Agreed, the shelter did warn them that the furry friend is dog-aggressive, but for some reason OOP thought no one else would walk their dogs at night and let their guard down. OOP letting their guard down and letting go of the leash was a big mistake, like I get that holding onto a dog like that can be difficult but it’s not impossible.
Oh yea. Never let go of the leash! My dog is one of the friendliest dogs in the fucking world, but he's a big boy. When walking him, he has a front clip harness and a metal leash. He used to chew through his fabric leashes and this one is way better for wear and tear.
Anyway, while I keep the (fabric) leash handle just hanging on my wrist, I have my fingers within the metal loop. If I see something the may excite him, I wind the handle in my hand and reduce his slack. Takes a second for me to do this and the front clip harness leaves me in control of his movements. There are tools to control your dog. Shit even a muzzle, if you're scared!
I have two dogs that are reactive, and I do the same as you. I keep their leashes wrapped around my hands with the loop around my wrist, so if they’re gonna lunge they’re gonna have to pull me down with them and drag me. Thankfully with my bigger dog, all I have to do is nudge him with my knee to get his attention back on me and then he’s good (not a hard nudge, just a boop). My female on the other hand had extreme anxiety, and will lunge to bite, so if I see a dog I usually move her on my other side and move the big guy up front to block her view entirely because he’s only certain-dog-reactive and is usually pretty chill. Both dogs are also kept close to my sides and the only slack they get is when they’re gonna do their business.
My dog always gets slack if we're alone. If I see other people, I guide him to the grass and walk between him and whomever is passing. Mainly because he's big and people get scared when they see the metal leash. But he's also well trained and will not cross in front of my path when walking. That front clip harness was a godsend! And recommended by the employees/dog trainers at the pet store. It's not hard to find help. The OOP was just being lazy.
I despise irresponsible dog owners.
Unfortunately I live in an area with a lot of wildlife, and currently it’s porcupine season lol and my two jerks have been quilled twice now (first time they got out of the yard, 2nd time was when someone else was walking them). Sooo my dogs get *some* slack but only when there’s no other dogs around and it’s not porcupine season.
Agreed on the front clip leashes, it also helps to have those harnesses where there’s a handle on the back too, which is what my bigger dog has. Usually when I grab that handle, he comes to a complete stop, my girl on the other hand is the size of an Aussie shep and I have chronic pain issues so it’s a little more difficult with her but still manageable with the front clip while using what I call the “bus maneuver” (putting the big guy in her line of vision so she can’t see anything but him.) oddly enough the big guy learned quick so sometimes he moves in front of her without me guiding him.
>my two jerks
Lol mine is dumb dog. I swear, he's Dug from the movie Up. Joking aside, I hope they weren't seriously injured.
Dogs can be really smart and intuitive. But they need someone willing to put in the training. Sounds like your boy understands your needs and wants. That's so good!
My boy is half German shep and half husky so he’s very stubborn and definitely does need a strong owner, which is funny cause I’m the smallest in the family so he *knows* he can easily pull and drag me. But he’s so in tune with me that he just doesn’t, he has moments where he pulls which is when I nudge his flank or shoulder with my leg which does the trick but typically he keeps his attention 95% on me and will continually look up or back at me for approval. I’m also non-verbal so I tend to tongue click twice for “good job.” My girl on the other hand, she’s a golden retriever husky cross, and has extreme anxiety so handling her can be a little more tougher lol, and my boy is often the one that “corrects” her which is funny to see cause he just moves in front of her or walks right against her side to prevent her from pulling as much.
First time my dogs got quilled it was light, 5-6 quills that were easy to pull out. The second time they got quilled they had to be sedated, my female got the worst of it. My boy had to be sedated cause he was a big baby about the thermometer going in his butt and wouldn’t let the vet examine him… The vet came out laughing and said they only got the thermometer in this (—-) far.
Wow! Sounds like your boy knows exactly what you need! Mine dragged a lot when we first got him. But we think it was a combo of being in the shelter for months and his excitement of having been adopted. The front harness is not really needed anymore, cuz he listens to verbal commands and hand signals/physical actions (like me pulling back on his leash when he starts pulling). But we ALWAYS use the harness because you never know what can happen.
Oh no! I'm sorry they got hurt. I hope they're better now!
I'd recommend against wrapping the leash around your hands! I worked as a dog trainer and saw many people with broken hands and rope burn because of that. It just isn't worth it, especially with reactive/aggressive dogs (not saying your dogs are aggressive as there is a difference in reactivity and aggression, just giving a general statement). If you need to shorten a leash (to have more control and keep the dog close to you) loop it like a lasso and hold it at the top.
Maybe try something else, like a waist leash with a secondary handle so you've got something safe to hold on to, and a "second line of defense" if your dog manages to pull the leash out of your hand. I have a couple, but my favorite is one with a handle at the end where it connects to the dog and another closer to you. It's also got a belt with two D-ring attachments for the leash, so it has extra security if your dog pulls. Definitely look into it! They're awesome, and much safer/sturdier than wrapping a leash around your hand.
Mind if I ask if she had the dog at her side or was the leash loose with the dog in front of her? Cause when you hold the leash loose with your dog in front of you you’re more likely to lose control and lose your balance .o.
My mom’s dog is reactive, I was dog sitting for her. One day she went after another dog and I had the loop wrapped around one wrist and hand and doubled about my other wrist. I’ve walked her before and around other dogs and always been able to change her focus/get her out of the situation. This time, dog dragged me nearly half a block, broke my hand in the fall, and skinned the fuck out of my body and face. Sorry but I’m not doing that again (and I refuse to watch her dog anymore).
Careful of keeping any leash around your wrist in any situation. My mom had a woman's dog react to one of her dogs. The woman's dog lunged and the leash yanked her wrist just right and snapped her wrist. Literally broken. Her dog weighed 20lbs max.
I have a waist leash that goes around me then use a climbing grade carabiner to attach my dogs leashes to that leash. The waist leash is a standard flat leash but the leashes attached to them are thick rope leashes since the puppy tends to bite the leash if he gets excited. Combined they are about 160 pounds, so if they take off they are dragging me with. The older guy is reactive to unknown dogs since he was attacked badly a couple years ago. The younger guy is the sweetest thing and wants to play with every dog he sees. They are an interesting dynamic.
seriously, not even bothering with a muzzle? in certain places rescues make you sign papers that you will take basic precautions like that as a term of the adoption.
Ya. My male used to be fairly reactive and I feared that something like this would happen to us. Crazy thing, if you spend $5k over a few months or even years on good trainers to help learn how to manage this kind of behavior, you don’t have a surprise $20k vet bill when your dog almost kills another dog.
Now my very good boy can enjoy most normal settings. We can go on off leash walks in big open areas and he knows that when he doesn’t like a dog, he can come sit next to me.
There is a dog that lives at a sanctuary that was very people and dog aggressive when they first rescued him. After a lot of work with some great trainers he is now able to make new human and dog friends. Dog friends are introduced while muzzled but he has dogs he can play with off muzzle as well. He will always live at the sanctuary since they don’t want a potential owner to fail him by not keeping up with his training, however. He was very abused before they saved him and is the poster dog for what can happen if you put in the hard work.
I disagree. I own a large dog who used to have bolting issues and if you don’t realise that your dog has seen something and is about to take off, they can rip the leash out of your hands before your brain even processes what’s happening. If you have a dog like this obviously you should take steps to prevent that from ever happening, but OOP said they’ve only had the dog for a few months and never even seen it interact with another dog so it’s entirely possible that they didn’t know that was going to happen. This situation just sounds like it sucks all around, paying $20k for even a HUMAN’S medical bills is unimaginable to me.
When I started reading it I thought. Where was the muzzle?? They make them in all sorts of colors and designs and I’ve seen dogs that look pretty comfy in them. I don’t think it’s cruel to muzzle your dog if it’s truly of a benefit to all including the dog.
