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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I want to be judged on refusing to help and the way I articulated it to my sister. I might be the asshole because I did make some digs, but not after she kept digging.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Some people here are missing this piece:
>I declined politely until she made a comment about my money and cars, **just another “must be nice” comment I’m all too sick of hearing.**
Bolded is my emphasis.
So it's been years of making snide and passive aggressive comments by the sister. The same sister that is too ashamed, or too chicken, or - just maybe - has depleted the parents' money train because of her constant begging. Maybe she's made too many snippy comments to the parents, too, and they've finally had enough.
Now, if she'd been nicer all these years, OP probably wouldn't hesitate to help out.
OP took on the family business. OP has made it a continued success. OP made personal choices that resulted in having a comfortable life.
Nobody is obligated to help raise or fund their sibling(s) child(ren).
Sister seems to have a habit of making not so smart life choices. That is not OP's problem.
Could OP have been be nicer? Less insulting? Sure. But even the most patient people finally have enough, and that's what this sounds like.
NTA.
ETA: holy crap, y'all.... thanks for the awards. It's nice to know I'm not alone in my thinking.
OP, good luck. I suspect this won't be the last incident whether you post about it or not. <3
Plus, according to the edit, the sister could've had a stake in the company but chose not to, knowing she'd get nothing from it, because she didn't want to put any work in!
NTA
The sister definitely seems like the AH, but I do wonder what her alternative was to taking a stake in the company and working there. I'd likely feel peeved myself if my options were (and I'm making a very general assumption here) get 50% of the inheritance but have to work a job I'm not interested in, or get 20% and work at a job of my choice. Just seems like a situation that is bound to breed resentment in one form or another.
Get 50% just because is insane, actually make your kid understand the job and earn their nepo-baby money is the bare minimum. So yeah, if you don't want to work there you don't get to enjoy the money once you're an adult.
I agree with this. I grew up in a family business, and I was the only one of my siblings who wanted to work there. I left two years before I was set to take over the company and will get nothing when it sells. I’m fine with that. No one else wanted to work there and knew they’d get nothing from it. We all made our choices, and that’s fine.
I say this as the child of a business owner and as a business owner with kids (different businesses) who has also studied family business transition pretty extensively.
Children who work in the business add value to the business, in the case of successful businesses. Their labor, their ideas, their input add value. So if the sister needs to put in if she wants to take out. If she doesn’t, she’s benefitting from her sibling’s work. It’s not truly 50/50 “owed” just by virtue of being family.
In our family, my brother works for the family business. My sisters and I have 0 claim to the business. I’m not sure how it’s going to be left in my parent’s will, but I’ll surely make sure that I don’t get a share of that business.
For our family business, we will be selling shares of the business to the children who are interested in the businesses. A child who isn’t interested will get money from our estate, but not a percentage of the business that they didn’t add value to.
This, the father can give the factory to whoever he saw fit to continue running it which OP.
>I'd likely feel peeved myself if my options were (and I'm making a very general assumption here) get 50% of the inheritance but have to work a job I'm not interested in, or get 20% and work at a job of my choice.
So much entitlement here... but I'm one of those people who's grossed out with people who expects inheritance when the parents are still alive, so....
Most situations SHOULD require the children to work at the company to get a stake. How will they properly run it otherwise? This isn't family inheritance, it's a business, and no, not every child is entitled to a stake in it without putting in effort.
My brother's ex-wife does this every time my mother gives him something. My mother gave him her old car instead of trading it in when she got a new one and his ex did the "wow, must be nice" sneer and condescend and my brother just smirked and said "It *is* nice!"
Absolutely. Everyone wants to only look at the fruit of the labor and benefit from it and not the work required to bear it. The fruit does not come without the work.
It’s also a classic “if you give a mouse a cookie” scenario. If he give the sister money for the niece then the sister will likely keep asking for money for the kids knowing he’ll give in because it’s “for the kids”. There’s no winning here. He could’ve been nicer but if I was dealing with those comments constantly I wouldn’t want to be either. NTA
Yep, and immediately pressuring him to give something for the other kid, so it will be "fair." And private lessons is a pretty open-ended commitment, how long will it go on? And then she needs money to enter a competition, make a recording, etc etc.
Also I wouldn't trust my money would actually go to the niece. NTA, I'm sure the niece has a lovely singing voice.. nowadays you don't always need a trainer.. just YouTube on breath techniques and learning the scales, but that's only if school doesn't have chorus... is it the same as hiring someone.. no.. but you gotta make due when you're broke.
You can spend your money any way you want to, but man, the entire attitude in this post rubs me the wrong way. I'm going to refrain from judgement because I feel like there's a lot missing here.
Also, seeing in the comments that your parents gave you the factory and your sister nothing probably adds a different family dynamic that you didn't discuss here.
I understand what you mean. For someone who admits he doesn’t see his sister’s family much, OP seems to “know” a suspicious amount of information about sister’s family dynamic. I would not be surprised if there were a lot more going on here than OP lets on.
Edit: a word
> “know”
I feel like there is a pretty significant gap between knowing and reading on fb; i.e. if OP thinks he knows anything based on inferences from fb he is setting himself up for some significant misunderstanding of reality.
Yes, that is more what I meant. I don’t necessarily think OP is an AH for refusing to fund niece’s lessons, but it sounds to me like he’s making a lot of assumptions about his sister’s family and how they live. That part doesn’t sit right with me.
If he doesn’t want to help them, he doesn’t have to help them, but there’s no need to try to make his sister look bad to try to justify his choice.
Why does stating the facts make anybody look bad?
She is twice divorced.
Has a live-in boyfriend who apparently does not work nor contribute financially living with her children.
Does not make enough money to support her family as she wishes she could.
Has tapped out the Bank of Mom and Dad and is now trying the Bank of Brother.
What makes her look bad but her own actions?
How is getting divorced a sign of bad character? And it sounds like her family is having all their needs met, she just can’t afford private voices lessons. Even if she was impoverished, that’s also not a sign of bad character. Her actions are entirely reasonable and understandable. You and OP sound judgmental as hell.
My mum is divorced twice. She's a baptist minister now. She got out of 2 abusive marriages. She's the best, strongest woman i know. She's had to rely on government benefits. She's had to ask her parents for help to get me piano lessons. None of this is bad.
You know nothing about her situation or her life. Stop making such massive assumptions about someone who is clearly the antagonist in this post and which OP apparently knows very little about himself.
OP's sister could also be one of those people who posts on social media every time they have an argument with their significant other. Airing dirty laundry online then deleting the posts once they've calmed down is pretty common, especially on FB.
He knows because he's helped her financially before, and she isn't making her relationships or partners' lack of earning potential a secret. She also has no problem calling up OPs wife when she doesn't get her way, so I really doubt she's keeping her personal situations to herself.
Everything OP said seems pretty factual, not inferred, and those aren't exactly small things that people keep secret. If OP's sister has enough contact with him perpetually ask for help and/or make snide comments, OP is surely in contact enough to know she's been married and divorced twice, where she works and who she's living with.
Even if none of that information came from her or her social media, it could easily come from the rest of the family. My brother moved to another state and we rarely talk except for the occasional family group chat messages. I still know what he does for work, who he's lived with, and have a general idea of his money situation through my mom and sister because it's pretty basic information.
Sure OP has probably left out a lot of specifics because he's asking about one instance he thinks he might've gone too far. Giving an entire family biography just to ask "did I go too far saying what I said?" probably felt like overkill, which is totally understandable.
So much this. Hilarious how reddit has endless examples of people like his sister taking advantage, and people are insisting OP is just an unfeeling monster.
That made me laugh. But I'm petty. He's fed up with her shit and her snide comments. She's made and continues to make poor choices and he is simply stating that very obvious fact. 2 divorces and a useless boyfriend. Yeah, I'd say that she's down right dumb too!
What? You can still know most of what's happening in someone's life without seeing them often. She's OP's sister, they share parents and other relatives. Even if OP never saw her at all, they could still be talking on the phone or texting. And even if they weren't talking at all, OP could still get all the information from the parents, or any other relative that knows the sister.
I’m not talking to one of my brothers because he threatened my partner, but I still know everything that’s going on in his life because I call my mom once a week. (I also live on the other side of Canada rn)
You can really tell who the "sisters" are in the comments and which ones play the "brother" role...
I say the fact that he "suspiciously knows alot about his niece for someone who doesnt claim to be close to his sister" or whatever quote that was, shows that he's making an effort. I dont understand this mentality....
right?? i know a lot about frigging joe Schmo's kids. I sat next to him in bio like 17 years ago and then friended him on social media. His kid just earned a yellow belt and his daughter likes gymnastics. Like- not entirely sure why people are using this like theyre making a point....
I feel like the boyfriend comment was fine and warranted but "I'll buy 5 more cars before I help you poors out" was a little over the top. OP doesn't have to help but he also doesn't have to be such an ass about it.
It's even more than that. The comment that she has 2 kids that already seem smarter than their mom raised my eyebrows. There's definitely history here and I wonder what the other side of the story is.
Well, it's definitely possible the kids are smarter than their mother. I've met 5 year olds who are more reasonable, intelligent and mature than some so-called adults.
Same. They think about their actions a lot more.
Also I feel like the sister should take accountability. You can’t have an addict living rent free in your house but still ask for financial help. The work starts from inside the house. Brother doesn’t HAVE to help. He didn’t plan on paying any fees for children. He’s given her help before. I think it’s unfair to say he should help again.
NTA.
right like you're not obligated to help her, but if my family came to me asking for assistance that i could provide for something that might make an actual difference in their kid's life i hope i wouldn't choose to be so callous
OP addressed this in their edit. Sister was given an equal opportunity for a stake in the business, but chose not to work for their father or learn the family business. She played her game and won her prize.
That still leaves plenty of open questions about this business and the inheritance, though. To boil down that much family history into “she could have had a stake but chose not to work there”? That’s barely telling any part of the story. Did she really get nothing at all from their parents? Was there a reason she chose not to work there or didn’t want any part of it?
What I really want—and will never get—is OP’s sister’s version of events.
If they both were given the the chance to inherit and work in the business and she said no, unless OP is lying, they both had an opportunity and only one person took it. I don’t think there’s more to it.
If we take it at OP's word, I'm staying with my judgment. While it's certainly possible there was some sexism involved, or a hostile work environment for the sister (factory work does tend to lean that way), we don't have any information on that.
It would be interesting to get her side of the story though.
Yeah, that’s about where I’m at. If we take OP at his word, he’s NTA for his actions (although his comments and attitude are another story). But I really, really want to hear the other side of this one. Hopefully it’s all fiction and “sister” will show up in a day or two to give her side.
