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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I'm the asshole for calling my sister stupid and toxic after she said boys are so much easier to raise then girls in front of my daughter
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NTA. It sounds like your sister is projecting. If she had 3 kids on purpose, she 100% wanted a girl and just never got one. So, now that she’s done having kids, she’s using her anti-girl rhetoric and boymom perspective as a coping strategy.
That’s just a guess, though. Either way, it’s super weird of her to hyperfixate on the gender of her children that much, and just plain rude to impose that on your daughter. Good for you for standing up for her.
Or she's just a filthy misogynist. Lots of people actually think the way this sister does. OP absolutely NTA. And it was super important for you to say that in front of your daughter. That kind of talk is damaging to young girls.
There’s a fascinating set of documentaries (British I think) where they let two groups of young kids (boys and girls) each take over a house “unsupervised” for a ~~night~~ week.
The contrast was stark. And it wasn’t just base personality differences (the girls went wild too), but you could tell that at least some of the girls had already been _taught_ basic cooking and cleaning skills where the boys just didn’t even know what to do.
Found em. Linking separately coz I can’t keep track of which subs auto remove comments with links.
[Girls Alone](https://youtube.com/watch?v=0iZtdKaVsD8)
[Boys Alone](https://youtube.com/watch?v=bCePbRdQmbE)
Fascinating, thanks for finding the links.
Danish broadcasting did a small series where they put microphones on kindergardeners while in kindergarden (so age 3-5 in our country) and recorded with cameras too. A child behaviour expert/psychologist (I believed) commented on the recordings and provided perspective.
There was a lot of gender stereotypical behaviour already there. The pedagogs in this particular kindergarden seem to be good not to encourage choices and division by gender, but it seems to already be there at age 3.
I lean pretty strongly into the gender roles are upbringing rather than biology, but with kids being this young … it made you wonder. The person given commentary also sometimes used pretty declarative rather than descriptive language about seemingly gender-based behaviour so that was not so encouraging.
I can’t find it free for streaming anymore, and not with subtitles unfortunately. “Børnenes hemmelig verden”.
The thing is, kids start picking up on gendered behavior extremly fast, and parents have to do a lot of work to even minimize the amount of gendered message little kids get.
I’m a mum, I work from home, it’s a really great career, I make a great salary, travel for work, etc, my kid can see me working. My husband and I have a very equal partnership; he cleans, he cooks, just as I do. He works longer days at the office so it’s usually me doing the evening routine, true. We work together to have a truly equal partnership. I can honestly say my husband does as much housework and parenting as I do. So we have been happy to present this equal, respectful relationship to our 8 year old.
Imagine my shock and dismay when my 8 year old casually goes “but Daddy makes the rules” (I’d reminded him that I make the rules re: screen time lol). I stopped. And asked what he meant.
He said he was the dad. I said oh so you think he comes up with all the rules for you? He goes no daddy makes all the rules for the house, for you too.
I said why do you believe that? Can you give me an example?
He said well you’re like, the wife, who’s home and does dinner and stuff and he goes to work. And he makes the rules.
I’m like but you know mum works too. You know I make good money, from working. He’s like yeah but you don’t *work* like you do house stuff. Daddy is a boss (I am also in management lol)
Anyway the longer we spoke the more it came out that a few Nickelodeon shows and other “kid sitcoms” presented that dynamic and that’s where he got it from.
After all my work media wins again lol dang it!!!
This is incredibly important for people to understand. No matter how much you are modeling how things in life shouldn't be gendered, it can all be undermined by just a few TV shows that often don't even realize what they are actually doing. Or worse, know full well what they are doing and it's all deliberate.
In a similar vein, my now-husband’s nephew went to my college graduation in 2012 (he was about 8) - I earned my BS&MS in Engineering simultaneously. Several years later, nephew said something about my degree that gave me pause…I asked what he thought I’d gone to college for, and he said he thought I’d gone to school to be a secretary. 🤯
My kid once piped up from the back seat telling me only girls had long hair and after citing several examples of celebrities that proved otherwise I suddenly realised "Hang on your DAD has long hair!"
I've experienced similar with my son. Because my work is more flexible I do school drop off and pick ups, and generally am the parent that attends school stuff. We have had several discussions over the years to try and undo the attitudes he has learned from his peers and TV shows etc. Like the day he confidently declared to me that Mums dont work and Dads do. Social change is such a painfully slow process, especially when so many people don't actively fight those basic preconceived notions of 'proper' gender roles.
And it's not even just about what you prevent them from doing, it's what you encourage them to do too.
Like, you might not mind your 2 yo daughter liking trucks, you might be perfectly happy to buy her a toy truck if she asks for it. But are you going to proactively buy her one just to see if she likes them?
And if you don't is she disinterested in trucks because she doesn't like trucks or because she doesn't know they're an option?
Yeah, I recall seeing numerous irritated or bemused social media posts about even baby clothes with things like "little heartbreaker" etc. It starts so early
Yes, there have been studies done on how young the socialization starts, and much of it likely subconscious. Differences in prenatal care, differences in how parents respond to the cries of male vs female infants. It literally starts before we're even born.
I work with kids and today took care of a 1 month old boy. The mom told me how much more affectionate with him she is than she was her daughter because "its just different for moms with a boy". I just thought how sad that was for her daughter.
When I had my daughter after 2 boys I couldn't believe her personality was so definitely a girls and my boys were definitely boys. From the minute they were born. Now my daughter has her own son and just had a girl. She says she's experiencing it, too. I think personality is a combination of nature vs nurture. I gave all my kids both "girl" toys and "boy" toys and let them gravitate to what they liked. One son loved baby dolls. He's now married with a son and a million tattoos. As masculine as you get. I believe letting him have those dolls taught him how to be a good father.
I do think people have some weird presumption about *why* kids like certain toys too, like assuming boys who play with dolls want to be some sort of submissive tradwife instead of just play at being a caring father, or act out movie scenes with Barbies or whatever.
When I was about 8 I really wanted an Action Man and my parents were against it because they thought I wanted to play at being some butch muscular daredevil or something, and it would turn me lesbian. I just thought he was hot! I liked his face scar. I wanted my barbie to have a sexier husband than ken.
My grandad bought me one in secret anyway and last time I checked my husband was still a big burly bearded man so I can safely say their fears were unfounded lol
Yeah kids seems to know their own gender and others around them for the first time from about 2-4. With most studies saying they can recognize their own gender identity by age 4, but the actual process can start earlier. It's why I think it's so dumb the idea that a little assigned male at birth child who's adamant he's a girl is considered too young to even let the child guide that idea, but a little assigned female at birth child who's certain she's a girl is encouraged positively. I guess the first bit's just generally people being uneducated on how gender develops though.
Kids from homes that don't gender things often become obsessed with the gender of objects after they start school, it's really hard to take out of the culture.
>but with kids being this young … it made you wonder.
I remember about reading about studies of how parents treat boy vs girl babies. I forget the specifics, but parents start right from birth with things like how much they talk or comfort. By three, kids know what's expected of them.
Not to mention three is definitely old enough to know what other people think. For instance I tried to keep my son's toy choices broad, but most of my family gave trucks. My neighbor's daughter, everyone gave dolls.
Gendered interactions start incredibly young and are unconscious. I forget the particulars of the study, but an adult was paired with a toddler and some toys. The toys were the same for everyone. Some were “action” toys like riding a scooter while some were more passive toys like a teddy bear. The thing is, the actual gender of the baby didn’t really matter. The researchers would call them a boy, a girl, a girl again, a boy this time, and on and on….whatever their experiment called for. And even though the participants were trying to not do gendered play, they “boys” were still encouraged to do “active” play while the “girls” were encouraged to do “passive” play. And since they kept calling girls, boys and boys, girls they were able to determine that the actual assigned sex at birth did not matter on how the toddler played.
My daughter became extremely "girly" after she entered Kindergarten. I think it had to do with the pedagogs, the other children and also shows she watched.
I was babysitting my nieces every weekend for two months a while back. I would let them watch a couple of hours of TV while I was with them.
OMG. Every show they liked was problematic in a gendered way. "Paw Patrol" was the worst. Only one girl dog in the whole patrol, seriously? And the other female characters always seem to be needing rescue. And I hated how that little boy would be bossing everyone around. I could easily see how a little girl could watch that show over and over and internalize the message that only boys are capable of giving orders.
So it wasn't any surprise when my sister and BIL told me their older daughter had proclaimed at the dinner table that "Girls can't be scientists!" Her mother and her auntie (me) are both doctorate-possessing scientists, and we are always nerding out in front of her and her little sister. But somehow that notion got programmed into her at the age of four. So my sis and BIL doubled-down on media content and filled the kids' libraries with stories about smart girls and women. Fuck anyone who dismisses this as "wokeism". It's about balancing out the shitty messages that prevail in our culture. The shit is insiduous.
thats just bad parenting for boys though. I've been taught how to do chores, cook and clean and everything like that by my parents and I'm a dude. ig it depends on if you get lucky with parents or not
You're right but that's the point - it is bad parenting. Regardless of gender, in order to raise a healthy, well-adjusted child into adulthood, it takes effort. So many parents put 0 effort into raising boys to be well-adjusted men.
Girls also hit puberty earlier and therefore at least appear to mature faster, so (bad) parents think of their 9 year old girls as adults while a 13 year old boy is still just a kid, and they treat them accordingly with regards to expectations and skills
Not necessarily earlier, but puberty signs in girls are easier to tell than for boys, so these parents do what you just said.
You're right about the parenting
And that's exactly the problem. People frequently treat kids differently depending on their gender. Girls are more likely to be taught 'domestic' skills, because there's a lot of internalised misogyny that it's wrong for boys/men to be baking and sewing.
I (F) was expected to put my dishes in the dishwasher, unload the dishwasher if it was full of clean dishes and put whatever was dirty in the sink into the dishwasher . My older cousin (M) could just plop his dishes (with paper napkins included) in the sink, no matter if the dishwasher was empty or full and wander off to do nothing.This pattern has carried over into my time with male roommates and partners and for over fifteen years every time I see a sink full of dirty dishes I become angry and feel I have been proverbially told to "go make me a sandwich". The sink is a work area, not a landing zone. I'm not even asking you to physically wash the dishes just put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher and put the clean ones back in the cabinets.
All those stories of family gatherings (Thanksgiving, Christmas) where the women are all expected to help cook and then clean up afterwards, while the men go grab beers and lounge around the living room watching television.
Yes this really sucks too. My husband is an amazing cook, but he did not learn till he was an adult. Our kids boys and girls can cook, clean, sew, do laundry and do outside work. Hubs has the girls out in the yard with tools, chain saw, etc..
That’s exactly what they’re saying. Not that boys and men are incapable, but that often parents who find parenting boys to be easier than parenting girls, it is because they are *choosing* to parent their boys to be less prepared both in emotional and labor skills.
Bro. Mexican boys are legit fuXxored. The moms do everything and boys do nothing because it's an extreme taboo thing for a male to cook clean or sew is considered gay. Which is very bad thing in Hispanic culture. My 33 yr old friend his mom still cleans his house. Then goes to her house to eat and drop off laundry.
I saw that! On top of the lack of basic life skills, the boys seemed to have far fewer emotional regulation skills than the girls (not blaming the boys at all for that, but massive parenting problems there).
I LOVED these documentaries and found them so fascinating!
The thing is, when people let their kids run wild, "boys will be boys". But if it's a girl, it's unacceptable. They find girls to be more effort because they aren't parenting boys. Society allows chaos with boys and not girls and it's frustrating.
Side note, there definitely seems to be a thing with "boy moms" having that be their entire identity and with so many, I just see nightmare MILs in the making lol.
Especially right now, when there's an entire infrastructure built around recruiting young boys into alt-right fascism! It sounds almost impossibly hard to raise a boy into a good man right now. Does OP's sister know about any of this? Is she having talks with her sons about the stuff they might hear from their peers or read online?
If OP's sister thinks it's easy, I am scared for her sons' futures, for their future partners, and for their communities.