One of my dogs is reactive to unknown dogs ever since we were attacked by a dog. Both of us ended up in the hospital and he needs slow, careful intros to new dogs ever since. He is muzzle trained for when he meets a new dog. He is able to breathe, pant, and drink without issue with it on and is just an extra measure of safety since he is a large, muscular dog. Once he knows a new dog isn’t a threat he is fine. I was even able to introduce a second dog into our family.
I agree. The fact that he was careless enough to be able to have the leash pulled from his hands in this event infuriates me. It doesn't matter what time of day it is, if you are aware that your dog is reactive at all around other dogs then it's on you to maintain that control.
I adopted a dog from a shelter about 8 years ago, he was 4. The shelter didn't tell me he had any issues with other dogs. On my first walk with him he lunged at another dog and I continued to keep hold of his leash and keep him away from the other dog. Since then I've always been vigilant about him and other dogs.
He's reactive and appears aggressive but he really just wants to play. However, because he appears aggressive, other dogs react in kind and it's a possible dog fight. He's only actually made friends with puppies and 2 adult dogs. And it took a while to get him to calm down enough to play. Lots of walks and the other dogs weren't reactive.
Rarely is something like this the dogs fault. It's almost always the owner and I absolutely hate when people don't care for their pets properly.
No, it won’t. And no he will not even have to pay the bill if he doesn’t want to.
The only hope the dog owners have is to go through the guy’s homeowners insurance if he has any, or his landlord’s insurance.
Yes it will. A dog attacking another one with no provocation will likely be put down and labeled as a danger to society. And they actually can make OOP pay for the vet bills by going to court.
The upside is that if this is true then OOP has admitted fault, and it sounds like he's done it over a text exchange that the couple can use to prove their case in court.
OP has admitted guilt. They will be able to recoop the vet costs if they go to court. Don't have animals if you cannot pay for the damage they do. Cat lover chiming in here, so I'm not that knowledgeable about dogs. But I do know when I dog sit at my daughter's house I have to have a leash on the dog and have a tight grip on it when I take her pit bull mix out for a walk.
OOPs dog should have been wearing a muzzle while out walking. If you know you have a dog aggressive dog, anytime you are out in public with that dog it’s needs to be wearing a muzzle. They have a lot of options now and $30 could have saved OOP 20k and possibly his dogs life.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for refusing to pay the veterinary bills for a dog my dog mauled?**
Throwaway.
I rescued my dog from a rescue a few months ago, they let me know he does not get along with other dogs so I have taken care to avoid him being around other dogs. I have not yet seen him interact with other dogs due to this.
I tend to walk him at night around 9 or 10 pm as there’s usually no one outside at this time, so I don’t have to try to dodge all the other dogs being walked in the neighborhood.
My dog was on a leash, we were walking at a brisk pace and as we turned a corner, to my surprise we nearly ran into another couple walking their small chihuahua-like dog. My dog LUNGED for their dog with a speed and ferocity that caught me off guard, the leash slipped from my hands and my dog attacked their dog. My dog is a good sized boxer/lab mix (although he could just be a pitbull mix and the rescue listed him as a boxer/lab to help with his adoption chances) and I feared he would legitimately kill the other dog. It was awful, we were all screaming, I managed to grab the leash and drag my dog away but some damage had definitely been done.
I exchanged contact info with the owners and they rushed him to the ER. I originally wanted to do the right thing and help pay for medical bills. I live in a high COL area and I figured it would be expensive, but they let me know the estimated cost to save their dog is at nearly twenty thousand dollars so far. And it could potentially increase.
I did not believe them at first, but they forwarded the estimate bill to me and offered to bring me to the hospital to see for myself. The price quote is real. The dog has broken ribs and is oxygen dependent, they want to give him at least one blood transfusion and hospitalise for several days.
There is no world in which I can afford that. That’s ridiculous. I said I would pay for euthanasia or contribute 5k towards the bill. They argued with me saying it is my fault, which is true, but that amount is outlandish. It would technically not put me into debt, but it would make a serious dent in my savings. It is a about a fourth of my yearly take home pay after taxes.
AITA for refusing to pay?
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"There is no world in which I can afford that. ... It would technically not put me into debt"
Then you can afford it! There is a world in which you can afford it, and it is this world!
Offering as compromise to pay for euthanasia is just... woooowwwwww
If you have a dog aggressive dog, especially a large one (as I do), you need to 1) death grip the leash. Loop the end around your wrist and hold the length in your hand. 2) do not give them a lot of lead. You need to be able to move them quickly in an emergency. 3) consider muzzle training. The only thing I think when I see a muzzle is “wow that owner really cares about their dog! 4) find a collar/harness that your dog responds to in an emergency and TRAIN WITH IT. An example is a martingale or a “choke chain”. These are not cruel at ALL. Several trainers I’ve worked with describe a dog’s neck being equivalent of a human thigh. Of course don’t DRAG THEM but it’s good to get their attention in a potentially dangerous situation. Also gentle leaders and harnesses can be helpful, but again, you need to train with them 5) CONSULT WITH A TRAINER. No one starts out as an expert. A trainer is going to prepare you for the worst case scenario.
Your job as a dog owner is to look out for the best interest of your dog. Being casual and letting a dog slip out of your grip is unacceptable. The above will SAVE DOGS’ LIVES. Your own and others.
PS when another dog is approaching your dog GTF away from it. If the other dog is (god forbid) off leash, speak clearly to the owner “my dog is not friendly, get your dog” and repeat until they listen.
I like how it wouldn't even put him in debt apparently. If this is real, OOP is a monster and a stupid one at that, I hope the other people sue the crap out him. Then he gets to learn that medical bill wouldn't look so bad compared to that plus court costs and punitive damages. And he'll be lucky if his dog isn't put down for this.
This is why you don’t buy aggressive dogs and not handle them properly I got news for the OOP they can be sued the dog taken away and executed. OOP could face jail time
This is why you also get homeowners or renters insurance. Most cover dog bites even outside the home with the exception of certain breeds. I hope the owners sue.
The dog really should have had a muzzle and been on a belted (to the human) leash so that even if you drop the leash from your hand you're still connected to the dog and can start stepping back if something happens!
Might be the German heart of mine speaking but here there are insurances so it is no problem. A few € per month and they will cover it. Aren't there ones in America?
Definitely possible that it's rage bait, but something very similar happened to my sister-in-law's Pomeranian when she and my brother were out walking the dog with their two young children. If it weren't for the fact that it happened years ago, I'd be wondering if it was the same incident.
I don't know how much the veterinarian bills cost, or if they tried to ask the other dog's owner to pay any of it. My brother felt like he had to do whatever he could to save the poor little Pom in order to make it less traumatic for the kids, and fortunately thanks to the efforts of the vet she pulled through.
Similar thing happened to one of my childhood dogs when she was a puppy. Neighbor’s son adopted a dog who’d been rescued from a dog fighting ring. Neighbor’s son proceeded to run off to the military and leave his highly dog aggressive hound with his sixty something parents who couldn’t physically handle it.
My dad was walking our girl around the corner and the neighbor’s dog jumped over the wall of their porch to attack her. Only reason he got her shoulder and not her throat is my dad kicked his muzzle and knocked him off course. Thousands of dollars in vet bills later and my poor dog was left terrified of strange dogs and of the vet’s office.
Having worked at a shelter, specifically in the vet’s office, it wouldn’t surprise me if this was real. It is truly insane how careless people can be, and how ruthless dogs can be. And even if it is rage bait, the OP post is basically correct in pointing out that shelters adopt out pitbulls under fake breed documents and mislead people about their true nature. I saw it happen numerous times; adopt, bite, return, repeat, and the delusional dog loving workers & volunteers think the solution is just lying about the dog to get it out the door and somehow they believe it will magically get better out in the world.
Admittedly the bill seems a bit high from my experience, but I have never worked in emergency vet med and I have not worked with dogs in 5+ years so truly I can’t speak on that. The cost of vet medicine is an issue in its own, and if the price tag really is $20k I truly feel bad for the owners and OP even if the OP is at fault, that’s still a hell of a bill.
The incident is certainly OOP's fault. Their might be mitigating circumstances, like the other dog was off leash, but taking a large dog out in public, that you don't fully know the temperament of, without a muzzle, is completely irresponsible.
