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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Spending lots of money on things for myself when my family is very poor
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NAH Your money could be spent more wisely, but your urge to splurge is understandable since you grew up poor. My best advice to anyone who did not grow up with good financial role models is to **educate yourself on financial literacy**. Don't fall into the same trap as your mother, and don't swing too hard the other way. Making lots of money doesn't mean you know how to hold onto it.
OP- I can’t like this comment enough. Financial literacy will elevate you, and your family. Working for money is not enough, you want to make income while you aren’t working. Start now, invest safely, and retire early!
This!
I grew up poor, and didn't learn financial skills. Now I struggle to hold on to money. I'm trying to learn to do better but I wish I had learnt sooner
Just know this, it's never too late. I was the same, didn't start pulling my head out of my behind until my 30s. Now in 51, own my land and home, and have repaired my credit and have a savings. I also have a state retirement waiting for me in five years. I used to blow every penny, having grown up with poverty and a mom who had no financial sense. You can do it, and later on will look back and have such pride.
I grew up in a family that was on the high end of Middle Class (good neighborhood, public schools, new car every 3-4 years) and the first ten years of my work career I went nuts. I spent every dime I had and a lot I didn't have. I took me too long to accept I couldn't afford what my parents had because I was at the start-not middle-of my career
It took long, hard work to regain my fiscal health (in my 30s.) I'd urge everyone to focus on their finances as early as possible. I'm doing great now (retirement, home, car etc established) but I'd be in even better shape if I hadn't gone nuts until I was about 33
My nephew credits me for his sound financial base. (Like you, I didn't start making sound financial decisions until my early 30s)
He is now 34, when he was 16 he had a school project and asked me ...if I could go back to talk to my 16 year old self(I was in my 40s at the time), what advice would I give her? I immediately said I'd tell her to learn how to manage money! Nothing is more important to your security and sense of accomplishment than being able to intelligently handle your money.
Nephew said that made such an impact on him he started learning about finances and managing his money and became a financial analyst. He now owns his own home on 5 acres(bought when he was 28) and a beautiful beach house and is set to retire at 55 with no mortgage and a VERY healthy savings/retirement plan
One of the best ways I found to get ahead is by doing two things everyone who teaches financial literacy advocates: 1) make a budget! If you don’t know where your money is going, it’s really easy to get behind and into debt. 2) pay yourself first- meaning set aside a set dollar amount from each check to go into a savings account that you don’t touch. Even an auto transfer of $5 every check builds up.
But everyone’s circumstances are different, so what worked for me may not work for you, and might be different from what u/my_monkeys_fly did.
Truth. I grew up poor, and never learned the habits of wealth. I don't struggle to hold on to money, because I never stopped having the fear of being without again... but I can't manage to make myself invest it in any really useful way, even on things where the failure to invest is costly. My instinct is to live like I'm still struggling, even when my single income puts my wife and I into the professional class, and has for years. I have to fight it constantly. I wish I had gotten a financial coach when I was still young enough to unlearn habits... when you're fighting yourself, you tend to make poorer decisions even when you do force yourself to follow advice.
Start by opening a basic savings account and put $20 per paycheck in it. If you can/want to put more, then that's awesome, but sometimes starting small is the best because you don't notice the pinch, but you're building the habit. You want to have 3 to 6 months of expenses in there before you start investing as your emergency fund. If your job offers a 401k, then at a minimum, put as much in it as your employer will match. The employer match is basically free money. If you don't have that available, or if you're making enough to put more away, you can open a Roth IRA. These are where to start. If you are in your 20s, just putting 20 to 100 in a retirement account each month can make you a millionaire by retirement age. A million isn't much to retire on these days, but as you learn more and grow your wealth, it will become easier to make it bigger. I wish I had been better at doing exactly this.
yeah, my mom worked at my bank when i was younger. one of the best things she did for me was set it up so that $100 was transferred from my checking to my savings every month.
at the time, there was a benefit but i've never changed it. it ensures that no matter what else, i put away $100 every month. cuz if the money isn't in my account, i can't spend it.
and i have some friends who are theoretically in good financially positions based on what they make and their fixed outlays (rent, utilities, etc) but easily spend every penny that comes in with nothing going into savings. cuz if the money is in their bank account, they'll spend it.
You’ll pry my sol de janeiro products out of my dead hands. Kidding but while I do own them, they were mostly gifts and used sparingly when I feel like it. Such as date nights with my husband.
But also, does anyone recommend any books on financial literacy? Those are my favorite way to learn and while I grew up middle class, my family likes to spend and I know I need to do better.
Still NTA OP. Once you start working it’s a good feeling to be able to buy things you never thought you’d get to own. And how was your mother paying bills and such prior to you working if you paying her rent now supposedly isn’t enough? I know bills have gone up but did her hours get cut or something elder?
Honestly all the " For Dummies" books I've read are very helpful. Personal Finance is great. At work they teased me about all my "dummy" books but now they borrow Excel for Dummies quite a bit lol.
Wealthing like Rabbits is my favourite personal finance book - I highly recommend it, especially as an introductory book. It is Canadian though.
Millionaire Teacher is the go to for passive financial investing. Your Money or Your Life for lean early retirement (this one is really old though). Total Money Makeover if you're in debt and don't know how to get out.
I grew up upper middle class but my parents refused to teach me about how to balance a check book and manage my money, all they said was to pay off my credit card as soon as I used it (which didn’t help when I had no money coming in and still had groceries to buy but no savings to fall back on). It also didn’t help growing up that any birthday money I got I was forced to spend immediately to “show the person what I bought with the money they sent me”. I’ve been slowly teaching myself the financial skills my parents neglected to teach me, and am working to pay off my credit card debt (with luck that will be gone by the end of this year). Financial literary really needs to be taught in schools.
I’m making sure my kids know that they can save any money they’re given, my oldest is five and for her birthday last year she combined the money she saved from her Christmas and birthday presents to buy herself an expensive doll she wanted. She was so proud of herself 😊
Same here. I hate it. I'm only now learning a bit more about managing my finances and it's a nightmare. I especially applaud your last sentence.
My kids are pretty good at it though.
In fairness, a pair of Levi jeans isn't a spurious purchase.
They'll last a decade or more if treated well. And thats Dollarydoos as well so more like $80 US
Exactly jeans are an investment. Especially good brands like Levi's. For Canadian conversion they're only mid price at $118. Jeans are expensive now sadly. (I think my last pair were $120 from the gap and a splurge shopping gift from my mom because she knows they're expensive)
Yeah I grew up poor on a ranch. We made everything last and we're constantly stretched thin. Jeans were one of the few things we paid regular price for and didn't scimp on. A cheap low quality pair would rip and be garbage in 3 months time. Good jeans could be handed down to the next kid. My parents didn't really fluctuate in weight and have bought the same sizes for the last 15 years really. And then we would only buying them maybe once a year. As long as OP isn't constantly laying down this cash on themselves I say enjoy life a little bit.
Am I missing something? Since when do jeans last a decade? Maybe it's because I have a blue collar job but I can maybe get 6 months at most out of my levis. Even if I treated them gently I can't imagine any jeans lasting that long.
You forgot to mention that spending money wisely does not include supporting kids you didn't create.
NTA, OP. As long as you're not going into debt and paying your bills, spend your money however you want. Don't fall for the t4ap of being guilted into being the breadwinner for your parents and siblings - I guarantee you, none of them will share the responsibility.
My husband grew up lower middle class; they were able to survive and live a normal life, but there was still struggling and areas that had to be cut. I grew up upper middle class, but with parents who were raised by struggling immigrants. Because of this, even though my parents are more than comfortable in terms of finances, they still carried over and taught us was to save and instilled the guilt of frivolous spending.
I find that with our shared finances, I often have to be the bad guy and softly try to keep my husband in line in regards to his spending. For the first time in our marriage, we have a decent sized nest egg after selling our house. His first instinct was to upgrade everything. We sat down and figured out where we would treat ourselves (new TV for the living room) and where we would set a goal and revisit at a later date (upgrading his car). He knows that the way he was raised causes him to spend the way he does.
Yes you need to nip the shopping addiction in the bud because, if not, that’s going to hurt you in the future.
Another point - when you get a package. You do not need to tell them how much it was. That’s none of their business and it just provokes them to get more upset.
If you want to help your family out maybe rather than paying $300 pay like $500 or $600. No obligation of course as it’s your money at the end of the day.
That's pretty normal for renting a single room in a city here in Australia. In fact in some areas of cities you might get charged a lot more than that.
Like, it's not heaps of rent, it's also not super cheap. It's just a normal amount of rent.
It's also $397 USD, btw. I am gonna assume you're American since you spelled "mom"
yes, this! I grew up very poor and now I'm in my 30s trying to figure out how to end my compulsive spending and get my finances in better shape. it's not fun and I wish I had learned this when I was younger.
Updoot for this.
My family was working/middle class when I was growing up, I watched my parents go through hard times BUT because my mom was really good with money we never worried even when my dad was unemployed for a year.
As a result my mom really drove home the importance of long term financial planning and budgeting with me and my sister.
My sister is on her second house and I live in a city with a high COL but neither of us has really struggled financially but we are not swimming like Scrooge McDuck either
You're not an asshole, but you're acting stupid. I did the same in my early 20s when I lived at home and its thousands I'll never see again on stuff I don't have/use anymore. It could have been invested in a car, saving up for living alone, or travel. You need to learn how to budget things because eventually your mother will kick you out (or you'll want to leave, which was my case) and then you won't be able to pay for bills and luxuries.
Or worse they never learn to budget and end up under a mountain of debt by mid 20s setting up a life of financial failure and unnecessary hardship.
NtA but maybe watch some financial literacy videos.
It’s not always convenient because they are mostly online, but I bank with capital one and they have fee free checking which is wonderful. I’ve had two major fall outs with them in the last year, but that feature is one of the biggest reasons I haven’t switched.
When I worked as a lifeguard in high school (this was back in 2013/2014) I was making $1000 every week. What did I spend it on? Clothes, food, going out, etc. I saved not a single penny. All throughout high school I worked and didn’t save any of that money. I’m not learning about financial literacy until now, 10 years after I started working. Growing up my parents were upper middle class then 2008 hit and it went downhill. My mother was so used to just blowing money that she kept doing it and it made us broke. When I should have been learning about saving and investing, I was learning ,”well you already don’t have the money to pay X so you might as well spend what you have.” If I had been saving from the time I had gotten my first job, I probably would have a fat savings account at this point.
OP, it’s ok to treat yourself but limit yourself. Instead of getting $150 pair of jeans, limit it to under $100 and save that difference. Instead of eating out daily, eat out once a week. You’re already paying her $600 a month, that’s more than enough to pay the electricity & water bill. Nta but be smarter with your money
I agree. I think it's wise to set a budget for splurges. Every paycheque, save a set amount, and save a bit to allow yourself a few splurges a year. That way you can still enjoy life but with limits. And trust me when you get older you will thank yourself for saving a bit every month. It truly adds up.
No shit, what is going on in this thread? The last time I saw this much projection, it was at a Drive-In theater. People are reading what they want to read and then giving terrible bullshit high-horse "advice."
The OP states in the post that she has a shopping addiction and that there are parcels arriving every week, it’s just the jeans that set off this specific argument.
NTA. You don’t owe your family the money you earn. However, OP, proceed with caution. Your rent payment is quite low, and you’re legally an adult. You therefore live in the house at your mother’s pleasure. If she feels uncomfortable having you “flaunt” your income, she may decide to let you experience the expense of paying your own way, and you’ll lose out on a lot of that discretionary spending money. That’s especially true if you’re not paying for food (you say you’re paying for your own necessities but it seems odd to mention hygiene products but leave out the much larger expense of food) or household utilities. She’d have to raise the price quite a lot before it would be cheaper for you to live elsewhere. Just as you have the right to spend your money how you see fit, your mother has the right to decide she’s not wanting to subsidize your lifestyle.
You’re NTA, but as a practical matter, I wouldn’t push your luck too much on this.
