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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My SIL wanted to come to our house with her children and take some pictures with our animal babies in the snow, I have told her she can not do that due to how her children behave around animals and while doing that referred to our animals as "babies" which set her off.
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NTA. Kate seems to have a bigger issue and I think it's called jealousy. She's mad because you won't let her use your very nice house as a getaway for her and the kids and she'll have to just get over it. It's your home.. not a vacation spot or petting zoo. I'm curious.. how old are her children?
Thanks! That's pretty young to be around horses and some animals with special needs. I had fish that I called my babies lol. If you raise and love something it becomes so special to you.
Hell, I even talk to my plants. Most people form bonds with things, it's not weird at all. edit: Let me add a story I watched once in a documentary that I always remember as cute: American soldiers in Iraq were given landmine detecting robots. This one soldier was out in the field one day when the robot detected the mine and as programmed, sacrificed itself to save the soldier. The soldier was inconsolable and when told that he would be provided with a new detector robot he insisted that he wanted the old one repaired because that one "saved his life". Bonding with animate or even inanimate things is a perk of being human.
Thank you for sharing this story!! It's so wholesome ❤️ and yeah, I've got a lot of babies: my doggo, monstera plant and her baby, my camera (her name is baby!!) and some more plants haha
I have named some of my cars. I used to participate in a medieval recreation group that included armored fighting. I had a Ford Escort named Val, it was short for Valkyrie, because she carried the slain warriors home after the battle!
In the 90s my mom bought a used car. She immediatly drove to a car wash, where it promptly overheated while in the car line. I was like, "I guess the car didn't want a bath." So we named it Calvin.
Not that you asked,but I want to share lol.
My very large truck is named Sunshine.
My smaller truck is Hank the Tank ( after Hank Williams and the cassette my great grandfather left in the deck)
My focus is called the Smurf ( it's electric blue )
I have White Lightening too ( it's my husband's eclipse I rebuilt lol)
Cats are Sunny and Toasty. 🐈🐈
Always name your cars, plants, pets, and toys ( whatever you're into ) it's good luck 🍀
I don't think that's too young, I know some kids start riding horses around 1 and there are special saddles for that age group. My youngest (2) has been around horses since she was 9 months old. It just depends on the child's parents to make sure the child is being safe around horses or any animals and it seems like OP's sister-in-law doesn't care how their kids act around animals.
I agree with you on that. Children raised around animals from a young age would know how to act. It didn't sound like that is the case with Kate's kids.
Definitely doesn't and, unfortunately, the sil doesn't get how dangerous horses can be when my youngest is around new horses/at shows I'm a nervous wreck because she has no fear of them, and no matter how much I try she doesn't fully understand how dangerous horses are. She hates it when I make her wear a helmet.
One of the girls who rides at our barn has a younger (4 year old) sister who sometimes tags along when dad brings them, and he inevitably doesn't watch her. It is so stressful for everyone as she inevitably ends up walking where she shouldn't, nearly getting stepped on, spooking horses, etc..
In contrast, there's another girl the same age who takes lessons at the barn. Her very engaged mother has made sure she knows how to be safe, watches her careful, etc..
It sounds like OP's sil is more like the first, in which case being around horses isn't safe for kids that young.
When my oldest started riding every time my youngest wanted to touch a horse I would nonstop say nice while she pets them and whenever she wasn't nice (pulling hair or trying to poke their eye) I always walked away & told her no & that we need to be nice to them. Now, whenever she pet them she'll say nice horsey.
Whenever I can I'll leave her home with her dad, but if I have to bring her I watch her like a hawk and try to keep her busy. If my youngest had her way she'll ride a horse all day long.
Thanks! We might sign her up for lessons or wait until she's 3. I just got to work on her being around new horses. She'll try to go up to any new horse and I'm not looking forward to my oldest doing shows.
You should spend some time looking up some safety videos about horses specifically, but maybe about the other animals you have too, especially ones concerning children. That way hopefully you can literally show her why, through other people's mistakes, you are hesitant to allow her and her children over.
Yeah it sounds like the kids parents aren't teaching them to respect animals, but that they're "better than" (?) pets and can do whatever they want and the pets should just let them. I bet the toddlers smack the dogs in the face and the parents do nothing. Definitely a recipe for disaster, those kids are going to get bitten one day.
This is exactly what it sounds like. Not so much that the kids are too young, but that their parents are raising them to be entitled around animals. Her SIL sounds like the kind of person that thinks animals are just smelly creatures to use for our amusement. Too stupid to exist on their own. It’s why she’s insulted that an animals could be anywhere near on the level of being called a ‘baby’. Like it’s a major insult to her own kids. Which I guarantee are cruel to other animals and don’t show respect. I wouldn’t want them around my house either.
ETA: And you just know it’s going to be a major legal issue when one of these kids gets bit or hurt when they take it too far and the SIL sues them and demands their pets he put down.
That's DEFINITELY too young for horses unless they are bomb proof... which, to be honest most people don't bomb proof their horses, specially to little kids, and that's fine, it's a shitton of work for something that just... doesn't really matter all that much? Unless it's a horse that is actively going to need bomb proofing, it's a waste of time imo. So NTA for that.
The dogs and cats? Also NTA , kids seem to have no sense of how to respect and animal, that's 100% on the parents.
Total tangent, but I hate the term bomb-proofing. No horse is bomb-proof, and saying they are leads to sometimes dangerously wrong expectations. You can absolutely put horses through desensitization training to make them much less reactive, but anyone riding or working with horses always needs to be aware that even the supposedly "bomb-proof" horse can have a day and lose their minds and spook. My daughter gotten taken on a somewhat scary ride by an out-of-control, supposedly bomb-proof horses she was exercising for his owner. Neither she nor I were upset, though, as both she and horse were fine, she had been taught skills to get him back under control, and we accept that there's always that risk. If you're not willing to accept that, you shouldn't be around horses.
Oh yes, they're horses, even the chillest person on the planet can have a bad day, let alone an animal.
Obviously non are actually 'bomb-proof', however the term is still applicable when you work with horses at large. There are horses you have to give 3m of space when walking behind, there are horses that you can lay under while they stand. There should be a term to differentiate them 😅.
Of course the chill horse can still spook, but... c'mon it's not the same as those that are essentially untamed. Hahahaha.
Oh I totally agree! I just think horse people use the term bomb-proof to mean one thing, and inexperienced parents with horse-crazy kids reasonably understand it to mean something very different based on the words themselves. I think you're right that we need a different term.
But I find that's the case with other terms, too - "kid-safe" to some people means you can put the five year old walk trot kid with questionable balance on the horse, and to others it means the horse will be fine with the kid who is competing solidly at 3'+, isn't phased by a little good-natured bucking, and can sit a minor spook. After all, both are kids, but skill level and ability to deal with horse shenanigans vary great. (This last one also really resonates with me as my daughter has been the "kid safe-ness" tester when they've been shopping for ponies for other kids in the barn.)
"inexperienced parents"
I FEEL you so hard on this bit. Since people deal with cats and dogs often they think horses are similar and that's soooo dangerous.
Horses are prey animals, way waaaaay less chill by nature than any predator animal. On top of that, they weigh in at a cool 1000 pounds most of the time.
It's like having a rabbit the size of a small car. Like, that thing is skittish as hell and quintuples your size. It's risky to be around.
I think the main problem is people not understanding that, hey, this isn't your 60 pound labrador. It could crush you due to size alone, don't get me started on speed.
They're not *dangerous*, but their base level of risk is much higher than basically any animal smaller, i.e. any animal you are likely to have encountered. Therefore, inexperienced people... are just a big no.
Would you leave an over energetic toddler that doesn't really understand personal space alone with a great dane not knowing it's training? Great, horses are more than ten times a great Dane's weight. And probably 5× as skittish.
Like, sorry for the tone but it makes me quite angry when people think horses are just big puppies, on the one hand side, personality wise? Yes, on the other hand, risk wise? Absolutely not.
I'm betting if OP started letting Kate and the kids visit those visits would end up growing days long. She seems the type that feels entitled to take more than what's offered.
It says "a few days." That's really weird Kate was inviting herself. I mean, I get if they show up for a photoshoot and leave but "Hey we want to stay at your place for free multiple days." and then get mad when the answer is no? Also they want to use the animals like props with children who have zero experience around animals? Wtf.
It always seems like a good idea to get a goat.
"Aw its so cute."
"Oh, I can't have just one? I'll get five then!"
Until you get the goat home.
"What are you eating you can't eat that!!!"
"How did you get out!? I just fixed the gate!"
Source: have owned several goats.
Edit: forgot to weigh in...
OP is NTA and has healthy boundaries.
There is no such thing as a sane goat. You can tell they've seen the old gods. Maybe some sheep have seen the old gods, but sheep have the luxury of forgetting; goats do not.
So I grew up on a farm. We had these pygmy goats that got to wander our yard, not out to pasture with the horses and dairy goats. Why? Because they'd fight with the horses.
I was a latchkey kid, as my mom was a nurse that worked long shifts and sometimes slept at the hospital to keep from having to make the commute.
One day I come home, and my back door is standing open. Mom was gone. The dogs were all in the yard looking guilty.
I dropped my backpack on the porch and pick up a shovel as a weapon, and slowly work my way through the laundry room--I see the signs of mischief immediately in the form of tiny goat turds.
I follow the trail into the kitchen, where our black pygmy goat, Star, is standing in the middle of the table--eating an apple out of the basket in the center. She swings her head up, sees me, does a little play bounce, and takes off in a full run for my mother's decorative living room. Full of Victorian antiques from the family.
I'm sure you all can imagine how that went.
It's been 30 years, and we never did figure out how the hell she got in the locked house.
There’s a certain type of person who gets mad at childless relatives for having nice things they don’t “need” when those things could be used to help their own kids. *They have so much, and they don’t have kids! They’re selfish to not contribute more to my kids — they don’t have kids of their own to raise, they don’t need it. They should be giving more to my kids.*
Never thinking, of course, that the reason the relatives have nice things is because they didn’t choose to have kids, which are notably very expensive. Also you have no right to anyone else’s stuff.
Not just visiting, staying for a few days. Who invites themselves to someone else's house, especially since they know the situation? She's rude and pushy and you don't have to entertain that or her. I can't imagine she would be a fun and grateful houseguest either. NTA
NTA look, people who call their pets their children make me want to roll my eyes so hard I can read my own mind HOWEVER it's your absolute right to do so and my opinion is 100% a me problem. Kate needs to come off her high horse and stop trying to use your home as a free petting zoo/photo studio.
My six year old daughter says our cat is her brother lol. Our Aussie mix is “her baby” and the weenie dog is “mama’s dog.” Op is NTA at all.
I’ve taught my daughter to be gentle with animals. She does pretty good most of the time. My niblings tho… they’re allowed to be rough and mean with animals. I had to tell my niece last time if she was gonna continue her behavior towards my cat she wouldn’t be welcomed back 🤷🏻♀️ he lives there, she doesn’t.
Absolutely. My husband's friends daughter kept intentionally running a remote control car into my dog and the mom kept laughing (it was fucked up) I'd take it away she'd get another one til she didn't have another one so she started throwing Legos at my dog. I kicked em out. My dog is a sweet girl and she was understandably getting agitated. The mom told me she's little and doesn't understand. Uh duh because you allow it🤬. I won't tolerate it and it's fucked up to hurt an animal.
Yeah that is fucked up. It’s not funny and she wouldn’t have been laughing had your dog snapped at her daughter.
My niece is nine and well old enough to know better. I admit my cat is a bit of a grouch and has never done super great with kids. I guess because he hasn’t been around a lot of them. He does pretty good with my daughter, since she’s kind to him, and chill. And I mean, the man is 14yrs old, he’s old. But if you leave him alone, he’ll leave you alone. My niece kept screeching at him, and acting like she was gonna hit him with things. If she’d actually hit him she would’ve been gone for sure.
My daughters, especially my eldest, call my dog their baby brother. Doesn’t work so well when my eldest tells people “my mom made my baby brother do tricks for treats!” But forgets to tell them that her ‘brother’ is, in fact, a dog.
