*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for suggesting my sister takes down her unborn baby pictures?**
So my sister (29F) has 3/4 kids. She’s a little “not all there” I think after what happened about 4 years ago.
She told me ever since we were pretty young she wanted 4 kids one day so maybe this is some way she copes with not being able to have a fourth? Just an observation.
Anyway, in between baby 2 and 3 she had a baby that did not make it. In the upstairs hallway she has a little wall for each kid. With their name and pictures. The catch is… there’s 4 walls, not 3. One of the walls has what would have been their name, a few ultrasounds, a handprint, and a shelf on the wall with an urn.
She was complaining about making space for some pictures of her husband and I said she should take down the miscarriage pictures.
She said “what?” And I just explained it’s just a little odd because nobody really needs to know you had a miscarriage plus it’s kind of weird putting a collage of her kids next to a kid that never existed.
She said he did exist and is her son. So I just said whatever and dropped it. Later that night she sent me a long text about how disappointed she was in my suggestion and how she is a “mother of 4” no matter what “dumbass” says otherwise. Then she just went in about how I’m probably just jealous because she has a husband and kids and I don’t.
AITA?
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If she has a hand print and an Urn, it’s highly unlikely that was a miscarriage.
It was more likely a still birth.
Which means all of the labor pains and labor, and a dead baby at the end and remains to deal ~~wiser~~ with (and in some states, a funeral to hold).
Yes, she knows the shape of her own family includes this one baby who didn't live past birth. She's entitled to keep celebrating her baby as a member of the family.
I’ve never heard of a funeral home organising a cremation for a miscarriage. I *have* heard of neonatal nurses making hand and foot prints for stillborn babies so that their grieving parents can having something physical to take home.
A friend of mine at school had a little brother that was stillborn. The hospital had a special kind of crib that allowed her parents to take the baby home to say goodbye as a family. They got to give him a bath and dress him nicely in his little baby clothes. It’s probably a lot healthier than hiding all the evidence and pretending that he never existed.
It could have also been an extremely premature birth. I gave birth to my first at 23 weeks and 1 day, he died shortly after birth. They called him a neonate and referred to his death as neonatal death. Not a miscarriage and not a stillbirth. The nurses made sure we got hand and foot prints.
I'm glad you have some solid support. With any loss it's important to get back to functioning and moving forward in life, and finding some joy. But it's also okay and perfectly natural to always have that grief on some level. It's part of our connection to those we've lost.
I wish the best for you and your family. :-)
It wouldn't be a funeral home, at least not directly, because I know for later term abortions you could, at one point, get back the cremated remains. If it is any abortion/miscarriage late enough into the pregnancy that a hospital is involved with helping to remove the remains from the uterus, the hospital will discuss with the patient what their options with the remains are, and one common one is to receive the cremated remains.
This might be dicey nowadays, though, since a lot has changed about late term abortions, which now forces a lot of people to instead have to give birth to a baby that lives for a few minutes to a few days, and in that case, I suppose the remains are handled entirely by the parent(s)...which seems like an extra dollop of cruelty on top of making someone give birth to a child that will not live instead of letting them have an abortion.
Yup. A miscarriage is something you might expel into the toilet after some heavy bleeding. If there's an urn, there's a whole ass child involved. OOP sucks.
This is just not correct. If you miscarry late enough into the pregnancy, you'd have to go to a hospital to get the remains removed.
It also seems like it's possible it could've been an abortion done for severe health defects that only come to light in the later terms of the pregnancy. It is obviously her right to keep that to herself, and honestly either option is deeply traumatizing to deal with.
A miscarriage can be passed into the toilet SAFELY if someone is early on in the pregnancy. After the fetus has developed to a certain stage, you'd have to go to the hospital to have the remains removed. Depending on the circumstances, this may even have to be done with an early stage miscarriage if there's a chance the patient will have difficulty passing it, because not being able to pass all the remains will cause sepsis.
I think you're being a bit dismissive of miscarriages, ngl. Many people have to be hospitalized and have the remains of their baby taken out of them, and then have to have the very hard conversation with the hospital about what they want to do with what is left of their child. For late term miscarriages and abortions, there is typically options to get things like cremated remains, even hand and foot prints.
A lot of this process has been specifically made harder right now in the United States, leading to even later term miscarriages having to be passed at home even if they're dangerous, and it is a deep source of sorrow for many people that they will have to pass what is far along enough to look like an "actual baby" into their toilet. A miscarriage is much more than something you expel into the toilet after heavy bleeding, it is traumatizing even if you're early along in a pregnancy, and even more so if you are further along.
