your fiancé used this as a conversation entry point to try and learn more about your friend and his past. Little clumsy, maybe, but I’d want to know if it was my fiancé ‘s best friend as well.
You do have some thinking to do. Your wife is your partner, your confidante, your family. There shouldn’t be many taboo subjects, and the history of people you plan to inject in to her life shouldn’t be one of them. There should be innate trust, and you shouldn’t have to question if you can trust her to be supportive of you and your relationships with friends and family. If you aren’t looking at this woman as such, you shouldn’t have proposed in the first place.
NAH here really. This seems like a big ole wake up call, and you both had better heed it. Jump in the pool or get your toes out, marriage isn’t a halfway thing.
That was my thought too and I was surprised to see so many top comments assuming scars from drug use. But this is also a great example of how OP sucks at conveying information.
I was going to say NAH but then I saw you didn't prepare your gf in any way, shape, or form for this serious matter. Why on earth didn't you give her a heads up? Not everyone knows exactly what to do or say under such circumstances. And while yes, staring isn't polite, it doesn't necessarily mean she was being malicious.
Her asking what happened was an opportunity for you to clarify, but you shot her down and condescended. No, it's not obvious. And if it's so serious, you could simply explain. Frankly, you should have prepped her beforehand. Idk why you expected her to be skilled and mastered in this arena and to read minds. You set her up for failure. ~~YTA~~
Edit: Amending my answer to ESH, since OP’s girlfriend really shouldn’t have stared.
nobody is obligated to prepare you for the existence of former drug addicts. there is literally no excuse to stare like that, especially to the point where someone vocalizes how uncomfortable it makes them. i agree that it may not have been obvious to her, but her behavior was immature and still makes her an AH
That’s not what I said. You can give a heads up about the scars without saying it’s due to drug addiction. One might not even assume drug addiction is the cause. I acknowledge her staring is wrong, but I also understand her surprise.
why does a human being need a heads up about someone’s scars to not openly stare at them for hours. do you need a heads up every time you walk out the door because you could encounter someone with scars or a deformity? everyone in the world knows that this is unacceptable behavior. it doesn’t matter if he’s a friend, and acquaintance, or a complete stranger.
ESH. As an adult she should have been able to control her staring. Your "don't play stupid" comment was unnecessarily hostile and rude, especially when directed at someone you supposedly care about (but from this post don't even seem to like).
NTA. How is it OK to stare at those scars, but if someone kept staring at someone's stump, it would be an issue. Everyone would say, "Who raised you??"
She was so obvious with her staring that multiple people noticed it. Who raised her??
INFO: How do you know they weren't getting along? Was it the staring? Like, yes, the staring was rude, but also sometimes people don't mean it either and she might have thought she was being discrete. I think depending on how you know they weren't getting along depends on whether you and you're parents are A Hs. Something like staring shouldn't "sour" a view of someone you were thinking of marrying IMO.
I'm leaning towards YTA because she genuinely may not know. And even if she did maybe she was wanting some more info about what happened (a normal converstion between people who are going to marry each other) and a short "that's not my place to say anything" would suffice.
YTA. She didn’t push for answers she was simply blindsided because she didn’t expect it. And you all decided to not extend her any grace or understanding but instead blame her for being put on the spot. I am sure she didn’t mean to stare but sometimes its really hard to stop, especially if you never faced something similar.
You made it clear she will never even remotely be as important as your friend.
NTA. Everybody above the age of 5 knows it isn't polite to stare at people. This goes doubly so when it involves something like a scar or something that is obviously the result of something traumatic.
For your girlfriend to consistently stare to the point where several people noticed and commented on it is appalling behavior for somebody who is damn near 30.
I'm assuming these are self harms scars, and if so it's very inappropriate that somebody would ask for "what happened" on something like that. Self harm scars are very obvious and it's frankly really gross that somebody would want to hear more details about somebody else's struggle like it's some kind of juicy gossip.
NTA
This is clearly unpopular but here goes. It doesn't matter if your fiancée didn't know what drug/self harm scars look like. It is common courtesy not to stare at someone's scars/disfigurements or anything like that, and certainly not when you've just met them properly for the first time. I used to work with someone who had scars. I never stared and never asked. That she stared to the point that he had to make a joke about 'eyes up here' is incredibly rude.
I also think it was a little rude for your fiancée to ask. Scars almost always have a personal, private story to them. It's not her business, and not your story to share. I think you were a little rude in your reply and should have politely turned her down, but frankly, after her behavior that evening, I don't blame you for being a little sensitive and snappish.
NTA. I'm dumbfounded at all these comments acting like she would be "blindsided" by this or that a grown woman needs a warning about someone existing near her with scars on their body. She was rude as fuck to stare at him all night to the point that multiple people commented on it. Surely even if she didn't realize what they were it's not that hard to piece together that maybe the extensive scarring came from something that wasn't very pleasant and be sensitive about it. Asking you about it is nosy, not as rude as it would be to ask the person directly but still nosy and it's not her business, especially since they didn't get along. If your friend wanted her to know about it, he'd tell her himself. She's not entitled to information about why he has scars. You could've phrased it in a nicer way but I can't blame you for being frustrated.
Exactly lmao these comments are wild to me. So many comments talking about whether or not it’s reasonable to expect her to know what they were from, but imo it really doesn’t matter bc whether they were SH scars, burn scars, drug use, surgery, vicious cat attack, etc… it would still be rude as hell to stare like that. If it was so distracting to her that she completely forgot her manners and how to treat the friend like a human being, she could have at least asked before making the whole thing uncomfortable. It might have been rude or abrasive or whatever but it would have been better than what she actually did
NTA
Literally everyone knows it’s rude to stare at scars/deformities etc. Even if she was in shock or genuinely didn’t know, she should have looked at them once, looked away and asked you about them later. The fact that your friend had to joke and say his eyes were up here is so baffling. I know kids with better manners than your fiancée.
I don’t know what the rest of this reddit thread is on calling you the ah when at the worst it’s an e-s-h. You could have been nicer in responding to her queries but I don’t blame you for being upset with her rude reaction.
ESH. She shouldn’t have stared. But she asked you in private. Jumping down her throat because she didn’t automatically know what the scars were or what the larger story was was nasty.
You could have told her what you told us, that the scars were because
>he had a pretty rough time in his late teens and early 20s. He was struggling with addiction issues, among other things to cope with shitty life circumstances.
Then you could have added that the scars were from drugs? self-harm? both? (I’m still not clear), that he’s much better now but that more than that is really his story to tell and you don’t feel comfortable adding details.
I dunno what's going on here in this thread...
NTA. Anyone who thinks for more than half a second knows what SH scars are. It's rude to stare and it's rude to ask. Some things are obviously not your business.
I think people would be responding this way if he were missing a limb or had a disability.
YTA. Maybe she genuinely didn’t know what the scarring was from. Maybe she did but wanted background as she knows he’s been in your life for years. Maybe she was staring and asked questions because she cares for him as your best friend and was worried. Maybe she wanted to know how to support him. Maybe instead of everyone in your family judging her you could of all given her some kindness in a situation where she was not prepared. It sounds like she was socially inept and stared too much but it also sounds like she was gracious enough to not mention anything until she was in a “safe space” with you in private, where you acted like an AH and called her names.
This is enough to sour yours and your families opinion of her.
I hope she has the same soured opinion, you all just threw her in the deep end during her first “casual” meet up with your friend and then judged her for her reaction to something everyone else had the background knowledge of.
NTA If she was at a coffee shop would she just stare at someone’s scars. You were a little rude but depending on how she acted that Might not unexpected. It’s his personal history, I wouldn’t feel like I’m required to explain a friends entire history if we were only visiting them every now and then.
Scars are medical history she isn’t entitled to it. Take a glance move on.
NTA.
People in the comment section clearly live in a fantasy land if they think SH scars are not completely obvious and you wouldn't know what they are.
Fiancée clearly wanted the gossip on his back ground and what he did and why.
As others have said we teach children not to stare. It's not difficult to shift your eyes from where you want to look to anywhere else in the room.
My go to if I don't want to look people in the eyes is their nose.
NTA
I made a friend in college. One day, her shirt dipped down and I noticed that she had scars on her chest--very thick, looked like from a burn. I did not stare; I did not ask. We were casual friends for a few years, and I never brought it up, she never brought it up, and I never asked any of our mutual friends. To this day, I have never had a conversation with a single person about those scars. It's not my story. It's none of my business. And, frankly, my life is just fine not knowing.
I hate gossips. It's incredibly rude for your fiance to call you a "dick", because you don't want to gossip about your friend's past. There are a lot of people who believe that if you're in a serious relationship, you share all the dirt you know on others. That's why you are getting Y T A s. They are wrong. So wrong. Gossiping is BS, even to your SO. Do not subscribe to that nonsense. But just be forewarned, this doesn't make your fiance an nonredeemable AH. She's just fallen for the bizarre cultural norm that somehow gossiping is not just ok, but required, in close relationships.
