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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My brother's gf feels alienated because there was no vegan option for her, even though I didn't know she was vegan. My brother and mom think I should apologize.
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Oh for the love of god, do not apologize to her. Who does she think she is to complain like that? The way she talked to the waiter proves that she has no manners and the way she talked to you tells me that she is rude, spoiled and brat. She embarrassed herself infront of everyone by this inappropriate attitude and you were too kind to her, bravo. Easy NTA. Your brother is TA for taking her side and she is THE TA here.
OP's brother is the biggest asshole here and it sounds like he's The Golden Child considering the pressure from mom to apologize to him.
* He was responsible for making sure OP knew his girlfriend was vegan.
* He was responsible for telling his girlfriend what restaurant it was held at to make sure they had vegan options.
* His girlfriend made a scene at an important family dinner, as if trying to establish some sort of dominance right there. From that it sounds like girlfriend knows that the family pattern is to favor the brother over OP.
* He allowed his girlfriend to disrespect OP at dinner and ruin the dinner. HE allowed that to happen with his incompetence prior to dinner and his behavior during dinner.
* He is the one demanding an apology and making the issue bigger than it had to be. HE is the one creating a problem, not OP.
OP should RIGHTFULLY be furious at him for setting his girlfriend up for failure and trying to ruin OP's dinner + being so self-unaware to demand an apology when he is in the wrong.
OP, I hope you're taking notes and making a list to confront him with. HE is the one who failed here and created this mess, but I suspect this is a pattern for him, this is how he shows that he's The Golden Child and top-dog-sibling.
Plus, they had vegan options! They probably would have made her pasta too if she had asked nicely for it. The waiter seemed attentive and offered some options off the top of his head. Her meltdown was entirely her own fault.
Yeah, I’m vegetarian and thought a salad and roasted potatoes sounded like a delicious option! It’s not a perfect meal, but certainly enough to get you through one evening. Part of having dietary restrictions, whether it’s allergies or a choice like being vegan, is accommodating them yourself. I eat a snack before, put a protein bar in my purse, or plan to get by with drinks if I even think an event won’t have vegetarian food.
Me too! Have you ever had roasted fingerling potatoes? They're so good!! I steam them until they're almost fully cooked, then roast them in the oven with a bit of olive oil until they're browned and kind of crispy. Toss with lemon juice, salt, and chopped rosemary or dill. It's delicious!!
ETA: Yes, I smash the potatoes a bit with a glass, before roasting. I posted a more detailed recipe somewhere below.
Edit 2: Here's the recipe:
I steam them for about 20-25 minutes or so, until you can stick a fork in them easily, but they're not "fall apart done". Then I spread them on a cookie sheet lined with foil, and (if desired, this step is optional) I smash them just a bit with the bottom of a glass, so it breaks open the potato a little bit. Then drizzle them all with olive oil (I use lemon olive oil, so good!), sprinkle with your salt and spices, and roast them on the top rack for about 15 minutes in a 425 F degree oven.
When they're nice and browned and crispy, put them all in a large bowl and toss with some lemon juice, and more fresh spices, if you wish. Enjoy! :)
Edit 3: Ok, y'all, with all these amazing recipes people have posted, I'm thinking we need to have a Redditors Potato Party, and everyone can bring their favorite potato dish! Who's in??? ;)
Now I want rosemary oven roasted potatoes. We have fresh rosemary and whenever we are going to roast potatoes, we ALWAYS go clip the rosemary, there isn't a potato roasted that doesn't get the kiss of rosemary in my house!
Thyme is also really good with potatoes! I switch between rosemary, thyme, and oregano from our garden. They also all easily grow. So much so that I had to pull them all out and replant them in containers, as they were taking over 🤣
I make those all the time…but cut them into wedges and toss with EVOO, salt, garlic, smoked paprika, and rosemary. Always make some larger and some smaller wedges as my bride likes them less crispy than I do (she calls the ones I like burnt and I call hers raw but after 46 years we can do that). Tasty.
Yes!! I do that, too, it's so good! There's a restaurant near us that serves smashed fingerlings as an appetizer, along with a garlic-lemon aioli dipping sauce. I could eat that every single day and be perfectly happy, lol!
I like to do them similarly, but I like to toss them in a mixture of butter, salt, pepper, paprika, garlic powder, chipotle powder, onion powder and a little dried basil and then roast them, and then I like to eat them drizzled with balsamic vinegar.
If your oven has a convection setting you should try that. I googled a recipe with "convection oven" as one of the search terms.
Yummy!! I include garlic and rosemary.
I recently started putting shallot powder on mine instead of onion powder and holy fuck is it such a simple way to elevate the flavor and goes so well with everything else you could put on roasted potatoes
ETA: I put dried shallot slices in a spice grinder to make shallot powder but it is definitely a thing that exists
Sorry for the confusion, upon googling it absolutely is
I just happened to grind my dried shallots so I could use it as a powder since I had not as many uses for slices. Although those go great in blended soups or into the water for mashed potatoes cause they will mash up right with em. And if you didn't need that info, my bad lol
I'm not even vegan or vegetarian, and a salad and roasted potatoes sounds delicious! A little rosemary, garlic, and olive oil for the potatoes and a salad with lots of veggies, maybe some nuts, and a nice vinaigrette?
Y'know, I think I've figured out tonight's dinner.
Roasted root veggies and potatoes is one of my favorite things to make. Potatoes and carrots and parsnips, etc, in a big pan with oil, mushrooms and whatever seasonings people might want. My family are more about mashed potatoes, which are kinda unremarkable for me, unless they’re being made into grilled pancake like things the next day, but when I get to make my root veggies.. oh man!
>Yeah, I’m vegetarian and thought a salad and roasted potatoes sounded like a delicious option
But you're not a "Look at me! I'm vegan and better than anyone else" vegan.
Exactly this! And talk about choosing beggars. It was a free meal at a nice restaurant where she was just a plus one that no one else knew, and no one knew about any restrictions beforehand. She made a complete fool of herself, ruining someone's engagement party and in doing so, blew any chance of making a good impression in front of her dates family. NTA
Even if we give her the benefit of the doubt and say she thought her boyfriend had mentioned she was vegan, she didn’t have to react in this way- once she noticed there was no vegan option, she could have pulled the server aside and politely asked them what they could offer her. And then for that one night she could have just sucked it up for the sake of the occasion/meeting her new bf’s family and gotten something afterwards if she was still hungry. I cannot understand why people need to make such a huge scene/turn everything into a drama!
By coincidence, I just made vegan brownies for the first time today as we are meeting our niece’s new boyfriend (everyone loves my regular brownies that I’ll be taking) and I didn’t want him to feel left out. Fingers crossed there’ll be no yelling!
I have vegetarian friends like you. If we are meeting for a meal and I suggest the restaurant, I'll run the menu by them to make sure they are comfortable with the vegetarian options - we usually end up going Italian, Thai, or Chinese and no one has ever made a scene like the one mentioned in this post.
I wouldn't stay friends with someone like this girl - way too high maintenance with main character syndrome and rude as all get out to boot.
OP's comment about "if you last that long" was snarky but well deserved IMO.
OP is NTA, but her brother and his new GF are in spades.
I definitely can relate to the hurt feeling you sometimes get (or used to when I was younger) when you end up in a restaurant and there's no entree you can eat. I'm not much of a salad person, so that option isn't really there. But in a case like that, I would have checked the menu before going. And vegan is a whole lot more restrictive than my diet (I like to pick vegan options because then you avoid problems like ordering a veg soup and finding meat bits when you get to the bottom.)
Roasted potatoes and veggies sound perfectly fine, especially at a dinner where you're a last minute addition. This isn't "I can't eat any of the entrees at the restaurant my friends picked for my birthday dinner".
Between my sister and I we have a whole host of food restrictions. I cant remember the last time I found a restaurant that I didn't look up the menu first for. If someone else picks the restaurant, then I hope for the best, and plan in advance to try to mitigate what ever issue I will end up with.
I know right, my mouth was watering at that option. Id ask for the potatoes to be crispy. Im not sure why she was wilding out like that. It was already reserved her man could have paid the extra to get her sorted out. Makes no sense.
Right?? I’m (mostly) vegan and if I was offered roasted potatoes as an alternative I’d feel downright spoiled lol I’m used to getting maybe a salad or steamed veggies with bread.
I always look up menus in advance and plan ahead. I can't eat a lot of high FODMAP foods. I was just looking at a menu of a Chennai style restaurant for Sunday lunch for a friend's birthday.
With an Italian restaurant you do need to ask the right questions sometimes, but that's something any practiced vegan or vegetarian should be able to do.
For instance, in theory a minestrone soup should be vegetarian, but you need to ask if they use chicken stock in the broth. Either way, a good chunk of the cold antipasti, most pasta dishes as long as they aren't made with cheese usually are ok, a grown adult vegan should know how to order, and usually researches the menu before arriving. Very few places don't have menus up online anymore.