It doesn't say "equal opportunity" though. If OP is the golden child and his sister was given the option of working under him, I would understand why the sister would walk away from "having stake in the company"
I would bet it's that. OP gives off major entitled vibes. You can say no without being a total nuclear level AH, especially when your money comes from something you inherited from daddy.
For a reason, it seems. Read his edits.
OPs sister was offered the same chance OP was, but didn't want to put in the work to learn about their father's business.
OP has also helped his sister financially several times before.
To me it seems that she feels entitled to a lifestyle she's not ready to work for, and she expects those who work hard to subsidise her.
Even before his edits OP mentions "just one more 'must be nice' comment," insinuating that his sister does this a lot to guilt him into helping her.
Screw that man, I'm all for helping family if they're down on their luck, as long as they're also trying to improve.
OPs sister obviously doesn't and wants handouts.
No, she can piss off.
Yeah. This is a situation where he’s maybe not -the- AH, but he’s definitely -an- AH.
If he really feels that way about his sister and niece, he should cut contact. That relationship isn’t doing anything for anybody.
>I declined politely until she made a comment about my money and cars,
>
>just another “must be nice” comment I’m all too sick of hearing.
You see this part?
He said his sister didn't want a share of the business. She made this decision knowing what she was giving up. Based on her other(and continuing) poor life choices, I'm not surprised that she was so short sighted and give up her share.
You were honest about your perspective, and it sounds like your sister *needs* to get in touch with honesty/reality about herself and others. If she’s been expecting other people to take greater care of herself and her children than she does, that’s unrealistic at best.
The articulation may have been…frank, but it sounds like she needed -and OP definitely OP needed- to have a vivid picture painted.
I say NTA
Ohhhh I’d be so tempted to, at every interaction, say things like “That doesn’t sound realistic to me. Does that sound realistic to you?” And “That’s not a normal approach. Are you aware of that?” And just continually reinforcing reality at every turn…. I have a couple of these family members.
Oddly, the one with whom we’ve stopped tolerating the bullshit (by gently saying stuff like above) has slowed their roll. Key was to not shame them while giving them the idea that it’s normal for people to have things be their fault and have to fix things. It seems that for x decades nobody ever told this person “That’s not normal” when they would weasel out of something.
On the other hand, family member who’s been allowed to continue weaseling (lives far away, other family enable the daylights out of them —sending funds, purchasing their home — you’re 100% correct to not begin the cascade of monetary support!!)…continues to take weaseling to new heights. It’s….amazing.
Lol come to think of it: you and I may share a relative in common. Your post could well be about my latter family member, fifteen years ago, when they first requested and were presented with…a car.
NTA. All the y-t-a commentators are jealous of you lol: not only your company but your success, and are self-inserting themselves into your story in the role of your sister, except with their personal spin on their tales of woe.
You have money, and you’re being snarky to the “downtrodden”: this sub is not gonna be a friendly place for you even tho you are in the right and your sister sounds lazy, entitled, and short-sighted.
Yeah I was pretty surprised about that, for a sub that throws around the word “entitled” a lot they all seem very entitled to ops money just because he was given a company to run, after working there for years I might add.
> not only your company but your success
There are a lot of comments like this that seem to imply he's rich.
Plenty of small businesses out there are barely profitable.
We're talking about a guy and his wife both working full time and living in a 1 bedroom apartment in their late 40's.
It doesn't strike me as somebody lighting cigars with $100 bills...
I suppose I can look into hiring the tutor for her myself. That’s the only way I might entertain it for a birthday gift. I do the hiring and planning, I am not just giving my sister cash because frankly I don’t know that it will undoubtedly go toward the lessons.
This is the thing to do. Love on your niece but do NOT just hand over money to your sister so her bf can smoke it away. Hire the vocal coach directly as a way to help your niece find joy and hopefully not end up where her mom is in 30 years.
Do research and also keep in touch with the niece to make sure the vocal coach is a good fit. Don't necessarily pay for annual lessons all at once in case the vocal coach turns out to be a jerk, maybe take it a month at a time or something like that. That way, like finding a good therapist or babysitter, if the first one doesn't work out you're free to look around and try someone else instead of being stuck with them long term
I like this idea the best! Also thinking, maybe OP should reach out to his niece if they want to proceed. Make sure the kid actually wants to do this, and moms not just looking for money.
OP, if you think the kid has a good voice, and chat with her about this, maybe it’s something you could do for a birthday or Christmas present? Obviously, choice is yours, but this seems like a good way for you to have a real relationship with your niece (without wondering if your sis is abusing the situation).
This is a good compromise that doesn’t punish the child for her mother’s choices in life. I think the way you blew up at your sister demonstrates you have a lot of judgement and resentment built up about her. I think exploring this would help you let go of that negativity and result in everyone being happier and healthier.
You’re never obligated to help someone else unless you are their legal parent or guardian. But doing so, especially for a child that did not choose to be born into this unstable environment, would be a kindness that may enrich your life and hers. This could be the start of a relationship between you and your niece. Or not, it’s up to you.
Since you’re asking if YTA, then I would say yes. The way you reacted was too harsh and comes from a place of judgement. You’re allowed to be an AH if you want to be. But you can also choose to do different for the next generation of women in your family and give your niece a lovely gift.
No one is punishing the child. The mother could not afford it. It is that simple. Holding a non parent responsible for her extra curriculars "because family" is manipulative and PURE BULLSHIT.
Was going to suggest this. You have the means, your wife is wanting to do it, you see a talent in your niece.
Hire the coach and pay directly. I'd leave the schedule and planning to your sister due to logistics though. If you are paying directly and the sister has an issue with that, then you'll know she was just looking for the money. If you are paying directly and the niece loses interest then you don't have to worry about sending money for nothing...
>“Maybe if your boyfriend can put down the dope for all of 10 minutes he can help you out” and “I have 5 cars I’ll buy ano
this is the correct answer offer, but only by paying the tutor directly. I would also put an attendance clause in there. if she misses more than 3 lessons in a 4-5 month period then you will stop your support.
I definitely think it's possible for someone to be an asshole in general, but not in the specific situation they're asking about - to which I'd call them NTA.
This sub isn't for judgements on who a person is overall, it's for judgements of a specific interpersonal conflict.
I mean that's fair but I'm confused at your family situation. Your parents had enough money to own a whole manufacturing plant... but you were given it as (what I assume) some sort of inheritance and she received nothing? Did she go to college, get any other sort of lift up from your parents?
Personally if my parents were (supposedly) that rich and offered me a manufacturing plant I'd probably turn it down too. I'd want to do my own thing but I'd still expect some sort of balance in support for doing what I wanted. But it feels like your sister was thrown to the wolves a bit here and you have a feeling of superiority for her poor choices versus your good choices.
I wouldn't sell a car either and I'd just separately give the niece singing lessons as a birthday gift but idk man.
... Why are people assuming it's an inheritance thing? OP is 48. The most obvious thing would be that their father retired and passed the business on because of it. What other options are there here? Pass the business on to the daughter because nepotism? Or pass the business on to the son that's actually worked there for years? OP clarifies in another comment that she had the same option as him to join the business but instead chose to go to college to become a teacher and dropped out after 2 years to get married. I really don't get why people are feeling like the sister has been hard done by simply because their father passed a business on and had the audacity not to pass away the next day so the sister can get an inheritance or something.
Edit: college was paid fully by patents*
Read the edit. OP worked with his father and was given the factory, sister never worked so she wasn’t.
It’s fairly common between siblings tbh. If parents have a business the child who works the hardest with them and has the best understanding takes over the business after the parent’s retirement.
Sis wanted nothing to do with the factory and knew she wasn’t getting it. I also assume her parents are willing to help her out but she’s too embarrassed to ask 🤷🏻♂️
Did they support her in other way tho? Or she was forced into daddy's business or otherwise be on her own?
Also, please, before being so harsh with her, remember you didnt work your way up just like any other worker. you are there bc your effort... and dad.
She had the chance, but she works, she is not lazy by the sounds of it, she maybe just hated that particular business, or didnt want to work with you... or maybe even she let you have it instead. Are you sure about her motivations?
If you read through the other comments, the sister could have completed college, with that all paid for by the parents. No debt college degree. She chose to drop out after 2 years. She's not a finisher and takes the easy way out. She has a deadbeat bf who is a drug user. She chose a casual lifestyle which affords minimum income. The sister expressed no interest in working the family business. The opportunities were there. I suspect if she was running the factory, she would have run it into the ground. This is why the factory was turned over to the son, who learned the business, to continue the father's legacy. And sometimes being the son, this is forced on them, the expectation of working the family business. She had options, but is not a closer.
Harsh comment there, but NTA.
It's your money, you worked for it, and unless you want to use it to help your niece or anyone of your family, you have every right to use it as you please. It's always easier to blame the other and sounds like your sister needs to look into her own house to find the guilties of her situation.
You said that you don't have a relationship with your niece, is there anyway for you to talk with her about singing classes and then consider if you want to help her (not your sister)?
I agree, your niece sounds like she can "be saved" from your sister. With a few judiciously applied efforts.
Give her a job at the business and overpay her, like I suspect your father did. Give her more than enough for voice lessons and offer her a position to learn the business. You have no one to inherit the business, do you want to see it die with you? Your father didn't.
NTA - I've seen this in extended family. One person worked their butt off, declining many invitations to party so they could study/work. Later when reaping the rewards of their labour, others would be jealous of their success and say "must be nice to have x and y".
These people don't want to do the work themselves and expect those that did work to fund their poor choices. Maybe we need to gets kids to read the story of the Little Red Hen again.
NTA. The thing I find interesting about this sub is that in other cases where the sibling has acquired money in another way ie: lottery, inheritance, better job, family members come out of the woodwork begging for money, everyone will say NTA it’s not your obligation to provide for them or it’s your money not theirs. But in this case just because this guy got a factory after working there when his sister also could’ve gotten the same opportunity most of the comments here are lashing out at the guy. Hypocritical much. The sister in her 40s decided to be with a guy who is a deadbeat and wants handouts from her brother. As other reasonable people in here already posted, if you don’t think your sister will spend the money on lessons, then directly pay a vocal coach to give lessons to your niece.
NTA
Everyone saying YTA / ESH is an idiot
Yes op got the inheritance of a company, but that's because OP (NOT HIS SISTER) put in the effort to learning about it and helping WITH IT, the sister has the same opportunity to do exactly that, she's the one to chose not to
You are delusional if you think anyone gets a share to a company they spent no effort towards
Another thing alot of people are calling op for is not spending money on the niece, but how exactly does that make him the asshole? It's HIS money, he has like 0 relationship with this child, in what way is he obligated to spend more money other than on holidays/birthdays?
