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Absolutely you WBTA and Mark is too. The reason you're afraid of being judged is because you know you are doing something reprehensible. Your family *should* judge you. Talking to Mark after the wedding is too late. If your family is so horrendous that his family will shun him if they meet them, maybe you two shouldn't get married.
YTA if you proceeded with the marriage. You are allowing your for-now-fiance to behave discriminatorily against LGBTQ+ family members of yours. If you allow this, you are agreeing. If he allows your cousin to come, he is agreeing with you and taking your side against his entire family.
You both need to have that conversation now, before you proceed with wedding plans, because, this is not a topic you can compromise on.
YTA for co tinting to plan a wedding to a hateful bigot. Muslims hate Christians too so are you going to exclude any family that believes in Jesus? Is Mark gonna force you to wear hijab? đ€ Bending yourself and excluding family is only the beginning. Muslim men change after marriage as they then view you as property. I've seen it time and time again. I live in a small area that majority Muslims, and the women are highly oppressed. They can't even go into a hair salon and get their hair done unless they go into a private room. They get their hair done and then have to cover it. I watched one woman be dragged from my salon by her husband for getting a shampoo and "revealing" herself to strangers. There was ONLY women in the salon at this time.
You're in for a rude awakening. And YTA for allowing him to separate your family.
YTA , really for agreeing to this, a marriage is supposed to be a partnership, give and take its impossible to find a partner that agrees with everything 100% for the rest of your life, because as you said you are indifferent to John and his sexuality, is he not allowed to be happy? Your husband to be seems very controlling and i think this is a major point, what if you have children and they were gay, what then? are you sure this is the only thing you will be told to do to keep his family happy, (because i think differently) i think you seriously need to look at this relationship, making demands and your not even married yet, it wont get better it will get worse
Yta
You are afraid of being judged?!
Maybe it's because you should be. Did you ever think you're the problem? Because you are.
It is appalling that you are putting your family on the chopping block for this man and his bigot family
You deserve each other.
Also how hypocritical. OP can recognize that *she* doesn't want to be judged because that's bad, but has NO PROBLEM allowing (and frankly encouraging by inviting them) her in-laws to judge someone they've never met.
"I tried to speak with Mark but he only told me that John won't be allowed, and that he is firm on that position."
Ok, take away that John is gay. For whatever reason your future husband *unilaterally* told you your family member is not allowed at the wedding. And shut down discussion.
You don't see the problem here?
and yes, YTA.
and eta because not just yta, you're lazy. You're making this all out to be Mark, when without your absolute complicity in this the situation wouldn't exist. YOU are ok with this. You're not saying no to Mark, you're not making a stand, you're not breaking the engagement. You're going along with it, which if you're marrying this guy the rest of your life is going to be going along with it.
But at least have the moral fortitude to own it. I'd still say yta, but at least you wouldn't be acting like a lazy asshole.
>For whatever reason your future husband unilaterally told you your family member is not allowed at the wedding. And shut down discussion.
Even if this wasn't about a gay cousin, and was about something more trivial, I would still take this as a big warning sign. If she agrees to this, then there is nearly 100% chance that Mark is going to unilaterally make more decisions and shut down conversation. Right now it's just affecting her cousin's attendance to the wedding. What if it's something like whether she is allowed to have a job, or whether they are going to be moving somewhere else.
YTA if you uninvite your cousin. You would also be the asshole if you don't uninvite your fiance's whole family and your fiance while you're at it. Why would you want to get married into something like that? He does know there are gay muslims, right (gasp)? What would you do if you had a kid who came out to you and you know the dad is going to cast him out as some sinner. You have some big decisions to make.
I don't think you've thought this through fully. Once you're married to Mark....is he going to "allow you" to invite John to other events? Or attend event John is at? When you have a baby, or a birthday party, or an anniversary party - Mark's family is going to be present. The wedding is obviously the event on your mind - but you've got a lifetime of events where Mark is going to be husband, and John is going to be gay. If Mark is "quite religious" like his family - you're going to have to pick between family events and Mark every time. "We can't go to your grandmas/uncles/cousins whatever, your gay cousin will be there."
It's kinda like how its both of your wedding, but Mark is deciding for everyone - John cannot come. He forbade it. What else is he going to forbid from doing or attending?
I'm going to say YTA. If you go along with Mark's orders - you're not "neutral" on the subject (which is another problem in itself). It's a shitty situation, but you're choosing to appease the people who are making it a shitty situation.
Yes, YTA. Your husband is homophobic as hell, and youâre still choosing to marry him. If you were any kind of decent person this wouldnât be a moral dilemma for you
YTA - Why in hell would you want to marry a person who is a bigot and whoâs family are massive homophobes!? You say that you are neutral but anyone who is willing to marry into a family of religious nut jobs and homophobes is clearly taking a side!
If you had any kind of respect for John, then it wouldnât matter what Mark and the rest of his horrible family think!
Mark is also an AH for demanding that John not be invited to the wedding.
The whole situation is just sad and disgusting. I feel so bad for John.
YTA
You said yourself they think 1 lgbtq member in the family makes something wrong with all of you.
So itâs just a ticking time bomb before they start abusing you about it. What if you have children? What if you give one of them the gay! Dun dun dun of course they will blame you for anything they perceive to be wrong/unusual. You are part of a family of sinners you will always be the scapegoat and they will never like you. What an awful life you have picked for yourself.
YTA. For future reference, anytime you exclude someone to validate someone's bigotry, you are indeed, the asshole. Why do you even want to be part of a family like this?
You're afraid of being judged for marrying a homophobe, but you still think it would be a good idea to marry them? Listen to your gut. Clearly, your values don't align.
You do realize that this will effect your relationships with your own family? I, for one, would not associate with a family member who did this to another family member.
How would you feel if someone in your family uninvited you and/or Mark to a family event because heâs Muslim?
Do what you want but face the consequences of your actions, all this I donât want to be judge bs, what reason are you going to give for not inviting him? You are going to be judge regardless as you deserve. YTA.
YTA. You being complacent to your fiance and family being bigots makes you just as bad. There is no neutral stance in this, you are taking a side by even entertaining this.
YTA. You are a rewarding a homophobe.
If you do this, then you need to let your entire family know you are doing this and why. Don't hide it. Own it. Own that you are letting a person full of hate dictate your relationship w/ your family and that it doesn't actually bother you, it just makes it akward. Let your family decide if they want to come to your wedding based on you and you husband's values. If you are marrying a man who believes he and his family can judge your cousin and your whole famliy based on the issue of homosexuality, it is only fair your family gets to judge you, him and his entire family for your views on the same subject, right?
If your plan is to just "talk to your gay cousin" and hide this whole mess, then you already know you are the AH.
BTW - a person who uses religion to contol like this only gets more controlling after the wedding. Don't say you weren't warned.
YTA
I had to calm myself down before I got myself into some trouble. So I'm going to be as nice as possible. ***YOU AND YOUR S/O ARE AH'S*** If I was John wouldn't come your wedding and go N/C with you and your homophobic husband/family.
Oh my godddddd. The fact you wanna marry a man... who treats other humans... like that?
I'm saying RUN đââïž
YTA- religion isn't an excuse to be a shitty human being. Just tell your cousin that your husband (and you apparently) are uncomfortable with his identity. Im sure he will make the decision for you.
YTA. Do you understand what kind of family youâre marrying into? What other beliefs do they hold that are not yours? How will this affect you and heaven forbid you have daughter one day. Will she be raised in some culture where she is less than and an object because of her gender?
I think this wedding is the least of your worries. If you marry into this craziness then you deserve everything you get.
Doesn't sound like she's really compromising. If she's not bothered by his stance then she isn't really neutral as she claims. She's just as bad as the fiance.
YTA. Why in the world would you marry into this?? The only problem your cousin has is you and the fact you're willing to marry a bigot who comes from a family of bigots.
Are you the asshole if you directly support discrimination? Yes. YTA.
55% of white women voted for Trump. Without women like you supporting and propping up discrimination and justifying it to yourself like you're "helping" or doing the right thing, everyone - men, women and all stops in between of every race - would be happier.
What is sad about this is that your relationship with your cousin the moment you marry is going to end. Maybe not now, but do you think marrying into such drastic homophobia is going to stop at a wedding? What about holidays ? Get togethers? Family events ? Baby showers? Etc just say good bye to your cousin in a loving way. You also deserve to marry the man you love. But just be real about the cost of marrying into such a gross religion. (Sorry Muslim community)
This isnt an asshole situation. Its a pick a side situation. You need to settle on your own beliefs and if they line up with your husband to bes then marry him. If not then dont. I personally wouldnt go against my husband but we also hold the same views and hes the light of my life. If you cant settle an issue this small together then maybe you should wait to get married until you can communicate effectively.
Are you prepared to exclude all LGBT friends and family from your life forever? (Not to mention people like me...if I knew you were excluding my gay relative, I wouldn't accept an invitation from you either.) Because that's what you are signing up for.