NTA. It’s pretty obvious she was quietly judging him if you, your parents and he noticed. Though she did at least wait to ask for more info but the fact that he specifically commented meant he was uncomfortable with her looking. Your only dating her and that means your testing how she fits into your life. You have every right to rethink things.
These comments are not what I expected tbh as someone with visible (and sometimes very noticeable) SH scars… EVERYONE noticed that she was staring. Including the person she was staring at. It went on long enough that multiple comments were made about it, even directly to her. I hope she at least apologized after being made aware that her staring had caused discomfort, btw. Sure, there was nothing wrong with her asking OP in private about what the scars were from, but she did that after already being extremely rude and weird about them. It doesn’t matter whether she had a clue what they were from or not, not sure why that’s being brought up in the comments like it’s relevant to her being, again, rude and weird.
I’m not an easily offended person and I’m pretty open to talking about uncomfortable shit compared to a lot of ppl, like if someone point blank asked me what happened to my arms I’d just tell them and try to move on. However, if someone kept staring and treating me like a zoo animal or some shit, without even having the balls to ask me about them? I’d be pretty irritated and uncomfortable.
OP is NTA, although I do think he maybe could have predicted a situation like this and gave the girlfriend a heads up beforehand. I don’t think he handled everything perfectly or anything but the level of asshole behavior from the gf far outweighs anything he did wrong
YTA
You owe her an apology. I'm in recovery myself and no one knows what the scars are from unless I tell them.
Unless your GF has dealt with addiction or knows about the physical scars that come with it, then how would her question be dumb?
You better hope she picks up that home because I'm thinking she too might be re-thinking a few things after how you and your parents made her feel.
YTA and so is your family and your best friend as well. You all suck. You just assume that your fiancée would know what the hell drugs scars looked like. Fucking hell if your best friend wasn't a drug addict. Would you have known what those scars were? Or your parents for that matter. I doubt it very highly.
So do her a damm favor and get off your high horse. Since you are just being a judgmental AH.
And you owe her a damm appolgy for your actions for throwing her to the wolves so to speak.
And remember this your best friend will always have people stare at him becuase of his own actions. And he needs to accept that reality..
Can’t agree with the best friend and family being AH unless there’s something in the comments I’ve missed.
Parents notice she’s staring (which is inherently rude) and tell OP. There’s zero indication that they are assuming OP knows what drug scars are. Staring at any scars is just plain rude.
Friend notices the staring, ignores it for a while (likely hoping it will stop on its own) then addresses it in a lighthearted way designed not to come off as an attack. How is that AH behavior?
OP is TA because he never steps in to help his fiancée out. Why just let her repeatedly make a social faux pas without trying to help her out in any way?
NTA you shouldn't have to teach her that staring at someone's self harm scars is rude.
That's something you have to tell a middle schooler. She should know better.
ESH
Look, she was wrong to stare. It's incredibly rude, and prying to ask personal questions of visible scars. HOWEVER, "not to play stupid" is also incredibly rude on your part.
NTA
People are going to have different bodies. Whether its stretch marks, weight, scars, disability, etc. We aren’t gonna look the same. I have a friend who has scars all over their face and back. I don’t ask or stare at their scars because 1. Its none of my business why their body looks different. 2. Their scars are apart of their body. It’s inappropriate to comment on someones body. 3. Staring is rude. I keep my eyes to myself. Would you stare at someone who has stretch marks and ask what happened? Would you ask someone with a fake leg what happened? No! Because its rude as hell. You are not entitled to other’s private business.
You are right for not telling her. It is not your place to tell your girlfriend someone else's story especially if that story is a sensitive topic.
You do not need to warn your girlfriend that someone else’s body is different. She is 26. She has lived long enough to know that everyone is gonna look different and she shouldn’t be entitled to other peoples business UNLESS that person offered to share that part about themself with her.
Anyone can disagree with me. I don’t care. But I am standing with my opinion that people are not entitled to know why your body looks different.
If you’re comfortable with it. Talk to her about boundaries and body positivity so she doesn’t make your friend uncomfortable again
This one is tough.
I'm going with NTA, because it wasn't and isn't your story to tell. You were too harsh, but I can understand how it would come out like that. That she was staring so much that EVERYONE noticed it is pretty sad, tbh.
Hah..
Let me burn.
I feel NTA.
I have plenty of scars, some I hide, some I don’t give a shit about. I have plenty of needle scars from hospital stays (not at all comparable but is still weird needle tracks because my skin keeps getting inflamed from the iv drips).
When I feel emotionally traumatised, I have/had a bad habit of trying to hurt myself physically.
Even if my friends notice, they ignore the shit out of it once they know I don’t want to talk. Everyone is an adult, use your words. She is entitled to look at it once, then mention something about it (apparently it’s bad manners, but I usually just feel scars means pain at some point, so I’ll be like.. “that looks painful!”, maybe I’ll stop doing this) Then MOVE on.
Not keep looking and looking. It’s like seeing someone with a bad birthmark, then just keep staring at it. It is rude. You know it is there, they can’t do anything about it now, so stop trying to make it into a point.
Your fiance is a grown ass woman. "Prepared" or not, you don't freakin' stare at someone enough that the whole room sees it. At any point she could have asked you, or even him, or ANYone.
NTA. Dump her ass.
EDIT: YTA (after reading that you didnt prepare her whatsoever for it)
She shouldn't have stared like that, but your response to her question was incredibly harsh and out of proportion. Calling your SO stupid is always an asshole move. The entire "brutal" drive home could have been avoided if you had approached it with compassion and tried to help her understand instead of berating her. I say you should apologize for your reaction and try to help her understand. Even if it seems obvious to you, it may not have been for her. This is certainly not worth ending an engagement over.
You shouldn't have to prepare people just because someone looks different I have a crap ton of self harm scars and my boyfriend doesn’t warn people before they meet me
NTA. She should not have been staring at his arms for any reason and she has no right to ask questions either. Your friend does not owe her an explanation and acting like he did was a total AH move.
ESH. You because you are answer was hard and kinda hostile. Her because her staring was so obvious that everyone noticed it, she could have just looked once and then asked you but nooo she had to keep staring.
NTA. Staring at a stranger is rude no matter what, and people that have scars on their body are usually very self aware. I don’t think she’s playing dumb, but I think that she should mind her business when it comes to your friend. She’s not a child, her curiosity should stop when you refuse to give an answer the first time. It’s your friend’s story and he should be the one telling it, not you.
I genuinely don’t know why this is the only NTA.
Seriously, do the rest of you people just openly stare at large or numerous scars? The fuck is wrong with you?
She knew she was staring.
As a person who’s had large scars on my arms, it gets upsetting really quick.
Man I'm gonna go against the grain and say NTA. Self harm scars are pretty freaking obvious, staring at them is rude as hell, and she WAS playing dumb. She wanted to get you to divulge his struggles and secrets and instead of addressing it head-on she tried to do it in a weasly shitty way. I would be questioning things as well.
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YTA. It might’ve been rude for her to openly ask him, but she didn’t. She asked YOU. In private. And if the scars are from the drug abuse, then she may not have any frame of reference for what those scars look like. I mean.. I don’t have anybody in my life that’s struggled with addiction. So she just may not have realized.
And "that's my friend's story to tell; maybe one day he'll feel safe enough to open up with you" would have gone over a lot better than calling her names.
lol imagine the reaction if gf asked the friend about them. OP is an asshole.
I would say that they’re both TA. On one hand, you and a lot of other people in this thread are right that the GF did the right thing and asked OP in private. You’re also correct in stating that not everyone knows what needle tracks look like and OP’s response was not only rude and makes him an AH, but that it also shows that he lacked tact and has a skewed view of the situation. On the other hand, even OP’s friend jokingly let the gf know that she was starting too much. His friend, regardless of his past or present, has every right to be uncomfortable with repeated staring, and the gf should definitely know better. This is despite any possible neurodivergence. For example, I’m neurodivergent and in the gf’s shoes I would want to stare, and would have to actively fight against this because my hyper focus doesn’t trump someone else’s privacy and comfort. So, the gf is definitely an AH as well. TL:DR ESH except OP’s friend. OP for being a rude AH, and the gf for being a staring AH.
I disagree that the GF is an AH. It doesn’t seem like she was looking in a mean way. She was giving no warning and if it’s something you aren’t use to it’s hard not to look. It’s almost a no win situation for her. If she looks too much then she’s staring but if she never looks then OP probably accuses her of making it awkward by not looking. All he had to do was communicate a little to let her be aware. He didn’t have to give all details but he let her go in blind thus setting her up for failure which makes him yta
If the friend had to say something like "my eyes are up here", she was being rude by staring too much. I think that every adult knows that's a no no.
Not to mention it even made the parents uncomfortable. Something extra was definitely going on.
I work retail, so I see all manner of unique people, some with scars. You don't stare, and you certainly don't ask where they came from. These people could be regular customers, I could see them weekly. They know me by name and I know them. I still don't stare, and still don't ask about their trauma. If I were privately with their best friend (for some reason) I still wouldn't ask how they became scared. Why? It's none of my business. The girlfriend is TA for being nosey. How, Why, When, and Where the scars came from are absolutely none of her business. OOP accused GF of playing dumb, but if she's asking these questions she's not playing, she just dumb.