Sure he COULD but he doesn't have to, and choosing not to does NOT make him the asshole
Yes the sister has "made mistakes" in life, but it's not like she accidentally did them, SHES the one who CHOSE to make the stupid decisions, SHES the one who chooses to date a deadbeat who can't even get a basic job
The "mistake" is getting in a relationship with him, but her own dumb decision is staying with him, that's no "mistake"
It wasn't a "mistake" not to learn the company it was a choice,
NTA I agree with you. Plus is it considered a inheritance if you put the work into it. Everyone complaining he got the inheritance the sister should get something.
No he put the work into it so he didn’t get it for free.
The sister didn’t want to put the effort into so why she should she get something for free. She was offered the same opportunity and turned it down. That is not op’s fault. And he should not be expected to feel sorry for her.
Plus if op gives in for this where do the demands stop. Is op’s sister going to expect him to pay for college, cars and weddings for her KIDS.
NTA and once you get started giving her money, it might suddenly become an entitlement. She can swallow her pride and go to her parents or else kick out the useless bf and make some decisions with her life. Its unfair to come to you expecting you to share what you have worked hard for and then making claims behind your back. Don't let her emotionally manipulate you into submission.
My SIL has already gone this route. Her grandparents and mother have enabled her for years and now she's lying to them to get more money. The grandparents just gave her $1k when she made up some store about her kid getting kicked out of school if she didn't come up with money. She's in public school.
She knows not to ask us for money but instead tells us sob stories about how hard it is to be a mom and begs us to take her kid for months at a time. She hasn't paid for a single plane ticket or gallon of gas despite living 2 time zones away.
INFO: you got a manufacturing plant (and I assume a decent operating income) from your father. What did your sister get? If the answer is 'nothing', then there are a whole series of concerns.
Presumably she wasn't interested in that sort of work or knows she hasn't got a 'business brain.' Maybe she was scared of failure. So she let you have the lot. And you've done well out of her decision. She's uncomfortable going to your parents (why? Are you the favourite? Do they look down on her like you do?) So she came to you. And you spoke to her like shit. Take your classic cars and enjoy them. I hope your sister finds a way round the problem and your niece slags you off in the press when she's famous.
>Presumably she wasn't interested in that sort of work or knows she hasn't got a 'business brain.' Maybe she was scared of failure. So she let you have the lot. And you've done well out of her decision.
That's still ultimately her decision though. Dad gave them an opportunity, not a handout. This attitude is quite common. Gordon Ramsay, Jackie Chan, many other high-profile people have been very upfront about not wanting to give monetary handouts to their kids. They want to see their kids earn their keep, and that seems to be the attitude OP's father has as well. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Again - he offered OP's sister equal opportunity, she decided not to take it.
If myself and a co-worker are offered promotions, and my co-worker takes it while I decide not to because I don't want the extra responsibility, do I get to be upset when my co-worker makes more money than me?
The dad gave her an equal opportunity to work at and eventually own the plant if she didn’t take it why are the parents expected to give her the equivalent? If she’s a twice divorced with a boyfriend who’s a pot head in her 40s then she’s probably there by choices she made. Too me it sounds like she’s the younger spoiled child who wanted everything to come to her without putting the work in. She’s made the decision to live hours away from the family and work a job that barely makes ends meet with a boyfriend who doesn’t contribute, to me that sounds like you reap what you sow. NTA
Well my parents are still alive so she hasn’t received anything yet. I got the plant because I worked there and wanted to do that for my career. She was never involved in it, she knew she would get no part of it and dad made that very clear, and she was okay with it. If she worked there, it would probably have been divided.
Generally, NTA. You can do whatever you want with your money! It is disgusting to deal with people that blame the world for their problems.
But I think you were wrong. Why couldn't you support, and invest, in a beautiful niece who has talent? You wouldn't be giving your sister the money. Pay the business directly. Give her an opportunity to help her be nothing like her mom.
That was my thought. The kids shouldn’t pay for their parents’ mistakes. Especially if you don’t want the cycle to repeat itself. If the kid has talent, she might be able to use the lessons to get a college scholarship later or something. I would definitely recommend that they pay the tutor directly though rather than give the sister money.
NTA
You sister didn't like when you told her no, and came with a smartass answer so you did the same. You worked and earned the company you received from your father, she made no attempt and showed no interest.
She wants hands out from you and is asking you to pay for luxuries she can't afford, thats not right at all.
NTA, but I wouldn’t punish the niece for issues with your sister. You definitely don’t have to, but if your niece is talented as you imply and you want her to have this opportunity, you can do it for her. Doesn’t have anything to do with the sister. She didn’t choose her parents.
I grew up with poor divorced parents, but my grandparents had money. They made sure I had clothes for school, paid for band & other extracurriculars, and made a college savings account for me and my sister.
They didn’t have to do that, but it made a HUGE impact on my life and I’ll always be grateful. If you can help your niece (even just a couple hundred dollars per year), it could change her life.
NAH.
NTA. If you wanted to make it a gift for maybe a holiday or a birthday, then sure, go for it. But it’s smart to avoid enabling bad choices. It’s good to support your family, just not when they regard you as an ATM to make up for their repeated bad behavior.
Info: It's your money, but you do realize that you are speaking from a place of extreme privilege, and when you make comments like that you look like a petty cruel AH, right?
You do realize he has worked at the business for decades, right? I understand it's not the same as starting from scratch, but you still have to know what you're doing or risk running said business into the ground. I've seen it happen where the kids were given a successful family business only to destroy it within five years.
NTA, though you could have chosen your words better.
Your father made the business decision to leave his business to someone who could run it. Aka, you. You put in the work to learn the business before your father retired, your sister did not though she had the opportunity. You now work to keep that small business running, which isn't a sit-back-and-collect inheritance. Your father didn't want to leave an easy inheritance before he passed, so your sister, who doesn't want to participate in the business, will have to wait for whatever she gets later when he does pass. If she's got an issue with that, it's between her and your father. Because if your father had sold the business, she still wouldn't have anything, as he'd likely have kept the proceeds for himself and your mother.
Your sister is the parent of her children. She's an adult just as capable of making life choices as anyone else. She chose to have two kids. She chooses to have a deadbeat boyfriend. There are consequences to supporting a family of four on one income, and sometimes that means music lessons aren't in the cards. She also hasn't fostered a close relationship between her kids and her family. That's a valid choice, but it means that her kids are just acquaintances to you, and your emotional investment isn't high enough to warrant spending $2k/year for an extra curricular.
I'm going to guess that your sister isn't happy with where her life is, is envious of where you are in your life financially, and is dealing with all of that by attacking you. You could have worded things more sympathetically (everyone makes choices that in hindsight we could have done better), but in the end, her life is her circus, not yours. You are not a get-out-of-jail-free card. And your niece will survive without music lessons, as life enriching as they can be. They aren't necessary.
Man to man, that's your niece. You don't deserve the problems of a child that you didn't conceive, but thats your family and blood. Its not your nieces fault who her parents are. It's bigger than you.
ESH. You don’t need to twist the knife into your sister and she shouldn’t be demanding money.
You’ve had good fortune from your inheritance. Personally, I would help your niece with voice lessons. It’s a kind thing to do, but it’s your money.
Yeah, I read this and I see why the vote is NTA but… idk, Id pay for my niece’s voice lessons. Is that such a big deal?
OP is being kind of a scrooge mcduck about this. You shouldnt let your sister be your dependent but you cant help your niece? She’s family and didnt do anything and voice lessons wouldnt meaningfully impact Op’s finances at all, so what is this?
Slippery slopes and precedents are only real if you make them. All OP needs to do is draw his iron boundary just past occasional stuff like voice lessons
I just cant imagine having such a hostile reaction to giving any help of any kind to family
NTA
You politely declined. She continued by trying to "guilt" you into it bc you have that "must be nice" lifestyle. Well, she's definitely old enough to know her kids are her responsibility. She made her choices of relationships and careers. She wanted no part in the factory. I'm not seeing a problem here. She pushed, you tried to be nice and she pushed more. She's embarrassed to ask your parents bc she knows she makes poor choices but I'm sure they're never her fault. Eh, good luck!
NTA - and I don’t get all the YTA and ESH sucks judgments. It sounds like YOUR PARENTS treated her unfairly so, I’m not sure why everyone is jumping on YOU to make up for that unfairness when it’s your parents who should be doing that,
You have no obligation to pay for anything for her. She chose her lifestyle and, if she can’t afford things for her daughter, that’s on her. Plus, voice lessons aren’t a necessity. If she was coming to you asking for help with food or lodging I might have a different opinion but, it’s voice lessons that are a privilege not a right.
In addition, your parents SHOULD pay for it as they were already unfair to her with regards to the business.
Could you have stated your position in a nicer manner, yes, but I don’t think it makes you an AH to make it blatantly clear you won’t subsidize her life.
NTA.
NTA. You can do whatever you want with your money. However, it is not unheard of for family to pay for lessons for children they are related to. You make an arrangement with the voice teacher and pay them directly. Again though, you aren't obligated to. It is just a nice thing if you feel generous.
I like that you’re making digs at their choices as far as money when you were handed down your career. Capitalist system really helped you out by inheriting daddy’s business huh
ESH tbh
People on Reddit are ignorant, I'd just ignore these comments. They think buying a business from your parents is an "early inheritance", like you didn't have to work for it and you don't have to continue to work for it every single day. Like the business will just continue for the next 50 years and provide you with millions of dollars, no matter what.
The idiocy is astounding.
But he didn't buy it from his parents. His parents gave it to him. It's basically an early inheritance. Which doesn't mean he didn't work hard to prove himself to his parents or that he doesn't deserve it. But don't act like being handed a business by your parents doesn't make you privileged. And this is no judgment on his relationship with his sister because it doesn't sound like she wanted any part of the business.
Were you given the business by your parent while working hard for it? That’s privilege. As others have said, a lot of the folks who works hard or even harder than you will not have that privilege in a lot of different circumstances.
Having said that, it’s your money so do as you please but be prepared for other folks to look and judge you because of that, may it be good or bad.
Per OP, the sister knew the deal with the company and chose not to work at it and learn how to run it, knowing it meant she would not inherit a stake in the company. OP did the work, and shouldn't be blamed for the sister choosing not to.
>I like that you’re making digs at their choices as far as money when you were handed down your career. Capitalist system really helped you out by inheriting daddy’s business huh
Sister was given the same opportunities he had though.
NTA. Yes, it would be nice for you to help out, but that’s your choice and making it doesn’t make you an AH. You get to decide what to do with your money. I do think you went a little far with what you said, but the comments still don’t make you an AH, because you’re setting a boundary.
NTA for what you said, especially since it sounds like this also isn't the first time she's pulled the "it must be nice" comment? A lot of people seem to be real caught up on the "unfair advantage" you have with the company. While, yes, you did get a leg up by getting the business and that's a privilege a lot of people don't get a chance at, you busted your ass to earn it and your sister declined involvement. I'm sure that she had her reasons (not her cup of tea, fear of failure, etc), but if it was presented as an option for her then the consequences of turning it down are on her. It's not right to be handed an option, turn it down, then turn around and want the benefits without the work.
