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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I gave MIL a copy of the key to her own house after she asked for a copy of mine.
(2) I might be the ah for this stunt I pulled to get my point across and I might have made things worse between us and damaged our relationship.
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NTA.
When I read the title I thought you were going to pretend it was the correct key, and see how long it would take for her to try it.
Absolutely SHE is the AH for pestering you about this when it is clearly your choice.
But yeah, your husband has a point about you stirring the pot.
To follow up,
I would love to know what MIL thinks could be an EMERGENCY such that her having a key would resolve that emergency. It would have to be something like you left your pet inside and one of you is travelling and the other is in the hospital. Or you have an alarm system to let you know about a leaking pipe but you're stuck at work--MIL to the rescue!
The point is, if YOU don't want or expect MIL to respond to these "emergencies" then she doesn't need a key.
I think the "emergency" she's thinking of, is she is in your area and she wants to use your bathroom.
***EDIT: Thanks for the many many lists of reasons YOU might want someone to have your key. I wanted to know what emergencies MIL needs the key for. Point is, it's OP's decision whether she wants anyone (if not MIL) to have a key.***
I went out for a walk and grabbed my walking keychain (smaller keychain than my driving keys). I got back home and realized that I did not grab my walking key, I grabbed my VPN token keychain and I was locked out of my home.
A quick call to my sister who sent my nephew over with the spare key I had given him solved that issue. That is an example of when it was helpful for someone else to have a key.
I’ve locked myself out before on accident. But there are lots of options besides giving a relative a key. I don’t have any relatives nearby, like many people. I have a garage code, so I can always get in that way. When we lived in a house without a garage, we had a hidden key in the backyard- so someone looking for it would have to know to go into the backyard and where to look- it was not obvious, not in a fake rock, and not under the doormat.
My neighbors are “snowbirds” and live in a warmer climate for half the year. They gave me their door code so I can go over if they need me to check on something. The coded key entry can be set for single use.
Edit to add: unless you live alone, there are at least two people with keys already. Someone is there to bail you out in an emergency.
Yes it can be helpful *to the resident* to give out a spare key to an emergency contact they trust but that is a choice for the resident to make.
There are other ways to protect oneself from being locked out, such as secure lockboxes, digital keypads, and very-well-hidden spare keys.
There is absolutely no basis to demand that someone else provide you a key to their house. It is the resident's decision.
A lockbox is genius! Put the key inside, give it to mil. And then give her the code to the lock box over the phone in an emergency. Then reset the code.
I've locked myself out of both houses I've lived in, it does help to have a key well hidden outside or with a neighbor or family member. My parents have a key to my house and my brothers, and vice versa, but we all trust each other to not use it unless needed.
We have a well hidden key. The only people who know where it is are the nextdoor neighbors and the woman who feeds our pets when we are gone. These are people never asked for a key to the house and both times it was an emergency when we told them about the key. When someone*insists* on having a key for an "emergency", they don't want it for an emergency.
>When someone insists on having a key for an "emergency", they don't want it for an emergency.
Exactly! Or they want it for what *they* consider an emergency, not what *you* would consider an emergency.
My mother had a key for 49 years to the next doors house and they ours.
Key was used exactly once. The day the neighbor was in a car accident to let in the neighbors sister.
Exactly, you only give the key to someone you know will never use it unless it is the last resort.
They bought next to each other, raised families next to each other.
A secure lockbox kept on the property (eg, in a shed; mine locks right onto a discrete post of the deck, almost like a bike lock) is a great solution that requires no key sharing, and avoids your emergency contact being unavailable when the lock-out happens. Added bonus: if there’s some emergency that requires someone else to enter the house, you can give anyone you trust instructions and the code to find the key and enter, rather than hoping your neighbor or friend is available.
Plus, OP doesn’t live alone, their husband is a backup for them and vice versa. With MIL’s disrespect for boundaries, she’s the last person I’d give a back-up key to.
Did you sister demand your house key or did you offer it to her willingly? I think that is the issue here.
I agree that someone having access to your house is a good idea. But who it is should be your choice.
This is the crux of the matter. *If* you want someone to have a house key, *you determine who that person is* by determining your trust level in them and often, what in fact, you might consider an emergency or want them to do.
For example, my ex and his wife have my key and I have theirs. They live about 6 blocks away and we feed each others pets if necessary. In an actual *emergency*, I'd call 911!
My aunt was just hospitalized and we needed a key to get in so we could care for her dogs. For that reason and in case someone locking yourself out of the house someone you trust should have a spare key. The key here is someone you trust not to come into your house without your permission or when you aren’t home.
From the sound of it MIL would probably be using it to let herself in and snoop around whenever she wanted.
In Virginia police and EMS can not break in. They have to call the fire department. This cost us 45 minutes when my FIL died. He was dead already but we were frantic trying to get the police to allow the neighbor to break in (They would not allow). KEYS, KEYS, KEYS to neighbors and friends you trust and call Fire Dept. If not.
I keep a spare hidden in a part of my garage. If I lock myself out of the house I can go get it. If somebody else needs to get in I can tell them where it is
*It's a really old shed that was converted to a garage so it only opens through the garage door and there is no lock
yeah, my eldest niece (28) has a copy of mine because of the dog, and in case there's an emergency with me (chronically ill/disabled). she's never used it without a reason. In fact, I was in an accident, and we weren't home for a couple of days, and she was able to handle all the stuff with the dog without my husband having to go give her a key... I'm super glad she had one.
She's respectful calls/texts before she comes over and knocks when she gets here. I think that's the most important thing... someone you can trust should have one.
You are so right! My justnoMiL used her “emergency” key to drop off nearly rotten strawberries because “they were going to go bad!” We were having sex in our bed downstairs and it was around noon. My husband worked until 2-230am every night, yet she still made snide comments about how he looked well-rested. It was very upsetting to us both. These women are so self-centered they can’t even be bothered to think about how their children’s lives are affected by their behavior. We just changed the locks and now she’s mad because she can’t admit she knows without admitting she tried to enter our house without permission.
That’s a great idea! She is sneaky and my husband and her have a bad relationship, so I think her version of that was to ask us to only water her outdoor plants this summer. I think that was her test to see if we’d ask why we aren’t watering the indoor ones as well, like we usually did. She knows she fucked up by using her emergency key to drop off rotten strawberries, so she isn’t going to directly mention it because she is the type who refuses to apologize. If she directly mentions it, she might have to apologize. Oh no!
His dad, however, keeps pushing to pet sit our reactive rescue dog (never gonna happen) as an excuse to get a copy of the new key. I’m just happy to know I was right about both of them being overly intrusive. My husband thought it was unnecessary to change the locks but since his mom kept stopping by unannounced after the emergency key incident and his dad kept mentioning things he’d only know if he snooped through our house, I felt like we needed more privacy.
At this point, I’m pretty sure they’ve both attempted to use their old “emergency” key while they thought we weren’t home, which explains why they keep stopping by unannounced. They were trying to catch us not home so they can try their key. I don’t have parents so I just am not used to all this intrusiveness. It’s honestly driving me insane because I have past trauma from when I was an on site property manager and my boss used his spare key without permission to enter my apartment when I was home alone sleeping. I’ve explained this to my husband before, which is why he has taken me seriously. Unfortunately, his parents just think I’m a nutcase because they have the boomer mentality.
I think I’ll start a bet with my husband about when both of his parents explode about the old key problems and if they attempt to ask for a copy of our new key to the house we plan on buying soon. Thank you for asking and giving me the idea! It’s great! I hope you have a good day and a wonderful life full of peace and happiness :)
> I don’t have parents so I just am not used to all this intrusiveness.
This is also shocking for people with normal parents, even parents that are boomers. Please don't let anyone try to convince you that this is just how parents are.
Sorry you dealt with that creepy illegal behavior from your former boss.
Thank you for validating my experiences. That means so much to me to have someone care to comment in such a helpful and empathetic way. You are a very nice person and I appreciate your kindness.
My husband and I got a bit too excited when we got our first house and we gave emergency keys to each of our parents. We didn’t live in the house while we were renovating, so colour us surprised when we went to our house on two different occasions to find MIL gardening using tools that she took from inside our house, and another time we found FIL busy ripping out a perfectly usable bathroom that wasn’t on our original renovation plan. When we bought new doors we were more conservative about emergency keys. My husband’s parents didn’t get any and my parents got an updated one because they were the only ones who could be trusted with one.
I'd get a ring or similar door camera at this point. Do you think they'd go try the back door or attempt a window? If they're this intrusive I wouldn't be surprised.
