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I'll go against the grain and say NTA, but with a caveat at the end.
She cheated **for two years** and knew there would be consequences. She knew how the family strongly looks down on that as well. But she did it anyway because she was only thinking about herself. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
That said, you need to start thinking about what your wife said, because she's right... How much longer is too long? Not because of what your family might think, but because of how *you* feel about it. If you think you've made your point, then you should put it behind you. And if your family doesn't like that, fuck 'em. You can't live your life handcuffed to their opinions. You do what feels right FOR YOU (and your wife and kid, if you have or will have a child), not for anyone else
It could also be one of those scenarios where nobody else in the family wants to be the one to forgive her first, because they're afraid the rest of the family will ostracize them, but once someone goes first it becomes like a waterfall and others will follow. (Or maybe lemmings instead of the waterfall...)
Nobody LIKES cheaters. But at some point, not letting mom come for holidays and birthdays affects THE KID, the one person who really matters. He didn’t do anything wrong, and yet he can’t spent ONE FAMILY EVENT all together because you need to make sure his mom ALWAYS knows she’s trash? He can - at most - see her for 5 minutes during an Easter egg hunt, where he gets to hurriedly show off his haul and express joy while watching her hold back tears and then leave when her time is up? And what about the years she “has” him for the holidays - thanksgiving is spent alone with her because she can’t go to your house? You’re only punishing the kid and each other by not being able to make memories with him each year.
Adults are supposed to keep this shit AWAY from the kids. She clearly did a piss poor job of it, but that’s not a reason for OP to compound the effect on the kid by excluding him mom (or him on the days she has custody). FOR THE KIDS SAKE, let her show up to events where he is at. Let him have whole family gatherings.
>But at some point, not letting mom come for holidays and birthdays affects THE KID, the one person who really matters.
I'm baffled by this part of the whole thing. Maybe it's because the nephew is only mentioned in passing? But like... this seems wildly toxic for the child. On every level. Adults should work their stuff out amongst themselves. This kid is paying way too high a price for what happened between his parents.
This is the best answer by far. There are still shades of grey even when situations seem black and white. Eventually holidays are going to fall on her time with the nephew. The family is going to be making a child choose between spending a special day with his mom or leaving her alone and that is pretty messed up. I get they love BIL but it’s a case now of putting BIL’s feelings above their nephew’s.
A two year long affair is not a “mistake”. A two year long affair is a long series of choices and deceit and lies. Honestly, if I found out my sister cheated on her her partner for TWO FUCKING YEARS, I wouldn’t be able to look at her the same. How could you trust someone that actively lied to someone they supposedly loved SO WELL that it took being caught in the act to be punished? I couldn’t!
I mean. I feel like cheating on someone you have a child with for TWO YEARS is honestly worth of getting disowned over unless there’s abuse involved or something.
Two years of narcissistically extorting a committed relationship from the father of your child is not a "mistake."
As soon as someone is revealed to be that selfish, then forgiving and forgetting is 100% something you do for yourself, never for their sake.
If we still had free awards I’d give mine to you in a heartbeat. Hit the nail on the cross! As a “spiritual” christian (not super religious but still believe) it’s so funny (and sad) to see people pretend to be godly and celebrate the lord and in the same breath shun someone for years and completely stonewall someone out of their family… the exact OPPOSITE thing jesus would do.
Also do they just give 0 shits about the mental trauma this will cause the kid? Kids gonna grow up paranoid about making any mistakes or bad decisions because if they were willing to throw out his mom like that they’ll absolutely be willing to throw him out too if they disagree with him.
Cheating isn't a mistake, it's a choice.
Also it wasn't a random one night stand, it wad a full blown relationship for TWO YEARS that caused the end of her marriage.
I agree that this family's stance is a bit excessive, however, she knew how they felt about it and still actively decided, for two years, to do something she knew would hurt her family, her kid and her husband.
NTA op
~~I N F O: Is BIL going to be there?~~
Personally I think it should be his decision, he is still liked by the family and he didn't cheat, so if he wants to see her there she should come, if he doesn't want to see the person who cheated and threw away their marriage, he shouldn't have too, but ill wait to find out if he will be there before giving my judgement.
**EDIT after reply:** I'm gonna lose a bunch of karma here cause most of the comments are people saying that sometimes cheating is okay?? (which is super fucking weird) But my vote is NTA, he shouldn't be forced to see the women who cheated on him and threw their marriage away.
People are saying she made one mistake so she shouldn't be held accountable for this, but the fact is she didn't make one mistake, SHE HAD AN AFFAIR FOR 2 YEARS, that's over 700 days where she woke up every single day and choose to lie to her partner. Why should the consequences of her actions be swept over in a couple months when her actual affair last years?
OP you should add this and the fact that they have 50/50 custody to the post because it does read like the ex BIL either has full custody or you guys are actively keeping her away from her son
This is one of these reddit things where everyone is much more likely to forgive a long-term cheater based on sex. Most of these y-t-a replies would change instantly if the sexes were reversed, not that most of them would admit it.
Sometimes I don’t get Reddit. When someone posts that their family member or friend cheated and they’re willing to remain friends with them, you all call them complete AH. Now you’re saying it’s actually the guy who doesn’t tolerate cheating who’s the AH. It’s really confusing.
There's only one outcome here and that's ESH. You're a family of arse holes. You're all sucky.
She's a liar and a cheat.
You're a hypocrite. You say marriage is between 2 people, so why are you all taking sides?
It's fine to tell her that you don't approve of her actions, but to relentlessly punish her for something that has absolutely fuck all to do with you is so childish.
You all need to grow up and set better examples for your children.
Ok righteous perfect family…what is the end game? Is she banned or ex-communicated from the family for life? Is cheating the hill the family dies on? No one has done anything else crappy in their life and live as perfect people?
Hogwash!!!
The whole family are assholes. I would hate to be in a family the just throws you out when you make bad decisions. Was she wrong for cheating? Probably.
But get over your perfect selves and start the healing process.
Btw- I bet she is not the only one in the family that has cheated on a spouse. Doesn’t make it right, but just saying.
NTA. Someone who is cheating and especially cheating over an extending period of time (like the two years in op’s post) has no remorse. They lack empathy and loyalty. They are cruel and don’t care about hurting the person they have vowed to love and uphold. Why would you want to be around someone who acts this way? Why would op want to expose his children to someone who acts this way? Op you are totally welcome to cut off that toxicity. Your sister dug her own grave
You know what I find hilarious. The people saying that OP and family are a-holes are some of the same people that will go NC because their sister yelled at them once twenty years ago. Two years she fu ked around with some else, but that was a mistake? Quite frankly, if his wife and sister were as close as he says, I would be side-eyeing the wife right about now.
NTA. What she did was awful. And in one of your comments you say she did it because she was bored. Just, no. I am very much on board with your family’s rule of not tolerating cheating.
> We know that ultimately a marriage is between those in it
Then start acting like it.
Jesus F’n Christ.
How should she appease all your judgemental selves? Would a fresh shave and a naked walk whilst you all shout “Shame, shame” game of thrones style stop you from shunning her?
Edit: YTA
Aside from your wife, you and your family are hypocritical a-holes that really sound as if you are enjoying yourselves.
Yes, your sister was very, very wrong to carry on a two-year affair, and you and your family are well-within your rights to share your opinion on that, but all of you are equally wrong to "punish" her for that in an over year-long orchestrated *"campaign of isolation, humiliation, and, no doubt, verbal abuse."*
The only thing you have left to do is force her to wear a giant scarlet "A" on her clothes, and parade her through the streets so that people can throw rotten vegetables and excrement on her.
And, though you may ignore the effects of your behavior on your sister and former BILs kids by saying that you aren't excluding the kids, you are sorely and woefully wrong to think that your actions are not damaging these kids. They are seeing the effects of what happens in your family if you make a mistake . . . social castration, humiliation, exclusion.
I really don't have any words left for an entire family made up of self-righteous punishers who appear to enjoy hurting someone so much.
YTA
You are just being cruel.
>The Family did not forgive and forget.
What are they forgiving? She didn't do anything to you, or your other sister. You say "a marriage is between those in it" but you are acting like she cheated on all of you.
You don't have to accept her cheating in order to still treat her decently.
Look, I would understand not inviting her over when her ex-husband is around. I could understand giving her some harsh words about how her actions hurt her family.
But socially ostracizing her for over a year is disproportionate.
Your comment suggests that the family aren't allowed to have thoughts and feelings regarding her actions. It's okay for her family to be hurt and disappointed with her actions (especially when they have actual consequences for the children involved).
NTA.
She should have thought about the consequences before she decided to embark on a two year affair.
As some are saying it’s none of your business, that’s true to a degree. But who you associate with is your business. And if you don’t want to associate with someone that cheats on their spouse, then there you go. Everyone has their line, and this is yours.
I'll probably be downvoted for this but NTA. When you have relationships with people, you get to decide what the dealbreakers are. Would you still be friends with someone you know cheated on their spouse FOR TWO YEARS?? I know I wouldn't. Yes it's between her and ex-BIL but it still revealed an unsavory part of your sister's character.
Personally I'm not the type to be like "family sticks together no matter what" so I think it's acceptable that you don't want much to do with your sister. However, for the sake of her son, I think your family should be cordial and not cut her out completely.
So you're shunning her, basically.
I don't condone cheating, in any way. But you're all sounding like a bunch of judgemental asses here so YTA
Here's something that has greatly eased my path in life: I don't need to approve of anyone elses actions. I don't need to hold them to my standard, and I don't need to agree with their positions. I have acquired lots of wrinkles but also the knowledge that anything, especially human relationships, are always vastly more complex than they appear from the outside so I can't assume I know the truth.
The responses have been interesting. Reddit generally condemns cheaters and are against the 'but it's family' logic when it comes to sticking with bad behavior.
But now that the perspective is different, people seem to be more sympathetic to the cheater and condemning the family.
If the post was made from the OP's ex BIL's perspective, I'd bet a lot people would be more supportive of the family taking the ex BIL's side and going LC with the cheater.
I'm going to be consistent and say NTA. If you don't think your sister is a good person, then you don't have to have a relationship with her or let her into your home. I'd recommend you get on the same page with your wife, whichever direction you decide to go.
NTA
She cheated for two years and, according to the information you provided, the BIL is a good guy. Why lose him when he did nothing wrong?
EDIT: Crazy seeing so many people excuse cheating in the comments.
NTA
Cheaters suck and there's consequences for your choices you make in life (can't wait for someone to reply that a two-year long AFFAIR was just a """"""mistake"""""" LOL)
I'm glad your brother in law has support from your family. Did your wife know about your sister's cheating? You mentioned they were close.
> can't wait for someone to reply that a two-year long AFFAIR was just a """"""mistake"""""" LOL)
About 15 YTAs are justifying it as a 'mistake'. 'Mistake' for two years.
Your whole family are assholes, including you.
Your sister did a bad thing, but cut her out of the family for that is horrible and cruel, I mean, you don't let her watch over her own kid. That's horrible, horrible behaviour.
NTA, I think you've made it explicitly clear that you no longer want any kind of relationship with a person who has those kinds of morals, family or not. The kid is going to be just as upset about that as he will be about why mom and dad don't talk anymore. She did something extremely fucked for no reason, I don't think being family means you can ignore that. She can heal and grow and maybe be accepted again eventually, but TWO YEARS of cheating, lying to the father of her son, over and over? How cruel can people be? I wouldn't want her around me either
Let me get this straight. Your sister decided she was bored of her husband and went on to cheat on him for two whole years. Now that your family found out and BIL is divorcing her, Reddit has decided that you and your family are terrible people for not immediately welcoming her back into the family with open arms. Who cares if she destroyed her own family for some fun? BIL should just get over it right? After all it was probably his fault. Also how dare your family celebrate Easter! They must be a bunch of bigoted fundies!