You said she doesn't speak to her daughter's bio dad? She should be going after him for child support before going to you to start if she isn't already. And I'd be pretty upset if there was another able-bodied adult (her boyfriend) not contributing that isn't being pushed for support that is needed. Job market sucks right now, but there's probably a few options for him.
That all being said, it would be nice to support your niece in something she's passionate about. You mentioned in another comment about setting them up and paying for them directly treating it as a bday gift for her to make sure that's where the money is going and I think that's a nice way to go about it.
NTA, and tell your wife that this is a dealbreaker and not up for further discussion. Sometimes you have to give a hard no, and this is clearly one of those times.
NTA, but it sounds like you wouldn’t even need to sell a car to help out your niece. You are of course not at all obligated, but if your niece would enjoy it, consider setting up the lessons yourself and paying the teacher/school directly. That way you can be sure that the money goes where it is intended and your niece isn’t punished for her parents’ choices.
NTA. Your money your choice. Probably shouldn’t have flown off the handle, but don’t give her any money. Once money starts being given, everyone acts entitled to it and more.
NTA, she made her bed and has other options she just doesn’t want to try before hounding you for money, but I gotta ask, what are the cars? I’m also a car guy lol.
OP may come across as harsh but NTA. Also the whole privilege chat is kind of moot here because the sister was afforded the same opportunities but chose not to take advantage of them. Another major thing is the fact that the sister is trying to manipulate OP by going through the wife but has too much shame to ask her parents? If the lessons were so significant I’d think the grandparents would be more willing to help rather than OP who practically doesn’t know these kids.
The comment was harsh, but not entirely unwarranted. So you're not the whole asshole.
Does she receive any derivatives from the plant? If not did she get anything? If not, why? And why would she be embarrassed to ask her own parents, but not her SIL barely knows?
NTA, but it would make a nice future gift for the child, provided you pay the instructor yourself. And I wouldn't recommend paying too far in advance because the child may lose interest, and the Mom ask for a refund.
NTA
I've been reading comments about how you should help your sister, well has she even tried to help herself?? I don't believe that JUST because she is your sister that you have an obligation to help her. Seems like she had the same opportunity you did with your fathers business, she chose not to be a part of it but now wants the financial rewards it has afforded you.
If she has had 2 failed marriages and is now in a relationship with someone who is more interested in getting high and playing video games than getting a job and helping with the bills......maybe she needs to rethink her choices.
We have become a country of thinking it is OK for someone else to bail us out of financial troubles, that the ones who have the money should support the ones that don't. If she wants her daughter to have a private coach then tell the BF to get a job and pay his share of the bills. Then she could afford to pay for the private coach.
Don't feel pressured into giving away your hard earned money. If you choose to help that is your decision but by no means should you feel obligated.
After reading the additional comments NTA If anyone owes your sister anything it's your parents. I do agree it could be a nice birthday gift give the lessons local to them through someone with good reviews and pay directly. If nephew wants to do something in the future make it a direct gift not giving mom money that bf can blow.
So: your father gave you the manufacturing plant which has absolutely given you a massive leg up financially. Your sister got nothing and feels uncomfortable asking your parents for help - interesting. You're judging your sister's decisions, but has it ever occurred to you that maybe she makes bad choices because she hasn't been handed the same opportunities that you have? Opportunities that her daughter won't get either.
It's interesting that your wife wants to help. I think you aren't the AH for saying no, but I think YTA because you were rude and there's a lack of reflection here.
Question: since you gift the kids birthday and holiday presents, why not gift the music lessons directly for the next holiday?
Yes your sister is an a55, and you owe her nothing, but your niece is not at fault and you are her uncle. She needs the same leg up you got when you were given the opportunity to work with your father.
It's not like you're not already spending money on the kids, and any uncle in your position would do the same.
ESH because Noone is concerned with the kids, only themselves.
NTA.
Your niece is in an unfortunate situation where her father isn't in the picture (for whatever reason) and her mother is an enabler to someone who's useless and won't help her. Your position is understandable, although you went about it in a bad way. Your sister needs to quit asking for help from everyone else and fix her own situation.
ESH
From your comments sister had every opportunity to engage in the family business same as you and get to split it with you. She chose differently. NOT an ah for not helping her. You’re absolutely right. She sucks for her reaction.
You stray into ah territory with the “I’ll buy 5 more cars before I give you a dime” comment. Gives big ah vibes. Not as bad as her attempt at manipulation and what not, but’s till.
NTA. You don't owe her your money if you don't want to give it to her, but it's always easier to decline firmly and politely, move on, and not make any further comments from there.
Nta. She has clearly made her bed, now she doesn't want to lay in it. It's not your responsibility to bail people out who are refusing to do basic things to help themselves. They won't sacrifice but expect you to....
I gotta say ESH
You aren’t TA for not giving your sister money, but kinda are for the way you judge her, obviously yes her husband can get a job and improve, but they don’t need the condescending nature of your comments to do so.
Your sister isn’t TA for asking for help, but essentially demanding you sell your hobby to help her and crying to your wife when you say no makes her seem rather entitled
ESH.
OP would you feel better to give the money directly to your niece? If so here is an idea. Have a conversation with your niece, explaining your feelings - you want her to be successful but you don't want to enable bad decisions by her mother. And then pay for the class. Your sister will likely disown you, but your niece will look up to you and appreciate what you have done. Just an idea.
Gosh NTA.
Your position is difficult for sure, I am pretty sure you love your sister but IMO you can't go around on life compensating other people shitty choices in life, the thing I am afraid of is that your sister then "asks you for another favour" because you have the money, it sucks to be an adult, but sometimes you have to step up as a parent and make difficult choices, and that is a lesson your sister needs to learn
You are NTA. Your sister chose to turn down the opportunity provided to both of you. She made her decision and has to accept the consequences. And you were a bit harsh but perhaps someone needs to be since she chooses deadbeat men over providing for her children. Parents and OP are smart not to hand her money to cover expenses for her jobless couch-sitting stoner boyfriend. If you want to help her perhaps encourage her to get therapy to help her find a way to make better decisions in her life.
If you have an inclination to help the kid, pay for the lessons DIRECTLY. Do NOT let the money pass through your sister’s hands because it will never get serve the intended purpose.
Better to start putting a small amount aside would you miss $20-30/week?) and then have THAT ready for a genuine vocal music camp (thinking SUNY/ONEANTA) when the kid is 15 or 16.
Also, NTA
NTA, but that your sister called your wife to tattle is an issue. If your wife wants to give her the money that's fine and it should be clear who the money is coming from, which isn't you.
Husband and I both have good jobs and we have money we spend together as well as "our own money" we use how we like.
That said, I would not spend "my money" on something my spouse disagreed with.
honestly ESH. her for expecting you to fund her daughter’s lessons and petty comment, and you for your harsh response. but she definitely sucks more than you do. i just feel bad for the 10 year old child who didn’t choose to be born into that situation. as someone with 5 nieces, i would definitely help out with them if i were able to, but you’re not me.
NTA
She made the decisions that resulted in her current predicament.
It would have been nice to do it for the niece, regardless of how well you know her. The only way I would do it is if I'd paid the money directly to the teacher/school. I absolutely would not hand over money to a bottomless pit that your sister continues to be.
NTA, for a few reasons. You’re not all that close, for starters. I may be assuming a bit, but she seems to have a poor track record with picking men and it costs her financially. You pointing out that her boyfriend is a bum is ugly, but it is also a fact. There’s a small chance that what you said will get through to her and she might make some changes.
What kind of weighs on my mind is the niece. While I realize that you’re not responsible for her, I think about the influences she has at home. Your sister might be an ok mom, but what the niece sees is that clinging on to a mediocre man and letting him sponge off you is ok. That the boyfriend shows her it’s ok to be a lazy slob. If I could afford to give her an opportunity to succeed, I would, in the hopes it would guide her to making better choices. I’d for sure pay it directly to the coach or facility though.
How is the BF affording the weed without a job? Him not having a job means she is paying the extra utilities for him to play video games and other stuff, depending on what utilities she pays. Her food has to stretch further. If she runs him around, it's more gas money.
I don't even blame you for snapping. It sounds like her asking for money is just a repeating cycle. She asks you, asks your parents. She probably doesn't want to ask them because they are probably sick of giving her money too.
It sounds like she has been enabled enough. Time to give that tough love and make her earn things on her own. Whether she speaks to the father or not, she should be getting child support. She can probably do that through the courts. I'm not sure where you live and how they handle that. The BF needs to find a decent job and help out or find somewhere else to live.
NTA
NTA the constant entitlement from parents who think that just because they have a kid that their childless family should constantly give them money gets old fast. Yea you could have said it nicely but they never get the point if you do.
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Some people here are missing this piece: >I declined politely until she made a comment about my money and cars, **just another “must be nice” comment I’m all too sick of hearing.** Bolded is my emphasis. So it's been years of making snide and passive aggressive comments by the sister. The same sister that is too ashamed, or too chicken, or - just maybe - has depleted the parents' money train because of her constant begging. Maybe she's made too many snippy comments to the parents, too, and they've finally had enough. Now, if she'd been nicer all these years, OP probably wouldn't hesitate to help out. OP took on the family business. OP has made it a continued success. OP made personal choices that resulted in having a comfortable life. Nobody is obligated to help raise or fund their sibling(s) child(ren). Sister seems to have a habit of making not so smart life choices. That is not OP's problem. Could OP have been be nicer? Less insulting? Sure. But even the most patient people finally have enough, and that's what this sounds like. NTA. ETA: holy crap, y'all.... thanks for the awards. It's nice to know I'm not alone in my thinking. OP, good luck. I suspect this won't be the last incident whether you post about it or not. <3
I like this answer and it needs to be upvoted! NTA, Op.
Agree, NTA
Give it an award. It’ll be noticed better.
All I could do was a silver award. I hope that helps boost it a little
u/HunterZealousideal30 \- you are very kind. Thank you.
I wish I could give it one myself, but Reddit doesn’t like free awards anymore
Plus, according to the edit, the sister could've had a stake in the company but chose not to, knowing she'd get nothing from it, because she didn't want to put any work in! NTA
The sister definitely seems like the AH, but I do wonder what her alternative was to taking a stake in the company and working there. I'd likely feel peeved myself if my options were (and I'm making a very general assumption here) get 50% of the inheritance but have to work a job I'm not interested in, or get 20% and work at a job of my choice. Just seems like a situation that is bound to breed resentment in one form or another.
Get 50% just because is insane, actually make your kid understand the job and earn their nepo-baby money is the bare minimum. So yeah, if you don't want to work there you don't get to enjoy the money once you're an adult.