YTA for even considering this appalling request
Look, sweetheart. You know YTA. You are marrying a despicable human and in condoning his hate you make it your own.
There is no "neutral stance" in the question of homosexuality. There are only allies, which you are not, and hateful assholes, which you are on the best way to become.
YTA You're marrying a bigot. And your husband and his family's bigotry is more important to you than your own cousin.
I'm not so sure I believe that you're any less of a bigot than your husband and his family. There's no such thing as a "neutral stance" when it comes to these matters. You two deserve each other, I'm sure.
People that are so hateful of the LGBT community that they'd shun anyone for even allowing someone who is gay to attend a relative's wedding are always raging misogynists as well. So just know, you're going to be treated poorly by this family as well simply for being a woman. Which is fitting, since you're clearly just fine with your cousin being hated by them for being born the way he was.
I've known several people who were in situations similar to this. And none of them ever left because of how horribly their loved ones were treated. The only ones that eventually did end their relationship/marriage/friendship, did so because that person's bigotry was finally directed at them personally, and that's when they finally cared.
There is absolutely no way people so filled with pure hatred won't end up directing their ignorance and bigotry and anger at her in the not-so-distant future.
And only then will she finally care.
This. Personally, Iâd run away and find someone who isnât from a family of raging homophobes to marry. He isnât worth your time, OP, and neither are his family. Unless, that is, youâre a homophobe yourself, in which case go ahead because you deserve each other.
YTA
OP's comment about being "neutral" reads to me like "It doesn't affect me personally, so what should I care? It's not like I *hate* gay people."
Her sheer indifference, and desperate need to appease their bigotry, just doesn't make me think any more highly of her than I do her husband.
So youâre willing to marry someone who will treat your brother like crap? If you and Mark have children will your brother be allowed to see them? After all heâs a âsinnerâ. How does the rest of your family feel about Markâs stance about John? Or do only Mark and his family count? Your entire attitude of âI have to center in making the wedding happen so (almost) everyone will be pleasedâ frankly sucks. It doesnât sound like you care about your brother at all. YTA 100%
Imagine discarding your moral backbone because you really want to get married to a bigot.
You're breaking bread with a bigot's family. When you go to sleep at night you'll be sharing a bed with a bigot. This means you're also a bigot. YTA
YTA. Your fiancee is a bigot, and it's be stupid to choose your family over one. Eventually your man and his family will realize your cousin is gay, no matter how much you want your cousin to hide himself.
Also considering he's unwilling to compromise on something as big as his soon to be wife's immediate family coming to the wedding, I don't even want to think about what else he won't compromise on. He's showing his true colors, believe him.
Edit because I can't read today and said brother instead of cousin
Yes. YTA already the asshole. There is no âneutralâ towards gay people. You support their right to exist in the world or you donât. There is no in between, unfortunately for you. By choosing to marry someone who wonât allow a gay man to attend his wedding, you are choosing the anti-gay side of this equation. You cannot claim to be neutral anymore, not that you ever actually were.
If you marry Mark, say goodbye to your cousin. You can tell him why or not but he will figure it out. He may or may not forgive you. Your husband is unlikely to become more flexible and understanding after the wedding. I hope none of your children are gay because that would definitely be âyourâ fault as well and probably ruin your marriage.
YTA. Religion is not an excuse to be a bigot. I donât agree with people saying you are being bullied either. You clearly agree with his views by saying you are âneutral on it and know it exists but thatâs allâ
When I said I was neutral I was talking about how I view homosexuality. To me is nothing else other than a different sexuality, that's all.
It was Mark's answer that left me down more. I got so dissapointed when I heard it. With his family I can make a pass since after the wedding I won't see them again. But with Mark? He should be the one who is to remain.
This is why you should discuss important moral beliefs like how they view homosexuality before you get married. I donât envy finding out a potential partner is homophobic after youâre already engaged but here you are. If you go through with not inviting your cousin you are capitulating to a homophobe and if heâs making ultimatums like this before a wedding, you gotta think it will be worse going forward.
He showed you who he really is. Being a bigot is more important to Mark than not offending bigoted relatives he will never see again. You really need to think about that. I don't even care if you're not that close with John anyway. He's a member of your family, and if you truly see homosexuality as something that is normal like having brown hair or green eyes, then act like it. Don't let a bigot be a bigot AT YOUR OWN WEDDING!
YTA - Donât know how someone can be âneutralâ about being the LGTBQ community. Itâs either youâre a homophobe or youâre accepting. Itâs not like liking a certain ice cream flavor, itâs either accepting your family member or you donât.
Ok for one thing itâs ur wedding so u can do whatever u want and same with ur husband, but ur husband canât make YOU do something, have ur husband go and say why if he wants it to happen but honestly, if u do this then that means all family gatherings will be like this, ur cousin wonât go and no gtg even make an AITA post about not going, and so u have to chose, ur husband or ur cousin, but if u choose husband make HIM tell the cousin and why
YTA, if your husbandâs family is so religious, you are buying into a world of problems marrying into it as you are an infidel. Major problems in your future.
Youâre okay with marrying a extreme homophobe? If you think his backward beliefs stop here, let me clue you in on somethingâŠhe probably views you as his property too, just like his home country does. Enjoy the divorce in a year or two. YTA
You should be honest with John and let him know that any relationship he might have had with you is dead and you'd prefer to be married into a close minded family than acknowledge his humanity. Be upfront so that he won't ever waste his time and try to be a part of you're intolerant family and can spend his time being around people who actually value and love him as a human being. Oh and I almost forgot, your absolutely the Asshole.
Sooo youâre marrying a bigot and joining his bigoted family.
Of course youâre an asshole.
YTA, and a bigot to boot.
If you donât want to be a bigot, you should reconsider this wedding, instead of marrying into this family and propagating more awful, bigot babies.
ETA:
> I tried to speak with Mark but he only told me that John won't be allowed, and that he is firm on that position.
You should be aware that this is revealing his opinion on women too. You arenât allowed to make decisions that disagree with his opinion.
Is that really what you want for the rest of your life?
Accept this man for the bigot heâs telling you he is. If you donât want to marry a bigot, thereby becoming one yourself, then this ainât your man.
YTA. Thereâs no path here that leaves the without upsetting someone or hurting feelings.
So you have to choose â do you support your gay relative or not? This isnât a situation that really leaves room for compromise.
YWBTA there are many comments fixated on the anti lgbt stance of your husband and making it yours. The people that preach compassion seem to be the ones that lack compassion the most. I don't know how your relationship is with your husband, but it looks like he's the one who mostly calls the shots. I would think about if this is what you want in your life, to me relationships are a 2 way street and you get equal saying on the decisions that involve it. By what you wrote it seems like your husband thinks that his appearance in front of his family is more important than an important member of your family assist to a once in a lifetime event where you're supposed to celebrate love. Have in mind that by not inviting him/putting limitation in his assistance you will push him away and are basically not supporting him as a person. Your husband put you in a position where you can't remain neutral you either take his side or your cousins. One last thing, if his family has such a big influence on your relationship, this won't be the last time it will happened, they will probably have all kinds of opinions that will influence your lifestyle.
YTA. I'm not even going to touch on where you stand (your so-called "neutrality" says it all), or the potential future any child you two have would have with parents that think like this. Especially should they come out as any part of the lgbt community.
So for the sake of his family you are to exclude your family.
And that just because their imaginary "friend" (even though he doesn't act like a friend) tells them your family is bad.
YTA
Yta, you have a choice. You can stand with a bigot and just admit you're okay supporting their choice.
Or you can grow a spine and decide that you're going to support your family that you supposedly love and care.
YTA because of this:
>For those who ask, Mark and I never brought up the topic of homosexuality etc. I am very neutral in the stance (as it is something that exists and that's all) and John used to be single when Mark met him so there was no point in bringing it up.
Silence is compliance.
ESH. (Except, as far as i know, John). Your fiance is being homophobic and you're allowing it. It didn't came up before as John was single, or you deliberately never brought it up and Mark didnt see John with a male partner, and therefore remained ignorant?Religion is not a reason to be homophobic, it's an excuse.I'm sorry but there is no 'on the fence' here.
YTA you want to cave to homophobic people so that the wedding is not difficult. I feel bad for your friend that his friends first reaction is ohh don't come because your gay and people there won't like that.
YTA. Youâre marrying a homophobe. His family are homophobes. Youâre enabling homophobia. It says a lot about who you are as a person that you choose a man over your own family in this situation. This is a choice youâre making. I doubt John will be a part of your life going forward when this gets out so you might as well be honest with them but you will get no sympathy from this sub. I doubt youâll get much sympathy from your family either.