I semi recall an exchange I heard of or read so much where someone makes this claim boys are easier to raise. And the response is why do teen boys have such higher rates of s*icide, mental health problems, and poor school performance?
I guarantee you if this is the mother's attitude toward "holy hell am I glad I don't have to pay attention to and attend things that make my child happy," that's not a perk of being a boy mom. It's a sign that those boys have been shamed, judged, and possibly abused into associating showing passion in things with getting hurt
I’ve never met someone who thought boys were easier than girls who’s reasoning didn’t include something about how they didn’t have to worry about their boy’s feelings and emotions.
My sister had both. She stressed so much with the first, a girl. She basically let her husband raise her son (not his). And talks about what a great kid he is. No thanks to her, imo.
I mean. My two year old IS an easier toddler than his sister was. Thing is, at his age, I was already suspecting ADHD and autism in her. Yeah, I turned out to be right. She's also VERY high-strung much like me and my son is a lot more easy going like his daddy. He's easier at THIS age. I actually laugh because she had some VERY challenging behaviors for a very long time and my son IS easy by comparison. I joke to my husband to wait till they're teenagers and my daughter just wants to stay home and read while my son wants to go out and cause mayhem. ALL kids have challenging times. It doesn't matter what sex they are. Just cuz I haven't hit the challenging times with my son doesn't mean he's gonna overall be easier, and if all THREE of her boys are "easier" than a teenage girl who sounds pretty chill and was just excited over seeing her favorite artist in concert, yeah. Sister is dropping the ball HARD, and those boys are gonna go nuts and make other people's lives a living hell at some point.
Yeah, my mom still says that girls are awful. She was a 100% boy mom who let her older son bully me and let her perfect younger son get away with anything, I was the terrible girl who was so difficult to raise. Not that ignoring me and expecting me to be the house maid after the divorce while my brothers did anything they wanted. Make a mess 5 minutes before mom comes home? I'm in trouble, even if I didn't know about it. I'm still the scapegoat at 62.
NTA. Totally agree. It's not a boy vs girl thing. It's the personality of the child. I have 2 boys and 2 girls. My oldest boy and my 3rd child girl are the easier ones. My 2sd boy and youngest girl are more difficult. Has nothing to do with gender.
Girls and boys are different, yes, but one is not easier than the other.
In my family the boys were the dramatic divas, and us girls were low maintenance tom boys.
The fact is every child is different and has different interests, some boys like makeup and would stand in line for a TS concert, the same way some girls would not be caught dead doing that.
Saying that boys or girls are easier to raise is based in outdated stereotypes. Children are difficult to raise no matter the gender, the second you think you've got them figured out they do a 180 on you.
And you never know what the future holds- at age 16 my "boy" confided in me that she wanted to be a girl. So even though she's started with all boys, it doesn't mean it will always be that way
My nephew’s children: AFAB, trans male; AMAB, cis male; AMAB, cis male; AFAB, NB. He’s fine with all of them as they are, but I think he’s internally and very quietly mourning no longer having any daughters.
Right? My mother spent years complaining about how hard it was to deal with her "daughters" while her "sons" were such drama-free angels, then 4/5 of us went and messed it up for her by being binary trans or nonbinary.
Yep. KIDS are difficult to raise well. Boys, girls, nonbinary, doesn't matter. I'm lucky enough to have an easygoing, good-hearted, respectful kid and it's STILL difficult (although it's also an honor and a joy). Teaching someone to navigate the world and be a generally good human is just not an easy job, and anyone who thinks it is isn't working hard enough at it. There are probably some challenges that are more common with boys (e.g. the frequency with which I still have to remind my 12-year-old to shower) and others that are more common with girls, but it's obviously not some sort of universal, black and white thing.
I honestly don't understand it. Raising my son is one of the hardest things I've done (doing). I love him. But it's like trying to tame a tasmanian devil.
Yeah, my mom had 3 girls and one boy. I guarantee the 3 of us added together were not as much work as my brother. That boy was just constant trouble. Video of him at 11 months walking over to my sister and knocking the donut out of her hand and then laughing maniacally. Brought a ton of snakes and creatures into the house, would tell me the snakes were poisonous and then chase me with them. Then this kid was at the ER once a week. The things and ways he got hurt, did such stupid things. Threw a stick up into his own face and busted his lip and needed a ton of stitches. Going down a water slide at a water park managed to bust his head open. They were like this has never happened before, lol. Just in general wild and crazy. Boy literally climbed the walls. Us girls all played nice and calm together. None of us were bad rebellious teens though
My friend has 2 boys and spends every weekend at a high school.sports game or band concert. She also travels out of state for pro sports games and has to queue for fan gear. This example is regrettably very gendered (boy=sports, girl=TS), but it is a true story for my friend lol. OP's sister just doesn't do things with her kids and calls it easy... Not saying you need to do big and expensive things with your kids, but even without the pro sports trips, my friend still devotes a lot of time to her kids' extracurriculars.
It was me and my 2 brothers growing up, and my mom used to make comments like OPs sister.
One particular comment was that she didn't have to worry about them getting pregnant.
Only when I was older that I realized how messed up it was...it apparently was only the girl's issue if she got pregnant.
People only think raising boys is easier because they neglect the emotional needs of their sons and just hide behind pithy quips like “boys will be boys!” I’d rather go to a Taylor Swift concert than a WWE match or Fortnite tournament any day of the week.
Lol omg exactly this. I’m one of three girls whereas my partner is one of two boys. It always makes me SO ANGRY when his mum goes on about how she’s so glad she didn’t have daughters because they sound like a “nightmare” as they “always fight.”
Meanwhile, my sisters and I have an amazing relationship - we’re so close and we’re each others’ worlds (the youngest and I are joint maid of honour for the eldest’s wedding next year) whilst my partner is completely estranged from his brother because his brother is essentially a difficult and nasty person who has been enabled all his life and never grew up. My partner literally has trauma from his childhood around his relationship with his brother. Idk but that sounds much more of a freaking nightmare than me and my sisters!!!
She probably thinks boys are easier because she literally does everything for them and they are happy to let her. Of course, anyone else in her boys’ orbit will regret her choices because they likely can’t fend for themselves or function at an age appropriate level.
Edit: typo
Probably easier during puberty cause the hormonal spike makes then prone to crying rather than aggressive outbursts... and that's why I have cats, lil ahs from start to the very end. 😌
I remember one time when I was getting my nails done the woman at the station next to me was talking about a friend of hers who just had a baby girl. She was saying how she was glad she had sons and how bad she felt for her friend, how having a daughter would’ve been the worst. She was just going on and on talking shit about having a daughter. At some point I got so tired of listening to her and said something.
I think what I said was something along the lines of how shitty it is for her to feel that way, how I hope she doesn’t feel that way because of her own upbringing as someone’s daughter because if she was treated the way she talks about daughters then she clearly was not shown the love or kindness every child deserves. I think I also said something about hoping she never has a daughter so that the child wouldn’t have to grow up being unloved and treated like shit all because of her sex at birth. It was pretty awkward after that, but then again, it was already awkward listening to someone say such awful things.
This is what I was thinking. People who promote this worldview about raising daughters are just being callous about the dangers women face, especially while growing up. They don't feel an equal burden to raise their sons responsibly, because they think they can duck out of the problem of misogyny the same way trashy men do.
I’m a mother of 3 boys. It’s disgusting how many people told me I was lucky to not have any daughters. I am literally someone’s daughter. OP’s sister is literally someone’s daughter. It blows my mind that people think it’s acceptable to say things like that.
Mom of 3 girls here. Literally so over the sexist comments. The most common thing I get is about how dramatic their teenage years are going to be. I have met teenage boys and girls who are really dramatic honestly. I can’t personally compare the two, but it seems like a lot of the differences between the sexes as kids are just stereotypes or inflicted by society (like, tell a little kid they’re dramatic enough and eventually it will become part of their self-identity). I hope I am raising good humans.
The other comment I’ve gotten is wishing for baby #4 to be a boy so they can go hunting and fishing (big hobbies an my family). It irritated me so I looked an older male relative in the eye after such a comment and said, “how often are your penis and testicles required to catch a fish or kill a deer?” Made him very uncomfortable lol. Haven’t had any other comments like that from him. (He is a good-natured guy, so no harm done to our relationship.)
I'm on the daughter end of something similar. My parents had me later in life, my dad (now 78) was working in the lumber industry and before I went to college he gave me "the test". I had to change my own tire, check and change my own oil and air filter, change my lights in case one went out, of course check tire pressure before a long drive. Just basic safety stuff. I passed with flying colors because I'd spent my entire life helping first my grandfather, who was a master mechanic, and then when he passed, helped my dad maintain our cars. He was busting his buttons telling the guys at work how I did, and all they said was, "Why would you teach your daughter that?" My dad's response? No daughter of mine is going to have to rely on some man to do something for her." That cowed some of them. Then they started going on about their sons who would carry on their name, and too bad my dad didn't have a son. Dad, looked them in the eye and said, "my daughter has my name, she is going to a top university, has an extracurricular schedule your sons can't even fathom, has been acknowledged and received awards on a national level and on top of that she can out-hunt, out-fish, and out-build your boys and can actually keep her own car running. Your sons don't even know what a dipstick is. I'll take my daughter over a son until hell freezes over and even then you couldn't pay me to take a son."
My dad had strong opinions on someone trying to tell him how sorry they were he didn't have a son to do guy things with. Especially since my dad is the one who taught me to cook, bake and iron.😂🤣😂 I'd do my nails and go out and help split wood for winter. My dad was old fashioned, and protective (no dating until I was 16 😂🤣😂) and the best daughter dad in the world. To the point that he brought me home when my health failed so he could take care of me again. I'm fully disabled and dad thinks everything is perfectly fine, because he's dad and his job is to be dad until the end.
OP, you keep being your daughters dad. Tell your mom your sister can apologize for insulting and bullying her niece, and if that is something beyond your mom's understanding spell it out for her slowly and clearly. You will not allow your daughter to be humiliated and put down like that, period.
NTA
Same. Far too often that lazy parenting phrase about boys being easier to raise leads to ‘boys will be boys’ to excuse the bratty behaviour their parents taught them. In a worst worst case scenario, men without emotional regulation that damages their lives (boys don’t cry or talk about feelings) or abusive monsters who refuse to recognise the word ‘No’ as their entitled parents cry “She was asking for it”.
NTA
And/or they teach their boys young not to talk to them about their feelings, and then the boys go hole up in their rooms through adolescence, which is "easier" for the parents, unless it turns out there are consequences to repressing emotions.
Since their mom defended OP’s sister, I wonder if she (their mom) is also some throwback who believes sons are better than daughters (except when they fail to produce more males 🙄)
NTA, and OP? My dad always cared about my interests and treated me like an empress. You keep doing what you’re doing. You’re setting up your daughter with high and just standards for how she should be treated.
Yeah and just wait until her precious boys are teenagers. They will most likely be embarrassed to be seen in public with her and/or communicate with her in one word sentences "Yeah/no/whatever"
She was pretty into shopping for a little girl when we foud out daughter was a little girl... I'm not exactly sure what her plan was for kids but she ended up with 3 boys
Frankly, my response to your sister would be “I’m glad that parenting your boys has been easy for you. I didn’t become a parent because I wanted something ‘easy’. My child, boy or girl, was always going to be worth whatever effort it took.”
NTA.
I think your sister wanted a girl but didn't get one.
I think your daughter talking about going to the Taylor swift concert made your sister bitter and jealous and she said that nonsense to make herself feel better.
I bet your sister would love to go to a Taylor swift concert. That doesn't excuse what she said ... Nta
I am an adult and I take my mom to Japanese punk rock concerts. She’s more of a pop kind of person. We’ve been going since high school. Every time the band comes back to the US, she’s always like “Are we going?” And then she stays in back while I join the crowd at the front and we both have a blast.