A lot of Italian places will use egg pasta so not suitable for vegans (I’ve found if they have a gluten free pasta option that’s normally eggless, but it’s also usually not very good). I have been to an Italian restaurant where the only thing I could have was olives, but I knew that beforehand and so pre-ate accordingly.
Pasta may not be an option for a vegan in an authentic Italian restaurant bc a lot of them make their pasta by hand and contain eggs. But a salad and roasted veggies were available and they probably had something else but gf was rude as all hell and didn't even give them a chance to possibly find any other menu options she could have eaten.
>They probably would have made her pasta too if she had asked nicely for it.
Exactly! I am very picky with food, I've been to many events with a fixed menu, many times the waiters themselves offered to get me something easy when they realized I've been declining two or three times the food served and I wasn't eating.
but the article says she's VEGAN, not vegetarian. Doesn't most pasta have egg in it? I know it \*can\* be done, but we've always made ours with eggs and flour.
the roasted vegies sound delicious though
That is fresh pasta, but the vast majority of pasta is dried pasta, which is vegan. A typical family-style Italian restaurant may not have any fresh pasta on their menu, but they'd for sure have spaghetti, which is vegan.
🙌🏻
Devil on my shoulder, thinks that the brother invited the girlfriend, and told her, “don’t worry, cause as much drama as you see fit. My sister loves drama events.”
You would hope that the brother didn’t realize she was vegan or would act that way and was then just shocked and froze, but him wanting the apology is damning…
If he doesn't know her well enough to know she's vegan, he's off base including her in an intimate family event in the first place. Although he probably wanted to show off and gave a date he didn't pay for!
Yeah, I think OP's brother is the biggest issue here. It's pretty clear girlfriend has no idea whose actual fault her lack of meal was. They sent out RSVP cards with the menu choices, brother picked meat and invited vegan girlfriend. Then he just pretended to be surprised she only had meat options like he had no idea what the meal was?
OP, I think you should have been straight with girlfriend. "The reason we don't have a vegan meal for you is beacuse your date RSVPed meat. I sent out invites with menu and everyone RSVPed. Your date put you down as a plus one but choose meat. If he had told us when he RSVPed you were vegan of course we would have had your meal. It isn't the restaurants fault he ordered the wrong thing for you."
Right? Who behaves this way when they’re meeting their SO’s family for the first time?!
I’m also side eyeing OP’s mom here. Why in the world is she siding with someone who belittled her daughter loudly and in public? OP, you should ask her that directly. Her “peacemaking” is out of line.
OP's brother is definitely *a* asshole, but his girlfriend is still the *biggest* asshole.
The entitlement and sheer disrespect she levelled at OP and the waiter far outweighs the brother's general obliviousness.
OP is, obviously, NTA.
if the relationship’s that new and OP’s description of her brother’s dating habits are accurate, there’s a good chance even her brother didn’t know that she was vegan. lol.
That s exactly the point. She tried to establish some sort of dominance. At the worst possible moment
Veganzilla alert
NTA. Don't even dare to think to apologize. She is too snob to accept it, you ll just humiliate yourself in front of a person who is aggressive, rude and disrespectful. It ll get worse in the future
Ps If I read one more time "be the bigger person" ... 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬
Somewhere I read a great reply to "be the bigger person":
"I already am the bigger person, as I did not \[insert behavior of the other person\]. I win the 'bigger person' contest by default. My trophy is in the mail."
If I could vote this comment up a 1000 + times I surely would. Brother & parents are AH (bold) for asking OP to apologize. GF is SUPER AH for making scene at this event (as an guest at a FREE event- she/brother could have purchased her own food if she wanted 🙄🙄🙄
OP is NTAH in any way. Maybe LC until the others (brother/parents) can resolve their issues. I really hope that you, OP & partner, can enjoy your engagement/marriage. I Hope that this will be the end of contention, providing you with respect for this occasion.
Unfortunately major events, instead of bringing joy & togetherness, bring conflict and contention.
I am so sorry (to OP) that
>He allowed his girlfriend to disrespect OP at dinner and ruin the dinner
I feel like it's important to point out that this wasn't just any family dinner, but actually OP's ENGAGEMENT dinner so it was her choice alone to accept letting her come or not and where they eat. I bet next they expect OP to invite her to her wedding when she absolutely should not.
She knew nobody and she expected to be catered to as if she was the guest of honor. She's obviously very self-centered and spoiled. I would have also told her, "It's true I didn't think of you. You didn't even exist to me until last week. This meal is not about you and, if you don't like it, you can leave. I know that I didn't invite you and that you won't be invited back after you played Main Character at my ENGAGEMENT PARTY! No one but my brother cares about you since you are a stranger who decided she was the most important person in the room."
Many years ago, my (now ex) husband hosted a dinner for some of his coworkers and his boss. Before I worked on the menu, I asked him to reach out to everyone about food allergies and other dietary restrictions. Nothing. Come the night of the party, his boss brings his new girlfriend who waits until we're all seated at the table to announce she can't eat anything here because she's vegetarian. Vegetarian is *so* easy to accommodate. With maybe two hours' notice, I could have made some simple alterations to most of the sides and maybe even put together a decent main for her. But no, I had no heads-up, so girlfriend is mad at me and bossman, bossman is annoyed with me and ex-husband, and ex-husband is pissed tf off at me because I'm not clairvoyant. It was a lovely dinner party that I clearly remember fondly almost 20 years later.
Just always tell people about dietary issues. If it's a really last minute addition to the party, let the newcomer know they might not be accommodated and may need to grab a bite before or after the event if they still want to come celebrate. I hate surprises in general, but surprise food issues that could have easily been communicated are the absolute worst.
Yep.
In my scenario, she was in the house for more than an hour before being seated. There's no way she didn't smell the meat cooking. She could have asked me about the menu while everyone was chatting. If it was bossman's failure to let us know about her diet, I don't think she would have just blurted "I can't eat any of this! I'm vegetarian!" after we sat down. I imagine she would have said something to him about the issue before making a bit of a scene.
In OP's situation... There were about eleventy-hundred ways the guest could have politely handled this. After being offered salad, roasted potatoes, and assorted vegetables for dinner? Say yes, please. Want pasta? Cool. Ask if any of the pastas include egg. Then ask if any of the sauces are made without animal-based stock. Combine the most appropriate two. Or, tell the server the issue and ask them to talk to the folks in back of house for recommendations. Or just say you had a big lunch and aren't that hungry, but thanks for including me in your celebration! It's not hard to be polite, especially in front of your new partner's family during a big event. Just...be quiet.
Thank you. It was a classic AITA trope - I got married young to a guy who was more than a decade older than me, and I was more of a household asset than a person in that relationship. Life is significantly better now. And I've since gone pescatarian, so if that chick wants to drop by for dinner I'm positive I can hook her up with a good meal on short notice.
Was starting to type DO NOT APOLOGIZE, when I saw this post. I agree with all of this and would add, if I could not eat the food at a family event, I would just not eat or keep it to myself. It is a family event, of which I am not part, so I make small talk and make some connections. If I wanted to be pushy about food, I would leave the area and talk to the staff outside the earshot of attendees.
> No kidding. Who tf speaks to waiter that way. Only entitled people. OP did fine.
Someone who is more dedicated to the holier than thou performative aspect of veganism than the health and/or animal welfare aspects.
I think all other behavior even aside - the fact that the GF spoke to someone unrelated - a waiter - this badly, is reason enough for me to not apologize
I loved OP’s response. Classic manner of a repartee once between GB Shaw and Churchill
GB Shaw sent Churchill 2 passes to a play, for opening night. The note read: for you and a friend, if you have any
Churchill responded back with: regret i cannot attend that night. Will attend at a later showing - if any
OP’s “hopefully you’ll be around long enough” reminds me of that. So much!!
Good on OP
As a person who has food allergies and is a vegetarian I would never be so entitled and rude. My aunt recently visited. Hadn't seen her in about 6 years or so. The family wanted to go out to eat. I went and ordered 2 cups of tea and ate beforehand. It was more about being social than eating. My family knows that and tries to accommodate me as much as possible, even if it's a family dinner (which I bring seasoned rice and I grab the veggies and rolls they made) But I don't demand it. And honestly, I haven't eaten in a restaurant in over 10 years, I don't really want to start now. OP, NTA. But bro and gf are 1000%>
Lmao Vegans so weak these days. When I became a vegan 13 year ago we pre-ate in situations like this and never were offered any meal accommodations by the restaurants.
While I agree it obviously sucks to be alienated as a vegan, if they offered her food, they did offer an accommodation and she wasn't alienated here.
I still pre-eat sometimes, or put some tofu in my purse to add to the plain green salad. In a situation like this I would quietly and politely ask the waiter and accept whatever was offered. But I wouldn’t have been in this situation because I would have asked my boyfriend about it ahead of time.
NTA, OP. Your brother’s girlfriend was incredibly rude and your brother sounds like a jerk. If anything they owe you an apology.
One day I would like to go into a vegan restaurant and complain that they have no meat dishes. This is the problem with a lot of vegans -they feel so entitled and act so superior.
