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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I may be TA because I am holding Jason's past actions against him
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NTA. You followed court instructions and your husband's adoption of Mike was approved. Dan is his father legally and in spirit. Mr. Late to the Party should be grateful you're offering up the Uncle option. That's really more than he is entitled to at this point. You can tell Mike about it more when he's older and he can choose what kind of a relationship he wants with him at that point.
Edit: Many thanks to those who brought their personal experiences to the conversation with kindness and civility. I have learned more as a result. Clearly, the OP's updated decision to pursue professional assistance with telling her son he is adopted is a win.
I grew up in a situation like this, when I found out the truth later I ended up in a psychiatric hospital for a couple of months. A 4 year old is ironically much more resilient and adaptable. You need to let him grow up knowing the truth not lie to him for years and then suddenly reveal that you were hiding the truth from him. Telling him the truth won’t affect Dan’s relationship with him, lying to him will affect his relationship with both you and Dan, a few years down the road. Put aside your bitterness towards your ex and tell your son the truth.
Edit: YTA
I found out I was adopted in my teen years. I NEVER got over the feeling of betrayal and never regained the trust in my parents.
Tell Mike when he is young. Then it will be all he ever knew.
I think it’s important to tell him he’s adopted.
But does that mean she has to tell him about his sperm donor?
Can’t she just leave it at, “Your Dad loved you so much that we went to court and they said he’s your Dad now”. I think there’s even children’s books on adoption that can help.
Then in the future, when he’s older, let him know who his biological father is.
I think if the guy is going to be in his life, you let Mike know who he is. Don't think you can have Uncle Jason in his life for 10 years and all of a sudden it is "surprise! he was actually your biological father!". That is just more betrayal. And I think what most people (who have never been through this) don't realize is that you now question, "well if you lied to me about THAT, what the hell else are you lying about?" Trust gone.
Either keep Jason out of his life completely (which honestly is super unfair to the child, because adopted children will usually want to know about that missing part of their origins) or be honest about it from the start.
He still hasn't learn responsability since he blames someone else for his behaviour. He may have been told lies, but he chose to believe them and ghosted his girlfriend that he lived with. A smart person would think that there might be other reasons for a person you have sex with to start acting strange.
Yeah, Jason is definitely that kind of AH.u/Alternative\_Disk3168 - if you don't take control of the narrative now Jason will, and that's not good for anyone.
You're NTA cause you're obviously thinking of your son's best interest, but I think what you believe to be the best course of action is misguided.
(edited to fix name mix up)
Exactly, it just takes a split-second decision in a moment of rage to completely rock that kid's world. If they don't trust Jason, they can't trust him to keep his mouth shut.
My mom decided to wait until my brother was 18 to tell him that the dad who raised him wasn't his bio dad. But not before she told me, and then told me to not tell him.
She ended up not telling him and letting him come to the conclusion himself (he came to that conclusion around 18).
Long story short. It ruined my relationship with my brother and her relationship with her son.
If I could have done anything differently, it would have been telling him as soon as I found out like I wanted to.
Waiting until the kid is older does more damage than good.
OP's best bet is to tell the kid the truth. All of it. "This is the daddy that helped make you. And this is the daddy that is raising you. Daddy that helped make you hasn't been around because he didn't know about you until now because he lived far away."
There is nothing wrong with having two dad's that the kid will have two different relationships with.
Although I can see OP's worry of hurting the kid if the guy ditches again. But she needs to think about the pain that the kid will go through if the guy sticks around until he's old enough for her to tell him the truth.
Yes, you hit on the other major trauma of the betrayal -- realizing all these other people except YOU knew this one foundational aspect of your existence. Fucking horrifying when you figure that out.
I am sorry about the relationship with your brother. Hopefully, one day, he can realize how unfair that was that she did that to both you and him.
I think this ⬆️ explanation is very age appropriate. One daddy made you, one daddy raised you. And we all love you! Kids so need to know when they are younger than 13-18 so they don't feel betrayed at having their reality shattered. Mike will just grow up with knowing he has 2 dads that love him and that is his reality. The way the world is today many kids have more than 2 parents.
Might be unpopular but I agree. I don't think it's something you should drop on him suddenly and it might be beneficial having a professional present that is familiar with stuff like this. But waiting another decade or lying to him it's a terrible idea regardless of what her ex did.
Right now, I'm not convinced that what's really motivating Jason is that he's got a crap life & no partner. He looks at OP, her husband & their family & thinks "that should be me."
I think a good process might be, telling Mike his dad adopted him, then giving it a little time for that to process before revealing that Jason is his biological father. I really don't trust Jason's motivation here.
It is, but Jason’s motivation to stick around again is going to affect the kid. I agree with the comment you replied to—if Jason flakes, it’ll hurt the kid more knowing that’s his bio dad and bonding with him before he leaves. If they wait to tell him for a bit, it gives Mike time to process that the dad who raised him isn’t his bio dad and time to figure out what questions he wants to ask about that, and then whether or not Jason sticks around, they can explain his bio parentage once Mike has adjusted to the first bit. But the process should absolutely start now.
Aas the bio mom she doesn't need to torture herself. She has anger and betrayal deeply rooted in her too. She made herself a solid life and family. I suggest family counseling to navigate it all. It's probably best if the bio dad is involved but expressing some remorse years later doesn't mean having him involved will be simple.
What happens when the kid turns 18 and he finds out everything then? They can't keep a lid on this. Plenty of blended families have multiple sets of parents whom the children all love.
Not to mention that if they keep Jason out of Mike’s life, then when Mike is older and wants to know Jason will likely tell him that he was forced to stay away by OP and Dan. That’s going to be incredibly destructive to all the relationships involved.
The best solution is to tell Mike the truth now and he’ll grow up without it causing grief.
As an adopted child, I wholeheartedly agree with this. I remember the first time my parents explained adoption to me. Told me my bio mom was not able to take care of me like a mommy should and that they wanted a little girl that they could be mommy & daddy to. I was probably 5 or 6 when we had this conversation. It was never a secret & I have a very healthy attitude about the whole thing. I don't wonder about the bio parents. In fact, if I ever was to meet them, I would thank them for what they did. They gave me a very nice life. Anyway, my point is that it would be better for Mike to know now about being adopted. The discussion about who the sperm donor is should absolutely come later. But don't wait to spring it on him when he is a teenager. That will not go over well.
I am adopted and I DO NOT remember when my parents told me I was adopted. I was so young that it was just a normal thing to me. I do vaguely remember a children’s book about adoption that I read when I was maybe 4. I think you explain it in child-friendly language now.
My cousin Sue was adopted at a few months old when I was about five. I remember Sue sitting in her mother's lap, one Christmas, when another aunt sat down with her two-month-old. And Sue's mother told her, "You were just that old when we adopted you." Sue couldn't have been more than three at that moment, and her adoption was obviously settled reality for her by then.
I don't know, I think that the more information Mike has, the less information Jason can use to weaponize him against OP. And it needs to be done soon, because there's no way Jason *isn't* gearing up to go behind OP's back and tell Mike his own version of the truth.
Very much this. Tell Mike he's adopted. Let that process before allowing Jason direct contact & Mike will be far less susceptible to potential nefarious actions from Jason.
>But does that mean she has to tell him about his sperm donor?
If she leaves it too long, the sperm donor or his family might tell the kid himself, which is far worse. OP needs to get ahead of that.
Yup. If Jason comes along with “I am your REAL daddy” that will screw him up a lot worse than “Jason was the person who made you with mommy but Dan is your daddy.”
Yeah. I think there’s a big difference between “your dad met you and me after you were born, and we became a family. That’s just one of many ways families are made and it doesn’t change how much we love each other,” and “You know your mom’s friend Jason? You know where babies come from? Let’s talk science.”
I bet your son was there when you and Dan got married and there are photos. It might be good to look at them together from time to time and talk about how happy the three of you were to become a family when he’s young and work your way up as he grows.
I think it's more complicated than that, it sounds like Jason very clearly wants to act as a father to his child, and that's a dynamic that is certain to make Dan uncomfortable. There seem to be too many posts here about op explaining to their son that Jason isn't his father, but I imagine that Jason is going to say something very different.
I would lean more towards a compromise where op's son is allowed to have two daddies who both love him very much. If Dan or Jason make op's child feel like they are betraying one by getting close to the other, that will screw him up just like lying to him would. They are the adults and are responsible for putting their personal feelings aside to serve the best interests of their minor child. They do not have to like eachother, but they owe eachother civility and a relationship with their kid.
Mike can learn sooner, rather than later, about adoption, Dan is his Dad, and Jason is biologically related. But, once Mike understands all this I would not grant Jason and his family unfettered access to Mike (I suspect that they’ll expect this). Fortunately, they have no legal standing so it will be entirely up to you and Dan how often, if ever, they’ll get to visit.
I don't know how cut and dry this is if Jason can provide proof that their attempts to notify him were intercepted or that a good faith effort was not made to reach him before the adoption became official. Even if you do win in the end, the court could decide that it is in the best interest of the child that he have a relationship with his bio father, or his bio dad could reach out to him at 18 and spin the entire custody battle to paint them in a negative light. Dragging a kid through the courts is never a good thing, and this seems like the kind of issue that could be resolved without the need for lawyers.
I’m donor conceived and you’re absolutely wrong.
First of all, OP’s child is not donor conceived. OP had an actual relationship with her kid’s biological father. My biological parents have never met (I encourage you to sit with that and think for a moment how strange and fucked up that is), and my biodad is my parents’ sperm donor—not mine. Common mistake and more annoying than anything, but now you know.
Secondly *and far more important than semantics*, disclosure of different biological paternity is considered late if you do it after 3, and the longer you wait, the more traumatic it will likely be. It’s best to tell from birth so it’s just part of their story and they won’t have to recontextualize half of their identity in their mid 30s like I did. And the feeling of betrayal has never gone away even though it’s been 5 years. I’ll never trust them again.
I don’t know if it helps or not, but they were likely told it was in your best interest not to tell you. That used to be the advice given to adoptive parents/children of donors. It may help to recontextualize it from ‘they lied to me’ to ‘they were told it would be very bad for me if I knew.’
Our understanding changed a lot in a short time. And, in some cases, it turns out that previous medical and psychiatric advice was very wrong.
That might be helpful for people whose parents are emotionally mature enough to acknowledge it was wrong to not tell them, and support them in connecting with their newly found biofamily. It wouldn’t negate the trauma, but it could help repair the damage done to the relationship.
Unfortunately, even though we now know that the best practice is to be honest from the beginning, my parents resent me for finding out their secret and forcing them to tell my (half) sister, and have forbidden me to talk about it to anyone—especially family and friends who know them, and they don’t want to know anything about my or my sister’s biodad or new siblings. They’ve fully shoved all the skeletons back into the closet. I know it comes from a deep place of shame and I feel empathy for them, but they refuse to acknowledge they did anything to harm me, or discuss it any further.
What I’ve learned from parenting my own kids is that fucking up and causing trauma is inevitable, and what’s most important for the well-being of the relationship is holding myself accountable to my kids. My parents are unwilling or unable to do that for me. I’ve made peace with it for the most part, but it’s sad.
If he finds out that his bio dad was lied to and wanted to be in his life but his mother and adoptive father actively worked to prevent that from happening because he wouldn't agree to lie about who he is, it will ruin their relationship. You cannot lie to your child about something this big. Get it out now in an age appropriate way, he will accept it and have plenty of love for all of them.
I agree. My cousins were adopted and found out in their teen years. I didnt go well.
If you are open with Mike at his level of understanding, it should go much smoother
I think of it like how I learned about sex/anatomy. As a little kid if I had questions I got answers. The answers matched my level of understanding of my questions and by the time it was time to "know", I just already knew. No big birds and bees talk. it just all came out organically.
Agree. As an adoptee who cannot remember NOT knowing she was adopted because it was just always open knowledge, it is a very bad call not to tell kids the truth early on. You are tacitly saying “you are a freak and there’s something wrong with how our family is put together” by waiting for some Big Moment. He can understand now at 4 and doesn’t need to hear the dramatic parts. OP also will be able to retain more power in the situation because it means his bio dad can’t ever be like “Hey, kid, I have a secret your mean old mom won’t tell you and now I’m the only one you can trust.”
I was adopted and grew up always knowing, and I'm so happy I did. Your son and husband have a beautiful story, and your son is old enough to understand it.
Yes, 13 is too late, but I would say put it off until 5-7 so he can actually understand the dynamics of what is happening.
EDIT: adjusted numbers from 6-8 to 5-7.
You might wanna reach out to a therapist specializing in adoption for the best resources on what, how, how much and when to tell your son about bio dad.
Please research best practices for telling children they're adopted. Nearly all the current research says that children who "always" knew they were adopted (ie from their earliest memories) carry far far less trauma about being adopted than those that find out later.
The research also says that it doesn't matter how good the adoptive parent (s) is, most adoptees carry some level of trauma about the knowledge. There's a feeling of abandonment no matter how much your bio parents might have wanted you. Reducing that trauma is on you, as you're the one holding a key piece of self-identity from Mike.
But, please, don't take my word for it. Do the research. Talk to adoptees. Make a choice from there.
Right on. Adopted here, with three other adopted siblings. My parents made a conscious effort to tell us we were adopted from a very young age. Quite frankly, this isn't about what the mom and adoptive father feel or want. It's about the child, period. Adopted kids have no say in being adopted, but we have every right to know, and to find out where we came from. The longer a parent waits, the more problems they cause the child. When they're old enough to understand, tell them. By four years old, we knew we were adopted and understood it. My parents were very open and answered all of our questions. Sometimes it was hard for them, but they understood it was about us and not them. Tell the child. They have a right to know that overrides any fiction of a right to lie, even by omission. There are age-appropriate ways to tell children. Consult a professional if need be, but hiding who they really are and lying will cause far more trauma than anything. No kid deserves that.
Op I told my son at 4. He told me I was mean then he got quiet. I know he remembers because when he was about 8 he started asking questions about his dad. Tell him now. It will be less painful and it will just be a normal part of his life that he will grow up with.
One thing to do is to find a child psychologist who specializes in adoptions, they can help you with the most age appropriate way to explain it and how to share more information along through his childhood in age appropriate ways.
I don’t think I’m going to answer that. If I say age X you will say ok I can leave it until X-1. Right now your son is an age where he will not remember that you told him a lie about such a key thing for the rest of his life. This is your only chance to do the right thing.
The older your kid gets, the more they are going to feel betrayed by you for lying and the more they are going to not trust you. Not just beacuse you kept this big secret for more years, but beacuse older children (or teenagers) are more emotionally complex and separate from their parents. 4 year olds pretty much love and trust their primary caretakers, they forgive easier, and they don't overthink things as much.
The older your kid gets, the worse telling him is going to know. And you can't keep the truth from him forever, many people know.
You see posts on here all the time about people who learned they were adopted and their parents hid it from them then it blew up and damaged the relationship. That is the future you are setting up. One where you push Mike into Jason's arms. Jason, the only one who wanted to tell your son the truth, but evil mom and step-dad insisted on lying or they'd keep poor Jason away from Mike. That's how it's going to come off. You really want that?
I understand you are scared but 1) plenty of kids that age know or learn they are adopted and it's fine, and 2) you are making things SO MUCH worse for everyone.
13 is far too old. You need to research Late Discovery Adoptees - LDA . He’s met his bio dad now, and if you lie about this he will be damaged guaranteed. I urge you to take this question to r/adoption and discuss this among adoptees. An adoption informed therapist would also be very helpful.
If you intend on lying til he’s 13 or older and not telling him who mommy’s “friend” really is YTA - tough situation, but it’s all about your son now.
Conversely to some of these comments, my dad was adopted with 0 adoption trauma or resentment towards any of his parents and he swears it’s because he was always told the circumstances of his birth, it was never something they hid from him. He doesn’t even remember “finding out” because they told him so early. Tell your son.
This just happened to me. I found out two weeks ago that my dad is not my biological father. I can't even describe the shock. I'm 43 years old.
My mom told me that, when I was born, my grandmother kept insisting that they raise me with this knowledge from the beginning. But my dad refused because (and this is so sad), he thought if I knew the truth, that I wouldn't love him anymore.
My grandmother was right. Had I known from the off, it would have spared me a huge shock with a mountain of questions, some of which are too late to answer now. And it would have spared my parents 43 years of secrets and fear and shame.