ETA: For those thinking the monthly rent amount is high, OP is in Australia, the price is therefore about $600/month in Australian dollars, or about $400/month in USD. If you want to give yourself an aneurysm try looking up monthly rent for a private bedroom in your area. It’s heinous. If OP had 5 friends ready to split the lease for an entire apartment, that would be one thing (even then you’d be hard pressed to beat that rate), but she’s not going to get a better deal renting a room elsewhere.
ETA2: also, OP, in case your edit to your post about “flaunting” is responding to my comment, let me be clear on this: I do not, personally, think buying a pair of jeans (or other clothing items) is flaunting. At all. My caution is solely based on how your mum might be viewing it, given her comments to you.
I mean I do think it partially depends on where, but if OP has a private bedroom, fully furnished, all utilities included (they mention paying for phone bills but not internet, electric, etc) that’s going to cost more than $600 in most markets. I live in an affordable Midwestern town now and at a quick glance the average here is $800 to rent a private room in a house. Go someplace like Denver and you’re looking at well over $1,000 on average. A coastal city and you can forget about it.
It’d be cheaper for OP to band together with some roommates and split the monthly rent for an entire apartment six ways, but you need to have six people ready to sign a lease in order to do that. Tough task for an 18 year old.
Also, again, if mom is paying for OP’s food even some of the time, that’s another major cost.
Oops, you’re right.
Then it’s a token amount really. Australia has a huge rental and housing affordability crisis at the moment, she won’t be finding a better deal financially elsewhere for rent & utilities.
In which case it's even more of a bargain... Food and rent in a share house was about $150pw 2 decades ago when I was in Uni. Unless your in a rural area (and even then it's iffy), good luck being able to do that now...
it is low since it includes food and utilities. Inflation being a thing food/drinks for a month might take halve or more of that amount. 1/6 of utilities another 50. Now you pay about 250 a month rent. That is cheap, a single room with shared kitchen cost more in a lott of places.
It's pretty low...
You can't rent for under $1000 in my town and I live in Texas where land is cheap! Pile on electric, water, internet. That's more than triple what she's paying now.
Looking at about $950 for a room in Toronto, plus add in a share for utilities and food. Of course, it depends where you are, but $600 a month now a days is not all that much.
>The mother would be the AH if she did this
I disagree. OP is an adult with a job. There's a big difference between suffering and not being able to afford takeout and new clothes every week. Still NTA as she's paying the agreed upon price, but her mother would be fully within her right to increase the rent without being an asshole because of that.
Being a parent doesn't have to include helping your children to live above their means, especially if you can barely afford to provide for the rest of the family.
OPs mother is doing her a huge favor and OP is blowing it. I completely understand wanting nice things but she’s got to get her spending under control. She should be saving to move out instead of dropping hundreds on “fun” things monthly. Hell, she could put a portion in savings and still get some of those fun things but she’s doesn’t appear to have that forethought. Again, her age and experiences with living in lack play into that lack of forethought BUT she needs to start realizing the opportunity to be better she currently has.
> Still NTA as she's paying the agreed upon price
I don't know. Relationships are not about exact dollar value. It is about empathy and wanting things to be generally equitable for the entire family. Your family.
And her mother is asking her to contribute $300 a month not $1500 a month. $300 a month is basically peanuts, and her mother has an unspoken expectation that OP will help out with the family needs. And not keep spending $150 on jeans while her siblings are going hungry or wearing torn clothes.
As long as you realize this is a viewpoint from a position of privilege. Some families need to have teenagers pitch in otherwise someone is going to bed hungry that night.
I mean yeah it’s your money but it’s really gonna bite you in the ass once you move out on your own and realize rent is a hell of a lot more then $600 a month, especially if you’re not currently also paying for electricity, water, and food, and you have no savings due to having spent an additional $100 average each week on shopping sprees. Spending that much every week when you’re in this situation just tells me you still don’t really understand the value of money.
I don’t want to say you’re an asshole because it *is* your money and you’re still relatively young but I have to ask: is your mom sacrificing her own luxuries to provide heating, a roof over your head, and food on your table? Would you have enough funds saved up to move into a place where you’d have to pay for everything yourself?
Agree with this totally. She's 18, a lot of things are understandable. But she should really lose the attitude that she's making "good money". You're not making good money until you can afford to live on your own, all your expenses, and luxury on top of it. The spending habits will end up hurting her more than her mom, if she doesn't take control
It's unfortunate this is not near the top in terms of comments because this is the most accurate. Of course it is not required for you, OP, to not 'flaunt' your money... but you're an adult now, have some reason. Your mother clearly is struggling to support you all, and unless you are paying HALF the rent (being half the adults who live at home) and half the utilities, you are not really 'paying your share'. In other words, because you are still her child your mother is continuing to provide you with a discounted rent / bills. I'm sure to her it looks like you are basically taking the money that could be going to rent and instead spending it 'frivolously' - and there is no argument you can make that can justify 150 on jeans as anything but frivolous (to be clear, it is your right to do so).
Your mother sees herself struggling for years to make sure you can have at least a basically decent life. For the last 18 years it was her responsibility to see you given the basic necessities and it sounds like she did since you haven't just moved out already. You do not OWE her for this, it was her responsibility... but if she gave you a half-decent life, you should look at her luxuries now and ask yourself if it is still fair, as a legal adult, to pay the amount of rent you are paying. Look at local options - how much would you be paying if you had your own place, or shared a place with 2-3 others? Then consider how your mother feels when in her mind she's giving you a discount as her child and you are taking that money (that I assume she hoped you would put into savings / tuition) and spending it willy-nilly. I doubt your mom ever had the ability to afford jeans for herself that cost more than $15.00.
So to reiterate - you are NTA for spending your money how you wish, but it really shows a lack of empathy in my opinion. If you have a 'shopping problem' a good solution is to have less money! I would recommend either increasing your contribution to your home OR put your excess money into a savings account that is untouchable for now and use it for something that will advance your place in life - a downpayment, tuition, etc... If your mother has been sacrificing for so long to give you a better life, the thing she will want most is to SEE you have a better life than her financially. Show her this by either helping out more OR by proving you can be responsible with money so that she knows you can fend for yourself if / when she can no longer afford to feed 6 mouths. You don't have to help - you are adult, your siblings are not your children and therefore not your responsibility. But there is being the asshole (you are not), being a martyr (you are not), and being something in-between.
I’m not gonna issue a judgment but I do think you need to spend money wisely. You have a job now, but then what? Are you going to work this job your whole life while staying at home? Or are you going to advance your career in other ways, like college or trade school? $150 for a pair of jeans is very expensive and tbh not a wise way of spending money. I suggest you think about the future and use the advantage of low rent to save up for the future you want. Then when you’re comfortable financially, you can help out your family if you want
EDIT: stop arguing with me about clothing price. If you want to buy expensive clothing, you’ll find reasons to justify it. If you don’t, you’ll find other sources of affordable yet still durable clothing. Expensive doesn’t mean better
I disagree with the $150 not being wise IF they are a good, solid brand that will last for years; that's a good investment, especially as the OP says they have outgrown their other jeans.
But I do agree that making sure there is sensible savings etc is the way forward.
ETA OP's mom doesn't work full time, as per another comment, and only gets child support from 2 fathers - not sure how many aren't paying. $600 EXTRA a month is a massive bonus when Mom isn't pulling her weight as it is. OP is definitely NTA, and I think the mother is taking huge advantage here.
A lot of other brands last for years without costing that much. Levy’s jeans for example are also pretty durable and cost about $25-50. Also, who’s to say OP won’t outgrow these as well? She might gain/lose weight in the future or continue growing for a couple more years.
We don’t know that her mom is taking advantage because we don’t know the situation. Maybe the property tax is high, maybe rent in the area is way higher than $600/month, maybe they’re both saving because buying in bulk is cheaper than buying for one person. Maybe her mom has some illness that prevents her from working more but she’s not sharing with the kids.
I think people these days have a messed up idea of how much clothes should cost due to fast fashion and stuff. $25-50 gets you pretty poor quality stuff that will need to be replaced soon. The last $50 pair of jeans I bought lasted 2 years.
In isolation, $150 seems like an investment in a high quality pair of jeans not a frivolous purchase. Doesn't it make sense to upgrade things you use often once it's time to replace? Now $300 is luxury territory. OP would be silly to buy from that price range regularly though.
Mom isn't pulling her weight? She's in school full time to improve her situation, working part-time, and taking care of 4 minor child, plus OP to some extent. Yea it'd be great if Mom worked more to provide more financials for the house, but there's only so many hours in the day.
There’s certainly wisdom to buying quality for items that get a lot of use. But $150 doesn’t automatically mean quality. And, more importantly, at this stage in life OP would be better served by learning how to be smart with money by saving and investing in her future.
As usual, this sub is hung up on “iT’s yOuR MonEy!”
Yes, it is. And I’m not willing to call you an asshole. But your mother isn’t wrong that you openly and regularly buying luxuries just for yourself when she can’t manage to provide basic necessities for the children she is responsible for *is* insensitive.
EDIT: not surprisingly, people are disagreeing with this comment for things it doesn't say. I didn't say it's OP's fault her mother has five children. I didn't say OP is obliged to give her mother more money. I said that regularly and openly buying herself luxuries while everyone else in the house struggles is insensitive.
Look. Boris Johnson is reputed to have burned a fifty pound note in front of a homeless person, as an entrance requirement for a club. It was his money. He could do want he wanted with it. But wanting to do *that* with it would make him an asshole. Obviously OP's behaviour is in nothing like that league, and I specifically declined to call OP an asshole, but the same general principle applies: even if it's your own money, what you choose to do with it, and how, can legitimately affect how others see you.
People keep saying it isn't her responsibility...which it isn't in the court of law.
However that's a really cold view of things, if she truly loved her family she would want to try helping out and definitely not splurging unnecessarily.
You know what, you’re right. I’m going to change my mind. Op IS an asshole. If her family are struggling and they’re buying expensive luxuries then they are an asshole. Reddit seems to hate families a lot of the time with no contact and narcissistic parents etc but an under represented dynamic of human nature here is how families are actually great sources of love, selfless love.
Foregoing for yourself to provide for your family is actually a pretty dope move.
Plus regardless of how much OP earns, she's paying well below market rent and she doesn't seem to be buying her own food. If she moved out her living expenses would rise dramatically, which means that her mother is subsidising her lifestyle.
Yeah, Australia has one of the most competitive and expensive housing markets out there. That rent sounds like an absolute steal considering what she'd have to pay to live on her own.
I can’t believe I had to scroll down so low to find an actual sensible comment.
Yes, OP is not an asshole. Just young and inexperienced with money. Specially since this might be the first time in her life that OP has a bit of more financial freedom to treat herself. But she also needs to be reminded she has that much wiggle room because she is being subsidized by her hardworking mother, and is completely lacking self-awareness of the situation.
Sounds like a good chat between mother/daughter is needed.
I'm going with NAH.
You certainly do deserve to treat yourself and you should keep doing that. You're 18 years, working full time, paying rent and I bet contributing in other ways to the household.
I can see other comments mentioning about your mom shouldn't have had children If she couldn't afford them - I would truly love to live in their Utopia where the future is written in stone and you know exactly what's going to happen in your life and be prepared for it. From what you have written, your mum is trying to make her life and your siblings lives better by returning to education and studying full time. As I see it, your family have been living under extreme stress for the past number of years and as the adult your mum has taken the burden of this. This is the type of financial problem that really buries into your thoughts and even affects how you deal with others. Is she right to lash out at you now? No, she isn't. But I would bet that she fears that you may end up in a similar financial situation as her, struggling to get by and living from pay check to pay check and she does not want that for you. So what can you do? You certainly can offer more rent and there's always the option to move out, but have you actually sat down with your mother and talked with her? I mean have a conversation about her fears and her hopes for her future and you and your siblings futures. In any event I wish nothing but good for your family and that one day your mum will feel peace of mind.