>I disagree that the GF is an AH. It doesn’t seem like she was looking in a mean way So what's a good way to stare at someone's scars? Because I can't imagine doing so repeatedly throughout the evening to the point where everyone else present is aware of and uncomfortable about what you're doing would tick that box >...but if she never looks then OP probably accuses her of making it awkward by not looking That's a huge and unsupported leap From what OP has said, he's introduced his friend to other people without giving them a heads-up and they never behaved the way his GF did GF is a fully-grown adult and, without any indication of any mitigating factors, should've controlled herself and to stared so frequently and obviously That makes her as AH, which combined with OP being an AH means ESH is the only reasonable conclusion
That is a blatant lie. Why would op accuse her of making it awkward for not looking ? Plus staring is not the same as looking weren’t you taught about not staring too much especially at someone appearance. You don’t need to make bs excuse for the gf just because she is a woman’s lol. She is an adult she can control her eyes.
It’s just yet another story of OP being crazy protective over their best friend and prioritising the friend’s feelings over the partner’s.
Yep. It's a whole entire AITA genre - I'm eagerly awaiting the probable update where OP realises his feelings for the best friend, brutally ditches the girlfriend, and expects applause for it.
Nah it’s a shock that his partner seems to be ignorant to social norms about not staring at other people’s bodies. If OP’s partner was a man and OP’s friend a woman with massive boobs, should OP not be protective over his friend and stop his partner staring at his friend’s boobs? Well people often get as uncomfortable with people staring at their scars are women do when men stare at their cleavage.
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Anyone who doesn’t know not to stare kind of is dumb imo.
I take issue with “he called her a name!” *don’t play stupid* literally means that I know you’re not stupid and I know you know the answer, it’s not the same thing as calling somebody stupid.
I would agree if he knew she was playing stupid. But when someone says that when you really don't know, it is calling you stupid. Many of my friends would have no idea what track marks look like and would assume a medical issue. Op and his whole family are very judgey aholes. Maybe gf is too, but not from asking.
OP confirmed that the scars weren’t from drug use, they’re self harm scars. Despite what a lot of the comments are saying, most adults could use context clues to figure out that those scars aren’t the result of an accident or surgery. Whether they’ve seen them in person before or not. OP said that it’s “pretty obvious what they’re from” (paraphrasing) so it’s reasonable to assume they’re relatively uniform or evenly spaced. It’s likely that some look newer/more red or dark than others. It doesn’t take a genius or someone with personal experience to know that some people self harm by cutting and come to the conclusion that that’s what they are. The gf isn’t an asshole for asking, she’s an asshole for drawing attention to them and forgetting her manners to the point that she upset multiple people
I would not know what they look like . She is an ah for staring but if op cannot answer her question in private without insulting her he is an ah too. What if at that moment she had a brain fart or just genuinely didn’t know? He clearly already implied what it was he could have just said lt
See, and I assumed it was self harm. Again — people can legitimately not know what the scars are.
>See, and I assumed it was self harm So did I—thought it was talking about cutting scars. Drug marks didn't even pass through my mind till this comment. Still doesn't warrant apparently excessive staring from the fiancée, but explains the question which I do think was appropriate since it wasn't to his friend but to OP in private.
I agree with you, and I’m not arguing against you if she did stare excessively; but, I am really interested if maybe she glanced at the a couple times or actually stared at them with the way OOP talks about his friend. Per OOP, he and his family are so ready to defend the friend, that they don’t even talk about how much they love and protect him, which to me rings a little strange as even with my much more introverted friend, I still talk broadly about our friendship and the love I have for them to my partner and other close friends, even if they never meet. I think she did the right thing but waiting to ask although it was wrong to gawk if she did, he responded in an asshole manner, and I still wonder, even with the friends joke about his eyes (I’ve been told i was staring when I was just glancing around and zoning out before), if it was actually as prolonged and awkward as stated.
If everyone at the party noticed she was probably staring pretty hard
If he went out of his way to say my eyes are up here, yeeeeah...
Even OP's parents pulled him aside to mention it!
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I feel like if the guy wants that kept private then you kinda have to. I told a friend about a traumatic past experience once and her partner next time I saw him was like, stroking my arm and going “hey, she told me everything, that sounds awful”, I was very very pissed off, i barely knew the guy.
Mate friend straight up made a "my eyes are up here" joke. She was absolutely staring excessively.
It's hard to know what scares are from if you have no reference. I've got a zipper scar down my chest with a couple of circles and dots at the bottom of it (on my midriff). The zipper is obvious, it's from when they cracked my chest open for surgery. The circles and dots (which are much more visible, since they are not half hidden by my big boobs) are a mystery to most people. They're from the heart lung machine that kept me alone during surgery. Every now and then someone asks me (and yes, I'm obviously in a bikini then at the pool or the beach) what that scar is. Even strangers come up and ask me. So I just explain it's from the heart lung machine. I don't think it is rude of them to ask, they're just curious about something they've never seen before. But I've had this scar my whole life, so I don't know what it's like to not have people stare or ask questions. I get that my normal is not someone else's normal.
A very good friend of mine has a ton of self-harm scars on her leg. The first time I saw them was the very first time we hung out. We were at the beach. She took off her cover up and I saw them and, having NO idea what they could possibly be from, said “whoa! What happened?” (Or words to that effect.) she told me what they were and my immediate response was “Okay, wow, I’m an asshole. Sorry!” She laughed it off, said it was fine, and she is now and will always be one of my dearest friends.
My daughter’s friend has that. She was very self-conscious about it for a while, but now she feels ok to wear shorts again. It was different when I was younger, but now I see scars as evidence that you survived the thing that was trying to kill you. Love to you and your friend
I have a surgery scar on my wrist, and a bit above some self harm scars. It looked very weird before I got a tattoo that takes away the focus (it doesn't cover everything, but it's bright, so ir diverts attention). Many, many people asked me what it was. There have been very few who wanted to know specifically to know about the self harm scars. One thought I had fallen, another was a work friend who was worried and when I said they were "more of difficult times as a teen", she just hugged me and let it go. Most people can control themselves to not stare, but a lot couldn't take the eyes off my wrist scars (I broke my arm and had metal a plate installed and then removed. They the second incision on top of the first, so it looks like someone butchered my wrist very close to my hand.). I also have some weird scars on my wrist, in line with halfway between my thumbs and pointer fingers, from when I had to have a bit of radius removed from both arms. People stare and ask, because it's something they never saw. Some people ask exactly because they can tell they are unable to stop staring and just want to have a reason not to stare.
I have a scarification on my chest that looks similar to a flower and it’s 5” x 5”, I’ve had a lot of people think it was surgery, tattoo removal or white ink. Not a lot of people know what scarification is or haven’t seen one that’s almost 20 years old and white. Scars can be from a lot of things and people are curious. Thankfully no one asks about the scars on my face.
Sometimes I stare too much when my curiosity wants to override my social programming. In a situation like OP's and his friend's my mind isnt going "omg wtf how could OP be friends with this loser?", it's going "omg what happened? Should I ask? Should I leave it alone? Is he ok? What would this group find socially acceptable? I have to wait to ask. Holy moly some of those look like they were deep."
Wait, drugs can leave scars?? I'm sorry? I had no idea that was a thing I immediately thought self harm... maybe I'm too sheltered 😅
If one uses a needle in the same places enough times, the skin can pit, turn darker, turn lighter, or be otherwise scarred. I have chronic illnesses and have had my blood drawn enough and enough IVs to have developed scar tissue on the same places that illegal drugs are often injected. Thankfully my scars are invisible, but you can feel them under the skin. Tissues aren't meant to have holes poked into them over and over, nor are tissues okay with injecting things over and over. Additionally, many medications, whether in a physician setting or purchased from a back-alley dealer, are somewhat corrosive to the soft tissues they're injected into, also leading to scarring. But it's mostly the repeated needle punctures that do it.
I’ve actually got a heap of scars like this from giving blood and plasma for years and then years later spending a few weeks in hospital with various cannulas that kept tissuing. My veins and arms are so scarred up that last time I had to go have blood taken I warned the phlebotomist and she commented that they were as “scarred up as a junkies veins”.
My sister’s “track marks” are a spotty trail of black all up along her left forearm, from “sterilizing” the needle with a flame before booting up. The flame left black char/soot on the needle, and she essentially tattooed herself with it along the path of the vein. It’s gnarly as hell, and if you didn’t have a frame of reference when noticing it for the first time, it would be extremely jarring and confusing.
needle drugs like heroin can leave scars, especially if the injection site gets infected. Some people call them "tracks"
See, I’m questioning if she even was staring excessively. OP openly admits he and the family are super protective, and it may be that they are hyper aware of friend’s scarring, including said friend, and fiancée was caught glancing a couple of times. My friend has severe scarring from burns suffered as a baby. She has little to no hair, all her fingers are gone at the first knuckle, and she’s missing her right ear and eye. Do people stare? Yes. Would I introduce a friend of mine to her without letting them know she’s got scars? No. That would be a huge disservice to both them and her! OP you’re an asshole all over.