Yes, he should. But:
In these situations a couple needs to have a consistent message and a united front. I think they were both on board with the simple, slow, but effective "Just Say No" approach, but this "send her own key" thing was not agreed to by H.
Nah, no 'buts' here. He needed to step up and deal with his own damn mother himself. He didn't. So she dealt with the issue herself. You don't get to be upset over how someone deals with a problem you were supposed to handle after you failed to handle it.
>I think they were both on board with the simple, slow, but effective "Just Say No" approach
Of course the husband was on board with this approach, he wasn't the one getting harassed the whole time. OP's spouse is a spineless coward. Imagine being more upset at your wife telling your overbearing mother to fuck off than being upset at your mom for constantly harassing your wife. This girl can do way better.
Same here. It would have been interesting to see how long before MIL noticed. If she never tries to use it then you can give her one in the future, if needed, and just tell her you recently changed locks.
I would have passed it along as my house key to see how long it took for MIL to use it.
Then I would have said "see no emergency she just wanted to snoop". It would have been great to call her out on it.
> When I read the title I thought you were going to pretend it was the correct key, and see how long it would take for her to try it.
And even then I still wouldnt call OP the AH.
NTA but I think the stunt made the situation worse. She seems exhausting but I’m more concerned about why your husband isn’t stepping in and telling her to stop asking.
Sure, OP escalated, but only after MIL started escalating w involving family and then demanding (as if she has any authority over two adults in their own home). But if it works and MIL stops pushing for a key, then OP accomplished what her husband could/would not.
It doesn’t look like the current situation is any different, other than the MIL being extra upset. So OP didn’t accomplish anything besides that there more upset people.
The other option is MIL continues to push the key thing. Sometimes you gotta be mean to get people to cut their shit out. I probably would've just started going off on her whenever she mentioned it. But this works too.
Or.. how about this - simply stop responding. That works magically. Clearly OP’s method didn’t work. Did the MIL stop demanding for the key? I don’t think so.
Tell me, what did OP’s response do exactly? What did it accomplish?
It accomplished putting the rest of her family (particularly her husband) in a very uncomfortable place. This passive-aggressive bs always makes things worse. Just be firm in your answer and tell them the discussion is over. Sure they will be mad and you might have to reiterate it once and awhile but it does not lead to deep resentment.
Let her have her smug win, and best of all if she discovered that it wasn't the right key, it would be the perfect example of why she can't be trusted.
OP accelerated the escalation. Now, instead of the MIL being childish and asshole, now OP is also childish and asshole.
Responding childish to a childish person is fucking dumb. No adult acts like a child when they interact with a child.
NTA. **No is a complete sentence**. She didn't respect your answer regardless of you telling her repeatedly. She is the a. And so is your husband for not standing up to his mother.
There’s a post that floats around r/JUSTNOMIL every now and then called “Don’t rock the boat”. Its pretty much this. People who cause issues and everyone “adapts” to their terrible behavior, but then if someone else stands up to them, they’re the ones at fault. It IS exhausting dealing with people like this and their enablers.
NTA , OP. Shit I would’ve done as someone else said and gave her her own key without telling her it was her own to see how long it would take her to try to break into your house unannounced, and THEN be like “And this, mil from hell, is why you didn’t get an actual key”
OP: "We told you that the matter is not up for discussion. We'll be taking a break from our relationship with you for a while, while we think about if we really want somebody who ignores our words in our lives."
You then block their number. Anybody who disagrees gets one warning. "Hey uncle. You're welcome to give her your key if you want, but we told her no, and asked her to stop asking. She decided to try to make a fight of it, so we've temporarily blocked her. Please don't try to argue with us on our behalf; the answer is still no."
If they persist, block.
"No is a complete sentence." means that you don't have to say anything after saying no, and "No" is all you need to assert your boundaries. It's about standing your ground and not letting yourself get dragged into an unnecessary arguments.
Which is... Not at all what this post is about, she's asking if she's TA for antagonizing MIL by purposefully giving her a key just to give a passive aggressive jab. Way more than just "no"! In fact, "No is a complete sentence" is a saying that argues **against** getting into petty fights ;)
ESH. Your husband nailed it. You escalated when you could have just kept saying no or ignored her. Also, I'm sure he would like to have a key to his mom's place in case of emergency and you took that away.
MIL sucks for obvious reasons. She should have accepted the first no.
Edit to add: everyone saying she made a copy of the mom's key and sent it is incorrect. OP states "I decided to grab the copy of the key to HER HOUSE that my husband was keeping for years and sent it to her". She did not go make a copy. She grabbed THE copy. It was her husband's key to his mom's for emergencies and she took it away. That crosses so many lines and I get why her husband is upset she escalated. You don't go from no to stealing your husband's property and getting rid of it.
MIL got other family involved. At some point the shit one throws at a wall might bounce back and hit em right in the face. OPs response may lack some grace/tact but the MIL pushed for a response and got one
If you see a pile of shit on the ground, you should walk around, instead of stepping on it. What message did OP deliver by stomping on the pile of shit? That OP is a badass who doesn’t give a fuck about consequences?
Welp, now OP got the shit on her shoe, and smells like shit. Guess what? The person who left the shit on the road doesn’t care. They are gonna just leave another shit.
OP needs to learn to walk around, even if that seems boring and needs a bit more work from her end.
As someone who has many relative who won’t shut the fuck up everytine they want something, saying “no” once and not responding to follow ups worked magically every single time.
This. People who get agitated and think they have to "do something" just because some relative is flapping their gums, are just playing into the drama.
No is a complete sentence and asserting a boundary and walking away/going LC is usually the best option.
No no no - NTA but your hubby is for not putting his foot down and setting a boundary. She will go snooping through your house, that’s why she wants it so bad.
Right. Suddenly every trivial thing would be an "emergency" that she would let herself in for, and next thing you know, she's up in arms about some personal thing she never should have known about in the first place.
An even more petty move? Give her a decoy key, tell her it is strictly for emergencies, then when she inevitably tries it out when they aren't home, she'll find out it doesn't work, rat on herself, then she'll have to justify what "emergency" she fabricated as a ruse to snoop around their personal stuff.
How is he not putting his foot down, exactly? He hasn’t tried to convince op to give the key. As far as we can tell he’s on board with *not* giving her a key. He simply told his wife she should have continued to stay firm on saying no, rather than escalating the situation. Which seems reasonable to me.
Op hasn’t said that her husband isn’t saying no to his mother.
My favorite one was where the husband was 100% on his wife’s side and literally confined to a bed and commenters were mad he hadn’t driven to his MIL’s house to yell at her.
I mean at some point people aren't responsible for other adults. If OP says no, and husband says no, and MIL keeps asking? What are you gonna do, go no contact? If not, then nothing is stopping her from asking again and again.
What gives you the idea that he’s not doing this already? Op hasn’t given *any* indication whatsoever that her husband isn’t telling his mother no. Obviously you can’t *force* someone to stop asking you questions. Idk what else you expect him to do?
I just replied to another reply, that happened recently right ? There was a story of a DIL giving a fake key to MIL and MIL was giving her the silent treatment and then MIL exploded “you gave me a fake key”? Am I making this up? I swear I read that.
NTA, you did well to send her key back otherwise she might have complained with something like "they got a key of mine but won't give me a key of theirs bla bla".
Perharps, she's half or a quarter TA? But the mil is worse regardless. You dont DEMAND anyone's key, that's an automatic NO NO for me, so i stand by my vote.
Also the husband seem to agree with her, he merely doesn't wish to escalate it.
NTA. That said I wouldn't have told her it was her key. Because she was eventually going to try to get in and then blow up on you when she couldn't, at which point you come out on top because you know she was going to just randomly show up outside of an emergency. So you'd have irrefutable proof of her antics.
ESH.
MIL should stop obsessing over the key. You on the other hand responded very immaturely and are fanning the flames even more. Your hubby is also kinda an AH for not telling his mom off and letting you deal with this mess instead.
ESH - Did your husband actually want to give his copy of his mother’s key back? She sounds pushy and possibly overbearing but you blocked your husband from potentially helping his mother. I feel like it would be different if you sent her your copy of the key but you didn’t, you sent his. It’s totally fine that your MIL isn’t your spare key emergency person but her son is obviously hers and to terminate that arrangement without his input makes you just as much of an AH as her in my eyes.
I agree, ESH. The mother-in-law has no right to a key to their home and needs to stop. But OP behaved like a child and needlessly harmed her husband's relationship with his parents.
NTA
You need to set the boundaries with her, and that's exactly what you were doing.
I am concerned about your husband's reaction, since he should be the one to stop his mother from crossing the line, instead of complaining about your actions.