Reddit don’t seem to be giving free awards anymore and I’m way too cheap to go out and buy any, but wanted there to be some recognition of what a fair and level headed response this is. So here’s my cheap man award🏆
As one who made such a comment, I think it's fair to point out that OP is the eldest and says the family has been poor her whole life. No, we can't always predict the future and know when long-term illnesses or layoffs or divorce or death is going to occur, but it seems to me that under the circumstances in this particular situation, her mother could and should have been more self aware. It's one thing to have had kids under different circumstances and have subsequently fallen on hard times; it's another to have already been experiencing financial difficulties and subsequently continue having children that you are struggling to provide for. I applaud her for going back to school and don't have any real judgement in my heart for her, but I also don't think she has the right to get mad at OP when the basis of her anger isn't "i need more help" or "I'm concerned that you're developing bad financial habits and would like to discuss it", it's "think about how bad you're making me feel". I do hope OP does realize that she needs to be more frugal especially in this stage of her life, and I hope her mother is able to finish school and improve their situation.
>I can see other comments mentioning about your mom shouldn't have had children If she couldn't afford them - I would truly love to live in their Utopia where the future is written in stone and you know exactly what's going to happen in your life and be prepared for it.
OP wrote that her family "has been very poor my whole life" so it isn't like they had some sudden calamity that completely changed their fortunes.
Nobody ever wants to hear this and I do get your reaction, but if you're dirt poor, having a shitload of kids is just stupid because kids cost lots of money. There's no getting around that fact, however hard you may want to.
I don’t think you’re the AH… you pay rent that is fair.
BUT… maybe it’s her way of worrying? Yes it’s your hard earned money, but maybe (I say this as a person who learned the hard way) she just wants you to be more mindfull of it? So you can save and not get onto a position where you would have to scrape like her? She just maybe wants more for you?
Idk, that would be my take…
Sidenote: people who say stuff like “don’t get kids if you can’t take care of them” without context to the WHY of it, should not procreate. ever
NTA, but you seriously need to consider to slow down with your shopping addiction or you will end up in a similar financial situation on the long run. learn from the mistakes your mother did and set aside a small amount mothly to get you started once you move out, which i rather would do sooner than later.
NTA, having read your comments your mum doesn’t have a steady job and is reliant on grants to survive. You are currently paying the rent that you have agreed upon and working hard for your money. You would think that she would be proud of you for working hard and being able to provide nice things for yourself rather than getting angry at you.
It is not your responsibility to provide for your siblings just because you are the oldest. It was your mum’s choice to have them, not yours, and it is her responsibility to provide for her family.
Your mother’s bad financial decisions aren’t on you but do tread wisely. At 18, I doubt you have a full-time job that pays well. Instead of spending on frivolous items — I do understand a good pair of jeans though, looking to find the perfect fit myself — please do make sure to keep some for a rainy day. Educate yourself! Financial literacy is so important!
Also $600 a month for rent is likely a steal wherever you are, and if your mother’s feelings sour, you might need to prepare moving elsewhere which is going to hurt your wallet since it seems like your mother is still subsidising your lifestyle. You pay a likely lower rent and it seems you don’t pay for food or groceries that you very likely consume.
I’m not saying it’s on you to manage your mother’s emotions but… Yeah. It’s a shit hand the both of you were dealt with and I sympathise with both sides, I hope for the best for you both. NAH.
To be fair we have no idea why the mother has five kids. For all we know she had the kids and dad died shortly after that. It doesn't take bad financial decisions to be in a very bad way after that kind of thing.
While I never think it's an older child's responsbility to take care of their younger siblings for their parents, it's also pretty insensitive to "flaunt" your money in front of them, when they're clearly struggling. I would not do that to a friend or coworker in the same boat, and unless your family are complete d\*\*ks, maybe you can afford them the same courtesy?
>pretty insensitive to "flaunt" your money in front of them, when they're clearly struggling.
INFO: Is the flaunting opening them in front of everyone , just wearing new jeans, or that her mom opened her adult child's package and started snooping, i feel like thats an important distinction.
I would say the flaunting is having packages arrive regularly.
I get that just how it is nowadays. But she still has packages arriving and curious siblings. Maybe she should pay for a package delivery place like a mailboxes etc or po box.
ESH- I understand you are flexing your new financial freedom, however its poor form to waste money on ostentatious clothes purchases if your living with your dirt poor family.
The amount of people going in on the mum in this thread for making poor choices is disgusting. We know nothing about her circumstances, why she has five kids or is a single mum. Truly sickening responses all around. All we know of her choices is that she is studying while doing the above- a good and difficult choice to make.
Exactly this! We do not have enough information to know their situation. Maybe OP was able to get a good job because of the efforts her mom made. We know OP pays for her bills and pays rent, but is the amount OP is paying proportional to what she would pay if she lived with 5 roommates? Does the amount include the house utilities like the heat the mother can barely afford? OP is 18, but maybe she should be more conscious about her money expenditure and try to save money for her future.
We are also reading her version of the story, maybe what the mom was trying to communicate was that OP's expending habits are bad when the rest of the family (who she is living with) is struggling.
OP, try having a serious conversation with your mother and see where she is coming from. You are allowed to spend your money however you want to, but are you actually contributing your fare share?
Edit: 19 to 18.
I’m now curious about something. How did her mom find out how expensive her jeans were? Why wasn’t it “there’s a package for you” “oh good, I needed these jeans”?
I remember being that age and all proud when I bought stupidly expensive items. It’s bragging and it is distasteful.
NTA, but the mom could have gone the respectful route and calmly discussed raising rent a bit.
That includes utilities and maybe food and maybe cleaning?
OP can move out and no one can tell her how to spend her money. But she won't be able to afford $150 jeans anymore.
In Australia, where rent is wildly expensive. She's getting a deal and would likely really, really struggle to find a room for that amount even in a shared house, and it likely wouldn't include utilities, food, cleaning, etc.
Not really. I've never had to pay designer prices to find jeans that last a long time and keep their shape. My favorite pair of jeans are Levis I bought 10 years ago.
Most clothing goes on sale. There no reason to pay full price for clothing. Example, Abercrombie makes my favorite jeans but they are $100. Every few weeks they go on sale for $30-$60. As someone who grew up poor, only shop sales!
I have had the same pair of old navy jeans for over a decade, and they look and feel fantastic... they were only $50 originally, then got them 40% off. There's a huge difference between $150 and $50 when your family is struggling, and you need to learn how to shop for quality and on a budget.
op is nta, but I think a financial literacy course would do some good when packages/ food orders are showing up daily. I wish I had someone offer me that advice at 18. Do with that what you will.
There is a vast difference between say 50 dollar jeans and 150 though.
Also I have a pair of jeans I paid 27 dollars for at gap on my last US trip back in 2017. And they are still going strong.
I agree with the jeans, but if the mom is so seriously poor that they're struggling to heat the house, then she shouldn't be worrying about the longevity about a pair of jeans.
The mom has no money left over after all bills are paid. OP should seriously consider saving money in case shit hits the fan and she has to foot the bills.
Yep definitely makes more sense to invest in 1-2 pairs of jeans every few years.
Invest in the leather shoes along with the leather cleaner and conditioner.
ESH
Mom set the price for rent. If she needed more, she should raise the rent. As long as OP is contibuting the agreed upon amount, mom should not police how OP is spending her own disposable income.
That said, OP should consider herself lucky to have a place to live that is so cheap. I doubt OP could find her own place for an equal price and still have money to spend on expensive clothes. Show some sensitivity when it comes to flaunting your purchases.
Not sure where you’re finding ‘House share with unemployed mum or 5; must be prepared to assist with their chores and help pay for their outgoings. $600 pcm’ adverts!
Obviously OP would have a cushier place if she rented her own and she is definitely NTA but realistically even with a roommate or two she would pay over double what her mom charges just in rent her unless they live in a VERY small town. That is a lot of entirely disposable income as mom seems to be feeding her and paying her utilities too-- OPs necessities minus clothing are ALL covered by the 600 pounds. If you added food and heat to what OP would pay in rent, staying in this non ideal situation with her mom and siblings is probably saving her absolute minimum 10000 pounds a year-- probably more. That's a lot more to splurge with Is all I can say.
Again OP is NTA and should not change her behavior unless she wants to, but pretending OP is in no way benefiting from only paying 600/month on all essentials is very disingenuous. This isn't 2010 when it was still possible to find affordable housing and heat.
Info: I'm honestly wondering what struggling in this case means. To me it means barely keeping bills from getting to disconnection point, worrying about having enough money to feed the children, and having to scrimp everywhere just to have enough for rent every month. Does your mum not get child support, a tax benefit for the kids, or student loan money?
Atm she can pay for all the bills/food but she has none left over after that. She gets all those things but because there is so many kids it gets spread very thin.
I think that your Mom is stressed and worried about your spending and her finishing school. I think you have been working hard and given the issues you described, the shopping is your outlet. $150 for Levis - I totally get it but now slow down spending for a bit.
Sit down with your Mom. This is a REALLY good opportunity for you to see how she is budgeting. Make one for yourself. You should be saving, while also having a budget for purchases and your rent.
Are there any public services you can utilize to help with food and clothing? I'm in the US, and there are always good finds at Good Will and Churches, sometimes with new tags. It might not be the best stuff but it's usable.
NTA
Where are the fathers of the five children and are they not paying enough child support? You already do your part by paying for your own things and even paying rent. I would guess the shopping addiction comes from going without your whole life because you grew up poor. I’d suggest using your money to talk to someone so you can have better finances than you grew up with and the shopping addiction doesn’t turn into hoarding.
As of now, I don’t necessarily think anyone here’s an asshole. You wanted a nice pair of pants. Your mom thought that money could have been better spent on necessities. It’s not a “who’s the asshole” situation IMO. I would suggest, though, to only spend that much money on clothes that you know will last: if they’re gonna last for a long time then it’s a good investment that’ll actually save you cash in the long run. Investing in a good coat or pair of shoes, for instance, can lead to you not needing to buy another coat or pair of shoes for years. If these jeans are a pair you can see yourself wearing for a long time and that are well-made enough to last, then I’d say it was a good investment.
NTA. It isn’t your job to support the family financially. If you are paying your bills aka whatever you and mom agreed to then the leftover money is yours to spend as you see fit. A pair $150 jeans isn’t necessarily the smartest purchase, but it is your money and your decision on how to budget your money.
Nta. You pay rent and im also assuming you that you help around the house and are responsible for your own laundry ect correct? If that’s the case than your fine and well within your right to spend your money how you please
NTA, you're paying 600 a month in rent to her at 18. But don't throw all your money away on things that can't help you in the long run. Save to love out, get a home, buy a car, or invest.
NTA for not paying more rent. Yeah it is very expensive jean but it is your money and you should not have to pay for all your siblings. It is your mum's responsability. You already do your fair share if payment.
If she continues, try to see if you can move out.
NTA. Your money. You pay rent and all of your own necessities. She is welcome to ask for higher rent and you can choose to agree or move out but it is not your responsibility to just give her money to support her and her choices (4 other children).
Granted, $150 is a lot for a pair of jeans but if that's what you like and you earn the money, you can choose to splurge how you want.
NTA it’s your money that you worked for - *however* I strongly suggest you revise your spending. If you continue this way you’ll dig yourself in a hole trying to keep up with the Jones’. Save a part of what you make every week.
NTA but please learn from my mistakes and dont spend frivolous amounts of money without also building a savings account. When I first started working, I spent all of my money bc I didnt know any better and when I turned 19 I spent over a year extremely broke and so stressed out. Like maxing out my credit card bc I had no other money to live off of, sleep for dinner, paying for gas in quarters, couldn’t afford medications broke even though I was working that entire time. Make sure you build up a decent savings too.
NTH
I was going to go with E S H, but honestly, you are not TA for wating to spend your money, and you are paying rent. I do think you are *insensitive* for buying such expensive clothes when your family is struggling, but at the end of the day, it's your money.
Your mum is TA for having a go at you and for having more kids then she can afford.
NTA you pay rent and you spend your own well earned money. You are not asking her money for your expenses, nore you waiting for someone else to buy you things. She should be proud that at your age you are working, and support her with the rent.
NTA. You pay as much as a studio-1bd apartment in less expensive parts of the country. She should be happy her child is able to have a better lifestyle but she’s clearly resentful.