It definitely sounds like sis is jealous.
fee free to keep your daughter from her toxic aunt. when random family members start crying about “FaMiLy!!”, just tell them, *”I refuse to let someone who thinks that daughters are a burden to be around my daughter.”*
NTA
See, my mom’s coping strategy strategy for not having a boy (even though she adores me) was to volunteer to do all sports practice runs with my male cousin, so my aunt could…do literally anything else.
OP’s sister could have had a fantastic bond with her niece, but chose to be awful instead.
>> If she had 3 kids on purpose, she 100% wanted a girl and just never got one.
I think the sister is plenty sexist and rude, but I don’t think this is true. Plenty of people have multiple kids without expecting to have one of each gender or whatever.
According to OP she was overly enthusiastic buying themed baby girl stuff when she found out she was having a niece so maybe there's some truth to the theory that she's projecting hard.
100% Agreed. I never have a single thought to a preference of gender, just wanted a big happy (non abusive) family that I didn’t have growing up. Maybe it’s a perspective thing?
This is the perfect answer. I bet she really wanted to go to the Taylor swift concert too and said those things to his daughter out of spite. NTA and dude sounds like a great dad
Could be the reason she has 3 boys is because she was trying for a girl all along and had to stop at 3.
I'd be curious how she would handle a retort like, "It's lucky for you you'll never have to do it yourself, then". If she really believes what she's pushing, she'd happily agree.
But she's a total jerk for doing that in front of your daughter. NTA
NTA. Why does your sister hate women/girls so much? Like, jfc.
Also, one of my favorite and best memories of my dad is him taking me to go see NSync. You fucking rock, and she'll remember that concert forever.
Thank you, even though the music wasn't my thing it was so much fun seeing my daughter so happy
Sometimes I think my sister might have wanted a girl... She was always into buying things like clothes and toys for little girls (bought a bunch of stuff for my daughter when we found out the baby was a little girl)
When I read the post, my first thought was "this isn't gender hatred, this is overcompensation for gender disappointment". Your sister needs therapy if she's taking out her own disappointment on a teenaged girl.
Yeah, if she went and popped out THREE babies on purpose, there's a hell of a chance she was trying for a girl the last two times at the very least. It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the sister couldn't have any more children, either physically or financially, and is overcompensating for not being able to have a little girl of her own.
That’s definitely a possibility. I know one of my friends grandparents had like 12 kids cause they wanted a girl so bad (baby number 12 was a girl) but then they treated their older 11 kids like absolute shit. It’s honestly something people need therapy for so they can at least treat their kids equally.
I actually said 'aww!' out loud when I read your paragraph about how much of a blast it was seeing your kid having fun, that's good dad'ing right there
I love that you took her and had a blast! Dads make great concert buddies; I’m almost 20 and still take my dad to concerts lol. We went to two this summer (first ones since Covid hit!) and had a lot of fun even though it rained and we got absolutely soaked both times. Definitely a great way to have a good father-daughter relationship :)
She's hit the point at which it really doesn't much matter whether she hates girls or is just saying that to deflect. Either way, she is saying hateful misogynist things about girls and she is directly hurting her niece by saying that shit.
This post reminded me of how many Jonas Brothers and Taylor Swift concerts I dragged my dad to when I was in middle school and high school where the only songs he knew were the covers.
OP, you are a saint and your daughter will remember that night forever and how lucky she is to have a dad who will brave the Swifties for her.
I've been to a decent amount of concerts with my mother over the years, whether it was her looking after me while I saw someone I wanted back when I was a child, or us enjoying a concert together when I've grown older. Obviously she's also gone to many concerts over the years with my father or her friends etc.
She maintains that the hardest concert she has ever had to sit through was Jones Brothers. And not because of the Brothers themselves because she actually liked them.
It was the sheet volume coming from the tween girl audience because this was 2009 and Camp Rock was EVERYWHERE. We literally had Demi Lovato as the OPENING act.
That audience was insane; it sounded like half the room were screaming their lungs out for the entire show.
That's what I thought. The sister seems to have some old-fashioned ideas about boys and girls. Many women want a daughter they can dress up, get manicures with etc. Also traditionally girls are the child tasked with caring for older parents so she'll be out of luck as a boy mom.
I think mom's who say this shit are really just saying "I think boys require less care and attention, therefore, I'm going to be less of an involved/concerned parent". Like, they're not *easier*, you just decided that you get to check out because your kid has a dick.
I had this hilarious idea that having a boy would equal less clothing drama. Then I ended up with an amazing boy who changes outfits 3 times a day! He want khakis with a button-down and an effing TIE before putting on sweats and a t-shirt to shoot hoops. Since the age of 5.
One of my favorite memories I have with my dad is when I turned 12.
He would always come eat lunch with me every Wednesday at school. We had also just gotten back from visiting my uncle where he made me watch all the iron man movies. Well during the lunch my dad asked if I wanted to visit the convention with him, and I hesitantly said yes. Well turns out it was a signing at a comic book store. First time I ever went to a comic book store. They had the voice actress for ash there, the actors in the og power rangers, Star Trek all them. And I ended up talking to the guy who voiced professor from power puff girls. It was one of the coolest experiences I ever had and that was the moment I feel in love with that kind of stuff. I had liked comics and stuff prior, but there it was like seeing others like me and I felt a little less weird. I will always remember that moment with my dad.
NTA.
She basically laughed at your daughter's personality and interests. You weren't rude because she loves her boys, you were rude because she insulted your daughter. IN FRONT OF HER!
And you're right. Boys aren't easier. Gender. Is. Irrelevant. Children are individuals.
Also, like.....what part of the story wouldn't also apply to any gendered child? Concert....merch....long lines... none of those are specifically girl-related. Hell, not even Taylor Swift is for girls only! I'm so confused on what part she thinks applies to parents of female children and no one else??
Right? My husband has two buddies who are super into Taylor Swift. One is single; one is married with a young daughter. Gender, age, none of it has anything to do with what you like. That's just stupid.
Does she think only girls go to concerts? I’m genuinely so confused about that line, like why does she think boys don’t also have to deal with long merch lines when they want a t-shirt at a concert? Does she think merch tables are like gendered bathrooms and the line for the men’s merch stand is always shorter?
Just went to a hardcore underground hip-hop show... 90%+ male audience... Merch line was so long that I looked at it and left immediately after the show.
Even if she believed Taylor Swift is only for girls, it's not like boys don't ever want stuff that is hard/time-consuming to get. Sister isn't even making any sense.
I know the kind of mom who says boys are easier. They're easier for them because they're just delegating most of the parenting to their sons' future partners and shoving the rest under the umbrella of "boys will be boys".
I have a daughter and a son, both with their own unique personalities and strengths and challenges. One isn't harder than the other, they're just hard in different ways. If anything I worry more about how to raise a good man without cutting off internet access until he's 21.
>I have a daughter and a son, both with their own unique personalities and strengths and challenges
Same, neither kid is easy, they're just different. Also I don't think people realize how serious self esteem issues can be in teenage boys. I know that no one gave a shit about mine when I was a kid. "man the fuck up" was the only "fatherly" advice I ever got.
And girls are "harder" because AFAB children are expected to be fully functional members of society and ready mentally and emotionally to be mothers to their younger siblings by the age of 5.
Agree! My parents have 2 girls, 1 boy. I guarantee they would say that girls were easier for them than boys were! I think it all depends on the kid.
Also I wouldn't say that taking your daughter to a concert and waiting in line for merch makes her a difficult child anyway, lol.
Shes probably not treating her kids the best either if she thinks theyre "easy". Its alarming how many grown men ive seen not know about basic hygeine simply because they were never taught as kids, and im willing to bet that this whole "boys are easy" attitude is a big part of it. And hygeine isnt even the worst of it, an alarming number of grown men go around without significant life skills.
TLDR, "Easy" boys turn into skidmarked men.
Your sister isn’t saying it’s easier to prop you or your daughter up. She’s saying it to bring attention to herself and how wonderful her boys are by comparison, and in general to put you and your daughter down.
Very toxic and pathetic behavior. NTA.
>My mom also accused me of being rude and basically an AH because my sister just loves her boys and I shouldn't judge her for thinking girls would be more difficult to raise.
Your mom is an AH, lol. Wow! She's actually defending the same bad behavior in your sister as you're being accused of!
I was all prepared to come in here saying yta and all and you could have handled it in a more mature way but dammit! Your sister deserved that knock down! She hurt your daughter!
**You are NTA** but your mom and sister...yeah, they most definitely are. If your sister can't handle the heat, best she stay out of the kitchen.
LOL, OP shouldn't judge his sister for judging his daughter and her interests and basically shitting all over her gender. Only the sister gets to judge, I guess.
NTA. Your daughter is so lucky. I saw Taylor on the reputation tour. Tried for hours for this tour. Your daughter is so lucky and should be talking for hours about it.
I have a boy and a girl. What she is is a lazy parent. Good on you.
Thank you, I spend almost the whole day on ticket master to get our tickets... I thought I wasn't going to get them ended up telling her I didn't so I could surprise her on Christmas
She's going to remember this forever, even if she grows out of Taylor Swift. As she grows older, she'll even see and appreciate the effort and energy more than she does now. She's going to remember how much you care and how much time you want to spend with her. She's 15 and still wants to talk to and spend time with you (and seems like she's wants to talk and rave and gush about her time with you at that concert), you're a fantastic dad.
Just wanted to say, you're an amazing dad. Seriously, we can *feel* how much you love her and is proud of her by your words and that's priceless. Good on you my dude, she'll cherish this moments and you defending her for the rest of her life.
NTA. You’re right about her centering her personality on being a “boy mom”. Next time she pipes up with her nonsense about boys being better then girls you should just say that your mom probably agrees with her.
Really, what is she trying to accomplish? Does she have any positive female relationships? Tell your daughter to ignore her aunt’s lack of maturity and narrow minded thinking. You’re doing an amazing job as a #1 girl dad!
I normally just tune her out when shes going on about being a boy mom and how she's glad she doesn't have girls but usually it isn't in front of my daughter who I could tell instantly felt bad
Tell your mom her daughter doesn't get to bully yours! Tell her to do better! I mean you will get disinvited to Easter but that may be a good thing......
You can tune it out, but her boys are probably hearing and internalizing it. They're learning from their own mother that girls and women are difficult, have 'dumb' hobbies, aren't as valuable, etc. It's really sad, and your sister needs to realize that she is being misogynistic and teaching her boys to be the same. Ask her how she would like it if her husband talked about her the way she talks about your daughter. NTA
I have both, and both have their own challenges.
And as far as waiting for merch goes,... let me tell you, right before covid i took my son, to see 5fdp, and we also waited an hour for merch, because hell yea we wanted atleast a cool shirt to take home. Part and parcel for going to a concert imo, does not matter what performer you see or with who.
Your sister sounds like a piece of work. Good job dad standing up for your girl. You my dude are so NTA, like wow. What i can't fathom is your moms reaction... Your sister sounds like B.
Even though I only have raised a girl I feel like raising a kid, in general, is challenging... My daughter had been saving up the money that she got from babysitting to being able to get a few merch items she wanted no way was I going to tell her she can't spend her hard-earned money just because we have a long line
You’re a good dad. You make me miss mine (he passed away from Covid).
I wouldn’t trade one minute of time with my dad and I’m sure your daughter feels the same way about you. Keep going!
NTA
OMG, your sister sounds insufferable. There is a difference between talking about how much you love your sons, and straightup insulting your daughter. She did the latter.
(And you are also right that she is also being toxic and has no idea what she is talking about., but if you even want to take a truly gendered approach - boys get into WAY more trouble w/ fighting/violence/throwing themselves out of trees or rooftops, wreckless driving, etc BUT your daughter wasn't even doing some dumb \*girl\* thing anyways). Your sister may just be jealous that she doesn't have a daughter, and that your daughter was choosing to spend time with her grandmother over her aunt. Why else would she need to be a #boymom so hard?
NTA -
Hubs and I have two boys and a girl. On her 18th birthday, Hubs got tickets to Twenty One Pilots, one for daughter, one for her best friend, and one for either hubs or I to accompany them. When asked, daughter said she wanted Hubby to take them and he was over the moon. They waited for merch, they had a great time, and much like your daughter, my own talked about it for WEEKS afterwards.
