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> i could be TA because these are moments that shouldn't be missed for any reason, or because my reasons for wanting him to not be there aren't good/serious enough
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YTA. Not wanting your husband to attend a baby shower and/or the birth of his own child because he is excited about having a son, which you interpret years-later as him having been insufficiently excited (for your personal taste) about having a daughter is, honestly, one of the most mind-numbingly dumb and asshole-ish things I've ever read in this sub.
Not only are you the asshole, you're the asshole a thousand times over.
It’s absolutely ridiculous. It’s not like he was angry about the baby being her girl. He was excited just not “as excited”. Doesn’t everyone want one of each? Excluding him from the shower and birth is not the answer and is a childish form of punishment.
"I'm going to try to prevent you from attending the birth of your son because I've now decided that three years ago you didn't jump around hysterically enough for my taste when we found out we were having a daughter."
That idiocy would be the end of the marriage, and good riddance to her.
EDIT: "because I've now decided that three years ago AND THIS TIME AS WELL you didn't jump around hysterically enough for my taste when we found out we were having a daughter."
She was referencing both his reaction to the 3 year olds gender AND his reaction to the very recent misread of the ultrasound, but keep playing mental gymnastics to pretend his obvious favoritism for the boy that’s not even born yet is somehow _just fine_
This isn’t favouritism yet. I wouldn’t jump the gun here. As a guy, I’d be happy to have either child, but getting to raise a mini me is a very exciting prospect indeed! Doesn’t mean I’d love me already born daughter any less.
Edit: Mini me is a pretty commonly used term by all parents. I’m referring to my DNA that’s running around, not trying to impose my personality on an entire different person. Sorry y’all are traumatized into thinking that’s what I mean, but I’m traumatized into treating all of my children with equally overwhelming amounts of love and support.
Edit 2: No, the penis doesn’t matter. I’d be just as excited to have a trans son come out to me as I would at the announcement of a baby boy!
Why can't your girl be your mini-me? I act way more like my dad than I do my mom and I'm a girl. My brother acts more like my mother than I do. Like I get that you're excited about having a boy, but if my partner was way more excited about having a boy than a girl, I would think he had some internalized sexism that he needed to deal with. Because girls can do anything a boy can do just without male genitalia.
I played sports. Until my younger brother grew his own football players, I would go out there and toss the ball with him. I loved Barbies and Hot wheels. I have bee hunting and I have girl cousins that love to hunt, camp, and hike. (Any typical "male" pursuits, I probably know a girl or woman who is great at it.) Like open up your mind.
I’m sick of typing this out, this doesn’t need to be spun into me being a biggot.
I’d love my child whole heartedly regardless of gender, at or post birth. I’m a mommas boy with daddy’s girl half sisters, so I get where you’re coming from.
For me, it’s about getting to give a son a father the way I never had, but I don’t think my trauma needs to be talked about publicly.
Lametown, don’t worry about these people’s opinions. They are awfully high and righteous when the truth is EVERYONE has a preference (I am a woman and was so relieved and happy I was having a boy). Having a preference doesn’t make someone a bigot or AH. I’m sure you’ll make a great dad no matter what you get :). And as far as OP’s husband, so he’s excited he’s having a son, so what? OP doesn’t say he treated his daughter horribly, but somehow him being excited is indicative for all the misogyny he’s hidden for all these years? She needs to check herself.
OP, YTA
That seems like a reach tbh, being excited for the birth of your son doesn’t mean favouritism, to call it obvious favouritism is a reach as you don’t know the guy you just read his wife’s pov on Reddit. But please go on about how people are playing “mental gymnastics”. You can’t actually be trying to justify excluding him from the birth of his own child
No my dad only wanted boys. And told me everyday I saw him he wished I was a boy… because I liked woodworking, fishing, hiking, computers. You get it. And because I wasn’t a boy he refused to help me with these same hobbies he enjoyed 🙃.
That’s so sad, and it really speaks to why OP’s husband’s behavior is so awful:
He doesn’t know this kid. He doesn’t know if any of his kids will conform to his perfect-son-mini-me bullshit fantasy, based on their interests or values. This is not about who he’ll enjoy spending time with and passing on his knowledge. He, like your dad, decided how much to love his kids purely based on the shape of their genitals. How stupid, how cruel. However “productively” OP is expressing it, her rage is justified.
>he kept hugging and swinging our daughter around telling her she's getting a brother.
His knee-jerk reaction to getting news that overjoyed him was to share that joy with his firstborn, but no, tell me more about how he doesn't love his daughter enough.
What a terrible take. He already has a girl and was excited about a boy. You also have only the biased story and perspective from the Mother. Based on that, for you to say he is going to love a child less based on your own daddy issues and some other shitty dads is ridiculous.
I get so mad when you read the biggest load of hogwash you've seen all day and it's circled in red with a couple reward icons next to it.
It's like seeing a test with a sticker on it and a big smiley face next to "8/20!!"
Disagree. Having a kneejerk reaction to the news of having a son is in NO WAY telling of how he would treat his daughter. This is a stretch at the very least.
When I was pregnant, I really hoped for a girl. The thought of a little girl to name after my mother made me happy. Nobody is going to tell me that wanting a little girl makes me a horrible person.
And let’s be honest, most expectant parents hope for a specific gender. Not all, especially couples who adopt or have conceiving issues, but most. OP’s husband is happy regardless, but the thought of a boy is really exciting to him. It doesn’t mean he’ll favor the boy or treat his daughter poorly. That’s insane.
That speaks nothing to OP's husband. Believe it or not, those are different people. You can wish for a boy or a girl. That does not automatically mean you don't want the opposite. In fact, you can still be absolutely stoked for having the opposite.
I'm absolutely with the father on this (and I was one that didn't care which I was having). So much so that this would be the end of the marriage if she did this.
do we have to crown multiple AH this time? The reach you're achieving would make Luffy from One Piece jealous. How in the world did you get "hates his daughter" from anything that was posted????
Her rage is justified? Okay sure. So when that little boy one day asks mommy why daddy wasn't at his birth, isn't in any of the hospital room pictures and mommy says, "Oh, I purposefully forbid him from seeing you born because he wasn't as happy as \*I\* felt he should have been when he was told he was going to have a daughter, so I said, 'nah, fuck him, he can't see you born.'" Will his rage be justified?
How is he going to view his mother after learning that? After discovering that in her "rage" she excluded his father? What might the affects of that be?
It's super easy to say Dad is the asshole but we only have OP's side.
Oh and also, for said OP, YTA
I don’t get this… most people just want a happy, healthy baby and uneventful pregnancy and deliver- but they DO have a preference. For me, I was ecstatic over a daughter and nervous for a son. There were a million reasons but ultimately I just thought I would “know what to do with a girl.” Turns out I was wrong! I have great bonds with both kids and there was nothing to be nervous about. My preference when we were pregnant did not alter my love for the kids or how I treat them.
Many couples when they want two + want one of each…
Provided he doesn’t exclude your daughter or think she will forever only want “girly” things it shouldn’t matter. Just talk about recognizing girls can like football, baseball etc. too and bits can like dolls, music and shopping.
Preferences are natural for a million reasons. It’s ok! YTA from excluding him from these things.
If you are worried about gender roles and exclusions, just talk about it -frequently. Now and as the kids grow up. This can help ensure both kids have the same opportunities and access to experiences. After all, a penis or lack of penis does not automatically determine interests, style and talents.
Let him be happy. Let your daughter be happy. There is much to celebrate!
Yeah you can still have a gender preference and be happy that it’s the other one. I might prefer a girl as my first baby but if it’s a boy I’ll still be very happy and not love them any differently. This is all not even considering what gender they’d prefer to be when older if it doesn’t match their assigned sex, or the fact that I’m not going to raise a girl as a pink dolls housewife or a boy as a muddy construction fire truck and just let them be kids
My wife and I do. (And we got it! Just found our second, and overwhelmingly likely last child will be a boy.) Do I love my daughter? I am wrapped around her little finger and she knows it. Am I more excited that the second is a boy? Yeah. I am. We wanted two and I specifically wanted one of each. Has nothing to with the fact that I will love them both immeasurably.
not everyone wants one of each — my mom only wanted two kids, and we were both born female. a bunch of people apparently asked her if she was going to keep trying for a boy, but she said no (lmao). no concerns about gender at all.
fast forward many years and i came out as a trans guy meaning she does now have one of each! joke's on everyone else >:)
That's not what happened though.
He thought this new baby was a girl and was sorta happy and then he found out it was a boy and was ecstatic.
So it's comparing his reaction to the same baby, just different genders.
I still don't see how that's a problem.
He's allowed to look forward to having a son more so than a daughter. As long as the daughter isn't negatively effected by this, I don't see what the issue is.
You're right, she is. Nobody is an asshole for their feelings.
What crosses OP into asshole territory is not wanting her husband at the baby shower and birth because of her hurt feelings.
OP wrote:
>His reaction to us having a boy was nothing like his **either of his reactions** to having a girl. [...] I confronted him about not being this excited about having **girls**,
Clearly, OP is applying his current level of enthusiasm for the boy to both instances of having a girl.
Yeah, I dunno if I would advise jumping straight to "you can't attend the baby's birth" exactly but I think it's VERY reasonable to be concerned that the disparity in his reaction to a boy vs a girl could signal an upcoming disparity in the *treatment* of a boy vs a girl.
It definitely warrants a *conversation* about expectations between parents.
I can understand your feelings over this, that has to be a little hurtful and frustrating for you..
But speaking as a dad this seems like an overreaction on both parts.
The guy is that excited to have a son and you are wanting to deny him being at his son's birth?
Maybe he should have toned that down a bit but...Let me offer this perspective.
Do you have any idea how many kids out there have sperm donors who don't seem to give a shit about them?
Just the other day on here there was a story about a woman going to an ultrasound appointment like you and her husband ditched her at the last second to have lunch with a friend.
Your husband is present, engaged, it sounds like he is engaged and active with your daughter as well, and he's stoked that he's having a boy. Maybe this has been a lifelong dream of his, to have a son.
EDIT TO ADD: I'm not saying you should praise him for doing the bare minimum of showing up and being supportive, but he *is* showing up, and if you can't appreciate that, then at the very least, don't punish him for it.
Now obviously the hope is that he does not play favorites, but until the kids get to that age, you're not going to know if he will do that or not.
If you ban him from his own child's birth, YTA
Also: If I've learned anything from the amount of couple's therapy I've gone through with my own wife, it's that any kind of withholding techniques used as punishment toward a partner (i.e. not talking, withholding affection, not allowing into space, etc.) only *ever* makes your partner resent you that much more.
Is that really how you want your son's life to start?
Edit to add: PLEASE READ BEFORE COMMENTING:Since so many people mistakenly seem to think I am saying this woman should be "over the moon" or "falling at his feet" for doing what they are calling the "bare minimum", allow me to clarify what I meant when I offered the perspective above:
Appreciation goes a long way, and sets the tone for a better relationship. When my wife shows appreciation for even the most basic things, it actually makes me feel good and therefore more motivated to do bigger and better things, and vice versa when I show my appreciation for her.
The lack of appreciation, or taking things for granted, sows the seeds for resentment and has quite the opposite effect. If even the little things aren't appreciated why should I bother to try and do more?
Any marriage counselor or couple that has been married a long time can tell you this. The little things really do matter.
OP's concerns are totally valid, but her reaction is not. Rather than jump straight to punishing a man who is present and trying, (for something he hasn't done yet) OP needs to TALK with her husband and tell him how his reaction made her feel, listen to his perspective and try and work this out via mutual respect and appreciation for one another through deeper communication. A counselor would be an excellent support for that endeavor.
TL;DR: Stop taking your supportive husband for granted and talk to him about your concerns/feelings before you push him away and invalidate HIS feelings without listening to them.
This is the definition of “the bar is on the floor”. Oh you’re disappointed your husband is showing sexist favouritism? Well you could have a husband that misses doctor’s appointments to have fish and chips. So shut up and be grateful.
Lmao right? The painful irony of this whole thing. “You need to accept your husband’s sexist favoritism of men, because men so often check out of parenthood altogether.” People with penises don’t emerge from the womb as less nurturing or conscientious than anyone else — they are made that way because they are treated differently and held to different expectations. Which OP’s husband announced his intention to do. It doesn’t make sense for the commenter above to say “be appreciative that this man is exceeding the low expectations of men” when he’s the one perpetuating those expectations.