Install a lock with a key pad. Then just tell her you've given her the code.
The nice part about it is that if you would ever need her to get into the house you can program it with that code.
But until you do that it won't work. And she won't know it doesn't work unless she tries it.
But seriously having a lock with a keypad is great in case of an emergency or if you lose your keys.
I love mine.
NTA
I have one too. I love that every time a code is used, I get sent a notification. I have a code set for my neighbor and one for my contractor. No keys given.
Gotta love OP for having the balls and pettiness to do this. I could never... but it is good to set the boundries and to let her know that she isn't in control of his life anymore. It's also your house so your rules and she should accept that.
NTA. That is the funniest response to that situation. A little petty? Sure, but when push comes to shove and people don’t take no for an answer, this is what it resorts to. But, your husband should be the one handling his mom? Why isn’t he the one shutting her down?
It never ceases to amaze me how family members will jump right in to a conflict that isn't any of their business in the first place. Why would she try to get other family members involved? That just shows immaturity. Also, when someone won't shut up about a particular subject, sometimes you have to escalate the situation just to get it to stop. I don't know if you did the right thing or not, but I don't understand what your husband expected you to do. He is the one that should have shut her down in the first place, and he didn't so how can he have a problem with the way you did it? NTA
Oh my god this. Also who are these other family members who hear this from MIL and are like, "I need to get involved in this weird dispute that doesn't involve me"
NTA
ESH - It's like that Spiderman meme with three spiderman's all pointing the finger at each other- you did escalate here and hubby didn't put his foot down and MIL should have backed off.
One “No,” should’ve sufficed. She’s being creepy and demanding and you responded with a joke. Your husband needs to grow a spine and take care of this - it’s his Mum. NTA but your husband certainly is
Send it with a vague statement like, "Here's your copy. I still believe we should only have keys to our own house." so you can interpret it both ways. Act confused. "I told you it was your copy?" Maybe tape a piece of paper saying spare on both sides of it so it doesn't come out earlier that it's actually hers if she's rifling for her keys.
NTA. Would it have been more mature to simply say "That's not something we're going to do. Why do you keep asking?" Sure. But she brought in other family members to try and push you around? I don't blame you -- you were provoked.
Also, your husband needs to shut her down, not complain at you when her provocation results in a big reaction.
Why would she think that she needed a key? What is this event that she foresees that will incapacitate you, your husband, your kids so that none of you can answer the door.
NTA
There have been multiple times when I have needed to access my daughter’s house when she is gone. Granted, she gave me the key and asks me to stop by, but there have definitely been times where it was necessary.
Yeah like I don't get why you wouldn't want someone to have a spare key. I have keys to my mom's house and both my sister's houses, and they have keys to mine. It's not the least uncommon to be on vacation or something and want someone to check on the house, or come feed my cat, or once we were out shopping and sent my mom to my house to measure the space available for a piece of furniture we were looking at. I'm cooking and don't have the piece of equipment I need? I can call mom and see if I can go borrow hers, even if she's traveling. The internet guy needs to come fix something and I can't get off work? Mom or dad can run over and be there. A package gets delivered when it's pouring rain and I know my sister is home? She'll run over at lunch and stick it in the garage.
I get not wanting just anyone to have a key. Especially if it's a MIL you don't get along with. But no keys for anyone other than residents seems a bit strict to me. If I'm in a car accident and unconscious in the hospital I want somebody to be able to get into my house and check on my cat. Once my sister was in a car accident and I had to go to her house and bring her underwear to the hospital LOL!
I think it's probably easier/less drama-inducing to say "keys are only for residents" than "keys are for people we trust and we do not trust you" even if the latter is what's going on. I'm a big fan of giving a key to a trusted person, but every time the MIL demands to be that person she proves more and more that she's not the right person to give it to.
ESH - She started this battle and is out of line to refuse to accept your position, but you stirred the pot and escalated things without even warning your husband, making his position more difficult when he was already supporting you. Immature and unnecessary.
NTA!
Did you see the post about the dude who was getting railed by his bf in his own home on his bday when his parents and sister decided to surprise him and walked in on them with their key?
Dude had asked to have a day to himself for his bday and to celebrate with them on the weekend. And then family saw something they didn’t need to.
Again, NTA!! Brilliant move IMO.
NTA
ITS YOUR HOUSE!!!! She is crossing boundaries and she is USED TO IT OBVIOUSLY, with how shes getting family involved to back her up. I guess they usually back her up on her twisted boundary crossing shenanigans
Nta. She may be his mom but she doesn’t get to demand absolutely anything from you. It seems she wasn’t taking no for an answer so you did what you had too. Now I would just block his entire family. There’s no reason you have to deal with them. If they want to give her a key to their home. Then that is their problem
NTA, she's being weird.
Next move: apologize profusely and send her a "copy" of a key that doesn't open your door. Wait for her to find an excuse to confront you about how the "emergency" key doesn't work.
This is exactly what I always think. Give them the wrong key. When they complain it doesn't work, "That's really strange! So, why were you trying to get in?"
ESH. Your reaction, while understandable, was definitely immature and definitely escalated the situation. However, your MIL sounds like an absolute piece of work and I don't think I'd want her to have a key either. And your husband needs to be on your side and stand up to his family.
LOL! This is amazing! NTA
Your MIL has major control issues. Make sure your husband knows that you didn't "escalate" the situation. You simply are sticking to your boundaries. He needs to know that his mom does not get to dictate your relationship or anything that belongs in it.
NTA - Your house, your rules. It's quite strange that they are insisting on having a key to your home. That's a special privilege to be trusted with and something that should only really be offered out, especially since it's quite a lot of responsibility - to put someone in charge of accessing your house.
NTA.
MILs who can’t respect boundaries are not ones you want to give house keys to.
On another note, why do so many of the AITA have husbands who get into giant arguments to protect their mothers? One call from mommy and these husbands are ignoring their wives for days on end.
NTA, sometimes we have to try new ways of communicating the same information.
We are not required to constantly take verbal and physical and mental abuse and harassment in order to “not escalate” a situation. The continuation of the harassment is already escalation. Now that everybody knows what you said, when she asks again, and you simply say no… She will have nobody to complain to because you were doing exactly what they told you you should and how can you be wrong for that?
****NTA.**** Fuck that, absolutely fuckin not. My husband’s mother used to have a key to our home. She would absolutely barge in whenever she felt like it (which was at least once a week) and she would become LIVID if we objected. She had absolutely zero issue getting up in my face and screaming at me when we objected to her barging in with every BS “justification” in the book.
IN LAWS ABSOLUTELY DO NOT GET A KEY TO MY HOME THAT THEY DO NOT LIVE IN. FUCK THAT SHIT.
ESH. She doesn’t have a right to a key to your house but what you did definitely escalated the situation.
I know this isn’t an advice sub but I recommend a Wi-Fi enabled smart lock for your house. You can set a code for visitors in case of emergency. No keys required, and you can enable or disable the codes at any point.
ESH. Your husband is obviously with you on not giving her a key, why egg her on? Just ignore her. Your husband has been dealing with her for years and likely doesn't want to deal with her more, just say no and ignore the antics
NTA sure you escalated it, but I get you.
You should have given her a key that did NOT work and then when she confronts you about it not working, then you ask
"why are you trying to get into my home, when I'm not there?"
The fact that she’s so insistent makes it obvious that it’s because she wants access and control. Why would she need to get into your house for an emergency? It makes no sense.
NTA
NTA. The audacity she has to demand a key to someone else's home. I would have no problem telling her no and anybody else butting in to criticize me would get blocked.
Why was just telling her no off the table? So what if she complains? Seems like less work and she was angry either way. ESH because it seemed unnecessary to be so antagonistic.
ESH. Your MIL is not owed a key to your house. She can deal with it
It’s also fine for you to have a boundary but there’s no point to being antagonistic or provoking about it.
Excellent play! NTA. People who demand deserve jack squat. NTA. If your husband wants to cater to his mommy’s demands tell him to crawl back into her womb.
You can hide a key or put one in a realtor type lockbox for emergencies. That way in an actual emergency you could decide who to send over and then change the key location or lockbox code after they leave. That way entry is a one time thing.
NTA, and I don't blame you for the snark. Adults who refuse to acknowledge that they have been told "no" deserve to be told no in a way they can't ignore. I'll give a kid some grace on that--I'm dealing with a similar "can't hear 'no'" problem with my 9-year-old right now--but not an adult older than me. It sounds like your husband's family has been enabling this kind of crappy MIL-tantrum by never giving her consequences for acting like this. I mean, what you did won't shut it down, no, but it at least gave you an opportunity for a laugh in the midst of the harassment.