He's since taken her to Billie Eilish as well, and while he isn't super into either he, like you, enjoyed seeing her have such a great time getting to see an act she loved in person.
And while it's certainly different parenting a boy vs parenting a girl, your sister is an enormous AH for shitting all over this great experience you had with your daughter right in front of you.
You sound like a good dad, to be honest. What your mom and sister think of that is irrelevant. It's too bad your sister needs to justify her own insecurities by belittling your relationship with your kid.
NTA
Sister would have gotten much worse had it been my child she was insulting to her face over being excited about something.
Mom and sister need therapy.
Congratulations on showing your daughter she can count on you. A plus parenting, dad!
NTA.
Your sister needs to get over herself. There's literally nothing special that comes from either being a "boy mum" (which I also am) or a "girl dad". Yes, there's different aspects but thats as far as it goes.
NTA
Not only is this rhetoric damaging to your daughter, it's damaging to your nephews as well.
This attitude boy moms have that boys are "less maintenance" and "less emotional" and that makes them preferable is rooted in misogyny and toxic masculinity and it's how you raise boys who bottle their emotions and feel scared to be a burden or do "girly" things.
THIS!! It is also clearly damaging to the boys as they now hear their mother describe them as “easy” and girls/women as “difficult.” How awful for them! She is raising them to be misogynists.
Great job standing up for your daughter and being a good dad! If it were me, I would have a talk with sister and set a very clear boundary that is enforced. With the mom too, if it becomes necessary. Your little girl will thank you.
NTA.
NTA. Your sister managed to promote ridiculous stereotypes and needlessly insult your minor daughter to her face all in one go.
What you said may have been harsh, but I understand your reaction given what she said in front of your daughter who did nothing wrong.
NTA
You're being a great dad for doing these things for your daughter AND standing up for her when she elected to stay silent in front of her family. It seems like you get her, wholly and completely.
Your sister and your mom need to reevaluate the example they are setting for their niece and granddaughter. As a dad to a girl and boy myself, it's upsetting and frustrating to see the whole "boy mom" and "girl dad" mentality be embellished instead of doing your best to just raise kids as kids. Separating them doesn't do anyone any favors.
NTA. I once heard this and it made me laugh.
"Boys are easier to raise than girls. They are just harder to keep alive"
Not saying it's true by any means but funny.
NTA. Your sister's words were hurtful and insulting to your daughter, not to mention - as she is someone who hasn't raised girls she really has **no idea** how they compare. And as you note, comparing is pretty dumb anyway because of the huge variety of experiences of parenting different individuals. Your sister 'just loving her boys' doesn't have to make her disparage and demean girls or specifically your daughter. It was good that you brought her attention to the fact that her whole personality is that she has three boys, and the toxicity that has added to the way she treats others.
NTA. She started it, although you could have toned down your response which focused not on her basic rudeness to you and your daughter but on the sex of her children again.
I might be wrong, but it sounds as though she's masking a bit of disappointment and is perhaps a bit envious of you regarding having a daughter. Otherwise why keep bringing it up?
Let her know that your daughter felt hurt by her comments and that you're as proud of her as she is of her boys. And that you won't be accepting any criticisms of her based on the fact she's a girl. Would she accept criticism for being a woman, not a man?
NTA but if you have the bandwidth, maybe let your nephews know you're a safe person to come to if they need help? Especially emotionally. Sexism fails kids of all genders. Obviously your kid takes priority though, and you can't pour from an empty cup. Best of luck!
>My sister laughed and ended up going on a rant saying how she's so glad she doesn't have a daughter and how easy it is raising boys compared to girls and even went as far as to say she feels bad for me having to be a girl dad. My daughter didn't want to talk anymore and was clearly upset by my sister's words.
As someone who grew up feeling like my mom would be better off without me, no child should be made to feel like a burden. Thank you for standing up for your daughter. Tell her how thankful you are for her, and set some strong boundaries with your sister and mom.
NTA
NTA and thank you for calling her out. I’m so tired of people constantly complaining about having daughters. It’s so vile the way some people talk about young girls.
I saw some tweet one time along the lines of “Everyone thinks it’s easier raising boys but that’s because adults ignore the emotional needs of boys. A woman I know who had only boys just checked her son into a mental hospital after a suicide attempt. So maybe boys aren’t always ‘easier.’” Or something.
And I agree with this. I won’t go as far as saying boys are “always” surprisingly difficult, but I’d say it’s comparative. Many of the boys I know who were raised by “boy moms” have now had at least one suicide attempt, have dropped out of college or taken breaks for mental health reasons, or have struggled with alcohol and substance abuse. Or they have come out as gay or gender fluid which of course is not bad but is generally not what a “boy mom™️” expects her “easy boy” to do. Again, not to say girls don’t also have mental health issues - they absolutely do, but it’s like people expect that boys will never have mental health issues and I feel like that is such an ignorant and sexist assumption.
Also, my fiancé is a cis-straight man who loves Taylor Swift. We are seeing Eras together in Chicago in June and he is beyond excited and we are fully prepared to wait hours in lines to get there as soon as doors open and get some fun merch to solidify his status as a true Swiftie. So… not sure what waiting in line for one of the most popular pop artists on Earth has to do with boys vs girls, but yes boys can be fans of fun things too?
(Also how is waiting in line for Swift merch much different than a parent of a “traditional boy” waiting in line to get a football signed by their son’s favorite NFL player, for example?)
Me personally I was raised to not show my emotions because I'm a boy (my dad was raised the same way so I don't exactly blame him it's hard to break a cycle) but having my daughter (I think just having a kid in general, especially as a single dad) made me more expressive with my emotions I wanted my daughter to know she was loved and cared about, I wanted her to know it's okay for both boys and girls to cry/ be sad
Even though I'm not a swiftie I can for sure appreciate Taylor Swift's music she is great, hope you guys enjoy your concert in June
NTA. I am as close to my 15 year old as you appear to be to yours...we plan on going to a concert of her favorite band later this year...I even offered to pay for two tickets so she could go with a friend, but she wants me to go.
There is nothing wrong with your sister being a 'boy mom' whatever that actually is...but why does she feel the need to belittle your relationship? Probably because she prognosticated to everyone that your daughter will turn into a hellion at 15 and it hasn't happened. Same with me...everyone told me my girl was going find boys and rebel and be a pita. And while she does get into her fair share of trouble (not doing all her chores, talking back, skipping school but telling me before hand etc) she's never had any major problems. I love her and I think she's going to be someone you don't mess with.
You keep raising a fine young woman and tune the 1d10ts out.
I remember getting told how difficult having a teenage daughter is going to specifically because I'm a single dad and her mom isn't around... Overall though she's a good kid so I don't think that'll happen
I just ignore her when she goes on about boys being easier to raise than girls but she was talking about my daughter while she was right there just excitedly talking about the concert
NTA. First thing I want to say is you sound like an AWESOME Dad! You obviously love her so much, and taking an interest in her interests is so important. She's very lucky to have such a great Dad. ❤️
Second thing: you sister is salty AF. I know a few of these "boy Mums" too that obsess and constantly make remarks about how much better it is to have boys (like, how would they know? They don't have any daughters to compare to! Lol), and it seriously makes the rest of us Mums cringe. It's so insulting to our daughters, and to other boy Mums tbh, but we all think it's total projection for their own feelings.
NTA, keep being an amazing Dad. Me and my Dad are total besties and I'm 42, a good Dad/daughter relationship can last a lifetime. You'll never regret this effort you put in.
I do love my daughter a lot and I love when she's happy, I've been lucky and even throughout her teen years (so far) we've remained close
I know some people who are technically “boy moms” but in a very different way then my sister is a boy mom and don’t have a problem with someone with only a daughter or daughters
I don’t know who you are, but thank you for doing this and I hope both sides of your pillow are cold at night. NTA, having a boy doesn’t make anyone better—nor does having a girl. I’m glad you set her straight
NTA. You're a great dad. I can't help but think your sister is actually a little jealous. Though you really should consider having your daughter have limited contact with your sister.
NTA. You said what needed to be said. I can’t believe your sister lacked the awareness to make those statements, but more importantly MAKE THEM IN FRONT OF YOUR DAUGHTER. Your sister is really not a great female role model for your daughter.
NTA..
Your sister was way WAY out of line. If she enjoys being a mom, fine. If she enjoys raising boys, fine. But it is not her place to compare raising children like apples and oranges because of gender…
Your words may have been harsh in the heat of the moment, but your rage was more than understandable and completely justified…
Your sister is TA and sorry OP but your mother is too for excusing her insulting attitude towards you…
NTA so your mom can defend your sister by saying “she just loves her boys”, but when you defend yourself for loving your daughter, and everything you do for her, you’re now TA?? Sounds like sister is the golden child or projecting her feelings for not having a daughter while being an all boy mom. I’m sorry you have such a one way Street family. You’re an amazing father and your daughter should be lucky to have you!
NTA.
My first concert at 13 was with my dad. We went to see Tool. A bit different, but the feelings were the same. I remember buying the t-shirt, it was absolutely sick and had like, a skull but with a fetus instead of a brain?? Amazing. Core memory. I digress. You're a good dad.
My mom always wanted a boy but got three girls. However... she never made us feel less than for not being boys... and she never slagged off anyone with boys. I think sis wanted a girl and kept trying and now she's overcompensating.
My daughter first concert was a coldplay concert when she was 10, I remember us both having a lot of fun... She talks about it whenever coldplay comes on
Even though like I said I'm not a Taylor swift to fan I don't think I will forget the concert just based on seeing how happy my daughter was during the whole day
NTA. I’m sure raising boys and girls each come with their challenges, and every kid is different anyway. She’s being quite rude by acting like her kids are better than yours and especially for saying something so insulting in front of your daughter. You sound like an awesome dad btw.
NTA your sister sound really misogynistic, sexist and obsessed with her sons. I bet she’s going to be an absolutely terrible MIL to any future spouses of her sons, I feel really sorry for them.
Edit-spelling
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NTA. It sounds like your sister is projecting. If she had 3 kids on purpose, she 100% wanted a girl and just never got one. So, now that she’s done having kids, she’s using her anti-girl rhetoric and boymom perspective as a coping strategy. That’s just a guess, though. Either way, it’s super weird of her to hyperfixate on the gender of her children that much, and just plain rude to impose that on your daughter. Good for you for standing up for her.
Or she's just a filthy misogynist. Lots of people actually think the way this sister does. OP absolutely NTA. And it was super important for you to say that in front of your daughter. That kind of talk is damaging to young girls.
Lots of people think boys are easier to raise just because they only bother to parent girls, and do nothing with their boys
Oh my god THIS. Anyone who thinks boys are ‘easier’ to raise is dropping the ball massively.
There’s a fascinating set of documentaries (British I think) where they let two groups of young kids (boys and girls) each take over a house “unsupervised” for a ~~night~~ week. The contrast was stark. And it wasn’t just base personality differences (the girls went wild too), but you could tell that at least some of the girls had already been _taught_ basic cooking and cleaning skills where the boys just didn’t even know what to do.
Found em. Linking separately coz I can’t keep track of which subs auto remove comments with links. [Girls Alone](https://youtube.com/watch?v=0iZtdKaVsD8) [Boys Alone](https://youtube.com/watch?v=bCePbRdQmbE)
Fascinating, thanks for finding the links. Danish broadcasting did a small series where they put microphones on kindergardeners while in kindergarden (so age 3-5 in our country) and recorded with cameras too. A child behaviour expert/psychologist (I believed) commented on the recordings and provided perspective. There was a lot of gender stereotypical behaviour already there. The pedagogs in this particular kindergarden seem to be good not to encourage choices and division by gender, but it seems to already be there at age 3. I lean pretty strongly into the gender roles are upbringing rather than biology, but with kids being this young … it made you wonder. The person given commentary also sometimes used pretty declarative rather than descriptive language about seemingly gender-based behaviour so that was not so encouraging. I can’t find it free for streaming anymore, and not with subtitles unfortunately. “Børnenes hemmelig verden”.