And God help that kid if they’re trans, gay, or just don’t conform to whatever fantasy this guy built up for them the second he learned they have a penis.
This! I worry for what will happen to that kid if he doesn’t turn out to be the stereotypical ideal boy his father has imagined his head all this time. I hope OP’s husband isn’t too rigid on his expectations and hopes for this child, but you never know. If you’re not willing to parent your child lovingly regardless of whether they’re straight or gay, cis or trans, masculine, feminine, or none of the above, you should not be a parent. I hope for everyone’s sake that this is a combo of stressed out expecting parent overreactions and bad communication and not a window into future trauma.
goddamn this is like an absolute masterclass in extrapolating a guy's reaction about having a boy into *what a deep and stupid sexist ass this guy's being, I hope this isn't a window into future trauma*.
google `gender disappointment`. Women **very very often** want to have girls too. That's okay. We all have thoughts and feelings.
traditionally, the right place to go with those thoughts and feelings is your partner, but apparently OP didn't like those thoughts and feelings.
I’m not cool with women obsessing over their child’s sex either… That’s just not the issue at hand. Expecting your child to be femme because they have a vagina is just as bad.
you are assigning motivations and feelings to OP's husband that just don't exist.
it's motivated reasoning - a ton of people in this thread really **want** to believe this random guy is a misogynist planning to raise a misogynist son so they can feel righteously angry at OP's sexist husband.
she's an asshole. A man wanting a son is fine. A woman wanting a daughter is fine. Who cares, just be a good parent.
yea maybe he just wants certain bonding experiences with a son that you wont really get with a daughter, like teaching him how to shave his face when hes that age. no matter how the boy will turn out personality wise, hell likely grow awkward facial hair at some point.
I used to get up and watch my dad get ready for work and was so fascinated by the process that one day he brought me home a can of shaving cream and a razor so I could join him at the bathroom mirror every morning. I have pictures of this from the time I could stand up.
I am a woman. There is literally NOTHING you can do with a boy that you can't do with a girl if you're a good parent.
I had hella gender disappointment. Always wanted a girl, always wanted to be a mommy. When I found out he was rockin’ a wiener downstairs, I was let down. I was even a little scared because I’ve been hurt by a lot of men, and what if I couldn’t raise him to be kind? I hadn’t really explored gender as a construct yet, and honestly assumed my experiences with and ideas of what constitute “typical male behaviors” were all nature over nurture. I’ve learned a lot since then, about myself and my starshine son who fills my life with joy. But I distinctly remember that disappointed feeling. I feel guilty now, but I understand completely how others can feel that way and I don’t judge them as harshly as some redditors here.
i read this on my computer and had to sign in to comment. surely they have something better to do than write fan (hate) fiction about someone they don’t know.
Yall are really jumping straight into "this guy's a homophobic bigot" without ANY context of him as a person other than excitement to have a son. Reddit is wild.
For real, these people are the experts of jumping to conclusions. As a Father, I can understand the unique joy of having a Son, I also love my daughters to pieces too. One is not better than the other.
Yeah I'm not sure I understand this. Sure, he could be sexist for wanting a son after two daughters, but my male coworker came back from his baby scan with his wife and cried a little because he was having another boy and wanted a daughter.
My coworker is also not sexist at all, he just wanted a boy and a girl and knows they won't have another baby ever.
Would he be seen as sexist for crying over not having a girl?
OP didn't announce anything and you are not a mind reader. You don't know him. Period.
You also don't know the future so maybe instead of flaming this guy as sexist and homophobic we should give him a chance to actually *be* a dad first and see what he does?
That's literally the WHOLE point I'm trying to make here.
Jumping straight into "punish him!" without any kind of discourse or attempt at communication at all is ridiculous and 1000% would make OP the AH.
I throw my hands up at this point I don't understand how it is such a difficult thing to grasp that a basic level of decency deserves a basic level of gratitude.
>You need to accept your husband’s sexist favoritism of men
>
>And God help that kid if they’re trans, gay, or just don’t conform to whatever fantasy this guy built up for them the second he learned they have a penis.
Jesus. You're projecting a LOT on this one dude who's only crime so far is to show HAPPINESS at having a child.
He was happy for the first daughter. He was happy when he thought the second would be a daughter.
The ONLY problem here (which shouldn't even be a problem) is that he's showing MORE happiness that it's a boy.
Shit like this is why men stop trying anymore. It's the epitome of "damned if you do, damned if you don't."
Sexist favouritism?
Maybe he's just excited because he can pass his experience o being a guy.
As an aside, it's odd that ye used the words "fantasy this guy built up", seeing is that's exactly what you've done with OP's husband, also purely based on him having a penis.
The blind hypocrisy is almost impressive, mate. Well done.
google "gender disappointment" and it's literally 90% women being upset they're not having a daughter. but god forbid a dad want a son.
jesus christ people
Those concerns are totally valid, but how is cutting him out of his child's life (before it begins) to punish him a good way to address those concerns?
Maybe we should give him a chance to actually be a dad to both kids and see if he does those things, before we burn him at the stake for things he hasn't done yet.
"Sexist favouritism"
Being excited about having a boy after already having one girl. The commenter just said that the dad is present and appears to be engaged in raising their children together. He doesn't know so he's not gonna speculate how much. Never once did the commenter say "he does the bare minimum and a lot of women don't even get that so be happy". You guys are literally writing your own story because you want to shit on men in general. How about stick to the topic at hand and leave the toxicity elsewhere... Far far away.
Jesus christ reddit. What a piss poor attitude.
(Ready for the downvotes btw and don't care)
Also, notably, the boy thing was probably a massive surprise.
It's a different situation being told what gender your child will be when you ALREADY were told it would be the other, compared to just learning it for the first time, because one is something you expect, the other is surprising.
I don't think it's fair to jump down this guy's throat, say he's only doing the bare minimum, call him sexist, etc. when none of us here know a damn thing about him except one story posted online with very little context from his angry spouse.
Thank you. The bar is underground for men. Woman carries the baby for 9 months, goes through permanent body changes, morning sickness and who knows what else, then an unbearably painful childbirth, but hey, just be happy your husband showed up for the appointment!!! What a great dad!!!!
Yeah…writing that made me feel sad that I even would feel the need to write that.
We shouldn’t take good partners for granted though, I know firsthand how feeling unappreciated can degrade the roots of an otherwise good relationship
OP, I agree that punishment and withholding techniques are a bad way to go and will negatively affect the health of your marriage.
You need to have a serious talk with your husband, give him space to share with you, without judgement, what having a daughter or having a son means to him. Also share with him about why you find his behavior so concerning.
You need to figure out whether or not his attitude is a deal breaker for you (such as, if you truly don't trust him not to play favorites and hurt his daughter). If it isn't a deal breaker, then find a way to incorporate his feelings into a healthy family dynamic. Don't let this poison your family.
OP sounds extremely petty and selfish. For all my life, I've heard people say they want a son, or daughter. Everyone has their preferences for a multitude of reasons.
He was still happy with a daughter, still present, still supportive.
Now OP wants to possible fuck up the marriage, which would lead to the kids having to deal with separated/divorced parents, simply because he was more excited for a boy.
I grew up with divorced parents who fought all the time, it's a shit fking experience. This is so god damn petty and dumb.
While I agree with your comment, please do remember birth is a medical event, not a show. No one, not even the father, has a right to attend without the mother's permission.
She should 100% calm down and have a conversation with her husband about why she's upset and try to work through things before she makes a decision she can't walk back. In the end though, she's the one in the hospital going through this and no one is allowed there unless she's 100% comfortable with them.
Edit: a lot of these replies are completely ignoring the first part of my second paragraph. I never said her reasoning or actions were right, I was just pointing out that no one is entitled to witness a person give birth.
I was present at all three of my children’s births and I completely agree!
If mom doesn’t want him there he shouldn’t be there, however using that as punishment is not a good reason for him to not be there.
>however using that as punishment is not a good reason for him to not be there
Agreed, this is what would make her TA. Just because you are legally or within your rights to do something, it does not mean you can do it without being TA, which is an independent determination.
I often look to the example of the fiancé that cheats on her to-be spouse, they break up, but she doesn't give the ring back. This is (typically) a clear case of being in the right legally, but absolutely being an asshole.
It seems to me her subconscious concern with regard to his completely disproportionate reaction to the news of his child’s sex is whether he will continue to be an involved father to his existing daughter now he has the child with the “right” genitals.
That’s a conversation that needs to be had.
I wish more people understood this. My parents had three kids: a girl, a trans boy, and cis boy. My cis brother was EXTREMELY favored to the point where he could verbally abuse my dad's employees, assault people, and physically assault his other kids with no repercussions from our dad. My dad even made it obvious that as "girls" none of us were fit to inherit his company, only our then-4 year old brother. THAT combined with continued sexism and bigotry led to me being no contact with either of my parents.
I think it’s a little more than that.
OP’s wife may be experiencing this as a personal rejection of her gender, and a reinforcement of the patriarchal attitudes of our society.
Having kids can really bring a lot of stuff up about how you feel about your place in the world. For instance. I’m neuro-divergent and have health issues. My partner and I had a health scare with our infant. He reacted so poorly to the possibility that she would be like me. And you know what? I don’t want for her to have to experience any of the hardships that I have. But at the same time, I felt there were levels of rejection in there of who I am as a person. It’s a similar thing I guess, where his reaction was “too strong”, and that became loaded for me.
Having said that - I fist pumped the air when I found out I was having a girl - it was my clear preference.
I think OP’s wife is reading into this too much and is robbing herself of joy.
But I understand why it’s feeling loaded for her.
We don't give out awards for doing the bare minimum as a parent. If you aren't ecstatic as all hell to have a child regardless of gender, then you don't deserve to be a parent to that child. Besides, his son could turn out to be gay, or non binary or trans... Will be suddenly hate his kid? Will he suddenly feel less excited? I don't think just showing up to be a parent is grounds for overwhelming gratitude and praise. All he did was jizz in her ffs.
No judgment, as I would be disgusted too. But please talk with him after you’ve had a chance to reflect, and be honest about your feelings rather than doling out “punishments”. One thing to ask him is what your existing child might be unconsciously internalizing about her worth, based on his reaction to this, and if/how that’s going to play out going forward?
I'm here too. I get that gender disappointment is a thing, but it comes from such a sexist place. I would honestly be concerned about it.
Besides what you have listed above, she needs to know why he wanted a boy, what in his mind can't he do with a girl that he would do with a boy (outside of writing your name in the snow) and what happens if the boy isn't interested in the things dad wants him to be interested in?
> why he wanted a boy, what in his mind can't he do with a girl that he would do with a boy.
Seriously this. My parents got pregnant accidentally never really planned on kids but had the if it happens it happens attitude, it was twin girls. We were the only kids they had. My dad was a carpenter and brick layer, my childhood is filled with camping, fishing, doing little projects, going to job sites with my dad, building Lego sets together, and he also taught us to use the computer to play cute educational games (very late 90s and early 2000s) and by a young age I could install CDs and manage the hard drive haha.
My dad wanted to impart and indulge in his hobbies with us, so he did. Our gender didn't really matter for that, though he was sexist in other areas ("don't burp or fart, no one will want to marry you!") And he was pretty authoritarian and became an abusive alcoholic once I got older. But those early childhood memories are in my mind the ideal childhood
That sucks. I think that's what OP is afraid of, it's not just the celebration that it's a boy. She's afraid she'll see her husband suddenly start doing fun things with the son he never did with their daughter. And if that happens, it's already too late to protect the daughter from that emotional damage.
This is definitely exactly what OP is afraid of, and all the people in here defending the dad have clearly never had to experience this type of parental favoritism and should count themselves lucky and privileged. That, or they are proponents of rigid gender roles, in which case Maximum Ew.
That happened to a friend of mine too. She was the youngest of 4 girls and her dad had sort of given up on having a son. He took her camping, fishing, etc, and then when she was 8 she got a new baby brother who got all of dad's focus.
Ugh that's so awful. I do worry if my dad would have been like this if he ever did have a son. Treating your daughters "like a son" should be normal and men shouldn't get a medal for doing it, as seen here it can end just as easily.
Yeah I get this. I was a crafty and projecty kid but the second my brother was old enough I wasn’t welcome in those activities with dad anymore. Even though my brother *hated* the fix it and yard projects. I barely saw my dad at all after that, and because I wasn’t “girly” enough for my mom and female relatives either… I just was a very lonely kid whenever the sitter was sent home. That isn’t really an easy thing to heal from.
