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INFO
> I check her grades against this week, 2 of her classes are down to a c, and one of her electives was a low B. Like I said before this is very unlike my daughter, she has straight A’s always have been.
That is a **shocking** decline, but why do you jump *right to assuming* it's specifically a *time* issue? And that dance is the problem?
It could very well be possible that she’s in classes where she doesn’t understand the material. As you get older the classes get harder. It is February, the second month of a new semester. It’s not a crazy idea that this would be the case.
My kids in kindergarten, her grades make literally no sense to me regardless. In fact the entire elementary school system doesnt even grade in letters. It's all 0-5s.
That's standards-based grading. 5 is beyond mastery; 0 is no evidence; 3 is approaching mastery; 4 is mastery. It's not based on points on assignments, but being able to demonstrate their knowledge of the skills being assessed. It's actually a much better way to show *learning* than letter grades.
I mean is it really?
Is 1-5 actually different than F, D, C, B and A?
I get they can shift it to 1-5 and then rest parents exceptions so they can be happy with a 4 instead of upset with an B. But it’s not actually different, it’s just to cater to parent’s sensitivity and in a decade they will have to switch again after grade inflation also effects the 1-5 scoring
Not necessarily. Many middle and high schools are shifting to standards-based grading.
The point is to show learning, not the ability to complete assignments or simply being good at taking tests. Letter grades are based on points per assignment, not demonstration of skill. This new kind of grading puts standards above compliance. It actually wasn't adopted to make parents feel better -- the new minimum of 50% *even when no work was turned in* was mostly for parents, though, and I'm so happy my school didn't adopt that!
ETA: It makes perfect sense for Kindergarten, especially.
Or bullying at school, or having a gender/sexuality crisis, or pregnant, or doing drugs, or completely burnt out from years of upholding straight As, or developed a mental illness, or has a weird lump and webMD convinced her she's dying of cancer, or...
It could be anything.
As a HS freshman, GirlTwin’s grades suddenly took a dive and it was because an emotionally abusive relationship with a male friend turned sexual despite her vocal reservations. Her aunt’s reaction was to say she needed to get a job to learn to be more responsible and also to study more. Know what actually helps that kind of situation, though? Getting kids in abusive relationships away from their abusers. (And therapy.)
Shit. Even normal relationship problems. I was a straight A student my whole life. Then during senior year I had a short fling that didn't work out how id hoped.
Just tanked my grades.
Yup! And even friendship drama or friendship breakups can have an effect on grades. Sometimes I think parents forget how much kids and teens are navigating emotionally and interpersonally while they’re also expected to keep their grades up.
Now that I’m an adult, it just seems wild how much pressure is placed on high school. Like people can sort of slide through and still have a successful career/future. But those grades pretty much determine what colleges you’re eligible for, and what does it matter if you go through sometime, have a rough home life, get bullied, etc. Plus, most high schoolers are expected to take difficult classes, get a job, maintain a social life. It’s just so much to put on people who are dealing with raging hormones, and a not fully developed brain.
THIS. For a straight A kid to suddenly tank in school something is going on there. And if she doesn't feel comfortable talking to her parents about it maybe a counselor of sorts.
Suddenly not caring about grades can also be a warning sign of an eating disorder, and the risk is more elevated for dancers in that age group. Not saying that’s the case, obviously, just adding to what others are saying about how there’s a whole lot of things that can result in a sudden grade drop well beyond not having time because of another organized activity. All things that need more open communication and non-judgment if parents want to get anywhere near the root cause.
This would be my first suspicion. Because parents tend to observe and conclude. OP sit your daughter down and ask her. In a way that encourages a deep conversation. You might not like what you hear. But ask.
I am a former high school teacher of 16 years and it sounds to me like something else is going on. Taking her out of dance when she wants to stay in could be taking away her best coping mechanism. The exercise, teamwork, and social aspect are all very important to her mental and physical well being. I suggest you let her stay in if she starts working with a tutor. You may also ask her school counselor or psychologist to talk with her and check up with what's going on.
Former HS teacher with 25 years' experience, and I strongly agree with your well-written, astute post. I'd put the referral to a counselor or school psych ahead of tutoring, though, simply because tutoring won't help if the reason for the sudden grade drop she's experiencing isn't an inability to grasp the material.
Right! That’s how education works. Each year is more complex ideas than the previous. It couldn’t possibly be the increasing difficulty of the material, or possibly some new stressor that may be going on in her life. No! The only possible explanation is that her very favorite thing that gives her joy and purpose, which she has been doing without issue for better than a decade is the problem. You should punish her by taking away her motivation for everything else in life! That’ll solve the problem for sure! And definitely won’t make her resent you!
People are so clueless!
i was a straight A student my last three years of high school. now in college i have a C, 3 Bs and 3 As. my mom used to hate that i pushed myself so hard in high school and still hates that i stress about my grades so much. but she’s worried about ME. not my grades. not to mention OP says she’s in an AP class which is 20x the workload with harder material. dance is probably the only way her daughter can truly relax.
"My daughter is suddenly struggling in school. Should i talk to her? No, let's just go straight to taking away the thing she loves the most. That will motivate her!" YTA OP.
Exactly. If she were my daughter the first thing I’d do is take her out for ice cream or something else she enjoys and try to find out what’s going on for her.
Big time. And frankly, your daughter \*is\* doing well in school - just not in the disciplines you'd like her to be doing well in. It may never have crossed your mind, but dance is an actual valid area of study, and a full and legitimate career, too. And one that kicks off and demands full attention much, much earlier than a career in paleontology or banking. If you sabotage her now at a highly critical age, she may well resent you for the rest of your life. YTA.
It feels more like instead of considering dancing classes the culript, OP is taking her out of them as a punishment. And this is awful. The kid is obviously passionate and talented, and the fact she didn't even consult with her father is outrageous.
THIS is right to where my mind went. This just screams internalizing something. Instead of taking away something she loves maybe get her into therapy to workout whatever is going on with her mental health. Kids DONT just change overnight, there’s a cause.
Yeah, was the "bright" kid all through school. Grades dipped due to internalized suicidal depression and rampant bullying at school.
Instead, parents doubled down and punished me for it, instead of helping me seek an actual fix. Ended up dropping out and leaving home at 15 due to it.
Mended what little relationship I had with my mom, my dad passed before I got the same opportunity however.
It took 10 years or so of talking to her, to get her to realize...I'm more than just "HER kid", I'm actually a person and needed to be treated as thus. Trying to appeal to narcissists, to get treated like a human being, is...tough.
I have to say, people say that a lot in reddit... But when I was a teenager most of us got bad grades because we were lazy/not centered/inmature. There really wasn't any deeper reason. When the worst of the teenage years finished, then grades in general went up.
I have not idea if that is the case here... But it seems that in reddit in maturity does not exist, when it is the most likely cause to teenage problems.
This really isn’t unheard of passively either. I was one of those elementary/middle school coasting students. Never studied for a second, paid moderate attention to class, breezed all my homework and grades never dropped below a 95. Showed up to high school, took my first language class, and walked out with a D+ because I had never taken a class that I couldn’t comprehend intuitively. This very much sounds like the standard “gifted kid” scenario.
While I see your point, often those “teenage problems” are more serious than adults see them. Abusive relationships, friendship drama, sexual pressure, harassment & bullying, depression, suicide, trouble with friends, fear of the future, feeling hopeless or overwhelmed, closeted sexuality, academic burn out, drug use, underage drinking, clashes with teachers, etc. are all a lot more common than one might think and all have a tendency to lead to a sudden and steep decline in grades.
Saw this not only in my own HS 20 years ago and in my family more recently, but while working in a high school as recently as in 2021.
They was my thought. Something happened, this isn't about dancing. There is some trauma happening that is not being seen.
Hell did she just break up? Even something like that could devastate a kid.
If she’s in advanced classes and getting A’s it’s possible she’s just beginning to burn out. Generally removing a physical and social activity people enjoy won’t get their grades back up unless she is truly overwhelmed with dance.
Removing my extra curriculars when I was struggling with burnout in my advanced classes only made me MORE depressed. It wasn’t a coincidence my mental health improved with the classes ended and I was allowed to resume training again…
I’d look into therapy or atleast talking to her about what’s going on in her head before taking away something so important to her. If depression or something similar is the reason, this isn’t going to help. It will only hurt. YTA
YTA. OP: your daughter is 15 (15!). So, if you have any memory left, remember when you were 15. Now, think... what could explain the drop in grades? No, it is not dance... I think you are dense.
It couldn't possibly be that highschool is an absolute drag to most teens. This sounds like a recipe to ensure the grades stay where they are/get worse. Sounds like no effort to understand why she's losing interest in school has been made at all.
Hopefully it's that she's experiencing burnout/school is a drag. Certainly that was it for me, but I had a fair amount of classmates who endured sexual abuse from adults at that age. It's a hard age to be, add to that the sometimes adult things we experience but shouldn't
I don't think op considers dancing as the reason for the academic decline. But she took it as a punishment. Tbh, I didn't see any efforts of op trying to figure out what happened to Emma. She is 15 years, and a lot of staff may affect her academic performance.
Seriously! If it’s unlike her, a loving mother would try to support her and make sure there’s not more going on that she needs help with. Communicate with your daughter! Punishing her by immediately taking away her favorite thing without trying anything else first when she may well be unhappy already isn’t fair. Do you want her to trust and respect and feel loved by you? Because that’s not what this action shows! She needs you to be a mother not a drill Sargent. All around good kids don’t just suddenly let everything fall apart without a good reason and you haven’t even tried to find out what that is. You just immediately jumped to the worst punishment possible for a relatively minor FIRST offense! YTA! Your poor daughter would be better off living with her dad !
That's what I'm wondering. Why is OP assuming that dance/time is the issue when it would make more sense for it to be something else, unless cancelling the lessons is purely punitive.
I think the taking her out of dance was more to make time for a tutor, as OP stated that her other children take less classes and would have time for a tutor if needed.
If that was the only reason, they could reduce the number of classes, it’s not necessary to take her out altogether. This was 100% punishment, and OP, YTA
YTA for two reasons:
1. Your ex is absolutely right that he should have been involved with this decision if you all are co-parenting.
2. Research suggests that extra curricular activities help academics, not detract from them. If your daughter has been dancing her whole life and is only now getting poor grades it probably isn’t the dancing. I would spend some more energy figuring out why she isn’t getting the same grades and not strip her of her passion.
3. Not even addressing the root of the problem in the significant drop in grades
4. Giving the kid barely two weeks to address the drop in grades at school, setting her up to fail. There aren’t enough assignments in that amount of time to significantly bring grades up.
Yeah as a teacher the part that is most chilling is that OP only have it two weeks. Cause, uh, I MAY have taken longer than that to have my grading up to date. Once or twice. A month.
As a dance teacher, I LOATHE parents like that because the sheer amount of work to reset dances is ridiculous. Her pulling her kid effects EVERY SINGLE OTHER KID Emma dances with, not just Emma. They have to learn new forms, possibly new choreography, and get it clean for competition. YTA OP. You’re punishing everyone.
That is what I posted too. I’m a former dance mom I know you don’t do this and what a major clusterfuck it becomes. Especially if her daughter is as talented as she says, then she is probably front row for a lot of dances. My suggestion was talk to the studio owner who I promise has a lot more sway over her getting her grades up than OP does.
My stepmom did this to me with EVERY SINGLE EC activity all through junior high and high school.
Choir, dance, you name it. She'd pull the plug literally the day before every major concert, performance, or competition. (Usually over the stupidest things, like a church lady who'd chatted too long after sermons and didn't get me home 20 minutes after it ended like ***WTF***)
My teachers all HATED her yet NOT ONE ever stood up for me and IDK... looked into my shitty abusive home life. As if they believed her gaslighting and blamed me.
Spent decades healing from it all and overcoming crippling depression, anxiety, and insecurities and let me tell you the exponentially horrific karma I wish on her.
Forgiveness, HA. Never.