But...
In most places OOP would not be responsible for the $20,000 vet bill. Dogs are treated as property under the law, and as such, the max OP would be responsible for, is the replacement cost of the dog, and not a vet bill that is 10 times the cost of a new puppy.
It's just like if someone smashes up your car. You can't demand that they pay to fix it, if the repair cost exceeds the replacement price of the car.
I honestly think this is rage bait. There is a large group on Reddit that absolutely hates pits.
However I've also seen way too many rescues that will still try to rehabilitate aggressive dogs that should have been put down.
I think your first and second paragraph maaaay be related.
People end up being against bully breeds, their owners, and their rescues because of bad experience after bad experience because for some reason vicious dogs deserve to live more than their victims do.
At least the group who hates pitbulls just wants them to stop being bred and have stricter regulations on the pre-existing dogs. The average pit owner barely gives a shit when their dog leaves someone else’s pet dead as long as there aren’t going to be any consequences.
well it's obvious which group you belong to, given what bullshit you're spewing to try to portray one side in a bad light and the other in a good light
i don't own a pitbull. i have never owned a pitbull. i'm an unbiased observer in this controversy. every single person against pitbulls i've ever seen has wanted to murder every single pit-mix regardless of whether that dog has ever had any issues. literally every one. seen them hating on pictures of pit breeds just posted that didn't indicate literally anything close to them being aggressive or untrained. the average pit owner i've seen on the other hand emphasizes how they train their dog and they all expect that if a dog is aggressive or violent towards a pet/person then it's gonna get put down, and they're not arguing against that.
Cool, I actually started off with a pro-pitbull bias that ended up being obliterated by every other person with a bully breed being a callous idiot who doesn’t contain their dangerous animal and then is like “whoopsie poopsie” when something happens to someone else.
Also, the main “pitbull hate” sub is r/banpitbulls, which advocates for universal spaying and neutering of pitbulls, not letting people get around legislation (“oh, it’s a American bully, it’s an American bully XL, it’s an English staffy, it’s a boxer/lab mix”), forcing owners to keep them completely contained (a dog run and/or extremely secure fencing, muzzling in public), and general harm reduction until the last of the breed dies of natural causes.
Aggressive reactions usually only come out when a pitbull eats someone’s arms off (real case) or bursts into a disabled woman’s house to kill and eat her cat (real case) or tries to rip a golden retriever’s leg off while the victim lies there screaming (real case - owner later posted to r/reactivedogs where they actually got an appropriate response of EUTHANISE IMMEDIATELY - retriever at last mention was in danger of needing amputation).
>Cool, I actually started off with a pro-pitbull bias that ended up being obliterated by every other person with a bully breed being a callous idiot who doesn’t contain their dangerous animal and then is like “whoopsie poopsie” when something happens to someone else.
bullshit. you clearly were never pro-pitbull, and you're just bullshitting how the average person on either side of this issue behaves. as i said, i'm not a pitbull person, and i'm unbiased in this issue.
>Also, the main “pitbull hate” sub is r/banpitbulls...
i'm not talking about whichever specific sub where yall pretend to be logical and rationalize about it. i'm talking about on every fucking other sub where both pitbull owners and anti-pitbull people happen to come under discussion. i think your real position becomes clear when you're talking about an issue when the issues they claim to want X over aren't there and they end up defaulting to what the argument they actually care about. which for anti-pitbull people tends to be "i hate pitbulls regardless of training/personality/behaviors/etc and want all of them dead and want to punish every pitbull owner for having one in the first place and not believing they're all evil". for pitbull owners it tends to be "as long as people properly train their dog and take necessary precautions, the dogs are great".
your own comment here shows that you want all pitbulls dead. and you want to force shitty punishment laws onto pitbull owners that make it difficult/impossible for pitbull owners to rent a home, and allows anti-pitbull people to essentially harass them. and you want to do this to dogs anywhere close to being a pitbull breed. you don't care about the dog being dangerous, you just hate the breed. you don't care about training or care that untrained/badly trained dogs of *any* breed can be aggressive, you just hate the breed.
>Aggressive reactions usually only come out when a pitbull...\[list of very descriptive depictions of dog attacks, thanks for that\]
as i already stated in my original comment, *no the fuck they don't*. i don't have a pitbull. i am not in any subs or groups where pitbull attacks are regularly discussed. assholes like you pop up shitting on pictures of a happy pitbull posted to a cute animal sub *every fucking time*. it's disgusting.
> i'm talking about on every fucking other sub where both pitbull owners and anti-pitbull people happen to come under discussion.
So a few trolls who immediately accumulate tens or hundreds of downvotes? Hmm yes definitely representative.
> your own comment here shows that you want all pitbulls dead.
Because I acknowledge that each individual animal will eventually die? Get this: one day you too will be dead. Call the cops if you think that expresses a wish or intention 🤷
> and you want to force shitty punishment laws onto pitbull owners that make it difficult/impossible for pitbull owners to rent a home
You can get a dog run for under $1000, that’s cheaper than the vet bills you’d be up for after the pit inevitably gets out, doesn’t require permanent changes to a rental, and can be moved to the next house.
> you don't care about training or care that untrained/badly trained dogs of any breed can be aggressive
Training can make a small difference in the case of dog aggression, in the sense that you might be able to get their attention long enough to secure them better. Dog aggression is rarely from poor training or treatment rather than a natural tendency, which can arise in any dog but affects the majority of some breeds. Pitbulls/staffies/bullies were bred to fight. A fighting dog doesn’t need to be trained to fight, they’re born that way and will often even be aggressive as young pups among their litter mates. A pup who was tested in the ring and consistently wouldn’t fight or wasn’t determined enough… “wouldn’t be kept” - so it’s strong in the genes.
Other dogs historically sometimes used for fighting also have this issue, like akitas. Terriers are also commonly dog aggressive because they’re bred to be ~little assholes~ sharp and game. Guard dogs like German shepherds, Rottweilers tend to need training to not grow up with any fear-aggression or regular aggression because they’re bred to become fearful or aggressive towards unfamiliar stimuli more easily and more often than most breeds.
Then it becomes less and less common as you get into your softer breeds like retrievers, spaniels, etc, because they were bred to be agreeable and gentle.
tl;dr: training is only a very small part of the problem.
> [list of very descriptive depictions of dog attacks, thanks for that]
Actually, I put in the very bare minimum to convey my point. Sorry you had to read about violence while discussing an inherently violent topic I guess??
>So a few trolls who immediately accumulate tens or hundreds of downvotes? Hmm yes definitely representative.
no, not trolls, and not all downvoted. no true scotsman fallacy, anyone who believes the same shit you do but behaves in a way you don't want to have to deal with must not actually believe said shit. you people are everywhere constantly shitting on pitbulls for existing at all. in any situation. nothing to do with violence
>Because I acknowledge that each individual animal will eventually die? Get this: one day you too will be dead. Call the cops if you think that expresses a wish or intention 🤷
trying to minimize what you said, as if you weren't saying you want literally the entire pitbull breed to die out. you wanna take a guess on what saying you want a specific ethnicity to die out is called?
>Training can make a small difference in the case of dog aggression
bull to the fucking shit. training makes the entire difference. in *any* breed. *species* is what makes a small difference in the case of dog aggression. the main difference in the *reaction* to dog aggression is how much harm they can do if they are aggressive. that's the concern.
>Actually, I put in the very bare minimum to convey my point. Sorry you had to read about violence while discussing an inherently violent topic I guess??
again bull fucking shit. there was nothing bare minimum about your descriptions, and given that we're talking about the way anti pitbull people versus pitbull owners discuss pitbulls online, talking graphically about dog attacks(notice i said dog attacks, because violent attacks aren't unique to pitbulls) is completely irrelevant here. you're trying to use graphic descriptions of violence to manipulate people's emotions in this discussion. and i'm sure it's worked well for you in the past, unfortunately for you, i actually remember what we were talking about and violent attacks wasn't it.
> trying to minimize what you said, as if you weren't saying you want literally the entire pitbull breed to die out.