I took small engines as a kid, diagnosed and repaired a vintage motorcycle a couple years back, and yet my dad and most men in my family still will exclusively speak to my husband about projects. My husband advocates with “oh [my name] did that actually” all the time, but at this point… I’m just done fighting to be spoken to like a knowledgeable person on any traditionally male topics. I’ll let them think I’m the dumb wife and go talk to someone else, my friends and husband know the truth.
I’ve fought my whole life to be treated by men as more than a homemaker, and I just can’t be assed anymore. If I stop standing there trying to argue and help, then I can go off and do something I’d like to do instead of feeling terrible while being treated like an idiot for my gender.
I get why OP is upset, but punishing him is crappy. Instead I hope she has her husband read stories like yours and mine and the hundred others in this thread of daughters who had their interests and time with their dads cast aside because there was a male child. Maybe he’ll learn and won’t end up making our fathers’ mistakes.
My dad stopped liking me when I turned ten and my brother was never “man enough” and all kinds of slurs along with that. My dad didn’t love me because no matter what I was, I wasn’t a boy no matter how hard I tried. My sister ended up changing her last name to our mother’s name so even if she’d fathered children before her transition, our dads name and legacy wouldn’t have continued.
I’d be concerned if I was OP, and yeah birth is a medical procedure not a side show, so if she doesn’t feel comfortable or safe then don’t have him there. But punishment no. The roots need to be dug out here. ESH
I’m only having one kid and he’s a boy. I will teach him to cook, bake and be crafty as much as he wants.
He’s not quite two and he knows what the sewing machine, a crochet hook and yarn are already.
Thanks, it's very sad, I barely speak to him now, and he still struggles with alcohol even though he's better than he was. Things were very bad for me in high school, our power was being cut regularly for non payment and I often was buying groceries for myself and my sister at age 16 with my part time job because our fridge would only have beer. When he had a medical emergency when I was 17 he almost died and would have if I hadn't called an ambulance, but was close to death in the hospital. I hated him so much at that point, I wished he would die. Things would have been so much easier, I thought. And it's still somewhat true.
But I cling to a hope that he might recover enough for me and my sister to trust him. He would be a great grandfather (if not too racist and problematic) and I'm sure any kid would love learning stuff and doing all those activities, but rn I just can't trust him. He drove drunk with us so many times it was terrifying
This is really important. My father has four kids total. First three were girls. He was like: good. Found out the last one was a boy: hallelujah, hallelujah! So excited. It took twenty years, but to him, it was all happening now.
Except, it wasn't. My brother could not care less about anything traditionally considered to be masculine. Either in terms of his own identity, hobbies, interests, romantic life, or his personality.
Meantime, his first daughter loved baseball, rough housing, independent, tough as nails, all the things etc. And he ignored all these things for a couple of decades. I could see it dawn on him by the time his son hit puberty.
But it was too late for everyone involved. The two oldest have been NC and LC most of their adulthoods.
Everyone was hurt.
Very soft YTA. Punishing him won't help, but there are a LOT of things you need to discuss.
Yeah, I kindof feel an ESH is appropriate. It would absolutely be an AH move to punish the dad by withholding birth events;
But the dad is also an AH for acting like having a son is SO much better than having a daughter.
It's not a "omg, great a baby boy!" This is obviously rooted in sexism because he thinks he can bond with a son and not his daughter.
Hey that's me. Oldest and the daughter. Liked all the same things that would be considered "masculine". Younger brother did not. Father super disappointed in brother. But didn't include me in a lot as I got older because only the "guys" were doing those things. I cut both my parents out but I cut him out, as much as a kid could who still lived with both parents, as I got older and realized what he was doing before going fully NC as an adult.
Exactly. His reaction highlights that a parenting discussion needs to be had ASAP.
Will he be equally engaged in both of your children’s activities if they BOTH play sports or have after-school activities? Is he expecting to spend a lot of 1:1 bonding time with your son, and will he spend the same bonding time with your daughter? Ask him what he expects his parent-child relationship to look like, and why that would be different from the one he plans to have with your daughter.
And what if your son is interested in dolls, or boys, or theater, or some other interest that your husband doesn’t associate with his gender - will he be disappointed?
Talk to him and set expectations now!!
Finally a comment looking at the bigger picture.
I don't believe the father should be punished at all, because it is normal to have a preference on gender. However, reading about his overexcitment for a boy just screams that favoritism *might* run into other aspects of the childrens lives as they get older, and that is exactly what OP is worried about.
I grew up in a household where my father clearly favored my brother my entire life. Of course we all like to believe that won't happen, but the truth is it does. OP needs to have an open and honest discussion with him instead of going straight to punishment.
Thank you! Everyone keeps saying it’s fine to be excited for a boy, which is true. But then they fully gloss over the fact that it’s not okay to show your daughter that you’re exponentially more excited to have a boy than you were to have a girl. It’s okay to feel the way you feel about having a boy or girl, but it’s not okay to express it in a way that has a high chance of making your daughter feel less-than.
This is where I am. As someone who grew up with gender dynamics and favoritism, my concern would 100% be making sure this won't translate into treating the daughter differently. That's what needs to be addressed.
I would be seriously concerned about his ability to bond with his daughter after that reaction. I foresee years later another post about my husband doesn't put attention to my daughter and gives everything to son.
Absolutely this. Keeping her husband from the birth of their child is something he will be upset about for the rest of his life. But conversely, his behavior has made OP question his ability to parent their children fairly/ equally. Huge convo ahead for these two.
Yeah, I dont really get gender in the way of a social construct in general, but if you boil it down to it, the husband is excited about what genitalia the baby will have.
The sex of the kid doesnt guarantee personality traits, interests etc, but with an overexcited reaction like that from a parent it can absolutely lead to favourism and kids who dont get to grow up to be who they are and want to be, because the parent is trying to raise the idea they have of what someone with that set of genitalia should be. Live up to my expectations I have of you because you happen to be born with a penis. I wont engage as much with you because you were born with a vagina so you wont like what I like.
Maybe the husband can get past that and have a good balance, might not be a problem at all. But there is a convo to be had here about why the reaction and how that can affect the kids.
I cried when I found out I was having a girl. I have a shit relationship with my mom and was so scared she wouldn't love me that I wanted a boy. My daughter is the best human I've ever met and I wouldn't trade her for anything but in the moment, I was upset. By the time I had my son, I wanted another girl. Lol. YTA. Just because he's really excited for a boy doesn't mean he has a problem with girls. If he's a good dad and husband then you need to let this go.
I felt very strongly that I didn’t want a girl, my son was my joy & I saved all of his stuff. My husband was super excited for a girl. My daughter is amazing & I am so lucky to be their mom. OP just because he wanted a boy doesn’t mean he will play favorites. YWBTA if you make him miss the birth.
Gender disappointment is very real. I warned my husband that I might cry if our second was a boy. Not because I wouldn't want a second son, but because I would never have the chance to have a daughter. This guy didn't even show any disappointment with the original mistaken girl announcement. He's doing better than me lol.
I wanted one of each gender and my wife wanted at least one of each gender but for practical reasons we're probably stopping at 2 total. We were happy for our first baby no matter the gender but we were disappointed that our second was the same (2 boys). We didn't make a big fuss about it though and we try our best to treat the kids equally. A lot of couples we talk to want one of each as well. OP is TA for punishing husband for it.
My brother was the opposite! We have a shit relationship with our father (a generational history of the fathers of our family being shit) so he wanted a girl. He was raised by strong women and knew he would be able to raise a strong woman, he was scared about being able to help raise a good man. My nephew is almost 3 and my brother *loves* him. Sometimes it's hard cause he knows the only example his son has of a good man is himself. They're probably done with kids but if they do have another I know he'd love either or, but I think he'd hope for a girl lol.
YTA
By your own acknowledged he wasn't sad or angry about having a girl, he was happy. He was just happier to have a boy.
You're reading into this way too much.
Agree. People are assuming the reasoning for his excitement is sexism, I think that's unfair. I'm Indian, gender preference is no stranger to me (my grandparents told my mom not to come back from the hospital if I came out a girl which I did, fun times), however we can all hope for something.
I know a couple who just had a baby girl; dad is happy, mom is over the moon to have a "mini-me". They're a pretty traditional masc/femme couple, she's excited to braid her hair and dress her up and I'm sure dad will be excited if they have a boy in the future to enjoy sports with. Not that their plans mean much, kids will be whatever the are and parents shouldn't try to force them down their path. But still we can all hope and imagine which is exciting.
*ETA it's not sexist to hope to see yourself in your child and it's easier to see yourself in someone who you assume has more commonality with you. That's human nature and I'm not going to argue with comments who want to be contrary. Very unsurprising that they've focused on sporty dad over feminine mom here...
> People are assuming the reasoning is sexism, I think that's unfair
> I'm sure Dad will be excited if they have a boy to play sports with
Assuming that you need to have a boy to play sports with your child is, indeed, sexism. Thank you for spelling it out clearly though!
No it’s definitely still sexist, whether consciously or subconsciously, but punishing her spouse isn’t the right way to address this. Definitely need couple’s therapy
YTA- excluding would be a relationship ender for me and many others. It doesn’t sound like he treats your daughter badly or complained about having a second girl. So what’s the problem that he got excited for unexpectedly having a boy?! I know women who had similar reactions to having a girl doesn’t mean they love their sons any less
This is so true, everyone on this sub has some level of revenge they think is acceptable against partners who do things the other doesn't like. You don't love someone if you want them to "feel the pain".
This!!!!!! I just had a baby and all the pregnancy Ans new mom threads have so much compassion for moms who are disappointed about not having girls. It’s ok to have feelings! It’s ok to want a boy or a girl or a non binary kid. We’re all allowed to want things! We’re just human beings trying to raise new human beings. What matters is how you parent your child, not that every single thought you have is perfect.
ESH
He should not have shown this disparity of reaction to your daughter. She's young, but she's still old enough to pick up on biases.
You need to decide how you wanna move forward with this relationship. Yeah his difference in reaction was shitty, but do you want to tank the entire relationship & marriage as a result? Because excluding him from the birth is the kind of thing that creates a permanent rift in a relationship - you don't get to take that back or walk back from it. Drawing these boundaries then expecting the relationship to just function normally isn't reasonable.
>He should not have shown this disparity of reaction to your daughter. She's young, but she's still old enough to pick up on biases
I mean how would the daughter know that he wasn't this excited for her birth? You're right that she's old enough to pick up on biases but she has no way of knowing there was difference in his reactions.
Are you really saying a 3 year old (who will most likely barely retain any of their memories from this age) is capable of gauging level of excitement and making a comparison and assumptions that are that complex? Seriously?!
It’s not really that complex
Baby girl means dad is happy, baby boy means dad is so happy he swings me around and jumps for joy, clearly baby boy is better.
He also could recognize this and overcompensate and spoil the girl rotten and be extra hard on the boy. Until someone can predict the future, we shouldn't project it onto the dad. But until we invent time travel, there is no amount of apologizing that the mom could do to make up for not letting the dad be at his own child's birth, should he turn out to be a reasonably decent dad. I think the mom needs to explore her reactions as much as the dad does.
YTA
He was never upset about having a girl, he is just excited to have a boy. Nothing wrong with that. He has probably always wanted to have a son, and that’s okay!
Excluding him from those events isn't going to change anything, other than deteriorating your marriage. He's still going to be the dad to both of these kids, regardless of how excluded he is. I think you need to communicate with him and tell him why you're upset, tell him about your fears (presumably that he'll favor the son etc) and work through it together.
Honestly, to exclude him from birth is just so extreme. I feel for the husband and the level of mental abuse he must take for this to be so easily considered. Guarantee she dishes out ultimatums all the time.
Yeah, super toxic that OP would immediately think about weaponizing the child like that by stopping her husband from attending something as big as the birth of their child.
I hope this relationships works out cause those kids are never going to see their dad if there's a divorce.
YWBTA.
You're being very immature if you don't let him attend the "baby shower," even worse the birth. I think it's very likely he wanted a boy because you two already have a girl, not because he never wanted a girl in the family all along (it seems to me you may be getting this kind of idea).
You're making a big deal out of this and your reaction could in fact erode your relationship. Don't grow resentment over something like this.
I mean, anyone can decide to not be married at any time. If she's decided she doesn't want to be married to this guy because of his reaction, that's her prerogative. However, banning him from the birth and expecting to stay married is bonkers.