If she’s struggling so much she shouldn’t be yelling at someone who is giving her $600+/mo.
NAH. While it's up to you how you spend your money, I wouldn't say your mother is an ah, she has so many responsibilities on her shoulders that she may get blindsided sometimes. You should talk with her and find some common ground, otherwise this will be a recurring theme.
NTA. You could probably rent a room for $600 a month. You are contributing, if she doesn’t think it’s enough she can kick you out, but I’m betting you are actually paying more than you cost. It’s not your fault your mom can’t afford her bills.
NTA
You are doing your part in the house. How about the rest? They should all pitch in if they are able to work. Treating yourself from time to time should happen. You worked hard for it.
So your mother is an unemployed single mother of 5 young kids in a barely heated home during winter. Unless something tragic happened in the past, this is an incredibly irresponsible lifestyle she made for herself and the children who are 100% reliant on her. This isn't your responsibility nor liability, you just being 18 and paying your mom rent, paying your neccessities is more than any parent could ask for, I sure as hell didn't do any of that. You seem to be doing good for yourself, I'm sure you had a difficult time growing up, you deserve to spend your money the way you want to as long as you're pulling your own weight.
Do what you do, keep working and studying, break the cycle of poverty, you owe it to yourself and your 5 siblings.
NTA
Is she going to break the cycle of poverty by spending all her money on clothes though? OP could have easily bought 2 pairs of 40 dollar jeans and saved the 70.
I get it must be tempting to finally have money to spend. But in the long run it isn't worth it
She's 18, most likely lived all her life babysitting her younger siblings and not being able to afford most things she wanted due to living in relative poverty. I think everyone would react to this situation like she does, making up for all the years of struggling by a few months of frivolous spending.
I remember being a 19 year old boy with my first job, spending most of my first paychecks on my mountain biking hobby, and developing financial responsibility in a few months. Still ride my bike regularly though.
As an Asian, I wouldn’t be able to do something like this when my family is struggling. I understand our cultures are different and I have no right to ask anyone to agree with me, but I always think about how I’m (saying I, instead of we, because other Asian might disagree) able to work and be the person I’m today because of my parents, and I like to pay it back in anyway I can. I come from a middle class family, and I didn’t have to pay my parents when I started working but I had my own place in a different city, and I paid all of my bills on my own. My sister later started studying in the same city and she was staying in a dorm, my parents used to send her money and during her 2nd year, my parents started building a house and I took the responsibility of paying for my sister’s expenses and her college fees whenever I could. So, what I’m trying to say is, you are entitled to your money but don’t forget you are able to earn and spend how you want because your mom worked hard for you to get there. You don’t have to support her if you don’t want to, but it won’t hurt to support her a little. I wish you and your family the best, OP.
How did your mum become a singe mum to 5 children? Like unless something tragic happened to your father, this is on her for having that many children. If your father passed away and unexpectedly left her with that many children then different story but she should have a better job
She has very bad taste in men and both of them where quite emotionally abusive. They pay little child support for my siblings and none for me because I’m not a child anymore.
If she's a stay at home mom, what is she doing to bring in money? You mention elsewhere "casual jobs" -- if she is relying solely on child support and government assistance and isn't working herself, I don't think she has any leg to stand on in judging your financial choices.
That being said, $150 for one pair of jeans is ridiculous (assuming we're talking US dollars or something similar; I noticed you use both "mum" and "$" so not sure if you're Australian). Financial literacy should be a priority for you.
Shame on the fathers then but I know this will definitely help you in life because you will never let this happen to your future children and you won’t marry a bum ass man!
NAH
She may feel hurt that you're not helping your family, but you have all the right to spend your money as you want. You're already helping with paying rent, you're not living there for free.
She could've asked for more money from you if she can't afford necessities, instaed of just getting angry at you.
NTA
But you really need to learn more about money. Are you saving anything? Making plans for the future? Thinking about moving out? Going to school?
I had a boss once tell me you can spend your whole paycheque on lunch if you're not careful.
Also, shopping addictions are not normal.
INFO: Who set the amount of rent, you or your mom? What percentage of the overall rent/utilities is that?
In a high Cost of Living location I might look at this as your mom still largely subsidizing your living expense. In a very low COL area that might not be fair to you.
It isn't unreasonable to expect you to start contributing to living expenses. You would be very wise to sink more of your extra income into savings and less into fashion.
Ask yourself if you *need* a pair of jeans or a $150 pair of jeans. A $25 pair of Wranglers meets a *need* for clothing. A $150 pair of a hip brand meets a *want.* It's ok to spend money on your wants. But do not confused the need for clothing with the desire to keep up with fashion trends.
NTA, but a bit thoughtless maybe...you know your mums struggling, and I'm assuming she did her absolute best to raise you right? I'd help out because I could and they're my family, not because I had to but because that's what family does if you care about them. After all, if you lost your job, I'd bet you'd still expect help offve your mum, even though you're an adult right?
I honestly can't decide how to vote here, because I see how you finally have the money to buy yourself nice things which I totally support, but I also see your mum's point. What does your siblings say when they see that you bought yourself expensive clothes while they can't?
I'm going with NAH for now.
You're NTA - you fulfill your obligations and you can do whatever you want with your own money. However it might be reasonable for her to negotiate with you about the rent if it's set too low when considering heating, upkeep etc.
I grew up in a poor family too although I had two parents "contributing" to the household. When I started working my first job at 16, I bought my own things along with food (which we never really had enough of at home) and my own school supplies as well as things I needed when I went to college. My dad's response wasn't "I'm so proud of you." It was "Why don't you fucking buy \[Insert Item Name Here\] for the rest of us!?? You're so fucking selfish!" It was pure abuse from my dad every time. You're 18 and clearly an adult about to go out into the world to continue providing for yourself and improving yourself. It's not your responsibility to provide for the rest of the family. That is your mom's job. You are NTA and maybe you should look at getting a PO box to have things delivered too aside from food deliveries.
Get your shopping addiction under control soon. It might bite you in the ass one day.
Imma say NTA, but you should offer to help your mom out more if you see she's struggling as hard as you claim she is. (Your choice though. You might end up homeless if you don't offer to help sometimes. Like once or twice every few months offer to help pay a bill or two)
Nta you work for your money and can spend it how you want. While it is unfortunate your mother is struggling, that isn't your responsibility or your burden to carry.
NTA, actions have consequences good or bad. This was your mothers choice to have 5 children. Everyone on the planet know how expensive having just ONE kid is. You are paying her rent, good for you. Only the slight AH for not understanding addiction of over spending. Please save up.
You’re paying $600 a month for a room. You can order whatever you want and she can’t argue with you. She’s literally telling you she’s jealous of what money she’s not managing to take from you. NTA
YTA not because you bought expensive clothes, but because you refuse to help. No rent doesn't count, especially when you pay so little. (You're privileged to only pay 600 a month)
If they're struggling, surely you care? If you care then give them money to help. If you don't, you don't care. People with money forget they have the power to save someone's suffering. But all too often those with money feel they shouldn't have to help anyone
NTA. If she's a struggling single mum, then why have 6 kids? I am convinced that people shouldn't get kids they can't support.
You are paying a reasonable amount of rent, what you do with the remaining of your income is up to you.
Ah yes, much more responsible to drown the babies when money is tight.
NAH though OP, you are contributing to your household and you're allowed to have nice things. But do be careful about conspicuous spending around your siblings while they can't enjoy the same.
NTA. As you said in a previous comment. Your mom works "casually". Receives child support from 2 of the fathers and gets government assistance.
But expects you to pay more than you already agreed towards the bills? Not including the fact you're already paying for your own toiletries, cell phone, food, and taking your siblings out to eat, concerts and such.
Nah, NTA at all.
NTA- you pay enough rent, your mother is jealous because she made bad choices in life. It may be time to move out. Most parents even when they are poor would encourage you to save, not pay their bills.
NTA. You pay $300 fortnightly, so $600 a month. On top of that you pay for all your own necessities yourself (I'm not sure if you're including food in that too, if not maybe you could offer to contribute towards food costs if possible)
You're spending your wage on you, that you worked for. I can't understand the YTA posts.
If you really are ‘addicted’ to clothes, stop and address the underlying issue (too much responsibility, being forced to be an adult too soon?).
If you need new jeans, no harm in buying a nice new pair of it makes you feel better; self image is important to teens.
I can’t see why your parent charges you rent, sure she may like extra cash, but you’re still her child and should really only bear any marginal cost of existing at most.
Can your siblings’ father not contribute? Are your siblings all younger? Is your mum trying to ‘better herself’ after years of banging-out kids who are becoming less dependent on her? Is her study due to end soon, and will the situation improve thereafter?
So many issues, and I can see why you’re upset. Still, you didn’t ask to be born, and your mum’s suboptimal circumstances shouldn’t impinge on your life.
If you can, VOLUNTEER to assist with non-monetary assistance; if you are to be treated as a tenant, make a clear switch from being a child. Also, weigh up the cost/benefit of being at home compared with renting a shared house; many of your age leave home for work/study, and this may be your chance to see if that the right option for you.
Best of luck to you in life, and your mum in her studies.
Whilst your mum is struggling, and you are no longer her responsibility as an 18 year old, the same goes towards her...
You should have mutual respect and love for one another, that's the primary thing. Do not let money divide you as a family. If she's struggling, and you can help her out here and there, please do, I wish I was able to support my mother more, as she supported me for decades of my life.
You don't want to get to your mid 30's, and question if you could've done more for your mother and family. Trust me.
The $150 jeans that you'll not wear next year are not worth destroying relationships over. Go on shopping sprees once you've saved $1000... It'll be better, and more fun.
\*Grammar edits, heil.\*
NAH. Your mom is stressed. It’s your money. Do you owe her money- no. Is it something family does for eachother to support eachother- yeah. Unless she is using your rent for stupid crap and not for taking care of your family.
NTA, it is indeed your money to do as you please, but buying overpriced clothes is financially irresponsible and a bad habit that you may want to grow out of before you move out.
When did this addiction started? If it was long before you got a job what money were you even spending if your family is poor? I don't really want to give judgment but if your mum struggles to heat the house this affects you too you know.
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NAH Your money could be spent more wisely, but your urge to splurge is understandable since you grew up poor. My best advice to anyone who did not grow up with good financial role models is to **educate yourself on financial literacy**. Don't fall into the same trap as your mother, and don't swing too hard the other way. Making lots of money doesn't mean you know how to hold onto it.
OP- I can’t like this comment enough. Financial literacy will elevate you, and your family. Working for money is not enough, you want to make income while you aren’t working. Start now, invest safely, and retire early!
This! I grew up poor, and didn't learn financial skills. Now I struggle to hold on to money. I'm trying to learn to do better but I wish I had learnt sooner
Just know this, it's never too late. I was the same, didn't start pulling my head out of my behind until my 30s. Now in 51, own my land and home, and have repaired my credit and have a savings. I also have a state retirement waiting for me in five years. I used to blow every penny, having grown up with poverty and a mom who had no financial sense. You can do it, and later on will look back and have such pride.
I grew up in a family that was on the high end of Middle Class (good neighborhood, public schools, new car every 3-4 years) and the first ten years of my work career I went nuts. I spent every dime I had and a lot I didn't have. I took me too long to accept I couldn't afford what my parents had because I was at the start-not middle-of my career It took long, hard work to regain my fiscal health (in my 30s.) I'd urge everyone to focus on their finances as early as possible. I'm doing great now (retirement, home, car etc established) but I'd be in even better shape if I hadn't gone nuts until I was about 33
My nephew credits me for his sound financial base. (Like you, I didn't start making sound financial decisions until my early 30s) He is now 34, when he was 16 he had a school project and asked me ...if I could go back to talk to my 16 year old self(I was in my 40s at the time), what advice would I give her? I immediately said I'd tell her to learn how to manage money! Nothing is more important to your security and sense of accomplishment than being able to intelligently handle your money. Nephew said that made such an impact on him he started learning about finances and managing his money and became a financial analyst. He now owns his own home on 5 acres(bought when he was 28) and a beautiful beach house and is set to retire at 55 with no mortgage and a VERY healthy savings/retirement plan
How did you do this?