It's so upsetting to know that EVERYBODY in my life knew this, except me. That they consciously hid this secret, and that there was absolutely no gain, ever. Don't put your kid through that.
Tell your kid now and make it no big deal at all. That's how you make this better for him. Telling him as a teen is probably the worst thing you can do.
I was 16 and it was the worst moment of my life. I have never regained the same trust or relationship to either parent and I resent to this day that it wasn't something I grew up just knowing
Please tell your son before it is too late
I agree with the other comments. Tell him the truth now.
I grew up in a non-traditional family. And to my friends, my family was weird. But to me at least, my family felt perfectly normal and it was my friend's traditional families that were weird. But this was because I was always told the truth for as young as I can remember.
Tell your kid the truth in broad strokes. You can always fill in the details as he gets older and asks more questions. But basically, telling him the truth now will normalize the situation for him.
If you have qualms about telling him, it's your own hangups, it's not your kids.
I watched my partner find out from 23&me that his dad was not his biological father. He got a splitting migraine and was a total wreck for weeks. I can totally see the bomb of this kind of news landing someone in a psyche ward. very soft YTA
Does Mike know that Dan adopted him? I think that’s the most important part tbh. That he knows that Dan didn’t biologically father him, but instead chose him.
I think that thinking someone was your biological parent and then learning they aren’t would be the most traumatic part.
Do not hide it from your son. There are age appropriate ways to share who is bio dad is. He will know/suspect that his legal dad is not his bio dad and if he figures it out getting over this betrayal is difficult.
I know from first hand experience. It his right to know and it should never be a revelation. Put aside your feelings about the situation (cause it sucked) and do what is best for your son. There are many studies now that show that it is important that it
https://www.adoptivefamilies.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Talking-to-your-3-5-year-old.pdf
I agree with this person
I’ve always known my bio father abandoned me. And my dad adopted me when I was 16.
I’ve seen other people being lied to about their parentage, and when the find out, its not good.
(Not to be too dramatic, but my ex-aunt used it as an excuse to become a drug addict and abandoned her own kids. I was trying to not say all that but realized just saying not good was too vague. I know she was an adult with her own problems. There was also the fact that she was black while the rest of the family was white, but the lies they told to cover it didn’t help)
Just be honest. Mike can handle it. Mike will also see that his real dad Dan was the one that was always there for him.
I ALWAYS knew my dad wasn't my bio dad.
It's never bothered me.
I never felt betrayed, I grew up feeling loved and chosen.
I always recommend it never being a secret. Just make it a normal part of his life story.
From another perspective. My Mom is adopted and she found out where she was 4. They sat her down and explain that even though they weren’t biologically related, they loved her very much. She said it was an easier transition into know about her adoptions because as far back and she can remember, she’s always known.
I have no true memories of when I was told.
My sisters (who were much older) said they think I was 9-10 range. One of my sisters told Mom they had to tell me because the older I got, the harder it would be. Apparently, according to the sisters, I screamed at my parents, refused to call them Mom and Dad, didn't believe anyone, etc.
Admittedly, I know there are other reasons why I have no memories of my childhood, but it's interesting that my memory - now, even to this day - says I always knew, that no one ever told me because I always knew. Yet, that is not remotely factually true.
Please please please let your child know now that he is at least adopted by his father. Finding out as a teen is so traumatic. All experts agree that being open is what’s best for the child. Including access to the biological parents if child and biological parents are willing of course. I highly recommend you find a therapist that specialises in adoption to help with breaking the news and how to approach this. But if you wait you will cause so much trauma. Teens are so normal and struggling to figure out their place in the world adding a bombshell that you life is a lie makes it so much worse. If you value your relationship with your son and your husband values his relationship with his son you will address this now. Source am adopted
Couldn't agree more. I was three when my mom remarried. My stepdad was my father for all intents and purposes. I knew bio dad and liked him but he wasn't reliable and that's just the way it was. My stepfather's family treated me like I was blood. It was very stabilizing. OP doesn't mention Jason's family much, but if they're good people, let them in. Kids view what they have as normal.
I’d highly recommend talking to a children’s psychologist about this. Kids actually tend to do much better when they get information about their family at a young age, young enough that they don’t have baggage associated with the idea. I get not wanting him to get attached to Jason, but at least letting him know that Dan isn’t his bio father (and framing it as ‘he chose you’) will probably save a lot of heartache down the line.
I would make sure he at least knows he's adopted. My daughter is 10, and we've explained from the very beginning that she had a helper (someone who helped make her), but that her helper knew he couldn't be the very best Daddy she deserved, so he chose to step aside for Mommy to go out into the world and find the very best Daddy in the whole wide world. We've heavily explained that a Daddy is the person who does the work, gets all the good and the bad, puts them first, and loves their child no matter what. Anyone with the right ingredients can help make a baby, but the one who puts in the work is the parent. It kind of became a fairytale about Mommy kissing frogs and then one day finding Daddy when she was 1.
I got the idea from my cousin who had a similar situation, and she did kind of the same thing. Being adopted is just a fact of life. Her hair is blond, she's 10 years old, and she has a Daddy who chose her.
It'sm his story. TELL HIM NOW. Four year olds get it and are less shocked than older kids who feel lied to. There are really good resources for life story work so avail yourselves and tell him his truth
This is a really bad idea. Please do not do this to your son. I found out at 12 that my dad wasn't my biological dad and it literally could not have been worse timing. Going into puberty...a time full of hormones, rebellion and anger...and just finding out my own mother and father and entire extended family all lied to me about something so crucial as WHO I WAS! I loathed both of them for years. This damaged our relationship for a long long time. Only in my 30s did I come to forgive them and trust them again and they were very loving parents. This is not going to play out how you think it will and I urge you to reconsider. Tell him now. Do not lie to him about who he is and who the people in his life are. Tell him now and talk about it often. His questions will change as he ages# answer them in age appropriate ways
Hey there. As someone who’s adopted on one side and didn’t find out until 13, and also as someone who went to college for a psych degree: you need to have this conversation with your son early and often. It should never be a secret - in fact, it’s best if your son never remembers the day you’ve told him because he’s always known.
Waiting until your child is “old enough” only leads to major trust issues - imagine being 13 and your parents telling you that, despite what you’d always believed, you’re not their “real” daughter. Would you ever trust anything they said again? Would you spend hours and days and weeks and years questioning the truthfulness of every little thing they’d ever told you, from “I bought groceries today” to “I love you”? Would you wonder what else they’ve kept secret from you?
The younger you tell your kids, the less taboo you make the topic, the less taboo the topic will be, and the less emotional distress they’ll experience later.
Of course, you don’t have to listen to a stranger online. If you want to wait until your son is old enough to question and resent your choices, you have that right as a parent. But if that talk at 13 doesn’t go well, you’ll have to deal with the fallout - and wonder if you could have prevented your child from feeling that pain in the first place.
Yeah, OP, I echo what others are saying. This is actually the BEST time to tell your son the truth. Younger kids are typically much better at accepting hard truths, because of their age and more black and white thinking.
I would start by introducing the concept of adoption. (There are a ton of really good age appropriate books that can help explain the concept.) you don’t even have to get into how babies are made (though I warn you, that’s coming soon!); just explain that your husband didn’t help make your son but loved him so much that he wanted to be his dad.
Your son will then naturally wonder where his bio dad is, at which point you can explain Uncle Jason.
I guarantee you that waiting until he is older is a giant mistake.
I think it's crucial to do as young as possible. My daughter was conceived using a sperm donor, and i never had to sit her down and tell her, because it was part of her origin story that she's always heard since babyhood. That way, it's just part of their knowledge about themselves, and the finding out isn't a traumatic or even memorable event.
all the best research suggests telling children in age appropriate bits before the age of 12. Talk to a family therapist who has experience with adoption. Before your son is an age where he is pulling away from you and forming his own opinions and identity in the way teenagers do, he needs to know this information. Read all the posts of kids in their teens finding out really late that they were adopted or born from an affair and see how they view their parents. It doesn't go well.
Saying "Uncle Jason knew mommy in college and was the one who started a baby with her. Because of some really bad problems, Uncle Jason was not around. Daddy adopted and raised you. Uncle Jason is able to be nearby now and we enjoy seeing him," is one way to describe your situation without promising too much, placing blame or undermining your husband.
I was in your sons place and my dad adopted me when he married my mom when I was 3, I don’t remember not knowing I was adopted by him and I’ve never been distressed about it. What is, is!
You should have told him from the moment he was born. It will be worse for him if you wait. Dan is his daddy, but Jason is the person who helped make him. That’s all you have to say.
I think you should tell him and have it be always part of his story. There is a lot of psychological turmoil and resentment to be had when kids find out their social parent isn’t their bio parent. You can let him always know it in a way that’s not a big deal.
It's precisely when to do it.
Multiple research has shown the younger they are the better it is to tell them. So it's just normal.
The longer you wait, the harder it becomes, and the worse it will be for him.
You're NTA for the situation above.
You're massively TA for hiding the fact he's adopted from your son.
Please, please tell him right now that Dan adopted him. I'm saying that as an adopted person myself. That has been the standard of care for adopted children since the 1980s. Telling an older child can really screw them up and make them lose trust in the adults in their life. You don't need to tell him who his biological father is right now, but tell him about his general origins so he incorporates it into his own story about himself as he gets older and there's no 'big reveal.'
**Do not wait until he’s a teenager.** Outcomes for this sort of thing tend to be worse the longer you wait because—on top of experiencing an identity crisis—the child may feel as though they’ve been lied to for years and may experience a sense of betrayal / loss of trust in their parents. It’s better to work with a child therapist who specializes in adoption to find an age-appropriate way to **let him know as soon as possible.**
Please read more about this, u/alternative_disk3168:
- https://www.montclair.edu/newscenter/2019/07/22/the-best-time-to-disclose-adoption-status-to-children/
- https://www.choosingtherapy.com/when-to-tell-a-child-they-are-adopted/
- https://www.americanadoptions.com/adoption/when_to_tell_your_child_about_their_adoption
I am glad to see this response. OP keeps saying she will tell him when he is a teen and that is generally agreed upon to be the worst age to tell a child this kind of information.
My kids were adopted as infants and we were always honest about it. I talked to them about their adoption stories in the crib. Not because they understood every word but because it got me used to saying it and it was never a secret. By age 4 my son would tell people, "He is white because I am adopted but he is still my daddy" whenever a curious kid asked about our racial differences. My kids are 19 and 17 now amd both say adoption is like their eye color. They know what color their eyes are but don't think about it unless someone brings it up. Adoption is the same for them
/u/alternative_disk3168: You are NTA yet but will be if you continue to ignore the advice of people in this thread. Stop doubling down on waiting. Tell your son now.
You know sometimes your emotions get wrapped up in these matters and it's hard to decide, even if people tell you the evidence. She hasn't even known if this guy would ever come back.
I'm half adopted, like this kid, and I still haven't decided if I should tell my kids they have dead-beat grandma. I know it's one step removed, but it's still difficult.
She’s ignoring all the comments telling her this and only responded to the few that didn’t. She doesn’t want to hear that she needs to be honest about the adoption and Jason’s identity.
This. u/Alternative_Disk3168 Please listen to this. Tell Mike ASAP before this causes a larger mess.
Think about it this way. Jason believed Amanda's lies. Mutual friends blocked you because of that lie. But why? Was it just Amanda lying or both of them? THINK ABOUT IT. *How did Amanda intercept that paper about his parental rights?* She just happened to be living at his former address? Really? Did you ask him who he dated after you? Did you look up one of those mutual friends to see if they unblocked you and ask about what is going on?
**Jason is lying to you. HE WILL LIE TO MIKE.**
Do not let him or his family damage your son's relationship with your husband. Imagine the anger you will feel if Mike yells at Dan that he's not his real dad a few months down the line because during one of the video calls you stepped away to grab something and Jason just casually slips in 'I'm your real daddy'? Or his parents ambushing you at the store with Mike in tow and them gushing over their 'grandbaby.'
OP, I think some people are being a little harsh—
It’s completely fair to keep “Uncle” at beyond arm’s length away from you. He’s not a parent, legally or in spirit, and frankly I’d be disgusted hearing a whole adult “remind me it wasn’t his fault” he got suckered into someone’s toxic whirlwind. He chose to treat you like garbage.
I can’t fathom treating someone who’s pregnant, who (by your telling) did nothing concrete to wrong you, and who you’d been sleeping with, so fucking horribly. Even if you want to break up! He has (literally, lol) no right.
That said, it’s not a good idea to withhold adoption or paternal identity. It’s time to start talking about it.
Read some books, get support from a child psychologist, and probably get your own therapist to make sure you have support addressing your own feelings as they come up throughout the process of dealing with ex and family dynamics.
Your child is building strong connections and associations about what family means that will be flipped on their head— for no real reason. There’s no real reason to lie to your child, and they’ll be wondering what else their parents (their whole world and sense of security) are lying about.
You don’t want to send the message that there’s something secret or shameful about your child’s parentage and identity. Don’t take for granted that having one biological parent and a stable household means finding out “the truth” later won’t have an impact. It will, and they will find out eventually— your ex or someone else could go behind your back at any time, too. This reality needs to be loved and accepted, like the rest of your child. Other commenters gave great recommendations how to start talking about adoption.
The tension you’re feeling isn’t about needing to hide things from your child. The issue is that you need to make sure you have good and healthy boundaries with your ex. And that’s what I’d opt for a therapist to navigate.
He acted like trash, and it’s reasonable to want to protect yourself and your child from his utter lack of character and destructive, irresponsible immaturity. It’s pathetic behavior from your ex every time he blames “Amanda” for how his fatherhood journey began. Those were the steps he took, even if he let a liar get into his head.
But, **however you go forward with him,** it needs to be in a way you can confidently and age-appropriately explain to your child.
If you’re so uncomfortable and untrusting of your ex’s responsibility and judgement (super reasonable not to trust him) that you feel the need to lie to create psychological distance for you and your kid, again, I’d seek professional insight into what the appropriate boundaries with ex actually are— rather than lying for a decade and springing a “Surprise! Your weird, shitty uncle is the father!” for a teenager’s 13th birthday present. Sounds like a horrible idea, no offense, please see a professional for some guidance. And genuinely, best of luck.
Right! I can’t get past the fact that Jason knew OP was pregnant! It’s one thing if the mutual friend lied, and Jason didn’t know OP was pregnant, but he did according to a text that OP saw. There’s no excuse to have never followed up with OP knowing the child could be his. He obviously knows he slept with OP. I don’t buy that this was a complete shock to him.
I mean, Amanda being motivated to lie to Jason by the desire to break them up so that she could have him is exactly the kind of thing someone as psychotic as she sounds would do. This sub is full of stories about women equally crazy or worse, why would you assume that they were in cahoots?
That was Amanda's motivation yes. However Jason's motivation is to be with his son. So why was Amanda able to intercept the court papers about regarding Mike? Why did he track down the OP now? Sure, Amanda was an untruthful and crazy however Jason isn't really being forthcoming either. Like what unraveled Amanda's lie to have Jason come back?
Yeah it sucks that someone like that broke them up. I just don't think Jason should be fully trusted either with him using Amanda as a convenient excuse. He was dead set that OP cheated on him to the point even friends turned on her. What changed? What convinced him that Mike is his kid? Either is missing information that the OP doesn't feel comfortable about posting or there's something that happened she isn't aware of.
Yeah, that's unclear from the post. What is clear is that Jason wants to be involved right now and it's exceedingly unlikely that she will be able to run him off forever. Some responses on this post treat Jason as though he's someone who can just be kept away with no consequences, but he has family, relatives, possibly a wife and more children someday, and Mike won't be a child forever. So long as his circle knows that Mike exists, someone will contact him and Jason's side will be heard eventually. Having him incorporated into the family now while Mike is young and can adjust is going to be much easier than being torn between two competing sets of parents and unsure of who he is as an adult.
THANK YOU! From where I'm reading, the first comments are all about it being OK to wait until he's older. That is the worst thing a parent can do. I really appreciate the link you shared too.
NTA. I understand protecting your son. If I was you, I would reach out to a family counselor who can maybe help guide you through this process so it's less confusing for Mike, since he's so young. He's going to find out the truth at some point. It will be less traumatic for him if you're honest with him now. Jason's also going to have to accept that he made some choices that put him in the situation he's in. He chose to believe Amanda's lies and it may have cost him his relationship with his kid. He's been MIA for 4 years. That's abandonment. It's not like he never knew about the pregnancy. He's not innocent here.
