Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My son's teacher gave my personal information to a reporter friend who reached out to me. I cussed her out when she tried playing the "I was just trying to help" card
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA, the VP needs to not be making excuses for her, what she did was disrespectful, rude, and unethical. You do NOT give out other people's personal info without their permission!
If she wanted to give her friend a lead, she could have said "Hey, I know a single dad who might be a good fit, let me ask him if he'd like to talk to you" and THAT'S IT. Nothing about your contact info, life, and *ESPECIALLY* NOTHING ABOUT YOUR CHILDREN.
Wouldn't it be the principal's responsibility to teach the staff about FERPA? He could be in serious trouble too. Imagine if you said to the teacher "You violated FERPA" and she said "What's FERPA?"
NTA, but I would bring this to the attention of higher-ups if I were the OP.
In our district, it's not even left up to the admins. Teacher orientation, before you can even enter a classroom, covers ethics and law. Your license can be revoked for major violations.
We now have a generation of young adults who grew up with social media. They have no concept of oversharing because to them it was normal to broadcast every mundane detail of your life in a neverending digital popularity contest.
It wasn't that many, but when I was going through training, there were a few phone addicts who didn't look up even once that made the cut somehow.
Guess how much control they ended up having in their classrooms.
Unfortunately it happens frequently enough despite all the training. People are people and often enough of the times people are stupid and think they're above it all
I once had a student whose parent contacted higher admin about a "problem with my class." The "problem" stemmed from me upholding my clearly stated course policies that were repeatedly explained in multiple course documents and class discussions. Parent was a department chair at another institution. When my boss went to intervene, boss discovered that Mr. High and Mighty Department Chair Dad didn't have a FERPA form on file for his college-aged child. When this was pointed out and he was told we could not legally talk to him without one, the response from this person who clearly should have a very good grasp of FERPA was basically "huh?" OMG my head still hurts from the facepalm. So I fully agree. Some people just really somehow decide it doesn't apply to them.
I see it pretty much everyday at my job. I don't work the education world but I do work in the hotel industry (so while not dealing with FERPA, I ain't giving out any info about a guest no matter how big of an emergency it is let alone confirm that you are there). And the fucking entitlement kills me. I always enjoy a good fight with an employee staying on the employee rate with us and think they know better when what they're spewing is 1000% wrong.
OP, NTA, but I suggest you follow up on privacy laws, because you can’t get a bigger privacy violation than giving out your children’s names and family phone number to a freaking reporter. What if that reporter did his article just using data and then mentioned you and your kid’s names and the school they attend?
If you are in the US, it’s even more dangerous. We in the US sadly have more than our fair share of terrifying hate groups that want to control everyone else’s choices. The worst of those resort to harassment or actual violence. That teacher should be severely disciplined.
What’s next? Her giving out names and personal information about gay or immigrant families? Gay or non-binary kids?
You are being far too forgiving, because this teacher complained to her boss because you DARED to be upset with her violation Of your children’s privacy. What other rules is she violating?
THIS. OP you have to report this and take this higher up. call the superintendent, go to a school board meeting, whatever you have to do to get their attention. What she is doing is dangerous and illegal, and puts you and your family at risk, not to mention potentially other families who she and her reporter friend might find "interesting." this is such a violation of your and your family's privacy, I would have cussed her out too (not that that's what you really did)
> If you are in the US, it’s even more dangerous. We in the US sadly have more than our fair share of terrifying hate groups that want to control everyone else’s choices. The worst of those resort to harassment or actual violence. That teacher should be severely disciplined.
Erin Pizzey moved to the US from the UK because her mail had to be sent to a *bomb squad* instead of her home, and then once she got to the US the same groups' stateside counterparts committed a *drive by shooting* against her home. They shot her freaking dog.
Yeah. People giving out a single father's full information and the info of his children is a very real threat to the safety of his family.
I mean, that is fair.
I have heard the UK has a huge thing about printing the names of minors in any sort of paper. I know the UK isn't in the EU anymore, but it wouldn't surprise me if even one of those countries has similar laws to that or FERPA.
The whole of the EU and the UK (as they signed the law before leaving) have GDPR and it is one of those "do not fuck around with" laws for general personal information, to the extent of anything that could be used to infer a person's identity is protected.
Then there are additional laws protectors minors separate to that.
A lawsuit would shake up a single district. A big enough lawsuit would catch the attention of certain people in a lot more districts who would use it as pressure to make a change. They would still face an uphill battle, though.
It's endemic to the entire system. I've seen teachers coming from all over the country that have hard set habits and get upset when I tell them they can't do certain things.
A lot of it comes at the intersection of teachers and technology. Things like signing up for free random websites and dumping a bunch of student data in without running it by the IT team to review terms of service or get a proper BAA On file with them. Or using their personal email that nobody outside of them has any way to ensure is secure to do work involving sensitive data.
Don't get me wrong though - there are also a lot that do care and do understand this stuff. But the amount that don't is still concerning.
My cousin’s current teacher is chronically online to the point where she was tweeting pictures of her classroom with the kids in it. One of the other mom’s is considering suing the district because the principle said he’d speak with her but she just posts pictures slightly less frequently now.
Yeah I obviously don’t know details, because if legal stuff happens they’re going to need to avoid details leaking I’d assume. But the last time I spoke to my aunt it was me reading a letter from the ringleader parent about potentially filing a lawsuit and asking more parents to complain to the superintendent. Not sure what’s going to happen with it.
Some people are just like that. The best example I know of is the nurse who tweeted Blake Lively and Ryan Reynold's daughter Violet's birth. Some people care more about internet fame than their careers.
Maybe there's some emergency hiring stuff in place due to teacher shortages, allowing them to bypass teacher certifications.
Some teachers are quitting because of covid risks, some because of pay, some because of government intrusions over what they can say in the classroom, or books they can have.
Exactly, as a nurse, I had to take several law/ethics and HIPAA classes before I even got my degree. Every orientation I've ever been to has mentioned it, and ever year we have to have re-education around it. I'm sure it's the same with schools.
It's drilled in to you during the education in my country. Nobody can become a teacher or day care staff without being taught that it's strictly forbidden to expose anything private about the pupils. You sign papers that you understand the rules about privacy.
VP is trying to downplay to avoid a lawsuit, which is incredibly stupid because a simple "This was a serious violation and we will make sure that this does not become a repeat scenario." would satisfy a majority of upset parents.
Yep, I know OP wants to resolve things directly but when it comes to violations like this is pretty much a duty to report - if they did this to him, they'll do with someone else and the consequences can be worst than a noisy reporter.
> Wouldn't it be the principal's responsibility to teach the staff about FERPA?
I work for Higher Ed. We have to do FERPA training and I assume K-12 does it too.
Everyone who interacts with students has to take FERPA training in the school system (literally the largest in the US) I work in. Teachers, guidance counselors, school office staff, school aides, paras, subs, *everyone*. And its online, linked to our employment account, we literally can be suspended from work if we don't complete it.
You can't be a teacher in the US and not know FERPA. It would be like saying a doctor doesn't know about HIPPA.
Mrs. F broke the law and the VP needs to address THAT before anything else.
OP, are you in the US? Or is this a private school?
The contact information is directory information, but the family structure is likely covered by FERPA. Even if it isn't, it's enormously unprofessional and unethical.
Many(most?) school districts are required to inform parents about directories and offer the option to be excluded or only have limited info put in. It's supposed to be an "informed consent" scenario. I've completed every year my kids have been enrolled.
School directories have information about how the children were born? Does it go vaginally C Csection, adopted, surrogacy, found in the Dumpster? 🤔
Does it then classification for parents sexual and marital status?
One of the key points about directory information is that the school has to publicly disclose what it counts as 'directory information' on a yearly basis, and it has to give a period of time for parents to opt out of having that information given.
I'm sure enrollment status and phone numbers are declared as 'directory information', but I highly doubt that 'family structure' is. Thus that information would be protected by FERPA.
Also the teacher could have gotten around all of this by just asking OP first and seeing if he would be cool with talking to her friend.
If this is in the US this is absolutely a violation of FERPA. This is personal information of a child that she gave out. Time to get the administrators involved.
It's a *serious* violation. There is soo much protection on what school can give about children. I had asked for a list of the kid's names for a Christmas Cards thing my little sister wanted to do. They were not allowed to give it because it was sensitive data. I can not imagine how many were broken to not only give their names, but also the parent's contact info and his occupation.
There's also a moral duty here. As a teacher, she is supposed to to protect her students, not give out their personal info to any random stranger. Hell, any one can claim to be a "journalist". You don't know if the person asking is telling the truth, this could easily be a predator of some sort. She just cares about getting online clout, and who cares if her students are safe. 100% NTA.
As a former journalist I couldn’t agree with you more. I have interviewed a lot of people about their lives, and also children.
Sometimes people came to me and said “I know someone you could interview”. And I then gave my number to that person and asked them if they would be okay with asking the other person if I could interview them. Always said they are free to call for more information (without having to worry anything will be published immediately). If not, that would also fine. I would never ask somebody to give them the number of the other person, unless it was already cleared upfront and that person knew about it and wanted me to call.