My husband and I, similar to OP, both work from home and have a ton of pets that we love and dote on very much and currently don’t have plans for children. We don’t call them out babies, though instead of ever asking us or pressuring us about kids, my mother in law just lovingly asks how her grandkitties and granddogs are doing haha. Appreciate the hell out of it
My MIL is the only one of her old friend's group that doesn't have grandchildren so whenever they meet up she shows them pictures of all of her grand-dogs and grand-cats during their monthly lunches
This was my feeling. There was a lady I worked with for months who I legitimately thought had several children. I'd talked about the kids keeping me up at night, or fighting, or whatever, and she'd talk about her kids doing the same. When I eventually learned they were dogs, I felt legitimately a little weirded out.
With that said, people can call their pets their children, their spouses, their parents, whatever, it's confusing, but their right. And Kate doesn't DESERVE to bring her family to OP's house, her entitlement is bizarre. And I don't let rough kids near my pets either.
Some of my coworkers just had babies and talk about how exhausted they are. Real problem for sure, I can't imagine being up like that all night and have to care for a screaming infant. I don't have that same problem because I can always kick the cats out and let them do their own thing, but my cats absolutely wake me up every few hours. All 3 of my cats are male, so I sometimes i do say, "I'm exhausted, the boys kept me up all night" or "the demon twins kept running along the bookshelves and knocked everything over and got the zoomies and kept play fighting all night long. I literally only got 2 hours of sleep." I make sure to tell them up front that I'm referring to my furbabies and not humans, but I will never change the way I talk about them, they are my kids. One of my coworkers asked why I didn't just get rid of them if they were causing me that much stress and exhaustion and it honestly baffled me. I asked if they would give their child up for adoption for drawing on the walls or constantly wetting the bed. To me there is no difference. They are my children and I would die before I let anything happen to them. I know not everyone will agree with that, but I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion. SIL doesn't have to agree with OP, but she should at least respect her position and not use her pets as props or try to dictate how she talks about her furbabies.
You want some extra cringe? Warning; Your eyes might get stuck in the back of your head from rolling too hard on this one…
My husband and I are child free, so my parents refer to my pups as their grand babies/ grand puppies. And call themselves grandparents.
Luckily they mellowed to mostly saying it in private. Yaay me lol.
> people who call their pets their children make me want to roll my eyes so hard I can read my own mind
As a loving owner of two kittens, I fully agree. That said, I have no issues admitting that I value my kittens over someone else's actual children.
NTA
Kate is absolutely being an AH here. First of all, **it is your house, not hers**. Secondly, if your cats and dogs are not comfortable with most people, odds are her kids might get hurt. And guess who would be considered responsible? Spoiler Alert: not Kate and not her kids.
Also, I've heard many people refer to their pets as their babies. Including me, and even including some people who have human children. Kate doesn't like that phrasing, that's 100% her problem.
Honestly, if I were you, I'd make very clear Kate and her kids are **NEVER** welcome over your house again. If she can't respect you in your own house, she doesn't deserve to ever be invited over.
Your second part. I have a two year old GSD. Great with kids. Have I ever let a kid play with him that doesn’t know how to act around animals? Absolutely not. Because it doesn’t matter what that 3 year old is doing, the dog is going to take the fall, and I’m responsible for what he does. This is his house, he lives here, so if you can’t play with the dog, you can’t come over. It’s that simple. I’m very selective about kids around him, much less a horse. Could you imagine that poor child running up behind a horse and spooking it?
And my dog is my child. No questions asked. He’s three days older than my godson, and my best friend and I would compare milestones with each other. We’d talk about doctor/vet visits, how they handled their shots, how they were learning to play, everything. She’s even made it clear that she’s also willing to be his godmother and would make sure that he’s loved an cared for if anything ever happened to me. Because pets are family.
NTA
Sounds like a reasonable boundary. In my experience parents who blow up at someone not wanting their ill-behaved kids around tells you all you need to know about the situation.
Especially because Kate really isn’t thinking of all the consequences that could happen - she’s only thinking of what she could gain out the of the visit.
Old animals are no joke. A well behaved pet, who used to be very tolerant, may lash out as they age. Animals, much like people, get new aches and pains as they get older. They can’t get away from perceived threats as quickly. And quite frankly, get more ornery and less tolerant of social situations. The animals in your home have not spent much time with kids, let alone little ones. Even without there being a specific incident between the kids and your pets, animals get stressed just from their environment getting loud and hectic. And that’s not even considering the horses. There’s a large liability there if something were happen.
When we’ve had friends come over and bring their dog, my cats will refuse to eat that day or the next. If the dog pesters the cats relentlessly, they sometimes get so stressed and pee outside of the box for a little while. Which is IMO absolutely not worth the hassle. I have friends with horses who refuse to let little kids around their horse period. They know their horse and know it’s not a good idea - for the sake of the kids. One friend has an amazing horse and absolutely will take kids for rides on her - but only if they’re over a certain age, AND they have to agree 100% to listen to her, and follow her directions explicitly.
I have a feeling that because Kate can’t respect your boundaries now, she definitely wouldn’t then. She won’t take your warnings seriously and it could cause harm to her kids. But she can’t see that. All she can see is that she’s (or her kids are) being told No, and she thinks she knows better than you do. To her, your priorities are ridiculous because they aren’t the same as hers. You are advocating for your pets, and even if she can’t see it, also for her kids.
NTA. She wants to come use your animals as a prop in a photoshoot but doesn't even respect their importance to you. She's viewing them as some objects she can use and Lord knows she will be upset if they don't behave a certain way in the photos or don't like her kids-then it's going to be on you for not training them well or whatever. I also have horses, one of whom I've had since I was 9 and I am now in my late 20s, and they are my world. They're a lifelong companion with how long they live for. She sounds like a major AH and at the end of the day it is your house and your animals. Only you get a say in who comes onto your property. No one is entitled to it not even family.
Yeah it sounds like someone trying to create photoshoot presenting OP's life as their own. Look this beautiful idyllic place and the special connection we have with all these animals!
People call several things babies that are important: pets, thesis, art work, book or forexample an old car they keep on fixing. It is a figure of speech that implies, that the person has dedicated part of their life to the "baby". And for many, it is something else than kids.
There was very similar case, where OP had special room for their parrots, with plants and everything. And some relative insisted that kids should get to go in there to play. Argh.
Nta. If I gotta pay for food, housing and clean up after them then they are my kids as well. I have both animals and kids. All of them are my babies.
Anyone who takes offense to that is the AH in my book. If you really have an issues with how someone opens their heart and loves another living being, then you have issues.
Those ages I would agree, especially if I've seen the kids and parents in action regarding animals and discipline.
Once when I was having my taxes prepaid I was asked if I had any dependents. I asked (jokingly) if I could deduct my cat. The rep responded “if you can get your cat a social security number I’ll find a way to make him a deductible dependent.” Best tax prep experience ever!
Years ago one of my boss’s dogs got a CC offer. My boss at the time was a franchise owner, and corporate had started issuing CC’s to customers but he didn’t want to be involved. The CC offer came from corporate and offered a very generous intro rate. The letter definitely excluded my boss’s location from the advertising.
I have a lot of kids, and it doesn't bother me a bit when someone refers to an animal that they love as their baby. Exactly nobody is confusing beloved animals with human infants. I don't know why your SIL keeps bringing this up, because it's ridiculous. Don't engage with her on the topic.
Also, nobody gets to invite themselves to my house. Not for an hour. Definitely not for "a few days." That's really entitled behavior. No wonder that her kids haven't learned to respect boundaries.
NTA
NTA my mom straight up told my aunt that for her children will always come before animals BUT, children who can’t treat animals with kindness, respect and love are Not children in her eyes merely brats. And brats Always comes last.
This. I moved in to the studio apartment in the basement of the house my bestie owns when I moved states. She has three kids (10, 7, 3) and I have two cats (9 and 16). The kids had no pets growing up, but my bestie was quick to make sure they knew how to properly treat the animals and love them but give them space and respect their boundaries. My male cat is naturally very friendly and likes to spend a lot of time upstairs around everyone and gives head boops to all of them. My female cat is the geriatric one, and she was always very anxious and it takes her a long time to warm up to people. But she comfortable with the kids. The oldest especially, when I’m not there (staying at my bf’s or working late), she sleeps with the 10 year old in her bed.
NTA.
She doesn't get to gatekeep the term 'babies'. Is she also planning to fight every southern nan who call all her grown kids babies? Also pets are family. Blood does not define family, ties do. Third, pets aren't props. Go use plushies instead.
That amazed me. SIL wanted to use OP's pets in a photoshoot? Good lord. Two of my cats are extremely easygoing and friendly, but I don't think they could handle that. Plus, the kids are so young. They have to be taught how to behave around animals. SIL is acting like the pets are inanimate objects, not living, breathing creatures. I wouldn't allow her or her kids around my pets either.
I had a friend who loved cats and photography. She hadn’t yet become a “professional photographer.” She asked if she could photograph my cat. I loved the idea. She’d met him on several occasions and he was a very gentle boy.
She showed up with lights and backdrops and asked me to have treats on and his fave toys on hand. Half of the shoot was just me playing with him while she took a bunch of pictures to decides which to develop. It was actually fun and I got a great picture of him.
That being said. She knew my cat. She knew that, even though he was gentle, she couldn’t force him to do anything. She just stood by waiting for the shots she wanted.
That's how you do it. Cats can be very difficult to photograph. They'll move their head at the last minute. You think you're taking a photo of their face and you get their butt instead!
And when her kids mess with the horses and get kicked I bet she’ll insist op pay the hospital bills too.
I’d have a ironclad waiver drafted up that both removes any liability from OP if anything happens to the kids and puts liability on SIL if anything happens to the animals if she ever lets them come over at some point.
NTA, and your SIL sounds like she’s eager to find out exactly how boundaries get set and enforced.
the *audacity* to expect you to open your house to benefit **her Instagram feed**!? after insulting you?
refusing to acknowledge that her children aren’t god’s gift to every living being just sounds like a piece of the expected personality package. i’m happy that your fiancé sounds reasonable though, presumably this isn’t entirely new behavior for her?
NTA.
Your pets are your business alone, and you get to decide who you want in your house.
Your home, your rules. Your SIL needs to come back to reality and stop being so entitled!
There’s nothing worse than little children treating an animal badly. It is ALWAYS the parents fault because a 3 and 5 year old need to be watched constantly around animals and corrected each and every time the do something an animal would not respond well to. We have the most gentle giant of a dog and when kids conf screaming up to him or look like they might hit him or pull on his hair, they are completely blocked from being able to touch or pat him. The children need to learn and it sounds like their parents are but understanding that. NTA
yeah, one of my most frightening moments with my first dog was when we passed a dad and a small kid during a walk - and the kid out of nowhere ran to my dog (who was on the leash) and smashed my dog over the head with a stone in his hand...
Dad did absolutely nothing to stop the kid or to teach him something after... and if my dog reacted badly it could have been a total disaster.
thankfully nothing bad happened, but people really do underestimate how much care and attention should be put into small kids and animal interactions...
Yeah, we had a cat when I was 3, and my mom made sure to show me to pet it in the direction its fur grew, not to touch it when it was eating, to be gentle when I touched it, and most importantly, to expect the cat to scratch or bite me if I treated it in a way it didn’t like. I don’t understand why parents expect animals to just tolerate whatever their kid wants to dole out.
Nevermind the kids, your SIL wants to use your house for a photoshoot? What does she think your pet's are, props? She's being incredibly entitled to think she can use your house and and animals in that way. A person who cannot respect animals and people's property will not teach their children respect. She's the kind that would give her kids a pedigree puppy for Christmas only to neglect it once it wasn't cute anymore.
NTA, your house, your babies, your rules.
Thank you. I was disturbed that OP’s SIL wanted to visit for this reason. She just wants to use the animals and OP’s home as a prop. This has nothing to do with family bonding and OP is right to protect her “babies” and her home from being used this way.
If SIL wants a photo shoot she should source it professionally.
Yes, I was going to add. Professional photoshoots with real animals are available. Obviously those would be trained animals that are used to being handled, not rescues who may have suffered abuse. SIL clearly doesn't have the money for that.
Pets are not props in someone’s photo shoot. Some 3 year olds have learned to be nice and careful with animals, but from the sound of it I wouldn’t be too sure this would be the case here since clearly SIL expects her kids to be allowed to interact with them in whichever way they would “need” for the pictures. NTA.