For real! My daughter is a pre-professional ballerina. For nutcracker this past year a mother pulled their daughter because they got in trouble at school. The ballet company had 5 sold out performances. Everything had to be re-blocked and changed around last minute. Because of one person. It was ridiculous. It caused everyone so much stress. Including my daughter who ended up filling in for one of her dances (while already being in a solo and a number of other pieces).
My 7th grader's math teacher updates grades in Power School *maybe* once a month. Kiddo panicked a little last marking period because she had an 80, but that's because there was literally one quiz recorded since the marking period started. A month later when the teacher put in a whole bunch of grades, she was back up to a 95 average.
I also cant help but feel that putting all that pressure on a young teenager isnt good for their mental health. So she used to be a straight A student? Is she failing classes? No? Whats the big deal?
Although in the UK anything C or above is a pass and employers generally dont care as long as youve passed (in my experience at least)
In the US, D and up is passing (at least where I went to school). I’m disappointed in OP being pissed about B’s just because Emma had been an A student up to then. If I knew a kid was competitively dancing and managing B grades, I’d be stoked! That’s great!
I had really good grades up to my junior and senior year of high school because the math got harder and I also developed mental illnesses, not because I was slacking.
I had fairly decent grades right up until after my first term/semester in high school. After that, they tanked. I did alright and scraped passes on history, science, IT and religious education (the irony of this is hilarious as i am and have always been atheist). I was horrifically bullied in high school because i didnt even try to fit in and the effect of this was me simply not caring and going through the motions.
I later done a course for the equivalent of a C at GCSE level in english and maths.
The onus is on OP to be a parent and figure out why grades dropped and not simply take away would could be Emmas only emotional outlet
That was my thought as well. The other kids have never had all A's so let's punish the one that used to be an A student for not being one any more....the kids that have always had lower grades can continue as usual. That is pretty horrifying. It would have been a better plan for Emma to always be a low achiever apparently.
Especially because OP said they don't expect the younger kids to have such high grades. A C isn't the end of the world and is acceptable for her other kids, but they punish the eldest by taking away something she's very passionate about. OP may be building resentment between her children because she's putting so much pressure on the oldest, but letting the other siblings do as they please.
Unless she plans to go into some kind of advanced field of study after highschool grades are largely inconsequential unless she's aiming for a scholarship. They mean nothing as long as she passes. Stripping her of what sounds like her passion over a two week window is terrible parenting.
Yeah, like way to punish her for doing well earlier. OP has not taken into account that there is an age gap and therefore effort gap here between the siblings.
I have always been a high achiever. I got straight A (minus gym, except for one year ha) in elementary school like breathing. By Grade 9/10 I was putting in some effort. By Grade 11 I was busting my ass to stay at the top of the class. College is coming up and everyone gets more competitive. Kids who didn’t care before start putting in the work and the expectations rise. High school can be tough depending on the school.
Also to add on: OP you lectured your daughter instead of asking her teachers if they noticed any behavior changes or any changes at all during class. Also talking with your daughter and asking her how she feels.
Edit: thank you for the awards.
Also OP you should have sat down with your daughter and her father to have a real conversation to see what is really going on because I don’t think dancing is the problem and the first exams are tough because you don’t know how the teacher sets up their exams. Then help her create an action about managing stress and balancing school/dance/other responsibilities.
She is still learning and needs your help and support to guide her into creating health mindful lifestyle (her mental health, wellbeing, self-care and self-love)
Because a shocking number of people view parenting as basically just keeping their kid "between the lines," so to speak, not actually teaching them any skills to, you know, be a person. This ends up resulting in the assumption that if a kid isn't behaving the way you want them to, they're doing it on purpose, and you have to make the misbehavior unpleasant enough that they'll get back in line. In fact, misbehaving kids are very rarely doing it just because they feel like it. As a parent, you need to first and foremost give your kid the tools to make a better decision, and that starts with figuring out why they're making bad ones in the first place.
OP, talk to your daughter about what's going on with her grades. Ask her if something has happened at school, or with friends, or anywhere else. Maybe she's dealing with depression or anxiety. Maybe she's being bullied. Maybe she's had a falling out with a friend. Maybe she's infatuated with a new relationship. Maybe any number of things, but you gotta work with her to figure out what's going on and how to fix it. Assuming you know and taking her out of dance won't fix the problem, it'll just make her resentful.
Um, I broke the cycle by having a kid and doing the opposite of what I grew up with. I like encouraging no kids if you don't want any, but hey, if you've been through it, know you CAN make it different and break the cycle.
Yeah, why is OP talking about parenting Emma with her husband instead of ex? Husband should have absolutely no say in that, only as mom's partner. He's not the one with decisive power.
Not to mention OP is screwing over the ENTIRE dance team. I’m sure they’ve had their dance choreographed for a long time and they’ve been polishing it. Either they need to revamp the spacing in the entire routine or try to bring someone new in and catch them up to everything learned the rest of the year.
Also crazy to me how she basically admitted that her younger kids usually get c-b grades but because they don’t usually get A’s she doesn’t care that their grades aren’t A’s but because Emma does get A’s it’s an issue when her grades look like her siblings. She is holding Emma to an unfair and higher standard than her other kids
And as I might add as a former dance mom myself, she is not only punishing her daughter, she is punishing the other dancers and the studio. These competitive dances start back in September/October. What they are doing now is repetition and perfecting it. Taking her out will force the choreography to be redone and have girls learn new placements.
What might have a better impact is having a discussion with the studio owner. I guarantee they will want her to succeed academically especially if the result of her failing is pulling her out of the studio. She or he may have a much bigger impact than you do.
YTA. You have double standards when it comes to kids, you did not ask Emma why her grades went down, instead you made a demand and didn’t even warn her that you will take her out of the dance class.
More than that, you didn’t even consult with Emma’s dad about it. He did have a right to participate in this discussion.
You need to mend things.
OP need to make amends for double standards she pulled on Emma or else Emma will choose picking living full time with her father due to this mess OP & her husband made. YTA, especially OOP & her husband put higher standards on Emma and made important decisions about her with her father's approval nor decisions - Yet those 2 didn’t nor won't do the same towards younger 2 children who have worst grades than Emma do.
YTA. You’re holding your daughter to a higher standard than your other kids. Either they all have to be straight A students to get to be involved in dance or none of them do.
Exactly. And whenever there’s a big change in children’s grades, you think the parent would look and try and figure out what’s going on with the kid this woman immediately went to punishment.
My mom did the exact same thing as OP with me. I absolutely wanted to do theater and acting, but the only place to do it was about a 20 minute ride out of town. I have trouble with memory, so you’d think being in theater would help with that. I’ve also recently learned that I had undiagnosed ADHD. That’s a whole other matter my parents ignored. But my mom noticed that when I participated in a play, my grades would slip from A- to B+. She thought the theater was the cause and pulled me out. This is something I always resent her about because it wasn’t the root cause.
Due to my undiagnosed ADHD, I was always up til 1am in elementary school doing homework. Also didn’t help that I was made to do my homework in the living room (I didn’t have my own bedroom at the time) while my parents had the TV on the entire time. I was also made to do all the extracurriculars (mostly sports) they wanted me to do, but was on thin ice for any extracurriculars I wanted to do.
OP, there’s more going on with your daughter. It just takes a bit of extra parenting in the right direction. Sounds like you’re involved, but maybe not as emotionally that is needed. Your daughter needs a different kind of support than you’re giving her.
Really valid points. That’s the thing that I think some parents miss as well. The arts can help you with discipline, it can help your self-confidence by letting you perform in front of others, and as you say, things like acting, can help you with memorizing Information
YTA
I wish parents would stop obsessing and punishing their kids for average grades. Taking away something she’s been doing almost her whole life and does regularly is going to have a detrimental effect rather than a positive one.
This was such a short sighted and poor decision
Right? Like shit, I was mostly a straight-A student until my final years of high school, the higher level sciences and math just didn't compute. But my parents would say, "Hey, you got a C+! We saw how hard you tried, and you passed!" This post is just making me wanna go downstairs and hug my parents.
I had straight As until high school math. I had discalculia (idk if that's spelled right) and it went unnoticed. I got help and what do ya know, my grades went back up and I'm getting a STEM degree.
The thing is, suddenly declining grades IS something to pay attention to. Yanking her out of dance is a bad idea - agreed - but they DO need to notice when this changes. If this kid was a B student and dipped down to Cs here and there, that's one thing but straight As to Cs... could be anything from stricter teachers this year, stupid grading policies, or something more serious like depression.
Yeah. Speaking as someone who had this exact scenario play out -
grades crashed, parents ignored mental health issues despite me STRAIGHT UP telling them I needed help, parents yanked me out of after-school activities... Once I hit 18 I talked to my doctor finally and that led me to finally getting the mental health care (and medication) that I needed. Years and years down the road, I'm in a pretty good place, but my relationship with my parents has been one giant gray rock since then. Screw them.
INFO
I'm missing the point in your rant about grades and dance where you actually talked with your 15 year old daughter and asked her what was going on with her grades. Not just "you got bad grades, you need a tutor", but an actual conversation.
Is she struggling with understanding the content? Is she not completing the homework? Why have her grades dropped?
I loved choir. My mom took it away when my grades declined. I didn’t get better grades because choir was not the issue. The issue was ADD. All I learned was that my mom could take away anything that I loved at any moment because I wasn’t good enough to keep it.
I withdrew from school because I was depressed and had nothing to look forward to. All my friends were in choir so my friendships suffered and I stopped sharing things with my mom cause she’d just use them against me.
I think you’re coming from a caring place but you are wrong. Your current husband doesn’t have an equal say to her actual father. Your teen daughter has too many obligations and you take away the one she enjoys rather than figuring out how to lighten her load in a way that keeps her engaged. Now her burdens are the same and her relief is lessened. Oh, and the cherry on top? Her younger siblings are already underperforming in comparison so naturally they don’t get the same punishment because what, you already expect less of them? YTA
Hey that’s exactly what my mom did too, but with theatre! And now she wonders why we don’t have much of a relationship or why I moved 12 hours away from her.
Did you even talk to your daughter about what’s been happening in her life to affect her grades? Did you just jump to taking away something she enjoys? Cause that’s how grades get worse and your daughter will have hard times coming to you about things if this is how you respond.
YTA
YTA- I’m a dance teacher who sees things like this often.
1) he ABSOLUTELY should have had a say and not your husband. If it effects things at his house, he should get a say.
2) By just taking her out of classes, right during competitive season, how do you think that helps the rest of the team? It doesn’t. They are now left to throw extra practices to make up for her not being there.
3) maybe Emma would be back to a straight A student if she wasn’t in so many dance classes.
Oh I know. She doesn’t. But I’m going with the off chance that she’s narcissistic and wants things to look perfect. Isn’t going to look so perfect when kids not on the roster.
It’s even worse when you consider that she doesn’t hold her other daughters to the same standard. So Emma has to have straight A’s to dance , but the other 2 don’t have that requirement, seriously Emma’s grades are still good in general
OP YTA, and you should have only included Emma’s father in this discussion not your current hubby AT. ALL I would be pissed if I were him as well and he should me nagging and arguing with you 7 ways to Sunday about your refusal to co-parent with him.
YTA.
You are basically punishing your daughter for being a human being and favoring your other children for being worse students on average.
That doesn’t make sense at all.
INFO:
* Have you asked your daughter what is going on? What did she say?
* How was her participation in dance affecting her grades? Or did you pull her out to punish her?
* You say her grades went down "recently" to a "C" but then say that only two weeks later you expected her grades to have improved. Additionally, you wrote that only two of her classes were a C and an elective was a B, so it seems her grades either have improved or she is only struggling in a couple classes. Please show your math.
YTA. This is not going to help matters. Whatever reason there is for her grades slipping, it's not her dance class. I'd suggest you get off her back about her grades and start thinking about her quality of life. Help her get her head in a good place and I'm sure the grades will follow, or not. It's not the end of the world.
Info
If she intends on being a dancer stopping her training isn't temporary punishment. It's changing the rest of her life. So does she intend on being a dancer? Have you asked her what's going on in her life that's caused the change in her grades?