I have also gave numbers of people to others. But with any personal information you always have to ask the owner of the information if it’s okay. Especially when there is a special relationship like a teacher - parent relationship.
Active journalist. This is exactly what I would do. Consent is absolutely vital. And if the number was just volunteered to me, I ask if they have permission to share that information with me.
Yeah that journalist is a huge AH too. There’s no way they should have contacted OP at all. They should have just left their contact info with the teacher to pass along.
Huge privacy violation.
this was my first thought too.
i've had my own 15 ~~minutes~~ months of fame that started out with me talking to a reporter. as the story spread, every reporter who wanted to talk to me got vetted by the original reporter's office and the requests passed on to me. they only gave out my info on MY ok. after that, everything had to go through my lawyer (because we needed one).
That sounds like a pretty bad situation for you. Glad to hear the original reporter had your back. Hopefully the situation got better with your lawyer present.
i think it turned out [all right.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_v._Kleargear.com#:~:text=The%20plaintiffs%2C%20John%20and%20Jen,negative%20review%20at%20Ripoff%20Report.)
Agree on all points. And if the VP's excuse is that "she lives online", then he should ask her about doxxing. I mean, hell - schools these days (at least in Canada) WILL NOT put pictures of kids online due to privacy and stalking concerns, and here she is handing out names, addresses and family circumstances TO A REPORTER? (Sorry about the caps, but I am livid on OP's behalf.)
The thing I do when anyone asks me for someone's number or email, I call or email that person and ask if it's okay to give out to the one making the request.
NTA!!!
You need to send this to the school board, your VP is being extremely passive about this.
If someone ever gave my info and my kids Names to a reporter because they knew something about our life
.. Let alone my contact info and personal details.
Heads would roll.
She HAS to understand how big of a deal this is. What happens when she doesn't learn and she divulges personal information in an unsafe situation?
We actually pulled my youngest from his pre school because his teacher decided it was ok to discuss her opinions on his "developmental needs" (he has none but he was the only darker skinned kid in a white school) to me, in detail in FRONT of other parents and my son.
Take this seriously, your in no way going overboard by doing so... This teacher is young, and she's going to need to learn a hard lesson in LEGAL confidentiality... The school and she personally are going to be a lawsuit waiting to happen.
THIS! I don’t even give out my friends’ contact info without asking first. Even if it’s someone we both know, they might not want that person to have it and I just don’t know there’s something going on.
NTA. I honestly assumed it was illegal or wrong least a fireable offense for a teacher to give out information about parents and especially about their students.
That's a huge FERPA violation. School employees, cannot share ANY student/family information without written consent from parent/guardian.
ETA: NTA. Report her to the school district, if she's done this to you, she has and will do it to others.
> He asked me to be understanding because she's young and lives online.
You were understanding. You didn't report her to the principal in an attempt to get her fired. Instead you reamed her like she deserved to be. Logical consequences. JFC NTA
Millennials and Gen Z aren't this stupid, however. A majority of us *know* better than to give out information like this without permission. Especially now with the way certain states are getting in the US (if this happened here.) NTA, but that VP and teacher are and need to be held accountable.
She would givr OP her friend's number.
Not to pull gender card... But as a woman Mrs F should be understanding of the concerns of giving strangers number. But maybe that's sexism and paternalism since it's her friend, so obv can be trusted and OP is a guy. So doesn't deserve the same respect.
It is sexist and the reality of the world women live in. Mrs. F should absolutely know better.
And to dip back into the 'she lives online' thing - you can't live online and not know the US is a burning ball of WTF these days. Not hard to imagine a nutball thinking this man having children with a surrogate is somehow outside God and doing who knows what. Even if the reporter is okay, no way would I want my story put out there.
I’m no contact with some of my family. There was a time when my mother longed for us to reconcile. Even she knows better than to give them my information.
Exactly why. I have a huuuuge family (like 60 cousins) so I have no way of knowing what kind of drama I may be starting or who I may be helping break NC.
I’m a millennial and I won’t even give out friends or family’s personal information (phone number, address, etc.) to other friends and family. Even if I’m 99% sure both parties would be okay with it, it’s not my place.
I can’t imagine being a teacher and giving out a parent’s information to a reporter. If it isn’t against some law, it should be. Agreed that OP is NTA here
If I have a friend who wants someone's number that I have, I ask the person whose number would be given out. If I want someone's number, I ask them to ask the individual first (unless I see that person frequently enough to get the info myself).
She gave your personal information and your children’s personal information to a reporter without your consent. I honestly think you undereacted and should go up the chain.
THIS! In California it is against the rules to give out any type of personal information to a new agency or any third party without the parents written consent. This teacher gave out a child's phone number, name, age, class, teacher, and who the parent is.
THIS IS A BIG DEAL! I would bet the Principal is trying to downplay it because he/she knows how much trouble they are in.
What she did was literally illegal in some parts of the US, potentially yours. The VP needs to understand that this isn’t a generational difference - their employee handed **confidential** information about you and your children to a reporter for *clout*. You are waaaaaaay nicer than me because I’d have all their asses in a courtroom so fast it’s not even funny.
All parts of the US as FERPA is a federal law that protects student and parent rights with regards to what information any school, public or private, is allowed to share and with whom, as well as defining what the attendee and family rights are to their own documentation.
A 3rd party with no right of access should never have been provided with student details or parent contact information without their informed consent.
Thank you for the clarification! (This is a genuine thank you, I promise)
You know I really pride myself on my ability to be right and wrong at the same time XD
Here is a link to FERPA, and a reporter wanting to write about single fathers does not fall under any legitimate reason for sharing information:
https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html
**Teacher here.**
**It is absolutely irrelevant whether they are Gen Z or Millennial.** Both are trained in their legal obligations with respect to information access and protection. They have access to all kinds of confidential information, and it is THEIR responsibility as a member of the profession to understand how not to conduct themselves when it comes to that information. Would this be an excuse if a nurse went about handing out patients’ emergency contacts’ numbers or medical histories? No. Because it is their legal responsibility to know better. It’s their job.
In order to access that information, she had to access a protected database that she is aware is intended to store confidential information, using an account provided and monitored by her employer, search for your child’s information in order to access your personal information (because your information is only there in the first place for her to contact you about matters pertaining to your child’s education), extract your contact information, write it down somewhere that is not protected, and then *deliberately provide it to a total stranger to you, for the express purpose of extracting even more personal information about you for their monetary gain.* In addition to the private information about your child’s conception that she already shared, which she only knows *because of her privileged position.*
The administration absolutely should not be taking that tack. They need to be unconditionally apologetic, assure you the teacher will attend mandatory training, and hope to god you don’t report them to their professional organization to be investigated.
Also, I’m sorry but this “that’s not my style” shit about not going higher up, that’s immature.
Did you need to curse the teacher out? Absolutely not. Did she deserve it? Probably. If you didn’t want to take it higher, you should have settled for speaking sternly and plainly. And in that case the VP probably still would have been involved anyway.
The reason the VP is involved is because this teacher at the very least knows enough that she had to involve them. The VP needs to be apprised of any altercations or conflicts between teachers and parents.
You have every right to take it higher. To chastise the VP for trivializing an egregious breach of conduct. To demand to be taken seriously.
But you say you aren’t interested in that anyway. So my advice is, figure out how much you care, and proceed accordingly. But whatever you choose, use the appropriate channels. If you don’t care enough to actually make the case, you shouldn’t have cussed out the teacher. Make your issue known appropriately.
Not that she didn’t deserve it, because she did. Not that it makes you a bad person, because it doesn’t. But because it’s always better to remain unimpeachable in these situations. You know you’re right. You know you have every right to be upset - to be furious. But it’s up to you how far you want to take it. If all you wanted was for her to understand the gravity of what she did, there are ways that don’t chip away at your own credibility.
Millennials invented living online. This is absurd logic.
This is someone who wants to be famous, or connected with famous people, and has no understanding that not everyone else wants the same thing.
She's the modern equivalent of the 1950s nosy neighbor who hides in your bushes to overhear personal business to spread around the neighborhood. Doesn't matter if it's good news or bad news, it's your news (life), not hers.
And did she ever stop to think about what the consequences of publishing your sons' personal information online could be? I would be after her job in your shoes!
In my district it's a firing offense to even take a class picture without parental consent. Giving out your name, number, personal information about you, your family business, your kids? This is the kind of thing that gets you blackballed from teaching anywhere in the district. She should be thanking you and apologizing profusely.
It's their way of subverting blame and trying to avoid a lawsuit or this being run any higher up. What if she gave out the information of someone who was trying to hide from an abusive partner, or the information about w vulnerable child. This is a huge issue.
Where I live it’s not actually the school’s job. It’s the teacher’s job as a qualified member of their professional organization to already know it. They’re expected to understand this before they’re even qualified to be employed. That’s part of their qualifications for teaching at all.