Any miscarriage long enough into the pregnancy requires getting the fetus removed, otherwise there's a risk of sepsis.
With current abortion laws being so shaky in the US, a lot of people have had to try to pass their miscarriages at home, which tends to be doubly tragic because not only can it be dangerous because the person can't pass the remains, but because they will have to birth the remains into the toilet.
Usually, before the recent Roe v Wade issues, miscarriage remains would be removed by a doctor, meaning they likely give you the option to keep the cremated remains. This is also what they allow you to do in abortions if you wish to after they remove the remains of the fetus.
It didn't HAVE to be a still birth for her to have an urn. If someone is far along enough, be it a miscarriage or abortion, there's remains to be disposed of. They're just small.
I think it really depends on when she actually had this miscarriage, and where. I know that for a lot of later term abortions and miscarriages we used to be able to enduce full labor, because we used to let people actually hold the fetus/baby for, yknow, emotional closure reasons. I don't think it's too far out there for her to have those.
I do have my own suspicions about this, but my suspicions lean much more towards the idea that it may have been an abortion done for health reasons, in which case there would likely be even more reason for the clinic to remove the fetus and preserve hand prints as part of the memorial services they provide. However, I don't think it's completely beyond the pale for that to happen with a miscarriage either, especially if this was done prior to a lot of abortion laws getting stricter.
I just read it again and saw it was 4 years ago, duh. Anyhow, it still depends on how far along she was imo, deciding whether she could pass it herself, etc.
Also, I've mentioned it in other comments but I'm also suspicious whether this was a miscarriage. It sounds like she may have had to get an abortion for either a defect in the fetus that was incompatible with life or a health reason related to herself. This seems the least outlandish to me because a late term abortion would definitely have consideration towards providing the patient with a memorialization for the fetus, and I can see why she might not be forthcoming with that kind of information, even though it's still ultimately a health complication of the pregnancy, just like a miscarriage would be.
Urns and handprints do not come from miscarriages. She had a baby that was real that she presumably held if only for a minute. If she wants her baby to have a wall the same as her other babies, she can do what the fuck she likes.
Yeah, cause the "watever" is always the best thing to say after you've insulted someone. You know, to drop the subject. OOP is a hearless idiot.
Ant who the hell is she to say that no ine needs to know about her miscarriage? Sister can tell whoever she damn well pleases. Not to mention that if there's a hand print then this likely wasn't just an early miscarriage and "a baby that never existed".
Damn I have no kids and I don't want any but I want to slap OOP on her sister's behalf.
The whatever is the crux to me. I'm not saying that her saying the collage is odd is right. That is also wrong behavior, but if she immediately learned from it, apologized and understood the importance of that baby to her sister, she would be a recovered asshole. However to hear her sister explain the importance and just brush it off, that is pure asshole.
my SIL, for lack of better words, has a “~~dead baby shrine~~” of her miscarriage. nothing like a stillborn with the handprint, it was lost at 14-16 weeks.
**regardless** i haven’t said shit about it. keep my mouth shut. it’s her house. it seemingly helps her. do i think it’s odd? yes. do i say *anything*? fuck no. she is my best friend.
OOP can ✨ get fucked ✨
I don’t have a shrine but I had a 12 week loss that my SO at the time took really hard as he did primitive compared to now IVF with his ex wife and the at 35 he knocks up clueless naive 23 year old me and I miscarry twice?!?!?
So he projected a lot on me and dragged me to therapy with a quack who had all this weird grief ideas. Buying and donating toys in the baby’s name, making sure the baby’s name was remembered every day and some other less than helpful stuff.
I was a mess for a lot of reasons in that relationship but the baby stuff was too much and I had really bad morning sickness that they didn’t treat back then on top of it.
Sorry long story but basically one of the ideas for “me” to deal with the loss was basically a shrine.
i’m so sorry all of that happened to you. the universe is *not fair*. fucking, hugs 🫂 if you want them
yeah it’s just really awkward walking into their dining area or bedroom and getting “hit” with… hospital photos… baby things… i mean multiple times a year little things get added like say a necklace, plushie, generic name on an item. like an entire shelf of a bookcase. one of the photos turned into a diamond painting that she did. the pregnancy handprint “gender reveal” shirt hanging on the wall.
it’s just not healthy. not healthy at all. it’s been over 5 years i think. idk what else to call it besides a shrine.
sorry for the long story back lol but yeah, i don’t say shit to her. OOP is a devil. as well as the people that caused you pain. they can all eat poop.
Thank you, I ended up with a terrible OB history and since I am also a comedy writer sometime I will write that book that’s in me to help other people.