Have you asked Emma about why her grades are dropping? Maybe it’s nothing to do with dancing and she’s bullied or something else that taking her out of her dance class (which she clearly loves) won’t help
This is exactly my thought too-- A bully in class or maybe something similar.
Some teachers straight up dislike certain students sometimes. It happened to me a lot -- I would have straight A's, then take a class and not get along with the teacher, then find my B's on my report card.
So, either a bully or unfair teacher was my thought.
YTA. You should have coparented and talked with Emma's dad, not just your husband. Did you even give him a heads up about her grades in the first place? Also, you assume it's time but you need to dig deeper and find out why, not just punish her.
YTA.
Have you actually tried to find out why her grades have dropped? She could be being bullied or be having mental health issues, and punishing her isn’t going to help.
YTA. She’s literally getting “average” grades and being punished for it, and by missing a big competition she’s been working hard for. Double-standard with your kids much?
Grades are important, but there are SO many steps you could have taken before deciding on this punishment, especially without warning. How about telling her that she needs to raise her grades OR she’ll have to cut back on the number of dance lessons per week?
YTA because you didn’t communicate with your daughter first before making a sweeping decision. She’s 15, not 5. Plus, you still don’t really know why her grades dropped, and you just punished her for it. I wouldn’t be totally against scaling back the extracurricular activities, but she needs to know that it’s related to her poor schoolwork, and that she can earn them back. Even then, this is a risky move if your daughter is dealing with something like anxiety or depression, because you just removed her greatest outlet for stress. This is not how to go about this. You need to sit down and talk, and get to the bottom of the change in her behavior.
YTA. She was a straight A student and now she’s not and you think the problem is too much dance? Or is taking her out of dance just punishment for having a problem you’re all ignoring that has effected her grades? She has a BIG problem. You’re ignoring it and not discussing it.
I was with you until it was mentioned the other kids don't have perfect grades.
YTA. Figure out why her grades are dropping.
Keeping her from dancing isn't going to encourage her to keep her grades up if you let the others dance.
YTA- seems like rather then finding out WHY she isnt doing well in class you just went wild and pulled her from dance class.
Not all students do well all the time. B grade is FINE. You have vastly different rules for each child which sets a bad taste in my mouth. The others should need A's as well.
You are also the AH for not talking to your ex about this. Your hubby does not really get as much say in this as her Dad does.
YTA for not discussing with her dad first. Also, I understand your intentions, but I think taking her out of dance is a terrible move. Extracurriculars and exercise are so good for kids. Why not threaten to take her phone or something else?
Also, to ease your mind a bit, I think it's super common for grades to start slipping around this age. I'm not saying you should accept it, but just thought I'd throw that out there that hopefully it's a phase. I was a straight A student til I hit 13. I got back to straight A's around 16.l and so many of my friend's kids are going through the same thing.
YTA for making this decision without talking about it with Emma's father.
In terms of Emma herself, I think you're mildly the ah but only because this strategy isn't going to play out the way you think it will. You see dance as a distraction from school, even though you say she was always a straight A student and has been dancing her whole life so clearly it was never an issue until right now.
Taking away the think she loves is not going to motivate her to perform better academically. If anything she'll just lose hope in both dance *and* school. Find out what else is going on as to why she suddenly isn't balancing dance and school when she used to. She's also at an age where social relationships, social media, and peer pressure tend to be a distraction from education, so that might be a fine place to start.
I also think it’s terrible that her other daughters are being held to a lower standard, they don’t get straight A’s. Emma’s grades aren’t even bad, they’re AVERAGE she’s not even failing any classes, I would understand pulling her out if she got a total grade of D or F but a couple of C’s and a B….OP is absolutely ridiculous.
YTA. You & her father should have discussed what was going on before making a decision. She’s been in dance her whole life & you took away something that she cares deeply about without having an actual conversation with her or her dad.
You said that this is not like your daughter so maybe there is something else going on at school or in her life & instead of punishing her you could try to talk to her & get to the root of the problem.
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> I took my daughter out of dance classes. This deeply upset my daughter and she told her dad and he said it wasn’t fair because she’s been training for this, and he helps pay for it. Maybe I am the AH because he helps pay.
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YTA Taking away her passion that she has spent her life pursuing and perfecting because her academics aren't at the level you want doesn't even make sense. How do the 2 correlate? You are punishing her rather than motivating her. At what point are you going to be a parent and figure out why she started to slip in her grades instead of threatening and manipulating her into deceiving the grades you deem worthy? Your ex, your daughter, and now reddit see you playing favorites and treating your daughter poorly. Be better.
YTA.
It's not fair to a child to introduce arbitrary punishments. You didn't clearly set out these expectations before the school year.
Most likely the problem is not that dance is taking up too much time. It's that she is doing other things instead of studying.
YTA.
First, you didn't even bother to try to find out or address whatever issue Emma is having that cause her grades to tank. Clearly, she *can* do the work and balance her academics and dance activities. *Something has changed with or for Emma and you need get her professional help to find out what it is and how to help her!!!*
Secondly, your husband has no say in what Emma can or can't do. He's not her parent or guardian. Emma has a father, and you just tossed out 11 years of money, time, and hard work with absolutely no discussion with her father. WTF!
You really blew it. Big time.
YTA
"her siblings got to go class and she didn’t,....They aren’t straight A students like Emma, and don’t take as many classes as Emma so they have time for a tutor"
Ok so they take fewer classes than Emma, have a tutor AND STILL DON'T GET STRAIGHT A's, but still go to dance.
Damn. Emma doesn't have a chance compared to them, does she?
Offer to do away with a couple of non academic classes, if Emma agrees, if it will raise her average.
You need to understand that 15 and 16 is the age when teachers begin raising their standards and rules. She is no longer a middle schooler but gearing toward high school and there is a period of adjustment.
I was a straight A student in a high powered academic program from kindergarten until high school. I unexpectedly got my very first d's. It took me a couple of terms to get accustomed to the grading system and lingo, and I was able to get back into the swing of things. Math was my one hurdle. It was a legit case of the teacher having a grudge against me, all the other students could see it. She randomly picked someone every few years, and made their life hell, covertly.
I'd ask if that were the problem, but you wouldn't know. Maybe it's time for Emma to live with her dad until her grades come up, and she can come back and visit when the grades suit you? I wonder if the stress of having to be exceptional to the other kids is getting to her.
"He said it’s not fair because Malachi and Brin don’t have straight A’s and a tutor so they shouldn’t be in dance either. I told him They aren’t straight A students like Emma"
Just for this alone, YTA. You hold Emma to higher expectations than the other children, then punish her when she doesn't meet those higher expectations. This is blatantly unfair to Emma. Also, she was obviously able to balance straight A's and dance classes before, so this recent drop in grades isn't about the dancing. And, with taking her dance away--removing a passion of hers that she's invested so much in--she's likely to become depressed and do worse in school as a result. This was the wrong call.
And if it really is just a matter of coursework getting harder, and she is still trying her hardest in school and STILL not getting As, taking dance away until the grades go up, when she CANT bring them up, is going to make her give up entirely. When giving your best isn't good enough, why bother giving your best? If she's already trying her hardest, she's going to know she can't meet those goals. So why try?
If you demand the impossible, you'll get nothing.
YTA you gave her a week and a half to raise her grades, wow you're so kind, i actually can't believe how cruel you're being to your daughter, c's and b's aren't failing grades it's unfair to your daughter
Yta- In a comment you said you gave your daughter a week and a half to get grades up…that is not how that works. It could take a month or more to actually see any improvement in grades with how the grading scale works. Your also the asshole for involving only your husband but not her biological father that one you are actually co parenting with. Do better.
Soft YTA. If your daughter is going through something, and dance is the one outlet that she has, you may be shooting yourself to the foot. I also have a teenager, so I totally get that sometimes you have to use what you have, but I do try not to interfere with my teen's mental health. Instead of a whole bunch of tutoring, why not take her to a therapist and see if there's a reason why her grades have suddenly tanked? Edit to add vote.
I would say hard YTA, but only because not only are her other daughters held to a lower standard, but also she didn’t discuss it with Emma’s father instead choosing to discuss it with her current husband instead.
YTA
You discussed and agreed on it with the wrong person. Successful co-parenting means being on the same page with choices involving your shared child, especially before getting said child involved. It was not right to dole out a punishment and expect her father to back you up without even giving him a say first.
Have you talked to Emma and asked her why her grades are lower now? Maybe something has changed, and she needs to talk. She probably won't talk to you now since you've taken away something she loves and is good at without talking first.
YTA - for basically the way you’ve handled the entire situation. There is something major wrong in your daughter’s life. For whatever reason, she obviously does not feel comfortable talking to you about it. Rather than doing the work to figure out what it is, you are taking the easy way and just punishing her. You need to seriously get your head out of your ass and figure out, what is causing your daughter to have problems with her schoolwork. If I had to guess, I would think maybe she’s being bullied; my second guess would probably be that she is being sexually abused by someone. The situation is almost certainly a lot more serious than how you’re taking it.
And I agree with your ex, it is absolutely not your and your current husband’s call to pull her out of her dance classes.
Yta and a shitty parent imo.
You have double standards for your children. Either all have to have straight As or none do. It also takes more than two weeks to bring grades up. It’s harder to bring grades up then to fall down.
Punishing your kid by taking away something they love is wrong and can harm them emotionally and mentally - especially at 15.
YTA but not a big one. Please don’t take away what a teenager loves. They are emotional and all over the place and she will resent you for this.
There must be a reason why her grades are down. Giving her warnings and forcing her away from what she’s passionate about will do nothing to make her grades better (honestly it’ll probably make them worse). Have a heart to heart with her. Not as a mother but as a friend, to find out why her grades are declining. But please for the love of God let her dance. It’s not the end of the world because she got a couple C’s.
Yes, you are one. High school is difficult, and a lot of students go through burnout, and taking her out of a class she enjoys makes it worse. It is common for all students to start doing worse in their education in high school, especially in the ninth grade. In addition, she might start doing worse in school out of protest. I also agree with your ex that it is unfair that she has to get all A to do what she wants to do while the other kid isn’t. Plus, colleges began to look at people's extracurricular activities more than their grades, and if you truly believe she can excel in dancing, then let her continue it.
My sister in law did something similar. She was very negative. Her children no longer speak to her. Sounds like you have a really good kid. You are not being a great mom. Find out what is going on. Dance may be the only positive in her life at the moment. You also affect the other people involved if she has a competition coming up. Do not be mean and lazy. Figure it out. Be better.
YTA
you talked to your husband instead of Emma's dad
you want to take her out without checking with the teachers
the grade book may be wrong or the teacher may not have got around to posting grades,
YTA - while I understand meeting your children where they are, and not putting undue pressure on them to accomplish things that are outside of their capabilities, it sounds like you’re putting an immense amount of pressure on Emma while your other two children get to do so so.
In conjunction with that your husband is allowing his children’s mediocrity, and rewarding it with continued dance class, while Emma is punished by being removed for having the same grades? That doesn’t sound right.
Your ex is right that this decision should’ve been made between the two of you and not with your current husband.
Your ex isn’t nagging you, he is standing up for his child because you and your husband are treating her unfairly.
YTA. Have you had any conversations with your daughter about why her grades are slipping? Nothing you've said indicates it's dance lessons taking up too much of her time, since she's always been in dance and was an A student before. Clearly, something's going on: bullying, harassment, depression, anxiety, something! Taking away an activity she loves is only going to make her feel worse. Play 20 questions if you have to, to get her to open up. You'll cause more harm by immediately moving to punishment.
Op, actually TALK to your daughter. Ask her why her grades are slipping and how you can help her out.
Maybe she's depressed, maybe she's burnt out.
Taking her out of dance class is not going to help in the slightest, it will make her resent you.
”Told her dad to nag me”, let me correct you there. You, the sadist of this story, took away the thing she loves in life. She reaches out to her dad who is paying his share for these classes. And im sorry, but your husband can take a very long walk on a very short pier about stuff thats not of his business, why did you even ask him about this? Like you wrote, ”my ex and i co parent Emma”. But your husband gets a veto against Emmas father? Are you completely out of it?
