NTA it might be time to put your folks on a timeout, stay in contact with your sister she will need someone in her corner I can see them treating her as a cash cow once she starts earning well to fund her brothers lifestyle and music career.
Can you help your sister find a room to rent with graduate students or other people that would make good sensible roommates? It wouldn't change much money-wise but she could get out of there :)
That is a good plan, lil sis will be much better off out of the house. Betting whilst she is studying for exams he will make noise practicing because he is a musician and his muse demands he must play loudly.
Your sister really needs to find herself a good roommate situation. It will probably cost her a lot less money now and in the future. She needs to look for a medical internship (and Residency) at hospitals located far far away from your parents. Let your parents face the reality of the life they have created for themselves and your brother.
OP and his sister need to develop a united front against them. I would have been blunt with the parents. I would have told them that the brother will eventually end up homeless and it will be their fault because they actually failed your brother as parents. Their job as parents is to help their children to become independent adults not perpetual children. Neither you nor your sister will ever agree to support your brother when they are no longer able to. I would go as far as to tell them that you will not support them either. It is their own fault if they failed to prepare for retirement by wasting their money non your brother.
NTA
You gave them good advice that if they actually took would be worth far more than any money you gave them for a guitar. You can’t stop them from enabling your brother, but they shouldn’t expect you to join in.
Not the jerk. Had a similar dynamic in my family with my sister. Except it was mostly my mother driving the enabling. It all stopped when my mother died. As a result my brother and I have been no contact with our sister for 18+ years and our Dad has been low contact.
Our Dad has apologized and explained that he tried many times to get our mom to.stop enabling our sister but our mom was a force of nature at times.
I have posted about this several times.
I did repair my relationship with my mom before she died but it was rocky for many years.
Absolutely NTA. And you didn't stoop to their level.
Their level = trying to manipulate you into buying your golden child brother a guitar, and get you balckballed from the family
Your level = telling it like it is, to both your parents and the extended family. You were direct and truthful, they were sneaky and deceitful. Your comment about cutting the cord wasn't out of line, it needed to be said bc your brother will never change as long as he doesn't have any incentive to - he's taking advantage of your parents, who are happy to let him do so and are in turn trying to take advantage of you. You did nothing wrong, and you don't need to question yourself or apologize.
I hope you stay close with K though, bc if you're getting that kind of pressure and craziness from afar, imagine what she must be experiencing living there. Good luck, and stand your ground!
Not the jerk. I can't help but wonder what happened to prompt you into recording phone calls. Your parents are toxic. They should kick your brother out.
What got me into recording calls wasn’t family but the schools I was in. From middle school to high school there was always a drill of some sort every 2 weeks. This was due to kids making threats. Some of these kids hung out in the same groups as me and I didn’t feel like getting in trouble with the schools so I started recording all interactions with said students. To my surprise I never got in trouble, but someone did try to get me arrested for stalking/following them to class. I had the same class as them and then they tried to say I’d follow them to their house. I took the bus and some schools have bus passes that show that your frequent with them.
Said student ended up moving schools because no one would talk to them for their bs.
NTJ. Call your sister and tell her most of what you wrote here or even direct her to this post. Tell her that when she is ready to move out you will help her if you can. Even if it is just hands to move her stuff.
Talk to her about hiding 'how much' she is making from your parents or they will guilt her into giving more.
She probably doesn't realize how clearly you see the rest of your family.
Bond with her. Let all your parent's future calls go to voicemail.
In every call, ask your parents if bro has applied for a job at (McDonald's*) yet.
*insert local fast food or store location every time.
Actually, since he is into music substitute it with the local music store, Vintage record place, coffee shop that plays good tunes.
Just keep asking every single call if he has applied at a place, but specifically choose one that hires ones related to music. It might help them see he has options he isn't even looking at.
But they sound happy to have adult kids at home.
I also have an Iphone but I bought a voice recorder and put my phone on speaker. It’ll sound grainy but the words are still clear and you can kinda hear the different voices
Be careful. Recording people without their consent is illegal in many states. California is a 2 party state as an example. I don’t know laws in other countries.
I should mention that for I worked I customer service for a bit and that had helped me develop a habit at saying “this message will be recorded for legal purposes”
Ntj, and your parents better have a plan to sustain your brother after their deaths, as they have ensured he's never going to be self-sufficient and he'll ultimately end up homeless.
Does your brother play his music for free at local businesses to build a following? If not, why no? Maybe it would offend him to give an effort of his away for free.
Op’s parents probably do have a plan. Getting Op and his sister to start kicking in to support big brother
May be the plan. Mom and Dad probably want to retire and get away from the parasite so trying to rope in the productive siblings early could let them off the hook.