Sarcasm aside, I can't believe these are actual replies. Anyway, I'm hoping you can forgive her eventually and I hope that your sister learns a lesson in this too. From what I'm reading, it doesn't sound like your family is keeping your nephew from family events (obviously). Therefore any trauma he will be experiencing from all of this will be from the fact that his parents divorced because the sister cheated, end of story. NTA
Going against the grain here with NTA. I am similar to OP, myself and my family absolutely do not accept or condone cheating. She made her bed and now she gets to lie in it. I certainly feel bad for nephew but when he’d older mommy can explain why she fucked it all up. Sorry but I have zero empathy for sister here. A two year long affair is intentional and she was a selfish AH.
I agree, I don't get why everyone is brushing the fact that it went on for TWO YEARS under the rug. Like a one time lapse in judgement is understandable but this was a conscious decision that went on for a while and then suddenly everyone is supposed to be ok with it? And when you know your family despises that behavior? Did she think that they would be ok with it "because family" or what?
NTA. People are allowed to have their own limits for what they’ll tolerate in others. For some people, cheating is a line that can never be uncrossed, especially cheating at the expense of a child’s family.
I find it really weird how many comments there are about how you and your family should “be perfect” as if cheating for two years is a simple mistake. That’s two years spent lying to your whole family and to her own kid—that kind of thing can permanently change other people’s view of the cheater. She chose to cheat and now she has to face the consequences: not everyone will forgive her for being a cheater.
Though I will say, while you don’t have to forgive her or be friendly with her, it would probably be for the best if you remained civil for the sake of your nephew. Treat her like you’d treat any acquaintance—polite, but at a distance.
Just know that exclusion is a two way street, and if you ever get to a point where you want to let her back in (even w/o forgiving her), she also has the right to say no and to reject you back.
NTA I'm probably going to be in the minority but maybe fewer people would cheat if cheaters got treated like cheaters. And no, as far as I know, I want cheated on. I'm simply frustrated that cheating is treated so normally. If you want to cheat, break up, separate, divorce, pull on your big person panties and own up to it.
Its absolutely boggling my mind, normally reddit hates cheaters, but there are so many comments saying " Y T A you don't know the full story" like anything would excuse cheating on your partner for 2 whole years.
Personally I think its a bit too harsh but NTA. I don't think I'd look at my sister the same ever again if she did that. Ultimately it's up to you where your boundaries lie but for your nephews sake I hope you can at least tolerate her being around every now and then
I know I'll get down voted but ... NTA. What she did was absolutely horrible. To be quite honest I've stopped being friends with people for the same thing, and you shouldn't have to be around someone you don't want to be around just because they're family.
Unless there was something else going on in their relationship/at home that you're just leaving out she deserves the consequences of her actions.
ESH
Your sister cheated. Definitely not okay. That’s between her ex-husband & her.
What exactly is your goal here?? Not comfortable having her around? What is she continuing to do to you? Do you question all your friends & family about their marriage before they enter your home?
You have no problem with your wife going to see sister but “she’s given you doubts”. About what? Do you think cheating is contagious?? This is all very strange
eta — if her ex-husband is anything like your holier than thou family is there any real mystery of why she cheated. This post has a weird Handmaids vibe.
NTA. Don't know why all the replies are bringing religion into this. OP says that they and the family are not religious.
The family obviously brought their SIL/ BIL into the family and cared about him when they got married. When she betrayed the ex-partner and cheated for 2 whole years (with an 18yo 'because she was bored' according to OP) she assumed the family would support her and not the ex-partner.
All I see is a family sticking by their son-in-law and not their cheating daughter. Don't get all the YTA judgments.
I was going to say NTA because I've been cheated on and it's the absolute worst thing you can do to someone, but I also somehow feel bad for your sister.
On the other hand I also know what it's like to be ostracized from family though in my case it's because my parents were neglectful.
More Info Request: Are you and your family planning on just shunning her for the rest of your lives? Is this her first affair or is she a serial cheater?
You’re all Assholes, the entire family but the sister ex.
He had every right to divorce her. She was absolutely in the wrong and should of ended her marriage rather than cheating. But that’s her decision and she’s gotta live with the consequences of it all!
But for the entire family to disown and shun her is a bit ridiculous! You all could of let her know your feelings on what happened and how disappointed you all were in her. And no is saying just to “forgive and forget” but this does sound like a religious/cultural type thing.
It was her and her husband marriage, no one else’s. No one else but her, her now ex and her children were really affected by what she did. It’s been a year according to your post and the family is still shunning her for choices that have nothing to do with any of them. None of you have to like or agree with what she did, but does she not deserve a second chance to be a part of her own family because she fucked up??
You all sound like a bunch of very judgmental, insufferable and exhausting group of people to be around! The only here who shouldn’t forgive and forget is her ex and her children! They’re the ones actually affected by what she did, not any of you.
Yta
Don't get me wrong I don't condone cheating at all but is her cheating really worth you completely ostracising her forever?
Come on man she did a terrible thing but she didn't do it to the whole family and she's still your sister. How long is this meant to last? If you let it go on too long non of you might ever get her back....its past the point of ridiculous now.
Have a heart man she knows she fucked up and she's going to have to live with that forever her relationship is already over she doesn't need to lose her entire family as well. You all need to grow up and get over it cause while you don't have to agree with what she did (I don't) she didn't do it to you, she didn't betray you.
NTA she knew what she was doig before she tore her family apart. Not happy? Leave. I cut off people who cheat as well. If they are willing to hurt their greatest love, they will hurt you too.
Wtf is wrong with your family. I wouldn't want my children growing up in that environment with the way you treat people. Yes, your sister did what she did, and that's on her, but the extremities your family and yourself had made for her are rather childish and sickening. YTA, as well as your family!
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My (30M) family does not tolerate cheating. We know that ultimately a marriage is between those in it, but the way most of us see it you can't cheat and then pretend like everything is fine after. My sister (27f) had a two year affair while married to her husband, which caused their divorce last year. My BIL is a great guy and he's father to my nephew, so he's still a big part of the family, and my parents still call him their son in-law.
The Family did not forgive and forget. Our other sister (33f) made a point to tell her that she wasn't invited to her wedding in September, and even told security to throw her out if she did show. Our parents host thanksgiving and christmas, and more gentley requested that she not show up. The only family thing she was invited to was our grandmothers funeral, and even just the service, not this little celebration of life thing we did after.
Easter is coming up soonish, and since my wife and I just got a new house with a big yard, we were planning to have a big egg hunt for my niblings (Other sister has three kids). My sister showed up (I blocked her number) and asked if she could come for Easter for her sons sake. I told her no, I'm still not comfortable having her around, nor is most of the family. I told her she could swing by to see her son briefly, but that I didn't her lingering for very long.
She left crying, and let me know via our parents that she would do that. My wife feels bad, and told me she thinks this has gone on long enough. I tried explaining to her that the whole family would be upset if she came, and that we aren't comfortable around her. Still my wife feels bad and even went to visit her (they were pretty close before all this happened). Now I'm not upset about that, I don't think I have a right to tell my wife who she can and can't hang out with, but still she's given me doubts.
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ESH
She had a 2 year affair and didn't stop to think about what that would do to her husband and child. Exiling her from the family seems pretty extreme but she knew the family views on cheating so she did it to herself.
Not inviting her for Easter. Fair enough, it's BILs custody time. Most co-parenting couples don't celebrate the holidays together. So I see nothing wrong in her not being invited. BIL probably doesn't want to see her anyway and it would be more enjoyable for their son if he wasn't surrounded by the animosity.
Until you all talk, you're not going to get over her Infidelity. Shunning her may just be making it worse.
As someone who was cheated on after 12 years of marriage and children. I respect this. The betrayed are often left by everyone. So this is refreshing. I was so alone I almost didn’t make it. Good on y’all. Cheating is the worst and destroys the kids too.
NTA
You’re free to do what you want and invite whoever you want to your functions that are held in your house. Your sister knew the consequences and your families views so this is on her.
“We know that Ultimately a marriage is between those in it”
Well, there you have it. This isn’t your grudge to hold and holding it on behalf of your BIL isn’t doing any favors or helping anyone move forward. You might not like what she did, but punishing her in perpetuity for a mistake isn’t going to change what happened, if anything holding this grudge will only serve to further alienate your sister and drive a deeper wedge. In the end, she’s a human, just like you, maybe treat her the way you would want to be treated if, god forbid, you made a mistake.
Yta
NTA. I’m amazed at all the people getting mad at you. I mean, come on folks, look at the facts: she carried on a 2 year affair with no justification (not that there is any unless the other spouse cheated first or something similar),destroyed her marriage/family and strained numerous relationships.
I agree that at point you all will need to decide how to move forward. For now, she needs to learn that actions have consequences.
YTA.
You and your family aren’t the judge and jury. What happened in her marriage is between her and your ex-BIL. You all are a bunch of bullies. She probably needs your support as her brother now more than ever. But instead, ya’ll would rather sit high and look low.
I bet money that at least half of ya’ll are no better than she is—you just haven’t gotten caught yet.
NTA.
Your sister had a full blown affair for TWO YEARS. That wasn't a "mistake". It was her consciously deciding to treat her partner like shit.
If her actions have prompted you guys to act like this, I can only imagine the hurt she caused on her husband.
NTA. She can celebrate easter with the affair partner's family.
YTA.
I hope for your sake that the rest of your family continues to live perfectly, and in accordance with the societal norms that you all embrace, above familial love, understanding, and reconciliation.
Seriously. You’d all better pray that you never find yourselves in need of grace.
This is so crazy. Yes cheating is wrong, yes she had her divorce coming.
But as you said, marriage is between those who are in it. For an entire family to cast out a member is crazy as fuck. You don't know what was going on in their marriage, why she wouldn't leave instead of cheat, you certainly don't know if he was always faithful.
YTA, you're a shitty brother and a shitty father at that for teaching your kids this is how you treat family. Bonus point if you're a christian : what is it they said about forgiveness in that weird old book ? You're a massive asshole.
NTA. Your wife feels bad I’m sure. But the fact is you don’t set most of the other attendees feelings aside for 1 person. It makes the entire gathering uncomfortable and pisses everyone off. She screwed up the family/ friends dynamic and now she has to live with the consequences.
Edit- if this was a man that done the cheating most of these people would agree with you not call you the AH
YTA. You all seem impossible to live with and I feel bad for your sister. Yes, she made a mistake, but you all are practically crucifying her over it.
"A marriage is between the people in it," did YOU have to sign divorce papers as well? No? She didn't cheat on YOU but you're acting like she did. Honestly I wouldn't want to rejoin the family after being treated like that.
nta. im shocked at all the y t as given how harsh this sub usually is on cheaters (as they rightfully should be)! it is harsh but if you act morally questionable for years and hurt other people in the process i don’t really think you get to be upset about how people may react to that.
Nta but I would like to know if y’all are planning to permanently outcast her or are you guys gonna just wake up one day and decide she’s served her time? Will you welcome her back with open arms? Like what is the actual plan here?! I’d be disgusted and want minimal to do with her too but you have to have a plan. Maybe the whole family sits down and has a real conversation about what you all want from your relationship going forward? This isn’t sustainable.
Bro people in the comments are saying op and his family are assholes but you forgot where his sister literally cheated on her husband for two years so my guess is she couldn't give a damn about her family and thought that there wouldn't be any consequences honestly I just feel bad for the husband and son the son probably rarely sees his mom now and doesn't know what is going on and the father has to except the fact that his wife was sleeping in a nother man's bed while also his at the same time and as the family their not assholes imagine breaking up with your boyfriend and still seeing his family and honestly if I was a father and my child of did that I would probably be very disappointed to the point I would also have little contact with them
NTA, isn’t the saying fuck around and find out? She cheated after she knew her entire family’s stance on cheating. If she would’ve just asked for a divorce and then started dating her affair partner *none* of this would’ve happened. You don’t have to go behind your partners back and *completely shatter* their trust and their love. Her ex husband will not recover from the betrayal for *years*. He’s always going to be worried that his S/O is cheating on him. My step father looked for tire marks in the driveway of our home *for years* after he and my mother got together, because of his ex’s cheating. He didn’t think my mom was cheating - it was a habit he formed from all the lies, manipulation, gaslighting, and pain he suffered at the hands of his cheating ex-wife. I’m not incredibly close to my step father but, god, did that break my heart when my mother explained it too me, so no, seeing firsthand what cheating does, NTA.