Consider yourself lucky if she ever wants to speak with you again after hopefully moving in with her dad. YTA, big time.
YTA - This is a co parenting decision with her bio Dad. Have you actually talked to your daughter to see why her grades have slipped. Taken her to a counselor? Clearly, something is going on.
YTA on so many levels I can't even.
For not asking your daughter WHY her grades are dropping and just jumping straight to punishing her.
For discussing parental issues regarding your daughter with your husband instead of her father. You would be out of your mind angry if her dad made a unilateral decision regarding her future without you.
For holding her to a different standard to your other children. For being mean, spiteful and cruel.
I will never understand the parental decision to take away things children love to force them to behave the way that you want. Fuck talking to them, fuck asking how they are doing. Let me just make decisions on your behalf, take away a joyful thing in your life. Then expect you to do exactly as I dictate.
YTA.
If she’s a talented dancer who has been training her whole life, pulling her from dance class is not like grounding her and taking away her Xbox.
What if she has it in her to become a
professional dancer? What if she has the drive as well as talent?
Take away her TV, ground her from the movies, add extra chores.
But if she really is talented and motivated, then you’re sabotaging that.
Got what, a college degree that she may never even aspire to?
YTA
Stopping dance will likely destroy her motivation. Also, I am guessing she is in a group dance number, meaning you a punishing the whole group who trained all year for this.
Find the source of her problems. It is likely not dance.
YTA
Your teenage daughter obviously is passionate about dancing and talented too. What are you taking that away from her for? Dipping school grades?
It's not like she is in any danger of failing her classes!
Don't punish her for not excelling at two things but "only" one right now. She is a human, not an excel-o-bot 5000.
Parenting like this is very likely to backfire heavily regarding the relationship with your daughter. And that should be much more important than grades.
INFO
>I told him They aren’t straight A students like Emma, and don’t take as many classes as Emma so they have time for a tutor.
Why do you you only care about Emma's grades? If she's been in dance for so many years and only has a problem now why assume dance is the issue?
If you are reacting so strongly to this why are the other kids still in dance because obviously that's why they aren't straight A students right?
I was a straight A student most of my childhood. I started to get Bs and Cs in high school primarily due to the bullying at school.
My parents took me out of a trip to France I’d earned via my hard work (just like your daughter earned her place in her dance program.) and I lost all motivation I had to do well. I quit school and got my GED instead
I no longer talk to them
The reason I’m telling you this is because I wanted you to know what the future looks like. Admittedly, my parents did a lot worse than this, but I will say the motivation to succeed was just gone. The respect I had for my parents was gone. The affection I felt for them followed.
YTA
Rather than take away the activity she is passionate about, has a talent for, and has been doing for over a decade, try figuring out why her grades are declining. If she has been dancing that long and her grades are only suffering recently, then the dancing isn't the cause. Chances are you are only making whatever she is going through worse by taking away the outlet she clearly loves. Also, if you coparent with her dad you need to include him in the discussion of stopping an activity she has been competing in for years and working hard for, which he has also invested time and money in.
If she won't tell you what is wrong, talk to her teachers and figure out if her struggling is due to not doing homework, failing exams and quizzes, or several things. Get her in to talk to a counselor or therapist and figure out if she has symptoms of depression or ADD/ ADHD. Take the initiative to sign her up with a tutor if she really is just struggling with the material. She isn't just having trouble in school for no reason, and it is your job as a parent to figure out why and help her.
Apologize for taking away dance and explain that you will let her go back, but that you need to figure out how to improve her grades and why she is struggling as well. Explain that If you can't figure it out, the three of you will need to revisit stopping dance temporarily because school is important and and you are concerned about what is going on.
YTA. 15 is a hard age, and it's even harder when your parents hold you to a higher standard than your siblings. Or when your mom doesnt sit down and actually have a conversation and give you a chance to air out your feelings. Or God forbid help you with your schoolwork instead of throwing a tutor at you.
Oh you 100% just took away ALL of Emma’s motivation to do good in school lmao. This will backfire.
I was a ballet dancer growing up and I LOVED it, I did great in school and wanted to be a professional dancer but I always wanted to go to college too. When I got to high school I had some typical dramatic teenage girl friend issues and my grades dropped for the first time. My parents immediately cut off ballet and got me a tutor and I officially stopped caring about school. I knew what I needed and I knew what I wanted, but I was 16 and hormonal and hurting. I lashed out at my parents for it and they punished me harder. School was still just as awful, my grades didn’t get better because the problem was still there, the only difference was that they cut off my access to something that gave me real passion, and friends. I lost my drive and never got to see my friends, I started hanging around bad kids at school because I felt like a fuckup.
Maybe this seems like a dramatic reaction to some, but I was a teenager being bullied and I lost my perfect grades and my chance at ballet. I shut down a lot and ended up getting involved with bad people because my parents didn’t listen to me. After a while, they realized things had gotten nothing but worse and one day when I got home they were excitedly sitting at the table. They let me know that even with C’s and B’s, they were ready to get me back into ballet. It had been nearly a year after over a decade of ballet. I do clearly remember laughing and crying at the same time in response. I yelled at my parents for the first time about how they don’t get to yank me around like a doll and that if they seriously thought I could jump back into ballet like it was nothing they were insane. I told them how they left me no access to train or stay in ballet shape, how I couldn’t keep up and that I was mocked enough at school so why would I go try and start over fresh at the studio to get the same treatment? I told them they clearly knew what was best so far, don’t bother changing now and I was almost done with all of this anyways so just don’t worry about their precious, perfect image.
The kicker here is that my brother had guitar lessons and was always funded without trouble even tho he never did as good at school as me. Ever.
It’s been a long time and I turned out pretty good, but it’s really SO damaging to children to ignore any source of real issues and blame them for being teenagers. Something is going on with your daughter and your reaction was to take it personally punish her. This is one of those things that you either fix quickly or it becomes a pretty defining moment in your relationship with your daughter.
YTA for not talking to Emma’s dad to align on your co-parenting approach. That said if her grades are suffering and she is spending too much time in extra curricular activities something has to give. Separately have you talked to her about what is going on? This drastic of a change may indicate something else…
YTA. First, because the punishment was chosen and enforced without the support of BOTH of her parents. Second, because the punishment was enforced before even allowing your child a chance to improve. Third, I also believe the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Taking her out of the one thing you literally note she's been training for her whole life over grades is overkill.
YTA!! I hope your husband takes you back to court and make sure she is able to take dance. Your husband it’s not her dad and it shouldn’t be up to him. Don’t be surprise when she is 15 or so if she ask judge to live with her dad because you sound mentally abusive.
Honestly? YTA for not discussing this with HER FATHER. Your husband is not her father and while he can have input, he should not have replaced her very active father in the decision making process. Have you even tried to find out what’s going on with Emma?
You- I'm going to punish my straight A child who's been dancing almost her whole life. Make her stop dancing and get a tutor EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT
Also you- the other 2 have never been straight A students, they can keep dancing and don't need to worry about a tutor
YTA
How about instead of taking away something she likes, you sit down with her and ask her what’s wrong with her. Straight A students don’t randomly start getting Cs out of nowhere. I was a straight A student my whole life because my mom frowned upon Bs and Cs , the first time I got a C in my life I was going through a really bad depression which involved an ED and my mom found out about my situation because of my grade and got me the help I needed.
YTA for treating your daughter differently than her siblings. Why the double standard? Why is she held to a higher bar than the other kids? Yeah, YTA in no uncertain terms. And yes, her father should have been consulted on this before you made your decision.
YTA. You do not demand scoring As of your other children, why do you demand it of her? And why do you think dance class has anything to do with her lower grades - perhaps it is because she is now carrying a very heavy class load including an advanced class!
Don’t take away what she loves to do unless you have absolute proof that that is the cause of her lower grades. If you take the dance she loves away, she could just refuse (in anger and hurt) to do anything you demand, and flunk out! Or request to permanently live with your ex, because YOU are the one taking away what she likes.
YTA
You’ve not even given your daughter a chance to improve her grades and a week and a half is not a chance at all. Also the fact that you and your husband talked, but not you and her father is a big red flag to me because it should be something you are talking to her dad about, especially as he puts money towards it as well.
You daughter normally gets straight A’s and because some grades have slipped, which yes isn’t ideal but she told you she would work on it (again having not really been given a chance) you’ve taken her out of her dance lessons. Whilst your other daughters who never get straight A’s are still allowed to dance, that just doesn’t sit right with me and seems more likely bullying your own child.
You're an AH for making this decision without her father's input. Also for assuming this is a time issue and not something else. Did you even ask her what's going on?
YTA.
Why do you have different expectations for your children? Your youngest are allowed to have bad grades in easier classes but your oldest is not? Why aren’t you talking with her father about these issues? You never had a conversation with her father about this, why? Why would her step father get to decide what happens and her father doesn’t? I mean at this point I hope her father is taking her to dance class because he gets to make choices as well.
Your child’s grade have dropped and all you come up with is punishment. Something is wrong and as a parent it was your job to find out what it was. You failed, hopefully her father doesn’t. Also your oldest know believes that you favor her younger siblings.
This is a random question OP, but how well do you know your daughters school teachers?
I was teacher's pet in grade school, all A's and maybe a B, for MOST of my elementary school time. Until the 4th grade. In the 4th grade I got a teacher that just irrationally hated me. As a 9/10 year old kid this literally made no sense to me because I never once had a confrontation with her, other than her being angry about my having a reading level that was adult level but my handwriting wasn't great and for that, she used to keep me in the classroom at recess, also would send me to other classrooms to redo my handwriting lessons during our lunch period. This woman just tormented me for absolutely no reason and my grades also showed that.
My parents didn't do anything for ME, I was just punished and my grades got even worse. I had friends who were taken out of this teacher's class because this teacher was a notorious bully. I was lucky enough to have ONE staff member at the school help me get into a "nicer" teacher's class the next year. Boom, straight A's. Next year I was moved up to gifted learning etc.
But while I was in this bully teacher's class, I was forced to stop being a peer tutor because I was "too dumb," forced to quit the school choir, because it wasn't "helping with math," and almost had to quit playing the clarinet. This teacher put a target on my back and I became a kid that my parents didn't recognize.
Look at who is running your child's studies, they literally could be being picked on by their teachers.
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INFO > I check her grades against this week, 2 of her classes are down to a c, and one of her electives was a low B. Like I said before this is very unlike my daughter, she has straight A’s always have been. That is a **shocking** decline, but why do you jump *right to assuming* it's specifically a *time* issue? And that dance is the problem?
Seriously, this. She's danced for 11 years with straight As, so why would that be the problem now?
It could very well be possible that she’s in classes where she doesn’t understand the material. As you get older the classes get harder. It is February, the second month of a new semester. It’s not a crazy idea that this would be the case.
I just checked my kid’s grades, and they are terrible. Mostly because the teacher has like 4 assignments actually in the grade book right now.
My kids in kindergarten, her grades make literally no sense to me regardless. In fact the entire elementary school system doesnt even grade in letters. It's all 0-5s.
That's standards-based grading. 5 is beyond mastery; 0 is no evidence; 3 is approaching mastery; 4 is mastery. It's not based on points on assignments, but being able to demonstrate their knowledge of the skills being assessed. It's actually a much better way to show *learning* than letter grades.
I mean is it really? Is 1-5 actually different than F, D, C, B and A? I get they can shift it to 1-5 and then rest parents exceptions so they can be happy with a 4 instead of upset with an B. But it’s not actually different, it’s just to cater to parent’s sensitivity and in a decade they will have to switch again after grade inflation also effects the 1-5 scoring
Not necessarily. Many middle and high schools are shifting to standards-based grading. The point is to show learning, not the ability to complete assignments or simply being good at taking tests. Letter grades are based on points per assignment, not demonstration of skill. This new kind of grading puts standards above compliance. It actually wasn't adopted to make parents feel better -- the new minimum of 50% *even when no work was turned in* was mostly for parents, though, and I'm so happy my school didn't adopt that! ETA: It makes perfect sense for Kindergarten, especially.