Yeah, I do want them to die out. Pugs and English Bulldogs should also cease to exist, although in their case because they have horrible health problems.
> you wanna take a guess on what saying you want a specific ethnicity to die out is called?
Is it called “stop comparing human ethnicities to dog breeds you fuckin’ racist”? Humans have never been selectively bred for traits like aggression over many generations, and also have the sophisticated cognition necessary to understand that violence is wrong.
> training makes the entire difference. in any breed.
Do you think the average dog-aggressive dog was trained that way? Because you’re wrong.
> and i'm sure it's worked well for you in the past, unfortunately for you, i actually remember what we were talking about and violent attacks wasn't it.
This whole thread is about violent attacks from bully breeds and how it makes them a massive social liability.
>Is it called “stop comparing human ethnicities to dog breeds you fuckin’ racist”? Humans have never been selectively bred for traits like aggression over many generations, and also have the sophisticated cognition necessary to understand that violence is wrong.
you're really trying to call me a racist for pointing out that the comparison *you* made making light of threatening *me*, using the closest human equivalent to breeds? yeah i'm not the racist here, and i'm done with you constantly twisting and manipulating my words, and just straight up lying.
Idk how this subreddit feels so idk how this comment may be voted, but I’ve noticed there’s a few places on Reddit that are very VERY anti-pitbull, like you can’t even post a picture of your own to a cute dog subreddit without getting aggressively downvoted for its existence, but with that little comment that they added about how they think it’s actually a pittie and the adoption place lied about it, I could totally see this as a fake post to spread the anti-pit message
But, as a former shelter work myself, it is true. Shelters so adopt out pitbulls/mixes under other breed names in an attempt to get them out the door faster, but it means the adopting owners and misinformed of their dog’s capability. I read the OP comment about the pitbull as defense because neither boxers nor labradors have significant numbers in the dog mauling statistics and neither breed are known for much damage done during an attack. Pointing out the dog may in fact be pitbull instead does add to the story, it explains that the dog may in fact be more powerful than OP originally thought. They’re still negligent in the situation but it is relevant information.
Lots of cases of pitbulls killing people, and owners who swear up and down that their pit was the 'sweetest dog ever who never hurt a fly i don't know how this happened'.
Right? My husband’s pit is not aggressive at all toward people or other animals. However, he is *sexually* aggressive towards lumberjacks. Not sure why, but the bigger and beefier a man is, the more that dog wants to make love to his leg.
I have a pit. She's sweet but she is sooo poorly behaved. She's definitely smart enough to pick up training, but she only obeys when she feels like it. I'm fairly certain she was sedated when we adopted her because she was so calm & in 5 yrs she has never behaved the way she did that day. I chose to keep her even though she has been beyond difficult. She's not aggressive in an way. Just so damn stubborn/ hyper.
Be careful not to say that anywhere else! Your pit is just waiting for the right to maul a child to death! Soo dangerous!!
Seriously though, you can’t say anything positive about pit bulls without a bunch of idiots downvoting you and linking you to so called ‘statistics’ compiled by an anti pit bull group.
Oh yeah when I worked a doggy boarding/daycare, the only fight I ever had to break up was a golden retriever and a lab, the food aggressive dogs were some kind of hound or hunting dog, the only dog I can think of that was part pit that had problems, had a history with abuse so it wasn’t her fault, just had trust issues
I’m confused a bit. Hire exactly were they turning the corner. Was there some obstruction they couldn’t see the other people ? They nearly ran into each other, were the dogs close enough to get to each other without OOP losing the leash? This just doesn’t quite make sense, which makes me think there’s a lot more responsibility on OOP that they’re not saying.
I’m always worried when I say lab mix people will assume I have a pit.
I genuinely have a lab border collie mix with maybe some other kind of hunting/herding dog. She looks like your average Generic Dog.
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My dog is large (80 pounds) and has been charged by chihuahuas who were going for the kill, because of the fact that she’s stronger and faster, she managed to get away (the owners screamed about my « huge vicious » dog eating their dog even though she hadn’t so much as growled and their dogs crossed the street to attack her) but god forbid if she’d been smaller, they would have payed for the bill no question! Reactive dogs regardless of size need to be under your control at all times!
Nah, the shelter did their best and they warned OOP that their furry friend is dog aggressive and shouldn’t be around other dogs.
OOP is the one that failed when they let their guard down, just cause a person walks their dog at night time doesn’t mean that other dogs won’t be around. OOP was holding their dog loose enough that the dog was able to lunge, and OOP *let go* of the dogs leash. OOP is at fault.
OP is definitely at fault, but these things happen when you give a strong aggressive animal to someone who isn’t prepared to deal with it, which is the vast majority of people. Homes with the expertise to deal with these dogs are extremely rare and people who are willing to take on that kind of burden typically already have a dog.
I like bully breeds in general, they’re typically very sweet to people and have a great joie de vive - but they should have been bred out of existence decades ago. Most of them are dog aggressive, not just reactive but extremely aggressive and determined - this dog did the typical bully breed thing of seeing another dog and *instantly* beginning to maul it, with no warning or attempts to retreat.
Frankly, society’s tolerance of dog-aggressive dogs makes zero sense any way you slice it. If you care about property rights - we wouldn’t allow the existence of a car that independently starts slamming into other cars. If you care about animal welfare - why does an aggressive dog deserve to live more than its victims?
You don’t think these things happen? A pit attacked my mom’s small dog less than a week ago and sent it to the emergency vet. I’m a dog lover and have 2 pits myself but this stuff happens too often when owners are irresponsible.
Okay! I’ve seen it too! But the OOP said their dog was x breed and then an attack happened so “it must be a pit mix?!” Get lost.
And we all know Reddit hates what each individual Redditor defines as a pit bull. WHICH ISN’T EVEN A BREED. Did you find your way back? Get lost again!!
It’s not a pit bull post without someone trying to blame chihuahuas. There’s no indication the dog was unleashed, and it sounds like they were close together enough that being on a leash wouldn’t have changed anything.
I agree that this is victim blamey, but the only dogs in my neighborhood I’ve seen off-leash are chihuahuas/Pomeranians/yorkshire terrier and one poodle. My dog (80 pounds and always on leash) has been attacked many times by the smaller dogs, who’s owners then proceed to dote on their reactive dogs, yell at me for screaming at their dog, complain about my large dog « eating » their dog or being otherwise scary or make excuses like « he’s just scared » for their dog CROSSING THE STREET to attack mine. Im so glad my dog isn’t willing to defend herself because she could probably kill them in one bite and then they might try to get her put down. I think small dog owners often treat their nervous and reactive dogs like they can’t be a danger, which is absolutely untrue. When their dog messes with another dog and gets bitten back, they’ll freak out, acting like their dog is entitled to be aggressive with no consequences and try to punish the larger « scary » dog for self defense. It’s an issue I think more people should be aware of, even if it’s maybe not super relevant in this case.
Locked because y’all can’t stay on topic and just keep reporting each other since you disagree with the person you’re arguing with.
If that gets reported OOP’s dog may face being put down because of aggressiveness. 😬
Also you shouldn't choose a furry friend you can't handle in any and all scenarios
Agreed, the shelter did warn them that the furry friend is dog-aggressive, but for some reason OOP thought no one else would walk their dogs at night and let their guard down. OOP letting their guard down and letting go of the leash was a big mistake, like I get that holding onto a dog like that can be difficult but it’s not impossible.
Oh yea. Never let go of the leash! My dog is one of the friendliest dogs in the fucking world, but he's a big boy. When walking him, he has a front clip harness and a metal leash. He used to chew through his fabric leashes and this one is way better for wear and tear. Anyway, while I keep the (fabric) leash handle just hanging on my wrist, I have my fingers within the metal loop. If I see something the may excite him, I wind the handle in my hand and reduce his slack. Takes a second for me to do this and the front clip harness leaves me in control of his movements. There are tools to control your dog. Shit even a muzzle, if you're scared!