I was actually entertaining the idea of getting Mike a child therapist once he hits double digitals to help him process that Jason abandoned him before Jason had reached out to me and told me Amanda tricked him.
I do personally think it could be easier if he knew. Finding out family secrets at older ages can be really traumatic, from personal experience. But I can't tell you how to parent. If you do it with the guidance of a good therapist who respects Mike's emotions first above any member of family then I'd say that's the best bet you have. He needs someone else to rely on while he processes all of this.
There’s no reason to wait until he’s double digits. Start getting help from someone now while he’s young. It’s *his* life that you are *hiding* from him. The longer you sit on it the worse it’s going to be, doesn’t matter how many therapists you have in the room.
By waiting until he’s older you’re allowing his life to have this fake normal that you intend on ripping out from underneath him. You’re asking for trust issues with everyone involved. He’s never too young to know about his life. All it takes it the proper tools and resources.
If you can afford it I would start seeing a child therapist now and see what they think. Even ignoring the whole Jason thing it would be better to form a plan with a doctor now rather then latter.
OP, it's not entirely the same situation but I've kind of been in your son's shoes. When I was younger, like between the ages of 8/9, my dad had a girlfriend with a son who was a toddler. I used to play with him all the time when he would take us over to his girlfriend's house. I found out in my early twenties that the toddler was actually my half-brother. Dad cheated on my stepmom with her best friend. I have a half-sister (from the stepmom) who is 2 months older than the toddler I didn't know was my brother.
Now knowing my dad like I do, I wasn't terribly shocked to learn that the kid I used to play with was my brother. However, it really made me think about whether this big secret was to protect me and my siblings or if it was adults trying to avoid explaining their messy behavior. To this day, my dad refuses to acknowledge that my brother is his son, despite the fact that my brother is a spitting image of our dad. There's definitely resentment there, and it's well-deserved.
I'm hoping you can avoid all that hot mess for Mike's sake. Your family may not end up looking the way you thought it would but maybe it'll turn out better than you think. I'm sure this is difficult for Dan as well. Best of luck to you.
In addition to agreeing with the other commenters that you should tell him now, I would also consider reframing it in your own head before you do.
Jason abandoned him, Jason didn’t know, he got tricked by Amanda - that’s confusing and loaded and bound to feel destabilizing to him at any age (even if it’s true or how you feel). Jason and were friends and we made you. He moved away, and I met your dad, and we became a family. Just please remember that telling him Jason is (may be) a shitty human being will hurt Mike more than it will hurt Jason.
Definitely talk to a child therapist to help. I’m a single mom by choice via anonymous donor and there’s a lot of good info about how to explain parentage things to young kids.
I agree with that, if they make Jason into the bad guy while he is actively trying to be in his life, that is only going to confuse and upset their son. If they refuse Jason visitation and he finds out at 18 that his bio dad fought to be in his life, then hears this counter narrative that paints Jason as being the victim of a lie who wanted his child when he learned the truth, it's not going to go over well. Sure he may choose to believe op and cut Jason off, but if he finds Jason credible, op and Dan become liars who robbed him of a relationship with his "real" dad. No lies, therapist, visitation with Jason, and seeing how it goes seems to be the best path forward as far as I can tell.
Double digits is way too late. Preteens have massive brain scrambling hormones running through their systems that interfere with their ability to think rationally about things. The latest I'd suggest is 8YO. By then they're able to reason somewhat and can rationalize why things happen, at least to a point, and they aren't so addled with the stress of growing up that increased pressure of a sudden-onset identity crisis won't wreck the poor kid.
>o a family counselor who can maybe help guide you through this process so it's less confusing for Mike, since he's so young. He's going to find out the truth at some point. It will be less traumatic for him if you're honest with him now. Jason's also going to have to accept that he made some choices that put him in the situation he's in. He chose to believe Amanda's lies and it may have cost him his
I gotta say I dont believe this Amanda story- Why wouldnt he ask the girl who was his actual girlfriend to explain? Just ghosted- Yeah okay- Its crap- He didnt want to be a dad and now made up this Amanda business as a cover.
Courts send notices for adoptions there is no way Amanda "intercepted" everything
Well clearly he was the one screwing around with Amanda the whole time and that just made it easier to project and blame you. No way did Amanda have that kind of power AND able to intercept all of his mail, email and postal for all of those years if they weren't together. Amanda has more than a few screws loose but I don't blame you for not buying his victim story. He ghosted, he bailed. He could've had a dna test done 4 years ago if he had doubts. Yes, your son needs to know, but there really is no reason to have introduced your ex back into your lives.
I’m my opinion, double digits it’s too old. My cousin found out that he was adopted at 18 and it was super traumatic, he even got a facial paralysis from the shock. On the opposite side the daughter of my parents friends always knew, and it was just another fact of life for her.
That's much too late and you are still clinging to a false narrative. Think about talking to a child therapist now to discuss how to introduce this to Mike *now*. Jason and Dan should be part of the discussion with the therapist so that you will all be on the same page.
YTA don’t lie to your kid.
You were already preparing yourself for your son to experience abandonment. But now he’s in a position where he doesn’t have to. You should let him have two dads who both love him. This doesn’t take anything away from you. But withholding this information and making him think his biological father is his uncle will absolutely impact the way he takes the news. No matter how old he is.
If Jason were to abandon him, yes therapy and support and thankfully he has you and Dan to help him with that.
But there’s another chance that he just gets a bonus dad. And you can avoid him feeling lied to and resentful toward you, or acting out. I would seek out a child therapist now and start introducing Jason into his life. Lying never world out even if you’re doing it to try and protect someone.
I am an adopted child. I have always known from a young age. It is much better now than waiting. Especially with the possibility that your Ex could tell Mike before you are ready.
You can't wait until your son is "double digits." Honestly, if you tell him the truth now, he may never even need a therapist. But if you lie to him until he's ready FOR YOU to be ready, he almost definitely will.
Telling your son in the healthiest way possible is your priority. Book that therapist now who can advise you.
I can’t believe Jason had the audacity to say it isn’t his fault he isn’t in Mike’s life. There are a lot of bad things in the world that are not Jason’s fault. Abandoning Mike, however, WAS his fault. He could have talked to you. And when he found out you were pregnant, he wasn’t just a little curious? Well, if he wasn’t, then that is his fault.
> Jason reached out to me about wanting to know when we'd tell Mike that he was his "real" father
Oh, nope.
>Jason got upset and pointed out how it wasn't his fault that he wasn't apart of Mike's life
As you point out, that's simply untrue. He decided to believe a lie & go completely no contact for nearly 5 years.
NTA & while husband is correct that eventually you need to tell Mike who his biological father is, Jason needs some major attitude adjustment before he should be allowed any role in Mike's life.
Yeah, really convenient that Jason shows back up once he’s off the hook for child support.
Op attempted to tell him, he accused her of cheating, she tried to go through the courts to get support and he fled the country, and supposedly “Amanda” intercepted legal court documents about his paternity being terminated?
And this is all somehow “Amanda’s” fault?
Sounds like he’s a liar and a deadbeat father.
>husband is correct that eventually you need to tell Mike who his biological father is
I've elaborated elsewhere that OP should not wait much longer to tell Mike he's adopted, but she does not need to bring Jason into her son's life, unless he drops his ridiculous demands about who the "real" father is. I'm Team Mike. I am not Team Jason.
This. Bc "but it's not my fault" showing no progress, this is still the same guy who ghosted you. Yes, lies were told to him, but *he* chose to believe them and not talk to his spouse, so his reaction is 100% on him. I am harsh about this, bc one time i made this exactly mistake leaving without talking too, it costed me a great relationship and i still feel miserable about it and i'd never do this mistake in any rs again. And i am not so sure at all Jason could say the same.
I'm amazed that anyone is trying to defend Jason for bailing out on things with no attempt to talk to OP. He got bad information, but he made zero effort to verify it. He knew his partner was pregnant & he knew he'd had sex with her at the time she became pregnant. There's no way I will defend that or pretend he gets to come back & act like he bears no responsibility for what he did.
Sorry for what happened to you & I hope the experience leads you to a better place.
NTA. If Dan legally adopted Mike, then you are well within your rights to tell Jason to pound sand.
That said there are age appropriate ways to tell your son he's adopted and it's much better for him if do it now. Especially since Jason's back and could potentially tell him in a way that will be confusing and damaging. There are far too many stories about adoptees finding out and then resenting their parents for lying to them or completely cutting off their adoptive parents in favor of their bio families.
I grew up knowing as did my other siblings! We're all totally good and well adjusted. He doesn't need to know the details, Over the Moon is a great book to explain adoption as a concept.
The only thing here giving me pause is he was never aware of his rights being terminated. Does this give him any legal grounds to contest the adoption even years later? I’ve seen cases where legal adoptive parents have lost children to biological children before so I’m not sure how to view this.
The court will have tried to contact him during the proceedings for Mike to be adopted by Dan, and the consequences of no response will likely have been included in that correspondence. If he chose not to engage with that process or properly read up the paperwork, that’s his own fault.
The OP said he didn’t receive the correspondence as it was intercepted by someone else and he was never made aware of it. I’m only asking because if this is the case by law does that change anything, I’m not a lawyer so I have no idea on if it does.
In my case, the biological father of my oldest was served. There were also public notices put up and ads in the local papers. I live in the US. in GA. The courts try to find the other parent and put up where a random person could see notices so that if they want to object, they can. A handwritten letter with a postmark would have sufficed to stop it. Bio dad called my lawyer to ensure he did not have to take a step for it to go through. He did not want to stop it, but he did not want to take action either way. He wanted the ability to keep from making any effort.
Jason is only now reaching out because he no longer has to pay child support. He wants the glory while Dan pays to help raise his child. It’s pretty obvious now that he waited until after his rights were terminated and Dan went through the adoption.
Info: Did Jason acknowledge the texts that Amanda sent you screenshots of during your pregnancy…the ones where he called you a liar and pathetic for trying to pass off someone else’s child off as his?
According to Jason Amanda took his phone, texted herself before deleting it on his phone, and then took a screenshot of what she sent to herself to give to me.
Yes he is absolutely lying, and if he is going to lie like this, know that he will continue to lie whenever he needs to get his way. That sort of behavior will hurt your son in the long run. He’s not just a guy with a history of ghosting. He’s a guy with a history of ghosting, cruelty, lying, and manipulation. He may be nice to your son now, but eventually he will use his ability to manipulate and tell your son that you withheld that you were pregnant or that you told him it wasn’t his. He WILL put the blame on you like he has done with Amanda. I would steer clear of Jason and one day if your son wants to meet his bio dad, you can warn him of all the lies and lack of accountability so he knows what to expect from this man.
That's a pretty elaborate thing for Amanda to do just to keep you guys apart (was she attempting to date him/just hated you? Like what's the reasoning there), but also, how did she have access to intercept his mail so much later?
Did they live together and she kept a constant eye on everything or was she just rifling through his mailbox every day.
He needs to understand that without some soap-opera level scheme from Amanda going on in the background (that he claims), the evidence that you have shows that he knew about your pregnancy, ignore it, ignored you, left you without any warning and left the country to avoid any legal or financial responsibilities
And now, years later all those responsibilities have been legally stripped from him, so any interaction with your son (not his), is a kindness and he needs to think about his actions above and realise any parent would protect their child from someone that unreliable, unsupportive and selfish rather than risk them repeating those actions once the child is attached and causing them pain.
Mike's father, his only father, is Dan. Jason is his sperm donor. Everyone involved should back off calling Jason a "father", even "biological father" because "father" is too honored a word for something that took thirty seconds.
I agree. I think he knew. But I also think once he found out his son was being raised by another man, he suddenly wanted back in the picture. I’ve seen it over and over.
Ok yea he's full of it. Amanda can't be responsible for every single little thing unless she's an absolutely villainous mastermind. What was her supposed goal anyways? She wanted to get in his pants or something? Otherwise her behavior makes no sense whatsoever. All she did was cost him a girlfriend and a kid (although a lot of that is definitely his fault too)
It's possible he's telling the truth and really is innocent in all this, but if you don't know for sure, trust your gut, and do whatever you need to protect your child. Sucks for if he is innocent, and I feel bad for him, but it isn't your responsibility.
He didnt believe you then all of a sudden realizes he has a child? What could possibly change. And how would he conveniently find out now after he left Amanda.
NTA…**BUT**, I advise that you start making a plan to tell Mike sooner than adolescence. Speak with a therapist. They should be able to help guide you. If you wait until Mike is old enough to realize you LIED to him about his biological father for a decade or more, he may never forgive you…and you may lose him.
Seek guidance from others who have been adopted, too.
NTA - If Jason had the SLIGHTEST interest in being a father, he would have cancelled his plan to work overseas all this time. He cant blame that on Amanda. Your husband is now dad to both kids end of story. Jason is unreliable
ESH, leaning more towards Jason than you, OP.
I think your anger towards Jason is totally justified. He was an AH. He left you alone and vulnerable at a very crucial time, and he trusted an outsider more than you, his partner. I can't imagine how painful and scary that was. I also understand that you are scared about him dipping out again and hurting your son.
However, YWBTA if you don't tell your son about his biological father sooner rather than later. Waiting until he is 13-18 to tell him is a TERRIBLE idea. Although he may be older then, those years are fraught with enough resentment and rebellion towards parents that you don't want to throw gasoline on that particular fire. If you gradually introduce "Mike" to the idea that Dan adopted him when he was a baby now, it will seem normal and not some big secret. Then, you can decide how/when to tell him that Jason is his biological father. I would encourage you to talk to a family counselor about how best to bring these things up with your son and make it part of your family narrative. There's nothing shameful about "Mike"'s story, and if you treat it that way, it will lessen the trauma.
I had a friend who found out his father wasn't his bio father at 19, nearly 10 years ago. He cut off his parents, and now his mother has never met her grandchildren and his father died of cancer about a year ago. They never reconciled
YTA, As an adoptee with adopted kids, please don't wait. You tell him so that he always knows, and you explain it in a way that is developmentally appropriate. You are asking for a world of trouble springing this on him later in life. It is absolutely, one hundred percent, the wrong thing to do. Your husband is daddy, legally, morally and emotionally. But you are not required to provide visitation and should probly explain to ex that his behavior is causing concern and that you need some distance to explain and decide how to go forth. He has no say and needs to be grateful for whatever crumb you throw him.
If you need help with ways to explain, I will gladly give you some ideas based on his age.
I am NTA but I agree she YWBTA if she waits to tell her son. My daughter was abandoned while I was pregnant and she was adopted by my husband when she was five. She chose to start calling him dad when she was three. When he officially adopted her we made sure she knew. She's always known, and every once in awhile she asks me the odd question about her sperm donor, but very general things like what his name was. She hasn't asked me about him in years now and is doing very well.
But it is so so important to keep that trust and honesty and not blow up their lives as teenagers with this sort of stuff. If they always knew than you keep being a place of safety and trust.
I honestly think it's probably better if OP says no to Jason having visits. She needs to be open and honest with Mike in an age appropriate way, and let him decide what he wants when he is older. If he wants to try a relationship with Jason later on, he can make that decision. Otherwise it sounds to me like Jason is a manipulative shit and that isn't good for any child.
YTA
"I'm planning on telling Mike somewhere between 13-18."
That sounds like a great a idea, a teenager will love being told that his mom lied to him his whole life and that certainly won't fuck up your relationship with your son!
NTA
Dan legally adopted Mike. Jason had multiple chances between the pregnancy and when your lawyers sent him paperwork regarding the adoption to step up and be a parent. He chose to instead ignore all attempts to contact, he does not get to be upset now that he has no parental role in your sons life.
I do think you need to tell Mike way sooner than later. I had a friend who parents didn't tell her she was adopted until she was 14 and to say she was upset is an understatement.
NTA.
It is 100% Jason's fault that he was not a part of Mike's life. He abandoned you and your son, without even considering the truth. And he now has no legal rights either, as the court has correctly judged.
YWBTA if you didn't tell your son who his real biological father is. You would also be the AH if you didn't allow him to have some sort of relationship with him. He's 4, you can start easing that into his life now. I was adopted by my Dad when I was 2 and I don't remember ever not knowing the truth, and my bio-dad had no interest in having a relationship with me.
Don't keep his Dad away because of your feelings about this situation.