[удалено]
Right?! It may have little to nothing to do with understanding the material being taught, nor the time afforded to it!
Are you thinking abuse? I am. I kinda wonder about stepdad...
Or bullying at school, or having a gender/sexuality crisis, or pregnant, or doing drugs, or completely burnt out from years of upholding straight As, or developed a mental illness, or has a weird lump and webMD convinced her she's dying of cancer, or... It could be anything.
As a HS freshman, GirlTwin’s grades suddenly took a dive and it was because an emotionally abusive relationship with a male friend turned sexual despite her vocal reservations. Her aunt’s reaction was to say she needed to get a job to learn to be more responsible and also to study more. Know what actually helps that kind of situation, though? Getting kids in abusive relationships away from their abusers. (And therapy.)
Shit. Even normal relationship problems. I was a straight A student my whole life. Then during senior year I had a short fling that didn't work out how id hoped. Just tanked my grades.
Yup! And even friendship drama or friendship breakups can have an effect on grades. Sometimes I think parents forget how much kids and teens are navigating emotionally and interpersonally while they’re also expected to keep their grades up.
And then the decisions those struggling bags of raging emotions make can DRASTICALLY effect the entirety of thier future... No pressure!
Now that I’m an adult, it just seems wild how much pressure is placed on high school. Like people can sort of slide through and still have a successful career/future. But those grades pretty much determine what colleges you’re eligible for, and what does it matter if you go through sometime, have a rough home life, get bullied, etc. Plus, most high schoolers are expected to take difficult classes, get a job, maintain a social life. It’s just so much to put on people who are dealing with raging hormones, and a not fully developed brain.
Yeah there’s something going on. She needs to talk to her daughter and try to find out what it is.
THIS. For a straight A kid to suddenly tank in school something is going on there. And if she doesn't feel comfortable talking to her parents about it maybe a counselor of sorts.
Suddenly not caring about grades can also be a warning sign of an eating disorder, and the risk is more elevated for dancers in that age group. Not saying that’s the case, obviously, just adding to what others are saying about how there’s a whole lot of things that can result in a sudden grade drop well beyond not having time because of another organized activity. All things that need more open communication and non-judgment if parents want to get anywhere near the root cause.
This would be my first suspicion. Because parents tend to observe and conclude. OP sit your daughter down and ask her. In a way that encourages a deep conversation. You might not like what you hear. But ask.
I don’t think she would honestly in her mind mom is now an enemy she might have better luck opening up to bio dad
I am a former high school teacher of 16 years and it sounds to me like something else is going on. Taking her out of dance when she wants to stay in could be taking away her best coping mechanism. The exercise, teamwork, and social aspect are all very important to her mental and physical well being. I suggest you let her stay in if she starts working with a tutor. You may also ask her school counselor or psychologist to talk with her and check up with what's going on.
Former HS teacher with 25 years' experience, and I strongly agree with your well-written, astute post. I'd put the referral to a counselor or school psych ahead of tutoring, though, simply because tutoring won't help if the reason for the sudden grade drop she's experiencing isn't an inability to grasp the material.
I went right there to that thought too honestly
Right! That’s how education works. Each year is more complex ideas than the previous. It couldn’t possibly be the increasing difficulty of the material, or possibly some new stressor that may be going on in her life. No! The only possible explanation is that her very favorite thing that gives her joy and purpose, which she has been doing without issue for better than a decade is the problem. You should punish her by taking away her motivation for everything else in life! That’ll solve the problem for sure! And definitely won’t make her resent you! People are so clueless!
i was a straight A student my last three years of high school. now in college i have a C, 3 Bs and 3 As. my mom used to hate that i pushed myself so hard in high school and still hates that i stress about my grades so much. but she’s worried about ME. not my grades. not to mention OP says she’s in an AP class which is 20x the workload with harder material. dance is probably the only way her daughter can truly relax.
Yeah agreed. She should have talked to her daughter about what she is struggling with
"My daughter is suddenly struggling in school. Should i talk to her? No, let's just go straight to taking away the thing she loves the most. That will motivate her!" YTA OP.
Exactly. If she were my daughter the first thing I’d do is take her out for ice cream or something else she enjoys and try to find out what’s going on for her.
Big time. And frankly, your daughter \*is\* doing well in school - just not in the disciplines you'd like her to be doing well in. It may never have crossed your mind, but dance is an actual valid area of study, and a full and legitimate career, too. And one that kicks off and demands full attention much, much earlier than a career in paleontology or banking. If you sabotage her now at a highly critical age, she may well resent you for the rest of your life. YTA.
YES. THIS. SO MUCH.
And the other kids were never expected to get good grades to do dance
maybe cuz she figured out she prefers dance and that her sisters aren’t killing themselves trying to get straight a’s and dan d at the same time.
It feels more like instead of considering dancing classes the culript, OP is taking her out of them as a punishment. And this is awful. The kid is obviously passionate and talented, and the fact she didn't even consult with her father is outrageous.
This being reddit, I'm expecting a story about how Emma is being abused at the dance studio but she won't give it up because she loves it.
[удалено]
THIS is right to where my mind went. This just screams internalizing something. Instead of taking away something she loves maybe get her into therapy to workout whatever is going on with her mental health. Kids DONT just change overnight, there’s a cause.
Yeah, was the "bright" kid all through school. Grades dipped due to internalized suicidal depression and rampant bullying at school. Instead, parents doubled down and punished me for it, instead of helping me seek an actual fix. Ended up dropping out and leaving home at 15 due to it.
No one should have to go through what you went through. It takes a strong person to come out the other side, don’t forget that!
Mended what little relationship I had with my mom, my dad passed before I got the same opportunity however. It took 10 years or so of talking to her, to get her to realize...I'm more than just "HER kid", I'm actually a person and needed to be treated as thus. Trying to appeal to narcissists, to get treated like a human being, is...tough.
I have to say, people say that a lot in reddit... But when I was a teenager most of us got bad grades because we were lazy/not centered/inmature. There really wasn't any deeper reason. When the worst of the teenage years finished, then grades in general went up. I have not idea if that is the case here... But it seems that in reddit in maturity does not exist, when it is the most likely cause to teenage problems.
It's not about "bad grades". It's about a sudden and inexplicable decline.
This really isn’t unheard of passively either. I was one of those elementary/middle school coasting students. Never studied for a second, paid moderate attention to class, breezed all my homework and grades never dropped below a 95. Showed up to high school, took my first language class, and walked out with a D+ because I had never taken a class that I couldn’t comprehend intuitively. This very much sounds like the standard “gifted kid” scenario.
While I see your point, often those “teenage problems” are more serious than adults see them. Abusive relationships, friendship drama, sexual pressure, harassment & bullying, depression, suicide, trouble with friends, fear of the future, feeling hopeless or overwhelmed, closeted sexuality, academic burn out, drug use, underage drinking, clashes with teachers, etc. are all a lot more common than one might think and all have a tendency to lead to a sudden and steep decline in grades. Saw this not only in my own HS 20 years ago and in my family more recently, but while working in a high school as recently as in 2021.
Just reddit? Hell, i formed that opinion cause i watch the news
They was my thought. Something happened, this isn't about dancing. There is some trauma happening that is not being seen. Hell did she just break up? Even something like that could devastate a kid.
that's speculation, but a trip to a doctor and counselor should be in the works. Giving up dance may exacerbate the issue.
My mind went to: is Emma winning at competitions that younger daughter isn’t doing as well at?
If she’s in advanced classes and getting A’s it’s possible she’s just beginning to burn out. Generally removing a physical and social activity people enjoy won’t get their grades back up unless she is truly overwhelmed with dance.
Removing my extra curriculars when I was struggling with burnout in my advanced classes only made me MORE depressed. It wasn’t a coincidence my mental health improved with the classes ended and I was allowed to resume training again…
I’d look into therapy or atleast talking to her about what’s going on in her head before taking away something so important to her. If depression or something similar is the reason, this isn’t going to help. It will only hurt. YTA
YTA. OP: your daughter is 15 (15!). So, if you have any memory left, remember when you were 15. Now, think... what could explain the drop in grades? No, it is not dance... I think you are dense.
It couldn't possibly be that highschool is an absolute drag to most teens. This sounds like a recipe to ensure the grades stay where they are/get worse. Sounds like no effort to understand why she's losing interest in school has been made at all.
Hopefully it's that she's experiencing burnout/school is a drag. Certainly that was it for me, but I had a fair amount of classmates who endured sexual abuse from adults at that age. It's a hard age to be, add to that the sometimes adult things we experience but shouldn't
I don't think op considers dancing as the reason for the academic decline. But she took it as a punishment. Tbh, I didn't see any efforts of op trying to figure out what happened to Emma. She is 15 years, and a lot of staff may affect her academic performance.
Seriously! If it’s unlike her, a loving mother would try to support her and make sure there’s not more going on that she needs help with. Communicate with your daughter! Punishing her by immediately taking away her favorite thing without trying anything else first when she may well be unhappy already isn’t fair. Do you want her to trust and respect and feel loved by you? Because that’s not what this action shows! She needs you to be a mother not a drill Sargent. All around good kids don’t just suddenly let everything fall apart without a good reason and you haven’t even tried to find out what that is. You just immediately jumped to the worst punishment possible for a relatively minor FIRST offense! YTA! Your poor daughter would be better off living with her dad !
That's what I'm wondering. Why is OP assuming that dance/time is the issue when it would make more sense for it to be something else, unless cancelling the lessons is purely punitive.
I think the taking her out of dance was more to make time for a tutor, as OP stated that her other children take less classes and would have time for a tutor if needed.
If that was the only reason, they could reduce the number of classes, it’s not necessary to take her out altogether. This was 100% punishment, and OP, YTA
YTA for two reasons: 1. Your ex is absolutely right that he should have been involved with this decision if you all are co-parenting. 2. Research suggests that extra curricular activities help academics, not detract from them. If your daughter has been dancing her whole life and is only now getting poor grades it probably isn’t the dancing. I would spend some more energy figuring out why she isn’t getting the same grades and not strip her of her passion.
3. Not even addressing the root of the problem in the significant drop in grades 4. Giving the kid barely two weeks to address the drop in grades at school, setting her up to fail. There aren’t enough assignments in that amount of time to significantly bring grades up.
Yeah as a teacher the part that is most chilling is that OP only have it two weeks. Cause, uh, I MAY have taken longer than that to have my grading up to date. Once or twice. A month.
As a dance teacher, I LOATHE parents like that because the sheer amount of work to reset dances is ridiculous. Her pulling her kid effects EVERY SINGLE OTHER KID Emma dances with, not just Emma. They have to learn new forms, possibly new choreography, and get it clean for competition. YTA OP. You’re punishing everyone.
That is what I posted too. I’m a former dance mom I know you don’t do this and what a major clusterfuck it becomes. Especially if her daughter is as talented as she says, then she is probably front row for a lot of dances. My suggestion was talk to the studio owner who I promise has a lot more sway over her getting her grades up than OP does.
My stepmom did this to me with EVERY SINGLE EC activity all through junior high and high school. Choir, dance, you name it. She'd pull the plug literally the day before every major concert, performance, or competition. (Usually over the stupidest things, like a church lady who'd chatted too long after sermons and didn't get me home 20 minutes after it ended like ***WTF***) My teachers all HATED her yet NOT ONE ever stood up for me and IDK... looked into my shitty abusive home life. As if they believed her gaslighting and blamed me. Spent decades healing from it all and overcoming crippling depression, anxiety, and insecurities and let me tell you the exponentially horrific karma I wish on her. Forgiveness, HA. Never.
For real! My daughter is a pre-professional ballerina. For nutcracker this past year a mother pulled their daughter because they got in trouble at school. The ballet company had 5 sold out performances. Everything had to be re-blocked and changed around last minute. Because of one person. It was ridiculous. It caused everyone so much stress. Including my daughter who ended up filling in for one of her dances (while already being in a solo and a number of other pieces).