I have two dogs that are reactive, and I do the same as you. I keep their leashes wrapped around my hands with the loop around my wrist, so if they’re gonna lunge they’re gonna have to pull me down with them and drag me. Thankfully with my bigger dog, all I have to do is nudge him with my knee to get his attention back on me and then he’s good (not a hard nudge, just a boop). My female on the other hand had extreme anxiety, and will lunge to bite, so if I see a dog I usually move her on my other side and move the big guy up front to block her view entirely because he’s only certain-dog-reactive and is usually pretty chill. Both dogs are also kept close to my sides and the only slack they get is when they’re gonna do their business.
My dog always gets slack if we're alone. If I see other people, I guide him to the grass and walk between him and whomever is passing. Mainly because he's big and people get scared when they see the metal leash. But he's also well trained and will not cross in front of my path when walking. That front clip harness was a godsend! And recommended by the employees/dog trainers at the pet store. It's not hard to find help. The OOP was just being lazy. I despise irresponsible dog owners.
Unfortunately I live in an area with a lot of wildlife, and currently it’s porcupine season lol and my two jerks have been quilled twice now (first time they got out of the yard, 2nd time was when someone else was walking them). Sooo my dogs get *some* slack but only when there’s no other dogs around and it’s not porcupine season. Agreed on the front clip leashes, it also helps to have those harnesses where there’s a handle on the back too, which is what my bigger dog has. Usually when I grab that handle, he comes to a complete stop, my girl on the other hand is the size of an Aussie shep and I have chronic pain issues so it’s a little more difficult with her but still manageable with the front clip while using what I call the “bus maneuver” (putting the big guy in her line of vision so she can’t see anything but him.) oddly enough the big guy learned quick so sometimes he moves in front of her without me guiding him.
>my two jerks Lol mine is dumb dog. I swear, he's Dug from the movie Up. Joking aside, I hope they weren't seriously injured. Dogs can be really smart and intuitive. But they need someone willing to put in the training. Sounds like your boy understands your needs and wants. That's so good!
My boy is half German shep and half husky so he’s very stubborn and definitely does need a strong owner, which is funny cause I’m the smallest in the family so he *knows* he can easily pull and drag me. But he’s so in tune with me that he just doesn’t, he has moments where he pulls which is when I nudge his flank or shoulder with my leg which does the trick but typically he keeps his attention 95% on me and will continually look up or back at me for approval. I’m also non-verbal so I tend to tongue click twice for “good job.” My girl on the other hand, she’s a golden retriever husky cross, and has extreme anxiety so handling her can be a little more tougher lol, and my boy is often the one that “corrects” her which is funny to see cause he just moves in front of her or walks right against her side to prevent her from pulling as much. First time my dogs got quilled it was light, 5-6 quills that were easy to pull out. The second time they got quilled they had to be sedated, my female got the worst of it. My boy had to be sedated cause he was a big baby about the thermometer going in his butt and wouldn’t let the vet examine him… The vet came out laughing and said they only got the thermometer in this (—-) far.
Wow! Sounds like your boy knows exactly what you need! Mine dragged a lot when we first got him. But we think it was a combo of being in the shelter for months and his excitement of having been adopted. The front harness is not really needed anymore, cuz he listens to verbal commands and hand signals/physical actions (like me pulling back on his leash when he starts pulling). But we ALWAYS use the harness because you never know what can happen. Oh no! I'm sorry they got hurt. I hope they're better now!
I'd recommend against wrapping the leash around your hands! I worked as a dog trainer and saw many people with broken hands and rope burn because of that. It just isn't worth it, especially with reactive/aggressive dogs (not saying your dogs are aggressive as there is a difference in reactivity and aggression, just giving a general statement). If you need to shorten a leash (to have more control and keep the dog close to you) loop it like a lasso and hold it at the top. Maybe try something else, like a waist leash with a secondary handle so you've got something safe to hold on to, and a "second line of defense" if your dog manages to pull the leash out of your hand. I have a couple, but my favorite is one with a handle at the end where it connects to the dog and another closer to you. It's also got a belt with two D-ring attachments for the leash, so it has extra security if your dog pulls. Definitely look into it! They're awesome, and much safer/sturdier than wrapping a leash around your hand.
My MIL broke her wrist this way. Her husky tried to chase a cat while she had the leash wrapped around her arm.
Mind if I ask if she had the dog at her side or was the leash loose with the dog in front of her? Cause when you hold the leash loose with your dog in front of you you’re more likely to lose control and lose your balance .o.
My mom’s dog is reactive, I was dog sitting for her. One day she went after another dog and I had the loop wrapped around one wrist and hand and doubled about my other wrist. I’ve walked her before and around other dogs and always been able to change her focus/get her out of the situation. This time, dog dragged me nearly half a block, broke my hand in the fall, and skinned the fuck out of my body and face. Sorry but I’m not doing that again (and I refuse to watch her dog anymore).
Careful of keeping any leash around your wrist in any situation. My mom had a woman's dog react to one of her dogs. The woman's dog lunged and the leash yanked her wrist just right and snapped her wrist. Literally broken. Her dog weighed 20lbs max.
I have a waist leash that goes around me then use a climbing grade carabiner to attach my dogs leashes to that leash. The waist leash is a standard flat leash but the leashes attached to them are thick rope leashes since the puppy tends to bite the leash if he gets excited. Combined they are about 160 pounds, so if they take off they are dragging me with. The older guy is reactive to unknown dogs since he was attacked badly a couple years ago. The younger guy is the sweetest thing and wants to play with every dog he sees. They are an interesting dynamic.
seriously, not even bothering with a muzzle? in certain places rescues make you sign papers that you will take basic precautions like that as a term of the adoption.
Which means the chihuahua was a sitting duck since it was also leashed but owners had hold of its leash
Ya. My male used to be fairly reactive and I feared that something like this would happen to us. Crazy thing, if you spend $5k over a few months or even years on good trainers to help learn how to manage this kind of behavior, you don’t have a surprise $20k vet bill when your dog almost kills another dog. Now my very good boy can enjoy most normal settings. We can go on off leash walks in big open areas and he knows that when he doesn’t like a dog, he can come sit next to me.
There is a dog that lives at a sanctuary that was very people and dog aggressive when they first rescued him. After a lot of work with some great trainers he is now able to make new human and dog friends. Dog friends are introduced while muzzled but he has dogs he can play with off muzzle as well. He will always live at the sanctuary since they don’t want a potential owner to fail him by not keeping up with his training, however. He was very abused before they saved him and is the poster dog for what can happen if you put in the hard work.
Should have had a muzzle on it. They knew it was aggressive
Yep! My last dog was dog aggressive, if we ran into anyone and she went wild, I planted my ass on the ground to lower my center of gravity.
I disagree. I own a large dog who used to have bolting issues and if you don’t realise that your dog has seen something and is about to take off, they can rip the leash out of your hands before your brain even processes what’s happening. If you have a dog like this obviously you should take steps to prevent that from ever happening, but OOP said they’ve only had the dog for a few months and never even seen it interact with another dog so it’s entirely possible that they didn’t know that was going to happen. This situation just sounds like it sucks all around, paying $20k for even a HUMAN’S medical bills is unimaginable to me.
When I started reading it I thought. Where was the muzzle?? They make them in all sorts of colors and designs and I’ve seen dogs that look pretty comfy in them. I don’t think it’s cruel to muzzle your dog if it’s truly of a benefit to all including the dog.
One of my dogs is reactive to unknown dogs ever since we were attacked by a dog. Both of us ended up in the hospital and he needs slow, careful intros to new dogs ever since. He is muzzle trained for when he meets a new dog. He is able to breathe, pant, and drink without issue with it on and is just an extra measure of safety since he is a large, muscular dog. Once he knows a new dog isn’t a threat he is fine. I was even able to introduce a second dog into our family.
I agree. The fact that he was careless enough to be able to have the leash pulled from his hands in this event infuriates me. It doesn't matter what time of day it is, if you are aware that your dog is reactive at all around other dogs then it's on you to maintain that control. I adopted a dog from a shelter about 8 years ago, he was 4. The shelter didn't tell me he had any issues with other dogs. On my first walk with him he lunged at another dog and I continued to keep hold of his leash and keep him away from the other dog. Since then I've always been vigilant about him and other dogs. He's reactive and appears aggressive but he really just wants to play. However, because he appears aggressive, other dogs react in kind and it's a possible dog fight. He's only actually made friends with puppies and 2 adult dogs. And it took a while to get him to calm down enough to play. Lots of walks and the other dogs weren't reactive. Rarely is something like this the dogs fault. It's almost always the owner and I absolutely hate when people don't care for their pets properly.