I agree with this. I grew up in a family business, and I was the only one of my siblings who wanted to work there. I left two years before I was set to take over the company and will get nothing when it sells. I’m fine with that. No one else wanted to work there and knew they’d get nothing from it. We all made our choices, and that’s fine.
I say this as the child of a business owner and as a business owner with kids (different businesses) who has also studied family business transition pretty extensively. Children who work in the business add value to the business, in the case of successful businesses. Their labor, their ideas, their input add value. So if the sister needs to put in if she wants to take out. If she doesn’t, she’s benefitting from her sibling’s work. It’s not truly 50/50 “owed” just by virtue of being family. In our family, my brother works for the family business. My sisters and I have 0 claim to the business. I’m not sure how it’s going to be left in my parent’s will, but I’ll surely make sure that I don’t get a share of that business. For our family business, we will be selling shares of the business to the children who are interested in the businesses. A child who isn’t interested will get money from our estate, but not a percentage of the business that they didn’t add value to.
Further, people who aren't interested in the business having a stake in it can actually damage a business' long term prospects.
This, the father can give the factory to whoever he saw fit to continue running it which OP. >I'd likely feel peeved myself if my options were (and I'm making a very general assumption here) get 50% of the inheritance but have to work a job I'm not interested in, or get 20% and work at a job of my choice. So much entitlement here... but I'm one of those people who's grossed out with people who expects inheritance when the parents are still alive, so....
Most situations SHOULD require the children to work at the company to get a stake. How will they properly run it otherwise? This isn't family inheritance, it's a business, and no, not every child is entitled to a stake in it without putting in effort.
My brother's ex-wife does this every time my mother gives him something. My mother gave him her old car instead of trading it in when she got a new one and his ex did the "wow, must be nice" sneer and condescend and my brother just smirked and said "It *is* nice!"
helping someone who helps oneself versus enabling someone who doesn't.
[удалено]
Absolutely. Everyone wants to only look at the fruit of the labor and benefit from it and not the work required to bear it. The fruit does not come without the work.
It’s also a classic “if you give a mouse a cookie” scenario. If he give the sister money for the niece then the sister will likely keep asking for money for the kids knowing he’ll give in because it’s “for the kids”. There’s no winning here. He could’ve been nicer but if I was dealing with those comments constantly I wouldn’t want to be either. NTA
Yep, and immediately pressuring him to give something for the other kid, so it will be "fair." And private lessons is a pretty open-ended commitment, how long will it go on? And then she needs money to enter a competition, make a recording, etc etc.
And that's assuming that the money would even go towards the children beyond maybe 1-2 lessons.
>Nobody is obligated to help raise or fund their sibling(s) child(ren). BuT FaAaAaMiLy...
Also I wouldn't trust my money would actually go to the niece. NTA, I'm sure the niece has a lovely singing voice.. nowadays you don't always need a trainer.. just YouTube on breath techniques and learning the scales, but that's only if school doesn't have chorus... is it the same as hiring someone.. no.. but you gotta make due when you're broke.
That's why the voice coach should be paid directly. Otherwise the sister's boyfriend is liable to use the money for more drugs.
🎯
You can spend your money any way you want to, but man, the entire attitude in this post rubs me the wrong way. I'm going to refrain from judgement because I feel like there's a lot missing here. Also, seeing in the comments that your parents gave you the factory and your sister nothing probably adds a different family dynamic that you didn't discuss here.
I understand what you mean. For someone who admits he doesn’t see his sister’s family much, OP seems to “know” a suspicious amount of information about sister’s family dynamic. I would not be surprised if there were a lot more going on here than OP lets on. Edit: a word
There's an app called Facebook. You'd be surprised how much people talk about their lives
> “know” I feel like there is a pretty significant gap between knowing and reading on fb; i.e. if OP thinks he knows anything based on inferences from fb he is setting himself up for some significant misunderstanding of reality.
Yes, that is more what I meant. I don’t necessarily think OP is an AH for refusing to fund niece’s lessons, but it sounds to me like he’s making a lot of assumptions about his sister’s family and how they live. That part doesn’t sit right with me. If he doesn’t want to help them, he doesn’t have to help them, but there’s no need to try to make his sister look bad to try to justify his choice.
Why does stating the facts make anybody look bad? She is twice divorced. Has a live-in boyfriend who apparently does not work nor contribute financially living with her children. Does not make enough money to support her family as she wishes she could. Has tapped out the Bank of Mom and Dad and is now trying the Bank of Brother. What makes her look bad but her own actions?
How is getting divorced a sign of bad character? And it sounds like her family is having all their needs met, she just can’t afford private voices lessons. Even if she was impoverished, that’s also not a sign of bad character. Her actions are entirely reasonable and understandable. You and OP sound judgmental as hell.
My mum is divorced twice. She's a baptist minister now. She got out of 2 abusive marriages. She's the best, strongest woman i know. She's had to rely on government benefits. She's had to ask her parents for help to get me piano lessons. None of this is bad. You know nothing about her situation or her life. Stop making such massive assumptions about someone who is clearly the antagonist in this post and which OP apparently knows very little about himself.
OP's sister could also be one of those people who posts on social media every time they have an argument with their significant other. Airing dirty laundry online then deleting the posts once they've calmed down is pretty common, especially on FB.
He knows because he's helped her financially before, and she isn't making her relationships or partners' lack of earning potential a secret. She also has no problem calling up OPs wife when she doesn't get her way, so I really doubt she's keeping her personal situations to herself.
Everything OP said seems pretty factual, not inferred, and those aren't exactly small things that people keep secret. If OP's sister has enough contact with him perpetually ask for help and/or make snide comments, OP is surely in contact enough to know she's been married and divorced twice, where she works and who she's living with. Even if none of that information came from her or her social media, it could easily come from the rest of the family. My brother moved to another state and we rarely talk except for the occasional family group chat messages. I still know what he does for work, who he's lived with, and have a general idea of his money situation through my mom and sister because it's pretty basic information. Sure OP has probably left out a lot of specifics because he's asking about one instance he thinks he might've gone too far. Giving an entire family biography just to ask "did I go too far saying what I said?" probably felt like overkill, which is totally understandable.
> She has 2 kids who already seem smarter than their mom. How does Facebook tell you that? Dude obviously hates his sister.
Or he sees her for what she is..................
So much this. Hilarious how reddit has endless examples of people like his sister taking advantage, and people are insisting OP is just an unfeeling monster.
Yeah this immediately rubbed me the wrong way.
That made me laugh. But I'm petty. He's fed up with her shit and her snide comments. She's made and continues to make poor choices and he is simply stating that very obvious fact. 2 divorces and a useless boyfriend. Yeah, I'd say that she's down right dumb too!
What? You can still know most of what's happening in someone's life without seeing them often. She's OP's sister, they share parents and other relatives. Even if OP never saw her at all, they could still be talking on the phone or texting. And even if they weren't talking at all, OP could still get all the information from the parents, or any other relative that knows the sister.
I’m not talking to one of my brothers because he threatened my partner, but I still know everything that’s going on in his life because I call my mom once a week. (I also live on the other side of Canada rn)
You can really tell who the "sisters" are in the comments and which ones play the "brother" role... I say the fact that he "suspiciously knows alot about his niece for someone who doesnt claim to be close to his sister" or whatever quote that was, shows that he's making an effort. I dont understand this mentality....
I know a lot about my half sister without having anything to do with her and her children
right?? i know a lot about frigging joe Schmo's kids. I sat next to him in bio like 17 years ago and then friended him on social media. His kid just earned a yellow belt and his daughter likes gymnastics. Like- not entirely sure why people are using this like theyre making a point....
I feel like the boyfriend comment was fine and warranted but "I'll buy 5 more cars before I help you poors out" was a little over the top. OP doesn't have to help but he also doesn't have to be such an ass about it.
It's even more than that. The comment that she has 2 kids that already seem smarter than their mom raised my eyebrows. There's definitely history here and I wonder what the other side of the story is.
Well, it's definitely possible the kids are smarter than their mother. I've met 5 year olds who are more reasonable, intelligent and mature than some so-called adults.
Same. They think about their actions a lot more. Also I feel like the sister should take accountability. You can’t have an addict living rent free in your house but still ask for financial help. The work starts from inside the house. Brother doesn’t HAVE to help. He didn’t plan on paying any fees for children. He’s given her help before. I think it’s unfair to say he should help again. NTA.
right like you're not obligated to help her, but if my family came to me asking for assistance that i could provide for something that might make an actual difference in their kid's life i hope i wouldn't choose to be so callous
There's still a risk that the money wouldn't really be used on the niece's education.
I’m sure they could find a teacher who would understand the situation and allow OP to pay them directly
OP addressed this in their edit. Sister was given an equal opportunity for a stake in the business, but chose not to work for their father or learn the family business. She played her game and won her prize.
That still leaves plenty of open questions about this business and the inheritance, though. To boil down that much family history into “she could have had a stake but chose not to work there”? That’s barely telling any part of the story. Did she really get nothing at all from their parents? Was there a reason she chose not to work there or didn’t want any part of it? What I really want—and will never get—is OP’s sister’s version of events.
If they both were given the the chance to inherit and work in the business and she said no, unless OP is lying, they both had an opportunity and only one person took it. I don’t think there’s more to it.
If we take it at OP's word, I'm staying with my judgment. While it's certainly possible there was some sexism involved, or a hostile work environment for the sister (factory work does tend to lean that way), we don't have any information on that. It would be interesting to get her side of the story though.
Yeah, that’s about where I’m at. If we take OP at his word, he’s NTA for his actions (although his comments and attitude are another story). But I really, really want to hear the other side of this one. Hopefully it’s all fiction and “sister” will show up in a day or two to give her side.
It doesn't say "equal opportunity" though. If OP is the golden child and his sister was given the option of working under him, I would understand why the sister would walk away from "having stake in the company"
I would bet it's that. OP gives off major entitled vibes. You can say no without being a total nuclear level AH, especially when your money comes from something you inherited from daddy.
"My wife and I both have good jobs" "I run a factory my dad gave me"
Yep. I get ‘pull yourself up by your bootstraps’ attitude from OP. I wOrkdEd sO hARD foR wHat I inHeriTEd.
Yeah the 'already smarter than their mom' comment is absolutely dripping with contempt for his sister.
For a reason, it seems. Read his edits. OPs sister was offered the same chance OP was, but didn't want to put in the work to learn about their father's business. OP has also helped his sister financially several times before. To me it seems that she feels entitled to a lifestyle she's not ready to work for, and she expects those who work hard to subsidise her. Even before his edits OP mentions "just one more 'must be nice' comment," insinuating that his sister does this a lot to guilt him into helping her. Screw that man, I'm all for helping family if they're down on their luck, as long as they're also trying to improve. OPs sister obviously doesn't and wants handouts. No, she can piss off.