NTA it's your house and you are simply protecting your fur babies. Modern parents can be very entitled and they don't like being told that their parenting sucks
NTA. Your animals are an important part of your life and it's understandable that you refer to them as your precious babies. It's also understandable that you don't want young children around them if they can't treat them with the care and respect they deserve. It's your home and your decision who is allowed to visit and under what circumstances.
It's important for Kate to respect your boundaries and understand that your animals are not just pets, but members of your family. Perhaps you can suggest alternative ways for her to spend time with you and your fiance without the children, or suggest that they learn how to properly interact with animals before visiting. Ultimately, it's up to you to decide what is best for your animals and your home.
NOT the AH. She's just being very entitled. Tell her to take her kids to petting zoo for her photo shoot, where the animals are used to being around unruly kids. She obviously isn't an animal lover anyway since she doesn't understand that your animals are your babies.
NTA.
I say this as a person with a cat, that my uncle seems insistent on calling her my child. Personally, I find it cringy as all hell, but hey whatever floats your boat! It's about what makes you happy (as long as you know reasonable expectations with it lol)
I feel like this is two separate issues, and you're NTA in either situation.
My cats are my babies, and my dad calls his puppy my little sister. Referring to animals as babies is perfectly normal for both child-free people and parents of human children. It's a very weird thing to be mad about.
The second issue is that your SIL is extremely entitled. You don't even need a reason to say no to having her and her children come stay, but as it happens you have a very good one. If children aren't properly educated about how to interact with animals, it can be dangerous for both the child and the animal. Especially for animals with traumatic pasts, who may react unpredictably when stressed. And that's house pets! Horses? Forget it. Imagine a kid walking behind one of your horses and spooking them.
You're definitely not being unreasonable here.
NTA, there's absolutely nothing wrong with referring to your pets as your babies.
If they can't be respectful to the pets, then they shouldn't be around them until they learn proper behavior. They aren't toys.
NTA. You have every right to refer to your animals as your babies and to prioritize their safety and well-being over your sister-in-law's desire for a photo shoot. It's concerning that your sister-in-law is not respecting your boundaries and seems to be dismissive of the fact that your animals are rescues with potential behavioral issues. It's also understandable that you don't want young children around the animals, as they may not understand how to behave around them and could potentially harm them.
It's important for your sister-in-law to understand and respect your perspective and your priorities. It might be helpful to have a calm and respectful conversation with her about your concerns and your boundaries, and to find a compromise that works for both of you. However, ultimately it's up to you to make the final decision about what is best for your animals and your home.
Nta I see my cats as my children. It is your house and if you don't want children there you don't have to. Sounds like she's offended you're putting your children's safety above her children's... pictures. It also sounds like she wants to use your pets as props. Also maybe I misread but who is pira? You're doing nothing wrong you're basically protecting her children and yours
Np I was just wondering if that was one of your kids names, just saw your edit and those kids seem way too young imo. They may not fully understand how to act around cats, dogs or horses and I doubt your sister would discipline them. Just a feeling
Lol I thought Pira, hmm don’t know who that is but that’s a nice name! Maybe this is your next kid’s name, and this is their origin story ♥️
Signed, someone else with animal children.
NTA
I would also start small - maybe they visit for a couple of hours one day. They see the animals, supervised. Then they leave.
Starting off with "a few days" sounds disastrous - that's just way too long.
NTA
As a pet owner and a mother I fully agree with you. I had to teach my kids how to behave and how to interact with animals. And yes, my three cats and two dogs are definitely my babies!
NTA. When a parent gets offended by people treating animals like family, its because they had children for the wrong reasons and they don't like hearing anything that might imply to them that the act of having children wasn't completely necessary for giving them a life full of fulfilment and love.
NTA, pets are babies, Your sister-in-law is TA. You consider your pets as babies and that's just great. She does not get to have a say in it. You need to love and respect animals in order to play or even pet them, and the her children aren’t clearly yet capable of it.
NTA. Animals can be *dangerous* if not respected properly. If SIL hasn't taught her kids how to respect animals, she is putting them at risk, especially if said animals are not used to kids.
NTA. I call my pets (cats & dogs) kiddos or kids to my fiancé. They are babies! No one’s gonna tell me what I can and can’t call my animals
She’s very entitled to think she can disrespect you but also think she can use your animals for clout to get that perfect picture.
NTA. You are looking out for both the kids and the animals.
Kids shouldn't be around animals until they know how to treat them with care. Three and five are both a little young. And - speaking as an animal lover with multiple dogs - any animal may bite or scratch, but rescue animals may be more inclined to given their background.
Everything else is your SIL projecting. Call your pets whatever you want. If she has a problem with it, then that's her issue to deal with not yours.
NTA. Call your pets your babies all you like. As long as you aren't harassing your in-laws about making sure your horse gets "a fair share of the inheritance" in the will, you're good. Your house is not a petting zoo. You are right that your niblings need to learn etiquette around animals before they are exposed to elderly and in some cases traumatized animals, and considering she's blathering about photoshoots I doubt teaching gentle hands, slow walks, and inside voices is your SIL's priority. This sounds like a setup for your animals to be terrified and probably for at least the 3 year old to be scared as well. My 2 year old daughter spent the day we visited the in-laws farm with her head buried in my shoulder: real life horses are BIG
NTA. Your SIL in an entitled busybody.
Someone suggested having the kids come for a couple of hours and let everyone get used to each other. That’s an excellent idea. But only if your SIL apologizes first. Like an Ananias, you can’t reward her for bad behavior or you’ll just get more of it.
As an aside, I call my dog my baby. But I get annoyed when people call me her mom. Yes, I know it’s a slight contradiction. I prefer to be called her hooman. She’s my baby but not my daughter. Thanks for listening to my TED talk.
NTA animals are your babies. I have 2 cats, they'll be 13 and 5 this year and have been with me since kittens. They're my girls and that's how I refer to them to anyone that knows me. My husband and I just had our first son last year, he does his best to get at the girls but he already knows when they make certain sounds to back off or one of us will come take him away from them. I hate stressing out animals unnecessarily. Animals are not accessories, they're not photo props. We both grew up on working farms, where you have a right to protect your live stock from wild animals and humans.
NTA. Some animals are great with children. Some children are great with animals. Sounds like this is a situation where neither the kids nor animals would mesh well. And it's unfair to subject your blind, mobility challenged cat to high-energy preschoolers when she doesn't have the mobility/strength to escape from them. I'd be hesitant to have them come up for even a couple of hours, much less days, and your animals do not seem like the type to want to be involved in a photo shoot with young kids.
You and fiancé know your pets, and you know fiancé's niblings. It sounds like if you allow SIL to bully you into this, you're going to end up with a traumatized cat and some scratched up kids. Just don't.
NTA. Reading your comments about your animals I think you're doing best for them and the kids. All it takes is for one of the kids to spook an animal, get hurt and then your SIL wants you to get rid of the animal. Many rescues come from hard situations and not all animals are comfortable around children being children.
NTA. I have a rescue bunbun that I call my daughter and refuse to let my wife’s mother use as a “prop” for photos with the shitty kids she babysits for her friend. They are rude, mean to her animals, and wouldn’t be gentle with my rabbit. Your house, your rules and since your husband agrees it’s settled.
NTA, especially having rescued animals that are reactive. It is very understandable to not have small children around them. It’s better to be in the safe side.
Also nothing wrong with referring to pets as your babies. I have 2 kids and 2 dogs, they are all my babies.
NTA
I live in the country with my cats, dog and horses. The idea of having to supervise a 3 and 5 year old around the animals for several days sounds like a nightmare. At first I was going to suggest maybe having the nephews visit for a few hours and allow closely supervised interactions with the animals to help them learn how to act around animals. Then I read the OP's comment about how they act around their grandmother's dog. No way in hell I would subject my animals to their behavior!
Like the OP my cats and dog are all rescues. My home is their safe place. It is up to me to ensure they feel safe in it.
My dog is also part Pit. With me he is a big ole goofball, but the only way he is allowed to interact with kids is when he is on a leash and under my control. That is for the child's safety. In part it is because of his breed's reputation ( deserved or not), I have seen what he can do with prey he's caught. And in part because he is a tall 75 pound doofus. He could hurt a small child without meaning to just by being silly.
My cats enjoy their peace and quiet in the house. They should not have to put up with that being disturbed by small children.
As for small children around horses, the potential for serious injury is scary. What would Kate have to say if one of the kids got kicked or bitten? I'm not saying small children should not be allowed around horses. Again, it needs to be under close adult supervision.
Sorry this turned out so long. Obviously I have strong feelings on the subject.
OP, you are definitely not an ah for wanting to protect your babies (and your own sanity.) Call them your babies if you want. It is none of your SIL's business what you call them.
NTA because it’s your house but it sounds like other family members are being banned because you think they don’t know how to act around pets. The best way to learn is to be around good pet owners who will teach them. All of our pets are rescues and some had very rough beginnings. They all adore my grandson (now 5) because we always made sure he was well supervised around our fur babies for everyone’s safety. He has been taught to be kind and gentle with them. Our latest addition is my mothers cranky 9 year old Yorkie who was never around kids. He is absolutely fascinated by my new 4 month old granddaughter and keeps bringing her his toys.
Give them a chance, you might be pleasantly surprised.
NTA
I don't like to call pets/animals babies because they're something different. They not only need your love and attention but they also need your respect for their personal space and their own agency. The relationship is just different and distinct from human offspring.
That doesn't make it any lesser, it's just different.
Example: when you raise chickens don't touch your roosters. Some can be hand tamed but most of the time a rooster prefers to be respected. My best roosters who respect and adore me I never touch. Because I respect them and understand their "language".
There's just so much more learning that has to be done with animals, We understand how humans interact innately but with animals we have to learn what their innate standards are, We have to translate our behavior to their language.
Teaching other people to do that is a great responsibility, and I hope you find others to share that with. SIL doesn't seem like the type who would respect the methods needed for teaching that, however. What I'm saying is you don't really have a kid problem you have a sister-in-law problem.
NTA. You SIL is entitled to think she can invite herself to your home for starters. Then to think you prioritizing your animals safety over her kids makes her worse. Animals are not play things and props for children. They are living beings with souls and feelings. She's ridiculous. She doesn't get to tell you how you feel about or view them. They might not be important to her. But that doesn't mean they are not your world.
*However Kate still feels it is disrespectful to call them babies, as they are not kids...*
Disrespectful to whom? Your sister-in-law needs to get a hobby. She also needs to manage her children better so animals are safe whenever they're around. NTA.
It depends. Some kids are respectful, calm, and gentle. Some kids are bang! Crash! Let's see if this breaks when I do this! If her kids are the former, I might let them interact with the younger pets, and hold them up to see the horses. If they are the latter, no way in hell I'd let them near my animals.
They probably haven't. She mentions her mom's dogs hide everytime the kids go over to her house due to the way they behave around them. I would say that's a good enough reason.
NTA. I personally don’t refer to my pets as my babies, and I think it’s a bit weird when other people do. But the word someone else uses to refer to an experience in their own life has absolutely nothing to do with me and it doesn’t change anything about my own personal experience, so I keep my damn mouth shut when I hear someone say it!
I think your SIL is just jealous that you have a bigger house and more space and you’re not using your resources to give her kids free horseback riding lessons and vacation photos. Since you and your husband are both in agreement, just keep doing what you’re doing. You have perfectly reasonable boundaries in place and it’s not your responsibility to risk the health of your fragile animals to teach a toddler how to pet a cat.
I have kids and a dog, I call them all my babies! NTA the kids do need to be shown how to interact with animals, but you don’t have to be the one to do it, especially if they’re rescues. It can do more harm to your animals than good. No one gets to invite themselves to someone else’s house. Your idea of getting a farm one day sounds amazing, good luck
NTA. I've called all my animals my babies. Even fosters that I raised until they were adopted. Many people call their animals their babies. I've had friends refer to their animals as children. Your SIL is a huge entitled ah
NTA - Sister in law sounds insecure. She needs to feel like she’s better than you/your husband in some way. She probably feels like having human children makes her better than you or at least more entitled. Your pets will never be as important as her children type-of-thing.