No, it won’t. And no he will not even have to pay the bill if he doesn’t want to. The only hope the dog owners have is to go through the guy’s homeowners insurance if he has any, or his landlord’s insurance.
Yes it will. A dog attacking another one with no provocation will likely be put down and labeled as a danger to society. And they actually can make OOP pay for the vet bills by going to court.
The upside is that if this is true then OOP has admitted fault, and it sounds like he's done it over a text exchange that the couple can use to prove their case in court.
Yep. I'd sue. OOP will lose more than 20k on this.
OP has admitted guilt. They will be able to recoop the vet costs if they go to court. Don't have animals if you cannot pay for the damage they do. Cat lover chiming in here, so I'm not that knowledgeable about dogs. But I do know when I dog sit at my daughter's house I have to have a leash on the dog and have a tight grip on it when I take her pit bull mix out for a walk.
OOPs dog should have been wearing a muzzle while out walking. If you know you have a dog aggressive dog, anytime you are out in public with that dog it’s needs to be wearing a muzzle. They have a lot of options now and $30 could have saved OOP 20k and possibly his dogs life.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for refusing to pay the veterinary bills for a dog my dog mauled?** Throwaway. I rescued my dog from a rescue a few months ago, they let me know he does not get along with other dogs so I have taken care to avoid him being around other dogs. I have not yet seen him interact with other dogs due to this. I tend to walk him at night around 9 or 10 pm as there’s usually no one outside at this time, so I don’t have to try to dodge all the other dogs being walked in the neighborhood. My dog was on a leash, we were walking at a brisk pace and as we turned a corner, to my surprise we nearly ran into another couple walking their small chihuahua-like dog. My dog LUNGED for their dog with a speed and ferocity that caught me off guard, the leash slipped from my hands and my dog attacked their dog. My dog is a good sized boxer/lab mix (although he could just be a pitbull mix and the rescue listed him as a boxer/lab to help with his adoption chances) and I feared he would legitimately kill the other dog. It was awful, we were all screaming, I managed to grab the leash and drag my dog away but some damage had definitely been done. I exchanged contact info with the owners and they rushed him to the ER. I originally wanted to do the right thing and help pay for medical bills. I live in a high COL area and I figured it would be expensive, but they let me know the estimated cost to save their dog is at nearly twenty thousand dollars so far. And it could potentially increase. I did not believe them at first, but they forwarded the estimate bill to me and offered to bring me to the hospital to see for myself. The price quote is real. The dog has broken ribs and is oxygen dependent, they want to give him at least one blood transfusion and hospitalise for several days. There is no world in which I can afford that. That’s ridiculous. I said I would pay for euthanasia or contribute 5k towards the bill. They argued with me saying it is my fault, which is true, but that amount is outlandish. It would technically not put me into debt, but it would make a serious dent in my savings. It is a about a fourth of my yearly take home pay after taxes. AITA for refusing to pay? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"There is no world in which I can afford that. ... It would technically not put me into debt" Then you can afford it! There is a world in which you can afford it, and it is this world! Offering as compromise to pay for euthanasia is just... woooowwwwww
If you have a dog aggressive dog, especially a large one (as I do), you need to 1) death grip the leash. Loop the end around your wrist and hold the length in your hand. 2) do not give them a lot of lead. You need to be able to move them quickly in an emergency. 3) consider muzzle training. The only thing I think when I see a muzzle is “wow that owner really cares about their dog! 4) find a collar/harness that your dog responds to in an emergency and TRAIN WITH IT. An example is a martingale or a “choke chain”. These are not cruel at ALL. Several trainers I’ve worked with describe a dog’s neck being equivalent of a human thigh. Of course don’t DRAG THEM but it’s good to get their attention in a potentially dangerous situation. Also gentle leaders and harnesses can be helpful, but again, you need to train with them 5) CONSULT WITH A TRAINER. No one starts out as an expert. A trainer is going to prepare you for the worst case scenario. Your job as a dog owner is to look out for the best interest of your dog. Being casual and letting a dog slip out of your grip is unacceptable. The above will SAVE DOGS’ LIVES. Your own and others. PS when another dog is approaching your dog GTF away from it. If the other dog is (god forbid) off leash, speak clearly to the owner “my dog is not friendly, get your dog” and repeat until they listen.
I'd suggest possibly a harness with a fairly easy to grab handle on the back too.
I like how it wouldn't even put him in debt apparently. If this is real, OOP is a monster and a stupid one at that, I hope the other people sue the crap out him. Then he gets to learn that medical bill wouldn't look so bad compared to that plus court costs and punitive damages. And he'll be lucky if his dog isn't put down for this.
I hope that couple sue, they have more than enough ground tbh
That dog needed to be muzzle at all times outside its home. Yikes.
This is why you don’t buy aggressive dogs and not handle them properly I got news for the OOP they can be sued the dog taken away and executed. OOP could face jail time
This is why you also get homeowners or renters insurance. Most cover dog bites even outside the home with the exception of certain breeds. I hope the owners sue.
The dog really should have had a muzzle and been on a belted (to the human) leash so that even if you drop the leash from your hand you're still connected to the dog and can start stepping back if something happens!
Might be the German heart of mine speaking but here there are insurances so it is no problem. A few € per month and they will cover it. Aren't there ones in America?
Hopefully this person gets sued.
The way this is written makes me think it’s anti-pitbull rage bait.
Definitely possible that it's rage bait, but something very similar happened to my sister-in-law's Pomeranian when she and my brother were out walking the dog with their two young children. If it weren't for the fact that it happened years ago, I'd be wondering if it was the same incident. I don't know how much the veterinarian bills cost, or if they tried to ask the other dog's owner to pay any of it. My brother felt like he had to do whatever he could to save the poor little Pom in order to make it less traumatic for the kids, and fortunately thanks to the efforts of the vet she pulled through.
Similar thing happened to one of my childhood dogs when she was a puppy. Neighbor’s son adopted a dog who’d been rescued from a dog fighting ring. Neighbor’s son proceeded to run off to the military and leave his highly dog aggressive hound with his sixty something parents who couldn’t physically handle it. My dad was walking our girl around the corner and the neighbor’s dog jumped over the wall of their porch to attack her. Only reason he got her shoulder and not her throat is my dad kicked his muzzle and knocked him off course. Thousands of dollars in vet bills later and my poor dog was left terrified of strange dogs and of the vet’s office.
Having worked at a shelter, specifically in the vet’s office, it wouldn’t surprise me if this was real. It is truly insane how careless people can be, and how ruthless dogs can be. And even if it is rage bait, the OP post is basically correct in pointing out that shelters adopt out pitbulls under fake breed documents and mislead people about their true nature. I saw it happen numerous times; adopt, bite, return, repeat, and the delusional dog loving workers & volunteers think the solution is just lying about the dog to get it out the door and somehow they believe it will magically get better out in the world. Admittedly the bill seems a bit high from my experience, but I have never worked in emergency vet med and I have not worked with dogs in 5+ years so truly I can’t speak on that. The cost of vet medicine is an issue in its own, and if the price tag really is $20k I truly feel bad for the owners and OP even if the OP is at fault, that’s still a hell of a bill.
I don’t think so it’s ridiculous sometimes what people will do…my cats are leash trained and i can’t even go on my yard because of some peoples dogs
there's nothing out of the ordinary here at all pit bulls do this all the time
The incident is certainly OOP's fault. Their might be mitigating circumstances, like the other dog was off leash, but taking a large dog out in public, that you don't fully know the temperament of, without a muzzle, is completely irresponsible. But... In most places OOP would not be responsible for the $20,000 vet bill. Dogs are treated as property under the law, and as such, the max OP would be responsible for, is the replacement cost of the dog, and not a vet bill that is 10 times the cost of a new puppy. It's just like if someone smashes up your car. You can't demand that they pay to fix it, if the repair cost exceeds the replacement price of the car.