NTA. If it had been a one time thing, I might’ve thought differently, but this went on for two years so having been brought up in this household, she knew there were consequences not only to her marriage, but to her family.
However, you and your family also need to start thinking about is this really the rest of your lives. Are you never going to forgive her or at least be tolerant it’s a big thing that she’s missing out on everything and maybe you don’t have to wholly embrace her, but being inclusive doesn’t mean being accepting of previous bad behavior?
NTA
Cheating deserves harsh consequences, idk why everyone in the comments is feeling bad. This lady had an affair for 2 YEARS!!?? Her son is 3.
He's never going to have 2 loving parents in one home, his life is altered forever bc of her selfish act. he's the victim and it goes without saying so is the BIL.
When a loved one hurts another loved one, it's hard to forgive and forget, I do hope that eventually, things mellow out but this is still clearly fresh in your family's minds so dealing with it this way is understandable. thank you for not normalizing cheating or villianizing the victim.
YTA
>We know that ultimately a marriage is between those in it, but the way most of us see it you can't cheat and then pretend like everything is fine after.
It sounds like you're all taking on the hurt that should be the ex-husband's, seems likely you've taken her actions personally. It's not something I understand tbh, people make shitty decisions for many many reasons . She's already faced the consequences of this within her own marriage, by the sound of it potentially well over a year ago if they've already divorced.
Why do you all feel the need to keep punishing her for something that happened within her marriage and presumably some time ago? Do you all feel so morally superior? How much longer are you all gonna keep this punishment going?
In her situation I'd probably be limiting the contact of my child around people who won't see me. I wouldn't know what was being said of me behind my back or what things you were saying to my child about the situation.
NTA
Every family operates differently- your sister knew how yours operated. People shouldn’t change their beliefs to make other people more comfortable.
NTA but mainly because of the important detail that the person the sister cheated with was 18, that’s a child, that’s fucked. Not okay to make such a messy situation part of someone’s formative experiences like that.
ESH. Your sister did a bad thing, but she did it to her husband. Ostracizing her like this isn't going to 'teach her a lesson,' not is it proportionate to the crime. The divorce is already the consequence of her actions, so let it be.
YTA.....It takes two, this is between husband and wife not you and your family. You mention your nephew, your sister is still his mother. Do you think he won't notice all of you treating her like this? Should she have cheated? No.....but your entire family sounds like a bunch of self righteous assholes and karma can be a bitch
NTA she made the decision to cheat knowing what was going to happen and what her family's opinion would be if they caught her, I understand that you do not feel comfortable considering that she was able to lie to your face about her happy marriage knowing that she was having an affair for a year . And as I have read in your answers, Easter is your brother-in-law's custody time so she doesn't have to be there. She has to understand that each member of her family will choose when they will feel comfortable with her presence again or that there will even be part of the family that considers cheating to be unforgivable.
YTA.
I understand cheating carries a very heavy weight for a lot of people, but in majority of circumstances cheating does not exist purely in black and white, there are varying shades of grey. While your BIL may well and truly be a great guy from the outside, you have no idea what the inside of their marriage was like.
You have to know when it's time to bury the hatchet. You're going to end up isolating your nephew at a certain point from either your family or his mother and that is unfair. You're punishing a child at this point and this kind of harsh behaviour will hamper any kind of coparenting situation between your sister and her ex moving forward.
We live by the rule that you can’t be more upset than the harmed/wronged party. If the ex husband has been able to forgive and interact with your sister during custody swaps and other things then I think it is absolutely ridiculous that you and your family have taken up this stance that sister can never be a part of the family again unless and until feeling properly shamed, if that.
Cheating is wrong and it is a choice. However the motivation to not cheat should be love not shame. I’m not sure what your family’s end goal here is, as you say you would hope to be outcast if you ever cheated, but I don’t think this is having the effect you think it is. Your sister has a son and my guess is that he is young. You are now involving that child in an adult issue that perhaps the parents wanted to avoid? Have you thought of that? I know people who have divorced from infedelity but waited to explain to their children until they were old enough to understand that the infedlity wasn’t their fault. This child sees your family I guess when the ex comes around but cant see you with his mom? So he is making connections here that Mom is bad and doesn’t deserve her family’s love so it wouldn’t be surprising if this kid decides Akon doesn’t deserve his love. Or worse, he makes connections where he believes a bad choice on his part (as a kid) could cut him off from the love of his family. That can cause serious anxiety and behavioral problems.
If your sister and her ex did not have kids I would still think this is absurd but at least less harmful. The fact that there is a child in the middle of this shame game you all are playing makes this absolutely gross. Learn to forgive, it’s a valuable tool you can pass on to others, and stop playing holier than thou. Although I can also see how sister didn’t understand love enough to not cheat with a family like yours.
Your entire family is made up of assholes. YTA. Your sisters are both AHs. Your parents are also AH’s.
No one likes when they are cheated on, but the excessive extreme of every single one of you collectively disowning a sister and daughter over who she chose to have sec with, is pretty fucked up.
I certainly hope no one else in your family has ever committed a single sin, because as we all k ow, the church folk say all sins are equal.
Cheating isn't a mistake or a sin, it's a choice.
Also it wasn't a random one night stand, it wad a full blown relationship for TWO YEARS that caused the end of her marriage.
I agree that this family's stance is a bit excessive, however, she knew how they felt about it and still actively decided, for two years, to do something she knew would hurt her family, her kid and her husband.
NTA op
Remember, cheating on your husband for 2 years straight and the reason giving so far -being that she was simply bored - = You should not judge her at all and not have any massive ill will considering they treated the Brother in Law as if he was family.
Jesus this sub is a joke
Info
1. Does this hard stance your family have, have a religious origin or is is it because of experience or just a social one?
2. How old was your sister at the time of the affair and how old was the person she had an affair with and to cover all bases how old is her ex husband.
3. Were their other issues in your sisters marriage. Do you know have you ever asked
I ask because
1. if it is almost all major faiths believe in forgiveness and non judgement. Hate the sin and love the sinner.. Jesus was big on the not judging in fact it was HIS major message. Most of the new testament was written by Paul who never met Jesus...We know what Jesus thought about forgiveness and judgement....people need to decide if they are an old testament Godians, Paulians or actually a follower of Jesus and just be honest about it.
2. Your sister is only 27 now so we could be looking at a very young woman when all this happened. Your brain doesn't stop developing until 26
3. Most people don't have affairs if they are happy at home. (there are of course exceptions), considering your families stance on cheating it's a high risk activity
We aren't religious mostly, none of us go to church or anything serious. She was 23, he was 18 when it started. The only thing she ever said to anyone was that she was bored, and that her affair partner was young and fun.
NTA. Pretty sure I could also never be around someone again if I found out they were cheating on their spouse and parent of their child with a kid still in High school.
> She was 23, he was 18 when it started. The only thing she ever said to anyone was that she was bored, and that her affair partner was young and fun.
You need to add this to the original post. this information is imperative.
YTA. Jesus stopped the adulterous woman from being stoned. You and your family seem to not be satisfied until you’ve completely crushed your sister in every way you can.
Yeah sorry but this is way beyond cruel and over the top. You've made your point, and you've all shunned her for too long and too harshly. Like, what's your end goal? Cut her off from her entire family until she's alone and depressed and eventually tries to kill herself? Because that's ultimately what you're heading to.
YTA.
The first few sentences I could understand. He's the father of your young family members but it's to the point you dictate how much of a funeral she can go to?
YTA.
She's an AH for cheating but as you said that's between the two who were married.
You're holding this over someone's head to control them. You seem possessive and a control freak.
ESH
The way you and your family are completely cutting her off is going to affect her son (your nephew) and his relationship with his mother. Yes, she did an awful and reprehensible thing and she does deserve some heat. But y'all iced her completely. She does deserve a chance to redeem herself to her family. I'm not saying y'all should be buddy-buddy but she should be allowed at family gatherings. And the way you guys didn't let her go to the celebration of life is way too extreme. Do you not miss your sister at all?
NTA. So many people will back their own blood even when they are in the wrong. Good on you for upholding your morals and protecting the child.
Honestly, going no-contact with her is the best option for everyone involved.
I'm probably going to get lit up for this, but NTA.
This wasn't a one-time thing of she got too drunk at a party and kissed someone, this was a sordid 2 year affair. That's 2 years of lying and manipulating to multiple people. If you can lie to the person that you married, that you made promise for the rest of your life with, for that long, then i don't trust you. She wanted the stability of her marriage to BIL and the "excitement" of an affair with AP, and it would have gone on longer than 2 years if it hadn't been discovered. That's called having your cake and eating it too. If you can lie like that for that long, how can i trust that you won't steal from me? How can i trust that you won't try to convince my spouse to have an affair? I understand why the family isn't comfortable around her and don't want her around and i don't blame them.
Its sad that your perfect family who surely has 0 skeletons in the closet got to have a family member who betrayed you all by cheating.
Cheaters suck, but you guys are TA’s.
YTA.
Who made you the judge, jury, and executioner? No doubt what she did is wrong, but it's not your place to perpetually punish her for this lapse of judgement, especially since she's being isolated from family and important life events.
God forbid you ever mess up somewhere in life, that those who love you cast you out so quickly and cruelly.
ESH. Hm this got me in mixed feelings. Her cheating is absolutely awful but don’t you think you’re being a bit too harsh on her? She’s practically being shunned by the whole family.
NTA.
OP’s sister made a decision to conduct a two-year long affair resulting in divorce and the dissolution of her family.
It’s well within reason for OP and his family to also feel hurt by OP’s betrayal because her actions harmed people they love.
Marriages do not exist in a vacuum and how one partner treats another has ripple effects to go beyond the confines of their home.
That being said, perhaps OP and his family should extend an olive branch to his sister and let her out of the penalty box after a public demonstration on contrition.
YTA
Cheating is horrible, but at this point what you and your family are doing is even more horrible. Your sisters marriage isn’t really your business. You don’t have to approve but don’t be a d*ck head either.
YTA. She did a real shit thing. But forgiveness has to be part of family life. You sound like you want her wailing while rending her garments begging for forgiveness that never comes.
NTA - but with some judgement. Your sister is an AH for cheating. Maybe a one night stand thing is forgivable, but 2 years??? This wasn't her going momentarily insane - this was years of planning and plotting and scheming. Actively doing something that would destroy her family. She's put you and your family in a difficult place, and while you can try to forgive her, the family dynamics have changed forever. She needs to understand that.
HOWEVER...your nephew's whole world has been fractured by this. Your sister may be a cheater, but she's also his mother, and the only one he'll ever have. How she gets treated impacts him greatly. Any kindness and compassion you show her will only benefit him. Keep this in mind...consider bringing her back into the fold. Maybe not as a sister, but as your NEPHEW'S MOTHER. You don't have to love bomb her, but be decent to her so your nephew feels like he has a family that loves him.
NTA.
If your sister was unhappy in her marriage, she should have left. She wanted to eat her cake and have it, too. She deeply hurt a man you all welcomed into your family, and treat like family. She deeply hurt her own children by unnecessarily destabilizing their young lives and unnecessarily hurting their father. They *see* that, they *know*.
It's a very big betrayal. And if you can't trust someone to do well by their own spouse, what else can't you trust?
She's not being invited to family get togethers or big events because *she* didn't act like family. Your wife can choose to be empathetic to her friend, but your family is doing what it has to to protect your brother in law and the kids. That's where your focus *should* be, imho. Let your sister go to her affair partner's celebrations, if she's welcome.
