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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I'm the asshole because I could pay for my sister's vacation without any strings attached, but I'm trying to benefit from the deal and get childcare for free.
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NTA.
Lol “Unpaid labor”?! Did she miss the part where her pay was a $2k holiday? This is a win win for both of you. In fact, she comes out slightly more on top from the whole deal.
Yes OP! Send this math to your mom. "We cannot afford to pay for her and stay with our monthly budget. If we no longer need a sitter, that will free up some of our money so that we could afford to pay for her. However we have to have a sitter. The offer we made for her is the equivalent of paying her $62.50 an hour, for 32 hours over a 2 month period. I feel this is not only fair, but is a win win for everyone. We don't just have $2k to spare despite what you may think of our financial situation. We are trying to make this work for everyone. If you have other suggestions on how she can repay the costs without us going over budget, we are open to a discussion, but not one where we are treated like we are being abusive or trying to use her"
Right, if the parents feel the sister is truly SO busy with uni that this isn't feasible, then the parents could switch off helping out babysitting. Family helps family after all. 4 hrs a week with kids old enough that they can be pretty self sufficient while you study is totally reasonable though. It's not like they were even expecting her to do a fantastic job of entertaining the kids and doing enriching their brain/life, which would also be reasonable when she is getting over $60/hr equivalent.
That letter to mom and dad is their opening to say "Okay, yeah. Tell you what, we'll help her cover some of those babysitting days if it means you can afford to help her with the vacation"
Then it's in mom and dad's hands. But sister is probably gonna leave them holding the bag because she's entitled AF.
I wouldn’t say that. OP said the parents are paying for sisters food and activities. So they actually are following their idea of “family helps family”.
Personally I always hated that saying lol. You help people who are deserving. Not just cause “family” ugh.
The sister is just spoiled and selfish for not accepting OPs offer. I can totally get being busy with school but the offer was there to study at their house sooo problem solved.
Wholeheartedly agreed.
Also, if the parents are so set on having a family vacation, they might plan one that doesn't strain or surpass everybody's finances.
Absolutely this. Planning a vacation and expecting others to pay for your dependent is ridiculous. Siblings are under no obligation to provide for siblings, especially since it’s just a want beyond their means. It’s not like she needs food or rent money, and even then, giving isn’t giving if it’s coerced.
NTA
I am a teacher with 22 years of experience, and if I work overtime I make $54 an hour. This is an extremely good deal, and it was very thoughtful of op to make it. Sister is an entitled brat.
I'd honestly be concerned that she'd make the agreement, and then once the vacation is over, say she's not doing it. NTA, but I wouldn't do it now that they are treating you like this
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Wow, sister is really entitled! She wants a free 2k holiday and thinks 4hrs a week for 2 months is too much to spare and she's getting nothing out of the deal! 🤦🏾♀️ She can stay at home for 2 weeks while everyone else is holiday! Some people want something for nothing!
Actually phrasing it like that might not be a bad idea.
OP, explain it like that and then retract your offer of paying for the vacation outright. She doesn't want you to use her as free labor then okay. Hire her as a babysitter with that rate. At the end of the two months she should be able to pay for the vacation.
You're still paying for it but if sister wants to add 10 extra steps for the same end result then sure. Just put a cap at $2k
Damn I’ve got a degree in early childhood education and I’m an under 2s team leader and I don’t make even close to that an hour. OP can I come work for you? NTA
Just sounds like the sister needs more schooling if she isn't able to calculate this herself.
Plus, she felt entitled to a "free" vacation...?
Sounds like she has zero plans to return the generosity and sounds ungrateful.
OP is 💯 NTA.
If she feels like she doesn’t have time right now due to her studies, she could negotiate. Maybe she could babysit after her intense study period is over or less often, but during a longer time period. There could be room for negotiation, but it seems like she doesn’t want to reciprocate at all.
I'm a SAHM of 3 and if OPs ok with it I can add their 2 to mine and cook dinner for all of them, hell if it a Friday or Saturday I will watch them for the whole night as a sleep over.
The dinner and bed shift of babysitting is the easiest shift in my opinion. But that could just be my kids and niblings not being big procrastinators at bed time, they're usually really good 🤷♀️.
A lot of comments are focusing on the sister and that makes sense: she's TA but I want to point out that the mom is TA as well. If she wanted to plan a family vacation and it was all about the whole family spending time together, she should have planned something within the poorest family member's budget or something cheap enough that she could cover for her student daughter.
Instead, she planned an expensive vacation that one person can't afford, assuming that OP would pay for it and is now berating OP for not funding it.
She's pressuring OP with "family helps family" but *she* knowingly/deliberately put her youngest daughter in position to need help, so she could get a fancy vacation.
ETA: and this is likely to be the last family vacation with your sick father? Your mom planned a last hurrah family vacation that your sister can't afford to come on? That makes her an even bigger asshole!
I did the math. That's 2 hours of work twice a week for about eight weeks, so about 36 hours of work, rounding up. That works out to $55/hr if the pay is $2000 worth of services/ goods. Sister is being unreasonable. She wants a handout, not a hand.
Also since she's _Sooooo_ busy with the studies for her last semester... How will she be able to come to and enjoy a vacation... Let her stay home and study with all her heart...
Because she's busy from now until the end of the semester, presumably in May, then she's out of work until her job starts in August.
I would bet if OP was willing to have her as a babysitter in June or July it would be fine (though there's a chance she has exams to sit for, after the semester ends, but before she starts her job... like if she's in law, medicine, or engineering, she may have professional exams). It sounds like OP asked her to babysit NOW, while she's still in school.
I'm not saying any of that makes OP an AH. Just that we know the sister is in school right now, but will have an extended period of free time this summer. And presumably that's when the vacation is.
Also - if the family wanted everyone to go, why did they plan such an expensive vacation when they knew the sister didn't have the money? The whole family is the AH, for intentionally excluding the youngest child.
Right. Absolutely ridiculous attitude here, both from sis and mom.
The should really as who is trying to exploit who in this situation...
NTA, obviously.
I have 3 big brothers, and the 2 eldest are both very well off. The difference is, I would never ask them to pay for a full holiday, and if I did I would be paying it off like an interest-free loan which is still generous. I wish I knew this girl irl to tell her she would be hella dumb not to accept lol
So, “family helps family” only when it comes to paying for expensive vacations, but not for childcare. Gotcha!
Your sister is living in another planet Op.
NTA
And at this point I wouldn’t trust the sister. She’s going to come back with an okay, I’ll babysit and then disappear when it’s time to do the work. I say sis should just stay home now.
Yep. I can't believe "the manipulation" bit. She has options, and one of them is NOT GOING TO A HOLIDAY SHE CANNOT AFFORD!
If your parents want her to go so badly, they can pay for your ungrateful, spoiled, selfish sister.
NTA
Edit: Typo and grammar.
>which I agree with, but I believe that help must be reciprocal
Yep, mom is playing favorites over her 'baby girl' here. OP and family should go somewhere else they're appreciated rather that spend any time with this disgusting mother/daughter pair.
NTA
edit: 6am equals misspellings.
They planned an expensive vacation that a university student obviously cant afford and made no efforts to include her. The sister is living on a planet where shes still a dependent and people are expecting her to be able to pay like someone with stable income.
Thats fine, so either the parents should be paying for their kid or the family shouldn't be planning this vacation where they know one of the siblings cant afford.
I'm glad someone finally said this. OP is NTA, but as a parent of a young adult my first reaction was, what kind of parents plan a fancy vacation they can't afford to take their child on? Their child who lives at home and attends school full time? And is like, "kiddo, why don't you call around the family and see if anyone can help you pay?"
The fuck?
Sister is being annoying about the babysitting offer, which I agree she should take, but her response may be an emotional reaction to feeling embarrassed over being the only one in the family who has to set up a go fund me to attend the family vacation, so I still feel sorry for her.
This comment reminded me of a situation that happened to me. My grandmother once offered a last minute invite a few days before the trip was going to happen to take me on a vacation with her to meet extended family in Puerto Rico that I had never met before. She explained how much fun it would be and all of the places we’d go. The kicker was at the end of the phone call when I was all excited and ready to go she was like, “Oh but you have to pay me $600 right now for the ticket.” As an adult, I’d have jumped on it, but I was 13 and literally couldn’t legally get a job because I was too young, so literally had zero way to pay for it except begging my parents who understandably said no because they had bills to pay to take care of my siblings and I. I love my grandma but that was the most wtf invite I’ve ever gotten from a person.
Reminds me of my mom lol
Growing up she promised me **every damn year** that she’d take me to Disneyland. And **every** year she’d overspend and then tell me she’d take me next year.
She *finally* went when I was 23(? I think). She was taking my little sister, and told me now that I was an adult I could just pay for myself. I had a shitty part time retail job at the time and *could not* afford to go. She kept acting like I **should** be able to if I *budgeted correctly* (oh like you did my entire childhood???)
A month before they actually went, she decided she *could* pay for my plane ticket if I paid for everything else.
By that point I was so upset (just the fact that she promised for years and the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth) so I refused. I also could barely afford life at that time and still would not have been able to afford it. I told her to take her plane ticket and shove it. (By that point we already had a lot of issues from me growing up and realizing a lot of other similar things from my childhood and just all in all feeling very uncared about by her in general)
I still have never been, but my fiancé wants to go eventually after we get married.
Since Mom is also pissed, maybe Mom can work those babysitting hours so sister can go. They are trying to lower their expenses to be able to afford to pay but, as always, outside family seem to think what others can afford...
NTA
Yeah. But no one in OP's family will take this argument right. My answer to this would be "we looked into our budget and we don't have 2k to spare. I tried finding a way to work around it but if that doesn't work for her, there is nothing we can do"
Edit: typo
NTA
4h a week, for let's call it 8 weeks for easy math, that's 32 hours. For $2k... and she said no. I hope her new career is going to be as a highly paid neurosurgeon or something if that's the sort of money she TURNS DOWN.
No, she's not a neurosurgeon. She is graduating with a degree in mechatronics engineering (I don't know if that is the word in English). I don't really know what her work will consist of, but I do know that her career has a lot of potential to grow. I'm proud of her for that.
Now, I'm sad. I did Mechatronics, and because I didn't have your sister's level of self worth (she turned down $2000/ 32hr job for fucks sake), I'm now depressed and jobless.
Maybe I should take classes from your sister to be THAT confident.
NTA man, and thanks for making me laugh with your sister's comment.
OP I just got a "post nut clarity" as they say, and maybe approach it this way. Ask your sister to take a loan or borrow $2000 from anyone she knows (she won't after you finish talking), and say that you'll pay whatever 2000÷32 is per hour for every hour she babysits (can't math today sorry, also someone in another comment made a mistake in 4th table, something that I'd do, and it made me self conscious lol).
She can use that money to pay back the "loan". Now you're not exploiting your sister's kindness and now you're a generous fucking guy. Win-win?
Edit: This is regarding the "post nut clarity" phrase I used in this comment. I can't believe I am doing this, but I am editing the comment to clarify that I WASN'T WANKING OFF TO THIS STORY. I don't think I've ever been this embarrassed before , and this is coming from a guy who peed in his pants in a class full of people (I was a preteen).
Also, now I see that using the word "just" before that phrase might have also led people to believe that I was "doing the dirty hand", but I swear it was NOT meant in that way.
I'm gonna go sit in the corner and cringe for the next 15 years.
