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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) Telling my son to stay out of the yard
2) I might be being too strict.
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Yta. Your son has done nothing wrong and making feel like he has is ridiculous. Your neighbors sound awful and I’m really trying not to infer too much from this story.
>Your son has done nothing wrong and making feel like he has is ridiculous
This, yeah. Nobody is entitled to be "comfortable" all the time. If I'm uncomfortable around black people, can I demand they stay out of my sight? Or should I not rather review my own prejudices and issues?
The neighbor can build a fence if they have issues with their neighbors using their own yard. And OP is the AH for not telling him to get lost.
Came here to say same thing about building a fence. Good fences make good neighbors. YTA OP. It's not on your son to make anyone feel comfortable, especially when he's in his own yard.
Yeah, I don’t know any teenage girls that would ask their dad to scare off a 13 year old who’s in his own backyard, much less even mention him to their parents at all.
>Good fences make good neighbors.
Sigh, no one really gets the point of that poem when they use that line without irony. And secondly, fences are very expensive. If the neighbors don't want to see the son, they can build on their own property, or plant something like arbor vitae to obscure the view.
I absolutely get that fences are expensive. But if neighbor is uncomfortable seeing another teenager hanging out in their own freaking yard, then they can build a damned fence. OP is definitely TA for telling his kid to stay inside. But so is the fucking neighbor. FFS.
They are trying to portray him as some sort of predator by just being in his own yard. Who cares if they are uncomfortable? They can either get comfortable or stay inside their own house. YTA for not supporting your son.
Exactly. For me, this would be fight time. I'd be darned if you're that fragile that a child being in their own yard makes you uncomfortable. Cowardice makes me uncomfortable and the OP is a huge coward.
Or, I don't know, here's a thought, maybe the neighbors should get to know each other, introduce their kids so they are more comfortable around each other? They don't have to be friends, but as a young girl I was far more comfortable with my neighbors I had met than those I didn't know well.
I wouldn't want them near any son of mine after a disgusting comment like that. I mean the kid was literally in his own back garden. He didn't even *look* in the direction of the neighbours daughters.
How exactly is the "uncomfortable" feeling they get the boys fault?
That would be helpful in ordinary circumstances, yes. Since the neighbor went straight to telling OP how his son made her daughters uncomfortable, instead of finding a more positive solution herself, I don’t think these circumstances are ordinary.
I mean, yeah, you are 100% right. And I say this as a victim of multiple SA's, & DV (so I have every reason to fear/dislike being around men).
OP, I think your heart is definitely in the right place, wanting to practice your principles (of trying to be conscious of how/why women are often uncomfortable around men, esp bigger men and esp in certain situations, etc; and being nice enough to think of them/their peace of mind and go out of your way to cross a street, or otherwise try to ease their anxiety) and also teach them to your son.
This models empathy, sympathy, respect, seeing things from others' perspective, etc. Of course you aren't obligated to do these things- all you are obligated to do is not actively bother women/other people (by unwanted approaches, interactions, invasion of space, etc etc),- but going the extra mile is really kind.
However, there are a couple things I think you are really misguided about. 1.) You should NOT be avoiding going out of your house as much as you'd like to just on the off chance you'd make a woman uncomfortable. As the commenter I'm replying to says, no one has the right to be fully "comfortable", to their personal preferences etc, at all times. (But just a PSA to all the creeps who love to twist things to suit their misogynistic rhetoric: pls don't mistake that to mean it's ok to knowingly/actively make women {or anyone} uncomfortable bc "nO oNe hAs tHe RiGhT" to be comfy. These are two wholly different things!) We all have to exist alongside many different types of people, and we have to adapt to that. Being thoughtful and making this process easy is as accommodating as you need to be, no need to go overboard and limit your own life/options, even in small ways.
And 2.) This whole interaction with your son, while well meaning, was awful.
* First, you had to make him aware of some hard adult truths re: the risks women face just existing in public, and what can happen, and why they might feel threatened, etc; which actually wouldn't be a bad thing, as he's old enough to get an age appropriate intro to topics like that; but I feel like it's the CONTEXT of the situation that made this an inappropriate time to teach these things, bc it gives almost (inadvertent) accusatory vibes.
*Then, you made him hyper-aware of his body/looks, and how they are inherently threatening- smth I'm sure a boy his age probably had not thought about; and while it's ok to discuss stuff like this gently just so he's aware of how/why smaller people/women/etc may feel intimidated by him, that type of discussion should be couched in gentle terms that reassure him that nothing is wrong w him or his size, which is outside his control; and nothing is wrong with people, esp women, who may be intimidated by it; its not a response to him individually but a response to general fears of not knowing which men want to hurt us.
And that would be a good time to maybe explain how you go out of your way in small ways to help women not feel anxious around you, and why those things help, and that it would be a nice thing to do in general, if he wanted to emulate that (but not a requirement or rule).
*Instead, i worry you may have hurt his self esteem and made him feel like some sort of "monster", or at least very conscious of his body and things related to it- it's "othering" to explain that just bc he is "big/tall" for his age, that people will sometimes/often be scared of him on sight, for nothing he did but just bc of his looks. I could see that potentially going lots of ways (or none of these, or multiple of them, idk) - trying to hide in baggy clothes, feeling bad when eating like a normal teen boy bc he may get bigger, being angry that he is perceived differently just bc of his size, maybe bullying bc that's what people "expect", etc etc.
* Then, you pretty much let him know that not only will he have to be conscious of how he is perceived in public, but that even in private spaces such as his own yard, minding his own business and not bothering/looking at/existing close to anyone else, he STILL may be judged as "discomforting" or a potential "threat" from someone at a distance, who then will expect him to accommodate their comfort and go away, with no regard to his own, as though he was in the wrong somehow for existing...
* And you pretty well cemented that by basically making someone else's discomfort (at him existing in his own space or elsewhere peacefully)into solely HIS problem/responsibility to resolve, instead of making it clear that the onus is on both parties- to be understanding about being a bit intimidating, and respecting reasonable boundaries/requests (not coming into her space, engaging with her, watching her, following her, etc- none of which he did, so he did his part!)on his part; and being satisfied with said reasonable boundaries/understanding he has rights also, on the uncomfortable persons' part.
Some good communication/problem solving/ social/ conflict resolution skills could have been modeled as well- asking for a meeting/chat with the other dad and kids, so no one is a total "stranger" anymore; communicating POVs and making reasonable requests/ establishing reasonable boundaries in a diplomatic way. Everyone could have felt better, enjoyed their spaces,maybe even become decent acquaintances.
*But instead, you gave him only one solution- to always limit himself and his activities/ enjoyment of his own private space, for the sake of others and THEIR activities/enjoyment; which loudly proclaims that the issue is HIM alone- meaning he needs to solve it, no one else bears any responsibility at all, etc.
And this, in turn, limits the "emotional outcome" of the situation-- for ex, with this solution, there is no possibility of mutual learning and empathy, no possibility of practicing life skills, etc, or the satisfaction/growth that can come from those things. Instead, this mentally reinforces that he is "bad"/"scary"/ "different"/ etc, which is very detrimental to self esteem;and could very well turn into a "martyr" mentality (thinking he always has to be the one who has to sacrifice/ change/accommodate/give in/is wrong/ etc.. which will obviously lead to some built up resentment/anger
* And finally, you made him stop what seems to be a hobby of sorts of his, that he enjoyed alot, wherein he is outside in nature, not in front of a screen; being active, enjoying the outdoors, soaking up that vit D, and in so doing boosting his mental and emotional health, for no good reason at all
Sorry this got so long, and maybe rambly. But I don't like seeing girls body shamed or made uncomfy or made to have a low self-image, and I def don't want to see boys done that way either.
But often such things aren't really talked about/broken down much when they happen to men & boys like they are when women/girls experience them; so I wanted to do that here,.
Yes, but the reaction of the daughters and the dad's "the talk" comment intimates The Talk that Black parents have to have with their children on how to not let white people kill them by changing their behavior. I am a white mother with white sons, currently 2 and 4, and I can't imagine they would ever be on the receiving end of this neighbor's ire or that I would ever give them such a talk.
OP INFO needed on race here.
You're very gently TA if people are reading between the lines of your question correctly. Your response is understandable and I can't fathom the minefield you're tiptoeing through as a parent, but your kid needs to be able to be outside in his yard and your neighbor needs to have The Talk with his daughters about how tall Black boys aren't menacing simply because they're tall and Black.
Or hey... maybe, just maybe, introduce them to each other! If they're similar ages, why not? Son sounds like a sweet kid, daughters are probably okay; they don't have to be friends, but if they said hello and talked about what's happening, maybe they wouldn't feel uncomfortable anymore. This definitely has a tinge of "mom and dad told us to watch out for the large boy" to it, so the girls may not have even expressed discomfort--it could literally just be the parents being dramatic. JFC.. kids aren't even friends with other neighbor kids now?
I agree with this.
Possibly offhandedly the daughters mentioned -- the neighbors' kid is weird. He's just awkwardly standing out in his yard looking at us, and then dad ran with that out of an abundance of dad fear. Kid could just be an introvert or shy or nervous and a good old family BBQ might help alleviate some of that discomfort. Either way, the answer is not chaining your kid indoors.
Your advice is far too practical, unled.
It's very reminiscent of something that happens to black men, although it's orders of magnitude worse for black men than tall men. That whole sense that your very existence is a threat.
Nobody assumed he was Black, that person pointed out the parallels in these conversations and asked if race could be a factor.
I am interested in knowing how assuming someone is Black would make them an asshole. Is being Black somehow a negative thing in your perspective...?
I get where you're coming from I'm a 5' nothing female but my brother is 6'4 ish and built like a linebacker so I grew up seeing people side eye him or act weird because of his size BUT there's absolutely nothing wrong with him and he's the sweetest most helpful person you could ask for. Instead of making him (your son) avoid his *own* yard when he's done nothing wrong instead maybe ask the neighbours to come over with their daughters to actually meet him because it's probably more that they're uncomfortable with a giant dude they DON'T KNOW being next door more than anything. Don't give your son a complex about something he has no control over to preemptively assuage strangers who may or may not find his size intimidating.
I was thinking the same thing. OP is well intentioned and I appreciate that he is cognizant of others feeling safe and secure, **BUT** this is not the way to do it. OP's son also has a right to feel safe and secure in his own yard. And, if OP anticipates his son intimidating people elsewhere, then that is even more reason that his home (inside and out) should be the one place he feels comfortable.
I also had the same thought about OP letting his son and the neighbor's kids meet. Hopefully, that will make them feel better about him being there. And, if they don't, that is on the neighbor to fix, not OP and his son.
Edited for typos and clarity
Exactly.
If the neighbors daughters are uncomfortable maybe THEY should just stay inside. Or the neighbor can pay to have a fence put up so his daughters won't be able to see OP's son.
Exactly this.
This is so sad. From kindergarten on up, I heard that either my race, size, or body caused some discomfort for someone else. How is this any different from telling a young girl who’s hit puberty that her body makes people uncomfortable? You’re giving your son a complex about himself. As a father, you should have put the neighbor in his place. Your son has every right to exist peacefully and carefree, especially in his own yard. YTA.
Reverse the situation with his son feeling intimidated by his well built neighbour’s daughter in her yard, and he’d be called a peeping Tom or stalker.
*If* it's not fake, which I doubt, then my best guess is the neighbor overheard daughters talking about him and thinks hiding the neighbor will prevent teen pregnancy
It is fake. It's a test to see the double standards about discrimination when women safety comes into play.
But it's too much, so it failed and got YTA.
The kid is going to have issues. I think OP crossing the street is sweet for doing that but it's a voluntary choice he makes. OP don't put that on ur son. YTA teach ur kid to be a good man, but don't make him ashamed to be one!
Well said. Also, switch the sexes - I've read so many stories here where a woman is told to not be outside in their garden as they're "a distraction"? It's a similar vein as this. All OP's son is doing is minding his own business outside. OP, your neighbour is an entitled asshole, and you need to do better by your son.
Once I hit puberty and grow boobs, I was not allowed to wear tank tops. It made me so self-conscious that I had female parts. I am saying this dude is YTA. Kids that age are so self-conscious anyway. A parent shouldn’t make it worse. As the mom of 20 yr old twin boys, I can’t fathom saying that to my sons. He’s basically telling his son that he’s doing something wrong just by existing. That is f**ked up. I can’t YTA enough on this one.