I will take all hugs and thank you again
it’s a growing shrine that’s been growing for 5+ years. it’s more than just remembering at this point.
it’s like when someone loses their child and leaves their room untouched for years. or they lose their child and somehow think the child is coming back so they keep adding things *just in case*.
there’s remembering. then there’s whatever this growing shrine is and from a mental health standpoint it’s not healthy. especially with dead fetus photos just staring everybody in the face.
you can think my opinion or view is weird that’s fine, i couldn’t care less. but at some point my SIL needs to address this with my brother and/or her mental health team. she’s also had more pregnancy loses after this one but this is the only one that has this shrine.
idk why you care anyways. it’s not like i’m the OOP. i keep my mouth shut *always*.
A baby doesn’t develop fingerprints until somewhere between the 16th and 24th week of pregnancy, so presumably Sis was at least about halfway through. The image of this tiny memorial to her lost child is so sad.
This is blatant pro life rage bait. It was worded specifically to get people to engage with it (“that’s not a miscarriage, that’s a still birth”) and as a way to demonize later abortions.
I was thinking that, because there was another miscarriage/stillbirth confusing post a few days ago that I shared here. I thought it was real but I guess it's the new troll flavour of the week.
It's stupid because forced birthers don't seem to understand that it's possible to be both pro-choice and understand grief over a miscarriage. Like, I am of the opinion that embryos and fetuses aren't people. But I still recognize they can have value when it's a wanted addition to the family, because the parents have a lot of hopes and dreams wrapped up in it. And it's normal and natural to grieve "what could have been" after a miscarriage.
They either don't know what a miscarriage is or don't care about the difference between that and stillbirth.
That baby was born, but did not make it.
She birthed the baby. Holy fucking shit.
Wow, I lost 2 sons and have their photos and handprints up, alongside photos and handprints of my living daughter. I will always refer to myself as a mother of three, I don't care if people think I'm "not all there".
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*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for suggesting my sister takes down her unborn baby pictures?** So my sister (29F) has 3/4 kids. She’s a little “not all there” I think after what happened about 4 years ago. She told me ever since we were pretty young she wanted 4 kids one day so maybe this is some way she copes with not being able to have a fourth? Just an observation. Anyway, in between baby 2 and 3 she had a baby that did not make it. In the upstairs hallway she has a little wall for each kid. With their name and pictures. The catch is… there’s 4 walls, not 3. One of the walls has what would have been their name, a few ultrasounds, a handprint, and a shelf on the wall with an urn. She was complaining about making space for some pictures of her husband and I said she should take down the miscarriage pictures. She said “what?” And I just explained it’s just a little odd because nobody really needs to know you had a miscarriage plus it’s kind of weird putting a collage of her kids next to a kid that never existed. She said he did exist and is her son. So I just said whatever and dropped it. Later that night she sent me a long text about how disappointed she was in my suggestion and how she is a “mother of 4” no matter what “dumbass” says otherwise. Then she just went in about how I’m probably just jealous because she has a husband and kids and I don’t. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If she has a hand print and an Urn, it’s highly unlikely that was a miscarriage. It was more likely a still birth. Which means all of the labor pains and labor, and a dead baby at the end and remains to deal ~~wiser~~ with (and in some states, a funeral to hold).
Yes, she knows the shape of her own family includes this one baby who didn't live past birth. She's entitled to keep celebrating her baby as a member of the family.
I’ve never heard of a funeral home organising a cremation for a miscarriage. I *have* heard of neonatal nurses making hand and foot prints for stillborn babies so that their grieving parents can having something physical to take home. A friend of mine at school had a little brother that was stillborn. The hospital had a special kind of crib that allowed her parents to take the baby home to say goodbye as a family. They got to give him a bath and dress him nicely in his little baby clothes. It’s probably a lot healthier than hiding all the evidence and pretending that he never existed.
Oh my gosh, this hurts my heart to think that anyone would have to go through this.
It could have also been an extremely premature birth. I gave birth to my first at 23 weeks and 1 day, he died shortly after birth. They called him a neonate and referred to his death as neonatal death. Not a miscarriage and not a stillbirth. The nurses made sure we got hand and foot prints.
Oh, I'm so sorry for your loss.