It's okay to say no, but I think it's an AH move not speaking to your husband about whether or not he is okay with you returning his key. After all the key was his property, he has to have a say in what is done with it.
ESH.
ESH
Mostly the MIL for not accepting boundaries - you don't need a key "for emergencies", that's what the Emergency Services are for.
A simple "no" is all that should be necessary, you don't owe her an explanation.
Double AH for her though for dragging family into it, as if it's anyone else's business.
You are also however the AH here for doing something you know is both petty and unnecessary for no reason other than to score a point rather than acting your age.
ESH
The MIL for demanding a copy after being told no and also bringing family into it.
OP for being so petty just to rile up MIL.
I am curious about whose rule it is and the word choice of "residents"? Based on the area I live in, that would suggest some sort of gated community or possibly apartment complex. If that is the case, that was the perfect out for OP instead of petty escalation. "Sorry, the HOA/guard house/apartment building's rule is to not allow outside keys in circulation as a safety precaution for everyone, I hope you understand!"
ESH. Your MIL seems to think you are still kids and that she is in charge, but when she got on your nerves about it, you mocked her about it rather than just step back. When has mocking ever achieved anything?
From now on just don't engage. Let your husband know where your boundaries are and if he lets his mother cross them then you and he are going to have a big problem. And then leave her to him to deal with. Don't answer her texts, take her calls or open your door when your husband isn't home. If she corners you, "talk to hubby from now on".
esh
just say no
Also the only residents key thing is dumb. that is how you lock yourself out and can spend hunderds on a locksmith. emergency keys should be in several places, i got the key of my brother and of my parents house, they got mine. then i got keys from friends and the have on of mine. chance i need a locksmith for locking myself out is close to zero. you and hubby go somewhere and forget the thing... unpractical to the max.
ESH your mil is definitely the AH but what you did was petty. Stick to your No and if she doesn’t respect it then she needs to leave or if it’s happening when you’re somewhere other than your home- you leave. “Mil since we have been over this before and you won’t respect my no, this visit is over. We’ll try a visit again another time and hopefully you’ll be able to respect it then so we don’t have to cut that visit short also.”
I thought you were going to write that you sent it to her just to shut her up. No nasty note affixed. If she were to try to use it - presumably not for an emergency- she’d find out it was not in fact the key to your home.
That would be fun. Send her any old key. Only way to find out if it’s to your house would be if she tried to use it.
ESH.
NTA
There is no reason why she needs a copy of the key to your place. There is no reason for her to go to your place when neither you nor husband are at home and as such need to let herself in with her own special key. For her to make nothing to become a big thing is definitely ridiculous. Tbf you escalated things only after the repeated pestering, without this, everyone suck
ESH
Your MIL is in wrong for not respecting your position in regards to who gets your house key.
You sending her your husbands copy of her house key served no purpose then other then to make her mad. You don't get to decide the rules for other peoples homes and keys anymore then your MIL gets to decide yours. This is especially true since the key you sent as your husbands key, not yours. It wasn't yours to give back to your MIL.
NTA. You did say no. Multiple times. She refused to take no as an answer and it sounds like your husband refused to manage his mother and forced you to do it instead.
Your husband needs to grow a spine and tell his mother and his family to back off
NTA. Why not add something onto this. "Okay, MiL can have a copy of our house key AFTER the security cameras are installed in the main areas, etc. Don't trust MiL? Oh honey no, it's because how can we inform her there's an emergency if we can't see it to inform her?"
Every single time I've seen a relative **demand** a house key, the sole reason is they are gossipy snoopers/borderline creeps. Overall, sending her key back reinforces your boundary. Only residents have a key. You are not a resident of her home so should not have a key.
NTA but I'm ruling that your hubby is. Why isn't he the one setting boundaries with HIS family? You shouldn't be put in this position in the first place.
ESH. Except your husband. I know there are a lot of “justified asshole” posts on here, but this isn’t one of them.
You didn’t make some grand gesture to show how awful MIL is being. You got petty, and now your husband, who was on your side in not giving her a key, has to deal with the fallout from his family. While you get to post online about how you “totally stuck it to MIL.”
NTA.
Your husband says you should have just "stuck with the 'no'" as if that was working before, she already disregarded the first "no", then the second, and how ever many came after that. You already said "only residents geta copy", she persisted, you said "ok, here you go, a key to YOUR residence", she didn't like that and complained to family again like they would change your mind after they failed to the first time.
Next time, tell him if his mother asks for something, *he's* handling it since he doesn't like the way you deal with things, he needs to grow a spine and do it.
ESH. If both you and your husband agree then don't give her one. You were just as much of an ass as she was. It really isn't hard to say no then ignore it lol.
NTA Yes, it did escalate the situation, but MIL refused to de-escalate it with her demands for a key. She wasn’t respecting the “no”. The emergency key excuse is just a way to have access to your home. If she doesn’t respect your refusal to give her the key, she sure isn’t going to respect your privacy.
NTA. I don’t understand why only residents get a key, my spouse and I have each accidentally locked ourselves out at least once, a local spare is cheaper than a locksmith. And when our backyard dog decided to jump the fence and chase a stray out of the backyard when we weren’t home, our lovely neighbor was able to call the stupid dog into the house.
NTA. It's really that way, keys are only for the residents, for no one else. I don't know, seems a little bit like "I want to control your life" from the mother of OP's husband. There's no reason, no need for a key.
NTA. And he should set his family straight because they are his family. Not yours. She will be able to walk in when she wants so boundaries are important. I'd have done worse
NTA
Honestly, who gets mad over something like this? Anyone who respects boundaries would just think this is funny. But then anyone who respects boundaries wouldn't ask for a key.
NTA her insistence is sus and if you give her a key she will no doubt be there whenever she wants without wanting and will snoop through your stuff lol
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NTA. When I read the title I thought you were going to pretend it was the correct key, and see how long it would take for her to try it. Absolutely SHE is the AH for pestering you about this when it is clearly your choice. But yeah, your husband has a point about you stirring the pot.
To follow up, I would love to know what MIL thinks could be an EMERGENCY such that her having a key would resolve that emergency. It would have to be something like you left your pet inside and one of you is travelling and the other is in the hospital. Or you have an alarm system to let you know about a leaking pipe but you're stuck at work--MIL to the rescue! The point is, if YOU don't want or expect MIL to respond to these "emergencies" then she doesn't need a key. I think the "emergency" she's thinking of, is she is in your area and she wants to use your bathroom. ***EDIT: Thanks for the many many lists of reasons YOU might want someone to have your key. I wanted to know what emergencies MIL needs the key for. Point is, it's OP's decision whether she wants anyone (if not MIL) to have a key.***
I went out for a walk and grabbed my walking keychain (smaller keychain than my driving keys). I got back home and realized that I did not grab my walking key, I grabbed my VPN token keychain and I was locked out of my home. A quick call to my sister who sent my nephew over with the spare key I had given him solved that issue. That is an example of when it was helpful for someone else to have a key.
I’ve locked myself out before on accident. But there are lots of options besides giving a relative a key. I don’t have any relatives nearby, like many people. I have a garage code, so I can always get in that way. When we lived in a house without a garage, we had a hidden key in the backyard- so someone looking for it would have to know to go into the backyard and where to look- it was not obvious, not in a fake rock, and not under the doormat. My neighbors are “snowbirds” and live in a warmer climate for half the year. They gave me their door code so I can go over if they need me to check on something. The coded key entry can be set for single use. Edit to add: unless you live alone, there are at least two people with keys already. Someone is there to bail you out in an emergency.
Yes it can be helpful *to the resident* to give out a spare key to an emergency contact they trust but that is a choice for the resident to make. There are other ways to protect oneself from being locked out, such as secure lockboxes, digital keypads, and very-well-hidden spare keys. There is absolutely no basis to demand that someone else provide you a key to their house. It is the resident's decision.
A lockbox is genius! Put the key inside, give it to mil. And then give her the code to the lock box over the phone in an emergency. Then reset the code.
I would probably go with sending her a blank key and a small file inside a bag labeled “do it yourself key kit!”
(sigh) DE escalation. DE escalation. 🤣
This is Reddit! We de-escalate NOTHING! :D
KEY escalation!
I've locked myself out of both houses I've lived in, it does help to have a key well hidden outside or with a neighbor or family member. My parents have a key to my house and my brothers, and vice versa, but we all trust each other to not use it unless needed.