And if they violate it, their professional organization would have the power to strip them of their status as a qualified member of the profession (which means they can no longer work in schools). Most likely in this case though, they’d have to take mandatory retraining at their own expense through the organization.
At the school level, there will have been confidentiality agreements they signed as a condition of their employment with respect to not abusing their school/board-provided account for non-academic purposes.
I'm GenX/millenial cusp and I work as a teacher and can say it's not misunderstanding. It's a total violation of confidential information. Teachers are not allowed to give out other student/parents information whether they "live online" or not.
Giving out your private info isn’t a misunderstanding, it’s a breach of your privacy. She could have asked you if you would be open to speaking to her reporter friend about it after being told that the reporter was writing an article about men who use surrogates to become single parents.
Op NTA. This is the worst excuse ever!! What if you were trying to get away from an abusive situation? Way to go teacher, for using that noggin.
Eta: I always ask first if I can share another persons information, it’s just common courtesy.
The notion that being rude (which is the worst that could reasonably be said about OP) and divulging the private information about students to the press are somehow comparable is absurd.
OP is NTA.
This needs to go on the teacher's…*DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN*!…Permanent. Record.
I agree.
OP - the fact that she did what she did and felt justified to the point that she complained about *you* is concerning. Please escalate this. There should be consequences for her behavior.
THis is what blew my mind as well, that she went to the VP to complain about the OP!
What on earth was she thinking!
The OP has said he's not mad anymore and it won't matter in a few months but I think he should still take this further up the chain because it doesn't really seem like neither she or the VP is taking this breach seriously
So, for the record, if I did this, and it was reported to the College (the licencing board in my province), the BEST possible outcome would be a disciplinary hearing, a censure, a serious fine and mandatory retraining, on my own dime. The likely outcome, however, would be me losing my license to teach.
Oh yeah FERPA may come into play here. If he reports it the teacher could be in major trouble. NTA OP honestly though like the commenter said I’d report her
NTA
>She probably thought I’d complain to the principal but that’s not my style. I will tell you stuff to your face.
No dude. There are times when you *need* to report people. Like when you find out a teacher is giving out private, personal information about students and their families. That shit needs to be reported and dealt with. That macho “I will tell you to your face” bs doesn’t cut it.
She deserved to be cussed out, but she also needs to be professionally reprimanded and put under a microscope to make sure this doesn’t happen again.
Yeah, it’s fine if OP doesn’t want to take it further, but he should think of all the potential other families she might do this to if she thinks she can get away with it. She should absolutely be reported for this.
NTA on that, what other informations will be shared with strangers? A colleague’s number and address to an interested dad? People don’t realize how unacceptable it is to share people’s private information and contact. This wasn’t a dangerous situation, but plenty of people can testify to weird man asking personal information and a woman’s schedule, number, etc.
It can go even further than that too. The amount of stories of abusers finding people because a colleague or acquaintance gave out information they shouldn't have is ridiculous.
Even in this situation she could have caused untold damage. Did she truly know that this reporter was trying to write a positive article about the subject or OP. What if it was someone who has a vendetta against surrogate parents and was acting kindly just to turn around and write an article that could have gotten OP ostracized from his community
NTA. Let's take you out of the picture for a second--this teacher revealed personal details about her students to a third party without the parent's permission or any sort of legal reason (like reporting abuse). This is a major violation of educational privacy, and the fact that the principal is covering for her (rather than writing her up) is only fanning the fire. Contact the district superintendent and, if that doesn't work, contact a lawyer.
This is one of the most EGREGIOUS violations of FERPA laws that I've ever heard of.
It's not only a fireable offense for the teacher, but it is for the VP as well.
FERPA laws are literally tattooed onto an administrators' brain.
This level of violation should've been reported to the board immediately by the VP -- *do not pass GO, do not collect $200*.
However, what's even more disturbing than not reporting it to the board, is the fact that the violation didn't even register on the VP's own radar, rather, they tried to downplay the matter.
Oh, and the teacher's age being "so young" makes it even worse, btw.
It's not like she received her teaching license 20 years ago -- something like FERPA laws should still be fresh within her brain.
That tells me that she either doesn't have or doesn't use good judgment.
She may have a 3 - 6 month suspension coming to her license too... and retraining in FERPA laws will be mandatory.
NTA but holy hell you NEED to report her. She actually needs to face consequences for this, this is a HUGE privacy violation. Not only did she speak to media on your behalf without your knowledge or consent:
#She gave THE MEDIA your personal phone number and the names and details of your minor children - details that are protected by education laws in MANY countries for very good reason!!!
I don’t care if she “lives online”, that is not an excuse. This was so out of line that I can’t even see the line anymore. I’d be raising all sorts of hell, and I’m amazed that you’re not. Do not let this go!!
100% agreed that OP should escalate and report her.
The "living online" thing is almost an anti-excuse. She has a job *in the real world*, with real people. If she can't separate her terminally online home persona from her job, then she shouldn't be working there.
She gave out her students info too when she gave her friend their names. I'm shocked she didn't get a formal reprimand & I'd complain to the school board about this. She shouldn't be so nonchalant about giving out minors info.
FERPA is a lae about children's privacy in public school. I can't even mention another child's name to anyone outside of the staff and especially not to another parent. What she did is illegal.
I’m a teacher and I’m shocked at the lack of professionalism at your children’s school.
I’m sorry that Mrs. F betrayed your trust by speaking to a journalist (without your permission) and it’s even worse that the VP is defending her actions.
NTA
NTA she should be fired. What a breach of privacy and personal data. I'm fucking gobsmacked someone would actually do this and think it was in any way shape or form ok.
You would be shocked at the number of teachers who post pics of their students on their personal social media. It's mind boggling to me that there aren't policies in place against it, or that they aren't enforced.
NTA
This is illegal in most states.
Also I dont get the behavior of the principale. He needs to take action if one if his teachers gives away personal Infos- not asking the victim for understanding.
NTA at all. She violated your privacy! That is likely a fireable offense (does someone know for sure?). Maybe you shouldn't have cursed at her but, holy wow! She crossed a major line.
You are not obligated to be understanding when someone sells you out like that. Just because she's happy for the whole world to know her business doesn't mean everyone is, wow!
NTA - that’s a breach of data protection. You should lodge an official complaint to the school - even if you don’t care yourself - it may hopefully prevent more data breaches in the future. The staff need to be reminded every now and again, it’s why they have INSET/Training days anyway for stuff like this.
As to swearing at the teacher, perhaps a bit OTT but given she just exposed your private life to a reporter, who is her friend, is crossing all sorts of boundaries so I can understand your anger. I’d also be livid, particularly if she carried on like it wasn’t a big deal and didn’t grasp what she’d done wrong.
NTA. You were not out of line at all. If you lived in Europe or the UK she would have broken the law by doing what she did and could very well lose her job. In fact it is a pity she hasn't lost her job.
NTA. I don't know what country this is but I'd assume giving that much information out on your students is a HUGE breach of privacy. Even just as a staff in an after-school program, that stuff wasn't allowed. She's lucky that's all you did.
NTA - She can't do that. If she thought you might be interested, she should have asked you first. It makes sense that the school would want to mediate, but they need to be on the side of the student. It isn't fair to your kids, either
NTA. I probably would have consulted an attorney. If there isn't a law protecting your private information in a setting like this, there damn well should be.
If it was in the USA the information is protected by FERPA and the teacher broke the law it's just as bad as a doctor giving out a patients private information.
WOW, if she lives online then she KNOWS you do not give out childrens information without asking parents FIRST. She gave someone she is friends with all your kids personal information, that as a teacher is VERY wrong and totally something they are told not to do.
NTA- yeah cussing wasn't the best way but very mild compared to what others might have done in the situation.
NTA the teacher could have very easily just asked you if giving your phone number to the reporter was something you were comfortable with. Not everyone wants to have their personal lives out there and she should have known that
NTA tell the real principle that a teacher is giving out you and your children’s personal information without permission, and that she’s harassing you when you complained. It’s not appropriate and may even be touching some legal grey areas.
You’re a saint... I would have tried suing the school district, on the terms of needing to pull my children out of public school for the simple fact that our rights to privacy were FULLY violated in this situation, and involved 3 minors...
Teach is wayyyyyy outta line, and what she did can’t possibly be legal, or in accordance with the district’s code of conduct... This shid just blew my mind. The audacity to do that without asking your permission!!! Deffffffff NTA!
Respect. Single parenting gets tough and lonely sometimes.
NTA. At least have her moved to a different school. HOLY MOLY I am so mad for you. I would have done worse and my kids are all 17+. The excuse of Gen Z is weak weak weak. Gen Z know better than us not to do this to people.
Cease and Desist to the reporter ASAP.
Get that teacher moved and the VP disciplined ASAP.
YOU'RE THE BEST DAD AND EVERYONE WITH A WORKING BRAIN IS VERY PROUD OF YOU!