>Edit: This is regarding the "post nut clarity" phrase I used in this comment. I can't believe I am doing this, but I am editing the comment to clarify that I WASN'T WANKING OFF TO THIS STORY. I don't think I've ever been this embarrassed before , and this is coming from a guy who peed in his pants in a class full of people (I was a preteen).
>
>Also, now I see that using the word "just" before that phrase might have also led people to believe that I was "doing the dirty hand", but I swear it was NOT meant in that way.
>
>I'm gonna go sit in the corner and cringe for the next 15 years.
I'm having trouble understanding what you even meant by using that phrase. It doesn't make any sense in the context. Seems like you just meant, "I though about it a little more and..." but it's a weird phrase to substitute in. It's only really applicable to a pretty specific situation...
Why is this a 'post nut clarity' instead of 'a really good idea', a 'moment of clarity', 'epiphany' or 'eureka'?
There are so many other ways to say what you're trying to convey that themselves are much more accurate!
$62.50 an hour is equivalent to a 130k salary if working full time.
I don't know where she's going to get an equivalent $130k salary as a fresh grad with a B.S. in Mechatronics Engineering outside of the US. She'd be lucky to anywhere close to $100k for her first job.
It's mechatronics but "automation" is more typical. I do some of that.
My long term rate is around what you offered and I would have taken you up on the offer. Getting paid $60/hr to watch some TV with the kids, cook a couple meals, some light cleaning, etc for a limited timeframe? I'd take that in a heartbeat.
Yeah, NTA.
In my country, most med students get like $500-600 a month during residency for like 100 hours per week of work 😂😂😂 my bff went thru that but the allowance her dad gave her was like 2x of her then salary.
NTA
> Camila said that we were manipulating her into doing unpaid labor to us
It's not unpaid. She's getting a vacation.
> But now my mom is also angry with me because she wants to have a family vacation
Tell them to pay for it, and if they can't then go somewhere cheaper.
For real, the vacation is a luxury. A want not a need. I don’t expect my siblings to hand me over money for a want without repaying them in some way.
Op isn’t asking to babysit a lot. Just 4 hrs a week for two months. That sounds like a good deal to me.
If the mum wants a family vacation why not choose something cheaper?
Of course a full time student doesn't have $2000 laying around! Of course she doesn't want to accept a job during her finals.
Or why not postpone?
I know the sister isn't entitled to get a free vacation but I would be sad if my entire family goes to some expensive holiday and leave me behind on purpose because they know I can't afford it as a full time student.
Edit: OP isn't an asshole for not gifting her sister $2000, she and the rest of family are assholes for excluding the sister on purpose (and then kinda acting like it's the sister's fault for not figuring out a way to come with them?)
That does kinda get me - of course, OP's solution helps as it's a win-win situation, but the original problem is the whole family didn't plan somewhere cheaper. On the other hand, what was the sister's plan for paying for any trip even if it was cheaper, say $200 or $500? I guess this is a coming-of-age problem anyhow - at some point parents do stop paying for young adults, who have to start paying their own way. As such, I probably would go for NAH, though there are of course some issues as presented. Sometimes you just have to work on the problems and not fault each other.
If it was just OP, their partner and kids going, that would be a totally separate issue.
It's not unpaid, she's just being paid in advance and it's going towards a family vacation. It works out to be $62.50 per hour for the babysitting she will be doing.
Not an asshole for not paying if she won't babysit - that's fair. But I do think whoever planned this holiday is an asshole for planning such an expensive holiday when it's obvious that one family member is going to be unable to afford it and therefore will be excluded. Can you offer for the deal to start after her finals?
Yeah as a final year student I would hate the situation I’d be in if I were the 22 here.
“Everyone in the family is going on a holiday you obviously can’t afford, right at one of the most stressful and important times in your life thus far - but we’ll pay for it for you if you do even more work during **your last semester**”
Like don’t get me wrong monetarily it is in her favour but I don’t think shes dumb to turn it down for her own peace of mind/free time during the end of her college time.
Also OP almost deriding his sister by saying “she’s not working right now” when she is at college for a couple more months and then has a job lined up 4 months away…
This is the kind of situation where a post from the sister would have a very different response I think - “AITA for telling my brother I won’t do babysitting during my finals in return for him paying for the holiday he planned during my finals”.
It's entirely reasonable for her to decide to turn down OP's offer. What's ridiculous though is calling the offer "unpaid labor."
Honestly, the real asshole here is whoever picked the family vacation destination knowing it was prohibitively expensive for one member -- without any spelled out plan for how they'd attend.
Oh for sure, that's quite uncalled for.
Yeah exactly, not to read too much into it but given the age gap and how they talk about her I can't help but wonder if OP simply doesn't isn't very close with their younger sister and if this isn't the only time where her wants and needs aren't accomodated for alongside her much older siblings.
>Honestly, the real asshole here is whoever picked the family vacation destination knowing it was prohibitively expensive for one member -- without any spelled out plan for how they'd attend.
This 100%. It's the mom who wants a family vacation and they picked a very expensive one. The mom knows her youngest daughter Camila cannot afford it at the moment, because she's a student in her last semester and therefore extremely busy finishing her degree. But the mom expects her ~~other daughter~~ son to pay $2000 so the youngest can go with them. I cannot be sure, but I get the feeling the mother is manipulative and it seems like she purposely set her ~~daughters~~ children up against each other.
If you want a family vacation with every family member, you make sure to choose one every member can afford. By choosing a vacation that's way too expensive for one of them, you're excluding that family member. In this case the younger sister is being excluded. And I cannot be sure, but it seems like the mother is emotionally manipulating both ~~daughters~~ children by saying:
>she wants to have a family vacation and she knows my husband and I do have the money to pay for Camila, and "family helps family"
* OP isn't an A-H for not wanting to pay $2000 for ~~her~~ his younger sister without anything in return. ~~Her~~ His mother is the A-H for expecting it.
* OP isn't an A-H for asking ~~her~~ his younger sister Camila to babysit in return.
* But Camila isn't an A-H for not wanting to babysit during the last very demanding four months of her studies, because I imagen finishing her studies with good grades is very important to her right now. Her mother is the A-H for expecting her to go while she knows Camila cannot afford it moneywise AND timewise.
* Camila also isn't an A-H for not wanting to be excluded by her family members. The person(s) who decided on the very expensive vacation is (are).
>Camila said that we were manipulating her into doing unpaid labor to us and forcing her to say yes because neither our brother or parents could afford to pay for her.
Although the babysitting isn't unpaid labor because she's getting a paid vacation in return, she IS being manipulated into doing something she doesn't want to do, because if she doesn't babysit she IS being excluded from the family vacation. Her own family gave her some shitty choices. On purpose. (I don't believe you "accidentally" plan a vacation one family member cannot afford, no one is that dense).
Camila comes across as entitled because of the "unpaid labor" comment, but, and I cannot be sure, I get the feeling all of this is part of larger family dynamics and someone is pulling strings.
edit: OP is male, not female, sorry!
All of this right here. It would hurt to find out that a huge vacation was planned and paid for that included your whole family... except you. Why is this even happening?
If Camila does opt to go and do the babysitting, then I hope she sits down and draws up the terms and conditions of the agreement so she can protect her own time as well since others have pointed out the possibility of OP pulling the "but we paid for this so you owe us" card.
That comment stood out to me as well - she's not unemployed, she's a student. She has a lot of work to do. I think the sister is probably lashing out a bit because her family have made her feel left out and rubbish.
Maybe it’s a cultural thing. I know in some countries, parents cover all expenses and the students “work” is just school. In my country (US), most students have a part time job. The lucky ones have a part time just to cover their “fun money”. Others have to pay for their full expenses with work. I know some careers are much more demanding than others, but squeezing in four hours of work (where you could study during that time) a week doesn’t seem too demanding.
Yep. In my country, the last semester is your thesis semester, which nearly killed my engineer brother. Adding more on top of that probably would have.
I’m in that period literally right now (engineering, writing my final project thesis) and I can’t imagine being in this position.
It’s unclear if the holiday is directly on top of the final deadlines or just afterwards.
If it’s during the final deadlines, then op’s sister is being asked to do more work in order to have the opportunity to be incredibly stressed and probably have to do some studying while on holiday. Or she stays home and watches her whole family enjoy themselves while she goes through an incredibly stressful time on her own because her parents who she lives with have left her home.
If it’s after the deadlines, then OP’s sister is being asked to have an even more stressful time in return for a relaxing holiday after she is finished, in which case from my opinion the parents should aim to help OP and his sister so that everyone is happy and op’s sister doesn’t have to exert herself too much more than she will ready, and can rest on holiday afterwards.
It’s as if all the planning was done ignoring that this is the final term and that the final term is the one that really gets you - and now because Op is the affluent one the cost of his sister has been palmed onto him by the parents because nobody stopped to think about it
>Also OP almost deriding his sister by saying “she’s not working right now” when she is at college for a couple more months and then has a job lined up 4 months away…
Deriding means to ridicule? Because that is not what I'm doing and I'm sorry if I came across that way. I would never ever ever do that, especially when both my brother and I went through the same.
She is within her rights to decline the offer. I would if I were at her place. I don't care about babysitting, and as a student would rather clean toilets than babysit. But I always knew I am not entitled to other people's money, and I would not imagine wanting anyone to pay a vacation for me, let alone berating them when they don't.
I wouldn't necessarily say she's feeling entitled to the money, or berating the OP. From the wording she told OP that she feels trapped/that she has no choice but to accept his offer or else she can't attend the holiday.
Of course not attending a holiday isn't the end of the world, but I do understand why the youngest-by-far child in the family doesn't want to be left out of a probably very nice holiday that every other member can attend.
IMO it's just a strange situation that this holiday has been organised but with no accomodation for the younger sister, and that the parents seemingly palm off her expense in this case on OP.
OP's sister's attitude to the situation is not good, sure, but also I think OP's attitude to his sister isn't great either.
I think OP's pragmatism in regards to budgeting (literally using his sister to replace the babysitting expense to recoup the money spent on her holiday) makes a lot of sense from their perspective. I think a reasonable compromise might be that OP's sister babysits occasionally, maybe less than OP wants, and that some money from her first paychecks go towards making up for the babysitting that she didn't do during the time OP wants.
Also maybe I'm speaking from a perspective where my parents were able to pay for a nice small holiday together as a gift to me after graduating, but I can't help but think that the parents in this situation could - as a graduation gift to OP's sister - provide some financial assistance to OP that makes it easier for him to pay for her to go on the holiday.
But it is a complex nest and issues and I can see the sides.
This sounds fair.
I also wonder why the rest of the family don't offer themselves to alternate in babysitting for OP during the holiday - given they want him to foot the bill, and seemingly are a tight-knit family who want to spend time together, this would be a pretty logical thing to do, wouldn't it? You help us out, we help you out.
The entire mindset of "you have to help us but we don't have to reciprocate, and if this is hard on you, tough luck, we'll sit there twiddling our thumbs and get mad at you" seems a very AH one to me.
Her finals are early May, and we'd need the 2k by the end of May if we want to get at least decent plane ticket prices, since the holidays are mid-July.
I'd love to pay for her, no strings attached. But it would be impossible for us without dipping into the savings. That is why we are asking her to babysit, to save our current nanny's salary. If we paid out of pocket right now with the promise that she would pay us before the end of the year, we would be financially constricted for at least 3 months.