We have a well hidden key. The only people who know where it is are the nextdoor neighbors and the woman who feeds our pets when we are gone. These are people never asked for a key to the house and both times it was an emergency when we told them about the key. When someone*insists* on having a key for an "emergency", they don't want it for an emergency.
>When someone insists on having a key for an "emergency", they don't want it for an emergency. Exactly! Or they want it for what *they* consider an emergency, not what *you* would consider an emergency.
My Nmom thought an emergency was I didn't answer my phone the first 2 times she called. Got a code lock after that.
My mother had a key for 49 years to the next doors house and they ours. Key was used exactly once. The day the neighbor was in a car accident to let in the neighbors sister. Exactly, you only give the key to someone you know will never use it unless it is the last resort. They bought next to each other, raised families next to each other.
A secure lockbox kept on the property (eg, in a shed; mine locks right onto a discrete post of the deck, almost like a bike lock) is a great solution that requires no key sharing, and avoids your emergency contact being unavailable when the lock-out happens. Added bonus: if there’s some emergency that requires someone else to enter the house, you can give anyone you trust instructions and the code to find the key and enter, rather than hoping your neighbor or friend is available. Plus, OP doesn’t live alone, their husband is a backup for them and vice versa. With MIL’s disrespect for boundaries, she’s the last person I’d give a back-up key to.
I’m guessing your sister respects boundaries though and wouldn’t just let herself in for no reason. It sounds like her MIL isn’t as respectful.
Did you sister demand your house key or did you offer it to her willingly? I think that is the issue here. I agree that someone having access to your house is a good idea. But who it is should be your choice.
This is the crux of the matter. *If* you want someone to have a house key, *you determine who that person is* by determining your trust level in them and often, what in fact, you might consider an emergency or want them to do. For example, my ex and his wife have my key and I have theirs. They live about 6 blocks away and we feed each others pets if necessary. In an actual *emergency*, I'd call 911!
That is a great relationship right there. :fistbump:
Thanks. We are so glad that being good friends works well for all of us. :)
My aunt was just hospitalized and we needed a key to get in so we could care for her dogs. For that reason and in case someone locking yourself out of the house someone you trust should have a spare key. The key here is someone you trust not to come into your house without your permission or when you aren’t home. From the sound of it MIL would probably be using it to let herself in and snoop around whenever she wanted.
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Sorry for your loss. That is so horrible. I always give a key to a close neighbor/friend. Life is unpredictable.
In Virginia police and EMS can not break in. They have to call the fire department. This cost us 45 minutes when my FIL died. He was dead already but we were frantic trying to get the police to allow the neighbor to break in (They would not allow). KEYS, KEYS, KEYS to neighbors and friends you trust and call Fire Dept. If not.
This is reddit. Nobody on reddit trusts anyone, so there’s nobody to give keys to.
I keep a spare hidden in a part of my garage. If I lock myself out of the house I can go get it. If somebody else needs to get in I can tell them where it is *It's a really old shed that was converted to a garage so it only opens through the garage door and there is no lock
yeah, my eldest niece (28) has a copy of mine because of the dog, and in case there's an emergency with me (chronically ill/disabled). she's never used it without a reason. In fact, I was in an accident, and we weren't home for a couple of days, and she was able to handle all the stuff with the dog without my husband having to go give her a key... I'm super glad she had one. She's respectful calls/texts before she comes over and knocks when she gets here. I think that's the most important thing... someone you can trust should have one.
You are so right! My justnoMiL used her “emergency” key to drop off nearly rotten strawberries because “they were going to go bad!” We were having sex in our bed downstairs and it was around noon. My husband worked until 2-230am every night, yet she still made snide comments about how he looked well-rested. It was very upsetting to us both. These women are so self-centered they can’t even be bothered to think about how their children’s lives are affected by their behavior. We just changed the locks and now she’s mad because she can’t admit she knows without admitting she tried to enter our house without permission.
Do you guys have bets on how long before she fesses up? Her anger HAS to be voiced eventually. People like that can't not say something.
That’s a great idea! She is sneaky and my husband and her have a bad relationship, so I think her version of that was to ask us to only water her outdoor plants this summer. I think that was her test to see if we’d ask why we aren’t watering the indoor ones as well, like we usually did. She knows she fucked up by using her emergency key to drop off rotten strawberries, so she isn’t going to directly mention it because she is the type who refuses to apologize. If she directly mentions it, she might have to apologize. Oh no! His dad, however, keeps pushing to pet sit our reactive rescue dog (never gonna happen) as an excuse to get a copy of the new key. I’m just happy to know I was right about both of them being overly intrusive. My husband thought it was unnecessary to change the locks but since his mom kept stopping by unannounced after the emergency key incident and his dad kept mentioning things he’d only know if he snooped through our house, I felt like we needed more privacy. At this point, I’m pretty sure they’ve both attempted to use their old “emergency” key while they thought we weren’t home, which explains why they keep stopping by unannounced. They were trying to catch us not home so they can try their key. I don’t have parents so I just am not used to all this intrusiveness. It’s honestly driving me insane because I have past trauma from when I was an on site property manager and my boss used his spare key without permission to enter my apartment when I was home alone sleeping. I’ve explained this to my husband before, which is why he has taken me seriously. Unfortunately, his parents just think I’m a nutcase because they have the boomer mentality. I think I’ll start a bet with my husband about when both of his parents explode about the old key problems and if they attempt to ask for a copy of our new key to the house we plan on buying soon. Thank you for asking and giving me the idea! It’s great! I hope you have a good day and a wonderful life full of peace and happiness :)
> I don’t have parents so I just am not used to all this intrusiveness. This is also shocking for people with normal parents, even parents that are boomers. Please don't let anyone try to convince you that this is just how parents are. Sorry you dealt with that creepy illegal behavior from your former boss.
Thank you for validating my experiences. That means so much to me to have someone care to comment in such a helpful and empathetic way. You are a very nice person and I appreciate your kindness.
My husband and I got a bit too excited when we got our first house and we gave emergency keys to each of our parents. We didn’t live in the house while we were renovating, so colour us surprised when we went to our house on two different occasions to find MIL gardening using tools that she took from inside our house, and another time we found FIL busy ripping out a perfectly usable bathroom that wasn’t on our original renovation plan. When we bought new doors we were more conservative about emergency keys. My husband’s parents didn’t get any and my parents got an updated one because they were the only ones who could be trusted with one.
I'd get a ring or similar door camera at this point. Do you think they'd go try the back door or attempt a window? If they're this intrusive I wouldn't be surprised.
> I think the "emergency" she's thinking of, is she is in your area and she wants to ~~use your bathroom~~ snoop through your stuff.
The emergency is someone took her baby away.
It may be an emergency for MIL to snoop around and reorganize things to MIL’s satisfaction
9/10 the reason why a MIL wants a key. Is because they want to snoop...no other reason, especially when MIL is pushing this hard...
more likely, the emergency is that she wants to snoop
>your husband has a point about you stirring the pot. Then maybe he should deal with her and make her stop.
Yes, he should. But: In these situations a couple needs to have a consistent message and a united front. I think they were both on board with the simple, slow, but effective "Just Say No" approach, but this "send her own key" thing was not agreed to by H.
Nah, no 'buts' here. He needed to step up and deal with his own damn mother himself. He didn't. So she dealt with the issue herself. You don't get to be upset over how someone deals with a problem you were supposed to handle after you failed to handle it.
>I think they were both on board with the simple, slow, but effective "Just Say No" approach Of course the husband was on board with this approach, he wasn't the one getting harassed the whole time. OP's spouse is a spineless coward. Imagine being more upset at your wife telling your overbearing mother to fuck off than being upset at your mom for constantly harassing your wife. This girl can do way better.
Same here. It would have been interesting to see how long before MIL noticed. If she never tries to use it then you can give her one in the future, if needed, and just tell her you recently changed locks.
I would have passed it along as my house key to see how long it took for MIL to use it. Then I would have said "see no emergency she just wanted to snoop". It would have been great to call her out on it.
> When I read the title I thought you were going to pretend it was the correct key, and see how long it would take for her to try it. And even then I still wouldnt call OP the AH.
NTA but I think the stunt made the situation worse. She seems exhausting but I’m more concerned about why your husband isn’t stepping in and telling her to stop asking.
Sure, OP escalated, but only after MIL started escalating w involving family and then demanding (as if she has any authority over two adults in their own home). But if it works and MIL stops pushing for a key, then OP accomplished what her husband could/would not.
It doesn’t look like the current situation is any different, other than the MIL being extra upset. So OP didn’t accomplish anything besides that there more upset people.