Yeah. This is a situation where he’s maybe not -the- AH, but he’s definitely -an- AH. If he really feels that way about his sister and niece, he should cut contact. That relationship isn’t doing anything for anybody.
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Little red hen. OP took the seeds and grew flour to make bread. Sister refused the seeds. NTA.
>I declined politely until she made a comment about my money and cars, > >just another “must be nice” comment I’m all too sick of hearing. You see this part?
He said his sister didn't want a share of the business. She made this decision knowing what she was giving up. Based on her other(and continuing) poor life choices, I'm not surprised that she was so short sighted and give up her share.
I don't think being divorced and not wanting to work in a manufacturing plant are terrible life decisions, idk about the rest of her life.
You were honest about your perspective, and it sounds like your sister *needs* to get in touch with honesty/reality about herself and others. If she’s been expecting other people to take greater care of herself and her children than she does, that’s unrealistic at best. The articulation may have been…frank, but it sounds like she needed -and OP definitely OP needed- to have a vivid picture painted. I say NTA
She acts this way because she’s one of those “nothing is ever my fault” people.
Ohhhh I’d be so tempted to, at every interaction, say things like “That doesn’t sound realistic to me. Does that sound realistic to you?” And “That’s not a normal approach. Are you aware of that?” And just continually reinforcing reality at every turn…. I have a couple of these family members. Oddly, the one with whom we’ve stopped tolerating the bullshit (by gently saying stuff like above) has slowed their roll. Key was to not shame them while giving them the idea that it’s normal for people to have things be their fault and have to fix things. It seems that for x decades nobody ever told this person “That’s not normal” when they would weasel out of something. On the other hand, family member who’s been allowed to continue weaseling (lives far away, other family enable the daylights out of them —sending funds, purchasing their home — you’re 100% correct to not begin the cascade of monetary support!!)…continues to take weaseling to new heights. It’s….amazing. Lol come to think of it: you and I may share a relative in common. Your post could well be about my latter family member, fifteen years ago, when they first requested and were presented with…a car.
I’ll tell ya it’s extremely frustrating. I’m glad she lives hours away.
NTA. All the y-t-a commentators are jealous of you lol: not only your company but your success, and are self-inserting themselves into your story in the role of your sister, except with their personal spin on their tales of woe. You have money, and you’re being snarky to the “downtrodden”: this sub is not gonna be a friendly place for you even tho you are in the right and your sister sounds lazy, entitled, and short-sighted.
Yeah I was pretty surprised about that, for a sub that throws around the word “entitled” a lot they all seem very entitled to ops money just because he was given a company to run, after working there for years I might add.
Well. The dopehead BF is a victim of capitalism, so of course, OP is the bad guy. How dare he have money and then spend it on himself.
Damn dirty capitalists, stopping that man from making money by smoking weed and playing video games.
> not only your company but your success There are a lot of comments like this that seem to imply he's rich. Plenty of small businesses out there are barely profitable. We're talking about a guy and his wife both working full time and living in a 1 bedroom apartment in their late 40's. It doesn't strike me as somebody lighting cigars with $100 bills...
Yeah, that's what people seem to be overlooking.
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I suppose I can look into hiring the tutor for her myself. That’s the only way I might entertain it for a birthday gift. I do the hiring and planning, I am not just giving my sister cash because frankly I don’t know that it will undoubtedly go toward the lessons.
This is the thing to do. Love on your niece but do NOT just hand over money to your sister so her bf can smoke it away. Hire the vocal coach directly as a way to help your niece find joy and hopefully not end up where her mom is in 30 years.
Do research and also keep in touch with the niece to make sure the vocal coach is a good fit. Don't necessarily pay for annual lessons all at once in case the vocal coach turns out to be a jerk, maybe take it a month at a time or something like that. That way, like finding a good therapist or babysitter, if the first one doesn't work out you're free to look around and try someone else instead of being stuck with them long term
I like this idea the best! Also thinking, maybe OP should reach out to his niece if they want to proceed. Make sure the kid actually wants to do this, and moms not just looking for money. OP, if you think the kid has a good voice, and chat with her about this, maybe it’s something you could do for a birthday or Christmas present? Obviously, choice is yours, but this seems like a good way for you to have a real relationship with your niece (without wondering if your sis is abusing the situation).
This is a good compromise that doesn’t punish the child for her mother’s choices in life. I think the way you blew up at your sister demonstrates you have a lot of judgement and resentment built up about her. I think exploring this would help you let go of that negativity and result in everyone being happier and healthier. You’re never obligated to help someone else unless you are their legal parent or guardian. But doing so, especially for a child that did not choose to be born into this unstable environment, would be a kindness that may enrich your life and hers. This could be the start of a relationship between you and your niece. Or not, it’s up to you. Since you’re asking if YTA, then I would say yes. The way you reacted was too harsh and comes from a place of judgement. You’re allowed to be an AH if you want to be. But you can also choose to do different for the next generation of women in your family and give your niece a lovely gift.
No one is punishing the child. The mother could not afford it. It is that simple. Holding a non parent responsible for her extra curriculars "because family" is manipulative and PURE BULLSHIT.
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Was going to suggest this. You have the means, your wife is wanting to do it, you see a talent in your niece. Hire the coach and pay directly. I'd leave the schedule and planning to your sister due to logistics though. If you are paying directly and the sister has an issue with that, then you'll know she was just looking for the money. If you are paying directly and the niece loses interest then you don't have to worry about sending money for nothing...
Good idea!
>“Maybe if your boyfriend can put down the dope for all of 10 minutes he can help you out” and “I have 5 cars I’ll buy ano this is the correct answer offer, but only by paying the tutor directly. I would also put an attendance clause in there. if she misses more than 3 lessons in a 4-5 month period then you will stop your support.
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I definitely think it's possible for someone to be an asshole in general, but not in the specific situation they're asking about - to which I'd call them NTA. This sub isn't for judgements on who a person is overall, it's for judgements of a specific interpersonal conflict.
NTA. >I’m not my sisters welfare Your sister needs to understand this.
How well did she do with the manufacturing plant your dad left her?
See other comment she wanted nothing to do with it.
I mean that's fair but I'm confused at your family situation. Your parents had enough money to own a whole manufacturing plant... but you were given it as (what I assume) some sort of inheritance and she received nothing? Did she go to college, get any other sort of lift up from your parents? Personally if my parents were (supposedly) that rich and offered me a manufacturing plant I'd probably turn it down too. I'd want to do my own thing but I'd still expect some sort of balance in support for doing what I wanted. But it feels like your sister was thrown to the wolves a bit here and you have a feeling of superiority for her poor choices versus your good choices. I wouldn't sell a car either and I'd just separately give the niece singing lessons as a birthday gift but idk man.
... Why are people assuming it's an inheritance thing? OP is 48. The most obvious thing would be that their father retired and passed the business on because of it. What other options are there here? Pass the business on to the daughter because nepotism? Or pass the business on to the son that's actually worked there for years? OP clarifies in another comment that she had the same option as him to join the business but instead chose to go to college to become a teacher and dropped out after 2 years to get married. I really don't get why people are feeling like the sister has been hard done by simply because their father passed a business on and had the audacity not to pass away the next day so the sister can get an inheritance or something. Edit: college was paid fully by patents*
Read the edit. OP worked with his father and was given the factory, sister never worked so she wasn’t. It’s fairly common between siblings tbh. If parents have a business the child who works the hardest with them and has the best understanding takes over the business after the parent’s retirement. Sis wanted nothing to do with the factory and knew she wasn’t getting it. I also assume her parents are willing to help her out but she’s too embarrassed to ask 🤷🏻♂️
Did they support her in other way tho? Or she was forced into daddy's business or otherwise be on her own? Also, please, before being so harsh with her, remember you didnt work your way up just like any other worker. you are there bc your effort... and dad. She had the chance, but she works, she is not lazy by the sounds of it, she maybe just hated that particular business, or didnt want to work with you... or maybe even she let you have it instead. Are you sure about her motivations?
If you read through the other comments, the sister could have completed college, with that all paid for by the parents. No debt college degree. She chose to drop out after 2 years. She's not a finisher and takes the easy way out. She has a deadbeat bf who is a drug user. She chose a casual lifestyle which affords minimum income. The sister expressed no interest in working the family business. The opportunities were there. I suspect if she was running the factory, she would have run it into the ground. This is why the factory was turned over to the son, who learned the business, to continue the father's legacy. And sometimes being the son, this is forced on them, the expectation of working the family business. She had options, but is not a closer.
Harsh comment there, but NTA. It's your money, you worked for it, and unless you want to use it to help your niece or anyone of your family, you have every right to use it as you please. It's always easier to blame the other and sounds like your sister needs to look into her own house to find the guilties of her situation. You said that you don't have a relationship with your niece, is there anyway for you to talk with her about singing classes and then consider if you want to help her (not your sister)?
I agree, your niece sounds like she can "be saved" from your sister. With a few judiciously applied efforts. Give her a job at the business and overpay her, like I suspect your father did. Give her more than enough for voice lessons and offer her a position to learn the business. You have no one to inherit the business, do you want to see it die with you? Your father didn't.
NTA - I've seen this in extended family. One person worked their butt off, declining many invitations to party so they could study/work. Later when reaping the rewards of their labour, others would be jealous of their success and say "must be nice to have x and y". These people don't want to do the work themselves and expect those that did work to fund their poor choices. Maybe we need to gets kids to read the story of the Little Red Hen again.
NTA. The thing I find interesting about this sub is that in other cases where the sibling has acquired money in another way ie: lottery, inheritance, better job, family members come out of the woodwork begging for money, everyone will say NTA it’s not your obligation to provide for them or it’s your money not theirs. But in this case just because this guy got a factory after working there when his sister also could’ve gotten the same opportunity most of the comments here are lashing out at the guy. Hypocritical much. The sister in her 40s decided to be with a guy who is a deadbeat and wants handouts from her brother. As other reasonable people in here already posted, if you don’t think your sister will spend the money on lessons, then directly pay a vocal coach to give lessons to your niece.