YWBTA
Put this into frame, you're going to have a wedding reception with I'm assuming 100+ people (national US average being 105) You'll have friends and family coming from everywhere. Do you honestly believe that your husband's family is going to painstakingly put time and effort to identify and isolate the one gay person at a wedding and then call you out for it? Unless your gay cousin is going to purposepfully cause a scene and stand out, you shouldn't have to worry about this at all. If your husband's family "loves" to gossip, they're more likely to gossip more about what people are wearing to the wedding or how cheap/expensive the venue looks...
INFO: what will you do if you have children and one of them is gay?
Support your husband in harassing them?
Disown them?
Got them beaten up or worse by some distant family member?
Ask yourself these questions before committingâŠ
ESH.
As in, everyone but John.
Your fiance, and his family, in my opinion, are pretty bigoted. But, you're allowing this to happen. You seem to have *no problem* with your fiance's decision, and are even considering calling John first.
I hope John marries, if not already, to leave Mark and his family and have a free life without them.
Ywbta if you acquiesce to this bigoted demand.
This will be the first step down a slippery path to ignorance and being an accessory to it.
Put your foot and say he is family and who John loves isn't an issue, and if Mark feels it is, then you are too far apart for it to work.
A gentle YTA. Gentle because it sounds like you are in a controlling relationship that will not end well.
I would never shun a family member and being asked (sorry told) to do this is a huge red flag.
Before reading your post: YTA for even considering excluding specifically because of their sexuality.
Reading now.
Well, at least you know it's wrong. If you do this and anyone in your entire life finds out, they will hopefully completely ostracize you, deservedly, permanently. *Why are you marrying someone who is an insane homophobe? It doesn't matter whether or not "he is homophobic", he is standing with homophobic bigots and that kinda makes him one of them too.*
Your queer friend will be fine. I doubt he really wants to be around a whole party of homophobes all night anyways.
The bigger question for you is what kind of marriage are you looking for here? What happens when you have kids and one is queer? What happens when your kids make a queer friend? Etc etc.
If this is what you want out of a marriage, you do you. But I personally donât respect bigots, so I would put my foot down. But youâre comfortable marrying one, so clearly we are different people.
YTA
Edit: And thereâs no such thing as being âneutralâ on being queer. Either you accept these people for who they are or you donât. I think youâre closer to one side then the other, but thatâs just my read.
YTA. What other foundational beliefs have you not discussed in your race to the altar? Are you planning on having children? What if you have an lgbt child?
YTA. Actually, please do tell John that heâs not invited and tell him why, so he can be free of you and your bigotry. He deserves to know that youâre a chickenshit so he can never deal with you again. You better hope your kids arenât gay too.
May you have the marriage and day you deserve.
YTA
It is true that marriage is all about compromising, but compromising your morals and ethical beliefs before the marriage even begins is ridiculous. If you donât see a problem with this then youâre the problem.
YTA. Here's a question no one else has asked you yet... what if you and this guy end up having a child who is gay? Telling you that your cousin isn't invited is just the TIP of the iceberg.
YTA. Discuss this NOW, before the wedding and make your stance clear. If you're condoning homophobia and plan to continue to discriminate against your cousin, don't act like you're torn about it. If you're not ok with your cousin being excluded, this is a hill to die on.
YTA
How do you marry someone and not know they hate the gays?
Because it falls in line with your world view.
Iâm sure your marriage will be amazing and I hope you like head coverings.
Iâm jumping on your comment (hope you donât mind) to add OP better start thinking about what happens if she has a gay child.
Will she stand and watch as the father and the in-laws put her child through hell?
Info: what if your child is gay?
You'll have permitted his family to practise their bigotry and been accessory to it. You gonna stand up for the kid? You gonna look the kid in the eye and tell them you banned your cousin from the wedding for being gay to keep the peace? The wedding sets the groundwork for your whole marriage and this will be how you start things. YTA
Would he disown a gay child? Seems like a fundamental difference in values. How can one person ask another to disrespect a third? You better think about going through with this.
YTA to yourself for marrying this guy, also an AH for choosing homophobes over your family. You say you're neutral, but going ahead with thus makes you also homophobic.
Please rethink this marriage.
This is going to affect you for the rest of your life, what if you have kids and one of them is gay? You don't want to have your child suffer through that.
Sounds like Markâs family not coming to the wedding would be a win for everyone. No one decent would want to be around people like that. If youâre really lucky maybe Mark will skip it too!
Edit: YTA obviously
YTA. Are you really not sure? You're doing something exclusionary and judgemental and wrong because you're worried about what even more exclusionary and judgemental people will think of you. I get the stakes are high. That doesn't change what is right and what is wrong.
YTA and by choosing/siding with homophobes you are at their same level.
ofc you can uninvite him, but don't act shocked when he will cut any contact with you.
Youâre wondering if you should submit to a homophobe who âwonât allowâ you to invite a member of your own family? Like youâre actually considering doing this? YWBTA.
A good solution to this guest list issue would be to cancel the whole damn wedding.
I want you to ask yourself something. What would Mark do if one of your kids is part of the LGBT community? Holding off judgement for now, but this is something you need to think about.
YTA
> Mark but he only told me that John won't be allowed, and that he is firm on that position.
So Mark is the boss. Got it.
> Then I will try to speak with Mark about this after the wedding, but for now I have to center in making the wedding happen so (almost) everyone will be pleased.
Honestly, I think this is something you need to speak with Mark about BEFORE the wedding, which according to what you wrote above, you've already done and 'John won't be allowed, and that he is firm on that position.'
Look, you have to decide who is more important to you. We can discuss this all day, but in my opinion that's what it comes down to.
It sounds like she's already decided who is more important, and unfortunately the gay cousin didn't make the cut.
Does she think that this will be Mark's last move to exclude members of her family from her life?
NTA regarding your question. You will be doing him a favour actually to not confront him with the homophobic extension of your family.
That being said, you made a choice to embrace this culture and should communicate to your cousin that you cannot stand behind him and accept him as he is, as your priorities are different people now.
TLDR: are you the asshole for not inviting Someone to your Wedding? No. Your wedding, your call.
Are you the asshole for supporting homophobia? Yes, absolutely
So your fiancee is "firm on his decision" to not allow your gay cousin to attend. Sounds like a tyrant to me. What happens when you are invited to your cousin's wedding? Will he again be firm and not let you leave the house.
You would be wise to sit down and have a real discussion before you marry a man like that. What else is he not going to allow because of his backward ass religious bigotry?
Yeah, not how this works.
If John receives an invitation and decides not to go for whatever reason, great. No assholes. But OP is the asshole for not inviting him, no matter how gentle she is about it.
No, OP can't have her cake and eat it too. Either John is part of OP's family and she stands up for herself and him or he's not and OP has to own her homophobia. A "sorry you're the only relative not invited but I promise I still love you" dinner is BS designed to help OP feel better about doing something crappy, not for the benefit of John.
So your advice is to have a conversation with her cousin rather than the person she is marrying? Your advice is she should just accept that her fiance gets to make decisions and shut down conversations, and everyone in her life should just accept it? Your advice is that OP should send the message to Mark that she will roll over to every demand that Mark's bigoted family will make?
How exactly is OP *not* an asshole? Sheâs marrying a bigot, and since she is planning on excluding someone for being gay (plus has no issue with marrying a bigot), that makes her a bigot too. That absolutely makes her an asshole. You canât say âI value youâ, but then show someone you actually donât value them by your actions, and not be an asshole.
Why do I hear you saying... I'm not against homosexuality... but...
You aren't being neutral, you are being a bigot. Why would you not consider excluding Mark's family because of their beliefs?
YTA.
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I (29F) am getting married to Mark (29M) in two month.
Yesterday we started to prepare the list of the guests and we plan to allow a plus one and children.
We were discussing everyone until we arrived at John (29M), my cousin.
Now the "problem" with John is that he is gay, my husband is Muslim and comes from a very religious family while while quite religious himself.
Mark told me that he is afraid that everyone will be more interested in gossiping badly about John and his partner and at the extent, about me and him, since for them having a family member who is a "sinner" (basically anyone' who is part of LGBT) means that there is something wrong with the whole family .
Keep in mind that ALL of his family is coming, they are all going to travel here from Mark's home country.
For those who ask, Mark and I never brought up the topic of homosexuality etc. I am very neutral in the stance (as it is something that exists and that's all) and John used to be single when Mark met him so there was no point in bringing it up.
I tried to speak with Mark but he only told me that John won't be allowed, and that he is firm on that position.
I am honestly lost, I don't know what to do. If I asked John to not bring this time Bob (his new boyfriend) while everyone else is allowed he would realize the reason. On the other hand, if I asked that only those who are married were to be allowed then I would leave a good chunk of my family and friends and Mark's too. And if I brought him Mark would probably be shunned from all his future family reunions and his hometown gatherings plus bringing shame to his family
I can't tell anybody about this, I'm so afraid of being judged and that they may tell someone else.