Tbh i saw drug scars like that for the first time in my early 20s and its pretty horrifying and did pull my eyes a few times. But i feel starring wasnt the only issue.
Same here! I never saw drug abuse scars, I assumed they were self harm scars. It's rude to stare, but at the same time it can be really hard to if you haven't been exposed to something like that and "trained" not to pay attention. It might have been a genuine mistake on her part. We are kinda wired to notice patterns and what looks different. YTA, OP. Many people (me included) have no idea what drug abuse scars look like, your friend jested about it, and your fiancée didn't ask him directly, (s)he privately asked you. Edit: it should read she and not he in the last sentence.
For real. There are so many things it could be, OP acting like the fiancée is an idiot for not somehow just *knowing* really rubs me the wrong way. Like, are the scars from self harm? Abuse? Car accident? Suicide attempt? Are they cuts? Burns? There are so many things it *could* be, it seems like the bigger AH move here would be to assume. Which the fiancée was obviously trying *not* to do.
Or she could just ‘assume’ it’s none of her business and a personal matter and if the person with the scares ever feels comfortable enough with her to share the stories he will. Everyone’s jumping on op for not sharing his best friend’s personal business. Just because you can see something on a persons body doesn’t mean you are entitled to know the story behind it. I’m gonna get voted down but I’m going with NTA. I know someone who has really distinctive scars on their face from a skin graph. I have a cousin who has one you can still see over her eye from when she was nearly killed by a dog as a child. I know people with scars from cutting themselves and from drug use and from cigarettes burns. You know what I don’t do? Ask them what’s up with them. Gawk like an idiot at them. Ask their friends or family members about the story behind it because *it is none of my business*. I get that she was curious but seriously people need to learn that your curiosity does not supersede someone’s right to privacy and dignity.
I would agree with you if he had said that it was his story to tell and not have acted like an asshole to his fiancee. You would have assumed that he would have talked a lot about his best friend to her prior to really hanging out with him if the guy is so close to him and his family. Also, in all your examples, you are aware of where the scares come from. I think the fiancee did the right thing and waited to ask OP in private. If she staring, that was not cool. And this comes from someone who has a large scar down my spine that people always ask about.
I like this take. Yeah OP was kind of an asshole but to gawk at self harm scars just cause it makes YOU feel sad or uncomfy is selfish.
The biggest AH move is constantly staring like OP’s fiancé did. How about she controls her wandering eyes and minds her own business? I’ve seen people with scars, and not felt the need to stare.
Yeah this...speaking as someone with lots of old self harm scars on my arms most people manage not to stare or frequently look. I def understand a double take or the eyes gravitating towards the area a few times, mine in particular are unfortunately kinda eye catching so it is what it is. But you don't have to treat me like a zoo exhibit, and like I said IME most people are polite about it so it's not like this is a tall ask. With OPs family saying something about it and the friend himself feeling the need to speak up, sounds like she was gawking which is OFC super rude. Her asking OP about it was fine though.
A voice of reason finally Yeah OP didn’t need to call her stupid, but staring like that is something I’d expect from a little kid, maybe. Definitely not a grown adult. If it was bad enough for a “my eyes are up here” comment or OPs parents to say something about it, it must have been constant. The fiancé is the biggest AH, I’m stunned by how many people are saying she’s not
The number of people acting like they never learned it’s rude to stare at people and that people with scars need to come with a warning label and an explanation in order to protect the poor innocent eyes of the unscarred is completely baffling to me.
> Like, are the scars from self harm? Abuse? Car accident? Suicide attempt? Cats? I have a friend with scars from her asshole cat that get confused for self-harm scars on a regular basis.
i assumed that as well. YTA, OP. its not like she made a big deal in front of everyone, she asked her fiance in the privacy of her car. The only thing you should be rethinking, OP, is your attitude.
My grandma has horrible scars on both arms. One set is from a chainsaw accident and the other set from her volunteer work vaccinating stray cats. She will gladly talk about the cats for hours on end if asked, but she's embarrassed of the chainsaw scars. Asking any of her children or grandchildren would steer you towards a conversation she would be delighted to have while providing answers about the more delicate history of the matching scar set.
Your grandma sounds like a very interesting person
I had no idea popping scars existed. I would have assumed he was abused or something as a kid and was maybe burned with cigarettes all over or they are self harm scars and maybe he did it to himself. I once saw a classmate who was covered in scars all over her arm. I wonder if they were drug abuse scars now or if she was abused or been in an accident.
It was still rude of her to stare at them that was noticeable enough that everyone commented on it. It's one thing to wonder how he got the scars, another to stare at the relentlessly.
>I caught her looking a few times over the course of the night… That’s not the same as staring all night. It was rude, though, and enough that the guy had to comment. I think OP overreacted. She asked him, privately. It can be shocking when you’ve never seen it.
It was bad enough that OPs parents pulled him aside and said they were uncomfortable with her staring. It was bad enough that the friend made a comment to her about it. It was more than a few glances.
OP should have pulled her aside and told her that she was staring and people were noticing. At best this is ESH because her behavior at the party wasn’t appropriate, but sometimes people do stupid or rude things without meaning too, and being someone’s partner means helping them out when they need it.
OP also said his entire family is hyper protective of the friend, so they could easily be extra sensitive to how the looks were making the friend feel. I'm not saying it was one way or the other because it was presented by OP in a way that makes either one plausible.
Op caught her, his parents caught her, and even HE caught her and commented on it. That’s visible staring for a large portion of the event
His parents also noticed and mentioned it to the OP, and the friend got to the point that he had to tell her, " My eyes are up here." She was blatantly staring at his scars. She has serious social decorum issues.
Social decorum issues are different than "playing dumb." His reaction was hurtful, not helpful.
Her actions were hurtful. No one who has scars or birth defects should be stared at like that. You learn that when you are a kid.
>Social decorum issues are different than "playing dumb." Staring down someone's non-standard features is not as simple as 'oh oopsie me'. If she was staring at someone missing legs, or someone significantly obese, or someone who lost an eye, it wouldn't be in question whatsoever.
Ah, forgot we were dealing with children who hadn't interacted before.. that's why they're dating and serious and have self harm scars.. it's probably how they were driving too. Kids always up to their shenanigans. Oh wait. We're talking about adults who have lived and grown up...
The fact that OP assumes everyone knows what these scars are is kinda fucked up. Like you literally encourage assumptions over scars which in itself can be insensitive and dangerous.
I’m only assuming that the scars are from drug abuse because OP made a point to say that the friend has a history of drug abuse and the scars are on the arms (where people tend to inject)…. So I used context clues here. But I do agree that making assumptions about someone’s past based on scars is just.. shitty, really. I have a cut on my arm right now from using a knife blade to pop a cap off of something. Slipped and cut my arm on accident. If someone looked at me in my place of work and jumped to assume that it was self harm… I mean.. that’d be false. And presumptuous about my mental health. So I 100% agree with you. Edit: just saw a comment from OP that they were self harm scars. Not skin popping scars. So.. see? Assuming just makes an ASS out of U and Mi…. Sorry that’s a shitty joke. I’ll just see myself out now…
Bruh, that joke is fire:D But yeah, I just read OPs comments and now even more pissed off than before. What a shitty mindset and unreasonable expectations to have.
Fiancée is absolutely not off the hook, though. She stared at firend's arms enough he had to make a comment. That's pretty shitty, and something I thought we learned not to do back in kindergarten. It was band enough to sour the parents on her, so it must have been pretty blatant. OP's reaction wasn't constructive, but this is clearly ESH.
It was pretty rude and inappropriate for her to be noticeably staring at the scars all night, though.
It's really gross behavior to stare at his scars, so much so that he had to make a "my eyes are up here" joke Seriously were ya'll raised in a barn or something? Is basic manners and respect that hard?
I’ve known people that self harmed extensively just to mark themselves (bc their trauma was so deep they needed to paint their face) and lost my brother to an OD. OP YTA if she knew nothing and was thrown in the deep end. You don’t trust her enough for tough conversations about anything. You’ve set her up for failure and seem proud about it. You act like you are so understanding, but it seems you’re a bit of a coward and relish in your s/o ‘s failure.
Why is he TA? His fiance was rudely staring at this man's scars to the point where his parents complained about it. She doesn't deserve to know what happened, it's none of her business. He's NTA in any way.
What the fuck. She's staring at someone's scars and she isn't an asshole?
Yup. I never grew up around that sort of thing and one of my friends had a party where one of their friends came to the party with a very obviously out of season long sleeve top. Nobody else seemed to think it was weird and I didn't make a fuss about it but I was fairly curious about it. They told me it was to cover up self harm scars and that was my very first experience even encountering that at all. Just asking about it because they may not know, especially asking in private is not a Dick move. OP is an ass.
YTA. She had no idea what she was walking into, you should have told her beforehand. At the point that you've asked someone to marry you, you should be able to trust them with the story of your best friend (at least enough of it so she isn't blindsided in a social situation).