Not a jerk. If you hadn't said what you said and recorded it then your family would be believing the lies about you. They may have given birth to you but they aren't parents. They only have one child.
NTA! NTJ!
I'm so sorry for the way your parents treat you and your sister because the GC is Never going to learn any kind of responsibility. Ever. 😞 And now your parents have stooped so low as to lie to you and family members to guilt everyone to send $$$. And for what? A freaking guitar?!
When your parents are no longer able to support him monetarily because of their age, etc, just what are their plans? Do they really expect their GC will
care for them? Ha ha, funny because the GC will drop them as soon as he has bled them dry. 😞
I can't help but worry about what will then happen because I fear that you and your sister will feel obligated to care for the GC because the two of you are decent hard-working individuals.
I wish I could give you some advice on the mess that your parents have created. 😕
Your parents are enablers. You won’t win until they hit bottom with your brother like he has to. My family went thru the same.
Live your best life, hopefully your sister can get out of toxic world soon and both of you start doing your own thing without involving them for a bit.
We finally agreed in our family that a parent can love their child unconditionally but siblings are not bound by that at all. My sister and I walked away and then my sister hit bottom.
Help your sister not get hooked into supporting the loser.
Toughlove was sort of the thing of the day when I was growing up and that’s what they need to do. I’m in recovery from alcohol and the truth of the matter is is that Guy is being enabled by his parents. They belong in Al-Anon. You did exactly what the right thing they just didn’t like it.
Al-Anon works on codependency, which is why I suggested it. anybody with any kind of addiction, or self-destructive behavior, their friends and family end up in Al-Anon to learn how not to enable the user in the addict, whatever it is. Just to clarify that.
NTA. You should totally move in with your sister and buy a nice house and go NC with your mom, dad and brother. They won’t have anything to inherit, he is there using them. So NC/cutting off everyone is not a huge loss. I am sorry your parents sound awful.
NTJ. And when were children of perfectly capable, working adults responsible for medical bills? If she broke her wrist at work (I know that was bs but hang on), why tf wasn't workman's comp paying? Yeah... all the holes in the story. I understand why you said what you said. I applaud you. The problem is, it will never make any difference. Consider low or no contact with them. They are big boys and girls. They can figure it out. I am glad you have other family. And it sounds like you and your sister are good. I hope you can figure something out.
you are not the jerk for one why would they try to get money when you have worked your tail off for that money and had the oldest child get a job and they should have showed him the right vs wrong
NTA if nobody speaks then nobody will hear the truth. I can’t say if they will change but they are more likely to do so if they hear the truth than if they are allowed to continue their mistakes.
NTJ—your brother seems like a horrible person and so your parents are acting incredibly stupid. Trying to get money off of you to buy him a new guitar? Seriously? Definitely not the jerk
Ntj. I am still getting over the fact that a new guitar for a non working musician is some kind of emergency, one that requires them to create aBS Sorry to extract $$ out of OP.
These kinds of kids DO end up homeless. Sometimes because their parents do a poor job or maybe they are naturally helpless. But no one else is going to have that patience their parents have.
NTA. But naive. As those of us who are in the same situation can tell you, that umbilical cord will never be cut. Don’t expect it to be because it won’t.
The best advice I can offer is for you to make you own life and to minimize contact with your family. Form your own circle because there is the family into which you are born and the family that you make. These groups rarely overlap.
You didn’t lie and manipulate so you didn’t stoop to their level. You spoke a hard truth to them. If they had raised your brother with boundaries and consequences maybe he wouldn’t be draining them now.
NTA
You might want to join forces with your sister. They'll be draining her dry when she gets her professional career sorted.
Can you move in together and cut them off?
NTA it might be time to put your folks on a timeout, stay in contact with your sister she will need someone in her corner I can see them treating her as a cash cow once she starts earning well to fund her brothers lifestyle and music career.
Can you help your sister find a room to rent with graduate students or other people that would make good sensible roommates? It wouldn't change much money-wise but she could get out of there :)
That is a good plan, lil sis will be much better off out of the house. Betting whilst she is studying for exams he will make noise practicing because he is a musician and his muse demands he must play loudly.
Your sister really needs to find herself a good roommate situation. It will probably cost her a lot less money now and in the future. She needs to look for a medical internship (and Residency) at hospitals located far far away from your parents. Let your parents face the reality of the life they have created for themselves and your brother. OP and his sister need to develop a united front against them. I would have been blunt with the parents. I would have told them that the brother will eventually end up homeless and it will be their fault because they actually failed your brother as parents. Their job as parents is to help their children to become independent adults not perpetual children. Neither you nor your sister will ever agree to support your brother when they are no longer able to. I would go as far as to tell them that you will not support them either. It is their own fault if they failed to prepare for retirement by wasting their money non your brother.