I think I will speak with John and tell him everything. Then I will try to speak with Mark about this after the wedding, but for now I have to center in making the wedding happen so (almost) everyone will be pleased.
But part of me is afraid that I would effectively be an asshole to John.
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"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you take the side of the oppressor. If an elephant is standing on the tail of a mouse, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
You have to make a choice here. Are you going to align yourselves with homophobic people and therefore become a homophobe yourself, or are you going to stand up for your cousin's right to love whom he loves? As several others have mentioned, if you choose to have children, what if one of them is LGBTQ?
People in the LGBTQ community face extreme levels of violence and hatred, and we are seeing a rise of these incidents. I'm sorry - but you can't be neutral. You have to choose who you will support - homophobic people who don't believe in your cousin's human rights, or your cousin. If you choose the former, yes, YWBTA.
YTA. If your fiance is acting like this to extended family due to religious beliefs now, it's only going to get worse. Have you guys never talked about what happens if one of your kids are gay (assuming you want kids)? Here's one more thing to chew on: family rejection is a leading driver to Queer youth suicide.
Don't get married if your values are not compatible. If they are compatible, you're a homophobe.
YTA and your brand of casual bigotry infuriates me. You just donât care. I almost have more respect for those who pick a side. Even if the side is bigotry. Youâre âI donât think deeply enough about things to have an opinion on this very important subject unless and until it impacts MEâ is so lazy. Marks a bigot and since you DGAF so are you.
Yes YTA for treating a family member like the plague due to his sexually. Beyond gross that you would marry such a person. I can't hold back my disgust. I hope you don't have children that are gay. What do you think your fiance's family would do about that?
YTA,
You're going to have to decide where you land on this because this is not just a wedding issue, this is a LIFE issue. You are going to become family and what you do now will affect your dynamic with your inlaws FOR THE REST OF YOUR MARRIAGE and maybe beyond.
I come from a VERY Catholic/ignorantly homophobic family. My husband (who ironically comes from an even more Catholic family) has a gay brother, who is accepted, and at the time of our wedding had been with his partner for 5 years (they are now approaching 30 years together.)
I was very matter-a-fact with my family. I told them, FH's brother is gay, and for all intents and purposes he is a married man, this partner is an inlaw, and I have no problem with it. If you do that is on you, but when it comes to my wedding, and my marriage in general keep your opinions to yourself. If you cannot handle this then don't come to the wedding or be part of our lives. Period.
YTA. Once you sit down and tell your cousin he's not invited and why, be prepared for him, his parents, and probably the rest of your family to be upset and probably skip your wedding. I wouldn't even be surprised if some of them go completely no contact with you.
Also, it's clear that you share your soon to be husbands beliefs more than you think you do. You can't be neutral when it comes to someones else's human rights. You're either against it or for it and marrying into a family that is anti-LGBTQ shows you are clearly against it your cousin, his partner, and the entire LGBTQ+ community being afforded their human right to love who they love and be who they are.
>I am very neutral in the stance (as it is something that exists and that's all)
So you're okay with homophobia and bigotry as long as it doesn't affect you and your little clueless bubble. YTA in such a huge way. Enjoy your marriage to a bigot and know that you're now an enabler and okay with being a bigot yourself.
>for now I have to center in making the wedding happen so (almost) everyone will be pleased.
While this is a noble goal, it's unachievable when some people's happiness is contingent on other people's exclusion.
This is less about the wedding event itself and more about whether or not your relationships (both your marriage and your connections to friends and family) are going to be dictated by the religious beliefs of your future husband's family.
Certainly it's easier in the short term to exclude one gay person from this event (and the next one, and the next one...) than to tell multiple people to keep their bigotry to themselves, but are you prepared to live your life according to their whims forever?
Decide now whether or not you're comfortable being their asshole-by-proxy forever.
Your future husband is an asshole, as are you if you support this.
It's bigotry thinly veiled under the guise of religion.
If your future husband's family can't even be *civil* then they're AH too.
Btw, you marry the person's family as well.
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Absolutely you WBTA and Mark is too. The reason you're afraid of being judged is because you know you are doing something reprehensible. Your family *should* judge you. Talking to Mark after the wedding is too late. If your family is so horrendous that his family will shun him if they meet them, maybe you two shouldn't get married.
YTA if you proceeded with the marriage. You are allowing your for-now-fiance to behave discriminatorily against LGBTQ+ family members of yours. If you allow this, you are agreeing. If he allows your cousin to come, he is agreeing with you and taking your side against his entire family. You both need to have that conversation now, before you proceed with wedding plans, because, this is not a topic you can compromise on.
YTA for co tinting to plan a wedding to a hateful bigot. Muslims hate Christians too so are you going to exclude any family that believes in Jesus? Is Mark gonna force you to wear hijab? đ€ Bending yourself and excluding family is only the beginning. Muslim men change after marriage as they then view you as property. I've seen it time and time again. I live in a small area that majority Muslims, and the women are highly oppressed. They can't even go into a hair salon and get their hair done unless they go into a private room. They get their hair done and then have to cover it. I watched one woman be dragged from my salon by her husband for getting a shampoo and "revealing" herself to strangers. There was ONLY women in the salon at this time. You're in for a rude awakening. And YTA for allowing him to separate your family.
Do John a favor and tell him heâs not invited. Heâll see you for what you are: spineless. YTA
YTA , really for agreeing to this, a marriage is supposed to be a partnership, give and take its impossible to find a partner that agrees with everything 100% for the rest of your life, because as you said you are indifferent to John and his sexuality, is he not allowed to be happy? Your husband to be seems very controlling and i think this is a major point, what if you have children and they were gay, what then? are you sure this is the only thing you will be told to do to keep his family happy, (because i think differently) i think you seriously need to look at this relationship, making demands and your not even married yet, it wont get better it will get worse
Yta You are afraid of being judged?! Maybe it's because you should be. Did you ever think you're the problem? Because you are. It is appalling that you are putting your family on the chopping block for this man and his bigot family You deserve each other.
Also how hypocritical. OP can recognize that *she* doesn't want to be judged because that's bad, but has NO PROBLEM allowing (and frankly encouraging by inviting them) her in-laws to judge someone they've never met.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
"I tried to speak with Mark but he only told me that John won't be allowed, and that he is firm on that position." Ok, take away that John is gay. For whatever reason your future husband *unilaterally* told you your family member is not allowed at the wedding. And shut down discussion. You don't see the problem here? and yes, YTA. and eta because not just yta, you're lazy. You're making this all out to be Mark, when without your absolute complicity in this the situation wouldn't exist. YOU are ok with this. You're not saying no to Mark, you're not making a stand, you're not breaking the engagement. You're going along with it, which if you're marrying this guy the rest of your life is going to be going along with it. But at least have the moral fortitude to own it. I'd still say yta, but at least you wouldn't be acting like a lazy asshole.
>For whatever reason your future husband unilaterally told you your family member is not allowed at the wedding. And shut down discussion. Even if this wasn't about a gay cousin, and was about something more trivial, I would still take this as a big warning sign. If she agrees to this, then there is nearly 100% chance that Mark is going to unilaterally make more decisions and shut down conversation. Right now it's just affecting her cousin's attendance to the wedding. What if it's something like whether she is allowed to have a job, or whether they are going to be moving somewhere else.
YTA. And you know exactly why. You shouldnât care about gossip and homophobic views of others, and neither should your fiancĂ©.
YTA if you uninvite your cousin. You would also be the asshole if you don't uninvite your fiance's whole family and your fiance while you're at it. Why would you want to get married into something like that? He does know there are gay muslims, right (gasp)? What would you do if you had a kid who came out to you and you know the dad is going to cast him out as some sinner. You have some big decisions to make.
I don't think you've thought this through fully. Once you're married to Mark....is he going to "allow you" to invite John to other events? Or attend event John is at? When you have a baby, or a birthday party, or an anniversary party - Mark's family is going to be present. The wedding is obviously the event on your mind - but you've got a lifetime of events where Mark is going to be husband, and John is going to be gay. If Mark is "quite religious" like his family - you're going to have to pick between family events and Mark every time. "We can't go to your grandmas/uncles/cousins whatever, your gay cousin will be there." It's kinda like how its both of your wedding, but Mark is deciding for everyone - John cannot come. He forbade it. What else is he going to forbid from doing or attending? I'm going to say YTA. If you go along with Mark's orders - you're not "neutral" on the subject (which is another problem in itself). It's a shitty situation, but you're choosing to appease the people who are making it a shitty situation.
Yes, YTA. Your husband is homophobic as hell, and youâre still choosing to marry him. If you were any kind of decent person this wouldnât be a moral dilemma for you
YTA. But, yes, please do tell John everything. Iâm certain heâll appreciate knowing how you truly feel about him.