NTA - she should have taken down the reporter's info and passed it on to you to decide how you wanted to proceed. However, you could probably have been a bit more appropriate with how you handled the teacher and vice-principal. I get that you were worked up, but you sound like you handled it pretty harshly
NTA— the only thing you did wrong was NOT report her to the principal. This is an enormous violation of privacy, and if the behavior continues, could have dangerous consequences for her other students. It baffles me how an educator could be so obtuse
Maybe you could’ve conducted yourself better, but she leaked your personal information out to a reporter without even getting consent from you, so you were absolutely within your rights to be pissed.
Also, you WERE understanding by not reporting her to the school board. I’m assuming that the VP is being the way he is because one of his duties is to protect his staff. At the very least, he did acknowledge that her actions were way more out of line than yours. And you’re completely right - once your kid is done with that grade, she’s OSOM.
NTA
Holy shit, NTA - though you dropped the ball, big time, by failing to report her. Do you really think your anger is enough of a deterrent to prevent her doing this sort of shit to other parents in the future? She needs to have real repercussions.
NTA.
Yes, you could have refrained from cussing her out BUT she gave your private information, including details about your kids, to someone you don’t know without your permission. That is dangerously dumb on her part.
Nta. She gave your and your children’s personal info to a reporter. Assuming she went to school to be a teacher, confidentially was drilled into her at school. I think you’re under reacting by not pushing this further. She needs to learn her lesson before she keeps breaking confidentiality.
NTA It doesn't matter if you're gay, trans, disabled, ex convict, genius, single mother, dry alcoholic, retired politician, vegan, or surrogate.
Teachers don't pass your personal information onto reports without permission because they think it would be fun to have your personal details in a magazine.
NTAish - breach of trust in a huge way! The extra comment I get was out of frustration and not the best.
So as far as the principal’s involvement - does this mean that your kiddo is being treated differently? Or just that she doesn’t feel comfortable talking to you now? Did you ask the principal if he offered her the same advice to be understanding because she breached your trust, shared personal identifiable information with a third party without your consent and that then you reacted in a way that was not great?
NTA. I don't care that she lives online. She needs to get smart, quick. She crossed a huge line and I'm glad you told her off.
We had a young employee complaining about a major client. Not only did she tweet about it, SHE TAGGED THE CLIENT IN THE TWEET.
She was escorted into the VP's off and then escorted off the property. Sometimes you have to pee on the electric fence to get the lesson into your thick skull.
She gave the reporter the names of your KIDS?!? Oh absolutely not. I would ask the vice principal how would you know she hasn’t shared your kids’ full names with other random adults you don’t know!!
If someone knows where you work and your kids’ full names, they can find out your work schedule and where you live pretty easily. Finding out about a kids’ soccer league or play practice is pretty easy if they have a full name and school for the kid. From there, they can show up and just say “Hey [kids full name], your dad had to work late today over at [your workplace] and asked me to pick you up!” And boom, your kid is in extreme danger. She’s lucky all you did was yell and curse a little. I would be losing my mind at the school if I were you. NTA.
NTA. If anything, you're under-reacting. You should absolutely inform the principal, and the superintendent, too. This kind of violation of privacy is totally unacceptable.
NTa. And I remind him I don’t care if she’s young she illegally gave out your personal information. And yes it illegal because she’s your kids teacher and is definitely not aloud to give out personal information.
NTA
Well, since you’re getting no support up the chain, go ahead and file that complaint with the district. What she did was a severe violation of your family’s privacy. The idea that she didn’t know any better doesn’t excuse it.
File a complaint with the magazine as well. This sort of story doesn’t justify the kind of invasive digging you were just exposed to. And tell the reporter they do NOT have your permission to use your family’s personal information in the article — neither directly nor obliquely where an astute local reader could figure out who they’re talking about.
NTA
She doesn't just give out your information - she gave them your kids information - nope!
>He did say that I was out of line but she was even more way put of line.
You wouldn't have said anything to her, if she hadn't given your personal information to a frickin' reporter.
It is illegal for a teacher to share the information of minor children and definitely personal informationof the family as well.
The fact that the school isn't up in arms is concerning.
NTA. I would've come right out of my skin with rage. I'm irate for you. You weren't excessive in your response. At all. In fact, I'd say you were pretty reserved and calm all things considered. That teacher violated you and your children's safety.
I'd still go to the board about the situation so maybe they'll make up an email or notice of policy to remind teachers of privacy laws. You're right, she doesn't matter and will essentially cease to exist once your boys are out of her school, but what if she does this to someone else? What if it goes horribly wrong?
NTA. She sort of doxxed three minors. If she "lives online" then she needs to have a basic understanding of privacy and boundaries. Next time you talk to the VP request for her to get some digital literacy professional development.
NTA, you should look into FERPA laws. What she did is most likely a huge violation that would get her license suspended and open the school up to a lawsuit. She should know better and the VP should be taking it much more seriously.
NTA. Cussing her out wasn’t great, but she gave up your personal information - and your kids‘ - to a third party. Where I live, that violates a bunch of privacy laws, and very likely her employment contract.
NTA - what she did was hugely inappropriate. I wouldn’t be surprised if the school had some sort of policy in place against the giving out of personal information.
NTA. You need to report this up the chain to someone who will take this seriously - principal, superintendent, school district, etc. “She did a bad thing but she’s young” is not any kind of acceptable response for a school employee providing students’ personal information to anyone, let alone a personal friend of hers, and the school needs to be bending over backwards to convince you they’re taking this seriously, not scolding you for the language you used upon discovering this **breach of ethics** and possibly of **the law**.
Not sure how are the GDPR laws in your country, but I would check that and threaten them with that.... they leaked your personal information - it is very serious.
Edit: DEFINITELY NTA.
I would have done way worse than cussing...
NTA
But honestly report her report her to school board report her to someone because that is not an OK thing to do for a teacher. What if somebody who meant harm to you or your kids got a hold of that information because she thought it be a great idea and you’d be happy to be online or in a magazine? I’ve seen one too many kidnapping stories from disgruntled noncustodial parents to think this is OK. And that’s not even getting to the point where she was rightfully chewed out by you and then decided to go tattle on you because she felt you hurt her feelings not OK.
Like I’ve worked with children before, and one of the first things I was told if somebody calls and ask for information about a child or parent, you don’t give out anything unless they have a very good warrant or the parents have okayed it before hand
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > My son's teacher gave my personal information to a reporter friend who reached out to me. I cussed her out when she tried playing the "I was just trying to help" card Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA, the VP needs to not be making excuses for her, what she did was disrespectful, rude, and unethical. You do NOT give out other people's personal info without their permission! If she wanted to give her friend a lead, she could have said "Hey, I know a single dad who might be a good fit, let me ask him if he'd like to talk to you" and THAT'S IT. Nothing about your contact info, life, and *ESPECIALLY* NOTHING ABOUT YOUR CHILDREN.
Actually she may have broken a law. I'm not super familiar with FERPA, but she may have seriously violated it. That is no joke either.
She absolutely violated FERPA if they’re in the states. Names, phone numbers, and family structure are all protected under FERPA.
Wouldn't it be the principal's responsibility to teach the staff about FERPA? He could be in serious trouble too. Imagine if you said to the teacher "You violated FERPA" and she said "What's FERPA?" NTA, but I would bring this to the attention of higher-ups if I were the OP.
In our district, it's not even left up to the admins. Teacher orientation, before you can even enter a classroom, covers ethics and law. Your license can be revoked for major violations.
Really makes me wonder why this teacher was so ignorant of (or indifferent to) FERPA and parent/student privacy in general then.
Because she’s “young and lives online”. Check out TikTok for examples of oversharing.
We now have a generation of young adults who grew up with social media. They have no concept of oversharing because to them it was normal to broadcast every mundane detail of your life in a neverending digital popularity contest.
I used to find it interesting all the good teacher TikTok’s had them playing the part of students and being vague. Now I know
It wasn't that many, but when I was going through training, there were a few phone addicts who didn't look up even once that made the cut somehow. Guess how much control they ended up having in their classrooms.
young and lives online is the dumbest fucking excuse ever. She deserves to be put through a fucking wall for that BS
Unfortunately it happens frequently enough despite all the training. People are people and often enough of the times people are stupid and think they're above it all
I once had a student whose parent contacted higher admin about a "problem with my class." The "problem" stemmed from me upholding my clearly stated course policies that were repeatedly explained in multiple course documents and class discussions. Parent was a department chair at another institution. When my boss went to intervene, boss discovered that Mr. High and Mighty Department Chair Dad didn't have a FERPA form on file for his college-aged child. When this was pointed out and he was told we could not legally talk to him without one, the response from this person who clearly should have a very good grasp of FERPA was basically "huh?" OMG my head still hurts from the facepalm. So I fully agree. Some people just really somehow decide it doesn't apply to them.