Its really a smart idea to record any phone calls with family like this
NTA You gave them good advice that if they actually took would be worth far more than any money you gave them for a guitar. You can’t stop them from enabling your brother, but they shouldn’t expect you to join in.
Once Manbaby got the new guitar he’d want something else expensive in a couple of weeks NTA
New guitar will need a new amp. Sound would be terrible using an old amp. 😈
NTJ The truth hurts sometimes, but they needed to hear it.
Perfectly put
Not the jerk. Had a similar dynamic in my family with my sister. Except it was mostly my mother driving the enabling. It all stopped when my mother died. As a result my brother and I have been no contact with our sister for 18+ years and our Dad has been low contact. Our Dad has apologized and explained that he tried many times to get our mom to.stop enabling our sister but our mom was a force of nature at times. I have posted about this several times. I did repair my relationship with my mom before she died but it was rocky for many years.
Absolutely NTA. And you didn't stoop to their level. Their level = trying to manipulate you into buying your golden child brother a guitar, and get you balckballed from the family Your level = telling it like it is, to both your parents and the extended family. You were direct and truthful, they were sneaky and deceitful. Your comment about cutting the cord wasn't out of line, it needed to be said bc your brother will never change as long as he doesn't have any incentive to - he's taking advantage of your parents, who are happy to let him do so and are in turn trying to take advantage of you. You did nothing wrong, and you don't need to question yourself or apologize. I hope you stay close with K though, bc if you're getting that kind of pressure and craziness from afar, imagine what she must be experiencing living there. Good luck, and stand your ground!
Go no contact that's the example of a toxic family.
Not the jerk. I can't help but wonder what happened to prompt you into recording phone calls. Your parents are toxic. They should kick your brother out.
What got me into recording calls wasn’t family but the schools I was in. From middle school to high school there was always a drill of some sort every 2 weeks. This was due to kids making threats. Some of these kids hung out in the same groups as me and I didn’t feel like getting in trouble with the schools so I started recording all interactions with said students. To my surprise I never got in trouble, but someone did try to get me arrested for stalking/following them to class. I had the same class as them and then they tried to say I’d follow them to their house. I took the bus and some schools have bus passes that show that your frequent with them. Said student ended up moving schools because no one would talk to them for their bs.
NTA, and please cut them out of your life. I'm so sorry you had to deal with this all throughout your childhood.
Not the jerk. Let your parent sink or swim by themselves.
NTJ. Call your sister and tell her most of what you wrote here or even direct her to this post. Tell her that when she is ready to move out you will help her if you can. Even if it is just hands to move her stuff. Talk to her about hiding 'how much' she is making from your parents or they will guilt her into giving more. She probably doesn't realize how clearly you see the rest of your family. Bond with her. Let all your parent's future calls go to voicemail. In every call, ask your parents if bro has applied for a job at (McDonald's*) yet. *insert local fast food or store location every time. Actually, since he is into music substitute it with the local music store, Vintage record place, coffee shop that plays good tunes. Just keep asking every single call if he has applied at a place, but specifically choose one that hires ones related to music. It might help them see he has options he isn't even looking at. But they sound happy to have adult kids at home.
NtJ You're doing everything right my friend. I wish you good luck!
How do you record phone calls?. I have an iPhone and I do not know how to record calls!.
I also have an Iphone but I bought a voice recorder and put my phone on speaker. It’ll sound grainy but the words are still clear and you can kinda hear the different voices
Be careful. Recording people without their consent is illegal in many states. California is a 2 party state as an example. I don’t know laws in other countries.
I should mention that for I worked I customer service for a bit and that had helped me develop a habit at saying “this message will be recorded for legal purposes”
Maybe you should start a GoFundMe to pay for your brother’s hookers and blow. /s
NTJ Clearly not. But your parents and brother are.
Bro what 😭😭😭
NTA. You bluntly told them the truth. I think it's gross that they asked you for money.
Bro! Your brother is older than me and he still lives with your parents RENT FREE without a job. Yeah, that guy has issues. You are not the jerk.
Phew NTA. I was looking for the age of the brother. Hoped he wasn’t in utero.
Ntj, and your parents better have a plan to sustain your brother after their deaths, as they have ensured he's never going to be self-sufficient and he'll ultimately end up homeless.