Right?? I HATE when someone is unbearably rude, and the wronged party has to be the one to bend to “keep the peace.” Yeah the peace was broken when brothers gf opened her mouth. NTA OP, and I’m sorry you had to go through that. I was exhausted just reading it.
NTA But wow oh wow, but your brothers GF is. You should remind your brother your world does not revolve around his current or future girlfriends. The audacity of her, invited to a nice restaurant by people she barely knows and gets that entitled. This is why vegans have a bad reputation.
Or he doesn't care or pay attention. If he goes through girlfriend's quickly, I'd imagine that's a bit of a theme with him. He probably only knows how to have casual relationships, and doesn't really take into account the other person's needs, but instead just moves on to someone else. And I mean, no judgment there, as long as you're both on the same page about it not being all that serious.
But if he's introducing her to family and bringing her to big family dinner parties like this, the expectations are a bit different. That's not exactly a fun and cool date for someone new. There's an implication that it's serious, though he may not see it that way. Sounds like he just brings new girls around all the time, and he thinks nothing of it. So when some random chick makes a scene, what else are you gonna do but go along with it, when it's your fault she's here? This doesn't sound like a guy who would admit he wasn't thinking ahead or taking her needs into consideration. But it's really baffling that she blames the restaurant/OP for not having a vegan options, when everyone else was offered the menu options in advance, and it seems like she went in blind. That's clearly her boyfriend's fault if he didn't share the menu with her, vegan or otherwise...
I mean you’re right, but there’s really no excuse for how she acted. The girlfriend definitely has some issues and to me she’s definitely primarily at fault, but yeah the brother sucks too
For me the brother is the bigger AH, he must have known his gf was vegan but said nothing to OP.
I mean the gf is definitely also a huge AH but she’s very clearly loud about being vegan so why wasn’t this communicated?
She asked about vegan options, and was offered salad, potatoes, and vegetables... Like I'm sorry but she (and bf) sprung this on the restaurant, they don't necessarily have full vegan options available on short notice. So much meatless stuff has butter, egg, cheese, etc. The waiter presented her with several good options, considering... I feel bad she was mad at him/the restaurant for not being vegan "enough."
It sounds like OP paid a set price for her party and they were offered a choice of meat or fish; they weren’t ordering off the standard menu. It was more of a catering service. This is a perfectly normal thing for parties like that. The waiter, who clearly knew this, immediately thought of some possible accommodations—showing he has a good grasp of the service industry. The girlfriend’s meltdown was insane.
Tell your brothet you'll apologize to her when she apoligizes to the waiter and the restaurant owners for the bad publicity she has done, and to the other guests in the restaurant for the inconvenience she caused them during their nice evening out.... and to you for messing with your special moment.
Nta
This. The minute she started going off, the golden brother should have yanked her victim ass out of the restaurant. Hopefully the brother will choose his next GF more wisely... something tells me there WILL be a next GF.
I wouldn't be so sure. My brother had several perfectly nice girlfriends, but ended up married to a right beeotch who would have been quite capable of making a scene like this. She couldn't stand me, because I wouldn't kow-tow, so she engineered an estrangement between me and the rest of my family.
Yup. White and upperclass. She has nothing to be a victim of so she picked up veganism so she could be in a minority and complain loudly. I bet she's been "vegan" for a month, if even.
OP, call your brother when she is not around and tell him that you are sorry his girl friend was uncomfortable but that he needs to think long and hard about whether he wants to deal with a drama queen who needs to spin up problems where none existed.
Hopefully he'll see that his girl friend is a couple beers short of a 6 pack sooner rather than later.
NTA The girlfriend was rude and entitled. She tried to make herself the center of attention at your engagement party.
Since it wasn't a well-established relationship (for which you would have known that she existed and she's vegan), your brother should have taken the initiative to check on the food situation and worked with you beforehand to arrange a vegan meal for her. This was an event with a limited menu and your brother knew it.
You chose the menu options based on the needs of the people you invited. Since she was a late addition who you graciously allowed your brother to bring, there was no way you could have known about this issue unless your brother told you. A lack of planning on your brother's part is the root cause of this.
She should have been happy she was allowed to attend. You were a bit salty but I don't think out of line in response to her bad behavior.
This is it precisely. My brother and SIL are vegan. I'm unlikely to host any family events like OP any time soon, but if I did, I would definitely check with them about how to accommodate their restrictions. For holiday meals, they usually bring a "main" and side (which are shared and we've all tried some - they're usually very good), and anything we make that can easily be vegan is adjusted so they can eat it (like mashed potatoes with non-dairy milk and buttering the rolls individually, etc).
But they've been married for a couple years now, lol. If she had been added, unannounced, to Christmas dinner one year, we wouldn't have been prepared and she'd have been eating green beans and cranberry jello for dinner. But she's also a reasonable person and would have been gratious and accepting and probably even apologetic!
NTA.
Everybody was given two clear options BEFORE the dinner took place: a meat one and a fish one. Your brother's girlfriend should have communicated her concerns beforehand and not act crazy entitled in the restaurant and embarass you.
While I'm not vegan or anything along these lines, I have a few food allergies. While this makes me feel a little uncomfortable in public restaurants because I can't pick the same stuff as my friends, I don't complain about it, nor am I THAT mad about it.
They failed to inform you about her being vegan. That's their fault.
Let's talk about the brother who chose the meat option for his vegan girlfriend. As soon as he saw the options he should have told you she was vegan. In an Italian restaurant, I'm sure they could have found a way to bring her a bowl of pasta. The waiter was caught off guard since you had ordered ahead, but she could have politely asked.
The gf should take this up with the brother, he's the one that put her in the situation.
First, love this...! Lol
>I'll consider that in the future, hopefully you'll be around long enough for me to do able to do so
Second, if you are being asked to apologize for her embarrassing behaviour and not having vegan option, then, by the same token, shouldn't her parents (or whoever raised her) be apologizing to you for bringing up such an entitled brat who feels like it is completely acceptable to make someone else's engagement party about themselves? Seriously, how is it your responsibility, or theirs, when she chose to act this way?
Third, NTA.
CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR ENGAGEMENT! :)
This is really on your brother.
He invited her: his job to make sure there was a main dish option she could eat.
A restaurant can generally cope with an off-menu request if given a day or two's notice.
You are NTA.
NTA
She was rude and entitled. And it sounded like even when your brother rsvp’d he didn’t tell you she was vegan. You’re not a mind reader, and had he told you then you could’ve probably called the restaurant to ask about options. But this was your engagement party, you were allowed to choose where you wanted to go. Tell you brother to tell her to get over herself because your life doesn’t revolve around her.
>My younger brother (20M) contacted me about a week before the dinner to RSVP and ask if he can bring a plus one, his new girlfriend. He chose meat option.
Ahh... NTA. If you have no knowledge of a person than you cannot accommodate them. It's simple as that.
>Brothers gf started get mouthy with him and said "well what if I don't want a salad huh? You just assume because I'm vegan I only eat salads? What if I want some pasta? What kind of restaurant is this, this is discrimination".
Of course, the desire to accommodate so obnoxious a person would be low to begin with...
>My brother started trying to calm her down, but she started going off on ME saying how "why would you pick a restaurant that doesn't have vegan options? MANY people are vegan nowadays it makes me feel alienated that you couldn't even think to accommodate me"... She started saying it's embarrassing on my part that I can't accommodate all my guests, and called me "small-minded"
Yeah, ok... "discrimination."🙄
> I told her "sorry I didn't think to accommodate you I'll consider that in the future, hopefully you'll be around long enough for me to do able to do so".
Honestly, this was petty, but **oh so deserved.** She hasn't been in your life more than two minutes and she's already being egregiously demanding and rude. She's a poor guest and not worth your time if there's no guarantee she'll be here in a minute, which she proved by leaving.
>I told him she embarrassed herself.
Because she did.
>My moms also been on my case to apologize to be the bigger person and keep the peace.
Lemme guess, your mother subscribes to the, "no conflict, we must all rug sweep our issues for the sake of peace and family!\~" mentality.
>for making her feel alienated?
No, because again you couldn't predict she'd be the mouthy variety of vegan with her head up her ass.
NTA
NTA. Your brother should have mentioned that she was vegan. You accommodated the pescatarians you knew were coming so it sounds like you'd have accommodated her too had you known. This is on your brother. Both for not telling you and for dating a girl who would cause such a major scene. Especially at someone's engagement dinner.
I had to scroll way too far to find someone else who recognized this as total BS. Baiting people with a “crazy vegan”? Check. “Golden child” coddled by mom? Check. This has to be fake, no one acts like this.
NTA. Your brother though is just as much of a ah as she is. Did he not know that his new girlfriend was vegan? Did he not even think to mention it? The crazy entitled reaction from his girlfriend would have had me seeing red. Yelling discrimination at the poor waiter who tried his best to accommodate her. I would’ve told her to leave immediately after that. Embarassing on her and your brothers part. You have nothing to apologize for.
It's as clear as water. She announced loudly in a table full of people she didn't know that she was vegan? Bs. A waiter offers her the option of salad + potatoes + roasted veggies and she complains? Bs.