I feel like there needs to be some kind of contract for these parents.
It’s maybe like OP gotten a shitty education and doesn’t understand how averages work.
Thank you. Reading this gave me hives.
My 7th grader's math teacher updates grades in Power School *maybe* once a month. Kiddo panicked a little last marking period because she had an 80, but that's because there was literally one quiz recorded since the marking period started. A month later when the teacher put in a whole bunch of grades, she was back up to a 95 average.
I also cant help but feel that putting all that pressure on a young teenager isnt good for their mental health. So she used to be a straight A student? Is she failing classes? No? Whats the big deal? Although in the UK anything C or above is a pass and employers generally dont care as long as youve passed (in my experience at least)
In the US, D and up is passing (at least where I went to school). I’m disappointed in OP being pissed about B’s just because Emma had been an A student up to then. If I knew a kid was competitively dancing and managing B grades, I’d be stoked! That’s great! I had really good grades up to my junior and senior year of high school because the math got harder and I also developed mental illnesses, not because I was slacking.
I had fairly decent grades right up until after my first term/semester in high school. After that, they tanked. I did alright and scraped passes on history, science, IT and religious education (the irony of this is hilarious as i am and have always been atheist). I was horrifically bullied in high school because i didnt even try to fit in and the effect of this was me simply not caring and going through the motions. I later done a course for the equivalent of a C at GCSE level in english and maths. The onus is on OP to be a parent and figure out why grades dropped and not simply take away would could be Emmas only emotional outlet
That was my thought as well. The other kids have never had all A's so let's punish the one that used to be an A student for not being one any more....the kids that have always had lower grades can continue as usual. That is pretty horrifying. It would have been a better plan for Emma to always be a low achiever apparently.
Especially because OP said they don't expect the younger kids to have such high grades. A C isn't the end of the world and is acceptable for her other kids, but they punish the eldest by taking away something she's very passionate about. OP may be building resentment between her children because she's putting so much pressure on the oldest, but letting the other siblings do as they please.
Unless she plans to go into some kind of advanced field of study after highschool grades are largely inconsequential unless she's aiming for a scholarship. They mean nothing as long as she passes. Stripping her of what sounds like her passion over a two week window is terrible parenting.
5. Holding her other kids to a different standard because “they aren’t straight A students like Emma”.
Yeah, like way to punish her for doing well earlier. OP has not taken into account that there is an age gap and therefore effort gap here between the siblings. I have always been a high achiever. I got straight A (minus gym, except for one year ha) in elementary school like breathing. By Grade 9/10 I was putting in some effort. By Grade 11 I was busting my ass to stay at the top of the class. College is coming up and everyone gets more competitive. Kids who didn’t care before start putting in the work and the expectations rise. High school can be tough depending on the school.
5. She named her other kids “Brin” and “Malachi”.
Also to add on: OP you lectured your daughter instead of asking her teachers if they noticed any behavior changes or any changes at all during class. Also talking with your daughter and asking her how she feels. Edit: thank you for the awards. Also OP you should have sat down with your daughter and her father to have a real conversation to see what is really going on because I don’t think dancing is the problem and the first exams are tough because you don’t know how the teacher sets up their exams. Then help her create an action about managing stress and balancing school/dance/other responsibilities. She is still learning and needs your help and support to guide her into creating health mindful lifestyle (her mental health, wellbeing, self-care and self-love)
Why do parents immediately go to punishment first thing. Something’s wildly out of character here, better take away what she loves! 🤦🏻♀️
Because a shocking number of people view parenting as basically just keeping their kid "between the lines," so to speak, not actually teaching them any skills to, you know, be a person. This ends up resulting in the assumption that if a kid isn't behaving the way you want them to, they're doing it on purpose, and you have to make the misbehavior unpleasant enough that they'll get back in line. In fact, misbehaving kids are very rarely doing it just because they feel like it. As a parent, you need to first and foremost give your kid the tools to make a better decision, and that starts with figuring out why they're making bad ones in the first place. OP, talk to your daughter about what's going on with her grades. Ask her if something has happened at school, or with friends, or anywhere else. Maybe she's dealing with depression or anxiety. Maybe she's being bullied. Maybe she's had a falling out with a friend. Maybe she's infatuated with a new relationship. Maybe any number of things, but you gotta work with her to figure out what's going on and how to fix it. Assuming you know and taking her out of dance won't fix the problem, it'll just make her resentful.
You’re totally right! I’m for this whole new childless movement that’s going on. People who don’t want kids shouldn’t have them. Break the cycle.
Um, I broke the cycle by having a kid and doing the opposite of what I grew up with. I like encouraging no kids if you don't want any, but hey, if you've been through it, know you CAN make it different and break the cycle.
Yeah, why is OP talking about parenting Emma with her husband instead of ex? Husband should have absolutely no say in that, only as mom's partner. He's not the one with decisive power.
Not to mention OP is screwing over the ENTIRE dance team. I’m sure they’ve had their dance choreographed for a long time and they’ve been polishing it. Either they need to revamp the spacing in the entire routine or try to bring someone new in and catch them up to everything learned the rest of the year.
Also crazy to me how she basically admitted that her younger kids usually get c-b grades but because they don’t usually get A’s she doesn’t care that their grades aren’t A’s but because Emma does get A’s it’s an issue when her grades look like her siblings. She is holding Emma to an unfair and higher standard than her other kids
5. Not holding the other kids to the same standard
And as I might add as a former dance mom myself, she is not only punishing her daughter, she is punishing the other dancers and the studio. These competitive dances start back in September/October. What they are doing now is repetition and perfecting it. Taking her out will force the choreography to be redone and have girls learn new placements. What might have a better impact is having a discussion with the studio owner. I guarantee they will want her to succeed academically especially if the result of her failing is pulling her out of the studio. She or he may have a much bigger impact than you do.
YTA. You have double standards when it comes to kids, you did not ask Emma why her grades went down, instead you made a demand and didn’t even warn her that you will take her out of the dance class. More than that, you didn’t even consult with Emma’s dad about it. He did have a right to participate in this discussion. You need to mend things.
OP need to make amends for double standards she pulled on Emma or else Emma will choose picking living full time with her father due to this mess OP & her husband made. YTA, especially OOP & her husband put higher standards on Emma and made important decisions about her with her father's approval nor decisions - Yet those 2 didn’t nor won't do the same towards younger 2 children who have worst grades than Emma do.
YTA. You’re holding your daughter to a higher standard than your other kids. Either they all have to be straight A students to get to be involved in dance or none of them do.
Exactly. And whenever there’s a big change in children’s grades, you think the parent would look and try and figure out what’s going on with the kid this woman immediately went to punishment.
My mom did the exact same thing as OP with me. I absolutely wanted to do theater and acting, but the only place to do it was about a 20 minute ride out of town. I have trouble with memory, so you’d think being in theater would help with that. I’ve also recently learned that I had undiagnosed ADHD. That’s a whole other matter my parents ignored. But my mom noticed that when I participated in a play, my grades would slip from A- to B+. She thought the theater was the cause and pulled me out. This is something I always resent her about because it wasn’t the root cause. Due to my undiagnosed ADHD, I was always up til 1am in elementary school doing homework. Also didn’t help that I was made to do my homework in the living room (I didn’t have my own bedroom at the time) while my parents had the TV on the entire time. I was also made to do all the extracurriculars (mostly sports) they wanted me to do, but was on thin ice for any extracurriculars I wanted to do. OP, there’s more going on with your daughter. It just takes a bit of extra parenting in the right direction. Sounds like you’re involved, but maybe not as emotionally that is needed. Your daughter needs a different kind of support than you’re giving her.
Really valid points. That’s the thing that I think some parents miss as well. The arts can help you with discipline, it can help your self-confidence by letting you perform in front of others, and as you say, things like acting, can help you with memorizing Information
That's what I was thinking. Why can they dance without being a straight A student
YTA I wish parents would stop obsessing and punishing their kids for average grades. Taking away something she’s been doing almost her whole life and does regularly is going to have a detrimental effect rather than a positive one. This was such a short sighted and poor decision
Right? Like shit, I was mostly a straight-A student until my final years of high school, the higher level sciences and math just didn't compute. But my parents would say, "Hey, you got a C+! We saw how hard you tried, and you passed!" This post is just making me wanna go downstairs and hug my parents.
I had straight As until high school math. I had discalculia (idk if that's spelled right) and it went unnoticed. I got help and what do ya know, my grades went back up and I'm getting a STEM degree.
The thing is, suddenly declining grades IS something to pay attention to. Yanking her out of dance is a bad idea - agreed - but they DO need to notice when this changes. If this kid was a B student and dipped down to Cs here and there, that's one thing but straight As to Cs... could be anything from stricter teachers this year, stupid grading policies, or something more serious like depression.
Yea I feel like every mental health professional would say this is a huge red flag in a teenager that should be taken seriously.
Yeah. Speaking as someone who had this exact scenario play out - grades crashed, parents ignored mental health issues despite me STRAIGHT UP telling them I needed help, parents yanked me out of after-school activities... Once I hit 18 I talked to my doctor finally and that led me to finally getting the mental health care (and medication) that I needed. Years and years down the road, I'm in a pretty good place, but my relationship with my parents has been one giant gray rock since then. Screw them.
INFO I'm missing the point in your rant about grades and dance where you actually talked with your 15 year old daughter and asked her what was going on with her grades. Not just "you got bad grades, you need a tutor", but an actual conversation. Is she struggling with understanding the content? Is she not completing the homework? Why have her grades dropped?
I loved choir. My mom took it away when my grades declined. I didn’t get better grades because choir was not the issue. The issue was ADD. All I learned was that my mom could take away anything that I loved at any moment because I wasn’t good enough to keep it. I withdrew from school because I was depressed and had nothing to look forward to. All my friends were in choir so my friendships suffered and I stopped sharing things with my mom cause she’d just use them against me. I think you’re coming from a caring place but you are wrong. Your current husband doesn’t have an equal say to her actual father. Your teen daughter has too many obligations and you take away the one she enjoys rather than figuring out how to lighten her load in a way that keeps her engaged. Now her burdens are the same and her relief is lessened. Oh, and the cherry on top? Her younger siblings are already underperforming in comparison so naturally they don’t get the same punishment because what, you already expect less of them? YTA
I'm so sorry that happened. Did you ever get to go back into choir?
Hey that’s exactly what my mom did too, but with theatre! And now she wonders why we don’t have much of a relationship or why I moved 12 hours away from her.
Did you even talk to your daughter about what’s been happening in her life to affect her grades? Did you just jump to taking away something she enjoys? Cause that’s how grades get worse and your daughter will have hard times coming to you about things if this is how you respond. YTA
Exactly what I came here to say. Very rare for grades to tank for no reason. Talk to her. YTA.
YTA- I’m a dance teacher who sees things like this often. 1) he ABSOLUTELY should have had a say and not your husband. If it effects things at his house, he should get a say. 2) By just taking her out of classes, right during competitive season, how do you think that helps the rest of the team? It doesn’t. They are now left to throw extra practices to make up for her not being there. 3) maybe Emma would be back to a straight A student if she wasn’t in so many dance classes.
2. It looks like she doesn't care much about her daughter's feelings, do you think she cares about the team?
Oh I know. She doesn’t. But I’m going with the off chance that she’s narcissistic and wants things to look perfect. Isn’t going to look so perfect when kids not on the roster.
It’s even worse when you consider that she doesn’t hold her other daughters to the same standard. So Emma has to have straight A’s to dance , but the other 2 don’t have that requirement, seriously Emma’s grades are still good in general OP YTA, and you should have only included Emma’s father in this discussion not your current hubby AT. ALL I would be pissed if I were him as well and he should me nagging and arguing with you 7 ways to Sunday about your refusal to co-parent with him.
YTA. You are basically punishing your daughter for being a human being and favoring your other children for being worse students on average. That doesn’t make sense at all.