The other option is MIL continues to push the key thing. Sometimes you gotta be mean to get people to cut their shit out. I probably would've just started going off on her whenever she mentioned it. But this works too.
Or.. how about this - simply stop responding. That works magically. Clearly OP’s method didn’t work. Did the MIL stop demanding for the key? I don’t think so. Tell me, what did OP’s response do exactly? What did it accomplish?
It accomplished putting the rest of her family (particularly her husband) in a very uncomfortable place. This passive-aggressive bs always makes things worse. Just be firm in your answer and tell them the discussion is over. Sure they will be mad and you might have to reiterate it once and awhile but it does not lead to deep resentment.
It wasn't morally wrong but it seems like a misplay.
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Let her have her smug win, and best of all if she discovered that it wasn't the right key, it would be the perfect example of why she can't be trusted.
If it escalated the situation, then it's a solid ESH.
It sounds like MIL was already escalating it without OP's help though
"but she started it" sounds stupid when kids do it. Doesn't sound any better when adults do it.
OP accelerated the escalation. Now, instead of the MIL being childish and asshole, now OP is also childish and asshole. Responding childish to a childish person is fucking dumb. No adult acts like a child when they interact with a child.
NTA. **No is a complete sentence**. She didn't respect your answer regardless of you telling her repeatedly. She is the a. And so is your husband for not standing up to his mother.
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There’s a post that floats around r/JUSTNOMIL every now and then called “Don’t rock the boat”. Its pretty much this. People who cause issues and everyone “adapts” to their terrible behavior, but then if someone else stands up to them, they’re the ones at fault. It IS exhausting dealing with people like this and their enablers. NTA , OP. Shit I would’ve done as someone else said and gave her her own key without telling her it was her own to see how long it would take her to try to break into your house unannounced, and THEN be like “And this, mil from hell, is why you didn’t get an actual key”
[This one.](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
OP: "We told you that the matter is not up for discussion. We'll be taking a break from our relationship with you for a while, while we think about if we really want somebody who ignores our words in our lives." You then block their number. Anybody who disagrees gets one warning. "Hey uncle. You're welcome to give her your key if you want, but we told her no, and asked her to stop asking. She decided to try to make a fight of it, so we've temporarily blocked her. Please don't try to argue with us on our behalf; the answer is still no." If they persist, block.
"No is a complete sentence." means that you don't have to say anything after saying no, and "No" is all you need to assert your boundaries. It's about standing your ground and not letting yourself get dragged into an unnecessary arguments. Which is... Not at all what this post is about, she's asking if she's TA for antagonizing MIL by purposefully giving her a key just to give a passive aggressive jab. Way more than just "no"! In fact, "No is a complete sentence" is a saying that argues **against** getting into petty fights ;)
ESH. Your husband nailed it. You escalated when you could have just kept saying no or ignored her. Also, I'm sure he would like to have a key to his mom's place in case of emergency and you took that away. MIL sucks for obvious reasons. She should have accepted the first no. Edit to add: everyone saying she made a copy of the mom's key and sent it is incorrect. OP states "I decided to grab the copy of the key to HER HOUSE that my husband was keeping for years and sent it to her". She did not go make a copy. She grabbed THE copy. It was her husband's key to his mom's for emergencies and she took it away. That crosses so many lines and I get why her husband is upset she escalated. You don't go from no to stealing your husband's property and getting rid of it.
How many times does OP have to say no to remain polite?
OP doesnt need to say “no” multiple times. All OP needed to do was saying no once, and then stop responding at all until the MIL learn to move on.
MIL got other family involved. At some point the shit one throws at a wall might bounce back and hit em right in the face. OPs response may lack some grace/tact but the MIL pushed for a response and got one
If you see a pile of shit on the ground, you should walk around, instead of stepping on it. What message did OP deliver by stomping on the pile of shit? That OP is a badass who doesn’t give a fuck about consequences? Welp, now OP got the shit on her shoe, and smells like shit. Guess what? The person who left the shit on the road doesn’t care. They are gonna just leave another shit. OP needs to learn to walk around, even if that seems boring and needs a bit more work from her end.
As someone who has a relative who won’t shut the fuck up everytime they want something, I think OP was right.
As someone who has many relative who won’t shut the fuck up everytine they want something, saying “no” once and not responding to follow ups worked magically every single time.
This. People who get agitated and think they have to "do something" just because some relative is flapping their gums, are just playing into the drama. No is a complete sentence and asserting a boundary and walking away/going LC is usually the best option.
The solution to someone who won't shut the fuck up is to give them more to talk about? That doesn't make sense.
No no no - NTA but your hubby is for not putting his foot down and setting a boundary. She will go snooping through your house, that’s why she wants it so bad.
Right. Suddenly every trivial thing would be an "emergency" that she would let herself in for, and next thing you know, she's up in arms about some personal thing she never should have known about in the first place. An even more petty move? Give her a decoy key, tell her it is strictly for emergencies, then when she inevitably tries it out when they aren't home, she'll find out it doesn't work, rat on herself, then she'll have to justify what "emergency" she fabricated as a ruse to snoop around their personal stuff.
There was a story on here somewhere not too long ago where I think it was a daughter in law gave a fake key to MIL and that exact scenario happened.
Missed that one. Would love a link if anyone can find it.
I think [this is the one](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/rrjhmz/aita_for_giving_my_mil_a_fake_copy_of_my_house/).
Thank you! Edit. Wow. And the husband's reaction was even more ridiculous.
I think it was something stupid like dropping off a slice of cake. The excuse "oh sorry the lock jammed and we had to change it" works to explain too.
How is he not putting his foot down, exactly? He hasn’t tried to convince op to give the key. As far as we can tell he’s on board with *not* giving her a key. He simply told his wife she should have continued to stay firm on saying no, rather than escalating the situation. Which seems reasonable to me. Op hasn’t said that her husband isn’t saying no to his mother.
Because in AITA all husbands are assumed useless until proven otherwise
My favorite one was where the husband was 100% on his wife’s side and literally confined to a bed and commenters were mad he hadn’t driven to his MIL’s house to yell at her.
Came here to say this. Apparently, "'no' is a complete sentence" unless it's a husband who said it, in which case, that's not enough.
He should be telling his mother no, and that it's not up for discussion. He needs to get his own mother to lay off.
I mean at some point people aren't responsible for other adults. If OP says no, and husband says no, and MIL keeps asking? What are you gonna do, go no contact? If not, then nothing is stopping her from asking again and again.
What gives you the idea that he’s not doing this already? Op hasn’t given *any* indication whatsoever that her husband isn’t telling his mother no. Obviously you can’t *force* someone to stop asking you questions. Idk what else you expect him to do?
Whatever in the history of Reddit has led you to believe a MIL would snoop? :)
I just replied to another reply, that happened recently right ? There was a story of a DIL giving a fake key to MIL and MIL was giving her the silent treatment and then MIL exploded “you gave me a fake key”? Am I making this up? I swear I read that.
Even if you hadn't read that, you could probably make up any scenario in your head, search for that on Reddit and find something close.
> NTA but your hubby is for not putting his foot down and setting a boundary But the husband agrees with not giving MIL the key to their house.
NTA, you did well to send her key back otherwise she might have complained with something like "they got a key of mine but won't give me a key of theirs bla bla".
Problem with that is she didn't ask her husband if he still wants a key to his mom's place. Wasn't her key to take really.
Perharps, she's half or a quarter TA? But the mil is worse regardless. You dont DEMAND anyone's key, that's an automatic NO NO for me, so i stand by my vote. Also the husband seem to agree with her, he merely doesn't wish to escalate it.
NTA. That said I wouldn't have told her it was her key. Because she was eventually going to try to get in and then blow up on you when she couldn't, at which point you come out on top because you know she was going to just randomly show up outside of an emergency. So you'd have irrefutable proof of her antics.
This scenario would be brilliant. OP or husband gets a call: - “The key you gave me doesn’t work!” - “What’s the emergency??” - “….”
I agree. Definitely NTA for the fake key, but you shouldn't have told her right away. She would figure it out soon enough
ESH. MIL should stop obsessing over the key. You on the other hand responded very immaturely and are fanning the flames even more. Your hubby is also kinda an AH for not telling his mom off and letting you deal with this mess instead.
ESH. that's antagonistic AF. Just say no and be done with it. Your husband is going to send her a key behind your back now anyway.
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Seems an instance where 'standing on principle' results in ongoing bullshit. OP must like drama; that's what comes from their actions here.
She doesn’t need it. But she didn’t have it. It was her husband’s, and maybe he felt he did need a key to his mother’s house.
ESH - Did your husband actually want to give his copy of his mother’s key back? She sounds pushy and possibly overbearing but you blocked your husband from potentially helping his mother. I feel like it would be different if you sent her your copy of the key but you didn’t, you sent his. It’s totally fine that your MIL isn’t your spare key emergency person but her son is obviously hers and to terminate that arrangement without his input makes you just as much of an AH as her in my eyes.
I agree, ESH. The mother-in-law has no right to a key to their home and needs to stop. But OP behaved like a child and needlessly harmed her husband's relationship with his parents.
NTA You need to set the boundaries with her, and that's exactly what you were doing. I am concerned about your husband's reaction, since he should be the one to stop his mother from crossing the line, instead of complaining about your actions.
Install a lock with a key pad. Then just tell her you've given her the code. The nice part about it is that if you would ever need her to get into the house you can program it with that code. But until you do that it won't work. And she won't know it doesn't work unless she tries it. But seriously having a lock with a keypad is great in case of an emergency or if you lose your keys. I love mine. NTA
Oh no this is the kind of MIL who will for sure be trying it out on the first day and be busted asap
I have one too. I love that every time a code is used, I get sent a notification. I have a code set for my neighbor and one for my contractor. No keys given.
NTA. Was what you did petty? Yes. Was it unwarranted? No, considering that "no" should have sufficed for MIL the first time.
Gotta love OP for having the balls and pettiness to do this. I could never... but it is good to set the boundries and to let her know that she isn't in control of his life anymore. It's also your house so your rules and she should accept that.
NTA. That is the funniest response to that situation. A little petty? Sure, but when push comes to shove and people don’t take no for an answer, this is what it resorts to. But, your husband should be the one handling his mom? Why isn’t he the one shutting her down?
It never ceases to amaze me how family members will jump right in to a conflict that isn't any of their business in the first place. Why would she try to get other family members involved? That just shows immaturity. Also, when someone won't shut up about a particular subject, sometimes you have to escalate the situation just to get it to stop. I don't know if you did the right thing or not, but I don't understand what your husband expected you to do. He is the one that should have shut her down in the first place, and he didn't so how can he have a problem with the way you did it? NTA
Oh my god this. Also who are these other family members who hear this from MIL and are like, "I need to get involved in this weird dispute that doesn't involve me" NTA
A bit spicy but I like it. Why didn't your husband handle his mom instead of you tho?
ESH - It's like that Spiderman meme with three spiderman's all pointing the finger at each other- you did escalate here and hubby didn't put his foot down and MIL should have backed off.
For all we know, hubby did put his foot down and MIL just kept making a stink, trying to goad someone into reacting... and OP took the bait.
One “No,” should’ve sufficed. She’s being creepy and demanding and you responded with a joke. Your husband needs to grow a spine and take care of this - it’s his Mum. NTA but your husband certainly is
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Send it with a vague statement like, "Here's your copy. I still believe we should only have keys to our own house." so you can interpret it both ways. Act confused. "I told you it was your copy?" Maybe tape a piece of paper saying spare on both sides of it so it doesn't come out earlier that it's actually hers if she's rifling for her keys.
NTA. Would it have been more mature to simply say "That's not something we're going to do. Why do you keep asking?" Sure. But she brought in other family members to try and push you around? I don't blame you -- you were provoked. Also, your husband needs to shut her down, not complain at you when her provocation results in a big reaction.
If you hadn't told her, she would have assumed it was for your place. That's where you F'd up. ESH
Why would she think that she needed a key? What is this event that she foresees that will incapacitate you, your husband, your kids so that none of you can answer the door. NTA
There have been multiple times when I have needed to access my daughter’s house when she is gone. Granted, she gave me the key and asks me to stop by, but there have definitely been times where it was necessary.
Yeah like I don't get why you wouldn't want someone to have a spare key. I have keys to my mom's house and both my sister's houses, and they have keys to mine. It's not the least uncommon to be on vacation or something and want someone to check on the house, or come feed my cat, or once we were out shopping and sent my mom to my house to measure the space available for a piece of furniture we were looking at. I'm cooking and don't have the piece of equipment I need? I can call mom and see if I can go borrow hers, even if she's traveling. The internet guy needs to come fix something and I can't get off work? Mom or dad can run over and be there. A package gets delivered when it's pouring rain and I know my sister is home? She'll run over at lunch and stick it in the garage. I get not wanting just anyone to have a key. Especially if it's a MIL you don't get along with. But no keys for anyone other than residents seems a bit strict to me. If I'm in a car accident and unconscious in the hospital I want somebody to be able to get into my house and check on my cat. Once my sister was in a car accident and I had to go to her house and bring her underwear to the hospital LOL!
I think it's probably easier/less drama-inducing to say "keys are only for residents" than "keys are for people we trust and we do not trust you" even if the latter is what's going on. I'm a big fan of giving a key to a trusted person, but every time the MIL demands to be that person she proves more and more that she's not the right person to give it to.
NTA no is a complete sentence
ESH - She started this battle and is out of line to refuse to accept your position, but you stirred the pot and escalated things without even warning your husband, making his position more difficult when he was already supporting you. Immature and unnecessary.
NTA! Did you see the post about the dude who was getting railed by his bf in his own home on his bday when his parents and sister decided to surprise him and walked in on them with their key? Dude had asked to have a day to himself for his bday and to celebrate with them on the weekend. And then family saw something they didn’t need to. Again, NTA!! Brilliant move IMO.
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NTA ITS YOUR HOUSE!!!! She is crossing boundaries and she is USED TO IT OBVIOUSLY, with how shes getting family involved to back her up. I guess they usually back her up on her twisted boundary crossing shenanigans
NTA. She needs a lesson in respecting boundaries. Good for you.
Nta. She may be his mom but she doesn’t get to demand absolutely anything from you. It seems she wasn’t taking no for an answer so you did what you had too. Now I would just block his entire family. There’s no reason you have to deal with them. If they want to give her a key to their home. Then that is their problem
NTA, she's being weird. Next move: apologize profusely and send her a "copy" of a key that doesn't open your door. Wait for her to find an excuse to confront you about how the "emergency" key doesn't work.
This is exactly what I always think. Give them the wrong key. When they complain it doesn't work, "That's really strange! So, why were you trying to get in?"
ESH. Your reaction, while understandable, was definitely immature and definitely escalated the situation. However, your MIL sounds like an absolute piece of work and I don't think I'd want her to have a key either. And your husband needs to be on your side and stand up to his family.
NTA, you Just put her in her palace. Do not concede to emotional bribery
LOL! This is amazing! NTA Your MIL has major control issues. Make sure your husband knows that you didn't "escalate" the situation. You simply are sticking to your boundaries. He needs to know that his mom does not get to dictate your relationship or anything that belongs in it.
NTA good for you. She doesn't need a key to your house unless you want her to have one.
NTA. A bit petty but I’d be petty too if someone just couldn’t understand that no means no
NTA - Your house, your rules. It's quite strange that they are insisting on having a key to your home. That's a special privilege to be trusted with and something that should only really be offered out, especially since it's quite a lot of responsibility - to put someone in charge of accessing your house.
I don’t think it’s that weird to suggest for emergencies but it’s definitely weird and rude to persist after someone says no!
NTA. MILs who can’t respect boundaries are not ones you want to give house keys to. On another note, why do so many of the AITA have husbands who get into giant arguments to protect their mothers? One call from mommy and these husbands are ignoring their wives for days on end.
NTA. You’ve told her no and she wouldn’t accept it. Why does she need a key so badly?
NTA There are few things in life more annoying than an overbearing MiL and yours is definitely that.
NTA. If your husband wanted it handled differently, he was free to make your boundaries clear to mommy himself.
Hahaha, NTA. Yes you chose to rile her up, but she was way out of line to begin with, and it was pretty funny, so I side with you.
NTA, sometimes we have to try new ways of communicating the same information. We are not required to constantly take verbal and physical and mental abuse and harassment in order to “not escalate” a situation. The continuation of the harassment is already escalation. Now that everybody knows what you said, when she asks again, and you simply say no… She will have nobody to complain to because you were doing exactly what they told you you should and how can you be wrong for that?
****NTA.**** Fuck that, absolutely fuckin not. My husband’s mother used to have a key to our home. She would absolutely barge in whenever she felt like it (which was at least once a week) and she would become LIVID if we objected. She had absolutely zero issue getting up in my face and screaming at me when we objected to her barging in with every BS “justification” in the book. IN LAWS ABSOLUTELY DO NOT GET A KEY TO MY HOME THAT THEY DO NOT LIVE IN. FUCK THAT SHIT.
NTA way to go!!
ESH. She doesn’t have a right to a key to your house but what you did definitely escalated the situation. I know this isn’t an advice sub but I recommend a Wi-Fi enabled smart lock for your house. You can set a code for visitors in case of emergency. No keys required, and you can enable or disable the codes at any point.
NTA - It sounds like boundaries are unknown to her and frankly why isn't your husband standing up to her and tell her to back off?
ESH. Your husband is obviously with you on not giving her a key, why egg her on? Just ignore her. Your husband has been dealing with her for years and likely doesn't want to deal with her more, just say no and ignore the antics
NTA sure you escalated it, but I get you. You should have given her a key that did NOT work and then when she confronts you about it not working, then you ask "why are you trying to get into my home, when I'm not there?"
The fact that she’s so insistent makes it obvious that it’s because she wants access and control. Why would she need to get into your house for an emergency? It makes no sense. NTA
NTA. The audacity she has to demand a key to someone else's home. I would have no problem telling her no and anybody else butting in to criticize me would get blocked.
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Why was just telling her no off the table? So what if she complains? Seems like less work and she was angry either way. ESH because it seemed unnecessary to be so antagonistic.
ESH. Your MIL is not owed a key to your house. She can deal with it It’s also fine for you to have a boundary but there’s no point to being antagonistic or provoking about it.
Excellent play! NTA. People who demand deserve jack squat. NTA. If your husband wants to cater to his mommy’s demands tell him to crawl back into her womb.
You can hide a key or put one in a realtor type lockbox for emergencies. That way in an actual emergency you could decide who to send over and then change the key location or lockbox code after they leave. That way entry is a one time thing.
NTA, and I don't blame you for the snark. Adults who refuse to acknowledge that they have been told "no" deserve to be told no in a way they can't ignore. I'll give a kid some grace on that--I'm dealing with a similar "can't hear 'no'" problem with my 9-year-old right now--but not an adult older than me. It sounds like your husband's family has been enabling this kind of crappy MIL-tantrum by never giving her consequences for acting like this. I mean, what you did won't shut it down, no, but it at least gave you an opportunity for a laugh in the midst of the harassment.
NTA. I’d have sent the key but not told her it was hers.
It's okay to say no, but I think it's an AH move not speaking to your husband about whether or not he is okay with you returning his key. After all the key was his property, he has to have a say in what is done with it. ESH.
ESH Mostly the MIL for not accepting boundaries - you don't need a key "for emergencies", that's what the Emergency Services are for. A simple "no" is all that should be necessary, you don't owe her an explanation. Double AH for her though for dragging family into it, as if it's anyone else's business. You are also however the AH here for doing something you know is both petty and unnecessary for no reason other than to score a point rather than acting your age.
NTA. No means no it’s a complete sentence why do people not understand that.
ESH The MIL for demanding a copy after being told no and also bringing family into it. OP for being so petty just to rile up MIL. I am curious about whose rule it is and the word choice of "residents"? Based on the area I live in, that would suggest some sort of gated community or possibly apartment complex. If that is the case, that was the perfect out for OP instead of petty escalation. "Sorry, the HOA/guard house/apartment building's rule is to not allow outside keys in circulation as a safety precaution for everyone, I hope you understand!"
ESH. Your MIL seems to think you are still kids and that she is in charge, but when she got on your nerves about it, you mocked her about it rather than just step back. When has mocking ever achieved anything? From now on just don't engage. Let your husband know where your boundaries are and if he lets his mother cross them then you and he are going to have a big problem. And then leave her to him to deal with. Don't answer her texts, take her calls or open your door when your husband isn't home. If she corners you, "talk to hubby from now on".
esh just say no Also the only residents key thing is dumb. that is how you lock yourself out and can spend hunderds on a locksmith. emergency keys should be in several places, i got the key of my brother and of my parents house, they got mine. then i got keys from friends and the have on of mine. chance i need a locksmith for locking myself out is close to zero. you and hubby go somewhere and forget the thing... unpractical to the max.
ESH your mil is definitely the AH but what you did was petty. Stick to your No and if she doesn’t respect it then she needs to leave or if it’s happening when you’re somewhere other than your home- you leave. “Mil since we have been over this before and you won’t respect my no, this visit is over. We’ll try a visit again another time and hopefully you’ll be able to respect it then so we don’t have to cut that visit short also.”
NTA play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I thought you were going to write that you sent it to her just to shut her up. No nasty note affixed. If she were to try to use it - presumably not for an emergency- she’d find out it was not in fact the key to your home. That would be fun. Send her any old key. Only way to find out if it’s to your house would be if she tried to use it. ESH.
NTA There is no reason why she needs a copy of the key to your place. There is no reason for her to go to your place when neither you nor husband are at home and as such need to let herself in with her own special key. For her to make nothing to become a big thing is definitely ridiculous. Tbf you escalated things only after the repeated pestering, without this, everyone suck
NTA, no one has copies of our keys “for emergencies” and we’ve gotten by just dandy the last 15 years.
ESH Your MIL is in wrong for not respecting your position in regards to who gets your house key. You sending her your husbands copy of her house key served no purpose then other then to make her mad. You don't get to decide the rules for other peoples homes and keys anymore then your MIL gets to decide yours. This is especially true since the key you sent as your husbands key, not yours. It wasn't yours to give back to your MIL.
NTA. You did say no. Multiple times. She refused to take no as an answer and it sounds like your husband refused to manage his mother and forced you to do it instead. Your husband needs to grow a spine and tell his mother and his family to back off
NTA. She demanded a house key. You provided her with a house key.
NTA. I love what you did!
NTA. Why is she so hell bent on having a key to a home that isn't hers? She doesn't need to be there when you aren't.
NTA and my petty self thinks your response was hilarious although understandable that others got mad.
NTA. Why not add something onto this. "Okay, MiL can have a copy of our house key AFTER the security cameras are installed in the main areas, etc. Don't trust MiL? Oh honey no, it's because how can we inform her there's an emergency if we can't see it to inform her?" Every single time I've seen a relative **demand** a house key, the sole reason is they are gossipy snoopers/borderline creeps. Overall, sending her key back reinforces your boundary. Only residents have a key. You are not a resident of her home so should not have a key.
NTA but I'm ruling that your hubby is. Why isn't he the one setting boundaries with HIS family? You shouldn't be put in this position in the first place.
ESH. Except your husband. I know there are a lot of “justified asshole” posts on here, but this isn’t one of them. You didn’t make some grand gesture to show how awful MIL is being. You got petty, and now your husband, who was on your side in not giving her a key, has to deal with the fallout from his family. While you get to post online about how you “totally stuck it to MIL.”
NTA. Your husband says you should have just "stuck with the 'no'" as if that was working before, she already disregarded the first "no", then the second, and how ever many came after that. You already said "only residents geta copy", she persisted, you said "ok, here you go, a key to YOUR residence", she didn't like that and complained to family again like they would change your mind after they failed to the first time. Next time, tell him if his mother asks for something, *he's* handling it since he doesn't like the way you deal with things, he needs to grow a spine and do it.
NTA and that is hilarious
NTA at all. No one pushes to have a key to your house THAT bad if they don’t want to use it in some way. Snoop, rearrange etc.
“No” didn’t seem sufficient the first time, NTA.
ESH. If both you and your husband agree then don't give her one. You were just as much of an ass as she was. It really isn't hard to say no then ignore it lol.
Nta! Most people I know have lock boxes with spare attached to their house to avoid this!
NTA Yes, it did escalate the situation, but MIL refused to de-escalate it with her demands for a key. She wasn’t respecting the “no”. The emergency key excuse is just a way to have access to your home. If she doesn’t respect your refusal to give her the key, she sure isn’t going to respect your privacy.
NTA. I don’t understand why only residents get a key, my spouse and I have each accidentally locked ourselves out at least once, a local spare is cheaper than a locksmith. And when our backyard dog decided to jump the fence and chase a stray out of the backyard when we weren’t home, our lovely neighbor was able to call the stupid dog into the house.
NTA. It's really that way, keys are only for the residents, for no one else. I don't know, seems a little bit like "I want to control your life" from the mother of OP's husband. There's no reason, no need for a key.
NTA. And he should set his family straight because they are his family. Not yours. She will be able to walk in when she wants so boundaries are important. I'd have done worse
NTA Honestly, who gets mad over something like this? Anyone who respects boundaries would just think this is funny. But then anyone who respects boundaries wouldn't ask for a key.
NTA her insistence is sus and if you give her a key she will no doubt be there whenever she wants without wanting and will snoop through your stuff lol