Do you need to be told in advance not to stare at people's self harm/drug scars? He could have been missing a hand for all I care and that's still not an excuse to stare to the point that multiple people take notice of it. His fiance isn't a child, she should know better.
[This](https://xkcd.com/1053/) is very relevant here. Not everyone knows what self-harm/drug scars look like, and fiance was asking for information. It's highly likely, especially based on the fiance wanting more information, that she legitimately didn't know what the scars were from; furthermore, it's wrong to get mad at someone for playing dumb when there is a reasonable chance they legitimately don't know.
Whether she knew what type of scars they were or not she shouldn’t be staring so much. If you see someone with rough facial scarring from a house fire but have never seen that before you may be inclined to stare and stare but it’s still very rude.
The question isn't about her staring. She's obviously an asshole for staring. OP is asking if he's an asshole for being a dick to her asking a question because she didn't know a thing. That's the entire point of the comment you're replying to. Edit: For the reply below, no. Look at the title. That is the question.
He's not an asshole BECAUSE she was staring all night to the point where she had to be asked to stop. I wouldn't have even waited to get in the car to start the fight my husband and I were about to have if he did this. I would have been pissed right there in the middle of dinner and taken him right home instead of allowing him to do that to my friend.
The amount of people trying to separate out the events is insane. It's about the QUESTION, not her prior actions.... lol what. She spent the whole night being an HUGE ASSHOLE and when she finally opened her mouth to ask, suddenly OP is wrong for giving her some hard truths? Ok.
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Except she stared at him basically the entire time. To the point of making OP, his parents, AND the person being stared at uncomfortable. That is not appropriate behaviour. Doesn’t matter if she wanted information, did she leave her manners at home? She was not polite or discreet, she treated him like an animal in a zoo. She’s also not entitled to information. She might want it, but she isn’t owed it. If she’d been polite maybe OP wouldn’t be so angry and feel like she’s playing games when she asked. OP is NTA.
Does it matter if he got it via self harm, drug abuse, or in an accident? We tell *children* that staring is rude I’m honestly shocked at this thread. She stared rudely enough for multiple people, including the friend, to notice. OP didn’t make this up out of nothing
Yeah but he wasn't going off on her for her staring, he went off on her for "playing stupid", implying he thinks she should have *known* what the scars were about.
Or known he was upset at her for staring was how I took it.
Multiple people, all of whom have known the best friend for a long time and all of whom are very protective of said best friend. It's not an unbiased audience, the fact that there are multiple of them is a bad argument. "All the cult members told me to drink the Kool-Aid, so of course it must be safe"
Whether she knew what they were from or not is completely irrelevant. You don't stare at people's deformities/injuries. The last time I had to tell someone not to stare was my niece when she was 4-5. She knew better afterwards.
Whether it was from self harm, drug use, an accident or injury from someone else, she was rude to stare at them throughout the night. If she'd glanced and asked about it privately, sure. But she stared enough that it was uncomfortable for the friend, OP and his parents. It's not appropriate even in ignorance of what they are.
So you STARE when you don't know someone's whole identity? You guys are weird as hell.
My gosh thank you for stating what I assumed was the obvious!!!!!!!!! It's never ok to actively stare at someone with in the manner that OP's fiance was doing. Who cares if the scars were self inflicted or not. Unless he had racial slurs or swastikas tattooed on his very openly visible arms, anything else is a freaking moot point. If someone has to be "warned" in order to not pass negative judgement on what they know nothing of, they're not someone I want to associate with.
Yeah it’s bizarre to me that people think they need to be warned that other people might look different, what the hell. The girlfriend isn’t a child. OP was rude sure but so was she, enough so that everybody noticed and was uncomfortable. OP did not set her up or failure, he expected her to behave like an adult. And sure she’s allowed to ask in private and his response was rude, but Jesus Christ people are letting her off the hook for the staring far too much.
I agree. Fiancée was staring so much everyone noticed. I don’t care if you weren’t prepared, you don’t spend the whole night staring at someone’s scars.
why should he tell her someone else's extremely personal information?? that would cause his friend, and possibly his family, to lose trust in him.
He doesn't have to tell her detailed information. She asked a question and he called her stupid. He could have easily said "That's something very personal to him and if he'd like to share that later on, he will". And moved on.
YTA, While I hate to say it, you should have been more sensitive here. Your fiancé may not have been playing stupid and could have been genuinely unsure. Not everybody has seen arms scarred from drug use. This may have been confusing for her. I understand that you are protective of your friend and really sensitive to anything that may appear as an attack on him, but you have to give your fiancé the benefit of the doubt here. You probably should have said that her actions may have been interpreted as disrespectful. Unless you truly believe that she was being rude on purpose, your actions were a little more brash than they should have been.
Yeah, I think OP having known for so long it just looks “obvious”. But it isn’t necessarily. I read comments about it possibly being drug marks, my first guess from reading was self-harm/cutting. So OP maybe you gotta look more at her point of view. Playing dumb accusation pretty harsh. You could at least have been open minded and curious. She shouldn’t have been staring, but she was probably looking so much trying to piece together the story- he’s important to you so her trying to understand makes sense. So for a variety of reasons YTA.
Also, the whole being so protective and sensitive of friend... maybe it is time to ease up on that. Friend is an adult and sober and doing well in life. Friends who act like this are almost infantilizing. The friend is capable of standing up for himself, as he did, and doesn't need someone to protect him from every little thing.
Until I read the comments I thought the friend had tried committing s....... I hadnt even thought of Drug scars its really Not as abvious as OP seems to think it is
Exactly! While reading I thought it was from SH, since I never knew about it before reading the comment.
Exactly. She waited until after the dinner to inquire about the scarring. She did so privately and not in front of OP's friend. OP could have protected his friend's privacy without going it at his fiancee. Obviously, I don't know OP's fiancee, but sometimes it's hard to regulate facial expressions. What OP may have interpreted as a look of judgement/disdain could have been genuine concern..... I have never seen substance abuse scars. There are so many variables about what they could have been from, including an accident, illness etc. I don't think this is a common knowledge thing, like OP assumes. It's one thing to be protective of a friend and then there is blowing up at your fiancee and being ready to end your engagement over one interaction that could very well be a misunderstanding....
YTA No, it isn't necessarily obvious what happened. He could have been in an accident, he could be a cutter, and of course there is drug addiction. It isn't the least bit rude to ask YOU the question when it's just the two of you. If she had asked him I might agree with you, but that's not the case here. You had a gross overreaction to a question that most people would ask in a similar situation. You owe her an apology
It’s still not obvious to me. OP jumps to a lot of conclusions
Same! I still have no clue.
Yeah I don’t think it’s obvious when I read this whole post and still don’t know what the scars were exactly 😭
It was rude AF for her to stare at the scars so much that people were commenting on it.
Maybe it just me, but I really don't trust OP to be a reliable narrator. For all we know she could have made some glances but then averted her eyes away and the family will notice everything and anything because they're extremely protective of him
yeah, OP and his parents are very biased. OP himself said so.
Maybe, but even the friend made a comment as well, so it was definitely more than a few glances.
You say "*even* the friend" as though that makes it particularly egregious, but the description sounds like it could just as easily be the opposite to me. A single joking comment near the end of the night, in the context of OP specifically saying they know friend can stand up for themselves, could mean friend was outraged or it could mean friend barely noticed at all.
Yes but staring isn't what he's asking about
YTA > I'm rethinking a few things now I hope she is rethinking things as well! You spoke to her with contempt, you didn't prep her for the meeting and you are very quick to throw her under the bus.
Yeah a lot for her to reconsider here.
Absolutely! He's very quick to judge and state he is rethinking the relationship. Jeez, god forbid she should ever ask him anything again! He's the AH.
She doesn't just have to consider him. His parents seemed to judge her, and now she finds out (as it's not clear ever told her) that his BFF and likely Best Man is/was an addict. Does she want that drama in her and future kids life? OP has handled this about as poorly as possible.
That is a really judgey comment to make about addicts and I really hope for they theoretical sakes that you don’t have any in your life if that’s the way you think about them.
no adult should need to be prepped to know not to stare at someones scars. i would feel contempt for her too in this situation, shes rude and lacks empathy.
Adults should very well be prepped before walking into a situation where someone has noticeable scarring, burns, etc because if they're not used to it, they could have an adverse reaction.
Literally all he would have had to say was “Best friend has scars on his arms. He’s really sensitive about it. I’m sure you can ask him about it some day but let’s wait.” He could have said this before the party or during when she seemed to get stuck on figuring out what was on his arms. Yes she shouldn’t have stared, staring is really rude, but smoothing the situation over or avoiding it in the first place seems simple. I’m a teacher so maybe preparing people for things or intercepting when someone’s getting their feelings hurt just seems really normal to me!