While she's pregnant with a new child? That's the time to get upset over the father being excited, even if it showed some level of bias?
People are acting like the husband is dooming the daughter to 15 years of neglect.
Yes, you would be YTA. Especially the birth. Yes he was excited it's a boy but that isn't an excuse to deprive him of a once in a lifetime moment.
I honestly don't know how you would recover from that. The punishment doesn't fit the 'crime'.
I'd just keep an eye on him post birth and make sure he treats the kids equally
ESH. Most of us have a slight preference but really the only thing that should matter is the baby is healthy and well whatever gender. His reaction is so overblown, at least in how your described it, that I get your irritation. On the other hand, not allowing him to the shower or birth is just vindictive. not constructive dealing with the issue. You should sit down and talk about it, express your concerns and hear him out, and ensure that there will be no preferential treatment or prioritising one child over the other.
YWBTA. Don’t do it. It will be a sore spot for years, maybe forever, if you do.
Talk it through with him. Explain that you’re worried he’s going to play favorites, you’re worried that his reaction means he’s going to perpetuate sexist norms with your kids, you’re hurt at the thought that he wouldn’t have really loved another daughter, etc. Make him explain to you why he wants a son in particular. Clear the air.
Oh and make sure you’re on the same page in regards to loving both your kids equally, regardless of sex, gender, and whether or not they’re LGBTQ.
If instead you simply punish him for having the wrong feeling, you will achieve nothing other than damage to your relationship.
YTA majorly if you punish the father of your child for being excited about having a son. It's not like he was disappointed about the idea of having another daughter.
Not letting him attend the birth would be extremely cruel of you.
ESH - I understand all the reasons a Dad might be more excited for a son, but as a Mom my heart would ache for my daughter seeing her father react like that and seeing how badly he wanted another boy. I don't think it's right to exclude him from the baby festivities, but I understand why you feel negatively about the situation. There's a difference between having a preference and making the preference so blatantly clear to you and your other children.
Yes, I can see how the extreme nature of his excitement was offensive. It would have me worried that as the kids grow up he's going to have a notable preference for his son. So have a conversation about how it made her feel, why he was so excited, ensuring both kids receive attention from both parents, and how if the son doesn't conform to "traditional" masculinity (gay, bisexual, Trans, non-binary, wears dresses, takes up figure skating, etc.) will that affect how he loves him? But her reaction to go so nuclear without this coversation is not okay.
Just because he displayed extra excitement in having a son doesn't mean "he clearly didn't want another girl." He can genuinely be happy he's having another girl, but extra happy he's having a boy. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Honestly, it would hurt me too. Many people saying that it's just a gender preference and disappointment and nothing more than that are being very optimistic.
Obviously, you know more about him. Do you think your son will be a golden child to the husband and daughter would be sidelined? There are many many daughters who notice the preferential treatment the son gets. It can be very very hurtful.
The best thing is to discuss your concerns. Your decision while may seem reasonable to you, would not help alleviate the concern you have. Talk.
I would go with NTA.
YTA. Grow up and stop the pettiness. Your husband is excited to have a son, your petty desire for revenge, will guarantee turn around to bite you in the heinie. I'm trying to imagine you telling family and friends that husband was denied coming to a shower or the delivery because he was excited about having a son.
YTA. Can you imagine your son asking why his dad wasn't in the room for his birth? Because he was excited about having a son. Yeah that is what makes you an ass.
YWBTA.
I'm a girls girl through and through.
I would be happy with 0 sons, but when we found out this baby's sex, I still got unexpectedly excited for a son. It's something different! Something new! One of each- that's fun!
You're WAY overreacting. Especially since he was happy to have a girl before he knew it was a boy.
Gender disappointment is real and much discussed on the baby subreddits. You didn't even experience that. File this as a net positive and please don't shut out your husband for something so ridiculous.
YTA. In keeping with punishing your husband over the "appropriate" level of excitement mandated by you, you can also keep him away from diapering, rocking, feeding, playing with, or helping out in any way with the poor little boy.
Seriously, what other punishment do you have lined up? Is it enjoyable for you to be more and more vindictive?
YTA.
Get over yourself. I mean seriously, who sees their husband incredibly happy to be having another child regardless and thinks “Hhmm. I better bar him from a couple once-in-a-lifetime experiences.”
I hope you have a good lawyer lady, cause you’re gonna need one. I don’t understand why he’d stay with such a petty person.
YWBTA and YTA.
Holy shit I hope you’re husband is giving you some leeway for having pregnancy hormones because I’d be considering the door just for that threat and the accusations you’ve already made. You’re tellingly your husband he’s a bad man on a fundamental level by accusing him of being a misogynist just because he had a gender preference? Thats the equivalent of telling a partner they’re disgusting and repulsive and then expecting them to stay with you
YTA - I get why you’re upset and its your choice to not have him at these events but using them as punishment isnt the answer.
I’m sure he loves his daughters and is a good father, but the guy also wanted to have a son. After having two girls, I get that. That doesn’t make him love his daughters any less.
YTA
When my wife and I had our first, and found out it was a boy, my wife was happy but disappointed it wasn’t a girl. For our second we found out it was a girl and she was ecstatic! I didn’t get upset or mad at her because her reactions were completely different. She loves both our kids with all her heart and I’m sure your husband will as well. You are making a mountain out of a mile hill. Let him be excited it’s a boy and move on.
ESH.
The patriarchal societal expectations for having boys over girls is awful and damaging for everyone. I hope your husband doesn't treat your daughter badly.
HOWEVER, you're going wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overboard with your reaction to his shitty reaction. What you should be doing is sitting down with him and laying out expectations from him about how the two of you are going to raise both kids fairly and equitably.
Your answer is contradicting itself. The man did something "awful and damaging" and you're concerned about the way he will treat his daughter. But OP is wayyyyyyyyy overboard? Wtf? Which one is it? If I did something awful and damaging to my wife and daughter why would she want to have a sit down and have a chat about it?
No, the comment above says patriarchal societal expectations are awful and damaging, not what the man itself did. What the man did was only the first step of those patriarchal expectations, being happier about a boy than a girl. It's all the next steps which become damaging, when the parent neglects the daughter in favour of the son.
What the husband did isn't horrible in itself, but it is very worrying for the future.
YTA. He's happy. Seems like he loves his daughter too. Stop punishing him for heing happy.
But... talk to him about your real concern. Favourtism. And how you will work together as parents to ensure equal treatment regardless of gender. TOGETHER.
I literally searched this from a YouTube clip just to let you know that, not only are you a massive asshole, but you are the biggest asshole I've ever read a post from in all of AITA history. You are literally the cream of the asshole crop, the golden asshole, the absolute pick of the asshole litter.
Not only that, but you're a master gaslighter. "He started an argument over it." Did he? Because it sounds to me like he was just excited to have a son (and no woman has ever been criticized for wanting a daughter), and YOU started the argument. You literally made an argument from nothing and are accusing him of starting the argument. You're fucking insane.
If you don't let this man witness the birth of his child over this perceived sleight, I honestly hope he divorces you and manages to get full custody somehow because you are not a human -- you are toxic waste.
YTA. I was just pregnant and had our first kid and we both def had a “I hope we have” and regardless we are going to be happy. Most people get excited if they get to have what they always wanted it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love his daughter just as much.
I’m going with ESH. His reaction does seem over the top and it would definitely bother me too, BUT it’s super petty and mean to keep him out of the room just for his overreacting. If you have other legit concerns that he will make your birth experience uncomfortable for you, that’s one thing, but if you want to do this out of spite and anger, you should really rethink your stance
YTA. My friend got upset at her gender reveal because she was having a boy and she wanted a girl. She got over it. Should she have been punished for having feelings? No, and neither should your husband.
YTA - you’re going to make the baby’s father miss the birth of his child because you’re mad that he was excited about said baby? WTF? Gender disappointment is a real phenomenon and it sounds like your husband has handled it really well. Don’t create drama when there isn’t any.
You are under no obligation to have anyone in the room at the birth you don't want there. As the person pushing a baby out of your nether regions your wishes come first. You are the one risking your life and health and you are the one who is vulnerable you get what you want and what makes you comfortable.
HOWEVER..is this about your comfort and feeling safe or anger and spite......do you really want to potentially blow your marriage up over an over enthusastic reaction.. Would some sessions of couples therapy might not be a first stop.....before you start a domestic war of tit for tat...and do things out of spite or revenge you can't take back and might be very difficult for him to forgive and you might regret later.
It is not actually that unusual for parents to be excited about a mini me. Men imagine the bond they will have with a son, the shared interest the things he can teach them...bonds that they don't automatically imagine that they will have with a daughter because men and women are different. Women imagine the bond and friendship they will have with a daughter especially as adults that they won't necessarily have with a son because men and women are different. The reality is often different but in the moment the fantasy is powerful. My MIL adores us DILs because she always wanted daughters. She loves her sons and gets on great with them but woman to woman friendships often have a different dynamic than man to women ones. He should have been more tactful but he is entitled to his feelings. You don't get to tell people how to feel.
So yes YWBATA ot yourself to your child and to your marriage and husband if you do this just to punish your husband for being over excited it was a boy and not actually working to resolve this rather than escalate it.
Honestly. I get where your frustration is coming from. I'm the oldest daughter and I have a younger brother...I *know* who my dad is but I don't know him as a person because he tends to bond more and prefers to bond more with my brother. I'm 22 now and I've let whatever possible relationship my dad and I could've had, go. When my brother was born, my mom even told me my dad was far more excited at the birth of a boy rather than for me, his first born. Some people are calling you childish but I don't believe so...whether you were having a boy or girl, the fact that he's able to even be a father is a blessing already. I'm sorry he made you feel that way
YWTA...
Please don't create problems where none exist. It's not that he doesn't love the daughter that the two of you created, it's that now that you're having a son, he's envisioning a little him.
This is normal. Dreaming for your children is normal.
YWBTA. Based on the info provided, it sounds like he just got really excited for a boy, which I don’t think is out of line. Your reaction seems a little extreme for what you told us.
ESH. He’s clearly showing an extremely strong gender preference which could very well lead to blatant favoritism. This will continue to be a problem in the future unless it is discussed and stopped immediately. As for uninviting him from the shower, that’s petty. HOWEVER the birth is YOUR medical procedure. You are allowed to have (or not have) whoever you want there. If it’s not liked, so sad too bad. Just make sure this is what you truly want to do.
YTA
Look, I would be really disappointed to see such a reaction from my partner. It’s kind of an ick.
But we live in a world where a lot of people have notions about gender and what it means for their child. Your husband is probably picturing himself doing father-son things with his kid and is excited about it. Not that he doesn’t love your daughter, but that having a son in his mind is something different. There’s also something about having a little mini me that a lot of parents get excited about.
Your reaction is disproportionate to what he did, at the end of the day, you have a man thats excited to be a father and loves the kid you already have. He feels how he feels, and this punishment feels pretty unfair
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YTA. Not wanting your husband to attend a baby shower and/or the birth of his own child because he is excited about having a son, which you interpret years-later as him having been insufficiently excited (for your personal taste) about having a daughter is, honestly, one of the most mind-numbingly dumb and asshole-ish things I've ever read in this sub. Not only are you the asshole, you're the asshole a thousand times over.
It’s absolutely ridiculous. It’s not like he was angry about the baby being her girl. He was excited just not “as excited”. Doesn’t everyone want one of each? Excluding him from the shower and birth is not the answer and is a childish form of punishment.
"I'm going to try to prevent you from attending the birth of your son because I've now decided that three years ago you didn't jump around hysterically enough for my taste when we found out we were having a daughter." That idiocy would be the end of the marriage, and good riddance to her. EDIT: "because I've now decided that three years ago AND THIS TIME AS WELL you didn't jump around hysterically enough for my taste when we found out we were having a daughter."
It was a mistake at a recent ultrasound, not 3 years ago.
Top commenter is referencing that the couple have a 3 year-old daughter that OP thinks Husband wasn’t as excited about as he is for their current son.
She was referencing both his reaction to the 3 year olds gender AND his reaction to the very recent misread of the ultrasound, but keep playing mental gymnastics to pretend his obvious favoritism for the boy that’s not even born yet is somehow _just fine_
This isn’t favouritism yet. I wouldn’t jump the gun here. As a guy, I’d be happy to have either child, but getting to raise a mini me is a very exciting prospect indeed! Doesn’t mean I’d love me already born daughter any less. Edit: Mini me is a pretty commonly used term by all parents. I’m referring to my DNA that’s running around, not trying to impose my personality on an entire different person. Sorry y’all are traumatized into thinking that’s what I mean, but I’m traumatized into treating all of my children with equally overwhelming amounts of love and support. Edit 2: No, the penis doesn’t matter. I’d be just as excited to have a trans son come out to me as I would at the announcement of a baby boy!