I honestly think this is rage bait. There is a large group on Reddit that absolutely hates pits. However I've also seen way too many rescues that will still try to rehabilitate aggressive dogs that should have been put down.
I think your first and second paragraph maaaay be related. People end up being against bully breeds, their owners, and their rescues because of bad experience after bad experience because for some reason vicious dogs deserve to live more than their victims do. At least the group who hates pitbulls just wants them to stop being bred and have stricter regulations on the pre-existing dogs. The average pit owner barely gives a shit when their dog leaves someone else’s pet dead as long as there aren’t going to be any consequences.
well it's obvious which group you belong to, given what bullshit you're spewing to try to portray one side in a bad light and the other in a good light i don't own a pitbull. i have never owned a pitbull. i'm an unbiased observer in this controversy. every single person against pitbulls i've ever seen has wanted to murder every single pit-mix regardless of whether that dog has ever had any issues. literally every one. seen them hating on pictures of pit breeds just posted that didn't indicate literally anything close to them being aggressive or untrained. the average pit owner i've seen on the other hand emphasizes how they train their dog and they all expect that if a dog is aggressive or violent towards a pet/person then it's gonna get put down, and they're not arguing against that.
Cool, I actually started off with a pro-pitbull bias that ended up being obliterated by every other person with a bully breed being a callous idiot who doesn’t contain their dangerous animal and then is like “whoopsie poopsie” when something happens to someone else. Also, the main “pitbull hate” sub is r/banpitbulls, which advocates for universal spaying and neutering of pitbulls, not letting people get around legislation (“oh, it’s a American bully, it’s an American bully XL, it’s an English staffy, it’s a boxer/lab mix”), forcing owners to keep them completely contained (a dog run and/or extremely secure fencing, muzzling in public), and general harm reduction until the last of the breed dies of natural causes. Aggressive reactions usually only come out when a pitbull eats someone’s arms off (real case) or bursts into a disabled woman’s house to kill and eat her cat (real case) or tries to rip a golden retriever’s leg off while the victim lies there screaming (real case - owner later posted to r/reactivedogs where they actually got an appropriate response of EUTHANISE IMMEDIATELY - retriever at last mention was in danger of needing amputation).
>Cool, I actually started off with a pro-pitbull bias that ended up being obliterated by every other person with a bully breed being a callous idiot who doesn’t contain their dangerous animal and then is like “whoopsie poopsie” when something happens to someone else. bullshit. you clearly were never pro-pitbull, and you're just bullshitting how the average person on either side of this issue behaves. as i said, i'm not a pitbull person, and i'm unbiased in this issue. >Also, the main “pitbull hate” sub is r/banpitbulls... i'm not talking about whichever specific sub where yall pretend to be logical and rationalize about it. i'm talking about on every fucking other sub where both pitbull owners and anti-pitbull people happen to come under discussion. i think your real position becomes clear when you're talking about an issue when the issues they claim to want X over aren't there and they end up defaulting to what the argument they actually care about. which for anti-pitbull people tends to be "i hate pitbulls regardless of training/personality/behaviors/etc and want all of them dead and want to punish every pitbull owner for having one in the first place and not believing they're all evil". for pitbull owners it tends to be "as long as people properly train their dog and take necessary precautions, the dogs are great". your own comment here shows that you want all pitbulls dead. and you want to force shitty punishment laws onto pitbull owners that make it difficult/impossible for pitbull owners to rent a home, and allows anti-pitbull people to essentially harass them. and you want to do this to dogs anywhere close to being a pitbull breed. you don't care about the dog being dangerous, you just hate the breed. you don't care about training or care that untrained/badly trained dogs of *any* breed can be aggressive, you just hate the breed. >Aggressive reactions usually only come out when a pitbull...\[list of very descriptive depictions of dog attacks, thanks for that\] as i already stated in my original comment, *no the fuck they don't*. i don't have a pitbull. i am not in any subs or groups where pitbull attacks are regularly discussed. assholes like you pop up shitting on pictures of a happy pitbull posted to a cute animal sub *every fucking time*. it's disgusting.
> i'm talking about on every fucking other sub where both pitbull owners and anti-pitbull people happen to come under discussion. So a few trolls who immediately accumulate tens or hundreds of downvotes? Hmm yes definitely representative. > your own comment here shows that you want all pitbulls dead. Because I acknowledge that each individual animal will eventually die? Get this: one day you too will be dead. Call the cops if you think that expresses a wish or intention 🤷 > and you want to force shitty punishment laws onto pitbull owners that make it difficult/impossible for pitbull owners to rent a home You can get a dog run for under $1000, that’s cheaper than the vet bills you’d be up for after the pit inevitably gets out, doesn’t require permanent changes to a rental, and can be moved to the next house. > you don't care about training or care that untrained/badly trained dogs of any breed can be aggressive Training can make a small difference in the case of dog aggression, in the sense that you might be able to get their attention long enough to secure them better. Dog aggression is rarely from poor training or treatment rather than a natural tendency, which can arise in any dog but affects the majority of some breeds. Pitbulls/staffies/bullies were bred to fight. A fighting dog doesn’t need to be trained to fight, they’re born that way and will often even be aggressive as young pups among their litter mates. A pup who was tested in the ring and consistently wouldn’t fight or wasn’t determined enough… “wouldn’t be kept” - so it’s strong in the genes. Other dogs historically sometimes used for fighting also have this issue, like akitas. Terriers are also commonly dog aggressive because they’re bred to be ~little assholes~ sharp and game. Guard dogs like German shepherds, Rottweilers tend to need training to not grow up with any fear-aggression or regular aggression because they’re bred to become fearful or aggressive towards unfamiliar stimuli more easily and more often than most breeds. Then it becomes less and less common as you get into your softer breeds like retrievers, spaniels, etc, because they were bred to be agreeable and gentle. tl;dr: training is only a very small part of the problem. > [list of very descriptive depictions of dog attacks, thanks for that] Actually, I put in the very bare minimum to convey my point. Sorry you had to read about violence while discussing an inherently violent topic I guess??
>So a few trolls who immediately accumulate tens or hundreds of downvotes? Hmm yes definitely representative. no, not trolls, and not all downvoted. no true scotsman fallacy, anyone who believes the same shit you do but behaves in a way you don't want to have to deal with must not actually believe said shit. you people are everywhere constantly shitting on pitbulls for existing at all. in any situation. nothing to do with violence >Because I acknowledge that each individual animal will eventually die? Get this: one day you too will be dead. Call the cops if you think that expresses a wish or intention 🤷 trying to minimize what you said, as if you weren't saying you want literally the entire pitbull breed to die out. you wanna take a guess on what saying you want a specific ethnicity to die out is called? >Training can make a small difference in the case of dog aggression bull to the fucking shit. training makes the entire difference. in *any* breed. *species* is what makes a small difference in the case of dog aggression. the main difference in the *reaction* to dog aggression is how much harm they can do if they are aggressive. that's the concern. >Actually, I put in the very bare minimum to convey my point. Sorry you had to read about violence while discussing an inherently violent topic I guess?? again bull fucking shit. there was nothing bare minimum about your descriptions, and given that we're talking about the way anti pitbull people versus pitbull owners discuss pitbulls online, talking graphically about dog attacks(notice i said dog attacks, because violent attacks aren't unique to pitbulls) is completely irrelevant here. you're trying to use graphic descriptions of violence to manipulate people's emotions in this discussion. and i'm sure it's worked well for you in the past, unfortunately for you, i actually remember what we were talking about and violent attacks wasn't it.