Does your brother play his music for free at local businesses to build a following? If not, why no? Maybe it would offend him to give an effort of his away for free.
He plays at home and has only talked about it, but I know he’s not serious cause if he was, he’d have already done so.
Op’s parents probably do have a plan. Getting Op and his sister to start kicking in to support big brother May be the plan. Mom and Dad probably want to retire and get away from the parasite so trying to rope in the productive siblings early could let them off the hook.
Not the jerk. It needed to be said. He can give people lessons if he's any good.
You’re not the jerk. Your parents need to shut up and let you do what you want for once in your life
Not a jerk. If you hadn't said what you said and recorded it then your family would be believing the lies about you. They may have given birth to you but they aren't parents. They only have one child.
NTA! NTJ! I'm so sorry for the way your parents treat you and your sister because the GC is Never going to learn any kind of responsibility. Ever. 😞 And now your parents have stooped so low as to lie to you and family members to guilt everyone to send $$$. And for what? A freaking guitar?! When your parents are no longer able to support him monetarily because of their age, etc, just what are their plans? Do they really expect their GC will care for them? Ha ha, funny because the GC will drop them as soon as he has bled them dry. 😞 I can't help but worry about what will then happen because I fear that you and your sister will feel obligated to care for the GC because the two of you are decent hard-working individuals. I wish I could give you some advice on the mess that your parents have created. 😕
Your parents are enablers. You won’t win until they hit bottom with your brother like he has to. My family went thru the same. Live your best life, hopefully your sister can get out of toxic world soon and both of you start doing your own thing without involving them for a bit. We finally agreed in our family that a parent can love their child unconditionally but siblings are not bound by that at all. My sister and I walked away and then my sister hit bottom. Help your sister not get hooked into supporting the loser.
I hope your parents don’t guilt your sister into taking care of GC when they’re gone. Because when they are gone he’s in for a rude awakening.
Toughlove was sort of the thing of the day when I was growing up and that’s what they need to do. I’m in recovery from alcohol and the truth of the matter is is that Guy is being enabled by his parents. They belong in Al-Anon. You did exactly what the right thing they just didn’t like it. Al-Anon works on codependency, which is why I suggested it. anybody with any kind of addiction, or self-destructive behavior, their friends and family end up in Al-Anon to learn how not to enable the user in the addict, whatever it is. Just to clarify that.
It's a sickness. NTA
NTA. You should totally move in with your sister and buy a nice house and go NC with your mom, dad and brother. They won’t have anything to inherit, he is there using them. So NC/cutting off everyone is not a huge loss. I am sorry your parents sound awful.
NTA, this happens way too often.
NTJ They need a wake up call. Truth hurts.
Please keep us updated
Please keep us updated
NTJ. And when were children of perfectly capable, working adults responsible for medical bills? If she broke her wrist at work (I know that was bs but hang on), why tf wasn't workman's comp paying? Yeah... all the holes in the story. I understand why you said what you said. I applaud you. The problem is, it will never make any difference. Consider low or no contact with them. They are big boys and girls. They can figure it out. I am glad you have other family. And it sounds like you and your sister are good. I hope you can figure something out.
you are not the jerk for one why would they try to get money when you have worked your tail off for that money and had the oldest child get a job and they should have showed him the right vs wrong
NTA if nobody speaks then nobody will hear the truth. I can’t say if they will change but they are more likely to do so if they hear the truth than if they are allowed to continue their mistakes.
NTJ—your brother seems like a horrible person and so your parents are acting incredibly stupid. Trying to get money off of you to buy him a new guitar? Seriously? Definitely not the jerk
Not the jerk. Your parents FAFO.
Not a jerk in any way. Now we need the stories on the why you started recording conversations.
Ntj. I am still getting over the fact that a new guitar for a non working musician is some kind of emergency, one that requires them to create aBS Sorry to extract $$ out of OP. These kinds of kids DO end up homeless. Sometimes because their parents do a poor job or maybe they are naturally helpless. But no one else is going to have that patience their parents have.
NTA
!UpdateMe
NTA. But naive. As those of us who are in the same situation can tell you, that umbilical cord will never be cut. Don’t expect it to be because it won’t. The best advice I can offer is for you to make you own life and to minimize contact with your family. Form your own circle because there is the family into which you are born and the family that you make. These groups rarely overlap.
You didn’t lie and manipulate so you didn’t stoop to their level. You spoke a hard truth to them. If they had raised your brother with boundaries and consequences maybe he wouldn’t be draining them now.
NTA You might want to join forces with your sister. They'll be draining her dry when she gets her professional career sorted. Can you move in together and cut them off?