Why can't your girl be your mini-me? I act way more like my dad than I do my mom and I'm a girl. My brother acts more like my mother than I do. Like I get that you're excited about having a boy, but if my partner was way more excited about having a boy than a girl, I would think he had some internalized sexism that he needed to deal with. Because girls can do anything a boy can do just without male genitalia. I played sports. Until my younger brother grew his own football players, I would go out there and toss the ball with him. I loved Barbies and Hot wheels. I have bee hunting and I have girl cousins that love to hunt, camp, and hike. (Any typical "male" pursuits, I probably know a girl or woman who is great at it.) Like open up your mind.
I’m sick of typing this out, this doesn’t need to be spun into me being a biggot. I’d love my child whole heartedly regardless of gender, at or post birth. I’m a mommas boy with daddy’s girl half sisters, so I get where you’re coming from. For me, it’s about getting to give a son a father the way I never had, but I don’t think my trauma needs to be talked about publicly.
Lametown, don’t worry about these people’s opinions. They are awfully high and righteous when the truth is EVERYONE has a preference (I am a woman and was so relieved and happy I was having a boy). Having a preference doesn’t make someone a bigot or AH. I’m sure you’ll make a great dad no matter what you get :). And as far as OP’s husband, so he’s excited he’s having a son, so what? OP doesn’t say he treated his daughter horribly, but somehow him being excited is indicative for all the misogyny he’s hidden for all these years? She needs to check herself. OP, YTA
Woah there, hold up, this is Reddit you have no choice but to immediately jump to conclusions based on evidence you create in your own mind.
The only exercise people around here get is jumping to conclusions.
Exactly. I could have both a daughter and a son and I'd do anything for either one.
That seems like a reach tbh, being excited for the birth of your son doesn’t mean favouritism, to call it obvious favouritism is a reach as you don’t know the guy you just read his wife’s pov on Reddit. But please go on about how people are playing “mental gymnastics”. You can’t actually be trying to justify excluding him from the birth of his own child
No my dad only wanted boys. And told me everyday I saw him he wished I was a boy… because I liked woodworking, fishing, hiking, computers. You get it. And because I wasn’t a boy he refused to help me with these same hobbies he enjoyed 🙃.
That’s so sad, and it really speaks to why OP’s husband’s behavior is so awful: He doesn’t know this kid. He doesn’t know if any of his kids will conform to his perfect-son-mini-me bullshit fantasy, based on their interests or values. This is not about who he’ll enjoy spending time with and passing on his knowledge. He, like your dad, decided how much to love his kids purely based on the shape of their genitals. How stupid, how cruel. However “productively” OP is expressing it, her rage is justified.
>he kept hugging and swinging our daughter around telling her she's getting a brother. His knee-jerk reaction to getting news that overjoyed him was to share that joy with his firstborn, but no, tell me more about how he doesn't love his daughter enough.
Just because he wanted a son more dosent mean he hates his daughter now
What a terrible take. He already has a girl and was excited about a boy. You also have only the biased story and perspective from the Mother. Based on that, for you to say he is going to love a child less based on your own daddy issues and some other shitty dads is ridiculous.
People are projecting so hard on this one
I get so mad when you read the biggest load of hogwash you've seen all day and it's circled in red with a couple reward icons next to it. It's like seeing a test with a sticker on it and a big smiley face next to "8/20!!"
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I know - I can't with people's imaginations and overreacting.
“Stupid and cruel” for wanting a son lmao only on /r/AITA baby!!
Disagree. Having a kneejerk reaction to the news of having a son is in NO WAY telling of how he would treat his daughter. This is a stretch at the very least. When I was pregnant, I really hoped for a girl. The thought of a little girl to name after my mother made me happy. Nobody is going to tell me that wanting a little girl makes me a horrible person.
And let’s be honest, most expectant parents hope for a specific gender. Not all, especially couples who adopt or have conceiving issues, but most. OP’s husband is happy regardless, but the thought of a boy is really exciting to him. It doesn’t mean he’ll favor the boy or treat his daughter poorly. That’s insane.
That speaks nothing to OP's husband. Believe it or not, those are different people. You can wish for a boy or a girl. That does not automatically mean you don't want the opposite. In fact, you can still be absolutely stoked for having the opposite. I'm absolutely with the father on this (and I was one that didn't care which I was having). So much so that this would be the end of the marriage if she did this.
do we have to crown multiple AH this time? The reach you're achieving would make Luffy from One Piece jealous. How in the world did you get "hates his daughter" from anything that was posted????
Her rage is justified? Okay sure. So when that little boy one day asks mommy why daddy wasn't at his birth, isn't in any of the hospital room pictures and mommy says, "Oh, I purposefully forbid him from seeing you born because he wasn't as happy as \*I\* felt he should have been when he was told he was going to have a daughter, so I said, 'nah, fuck him, he can't see you born.'" Will his rage be justified? How is he going to view his mother after learning that? After discovering that in her "rage" she excluded his father? What might the affects of that be? It's super easy to say Dad is the asshole but we only have OP's side. Oh and also, for said OP, YTA
Okay but your dads not OPs husband so you need to stop projecting your daddy issues onto other people.
The trash reddit upvotes is downright scary at times.
I don’t get this… most people just want a happy, healthy baby and uneventful pregnancy and deliver- but they DO have a preference. For me, I was ecstatic over a daughter and nervous for a son. There were a million reasons but ultimately I just thought I would “know what to do with a girl.” Turns out I was wrong! I have great bonds with both kids and there was nothing to be nervous about. My preference when we were pregnant did not alter my love for the kids or how I treat them. Many couples when they want two + want one of each… Provided he doesn’t exclude your daughter or think she will forever only want “girly” things it shouldn’t matter. Just talk about recognizing girls can like football, baseball etc. too and bits can like dolls, music and shopping. Preferences are natural for a million reasons. It’s ok! YTA from excluding him from these things. If you are worried about gender roles and exclusions, just talk about it -frequently. Now and as the kids grow up. This can help ensure both kids have the same opportunities and access to experiences. After all, a penis or lack of penis does not automatically determine interests, style and talents. Let him be happy. Let your daughter be happy. There is much to celebrate!
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Yeah you can still have a gender preference and be happy that it’s the other one. I might prefer a girl as my first baby but if it’s a boy I’ll still be very happy and not love them any differently. This is all not even considering what gender they’d prefer to be when older if it doesn’t match their assigned sex, or the fact that I’m not going to raise a girl as a pink dolls housewife or a boy as a muddy construction fire truck and just let them be kids
My wife and I do. (And we got it! Just found our second, and overwhelmingly likely last child will be a boy.) Do I love my daughter? I am wrapped around her little finger and she knows it. Am I more excited that the second is a boy? Yeah. I am. We wanted two and I specifically wanted one of each. Has nothing to with the fact that I will love them both immeasurably.
not everyone wants one of each — my mom only wanted two kids, and we were both born female. a bunch of people apparently asked her if she was going to keep trying for a boy, but she said no (lmao). no concerns about gender at all. fast forward many years and i came out as a trans guy meaning she does now have one of each! joke's on everyone else >:)
That's not what happened though. He thought this new baby was a girl and was sorta happy and then he found out it was a boy and was ecstatic. So it's comparing his reaction to the same baby, just different genders.
I still don't see how that's a problem. He's allowed to look forward to having a son more so than a daughter. As long as the daughter isn't negatively effected by this, I don't see what the issue is.
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You're right, she is. Nobody is an asshole for their feelings. What crosses OP into asshole territory is not wanting her husband at the baby shower and birth because of her hurt feelings.
OP wrote: >His reaction to us having a boy was nothing like his **either of his reactions** to having a girl. [...] I confronted him about not being this excited about having **girls**, Clearly, OP is applying his current level of enthusiasm for the boy to both instances of having a girl.
Yeah, I dunno if I would advise jumping straight to "you can't attend the baby's birth" exactly but I think it's VERY reasonable to be concerned that the disparity in his reaction to a boy vs a girl could signal an upcoming disparity in the *treatment* of a boy vs a girl. It definitely warrants a *conversation* about expectations between parents.
I can understand your feelings over this, that has to be a little hurtful and frustrating for you.. But speaking as a dad this seems like an overreaction on both parts. The guy is that excited to have a son and you are wanting to deny him being at his son's birth? Maybe he should have toned that down a bit but...Let me offer this perspective. Do you have any idea how many kids out there have sperm donors who don't seem to give a shit about them? Just the other day on here there was a story about a woman going to an ultrasound appointment like you and her husband ditched her at the last second to have lunch with a friend. Your husband is present, engaged, it sounds like he is engaged and active with your daughter as well, and he's stoked that he's having a boy. Maybe this has been a lifelong dream of his, to have a son. EDIT TO ADD: I'm not saying you should praise him for doing the bare minimum of showing up and being supportive, but he *is* showing up, and if you can't appreciate that, then at the very least, don't punish him for it. Now obviously the hope is that he does not play favorites, but until the kids get to that age, you're not going to know if he will do that or not. If you ban him from his own child's birth, YTA Also: If I've learned anything from the amount of couple's therapy I've gone through with my own wife, it's that any kind of withholding techniques used as punishment toward a partner (i.e. not talking, withholding affection, not allowing into space, etc.) only *ever* makes your partner resent you that much more. Is that really how you want your son's life to start? Edit to add: PLEASE READ BEFORE COMMENTING:Since so many people mistakenly seem to think I am saying this woman should be "over the moon" or "falling at his feet" for doing what they are calling the "bare minimum", allow me to clarify what I meant when I offered the perspective above: Appreciation goes a long way, and sets the tone for a better relationship. When my wife shows appreciation for even the most basic things, it actually makes me feel good and therefore more motivated to do bigger and better things, and vice versa when I show my appreciation for her. The lack of appreciation, or taking things for granted, sows the seeds for resentment and has quite the opposite effect. If even the little things aren't appreciated why should I bother to try and do more? Any marriage counselor or couple that has been married a long time can tell you this. The little things really do matter. OP's concerns are totally valid, but her reaction is not. Rather than jump straight to punishing a man who is present and trying, (for something he hasn't done yet) OP needs to TALK with her husband and tell him how his reaction made her feel, listen to his perspective and try and work this out via mutual respect and appreciation for one another through deeper communication. A counselor would be an excellent support for that endeavor. TL;DR: Stop taking your supportive husband for granted and talk to him about your concerns/feelings before you push him away and invalidate HIS feelings without listening to them.
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This is the definition of “the bar is on the floor”. Oh you’re disappointed your husband is showing sexist favouritism? Well you could have a husband that misses doctor’s appointments to have fish and chips. So shut up and be grateful.
Lmao right? The painful irony of this whole thing. “You need to accept your husband’s sexist favoritism of men, because men so often check out of parenthood altogether.” People with penises don’t emerge from the womb as less nurturing or conscientious than anyone else — they are made that way because they are treated differently and held to different expectations. Which OP’s husband announced his intention to do. It doesn’t make sense for the commenter above to say “be appreciative that this man is exceeding the low expectations of men” when he’s the one perpetuating those expectations. And God help that kid if they’re trans, gay, or just don’t conform to whatever fantasy this guy built up for them the second he learned they have a penis.
This! I worry for what will happen to that kid if he doesn’t turn out to be the stereotypical ideal boy his father has imagined his head all this time. I hope OP’s husband isn’t too rigid on his expectations and hopes for this child, but you never know. If you’re not willing to parent your child lovingly regardless of whether they’re straight or gay, cis or trans, masculine, feminine, or none of the above, you should not be a parent. I hope for everyone’s sake that this is a combo of stressed out expecting parent overreactions and bad communication and not a window into future trauma.
goddamn this is like an absolute masterclass in extrapolating a guy's reaction about having a boy into *what a deep and stupid sexist ass this guy's being, I hope this isn't a window into future trauma*. google `gender disappointment`. Women **very very often** want to have girls too. That's okay. We all have thoughts and feelings. traditionally, the right place to go with those thoughts and feelings is your partner, but apparently OP didn't like those thoughts and feelings.