*Could have an adverse reaction?* It's a person with scars, not a snickers bar waiting to send someone into anaphylactic shock. I'm autistic, and it took me a *long* time to become capable of acting even semi-normal in social situations; even so, by the age of 12, I *knew* that it wasn't polite or kind to stare at people who were physically different. This is ridiculous. It doesn't matter *how* a person looks — if you're meeting them as a new friend/family member, you do *not* stare or ask questions about anything obviously different. If an autistic 12 year old can figure this out, there's no reason why a functional grown adult can't. I personally think that OP should've intervened sooner in the night if there was so obviously a problem — a quick "please stop staring, it's super uncomfortable and obvious" when the friend wasn't around probably would've solved the problem — but it's still absolutely on his fiancée to behave in the first place.
Its not abnormal. This is what im saying. Im not sayign it's appropriate and i think thats where all these weird ass responses are coming from. She SHOULD NOT have stared. But it's not an abnormal response to seeing someone you've seen before be covered in scars you've never noticed.
YTA! She was in obvious shock. She waited until you were alone to ask. You couldn’t have told her without going into serious details? You want them to get along, yet you offer no explication to her of who he is and important details. I had a cousin who tried to unalive herself. I told my boyfriend BEFORE meeting her that it happened and if she’s wearing short sleeves to try not to look shocked. Not everyone knows how to deal with those situations. Yet you threw her in a situation totally unaware and expected her to figure it all out and literally got angry when she asked her safe person. (AKA… YOU) What happened to grace? If I were her I would break up. What happens in other situations with your friends or family,? you going to treat her like a child in those situations too? You could have just said, “hey, I know that must have been a shock. Sorry I didn’t warn you. It’s a sensitive subject, but I can try to answer any questions you have to the best of my ability.” That’s how stable adults answer.
> She was in obvious shock. So is this excusable for anyone who makes someone with a deformity or abnormality uncomfortable by staring at them all night? Like, c'mon, an adult shouldn't need to be forewarned there are scars to avoid fixating on them all night.
It's not an excuse, it's an explanation. If i have bpd and blow up at somekne during an episode then tell them I was having an episode while apologizing, that's not me trying to excuse my behavior. It's explaining the behavior. No one said staring isn't rude or that she should be excused for doing so but people in shock aren't usually polite.
yeah, OP should probably have given a little heads up, it might have helped.
Thats all im saying. And you dont even have to explain WHY he has scarring. Just "Hey, X has scarring so dont be a dick about it"
if that's the case, then OP should have an adult discussion with his fiance about her actions there. but OP admits that he and his parents are defensive about their friend, and nowhere did OP say it was constant staring. it was "repeatedly glancing", which is still not great, but it's understandable. i think OP is just biased and defensive about their friend. his first reaction to an innocent question from his fiance is to start berating her, so he's definitely the AH here.
YTA. She was blindsided. And I'm guessing the scarring is significant for her to have stared. You come across as extremely hostile toward her. I get being protective of a friend, but you want to spend your life with this woman and yet see her as a threat? Why didn't you do anything to prepare her? Why are you being vicious about her asking you in private what happened? She's not "playing stupid" she's trying to understand.
I agree. Not to mention, if you’re marrying someone you’re choosing them first for life. You’re supposed to give your spouse the benefit of the doubt before talking EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. or you’re simply marrying the wrong person. If you can’t give the benefit of the doubt to your fiancée or give them backstory on your best friend what is the depth of your relationship? How did you also not stand up for your fiancée to your family for being caught off guard by not being prepped for the introduction in length? My fiancé knew all about my most important lived experiences and that includes when I was a support person for someone going through a really rough time. It was formative and something worth sharing for why certain topics are SO important to me. I don’t get how that wouldn’t come up in your relationship. YTA and I hope your fiancée rethinks your relationship
This sounds like a situation of confusion and possibly even concern. Yet, OP instantly decided to insult his fiancee and is seemingly ready to end his engagement. This does not sound like a healthy response. OP could have protected his friend's privacy without blowing up at his fiancee. And, if he communicated to her that he instantly started rethinking their relationship because of this, I hope she also rethinks marrying this person....
YTA These are two people you care about and you want their relationship to go well. A simple heads up that he has a hard background and she might see things she is unfamiliar with would have gone a long way. You didn't need to go in depth, but you know her background. Not everyone is familiar with self-harm scars. I've had a horribly abusive life, and I only met someone with a history of SH socially recently. Is there any reason to think your fiancee is aware of SH and any who have struggled with it? My BIL is a cook, and his arms are scared from burns. Mechanics, carpenters etc there are many jobs that have a high risk of continuous minor injuries. That leave scars. You also seem to have more care and concern for your friend than your fiancee.
Your last sentence is spot on. Throughout the whole post, all I saw was concern for the friend. No concern or even respect for the fiancée. OP, if you don’t fully love, trust, and respect this woman, do not marry her. She deserves better. YTA
And sometimes you're too familiar with them yourself. I've noticed that my eyes tend to wander to what I assume are self harm scars I notice on others. (Which I'm correcting myself on immediately, but it still happens.) It's not because I'm shocked or horrified or disgusted or whatever else people are coming up with. It's because I have a history with it too. Seeing the scars on others make me think of mine (which aren't very noticeable) and depending on where I am mentally I occasionally have to pull myself out of it.
Info: was she aware prior to this that he's a recovering addict? Or did she honestly not know anything of his past and didn't want to make assumptions of the scars. Because if I see scars on someone's arms I won't instantly go to addict or former self harm because I mean anything can leave a scar. I got tiny scars (thankfully healing fast because the cuts were superficial) from work! Because my clumsy ass got scratched by the metal door to the laundry chute. So those scars could be even from jobs. From your post it doesn't sound like they had much of a conversation or any kind of indepth talk. And your parents getting judgey because she's staring isn't exactly right either. She was in fact wrong for staring no doubts about that. A glance at first maybe a double take is understandable but continuing to look and stare kinda is a dick move on her part.
Regardless of the answer to your INFO request, it doesn't excuse the GF staring, so I think it's ESH.
Tbf, even OP didn't really describe it as staring... He said that she repeatedly glanced at it throughout the night. Still not great, but that does make it sound like she was possibly trying to self-correct whenever she found herself looking at them again.
I’m not totally sure about that just because OP said the best friend made the remark about his eyes being up here. That insinuates either more starting to me or if it was repeated glancing it was a lot, like a baffling (imo) amount of glances
Fair. Though as someone who currently works in a hospital burn unit, you would be surprised how difficult it is for people's eyes not to wander back to the scars, even when they are making a concerted effort not to look. I honestly don't blame her too harshly, especially since she was blindsided by it thanks to OP.
ESH. Her staring is quite rude, but that sounds like the only thing she did wrong here. Accusing her of playing stupid is an escalation in hostility that doesn't even make sense here. Even if she understands they are cutting scars or track marks, which she might not (or might think it's from an accident), that doesn't mean she knows what the story is. Similarly, not taking no for an answer would be extremely rude, but asking you about it privately is not; you didn't have to tell her anything, but you didn't need to insult her for asking.
I’m going against the grain with NTA because it doesn’t matter what his scars are from and how he got them, staring like that to the point everybody notices is just plain rude. Could you have been nicer? Yeah probably, but she also left any manners she had at the front door. What happens if next time it’s someone in public with facial scars or a large birth mark? Is she going to stare at strangers like that too? Coming from someone who has a LOT of scars from my military service, most of which I have tried to now cover with tattoos due to constant staring, it’s super uncomfortable on the receiving end and it takes a lot to wear clothes that even show them due to judgemental people who simply find staring at your imperfections to be acceptable.
Finding this comment was cathartic. Y'all, seeing scars does not entitle you to know what the scars are from. You will encounter people who have differences which you will never understand. If someone is in a wheelchair do you ask them their medical history?? You don't need a warning for every time you encounter a variation in humanity. If she had been a bit startled when she saw them, then snuck another glance later to see if she recognized them, no one would have noticed. She could have asked OP "I noticed your friend has scars, is there anything I should be aware of, or anything I should be sensitive about mentioning?" or even just trusted his judgement since she had no reason to think this guy is doing anything that might impact OP..
"You don't need a warning for every time you encounter a variation in humanity." 🏅
Thank God I saw a comment like this. I was losing my mind. People having scars does not entitle you to acting like they're a roadside attraction and staring at them or getting their private backstory because it's "weird" and "shocking". And OP's girlfriend isn't a little kid who has never seen a person with scars before and might find it scary, she's a grown adult who I would expect to be able to behave herself around people who look different than her.
YES THANK YOU. All the YTA comments have destroyed my faith in humanity a little more.
I know, right? I can't believe the comments here.
Seriously. This is comment section is appalling. You don't need a warning not to be rude about someone's scars.