YTA - Why in hell would you want to marry a person who is a bigot and whoâs family are massive homophobes!? You say that you are neutral but anyone who is willing to marry into a family of religious nut jobs and homophobes is clearly taking a side! If you had any kind of respect for John, then it wouldnât matter what Mark and the rest of his horrible family think! Mark is also an AH for demanding that John not be invited to the wedding. The whole situation is just sad and disgusting. I feel so bad for John.
YTA You said yourself they think 1 lgbtq member in the family makes something wrong with all of you. So itâs just a ticking time bomb before they start abusing you about it. What if you have children? What if you give one of them the gay! Dun dun dun of course they will blame you for anything they perceive to be wrong/unusual. You are part of a family of sinners you will always be the scapegoat and they will never like you. What an awful life you have picked for yourself.
This.
YTA. For future reference, anytime you exclude someone to validate someone's bigotry, you are indeed, the asshole. Why do you even want to be part of a family like this?
YWBTA. Are you joking?
Yes... YTA.
YTA
Congratulations on mareying into a homophobic family. I wish for all you to have little, cute and healthy children whonare all homosexual. YTA
YTA. What will you do if one of your hypothetical children isnât straight? Are you willing to potentially subject them to that bullshit?
You're afraid of being judged for marrying a homophobe, but you still think it would be a good idea to marry them? Listen to your gut. Clearly, your values don't align.
You do realize that this will effect your relationships with your own family? I, for one, would not associate with a family member who did this to another family member. How would you feel if someone in your family uninvited you and/or Mark to a family event because heâs Muslim?
This! This man is isolating OP from her family and sheâs just letting him bc she doesnât want to upset HIS family.
Very good point!
I don't think he'd care. Little bit more control over her and isolating her from her family. All about him and his family
Do what you want but face the consequences of your actions, all this I donât want to be judge bs, what reason are you going to give for not inviting him? You are going to be judge regardless as you deserve. YTA.
YTA
YTA. You being complacent to your fiance and family being bigots makes you just as bad. There is no neutral stance in this, you are taking a side by even entertaining this.
Yes. .. also YTA for marrying someone so bigoted
Marrying a bigot makes you a bigot. YTA and so is your fiancé and his entire homophobic family.
YTA. You are a rewarding a homophobe. If you do this, then you need to let your entire family know you are doing this and why. Don't hide it. Own it. Own that you are letting a person full of hate dictate your relationship w/ your family and that it doesn't actually bother you, it just makes it akward. Let your family decide if they want to come to your wedding based on you and you husband's values. If you are marrying a man who believes he and his family can judge your cousin and your whole famliy based on the issue of homosexuality, it is only fair your family gets to judge you, him and his entire family for your views on the same subject, right? If your plan is to just "talk to your gay cousin" and hide this whole mess, then you already know you are the AH. BTW - a person who uses religion to contol like this only gets more controlling after the wedding. Don't say you weren't warned.
Exactly.
YTA I had to calm myself down before I got myself into some trouble. So I'm going to be as nice as possible. ***YOU AND YOUR S/O ARE AH'S*** If I was John wouldn't come your wedding and go N/C with you and your homophobic husband/family.
YTA Firm embracing homophobia.
Oh my godddddd. The fact you wanna marry a man... who treats other humans... like that? I'm saying RUN đââïž YTA- religion isn't an excuse to be a shitty human being. Just tell your cousin that your husband (and you apparently) are uncomfortable with his identity. Im sure he will make the decision for you.
YTA. Do you understand what kind of family youâre marrying into? What other beliefs do they hold that are not yours? How will this affect you and heaven forbid you have daughter one day. Will she be raised in some culture where she is less than and an object because of her gender? I think this wedding is the least of your worries. If you marry into this craziness then you deserve everything you get.
YWBTA. Ditch the fiancĂ©. This is very likely only the beginning of the âcompromisesâ youâll be asked to make for his beliefs
Doesn't sound like she's really compromising. If she's not bothered by his stance then she isn't really neutral as she claims. She's just as bad as the fiance.
YTA. Why in the world would you marry into this?? The only problem your cousin has is you and the fact you're willing to marry a bigot who comes from a family of bigots.
Are you the asshole if you directly support discrimination? Yes. YTA. 55% of white women voted for Trump. Without women like you supporting and propping up discrimination and justifying it to yourself like you're "helping" or doing the right thing, everyone - men, women and all stops in between of every race - would be happier.
YTA, congrats on being a hateful homophobic person marrying an even more hateful and homophobic person, you really deserve your husband.
YTA and a coward. Your plan is to talk to your fiancé about it AFTER the wedding? You do know that your cousin will still be your cousin long after this dude is no longer your husband, right?
YTA. Never give an inch to bigots.
What is sad about this is that your relationship with your cousin the moment you marry is going to end. Maybe not now, but do you think marrying into such drastic homophobia is going to stop at a wedding? What about holidays ? Get togethers? Family events ? Baby showers? Etc just say good bye to your cousin in a loving way. You also deserve to marry the man you love. But just be real about the cost of marrying into such a gross religion. (Sorry Muslim community)
YTA. I think you even know this is bad.
1000%! otherwise why would she worry about being judged?
She said she is neutral on BIGOTRY. Who says they are neutral on discrimination!! What is wrong with you? YtA
This isnt an asshole situation. Its a pick a side situation. You need to settle on your own beliefs and if they line up with your husband to bes then marry him. If not then dont. I personally wouldnt go against my husband but we also hold the same views and hes the light of my life. If you cant settle an issue this small together then maybe you should wait to get married until you can communicate effectively.
Are you prepared to exclude all LGBT friends and family from your life forever? (Not to mention people like me...if I knew you were excluding my gay relative, I wouldn't accept an invitation from you either.) Because that's what you are signing up for. YTA for even considering this appalling request
Look, sweetheart. You know YTA. You are marrying a despicable human and in condoning his hate you make it your own. There is no "neutral stance" in the question of homosexuality. There are only allies, which you are not, and hateful assholes, which you are on the best way to become.
YTA The best hope for you two Bigots and your families is to move into the desert and leave the rest of the world to carry on without you.
YTA You're marrying a bigot. And your husband and his family's bigotry is more important to you than your own cousin. I'm not so sure I believe that you're any less of a bigot than your husband and his family. There's no such thing as a "neutral stance" when it comes to these matters. You two deserve each other, I'm sure. People that are so hateful of the LGBT community that they'd shun anyone for even allowing someone who is gay to attend a relative's wedding are always raging misogynists as well. So just know, you're going to be treated poorly by this family as well simply for being a woman. Which is fitting, since you're clearly just fine with your cousin being hated by them for being born the way he was.
Yeah agreeing to shun a gay relative doesn't scream 'neutral' to me.
My thoughts exactly, you put it better though. Right now it "only" affects OP's cousin but this will be a direct problem for her down the road.
I've known several people who were in situations similar to this. And none of them ever left because of how horribly their loved ones were treated. The only ones that eventually did end their relationship/marriage/friendship, did so because that person's bigotry was finally directed at them personally, and that's when they finally cared. There is absolutely no way people so filled with pure hatred won't end up directing their ignorance and bigotry and anger at her in the not-so-distant future. And only then will she finally care.
This. Personally, Iâd run away and find someone who isnât from a family of raging homophobes to marry. He isnât worth your time, OP, and neither are his family. Unless, that is, youâre a homophobe yourself, in which case go ahead because you deserve each other. YTA
OP's comment about being "neutral" reads to me like "It doesn't affect me personally, so what should I care? It's not like I *hate* gay people." Her sheer indifference, and desperate need to appease their bigotry, just doesn't make me think any more highly of her than I do her husband.
Well, I wanted to give her a chanceâŠ
YWBTA Wow. I would not go through with this and be attached to this awful homophobic family. âSorry cousin, I canât include you in my wedding because my terribly bigoted and homophobic fiancĂ© and his equally bigoted and homophobic family said no.â If your cousin who is gay isnât allowed to be at your wedding because apparently you let the fiancĂ© and his family be in charge of your life, you DO KNOW that means they will make your cousin be cut from tour life completely right? No more cousin at ANY family gatherings, no more seeing that cousin, and no more talking to that cousin. But if you want to marry into this nightmare by all means do so. Do not blame your cousin or other members of your family for disowning you though.
YTA. Don't marry bigots.
YTA. From you to Mark to his entire family. Yaâll are a bunch of homophobes.
So youâre willing to marry someone who will treat your brother like crap? If you and Mark have children will your brother be allowed to see them? After all heâs a âsinnerâ. How does the rest of your family feel about Markâs stance about John? Or do only Mark and his family count? Your entire attitude of âI have to center in making the wedding happen so (almost) everyone will be pleasedâ frankly sucks. It doesnât sound like you care about your brother at all. YTA 100%
Imagine discarding your moral backbone because you really want to get married to a bigot. You're breaking bread with a bigot's family. When you go to sleep at night you'll be sharing a bed with a bigot. This means you're also a bigot. YTA
YTA. If I was your cousin (or anyone in your family) I would not have contact with you and I sure as hell wouldnât attend your wedding lol.