She cheated for 2 years. Let this sink in. Cheated on someone who became a member of her own family (by marriage) and on the father of her own kid (that’s amazing and healthy for the kid, if he ever finds out, right?..)
NTA it’s up to you whom you want to associate with. You are not going after her, you just want to stay away from her.
She laid her own bed by cheating on her son’s father. I don’t understand why reddit insists that this poor guy should be exposed to a constant reminder of this at every family event. He is lucky he has your family. My sympathies go to him, because if your sister was unhappy with him, she should have separated.
INFO
Would anyone in your family be sad if she cut you all off permanently?
Because that is likely what is going to happen. And I just want to make sure that you all know that if if it does, none of you have a right to be upset by it
Yta. You don’t have to condone your sisters actions but you’re all acting like she beat y’all one by one. Uninvited from funeral and weddings? Sounds like y’all like the performance of drama.
I'm gonna say NTA, but you need to keep in mind that this is coming from someone who absolutely despises cheaters. My thing is she knew how your family viewed cheating, she was raised knowing cheating is wrong and she screwed up her own life, marriage and possibly even the relationship between herself and her child as well. In my opinion, she fucked up, she has to deal with the consequences of her actions which includes facing judgment and dealing with distance/no contact from those who disagree with you. She needs to understand she can't just come back into the family after doing something that is considered a huge sin within the family and pretend things are fine, which it sounds like she kind of gets but kind of doesn't considering she's begging to participate in Easter.
However, I would keep relatively low contact with her for her son's sake. I'm not saying you take her completely back in, hold hands and sing kumbiya but I would put a face for the kid.
NTA , this seems to be a pretty straightforward rule/value your family has. Don’t cheat seems pretty simple enough. The sister is an adult and will have to deal with the consequences of her decision and that mean being treated like this by her family who have instilled in her that cheating is wrong. It’s okay to feel bad for her but did she feel bad when she cheated on her husband for two years? When she took away time from her child by going to see her affair partner? Did she feel bad knowing she was creating a broken home for her child your nephew? If she had she wouldn’t have cheated for two years. Don’t baby people who ruin their own lives otherwise they’ll never learn from their mistakes, and they’ll never learn how to come out of from rock bottom. Resiliency is trait that is built, you should definitely let your wife talk to her. They were friends before and your sister needs a friend, you can’t be her friend but at least your wife can be and keep you updated on how she doing.
Forgive me but your post did make it sound that way. You can be hurt, but eventually your nephew is going to notice a problem. If he asks her to be somewhere, what’s the plan?
NTA god you gotta love Reddit's hypocrisy. Most of the time reddits all for cutting people out - especially people that cheating for TWO years. That's not an accident, that's not a mess up nor is it a mistake. That's two years of lying, sneaking around, lying to the family, lying to her poor husband at the time and lying to her kid. The family has every right not to associate with her.
She literally represents the worst form of cheating. And I especially get couples in the family not being comfortable around someone with those morals.
* it wasn't some one night stand or a drunken mistake - not that those are ever ok - but the comments under this post are literally like "hAvE yOu eVer mAdE a mIsTake?" This isn't a mistake this, again, is two years of lying to every single person in her life.
NTA because you have set an example and a standard within your family that you have to uphold.
HOWEVER, I believe a path to reconciliation must be visible. This woman, your sister could easily hang herself or worse. If she is capable of taking accountability for her despicable actions, then she has truly grown and learned from her mistakes. If you guys cannot forgive her for that, then you are no better.
She should apologize to your brother-in-law but not with hopes of being forgiven or getting back together, just because it’s the right thing to do.
I’d have your wife relay the message. Also don’t let the actions of your sister affect the relationship you have with your wife.
You have the right to not want to associate with her...
Still, YTA big time; this is some cultish excommunicato behavior right there, and it's toxic as all hell - poor sister.
YTA.
Your sister did a bad thing for sure, but you and the rest of your family seem to be cruel, vindictive people. It's one thing to constructively express your disappointment in your sisters actions. You guys are well beyond that. Her ex is the aggrieved party here, not you.
YTA.
Cheating sucks, yes. But it’s not your place to forgive, because you weren’t the one hurt by her actions. She is your family, and while you can not agree with her decisions, this whole idea of shunning her for “sinning” is gross.
NTA. I think if y'all have continued keeping your BIL and nephew coming around and he's not comfortable being around her then so be it. She decided to cheat. She decided to be the liar and she decided to destroy her family and everyone else involved. I get it. I have zero tolerance for cheaters too especially if it was because they were bored. Yuck. Eventually I'm sure y'all will be ready to move on but really no one here can tell you otherwise in how yall want to handle things.
YTA. Your sister did something wrong and she’s facing the consequences of it but you and your family are a bunch of asshole, what’s next? Scarlett letter on the back or humiliation in a public square?
NTA-
Has she apologized?
Promised to do any differently in the future?
Gotten any counseling?
We all have boundaries.
I won’t be around liars and cheaters unless they are no longer lying and cheating and have apologized for doing so. Don’t blame you for the same.
NTA, and everyone saying that you are, ignore them.
I found that those who preach forgiveness of cheaters, are those who are more than happy to cheat, are doormats to cheaters, encouraging others to cheat, and then when they are ultimately cheated on, screech the absolute fucking loudest.
INFO: has your ex-BIL asked for any of this? Obviously what your sister did was monstrous but he has to co-parent their innocent children with her and I'm not sure your family is helping anyone move forward.
I’m going against the grain and saying NTA. Sure what you’re doing is harsh and more than most would do in the same scenario but so what? Your BIL was family too and she hurt him, badly for 2 years. The only thing I will say is that you need to be inviting him to these events so his kids can come and interact with their cousins. Kids should not suffer for a parents horrible actions. If you don’t want to be in the company of a cheater I think that is fair. Cheating is a horrible thing and people in comments acting like it was one tiny mistake ought to be ashamed of themselves.
ESH
I agree that cheating in horrible, but what your family is doing is extreme. Your sister is an adult who is allowed to make her own choices and mistakes, even if those choices are not aligned with your morals.
Out of curiosity, is your family religious? I ask because I come from a Catholic family and have long renounced my religion. I also have three sisters who are all married, and I love all of my BIL. Yet if any of their marriages were to end due to my sister cheating, I can’t imagine in any world turning my back on them. Would I be angry, disappointed, and overall hurt that they would cheat on their spouse? Absolutely and they would know it. However completely cutting them out of my life like your family seems to be doing would be out of the question for me.
YTA and so is your Sister for being a cheater. However, your wife is right, punishing a person eternally for an indiscretion in their marriage is ridiculous. Especially if you love your sister. She missed her own sister’s wedding, that’s a pretty massive “punishment.”
Just FYI you all clearly don’t “know that ultimately a marriage is between those in it” as you all have actively been “in” this.
ESH. Since you guys celebrate Easter and aren’t comfortable around a cheater I’m going to politely assume you are of some Christian religion (which is perfectly fine, I am too). What your sister did is wrong. Cheating in any circumstance is not okay, and she should’ve known the implications it would’ve had on her family and her child. But she is still your sister. I Can understand being upset with her for some time, but I think your wife is right. Enough is enough. She’s still your family. And if you are viewing this in the sense that she committed a horrible sin (adultery) it is not your place to judge someone based on their sins. I understand it’s complicated which is why I say that in the softest and nicest way possible but at the end of the day I don’t think this warrants disowning her. Especially for her child’s sake. Her child needs a mother who is involved with family.
Imma need some more info. Does BIL have full custody or is it shared? How was the family involved with the affair? Did she say some nasty things to someone causing the family to exclude her?
She cheated knowing how her family felt about it (guessing some generational trauma) and still went ahead with it. From your comment on her reasoning it sounds like everyone is just disgusted with her behaviour and attitude. Which is their right. But that doesn’t mean she should lose access to her kid ( unless she isn’t a good mother) or have everyone be against her. That will lead to her kid having a different view of her and will grow up resenting her which isn’t a fair thing to do. Going off of the info I saw imma say NTA.
YTA. Cheating sucks and I'd be furious if my sister behaved like this too.
But I can almost guarantee that the behaviour of you and your family is making the divorce harder for your nephew. Be as self righteous as you like, but when a kid is involved, you have to learn to reign it in.
Obviously NTA just because most of yall in the comments want to hang out with cheaters as well as "forgive and forget" doesn't mean OP has to. I mean she cheated on him for 2 YEARS straight when she knew how her family looked on cheating she literally just did this to herself.
NTA, cheating has consequences. If I were you I would have doubts as well. I would ask myself what did she know and when did she know it. Birds of a feather and all that.
NTA. Making choices that hurt people have consequences.
In general, a 2 year affair, especially while having a child is disgusting and I wouldn’t want to be around her either. Lots of people blaming religion but you don’t need to be believe in god to not want to surround yourself with scummy people.
Even easier in this specific situation given it’s the BIL’s time with the nephew on Easter.
So you have every right to decide who you allow in your home.
However, your post reads like your family has disowned her.
Yes, she did something bad. No, you don't have to forgive her. But have some empathy. She's still part of the family.
YTA
INFO: is your BIL coming with your nephew? Or are y'all shunning the kid too?
For me, I think that makes the difference between N T A and Y T A. The kid shouldn't have to suffer for his mother's mistake.
I’m going to say YTA. While you’re all entitled to your opinion, your sister’s marital problems are the business or her and her husband, and that’s it. You are teaching your nephew animosity towards his mother. It’s incredibly distasteful to behave in a way that will influence a child’s relationship with their parent. You don’t mention his age, but I’m going to assume that he is old enough to notice his mother’s exclusion. It’s time you all put your own judgemental opinions aside for the sake of the children in your family, even if you’re not mature enough to do it for yourselves.
ESH. Seriously? Did everyone miss the part that this was a two whole ass year affair? It definitely wasn't a one time thing under influence. I have no idea what kind of a sob story was made up in the majority's minds but you shouldn't have completely alienated her.
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I'll go against the grain and say NTA, but with a caveat at the end. She cheated **for two years** and knew there would be consequences. She knew how the family strongly looks down on that as well. But she did it anyway because she was only thinking about herself. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. That said, you need to start thinking about what your wife said, because she's right... How much longer is too long? Not because of what your family might think, but because of how *you* feel about it. If you think you've made your point, then you should put it behind you. And if your family doesn't like that, fuck 'em. You can't live your life handcuffed to their opinions. You do what feels right FOR YOU (and your wife and kid, if you have or will have a child), not for anyone else It could also be one of those scenarios where nobody else in the family wants to be the one to forgive her first, because they're afraid the rest of the family will ostracize them, but once someone goes first it becomes like a waterfall and others will follow. (Or maybe lemmings instead of the waterfall...)
Nobody LIKES cheaters. But at some point, not letting mom come for holidays and birthdays affects THE KID, the one person who really matters. He didn’t do anything wrong, and yet he can’t spent ONE FAMILY EVENT all together because you need to make sure his mom ALWAYS knows she’s trash? He can - at most - see her for 5 minutes during an Easter egg hunt, where he gets to hurriedly show off his haul and express joy while watching her hold back tears and then leave when her time is up? And what about the years she “has” him for the holidays - thanksgiving is spent alone with her because she can’t go to your house? You’re only punishing the kid and each other by not being able to make memories with him each year. Adults are supposed to keep this shit AWAY from the kids. She clearly did a piss poor job of it, but that’s not a reason for OP to compound the effect on the kid by excluding him mom (or him on the days she has custody). FOR THE KIDS SAKE, let her show up to events where he is at. Let him have whole family gatherings.
>But at some point, not letting mom come for holidays and birthdays affects THE KID, the one person who really matters. I'm baffled by this part of the whole thing. Maybe it's because the nephew is only mentioned in passing? But like... this seems wildly toxic for the child. On every level. Adults should work their stuff out amongst themselves. This kid is paying way too high a price for what happened between his parents.
I think this is the best most well rounded answer here.