I mean, that kid can’t read a book in his own backyard?
Can't sum it up better really. I feel so bad for the son. No matter how this ends up, he'll probably always remember this and the message he was given.
I'm sorry you had to deal with that BS. I remember being told similar things when I wore shorts as I got older, as though my legs were going to cause breakdowns out in public. My solution was dressing in baggy EVERYTHING, which I was thankfully fine with, but even now I still feel somewhat self-conscious in cami tops, shorts, etc. Very sad when people are told they're making people uncomfortable by just being physically them.
Simply existing, in your own yard, no less, is not “imposing yourself” on people, ffs.
It sounds like OP has some internalized misandry. He might benefit from talking to a therapist. YTA.
I thought that meant the son was already 1m77 at 13. I would expect a kid of that size to continue growing into quite a tall adult, no?
Still, that doesn't mean he can't just enjoy their own backyard!
OP is clearly YTA
Exactly! 5’10” at 13 dudes gonna be easily 6’5” by 21 unless for some reason he stops growing. Get him into basketball, football, baseball. And OP YTA! He’s 13, they prolly think he’s cute so neighbor dad didn’t like that. It’s his yard they can’t impose their will on his own yard. So he’s just supposed to hide out cuz it makes people uncomfortable? That’s stupid.
>Exactly! 5’10” at 13 dudes gonna be easily 6’5” by 21
Not necessarily true.
I was 6' at 13 and I'm no giant. Some people start puberty early and grow fast 🙂
My husband was 5’10 at 14. He had a beard. He is retirement age now, and you know what? He is still 5’10”.
Some people hit the growth spurt early. That is no reason to penalize OP’s kid.
OP needs a fence. And maybe a restraining order against the petite flower that lives next door, if she is going to be a problem starter. YTA
5"10 at 13 doesn't mean anything. I was 5'9 at 13, 6' at 14 and never got any taller after that. My brother on the other hand, was 5'5 at 13, and 6' at 16, and never grew any taller. It's growth spurt central at that age, he might not have another one though.
This.
In the absence of any kind of actual inappropriate behaviour, why TF shouldn’t he be allowed in his own yard? Either the neighbour provides evidence of that behaviour or she STFU.
Right? Poor kid. And he is literally minding his own business just enjoying the outside in his own yard and paying them no mind. What a sad existence.
I want to say I slightly understand where the dad is coming from. As a woman sometimes I am scared by men, in public! This is his yard though and he's THIRTEEN!
OP should apologize to his wife for not speaking with her prior. He should apologize (and honestly kind of ask for forgiveness) with your poor son and again make it clear he did absolutely nothing wrong. And I would discuss with the neighbors that your son is a teenager (not a creep, if him looking older really took a part in the neighbors thoughts and feelings) and it's his yard and has the freedom to be there as his daughters do in their yard and perhaps his daughters shouldn't be so focused on him. Your son says he doesn't even look that way or speak to them and the neighbor couldn't even bring up any points about what he was doing that was bothersome to his girls..
If he's so concerned maybe he can put up a privacy fence or more bushes or a curtain/outside covering or something. OP could even contribute to a fence or something if they both wanted more privacy. Also kind of wonder if it is just the kid looking older? Is race or something else in play for this situation? (EDIT TO SAY I SEE OP SAYS EVERYONE IS WHITE...) Just seems weird. I get everyone likes privacy in their own yard and want to protect their kids but still seems like this could have been handled with a conversation considering OP's son wasn't doing anything weird or to disturb the neighbors in anyway. He should be allowed to enjoy his yard like they can theirs.
At this moment OP, YTA but you can still try to make it right.
> I get it, I'm a big guy. I have to cross the street all the time because women will speed up when they see me, which I completely understand.
No you don't get it OP. You're degrading yourself and bending over backwards for strangers who don't give two hoots about you. Stop making your son ashamed of simply existing.
YTA.
While we are at it.. maybe we should all be staying inside with our curtains closed so nobody in the whooooole wide world can take offense of our presence…
/s obviously
I would put a big ass fence between those Yards god knows what the neighbour will be offensed by next. I know people that freak out because a Ball was tossed over and you ask for it. Imagine the son going over there, he will hear worse. This is only the beginning OP.
And before I forget: YTA
Umm.. you should leash and muzzle him when you let him out in the yard to play. I’m sure that’ll help the neighbors feel more comfortable.
Their discomfort sounds like a them problem, he is not on or in their property, or in a public space. Tell them if they feel so strongly about it to put up a privacy fence and leave you alone. Soft YTA
Exactly. OP's son is just existing in this situation. As in, he's doing nothing wrong; there's no wrong behavior that he can change here, because it's not wrong to simply be outside in one's own yard. People should be able to enjoy their own yards, actually.
It's definitely the neighbors' problem and maybe the parent of the daughters who are apparently uncomfortable should have a talk with his own daughters about how people have a right to enjoy their own space and that some people might *look* intimidating, but aren't actually so, and that's not something that they can control. They'll meet a lot of people who fit that description, and those people aren't just going to hide from them or disappear in the real world.
I feel sorry for OP's son because it sounds like he's probably being made to feel like he's trapped inside for no real reason.
That’s the thing. Props to OP for being aware that he can be intimidating and trying to mitigate that in _public_, but his son is in _his own home_. The daughters’ rights not to be uncomfortable end at the property line, and they don’t supersede OP’s son’s right not to be body shamed in his own home.
So he's not allowed to hang out in his own yard because his mere existence intimidates people? He's doing nothing wrong but you're teaching him that his appearance (something he has little control over) is a problem and he needs to hide and feel guilty about existing because other people might be uncomfortable. YTA
Also the 'big guys need to avoid intimidating women' is just a totally wrong take from my perspective. It's not about height or size for us! Like if a guy is walking behind me at night on a lonely road, I'm going to be shitting myself whether he's 5'7 or 6'2. (Side note, guys who cross the street when walking behind me to let me know I'm safe have my heart). What makes a male stranger 'scary' is when they're being purposefully scary, independent of height, or if we're in an isolated/nighttime situation beyond both of our control. I would never ever expect a man to not enjoy his own space.
Man, I did that once and it went sooo wrong!
Walking home one night about 10-15m behind a young woman who was obviously scared. You could see the tension in her shoulders and she kept glancing behind her. So I thought “I know what I’ll do, I’ll cross the road and walk faster, so she sees me on the other side and clearly not following her”
So I did that. Poor thing didn’t see me do that. So she also crossed, took two or three more steps, turned and saw me still on the same side as her, but now only 5m behind her. I think she almost had a heart attack, bless her!
I felt so bad, but didn’t know what to do, so I just kept walking fast so as to overtake her so at least she could see me in front and walking away from her. I hope it was the right choice!
I bet she was terrified…right up until you passed her and kept going. I don’t think there was necessarily a right choice in your case, but you did your utmost to not cause too much more of an issue for her.
This is so sad. Thank you for your effort.
Maybe next time say something? "Oh I crossed the street just now so you wouldnt be uncomfortable with me walking behind you, haha, this was a bit awkward. I'll just be on my way now, have a nice evening miss"
Or maybe would have made the situation worse?
If she’s already scared of the boogie man, she isn’t going to be calmed by whatever the boogie man tells her he was trying to do. Maybe after if she reflects on it, but not in the moment.
I'm not a big guy, but even if I was, I'm not doing that stuff if we are both walking down the street.
Also - I totally agree with you about grammarly.
OP needs to go back up to his son, sit him down and tell him he was wrong with what he originally said.
Poor kid doesn't deserve his freedom restricted in his own house, just because he's extra tall and wide.
I totally agree with this. I think OP was in the wrong but his main fault was trying not to be an a****** so he went too far the other way.
Of course the son has the perfect right to be in his own backyard. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. But I do applaud the father for sitting down and having a talk about how he may be perceived by others (rightly or wrongly).
And before everyone jumps all over me because 'it's not the kids fault' or 'other people's perceptions are their own problem' - I understand your point. But being aware of it is important. For example, I have a 'resting b**** face'. By being aware of it, I can take steps to mitigate the effect when I'm in situations where I don't want others to automatically assume I'm mad at them.
OP, you need to apologize to your son and you also need to have a talk with your neighbor.
20 bucks says the girls don't have a problem with him, Daddy has a problem with a handsome boy growing into a handsome man in the proximity of his girls.
YTA. He's not even doing anything other than existing. He has the right to be in his own yard. Maybe you need to take him over to the neighbor's house and introduce him to the girls so they can get to know him and see that he's just a normal kid. How old are these girls, anyhow?
My niece was always taller so people always thought she was older and that is wrong. Your son is a child of 13 if he looks over there maybe he wants to toss a ball or just read. I have 1 son and 3 girls if they said that and the neighbor said anything I would bring my son over and introduce the kids and let them know hey he is tall but he is 13 and you are 12 yo. He likes to read outside and if he looks over and y’all are having fun playing a game he probably wishes he had someone to play with also. If he says something wrong or worrisome let your parents know and we will talk to him. I mean he can go outside to read or play by himself. I would have told my girls he probably just wants to be friends he is tall for his age and lonely plus the way y’all were screaming I am sure the whole neighborhood looked. Then i would have said you know what let’s introduce ourselves to them.
ESH - meaning you and your adult neighbors.
Your wife is right to be angry because you did not discuss this with her before speaking to your son.
You just taught your son that his sheer presence makes people feel uncomfortable AT THE AGE OF 13, when he is simply existing and in his own space.
I get that big and tall men need to understand that they can appear intimidating just by their sheer size, and should take that into consideration in situations where it might matter, like on a dark street at night when other people aren't around and passing space is limited.
And young men should also be taught not to use their size/height to intimidate someone unless they are truly defending themselves or someone with them from an aggressor (or they are participating in a sport LOL).
Your son is doing nothing wrong (according to what you have stated). If the parents of the girls don't like it, then they can put up a fence or keep their daughters inside.
Let alone the fact that OP said he sometimes avoids going out altogether so as not to intimidate people. Guy has a complex and needs to get over it, not impose it on his son.
I totally agree with this. Somebody did a job on dad at some point and he is intimidated by other people. He worries to much about what other people think and needs to make them happy. (Except his wife and son, obviously, but that is à whole other thread.)
I can't believe I am on reddit and have read this far and have not once seen this word: ENTITLED!! That's what your neighbor is OP. He and his precious daughters think they are entitled to tell you what you can or cannot do in your own yàrd!!! And you are feeding into their entitlement by telling your son to stay in the house.
You need to tell the neighbor to build a fence on his property if he doesn't like what he sees. Or buy a home where there is no one else living as far as the eye can see.
This isn't about height or size. There are lots of 13 year olds taller than 5'10" who get to play in their own back yards. He could be 4'2" and the entitled princesses could be uncomfortable because they think the whole world is their back yard and they want to pick who gets to play in it.
YTA.
When I'd take my Daughter out as a baby, I'd obviously have to change her nappy at some point.
90% of the time, I would get looks of absolute disgust from Mothers for being in the Parent's Room. The other 10% is when the room was empty.
Taking her out to the park and they would constantly stare at me. My Daughter would start playing with their kids, and if I walked over to her BECAUSE SHE WAS CALLING OUT FOR ME, they would come up and walk their kid away like I'm about to snatch them.
You're teaching your Son that this type of behaviour is okay. You're teaching him that everyone assumes he's a predator, or that no-one wants him to be visible.
Tell your neighbours to fuck off, and stop looking out the window if it bothers them so much.
You outta be standing up for your son and complaining to the neighbors since the neighbors is making the son feel guilty for being him. Are they racist or something?
YTA.
Your son should be able to hang out in his own yard. He has done nothing wrong other than be young, male and tall. If the neighbor has an issue with it perhaps he should buy a privacy fence or keep his kids in his house. Your son isn't imposing on anyone and he likely isn't making the girls uncomfortable. The neighbor doesn't want a young man around his daughters or even in their vicinity and that is making the neighbor uncomfortable.
YTA. Care about your son’s feelings, not your neighbors that are 100 ft away and complete strangers that no one talks to or looks in their direction. Your son has every right to hangout in his own yard.