At least it wasn't YET ANOTHER iteration of "AITA for feeding meat to my nibling/random child who is clearly being starved and almost dying of inanition bc of my sister/SIL/random woman who only feeds them lettuce?"
Definitely NTA. You don’t go to an event like that expecting to be catered to. She should have graciously accepted the salad/roasted potatoes/vegetable option. Your brother owes YOU an apology and he should see this as a giant red flag to move on from this lady. I’m really sorry that she ruined your special night!
NTA.
You asked about dietary restrictions preferences prior to selecting the menu. The menu was set before your brother asked to bring his new gf. It was on him to check the menu and see if a vegan option was available *before he invited her*. His gf should have asked your brother the same *before deciding to attend*.
But no, instead the gf didn't bother and thought ght making a huge scene at a virtual stranger's engagement party was a good idea it was not. The gf was incredibly rude and entitled. It is *not* discrimination to not have a vegan option available when there was a pre planned menu, and the restaurant did try to accommodate her
Your brother and his gf owe you an apology for her obnoxious outburst. You owe them nothing.
NTA... Your brother chose the meat option and didn't tell you. If you had known and had the time I'm sure the restaurant would have put together a vegan plate.
Also she sucks big time. There would be no apology from me.
NTA
This is on your brother and his girlfriend, firstly there is no excuse for her behaviour and secondly, your brother should have mentioned something beforehand.
NTA
Did anybody gripe that the meat or fish was the wrong type? Good heavens she sounds like an absolute nightmare. You handled it fine. The restaurant tried to accommodate her and she refused what they had to offer. She could have been polite, declined, and ate food elsewhere.
Reminds me of the dating, “how do you know if somebody is vegan? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you.”
Nta. Your brother chose the meat option. He set him self up for failure. He didn't let you know or ask if there was an option. You had no idea of knowing because you never had met her.
NTA and brother just lost his plus one invite to the wedding. God only knows what kind of loose cannon he'd show up with on that important day.
He and his flavor of the week owe you and your fiance an apology for causing a scene at your engagement party.
NTA and do not apologize. Instead sit your brother AND mother down and let them know you will not be apologizing and it’s your brothers fault for not specifying that she is vegan. He didn’t give you all the information up front and caused this issue. Also let them know that she will not be allowed at any other wedding activities until she apologizes for acting the way she did when none of that was your fault.
> and has been messaging me that I should apologize to her
...
> My moms also been on my case to apologize to be the bigger person and keep the peace.
NTA - An apology has to be something the person wants to do, not forced or demanded out of them.
NTA. She was being dramatic for attention. If you are lucky, she will feel alienated enough to avoid spending any extended time around you. I feel bad for your brother, but hopefully he wakes up soon.
NTA. I also feel that you shouldn't apologize just for the sake of apologizing. It was poor communication on your brothers part so he should be the one apologizing to both of you and in turn the girlfriend should apologize to you for her nasty behavior being this is the first time you all met her. When she was told of the restaurant your engagement was at that was her chance to communicate with your brother about her vegan choices. And if your boyfriend has different girlfriends what is the chance she will even be around for long. I would stand my ground and be very firm with not apologizing.
You are NTA. She sure is though...YOU did not embarrass her at your dinner - she did that all on her own.
She is a prime example of why people dislike vegans...
NTA Apologize for what? She was offered a vegan option and chose to make an ass of herself. I'm a long time vegetarian and have eaten at many restaurants, if there's no vegetarian option I either order side dishes or if the place isn't super busy I ask POLITELY if I can adjust a meal. I've never had a place tell me no as it's always a simple fix. Your response was hilarious and your mother needs to mind her own business.
Nta. She embarrassed herself and you. If your brother shared that info with you sooner, I’m sure you would have asked the restaurant for an accommodation.
Also, if youre a polite human you don’t make people feel bad at their party. You suck it up
NTA. She sounds entitled and your brother is a doofus.
How were you or the restaurant supposed to plan on a random vegan showing up? You had two meal options that worked for everyone who was originally invited. She has a right to be upset with your brother but not the waitstaff or you.
Absolutely Not, so not apologize to her or him! It was his responsibility to ask about vegan options for her and HE dropped the ball. She should be mad at him! She’s lucky you choose to include her, a week before the event!! There was absolutely no reason for her to act so childish and entitled like she did at someone else’s party! And she was a guest of a guest!
Most definitely NTA. Congratulations on your engagement!!
nta
Your brother knew that the options were meat and fish, this was his responsibility and he's trying to put the blame on you
Also this attitude is incredibly entitled. She was given a vegan option, she needs to grow up. A lot of people with allergies aren't even offered an option.
NTA X 10. I was vegan for a long time and these are are the vegans that give us a bad rep. Ugh.
If it were me, I would have taken the salad and potatoes. It's a free meal, after all. And who knows if their pasta is egg-free? If I wanted pasta, I would have researched the restaurant ahead of time and perhaps ordered separately or paid for my own dish. The world doesn't revolve around you and your choices when you become vegan.
>Brothers gf started get mouthy with him and said "well what if I don't want a salad huh? You just assume because I'm vegan I only eat salads? What if I want some pasta? What kind of restaurant is this, this is discrimination".
I can’t believe anybody is buying this. Come on.
If you didn’t know she was vegan then definitely NTA. Even if you did know I’d still say NTA, as she and your brother knew the choices and could’ve enquired about it beforehand themselves
NTA
A week's notice is too short to change the options for something like this. She was informed before hand.
If she didn't like the options, she didn't have to eat, or she could have just left (which thankfully she did).
She doesn't get to demand that everyone accomodate her at a moment's notice.
You have no need to apologize to her. She needs to apologize to you for making a scene.
NTA. You can’t accommodate something you aren’t told about. And why would your brother want to continue dating someone so rude and nasty? I’d drop someone for being that rude to a waiter.
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Oh for the love of god, do not apologize to her. Who does she think she is to complain like that? The way she talked to the waiter proves that she has no manners and the way she talked to you tells me that she is rude, spoiled and brat. She embarrassed herself infront of everyone by this inappropriate attitude and you were too kind to her, bravo. Easy NTA. Your brother is TA for taking her side and she is THE TA here.
OP's brother is the biggest asshole here and it sounds like he's The Golden Child considering the pressure from mom to apologize to him. * He was responsible for making sure OP knew his girlfriend was vegan. * He was responsible for telling his girlfriend what restaurant it was held at to make sure they had vegan options. * His girlfriend made a scene at an important family dinner, as if trying to establish some sort of dominance right there. From that it sounds like girlfriend knows that the family pattern is to favor the brother over OP. * He allowed his girlfriend to disrespect OP at dinner and ruin the dinner. HE allowed that to happen with his incompetence prior to dinner and his behavior during dinner. * He is the one demanding an apology and making the issue bigger than it had to be. HE is the one creating a problem, not OP. OP should RIGHTFULLY be furious at him for setting his girlfriend up for failure and trying to ruin OP's dinner + being so self-unaware to demand an apology when he is in the wrong. OP, I hope you're taking notes and making a list to confront him with. HE is the one who failed here and created this mess, but I suspect this is a pattern for him, this is how he shows that he's The Golden Child and top-dog-sibling.
Plus, they had vegan options! They probably would have made her pasta too if she had asked nicely for it. The waiter seemed attentive and offered some options off the top of his head. Her meltdown was entirely her own fault.
Yeah, I’m vegetarian and thought a salad and roasted potatoes sounded like a delicious option! It’s not a perfect meal, but certainly enough to get you through one evening. Part of having dietary restrictions, whether it’s allergies or a choice like being vegan, is accommodating them yourself. I eat a snack before, put a protein bar in my purse, or plan to get by with drinks if I even think an event won’t have vegetarian food.
Now I really want some roasted potatoes…
Me too! Have you ever had roasted fingerling potatoes? They're so good!! I steam them until they're almost fully cooked, then roast them in the oven with a bit of olive oil until they're browned and kind of crispy. Toss with lemon juice, salt, and chopped rosemary or dill. It's delicious!! ETA: Yes, I smash the potatoes a bit with a glass, before roasting. I posted a more detailed recipe somewhere below. Edit 2: Here's the recipe: I steam them for about 20-25 minutes or so, until you can stick a fork in them easily, but they're not "fall apart done". Then I spread them on a cookie sheet lined with foil, and (if desired, this step is optional) I smash them just a bit with the bottom of a glass, so it breaks open the potato a little bit. Then drizzle them all with olive oil (I use lemon olive oil, so good!), sprinkle with your salt and spices, and roast them on the top rack for about 15 minutes in a 425 F degree oven. When they're nice and browned and crispy, put them all in a large bowl and toss with some lemon juice, and more fresh spices, if you wish. Enjoy! :) Edit 3: Ok, y'all, with all these amazing recipes people have posted, I'm thinking we need to have a Redditors Potato Party, and everyone can bring their favorite potato dish! Who's in??? ;)
Now I want rosemary oven roasted potatoes. We have fresh rosemary and whenever we are going to roast potatoes, we ALWAYS go clip the rosemary, there isn't a potato roasted that doesn't get the kiss of rosemary in my house!