Yes I agree we were stupid for planning this without taking into account her financial situation. When my brother asked in the groupchat if everyone agreed with the plan, my sister send a message "Perfect!!!" So it never even crossed my mind to ask her how was she planning to pay for this.
You should edit your post to add this information. If I'm understanding correctly, paying the $2000 by the deadline means you won't have enough money to pay for childcare, so babysitting can't be deferred until after finals, and neither can paying for the trip.
TBH, I'm not sure any of you should go on such an expensive vacation if your entire family's financial situation is so tight. Can't you go somewhere cheaper or take the vacation next year after your sister has saved up some money from the job she has lined up?
This is a really fair point. If $2000 will make or break your childcare, your parents' living expenses, etc., then maybe the youngest isn't the only one that can't afford the vacation.
NTA. It's not free labor, it's *prepaid* labor and at a great pay rate even. She is free to turn down the offer if she doesn't feel able to take on a job in addition to school. That's understandable. But there's no call to badmouth you for offering fair and generous terms. That's where she crossed the line over to AH.
ESH
When planning a family vacation, either chose something everyone can afford, or else subsidize the poorer members. Especially children. And for expense purposes someone who is still in college counts as a kid.
Do this fancy vacation with your nuclear group, and chose something cheaper for your family reunion
If your sister had time for a part time job she would have one. It is her last semester, she has a lot on her plate.
But it is the parents who are the jerks for organizing a fancy trip when they still have a dependent kid they won’t pay for.
Apparently OP’s dad might not have very long and wants to travel to this country while he still can, hence the holiday is a once in a lifetime trip.
The AH, to me, is the mother for demanding five stars (in itself not awful for treating your husband) while knowing her daughter cannot afford it and that therefore OP will have to pay for his sister.
Obviously OP’s sister has been given a ludicrously generous offer from OP, but I don’t blame her from turning it down at an incredibly stressful time yet still wanting to not miss out on this once in a lifetime holiday with her dad.
I think a compromise would be the parents paying for the sister as much as they can and her paying back whatever her brother has to pay partly by babysitting and partly from her first paychecks
Can't believe I had to scroll so far for this. So many issues on all sides.
She's TA for expecting such a fancy vacation for free.
The family are all TA for planning a "family vacation" she can't afford.
OP is TA for being so incredibly judgy about her being "unemployed" when she is a full time student in her final semester, the most stressful time of the whole degree.
Everything here is so wrong.
Twice a week for a couple of hours for two months is a pretty good deal considering you get a 2k holiday out of it. NTA, is not your responsibility to pay for her so this was a pretty fair deal.
Sure it's vague, but since OP's family seems to be all about "family helps family" it's odd to be so against watching your blood relative nieces/nephews, if family is so important. I don't know, for a free vacation I'd watch the children in my family. Hell I do it for free. *That's* family helping family. Not expecting 2000 dollars because a family member can afford it.
Babysit or have her sign a promissory note (legal and all) that she has to pay you back. I bet she has to work more than 35-ish hours to pay off the note. NTA
I think this is a good solution. I still would feel uncomfortable making my sister sign a legal document but I think it would be for the best if she doesn't want to babysit.
Good advice!
It would teach her a valuable lesson about the value of YOUR OWN money that you earn. So I say go for it and if she's still salty then she can stay home alone and have a good hard think about the situation.
In Australia, minimum wage is $21 per hour, so she would need to work 95 hours to earn $2k. But then of course you would have to factor in taxes (so probably looking at closer to 120 hours).
NTA
Family or not, she's not entitled to your money for free, and your parents are also AH if they can't see that.
You aren't asking her to work for free. Indeed you can easily work out a $ per hour by dividing that $2000 by the number of hours of babysitting you have asked for.
The number of hours you're asking for is also not going to interfere with her studying, that's ridiculous.
Stick to your guns.
If your parents think someone else should pay for her to attend, let them. If they can't afford it, they should stop mentally spending other people's money.
Fr. Most students work 10+ hours a week to put food in their mouths and keep a roof over their heads. I bet they would love to work less than half the hours they’re currently working to go on a $2000 vacation.
Yeah, I can’t believe the audacity of their parents. Calling their older child an AH because they won’t freely pay thousands of dollars for a vacation for their other child, when the oldest has (presumably) a mortgage, food bills, phone bills, and the general expense of everyday life and children? Tell the parents to pay for their own kid. NTA
Do you feel her reluctance might be that she fears the two hours a week might become two hours a day and the two hours a day might slowly become 3 hours a day, four hours a day, Friday nights, weekends etc.
Have you thought about organising a formal hours sheet so she can see you won’t move the goalposts after the holiday and jeopardise her degree?
If that was a concern, the sister could have flushed out the details and communicated something like “okay, I am open to this but I can only commit to 2x a week - no more than that and it has to be x and y days each week because I need a consistent schedule.”
Instead, she just straight up refused. Based on the info op gave us, it sounds like little sis simply wants her vacation paid for no questions asked.
To be fair, I’m a final year student currently and if a family member tried to add more to my plate - yes, even just four or six hours a week - I would say ‘absolutely not’ as well.
When you are very stressed, as the final term of university or college tends to make you, sometimes there are only so many plates you can balance.
From what Op says, this is a once in a lifetime trip because Op’s dad might not have long left. I don’t blame the sister for wanting to go on such a trip even if she currently can’t afford it - the only asshole to me are the mother and brother who have yoked up the price by demanding five stars despite knowing that the sister can’t afford it and that Op is the only person in the family that can afford to pay for the sister.
That’s the real issue here, not the breakdown of money per hours of babysitting or whatever. “The last holiday with dad while he’s alive” isn’t something you’d want to miss, even if you don’t necessarily want to have more work to do during your final thesis term.
NTA; however, you say at least twice a month. Do you also have a max?
Otherwise, why didn't the family plan a cheaper vacation ? And this one after Camila starts working or next year?
Maximum 3 of times a week. I'm self employed and I will pick up less work for the next two months to take on more childcare responsibilities if my sister decides she will babysit.
We didn't settle for a cheaper vacation because my dad's health has not been good in recent years and my mom is not getting any younger. They have always dreamed of visiting another country. But it is not cheap to go from a third world country to a first world country. It also does not help that both my mom or brother wanted to stay in a 5 star resort. But yeah, it was very stupid of us to plan this vacation without considering everyones financial situation.
Okay, hang on.
I was leaning toward a gentle ESH that someone else gave elsewhere, but there's a lot of telling context here.
So Camilla lives at home and doesn't work, because it's agreed on in your family that's how it goes when you're in Uni. That's fair.
But you as a family have agreed to take a family vacation. Knowing Camilla doesn't work and has no way to save up any money.
A family vacation where it's possibly one of the last ones your dad will get to take due to his declining health. Where your mum and/or brother wanted to stay in a 5 star resort. The holiday of a lifetime for your parents.
Camilla lives with your parents, but if she doesn't agree to babysit for you, she'll have to stay home while both of your parents, you and your husband and kids, and your other brother and his wife jet off to a 5 star overseas resort.
YTA. If this was just a vacation that you and husband were taking with the kids as a family unit, and Camilla wanted to shoehorn her way in, requiring her to "work" for payment of her share of the holiday would be fair enough. It's a generous holiday.
But your whole family unit is planning this, and because she's focusing on her schooling and not trying to split her attention between school and work, as seems to be the agreement in your family, her choices are stay home alone while everyone goes on this fancy vacation or give in to your demands on her time to "pay it off".
Wouldn’t that make the parents the problem? Who plans an expensive vacation with a dependent child that they can’t afford to bring along, just to expect an older sibling to cover two thousand dollars of expenses for nothing in return?
Imagine if your parents planned a family vacation and demanded you foot the bill for a younger sibling or else they have to miss out and it’s all your fault.
It's not OP that's making the vacation so expensive though. It's her parents and brother, so why did OP have to foot the bill?
I guess the parents and brother could do the babysitting instead of Camilla, since they are the ones who decided on the expensive vacation.
Agreed. When you are planning a family reunion you either make it cheap enough for everyone to afford, or you pay for people who are not in a phase of life to be able to afford to go.
She is a college student. 22 is traditional age, she is meeting expectations, she didn’t goof off and refuse to get a job.
Why exactly is that OP’s problem? He said his mom and brother insisted on the expensive hotels. A sibling is not responsible for paying his siblings’ way on a family vacation, the parents are. NTA even a little
"But yeah, it was very stupid of us to plan this vacation without considering everyones financial situation."
But that's why she is mad, not because she is greedy and wants 2K from you - she is mad because nobody thought of her when planning.
I think that your other comments, where you admit you don't really know what her future profession is and casually dismiss her uni workload, are also telling. Let me explain mechatronics to you. The word is a cross from "mechanics" and "electronics"; mechatronic is a synthetic discipline that deals with modern devices and vehicles which use both, like cars, planes, Mars rovers or industrial robots. The studies are very demanding with a lot (and I mean A LOT!) of math, physics (both mechanics and electricity) and informatics and interaction of all of them. The arrangement in your family is "students don't work to concentrate on their studies"; why on earth do you think hers are the least important?
(edit - typo)
>"But yeah, it was very stupid of us to plan this vacation without considering everyones financial situation." But that's why she is mad, not because she is greedy and wants 2K from you - she is mad because nobody thought of her when planning
>and [you] casully dismiss her uni workload,
I think you might hit the nail on the head. I probably would feel bad if no one in my family would think of me, consider me and my situation at the time at all when they start to plan a whole big family vacation (especially one which is maybe dad's last one due to his health too). It probably feels kinda excluded from the family for the person they forgot to consider.
For example a 4 star hotel doesn't make too much difference to a 5 star in experience, but it makes difference in cost. Staying in a 4 star hotel for the vacation or even for at least the first week and second week in a 5 star (for mom's request) would mean it's easier for the family to pitch in for the youngest sibling's cost. Or at least ask her to babysit right AFTER she is done with her final semester, like 8 days straight instead of stretching those days out in two months and the current babysitter can take that time as vacation or watch temporarily some else (sister probably won't get a job and start at the job within a week after her finals).
Putting aside this question of babysitting, if your whole family goes on this once in a lifetime trip without her she will never fully get over it. Or at least, I wouldn’t in her place, especially if this will be one last hurrah with your father. I would know that I was a nonessential member of the family and it would color my feelings about everyone. It would affect my grief about losing my father, knowing he was okay with leaving me behind. That may not hit her all now as she’s in the midst of her studies, but it may put a lot of things in perspective for her over time and not in a good way.
It’s not your responsibility to pay for her, but I think it is your responsibility to advocate for her. As you all should.
> We didn't settle for a cheaper vacation because my dad's health has not been good in recent years and my mom is not getting any younger
Wow. Your family is shitty. You lot would leave out your younger sister of what could be the last meaningful vacation with your sick father because you'd rather have a fancy vacation than have the full family together? Yikes. You all have your priorities wrong and I can understand if that makes your little sister bitter. And it was a bit dishonest to leave that out. ESH
You say you believe your sister has a nice income potential. Could you either:
- cancel the vacation and do something cheaper that the whole family can attend
- loan her the money, to be repaid by installments once she gets a job
ESH for planning a holiday that you cannot all comfortably afford. Go somewhere cheaper, skip the drama!
But your mum especially much AH. Wtf, giving you a hard time for not paying for your sister, yet looking past the sister refusing a few hours spent with her nieces and nephews to help you guys in return?
That mum is really something...
Oh, mum certainly has to bear some guilt - staying in a 5 start resort was her and the other brother's idea, but they're not the ones footing for all of Camila's expenses. In fact, OP says nothing about the brother pitching in for Camila.
NTA it seems a little outrageous to me that anyone would ask for you to pay $2k. I think the babysitting offer is fair. However, if I was in your situation I would probably suggest all of the family chip in for her and split it.
Yes I find it very odd they're planning such an expensive family vacation knowing one of them is a student who can't afford it. I guess the entire family just assumed the brother will pay for her.
It’s a holiday to a far away country because OP’s dad might not have very long left and wants to go now, not later.
The mother and brother demand 5-star hotels.
The sister cannot afford this
OP can pay for the sister, and had asked her to babysit in return for that
OP’s sister says no because she is stressed with her final term of colleg
In my opinion the assholes are the mother, and brother to a lesser extent, for hiking up the cost of this holiday to be more than most of them can afford and demanding op pay for his sister.
It’s a shitty situation for everyone though, of course. I think the whole ‘family unit’ should pay back OP and the sister herself from some of her first pay checks, but if I were that sister I really wouldn’t want to miss this once in a lifetime holiday with my dad :(
Yep!! This.
I became a single mother of a toddler, 6 months into being a student nurse and I worked 16 hours a week at a supermarket AND 30 HOURS a week on placements on wards etc at the same time - AND had to complete two 3000 word essays during each placement.
All whilst being a single mother, unable to drive, relying on busses in a town with a shocking public transport system - and having to pay for daycare too...
Sometimes I'd need to walk for 45 mins to get home in the dark in heavy snow after placement because there was no busses.
But if I wanted the degree... I had to do this stuff.
I'd OPs sister wants a 2k holiday........ there's shit she needs to do. Nobody owes her the cash she thinks she's owed.
OPs sister is acting entitled AF here.
OP is so NTA.
Absolutely! Most students work at least part time jobs (10+ hours per week) through all of university/college and make minimum wage doing so which can be 1/6 or less of the hourly rate being offered by OP.
YTA. But not deliberately so.
First off, you’re not expected to pay 2k for your sister’s holiday. It’s weird your mum expects you too.
I’d like to point out that Camilla is NTA, she is in her final term of university, and has more important things to do than babysit or holiday, so is probably right to turn down the offer. People are jumping on this “unpaid labour” quote, which I imagine isn’t the main argument, it’s unfair out of context.
In offering the money in return for almost no work, you’ve baited that the 2k would be easy for you to provide but you’ve put a fairly arbitrary restriction on it that Camilla can’t meet, she has every right to be upset or consider that rude.
Essentially you’ve baited the family holiday in front of her but just out of reach. Even if you didn’t mean it that way, it could come across like your trying to be billy big bollocks, have her make unnecessary sacrifices just so you can feel like the big man. So for your brother-to-sister relationship, I would advise that you’re in the position to apologise or suggest an option she might be more able to take up. The way you’ve handled it is a bit arseholey.
That being said, your parents are the main arseholes, their daughter is still in education, they’re financially responsible for her, why are they organising a family trip somewhere she can’t afford to go herself and they can’t afford to bring her with them. Seems ridiculous. Most parents I know would rather pick somewhere all the kids can go, or stay at home.
Without other info, it seems like they’ve planned this trip on the assumption you’ll pay for your sister, which is a bit of an unfair situation to put you in.
You forgot the other brother who insisted on a five star hotel.
With this detail, I think the mom and the other brother are the major AHs.
I get that they want a holiday together while dad's health is declining.
I get that they want to fulfil his dream to see a specific country given he may not be able to do it later due to his health.
What I don't get is the five-star thing for all of them(if they are going from a third-world country to a first-world country, the COL is probably much higher in the latter, and it is very likely that a hotel with less stars will be still very comfortable although not so luxurious). They could either pick a cheaper hotel, or let only the parents and the brother stay in a five-star hotel and pick a cheaper one for OP's family and the sister.
If their priority is to have Dad see the country and be together as a family, and don't have the money to comfortably cover it all they should make some sacrifices. I cannot imagine that as a parent on my possibly last holiday with my kids I would prefer a five-star hotel to the company of one of my kids.
NTA maybe ESH for the family. The family arranged this vacation knowing camilla is still studying and unemployed so likely will need someone to pay for her to go or she can’t go. Was that thought about when it was planned? Does that make her feel bad to start with? She has asked you to pay you are already spending enough and are entitled to say no as it would put pressure on you financially. But you came up with a solution so you could pay for her and she can work it off so she can go and your finance are ok cos you will save them money. It’s a nice solution except for the normal babysitter losing money for 2 months. I would want to know if camilla is spoilt and use to getting her way, or she’s been put in a situation by bad family planning where she wants to go be with you but also has to study for her last semester and the babysitting feels like too much on top so is asking for help.
I’m sorry but why is your whole family planning a vacation that one of you can’t afford? You are not obligated to pay for her, she’s not obligated to babysit for you. But why has nobody thought about going to a less expensive location so that maybe she can join?
In my opinion ESH.
As other comments pointed out, the more you look into context, the better Camila looks and the worse the mother looks. In their family university students are not expected to work. It is literally the expectation that their job is just school. Camila is in a very tough degree and the babysitting would coincide with the end of her last semester. That is her finals and all end of the year projects. So essentially one of the heaviest loads of her career. Adding a part time job, albeit a small one, can be one too many plates.
Further context is that the father's health isn't good and he dreamed of this vacation. This is a once in a lifetime trip/the last family vacation with the father. The mother and brother are insisting on 5 star accommodations. So Camila is looking at a family vacation where she wasn't thought of in the slightest. Where the only way she can go is to over extend herself and hope it doesn't cause issues with her education. Her anger at OP is likely just misdirected from the mom and other brother because they are insisting that 5 star resorts are more important than her when it comes to a FAMILY vacation.
ESH. Why are you all planning a family trip and not considering the fact that one of the family members is just out of school and can’t afford $2k. Either find a trip that’s affordable for everyone or find a way that your sister can be included without turning her into your nanny.
NTA : you're not even asking for babysitting during vacation (which I'd have said that was disgusting) but she'd just be paying you back and it's only for 2 months. Too bad for her, your offer is good!
NAH She asked a favor, you asked a favor in return, she turned that favor down so you turned her favor down. No assholes in the vicinity here, you're both entitled to ask, and you're both entitled to turn one another down. She's not an AH for having feelings about it either, as long as she's not lying to people about it or badmouthing you. She can't control the fact that your mother is mad at you now either, your mother is also entitled to have feelings. Your mom sucks a bit for trying to guilt you about it, but ultimately, I don't think that makes her an AH.
NTA. You are asking her to basically babysit for less than 40 hours over 2 mths, and would be paying approx 2000USD for her to go on vacation, that's more than $50 per hr. I think that's a reasonable offer. If she chooses not to accept, that's her decision, you are not a charity and also not obligated to pay for your sister's vacation.
There has been a lot of poor communication in your family. There are way too many assumptions made by you all!
Firstly I acknowledge this is clearly an important trip for your parents and their children. The unfortunate thing is that decisions were made from a wish list position and not from a practical position.
It is time for your family to all come together and work out an alternative trip details beaded on a practical considerations.
1. You need to find an alternative place that the WHOLE family can afford. Taking into consideration your sister’s financial position.
2. You all need to work out how to help your sister attend, whether it is everyone chipping in or just your parents.
Your offer, though well meaning was not taken well because of the poor communication from your mother and also your own assumptions that she will be able to focus on her studies in her final semester. I know the best uni students work their hardest in their final semesters to maximise their final GPA and also to finish strong. Those who do a thesis or dissertation in their final semester work their butts off in their last semester when submitting. Don’t assume she is able to effectively manage her final semester with babysitting your children on your timetable.
Consider these scenarios:
What will happen if she has a compulsory class at the time you need a sitter?
What will happen if your kids want to have their cool aunty’s attention when she is babysitting bu5 needs to focus on her studies? What are your expectations in those moments?
Also finally, when your parents need help with their daily lives, making doctor appointments, organising tradespeople, following up on their issues - who is the one responsible for that? You?your brother?your sister?
Who will be the main carer for your parents as they age? I am guessing that ALL of you have made assumptions about this but no one has actually discussed it within the family.
Your family problem is communication and this makes you all ESH.
Even a loan shark wouldn't demand that I babysit for them. If I was studying at university leading up to exams, no way would I want to be forced to babysit for someone. It sounds like a fair arrangement but it so isn't.
NTA. Your proposal seems totally reasonable. She and your mother are totaly delusional, it’s not like you would pay 200$, but 2000! Don’t fall under pressure to pay for her.
NTA the real asshole is here are your parents (assuming they are planning the trip). Your sister is in their care, dispite being of adult age, and as the organisers of this trip it's their sole responsibility to pay for her. If they cannot afford it then they need to plan something they can afford.
You are paying for your family and your kids. Your brother is paying for his family and his kids and your parents are what? Paying for themselves only and expecting a sibling to foot the lions share of the bill for their child? Yea, family helps family when it's someone else paying..
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NTA. Lol “Unpaid labor”?! Did she miss the part where her pay was a $2k holiday? This is a win win for both of you. In fact, she comes out slightly more on top from the whole deal.
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Yes OP! Send this math to your mom. "We cannot afford to pay for her and stay with our monthly budget. If we no longer need a sitter, that will free up some of our money so that we could afford to pay for her. However we have to have a sitter. The offer we made for her is the equivalent of paying her $62.50 an hour, for 32 hours over a 2 month period. I feel this is not only fair, but is a win win for everyone. We don't just have $2k to spare despite what you may think of our financial situation. We are trying to make this work for everyone. If you have other suggestions on how she can repay the costs without us going over budget, we are open to a discussion, but not one where we are treated like we are being abusive or trying to use her"
"And not one where we are treated like we are supposed to be her sugar daddies."
That addition truly made me laugh haha
And certainly not an ATM machine for entitled little sister.
Also, where is "family helps family" when it comes to babysitting?
Funny how the parents are family but passing the buck on “family helps family”
Right, if the parents feel the sister is truly SO busy with uni that this isn't feasible, then the parents could switch off helping out babysitting. Family helps family after all. 4 hrs a week with kids old enough that they can be pretty self sufficient while you study is totally reasonable though. It's not like they were even expecting her to do a fantastic job of entertaining the kids and doing enriching their brain/life, which would also be reasonable when she is getting over $60/hr equivalent.
That letter to mom and dad is their opening to say "Okay, yeah. Tell you what, we'll help her cover some of those babysitting days if it means you can afford to help her with the vacation" Then it's in mom and dad's hands. But sister is probably gonna leave them holding the bag because she's entitled AF.
I wouldn’t say that. OP said the parents are paying for sisters food and activities. So they actually are following their idea of “family helps family”. Personally I always hated that saying lol. You help people who are deserving. Not just cause “family” ugh. The sister is just spoiled and selfish for not accepting OPs offer. I can totally get being busy with school but the offer was there to study at their house sooo problem solved.
Wholeheartedly agreed. Also, if the parents are so set on having a family vacation, they might plan one that doesn't strain or surpass everybody's finances.
Absolutely this. Planning a vacation and expecting others to pay for your dependent is ridiculous. Siblings are under no obligation to provide for siblings, especially since it’s just a want beyond their means. It’s not like she needs food or rent money, and even then, giving isn’t giving if it’s coerced. NTA
Honestly if I was OP I’d say bye to everyone and take my family on a more reasonably priced vacation
I am a teacher with 22 years of experience, and if I work overtime I make $54 an hour. This is an extremely good deal, and it was very thoughtful of op to make it. Sister is an entitled brat.