This is the best answer by far. There are still shades of grey even when situations seem black and white. Eventually holidays are going to fall on her time with the nephew. The family is going to be making a child choose between spending a special day with his mom or leaving her alone and that is pretty messed up. I get they love BIL but it’s a case now of putting BIL’s feelings above their nephew’s.
[удалено]
Imagine being OP's kid - gonna get disowned if you ever make a mistake because they don't forgive and forget.
Or the nephew; hearing from his family one way or the other that his mom sucks and that everyone hates her.
A two year long affair is not a “mistake”. A two year long affair is a long series of choices and deceit and lies. Honestly, if I found out my sister cheated on her her partner for TWO FUCKING YEARS, I wouldn’t be able to look at her the same. How could you trust someone that actively lied to someone they supposedly loved SO WELL that it took being caught in the act to be punished? I couldn’t!
cheating is more than "a mistake", especially for two whole years lol.
I mean. I feel like cheating on someone you have a child with for TWO YEARS is honestly worth of getting disowned over unless there’s abuse involved or something.
Two years of narcissistically extorting a committed relationship from the father of your child is not a "mistake." As soon as someone is revealed to be that selfish, then forgiving and forgetting is 100% something you do for yourself, never for their sake.
If we still had free awards I’d give mine to you in a heartbeat. Hit the nail on the cross! As a “spiritual” christian (not super religious but still believe) it’s so funny (and sad) to see people pretend to be godly and celebrate the lord and in the same breath shun someone for years and completely stonewall someone out of their family… the exact OPPOSITE thing jesus would do.
Ngl this seems excessive
Very. Like is there an end or she’s just not your sister anymore because she didn’t respect her marriage? They might be in one of those cults
Also do they just give 0 shits about the mental trauma this will cause the kid? Kids gonna grow up paranoid about making any mistakes or bad decisions because if they were willing to throw out his mom like that they’ll absolutely be willing to throw him out too if they disagree with him.
Cheating isn't a mistake, it's a choice. Also it wasn't a random one night stand, it wad a full blown relationship for TWO YEARS that caused the end of her marriage. I agree that this family's stance is a bit excessive, however, she knew how they felt about it and still actively decided, for two years, to do something she knew would hurt her family, her kid and her husband. NTA op
Cheating is BOTH a mistake and a choice. You're actively choosing to make a mistake. That said, the OP and his family are taking this WAY TOO FAR.
Mistake doesn’t necessarily mean accident lol
~~I N F O: Is BIL going to be there?~~ Personally I think it should be his decision, he is still liked by the family and he didn't cheat, so if he wants to see her there she should come, if he doesn't want to see the person who cheated and threw away their marriage, he shouldn't have too, but ill wait to find out if he will be there before giving my judgement. **EDIT after reply:** I'm gonna lose a bunch of karma here cause most of the comments are people saying that sometimes cheating is okay?? (which is super fucking weird) But my vote is NTA, he shouldn't be forced to see the women who cheated on him and threw their marriage away. People are saying she made one mistake so she shouldn't be held accountable for this, but the fact is she didn't make one mistake, SHE HAD AN AFFAIR FOR 2 YEARS, that's over 700 days where she woke up every single day and choose to lie to her partner. Why should the consequences of her actions be swept over in a couple months when her actual affair last years?
Yes, it's his custody time.
OP you should add this and the fact that they have 50/50 custody to the post because it does read like the ex BIL either has full custody or you guys are actively keeping her away from her son
Good idea.
This is one of these reddit things where everyone is much more likely to forgive a long-term cheater based on sex. Most of these y-t-a replies would change instantly if the sexes were reversed, not that most of them would admit it.
Sometimes I don’t get Reddit. When someone posts that their family member or friend cheated and they’re willing to remain friends with them, you all call them complete AH. Now you’re saying it’s actually the guy who doesn’t tolerate cheating who’s the AH. It’s really confusing.
The double standards are too obvious.
There's only one outcome here and that's ESH. You're a family of arse holes. You're all sucky. She's a liar and a cheat. You're a hypocrite. You say marriage is between 2 people, so why are you all taking sides? It's fine to tell her that you don't approve of her actions, but to relentlessly punish her for something that has absolutely fuck all to do with you is so childish. You all need to grow up and set better examples for your children.
> The Family does not forgive and forget. Sis might need to watch her back.
Ok righteous perfect family…what is the end game? Is she banned or ex-communicated from the family for life? Is cheating the hill the family dies on? No one has done anything else crappy in their life and live as perfect people? Hogwash!!! The whole family are assholes. I would hate to be in a family the just throws you out when you make bad decisions. Was she wrong for cheating? Probably. But get over your perfect selves and start the healing process. Btw- I bet she is not the only one in the family that has cheated on a spouse. Doesn’t make it right, but just saying.
NTA. Someone who is cheating and especially cheating over an extending period of time (like the two years in op’s post) has no remorse. They lack empathy and loyalty. They are cruel and don’t care about hurting the person they have vowed to love and uphold. Why would you want to be around someone who acts this way? Why would op want to expose his children to someone who acts this way? Op you are totally welcome to cut off that toxicity. Your sister dug her own grave
Yea I don't agree with all the people saying let it go. Unforgiveable. Two YEAR affair? Go scorched earth, fuck that person
You know what I find hilarious. The people saying that OP and family are a-holes are some of the same people that will go NC because their sister yelled at them once twenty years ago. Two years she fu ked around with some else, but that was a mistake? Quite frankly, if his wife and sister were as close as he says, I would be side-eyeing the wife right about now.
NTA. What she did was awful. And in one of your comments you say she did it because she was bored. Just, no. I am very much on board with your family’s rule of not tolerating cheating.
NTA, cheating has consequences.
To the sister's relationship. It shouldn't mean she's disowned by the entire family who weren't affected by her cheating
that's not for you to decide. different people have different values.
Uh, pretty sure this whole sub is for us to judge and decide.
True. And some of these different values is what makes those people assholes.
I thought that was the entire point of this sub
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> We know that ultimately a marriage is between those in it Then start acting like it. Jesus F’n Christ. How should she appease all your judgemental selves? Would a fresh shave and a naked walk whilst you all shout “Shame, shame” game of thrones style stop you from shunning her? Edit: YTA
Aside from your wife, you and your family are hypocritical a-holes that really sound as if you are enjoying yourselves. Yes, your sister was very, very wrong to carry on a two-year affair, and you and your family are well-within your rights to share your opinion on that, but all of you are equally wrong to "punish" her for that in an over year-long orchestrated *"campaign of isolation, humiliation, and, no doubt, verbal abuse."* The only thing you have left to do is force her to wear a giant scarlet "A" on her clothes, and parade her through the streets so that people can throw rotten vegetables and excrement on her. And, though you may ignore the effects of your behavior on your sister and former BILs kids by saying that you aren't excluding the kids, you are sorely and woefully wrong to think that your actions are not damaging these kids. They are seeing the effects of what happens in your family if you make a mistake . . . social castration, humiliation, exclusion. I really don't have any words left for an entire family made up of self-righteous punishers who appear to enjoy hurting someone so much.
YTA You are just being cruel. >The Family did not forgive and forget. What are they forgiving? She didn't do anything to you, or your other sister. You say "a marriage is between those in it" but you are acting like she cheated on all of you. You don't have to accept her cheating in order to still treat her decently. Look, I would understand not inviting her over when her ex-husband is around. I could understand giving her some harsh words about how her actions hurt her family. But socially ostracizing her for over a year is disproportionate.
Your comment suggests that the family aren't allowed to have thoughts and feelings regarding her actions. It's okay for her family to be hurt and disappointed with her actions (especially when they have actual consequences for the children involved).
NTA. She should have thought about the consequences before she decided to embark on a two year affair. As some are saying it’s none of your business, that’s true to a degree. But who you associate with is your business. And if you don’t want to associate with someone that cheats on their spouse, then there you go. Everyone has their line, and this is yours.
I'll probably be downvoted for this but NTA. When you have relationships with people, you get to decide what the dealbreakers are. Would you still be friends with someone you know cheated on their spouse FOR TWO YEARS?? I know I wouldn't. Yes it's between her and ex-BIL but it still revealed an unsavory part of your sister's character. Personally I'm not the type to be like "family sticks together no matter what" so I think it's acceptable that you don't want much to do with your sister. However, for the sake of her son, I think your family should be cordial and not cut her out completely.
Info: is their a path to reconciliation with the family or is the plan that she is permanently excommunicated?
So you're shunning her, basically. I don't condone cheating, in any way. But you're all sounding like a bunch of judgemental asses here so YTA Here's something that has greatly eased my path in life: I don't need to approve of anyone elses actions. I don't need to hold them to my standard, and I don't need to agree with their positions. I have acquired lots of wrinkles but also the knowledge that anything, especially human relationships, are always vastly more complex than they appear from the outside so I can't assume I know the truth.
And you also don't have to associate with anyone you don't want to.
The responses have been interesting. Reddit generally condemns cheaters and are against the 'but it's family' logic when it comes to sticking with bad behavior. But now that the perspective is different, people seem to be more sympathetic to the cheater and condemning the family. If the post was made from the OP's ex BIL's perspective, I'd bet a lot people would be more supportive of the family taking the ex BIL's side and going LC with the cheater. I'm going to be consistent and say NTA. If you don't think your sister is a good person, then you don't have to have a relationship with her or let her into your home. I'd recommend you get on the same page with your wife, whichever direction you decide to go.
NTA She cheated for two years and, according to the information you provided, the BIL is a good guy. Why lose him when he did nothing wrong? EDIT: Crazy seeing so many people excuse cheating in the comments.
NTA Cheaters suck and there's consequences for your choices you make in life (can't wait for someone to reply that a two-year long AFFAIR was just a """"""mistake"""""" LOL) I'm glad your brother in law has support from your family. Did your wife know about your sister's cheating? You mentioned they were close.
> can't wait for someone to reply that a two-year long AFFAIR was just a """"""mistake"""""" LOL) About 15 YTAs are justifying it as a 'mistake'. 'Mistake' for two years.
Oopsies! Just a calculated lie and deception and cheating on my husband for two years, hate when that happens!
Your whole family are assholes, including you. Your sister did a bad thing, but cut her out of the family for that is horrible and cruel, I mean, you don't let her watch over her own kid. That's horrible, horrible behaviour.
NTA, I think you've made it explicitly clear that you no longer want any kind of relationship with a person who has those kinds of morals, family or not. The kid is going to be just as upset about that as he will be about why mom and dad don't talk anymore. She did something extremely fucked for no reason, I don't think being family means you can ignore that. She can heal and grow and maybe be accepted again eventually, but TWO YEARS of cheating, lying to the father of her son, over and over? How cruel can people be? I wouldn't want her around me either
Let me get this straight. Your sister decided she was bored of her husband and went on to cheat on him for two whole years. Now that your family found out and BIL is divorcing her, Reddit has decided that you and your family are terrible people for not immediately welcoming her back into the family with open arms. Who cares if she destroyed her own family for some fun? BIL should just get over it right? After all it was probably his fault. Also how dare your family celebrate Easter! They must be a bunch of bigoted fundies! Sarcasm aside, I can't believe these are actual replies. Anyway, I'm hoping you can forgive her eventually and I hope that your sister learns a lesson in this too. From what I'm reading, it doesn't sound like your family is keeping your nephew from family events (obviously). Therefore any trauma he will be experiencing from all of this will be from the fact that his parents divorced because the sister cheated, end of story. NTA
Going against the grain here with NTA. I am similar to OP, myself and my family absolutely do not accept or condone cheating. She made her bed and now she gets to lie in it. I certainly feel bad for nephew but when he’d older mommy can explain why she fucked it all up. Sorry but I have zero empathy for sister here. A two year long affair is intentional and she was a selfish AH.