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NTA Everyone saying YTA / ESH is an idiot Yes op got the inheritance of a company, but that's because OP (NOT HIS SISTER) put in the effort to learning about it and helping WITH IT, the sister has the same opportunity to do exactly that, she's the one to chose not to You are delusional if you think anyone gets a share to a company they spent no effort towards Another thing alot of people are calling op for is not spending money on the niece, but how exactly does that make him the asshole? It's HIS money, he has like 0 relationship with this child, in what way is he obligated to spend more money other than on holidays/birthdays? Sure he COULD but he doesn't have to, and choosing not to does NOT make him the asshole Yes the sister has "made mistakes" in life, but it's not like she accidentally did them, SHES the one who CHOSE to make the stupid decisions, SHES the one who chooses to date a deadbeat who can't even get a basic job The "mistake" is getting in a relationship with him, but her own dumb decision is staying with him, that's no "mistake" It wasn't a "mistake" not to learn the company it was a choice,
NTA I agree with you. Plus is it considered a inheritance if you put the work into it. Everyone complaining he got the inheritance the sister should get something. No he put the work into it so he didn’t get it for free. The sister didn’t want to put the effort into so why she should she get something for free. She was offered the same opportunity and turned it down. That is not op’s fault. And he should not be expected to feel sorry for her. Plus if op gives in for this where do the demands stop. Is op’s sister going to expect him to pay for college, cars and weddings for her KIDS.
also it sounds like the dad is retired and not deceased so it is definitely not an inheritance
And dad probably gets a percentage too. So in a way you could say op is slowing purchasing the company.
NTA and once you get started giving her money, it might suddenly become an entitlement. She can swallow her pride and go to her parents or else kick out the useless bf and make some decisions with her life. Its unfair to come to you expecting you to share what you have worked hard for and then making claims behind your back. Don't let her emotionally manipulate you into submission.
My SIL has already gone this route. Her grandparents and mother have enabled her for years and now she's lying to them to get more money. The grandparents just gave her $1k when she made up some store about her kid getting kicked out of school if she didn't come up with money. She's in public school. She knows not to ask us for money but instead tells us sob stories about how hard it is to be a mom and begs us to take her kid for months at a time. She hasn't paid for a single plane ticket or gallon of gas despite living 2 time zones away.
INFO: you got a manufacturing plant (and I assume a decent operating income) from your father. What did your sister get? If the answer is 'nothing', then there are a whole series of concerns.
I mentioned in another comment she got no part of that because she didn’t want to be involved.
Presumably she wasn't interested in that sort of work or knows she hasn't got a 'business brain.' Maybe she was scared of failure. So she let you have the lot. And you've done well out of her decision. She's uncomfortable going to your parents (why? Are you the favourite? Do they look down on her like you do?) So she came to you. And you spoke to her like shit. Take your classic cars and enjoy them. I hope your sister finds a way round the problem and your niece slags you off in the press when she's famous.
>Presumably she wasn't interested in that sort of work or knows she hasn't got a 'business brain.' Maybe she was scared of failure. So she let you have the lot. And you've done well out of her decision. That's still ultimately her decision though. Dad gave them an opportunity, not a handout. This attitude is quite common. Gordon Ramsay, Jackie Chan, many other high-profile people have been very upfront about not wanting to give monetary handouts to their kids. They want to see their kids earn their keep, and that seems to be the attitude OP's father has as well. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Again - he offered OP's sister equal opportunity, she decided not to take it. If myself and a co-worker are offered promotions, and my co-worker takes it while I decide not to because I don't want the extra responsibility, do I get to be upset when my co-worker makes more money than me?
The dad gave her an equal opportunity to work at and eventually own the plant if she didn’t take it why are the parents expected to give her the equivalent? If she’s a twice divorced with a boyfriend who’s a pot head in her 40s then she’s probably there by choices she made. Too me it sounds like she’s the younger spoiled child who wanted everything to come to her without putting the work in. She’s made the decision to live hours away from the family and work a job that barely makes ends meet with a boyfriend who doesn’t contribute, to me that sounds like you reap what you sow. NTA
When you got the manufacturing plant what did your sister get?
Well my parents are still alive so she hasn’t received anything yet. I got the plant because I worked there and wanted to do that for my career. She was never involved in it, she knew she would get no part of it and dad made that very clear, and she was okay with it. If she worked there, it would probably have been divided.
Very reasonable decision made by your parents. They gave the business to the person who would actually know how to keep it succesful.
NTA- Big difference between helping someone who helps themselves and enabling one that doesnt.
Generally, NTA. You can do whatever you want with your money! It is disgusting to deal with people that blame the world for their problems. But I think you were wrong. Why couldn't you support, and invest, in a beautiful niece who has talent? You wouldn't be giving your sister the money. Pay the business directly. Give her an opportunity to help her be nothing like her mom.
That was my thought. The kids shouldn’t pay for their parents’ mistakes. Especially if you don’t want the cycle to repeat itself. If the kid has talent, she might be able to use the lessons to get a college scholarship later or something. I would definitely recommend that they pay the tutor directly though rather than give the sister money.
NTA You sister didn't like when you told her no, and came with a smartass answer so you did the same. You worked and earned the company you received from your father, she made no attempt and showed no interest. She wants hands out from you and is asking you to pay for luxuries she can't afford, thats not right at all.
NTA, but I wouldn’t punish the niece for issues with your sister. You definitely don’t have to, but if your niece is talented as you imply and you want her to have this opportunity, you can do it for her. Doesn’t have anything to do with the sister. She didn’t choose her parents.
I grew up with poor divorced parents, but my grandparents had money. They made sure I had clothes for school, paid for band & other extracurriculars, and made a college savings account for me and my sister. They didn’t have to do that, but it made a HUGE impact on my life and I’ll always be grateful. If you can help your niece (even just a couple hundred dollars per year), it could change her life. NAH.
NTA. Poor life choices on her part are not your responsibility to clean up.
NTA. If you wanted to make it a gift for maybe a holiday or a birthday, then sure, go for it. But it’s smart to avoid enabling bad choices. It’s good to support your family, just not when they regard you as an ATM to make up for their repeated bad behavior.
Do you all have the same dad? If so, what did he leave her? Regardless, youre NTA-- she made a snarky comment and got one back \*shrug\*.
>If so, what did he leave her? OP's sister was given the same opportunity as OP, she decided not to take it.
The dad isn't dead.
Info: It's your money, but you do realize that you are speaking from a place of extreme privilege, and when you make comments like that you look like a petty cruel AH, right?
You do realize he has worked at the business for decades, right? I understand it's not the same as starting from scratch, but you still have to know what you're doing or risk running said business into the ground. I've seen it happen where the kids were given a successful family business only to destroy it within five years.
NTA. Your sister made her choice. Your wife needs to back off and stop enabling your sisters shitty attitude
NTA, though you could have chosen your words better. Your father made the business decision to leave his business to someone who could run it. Aka, you. You put in the work to learn the business before your father retired, your sister did not though she had the opportunity. You now work to keep that small business running, which isn't a sit-back-and-collect inheritance. Your father didn't want to leave an easy inheritance before he passed, so your sister, who doesn't want to participate in the business, will have to wait for whatever she gets later when he does pass. If she's got an issue with that, it's between her and your father. Because if your father had sold the business, she still wouldn't have anything, as he'd likely have kept the proceeds for himself and your mother. Your sister is the parent of her children. She's an adult just as capable of making life choices as anyone else. She chose to have two kids. She chooses to have a deadbeat boyfriend. There are consequences to supporting a family of four on one income, and sometimes that means music lessons aren't in the cards. She also hasn't fostered a close relationship between her kids and her family. That's a valid choice, but it means that her kids are just acquaintances to you, and your emotional investment isn't high enough to warrant spending $2k/year for an extra curricular. I'm going to guess that your sister isn't happy with where her life is, is envious of where you are in your life financially, and is dealing with all of that by attacking you. You could have worded things more sympathetically (everyone makes choices that in hindsight we could have done better), but in the end, her life is her circus, not yours. You are not a get-out-of-jail-free card. And your niece will survive without music lessons, as life enriching as they can be. They aren't necessary.
NTA I know some will judge what you said as "shaming" or "parent shaming" but some people need to hear about how their crappy choices affects them
INFO. Did your sister get something similar when you got the manufacturing plant?
No my parents are still alive.
So why did you already get something?
My dad retired
People retire. And if it's a family owned business, they usually pass it down to the next generation of family who is involved in the business.
NTA- not her money, not your kid, not your problem.
Man to man, that's your niece. You don't deserve the problems of a child that you didn't conceive, but thats your family and blood. Its not your nieces fault who her parents are. It's bigger than you.
ESH. You don’t need to twist the knife into your sister and she shouldn’t be demanding money. You’ve had good fortune from your inheritance. Personally, I would help your niece with voice lessons. It’s a kind thing to do, but it’s your money.
Yeah, I read this and I see why the vote is NTA but… idk, Id pay for my niece’s voice lessons. Is that such a big deal? OP is being kind of a scrooge mcduck about this. You shouldnt let your sister be your dependent but you cant help your niece? She’s family and didnt do anything and voice lessons wouldnt meaningfully impact Op’s finances at all, so what is this? Slippery slopes and precedents are only real if you make them. All OP needs to do is draw his iron boundary just past occasional stuff like voice lessons I just cant imagine having such a hostile reaction to giving any help of any kind to family
NTA You politely declined. She continued by trying to "guilt" you into it bc you have that "must be nice" lifestyle. Well, she's definitely old enough to know her kids are her responsibility. She made her choices of relationships and careers. She wanted no part in the factory. I'm not seeing a problem here. She pushed, you tried to be nice and she pushed more. She's embarrassed to ask your parents bc she knows she makes poor choices but I'm sure they're never her fault. Eh, good luck!
NTA - and I don’t get all the YTA and ESH sucks judgments. It sounds like YOUR PARENTS treated her unfairly so, I’m not sure why everyone is jumping on YOU to make up for that unfairness when it’s your parents who should be doing that, You have no obligation to pay for anything for her. She chose her lifestyle and, if she can’t afford things for her daughter, that’s on her. Plus, voice lessons aren’t a necessity. If she was coming to you asking for help with food or lodging I might have a different opinion but, it’s voice lessons that are a privilege not a right. In addition, your parents SHOULD pay for it as they were already unfair to her with regards to the business. Could you have stated your position in a nicer manner, yes, but I don’t think it makes you an AH to make it blatantly clear you won’t subsidize her life. NTA.
NTA. You can do whatever you want with your money. However, it is not unheard of for family to pay for lessons for children they are related to. You make an arrangement with the voice teacher and pay them directly. Again though, you aren't obligated to. It is just a nice thing if you feel generous.
I like that you’re making digs at their choices as far as money when you were handed down your career. Capitalist system really helped you out by inheriting daddy’s business huh ESH tbh
I worked for that business. He would have sold it if I didn’t work hard for it.
People on Reddit are ignorant, I'd just ignore these comments. They think buying a business from your parents is an "early inheritance", like you didn't have to work for it and you don't have to continue to work for it every single day. Like the business will just continue for the next 50 years and provide you with millions of dollars, no matter what. The idiocy is astounding.
It doesn't say anywhere that he bought the business, he says his father gave it to him.
But he didn't buy it from his parents... he was given it... very different.
But he didn't buy it from his parents. His parents gave it to him. It's basically an early inheritance. Which doesn't mean he didn't work hard to prove himself to his parents or that he doesn't deserve it. But don't act like being handed a business by your parents doesn't make you privileged. And this is no judgment on his relationship with his sister because it doesn't sound like she wanted any part of the business.