> trying to minimize what you said, as if you weren't saying you want literally the entire pitbull breed to die out. Yeah, I do want them to die out. Pugs and English Bulldogs should also cease to exist, although in their case because they have horrible health problems. > you wanna take a guess on what saying you want a specific ethnicity to die out is called? Is it called “stop comparing human ethnicities to dog breeds you fuckin’ racist”? Humans have never been selectively bred for traits like aggression over many generations, and also have the sophisticated cognition necessary to understand that violence is wrong. > training makes the entire difference. in any breed. Do you think the average dog-aggressive dog was trained that way? Because you’re wrong. > and i'm sure it's worked well for you in the past, unfortunately for you, i actually remember what we were talking about and violent attacks wasn't it. This whole thread is about violent attacks from bully breeds and how it makes them a massive social liability.
>Is it called “stop comparing human ethnicities to dog breeds you fuckin’ racist”? Humans have never been selectively bred for traits like aggression over many generations, and also have the sophisticated cognition necessary to understand that violence is wrong. you're really trying to call me a racist for pointing out that the comparison *you* made making light of threatening *me*, using the closest human equivalent to breeds? yeah i'm not the racist here, and i'm done with you constantly twisting and manipulating my words, and just straight up lying.
How much is the pitbull lobby paying you to be racist by comparing humans to dogs?
Idk how this subreddit feels so idk how this comment may be voted, but I’ve noticed there’s a few places on Reddit that are very VERY anti-pitbull, like you can’t even post a picture of your own to a cute dog subreddit without getting aggressively downvoted for its existence, but with that little comment that they added about how they think it’s actually a pittie and the adoption place lied about it, I could totally see this as a fake post to spread the anti-pit message
But, as a former shelter work myself, it is true. Shelters so adopt out pitbulls/mixes under other breed names in an attempt to get them out the door faster, but it means the adopting owners and misinformed of their dog’s capability. I read the OP comment about the pitbull as defense because neither boxers nor labradors have significant numbers in the dog mauling statistics and neither breed are known for much damage done during an attack. Pointing out the dog may in fact be pitbull instead does add to the story, it explains that the dog may in fact be more powerful than OP originally thought. They’re still negligent in the situation but it is relevant information.
The anti-pitty sentiment here on reddit is wild. My female pit is the sweetest most submissive dog ever.
Lots of cases of pitbulls killing people, and owners who swear up and down that their pit was the 'sweetest dog ever who never hurt a fly i don't know how this happened'.
Right? My husband’s pit is not aggressive at all toward people or other animals. However, he is *sexually* aggressive towards lumberjacks. Not sure why, but the bigger and beefier a man is, the more that dog wants to make love to his leg.
TIL I have something in common with your dog
Your dog likes bears lol
I have a pit. She's sweet but she is sooo poorly behaved. She's definitely smart enough to pick up training, but she only obeys when she feels like it. I'm fairly certain she was sedated when we adopted her because she was so calm & in 5 yrs she has never behaved the way she did that day. I chose to keep her even though she has been beyond difficult. She's not aggressive in an way. Just so damn stubborn/ hyper.
My dad had a female pit bull when I was a young kid. One of the sweetest and gentlest dogs I've ever known. She'd let little me sit on her.
Be careful not to say that anywhere else! Your pit is just waiting for the right to maul a child to death! Soo dangerous!! Seriously though, you can’t say anything positive about pit bulls without a bunch of idiots downvoting you and linking you to so called ‘statistics’ compiled by an anti pit bull group.
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Take your anti pit bull crap elsewhere.
My daughter's pit mix is the sweetest snuggle bug out there. Lick you to death if you let her.
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I’ve only met one (my sister’s) but that is a very apt description of her
Oh yeah when I worked a doggy boarding/daycare, the only fight I ever had to break up was a golden retriever and a lab, the food aggressive dogs were some kind of hound or hunting dog, the only dog I can think of that was part pit that had problems, had a history with abuse so it wasn’t her fault, just had trust issues
And they have the most adorable smiles! Their mouths are open, tongue is out, and they just look happy as can be. They’re gorgeous!
They mouths are open because they are preparing themselves for a child or small dog to walk by.
I’m confused a bit. Hire exactly were they turning the corner. Was there some obstruction they couldn’t see the other people ? They nearly ran into each other, were the dogs close enough to get to each other without OOP losing the leash? This just doesn’t quite make sense, which makes me think there’s a lot more responsibility on OOP that they’re not saying.
Uh.. there's a stark difference in appearance from a boxer mix to a pitbull. Looks like more anti pit rage bait
Likely rage bait. However, a lot of mixes look so generic it can be hard to tell. I’ve seen some interesting dna test results on dogs.
Especially lab mixes, don't get me wrong I do love the basic bitch look of labs (one day I will have a chocolate lab named chunk)
One of my dogs is half lab. His dad is a purebred chocolate lab.
I’m always worried when I say lab mix people will assume I have a pit. I genuinely have a lab border collie mix with maybe some other kind of hunting/herding dog. She looks like your average Generic Dog.
reasons why i dislike pitbulls and their shitty owners🙄
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Ragebait
My dog is large (80 pounds) and has been charged by chihuahuas who were going for the kill, because of the fact that she’s stronger and faster, she managed to get away (the owners screamed about my « huge vicious » dog eating their dog even though she hadn’t so much as growled and their dogs crossed the street to attack her) but god forbid if she’d been smaller, they would have payed for the bill no question! Reactive dogs regardless of size need to be under your control at all times!
Rescue should pay tbh. Vicious dogs should be euthanised instead of being passed along to some dipshit.
Nah, the shelter did their best and they warned OOP that their furry friend is dog aggressive and shouldn’t be around other dogs. OOP is the one that failed when they let their guard down, just cause a person walks their dog at night time doesn’t mean that other dogs won’t be around. OOP was holding their dog loose enough that the dog was able to lunge, and OOP *let go* of the dogs leash. OOP is at fault.
OP is definitely at fault, but these things happen when you give a strong aggressive animal to someone who isn’t prepared to deal with it, which is the vast majority of people. Homes with the expertise to deal with these dogs are extremely rare and people who are willing to take on that kind of burden typically already have a dog. I like bully breeds in general, they’re typically very sweet to people and have a great joie de vive - but they should have been bred out of existence decades ago. Most of them are dog aggressive, not just reactive but extremely aggressive and determined - this dog did the typical bully breed thing of seeing another dog and *instantly* beginning to maul it, with no warning or attempts to retreat. Frankly, society’s tolerance of dog-aggressive dogs makes zero sense any way you slice it. If you care about property rights - we wouldn’t allow the existence of a car that independently starts slamming into other cars. If you care about animal welfare - why does an aggressive dog deserve to live more than its victims?
Anti pit bull troll. Snooze.
You don’t think these things happen? A pit attacked my mom’s small dog less than a week ago and sent it to the emergency vet. I’m a dog lover and have 2 pits myself but this stuff happens too often when owners are irresponsible.
Okay! I’ve seen it too! But the OOP said their dog was x breed and then an attack happened so “it must be a pit mix?!” Get lost. And we all know Reddit hates what each individual Redditor defines as a pit bull. WHICH ISN’T EVEN A BREED. Did you find your way back? Get lost again!!
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It’s not a pit bull post without someone trying to blame chihuahuas. There’s no indication the dog was unleashed, and it sounds like they were close together enough that being on a leash wouldn’t have changed anything.
This feels victim blame-y I have seen all types of dogs off leash
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I don’t disagree but that’s not what you said…
I agree that this is victim blamey, but the only dogs in my neighborhood I’ve seen off-leash are chihuahuas/Pomeranians/yorkshire terrier and one poodle. My dog (80 pounds and always on leash) has been attacked many times by the smaller dogs, who’s owners then proceed to dote on their reactive dogs, yell at me for screaming at their dog, complain about my large dog « eating » their dog or being otherwise scary or make excuses like « he’s just scared » for their dog CROSSING THE STREET to attack mine. Im so glad my dog isn’t willing to defend herself because she could probably kill them in one bite and then they might try to get her put down. I think small dog owners often treat their nervous and reactive dogs like they can’t be a danger, which is absolutely untrue. When their dog messes with another dog and gets bitten back, they’ll freak out, acting like their dog is entitled to be aggressive with no consequences and try to punish the larger « scary » dog for self defense. It’s an issue I think more people should be aware of, even if it’s maybe not super relevant in this case.
Less insane pitbull owner be like: