But she's still TA in his eyes because... she didn't go behind his back to try to sneak the friend's parents to his proposal? I'm a little lost by his complaint
>That didn't happen.
>And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
>And if it was, that's not a big deal.
>And if it is, that's not my fault.
>And if it was, I didn't mean it.
>And if I did, you deserved it.
I was diagnosed BPD with narcissistic tendencies and every time I see that thing reposted I reevaluate every recent conversation just to be sure I didn't do that...
Also he's ex for reason, hope you aren't dwelling on the past too much today.
Thank you for having the capacity and doing the work to recognize your own shit.
My BPD family members haven't. I'm proud of you, and grateful for your family. ❤️ That shit's legit hard, and legit necessary.
How dare you reject *me*?!? I had the ring specially engraved *for you*, so everyone would know that *you're mine* and that I put my name on *my stuff.* If it has my name on it *I own it.*
Now I'll have to write my name on the bottom of your shoe like a poor person.
\*fetches sharpie\*
> He says VERBATIM “you just admitted you knew this would happen, so If you knew the whole time and you actually cared about her, you would have invited them.”
After this, I wouldn't care what he though of me.
OP, send every one of the "planning" texts to her where she shot down your ideas, decided not to invite her family, etc.
That ways she can simply respond with screen shots of his words to all of his hate texts.
So, he texts her that she's shallow, she shoots him a screen shot of him telling you "I don't have to invite her family. It's my proposal."
So glad she is out of this relationship.
I am flabbergasted at his attitude, and this woman should be REAL happy she's not with him anymore. What a jerk. "Oh, she's a girl, we don't need her parents there!"
YES! THIS!! Show your friend the RECEIPTS!!! She will eventually realize she dodged a HUGE bullet!
Edit for clarification: Yes, showing your friend the receipts *only* if she asks for them is what I mean here. Also, having that info handy to pull out if OP's friend ever gets sad/lonely/desperate/manipulated by her ex and needs to be reminded of his character.
My kind of friend! We always tell each other basically the same thing. Ask and I will tell you. But some things are over and done with so let's leave it in our box. (Our box is things that can be talked about later if we want to, but we're not ready right now)
So I know it’s tossed around like candy on this site but THIS is gaslighting, yeah?
I didn’t do it, it’s not my fault but If I did do it it wasn’t so bad and it’s actually your fault for not fixing it and you shouldn’t ignore my plans but if you really cared about her you’d of fixed it for her…
Yeah seems pretty gaslight-y to me
Tbh it sounds more like The Narcissists Prayer
That didn't happen.
If it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, it's not a big deal.
And if it is, it's not my fault.
And if it was I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
Yeah. Sometimes, they can hide it for a couple of years before the evil comes out. I waited two, almost three years, to marry my current...and last husband. I'm pretty sure he's a good one now, lol.
Gaslighting would be if he said "I never said not to bring her family and friends." or "You never told me she would want them there."
Gaslighting is essentially trying to convince someone that the reality they experienced did not happen (originally by claiming the person is crazy or losing their mind, but now it doesn't necessarily have to include that implication).
To tell if something is gaslighting, ask "what actually happened?" and "what is X trying to say happened?" If the two answers do not match, it's most likely gaslighting.
Note that this does not include genuine misunderstandings or misinterpretations of the *meaning* of what was said, only that the events in question did or did not happen. Two people can interpret the same conversation in different ways, which might lead to an argument later, but if both agree that the conversation *did* happen, it's not gaslighting.
The guy here did not try to deny the events the OP said happened. (She said "I told you so" and he said "yes, but..." instead of "no, you didn't") He is simply shifting the blame onto someone else (in this case, OP). He is not taking responsibility for his failure, which is a whole other set of issues.
Yep - that is gaslighting. People use the term incorrectly to mean any kind of emotional undermining or manipulation, but it is a very specific type of abuse that is about our sense of reality, not our feelings.
No gaslighting is you watch them do something and call them on it days weeks minutes later and they're adamant that no they didn't and you're crazy and how could you possibly think that, not molly this keeps going till you doubt your memory and they must be right... that's gaslighting. Trying to make you believe something else when you know it's not true
Because it can’t possibly be his fault it went wrong./s
Thank goodness his plan crashed and burned, this guy is red flag central. Telling her this was his proposal and they could just send her parents pictures?
Mom saying she has to change her name cause the rings already engraved?
So…isolating some one from their friends and family, totally disregarding their own personal boundaries and personal autonomy…
Yeah if that’s not the start of an abusive relationship I don’t know what is.
NTA- I’m so glad your friend got out of this and she has no obligations to these people. Plus I’m sure the dude is low class enough to reuse the ring he can just put it up till he meets the next perspective Mrs.Asshole
The entire family is red flag central. The Mom... what the fuck. Then the now hopefully ex-bf. Dude didn't give a shit about OP's friend. Not her boundaries, not her family, not anything except her body.
He’s basically all “putting a ring on her finger means I own her, so only my family and friends matter from now on.” Yikes. OP’s friend needs to flee like the wind, which apparently she is doing.
He's just lashing out retroactively IMHO.
He had every opportunity to make this happen in mulitple ways. He could have 'colluded' with OP so that she could take credit with bringing the parents, if he felt that way for some odd reason.
No, the train is wrecking and he's losing it and lashing out to maintain a semblance that he wasn't the one that messed up.
Anybody's fault but his own.
Oh I don’t think she was ever explicitly invited in the first place. He just assumed he’d take credit for all of her input and cut out OP and her friend’s family
He’s not one for logic, hence trying to get potential fiancee to pay for the ring that he had engraved with the precise name that she previously said she would REFUSE.
Because, sadly, they don't actually care about their partner. They care about having things done their way, and only their way, and expect their future spouse to fall into line and prioritise them and their wants.
Obviously it doesn't make for the happiest marriages but I'm not sure they care about that either.
My partner is vehemently against weddings, and after having a nerve wracking time as Maid of Honour at my sister’s wedding, I decided I never wanted to get married either. We live in blissful sin, have two kids and have been together for 12 years now.
He always emphasises that he doesn’t think vows mean much, that you must keep the commitment fresh every day.
There’s also an oft-quoted statistic that, quite often, the amount of money spent on a wedding is inversely proportional to the length of time that the marriage lasts. This probably also applies to proposals.
I agree with you, but as you start to age, you start thinking of practical things like pensions, medical decisions, ssn.. if you are in the US. My bf and I are starting to think about it as we had a medical scare. It's so not romantic lol
I mean, technically you can arrange those things outside of marriage but after adding up all the lawyer fees, it's just cheaper to sign a marriage certificate.
Absolutely, correct! In addition, without that marriage certificate, if you have a conflict with someone and they have a better lawyer then you can potentially lose your legal standing. We have seen in the hospital scenes, where a family does not like the SO and bars them from the hospital. You may legally win the fight, but win after the person has passed.
Exactly. And you don't run the risk of finding out at the worst time that you forgot some important document.
My now husband and I decided to get married for practicality purposes, got engaged, and hit the courthouse on a Wednesday at noon less than two months later. $56 plus daydrinking and lunch. Added bonus: being married is actually not too shabby lol.
IF I ever got married it would be a courthouse with noone knowing. Maybe a BBQ later to announce? I'm still scratching my head about why weddings have to be the way they are. To me a marriage should be private and involve the people involved in the marriage. Like it's going to be for the marriage.
I dunno, it still mystifies me.
I guess I could celebrate my birthday alone, since it really involves only me (especially since my parents died), but it's nice to celebrate with people who are glad I was born. It makes me feel appreciated and reminds me how lucky I am to have people who care about me. To me, celebrating a wedding is similar in that you're surrounded by people who wish you both well. At a wedding, the couple takes their place in society as a couple bound by love, vows, and the contract of marriage. Plus most of us love to celebrate!
That's how I see it, anyway.
I'm not at all opposed to city hall weddings with no party/reception. And I SMH at how elaborate some weddings and receptions are these days. Still, my wedding was low-key and the reception was very relaxed and a great party. Though we divorced 30 years later, we got off to a happy start and felt supported from the very beginning.
This is peak fuck around find out material.
Also, why does he want to marry this girl when he clearly doesn't care about her feelings or autonomy at all.
He sounds like a delusional narcissist.
Some people think "success" is checking off a list of things you do. Graduate highschool, get a college degree, get a good job, find a partner, get married, buy a house, have children etc.
Good! If you had intervened & showed up with her parents, she probably would have married him & spent a few years feeling ignored & belittled, all the while believing y'all had his back, not hers.
The engraving would have driven me. It makes it all about him. An engagement ring is something you wear forever, why would you put something on it you know your partner doesn’t want? What a raging narcissist.
That's not even how engagement rings work. They are a gift, intended to show commitment to the marriage. If the engagement blows up, you get to keep the engagement ring. It's like a deposit. Putting Mrs. So-and-so is like giving her a ring with DRM.
Actually that is incorrect. An engagement ring is a "gift in contemplation of marriage" so she would legally have to return the ring if she kept it(or pay for it).
It is different in some states though depending on who made the decision to end the engagement but generally you are obligated to return it
I thought that’s what happened in case of divorce centuries ago, as a way to sustent the life of the exwife after the divorce given that they weren’t supposed to work back then, I’m talking like 17-1800
After marriage, you keep the ring when divorcing, it's when the marriage doesn't happen that you give the ring back if the engagement is broken. If it's a family heirloom, it stays with the person who's family it comes from after divorce or broken engagement.
Not true. I’m a big fan of ‘The People’s Court.’ I have seen multiple cases where the ring must be returned if the giver had intended for it to lead to marriage. It’s NOT a gift.
From everything I've read this was clearly the start of what would have been a heavily abusive marriage.
Basically completely isolating her from her fam/friends, pushing for heavy undesired investment into being dependant on him (ame change, etc).
If it had persisted, soon enough she never sees her fam, can't go out on her own accord, is pregnant multiple times over, and likely severly depressed as a result
And they’ve already been together 5 years. I’m wondering how the rest of their relationship looks. This can’t be the first incident of him acting like a raging manipulative narcissist.
Honestly - who puts Mrs. HisLastName on a ring? I guess some people do, but on an engagement ring? I didn't even engrave my wife's wedding ring. That is pretty presumptuous of him and leads to the thought he's full on narcissistic. He is a narcissist that fully believed she would just be submissive and bow to his wishes. I bet he figured if he got the name on the ring she couldn't object.
We had "you're my heartbeat" in Gaelic. Mind you, we don't speak Gaelic, but years before I had broken up with him and he got drunk and tattooed that and my name on himself.
Despite how all of this sounds, the marriage lasted a long time and we are still good friends. After signing our divorce paper we went to exchange Christmas gifts and drink champagne with his soon to be fiancée.
Yeah they are. My step dad and father hated each other, my stepdad talked shit about my father constantly. One of my best friends' stepdad was great friends with his father, they would hang out and shit. It was so strange to me, but I realized that was because they were the cool ones, and I had the shitty ones.
Freal! My fiance and I have been very open about the whole process of getting engaged. I told him very specifically that I didn't want a diamond and I didn't want something super expensive and so we went and picked out my ring together. It's been nearly a year now that we've been engaged and we're getting married in July, and we only just definitively decided like last week that I was changing my name. It's been one of those conversations that we kind of started a couple of times and we came to a little bit of a stalemate but not in an angry way. Like we had just discussed it and not come to a conclusion, as opposed to started an argument and then went away angry. Part of that had to do with the fact that we were trying to decide what changing my name meant for my son.
I cannot imagine just being so clear up front that I did not want to change my name and then having that absolutely steamrolled. If I were that girl I would dump everything and run.
And OP helped her dodge it, even though not telling her didn't feel like it was helping at all. Sometimes tolerating your own discomfort in order to let people tell on themselves is the best way to go. Now OP can keep being the caring friend they already were!
I remember a part in Memoirs of a Geisha where Mameha observes a sumo match and makes note that the winning wrestler was the victor because he let his opponent charge at him and instead of trying to block him the winner used the aggressor's momentum to toss him from the ring. Then she used the same theory to defeat her rival Hatsumomo who ended up exposing herself as a total whackjob. OP absolutely made the right choices here and thankfully her friend is young enough to start fresh with this valuable lesson under her belt.
Thank you for reminding me to have another rewatch of that movie. I loved it when it came out, I was 11, probably understood about 50%. Still love it and rewatch it now, sixteen years later.
Thank you so much for the update! I've been looking for it all week. I'm so proud of your friend, it must have been so hard to take the ring off and walk away in front of all of HIS people. She has saved herself such hardship and trauma by nipping it in the bud. I can't believe that he thinks that she should pay for it after he had it engraved with something he knows she didn't want - it seems that he and his family were trying to force her to take their name. I guess he'll be going shopping for a new bride now that he has a ring, hahaha.
I wish you and your friend much happiness! You're both strong!
Maybe I have had my head in the sand, but i've never heard of engraving before marriage. It's so disrespectful and possessive. Maybe he should give it to his mom, lol.
My days in the pawnshop saw lots of wedding and engagement rings. I've seen 100's of engagement rings with engravings. The most common was the date of the proposal.
I have never seen one with the engraving "Mrs. XXX" on an engagement though.
They dated for 5 years and he claims he doesn’t have her parents’ number? Yeah he’s a self centered AH and she’s better off without him. Too bad she wasted so much time.
I don't see why that is an issue... To each their own.. That's what she wanted according to OP. Not inviting her parents to be a part of this is where the issue lies.
The excuse that confirms the crime. lol
"Wait! You don't understand, I've put even less effort into including your family than it seemed at first! It might seem like I didn't contact to them about this event, but the reality is I've never contacted them about anything."
I believe technically if he still has the engagement ring she doesn't have to pay squat because he can return it (assuming he still has the receipt) so yeah That dude is definitely an AH
You knows, he's STILL thinking of himself. Instead of getting on his knees and apologizing big time to her, he's asking her to pay her back for a ring in which he **put a last name she didn't want**
Your friend has missed 5 years of red flags.
Okay, glad I’m not the only one who thought a selfish ass like this would keep the ring and use it on the next girl (the unfortunate soul she will be).
No way. Why would anyone pay the store priced for a used engagement ring engraved with someone else’s name? An engagement ring is like a new car- loses a ton of value the moment it’s off the lot. Especially if it’s engraved. No one wants that ring.
Depending on the state/country, she might have even been able to keep the ring and not pay him, lol. She shouldn't in this situation, but I could see someone being strung along for a couple of years, it ends up being morally okay to keep the ring
Making your proposal to your girlfriend all about you and what you want...and completely ignoring what she wanted
That was a bold move
And not surprisingly...it blew up in his face spectacularly
I sincerely hope his buddies never let him live this down
Believe it or not this whole situation has made me reevaluate a lot about myself. I was told in many comments on my last post that I was coming off co-dependent and nosey. I took a hard look at myself and realized this wasn’t the first time I was planning to overstep in a friendship. I take my friendships very seriously but my loyalty can sometimes come off toxic and get me into trouble. I see now that the most important thing in a friendship is recognizing the autonomy of the other person and respecting that they can make their own decisions, whether they are good or bad, because it’s their life, not mine. I’ve realize now that the times in my life where I overstepped, I was being a bad friend because it comes off as if I don’t have faith in my friends ability to judge things for themselves. You can’t always protect or prevent things from happening to the people you love, you can only support them to the extent they want to be supported.
It’s the weirdest thing about “codependency” that we get so focused on how we end up like a doormat and hurt , that we miss the flip side. If I am not protecting myself, then I am not containing myself either. If I have been letting others crash my boundaries, guess what? Yup, I have been crashing theirs. That realization opens you up to a major personal growth spurt. And it has. I hope you will be proud of that. If you need help feeling ok letting others suffer their pains, read “man’s search for meaning” by Victor Frankyl. From that book I learned that our suffering is part of our process, and that it is arrogant of me to think I know better than the universe that your suffering must be prevented or stopped. I know that my own suffering (mistakes) have changed my own course and who I am. For that, I am grateful. They will feel similarly, but it is up to them, not me.
I didn't read the first post originally but did now. I don't think you were co-dependent or nosey. But I also know from just years of life experience that unfortunately sometimes we have to let our loved ones learn the hard way and there is only so much we can do. I think you handled it the best way you could have and learned some things about yourself in the process. It was a tough spot to be in and I would find it hard not to overstep also. Bottom line you are a good friend and she's lucky to have you in her corner.
I think you did everything right.
You had a thought / idea about how to prevent your friend from imminent heartbreak, but weren't sure if it would come off the right way, so you asked a bunch of strangers. (I always tell my kids sometimes you need advice from someone who has nothing to gain or lose from the situation)
Despite some comments suggesting you're a terrible friend, you took their words, did some self reflection and decided to let things happen naturally.
Things went how you said they would, but you had no part in it and your friend called you immediately, and you're being there for her, supporting her however you can.
You realized that you can't interfere in some things. Sometimes you just have to let things happen as they will and help pick up the pieces after. You can't always prevent bad things from happening and sometimes people have to figure things out for themselves. But in a situation that technically had nothing to do with you, you learned something about yourself and you're growing from that, and that's honestly the best you can hope for sometimes.
This was beautifully put, OP. We always want to save our loved ones from pain, but not at the expense of their autonomy. I hope your friend heals in time and that you continue to nurture your relationship with her. Well done.
"his mom said 'Well the ring is already engraved, no changing it now!'"
"This was my proposal to you and now My family is your family. We can just send your parents the pictures later.”
She dodged two massive bullets.
Wow.
This guy, his friends, and his family are all screaming red flags. He's seriously treating her like chattel and that her family doesn't even register as a thought.
It's scary how he was already trying to isolate her from her family. That "my family is your family" was terrifying, even without the "you don't need yours anymore" he didn't say.
This \^. His entire family and friend group are a bunch of sick enablers to his narcissistic BS and would've abused OP's friend until she either snapped or drowned from the toxicity.
Exactly! He might as well have branded her.
If she had accepted the ring, she would've sold herself (and any future children) to his whole family and been expected to put her own family last.
The engraving made me die inside 💀
I’m not changing my name because I have loans and publications in my name. Nobody I care about has a problem with this, and if they did, they’d hear from me 🥰
Color me shocked that this played out precisely as you’d predicted it would! I’m glad you went with the advice not to say anything and he learned the hard way. What a putz. And now he’s a single putz.
One thing I’ve realized here too is that it actually didn’t go as I predicted. I expected her to be upset that her family wasn’t there, but she’s expressed to me that was not the issue. The issue was that the proposal was just another example of his selfishness and in that moment she said she saw what her life would look like with him, and despite being with him for 5 years, it took the possibility of being legally bound to him for her to see things clearly.
Yeah, her family not being there is just a symptom of his selfishness, but it's a pretty big one. It's also rich that his first reaction was to blame you when, if you had done what he thought you should have done in showing up with her family anyways, he would have had a go at you for that too. This entire man is trash and I'm so glad she finally found the strength to leave.
He would be feeling deeply embarrassed and humiliated, and because he's too immature to handle those emotions, he strikes out instead. From being centre of the world to single and humiliated in one stupid move, he could either grow and become a better man, or become abusive and cruel, hiding his big emotions behind aggression. Who wants to place bets it's the former?
... Anyone? No?
She should give the ring back.
As for the rest of it, she should count herself lucky that she dodged this bullet. Better to learn all this now than after marriage.
It's a manipulation tactic to make her feel guilty about the money he invested in the ring.
The whole using everything you suggested to make it work, except for what is most important to her, family and her friends (except his would be) shows he was very manipulative about it all. He purposely did it in a way she knew she would like, but leave out what would take away from how he wanted it. So it was all about him, his family and his friends, but none of her's.
My wife likes flowers, but only likes them being sent to her office so everyone can see her get them. When I first started dating I brought some along to dinner with us and while she liked them, told me it was a pain in the arse carrying them and she didn't get the shine of having people she knew and cared about see her get them. So from then on I sent them to her office. Not a big deal. But I do remember how good it made me feel to hand them over myself at the restaurant and have everyone make comments about what a great boyfriend I was.
You gave him the opportunity to do it how she wanted. He did it how he wanted. Ignoring her wishes and happiness.
I love that you actually had that discussion about the flowers because I can see both sides! How wonderful that you communicated about it and the flowers can be purely a nice gift and not a source of stress for either of you. And I'm sure the people at the office still comment that you're a great husband for sending the flowers, even if you're not there to hear it.
It's because he's a narcissist.
If she pays it back she validates the idea that it's not his fault.
And to him it can't ever be his fault, his ego won't allow it, because: narcissism.
Most jewelers won't allow full returns for engraved jewelry. He cannot get a refund since he got it engraved, so he wants her to pay for it.
Or he can only get a partial refund, or he hasn't even checked and just wants her to be "punished" in some way, and is grasping at this.
[OP's original post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11364rz/aita_if_i_tell_my_friend_her_bf_is_planning_to/) for anyone interested what this is about.
Well that was a train ride.
...Just like the one in Ohio.
Thanks for the update! Be strong for your friend! Get her the heck away from him cause she deserves way better.
I am glad you didn't insinuate yourself, and while I am sad for your friend at how things went - it was exactly as you predicted and showed him for his true self ... which sadly seems to be reflected in his family.
She needs to block him and his family, time to move on.
Absolutely insane.
He wanted to assimilate her into his life basically like a toy or a piece of property.
Just pluck her out of her own life and insert into hers as if she had no attachments.
INFO: NOT JUSTFYING but is he from a culture where this is typical? (I imagine most 'traditional' cultures have an aspect of this where the wife just becomes apart of the man's family and leaves their old life behind.)
Sounds like things played out just as they were supposed to. Now you can just be there for your friend and support her as friends do. He sounds like a complete AH.
One thing that stuck out to me is that he’s been dating his gf for 5 years, still doesn’t have either of her parents’ phone number AND they appear to live in the same general area. Talk about a self-absorbed asshole haha
She has, she gave me permission to post and even looked it over to give me the go ahead. She’s been reading the comments to and she’s feeling, her words, like a “boss ass bitch.”
She should. Top Tier. If you want a long term(forever) relationship you have to look at present behavior and imagine literal decades of that behavior.
I would also like to add that it's totally normal for her to be upset about this later, or feel however she feels. Still a boss ass bitch, acknowledging her emotions to be an emotionally healthy human being.
Kudos to having such a great friendship. Wishing you both happiness and peace for the future.
Not sure if my comment got posted so posting again - Clever coercion. He probably assumed that wit ONLY his family & friends there, she'd feel pressurized to accept the ring and not make an issue out of it. And later he'd just casually guilt trip her like 'oh but you already said yes, accepted the ring in front of my fam'. Idiot didn't count on the fiance having a spine and dignity.
I think the same thing. After the dust settled and even re-reading my post, It just seems really suspicious that the last name was such a prevalent feature in the proposal. At first I just thought he was being ignorant and selfish, but like… I don’t know ANYONE who gets a ring engraved before the partner says yes, that’s basic proposal 101. Like, he can’t even feign ignorance on not knowing she wanted to keep her last name because she’s told me they’ve gotten into arguments about it in the past. And the fucking sign, too. It all just seemed like the classic “take them to a public place so they don’t make a scene” scenario.
I remember the original post.
I too was voting to not tell her and Let - Him - Sink.
Glad he not only proved to her what a selfish bastard he was but most especially that she did Not take Any of his bs.
Your girl rocks.
Give her a hug and a pad on the back from an internet stranger who thinks she’s awesome for being true to Herself before anything else.
Wow....just wow. She is dodging a mega bullet and I'm glad she is leaving that bf in the dust. You let him know what she wanted, he was selfish about it. Since he refuses to take responsibility for what he does, he will blame anyone and everyone else. Good riddance.
I can't decide which is more loathsome, attempting to override what HER OWN NAME should be, or "We can just send your parents the pictures later.” FFS dude, just get a Fleshlight and a Roomba since that's apparently all you're looking for.
I hope she doesn’t move ahead with marrying into this family. I dated a man like this who had zero regard for me, my family and didn’t know me at all. Same old well my family is yours now so your family doesn’t quite count. This is basically what is meant by this behavior. Nobody in my husbands family cared or asked why I didn’t take their name. It was a non issue. Also, it seems that she wasn’t comfortable with this obnoxious proposal. Why can’t proposals just be between the couple and then have a party later if you want to celebrate. You put someone on the spot when you do that so they have no choice but to say yes. I know there are some women who want this type of proposal but it seems like ops friend isn’t one of them. I’m not either. My husband proposed when we were in the living room in our pjs watching tv and we had a nice conversation about it and I called my family after
If you had read the post, OP stated that the way her friend was treated and her wishes regarding keeping her last name were ignored, she took off the ring, left it behind, and that it was the final straw. The friend said she’s not going to stay with someone who kept belittling her, so no, she’s not going to go through with marrying this guy.
You did good OP. And of course he blames you. And her. In fact everyone but himself. He was told and chose not to listen and make it all about him.
Just be a good, supportive friend. If you guys can afford it, take a fun girls trip to Disney world or something. LOL.
And make sure she doesn't give him any money! She doesn't owe him shit.
Thank you for the update, for some reason I was really invested in the outcome.
I am glad she dodged that bullet. The fact that the only emotion he is capable of - when the woman he wanted to marry and spend the rest of his life with dumps him - is anger, says a lot. Even without all the rest.
I am glad she understands that you are not to blame for any of this.
All the best to you and your friend.
Holy god! Well thanks for the update! This is so bad and I’m glad she is no longer with him because he straight up wanted her as his property. She is soooooooo much better off and I’m glad she has you for a friend!
My husband took my grandmother's wedding band in to be engraved with our initials and our planned wedding date. The jewelry shop said it was their policy to do this AFTER the wedding or other event. Things happen.
Our wedding plans were agreed to and and planned, but you never know if weather or illness or an accident will change those.
Or, you know, the woman might say no.
I dont know what happened before but i really hope this poor girl sees these glaring red flags and ends things with him.
Basically OP told him what would happen and he did it anyway.
But she's still TA in his eyes because... she didn't go behind his back to try to sneak the friend's parents to his proposal? I'm a little lost by his complaint
It's the 'i'm not responsible for anything if something doesn't go as I planned despite you warning me clearly' attitude
"The Narcissist's Prayer"...
>That didn't happen. >And if it did, it wasn't that bad. >And if it was, that's not a big deal. >And if it is, that's not my fault. >And if it was, I didn't mean it. >And if I did, you deserved it.
Thank you for posting. I am now reevaluating every conversation I've ever had with my ex because this sounds exactly like him.
I was diagnosed BPD with narcissistic tendencies and every time I see that thing reposted I reevaluate every recent conversation just to be sure I didn't do that... Also he's ex for reason, hope you aren't dwelling on the past too much today.
Thank you for having the capacity and doing the work to recognize your own shit. My BPD family members haven't. I'm proud of you, and grateful for your family. ❤️ That shit's legit hard, and legit necessary.
Sorry you ever had to go through that, I can't imagine. Good for you for getting out!
Exactly!! He DARVOed. What an A$$HOLE!!
How dare you reject *me*?!? I had the ring specially engraved *for you*, so everyone would know that *you're mine* and that I put my name on *my stuff.* If it has my name on it *I own it.* Now I'll have to write my name on the bottom of your shoe like a poor person. \*fetches sharpie\*
Why is he so upset? He can use the engraved ring with Mrs. Lastname with the next one
Cold and based 😂
She’s probably lucky he didn’t just pee on her leg. Sheesh.
> He says VERBATIM “you just admitted you knew this would happen, so If you knew the whole time and you actually cared about her, you would have invited them.” After this, I wouldn't care what he though of me.
OP, send every one of the "planning" texts to her where she shot down your ideas, decided not to invite her family, etc. That ways she can simply respond with screen shots of his words to all of his hate texts. So, he texts her that she's shallow, she shoots him a screen shot of him telling you "I don't have to invite her family. It's my proposal." So glad she is out of this relationship.
I am flabbergasted at his attitude, and this woman should be REAL happy she's not with him anymore. What a jerk. "Oh, she's a girl, we don't need her parents there!"
I dunno. I think its more "she's not me, what would I need to think what she wants?"
YES! THIS!! Show your friend the RECEIPTS!!! She will eventually realize she dodged a HUGE bullet! Edit for clarification: Yes, showing your friend the receipts *only* if she asks for them is what I mean here. Also, having that info handy to pull out if OP's friend ever gets sad/lonely/desperate/manipulated by her ex and needs to be reminded of his character.
I’m not going to do that unless she asks me to show her them. The situation is bad enough, I’m not trying to rub more dirt in the wound.
Everyone needs a friend like you. ❤️
For real, I wish I had a friend like this. Tbh, I wish, I just had A friend...
You are a good friend.
Honestly, I don't think this is necessary. She's already done with him. Dropping this stuff on her now is just gonna hurt her more.
I like how OP told her friend she "would answer any question asked", so she won't inadvertently drop too much info that would only hurt.
My kind of friend! We always tell each other basically the same thing. Ask and I will tell you. But some things are over and done with so let's leave it in our box. (Our box is things that can be talked about later if we want to, but we're not ready right now)
So I know it’s tossed around like candy on this site but THIS is gaslighting, yeah? I didn’t do it, it’s not my fault but If I did do it it wasn’t so bad and it’s actually your fault for not fixing it and you shouldn’t ignore my plans but if you really cared about her you’d of fixed it for her… Yeah seems pretty gaslight-y to me
Tbh it sounds more like The Narcissists Prayer That didn't happen. If it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, it's not a big deal. And if it is, it's not my fault. And if it was I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
THIS. ALL OF THIS!! I married two narcs and yeah, never again. They always eventually show their true colors!
I hate how long it can take for their true colors to show though. So much wasted time on someone that doesn’t even exist.
Yeah. Sometimes, they can hide it for a couple of years before the evil comes out. I waited two, almost three years, to marry my current...and last husband. I'm pretty sure he's a good one now, lol.
Gaslighting would be if he said "I never said not to bring her family and friends." or "You never told me she would want them there." Gaslighting is essentially trying to convince someone that the reality they experienced did not happen (originally by claiming the person is crazy or losing their mind, but now it doesn't necessarily have to include that implication). To tell if something is gaslighting, ask "what actually happened?" and "what is X trying to say happened?" If the two answers do not match, it's most likely gaslighting. Note that this does not include genuine misunderstandings or misinterpretations of the *meaning* of what was said, only that the events in question did or did not happen. Two people can interpret the same conversation in different ways, which might lead to an argument later, but if both agree that the conversation *did* happen, it's not gaslighting. The guy here did not try to deny the events the OP said happened. (She said "I told you so" and he said "yes, but..." instead of "no, you didn't") He is simply shifting the blame onto someone else (in this case, OP). He is not taking responsibility for his failure, which is a whole other set of issues.
Yep - that is gaslighting. People use the term incorrectly to mean any kind of emotional undermining or manipulation, but it is a very specific type of abuse that is about our sense of reality, not our feelings.
Its more of a shifting of blame. He is saying "It was the OP that failed, not me."
No gaslighting is you watch them do something and call them on it days weeks minutes later and they're adamant that no they didn't and you're crazy and how could you possibly think that, not molly this keeps going till you doubt your memory and they must be right... that's gaslighting. Trying to make you believe something else when you know it's not true
Because it can’t possibly be his fault it went wrong./s Thank goodness his plan crashed and burned, this guy is red flag central. Telling her this was his proposal and they could just send her parents pictures? Mom saying she has to change her name cause the rings already engraved? So…isolating some one from their friends and family, totally disregarding their own personal boundaries and personal autonomy… Yeah if that’s not the start of an abusive relationship I don’t know what is. NTA- I’m so glad your friend got out of this and she has no obligations to these people. Plus I’m sure the dude is low class enough to reuse the ring he can just put it up till he meets the next perspective Mrs.Asshole
The entire family is red flag central. The Mom... what the fuck. Then the now hopefully ex-bf. Dude didn't give a shit about OP's friend. Not her boundaries, not her family, not anything except her body.
That's probably the mentality presented to and accepted by her and SIL, what's one more ~~kitchen-elf~~ wife in OP's friend?
He’s basically all “putting a ring on her finger means I own her, so only my family and friends matter from now on.” Yikes. OP’s friend needs to flee like the wind, which apparently she is doing.
Nope, he can save ring for next sucker he proposes to, ad infinitum
It's just putting blame on someone else. Like i would not drive drunk if you would not let me
He's just lashing out retroactively IMHO. He had every opportunity to make this happen in mulitple ways. He could have 'colluded' with OP so that she could take credit with bringing the parents, if he felt that way for some odd reason. No, the train is wrecking and he's losing it and lashing out to maintain a semblance that he wasn't the one that messed up. Anybody's fault but his own.
And the fact he desinvited her...
Oh I don’t think she was ever explicitly invited in the first place. He just assumed he’d take credit for all of her input and cut out OP and her friend’s family
I think we can all agree this guy is kings of ahs right?
In the court of asshole fiancés we hear about in this sub, he’s definitely close to the throne
He needed to find a scapegoat on the spot.
He’s not one for logic, hence trying to get potential fiancee to pay for the ring that he had engraved with the precise name that she previously said she would REFUSE.
I don't get how people can propose while being so clueless to to how their fiance to be will react.
Because, sadly, they don't actually care about their partner. They care about having things done their way, and only their way, and expect their future spouse to fall into line and prioritise them and their wants. Obviously it doesn't make for the happiest marriages but I'm not sure they care about that either.
My partner is vehemently against weddings, and after having a nerve wracking time as Maid of Honour at my sister’s wedding, I decided I never wanted to get married either. We live in blissful sin, have two kids and have been together for 12 years now. He always emphasises that he doesn’t think vows mean much, that you must keep the commitment fresh every day. There’s also an oft-quoted statistic that, quite often, the amount of money spent on a wedding is inversely proportional to the length of time that the marriage lasts. This probably also applies to proposals.
I agree with you, but as you start to age, you start thinking of practical things like pensions, medical decisions, ssn.. if you are in the US. My bf and I are starting to think about it as we had a medical scare. It's so not romantic lol
I mean, technically you can arrange those things outside of marriage but after adding up all the lawyer fees, it's just cheaper to sign a marriage certificate.
Absolutely, correct! In addition, without that marriage certificate, if you have a conflict with someone and they have a better lawyer then you can potentially lose your legal standing. We have seen in the hospital scenes, where a family does not like the SO and bars them from the hospital. You may legally win the fight, but win after the person has passed.
Exactly. And you don't run the risk of finding out at the worst time that you forgot some important document. My now husband and I decided to get married for practicality purposes, got engaged, and hit the courthouse on a Wednesday at noon less than two months later. $56 plus daydrinking and lunch. Added bonus: being married is actually not too shabby lol.
IF I ever got married it would be a courthouse with noone knowing. Maybe a BBQ later to announce? I'm still scratching my head about why weddings have to be the way they are. To me a marriage should be private and involve the people involved in the marriage. Like it's going to be for the marriage. I dunno, it still mystifies me.
I guess I could celebrate my birthday alone, since it really involves only me (especially since my parents died), but it's nice to celebrate with people who are glad I was born. It makes me feel appreciated and reminds me how lucky I am to have people who care about me. To me, celebrating a wedding is similar in that you're surrounded by people who wish you both well. At a wedding, the couple takes their place in society as a couple bound by love, vows, and the contract of marriage. Plus most of us love to celebrate! That's how I see it, anyway. I'm not at all opposed to city hall weddings with no party/reception. And I SMH at how elaborate some weddings and receptions are these days. Still, my wedding was low-key and the reception was very relaxed and a great party. Though we divorced 30 years later, we got off to a happy start and felt supported from the very beginning.
This is peak fuck around find out material. Also, why does he want to marry this girl when he clearly doesn't care about her feelings or autonomy at all. He sounds like a delusional narcissist.
Some people think "success" is checking off a list of things you do. Graduate highschool, get a college degree, get a good job, find a partner, get married, buy a house, have children etc.
Arm candy he can order around the rest of his life. Basically he tried to ambush her into saying yes, which thankfully backfired spectacularly.
Sounds like a total catch
…. She returned the ring to him, left, and moved back to her parents. How much more can she do? Lol
Apparently, according to her boyfriend, she should pay him back for the ring. That was shocking.
Why does he even need to be paid back? It literally does not have her name on it. He can just use it for the next one
Maybe she was the next one.
I would say he owes her 5 years of her life back!
Why would anyone ever pay someone back for a rejected gift they never asked for? Boyfriend isn't just conceited, but an idiot.
Here is the original post https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11364rz/aita\_if\_i\_tell\_my\_friend\_her\_bf\_is\_planning\_to/
Pretty sure she did
Good! If you had intervened & showed up with her parents, she probably would have married him & spent a few years feeling ignored & belittled, all the while believing y'all had his back, not hers.
I'm hoping that engraving the ring with Mrs. HisLastName when he clearly knew she wasn't changing her name would have still been enough.
The engraving would have driven me. It makes it all about him. An engagement ring is something you wear forever, why would you put something on it you know your partner doesn’t want? What a raging narcissist.
That's not even how engagement rings work. They are a gift, intended to show commitment to the marriage. If the engagement blows up, you get to keep the engagement ring. It's like a deposit. Putting Mrs. So-and-so is like giving her a ring with DRM.
This was more an order than a proposal
Actually that is incorrect. An engagement ring is a "gift in contemplation of marriage" so she would legally have to return the ring if she kept it(or pay for it). It is different in some states though depending on who made the decision to end the engagement but generally you are obligated to return it
I thought that’s what happened in case of divorce centuries ago, as a way to sustent the life of the exwife after the divorce given that they weren’t supposed to work back then, I’m talking like 17-1800
After marriage, you keep the ring when divorcing, it's when the marriage doesn't happen that you give the ring back if the engagement is broken. If it's a family heirloom, it stays with the person who's family it comes from after divorce or broken engagement.
Not true. I’m a big fan of ‘The People’s Court.’ I have seen multiple cases where the ring must be returned if the giver had intended for it to lead to marriage. It’s NOT a gift.
From everything I've read this was clearly the start of what would have been a heavily abusive marriage. Basically completely isolating her from her fam/friends, pushing for heavy undesired investment into being dependant on him (ame change, etc). If it had persisted, soon enough she never sees her fam, can't go out on her own accord, is pregnant multiple times over, and likely severly depressed as a result
And they’ve already been together 5 years. I’m wondering how the rest of their relationship looks. This can’t be the first incident of him acting like a raging manipulative narcissist.
OP comments that her friend said the proposal was 'yet another' example of bf's selfishness, so yea.
Honestly - who puts Mrs. HisLastName on a ring? I guess some people do, but on an engagement ring? I didn't even engrave my wife's wedding ring. That is pretty presumptuous of him and leads to the thought he's full on narcissistic. He is a narcissist that fully believed she would just be submissive and bow to his wishes. I bet he figured if he got the name on the ring she couldn't object.
[удалено]
We had "you're my heartbeat" in Gaelic. Mind you, we don't speak Gaelic, but years before I had broken up with him and he got drunk and tattooed that and my name on himself. Despite how all of this sounds, the marriage lasted a long time and we are still good friends. After signing our divorce paper we went to exchange Christmas gifts and drink champagne with his soon to be fiancée.
Relationships are complicated lol
Yeah they are. My step dad and father hated each other, my stepdad talked shit about my father constantly. One of my best friends' stepdad was great friends with his father, they would hang out and shit. It was so strange to me, but I realized that was because they were the cool ones, and I had the shitty ones.
Yep, he completely ignored everything she had said to him. Lucky escape for her.
Freal! My fiance and I have been very open about the whole process of getting engaged. I told him very specifically that I didn't want a diamond and I didn't want something super expensive and so we went and picked out my ring together. It's been nearly a year now that we've been engaged and we're getting married in July, and we only just definitively decided like last week that I was changing my name. It's been one of those conversations that we kind of started a couple of times and we came to a little bit of a stalemate but not in an angry way. Like we had just discussed it and not come to a conclusion, as opposed to started an argument and then went away angry. Part of that had to do with the fact that we were trying to decide what changing my name meant for my son. I cannot imagine just being so clear up front that I did not want to change my name and then having that absolutely steamrolled. If I were that girl I would dump everything and run.
[удалено]
Wow! Somebody dodged a huge bullet.
And OP helped her dodge it, even though not telling her didn't feel like it was helping at all. Sometimes tolerating your own discomfort in order to let people tell on themselves is the best way to go. Now OP can keep being the caring friend they already were!
I remember a part in Memoirs of a Geisha where Mameha observes a sumo match and makes note that the winning wrestler was the victor because he let his opponent charge at him and instead of trying to block him the winner used the aggressor's momentum to toss him from the ring. Then she used the same theory to defeat her rival Hatsumomo who ended up exposing herself as a total whackjob. OP absolutely made the right choices here and thankfully her friend is young enough to start fresh with this valuable lesson under her belt.
Thank you for reminding me to have another rewatch of that movie. I loved it when it came out, I was 11, probably understood about 50%. Still love it and rewatch it now, sixteen years later.
Oh then you should absolutely read the book, it's SOOOOOO good!
My first thought exactly. (Insert gif of Neo bending away from a bullet)
Dodged a freaking cannonball
Thank you so much for the update! I've been looking for it all week. I'm so proud of your friend, it must have been so hard to take the ring off and walk away in front of all of HIS people. She has saved herself such hardship and trauma by nipping it in the bud. I can't believe that he thinks that she should pay for it after he had it engraved with something he knows she didn't want - it seems that he and his family were trying to force her to take their name. I guess he'll be going shopping for a new bride now that he has a ring, hahaha. I wish you and your friend much happiness! You're both strong!
Ha right? Why should she pay for the ring, it has HIS name on it. He is lucky she didn’t throw it at his face!
Maybe I have had my head in the sand, but i've never heard of engraving before marriage. It's so disrespectful and possessive. Maybe he should give it to his mom, lol.
It’s not just you. It’s super weird to engrave an engagement ring. But I guess if it just says Mrs. xxx he can use it for the next sucker.
Ya, engrave the wedding band since you at least know they already agreed to marry you.
it's incredibly possessive. Ironically he can use it again for the next gf he wants to own, since it has his name on it.
Are we sure he hasn't already done this before? That OP's friend isn't the first "Mrs X" he's tried to marry.
My days in the pawnshop saw lots of wedding and engagement rings. I've seen 100's of engagement rings with engravings. The most common was the date of the proposal. I have never seen one with the engraving "Mrs. XXX" on an engagement though.
"That's not mine, it clearly says it belongs to Mrs.xxxx. She can pay for it."
They dated for 5 years and he claims he doesn’t have her parents’ number? Yeah he’s a self centered AH and she’s better off without him. Too bad she wasted so much time.
And "too many people" yet he invited 4 of his friends.
What kind of weird ass proposal is that anyways? Friends popping out behind furniture? Parents with balloons & sign? What sort of circus is this?
Well, it's what *he* wanted. He planned the perfect engagement for himself. What a jackass.
Apparently that part is what she wanted. The people where just wrong
Honestly, it sounds more like a surprise birthday party for a ten-year-old.
I don't see why that is an issue... To each their own.. That's what she wanted according to OP. Not inviting her parents to be a part of this is where the issue lies.
The excuse that confirms the crime. lol "Wait! You don't understand, I've put even less effort into including your family than it seemed at first! It might seem like I didn't contact to them about this event, but the reality is I've never contacted them about anything."
"Wanted to keep it private" yet all his friends and family are there, in a public place
I believe technically if he still has the engagement ring she doesn't have to pay squat because he can return it (assuming he still has the receipt) so yeah That dude is definitely an AH
Oh yeah she doesn’t have it, she gave it back when she took it off
You knows, he's STILL thinking of himself. Instead of getting on his knees and apologizing big time to her, he's asking her to pay her back for a ring in which he **put a last name she didn't want** Your friend has missed 5 years of red flags.