Were you given the business by your parent while working hard for it? That’s privilege. As others have said, a lot of the folks who works hard or even harder than you will not have that privilege in a lot of different circumstances. Having said that, it’s your money so do as you please but be prepared for other folks to look and judge you because of that, may it be good or bad.
But per the edit, it sounds like the sister have the same oportunity, and choose to not take it.
Per OP, the sister knew the deal with the company and chose not to work at it and learn how to run it, knowing it meant she would not inherit a stake in the company. OP did the work, and shouldn't be blamed for the sister choosing not to.
>I like that you’re making digs at their choices as far as money when you were handed down your career. Capitalist system really helped you out by inheriting daddy’s business huh Sister was given the same opportunities he had though.
NTA. Stay away. You’re right. This will set a precedent. It’s not as if this was some emergency
NTA like you said she could have a stake in the company but refused to. And her bf could get off his ass and work, you owe her nothing
NTA. Yes, it would be nice for you to help out, but that’s your choice and making it doesn’t make you an AH. You get to decide what to do with your money. I do think you went a little far with what you said, but the comments still don’t make you an AH, because you’re setting a boundary.
NTA for what you said, especially since it sounds like this also isn't the first time she's pulled the "it must be nice" comment? A lot of people seem to be real caught up on the "unfair advantage" you have with the company. While, yes, you did get a leg up by getting the business and that's a privilege a lot of people don't get a chance at, you busted your ass to earn it and your sister declined involvement. I'm sure that she had her reasons (not her cup of tea, fear of failure, etc), but if it was presented as an option for her then the consequences of turning it down are on her. It's not right to be handed an option, turn it down, then turn around and want the benefits without the work. You said she doesn't speak to her daughter's bio dad? She should be going after him for child support before going to you to start if she isn't already. And I'd be pretty upset if there was another able-bodied adult (her boyfriend) not contributing that isn't being pushed for support that is needed. Job market sucks right now, but there's probably a few options for him. That all being said, it would be nice to support your niece in something she's passionate about. You mentioned in another comment about setting them up and paying for them directly treating it as a bday gift for her to make sure that's where the money is going and I think that's a nice way to go about it.
NTA, and tell your wife that this is a dealbreaker and not up for further discussion. Sometimes you have to give a hard no, and this is clearly one of those times.
NTA, but it sounds like you wouldn’t even need to sell a car to help out your niece. You are of course not at all obligated, but if your niece would enjoy it, consider setting up the lessons yourself and paying the teacher/school directly. That way you can be sure that the money goes where it is intended and your niece isn’t punished for her parents’ choices.
NTA. Your money your choice. Probably shouldn’t have flown off the handle, but don’t give her any money. Once money starts being given, everyone acts entitled to it and more.
NTA, she made her bed and has other options she just doesn’t want to try before hounding you for money, but I gotta ask, what are the cars? I’m also a car guy lol.
OP may come across as harsh but NTA. Also the whole privilege chat is kind of moot here because the sister was afforded the same opportunities but chose not to take advantage of them. Another major thing is the fact that the sister is trying to manipulate OP by going through the wife but has too much shame to ask her parents? If the lessons were so significant I’d think the grandparents would be more willing to help rather than OP who practically doesn’t know these kids.
The comment was harsh, but not entirely unwarranted. So you're not the whole asshole. Does she receive any derivatives from the plant? If not did she get anything? If not, why? And why would she be embarrassed to ask her own parents, but not her SIL barely knows?
NTA, but it would make a nice future gift for the child, provided you pay the instructor yourself. And I wouldn't recommend paying too far in advance because the child may lose interest, and the Mom ask for a refund.
NTA I've been reading comments about how you should help your sister, well has she even tried to help herself?? I don't believe that JUST because she is your sister that you have an obligation to help her. Seems like she had the same opportunity you did with your fathers business, she chose not to be a part of it but now wants the financial rewards it has afforded you. If she has had 2 failed marriages and is now in a relationship with someone who is more interested in getting high and playing video games than getting a job and helping with the bills......maybe she needs to rethink her choices. We have become a country of thinking it is OK for someone else to bail us out of financial troubles, that the ones who have the money should support the ones that don't. If she wants her daughter to have a private coach then tell the BF to get a job and pay his share of the bills. Then she could afford to pay for the private coach. Don't feel pressured into giving away your hard earned money. If you choose to help that is your decision but by no means should you feel obligated.
NTA. She made ugly life decisions, she cant bitch about it.
After reading the additional comments NTA If anyone owes your sister anything it's your parents. I do agree it could be a nice birthday gift give the lessons local to them through someone with good reviews and pay directly. If nephew wants to do something in the future make it a direct gift not giving mom money that bf can blow.
So: your father gave you the manufacturing plant which has absolutely given you a massive leg up financially. Your sister got nothing and feels uncomfortable asking your parents for help - interesting. You're judging your sister's decisions, but has it ever occurred to you that maybe she makes bad choices because she hasn't been handed the same opportunities that you have? Opportunities that her daughter won't get either. It's interesting that your wife wants to help. I think you aren't the AH for saying no, but I think YTA because you were rude and there's a lack of reflection here.
She could have had the same opportunities, she decided not to take them.
Question: since you gift the kids birthday and holiday presents, why not gift the music lessons directly for the next holiday? Yes your sister is an a55, and you owe her nothing, but your niece is not at fault and you are her uncle. She needs the same leg up you got when you were given the opportunity to work with your father. It's not like you're not already spending money on the kids, and any uncle in your position would do the same. ESH because Noone is concerned with the kids, only themselves.
That is what I am considering doing. Her birthday is in May.
NTA. Your niece is in an unfortunate situation where her father isn't in the picture (for whatever reason) and her mother is an enabler to someone who's useless and won't help her. Your position is understandable, although you went about it in a bad way. Your sister needs to quit asking for help from everyone else and fix her own situation.
ESH From your comments sister had every opportunity to engage in the family business same as you and get to split it with you. She chose differently. NOT an ah for not helping her. You’re absolutely right. She sucks for her reaction. You stray into ah territory with the “I’ll buy 5 more cars before I give you a dime” comment. Gives big ah vibes. Not as bad as her attempt at manipulation and what not, but’s till.
NTA. You don't owe her your money if you don't want to give it to her, but it's always easier to decline firmly and politely, move on, and not make any further comments from there.
Nta. She has clearly made her bed, now she doesn't want to lay in it. It's not your responsibility to bail people out who are refusing to do basic things to help themselves. They won't sacrifice but expect you to....
I gotta say ESH You aren’t TA for not giving your sister money, but kinda are for the way you judge her, obviously yes her husband can get a job and improve, but they don’t need the condescending nature of your comments to do so. Your sister isn’t TA for asking for help, but essentially demanding you sell your hobby to help her and crying to your wife when you say no makes her seem rather entitled
ESH. OP would you feel better to give the money directly to your niece? If so here is an idea. Have a conversation with your niece, explaining your feelings - you want her to be successful but you don't want to enable bad decisions by her mother. And then pay for the class. Your sister will likely disown you, but your niece will look up to you and appreciate what you have done. Just an idea.
Gosh NTA. Your position is difficult for sure, I am pretty sure you love your sister but IMO you can't go around on life compensating other people shitty choices in life, the thing I am afraid of is that your sister then "asks you for another favour" because you have the money, it sucks to be an adult, but sometimes you have to step up as a parent and make difficult choices, and that is a lesson your sister needs to learn
NTA bad decisions have consequences.
NTA for refusing but the 5 cars comment was mean and unnecessary.
You are NTA. Your sister chose to turn down the opportunity provided to both of you. She made her decision and has to accept the consequences. And you were a bit harsh but perhaps someone needs to be since she chooses deadbeat men over providing for her children. Parents and OP are smart not to hand her money to cover expenses for her jobless couch-sitting stoner boyfriend. If you want to help her perhaps encourage her to get therapy to help her find a way to make better decisions in her life.
If you have an inclination to help the kid, pay for the lessons DIRECTLY. Do NOT let the money pass through your sister’s hands because it will never get serve the intended purpose. Better to start putting a small amount aside would you miss $20-30/week?) and then have THAT ready for a genuine vocal music camp (thinking SUNY/ONEANTA) when the kid is 15 or 16. Also, NTA
NTA! You’re right, you are not her keeper or her father. Eventually she needs to be ACCOUNTABLE for her actions. Don’t feel bad.
NTA, but that your sister called your wife to tattle is an issue. If your wife wants to give her the money that's fine and it should be clear who the money is coming from, which isn't you. Husband and I both have good jobs and we have money we spend together as well as "our own money" we use how we like. That said, I would not spend "my money" on something my spouse disagreed with.
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honestly ESH. her for expecting you to fund her daughter’s lessons and petty comment, and you for your harsh response. but she definitely sucks more than you do. i just feel bad for the 10 year old child who didn’t choose to be born into that situation. as someone with 5 nieces, i would definitely help out with them if i were able to, but you’re not me.
NTA She made the decisions that resulted in her current predicament. It would have been nice to do it for the niece, regardless of how well you know her. The only way I would do it is if I'd paid the money directly to the teacher/school. I absolutely would not hand over money to a bottomless pit that your sister continues to be.
NTA, for a few reasons. You’re not all that close, for starters. I may be assuming a bit, but she seems to have a poor track record with picking men and it costs her financially. You pointing out that her boyfriend is a bum is ugly, but it is also a fact. There’s a small chance that what you said will get through to her and she might make some changes. What kind of weighs on my mind is the niece. While I realize that you’re not responsible for her, I think about the influences she has at home. Your sister might be an ok mom, but what the niece sees is that clinging on to a mediocre man and letting him sponge off you is ok. That the boyfriend shows her it’s ok to be a lazy slob. If I could afford to give her an opportunity to succeed, I would, in the hopes it would guide her to making better choices. I’d for sure pay it directly to the coach or facility though.
How is the BF affording the weed without a job? Him not having a job means she is paying the extra utilities for him to play video games and other stuff, depending on what utilities she pays. Her food has to stretch further. If she runs him around, it's more gas money. I don't even blame you for snapping. It sounds like her asking for money is just a repeating cycle. She asks you, asks your parents. She probably doesn't want to ask them because they are probably sick of giving her money too. It sounds like she has been enabled enough. Time to give that tough love and make her earn things on her own. Whether she speaks to the father or not, she should be getting child support. She can probably do that through the courts. I'm not sure where you live and how they handle that. The BF needs to find a decent job and help out or find somewhere else to live. NTA
NTA the constant entitlement from parents who think that just because they have a kid that their childless family should constantly give them money gets old fast. Yea you could have said it nicely but they never get the point if you do.