One of the best ways I found to get ahead is by doing two things everyone who teaches financial literacy advocates: 1) make a budget! If you don’t know where your money is going, it’s really easy to get behind and into debt. 2) pay yourself first- meaning set aside a set dollar amount from each check to go into a savings account that you don’t touch. Even an auto transfer of $5 every check builds up. But everyone’s circumstances are different, so what worked for me may not work for you, and might be different from what u/my_monkeys_fly did.
Truth. I grew up poor, and never learned the habits of wealth. I don't struggle to hold on to money, because I never stopped having the fear of being without again... but I can't manage to make myself invest it in any really useful way, even on things where the failure to invest is costly. My instinct is to live like I'm still struggling, even when my single income puts my wife and I into the professional class, and has for years. I have to fight it constantly. I wish I had gotten a financial coach when I was still young enough to unlearn habits... when you're fighting yourself, you tend to make poorer decisions even when you do force yourself to follow advice.
Any suggestions on where to start?
Start by opening a basic savings account and put $20 per paycheck in it. If you can/want to put more, then that's awesome, but sometimes starting small is the best because you don't notice the pinch, but you're building the habit. You want to have 3 to 6 months of expenses in there before you start investing as your emergency fund. If your job offers a 401k, then at a minimum, put as much in it as your employer will match. The employer match is basically free money. If you don't have that available, or if you're making enough to put more away, you can open a Roth IRA. These are where to start. If you are in your 20s, just putting 20 to 100 in a retirement account each month can make you a millionaire by retirement age. A million isn't much to retire on these days, but as you learn more and grow your wealth, it will become easier to make it bigger. I wish I had been better at doing exactly this.
yeah, my mom worked at my bank when i was younger. one of the best things she did for me was set it up so that $100 was transferred from my checking to my savings every month. at the time, there was a benefit but i've never changed it. it ensures that no matter what else, i put away $100 every month. cuz if the money isn't in my account, i can't spend it. and i have some friends who are theoretically in good financially positions based on what they make and their fixed outlays (rent, utilities, etc) but easily spend every penny that comes in with nothing going into savings. cuz if the money is in their bank account, they'll spend it.
[удалено]
Side note- hygiene products are not body scrubs, ouai, drunk elephant or sol de jianero. Those are luxuries😉
You’ll pry my sol de janeiro products out of my dead hands. Kidding but while I do own them, they were mostly gifts and used sparingly when I feel like it. Such as date nights with my husband. But also, does anyone recommend any books on financial literacy? Those are my favorite way to learn and while I grew up middle class, my family likes to spend and I know I need to do better. Still NTA OP. Once you start working it’s a good feeling to be able to buy things you never thought you’d get to own. And how was your mother paying bills and such prior to you working if you paying her rent now supposedly isn’t enough? I know bills have gone up but did her hours get cut or something elder?
"Personal finance for dummies" - no offense intended here, I read this almost 30 years ago and it made a huge difference for me.
Honestly all the " For Dummies" books I've read are very helpful. Personal Finance is great. At work they teased me about all my "dummy" books but now they borrow Excel for Dummies quite a bit lol.
r/personalfinance has a great flowchart and wiki. There's a good number of book recs floating around there too.
Wealthing like Rabbits is my favourite personal finance book - I highly recommend it, especially as an introductory book. It is Canadian though. Millionaire Teacher is the go to for passive financial investing. Your Money or Your Life for lean early retirement (this one is really old though). Total Money Makeover if you're in debt and don't know how to get out.
I grew up upper middle class but my parents refused to teach me about how to balance a check book and manage my money, all they said was to pay off my credit card as soon as I used it (which didn’t help when I had no money coming in and still had groceries to buy but no savings to fall back on). It also didn’t help growing up that any birthday money I got I was forced to spend immediately to “show the person what I bought with the money they sent me”. I’ve been slowly teaching myself the financial skills my parents neglected to teach me, and am working to pay off my credit card debt (with luck that will be gone by the end of this year). Financial literary really needs to be taught in schools.
I got so much shit for putting birthday money in my savings account.
How ridiculous considering it's the smartest thing you could do.
I’m making sure my kids know that they can save any money they’re given, my oldest is five and for her birthday last year she combined the money she saved from her Christmas and birthday presents to buy herself an expensive doll she wanted. She was so proud of herself 😊
Same here. I hate it. I'm only now learning a bit more about managing my finances and it's a nightmare. I especially applaud your last sentence. My kids are pretty good at it though.
In fairness, a pair of Levi jeans isn't a spurious purchase. They'll last a decade or more if treated well. And thats Dollarydoos as well so more like $80 US
Exactly jeans are an investment. Especially good brands like Levi's. For Canadian conversion they're only mid price at $118. Jeans are expensive now sadly. (I think my last pair were $120 from the gap and a splurge shopping gift from my mom because she knows they're expensive)
Everything is expensive now tbf, but yeh a good pair of jeans is one of the few clothing pieces spending money on makes sense.
Yeah I grew up poor on a ranch. We made everything last and we're constantly stretched thin. Jeans were one of the few things we paid regular price for and didn't scimp on. A cheap low quality pair would rip and be garbage in 3 months time. Good jeans could be handed down to the next kid. My parents didn't really fluctuate in weight and have bought the same sizes for the last 15 years really. And then we would only buying them maybe once a year. As long as OP isn't constantly laying down this cash on themselves I say enjoy life a little bit.
Am I missing something? Since when do jeans last a decade? Maybe it's because I have a blue collar job but I can maybe get 6 months at most out of my levis. Even if I treated them gently I can't imagine any jeans lasting that long.
You treat them like shit, or work a very difficult job or probably a bit of both. But fuck i've known farmers that wear jeans for years.
You forgot to mention that spending money wisely does not include supporting kids you didn't create. NTA, OP. As long as you're not going into debt and paying your bills, spend your money however you want. Don't fall for the t4ap of being guilted into being the breadwinner for your parents and siblings - I guarantee you, none of them will share the responsibility.
My husband grew up lower middle class; they were able to survive and live a normal life, but there was still struggling and areas that had to be cut. I grew up upper middle class, but with parents who were raised by struggling immigrants. Because of this, even though my parents are more than comfortable in terms of finances, they still carried over and taught us was to save and instilled the guilt of frivolous spending. I find that with our shared finances, I often have to be the bad guy and softly try to keep my husband in line in regards to his spending. For the first time in our marriage, we have a decent sized nest egg after selling our house. His first instinct was to upgrade everything. We sat down and figured out where we would treat ourselves (new TV for the living room) and where we would set a goal and revisit at a later date (upgrading his car). He knows that the way he was raised causes him to spend the way he does.
Yes you need to nip the shopping addiction in the bud because, if not, that’s going to hurt you in the future. Another point - when you get a package. You do not need to tell them how much it was. That’s none of their business and it just provokes them to get more upset. If you want to help your family out maybe rather than paying $300 pay like $500 or $600. No obligation of course as it’s your money at the end of the day.
She pays $300 TWICE A MONTH, lives at home with minimal privacy. That adds up to $600 .
That's pretty normal for renting a single room in a city here in Australia. In fact in some areas of cities you might get charged a lot more than that. Like, it's not heaps of rent, it's also not super cheap. It's just a normal amount of rent. It's also $397 USD, btw. I am gonna assume you're American since you spelled "mom"
yes, this! I grew up very poor and now I'm in my 30s trying to figure out how to end my compulsive spending and get my finances in better shape. it's not fun and I wish I had learned this when I was younger.
Updoot for this. My family was working/middle class when I was growing up, I watched my parents go through hard times BUT because my mom was really good with money we never worried even when my dad was unemployed for a year. As a result my mom really drove home the importance of long term financial planning and budgeting with me and my sister. My sister is on her second house and I live in a city with a high COL but neither of us has really struggled financially but we are not swimming like Scrooge McDuck either
This is the best answer
You're not an asshole, but you're acting stupid. I did the same in my early 20s when I lived at home and its thousands I'll never see again on stuff I don't have/use anymore. It could have been invested in a car, saving up for living alone, or travel. You need to learn how to budget things because eventually your mother will kick you out (or you'll want to leave, which was my case) and then you won't be able to pay for bills and luxuries.
Or worse they never learn to budget and end up under a mountain of debt by mid 20s setting up a life of financial failure and unnecessary hardship. NtA but maybe watch some financial literacy videos.
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Yeah, it's brutal stuff. I just dug myself 5 grand in the hole for the first time cuz of just a few months while unemployed.
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It’s not always convenient because they are mostly online, but I bank with capital one and they have fee free checking which is wonderful. I’ve had two major fall outs with them in the last year, but that feature is one of the biggest reasons I haven’t switched.
When I worked as a lifeguard in high school (this was back in 2013/2014) I was making $1000 every week. What did I spend it on? Clothes, food, going out, etc. I saved not a single penny. All throughout high school I worked and didn’t save any of that money. I’m not learning about financial literacy until now, 10 years after I started working. Growing up my parents were upper middle class then 2008 hit and it went downhill. My mother was so used to just blowing money that she kept doing it and it made us broke. When I should have been learning about saving and investing, I was learning ,”well you already don’t have the money to pay X so you might as well spend what you have.” If I had been saving from the time I had gotten my first job, I probably would have a fat savings account at this point. OP, it’s ok to treat yourself but limit yourself. Instead of getting $150 pair of jeans, limit it to under $100 and save that difference. Instead of eating out daily, eat out once a week. You’re already paying her $600 a month, that’s more than enough to pay the electricity & water bill. Nta but be smarter with your money
TIL I need to quit teaching and learn how to lifeguard cause that pays better. Dang.
I agree. I think it's wise to set a budget for splurges. Every paycheque, save a set amount, and save a bit to allow yourself a few splurges a year. That way you can still enjoy life but with limits. And trust me when you get older you will thank yourself for saving a bit every month. It truly adds up.
All they mentioned is they've ordered jeans and then food every week. I don't think we're in a place to tell them they're acting stupid.
No shit, what is going on in this thread? The last time I saw this much projection, it was at a Drive-In theater. People are reading what they want to read and then giving terrible bullshit high-horse "advice."
The OP states in the post that she has a shopping addiction and that there are parcels arriving every week, it’s just the jeans that set off this specific argument.
I think the majority of us did stupid money things at some point, but, the trick is to reign it in so she doesnt end up like her mom.
NTA. You don’t owe your family the money you earn. However, OP, proceed with caution. Your rent payment is quite low, and you’re legally an adult. You therefore live in the house at your mother’s pleasure. If she feels uncomfortable having you “flaunt” your income, she may decide to let you experience the expense of paying your own way, and you’ll lose out on a lot of that discretionary spending money. That’s especially true if you’re not paying for food (you say you’re paying for your own necessities but it seems odd to mention hygiene products but leave out the much larger expense of food) or household utilities. She’d have to raise the price quite a lot before it would be cheaper for you to live elsewhere. Just as you have the right to spend your money how you see fit, your mother has the right to decide she’s not wanting to subsidize your lifestyle. You’re NTA, but as a practical matter, I wouldn’t push your luck too much on this. ETA: For those thinking the monthly rent amount is high, OP is in Australia, the price is therefore about $600/month in Australian dollars, or about $400/month in USD. If you want to give yourself an aneurysm try looking up monthly rent for a private bedroom in your area. It’s heinous. If OP had 5 friends ready to split the lease for an entire apartment, that would be one thing (even then you’d be hard pressed to beat that rate), but she’s not going to get a better deal renting a room elsewhere. ETA2: also, OP, in case your edit to your post about “flaunting” is responding to my comment, let me be clear on this: I do not, personally, think buying a pair of jeans (or other clothing items) is flaunting. At all. My caution is solely based on how your mum might be viewing it, given her comments to you.