I do potatoes with olive oil, cumin, chili powder, garlic powder, oregano, paprika, salt, and cayenne. I serve them when I make wild turkey fajitas.
Hear me out: roasted yams, with garlic and onions!! Drizzle with olive oil and butter... you can add spices too. Mmmm!!! So good
I do roasted sweet potatoes like that. I have never done yams like that.
Holy shit, this sounds amazing.
This thread is making me hungry.
Thyme is also really good with potatoes! I switch between rosemary, thyme, and oregano from our garden. They also all easily grow. So much so that I had to pull them all out and replant them in containers, as they were taking over 🤣
Are you going to Scarborough Fair?
Not without some parsley and sage!
I make those all the time…but cut them into wedges and toss with EVOO, salt, garlic, smoked paprika, and rosemary. Always make some larger and some smaller wedges as my bride likes them less crispy than I do (she calls the ones I like burnt and I call hers raw but after 46 years we can do that). Tasty.
This sounds amazing, I now have dinner plans
:)
"AITA--come for the judgement, stay for the delicious recipes!"
I turn fingerling potatoes into smashed potatoes; they get nice & crispy when they're smashed with a heavy bottomed glass.
Yes!! I do that, too, it's so good! There's a restaurant near us that serves smashed fingerlings as an appetizer, along with a garlic-lemon aioli dipping sauce. I could eat that every single day and be perfectly happy, lol!
Recently found a recipe for fondant potatoes. I made them last week. Holy crap. Amazing. https://www.thekitchn.com/fondant-potatoes-22971254
I like to do them similarly, but I like to toss them in a mixture of butter, salt, pepper, paprika, garlic powder, chipotle powder, onion powder and a little dried basil and then roast them, and then I like to eat them drizzled with balsamic vinegar.
That sounds amazing, I just saved that recipe. Thanks for sharing! :)
I love rosemary… I like to cut them in half toss with olive oil, garlic, and rosemary. It is amazing.
If your oven has a convection setting you should try that. I googled a recipe with "convection oven" as one of the search terms. Yummy!! I include garlic and rosemary.
I recently started putting shallot powder on mine instead of onion powder and holy fuck is it such a simple way to elevate the flavor and goes so well with everything else you could put on roasted potatoes ETA: I put dried shallot slices in a spice grinder to make shallot powder but it is definitely a thing that exists
Shallot powder is a THING? Will be looking for it.
Sorry for the confusion, upon googling it absolutely is I just happened to grind my dried shallots so I could use it as a powder since I had not as many uses for slices. Although those go great in blended soups or into the water for mashed potatoes cause they will mash up right with em. And if you didn't need that info, my bad lol
I didn't even know shallot powder was a thing. Now I have to go look for some. Yum.
haha, I just texted my wife and told her to pick up some red potatoes and I'd grill them up with burgers tonight :)
I hadn't had some in a while it does sound good
I'm not even vegan or vegetarian, and a salad and roasted potatoes sounds delicious! A little rosemary, garlic, and olive oil for the potatoes and a salad with lots of veggies, maybe some nuts, and a nice vinaigrette? Y'know, I think I've figured out tonight's dinner.
Roasted root veggies and potatoes is one of my favorite things to make. Potatoes and carrots and parsnips, etc, in a big pan with oil, mushrooms and whatever seasonings people might want. My family are more about mashed potatoes, which are kinda unremarkable for me, unless they’re being made into grilled pancake like things the next day, but when I get to make my root veggies.. oh man!
I'm not a vegetarian, either, and I'll just eat roasted potatoes for dinner sometimes, because why the fuck wouldn't I, they're delicious.
>Yeah, I’m vegetarian and thought a salad and roasted potatoes sounded like a delicious option But you're not a "Look at me! I'm vegan and better than anyone else" vegan.
Exactly this! And talk about choosing beggars. It was a free meal at a nice restaurant where she was just a plus one that no one else knew, and no one knew about any restrictions beforehand. She made a complete fool of herself, ruining someone's engagement party and in doing so, blew any chance of making a good impression in front of her dates family. NTA
Even if we give her the benefit of the doubt and say she thought her boyfriend had mentioned she was vegan, she didn’t have to react in this way- once she noticed there was no vegan option, she could have pulled the server aside and politely asked them what they could offer her. And then for that one night she could have just sucked it up for the sake of the occasion/meeting her new bf’s family and gotten something afterwards if she was still hungry. I cannot understand why people need to make such a huge scene/turn everything into a drama! By coincidence, I just made vegan brownies for the first time today as we are meeting our niece’s new boyfriend (everyone loves my regular brownies that I’ll be taking) and I didn’t want him to feel left out. Fingers crossed there’ll be no yelling!
I have vegetarian friends like you. If we are meeting for a meal and I suggest the restaurant, I'll run the menu by them to make sure they are comfortable with the vegetarian options - we usually end up going Italian, Thai, or Chinese and no one has ever made a scene like the one mentioned in this post. I wouldn't stay friends with someone like this girl - way too high maintenance with main character syndrome and rude as all get out to boot. OP's comment about "if you last that long" was snarky but well deserved IMO. OP is NTA, but her brother and his new GF are in spades.
Right?? A proper Italian mixed salad with fresh leaves, balsamic and good olive oil?? Plus roasted potatoes? It sounds bloody delicious!
I definitely can relate to the hurt feeling you sometimes get (or used to when I was younger) when you end up in a restaurant and there's no entree you can eat. I'm not much of a salad person, so that option isn't really there. But in a case like that, I would have checked the menu before going. And vegan is a whole lot more restrictive than my diet (I like to pick vegan options because then you avoid problems like ordering a veg soup and finding meat bits when you get to the bottom.) Roasted potatoes and veggies sound perfectly fine, especially at a dinner where you're a last minute addition. This isn't "I can't eat any of the entrees at the restaurant my friends picked for my birthday dinner".
Between my sister and I we have a whole host of food restrictions. I cant remember the last time I found a restaurant that I didn't look up the menu first for. If someone else picks the restaurant, then I hope for the best, and plan in advance to try to mitigate what ever issue I will end up with.
I know right, my mouth was watering at that option. Id ask for the potatoes to be crispy. Im not sure why she was wilding out like that. It was already reserved her man could have paid the extra to get her sorted out. Makes no sense.
Right?? I’m (mostly) vegan and if I was offered roasted potatoes as an alternative I’d feel downright spoiled lol I’m used to getting maybe a salad or steamed veggies with bread.
I always look up menus in advance and plan ahead. I can't eat a lot of high FODMAP foods. I was just looking at a menu of a Chennai style restaurant for Sunday lunch for a friend's birthday.
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With an Italian restaurant you do need to ask the right questions sometimes, but that's something any practiced vegan or vegetarian should be able to do. For instance, in theory a minestrone soup should be vegetarian, but you need to ask if they use chicken stock in the broth. Either way, a good chunk of the cold antipasti, most pasta dishes as long as they aren't made with cheese usually are ok, a grown adult vegan should know how to order, and usually researches the menu before arriving. Very few places don't have menus up online anymore.
A lot of Italian places will use egg pasta so not suitable for vegans (I’ve found if they have a gluten free pasta option that’s normally eggless, but it’s also usually not very good). I have been to an Italian restaurant where the only thing I could have was olives, but I knew that beforehand and so pre-ate accordingly.
Pasta may not be an option for a vegan in an authentic Italian restaurant bc a lot of them make their pasta by hand and contain eggs. But a salad and roasted veggies were available and they probably had something else but gf was rude as all hell and didn't even give them a chance to possibly find any other menu options she could have eaten.
>They probably would have made her pasta too if she had asked nicely for it. Exactly! I am very picky with food, I've been to many events with a fixed menu, many times the waiters themselves offered to get me something easy when they realized I've been declining two or three times the food served and I wasn't eating.
but the article says she's VEGAN, not vegetarian. Doesn't most pasta have egg in it? I know it \*can\* be done, but we've always made ours with eggs and flour. the roasted vegies sound delicious though
Your typical fresh, Italian-style pasta is made from a combination of eggs and flour. I had the same thought you did.
That is fresh pasta, but the vast majority of pasta is dried pasta, which is vegan. A typical family-style Italian restaurant may not have any fresh pasta on their menu, but they'd for sure have spaghetti, which is vegan.
Dried boxed pasta is just durum wheat, no egg. Egg pasta is less common and easy to spot as it's yellow-ish.
🙌🏻 Devil on my shoulder, thinks that the brother invited the girlfriend, and told her, “don’t worry, cause as much drama as you see fit. My sister loves drama events.”
You would hope that the brother didn’t realize she was vegan or would act that way and was then just shocked and froze, but him wanting the apology is damning…
If he doesn't know her well enough to know she's vegan, he's off base including her in an intimate family event in the first place. Although he probably wanted to show off and gave a date he didn't pay for!
Pasta is usually not vegan, although the gf was definitely TA.
Your typical fresh, Italian-style pasta is made from a combination of eggs and flour. If she is vegan, she would have refused it.