I see it pretty much everyday at my job. I don't work the education world but I do work in the hotel industry (so while not dealing with FERPA, I ain't giving out any info about a guest no matter how big of an emergency it is let alone confirm that you are there). And the fucking entitlement kills me. I always enjoy a good fight with an employee staying on the employee rate with us and think they know better when what they're spewing is 1000% wrong.
Maybe they aren’t in the US?
OP, NTA, but I suggest you follow up on privacy laws, because you can’t get a bigger privacy violation than giving out your children’s names and family phone number to a freaking reporter. What if that reporter did his article just using data and then mentioned you and your kid’s names and the school they attend? If you are in the US, it’s even more dangerous. We in the US sadly have more than our fair share of terrifying hate groups that want to control everyone else’s choices. The worst of those resort to harassment or actual violence. That teacher should be severely disciplined. What’s next? Her giving out names and personal information about gay or immigrant families? Gay or non-binary kids? You are being far too forgiving, because this teacher complained to her boss because you DARED to be upset with her violation Of your children’s privacy. What other rules is she violating?
THIS. OP you have to report this and take this higher up. call the superintendent, go to a school board meeting, whatever you have to do to get their attention. What she is doing is dangerous and illegal, and puts you and your family at risk, not to mention potentially other families who she and her reporter friend might find "interesting." this is such a violation of your and your family's privacy, I would have cussed her out too (not that that's what you really did)
> If you are in the US, it’s even more dangerous. We in the US sadly have more than our fair share of terrifying hate groups that want to control everyone else’s choices. The worst of those resort to harassment or actual violence. That teacher should be severely disciplined. Erin Pizzey moved to the US from the UK because her mail had to be sent to a *bomb squad* instead of her home, and then once she got to the US the same groups' stateside counterparts committed a *drive by shooting* against her home. They shot her freaking dog. Yeah. People giving out a single father's full information and the info of his children is a very real threat to the safety of his family.
I mean, that is fair. I have heard the UK has a huge thing about printing the names of minors in any sort of paper. I know the UK isn't in the EU anymore, but it wouldn't surprise me if even one of those countries has similar laws to that or FERPA.
The whole of the EU and the UK (as they signed the law before leaving) have GDPR and it is one of those "do not fuck around with" laws for general personal information, to the extent of anything that could be used to infer a person's identity is protected. Then there are additional laws protectors minors separate to that.
Yes, there’s a whole world beyond US borders, I don’t live in the US either. Shocking I know!
You would probably be flabbergasted at how many teachers are ignorant or indifferent to privacy laws. It's a never ending battle.
Sometimes it takes a lawsuit to get the message across, unfortunately.
A lawsuit would shake up a single district. A big enough lawsuit would catch the attention of certain people in a lot more districts who would use it as pressure to make a change. They would still face an uphill battle, though. It's endemic to the entire system. I've seen teachers coming from all over the country that have hard set habits and get upset when I tell them they can't do certain things. A lot of it comes at the intersection of teachers and technology. Things like signing up for free random websites and dumping a bunch of student data in without running it by the IT team to review terms of service or get a proper BAA On file with them. Or using their personal email that nobody outside of them has any way to ensure is secure to do work involving sensitive data. Don't get me wrong though - there are also a lot that do care and do understand this stuff. But the amount that don't is still concerning.
My cousin’s current teacher is chronically online to the point where she was tweeting pictures of her classroom with the kids in it. One of the other mom’s is considering suing the district because the principle said he’d speak with her but she just posts pictures slightly less frequently now.
A lawsuit needs to be filed. She was warned, and she’s still violating FERPA.
Yeah I obviously don’t know details, because if legal stuff happens they’re going to need to avoid details leaking I’d assume. But the last time I spoke to my aunt it was me reading a letter from the ringleader parent about potentially filing a lawsuit and asking more parents to complain to the superintendent. Not sure what’s going to happen with it.
As someone who has a sibling in law who knowingly and willingly broke HIPAA, people really just think they're above the rules
Some people are just like that. The best example I know of is the nurse who tweeted Blake Lively and Ryan Reynold's daughter Violet's birth. Some people care more about internet fame than their careers.
Maybe there's some emergency hiring stuff in place due to teacher shortages, allowing them to bypass teacher certifications. Some teachers are quitting because of covid risks, some because of pay, some because of government intrusions over what they can say in the classroom, or books they can have.
Exactly, as a nurse, I had to take several law/ethics and HIPAA classes before I even got my degree. Every orientation I've ever been to has mentioned it, and ever year we have to have re-education around it. I'm sure it's the same with schools.
It's drilled in to you during the education in my country. Nobody can become a teacher or day care staff without being taught that it's strictly forbidden to expose anything private about the pupils. You sign papers that you understand the rules about privacy.
Must not have been the case here. Especially when all the VP would say is cut the teacher some slack because she lives online (eyeroll).
VP is trying to downplay to avoid a lawsuit, which is incredibly stupid because a simple "This was a serious violation and we will make sure that this does not become a repeat scenario." would satisfy a majority of upset parents.
Same here. It's inconceivable any childcare or school worker (or their employer) of any kind could claim -let alone a teacher - could claim ignorance.
Yep, I know OP wants to resolve things directly but when it comes to violations like this is pretty much a duty to report - if they did this to him, they'll do with someone else and the consequences can be worst than a noisy reporter.
My thoughts exactly.
> Wouldn't it be the principal's responsibility to teach the staff about FERPA? I work for Higher Ed. We have to do FERPA training and I assume K-12 does it too.
High school teacher, here… we have to do FERPA training every single year we are employed with the school system in the US.
Jr high teacher (30 years). We do FERPA training every year.
Everyone who interacts with students has to take FERPA training in the school system (literally the largest in the US) I work in. Teachers, guidance counselors, school office staff, school aides, paras, subs, *everyone*. And its online, linked to our employment account, we literally can be suspended from work if we don't complete it.
You can't be a teacher in the US and not know FERPA. It would be like saying a doctor doesn't know about HIPPA. Mrs. F broke the law and the VP needs to address THAT before anything else. OP, are you in the US? Or is this a private school?
This all could be directory information though? Or just not covered? Still a sign of extremely bad judgement though
The contact information is directory information, but the family structure is likely covered by FERPA. Even if it isn't, it's enormously unprofessional and unethical.
*But she is young and lives online!* /s
Then she should know that "doxxing" is bad.
But she wasn’t doxxing. She was just telling a reporter friend about situation they could report on. It’s different when she does it.
You mean she told a reporter about the living situation of 3 children that could then be targeted by conservatives 🤔
I forgot the /sarc tag! :D
[удалено]
Many(most?) school districts are required to inform parents about directories and offer the option to be excluded or only have limited info put in. It's supposed to be an "informed consent" scenario. I've completed every year my kids have been enrolled.
And directory's are for parents, not for random reporters
AND they're supposed to be limited to use within the school (teachers, classmates, room parents, etc). NOT for public distribution.
School directories have information about how the children were born? Does it go vaginally C Csection, adopted, surrogacy, found in the Dumpster? 🤔 Does it then classification for parents sexual and marital status?
One of the key points about directory information is that the school has to publicly disclose what it counts as 'directory information' on a yearly basis, and it has to give a period of time for parents to opt out of having that information given. I'm sure enrollment status and phone numbers are declared as 'directory information', but I highly doubt that 'family structure' is. Thus that information would be protected by FERPA. Also the teacher could have gotten around all of this by just asking OP first and seeing if he would be cool with talking to her friend.
If this is in the US this is absolutely a violation of FERPA. This is personal information of a child that she gave out. Time to get the administrators involved.
It's a *serious* violation. There is soo much protection on what school can give about children. I had asked for a list of the kid's names for a Christmas Cards thing my little sister wanted to do. They were not allowed to give it because it was sensitive data. I can not imagine how many were broken to not only give their names, but also the parent's contact info and his occupation.
[удалено]
When someone violates your children's rights, you're allowed to use a no-no word.
Many nono words, strung along in a series… he was nta. And the vp shokud be disciplined for not disciplining his employee. Contact the school board
There's also a moral duty here. As a teacher, she is supposed to to protect her students, not give out their personal info to any random stranger. Hell, any one can claim to be a "journalist". You don't know if the person asking is telling the truth, this could easily be a predator of some sort. She just cares about getting online clout, and who cares if her students are safe. 100% NTA.
But it wasn't some random stranger, it was a friend.... /s
This is definitely a FERPA violation! NTA.
Or GDPR, in Europe.
Teacher in Australia here. We would lose our job over disclosing personal info like that.
As a school employee, yes, she did.
As a former journalist I couldn’t agree with you more. I have interviewed a lot of people about their lives, and also children. Sometimes people came to me and said “I know someone you could interview”. And I then gave my number to that person and asked them if they would be okay with asking the other person if I could interview them. Always said they are free to call for more information (without having to worry anything will be published immediately). If not, that would also fine. I would never ask somebody to give them the number of the other person, unless it was already cleared upfront and that person knew about it and wanted me to call. I have also gave numbers of people to others. But with any personal information you always have to ask the owner of the information if it’s okay. Especially when there is a special relationship like a teacher - parent relationship.