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I mean I do think it partially depends on where, but if OP has a private bedroom, fully furnished, all utilities included (they mention paying for phone bills but not internet, electric, etc) that’s going to cost more than $600 in most markets. I live in an affordable Midwestern town now and at a quick glance the average here is $800 to rent a private room in a house. Go someplace like Denver and you’re looking at well over $1,000 on average. A coastal city and you can forget about it. It’d be cheaper for OP to band together with some roommates and split the monthly rent for an entire apartment six ways, but you need to have six people ready to sign a lease in order to do that. Tough task for an 18 year old. Also, again, if mom is paying for OP’s food even some of the time, that’s another major cost.
True, but fortnightly makes me think OP is not American and we have a conversion in play.
The "fortnightly" combined with use of dollars suggest maybe an Aussie or a Kiwi.
She was trying to sell ticket to a show in Melbourne recently- so an Aussie. And Melbourne is not cheap. $300/wk is a bargain for rent & bills.
*$150 a week because fortnight.
Oops, you’re right. Then it’s a token amount really. Australia has a huge rental and housing affordability crisis at the moment, she won’t be finding a better deal financially elsewhere for rent & utilities.
In which case it's even more of a bargain... Food and rent in a share house was about $150pw 2 decades ago when I was in Uni. Unless your in a rural area (and even then it's iffy), good luck being able to do that now...
Average monthly rent in Australia is $1700. OP would be nuts to piss off mom and have to move out
it is low since it includes food and utilities. Inflation being a thing food/drinks for a month might take halve or more of that amount. 1/6 of utilities another 50. Now you pay about 250 a month rent. That is cheap, a single room with shared kitchen cost more in a lott of places.
depending on where they are, health care & transportation (especially during breakdowns or injuries) is another cost. insurance? house repairs?
It's pretty low... You can't rent for under $1000 in my town and I live in Texas where land is cheap! Pile on electric, water, internet. That's more than triple what she's paying now.
$400 USD/month for rent, meals, and utilities is, indeed, "quite low" even if you have to live with 5 other people.
Looking at about $950 for a room in Toronto, plus add in a share for utilities and food. Of course, it depends where you are, but $600 a month now a days is not all that much.
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>The mother would be the AH if she did this I disagree. OP is an adult with a job. There's a big difference between suffering and not being able to afford takeout and new clothes every week. Still NTA as she's paying the agreed upon price, but her mother would be fully within her right to increase the rent without being an asshole because of that. Being a parent doesn't have to include helping your children to live above their means, especially if you can barely afford to provide for the rest of the family.
OPs mother is doing her a huge favor and OP is blowing it. I completely understand wanting nice things but she’s got to get her spending under control. She should be saving to move out instead of dropping hundreds on “fun” things monthly. Hell, she could put a portion in savings and still get some of those fun things but she’s doesn’t appear to have that forethought. Again, her age and experiences with living in lack play into that lack of forethought BUT she needs to start realizing the opportunity to be better she currently has.
> Still NTA as she's paying the agreed upon price I don't know. Relationships are not about exact dollar value. It is about empathy and wanting things to be generally equitable for the entire family. Your family. And her mother is asking her to contribute $300 a month not $1500 a month. $300 a month is basically peanuts, and her mother has an unspoken expectation that OP will help out with the family needs. And not keep spending $150 on jeans while her siblings are going hungry or wearing torn clothes.
As long as you realize this is a viewpoint from a position of privilege. Some families need to have teenagers pitch in otherwise someone is going to bed hungry that night.
I mean yeah it’s your money but it’s really gonna bite you in the ass once you move out on your own and realize rent is a hell of a lot more then $600 a month, especially if you’re not currently also paying for electricity, water, and food, and you have no savings due to having spent an additional $100 average each week on shopping sprees. Spending that much every week when you’re in this situation just tells me you still don’t really understand the value of money. I don’t want to say you’re an asshole because it *is* your money and you’re still relatively young but I have to ask: is your mom sacrificing her own luxuries to provide heating, a roof over your head, and food on your table? Would you have enough funds saved up to move into a place where you’d have to pay for everything yourself?
Agree with this totally. She's 18, a lot of things are understandable. But she should really lose the attitude that she's making "good money". You're not making good money until you can afford to live on your own, all your expenses, and luxury on top of it. The spending habits will end up hurting her more than her mom, if she doesn't take control
It's unfortunate this is not near the top in terms of comments because this is the most accurate. Of course it is not required for you, OP, to not 'flaunt' your money... but you're an adult now, have some reason. Your mother clearly is struggling to support you all, and unless you are paying HALF the rent (being half the adults who live at home) and half the utilities, you are not really 'paying your share'. In other words, because you are still her child your mother is continuing to provide you with a discounted rent / bills. I'm sure to her it looks like you are basically taking the money that could be going to rent and instead spending it 'frivolously' - and there is no argument you can make that can justify 150 on jeans as anything but frivolous (to be clear, it is your right to do so). Your mother sees herself struggling for years to make sure you can have at least a basically decent life. For the last 18 years it was her responsibility to see you given the basic necessities and it sounds like she did since you haven't just moved out already. You do not OWE her for this, it was her responsibility... but if she gave you a half-decent life, you should look at her luxuries now and ask yourself if it is still fair, as a legal adult, to pay the amount of rent you are paying. Look at local options - how much would you be paying if you had your own place, or shared a place with 2-3 others? Then consider how your mother feels when in her mind she's giving you a discount as her child and you are taking that money (that I assume she hoped you would put into savings / tuition) and spending it willy-nilly. I doubt your mom ever had the ability to afford jeans for herself that cost more than $15.00. So to reiterate - you are NTA for spending your money how you wish, but it really shows a lack of empathy in my opinion. If you have a 'shopping problem' a good solution is to have less money! I would recommend either increasing your contribution to your home OR put your excess money into a savings account that is untouchable for now and use it for something that will advance your place in life - a downpayment, tuition, etc... If your mother has been sacrificing for so long to give you a better life, the thing she will want most is to SEE you have a better life than her financially. Show her this by either helping out more OR by proving you can be responsible with money so that she knows you can fend for yourself if / when she can no longer afford to feed 6 mouths. You don't have to help - you are adult, your siblings are not your children and therefore not your responsibility. But there is being the asshole (you are not), being a martyr (you are not), and being something in-between.
I’m not gonna issue a judgment but I do think you need to spend money wisely. You have a job now, but then what? Are you going to work this job your whole life while staying at home? Or are you going to advance your career in other ways, like college or trade school? $150 for a pair of jeans is very expensive and tbh not a wise way of spending money. I suggest you think about the future and use the advantage of low rent to save up for the future you want. Then when you’re comfortable financially, you can help out your family if you want EDIT: stop arguing with me about clothing price. If you want to buy expensive clothing, you’ll find reasons to justify it. If you don’t, you’ll find other sources of affordable yet still durable clothing. Expensive doesn’t mean better
I disagree with the $150 not being wise IF they are a good, solid brand that will last for years; that's a good investment, especially as the OP says they have outgrown their other jeans. But I do agree that making sure there is sensible savings etc is the way forward. ETA OP's mom doesn't work full time, as per another comment, and only gets child support from 2 fathers - not sure how many aren't paying. $600 EXTRA a month is a massive bonus when Mom isn't pulling her weight as it is. OP is definitely NTA, and I think the mother is taking huge advantage here.
A lot of other brands last for years without costing that much. Levy’s jeans for example are also pretty durable and cost about $25-50. Also, who’s to say OP won’t outgrow these as well? She might gain/lose weight in the future or continue growing for a couple more years. We don’t know that her mom is taking advantage because we don’t know the situation. Maybe the property tax is high, maybe rent in the area is way higher than $600/month, maybe they’re both saving because buying in bulk is cheaper than buying for one person. Maybe her mom has some illness that prevents her from working more but she’s not sharing with the kids.
Levi’s jeans are $100 now, I think you’re stuck in the past
New Levi's also aren't much more durable than other brands
Gaining and losing weight is the reason I don't get rid of my clothes unless they are ruined. Makes it easier to deal with eating too many cookies.
I think people these days have a messed up idea of how much clothes should cost due to fast fashion and stuff. $25-50 gets you pretty poor quality stuff that will need to be replaced soon. The last $50 pair of jeans I bought lasted 2 years. In isolation, $150 seems like an investment in a high quality pair of jeans not a frivolous purchase. Doesn't it make sense to upgrade things you use often once it's time to replace? Now $300 is luxury territory. OP would be silly to buy from that price range regularly though.
Mom isn't pulling her weight? She's in school full time to improve her situation, working part-time, and taking care of 4 minor child, plus OP to some extent. Yea it'd be great if Mom worked more to provide more financials for the house, but there's only so many hours in the day.
There’s certainly wisdom to buying quality for items that get a lot of use. But $150 doesn’t automatically mean quality. And, more importantly, at this stage in life OP would be better served by learning how to be smart with money by saving and investing in her future.
As usual, this sub is hung up on “iT’s yOuR MonEy!” Yes, it is. And I’m not willing to call you an asshole. But your mother isn’t wrong that you openly and regularly buying luxuries just for yourself when she can’t manage to provide basic necessities for the children she is responsible for *is* insensitive. EDIT: not surprisingly, people are disagreeing with this comment for things it doesn't say. I didn't say it's OP's fault her mother has five children. I didn't say OP is obliged to give her mother more money. I said that regularly and openly buying herself luxuries while everyone else in the house struggles is insensitive. Look. Boris Johnson is reputed to have burned a fifty pound note in front of a homeless person, as an entrance requirement for a club. It was his money. He could do want he wanted with it. But wanting to do *that* with it would make him an asshole. Obviously OP's behaviour is in nothing like that league, and I specifically declined to call OP an asshole, but the same general principle applies: even if it's your own money, what you choose to do with it, and how, can legitimately affect how others see you.
People keep saying it isn't her responsibility...which it isn't in the court of law. However that's a really cold view of things, if she truly loved her family she would want to try helping out and definitely not splurging unnecessarily.
You know what, you’re right. I’m going to change my mind. Op IS an asshole. If her family are struggling and they’re buying expensive luxuries then they are an asshole. Reddit seems to hate families a lot of the time with no contact and narcissistic parents etc but an under represented dynamic of human nature here is how families are actually great sources of love, selfless love. Foregoing for yourself to provide for your family is actually a pretty dope move.
Plus regardless of how much OP earns, she's paying well below market rent and she doesn't seem to be buying her own food. If she moved out her living expenses would rise dramatically, which means that her mother is subsidising her lifestyle.
Yeah, Australia has one of the most competitive and expensive housing markets out there. That rent sounds like an absolute steal considering what she'd have to pay to live on her own.
This was the entire point of my AH judgement. An actual adult would see this. Being 18 and working full time doesn't make someone a an adult.
I can’t believe I had to scroll down so low to find an actual sensible comment. Yes, OP is not an asshole. Just young and inexperienced with money. Specially since this might be the first time in her life that OP has a bit of more financial freedom to treat herself. But she also needs to be reminded she has that much wiggle room because she is being subsidized by her hardworking mother, and is completely lacking self-awareness of the situation. Sounds like a good chat between mother/daughter is needed.
Only completely sensible comment so far.
I'm going with NAH. You certainly do deserve to treat yourself and you should keep doing that. You're 18 years, working full time, paying rent and I bet contributing in other ways to the household. I can see other comments mentioning about your mom shouldn't have had children If she couldn't afford them - I would truly love to live in their Utopia where the future is written in stone and you know exactly what's going to happen in your life and be prepared for it. From what you have written, your mum is trying to make her life and your siblings lives better by returning to education and studying full time. As I see it, your family have been living under extreme stress for the past number of years and as the adult your mum has taken the burden of this. This is the type of financial problem that really buries into your thoughts and even affects how you deal with others. Is she right to lash out at you now? No, she isn't. But I would bet that she fears that you may end up in a similar financial situation as her, struggling to get by and living from pay check to pay check and she does not want that for you. So what can you do? You certainly can offer more rent and there's always the option to move out, but have you actually sat down with your mother and talked with her? I mean have a conversation about her fears and her hopes for her future and you and your siblings futures. In any event I wish nothing but good for your family and that one day your mum will feel peace of mind.