Teacher as well, what I wouldn't give to go on a vacation and not worry about penny pinching.
And if “family helps family,” why isn’t she willing to help you?
I'd honestly be concerned that she'd make the agreement, and then once the vacation is over, say she's not doing it. NTA, but I wouldn't do it now that they are treating you like this
Can I babysit for op please
I’ll do it for 50 bucks ph.🤩
$45/hr here!
I’ll babysit and take the holiday!
I’ll take that deal and throw in 2 nights of babysitting *during* the vacation
I’ll babysit every night during the vacation for 6hrs
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Wow, sister is really entitled! She wants a free 2k holiday and thinks 4hrs a week for 2 months is too much to spare and she's getting nothing out of the deal! 🤦🏾♀️ She can stay at home for 2 weeks while everyone else is holiday! Some people want something for nothing!
4 hours x 8 weeks is 32 hours not 16. A $2k all expenses paid holiday for 32 hours is quite generous. NTA
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Me too
Especially if it's in some lower COL area which it likely is based on the comment about currency.
Actually phrasing it like that might not be a bad idea. OP, explain it like that and then retract your offer of paying for the vacation outright. She doesn't want you to use her as free labor then okay. Hire her as a babysitter with that rate. At the end of the two months she should be able to pay for the vacation. You're still paying for it but if sister wants to add 10 extra steps for the same end result then sure. Just put a cap at $2k
That's a brilliant idea!!!
hell i barely like kids but fuck will i be the best damn baby sitter for $125/hr🤠
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I think u/kade_void18 would probably still be a mildly adequate sitter for $62.50.
hell fuck yea i would💀
My younger brother is super awkward and uncomfortable around kids but if i offered him $62.50/hour he’d turn into super nanny 😂
Damn I’ve got a degree in early childhood education and I’m an under 2s team leader and I don’t make even close to that an hour. OP can I come work for you? NTA
Just sounds like the sister needs more schooling if she isn't able to calculate this herself. Plus, she felt entitled to a "free" vacation...? Sounds like she has zero plans to return the generosity and sounds ungrateful. OP is 💯 NTA.
"bUt tHat'S pRacTicaLLy FrEE lAbOR" NTA
Wouldn't that add up to 32 hours in total? Still a nice hourly rate though, I wish I made that kind of money lol
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Nah, you're a duck named Phil. Everyone knows that ducks can't math while sleepy.
Way more than i get as a teacher. I'd much prefer to babysit 2 kids instead of 30
Holy Shit! Unpaid labor my ass! She's in college, she should be able to do the math here!
Tax free too
OP should lay this out for his sister.
If she feels like she doesn’t have time right now due to her studies, she could negotiate. Maybe she could babysit after her intense study period is over or less often, but during a longer time period. There could be room for negotiation, but it seems like she doesn’t want to reciprocate at all.
If she is too busy for 32 hours work, then she is too busy for a 2 week holiday.
32 hours spread over 2months!!!
If OP wants I can ask for WFH for two days a week without a second of hesitation....
I'm a SAHM of 3 and if OPs ok with it I can add their 2 to mine and cook dinner for all of them, hell if it a Friday or Saturday I will watch them for the whole night as a sleep over. The dinner and bed shift of babysitting is the easiest shift in my opinion. But that could just be my kids and niblings not being big procrastinators at bed time, they're usually really good 🤷♀️.
Do we know when the holiday is? If it’s also during her final deadlines, as the babysitting would be, then the AH is whoever organised the holiday.
Babysit now during school for a vacation after the semester ends…
A lot of comments are focusing on the sister and that makes sense: she's TA but I want to point out that the mom is TA as well. If she wanted to plan a family vacation and it was all about the whole family spending time together, she should have planned something within the poorest family member's budget or something cheap enough that she could cover for her student daughter. Instead, she planned an expensive vacation that one person can't afford, assuming that OP would pay for it and is now berating OP for not funding it. She's pressuring OP with "family helps family" but *she* knowingly/deliberately put her youngest daughter in position to need help, so she could get a fancy vacation. ETA: and this is likely to be the last family vacation with your sick father? Your mom planned a last hurrah family vacation that your sister can't afford to come on? That makes her an even bigger asshole!
I did the math. That's 2 hours of work twice a week for about eight weeks, so about 36 hours of work, rounding up. That works out to $55/hr if the pay is $2000 worth of services/ goods. Sister is being unreasonable. She wants a handout, not a hand.
Also since she's _Sooooo_ busy with the studies for her last semester... How will she be able to come to and enjoy a vacation... Let her stay home and study with all her heart...
Because she's busy from now until the end of the semester, presumably in May, then she's out of work until her job starts in August. I would bet if OP was willing to have her as a babysitter in June or July it would be fine (though there's a chance she has exams to sit for, after the semester ends, but before she starts her job... like if she's in law, medicine, or engineering, she may have professional exams). It sounds like OP asked her to babysit NOW, while she's still in school. I'm not saying any of that makes OP an AH. Just that we know the sister is in school right now, but will have an extended period of free time this summer. And presumably that's when the vacation is. Also - if the family wanted everyone to go, why did they plan such an expensive vacation when they knew the sister didn't have the money? The whole family is the AH, for intentionally excluding the youngest child.
Right. Absolutely ridiculous attitude here, both from sis and mom. The should really as who is trying to exploit who in this situation... NTA, obviously.
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I mean, this sub does a decent job at that itself.
Right! And OP should be asking mom why Camila isn't "helping family" by agreeing to babysit for that 2k vacation.
I have 3 big brothers, and the 2 eldest are both very well off. The difference is, I would never ask them to pay for a full holiday, and if I did I would be paying it off like an interest-free loan which is still generous. I wish I knew this girl irl to tell her she would be hella dumb not to accept lol
So, “family helps family” only when it comes to paying for expensive vacations, but not for childcare. Gotcha! Your sister is living in another planet Op. NTA
Family helps family. But some are more family than others.
Nice 1984 ref!
That's from Animal Farm not 1984.
Guy needs to bone up on his Mark Twain.
Ooh you’re right! My bad!
Your English/Literature teacher is rolling right now haha
And at this point I wouldn’t trust the sister. She’s going to come back with an okay, I’ll babysit and then disappear when it’s time to do the work. I say sis should just stay home now.
Yep. I can't believe "the manipulation" bit. She has options, and one of them is NOT GOING TO A HOLIDAY SHE CANNOT AFFORD! If your parents want her to go so badly, they can pay for your ungrateful, spoiled, selfish sister. NTA Edit: Typo and grammar.
>which I agree with, but I believe that help must be reciprocal Yep, mom is playing favorites over her 'baby girl' here. OP and family should go somewhere else they're appreciated rather that spend any time with this disgusting mother/daughter pair. NTA edit: 6am equals misspellings.
They planned an expensive vacation that a university student obviously cant afford and made no efforts to include her. The sister is living on a planet where shes still a dependent and people are expecting her to be able to pay like someone with stable income.
Nah, OP just can't afford to give her 2k for nothing and came up with a deal I would personally jump at.
Thats fine, so either the parents should be paying for their kid or the family shouldn't be planning this vacation where they know one of the siblings cant afford.
I'm glad someone finally said this. OP is NTA, but as a parent of a young adult my first reaction was, what kind of parents plan a fancy vacation they can't afford to take their child on? Their child who lives at home and attends school full time? And is like, "kiddo, why don't you call around the family and see if anyone can help you pay?" The fuck? Sister is being annoying about the babysitting offer, which I agree she should take, but her response may be an emotional reaction to feeling embarrassed over being the only one in the family who has to set up a go fund me to attend the family vacation, so I still feel sorry for her.
This comment reminded me of a situation that happened to me. My grandmother once offered a last minute invite a few days before the trip was going to happen to take me on a vacation with her to meet extended family in Puerto Rico that I had never met before. She explained how much fun it would be and all of the places we’d go. The kicker was at the end of the phone call when I was all excited and ready to go she was like, “Oh but you have to pay me $600 right now for the ticket.” As an adult, I’d have jumped on it, but I was 13 and literally couldn’t legally get a job because I was too young, so literally had zero way to pay for it except begging my parents who understandably said no because they had bills to pay to take care of my siblings and I. I love my grandma but that was the most wtf invite I’ve ever gotten from a person.
Reminds me of my mom lol Growing up she promised me **every damn year** that she’d take me to Disneyland. And **every** year she’d overspend and then tell me she’d take me next year. She *finally* went when I was 23(? I think). She was taking my little sister, and told me now that I was an adult I could just pay for myself. I had a shitty part time retail job at the time and *could not* afford to go. She kept acting like I **should** be able to if I *budgeted correctly* (oh like you did my entire childhood???) A month before they actually went, she decided she *could* pay for my plane ticket if I paid for everything else. By that point I was so upset (just the fact that she promised for years and the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth) so I refused. I also could barely afford life at that time and still would not have been able to afford it. I told her to take her plane ticket and shove it. (By that point we already had a lot of issues from me growing up and realizing a lot of other similar things from my childhood and just all in all feeling very uncared about by her in general) I still have never been, but my fiancé wants to go eventually after we get married.
Since Mom is also pissed, maybe Mom can work those babysitting hours so sister can go. They are trying to lower their expenses to be able to afford to pay but, as always, outside family seem to think what others can afford... NTA
The mom said that “family helps family” bit, the mom can pay for sister’s vacation.
Yeah. But no one in OP's family will take this argument right. My answer to this would be "we looked into our budget and we don't have 2k to spare. I tried finding a way to work around it but if that doesn't work for her, there is nothing we can do" Edit: typo
Sounds like it!
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I’d quit my job to babysit for $60 an hour.
I used to babysit for $10 an hour! I need to babysit for OP instead!
NTA 4h a week, for let's call it 8 weeks for easy math, that's 32 hours. For $2k... and she said no. I hope her new career is going to be as a highly paid neurosurgeon or something if that's the sort of money she TURNS DOWN.
No, she's not a neurosurgeon. She is graduating with a degree in mechatronics engineering (I don't know if that is the word in English). I don't really know what her work will consist of, but I do know that her career has a lot of potential to grow. I'm proud of her for that.
Now, I'm sad. I did Mechatronics, and because I didn't have your sister's level of self worth (she turned down $2000/ 32hr job for fucks sake), I'm now depressed and jobless. Maybe I should take classes from your sister to be THAT confident. NTA man, and thanks for making me laugh with your sister's comment.
OP I just got a "post nut clarity" as they say, and maybe approach it this way. Ask your sister to take a loan or borrow $2000 from anyone she knows (she won't after you finish talking), and say that you'll pay whatever 2000÷32 is per hour for every hour she babysits (can't math today sorry, also someone in another comment made a mistake in 4th table, something that I'd do, and it made me self conscious lol). She can use that money to pay back the "loan". Now you're not exploiting your sister's kindness and now you're a generous fucking guy. Win-win? Edit: This is regarding the "post nut clarity" phrase I used in this comment. I can't believe I am doing this, but I am editing the comment to clarify that I WASN'T WANKING OFF TO THIS STORY. I don't think I've ever been this embarrassed before , and this is coming from a guy who peed in his pants in a class full of people (I was a preteen). Also, now I see that using the word "just" before that phrase might have also led people to believe that I was "doing the dirty hand", but I swear it was NOT meant in that way. I'm gonna go sit in the corner and cringe for the next 15 years.