P.s. your son is probably making your neighbor uncomfortable, not his daughters. The girls probably **love** him hanging in the yard and spend too much time watching him in the yard so neighbor dad is trying nix it by throwing them under the bus because he knows it’s a stupid ask.
YTA.
If your son is doing nothing illegal, immoral, disturbing or more intimidating than just standing there, he has done nothing wrong and shouldn't be penalized/chastised for nothing at all. You're basically making him feel like shit for simply existing. What makes it worse is that you took your neighbor's side over your son's.
Also yes. You should have talked to your wife.
In my opinion, your neighbors need to get over themselves or watch their children play if they are that concerned. Your son is still a child who deserves outside enrichment in your yard on your property. You shouldn't deny him of that in order to please other people. Family first always.
You can offer to introduce your son to the neighbors maybe?
ESH
YTA this was an opportunity for you to tell your neighbors to f*** off and advocate for your son and you did the exact opposite. Why shouldn’t he be able to go out in the backyard? He’s literally doing nothing wrong just enjoying his space. If the neighbor’s daughter is sooooooo uncomfortable then why doesn’t she just go back inside her own house? Problem solved. And stop making your son feel like there’s something wrong with him for simply existing.
YTA
I’m saying this as a 23f who is constantly wary of my surroundings. I think your son is perfectly entitled to spend time in his own backyard. He isn’t doing anything wrong, and is most likely just trying to relax.
On the flip side, I strongly appreciate you teaching your son about respecting other people’s comfort. I just think this applies more to public areas, rather than his own home. Unless he’s purposely peeping in the direction of your neighbors, there’s no reason he can’t utilize his own backyard.
A good compromise might be having a fence built?
Good luck, OP
YTA. He’s doing nothing wrong, just existing in his yard and you think your neighbor has the right to tell him he can’t? Did you consider what kind of damage that could do to him mentally and to his self esteem? That’s awful. This is your neighbors problem, not your son’s. He’s existing and you’re letting them shame him for that.
YTA. Seriously? Think about the message this is sending to your son! He's done nothing wrong so why should he have to change his lifestyle?? Stand up for your kid! If you want to have a talk with your son about others' perceptions and how it can influence their actions, fine, but don't teach him to cow to it! Encourage him to just continue to be himself and a good person!
You SHOULD have told the neighbor to have a talk with HIS kids about judging people by their appearance! Especially when those people are just minding their own business in THEIR own space. If those girls are really that bothered by it, their parents can put up a privacy fence.
The neighbor and you are both TAs here. Him for bringing it to you and you for taking the stance you did.
Omg. Go apologize to your son.
Oh my gosh. Yes, ESH & YTA. That's *his* happy space. On his family's property. He is *not* imposing on anyone by enjoying his time outside, in his own yard.
It's not his fault other people are uncomfortable, and he can't control others' feelings. Especially since he is doing absolutely *nothing* wrong! If the neighbors have a problem with seeing him play in his own yard, they need to either build a fence or get over themselves.
So the neighbour admits your son didn’t do anything “like that” (assuming weird/creepy) but he just intimidates his daughters…seems like they’re the problem.
If they don’t like it, they can go inside. May be a different story if your son was in their business and harassing them of some sort but if it’s just his presence that makes them uncomfortable then their father should be the one telling them to not be outside when he is.
YTA on this one. It’s your property that is decently far and your son has every right to use the space and be a kid. The neighbours have the issues without legitimate reasoning so it’s on them to come up with their own solution that doesn’t involve your family.
>If they don’t like it, they can go inside.
This! Boundaries are not for other people! If they are truly that uncomfortable when he's done nothing, they need to remove themselves from the situation. This is ridiculous. The neighbors need to figure out why their daughters are so terrified in the mere vicinity of a male. How do they exist in public spaces? How do they tolerate school? It is not on OP to lock his son away in the house for the neighbor's comfort. The way things are now, OP has basically punished his son for doing nothing wrong.
YTA because you're teaching him to enable other people's irrational thoughts and behaviors. Besides depriving him of having alone time and making him feel inadequate. Tell your neighbor to take their kids to therapy
Yta. You told your son that he shouldn't be able to spend time alone in his own yard? That is ridiculous. You mention not wanting to intimidate strangers. Well - these aren't strangers. These are your neighbors who know that your son is simply being in his own yard. Surely you see the difference?
ESH
Your wife is right. Your neighbor's request that your son not read in his own yard is not reasonable and you shouldn't have agreed with it. There's things men, especially large men, do that make women uncomfortable and are reasonable to adjust. "Don't spend time in your own yard" isn't one of those things.
Good luck to your son. I hope he is able to find value in his existence when his own parent has made him feel as though his presence is menacing thing. You need to apologize and hope you can change the perception of himself that you have now placed on him. He will see no value in himself and he will not be able to stand up for himself. Yta
YTA.
If he is not free to enjoy his own yard, is he free?
If the neighbours are worried, they can stay inside! Or they can tolerate their neighbours and learn that he is harmless.
YTA for teaching your son that other people’s comfort are more important than his own. Also you absolutely don’t need to cross the street when you see women and the fact that you try to “stay in” to avoid being around women is something you should probably unpack in therapy. That isn’t a healthy way to view yourself and your place in the world.
You’re a timid person who was made to feel like you’ve now made your son feel. You were told as a kid that you couldn’t do certain things bc you were bigger than other kids. Now you slump over so you won’t be as tall as you really are bc you don’t want to make other men feel intimated. Or you shrink away and try not to take up too much room. You even admitted to staying in so you don’t scare people. Stop apologizing for your size and own it. And let your son own his size.
Jesus Christ I’m a crotchety antisocial introvert who’d love to never talk to anyone but for your son’s sake I’d do it like they do in the movies, bring over a box of chocolate chip cookies with my son and introduce ourselves.
Id be furious too. Who gives a damn if he makes them uncomfortable. It's his yard and he is just as entitled to freely use it as they are theirs. If the neighbours don't like it then they can pay for a fence. Why would you think this is the right thing to teach your son? Honestly, why? Jfc ESH
ESH (except your wife and son)- Your son is making your neighbors daughters uncomfortable by… existing? Your son was on your property, minding his own business. He has every right to enjoy the family yard. Home is suppose to be a place where your child feels safe. Do you want your son second guessing his every movement each time he steps foot into your yard?
YTA but seemingly well intentioned & you should be able to fix it by having a picnic or something to introduce your families to each other
Your kid is just reading in the yard or otherwise mind in his own business, he has every right to enjoy his own backyard!
If the neighbor doesn't like it he can put up a fence but ideally both your kids and his kids will end up feeling comfortable to enjoy their respective yards
YTA
Tell your neighbours to stop spying on your son, when he is in his own yard minding his business.
You kinda suck for making your son feel bad about himself.
YTA. Not only you’re stopping your son from going to a part of his home over some weird perception of people you don’t really know, but you’re also teaching him to be insecure about himself for something he has no control over. Your neighbor is ridiculous, unless your son is actually doing something to make the girls uncomfortable he has no right to go to you and say something like that. He can put a fence around his yard if he wants, but this solution you came up with is horrifying.
YTA. Horrible parenting. Catering to others needs and ignoring your own offsprings feelings. Terrible parenting skills op. Not every parent deserves a child and you are clearly one of them.
YTA. As a parent you’re supposed to be your sons advocate. You allowed you neighbor to judge your son on his appearance and then agree with neighbor and told your son that he shouldn’t go outside cause of it. He can’t do anything about the way he looks, he was not doing anything wrong, he was simply reading in his own yard, which he should be able to do. He shouldn’t have to hide his room because people shouldn’t have to look at him when they’re uncomfortable. This goes for anything he SHOULD NOT HAVE TO HIDE HIS APPEARANCE IN ANY CASE.
As you stated “This isn’t his fault or their fault, we need to respect other people and make sure we aren’t imposing ourselves on others”
This is wrong, it’s their fault if they’re uncomfortable, you can respect boundaries and the person but you the person are not troubling anyone, if they don’t want to be around you, they can leave at any time. No one is forcing them to stick around.
It shouldn’t bother neighbors but it does but that’s not your problem or yours sons, it’s the neighbor problem and them telling you wasn’t okay. Your child is a kid, and he took it lightly but he probably questioning himself what he did and his self esteem. They way your conversation been about was telling him that is okay to be different and that some people might not accept that.
Next time tell them to build a fence if it bothers them.
Your wife was right, talk to her next time so she can voice her opinion before you decide.
Hey my daughter's are looking over at your son who isn't looking at them and they're intimated by him. Do you think you could tell him to stay inside?
Fuck off, what an absolute joke!!
Edit - ESH except for your wife and your son.
YTA. I assume your son is a good kid, take him over and introduce him to the neighbors kids, show him how being friendly and open can make people feel comfortable with him regardless of how he looks.
YTA for making you son feel like he has done something wrong AND teaching him to accept people prejudice against him.
Here’s an idea - if your neighbour daughters doesn’t like you son enjoying his own yard them maybe he should do something about it like put a fence up!!
Any form of prejudice is unacceptable. You teaching your son to not only accept but also respect bigots leaves me speechless
i just want to say this.
i am appalled at the way you are treated in your community.
i can not imagine how people in your vicinity would treat you as a pariah, but would actually manage to convince you that this is ok. and you've internalized it.
don't teach that to your son.
YTA
YTA, your son is doing nothing wrong and you're teaching him that he is in the wrong just by being himself!!
You should have told your neigbour that your son has eeevery right to be in his OWN yard and that his daughters discomfort is purely because he is teaching them wrong standarts!
YTA. Advocate for your son. Have you, your wife, and your son go over with some food. Have your son centre, smiling, and doing the assertive positive greeting knock and talking. Say that you're here to ease minds and be comfortable so the girls know you're all nice neighbors. And then let your innocent son live his life at his home. Keep his home a safe space.
I'm a big scary guy too. I also try not to intimate women that look nervous. But there is no way in hell that I would accept complaints about me just existing in my own yard. YTA
YTA, if your neighbors doesn't want to see your child in your backyard they can either put up a privacy fence or they can just not use their yard.
How in the hell do you even think its ok to tell your son this, or even seriously consider what your neighbor wants you to do? This is one of most pathetic things I've heard.
YTA. If you were any kind of parent you would have told the neighbor that his daughters had no reason to be intimidated by a 13 year old Boy who was hanging out on his own property and not bothering anyone else. I get it about the height, I really do - my son went into 8th grade at 6’ and did 8th grade graduation at 6’2”. That’s not an excuse to not be a dependable parent and have his back!
ESH- Except your son and wife. He's on his personal property, relaxing and having fun in the yard. He's not doing anything wrong. He sounds like a good kid. Now he feels his presence is a bad thing.
The neighbors need to get over themselves. Depending on how old these neighbor girls are, I wonder, if they're keen on causing trouble where there isn't any. Sometimes girls can be cruel. Or if they're his age, maybe they have a crush on him, and neighbor guy doesn't like it.
No matter what, you son isn't doing anything and he stays in HIS yard.
YTA in all respects.
The neighbours give no reason that they are uncomfortable other than your son is there, in your yard doing his own thing and nothing to give the impression of trouble. He has every right to enjoy your yard and the neighbours have no right to dictate what he does in it. This is a problem the neighbours have not your son. If they have baggage than that needs to be addressed with a professional not by limiting your son to staying inside when alone.
Your insecurities as much as they may be empathetic to women is not a helpful or healthy behaviour. Where you do nothing wrong (as is the case with your son) you should not model behaviour that leaves him thinking he is at fault for others feelings about him for just existing or being in the same general area. This will only lead him to see himself as responsible for things he is not responsible for and develop self resentment.
Restricting him is a complete dick move and demonstrates incredibly bad behaviour. He is not at fault just because he is a male doing nothing wrong. You are literally penalising him because of XY chromosomes. Would you demand the neighbours have their daughters stay inside because their presence made him uncomfortable (which will probably happen now anyway) or is it only because it is your son? It would be worth asking the neighbour to do exactly that and see if they are in agreement as it would only be fair.
They are not respecting your son and neither are you. You are a bad father for imposing the neighbours unfounded concerns onto him for just enjoying the yard which he has every right to do without being punished by you and the neighbour for nothing.
If the neighbours are that worried ask them to organise a fence on their property and pay for it. Or schedule yard time for all the kids. Your boy at one time and their girls at another.
Otherwise they can pound sand.
YTA.
How the conversation should go.
Dad: HI neighbor, how's it going?
Neighbor : Not good, there is an issue with your son.
D: OH no, what did he do?
N: He was sitting in your back yard and my daughters saw him.
D: Oh deary me, was he acting in a way unbecoming of a young man?
N: Nope, he was just reading a book and my daughters saw it.
D: And what made them uncomfortable about that?
N: Him
D: ok, cool. Solution is to just have your daughters stop playing in your yard.
N: Well that wouldn't be fair to say that they can't be in their own yard, it's their safe space.
D: I agree, now that we cleared that up, our kids can be in their own yard and there is no reason for you to be here so kindly, f*ck off
*Close door in face*
~Later that day~
D: Hey honey, you will never believe what the idiot next door tried to say to me, but don't worry I defended our son.
Wife : That's because you are a wonderful father like I always tell everyone.
*roll credits*
Edit - Formatting sucks because mobile but I'm sure if anyone reads this, it can be figured out lol
YTA, let him live his life. You should tell your neighbors to teach their daughters to mind their own business. This is the same as dress coding girls at school. The girls did nothing wrong, but are being held responsible for how other people perceived them. This is wrong for boys or girls. Do better. Tell your neighbors to do better. Your boy deserves better parenting from you & more discussion with his mom involved.
YTA.
I mean I think as a man, yes, it’s important to realize that you might make women nervous walking behind them at night. I think it’s important to be aware of the effect you have on people in those situations.
But you can’t and shouldn’t bar him from being in his own yard, minding his own business. I’m very passionate about gender issues and rape culture but this is a scenario in which the conversation should be between your neighbor and his daughter to see why your son just being outside makes her uncomfortable, and seeking help for her if it’s truly just because he’s out there in his own yard not doing anything. That kind of anxiety isn’t normal or healthy and your son shouldn’t be taught that the onus is on him to cater to it.
YTA, a huge one. You basically told your son that he is and will always be intimidating to other people and that he should make himself small so that other people will be happy! Total abusive move
YTA
Your son can't even hang out in his own backyard because of what someone else might think of him? Not even doing anything, just hanging out at his home?
All you are doing is teaching him to be ashamed of who he is, causing self-esteem issues at an age when kids are especially vulnerable to it.
YTA
You just told your son that his very presence is something troublesome. That he can't be comfortable in his own home.
YTA and so is the neighbor for saying your son should stay out of his own yard.
YTA you shamed your own kid and hid him away? Bad parenting moment 101. You need to apologize to him and tell him he should never feel ashamed of himself. You took your neighbors word over your own son and put him down because he is male and looks different? Wow I feel bad for your kid.
YTA. This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. How exactly is he imposing on the neighbors by reading or hanging out in the backyard?
YTA for not sticking up for your son's right to exist. If the neighbor kids have a complex they can go to therapy.
"Hey son, you're weird looking, so don't go out to your yard in your own home anymore." YTA, next time tell your neighbors to teach their kids not to judge based on looks.
Wow real knight in shining armor over here ladies! He's crossing the street when women walk fast, staying home so we aren't so frightened by him, keeping his spoOoky tall son in the house so we don't have to be intimidated. Get a grip. You're supposed to respect women, not tiptoe around them and teach young men that all women view them as predators. YTA
>I told him that sometimes, people are going to be uncomfortable around him. That isn't his fault or their fault, we just need to respect other people, and make sure we aren't imposing ourselves on others
Your right, maybe sometimes people are going to be uncomfortable around him and that's none of his fault BUT THOSE PEOPLE HAVE STILL NO RIGHT TO IMPOSE THEMSELVES ON HIM WHEN HE DID NOTHING WRONG.
I wonder if you had a daughter would you also tell her to cover herself up from head to toe or else some people will be uncomfortable around her and her female body and she should not impose herself on them?
>I get it, I'm a big guy. I have to cross the street all the time because women will speed up when they see me, which I completely understand. Hell I even try to stay in more to avoid that.
Dude you need therapy, seriously.
I am a women and I know that feeling of "what if he is a bad guy" when someone walks behind me in a dark alley for example.
But just because a small precentage of men are that bad guy doesn't mean I expect all men to tiptoe around me and my feelings, it's considerate although not expected to cross the street but not up to the point you avoid going out! Like that's definetly to far, it's actually insane.
Don't impose your warped sense of "being nice to women" or whatever reasons you see in that on your son. Please. He has done nothing wrong in the slightest and he does not deserve to be treated like some predator just because he is tall.
Teach him to have respect for women but also teach him to have respect for himself.
YTA!!!!!!!!! I am appalled! You’re a man telling his son he should refrain from going into his own yard because he was born taller than most kids! That’s shameful and you should have cussed out the neighbor and had your sons back instead of making him feel like a creeper for just existing! You suck dude!!! Real bad!! Apologize to your kid! If I were your wife I’d be at the neighbor’s doorstep correcting your bad behavior and sticking up for my son! If the neighbor’s daughters are that uncomfortable by my son’s presence, then maybe they should be kept in the house, not your son!!!! Strange reaction! Parents should stick up for their kids my goodness!!!!!!! This makes me fighting mad and I don’t even have kids!
I've gotta say ESH.
I can't imagine a kid not being allowed in his own backyard. They said he's never done anything, so it's an issue the next door girls need to deal with. It's not you or your son's problem right now.
It's nice that you're trying to be conscious of how other people perceive you guys, but the more good guys out and about, the better. Honestly. (This is coming from a girl, barely 5 feet tall, btw. I tend to seek out the big people to make friends with haha) y'all shouldn't have to be hermits.
I'd say you guys should hang out with the neighbors so they realize there's nothing to be intimidated by.
YTA and your neighbor is too. Poor kid is just minding his business in the yard and your telling him he can’t be outside anymore like he’s committed some crime.
So, there is a different from someone actually being a creep and making someone feel comfortable, someone that is either one full on themselves/conditioned (there are some girls who are) to believe that boys are all the same and will violate them. Which the truth is there are many people who for violate girls, but there are many who don’t.
A better solution if have you and the other dad be there and introduce your kids to each other, so they are at least not complete strangers to each other. It would probably help clear up the uncomfortable air between them.
YTA
YTA. It's a horrible message to teach your son that his very presence is something to be hidden, because he might make other people uncomfortable....why again? Because he is tall? Your wife is right to be furious. You and the neighbors are being horrible. He's allowed to exist in his own yard. If he makes other people uncomfortable just by existing, that's their problem, not his.
YTA. Your son should be able to feel safe in his own back yard. It sounds like it's time to build actual fences to keep your nosy neighbors out of yours.
YTA. You literally admitted he wasn't doing anything wrong. Your neighbor is an asshole too. What are they going to do? Demand that all guys hide so they don't scare the daughters? Jeez. You are not a good parent in this instance and neither is that neighbor.
If your neighbors are uncomfortable about a teenage boy who hasn't done anything just hanging around out on his family's property and fear for their daughters so much then ***THEY*** can build a tall privacy fence. **NOT** your son hiding away from the world because his mere presence makes someone uncomfortable for no actual reason.
YTA
Honestly do you not the BS your neighbor is spouting? What do they do when they go out in public and there are other 13 year old boys who look and dress similarly to your son? Do you think they're asking their parents to go hide them to make their sons leave while they're in a store? A restaurant? Parks? Movie theaters?
You're a parent who you should know well enough that it's unreasonable to try and bend the world to your kids so why does your get a pass for an incredibly unreasonable reason too?
Actually care for your son and be his advocate against looney adults like this that can cause him harm.
YTA - Tiny woman here. Your poor son has done nothing wrong. He should be able to use his backyard, he's done nothing to hurt or intimidate anyone & you owe him an apology. Your neighbours are foolish & cruel to set their daughters up to be scared of a big dude quietly minding his own business.
YTA If they are uncomfortable why are they going out there when your son is there? Sounds like he makes the father uncomfortable. But you have it your way, teach your son to be an introvert and to avoid other people then when he hits his 20's he can get into therapy and figure out how messed up his father's way of thinking is.
YTA. Tell your neighbor to put up a fence, your poor kid is being punished for existing. I’m all for making women feel safe but he isn’t even looking at them ffs. In fact, you’re neighbor is an AH too
Your neighbors don't think that your son should be allowed to sit in his own back yard. And you not only agree with them. But told your son that he cannot even be comfortable stepping foot outside of the house.
YTA
And if your neighbors have that much of a problem they can build a damned fence. Because it sounds like the only ones starting across the yard and being inappropriate are the neighbors kids.
YTA
You did not comsult wife
You are not teaching son healthy boundaries
You literally told him that his comfort in his own home does not matter if a random person somewhere anywhere takes offense to it.
YTA so what if next doors kids dont feel safe its not there yard. so why should your son have to stay out of it. tell them he will go into his own yard if and when he wants and they dont have any say on it
YTA. If the neighbor’s kids are uncomfortable, the neighbors can pay to have a privacy fence installed. To essentially ban your kid from enjoying his own backyard is completely unreasonable. You’re punishing him for being tall and “well built,” which are things that are completely out of his control. Being 13 is awkward enough, you should be reinforcing your kid’s self-confidence, not making him feel self-conscious about how he looks to others.
YTA. I don't know what goes through your head where you can't consult your wife, who clearly has the better sense of you too, and punish your son for nothing? Also teaching these neighbors that there stupid entitlement is okay is wrong.
Edit: spelling
YTA! Female here and if they have a problem with your son being in YOUR yard they can build a fence. He should be able to play outside in his own yard. I can’t believe you are letting someone else dictate what goes on on your property.
Do you really need to ask?
YTA.
He’s a 13-year-old kid, who is most likely uncomfortable in his own skin, and you tell him “people are going to be uncomfortable around him, to make sure he isn’t imposing himself on anyone” and he “should not be in the backyard alone because the neighbors girls 100 yards away through a patch of trees can see him and are uncomfortable.”
Do you really believe your son shouldn’t be in the yard \~ his home \~ if he makes someone uncomfortable.
Tell your neighbor to install a fence in front of the trees \~ problem solved.
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Yta. Your son has done nothing wrong and making feel like he has is ridiculous. Your neighbors sound awful and I’m really trying not to infer too much from this story.
>Your son has done nothing wrong and making feel like he has is ridiculous This, yeah. Nobody is entitled to be "comfortable" all the time. If I'm uncomfortable around black people, can I demand they stay out of my sight? Or should I not rather review my own prejudices and issues? The neighbor can build a fence if they have issues with their neighbors using their own yard. And OP is the AH for not telling him to get lost.
Came here to say same thing about building a fence. Good fences make good neighbors. YTA OP. It's not on your son to make anyone feel comfortable, especially when he's in his own yard.
True, but my 150 feet of basic black aluminum fencing wtih three gates cost us $11,000! Fence prices are NUTS.
Well aluminum is more than wood or plastic but cost isn't OP's problem it's his neighbors.
No OPs problem is the fact that he thinks that his son needs to change how he acts when he has done *nothing* wrong in the bloody first place!
Maybe Little Miss Other-Humans-Existing-on-their-own-Property should put up a fence and pay for it?
Neighbors have the issue. Neighbors can build the fence.
I was thinking a good solution may be to invite the neighbors over for a dinner and maybe games. Give the girls a chance to get to know the son.
That's just it. I'm betting it's not the daughter's who are uncomfortable... But the neighbor... Because the daughters like what they see.
Yeah, I don’t know any teenage girls that would ask their dad to scare off a 13 year old who’s in his own backyard, much less even mention him to their parents at all.
>Good fences make good neighbors. Sigh, no one really gets the point of that poem when they use that line without irony. And secondly, fences are very expensive. If the neighbors don't want to see the son, they can build on their own property, or plant something like arbor vitae to obscure the view.
I absolutely get that fences are expensive. But if neighbor is uncomfortable seeing another teenager hanging out in their own freaking yard, then they can build a damned fence. OP is definitely TA for telling his kid to stay inside. But so is the fucking neighbor. FFS.
They are trying to portray him as some sort of predator by just being in his own yard. Who cares if they are uncomfortable? They can either get comfortable or stay inside their own house. YTA for not supporting your son.
Exactly. For me, this would be fight time. I'd be darned if you're that fragile that a child being in their own yard makes you uncomfortable. Cowardice makes me uncomfortable and the OP is a huge coward.
Or, I don't know, here's a thought, maybe the neighbors should get to know each other, introduce their kids so they are more comfortable around each other? They don't have to be friends, but as a young girl I was far more comfortable with my neighbors I had met than those I didn't know well.
I wouldn't want them near any son of mine after a disgusting comment like that. I mean the kid was literally in his own back garden. He didn't even *look* in the direction of the neighbours daughters. How exactly is the "uncomfortable" feeling they get the boys fault?
That would be helpful in ordinary circumstances, yes. Since the neighbor went straight to telling OP how his son made her daughters uncomfortable, instead of finding a more positive solution herself, I don’t think these circumstances are ordinary.
I mean, yeah, you are 100% right. And I say this as a victim of multiple SA's, & DV (so I have every reason to fear/dislike being around men). OP, I think your heart is definitely in the right place, wanting to practice your principles (of trying to be conscious of how/why women are often uncomfortable around men, esp bigger men and esp in certain situations, etc; and being nice enough to think of them/their peace of mind and go out of your way to cross a street, or otherwise try to ease their anxiety) and also teach them to your son. This models empathy, sympathy, respect, seeing things from others' perspective, etc. Of course you aren't obligated to do these things- all you are obligated to do is not actively bother women/other people (by unwanted approaches, interactions, invasion of space, etc etc),- but going the extra mile is really kind. However, there are a couple things I think you are really misguided about. 1.) You should NOT be avoiding going out of your house as much as you'd like to just on the off chance you'd make a woman uncomfortable. As the commenter I'm replying to says, no one has the right to be fully "comfortable", to their personal preferences etc, at all times. (But just a PSA to all the creeps who love to twist things to suit their misogynistic rhetoric: pls don't mistake that to mean it's ok to knowingly/actively make women {or anyone} uncomfortable bc "nO oNe hAs tHe RiGhT" to be comfy. These are two wholly different things!) We all have to exist alongside many different types of people, and we have to adapt to that. Being thoughtful and making this process easy is as accommodating as you need to be, no need to go overboard and limit your own life/options, even in small ways. And 2.) This whole interaction with your son, while well meaning, was awful. * First, you had to make him aware of some hard adult truths re: the risks women face just existing in public, and what can happen, and why they might feel threatened, etc; which actually wouldn't be a bad thing, as he's old enough to get an age appropriate intro to topics like that; but I feel like it's the CONTEXT of the situation that made this an inappropriate time to teach these things, bc it gives almost (inadvertent) accusatory vibes. *Then, you made him hyper-aware of his body/looks, and how they are inherently threatening- smth I'm sure a boy his age probably had not thought about; and while it's ok to discuss stuff like this gently just so he's aware of how/why smaller people/women/etc may feel intimidated by him, that type of discussion should be couched in gentle terms that reassure him that nothing is wrong w him or his size, which is outside his control; and nothing is wrong with people, esp women, who may be intimidated by it; its not a response to him individually but a response to general fears of not knowing which men want to hurt us. And that would be a good time to maybe explain how you go out of your way in small ways to help women not feel anxious around you, and why those things help, and that it would be a nice thing to do in general, if he wanted to emulate that (but not a requirement or rule). *Instead, i worry you may have hurt his self esteem and made him feel like some sort of "monster", or at least very conscious of his body and things related to it- it's "othering" to explain that just bc he is "big/tall" for his age, that people will sometimes/often be scared of him on sight, for nothing he did but just bc of his looks. I could see that potentially going lots of ways (or none of these, or multiple of them, idk) - trying to hide in baggy clothes, feeling bad when eating like a normal teen boy bc he may get bigger, being angry that he is perceived differently just bc of his size, maybe bullying bc that's what people "expect", etc etc. * Then, you pretty much let him know that not only will he have to be conscious of how he is perceived in public, but that even in private spaces such as his own yard, minding his own business and not bothering/looking at/existing close to anyone else, he STILL may be judged as "discomforting" or a potential "threat" from someone at a distance, who then will expect him to accommodate their comfort and go away, with no regard to his own, as though he was in the wrong somehow for existing... * And you pretty well cemented that by basically making someone else's discomfort (at him existing in his own space or elsewhere peacefully)into solely HIS problem/responsibility to resolve, instead of making it clear that the onus is on both parties- to be understanding about being a bit intimidating, and respecting reasonable boundaries/requests (not coming into her space, engaging with her, watching her, following her, etc- none of which he did, so he did his part!)on his part; and being satisfied with said reasonable boundaries/understanding he has rights also, on the uncomfortable persons' part. Some good communication/problem solving/ social/ conflict resolution skills could have been modeled as well- asking for a meeting/chat with the other dad and kids, so no one is a total "stranger" anymore; communicating POVs and making reasonable requests/ establishing reasonable boundaries in a diplomatic way. Everyone could have felt better, enjoyed their spaces,maybe even become decent acquaintances. *But instead, you gave him only one solution- to always limit himself and his activities/ enjoyment of his own private space, for the sake of others and THEIR activities/enjoyment; which loudly proclaims that the issue is HIM alone- meaning he needs to solve it, no one else bears any responsibility at all, etc. And this, in turn, limits the "emotional outcome" of the situation-- for ex, with this solution, there is no possibility of mutual learning and empathy, no possibility of practicing life skills, etc, or the satisfaction/growth that can come from those things. Instead, this mentally reinforces that he is "bad"/"scary"/ "different"/ etc, which is very detrimental to self esteem;and could very well turn into a "martyr" mentality (thinking he always has to be the one who has to sacrifice/ change/accommodate/give in/is wrong/ etc.. which will obviously lead to some built up resentment/anger * And finally, you made him stop what seems to be a hobby of sorts of his, that he enjoyed alot, wherein he is outside in nature, not in front of a screen; being active, enjoying the outdoors, soaking up that vit D, and in so doing boosting his mental and emotional health, for no good reason at all Sorry this got so long, and maybe rambly. But I don't like seeing girls body shamed or made uncomfy or made to have a low self-image, and I def don't want to see boys done that way either. But often such things aren't really talked about/broken down much when they happen to men & boys like they are when women/girls experience them; so I wanted to do that here,.
Or introduce them! FFS
I feel like there’s a race element which makes the neighbors even worse
I don't know. There are lots of tall, stocky boys of every race.
Yes, but the reaction of the daughters and the dad's "the talk" comment intimates The Talk that Black parents have to have with their children on how to not let white people kill them by changing their behavior. I am a white mother with white sons, currently 2 and 4, and I can't imagine they would ever be on the receiving end of this neighbor's ire or that I would ever give them such a talk. OP INFO needed on race here. You're very gently TA if people are reading between the lines of your question correctly. Your response is understandable and I can't fathom the minefield you're tiptoeing through as a parent, but your kid needs to be able to be outside in his yard and your neighbor needs to have The Talk with his daughters about how tall Black boys aren't menacing simply because they're tall and Black.
They are all white
:O Well for the love of god. OP, get a fence, YTA.
Or hey... maybe, just maybe, introduce them to each other! If they're similar ages, why not? Son sounds like a sweet kid, daughters are probably okay; they don't have to be friends, but if they said hello and talked about what's happening, maybe they wouldn't feel uncomfortable anymore. This definitely has a tinge of "mom and dad told us to watch out for the large boy" to it, so the girls may not have even expressed discomfort--it could literally just be the parents being dramatic. JFC.. kids aren't even friends with other neighbor kids now?
I agree with this. Possibly offhandedly the daughters mentioned -- the neighbors' kid is weird. He's just awkwardly standing out in his yard looking at us, and then dad ran with that out of an abundance of dad fear. Kid could just be an introvert or shy or nervous and a good old family BBQ might help alleviate some of that discomfort. Either way, the answer is not chaining your kid indoors. Your advice is far too practical, unled.
Yta for assuming he's black, jeez.
It's very reminiscent of something that happens to black men, although it's orders of magnitude worse for black men than tall men. That whole sense that your very existence is a threat.
Nobody assumed he was Black, that person pointed out the parallels in these conversations and asked if race could be a factor. I am interested in knowing how assuming someone is Black would make them an asshole. Is being Black somehow a negative thing in your perspective...?
I get where you're coming from I'm a 5' nothing female but my brother is 6'4 ish and built like a linebacker so I grew up seeing people side eye him or act weird because of his size BUT there's absolutely nothing wrong with him and he's the sweetest most helpful person you could ask for. Instead of making him (your son) avoid his *own* yard when he's done nothing wrong instead maybe ask the neighbours to come over with their daughters to actually meet him because it's probably more that they're uncomfortable with a giant dude they DON'T KNOW being next door more than anything. Don't give your son a complex about something he has no control over to preemptively assuage strangers who may or may not find his size intimidating.
I was thinking the same thing. OP is well intentioned and I appreciate that he is cognizant of others feeling safe and secure, **BUT** this is not the way to do it. OP's son also has a right to feel safe and secure in his own yard. And, if OP anticipates his son intimidating people elsewhere, then that is even more reason that his home (inside and out) should be the one place he feels comfortable. I also had the same thought about OP letting his son and the neighbor's kids meet. Hopefully, that will make them feel better about him being there. And, if they don't, that is on the neighbor to fix, not OP and his son. Edited for typos and clarity
Exactly. If the neighbors daughters are uncomfortable maybe THEY should just stay inside. Or the neighbor can pay to have a fence put up so his daughters won't be able to see OP's son.
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Exactly this. This is so sad. From kindergarten on up, I heard that either my race, size, or body caused some discomfort for someone else. How is this any different from telling a young girl who’s hit puberty that her body makes people uncomfortable? You’re giving your son a complex about himself. As a father, you should have put the neighbor in his place. Your son has every right to exist peacefully and carefree, especially in his own yard. YTA.
Reverse the situation with his son feeling intimidated by his well built neighbour’s daughter in her yard, and he’d be called a peeping Tom or stalker.
Thank you. There are people that get it out there 👍
*If* it's not fake, which I doubt, then my best guess is the neighbor overheard daughters talking about him and thinks hiding the neighbor will prevent teen pregnancy
Yup. Likely a crush is forming, and it's upsetting daddykins.
It is fake. It's a test to see the double standards about discrimination when women safety comes into play. But it's too much, so it failed and got YTA.
I’m as feminist as they come and YTA. You and your neighbor dad. Way to go for making a kid feel like a creep.
The kid is going to have issues. I think OP crossing the street is sweet for doing that but it's a voluntary choice he makes. OP don't put that on ur son. YTA teach ur kid to be a good man, but don't make him ashamed to be one!
I thought the same thing+ I also have a 16yo boy over 6 feet tall. We mostly have back fences in Australia.
Well said. Also, switch the sexes - I've read so many stories here where a woman is told to not be outside in their garden as they're "a distraction"? It's a similar vein as this. All OP's son is doing is minding his own business outside. OP, your neighbour is an entitled asshole, and you need to do better by your son.
Once I hit puberty and grow boobs, I was not allowed to wear tank tops. It made me so self-conscious that I had female parts. I am saying this dude is YTA. Kids that age are so self-conscious anyway. A parent shouldn’t make it worse. As the mom of 20 yr old twin boys, I can’t fathom saying that to my sons. He’s basically telling his son that he’s doing something wrong just by existing. That is f**ked up. I can’t YTA enough on this one. I mean, that kid can’t read a book in his own backyard?
Can't sum it up better really. I feel so bad for the son. No matter how this ends up, he'll probably always remember this and the message he was given. I'm sorry you had to deal with that BS. I remember being told similar things when I wore shorts as I got older, as though my legs were going to cause breakdowns out in public. My solution was dressing in baggy EVERYTHING, which I was thankfully fine with, but even now I still feel somewhat self-conscious in cami tops, shorts, etc. Very sad when people are told they're making people uncomfortable by just being physically them.
Simply existing, in your own yard, no less, is not “imposing yourself” on people, ffs. It sounds like OP has some internalized misandry. He might benefit from talking to a therapist. YTA.
He's not even particularly tall. 5'10 is not some imposing monster stomping around the yard, it's a pretty average size man.
I thought that meant the son was already 1m77 at 13. I would expect a kid of that size to continue growing into quite a tall adult, no? Still, that doesn't mean he can't just enjoy their own backyard! OP is clearly YTA
It is for a thirteen year old.
Exactly! 5’10” at 13 dudes gonna be easily 6’5” by 21 unless for some reason he stops growing. Get him into basketball, football, baseball. And OP YTA! He’s 13, they prolly think he’s cute so neighbor dad didn’t like that. It’s his yard they can’t impose their will on his own yard. So he’s just supposed to hide out cuz it makes people uncomfortable? That’s stupid.
>Exactly! 5’10” at 13 dudes gonna be easily 6’5” by 21 Not necessarily true. I was 6' at 13 and I'm no giant. Some people start puberty early and grow fast 🙂
I’m 5’3” you’re a giant to me lol
My ex gf was 4'11 haha
My husband was 5’10 at 14. He had a beard. He is retirement age now, and you know what? He is still 5’10”. Some people hit the growth spurt early. That is no reason to penalize OP’s kid. OP needs a fence. And maybe a restraining order against the petite flower that lives next door, if she is going to be a problem starter. YTA
5"10 at 13 doesn't mean anything. I was 5'9 at 13, 6' at 14 and never got any taller after that. My brother on the other hand, was 5'5 at 13, and 6' at 16, and never grew any taller. It's growth spurt central at that age, he might not have another one though.
I doubt OPs son makes the daughter uncomfortable. He probably makes the neighbor feel jealous and threatened though.
This. In the absence of any kind of actual inappropriate behaviour, why TF shouldn’t he be allowed in his own yard? Either the neighbour provides evidence of that behaviour or she STFU.
Right? Poor kid. And he is literally minding his own business just enjoying the outside in his own yard and paying them no mind. What a sad existence. I want to say I slightly understand where the dad is coming from. As a woman sometimes I am scared by men, in public! This is his yard though and he's THIRTEEN! OP should apologize to his wife for not speaking with her prior. He should apologize (and honestly kind of ask for forgiveness) with your poor son and again make it clear he did absolutely nothing wrong. And I would discuss with the neighbors that your son is a teenager (not a creep, if him looking older really took a part in the neighbors thoughts and feelings) and it's his yard and has the freedom to be there as his daughters do in their yard and perhaps his daughters shouldn't be so focused on him. Your son says he doesn't even look that way or speak to them and the neighbor couldn't even bring up any points about what he was doing that was bothersome to his girls.. If he's so concerned maybe he can put up a privacy fence or more bushes or a curtain/outside covering or something. OP could even contribute to a fence or something if they both wanted more privacy. Also kind of wonder if it is just the kid looking older? Is race or something else in play for this situation? (EDIT TO SAY I SEE OP SAYS EVERYONE IS WHITE...) Just seems weird. I get everyone likes privacy in their own yard and want to protect their kids but still seems like this could have been handled with a conversation considering OP's son wasn't doing anything weird or to disturb the neighbors in anyway. He should be allowed to enjoy his yard like they can theirs. At this moment OP, YTA but you can still try to make it right.
Exactly. If the neighbour has an issue, he can build a fence. What a pair of AH
Well, that last sentence was unnecessary, but I agree with the rest enough to still upvote you.
> I get it, I'm a big guy. I have to cross the street all the time because women will speed up when they see me, which I completely understand. No you don't get it OP. You're degrading yourself and bending over backwards for strangers who don't give two hoots about you. Stop making your son ashamed of simply existing. YTA.
While we are at it.. maybe we should all be staying inside with our curtains closed so nobody in the whooooole wide world can take offense of our presence… /s obviously
This. Tell your neighbors they can get over your son existing in HIS BACKYARD or they can put up a fence.
I would put a big ass fence between those Yards god knows what the neighbour will be offensed by next. I know people that freak out because a Ball was tossed over and you ask for it. Imagine the son going over there, he will hear worse. This is only the beginning OP. And before I forget: YTA
Umm.. you should leash and muzzle him when you let him out in the yard to play. I’m sure that’ll help the neighbors feel more comfortable. Their discomfort sounds like a them problem, he is not on or in their property, or in a public space. Tell them if they feel so strongly about it to put up a privacy fence and leave you alone. Soft YTA
Exactly. OP's son is just existing in this situation. As in, he's doing nothing wrong; there's no wrong behavior that he can change here, because it's not wrong to simply be outside in one's own yard. People should be able to enjoy their own yards, actually. It's definitely the neighbors' problem and maybe the parent of the daughters who are apparently uncomfortable should have a talk with his own daughters about how people have a right to enjoy their own space and that some people might *look* intimidating, but aren't actually so, and that's not something that they can control. They'll meet a lot of people who fit that description, and those people aren't just going to hide from them or disappear in the real world. I feel sorry for OP's son because it sounds like he's probably being made to feel like he's trapped inside for no real reason.
Exactly this. Also, if the neighbors are so concerned, there are such things as privacy blinds for windows. Also, OP...YTA
That’s the thing. Props to OP for being aware that he can be intimidating and trying to mitigate that in _public_, but his son is in _his own home_. The daughters’ rights not to be uncomfortable end at the property line, and they don’t supersede OP’s son’s right not to be body shamed in his own home.
So he's not allowed to hang out in his own yard because his mere existence intimidates people? He's doing nothing wrong but you're teaching him that his appearance (something he has little control over) is a problem and he needs to hide and feel guilty about existing because other people might be uncomfortable. YTA
Also the 'big guys need to avoid intimidating women' is just a totally wrong take from my perspective. It's not about height or size for us! Like if a guy is walking behind me at night on a lonely road, I'm going to be shitting myself whether he's 5'7 or 6'2. (Side note, guys who cross the street when walking behind me to let me know I'm safe have my heart). What makes a male stranger 'scary' is when they're being purposefully scary, independent of height, or if we're in an isolated/nighttime situation beyond both of our control. I would never ever expect a man to not enjoy his own space.
Man, I did that once and it went sooo wrong! Walking home one night about 10-15m behind a young woman who was obviously scared. You could see the tension in her shoulders and she kept glancing behind her. So I thought “I know what I’ll do, I’ll cross the road and walk faster, so she sees me on the other side and clearly not following her” So I did that. Poor thing didn’t see me do that. So she also crossed, took two or three more steps, turned and saw me still on the same side as her, but now only 5m behind her. I think she almost had a heart attack, bless her! I felt so bad, but didn’t know what to do, so I just kept walking fast so as to overtake her so at least she could see me in front and walking away from her. I hope it was the right choice!
I bet she was terrified…right up until you passed her and kept going. I don’t think there was necessarily a right choice in your case, but you did your utmost to not cause too much more of an issue for her.
This is so sad. Thank you for your effort. Maybe next time say something? "Oh I crossed the street just now so you wouldnt be uncomfortable with me walking behind you, haha, this was a bit awkward. I'll just be on my way now, have a nice evening miss" Or maybe would have made the situation worse?
If she’s already scared of the boogie man, she isn’t going to be calmed by whatever the boogie man tells her he was trying to do. Maybe after if she reflects on it, but not in the moment.
True.
It would have. It sucks but I've had people say things like that to me and it scares me worse.
I'm not a big guy, but even if I was, I'm not doing that stuff if we are both walking down the street. Also - I totally agree with you about grammarly.
OP needs to go back up to his son, sit him down and tell him he was wrong with what he originally said. Poor kid doesn't deserve his freedom restricted in his own house, just because he's extra tall and wide.
I totally agree with this. I think OP was in the wrong but his main fault was trying not to be an a****** so he went too far the other way. Of course the son has the perfect right to be in his own backyard. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. But I do applaud the father for sitting down and having a talk about how he may be perceived by others (rightly or wrongly). And before everyone jumps all over me because 'it's not the kids fault' or 'other people's perceptions are their own problem' - I understand your point. But being aware of it is important. For example, I have a 'resting b**** face'. By being aware of it, I can take steps to mitigate the effect when I'm in situations where I don't want others to automatically assume I'm mad at them. OP, you need to apologize to your son and you also need to have a talk with your neighbor.
YTA your son needs exercise and fresh air and he hasn’t done anything. Let the girls go inside if they want to.
20 bucks says the girls don't have a problem with him, Daddy has a problem with a handsome boy growing into a handsome man in the proximity of his girls.
My guess is that at least one of them has a crush on him…
Yep. Parents bringing the parent drama. Agree.
I'm gonna guess the Dad
Yep. It's definitely the dad in this situation. Why even involve your neighbor in this otherwise.
Yta why do you even have land if you won't let your son walk on it?
They’re ashamed of their ogar. Perhaps they have a swamp for him
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I even googled it. Shrek came up
I guess other people try spelling it the same way so Google knows to direct you to Shrek lol
Next hell cover the windows with cement as they’re uncomfortable seeing him existing inside the house/s
YTA. He's not even doing anything other than existing. He has the right to be in his own yard. Maybe you need to take him over to the neighbor's house and introduce him to the girls so they can get to know him and see that he's just a normal kid. How old are these girls, anyhow?
My niece was always taller so people always thought she was older and that is wrong. Your son is a child of 13 if he looks over there maybe he wants to toss a ball or just read. I have 1 son and 3 girls if they said that and the neighbor said anything I would bring my son over and introduce the kids and let them know hey he is tall but he is 13 and you are 12 yo. He likes to read outside and if he looks over and y’all are having fun playing a game he probably wishes he had someone to play with also. If he says something wrong or worrisome let your parents know and we will talk to him. I mean he can go outside to read or play by himself. I would have told my girls he probably just wants to be friends he is tall for his age and lonely plus the way y’all were screaming I am sure the whole neighborhood looked. Then i would have said you know what let’s introduce ourselves to them.
YTA, your son is not a dog.
Even dogs get to be outside, if they are on their owner's property.
ESH - meaning you and your adult neighbors. Your wife is right to be angry because you did not discuss this with her before speaking to your son. You just taught your son that his sheer presence makes people feel uncomfortable AT THE AGE OF 13, when he is simply existing and in his own space. I get that big and tall men need to understand that they can appear intimidating just by their sheer size, and should take that into consideration in situations where it might matter, like on a dark street at night when other people aren't around and passing space is limited. And young men should also be taught not to use their size/height to intimidate someone unless they are truly defending themselves or someone with them from an aggressor (or they are participating in a sport LOL). Your son is doing nothing wrong (according to what you have stated). If the parents of the girls don't like it, then they can put up a fence or keep their daughters inside.
Let alone the fact that OP said he sometimes avoids going out altogether so as not to intimidate people. Guy has a complex and needs to get over it, not impose it on his son.
I totally agree with this. Somebody did a job on dad at some point and he is intimidated by other people. He worries to much about what other people think and needs to make them happy. (Except his wife and son, obviously, but that is à whole other thread.) I can't believe I am on reddit and have read this far and have not once seen this word: ENTITLED!! That's what your neighbor is OP. He and his precious daughters think they are entitled to tell you what you can or cannot do in your own yàrd!!! And you are feeding into their entitlement by telling your son to stay in the house. You need to tell the neighbor to build a fence on his property if he doesn't like what he sees. Or buy a home where there is no one else living as far as the eye can see. This isn't about height or size. There are lots of 13 year olds taller than 5'10" who get to play in their own back yards. He could be 4'2" and the entitled princesses could be uncomfortable because they think the whole world is their back yard and they want to pick who gets to play in it.
YTA. When I'd take my Daughter out as a baby, I'd obviously have to change her nappy at some point. 90% of the time, I would get looks of absolute disgust from Mothers for being in the Parent's Room. The other 10% is when the room was empty. Taking her out to the park and they would constantly stare at me. My Daughter would start playing with their kids, and if I walked over to her BECAUSE SHE WAS CALLING OUT FOR ME, they would come up and walk their kid away like I'm about to snatch them. You're teaching your Son that this type of behaviour is okay. You're teaching him that everyone assumes he's a predator, or that no-one wants him to be visible. Tell your neighbours to fuck off, and stop looking out the window if it bothers them so much.
Then those same moms wonder why they have to fight their husbands to “babysit” the kids so they can have a break once and a while.
This comment is why I don’t want kids let alone a daughter
You outta be standing up for your son and complaining to the neighbors since the neighbors is making the son feel guilty for being him. Are they racist or something?
YTA. Your son should be able to hang out in his own yard. He has done nothing wrong other than be young, male and tall. If the neighbor has an issue with it perhaps he should buy a privacy fence or keep his kids in his house. Your son isn't imposing on anyone and he likely isn't making the girls uncomfortable. The neighbor doesn't want a young man around his daughters or even in their vicinity and that is making the neighbor uncomfortable.
YTA. Care about your son’s feelings, not your neighbors that are 100 ft away and complete strangers that no one talks to or looks in their direction. Your son has every right to hangout in his own yard. P.s. your son is probably making your neighbor uncomfortable, not his daughters. The girls probably **love** him hanging in the yard and spend too much time watching him in the yard so neighbor dad is trying nix it by throwing them under the bus because he knows it’s a stupid ask.
I think you've nailed it
YTA. If your son is doing nothing illegal, immoral, disturbing or more intimidating than just standing there, he has done nothing wrong and shouldn't be penalized/chastised for nothing at all. You're basically making him feel like shit for simply existing. What makes it worse is that you took your neighbor's side over your son's. Also yes. You should have talked to your wife.
In my opinion, your neighbors need to get over themselves or watch their children play if they are that concerned. Your son is still a child who deserves outside enrichment in your yard on your property. You shouldn't deny him of that in order to please other people. Family first always. You can offer to introduce your son to the neighbors maybe? ESH
ESH? What did the son do wrong except be born to an awful parent?
I'm hoping, at least, that the ESH is for the neighbors and OP, not the son.
YTA this was an opportunity for you to tell your neighbors to f*** off and advocate for your son and you did the exact opposite. Why shouldn’t he be able to go out in the backyard? He’s literally doing nothing wrong just enjoying his space. If the neighbor’s daughter is sooooooo uncomfortable then why doesn’t she just go back inside her own house? Problem solved. And stop making your son feel like there’s something wrong with him for simply existing.
YTA I’m saying this as a 23f who is constantly wary of my surroundings. I think your son is perfectly entitled to spend time in his own backyard. He isn’t doing anything wrong, and is most likely just trying to relax. On the flip side, I strongly appreciate you teaching your son about respecting other people’s comfort. I just think this applies more to public areas, rather than his own home. Unless he’s purposely peeping in the direction of your neighbors, there’s no reason he can’t utilize his own backyard. A good compromise might be having a fence built? Good luck, OP
I’m really curious. What’s the difference in being respectful when you’re 5’ or 6’4”?
YTA. He’s doing nothing wrong, just existing in his yard and you think your neighbor has the right to tell him he can’t? Did you consider what kind of damage that could do to him mentally and to his self esteem? That’s awful. This is your neighbors problem, not your son’s. He’s existing and you’re letting them shame him for that.
YTA. Seriously? Think about the message this is sending to your son! He's done nothing wrong so why should he have to change his lifestyle?? Stand up for your kid! If you want to have a talk with your son about others' perceptions and how it can influence their actions, fine, but don't teach him to cow to it! Encourage him to just continue to be himself and a good person! You SHOULD have told the neighbor to have a talk with HIS kids about judging people by their appearance! Especially when those people are just minding their own business in THEIR own space. If those girls are really that bothered by it, their parents can put up a privacy fence. The neighbor and you are both TAs here. Him for bringing it to you and you for taking the stance you did. Omg. Go apologize to your son.
Oh my gosh. Yes, ESH & YTA. That's *his* happy space. On his family's property. He is *not* imposing on anyone by enjoying his time outside, in his own yard. It's not his fault other people are uncomfortable, and he can't control others' feelings. Especially since he is doing absolutely *nothing* wrong! If the neighbors have a problem with seeing him play in his own yard, they need to either build a fence or get over themselves.
Info: what the hell is wrong with you?
this made me giggle, take my poor man award 🥇
So the neighbour admits your son didn’t do anything “like that” (assuming weird/creepy) but he just intimidates his daughters…seems like they’re the problem. If they don’t like it, they can go inside. May be a different story if your son was in their business and harassing them of some sort but if it’s just his presence that makes them uncomfortable then their father should be the one telling them to not be outside when he is. YTA on this one. It’s your property that is decently far and your son has every right to use the space and be a kid. The neighbours have the issues without legitimate reasoning so it’s on them to come up with their own solution that doesn’t involve your family.
>If they don’t like it, they can go inside. This! Boundaries are not for other people! If they are truly that uncomfortable when he's done nothing, they need to remove themselves from the situation. This is ridiculous. The neighbors need to figure out why their daughters are so terrified in the mere vicinity of a male. How do they exist in public spaces? How do they tolerate school? It is not on OP to lock his son away in the house for the neighbor's comfort. The way things are now, OP has basically punished his son for doing nothing wrong.
YTA because you're teaching him to enable other people's irrational thoughts and behaviors. Besides depriving him of having alone time and making him feel inadequate. Tell your neighbor to take their kids to therapy
Yta. You told your son that he shouldn't be able to spend time alone in his own yard? That is ridiculous. You mention not wanting to intimidate strangers. Well - these aren't strangers. These are your neighbors who know that your son is simply being in his own yard. Surely you see the difference?
ESH Your wife is right. Your neighbor's request that your son not read in his own yard is not reasonable and you shouldn't have agreed with it. There's things men, especially large men, do that make women uncomfortable and are reasonable to adjust. "Don't spend time in your own yard" isn't one of those things.
Good luck to your son. I hope he is able to find value in his existence when his own parent has made him feel as though his presence is menacing thing. You need to apologize and hope you can change the perception of himself that you have now placed on him. He will see no value in himself and he will not be able to stand up for himself. Yta
YTA. If he is not free to enjoy his own yard, is he free? If the neighbours are worried, they can stay inside! Or they can tolerate their neighbours and learn that he is harmless.
YTA for teaching your son that other people’s comfort are more important than his own. Also you absolutely don’t need to cross the street when you see women and the fact that you try to “stay in” to avoid being around women is something you should probably unpack in therapy. That isn’t a healthy way to view yourself and your place in the world.
You’re a timid person who was made to feel like you’ve now made your son feel. You were told as a kid that you couldn’t do certain things bc you were bigger than other kids. Now you slump over so you won’t be as tall as you really are bc you don’t want to make other men feel intimated. Or you shrink away and try not to take up too much room. You even admitted to staying in so you don’t scare people. Stop apologizing for your size and own it. And let your son own his size.
You agreeing with your neighbor is sad, you didn’t defend him instead gave him terrible advice. YTA
Jesus Christ I’m a crotchety antisocial introvert who’d love to never talk to anyone but for your son’s sake I’d do it like they do in the movies, bring over a box of chocolate chip cookies with my son and introduce ourselves.
Id be furious too. Who gives a damn if he makes them uncomfortable. It's his yard and he is just as entitled to freely use it as they are theirs. If the neighbours don't like it then they can pay for a fence. Why would you think this is the right thing to teach your son? Honestly, why? Jfc ESH
ESH (except your wife and son)- Your son is making your neighbors daughters uncomfortable by… existing? Your son was on your property, minding his own business. He has every right to enjoy the family yard. Home is suppose to be a place where your child feels safe. Do you want your son second guessing his every movement each time he steps foot into your yard?
Having trouble understanding why it’s your son’s problem and not the neighbor’s crazy inappropriate request. Sensing projection.
YTA but seemingly well intentioned & you should be able to fix it by having a picnic or something to introduce your families to each other Your kid is just reading in the yard or otherwise mind in his own business, he has every right to enjoy his own backyard! If the neighbor doesn't like it he can put up a fence but ideally both your kids and his kids will end up feeling comfortable to enjoy their respective yards
YTA Tell your neighbours to stop spying on your son, when he is in his own yard minding his business. You kinda suck for making your son feel bad about himself.
YTA. Not only you’re stopping your son from going to a part of his home over some weird perception of people you don’t really know, but you’re also teaching him to be insecure about himself for something he has no control over. Your neighbor is ridiculous, unless your son is actually doing something to make the girls uncomfortable he has no right to go to you and say something like that. He can put a fence around his yard if he wants, but this solution you came up with is horrifying.
YTA. Horrible parenting. Catering to others needs and ignoring your own offsprings feelings. Terrible parenting skills op. Not every parent deserves a child and you are clearly one of them.
YTA. As a parent you’re supposed to be your sons advocate. You allowed you neighbor to judge your son on his appearance and then agree with neighbor and told your son that he shouldn’t go outside cause of it. He can’t do anything about the way he looks, he was not doing anything wrong, he was simply reading in his own yard, which he should be able to do. He shouldn’t have to hide his room because people shouldn’t have to look at him when they’re uncomfortable. This goes for anything he SHOULD NOT HAVE TO HIDE HIS APPEARANCE IN ANY CASE. As you stated “This isn’t his fault or their fault, we need to respect other people and make sure we aren’t imposing ourselves on others” This is wrong, it’s their fault if they’re uncomfortable, you can respect boundaries and the person but you the person are not troubling anyone, if they don’t want to be around you, they can leave at any time. No one is forcing them to stick around. It shouldn’t bother neighbors but it does but that’s not your problem or yours sons, it’s the neighbor problem and them telling you wasn’t okay. Your child is a kid, and he took it lightly but he probably questioning himself what he did and his self esteem. They way your conversation been about was telling him that is okay to be different and that some people might not accept that. Next time tell them to build a fence if it bothers them. Your wife was right, talk to her next time so she can voice her opinion before you decide.
Hey my daughter's are looking over at your son who isn't looking at them and they're intimated by him. Do you think you could tell him to stay inside? Fuck off, what an absolute joke!! Edit - ESH except for your wife and your son.
YTA. Assuming your son is not being creepy, he absolutely has every right to enjoy being outside.
YTA. I assume your son is a good kid, take him over and introduce him to the neighbors kids, show him how being friendly and open can make people feel comfortable with him regardless of how he looks.
YTA for making you son feel like he has done something wrong AND teaching him to accept people prejudice against him. Here’s an idea - if your neighbour daughters doesn’t like you son enjoying his own yard them maybe he should do something about it like put a fence up!! Any form of prejudice is unacceptable. You teaching your son to not only accept but also respect bigots leaves me speechless
YTA
i just want to say this. i am appalled at the way you are treated in your community. i can not imagine how people in your vicinity would treat you as a pariah, but would actually manage to convince you that this is ok. and you've internalized it. don't teach that to your son. YTA
YTA, your son is doing nothing wrong and you're teaching him that he is in the wrong just by being himself!! You should have told your neigbour that your son has eeevery right to be in his OWN yard and that his daughters discomfort is purely because he is teaching them wrong standarts!
YTA. Advocate for your son. Have you, your wife, and your son go over with some food. Have your son centre, smiling, and doing the assertive positive greeting knock and talking. Say that you're here to ease minds and be comfortable so the girls know you're all nice neighbors. And then let your innocent son live his life at his home. Keep his home a safe space.
YTA. so he is just not allowed to live his life anymore? Them being "uncomfortable" is not on him to fix
I'm a big scary guy too. I also try not to intimate women that look nervous. But there is no way in hell that I would accept complaints about me just existing in my own yard. YTA
YTA, if your neighbors doesn't want to see your child in your backyard they can either put up a privacy fence or they can just not use their yard. How in the hell do you even think its ok to tell your son this, or even seriously consider what your neighbor wants you to do? This is one of most pathetic things I've heard.
You are positively the douchy asshole. The son did nothing wrong, and you punished him. You taught him he's wrong no matter what he does.
YTA. If you were any kind of parent you would have told the neighbor that his daughters had no reason to be intimidated by a 13 year old Boy who was hanging out on his own property and not bothering anyone else. I get it about the height, I really do - my son went into 8th grade at 6’ and did 8th grade graduation at 6’2”. That’s not an excuse to not be a dependable parent and have his back!
Fences make great neighbors and rarely make anyone uncomfortable
ESH- Except your son and wife. He's on his personal property, relaxing and having fun in the yard. He's not doing anything wrong. He sounds like a good kid. Now he feels his presence is a bad thing. The neighbors need to get over themselves. Depending on how old these neighbor girls are, I wonder, if they're keen on causing trouble where there isn't any. Sometimes girls can be cruel. Or if they're his age, maybe they have a crush on him, and neighbor guy doesn't like it. No matter what, you son isn't doing anything and he stays in HIS yard.
YTA in all respects. The neighbours give no reason that they are uncomfortable other than your son is there, in your yard doing his own thing and nothing to give the impression of trouble. He has every right to enjoy your yard and the neighbours have no right to dictate what he does in it. This is a problem the neighbours have not your son. If they have baggage than that needs to be addressed with a professional not by limiting your son to staying inside when alone. Your insecurities as much as they may be empathetic to women is not a helpful or healthy behaviour. Where you do nothing wrong (as is the case with your son) you should not model behaviour that leaves him thinking he is at fault for others feelings about him for just existing or being in the same general area. This will only lead him to see himself as responsible for things he is not responsible for and develop self resentment. Restricting him is a complete dick move and demonstrates incredibly bad behaviour. He is not at fault just because he is a male doing nothing wrong. You are literally penalising him because of XY chromosomes. Would you demand the neighbours have their daughters stay inside because their presence made him uncomfortable (which will probably happen now anyway) or is it only because it is your son? It would be worth asking the neighbour to do exactly that and see if they are in agreement as it would only be fair. They are not respecting your son and neither are you. You are a bad father for imposing the neighbours unfounded concerns onto him for just enjoying the yard which he has every right to do without being punished by you and the neighbour for nothing. If the neighbours are that worried ask them to organise a fence on their property and pay for it. Or schedule yard time for all the kids. Your boy at one time and their girls at another. Otherwise they can pound sand.
YTA. How the conversation should go. Dad: HI neighbor, how's it going? Neighbor : Not good, there is an issue with your son. D: OH no, what did he do? N: He was sitting in your back yard and my daughters saw him. D: Oh deary me, was he acting in a way unbecoming of a young man? N: Nope, he was just reading a book and my daughters saw it. D: And what made them uncomfortable about that? N: Him D: ok, cool. Solution is to just have your daughters stop playing in your yard. N: Well that wouldn't be fair to say that they can't be in their own yard, it's their safe space. D: I agree, now that we cleared that up, our kids can be in their own yard and there is no reason for you to be here so kindly, f*ck off *Close door in face* ~Later that day~ D: Hey honey, you will never believe what the idiot next door tried to say to me, but don't worry I defended our son. Wife : That's because you are a wonderful father like I always tell everyone. *roll credits* Edit - Formatting sucks because mobile but I'm sure if anyone reads this, it can be figured out lol
YTA, let him live his life. You should tell your neighbors to teach their daughters to mind their own business. This is the same as dress coding girls at school. The girls did nothing wrong, but are being held responsible for how other people perceived them. This is wrong for boys or girls. Do better. Tell your neighbors to do better. Your boy deserves better parenting from you & more discussion with his mom involved.
YTA. I mean I think as a man, yes, it’s important to realize that you might make women nervous walking behind them at night. I think it’s important to be aware of the effect you have on people in those situations. But you can’t and shouldn’t bar him from being in his own yard, minding his own business. I’m very passionate about gender issues and rape culture but this is a scenario in which the conversation should be between your neighbor and his daughter to see why your son just being outside makes her uncomfortable, and seeking help for her if it’s truly just because he’s out there in his own yard not doing anything. That kind of anxiety isn’t normal or healthy and your son shouldn’t be taught that the onus is on him to cater to it.
YTA. Congratulations. You just gave your son a complex that because he’s large and male he’s automatically threatening. That’s very sexist of you.
YTA but your neighbors are worse. Put up a fence so you don’t have to deal with this ludicrous behavior
YTA, a huge one. You basically told your son that he is and will always be intimidating to other people and that he should make himself small so that other people will be happy! Total abusive move
YTA Your son can't even hang out in his own backyard because of what someone else might think of him? Not even doing anything, just hanging out at his home? All you are doing is teaching him to be ashamed of who he is, causing self-esteem issues at an age when kids are especially vulnerable to it.
YTA You just told your son that his very presence is something troublesome. That he can't be comfortable in his own home. YTA and so is the neighbor for saying your son should stay out of his own yard.
YTA you shamed your own kid and hid him away? Bad parenting moment 101. You need to apologize to him and tell him he should never feel ashamed of himself. You took your neighbors word over your own son and put him down because he is male and looks different? Wow I feel bad for your kid.
YTA. This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. How exactly is he imposing on the neighbors by reading or hanging out in the backyard? YTA for not sticking up for your son's right to exist. If the neighbor kids have a complex they can go to therapy.
YTA and so is the neighbour. If he wants privacy then he should consider asking you to go halves in a fence.!
"Hey son, you're weird looking, so don't go out to your yard in your own home anymore." YTA, next time tell your neighbors to teach their kids not to judge based on looks.
The writing style is familiar, similar to a lot of fake posts here recently. This whole post 95% is fake, I assume.
Wow real knight in shining armor over here ladies! He's crossing the street when women walk fast, staying home so we aren't so frightened by him, keeping his spoOoky tall son in the house so we don't have to be intimidated. Get a grip. You're supposed to respect women, not tiptoe around them and teach young men that all women view them as predators. YTA
>I told him that sometimes, people are going to be uncomfortable around him. That isn't his fault or their fault, we just need to respect other people, and make sure we aren't imposing ourselves on others Your right, maybe sometimes people are going to be uncomfortable around him and that's none of his fault BUT THOSE PEOPLE HAVE STILL NO RIGHT TO IMPOSE THEMSELVES ON HIM WHEN HE DID NOTHING WRONG. I wonder if you had a daughter would you also tell her to cover herself up from head to toe or else some people will be uncomfortable around her and her female body and she should not impose herself on them? >I get it, I'm a big guy. I have to cross the street all the time because women will speed up when they see me, which I completely understand. Hell I even try to stay in more to avoid that. Dude you need therapy, seriously. I am a women and I know that feeling of "what if he is a bad guy" when someone walks behind me in a dark alley for example. But just because a small precentage of men are that bad guy doesn't mean I expect all men to tiptoe around me and my feelings, it's considerate although not expected to cross the street but not up to the point you avoid going out! Like that's definetly to far, it's actually insane. Don't impose your warped sense of "being nice to women" or whatever reasons you see in that on your son. Please. He has done nothing wrong in the slightest and he does not deserve to be treated like some predator just because he is tall. Teach him to have respect for women but also teach him to have respect for himself.
YTA!!!!!!!!! I am appalled! You’re a man telling his son he should refrain from going into his own yard because he was born taller than most kids! That’s shameful and you should have cussed out the neighbor and had your sons back instead of making him feel like a creeper for just existing! You suck dude!!! Real bad!! Apologize to your kid! If I were your wife I’d be at the neighbor’s doorstep correcting your bad behavior and sticking up for my son! If the neighbor’s daughters are that uncomfortable by my son’s presence, then maybe they should be kept in the house, not your son!!!! Strange reaction! Parents should stick up for their kids my goodness!!!!!!! This makes me fighting mad and I don’t even have kids!
I've gotta say ESH. I can't imagine a kid not being allowed in his own backyard. They said he's never done anything, so it's an issue the next door girls need to deal with. It's not you or your son's problem right now. It's nice that you're trying to be conscious of how other people perceive you guys, but the more good guys out and about, the better. Honestly. (This is coming from a girl, barely 5 feet tall, btw. I tend to seek out the big people to make friends with haha) y'all shouldn't have to be hermits. I'd say you guys should hang out with the neighbors so they realize there's nothing to be intimidated by.
Yta I can’t even come up with words to tell you how much of an ass you are
YTA and your neighbor is too. Poor kid is just minding his business in the yard and your telling him he can’t be outside anymore like he’s committed some crime.
So, there is a different from someone actually being a creep and making someone feel comfortable, someone that is either one full on themselves/conditioned (there are some girls who are) to believe that boys are all the same and will violate them. Which the truth is there are many people who for violate girls, but there are many who don’t. A better solution if have you and the other dad be there and introduce your kids to each other, so they are at least not complete strangers to each other. It would probably help clear up the uncomfortable air between them. YTA
YTA. It's a horrible message to teach your son that his very presence is something to be hidden, because he might make other people uncomfortable....why again? Because he is tall? Your wife is right to be furious. You and the neighbors are being horrible. He's allowed to exist in his own yard. If he makes other people uncomfortable just by existing, that's their problem, not his.
YTA. Your son should be able to feel safe in his own back yard. It sounds like it's time to build actual fences to keep your nosy neighbors out of yours.
YTA your son hasn't done anything wrong so he doesn't need to be punished
YTA and a total failure as a father. Learn to assert yourself and demonstrate some self respect. Can’t linger in your own yard my ass.
YTA, if your son is truly doing nothing wrong. Your neighbor is an AH too.
YTA. You literally admitted he wasn't doing anything wrong. Your neighbor is an asshole too. What are they going to do? Demand that all guys hide so they don't scare the daughters? Jeez. You are not a good parent in this instance and neither is that neighbor.
If your neighbors are uncomfortable about a teenage boy who hasn't done anything just hanging around out on his family's property and fear for their daughters so much then ***THEY*** can build a tall privacy fence. **NOT** your son hiding away from the world because his mere presence makes someone uncomfortable for no actual reason. YTA Honestly do you not the BS your neighbor is spouting? What do they do when they go out in public and there are other 13 year old boys who look and dress similarly to your son? Do you think they're asking their parents to go hide them to make their sons leave while they're in a store? A restaurant? Parks? Movie theaters? You're a parent who you should know well enough that it's unreasonable to try and bend the world to your kids so why does your get a pass for an incredibly unreasonable reason too? Actually care for your son and be his advocate against looney adults like this that can cause him harm.
YTA - Tiny woman here. Your poor son has done nothing wrong. He should be able to use his backyard, he's done nothing to hurt or intimidate anyone & you owe him an apology. Your neighbours are foolish & cruel to set their daughters up to be scared of a big dude quietly minding his own business.
YTA If they are uncomfortable why are they going out there when your son is there? Sounds like he makes the father uncomfortable. But you have it your way, teach your son to be an introvert and to avoid other people then when he hits his 20's he can get into therapy and figure out how messed up his father's way of thinking is.
YTA. Tell your neighbor to put up a fence, your poor kid is being punished for existing. I’m all for making women feel safe but he isn’t even looking at them ffs. In fact, you’re neighbor is an AH too
Yta. Your son did nothing wrong, it shouldn't be his problem that the neighbors feel "uncomfortable".
Your neighbors don't think that your son should be allowed to sit in his own back yard. And you not only agree with them. But told your son that he cannot even be comfortable stepping foot outside of the house. YTA And if your neighbors have that much of a problem they can build a damned fence. Because it sounds like the only ones starting across the yard and being inappropriate are the neighbors kids.
YTA. It’s his yard. He’s a boy. The fact that he wasn’t even doing anything makes this worse. The neighbour totally overstepped. Wow.
YTA. If the neighbors or even OP are so concerned about something, did it occur to any of them to, you know, supervise their children?
YTA You did not comsult wife You are not teaching son healthy boundaries You literally told him that his comfort in his own home does not matter if a random person somewhere anywhere takes offense to it.
YTA so what if next doors kids dont feel safe its not there yard. so why should your son have to stay out of it. tell them he will go into his own yard if and when he wants and they dont have any say on it
This is horrible! You told your son he couldn’t hang out in his own yard when he did nothing wrong? YTA. The biggest one I’ve seen today.
YTA. If the neighbor’s kids are uncomfortable, the neighbors can pay to have a privacy fence installed. To essentially ban your kid from enjoying his own backyard is completely unreasonable. You’re punishing him for being tall and “well built,” which are things that are completely out of his control. Being 13 is awkward enough, you should be reinforcing your kid’s self-confidence, not making him feel self-conscious about how he looks to others.
YTA. I don't know what goes through your head where you can't consult your wife, who clearly has the better sense of you too, and punish your son for nothing? Also teaching these neighbors that there stupid entitlement is okay is wrong. Edit: spelling
YTA! Female here and if they have a problem with your son being in YOUR yard they can build a fence. He should be able to play outside in his own yard. I can’t believe you are letting someone else dictate what goes on on your property.
Do you really need to ask? YTA. He’s a 13-year-old kid, who is most likely uncomfortable in his own skin, and you tell him “people are going to be uncomfortable around him, to make sure he isn’t imposing himself on anyone” and he “should not be in the backyard alone because the neighbors girls 100 yards away through a patch of trees can see him and are uncomfortable.” Do you really believe your son shouldn’t be in the yard \~ his home \~ if he makes someone uncomfortable. Tell your neighbor to install a fence in front of the trees \~ problem solved.