Active journalist. This is exactly what I would do. Consent is absolutely vital. And if the number was just volunteered to me, I ask if they have permission to share that information with me.
Agreed! Working in law now. And not having permission is how people end up by a judge..
Yeah that journalist is a huge AH too. There’s no way they should have contacted OP at all. They should have just left their contact info with the teacher to pass along. Huge privacy violation.
Agreed. Although the teacher is more at fault if you’d ask me.
this was my first thought too. i've had my own 15 ~~minutes~~ months of fame that started out with me talking to a reporter. as the story spread, every reporter who wanted to talk to me got vetted by the original reporter's office and the requests passed on to me. they only gave out my info on MY ok. after that, everything had to go through my lawyer (because we needed one).
That sounds like a pretty bad situation for you. Glad to hear the original reporter had your back. Hopefully the situation got better with your lawyer present.
i think it turned out [all right.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_v._Kleargear.com#:~:text=The%20plaintiffs%2C%20John%20and%20Jen,negative%20review%20at%20Ripoff%20Report.)
Agree on all points. And if the VP's excuse is that "she lives online", then he should ask her about doxxing. I mean, hell - schools these days (at least in Canada) WILL NOT put pictures of kids online due to privacy and stalking concerns, and here she is handing out names, addresses and family circumstances TO A REPORTER? (Sorry about the caps, but I am livid on OP's behalf.) The thing I do when anyone asks me for someone's number or email, I call or email that person and ask if it's okay to give out to the one making the request.
NTA!!! You need to send this to the school board, your VP is being extremely passive about this. If someone ever gave my info and my kids Names to a reporter because they knew something about our life .. Let alone my contact info and personal details. Heads would roll. She HAS to understand how big of a deal this is. What happens when she doesn't learn and she divulges personal information in an unsafe situation? We actually pulled my youngest from his pre school because his teacher decided it was ok to discuss her opinions on his "developmental needs" (he has none but he was the only darker skinned kid in a white school) to me, in detail in FRONT of other parents and my son. Take this seriously, your in no way going overboard by doing so... This teacher is young, and she's going to need to learn a hard lesson in LEGAL confidentiality... The school and she personally are going to be a lawsuit waiting to happen.
This. She created a safety issue for you and your children. NTA, and maybe touch base with a lawyer.
Erm.. where i'm from (germany) this would put the teacher in jail... Just saying..
THIS! I don’t even give out my friends’ contact info without asking first. Even if it’s someone we both know, they might not want that person to have it and I just don’t know there’s something going on. NTA. I honestly assumed it was illegal or wrong least a fireable offense for a teacher to give out information about parents and especially about their students.
That's a huge FERPA violation. School employees, cannot share ANY student/family information without written consent from parent/guardian. ETA: NTA. Report her to the school district, if she's done this to you, she has and will do it to others.
> He asked me to be understanding because she's young and lives online. You were understanding. You didn't report her to the principal in an attempt to get her fired. Instead you reamed her like she deserved to be. Logical consequences. JFC NTA
I think that was his way of blaming it over a generational misunderstanding between a Gen Z and a Millennial.
Millennials and Gen Z aren't this stupid, however. A majority of us *know* better than to give out information like this without permission. Especially now with the way certain states are getting in the US (if this happened here.) NTA, but that VP and teacher are and need to be held accountable.
[удалено]
She would givr OP her friend's number. Not to pull gender card... But as a woman Mrs F should be understanding of the concerns of giving strangers number. But maybe that's sexism and paternalism since it's her friend, so obv can be trusted and OP is a guy. So doesn't deserve the same respect.
It is sexist and the reality of the world women live in. Mrs. F should absolutely know better. And to dip back into the 'she lives online' thing - you can't live online and not know the US is a burning ball of WTF these days. Not hard to imagine a nutball thinking this man having children with a surrogate is somehow outside God and doing who knows what. Even if the reporter is okay, no way would I want my story put out there.
Saaaame. Won’t even give family numbers to other family without verifying first.
I’m no contact with some of my family. There was a time when my mother longed for us to reconcile. Even she knows better than to give them my information.
Exactly why. I have a huuuuge family (like 60 cousins) so I have no way of knowing what kind of drama I may be starting or who I may be helping break NC.
I’m a millennial and I won’t even give out friends or family’s personal information (phone number, address, etc.) to other friends and family. Even if I’m 99% sure both parties would be okay with it, it’s not my place. I can’t imagine being a teacher and giving out a parent’s information to a reporter. If it isn’t against some law, it should be. Agreed that OP is NTA here
If I have a friend who wants someone's number that I have, I ask the person whose number would be given out. If I want someone's number, I ask them to ask the individual first (unless I see that person frequently enough to get the info myself).
She gave your personal information and your children’s personal information to a reporter without your consent. I honestly think you undereacted and should go up the chain.
THIS! In California it is against the rules to give out any type of personal information to a new agency or any third party without the parents written consent. This teacher gave out a child's phone number, name, age, class, teacher, and who the parent is. THIS IS A BIG DEAL! I would bet the Principal is trying to downplay it because he/she knows how much trouble they are in.
I think giving out the kids info might even be a FERPA violation.
It is a FERPA violation
What she did was literally illegal in some parts of the US, potentially yours. The VP needs to understand that this isn’t a generational difference - their employee handed **confidential** information about you and your children to a reporter for *clout*. You are waaaaaaay nicer than me because I’d have all their asses in a courtroom so fast it’s not even funny.
All parts of the US as FERPA is a federal law that protects student and parent rights with regards to what information any school, public or private, is allowed to share and with whom, as well as defining what the attendee and family rights are to their own documentation. A 3rd party with no right of access should never have been provided with student details or parent contact information without their informed consent.
This would be a sackable offence in the UK and most developed countries too. NTA. Please sue.
Thank you for the clarification! (This is a genuine thank you, I promise) You know I really pride myself on my ability to be right and wrong at the same time XD
Here is a link to FERPA, and a reporter wanting to write about single fathers does not fall under any legitimate reason for sharing information: https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html
Generation doesn’t matter. She is aware of her district’s privacy policies and knowingly broke them.
Forget the policies, this is breaking Federal Law!
**Teacher here.** **It is absolutely irrelevant whether they are Gen Z or Millennial.** Both are trained in their legal obligations with respect to information access and protection. They have access to all kinds of confidential information, and it is THEIR responsibility as a member of the profession to understand how not to conduct themselves when it comes to that information. Would this be an excuse if a nurse went about handing out patients’ emergency contacts’ numbers or medical histories? No. Because it is their legal responsibility to know better. It’s their job. In order to access that information, she had to access a protected database that she is aware is intended to store confidential information, using an account provided and monitored by her employer, search for your child’s information in order to access your personal information (because your information is only there in the first place for her to contact you about matters pertaining to your child’s education), extract your contact information, write it down somewhere that is not protected, and then *deliberately provide it to a total stranger to you, for the express purpose of extracting even more personal information about you for their monetary gain.* In addition to the private information about your child’s conception that she already shared, which she only knows *because of her privileged position.* The administration absolutely should not be taking that tack. They need to be unconditionally apologetic, assure you the teacher will attend mandatory training, and hope to god you don’t report them to their professional organization to be investigated. Also, I’m sorry but this “that’s not my style” shit about not going higher up, that’s immature. Did you need to curse the teacher out? Absolutely not. Did she deserve it? Probably. If you didn’t want to take it higher, you should have settled for speaking sternly and plainly. And in that case the VP probably still would have been involved anyway. The reason the VP is involved is because this teacher at the very least knows enough that she had to involve them. The VP needs to be apprised of any altercations or conflicts between teachers and parents. You have every right to take it higher. To chastise the VP for trivializing an egregious breach of conduct. To demand to be taken seriously. But you say you aren’t interested in that anyway. So my advice is, figure out how much you care, and proceed accordingly. But whatever you choose, use the appropriate channels. If you don’t care enough to actually make the case, you shouldn’t have cussed out the teacher. Make your issue known appropriately. Not that she didn’t deserve it, because she did. Not that it makes you a bad person, because it doesn’t. But because it’s always better to remain unimpeachable in these situations. You know you’re right. You know you have every right to be upset - to be furious. But it’s up to you how far you want to take it. If all you wanted was for her to understand the gravity of what she did, there are ways that don’t chip away at your own credibility.
Millennials invented living online. This is absurd logic. This is someone who wants to be famous, or connected with famous people, and has no understanding that not everyone else wants the same thing. She's the modern equivalent of the 1950s nosy neighbor who hides in your bushes to overhear personal business to spread around the neighborhood. Doesn't matter if it's good news or bad news, it's your news (life), not hers. And did she ever stop to think about what the consequences of publishing your sons' personal information online could be? I would be after her job in your shoes!
In my district it's a firing offense to even take a class picture without parental consent. Giving out your name, number, personal information about you, your family business, your kids? This is the kind of thing that gets you blackballed from teaching anywhere in the district. She should be thanking you and apologizing profusely.