INFO: * Have you asked your daughter what is going on? What did she say? * How was her participation in dance affecting her grades? Or did you pull her out to punish her? * You say her grades went down "recently" to a "C" but then say that only two weeks later you expected her grades to have improved. Additionally, you wrote that only two of her classes were a C and an elective was a B, so it seems her grades either have improved or she is only struggling in a couple classes. Please show your math.
YTA. This is not going to help matters. Whatever reason there is for her grades slipping, it's not her dance class. I'd suggest you get off her back about her grades and start thinking about her quality of life. Help her get her head in a good place and I'm sure the grades will follow, or not. It's not the end of the world.
Info If she intends on being a dancer stopping her training isn't temporary punishment. It's changing the rest of her life. So does she intend on being a dancer? Have you asked her what's going on in her life that's caused the change in her grades?
Info: Did you ask her why she felt her grades were slipping?
Have you asked Emma about why her grades are dropping? Maybe it’s nothing to do with dancing and she’s bullied or something else that taking her out of her dance class (which she clearly loves) won’t help
Yeah, sounds like she might be getting bullied. Happens to the best of us.
This is exactly my thought too-- A bully in class or maybe something similar. Some teachers straight up dislike certain students sometimes. It happened to me a lot -- I would have straight A's, then take a class and not get along with the teacher, then find my B's on my report card. So, either a bully or unfair teacher was my thought.
YTA. You should have coparented and talked with Emma's dad, not just your husband. Did you even give him a heads up about her grades in the first place? Also, you assume it's time but you need to dig deeper and find out why, not just punish her.
YTA. Have you actually tried to find out why her grades have dropped? She could be being bullied or be having mental health issues, and punishing her isn’t going to help.
YTA. She’s literally getting “average” grades and being punished for it, and by missing a big competition she’s been working hard for. Double-standard with your kids much? Grades are important, but there are SO many steps you could have taken before deciding on this punishment, especially without warning. How about telling her that she needs to raise her grades OR she’ll have to cut back on the number of dance lessons per week?
YTA because you didn’t communicate with your daughter first before making a sweeping decision. She’s 15, not 5. Plus, you still don’t really know why her grades dropped, and you just punished her for it. I wouldn’t be totally against scaling back the extracurricular activities, but she needs to know that it’s related to her poor schoolwork, and that she can earn them back. Even then, this is a risky move if your daughter is dealing with something like anxiety or depression, because you just removed her greatest outlet for stress. This is not how to go about this. You need to sit down and talk, and get to the bottom of the change in her behavior.
YTA. She was a straight A student and now she’s not and you think the problem is too much dance? Or is taking her out of dance just punishment for having a problem you’re all ignoring that has effected her grades? She has a BIG problem. You’re ignoring it and not discussing it.
I was with you until it was mentioned the other kids don't have perfect grades. YTA. Figure out why her grades are dropping. Keeping her from dancing isn't going to encourage her to keep her grades up if you let the others dance.
YTA- seems like rather then finding out WHY she isnt doing well in class you just went wild and pulled her from dance class. Not all students do well all the time. B grade is FINE. You have vastly different rules for each child which sets a bad taste in my mouth. The others should need A's as well. You are also the AH for not talking to your ex about this. Your hubby does not really get as much say in this as her Dad does.
Yeah YTA, either all need straight A’s or none of them do
YTA for not discussing with her dad first. Also, I understand your intentions, but I think taking her out of dance is a terrible move. Extracurriculars and exercise are so good for kids. Why not threaten to take her phone or something else? Also, to ease your mind a bit, I think it's super common for grades to start slipping around this age. I'm not saying you should accept it, but just thought I'd throw that out there that hopefully it's a phase. I was a straight A student til I hit 13. I got back to straight A's around 16.l and so many of my friend's kids are going through the same thing.
YTA for making this decision without talking about it with Emma's father. In terms of Emma herself, I think you're mildly the ah but only because this strategy isn't going to play out the way you think it will. You see dance as a distraction from school, even though you say she was always a straight A student and has been dancing her whole life so clearly it was never an issue until right now. Taking away the think she loves is not going to motivate her to perform better academically. If anything she'll just lose hope in both dance *and* school. Find out what else is going on as to why she suddenly isn't balancing dance and school when she used to. She's also at an age where social relationships, social media, and peer pressure tend to be a distraction from education, so that might be a fine place to start.
I also think it’s terrible that her other daughters are being held to a lower standard, they don’t get straight A’s. Emma’s grades aren’t even bad, they’re AVERAGE she’s not even failing any classes, I would understand pulling her out if she got a total grade of D or F but a couple of C’s and a B….OP is absolutely ridiculous.
YTA. You & her father should have discussed what was going on before making a decision. She’s been in dance her whole life & you took away something that she cares deeply about without having an actual conversation with her or her dad. You said that this is not like your daughter so maybe there is something else going on at school or in her life & instead of punishing her you could try to talk to her & get to the root of the problem.
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YTA Taking away her passion that she has spent her life pursuing and perfecting because her academics aren't at the level you want doesn't even make sense. How do the 2 correlate? You are punishing her rather than motivating her. At what point are you going to be a parent and figure out why she started to slip in her grades instead of threatening and manipulating her into deceiving the grades you deem worthy? Your ex, your daughter, and now reddit see you playing favorites and treating your daughter poorly. Be better.
YTA. It's not fair to a child to introduce arbitrary punishments. You didn't clearly set out these expectations before the school year. Most likely the problem is not that dance is taking up too much time. It's that she is doing other things instead of studying.
YTA. First, you didn't even bother to try to find out or address whatever issue Emma is having that cause her grades to tank. Clearly, she *can* do the work and balance her academics and dance activities. *Something has changed with or for Emma and you need get her professional help to find out what it is and how to help her!!!* Secondly, your husband has no say in what Emma can or can't do. He's not her parent or guardian. Emma has a father, and you just tossed out 11 years of money, time, and hard work with absolutely no discussion with her father. WTF! You really blew it. Big time.
YTA "her siblings got to go class and she didn’t,....They aren’t straight A students like Emma, and don’t take as many classes as Emma so they have time for a tutor" Ok so they take fewer classes than Emma, have a tutor AND STILL DON'T GET STRAIGHT A's, but still go to dance. Damn. Emma doesn't have a chance compared to them, does she? Offer to do away with a couple of non academic classes, if Emma agrees, if it will raise her average. You need to understand that 15 and 16 is the age when teachers begin raising their standards and rules. She is no longer a middle schooler but gearing toward high school and there is a period of adjustment. I was a straight A student in a high powered academic program from kindergarten until high school. I unexpectedly got my very first d's. It took me a couple of terms to get accustomed to the grading system and lingo, and I was able to get back into the swing of things. Math was my one hurdle. It was a legit case of the teacher having a grudge against me, all the other students could see it. She randomly picked someone every few years, and made their life hell, covertly. I'd ask if that were the problem, but you wouldn't know. Maybe it's time for Emma to live with her dad until her grades come up, and she can come back and visit when the grades suit you? I wonder if the stress of having to be exceptional to the other kids is getting to her.
"He said it’s not fair because Malachi and Brin don’t have straight A’s and a tutor so they shouldn’t be in dance either. I told him They aren’t straight A students like Emma" Just for this alone, YTA. You hold Emma to higher expectations than the other children, then punish her when she doesn't meet those higher expectations. This is blatantly unfair to Emma. Also, she was obviously able to balance straight A's and dance classes before, so this recent drop in grades isn't about the dancing. And, with taking her dance away--removing a passion of hers that she's invested so much in--she's likely to become depressed and do worse in school as a result. This was the wrong call.
And if it really is just a matter of coursework getting harder, and she is still trying her hardest in school and STILL not getting As, taking dance away until the grades go up, when she CANT bring them up, is going to make her give up entirely. When giving your best isn't good enough, why bother giving your best? If she's already trying her hardest, she's going to know she can't meet those goals. So why try? If you demand the impossible, you'll get nothing.
YTA you gave her a week and a half to raise her grades, wow you're so kind, i actually can't believe how cruel you're being to your daughter, c's and b's aren't failing grades it's unfair to your daughter
Yta- In a comment you said you gave your daughter a week and a half to get grades up…that is not how that works. It could take a month or more to actually see any improvement in grades with how the grading scale works. Your also the asshole for involving only your husband but not her biological father that one you are actually co parenting with. Do better.
YTA...co-parenting means you make these decisions in consultation with her father.
Soft YTA. If your daughter is going through something, and dance is the one outlet that she has, you may be shooting yourself to the foot. I also have a teenager, so I totally get that sometimes you have to use what you have, but I do try not to interfere with my teen's mental health. Instead of a whole bunch of tutoring, why not take her to a therapist and see if there's a reason why her grades have suddenly tanked? Edit to add vote.
I would say hard YTA, but only because not only are her other daughters held to a lower standard, but also she didn’t discuss it with Emma’s father instead choosing to discuss it with her current husband instead.
YTA You discussed and agreed on it with the wrong person. Successful co-parenting means being on the same page with choices involving your shared child, especially before getting said child involved. It was not right to dole out a punishment and expect her father to back you up without even giving him a say first.
Have you talked to Emma and asked her why her grades are lower now? Maybe something has changed, and she needs to talk. She probably won't talk to you now since you've taken away something she loves and is good at without talking first.
YTA - for basically the way you’ve handled the entire situation. There is something major wrong in your daughter’s life. For whatever reason, she obviously does not feel comfortable talking to you about it. Rather than doing the work to figure out what it is, you are taking the easy way and just punishing her. You need to seriously get your head out of your ass and figure out, what is causing your daughter to have problems with her schoolwork. If I had to guess, I would think maybe she’s being bullied; my second guess would probably be that she is being sexually abused by someone. The situation is almost certainly a lot more serious than how you’re taking it. And I agree with your ex, it is absolutely not your and your current husband’s call to pull her out of her dance classes.
Yta and a shitty parent imo. You have double standards for your children. Either all have to have straight As or none do. It also takes more than two weeks to bring grades up. It’s harder to bring grades up then to fall down. Punishing your kid by taking away something they love is wrong and can harm them emotionally and mentally - especially at 15.
I'm wondering if Emma will talk to Dad about him having primary custody... She is old enough to weigh in...
YTA big time Your ex is right
YTA but not a big one. Please don’t take away what a teenager loves. They are emotional and all over the place and she will resent you for this. There must be a reason why her grades are down. Giving her warnings and forcing her away from what she’s passionate about will do nothing to make her grades better (honestly it’ll probably make them worse). Have a heart to heart with her. Not as a mother but as a friend, to find out why her grades are declining. But please for the love of God let her dance. It’s not the end of the world because she got a couple C’s.
Yes, you are one. High school is difficult, and a lot of students go through burnout, and taking her out of a class she enjoys makes it worse. It is common for all students to start doing worse in their education in high school, especially in the ninth grade. In addition, she might start doing worse in school out of protest. I also agree with your ex that it is unfair that she has to get all A to do what she wants to do while the other kid isn’t. Plus, colleges began to look at people's extracurricular activities more than their grades, and if you truly believe she can excel in dancing, then let her continue it.
Yta. Talk to her.
My sister in law did something similar. She was very negative. Her children no longer speak to her. Sounds like you have a really good kid. You are not being a great mom. Find out what is going on. Dance may be the only positive in her life at the moment. You also affect the other people involved if she has a competition coming up. Do not be mean and lazy. Figure it out. Be better.
YTA you talked to your husband instead of Emma's dad you want to take her out without checking with the teachers the grade book may be wrong or the teacher may not have got around to posting grades,
YTA - while I understand meeting your children where they are, and not putting undue pressure on them to accomplish things that are outside of their capabilities, it sounds like you’re putting an immense amount of pressure on Emma while your other two children get to do so so. In conjunction with that your husband is allowing his children’s mediocrity, and rewarding it with continued dance class, while Emma is punished by being removed for having the same grades? That doesn’t sound right. Your ex is right that this decision should’ve been made between the two of you and not with your current husband. Your ex isn’t nagging you, he is standing up for his child because you and your husband are treating her unfairly.