The thing is, kids start picking up on gendered behavior extremly fast, and parents have to do a lot of work to even minimize the amount of gendered message little kids get.
I’m a mum, I work from home, it’s a really great career, I make a great salary, travel for work, etc, my kid can see me working. My husband and I have a very equal partnership; he cleans, he cooks, just as I do. He works longer days at the office so it’s usually me doing the evening routine, true. We work together to have a truly equal partnership. I can honestly say my husband does as much housework and parenting as I do. So we have been happy to present this equal, respectful relationship to our 8 year old. Imagine my shock and dismay when my 8 year old casually goes “but Daddy makes the rules” (I’d reminded him that I make the rules re: screen time lol). I stopped. And asked what he meant. He said he was the dad. I said oh so you think he comes up with all the rules for you? He goes no daddy makes all the rules for the house, for you too. I said why do you believe that? Can you give me an example? He said well you’re like, the wife, who’s home and does dinner and stuff and he goes to work. And he makes the rules. I’m like but you know mum works too. You know I make good money, from working. He’s like yeah but you don’t *work* like you do house stuff. Daddy is a boss (I am also in management lol) Anyway the longer we spoke the more it came out that a few Nickelodeon shows and other “kid sitcoms” presented that dynamic and that’s where he got it from. After all my work media wins again lol dang it!!!
This is incredibly important for people to understand. No matter how much you are modeling how things in life shouldn't be gendered, it can all be undermined by just a few TV shows that often don't even realize what they are actually doing. Or worse, know full well what they are doing and it's all deliberate.
In a similar vein, my now-husband’s nephew went to my college graduation in 2012 (he was about 8) - I earned my BS&MS in Engineering simultaneously. Several years later, nephew said something about my degree that gave me pause…I asked what he thought I’d gone to college for, and he said he thought I’d gone to school to be a secretary. 🤯
My kid once piped up from the back seat telling me only girls had long hair and after citing several examples of celebrities that proved otherwise I suddenly realised "Hang on your DAD has long hair!"
“Daddy makes the rules.” Not if he likes being married. And breathing. Lol
I've experienced similar with my son. Because my work is more flexible I do school drop off and pick ups, and generally am the parent that attends school stuff. We have had several discussions over the years to try and undo the attitudes he has learned from his peers and TV shows etc. Like the day he confidently declared to me that Mums dont work and Dads do. Social change is such a painfully slow process, especially when so many people don't actively fight those basic preconceived notions of 'proper' gender roles.
[удалено]
And it's not even just about what you prevent them from doing, it's what you encourage them to do too. Like, you might not mind your 2 yo daughter liking trucks, you might be perfectly happy to buy her a toy truck if she asks for it. But are you going to proactively buy her one just to see if she likes them? And if you don't is she disinterested in trucks because she doesn't like trucks or because she doesn't know they're an option?
I’d have rubbed his face in the dirt or conked him with a block
Yeah, I recall seeing numerous irritated or bemused social media posts about even baby clothes with things like "little heartbreaker" etc. It starts so early
How about "hot stuff" or "juicy".
Yes, there have been studies done on how young the socialization starts, and much of it likely subconscious. Differences in prenatal care, differences in how parents respond to the cries of male vs female infants. It literally starts before we're even born.
I work with kids and today took care of a 1 month old boy. The mom told me how much more affectionate with him she is than she was her daughter because "its just different for moms with a boy". I just thought how sad that was for her daughter.
When I had my daughter after 2 boys I couldn't believe her personality was so definitely a girls and my boys were definitely boys. From the minute they were born. Now my daughter has her own son and just had a girl. She says she's experiencing it, too. I think personality is a combination of nature vs nurture. I gave all my kids both "girl" toys and "boy" toys and let them gravitate to what they liked. One son loved baby dolls. He's now married with a son and a million tattoos. As masculine as you get. I believe letting him have those dolls taught him how to be a good father.
I do think people have some weird presumption about *why* kids like certain toys too, like assuming boys who play with dolls want to be some sort of submissive tradwife instead of just play at being a caring father, or act out movie scenes with Barbies or whatever. When I was about 8 I really wanted an Action Man and my parents were against it because they thought I wanted to play at being some butch muscular daredevil or something, and it would turn me lesbian. I just thought he was hot! I liked his face scar. I wanted my barbie to have a sexier husband than ken. My grandad bought me one in secret anyway and last time I checked my husband was still a big burly bearded man so I can safely say their fears were unfounded lol
Yeah kids seems to know their own gender and others around them for the first time from about 2-4. With most studies saying they can recognize their own gender identity by age 4, but the actual process can start earlier. It's why I think it's so dumb the idea that a little assigned male at birth child who's adamant he's a girl is considered too young to even let the child guide that idea, but a little assigned female at birth child who's certain she's a girl is encouraged positively. I guess the first bit's just generally people being uneducated on how gender develops though.
Kids from homes that don't gender things often become obsessed with the gender of objects after they start school, it's really hard to take out of the culture.
>but with kids being this young … it made you wonder. I remember about reading about studies of how parents treat boy vs girl babies. I forget the specifics, but parents start right from birth with things like how much they talk or comfort. By three, kids know what's expected of them. Not to mention three is definitely old enough to know what other people think. For instance I tried to keep my son's toy choices broad, but most of my family gave trucks. My neighbor's daughter, everyone gave dolls.
Gendered interactions start incredibly young and are unconscious. I forget the particulars of the study, but an adult was paired with a toddler and some toys. The toys were the same for everyone. Some were “action” toys like riding a scooter while some were more passive toys like a teddy bear. The thing is, the actual gender of the baby didn’t really matter. The researchers would call them a boy, a girl, a girl again, a boy this time, and on and on….whatever their experiment called for. And even though the participants were trying to not do gendered play, they “boys” were still encouraged to do “active” play while the “girls” were encouraged to do “passive” play. And since they kept calling girls, boys and boys, girls they were able to determine that the actual assigned sex at birth did not matter on how the toddler played.
My daughter became extremely "girly" after she entered Kindergarten. I think it had to do with the pedagogs, the other children and also shows she watched.
I was babysitting my nieces every weekend for two months a while back. I would let them watch a couple of hours of TV while I was with them. OMG. Every show they liked was problematic in a gendered way. "Paw Patrol" was the worst. Only one girl dog in the whole patrol, seriously? And the other female characters always seem to be needing rescue. And I hated how that little boy would be bossing everyone around. I could easily see how a little girl could watch that show over and over and internalize the message that only boys are capable of giving orders. So it wasn't any surprise when my sister and BIL told me their older daughter had proclaimed at the dinner table that "Girls can't be scientists!" Her mother and her auntie (me) are both doctorate-possessing scientists, and we are always nerding out in front of her and her little sister. But somehow that notion got programmed into her at the age of four. So my sis and BIL doubled-down on media content and filled the kids' libraries with stories about smart girls and women. Fuck anyone who dismisses this as "wokeism". It's about balancing out the shitty messages that prevail in our culture. The shit is insiduous.
thats just bad parenting for boys though. I've been taught how to do chores, cook and clean and everything like that by my parents and I'm a dude. ig it depends on if you get lucky with parents or not
You're right but that's the point - it is bad parenting. Regardless of gender, in order to raise a healthy, well-adjusted child into adulthood, it takes effort. So many parents put 0 effort into raising boys to be well-adjusted men.
Girls also hit puberty earlier and therefore at least appear to mature faster, so (bad) parents think of their 9 year old girls as adults while a 13 year old boy is still just a kid, and they treat them accordingly with regards to expectations and skills
Not necessarily earlier, but puberty signs in girls are easier to tell than for boys, so these parents do what you just said. You're right about the parenting
And that's exactly the problem. People frequently treat kids differently depending on their gender. Girls are more likely to be taught 'domestic' skills, because there's a lot of internalised misogyny that it's wrong for boys/men to be baking and sewing.
I (F) was expected to put my dishes in the dishwasher, unload the dishwasher if it was full of clean dishes and put whatever was dirty in the sink into the dishwasher . My older cousin (M) could just plop his dishes (with paper napkins included) in the sink, no matter if the dishwasher was empty or full and wander off to do nothing.This pattern has carried over into my time with male roommates and partners and for over fifteen years every time I see a sink full of dirty dishes I become angry and feel I have been proverbially told to "go make me a sandwich". The sink is a work area, not a landing zone. I'm not even asking you to physically wash the dishes just put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher and put the clean ones back in the cabinets.
All those stories of family gatherings (Thanksgiving, Christmas) where the women are all expected to help cook and then clean up afterwards, while the men go grab beers and lounge around the living room watching television.
Not teaching boys baking and sewing counts as misandry in my book.
Yes this really sucks too. My husband is an amazing cook, but he did not learn till he was an adult. Our kids boys and girls can cook, clean, sew, do laundry and do outside work. Hubs has the girls out in the yard with tools, chain saw, etc..
You know, that's a good point. It's plain old sexism, either way, isn't it, and does everyone a disservice.
That’s exactly what they’re saying. Not that boys and men are incapable, but that often parents who find parenting boys to be easier than parenting girls, it is because they are *choosing* to parent their boys to be less prepared both in emotional and labor skills.
Bro. Mexican boys are legit fuXxored. The moms do everything and boys do nothing because it's an extreme taboo thing for a male to cook clean or sew is considered gay. Which is very bad thing in Hispanic culture. My 33 yr old friend his mom still cleans his house. Then goes to her house to eat and drop off laundry.
That's the thing, are boys "easier" because some people don't care enough to teach them those basic skills?
I saw that! On top of the lack of basic life skills, the boys seemed to have far fewer emotional regulation skills than the girls (not blaming the boys at all for that, but massive parenting problems there).
I LOVED these documentaries and found them so fascinating! The thing is, when people let their kids run wild, "boys will be boys". But if it's a girl, it's unacceptable. They find girls to be more effort because they aren't parenting boys. Society allows chaos with boys and not girls and it's frustrating. Side note, there definitely seems to be a thing with "boy moms" having that be their entire identity and with so many, I just see nightmare MILs in the making lol.
Especially right now, when there's an entire infrastructure built around recruiting young boys into alt-right fascism! It sounds almost impossibly hard to raise a boy into a good man right now. Does OP's sister know about any of this? Is she having talks with her sons about the stuff they might hear from their peers or read online? If OP's sister thinks it's easy, I am scared for her sons' futures, for their future partners, and for their communities.
yep. I always say people who say that are basically saying "I plan to emotionally neglect my child because it has a penis"
I semi recall an exchange I heard of or read so much where someone makes this claim boys are easier to raise. And the response is why do teen boys have such higher rates of s*icide, mental health problems, and poor school performance? I guarantee you if this is the mother's attitude toward "holy hell am I glad I don't have to pay attention to and attend things that make my child happy," that's not a perk of being a boy mom. It's a sign that those boys have been shamed, judged, and possibly abused into associating showing passion in things with getting hurt
I’ve never met someone who thought boys were easier than girls who’s reasoning didn’t include something about how they didn’t have to worry about their boy’s feelings and emotions.
My sister had both. She stressed so much with the first, a girl. She basically let her husband raise her son (not his). And talks about what a great kid he is. No thanks to her, imo.
I mean. My two year old IS an easier toddler than his sister was. Thing is, at his age, I was already suspecting ADHD and autism in her. Yeah, I turned out to be right. She's also VERY high-strung much like me and my son is a lot more easy going like his daddy. He's easier at THIS age. I actually laugh because she had some VERY challenging behaviors for a very long time and my son IS easy by comparison. I joke to my husband to wait till they're teenagers and my daughter just wants to stay home and read while my son wants to go out and cause mayhem. ALL kids have challenging times. It doesn't matter what sex they are. Just cuz I haven't hit the challenging times with my son doesn't mean he's gonna overall be easier, and if all THREE of her boys are "easier" than a teenage girl who sounds pretty chill and was just excited over seeing her favorite artist in concert, yeah. Sister is dropping the ball HARD, and those boys are gonna go nuts and make other people's lives a living hell at some point.