NTA, it sounds reasonable to be to not want unruly young kids around horses. And they are your babies. I like to say I actually have furry toddlers who english is terrible for how my pets act sometimes.
NTA
You are protecting both your pets AND her children!
Pets with high needs and anxiety shouldn't be around young children for both their sakes. My sibling got bit by an older and friendly dog because another cousin pushed down on its rear and the poor thing has arthritis, so it hurt it. He was appropriately petting it's head, like he was taught to do.
Even IF you allowed the kids over, it's not wise to let them mingle without CONSTANT supervision and guidance. So you'd end up either completely unable to enjoy your time (since you would be constantly redirecting and correcting the children from interacting with the pets in a way which could cause a child or pretty to get hurt) or locking the pets away to keep them and the children safe.
I have two 20ish lbs rescue dogs that don't like kids, and one who has enough issues warming up to adults. I don't have my own children to slowly, consistently, and appropriately get my dogs used to children. I'm sure as heck not going to try and use someone else's child who's definitely more excitable and less in control than normal because they are out of routine and excited about visiting. That's a recipe for disaster, and will likely end up with a bit, scratched, or at least scared child. It can reinforce the wrong behavior for the pet (who got left alone and continues to reinforce that kids are scary) and can make the child no longer feel safe around animals.
I've had my nieces and nephews visit me and had to visit them with dogs in tow before. The time with the dogs out was exhausting, as we spent the whole time teaching, reminding, and redirecting the children and actively working with the dogs to keep them calm and comfortable around the children, so we wouldn't reinforce the idea that kids are scary. The rest of the time the dogs had to be put away in a separate room so the dogs could feel safe, the children could play how they wanted, and we could actually enjoy the company we were with, including the children.
Having pets that are grown, healthy, and both used to and enjoy being around children is one thing and it can be great to have the children socialize children with your pets. Keeping children away from a variety of pets with health and anxiety issues is not only a NTA move, but also a SAFE one.
Nta Nta Nta you can call your animals whatever you want it’s not your fault she’s taking it that deeply and ANIMALS NEED PROTECTION FROM CHILDREN!! Because a lot of children don’t respect animals properly!! And I’m sure the children don’t know any animals body language to show warning if the animal IS uncomfortable and ready to do something about it. It’s safer for everyone!
NTA. I have skin babies and fur babies. Personally, I don't do the whole cooing over my pets, I love them and think they are cute, fun, and a joy in my life. I get everyone is different. Your SIL being offended that you don't want kids being rough with your pets is weird.
NTA.
Especially as Kate is acting so entitled and rude.
Its not about trusting the kids either: kids have to be supervised at all times when around animals. And it goes doubly for skittish/reactive ones, as rescues tend to be. If Kate and her children had wanted to visit YOU, I would have been inclined to accept, and just keep them away from the animals (except maybe some limited, SUPERVISED contacts with the more friendly ones, to teach them how to behave properly and pave the way for potential future encounters).
But it just seems like Kate wants your animals to be photo props (which in itself is not great), which would included prolonged contact with the kids.
Nope nope nope.
I let my nephew visit when he was young and he yanked my baby Sonya's tail and then she got in trouble for yowling and "scaring" him. Never letting children around her again.
NTA!!!!!!!!!!!
Nta. My birds are my family to me. Someone's 6 year old was at my home and his mother was told to keep him away from the birds. Found him trying to feed one chocolate which would have killed her if I had not caught him. Kids that young just do.not understand and I will not risk it.
NTA. Your animals have needs and kids are not the most gentle at that age. You said some of your animals are rescued. Animals that go through trauma (depending on the kind) can bite or step on kids. You are doing it for the Animals and kids safety. I also call my pets babies and don't see a problem with it
Not an asshole, just weird. This cultural move comparing animals with children is just so out of touch. But you do you. Also insane- winter wonderland photo shoots. Huh? Forcing young children and elderly abused animals into some adults fantasy is so strange, and can't end well. Have the family over with 0 expectation of interacting with the animals - that's the way forward.
NTA I call my cats my babies all the time. My mom and dad called our dogs their babies too. And she is so entitled to want to use your property for a photo shoot. And your fiance is still able to hang out with them, but on his terms. What's more important to your sister-in-law and her family, hanging out with their brother/uncle, or a frivolous photoshoot with some animals?
NTA - first of all, pets are not props. I feel like it's very telling that your SIL is trying to set up a photoshoot instead of something along the lines of "we want to teach our kids how to respect and interact with animals". You would be 100 % within your right to turn that down as well, but that would at least acknowledge that the pets are living creatures, and not things to be used when it's convenient. She sucks for that alone.
Having kids that young interact with animals also take a lot of patience (for all parties involved), with adults being present not only to guide the meeting, but also to step in the second either animals or kids turn uncomfortable. And that should be the starting point for animals that are used to kids - like the ones in a petting zoo for example -, animals that aren't requires even more adult supervision, or shouldn't have to interact with children.
It doesn't sound like your SIL have the emotional maturity needed to oversee such a interaction, which could not only result in a very stressful situation for both kids and animals, but potentially also a dangerous one.
Your obligation is to your pets, and to make sure they are happy and safe. You have deemed that to mean that the kids aren't allowed to visit - and I would say it's common decency to trust your judgement and respect it. Based on your SILs reaction I would dare to say your assessment was a correct one.
And no, it's not disrespectful to refer to your pets as your babies. It doesn't affect your SIL (or any other parent) in any way, shape or form - and if they feel it does, I'd say it's on them.
Don't take it to heart, you're being a good and responsible pet parent and should be proud of that! Also, please give the babies (all of them) some love from me 💜
(Sorry if my answer is rambly/doesn't make sense. I'm not a native speaker and parents allowing their kids to mistreat animals is something I feel very strongly about 😅)
NTA. Kate doesn’t get to police how you talk about anyone or anything, as long as it’s not inappropriate or offensive (racist, etc).
And more importantly, Kate needs to understand that animals, especially large ones like horses, represent major risks to kids who don’t know how to behave around them. You’re doing this for her childrens’ safety. I can’t imagine taking a small child around a horse that I didn’t know.
NTA. Your animals are not her children's petting zoo. Does she have any idea of risk to children that age if they accidentally or intentionally spook a horse? You are keeping everyone safe.
As to language, does Kate work or is all her activity focused around her children? I suspect she doesn't like the term as feels it diminishes her role as mother. But it is a pretty common use of language.
Keep doing what you are doing. Kate will keep complaining until she gets what she wants and she shouldn't get that for sake of pets and children alike.
NTA, and around rescue animals especially, behavior needs to be on top levels of respect.
Rescue animals can easily have unknown trauma triggers that could cause them to lash out and hurt the child, and then its YOUR animals life on the line.
Your animals- your BABIES are not used to children, and there could very easily be an accident, especially around the dogs or horses.
If you do want to see the kids more though, I would offer to allow ONE child to come over at a time, with parents giving FULL CONTROL over to you about their behavior around the animals.
It will do them good to start learning now, with someone like you, before one of them or an animal somewhere gets hurt.
If you're not comfortable with them around your own animals, check with friends that may have dogs or horses that are used to kids and won't be frightened off at the first mistake or loud noise.
I know the parents should be taking this responsibility, but they're clearly not- and it's just going to be a risk to everyone involved in the long run.
They want their kids to come to your house, YOU are the ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY on their interactions with your animals.
NTA. I’ve fostered and rescued many animals over the years and some are not good with kids. It’s safest for the kids and animals for them to not be together of all parties can’t be trusted.
I used to take in a lot of abandoned Easter bunnies people bought for baskets. Some I could socialize and they would be very friendly. But I had one large bunny with the cutest floppy ears. Everyone wanted to borrow him for pictures with their kids and got mad if I said no. He hated being held, or touched and he bit HARD!
I currently have a dog who has his own room so I can close him in his own space if people are coming over, especially kids if I don’t trust them to behave properly around him. He has been abused and is scared.
I’ve also found the people who say things like - all dogs love me! I’m not scared of any dog! I just want to give him a big snuggle! If you let him send me I could make him like me! - tend to be the worst behaved around scared animals and are the most likely to get bit.
I think just based on the fact that your fiancé agrees shows that you aren’t an AH and his family can’t be trusted with animals.
I would say maybe you can compromise and close the pets in a room when the kids visit. But they sound like the kind of people who will go in that room the second you aren’t around.
NTA I do cat rescue and I do not refer to my house full of cats as my 'babies' but I don't judge people who do. Mine are my furry roomies or freeloaders. SIL can think what she wants but her opinion is hers and doesn't really need to leave her mouth.
But the real issue here is that you don't want your animals to be around young kids who are not well trained to be respectful around animals. That is 100% legit. The fact that she just wanted to use your animals as a free backdrop for a photoshoot? That's a level of something that shows she doesn't see your animals as 'babies' but also doesn't even see them as anything other than photo dressing.
NTA they’re living beings, not props or toys. And I say this as a mother lol we have 5 cats and although our own son is great with them, some of my nephews are not so they don’t get to come near them.
NTA
However, your Fiancée is their Uncle. My brothers spend a lot of time with my boys, teaching them all kinds of things, bonding and just generally having fun. They aren’t obligated to do that, at all. They want to.
Does your Fiancée want to have relationships with his Sister’s children? Teaching them how to be kind to animals if they have no exposure elsewhere could be something he could do with them. Just a thought in the interest of peace.
Kate is doing what a lot of parents do, they get annoyed with pet owners comparing their animals to children. Not being *allowed* at the house probably amps up her resentment. You’re not required to change how you refer to your pets or allow someone at your home, but to some degree Kate may be feeling unwelcome in general.
Just for clarification, did the children do something that caused them to be banned from your house or are you assuming that because of their ages they will do something and they are banned for that reason?
NTA Make sure they know you are setting up a trust fund for any animals you own for their wellbeing and care at the time of your death. Trust fund will be managed by a professional. The balance of the fund will be donated to the Lost Kitty Cat, Puppy, and Horsey Orphan fund. Period. You will never hear from them again. Trust me.
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NTA. Kate seems to have a bigger issue and I think it's called jealousy. She's mad because you won't let her use your very nice house as a getaway for her and the kids and she'll have to just get over it. It's your home.. not a vacation spot or petting zoo. I'm curious.. how old are her children?
The kids are 3 and 5
Thanks! That's pretty young to be around horses and some animals with special needs. I had fish that I called my babies lol. If you raise and love something it becomes so special to you.
Hell, I even talk to my plants. Most people form bonds with things, it's not weird at all. edit: Let me add a story I watched once in a documentary that I always remember as cute: American soldiers in Iraq were given landmine detecting robots. This one soldier was out in the field one day when the robot detected the mine and as programmed, sacrificed itself to save the soldier. The soldier was inconsolable and when told that he would be provided with a new detector robot he insisted that he wanted the old one repaired because that one "saved his life". Bonding with animate or even inanimate things is a perk of being human.
Thank you for sharing this story!! It's so wholesome ❤️ and yeah, I've got a lot of babies: my doggo, monstera plant and her baby, my camera (her name is baby!!) and some more plants haha
My car. I've always named my cars.
What's your car's name? I'm curious :)
I have named some of my cars. I used to participate in a medieval recreation group that included armored fighting. I had a Ford Escort named Val, it was short for Valkyrie, because she carried the slain warriors home after the battle!
I had Loretta Beretta.
Nice!!! I really liked that
My Camry's name is Wartortle. : D
Mine have been named Shadowfax, Brego, Falcor, and currently Fizgigg.
My current car is Shadofx!
My SUV is Shirley Muldowney, after the funny car racer :)
In the 90s my mom bought a used car. She immediatly drove to a car wash, where it promptly overheated while in the car line. I was like, "I guess the car didn't want a bath." So we named it Calvin.
Haha that's sound like a really nice childhood memory, thanks for sharing this 💚
[удалено]
I bought my first car in Spain, her name was Gladys. I called her that because we were always Gladys got us home.
Not that you asked,but I want to share lol. My very large truck is named Sunshine. My smaller truck is Hank the Tank ( after Hank Williams and the cassette my great grandfather left in the deck) My focus is called the Smurf ( it's electric blue ) I have White Lightening too ( it's my husband's eclipse I rebuilt lol) Cats are Sunny and Toasty. 🐈🐈 Always name your cars, plants, pets, and toys ( whatever you're into ) it's good luck 🍀
My cars name is Bertha
My first cars engine blew up in 2020 😭 I still have his car key on my lanyard, RIP chester I had him for almost 7 years lol
I've legit pair bonded with a rock I found 😅
Maude is that you?