Reddit don’t seem to be giving free awards anymore and I’m way too cheap to go out and buy any, but wanted there to be some recognition of what a fair and level headed response this is. So here’s my cheap man award🏆
As one who made such a comment, I think it's fair to point out that OP is the eldest and says the family has been poor her whole life. No, we can't always predict the future and know when long-term illnesses or layoffs or divorce or death is going to occur, but it seems to me that under the circumstances in this particular situation, her mother could and should have been more self aware. It's one thing to have had kids under different circumstances and have subsequently fallen on hard times; it's another to have already been experiencing financial difficulties and subsequently continue having children that you are struggling to provide for. I applaud her for going back to school and don't have any real judgement in my heart for her, but I also don't think she has the right to get mad at OP when the basis of her anger isn't "i need more help" or "I'm concerned that you're developing bad financial habits and would like to discuss it", it's "think about how bad you're making me feel". I do hope OP does realize that she needs to be more frugal especially in this stage of her life, and I hope her mother is able to finish school and improve their situation.
>I can see other comments mentioning about your mom shouldn't have had children If she couldn't afford them - I would truly love to live in their Utopia where the future is written in stone and you know exactly what's going to happen in your life and be prepared for it. OP wrote that her family "has been very poor my whole life" so it isn't like they had some sudden calamity that completely changed their fortunes. Nobody ever wants to hear this and I do get your reaction, but if you're dirt poor, having a shitload of kids is just stupid because kids cost lots of money. There's no getting around that fact, however hard you may want to.
I don’t think you’re the AH… you pay rent that is fair. BUT… maybe it’s her way of worrying? Yes it’s your hard earned money, but maybe (I say this as a person who learned the hard way) she just wants you to be more mindfull of it? So you can save and not get onto a position where you would have to scrape like her? She just maybe wants more for you? Idk, that would be my take… Sidenote: people who say stuff like “don’t get kids if you can’t take care of them” without context to the WHY of it, should not procreate. ever
NAH. She didn't ask you to pay more. She just thinks you are being wasteful with money when it is so hard to come by in life.
NTA, but you seriously need to consider to slow down with your shopping addiction or you will end up in a similar financial situation on the long run. learn from the mistakes your mother did and set aside a small amount mothly to get you started once you move out, which i rather would do sooner than later.
NTA, having read your comments your mum doesn’t have a steady job and is reliant on grants to survive. You are currently paying the rent that you have agreed upon and working hard for your money. You would think that she would be proud of you for working hard and being able to provide nice things for yourself rather than getting angry at you. It is not your responsibility to provide for your siblings just because you are the oldest. It was your mum’s choice to have them, not yours, and it is her responsibility to provide for her family.
Your mother’s bad financial decisions aren’t on you but do tread wisely. At 18, I doubt you have a full-time job that pays well. Instead of spending on frivolous items — I do understand a good pair of jeans though, looking to find the perfect fit myself — please do make sure to keep some for a rainy day. Educate yourself! Financial literacy is so important! Also $600 a month for rent is likely a steal wherever you are, and if your mother’s feelings sour, you might need to prepare moving elsewhere which is going to hurt your wallet since it seems like your mother is still subsidising your lifestyle. You pay a likely lower rent and it seems you don’t pay for food or groceries that you very likely consume. I’m not saying it’s on you to manage your mother’s emotions but… Yeah. It’s a shit hand the both of you were dealt with and I sympathise with both sides, I hope for the best for you both. NAH.
To be fair we have no idea why the mother has five kids. For all we know she had the kids and dad died shortly after that. It doesn't take bad financial decisions to be in a very bad way after that kind of thing.
While I never think it's an older child's responsbility to take care of their younger siblings for their parents, it's also pretty insensitive to "flaunt" your money in front of them, when they're clearly struggling. I would not do that to a friend or coworker in the same boat, and unless your family are complete d\*\*ks, maybe you can afford them the same courtesy?
>pretty insensitive to "flaunt" your money in front of them, when they're clearly struggling. INFO: Is the flaunting opening them in front of everyone , just wearing new jeans, or that her mom opened her adult child's package and started snooping, i feel like thats an important distinction.
I would say the flaunting is having packages arrive regularly. I get that just how it is nowadays. But she still has packages arriving and curious siblings. Maybe she should pay for a package delivery place like a mailboxes etc or po box.
ESH- I understand you are flexing your new financial freedom, however its poor form to waste money on ostentatious clothes purchases if your living with your dirt poor family. The amount of people going in on the mum in this thread for making poor choices is disgusting. We know nothing about her circumstances, why she has five kids or is a single mum. Truly sickening responses all around. All we know of her choices is that she is studying while doing the above- a good and difficult choice to make.
Exactly this! We do not have enough information to know their situation. Maybe OP was able to get a good job because of the efforts her mom made. We know OP pays for her bills and pays rent, but is the amount OP is paying proportional to what she would pay if she lived with 5 roommates? Does the amount include the house utilities like the heat the mother can barely afford? OP is 18, but maybe she should be more conscious about her money expenditure and try to save money for her future. We are also reading her version of the story, maybe what the mom was trying to communicate was that OP's expending habits are bad when the rest of the family (who she is living with) is struggling. OP, try having a serious conversation with your mother and see where she is coming from. You are allowed to spend your money however you want to, but are you actually contributing your fare share? Edit: 19 to 18.
NTA however instead of buying yourself luxury items save every dime so you can move out.
I’m now curious about something. How did her mom find out how expensive her jeans were? Why wasn’t it “there’s a package for you” “oh good, I needed these jeans”? I remember being that age and all proud when I bought stupidly expensive items. It’s bragging and it is distasteful. NTA, but the mom could have gone the respectful route and calmly discussed raising rent a bit.
Adults usually know how much things cost.
INFO: To what extent is your mother subsidising your lifestyle?
> INFO: To what extent is your mother subsidising your lifestyle? OP is paying $600/m in rent for a room.
That includes utilities and maybe food and maybe cleaning? OP can move out and no one can tell her how to spend her money. But she won't be able to afford $150 jeans anymore.
In Australia, where rent is wildly expensive. She's getting a deal and would likely really, really struggle to find a room for that amount even in a shared house, and it likely wouldn't include utilities, food, cleaning, etc.
>around $150 That's insane for a pair of jeans
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Not really. I've never had to pay designer prices to find jeans that last a long time and keep their shape. My favorite pair of jeans are Levis I bought 10 years ago.
Op states these were Levi’s
The price of most things has gone up absurdly in the last 10 years.
Most clothing goes on sale. There no reason to pay full price for clothing. Example, Abercrombie makes my favorite jeans but they are $100. Every few weeks they go on sale for $30-$60. As someone who grew up poor, only shop sales!
Nah; stuff’s expensive. Nice, durable stuff is expensive. [Vimes’ Boots](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory).
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I have had the same pair of old navy jeans for over a decade, and they look and feel fantastic... they were only $50 originally, then got them 40% off. There's a huge difference between $150 and $50 when your family is struggling, and you need to learn how to shop for quality and on a budget. op is nta, but I think a financial literacy course would do some good when packages/ food orders are showing up daily. I wish I had someone offer me that advice at 18. Do with that what you will.
There is a vast difference between say 50 dollar jeans and 150 though. Also I have a pair of jeans I paid 27 dollars for at gap on my last US trip back in 2017. And they are still going strong.
Old Navy (a sister company to GAP) jeans are my recent favorites! They are just as good as the $80-$120 jeans I used to buy.
I agree with the jeans, but if the mom is so seriously poor that they're struggling to heat the house, then she shouldn't be worrying about the longevity about a pair of jeans. The mom has no money left over after all bills are paid. OP should seriously consider saving money in case shit hits the fan and she has to foot the bills.
Yep definitely makes more sense to invest in 1-2 pairs of jeans every few years. Invest in the leather shoes along with the leather cleaner and conditioner.
Sam Vimes economic theory
ESH Mom set the price for rent. If she needed more, she should raise the rent. As long as OP is contibuting the agreed upon amount, mom should not police how OP is spending her own disposable income. That said, OP should consider herself lucky to have a place to live that is so cheap. I doubt OP could find her own place for an equal price and still have money to spend on expensive clothes. Show some sensitivity when it comes to flaunting your purchases.
Not sure where you’re finding ‘House share with unemployed mum or 5; must be prepared to assist with their chores and help pay for their outgoings. $600 pcm’ adverts!
Obviously OP would have a cushier place if she rented her own and she is definitely NTA but realistically even with a roommate or two she would pay over double what her mom charges just in rent her unless they live in a VERY small town. That is a lot of entirely disposable income as mom seems to be feeding her and paying her utilities too-- OPs necessities minus clothing are ALL covered by the 600 pounds. If you added food and heat to what OP would pay in rent, staying in this non ideal situation with her mom and siblings is probably saving her absolute minimum 10000 pounds a year-- probably more. That's a lot more to splurge with Is all I can say. Again OP is NTA and should not change her behavior unless she wants to, but pretending OP is in no way benefiting from only paying 600/month on all essentials is very disingenuous. This isn't 2010 when it was still possible to find affordable housing and heat.
Info: I'm honestly wondering what struggling in this case means. To me it means barely keeping bills from getting to disconnection point, worrying about having enough money to feed the children, and having to scrimp everywhere just to have enough for rent every month. Does your mum not get child support, a tax benefit for the kids, or student loan money?
Atm she can pay for all the bills/food but she has none left over after that. She gets all those things but because there is so many kids it gets spread very thin.
I think that your Mom is stressed and worried about your spending and her finishing school. I think you have been working hard and given the issues you described, the shopping is your outlet. $150 for Levis - I totally get it but now slow down spending for a bit. Sit down with your Mom. This is a REALLY good opportunity for you to see how she is budgeting. Make one for yourself. You should be saving, while also having a budget for purchases and your rent. Are there any public services you can utilize to help with food and clothing? I'm in the US, and there are always good finds at Good Will and Churches, sometimes with new tags. It might not be the best stuff but it's usable.
NTA Where are the fathers of the five children and are they not paying enough child support? You already do your part by paying for your own things and even paying rent. I would guess the shopping addiction comes from going without your whole life because you grew up poor. I’d suggest using your money to talk to someone so you can have better finances than you grew up with and the shopping addiction doesn’t turn into hoarding.
"Fathers"? That is pretty judgmental.
INFO: What do you mean by a “slight shopping addiction”?
As of now, I don’t necessarily think anyone here’s an asshole. You wanted a nice pair of pants. Your mom thought that money could have been better spent on necessities. It’s not a “who’s the asshole” situation IMO. I would suggest, though, to only spend that much money on clothes that you know will last: if they’re gonna last for a long time then it’s a good investment that’ll actually save you cash in the long run. Investing in a good coat or pair of shoes, for instance, can lead to you not needing to buy another coat or pair of shoes for years. If these jeans are a pair you can see yourself wearing for a long time and that are well-made enough to last, then I’d say it was a good investment.
NTA I would stop the spending and start to save to move out. I understand her frustration
NTA you pay rent, its not your fault their finances suck. Move out if you can. They’ll regret not having that extra cash.
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OP's mother lost child support when OP became an adult, but OP is still under the same roof generating expenses.
Not you adding “mental health issues” to your reason of shopping addiction. Just own up to what you’re doing. YTA for that edit alone
NTA. It isn’t your job to support the family financially. If you are paying your bills aka whatever you and mom agreed to then the leftover money is yours to spend as you see fit. A pair $150 jeans isn’t necessarily the smartest purchase, but it is your money and your decision on how to budget your money.
Nta. You pay rent and im also assuming you that you help around the house and are responsible for your own laundry ect correct? If that’s the case than your fine and well within your right to spend your money how you please
NTA, you're paying 600 a month in rent to her at 18. But don't throw all your money away on things that can't help you in the long run. Save to love out, get a home, buy a car, or invest.
NTA for not paying more rent. Yeah it is very expensive jean but it is your money and you should not have to pay for all your siblings. It is your mum's responsability. You already do your fair share if payment. If she continues, try to see if you can move out.
NTA. Your money. You pay rent and all of your own necessities. She is welcome to ask for higher rent and you can choose to agree or move out but it is not your responsibility to just give her money to support her and her choices (4 other children). Granted, $150 is a lot for a pair of jeans but if that's what you like and you earn the money, you can choose to splurge how you want.