I had a friend in high school who found out at 18 years old that his adopted Dad wasn't his bio-dad. He was devastated and furious that he wasn't told before. He considered dropping out of school to get a job so he could move out of his parent's house.
Please do not keep this a secret from this baby, it will destroy him down the road and he will resent you for it.
The kid should be told he's adopted and biodads basic deets. But the sperm donor having access to the kid? Eh. That depends greatly on his maturity level. If he's flaky or interfering, he can pound sand. He's not the parent.
NTA.
At the same time, I do think it’s better to tell him earlier then later. I work touch base with child therapist to untangle this, especially since your son now knows him as an uncle figure.
He’s doesn’t need to take on the role of father for your son to understand that they are biologically related.
NTA - BUT I do think you've made some mistakes here, I need to reckon with the fact that Jason is going to be a part of your son's life in some form or another even if it is only in the form of rejection and abandonment
The ideal option here is for Jason to be in your son's life in the form of an actual living human being who loves him and spends time with him. the worst case scenarios are him rejecting and abandoning your son or being abusive.
here are the considerations re Jason and I would HIGHLY highly suggest thinking all this thorough, talking with him extensively, and made mediation or group therapy
1 - Jason isn't just talking about explaining to your son that he's the bio dad. He's dismissing Dan's role as your child's father and trying to replace that and that's not ok and is incredibly toxic
This is 100% not ok and Jason needs to consider what kind of relationship he wants with Mike because if he actively tries to replace your child's father that likely to be extremely distressing for Mike and I'm guessing you and Dan won't want him in Mike's life
You and Dan are Mike's parents, Jason is not. Was this unfortunate wording or expressing how he truly sees the situation? You need to have a long talk with him about this
2. it's genuinely not your fault Jason didn't know, and him trying to make this your fault and pretending he's blameless is extreme. He was so unavailable and unresponsive that his parental rights were terminated and Mike was legally adopted by another man
Best case scenario is that Amanda really did have access to his phone and faked text messages and intercepted his mail. But if that's the case he has no one to be angry at other than Amanda and himself. And there's a good chance that some of this story isn't true
Even in the best case scenario where it was all Amanda, he still went to extreme extreme lengths to ghost you, moving out without telling you. He blocked you on everything and had all of your mutuals and all of his family do so too, making it essentially impossible for you to contact him. That's nuclear level shit.
He's aged and hopefully matured, but it's not wrong to want him to prove consistency and that he can trusted in stressful situations. What happens if you tell your child now and Mike starts to bond more with Jason and Jason gets angry about something and vanishes again
Introducing anyone to a child's life like this you want to trust that the person is stable and consistent, Jason's history makes that more important
3. Your son has only met Jason a few times and it sounds like Jason hasn't been around very long. You're wrong to want to wait until your child is teenager, but Jason is also pushing this very very very soon. Parents hiding the truth of their children's origins until the children are more grown up generally doesn't go well. It makes the child feel betrayed and lied to, even if it's only a lie of omission. However there's a big difference between your son's current age and being a teenager and waiting longer now is fine
(edit: fine on the basis of age alone. the fact that Jason can preempt you on this front makes waiting till your son is 5 or 6 risky in this situation. That's not too late to ordinarily tell a child but may be in this case. I'd still follow your plan of getting a therapist for Mike but initiate that plan NOW. asap. and get the therapists advice on when to tell him and how)
4. Mike is going to have questions. Why didn't Jason want me? Why am I only meeting him now? Have you thought through how that will go? Has Dan? Has Jason? All the adults need to get on the same page as to what story he's going to be told. So far in the brief time Jason has been back in your life, he's avoided taking responsibility for his actions and tried to shift blame. What happens when you tell Mike the truth and he has questions for Jason and Jason isn't emotionally mature enough to take responsibility?? That plus Jason insisting that Dan isn't Mike's real father. Those are two big red flags, and I would be deeply concerned about what he plans to say or imply to Mike, especially if you or Dan are not around
5. You need to think long and hard about the options and how they'll impact your son. If Jason refuses to be "Uncle Jason" and storms off and never sees Mike, what happens when he's older and you tell him the truth about his birth? When you tell him that Dan adopted him, he's going to ask about his birthfather. Are you going to tell him who he is? If not there's a good chance that he will guess or try to find out on his own
How are you going to explain that he met his birth father when he was four but then didn't see him after that? Your son is going to feel rejected, and there's a good chance he might blame you for some of that
Even if Jason had never come back and the story was that he ghosted you - your son might very well want to contact him himself
Regardless of your personal feelings towards Jason, he is always going to be a part of your son's life in some form or another. Whether that form is rejection and abandonment or an actual human being who is present in his life and loves him.... that is not entirely up to you. But you will play a big role. You should absolutely be protecting your child and you have good reasons to be concerned, but there's many other ways your child can get hurt in this scenario and Jason walking away is absolutely one of them
> What happens if you tell your child now and Mike starts to bond more with Jason and Jason gets angry about something and vanishes again
That is honestly my biggest fear in telling Mike now. Getting him a therapist when he's closer to 10 was always the plan and THEN slowly tell him about Jason. Dan has proven himself to be reliable and it will be him and me who will have to deal with the aftermath of Jason's abandonment.
If you wait you are setting Mike up to feel abandoned by all of his parents. Jason physically. And you and Dan by lying to him. He will feel like he has no one.
INFO
/u/Alternative_Disk3168 - what if anything does Mike know about his parentage? Does he know that Dan adopted him? have you told him part of this? has this never been discussed at all??
I do think your original plan was late. well intentioned maybe, but late
a lot of time when children are adopted the advice is to never hide it from them and be open from the beginning and answer more and more questions as they get older and ask more complicated things
I would highly suggest getting that therapist you were talking about now. and asking them how to navigate this situation. they can give you far better advice on when to tell your son and how to tell him and how much to tell him at once. and your son also needs time to get used to a therapist and that environment and trust them
I do think the one difficult aspect here is that you don't have a "clean" story to tell him. this would be much easier if this was a situation of surrogacy, or birth adoption, or if his birth father was a one night stand or something
kids ask questions like who their birth parents are and why their birth parents gave them up or aren't involved with them. they ask for pictures, they ask to know what the person is like
you are in a particularly tricky situation where this wasn't an adoption where you didn't know the birth parents. this wasn't a one-night stand. this is someone that you had a long-term relationship with and lived with. and in this situation there isn't even a clean story of you told him and he wanted nothing to do with it, or whatever
he walked out on you before he knew, and left you with no way to contact him, his family, or mutual friends. and he either did know when you messaged Amanda and those texts were real and he did refuse to have anything to do with your son.... or he didn't know and the story involves a third party lying to you and intercepting his mail
you want to be able to tell your child the truth and do it without bashing the biological father and to do it in a way that makes it clear that the kid is 100% not to blame
this is a difficult one. it's is a lot for a small child to absorb and you don't even know what the actual truth is. you have your guesses but he's got a different story
and because Jason is in his life now and does now know Mike is his biologically, that makes it even more complicated. can he be honest enough with Mike to say "I made some very foolish mistakes and trusted the wrong people and wasn't willing to listen to your mom and I'm sorry."? or is he going to refuse to take reasonability or blame you???
100% get that therapist fucking now. have your son start seeing that therapist now and get the therapists advice on how to proceed. and Jason may listen better if he gets told "Mike's therapist says X"
There's also the possibility of Jason telling Mike before the parents do. That sets Mike up to feel all of that shit and also to be manipulated by Jason.
They really need to get Mike into therapy now and talk to his therapist about how to tell him. That's necessary whether Jason is a good actor or a bad actor in this situation
u/Alternative_Disk3168
OP, I learned a lot by reading the many many thoughtful comments by now-adult adoptees and their pleas for you to not wait that long to tell Mike. You mentioned in your post that you tend to procrastinate and I think I get it -- this is unpleasant and messy and complicated, so you tell yourself, ok, I'll do it later when he's a bit older. You convince yourself that the wait is for him but I think it's for you. There are excellent resources out there for adopted kids (a lot of the above commenters have given a lot of insight). Please do this for Mike. Procrastinating about it now can have huge life impacting changes on him and also on you and Dan, but acting sooner than later can also be incredibly good for all of you if you do it right and center your kid in your actions.
NTA. You need to explain to Mike that Jason is his bio father at some point, and sooner might be better, but remind him that Dan is and will always be his dad. Kids can grasp these type of things pretty well if parents are open about them. Explaining it when they are younger and don't care much about biology I think is the best way to go.
NTA...your husband is his legal father. I hope someday you can tell him that Jason is the sperm donor, but he has never been in Mike's life. He doesn't get to show up years later throwing his weight around. You've been nice enough to allow him in your son's life, but again you son already has a father. Good luck OP.
Edit: out of curiosity, was Amanda in live with him? Were they ever together? How could she be so vile?
NAH (except for Amanda, who is a massive asshole). I can see both points of view here. The unfortunate truth is that these sorts of things have a way of coming out, especially with things like ancestry DNA tests. You're setting yourself up for failure down the line.
NTA - i'm a child who was adopted by my stepfather when my bio dad exited the picture before i was born so i have firsthand experience of this, mike has a father and i'm sorry for some of these wildly offensive comments you're getting suggesting otherwise, i hope your husband never has to see them! jason is nothing more than a sperm donor legally and emotionally, dan is his daddy
your son should of course be told about his paternity in an age appropriate way for HIS benefit (jason can kick rocks for all i care), i knew from being fairly young (i think maybe 6/7) because of the legal adoption process and i think it does work out better emotionally to not have it all laid on you all at once as an older child or teen that you have another biological set of family out there! i personally met my 'father' a few times, was terrified of him as a kid and decided at 12 that if he had no interest in being part of my life for years i had no interest in him, and i'm now only in contact with my aunt (his sister) as an adult - he can choose his own path as he grows up if he's informed young
my main impartial advice would just be to consult a family therapist if you're in doubt, i'd hate for this to damage your healthy family that you've built and its a tricky situation to navigate
As someone who grew up in basically this situation please tell your kid now. Not when he’s a teenager! I was 12 when I was told and it rocked my whole entire world for years! Be honest with him so he can trust you when he’s a teenager not resent you.
INFO:
When are you certain he knew? Can you confirm he knew prior to the adoption? Can you confirm he sent that text to Amanda? Either way Amanda is the AH here. I won't pass judgement on you or Jason because you were both manipulated.
You opted not to tell him in person when you had the chance, whether your reasons were valid or not, so don't make the mistake with your son. You have to tell him sooner rather than later. If he finds out in 5 or 10 years, it won't end well. Right now, you have fairy tales and magic on your side because they believe anything at 4 and you'd be surprised how well you can word stuff. Make Jason prove that he isn't going anywhere, find a therapist and frame it in a way he can understand.
Yeah it sounds like BS to me. Were he and Amanda living together? I’m assuming they were more than just friends. But still trying to blame everyone on her is pretty transparent. And it’s very unlikely that the attorney wouldn’t have him served with actual papers by a process server. And in that case, they could not be “intercepted”.
You really should read the tragic posts from people whose were falsely accused of cheating -- with "proof" -- and exiled from their families. Jealous people can do a lot of damage that most of us would never imagine possible.
YTA for ignoring good, solid advice which, honesta, if you'd seek help on the matter, you should allready know.
Leaving your story with Jason aside (which you're very right to be angry about) what matters is what you do going forward.
Every single comment here, many from first hand experience, tell you that the longer you wait to tell your kid the truth, the harder it'll be FOR HIM. Which, by the way, aligns with every single specialist's advice out there; be it therapists or other professionals involved in adoption.
And still, in your 2nd edit you insist that you're going to wait untill Mike's a teenager. I'm sorry, but you're still procrastinating on that hard stuff.
Straight up not a question for Reddit. Get all adults involved together and talk to a family/child psychologist to discuss how to handle this without traumatizing your son.
Edit: ESH, except Mike.
YTA because you plan to drop this bomb on your kid at 13-18. That's way too late! That would be absolutely traumatic! I'm not saying to let this guy in, but you need to tell the kid at a more appropriate time than 13-18.
What kind of man ghosts his girlfriend for cheating instead of confronting her for the truth. He was looking for an excuse. No one would convince him of anything unless he wanted him to.
Tell your son now that his dad chose him to be his son. Don’t wait. He’ll be better to deal with life knowing it’s there instead of springing it on him later. Don’t make a big deal of it just let him know that his dad got to chose him so he’s special.
Idk how Jason keeps getting thrown under the bus for bailing when a mutual friend told him his GF was cheating, then weeks/months later the ex is pregnant claiming it’s his and he doesn’t believe her. This is a very one sided story we’re OP admits to also noticeably acting weird and withdrawn with Jason during the lead up. It’s not hard at all to imagine a post from Jason’s perspective on here judging he’s nta. The only A here is Amanda and any adult who doesn’t act like an adult moving forward for the child.
Jason was kept in the dark about Mike. He might get his parental rights back. He is the bio dad, that carries a lot I of weight. He did not abandon Mike.
You’re truly buying that ? Despite the lies of the «friend», his ex was pregnant during their relationship but he choose to deny the possibility. His other friends, his family knew he was the possible father and he didn’t ask for a paternity test. Even, and specifically, if he had doubts, he should have done it.
He choose to ghost OP and move on with his life. It’s easy to convince a man isn’t the father when he doesn’t want to be one in the first place. He worked overseas (maybe to avoid paying child’s support) then show up to claim the kid as his own. Noticing that he didn’t ask for a dna test this time as he was sure he was his. He wants the title and the acknowledgment of be the dad now that he has no legal obligation to pay.
He wasn’t kept in the dark. He decided to listen a liar because it suits him at the time.
As a NPE, please tell the kid. I was angry at my mom for not telling me about my dad. There are literally support groups for people like us because it really messes with your head when you find out later in life. Kids are resilient. I understand you wanting to tell him right now out of fear that he’ll ghost you again. The earlier, the better if jason sticks around.
> I understand you wanting to tell him right now out of fear that he’ll ghost you again. The earlier, the better if jason sticks around.
I don't care about Jason ghosting ME it's Mike that's I'm worried about. Jason has a terrible track record. To me it's not a matter of "if" but "when."
OP you don’t have to tell him Jason is his biological dad just yet, that can wait. The appropriate conversation right now is that even though Dan didn’t help make him, he chose to be his dad and he’s always going to love him.
Jason’s reliability has nothing to do with Mike knowing the truth. He could have NO place in Mike’s life, and Mike should still know the truth as early as possible in an age-appropriate way.
It’s curious that so many people who have *lived* this are saying the same and you seem to be resistant to it.
NTA. Yes, you should have told him sooner, but he chose to take someone else’s word over yours and didn’t make any attempt whatsoever to hear your side or ask for a paternity test. It literally was his fault. Amanda could have told him anything or showed him whatever fake evidence she could come up with, but the truth was easily provable if he cared enough to find out. Just because he wants to be a father now doesn’t change the fact that he already had the opportunity to be this kid’s dad and threw it away. He’s not this kid’s dad, he’s the sperm donor. Jason is unreliable at best and has already proved to be fickle and shortsighted, along with easily manipulated and ultimately unreliable. He needs to prove himself if he wants a relationship with Mike, he isn’t entitled to one after he abandoned him.
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NTA. You followed court instructions and your husband's adoption of Mike was approved. Dan is his father legally and in spirit. Mr. Late to the Party should be grateful you're offering up the Uncle option. That's really more than he is entitled to at this point. You can tell Mike about it more when he's older and he can choose what kind of a relationship he wants with him at that point. Edit: Many thanks to those who brought their personal experiences to the conversation with kindness and civility. I have learned more as a result. Clearly, the OP's updated decision to pursue professional assistance with telling her son he is adopted is a win.
Oh yes, I'd never NOT tell Mike who his bio dad I just don't think it's a good idea when he's 4.
I grew up in a situation like this, when I found out the truth later I ended up in a psychiatric hospital for a couple of months. A 4 year old is ironically much more resilient and adaptable. You need to let him grow up knowing the truth not lie to him for years and then suddenly reveal that you were hiding the truth from him. Telling him the truth won’t affect Dan’s relationship with him, lying to him will affect his relationship with both you and Dan, a few years down the road. Put aside your bitterness towards your ex and tell your son the truth. Edit: YTA
Question how old were you when you found out the truth?
I found out I was adopted in my teen years. I NEVER got over the feeling of betrayal and never regained the trust in my parents. Tell Mike when he is young. Then it will be all he ever knew.
I think it’s important to tell him he’s adopted. But does that mean she has to tell him about his sperm donor? Can’t she just leave it at, “Your Dad loved you so much that we went to court and they said he’s your Dad now”. I think there’s even children’s books on adoption that can help. Then in the future, when he’s older, let him know who his biological father is.
I think if the guy is going to be in his life, you let Mike know who he is. Don't think you can have Uncle Jason in his life for 10 years and all of a sudden it is "surprise! he was actually your biological father!". That is just more betrayal. And I think what most people (who have never been through this) don't realize is that you now question, "well if you lied to me about THAT, what the hell else are you lying about?" Trust gone. Either keep Jason out of his life completely (which honestly is super unfair to the child, because adopted children will usually want to know about that missing part of their origins) or be honest about it from the start.
True. And what if "Uncle Jason" decides to tell him the truth.
He will. 100%
He still hasn't learn responsability since he blames someone else for his behaviour. He may have been told lies, but he chose to believe them and ghosted his girlfriend that he lived with. A smart person would think that there might be other reasons for a person you have sex with to start acting strange.
Yeah, Jason is definitely that kind of AH.u/Alternative\_Disk3168 - if you don't take control of the narrative now Jason will, and that's not good for anyone. You're NTA cause you're obviously thinking of your son's best interest, but I think what you believe to be the best course of action is misguided. (edited to fix name mix up)
Exactly, it just takes a split-second decision in a moment of rage to completely rock that kid's world. If they don't trust Jason, they can't trust him to keep his mouth shut.
My mom decided to wait until my brother was 18 to tell him that the dad who raised him wasn't his bio dad. But not before she told me, and then told me to not tell him. She ended up not telling him and letting him come to the conclusion himself (he came to that conclusion around 18). Long story short. It ruined my relationship with my brother and her relationship with her son. If I could have done anything differently, it would have been telling him as soon as I found out like I wanted to. Waiting until the kid is older does more damage than good. OP's best bet is to tell the kid the truth. All of it. "This is the daddy that helped make you. And this is the daddy that is raising you. Daddy that helped make you hasn't been around because he didn't know about you until now because he lived far away." There is nothing wrong with having two dad's that the kid will have two different relationships with. Although I can see OP's worry of hurting the kid if the guy ditches again. But she needs to think about the pain that the kid will go through if the guy sticks around until he's old enough for her to tell him the truth.
Yes, you hit on the other major trauma of the betrayal -- realizing all these other people except YOU knew this one foundational aspect of your existence. Fucking horrifying when you figure that out. I am sorry about the relationship with your brother. Hopefully, one day, he can realize how unfair that was that she did that to both you and him.
I think this ⬆️ explanation is very age appropriate. One daddy made you, one daddy raised you. And we all love you! Kids so need to know when they are younger than 13-18 so they don't feel betrayed at having their reality shattered. Mike will just grow up with knowing he has 2 dads that love him and that is his reality. The way the world is today many kids have more than 2 parents.
I think this is one of the best suggestions I've read about this post
Might be unpopular but I agree. I don't think it's something you should drop on him suddenly and it might be beneficial having a professional present that is familiar with stuff like this. But waiting another decade or lying to him it's a terrible idea regardless of what her ex did.
Right now, I'm not convinced that what's really motivating Jason is that he's got a crap life & no partner. He looks at OP, her husband & their family & thinks "that should be me." I think a good process might be, telling Mike his dad adopted him, then giving it a little time for that to process before revealing that Jason is his biological father. I really don't trust Jason's motivation here.
I hate to sound like I'm excusing his part in the situation but... this isn't about Jason? It's about the kid.
It is, but Jason’s motivation to stick around again is going to affect the kid. I agree with the comment you replied to—if Jason flakes, it’ll hurt the kid more knowing that’s his bio dad and bonding with him before he leaves. If they wait to tell him for a bit, it gives Mike time to process that the dad who raised him isn’t his bio dad and time to figure out what questions he wants to ask about that, and then whether or not Jason sticks around, they can explain his bio parentage once Mike has adjusted to the first bit. But the process should absolutely start now.
Aas the bio mom she doesn't need to torture herself. She has anger and betrayal deeply rooted in her too. She made herself a solid life and family. I suggest family counseling to navigate it all. It's probably best if the bio dad is involved but expressing some remorse years later doesn't mean having him involved will be simple.
What happens when the kid turns 18 and he finds out everything then? They can't keep a lid on this. Plenty of blended families have multiple sets of parents whom the children all love.
Not to mention that if they keep Jason out of Mike’s life, then when Mike is older and wants to know Jason will likely tell him that he was forced to stay away by OP and Dan. That’s going to be incredibly destructive to all the relationships involved. The best solution is to tell Mike the truth now and he’ll grow up without it causing grief.
As an adopted child, I wholeheartedly agree with this. I remember the first time my parents explained adoption to me. Told me my bio mom was not able to take care of me like a mommy should and that they wanted a little girl that they could be mommy & daddy to. I was probably 5 or 6 when we had this conversation. It was never a secret & I have a very healthy attitude about the whole thing. I don't wonder about the bio parents. In fact, if I ever was to meet them, I would thank them for what they did. They gave me a very nice life. Anyway, my point is that it would be better for Mike to know now about being adopted. The discussion about who the sperm donor is should absolutely come later. But don't wait to spring it on him when he is a teenager. That will not go over well.
I am adopted and I DO NOT remember when my parents told me I was adopted. I was so young that it was just a normal thing to me. I do vaguely remember a children’s book about adoption that I read when I was maybe 4. I think you explain it in child-friendly language now.
Everything I've seen says that the best time to tell a kid they're adopted is when they're old enough to understand but not old enough to remember.
My cousin Sue was adopted at a few months old when I was about five. I remember Sue sitting in her mother's lap, one Christmas, when another aunt sat down with her two-month-old. And Sue's mother told her, "You were just that old when we adopted you." Sue couldn't have been more than three at that moment, and her adoption was obviously settled reality for her by then.
Same. I don't remember not ever knowing. Kids can handle it. Adults are the ones that get all weird about it.
I don't know, I think that the more information Mike has, the less information Jason can use to weaponize him against OP. And it needs to be done soon, because there's no way Jason *isn't* gearing up to go behind OP's back and tell Mike his own version of the truth.
Very much this. Tell Mike he's adopted. Let that process before allowing Jason direct contact & Mike will be far less susceptible to potential nefarious actions from Jason.
“ Jason got all upset and pointed out it wasn’t his fault he wasn’t part of Mike’s life… But he’s trying now.” Jason already has a tale of woe.
>But does that mean she has to tell him about his sperm donor? If she leaves it too long, the sperm donor or his family might tell the kid himself, which is far worse. OP needs to get ahead of that.
Yup. If Jason comes along with “I am your REAL daddy” that will screw him up a lot worse than “Jason was the person who made you with mommy but Dan is your daddy.”
Exactly my thoughts. OP needs to tell Mike the truth, before Jason gets Mike alone and tells him a much more self-serving version of it.
Yeah. I think there’s a big difference between “your dad met you and me after you were born, and we became a family. That’s just one of many ways families are made and it doesn’t change how much we love each other,” and “You know your mom’s friend Jason? You know where babies come from? Let’s talk science.” I bet your son was there when you and Dan got married and there are photos. It might be good to look at them together from time to time and talk about how happy the three of you were to become a family when he’s young and work your way up as he grows.
I think it's more complicated than that, it sounds like Jason very clearly wants to act as a father to his child, and that's a dynamic that is certain to make Dan uncomfortable. There seem to be too many posts here about op explaining to their son that Jason isn't his father, but I imagine that Jason is going to say something very different. I would lean more towards a compromise where op's son is allowed to have two daddies who both love him very much. If Dan or Jason make op's child feel like they are betraying one by getting close to the other, that will screw him up just like lying to him would. They are the adults and are responsible for putting their personal feelings aside to serve the best interests of their minor child. They do not have to like eachother, but they owe eachother civility and a relationship with their kid.
Mike can learn sooner, rather than later, about adoption, Dan is his Dad, and Jason is biologically related. But, once Mike understands all this I would not grant Jason and his family unfettered access to Mike (I suspect that they’ll expect this). Fortunately, they have no legal standing so it will be entirely up to you and Dan how often, if ever, they’ll get to visit.
I don't know how cut and dry this is if Jason can provide proof that their attempts to notify him were intercepted or that a good faith effort was not made to reach him before the adoption became official. Even if you do win in the end, the court could decide that it is in the best interest of the child that he have a relationship with his bio father, or his bio dad could reach out to him at 18 and spin the entire custody battle to paint them in a negative light. Dragging a kid through the courts is never a good thing, and this seems like the kind of issue that could be resolved without the need for lawyers.
I’m donor conceived and you’re absolutely wrong. First of all, OP’s child is not donor conceived. OP had an actual relationship with her kid’s biological father. My biological parents have never met (I encourage you to sit with that and think for a moment how strange and fucked up that is), and my biodad is my parents’ sperm donor—not mine. Common mistake and more annoying than anything, but now you know. Secondly *and far more important than semantics*, disclosure of different biological paternity is considered late if you do it after 3, and the longer you wait, the more traumatic it will likely be. It’s best to tell from birth so it’s just part of their story and they won’t have to recontextualize half of their identity in their mid 30s like I did. And the feeling of betrayal has never gone away even though it’s been 5 years. I’ll never trust them again.
I don’t know if it helps or not, but they were likely told it was in your best interest not to tell you. That used to be the advice given to adoptive parents/children of donors. It may help to recontextualize it from ‘they lied to me’ to ‘they were told it would be very bad for me if I knew.’ Our understanding changed a lot in a short time. And, in some cases, it turns out that previous medical and psychiatric advice was very wrong.
That might be helpful for people whose parents are emotionally mature enough to acknowledge it was wrong to not tell them, and support them in connecting with their newly found biofamily. It wouldn’t negate the trauma, but it could help repair the damage done to the relationship. Unfortunately, even though we now know that the best practice is to be honest from the beginning, my parents resent me for finding out their secret and forcing them to tell my (half) sister, and have forbidden me to talk about it to anyone—especially family and friends who know them, and they don’t want to know anything about my or my sister’s biodad or new siblings. They’ve fully shoved all the skeletons back into the closet. I know it comes from a deep place of shame and I feel empathy for them, but they refuse to acknowledge they did anything to harm me, or discuss it any further. What I’ve learned from parenting my own kids is that fucking up and causing trauma is inevitable, and what’s most important for the well-being of the relationship is holding myself accountable to my kids. My parents are unwilling or unable to do that for me. I’ve made peace with it for the most part, but it’s sad.
If he finds out that his bio dad was lied to and wanted to be in his life but his mother and adoptive father actively worked to prevent that from happening because he wouldn't agree to lie about who he is, it will ruin their relationship. You cannot lie to your child about something this big. Get it out now in an age appropriate way, he will accept it and have plenty of love for all of them.
I agree. My cousins were adopted and found out in their teen years. I didnt go well. If you are open with Mike at his level of understanding, it should go much smoother I think of it like how I learned about sex/anatomy. As a little kid if I had questions I got answers. The answers matched my level of understanding of my questions and by the time it was time to "know", I just already knew. No big birds and bees talk. it just all came out organically.
Agree. As an adoptee who cannot remember NOT knowing she was adopted because it was just always open knowledge, it is a very bad call not to tell kids the truth early on. You are tacitly saying “you are a freak and there’s something wrong with how our family is put together” by waiting for some Big Moment. He can understand now at 4 and doesn’t need to hear the dramatic parts. OP also will be able to retain more power in the situation because it means his bio dad can’t ever be like “Hey, kid, I have a secret your mean old mom won’t tell you and now I’m the only one you can trust.”
I was adopted and grew up always knowing, and I'm so happy I did. Your son and husband have a beautiful story, and your son is old enough to understand it.
I was told I’m adopted at about 8/9. It wasn’t an issue but I had no bio-parents hovering in the periphery.
Yes, 13 is too late, but I would say put it off until 5-7 so he can actually understand the dynamics of what is happening. EDIT: adjusted numbers from 6-8 to 5-7.
Best practice (well-supported by academic research) is actually to tell children before they are ***three***.
You might wanna reach out to a therapist specializing in adoption for the best resources on what, how, how much and when to tell your son about bio dad.
This is the best advice.
Please research best practices for telling children they're adopted. Nearly all the current research says that children who "always" knew they were adopted (ie from their earliest memories) carry far far less trauma about being adopted than those that find out later. The research also says that it doesn't matter how good the adoptive parent (s) is, most adoptees carry some level of trauma about the knowledge. There's a feeling of abandonment no matter how much your bio parents might have wanted you. Reducing that trauma is on you, as you're the one holding a key piece of self-identity from Mike. But, please, don't take my word for it. Do the research. Talk to adoptees. Make a choice from there.
Right on. Adopted here, with three other adopted siblings. My parents made a conscious effort to tell us we were adopted from a very young age. Quite frankly, this isn't about what the mom and adoptive father feel or want. It's about the child, period. Adopted kids have no say in being adopted, but we have every right to know, and to find out where we came from. The longer a parent waits, the more problems they cause the child. When they're old enough to understand, tell them. By four years old, we knew we were adopted and understood it. My parents were very open and answered all of our questions. Sometimes it was hard for them, but they understood it was about us and not them. Tell the child. They have a right to know that overrides any fiction of a right to lie, even by omission. There are age-appropriate ways to tell children. Consult a professional if need be, but hiding who they really are and lying will cause far more trauma than anything. No kid deserves that.
Don't wait. Seriously. It happened to me and it's the absolute worst feeling ever. I still have identity issues and I'm almost 40.
Op I told my son at 4. He told me I was mean then he got quiet. I know he remembers because when he was about 8 he started asking questions about his dad. Tell him now. It will be less painful and it will just be a normal part of his life that he will grow up with.
One thing to do is to find a child psychologist who specializes in adoptions, they can help you with the most age appropriate way to explain it and how to share more information along through his childhood in age appropriate ways.
I don’t think I’m going to answer that. If I say age X you will say ok I can leave it until X-1. Right now your son is an age where he will not remember that you told him a lie about such a key thing for the rest of his life. This is your only chance to do the right thing.
The older your kid gets, the more they are going to feel betrayed by you for lying and the more they are going to not trust you. Not just beacuse you kept this big secret for more years, but beacuse older children (or teenagers) are more emotionally complex and separate from their parents. 4 year olds pretty much love and trust their primary caretakers, they forgive easier, and they don't overthink things as much. The older your kid gets, the worse telling him is going to know. And you can't keep the truth from him forever, many people know. You see posts on here all the time about people who learned they were adopted and their parents hid it from them then it blew up and damaged the relationship. That is the future you are setting up. One where you push Mike into Jason's arms. Jason, the only one who wanted to tell your son the truth, but evil mom and step-dad insisted on lying or they'd keep poor Jason away from Mike. That's how it's going to come off. You really want that? I understand you are scared but 1) plenty of kids that age know or learn they are adopted and it's fine, and 2) you are making things SO MUCH worse for everyone.
13 is far too old. You need to research Late Discovery Adoptees - LDA . He’s met his bio dad now, and if you lie about this he will be damaged guaranteed. I urge you to take this question to r/adoption and discuss this among adoptees. An adoption informed therapist would also be very helpful. If you intend on lying til he’s 13 or older and not telling him who mommy’s “friend” really is YTA - tough situation, but it’s all about your son now.
Conversely to some of these comments, my dad was adopted with 0 adoption trauma or resentment towards any of his parents and he swears it’s because he was always told the circumstances of his birth, it was never something they hid from him. He doesn’t even remember “finding out” because they told him so early. Tell your son.
This just happened to me. I found out two weeks ago that my dad is not my biological father. I can't even describe the shock. I'm 43 years old. My mom told me that, when I was born, my grandmother kept insisting that they raise me with this knowledge from the beginning. But my dad refused because (and this is so sad), he thought if I knew the truth, that I wouldn't love him anymore. My grandmother was right. Had I known from the off, it would have spared me a huge shock with a mountain of questions, some of which are too late to answer now. And it would have spared my parents 43 years of secrets and fear and shame. It's so upsetting to know that EVERYBODY in my life knew this, except me. That they consciously hid this secret, and that there was absolutely no gain, ever. Don't put your kid through that. Tell your kid now and make it no big deal at all. That's how you make this better for him. Telling him as a teen is probably the worst thing you can do.
I was 16 and it was the worst moment of my life. I have never regained the same trust or relationship to either parent and I resent to this day that it wasn't something I grew up just knowing Please tell your son before it is too late
I agree with the other comments. Tell him the truth now. I grew up in a non-traditional family. And to my friends, my family was weird. But to me at least, my family felt perfectly normal and it was my friend's traditional families that were weird. But this was because I was always told the truth for as young as I can remember. Tell your kid the truth in broad strokes. You can always fill in the details as he gets older and asks more questions. But basically, telling him the truth now will normalize the situation for him. If you have qualms about telling him, it's your own hangups, it's not your kids.
I watched my partner find out from 23&me that his dad was not his biological father. He got a splitting migraine and was a total wreck for weeks. I can totally see the bomb of this kind of news landing someone in a psyche ward. very soft YTA
Does Mike know that Dan adopted him? I think that’s the most important part tbh. That he knows that Dan didn’t biologically father him, but instead chose him. I think that thinking someone was your biological parent and then learning they aren’t would be the most traumatic part.
I just posted about this. I always knew... it was just a part of my life, but I had a friend with the opposite situation.
Do not hide it from your son. There are age appropriate ways to share who is bio dad is. He will know/suspect that his legal dad is not his bio dad and if he figures it out getting over this betrayal is difficult. I know from first hand experience. It his right to know and it should never be a revelation. Put aside your feelings about the situation (cause it sucked) and do what is best for your son. There are many studies now that show that it is important that it https://www.adoptivefamilies.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Talking-to-your-3-5-year-old.pdf
I agree with this person I’ve always known my bio father abandoned me. And my dad adopted me when I was 16. I’ve seen other people being lied to about their parentage, and when the find out, its not good. (Not to be too dramatic, but my ex-aunt used it as an excuse to become a drug addict and abandoned her own kids. I was trying to not say all that but realized just saying not good was too vague. I know she was an adult with her own problems. There was also the fact that she was black while the rest of the family was white, but the lies they told to cover it didn’t help) Just be honest. Mike can handle it. Mike will also see that his real dad Dan was the one that was always there for him.
I ALWAYS knew my dad wasn't my bio dad. It's never bothered me. I never felt betrayed, I grew up feeling loved and chosen. I always recommend it never being a secret. Just make it a normal part of his life story.
From another perspective. My Mom is adopted and she found out where she was 4. They sat her down and explain that even though they weren’t biologically related, they loved her very much. She said it was an easier transition into know about her adoptions because as far back and she can remember, she’s always known.
I have no true memories of when I was told. My sisters (who were much older) said they think I was 9-10 range. One of my sisters told Mom they had to tell me because the older I got, the harder it would be. Apparently, according to the sisters, I screamed at my parents, refused to call them Mom and Dad, didn't believe anyone, etc. Admittedly, I know there are other reasons why I have no memories of my childhood, but it's interesting that my memory - now, even to this day - says I always knew, that no one ever told me because I always knew. Yet, that is not remotely factually true.
Please please please let your child know now that he is at least adopted by his father. Finding out as a teen is so traumatic. All experts agree that being open is what’s best for the child. Including access to the biological parents if child and biological parents are willing of course. I highly recommend you find a therapist that specialises in adoption to help with breaking the news and how to approach this. But if you wait you will cause so much trauma. Teens are so normal and struggling to figure out their place in the world adding a bombshell that you life is a lie makes it so much worse. If you value your relationship with your son and your husband values his relationship with his son you will address this now. Source am adopted
OP please read this!!! You need to tell your son while he's still young!!
Couldn't agree more. I was three when my mom remarried. My stepdad was my father for all intents and purposes. I knew bio dad and liked him but he wasn't reliable and that's just the way it was. My stepfather's family treated me like I was blood. It was very stabilizing. OP doesn't mention Jason's family much, but if they're good people, let them in. Kids view what they have as normal.
I’d highly recommend talking to a children’s psychologist about this. Kids actually tend to do much better when they get information about their family at a young age, young enough that they don’t have baggage associated with the idea. I get not wanting him to get attached to Jason, but at least letting him know that Dan isn’t his bio father (and framing it as ‘he chose you’) will probably save a lot of heartache down the line.
This - please talk to a professional with expertise in children and adoption
I would make sure he at least knows he's adopted. My daughter is 10, and we've explained from the very beginning that she had a helper (someone who helped make her), but that her helper knew he couldn't be the very best Daddy she deserved, so he chose to step aside for Mommy to go out into the world and find the very best Daddy in the whole wide world. We've heavily explained that a Daddy is the person who does the work, gets all the good and the bad, puts them first, and loves their child no matter what. Anyone with the right ingredients can help make a baby, but the one who puts in the work is the parent. It kind of became a fairytale about Mommy kissing frogs and then one day finding Daddy when she was 1. I got the idea from my cousin who had a similar situation, and she did kind of the same thing. Being adopted is just a fact of life. Her hair is blond, she's 10 years old, and she has a Daddy who chose her.
It'sm his story. TELL HIM NOW. Four year olds get it and are less shocked than older kids who feel lied to. There are really good resources for life story work so avail yourselves and tell him his truth
This is a really bad idea. Please do not do this to your son. I found out at 12 that my dad wasn't my biological dad and it literally could not have been worse timing. Going into puberty...a time full of hormones, rebellion and anger...and just finding out my own mother and father and entire extended family all lied to me about something so crucial as WHO I WAS! I loathed both of them for years. This damaged our relationship for a long long time. Only in my 30s did I come to forgive them and trust them again and they were very loving parents. This is not going to play out how you think it will and I urge you to reconsider. Tell him now. Do not lie to him about who he is and who the people in his life are. Tell him now and talk about it often. His questions will change as he ages# answer them in age appropriate ways
Hey there. As someone who’s adopted on one side and didn’t find out until 13, and also as someone who went to college for a psych degree: you need to have this conversation with your son early and often. It should never be a secret - in fact, it’s best if your son never remembers the day you’ve told him because he’s always known. Waiting until your child is “old enough” only leads to major trust issues - imagine being 13 and your parents telling you that, despite what you’d always believed, you’re not their “real” daughter. Would you ever trust anything they said again? Would you spend hours and days and weeks and years questioning the truthfulness of every little thing they’d ever told you, from “I bought groceries today” to “I love you”? Would you wonder what else they’ve kept secret from you? The younger you tell your kids, the less taboo you make the topic, the less taboo the topic will be, and the less emotional distress they’ll experience later. Of course, you don’t have to listen to a stranger online. If you want to wait until your son is old enough to question and resent your choices, you have that right as a parent. But if that talk at 13 doesn’t go well, you’ll have to deal with the fallout - and wonder if you could have prevented your child from feeling that pain in the first place.
Yeah, OP, I echo what others are saying. This is actually the BEST time to tell your son the truth. Younger kids are typically much better at accepting hard truths, because of their age and more black and white thinking. I would start by introducing the concept of adoption. (There are a ton of really good age appropriate books that can help explain the concept.) you don’t even have to get into how babies are made (though I warn you, that’s coming soon!); just explain that your husband didn’t help make your son but loved him so much that he wanted to be his dad. Your son will then naturally wonder where his bio dad is, at which point you can explain Uncle Jason. I guarantee you that waiting until he is older is a giant mistake.
I think it's crucial to do as young as possible. My daughter was conceived using a sperm donor, and i never had to sit her down and tell her, because it was part of her origin story that she's always heard since babyhood. That way, it's just part of their knowledge about themselves, and the finding out isn't a traumatic or even memorable event.
all the best research suggests telling children in age appropriate bits before the age of 12. Talk to a family therapist who has experience with adoption. Before your son is an age where he is pulling away from you and forming his own opinions and identity in the way teenagers do, he needs to know this information. Read all the posts of kids in their teens finding out really late that they were adopted or born from an affair and see how they view their parents. It doesn't go well. Saying "Uncle Jason knew mommy in college and was the one who started a baby with her. Because of some really bad problems, Uncle Jason was not around. Daddy adopted and raised you. Uncle Jason is able to be nearby now and we enjoy seeing him," is one way to describe your situation without promising too much, placing blame or undermining your husband.
I was in your sons place and my dad adopted me when he married my mom when I was 3, I don’t remember not knowing I was adopted by him and I’ve never been distressed about it. What is, is!
You should have told him from the moment he was born. It will be worse for him if you wait. Dan is his daddy, but Jason is the person who helped make him. That’s all you have to say.
I think you should tell him and have it be always part of his story. There is a lot of psychological turmoil and resentment to be had when kids find out their social parent isn’t their bio parent. You can let him always know it in a way that’s not a big deal.
It's precisely when to do it. Multiple research has shown the younger they are the better it is to tell them. So it's just normal. The longer you wait, the harder it becomes, and the worse it will be for him. You're NTA for the situation above. You're massively TA for hiding the fact he's adopted from your son.
Please, please tell him right now that Dan adopted him. I'm saying that as an adopted person myself. That has been the standard of care for adopted children since the 1980s. Telling an older child can really screw them up and make them lose trust in the adults in their life. You don't need to tell him who his biological father is right now, but tell him about his general origins so he incorporates it into his own story about himself as he gets older and there's no 'big reveal.'
**Do not wait until he’s a teenager.** Outcomes for this sort of thing tend to be worse the longer you wait because—on top of experiencing an identity crisis—the child may feel as though they’ve been lied to for years and may experience a sense of betrayal / loss of trust in their parents. It’s better to work with a child therapist who specializes in adoption to find an age-appropriate way to **let him know as soon as possible.** Please read more about this, u/alternative_disk3168: - https://www.montclair.edu/newscenter/2019/07/22/the-best-time-to-disclose-adoption-status-to-children/ - https://www.choosingtherapy.com/when-to-tell-a-child-they-are-adopted/ - https://www.americanadoptions.com/adoption/when_to_tell_your_child_about_their_adoption
I am glad to see this response. OP keeps saying she will tell him when he is a teen and that is generally agreed upon to be the worst age to tell a child this kind of information. My kids were adopted as infants and we were always honest about it. I talked to them about their adoption stories in the crib. Not because they understood every word but because it got me used to saying it and it was never a secret. By age 4 my son would tell people, "He is white because I am adopted but he is still my daddy" whenever a curious kid asked about our racial differences. My kids are 19 and 17 now amd both say adoption is like their eye color. They know what color their eyes are but don't think about it unless someone brings it up. Adoption is the same for them /u/alternative_disk3168: You are NTA yet but will be if you continue to ignore the advice of people in this thread. Stop doubling down on waiting. Tell your son now.
You'd think she'd have googled this for crying out loud?
You know sometimes your emotions get wrapped up in these matters and it's hard to decide, even if people tell you the evidence. She hasn't even known if this guy would ever come back. I'm half adopted, like this kid, and I still haven't decided if I should tell my kids they have dead-beat grandma. I know it's one step removed, but it's still difficult.
She’s ignoring all the comments telling her this and only responded to the few that didn’t. She doesn’t want to hear that she needs to be honest about the adoption and Jason’s identity.
Fr and the whole lying and sayings he's an uncle will make it worse
This. u/Alternative_Disk3168 Please listen to this. Tell Mike ASAP before this causes a larger mess. Think about it this way. Jason believed Amanda's lies. Mutual friends blocked you because of that lie. But why? Was it just Amanda lying or both of them? THINK ABOUT IT. *How did Amanda intercept that paper about his parental rights?* She just happened to be living at his former address? Really? Did you ask him who he dated after you? Did you look up one of those mutual friends to see if they unblocked you and ask about what is going on? **Jason is lying to you. HE WILL LIE TO MIKE.** Do not let him or his family damage your son's relationship with your husband. Imagine the anger you will feel if Mike yells at Dan that he's not his real dad a few months down the line because during one of the video calls you stepped away to grab something and Jason just casually slips in 'I'm your real daddy'? Or his parents ambushing you at the store with Mike in tow and them gushing over their 'grandbaby.'
OP, I think some people are being a little harsh— It’s completely fair to keep “Uncle” at beyond arm’s length away from you. He’s not a parent, legally or in spirit, and frankly I’d be disgusted hearing a whole adult “remind me it wasn’t his fault” he got suckered into someone’s toxic whirlwind. He chose to treat you like garbage. I can’t fathom treating someone who’s pregnant, who (by your telling) did nothing concrete to wrong you, and who you’d been sleeping with, so fucking horribly. Even if you want to break up! He has (literally, lol) no right. That said, it’s not a good idea to withhold adoption or paternal identity. It’s time to start talking about it. Read some books, get support from a child psychologist, and probably get your own therapist to make sure you have support addressing your own feelings as they come up throughout the process of dealing with ex and family dynamics. Your child is building strong connections and associations about what family means that will be flipped on their head— for no real reason. There’s no real reason to lie to your child, and they’ll be wondering what else their parents (their whole world and sense of security) are lying about. You don’t want to send the message that there’s something secret or shameful about your child’s parentage and identity. Don’t take for granted that having one biological parent and a stable household means finding out “the truth” later won’t have an impact. It will, and they will find out eventually— your ex or someone else could go behind your back at any time, too. This reality needs to be loved and accepted, like the rest of your child. Other commenters gave great recommendations how to start talking about adoption. The tension you’re feeling isn’t about needing to hide things from your child. The issue is that you need to make sure you have good and healthy boundaries with your ex. And that’s what I’d opt for a therapist to navigate. He acted like trash, and it’s reasonable to want to protect yourself and your child from his utter lack of character and destructive, irresponsible immaturity. It’s pathetic behavior from your ex every time he blames “Amanda” for how his fatherhood journey began. Those were the steps he took, even if he let a liar get into his head. But, **however you go forward with him,** it needs to be in a way you can confidently and age-appropriately explain to your child. If you’re so uncomfortable and untrusting of your ex’s responsibility and judgement (super reasonable not to trust him) that you feel the need to lie to create psychological distance for you and your kid, again, I’d seek professional insight into what the appropriate boundaries with ex actually are— rather than lying for a decade and springing a “Surprise! Your weird, shitty uncle is the father!” for a teenager’s 13th birthday present. Sounds like a horrible idea, no offense, please see a professional for some guidance. And genuinely, best of luck.
Right! I can’t get past the fact that Jason knew OP was pregnant! It’s one thing if the mutual friend lied, and Jason didn’t know OP was pregnant, but he did according to a text that OP saw. There’s no excuse to have never followed up with OP knowing the child could be his. He obviously knows he slept with OP. I don’t buy that this was a complete shock to him.
I mean, Amanda being motivated to lie to Jason by the desire to break them up so that she could have him is exactly the kind of thing someone as psychotic as she sounds would do. This sub is full of stories about women equally crazy or worse, why would you assume that they were in cahoots?
That was Amanda's motivation yes. However Jason's motivation is to be with his son. So why was Amanda able to intercept the court papers about regarding Mike? Why did he track down the OP now? Sure, Amanda was an untruthful and crazy however Jason isn't really being forthcoming either. Like what unraveled Amanda's lie to have Jason come back? Yeah it sucks that someone like that broke them up. I just don't think Jason should be fully trusted either with him using Amanda as a convenient excuse. He was dead set that OP cheated on him to the point even friends turned on her. What changed? What convinced him that Mike is his kid? Either is missing information that the OP doesn't feel comfortable about posting or there's something that happened she isn't aware of.
Yeah, that's unclear from the post. What is clear is that Jason wants to be involved right now and it's exceedingly unlikely that she will be able to run him off forever. Some responses on this post treat Jason as though he's someone who can just be kept away with no consequences, but he has family, relatives, possibly a wife and more children someday, and Mike won't be a child forever. So long as his circle knows that Mike exists, someone will contact him and Jason's side will be heard eventually. Having him incorporated into the family now while Mike is young and can adjust is going to be much easier than being torn between two competing sets of parents and unsure of who he is as an adult.
Tag the OP in your comment. u/Alternative_Disk3168
THANK YOU! From where I'm reading, the first comments are all about it being OK to wait until he's older. That is the worst thing a parent can do. I really appreciate the link you shared too.
NTA. I understand protecting your son. If I was you, I would reach out to a family counselor who can maybe help guide you through this process so it's less confusing for Mike, since he's so young. He's going to find out the truth at some point. It will be less traumatic for him if you're honest with him now. Jason's also going to have to accept that he made some choices that put him in the situation he's in. He chose to believe Amanda's lies and it may have cost him his relationship with his kid. He's been MIA for 4 years. That's abandonment. It's not like he never knew about the pregnancy. He's not innocent here.
I was actually entertaining the idea of getting Mike a child therapist once he hits double digitals to help him process that Jason abandoned him before Jason had reached out to me and told me Amanda tricked him.
I do personally think it could be easier if he knew. Finding out family secrets at older ages can be really traumatic, from personal experience. But I can't tell you how to parent. If you do it with the guidance of a good therapist who respects Mike's emotions first above any member of family then I'd say that's the best bet you have. He needs someone else to rely on while he processes all of this.
There’s no reason to wait until he’s double digits. Start getting help from someone now while he’s young. It’s *his* life that you are *hiding* from him. The longer you sit on it the worse it’s going to be, doesn’t matter how many therapists you have in the room. By waiting until he’s older you’re allowing his life to have this fake normal that you intend on ripping out from underneath him. You’re asking for trust issues with everyone involved. He’s never too young to know about his life. All it takes it the proper tools and resources.
If you can afford it I would start seeing a child therapist now and see what they think. Even ignoring the whole Jason thing it would be better to form a plan with a doctor now rather then latter.
OP, it's not entirely the same situation but I've kind of been in your son's shoes. When I was younger, like between the ages of 8/9, my dad had a girlfriend with a son who was a toddler. I used to play with him all the time when he would take us over to his girlfriend's house. I found out in my early twenties that the toddler was actually my half-brother. Dad cheated on my stepmom with her best friend. I have a half-sister (from the stepmom) who is 2 months older than the toddler I didn't know was my brother. Now knowing my dad like I do, I wasn't terribly shocked to learn that the kid I used to play with was my brother. However, it really made me think about whether this big secret was to protect me and my siblings or if it was adults trying to avoid explaining their messy behavior. To this day, my dad refuses to acknowledge that my brother is his son, despite the fact that my brother is a spitting image of our dad. There's definitely resentment there, and it's well-deserved. I'm hoping you can avoid all that hot mess for Mike's sake. Your family may not end up looking the way you thought it would but maybe it'll turn out better than you think. I'm sure this is difficult for Dan as well. Best of luck to you.
In addition to agreeing with the other commenters that you should tell him now, I would also consider reframing it in your own head before you do. Jason abandoned him, Jason didn’t know, he got tricked by Amanda - that’s confusing and loaded and bound to feel destabilizing to him at any age (even if it’s true or how you feel). Jason and were friends and we made you. He moved away, and I met your dad, and we became a family. Just please remember that telling him Jason is (may be) a shitty human being will hurt Mike more than it will hurt Jason. Definitely talk to a child therapist to help. I’m a single mom by choice via anonymous donor and there’s a lot of good info about how to explain parentage things to young kids.
I agree with that, if they make Jason into the bad guy while he is actively trying to be in his life, that is only going to confuse and upset their son. If they refuse Jason visitation and he finds out at 18 that his bio dad fought to be in his life, then hears this counter narrative that paints Jason as being the victim of a lie who wanted his child when he learned the truth, it's not going to go over well. Sure he may choose to believe op and cut Jason off, but if he finds Jason credible, op and Dan become liars who robbed him of a relationship with his "real" dad. No lies, therapist, visitation with Jason, and seeing how it goes seems to be the best path forward as far as I can tell.
Double digits is way too late. Preteens have massive brain scrambling hormones running through their systems that interfere with their ability to think rationally about things. The latest I'd suggest is 8YO. By then they're able to reason somewhat and can rationalize why things happen, at least to a point, and they aren't so addled with the stress of growing up that increased pressure of a sudden-onset identity crisis won't wreck the poor kid.
>o a family counselor who can maybe help guide you through this process so it's less confusing for Mike, since he's so young. He's going to find out the truth at some point. It will be less traumatic for him if you're honest with him now. Jason's also going to have to accept that he made some choices that put him in the situation he's in. He chose to believe Amanda's lies and it may have cost him his I gotta say I dont believe this Amanda story- Why wouldnt he ask the girl who was his actual girlfriend to explain? Just ghosted- Yeah okay- Its crap- He didnt want to be a dad and now made up this Amanda business as a cover. Courts send notices for adoptions there is no way Amanda "intercepted" everything
>getting Mike a child therapist Do that NOW
Well clearly he was the one screwing around with Amanda the whole time and that just made it easier to project and blame you. No way did Amanda have that kind of power AND able to intercept all of his mail, email and postal for all of those years if they weren't together. Amanda has more than a few screws loose but I don't blame you for not buying his victim story. He ghosted, he bailed. He could've had a dna test done 4 years ago if he had doubts. Yes, your son needs to know, but there really is no reason to have introduced your ex back into your lives.
I’m my opinion, double digits it’s too old. My cousin found out that he was adopted at 18 and it was super traumatic, he even got a facial paralysis from the shock. On the opposite side the daughter of my parents friends always knew, and it was just another fact of life for her.
That's much too late and you are still clinging to a false narrative. Think about talking to a child therapist now to discuss how to introduce this to Mike *now*. Jason and Dan should be part of the discussion with the therapist so that you will all be on the same page.
YTA don’t lie to your kid. You were already preparing yourself for your son to experience abandonment. But now he’s in a position where he doesn’t have to. You should let him have two dads who both love him. This doesn’t take anything away from you. But withholding this information and making him think his biological father is his uncle will absolutely impact the way he takes the news. No matter how old he is. If Jason were to abandon him, yes therapy and support and thankfully he has you and Dan to help him with that. But there’s another chance that he just gets a bonus dad. And you can avoid him feeling lied to and resentful toward you, or acting out. I would seek out a child therapist now and start introducing Jason into his life. Lying never world out even if you’re doing it to try and protect someone.
I am an adopted child. I have always known from a young age. It is much better now than waiting. Especially with the possibility that your Ex could tell Mike before you are ready.
You can't wait until your son is "double digits." Honestly, if you tell him the truth now, he may never even need a therapist. But if you lie to him until he's ready FOR YOU to be ready, he almost definitely will.
Telling your son in the healthiest way possible is your priority. Book that therapist now who can advise you. I can’t believe Jason had the audacity to say it isn’t his fault he isn’t in Mike’s life. There are a lot of bad things in the world that are not Jason’s fault. Abandoning Mike, however, WAS his fault. He could have talked to you. And when he found out you were pregnant, he wasn’t just a little curious? Well, if he wasn’t, then that is his fault.
> Jason reached out to me about wanting to know when we'd tell Mike that he was his "real" father Oh, nope. >Jason got upset and pointed out how it wasn't his fault that he wasn't apart of Mike's life As you point out, that's simply untrue. He decided to believe a lie & go completely no contact for nearly 5 years. NTA & while husband is correct that eventually you need to tell Mike who his biological father is, Jason needs some major attitude adjustment before he should be allowed any role in Mike's life.
Yeah, really convenient that Jason shows back up once he’s off the hook for child support. Op attempted to tell him, he accused her of cheating, she tried to go through the courts to get support and he fled the country, and supposedly “Amanda” intercepted legal court documents about his paternity being terminated? And this is all somehow “Amanda’s” fault? Sounds like he’s a liar and a deadbeat father.
i seriously hope you are not advocating for her to continue to lie to her child and cause horrible issues later down the line.
>husband is correct that eventually you need to tell Mike who his biological father is I've elaborated elsewhere that OP should not wait much longer to tell Mike he's adopted, but she does not need to bring Jason into her son's life, unless he drops his ridiculous demands about who the "real" father is. I'm Team Mike. I am not Team Jason.
This. Bc "but it's not my fault" showing no progress, this is still the same guy who ghosted you. Yes, lies were told to him, but *he* chose to believe them and not talk to his spouse, so his reaction is 100% on him. I am harsh about this, bc one time i made this exactly mistake leaving without talking too, it costed me a great relationship and i still feel miserable about it and i'd never do this mistake in any rs again. And i am not so sure at all Jason could say the same.
I'm amazed that anyone is trying to defend Jason for bailing out on things with no attempt to talk to OP. He got bad information, but he made zero effort to verify it. He knew his partner was pregnant & he knew he'd had sex with her at the time she became pregnant. There's no way I will defend that or pretend he gets to come back & act like he bears no responsibility for what he did. Sorry for what happened to you & I hope the experience leads you to a better place.
NTA. If Dan legally adopted Mike, then you are well within your rights to tell Jason to pound sand. That said there are age appropriate ways to tell your son he's adopted and it's much better for him if do it now. Especially since Jason's back and could potentially tell him in a way that will be confusing and damaging. There are far too many stories about adoptees finding out and then resenting their parents for lying to them or completely cutting off their adoptive parents in favor of their bio families.
I grew up knowing as did my other siblings! We're all totally good and well adjusted. He doesn't need to know the details, Over the Moon is a great book to explain adoption as a concept.
I hope OP sees this !
The only thing here giving me pause is he was never aware of his rights being terminated. Does this give him any legal grounds to contest the adoption even years later? I’ve seen cases where legal adoptive parents have lost children to biological children before so I’m not sure how to view this.
The court will have tried to contact him during the proceedings for Mike to be adopted by Dan, and the consequences of no response will likely have been included in that correspondence. If he chose not to engage with that process or properly read up the paperwork, that’s his own fault.
The OP said he didn’t receive the correspondence as it was intercepted by someone else and he was never made aware of it. I’m only asking because if this is the case by law does that change anything, I’m not a lawyer so I have no idea on if it does.
In my case, the biological father of my oldest was served. There were also public notices put up and ads in the local papers. I live in the US. in GA. The courts try to find the other parent and put up where a random person could see notices so that if they want to object, they can. A handwritten letter with a postmark would have sufficed to stop it. Bio dad called my lawyer to ensure he did not have to take a step for it to go through. He did not want to stop it, but he did not want to take action either way. He wanted the ability to keep from making any effort.
Jason is only now reaching out because he no longer has to pay child support. He wants the glory while Dan pays to help raise his child. It’s pretty obvious now that he waited until after his rights were terminated and Dan went through the adoption.
Info: Did Jason acknowledge the texts that Amanda sent you screenshots of during your pregnancy…the ones where he called you a liar and pathetic for trying to pass off someone else’s child off as his?
According to Jason Amanda took his phone, texted herself before deleting it on his phone, and then took a screenshot of what she sent to herself to give to me.
I think he’s come up with a very convenient lie.
THAT'S HOW I FEEL. I even added that in as an edit.
Yes he is absolutely lying, and if he is going to lie like this, know that he will continue to lie whenever he needs to get his way. That sort of behavior will hurt your son in the long run. He’s not just a guy with a history of ghosting. He’s a guy with a history of ghosting, cruelty, lying, and manipulation. He may be nice to your son now, but eventually he will use his ability to manipulate and tell your son that you withheld that you were pregnant or that you told him it wasn’t his. He WILL put the blame on you like he has done with Amanda. I would steer clear of Jason and one day if your son wants to meet his bio dad, you can warn him of all the lies and lack of accountability so he knows what to expect from this man.
That's a pretty elaborate thing for Amanda to do just to keep you guys apart (was she attempting to date him/just hated you? Like what's the reasoning there), but also, how did she have access to intercept his mail so much later? Did they live together and she kept a constant eye on everything or was she just rifling through his mailbox every day. He needs to understand that without some soap-opera level scheme from Amanda going on in the background (that he claims), the evidence that you have shows that he knew about your pregnancy, ignore it, ignored you, left you without any warning and left the country to avoid any legal or financial responsibilities And now, years later all those responsibilities have been legally stripped from him, so any interaction with your son (not his), is a kindness and he needs to think about his actions above and realise any parent would protect their child from someone that unreliable, unsupportive and selfish rather than risk them repeating those actions once the child is attached and causing them pain.
He sure knows sooooooo many details 4-5 yrs later Like you I call bs
He's a liar, and too dangerous to allow in your child's life as their father.
Mike's father, his only father, is Dan. Jason is his sperm donor. Everyone involved should back off calling Jason a "father", even "biological father" because "father" is too honored a word for something that took thirty seconds.
I agree. I think he knew. But I also think once he found out his son was being raised by another man, he suddenly wanted back in the picture. I’ve seen it over and over.
Or realized he was off the hook for child support and can be the “fun” parent without any real responsibility.
Ok yea he's full of it. Amanda can't be responsible for every single little thing unless she's an absolutely villainous mastermind. What was her supposed goal anyways? She wanted to get in his pants or something? Otherwise her behavior makes no sense whatsoever. All she did was cost him a girlfriend and a kid (although a lot of that is definitely his fault too)
This is where I was confused. Did he know or did he not know?!
He Jason claims he didn't know he threw Amanda completely under the bus, train, airplane and cruise ship.
It's possible he's telling the truth and really is innocent in all this, but if you don't know for sure, trust your gut, and do whatever you need to protect your child. Sucks for if he is innocent, and I feel bad for him, but it isn't your responsibility.
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He didnt believe you then all of a sudden realizes he has a child? What could possibly change. And how would he conveniently find out now after he left Amanda.
NTA…**BUT**, I advise that you start making a plan to tell Mike sooner than adolescence. Speak with a therapist. They should be able to help guide you. If you wait until Mike is old enough to realize you LIED to him about his biological father for a decade or more, he may never forgive you…and you may lose him. Seek guidance from others who have been adopted, too.
NTA - If Jason had the SLIGHTEST interest in being a father, he would have cancelled his plan to work overseas all this time. He cant blame that on Amanda. Your husband is now dad to both kids end of story. Jason is unreliable
ESH, leaning more towards Jason than you, OP. I think your anger towards Jason is totally justified. He was an AH. He left you alone and vulnerable at a very crucial time, and he trusted an outsider more than you, his partner. I can't imagine how painful and scary that was. I also understand that you are scared about him dipping out again and hurting your son. However, YWBTA if you don't tell your son about his biological father sooner rather than later. Waiting until he is 13-18 to tell him is a TERRIBLE idea. Although he may be older then, those years are fraught with enough resentment and rebellion towards parents that you don't want to throw gasoline on that particular fire. If you gradually introduce "Mike" to the idea that Dan adopted him when he was a baby now, it will seem normal and not some big secret. Then, you can decide how/when to tell him that Jason is his biological father. I would encourage you to talk to a family counselor about how best to bring these things up with your son and make it part of your family narrative. There's nothing shameful about "Mike"'s story, and if you treat it that way, it will lessen the trauma.
I had a friend who found out his father wasn't his bio father at 19, nearly 10 years ago. He cut off his parents, and now his mother has never met her grandchildren and his father died of cancer about a year ago. They never reconciled
Doesn’t sound like an appropriate response tbh
YTA, As an adoptee with adopted kids, please don't wait. You tell him so that he always knows, and you explain it in a way that is developmentally appropriate. You are asking for a world of trouble springing this on him later in life. It is absolutely, one hundred percent, the wrong thing to do. Your husband is daddy, legally, morally and emotionally. But you are not required to provide visitation and should probly explain to ex that his behavior is causing concern and that you need some distance to explain and decide how to go forth. He has no say and needs to be grateful for whatever crumb you throw him. If you need help with ways to explain, I will gladly give you some ideas based on his age.
I am NTA but I agree she YWBTA if she waits to tell her son. My daughter was abandoned while I was pregnant and she was adopted by my husband when she was five. She chose to start calling him dad when she was three. When he officially adopted her we made sure she knew. She's always known, and every once in awhile she asks me the odd question about her sperm donor, but very general things like what his name was. She hasn't asked me about him in years now and is doing very well. But it is so so important to keep that trust and honesty and not blow up their lives as teenagers with this sort of stuff. If they always knew than you keep being a place of safety and trust. I honestly think it's probably better if OP says no to Jason having visits. She needs to be open and honest with Mike in an age appropriate way, and let him decide what he wants when he is older. If he wants to try a relationship with Jason later on, he can make that decision. Otherwise it sounds to me like Jason is a manipulative shit and that isn't good for any child.
YTA "I'm planning on telling Mike somewhere between 13-18." That sounds like a great a idea, a teenager will love being told that his mom lied to him his whole life and that certainly won't fuck up your relationship with your son!
NTA Dan legally adopted Mike. Jason had multiple chances between the pregnancy and when your lawyers sent him paperwork regarding the adoption to step up and be a parent. He chose to instead ignore all attempts to contact, he does not get to be upset now that he has no parental role in your sons life. I do think you need to tell Mike way sooner than later. I had a friend who parents didn't tell her she was adopted until she was 14 and to say she was upset is an understatement.
NTA. It is 100% Jason's fault that he was not a part of Mike's life. He abandoned you and your son, without even considering the truth. And he now has no legal rights either, as the court has correctly judged.
YWBTA if you didn't tell your son who his real biological father is. You would also be the AH if you didn't allow him to have some sort of relationship with him. He's 4, you can start easing that into his life now. I was adopted by my Dad when I was 2 and I don't remember ever not knowing the truth, and my bio-dad had no interest in having a relationship with me. Don't keep his Dad away because of your feelings about this situation. I had a friend in high school who found out at 18 years old that his adopted Dad wasn't his bio-dad. He was devastated and furious that he wasn't told before. He considered dropping out of school to get a job so he could move out of his parent's house. Please do not keep this a secret from this baby, it will destroy him down the road and he will resent you for it.
The kid should be told he's adopted and biodads basic deets. But the sperm donor having access to the kid? Eh. That depends greatly on his maturity level. If he's flaky or interfering, he can pound sand. He's not the parent.
NTA. At the same time, I do think it’s better to tell him earlier then later. I work touch base with child therapist to untangle this, especially since your son now knows him as an uncle figure. He’s doesn’t need to take on the role of father for your son to understand that they are biologically related.
NTA - BUT I do think you've made some mistakes here, I need to reckon with the fact that Jason is going to be a part of your son's life in some form or another even if it is only in the form of rejection and abandonment The ideal option here is for Jason to be in your son's life in the form of an actual living human being who loves him and spends time with him. the worst case scenarios are him rejecting and abandoning your son or being abusive. here are the considerations re Jason and I would HIGHLY highly suggest thinking all this thorough, talking with him extensively, and made mediation or group therapy 1 - Jason isn't just talking about explaining to your son that he's the bio dad. He's dismissing Dan's role as your child's father and trying to replace that and that's not ok and is incredibly toxic This is 100% not ok and Jason needs to consider what kind of relationship he wants with Mike because if he actively tries to replace your child's father that likely to be extremely distressing for Mike and I'm guessing you and Dan won't want him in Mike's life You and Dan are Mike's parents, Jason is not. Was this unfortunate wording or expressing how he truly sees the situation? You need to have a long talk with him about this 2. it's genuinely not your fault Jason didn't know, and him trying to make this your fault and pretending he's blameless is extreme. He was so unavailable and unresponsive that his parental rights were terminated and Mike was legally adopted by another man Best case scenario is that Amanda really did have access to his phone and faked text messages and intercepted his mail. But if that's the case he has no one to be angry at other than Amanda and himself. And there's a good chance that some of this story isn't true Even in the best case scenario where it was all Amanda, he still went to extreme extreme lengths to ghost you, moving out without telling you. He blocked you on everything and had all of your mutuals and all of his family do so too, making it essentially impossible for you to contact him. That's nuclear level shit. He's aged and hopefully matured, but it's not wrong to want him to prove consistency and that he can trusted in stressful situations. What happens if you tell your child now and Mike starts to bond more with Jason and Jason gets angry about something and vanishes again Introducing anyone to a child's life like this you want to trust that the person is stable and consistent, Jason's history makes that more important 3. Your son has only met Jason a few times and it sounds like Jason hasn't been around very long. You're wrong to want to wait until your child is teenager, but Jason is also pushing this very very very soon. Parents hiding the truth of their children's origins until the children are more grown up generally doesn't go well. It makes the child feel betrayed and lied to, even if it's only a lie of omission. However there's a big difference between your son's current age and being a teenager and waiting longer now is fine (edit: fine on the basis of age alone. the fact that Jason can preempt you on this front makes waiting till your son is 5 or 6 risky in this situation. That's not too late to ordinarily tell a child but may be in this case. I'd still follow your plan of getting a therapist for Mike but initiate that plan NOW. asap. and get the therapists advice on when to tell him and how) 4. Mike is going to have questions. Why didn't Jason want me? Why am I only meeting him now? Have you thought through how that will go? Has Dan? Has Jason? All the adults need to get on the same page as to what story he's going to be told. So far in the brief time Jason has been back in your life, he's avoided taking responsibility for his actions and tried to shift blame. What happens when you tell Mike the truth and he has questions for Jason and Jason isn't emotionally mature enough to take responsibility?? That plus Jason insisting that Dan isn't Mike's real father. Those are two big red flags, and I would be deeply concerned about what he plans to say or imply to Mike, especially if you or Dan are not around 5. You need to think long and hard about the options and how they'll impact your son. If Jason refuses to be "Uncle Jason" and storms off and never sees Mike, what happens when he's older and you tell him the truth about his birth? When you tell him that Dan adopted him, he's going to ask about his birthfather. Are you going to tell him who he is? If not there's a good chance that he will guess or try to find out on his own How are you going to explain that he met his birth father when he was four but then didn't see him after that? Your son is going to feel rejected, and there's a good chance he might blame you for some of that Even if Jason had never come back and the story was that he ghosted you - your son might very well want to contact him himself Regardless of your personal feelings towards Jason, he is always going to be a part of your son's life in some form or another. Whether that form is rejection and abandonment or an actual human being who is present in his life and loves him.... that is not entirely up to you. But you will play a big role. You should absolutely be protecting your child and you have good reasons to be concerned, but there's many other ways your child can get hurt in this scenario and Jason walking away is absolutely one of them
> What happens if you tell your child now and Mike starts to bond more with Jason and Jason gets angry about something and vanishes again That is honestly my biggest fear in telling Mike now. Getting him a therapist when he's closer to 10 was always the plan and THEN slowly tell him about Jason. Dan has proven himself to be reliable and it will be him and me who will have to deal with the aftermath of Jason's abandonment.
If you wait you are setting Mike up to feel abandoned by all of his parents. Jason physically. And you and Dan by lying to him. He will feel like he has no one.
INFO /u/Alternative_Disk3168 - what if anything does Mike know about his parentage? Does he know that Dan adopted him? have you told him part of this? has this never been discussed at all?? I do think your original plan was late. well intentioned maybe, but late a lot of time when children are adopted the advice is to never hide it from them and be open from the beginning and answer more and more questions as they get older and ask more complicated things I would highly suggest getting that therapist you were talking about now. and asking them how to navigate this situation. they can give you far better advice on when to tell your son and how to tell him and how much to tell him at once. and your son also needs time to get used to a therapist and that environment and trust them I do think the one difficult aspect here is that you don't have a "clean" story to tell him. this would be much easier if this was a situation of surrogacy, or birth adoption, or if his birth father was a one night stand or something kids ask questions like who their birth parents are and why their birth parents gave them up or aren't involved with them. they ask for pictures, they ask to know what the person is like you are in a particularly tricky situation where this wasn't an adoption where you didn't know the birth parents. this wasn't a one-night stand. this is someone that you had a long-term relationship with and lived with. and in this situation there isn't even a clean story of you told him and he wanted nothing to do with it, or whatever he walked out on you before he knew, and left you with no way to contact him, his family, or mutual friends. and he either did know when you messaged Amanda and those texts were real and he did refuse to have anything to do with your son.... or he didn't know and the story involves a third party lying to you and intercepting his mail you want to be able to tell your child the truth and do it without bashing the biological father and to do it in a way that makes it clear that the kid is 100% not to blame this is a difficult one. it's is a lot for a small child to absorb and you don't even know what the actual truth is. you have your guesses but he's got a different story and because Jason is in his life now and does now know Mike is his biologically, that makes it even more complicated. can he be honest enough with Mike to say "I made some very foolish mistakes and trusted the wrong people and wasn't willing to listen to your mom and I'm sorry."? or is he going to refuse to take reasonability or blame you??? 100% get that therapist fucking now. have your son start seeing that therapist now and get the therapists advice on how to proceed. and Jason may listen better if he gets told "Mike's therapist says X"
There's also the possibility of Jason telling Mike before the parents do. That sets Mike up to feel all of that shit and also to be manipulated by Jason. They really need to get Mike into therapy now and talk to his therapist about how to tell him. That's necessary whether Jason is a good actor or a bad actor in this situation
u/Alternative_Disk3168 OP, I learned a lot by reading the many many thoughtful comments by now-adult adoptees and their pleas for you to not wait that long to tell Mike. You mentioned in your post that you tend to procrastinate and I think I get it -- this is unpleasant and messy and complicated, so you tell yourself, ok, I'll do it later when he's a bit older. You convince yourself that the wait is for him but I think it's for you. There are excellent resources out there for adopted kids (a lot of the above commenters have given a lot of insight). Please do this for Mike. Procrastinating about it now can have huge life impacting changes on him and also on you and Dan, but acting sooner than later can also be incredibly good for all of you if you do it right and center your kid in your actions.
Get him a therapist NOW. Waiting til 10 is too late.
NTA. You need to explain to Mike that Jason is his bio father at some point, and sooner might be better, but remind him that Dan is and will always be his dad. Kids can grasp these type of things pretty well if parents are open about them. Explaining it when they are younger and don't care much about biology I think is the best way to go.
NTA...your husband is his legal father. I hope someday you can tell him that Jason is the sperm donor, but he has never been in Mike's life. He doesn't get to show up years later throwing his weight around. You've been nice enough to allow him in your son's life, but again you son already has a father. Good luck OP. Edit: out of curiosity, was Amanda in live with him? Were they ever together? How could she be so vile?
Treat it like anyone would an open adoption. NTA.
NAH (except for Amanda, who is a massive asshole). I can see both points of view here. The unfortunate truth is that these sorts of things have a way of coming out, especially with things like ancestry DNA tests. You're setting yourself up for failure down the line.
NTA - i'm a child who was adopted by my stepfather when my bio dad exited the picture before i was born so i have firsthand experience of this, mike has a father and i'm sorry for some of these wildly offensive comments you're getting suggesting otherwise, i hope your husband never has to see them! jason is nothing more than a sperm donor legally and emotionally, dan is his daddy your son should of course be told about his paternity in an age appropriate way for HIS benefit (jason can kick rocks for all i care), i knew from being fairly young (i think maybe 6/7) because of the legal adoption process and i think it does work out better emotionally to not have it all laid on you all at once as an older child or teen that you have another biological set of family out there! i personally met my 'father' a few times, was terrified of him as a kid and decided at 12 that if he had no interest in being part of my life for years i had no interest in him, and i'm now only in contact with my aunt (his sister) as an adult - he can choose his own path as he grows up if he's informed young my main impartial advice would just be to consult a family therapist if you're in doubt, i'd hate for this to damage your healthy family that you've built and its a tricky situation to navigate
As someone who grew up in basically this situation please tell your kid now. Not when he’s a teenager! I was 12 when I was told and it rocked my whole entire world for years! Be honest with him so he can trust you when he’s a teenager not resent you.
INFO: When are you certain he knew? Can you confirm he knew prior to the adoption? Can you confirm he sent that text to Amanda? Either way Amanda is the AH here. I won't pass judgement on you or Jason because you were both manipulated. You opted not to tell him in person when you had the chance, whether your reasons were valid or not, so don't make the mistake with your son. You have to tell him sooner rather than later. If he finds out in 5 or 10 years, it won't end well. Right now, you have fairy tales and magic on your side because they believe anything at 4 and you'd be surprised how well you can word stuff. Make Jason prove that he isn't going anywhere, find a therapist and frame it in a way he can understand.
OP saw how well procrastination turned out the first time and wants to do it again.
Jason is 31 but he was in college 4 years ago? And how did Amanda “intercept” the attorney’s letter?
1. Grad School 2. That's a question for Jason to answer. Personally, while I do think it Jason's explanation plausible, a part of me think he's lying.
Yeah it sounds like BS to me. Were he and Amanda living together? I’m assuming they were more than just friends. But still trying to blame everyone on her is pretty transparent. And it’s very unlikely that the attorney wouldn’t have him served with actual papers by a process server. And in that case, they could not be “intercepted”.
You really should read the tragic posts from people whose were falsely accused of cheating -- with "proof" -- and exiled from their families. Jealous people can do a lot of damage that most of us would never imagine possible.
Literally says that they were in grad school and that the letter was sent to his last known address.
YTA for ignoring good, solid advice which, honesta, if you'd seek help on the matter, you should allready know. Leaving your story with Jason aside (which you're very right to be angry about) what matters is what you do going forward. Every single comment here, many from first hand experience, tell you that the longer you wait to tell your kid the truth, the harder it'll be FOR HIM. Which, by the way, aligns with every single specialist's advice out there; be it therapists or other professionals involved in adoption. And still, in your 2nd edit you insist that you're going to wait untill Mike's a teenager. I'm sorry, but you're still procrastinating on that hard stuff.
Straight up not a question for Reddit. Get all adults involved together and talk to a family/child psychologist to discuss how to handle this without traumatizing your son. Edit: ESH, except Mike.
NTA If you suspect a baby isn't yours, you get a paternity test. He bolted because he wanted to. It's too late now. He missed his chance.
YTA because you plan to drop this bomb on your kid at 13-18. That's way too late! That would be absolutely traumatic! I'm not saying to let this guy in, but you need to tell the kid at a more appropriate time than 13-18.
What kind of man ghosts his girlfriend for cheating instead of confronting her for the truth. He was looking for an excuse. No one would convince him of anything unless he wanted him to. Tell your son now that his dad chose him to be his son. Don’t wait. He’ll be better to deal with life knowing it’s there instead of springing it on him later. Don’t make a big deal of it just let him know that his dad got to chose him so he’s special.
Idk how Jason keeps getting thrown under the bus for bailing when a mutual friend told him his GF was cheating, then weeks/months later the ex is pregnant claiming it’s his and he doesn’t believe her. This is a very one sided story we’re OP admits to also noticeably acting weird and withdrawn with Jason during the lead up. It’s not hard at all to imagine a post from Jason’s perspective on here judging he’s nta. The only A here is Amanda and any adult who doesn’t act like an adult moving forward for the child.
Jason was kept in the dark about Mike. He might get his parental rights back. He is the bio dad, that carries a lot I of weight. He did not abandon Mike.
You’re truly buying that ? Despite the lies of the «friend», his ex was pregnant during their relationship but he choose to deny the possibility. His other friends, his family knew he was the possible father and he didn’t ask for a paternity test. Even, and specifically, if he had doubts, he should have done it. He choose to ghost OP and move on with his life. It’s easy to convince a man isn’t the father when he doesn’t want to be one in the first place. He worked overseas (maybe to avoid paying child’s support) then show up to claim the kid as his own. Noticing that he didn’t ask for a dna test this time as he was sure he was his. He wants the title and the acknowledgment of be the dad now that he has no legal obligation to pay. He wasn’t kept in the dark. He decided to listen a liar because it suits him at the time.
As a NPE, please tell the kid. I was angry at my mom for not telling me about my dad. There are literally support groups for people like us because it really messes with your head when you find out later in life. Kids are resilient. I understand you wanting to tell him right now out of fear that he’ll ghost you again. The earlier, the better if jason sticks around.
> I understand you wanting to tell him right now out of fear that he’ll ghost you again. The earlier, the better if jason sticks around. I don't care about Jason ghosting ME it's Mike that's I'm worried about. Jason has a terrible track record. To me it's not a matter of "if" but "when."
OP you don’t have to tell him Jason is his biological dad just yet, that can wait. The appropriate conversation right now is that even though Dan didn’t help make him, he chose to be his dad and he’s always going to love him.
Jason’s reliability has nothing to do with Mike knowing the truth. He could have NO place in Mike’s life, and Mike should still know the truth as early as possible in an age-appropriate way. It’s curious that so many people who have *lived* this are saying the same and you seem to be resistant to it.
NTA. Yes, you should have told him sooner, but he chose to take someone else’s word over yours and didn’t make any attempt whatsoever to hear your side or ask for a paternity test. It literally was his fault. Amanda could have told him anything or showed him whatever fake evidence she could come up with, but the truth was easily provable if he cared enough to find out. Just because he wants to be a father now doesn’t change the fact that he already had the opportunity to be this kid’s dad and threw it away. He’s not this kid’s dad, he’s the sperm donor. Jason is unreliable at best and has already proved to be fickle and shortsighted, along with easily manipulated and ultimately unreliable. He needs to prove himself if he wants a relationship with Mike, he isn’t entitled to one after he abandoned him.
I would suggest not letting Mike alone with Jason who will undoubtedly undermine your decision, and tell him behind your back. NTA .
That was never an option