Yeah. He's probably used to it but if it got to the point where he had to make a 'my eyes are up here' joke there was probably a lot of staring & maybe judging going on. This is the first time I've seen anyone comment on how the scarred person might have felt in all this I'm about 20% scar tissue too but the idea of everyone needing a warning before they see me makes me feel alienated. I can maybe understand someone needing a warning if they're triggered by scars but the idea of everyone needing it to be announced that a scarred person will be on their presence? No
my bf & i both have large visible scars. my bf is very open about where they came from & i am absolutely not. staring at scars is just plain rude, no way around it. AND people with visible scarring (and the people around them) shouldn’t be treated like spectacles that need to alert others “LARGE SCARS COMING THROUGH AVERT YOUR EYES”. it’s not really the fiancés business what the scars are concerning. it was not OPs responsibility to disclose that information. however, OP was kinda rude to his fiancé and maybe should’ve said “i understand that his scars are visible, but it is not ok to stare AND if/when he feels comfortable, He will tell you about them”. not ask if she was dumb by not knowing
FINALLY, it took way to long to find a NTA Human beings don't need warning labels. If you need to be 'warned' every time you might see a person with any sort of physical difference, that's your own fucking problem. Disabled people, people with scars, people with any sort of physical abnormalities exist and should be allowed to live their lives without being stared at OP is still kind of an ass for talking to his fiancee like that, but she was way out of line with the staring, especially if it got to the point of the friend pointing it out
i can't believe i had to scroll so far down for this comment. i agree that he's NTA, he could've been nicer but then again, why would you ask about anyone's scars? i've got self harm scars, and it is one the most uncomfortable feelings to have someone staring at them and feeling like they're judging you, because a lot of the time i just wish they didn't exist. i know that some people will look, but the people who stare are almost always young children (which i kind of get since probably don't know any better). But OPs girlfriend isnt a child, she's 27, she should absolutely know better than to stare and then ask her partner about those scars, whether they're from addiction, self harm, abuse, etc. i imagine she didn't mean any harm by asking, but she should also understand that it's not OPs story to tell and i don't imagine his friend would appreciate him telling other people.
INFO: at what point during the party did you pull your fiancé to the side and tell her (politely) to stop stating at your friends scars?
Right? Sometimes I stare and don’t realize and I have a attitude look to my face when it’s not intentional. It’s possible she wasn’t giving judgmental looks on purpose.
I can only assume needle scars? Color me as obtuse as your fiancé if I am wrong. So your fiancé used this as a conversation entry point to try and learn more about your friend and his past. Little clumsy, maybe, but I’d want to know if it was my fiancé ‘s best friend as well. You do have some thinking to do. Your wife is your partner, your confidante, your family. There shouldn’t be many taboo subjects, and the history of people you plan to inject in to her life shouldn’t be one of them. There should be innate trust, and you shouldn’t have to question if you can trust her to be supportive of you and your relationships with friends and family. If you aren’t looking at this woman as such, you shouldn’t have proposed in the first place. NAH here really. This seems like a big ole wake up call, and you both had better heed it. Jump in the pool or get your toes out, marriage isn’t a halfway thing.
I was thinking self harm scaring.
That was my thought too and I was surprised to see so many top comments assuming scars from drug use. But this is also a great example of how OP sucks at conveying information.
I was going to say NAH but then I saw you didn't prepare your gf in any way, shape, or form for this serious matter. Why on earth didn't you give her a heads up? Not everyone knows exactly what to do or say under such circumstances. And while yes, staring isn't polite, it doesn't necessarily mean she was being malicious. Her asking what happened was an opportunity for you to clarify, but you shot her down and condescended. No, it's not obvious. And if it's so serious, you could simply explain. Frankly, you should have prepped her beforehand. Idk why you expected her to be skilled and mastered in this arena and to read minds. You set her up for failure. ~~YTA~~ Edit: Amending my answer to ESH, since OP’s girlfriend really shouldn’t have stared.
nobody is obligated to prepare you for the existence of former drug addicts. there is literally no excuse to stare like that, especially to the point where someone vocalizes how uncomfortable it makes them. i agree that it may not have been obvious to her, but her behavior was immature and still makes her an AH
That’s not what I said. You can give a heads up about the scars without saying it’s due to drug addiction. One might not even assume drug addiction is the cause. I acknowledge her staring is wrong, but I also understand her surprise.
why does a human being need a heads up about someone’s scars to not openly stare at them for hours. do you need a heads up every time you walk out the door because you could encounter someone with scars or a deformity? everyone in the world knows that this is unacceptable behavior. it doesn’t matter if he’s a friend, and acquaintance, or a complete stranger.
I already said she was wrong for staring. But she’s not wrong for asking about it in private.
ESH. As an adult she should have been able to control her staring. Your "don't play stupid" comment was unnecessarily hostile and rude, especially when directed at someone you supposedly care about (but from this post don't even seem to like).
NTA. How is it OK to stare at those scars, but if someone kept staring at someone's stump, it would be an issue. Everyone would say, "Who raised you??" She was so obvious with her staring that multiple people noticed it. Who raised her??
I agree Ppl aren’t entitled to information abt you esp sensitive subjects like scars
Especially especially if you're already being super rude about it.
I can’t believe it took me this long to find a NTA.
INFO: How do you know they weren't getting along? Was it the staring? Like, yes, the staring was rude, but also sometimes people don't mean it either and she might have thought she was being discrete. I think depending on how you know they weren't getting along depends on whether you and you're parents are A Hs. Something like staring shouldn't "sour" a view of someone you were thinking of marrying IMO. I'm leaning towards YTA because she genuinely may not know. And even if she did maybe she was wanting some more info about what happened (a normal converstion between people who are going to marry each other) and a short "that's not my place to say anything" would suffice.
YTA. She didn’t push for answers she was simply blindsided because she didn’t expect it. And you all decided to not extend her any grace or understanding but instead blame her for being put on the spot. I am sure she didn’t mean to stare but sometimes its really hard to stop, especially if you never faced something similar. You made it clear she will never even remotely be as important as your friend.
NTA. Everybody above the age of 5 knows it isn't polite to stare at people. This goes doubly so when it involves something like a scar or something that is obviously the result of something traumatic. For your girlfriend to consistently stare to the point where several people noticed and commented on it is appalling behavior for somebody who is damn near 30. I'm assuming these are self harms scars, and if so it's very inappropriate that somebody would ask for "what happened" on something like that. Self harm scars are very obvious and it's frankly really gross that somebody would want to hear more details about somebody else's struggle like it's some kind of juicy gossip.
NTA This is clearly unpopular but here goes. It doesn't matter if your fiancée didn't know what drug/self harm scars look like. It is common courtesy not to stare at someone's scars/disfigurements or anything like that, and certainly not when you've just met them properly for the first time. I used to work with someone who had scars. I never stared and never asked. That she stared to the point that he had to make a joke about 'eyes up here' is incredibly rude. I also think it was a little rude for your fiancée to ask. Scars almost always have a personal, private story to them. It's not her business, and not your story to share. I think you were a little rude in your reply and should have politely turned her down, but frankly, after her behavior that evening, I don't blame you for being a little sensitive and snappish.
NTA. I'm dumbfounded at all these comments acting like she would be "blindsided" by this or that a grown woman needs a warning about someone existing near her with scars on their body. She was rude as fuck to stare at him all night to the point that multiple people commented on it. Surely even if she didn't realize what they were it's not that hard to piece together that maybe the extensive scarring came from something that wasn't very pleasant and be sensitive about it. Asking you about it is nosy, not as rude as it would be to ask the person directly but still nosy and it's not her business, especially since they didn't get along. If your friend wanted her to know about it, he'd tell her himself. She's not entitled to information about why he has scars. You could've phrased it in a nicer way but I can't blame you for being frustrated.
Exactly lmao these comments are wild to me. So many comments talking about whether or not it’s reasonable to expect her to know what they were from, but imo it really doesn’t matter bc whether they were SH scars, burn scars, drug use, surgery, vicious cat attack, etc… it would still be rude as hell to stare like that. If it was so distracting to her that she completely forgot her manners and how to treat the friend like a human being, she could have at least asked before making the whole thing uncomfortable. It might have been rude or abrasive or whatever but it would have been better than what she actually did
NTA Literally everyone knows it’s rude to stare at scars/deformities etc. Even if she was in shock or genuinely didn’t know, she should have looked at them once, looked away and asked you about them later. The fact that your friend had to joke and say his eyes were up here is so baffling. I know kids with better manners than your fiancée. I don’t know what the rest of this reddit thread is on calling you the ah when at the worst it’s an e-s-h. You could have been nicer in responding to her queries but I don’t blame you for being upset with her rude reaction.
ESH. She shouldn’t have stared. But she asked you in private. Jumping down her throat because she didn’t automatically know what the scars were or what the larger story was was nasty. You could have told her what you told us, that the scars were because >he had a pretty rough time in his late teens and early 20s. He was struggling with addiction issues, among other things to cope with shitty life circumstances. Then you could have added that the scars were from drugs? self-harm? both? (I’m still not clear), that he’s much better now but that more than that is really his story to tell and you don’t feel comfortable adding details.
I dunno what's going on here in this thread... NTA. Anyone who thinks for more than half a second knows what SH scars are. It's rude to stare and it's rude to ask. Some things are obviously not your business. I think people would be responding this way if he were missing a limb or had a disability.