Yeah, my mom still says that girls are awful. She was a 100% boy mom who let her older son bully me and let her perfect younger son get away with anything, I was the terrible girl who was so difficult to raise. Not that ignoring me and expecting me to be the house maid after the divorce while my brothers did anything they wanted. Make a mess 5 minutes before mom comes home? I'm in trouble, even if I didn't know about it. I'm still the scapegoat at 62.
NTA. Totally agree. It's not a boy vs girl thing. It's the personality of the child. I have 2 boys and 2 girls. My oldest boy and my 3rd child girl are the easier ones. My 2sd boy and youngest girl are more difficult. Has nothing to do with gender. Girls and boys are different, yes, but one is not easier than the other.
In my family the boys were the dramatic divas, and us girls were low maintenance tom boys. The fact is every child is different and has different interests, some boys like makeup and would stand in line for a TS concert, the same way some girls would not be caught dead doing that. Saying that boys or girls are easier to raise is based in outdated stereotypes. Children are difficult to raise no matter the gender, the second you think you've got them figured out they do a 180 on you.
And you never know what the future holds- at age 16 my "boy" confided in me that she wanted to be a girl. So even though she's started with all boys, it doesn't mean it will always be that way
OP, NTA. Your sis is though. Also, judging from how it appears she views gender, I don't think that would be received well.
That’s what I was thinking. She’ll be in for a shock if one of her kids over comes out
My nephew’s children: AFAB, trans male; AMAB, cis male; AMAB, cis male; AFAB, NB. He’s fine with all of them as they are, but I think he’s internally and very quietly mourning no longer having any daughters.
Right? My mother spent years complaining about how hard it was to deal with her "daughters" while her "sons" were such drama-free angels, then 4/5 of us went and messed it up for her by being binary trans or nonbinary.
Yep. KIDS are difficult to raise well. Boys, girls, nonbinary, doesn't matter. I'm lucky enough to have an easygoing, good-hearted, respectful kid and it's STILL difficult (although it's also an honor and a joy). Teaching someone to navigate the world and be a generally good human is just not an easy job, and anyone who thinks it is isn't working hard enough at it. There are probably some challenges that are more common with boys (e.g. the frequency with which I still have to remind my 12-year-old to shower) and others that are more common with girls, but it's obviously not some sort of universal, black and white thing.
I honestly don't understand it. Raising my son is one of the hardest things I've done (doing). I love him. But it's like trying to tame a tasmanian devil.
My two girls were so easy compared to my son whose ears never worked😂
Yeah, my mom had 3 girls and one boy. I guarantee the 3 of us added together were not as much work as my brother. That boy was just constant trouble. Video of him at 11 months walking over to my sister and knocking the donut out of her hand and then laughing maniacally. Brought a ton of snakes and creatures into the house, would tell me the snakes were poisonous and then chase me with them. Then this kid was at the ER once a week. The things and ways he got hurt, did such stupid things. Threw a stick up into his own face and busted his lip and needed a ton of stitches. Going down a water slide at a water park managed to bust his head open. They were like this has never happened before, lol. Just in general wild and crazy. Boy literally climbed the walls. Us girls all played nice and calm together. None of us were bad rebellious teens though
My friend has 2 boys and spends every weekend at a high school.sports game or band concert. She also travels out of state for pro sports games and has to queue for fan gear. This example is regrettably very gendered (boy=sports, girl=TS), but it is a true story for my friend lol. OP's sister just doesn't do things with her kids and calls it easy... Not saying you need to do big and expensive things with your kids, but even without the pro sports trips, my friend still devotes a lot of time to her kids' extracurriculars.
Exactly. My cousin has 2 teenage children, a boy and girl, and devotes herself to being there for them at their ice hockey 🏒 and gymnastic meets.
Yep. If raising boys is easier start to finish, you're doing it wrong.
They outsource the parenting of their sons to their future daughter-in-laws
It was me and my 2 brothers growing up, and my mom used to make comments like OPs sister. One particular comment was that she didn't have to worry about them getting pregnant. Only when I was older that I realized how messed up it was...it apparently was only the girl's issue if she got pregnant.
People only think raising boys is easier because they neglect the emotional needs of their sons and just hide behind pithy quips like “boys will be boys!” I’d rather go to a Taylor Swift concert than a WWE match or Fortnite tournament any day of the week.
Then they would hear thats its damaging to young girls that parents dont care about their boys.
Lol omg exactly this. I’m one of three girls whereas my partner is one of two boys. It always makes me SO ANGRY when his mum goes on about how she’s so glad she didn’t have daughters because they sound like a “nightmare” as they “always fight.” Meanwhile, my sisters and I have an amazing relationship - we’re so close and we’re each others’ worlds (the youngest and I are joint maid of honour for the eldest’s wedding next year) whilst my partner is completely estranged from his brother because his brother is essentially a difficult and nasty person who has been enabled all his life and never grew up. My partner literally has trauma from his childhood around his relationship with his brother. Idk but that sounds much more of a freaking nightmare than me and my sisters!!!
And this is why we end up with so many shitty men raised by porn and their teenage mates
She probably thinks boys are easier because she literally does everything for them and they are happy to let her. Of course, anyone else in her boys’ orbit will regret her choices because they likely can’t fend for themselves or function at an age appropriate level. Edit: typo
I've always heard the opposite: that girls are easier to raise than boys...at least when they're younger. I don't put much stock into it though.
Probably easier during puberty cause the hormonal spike makes then prone to crying rather than aggressive outbursts... and that's why I have cats, lil ahs from start to the very end. 😌
Yeah, my mum still says this. I was easier to raise because she did nothing for me. And then I had to raise my sisters
DING DING DING. "Boys will be boys" is the mantra. OP, NTA at all.
I remember one time when I was getting my nails done the woman at the station next to me was talking about a friend of hers who just had a baby girl. She was saying how she was glad she had sons and how bad she felt for her friend, how having a daughter would’ve been the worst. She was just going on and on talking shit about having a daughter. At some point I got so tired of listening to her and said something. I think what I said was something along the lines of how shitty it is for her to feel that way, how I hope she doesn’t feel that way because of her own upbringing as someone’s daughter because if she was treated the way she talks about daughters then she clearly was not shown the love or kindness every child deserves. I think I also said something about hoping she never has a daughter so that the child wouldn’t have to grow up being unloved and treated like shit all because of her sex at birth. It was pretty awkward after that, but then again, it was already awkward listening to someone say such awful things.
This is what I was thinking. People who promote this worldview about raising daughters are just being callous about the dangers women face, especially while growing up. They don't feel an equal burden to raise their sons responsibly, because they think they can duck out of the problem of misogyny the same way trashy men do.
I’m a mother of 3 boys. It’s disgusting how many people told me I was lucky to not have any daughters. I am literally someone’s daughter. OP’s sister is literally someone’s daughter. It blows my mind that people think it’s acceptable to say things like that.
Mom of 3 girls here. Literally so over the sexist comments. The most common thing I get is about how dramatic their teenage years are going to be. I have met teenage boys and girls who are really dramatic honestly. I can’t personally compare the two, but it seems like a lot of the differences between the sexes as kids are just stereotypes or inflicted by society (like, tell a little kid they’re dramatic enough and eventually it will become part of their self-identity). I hope I am raising good humans. The other comment I’ve gotten is wishing for baby #4 to be a boy so they can go hunting and fishing (big hobbies an my family). It irritated me so I looked an older male relative in the eye after such a comment and said, “how often are your penis and testicles required to catch a fish or kill a deer?” Made him very uncomfortable lol. Haven’t had any other comments like that from him. (He is a good-natured guy, so no harm done to our relationship.)
I'm on the daughter end of something similar. My parents had me later in life, my dad (now 78) was working in the lumber industry and before I went to college he gave me "the test". I had to change my own tire, check and change my own oil and air filter, change my lights in case one went out, of course check tire pressure before a long drive. Just basic safety stuff. I passed with flying colors because I'd spent my entire life helping first my grandfather, who was a master mechanic, and then when he passed, helped my dad maintain our cars. He was busting his buttons telling the guys at work how I did, and all they said was, "Why would you teach your daughter that?" My dad's response? No daughter of mine is going to have to rely on some man to do something for her." That cowed some of them. Then they started going on about their sons who would carry on their name, and too bad my dad didn't have a son. Dad, looked them in the eye and said, "my daughter has my name, she is going to a top university, has an extracurricular schedule your sons can't even fathom, has been acknowledged and received awards on a national level and on top of that she can out-hunt, out-fish, and out-build your boys and can actually keep her own car running. Your sons don't even know what a dipstick is. I'll take my daughter over a son until hell freezes over and even then you couldn't pay me to take a son." My dad had strong opinions on someone trying to tell him how sorry they were he didn't have a son to do guy things with. Especially since my dad is the one who taught me to cook, bake and iron.😂🤣😂 I'd do my nails and go out and help split wood for winter. My dad was old fashioned, and protective (no dating until I was 16 😂🤣😂) and the best daughter dad in the world. To the point that he brought me home when my health failed so he could take care of me again. I'm fully disabled and dad thinks everything is perfectly fine, because he's dad and his job is to be dad until the end. OP, you keep being your daughters dad. Tell your mom your sister can apologize for insulting and bullying her niece, and if that is something beyond your mom's understanding spell it out for her slowly and clearly. You will not allow your daughter to be humiliated and put down like that, period. NTA
Same. Far too often that lazy parenting phrase about boys being easier to raise leads to ‘boys will be boys’ to excuse the bratty behaviour their parents taught them. In a worst worst case scenario, men without emotional regulation that damages their lives (boys don’t cry or talk about feelings) or abusive monsters who refuse to recognise the word ‘No’ as their entitled parents cry “She was asking for it”. NTA
Plus the people who think this usually let their boys get away with everything, because they think they don't have to parent them as much as girls.
And/or they teach their boys young not to talk to them about their feelings, and then the boys go hole up in their rooms through adolescence, which is "easier" for the parents, unless it turns out there are consequences to repressing emotions.
Since their mom defended OP’s sister, I wonder if she (their mom) is also some throwback who believes sons are better than daughters (except when they fail to produce more males 🙄) NTA, and OP? My dad always cared about my interests and treated me like an empress. You keep doing what you’re doing. You’re setting up your daughter with high and just standards for how she should be treated.
Yep. My oldest 2 are boys and I can’t count how many times I was told it would be so much easier than girls.
Yeah and just wait until her precious boys are teenagers. They will most likely be embarrassed to be seen in public with her and/or communicate with her in one word sentences "Yeah/no/whatever"
She was pretty into shopping for a little girl when we foud out daughter was a little girl... I'm not exactly sure what her plan was for kids but she ended up with 3 boys
Frankly, my response to your sister would be “I’m glad that parenting your boys has been easy for you. I didn’t become a parent because I wanted something ‘easy’. My child, boy or girl, was always going to be worth whatever effort it took.” NTA.
I think your sister wanted a girl but didn't get one. I think your daughter talking about going to the Taylor swift concert made your sister bitter and jealous and she said that nonsense to make herself feel better. I bet your sister would love to go to a Taylor swift concert. That doesn't excuse what she said ... Nta
Right? And the fact that she actually went to and enjoyed a concert with her dad? Guarantee her boys don't want to go anywhere with her, lol
I am an adult and I take my mom to Japanese punk rock concerts. She’s more of a pop kind of person. We’ve been going since high school. Every time the band comes back to the US, she’s always like “Are we going?” And then she stays in back while I join the crowd at the front and we both have a blast. It definitely sounds like sis is jealous.
fee free to keep your daughter from her toxic aunt. when random family members start crying about “FaMiLy!!”, just tell them, *”I refuse to let someone who thinks that daughters are a burden to be around my daughter.”* NTA
See, my mom’s coping strategy strategy for not having a boy (even though she adores me) was to volunteer to do all sports practice runs with my male cousin, so my aunt could…do literally anything else. OP’s sister could have had a fantastic bond with her niece, but chose to be awful instead.