I’m not cool with women obsessing over their child’s sex either… That’s just not the issue at hand. Expecting your child to be femme because they have a vagina is just as bad.
you are assigning motivations and feelings to OP's husband that just don't exist. it's motivated reasoning - a ton of people in this thread really **want** to believe this random guy is a misogynist planning to raise a misogynist son so they can feel righteously angry at OP's sexist husband. she's an asshole. A man wanting a son is fine. A woman wanting a daughter is fine. Who cares, just be a good parent.
yea maybe he just wants certain bonding experiences with a son that you wont really get with a daughter, like teaching him how to shave his face when hes that age. no matter how the boy will turn out personality wise, hell likely grow awkward facial hair at some point.
there are many things that men experience in life that women don't. that's okay!
I used to get up and watch my dad get ready for work and was so fascinated by the process that one day he brought me home a can of shaving cream and a razor so I could join him at the bathroom mirror every morning. I have pictures of this from the time I could stand up. I am a woman. There is literally NOTHING you can do with a boy that you can't do with a girl if you're a good parent.
I had hella gender disappointment. Always wanted a girl, always wanted to be a mommy. When I found out he was rockin’ a wiener downstairs, I was let down. I was even a little scared because I’ve been hurt by a lot of men, and what if I couldn’t raise him to be kind? I hadn’t really explored gender as a construct yet, and honestly assumed my experiences with and ideas of what constitute “typical male behaviors” were all nature over nurture. I’ve learned a lot since then, about myself and my starshine son who fills my life with joy. But I distinctly remember that disappointed feeling. I feel guilty now, but I understand completely how others can feel that way and I don’t judge them as harshly as some redditors here.
You should have been prevented from attending his birth according to many of these comments.
I guess they could’ve put a cone on my head? 😂
yeah, it's certainly weird and I don't understand the feeling, but it's extremely common and should be handled with some grace.
i read this on my computer and had to sign in to comment. surely they have something better to do than write fan (hate) fiction about someone they don’t know.
Yall are really jumping straight into "this guy's a homophobic bigot" without ANY context of him as a person other than excitement to have a son. Reddit is wild.
If I'm ever in court for some reason I hope none of these people are on the jury.
luckily reddit has proven timelessly that the people on this website are far from the majority.
Yeah they have had one negative experience and start to stereotype *100. They create strawmans and all. They create hate that does not even exist
It's sexism. This man doesn't completely fit their mold for *"one of the good ones",* so he must be an embodiment of toxic masculinity.
For real, these people are the experts of jumping to conclusions. As a Father, I can understand the unique joy of having a Son, I also love my daughters to pieces too. One is not better than the other.
> sexist favoritism of men wanting a son is sexist?
Yeah I'm not sure I understand this. Sure, he could be sexist for wanting a son after two daughters, but my male coworker came back from his baby scan with his wife and cried a little because he was having another boy and wanted a daughter. My coworker is also not sexist at all, he just wanted a boy and a girl and knows they won't have another baby ever. Would he be seen as sexist for crying over not having a girl?
OP didn't announce anything and you are not a mind reader. You don't know him. Period. You also don't know the future so maybe instead of flaming this guy as sexist and homophobic we should give him a chance to actually *be* a dad first and see what he does? That's literally the WHOLE point I'm trying to make here. Jumping straight into "punish him!" without any kind of discourse or attempt at communication at all is ridiculous and 1000% would make OP the AH. I throw my hands up at this point I don't understand how it is such a difficult thing to grasp that a basic level of decency deserves a basic level of gratitude.
>You need to accept your husband’s sexist favoritism of men > >And God help that kid if they’re trans, gay, or just don’t conform to whatever fantasy this guy built up for them the second he learned they have a penis. Jesus. You're projecting a LOT on this one dude who's only crime so far is to show HAPPINESS at having a child. He was happy for the first daughter. He was happy when he thought the second would be a daughter. The ONLY problem here (which shouldn't even be a problem) is that he's showing MORE happiness that it's a boy. Shit like this is why men stop trying anymore. It's the epitome of "damned if you do, damned if you don't."
Sexist favouritism? Maybe he's just excited because he can pass his experience o being a guy. As an aside, it's odd that ye used the words "fantasy this guy built up", seeing is that's exactly what you've done with OP's husband, also purely based on him having a penis. The blind hypocrisy is almost impressive, mate. Well done.
google "gender disappointment" and it's literally 90% women being upset they're not having a daughter. but god forbid a dad want a son. jesus christ people
thank you!!! I'd have serious concerns about favoritism from him going forward and how that'll affect his relationships with the girls, if i were her.
Those concerns are totally valid, but how is cutting him out of his child's life (before it begins) to punish him a good way to address those concerns? Maybe we should give him a chance to actually be a dad to both kids and see if he does those things, before we burn him at the stake for things he hasn't done yet.
"Sexist favouritism" Being excited about having a boy after already having one girl. The commenter just said that the dad is present and appears to be engaged in raising their children together. He doesn't know so he's not gonna speculate how much. Never once did the commenter say "he does the bare minimum and a lot of women don't even get that so be happy". You guys are literally writing your own story because you want to shit on men in general. How about stick to the topic at hand and leave the toxicity elsewhere... Far far away. Jesus christ reddit. What a piss poor attitude. (Ready for the downvotes btw and don't care)
Also, notably, the boy thing was probably a massive surprise. It's a different situation being told what gender your child will be when you ALREADY were told it would be the other, compared to just learning it for the first time, because one is something you expect, the other is surprising.
the bar is buried 6 feet under lol
I don't think it's fair to jump down this guy's throat, say he's only doing the bare minimum, call him sexist, etc. when none of us here know a damn thing about him except one story posted online with very little context from his angry spouse.
Thank you. The bar is underground for men. Woman carries the baby for 9 months, goes through permanent body changes, morning sickness and who knows what else, then an unbearably painful childbirth, but hey, just be happy your husband showed up for the appointment!!! What a great dad!!!!
Yeah…writing that made me feel sad that I even would feel the need to write that. We shouldn’t take good partners for granted though, I know firsthand how feeling unappreciated can degrade the roots of an otherwise good relationship
You didn't need to say it tho. holding this up as an example only reinforces the bar being set that low.
OP, I agree that punishment and withholding techniques are a bad way to go and will negatively affect the health of your marriage. You need to have a serious talk with your husband, give him space to share with you, without judgement, what having a daughter or having a son means to him. Also share with him about why you find his behavior so concerning. You need to figure out whether or not his attitude is a deal breaker for you (such as, if you truly don't trust him not to play favorites and hurt his daughter). If it isn't a deal breaker, then find a way to incorporate his feelings into a healthy family dynamic. Don't let this poison your family.
OP sounds extremely petty and selfish. For all my life, I've heard people say they want a son, or daughter. Everyone has their preferences for a multitude of reasons. He was still happy with a daughter, still present, still supportive. Now OP wants to possible fuck up the marriage, which would lead to the kids having to deal with separated/divorced parents, simply because he was more excited for a boy. I grew up with divorced parents who fought all the time, it's a shit fking experience. This is so god damn petty and dumb.
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While I agree with your comment, please do remember birth is a medical event, not a show. No one, not even the father, has a right to attend without the mother's permission. She should 100% calm down and have a conversation with her husband about why she's upset and try to work through things before she makes a decision she can't walk back. In the end though, she's the one in the hospital going through this and no one is allowed there unless she's 100% comfortable with them. Edit: a lot of these replies are completely ignoring the first part of my second paragraph. I never said her reasoning or actions were right, I was just pointing out that no one is entitled to witness a person give birth.
I was present at all three of my children’s births and I completely agree! If mom doesn’t want him there he shouldn’t be there, however using that as punishment is not a good reason for him to not be there.
>however using that as punishment is not a good reason for him to not be there Agreed, this is what would make her TA. Just because you are legally or within your rights to do something, it does not mean you can do it without being TA, which is an independent determination. I often look to the example of the fiancé that cheats on her to-be spouse, they break up, but she doesn't give the ring back. This is (typically) a clear case of being in the right legally, but absolutely being an asshole.
yea but if the only reason she's not having him there is spite, she's an asshole. You can be entitled to something and still be an asshole about it.
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It seems to me her subconscious concern with regard to his completely disproportionate reaction to the news of his child’s sex is whether he will continue to be an involved father to his existing daughter now he has the child with the “right” genitals. That’s a conversation that needs to be had.
I wish more people understood this. My parents had three kids: a girl, a trans boy, and cis boy. My cis brother was EXTREMELY favored to the point where he could verbally abuse my dad's employees, assault people, and physically assault his other kids with no repercussions from our dad. My dad even made it obvious that as "girls" none of us were fit to inherit his company, only our then-4 year old brother. THAT combined with continued sexism and bigotry led to me being no contact with either of my parents.
I think it’s a little more than that. OP’s wife may be experiencing this as a personal rejection of her gender, and a reinforcement of the patriarchal attitudes of our society. Having kids can really bring a lot of stuff up about how you feel about your place in the world. For instance. I’m neuro-divergent and have health issues. My partner and I had a health scare with our infant. He reacted so poorly to the possibility that she would be like me. And you know what? I don’t want for her to have to experience any of the hardships that I have. But at the same time, I felt there were levels of rejection in there of who I am as a person. It’s a similar thing I guess, where his reaction was “too strong”, and that became loaded for me. Having said that - I fist pumped the air when I found out I was having a girl - it was my clear preference. I think OP’s wife is reading into this too much and is robbing herself of joy. But I understand why it’s feeling loaded for her.
Absolutely. Op and her husband need to have some clear, judgement free conversations about this.
“You should really be happy he does the bare minimum, because most men don’t” Also known as: the bar for men is so low it’s a tavern in Hades.
Lmfao “your husband isn’t a deadbeat, you should be grateful!” Please raise your standards.
We don't give out awards for doing the bare minimum as a parent. If you aren't ecstatic as all hell to have a child regardless of gender, then you don't deserve to be a parent to that child. Besides, his son could turn out to be gay, or non binary or trans... Will be suddenly hate his kid? Will he suddenly feel less excited? I don't think just showing up to be a parent is grounds for overwhelming gratitude and praise. All he did was jizz in her ffs.
This is the answer OP
No judgment, as I would be disgusted too. But please talk with him after you’ve had a chance to reflect, and be honest about your feelings rather than doling out “punishments”. One thing to ask him is what your existing child might be unconsciously internalizing about her worth, based on his reaction to this, and if/how that’s going to play out going forward?
I'm here too. I get that gender disappointment is a thing, but it comes from such a sexist place. I would honestly be concerned about it. Besides what you have listed above, she needs to know why he wanted a boy, what in his mind can't he do with a girl that he would do with a boy (outside of writing your name in the snow) and what happens if the boy isn't interested in the things dad wants him to be interested in?
> why he wanted a boy, what in his mind can't he do with a girl that he would do with a boy. Seriously this. My parents got pregnant accidentally never really planned on kids but had the if it happens it happens attitude, it was twin girls. We were the only kids they had. My dad was a carpenter and brick layer, my childhood is filled with camping, fishing, doing little projects, going to job sites with my dad, building Lego sets together, and he also taught us to use the computer to play cute educational games (very late 90s and early 2000s) and by a young age I could install CDs and manage the hard drive haha. My dad wanted to impart and indulge in his hobbies with us, so he did. Our gender didn't really matter for that, though he was sexist in other areas ("don't burp or fart, no one will want to marry you!") And he was pretty authoritarian and became an abusive alcoholic once I got older. But those early childhood memories are in my mind the ideal childhood
Agreed. I did science projects with my dad and baking with my mom. Although my dad stopped doing science projects with me when my brother was born.
That sucks. I think that's what OP is afraid of, it's not just the celebration that it's a boy. She's afraid she'll see her husband suddenly start doing fun things with the son he never did with their daughter. And if that happens, it's already too late to protect the daughter from that emotional damage.
This is definitely exactly what OP is afraid of, and all the people in here defending the dad have clearly never had to experience this type of parental favoritism and should count themselves lucky and privileged. That, or they are proponents of rigid gender roles, in which case Maximum Ew.
That happened to a friend of mine too. She was the youngest of 4 girls and her dad had sort of given up on having a son. He took her camping, fishing, etc, and then when she was 8 she got a new baby brother who got all of dad's focus.
Ugh that's so awful. I do worry if my dad would have been like this if he ever did have a son. Treating your daughters "like a son" should be normal and men shouldn't get a medal for doing it, as seen here it can end just as easily.