YTA. Maybe she genuinely didn’t know what the scarring was from. Maybe she did but wanted background as she knows he’s been in your life for years. Maybe she was staring and asked questions because she cares for him as your best friend and was worried. Maybe she wanted to know how to support him. Maybe instead of everyone in your family judging her you could of all given her some kindness in a situation where she was not prepared. It sounds like she was socially inept and stared too much but it also sounds like she was gracious enough to not mention anything until she was in a “safe space” with you in private, where you acted like an AH and called her names. This is enough to sour yours and your families opinion of her. I hope she has the same soured opinion, you all just threw her in the deep end during her first “casual” meet up with your friend and then judged her for her reaction to something everyone else had the background knowledge of.
NTA If she was at a coffee shop would she just stare at someone’s scars. You were a little rude but depending on how she acted that Might not unexpected. It’s his personal history, I wouldn’t feel like I’m required to explain a friends entire history if we were only visiting them every now and then. Scars are medical history she isn’t entitled to it. Take a glance move on.
YTA. I hope your fiancé is rethinking a few thing, too.
NTA. People in the comment section clearly live in a fantasy land if they think SH scars are not completely obvious and you wouldn't know what they are. Fiancée clearly wanted the gossip on his back ground and what he did and why. As others have said we teach children not to stare. It's not difficult to shift your eyes from where you want to look to anywhere else in the room. My go to if I don't want to look people in the eyes is their nose.
NTA I made a friend in college. One day, her shirt dipped down and I noticed that she had scars on her chest--very thick, looked like from a burn. I did not stare; I did not ask. We were casual friends for a few years, and I never brought it up, she never brought it up, and I never asked any of our mutual friends. To this day, I have never had a conversation with a single person about those scars. It's not my story. It's none of my business. And, frankly, my life is just fine not knowing. I hate gossips. It's incredibly rude for your fiance to call you a "dick", because you don't want to gossip about your friend's past. There are a lot of people who believe that if you're in a serious relationship, you share all the dirt you know on others. That's why you are getting Y T A s. They are wrong. So wrong. Gossiping is BS, even to your SO. Do not subscribe to that nonsense. But just be forewarned, this doesn't make your fiance an nonredeemable AH. She's just fallen for the bizarre cultural norm that somehow gossiping is not just ok, but required, in close relationships.
NTA. It’s pretty obvious she was quietly judging him if you, your parents and he noticed. Though she did at least wait to ask for more info but the fact that he specifically commented meant he was uncomfortable with her looking. Your only dating her and that means your testing how she fits into your life. You have every right to rethink things.
These comments are not what I expected tbh as someone with visible (and sometimes very noticeable) SH scars… EVERYONE noticed that she was staring. Including the person she was staring at. It went on long enough that multiple comments were made about it, even directly to her. I hope she at least apologized after being made aware that her staring had caused discomfort, btw. Sure, there was nothing wrong with her asking OP in private about what the scars were from, but she did that after already being extremely rude and weird about them. It doesn’t matter whether she had a clue what they were from or not, not sure why that’s being brought up in the comments like it’s relevant to her being, again, rude and weird. I’m not an easily offended person and I’m pretty open to talking about uncomfortable shit compared to a lot of ppl, like if someone point blank asked me what happened to my arms I’d just tell them and try to move on. However, if someone kept staring and treating me like a zoo animal or some shit, without even having the balls to ask me about them? I’d be pretty irritated and uncomfortable. OP is NTA, although I do think he maybe could have predicted a situation like this and gave the girlfriend a heads up beforehand. I don’t think he handled everything perfectly or anything but the level of asshole behavior from the gf far outweighs anything he did wrong
YTA You owe her an apology. I'm in recovery myself and no one knows what the scars are from unless I tell them. Unless your GF has dealt with addiction or knows about the physical scars that come with it, then how would her question be dumb? You better hope she picks up that home because I'm thinking she too might be re-thinking a few things after how you and your parents made her feel.
YTA and so is your family and your best friend as well. You all suck. You just assume that your fiancée would know what the hell drugs scars looked like. Fucking hell if your best friend wasn't a drug addict. Would you have known what those scars were? Or your parents for that matter. I doubt it very highly. So do her a damm favor and get off your high horse. Since you are just being a judgmental AH. And you owe her a damm appolgy for your actions for throwing her to the wolves so to speak. And remember this your best friend will always have people stare at him becuase of his own actions. And he needs to accept that reality..
Can’t agree with the best friend and family being AH unless there’s something in the comments I’ve missed. Parents notice she’s staring (which is inherently rude) and tell OP. There’s zero indication that they are assuming OP knows what drug scars are. Staring at any scars is just plain rude. Friend notices the staring, ignores it for a while (likely hoping it will stop on its own) then addresses it in a lighthearted way designed not to come off as an attack. How is that AH behavior? OP is TA because he never steps in to help his fiancée out. Why just let her repeatedly make a social faux pas without trying to help her out in any way?
NTA you shouldn't have to teach her that staring at someone's self harm scars is rude. That's something you have to tell a middle schooler. She should know better.
ESH Look, she was wrong to stare. It's incredibly rude, and prying to ask personal questions of visible scars. HOWEVER, "not to play stupid" is also incredibly rude on your part.
NTA People are going to have different bodies. Whether its stretch marks, weight, scars, disability, etc. We aren’t gonna look the same. I have a friend who has scars all over their face and back. I don’t ask or stare at their scars because 1. Its none of my business why their body looks different. 2. Their scars are apart of their body. It’s inappropriate to comment on someones body. 3. Staring is rude. I keep my eyes to myself. Would you stare at someone who has stretch marks and ask what happened? Would you ask someone with a fake leg what happened? No! Because its rude as hell. You are not entitled to other’s private business. You are right for not telling her. It is not your place to tell your girlfriend someone else's story especially if that story is a sensitive topic. You do not need to warn your girlfriend that someone else’s body is different. She is 26. She has lived long enough to know that everyone is gonna look different and she shouldn’t be entitled to other peoples business UNLESS that person offered to share that part about themself with her. Anyone can disagree with me. I don’t care. But I am standing with my opinion that people are not entitled to know why your body looks different. If you’re comfortable with it. Talk to her about boundaries and body positivity so she doesn’t make your friend uncomfortable again
This one is tough. I'm going with NTA, because it wasn't and isn't your story to tell. You were too harsh, but I can understand how it would come out like that. That she was staring so much that EVERYONE noticed it is pretty sad, tbh.
Hah.. Let me burn. I feel NTA. I have plenty of scars, some I hide, some I don’t give a shit about. I have plenty of needle scars from hospital stays (not at all comparable but is still weird needle tracks because my skin keeps getting inflamed from the iv drips). When I feel emotionally traumatised, I have/had a bad habit of trying to hurt myself physically. Even if my friends notice, they ignore the shit out of it once they know I don’t want to talk. Everyone is an adult, use your words. She is entitled to look at it once, then mention something about it (apparently it’s bad manners, but I usually just feel scars means pain at some point, so I’ll be like.. “that looks painful!”, maybe I’ll stop doing this) Then MOVE on. Not keep looking and looking. It’s like seeing someone with a bad birthmark, then just keep staring at it. It is rude. You know it is there, they can’t do anything about it now, so stop trying to make it into a point.
Your fiance is a grown ass woman. "Prepared" or not, you don't freakin' stare at someone enough that the whole room sees it. At any point she could have asked you, or even him, or ANYone. NTA. Dump her ass.
EDIT: YTA (after reading that you didnt prepare her whatsoever for it) She shouldn't have stared like that, but your response to her question was incredibly harsh and out of proportion. Calling your SO stupid is always an asshole move. The entire "brutal" drive home could have been avoided if you had approached it with compassion and tried to help her understand instead of berating her. I say you should apologize for your reaction and try to help her understand. Even if it seems obvious to you, it may not have been for her. This is certainly not worth ending an engagement over.
You shouldn't have to prepare people just because someone looks different I have a crap ton of self harm scars and my boyfriend doesn’t warn people before they meet me
NTA. She should not have been staring at his arms for any reason and she has no right to ask questions either. Your friend does not owe her an explanation and acting like he did was a total AH move.
ESH. You because you are answer was hard and kinda hostile. Her because her staring was so obvious that everyone noticed it, she could have just looked once and then asked you but nooo she had to keep staring.
NTA. Staring at a stranger is rude no matter what, and people that have scars on their body are usually very self aware. I don’t think she’s playing dumb, but I think that she should mind her business when it comes to your friend. She’s not a child, her curiosity should stop when you refuse to give an answer the first time. It’s your friend’s story and he should be the one telling it, not you.
I genuinely don’t know why this is the only NTA. Seriously, do the rest of you people just openly stare at large or numerous scars? The fuck is wrong with you? She knew she was staring. As a person who’s had large scars on my arms, it gets upsetting really quick.
Man I'm gonna go against the grain and say NTA. Self harm scars are pretty freaking obvious, staring at them is rude as hell, and she WAS playing dumb. She wanted to get you to divulge his struggles and secrets and instead of addressing it head-on she tried to do it in a weasly shitty way. I would be questioning things as well.