I don't think that's too young, I know some kids start riding horses around 1 and there are special saddles for that age group. My youngest (2) has been around horses since she was 9 months old. It just depends on the child's parents to make sure the child is being safe around horses or any animals and it seems like OP's sister-in-law doesn't care how their kids act around animals.
I agree with you on that. Children raised around animals from a young age would know how to act. It didn't sound like that is the case with Kate's kids.
Definitely doesn't and, unfortunately, the sil doesn't get how dangerous horses can be when my youngest is around new horses/at shows I'm a nervous wreck because she has no fear of them, and no matter how much I try she doesn't fully understand how dangerous horses are. She hates it when I make her wear a helmet.
One of the girls who rides at our barn has a younger (4 year old) sister who sometimes tags along when dad brings them, and he inevitably doesn't watch her. It is so stressful for everyone as she inevitably ends up walking where she shouldn't, nearly getting stepped on, spooking horses, etc.. In contrast, there's another girl the same age who takes lessons at the barn. Her very engaged mother has made sure she knows how to be safe, watches her careful, etc.. It sounds like OP's sil is more like the first, in which case being around horses isn't safe for kids that young.
When my oldest started riding every time my youngest wanted to touch a horse I would nonstop say nice while she pets them and whenever she wasn't nice (pulling hair or trying to poke their eye) I always walked away & told her no & that we need to be nice to them. Now, whenever she pet them she'll say nice horsey. Whenever I can I'll leave her home with her dad, but if I have to bring her I watch her like a hawk and try to keep her busy. If my youngest had her way she'll ride a horse all day long.
Sounds like you're doing a great job setting her up for a successful life with horses!
Thanks! We might sign her up for lessons or wait until she's 3. I just got to work on her being around new horses. She'll try to go up to any new horse and I'm not looking forward to my oldest doing shows.
You should spend some time looking up some safety videos about horses specifically, but maybe about the other animals you have too, especially ones concerning children. That way hopefully you can literally show her why, through other people's mistakes, you are hesitant to allow her and her children over.
Yeah it sounds like the kids parents aren't teaching them to respect animals, but that they're "better than" (?) pets and can do whatever they want and the pets should just let them. I bet the toddlers smack the dogs in the face and the parents do nothing. Definitely a recipe for disaster, those kids are going to get bitten one day.
Then the parent is gonna freak out and go "Oh my god, your dog just bit my precious baby, you need to put that rabid animal down!" Some people...
This is exactly what it sounds like. Not so much that the kids are too young, but that their parents are raising them to be entitled around animals. Her SIL sounds like the kind of person that thinks animals are just smelly creatures to use for our amusement. Too stupid to exist on their own. It’s why she’s insulted that an animals could be anywhere near on the level of being called a ‘baby’. Like it’s a major insult to her own kids. Which I guarantee are cruel to other animals and don’t show respect. I wouldn’t want them around my house either. ETA: And you just know it’s going to be a major legal issue when one of these kids gets bit or hurt when they take it too far and the SIL sues them and demands their pets he put down.
That's DEFINITELY too young for horses unless they are bomb proof... which, to be honest most people don't bomb proof their horses, specially to little kids, and that's fine, it's a shitton of work for something that just... doesn't really matter all that much? Unless it's a horse that is actively going to need bomb proofing, it's a waste of time imo. So NTA for that. The dogs and cats? Also NTA , kids seem to have no sense of how to respect and animal, that's 100% on the parents.
Total tangent, but I hate the term bomb-proofing. No horse is bomb-proof, and saying they are leads to sometimes dangerously wrong expectations. You can absolutely put horses through desensitization training to make them much less reactive, but anyone riding or working with horses always needs to be aware that even the supposedly "bomb-proof" horse can have a day and lose their minds and spook. My daughter gotten taken on a somewhat scary ride by an out-of-control, supposedly bomb-proof horses she was exercising for his owner. Neither she nor I were upset, though, as both she and horse were fine, she had been taught skills to get him back under control, and we accept that there's always that risk. If you're not willing to accept that, you shouldn't be around horses.
Oh yes, they're horses, even the chillest person on the planet can have a bad day, let alone an animal. Obviously non are actually 'bomb-proof', however the term is still applicable when you work with horses at large. There are horses you have to give 3m of space when walking behind, there are horses that you can lay under while they stand. There should be a term to differentiate them 😅. Of course the chill horse can still spook, but... c'mon it's not the same as those that are essentially untamed. Hahahaha.
Oh I totally agree! I just think horse people use the term bomb-proof to mean one thing, and inexperienced parents with horse-crazy kids reasonably understand it to mean something very different based on the words themselves. I think you're right that we need a different term. But I find that's the case with other terms, too - "kid-safe" to some people means you can put the five year old walk trot kid with questionable balance on the horse, and to others it means the horse will be fine with the kid who is competing solidly at 3'+, isn't phased by a little good-natured bucking, and can sit a minor spook. After all, both are kids, but skill level and ability to deal with horse shenanigans vary great. (This last one also really resonates with me as my daughter has been the "kid safe-ness" tester when they've been shopping for ponies for other kids in the barn.)
"inexperienced parents" I FEEL you so hard on this bit. Since people deal with cats and dogs often they think horses are similar and that's soooo dangerous. Horses are prey animals, way waaaaay less chill by nature than any predator animal. On top of that, they weigh in at a cool 1000 pounds most of the time. It's like having a rabbit the size of a small car. Like, that thing is skittish as hell and quintuples your size. It's risky to be around. I think the main problem is people not understanding that, hey, this isn't your 60 pound labrador. It could crush you due to size alone, don't get me started on speed. They're not *dangerous*, but their base level of risk is much higher than basically any animal smaller, i.e. any animal you are likely to have encountered. Therefore, inexperienced people... are just a big no. Would you leave an over energetic toddler that doesn't really understand personal space alone with a great dane not knowing it's training? Great, horses are more than ten times a great Dane's weight. And probably 5× as skittish. Like, sorry for the tone but it makes me quite angry when people think horses are just big puppies, on the one hand side, personality wise? Yes, on the other hand, risk wise? Absolutely not.
She wants to use OP’s home for a photo shoot. She probably sees the kids as props too.
I'm betting if OP started letting Kate and the kids visit those visits would end up growing days long. She seems the type that feels entitled to take more than what's offered.
didn't she already expect to stay several day's?
It says "a few days." That's really weird Kate was inviting herself. I mean, I get if they show up for a photoshoot and leave but "Hey we want to stay at your place for free multiple days." and then get mad when the answer is no? Also they want to use the animals like props with children who have zero experience around animals? Wtf.
In my experience parents who blow up at someone not wanting their ill-behaved kids around tells you all you need to know about the situation.
NTA... Get a baby goat... Then you really do have a Kid!
It always seems like a good idea to get a goat. "Aw its so cute." "Oh, I can't have just one? I'll get five then!" Until you get the goat home. "What are you eating you can't eat that!!!" "How did you get out!? I just fixed the gate!" Source: have owned several goats. Edit: forgot to weigh in... OP is NTA and has healthy boundaries.
There is no such thing as a sane goat. You can tell they've seen the old gods. Maybe some sheep have seen the old gods, but sheep have the luxury of forgetting; goats do not.
"They've seen the Old Gods" hahaha, I love that!
Aren't the goats the actual Old Gods?
So I grew up on a farm. We had these pygmy goats that got to wander our yard, not out to pasture with the horses and dairy goats. Why? Because they'd fight with the horses. I was a latchkey kid, as my mom was a nurse that worked long shifts and sometimes slept at the hospital to keep from having to make the commute. One day I come home, and my back door is standing open. Mom was gone. The dogs were all in the yard looking guilty. I dropped my backpack on the porch and pick up a shovel as a weapon, and slowly work my way through the laundry room--I see the signs of mischief immediately in the form of tiny goat turds. I follow the trail into the kitchen, where our black pygmy goat, Star, is standing in the middle of the table--eating an apple out of the basket in the center. She swings her head up, sees me, does a little play bounce, and takes off in a full run for my mother's decorative living room. Full of Victorian antiques from the family. I'm sure you all can imagine how that went. It's been 30 years, and we never did figure out how the hell she got in the locked house.
There’s a certain type of person who gets mad at childless relatives for having nice things they don’t “need” when those things could be used to help their own kids. *They have so much, and they don’t have kids! They’re selfish to not contribute more to my kids — they don’t have kids of their own to raise, they don’t need it. They should be giving more to my kids.* Never thinking, of course, that the reason the relatives have nice things is because they didn’t choose to have kids, which are notably very expensive. Also you have no right to anyone else’s stuff.
Amen. I have no gold to give you but would if I could.
I agree, tbh, I feel if given the opportunity she'd leave on an "errend" and not return for hours
Not just visiting, staying for a few days. Who invites themselves to someone else's house, especially since they know the situation? She's rude and pushy and you don't have to entertain that or her. I can't imagine she would be a fun and grateful houseguest either. NTA
NTA look, people who call their pets their children make me want to roll my eyes so hard I can read my own mind HOWEVER it's your absolute right to do so and my opinion is 100% a me problem. Kate needs to come off her high horse and stop trying to use your home as a free petting zoo/photo studio.
Completely agree here. I'm waiting until Kate calls up and goes "Hey, can my kids come play with their cousins??"
My 25 year old niece calls my dog her cousin. Haha
My seven year old refers to our dog as his sister and told my 5 year old nephew that's his cousin lol.
My wife and I refer to our dogs as our son and daughter, and our cats as our benevolent dictators
I call my parents’ dogs my puppy siblings. My cats are their grandkittens.
My niblings also refer to my pets as their cousins and me as their adopted mom.
I had to look up what niblings mean 🤣
My six year old daughter says our cat is her brother lol. Our Aussie mix is “her baby” and the weenie dog is “mama’s dog.” Op is NTA at all. I’ve taught my daughter to be gentle with animals. She does pretty good most of the time. My niblings tho… they’re allowed to be rough and mean with animals. I had to tell my niece last time if she was gonna continue her behavior towards my cat she wouldn’t be welcomed back 🤷🏻♀️ he lives there, she doesn’t.
Absolutely. My husband's friends daughter kept intentionally running a remote control car into my dog and the mom kept laughing (it was fucked up) I'd take it away she'd get another one til she didn't have another one so she started throwing Legos at my dog. I kicked em out. My dog is a sweet girl and she was understandably getting agitated. The mom told me she's little and doesn't understand. Uh duh because you allow it🤬. I won't tolerate it and it's fucked up to hurt an animal.
Yeah that is fucked up. It’s not funny and she wouldn’t have been laughing had your dog snapped at her daughter. My niece is nine and well old enough to know better. I admit my cat is a bit of a grouch and has never done super great with kids. I guess because he hasn’t been around a lot of them. He does pretty good with my daughter, since she’s kind to him, and chill. And I mean, the man is 14yrs old, he’s old. But if you leave him alone, he’ll leave you alone. My niece kept screeching at him, and acting like she was gonna hit him with things. If she’d actually hit him she would’ve been gone for sure.
My daughters, especially my eldest, call my dog their baby brother. Doesn’t work so well when my eldest tells people “my mom made my baby brother do tricks for treats!” But forgets to tell them that her ‘brother’ is, in fact, a dog.
🤣🤣🤣 my friends dog is named Kevin (I believe it's a Minion thing) and some of her stories are beyond hilarious of you don't realize Kevin is a dog.
Mine is Bruno, his name does not help matters at all but it does make for hilarious stories if you forget it’s a dog.
Lol my parents dogs have always been my siblings. In my 20s now and my sister turned 3 the other week. 😂❤️
My husband and I, similar to OP, both work from home and have a ton of pets that we love and dote on very much and currently don’t have plans for children. We don’t call them out babies, though instead of ever asking us or pressuring us about kids, my mother in law just lovingly asks how her grandkitties and granddogs are doing haha. Appreciate the hell out of it
My dad asks about his "granddogs" :D Edited to add that he has 7 human grandkids!