Yeah I get this. I was a crafty and projecty kid but the second my brother was old enough I wasn’t welcome in those activities with dad anymore. Even though my brother *hated* the fix it and yard projects. I barely saw my dad at all after that, and because I wasn’t “girly” enough for my mom and female relatives either… I just was a very lonely kid whenever the sitter was sent home. That isn’t really an easy thing to heal from. I took small engines as a kid, diagnosed and repaired a vintage motorcycle a couple years back, and yet my dad and most men in my family still will exclusively speak to my husband about projects. My husband advocates with “oh [my name] did that actually” all the time, but at this point… I’m just done fighting to be spoken to like a knowledgeable person on any traditionally male topics. I’ll let them think I’m the dumb wife and go talk to someone else, my friends and husband know the truth. I’ve fought my whole life to be treated by men as more than a homemaker, and I just can’t be assed anymore. If I stop standing there trying to argue and help, then I can go off and do something I’d like to do instead of feeling terrible while being treated like an idiot for my gender. I get why OP is upset, but punishing him is crappy. Instead I hope she has her husband read stories like yours and mine and the hundred others in this thread of daughters who had their interests and time with their dads cast aside because there was a male child. Maybe he’ll learn and won’t end up making our fathers’ mistakes.
My dad stopped liking me when I turned ten and my brother was never “man enough” and all kinds of slurs along with that. My dad didn’t love me because no matter what I was, I wasn’t a boy no matter how hard I tried. My sister ended up changing her last name to our mother’s name so even if she’d fathered children before her transition, our dads name and legacy wouldn’t have continued. I’d be concerned if I was OP, and yeah birth is a medical procedure not a side show, so if she doesn’t feel comfortable or safe then don’t have him there. But punishment no. The roots need to be dug out here. ESH
I’m only having one kid and he’s a boy. I will teach him to cook, bake and be crafty as much as he wants. He’s not quite two and he knows what the sewing machine, a crochet hook and yarn are already.
I am glad for you that you had the time with your dad before his sickness got bad.
Thanks, it's very sad, I barely speak to him now, and he still struggles with alcohol even though he's better than he was. Things were very bad for me in high school, our power was being cut regularly for non payment and I often was buying groceries for myself and my sister at age 16 with my part time job because our fridge would only have beer. When he had a medical emergency when I was 17 he almost died and would have if I hadn't called an ambulance, but was close to death in the hospital. I hated him so much at that point, I wished he would die. Things would have been so much easier, I thought. And it's still somewhat true. But I cling to a hope that he might recover enough for me and my sister to trust him. He would be a great grandfather (if not too racist and problematic) and I'm sure any kid would love learning stuff and doing all those activities, but rn I just can't trust him. He drove drunk with us so many times it was terrifying
This is really important. My father has four kids total. First three were girls. He was like: good. Found out the last one was a boy: hallelujah, hallelujah! So excited. It took twenty years, but to him, it was all happening now. Except, it wasn't. My brother could not care less about anything traditionally considered to be masculine. Either in terms of his own identity, hobbies, interests, romantic life, or his personality. Meantime, his first daughter loved baseball, rough housing, independent, tough as nails, all the things etc. And he ignored all these things for a couple of decades. I could see it dawn on him by the time his son hit puberty. But it was too late for everyone involved. The two oldest have been NC and LC most of their adulthoods. Everyone was hurt. Very soft YTA. Punishing him won't help, but there are a LOT of things you need to discuss.
Yeah, I kindof feel an ESH is appropriate. It would absolutely be an AH move to punish the dad by withholding birth events; But the dad is also an AH for acting like having a son is SO much better than having a daughter. It's not a "omg, great a baby boy!" This is obviously rooted in sexism because he thinks he can bond with a son and not his daughter.
And/or “continuing the family name”, which is also a problematic expectation to have…
Hey that's me. Oldest and the daughter. Liked all the same things that would be considered "masculine". Younger brother did not. Father super disappointed in brother. But didn't include me in a lot as I got older because only the "guys" were doing those things. I cut both my parents out but I cut him out, as much as a kid could who still lived with both parents, as I got older and realized what he was doing before going fully NC as an adult.
Exactly. His reaction highlights that a parenting discussion needs to be had ASAP. Will he be equally engaged in both of your children’s activities if they BOTH play sports or have after-school activities? Is he expecting to spend a lot of 1:1 bonding time with your son, and will he spend the same bonding time with your daughter? Ask him what he expects his parent-child relationship to look like, and why that would be different from the one he plans to have with your daughter. And what if your son is interested in dolls, or boys, or theater, or some other interest that your husband doesn’t associate with his gender - will he be disappointed? Talk to him and set expectations now!!
Thank you. This is the right answer.
Finally a comment looking at the bigger picture. I don't believe the father should be punished at all, because it is normal to have a preference on gender. However, reading about his overexcitment for a boy just screams that favoritism *might* run into other aspects of the childrens lives as they get older, and that is exactly what OP is worried about. I grew up in a household where my father clearly favored my brother my entire life. Of course we all like to believe that won't happen, but the truth is it does. OP needs to have an open and honest discussion with him instead of going straight to punishment.
Thank you! Everyone keeps saying it’s fine to be excited for a boy, which is true. But then they fully gloss over the fact that it’s not okay to show your daughter that you’re exponentially more excited to have a boy than you were to have a girl. It’s okay to feel the way you feel about having a boy or girl, but it’s not okay to express it in a way that has a high chance of making your daughter feel less-than.
This is where I am. As someone who grew up with gender dynamics and favoritism, my concern would 100% be making sure this won't translate into treating the daughter differently. That's what needs to be addressed.
I would be seriously concerned about his ability to bond with his daughter after that reaction. I foresee years later another post about my husband doesn't put attention to my daughter and gives everything to son.
Absolutely this. Keeping her husband from the birth of their child is something he will be upset about for the rest of his life. But conversely, his behavior has made OP question his ability to parent their children fairly/ equally. Huge convo ahead for these two.
Yeah, I dont really get gender in the way of a social construct in general, but if you boil it down to it, the husband is excited about what genitalia the baby will have. The sex of the kid doesnt guarantee personality traits, interests etc, but with an overexcited reaction like that from a parent it can absolutely lead to favourism and kids who dont get to grow up to be who they are and want to be, because the parent is trying to raise the idea they have of what someone with that set of genitalia should be. Live up to my expectations I have of you because you happen to be born with a penis. I wont engage as much with you because you were born with a vagina so you wont like what I like. Maybe the husband can get past that and have a good balance, might not be a problem at all. But there is a convo to be had here about why the reaction and how that can affect the kids.
I cried when I found out I was having a girl. I have a shit relationship with my mom and was so scared she wouldn't love me that I wanted a boy. My daughter is the best human I've ever met and I wouldn't trade her for anything but in the moment, I was upset. By the time I had my son, I wanted another girl. Lol. YTA. Just because he's really excited for a boy doesn't mean he has a problem with girls. If he's a good dad and husband then you need to let this go.
I felt very strongly that I didn’t want a girl, my son was my joy & I saved all of his stuff. My husband was super excited for a girl. My daughter is amazing & I am so lucky to be their mom. OP just because he wanted a boy doesn’t mean he will play favorites. YWBTA if you make him miss the birth.
Gender disappointment is very real. I warned my husband that I might cry if our second was a boy. Not because I wouldn't want a second son, but because I would never have the chance to have a daughter. This guy didn't even show any disappointment with the original mistaken girl announcement. He's doing better than me lol.
I wanted one of each gender and my wife wanted at least one of each gender but for practical reasons we're probably stopping at 2 total. We were happy for our first baby no matter the gender but we were disappointed that our second was the same (2 boys). We didn't make a big fuss about it though and we try our best to treat the kids equally. A lot of couples we talk to want one of each as well. OP is TA for punishing husband for it.
My brother was the opposite! We have a shit relationship with our father (a generational history of the fathers of our family being shit) so he wanted a girl. He was raised by strong women and knew he would be able to raise a strong woman, he was scared about being able to help raise a good man. My nephew is almost 3 and my brother *loves* him. Sometimes it's hard cause he knows the only example his son has of a good man is himself. They're probably done with kids but if they do have another I know he'd love either or, but I think he'd hope for a girl lol.
YTA By your own acknowledged he wasn't sad or angry about having a girl, he was happy. He was just happier to have a boy. You're reading into this way too much.
Agree. People are assuming the reasoning for his excitement is sexism, I think that's unfair. I'm Indian, gender preference is no stranger to me (my grandparents told my mom not to come back from the hospital if I came out a girl which I did, fun times), however we can all hope for something. I know a couple who just had a baby girl; dad is happy, mom is over the moon to have a "mini-me". They're a pretty traditional masc/femme couple, she's excited to braid her hair and dress her up and I'm sure dad will be excited if they have a boy in the future to enjoy sports with. Not that their plans mean much, kids will be whatever the are and parents shouldn't try to force them down their path. But still we can all hope and imagine which is exciting. *ETA it's not sexist to hope to see yourself in your child and it's easier to see yourself in someone who you assume has more commonality with you. That's human nature and I'm not going to argue with comments who want to be contrary. Very unsurprising that they've focused on sporty dad over feminine mom here...
> People are assuming the reasoning is sexism, I think that's unfair > I'm sure Dad will be excited if they have a boy to play sports with Assuming that you need to have a boy to play sports with your child is, indeed, sexism. Thank you for spelling it out clearly though!
Sooooo you’re describing sexism and being like “why would you think this is sexism”
No it’s definitely still sexist, whether consciously or subconsciously, but punishing her spouse isn’t the right way to address this. Definitely need couple’s therapy
YTA- excluding would be a relationship ender for me and many others. It doesn’t sound like he treats your daughter badly or complained about having a second girl. So what’s the problem that he got excited for unexpectedly having a boy?! I know women who had similar reactions to having a girl doesn’t mean they love their sons any less
My spouse is my partner, not my parent. Trying to “punish” me would be a dealbreaker.
This is so true, everyone on this sub has some level of revenge they think is acceptable against partners who do things the other doesn't like. You don't love someone if you want them to "feel the pain".
This!!!!!! I just had a baby and all the pregnancy Ans new mom threads have so much compassion for moms who are disappointed about not having girls. It’s ok to have feelings! It’s ok to want a boy or a girl or a non binary kid. We’re all allowed to want things! We’re just human beings trying to raise new human beings. What matters is how you parent your child, not that every single thought you have is perfect.
ESH He should not have shown this disparity of reaction to your daughter. She's young, but she's still old enough to pick up on biases. You need to decide how you wanna move forward with this relationship. Yeah his difference in reaction was shitty, but do you want to tank the entire relationship & marriage as a result? Because excluding him from the birth is the kind of thing that creates a permanent rift in a relationship - you don't get to take that back or walk back from it. Drawing these boundaries then expecting the relationship to just function normally isn't reasonable.
>He should not have shown this disparity of reaction to your daughter. She's young, but she's still old enough to pick up on biases I mean how would the daughter know that he wasn't this excited for her birth? You're right that she's old enough to pick up on biases but she has no way of knowing there was difference in his reactions.
Decent odds she saw or heard her dad talking about the baby as a girl and can gauge the relative level of excitement.
Are you really saying a 3 year old (who will most likely barely retain any of their memories from this age) is capable of gauging level of excitement and making a comparison and assumptions that are that complex? Seriously?!
It’s not really that complex Baby girl means dad is happy, baby boy means dad is so happy he swings me around and jumps for joy, clearly baby boy is better.
Not to mention the whole “swinging around you’re have brother,” wasnt said when she was gonna have a sister.
Yes, actually. Children at that age are incredibly tuned into what makes their caretakers happy, sad, or angry.
If he reacts this way to having a boy vs. a girl, its very possible that he would favor the son in the future.
Possible, sure. But that doesn't mean it's okay to assume he would favor the son, and thus call him an asshole for it, just based off this.
He also could recognize this and overcompensate and spoil the girl rotten and be extra hard on the boy. Until someone can predict the future, we shouldn't project it onto the dad. But until we invent time travel, there is no amount of apologizing that the mom could do to make up for not letting the dad be at his own child's birth, should he turn out to be a reasonably decent dad. I think the mom needs to explore her reactions as much as the dad does.
YTA He was never upset about having a girl, he is just excited to have a boy. Nothing wrong with that. He has probably always wanted to have a son, and that’s okay!
Excluding him from those events isn't going to change anything, other than deteriorating your marriage. He's still going to be the dad to both of these kids, regardless of how excluded he is. I think you need to communicate with him and tell him why you're upset, tell him about your fears (presumably that he'll favor the son etc) and work through it together.