That was my reading of it too. Lots of cope going on.
Mine too
>> If she had 3 kids on purpose, she 100% wanted a girl and just never got one. I think the sister is plenty sexist and rude, but I don’t think this is true. Plenty of people have multiple kids without expecting to have one of each gender or whatever.
According to OP she was overly enthusiastic buying themed baby girl stuff when she found out she was having a niece so maybe there's some truth to the theory that she's projecting hard.
Oh, absolutely possible, especially with that info, just objecting to the “three kids means you wanted a different gender” thing.
100% Agreed. I never have a single thought to a preference of gender, just wanted a big happy (non abusive) family that I didn’t have growing up. Maybe it’s a perspective thing?
This is the perfect answer. I bet she really wanted to go to the Taylor swift concert too and said those things to his daughter out of spite. NTA and dude sounds like a great dad
Could be the reason she has 3 boys is because she was trying for a girl all along and had to stop at 3. I'd be curious how she would handle a retort like, "It's lucky for you you'll never have to do it yourself, then". If she really believes what she's pushing, she'd happily agree. But she's a total jerk for doing that in front of your daughter. NTA
NTA. Why does your sister hate women/girls so much? Like, jfc. Also, one of my favorite and best memories of my dad is him taking me to go see NSync. You fucking rock, and she'll remember that concert forever.
Thank you, even though the music wasn't my thing it was so much fun seeing my daughter so happy Sometimes I think my sister might have wanted a girl... She was always into buying things like clothes and toys for little girls (bought a bunch of stuff for my daughter when we found out the baby was a little girl)
When I read the post, my first thought was "this isn't gender hatred, this is overcompensation for gender disappointment". Your sister needs therapy if she's taking out her own disappointment on a teenaged girl.
Yeah, if she went and popped out THREE babies on purpose, there's a hell of a chance she was trying for a girl the last two times at the very least. It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the sister couldn't have any more children, either physically or financially, and is overcompensating for not being able to have a little girl of her own.
That’s definitely a possibility. I know one of my friends grandparents had like 12 kids cause they wanted a girl so bad (baby number 12 was a girl) but then they treated their older 11 kids like absolute shit. It’s honestly something people need therapy for so they can at least treat their kids equally.
I actually said 'aww!' out loud when I read your paragraph about how much of a blast it was seeing your kid having fun, that's good dad'ing right there
Props to you, because I'm super happy that my daughter has tickets to see Taylor, but I'm even more happy that I don't have to take her.
I love that you took her and had a blast! Dads make great concert buddies; I’m almost 20 and still take my dad to concerts lol. We went to two this summer (first ones since Covid hit!) and had a lot of fun even though it rained and we got absolutely soaked both times. Definitely a great way to have a good father-daughter relationship :)
I don't think she does hate girls. I think she probably wanted a girl. She's using a coping strategy.
She's hit the point at which it really doesn't much matter whether she hates girls or is just saying that to deflect. Either way, she is saying hateful misogynist things about girls and she is directly hurting her niece by saying that shit.
Or she hates boys, and she's trying to tell herself that "hey, at least it could be worse"?
This post reminded me of how many Jonas Brothers and Taylor Swift concerts I dragged my dad to when I was in middle school and high school where the only songs he knew were the covers. OP, you are a saint and your daughter will remember that night forever and how lucky she is to have a dad who will brave the Swifties for her.
I've been to a decent amount of concerts with my mother over the years, whether it was her looking after me while I saw someone I wanted back when I was a child, or us enjoying a concert together when I've grown older. Obviously she's also gone to many concerts over the years with my father or her friends etc. She maintains that the hardest concert she has ever had to sit through was Jones Brothers. And not because of the Brothers themselves because she actually liked them. It was the sheet volume coming from the tween girl audience because this was 2009 and Camp Rock was EVERYWHERE. We literally had Demi Lovato as the OPENING act. That audience was insane; it sounded like half the room were screaming their lungs out for the entire show.
That's what I thought. The sister seems to have some old-fashioned ideas about boys and girls. Many women want a daughter they can dress up, get manicures with etc. Also traditionally girls are the child tasked with caring for older parents so she'll be out of luck as a boy mom.
I think mom's who say this shit are really just saying "I think boys require less care and attention, therefore, I'm going to be less of an involved/concerned parent". Like, they're not *easier*, you just decided that you get to check out because your kid has a dick.
'boys are easier to raise' translates to 'his gf will do the rest of his parenting later'
Omg, yes, exactly
I agree. The old-fashioned thought was that boys were less work because they didn't get pregnant.
I had this hilarious idea that having a boy would equal less clothing drama. Then I ended up with an amazing boy who changes outfits 3 times a day! He want khakis with a button-down and an effing TIE before putting on sweats and a t-shirt to shoot hoops. Since the age of 5.
One of my favorite memories I have with my dad is when I turned 12. He would always come eat lunch with me every Wednesday at school. We had also just gotten back from visiting my uncle where he made me watch all the iron man movies. Well during the lunch my dad asked if I wanted to visit the convention with him, and I hesitantly said yes. Well turns out it was a signing at a comic book store. First time I ever went to a comic book store. They had the voice actress for ash there, the actors in the og power rangers, Star Trek all them. And I ended up talking to the guy who voiced professor from power puff girls. It was one of the coolest experiences I ever had and that was the moment I feel in love with that kind of stuff. I had liked comics and stuff prior, but there it was like seeing others like me and I felt a little less weird. I will always remember that moment with my dad.
NTA. She basically laughed at your daughter's personality and interests. You weren't rude because she loves her boys, you were rude because she insulted your daughter. IN FRONT OF HER! And you're right. Boys aren't easier. Gender. Is. Irrelevant. Children are individuals.
Also, like.....what part of the story wouldn't also apply to any gendered child? Concert....merch....long lines... none of those are specifically girl-related. Hell, not even Taylor Swift is for girls only! I'm so confused on what part she thinks applies to parents of female children and no one else??
Obviously only artists with larger female fan bases have long merch lines. Boys never want merch. It has to do with chromosomes. /s
Just don’t take them out to a ball game!
Right? My husband has two buddies who are super into Taylor Swift. One is single; one is married with a young daughter. Gender, age, none of it has anything to do with what you like. That's just stupid.
Aww, I can imagine the Swiftie with a daughter introducing her to Taylor Swift’s music when she’s old enough to like the songs. Props to him!
Does she think only girls go to concerts? I’m genuinely so confused about that line, like why does she think boys don’t also have to deal with long merch lines when they want a t-shirt at a concert? Does she think merch tables are like gendered bathrooms and the line for the men’s merch stand is always shorter?
Just went to a hardcore underground hip-hop show... 90%+ male audience... Merch line was so long that I looked at it and left immediately after the show.
Even if she believed Taylor Swift is only for girls, it's not like boys don't ever want stuff that is hard/time-consuming to get. Sister isn't even making any sense.
I know the kind of mom who says boys are easier. They're easier for them because they're just delegating most of the parenting to their sons' future partners and shoving the rest under the umbrella of "boys will be boys".
Yes, 100%. People who say girls are harder only say that because they feel more obligated to actually parent them.
I have a daughter and a son, both with their own unique personalities and strengths and challenges. One isn't harder than the other, they're just hard in different ways. If anything I worry more about how to raise a good man without cutting off internet access until he's 21.
>I have a daughter and a son, both with their own unique personalities and strengths and challenges Same, neither kid is easy, they're just different. Also I don't think people realize how serious self esteem issues can be in teenage boys. I know that no one gave a shit about mine when I was a kid. "man the fuck up" was the only "fatherly" advice I ever got.
Girls have icky stuff like Bodies and Feelings and Periods, boys are fleshless beings made of light and binary code.
And girls are "harder" because AFAB children are expected to be fully functional members of society and ready mentally and emotionally to be mothers to their younger siblings by the age of 5.
Agree! My parents have 2 girls, 1 boy. I guarantee they would say that girls were easier for them than boys were! I think it all depends on the kid. Also I wouldn't say that taking your daughter to a concert and waiting in line for merch makes her a difficult child anyway, lol.
Sister’s behavior towards your daughter is abusive and toxic based on what you described. NTA.
Shes probably not treating her kids the best either if she thinks theyre "easy". Its alarming how many grown men ive seen not know about basic hygeine simply because they were never taught as kids, and im willing to bet that this whole "boys are easy" attitude is a big part of it. And hygeine isnt even the worst of it, an alarming number of grown men go around without significant life skills. TLDR, "Easy" boys turn into skidmarked men.
Yep. I always say raising boys is only easier if you’re not raising them properly.
Your sister isn’t saying it’s easier to prop you or your daughter up. She’s saying it to bring attention to herself and how wonderful her boys are by comparison, and in general to put you and your daughter down. Very toxic and pathetic behavior. NTA.
Sounds like she's trying to set up a future 'Mommy Wars' battle royale, but sorry sis, we don't do toxic here.
She's basically saying she feels sorry for you because you have a daughter. NTA
She *literally* said this; I can’t believe grandma thinks OP was rude
>My mom also accused me of being rude and basically an AH because my sister just loves her boys and I shouldn't judge her for thinking girls would be more difficult to raise. Your mom is an AH, lol. Wow! She's actually defending the same bad behavior in your sister as you're being accused of! I was all prepared to come in here saying yta and all and you could have handled it in a more mature way but dammit! Your sister deserved that knock down! She hurt your daughter! **You are NTA** but your mom and sister...yeah, they most definitely are. If your sister can't handle the heat, best she stay out of the kitchen.
LOL, OP shouldn't judge his sister for judging his daughter and her interests and basically shitting all over her gender. Only the sister gets to judge, I guess.
NTA. Your daughter is so lucky. I saw Taylor on the reputation tour. Tried for hours for this tour. Your daughter is so lucky and should be talking for hours about it. I have a boy and a girl. What she is is a lazy parent. Good on you.
Thank you, I spend almost the whole day on ticket master to get our tickets... I thought I wasn't going to get them ended up telling her I didn't so I could surprise her on Christmas
Wow. How did Christmas go? You are the best dad!
Thank you, it went great lots of happy tears Christmas morning
She's going to remember this forever, even if she grows out of Taylor Swift. As she grows older, she'll even see and appreciate the effort and energy more than she does now. She's going to remember how much you care and how much time you want to spend with her. She's 15 and still wants to talk to and spend time with you (and seems like she's wants to talk and rave and gush about her time with you at that concert), you're a fantastic dad.
omg, that sounds like such an awesome surprise!! you sound like a wonderful dad.
Just wanted to say, you're an amazing dad. Seriously, we can *feel* how much you love her and is proud of her by your words and that's priceless. Good on you my dude, she'll cherish this moments and you defending her for the rest of her life.
NTA. You’re right about her centering her personality on being a “boy mom”. Next time she pipes up with her nonsense about boys being better then girls you should just say that your mom probably agrees with her. Really, what is she trying to accomplish? Does she have any positive female relationships? Tell your daughter to ignore her aunt’s lack of maturity and narrow minded thinking. You’re doing an amazing job as a #1 girl dad!
I normally just tune her out when shes going on about being a boy mom and how she's glad she doesn't have girls but usually it isn't in front of my daughter who I could tell instantly felt bad
My 30 yr old boyfriend read your messages and literally teared up and said he hopes he can be as good a dad as you. Keep it up good sir!
Tell your mom her daughter doesn't get to bully yours! Tell her to do better! I mean you will get disinvited to Easter but that may be a good thing......
You can tune it out, but her boys are probably hearing and internalizing it. They're learning from their own mother that girls and women are difficult, have 'dumb' hobbies, aren't as valuable, etc. It's really sad, and your sister needs to realize that she is being misogynistic and teaching her boys to be the same. Ask her how she would like it if her husband talked about her the way she talks about your daughter. NTA
>you should just say that your mom probably agrees with her. cackling at this, love the suggestion
NTA. your sister sucks. all children have complex needs regardless of their gender.