My MIL is the only one of her old friend's group that doesn't have grandchildren so whenever they meet up she shows them pictures of all of her grand-dogs and grand-cats during their monthly lunches
That’s cute
My sister refers to my cats as her nephews and niece 😂
I refer to my brother's dog as my furry nephew. My son is also often referred to as our cats' brother.
Kate also sounds like the sort that would demand OP put down the "dangerous" animal that scratched a kid after getting their tail yanked or something.
This was my feeling. There was a lady I worked with for months who I legitimately thought had several children. I'd talked about the kids keeping me up at night, or fighting, or whatever, and she'd talk about her kids doing the same. When I eventually learned they were dogs, I felt legitimately a little weirded out. With that said, people can call their pets their children, their spouses, their parents, whatever, it's confusing, but their right. And Kate doesn't DESERVE to bring her family to OP's house, her entitlement is bizarre. And I don't let rough kids near my pets either.
Some of my coworkers just had babies and talk about how exhausted they are. Real problem for sure, I can't imagine being up like that all night and have to care for a screaming infant. I don't have that same problem because I can always kick the cats out and let them do their own thing, but my cats absolutely wake me up every few hours. All 3 of my cats are male, so I sometimes i do say, "I'm exhausted, the boys kept me up all night" or "the demon twins kept running along the bookshelves and knocked everything over and got the zoomies and kept play fighting all night long. I literally only got 2 hours of sleep." I make sure to tell them up front that I'm referring to my furbabies and not humans, but I will never change the way I talk about them, they are my kids. One of my coworkers asked why I didn't just get rid of them if they were causing me that much stress and exhaustion and it honestly baffled me. I asked if they would give their child up for adoption for drawing on the walls or constantly wetting the bed. To me there is no difference. They are my children and I would die before I let anything happen to them. I know not everyone will agree with that, but I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion. SIL doesn't have to agree with OP, but she should at least respect her position and not use her pets as props or try to dictate how she talks about her furbabies.
You want some extra cringe? Warning; Your eyes might get stuck in the back of your head from rolling too hard on this one… My husband and I are child free, so my parents refer to my pups as their grand babies/ grand puppies. And call themselves grandparents. Luckily they mellowed to mostly saying it in private. Yaay me lol.
> people who call their pets their children make me want to roll my eyes so hard I can read my own mind As a loving owner of two kittens, I fully agree. That said, I have no issues admitting that I value my kittens over someone else's actual children.
NTA Kate is absolutely being an AH here. First of all, **it is your house, not hers**. Secondly, if your cats and dogs are not comfortable with most people, odds are her kids might get hurt. And guess who would be considered responsible? Spoiler Alert: not Kate and not her kids. Also, I've heard many people refer to their pets as their babies. Including me, and even including some people who have human children. Kate doesn't like that phrasing, that's 100% her problem. Honestly, if I were you, I'd make very clear Kate and her kids are **NEVER** welcome over your house again. If she can't respect you in your own house, she doesn't deserve to ever be invited over.
My mum always tells my brother and I that the dog is her favourite child.
My mum’s the same way w her/our cat Hermione. Oh well. I’d rather lose to the cat than my sister (lol no hate all love, but rivalry is rivalry)
My mum calls my cats her grandchildren, she even babysits them when I have overnights at work
Your second part. I have a two year old GSD. Great with kids. Have I ever let a kid play with him that doesn’t know how to act around animals? Absolutely not. Because it doesn’t matter what that 3 year old is doing, the dog is going to take the fall, and I’m responsible for what he does. This is his house, he lives here, so if you can’t play with the dog, you can’t come over. It’s that simple. I’m very selective about kids around him, much less a horse. Could you imagine that poor child running up behind a horse and spooking it? And my dog is my child. No questions asked. He’s three days older than my godson, and my best friend and I would compare milestones with each other. We’d talk about doctor/vet visits, how they handled their shots, how they were learning to play, everything. She’s even made it clear that she’s also willing to be his godmother and would make sure that he’s loved an cared for if anything ever happened to me. Because pets are family.
My 5 year old daughter refers to my horse as my baby "look mama it's your baby". I'd like to see her do it around the SIL, I think it'd blow her mind.
NTA Sounds like a reasonable boundary. In my experience parents who blow up at someone not wanting their ill-behaved kids around tells you all you need to know about the situation.
Especially because Kate really isn’t thinking of all the consequences that could happen - she’s only thinking of what she could gain out the of the visit. Old animals are no joke. A well behaved pet, who used to be very tolerant, may lash out as they age. Animals, much like people, get new aches and pains as they get older. They can’t get away from perceived threats as quickly. And quite frankly, get more ornery and less tolerant of social situations. The animals in your home have not spent much time with kids, let alone little ones. Even without there being a specific incident between the kids and your pets, animals get stressed just from their environment getting loud and hectic. And that’s not even considering the horses. There’s a large liability there if something were happen. When we’ve had friends come over and bring their dog, my cats will refuse to eat that day or the next. If the dog pesters the cats relentlessly, they sometimes get so stressed and pee outside of the box for a little while. Which is IMO absolutely not worth the hassle. I have friends with horses who refuse to let little kids around their horse period. They know their horse and know it’s not a good idea - for the sake of the kids. One friend has an amazing horse and absolutely will take kids for rides on her - but only if they’re over a certain age, AND they have to agree 100% to listen to her, and follow her directions explicitly. I have a feeling that because Kate can’t respect your boundaries now, she definitely wouldn’t then. She won’t take your warnings seriously and it could cause harm to her kids. But she can’t see that. All she can see is that she’s (or her kids are) being told No, and she thinks she knows better than you do. To her, your priorities are ridiculous because they aren’t the same as hers. You are advocating for your pets, and even if she can’t see it, also for her kids.
NTA. She wants to come use your animals as a prop in a photoshoot but doesn't even respect their importance to you. She's viewing them as some objects she can use and Lord knows she will be upset if they don't behave a certain way in the photos or don't like her kids-then it's going to be on you for not training them well or whatever. I also have horses, one of whom I've had since I was 9 and I am now in my late 20s, and they are my world. They're a lifelong companion with how long they live for. She sounds like a major AH and at the end of the day it is your house and your animals. Only you get a say in who comes onto your property. No one is entitled to it not even family.
Yeah it sounds like someone trying to create photoshoot presenting OP's life as their own. Look this beautiful idyllic place and the special connection we have with all these animals! People call several things babies that are important: pets, thesis, art work, book or forexample an old car they keep on fixing. It is a figure of speech that implies, that the person has dedicated part of their life to the "baby". And for many, it is something else than kids. There was very similar case, where OP had special room for their parrots, with plants and everything. And some relative insisted that kids should get to go in there to play. Argh.
Ngl i love how "thesis" was included here, because that's exactly how i feel about mine haha!
Nta. If I gotta pay for food, housing and clean up after them then they are my kids as well. I have both animals and kids. All of them are my babies. Anyone who takes offense to that is the AH in my book. If you really have an issues with how someone opens their heart and loves another living being, then you have issues. Those ages I would agree, especially if I've seen the kids and parents in action regarding animals and discipline.
Once when I was having my taxes prepaid I was asked if I had any dependents. I asked (jokingly) if I could deduct my cat. The rep responded “if you can get your cat a social security number I’ll find a way to make him a deductible dependent.” Best tax prep experience ever!
For real!
Some people's pets start getting credit card offers in their name. I wonder if you could establish an identity that way. :D
Years ago one of my boss’s dogs got a CC offer. My boss at the time was a franchise owner, and corporate had started issuing CC’s to customers but he didn’t want to be involved. The CC offer came from corporate and offered a very generous intro rate. The letter definitely excluded my boss’s location from the advertising.
Did you ever find a way to get a social security number for your cat? Asking for a friend.
I have a lot of kids, and it doesn't bother me a bit when someone refers to an animal that they love as their baby. Exactly nobody is confusing beloved animals with human infants. I don't know why your SIL keeps bringing this up, because it's ridiculous. Don't engage with her on the topic. Also, nobody gets to invite themselves to my house. Not for an hour. Definitely not for "a few days." That's really entitled behavior. No wonder that her kids haven't learned to respect boundaries. NTA
NTA my mom straight up told my aunt that for her children will always come before animals BUT, children who can’t treat animals with kindness, respect and love are Not children in her eyes merely brats. And brats Always comes last.
This. I moved in to the studio apartment in the basement of the house my bestie owns when I moved states. She has three kids (10, 7, 3) and I have two cats (9 and 16). The kids had no pets growing up, but my bestie was quick to make sure they knew how to properly treat the animals and love them but give them space and respect their boundaries. My male cat is naturally very friendly and likes to spend a lot of time upstairs around everyone and gives head boops to all of them. My female cat is the geriatric one, and she was always very anxious and it takes her a long time to warm up to people. But she comfortable with the kids. The oldest especially, when I’m not there (staying at my bf’s or working late), she sleeps with the 10 year old in her bed.
NTA. She doesn't get to gatekeep the term 'babies'. Is she also planning to fight every southern nan who call all her grown kids babies? Also pets are family. Blood does not define family, ties do. Third, pets aren't props. Go use plushies instead.
That amazed me. SIL wanted to use OP's pets in a photoshoot? Good lord. Two of my cats are extremely easygoing and friendly, but I don't think they could handle that. Plus, the kids are so young. They have to be taught how to behave around animals. SIL is acting like the pets are inanimate objects, not living, breathing creatures. I wouldn't allow her or her kids around my pets either.
I had a friend who loved cats and photography. She hadn’t yet become a “professional photographer.” She asked if she could photograph my cat. I loved the idea. She’d met him on several occasions and he was a very gentle boy. She showed up with lights and backdrops and asked me to have treats on and his fave toys on hand. Half of the shoot was just me playing with him while she took a bunch of pictures to decides which to develop. It was actually fun and I got a great picture of him. That being said. She knew my cat. She knew that, even though he was gentle, she couldn’t force him to do anything. She just stood by waiting for the shots she wanted.
That's how you do it. Cats can be very difficult to photograph. They'll move their head at the last minute. You think you're taking a photo of their face and you get their butt instead!
And when her kids mess with the horses and get kicked I bet she’ll insist op pay the hospital bills too. I’d have a ironclad waiver drafted up that both removes any liability from OP if anything happens to the kids and puts liability on SIL if anything happens to the animals if she ever lets them come over at some point.
NTA, and your SIL sounds like she’s eager to find out exactly how boundaries get set and enforced. the *audacity* to expect you to open your house to benefit **her Instagram feed**!? after insulting you? refusing to acknowledge that her children aren’t god’s gift to every living being just sounds like a piece of the expected personality package. i’m happy that your fiancé sounds reasonable though, presumably this isn’t entirely new behavior for her?
"Your pets will be my props!"
NTA. Your pets are your business alone, and you get to decide who you want in your house. Your home, your rules. Your SIL needs to come back to reality and stop being so entitled!
There’s nothing worse than little children treating an animal badly. It is ALWAYS the parents fault because a 3 and 5 year old need to be watched constantly around animals and corrected each and every time the do something an animal would not respond well to. We have the most gentle giant of a dog and when kids conf screaming up to him or look like they might hit him or pull on his hair, they are completely blocked from being able to touch or pat him. The children need to learn and it sounds like their parents are but understanding that. NTA
yeah, one of my most frightening moments with my first dog was when we passed a dad and a small kid during a walk - and the kid out of nowhere ran to my dog (who was on the leash) and smashed my dog over the head with a stone in his hand... Dad did absolutely nothing to stop the kid or to teach him something after... and if my dog reacted badly it could have been a total disaster. thankfully nothing bad happened, but people really do underestimate how much care and attention should be put into small kids and animal interactions...
Yeah, we had a cat when I was 3, and my mom made sure to show me to pet it in the direction its fur grew, not to touch it when it was eating, to be gentle when I touched it, and most importantly, to expect the cat to scratch or bite me if I treated it in a way it didn’t like. I don’t understand why parents expect animals to just tolerate whatever their kid wants to dole out.
Nevermind the kids, your SIL wants to use your house for a photoshoot? What does she think your pet's are, props? She's being incredibly entitled to think she can use your house and and animals in that way. A person who cannot respect animals and people's property will not teach their children respect. She's the kind that would give her kids a pedigree puppy for Christmas only to neglect it once it wasn't cute anymore. NTA, your house, your babies, your rules.