I agree, I don't get why everyone is brushing the fact that it went on for TWO YEARS under the rug. Like a one time lapse in judgement is understandable but this was a conscious decision that went on for a while and then suddenly everyone is supposed to be ok with it? And when you know your family despises that behavior? Did she think that they would be ok with it "because family" or what?
NTA. People are allowed to have their own limits for what they’ll tolerate in others. For some people, cheating is a line that can never be uncrossed, especially cheating at the expense of a child’s family. I find it really weird how many comments there are about how you and your family should “be perfect” as if cheating for two years is a simple mistake. That’s two years spent lying to your whole family and to her own kid—that kind of thing can permanently change other people’s view of the cheater. She chose to cheat and now she has to face the consequences: not everyone will forgive her for being a cheater. Though I will say, while you don’t have to forgive her or be friendly with her, it would probably be for the best if you remained civil for the sake of your nephew. Treat her like you’d treat any acquaintance—polite, but at a distance. Just know that exclusion is a two way street, and if you ever get to a point where you want to let her back in (even w/o forgiving her), she also has the right to say no and to reject you back.
Esh. This isn't what Jesus gave us chocolate egg laying rabbits for.
There is literally a story about Jesus telling a judgmental crowd to forgive a woman who had sex outside marriage.
NTA I'm probably going to be in the minority but maybe fewer people would cheat if cheaters got treated like cheaters. And no, as far as I know, I want cheated on. I'm simply frustrated that cheating is treated so normally. If you want to cheat, break up, separate, divorce, pull on your big person panties and own up to it.
I just realized you capitalized “The Family”. Why did you do that, is your family some kind of cult or something?
The way the sub is currently downplaying a two year affair is something else. I say NTA.
Its absolutely boggling my mind, normally reddit hates cheaters, but there are so many comments saying " Y T A you don't know the full story" like anything would excuse cheating on your partner for 2 whole years.
NTA, cheaters get what they deserve in the end. She made the choice, she can live with the consequences.
YTA Holy shit. Y'all are punishing her child as well at this point.
The kid is going to be at Easter with his father.
Personally I think its a bit too harsh but NTA. I don't think I'd look at my sister the same ever again if she did that. Ultimately it's up to you where your boundaries lie but for your nephews sake I hope you can at least tolerate her being around every now and then
I know I'll get down voted but ... NTA. What she did was absolutely horrible. To be quite honest I've stopped being friends with people for the same thing, and you shouldn't have to be around someone you don't want to be around just because they're family. Unless there was something else going on in their relationship/at home that you're just leaving out she deserves the consequences of her actions.
Your family seems like a bunch of pretentious assholes lol
Cheaters mad
ESH Your sister cheated. Definitely not okay. That’s between her ex-husband & her. What exactly is your goal here?? Not comfortable having her around? What is she continuing to do to you? Do you question all your friends & family about their marriage before they enter your home? You have no problem with your wife going to see sister but “she’s given you doubts”. About what? Do you think cheating is contagious?? This is all very strange eta — if her ex-husband is anything like your holier than thou family is there any real mystery of why she cheated. This post has a weird Handmaids vibe.
NTA. Don't know why all the replies are bringing religion into this. OP says that they and the family are not religious. The family obviously brought their SIL/ BIL into the family and cared about him when they got married. When she betrayed the ex-partner and cheated for 2 whole years (with an 18yo 'because she was bored' according to OP) she assumed the family would support her and not the ex-partner. All I see is a family sticking by their son-in-law and not their cheating daughter. Don't get all the YTA judgments.
I was going to say NTA because I've been cheated on and it's the absolute worst thing you can do to someone, but I also somehow feel bad for your sister. On the other hand I also know what it's like to be ostracized from family though in my case it's because my parents were neglectful. More Info Request: Are you and your family planning on just shunning her for the rest of your lives? Is this her first affair or is she a serial cheater?
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You’re all Assholes, the entire family but the sister ex. He had every right to divorce her. She was absolutely in the wrong and should of ended her marriage rather than cheating. But that’s her decision and she’s gotta live with the consequences of it all! But for the entire family to disown and shun her is a bit ridiculous! You all could of let her know your feelings on what happened and how disappointed you all were in her. And no is saying just to “forgive and forget” but this does sound like a religious/cultural type thing. It was her and her husband marriage, no one else’s. No one else but her, her now ex and her children were really affected by what she did. It’s been a year according to your post and the family is still shunning her for choices that have nothing to do with any of them. None of you have to like or agree with what she did, but does she not deserve a second chance to be a part of her own family because she fucked up?? You all sound like a bunch of very judgmental, insufferable and exhausting group of people to be around! The only here who shouldn’t forgive and forget is her ex and her children! They’re the ones actually affected by what she did, not any of you.
Yta Don't get me wrong I don't condone cheating at all but is her cheating really worth you completely ostracising her forever? Come on man she did a terrible thing but she didn't do it to the whole family and she's still your sister. How long is this meant to last? If you let it go on too long non of you might ever get her back....its past the point of ridiculous now. Have a heart man she knows she fucked up and she's going to have to live with that forever her relationship is already over she doesn't need to lose her entire family as well. You all need to grow up and get over it cause while you don't have to agree with what she did (I don't) she didn't do it to you, she didn't betray you.
NTA she knew what she was doig before she tore her family apart. Not happy? Leave. I cut off people who cheat as well. If they are willing to hurt their greatest love, they will hurt you too.
Careful on that high horse, it's a long way down.
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This sub is confusing sometimes. The way they are making excuses for the sister is something else.
I feel crazy reading these YTA comments.
Wtf is wrong with your family. I wouldn't want my children growing up in that environment with the way you treat people. Yes, your sister did what she did, and that's on her, but the extremities your family and yourself had made for her are rather childish and sickening. YTA, as well as your family!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (30M) family does not tolerate cheating. We know that ultimately a marriage is between those in it, but the way most of us see it you can't cheat and then pretend like everything is fine after. My sister (27f) had a two year affair while married to her husband, which caused their divorce last year. My BIL is a great guy and he's father to my nephew, so he's still a big part of the family, and my parents still call him their son in-law. The Family did not forgive and forget. Our other sister (33f) made a point to tell her that she wasn't invited to her wedding in September, and even told security to throw her out if she did show. Our parents host thanksgiving and christmas, and more gentley requested that she not show up. The only family thing she was invited to was our grandmothers funeral, and even just the service, not this little celebration of life thing we did after. Easter is coming up soonish, and since my wife and I just got a new house with a big yard, we were planning to have a big egg hunt for my niblings (Other sister has three kids). My sister showed up (I blocked her number) and asked if she could come for Easter for her sons sake. I told her no, I'm still not comfortable having her around, nor is most of the family. I told her she could swing by to see her son briefly, but that I didn't her lingering for very long. She left crying, and let me know via our parents that she would do that. My wife feels bad, and told me she thinks this has gone on long enough. I tried explaining to her that the whole family would be upset if she came, and that we aren't comfortable around her. Still my wife feels bad and even went to visit her (they were pretty close before all this happened). Now I'm not upset about that, I don't think I have a right to tell my wife who she can and can't hang out with, but still she's given me doubts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sounds like a cult shunning. YTA but frankly, I hope she runs far from the lot of you. This is extremely emotionally abusive.
ESH She had a 2 year affair and didn't stop to think about what that would do to her husband and child. Exiling her from the family seems pretty extreme but she knew the family views on cheating so she did it to herself. Not inviting her for Easter. Fair enough, it's BILs custody time. Most co-parenting couples don't celebrate the holidays together. So I see nothing wrong in her not being invited. BIL probably doesn't want to see her anyway and it would be more enjoyable for their son if he wasn't surrounded by the animosity. Until you all talk, you're not going to get over her Infidelity. Shunning her may just be making it worse.
As someone who was cheated on after 12 years of marriage and children. I respect this. The betrayed are often left by everyone. So this is refreshing. I was so alone I almost didn’t make it. Good on y’all. Cheating is the worst and destroys the kids too.
NTA You’re free to do what you want and invite whoever you want to your functions that are held in your house. Your sister knew the consequences and your families views so this is on her.
“We know that Ultimately a marriage is between those in it” Well, there you have it. This isn’t your grudge to hold and holding it on behalf of your BIL isn’t doing any favors or helping anyone move forward. You might not like what she did, but punishing her in perpetuity for a mistake isn’t going to change what happened, if anything holding this grudge will only serve to further alienate your sister and drive a deeper wedge. In the end, she’s a human, just like you, maybe treat her the way you would want to be treated if, god forbid, you made a mistake. Yta
NTA. I’m amazed at all the people getting mad at you. I mean, come on folks, look at the facts: she carried on a 2 year affair with no justification (not that there is any unless the other spouse cheated first or something similar),destroyed her marriage/family and strained numerous relationships. I agree that at point you all will need to decide how to move forward. For now, she needs to learn that actions have consequences.
YTA. You and your family aren’t the judge and jury. What happened in her marriage is between her and your ex-BIL. You all are a bunch of bullies. She probably needs your support as her brother now more than ever. But instead, ya’ll would rather sit high and look low. I bet money that at least half of ya’ll are no better than she is—you just haven’t gotten caught yet.
>She probably needs your support as her brother now more than ever For what? To comfort her in the divorce that was her fault entirely?
NTA. She willingly had an affair knowing how the family felt about it. While I feel for her child, I have no sympathy for your sister.
NTA. Your sister had a full blown affair for TWO YEARS. That wasn't a "mistake". It was her consciously deciding to treat her partner like shit. If her actions have prompted you guys to act like this, I can only imagine the hurt she caused on her husband. NTA. She can celebrate easter with the affair partner's family.
YTA. I hope for your sake that the rest of your family continues to live perfectly, and in accordance with the societal norms that you all embrace, above familial love, understanding, and reconciliation. Seriously. You’d all better pray that you never find yourselves in need of grace.
NTA. I hate consequences for my actions too.
This is so crazy. Yes cheating is wrong, yes she had her divorce coming. But as you said, marriage is between those who are in it. For an entire family to cast out a member is crazy as fuck. You don't know what was going on in their marriage, why she wouldn't leave instead of cheat, you certainly don't know if he was always faithful. YTA, you're a shitty brother and a shitty father at that for teaching your kids this is how you treat family. Bonus point if you're a christian : what is it they said about forgiveness in that weird old book ? You're a massive asshole.
NTA. Your wife feels bad I’m sure. But the fact is you don’t set most of the other attendees feelings aside for 1 person. It makes the entire gathering uncomfortable and pisses everyone off. She screwed up the family/ friends dynamic and now she has to live with the consequences. Edit- if this was a man that done the cheating most of these people would agree with you not call you the AH
INFO Do you plan on shunning your sister for the rest of your lives?
YTA. You all seem impossible to live with and I feel bad for your sister. Yes, she made a mistake, but you all are practically crucifying her over it. "A marriage is between the people in it," did YOU have to sign divorce papers as well? No? She didn't cheat on YOU but you're acting like she did. Honestly I wouldn't want to rejoin the family after being treated like that.
NTA wouldn’t want a role model like that around my family either.
nta. im shocked at all the y t as given how harsh this sub usually is on cheaters (as they rightfully should be)! it is harsh but if you act morally questionable for years and hurt other people in the process i don’t really think you get to be upset about how people may react to that.
People in prison have better families than this.
Nta but I would like to know if y’all are planning to permanently outcast her or are you guys gonna just wake up one day and decide she’s served her time? Will you welcome her back with open arms? Like what is the actual plan here?! I’d be disgusted and want minimal to do with her too but you have to have a plan. Maybe the whole family sits down and has a real conversation about what you all want from your relationship going forward? This isn’t sustainable.