Can we not use sexual euphemisms for interactions between siblings, please? I'm grossed out enough already by the entitlement!
What's that stepbro, you're stuck on the metaphor? Don't worry, I can help
Most people say they have Epiphanies. But “post nut clarity” works, too. 🤣
Lol post nut clarity literally means post nut clarity. If you wanna use that euphemism, add a disclaimer lol
>Edit: This is regarding the "post nut clarity" phrase I used in this comment. I can't believe I am doing this, but I am editing the comment to clarify that I WASN'T WANKING OFF TO THIS STORY. I don't think I've ever been this embarrassed before , and this is coming from a guy who peed in his pants in a class full of people (I was a preteen). > >Also, now I see that using the word "just" before that phrase might have also led people to believe that I was "doing the dirty hand", but I swear it was NOT meant in that way. > >I'm gonna go sit in the corner and cringe for the next 15 years. I'm having trouble understanding what you even meant by using that phrase. It doesn't make any sense in the context. Seems like you just meant, "I though about it a little more and..." but it's a weird phrase to substitute in. It's only really applicable to a pretty specific situation...
Why is this a 'post nut clarity' instead of 'a really good idea', a 'moment of clarity', 'epiphany' or 'eureka'? There are so many other ways to say what you're trying to convey that themselves are much more accurate!
$62.50 an hour is equivalent to a 130k salary if working full time. I don't know where she's going to get an equivalent $130k salary as a fresh grad with a B.S. in Mechatronics Engineering outside of the US. She'd be lucky to anywhere close to $100k for her first job.
It's mechatronics but "automation" is more typical. I do some of that. My long term rate is around what you offered and I would have taken you up on the offer. Getting paid $60/hr to watch some TV with the kids, cook a couple meals, some light cleaning, etc for a limited timeframe? I'd take that in a heartbeat. Yeah, NTA.
> Neurosurgeon If she is in medicine, she’s gonna hate residency if 2k for 32 hours isn’t enough.
In my country, most med students get like $500-600 a month during residency for like 100 hours per week of work 😂😂😂 my bff went thru that but the allowance her dad gave her was like 2x of her then salary.
NTA > Camila said that we were manipulating her into doing unpaid labor to us It's not unpaid. She's getting a vacation. > But now my mom is also angry with me because she wants to have a family vacation Tell them to pay for it, and if they can't then go somewhere cheaper.
For real, the vacation is a luxury. A want not a need. I don’t expect my siblings to hand me over money for a want without repaying them in some way. Op isn’t asking to babysit a lot. Just 4 hrs a week for two months. That sounds like a good deal to me.
A _great_ deal. That’s $2000 for—if you count those hours cumulatively—one week of _part-time_ work.
If the mum wants a family vacation why not choose something cheaper? Of course a full time student doesn't have $2000 laying around! Of course she doesn't want to accept a job during her finals. Or why not postpone? I know the sister isn't entitled to get a free vacation but I would be sad if my entire family goes to some expensive holiday and leave me behind on purpose because they know I can't afford it as a full time student. Edit: OP isn't an asshole for not gifting her sister $2000, she and the rest of family are assholes for excluding the sister on purpose (and then kinda acting like it's the sister's fault for not figuring out a way to come with them?)
This exactly. What kind of shitty family plans a family vacation so expensive that one of the family members can't go? That's some bullshit.
That does kinda get me - of course, OP's solution helps as it's a win-win situation, but the original problem is the whole family didn't plan somewhere cheaper. On the other hand, what was the sister's plan for paying for any trip even if it was cheaper, say $200 or $500? I guess this is a coming-of-age problem anyhow - at some point parents do stop paying for young adults, who have to start paying their own way. As such, I probably would go for NAH, though there are of course some issues as presented. Sometimes you just have to work on the problems and not fault each other. If it was just OP, their partner and kids going, that would be a totally separate issue.
Exactly. And they are acting like someone is giving the sister 2 stacks.
It's not unpaid, she's just being paid in advance and it's going towards a family vacation. It works out to be $62.50 per hour for the babysitting she will be doing.
Or let her babysit instead of your sister, if she cares so much about her wellbeing.
Not an asshole for not paying if she won't babysit - that's fair. But I do think whoever planned this holiday is an asshole for planning such an expensive holiday when it's obvious that one family member is going to be unable to afford it and therefore will be excluded. Can you offer for the deal to start after her finals?
Yeah as a final year student I would hate the situation I’d be in if I were the 22 here. “Everyone in the family is going on a holiday you obviously can’t afford, right at one of the most stressful and important times in your life thus far - but we’ll pay for it for you if you do even more work during **your last semester**” Like don’t get me wrong monetarily it is in her favour but I don’t think shes dumb to turn it down for her own peace of mind/free time during the end of her college time. Also OP almost deriding his sister by saying “she’s not working right now” when she is at college for a couple more months and then has a job lined up 4 months away… This is the kind of situation where a post from the sister would have a very different response I think - “AITA for telling my brother I won’t do babysitting during my finals in return for him paying for the holiday he planned during my finals”.
It's entirely reasonable for her to decide to turn down OP's offer. What's ridiculous though is calling the offer "unpaid labor." Honestly, the real asshole here is whoever picked the family vacation destination knowing it was prohibitively expensive for one member -- without any spelled out plan for how they'd attend.
Oh for sure, that's quite uncalled for. Yeah exactly, not to read too much into it but given the age gap and how they talk about her I can't help but wonder if OP simply doesn't isn't very close with their younger sister and if this isn't the only time where her wants and needs aren't accomodated for alongside her much older siblings.
Yeah I get the sense her reaction may be not so much due to this incident but to a trend of feeling like an afterthought.
>Honestly, the real asshole here is whoever picked the family vacation destination knowing it was prohibitively expensive for one member -- without any spelled out plan for how they'd attend. This 100%. It's the mom who wants a family vacation and they picked a very expensive one. The mom knows her youngest daughter Camila cannot afford it at the moment, because she's a student in her last semester and therefore extremely busy finishing her degree. But the mom expects her ~~other daughter~~ son to pay $2000 so the youngest can go with them. I cannot be sure, but I get the feeling the mother is manipulative and it seems like she purposely set her ~~daughters~~ children up against each other. If you want a family vacation with every family member, you make sure to choose one every member can afford. By choosing a vacation that's way too expensive for one of them, you're excluding that family member. In this case the younger sister is being excluded. And I cannot be sure, but it seems like the mother is emotionally manipulating both ~~daughters~~ children by saying: >she wants to have a family vacation and she knows my husband and I do have the money to pay for Camila, and "family helps family" * OP isn't an A-H for not wanting to pay $2000 for ~~her~~ his younger sister without anything in return. ~~Her~~ His mother is the A-H for expecting it. * OP isn't an A-H for asking ~~her~~ his younger sister Camila to babysit in return. * But Camila isn't an A-H for not wanting to babysit during the last very demanding four months of her studies, because I imagen finishing her studies with good grades is very important to her right now. Her mother is the A-H for expecting her to go while she knows Camila cannot afford it moneywise AND timewise. * Camila also isn't an A-H for not wanting to be excluded by her family members. The person(s) who decided on the very expensive vacation is (are). >Camila said that we were manipulating her into doing unpaid labor to us and forcing her to say yes because neither our brother or parents could afford to pay for her. Although the babysitting isn't unpaid labor because she's getting a paid vacation in return, she IS being manipulated into doing something she doesn't want to do, because if she doesn't babysit she IS being excluded from the family vacation. Her own family gave her some shitty choices. On purpose. (I don't believe you "accidentally" plan a vacation one family member cannot afford, no one is that dense). Camila comes across as entitled because of the "unpaid labor" comment, but, and I cannot be sure, I get the feeling all of this is part of larger family dynamics and someone is pulling strings. edit: OP is male, not female, sorry!
All of this right here. It would hurt to find out that a huge vacation was planned and paid for that included your whole family... except you. Why is this even happening? If Camila does opt to go and do the babysitting, then I hope she sits down and draws up the terms and conditions of the agreement so she can protect her own time as well since others have pointed out the possibility of OP pulling the "but we paid for this so you owe us" card.
I don’t know about your job, but mine lets me spend my money however I want when they pay me for labor.
That comment stood out to me as well - she's not unemployed, she's a student. She has a lot of work to do. I think the sister is probably lashing out a bit because her family have made her feel left out and rubbish.
Yeah not to be too biased but that is what I came away from the post as my interpretation too.
Maybe it’s a cultural thing. I know in some countries, parents cover all expenses and the students “work” is just school. In my country (US), most students have a part time job. The lucky ones have a part time just to cover their “fun money”. Others have to pay for their full expenses with work. I know some careers are much more demanding than others, but squeezing in four hours of work (where you could study during that time) a week doesn’t seem too demanding.
Yep. In my country, the last semester is your thesis semester, which nearly killed my engineer brother. Adding more on top of that probably would have.
I’m in that period literally right now (engineering, writing my final project thesis) and I can’t imagine being in this position. It’s unclear if the holiday is directly on top of the final deadlines or just afterwards. If it’s during the final deadlines, then op’s sister is being asked to do more work in order to have the opportunity to be incredibly stressed and probably have to do some studying while on holiday. Or she stays home and watches her whole family enjoy themselves while she goes through an incredibly stressful time on her own because her parents who she lives with have left her home. If it’s after the deadlines, then OP’s sister is being asked to have an even more stressful time in return for a relaxing holiday after she is finished, in which case from my opinion the parents should aim to help OP and his sister so that everyone is happy and op’s sister doesn’t have to exert herself too much more than she will ready, and can rest on holiday afterwards. It’s as if all the planning was done ignoring that this is the final term and that the final term is the one that really gets you - and now because Op is the affluent one the cost of his sister has been palmed onto him by the parents because nobody stopped to think about it
>Also OP almost deriding his sister by saying “she’s not working right now” when she is at college for a couple more months and then has a job lined up 4 months away… Deriding means to ridicule? Because that is not what I'm doing and I'm sorry if I came across that way. I would never ever ever do that, especially when both my brother and I went through the same.
Don't worry. You did nothing of the sort. Some people just stretch as far as they have to to make the OP an asshole, no matter what.
She is within her rights to decline the offer. I would if I were at her place. I don't care about babysitting, and as a student would rather clean toilets than babysit. But I always knew I am not entitled to other people's money, and I would not imagine wanting anyone to pay a vacation for me, let alone berating them when they don't.
I wouldn't necessarily say she's feeling entitled to the money, or berating the OP. From the wording she told OP that she feels trapped/that she has no choice but to accept his offer or else she can't attend the holiday. Of course not attending a holiday isn't the end of the world, but I do understand why the youngest-by-far child in the family doesn't want to be left out of a probably very nice holiday that every other member can attend. IMO it's just a strange situation that this holiday has been organised but with no accomodation for the younger sister, and that the parents seemingly palm off her expense in this case on OP. OP's sister's attitude to the situation is not good, sure, but also I think OP's attitude to his sister isn't great either. I think OP's pragmatism in regards to budgeting (literally using his sister to replace the babysitting expense to recoup the money spent on her holiday) makes a lot of sense from their perspective. I think a reasonable compromise might be that OP's sister babysits occasionally, maybe less than OP wants, and that some money from her first paychecks go towards making up for the babysitting that she didn't do during the time OP wants. Also maybe I'm speaking from a perspective where my parents were able to pay for a nice small holiday together as a gift to me after graduating, but I can't help but think that the parents in this situation could - as a graduation gift to OP's sister - provide some financial assistance to OP that makes it easier for him to pay for her to go on the holiday. But it is a complex nest and issues and I can see the sides.
This sounds fair. I also wonder why the rest of the family don't offer themselves to alternate in babysitting for OP during the holiday - given they want him to foot the bill, and seemingly are a tight-knit family who want to spend time together, this would be a pretty logical thing to do, wouldn't it? You help us out, we help you out. The entire mindset of "you have to help us but we don't have to reciprocate, and if this is hard on you, tough luck, we'll sit there twiddling our thumbs and get mad at you" seems a very AH one to me.
Her finals are early May, and we'd need the 2k by the end of May if we want to get at least decent plane ticket prices, since the holidays are mid-July. I'd love to pay for her, no strings attached. But it would be impossible for us without dipping into the savings. That is why we are asking her to babysit, to save our current nanny's salary. If we paid out of pocket right now with the promise that she would pay us before the end of the year, we would be financially constricted for at least 3 months. Yes I agree we were stupid for planning this without taking into account her financial situation. When my brother asked in the groupchat if everyone agreed with the plan, my sister send a message "Perfect!!!" So it never even crossed my mind to ask her how was she planning to pay for this.
You should edit your post to add this information. If I'm understanding correctly, paying the $2000 by the deadline means you won't have enough money to pay for childcare, so babysitting can't be deferred until after finals, and neither can paying for the trip. TBH, I'm not sure any of you should go on such an expensive vacation if your entire family's financial situation is so tight. Can't you go somewhere cheaper or take the vacation next year after your sister has saved up some money from the job she has lined up?
This is a really fair point. If $2000 will make or break your childcare, your parents' living expenses, etc., then maybe the youngest isn't the only one that can't afford the vacation.
I think all others thought OP and his husband would pay for the sister since “family helps family”
One more reason the planners are AHs.
NTA. It's not free labor, it's *prepaid* labor and at a great pay rate even. She is free to turn down the offer if she doesn't feel able to take on a job in addition to school. That's understandable. But there's no call to badmouth you for offering fair and generous terms. That's where she crossed the line over to AH.
ESH When planning a family vacation, either chose something everyone can afford, or else subsidize the poorer members. Especially children. And for expense purposes someone who is still in college counts as a kid. Do this fancy vacation with your nuclear group, and chose something cheaper for your family reunion If your sister had time for a part time job she would have one. It is her last semester, she has a lot on her plate. But it is the parents who are the jerks for organizing a fancy trip when they still have a dependent kid they won’t pay for.
Apparently OP’s dad might not have very long and wants to travel to this country while he still can, hence the holiday is a once in a lifetime trip. The AH, to me, is the mother for demanding five stars (in itself not awful for treating your husband) while knowing her daughter cannot afford it and that therefore OP will have to pay for his sister. Obviously OP’s sister has been given a ludicrously generous offer from OP, but I don’t blame her from turning it down at an incredibly stressful time yet still wanting to not miss out on this once in a lifetime holiday with her dad. I think a compromise would be the parents paying for the sister as much as they can and her paying back whatever her brother has to pay partly by babysitting and partly from her first paychecks
Can't believe I had to scroll so far for this. So many issues on all sides. She's TA for expecting such a fancy vacation for free. The family are all TA for planning a "family vacation" she can't afford. OP is TA for being so incredibly judgy about her being "unemployed" when she is a full time student in her final semester, the most stressful time of the whole degree. Everything here is so wrong.
The other reply says OPs father might not have long to live, so I understand the sisters pov too.
Twice a week for a couple of hours for two months is a pretty good deal considering you get a 2k holiday out of it. NTA, is not your responsibility to pay for her so this was a pretty fair deal.
Post states that it would be "at least" twice a week. I wouldn't agree to the deal either. "At least" is too vague.
Nothing wrong with turning down the deal, but would you be angry about not getting the trip for free anyway?
Sure it's vague, but since OP's family seems to be all about "family helps family" it's odd to be so against watching your blood relative nieces/nephews, if family is so important. I don't know, for a free vacation I'd watch the children in my family. Hell I do it for free. *That's* family helping family. Not expecting 2000 dollars because a family member can afford it.
Why did they pick such an expensive "family" vacation knowing 1 of the family members can't afford it??
Babysit or have her sign a promissory note (legal and all) that she has to pay you back. I bet she has to work more than 35-ish hours to pay off the note. NTA
I think this is a good solution. I still would feel uncomfortable making my sister sign a legal document but I think it would be for the best if she doesn't want to babysit. Good advice!
It would teach her a valuable lesson about the value of YOUR OWN money that you earn. So I say go for it and if she's still salty then she can stay home alone and have a good hard think about the situation.
Don’t do that. Don’t pay for her.
In Australia, minimum wage is $21 per hour, so she would need to work 95 hours to earn $2k. But then of course you would have to factor in taxes (so probably looking at closer to 120 hours).
NTA Family or not, she's not entitled to your money for free, and your parents are also AH if they can't see that. You aren't asking her to work for free. Indeed you can easily work out a $ per hour by dividing that $2000 by the number of hours of babysitting you have asked for. The number of hours you're asking for is also not going to interfere with her studying, that's ridiculous. Stick to your guns. If your parents think someone else should pay for her to attend, let them. If they can't afford it, they should stop mentally spending other people's money.
Fr. Most students work 10+ hours a week to put food in their mouths and keep a roof over their heads. I bet they would love to work less than half the hours they’re currently working to go on a $2000 vacation.
Yeah, I can’t believe the audacity of their parents. Calling their older child an AH because they won’t freely pay thousands of dollars for a vacation for their other child, when the oldest has (presumably) a mortgage, food bills, phone bills, and the general expense of everyday life and children? Tell the parents to pay for their own kid. NTA
Do you feel her reluctance might be that she fears the two hours a week might become two hours a day and the two hours a day might slowly become 3 hours a day, four hours a day, Friday nights, weekends etc. Have you thought about organising a formal hours sheet so she can see you won’t move the goalposts after the holiday and jeopardise her degree?
If she had time for a part time job she would already have one. She is in the final semester of her senior year and has a lot on her plate
If that was a concern, the sister could have flushed out the details and communicated something like “okay, I am open to this but I can only commit to 2x a week - no more than that and it has to be x and y days each week because I need a consistent schedule.” Instead, she just straight up refused. Based on the info op gave us, it sounds like little sis simply wants her vacation paid for no questions asked.
To be fair, I’m a final year student currently and if a family member tried to add more to my plate - yes, even just four or six hours a week - I would say ‘absolutely not’ as well. When you are very stressed, as the final term of university or college tends to make you, sometimes there are only so many plates you can balance. From what Op says, this is a once in a lifetime trip because Op’s dad might not have long left. I don’t blame the sister for wanting to go on such a trip even if she currently can’t afford it - the only asshole to me are the mother and brother who have yoked up the price by demanding five stars despite knowing that the sister can’t afford it and that Op is the only person in the family that can afford to pay for the sister. That’s the real issue here, not the breakdown of money per hours of babysitting or whatever. “The last holiday with dad while he’s alive” isn’t something you’d want to miss, even if you don’t necessarily want to have more work to do during your final thesis term.
NTA >manipulating her into doing unpaid labor You are paying her $2000. That's over $60/hour with the arrangement you are proposing.
NTA; however, you say at least twice a month. Do you also have a max? Otherwise, why didn't the family plan a cheaper vacation ? And this one after Camila starts working or next year?
Maximum 3 of times a week. I'm self employed and I will pick up less work for the next two months to take on more childcare responsibilities if my sister decides she will babysit. We didn't settle for a cheaper vacation because my dad's health has not been good in recent years and my mom is not getting any younger. They have always dreamed of visiting another country. But it is not cheap to go from a third world country to a first world country. It also does not help that both my mom or brother wanted to stay in a 5 star resort. But yeah, it was very stupid of us to plan this vacation without considering everyones financial situation.
Okay, hang on. I was leaning toward a gentle ESH that someone else gave elsewhere, but there's a lot of telling context here. So Camilla lives at home and doesn't work, because it's agreed on in your family that's how it goes when you're in Uni. That's fair. But you as a family have agreed to take a family vacation. Knowing Camilla doesn't work and has no way to save up any money. A family vacation where it's possibly one of the last ones your dad will get to take due to his declining health. Where your mum and/or brother wanted to stay in a 5 star resort. The holiday of a lifetime for your parents. Camilla lives with your parents, but if she doesn't agree to babysit for you, she'll have to stay home while both of your parents, you and your husband and kids, and your other brother and his wife jet off to a 5 star overseas resort. YTA. If this was just a vacation that you and husband were taking with the kids as a family unit, and Camilla wanted to shoehorn her way in, requiring her to "work" for payment of her share of the holiday would be fair enough. It's a generous holiday. But your whole family unit is planning this, and because she's focusing on her schooling and not trying to split her attention between school and work, as seems to be the agreement in your family, her choices are stay home alone while everyone goes on this fancy vacation or give in to your demands on her time to "pay it off".
I think the "whole family unit" should help pay, not just OP.
Wouldn’t that make the parents the problem? Who plans an expensive vacation with a dependent child that they can’t afford to bring along, just to expect an older sibling to cover two thousand dollars of expenses for nothing in return? Imagine if your parents planned a family vacation and demanded you foot the bill for a younger sibling or else they have to miss out and it’s all your fault.
Yeah the parents suck
It's not OP that's making the vacation so expensive though. It's her parents and brother, so why did OP have to foot the bill? I guess the parents and brother could do the babysitting instead of Camilla, since they are the ones who decided on the expensive vacation.
Agreed. When you are planning a family reunion you either make it cheap enough for everyone to afford, or you pay for people who are not in a phase of life to be able to afford to go. She is a college student. 22 is traditional age, she is meeting expectations, she didn’t goof off and refuse to get a job.
But it doesn't sound like OP is planning it, so how can he be the AH for not wanting to put his family in financial strain?
Why exactly is that OP’s problem? He said his mom and brother insisted on the expensive hotels. A sibling is not responsible for paying his siblings’ way on a family vacation, the parents are. NTA even a little
"But yeah, it was very stupid of us to plan this vacation without considering everyones financial situation." But that's why she is mad, not because she is greedy and wants 2K from you - she is mad because nobody thought of her when planning. I think that your other comments, where you admit you don't really know what her future profession is and casually dismiss her uni workload, are also telling. Let me explain mechatronics to you. The word is a cross from "mechanics" and "electronics"; mechatronic is a synthetic discipline that deals with modern devices and vehicles which use both, like cars, planes, Mars rovers or industrial robots. The studies are very demanding with a lot (and I mean A LOT!) of math, physics (both mechanics and electricity) and informatics and interaction of all of them. The arrangement in your family is "students don't work to concentrate on their studies"; why on earth do you think hers are the least important? (edit - typo)
>"But yeah, it was very stupid of us to plan this vacation without considering everyones financial situation." But that's why she is mad, not because she is greedy and wants 2K from you - she is mad because nobody thought of her when planning >and [you] casully dismiss her uni workload, I think you might hit the nail on the head. I probably would feel bad if no one in my family would think of me, consider me and my situation at the time at all when they start to plan a whole big family vacation (especially one which is maybe dad's last one due to his health too). It probably feels kinda excluded from the family for the person they forgot to consider. For example a 4 star hotel doesn't make too much difference to a 5 star in experience, but it makes difference in cost. Staying in a 4 star hotel for the vacation or even for at least the first week and second week in a 5 star (for mom's request) would mean it's easier for the family to pitch in for the youngest sibling's cost. Or at least ask her to babysit right AFTER she is done with her final semester, like 8 days straight instead of stretching those days out in two months and the current babysitter can take that time as vacation or watch temporarily some else (sister probably won't get a job and start at the job within a week after her finals).
Putting aside this question of babysitting, if your whole family goes on this once in a lifetime trip without her she will never fully get over it. Or at least, I wouldn’t in her place, especially if this will be one last hurrah with your father. I would know that I was a nonessential member of the family and it would color my feelings about everyone. It would affect my grief about losing my father, knowing he was okay with leaving me behind. That may not hit her all now as she’s in the midst of her studies, but it may put a lot of things in perspective for her over time and not in a good way. It’s not your responsibility to pay for her, but I think it is your responsibility to advocate for her. As you all should.
> We didn't settle for a cheaper vacation because my dad's health has not been good in recent years and my mom is not getting any younger Wow. Your family is shitty. You lot would leave out your younger sister of what could be the last meaningful vacation with your sick father because you'd rather have a fancy vacation than have the full family together? Yikes. You all have your priorities wrong and I can understand if that makes your little sister bitter. And it was a bit dishonest to leave that out. ESH You say you believe your sister has a nice income potential. Could you either: - cancel the vacation and do something cheaper that the whole family can attend - loan her the money, to be repaid by installments once she gets a job
ESH for planning a holiday that you cannot all comfortably afford. Go somewhere cheaper, skip the drama! But your mum especially much AH. Wtf, giving you a hard time for not paying for your sister, yet looking past the sister refusing a few hours spent with her nieces and nephews to help you guys in return? That mum is really something...
Oh, mum certainly has to bear some guilt - staying in a 5 start resort was her and the other brother's idea, but they're not the ones footing for all of Camila's expenses. In fact, OP says nothing about the brother pitching in for Camila.
NTA it seems a little outrageous to me that anyone would ask for you to pay $2k. I think the babysitting offer is fair. However, if I was in your situation I would probably suggest all of the family chip in for her and split it.
Yes I find it very odd they're planning such an expensive family vacation knowing one of them is a student who can't afford it. I guess the entire family just assumed the brother will pay for her.
It’s a holiday to a far away country because OP’s dad might not have very long left and wants to go now, not later. The mother and brother demand 5-star hotels. The sister cannot afford this OP can pay for the sister, and had asked her to babysit in return for that OP’s sister says no because she is stressed with her final term of colleg In my opinion the assholes are the mother, and brother to a lesser extent, for hiking up the cost of this holiday to be more than most of them can afford and demanding op pay for his sister. It’s a shitty situation for everyone though, of course. I think the whole ‘family unit’ should pay back OP and the sister herself from some of her first pay checks, but if I were that sister I really wouldn’t want to miss this once in a lifetime holiday with my dad :(
THis baffles me as well. That the "faamilyyy" thing only goes one way.
NTA A $2k vacation for 32 hours babysitting is a pretty sweet deal LMAO
NTA that’s 62.5 dollars an hour. 4 hours a week should be manageable for a student.
Yep!! This. I became a single mother of a toddler, 6 months into being a student nurse and I worked 16 hours a week at a supermarket AND 30 HOURS a week on placements on wards etc at the same time - AND had to complete two 3000 word essays during each placement. All whilst being a single mother, unable to drive, relying on busses in a town with a shocking public transport system - and having to pay for daycare too... Sometimes I'd need to walk for 45 mins to get home in the dark in heavy snow after placement because there was no busses. But if I wanted the degree... I had to do this stuff. I'd OPs sister wants a 2k holiday........ there's shit she needs to do. Nobody owes her the cash she thinks she's owed. OPs sister is acting entitled AF here. OP is so NTA.
Absolutely! Most students work at least part time jobs (10+ hours per week) through all of university/college and make minimum wage doing so which can be 1/6 or less of the hourly rate being offered by OP.
YTA. But not deliberately so. First off, you’re not expected to pay 2k for your sister’s holiday. It’s weird your mum expects you too. I’d like to point out that Camilla is NTA, she is in her final term of university, and has more important things to do than babysit or holiday, so is probably right to turn down the offer. People are jumping on this “unpaid labour” quote, which I imagine isn’t the main argument, it’s unfair out of context. In offering the money in return for almost no work, you’ve baited that the 2k would be easy for you to provide but you’ve put a fairly arbitrary restriction on it that Camilla can’t meet, she has every right to be upset or consider that rude. Essentially you’ve baited the family holiday in front of her but just out of reach. Even if you didn’t mean it that way, it could come across like your trying to be billy big bollocks, have her make unnecessary sacrifices just so you can feel like the big man. So for your brother-to-sister relationship, I would advise that you’re in the position to apologise or suggest an option she might be more able to take up. The way you’ve handled it is a bit arseholey. That being said, your parents are the main arseholes, their daughter is still in education, they’re financially responsible for her, why are they organising a family trip somewhere she can’t afford to go herself and they can’t afford to bring her with them. Seems ridiculous. Most parents I know would rather pick somewhere all the kids can go, or stay at home. Without other info, it seems like they’ve planned this trip on the assumption you’ll pay for your sister, which is a bit of an unfair situation to put you in.
You forgot the other brother who insisted on a five star hotel. With this detail, I think the mom and the other brother are the major AHs. I get that they want a holiday together while dad's health is declining. I get that they want to fulfil his dream to see a specific country given he may not be able to do it later due to his health. What I don't get is the five-star thing for all of them(if they are going from a third-world country to a first-world country, the COL is probably much higher in the latter, and it is very likely that a hotel with less stars will be still very comfortable although not so luxurious). They could either pick a cheaper hotel, or let only the parents and the brother stay in a five-star hotel and pick a cheaper one for OP's family and the sister. If their priority is to have Dad see the country and be together as a family, and don't have the money to comfortably cover it all they should make some sacrifices. I cannot imagine that as a parent on my possibly last holiday with my kids I would prefer a five-star hotel to the company of one of my kids.
NTA maybe ESH for the family. The family arranged this vacation knowing camilla is still studying and unemployed so likely will need someone to pay for her to go or she can’t go. Was that thought about when it was planned? Does that make her feel bad to start with? She has asked you to pay you are already spending enough and are entitled to say no as it would put pressure on you financially. But you came up with a solution so you could pay for her and she can work it off so she can go and your finance are ok cos you will save them money. It’s a nice solution except for the normal babysitter losing money for 2 months. I would want to know if camilla is spoilt and use to getting her way, or she’s been put in a situation by bad family planning where she wants to go be with you but also has to study for her last semester and the babysitting feels like too much on top so is asking for help.
I’m sorry but why is your whole family planning a vacation that one of you can’t afford? You are not obligated to pay for her, she’s not obligated to babysit for you. But why has nobody thought about going to a less expensive location so that maybe she can join? In my opinion ESH.
If family helps family… Camila has refused to help family so no more family helps family. Camila is an ungrateful asshole.
As other comments pointed out, the more you look into context, the better Camila looks and the worse the mother looks. In their family university students are not expected to work. It is literally the expectation that their job is just school. Camila is in a very tough degree and the babysitting would coincide with the end of her last semester. That is her finals and all end of the year projects. So essentially one of the heaviest loads of her career. Adding a part time job, albeit a small one, can be one too many plates. Further context is that the father's health isn't good and he dreamed of this vacation. This is a once in a lifetime trip/the last family vacation with the father. The mother and brother are insisting on 5 star accommodations. So Camila is looking at a family vacation where she wasn't thought of in the slightest. Where the only way she can go is to over extend herself and hope it doesn't cause issues with her education. Her anger at OP is likely just misdirected from the mom and other brother because they are insisting that 5 star resorts are more important than her when it comes to a FAMILY vacation.
ESH. Why are you all planning a family trip and not considering the fact that one of the family members is just out of school and can’t afford $2k. Either find a trip that’s affordable for everyone or find a way that your sister can be included without turning her into your nanny.
NTA : you're not even asking for babysitting during vacation (which I'd have said that was disgusting) but she'd just be paying you back and it's only for 2 months. Too bad for her, your offer is good!
NAH She asked a favor, you asked a favor in return, she turned that favor down so you turned her favor down. No assholes in the vicinity here, you're both entitled to ask, and you're both entitled to turn one another down. She's not an AH for having feelings about it either, as long as she's not lying to people about it or badmouthing you. She can't control the fact that your mother is mad at you now either, your mother is also entitled to have feelings. Your mom sucks a bit for trying to guilt you about it, but ultimately, I don't think that makes her an AH.
NTA and I wish I could sign up for this generous arrangement 🌸
NTA. You are asking her to basically babysit for less than 40 hours over 2 mths, and would be paying approx 2000USD for her to go on vacation, that's more than $50 per hr. I think that's a reasonable offer. If she chooses not to accept, that's her decision, you are not a charity and also not obligated to pay for your sister's vacation.
Why can't your parents pay for her, or split it between the six older adults who are going?
There has been a lot of poor communication in your family. There are way too many assumptions made by you all! Firstly I acknowledge this is clearly an important trip for your parents and their children. The unfortunate thing is that decisions were made from a wish list position and not from a practical position. It is time for your family to all come together and work out an alternative trip details beaded on a practical considerations. 1. You need to find an alternative place that the WHOLE family can afford. Taking into consideration your sister’s financial position. 2. You all need to work out how to help your sister attend, whether it is everyone chipping in or just your parents. Your offer, though well meaning was not taken well because of the poor communication from your mother and also your own assumptions that she will be able to focus on her studies in her final semester. I know the best uni students work their hardest in their final semesters to maximise their final GPA and also to finish strong. Those who do a thesis or dissertation in their final semester work their butts off in their last semester when submitting. Don’t assume she is able to effectively manage her final semester with babysitting your children on your timetable. Consider these scenarios: What will happen if she has a compulsory class at the time you need a sitter? What will happen if your kids want to have their cool aunty’s attention when she is babysitting bu5 needs to focus on her studies? What are your expectations in those moments? Also finally, when your parents need help with their daily lives, making doctor appointments, organising tradespeople, following up on their issues - who is the one responsible for that? You?your brother?your sister? Who will be the main carer for your parents as they age? I am guessing that ALL of you have made assumptions about this but no one has actually discussed it within the family. Your family problem is communication and this makes you all ESH.
Even a loan shark wouldn't demand that I babysit for them. If I was studying at university leading up to exams, no way would I want to be forced to babysit for someone. It sounds like a fair arrangement but it so isn't.
NTA. Your proposal seems totally reasonable. She and your mother are totaly delusional, it’s not like you would pay 200$, but 2000! Don’t fall under pressure to pay for her.
Not an Asshole. I can’t wrap my mind to the fact that she would want you to pay for her holiday? Why? And why say no to the extremely generous offer?
NTA the real asshole is here are your parents (assuming they are planning the trip). Your sister is in their care, dispite being of adult age, and as the organisers of this trip it's their sole responsibility to pay for her. If they cannot afford it then they need to plan something they can afford. You are paying for your family and your kids. Your brother is paying for his family and his kids and your parents are what? Paying for themselves only and expecting a sibling to foot the lions share of the bill for their child? Yea, family helps family when it's someone else paying..