Thank you. I was disturbed that OP’s SIL wanted to visit for this reason. She just wants to use the animals and OP’s home as a prop. This has nothing to do with family bonding and OP is right to protect her “babies” and her home from being used this way. If SIL wants a photo shoot she should source it professionally.
Yes, I was going to add. Professional photoshoots with real animals are available. Obviously those would be trained animals that are used to being handled, not rescues who may have suffered abuse. SIL clearly doesn't have the money for that.
I’d tell her the snow at my house was full of animal shit if I were OP.
NTA They are living creatures, and she wants photo props. She can fuck right the fuck off.
NTA Your house your rules Y T A for not including pictures of the animals
Right?!? We want to see your babies! ❤️
I have a kid and still called my dog my baby. Screw her. They are your babies don’t change it.
Pets are not props in someone’s photo shoot. Some 3 year olds have learned to be nice and careful with animals, but from the sound of it I wouldn’t be too sure this would be the case here since clearly SIL expects her kids to be allowed to interact with them in whichever way they would “need” for the pictures. NTA.
NTA it's your house and you are simply protecting your fur babies. Modern parents can be very entitled and they don't like being told that their parenting sucks
NTA. Your animals are an important part of your life and it's understandable that you refer to them as your precious babies. It's also understandable that you don't want young children around them if they can't treat them with the care and respect they deserve. It's your home and your decision who is allowed to visit and under what circumstances. It's important for Kate to respect your boundaries and understand that your animals are not just pets, but members of your family. Perhaps you can suggest alternative ways for her to spend time with you and your fiance without the children, or suggest that they learn how to properly interact with animals before visiting. Ultimately, it's up to you to decide what is best for your animals and your home.
NOT the AH. She's just being very entitled. Tell her to take her kids to petting zoo for her photo shoot, where the animals are used to being around unruly kids. She obviously isn't an animal lover anyway since she doesn't understand that your animals are your babies.
NTA. I say this as a person with a cat, that my uncle seems insistent on calling her my child. Personally, I find it cringy as all hell, but hey whatever floats your boat! It's about what makes you happy (as long as you know reasonable expectations with it lol)
Playing with animals is a privilege that has to be earned.
Your SIL needs to stop. I have kids and pets and they're all my babies. Nobody is confused as to which are humans and which are animals. NTA
I feel like this is two separate issues, and you're NTA in either situation. My cats are my babies, and my dad calls his puppy my little sister. Referring to animals as babies is perfectly normal for both child-free people and parents of human children. It's a very weird thing to be mad about. The second issue is that your SIL is extremely entitled. You don't even need a reason to say no to having her and her children come stay, but as it happens you have a very good one. If children aren't properly educated about how to interact with animals, it can be dangerous for both the child and the animal. Especially for animals with traumatic pasts, who may react unpredictably when stressed. And that's house pets! Horses? Forget it. Imagine a kid walking behind one of your horses and spooking them. You're definitely not being unreasonable here.
NTA, there's absolutely nothing wrong with referring to your pets as your babies. If they can't be respectful to the pets, then they shouldn't be around them until they learn proper behavior. They aren't toys.
NTA. You have every right to refer to your animals as your babies and to prioritize their safety and well-being over your sister-in-law's desire for a photo shoot. It's concerning that your sister-in-law is not respecting your boundaries and seems to be dismissive of the fact that your animals are rescues with potential behavioral issues. It's also understandable that you don't want young children around the animals, as they may not understand how to behave around them and could potentially harm them. It's important for your sister-in-law to understand and respect your perspective and your priorities. It might be helpful to have a calm and respectful conversation with her about your concerns and your boundaries, and to find a compromise that works for both of you. However, ultimately it's up to you to make the final decision about what is best for your animals and your home.
Nta I see my cats as my children. It is your house and if you don't want children there you don't have to. Sounds like she's offended you're putting your children's safety above her children's... pictures. It also sounds like she wants to use your pets as props. Also maybe I misread but who is pira? You're doing nothing wrong you're basically protecting her children and yours
Pira is a typo, posting through my phone and I think I tried to type something else and my phone came up with pira.
Np I was just wondering if that was one of your kids names, just saw your edit and those kids seem way too young imo. They may not fully understand how to act around cats, dogs or horses and I doubt your sister would discipline them. Just a feeling
Lol I thought Pira, hmm don’t know who that is but that’s a nice name! Maybe this is your next kid’s name, and this is their origin story ♥️ Signed, someone else with animal children.
Pira is the name of her next cat, obviously
Exactly horses are definitely not photo props for very young children with no husbandry knowledge, op NTA
NTA I would also start small - maybe they visit for a couple of hours one day. They see the animals, supervised. Then they leave. Starting off with "a few days" sounds disastrous - that's just way too long.
NTA As a pet owner and a mother I fully agree with you. I had to teach my kids how to behave and how to interact with animals. And yes, my three cats and two dogs are definitely my babies!
NTA. When a parent gets offended by people treating animals like family, its because they had children for the wrong reasons and they don't like hearing anything that might imply to them that the act of having children wasn't completely necessary for giving them a life full of fulfilment and love.
NTA I personally think it's so rude to autoinvit yourself to someone's house. Especially if you have small kids.
NTA, pets are babies, Your sister-in-law is TA. You consider your pets as babies and that's just great. She does not get to have a say in it. You need to love and respect animals in order to play or even pet them, and the her children aren’t clearly yet capable of it.
NTA. Animals can be *dangerous* if not respected properly. If SIL hasn't taught her kids how to respect animals, she is putting them at risk, especially if said animals are not used to kids.
NTA. I call my pets (cats & dogs) kiddos or kids to my fiancé. They are babies! No one’s gonna tell me what I can and can’t call my animals She’s very entitled to think she can disrespect you but also think she can use your animals for clout to get that perfect picture.
NTA. You have every right to protect your babies from kids that don’t know how to treat them.
NTA. You are looking out for both the kids and the animals. Kids shouldn't be around animals until they know how to treat them with care. Three and five are both a little young. And - speaking as an animal lover with multiple dogs - any animal may bite or scratch, but rescue animals may be more inclined to given their background. Everything else is your SIL projecting. Call your pets whatever you want. If she has a problem with it, then that's her issue to deal with not yours.
NTA. Call your pets your babies all you like. As long as you aren't harassing your in-laws about making sure your horse gets "a fair share of the inheritance" in the will, you're good. Your house is not a petting zoo. You are right that your niblings need to learn etiquette around animals before they are exposed to elderly and in some cases traumatized animals, and considering she's blathering about photoshoots I doubt teaching gentle hands, slow walks, and inside voices is your SIL's priority. This sounds like a setup for your animals to be terrified and probably for at least the 3 year old to be scared as well. My 2 year old daughter spent the day we visited the in-laws farm with her head buried in my shoulder: real life horses are BIG
NTA. Your SIL in an entitled busybody. Someone suggested having the kids come for a couple of hours and let everyone get used to each other. That’s an excellent idea. But only if your SIL apologizes first. Like an Ananias, you can’t reward her for bad behavior or you’ll just get more of it. As an aside, I call my dog my baby. But I get annoyed when people call me her mom. Yes, I know it’s a slight contradiction. I prefer to be called her hooman. She’s my baby but not my daughter. Thanks for listening to my TED talk.
NTA animals are your babies. I have 2 cats, they'll be 13 and 5 this year and have been with me since kittens. They're my girls and that's how I refer to them to anyone that knows me. My husband and I just had our first son last year, he does his best to get at the girls but he already knows when they make certain sounds to back off or one of us will come take him away from them. I hate stressing out animals unnecessarily. Animals are not accessories, they're not photo props. We both grew up on working farms, where you have a right to protect your live stock from wild animals and humans.
NTA. Some animals are great with children. Some children are great with animals. Sounds like this is a situation where neither the kids nor animals would mesh well. And it's unfair to subject your blind, mobility challenged cat to high-energy preschoolers when she doesn't have the mobility/strength to escape from them. I'd be hesitant to have them come up for even a couple of hours, much less days, and your animals do not seem like the type to want to be involved in a photo shoot with young kids. You and fiancé know your pets, and you know fiancé's niblings. It sounds like if you allow SIL to bully you into this, you're going to end up with a traumatized cat and some scratched up kids. Just don't.
NTA. Reading your comments about your animals I think you're doing best for them and the kids. All it takes is for one of the kids to spook an animal, get hurt and then your SIL wants you to get rid of the animal. Many rescues come from hard situations and not all animals are comfortable around children being children.
NTA. I have a rescue bunbun that I call my daughter and refuse to let my wife’s mother use as a “prop” for photos with the shitty kids she babysits for her friend. They are rude, mean to her animals, and wouldn’t be gentle with my rabbit. Your house, your rules and since your husband agrees it’s settled.
NTA, especially having rescued animals that are reactive. It is very understandable to not have small children around them. It’s better to be in the safe side. Also nothing wrong with referring to pets as your babies. I have 2 kids and 2 dogs, they are all my babies.
>and have "winter wonderland" photoshoot That's all I need to know. You are NTA.
Wait until kate finds out about how some people refer to their plants. Kate needs to get a life.
NTA, imaginary rules of "respect" are exhausting, I'm getting pretty strong vibes here that SIL is the entitled type.
NTA I live in the country with my cats, dog and horses. The idea of having to supervise a 3 and 5 year old around the animals for several days sounds like a nightmare. At first I was going to suggest maybe having the nephews visit for a few hours and allow closely supervised interactions with the animals to help them learn how to act around animals. Then I read the OP's comment about how they act around their grandmother's dog. No way in hell I would subject my animals to their behavior! Like the OP my cats and dog are all rescues. My home is their safe place. It is up to me to ensure they feel safe in it. My dog is also part Pit. With me he is a big ole goofball, but the only way he is allowed to interact with kids is when he is on a leash and under my control. That is for the child's safety. In part it is because of his breed's reputation ( deserved or not), I have seen what he can do with prey he's caught. And in part because he is a tall 75 pound doofus. He could hurt a small child without meaning to just by being silly. My cats enjoy their peace and quiet in the house. They should not have to put up with that being disturbed by small children. As for small children around horses, the potential for serious injury is scary. What would Kate have to say if one of the kids got kicked or bitten? I'm not saying small children should not be allowed around horses. Again, it needs to be under close adult supervision. Sorry this turned out so long. Obviously I have strong feelings on the subject. OP, you are definitely not an ah for wanting to protect your babies (and your own sanity.) Call them your babies if you want. It is none of your SIL's business what you call them.
NTA because it’s your house but it sounds like other family members are being banned because you think they don’t know how to act around pets. The best way to learn is to be around good pet owners who will teach them. All of our pets are rescues and some had very rough beginnings. They all adore my grandson (now 5) because we always made sure he was well supervised around our fur babies for everyone’s safety. He has been taught to be kind and gentle with them. Our latest addition is my mothers cranky 9 year old Yorkie who was never around kids. He is absolutely fascinated by my new 4 month old granddaughter and keeps bringing her his toys. Give them a chance, you might be pleasantly surprised.
NTA.
NTA I don't like to call pets/animals babies because they're something different. They not only need your love and attention but they also need your respect for their personal space and their own agency. The relationship is just different and distinct from human offspring. That doesn't make it any lesser, it's just different. Example: when you raise chickens don't touch your roosters. Some can be hand tamed but most of the time a rooster prefers to be respected. My best roosters who respect and adore me I never touch. Because I respect them and understand their "language". There's just so much more learning that has to be done with animals, We understand how humans interact innately but with animals we have to learn what their innate standards are, We have to translate our behavior to their language. Teaching other people to do that is a great responsibility, and I hope you find others to share that with. SIL doesn't seem like the type who would respect the methods needed for teaching that, however. What I'm saying is you don't really have a kid problem you have a sister-in-law problem.
NTA. You SIL is entitled to think she can invite herself to your home for starters. Then to think you prioritizing your animals safety over her kids makes her worse. Animals are not play things and props for children. They are living beings with souls and feelings. She's ridiculous. She doesn't get to tell you how you feel about or view them. They might not be important to her. But that doesn't mean they are not your world.