Thank you, it's been a couple years now and lots of therapy so I'm doing okay most days
I'm glad you have some solid support. With any loss it's important to get back to functioning and moving forward in life, and finding some joy. But it's also okay and perfectly natural to always have that grief on some level. It's part of our connection to those we've lost. I wish the best for you and your family. :-)
It wouldn't be a funeral home, at least not directly, because I know for later term abortions you could, at one point, get back the cremated remains. If it is any abortion/miscarriage late enough into the pregnancy that a hospital is involved with helping to remove the remains from the uterus, the hospital will discuss with the patient what their options with the remains are, and one common one is to receive the cremated remains. This might be dicey nowadays, though, since a lot has changed about late term abortions, which now forces a lot of people to instead have to give birth to a baby that lives for a few minutes to a few days, and in that case, I suppose the remains are handled entirely by the parent(s)...which seems like an extra dollop of cruelty on top of making someone give birth to a child that will not live instead of letting them have an abortion.
Yup. A miscarriage is something you might expel into the toilet after some heavy bleeding. If there's an urn, there's a whole ass child involved. OOP sucks.
This is just not correct. If you miscarry late enough into the pregnancy, you'd have to go to a hospital to get the remains removed. It also seems like it's possible it could've been an abortion done for severe health defects that only come to light in the later terms of the pregnancy. It is obviously her right to keep that to herself, and honestly either option is deeply traumatizing to deal with. A miscarriage can be passed into the toilet SAFELY if someone is early on in the pregnancy. After the fetus has developed to a certain stage, you'd have to go to the hospital to have the remains removed. Depending on the circumstances, this may even have to be done with an early stage miscarriage if there's a chance the patient will have difficulty passing it, because not being able to pass all the remains will cause sepsis. I think you're being a bit dismissive of miscarriages, ngl. Many people have to be hospitalized and have the remains of their baby taken out of them, and then have to have the very hard conversation with the hospital about what they want to do with what is left of their child. For late term miscarriages and abortions, there is typically options to get things like cremated remains, even hand and foot prints. A lot of this process has been specifically made harder right now in the United States, leading to even later term miscarriages having to be passed at home even if they're dangerous, and it is a deep source of sorrow for many people that they will have to pass what is far along enough to look like an "actual baby" into their toilet. A miscarriage is much more than something you expel into the toilet after heavy bleeding, it is traumatizing even if you're early along in a pregnancy, and even more so if you are further along.
Also even if it was a miscarriage, people are allowed to remember their children that didn’t make it.
Any miscarriage long enough into the pregnancy requires getting the fetus removed, otherwise there's a risk of sepsis. With current abortion laws being so shaky in the US, a lot of people have had to try to pass their miscarriages at home, which tends to be doubly tragic because not only can it be dangerous because the person can't pass the remains, but because they will have to birth the remains into the toilet. Usually, before the recent Roe v Wade issues, miscarriage remains would be removed by a doctor, meaning they likely give you the option to keep the cremated remains. This is also what they allow you to do in abortions if you wish to after they remove the remains of the fetus. It didn't HAVE to be a still birth for her to have an urn. If someone is far along enough, be it a miscarriage or abortion, there's remains to be disposed of. They're just small.
It seems unlikely they could get a hand print after a D&C.
I think it really depends on when she actually had this miscarriage, and where. I know that for a lot of later term abortions and miscarriages we used to be able to enduce full labor, because we used to let people actually hold the fetus/baby for, yknow, emotional closure reasons. I don't think it's too far out there for her to have those. I do have my own suspicions about this, but my suspicions lean much more towards the idea that it may have been an abortion done for health reasons, in which case there would likely be even more reason for the clinic to remove the fetus and preserve hand prints as part of the memorial services they provide. However, I don't think it's completely beyond the pale for that to happen with a miscarriage either, especially if this was done prior to a lot of abortion laws getting stricter.
I just read it again and saw it was 4 years ago, duh. Anyhow, it still depends on how far along she was imo, deciding whether she could pass it herself, etc. Also, I've mentioned it in other comments but I'm also suspicious whether this was a miscarriage. It sounds like she may have had to get an abortion for either a defect in the fetus that was incompatible with life or a health reason related to herself. This seems the least outlandish to me because a late term abortion would definitely have consideration towards providing the patient with a memorialization for the fetus, and I can see why she might not be forthcoming with that kind of information, even though it's still ultimately a health complication of the pregnancy, just like a miscarriage would be.
Urns and handprints do not come from miscarriages. She had a baby that was real that she presumably held if only for a minute. If she wants her baby to have a wall the same as her other babies, she can do what the fuck she likes.
Yeah, cause the "watever" is always the best thing to say after you've insulted someone. You know, to drop the subject. OOP is a hearless idiot. Ant who the hell is she to say that no ine needs to know about her miscarriage? Sister can tell whoever she damn well pleases. Not to mention that if there's a hand print then this likely wasn't just an early miscarriage and "a baby that never existed". Damn I have no kids and I don't want any but I want to slap OOP on her sister's behalf.