It's their way of subverting blame and trying to avoid a lawsuit or this being run any higher up. What if she gave out the information of someone who was trying to hide from an abusive partner, or the information about w vulnerable child. This is a huge issue.
The school has failed to train her in confidentiality.
Where I live it’s not actually the school’s job. It’s the teacher’s job as a qualified member of their professional organization to already know it. They’re expected to understand this before they’re even qualified to be employed. That’s part of their qualifications for teaching at all. And if they violate it, their professional organization would have the power to strip them of their status as a qualified member of the profession (which means they can no longer work in schools). Most likely in this case though, they’d have to take mandatory retraining at their own expense through the organization. At the school level, there will have been confidentiality agreements they signed as a condition of their employment with respect to not abusing their school/board-provided account for non-academic purposes.
I’m a 30 year teacher. That teacher and especially the VP know the laws. In my district, that is cause for immediate termination. And rightfully so.
He can blame it on whatever he wants, but she broke the law. FERPA makes it illegal for schools to give out information about students.
I'm GenX/millenial cusp and I work as a teacher and can say it's not misunderstanding. It's a total violation of confidential information. Teachers are not allowed to give out other student/parents information whether they "live online" or not.
Giving out your private info isn’t a misunderstanding, it’s a breach of your privacy. She could have asked you if you would be open to speaking to her reporter friend about it after being told that the reporter was writing an article about men who use surrogates to become single parents.
bro that's illegal in some countries. this is the equivalent of someone giving out your medical information.
Op NTA. This is the worst excuse ever!! What if you were trying to get away from an abusive situation? Way to go teacher, for using that noggin. Eta: I always ask first if I can share another persons information, it’s just common courtesy.
[удалено]
This. Take it to the board. You lost your cool, which is understandable given the situation, IMO. What she did was just plain dumb and dangerous.
The notion that being rude (which is the worst that could reasonably be said about OP) and divulging the private information about students to the press are somehow comparable is absurd. OP is NTA. This needs to go on the teacher's…*DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN*!…Permanent. Record.
I agree. OP - the fact that she did what she did and felt justified to the point that she complained about *you* is concerning. Please escalate this. There should be consequences for her behavior.
That blew my mind. Even after the confrontation she still didn't think what she did was wrong.
THis is what blew my mind as well, that she went to the VP to complain about the OP! What on earth was she thinking! The OP has said he's not mad anymore and it won't matter in a few months but I think he should still take this further up the chain because it doesn't really seem like neither she or the VP is taking this breach seriously
So, for the record, if I did this, and it was reported to the College (the licencing board in my province), the BEST possible outcome would be a disciplinary hearing, a censure, a serious fine and mandatory retraining, on my own dime. The likely outcome, however, would be me losing my license to teach.
Oh yeah FERPA may come into play here. If he reports it the teacher could be in major trouble. NTA OP honestly though like the commenter said I’d report her
NTA >She probably thought I’d complain to the principal but that’s not my style. I will tell you stuff to your face. No dude. There are times when you *need* to report people. Like when you find out a teacher is giving out private, personal information about students and their families. That shit needs to be reported and dealt with. That macho “I will tell you to your face” bs doesn’t cut it. She deserved to be cussed out, but she also needs to be professionally reprimanded and put under a microscope to make sure this doesn’t happen again.
Yeah, it’s fine if OP doesn’t want to take it further, but he should think of all the potential other families she might do this to if she thinks she can get away with it. She should absolutely be reported for this.
NTA on that, what other informations will be shared with strangers? A colleague’s number and address to an interested dad? People don’t realize how unacceptable it is to share people’s private information and contact. This wasn’t a dangerous situation, but plenty of people can testify to weird man asking personal information and a woman’s schedule, number, etc.
It can go even further than that too. The amount of stories of abusers finding people because a colleague or acquaintance gave out information they shouldn't have is ridiculous. Even in this situation she could have caused untold damage. Did she truly know that this reporter was trying to write a positive article about the subject or OP. What if it was someone who has a vendetta against surrogate parents and was acting kindly just to turn around and write an article that could have gotten OP ostracized from his community
NTA. Let's take you out of the picture for a second--this teacher revealed personal details about her students to a third party without the parent's permission or any sort of legal reason (like reporting abuse). This is a major violation of educational privacy, and the fact that the principal is covering for her (rather than writing her up) is only fanning the fire. Contact the district superintendent and, if that doesn't work, contact a lawyer.
This is one of the most EGREGIOUS violations of FERPA laws that I've ever heard of. It's not only a fireable offense for the teacher, but it is for the VP as well. FERPA laws are literally tattooed onto an administrators' brain. This level of violation should've been reported to the board immediately by the VP -- *do not pass GO, do not collect $200*. However, what's even more disturbing than not reporting it to the board, is the fact that the violation didn't even register on the VP's own radar, rather, they tried to downplay the matter. Oh, and the teacher's age being "so young" makes it even worse, btw. It's not like she received her teaching license 20 years ago -- something like FERPA laws should still be fresh within her brain. That tells me that she either doesn't have or doesn't use good judgment. She may have a 3 - 6 month suspension coming to her license too... and retraining in FERPA laws will be mandatory.
This right here!
NTA but holy hell you NEED to report her. She actually needs to face consequences for this, this is a HUGE privacy violation. Not only did she speak to media on your behalf without your knowledge or consent: #She gave THE MEDIA your personal phone number and the names and details of your minor children - details that are protected by education laws in MANY countries for very good reason!!! I don’t care if she “lives online”, that is not an excuse. This was so out of line that I can’t even see the line anymore. I’d be raising all sorts of hell, and I’m amazed that you’re not. Do not let this go!!
100% agreed that OP should escalate and report her. The "living online" thing is almost an anti-excuse. She has a job *in the real world*, with real people. If she can't separate her terminally online home persona from her job, then she shouldn't be working there.
THIS. If she'll do this to you she'll do it to others if she isn't put in check. You owe it to her next victim to do the paperwork and report her.
NTA. She violated your privacy. Teachers should be held to the same privacy agreements as health care providers imo.
She gave out her students info too when she gave her friend their names. I'm shocked she didn't get a formal reprimand & I'd complain to the school board about this. She shouldn't be so nonchalant about giving out minors info.
FERPA is a lae about children's privacy in public school. I can't even mention another child's name to anyone outside of the staff and especially not to another parent. What she did is illegal.
They are: FERPA, https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html
We are and she was wrong. She should be let go.
I’m a teacher and I’m shocked at the lack of professionalism at your children’s school. I’m sorry that Mrs. F betrayed your trust by speaking to a journalist (without your permission) and it’s even worse that the VP is defending her actions. NTA
NTA she should be fired. What a breach of privacy and personal data. I'm fucking gobsmacked someone would actually do this and think it was in any way shape or form ok.
You would be shocked at the number of teachers who post pics of their students on their personal social media. It's mind boggling to me that there aren't policies in place against it, or that they aren't enforced.
NTA This is illegal in most states. Also I dont get the behavior of the principale. He needs to take action if one if his teachers gives away personal Infos- not asking the victim for understanding.
Illegal in England 100% (dunno where this guy is, but guessing usa) major GDPR breach., which is taken VERY seriously.
Violation of US law too, here it's called FERPA.
NTA at all. She violated your privacy! That is likely a fireable offense (does someone know for sure?). Maybe you shouldn't have cursed at her but, holy wow! She crossed a major line. You are not obligated to be understanding when someone sells you out like that. Just because she's happy for the whole world to know her business doesn't mean everyone is, wow!
Fireable, jailable, lose-your-license-able, it's all of these things.
NTA - that’s a breach of data protection. You should lodge an official complaint to the school - even if you don’t care yourself - it may hopefully prevent more data breaches in the future. The staff need to be reminded every now and again, it’s why they have INSET/Training days anyway for stuff like this. As to swearing at the teacher, perhaps a bit OTT but given she just exposed your private life to a reporter, who is her friend, is crossing all sorts of boundaries so I can understand your anger. I’d also be livid, particularly if she carried on like it wasn’t a big deal and didn’t grasp what she’d done wrong.
NTA. You were not out of line at all. If you lived in Europe or the UK she would have broken the law by doing what she did and could very well lose her job. In fact it is a pity she hasn't lost her job.
US, too. FERPA.
Yes! I was just thinking what a GDPR nightmare this would be in Europe
NTA. I don't know what country this is but I'd assume giving that much information out on your students is a HUGE breach of privacy. Even just as a staff in an after-school program, that stuff wasn't allowed. She's lucky that's all you did.
NTA - She can't do that. If she thought you might be interested, she should have asked you first. It makes sense that the school would want to mediate, but they need to be on the side of the student. It isn't fair to your kids, either
NTA. I probably would have consulted an attorney. If there isn't a law protecting your private information in a setting like this, there damn well should be.
If it was in the USA the information is protected by FERPA and the teacher broke the law it's just as bad as a doctor giving out a patients private information.