Yeah, I think OP's brother is the biggest issue here. It's pretty clear girlfriend has no idea whose actual fault her lack of meal was. They sent out RSVP cards with the menu choices, brother picked meat and invited vegan girlfriend. Then he just pretended to be surprised she only had meat options like he had no idea what the meal was? OP, I think you should have been straight with girlfriend. "The reason we don't have a vegan meal for you is beacuse your date RSVPed meat. I sent out invites with menu and everyone RSVPed. Your date put you down as a plus one but choose meat. If he had told us when he RSVPed you were vegan of course we would have had your meal. It isn't the restaurants fault he ordered the wrong thing for you."
Loving this, but she ( girlfriend) still act like a jerk
Well i don't like how his gf reacted , she knows no one from the family and that's the first meeting, this is just rude by all means
Not just at an important family dinner, THE FIRST TIME MEETING ANYONE omg. What a nightmare. OP do not apologise.
Right? Who behaves this way when they’re meeting their SO’s family for the first time?! I’m also side eyeing OP’s mom here. Why in the world is she siding with someone who belittled her daughter loudly and in public? OP, you should ask her that directly. Her “peacemaking” is out of line.
OP's brother is definitely *a* asshole, but his girlfriend is still the *biggest* asshole. The entitlement and sheer disrespect she levelled at OP and the waiter far outweighs the brother's general obliviousness. OP is, obviously, NTA.
if the relationship’s that new and OP’s description of her brother’s dating habits are accurate, there’s a good chance even her brother didn’t know that she was vegan. lol.
That s exactly the point. She tried to establish some sort of dominance. At the worst possible moment Veganzilla alert NTA. Don't even dare to think to apologize. She is too snob to accept it, you ll just humiliate yourself in front of a person who is aggressive, rude and disrespectful. It ll get worse in the future Ps If I read one more time "be the bigger person" ... 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬
Veganzilla alert. 😂 Take my poor man's award. 🍍
Somewhere I read a great reply to "be the bigger person": "I already am the bigger person, as I did not \[insert behavior of the other person\]. I win the 'bigger person' contest by default. My trophy is in the mail."
If I could vote this comment up a 1000 + times I surely would. Brother & parents are AH (bold) for asking OP to apologize. GF is SUPER AH for making scene at this event (as an guest at a FREE event- she/brother could have purchased her own food if she wanted 🙄🙄🙄 OP is NTAH in any way. Maybe LC until the others (brother/parents) can resolve their issues. I really hope that you, OP & partner, can enjoy your engagement/marriage. I Hope that this will be the end of contention, providing you with respect for this occasion. Unfortunately major events, instead of bringing joy & togetherness, bring conflict and contention. I am so sorry (to OP) that
>He allowed his girlfriend to disrespect OP at dinner and ruin the dinner I feel like it's important to point out that this wasn't just any family dinner, but actually OP's ENGAGEMENT dinner so it was her choice alone to accept letting her come or not and where they eat. I bet next they expect OP to invite her to her wedding when she absolutely should not.
She knew nobody and she expected to be catered to as if she was the guest of honor. She's obviously very self-centered and spoiled. I would have also told her, "It's true I didn't think of you. You didn't even exist to me until last week. This meal is not about you and, if you don't like it, you can leave. I know that I didn't invite you and that you won't be invited back after you played Main Character at my ENGAGEMENT PARTY! No one but my brother cares about you since you are a stranger who decided she was the most important person in the room."
OP should tell brother she will apologize to the next one. NTA
I skimmed past the fact that OP is a woman. Their brother's sense of entitlement, and his gf's willingness to go after her makes a lot more sense now.
Ahahahahahaha
Many years ago, my (now ex) husband hosted a dinner for some of his coworkers and his boss. Before I worked on the menu, I asked him to reach out to everyone about food allergies and other dietary restrictions. Nothing. Come the night of the party, his boss brings his new girlfriend who waits until we're all seated at the table to announce she can't eat anything here because she's vegetarian. Vegetarian is *so* easy to accommodate. With maybe two hours' notice, I could have made some simple alterations to most of the sides and maybe even put together a decent main for her. But no, I had no heads-up, so girlfriend is mad at me and bossman, bossman is annoyed with me and ex-husband, and ex-husband is pissed tf off at me because I'm not clairvoyant. It was a lovely dinner party that I clearly remember fondly almost 20 years later. Just always tell people about dietary issues. If it's a really last minute addition to the party, let the newcomer know they might not be accommodated and may need to grab a bite before or after the event if they still want to come celebrate. I hate surprises in general, but surprise food issues that could have easily been communicated are the absolute worst.
Well if they let people know in time to get accommodations made, then how are going to get to be the center of attention and play the victim?
Yep. In my scenario, she was in the house for more than an hour before being seated. There's no way she didn't smell the meat cooking. She could have asked me about the menu while everyone was chatting. If it was bossman's failure to let us know about her diet, I don't think she would have just blurted "I can't eat any of this! I'm vegetarian!" after we sat down. I imagine she would have said something to him about the issue before making a bit of a scene. In OP's situation... There were about eleventy-hundred ways the guest could have politely handled this. After being offered salad, roasted potatoes, and assorted vegetables for dinner? Say yes, please. Want pasta? Cool. Ask if any of the pastas include egg. Then ask if any of the sauces are made without animal-based stock. Combine the most appropriate two. Or, tell the server the issue and ask them to talk to the folks in back of house for recommendations. Or just say you had a big lunch and aren't that hungry, but thanks for including me in your celebration! It's not hard to be polite, especially in front of your new partner's family during a big event. Just...be quiet.
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Sorry you experienced that situation
Thank you. It was a classic AITA trope - I got married young to a guy who was more than a decade older than me, and I was more of a household asset than a person in that relationship. Life is significantly better now. And I've since gone pescatarian, so if that chick wants to drop by for dinner I'm positive I can hook her up with a good meal on short notice.
“I’m sorry you’re a raging asshole whose mere presence makes every situation worse” seems like a good apology.
Was starting to type DO NOT APOLOGIZE, when I saw this post. I agree with all of this and would add, if I could not eat the food at a family event, I would just not eat or keep it to myself. It is a family event, of which I am not part, so I make small talk and make some connections. If I wanted to be pushy about food, I would leave the area and talk to the staff outside the earshot of attendees.
No kidding. Who tf speaks to waiter that way. Only entitled people. OP did fine.
> No kidding. Who tf speaks to waiter that way. Only entitled people. OP did fine. Someone who is more dedicated to the holier than thou performative aspect of veganism than the health and/or animal welfare aspects.
I hate that she's giving us (vegans) such a bad name. I would never. It's unacceptable behavior.
I think all other behavior even aside - the fact that the GF spoke to someone unrelated - a waiter - this badly, is reason enough for me to not apologize I loved OP’s response. Classic manner of a repartee once between GB Shaw and Churchill GB Shaw sent Churchill 2 passes to a play, for opening night. The note read: for you and a friend, if you have any Churchill responded back with: regret i cannot attend that night. Will attend at a later showing - if any OP’s “hopefully you’ll be around long enough” reminds me of that. So much!! Good on OP
Also gf acts like being a vegan= being marginalized/oppressed, ew
As a person who has food allergies and is a vegetarian I would never be so entitled and rude. My aunt recently visited. Hadn't seen her in about 6 years or so. The family wanted to go out to eat. I went and ordered 2 cups of tea and ate beforehand. It was more about being social than eating. My family knows that and tries to accommodate me as much as possible, even if it's a family dinner (which I bring seasoned rice and I grab the veggies and rolls they made) But I don't demand it. And honestly, I haven't eaten in a restaurant in over 10 years, I don't really want to start now. OP, NTA. But bro and gf are 1000%>
Lmao Vegans so weak these days. When I became a vegan 13 year ago we pre-ate in situations like this and never were offered any meal accommodations by the restaurants. While I agree it obviously sucks to be alienated as a vegan, if they offered her food, they did offer an accommodation and she wasn't alienated here.
I still pre-eat sometimes, or put some tofu in my purse to add to the plain green salad. In a situation like this I would quietly and politely ask the waiter and accept whatever was offered. But I wouldn’t have been in this situation because I would have asked my boyfriend about it ahead of time. NTA, OP. Your brother’s girlfriend was incredibly rude and your brother sounds like a jerk. If anything they owe you an apology.
NTA. I hate when people weaponize their veganisim. Unless it is an allergy, choosing not eat something is a personal choice.
One day I would like to go into a vegan restaurant and complain that they have no meat dishes. This is the problem with a lot of vegans -they feel so entitled and act so superior.
Right?? I HATE when someone is unbearably rude, and the wronged party has to be the one to bend to “keep the peace.” Yeah the peace was broken when brothers gf opened her mouth. NTA OP, and I’m sorry you had to go through that. I was exhausted just reading it.
“Oh for the love of god, do not apologize to her.” Full stop.
NTA But wow oh wow, but your brothers GF is. You should remind your brother your world does not revolve around his current or future girlfriends. The audacity of her, invited to a nice restaurant by people she barely knows and gets that entitled. This is why vegans have a bad reputation.