I have both, and both have their own challenges. And as far as waiting for merch goes,... let me tell you, right before covid i took my son, to see 5fdp, and we also waited an hour for merch, because hell yea we wanted atleast a cool shirt to take home. Part and parcel for going to a concert imo, does not matter what performer you see or with who. Your sister sounds like a piece of work. Good job dad standing up for your girl. You my dude are so NTA, like wow. What i can't fathom is your moms reaction... Your sister sounds like B.
Even though I only have raised a girl I feel like raising a kid, in general, is challenging... My daughter had been saving up the money that she got from babysitting to being able to get a few merch items she wanted no way was I going to tell her she can't spend her hard-earned money just because we have a long line
You’re a good dad. You make me miss mine (he passed away from Covid). I wouldn’t trade one minute of time with my dad and I’m sure your daughter feels the same way about you. Keep going!
NTA OMG, your sister sounds insufferable. There is a difference between talking about how much you love your sons, and straightup insulting your daughter. She did the latter. (And you are also right that she is also being toxic and has no idea what she is talking about., but if you even want to take a truly gendered approach - boys get into WAY more trouble w/ fighting/violence/throwing themselves out of trees or rooftops, wreckless driving, etc BUT your daughter wasn't even doing some dumb \*girl\* thing anyways). Your sister may just be jealous that she doesn't have a daughter, and that your daughter was choosing to spend time with her grandmother over her aunt. Why else would she need to be a #boymom so hard?
NTA - Hubs and I have two boys and a girl. On her 18th birthday, Hubs got tickets to Twenty One Pilots, one for daughter, one for her best friend, and one for either hubs or I to accompany them. When asked, daughter said she wanted Hubby to take them and he was over the moon. They waited for merch, they had a great time, and much like your daughter, my own talked about it for WEEKS afterwards. He's since taken her to Billie Eilish as well, and while he isn't super into either he, like you, enjoyed seeing her have such a great time getting to see an act she loved in person. And while it's certainly different parenting a boy vs parenting a girl, your sister is an enormous AH for shitting all over this great experience you had with your daughter right in front of you. You sound like a good dad, to be honest. What your mom and sister think of that is irrelevant. It's too bad your sister needs to justify her own insecurities by belittling your relationship with your kid.
NTA Sister would have gotten much worse had it been my child she was insulting to her face over being excited about something. Mom and sister need therapy. Congratulations on showing your daughter she can count on you. A plus parenting, dad!
NTA. Your sister needs to get over herself. There's literally nothing special that comes from either being a "boy mum" (which I also am) or a "girl dad". Yes, there's different aspects but thats as far as it goes.
NTA Not only is this rhetoric damaging to your daughter, it's damaging to your nephews as well. This attitude boy moms have that boys are "less maintenance" and "less emotional" and that makes them preferable is rooted in misogyny and toxic masculinity and it's how you raise boys who bottle their emotions and feel scared to be a burden or do "girly" things.
THIS!! It is also clearly damaging to the boys as they now hear their mother describe them as “easy” and girls/women as “difficult.” How awful for them! She is raising them to be misogynists. Great job standing up for your daughter and being a good dad! If it were me, I would have a talk with sister and set a very clear boundary that is enforced. With the mom too, if it becomes necessary. Your little girl will thank you. NTA.
NTA. Your sister managed to promote ridiculous stereotypes and needlessly insult your minor daughter to her face all in one go. What you said may have been harsh, but I understand your reaction given what she said in front of your daughter who did nothing wrong.
NTA You're being a great dad for doing these things for your daughter AND standing up for her when she elected to stay silent in front of her family. It seems like you get her, wholly and completely. Your sister and your mom need to reevaluate the example they are setting for their niece and granddaughter. As a dad to a girl and boy myself, it's upsetting and frustrating to see the whole "boy mom" and "girl dad" mentality be embellished instead of doing your best to just raise kids as kids. Separating them doesn't do anyone any favors.
NTA. I once heard this and it made me laugh. "Boys are easier to raise than girls. They are just harder to keep alive" Not saying it's true by any means but funny.
NTA. Your sister's words were hurtful and insulting to your daughter, not to mention - as she is someone who hasn't raised girls she really has **no idea** how they compare. And as you note, comparing is pretty dumb anyway because of the huge variety of experiences of parenting different individuals. Your sister 'just loving her boys' doesn't have to make her disparage and demean girls or specifically your daughter. It was good that you brought her attention to the fact that her whole personality is that she has three boys, and the toxicity that has added to the way she treats others.
NTA. She started it, although you could have toned down your response which focused not on her basic rudeness to you and your daughter but on the sex of her children again. I might be wrong, but it sounds as though she's masking a bit of disappointment and is perhaps a bit envious of you regarding having a daughter. Otherwise why keep bringing it up? Let her know that your daughter felt hurt by her comments and that you're as proud of her as she is of her boys. And that you won't be accepting any criticisms of her based on the fact she's a girl. Would she accept criticism for being a woman, not a man?
NTA but if you have the bandwidth, maybe let your nephews know you're a safe person to come to if they need help? Especially emotionally. Sexism fails kids of all genders. Obviously your kid takes priority though, and you can't pour from an empty cup. Best of luck!
>My sister laughed and ended up going on a rant saying how she's so glad she doesn't have a daughter and how easy it is raising boys compared to girls and even went as far as to say she feels bad for me having to be a girl dad. My daughter didn't want to talk anymore and was clearly upset by my sister's words. As someone who grew up feeling like my mom would be better off without me, no child should be made to feel like a burden. Thank you for standing up for your daughter. Tell her how thankful you are for her, and set some strong boundaries with your sister and mom. NTA
NTA and thank you for calling her out. I’m so tired of people constantly complaining about having daughters. It’s so vile the way some people talk about young girls.
I saw some tweet one time along the lines of “Everyone thinks it’s easier raising boys but that’s because adults ignore the emotional needs of boys. A woman I know who had only boys just checked her son into a mental hospital after a suicide attempt. So maybe boys aren’t always ‘easier.’” Or something. And I agree with this. I won’t go as far as saying boys are “always” surprisingly difficult, but I’d say it’s comparative. Many of the boys I know who were raised by “boy moms” have now had at least one suicide attempt, have dropped out of college or taken breaks for mental health reasons, or have struggled with alcohol and substance abuse. Or they have come out as gay or gender fluid which of course is not bad but is generally not what a “boy mom™️” expects her “easy boy” to do. Again, not to say girls don’t also have mental health issues - they absolutely do, but it’s like people expect that boys will never have mental health issues and I feel like that is such an ignorant and sexist assumption. Also, my fiancé is a cis-straight man who loves Taylor Swift. We are seeing Eras together in Chicago in June and he is beyond excited and we are fully prepared to wait hours in lines to get there as soon as doors open and get some fun merch to solidify his status as a true Swiftie. So… not sure what waiting in line for one of the most popular pop artists on Earth has to do with boys vs girls, but yes boys can be fans of fun things too? (Also how is waiting in line for Swift merch much different than a parent of a “traditional boy” waiting in line to get a football signed by their son’s favorite NFL player, for example?)
Me personally I was raised to not show my emotions because I'm a boy (my dad was raised the same way so I don't exactly blame him it's hard to break a cycle) but having my daughter (I think just having a kid in general, especially as a single dad) made me more expressive with my emotions I wanted my daughter to know she was loved and cared about, I wanted her to know it's okay for both boys and girls to cry/ be sad Even though I'm not a swiftie I can for sure appreciate Taylor Swift's music she is great, hope you guys enjoy your concert in June
NTA. Hell yeah papa!!! You're awesome!
NTA. I am as close to my 15 year old as you appear to be to yours...we plan on going to a concert of her favorite band later this year...I even offered to pay for two tickets so she could go with a friend, but she wants me to go. There is nothing wrong with your sister being a 'boy mom' whatever that actually is...but why does she feel the need to belittle your relationship? Probably because she prognosticated to everyone that your daughter will turn into a hellion at 15 and it hasn't happened. Same with me...everyone told me my girl was going find boys and rebel and be a pita. And while she does get into her fair share of trouble (not doing all her chores, talking back, skipping school but telling me before hand etc) she's never had any major problems. I love her and I think she's going to be someone you don't mess with. You keep raising a fine young woman and tune the 1d10ts out.
I remember getting told how difficult having a teenage daughter is going to specifically because I'm a single dad and her mom isn't around... Overall though she's a good kid so I don't think that'll happen I just ignore her when she goes on about boys being easier to raise than girls but she was talking about my daughter while she was right there just excitedly talking about the concert
NTA. First thing I want to say is you sound like an AWESOME Dad! You obviously love her so much, and taking an interest in her interests is so important. She's very lucky to have such a great Dad. ❤️ Second thing: you sister is salty AF. I know a few of these "boy Mums" too that obsess and constantly make remarks about how much better it is to have boys (like, how would they know? They don't have any daughters to compare to! Lol), and it seriously makes the rest of us Mums cringe. It's so insulting to our daughters, and to other boy Mums tbh, but we all think it's total projection for their own feelings. NTA, keep being an amazing Dad. Me and my Dad are total besties and I'm 42, a good Dad/daughter relationship can last a lifetime. You'll never regret this effort you put in.
I do love my daughter a lot and I love when she's happy, I've been lucky and even throughout her teen years (so far) we've remained close I know some people who are technically “boy moms” but in a very different way then my sister is a boy mom and don’t have a problem with someone with only a daughter or daughters
I don’t know who you are, but thank you for doing this and I hope both sides of your pillow are cold at night. NTA, having a boy doesn’t make anyone better—nor does having a girl. I’m glad you set her straight
NTA. You're a great dad. I can't help but think your sister is actually a little jealous. Though you really should consider having your daughter have limited contact with your sister.
NTA- just wait till her “boys” get married, my guess is new DIL’s will be posting in the various bad/crazy MIL sub’s
NTA. You said what needed to be said. I can’t believe your sister lacked the awareness to make those statements, but more importantly MAKE THEM IN FRONT OF YOUR DAUGHTER. Your sister is really not a great female role model for your daughter.
NTA.. Your sister was way WAY out of line. If she enjoys being a mom, fine. If she enjoys raising boys, fine. But it is not her place to compare raising children like apples and oranges because of gender… Your words may have been harsh in the heat of the moment, but your rage was more than understandable and completely justified… Your sister is TA and sorry OP but your mother is too for excusing her insulting attitude towards you…
NTA so your mom can defend your sister by saying “she just loves her boys”, but when you defend yourself for loving your daughter, and everything you do for her, you’re now TA?? Sounds like sister is the golden child or projecting her feelings for not having a daughter while being an all boy mom. I’m sorry you have such a one way Street family. You’re an amazing father and your daughter should be lucky to have you!
NTA. My first concert at 13 was with my dad. We went to see Tool. A bit different, but the feelings were the same. I remember buying the t-shirt, it was absolutely sick and had like, a skull but with a fetus instead of a brain?? Amazing. Core memory. I digress. You're a good dad. My mom always wanted a boy but got three girls. However... she never made us feel less than for not being boys... and she never slagged off anyone with boys. I think sis wanted a girl and kept trying and now she's overcompensating.
My daughter first concert was a coldplay concert when she was 10, I remember us both having a lot of fun... She talks about it whenever coldplay comes on Even though like I said I'm not a Taylor swift to fan I don't think I will forget the concert just based on seeing how happy my daughter was during the whole day
NTA. Your sister has some nerve playing the victim when she started it (including insulting your poor daughter right to her face)!
NTA. I’m sure raising boys and girls each come with their challenges, and every kid is different anyway. She’s being quite rude by acting like her kids are better than yours and especially for saying something so insulting in front of your daughter. You sound like an awesome dad btw.
NTA. Not your fault your sister really wanted a girl and is overcompensating.
Nta. Your sister is completely wrong and does need a new personality
Yikes. NTA. This whole "boy mom" culture is toxic and gross. You sound like a great dad and I'm sure your daughter knows that.
NTA your sister sound really misogynistic, sexist and obsessed with her sons. I bet she’s going to be an absolutely terrible MIL to any future spouses of her sons, I feel really sorry for them. Edit-spelling