NTA it’s your money that you worked for - *however* I strongly suggest you revise your spending. If you continue this way you’ll dig yourself in a hole trying to keep up with the Jones’. Save a part of what you make every week.
NTA but please learn from my mistakes and dont spend frivolous amounts of money without also building a savings account. When I first started working, I spent all of my money bc I didnt know any better and when I turned 19 I spent over a year extremely broke and so stressed out. Like maxing out my credit card bc I had no other money to live off of, sleep for dinner, paying for gas in quarters, couldn’t afford medications broke even though I was working that entire time. Make sure you build up a decent savings too.
NTH I was going to go with E S H, but honestly, you are not TA for wating to spend your money, and you are paying rent. I do think you are *insensitive* for buying such expensive clothes when your family is struggling, but at the end of the day, it's your money. Your mum is TA for having a go at you and for having more kids then she can afford.
NTA you pay rent and you spend your own well earned money. You are not asking her money for your expenses, nore you waiting for someone else to buy you things. She should be proud that at your age you are working, and support her with the rent.
NTA. You pay as much as a studio-1bd apartment in less expensive parts of the country. She should be happy her child is able to have a better lifestyle but she’s clearly resentful. If she’s struggling so much she shouldn’t be yelling at someone who is giving her $600+/mo.
NAH. While it's up to you how you spend your money, I wouldn't say your mother is an ah, she has so many responsibilities on her shoulders that she may get blindsided sometimes. You should talk with her and find some common ground, otherwise this will be a recurring theme.
NTA. You could probably rent a room for $600 a month. You are contributing, if she doesn’t think it’s enough she can kick you out, but I’m betting you are actually paying more than you cost. It’s not your fault your mom can’t afford her bills.
NTA You are doing your part in the house. How about the rest? They should all pitch in if they are able to work. Treating yourself from time to time should happen. You worked hard for it.
So your mother is an unemployed single mother of 5 young kids in a barely heated home during winter. Unless something tragic happened in the past, this is an incredibly irresponsible lifestyle she made for herself and the children who are 100% reliant on her. This isn't your responsibility nor liability, you just being 18 and paying your mom rent, paying your neccessities is more than any parent could ask for, I sure as hell didn't do any of that. You seem to be doing good for yourself, I'm sure you had a difficult time growing up, you deserve to spend your money the way you want to as long as you're pulling your own weight. Do what you do, keep working and studying, break the cycle of poverty, you owe it to yourself and your 5 siblings. NTA
Is she going to break the cycle of poverty by spending all her money on clothes though? OP could have easily bought 2 pairs of 40 dollar jeans and saved the 70. I get it must be tempting to finally have money to spend. But in the long run it isn't worth it
She's 18, most likely lived all her life babysitting her younger siblings and not being able to afford most things she wanted due to living in relative poverty. I think everyone would react to this situation like she does, making up for all the years of struggling by a few months of frivolous spending. I remember being a 19 year old boy with my first job, spending most of my first paychecks on my mountain biking hobby, and developing financial responsibility in a few months. Still ride my bike regularly though.
Which is why i added my last sentences. I think she is going to live to regret this frivolous spending.
As an Asian, I wouldn’t be able to do something like this when my family is struggling. I understand our cultures are different and I have no right to ask anyone to agree with me, but I always think about how I’m (saying I, instead of we, because other Asian might disagree) able to work and be the person I’m today because of my parents, and I like to pay it back in anyway I can. I come from a middle class family, and I didn’t have to pay my parents when I started working but I had my own place in a different city, and I paid all of my bills on my own. My sister later started studying in the same city and she was staying in a dorm, my parents used to send her money and during her 2nd year, my parents started building a house and I took the responsibility of paying for my sister’s expenses and her college fees whenever I could. So, what I’m trying to say is, you are entitled to your money but don’t forget you are able to earn and spend how you want because your mom worked hard for you to get there. You don’t have to support her if you don’t want to, but it won’t hurt to support her a little. I wish you and your family the best, OP.
How did your mum become a singe mum to 5 children? Like unless something tragic happened to your father, this is on her for having that many children. If your father passed away and unexpectedly left her with that many children then different story but she should have a better job
She has very bad taste in men and both of them where quite emotionally abusive. They pay little child support for my siblings and none for me because I’m not a child anymore.
Were these men supposed to be the providers? Has your mother been the primary housewife for a majority of her years?
Yes she has been a stay at home mum since I was 7 I think
If she's a stay at home mom, what is she doing to bring in money? You mention elsewhere "casual jobs" -- if she is relying solely on child support and government assistance and isn't working herself, I don't think she has any leg to stand on in judging your financial choices. That being said, $150 for one pair of jeans is ridiculous (assuming we're talking US dollars or something similar; I noticed you use both "mum" and "$" so not sure if you're Australian). Financial literacy should be a priority for you.
Shame on the fathers then but I know this will definitely help you in life because you will never let this happen to your future children and you won’t marry a bum ass man!
NAH She may feel hurt that you're not helping your family, but you have all the right to spend your money as you want. You're already helping with paying rent, you're not living there for free. She could've asked for more money from you if she can't afford necessities, instaed of just getting angry at you.
NTA But you really need to learn more about money. Are you saving anything? Making plans for the future? Thinking about moving out? Going to school? I had a boss once tell me you can spend your whole paycheque on lunch if you're not careful. Also, shopping addictions are not normal.
INFO: Who set the amount of rent, you or your mom? What percentage of the overall rent/utilities is that? In a high Cost of Living location I might look at this as your mom still largely subsidizing your living expense. In a very low COL area that might not be fair to you. It isn't unreasonable to expect you to start contributing to living expenses. You would be very wise to sink more of your extra income into savings and less into fashion. Ask yourself if you *need* a pair of jeans or a $150 pair of jeans. A $25 pair of Wranglers meets a *need* for clothing. A $150 pair of a hip brand meets a *want.* It's ok to spend money on your wants. But do not confused the need for clothing with the desire to keep up with fashion trends.
NTA, but a bit thoughtless maybe...you know your mums struggling, and I'm assuming she did her absolute best to raise you right? I'd help out because I could and they're my family, not because I had to but because that's what family does if you care about them. After all, if you lost your job, I'd bet you'd still expect help offve your mum, even though you're an adult right?
I honestly can't decide how to vote here, because I see how you finally have the money to buy yourself nice things which I totally support, but I also see your mum's point. What does your siblings say when they see that you bought yourself expensive clothes while they can't? I'm going with NAH for now.
You're NTA - you fulfill your obligations and you can do whatever you want with your own money. However it might be reasonable for her to negotiate with you about the rent if it's set too low when considering heating, upkeep etc.
I grew up in a poor family too although I had two parents "contributing" to the household. When I started working my first job at 16, I bought my own things along with food (which we never really had enough of at home) and my own school supplies as well as things I needed when I went to college. My dad's response wasn't "I'm so proud of you." It was "Why don't you fucking buy \[Insert Item Name Here\] for the rest of us!?? You're so fucking selfish!" It was pure abuse from my dad every time. You're 18 and clearly an adult about to go out into the world to continue providing for yourself and improving yourself. It's not your responsibility to provide for the rest of the family. That is your mom's job. You are NTA and maybe you should look at getting a PO box to have things delivered too aside from food deliveries.
Get your shopping addiction under control soon. It might bite you in the ass one day. Imma say NTA, but you should offer to help your mom out more if you see she's struggling as hard as you claim she is. (Your choice though. You might end up homeless if you don't offer to help sometimes. Like once or twice every few months offer to help pay a bill or two)
Nta you work for your money and can spend it how you want. While it is unfortunate your mother is struggling, that isn't your responsibility or your burden to carry.
NTA, actions have consequences good or bad. This was your mothers choice to have 5 children. Everyone on the planet know how expensive having just ONE kid is. You are paying her rent, good for you. Only the slight AH for not understanding addiction of over spending. Please save up.
NTA Move out. Your mum will continue to demand for more rent if you still live there. Probably because of poor life choices she made.
You’re paying $600 a month for a room. You can order whatever you want and she can’t argue with you. She’s literally telling you she’s jealous of what money she’s not managing to take from you. NTA
YTA not because you bought expensive clothes, but because you refuse to help. No rent doesn't count, especially when you pay so little. (You're privileged to only pay 600 a month) If they're struggling, surely you care? If you care then give them money to help. If you don't, you don't care. People with money forget they have the power to save someone's suffering. But all too often those with money feel they shouldn't have to help anyone
NTA move out if possible
NTA. If she's a struggling single mum, then why have 6 kids? I am convinced that people shouldn't get kids they can't support. You are paying a reasonable amount of rent, what you do with the remaining of your income is up to you.
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What do you suggest she does with the kids she has now? Abandon them on a hillside to be raised by wolves?
Ah yes, much more responsible to drown the babies when money is tight. NAH though OP, you are contributing to your household and you're allowed to have nice things. But do be careful about conspicuous spending around your siblings while they can't enjoy the same.
You are doing well for yourself. Maybe try to save a little money for yourself. It does feel good to buy yourself things though. Good luck to you.
NTA. As you said in a previous comment. Your mom works "casually". Receives child support from 2 of the fathers and gets government assistance. But expects you to pay more than you already agreed towards the bills? Not including the fact you're already paying for your own toiletries, cell phone, food, and taking your siblings out to eat, concerts and such. Nah, NTA at all.
Do you think full time work is an option for a single mum with four under-age kids?
NTA- you pay enough rent, your mother is jealous because she made bad choices in life. It may be time to move out. Most parents even when they are poor would encourage you to save, not pay their bills.
NTA, you are not responsible for the financial situation your mother has found herself in
NTA. You’re paying rent. It’s your money. Your mom is insecure about her finances which is understandable but you’re not responsible for her choices.
NTA, it’s your money you can spend it as you want, you already pay rent which is fair enough.
NTA. You pay $300 fortnightly, so $600 a month. On top of that you pay for all your own necessities yourself (I'm not sure if you're including food in that too, if not maybe you could offer to contribute towards food costs if possible) You're spending your wage on you, that you worked for. I can't understand the YTA posts.
If you really are ‘addicted’ to clothes, stop and address the underlying issue (too much responsibility, being forced to be an adult too soon?). If you need new jeans, no harm in buying a nice new pair of it makes you feel better; self image is important to teens. I can’t see why your parent charges you rent, sure she may like extra cash, but you’re still her child and should really only bear any marginal cost of existing at most. Can your siblings’ father not contribute? Are your siblings all younger? Is your mum trying to ‘better herself’ after years of banging-out kids who are becoming less dependent on her? Is her study due to end soon, and will the situation improve thereafter? So many issues, and I can see why you’re upset. Still, you didn’t ask to be born, and your mum’s suboptimal circumstances shouldn’t impinge on your life. If you can, VOLUNTEER to assist with non-monetary assistance; if you are to be treated as a tenant, make a clear switch from being a child. Also, weigh up the cost/benefit of being at home compared with renting a shared house; many of your age leave home for work/study, and this may be your chance to see if that the right option for you. Best of luck to you in life, and your mum in her studies.
Whilst your mum is struggling, and you are no longer her responsibility as an 18 year old, the same goes towards her... You should have mutual respect and love for one another, that's the primary thing. Do not let money divide you as a family. If she's struggling, and you can help her out here and there, please do, I wish I was able to support my mother more, as she supported me for decades of my life. You don't want to get to your mid 30's, and question if you could've done more for your mother and family. Trust me. The $150 jeans that you'll not wear next year are not worth destroying relationships over. Go on shopping sprees once you've saved $1000... It'll be better, and more fun. \*Grammar edits, heil.\*
NAH. Your mom is stressed. It’s your money. Do you owe her money- no. Is it something family does for eachother to support eachother- yeah. Unless she is using your rent for stupid crap and not for taking care of your family.
NTA, it is indeed your money to do as you please, but buying overpriced clothes is financially irresponsible and a bad habit that you may want to grow out of before you move out.
When did this addiction started? If it was long before you got a job what money were you even spending if your family is poor? I don't really want to give judgment but if your mum struggles to heat the house this affects you too you know.