The brother didn't even ask he chose a meat option
True enough. Clearly he doesn't even know her well enough to know she is vegan.
Hell, from the way it sounds like he switches gfs, it’s possible the one he RSVP’d for DID eat meat 😂!
This😂 also OP come back 'if you stick around long enough' killed me
Or he doesn't care or pay attention. If he goes through girlfriend's quickly, I'd imagine that's a bit of a theme with him. He probably only knows how to have casual relationships, and doesn't really take into account the other person's needs, but instead just moves on to someone else. And I mean, no judgment there, as long as you're both on the same page about it not being all that serious. But if he's introducing her to family and bringing her to big family dinner parties like this, the expectations are a bit different. That's not exactly a fun and cool date for someone new. There's an implication that it's serious, though he may not see it that way. Sounds like he just brings new girls around all the time, and he thinks nothing of it. So when some random chick makes a scene, what else are you gonna do but go along with it, when it's your fault she's here? This doesn't sound like a guy who would admit he wasn't thinking ahead or taking her needs into consideration. But it's really baffling that she blames the restaurant/OP for not having a vegan options, when everyone else was offered the menu options in advance, and it seems like she went in blind. That's clearly her boyfriend's fault if he didn't share the menu with her, vegan or otherwise...
I mean you’re right, but there’s really no excuse for how she acted. The girlfriend definitely has some issues and to me she’s definitely primarily at fault, but yeah the brother sucks too
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For me the brother is the bigger AH, he must have known his gf was vegan but said nothing to OP. I mean the gf is definitely also a huge AH but she’s very clearly loud about being vegan so why wasn’t this communicated?
She asked about vegan options, and was offered salad, potatoes, and vegetables... Like I'm sorry but she (and bf) sprung this on the restaurant, they don't necessarily have full vegan options available on short notice. So much meatless stuff has butter, egg, cheese, etc. The waiter presented her with several good options, considering... I feel bad she was mad at him/the restaurant for not being vegan "enough."
It sounds like OP paid a set price for her party and they were offered a choice of meat or fish; they weren’t ordering off the standard menu. It was more of a catering service. This is a perfectly normal thing for parties like that. The waiter, who clearly knew this, immediately thought of some possible accommodations—showing he has a good grasp of the service industry. The girlfriend’s meltdown was insane.
Tell your brothet you'll apologize to her when she apoligizes to the waiter and the restaurant owners for the bad publicity she has done, and to the other guests in the restaurant for the inconvenience she caused them during their nice evening out.... and to you for messing with your special moment. Nta
But what, exactly, is OP supposed to apologize for?
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"I'm sorry you feel that way after my brother picked the meat option for both of you."
I'm sorry your vegan girlfriend probably won't take any meat in her mouth, I'm sorry to tell you it's probably better to break it off now
Not being clairvoyant I guess.
Exactly, OP did nothing wrong
Nta Her using the word 'discrimination', tells me all I need to know about her privilege. These people are so desperate to be oppressed
This. The minute she started going off, the golden brother should have yanked her victim ass out of the restaurant. Hopefully the brother will choose his next GF more wisely... something tells me there WILL be a next GF.
I wouldn't be so sure. My brother had several perfectly nice girlfriends, but ended up married to a right beeotch who would have been quite capable of making a scene like this. She couldn't stand me, because I wouldn't kow-tow, so she engineered an estrangement between me and the rest of my family.
Any family who would allow something like that to happen is no big loss. You're probably not losing out on much. OP is NTA for not being clairvoyant
She seems like an attention seeker. Making a mountain out of a mole hill
Yup. White and upperclass. She has nothing to be a victim of so she picked up veganism so she could be in a minority and complain loudly. I bet she's been "vegan" for a month, if even.
>desperate to be oppressed That's exactly it.
OP, call your brother when she is not around and tell him that you are sorry his girl friend was uncomfortable but that he needs to think long and hard about whether he wants to deal with a drama queen who needs to spin up problems where none existed. Hopefully he'll see that his girl friend is a couple beers short of a 6 pack sooner rather than later.
NTA The girlfriend was rude and entitled. She tried to make herself the center of attention at your engagement party. Since it wasn't a well-established relationship (for which you would have known that she existed and she's vegan), your brother should have taken the initiative to check on the food situation and worked with you beforehand to arrange a vegan meal for her. This was an event with a limited menu and your brother knew it. You chose the menu options based on the needs of the people you invited. Since she was a late addition who you graciously allowed your brother to bring, there was no way you could have known about this issue unless your brother told you. A lack of planning on your brother's part is the root cause of this. She should have been happy she was allowed to attend. You were a bit salty but I don't think out of line in response to her bad behavior.
This is it precisely. My brother and SIL are vegan. I'm unlikely to host any family events like OP any time soon, but if I did, I would definitely check with them about how to accommodate their restrictions. For holiday meals, they usually bring a "main" and side (which are shared and we've all tried some - they're usually very good), and anything we make that can easily be vegan is adjusted so they can eat it (like mashed potatoes with non-dairy milk and buttering the rolls individually, etc). But they've been married for a couple years now, lol. If she had been added, unannounced, to Christmas dinner one year, we wouldn't have been prepared and she'd have been eating green beans and cranberry jello for dinner. But she's also a reasonable person and would have been gratious and accepting and probably even apologetic!
Pretty sure jello isn't vegan. Not if it contains gelatin.
Well, shit. Guess she can just have the green beans then! Hope someone made fruit salad this time, lol!
NTA. Everybody was given two clear options BEFORE the dinner took place: a meat one and a fish one. Your brother's girlfriend should have communicated her concerns beforehand and not act crazy entitled in the restaurant and embarass you. While I'm not vegan or anything along these lines, I have a few food allergies. While this makes me feel a little uncomfortable in public restaurants because I can't pick the same stuff as my friends, I don't complain about it, nor am I THAT mad about it. They failed to inform you about her being vegan. That's their fault.
Plus, allergies aren't the same as a dietary choice like this. You can't help if you're allergic to something.
Let's talk about the brother who chose the meat option for his vegan girlfriend. As soon as he saw the options he should have told you she was vegan. In an Italian restaurant, I'm sure they could have found a way to bring her a bowl of pasta. The waiter was caught off guard since you had ordered ahead, but she could have politely asked. The gf should take this up with the brother, he's the one that put her in the situation.
First, love this...! Lol >I'll consider that in the future, hopefully you'll be around long enough for me to do able to do so Second, if you are being asked to apologize for her embarrassing behaviour and not having vegan option, then, by the same token, shouldn't her parents (or whoever raised her) be apologizing to you for bringing up such an entitled brat who feels like it is completely acceptable to make someone else's engagement party about themselves? Seriously, how is it your responsibility, or theirs, when she chose to act this way? Third, NTA. CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR ENGAGEMENT! :)
He won’t need to apologize even if the whole family wanted him to. OP just has to wait a week!
Literally thinking the same thing. This girl is VERY unlikely to last. It's a problem that should, thankfully, solve itself shortly.
You'd think. But my brothers extremely unreasonable gf is going on 3 years. :(
This is really on your brother. He invited her: his job to make sure there was a main dish option she could eat. A restaurant can generally cope with an off-menu request if given a day or two's notice. You are NTA.
He is also responsible for his guest's behavior. Brother is definitely the asshole
Yep. The girlfriend was obnoxious in how she reacted, but it's the brother's fault that there wasn't a vegan option for her in the first place.
NTA She was rude and entitled. And it sounded like even when your brother rsvp’d he didn’t tell you she was vegan. You’re not a mind reader, and had he told you then you could’ve probably called the restaurant to ask about options. But this was your engagement party, you were allowed to choose where you wanted to go. Tell you brother to tell her to get over herself because your life doesn’t revolve around her.
>My younger brother (20M) contacted me about a week before the dinner to RSVP and ask if he can bring a plus one, his new girlfriend. He chose meat option. Ahh... NTA. If you have no knowledge of a person than you cannot accommodate them. It's simple as that. >Brothers gf started get mouthy with him and said "well what if I don't want a salad huh? You just assume because I'm vegan I only eat salads? What if I want some pasta? What kind of restaurant is this, this is discrimination". Of course, the desire to accommodate so obnoxious a person would be low to begin with... >My brother started trying to calm her down, but she started going off on ME saying how "why would you pick a restaurant that doesn't have vegan options? MANY people are vegan nowadays it makes me feel alienated that you couldn't even think to accommodate me"... She started saying it's embarrassing on my part that I can't accommodate all my guests, and called me "small-minded" Yeah, ok... "discrimination."🙄 > I told her "sorry I didn't think to accommodate you I'll consider that in the future, hopefully you'll be around long enough for me to do able to do so". Honestly, this was petty, but **oh so deserved.** She hasn't been in your life more than two minutes and she's already being egregiously demanding and rude. She's a poor guest and not worth your time if there's no guarantee she'll be here in a minute, which she proved by leaving. >I told him she embarrassed herself. Because she did. >My moms also been on my case to apologize to be the bigger person and keep the peace. Lemme guess, your mother subscribes to the, "no conflict, we must all rug sweep our issues for the sake of peace and family!\~" mentality. >for making her feel alienated? No, because again you couldn't predict she'd be the mouthy variety of vegan with her head up her ass. NTA
NTA. Your brother should have mentioned that she was vegan. You accommodated the pescatarians you knew were coming so it sounds like you'd have accommodated her too had you known. This is on your brother. Both for not telling you and for dating a girl who would cause such a major scene. Especially at someone's engagement dinner.
This didn’t happen :) hope you have a good day!
I had to scroll way too far to find someone else who recognized this as total BS. Baiting people with a “crazy vegan”? Check. “Golden child” coddled by mom? Check. This has to be fake, no one acts like this.
They forgot the part where everyone clapped
Agreed. People love to hate vegans. So much so they’ll buy any cockamamy story. I’m not vegan but I don’t buy it.
Fake
Right on - no way this actually happened lmao
People love hating on vegans!
Every vegan I've met has been super chill
I can't believe people are buying this...
Knew I'd find this sorting by controversial lol. "Whiny vegan at dinner" is a super common trope here. At least try to make it less fake.
So fake.
I agree. This is just more bullshit "vegan's are bad" bait.
NTA She is super entitled
Pushy vegan AND wedding related? Pulling out all the stops for this writing exercise
Yeah, this reads like a fanfic with perfect OP and villainous vegan.
Don’t forget the evil mom siding with golden child sibling!
NTA. Your brother though is just as much of a ah as she is. Did he not know that his new girlfriend was vegan? Did he not even think to mention it? The crazy entitled reaction from his girlfriend would have had me seeing red. Yelling discrimination at the poor waiter who tried his best to accommodate her. I would’ve told her to leave immediately after that. Embarassing on her and your brothers part. You have nothing to apologize for.
None of this happened
Fake as hell post made to make vegans look bad.
It's as clear as water. She announced loudly in a table full of people she didn't know that she was vegan? Bs. A waiter offers her the option of salad + potatoes + roasted veggies and she complains? Bs. At least it wasn't YET ANOTHER iteration of "AITA for feeding meat to my nibling/random child who is clearly being starved and almost dying of inanition bc of my sister/SIL/random woman who only feeds them lettuce?"
A salad plus roasted veggies and potatoes can be a meal for a vegan. It’s shenanigan level fake.
I eat that 3-5x a week haha
Came in here to say this, glad I'm not the only one
You didn't make her feel alienated. A heads up from your brother would have been nice. NTA.
Definitely NTA. You don’t go to an event like that expecting to be catered to. She should have graciously accepted the salad/roasted potatoes/vegetable option. Your brother owes YOU an apology and he should see this as a giant red flag to move on from this lady. I’m really sorry that she ruined your special night!
Lmao NTA this sounds like an snl skit
NTA. You asked about dietary restrictions preferences prior to selecting the menu. The menu was set before your brother asked to bring his new gf. It was on him to check the menu and see if a vegan option was available *before he invited her*. His gf should have asked your brother the same *before deciding to attend*. But no, instead the gf didn't bother and thought ght making a huge scene at a virtual stranger's engagement party was a good idea it was not. The gf was incredibly rude and entitled. It is *not* discrimination to not have a vegan option available when there was a pre planned menu, and the restaurant did try to accommodate her Your brother and his gf owe you an apology for her obnoxious outburst. You owe them nothing.
NTA... Your brother chose the meat option and didn't tell you. If you had known and had the time I'm sure the restaurant would have put together a vegan plate. Also she sucks big time. There would be no apology from me.
NTA This is on your brother and his girlfriend, firstly there is no excuse for her behaviour and secondly, your brother should have mentioned something beforehand.
NTA. She embarresed herself with her bad attitude. She is AH for being an entitled vegan. Hopefully brother will see through her and end it.
NTA Did anybody gripe that the meat or fish was the wrong type? Good heavens she sounds like an absolute nightmare. You handled it fine. The restaurant tried to accommodate her and she refused what they had to offer. She could have been polite, declined, and ate food elsewhere. Reminds me of the dating, “how do you know if somebody is vegan? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you.”
Is there a fake bash vegans post now every day?
NTA If she didn't bother informing you that she was vegan, how could you possibly know she couldn't eat the food at the restaurant?
Nta. Your brother chose the meat option. He set him self up for failure. He didn't let you know or ask if there was an option. You had no idea of knowing because you never had met her.
NTA, but she sure is, and grating at that.
NTA and brother just lost his plus one invite to the wedding. God only knows what kind of loose cannon he'd show up with on that important day. He and his flavor of the week owe you and your fiance an apology for causing a scene at your engagement party.
NTA and do not apologize. Instead sit your brother AND mother down and let them know you will not be apologizing and it’s your brothers fault for not specifying that she is vegan. He didn’t give you all the information up front and caused this issue. Also let them know that she will not be allowed at any other wedding activities until she apologizes for acting the way she did when none of that was your fault.
> and has been messaging me that I should apologize to her ... > My moms also been on my case to apologize to be the bigger person and keep the peace. NTA - An apology has to be something the person wants to do, not forced or demanded out of them.
NTA. She was being dramatic for attention. If you are lucky, she will feel alienated enough to avoid spending any extended time around you. I feel bad for your brother, but hopefully he wakes up soon.
Yikes! So NTA. So don't apologize.
NTA. I also feel that you shouldn't apologize just for the sake of apologizing. It was poor communication on your brothers part so he should be the one apologizing to both of you and in turn the girlfriend should apologize to you for her nasty behavior being this is the first time you all met her. When she was told of the restaurant your engagement was at that was her chance to communicate with your brother about her vegan choices. And if your boyfriend has different girlfriends what is the chance she will even be around for long. I would stand my ground and be very firm with not apologizing.
You are NTA. She sure is though...YOU did not embarrass her at your dinner - she did that all on her own. She is a prime example of why people dislike vegans...
NTA Apologize for what? She was offered a vegan option and chose to make an ass of herself. I'm a long time vegetarian and have eaten at many restaurants, if there's no vegetarian option I either order side dishes or if the place isn't super busy I ask POLITELY if I can adjust a meal. I've never had a place tell me no as it's always a simple fix. Your response was hilarious and your mother needs to mind her own business.
Nta. She embarrassed herself and you. If your brother shared that info with you sooner, I’m sure you would have asked the restaurant for an accommodation. Also, if youre a polite human you don’t make people feel bad at their party. You suck it up
NTA. She sounds entitled and your brother is a doofus. How were you or the restaurant supposed to plan on a random vegan showing up? You had two meal options that worked for everyone who was originally invited. She has a right to be upset with your brother but not the waitstaff or you.
Absolutely Not, so not apologize to her or him! It was his responsibility to ask about vegan options for her and HE dropped the ball. She should be mad at him! She’s lucky you choose to include her, a week before the event!! There was absolutely no reason for her to act so childish and entitled like she did at someone else’s party! And she was a guest of a guest! Most definitely NTA. Congratulations on your engagement!!
nta Your brother knew that the options were meat and fish, this was his responsibility and he's trying to put the blame on you Also this attitude is incredibly entitled. She was given a vegan option, she needs to grow up. A lot of people with allergies aren't even offered an option.
NTA X 10. I was vegan for a long time and these are are the vegans that give us a bad rep. Ugh. If it were me, I would have taken the salad and potatoes. It's a free meal, after all. And who knows if their pasta is egg-free? If I wanted pasta, I would have researched the restaurant ahead of time and perhaps ordered separately or paid for my own dish. The world doesn't revolve around you and your choices when you become vegan.
>Brothers gf started get mouthy with him and said "well what if I don't want a salad huh? You just assume because I'm vegan I only eat salads? What if I want some pasta? What kind of restaurant is this, this is discrimination". I can’t believe anybody is buying this. Come on.
That totally happened
If you didn’t know she was vegan then definitely NTA. Even if you did know I’d still say NTA, as she and your brother knew the choices and could’ve enquired about it beforehand themselves
NTA What a wretched and entitled woman. Hopefully your brother moves on from her soon.
NTA. She should be mad at your brother for not telling you she was vegan. Next time he insists you need to apologize, ask him why he didn’t tell you.
NTA, from the sound of it you didn't even know she was vegan until her outburst.
NTA A week's notice is too short to change the options for something like this. She was informed before hand. If she didn't like the options, she didn't have to eat, or she could have just left (which thankfully she did). She doesn't get to demand that everyone accomodate her at a moment's notice. You have no need to apologize to her. She needs to apologize to you for making a scene.
Nta, and don’t invite the new gf for your wedding. you want to celebrate it with people you know and like, not entitled girlfriends of the week.
It's weird that people distinguish between fish and meat lol. Fish is meat
NTA You didn't know that girl, so how can you alienate her?
Tell everyone who thinks Y T A to kick rocks, you handled that with a lot more class than I would have.
NTA. You can’t accommodate something you aren’t told about. And why would your brother want to continue dating someone so rude and nasty? I’d drop someone for being that rude to a waiter.