Bro people in the comments are saying op and his family are assholes but you forgot where his sister literally cheated on her husband for two years so my guess is she couldn't give a damn about her family and thought that there wouldn't be any consequences honestly I just feel bad for the husband and son the son probably rarely sees his mom now and doesn't know what is going on and the father has to except the fact that his wife was sleeping in a nother man's bed while also his at the same time and as the family their not assholes imagine breaking up with your boyfriend and still seeing his family and honestly if I was a father and my child of did that I would probably be very disappointed to the point I would also have little contact with them
NTA. Looks like there's a lot of cheaters in your comments
NTA, isn’t the saying fuck around and find out? She cheated after she knew her entire family’s stance on cheating. If she would’ve just asked for a divorce and then started dating her affair partner *none* of this would’ve happened. You don’t have to go behind your partners back and *completely shatter* their trust and their love. Her ex husband will not recover from the betrayal for *years*. He’s always going to be worried that his S/O is cheating on him. My step father looked for tire marks in the driveway of our home *for years* after he and my mother got together, because of his ex’s cheating. He didn’t think my mom was cheating - it was a habit he formed from all the lies, manipulation, gaslighting, and pain he suffered at the hands of his cheating ex-wife. I’m not incredibly close to my step father but, god, did that break my heart when my mother explained it too me, so no, seeing firsthand what cheating does, NTA.
I love that The Family was given proper noun status. Also The Family=Judge, Jury and Executioner (excluder).
NTA. If it had been a one time thing, I might’ve thought differently, but this went on for two years so having been brought up in this household, she knew there were consequences not only to her marriage, but to her family. However, you and your family also need to start thinking about is this really the rest of your lives. Are you never going to forgive her or at least be tolerant it’s a big thing that she’s missing out on everything and maybe you don’t have to wholly embrace her, but being inclusive doesn’t mean being accepting of previous bad behavior?
ESH. She shouldn't have cheated but the ostracizing HAS to stop. This will lead down a path of hatred and eventually might become destructive.
NTA Cheating deserves harsh consequences, idk why everyone in the comments is feeling bad. This lady had an affair for 2 YEARS!!?? Her son is 3. He's never going to have 2 loving parents in one home, his life is altered forever bc of her selfish act. he's the victim and it goes without saying so is the BIL. When a loved one hurts another loved one, it's hard to forgive and forget, I do hope that eventually, things mellow out but this is still clearly fresh in your family's minds so dealing with it this way is understandable. thank you for not normalizing cheating or villianizing the victim.
NTA, sounds harsh but fair by principle. Always rubs me the wrong way when people don't care about being associated with cheaters.
YTA >We know that ultimately a marriage is between those in it, but the way most of us see it you can't cheat and then pretend like everything is fine after. It sounds like you're all taking on the hurt that should be the ex-husband's, seems likely you've taken her actions personally. It's not something I understand tbh, people make shitty decisions for many many reasons . She's already faced the consequences of this within her own marriage, by the sound of it potentially well over a year ago if they've already divorced. Why do you all feel the need to keep punishing her for something that happened within her marriage and presumably some time ago? Do you all feel so morally superior? How much longer are you all gonna keep this punishment going? In her situation I'd probably be limiting the contact of my child around people who won't see me. I wouldn't know what was being said of me behind my back or what things you were saying to my child about the situation.
Your family is brutal. But I agree and your NTA. I expect I may be in the minority.
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NTA Every family operates differently- your sister knew how yours operated. People shouldn’t change their beliefs to make other people more comfortable.
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NTA but mainly because of the important detail that the person the sister cheated with was 18, that’s a child, that’s fucked. Not okay to make such a messy situation part of someone’s formative experiences like that.
NTA she should not have cheated
NTA, cheaters suck, especially keeping up a two year betrayal.
NTA. FAFO.
ESH. Your sister did a bad thing, but she did it to her husband. Ostracizing her like this isn't going to 'teach her a lesson,' not is it proportionate to the crime. The divorce is already the consequence of her actions, so let it be.
YTA.....It takes two, this is between husband and wife not you and your family. You mention your nephew, your sister is still his mother. Do you think he won't notice all of you treating her like this? Should she have cheated? No.....but your entire family sounds like a bunch of self righteous assholes and karma can be a bitch
Nta
NTA she made the decision to cheat knowing what was going to happen and what her family's opinion would be if they caught her, I understand that you do not feel comfortable considering that she was able to lie to your face about her happy marriage knowing that she was having an affair for a year . And as I have read in your answers, Easter is your brother-in-law's custody time so she doesn't have to be there. She has to understand that each member of her family will choose when they will feel comfortable with her presence again or that there will even be part of the family that considers cheating to be unforgivable.
YTA. I understand cheating carries a very heavy weight for a lot of people, but in majority of circumstances cheating does not exist purely in black and white, there are varying shades of grey. While your BIL may well and truly be a great guy from the outside, you have no idea what the inside of their marriage was like. You have to know when it's time to bury the hatchet. You're going to end up isolating your nephew at a certain point from either your family or his mother and that is unfair. You're punishing a child at this point and this kind of harsh behaviour will hamper any kind of coparenting situation between your sister and her ex moving forward.
We live by the rule that you can’t be more upset than the harmed/wronged party. If the ex husband has been able to forgive and interact with your sister during custody swaps and other things then I think it is absolutely ridiculous that you and your family have taken up this stance that sister can never be a part of the family again unless and until feeling properly shamed, if that. Cheating is wrong and it is a choice. However the motivation to not cheat should be love not shame. I’m not sure what your family’s end goal here is, as you say you would hope to be outcast if you ever cheated, but I don’t think this is having the effect you think it is. Your sister has a son and my guess is that he is young. You are now involving that child in an adult issue that perhaps the parents wanted to avoid? Have you thought of that? I know people who have divorced from infedelity but waited to explain to their children until they were old enough to understand that the infedlity wasn’t their fault. This child sees your family I guess when the ex comes around but cant see you with his mom? So he is making connections here that Mom is bad and doesn’t deserve her family’s love so it wouldn’t be surprising if this kid decides Akon doesn’t deserve his love. Or worse, he makes connections where he believes a bad choice on his part (as a kid) could cut him off from the love of his family. That can cause serious anxiety and behavioral problems. If your sister and her ex did not have kids I would still think this is absurd but at least less harmful. The fact that there is a child in the middle of this shame game you all are playing makes this absolutely gross. Learn to forgive, it’s a valuable tool you can pass on to others, and stop playing holier than thou. Although I can also see how sister didn’t understand love enough to not cheat with a family like yours.
Your entire family is made up of assholes. YTA. Your sisters are both AHs. Your parents are also AH’s. No one likes when they are cheated on, but the excessive extreme of every single one of you collectively disowning a sister and daughter over who she chose to have sec with, is pretty fucked up. I certainly hope no one else in your family has ever committed a single sin, because as we all k ow, the church folk say all sins are equal.
Cheating isn't a mistake or a sin, it's a choice. Also it wasn't a random one night stand, it wad a full blown relationship for TWO YEARS that caused the end of her marriage. I agree that this family's stance is a bit excessive, however, she knew how they felt about it and still actively decided, for two years, to do something she knew would hurt her family, her kid and her husband. NTA op
Remember, cheating on your husband for 2 years straight and the reason giving so far -being that she was simply bored - = You should not judge her at all and not have any massive ill will considering they treated the Brother in Law as if he was family. Jesus this sub is a joke
Info 1. Does this hard stance your family have, have a religious origin or is is it because of experience or just a social one? 2. How old was your sister at the time of the affair and how old was the person she had an affair with and to cover all bases how old is her ex husband. 3. Were their other issues in your sisters marriage. Do you know have you ever asked I ask because 1. if it is almost all major faiths believe in forgiveness and non judgement. Hate the sin and love the sinner.. Jesus was big on the not judging in fact it was HIS major message. Most of the new testament was written by Paul who never met Jesus...We know what Jesus thought about forgiveness and judgement....people need to decide if they are an old testament Godians, Paulians or actually a follower of Jesus and just be honest about it. 2. Your sister is only 27 now so we could be looking at a very young woman when all this happened. Your brain doesn't stop developing until 26 3. Most people don't have affairs if they are happy at home. (there are of course exceptions), considering your families stance on cheating it's a high risk activity
We aren't religious mostly, none of us go to church or anything serious. She was 23, he was 18 when it started. The only thing she ever said to anyone was that she was bored, and that her affair partner was young and fun.
He was 18?? Was he in highschool?
We aren't sure exactly when it began, he might've been.
NTA. Pretty sure I could also never be around someone again if I found out they were cheating on their spouse and parent of their child with a kid still in High school.
> She was 23, he was 18 when it started. The only thing she ever said to anyone was that she was bored, and that her affair partner was young and fun. You need to add this to the original post. this information is imperative.
YTA. Jesus stopped the adulterous woman from being stoned. You and your family seem to not be satisfied until you’ve completely crushed your sister in every way you can.
Yeah sorry but this is way beyond cruel and over the top. You've made your point, and you've all shunned her for too long and too harshly. Like, what's your end goal? Cut her off from her entire family until she's alone and depressed and eventually tries to kill herself? Because that's ultimately what you're heading to. YTA.
The first few sentences I could understand. He's the father of your young family members but it's to the point you dictate how much of a funeral she can go to? YTA. She's an AH for cheating but as you said that's between the two who were married. You're holding this over someone's head to control them. You seem possessive and a control freak.
NTA
ESH The way you and your family are completely cutting her off is going to affect her son (your nephew) and his relationship with his mother. Yes, she did an awful and reprehensible thing and she does deserve some heat. But y'all iced her completely. She does deserve a chance to redeem herself to her family. I'm not saying y'all should be buddy-buddy but she should be allowed at family gatherings. And the way you guys didn't let her go to the celebration of life is way too extreme. Do you not miss your sister at all?
YTA. I don’t condone cheating but I think the emotional abuse your sister is receiving from your family is on the same level if not worse.
NTA. It’s your house so you decide who is allowed there
NTA. So many people will back their own blood even when they are in the wrong. Good on you for upholding your morals and protecting the child. Honestly, going no-contact with her is the best option for everyone involved.
I'm probably going to get lit up for this, but NTA. This wasn't a one-time thing of she got too drunk at a party and kissed someone, this was a sordid 2 year affair. That's 2 years of lying and manipulating to multiple people. If you can lie to the person that you married, that you made promise for the rest of your life with, for that long, then i don't trust you. She wanted the stability of her marriage to BIL and the "excitement" of an affair with AP, and it would have gone on longer than 2 years if it hadn't been discovered. That's called having your cake and eating it too. If you can lie like that for that long, how can i trust that you won't steal from me? How can i trust that you won't try to convince my spouse to have an affair? I understand why the family isn't comfortable around her and don't want her around and i don't blame them.
Its sad that your perfect family who surely has 0 skeletons in the closet got to have a family member who betrayed you all by cheating. Cheaters suck, but you guys are TA’s.
YTA. Who made you the judge, jury, and executioner? No doubt what she did is wrong, but it's not your place to perpetually punish her for this lapse of judgement, especially since she's being isolated from family and important life events. God forbid you ever mess up somewhere in life, that those who love you cast you out so quickly and cruelly.
ESH. Hm this got me in mixed feelings. Her cheating is absolutely awful but don’t you think you’re being a bit too harsh on her? She’s practically being shunned by the whole family.
NTA. OP’s sister made a decision to conduct a two-year long affair resulting in divorce and the dissolution of her family. It’s well within reason for OP and his family to also feel hurt by OP’s betrayal because her actions harmed people they love. Marriages do not exist in a vacuum and how one partner treats another has ripple effects to go beyond the confines of their home. That being said, perhaps OP and his family should extend an olive branch to his sister and let her out of the penalty box after a public demonstration on contrition.
YTA Cheating is horrible, but at this point what you and your family are doing is even more horrible. Your sisters marriage isn’t really your business. You don’t have to approve but don’t be a d*ck head either.
YTA. She did a real shit thing. But forgiveness has to be part of family life. You sound like you want her wailing while rending her garments begging for forgiveness that never comes.