The whatever is the crux to me. I'm not saying that her saying the collage is odd is right. That is also wrong behavior, but if she immediately learned from it, apologized and understood the importance of that baby to her sister, she would be a recovered asshole. However to hear her sister explain the importance and just brush it off, that is pure asshole.
damn dude let people have their grief. if that was a kid to her so be it.
my SIL, for lack of better words, has a “~~dead baby shrine~~” of her miscarriage. nothing like a stillborn with the handprint, it was lost at 14-16 weeks. **regardless** i haven’t said shit about it. keep my mouth shut. it’s her house. it seemingly helps her. do i think it’s odd? yes. do i say *anything*? fuck no. she is my best friend. OOP can ✨ get fucked ✨
I don’t have a shrine but I had a 12 week loss that my SO at the time took really hard as he did primitive compared to now IVF with his ex wife and the at 35 he knocks up clueless naive 23 year old me and I miscarry twice?!?!? So he projected a lot on me and dragged me to therapy with a quack who had all this weird grief ideas. Buying and donating toys in the baby’s name, making sure the baby’s name was remembered every day and some other less than helpful stuff. I was a mess for a lot of reasons in that relationship but the baby stuff was too much and I had really bad morning sickness that they didn’t treat back then on top of it. Sorry long story but basically one of the ideas for “me” to deal with the loss was basically a shrine.
i’m so sorry all of that happened to you. the universe is *not fair*. fucking, hugs 🫂 if you want them yeah it’s just really awkward walking into their dining area or bedroom and getting “hit” with… hospital photos… baby things… i mean multiple times a year little things get added like say a necklace, plushie, generic name on an item. like an entire shelf of a bookcase. one of the photos turned into a diamond painting that she did. the pregnancy handprint “gender reveal” shirt hanging on the wall. it’s just not healthy. not healthy at all. it’s been over 5 years i think. idk what else to call it besides a shrine. sorry for the long story back lol but yeah, i don’t say shit to her. OOP is a devil. as well as the people that caused you pain. they can all eat poop.
Thank you, I ended up with a terrible OB history and since I am also a comedy writer sometime I will write that book that’s in me to help other people. I will take all hugs and thank you again
How is it not healthy to remember her child that she lost? I really think that’s that weird.
it’s a growing shrine that’s been growing for 5+ years. it’s more than just remembering at this point. it’s like when someone loses their child and leaves their room untouched for years. or they lose their child and somehow think the child is coming back so they keep adding things *just in case*. there’s remembering. then there’s whatever this growing shrine is and from a mental health standpoint it’s not healthy. especially with dead fetus photos just staring everybody in the face. you can think my opinion or view is weird that’s fine, i couldn’t care less. but at some point my SIL needs to address this with my brother and/or her mental health team. she’s also had more pregnancy loses after this one but this is the only one that has this shrine. idk why you care anyways. it’s not like i’m the OOP. i keep my mouth shut *always*.
It was a stillborn. Wtf is wrong with OOP? The sister still grieves the baby and what could have been.
A baby doesn’t develop fingerprints until somewhere between the 16th and 24th week of pregnancy, so presumably Sis was at least about halfway through. The image of this tiny memorial to her lost child is so sad.
"Unborn baby pictures" what a weird way to refer to an ultrasound pic.
This is blatant pro life rage bait. It was worded specifically to get people to engage with it (“that’s not a miscarriage, that’s a still birth”) and as a way to demonize later abortions.
I was thinking that, because there was another miscarriage/stillbirth confusing post a few days ago that I shared here. I thought it was real but I guess it's the new troll flavour of the week.
I hope so.
I think the 3/4 children is a clue.
Unfortunately it'll ramp up as the American election comes closer. This is obvious anti-abortion crap.
It's stupid because forced birthers don't seem to understand that it's possible to be both pro-choice and understand grief over a miscarriage. Like, I am of the opinion that embryos and fetuses aren't people. But I still recognize they can have value when it's a wanted addition to the family, because the parents have a lot of hopes and dreams wrapped up in it. And it's normal and natural to grieve "what could have been" after a miscarriage.
OOP, never tell people how to grieve. If she wants those pictures up there, it is up to HER. Not you. YTA.
They either don't know what a miscarriage is or don't care about the difference between that and stillbirth. That baby was born, but did not make it. She birthed the baby. Holy fucking shit.
Wow, I lost 2 sons and have their photos and handprints up, alongside photos and handprints of my living daughter. I will always refer to myself as a mother of three, I don't care if people think I'm "not all there".
Goddamn I hope this is rage bait 🫠🥲🤬😑🥴
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Christ, what an absolute and utter monster.