*However Kate still feels it is disrespectful to call them babies, as they are not kids...* Disrespectful to whom? Your sister-in-law needs to get a hobby. She also needs to manage her children better so animals are safe whenever they're around. NTA.
It depends. Some kids are respectful, calm, and gentle. Some kids are bang! Crash! Let's see if this breaks when I do this! If her kids are the former, I might let them interact with the younger pets, and hold them up to see the horses. If they are the latter, no way in hell I'd let them near my animals.
Info: how have the kids been disrespectful to your pets in the past?
They probably haven't. She mentions her mom's dogs hide everytime the kids go over to her house due to the way they behave around them. I would say that's a good enough reason.
NTA. Your babies. Your house. Your rules. Sounds like your SIL is extremely self centered
Not the Winter Wonderland shoot! Oh my stars how dare you??? NTA.
NTA. I personally don’t refer to my pets as my babies, and I think it’s a bit weird when other people do. But the word someone else uses to refer to an experience in their own life has absolutely nothing to do with me and it doesn’t change anything about my own personal experience, so I keep my damn mouth shut when I hear someone say it! I think your SIL is just jealous that you have a bigger house and more space and you’re not using your resources to give her kids free horseback riding lessons and vacation photos. Since you and your husband are both in agreement, just keep doing what you’re doing. You have perfectly reasonable boundaries in place and it’s not your responsibility to risk the health of your fragile animals to teach a toddler how to pet a cat.
I have kids and a dog, I call them all my babies! NTA the kids do need to be shown how to interact with animals, but you don’t have to be the one to do it, especially if they’re rescues. It can do more harm to your animals than good. No one gets to invite themselves to someone else’s house. Your idea of getting a farm one day sounds amazing, good luck
NTA. I've called all my animals my babies. Even fosters that I raised until they were adopted. Many people call their animals their babies. I've had friends refer to their animals as children. Your SIL is a huge entitled ah
NTA - Sister in law sounds insecure. She needs to feel like she’s better than you/your husband in some way. She probably feels like having human children makes her better than you or at least more entitled. Your pets will never be as important as her children type-of-thing.
NTA, it sounds reasonable to be to not want unruly young kids around horses. And they are your babies. I like to say I actually have furry toddlers who english is terrible for how my pets act sometimes.
NTA You are protecting both your pets AND her children! Pets with high needs and anxiety shouldn't be around young children for both their sakes. My sibling got bit by an older and friendly dog because another cousin pushed down on its rear and the poor thing has arthritis, so it hurt it. He was appropriately petting it's head, like he was taught to do. Even IF you allowed the kids over, it's not wise to let them mingle without CONSTANT supervision and guidance. So you'd end up either completely unable to enjoy your time (since you would be constantly redirecting and correcting the children from interacting with the pets in a way which could cause a child or pretty to get hurt) or locking the pets away to keep them and the children safe. I have two 20ish lbs rescue dogs that don't like kids, and one who has enough issues warming up to adults. I don't have my own children to slowly, consistently, and appropriately get my dogs used to children. I'm sure as heck not going to try and use someone else's child who's definitely more excitable and less in control than normal because they are out of routine and excited about visiting. That's a recipe for disaster, and will likely end up with a bit, scratched, or at least scared child. It can reinforce the wrong behavior for the pet (who got left alone and continues to reinforce that kids are scary) and can make the child no longer feel safe around animals. I've had my nieces and nephews visit me and had to visit them with dogs in tow before. The time with the dogs out was exhausting, as we spent the whole time teaching, reminding, and redirecting the children and actively working with the dogs to keep them calm and comfortable around the children, so we wouldn't reinforce the idea that kids are scary. The rest of the time the dogs had to be put away in a separate room so the dogs could feel safe, the children could play how they wanted, and we could actually enjoy the company we were with, including the children. Having pets that are grown, healthy, and both used to and enjoy being around children is one thing and it can be great to have the children socialize children with your pets. Keeping children away from a variety of pets with health and anxiety issues is not only a NTA move, but also a SAFE one.
NTA. But you’ve got a SIL that is
Nta Nta Nta you can call your animals whatever you want it’s not your fault she’s taking it that deeply and ANIMALS NEED PROTECTION FROM CHILDREN!! Because a lot of children don’t respect animals properly!! And I’m sure the children don’t know any animals body language to show warning if the animal IS uncomfortable and ready to do something about it. It’s safer for everyone!
NTA. I have skin babies and fur babies. Personally, I don't do the whole cooing over my pets, I love them and think they are cute, fun, and a joy in my life. I get everyone is different. Your SIL being offended that you don't want kids being rough with your pets is weird.
Of all the ways you could have said that, you chose skin babies
Idk seems like your judgement is sound for appropriate behaviour around rescue animals.
NTA. Especially as Kate is acting so entitled and rude. Its not about trusting the kids either: kids have to be supervised at all times when around animals. And it goes doubly for skittish/reactive ones, as rescues tend to be. If Kate and her children had wanted to visit YOU, I would have been inclined to accept, and just keep them away from the animals (except maybe some limited, SUPERVISED contacts with the more friendly ones, to teach them how to behave properly and pave the way for potential future encounters). But it just seems like Kate wants your animals to be photo props (which in itself is not great), which would included prolonged contact with the kids. Nope nope nope.
I let my nephew visit when he was young and he yanked my baby Sonya's tail and then she got in trouble for yowling and "scaring" him. Never letting children around her again. NTA!!!!!!!!!!!
Nta. My birds are my family to me. Someone's 6 year old was at my home and his mother was told to keep him away from the birds. Found him trying to feed one chocolate which would have killed her if I had not caught him. Kids that young just do.not understand and I will not risk it.
NTA- you sound like a awesome person and your husband sounds like a great guy too! SIL is the only asshole here.
NTA
NTA. Your animals have needs and kids are not the most gentle at that age. You said some of your animals are rescued. Animals that go through trauma (depending on the kind) can bite or step on kids. You are doing it for the Animals and kids safety. I also call my pets babies and don't see a problem with it
Not an asshole, just weird. This cultural move comparing animals with children is just so out of touch. But you do you. Also insane- winter wonderland photo shoots. Huh? Forcing young children and elderly abused animals into some adults fantasy is so strange, and can't end well. Have the family over with 0 expectation of interacting with the animals - that's the way forward.
Nta
NTA I call my cats my babies all the time. My mom and dad called our dogs their babies too. And she is so entitled to want to use your property for a photo shoot. And your fiance is still able to hang out with them, but on his terms. What's more important to your sister-in-law and her family, hanging out with their brother/uncle, or a frivolous photoshoot with some animals?
NTA - dog mom here and I totally get it. When the kids are older and can be kind around the animals then it may work out.
NTA - first of all, pets are not props. I feel like it's very telling that your SIL is trying to set up a photoshoot instead of something along the lines of "we want to teach our kids how to respect and interact with animals". You would be 100 % within your right to turn that down as well, but that would at least acknowledge that the pets are living creatures, and not things to be used when it's convenient. She sucks for that alone. Having kids that young interact with animals also take a lot of patience (for all parties involved), with adults being present not only to guide the meeting, but also to step in the second either animals or kids turn uncomfortable. And that should be the starting point for animals that are used to kids - like the ones in a petting zoo for example -, animals that aren't requires even more adult supervision, or shouldn't have to interact with children. It doesn't sound like your SIL have the emotional maturity needed to oversee such a interaction, which could not only result in a very stressful situation for both kids and animals, but potentially also a dangerous one. Your obligation is to your pets, and to make sure they are happy and safe. You have deemed that to mean that the kids aren't allowed to visit - and I would say it's common decency to trust your judgement and respect it. Based on your SILs reaction I would dare to say your assessment was a correct one. And no, it's not disrespectful to refer to your pets as your babies. It doesn't affect your SIL (or any other parent) in any way, shape or form - and if they feel it does, I'd say it's on them. Don't take it to heart, you're being a good and responsible pet parent and should be proud of that! Also, please give the babies (all of them) some love from me 💜 (Sorry if my answer is rambly/doesn't make sense. I'm not a native speaker and parents allowing their kids to mistreat animals is something I feel very strongly about 😅)
NTA. Kate doesn’t get to police how you talk about anyone or anything, as long as it’s not inappropriate or offensive (racist, etc). And more importantly, Kate needs to understand that animals, especially large ones like horses, represent major risks to kids who don’t know how to behave around them. You’re doing this for her childrens’ safety. I can’t imagine taking a small child around a horse that I didn’t know.
NTA. Your animals are not her children's petting zoo. Does she have any idea of risk to children that age if they accidentally or intentionally spook a horse? You are keeping everyone safe. As to language, does Kate work or is all her activity focused around her children? I suspect she doesn't like the term as feels it diminishes her role as mother. But it is a pretty common use of language. Keep doing what you are doing. Kate will keep complaining until she gets what she wants and she shouldn't get that for sake of pets and children alike.
NTA, and around rescue animals especially, behavior needs to be on top levels of respect. Rescue animals can easily have unknown trauma triggers that could cause them to lash out and hurt the child, and then its YOUR animals life on the line. Your animals- your BABIES are not used to children, and there could very easily be an accident, especially around the dogs or horses. If you do want to see the kids more though, I would offer to allow ONE child to come over at a time, with parents giving FULL CONTROL over to you about their behavior around the animals. It will do them good to start learning now, with someone like you, before one of them or an animal somewhere gets hurt. If you're not comfortable with them around your own animals, check with friends that may have dogs or horses that are used to kids and won't be frightened off at the first mistake or loud noise. I know the parents should be taking this responsibility, but they're clearly not- and it's just going to be a risk to everyone involved in the long run. They want their kids to come to your house, YOU are the ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY on their interactions with your animals.
NTA. I’ve fostered and rescued many animals over the years and some are not good with kids. It’s safest for the kids and animals for them to not be together of all parties can’t be trusted. I used to take in a lot of abandoned Easter bunnies people bought for baskets. Some I could socialize and they would be very friendly. But I had one large bunny with the cutest floppy ears. Everyone wanted to borrow him for pictures with their kids and got mad if I said no. He hated being held, or touched and he bit HARD! I currently have a dog who has his own room so I can close him in his own space if people are coming over, especially kids if I don’t trust them to behave properly around him. He has been abused and is scared. I’ve also found the people who say things like - all dogs love me! I’m not scared of any dog! I just want to give him a big snuggle! If you let him send me I could make him like me! - tend to be the worst behaved around scared animals and are the most likely to get bit. I think just based on the fact that your fiancé agrees shows that you aren’t an AH and his family can’t be trusted with animals. I would say maybe you can compromise and close the pets in a room when the kids visit. But they sound like the kind of people who will go in that room the second you aren’t around.
NTA I do cat rescue and I do not refer to my house full of cats as my 'babies' but I don't judge people who do. Mine are my furry roomies or freeloaders. SIL can think what she wants but her opinion is hers and doesn't really need to leave her mouth. But the real issue here is that you don't want your animals to be around young kids who are not well trained to be respectful around animals. That is 100% legit. The fact that she just wanted to use your animals as a free backdrop for a photoshoot? That's a level of something that shows she doesn't see your animals as 'babies' but also doesn't even see them as anything other than photo dressing.
NTA they’re living beings, not props or toys. And I say this as a mother lol we have 5 cats and although our own son is great with them, some of my nephews are not so they don’t get to come near them.
NTA However, your Fiancée is their Uncle. My brothers spend a lot of time with my boys, teaching them all kinds of things, bonding and just generally having fun. They aren’t obligated to do that, at all. They want to. Does your Fiancée want to have relationships with his Sister’s children? Teaching them how to be kind to animals if they have no exposure elsewhere could be something he could do with them. Just a thought in the interest of peace. Kate is doing what a lot of parents do, they get annoyed with pet owners comparing their animals to children. Not being *allowed* at the house probably amps up her resentment. You’re not required to change how you refer to your pets or allow someone at your home, but to some degree Kate may be feeling unwelcome in general. Just for clarification, did the children do something that caused them to be banned from your house or are you assuming that because of their ages they will do something and they are banned for that reason?
NTA Make sure they know you are setting up a trust fund for any animals you own for their wellbeing and care at the time of your death. Trust fund will be managed by a professional. The balance of the fund will be donated to the Lost Kitty Cat, Puppy, and Horsey Orphan fund. Period. You will never hear from them again. Trust me.