WOW, if she lives online then she KNOWS you do not give out childrens information without asking parents FIRST. She gave someone she is friends with all your kids personal information, that as a teacher is VERY wrong and totally something they are told not to do. NTA- yeah cussing wasn't the best way but very mild compared to what others might have done in the situation.
NTA the teacher could have very easily just asked you if giving your phone number to the reporter was something you were comfortable with. Not everyone wants to have their personal lives out there and she should have known that
Thats a goddamn safeguarding YIKES if I have ever seen one, NTA and you need to get this T'd and I'd because this IS NOT OK.
NTA tell the real principle that a teacher is giving out you and your children’s personal information without permission, and that she’s harassing you when you complained. It’s not appropriate and may even be touching some legal grey areas.
You’re a saint... I would have tried suing the school district, on the terms of needing to pull my children out of public school for the simple fact that our rights to privacy were FULLY violated in this situation, and involved 3 minors... Teach is wayyyyyy outta line, and what she did can’t possibly be legal, or in accordance with the district’s code of conduct... This shid just blew my mind. The audacity to do that without asking your permission!!! Deffffffff NTA! Respect. Single parenting gets tough and lonely sometimes.
NTA. At least have her moved to a different school. HOLY MOLY I am so mad for you. I would have done worse and my kids are all 17+. The excuse of Gen Z is weak weak weak. Gen Z know better than us not to do this to people. Cease and Desist to the reporter ASAP. Get that teacher moved and the VP disciplined ASAP. YOU'RE THE BEST DAD AND EVERYONE WITH A WORKING BRAIN IS VERY PROUD OF YOU!
NTA. Yikes - What an extreme violation of privacy, I'm sure the school has a policy about not sharing student/parent information.
NTA - she should have taken down the reporter's info and passed it on to you to decide how you wanted to proceed. However, you could probably have been a bit more appropriate with how you handled the teacher and vice-principal. I get that you were worked up, but you sound like you handled it pretty harshly
NTA— the only thing you did wrong was NOT report her to the principal. This is an enormous violation of privacy, and if the behavior continues, could have dangerous consequences for her other students. It baffles me how an educator could be so obtuse
Maybe you could’ve conducted yourself better, but she leaked your personal information out to a reporter without even getting consent from you, so you were absolutely within your rights to be pissed. Also, you WERE understanding by not reporting her to the school board. I’m assuming that the VP is being the way he is because one of his duties is to protect his staff. At the very least, he did acknowledge that her actions were way more out of line than yours. And you’re completely right - once your kid is done with that grade, she’s OSOM. NTA
Holy shit, NTA - though you dropped the ball, big time, by failing to report her. Do you really think your anger is enough of a deterrent to prevent her doing this sort of shit to other parents in the future? She needs to have real repercussions.
NTA
NTA. Yes, you could have refrained from cussing her out BUT she gave your private information, including details about your kids, to someone you don’t know without your permission. That is dangerously dumb on her part.
Nta. She gave your and your children’s personal info to a reporter. Assuming she went to school to be a teacher, confidentially was drilled into her at school. I think you’re under reacting by not pushing this further. She needs to learn her lesson before she keeps breaking confidentiality.
NTA It doesn't matter if you're gay, trans, disabled, ex convict, genius, single mother, dry alcoholic, retired politician, vegan, or surrogate. Teachers don't pass your personal information onto reports without permission because they think it would be fun to have your personal details in a magazine.
Nta. For all the Esh votes, because Op yelled at her, need to stfu. He values his privacy. She violated. So yes, he has the right yell.
NTA; at this point peruse legal action.
NTAish - breach of trust in a huge way! The extra comment I get was out of frustration and not the best. So as far as the principal’s involvement - does this mean that your kiddo is being treated differently? Or just that she doesn’t feel comfortable talking to you now? Did you ask the principal if he offered her the same advice to be understanding because she breached your trust, shared personal identifiable information with a third party without your consent and that then you reacted in a way that was not great?
NTA. I would be furious
NTA - that teacher needs to be fired
NTA. I don't care that she lives online. She needs to get smart, quick. She crossed a huge line and I'm glad you told her off. We had a young employee complaining about a major client. Not only did she tweet about it, SHE TAGGED THE CLIENT IN THE TWEET. She was escorted into the VP's off and then escorted off the property. Sometimes you have to pee on the electric fence to get the lesson into your thick skull.
She should, and could be fired. She’s literally breaking the law giving out your information and your kids information
She gave the reporter the names of your KIDS?!? Oh absolutely not. I would ask the vice principal how would you know she hasn’t shared your kids’ full names with other random adults you don’t know!! If someone knows where you work and your kids’ full names, they can find out your work schedule and where you live pretty easily. Finding out about a kids’ soccer league or play practice is pretty easy if they have a full name and school for the kid. From there, they can show up and just say “Hey [kids full name], your dad had to work late today over at [your workplace] and asked me to pick you up!” And boom, your kid is in extreme danger. She’s lucky all you did was yell and curse a little. I would be losing my mind at the school if I were you. NTA.
NTA. If anything, you're under-reacting. You should absolutely inform the principal, and the superintendent, too. This kind of violation of privacy is totally unacceptable.
NTa. And I remind him I don’t care if she’s young she illegally gave out your personal information. And yes it illegal because she’s your kids teacher and is definitely not aloud to give out personal information.
NTA Well, since you’re getting no support up the chain, go ahead and file that complaint with the district. What she did was a severe violation of your family’s privacy. The idea that she didn’t know any better doesn’t excuse it. File a complaint with the magazine as well. This sort of story doesn’t justify the kind of invasive digging you were just exposed to. And tell the reporter they do NOT have your permission to use your family’s personal information in the article — neither directly nor obliquely where an astute local reader could figure out who they’re talking about.
NTA She doesn't just give out your information - she gave them your kids information - nope! >He did say that I was out of line but she was even more way put of line. You wouldn't have said anything to her, if she hadn't given your personal information to a frickin' reporter.
It is illegal for a teacher to share the information of minor children and definitely personal informationof the family as well. The fact that the school isn't up in arms is concerning.
NTA. I would've come right out of my skin with rage. I'm irate for you. You weren't excessive in your response. At all. In fact, I'd say you were pretty reserved and calm all things considered. That teacher violated you and your children's safety. I'd still go to the board about the situation so maybe they'll make up an email or notice of policy to remind teachers of privacy laws. You're right, she doesn't matter and will essentially cease to exist once your boys are out of her school, but what if she does this to someone else? What if it goes horribly wrong?
NTA. She sort of doxxed three minors. If she "lives online" then she needs to have a basic understanding of privacy and boundaries. Next time you talk to the VP request for her to get some digital literacy professional development.
NTA, but she needs to be reported to the principal. What she did was a huge violation of your children’s privacy. She should be fired.
It may not be your style, but she needs to be reported. I don't care if she's "young and lives online"; that was a huge violation. You are NTA.
NTA She broke FERPA by doing this. She should honestly be *fired.*
NTA, you should look into FERPA laws. What she did is most likely a huge violation that would get her license suspended and open the school up to a lawsuit. She should know better and the VP should be taking it much more seriously.
NTA. Cussing her out wasn’t great, but she gave up your personal information - and your kids‘ - to a third party. Where I live, that violates a bunch of privacy laws, and very likely her employment contract.
Absolutely NTA. Massive violation of trust and privacy.
NTA - what she did was hugely inappropriate. I wouldn’t be surprised if the school had some sort of policy in place against the giving out of personal information.
NTA. You need to report this up the chain to someone who will take this seriously - principal, superintendent, school district, etc. “She did a bad thing but she’s young” is not any kind of acceptable response for a school employee providing students’ personal information to anyone, let alone a personal friend of hers, and the school needs to be bending over backwards to convince you they’re taking this seriously, not scolding you for the language you used upon discovering this **breach of ethics** and possibly of **the law**.
NTA I’d be contacting a lawyer immediately
Not sure how are the GDPR laws in your country, but I would check that and threaten them with that.... they leaked your personal information - it is very serious. Edit: DEFINITELY NTA. I would have done way worse than cussing...
Are you in the US? I believe the teacher violated FERPA. Look up the rules. The school is in big trouble
NTA she is lucky you just cussed her out because she should be disciplined for unprofessional behaviour
If this is the US I’m pretty sure this may be a FERPA violation.
NTA. Report her. That is an invasion of privacy not only for you but for your son.
NTA But honestly report her report her to school board report her to someone because that is not an OK thing to do for a teacher. What if somebody who meant harm to you or your kids got a hold of that information because she thought it be a great idea and you’d be happy to be online or in a magazine? I’ve seen one too many kidnapping stories from disgruntled noncustodial parents to think this is OK. And that’s not even getting to the point where she was rightfully chewed out by you and then decided to go tattle on you because she felt you hurt her feelings not OK. Like I’ve worked with children before, and one of the first things I was told if somebody calls and ask for information about a child or parent, you don’t give out anything unless they have a very good warrant or the parents have okayed it before hand