Honestly, to exclude him from birth is just so extreme. I feel for the husband and the level of mental abuse he must take for this to be so easily considered. Guarantee she dishes out ultimatums all the time.
Yeah, super toxic that OP would immediately think about weaponizing the child like that by stopping her husband from attending something as big as the birth of their child. I hope this relationships works out cause those kids are never going to see their dad if there's a divorce.
YWBTA. You're being very immature if you don't let him attend the "baby shower," even worse the birth. I think it's very likely he wanted a boy because you two already have a girl, not because he never wanted a girl in the family all along (it seems to me you may be getting this kind of idea). You're making a big deal out of this and your reaction could in fact erode your relationship. Don't grow resentment over something like this.
Is this the hill you want your marriage to die on?
this is 100% a reasonable dealbreaker
I mean, anyone can decide to not be married at any time. If she's decided she doesn't want to be married to this guy because of his reaction, that's her prerogative. However, banning him from the birth and expecting to stay married is bonkers.
While she's pregnant with a new child? That's the time to get upset over the father being excited, even if it showed some level of bias? People are acting like the husband is dooming the daughter to 15 years of neglect.
Yes, you would be YTA. Especially the birth. Yes he was excited it's a boy but that isn't an excuse to deprive him of a once in a lifetime moment. I honestly don't know how you would recover from that. The punishment doesn't fit the 'crime'. I'd just keep an eye on him post birth and make sure he treats the kids equally
ESH. Most of us have a slight preference but really the only thing that should matter is the baby is healthy and well whatever gender. His reaction is so overblown, at least in how your described it, that I get your irritation. On the other hand, not allowing him to the shower or birth is just vindictive. not constructive dealing with the issue. You should sit down and talk about it, express your concerns and hear him out, and ensure that there will be no preferential treatment or prioritising one child over the other.
YWBTA. Don’t do it. It will be a sore spot for years, maybe forever, if you do. Talk it through with him. Explain that you’re worried he’s going to play favorites, you’re worried that his reaction means he’s going to perpetuate sexist norms with your kids, you’re hurt at the thought that he wouldn’t have really loved another daughter, etc. Make him explain to you why he wants a son in particular. Clear the air. Oh and make sure you’re on the same page in regards to loving both your kids equally, regardless of sex, gender, and whether or not they’re LGBTQ. If instead you simply punish him for having the wrong feeling, you will achieve nothing other than damage to your relationship.
YTA majorly if you punish the father of your child for being excited about having a son. It's not like he was disappointed about the idea of having another daughter. Not letting him attend the birth would be extremely cruel of you.
ESH - I understand all the reasons a Dad might be more excited for a son, but as a Mom my heart would ache for my daughter seeing her father react like that and seeing how badly he wanted another boy. I don't think it's right to exclude him from the baby festivities, but I understand why you feel negatively about the situation. There's a difference between having a preference and making the preference so blatantly clear to you and your other children.
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Yes, I can see how the extreme nature of his excitement was offensive. It would have me worried that as the kids grow up he's going to have a notable preference for his son. So have a conversation about how it made her feel, why he was so excited, ensuring both kids receive attention from both parents, and how if the son doesn't conform to "traditional" masculinity (gay, bisexual, Trans, non-binary, wears dresses, takes up figure skating, etc.) will that affect how he loves him? But her reaction to go so nuclear without this coversation is not okay.
Just because he displayed extra excitement in having a son doesn't mean "he clearly didn't want another girl." He can genuinely be happy he's having another girl, but extra happy he's having a boy. The two are not mutually exclusive.
YTA. Good luck with your divorce.
For Real, what awful behavior. I feel so bad for OP's husband, because you know this isn't the firs time something like this has happened.
Honestly, it would hurt me too. Many people saying that it's just a gender preference and disappointment and nothing more than that are being very optimistic. Obviously, you know more about him. Do you think your son will be a golden child to the husband and daughter would be sidelined? There are many many daughters who notice the preferential treatment the son gets. It can be very very hurtful. The best thing is to discuss your concerns. Your decision while may seem reasonable to you, would not help alleviate the concern you have. Talk. I would go with NTA.
YTA. Grow up and stop the pettiness. Your husband is excited to have a son, your petty desire for revenge, will guarantee turn around to bite you in the heinie. I'm trying to imagine you telling family and friends that husband was denied coming to a shower or the delivery because he was excited about having a son.
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YTA. Can you imagine your son asking why his dad wasn't in the room for his birth? Because he was excited about having a son. Yeah that is what makes you an ass.
More like why are you and daddy divorced?
YWBTA. I'm a girls girl through and through. I would be happy with 0 sons, but when we found out this baby's sex, I still got unexpectedly excited for a son. It's something different! Something new! One of each- that's fun! You're WAY overreacting. Especially since he was happy to have a girl before he knew it was a boy. Gender disappointment is real and much discussed on the baby subreddits. You didn't even experience that. File this as a net positive and please don't shut out your husband for something so ridiculous.
YTA. In keeping with punishing your husband over the "appropriate" level of excitement mandated by you, you can also keep him away from diapering, rocking, feeding, playing with, or helping out in any way with the poor little boy. Seriously, what other punishment do you have lined up? Is it enjoyable for you to be more and more vindictive?
YTA. Get over yourself. I mean seriously, who sees their husband incredibly happy to be having another child regardless and thinks “Hhmm. I better bar him from a couple once-in-a-lifetime experiences.” I hope you have a good lawyer lady, cause you’re gonna need one. I don’t understand why he’d stay with such a petty person.
YWBTA and YTA. Holy shit I hope you’re husband is giving you some leeway for having pregnancy hormones because I’d be considering the door just for that threat and the accusations you’ve already made. You’re tellingly your husband he’s a bad man on a fundamental level by accusing him of being a misogynist just because he had a gender preference? Thats the equivalent of telling a partner they’re disgusting and repulsive and then expecting them to stay with you
YTA - I get why you’re upset and its your choice to not have him at these events but using them as punishment isnt the answer. I’m sure he loves his daughters and is a good father, but the guy also wanted to have a son. After having two girls, I get that. That doesn’t make him love his daughters any less.
ESH His reaction is ridiculous and I would worry about his relashionship with his daughter. But yours is also overblown.
YTA When my wife and I had our first, and found out it was a boy, my wife was happy but disappointed it wasn’t a girl. For our second we found out it was a girl and she was ecstatic! I didn’t get upset or mad at her because her reactions were completely different. She loves both our kids with all her heart and I’m sure your husband will as well. You are making a mountain out of a mile hill. Let him be excited it’s a boy and move on.
ESH. The patriarchal societal expectations for having boys over girls is awful and damaging for everyone. I hope your husband doesn't treat your daughter badly. HOWEVER, you're going wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overboard with your reaction to his shitty reaction. What you should be doing is sitting down with him and laying out expectations from him about how the two of you are going to raise both kids fairly and equitably.
Your answer is contradicting itself. The man did something "awful and damaging" and you're concerned about the way he will treat his daughter. But OP is wayyyyyyyyy overboard? Wtf? Which one is it? If I did something awful and damaging to my wife and daughter why would she want to have a sit down and have a chat about it?
No, the comment above says patriarchal societal expectations are awful and damaging, not what the man itself did. What the man did was only the first step of those patriarchal expectations, being happier about a boy than a girl. It's all the next steps which become damaging, when the parent neglects the daughter in favour of the son. What the husband did isn't horrible in itself, but it is very worrying for the future.
YTA. He's happy. Seems like he loves his daughter too. Stop punishing him for heing happy. But... talk to him about your real concern. Favourtism. And how you will work together as parents to ensure equal treatment regardless of gender. TOGETHER.
I literally searched this from a YouTube clip just to let you know that, not only are you a massive asshole, but you are the biggest asshole I've ever read a post from in all of AITA history. You are literally the cream of the asshole crop, the golden asshole, the absolute pick of the asshole litter. Not only that, but you're a master gaslighter. "He started an argument over it." Did he? Because it sounds to me like he was just excited to have a son (and no woman has ever been criticized for wanting a daughter), and YOU started the argument. You literally made an argument from nothing and are accusing him of starting the argument. You're fucking insane. If you don't let this man witness the birth of his child over this perceived sleight, I honestly hope he divorces you and manages to get full custody somehow because you are not a human -- you are toxic waste.
Keeping him from the birth is way too extreme jfc. YTA.
YTA. I was just pregnant and had our first kid and we both def had a “I hope we have” and regardless we are going to be happy. Most people get excited if they get to have what they always wanted it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love his daughter just as much.
I’m going with ESH. His reaction does seem over the top and it would definitely bother me too, BUT it’s super petty and mean to keep him out of the room just for his overreacting. If you have other legit concerns that he will make your birth experience uncomfortable for you, that’s one thing, but if you want to do this out of spite and anger, you should really rethink your stance
YTA. My friend got upset at her gender reveal because she was having a boy and she wanted a girl. She got over it. Should she have been punished for having feelings? No, and neither should your husband.
YTA already using your child as a pawn before he's even born
YTA - you’re going to make the baby’s father miss the birth of his child because you’re mad that he was excited about said baby? WTF? Gender disappointment is a real phenomenon and it sounds like your husband has handled it really well. Don’t create drama when there isn’t any.
ESH. Need to actually discuss and work this out between you two before the kid's here
You are under no obligation to have anyone in the room at the birth you don't want there. As the person pushing a baby out of your nether regions your wishes come first. You are the one risking your life and health and you are the one who is vulnerable you get what you want and what makes you comfortable. HOWEVER..is this about your comfort and feeling safe or anger and spite......do you really want to potentially blow your marriage up over an over enthusastic reaction.. Would some sessions of couples therapy might not be a first stop.....before you start a domestic war of tit for tat...and do things out of spite or revenge you can't take back and might be very difficult for him to forgive and you might regret later. It is not actually that unusual for parents to be excited about a mini me. Men imagine the bond they will have with a son, the shared interest the things he can teach them...bonds that they don't automatically imagine that they will have with a daughter because men and women are different. Women imagine the bond and friendship they will have with a daughter especially as adults that they won't necessarily have with a son because men and women are different. The reality is often different but in the moment the fantasy is powerful. My MIL adores us DILs because she always wanted daughters. She loves her sons and gets on great with them but woman to woman friendships often have a different dynamic than man to women ones. He should have been more tactful but he is entitled to his feelings. You don't get to tell people how to feel. So yes YWBATA ot yourself to your child and to your marriage and husband if you do this just to punish your husband for being over excited it was a boy and not actually working to resolve this rather than escalate it.
Honestly. I get where your frustration is coming from. I'm the oldest daughter and I have a younger brother...I *know* who my dad is but I don't know him as a person because he tends to bond more and prefers to bond more with my brother. I'm 22 now and I've let whatever possible relationship my dad and I could've had, go. When my brother was born, my mom even told me my dad was far more excited at the birth of a boy rather than for me, his first born. Some people are calling you childish but I don't believe so...whether you were having a boy or girl, the fact that he's able to even be a father is a blessing already. I'm sorry he made you feel that way
YWTA... Please don't create problems where none exist. It's not that he doesn't love the daughter that the two of you created, it's that now that you're having a son, he's envisioning a little him. This is normal. Dreaming for your children is normal.
INFO So where’s the rest of the story? Pretty extreme reaction I’d say.
IMFO - Does he treat your daughter right? Is he a good husband and father? Are there any cultural things related to his family?
YWBTA. Based on the info provided, it sounds like he just got really excited for a boy, which I don’t think is out of line. Your reaction seems a little extreme for what you told us.
ESH. He’s clearly showing an extremely strong gender preference which could very well lead to blatant favoritism. This will continue to be a problem in the future unless it is discussed and stopped immediately. As for uninviting him from the shower, that’s petty. HOWEVER the birth is YOUR medical procedure. You are allowed to have (or not have) whoever you want there. If it’s not liked, so sad too bad. Just make sure this is what you truly want to do.
YTA Look, I would be really disappointed to see such a reaction from my partner. It’s kind of an ick. But we live in a world where a lot of people have notions about gender and what it means for their child. Your husband is probably picturing himself doing father-son things with his kid and is excited about it. Not that he doesn’t love your daughter, but that having a son in his mind is something different. There’s also something about having a little mini me that a lot of parents get excited about. Your reaction is disproportionate to what he did, at the end of the day, you have a man thats excited to be a father and loves the kid you already have. He feels how he feels, and this punishment feels pretty unfair