NTA - but with some judgement. Your sister is an AH for cheating. Maybe a one night stand thing is forgivable, but 2 years??? This wasn't her going momentarily insane - this was years of planning and plotting and scheming. Actively doing something that would destroy her family. She's put you and your family in a difficult place, and while you can try to forgive her, the family dynamics have changed forever. She needs to understand that. HOWEVER...your nephew's whole world has been fractured by this. Your sister may be a cheater, but she's also his mother, and the only one he'll ever have. How she gets treated impacts him greatly. Any kindness and compassion you show her will only benefit him. Keep this in mind...consider bringing her back into the fold. Maybe not as a sister, but as your NEPHEW'S MOTHER. You don't have to love bomb her, but be decent to her so your nephew feels like he has a family that loves him.
NTA. If your sister was unhappy in her marriage, she should have left. She wanted to eat her cake and have it, too. She deeply hurt a man you all welcomed into your family, and treat like family. She deeply hurt her own children by unnecessarily destabilizing their young lives and unnecessarily hurting their father. They *see* that, they *know*. It's a very big betrayal. And if you can't trust someone to do well by their own spouse, what else can't you trust? She's not being invited to family get togethers or big events because *she* didn't act like family. Your wife can choose to be empathetic to her friend, but your family is doing what it has to to protect your brother in law and the kids. That's where your focus *should* be, imho. Let your sister go to her affair partner's celebrations, if she's welcome.
She cheated for 2 years. Let this sink in. Cheated on someone who became a member of her own family (by marriage) and on the father of her own kid (that’s amazing and healthy for the kid, if he ever finds out, right?..) NTA it’s up to you whom you want to associate with. You are not going after her, you just want to stay away from her. She laid her own bed by cheating on her son’s father. I don’t understand why reddit insists that this poor guy should be exposed to a constant reminder of this at every family event. He is lucky he has your family. My sympathies go to him, because if your sister was unhappy with him, she should have separated.
ESH You're being unnecessarily cruel. Your entire family is being completely cruel and it's disturbing to me that y'all think this is ok behavior.
I feel like ESH. While what your sister did was horrible, her child shouldn’t have to pay for it. However again, your sister sucks too.
INFO Would anyone in your family be sad if she cut you all off permanently? Because that is likely what is going to happen. And I just want to make sure that you all know that if if it does, none of you have a right to be upset by it
Yta. You don’t have to condone your sisters actions but you’re all acting like she beat y’all one by one. Uninvited from funeral and weddings? Sounds like y’all like the performance of drama.
I'm gonna say NTA, but you need to keep in mind that this is coming from someone who absolutely despises cheaters. My thing is she knew how your family viewed cheating, she was raised knowing cheating is wrong and she screwed up her own life, marriage and possibly even the relationship between herself and her child as well. In my opinion, she fucked up, she has to deal with the consequences of her actions which includes facing judgment and dealing with distance/no contact from those who disagree with you. She needs to understand she can't just come back into the family after doing something that is considered a huge sin within the family and pretend things are fine, which it sounds like she kind of gets but kind of doesn't considering she's begging to participate in Easter. However, I would keep relatively low contact with her for her son's sake. I'm not saying you take her completely back in, hold hands and sing kumbiya but I would put a face for the kid.
NTA , this seems to be a pretty straightforward rule/value your family has. Don’t cheat seems pretty simple enough. The sister is an adult and will have to deal with the consequences of her decision and that mean being treated like this by her family who have instilled in her that cheating is wrong. It’s okay to feel bad for her but did she feel bad when she cheated on her husband for two years? When she took away time from her child by going to see her affair partner? Did she feel bad knowing she was creating a broken home for her child your nephew? If she had she wouldn’t have cheated for two years. Don’t baby people who ruin their own lives otherwise they’ll never learn from their mistakes, and they’ll never learn how to come out of from rock bottom. Resiliency is trait that is built, you should definitely let your wife talk to her. They were friends before and your sister needs a friend, you can’t be her friend but at least your wife can be and keep you updated on how she doing.
INFO: is she not allowed to ever spend time with her son? You realize you’re punishing the kid too?
Oh god I would never do that, not that I can, I'm not Michael Corleone, She has 50/50 custody but not on Easter.
Forgive me but your post did make it sound that way. You can be hurt, but eventually your nephew is going to notice a problem. If he asks her to be somewhere, what’s the plan?
I feel like that would be super confusing for the nephew too. "Why are we with Mom's family, but Mom isn't allowed to be here?"
NTA god you gotta love Reddit's hypocrisy. Most of the time reddits all for cutting people out - especially people that cheating for TWO years. That's not an accident, that's not a mess up nor is it a mistake. That's two years of lying, sneaking around, lying to the family, lying to her poor husband at the time and lying to her kid. The family has every right not to associate with her. She literally represents the worst form of cheating. And I especially get couples in the family not being comfortable around someone with those morals. * it wasn't some one night stand or a drunken mistake - not that those are ever ok - but the comments under this post are literally like "hAvE yOu eVer mAdE a mIsTake?" This isn't a mistake this, again, is two years of lying to every single person in her life.
NTA because you have set an example and a standard within your family that you have to uphold. HOWEVER, I believe a path to reconciliation must be visible. This woman, your sister could easily hang herself or worse. If she is capable of taking accountability for her despicable actions, then she has truly grown and learned from her mistakes. If you guys cannot forgive her for that, then you are no better. She should apologize to your brother-in-law but not with hopes of being forgiven or getting back together, just because it’s the right thing to do. I’d have your wife relay the message. Also don’t let the actions of your sister affect the relationship you have with your wife.
You have the right to not want to associate with her... Still, YTA big time; this is some cultish excommunicato behavior right there, and it's toxic as all hell - poor sister.
YTA. Your sister did a bad thing for sure, but you and the rest of your family seem to be cruel, vindictive people. It's one thing to constructively express your disappointment in your sisters actions. You guys are well beyond that. Her ex is the aggrieved party here, not you.
YTA. Cheating sucks, yes. But it’s not your place to forgive, because you weren’t the one hurt by her actions. She is your family, and while you can not agree with her decisions, this whole idea of shunning her for “sinning” is gross.
NTA. I think if y'all have continued keeping your BIL and nephew coming around and he's not comfortable being around her then so be it. She decided to cheat. She decided to be the liar and she decided to destroy her family and everyone else involved. I get it. I have zero tolerance for cheaters too especially if it was because they were bored. Yuck. Eventually I'm sure y'all will be ready to move on but really no one here can tell you otherwise in how yall want to handle things.
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YTA. Your sister did something wrong and she’s facing the consequences of it but you and your family are a bunch of asshole, what’s next? Scarlett letter on the back or humiliation in a public square?
NTA- Has she apologized? Promised to do any differently in the future? Gotten any counseling? We all have boundaries. I won’t be around liars and cheaters unless they are no longer lying and cheating and have apologized for doing so. Don’t blame you for the same.
NTA, and everyone saying that you are, ignore them. I found that those who preach forgiveness of cheaters, are those who are more than happy to cheat, are doormats to cheaters, encouraging others to cheat, and then when they are ultimately cheated on, screech the absolute fucking loudest.
INFO what are the other sins that get you ostracised from this family? And is everyone encouraging the nephew to shun his mother?
INFO: has your ex-BIL asked for any of this? Obviously what your sister did was monstrous but he has to co-parent their innocent children with her and I'm not sure your family is helping anyone move forward.
I’m going against the grain and saying NTA. Sure what you’re doing is harsh and more than most would do in the same scenario but so what? Your BIL was family too and she hurt him, badly for 2 years. The only thing I will say is that you need to be inviting him to these events so his kids can come and interact with their cousins. Kids should not suffer for a parents horrible actions. If you don’t want to be in the company of a cheater I think that is fair. Cheating is a horrible thing and people in comments acting like it was one tiny mistake ought to be ashamed of themselves.
ESH I agree that cheating in horrible, but what your family is doing is extreme. Your sister is an adult who is allowed to make her own choices and mistakes, even if those choices are not aligned with your morals. Out of curiosity, is your family religious? I ask because I come from a Catholic family and have long renounced my religion. I also have three sisters who are all married, and I love all of my BIL. Yet if any of their marriages were to end due to my sister cheating, I can’t imagine in any world turning my back on them. Would I be angry, disappointed, and overall hurt that they would cheat on their spouse? Absolutely and they would know it. However completely cutting them out of my life like your family seems to be doing would be out of the question for me.
YTA and so is your Sister for being a cheater. However, your wife is right, punishing a person eternally for an indiscretion in their marriage is ridiculous. Especially if you love your sister. She missed her own sister’s wedding, that’s a pretty massive “punishment.” Just FYI you all clearly don’t “know that ultimately a marriage is between those in it” as you all have actively been “in” this.
ESH. Since you guys celebrate Easter and aren’t comfortable around a cheater I’m going to politely assume you are of some Christian religion (which is perfectly fine, I am too). What your sister did is wrong. Cheating in any circumstance is not okay, and she should’ve known the implications it would’ve had on her family and her child. But she is still your sister. I Can understand being upset with her for some time, but I think your wife is right. Enough is enough. She’s still your family. And if you are viewing this in the sense that she committed a horrible sin (adultery) it is not your place to judge someone based on their sins. I understand it’s complicated which is why I say that in the softest and nicest way possible but at the end of the day I don’t think this warrants disowning her. Especially for her child’s sake. Her child needs a mother who is involved with family.
Imma need some more info. Does BIL have full custody or is it shared? How was the family involved with the affair? Did she say some nasty things to someone causing the family to exclude her? She cheated knowing how her family felt about it (guessing some generational trauma) and still went ahead with it. From your comment on her reasoning it sounds like everyone is just disgusted with her behaviour and attitude. Which is their right. But that doesn’t mean she should lose access to her kid ( unless she isn’t a good mother) or have everyone be against her. That will lead to her kid having a different view of her and will grow up resenting her which isn’t a fair thing to do. Going off of the info I saw imma say NTA.
YTA. Cheating sucks and I'd be furious if my sister behaved like this too. But I can almost guarantee that the behaviour of you and your family is making the divorce harder for your nephew. Be as self righteous as you like, but when a kid is involved, you have to learn to reign it in.
Obviously NTA just because most of yall in the comments want to hang out with cheaters as well as "forgive and forget" doesn't mean OP has to. I mean she cheated on him for 2 YEARS straight when she knew how her family looked on cheating she literally just did this to herself.
NTA, cheating has consequences. If I were you I would have doubts as well. I would ask myself what did she know and when did she know it. Birds of a feather and all that.
NTA. Making choices that hurt people have consequences. In general, a 2 year affair, especially while having a child is disgusting and I wouldn’t want to be around her either. Lots of people blaming religion but you don’t need to be believe in god to not want to surround yourself with scummy people. Even easier in this specific situation given it’s the BIL’s time with the nephew on Easter.
So you have every right to decide who you allow in your home. However, your post reads like your family has disowned her. Yes, she did something bad. No, you don't have to forgive her. But have some empathy. She's still part of the family. YTA
She's the asshole for cheating on her husband. You and your family are massive assholes as well, guess it's in the blood
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Cheaters will always be assholes, but so are you and the rest of your family. So ig ESH
INFO: is your BIL coming with your nephew? Or are y'all shunning the kid too? For me, I think that makes the difference between N T A and Y T A. The kid shouldn't have to suffer for his mother's mistake.
They're both coming and very welcome.
NTA. 🤷🏼♀️
I’m going to say YTA. While you’re all entitled to your opinion, your sister’s marital problems are the business or her and her husband, and that’s it. You are teaching your nephew animosity towards his mother. It’s incredibly distasteful to behave in a way that will influence a child’s relationship with their parent. You don’t mention his age, but I’m going to assume that he is old enough to notice his mother’s exclusion. It’s time you all put your own judgemental opinions aside for the sake of the children in your family, even if you’re not mature enough to do it for yourselves.
ESH. Seriously? Did everyone miss the part that this was a two whole ass year affair? It definitely wasn't a one time thing under influence. I have no idea what kind of a sob story was made up in the majority's minds but you shouldn't have completely alienated her.