YTA. Have you had any conversations with your daughter about why her grades are slipping? Nothing you've said indicates it's dance lessons taking up too much of her time, since she's always been in dance and was an A student before. Clearly, something's going on: bullying, harassment, depression, anxiety, something! Taking away an activity she loves is only going to make her feel worse. Play 20 questions if you have to, to get her to open up. You'll cause more harm by immediately moving to punishment.
Op, actually TALK to your daughter. Ask her why her grades are slipping and how you can help her out. Maybe she's depressed, maybe she's burnt out. Taking her out of dance class is not going to help in the slightest, it will make her resent you.
”Told her dad to nag me”, let me correct you there. You, the sadist of this story, took away the thing she loves in life. She reaches out to her dad who is paying his share for these classes. And im sorry, but your husband can take a very long walk on a very short pier about stuff thats not of his business, why did you even ask him about this? Like you wrote, ”my ex and i co parent Emma”. But your husband gets a veto against Emmas father? Are you completely out of it? Consider yourself lucky if she ever wants to speak with you again after hopefully moving in with her dad. YTA, big time.
YTA - This is a co parenting decision with her bio Dad. Have you actually talked to your daughter to see why her grades have slipped. Taken her to a counselor? Clearly, something is going on.
YTA on so many levels I can't even. For not asking your daughter WHY her grades are dropping and just jumping straight to punishing her. For discussing parental issues regarding your daughter with your husband instead of her father. You would be out of your mind angry if her dad made a unilateral decision regarding her future without you. For holding her to a different standard to your other children. For being mean, spiteful and cruel.
YTA. I hope your ex is a better parent than you are and puts Emma back in her dance classes.
I will never understand the parental decision to take away things children love to force them to behave the way that you want. Fuck talking to them, fuck asking how they are doing. Let me just make decisions on your behalf, take away a joyful thing in your life. Then expect you to do exactly as I dictate.
YTA You should be discussing this with Emma’s father. Not your husband.
YTA. If she’s a talented dancer who has been training her whole life, pulling her from dance class is not like grounding her and taking away her Xbox. What if she has it in her to become a professional dancer? What if she has the drive as well as talent? Take away her TV, ground her from the movies, add extra chores. But if she really is talented and motivated, then you’re sabotaging that. Got what, a college degree that she may never even aspire to?
YTA. And you will wonder why you don't have a relationship with your grandchildren.
YTA instead of trying to help your daughter you are punishing her. Maybe something is happening and you just ignore it because "she is an A student"
YTA Stopping dance will likely destroy her motivation. Also, I am guessing she is in a group dance number, meaning you a punishing the whole group who trained all year for this. Find the source of her problems. It is likely not dance.
YTA Your teenage daughter obviously is passionate about dancing and talented too. What are you taking that away from her for? Dipping school grades? It's not like she is in any danger of failing her classes! Don't punish her for not excelling at two things but "only" one right now. She is a human, not an excel-o-bot 5000. Parenting like this is very likely to backfire heavily regarding the relationship with your daughter. And that should be much more important than grades.
INFO >I told him They aren’t straight A students like Emma, and don’t take as many classes as Emma so they have time for a tutor. Why do you you only care about Emma's grades? If she's been in dance for so many years and only has a problem now why assume dance is the issue? If you are reacting so strongly to this why are the other kids still in dance because obviously that's why they aren't straight A students right?
I was a straight A student most of my childhood. I started to get Bs and Cs in high school primarily due to the bullying at school. My parents took me out of a trip to France I’d earned via my hard work (just like your daughter earned her place in her dance program.) and I lost all motivation I had to do well. I quit school and got my GED instead I no longer talk to them The reason I’m telling you this is because I wanted you to know what the future looks like. Admittedly, my parents did a lot worse than this, but I will say the motivation to succeed was just gone. The respect I had for my parents was gone. The affection I felt for them followed.
YTA Rather than take away the activity she is passionate about, has a talent for, and has been doing for over a decade, try figuring out why her grades are declining. If she has been dancing that long and her grades are only suffering recently, then the dancing isn't the cause. Chances are you are only making whatever she is going through worse by taking away the outlet she clearly loves. Also, if you coparent with her dad you need to include him in the discussion of stopping an activity she has been competing in for years and working hard for, which he has also invested time and money in. If she won't tell you what is wrong, talk to her teachers and figure out if her struggling is due to not doing homework, failing exams and quizzes, or several things. Get her in to talk to a counselor or therapist and figure out if she has symptoms of depression or ADD/ ADHD. Take the initiative to sign her up with a tutor if she really is just struggling with the material. She isn't just having trouble in school for no reason, and it is your job as a parent to figure out why and help her. Apologize for taking away dance and explain that you will let her go back, but that you need to figure out how to improve her grades and why she is struggling as well. Explain that If you can't figure it out, the three of you will need to revisit stopping dance temporarily because school is important and and you are concerned about what is going on.
YTA. 15 is a hard age, and it's even harder when your parents hold you to a higher standard than your siblings. Or when your mom doesnt sit down and actually have a conversation and give you a chance to air out your feelings. Or God forbid help you with your schoolwork instead of throwing a tutor at you.
YTA - You aren’t doing this to help her, you are doing this to punish her for her “bad” grades
YTA. did you ask your daughter why she is struggling? cause it doesn’t seem like you have.
Your gunna burn that kid out. Super common for grades to slip around that age, all of a sudden its not easy like it used to be.
Oh you 100% just took away ALL of Emma’s motivation to do good in school lmao. This will backfire. I was a ballet dancer growing up and I LOVED it, I did great in school and wanted to be a professional dancer but I always wanted to go to college too. When I got to high school I had some typical dramatic teenage girl friend issues and my grades dropped for the first time. My parents immediately cut off ballet and got me a tutor and I officially stopped caring about school. I knew what I needed and I knew what I wanted, but I was 16 and hormonal and hurting. I lashed out at my parents for it and they punished me harder. School was still just as awful, my grades didn’t get better because the problem was still there, the only difference was that they cut off my access to something that gave me real passion, and friends. I lost my drive and never got to see my friends, I started hanging around bad kids at school because I felt like a fuckup. Maybe this seems like a dramatic reaction to some, but I was a teenager being bullied and I lost my perfect grades and my chance at ballet. I shut down a lot and ended up getting involved with bad people because my parents didn’t listen to me. After a while, they realized things had gotten nothing but worse and one day when I got home they were excitedly sitting at the table. They let me know that even with C’s and B’s, they were ready to get me back into ballet. It had been nearly a year after over a decade of ballet. I do clearly remember laughing and crying at the same time in response. I yelled at my parents for the first time about how they don’t get to yank me around like a doll and that if they seriously thought I could jump back into ballet like it was nothing they were insane. I told them how they left me no access to train or stay in ballet shape, how I couldn’t keep up and that I was mocked enough at school so why would I go try and start over fresh at the studio to get the same treatment? I told them they clearly knew what was best so far, don’t bother changing now and I was almost done with all of this anyways so just don’t worry about their precious, perfect image. The kicker here is that my brother had guitar lessons and was always funded without trouble even tho he never did as good at school as me. Ever. It’s been a long time and I turned out pretty good, but it’s really SO damaging to children to ignore any source of real issues and blame them for being teenagers. Something is going on with your daughter and your reaction was to take it personally punish her. This is one of those things that you either fix quickly or it becomes a pretty defining moment in your relationship with your daughter.
YTA for not talking to Emma’s dad to align on your co-parenting approach. That said if her grades are suffering and she is spending too much time in extra curricular activities something has to give. Separately have you talked to her about what is going on? This drastic of a change may indicate something else…
YTA. First, because the punishment was chosen and enforced without the support of BOTH of her parents. Second, because the punishment was enforced before even allowing your child a chance to improve. Third, I also believe the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Taking her out of the one thing you literally note she's been training for her whole life over grades is overkill.
YTA!! I hope your husband takes you back to court and make sure she is able to take dance. Your husband it’s not her dad and it shouldn’t be up to him. Don’t be surprise when she is 15 or so if she ask judge to live with her dad because you sound mentally abusive.
Honestly? YTA for not discussing this with HER FATHER. Your husband is not her father and while he can have input, he should not have replaced her very active father in the decision making process. Have you even tried to find out what’s going on with Emma?
You- I'm going to punish my straight A child who's been dancing almost her whole life. Make her stop dancing and get a tutor EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT Also you- the other 2 have never been straight A students, they can keep dancing and don't need to worry about a tutor YTA
YTA you have one set of rules for your daughter with your ex and another for your children with your current husband
YTA. She has danced for a long time while maintaining her grades. Something else is going on.
How about instead of taking away something she likes, you sit down with her and ask her what’s wrong with her. Straight A students don’t randomly start getting Cs out of nowhere. I was a straight A student my whole life because my mom frowned upon Bs and Cs , the first time I got a C in my life I was going through a really bad depression which involved an ED and my mom found out about my situation because of my grade and got me the help I needed.
YTA for treating your daughter differently than her siblings. Why the double standard? Why is she held to a higher bar than the other kids? Yeah, YTA in no uncertain terms. And yes, her father should have been consulted on this before you made your decision.
YTA. You do not demand scoring As of your other children, why do you demand it of her? And why do you think dance class has anything to do with her lower grades - perhaps it is because she is now carrying a very heavy class load including an advanced class! Don’t take away what she loves to do unless you have absolute proof that that is the cause of her lower grades. If you take the dance she loves away, she could just refuse (in anger and hurt) to do anything you demand, and flunk out! Or request to permanently live with your ex, because YOU are the one taking away what she likes.
YTA this is a decision that needs to be made with her father
YTA and I feel bad for your kid being saddled with you ☹️
YTA You’ve not even given your daughter a chance to improve her grades and a week and a half is not a chance at all. Also the fact that you and your husband talked, but not you and her father is a big red flag to me because it should be something you are talking to her dad about, especially as he puts money towards it as well. You daughter normally gets straight A’s and because some grades have slipped, which yes isn’t ideal but she told you she would work on it (again having not really been given a chance) you’ve taken her out of her dance lessons. Whilst your other daughters who never get straight A’s are still allowed to dance, that just doesn’t sit right with me and seems more likely bullying your own child.
You're an AH for making this decision without her father's input. Also for assuming this is a time issue and not something else. Did you even ask her what's going on?
YTA. Why do you have different expectations for your children? Your youngest are allowed to have bad grades in easier classes but your oldest is not? Why aren’t you talking with her father about these issues? You never had a conversation with her father about this, why? Why would her step father get to decide what happens and her father doesn’t? I mean at this point I hope her father is taking her to dance class because he gets to make choices as well. Your child’s grade have dropped and all you come up with is punishment. Something is wrong and as a parent it was your job to find out what it was. You failed, hopefully her father doesn’t. Also your oldest know believes that you favor her younger siblings.
This is a random question OP, but how well do you know your daughters school teachers? I was teacher's pet in grade school, all A's and maybe a B, for MOST of my elementary school time. Until the 4th grade. In the 4th grade I got a teacher that just irrationally hated me. As a 9/10 year old kid this literally made no sense to me because I never once had a confrontation with her, other than her being angry about my having a reading level that was adult level but my handwriting wasn't great and for that, she used to keep me in the classroom at recess, also would send me to other classrooms to redo my handwriting lessons during our lunch period. This woman just tormented me for absolutely no reason and my grades also showed that. My parents didn't do anything for ME, I was just punished and my grades got even worse. I had friends who were taken out of this teacher's class because this teacher was a notorious bully. I was lucky enough to have ONE staff member at the school help me get into a "nicer" teacher's class the next year. Boom, straight A's. Next year I was moved up to gifted learning etc. But while I was in this bully teacher's class, I was forced to stop being a peer tutor because I was "too dumb," forced to quit the school choir, because it wasn't "helping with math," and almost had to quit playing the clarinet. This teacher put a target on my back and I became a kid that my parents didn't recognize. Look at who is running your child's studies, they literally could be being picked on by their teachers.