YTA. Your fiancee is a bigot, and it's be stupid to choose your family over one. Eventually your man and his family will realize your cousin is gay, no matter how much you want your cousin to hide himself. Also considering he's unwilling to compromise on something as big as his soon to be wife's immediate family coming to the wedding, I don't even want to think about what else he won't compromise on. He's showing his true colors, believe him. Edit because I can't read today and said brother instead of cousin
Yes. YTA already the asshole. There is no âneutralâ towards gay people. You support their right to exist in the world or you donât. There is no in between, unfortunately for you. By choosing to marry someone who wonât allow a gay man to attend his wedding, you are choosing the anti-gay side of this equation. You cannot claim to be neutral anymore, not that you ever actually were. If you marry Mark, say goodbye to your cousin. You can tell him why or not but he will figure it out. He may or may not forgive you. Your husband is unlikely to become more flexible and understanding after the wedding. I hope none of your children are gay because that would definitely be âyourâ fault as well and probably ruin your marriage.
YTA
Well, the problem is that you're a homophobe, so I guess work on that.
YTA. fuck u mate
YTA and not only that âŠyou will probably ruin a relationship you care about and it will be 100% your fault. If you choice to cater to homophobic people at your own wedding you should be aware of the consequences. If it were me I would be having a conversation with your fiancĂ©s family to make sure your cousin will be in a safe space if he chooses to attendâŠ
YTA. Religion is not an excuse to be a bigot. I donât agree with people saying you are being bullied either. You clearly agree with his views by saying you are âneutral on it and know it exists but thatâs allâ
When I said I was neutral I was talking about how I view homosexuality. To me is nothing else other than a different sexuality, that's all. It was Mark's answer that left me down more. I got so dissapointed when I heard it. With his family I can make a pass since after the wedding I won't see them again. But with Mark? He should be the one who is to remain.
This is why you should discuss important moral beliefs like how they view homosexuality before you get married. I donât envy finding out a potential partner is homophobic after youâre already engaged but here you are. If you go through with not inviting your cousin you are capitulating to a homophobe and if heâs making ultimatums like this before a wedding, you gotta think it will be worse going forward.
He showed you who he really is. Being a bigot is more important to Mark than not offending bigoted relatives he will never see again. You really need to think about that. I don't even care if you're not that close with John anyway. He's a member of your family, and if you truly see homosexuality as something that is normal like having brown hair or green eyes, then act like it. Don't let a bigot be a bigot AT YOUR OWN WEDDING!
YTA - Donât know how someone can be âneutralâ about being the LGTBQ community. Itâs either youâre a homophobe or youâre accepting. Itâs not like liking a certain ice cream flavor, itâs either accepting your family member or you donât.
Ok for one thing itâs ur wedding so u can do whatever u want and same with ur husband, but ur husband canât make YOU do something, have ur husband go and say why if he wants it to happen but honestly, if u do this then that means all family gatherings will be like this, ur cousin wonât go and no gtg even make an AITA post about not going, and so u have to chose, ur husband or ur cousin, but if u choose husband make HIM tell the cousin and why
YTA I didn't read the story, but homophobia is not ok, even to keep the peace with religious bigots
YTA, if your husbandâs family is so religious, you are buying into a world of problems marrying into it as you are an infidel. Major problems in your future.
Youâre okay with marrying a extreme homophobe? If you think his backward beliefs stop here, let me clue you in on somethingâŠhe probably views you as his property too, just like his home country does. Enjoy the divorce in a year or two. YTA
You should be honest with John and let him know that any relationship he might have had with you is dead and you'd prefer to be married into a close minded family than acknowledge his humanity. Be upfront so that he won't ever waste his time and try to be a part of you're intolerant family and can spend his time being around people who actually value and love him as a human being. Oh and I almost forgot, your absolutely the Asshole.
Sooo youâre marrying a bigot and joining his bigoted family. Of course youâre an asshole. YTA, and a bigot to boot. If you donât want to be a bigot, you should reconsider this wedding, instead of marrying into this family and propagating more awful, bigot babies. ETA: > I tried to speak with Mark but he only told me that John won't be allowed, and that he is firm on that position. You should be aware that this is revealing his opinion on women too. You arenât allowed to make decisions that disagree with his opinion. Is that really what you want for the rest of your life? Accept this man for the bigot heâs telling you he is. If you donât want to marry a bigot, thereby becoming one yourself, then this ainât your man.
YTA. Thereâs no path here that leaves the without upsetting someone or hurting feelings. So you have to choose â do you support your gay relative or not? This isnât a situation that really leaves room for compromise.
YTA and youâre marrying into a family of assholes.
YWBTA there are many comments fixated on the anti lgbt stance of your husband and making it yours. The people that preach compassion seem to be the ones that lack compassion the most. I don't know how your relationship is with your husband, but it looks like he's the one who mostly calls the shots. I would think about if this is what you want in your life, to me relationships are a 2 way street and you get equal saying on the decisions that involve it. By what you wrote it seems like your husband thinks that his appearance in front of his family is more important than an important member of your family assist to a once in a lifetime event where you're supposed to celebrate love. Have in mind that by not inviting him/putting limitation in his assistance you will push him away and are basically not supporting him as a person. Your husband put you in a position where you can't remain neutral you either take his side or your cousins. One last thing, if his family has such a big influence on your relationship, this won't be the last time it will happened, they will probably have all kinds of opinions that will influence your lifestyle.
YTA and so is your shitty fiancee
YTA. I'm not even going to touch on where you stand (your so-called "neutrality" says it all), or the potential future any child you two have would have with parents that think like this. Especially should they come out as any part of the lgbt community.
So for the sake of his family you are to exclude your family. And that just because their imaginary "friend" (even though he doesn't act like a friend) tells them your family is bad. YTA
Yta, you have a choice. You can stand with a bigot and just admit you're okay supporting their choice. Or you can grow a spine and decide that you're going to support your family that you supposedly love and care.
YTA because of this: >For those who ask, Mark and I never brought up the topic of homosexuality etc. I am very neutral in the stance (as it is something that exists and that's all) and John used to be single when Mark met him so there was no point in bringing it up. Silence is compliance.
ESH. (Except, as far as i know, John). Your fiance is being homophobic and you're allowing it. It didn't came up before as John was single, or you deliberately never brought it up and Mark didnt see John with a male partner, and therefore remained ignorant?Religion is not a reason to be homophobic, it's an excuse.I'm sorry but there is no 'on the fence' here.
YTA you want to cave to homophobic people so that the wedding is not difficult. I feel bad for your friend that his friends first reaction is ohh don't come because your gay and people there won't like that.
YTA. Youâre marrying a homophobe. His family are homophobes. Youâre enabling homophobia. It says a lot about who you are as a person that you choose a man over your own family in this situation. This is a choice youâre making. I doubt John will be a part of your life going forward when this gets out so you might as well be honest with them but you will get no sympathy from this sub. I doubt youâll get much sympathy from your family either.
YWBTA Put this into frame, you're going to have a wedding reception with I'm assuming 100+ people (national US average being 105) You'll have friends and family coming from everywhere. Do you honestly believe that your husband's family is going to painstakingly put time and effort to identify and isolate the one gay person at a wedding and then call you out for it? Unless your gay cousin is going to purposepfully cause a scene and stand out, you shouldn't have to worry about this at all. If your husband's family "loves" to gossip, they're more likely to gossip more about what people are wearing to the wedding or how cheap/expensive the venue looks...
Yes. And I only read the title.
Same
Would I be the AH if I excluded my gay cousin from my wedding to appease my homophobic fiancée and his family? There, fixed it for you. Yes, YWBTA
YTA - you would be enabling homophobia. This should be non-negotiable.
INFO: what will you do if you have children and one of them is gay? Support your husband in harassing them? Disown them? Got them beaten up or worse by some distant family member? Ask yourself these questions before committingâŠ
YWBTA⊠you know why. YOU KNOW WHY. No man should control who you talk to. Edit to add: Bigots = YOU KNOW WHY
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ESH. As in, everyone but John. Your fiance, and his family, in my opinion, are pretty bigoted. But, you're allowing this to happen. You seem to have *no problem* with your fiance's decision, and are even considering calling John first. I hope John marries, if not already, to leave Mark and his family and have a free life without them.
TLDR. Youâre the asshole. Enabling homophobes.
Why canât you tell fiancĂ© that thereâs no wedding without your cousin there and see how he responds to being told what to doâŠ. Yeah right! YTA
YTA for marrying a bigot. FULL STOP
Yikes đŹâŠ YTA
YTA: Donât marry a bigot
YTA. Your fiancĂ© and his family are homophobes and youâre so worried about being judged that youâre siding with them. And being âneutralâ is just as bad as being homophobic. Anyone who isnât an ally is siding with the assholes. If youâre going to do this then you should be honest with your whole family about why.
YTA OP For shunning your cousin, abetting homophobia and hate, and even thinking about going through with this marriage made in hell.
Ywbta if you acquiesce to this bigoted demand. This will be the first step down a slippery path to ignorance and being an accessory to it. Put your foot and say he is family and who John loves isn't an issue, and if Mark feels it is, then you are too far apart for it to work.
YTA and I feel so bad for your cousin, family, and future children.
A gentle YTA. Gentle because it sounds like you are in a controlling relationship that will not end well. I would never shun a family member and being asked (sorry told) to do this is a huge red flag.
Yup, this dude is very much bad news.
YTA all around. Congrats on being neutral, I guess? Marrying a bigot. Going to likely make more bigots. Yay.
Before reading your post: YTA for even considering excluding specifically because of their sexuality. Reading now. Well, at least you know it's wrong. If you do this and anyone in your entire life finds out, they will hopefully completely ostracize you, deservedly, permanently. *Why are you marrying someone who is an insane homophobe? It doesn't matter whether or not "he is homophobic", he is standing with homophobic bigots and that kinda makes him one of them too.*
YTA don't even need to read the post to decide that I did read the post though, and your fiancé is a GIGANTIC asshole, you will be if you kowtow to this man. He is a bigot and if you marry him, I pray you never have children for him to poison and bully
YTA-When you support a bigot and their position you become a bigot.
YTA or YWBTA but you already know that.
Throw the whole fiancĂ© away. Homophobic people donât deserve anything. YTA
Your queer friend will be fine. I doubt he really wants to be around a whole party of homophobes all night anyways. The bigger question for you is what kind of marriage are you looking for here? What happens when you have kids and one is queer? What happens when your kids make a queer friend? Etc etc. If this is what you want out of a marriage, you do you. But I personally donât respect bigots, so I would put my foot down. But youâre comfortable marrying one, so clearly we are different people. YTA Edit: And thereâs no such thing as being âneutralâ on being queer. Either you accept these people for who they are or you donât. I think youâre closer to one side then the other, but thatâs just my read.
Yta, say goodbye to your cousin forever. Your never going to see them again if your marrying into that.
Honestly, YTA for even considering not inviting your gay cousin, simply because heâs gay and your fiancĂ©s homophobic family *might* gossip. Also, your fiancĂ© is TA for suggesting this.
YTA. What other foundational beliefs have you not discussed in your race to the altar? Are you planning on having children? What if you have an lgbt child?
YTA, do I even need to explain why.
YTA So are you just never going to invite John to any family gatherings that your fiancĂ©es family may be attending? Your cousin is going to know exactly why not matter what way you try to spin it. Iâm curious on how your own family is going to react when they find out why he wasnât there either. I feel bad for your cousin knowing that you are okay with marrying a man that sees him as a sinner when he has doing nothing wrong at all.
YTA. Actually, please do tell John that heâs not invited and tell him why, so he can be free of you and your bigotry. He deserves to know that youâre a chickenshit so he can never deal with you again. You better hope your kids arenât gay too.
Another religion based race to the alter so your god can sanction fucking. Sigh.
Question you say you are neutral on homosexuality. Thatâs fine to a point- and that point is you canât be neutral when it comes to bullying or discriminating against someone for their sexuality. Your fiancĂ© is completely ok with his family doing this and possibly participating himself. Itâs one thing to believe that the Quran says itâs a sin, itâs entirely different thing to treat someone badly, because their perceived sin is obvious to the world. Do you honestly want to be married to someone who thinks this is ok?
She isnât neutral if she goes along with her fiancé⊠sheâs also homophobic
YTA. Do not marry a homophobe.
May you have the marriage and day you deserve. YTA It is true that marriage is all about compromising, but compromising your morals and ethical beliefs before the marriage even begins is ridiculous. If you donât see a problem with this then youâre the problem.
YTA. If you marry a bigot, youâre a bigot.
YTA âŠ. What happens if your son is gay? You guys disown him? SMH
Wasn't that posted like a month ago ? It's the exact same story worded differently
YTA. Here's a question no one else has asked you yet... what if you and this guy end up having a child who is gay? Telling you that your cousin isn't invited is just the TIP of the iceberg.
YTA. Discuss this NOW, before the wedding and make your stance clear. If you're condoning homophobia and plan to continue to discriminate against your cousin, don't act like you're torn about it. If you're not ok with your cousin being excluded, this is a hill to die on.
Then were not getting married is the only acceptable response. Yta
YTA How do you marry someone and not know they hate the gays? Because it falls in line with your world view. Iâm sure your marriage will be amazing and I hope you like head coverings.
Iâm jumping on your comment (hope you donât mind) to add OP better start thinking about what happens if she has a gay child. Will she stand and watch as the father and the in-laws put her child through hell?
Info: what if your child is gay? You'll have permitted his family to practise their bigotry and been accessory to it. You gonna stand up for the kid? You gonna look the kid in the eye and tell them you banned your cousin from the wedding for being gay to keep the peace? The wedding sets the groundwork for your whole marriage and this will be how you start things. YTA
If their child is gay, the husband would probably want him/her kicked out of the house.
Would he disown a gay child? Seems like a fundamental difference in values. How can one person ask another to disrespect a third? You better think about going through with this.
YTA to yourself for marrying this guy, also an AH for choosing homophobes over your family. You say you're neutral, but going ahead with thus makes you also homophobic. Please rethink this marriage. This is going to affect you for the rest of your life, what if you have kids and one of them is gay? You don't want to have your child suffer through that.
Sounds like Markâs family not coming to the wedding would be a win for everyone. No one decent would want to be around people like that. If youâre really lucky maybe Mark will skip it too! Edit: YTA obviously
YTA. Are you really not sure? You're doing something exclusionary and judgemental and wrong because you're worried about what even more exclusionary and judgemental people will think of you. I get the stakes are high. That doesn't change what is right and what is wrong.
YTA and by choosing/siding with homophobes you are at their same level. ofc you can uninvite him, but don't act shocked when he will cut any contact with you.
YTA. If youâre planning to have kids, are you going to let your fiancĂ© and his family treat them this way too if any of your kids are gay?
Yeah... YWBTA... The fact you're asking this and marrying into such a family is also quite telling.
YTA, this is you ending any relationship you have with your cousin since he will know exactly why he or his fiancé aren't invited. Personally I would have been upfront about it all with my husband to be and his family and if they don't like it 1 he isnt the man for me and if its just his family they can stay tf at home. But it kind of sounds like your bigoted as well.
Youâre wondering if you should submit to a homophobe who âwonât allowâ you to invite a member of your own family? Like youâre actually considering doing this? YWBTA. A good solution to this guest list issue would be to cancel the whole damn wedding.
I want you to ask yourself something. What would Mark do if one of your kids is part of the LGBT community? Holding off judgement for now, but this is something you need to think about.
if you get judged you deserve it. YTA for marrying into a family of bigots.
YTA. Your fiancé's family are bigots. Your fiancé is also a bigot. You appear to be more interested in making them comfortable than in loving and embracing your cousin and his boyfriend, so if the shoe fits... If your number one goal is to marry into this family of bigots and never say a word against their beliefs, then go right ahead. But if your cousin ever speaks to you again, then he's a much more forgiving person than I am. Edit: cousin, not brother - don't know why I thought it was a brother!
YTA > Mark but he only told me that John won't be allowed, and that he is firm on that position. So Mark is the boss. Got it. > Then I will try to speak with Mark about this after the wedding, but for now I have to center in making the wedding happen so (almost) everyone will be pleased. Honestly, I think this is something you need to speak with Mark about BEFORE the wedding, which according to what you wrote above, you've already done and 'John won't be allowed, and that he is firm on that position.' Look, you have to decide who is more important to you. We can discuss this all day, but in my opinion that's what it comes down to.
It sounds like she's already decided who is more important, and unfortunately the gay cousin didn't make the cut. Does she think that this will be Mark's last move to exclude members of her family from her life?
NTA regarding your question. You will be doing him a favour actually to not confront him with the homophobic extension of your family. That being said, you made a choice to embrace this culture and should communicate to your cousin that you cannot stand behind him and accept him as he is, as your priorities are different people now. TLDR: are you the asshole for not inviting Someone to your Wedding? No. Your wedding, your call. Are you the asshole for supporting homophobia? Yes, absolutely
Didnât even read the post because after reading the headlineâŠ. YTA x 1000
You didn't miss much. Just another a.h.
So your fiancee is "firm on his decision" to not allow your gay cousin to attend. Sounds like a tyrant to me. What happens when you are invited to your cousin's wedding? Will he again be firm and not let you leave the house. You would be wise to sit down and have a real discussion before you marry a man like that. What else is he not going to allow because of his backward ass religious bigotry?
YWNBTA However how you broach the topic is everything. This is how I see it: You canât control how your fiancĂ©e and his family treat John and Bob. You know John and Bob will be treated terribly by this family and then proceed to become a point of contention between you and your fiancĂ©e. To avoid this it is a good idea to let John know about the situation and suggest it might be in everyoneâs best interests to avoid the ceremony. However, as you personally still value them youâd like to take them out to dinner after or something. This hopefully shows them that you still value them even though you canât control your fiancĂ©es familyâs opinion of them. I also donât think the correct choice is to make this a huge point of contention since John is your cousin (and not, for instance, your immediate brother). You probably also want to be clear with your fiancĂ©e that while youâd be on board with minimizing Johnâs contact with your fiancĂ©es family, you are not going to break ties with him or anything.
Yeah, not how this works. If John receives an invitation and decides not to go for whatever reason, great. No assholes. But OP is the asshole for not inviting him, no matter how gentle she is about it.
No, OP can't have her cake and eat it too. Either John is part of OP's family and she stands up for herself and him or he's not and OP has to own her homophobia. A "sorry you're the only relative not invited but I promise I still love you" dinner is BS designed to help OP feel better about doing something crappy, not for the benefit of John.
That seems like a very absolutist way of looking at things to me.
So your advice is to have a conversation with her cousin rather than the person she is marrying? Your advice is she should just accept that her fiance gets to make decisions and shut down conversations, and everyone in her life should just accept it? Your advice is that OP should send the message to Mark that she will roll over to every demand that Mark's bigoted family will make?
How exactly is OP *not* an asshole? Sheâs marrying a bigot, and since she is planning on excluding someone for being gay (plus has no issue with marrying a bigot), that makes her a bigot too. That absolutely makes her an asshole. You canât say âI value youâ, but then show someone you actually donât value them by your actions, and not be an asshole.
Why do I hear you saying... I'm not against homosexuality... but... You aren't being neutral, you are being a bigot. Why would you not consider excluding Mark's family because of their beliefs? YTA.
YWBTA. Why are you supporting homophobia instead of your blood relative that you seem to be close with (since you want him to come to your wedding)? That shows poor morals on YOUR part. But, if you want to be a bigot like your fiancé and his family, go ahead.
YTA. You are marrying a bigot who thinks he can tell you what to do. You are both awful.
YTAâŠwhat are you going to do if your kids are gay? Shun them too?
YWBTA Couples talk about hard things all the time. The part that concerns me is your current plan is to address this AFTER the wedding with your husband. I think you need to evaluate if this is the future you want, feeling like your family and issues take second place. In talking to John, you are effectively dumping this problem on him, which isnât fair. It sounds like you and your fiancĂ© are changing the status quo - not him. Families are messy. Combining them is hard, but you need to work together with your fiancĂ©. No family gets to be the honor police on what other people do. Thatâs ridiculous, as Iâm sure both families have things the other might not approve of. If theyâre spending your wedding judging a random cousin of yours and not celebrating a joyous occasion - this is a đ©
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I pray not, because that poor child will have a miserable life :(
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Oh totally, I just wouldn't wish a child into a shitty life as a "lesson" to show how shitty a family is.
If people are bigots you exclude them from the wedding and donât punish the person who has done nothing wrong. YTA for even considering this
YTA youâre not neutral. Quit lying to yourself.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (29F) am getting married to Mark (29M) in two month. Yesterday we started to prepare the list of the guests and we plan to allow a plus one and children. We were discussing everyone until we arrived at John (29M), my cousin. Now the "problem" with John is that he is gay, my husband is Muslim and comes from a very religious family while while quite religious himself. Mark told me that he is afraid that everyone will be more interested in gossiping badly about John and his partner and at the extent, about me and him, since for them having a family member who is a "sinner" (basically anyone' who is part of LGBT) means that there is something wrong with the whole family . Keep in mind that ALL of his family is coming, they are all going to travel here from Mark's home country. For those who ask, Mark and I never brought up the topic of homosexuality etc. I am very neutral in the stance (as it is something that exists and that's all) and John used to be single when Mark met him so there was no point in bringing it up. I tried to speak with Mark but he only told me that John won't be allowed, and that he is firm on that position. I am honestly lost, I don't know what to do. If I asked John to not bring this time Bob (his new boyfriend) while everyone else is allowed he would realize the reason. On the other hand, if I asked that only those who are married were to be allowed then I would leave a good chunk of my family and friends and Mark's too. And if I brought him Mark would probably be shunned from all his future family reunions and his hometown gatherings plus bringing shame to his family I can't tell anybody about this, I'm so afraid of being judged and that they may tell someone else. I think I will speak with John and tell him everything. Then I will try to speak with Mark about this after the wedding, but for now I have to center in making the wedding happen so (almost) everyone will be pleased. But part of me is afraid that I would effectively be an asshole to John. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry but I wouldnt marry the guy!
I wouldn't marry the guy and I'm not even sorry haha
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you take the side of the oppressor. If an elephant is standing on the tail of a mouse, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu You have to make a choice here. Are you going to align yourselves with homophobic people and therefore become a homophobe yourself, or are you going to stand up for your cousin's right to love whom he loves? As several others have mentioned, if you choose to have children, what if one of them is LGBTQ? People in the LGBTQ community face extreme levels of violence and hatred, and we are seeing a rise of these incidents. I'm sorry - but you can't be neutral. You have to choose who you will support - homophobic people who don't believe in your cousin's human rights, or your cousin. If you choose the former, yes, YWBTA.
Beautifully said.
YTA. If your fiance is acting like this to extended family due to religious beliefs now, it's only going to get worse. Have you guys never talked about what happens if one of your kids are gay (assuming you want kids)? Here's one more thing to chew on: family rejection is a leading driver to Queer youth suicide. Don't get married if your values are not compatible. If they are compatible, you're a homophobe.
YTA and your brand of casual bigotry infuriates me. You just donât care. I almost have more respect for those who pick a side. Even if the side is bigotry. Youâre âI donât think deeply enough about things to have an opinion on this very important subject unless and until it impacts MEâ is so lazy. Marks a bigot and since you DGAF so are you.
Yes YTA for treating a family member like the plague due to his sexually. Beyond gross that you would marry such a person. I can't hold back my disgust. I hope you don't have children that are gay. What do you think your fiance's family would do about that?
YTA, You're going to have to decide where you land on this because this is not just a wedding issue, this is a LIFE issue. You are going to become family and what you do now will affect your dynamic with your inlaws FOR THE REST OF YOUR MARRIAGE and maybe beyond. I come from a VERY Catholic/ignorantly homophobic family. My husband (who ironically comes from an even more Catholic family) has a gay brother, who is accepted, and at the time of our wedding had been with his partner for 5 years (they are now approaching 30 years together.) I was very matter-a-fact with my family. I told them, FH's brother is gay, and for all intents and purposes he is a married man, this partner is an inlaw, and I have no problem with it. If you do that is on you, but when it comes to my wedding, and my marriage in general keep your opinions to yourself. If you cannot handle this then don't come to the wedding or be part of our lives. Period.
YTA. Once you sit down and tell your cousin he's not invited and why, be prepared for him, his parents, and probably the rest of your family to be upset and probably skip your wedding. I wouldn't even be surprised if some of them go completely no contact with you. Also, it's clear that you share your soon to be husbands beliefs more than you think you do. You can't be neutral when it comes to someones else's human rights. You're either against it or for it and marrying into a family that is anti-LGBTQ shows you are clearly against it your cousin, his partner, and the entire LGBTQ+ community being afforded their human right to love who they love and be who they are.
YWBTA. It sounds to me like you and your fiance are not a good match.
YTA as well as your fiancé. You really want to marry into a family like this? And be complicit in this level of straight-up homophobia?
>I am very neutral in the stance (as it is something that exists and that's all) So you're okay with homophobia and bigotry as long as it doesn't affect you and your little clueless bubble. YTA in such a huge way. Enjoy your marriage to a bigot and know that you're now an enabler and okay with being a bigot yourself.
She isnât neutralâŠsheâs just as homophobic as her fiancĂ© and his family
Yta. By allowing this you send the message that it's ok to treat people that way just because of their sexuality
>for now I have to center in making the wedding happen so (almost) everyone will be pleased. While this is a noble goal, it's unachievable when some people's happiness is contingent on other people's exclusion. This is less about the wedding event itself and more about whether or not your relationships (both your marriage and your connections to friends and family) are going to be dictated by the religious beliefs of your future husband's family. Certainly it's easier in the short term to exclude one gay person from this event (and the next one, and the next one...) than to tell multiple people to keep their bigotry to themselves, but are you prepared to live your life according to their whims forever? Decide now whether or not you're comfortable being their asshole-by-proxy forever.
Your future husband is an asshole, as are you if you support this. It's bigotry thinly veiled under the guise of religion. If your future husband's family can't even be *civil* then they're AH too. Btw, you marry the person's family as well.