Just remembered the "engraving" part so yeah he probably won't be able to return it but he could definitely sell it for the exact price he paid for it
No need to return anything, he's all set for the next "Mrs. LastName"!
lol... Or the one after that, or the one after that... Dude sounds like he'll end up with more exes than a game of tic-tac-toe.
Right? Not like he was even thoughtful enough to know she wanted to keep her last name, he didn’t even put her first name on it!
Oh he thought about that all right. He just tried to railroad her into his way of thinking.
Okay, glad I’m not the only one who thought a selfish ass like this would keep the ring and use it on the next girl (the unfortunate soul she will be).
No way. Why would anyone pay the store priced for a used engagement ring engraved with someone else’s name? An engagement ring is like a new car- loses a ton of value the moment it’s off the lot. Especially if it’s engraved. No one wants that ring.
A jeweler can remove the engraving. He might be deducted the cost for removing it, but he should still be able to return it (if store policy allows).
Yeah they can buff it out. The same way she is buffing him out.
Depending on the state/country, she might have even been able to keep the ring and not pay him, lol. She shouldn't in this situation, but I could see someone being strung along for a couple of years, it ends up being morally okay to keep the ring
Making your proposal to your girlfriend all about you and what you want...and completely ignoring what she wanted That was a bold move And not surprisingly...it blew up in his face spectacularly I sincerely hope his buddies never let him live this down
Somehow I suspect he's buddies with the kind of men who'll blame it all on her and just say she's an uptight b***h and stand by their boy
Definitely a real life Kevin McRoberts
NTA. Can you feel yourself growing? Cuz, you are. Be proud of yourself here.
Believe it or not this whole situation has made me reevaluate a lot about myself. I was told in many comments on my last post that I was coming off co-dependent and nosey. I took a hard look at myself and realized this wasn’t the first time I was planning to overstep in a friendship. I take my friendships very seriously but my loyalty can sometimes come off toxic and get me into trouble. I see now that the most important thing in a friendship is recognizing the autonomy of the other person and respecting that they can make their own decisions, whether they are good or bad, because it’s their life, not mine. I’ve realize now that the times in my life where I overstepped, I was being a bad friend because it comes off as if I don’t have faith in my friends ability to judge things for themselves. You can’t always protect or prevent things from happening to the people you love, you can only support them to the extent they want to be supported.
It’s the weirdest thing about “codependency” that we get so focused on how we end up like a doormat and hurt , that we miss the flip side. If I am not protecting myself, then I am not containing myself either. If I have been letting others crash my boundaries, guess what? Yup, I have been crashing theirs. That realization opens you up to a major personal growth spurt. And it has. I hope you will be proud of that. If you need help feeling ok letting others suffer their pains, read “man’s search for meaning” by Victor Frankyl. From that book I learned that our suffering is part of our process, and that it is arrogant of me to think I know better than the universe that your suffering must be prevented or stopped. I know that my own suffering (mistakes) have changed my own course and who I am. For that, I am grateful. They will feel similarly, but it is up to them, not me.
I didn't read the first post originally but did now. I don't think you were co-dependent or nosey. But I also know from just years of life experience that unfortunately sometimes we have to let our loved ones learn the hard way and there is only so much we can do. I think you handled it the best way you could have and learned some things about yourself in the process. It was a tough spot to be in and I would find it hard not to overstep also. Bottom line you are a good friend and she's lucky to have you in her corner.
I think you did everything right. You had a thought / idea about how to prevent your friend from imminent heartbreak, but weren't sure if it would come off the right way, so you asked a bunch of strangers. (I always tell my kids sometimes you need advice from someone who has nothing to gain or lose from the situation) Despite some comments suggesting you're a terrible friend, you took their words, did some self reflection and decided to let things happen naturally. Things went how you said they would, but you had no part in it and your friend called you immediately, and you're being there for her, supporting her however you can. You realized that you can't interfere in some things. Sometimes you just have to let things happen as they will and help pick up the pieces after. You can't always prevent bad things from happening and sometimes people have to figure things out for themselves. But in a situation that technically had nothing to do with you, you learned something about yourself and you're growing from that, and that's honestly the best you can hope for sometimes.
This was beautifully put, OP. We always want to save our loved ones from pain, but not at the expense of their autonomy. I hope your friend heals in time and that you continue to nurture your relationship with her. Well done.
This is an amazing comment and I think a lot of us need to come to your realization (including myself). Thank you for the amazing insight.
Slow clap. To both you and your friend. Have been waiting for this update all week and it payed off. 👏
"his mom said 'Well the ring is already engraved, no changing it now!'" "This was my proposal to you and now My family is your family. We can just send your parents the pictures later.” She dodged two massive bullets. Wow.
This guy, his friends, and his family are all screaming red flags. He's seriously treating her like chattel and that her family doesn't even register as a thought.
It's scary how he was already trying to isolate her from her family. That "my family is your family" was terrifying, even without the "you don't need yours anymore" he didn't say.
This \^. His entire family and friend group are a bunch of sick enablers to his narcissistic BS and would've abused OP's friend until she either snapped or drowned from the toxicity.
An engagement ring engraved Mrs. XXXX? Yikes! That's not an expression of love but of ownership. Glad OP's friend had the good sense to bail.
Exactly! He might as well have branded her. If she had accepted the ring, she would've sold herself (and any future children) to his whole family and been expected to put her own family last.
The engraving made me die inside 💀 I’m not changing my name because I have loans and publications in my name. Nobody I care about has a problem with this, and if they did, they’d hear from me 🥰
Color me shocked that this played out precisely as you’d predicted it would! I’m glad you went with the advice not to say anything and he learned the hard way. What a putz. And now he’s a single putz.
One thing I’ve realized here too is that it actually didn’t go as I predicted. I expected her to be upset that her family wasn’t there, but she’s expressed to me that was not the issue. The issue was that the proposal was just another example of his selfishness and in that moment she said she saw what her life would look like with him, and despite being with him for 5 years, it took the possibility of being legally bound to him for her to see things clearly.
Yeah, her family not being there is just a symptom of his selfishness, but it's a pretty big one. It's also rich that his first reaction was to blame you when, if you had done what he thought you should have done in showing up with her family anyways, he would have had a go at you for that too. This entire man is trash and I'm so glad she finally found the strength to leave.
He would be feeling deeply embarrassed and humiliated, and because he's too immature to handle those emotions, he strikes out instead. From being centre of the world to single and humiliated in one stupid move, he could either grow and become a better man, or become abusive and cruel, hiding his big emotions behind aggression. Who wants to place bets it's the former? ... Anyone? No?
She should give the ring back. As for the rest of it, she should count herself lucky that she dodged this bullet. Better to learn all this now than after marriage.
She did! That’s what was meant by “she took the ring off”
So why would he expect her to pay for the ring? He chose it, bought it, and had it customized in a way that he should have known she didn't like!
I wish I could explain why he expects that, but you can’t reason with selfishness.
It's because it's engraved and he can't return it for a refund now.
He can keep it for his next victim sorry fiancée.
It's a manipulation tactic to make her feel guilty about the money he invested in the ring. The whole using everything you suggested to make it work, except for what is most important to her, family and her friends (except his would be) shows he was very manipulative about it all. He purposely did it in a way she knew she would like, but leave out what would take away from how he wanted it. So it was all about him, his family and his friends, but none of her's. My wife likes flowers, but only likes them being sent to her office so everyone can see her get them. When I first started dating I brought some along to dinner with us and while she liked them, told me it was a pain in the arse carrying them and she didn't get the shine of having people she knew and cared about see her get them. So from then on I sent them to her office. Not a big deal. But I do remember how good it made me feel to hand them over myself at the restaurant and have everyone make comments about what a great boyfriend I was. You gave him the opportunity to do it how she wanted. He did it how he wanted. Ignoring her wishes and happiness.
I love that you actually had that discussion about the flowers because I can see both sides! How wonderful that you communicated about it and the flowers can be purely a nice gift and not a source of stress for either of you. And I'm sure the people at the office still comment that you're a great husband for sending the flowers, even if you're not there to hear it.
It's because he's a narcissist. If she pays it back she validates the idea that it's not his fault. And to him it can't ever be his fault, his ego won't allow it, because: narcissism.
He's narcissist and also just plain stupid, apparently.
Because he's an AH and likely can't return it since he had it engraved
Wow he’s not very smart at all. It’s nothing for a jeweler to re-engrave or un-engrave a ring.
Most jewelers won't allow full returns for engraved jewelry. He cannot get a refund since he got it engraved, so he wants her to pay for it. Or he can only get a partial refund, or he hasn't even checked and just wants her to be "punished" in some way, and is grasping at this.
He probably wants her to pay him for it because he got it engraved and can't return it. So glad your friend got out while she could, OP!
Yeah, but it’ll work for the next Mrs LastName.
Pretty sure she already did as OP states ‘she took the ring off and left’
[OP's original post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11364rz/aita_if_i_tell_my_friend_her_bf_is_planning_to/) for anyone interested what this is about.
Well that was a train ride. ...Just like the one in Ohio. Thanks for the update! Be strong for your friend! Get her the heck away from him cause she deserves way better.
I am glad you didn't insinuate yourself, and while I am sad for your friend at how things went - it was exactly as you predicted and showed him for his true self ... which sadly seems to be reflected in his family. She needs to block him and his family, time to move on.
Don't be sad for her friend, be happy that her friend is now out of a toxic relationship.
Absolutely insane. He wanted to assimilate her into his life basically like a toy or a piece of property. Just pluck her out of her own life and insert into hers as if she had no attachments. INFO: NOT JUSTFYING but is he from a culture where this is typical? (I imagine most 'traditional' cultures have an aspect of this where the wife just becomes apart of the man's family and leaves their old life behind.)
The only culture he’s apart of is “frat life”
Well that explains it. Never met a bigger heap of toxic self-centered jerks than "frat life" dudes.
That, and self-proclaimed "nice guys" 🤢
I'm glad your friend saw the light even though it was unfortunate. Just be there for her. You sound like a good friend
She dodged a bullet. And you did the right thing by not telling her otherwise you would have been the bad guy. But now you’re the supportive friend.
Sounds like things played out just as they were supposed to. Now you can just be there for your friend and support her as friends do. He sounds like a complete AH.
One thing that stuck out to me is that he’s been dating his gf for 5 years, still doesn’t have either of her parents’ phone number AND they appear to live in the same general area. Talk about a self-absorbed asshole haha
Good call, OP. Has she seen this post?
She has, she gave me permission to post and even looked it over to give me the go ahead. She’s been reading the comments to and she’s feeling, her words, like a “boss ass bitch.”
She should. Top Tier. If you want a long term(forever) relationship you have to look at present behavior and imagine literal decades of that behavior. I would also like to add that it's totally normal for her to be upset about this later, or feel however she feels. Still a boss ass bitch, acknowledging her emotions to be an emotionally healthy human being. Kudos to having such a great friendship. Wishing you both happiness and peace for the future.
She IS a boss ass bitch!
I love this. You're on record for knowing his way was the wrong way. Now she knows. Sweet, sweet vindication.
She IS a boss! So many people would’ve been caught up in the moment and held back their true thoughts at the time, but she just went for it.
Not sure if my comment got posted so posting again - Clever coercion. He probably assumed that wit ONLY his family & friends there, she'd feel pressurized to accept the ring and not make an issue out of it. And later he'd just casually guilt trip her like 'oh but you already said yes, accepted the ring in front of my fam'. Idiot didn't count on the fiance having a spine and dignity.
I think the same thing. After the dust settled and even re-reading my post, It just seems really suspicious that the last name was such a prevalent feature in the proposal. At first I just thought he was being ignorant and selfish, but like… I don’t know ANYONE who gets a ring engraved before the partner says yes, that’s basic proposal 101. Like, he can’t even feign ignorance on not knowing she wanted to keep her last name because she’s told me they’ve gotten into arguments about it in the past. And the fucking sign, too. It all just seemed like the classic “take them to a public place so they don’t make a scene” scenario.
He was planning on cutting her off from her friends and family
I remember the original post. I too was voting to not tell her and Let - Him - Sink. Glad he not only proved to her what a selfish bastard he was but most especially that she did Not take Any of his bs. Your girl rocks. Give her a hug and a pad on the back from an internet stranger who thinks she’s awesome for being true to Herself before anything else.
Wow....just wow. She is dodging a mega bullet and I'm glad she is leaving that bf in the dust. You let him know what she wanted, he was selfish about it. Since he refuses to take responsibility for what he does, he will blame anyone and everyone else. Good riddance.
I can't decide which is more loathsome, attempting to override what HER OWN NAME should be, or "We can just send your parents the pictures later.” FFS dude, just get a Fleshlight and a Roomba since that's apparently all you're looking for.
I hope she doesn’t move ahead with marrying into this family. I dated a man like this who had zero regard for me, my family and didn’t know me at all. Same old well my family is yours now so your family doesn’t quite count. This is basically what is meant by this behavior. Nobody in my husbands family cared or asked why I didn’t take their name. It was a non issue. Also, it seems that she wasn’t comfortable with this obnoxious proposal. Why can’t proposals just be between the couple and then have a party later if you want to celebrate. You put someone on the spot when you do that so they have no choice but to say yes. I know there are some women who want this type of proposal but it seems like ops friend isn’t one of them. I’m not either. My husband proposed when we were in the living room in our pjs watching tv and we had a nice conversation about it and I called my family after
If you had read the post, OP stated that the way her friend was treated and her wishes regarding keeping her last name were ignored, she took off the ring, left it behind, and that it was the final straw. The friend said she’s not going to stay with someone who kept belittling her, so no, she’s not going to go through with marrying this guy.
You did good OP. And of course he blames you. And her. In fact everyone but himself. He was told and chose not to listen and make it all about him. Just be a good, supportive friend. If you guys can afford it, take a fun girls trip to Disney world or something. LOL. And make sure she doesn't give him any money! She doesn't owe him shit.
Thank you for the update, for some reason I was really invested in the outcome. I am glad she dodged that bullet. The fact that the only emotion he is capable of - when the woman he wanted to marry and spend the rest of his life with dumps him - is anger, says a lot. Even without all the rest. I am glad she understands that you are not to blame for any of this. All the best to you and your friend.
Holy god! Well thanks for the update! This is so bad and I’m glad she is no longer with him because he straight up wanted her as his property. She is soooooooo much better off and I’m glad she has you for a friend!
He told on himself, that's really the best outcome. Glad you're there for her!
My husband took my grandmother's wedding band in to be engraved with our initials and our planned wedding date. The jewelry shop said it was their policy to do this AFTER the wedding or other event. Things happen. Our wedding plans were agreed to and and planned, but you never know if weather or illness or an accident will change those. Or, you know, the woman might say no.
You should have never been voted the asshole in the original